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[00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:16.080] It is Thursday, the 28th of August, 2025, and you're listening to Skeptics with a K, the podcast for science, reason, and critical thinking.
[00:01:16.080 --> 00:01:26.640] Skeptics with a K is produced by Skeptic Media in association with the Merseyside Skeptic Society, a non-profit organization for the promotion of scientific skepticism on Merseyside around the UK and internationally.
[00:01:26.640 --> 00:01:28.000] I'm your host, Mike Hall.
[00:01:28.000 --> 00:01:29.440] With me today is Marsh.
[00:01:29.440 --> 00:01:29.920] Hello.
[00:01:29.920 --> 00:01:30.800] And Alice.
[00:01:30.800 --> 00:01:31.680] Hello.
[00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:37.120] So, a few episodes ago, we briefly touched on the fact that I've been to see Superman.
[00:01:37.760 --> 00:01:38.640] Yes, we'd mentioned that.
[00:01:38.640 --> 00:01:39.440] I've still not seen it.
[00:01:39.440 --> 00:01:40.160] I probably won't.
[00:01:40.560 --> 00:01:41.120] I might.
[00:01:41.120 --> 00:01:41.840] I might not.
[00:01:41.840 --> 00:01:43.040] I really enjoyed Superman.
[00:01:43.040 --> 00:01:46.800] I've not been a terrific fan of the recent slate of DC movies.
[00:01:46.800 --> 00:01:48.320] They've all been very fucking po-faced.
[00:01:48.800 --> 00:01:52.960] Are you a big fan of the 90s Superman becoming an ice agent?
[00:01:52.960 --> 00:01:55.600] No, although we might touch on him a little bit later.
[00:01:55.600 --> 00:01:56.000] Okay.
[00:01:56.400 --> 00:01:58.560] You and I went to see Fantastic Four.
[00:01:58.560 --> 00:01:59.440] We did go and see Fantastic Four.
[00:01:59.440 --> 00:02:04.600] I've not been to see Fantastic Four yet, and I'm annoyed because I want to see that more than I wanted to see Superman.
[00:01:59.680 --> 00:02:06.280] I've just been too busy to go see Fantastic.
[00:02:06.760 --> 00:02:08.200] I'm very excited for Tapa.
[00:02:08.760 --> 00:02:09.560] It's enjoyable.
[00:02:09.560 --> 00:02:11.640] It's all very like, I just like all the deck.
[00:02:11.960 --> 00:02:12.920] I like all the decors.
[00:02:12.920 --> 00:02:15.160] I know Retro in 60s and kind of the thing with the microphone.
[00:02:15.720 --> 00:02:17.800] While we watch it going, like, oh, I love that lamp.
[00:02:19.400 --> 00:02:22.280] It was basically an IKEA catalogue to you.
[00:02:22.280 --> 00:02:29.160] But I really enjoyed Superman, and it was fun, and it was fun in a way that Superman kind of hasn't been in live action for a few decades.
[00:02:29.160 --> 00:02:31.800] You know, I'm not really a DC comics person.
[00:02:31.800 --> 00:02:35.560] I think, much like you, Marshall, I always found Marvel more accessible and engaging.
[00:02:35.560 --> 00:02:36.520] More interesting, yeah.
[00:02:36.520 --> 00:02:41.400] Superman wasn't really that interesting to me, nor was Batman, to be honest.
[00:02:41.400 --> 00:02:43.080] No, and those are their only two characters.
[00:02:43.080 --> 00:02:45.080] Yeah, I'd be hard-pressed to name Masspoke.
[00:02:45.080 --> 00:02:45.720] Wonder Woman.
[00:02:45.720 --> 00:02:47.000] Yeah, Green Lantern.
[00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:47.560] Green Lantern.
[00:02:48.840 --> 00:02:49.480] That's it.
[00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:50.280] That I'm out.
[00:02:50.280 --> 00:02:51.640] The annual green arrow.
[00:02:51.640 --> 00:02:55.160] Was there not a film recently that was like five of them all together?
[00:02:55.160 --> 00:02:56.920] Yeah, and even people who saw it can't name it.
[00:02:57.000 --> 00:02:58.360] Aquaman, Aquaman's a DC.
[00:02:58.440 --> 00:02:59.000] I went to see it.
[00:02:59.000 --> 00:02:59.720] I went to see it.
[00:02:59.720 --> 00:03:00.600] Oh, you went to see it?
[00:03:00.600 --> 00:03:01.080] I've no idea.
[00:03:01.320 --> 00:03:02.760] Cyborg.
[00:03:02.760 --> 00:03:03.720] I think there's a Cyborg.
[00:03:04.760 --> 00:03:06.920] I don't know if he's a comics character original to the film.
[00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:08.200] No, I think he's a comic character.
[00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:09.800] I think he's in the Justice League.
[00:03:09.800 --> 00:03:10.280] Yeah.
[00:03:10.600 --> 00:03:12.600] But yeah, I mean, it doesn't matter right now.
[00:03:12.600 --> 00:03:17.320] But I should warn you both, and indeed listeners at home, that there will be spoilers for Superman in this story.
[00:03:17.480 --> 00:03:20.680] If you're going to tell us he's Clark Kent, we're already across that.
[00:03:20.680 --> 00:03:21.880] We already know that.
[00:03:22.200 --> 00:03:29.720] So I'm going all in on Superman today because I watched Ben Shapiro's review of Superman.
[00:03:29.720 --> 00:03:30.200] Okay.
[00:03:30.760 --> 00:03:32.360] Which he put up on his YouTube channel.
[00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:33.800] Why would you do that to yourself?
[00:03:33.800 --> 00:03:36.120] Yeah, I don't think we've ever mentioned Ben Shapiro on this show.
[00:03:36.520 --> 00:03:37.080] I don't think we have.
[00:03:37.480 --> 00:03:40.440] I think it's because it's too low-hanging fruit, isn't it?
[00:03:40.760 --> 00:03:42.760] Not in any depth, certainly.
[00:03:42.760 --> 00:03:48.640] So, Ben Shapiro did a review of the new Superman film, and in fairness, he says the movie was fun.
[00:03:44.920 --> 00:03:52.080] He says that his wife enjoyed it, which is good.
[00:03:52.240 --> 00:03:53.360] That's probably the only enjoyment she gets.
[00:03:53.760 --> 00:03:57.360] He's exactly the person.
[00:03:57.360 --> 00:04:00.480] He's exactly the person who knows how to tell when his wife's enjoying something.
[00:04:00.480 --> 00:04:02.960] Yeah, yeah, you can tell.
[00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:09.040] Anyway, he said his wife thought it was fun, and he knows other people have said the movie was fun, and I agree.
[00:04:09.040 --> 00:04:09.840] I thought the movie was fun.
[00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:12.080] But Ben Shapiro does not agree.
[00:04:12.160 --> 00:04:15.360] He says the movie is not Superman, it's Super Meh.
[00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:18.400] Okay, but oh, sorry, his wife said it was fun, but he doesn't think it's fun.
[00:04:19.520 --> 00:04:22.160] He thinks it's not fun, but he's more analytical about things than she is.
[00:04:23.360 --> 00:04:24.640] Well, he's paid to be.
[00:04:24.640 --> 00:04:27.760] And he goes into why he thinks this film is super meh.
[00:04:27.760 --> 00:04:29.360] Is it because he's paid to?
[00:04:30.320 --> 00:04:35.520] If you asked me what I thought of a film and I thought it was meh, I would tell you I thought it was meh, and I've probably done that on this show.
[00:04:35.520 --> 00:04:35.920] Yeah.
[00:04:35.920 --> 00:04:37.680] But I wouldn't write a whole review about it.
[00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:39.840] No, I've got a 20-minute YouTube video about it.
[00:04:39.840 --> 00:04:40.720] No, you wouldn't do that.
[00:04:41.280 --> 00:04:42.000] It wasn't for me.
[00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:42.560] That's fine.
[00:04:42.560 --> 00:04:44.720] Other people can enjoy things that I don't enjoy.
[00:04:44.720 --> 00:04:51.040] But you aren't set up as a psyop by rich, right-wing industrialists as a propaganda tool.
[00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:55.040] If you were, even if you thought the film wasn't meh, you'd say it was meh.
[00:04:55.360 --> 00:04:58.480] Now, I have to be fair and transparent up, not to Ben.
[00:04:58.560 --> 00:04:59.760] I'm certainly not going to give you that.
[00:04:59.760 --> 00:05:14.480] I have to be fair and transparent in other circumstances here because underneath Ben Shapiro's video was a link to another video, and this video was titled, I fact-checked Ben Shapiro's Superman Review, which was by a YouTuber called NerdSync.
[00:05:14.480 --> 00:05:14.960] Okay.
[00:05:14.960 --> 00:05:19.280] And I'm going to link his video in the show notes because effectively what I'm doing here is stealing his bit.
[00:05:19.280 --> 00:05:19.840] Lovely.
[00:05:20.080 --> 00:05:21.360] It's not his bit.
[00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:22.800] This is my review.
[00:05:22.800 --> 00:05:25.600] But obviously, there is going to be some crossover in.
[00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:27.680] If there's facts that are wrong, you're both going to spot the film.
[00:05:27.840 --> 00:05:29.600] We're both going to spot the same facts that are wrong.
[00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:32.920] I do like that you can fact-check someone's review of a film.
[00:05:29.760 --> 00:05:36.280] Because a review is often like, oh, yeah, it was good and I enjoyed this pete.
[00:05:29.840 --> 00:05:37.080] Eh, fact-check.
[00:05:37.160 --> 00:05:38.120] No, you didn't.
[00:05:38.120 --> 00:05:42.920] Nerdsink almost certainly is going to have done a better job of this than I am because he seems to be a proper comics guy.
[00:05:42.920 --> 00:05:45.000] I've since watched his video review.
[00:05:45.000 --> 00:05:45.320] Okay.
[00:05:45.400 --> 00:05:47.640] He seems to be a proper comic guy, knows his stuff.
[00:05:47.640 --> 00:05:49.560] He could probably name like six DC characters.
[00:05:49.800 --> 00:05:50.600] He probably could.
[00:05:50.600 --> 00:05:53.000] Not including Harlequin, which was invented for the cartoon.
[00:05:53.080 --> 00:05:53.800] It was the cartoon anyway.
[00:05:55.560 --> 00:06:01.320] So that said, these are my comments about Shapiro's review without reference to Nerd Sync's comments about it.
[00:06:01.320 --> 00:06:05.000] But there might be overlap because, of course, we're responding to the same stuff.
[00:06:05.320 --> 00:06:09.640] Anyway, I wanted to be upfront about that because, you know, Nerd Sync did beat me to the point on this.
[00:06:09.800 --> 00:06:11.800] SYNC or S-I-N-K?
[00:06:11.960 --> 00:06:13.800] S-Y-N-I-S-N-Synchronize.
[00:06:13.800 --> 00:06:15.240] Okay, not as in, like, low.
[00:06:15.320 --> 00:06:16.440] You can know yourself.
[00:06:16.440 --> 00:06:16.920] Yeah.
[00:06:17.480 --> 00:06:20.120] Not as in a place to pour wastewater.
[00:06:20.120 --> 00:06:20.440] Yeah.
[00:06:20.440 --> 00:06:21.160] Right, okay.
[00:06:21.480 --> 00:06:28.920] Or the little thing you do to make the wood around the top of the screw wider so that the screw lies flush within the woods.
[00:06:30.040 --> 00:06:30.280] Yeah.
[00:06:30.280 --> 00:06:32.840] Not the massive holes that sometimes appear in the middle of the street.
[00:06:33.320 --> 00:06:34.200] Not those either.
[00:06:34.200 --> 00:06:34.760] No.
[00:06:35.080 --> 00:06:36.520] I'll start with the good stuff up front.
[00:06:36.520 --> 00:06:40.200] So Shapiro acknowledges that the cast is good.
[00:06:40.200 --> 00:06:41.240] Okay, who's in it?
[00:06:41.640 --> 00:06:42.520] I know nothing about this.
[00:06:42.680 --> 00:06:45.320] Superman is played by Michael David Cornsweat.
[00:06:45.400 --> 00:06:46.280] Don't know who that is.
[00:06:46.520 --> 00:06:47.800] He's not done anything else.
[00:06:47.800 --> 00:06:48.200] Okay.
[00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:51.640] Is that Rachel Brosnahan from Mrs.
[00:06:51.640 --> 00:06:54.040] Mazel, who is playing Lois Lane?
[00:06:54.280 --> 00:06:54.840] Okay.
[00:06:54.840 --> 00:06:58.120] You've also got Nicholas Holt playing Lickluther.
[00:06:58.280 --> 00:06:58.440] Yeah.
[00:06:58.440 --> 00:07:00.200] Nicholas Holt, you'd know him from Skins.
[00:07:00.680 --> 00:07:02.840] I never watched Skinners, but I think I know Nicholas Holt.
[00:07:02.920 --> 00:07:05.720] He was in the Dracula film.
[00:07:05.720 --> 00:07:07.000] Did you watch the Dracula film?
[00:07:07.160 --> 00:07:07.560] I did, yeah.
[00:07:07.560 --> 00:07:08.360] Nosferratu.
[00:07:08.360 --> 00:07:09.080] Nosferratu.
[00:07:09.080 --> 00:07:09.560] He was the guy.
[00:07:09.880 --> 00:07:10.840] He played.
[00:07:10.840 --> 00:07:12.960] I want to say John Harkness, but it wasn't John the Hartako.
[00:07:13.040 --> 00:07:16.320] John is terrible with names, particularly of actors.
[00:07:16.320 --> 00:07:17.040] It was him anyway.
[00:07:17.040 --> 00:07:17.760] Yeah, I know him.
[00:07:17.760 --> 00:07:18.000] Yeah, yeah.
[00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:18.640] I know him.
[00:07:12.920 --> 00:07:19.680] It's who I was thinking of.
[00:07:19.840 --> 00:07:21.440] Yeah, he's an X-Men first class.
[00:07:21.440 --> 00:07:22.000] Yeah.
[00:07:22.320 --> 00:07:24.000] And Days of Futures Pass?
[00:07:24.160 --> 00:07:24.720] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:26.640] Yeah.
[00:07:27.280 --> 00:07:29.040] Where he's got a big scene with his feet.
[00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:30.400] There's a big foot scene in it.
[00:07:30.400 --> 00:07:30.800] It's good.
[00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:34.560] Not even a Tarantino film, but somehow a big foot scene in it.
[00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:36.000] So Shapiro acknowledges...
[00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:36.720] A big foot scene.
[00:07:36.880 --> 00:07:38.000] Not a big foot scene.
[00:07:38.800 --> 00:07:40.400] Although, maybe.
[00:07:40.400 --> 00:07:45.840] Although Sasquatch was a character in the Marvel universe, so they could have turned up.
[00:07:45.840 --> 00:07:47.440] So Shapiro says the cast is good.
[00:07:47.440 --> 00:07:59.600] He is also critical of other commentators, both left and right, who say that the movie is a thinly disguised commentary on Russia-Ukraine or Israel-Palestine on those conflicts.
[00:07:59.600 --> 00:08:02.400] So there's a lot of people on both sides of the equation.
[00:08:02.400 --> 00:08:08.640] On the right, they're saying, well, it's obviously about Israel and Palestine, and it's dreadful and woke.
[00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:12.880] He is dismissive of this being a politically motivated film.
[00:08:12.880 --> 00:08:14.560] He says, no, there's nothing of that.
[00:08:14.560 --> 00:08:16.080] It's just a film.
[00:08:16.400 --> 00:08:24.240] So he acknowledges that overall people think the movie is fun, but thinks that he is more analytical than this because he has deeper insights.
[00:08:24.240 --> 00:08:31.440] And his deeper insights rather expose how much he absolutely doesn't know about Superman.
[00:08:31.760 --> 00:08:43.040] So he says, my overall problem with the movie is that you're taking the most iconic American IP of all time, Superman, which is to be treated with a certain level of respect.
[00:08:43.040 --> 00:08:47.600] And that doesn't mean it needs to be some grand mythology, the way Zack Snyder wants to do it.
[00:08:47.600 --> 00:08:50.000] My standard for Superman is not Man of Steel.
[00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:55.520] My standard for Superman is 1978 Richard Donner, the best version of Superman.
[00:08:55.520 --> 00:08:56.480] So let's start with this one.
[00:08:56.480 --> 00:09:01.640] So, as we talked about a few episodes ago, 1978 Superman is the Christopher Eve Superman.
[00:08:59.440 --> 00:09:06.040] It's something, and that version of Superman is a bit of a weird anachronism.
[00:09:06.600 --> 00:09:13.640] So, Superman was first introduced in the comics in Action Comic Issue One in 1938.
[00:09:14.120 --> 00:09:17.240] I have never seen any Superman content ever.
[00:09:17.240 --> 00:09:18.680] I've never seen any of the films.
[00:09:18.680 --> 00:09:20.920] I've never seen any of the various TV shows that are like.
[00:09:20.920 --> 00:09:22.120] I've never watched Lois and Clark.
[00:09:22.120 --> 00:09:22.280] Nope.
[00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:23.960] The new adventures of Lois and Clark.
[00:09:23.960 --> 00:09:24.920] I've never watched what's that?
[00:09:25.960 --> 00:09:26.760] I've never watched Smallville.
[00:09:26.920 --> 00:09:27.640] Normal Smallville.
[00:09:27.640 --> 00:09:28.680] I've not watched Smallville.
[00:09:28.680 --> 00:09:29.240] No.
[00:09:29.720 --> 00:09:30.760] I never watched Superman.
[00:09:30.840 --> 00:09:34.280] I'm completely watching Smallville makes you complicit in a sex crime these days.
[00:09:35.240 --> 00:09:38.520] I've never watched anything that Superman is in ever.
[00:09:38.840 --> 00:09:40.600] You just got no interest in Superman.
[00:09:40.760 --> 00:09:41.960] It's just never come up.
[00:09:41.960 --> 00:09:45.800] I mean, you also got no interest in film, which just really helps.
[00:09:46.920 --> 00:09:51.320] I've never been thinking about watching a film when Superman has at any point crossed my mind.
[00:09:51.560 --> 00:09:57.240] You're just too young for it because the thing is, the Christopher Eve Superman, not the 78, because I was too young for 78, but it was huge.
[00:09:57.560 --> 00:10:00.680] But a few years after it came out, that's when it was on the television as well.
[00:10:00.680 --> 00:10:05.320] So I remember the whole big deal of how they do him in the flying scenes.
[00:10:05.400 --> 00:10:08.200] Oh, a green screen, a blue screen, or whatever it was.
[00:10:08.200 --> 00:10:08.760] That's amazing.
[00:10:08.760 --> 00:10:09.640] They could do the flying.
[00:10:09.960 --> 00:10:10.440] So like.
[00:10:10.840 --> 00:10:15.000] You believe a man can fly the whole, but it was a huge deal at the time.
[00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:18.280] And Superman things that have been big deals.
[00:10:18.280 --> 00:10:28.840] No, but Superman has never been as big a deal because I think the Christopher Eve Superman was at a time when special effects could just about get away with making him look like he was actually flying for the first time.
[00:10:28.840 --> 00:10:31.320] Anything before that definitely didn't look like he was flying.
[00:10:31.560 --> 00:10:34.840] We would not be where we are now with comic book movies if it wasn't for that film.
[00:10:34.840 --> 00:10:35.000] Yeah.
[00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:36.360] And everything after that.
[00:10:36.360 --> 00:10:38.360] Well, yeah, obviously, you can make it look like he's flying.
[00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:39.080] Superman did it.
[00:10:39.080 --> 00:10:45.600] So I think that that moment made Superman as a figure much bigger internationally than the character would have been just in the from the comics.
[00:10:44.840 --> 00:10:49.120] And if you've just not got the interest in Superman, then you haven't.
[00:10:49.280 --> 00:10:51.680] It's going to make it a painful half hour for you, to be honest.
[00:10:52.800 --> 00:10:56.560] Well, I've never watched Jaws because, you know, there's been shark stuff on telly, and I've not been that interested.
[00:10:56.720 --> 00:10:58.240] Yeah, but Jaws was massive.
[00:10:58.240 --> 00:10:59.200] I've never watched Jaws.
[00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:01.680] Oh, my God.
[00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:04.080] But Jaws was a massive thing.
[00:11:04.080 --> 00:11:08.560] I would be surprised, and indeed, I am surprised that you didn't watch Lois and Clark, for example.
[00:11:08.560 --> 00:11:13.680] Although when that was big on Telemachus, that was the mid-90s, you might be a little bit young for it.
[00:11:13.680 --> 00:11:15.280] I wouldn't have watched it had it not been that.
[00:11:15.440 --> 00:11:18.320] I wouldn't have watched any of it had the films not been that big.
[00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:23.040] But anyway, Superman first appeared in comics 1938.
[00:11:23.040 --> 00:11:28.640] And in the original comic, his powers were much more limited than the powers that we are used to Superman having now.
[00:11:28.640 --> 00:11:29.280] And it's worth pointing out.
[00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:31.520] He doesn't have that many powers now, though, does he?
[00:11:31.520 --> 00:11:32.720] God, everything.
[00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:33.280] Oh, okay.
[00:11:33.280 --> 00:11:36.000] He's bulletproof, fast in a speed and bullet.
[00:11:36.000 --> 00:11:39.280] He can't laser vision and blowy, blowy cold.
[00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:40.640] Although he's just flying and strong.
[00:11:40.640 --> 00:11:42.000] He can turn back time.
[00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:44.000] Flying and strong as most of it.
[00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:45.600] But Marsh, you're getting carried away.
[00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:49.760] But 1938, I was going to say Superman comes along 1938.
[00:11:49.760 --> 00:11:54.240] 1939, Ubermensch and the rise of the Nazis.
[00:11:54.560 --> 00:11:55.440] Related.
[00:11:55.440 --> 00:11:56.720] Just going to say.
[00:11:57.040 --> 00:12:03.200] So, Superman in the original comic, he is portrayed as strong because, like, on the front cover of Action Comics 1, he's lifting a car up above his head.
[00:12:03.520 --> 00:12:05.680] Is that one-handed, or are you just holding your phone with the other hand?
[00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:06.400] Two hands.
[00:12:06.400 --> 00:12:09.680] Two hands to lift up a car.
[00:12:09.680 --> 00:12:10.960] He's fast.
[00:12:10.960 --> 00:12:13.360] He's resilient, so bullets will bounce off him.
[00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:14.800] He's faster than speeding bullets.
[00:12:14.800 --> 00:12:21.360] But he could be injured by a big enough, like a mortar shell would injure him, for example, but a bullet wouldn't.
[00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:23.200] So he wasn't impervious to harm.
[00:12:23.200 --> 00:12:26.880] He could just, you know, but he was impervious to bullets, for example.
[00:12:26.880 --> 00:12:29.120] And rather than flying, he was just able to jump.
[00:12:29.360 --> 00:12:31.160] Yeah, he could leap over a building.
[00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:32.520] Tall building in a single bound.
[00:12:32.520 --> 00:12:33.080] That was the claim.
[00:12:33.080 --> 00:12:33.880] That's where that comes from.
[00:12:29.840 --> 00:12:35.560] The famous cat horn.
[00:12:37.160 --> 00:12:40.440] The famous faster than speeding bullet, more powerful than locomotive stuff.
[00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:42.760] That, you know, originally, Superman couldn't fly.
[00:12:43.240 --> 00:12:44.760] Up there with, is it a bird?
[00:12:44.760 --> 00:12:45.640] Like, look up there.
[00:12:45.640 --> 00:12:46.440] Is it a bird?
[00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:47.400] Is it a plane?
[00:12:47.400 --> 00:12:48.280] No, it's Superman.
[00:12:48.280 --> 00:12:51.240] Like, right, because only the third one of those is interesting.
[00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:51.640] Yeah.
[00:12:51.640 --> 00:12:55.400] If it was a bird, I don't think everyone in the city would be like, look up there.
[00:12:55.400 --> 00:12:56.360] Is it a bird?
[00:12:56.680 --> 00:12:58.440] You just yapped it.
[00:12:58.760 --> 00:12:59.960] Yeah, it is.
[00:13:00.600 --> 00:13:02.600] Well, they're wasting all of our time.
[00:13:02.600 --> 00:13:06.360] It's a pigeon in New York/slash Metropolis.
[00:13:06.360 --> 00:13:07.400] Actually, it's not New York, is it?
[00:13:07.400 --> 00:13:08.840] I forget where it's meant to be.
[00:13:09.400 --> 00:13:10.120] It's Metropolis.
[00:13:10.200 --> 00:13:11.080] Yeah, it's Metropolis.
[00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:11.560] Yeah.
[00:13:11.560 --> 00:13:19.240] But over the course of the subsequent decades, writers just added in new powers for him, like willy-nilly, depending on what MacGuffin.
[00:13:20.760 --> 00:13:21.640] He was.
[00:13:22.280 --> 00:13:26.200] Just depending on what MacGuffin they needed to solve the plot that week, right?
[00:13:26.200 --> 00:13:30.760] So his powers became more and more extreme over the run of the comics.
[00:13:30.760 --> 00:13:35.320] So by the mid-70s, Superman's powers were absolutely absurd.
[00:13:35.320 --> 00:13:35.880] Yeah.
[00:13:35.880 --> 00:13:44.920] Other than very comic book feats, like he could push planets or he's an alien, alien from the planet Krypton.
[00:13:44.920 --> 00:13:46.040] Yeah, I think I didn't know that.
[00:13:46.040 --> 00:13:46.600] Yeah.
[00:13:46.600 --> 00:13:50.360] So he can push planets out of their orbits, like he can just push them and move them.
[00:13:50.360 --> 00:13:55.000] In one comic, he blows out a star, just blows the star out.
[00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:59.320] It's weird that he's such like an American good guy for saying he's an alien.
[00:13:59.560 --> 00:14:01.000] They don't usually like that, do they?
[00:14:01.000 --> 00:14:03.640] Welcome to Ben Shapiro's problem here.
[00:14:03.960 --> 00:14:04.760] Strap in.
[00:14:05.080 --> 00:14:06.680] You get where Mike's going.
[00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:10.760] So, yeah, there's the kind of classic comic book stuff of like, because Hulk could do that.
[00:14:10.760 --> 00:14:11.960] There's like World Breaker Hulk.
[00:14:11.960 --> 00:14:14.120] Hulk has punched the ground and cracked a planet in two.
[00:14:14.120 --> 00:14:15.000] That happens, right?
[00:14:15.280 --> 00:14:18.240] So, kind of, he can blow a star out, he can push a planet, that happens.
[00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:20.640] But there's even more weird powers than that.
[00:14:20.640 --> 00:14:30.160] One version of Superman, I think, from the 60s can shoot a little miniature Superman out of his hands that can then go off and be autonomous and do its own thing.
[00:14:30.160 --> 00:14:31.920] Like the new Falcon thing.
[00:14:32.400 --> 00:14:35.920] Falcon's got a little drone now that he can send off in the comics.
[00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:40.800] He's Captain America, but in the comics Falcon, it's not a little drone, it's an actual film.
[00:14:40.880 --> 00:14:41.520] It's an actual bird.
[00:14:43.040 --> 00:14:44.960] That's a bit too weird for the films.
[00:14:44.960 --> 00:14:45.520] We're going to make it.
[00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:46.560] Look up in the sky.
[00:14:46.560 --> 00:14:47.440] It's a bird.
[00:14:47.520 --> 00:14:48.720] It's a bird.
[00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:56.240] By the time of the 70s, a Superman could withstand a nuclear blast, never mind a bullet, you know, stuff like that.
[00:14:56.240 --> 00:14:58.240] And this just made for bad stories, right?
[00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:03.040] Because when your central character is that powerful, it's really hard to get any jeopardy into a story.
[00:15:03.040 --> 00:15:04.880] That's why I've never given a shit about Superman.
[00:15:04.880 --> 00:15:05.120] Yeah.
[00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:07.040] Although it was massive at the time.
[00:15:07.040 --> 00:15:08.480] And I did watch it.
[00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:11.040] Like, once I was past the age of about eight.
[00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:12.480] Yeah.
[00:15:12.480 --> 00:15:12.880] Yeah.
[00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:14.480] And it was this version.
[00:15:14.560 --> 00:15:17.600] It's only so long you can wear your coat with your hood on your head, so you've got to catch it.
[00:15:19.280 --> 00:15:20.800] Yeah, I think we all did that one.
[00:15:20.800 --> 00:15:26.800] But it was this version of Superman, this crazy, overpowered version of Superman, that the 1978 film was based on.
[00:15:26.800 --> 00:15:30.480] So he's got these over-the-top powers in the film.
[00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:34.000] So he's got a super kiss, which can erase your memory.
[00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:34.720] Oh, yeah.
[00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:36.080] Like he kisses Lois Lane.
[00:15:36.160 --> 00:15:37.200] He's a roofie kiss.
[00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:37.680] Yeah.
[00:15:38.560 --> 00:15:39.360] Basically.
[00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:41.280] And erases her memory.
[00:15:41.280 --> 00:15:46.160] He can split into multiple copies of himself, which he does in Superman 2 in the Fortress of Solitude.
[00:15:46.160 --> 00:15:47.280] He just kind of disappears.
[00:15:47.280 --> 00:15:50.080] And like four of him appear when he's trying to confuse General Zong.
[00:15:50.080 --> 00:15:51.280] Yeah, that Spider-Man meme.
[00:15:51.280 --> 00:15:52.320] Like the Spider-Man meme.
[00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:53.360] Yep, absolutely.
[00:15:53.360 --> 00:15:57.600] He rebuilds the Great Wall of China in Superman 4 by looking at it.
[00:15:57.600 --> 00:16:04.040] He just looks at it and a blue beam comes out of his eyes and it just assembles itself like he's got some sort of weird telekinesis thing.
[00:16:04.920 --> 00:16:10.520] And there's this bit in Superman 2 where he's got a weird cellophane version of the logo on his chest that he throws it.
[00:16:10.600 --> 00:16:11.480] Tony control it.
[00:16:11.480 --> 00:16:12.280] Yeah, yeah.
[00:16:12.280 --> 00:16:17.960] And they get tangled in it for a couple of minutes and they go, oh, that was annoying.
[00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:24.040] We've also missed that he turned, you can turn the planet backwards on its orbit and turn back time in doing so.
[00:16:24.040 --> 00:16:28.760] So he flies around the earth so fast that the earth starts to spin backwards and time goes backwards.
[00:16:28.760 --> 00:16:30.600] Yes, and downwards.
[00:16:31.080 --> 00:16:35.960] The reason I missed that out is because I think that's a widely misinterpreted scene along those lines.
[00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:39.800] I think the point is that Superman is flying faster than light himself.
[00:16:39.800 --> 00:16:44.920] Oh, so he's turning time backwards and so the planet looks like it's going to be just actually time going backwards.
[00:16:45.080 --> 00:16:46.760] That's what I think, which is why I skipped that out.
[00:16:47.480 --> 00:16:49.160] Or maybe they're just that mad.
[00:16:49.480 --> 00:16:50.200] I don't know.
[00:16:50.200 --> 00:16:51.480] I don't know.
[00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:59.080] So when DC's comics rebooted Superman in the 1980s, they scaled back on a lot of this stuff and they made Superman much more vulnerable.
[00:16:59.320 --> 00:17:01.000] Crisis on Infinite Earth, was that the name of it?
[00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:02.440] It was Crisis on Infinite Earth.
[00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:03.320] They did it.
[00:17:03.560 --> 00:17:04.520] It's a title that I know.
[00:17:04.520 --> 00:17:06.440] I've never read a single Superman thing.
[00:17:06.440 --> 00:17:08.120] I just know that's a thing that happened.
[00:17:08.120 --> 00:17:13.960] They kind of rebooted the multiverse at that point and reset Superman in a comic written by a guy called John Byrne.
[00:17:13.960 --> 00:17:18.840] It was a comic called Man of Steel, which rebooted Superman and stripped back on a lot of this stuff.
[00:17:18.840 --> 00:17:24.520] So he was much more vulnerable, which made it easier to get Jeopardy into your story, right?
[00:17:24.520 --> 00:17:27.880] But movie Superman was still stuck in the 70s.
[00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:30.120] Movie Superman was still the 70s version.
[00:17:30.120 --> 00:17:34.520] And that version of Superman is the Superman that Ben Shapiro thinks is the archetype.
[00:17:34.840 --> 00:17:37.240] He thinks that is the definitive Superman.
[00:17:37.240 --> 00:17:45.920] When actually that version of Superman that Ben Shapiro is interested in was already recognized as not being great by the time the film was being made.
[00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:50.560] The comics writers were already going, this is a fucking hard work, this, when they were making that film.
[00:17:44.600 --> 00:17:56.480] It's like arguing that the definitive version of Spider-Man is the Toby Maguire one where the webs come out of his wrists.
[00:17:56.480 --> 00:17:56.640] Yes.
[00:17:56.720 --> 00:17:57.920] Because, you know, it's Spider-Man.
[00:17:57.920 --> 00:17:59.040] The webs come out of his wrists.
[00:17:59.200 --> 00:17:59.520] Right.
[00:17:59.520 --> 00:18:01.680] Only for a very short time in the comics that this happened.
[00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:04.240] It just happened to be the most famous version.
[00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:06.960] But this is Shapiro's understanding of what Superman should be like.
[00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:11.760] And much of his review is coloured by this very narrow view that he has of the character.
[00:18:11.760 --> 00:18:24.160] He says, quote, there are character problems, and all of it is just wrapped around this fast-paced, jokey tone, which doesn't mesh with Superman as a central part of Americana.
[00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:25.280] Why can't...
[00:18:25.840 --> 00:18:26.960] See, that is just...
[00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:31.200] That's a man who has heard the word Americana but not fully understood it.
[00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:38.480] Because to say that, oh, you can't have a jokey, light tone in Americana is fucking ridiculous.
[00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:39.920] It is ridiculous, yeah.
[00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:44.400] It also tells me that Ben Shapiro's got no idea how fucking weird Superman is in the comics.
[00:18:44.800 --> 00:18:49.680] The character and the stories and the world he lives in in the comics is just bananas.
[00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:53.840] Comic Superman has to deal with interdimensional tricksters like Mr.
[00:18:53.840 --> 00:18:58.000] Mixix Piddlick, who casually rewrites reality just for fun.
[00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:01.360] You send him back by seeing his name backwards or something, don't you?
[00:19:01.360 --> 00:19:01.840] I don't know.
[00:19:01.840 --> 00:19:02.320] Don't know.
[00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:04.640] I believe that's how you get rid of Mixix Pidlick.
[00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:06.160] He has to deal with bizarro words.
[00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:07.600] That was just a collection of sounds.
[00:19:07.600 --> 00:19:08.320] That wasn't a word.
[00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:10.480] Well, that's what makes it so difficult to say his name backwards.
[00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:11.600] Mixix Piccolik?
[00:19:11.600 --> 00:19:12.080] Yeah, exactly.
[00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:13.360] With Mixix Piddlick.
[00:19:13.360 --> 00:19:14.000] Mixix Piclick.
[00:19:14.080 --> 00:19:15.520] It's got no fucking vowels in it.
[00:19:15.520 --> 00:19:18.480] It's M-X-Y-Z-P-T-L-K.
[00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:21.680] That's going to be a classic, like, late 70s, early 80s kind of character, isn't it?
[00:19:21.760 --> 00:19:22.720] When everything just went fucking.
[00:19:22.800 --> 00:19:24.240] And he's got a little hat on, Mr.
[00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:25.840] Mixixis Piddlick, and things like that.
[00:19:25.840 --> 00:19:27.920] I was going to Google him, then I thought, how?
[00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:28.480] How?
[00:19:30.280 --> 00:19:37.800] Superman also has to deal with Bizarro World, which is an alternative dimension where everything is backwards and Earth is a cube and good is bad and bad is good.
[00:19:38.120 --> 00:19:39.400] I've heard of Bizarro World.
[00:19:39.400 --> 00:19:39.960] That's weird.
[00:19:39.960 --> 00:19:46.920] And Shapiro criticizes Superman 2025 for being too much like Guardians of the Galaxy in tone.
[00:19:46.920 --> 00:19:57.160] But actually, Superman is quite like Guardians of the Galaxy in tone in the sense that it's this kind of wacky, ridiculous cosmic world that nevertheless has got real and dangerous consequences.
[00:19:57.160 --> 00:20:01.640] But it is still comic Superman is a very weird place.
[00:20:01.640 --> 00:20:08.280] And it has to be because otherwise, you've got an infinitely powerful guy just knocking about, what, Earth, stopping robberies?
[00:20:08.280 --> 00:20:08.520] Yeah.
[00:20:09.480 --> 00:20:11.960] Mixus Pitlick, by the way, came in in 1944.
[00:20:11.960 --> 00:20:13.640] So way earlier than I thought.
[00:20:13.640 --> 00:20:14.040] Yeah.
[00:20:14.040 --> 00:20:16.200] At the end of the Second World War, A.
[00:20:16.200 --> 00:20:22.120] So year before 1938, Superman comes out, the Nazis rise to power.
[00:20:22.120 --> 00:20:25.240] 1944, Mixix Pitlick comes into comics.
[00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:27.320] The Nazis are defeated a year later.
[00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:29.560] We'll come back to the Second World War later.
[00:20:30.120 --> 00:20:38.680] So Shapiro seems fixated on this idea of Superman being this piece of culturally important Americana when, in fact, it's a daft story about a flying magic man.
[00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:39.080] Yes.
[00:20:39.080 --> 00:20:40.840] And that's all it needs to be.
[00:20:40.840 --> 00:20:50.600] The fact that Shapiro only seems to be familiar with overly serious and po-faced interpretations of the character that we've seen in movies just shows his lack of cultural awareness around the character.
[00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:55.640] The 2025 movie Superman is an adaptation of the comic book.
[00:20:55.640 --> 00:20:58.040] It is not a remake of the Christopher Refilm.
[00:20:58.120 --> 00:20:58.760] Yeah, yeah.
[00:20:59.720 --> 00:21:01.000] But Shapiro goes on.
[00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:06.680] He says, at the very beginning of the movie, you are told that Superman is the most powerful meta-human.
[00:21:06.680 --> 00:21:11.240] Like, there's a placard that says, 30 years ago, and he's right about this.
[00:21:11.240 --> 00:21:11.640] This is true.
[00:21:11.640 --> 00:21:12.440] This happened in the film.
[00:21:12.440 --> 00:21:14.200] There's a caption that comes up on screen.
[00:21:14.200 --> 00:21:17.520] It says, 30 years ago, the meta-humans arrived.
[00:21:17.520 --> 00:21:19.840] Three years ago, Superman emerged.
[00:21:14.760 --> 00:21:21.760] Three weeks ago, there was an invasion.
[00:21:22.080 --> 00:21:25.200] And three minutes ago, Superman got his ass kicked.
[00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:27.040] It doesn't say Superman's got his ass kicked.
[00:21:27.040 --> 00:21:28.720] That's Shapiro's version of it.
[00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:31.760] What it says is Superman loses a fight for the first time.
[00:21:31.760 --> 00:21:32.880] Okay, okay, there's your framing.
[00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:33.760] That's a solid framing.
[00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:35.040] That's the opening of the film.
[00:21:35.040 --> 00:21:37.760] Superman's lost a fight for the first time in his life.
[00:21:37.760 --> 00:21:39.040] Shapiro goes on.
[00:21:39.040 --> 00:21:40.400] He's not very super.
[00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:41.920] He's not the man of steel.
[00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:43.360] He's not invulnerable.
[00:21:43.360 --> 00:21:45.600] He gets his ass kicked routinely.
[00:21:45.600 --> 00:21:47.840] Does he know that steel is vulnerable?
[00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:50.560] Well, famously, Jet Fuel can't touch it.
[00:21:51.120 --> 00:21:51.760] Can't melt it.
[00:21:51.760 --> 00:21:53.440] Can't get anywhere near it.
[00:21:53.440 --> 00:22:00.080] But if Ben Shapiro had paid closer attention to the film, and there's spoilers coming up here, folks, fair warning if you care about that.
[00:22:00.080 --> 00:22:08.960] If Shapiro paid closer attention to the film, he would have noticed that in this opening caption about Superman losing a fight, it's very clear that it's the first time this has ever happened.
[00:22:08.960 --> 00:22:10.320] Yes, and to a meta-human.
[00:22:10.320 --> 00:22:12.560] Yeah, and this is a surprise.
[00:22:12.560 --> 00:22:17.840] This is something that Superman was not expecting to have happened because he doesn't normally lose a fight.
[00:22:17.840 --> 00:22:21.840] It's never happened to him before because he is the most powerful meta-human.
[00:22:21.840 --> 00:22:29.520] Mike, are you going to be doing that thing where you see Ben Shapiro in a Superman t-shirt and say, oh, you're big Superman Fen?
[00:22:29.520 --> 00:22:30.240] Yeah, name three.
[00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:33.680] You're gatekeeping Superman.
[00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:36.000] Having never read Superman.
[00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:44.880] Now, part of this, of making Superman more vulnerable, is about how interesting it is telling stories about all powerful characters or not interesting, as it were.
[00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:46.400] But spoilers incoming.
[00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:53.440] It is also clear in the film, spoilers, that the fight Superman loses is to a clone of himself.
[00:22:53.480 --> 00:23:11.160] Oh, so he is fighting a clone of Superman that Lex Luthor makes, and he loses to that clone, not because the clone is more powerful than he is, but because Lex Luthor is predicting what Superman's next move is going to be and telling the clone how to counter it.
[00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:13.320] Because Lex Luther is meant to be super smart.
[00:23:13.480 --> 00:23:14.920] Lex Luther is the cleverest man in the world.
[00:23:14.920 --> 00:23:17.080] So he's just being out tactic.
[00:23:17.080 --> 00:23:19.240] So he's got a remote control Superman.
[00:23:19.240 --> 00:23:20.120] Basically, yeah.
[00:23:20.120 --> 00:23:26.280] Yeah, this remote control Superman, who I think they're going to turn into Bizarro in a future film, to be honest, because in the film he gets sucked into a black hole.
[00:23:26.600 --> 00:23:29.000] So he doesn't like think and plan these moves for himself.
[00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:32.040] He's told by Lex Luthor, do this, punch that one.
[00:23:32.280 --> 00:23:38.120] That feels like that would be less efficient as a fighting machine because there's going to be a lag.
[00:23:38.360 --> 00:23:40.040] I don't care how good your connection is.
[00:23:41.080 --> 00:23:42.360] He's going to be on 5G.
[00:23:42.360 --> 00:23:43.720] You're still going to have a slight delay.
[00:23:43.720 --> 00:23:45.960] And then he's going to interpret what you're seeing.
[00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:46.760] Yeah.
[00:23:47.080 --> 00:23:48.920] So yes, Superman does get his ass kicked.
[00:23:49.160 --> 00:23:51.080] Be a fucking boring movie if he doesn't.
[00:23:51.080 --> 00:23:51.480] Yeah.
[00:23:51.480 --> 00:23:53.160] Because there will be no jeopardy and no danger.
[00:23:53.160 --> 00:24:05.560] I would also point out that Superman loses fights in the 1978 Superman, in Superman 2, in Superman 3, in Superman 4, in Superman Returns, in Man of Steel, and in Batman V Superman, where he literally dies.
[00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:24.040] In fact, the only movie that I can think of where Superman doesn't lose a fight is in Justice League, where he shows up in the last 10 minutes, having recovered his memories, and then easily beats the villain that everyone else has been struggling with for the last two hours, which pretty effectively demonstrates why having such a powerful character is dramatically uninteresting.
[00:24:24.040 --> 00:24:26.600] Yeah, any big, powerful character, you've got to nerf them constantly.
[00:24:26.600 --> 00:24:31.640] It's why Professor X is constantly being either killed or kidnapped in X-Men.
[00:24:31.640 --> 00:24:32.600] Because if he's there...
[00:24:32.760 --> 00:24:35.880] To the point where comics fans refer to it as being Professor X.
[00:24:36.040 --> 00:24:36.760] Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[00:24:37.080 --> 00:24:40.280] You just take out the character that can solve the problem early doors.
[00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:42.040] Oh, Civil War.
[00:24:42.040 --> 00:24:43.960] Let's throw the Hulk into the sun.
[00:24:43.960 --> 00:24:47.680] Because otherwise, if Hulk's knocking around during Civil War, that's going to be a real issue.
[00:24:47.680 --> 00:24:48.880] Shapiro isn't done, though.
[00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:49.520] He goes on.
[00:24:44.920 --> 00:24:51.120] Superman's parents are from Krypton.
[00:24:51.200 --> 00:24:58.640] If you're going to go through the mythology, they send him to Earth so he can be a moral guide for the people on Earth using his great powers to stop evil from happening to them.
[00:24:58.640 --> 00:24:59.760] No, that's not true.
[00:24:59.760 --> 00:25:00.800] That is not true.
[00:25:00.800 --> 00:25:03.760] They whack him in a capsule because Krypton's about to explode.
[00:25:03.760 --> 00:25:06.240] They just pop him out there and then he goes and lands somewhere.
[00:25:06.240 --> 00:25:07.440] Like this was in the Chris Rewan.
[00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:08.480] I don't know if this is in the comic books.
[00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:12.560] They didn't know he was going to be super powerful because they're not super powerful on Krypton.
[00:25:12.560 --> 00:25:14.720] It's the colour of the sun that makes him more powerful.
[00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:15.280] Indeed, yeah.
[00:25:15.840 --> 00:25:19.040] That yellow sun makes it gives him all his powers.
[00:25:19.040 --> 00:25:20.480] You're mostly right with that, Marsh.
[00:25:20.560 --> 00:25:22.080] What Shapiro says here is just not true.
[00:25:22.080 --> 00:25:26.400] Superman's parents, Jorrell and Lara L, send Superman to Earth.
[00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:28.960] They do specifically pick out Earth as the place to shoot him to.
[00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:29.840] Marlon Brando.
[00:25:29.840 --> 00:25:31.760] What's his birth name and does it end with an L?
[00:25:31.760 --> 00:25:32.160] Yes, it does.
[00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:32.640] Cal El.
[00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:33.920] It's Cal El is his name.
[00:25:34.560 --> 00:25:36.080] He never goes by Cal.
[00:25:36.080 --> 00:25:36.480] No.
[00:25:36.800 --> 00:25:37.840] K-Dog.
[00:25:37.840 --> 00:25:44.400] They send him to Earth because Earth has a suitable atmosphere and because the Yellow Sun will give him superpowers which will help him survive.
[00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:44.720] Okay.
[00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:45.600] That is why they do that.
[00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:47.440] They know about the superpowers.
[00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:49.120] It's because it has a suitable atmosphere.
[00:25:49.120 --> 00:25:49.520] Yes.
[00:25:49.520 --> 00:25:51.440] He can fly around in space.
[00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:55.200] Not since John Byrne rewrote him in the 80s.
[00:25:55.200 --> 00:25:56.640] Okay, that makes more sense.
[00:25:56.640 --> 00:25:58.560] And in fact, not in the new film either.
[00:25:59.040 --> 00:26:01.280] He can suffocate in the new film as well.
[00:26:01.600 --> 00:26:08.800] But do you want to know what was the first version of Superman where it is claimed that he was sent to Earth to morally guide the human race?
[00:26:08.800 --> 00:26:09.440] No.
[00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:10.320] No, no, no, no, no.
[00:26:11.600 --> 00:26:12.480] Yeah, go on.
[00:26:12.480 --> 00:26:13.920] It was the Chris Reed version.
[00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:18.880] It was the first time that it was mentioned that Superman was here to morally guide the human race.
[00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:22.000] And was it then mentioned subsequently?
[00:26:21.960 --> 00:26:25.520] Like, was that just a blip, or was that the story for a bit?
[00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:31.080] That was the story for a bit in the way that often if the movie is big, they'll incorporate bits of it into the comic.
[00:26:29.840 --> 00:26:34.280] Like, for a while, Batman looked like Michael Keaton in the early 90s.
[00:26:34.360 --> 00:26:37.880] Did she just kind of look like Michael Keaton for a bit in the comics?
[00:26:37.880 --> 00:26:46.520] But yeah, it was 1978 Superman, which Shapiro consistently treats as if it is the original canonical version, rather than it being in the comic books.
[00:26:46.520 --> 00:26:53.320] And he is attacking the 2025 film for not following the mythology by comparing it to the 1978 film, which did not follow the mythology.
[00:26:53.320 --> 00:26:54.200] It's just the one he's heard.
[00:26:54.280 --> 00:26:56.360] It's just the one that he's seen.
[00:26:56.680 --> 00:26:59.960] He also talks about Superman's earth parents.
[00:27:00.280 --> 00:27:01.080] Martha.
[00:27:01.080 --> 00:27:03.800] Yeah, Martha and Jonathan Kent, they're named.
[00:27:03.800 --> 00:27:08.120] So just for Alice's benefit, who knows nothing about Superman, Superman crashes as a baby.
[00:27:08.120 --> 00:27:12.120] He's found by two farmers from Kansas who raise him as their own.
[00:27:12.120 --> 00:27:12.600] That's it.
[00:27:12.600 --> 00:27:16.920] And they're nice, homely farmers called Mar and Parr Kent or Jonathan and Martha Kent.
[00:27:17.240 --> 00:27:19.160] And he lifts up like trucks and stuff as a kid.
[00:27:19.400 --> 00:27:20.520] Oh, this one's a bit weird.
[00:27:21.800 --> 00:27:23.960] So his parents, this is from Shapiro.
[00:27:23.960 --> 00:27:26.200] Did his parents give him the fake glasses?
[00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:29.960] No, I think he does the glasses himself when he moves to Metropolis.
[00:27:29.960 --> 00:27:30.280] Okay.
[00:27:30.280 --> 00:27:33.000] Because when he goes back to Smallville, he doesn't wear the glasses.
[00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:33.480] Right.
[00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:35.320] Does he know his history?
[00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:36.360] Yes.
[00:27:36.360 --> 00:27:37.080] How?
[00:27:37.080 --> 00:27:39.160] Because in this 23andMe.
[00:27:39.480 --> 00:27:51.640] The spaceship he crashed in had a data crystal in it that he uses to make a in the North Pole where he gets a hologram message from his dad that explains everything.
[00:27:51.640 --> 00:27:52.840] And his dad's Marlon Brandon.
[00:27:53.000 --> 00:27:53.880] And his dad's Marlon Brandon.
[00:27:54.120 --> 00:28:06.680] So him, his parents, his Earth parents, and then he recognised that this crystal was worth protecting and saving, and yeah, yeah, this was like the 80s, 70s, 80s, so it's the height of Crystal Womb.
[00:28:08.600 --> 00:28:16.800] So, Shapiro and the S was like the symbol on the cloak he was wrapped in, a bit like Moses.
[00:28:14.840 --> 00:28:17.840] Yeah, he's wrapped in little clothes.
[00:28:19.360 --> 00:28:20.640] What was the S stood for?
[00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:23.440] It was the family crest of the House of L.
[00:28:23.760 --> 00:28:25.840] It wasn't an S.
[00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:28.400] It's not an S, it just looks like an S.
[00:28:28.400 --> 00:28:31.440] Because obviously, they didn't write in English on Krypton.
[00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:38.640] I think in Man of Steel, they say it's the Krypton word for hope or the Krypton symbol for hope or something like that.
[00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:47.440] So, sorry, Ben Shapiro, he says Superman's parents, Mara and Parkent, in the original version, they are noble and they are wise.
[00:28:47.440 --> 00:29:04.160] They're kind of salt of the earth, but here they're basically kind of, I don't know, like they're kind of crappy and they live in a kind of crappy house, and they're the kind of folks who are sitting around scratching their butts and they purposefully cast them as ugly and non-noble.
[00:29:04.160 --> 00:29:06.000] Non-noble, non-noble.
[00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:08.720] How do you deliberately cast somebody as not noble?
[00:29:08.800 --> 00:29:12.240] I need an actor who is not noble, who is not noble, hero nobility.
[00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:14.480] Is he saying noble in the sense of nobility?
[00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:15.840] I think he is, yeah.
[00:29:15.840 --> 00:29:19.760] But they weren't then, they were just Kansas farmers, basically, weren't they?
[00:29:19.760 --> 00:29:27.520] Yes, yeah, I guess he means noblers in like equating it with morality and being like good people.
[00:29:27.520 --> 00:29:29.200] Are they bad people in the new film?
[00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:30.480] They're not bad people in the new film.
[00:29:30.560 --> 00:29:37.280] I thought this was a particularly revealing comment because in Superman Law, Superman was raised by the Kents in Smallville, in Kansas.
[00:29:37.280 --> 00:29:43.360] But the new film, the recent film, is the first version where they've actually given them Kansas accents.
[00:29:44.320 --> 00:29:51.440] So he's just gone, oh, they sound like yokels, so they can't possibly be good people or be being portrayed as good people.
[00:29:51.840 --> 00:29:53.440] I genuinely think it is that simple.
[00:29:53.440 --> 00:30:00.360] For the first time, they look and sound like people who live and work on a farm in Kansas because they live and work on a farm in Kansas.
[00:29:59.600 --> 00:30:03.160] And does the farm in Kansas look like a farm in Kansas?
[00:30:03.160 --> 00:30:03.480] Yes.
[00:29:59.840 --> 00:30:04.600] Yeah, that'll be it then.
[00:30:04.760 --> 00:30:09.720] Jonathan Kent does not look like Kevin Costner, which is who played him in Man of Steel.
[00:30:09.720 --> 00:30:11.320] He looks like a farmer from Kansas.
[00:30:11.560 --> 00:30:12.600] Kansas, Kansas, yeah.
[00:30:12.600 --> 00:30:16.600] You know, they aren't played especially non-nobly, I suppose.
[00:30:16.600 --> 00:30:19.240] They're played as a pair of pensioners.
[00:30:19.240 --> 00:30:20.280] Down to earth, yeah.
[00:30:20.280 --> 00:30:23.240] Yeah, because they're a pair of pensioners.
[00:30:23.240 --> 00:30:28.440] So Martha Kent is a bit awkward using her phone, for example, in a way that many pensioners would be.
[00:30:28.440 --> 00:30:35.640] But far from sitting around and scratching their butts, the scene in the film where Superman visits his parents is a major emotional beat in the film.
[00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:39.560] And it's where they are shown to be loving and kind parents.
[00:30:39.560 --> 00:30:44.920] And Superman's father reminds him that it is your actions and your choices that make you who you are.
[00:30:44.920 --> 00:30:50.840] And they're both shown as comforting Clark as he lies in bed and he's struggling because he's had his ass kicked.
[00:30:50.840 --> 00:30:57.400] And they're just not portrayed as Hollywood ideals of rural Midwesterners.
[00:30:57.720 --> 00:30:59.640] They're played as rural Midwesterners.
[00:30:59.800 --> 00:31:02.680] Yeah, it's not Kevin Costner from like Field of Dreams.
[00:31:02.680 --> 00:31:03.400] Yeah, yeah.
[00:31:03.400 --> 00:31:03.880] Yeah.
[00:31:04.200 --> 00:31:08.840] Shapiro goes on, he says, by the way, both of them are alive in this, right?
[00:31:08.840 --> 00:31:15.000] And in the original Superman mythos, Par Kent dies, and that's what sends Superman off on his journey.
[00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:16.680] No, he's thinking of Uncle Ben.
[00:31:16.840 --> 00:31:17.800] The guy did the rice.
[00:31:18.200 --> 00:31:18.760] The rice guy.
[00:31:19.320 --> 00:31:20.760] No, that's all bollocks.
[00:31:20.760 --> 00:31:23.640] The death of Jonathan Kent does appear in many Superman stories.
[00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:26.680] This does happen, notably in the Christopher Reed version.
[00:31:26.680 --> 00:31:35.880] In the Christopher Reed version, Jonathan Kent dies of a heart attack, and that moment makes Superman realize that, even for all of his powers, he still can't save everyone.
[00:31:35.880 --> 00:31:37.480] And that's a big turning point for the character.
[00:31:37.720 --> 00:31:44.880] Yeah, and he's got to be Kevin as well because Supermen actually, they get diagnosed from heart attacks from very different systems, and it's a real problem.
[00:31:44.760 --> 00:31:46.800] Very, very, very, very, very, very surgery.
[00:31:47.360 --> 00:31:52.800] So, it is sometimes a motivating factor in the Superman story of his father dies.
[00:31:52.800 --> 00:31:54.880] They did that in Man of Steel as well.
[00:31:55.040 --> 00:32:04.640] It's weird when they do it in Man of Steel because, as I say, in Superman 1978, Jonathan Kent dies of a heart attack, and there's nothing that Superman could have done about that, right?
[00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:08.560] You know, I suppose you could give him a super defibrillator.
[00:32:08.560 --> 00:32:09.200] I don't know.
[00:32:09.280 --> 00:32:11.440] Blue laser to put his heart back together, like the Great Wall of China.
[00:32:11.520 --> 00:32:12.720] Like the Great Wall of China.
[00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:16.880] But that's a point of Superman realizing for all his power, he can't save everyone.
[00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:20.000] In Man of Steel, his dad dies in a tornado.
[00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:21.360] He could definitely have saved him from that.
[00:32:22.080 --> 00:32:22.880] He definitely could have.
[00:32:23.600 --> 00:32:25.360] But his dad goes, No, don't save me.
[00:32:25.360 --> 00:32:26.240] Just let me die.
[00:32:26.560 --> 00:32:27.040] And he does.
[00:32:27.040 --> 00:32:28.800] And it's like, why?
[00:32:29.120 --> 00:32:30.080] Why?
[00:32:30.080 --> 00:32:31.440] Why did you do that?
[00:32:31.840 --> 00:32:33.280] I could just have saved you.
[00:32:33.280 --> 00:32:37.120] Do you think it was like a suicide by cop, but suicide by tornado kind of thing?
[00:32:37.120 --> 00:32:37.760] Like, he was.
[00:32:39.120 --> 00:32:43.200] So, yeah, the motivation wasn't original to the Christopher E films.
[00:32:43.760 --> 00:32:46.400] It is portrayed in origin stories in the comic books as well.
[00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:52.080] But also in the comic books, Superman is portrayed as having been superboy when he was a teenager.
[00:32:52.080 --> 00:32:57.040] So he was already going around doing super stuff before his dad died and being a hero.
[00:32:57.040 --> 00:33:00.800] That was never the motivating factor that made him become a hero.
[00:33:00.800 --> 00:33:08.160] And when Superman was rebooted in the 1980s after Crisis on Infinite Earths, the death of Jonathan Kent was removed in that version of the story.
[00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:14.160] And notably, for fans of the TV Superman, the Dean Kane version, both his parents are alive all the way through that.
[00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:16.280] They turn up regularly in the show.
[00:33:16.080 --> 00:33:16.600] Yeah.
[00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:19.760] Dean Kane, probably a topic for another day.
[00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:22.720] But Shapiro's review continues in this pattern.
[00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:31.800] He cites something and says it's not what's in the original, but it's because he's using the 78 version as the original and not anything from the previous 40 years.
[00:33:32.120 --> 00:33:33.080] Not the comics.
[00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:36.520] He complains that Crypto, the super dog, is a very badly behaved dog.
[00:33:36.840 --> 00:33:38.600] He is a very badly behaved dog.
[00:33:38.600 --> 00:33:40.680] Badly behaved dog in the comics as well.
[00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:43.720] In the comics, he's more intelligent than an ordinary dog.
[00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:45.240] Why?
[00:33:45.240 --> 00:33:46.120] Where does he come from?
[00:33:46.120 --> 00:33:47.160] He is a Krypton dog.
[00:33:47.160 --> 00:33:48.520] He is a pet dog from Krypton.
[00:33:48.520 --> 00:33:49.400] How did he get there?
[00:33:49.400 --> 00:33:54.520] In the film, he's Supergirl's dog because she comes from a different bit of the Krypton Empire.
[00:33:54.520 --> 00:33:54.920] Okay.
[00:33:54.920 --> 00:33:57.320] I think she comes from a city in a bottle, actually, in the comics.
[00:33:59.960 --> 00:34:00.840] It doesn't matter.
[00:34:02.120 --> 00:34:07.160] But Krypto in the comics is described as having the normal urges of a dog, except he's super.
[00:34:07.160 --> 00:34:11.560] So instead of chasing cars, he chases planes because he's super fly.
[00:34:11.560 --> 00:34:11.800] Right.
[00:34:11.800 --> 00:34:16.120] When he said the normal urge of the dog, I thought it was alluding to like humping cushions.
[00:34:16.120 --> 00:34:18.120] Yeah, he doesn't hump the fire hydrant.
[00:34:18.120 --> 00:34:20.680] He humps the fucking Empire State Building.
[00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:21.880] The fire engine.
[00:34:23.800 --> 00:34:29.240] Shapiro also complains that Supergirl, who makes a very brief cameo in the film, is a drunken teenage brat.
[00:34:29.560 --> 00:34:35.800] He says, anything that you think you know about the Superman universe, James Gunn is determined to debunk it.
[00:34:36.120 --> 00:34:44.920] Except in the comics, Supergirl is usually portrayed as an impulsive, bad-tempered, bratty, prone to making bad decisions because she is young and inexperienced.
[00:34:44.920 --> 00:34:49.240] And she is specifically portrayed as a drunken teenage brat in some comics.
[00:34:49.240 --> 00:34:53.400] Although, in fairness to Ben Shapiro, the first time that happened was in 2004.
[00:34:53.400 --> 00:34:57.160] And we know superheroes for Ben Shapiro exist only in 1978.
[00:34:57.320 --> 00:34:58.040] Yes.
[00:34:58.360 --> 00:34:58.920] So presumably.
[00:35:00.040 --> 00:35:06.680] That kind of character is needed for a character like Superman, who is has been portrayed as that moralistic perspective.
[00:35:06.840 --> 00:35:09.080] Like, you need somebody to counter that.
[00:35:09.080 --> 00:35:10.840] Otherwise, it's just going to be really boring.
[00:35:11.160 --> 00:35:14.600] If she's just Superman in a mini skirt, well, what's the fucking point?
[00:35:14.720 --> 00:35:17.040] Yeah, you know, you need to have something different to do with the character.
[00:35:14.840 --> 00:35:21.920] The only point of it is the mini skirt, essentially, is why you've come up with that character.
[00:35:22.240 --> 00:35:29.280] And Ben Shapiro refers to this film as debunking elements of the Superman story when actually what the film is doing is comic accurate.
[00:35:30.080 --> 00:35:31.760] He says, This is my favorite bit.
[00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:36.240] He says, I think it is a betrayal of the original IP and is mildly upsetting.
[00:35:36.240 --> 00:35:38.480] Not very upsetting, but mildly upsetting.
[00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:39.680] It's 20 minutes upsetting.
[00:35:39.680 --> 00:35:43.680] It's not like a half an hour video upsetting, but it's a good 20-minute rant upsetting.
[00:35:43.680 --> 00:35:54.080] And he makes this comment, fully not grasping that this film is a far more faithful adaptation of the original IP than the 1978 movie that he is putting on a pedestal.
[00:35:54.080 --> 00:36:02.000] You may as well complain that the Globe production of Romeo and Juliet is not faithful to the original because they took all the songs from West Side Story out of it.
[00:36:03.520 --> 00:36:04.320] What's the point then?
[00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:05.520] They were going to take the songs out.
[00:36:05.520 --> 00:36:07.360] Yeah, they were using swords rather than guns.
[00:36:07.360 --> 00:36:08.880] This is nothing like the original.
[00:36:10.400 --> 00:36:18.480] He also has some very specific comments about the plot of the film, which I think demonstrate that either he wasn't paying attention or he's being deliberately disingenuous.
[00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:20.720] I'll leave you to make up your own mind as to which.
[00:36:20.720 --> 00:36:29.760] He complains that Lex Luthor's motivation in the film is boring because it comes down to Superman is strong, but I am smart, so why do people like him better?
[00:36:30.080 --> 00:36:34.080] But this is a fully comics accurate motivation for Lex Luther.
[00:36:34.080 --> 00:36:41.040] Except actually, in the original original comics, Lex Luthor originally appeared in a Superboy comic before he became a Superman villain.
[00:36:41.040 --> 00:36:41.520] Okay.
[00:36:41.520 --> 00:36:50.240] In Super Boy, the reason that Lex hates Superman is because they're doing an experiment in a lab, and the lab catches fire.
[00:36:50.240 --> 00:36:55.280] And Superman blows the fire, well, or Super Boy blows the fire out with his Super Breath.
[00:36:55.280 --> 00:36:57.680] And that blows all of Lex's hair off.
[00:36:57.680 --> 00:37:01.640] And Lex is upset about this because it never grows back, and that's why he hates Superman.
[00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:03.800] God, that is so fucking stupid.
[00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:07.720] That is genuinely the canonical reason for their animosity.
[00:37:08.280 --> 00:37:09.880] That's 1938, though, isn't it?
[00:37:09.880 --> 00:37:11.080] Because this is going to be way back.
[00:37:11.080 --> 00:37:11.720] Yeah, it's way back.
[00:37:11.800 --> 00:37:14.120] It wasn't 38, but it would have been like 50s.
[00:37:14.120 --> 00:37:18.840] It would have been, you know, very old version of the story when they were much more, much more childish.
[00:37:18.840 --> 00:37:22.200] They've since retconned that, and it is about jealousy.
[00:37:22.200 --> 00:37:26.280] It's like he has all of this power and it gives him all of this respect.
[00:37:26.280 --> 00:37:27.960] And why don't I get that respect?
[00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:30.120] Very much a comics-accurate motivation.
[00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:39.240] And we could argue that that motivation might be comics accurate, but it's not the kind of motivation that anyone would have in real life except literally Elon Musk.
[00:37:39.240 --> 00:37:41.160] Yes, literally Elon Musk.
[00:37:41.480 --> 00:37:45.880] So, boring a motivation or not, it is comics accurate to the lore of Superman.
[00:37:45.880 --> 00:37:59.320] He also criticizes a specific part of the plot where we find out that Lex Luthor has done a deal with a foreign dictator who is going to annex another country if Lex can get Superman out of the way and then give Lex half of that country.
[00:37:59.320 --> 00:38:05.560] And Shapiro is critical of this, saying, Why does Lex Luthor care so much about this relatively small plot of land?
[00:38:05.560 --> 00:38:08.520] And this misses two important points.
[00:38:08.520 --> 00:38:14.680] First, in the 1978 film, Gene Hackman's version of Lex Luthor is all about fucking real estate.
[00:38:14.680 --> 00:38:15.160] Yes, he is.
[00:38:15.160 --> 00:38:18.440] He tries to like flood parts of California to make a new beachfront.
[00:38:18.440 --> 00:38:18.680] Yes.
[00:38:18.680 --> 00:38:19.160] Yes.
[00:38:19.480 --> 00:38:21.720] To sell new beachfront property.
[00:38:21.720 --> 00:38:25.240] Land ownership is a very common motivation for Lex Luthor.
[00:38:25.240 --> 00:38:31.800] The Kevin Spacey version of Lex Luthor also is all about fucking real estate and selling real estate and selling property.
[00:38:31.800 --> 00:38:33.320] It's all about land ownership.
[00:38:33.320 --> 00:38:37.400] Ironically, then, Kevin Spacey's crimes were worse than Lex Luthor's.
[00:38:38.640 --> 00:38:39.800] Because ironically enough.
[00:38:40.120 --> 00:38:42.760] Lex Luthor, all he's doing is dodgy real estate deals.
[00:38:42.760 --> 00:38:45.000] Like, Lex Luthor would look down on Kevin Spacey.
[00:38:46.960 --> 00:39:01.600] But beyond the fact that real estate is a very common motivation for Lex Luthor, even in the film that Ben Shapiro holds up as the archetypal perfect version of Superman, in the new movie, Lex comments to Superman, I don't want to kill you so I can start the war.
[00:39:01.600 --> 00:39:04.080] I started this war so I can kill you.
[00:39:04.400 --> 00:39:10.480] Killing Superman is Lex's motivation, and everything else is a means to that end.
[00:39:11.040 --> 00:39:13.440] He's got that completely backwards.
[00:39:13.440 --> 00:39:20.720] And Shapiro knows that he's got that backwards because he references that line, but then still complains, well, why is Lex care about this small plot?
[00:39:20.720 --> 00:39:23.040] He doesn't care about this small plot of land.
[00:39:23.040 --> 00:39:24.640] He cares about killing Superman.
[00:39:24.640 --> 00:39:32.080] The deal with the dictator was just an excuse to get the government on side to let him kill Superman with impunity.
[00:39:32.400 --> 00:39:35.440] And the film is very clear on that point.
[00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:42.640] He complains about the scenes where Superman catches a falling building to prevent it landing on somebody, or in one case, landing on a squirrel.
[00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:48.320] And Shapiro says, except those buildings are full of people who are all dead now.
[00:39:48.640 --> 00:39:48.960] What?
[00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:53.280] But if he couldn't stop it falling, he could only stop it killing also the squirrel.
[00:39:53.440 --> 00:39:54.400] I mean, that's true.
[00:39:54.400 --> 00:39:56.000] I haven't seen the film, so I don't know if that's...
[00:39:56.320 --> 00:39:58.160] No, you're quite right.
[00:39:58.160 --> 00:40:05.360] You know, if he's going to stop it, he can't save everyone in the building, but he can save somebody if he catches the building, so it doesn't land on them, whatever.
[00:40:05.360 --> 00:40:08.800] Well, Shapiro misses, and he has seen the film, notionally, so...
[00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:10.320] Is that it's a direct building?
[00:40:10.320 --> 00:40:11.280] It's an empty building.
[00:40:11.280 --> 00:40:12.800] They've evacuated the city.
[00:40:12.800 --> 00:40:14.320] The whole city has been evacuated.
[00:40:14.320 --> 00:40:15.360] The buildings are all empty.
[00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:17.680] But he wasn't paying attention to that bit, apparently.
[00:40:17.680 --> 00:40:22.240] He complains about another scene where Superman and Lois Lane are having a big, deep emotional conversation.
[00:40:22.240 --> 00:40:30.680] And in the background behind them, you can see other superheroes fighting off an attack from an interdimensional imp that has decided to attack the city.
[00:40:30.680 --> 00:40:35.160] And Superman ignores this completely and lets the other heroes get on with fighting the imp.
[00:40:29.840 --> 00:40:36.840] And Shapiro doesn't like this at all.
[00:40:37.080 --> 00:40:40.040] He says, shouldn't Superman be doing something about it?
[00:40:40.040 --> 00:40:40.840] No, no, no.
[00:40:40.840 --> 00:40:42.840] He says, just let them handle it.
[00:40:42.840 --> 00:40:45.720] Again, that's kind of irritating.
[00:40:45.720 --> 00:40:49.160] Which is entirely missing the point once again.
[00:40:49.160 --> 00:40:55.880] Because in other versions of Superman, notably the Christopher Reeve version, he's the only superhero in the world.
[00:40:55.880 --> 00:40:56.280] Yeah.
[00:40:56.280 --> 00:40:59.800] In this version of Superman, superheroes are everywhere.
[00:40:59.800 --> 00:41:03.400] In this film, we've got Hawk Girl and Green Lantern and Mr.
[00:41:03.400 --> 00:41:05.880] Terrific and Supergirl and all these characters in the world.
[00:41:06.040 --> 00:41:06.680] All the big names.
[00:41:07.240 --> 00:41:10.200] It's a world stuffed full with superheroes.
[00:41:10.200 --> 00:41:12.760] Yes, all the characters you grew up loving.
[00:41:12.760 --> 00:41:13.720] Hawk Girl.
[00:41:13.720 --> 00:41:14.760] Hawk Girl's brilliant.
[00:41:14.760 --> 00:41:16.680] Didn't she get that crypto coin?
[00:41:16.680 --> 00:41:18.760] And then she disappeared.
[00:41:19.400 --> 00:41:24.600] But Superman is ignoring the attack from the interdimensional creature because it's just another Tuesday.
[00:41:25.640 --> 00:41:27.560] This is a weird, fantastical world.
[00:41:27.960 --> 00:41:29.480] You respect your co-workers.
[00:41:29.480 --> 00:41:30.200] You let them flow.
[00:41:31.080 --> 00:41:31.400] Yeah.
[00:41:31.560 --> 00:41:34.920] It's a weird, fantastical world where Metropolis is getting attacked by monsters.
[00:41:35.320 --> 00:41:40.280] There's characters watching it, filming on their phones, eating ice cream while the attack is going on.
[00:41:40.280 --> 00:41:43.720] Because even for the citizens of Metropolis, it's just, oh, fucking again.
[00:41:43.720 --> 00:41:45.320] Because it's a weird superhero world.
[00:41:45.320 --> 00:41:46.680] Yeah, like traffic.
[00:41:46.680 --> 00:41:48.520] And the superheroes are just dealing with it.
[00:41:48.520 --> 00:41:52.920] Christopher Reeve, ignoring attack from an interdimensional imp would be negligent.
[00:41:52.920 --> 00:41:54.920] Well, because he's Superman.
[00:41:55.240 --> 00:41:58.280] I think just Christopher Reeve ignoring it would be fine.
[00:41:58.360 --> 00:41:58.920] Still negligent.
[00:41:59.080 --> 00:42:00.360] Would have been fine.
[00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:05.240] That Superman ignoring that attack would be negligent because he is the only person who could help.
[00:42:05.240 --> 00:42:10.200] In a world full of superheroes, it is fucking mundane that this attack is happening and nobody should care.
[00:42:10.200 --> 00:42:12.920] And obviously, Superman's going to go, I'm in the middle of something now.
[00:42:12.920 --> 00:42:13.640] It's in hand.
[00:42:13.640 --> 00:42:14.760] I don't need to worry about it.
[00:42:15.920 --> 00:42:25.200] Anyway, the last point that I want to get to on this, and returning to Ben Shapiro's obsession with Superman as some sort of American archetype, he says.
[00:42:25.520 --> 00:42:32.320] The fundamental flaw in all Superman movies in my lifetime is this thing that Hollywood cannot say and will not do.
[00:42:32.320 --> 00:42:33.760] Politics.
[00:42:33.760 --> 00:42:37.600] Does he still stand for truth, justice, and all that stuff?
[00:42:37.600 --> 00:42:45.520] The only Superman movie I have ever seen that uses truth, justice, and the American way is the original 1978 Superman.
[00:42:45.520 --> 00:42:47.600] This is not just a throwaway line.
[00:42:47.600 --> 00:42:51.280] It is deeply important to the character of Superman.
[00:42:51.920 --> 00:42:52.960] Let me guess.
[00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:53.680] It isn't.
[00:42:53.680 --> 00:42:54.800] Yeah, it's not.
[00:42:55.120 --> 00:42:56.480] It's definitely not.
[00:42:56.960 --> 00:43:02.640] I mean, if we have In God We Trust on our money, then we need the American way in our Superman.
[00:43:02.640 --> 00:43:03.280] Yeah.
[00:43:03.600 --> 00:43:17.520] So just looking at the history of it, the first use of the phrase truth, justice, in the American Way with reference to Superman came from a radio adaptation of Superman, so not in the comics, a radio adaptation of Superman called The Adventures of Superman.
[00:43:17.520 --> 00:43:23.440] And in this radio adaptation, the narrator says, Superman fights for truth, justice, in the American way.
[00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:27.680] Yeah, and this was the radio adaptation, I think, where's Superman play by Bob Holness?
[00:43:30.800 --> 00:43:39.840] Notably, this radio play about Superman was broadcast during the Second World War, where this was very much a piece of wartime propaganda.
[00:43:40.240 --> 00:43:47.120] That's why Superman was suddenly fighting for the American way, is this was 1942, and we're fighting Hitler.
[00:43:47.120 --> 00:43:48.960] In God we trust.
[00:43:49.280 --> 00:43:54.800] The phrase was dropped from the radio show at the end of the war.
[00:43:55.120 --> 00:43:58.640] When the war finished, they stopped saying truth, justice, in the American way.
[00:43:58.640 --> 00:44:08.280] It makes a comeback in the 1950s in a TV series, again as a voiceover in the opening, in the Look in the Sky, it's a bird that's a plane, that same voiceover.
[00:44:08.280 --> 00:44:09.800] Again, not in the comics.
[00:44:09.800 --> 00:44:16.120] And again, here it is propaganda because this is in the middle of the Red Scare, through the peak of McCarthyism.
[00:44:16.120 --> 00:44:18.040] That was when this show was running.
[00:44:18.040 --> 00:44:32.680] That show finishes in 1958, and then the phrase disappears once again, and we do not hear it again until the Christopher Reeve movie when Superman, for the first time Superman himself, says, I'm here to fight for truth, justice, in the American way.
[00:44:32.840 --> 00:44:34.840] So why does Chris Reeves say it?
[00:44:35.160 --> 00:44:39.560] Because the people who made that film grew up watching the 50s serials.
[00:44:39.960 --> 00:44:41.480] Literally, that's the reason why.
[00:44:41.480 --> 00:44:45.000] But they also made Superman way more powerful than in the 50s serials.
[00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:45.480] Yeah.
[00:44:46.440 --> 00:44:47.960] Just bad, in it.
[00:44:47.960 --> 00:44:54.760] After this, the phrase appears in the pilot episode of Superboy, where Superboy says, I fight for the truth, justice, in the American way.
[00:44:54.760 --> 00:44:56.920] After that, never gets mentioned again.
[00:44:56.920 --> 00:44:58.520] It's not in the Dean Kane version.
[00:44:58.520 --> 00:44:59.800] It doesn't appear in Smallville.
[00:44:59.800 --> 00:45:00.920] It's not in Superman Returns.
[00:45:00.920 --> 00:45:01.800] It's not Man of Steel.
[00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:03.400] It's not in Back Mevy Superman.
[00:45:03.400 --> 00:45:07.080] The most recent Superman TV show, which is called Superman and Lois, which I've not seen.
[00:45:07.080 --> 00:45:07.640] I don't imagine that.
[00:45:07.720 --> 00:45:08.920] I don't think anyone has.
[00:45:08.920 --> 00:45:11.160] I think it's on BBC One at 5 p.m.
[00:45:11.240 --> 00:45:11.720] on a Saturday.
[00:45:12.200 --> 00:45:13.640] No one's watching BBC One at 5 p.m.
[00:45:13.640 --> 00:45:14.360] on a Saturday.
[00:45:14.680 --> 00:45:21.880] In one episode of that, Superman says he fights for truth and justice, to which Lois says, and the American way, and Superman just laughs.
[00:45:22.360 --> 00:45:22.760] That's it.
[00:45:22.760 --> 00:45:25.320] That's the closest that we've got to any version of this.
[00:45:25.320 --> 00:45:30.600] The phrase does not appear in a Superman comic book until 1991.
[00:45:30.600 --> 00:45:35.640] 53 years after the character first appeared in Action Comics number one.
[00:45:35.640 --> 00:45:44.440] This is the line that Shapiro says is deeply important to the character and does not get a mention in the original source material for its first 53 years.
[00:45:44.440 --> 00:45:44.760] Yeah.
[00:45:45.840 --> 00:45:55.200] Shapiro again says the only reason why Superman is a hero as opposed to a villain is because he grew up in America and he has the American way.
[00:45:55.520 --> 00:45:58.960] He is emblematic of what makes America what it is.
[00:45:58.960 --> 00:46:06.400] He may blunder, he may make mistakes, but overall, he stands for freedom, liberty, and private property and free speech.
[00:46:06.400 --> 00:46:08.560] Private property and free speech?
[00:46:08.880 --> 00:46:10.880] Which really made me fuck me.
[00:46:10.880 --> 00:46:19.200] I literally snorted with laughter on that one because everyone remembers all those famous Superman stories where it's like, I fucking love private property.
[00:46:19.200 --> 00:46:21.120] Just trickle down economics.
[00:46:21.120 --> 00:46:23.680] It's such a key thing for Superman that he loves.
[00:46:23.840 --> 00:46:24.400] Hang on.
[00:46:24.400 --> 00:46:25.680] No, it's Lex Luthor.
[00:46:25.680 --> 00:46:30.400] It's Lex Luther who really likes private property, who keeps banging on about fucking private property.
[00:46:30.400 --> 00:46:36.080] I mean, Superman is a symbol of how America got strong because it's an exceptional immigrant.
[00:46:36.400 --> 00:46:40.400] It's an immigrant bringing his exceptional talents to the betterment of America as a nation.
[00:46:40.400 --> 00:46:48.320] Although, some versions of Superman try to work around that by having when the ship crashes, he's not a baby.
[00:46:48.320 --> 00:46:53.440] He lands in a kind of artificial womb, and so he is born on American soil.
[00:46:54.720 --> 00:46:55.760] Oh my God.
[00:46:55.760 --> 00:47:00.560] But that just highlights how ridiculous resistance to immigration is.
[00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:03.440] Birthright citizenship now.
[00:47:04.080 --> 00:47:11.600] But this was the line that I thought really betrayed Shapiro's agenda here because he is not describing Superman's values.
[00:47:11.600 --> 00:47:16.400] He is critiquing the film not based on Superman's character or comic book history.
[00:47:
Prompt 2: Key Takeaways
Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.
Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...".
Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive.
IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}
Prompt 3: Segments
Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.
For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion
IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.
Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
"segments": [
{
"segment_title": "Topic Discussion",
"timestamp": "01:15:30",
"key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
"segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
}
]
}
Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.
Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:
Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)
DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names
IMPORTANT:
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.
Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
"media_mentions": [
{
"title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
"category": "Book",
"author_artist": "N/A",
"context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
"context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
"timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
}
]
}
If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}
Prompt 5: Context Setup
You are an expert data extractor tasked with analyzing a podcast transcript.
I will provide you with part 2 of 2 from a podcast transcript.
I will then ask you to extract different types of information from this content in subsequent messages. Please confirm you have received and understood the transcript content.
Transcript section:
hero as opposed to a villain is because he grew up in America and he has the American way.
[00:45:55.520 --> 00:45:58.960] He is emblematic of what makes America what it is.
[00:45:58.960 --> 00:46:06.400] He may blunder, he may make mistakes, but overall, he stands for freedom, liberty, and private property and free speech.
[00:46:06.400 --> 00:46:08.560] Private property and free speech?
[00:46:08.880 --> 00:46:10.880] Which really made me fuck me.
[00:46:10.880 --> 00:46:19.200] I literally snorted with laughter on that one because everyone remembers all those famous Superman stories where it's like, I fucking love private property.
[00:46:19.200 --> 00:46:21.120] Just trickle down economics.
[00:46:21.120 --> 00:46:23.680] It's such a key thing for Superman that he loves.
[00:46:23.840 --> 00:46:24.400] Hang on.
[00:46:24.400 --> 00:46:25.680] No, it's Lex Luthor.
[00:46:25.680 --> 00:46:30.400] It's Lex Luther who really likes private property, who keeps banging on about fucking private property.
[00:46:30.400 --> 00:46:36.080] I mean, Superman is a symbol of how America got strong because it's an exceptional immigrant.
[00:46:36.400 --> 00:46:40.400] It's an immigrant bringing his exceptional talents to the betterment of America as a nation.
[00:46:40.400 --> 00:46:48.320] Although, some versions of Superman try to work around that by having when the ship crashes, he's not a baby.
[00:46:48.320 --> 00:46:53.440] He lands in a kind of artificial womb, and so he is born on American soil.
[00:46:54.720 --> 00:46:55.760] Oh my God.
[00:46:55.760 --> 00:47:00.560] But that just highlights how ridiculous resistance to immigration is.
[00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:03.440] Birthright citizenship now.
[00:47:04.080 --> 00:47:11.600] But this was the line that I thought really betrayed Shapiro's agenda here because he is not describing Superman's values.
[00:47:11.600 --> 00:47:16.400] He is critiquing the film not based on Superman's character or comic book history.
[00:47:16.400 --> 00:47:23.400] He has retrofitted his political views onto the character and then is annoyed that the character doesn't support them.
[00:47:23.200 --> 00:47:23.560] Yeah.
[00:47:24.160 --> 00:47:27.280] Fundamentally, Superman is a refugee.
[00:47:27.280 --> 00:47:32.920] He's somebody who flees his home during a natural disaster and then makes a new home on Earth.
[00:47:29.840 --> 00:47:36.200] And he grows up to love his new planet that he lives on.
[00:47:36.520 --> 00:47:41.240] He loves the people who live on this planet and he dedicates his life to protecting those people.
[00:47:41.240 --> 00:47:42.520] It's properly.
[00:47:42.520 --> 00:47:44.920] Give me your tide, your paws, your huddle masses, stuff.
[00:47:45.240 --> 00:47:46.600] You know, it's proper statue.
[00:47:47.320 --> 00:47:47.560] Right?
[00:47:47.880 --> 00:47:50.120] That's what the story of Superman is about.
[00:47:50.120 --> 00:47:54.520] If you want to get twatty and poncy about it, that's what Superman is about.
[00:47:54.520 --> 00:47:57.320] Or it's a daft story about Magic Flying Man.
[00:47:57.320 --> 00:47:59.800] But either way, he's not fucking Stars and Stripes.
[00:47:59.800 --> 00:48:01.960] He's not a Ronald Reagan campaign ad.
[00:48:01.960 --> 00:48:02.280] Yeah.
[00:48:02.520 --> 00:48:04.280] Sent to Captain America.
[00:48:04.920 --> 00:48:07.080] He's the man of steel, not the Iron Lady.
[00:48:08.360 --> 00:48:14.760] He's not a Ronald Reagan campaign ad sent to Earth to validate Ben Shapiro's political worldview.
[00:48:18.920 --> 00:48:23.160] So for QED, we've got a couple of new announcements that we can talk about for QED.
[00:48:23.160 --> 00:48:29.400] So first, we've got a workshop to announce that is going to be hosted for us by the fantastic Matt Kemp.
[00:48:29.400 --> 00:48:33.160] Yes, people who've been to QED before might remember Matt Kemp.
[00:48:33.160 --> 00:48:42.040] So Matt Kemp is the guy who came and drew some of our sessions at QED way back when, pre-pandemic.
[00:48:42.040 --> 00:48:45.080] Pre-pandemic, yeah, I think it was 17 and 18 he did for us.
[00:48:45.080 --> 00:48:50.840] So he works for a company called Scriberia, which is all about communicating through drawing.
[00:48:51.080 --> 00:48:53.880] So what he does for a living is communicate through drawing.
[00:48:53.880 --> 00:48:54.280] Nice.
[00:48:54.280 --> 00:48:55.960] Which is a pretty cool job to have.
[00:48:55.960 --> 00:49:01.960] And he has agreed to do a workshop for us on exactly that topic: how to communicate through drawing.
[00:49:01.960 --> 00:49:06.440] He is going to make you feel confident if you're you would like to draw but do not know how to draw.
[00:49:06.440 --> 00:49:07.640] It'll be a great session.
[00:49:07.640 --> 00:49:11.320] And he may even draw us a few boards around the event as well.
[00:49:11.320 --> 00:49:12.840] So, be a fun one.
[00:49:12.840 --> 00:49:14.520] Yeah, yeah, should be an interesting one.
[00:49:14.520 --> 00:49:16.880] And we've also got a panel to pitch, Marsh.
[00:49:16.880 --> 00:49:22.560] We have so obviously, this is our last QED, and it's in our 15th year.
[00:49:22.960 --> 00:49:28.480] We sort of did the first one in 2011, so 40, well, in our 15th, yes, so we did our first one in 2011.
[00:49:28.480 --> 00:49:34.080] We've been involved in skepticism now for 15 years as the most skeptic society and as the podcast.
[00:49:34.080 --> 00:49:48.800] And so, with that forming a nice kind of bookend, Richard Wiseman and Chris French actually suggested to us that we have a panel which is looking at how skepticism has changed in 15 years and what it's achieved in 15 years and what else there is to do.
[00:49:48.800 --> 00:49:59.120] So, it's a panel called Looking Back Moving Forwards and just looking at how skepticism has developed, what activities of skepticism over the last 15 years have achieved, especially in the UK.
[00:49:59.120 --> 00:50:02.720] Is critical thinking on the rise or is it in decline and those types of things?
[00:50:02.720 --> 00:50:06.320] What's the future hold for skepticism in the UK in particular?
[00:50:06.320 --> 00:50:15.200] And we wanted to keep it UK focused because if we're time limited on the scope of the panel, we can't do it justice to do everywhere.
[00:50:15.200 --> 00:50:19.200] And QED is in is a UK skepticism festival, so it felt appropriate.
[00:50:19.200 --> 00:50:32.160] So, that's going to be with Chris French, who obviously has done a huge amount of skeptical work and former editor of the skeptic magazine, and Professor Richard Wiseman, who people will know his work from his queer college videos and his YouTube channel and all the great psychology stuff he's done.
[00:50:32.160 --> 00:50:40.560] And then you and I, Alice, are going to be on talking about stuff that we've been doing in that 15 years, and the four of us will try and assess kind of the lie of the land, essentially.
[00:50:40.560 --> 00:50:42.800] So, yeah, should be an interesting chance to take stock.
[00:50:42.800 --> 00:50:48.880] And I'm not involved in that panel, which, despite being involved in skepticism for 15 years, which because all I've done is fuck it up.
[00:50:49.360 --> 00:50:52.080] That's all the mistakes that we've made, they were all me.
[00:50:53.360 --> 00:50:56.400] Get out of this room and hang your head in shame.
[00:50:57.440 --> 00:51:00.840] So, if you are coming to QED, you can look forward to those two sessions.
[00:51:00.840 --> 00:51:01.640] They're going to be fantastic.
[00:51:01.640 --> 00:51:03.880] We're going to have much, much more to announce coming up.
[00:51:03.880 --> 00:51:05.720] And the panel will be streamed, so you can get your streaming tickets.
[00:50:59.840 --> 00:51:06.600] It will be live streamed.
[00:51:06.920 --> 00:51:08.520] Yes, you can get your streaming tickets.
[00:51:08.520 --> 00:51:09.560] They are Β£49.
[00:51:09.640 --> 00:51:11.880] You can pick those up at qdcon.org.
[00:51:11.880 --> 00:51:13.960] We should also plug our Patreon.
[00:51:13.960 --> 00:51:14.680] Yes.
[00:51:14.680 --> 00:51:25.240] So if you enjoy the show and you enjoy what we do and you would like to support the show and support us, you can do that by going to patreon.com forward slash skeptics with a K, where you can donate for as little as a pound a month.
[00:51:25.240 --> 00:51:29.160] And in exchange for that, you will get copies of ad-free versions of this show.
[00:51:29.160 --> 00:51:29.480] You will.
[00:51:29.480 --> 00:51:35.800] You'll also get the satisfaction of knowing you're funding independent skeptical analysis and investigations.
[00:51:35.800 --> 00:51:41.080] Not just when Mike watches someone else's YouTube video and then repeats large parts of it.
[00:51:41.080 --> 00:51:44.200] But regurgitates it word for word in large sections.
[00:51:44.200 --> 00:51:47.720] For all of the time and the effort that the three of us put into our story.
[00:51:47.800 --> 00:51:49.480] I had to watch fucking Ben Shapiro.
[00:51:49.480 --> 00:51:52.360] I had to watch him sitting there Bell Engineer.
[00:51:52.360 --> 00:51:52.600] Yeah.
[00:51:52.600 --> 00:51:56.120] So it helps us be able to spend the time on the show.
[00:51:56.120 --> 00:52:02.120] And Alice talked obviously last episode about how her time is quite precious with the disability that you have.
[00:52:02.120 --> 00:52:02.920] So it helps.
[00:52:02.920 --> 00:52:10.200] So if you do want to do that, you can sort of kick in a quid pound a month for the four to five episodes that you'll get in the course of that time.
[00:52:10.200 --> 00:52:10.440] Yeah.
[00:52:10.440 --> 00:52:13.320] And we will be very, very grateful to you for that.
[00:52:13.320 --> 00:52:16.120] You can also donate to the Mercy Sound Skeptics Society.
[00:52:16.200 --> 00:52:18.520] You can do that at patreon.com forward slash Mercy Skeptics.
[00:52:18.520 --> 00:52:24.120] That also supports the show and supports the work of the Mersey Sound Skeptics who do brilliant work and brilliant stuff.
[00:52:24.120 --> 00:52:28.600] And as we've just heard from Marsh, for the last 15 years, we've been doing brilliant work and brilliant stuff.
[00:52:28.600 --> 00:52:31.000] Aside from that, then I think that is all we have time for.
[00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:31.560] I think it is.
[00:52:31.560 --> 00:52:34.120] All that remains then is for me to thank Marsh for coming along today.
[00:52:34.120 --> 00:52:34.600] Cheers.
[00:52:34.600 --> 00:52:35.640] Thank you to Alice.
[00:52:35.640 --> 00:52:36.120] Thank you.
[00:52:36.120 --> 00:52:38.760] We have been Skeptics with a K, and we will see you next time.
[00:52:38.760 --> 00:52:39.400] Bye now.
[00:52:39.400 --> 00:52:40.280] Bye.
[00:52:45.120 --> 00:52:50.160] Skeptics with a K is produced by Skeptic Media in association with the Merseyside Skeptic Society.
[00:52:50.160 --> 00:52:59.520] For questions or comments, email podcast at skepticswithakay.org and you can find out more about Merseyside Skeptics at merseyside skeptics.org.uk.
Prompt 6: Key Takeaways
Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.
Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...".
Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive.
IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}
Prompt 7: Segments
Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.
For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion
IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.
Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
"segments": [
{
"segment_title": "Topic Discussion",
"timestamp": "01:15:30",
"key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
"segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
}
]
}
Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.
Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:
Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)
DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names
IMPORTANT:
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.
Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
"media_mentions": [
{
"title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
"category": "Book",
"author_artist": "N/A",
"context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
"context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
"timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
}
]
}
If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}
Full Transcript
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[00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:16.080] It is Thursday, the 28th of August, 2025, and you're listening to Skeptics with a K, the podcast for science, reason, and critical thinking.
[00:01:16.080 --> 00:01:26.640] Skeptics with a K is produced by Skeptic Media in association with the Merseyside Skeptic Society, a non-profit organization for the promotion of scientific skepticism on Merseyside around the UK and internationally.
[00:01:26.640 --> 00:01:28.000] I'm your host, Mike Hall.
[00:01:28.000 --> 00:01:29.440] With me today is Marsh.
[00:01:29.440 --> 00:01:29.920] Hello.
[00:01:29.920 --> 00:01:30.800] And Alice.
[00:01:30.800 --> 00:01:31.680] Hello.
[00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:37.120] So, a few episodes ago, we briefly touched on the fact that I've been to see Superman.
[00:01:37.760 --> 00:01:38.640] Yes, we'd mentioned that.
[00:01:38.640 --> 00:01:39.440] I've still not seen it.
[00:01:39.440 --> 00:01:40.160] I probably won't.
[00:01:40.560 --> 00:01:41.120] I might.
[00:01:41.120 --> 00:01:41.840] I might not.
[00:01:41.840 --> 00:01:43.040] I really enjoyed Superman.
[00:01:43.040 --> 00:01:46.800] I've not been a terrific fan of the recent slate of DC movies.
[00:01:46.800 --> 00:01:48.320] They've all been very fucking po-faced.
[00:01:48.800 --> 00:01:52.960] Are you a big fan of the 90s Superman becoming an ice agent?
[00:01:52.960 --> 00:01:55.600] No, although we might touch on him a little bit later.
[00:01:55.600 --> 00:01:56.000] Okay.
[00:01:56.400 --> 00:01:58.560] You and I went to see Fantastic Four.
[00:01:58.560 --> 00:01:59.440] We did go and see Fantastic Four.
[00:01:59.440 --> 00:02:04.600] I've not been to see Fantastic Four yet, and I'm annoyed because I want to see that more than I wanted to see Superman.
[00:01:59.680 --> 00:02:06.280] I've just been too busy to go see Fantastic.
[00:02:06.760 --> 00:02:08.200] I'm very excited for Tapa.
[00:02:08.760 --> 00:02:09.560] It's enjoyable.
[00:02:09.560 --> 00:02:11.640] It's all very like, I just like all the deck.
[00:02:11.960 --> 00:02:12.920] I like all the decors.
[00:02:12.920 --> 00:02:15.160] I know Retro in 60s and kind of the thing with the microphone.
[00:02:15.720 --> 00:02:17.800] While we watch it going, like, oh, I love that lamp.
[00:02:19.400 --> 00:02:22.280] It was basically an IKEA catalogue to you.
[00:02:22.280 --> 00:02:29.160] But I really enjoyed Superman, and it was fun, and it was fun in a way that Superman kind of hasn't been in live action for a few decades.
[00:02:29.160 --> 00:02:31.800] You know, I'm not really a DC comics person.
[00:02:31.800 --> 00:02:35.560] I think, much like you, Marshall, I always found Marvel more accessible and engaging.
[00:02:35.560 --> 00:02:36.520] More interesting, yeah.
[00:02:36.520 --> 00:02:41.400] Superman wasn't really that interesting to me, nor was Batman, to be honest.
[00:02:41.400 --> 00:02:43.080] No, and those are their only two characters.
[00:02:43.080 --> 00:02:45.080] Yeah, I'd be hard-pressed to name Masspoke.
[00:02:45.080 --> 00:02:45.720] Wonder Woman.
[00:02:45.720 --> 00:02:47.000] Yeah, Green Lantern.
[00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:47.560] Green Lantern.
[00:02:48.840 --> 00:02:49.480] That's it.
[00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:50.280] That I'm out.
[00:02:50.280 --> 00:02:51.640] The annual green arrow.
[00:02:51.640 --> 00:02:55.160] Was there not a film recently that was like five of them all together?
[00:02:55.160 --> 00:02:56.920] Yeah, and even people who saw it can't name it.
[00:02:57.000 --> 00:02:58.360] Aquaman, Aquaman's a DC.
[00:02:58.440 --> 00:02:59.000] I went to see it.
[00:02:59.000 --> 00:02:59.720] I went to see it.
[00:02:59.720 --> 00:03:00.600] Oh, you went to see it?
[00:03:00.600 --> 00:03:01.080] I've no idea.
[00:03:01.320 --> 00:03:02.760] Cyborg.
[00:03:02.760 --> 00:03:03.720] I think there's a Cyborg.
[00:03:04.760 --> 00:03:06.920] I don't know if he's a comics character original to the film.
[00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:08.200] No, I think he's a comic character.
[00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:09.800] I think he's in the Justice League.
[00:03:09.800 --> 00:03:10.280] Yeah.
[00:03:10.600 --> 00:03:12.600] But yeah, I mean, it doesn't matter right now.
[00:03:12.600 --> 00:03:17.320] But I should warn you both, and indeed listeners at home, that there will be spoilers for Superman in this story.
[00:03:17.480 --> 00:03:20.680] If you're going to tell us he's Clark Kent, we're already across that.
[00:03:20.680 --> 00:03:21.880] We already know that.
[00:03:22.200 --> 00:03:29.720] So I'm going all in on Superman today because I watched Ben Shapiro's review of Superman.
[00:03:29.720 --> 00:03:30.200] Okay.
[00:03:30.760 --> 00:03:32.360] Which he put up on his YouTube channel.
[00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:33.800] Why would you do that to yourself?
[00:03:33.800 --> 00:03:36.120] Yeah, I don't think we've ever mentioned Ben Shapiro on this show.
[00:03:36.520 --> 00:03:37.080] I don't think we have.
[00:03:37.480 --> 00:03:40.440] I think it's because it's too low-hanging fruit, isn't it?
[00:03:40.760 --> 00:03:42.760] Not in any depth, certainly.
[00:03:42.760 --> 00:03:48.640] So, Ben Shapiro did a review of the new Superman film, and in fairness, he says the movie was fun.
[00:03:44.920 --> 00:03:52.080] He says that his wife enjoyed it, which is good.
[00:03:52.240 --> 00:03:53.360] That's probably the only enjoyment she gets.
[00:03:53.760 --> 00:03:57.360] He's exactly the person.
[00:03:57.360 --> 00:04:00.480] He's exactly the person who knows how to tell when his wife's enjoying something.
[00:04:00.480 --> 00:04:02.960] Yeah, yeah, you can tell.
[00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:09.040] Anyway, he said his wife thought it was fun, and he knows other people have said the movie was fun, and I agree.
[00:04:09.040 --> 00:04:09.840] I thought the movie was fun.
[00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:12.080] But Ben Shapiro does not agree.
[00:04:12.160 --> 00:04:15.360] He says the movie is not Superman, it's Super Meh.
[00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:18.400] Okay, but oh, sorry, his wife said it was fun, but he doesn't think it's fun.
[00:04:19.520 --> 00:04:22.160] He thinks it's not fun, but he's more analytical about things than she is.
[00:04:23.360 --> 00:04:24.640] Well, he's paid to be.
[00:04:24.640 --> 00:04:27.760] And he goes into why he thinks this film is super meh.
[00:04:27.760 --> 00:04:29.360] Is it because he's paid to?
[00:04:30.320 --> 00:04:35.520] If you asked me what I thought of a film and I thought it was meh, I would tell you I thought it was meh, and I've probably done that on this show.
[00:04:35.520 --> 00:04:35.920] Yeah.
[00:04:35.920 --> 00:04:37.680] But I wouldn't write a whole review about it.
[00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:39.840] No, I've got a 20-minute YouTube video about it.
[00:04:39.840 --> 00:04:40.720] No, you wouldn't do that.
[00:04:41.280 --> 00:04:42.000] It wasn't for me.
[00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:42.560] That's fine.
[00:04:42.560 --> 00:04:44.720] Other people can enjoy things that I don't enjoy.
[00:04:44.720 --> 00:04:51.040] But you aren't set up as a psyop by rich, right-wing industrialists as a propaganda tool.
[00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:55.040] If you were, even if you thought the film wasn't meh, you'd say it was meh.
[00:04:55.360 --> 00:04:58.480] Now, I have to be fair and transparent up, not to Ben.
[00:04:58.560 --> 00:04:59.760] I'm certainly not going to give you that.
[00:04:59.760 --> 00:05:14.480] I have to be fair and transparent in other circumstances here because underneath Ben Shapiro's video was a link to another video, and this video was titled, I fact-checked Ben Shapiro's Superman Review, which was by a YouTuber called NerdSync.
[00:05:14.480 --> 00:05:14.960] Okay.
[00:05:14.960 --> 00:05:19.280] And I'm going to link his video in the show notes because effectively what I'm doing here is stealing his bit.
[00:05:19.280 --> 00:05:19.840] Lovely.
[00:05:20.080 --> 00:05:21.360] It's not his bit.
[00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:22.800] This is my review.
[00:05:22.800 --> 00:05:25.600] But obviously, there is going to be some crossover in.
[00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:27.680] If there's facts that are wrong, you're both going to spot the film.
[00:05:27.840 --> 00:05:29.600] We're both going to spot the same facts that are wrong.
[00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:32.920] I do like that you can fact-check someone's review of a film.
[00:05:29.760 --> 00:05:36.280] Because a review is often like, oh, yeah, it was good and I enjoyed this pete.
[00:05:29.840 --> 00:05:37.080] Eh, fact-check.
[00:05:37.160 --> 00:05:38.120] No, you didn't.
[00:05:38.120 --> 00:05:42.920] Nerdsink almost certainly is going to have done a better job of this than I am because he seems to be a proper comics guy.
[00:05:42.920 --> 00:05:45.000] I've since watched his video review.
[00:05:45.000 --> 00:05:45.320] Okay.
[00:05:45.400 --> 00:05:47.640] He seems to be a proper comic guy, knows his stuff.
[00:05:47.640 --> 00:05:49.560] He could probably name like six DC characters.
[00:05:49.800 --> 00:05:50.600] He probably could.
[00:05:50.600 --> 00:05:53.000] Not including Harlequin, which was invented for the cartoon.
[00:05:53.080 --> 00:05:53.800] It was the cartoon anyway.
[00:05:55.560 --> 00:06:01.320] So that said, these are my comments about Shapiro's review without reference to Nerd Sync's comments about it.
[00:06:01.320 --> 00:06:05.000] But there might be overlap because, of course, we're responding to the same stuff.
[00:06:05.320 --> 00:06:09.640] Anyway, I wanted to be upfront about that because, you know, Nerd Sync did beat me to the point on this.
[00:06:09.800 --> 00:06:11.800] SYNC or S-I-N-K?
[00:06:11.960 --> 00:06:13.800] S-Y-N-I-S-N-Synchronize.
[00:06:13.800 --> 00:06:15.240] Okay, not as in, like, low.
[00:06:15.320 --> 00:06:16.440] You can know yourself.
[00:06:16.440 --> 00:06:16.920] Yeah.
[00:06:17.480 --> 00:06:20.120] Not as in a place to pour wastewater.
[00:06:20.120 --> 00:06:20.440] Yeah.
[00:06:20.440 --> 00:06:21.160] Right, okay.
[00:06:21.480 --> 00:06:28.920] Or the little thing you do to make the wood around the top of the screw wider so that the screw lies flush within the woods.
[00:06:30.040 --> 00:06:30.280] Yeah.
[00:06:30.280 --> 00:06:32.840] Not the massive holes that sometimes appear in the middle of the street.
[00:06:33.320 --> 00:06:34.200] Not those either.
[00:06:34.200 --> 00:06:34.760] No.
[00:06:35.080 --> 00:06:36.520] I'll start with the good stuff up front.
[00:06:36.520 --> 00:06:40.200] So Shapiro acknowledges that the cast is good.
[00:06:40.200 --> 00:06:41.240] Okay, who's in it?
[00:06:41.640 --> 00:06:42.520] I know nothing about this.
[00:06:42.680 --> 00:06:45.320] Superman is played by Michael David Cornsweat.
[00:06:45.400 --> 00:06:46.280] Don't know who that is.
[00:06:46.520 --> 00:06:47.800] He's not done anything else.
[00:06:47.800 --> 00:06:48.200] Okay.
[00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:51.640] Is that Rachel Brosnahan from Mrs.
[00:06:51.640 --> 00:06:54.040] Mazel, who is playing Lois Lane?
[00:06:54.280 --> 00:06:54.840] Okay.
[00:06:54.840 --> 00:06:58.120] You've also got Nicholas Holt playing Lickluther.
[00:06:58.280 --> 00:06:58.440] Yeah.
[00:06:58.440 --> 00:07:00.200] Nicholas Holt, you'd know him from Skins.
[00:07:00.680 --> 00:07:02.840] I never watched Skinners, but I think I know Nicholas Holt.
[00:07:02.920 --> 00:07:05.720] He was in the Dracula film.
[00:07:05.720 --> 00:07:07.000] Did you watch the Dracula film?
[00:07:07.160 --> 00:07:07.560] I did, yeah.
[00:07:07.560 --> 00:07:08.360] Nosferratu.
[00:07:08.360 --> 00:07:09.080] Nosferratu.
[00:07:09.080 --> 00:07:09.560] He was the guy.
[00:07:09.880 --> 00:07:10.840] He played.
[00:07:10.840 --> 00:07:12.960] I want to say John Harkness, but it wasn't John the Hartako.
[00:07:13.040 --> 00:07:16.320] John is terrible with names, particularly of actors.
[00:07:16.320 --> 00:07:17.040] It was him anyway.
[00:07:17.040 --> 00:07:17.760] Yeah, I know him.
[00:07:17.760 --> 00:07:18.000] Yeah, yeah.
[00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:18.640] I know him.
[00:07:12.920 --> 00:07:19.680] It's who I was thinking of.
[00:07:19.840 --> 00:07:21.440] Yeah, he's an X-Men first class.
[00:07:21.440 --> 00:07:22.000] Yeah.
[00:07:22.320 --> 00:07:24.000] And Days of Futures Pass?
[00:07:24.160 --> 00:07:24.720] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:26.640] Yeah.
[00:07:27.280 --> 00:07:29.040] Where he's got a big scene with his feet.
[00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:30.400] There's a big foot scene in it.
[00:07:30.400 --> 00:07:30.800] It's good.
[00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:34.560] Not even a Tarantino film, but somehow a big foot scene in it.
[00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:36.000] So Shapiro acknowledges...
[00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:36.720] A big foot scene.
[00:07:36.880 --> 00:07:38.000] Not a big foot scene.
[00:07:38.800 --> 00:07:40.400] Although, maybe.
[00:07:40.400 --> 00:07:45.840] Although Sasquatch was a character in the Marvel universe, so they could have turned up.
[00:07:45.840 --> 00:07:47.440] So Shapiro says the cast is good.
[00:07:47.440 --> 00:07:59.600] He is also critical of other commentators, both left and right, who say that the movie is a thinly disguised commentary on Russia-Ukraine or Israel-Palestine on those conflicts.
[00:07:59.600 --> 00:08:02.400] So there's a lot of people on both sides of the equation.
[00:08:02.400 --> 00:08:08.640] On the right, they're saying, well, it's obviously about Israel and Palestine, and it's dreadful and woke.
[00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:12.880] He is dismissive of this being a politically motivated film.
[00:08:12.880 --> 00:08:14.560] He says, no, there's nothing of that.
[00:08:14.560 --> 00:08:16.080] It's just a film.
[00:08:16.400 --> 00:08:24.240] So he acknowledges that overall people think the movie is fun, but thinks that he is more analytical than this because he has deeper insights.
[00:08:24.240 --> 00:08:31.440] And his deeper insights rather expose how much he absolutely doesn't know about Superman.
[00:08:31.760 --> 00:08:43.040] So he says, my overall problem with the movie is that you're taking the most iconic American IP of all time, Superman, which is to be treated with a certain level of respect.
[00:08:43.040 --> 00:08:47.600] And that doesn't mean it needs to be some grand mythology, the way Zack Snyder wants to do it.
[00:08:47.600 --> 00:08:50.000] My standard for Superman is not Man of Steel.
[00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:55.520] My standard for Superman is 1978 Richard Donner, the best version of Superman.
[00:08:55.520 --> 00:08:56.480] So let's start with this one.
[00:08:56.480 --> 00:09:01.640] So, as we talked about a few episodes ago, 1978 Superman is the Christopher Eve Superman.
[00:08:59.440 --> 00:09:06.040] It's something, and that version of Superman is a bit of a weird anachronism.
[00:09:06.600 --> 00:09:13.640] So, Superman was first introduced in the comics in Action Comic Issue One in 1938.
[00:09:14.120 --> 00:09:17.240] I have never seen any Superman content ever.
[00:09:17.240 --> 00:09:18.680] I've never seen any of the films.
[00:09:18.680 --> 00:09:20.920] I've never seen any of the various TV shows that are like.
[00:09:20.920 --> 00:09:22.120] I've never watched Lois and Clark.
[00:09:22.120 --> 00:09:22.280] Nope.
[00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:23.960] The new adventures of Lois and Clark.
[00:09:23.960 --> 00:09:24.920] I've never watched what's that?
[00:09:25.960 --> 00:09:26.760] I've never watched Smallville.
[00:09:26.920 --> 00:09:27.640] Normal Smallville.
[00:09:27.640 --> 00:09:28.680] I've not watched Smallville.
[00:09:28.680 --> 00:09:29.240] No.
[00:09:29.720 --> 00:09:30.760] I never watched Superman.
[00:09:30.840 --> 00:09:34.280] I'm completely watching Smallville makes you complicit in a sex crime these days.
[00:09:35.240 --> 00:09:38.520] I've never watched anything that Superman is in ever.
[00:09:38.840 --> 00:09:40.600] You just got no interest in Superman.
[00:09:40.760 --> 00:09:41.960] It's just never come up.
[00:09:41.960 --> 00:09:45.800] I mean, you also got no interest in film, which just really helps.
[00:09:46.920 --> 00:09:51.320] I've never been thinking about watching a film when Superman has at any point crossed my mind.
[00:09:51.560 --> 00:09:57.240] You're just too young for it because the thing is, the Christopher Eve Superman, not the 78, because I was too young for 78, but it was huge.
[00:09:57.560 --> 00:10:00.680] But a few years after it came out, that's when it was on the television as well.
[00:10:00.680 --> 00:10:05.320] So I remember the whole big deal of how they do him in the flying scenes.
[00:10:05.400 --> 00:10:08.200] Oh, a green screen, a blue screen, or whatever it was.
[00:10:08.200 --> 00:10:08.760] That's amazing.
[00:10:08.760 --> 00:10:09.640] They could do the flying.
[00:10:09.960 --> 00:10:10.440] So like.
[00:10:10.840 --> 00:10:15.000] You believe a man can fly the whole, but it was a huge deal at the time.
[00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:18.280] And Superman things that have been big deals.
[00:10:18.280 --> 00:10:28.840] No, but Superman has never been as big a deal because I think the Christopher Eve Superman was at a time when special effects could just about get away with making him look like he was actually flying for the first time.
[00:10:28.840 --> 00:10:31.320] Anything before that definitely didn't look like he was flying.
[00:10:31.560 --> 00:10:34.840] We would not be where we are now with comic book movies if it wasn't for that film.
[00:10:34.840 --> 00:10:35.000] Yeah.
[00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:36.360] And everything after that.
[00:10:36.360 --> 00:10:38.360] Well, yeah, obviously, you can make it look like he's flying.
[00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:39.080] Superman did it.
[00:10:39.080 --> 00:10:45.600] So I think that that moment made Superman as a figure much bigger internationally than the character would have been just in the from the comics.
[00:10:44.840 --> 00:10:49.120] And if you've just not got the interest in Superman, then you haven't.
[00:10:49.280 --> 00:10:51.680] It's going to make it a painful half hour for you, to be honest.
[00:10:52.800 --> 00:10:56.560] Well, I've never watched Jaws because, you know, there's been shark stuff on telly, and I've not been that interested.
[00:10:56.720 --> 00:10:58.240] Yeah, but Jaws was massive.
[00:10:58.240 --> 00:10:59.200] I've never watched Jaws.
[00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:01.680] Oh, my God.
[00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:04.080] But Jaws was a massive thing.
[00:11:04.080 --> 00:11:08.560] I would be surprised, and indeed, I am surprised that you didn't watch Lois and Clark, for example.
[00:11:08.560 --> 00:11:13.680] Although when that was big on Telemachus, that was the mid-90s, you might be a little bit young for it.
[00:11:13.680 --> 00:11:15.280] I wouldn't have watched it had it not been that.
[00:11:15.440 --> 00:11:18.320] I wouldn't have watched any of it had the films not been that big.
[00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:23.040] But anyway, Superman first appeared in comics 1938.
[00:11:23.040 --> 00:11:28.640] And in the original comic, his powers were much more limited than the powers that we are used to Superman having now.
[00:11:28.640 --> 00:11:29.280] And it's worth pointing out.
[00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:31.520] He doesn't have that many powers now, though, does he?
[00:11:31.520 --> 00:11:32.720] God, everything.
[00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:33.280] Oh, okay.
[00:11:33.280 --> 00:11:36.000] He's bulletproof, fast in a speed and bullet.
[00:11:36.000 --> 00:11:39.280] He can't laser vision and blowy, blowy cold.
[00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:40.640] Although he's just flying and strong.
[00:11:40.640 --> 00:11:42.000] He can turn back time.
[00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:44.000] Flying and strong as most of it.
[00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:45.600] But Marsh, you're getting carried away.
[00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:49.760] But 1938, I was going to say Superman comes along 1938.
[00:11:49.760 --> 00:11:54.240] 1939, Ubermensch and the rise of the Nazis.
[00:11:54.560 --> 00:11:55.440] Related.
[00:11:55.440 --> 00:11:56.720] Just going to say.
[00:11:57.040 --> 00:12:03.200] So, Superman in the original comic, he is portrayed as strong because, like, on the front cover of Action Comics 1, he's lifting a car up above his head.
[00:12:03.520 --> 00:12:05.680] Is that one-handed, or are you just holding your phone with the other hand?
[00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:06.400] Two hands.
[00:12:06.400 --> 00:12:09.680] Two hands to lift up a car.
[00:12:09.680 --> 00:12:10.960] He's fast.
[00:12:10.960 --> 00:12:13.360] He's resilient, so bullets will bounce off him.
[00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:14.800] He's faster than speeding bullets.
[00:12:14.800 --> 00:12:21.360] But he could be injured by a big enough, like a mortar shell would injure him, for example, but a bullet wouldn't.
[00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:23.200] So he wasn't impervious to harm.
[00:12:23.200 --> 00:12:26.880] He could just, you know, but he was impervious to bullets, for example.
[00:12:26.880 --> 00:12:29.120] And rather than flying, he was just able to jump.
[00:12:29.360 --> 00:12:31.160] Yeah, he could leap over a building.
[00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:32.520] Tall building in a single bound.
[00:12:32.520 --> 00:12:33.080] That was the claim.
[00:12:33.080 --> 00:12:33.880] That's where that comes from.
[00:12:29.840 --> 00:12:35.560] The famous cat horn.
[00:12:37.160 --> 00:12:40.440] The famous faster than speeding bullet, more powerful than locomotive stuff.
[00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:42.760] That, you know, originally, Superman couldn't fly.
[00:12:43.240 --> 00:12:44.760] Up there with, is it a bird?
[00:12:44.760 --> 00:12:45.640] Like, look up there.
[00:12:45.640 --> 00:12:46.440] Is it a bird?
[00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:47.400] Is it a plane?
[00:12:47.400 --> 00:12:48.280] No, it's Superman.
[00:12:48.280 --> 00:12:51.240] Like, right, because only the third one of those is interesting.
[00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:51.640] Yeah.
[00:12:51.640 --> 00:12:55.400] If it was a bird, I don't think everyone in the city would be like, look up there.
[00:12:55.400 --> 00:12:56.360] Is it a bird?
[00:12:56.680 --> 00:12:58.440] You just yapped it.
[00:12:58.760 --> 00:12:59.960] Yeah, it is.
[00:13:00.600 --> 00:13:02.600] Well, they're wasting all of our time.
[00:13:02.600 --> 00:13:06.360] It's a pigeon in New York/slash Metropolis.
[00:13:06.360 --> 00:13:07.400] Actually, it's not New York, is it?
[00:13:07.400 --> 00:13:08.840] I forget where it's meant to be.
[00:13:09.400 --> 00:13:10.120] It's Metropolis.
[00:13:10.200 --> 00:13:11.080] Yeah, it's Metropolis.
[00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:11.560] Yeah.
[00:13:11.560 --> 00:13:19.240] But over the course of the subsequent decades, writers just added in new powers for him, like willy-nilly, depending on what MacGuffin.
[00:13:20.760 --> 00:13:21.640] He was.
[00:13:22.280 --> 00:13:26.200] Just depending on what MacGuffin they needed to solve the plot that week, right?
[00:13:26.200 --> 00:13:30.760] So his powers became more and more extreme over the run of the comics.
[00:13:30.760 --> 00:13:35.320] So by the mid-70s, Superman's powers were absolutely absurd.
[00:13:35.320 --> 00:13:35.880] Yeah.
[00:13:35.880 --> 00:13:44.920] Other than very comic book feats, like he could push planets or he's an alien, alien from the planet Krypton.
[00:13:44.920 --> 00:13:46.040] Yeah, I think I didn't know that.
[00:13:46.040 --> 00:13:46.600] Yeah.
[00:13:46.600 --> 00:13:50.360] So he can push planets out of their orbits, like he can just push them and move them.
[00:13:50.360 --> 00:13:55.000] In one comic, he blows out a star, just blows the star out.
[00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:59.320] It's weird that he's such like an American good guy for saying he's an alien.
[00:13:59.560 --> 00:14:01.000] They don't usually like that, do they?
[00:14:01.000 --> 00:14:03.640] Welcome to Ben Shapiro's problem here.
[00:14:03.960 --> 00:14:04.760] Strap in.
[00:14:05.080 --> 00:14:06.680] You get where Mike's going.
[00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:10.760] So, yeah, there's the kind of classic comic book stuff of like, because Hulk could do that.
[00:14:10.760 --> 00:14:11.960] There's like World Breaker Hulk.
[00:14:11.960 --> 00:14:14.120] Hulk has punched the ground and cracked a planet in two.
[00:14:14.120 --> 00:14:15.000] That happens, right?
[00:14:15.280 --> 00:14:18.240] So, kind of, he can blow a star out, he can push a planet, that happens.
[00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:20.640] But there's even more weird powers than that.
[00:14:20.640 --> 00:14:30.160] One version of Superman, I think, from the 60s can shoot a little miniature Superman out of his hands that can then go off and be autonomous and do its own thing.
[00:14:30.160 --> 00:14:31.920] Like the new Falcon thing.
[00:14:32.400 --> 00:14:35.920] Falcon's got a little drone now that he can send off in the comics.
[00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:40.800] He's Captain America, but in the comics Falcon, it's not a little drone, it's an actual film.
[00:14:40.880 --> 00:14:41.520] It's an actual bird.
[00:14:43.040 --> 00:14:44.960] That's a bit too weird for the films.
[00:14:44.960 --> 00:14:45.520] We're going to make it.
[00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:46.560] Look up in the sky.
[00:14:46.560 --> 00:14:47.440] It's a bird.
[00:14:47.520 --> 00:14:48.720] It's a bird.
[00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:56.240] By the time of the 70s, a Superman could withstand a nuclear blast, never mind a bullet, you know, stuff like that.
[00:14:56.240 --> 00:14:58.240] And this just made for bad stories, right?
[00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:03.040] Because when your central character is that powerful, it's really hard to get any jeopardy into a story.
[00:15:03.040 --> 00:15:04.880] That's why I've never given a shit about Superman.
[00:15:04.880 --> 00:15:05.120] Yeah.
[00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:07.040] Although it was massive at the time.
[00:15:07.040 --> 00:15:08.480] And I did watch it.
[00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:11.040] Like, once I was past the age of about eight.
[00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:12.480] Yeah.
[00:15:12.480 --> 00:15:12.880] Yeah.
[00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:14.480] And it was this version.
[00:15:14.560 --> 00:15:17.600] It's only so long you can wear your coat with your hood on your head, so you've got to catch it.
[00:15:19.280 --> 00:15:20.800] Yeah, I think we all did that one.
[00:15:20.800 --> 00:15:26.800] But it was this version of Superman, this crazy, overpowered version of Superman, that the 1978 film was based on.
[00:15:26.800 --> 00:15:30.480] So he's got these over-the-top powers in the film.
[00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:34.000] So he's got a super kiss, which can erase your memory.
[00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:34.720] Oh, yeah.
[00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:36.080] Like he kisses Lois Lane.
[00:15:36.160 --> 00:15:37.200] He's a roofie kiss.
[00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:37.680] Yeah.
[00:15:38.560 --> 00:15:39.360] Basically.
[00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:41.280] And erases her memory.
[00:15:41.280 --> 00:15:46.160] He can split into multiple copies of himself, which he does in Superman 2 in the Fortress of Solitude.
[00:15:46.160 --> 00:15:47.280] He just kind of disappears.
[00:15:47.280 --> 00:15:50.080] And like four of him appear when he's trying to confuse General Zong.
[00:15:50.080 --> 00:15:51.280] Yeah, that Spider-Man meme.
[00:15:51.280 --> 00:15:52.320] Like the Spider-Man meme.
[00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:53.360] Yep, absolutely.
[00:15:53.360 --> 00:15:57.600] He rebuilds the Great Wall of China in Superman 4 by looking at it.
[00:15:57.600 --> 00:16:04.040] He just looks at it and a blue beam comes out of his eyes and it just assembles itself like he's got some sort of weird telekinesis thing.
[00:16:04.920 --> 00:16:10.520] And there's this bit in Superman 2 where he's got a weird cellophane version of the logo on his chest that he throws it.
[00:16:10.600 --> 00:16:11.480] Tony control it.
[00:16:11.480 --> 00:16:12.280] Yeah, yeah.
[00:16:12.280 --> 00:16:17.960] And they get tangled in it for a couple of minutes and they go, oh, that was annoying.
[00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:24.040] We've also missed that he turned, you can turn the planet backwards on its orbit and turn back time in doing so.
[00:16:24.040 --> 00:16:28.760] So he flies around the earth so fast that the earth starts to spin backwards and time goes backwards.
[00:16:28.760 --> 00:16:30.600] Yes, and downwards.
[00:16:31.080 --> 00:16:35.960] The reason I missed that out is because I think that's a widely misinterpreted scene along those lines.
[00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:39.800] I think the point is that Superman is flying faster than light himself.
[00:16:39.800 --> 00:16:44.920] Oh, so he's turning time backwards and so the planet looks like it's going to be just actually time going backwards.
[00:16:45.080 --> 00:16:46.760] That's what I think, which is why I skipped that out.
[00:16:47.480 --> 00:16:49.160] Or maybe they're just that mad.
[00:16:49.480 --> 00:16:50.200] I don't know.
[00:16:50.200 --> 00:16:51.480] I don't know.
[00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:59.080] So when DC's comics rebooted Superman in the 1980s, they scaled back on a lot of this stuff and they made Superman much more vulnerable.
[00:16:59.320 --> 00:17:01.000] Crisis on Infinite Earth, was that the name of it?
[00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:02.440] It was Crisis on Infinite Earth.
[00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:03.320] They did it.
[00:17:03.560 --> 00:17:04.520] It's a title that I know.
[00:17:04.520 --> 00:17:06.440] I've never read a single Superman thing.
[00:17:06.440 --> 00:17:08.120] I just know that's a thing that happened.
[00:17:08.120 --> 00:17:13.960] They kind of rebooted the multiverse at that point and reset Superman in a comic written by a guy called John Byrne.
[00:17:13.960 --> 00:17:18.840] It was a comic called Man of Steel, which rebooted Superman and stripped back on a lot of this stuff.
[00:17:18.840 --> 00:17:24.520] So he was much more vulnerable, which made it easier to get Jeopardy into your story, right?
[00:17:24.520 --> 00:17:27.880] But movie Superman was still stuck in the 70s.
[00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:30.120] Movie Superman was still the 70s version.
[00:17:30.120 --> 00:17:34.520] And that version of Superman is the Superman that Ben Shapiro thinks is the archetype.
[00:17:34.840 --> 00:17:37.240] He thinks that is the definitive Superman.
[00:17:37.240 --> 00:17:45.920] When actually that version of Superman that Ben Shapiro is interested in was already recognized as not being great by the time the film was being made.
[00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:50.560] The comics writers were already going, this is a fucking hard work, this, when they were making that film.
[00:17:44.600 --> 00:17:56.480] It's like arguing that the definitive version of Spider-Man is the Toby Maguire one where the webs come out of his wrists.
[00:17:56.480 --> 00:17:56.640] Yes.
[00:17:56.720 --> 00:17:57.920] Because, you know, it's Spider-Man.
[00:17:57.920 --> 00:17:59.040] The webs come out of his wrists.
[00:17:59.200 --> 00:17:59.520] Right.
[00:17:59.520 --> 00:18:01.680] Only for a very short time in the comics that this happened.
[00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:04.240] It just happened to be the most famous version.
[00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:06.960] But this is Shapiro's understanding of what Superman should be like.
[00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:11.760] And much of his review is coloured by this very narrow view that he has of the character.
[00:18:11.760 --> 00:18:24.160] He says, quote, there are character problems, and all of it is just wrapped around this fast-paced, jokey tone, which doesn't mesh with Superman as a central part of Americana.
[00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:25.280] Why can't...
[00:18:25.840 --> 00:18:26.960] See, that is just...
[00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:31.200] That's a man who has heard the word Americana but not fully understood it.
[00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:38.480] Because to say that, oh, you can't have a jokey, light tone in Americana is fucking ridiculous.
[00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:39.920] It is ridiculous, yeah.
[00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:44.400] It also tells me that Ben Shapiro's got no idea how fucking weird Superman is in the comics.
[00:18:44.800 --> 00:18:49.680] The character and the stories and the world he lives in in the comics is just bananas.
[00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:53.840] Comic Superman has to deal with interdimensional tricksters like Mr.
[00:18:53.840 --> 00:18:58.000] Mixix Piddlick, who casually rewrites reality just for fun.
[00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:01.360] You send him back by seeing his name backwards or something, don't you?
[00:19:01.360 --> 00:19:01.840] I don't know.
[00:19:01.840 --> 00:19:02.320] Don't know.
[00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:04.640] I believe that's how you get rid of Mixix Pidlick.
[00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:06.160] He has to deal with bizarro words.
[00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:07.600] That was just a collection of sounds.
[00:19:07.600 --> 00:19:08.320] That wasn't a word.
[00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:10.480] Well, that's what makes it so difficult to say his name backwards.
[00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:11.600] Mixix Piccolik?
[00:19:11.600 --> 00:19:12.080] Yeah, exactly.
[00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:13.360] With Mixix Piddlick.
[00:19:13.360 --> 00:19:14.000] Mixix Piclick.
[00:19:14.080 --> 00:19:15.520] It's got no fucking vowels in it.
[00:19:15.520 --> 00:19:18.480] It's M-X-Y-Z-P-T-L-K.
[00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:21.680] That's going to be a classic, like, late 70s, early 80s kind of character, isn't it?
[00:19:21.760 --> 00:19:22.720] When everything just went fucking.
[00:19:22.800 --> 00:19:24.240] And he's got a little hat on, Mr.
[00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:25.840] Mixixis Piddlick, and things like that.
[00:19:25.840 --> 00:19:27.920] I was going to Google him, then I thought, how?
[00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:28.480] How?
[00:19:30.280 --> 00:19:37.800] Superman also has to deal with Bizarro World, which is an alternative dimension where everything is backwards and Earth is a cube and good is bad and bad is good.
[00:19:38.120 --> 00:19:39.400] I've heard of Bizarro World.
[00:19:39.400 --> 00:19:39.960] That's weird.
[00:19:39.960 --> 00:19:46.920] And Shapiro criticizes Superman 2025 for being too much like Guardians of the Galaxy in tone.
[00:19:46.920 --> 00:19:57.160] But actually, Superman is quite like Guardians of the Galaxy in tone in the sense that it's this kind of wacky, ridiculous cosmic world that nevertheless has got real and dangerous consequences.
[00:19:57.160 --> 00:20:01.640] But it is still comic Superman is a very weird place.
[00:20:01.640 --> 00:20:08.280] And it has to be because otherwise, you've got an infinitely powerful guy just knocking about, what, Earth, stopping robberies?
[00:20:08.280 --> 00:20:08.520] Yeah.
[00:20:09.480 --> 00:20:11.960] Mixus Pitlick, by the way, came in in 1944.
[00:20:11.960 --> 00:20:13.640] So way earlier than I thought.
[00:20:13.640 --> 00:20:14.040] Yeah.
[00:20:14.040 --> 00:20:16.200] At the end of the Second World War, A.
[00:20:16.200 --> 00:20:22.120] So year before 1938, Superman comes out, the Nazis rise to power.
[00:20:22.120 --> 00:20:25.240] 1944, Mixix Pitlick comes into comics.
[00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:27.320] The Nazis are defeated a year later.
[00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:29.560] We'll come back to the Second World War later.
[00:20:30.120 --> 00:20:38.680] So Shapiro seems fixated on this idea of Superman being this piece of culturally important Americana when, in fact, it's a daft story about a flying magic man.
[00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:39.080] Yes.
[00:20:39.080 --> 00:20:40.840] And that's all it needs to be.
[00:20:40.840 --> 00:20:50.600] The fact that Shapiro only seems to be familiar with overly serious and po-faced interpretations of the character that we've seen in movies just shows his lack of cultural awareness around the character.
[00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:55.640] The 2025 movie Superman is an adaptation of the comic book.
[00:20:55.640 --> 00:20:58.040] It is not a remake of the Christopher Refilm.
[00:20:58.120 --> 00:20:58.760] Yeah, yeah.
[00:20:59.720 --> 00:21:01.000] But Shapiro goes on.
[00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:06.680] He says, at the very beginning of the movie, you are told that Superman is the most powerful meta-human.
[00:21:06.680 --> 00:21:11.240] Like, there's a placard that says, 30 years ago, and he's right about this.
[00:21:11.240 --> 00:21:11.640] This is true.
[00:21:11.640 --> 00:21:12.440] This happened in the film.
[00:21:12.440 --> 00:21:14.200] There's a caption that comes up on screen.
[00:21:14.200 --> 00:21:17.520] It says, 30 years ago, the meta-humans arrived.
[00:21:17.520 --> 00:21:19.840] Three years ago, Superman emerged.
[00:21:14.760 --> 00:21:21.760] Three weeks ago, there was an invasion.
[00:21:22.080 --> 00:21:25.200] And three minutes ago, Superman got his ass kicked.
[00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:27.040] It doesn't say Superman's got his ass kicked.
[00:21:27.040 --> 00:21:28.720] That's Shapiro's version of it.
[00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:31.760] What it says is Superman loses a fight for the first time.
[00:21:31.760 --> 00:21:32.880] Okay, okay, there's your framing.
[00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:33.760] That's a solid framing.
[00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:35.040] That's the opening of the film.
[00:21:35.040 --> 00:21:37.760] Superman's lost a fight for the first time in his life.
[00:21:37.760 --> 00:21:39.040] Shapiro goes on.
[00:21:39.040 --> 00:21:40.400] He's not very super.
[00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:41.920] He's not the man of steel.
[00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:43.360] He's not invulnerable.
[00:21:43.360 --> 00:21:45.600] He gets his ass kicked routinely.
[00:21:45.600 --> 00:21:47.840] Does he know that steel is vulnerable?
[00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:50.560] Well, famously, Jet Fuel can't touch it.
[00:21:51.120 --> 00:21:51.760] Can't melt it.
[00:21:51.760 --> 00:21:53.440] Can't get anywhere near it.
[00:21:53.440 --> 00:22:00.080] But if Ben Shapiro had paid closer attention to the film, and there's spoilers coming up here, folks, fair warning if you care about that.
[00:22:00.080 --> 00:22:08.960] If Shapiro paid closer attention to the film, he would have noticed that in this opening caption about Superman losing a fight, it's very clear that it's the first time this has ever happened.
[00:22:08.960 --> 00:22:10.320] Yes, and to a meta-human.
[00:22:10.320 --> 00:22:12.560] Yeah, and this is a surprise.
[00:22:12.560 --> 00:22:17.840] This is something that Superman was not expecting to have happened because he doesn't normally lose a fight.
[00:22:17.840 --> 00:22:21.840] It's never happened to him before because he is the most powerful meta-human.
[00:22:21.840 --> 00:22:29.520] Mike, are you going to be doing that thing where you see Ben Shapiro in a Superman t-shirt and say, oh, you're big Superman Fen?
[00:22:29.520 --> 00:22:30.240] Yeah, name three.
[00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:33.680] You're gatekeeping Superman.
[00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:36.000] Having never read Superman.
[00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:44.880] Now, part of this, of making Superman more vulnerable, is about how interesting it is telling stories about all powerful characters or not interesting, as it were.
[00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:46.400] But spoilers incoming.
[00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:53.440] It is also clear in the film, spoilers, that the fight Superman loses is to a clone of himself.
[00:22:53.480 --> 00:23:11.160] Oh, so he is fighting a clone of Superman that Lex Luthor makes, and he loses to that clone, not because the clone is more powerful than he is, but because Lex Luthor is predicting what Superman's next move is going to be and telling the clone how to counter it.
[00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:13.320] Because Lex Luther is meant to be super smart.
[00:23:13.480 --> 00:23:14.920] Lex Luther is the cleverest man in the world.
[00:23:14.920 --> 00:23:17.080] So he's just being out tactic.
[00:23:17.080 --> 00:23:19.240] So he's got a remote control Superman.
[00:23:19.240 --> 00:23:20.120] Basically, yeah.
[00:23:20.120 --> 00:23:26.280] Yeah, this remote control Superman, who I think they're going to turn into Bizarro in a future film, to be honest, because in the film he gets sucked into a black hole.
[00:23:26.600 --> 00:23:29.000] So he doesn't like think and plan these moves for himself.
[00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:32.040] He's told by Lex Luthor, do this, punch that one.
[00:23:32.280 --> 00:23:38.120] That feels like that would be less efficient as a fighting machine because there's going to be a lag.
[00:23:38.360 --> 00:23:40.040] I don't care how good your connection is.
[00:23:41.080 --> 00:23:42.360] He's going to be on 5G.
[00:23:42.360 --> 00:23:43.720] You're still going to have a slight delay.
[00:23:43.720 --> 00:23:45.960] And then he's going to interpret what you're seeing.
[00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:46.760] Yeah.
[00:23:47.080 --> 00:23:48.920] So yes, Superman does get his ass kicked.
[00:23:49.160 --> 00:23:51.080] Be a fucking boring movie if he doesn't.
[00:23:51.080 --> 00:23:51.480] Yeah.
[00:23:51.480 --> 00:23:53.160] Because there will be no jeopardy and no danger.
[00:23:53.160 --> 00:24:05.560] I would also point out that Superman loses fights in the 1978 Superman, in Superman 2, in Superman 3, in Superman 4, in Superman Returns, in Man of Steel, and in Batman V Superman, where he literally dies.
[00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:24.040] In fact, the only movie that I can think of where Superman doesn't lose a fight is in Justice League, where he shows up in the last 10 minutes, having recovered his memories, and then easily beats the villain that everyone else has been struggling with for the last two hours, which pretty effectively demonstrates why having such a powerful character is dramatically uninteresting.
[00:24:24.040 --> 00:24:26.600] Yeah, any big, powerful character, you've got to nerf them constantly.
[00:24:26.600 --> 00:24:31.640] It's why Professor X is constantly being either killed or kidnapped in X-Men.
[00:24:31.640 --> 00:24:32.600] Because if he's there...
[00:24:32.760 --> 00:24:35.880] To the point where comics fans refer to it as being Professor X.
[00:24:36.040 --> 00:24:36.760] Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[00:24:37.080 --> 00:24:40.280] You just take out the character that can solve the problem early doors.
[00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:42.040] Oh, Civil War.
[00:24:42.040 --> 00:24:43.960] Let's throw the Hulk into the sun.
[00:24:43.960 --> 00:24:47.680] Because otherwise, if Hulk's knocking around during Civil War, that's going to be a real issue.
[00:24:47.680 --> 00:24:48.880] Shapiro isn't done, though.
[00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:49.520] He goes on.
[00:24:44.920 --> 00:24:51.120] Superman's parents are from Krypton.
[00:24:51.200 --> 00:24:58.640] If you're going to go through the mythology, they send him to Earth so he can be a moral guide for the people on Earth using his great powers to stop evil from happening to them.
[00:24:58.640 --> 00:24:59.760] No, that's not true.
[00:24:59.760 --> 00:25:00.800] That is not true.
[00:25:00.800 --> 00:25:03.760] They whack him in a capsule because Krypton's about to explode.
[00:25:03.760 --> 00:25:06.240] They just pop him out there and then he goes and lands somewhere.
[00:25:06.240 --> 00:25:07.440] Like this was in the Chris Rewan.
[00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:08.480] I don't know if this is in the comic books.
[00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:12.560] They didn't know he was going to be super powerful because they're not super powerful on Krypton.
[00:25:12.560 --> 00:25:14.720] It's the colour of the sun that makes him more powerful.
[00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:15.280] Indeed, yeah.
[00:25:15.840 --> 00:25:19.040] That yellow sun makes it gives him all his powers.
[00:25:19.040 --> 00:25:20.480] You're mostly right with that, Marsh.
[00:25:20.560 --> 00:25:22.080] What Shapiro says here is just not true.
[00:25:22.080 --> 00:25:26.400] Superman's parents, Jorrell and Lara L, send Superman to Earth.
[00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:28.960] They do specifically pick out Earth as the place to shoot him to.
[00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:29.840] Marlon Brando.
[00:25:29.840 --> 00:25:31.760] What's his birth name and does it end with an L?
[00:25:31.760 --> 00:25:32.160] Yes, it does.
[00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:32.640] Cal El.
[00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:33.920] It's Cal El is his name.
[00:25:34.560 --> 00:25:36.080] He never goes by Cal.
[00:25:36.080 --> 00:25:36.480] No.
[00:25:36.800 --> 00:25:37.840] K-Dog.
[00:25:37.840 --> 00:25:44.400] They send him to Earth because Earth has a suitable atmosphere and because the Yellow Sun will give him superpowers which will help him survive.
[00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:44.720] Okay.
[00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:45.600] That is why they do that.
[00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:47.440] They know about the superpowers.
[00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:49.120] It's because it has a suitable atmosphere.
[00:25:49.120 --> 00:25:49.520] Yes.
[00:25:49.520 --> 00:25:51.440] He can fly around in space.
[00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:55.200] Not since John Byrne rewrote him in the 80s.
[00:25:55.200 --> 00:25:56.640] Okay, that makes more sense.
[00:25:56.640 --> 00:25:58.560] And in fact, not in the new film either.
[00:25:59.040 --> 00:26:01.280] He can suffocate in the new film as well.
[00:26:01.600 --> 00:26:08.800] But do you want to know what was the first version of Superman where it is claimed that he was sent to Earth to morally guide the human race?
[00:26:08.800 --> 00:26:09.440] No.
[00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:10.320] No, no, no, no, no.
[00:26:11.600 --> 00:26:12.480] Yeah, go on.
[00:26:12.480 --> 00:26:13.920] It was the Chris Reed version.
[00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:18.880] It was the first time that it was mentioned that Superman was here to morally guide the human race.
[00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:22.000] And was it then mentioned subsequently?
[00:26:21.960 --> 00:26:25.520] Like, was that just a blip, or was that the story for a bit?
[00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:31.080] That was the story for a bit in the way that often if the movie is big, they'll incorporate bits of it into the comic.
[00:26:29.840 --> 00:26:34.280] Like, for a while, Batman looked like Michael Keaton in the early 90s.
[00:26:34.360 --> 00:26:37.880] Did she just kind of look like Michael Keaton for a bit in the comics?
[00:26:37.880 --> 00:26:46.520] But yeah, it was 1978 Superman, which Shapiro consistently treats as if it is the original canonical version, rather than it being in the comic books.
[00:26:46.520 --> 00:26:53.320] And he is attacking the 2025 film for not following the mythology by comparing it to the 1978 film, which did not follow the mythology.
[00:26:53.320 --> 00:26:54.200] It's just the one he's heard.
[00:26:54.280 --> 00:26:56.360] It's just the one that he's seen.
[00:26:56.680 --> 00:26:59.960] He also talks about Superman's earth parents.
[00:27:00.280 --> 00:27:01.080] Martha.
[00:27:01.080 --> 00:27:03.800] Yeah, Martha and Jonathan Kent, they're named.
[00:27:03.800 --> 00:27:08.120] So just for Alice's benefit, who knows nothing about Superman, Superman crashes as a baby.
[00:27:08.120 --> 00:27:12.120] He's found by two farmers from Kansas who raise him as their own.
[00:27:12.120 --> 00:27:12.600] That's it.
[00:27:12.600 --> 00:27:16.920] And they're nice, homely farmers called Mar and Parr Kent or Jonathan and Martha Kent.
[00:27:17.240 --> 00:27:19.160] And he lifts up like trucks and stuff as a kid.
[00:27:19.400 --> 00:27:20.520] Oh, this one's a bit weird.
[00:27:21.800 --> 00:27:23.960] So his parents, this is from Shapiro.
[00:27:23.960 --> 00:27:26.200] Did his parents give him the fake glasses?
[00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:29.960] No, I think he does the glasses himself when he moves to Metropolis.
[00:27:29.960 --> 00:27:30.280] Okay.
[00:27:30.280 --> 00:27:33.000] Because when he goes back to Smallville, he doesn't wear the glasses.
[00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:33.480] Right.
[00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:35.320] Does he know his history?
[00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:36.360] Yes.
[00:27:36.360 --> 00:27:37.080] How?
[00:27:37.080 --> 00:27:39.160] Because in this 23andMe.
[00:27:39.480 --> 00:27:51.640] The spaceship he crashed in had a data crystal in it that he uses to make a in the North Pole where he gets a hologram message from his dad that explains everything.
[00:27:51.640 --> 00:27:52.840] And his dad's Marlon Brandon.
[00:27:53.000 --> 00:27:53.880] And his dad's Marlon Brandon.
[00:27:54.120 --> 00:28:06.680] So him, his parents, his Earth parents, and then he recognised that this crystal was worth protecting and saving, and yeah, yeah, this was like the 80s, 70s, 80s, so it's the height of Crystal Womb.
[00:28:08.600 --> 00:28:16.800] So, Shapiro and the S was like the symbol on the cloak he was wrapped in, a bit like Moses.
[00:28:14.840 --> 00:28:17.840] Yeah, he's wrapped in little clothes.
[00:28:19.360 --> 00:28:20.640] What was the S stood for?
[00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:23.440] It was the family crest of the House of L.
[00:28:23.760 --> 00:28:25.840] It wasn't an S.
[00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:28.400] It's not an S, it just looks like an S.
[00:28:28.400 --> 00:28:31.440] Because obviously, they didn't write in English on Krypton.
[00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:38.640] I think in Man of Steel, they say it's the Krypton word for hope or the Krypton symbol for hope or something like that.
[00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:47.440] So, sorry, Ben Shapiro, he says Superman's parents, Mara and Parkent, in the original version, they are noble and they are wise.
[00:28:47.440 --> 00:29:04.160] They're kind of salt of the earth, but here they're basically kind of, I don't know, like they're kind of crappy and they live in a kind of crappy house, and they're the kind of folks who are sitting around scratching their butts and they purposefully cast them as ugly and non-noble.
[00:29:04.160 --> 00:29:06.000] Non-noble, non-noble.
[00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:08.720] How do you deliberately cast somebody as not noble?
[00:29:08.800 --> 00:29:12.240] I need an actor who is not noble, who is not noble, hero nobility.
[00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:14.480] Is he saying noble in the sense of nobility?
[00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:15.840] I think he is, yeah.
[00:29:15.840 --> 00:29:19.760] But they weren't then, they were just Kansas farmers, basically, weren't they?
[00:29:19.760 --> 00:29:27.520] Yes, yeah, I guess he means noblers in like equating it with morality and being like good people.
[00:29:27.520 --> 00:29:29.200] Are they bad people in the new film?
[00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:30.480] They're not bad people in the new film.
[00:29:30.560 --> 00:29:37.280] I thought this was a particularly revealing comment because in Superman Law, Superman was raised by the Kents in Smallville, in Kansas.
[00:29:37.280 --> 00:29:43.360] But the new film, the recent film, is the first version where they've actually given them Kansas accents.
[00:29:44.320 --> 00:29:51.440] So he's just gone, oh, they sound like yokels, so they can't possibly be good people or be being portrayed as good people.
[00:29:51.840 --> 00:29:53.440] I genuinely think it is that simple.
[00:29:53.440 --> 00:30:00.360] For the first time, they look and sound like people who live and work on a farm in Kansas because they live and work on a farm in Kansas.
[00:29:59.600 --> 00:30:03.160] And does the farm in Kansas look like a farm in Kansas?
[00:30:03.160 --> 00:30:03.480] Yes.
[00:29:59.840 --> 00:30:04.600] Yeah, that'll be it then.
[00:30:04.760 --> 00:30:09.720] Jonathan Kent does not look like Kevin Costner, which is who played him in Man of Steel.
[00:30:09.720 --> 00:30:11.320] He looks like a farmer from Kansas.
[00:30:11.560 --> 00:30:12.600] Kansas, Kansas, yeah.
[00:30:12.600 --> 00:30:16.600] You know, they aren't played especially non-nobly, I suppose.
[00:30:16.600 --> 00:30:19.240] They're played as a pair of pensioners.
[00:30:19.240 --> 00:30:20.280] Down to earth, yeah.
[00:30:20.280 --> 00:30:23.240] Yeah, because they're a pair of pensioners.
[00:30:23.240 --> 00:30:28.440] So Martha Kent is a bit awkward using her phone, for example, in a way that many pensioners would be.
[00:30:28.440 --> 00:30:35.640] But far from sitting around and scratching their butts, the scene in the film where Superman visits his parents is a major emotional beat in the film.
[00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:39.560] And it's where they are shown to be loving and kind parents.
[00:30:39.560 --> 00:30:44.920] And Superman's father reminds him that it is your actions and your choices that make you who you are.
[00:30:44.920 --> 00:30:50.840] And they're both shown as comforting Clark as he lies in bed and he's struggling because he's had his ass kicked.
[00:30:50.840 --> 00:30:57.400] And they're just not portrayed as Hollywood ideals of rural Midwesterners.
[00:30:57.720 --> 00:30:59.640] They're played as rural Midwesterners.
[00:30:59.800 --> 00:31:02.680] Yeah, it's not Kevin Costner from like Field of Dreams.
[00:31:02.680 --> 00:31:03.400] Yeah, yeah.
[00:31:03.400 --> 00:31:03.880] Yeah.
[00:31:04.200 --> 00:31:08.840] Shapiro goes on, he says, by the way, both of them are alive in this, right?
[00:31:08.840 --> 00:31:15.000] And in the original Superman mythos, Par Kent dies, and that's what sends Superman off on his journey.
[00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:16.680] No, he's thinking of Uncle Ben.
[00:31:16.840 --> 00:31:17.800] The guy did the rice.
[00:31:18.200 --> 00:31:18.760] The rice guy.
[00:31:19.320 --> 00:31:20.760] No, that's all bollocks.
[00:31:20.760 --> 00:31:23.640] The death of Jonathan Kent does appear in many Superman stories.
[00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:26.680] This does happen, notably in the Christopher Reed version.
[00:31:26.680 --> 00:31:35.880] In the Christopher Reed version, Jonathan Kent dies of a heart attack, and that moment makes Superman realize that, even for all of his powers, he still can't save everyone.
[00:31:35.880 --> 00:31:37.480] And that's a big turning point for the character.
[00:31:37.720 --> 00:31:44.880] Yeah, and he's got to be Kevin as well because Supermen actually, they get diagnosed from heart attacks from very different systems, and it's a real problem.
[00:31:44.760 --> 00:31:46.800] Very, very, very, very, very, very surgery.
[00:31:47.360 --> 00:31:52.800] So, it is sometimes a motivating factor in the Superman story of his father dies.
[00:31:52.800 --> 00:31:54.880] They did that in Man of Steel as well.
[00:31:55.040 --> 00:32:04.640] It's weird when they do it in Man of Steel because, as I say, in Superman 1978, Jonathan Kent dies of a heart attack, and there's nothing that Superman could have done about that, right?
[00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:08.560] You know, I suppose you could give him a super defibrillator.
[00:32:08.560 --> 00:32:09.200] I don't know.
[00:32:09.280 --> 00:32:11.440] Blue laser to put his heart back together, like the Great Wall of China.
[00:32:11.520 --> 00:32:12.720] Like the Great Wall of China.
[00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:16.880] But that's a point of Superman realizing for all his power, he can't save everyone.
[00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:20.000] In Man of Steel, his dad dies in a tornado.
[00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:21.360] He could definitely have saved him from that.
[00:32:22.080 --> 00:32:22.880] He definitely could have.
[00:32:23.600 --> 00:32:25.360] But his dad goes, No, don't save me.
[00:32:25.360 --> 00:32:26.240] Just let me die.
[00:32:26.560 --> 00:32:27.040] And he does.
[00:32:27.040 --> 00:32:28.800] And it's like, why?
[00:32:29.120 --> 00:32:30.080] Why?
[00:32:30.080 --> 00:32:31.440] Why did you do that?
[00:32:31.840 --> 00:32:33.280] I could just have saved you.
[00:32:33.280 --> 00:32:37.120] Do you think it was like a suicide by cop, but suicide by tornado kind of thing?
[00:32:37.120 --> 00:32:37.760] Like, he was.
[00:32:39.120 --> 00:32:43.200] So, yeah, the motivation wasn't original to the Christopher E films.
[00:32:43.760 --> 00:32:46.400] It is portrayed in origin stories in the comic books as well.
[00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:52.080] But also in the comic books, Superman is portrayed as having been superboy when he was a teenager.
[00:32:52.080 --> 00:32:57.040] So he was already going around doing super stuff before his dad died and being a hero.
[00:32:57.040 --> 00:33:00.800] That was never the motivating factor that made him become a hero.
[00:33:00.800 --> 00:33:08.160] And when Superman was rebooted in the 1980s after Crisis on Infinite Earths, the death of Jonathan Kent was removed in that version of the story.
[00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:14.160] And notably, for fans of the TV Superman, the Dean Kane version, both his parents are alive all the way through that.
[00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:16.280] They turn up regularly in the show.
[00:33:16.080 --> 00:33:16.600] Yeah.
[00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:19.760] Dean Kane, probably a topic for another day.
[00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:22.720] But Shapiro's review continues in this pattern.
[00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:31.800] He cites something and says it's not what's in the original, but it's because he's using the 78 version as the original and not anything from the previous 40 years.
[00:33:32.120 --> 00:33:33.080] Not the comics.
[00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:36.520] He complains that Crypto, the super dog, is a very badly behaved dog.
[00:33:36.840 --> 00:33:38.600] He is a very badly behaved dog.
[00:33:38.600 --> 00:33:40.680] Badly behaved dog in the comics as well.
[00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:43.720] In the comics, he's more intelligent than an ordinary dog.
[00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:45.240] Why?
[00:33:45.240 --> 00:33:46.120] Where does he come from?
[00:33:46.120 --> 00:33:47.160] He is a Krypton dog.
[00:33:47.160 --> 00:33:48.520] He is a pet dog from Krypton.
[00:33:48.520 --> 00:33:49.400] How did he get there?
[00:33:49.400 --> 00:33:54.520] In the film, he's Supergirl's dog because she comes from a different bit of the Krypton Empire.
[00:33:54.520 --> 00:33:54.920] Okay.
[00:33:54.920 --> 00:33:57.320] I think she comes from a city in a bottle, actually, in the comics.
[00:33:59.960 --> 00:34:00.840] It doesn't matter.
[00:34:02.120 --> 00:34:07.160] But Krypto in the comics is described as having the normal urges of a dog, except he's super.
[00:34:07.160 --> 00:34:11.560] So instead of chasing cars, he chases planes because he's super fly.
[00:34:11.560 --> 00:34:11.800] Right.
[00:34:11.800 --> 00:34:16.120] When he said the normal urge of the dog, I thought it was alluding to like humping cushions.
[00:34:16.120 --> 00:34:18.120] Yeah, he doesn't hump the fire hydrant.
[00:34:18.120 --> 00:34:20.680] He humps the fucking Empire State Building.
[00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:21.880] The fire engine.
[00:34:23.800 --> 00:34:29.240] Shapiro also complains that Supergirl, who makes a very brief cameo in the film, is a drunken teenage brat.
[00:34:29.560 --> 00:34:35.800] He says, anything that you think you know about the Superman universe, James Gunn is determined to debunk it.
[00:34:36.120 --> 00:34:44.920] Except in the comics, Supergirl is usually portrayed as an impulsive, bad-tempered, bratty, prone to making bad decisions because she is young and inexperienced.
[00:34:44.920 --> 00:34:49.240] And she is specifically portrayed as a drunken teenage brat in some comics.
[00:34:49.240 --> 00:34:53.400] Although, in fairness to Ben Shapiro, the first time that happened was in 2004.
[00:34:53.400 --> 00:34:57.160] And we know superheroes for Ben Shapiro exist only in 1978.
[00:34:57.320 --> 00:34:58.040] Yes.
[00:34:58.360 --> 00:34:58.920] So presumably.
[00:35:00.040 --> 00:35:06.680] That kind of character is needed for a character like Superman, who is has been portrayed as that moralistic perspective.
[00:35:06.840 --> 00:35:09.080] Like, you need somebody to counter that.
[00:35:09.080 --> 00:35:10.840] Otherwise, it's just going to be really boring.
[00:35:11.160 --> 00:35:14.600] If she's just Superman in a mini skirt, well, what's the fucking point?
[00:35:14.720 --> 00:35:17.040] Yeah, you know, you need to have something different to do with the character.
[00:35:14.840 --> 00:35:21.920] The only point of it is the mini skirt, essentially, is why you've come up with that character.
[00:35:22.240 --> 00:35:29.280] And Ben Shapiro refers to this film as debunking elements of the Superman story when actually what the film is doing is comic accurate.
[00:35:30.080 --> 00:35:31.760] He says, This is my favorite bit.
[00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:36.240] He says, I think it is a betrayal of the original IP and is mildly upsetting.
[00:35:36.240 --> 00:35:38.480] Not very upsetting, but mildly upsetting.
[00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:39.680] It's 20 minutes upsetting.
[00:35:39.680 --> 00:35:43.680] It's not like a half an hour video upsetting, but it's a good 20-minute rant upsetting.
[00:35:43.680 --> 00:35:54.080] And he makes this comment, fully not grasping that this film is a far more faithful adaptation of the original IP than the 1978 movie that he is putting on a pedestal.
[00:35:54.080 --> 00:36:02.000] You may as well complain that the Globe production of Romeo and Juliet is not faithful to the original because they took all the songs from West Side Story out of it.
[00:36:03.520 --> 00:36:04.320] What's the point then?
[00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:05.520] They were going to take the songs out.
[00:36:05.520 --> 00:36:07.360] Yeah, they were using swords rather than guns.
[00:36:07.360 --> 00:36:08.880] This is nothing like the original.
[00:36:10.400 --> 00:36:18.480] He also has some very specific comments about the plot of the film, which I think demonstrate that either he wasn't paying attention or he's being deliberately disingenuous.
[00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:20.720] I'll leave you to make up your own mind as to which.
[00:36:20.720 --> 00:36:29.760] He complains that Lex Luthor's motivation in the film is boring because it comes down to Superman is strong, but I am smart, so why do people like him better?
[00:36:30.080 --> 00:36:34.080] But this is a fully comics accurate motivation for Lex Luther.
[00:36:34.080 --> 00:36:41.040] Except actually, in the original original comics, Lex Luthor originally appeared in a Superboy comic before he became a Superman villain.
[00:36:41.040 --> 00:36:41.520] Okay.
[00:36:41.520 --> 00:36:50.240] In Super Boy, the reason that Lex hates Superman is because they're doing an experiment in a lab, and the lab catches fire.
[00:36:50.240 --> 00:36:55.280] And Superman blows the fire, well, or Super Boy blows the fire out with his Super Breath.
[00:36:55.280 --> 00:36:57.680] And that blows all of Lex's hair off.
[00:36:57.680 --> 00:37:01.640] And Lex is upset about this because it never grows back, and that's why he hates Superman.
[00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:03.800] God, that is so fucking stupid.
[00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:07.720] That is genuinely the canonical reason for their animosity.
[00:37:08.280 --> 00:37:09.880] That's 1938, though, isn't it?
[00:37:09.880 --> 00:37:11.080] Because this is going to be way back.
[00:37:11.080 --> 00:37:11.720] Yeah, it's way back.
[00:37:11.800 --> 00:37:14.120] It wasn't 38, but it would have been like 50s.
[00:37:14.120 --> 00:37:18.840] It would have been, you know, very old version of the story when they were much more, much more childish.
[00:37:18.840 --> 00:37:22.200] They've since retconned that, and it is about jealousy.
[00:37:22.200 --> 00:37:26.280] It's like he has all of this power and it gives him all of this respect.
[00:37:26.280 --> 00:37:27.960] And why don't I get that respect?
[00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:30.120] Very much a comics-accurate motivation.
[00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:39.240] And we could argue that that motivation might be comics accurate, but it's not the kind of motivation that anyone would have in real life except literally Elon Musk.
[00:37:39.240 --> 00:37:41.160] Yes, literally Elon Musk.
[00:37:41.480 --> 00:37:45.880] So, boring a motivation or not, it is comics accurate to the lore of Superman.
[00:37:45.880 --> 00:37:59.320] He also criticizes a specific part of the plot where we find out that Lex Luthor has done a deal with a foreign dictator who is going to annex another country if Lex can get Superman out of the way and then give Lex half of that country.
[00:37:59.320 --> 00:38:05.560] And Shapiro is critical of this, saying, Why does Lex Luthor care so much about this relatively small plot of land?
[00:38:05.560 --> 00:38:08.520] And this misses two important points.
[00:38:08.520 --> 00:38:14.680] First, in the 1978 film, Gene Hackman's version of Lex Luthor is all about fucking real estate.
[00:38:14.680 --> 00:38:15.160] Yes, he is.
[00:38:15.160 --> 00:38:18.440] He tries to like flood parts of California to make a new beachfront.
[00:38:18.440 --> 00:38:18.680] Yes.
[00:38:18.680 --> 00:38:19.160] Yes.
[00:38:19.480 --> 00:38:21.720] To sell new beachfront property.
[00:38:21.720 --> 00:38:25.240] Land ownership is a very common motivation for Lex Luthor.
[00:38:25.240 --> 00:38:31.800] The Kevin Spacey version of Lex Luthor also is all about fucking real estate and selling real estate and selling property.
[00:38:31.800 --> 00:38:33.320] It's all about land ownership.
[00:38:33.320 --> 00:38:37.400] Ironically, then, Kevin Spacey's crimes were worse than Lex Luthor's.
[00:38:38.640 --> 00:38:39.800] Because ironically enough.
[00:38:40.120 --> 00:38:42.760] Lex Luthor, all he's doing is dodgy real estate deals.
[00:38:42.760 --> 00:38:45.000] Like, Lex Luthor would look down on Kevin Spacey.
[00:38:46.960 --> 00:39:01.600] But beyond the fact that real estate is a very common motivation for Lex Luthor, even in the film that Ben Shapiro holds up as the archetypal perfect version of Superman, in the new movie, Lex comments to Superman, I don't want to kill you so I can start the war.
[00:39:01.600 --> 00:39:04.080] I started this war so I can kill you.
[00:39:04.400 --> 00:39:10.480] Killing Superman is Lex's motivation, and everything else is a means to that end.
[00:39:11.040 --> 00:39:13.440] He's got that completely backwards.
[00:39:13.440 --> 00:39:20.720] And Shapiro knows that he's got that backwards because he references that line, but then still complains, well, why is Lex care about this small plot?
[00:39:20.720 --> 00:39:23.040] He doesn't care about this small plot of land.
[00:39:23.040 --> 00:39:24.640] He cares about killing Superman.
[00:39:24.640 --> 00:39:32.080] The deal with the dictator was just an excuse to get the government on side to let him kill Superman with impunity.
[00:39:32.400 --> 00:39:35.440] And the film is very clear on that point.
[00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:42.640] He complains about the scenes where Superman catches a falling building to prevent it landing on somebody, or in one case, landing on a squirrel.
[00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:48.320] And Shapiro says, except those buildings are full of people who are all dead now.
[00:39:48.640 --> 00:39:48.960] What?
[00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:53.280] But if he couldn't stop it falling, he could only stop it killing also the squirrel.
[00:39:53.440 --> 00:39:54.400] I mean, that's true.
[00:39:54.400 --> 00:39:56.000] I haven't seen the film, so I don't know if that's...
[00:39:56.320 --> 00:39:58.160] No, you're quite right.
[00:39:58.160 --> 00:40:05.360] You know, if he's going to stop it, he can't save everyone in the building, but he can save somebody if he catches the building, so it doesn't land on them, whatever.
[00:40:05.360 --> 00:40:08.800] Well, Shapiro misses, and he has seen the film, notionally, so...
[00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:10.320] Is that it's a direct building?
[00:40:10.320 --> 00:40:11.280] It's an empty building.
[00:40:11.280 --> 00:40:12.800] They've evacuated the city.
[00:40:12.800 --> 00:40:14.320] The whole city has been evacuated.
[00:40:14.320 --> 00:40:15.360] The buildings are all empty.
[00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:17.680] But he wasn't paying attention to that bit, apparently.
[00:40:17.680 --> 00:40:22.240] He complains about another scene where Superman and Lois Lane are having a big, deep emotional conversation.
[00:40:22.240 --> 00:40:30.680] And in the background behind them, you can see other superheroes fighting off an attack from an interdimensional imp that has decided to attack the city.
[00:40:30.680 --> 00:40:35.160] And Superman ignores this completely and lets the other heroes get on with fighting the imp.
[00:40:29.840 --> 00:40:36.840] And Shapiro doesn't like this at all.
[00:40:37.080 --> 00:40:40.040] He says, shouldn't Superman be doing something about it?
[00:40:40.040 --> 00:40:40.840] No, no, no.
[00:40:40.840 --> 00:40:42.840] He says, just let them handle it.
[00:40:42.840 --> 00:40:45.720] Again, that's kind of irritating.
[00:40:45.720 --> 00:40:49.160] Which is entirely missing the point once again.
[00:40:49.160 --> 00:40:55.880] Because in other versions of Superman, notably the Christopher Reeve version, he's the only superhero in the world.
[00:40:55.880 --> 00:40:56.280] Yeah.
[00:40:56.280 --> 00:40:59.800] In this version of Superman, superheroes are everywhere.
[00:40:59.800 --> 00:41:03.400] In this film, we've got Hawk Girl and Green Lantern and Mr.
[00:41:03.400 --> 00:41:05.880] Terrific and Supergirl and all these characters in the world.
[00:41:06.040 --> 00:41:06.680] All the big names.
[00:41:07.240 --> 00:41:10.200] It's a world stuffed full with superheroes.
[00:41:10.200 --> 00:41:12.760] Yes, all the characters you grew up loving.
[00:41:12.760 --> 00:41:13.720] Hawk Girl.
[00:41:13.720 --> 00:41:14.760] Hawk Girl's brilliant.
[00:41:14.760 --> 00:41:16.680] Didn't she get that crypto coin?
[00:41:16.680 --> 00:41:18.760] And then she disappeared.
[00:41:19.400 --> 00:41:24.600] But Superman is ignoring the attack from the interdimensional creature because it's just another Tuesday.
[00:41:25.640 --> 00:41:27.560] This is a weird, fantastical world.
[00:41:27.960 --> 00:41:29.480] You respect your co-workers.
[00:41:29.480 --> 00:41:30.200] You let them flow.
[00:41:31.080 --> 00:41:31.400] Yeah.
[00:41:31.560 --> 00:41:34.920] It's a weird, fantastical world where Metropolis is getting attacked by monsters.
[00:41:35.320 --> 00:41:40.280] There's characters watching it, filming on their phones, eating ice cream while the attack is going on.
[00:41:40.280 --> 00:41:43.720] Because even for the citizens of Metropolis, it's just, oh, fucking again.
[00:41:43.720 --> 00:41:45.320] Because it's a weird superhero world.
[00:41:45.320 --> 00:41:46.680] Yeah, like traffic.
[00:41:46.680 --> 00:41:48.520] And the superheroes are just dealing with it.
[00:41:48.520 --> 00:41:52.920] Christopher Reeve, ignoring attack from an interdimensional imp would be negligent.
[00:41:52.920 --> 00:41:54.920] Well, because he's Superman.
[00:41:55.240 --> 00:41:58.280] I think just Christopher Reeve ignoring it would be fine.
[00:41:58.360 --> 00:41:58.920] Still negligent.
[00:41:59.080 --> 00:42:00.360] Would have been fine.
[00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:05.240] That Superman ignoring that attack would be negligent because he is the only person who could help.
[00:42:05.240 --> 00:42:10.200] In a world full of superheroes, it is fucking mundane that this attack is happening and nobody should care.
[00:42:10.200 --> 00:42:12.920] And obviously, Superman's going to go, I'm in the middle of something now.
[00:42:12.920 --> 00:42:13.640] It's in hand.
[00:42:13.640 --> 00:42:14.760] I don't need to worry about it.
[00:42:15.920 --> 00:42:25.200] Anyway, the last point that I want to get to on this, and returning to Ben Shapiro's obsession with Superman as some sort of American archetype, he says.
[00:42:25.520 --> 00:42:32.320] The fundamental flaw in all Superman movies in my lifetime is this thing that Hollywood cannot say and will not do.
[00:42:32.320 --> 00:42:33.760] Politics.
[00:42:33.760 --> 00:42:37.600] Does he still stand for truth, justice, and all that stuff?
[00:42:37.600 --> 00:42:45.520] The only Superman movie I have ever seen that uses truth, justice, and the American way is the original 1978 Superman.
[00:42:45.520 --> 00:42:47.600] This is not just a throwaway line.
[00:42:47.600 --> 00:42:51.280] It is deeply important to the character of Superman.
[00:42:51.920 --> 00:42:52.960] Let me guess.
[00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:53.680] It isn't.
[00:42:53.680 --> 00:42:54.800] Yeah, it's not.
[00:42:55.120 --> 00:42:56.480] It's definitely not.
[00:42:56.960 --> 00:43:02.640] I mean, if we have In God We Trust on our money, then we need the American way in our Superman.
[00:43:02.640 --> 00:43:03.280] Yeah.
[00:43:03.600 --> 00:43:17.520] So just looking at the history of it, the first use of the phrase truth, justice, in the American Way with reference to Superman came from a radio adaptation of Superman, so not in the comics, a radio adaptation of Superman called The Adventures of Superman.
[00:43:17.520 --> 00:43:23.440] And in this radio adaptation, the narrator says, Superman fights for truth, justice, in the American way.
[00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:27.680] Yeah, and this was the radio adaptation, I think, where's Superman play by Bob Holness?
[00:43:30.800 --> 00:43:39.840] Notably, this radio play about Superman was broadcast during the Second World War, where this was very much a piece of wartime propaganda.
[00:43:40.240 --> 00:43:47.120] That's why Superman was suddenly fighting for the American way, is this was 1942, and we're fighting Hitler.
[00:43:47.120 --> 00:43:48.960] In God we trust.
[00:43:49.280 --> 00:43:54.800] The phrase was dropped from the radio show at the end of the war.
[00:43:55.120 --> 00:43:58.640] When the war finished, they stopped saying truth, justice, in the American way.
[00:43:58.640 --> 00:44:08.280] It makes a comeback in the 1950s in a TV series, again as a voiceover in the opening, in the Look in the Sky, it's a bird that's a plane, that same voiceover.
[00:44:08.280 --> 00:44:09.800] Again, not in the comics.
[00:44:09.800 --> 00:44:16.120] And again, here it is propaganda because this is in the middle of the Red Scare, through the peak of McCarthyism.
[00:44:16.120 --> 00:44:18.040] That was when this show was running.
[00:44:18.040 --> 00:44:32.680] That show finishes in 1958, and then the phrase disappears once again, and we do not hear it again until the Christopher Reeve movie when Superman, for the first time Superman himself, says, I'm here to fight for truth, justice, in the American way.
[00:44:32.840 --> 00:44:34.840] So why does Chris Reeves say it?
[00:44:35.160 --> 00:44:39.560] Because the people who made that film grew up watching the 50s serials.
[00:44:39.960 --> 00:44:41.480] Literally, that's the reason why.
[00:44:41.480 --> 00:44:45.000] But they also made Superman way more powerful than in the 50s serials.
[00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:45.480] Yeah.
[00:44:46.440 --> 00:44:47.960] Just bad, in it.
[00:44:47.960 --> 00:44:54.760] After this, the phrase appears in the pilot episode of Superboy, where Superboy says, I fight for the truth, justice, in the American way.
[00:44:54.760 --> 00:44:56.920] After that, never gets mentioned again.
[00:44:56.920 --> 00:44:58.520] It's not in the Dean Kane version.
[00:44:58.520 --> 00:44:59.800] It doesn't appear in Smallville.
[00:44:59.800 --> 00:45:00.920] It's not in Superman Returns.
[00:45:00.920 --> 00:45:01.800] It's not Man of Steel.
[00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:03.400] It's not in Back Mevy Superman.
[00:45:03.400 --> 00:45:07.080] The most recent Superman TV show, which is called Superman and Lois, which I've not seen.
[00:45:07.080 --> 00:45:07.640] I don't imagine that.
[00:45:07.720 --> 00:45:08.920] I don't think anyone has.
[00:45:08.920 --> 00:45:11.160] I think it's on BBC One at 5 p.m.
[00:45:11.240 --> 00:45:11.720] on a Saturday.
[00:45:12.200 --> 00:45:13.640] No one's watching BBC One at 5 p.m.
[00:45:13.640 --> 00:45:14.360] on a Saturday.
[00:45:14.680 --> 00:45:21.880] In one episode of that, Superman says he fights for truth and justice, to which Lois says, and the American way, and Superman just laughs.
[00:45:22.360 --> 00:45:22.760] That's it.
[00:45:22.760 --> 00:45:25.320] That's the closest that we've got to any version of this.
[00:45:25.320 --> 00:45:30.600] The phrase does not appear in a Superman comic book until 1991.
[00:45:30.600 --> 00:45:35.640] 53 years after the character first appeared in Action Comics number one.
[00:45:35.640 --> 00:45:44.440] This is the line that Shapiro says is deeply important to the character and does not get a mention in the original source material for its first 53 years.
[00:45:44.440 --> 00:45:44.760] Yeah.
[00:45:45.840 --> 00:45:55.200] Shapiro again says the only reason why Superman is a hero as opposed to a villain is because he grew up in America and he has the American way.
[00:45:55.520 --> 00:45:58.960] He is emblematic of what makes America what it is.
[00:45:58.960 --> 00:46:06.400] He may blunder, he may make mistakes, but overall, he stands for freedom, liberty, and private property and free speech.
[00:46:06.400 --> 00:46:08.560] Private property and free speech?
[00:46:08.880 --> 00:46:10.880] Which really made me fuck me.
[00:46:10.880 --> 00:46:19.200] I literally snorted with laughter on that one because everyone remembers all those famous Superman stories where it's like, I fucking love private property.
[00:46:19.200 --> 00:46:21.120] Just trickle down economics.
[00:46:21.120 --> 00:46:23.680] It's such a key thing for Superman that he loves.
[00:46:23.840 --> 00:46:24.400] Hang on.
[00:46:24.400 --> 00:46:25.680] No, it's Lex Luthor.
[00:46:25.680 --> 00:46:30.400] It's Lex Luther who really likes private property, who keeps banging on about fucking private property.
[00:46:30.400 --> 00:46:36.080] I mean, Superman is a symbol of how America got strong because it's an exceptional immigrant.
[00:46:36.400 --> 00:46:40.400] It's an immigrant bringing his exceptional talents to the betterment of America as a nation.
[00:46:40.400 --> 00:46:48.320] Although, some versions of Superman try to work around that by having when the ship crashes, he's not a baby.
[00:46:48.320 --> 00:46:53.440] He lands in a kind of artificial womb, and so he is born on American soil.
[00:46:54.720 --> 00:46:55.760] Oh my God.
[00:46:55.760 --> 00:47:00.560] But that just highlights how ridiculous resistance to immigration is.
[00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:03.440] Birthright citizenship now.
[00:47:04.080 --> 00:47:11.600] But this was the line that I thought really betrayed Shapiro's agenda here because he is not describing Superman's values.
[00:47:11.600 --> 00:47:16.400] He is critiquing the film not based on Superman's character or comic book history.
[00:47:16.400 --> 00:47:23.400] He has retrofitted his political views onto the character and then is annoyed that the character doesn't support them.
[00:47:23.200 --> 00:47:23.560] Yeah.
[00:47:24.160 --> 00:47:27.280] Fundamentally, Superman is a refugee.
[00:47:27.280 --> 00:47:32.920] He's somebody who flees his home during a natural disaster and then makes a new home on Earth.
[00:47:29.840 --> 00:47:36.200] And he grows up to love his new planet that he lives on.
[00:47:36.520 --> 00:47:41.240] He loves the people who live on this planet and he dedicates his life to protecting those people.
[00:47:41.240 --> 00:47:42.520] It's properly.
[00:47:42.520 --> 00:47:44.920] Give me your tide, your paws, your huddle masses, stuff.
[00:47:45.240 --> 00:47:46.600] You know, it's proper statue.
[00:47:47.320 --> 00:47:47.560] Right?
[00:47:47.880 --> 00:47:50.120] That's what the story of Superman is about.
[00:47:50.120 --> 00:47:54.520] If you want to get twatty and poncy about it, that's what Superman is about.
[00:47:54.520 --> 00:47:57.320] Or it's a daft story about Magic Flying Man.
[00:47:57.320 --> 00:47:59.800] But either way, he's not fucking Stars and Stripes.
[00:47:59.800 --> 00:48:01.960] He's not a Ronald Reagan campaign ad.
[00:48:01.960 --> 00:48:02.280] Yeah.
[00:48:02.520 --> 00:48:04.280] Sent to Captain America.
[00:48:04.920 --> 00:48:07.080] He's the man of steel, not the Iron Lady.
[00:48:08.360 --> 00:48:14.760] He's not a Ronald Reagan campaign ad sent to Earth to validate Ben Shapiro's political worldview.
[00:48:18.920 --> 00:48:23.160] So for QED, we've got a couple of new announcements that we can talk about for QED.
[00:48:23.160 --> 00:48:29.400] So first, we've got a workshop to announce that is going to be hosted for us by the fantastic Matt Kemp.
[00:48:29.400 --> 00:48:33.160] Yes, people who've been to QED before might remember Matt Kemp.
[00:48:33.160 --> 00:48:42.040] So Matt Kemp is the guy who came and drew some of our sessions at QED way back when, pre-pandemic.
[00:48:42.040 --> 00:48:45.080] Pre-pandemic, yeah, I think it was 17 and 18 he did for us.
[00:48:45.080 --> 00:48:50.840] So he works for a company called Scriberia, which is all about communicating through drawing.
[00:48:51.080 --> 00:48:53.880] So what he does for a living is communicate through drawing.
[00:48:53.880 --> 00:48:54.280] Nice.
[00:48:54.280 --> 00:48:55.960] Which is a pretty cool job to have.
[00:48:55.960 --> 00:49:01.960] And he has agreed to do a workshop for us on exactly that topic: how to communicate through drawing.
[00:49:01.960 --> 00:49:06.440] He is going to make you feel confident if you're you would like to draw but do not know how to draw.
[00:49:06.440 --> 00:49:07.640] It'll be a great session.
[00:49:07.640 --> 00:49:11.320] And he may even draw us a few boards around the event as well.
[00:49:11.320 --> 00:49:12.840] So, be a fun one.
[00:49:12.840 --> 00:49:14.520] Yeah, yeah, should be an interesting one.
[00:49:14.520 --> 00:49:16.880] And we've also got a panel to pitch, Marsh.
[00:49:16.880 --> 00:49:22.560] We have so obviously, this is our last QED, and it's in our 15th year.
[00:49:22.960 --> 00:49:28.480] We sort of did the first one in 2011, so 40, well, in our 15th, yes, so we did our first one in 2011.
[00:49:28.480 --> 00:49:34.080] We've been involved in skepticism now for 15 years as the most skeptic society and as the podcast.
[00:49:34.080 --> 00:49:48.800] And so, with that forming a nice kind of bookend, Richard Wiseman and Chris French actually suggested to us that we have a panel which is looking at how skepticism has changed in 15 years and what it's achieved in 15 years and what else there is to do.
[00:49:48.800 --> 00:49:59.120] So, it's a panel called Looking Back Moving Forwards and just looking at how skepticism has developed, what activities of skepticism over the last 15 years have achieved, especially in the UK.
[00:49:59.120 --> 00:50:02.720] Is critical thinking on the rise or is it in decline and those types of things?
[00:50:02.720 --> 00:50:06.320] What's the future hold for skepticism in the UK in particular?
[00:50:06.320 --> 00:50:15.200] And we wanted to keep it UK focused because if we're time limited on the scope of the panel, we can't do it justice to do everywhere.
[00:50:15.200 --> 00:50:19.200] And QED is in is a UK skepticism festival, so it felt appropriate.
[00:50:19.200 --> 00:50:32.160] So, that's going to be with Chris French, who obviously has done a huge amount of skeptical work and former editor of the skeptic magazine, and Professor Richard Wiseman, who people will know his work from his queer college videos and his YouTube channel and all the great psychology stuff he's done.
[00:50:32.160 --> 00:50:40.560] And then you and I, Alice, are going to be on talking about stuff that we've been doing in that 15 years, and the four of us will try and assess kind of the lie of the land, essentially.
[00:50:40.560 --> 00:50:42.800] So, yeah, should be an interesting chance to take stock.
[00:50:42.800 --> 00:50:48.880] And I'm not involved in that panel, which, despite being involved in skepticism for 15 years, which because all I've done is fuck it up.
[00:50:49.360 --> 00:50:52.080] That's all the mistakes that we've made, they were all me.
[00:50:53.360 --> 00:50:56.400] Get out of this room and hang your head in shame.
[00:50:57.440 --> 00:51:00.840] So, if you are coming to QED, you can look forward to those two sessions.
[00:51:00.840 --> 00:51:01.640] They're going to be fantastic.
[00:51:01.640 --> 00:51:03.880] We're going to have much, much more to announce coming up.
[00:51:03.880 --> 00:51:05.720] And the panel will be streamed, so you can get your streaming tickets.
[00:50:59.840 --> 00:51:06.600] It will be live streamed.
[00:51:06.920 --> 00:51:08.520] Yes, you can get your streaming tickets.
[00:51:08.520 --> 00:51:09.560] They are Β£49.
[00:51:09.640 --> 00:51:11.880] You can pick those up at qdcon.org.
[00:51:11.880 --> 00:51:13.960] We should also plug our Patreon.
[00:51:13.960 --> 00:51:14.680] Yes.
[00:51:14.680 --> 00:51:25.240] So if you enjoy the show and you enjoy what we do and you would like to support the show and support us, you can do that by going to patreon.com forward slash skeptics with a K, where you can donate for as little as a pound a month.
[00:51:25.240 --> 00:51:29.160] And in exchange for that, you will get copies of ad-free versions of this show.
[00:51:29.160 --> 00:51:29.480] You will.
[00:51:29.480 --> 00:51:35.800] You'll also get the satisfaction of knowing you're funding independent skeptical analysis and investigations.
[00:51:35.800 --> 00:51:41.080] Not just when Mike watches someone else's YouTube video and then repeats large parts of it.
[00:51:41.080 --> 00:51:44.200] But regurgitates it word for word in large sections.
[00:51:44.200 --> 00:51:47.720] For all of the time and the effort that the three of us put into our story.
[00:51:47.800 --> 00:51:49.480] I had to watch fucking Ben Shapiro.
[00:51:49.480 --> 00:51:52.360] I had to watch him sitting there Bell Engineer.
[00:51:52.360 --> 00:51:52.600] Yeah.
[00:51:52.600 --> 00:51:56.120] So it helps us be able to spend the time on the show.
[00:51:56.120 --> 00:52:02.120] And Alice talked obviously last episode about how her time is quite precious with the disability that you have.
[00:52:02.120 --> 00:52:02.920] So it helps.
[00:52:02.920 --> 00:52:10.200] So if you do want to do that, you can sort of kick in a quid pound a month for the four to five episodes that you'll get in the course of that time.
[00:52:10.200 --> 00:52:10.440] Yeah.
[00:52:10.440 --> 00:52:13.320] And we will be very, very grateful to you for that.
[00:52:13.320 --> 00:52:16.120] You can also donate to the Mercy Sound Skeptics Society.
[00:52:16.200 --> 00:52:18.520] You can do that at patreon.com forward slash Mercy Skeptics.
[00:52:18.520 --> 00:52:24.120] That also supports the show and supports the work of the Mersey Sound Skeptics who do brilliant work and brilliant stuff.
[00:52:24.120 --> 00:52:28.600] And as we've just heard from Marsh, for the last 15 years, we've been doing brilliant work and brilliant stuff.
[00:52:28.600 --> 00:52:31.000] Aside from that, then I think that is all we have time for.
[00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:31.560] I think it is.
[00:52:31.560 --> 00:52:34.120] All that remains then is for me to thank Marsh for coming along today.
[00:52:34.120 --> 00:52:34.600] Cheers.
[00:52:34.600 --> 00:52:35.640] Thank you to Alice.
[00:52:35.640 --> 00:52:36.120] Thank you.
[00:52:36.120 --> 00:52:38.760] We have been Skeptics with a K, and we will see you next time.
[00:52:38.760 --> 00:52:39.400] Bye now.
[00:52:39.400 --> 00:52:40.280] Bye.
[00:52:45.120 --> 00:52:50.160] Skeptics with a K is produced by Skeptic Media in association with the Merseyside Skeptic Society.
[00:52:50.160 --> 00:52:59.520] For questions or comments, email podcast at skepticswithakay.org and you can find out more about Merseyside Skeptics at merseyside skeptics.org.uk.