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[00:00:06.720 --> 00:00:14.880] It is Thursday the 3rd of July 2025 and you're listening to Skeptics with a K, the podcast for science, reason and critical thinking.
[00:00:14.880 --> 00:00:26.480] Skeptics with a K is produced by Skeptic Media in association with the Merseyside Skeptic Society, a non-profit organization for the promotion of scientific skepticism on Merseyside around the UK and internationally.
[00:00:26.480 --> 00:00:27.840] I'm your host Mike Hall.
[00:00:27.840 --> 00:00:29.120] With me today is Marsh.
[00:00:29.120 --> 00:00:29.760] Hello.
[00:00:29.760 --> 00:00:30.640] And Alice.
[00:00:30.640 --> 00:00:31.600] Hello.
[00:00:32.240 --> 00:00:38.400] So you shouldn't really believe at face value anything you see on the internet.
[00:00:38.400 --> 00:00:44.080] Possibly, with the possible exception of a Fiverr, which its value is very much its face value.
[00:00:44.080 --> 00:00:44.480] That's true.
[00:00:44.480 --> 00:00:45.120] That is very true.
[00:00:45.280 --> 00:00:46.000] Even on the internet.
[00:00:46.240 --> 00:00:50.000] Just on assumption, you see it on the internet, you shouldn't just assume that it's definitely, definitely true.
[00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:51.600] That's not always been the case.
[00:00:51.600 --> 00:00:59.120] You know, even though fakery and deception, they've always flourished in the digital anonymity that the internet has was founded on.
[00:00:59.120 --> 00:00:59.440] Yeah.
[00:00:59.440 --> 00:01:03.920] You always need to have a healthy skepticism of anything text-based in particular.
[00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:04.240] Sure.
[00:01:04.240 --> 00:01:11.920] Now, if the person's saying that they're definitely a really hot girl or a high-ranking military insider, it would have been sensible to take that with a pinch of salt.
[00:01:12.480 --> 00:01:19.760] Well, I assume this is a really hot, high-ranking military insider who's given me all these military secrets and trying to get off with me.
[00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:21.120] This is definitely for real.
[00:01:21.120 --> 00:01:21.440] No.
[00:01:21.440 --> 00:01:22.480] And not everyone did.
[00:01:22.720 --> 00:01:24.720] Not everyone did take that with a pinch of salt.
[00:01:24.800 --> 00:01:25.360] That's true.
[00:01:25.360 --> 00:01:31.360] That's how you ended up with people getting catfished into romance scams or dragged into QAnon conspiracy worlds.
[00:01:31.360 --> 00:01:34.720] Because on the internet, as the old adage goes, nobody knows you're a dog.
[00:01:34.720 --> 00:01:35.040] Yes.
[00:01:35.040 --> 00:01:37.600] You don't know what's going on on the other side of the screen.
[00:01:37.600 --> 00:01:44.560] I remember very clearly when I was first getting on the internet in my late teens, being told by my mom, you don't talk to strangers.
[00:01:44.560 --> 00:01:46.240] I don't, don't talk to strangers.
[00:01:46.480 --> 00:01:49.200] Like when you were a kid and you're not allowed to get into a stranger's car.
[00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:49.440] Yes.
[00:01:49.440 --> 00:01:49.680] Right?
[00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:49.920] Yeah, yeah.
[00:01:50.160 --> 00:01:52.640] Even though they say, well, we definitely know your mom.
[00:01:52.640 --> 00:01:54.960] And then, and then you know, definitely don't get in a stranger's car.
[00:01:54.960 --> 00:02:00.120] Fast forward now to 2025, we use the internet to summon a stranger specifically to get into their car.
[00:01:59.680 --> 00:02:03.640] Yeah, we just call it Uber now.
[00:02:03.960 --> 00:02:08.680] But I mean, for a while, there were some things that offered like a little bit of reassurance of authenticity.
[00:02:08.680 --> 00:02:18.680] Back when it took like a reasonably powerful machine and a graphic design degree to operate Photoshop beyond the obvious levels of manipulation, photos were a pretty reliable form of corroborating evidence.
[00:02:18.680 --> 00:02:19.080] Yes.
[00:02:19.080 --> 00:02:23.560] Or at least they were a sign that your scammer was willing to put in the hard yards to try to fool you.
[00:02:23.880 --> 00:02:31.800] And most of them weren't, which means Pixar it didn't happen was kind of enough to read or dismiss the would-be leg pullers and the digital fantasists.
[00:02:31.800 --> 00:02:34.200] And that isn't to say that every photo at the time could be trusted.
[00:02:34.200 --> 00:02:37.560] Yeah, people could have lied about what the photo showed.
[00:02:37.560 --> 00:02:38.440] Exactly, yeah, yeah.
[00:02:38.440 --> 00:02:46.200] It's not even to say that the photo's real, but what somebody's saying is in that photo is not what no, that's definitely his inauguration.
[00:02:47.480 --> 00:02:49.160] It's nobody else's inauguration.
[00:02:49.160 --> 00:02:50.200] It's definitely his.
[00:02:50.200 --> 00:02:52.600] That is exactly where I was going to go when it's right.
[00:02:52.920 --> 00:02:53.720] Absolutely.
[00:02:53.720 --> 00:02:57.000] Because on the internet, there's more than one way to skin a lolcat.
[00:02:57.000 --> 00:03:09.800] And long before the first one ever met its first zero and made a little baby bite, propagandists have known the value of taking a very real image and then attaching it to a very fake story in order to give it authenticity.
[00:03:09.800 --> 00:03:12.040] You know, this is something David Ike fell on quite a lot.
[00:03:12.040 --> 00:03:16.520] I think we saw him maybe do that when we saw him in Southport, or maybe I've seen him in some of his other kind of lectures.
[00:03:16.520 --> 00:03:22.440] He'd use photos of Syrian war victims and he'd say that these are actually crisis actors.
[00:03:22.440 --> 00:03:23.400] These are all actors.
[00:03:23.400 --> 00:03:26.440] If you look at this dead body here, look at the wounds on this dead body.
[00:03:26.440 --> 00:03:27.240] That looks fake.
[00:03:27.240 --> 00:03:29.480] That looks like TV style makeup.
[00:03:29.480 --> 00:03:34.360] And if you look at this picture of the dead body and this other picture of the dead body, it's moved in between.
[00:03:34.360 --> 00:03:36.440] And this is proof that they're actors.
[00:03:36.440 --> 00:03:38.360] And the thing is, those were real photos.
[00:03:38.360 --> 00:03:46.640] They weren't digitally altered fakes, but they were photos of a TV drama that Ike was saying were real, meant to be real victims of the war.
[00:03:44.920 --> 00:03:48.080] He's not wrong that they were actors.
[00:03:48.240 --> 00:03:53.920] He was just presenting them in a way in a deceptive context where they were assumed to be something other than actors.
[00:03:53.920 --> 00:03:55.600] They were only ever meant to be photos of actors.
[00:03:55.600 --> 00:03:56.880] That was the whole point.
[00:03:56.880 --> 00:04:08.640] But inevitably, like the cost of faking images fell, and the skill needed to manipulate an image dropped away to essentially zero to a matter of jabs on an iPhone screen or a verbal prompt to an AI tool.
[00:04:08.640 --> 00:04:16.720] And our ability to trust the images that we're presented with went down the drain along with the several liters of water that each AI prompt wastes.
[00:04:16.720 --> 00:04:24.240] But at least we had video footage, moving images, associated audio, hearing things directly from the horse's mouth.
[00:04:24.240 --> 00:04:32.800] We could put our trust there for as long as Moore's Law took for the tools that fake photos to be able to convincingly tackle videos.
[00:04:32.800 --> 00:04:41.120] And at the moment, we're like 90% of the way towards AI videos being so convincing that even the scrupulously skeptical can't reliably spot the difference at all.
[00:04:41.440 --> 00:04:47.840] We're a ways away from Will Smith eating spaghetti, which was kind of those early AI video attempts.
[00:04:47.840 --> 00:05:04.240] And especially when the videos are taken out of the context of, can you spot if this video is faked or not, and placed into a feed alongside the various things that Facebook wants you to see, which inevitably is anything but the friends and pages actively want to see.
[00:05:04.240 --> 00:05:06.800] Facebook will show you everything else other than the people you want to see.
[00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:11.360] And it's extra tricky when you have unbelievable things happening all the time.
[00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:26.720] Because it used to be that if a politician said something unrealistic or very surprising, you would at least go and like look for a video of them actually saying that thing so that you can corroborate that that thing has in fact been said because it is an unbelievable thing.
[00:05:26.720 --> 00:05:31.160] Now they're unbelievable things said all the fucking time and the videos can be faked.
[00:05:31.160 --> 00:05:32.440] Yeah, it floods the zone with shit.
[00:05:29.920 --> 00:05:33.400] It's the Steve Bannon thing.
[00:05:33.480 --> 00:05:42.520] So that when Elon Musk did two Nazi salutes at a Trump rally and no, you know, that's the kind of thing that would have been faked previously, but no, it's a real thing that happened.
[00:05:42.520 --> 00:05:46.360] But that said, we don't even need deep fakes and ultra-convincing AI to fool people with videos.
[00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:50.680] We can simply, once again, take a real video and pretend it's something it definitely isn't.
[00:05:50.680 --> 00:05:58.360] For example, if you went to the TikTok page for Flat Earth Antarctica, you'll see a popular video that's like 8,000 likes, 3,000 comments.
[00:05:58.360 --> 00:06:10.440] And it's pointing out that pilots know the Earth is flat because, as the speaker says in the video, when you talk to pilots, they'll tell you there's never a point in the journey where they have to start pointing the nose of their plane downwards to compensate for the curve.
[00:06:10.440 --> 00:06:11.880] And that's because the Earth isn't curved.
[00:06:11.880 --> 00:06:12.680] It's actually flat.
[00:06:12.680 --> 00:06:12.920] Yeah.
[00:06:13.080 --> 00:06:13.880] Seen this video.
[00:06:14.280 --> 00:06:14.920] I have seen this video.
[00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:16.280] You have seen this video, yeah.
[00:06:16.280 --> 00:06:16.680] Okay.
[00:06:16.680 --> 00:06:21.320] The comments are filled with people ridiculing the young, quite handsome guy in the video.
[00:06:21.320 --> 00:06:25.320] And they're saying things like, Do these people even know how flight works?
[00:06:25.320 --> 00:06:28.280] And has anyone told him that gravity exists?
[00:06:28.280 --> 00:06:31.400] And this is why he's not a rocket scientist.
[00:06:31.400 --> 00:06:31.720] Yeah.
[00:06:31.720 --> 00:06:33.720] And to be honest, I don't think that's why he's not a rocket scientist.
[00:06:33.880 --> 00:06:34.520] No, it's not.
[00:06:34.520 --> 00:06:36.760] That's not the reason the guy in the video isn't a rocket scientist.
[00:06:36.760 --> 00:06:39.720] Because the reason is he was actually really into science as a kid.
[00:06:39.720 --> 00:06:48.760] He just decided instead to do a degree in English, literature, and language and end up becoming a podcaster who spent years researching and then giving talks about the flat earth movement and why it's wrong.
[00:06:48.760 --> 00:06:49.160] Yeah.
[00:06:49.160 --> 00:06:54.840] Including a lecture that I gave in Brazil, which this deceptively edited 19-second clip comes from.
[00:06:54.840 --> 00:07:01.960] You know, there's a reason that the video starts literally mid-sentence and ends with me saying, they say, what about?
[00:07:01.960 --> 00:07:03.320] and stopping at that bit.
[00:07:03.720 --> 00:07:09.400] Literally, it ends it ends mid-sentence because it cuts off because I was listing all of the flat earth arguments and why they're wrong.
[00:07:09.400 --> 00:07:16.480] It's funny watching that video because obviously, I know you, and I know just to be super clear for listeners, the video is you.
[00:07:16.640 --> 00:07:25.200] The video is me in Brazil and you are debunking the flat earth, but they've clipped you explaining it before you debunk it.
[00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:27.360] It's clipped me saying flat earth.
[00:07:27.360 --> 00:07:38.960] It even the bit they've cut off at the start is where I say flat earthers will say things like, Yeah, and then they'll say they've cut off that bit and it's got me doing that, and then they've cut before I say, and it's wrong for these reasons.
[00:07:38.960 --> 00:07:39.600] Yeah, yeah.
[00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:57.760] And when I'm watching it, and it was only a few days ago that I saw this video and I watched it, and I thought, this is really interesting because I know you and I know what your position is on that, so I can see the little hints where you're saying they say this, but it's quite subtle, and it looks very much like it's just you being pro-flatter.
[00:07:57.760 --> 00:08:01.520] Yeah, especially when you trim it past the points where I actually give those kind of clues.
[00:08:01.520 --> 00:08:03.680] And it's annoying, it's not the only time they've done it.
[00:08:03.680 --> 00:08:12.720] They've got another clip up on their same TikTok page with getting thousands of views, where I say that people in Australia are upside down and might fall off.
[00:08:12.960 --> 00:08:14.320] You've just given it to them again.
[00:08:16.400 --> 00:08:19.520] They've got another one where I talk about shooting a cannonball on a spinning earth.
[00:08:19.520 --> 00:08:21.280] And look, it is slightly amusing.
[00:08:21.280 --> 00:08:23.200] It's also incredibly annoying.
[00:08:23.200 --> 00:08:24.480] Yeah, it's incredibly annoying.
[00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:26.080] And completely deliberate, right?
[00:08:26.080 --> 00:08:31.680] Because to clip that video in that way has to be done deceptively, deliberately, with that malintent.
[00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:33.360] Yeah, there's no way you do it by accident.
[00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:38.320] I'm introduced on the video as someone who's talking about why the flat earth movement is wrong.
[00:08:38.320 --> 00:08:45.360] But even if you just skipped to a random part of the video, you've got to cut it deliberately out of the context of that one sentence.
[00:08:45.360 --> 00:08:54.720] Like it's even if you only watch that 60 seconds to take that 19-second clip or whatever second clip you said it was, you've got to have heard the the caveats in there.
[00:08:54.720 --> 00:09:01.800] Yeah, it's a 19-second clip because a 23-second clip would have at either end the clues that I'm that I don't believe those bits in the middle.
[00:09:01.800 --> 00:09:02.440] It's very annoying.
[00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:07.080] It's annoying that they're using a six-year-old flat earth debunking video to promote flat earth beliefs.
[00:09:07.400 --> 00:09:15.640] It's even more annoying that the people who don't believe in the flat earth are in the comments being arrogant insulting dick bags telling me what an idiot I am for believing these things.
[00:09:15.640 --> 00:09:18.440] Yeah, it's whole other reasons why you're an idiot for believing things.
[00:09:19.640 --> 00:09:20.840] They don't need to invent them.
[00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:21.560] They don't need to invent them.
[00:09:22.040 --> 00:09:26.120] Quite frankly, like we should be getting more ridiculous for not liking Breaking Bad, for example.
[00:09:26.360 --> 00:09:27.000] I hate it so much.
[00:09:27.000 --> 00:09:27.960] I hate it so much.
[00:09:27.960 --> 00:09:38.200] So yeah, when you see a video, even on TikTok, even when it is saying something ridiculous, maybe just pause to see whether actually is this really as it's been presenting at face value.
[00:09:38.200 --> 00:09:42.840] So with that being said, I'm actually going to, that was just a tangent for me to air the fact that I'm pissed off about that.
[00:09:42.840 --> 00:09:45.000] Flat Earth Antarctica can get fucked.
[00:09:45.160 --> 00:09:45.960] It's our show.
[00:09:45.960 --> 00:09:56.200] Anybody on TikTok, anybody, any listeners who do use TikTok, please feel free to go to Flat Earth Antarctica, see the videos there and report them for misinformation, which I've been doing because this is misinformation.
[00:09:56.200 --> 00:09:59.000] It's deceptively edited misinformation here.
[00:09:59.000 --> 00:10:03.480] But all this being said, I'm going to be slightly tentative in talking about an Instagram video that I was sent last week.
[00:10:03.480 --> 00:10:08.520] I'm not on Instagram myself, but I was sent it by a good friend, a listener to show.
[00:10:08.520 --> 00:10:12.200] And I don't believe this Instagram video is deceptively edited.
[00:10:12.200 --> 00:10:18.200] It was posted to, but I'm putting caveats, but I think I've done enough due diligence to see that I think it's legit.
[00:10:18.200 --> 00:10:22.920] It was posted by the Instagram account VinegarIT or Vinegar It.
[00:10:22.920 --> 00:10:25.160] I can't quite tell whether it's vinegar it or vinegar it.
[00:10:25.160 --> 00:10:30.120] The IT is in capitals, but I don't think it's information technology about vinegar.
[00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:30.280] Okay.
[00:10:30.280 --> 00:10:30.920] Is it like vinegar it?
[00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:32.200] It could be vinegar Italy.
[00:10:32.200 --> 00:10:35.480] It could be vinegar Italy, but there's no sign that they're Italian.
[00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:36.040] Okay.
[00:10:36.040 --> 00:10:37.720] They're certainly not speaking in Italian.
[00:10:37.720 --> 00:10:38.920] None of them mentioned, so I don't know.
[00:10:38.920 --> 00:10:39.880] But it's vinegar it.
[00:10:39.880 --> 00:10:44.760] Will they just say balsamic instead of balsamic Italian vinegar?
[00:10:44.800 --> 00:10:45.040] I've never seen it.
[00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:49.040] We'll come to hell, okay.
[00:10:49.200 --> 00:10:57.200] So in this video, we see a variety of clips showing beautiful blue skies and pretty fluffy little white clouds.
[00:10:57.200 --> 00:10:59.040] And then it'll show another little clip of that.
[00:10:59.040 --> 00:11:01.920] And it's things that people have taken themselves and sort of I've sent in.
[00:11:01.920 --> 00:11:02.880] I can't tell if it's the same person.
[00:11:02.880 --> 00:11:04.800] It looks like it's from different locations.
[00:11:04.800 --> 00:11:08.480] And it looks like the, you know, the way the sky used to look when you were a child.
[00:11:08.480 --> 00:11:10.880] The way you would draw the sky as a child.
[00:11:10.880 --> 00:11:17.200] But each clip of this beautiful vista starts first with the camera panning from a bucket on the ground.
[00:11:17.200 --> 00:11:21.120] So it starts looking at the bucket in the ground and then it pans up to the beautiful sky.
[00:11:21.120 --> 00:11:21.680] Okay.
[00:11:21.680 --> 00:11:22.320] Okay.
[00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:25.840] Sometimes there's steam rising from the bucket.
[00:11:25.840 --> 00:11:27.200] Sometimes it's still.
[00:11:27.200 --> 00:11:34.160] Sometimes there's a diffuser instead of a bucket and it's spraying mist just like a few inches or feet.
[00:11:34.160 --> 00:11:34.560] Okay.
[00:11:34.880 --> 00:11:41.520] According to the video, each of those containers is actually responsible for the beautiful blue sky above them.
[00:11:41.520 --> 00:11:48.640] Because those containers contain vinegar that's been simmered to a warm temperature and then diffused out.
[00:11:48.640 --> 00:11:52.240] And that vinegar is fighting off the chemtrails in the sky.
[00:11:52.480 --> 00:11:52.880] Okay.
[00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:57.120] These are cloud-busting, chemtrail-busting vinegar diffusers.
[00:11:57.280 --> 00:11:57.600] That's good.
[00:11:57.600 --> 00:11:59.280] That's why you never see chemtrail over a chippy.
[00:11:59.520 --> 00:12:00.000] You never do.
[00:12:00.800 --> 00:12:02.000] It's just never there.
[00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:14.960] Vinegar IT posted this reel with the hashtags hashtag white vinegar, because not that balsamic, hashtag geoengineered weather, hashtag I like those, the juxtaposition of those two hashtags itself.
[00:12:14.960 --> 00:12:32.520] White vinegar, hashtag geoengineered weather, hashtag geoengineering, hashtag chemtrails, hashtrail, hashtag chemtrail awareness, hashtag chemtrail spraying, hashtag chemtrail clouds, hashtag stop spraying our skies, hashtag we do not consent, hashtag geoengineering, again, hashtag weather manipulation.
[00:12:32.520 --> 00:12:36.200] What if I don't consent to them spraying vinegar into the sky?
[00:12:36.840 --> 00:12:46.440] Then you need to start your own series of reels where you're doing it something that would be anti-vinegar and then turning the camera to their vinegar diffuser not working.
[00:12:46.920 --> 00:12:48.600] Oh, it's not working, and that's because of what I did.
[00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:49.640] It's baking powder.
[00:12:49.640 --> 00:12:53.400] They ruined everybody's baking powder by spraying vinegar into the sky.
[00:12:53.400 --> 00:12:55.800] Ironically, what they're doing there is geoengineering.
[00:12:55.800 --> 00:12:57.640] If what they did worked, it is.
[00:12:57.640 --> 00:12:58.520] Then he's geoengineering.
[00:12:59.000 --> 00:13:00.200] It's literally what they're doing.
[00:13:00.200 --> 00:13:03.560] And they say in a comment, you can also use white wine vinegar.
[00:13:03.560 --> 00:13:08.760] It works just the same, but white vinegar is the best as it is also designed for cleaning.
[00:13:08.760 --> 00:13:09.560] And someone...
[00:13:09.880 --> 00:13:11.960] Including skies, apparently.
[00:13:12.360 --> 00:13:13.240] Cleaning the skies?
[00:13:13.240 --> 00:13:19.000] Yeah, but I love to say you can use white wine vinegar because it works just the same, but white vinegar's best.
[00:13:19.320 --> 00:13:20.840] Yep, this is what they're saying then.
[00:13:20.840 --> 00:13:21.800] But this one's better.
[00:13:21.800 --> 00:13:29.560] To which somebody responded, DEFMAR 007 responded to a story, T-U-R-E, rather, they went to go to True Story.
[00:13:29.560 --> 00:13:30.600] They swung and missed.
[00:13:30.840 --> 00:13:32.840] They said, this is what I do around my property.
[00:13:32.840 --> 00:13:36.760] I set out pots of boiling vinegar and the sky is clear above.
[00:13:36.760 --> 00:13:40.520] Isn't hot vinegar like quite dangerous for your mucous membranes and stuff?
[00:13:40.520 --> 00:13:41.480] Yeah, it's not good.
[00:13:41.640 --> 00:13:44.440] I often cough when putting vinegar on my chips.
[00:13:44.680 --> 00:13:45.240] You'll get a.
[00:13:47.080 --> 00:13:50.040] I've not looked into whether it's actively harmful.
[00:13:50.040 --> 00:13:51.080] It's not fun.
[00:13:51.080 --> 00:13:51.960] It's not nice.
[00:13:51.960 --> 00:13:53.320] Well, I mean, depends what you're into.
[00:13:53.560 --> 00:13:55.400] People might have a massive vinegar fetish.
[00:13:55.480 --> 00:13:56.920] They might just show vinegar.
[00:13:56.920 --> 00:13:57.480] It's up to them.
[00:13:57.480 --> 00:13:59.720] Well, he has said boiling vinegar and we will come back.
[00:14:00.280 --> 00:14:10.280] Defmar 007 has broken one of the cardinal rules of vinegar chemtrail busting because he's using, but they are using boiling vinegar, which you're not meant to do.
[00:14:10.280 --> 00:14:15.000] Yeah, it creates acetic acid vapors which can irritate their respiratory system, eyes, and skin.
[00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:18.720] Okay, well, put a pin in that for a little bit because we will come back, okay?
[00:14:19.040 --> 00:14:26.720] Superimposed over that video is the text, video from Vinegar Blue Sky Telegram Group, which I immediately joined.
[00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:27.520] Of course, you did.
[00:14:27.520 --> 00:14:35.280] This was Matthew, actually, our friend Matthew, who comes to skeptics, a friend of ours, who sent this to me because obviously Matthew finds weird stuff on the internet and then sends it to me.
[00:14:35.280 --> 00:14:37.120] And then I end up in Telegram holes.
[00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:48.400] But this is why you should join Instagram, because if you're on Instagram, then Matthew sends it directly to Instagram DMs and you get it more rapidly because it's just an easier, like, quick share.
[00:14:48.400 --> 00:14:50.640] I want Matthew to filter this bullshit out before I get to it.
[00:14:50.640 --> 00:14:52.160] I want only the very best.
[00:14:52.160 --> 00:14:56.320] At the time of recording, this Telegram channel has 3,693 subscribers.
[00:14:56.320 --> 00:15:04.720] It is your one-stop shop for all of the advice and pithy memes you might need to spread the idea of simmering white vinegar to dispel chemtrails.
[00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:14.080] There's videos about how to make your own white vinegar in your kitchen using like sugar and orange peel in case the store-bought stuff isn't pure and organic enough for you.
[00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:18.160] There's a surprising number of Pepe the Frog memes, which I'm showing you both here.
[00:15:18.160 --> 00:15:18.480] Yes.
[00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:24.160] We have Pepe holding a young frog saying, the young frog saying, do we have to do the vinegar today?
[00:15:24.160 --> 00:15:28.960] And the old Pepe is saying, you want sunshine with your ice cream, don't you?
[00:15:28.960 --> 00:15:34.080] We also have Pepe the Frog surveying the horizon, the fruit of your overnight vinegar labor.
[00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:38.320] It's a beautiful horizon as Pepe's shielding his eyes from the sunrise.
[00:15:38.320 --> 00:15:46.080] And also a little Pepe lying sadly in bed with, well, at least I did one good vinegar deed today.
[00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:46.720] Fucking hell.
[00:15:46.880 --> 00:15:51.200] So that is the memes that we get shared in this space, among other memes.
[00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:53.760] But there's a lot of Pepe the Frog memes, which is a bit weird.
[00:15:53.760 --> 00:15:58.800] That feels like the people in the Telegram are not believers in this.
[00:15:58.800 --> 00:16:00.920] I think the people in the Telegram are believers in it.
[00:16:01.240 --> 00:16:11.240] I think they are having fun inside of their community, but I think they're wearing this as shouldering the burden of having to be the one to dispel the chemtrails.
[00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:14.520] Having spent a bit of time scrolling, I don't think this is done ironically.
[00:16:14.520 --> 00:16:17.560] I've been trying to look for signs of irony, but I think there's something else.
[00:16:17.880 --> 00:16:21.400] But isn't Pepe the Frog one of the signs of irony?
[00:16:21.800 --> 00:16:24.520] Sort of, but yes and no.
[00:16:24.520 --> 00:16:26.040] I think even the places where...
[00:16:26.040 --> 00:16:32.200] So Pepe the Frog is very popular in alt-right spaces and overtly right-wing spaces.
[00:16:32.200 --> 00:16:36.920] And they're not doing that to satirize the space that they're in when they're using the buttons.
[00:16:36.920 --> 00:16:41.800] But it was also very common in 4chan, which was deliberately creating misinformation.
[00:16:42.440 --> 00:16:43.960] Yes, it was.
[00:16:43.960 --> 00:16:50.280] But Pepe has got a life beyond that where they now use it in those alt-right spaces.
[00:16:50.280 --> 00:16:55.800] It has an air of plausible deniability of like, oh no, I don't really mean gas the Jews.
[00:16:55.800 --> 00:16:58.040] I'm just saying it for the lulls, for the kecks.
[00:16:58.040 --> 00:16:59.560] But actually, you are saying that.
[00:16:59.560 --> 00:17:02.200] You're just using this as a way to get out.
[00:17:02.200 --> 00:17:04.760] And so I think it's sort of taken on that kind of role.
[00:17:04.760 --> 00:17:10.200] I think that the presence of Pepe in these spaces isn't indicative of them being in on a joke.
[00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:14.440] I think it's maybe indicative of where they're being influenced elsewhere as well.
[00:17:14.440 --> 00:17:21.000] And that they're swimming in those meme pools and bringing some of those cultural touchstone references into this space, I think.
[00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:22.680] But again, I can't be certain.
[00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:24.760] Presumably, there's frog spawn in the meme pools.
[00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:27.400] There is frog spawn filling the meme pools.
[00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:37.880] If you're wondering how this is all meant to work, well, there's a link in this Telegram channel to a YouTube video in which two women use a fog machine to spit cimmered vinegar fog into their garden.
[00:17:37.880 --> 00:17:48.080] And the thing is, the sky they're sat under isn't a classic chemtrail sky, by which we which means, you know, it's not the sky that you'd see crisscrossed with the trails from planes.
[00:17:44.840 --> 00:17:49.440] It's just a cloudy day.
[00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:54.240] They've just got a cloudy day, but they're saying, Oh, look at those skies.
[00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:56.080] Oh, God, ah, awful.
[00:17:56.080 --> 00:17:58.640] Let's get the let's get the vinegar fog on the goal.
[00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:05.440] And after just half an hour of sitting in their garden spitting out vinegar vapor, they find blue patches appearing in the sky.
[00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:10.640] But do they think vinegar is homeopathic?
[00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:12.080] Pin in that as well.
[00:18:12.080 --> 00:18:13.120] Stop giving me pins.
[00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:15.280] I'm turning you into a pincush.
[00:18:15.280 --> 00:18:17.280] We will come back to that, in fact.
[00:18:17.280 --> 00:18:19.520] Because the sky's fucking like the sky's massive.
[00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:20.640] The sky is big.
[00:18:21.600 --> 00:18:22.960] The clouds are really far away.
[00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:24.960] The vinegar is not getting up to the clouds.
[00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:25.520] No.
[00:18:25.520 --> 00:18:26.560] Or the chemtrails.
[00:18:26.560 --> 00:18:32.880] And the clouds are moving all the time as well, which arguably is the reason that after half an hour they start to see blue skies.
[00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:36.080] It's just you waited long enough and the skies changed.
[00:18:36.080 --> 00:18:38.320] But again, we will come back to explain that.
[00:18:38.320 --> 00:18:45.360] Elsewhere on this Telegram channel, they promoted a YouTube video called Clearing Geoengineered Clouds Fact Sheet.
[00:18:45.360 --> 00:18:46.480] How to do it.
[00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:47.440] It wasn't a fact sheet.
[00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:48.560] It's a YouTube video.
[00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:50.080] It's not a fact sheet.
[00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:52.080] It is evidentially not a fact sheet.
[00:18:52.080 --> 00:18:54.800] It's a series of text slides as a YouTube video.
[00:18:54.800 --> 00:18:58.320] In it, they say white vinegar is acetate acid.
[00:18:58.320 --> 00:18:59.360] Acetic.
[00:18:59.360 --> 00:19:01.040] They say acetate acid.
[00:19:01.040 --> 00:19:01.920] Okay, good.
[00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:05.280] Acetate is like the stuff that you put on your overhead projector.
[00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:09.520] I couldn't tell if you were laughing because it was ridiculous of me to suggest that on the fly you could explain the difference.
[00:19:09.520 --> 00:19:13.280] But you're laughing because it is ridiculous to get the two confused.
[00:19:13.280 --> 00:19:14.320] I am chemically ignorant.
[00:19:14.560 --> 00:19:15.840] Acetate is plastic.
[00:19:15.840 --> 00:19:16.480] It's a plastic acetylcholine.
[00:19:16.560 --> 00:19:18.000] Yeah, I knew that it'd like those acetate sheets.
[00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:19.760] But I don't know what an acetate acid is.
[00:19:20.080 --> 00:19:20.720] Not a thing.
[00:19:20.800 --> 00:19:21.760] It's acetic acid.
[00:19:21.760 --> 00:19:24.560] Acetic acid is fucking vinegar.
[00:19:25.040 --> 00:19:26.400] Chemically, vinegar is acetic acid.
[00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:27.360] Acetic acid, yeah.
[00:19:27.360 --> 00:19:29.040] Yeah, I'm just looking it up.
[00:19:29.040 --> 00:19:32.520] Acetate is the conjugate base of acetic acid.
[00:19:32.520 --> 00:19:32.920] Okay.
[00:19:32.920 --> 00:19:33.960] Yeah, that's fair enough.
[00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:34.200] Yeah.
[00:19:29.760 --> 00:19:36.360] So they say white vinegar is acetate acid.
[00:19:36.520 --> 00:19:42.200] It eats alkaline metals, which is what they spray to create the geo-engineered clouds.
[00:19:42.200 --> 00:19:42.600] Yeah.
[00:19:42.600 --> 00:19:44.440] They just quote-unquote eat.
[00:19:44.440 --> 00:19:45.960] They're eating those metals.
[00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:50.200] It says supermarket distilled white vinegar is typically 5% vinegar, 95% water.
[00:19:50.200 --> 00:19:52.120] But hang on, go on.
[00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:54.040] I was never good at chemistry.
[00:19:54.120 --> 00:19:54.520] Yeah.
[00:19:54.520 --> 00:19:56.040] I'm not a chemist.
[00:19:56.040 --> 00:20:00.840] But acetate is the conjugate base of acetic acid.
[00:20:00.840 --> 00:20:01.320] Yes.
[00:20:01.320 --> 00:20:09.080] Which means that is what you make when you're using acetic acid to make to counteract your alkaline.
[00:20:09.080 --> 00:20:11.320] It will convert into acetate.
[00:20:11.560 --> 00:20:12.040] It will become.
[00:20:12.280 --> 00:20:15.800] So you can't use the acetate to neutralize the alkaline.
[00:20:15.800 --> 00:20:17.800] You have to use the acetic acid.
[00:20:17.800 --> 00:20:23.960] I also would imagine that an acid wouldn't eat an alkaline metal to a point where there was nothing left of it.
[00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:24.440] No.
[00:20:24.440 --> 00:20:25.480] So, you know.
[00:20:26.760 --> 00:20:29.960] So the way this is, this is going back to GCSE chemistry.
[00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:31.080] I did A-level chemistry, actually.
[00:20:31.160 --> 00:20:31.960] Come back to A-level chemistry.
[00:20:32.120 --> 00:20:36.200] Okay, I did GCSE chemistry and I can't remember it, but I can't remember this from it, but that was.
[00:20:36.520 --> 00:20:44.040] I did some chemistry modules in my undergraduate degree because I have the highest training chemistry, but I was fucking shy to.
[00:20:44.440 --> 00:20:46.040] I trust Michael View.
[00:20:46.760 --> 00:20:48.040] I'm terrible at chemistry.
[00:20:48.040 --> 00:20:54.280] The way this would work then is if there's alkaline metals in the sky and that's reacting with the acetic acid, right?
[00:20:54.280 --> 00:20:55.880] Producing salt and water.
[00:20:55.880 --> 00:20:56.280] Yep.
[00:20:56.280 --> 00:20:57.480] Fundamentally is what it would do.
[00:20:57.480 --> 00:21:01.080] So the water will be the water, but the salt would be an acetate salt.
[00:21:01.080 --> 00:21:07.720] So it would be a salt with an acetate ion in, and the other half of the salt would depend on what metal it was that they were spraying into the sky.
[00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:12.680] So it might be sodium acetate, for example, if it's a sodium metal that we've been spraying in the sky.
[00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:13.720] So that's the way that's going to work.
[00:21:13.880 --> 00:21:15.920] Acetate acid is an oxymoron.
[00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:16.800] Yes, I think it is.
[00:21:16.800 --> 00:21:19.280] Yeah, I think they're idiots.
[00:21:14.920 --> 00:21:21.200] For many reasons, definitely wrong.
[00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:24.560] But I, and it may be wrong, and listeners will write it if we fuck this up.
[00:21:24.560 --> 00:21:29.920] But I don't think acetate acid is an accepted alternative name for acetic acid.
[00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:32.480] I think they've just probably, that's an autocorrect.
[00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:37.440] They've tried to type acetic and their phone has gone, no, you mean acetate acetate?
[00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:41.920] As far as safe, it's probably an autocorrect because it could just be that they got it wrong.
[00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:47.280] Also, their plan is to then, at best, rain down salt water onto farmland.
[00:21:47.280 --> 00:21:47.440] Yes.
[00:21:47.600 --> 00:21:49.120] Which is not a great idea.
[00:21:49.120 --> 00:21:52.880] Like, that's salting the earth, essentially, is what they're.
[00:21:52.880 --> 00:21:55.440] But also, it depends on what the salt is as well, right?
[00:21:55.440 --> 00:21:58.400] So, that, you know, it could be all sorts of different salts.
[00:21:58.400 --> 00:21:58.960] Yeah.
[00:21:59.280 --> 00:22:03.680] They say supermarket distilled white vinegar is typically 5% vinegar, 95% water.
[00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:11.440] So you need to simmer, brackets, never boil it, close brackets, it, to half the amount to concentrate the solution.
[00:22:11.440 --> 00:22:15.360] Yes, and that, but that's because boiling vinegar is harmful.
[00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:20.720] Yeah, despite the fact that somebody was boiling vinegar in the comments to say this works.
[00:22:20.720 --> 00:22:25.040] They say simmering will remove most of the water content, giving you a much stronger vinegar solution.
[00:22:25.040 --> 00:22:31.760] To fight the geo-engineering, you put dark balls because dark balls attract the sun's heat.
[00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:38.480] You put dark balls of vinegar outside, or you re-bottle it after simmering and put it outside in the path of the sun.
[00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:39.600] So that's how that works.
[00:22:39.600 --> 00:22:41.600] You put it in the path of the sun so it warms it back up.
[00:22:41.600 --> 00:22:44.000] Dark balls attract the sun's heat.
[00:22:44.640 --> 00:22:45.920] Are we happy with that?
[00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:49.200] They'll warm up naturally.
[00:22:50.080 --> 00:22:51.520] They will retain heat.
[00:22:51.520 --> 00:22:53.080] They don't attract the heat in the sense of the same.
[00:22:53.160 --> 00:22:55.120] They attract the heat, but they don't repel the heat.
[00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:58.640] Yes, they will retain heat is a better way of phrasing it.
[00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:03.720] Attracting the heat makes it seems like the sun is seeking out the dark ball rather than the path next to it, which is left.
[00:22:59.760 --> 00:23:08.200] Nearby heat is being diverted to the wall, which is not what's happening.
[00:23:08.200 --> 00:23:11.880] Yeah, they go on to say, this is a battle for our skies.
[00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:15.640] So time scales for clearing a white-out sky can vary.
[00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:18.440] Sometimes it can take me a couple of days.
[00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:23.560] Other times, other times it's within a few hours.
[00:23:23.560 --> 00:23:25.960] AKA, the weather system has moved on.
[00:23:25.960 --> 00:23:31.240] Yeah, they can change an entirely cloudy sky in a couple of days.
[00:23:31.240 --> 00:23:37.160] It says, I can clear skies for up to 10 miles around my home of geo-clouds using a humidifier.
[00:23:37.160 --> 00:23:39.960] So they pop their little humidifier down in the garden.
[00:23:39.960 --> 00:23:43.560] It sprays out a bit of simmered vinegar mist.
[00:23:43.560 --> 00:23:47.320] And within a couple of days, the clouds have moved.
[00:23:47.960 --> 00:23:53.640] Interestingly, this video is watermarked with the name of the channel that created it, which is Divine Truth.
[00:23:53.640 --> 00:23:54.120] Lovely.
[00:23:54.360 --> 00:23:58.280] I can't see what else Divine Truth believes in because their channel is banned.
[00:23:58.280 --> 00:23:58.920] It doesn't exist.
[00:23:59.720 --> 00:24:07.400] But it's fascinating to me that this slightly odd belief that you can bust clouds by simmering and releasing vinegar has some like weird red flag details around it.
[00:24:07.400 --> 00:24:15.640] Divine Truth feels like the kind of channel names that were putting out flat earth content in 2018 when I was talking about it around about the time that video came from.
[00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:18.120] That's now being used to promote the flat earth belief.
[00:24:18.120 --> 00:24:23.080] Pepe memes and Telegram usually equal something pretty right-wing.
[00:24:23.080 --> 00:24:27.240] Combine that with Divine Truth and would be in some pretty dodgy space online.
[00:24:27.240 --> 00:24:29.560] None of it feels like it's overtly there.
[00:24:29.560 --> 00:24:36.520] I haven't seen any evidence that it is overtly in these space, but it does feel close enough that it's hard not to remark on it that it's kind of around.
[00:24:36.840 --> 00:24:45.000] Now, like, I probably don't need to do a big deep dive here because chemtrails are so cartoonishly pseudoscientific that most people know that they're not a thing and even why they're not a thing.
[00:24:45.520 --> 00:24:55.360] In reality, the stuff that you're seeing in the wakes of planes are contrails or vapor trails, which are produced by changes in air pressure when planes are cruising at high altitude.
[00:24:55.360 --> 00:24:59.920] They're not evil chemicals, they're mostly ice crystals and water droplets.
[00:24:59.920 --> 00:25:02.880] The stuff that's in the air already that's just being displaced.
[00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:04.640] Yeah, they're clouds, basically.
[00:25:04.640 --> 00:25:06.560] They're clouds in a long stripe.
[00:25:06.560 --> 00:25:11.760] They're clouds and clouds, incidentally, clouds are weird if you think about them too long.
[00:25:11.760 --> 00:25:13.440] Yeah, they're fucking weird.
[00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:15.200] They're basically not there.
[00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:17.440] The clouds that you see are basically not there.
[00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:20.320] They're like bags of fog, but without the bag.
[00:25:20.320 --> 00:25:23.360] Just like little patches of little collections of fog coming together.
[00:25:23.360 --> 00:25:25.680] And air and water do, that's what they are.
[00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:29.600] Well, no, but I just like that you introduced a con take fog.
[00:25:29.600 --> 00:25:30.240] Yeah.
[00:25:30.560 --> 00:25:32.080] Which isn't in a bag.
[00:25:32.080 --> 00:25:32.880] It's not in a bag.
[00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:36.160] You've introduced putting it into a bag and then removing the bag.
[00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:37.440] They're like fog.
[00:25:37.520 --> 00:25:42.240] No, but they're not because if you say think of fog, you think of it everywhere.
[00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:45.280] Whereas you think of a bag of fog, you think it localized in a small space.
[00:25:45.280 --> 00:25:46.240] And then take away the bag.
[00:25:46.640 --> 00:25:47.680] You're seeing it wrapped in a little.
[00:25:47.760 --> 00:25:49.520] You're seeing it held together in a little space.
[00:25:49.520 --> 00:25:54.320] Find me a better way to describe a cloud than like a bag of fog without the bag.
[00:25:55.520 --> 00:25:56.160] Just fog.
[00:25:56.160 --> 00:25:57.680] No, but I think that's an excellent way of describing.
[00:25:57.760 --> 00:26:01.920] I think it's a great way of, you know, a creative way of describing a cloud.
[00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:04.000] It's a bag of fog without the bag.
[00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:09.280] Air and water do weird things, especially around the whole like evaporation and condensation point.
[00:26:09.280 --> 00:26:23.920] And then if you throw a big metal tube through them at 700 miles an hour, and a tube that has a surface temperature of minus 50 degrees Celsius, no less, we shouldn't be surprised that water droplets are going to form and cluster and do slightly odd-looking things in its wake.
[00:26:23.920 --> 00:26:29.440] Like, speaking of wakes, I always hoped there was a chemtrail equivalent for what follows behind boards.
[00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:31.560] I don't really know why there isn't.
[00:26:31.880 --> 00:26:38.920] Nobody seems to find the patterns that are made on water behind boats to be weird, but they do when it's planes.
[00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:42.920] It'd be much easier to seed things behind your boat as well.
[00:26:42.920 --> 00:26:43.320] Yeah.
[00:26:43.640 --> 00:26:46.760] You could seed the ocean behind your boat, but they never do.
[00:26:46.760 --> 00:26:54.760] But when you look across, when a boat, fast boat's gone past, and then you look a second, look at those weird V shape, but no one seems to bothered by that.
[00:26:54.760 --> 00:26:56.440] It's like, oh, yeah, that was just a boat.
[00:26:56.440 --> 00:26:57.720] Look up in the sky.
[00:26:57.720 --> 00:26:58.520] What is that?
[00:26:58.520 --> 00:27:00.040] Like, it seems, it's a mad to me.
[00:27:00.040 --> 00:27:02.040] That there's a distinction between the two.
[00:27:02.040 --> 00:27:13.000] Now, look, given the weird fluid dynamics that are going, the weird fluid physics rather that are going on with contrail clouds, it's perhaps no surprise that people get scared or paranoid when they see plane trails in the sky.
[00:27:13.000 --> 00:27:17.800] I remember when I first came across the chemtrail conspiracy theory, it's nearly two decades ago.
[00:27:17.800 --> 00:27:25.720] And at the time, when I heard it, it was always put forward by people older than me who were arguing, well, you never used to see these in the sky when we were kids.
[00:27:25.720 --> 00:27:31.400] I remember growing up, we didn't see these trails in the sky when we were kids, and now we see them everywhere and we don't see them anymore.
[00:27:31.400 --> 00:27:34.200] But A, you did, just didn't notice them.
[00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:36.200] Yes, I found that an odd argument.
[00:27:36.200 --> 00:27:36.520] Yeah.
[00:27:36.520 --> 00:27:37.720] What was B, by the way?
[00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:39.880] There were probably fewer planes then.
[00:27:39.880 --> 00:27:40.680] You're going to have it.
[00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:43.000] Congratulations, have a third pin, Alex.
[00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:46.440] I think we have taken one of the, we took one of the pins out with the acetate acid.
[00:27:47.560 --> 00:27:51.560] It is the first pin that I've given back to you as a third, in the space of a third pin.
[00:27:51.560 --> 00:27:59.960] But yeah, when I first came across this, and they said you didn't see these when we were kids, I always found that odd because I remember very distinctly in infant school.
[00:27:59.960 --> 00:28:02.520] So before primary school, so I was under the age of seven.
[00:28:02.520 --> 00:28:06.520] I remember lying in the field behind the school on a sunny playtime.
[00:28:06.520 --> 00:28:08.120] There were those dandelion clocks.
[00:28:08.120 --> 00:28:16.320] I remember lying on the long grass among the dandelion clocks, looking up and seeing those trails in the sky, because I used to call them skyscrapers.
[00:28:16.320 --> 00:28:16.800] Okay.
[00:28:16.800 --> 00:28:17.520] When I was a kid.
[00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:18.240] Yeah.
[00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:22.960] Because I'd heard that word before, but I'd never really seen a building taller than three stories.
[00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:26.080] Other than maybe a hospital, because my sister spent a lot of time in hospitals.
[00:28:26.080 --> 00:28:28.640] So there's some planes that are scraping the sky.
[00:28:28.640 --> 00:28:35.920] Yeah, what else could skyscraper mean other than the planes that go across the sky scraping clouds along with them?
[00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:38.800] That's definitely what a skyscraper has to be.
[00:28:38.800 --> 00:28:39.920] So I call them skyscrapers.
[00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:40.960] I'd heard the word.
[00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:42.320] That word must mean something.
[00:28:42.320 --> 00:28:43.600] Oh, that's scraping the sky.
[00:28:43.600 --> 00:28:44.720] That must be what that is.
[00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:48.320] It's a better term for that than for a really tall building.
[00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:54.480] Anyway, so they definitely existed before 1990 because I was six and seven in 1990.
[00:28:54.800 --> 00:28:58.640] I was six in the summer of 1990 and turned seven just at the end of it.
[00:28:58.640 --> 00:29:11.600] But yeah, so maybe when it comes to the generation older than me, the ones who grew up in the 70s, it might well be true that they didn't see many trails in the sky, not because the high altitude physics worked differently then, but because there were simply fewer flights back then.
[00:29:11.600 --> 00:29:12.480] And I looked this up.
[00:29:12.560 --> 00:29:14.320] The data is available from the government website.
[00:29:14.320 --> 00:29:15.200] You can find this out.
[00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:21.200] In 1950, for example, there were 195,000 air transport movements in the UK.
[00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:22.240] That's the term they use.
[00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:24.720] Air transport, but that's just when someone has a poo on a plane.
[00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:30.080] It is when they have a poo on a plane and then they just flush and it comes straight down and it kills someone in that urban myth.
[00:29:30.080 --> 00:29:33.280] No, an air transport movement is a takeoff or a landing.
[00:29:33.280 --> 00:29:35.760] It's like the combined number of takeoffs and landing.
[00:29:35.760 --> 00:29:36.080] Okay.
[00:29:36.080 --> 00:29:39.040] So things that have happened, events that have happened at an airport.
[00:29:39.040 --> 00:29:40.720] So you divide it by two?
[00:29:41.040 --> 00:29:46.160] Almost, because most flights are going to be counted in there once because they're going from here to somewhere else.
[00:29:46.160 --> 00:29:49.960] But there'll be some flights that were taking off in the UK and also landing in the UK.
[00:29:49.960 --> 00:29:51.520] And so they'll be double counted in there.
[00:29:51.520 --> 00:29:54.240] But I think the numbers are negligible enough to not worry about.
[00:29:54.240 --> 00:30:00.040] And also, we can say that we'll be doing an apples to apples comparison because we're using the same metric regardless.
[00:30:00.040 --> 00:30:03.240] So let's assume that each of those is basically a flight.
[00:29:59.760 --> 00:30:06.840] There will also be some flights who take off and never land because they crash.
[00:30:07.080 --> 00:30:07.560] That is true.
[00:30:07.560 --> 00:30:08.040] Yes.
[00:30:08.040 --> 00:30:10.120] But there's very, very, very, very, very few of those.
[00:30:10.360 --> 00:30:11.880] And there's even fewer that work the other way around.
[00:30:12.040 --> 00:30:12.680] Not the other way around.
[00:30:12.680 --> 00:30:16.040] They don't take off, but nothing lands that never took off.
[00:30:17.560 --> 00:30:25.320] But by so 195,000 in 1950, by 1970, that number had trebled to 607, the 607,000 air transport movements.
[00:30:25.320 --> 00:30:33.480] By 1990, when I was lying in that field behind my infant school, it was up to 1.37 million flights.
[00:30:34.200 --> 00:30:37.000] Yeah, 1,369,000 flights.
[00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:41.000] By 2010, it was 1,972,000 flights.
[00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:44.200] By 2019, it was 2.2 million flights.
[00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:48.360] By 2020, it was back down to 800,000 flights for obvious reasons.
[00:30:48.840 --> 00:30:54.600] But on average, there are 10 times as many flight events in the UK now as there were in 1950.
[00:30:54.600 --> 00:30:58.280] So 10 times as many chances of seeing a plane fly overhead.
[00:30:58.280 --> 00:31:04.440] And as I wrote that line earlier this afternoon, I literally heard a plane fly overhead from the nearby Liverpool airport.
[00:31:04.440 --> 00:31:05.560] You live quite near to the airport.
[00:31:05.560 --> 00:31:07.400] Yeah, we live not too far from the airport.
[00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:08.280] And that's the other thing.
[00:31:08.280 --> 00:31:11.080] Your proximity to an airport is going to make a difference as well.
[00:31:11.080 --> 00:31:22.760] So like while there were 195,000 flights in 1950, I couldn't find the data in it, but I imagine they were eskewed around some of the bigger airports and they're now going to be more diffuse around some of the more broader airports.
[00:31:22.760 --> 00:31:33.800] So if you lived in Huddersfield in 1950, you might have been less likely to see a plane in the air than if you lived there's less likely to be a plane going over Huddersfield.
[00:31:33.880 --> 00:31:35.240] Yeah, exactly.
[00:31:35.560 --> 00:31:37.720] And on top of all that, we've got confirmation bias.
[00:31:37.720 --> 00:31:52.960] You know, I happen to remember specifically noticing aeroplane trails when I was a kid, but if you didn't, your memory might instead be filled with the sunshine days of your youth, which you're comparing not to the sunny days of today, which still happen, but to the days that aren't sunny that you would expect to be sunny.
[00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:54.080] How come it isn't sunny today?
[00:31:54.080 --> 00:31:55.280] It was always sunny when I was a kid.
[00:31:55.280 --> 00:31:57.120] I bet it's them bloody chemtrails.
[00:31:57.120 --> 00:31:58.400] Why is it so cloudy?
[00:31:58.400 --> 00:32:01.120] I remember this sunny day 30 years ago.
[00:32:01.120 --> 00:32:02.800] It's got to be chemtrails.
[00:32:02.800 --> 00:32:08.080] Similarly, when it comes to the vinegar simmerers, we're almost certainly looking at a huge slice of confirmation bias.
[00:32:08.080 --> 00:32:11.600] Whenever I notice the clouds go away, it must have been because of my vinegar.
[00:32:11.600 --> 00:32:15.360] If the clouds haven't gone away, I clearly haven't moved long enough yet.
[00:32:15.600 --> 00:32:18.000] Leave it for a few days, eventually going to go.
[00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:20.880] But there's also the action of time, as you're saying, Alice.
[00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:22.640] Time is going to play a factor here.
[00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:24.080] Clouds move all the time.
[00:32:24.080 --> 00:32:28.080] We don't notice it because they're big and they're high and they're slow.
[00:32:28.080 --> 00:32:29.360] But they do move all the time.
[00:32:29.360 --> 00:32:31.760] They're constantly moving, probably quite quickly, in fact.
[00:32:31.760 --> 00:32:32.880] It's just not from our perspective.
[00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:42.960] If you see a cloud now, chances are when you check back again in 5, 10, 15 minutes, half an hour, it'll be nowhere to be seen or it'll change substantially.
[00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:51.200] That's going to be especially the case for contrails, the ones that are created by the movement of an airplane, because you notice them for their naturally non-occurring shape.
[00:32:51.200 --> 00:32:52.960] They're in this very specific straight line.
[00:32:52.960 --> 00:32:54.240] They're going to dissipate.
[00:32:54.400 --> 00:32:56.240] They were created by a plane that's now gone.
[00:32:56.240 --> 00:32:57.520] They're going to dissipate.
[00:32:57.520 --> 00:33:04.720] You check back 20 minutes later, you've got your vinegar out, hay pressed, or you've cured the sky, or the cloud has just dissipated like it's going to do.
[00:33:05.040 --> 00:33:07.840] You know, you can see it most of the time.
[00:33:07.840 --> 00:33:14.640] If you are lying on your back among dandelion clocks and can see and watch the clouds, you see them move.
[00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:16.240] Like they move really fucking fast.
[00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:16.800] Yeah, yeah.
[00:33:16.800 --> 00:33:23.360] When you think about how much, or if you see the the shadows of clouds on the ground and how fast a shadow moves, that's how fast the cloud is moving.
[00:33:23.360 --> 00:33:26.320] But obviously, you've got perspective to to make it uh look different.
[00:33:26.320 --> 00:33:28.560] Chemtrail fears are nothing new, of course.
[00:33:28.560 --> 00:35:04.400] In the December 2014 episode of be reasonable i interviewed harry rhodes for chemtrail projects uk whose fear at the time was that the government of the uk was spraying us with chemicals that would give us alzheimers and shorten our lifespan i pointed out at the time that spraying the entire country also means spraying the government and their friends and family yeah but he said that's because the people in charge have got access to the cure i was like right but who in the government has access to that and how far down does it go he said well prime minister david cameron has it obviously yeah and former prime minister gordon brown he knew all about it and deputy prime minister nick clegg but i remember saying to him nick clegg has he not done well to get isn't it really bad idea for nick clegg to have it because he's going to be out on his ass as soon as this coalition government collapses and then he's just given his family alzheimer's and himself alzheimers for no reason but again he didn't really uh see it that way well that's why he moved to the states as soon as he uh as soon as he left government no chemtrails in america the rather some of these videos are american we can look back even further than that one good way to see what people were worried about a while ago and especially when it comes to conspiracy theory how their fears have changed over time you can see what they've asked about using freedom of information laws if you go to the website what do they know it logs f oy requests and their responses over time the earliest reference to chemtrails i found on what do they know was from 2008 someone called veronica chapman she asked the department for environment food and rural affairs so defra quote for some time now i and many others have observed trails left by low-ish flying aircraft these trails do not disperse rapidly, as do those ice crystal vapor trails from high-flying jets.
[00:35:04.400 --> 00:35:16.720] Would you be so kind as to tell me the chemical composition of these slowly dispersing trails, who authorizes them, and what no effects, she meant none, they may have on the population of the United Kingdom?
[00:35:16.720 --> 00:35:22.400] Which is a very lovely, polite inquiry, to which she received a polite response from DEFRA: quote: Thank you for your email.
[00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:25.200] Unfortunately, DEFRA does not hold this information.
[00:35:25.200 --> 00:35:27.520] We believe it's an issue for the Department of Transport.
[00:35:27.520 --> 00:35:32.320] Veronica, however, was not to be put off by a simple, this has got literally nothing to do with us.
[00:35:32.560 --> 00:35:36.800] She responded, Are you suggesting that the environment is not affected?
[00:35:36.800 --> 00:35:41.920] That whatever is in these trails does not fall to the ground and enter the food/slash water chains?
[00:35:41.920 --> 00:35:51.760] I would still like to know your reasoning as to how something man-made that is falling from the sky has been given the all-clear as far as earth-bound living organisms are concerned.
[00:35:51.760 --> 00:35:58.000] As far as the environment is concerned, if you wish to put it like that, is the air we breathe being continually monitored?
[00:35:58.000 --> 00:35:59.760] If so, what are the results?
[00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:06.720] Do the air, water, and food supplies contain any unusual substances referenced back, say, to 30 years ago?
[00:36:06.720 --> 00:36:08.800] Again, DEFRA did their best to respond.
[00:36:08.800 --> 00:36:14.400] They said, In response to your recent inquiry concerning emissions from airplanes and air quality, this is a matter for the Department for Transport.
[00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:20.800] But I can confirm we monitor and assess air quality throughout the UK in accordance with EU air quality legislation.
[00:36:20.800 --> 00:36:22.560] DEFRA doing their best here.
[00:36:22.560 --> 00:36:23.440] Yeah, bless them.
[00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:26.080] Surprisingly, that wasn't enough, Veronica.
[00:36:26.720 --> 00:36:36.240] Thank you for your response and for answering one of my questions, i.e., to the effect that you are responsible for monitoring our air, and that is to EU quality standards.
[00:36:36.240 --> 00:36:43.040] May I therefore please have answers to my remaining questions, which I will repeat, slightly rephrased for your guidance.
[00:36:43.040 --> 00:36:45.600] And she asks about drinking water and things.
[00:36:45.600 --> 00:36:56.000] She gets told that drinking water is monitored by Drinking Water Inspectorate and food safety is monitored by the Food Standards Agency, and that air traffic is monitored by the Department for Transportation.
[00:36:56.320 --> 00:37:01.480] Veronica comes back yet again, quote, Dear Defra unhelpline.
[00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:05.480] Oh, yeah, yeah, you see what she's done there in an FOI request.
[00:37:05.720 --> 00:37:11.960] Yeah, thank you very much for your stonewalling and attempts to divert this FOI request.
[00:37:11.960 --> 00:37:15.320] Divert to the relevant part.
[00:37:15.640 --> 00:37:23.000] However, I have, in the meanwhile, had the good fortune to be told via a friend to check up on chemtrails.
[00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:29.000] When I did that, I saw many, many pictures from all over the world looking exactly like the sky markings I tried to describe.
[00:37:29.000 --> 00:37:29.880] And guess what?
[00:37:29.880 --> 00:37:31.080] Exclamation mark.
[00:37:31.080 --> 00:37:33.160] The answer to my questions were already known.
[00:37:33.160 --> 00:37:34.440] Exclamation mark.
[00:37:34.440 --> 00:37:42.040] These trails, in quotes, contain such substances as barium, open brackets, radioactive, question mark.
[00:37:43.320 --> 00:37:49.320] Barium meal given to x-ray patients, question mark, closed brackets, and aluminium.
[00:37:49.320 --> 00:37:53.720] I'm breathing, eating, and drinking barium and aluminium.
[00:37:53.720 --> 00:37:56.760] And the Department of the Environment doesn't mind.
[00:37:56.760 --> 00:37:58.600] This is within EU guidelines.
[00:37:58.600 --> 00:38:00.120] Question marks it all of us.
[00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:04.040] Well, I certainly mind, even if you and the EU don't.
[00:38:04.040 --> 00:38:06.120] But then apparently it gets worse.
[00:38:06.120 --> 00:38:11.480] This chemtrail soup also contains nanotechnology-site pathogens.
[00:38:11.480 --> 00:38:15.240] At which point she pastes in a definition of the word pathogen.
[00:38:15.240 --> 00:38:20.920] And these can accumulate and link together to destroy the electrochemical balance of any living creature.
[00:38:20.920 --> 00:38:28.600] Or, to put it another way, quote, this is a quote within the quote, they are very bold, not nice at all.
[00:38:28.600 --> 00:38:29.000] Yeah.
[00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:29.800] Close that quote.
[00:38:30.200 --> 00:38:36.760] All this information, she said, comes from qazon.org/slash forums, which includes a test to see if you are affected.
[00:38:36.760 --> 00:38:38.120] You will be.
[00:38:38.120 --> 00:38:40.040] And various detox methods.
[00:38:40.040 --> 00:38:48.640] Or, to put this another way, quote, the EU guidelines are obviously a very sick joke devised by some very sick people, unquote, within her quote.
[00:38:48.960 --> 00:38:53.200] DEFRA, you and your EU have been absolutely no help whatsoever.
[00:38:53.200 --> 00:38:59.360] In fact, deliberate hindrance in convert the commas would be a far more appicide description.
[00:38:59.360 --> 00:39:01.680] That's her freedom of information request.
[00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:04.080] I don't know what she's requesting.
[00:39:04.080 --> 00:39:06.000] Anyway, she gets a response.
[00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:24.400] She then goes back to say, Dear sir or madam, along with the information I received from elsewhere, came a homeopathic, there's your pin, Alice, detoxification method designed to kill without any side effects any parasitic activity that I may very well have inadvertently breathed in under your EU guidelines.
[00:39:24.400 --> 00:39:36.960] Since you presumably breathe the same EU guidelined air that I do, all I can do is wish you good luck in the long term with skin lesions that just don't seem to want to heal no matter what you do.
[00:39:36.960 --> 00:39:37.360] Okay.
[00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:39.280] Your sincerely, Veronica.
[00:39:39.280 --> 00:39:40.880] Eventually, she does hear back.
[00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:42.160] That's a freedom of information request.
[00:39:42.240 --> 00:39:42.800] I love it.
[00:39:43.280 --> 00:39:47.840] Brilliantly ironic if she'd only asked the Department of Transport and then they've told her exactly all of that.
[00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:51.760] The Department of Transport would have come back and said, Yeah, they're chemtrails.
[00:39:51.760 --> 00:39:53.440] They're full of aluminium and barium.
[00:39:53.440 --> 00:39:56.640] Like a barium meal that you might have when you're getting an x-ray.
[00:39:56.640 --> 00:39:58.960] Well, very quick pin to take straight back out.
[00:39:59.120 --> 00:39:59.520] Okay.
[00:39:59.520 --> 00:40:01.760] She does actually get a response from the Department for Transport.
[00:40:01.760 --> 00:40:02.080] Okay.
[00:40:02.080 --> 00:40:08.080] Because DEFRA, as part of their response to FOI, have to do the reasonable efforts to try and help out.
[00:40:08.080 --> 00:40:08.240] Okay.
[00:40:08.560 --> 00:40:09.040] They fold it.
[00:40:09.120 --> 00:40:09.760] So they see she's there.
[00:40:09.840 --> 00:40:10.560] Oh, yeah, of course she did.
[00:40:10.640 --> 00:40:12.480] And the Department of Transport answered.
[00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:18.240] And they answered to say that the trails that Veronica can see in the sky, are ice particles and water vapor.
[00:40:18.240 --> 00:40:20.400] And the planes she's seeing, they're just commercial flights.
[00:40:20.400 --> 00:40:21.280] So, who authorized them?
[00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:22.400] Well, they're commercial flights.
[00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:22.560] Yes.
[00:40:22.720 --> 00:40:26.480] And there's no scientific evidence for any health concerns about contrails.
[00:40:26.480 --> 00:40:44.280] Though there is some exploration as to the contribution of contrails to climate change and whether that amount of cloud is contributing to climate change, and whether mitigation, if airplanes took mitigation methods to avoid producing contrails, would that actually come in CO2 negative or CO2 positive?
[00:40:44.280 --> 00:40:47.320] Could you be like expelling more CO2 to try and avoid doing it?
[00:40:47.320 --> 00:40:47.800] Sure.
[00:40:47.800 --> 00:40:50.760] All very reasonable, all very patiently explained.
[00:40:50.760 --> 00:40:52.840] And so, Veronica said, Thanks very much.
[00:40:52.840 --> 00:40:54.280] My fears are allayed.
[00:40:54.280 --> 00:40:55.800] I really appreciate it.
[00:40:55.800 --> 00:41:15.640] Yeah, all inevitably ignored by Veronica, who said, Thank you for the documentation on contrails, which is totally irrelevant because my question was about chemtrails, which have been analyzed to contain barium and aluminium, etc., and also some for of nanoparticles, which brackets possibly create Morgellin's disease.
[00:41:15.640 --> 00:41:25.640] I'm not in the slightest bit interested in contrails left by high-flying aircraft, even where these ice crystals may contain a small amount of unburned kerosene, brackets, paraffin.
[00:41:25.640 --> 00:41:44.040] The unusual markings of this FOI request relate to chemtrails, brackets, google it, exclamation mark, close brackets, left by low-flying aircraft in various shapes, such as Vs and X's, parallel lines, etc.
[00:41:44.280 --> 00:41:48.120] Sometimes these cover the entire sky as they spread out.
[00:41:48.120 --> 00:41:57.800] According to independent analysts, these chemtrails comprise such substances as barium, which is, of course, radioactive, aluminium, and other materials.
[00:41:57.800 --> 00:42:08.680] There is good information on the internet to state that these chemtrails also contain nanoparticles, brackets, Google it, exclamation mark, close brackets, which cause Morgellin's disease.
[00:42:08.680 --> 00:42:10.840] Brackets, Google it, okay, good.
[00:42:12.360 --> 00:42:14.880] Chemtrails are what form the submit this R request.
[00:42:14.600 --> 00:42:17.520] I would like confirmation of the exact chemical composition.
[00:42:14.680 --> 00:42:20.720] I would like confirmation of exactly how long it's been going on for.
[00:42:21.040 --> 00:42:23.200] Brackets, some have said two decades.
[00:42:23.200 --> 00:42:25.920] I would like to know who authorizes this and why.
[00:42:25.920 --> 00:42:30.240] Since I breathe the air, eat the food from the food chain, drink the water.
[00:42:30.240 --> 00:42:32.240] I think I have the right to know.
[00:42:32.240 --> 00:42:33.520] Don't you?
[00:42:33.840 --> 00:42:34.800] And so it goes on.
[00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:36.720] That's just the oldest FOI trailer could find.
[00:42:36.720 --> 00:42:37.600] I bloody love seeing this.
[00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:38.480] What year was that?
[00:42:38.480 --> 00:42:39.520] 2008.
[00:42:39.520 --> 00:42:41.440] It's by no means the only one.
[00:42:41.440 --> 00:42:50.240] In 2009, John FOI, the Ministry of Defense, over the chemical spraying of the public, asking, Can you provide any documentation to clarify chemtrails?
[00:42:50.240 --> 00:42:53.280] In 2002, the MOD admitted spraying the public.
[00:42:53.280 --> 00:42:57.920] If this is still the case, as I believe it is, what is the purpose and who funds the spraying?
[00:42:57.920 --> 00:42:59.840] What chemicals are used in the spraying?
[00:42:59.840 --> 00:43:02.480] The MOD said, we have no information on this.
[00:43:02.480 --> 00:43:17.360] In 2011, Freeman Kev, who signed off his FOI, Kevin Commer, as commonly called, he asked the Department for Transport about the high-altitude spraying, which has been going on overhead in Britain and other countries for some years now.
[00:43:17.360 --> 00:43:20.000] I am not referring to contrails.
[00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:31.440] Please do not make the mistake of referring to any ice crystals forming around unburned jet fuel or other such references to contrails, which I am quite aware of and I understand just fine.
[00:43:31.440 --> 00:43:34.880] Kev was not happy with the response that he received.
[00:43:34.880 --> 00:43:35.440] I bet he wasn't.
[00:43:35.600 --> 00:43:36.720] I think you can imagine why.
[00:43:38.320 --> 00:43:52.080] And in 2021, Anne asked the Civil Aviation Authority to receive details of the airline's aircraft involved in the flight paths of these aircraft, which have been spraying chemtrails over West Yorkshire and Leeds area in particular, during April 2021.
[00:43:52.080 --> 00:43:57.680] The most recent occurrence has been today, 26th of April 2021, between the hours of 9 a.m.
[00:43:57.680 --> 00:43:58.720] and 10:30 a.m.
[00:43:58.960 --> 00:44:09.960] She said, I'm very concerned regarding the chemicals being sprayed as they are likely to be harmful to all life and are probably causing terraforming and geoengineering of the environment for nefarious purposes.
[00:44:09.960 --> 00:44:12.520] Please do not try and tell me these are contrails.
[00:44:12.520 --> 00:44:17.480] I've seen chemtrails, I know the difference, and I have photos to prove it.
[00:44:17.480 --> 00:44:23.560] The CAA did not have the information that Anne sought and still didn't have it two years later when M.
[00:44:23.560 --> 00:44:25.720] Horne asked a similar question.
[00:44:26.040 --> 00:44:27.400] It's not Mark Horne.
[00:44:27.400 --> 00:44:30.120] No, it's not a former of this podcast in Parish.
[00:44:30.120 --> 00:44:31.400] It's H-O-R-N.
[00:44:31.400 --> 00:44:33.080] So I don't think it is Mark Horne.
[00:44:33.400 --> 00:44:35.480] That could be just a, I was going to say a cunning disguise.
[00:44:35.640 --> 00:44:37.160] It could be an especially disguise.
[00:44:39.160 --> 00:44:40.280] If that's how he's done it.
[00:44:40.280 --> 00:44:41.800] Unless it's a double bluff.
[00:44:41.800 --> 00:44:45.320] Oh, Mark is smart enough to come up with a better disguise than that.
[00:44:45.640 --> 00:44:46.840] I could go on.
[00:44:46.840 --> 00:44:48.040] I won't go on too much.
[00:44:48.040 --> 00:44:59.160] But there was a February 2025 request from John, which included 18 exclamation marks, a bit shoot video, and the final question: Don't you care about humanity's future?
[00:44:59.160 --> 00:45:00.920] Do you have kids?
[00:45:00.920 --> 00:45:03.240] Which was beyond the scope of the Met Office.
[00:45:03.240 --> 00:45:06.360] That was not something the Met Office were prepared to answer.
[00:45:06.360 --> 00:45:16.600] And an April 2025 FOI from Roy to the Department for Environment, Food, and Rural Affairs, asking for information about, quote, blocking out sun by chemtrails.
[00:45:16.600 --> 00:45:26.440] That FOI is still open, but I doubt the answers will be much different to what Veronica received in 2008, 17 years previously.
[00:45:26.440 --> 00:45:44.360] I don't suspect the chemtrailers or the vinegar simmerers are especially dangerous or a major threat, other than to the productivity of governmental freedom of information departments, but neither were the flat earthers, other than it was another thing to keep the paranoic fires burning and the conspiracy cauldrons bubbling.
[00:45:44.360 --> 00:45:58.960] I'm seeing more and more people falling back on the geoengineering chemtrail conspiracy theories lately, particularly as the COVID forever lockdowns didn't happen and the 5G towers were forgotten about and the vaccine didn't kill us all.
[00:45:58.960 --> 00:46:01.760] And this kind of rhetoric and fear can have some effect.
[00:46:01.760 --> 00:46:04.480] Earlier this month, there were reports that eight states in the U.S.
[00:46:04.560 --> 00:46:07.520] introduced legislation to outlaw chemtrails.
[00:46:07.520 --> 00:46:13.200] Florida and Tennessee legislation prohibits the geoengineering or weather modification.
[00:46:13.200 --> 00:46:25.600] And Louisiana ordered the Department of Environmental Quality to record reported chemtrail sightings and pass complaints over to the Louisiana Air National Guard, despite chemtrails very much not being a real thing.
[00:46:25.600 --> 00:46:26.880] Yeah, they don't exist.
[00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:44.240] Yeah, it's unclear how much these legislators believe in this cause or how much they just want to pander to the conspiracist base that got their team elected while tainting by association any efforts to mitigate climate change that might be passively mischaracterized as chemtrail geoengineering.
[00:46:44.240 --> 00:47:00.320] Thankfully, we're not seeing that in the UK legislature just yet, though I do know for a fact there are people talking to their local MPs about it at a time when those MPs have much more pressing matters to attend to, because at least one of those MPs has asked me about it, whether we knew much about it.
[00:47:00.320 --> 00:47:01.520] I hope it stays that way.
[00:47:01.520 --> 00:47:02.880] I hope it stays fringe.
[00:47:02.880 --> 00:47:10.480] And I hope the most that we have to fear from these chemtrail cloudbusters is the faint whiff of warm vinegar on a cloudy afternoon.
[00:47:14.000 --> 00:47:15.760] So I've just got back from Mallorca.
[00:47:15.760 --> 00:47:16.160] Yes.
[00:47:16.480 --> 00:47:18.000] I've not been back very long at all.
[00:47:18.000 --> 00:47:18.880] And it was a lovely time.
[00:47:18.880 --> 00:47:20.240] It was very sunny, nice.
[00:47:20.320 --> 00:47:26.000] There are many stories I can regale you both with from my time in Mallorca featuring such characters as German Dad.
[00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:26.720] German Dad.
[00:47:26.720 --> 00:47:28.560] German Dad was a lovely guy.
[00:47:28.560 --> 00:47:31.240] There was the lifeguard who looked like Jay Novella.
[00:47:31.240 --> 00:47:31.720] Okay.
[00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:37.160] He was there all week, except the Saturday and Saturday off, where we decided that lifeguard was Bob Novella.
[00:47:37.160 --> 00:47:37.560] Fair.
[00:47:37.560 --> 00:47:41.560] Didn't look anything like Bob Novella, but nobody knows what Bob looks like, so it's fine.
[00:47:44.120 --> 00:47:46.680] There was the most judgmental man in the world.
[00:47:46.680 --> 00:47:47.800] Wow, he was there.
[00:47:48.600 --> 00:47:49.560] That was a good time.
[00:47:49.560 --> 00:47:51.720] But you've given him that moniker.
[00:47:51.720 --> 00:47:52.120] Yes.
[00:47:52.120 --> 00:47:53.800] That makes you quite judgmental.
[00:47:54.440 --> 00:47:57.000] Have you outjudged the most judgmental man in the world?
[00:47:57.000 --> 00:48:03.640] The most judgmental man in the world unironically made use of the word muff for the first time in 20 years.
[00:48:03.640 --> 00:48:03.880] Wow.
[00:48:04.600 --> 00:48:05.640] Which was appalling.
[00:48:05.640 --> 00:48:07.800] There was the moment where I found ants in the sugar.
[00:48:07.800 --> 00:48:08.680] That was exciting.
[00:48:08.680 --> 00:48:09.160] Nice.
[00:48:09.560 --> 00:48:11.240] So I'm not going to tell you any of those stories.
[00:48:11.240 --> 00:48:11.720] No.
[00:48:11.720 --> 00:48:18.120] I'm not even going to mention the fact that the ceiling of the airport collapsed the day after I was there.
[00:48:18.120 --> 00:48:18.520] Really?
[00:48:18.840 --> 00:48:25.160] As I came up on the news, and it was like literally a corridor I had walked down, but 36 hours earlier.
[00:48:25.480 --> 00:48:26.200] And the roof would fall.
[00:48:26.280 --> 00:48:27.880] You're making it sound quite suspicious now.
[00:48:28.920 --> 00:48:30.120] Yeah, you are.
[00:48:30.440 --> 00:48:37.000] And the journey back, the flight got delayed, and it was horrible, and it was late at night, and it was very stressful, and it was loud.
[00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:43.080] And it was, frankly, what happened was I got back and went to the cinema and watched 28 Years Later.
[00:48:43.080 --> 00:48:44.040] Oh, nice.
[00:48:44.040 --> 00:48:45.800] I fucking love 28 Years Later.
[00:48:45.800 --> 00:48:46.040] Really?
[00:48:46.040 --> 00:48:49.240] Because 28 months later, what it was called, 28 Weeks Later was terrible.
[00:48:49.480 --> 00:48:50.360] Yeah, it wasn't looking at all.
[00:48:50.360 --> 00:48:50.760] It was awful.
[00:48:50.840 --> 00:48:51.720] It wasn't very good.
[00:48:51.720 --> 00:48:53.640] I really liked 28 Days Later, though.
[00:48:53.640 --> 00:48:54.280] Excellent film.
[00:48:54.280 --> 00:48:55.960] 28 Days Later was that one of my favourite films.
[00:48:56.200 --> 00:48:58.360] I think 28 Years is a better film.
[00:48:59.320 --> 00:49:00.280] That might be strong.
[00:49:00.280 --> 00:49:01.880] In fairness, that might be strong.
[00:49:01.880 --> 00:49:04.760] The last act of 28 Days Later is a bit weaker.
[00:49:04.760 --> 00:49:11.480] Once we get to like Christopher Ecclesden and stuff, it gets Killian Murphy taking down all the Marines or whatever they were.
[00:49:11.720 --> 00:49:12.680] That's a little bit weaker.
[00:49:12.680 --> 00:49:13.800] It lets it down a little bit at that point.
[00:49:13.880 --> 00:49:17.920] And there were like three different endings that they did for 28 Days as well.
[00:49:14.920 --> 00:49:20.560] So they shot two of them and one was only storyboarded.
[00:49:21.200 --> 00:49:23.920] But the two that they shot both involved.
[00:49:23.920 --> 00:49:27.760] Sorry, the alternative one that they shot involved Killian Murphy dying.
[00:49:27.760 --> 00:49:28.400] Right, yeah.
[00:49:28.400 --> 00:49:31.440] That didn't play, from what I remember, that didn't play well with test audiences.
[00:49:31.440 --> 00:49:37.040] So they did the one where they survive and they're living in Cumbria and write, I think they're writing things with sheets.
[00:49:37.040 --> 00:49:38.000] Yeah, yeah, bed sheets.
[00:49:38.160 --> 00:49:39.200] As the plane goes overhead.
[00:49:39.200 --> 00:49:43.760] And there was a third alternative ending that they didn't shoot to the but they did storyboard.
[00:49:43.840 --> 00:49:45.680] Was it on a dream and he's still in the hospital?
[00:49:46.000 --> 00:50:01.520] Well, at the moment they reach Christopher Eccleston's character, rather than meeting Christopher Eccleston's character at that moment, instead they come across someone who has the cure 

Prompt 2: Key Takeaways

Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.

Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...". 

Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive. 

IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}

Prompt 3: Segments

Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.

For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)  
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion

IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
  "segments": [
    {
      "segment_title": "Topic Discussion", 
      "timestamp": "01:15:30",
      "key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
      "segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
    }
  ]
}

Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.

Prompt 4: Media Mentions

Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:

Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)  
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)

DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names

IMPORTANT: 
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
  "media_mentions": [
    {
      "title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
      "category": "Book",
      "author_artist": "N/A",
      "context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
      "context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
      "timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
    }
  ]
}

If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}

Prompt 5: Context Setup

You are an expert data extractor tasked with analyzing a podcast transcript. 
I will provide you with part 2 of 2 from a podcast transcript. 
I will then ask you to extract different types of information from this content in subsequent messages. Please confirm you have received and understood the transcript content.

Transcript section:
[00:48:51.720 --> 00:48:53.640] I really liked 28 Days Later, though.
[00:48:53.640 --> 00:48:54.280] Excellent film.
[00:48:54.280 --> 00:48:55.960] 28 Days Later was that one of my favourite films.
[00:48:56.200 --> 00:48:58.360] I think 28 Years is a better film.
[00:48:59.320 --> 00:49:00.280] That might be strong.
[00:49:00.280 --> 00:49:01.880] In fairness, that might be strong.
[00:49:01.880 --> 00:49:04.760] The last act of 28 Days Later is a bit weaker.
[00:49:04.760 --> 00:49:11.480] Once we get to like Christopher Ecclesden and stuff, it gets Killian Murphy taking down all the Marines or whatever they were.
[00:49:11.720 --> 00:49:12.680] That's a little bit weaker.
[00:49:12.680 --> 00:49:13.800] It lets it down a little bit at that point.
[00:49:13.880 --> 00:49:17.920] And there were like three different endings that they did for 28 Days as well.
[00:49:14.920 --> 00:49:20.560] So they shot two of them and one was only storyboarded.
[00:49:21.200 --> 00:49:23.920] But the two that they shot both involved.
[00:49:23.920 --> 00:49:27.760] Sorry, the alternative one that they shot involved Killian Murphy dying.
[00:49:27.760 --> 00:49:28.400] Right, yeah.
[00:49:28.400 --> 00:49:31.440] That didn't play, from what I remember, that didn't play well with test audiences.
[00:49:31.440 --> 00:49:37.040] So they did the one where they survive and they're living in Cumbria and write, I think they're writing things with sheets.
[00:49:37.040 --> 00:49:38.000] Yeah, yeah, bed sheets.
[00:49:38.160 --> 00:49:39.200] As the plane goes overhead.
[00:49:39.200 --> 00:49:43.760] And there was a third alternative ending that they didn't shoot to the but they did storyboard.
[00:49:43.840 --> 00:49:45.680] Was it on a dream and he's still in the hospital?
[00:49:46.000 --> 00:50:01.520] Well, at the moment they reach Christopher Eccleston's character, rather than meeting Christopher Eccleston's character at that moment, instead they come across someone who has the cure for the plague and they're using it to cure the dad, you know, the dad character who gets infected with the body.
[00:50:01.600 --> 00:50:07.040] But the cure's just in a little girl's head and they have to kill the girl to get the cure out and then they don't do that.
[00:50:07.040 --> 00:50:14.960] Well, no, the cure turns out to be a blood transfusion, a 100% blood transfusion, take all of your blood out and completely replace it.
[00:50:15.120 --> 00:50:16.320] And that was the cure.
[00:50:16.320 --> 00:50:24.000] And so Killian Murphy's character sacrifices himself to save the dad so he can be with his daughter because you've got that story between the dad and the daughter.
[00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:24.880] And that was probably the alternative.
[00:50:24.960 --> 00:50:26.400] They're going to do a full blood transfusion.
[00:50:26.400 --> 00:50:28.320] Somebody has to give all of their blood.
[00:50:28.320 --> 00:50:32.080] Yeah, they need enough blood to kill somebody else.
[00:50:32.080 --> 00:50:33.040] That's why they never did it.
[00:50:33.440 --> 00:50:34.080] It's terrible.
[00:50:34.160 --> 00:50:34.400] That's not the same thing.
[00:50:34.560 --> 00:50:38.640] But also, because they had established that a single drop of blood was enough to establish an infection.
[00:50:38.640 --> 00:50:45.040] And it's like you can't realistically flush every single drop of blood out of somebody to replace it with other blood.
[00:50:45.440 --> 00:50:45.840] It can't be.
[00:50:46.000 --> 00:50:48.000] And that's why they didn't go down that ending.
[00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:50.560] But 28 Years, I think, is a better film.
[00:50:50.560 --> 00:50:51.040] Okay.
[00:50:51.040 --> 00:50:51.760] I really enjoyed it.
[00:50:51.840 --> 00:50:53.360] I had a lot of cry in it.
[00:50:53.360 --> 00:50:56.080] It's almost entirely set in your castle.
[00:50:56.080 --> 00:50:56.720] Is it?
[00:50:56.720 --> 00:50:57.520] That's not quite true.
[00:50:57.520 --> 00:50:58.960] It's set on Linda's farm.
[00:50:59.200 --> 00:51:01.640] So it's almost entirely set on Lindisfarne, yeah.
[00:51:01.640 --> 00:51:03.000] So it's all set in the Northeast.
[00:50:59.920 --> 00:51:07.080] The whole cast is doing Geordie accents all the way through, which must drive the...
[00:51:07.080 --> 00:51:10.280] At one point, they all get together in the village hall and sing The Blade and Racers.
[00:51:10.280 --> 00:51:11.080] Oh, nice.
[00:51:11.080 --> 00:51:15.800] I literally sat in the cinema and went when The Blade and Racers came on.
[00:51:15.800 --> 00:51:16.680] I really liked it.
[00:51:16.680 --> 00:51:17.240] It was a really good.
[00:51:17.400 --> 00:51:18.440] I would definitely recommend it.
[00:51:18.680 --> 00:51:19.320] I'll have to watch it.
[00:51:19.800 --> 00:51:20.280] I really enjoyed it.
[00:51:20.280 --> 00:51:22.120] I've over egged it and you both hate it now.
[00:51:22.440 --> 00:51:29.400] But it's genuinely a good film, and I think the best work of Danny Boyle and Alex Garland, certainly on collaboration.
[00:51:29.560 --> 00:51:37.560] I can highly recommend a film that I saw, that Nicola and I saw at the cinema, which was The Ballad of Wallace Island, which is a film written by Tom Basdan and Tim Key.
[00:51:37.560 --> 00:51:38.760] And I bloody love Tim Key.
[00:51:38.760 --> 00:51:39.320] I like Tim Key.
[00:51:39.480 --> 00:51:43.240] He's got a horribly sinister mateiness about him.
[00:51:43.240 --> 00:51:43.560] Right.
[00:51:44.040 --> 00:51:49.800] He seems like he'd be very friendly, but might also snap and kill someone at any given moment.
[00:51:49.800 --> 00:51:50.680] It's incredible.
[00:51:51.080 --> 00:52:00.760] I won't say too much about it other than it's set on a remote island and a musician goes there for a small intimate gig, sort of paid for by someone quite rich.
[00:52:00.760 --> 00:52:02.280] But it's a beautiful film.
[00:52:02.280 --> 00:52:08.040] And it's another film that I cried during because it's amazingly lovely and wholesome and wonderful and very funny.
[00:52:08.040 --> 00:52:10.840] So yeah, everybody see The Ballad of Wallace Island if you can.
[00:52:11.080 --> 00:52:15.560] It might not play in many cinemas for very long because it's a very small film, but it's excellent.
[00:52:15.560 --> 00:52:17.560] It's one of the best ones I've seen in a long time.
[00:52:17.560 --> 00:52:19.960] Alice, any film recommendations while we're here?
[00:52:19.960 --> 00:52:21.560] Or life stories you want to share?
[00:52:21.560 --> 00:52:23.400] I don't think I've seen any films recently.
[00:52:23.400 --> 00:52:24.920] I don't watch films very often.
[00:52:24.920 --> 00:52:25.880] What is your favourite film?
[00:52:25.880 --> 00:52:29.000] What's the film that you would say is your favourite film of the world?
[00:52:29.240 --> 00:52:31.720] I don't know that I have a favourite film now.
[00:52:31.720 --> 00:52:33.800] When I was a kid, it was The Mummy.
[00:52:33.800 --> 00:52:34.760] The Brendan Fraser.
[00:52:35.640 --> 00:52:36.120] You found them all.
[00:52:37.160 --> 00:52:38.680] Well, yeah, it helped.
[00:52:38.680 --> 00:52:39.400] And it did.
[00:52:39.400 --> 00:52:42.120] 20 Days Later, it was a favourite for a while.
[00:52:42.120 --> 00:52:44.200] But I wouldn't say I have a favourite film now.
[00:52:44.200 --> 00:52:47.920] I don't really have anything that I go back and re-watch.
[00:52:44.440 --> 00:52:50.320] It's TV series that I go back and re-watch.
[00:52:51.040 --> 00:52:57.120] I feel television is very much the new movie in terms of the prestige storytelling medium.
[00:52:57.120 --> 00:52:59.440] I think that's shifted to television a lot.
[00:52:59.440 --> 00:53:00.000] That's true.
[00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:03.760] Although, in terms of re-watching, I think I'd be more likely to re-watch films than of TV.
[00:53:03.920 --> 00:53:05.120] So it's probably reasonable.
[00:53:05.440 --> 00:53:09.120] And I'll never get bored of re-watching Miller's Crossing.
[00:53:09.440 --> 00:53:11.360] I've got to do that periodically.
[00:53:11.360 --> 00:53:11.680] Yeah.
[00:53:12.240 --> 00:53:12.880] And brick as well.
[00:53:12.880 --> 00:53:13.840] Ryan Joyce is brick.
[00:53:13.840 --> 00:53:15.520] I'm a big, absolutely love.
[00:53:16.480 --> 00:53:18.960] It's excellent as a film noir.
[00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:25.360] If you can accept the conceit, which is it's like a gritty gumshoe private detective.
[00:53:25.360 --> 00:53:25.760] Sure.
[00:53:25.760 --> 00:53:30.000] Except it's set in sort of college, like high school, college kind of time.
[00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:36.480] And so they're all talking in the slick, fast-paced kind of noir language, but they're all just college kids, basically.
[00:53:36.480 --> 00:53:38.000] It's Jose and God and Levitt.
[00:53:38.000 --> 00:53:40.640] Oh, from Third Rock and the Sun.
[00:53:40.640 --> 00:53:41.440] Yeah, exactly.
[00:53:41.440 --> 00:53:41.760] Okay.
[00:53:41.760 --> 00:53:42.320] Awesome.
[00:53:42.320 --> 00:53:43.440] Exciting.
[00:53:47.600 --> 00:53:54.480] So, QED, at the time of recording, there are but a handful of tickets left for the final ever QED.
[00:53:54.480 --> 00:53:57.520] Yeah, there are like technically four handsful.
[00:53:57.520 --> 00:54:02.000] Yes, there are fewer than four hands full of tickets left at the time of recording.
[00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:07.680] So if you're very, very lucky listeners, you might still be able to get a QED ticket when this show goes out.
[00:54:07.680 --> 00:54:12.480] If not, this is almost certainly the last show where we're going to be able to say there are still QED tickets available.
[00:54:12.720 --> 00:54:14.720] Yes, online tickets will remain available.
[00:54:14.720 --> 00:54:17.200] So you can still do it online, absolutely.
[00:54:17.200 --> 00:54:21.520] And you'll see everything online from the main stage, the podcast room, and the panel room.
[00:54:21.520 --> 00:54:22.000] Yeah.
[00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:28.480] But, yeah, genuine, proper in-person tickets for the final QED almost certainly will not be available by the time you're listening to this.
[00:54:28.480 --> 00:54:31.400] But if they are, there will be a very small number.
[00:54:29.520 --> 00:54:33.400] So, you should definitely get onto that.
[00:54:33.400 --> 00:54:35.800] We've also made some announcements for QED recently.
[00:54:35.800 --> 00:54:36.120] We have.
[00:54:36.120 --> 00:54:38.520] We've announced two speakers and a podcast.
[00:54:38.520 --> 00:54:39.640] We have announced a podcast.
[00:54:39.800 --> 00:54:41.560] So, the podcast we've announced was this podcast.
[00:54:41.560 --> 00:54:42.040] We're going to do it.
[00:54:42.200 --> 00:54:43.240] Which we already pre-announced on the show.
[00:54:43.400 --> 00:54:44.440] We also announced on the show.
[00:54:44.760 --> 00:54:47.480] But it's now official, official, official that it's on the QED website.
[00:54:47.480 --> 00:54:49.320] And it's up on the website and stuff now as well.
[00:54:49.320 --> 00:54:53.080] Yeah, we also have announced Abby Phillips as a speaker.
[00:54:53.080 --> 00:54:56.280] Yes, the liver doc, who knows from social media.
[00:54:56.280 --> 00:55:00.680] He's an incredibly prolific debunker of alternative medicine in India.
[00:55:00.680 --> 00:55:01.960] So we're bringing him over from India.
[00:55:01.960 --> 00:55:11.640] And I think that that Indian perspective is something that's going to be really interesting because we talk about the way that alternative medicine affects the UK, America, even parts of Europe.
[00:55:11.640 --> 00:55:14.360] And we know the landscape that that plays out in.
[00:55:14.360 --> 00:55:19.800] But the way that affects other parts of the world is obviously going to play out in a very differently culturally kind of bound-up way.
[00:55:19.800 --> 00:55:24.920] And the effects of things like Ayurvedic medicine, homeopathic medicine, and also tainted medicine.
[00:55:24.920 --> 00:55:38.520] So like an alternative medicine that has been tainted with a real drug or tainted with lead and other heavy metals and the effect that that has on the local population, especially where they may not have good access to excellent healthcare.
[00:55:38.520 --> 00:55:40.440] That's something that we've never really explored.
[00:55:40.440 --> 00:55:43.000] And that's something that Abby Phillips will be able to tell us a lot about.
[00:55:43.000 --> 00:55:57.080] He's a liver specialist, certainly one of India's leading specialists on the detrimental effects of alternative medicine on the liver in particular, because heavy metal poisoning and things that will particularly affect the liver.
[00:55:57.080 --> 00:56:07.320] And he's someone who's been so outspoken that he's been threatened with all sorts of lawsuits from essentially big homeopathy and big Ayurveda in India to try and silence him.
[00:56:07.320 --> 00:56:12.600] So he's someone who's taking that fight, for want of a better word, directly to where it's needed.
[00:56:12.600 --> 00:56:16.240] And in doing so, facing a huge amount of opposition as well.
[00:56:16.240 --> 00:56:19.600] The other speaker that we have announced is Subhadra Das.
[00:56:19.600 --> 00:56:31.440] So Subhadra is a writer and historian and broadcaster and comedian, which says to me entertaining stage presence, which is always a great time, who looks at the relationship between science and society.
[00:56:31.440 --> 00:56:34.000] So that's the kind of stuff that Subadra is going to be talking about.
[00:56:34.000 --> 00:56:44.320] So she talks about the history, especially the philosophy of science, and with a particular focus on race and scientific racism and eugenics.
[00:56:44.320 --> 00:56:47.120] So that's going to be a fantastic talk from Subadra Das as well.
[00:56:47.120 --> 00:56:49.200] I think it's going to be a fantastic time.
[00:56:49.200 --> 00:56:51.680] We've still got many, many more things to announce for QED.
[00:56:51.680 --> 00:56:52.800] There are many podcasts to come.
[00:56:52.800 --> 00:56:55.680] We've started putting some panels together.
[00:56:55.680 --> 00:56:59.440] And we probably, there's no point in mentioning them because we can't sell you tickets anymore.
[00:56:59.920 --> 00:57:00.960] We'll never mention QED again.
[00:57:01.120 --> 00:57:01.920] Never mentioned it again.
[00:57:01.920 --> 00:57:03.040] It's just never come up.
[00:57:03.040 --> 00:57:05.600] But yes, it is your last chance to grab your QED tickets.
[00:57:05.840 --> 00:57:08.400] You can go and do that at QEDCon.org.
[00:57:09.040 --> 00:57:11.440] Aside from that, then I think that is all we have time for.
[00:57:11.440 --> 00:57:12.000] I think it is.
[00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:14.400] All that remains then is for me to thank Marsh for coming along today.
[00:57:14.400 --> 00:57:14.800] Thank you.
[00:57:14.800 --> 00:57:15.680] Thank you to Alice.
[00:57:15.680 --> 00:57:16.160] Thank you.
[00:57:16.160 --> 00:57:18.720] We have been Skeptics with a K and we will see you next time.
[00:57:18.720 --> 00:57:19.360] Bye now.
[00:57:19.360 --> 00:57:20.240] Bye.
[00:57:25.040 --> 00:57:30.160] Skeptics with a K is produced by Skeptic Media in association with the Merseyside Skeptic Society.
[00:57:30.160 --> 00:57:39.200] For questions or comments, email podcast at skepticswithakay.org and you can find out more about Merseyside Skeptics at merseyside skeptics.org.uk.

Prompt 6: Key Takeaways

Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.

Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...". 

Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive. 

IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}

Prompt 7: Segments

Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.

For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)  
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion

IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
  "segments": [
    {
      "segment_title": "Topic Discussion", 
      "timestamp": "01:15:30",
      "key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
      "segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
    }
  ]
}

Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.

Prompt 8: Media Mentions

Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:

Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)  
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)

DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names

IMPORTANT: 
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
  "media_mentions": [
    {
      "title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
      "category": "Book",
      "author_artist": "N/A",
      "context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
      "context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
      "timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
    }
  ]
}

If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}

Full Transcript

[00:00:06.720 --> 00:00:14.880] It is Thursday the 3rd of July 2025 and you're listening to Skeptics with a K, the podcast for science, reason and critical thinking.
[00:00:14.880 --> 00:00:26.480] Skeptics with a K is produced by Skeptic Media in association with the Merseyside Skeptic Society, a non-profit organization for the promotion of scientific skepticism on Merseyside around the UK and internationally.
[00:00:26.480 --> 00:00:27.840] I'm your host Mike Hall.
[00:00:27.840 --> 00:00:29.120] With me today is Marsh.
[00:00:29.120 --> 00:00:29.760] Hello.
[00:00:29.760 --> 00:00:30.640] And Alice.
[00:00:30.640 --> 00:00:31.600] Hello.
[00:00:32.240 --> 00:00:38.400] So you shouldn't really believe at face value anything you see on the internet.
[00:00:38.400 --> 00:00:44.080] Possibly, with the possible exception of a Fiverr, which its value is very much its face value.
[00:00:44.080 --> 00:00:44.480] That's true.
[00:00:44.480 --> 00:00:45.120] That is very true.
[00:00:45.280 --> 00:00:46.000] Even on the internet.
[00:00:46.240 --> 00:00:50.000] Just on assumption, you see it on the internet, you shouldn't just assume that it's definitely, definitely true.
[00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:51.600] That's not always been the case.
[00:00:51.600 --> 00:00:59.120] You know, even though fakery and deception, they've always flourished in the digital anonymity that the internet has was founded on.
[00:00:59.120 --> 00:00:59.440] Yeah.
[00:00:59.440 --> 00:01:03.920] You always need to have a healthy skepticism of anything text-based in particular.
[00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:04.240] Sure.
[00:01:04.240 --> 00:01:11.920] Now, if the person's saying that they're definitely a really hot girl or a high-ranking military insider, it would have been sensible to take that with a pinch of salt.
[00:01:12.480 --> 00:01:19.760] Well, I assume this is a really hot, high-ranking military insider who's given me all these military secrets and trying to get off with me.
[00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:21.120] This is definitely for real.
[00:01:21.120 --> 00:01:21.440] No.
[00:01:21.440 --> 00:01:22.480] And not everyone did.
[00:01:22.720 --> 00:01:24.720] Not everyone did take that with a pinch of salt.
[00:01:24.800 --> 00:01:25.360] That's true.
[00:01:25.360 --> 00:01:31.360] That's how you ended up with people getting catfished into romance scams or dragged into QAnon conspiracy worlds.
[00:01:31.360 --> 00:01:34.720] Because on the internet, as the old adage goes, nobody knows you're a dog.
[00:01:34.720 --> 00:01:35.040] Yes.
[00:01:35.040 --> 00:01:37.600] You don't know what's going on on the other side of the screen.
[00:01:37.600 --> 00:01:44.560] I remember very clearly when I was first getting on the internet in my late teens, being told by my mom, you don't talk to strangers.
[00:01:44.560 --> 00:01:46.240] I don't, don't talk to strangers.
[00:01:46.480 --> 00:01:49.200] Like when you were a kid and you're not allowed to get into a stranger's car.
[00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:49.440] Yes.
[00:01:49.440 --> 00:01:49.680] Right?
[00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:49.920] Yeah, yeah.
[00:01:50.160 --> 00:01:52.640] Even though they say, well, we definitely know your mom.
[00:01:52.640 --> 00:01:54.960] And then, and then you know, definitely don't get in a stranger's car.
[00:01:54.960 --> 00:02:00.120] Fast forward now to 2025, we use the internet to summon a stranger specifically to get into their car.
[00:01:59.680 --> 00:02:03.640] Yeah, we just call it Uber now.
[00:02:03.960 --> 00:02:08.680] But I mean, for a while, there were some things that offered like a little bit of reassurance of authenticity.
[00:02:08.680 --> 00:02:18.680] Back when it took like a reasonably powerful machine and a graphic design degree to operate Photoshop beyond the obvious levels of manipulation, photos were a pretty reliable form of corroborating evidence.
[00:02:18.680 --> 00:02:19.080] Yes.
[00:02:19.080 --> 00:02:23.560] Or at least they were a sign that your scammer was willing to put in the hard yards to try to fool you.
[00:02:23.880 --> 00:02:31.800] And most of them weren't, which means Pixar it didn't happen was kind of enough to read or dismiss the would-be leg pullers and the digital fantasists.
[00:02:31.800 --> 00:02:34.200] And that isn't to say that every photo at the time could be trusted.
[00:02:34.200 --> 00:02:37.560] Yeah, people could have lied about what the photo showed.
[00:02:37.560 --> 00:02:38.440] Exactly, yeah, yeah.
[00:02:38.440 --> 00:02:46.200] It's not even to say that the photo's real, but what somebody's saying is in that photo is not what no, that's definitely his inauguration.
[00:02:47.480 --> 00:02:49.160] It's nobody else's inauguration.
[00:02:49.160 --> 00:02:50.200] It's definitely his.
[00:02:50.200 --> 00:02:52.600] That is exactly where I was going to go when it's right.
[00:02:52.920 --> 00:02:53.720] Absolutely.
[00:02:53.720 --> 00:02:57.000] Because on the internet, there's more than one way to skin a lolcat.
[00:02:57.000 --> 00:03:09.800] And long before the first one ever met its first zero and made a little baby bite, propagandists have known the value of taking a very real image and then attaching it to a very fake story in order to give it authenticity.
[00:03:09.800 --> 00:03:12.040] You know, this is something David Ike fell on quite a lot.
[00:03:12.040 --> 00:03:16.520] I think we saw him maybe do that when we saw him in Southport, or maybe I've seen him in some of his other kind of lectures.
[00:03:16.520 --> 00:03:22.440] He'd use photos of Syrian war victims and he'd say that these are actually crisis actors.
[00:03:22.440 --> 00:03:23.400] These are all actors.
[00:03:23.400 --> 00:03:26.440] If you look at this dead body here, look at the wounds on this dead body.
[00:03:26.440 --> 00:03:27.240] That looks fake.
[00:03:27.240 --> 00:03:29.480] That looks like TV style makeup.
[00:03:29.480 --> 00:03:34.360] And if you look at this picture of the dead body and this other picture of the dead body, it's moved in between.
[00:03:34.360 --> 00:03:36.440] And this is proof that they're actors.
[00:03:36.440 --> 00:03:38.360] And the thing is, those were real photos.
[00:03:38.360 --> 00:03:46.640] They weren't digitally altered fakes, but they were photos of a TV drama that Ike was saying were real, meant to be real victims of the war.
[00:03:44.920 --> 00:03:48.080] He's not wrong that they were actors.
[00:03:48.240 --> 00:03:53.920] He was just presenting them in a way in a deceptive context where they were assumed to be something other than actors.
[00:03:53.920 --> 00:03:55.600] They were only ever meant to be photos of actors.
[00:03:55.600 --> 00:03:56.880] That was the whole point.
[00:03:56.880 --> 00:04:08.640] But inevitably, like the cost of faking images fell, and the skill needed to manipulate an image dropped away to essentially zero to a matter of jabs on an iPhone screen or a verbal prompt to an AI tool.
[00:04:08.640 --> 00:04:16.720] And our ability to trust the images that we're presented with went down the drain along with the several liters of water that each AI prompt wastes.
[00:04:16.720 --> 00:04:24.240] But at least we had video footage, moving images, associated audio, hearing things directly from the horse's mouth.
[00:04:24.240 --> 00:04:32.800] We could put our trust there for as long as Moore's Law took for the tools that fake photos to be able to convincingly tackle videos.
[00:04:32.800 --> 00:04:41.120] And at the moment, we're like 90% of the way towards AI videos being so convincing that even the scrupulously skeptical can't reliably spot the difference at all.
[00:04:41.440 --> 00:04:47.840] We're a ways away from Will Smith eating spaghetti, which was kind of those early AI video attempts.
[00:04:47.840 --> 00:05:04.240] And especially when the videos are taken out of the context of, can you spot if this video is faked or not, and placed into a feed alongside the various things that Facebook wants you to see, which inevitably is anything but the friends and pages actively want to see.
[00:05:04.240 --> 00:05:06.800] Facebook will show you everything else other than the people you want to see.
[00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:11.360] And it's extra tricky when you have unbelievable things happening all the time.
[00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:26.720] Because it used to be that if a politician said something unrealistic or very surprising, you would at least go and like look for a video of them actually saying that thing so that you can corroborate that that thing has in fact been said because it is an unbelievable thing.
[00:05:26.720 --> 00:05:31.160] Now they're unbelievable things said all the fucking time and the videos can be faked.
[00:05:31.160 --> 00:05:32.440] Yeah, it floods the zone with shit.
[00:05:29.920 --> 00:05:33.400] It's the Steve Bannon thing.
[00:05:33.480 --> 00:05:42.520] So that when Elon Musk did two Nazi salutes at a Trump rally and no, you know, that's the kind of thing that would have been faked previously, but no, it's a real thing that happened.
[00:05:42.520 --> 00:05:46.360] But that said, we don't even need deep fakes and ultra-convincing AI to fool people with videos.
[00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:50.680] We can simply, once again, take a real video and pretend it's something it definitely isn't.
[00:05:50.680 --> 00:05:58.360] For example, if you went to the TikTok page for Flat Earth Antarctica, you'll see a popular video that's like 8,000 likes, 3,000 comments.
[00:05:58.360 --> 00:06:10.440] And it's pointing out that pilots know the Earth is flat because, as the speaker says in the video, when you talk to pilots, they'll tell you there's never a point in the journey where they have to start pointing the nose of their plane downwards to compensate for the curve.
[00:06:10.440 --> 00:06:11.880] And that's because the Earth isn't curved.
[00:06:11.880 --> 00:06:12.680] It's actually flat.
[00:06:12.680 --> 00:06:12.920] Yeah.
[00:06:13.080 --> 00:06:13.880] Seen this video.
[00:06:14.280 --> 00:06:14.920] I have seen this video.
[00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:16.280] You have seen this video, yeah.
[00:06:16.280 --> 00:06:16.680] Okay.
[00:06:16.680 --> 00:06:21.320] The comments are filled with people ridiculing the young, quite handsome guy in the video.
[00:06:21.320 --> 00:06:25.320] And they're saying things like, Do these people even know how flight works?
[00:06:25.320 --> 00:06:28.280] And has anyone told him that gravity exists?
[00:06:28.280 --> 00:06:31.400] And this is why he's not a rocket scientist.
[00:06:31.400 --> 00:06:31.720] Yeah.
[00:06:31.720 --> 00:06:33.720] And to be honest, I don't think that's why he's not a rocket scientist.
[00:06:33.880 --> 00:06:34.520] No, it's not.
[00:06:34.520 --> 00:06:36.760] That's not the reason the guy in the video isn't a rocket scientist.
[00:06:36.760 --> 00:06:39.720] Because the reason is he was actually really into science as a kid.
[00:06:39.720 --> 00:06:48.760] He just decided instead to do a degree in English, literature, and language and end up becoming a podcaster who spent years researching and then giving talks about the flat earth movement and why it's wrong.
[00:06:48.760 --> 00:06:49.160] Yeah.
[00:06:49.160 --> 00:06:54.840] Including a lecture that I gave in Brazil, which this deceptively edited 19-second clip comes from.
[00:06:54.840 --> 00:07:01.960] You know, there's a reason that the video starts literally mid-sentence and ends with me saying, they say, what about?
[00:07:01.960 --> 00:07:03.320] and stopping at that bit.
[00:07:03.720 --> 00:07:09.400] Literally, it ends it ends mid-sentence because it cuts off because I was listing all of the flat earth arguments and why they're wrong.
[00:07:09.400 --> 00:07:16.480] It's funny watching that video because obviously, I know you, and I know just to be super clear for listeners, the video is you.
[00:07:16.640 --> 00:07:25.200] The video is me in Brazil and you are debunking the flat earth, but they've clipped you explaining it before you debunk it.
[00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:27.360] It's clipped me saying flat earth.
[00:07:27.360 --> 00:07:38.960] It even the bit they've cut off at the start is where I say flat earthers will say things like, Yeah, and then they'll say they've cut off that bit and it's got me doing that, and then they've cut before I say, and it's wrong for these reasons.
[00:07:38.960 --> 00:07:39.600] Yeah, yeah.
[00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:57.760] And when I'm watching it, and it was only a few days ago that I saw this video and I watched it, and I thought, this is really interesting because I know you and I know what your position is on that, so I can see the little hints where you're saying they say this, but it's quite subtle, and it looks very much like it's just you being pro-flatter.
[00:07:57.760 --> 00:08:01.520] Yeah, especially when you trim it past the points where I actually give those kind of clues.
[00:08:01.520 --> 00:08:03.680] And it's annoying, it's not the only time they've done it.
[00:08:03.680 --> 00:08:12.720] They've got another clip up on their same TikTok page with getting thousands of views, where I say that people in Australia are upside down and might fall off.
[00:08:12.960 --> 00:08:14.320] You've just given it to them again.
[00:08:16.400 --> 00:08:19.520] They've got another one where I talk about shooting a cannonball on a spinning earth.
[00:08:19.520 --> 00:08:21.280] And look, it is slightly amusing.
[00:08:21.280 --> 00:08:23.200] It's also incredibly annoying.
[00:08:23.200 --> 00:08:24.480] Yeah, it's incredibly annoying.
[00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:26.080] And completely deliberate, right?
[00:08:26.080 --> 00:08:31.680] Because to clip that video in that way has to be done deceptively, deliberately, with that malintent.
[00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:33.360] Yeah, there's no way you do it by accident.
[00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:38.320] I'm introduced on the video as someone who's talking about why the flat earth movement is wrong.
[00:08:38.320 --> 00:08:45.360] But even if you just skipped to a random part of the video, you've got to cut it deliberately out of the context of that one sentence.
[00:08:45.360 --> 00:08:54.720] Like it's even if you only watch that 60 seconds to take that 19-second clip or whatever second clip you said it was, you've got to have heard the the caveats in there.
[00:08:54.720 --> 00:09:01.800] Yeah, it's a 19-second clip because a 23-second clip would have at either end the clues that I'm that I don't believe those bits in the middle.
[00:09:01.800 --> 00:09:02.440] It's very annoying.
[00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:07.080] It's annoying that they're using a six-year-old flat earth debunking video to promote flat earth beliefs.
[00:09:07.400 --> 00:09:15.640] It's even more annoying that the people who don't believe in the flat earth are in the comments being arrogant insulting dick bags telling me what an idiot I am for believing these things.
[00:09:15.640 --> 00:09:18.440] Yeah, it's whole other reasons why you're an idiot for believing things.
[00:09:19.640 --> 00:09:20.840] They don't need to invent them.
[00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:21.560] They don't need to invent them.
[00:09:22.040 --> 00:09:26.120] Quite frankly, like we should be getting more ridiculous for not liking Breaking Bad, for example.
[00:09:26.360 --> 00:09:27.000] I hate it so much.
[00:09:27.000 --> 00:09:27.960] I hate it so much.
[00:09:27.960 --> 00:09:38.200] So yeah, when you see a video, even on TikTok, even when it is saying something ridiculous, maybe just pause to see whether actually is this really as it's been presenting at face value.
[00:09:38.200 --> 00:09:42.840] So with that being said, I'm actually going to, that was just a tangent for me to air the fact that I'm pissed off about that.
[00:09:42.840 --> 00:09:45.000] Flat Earth Antarctica can get fucked.
[00:09:45.160 --> 00:09:45.960] It's our show.
[00:09:45.960 --> 00:09:56.200] Anybody on TikTok, anybody, any listeners who do use TikTok, please feel free to go to Flat Earth Antarctica, see the videos there and report them for misinformation, which I've been doing because this is misinformation.
[00:09:56.200 --> 00:09:59.000] It's deceptively edited misinformation here.
[00:09:59.000 --> 00:10:03.480] But all this being said, I'm going to be slightly tentative in talking about an Instagram video that I was sent last week.
[00:10:03.480 --> 00:10:08.520] I'm not on Instagram myself, but I was sent it by a good friend, a listener to show.
[00:10:08.520 --> 00:10:12.200] And I don't believe this Instagram video is deceptively edited.
[00:10:12.200 --> 00:10:18.200] It was posted to, but I'm putting caveats, but I think I've done enough due diligence to see that I think it's legit.
[00:10:18.200 --> 00:10:22.920] It was posted by the Instagram account VinegarIT or Vinegar It.
[00:10:22.920 --> 00:10:25.160] I can't quite tell whether it's vinegar it or vinegar it.
[00:10:25.160 --> 00:10:30.120] The IT is in capitals, but I don't think it's information technology about vinegar.
[00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:30.280] Okay.
[00:10:30.280 --> 00:10:30.920] Is it like vinegar it?
[00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:32.200] It could be vinegar Italy.
[00:10:32.200 --> 00:10:35.480] It could be vinegar Italy, but there's no sign that they're Italian.
[00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:36.040] Okay.
[00:10:36.040 --> 00:10:37.720] They're certainly not speaking in Italian.
[00:10:37.720 --> 00:10:38.920] None of them mentioned, so I don't know.
[00:10:38.920 --> 00:10:39.880] But it's vinegar it.
[00:10:39.880 --> 00:10:44.760] Will they just say balsamic instead of balsamic Italian vinegar?
[00:10:44.800 --> 00:10:45.040] I've never seen it.
[00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:49.040] We'll come to hell, okay.
[00:10:49.200 --> 00:10:57.200] So in this video, we see a variety of clips showing beautiful blue skies and pretty fluffy little white clouds.
[00:10:57.200 --> 00:10:59.040] And then it'll show another little clip of that.
[00:10:59.040 --> 00:11:01.920] And it's things that people have taken themselves and sort of I've sent in.
[00:11:01.920 --> 00:11:02.880] I can't tell if it's the same person.
[00:11:02.880 --> 00:11:04.800] It looks like it's from different locations.
[00:11:04.800 --> 00:11:08.480] And it looks like the, you know, the way the sky used to look when you were a child.
[00:11:08.480 --> 00:11:10.880] The way you would draw the sky as a child.
[00:11:10.880 --> 00:11:17.200] But each clip of this beautiful vista starts first with the camera panning from a bucket on the ground.
[00:11:17.200 --> 00:11:21.120] So it starts looking at the bucket in the ground and then it pans up to the beautiful sky.
[00:11:21.120 --> 00:11:21.680] Okay.
[00:11:21.680 --> 00:11:22.320] Okay.
[00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:25.840] Sometimes there's steam rising from the bucket.
[00:11:25.840 --> 00:11:27.200] Sometimes it's still.
[00:11:27.200 --> 00:11:34.160] Sometimes there's a diffuser instead of a bucket and it's spraying mist just like a few inches or feet.
[00:11:34.160 --> 00:11:34.560] Okay.
[00:11:34.880 --> 00:11:41.520] According to the video, each of those containers is actually responsible for the beautiful blue sky above them.
[00:11:41.520 --> 00:11:48.640] Because those containers contain vinegar that's been simmered to a warm temperature and then diffused out.
[00:11:48.640 --> 00:11:52.240] And that vinegar is fighting off the chemtrails in the sky.
[00:11:52.480 --> 00:11:52.880] Okay.
[00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:57.120] These are cloud-busting, chemtrail-busting vinegar diffusers.
[00:11:57.280 --> 00:11:57.600] That's good.
[00:11:57.600 --> 00:11:59.280] That's why you never see chemtrail over a chippy.
[00:11:59.520 --> 00:12:00.000] You never do.
[00:12:00.800 --> 00:12:02.000] It's just never there.
[00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:14.960] Vinegar IT posted this reel with the hashtags hashtag white vinegar, because not that balsamic, hashtag geoengineered weather, hashtag I like those, the juxtaposition of those two hashtags itself.
[00:12:14.960 --> 00:12:32.520] White vinegar, hashtag geoengineered weather, hashtag geoengineering, hashtag chemtrails, hashtrail, hashtag chemtrail awareness, hashtag chemtrail spraying, hashtag chemtrail clouds, hashtag stop spraying our skies, hashtag we do not consent, hashtag geoengineering, again, hashtag weather manipulation.
[00:12:32.520 --> 00:12:36.200] What if I don't consent to them spraying vinegar into the sky?
[00:12:36.840 --> 00:12:46.440] Then you need to start your own series of reels where you're doing it something that would be anti-vinegar and then turning the camera to their vinegar diffuser not working.
[00:12:46.920 --> 00:12:48.600] Oh, it's not working, and that's because of what I did.
[00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:49.640] It's baking powder.
[00:12:49.640 --> 00:12:53.400] They ruined everybody's baking powder by spraying vinegar into the sky.
[00:12:53.400 --> 00:12:55.800] Ironically, what they're doing there is geoengineering.
[00:12:55.800 --> 00:12:57.640] If what they did worked, it is.
[00:12:57.640 --> 00:12:58.520] Then he's geoengineering.
[00:12:59.000 --> 00:13:00.200] It's literally what they're doing.
[00:13:00.200 --> 00:13:03.560] And they say in a comment, you can also use white wine vinegar.
[00:13:03.560 --> 00:13:08.760] It works just the same, but white vinegar is the best as it is also designed for cleaning.
[00:13:08.760 --> 00:13:09.560] And someone...
[00:13:09.880 --> 00:13:11.960] Including skies, apparently.
[00:13:12.360 --> 00:13:13.240] Cleaning the skies?
[00:13:13.240 --> 00:13:19.000] Yeah, but I love to say you can use white wine vinegar because it works just the same, but white vinegar's best.
[00:13:19.320 --> 00:13:20.840] Yep, this is what they're saying then.
[00:13:20.840 --> 00:13:21.800] But this one's better.
[00:13:21.800 --> 00:13:29.560] To which somebody responded, DEFMAR 007 responded to a story, T-U-R-E, rather, they went to go to True Story.
[00:13:29.560 --> 00:13:30.600] They swung and missed.
[00:13:30.840 --> 00:13:32.840] They said, this is what I do around my property.
[00:13:32.840 --> 00:13:36.760] I set out pots of boiling vinegar and the sky is clear above.
[00:13:36.760 --> 00:13:40.520] Isn't hot vinegar like quite dangerous for your mucous membranes and stuff?
[00:13:40.520 --> 00:13:41.480] Yeah, it's not good.
[00:13:41.640 --> 00:13:44.440] I often cough when putting vinegar on my chips.
[00:13:44.680 --> 00:13:45.240] You'll get a.
[00:13:47.080 --> 00:13:50.040] I've not looked into whether it's actively harmful.
[00:13:50.040 --> 00:13:51.080] It's not fun.
[00:13:51.080 --> 00:13:51.960] It's not nice.
[00:13:51.960 --> 00:13:53.320] Well, I mean, depends what you're into.
[00:13:53.560 --> 00:13:55.400] People might have a massive vinegar fetish.
[00:13:55.480 --> 00:13:56.920] They might just show vinegar.
[00:13:56.920 --> 00:13:57.480] It's up to them.
[00:13:57.480 --> 00:13:59.720] Well, he has said boiling vinegar and we will come back.
[00:14:00.280 --> 00:14:10.280] Defmar 007 has broken one of the cardinal rules of vinegar chemtrail busting because he's using, but they are using boiling vinegar, which you're not meant to do.
[00:14:10.280 --> 00:14:15.000] Yeah, it creates acetic acid vapors which can irritate their respiratory system, eyes, and skin.
[00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:18.720] Okay, well, put a pin in that for a little bit because we will come back, okay?
[00:14:19.040 --> 00:14:26.720] Superimposed over that video is the text, video from Vinegar Blue Sky Telegram Group, which I immediately joined.
[00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:27.520] Of course, you did.
[00:14:27.520 --> 00:14:35.280] This was Matthew, actually, our friend Matthew, who comes to skeptics, a friend of ours, who sent this to me because obviously Matthew finds weird stuff on the internet and then sends it to me.
[00:14:35.280 --> 00:14:37.120] And then I end up in Telegram holes.
[00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:48.400] But this is why you should join Instagram, because if you're on Instagram, then Matthew sends it directly to Instagram DMs and you get it more rapidly because it's just an easier, like, quick share.
[00:14:48.400 --> 00:14:50.640] I want Matthew to filter this bullshit out before I get to it.
[00:14:50.640 --> 00:14:52.160] I want only the very best.
[00:14:52.160 --> 00:14:56.320] At the time of recording, this Telegram channel has 3,693 subscribers.
[00:14:56.320 --> 00:15:04.720] It is your one-stop shop for all of the advice and pithy memes you might need to spread the idea of simmering white vinegar to dispel chemtrails.
[00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:14.080] There's videos about how to make your own white vinegar in your kitchen using like sugar and orange peel in case the store-bought stuff isn't pure and organic enough for you.
[00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:18.160] There's a surprising number of Pepe the Frog memes, which I'm showing you both here.
[00:15:18.160 --> 00:15:18.480] Yes.
[00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:24.160] We have Pepe holding a young frog saying, the young frog saying, do we have to do the vinegar today?
[00:15:24.160 --> 00:15:28.960] And the old Pepe is saying, you want sunshine with your ice cream, don't you?
[00:15:28.960 --> 00:15:34.080] We also have Pepe the Frog surveying the horizon, the fruit of your overnight vinegar labor.
[00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:38.320] It's a beautiful horizon as Pepe's shielding his eyes from the sunrise.
[00:15:38.320 --> 00:15:46.080] And also a little Pepe lying sadly in bed with, well, at least I did one good vinegar deed today.
[00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:46.720] Fucking hell.
[00:15:46.880 --> 00:15:51.200] So that is the memes that we get shared in this space, among other memes.
[00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:53.760] But there's a lot of Pepe the Frog memes, which is a bit weird.
[00:15:53.760 --> 00:15:58.800] That feels like the people in the Telegram are not believers in this.
[00:15:58.800 --> 00:16:00.920] I think the people in the Telegram are believers in it.
[00:16:01.240 --> 00:16:11.240] I think they are having fun inside of their community, but I think they're wearing this as shouldering the burden of having to be the one to dispel the chemtrails.
[00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:14.520] Having spent a bit of time scrolling, I don't think this is done ironically.
[00:16:14.520 --> 00:16:17.560] I've been trying to look for signs of irony, but I think there's something else.
[00:16:17.880 --> 00:16:21.400] But isn't Pepe the Frog one of the signs of irony?
[00:16:21.800 --> 00:16:24.520] Sort of, but yes and no.
[00:16:24.520 --> 00:16:26.040] I think even the places where...
[00:16:26.040 --> 00:16:32.200] So Pepe the Frog is very popular in alt-right spaces and overtly right-wing spaces.
[00:16:32.200 --> 00:16:36.920] And they're not doing that to satirize the space that they're in when they're using the buttons.
[00:16:36.920 --> 00:16:41.800] But it was also very common in 4chan, which was deliberately creating misinformation.
[00:16:42.440 --> 00:16:43.960] Yes, it was.
[00:16:43.960 --> 00:16:50.280] But Pepe has got a life beyond that where they now use it in those alt-right spaces.
[00:16:50.280 --> 00:16:55.800] It has an air of plausible deniability of like, oh no, I don't really mean gas the Jews.
[00:16:55.800 --> 00:16:58.040] I'm just saying it for the lulls, for the kecks.
[00:16:58.040 --> 00:16:59.560] But actually, you are saying that.
[00:16:59.560 --> 00:17:02.200] You're just using this as a way to get out.
[00:17:02.200 --> 00:17:04.760] And so I think it's sort of taken on that kind of role.
[00:17:04.760 --> 00:17:10.200] I think that the presence of Pepe in these spaces isn't indicative of them being in on a joke.
[00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:14.440] I think it's maybe indicative of where they're being influenced elsewhere as well.
[00:17:14.440 --> 00:17:21.000] And that they're swimming in those meme pools and bringing some of those cultural touchstone references into this space, I think.
[00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:22.680] But again, I can't be certain.
[00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:24.760] Presumably, there's frog spawn in the meme pools.
[00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:27.400] There is frog spawn filling the meme pools.
[00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:37.880] If you're wondering how this is all meant to work, well, there's a link in this Telegram channel to a YouTube video in which two women use a fog machine to spit cimmered vinegar fog into their garden.
[00:17:37.880 --> 00:17:48.080] And the thing is, the sky they're sat under isn't a classic chemtrail sky, by which we which means, you know, it's not the sky that you'd see crisscrossed with the trails from planes.
[00:17:44.840 --> 00:17:49.440] It's just a cloudy day.
[00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:54.240] They've just got a cloudy day, but they're saying, Oh, look at those skies.
[00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:56.080] Oh, God, ah, awful.
[00:17:56.080 --> 00:17:58.640] Let's get the let's get the vinegar fog on the goal.
[00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:05.440] And after just half an hour of sitting in their garden spitting out vinegar vapor, they find blue patches appearing in the sky.
[00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:10.640] But do they think vinegar is homeopathic?
[00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:12.080] Pin in that as well.
[00:18:12.080 --> 00:18:13.120] Stop giving me pins.
[00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:15.280] I'm turning you into a pincush.
[00:18:15.280 --> 00:18:17.280] We will come back to that, in fact.
[00:18:17.280 --> 00:18:19.520] Because the sky's fucking like the sky's massive.
[00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:20.640] The sky is big.
[00:18:21.600 --> 00:18:22.960] The clouds are really far away.
[00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:24.960] The vinegar is not getting up to the clouds.
[00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:25.520] No.
[00:18:25.520 --> 00:18:26.560] Or the chemtrails.
[00:18:26.560 --> 00:18:32.880] And the clouds are moving all the time as well, which arguably is the reason that after half an hour they start to see blue skies.
[00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:36.080] It's just you waited long enough and the skies changed.
[00:18:36.080 --> 00:18:38.320] But again, we will come back to explain that.
[00:18:38.320 --> 00:18:45.360] Elsewhere on this Telegram channel, they promoted a YouTube video called Clearing Geoengineered Clouds Fact Sheet.
[00:18:45.360 --> 00:18:46.480] How to do it.
[00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:47.440] It wasn't a fact sheet.
[00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:48.560] It's a YouTube video.
[00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:50.080] It's not a fact sheet.
[00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:52.080] It is evidentially not a fact sheet.
[00:18:52.080 --> 00:18:54.800] It's a series of text slides as a YouTube video.
[00:18:54.800 --> 00:18:58.320] In it, they say white vinegar is acetate acid.
[00:18:58.320 --> 00:18:59.360] Acetic.
[00:18:59.360 --> 00:19:01.040] They say acetate acid.
[00:19:01.040 --> 00:19:01.920] Okay, good.
[00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:05.280] Acetate is like the stuff that you put on your overhead projector.
[00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:09.520] I couldn't tell if you were laughing because it was ridiculous of me to suggest that on the fly you could explain the difference.
[00:19:09.520 --> 00:19:13.280] But you're laughing because it is ridiculous to get the two confused.
[00:19:13.280 --> 00:19:14.320] I am chemically ignorant.
[00:19:14.560 --> 00:19:15.840] Acetate is plastic.
[00:19:15.840 --> 00:19:16.480] It's a plastic acetylcholine.
[00:19:16.560 --> 00:19:18.000] Yeah, I knew that it'd like those acetate sheets.
[00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:19.760] But I don't know what an acetate acid is.
[00:19:20.080 --> 00:19:20.720] Not a thing.
[00:19:20.800 --> 00:19:21.760] It's acetic acid.
[00:19:21.760 --> 00:19:24.560] Acetic acid is fucking vinegar.
[00:19:25.040 --> 00:19:26.400] Chemically, vinegar is acetic acid.
[00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:27.360] Acetic acid, yeah.
[00:19:27.360 --> 00:19:29.040] Yeah, I'm just looking it up.
[00:19:29.040 --> 00:19:32.520] Acetate is the conjugate base of acetic acid.
[00:19:32.520 --> 00:19:32.920] Okay.
[00:19:32.920 --> 00:19:33.960] Yeah, that's fair enough.
[00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:34.200] Yeah.
[00:19:29.760 --> 00:19:36.360] So they say white vinegar is acetate acid.
[00:19:36.520 --> 00:19:42.200] It eats alkaline metals, which is what they spray to create the geo-engineered clouds.
[00:19:42.200 --> 00:19:42.600] Yeah.
[00:19:42.600 --> 00:19:44.440] They just quote-unquote eat.
[00:19:44.440 --> 00:19:45.960] They're eating those metals.
[00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:50.200] It says supermarket distilled white vinegar is typically 5% vinegar, 95% water.
[00:19:50.200 --> 00:19:52.120] But hang on, go on.
[00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:54.040] I was never good at chemistry.
[00:19:54.120 --> 00:19:54.520] Yeah.
[00:19:54.520 --> 00:19:56.040] I'm not a chemist.
[00:19:56.040 --> 00:20:00.840] But acetate is the conjugate base of acetic acid.
[00:20:00.840 --> 00:20:01.320] Yes.
[00:20:01.320 --> 00:20:09.080] Which means that is what you make when you're using acetic acid to make to counteract your alkaline.
[00:20:09.080 --> 00:20:11.320] It will convert into acetate.
[00:20:11.560 --> 00:20:12.040] It will become.
[00:20:12.280 --> 00:20:15.800] So you can't use the acetate to neutralize the alkaline.
[00:20:15.800 --> 00:20:17.800] You have to use the acetic acid.
[00:20:17.800 --> 00:20:23.960] I also would imagine that an acid wouldn't eat an alkaline metal to a point where there was nothing left of it.
[00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:24.440] No.
[00:20:24.440 --> 00:20:25.480] So, you know.
[00:20:26.760 --> 00:20:29.960] So the way this is, this is going back to GCSE chemistry.
[00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:31.080] I did A-level chemistry, actually.
[00:20:31.160 --> 00:20:31.960] Come back to A-level chemistry.
[00:20:32.120 --> 00:20:36.200] Okay, I did GCSE chemistry and I can't remember it, but I can't remember this from it, but that was.
[00:20:36.520 --> 00:20:44.040] I did some chemistry modules in my undergraduate degree because I have the highest training chemistry, but I was fucking shy to.
[00:20:44.440 --> 00:20:46.040] I trust Michael View.
[00:20:46.760 --> 00:20:48.040] I'm terrible at chemistry.
[00:20:48.040 --> 00:20:54.280] The way this would work then is if there's alkaline metals in the sky and that's reacting with the acetic acid, right?
[00:20:54.280 --> 00:20:55.880] Producing salt and water.
[00:20:55.880 --> 00:20:56.280] Yep.
[00:20:56.280 --> 00:20:57.480] Fundamentally is what it would do.
[00:20:57.480 --> 00:21:01.080] So the water will be the water, but the salt would be an acetate salt.
[00:21:01.080 --> 00:21:07.720] So it would be a salt with an acetate ion in, and the other half of the salt would depend on what metal it was that they were spraying into the sky.
[00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:12.680] So it might be sodium acetate, for example, if it's a sodium metal that we've been spraying in the sky.
[00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:13.720] So that's the way that's going to work.
[00:21:13.880 --> 00:21:15.920] Acetate acid is an oxymoron.
[00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:16.800] Yes, I think it is.
[00:21:16.800 --> 00:21:19.280] Yeah, I think they're idiots.
[00:21:14.920 --> 00:21:21.200] For many reasons, definitely wrong.
[00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:24.560] But I, and it may be wrong, and listeners will write it if we fuck this up.
[00:21:24.560 --> 00:21:29.920] But I don't think acetate acid is an accepted alternative name for acetic acid.
[00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:32.480] I think they've just probably, that's an autocorrect.
[00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:37.440] They've tried to type acetic and their phone has gone, no, you mean acetate acetate?
[00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:41.920] As far as safe, it's probably an autocorrect because it could just be that they got it wrong.
[00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:47.280] Also, their plan is to then, at best, rain down salt water onto farmland.
[00:21:47.280 --> 00:21:47.440] Yes.
[00:21:47.600 --> 00:21:49.120] Which is not a great idea.
[00:21:49.120 --> 00:21:52.880] Like, that's salting the earth, essentially, is what they're.
[00:21:52.880 --> 00:21:55.440] But also, it depends on what the salt is as well, right?
[00:21:55.440 --> 00:21:58.400] So, that, you know, it could be all sorts of different salts.
[00:21:58.400 --> 00:21:58.960] Yeah.
[00:21:59.280 --> 00:22:03.680] They say supermarket distilled white vinegar is typically 5% vinegar, 95% water.
[00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:11.440] So you need to simmer, brackets, never boil it, close brackets, it, to half the amount to concentrate the solution.
[00:22:11.440 --> 00:22:15.360] Yes, and that, but that's because boiling vinegar is harmful.
[00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:20.720] Yeah, despite the fact that somebody was boiling vinegar in the comments to say this works.
[00:22:20.720 --> 00:22:25.040] They say simmering will remove most of the water content, giving you a much stronger vinegar solution.
[00:22:25.040 --> 00:22:31.760] To fight the geo-engineering, you put dark balls because dark balls attract the sun's heat.
[00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:38.480] You put dark balls of vinegar outside, or you re-bottle it after simmering and put it outside in the path of the sun.
[00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:39.600] So that's how that works.
[00:22:39.600 --> 00:22:41.600] You put it in the path of the sun so it warms it back up.
[00:22:41.600 --> 00:22:44.000] Dark balls attract the sun's heat.
[00:22:44.640 --> 00:22:45.920] Are we happy with that?
[00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:49.200] They'll warm up naturally.
[00:22:50.080 --> 00:22:51.520] They will retain heat.
[00:22:51.520 --> 00:22:53.080] They don't attract the heat in the sense of the same.
[00:22:53.160 --> 00:22:55.120] They attract the heat, but they don't repel the heat.
[00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:58.640] Yes, they will retain heat is a better way of phrasing it.
[00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:03.720] Attracting the heat makes it seems like the sun is seeking out the dark ball rather than the path next to it, which is left.
[00:22:59.760 --> 00:23:08.200] Nearby heat is being diverted to the wall, which is not what's happening.
[00:23:08.200 --> 00:23:11.880] Yeah, they go on to say, this is a battle for our skies.
[00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:15.640] So time scales for clearing a white-out sky can vary.
[00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:18.440] Sometimes it can take me a couple of days.
[00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:23.560] Other times, other times it's within a few hours.
[00:23:23.560 --> 00:23:25.960] AKA, the weather system has moved on.
[00:23:25.960 --> 00:23:31.240] Yeah, they can change an entirely cloudy sky in a couple of days.
[00:23:31.240 --> 00:23:37.160] It says, I can clear skies for up to 10 miles around my home of geo-clouds using a humidifier.
[00:23:37.160 --> 00:23:39.960] So they pop their little humidifier down in the garden.
[00:23:39.960 --> 00:23:43.560] It sprays out a bit of simmered vinegar mist.
[00:23:43.560 --> 00:23:47.320] And within a couple of days, the clouds have moved.
[00:23:47.960 --> 00:23:53.640] Interestingly, this video is watermarked with the name of the channel that created it, which is Divine Truth.
[00:23:53.640 --> 00:23:54.120] Lovely.
[00:23:54.360 --> 00:23:58.280] I can't see what else Divine Truth believes in because their channel is banned.
[00:23:58.280 --> 00:23:58.920] It doesn't exist.
[00:23:59.720 --> 00:24:07.400] But it's fascinating to me that this slightly odd belief that you can bust clouds by simmering and releasing vinegar has some like weird red flag details around it.
[00:24:07.400 --> 00:24:15.640] Divine Truth feels like the kind of channel names that were putting out flat earth content in 2018 when I was talking about it around about the time that video came from.
[00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:18.120] That's now being used to promote the flat earth belief.
[00:24:18.120 --> 00:24:23.080] Pepe memes and Telegram usually equal something pretty right-wing.
[00:24:23.080 --> 00:24:27.240] Combine that with Divine Truth and would be in some pretty dodgy space online.
[00:24:27.240 --> 00:24:29.560] None of it feels like it's overtly there.
[00:24:29.560 --> 00:24:36.520] I haven't seen any evidence that it is overtly in these space, but it does feel close enough that it's hard not to remark on it that it's kind of around.
[00:24:36.840 --> 00:24:45.000] Now, like, I probably don't need to do a big deep dive here because chemtrails are so cartoonishly pseudoscientific that most people know that they're not a thing and even why they're not a thing.
[00:24:45.520 --> 00:24:55.360] In reality, the stuff that you're seeing in the wakes of planes are contrails or vapor trails, which are produced by changes in air pressure when planes are cruising at high altitude.
[00:24:55.360 --> 00:24:59.920] They're not evil chemicals, they're mostly ice crystals and water droplets.
[00:24:59.920 --> 00:25:02.880] The stuff that's in the air already that's just being displaced.
[00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:04.640] Yeah, they're clouds, basically.
[00:25:04.640 --> 00:25:06.560] They're clouds in a long stripe.
[00:25:06.560 --> 00:25:11.760] They're clouds and clouds, incidentally, clouds are weird if you think about them too long.
[00:25:11.760 --> 00:25:13.440] Yeah, they're fucking weird.
[00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:15.200] They're basically not there.
[00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:17.440] The clouds that you see are basically not there.
[00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:20.320] They're like bags of fog, but without the bag.
[00:25:20.320 --> 00:25:23.360] Just like little patches of little collections of fog coming together.
[00:25:23.360 --> 00:25:25.680] And air and water do, that's what they are.
[00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:29.600] Well, no, but I just like that you introduced a con take fog.
[00:25:29.600 --> 00:25:30.240] Yeah.
[00:25:30.560 --> 00:25:32.080] Which isn't in a bag.
[00:25:32.080 --> 00:25:32.880] It's not in a bag.
[00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:36.160] You've introduced putting it into a bag and then removing the bag.
[00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:37.440] They're like fog.
[00:25:37.520 --> 00:25:42.240] No, but they're not because if you say think of fog, you think of it everywhere.
[00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:45.280] Whereas you think of a bag of fog, you think it localized in a small space.
[00:25:45.280 --> 00:25:46.240] And then take away the bag.
[00:25:46.640 --> 00:25:47.680] You're seeing it wrapped in a little.
[00:25:47.760 --> 00:25:49.520] You're seeing it held together in a little space.
[00:25:49.520 --> 00:25:54.320] Find me a better way to describe a cloud than like a bag of fog without the bag.
[00:25:55.520 --> 00:25:56.160] Just fog.
[00:25:56.160 --> 00:25:57.680] No, but I think that's an excellent way of describing.
[00:25:57.760 --> 00:26:01.920] I think it's a great way of, you know, a creative way of describing a cloud.
[00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:04.000] It's a bag of fog without the bag.
[00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:09.280] Air and water do weird things, especially around the whole like evaporation and condensation point.
[00:26:09.280 --> 00:26:23.920] And then if you throw a big metal tube through them at 700 miles an hour, and a tube that has a surface temperature of minus 50 degrees Celsius, no less, we shouldn't be surprised that water droplets are going to form and cluster and do slightly odd-looking things in its wake.
[00:26:23.920 --> 00:26:29.440] Like, speaking of wakes, I always hoped there was a chemtrail equivalent for what follows behind boards.
[00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:31.560] I don't really know why there isn't.
[00:26:31.880 --> 00:26:38.920] Nobody seems to find the patterns that are made on water behind boats to be weird, but they do when it's planes.
[00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:42.920] It'd be much easier to seed things behind your boat as well.
[00:26:42.920 --> 00:26:43.320] Yeah.
[00:26:43.640 --> 00:26:46.760] You could seed the ocean behind your boat, but they never do.
[00:26:46.760 --> 00:26:54.760] But when you look across, when a boat, fast boat's gone past, and then you look a second, look at those weird V shape, but no one seems to bothered by that.
[00:26:54.760 --> 00:26:56.440] It's like, oh, yeah, that was just a boat.
[00:26:56.440 --> 00:26:57.720] Look up in the sky.
[00:26:57.720 --> 00:26:58.520] What is that?
[00:26:58.520 --> 00:27:00.040] Like, it seems, it's a mad to me.
[00:27:00.040 --> 00:27:02.040] That there's a distinction between the two.
[00:27:02.040 --> 00:27:13.000] Now, look, given the weird fluid dynamics that are going, the weird fluid physics rather that are going on with contrail clouds, it's perhaps no surprise that people get scared or paranoid when they see plane trails in the sky.
[00:27:13.000 --> 00:27:17.800] I remember when I first came across the chemtrail conspiracy theory, it's nearly two decades ago.
[00:27:17.800 --> 00:27:25.720] And at the time, when I heard it, it was always put forward by people older than me who were arguing, well, you never used to see these in the sky when we were kids.
[00:27:25.720 --> 00:27:31.400] I remember growing up, we didn't see these trails in the sky when we were kids, and now we see them everywhere and we don't see them anymore.
[00:27:31.400 --> 00:27:34.200] But A, you did, just didn't notice them.
[00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:36.200] Yes, I found that an odd argument.
[00:27:36.200 --> 00:27:36.520] Yeah.
[00:27:36.520 --> 00:27:37.720] What was B, by the way?
[00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:39.880] There were probably fewer planes then.
[00:27:39.880 --> 00:27:40.680] You're going to have it.
[00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:43.000] Congratulations, have a third pin, Alex.
[00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:46.440] I think we have taken one of the, we took one of the pins out with the acetate acid.
[00:27:47.560 --> 00:27:51.560] It is the first pin that I've given back to you as a third, in the space of a third pin.
[00:27:51.560 --> 00:27:59.960] But yeah, when I first came across this, and they said you didn't see these when we were kids, I always found that odd because I remember very distinctly in infant school.
[00:27:59.960 --> 00:28:02.520] So before primary school, so I was under the age of seven.
[00:28:02.520 --> 00:28:06.520] I remember lying in the field behind the school on a sunny playtime.
[00:28:06.520 --> 00:28:08.120] There were those dandelion clocks.
[00:28:08.120 --> 00:28:16.320] I remember lying on the long grass among the dandelion clocks, looking up and seeing those trails in the sky, because I used to call them skyscrapers.
[00:28:16.320 --> 00:28:16.800] Okay.
[00:28:16.800 --> 00:28:17.520] When I was a kid.
[00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:18.240] Yeah.
[00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:22.960] Because I'd heard that word before, but I'd never really seen a building taller than three stories.
[00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:26.080] Other than maybe a hospital, because my sister spent a lot of time in hospitals.
[00:28:26.080 --> 00:28:28.640] So there's some planes that are scraping the sky.
[00:28:28.640 --> 00:28:35.920] Yeah, what else could skyscraper mean other than the planes that go across the sky scraping clouds along with them?
[00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:38.800] That's definitely what a skyscraper has to be.
[00:28:38.800 --> 00:28:39.920] So I call them skyscrapers.
[00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:40.960] I'd heard the word.
[00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:42.320] That word must mean something.
[00:28:42.320 --> 00:28:43.600] Oh, that's scraping the sky.
[00:28:43.600 --> 00:28:44.720] That must be what that is.
[00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:48.320] It's a better term for that than for a really tall building.
[00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:54.480] Anyway, so they definitely existed before 1990 because I was six and seven in 1990.
[00:28:54.800 --> 00:28:58.640] I was six in the summer of 1990 and turned seven just at the end of it.
[00:28:58.640 --> 00:29:11.600] But yeah, so maybe when it comes to the generation older than me, the ones who grew up in the 70s, it might well be true that they didn't see many trails in the sky, not because the high altitude physics worked differently then, but because there were simply fewer flights back then.
[00:29:11.600 --> 00:29:12.480] And I looked this up.
[00:29:12.560 --> 00:29:14.320] The data is available from the government website.
[00:29:14.320 --> 00:29:15.200] You can find this out.
[00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:21.200] In 1950, for example, there were 195,000 air transport movements in the UK.
[00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:22.240] That's the term they use.
[00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:24.720] Air transport, but that's just when someone has a poo on a plane.
[00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:30.080] It is when they have a poo on a plane and then they just flush and it comes straight down and it kills someone in that urban myth.
[00:29:30.080 --> 00:29:33.280] No, an air transport movement is a takeoff or a landing.
[00:29:33.280 --> 00:29:35.760] It's like the combined number of takeoffs and landing.
[00:29:35.760 --> 00:29:36.080] Okay.
[00:29:36.080 --> 00:29:39.040] So things that have happened, events that have happened at an airport.
[00:29:39.040 --> 00:29:40.720] So you divide it by two?
[00:29:41.040 --> 00:29:46.160] Almost, because most flights are going to be counted in there once because they're going from here to somewhere else.
[00:29:46.160 --> 00:29:49.960] But there'll be some flights that were taking off in the UK and also landing in the UK.
[00:29:49.960 --> 00:29:51.520] And so they'll be double counted in there.
[00:29:51.520 --> 00:29:54.240] But I think the numbers are negligible enough to not worry about.
[00:29:54.240 --> 00:30:00.040] And also, we can say that we'll be doing an apples to apples comparison because we're using the same metric regardless.
[00:30:00.040 --> 00:30:03.240] So let's assume that each of those is basically a flight.
[00:29:59.760 --> 00:30:06.840] There will also be some flights who take off and never land because they crash.
[00:30:07.080 --> 00:30:07.560] That is true.
[00:30:07.560 --> 00:30:08.040] Yes.
[00:30:08.040 --> 00:30:10.120] But there's very, very, very, very, very few of those.
[00:30:10.360 --> 00:30:11.880] And there's even fewer that work the other way around.
[00:30:12.040 --> 00:30:12.680] Not the other way around.
[00:30:12.680 --> 00:30:16.040] They don't take off, but nothing lands that never took off.
[00:30:17.560 --> 00:30:25.320] But by so 195,000 in 1950, by 1970, that number had trebled to 607, the 607,000 air transport movements.
[00:30:25.320 --> 00:30:33.480] By 1990, when I was lying in that field behind my infant school, it was up to 1.37 million flights.
[00:30:34.200 --> 00:30:37.000] Yeah, 1,369,000 flights.
[00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:41.000] By 2010, it was 1,972,000 flights.
[00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:44.200] By 2019, it was 2.2 million flights.
[00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:48.360] By 2020, it was back down to 800,000 flights for obvious reasons.
[00:30:48.840 --> 00:30:54.600] But on average, there are 10 times as many flight events in the UK now as there were in 1950.
[00:30:54.600 --> 00:30:58.280] So 10 times as many chances of seeing a plane fly overhead.
[00:30:58.280 --> 00:31:04.440] And as I wrote that line earlier this afternoon, I literally heard a plane fly overhead from the nearby Liverpool airport.
[00:31:04.440 --> 00:31:05.560] You live quite near to the airport.
[00:31:05.560 --> 00:31:07.400] Yeah, we live not too far from the airport.
[00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:08.280] And that's the other thing.
[00:31:08.280 --> 00:31:11.080] Your proximity to an airport is going to make a difference as well.
[00:31:11.080 --> 00:31:22.760] So like while there were 195,000 flights in 1950, I couldn't find the data in it, but I imagine they were eskewed around some of the bigger airports and they're now going to be more diffuse around some of the more broader airports.
[00:31:22.760 --> 00:31:33.800] So if you lived in Huddersfield in 1950, you might have been less likely to see a plane in the air than if you lived there's less likely to be a plane going over Huddersfield.
[00:31:33.880 --> 00:31:35.240] Yeah, exactly.
[00:31:35.560 --> 00:31:37.720] And on top of all that, we've got confirmation bias.
[00:31:37.720 --> 00:31:52.960] You know, I happen to remember specifically noticing aeroplane trails when I was a kid, but if you didn't, your memory might instead be filled with the sunshine days of your youth, which you're comparing not to the sunny days of today, which still happen, but to the days that aren't sunny that you would expect to be sunny.
[00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:54.080] How come it isn't sunny today?
[00:31:54.080 --> 00:31:55.280] It was always sunny when I was a kid.
[00:31:55.280 --> 00:31:57.120] I bet it's them bloody chemtrails.
[00:31:57.120 --> 00:31:58.400] Why is it so cloudy?
[00:31:58.400 --> 00:32:01.120] I remember this sunny day 30 years ago.
[00:32:01.120 --> 00:32:02.800] It's got to be chemtrails.
[00:32:02.800 --> 00:32:08.080] Similarly, when it comes to the vinegar simmerers, we're almost certainly looking at a huge slice of confirmation bias.
[00:32:08.080 --> 00:32:11.600] Whenever I notice the clouds go away, it must have been because of my vinegar.
[00:32:11.600 --> 00:32:15.360] If the clouds haven't gone away, I clearly haven't moved long enough yet.
[00:32:15.600 --> 00:32:18.000] Leave it for a few days, eventually going to go.
[00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:20.880] But there's also the action of time, as you're saying, Alice.
[00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:22.640] Time is going to play a factor here.
[00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:24.080] Clouds move all the time.
[00:32:24.080 --> 00:32:28.080] We don't notice it because they're big and they're high and they're slow.
[00:32:28.080 --> 00:32:29.360] But they do move all the time.
[00:32:29.360 --> 00:32:31.760] They're constantly moving, probably quite quickly, in fact.
[00:32:31.760 --> 00:32:32.880] It's just not from our perspective.
[00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:42.960] If you see a cloud now, chances are when you check back again in 5, 10, 15 minutes, half an hour, it'll be nowhere to be seen or it'll change substantially.
[00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:51.200] That's going to be especially the case for contrails, the ones that are created by the movement of an airplane, because you notice them for their naturally non-occurring shape.
[00:32:51.200 --> 00:32:52.960] They're in this very specific straight line.
[00:32:52.960 --> 00:32:54.240] They're going to dissipate.
[00:32:54.400 --> 00:32:56.240] They were created by a plane that's now gone.
[00:32:56.240 --> 00:32:57.520] They're going to dissipate.
[00:32:57.520 --> 00:33:04.720] You check back 20 minutes later, you've got your vinegar out, hay pressed, or you've cured the sky, or the cloud has just dissipated like it's going to do.
[00:33:05.040 --> 00:33:07.840] You know, you can see it most of the time.
[00:33:07.840 --> 00:33:14.640] If you are lying on your back among dandelion clocks and can see and watch the clouds, you see them move.
[00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:16.240] Like they move really fucking fast.
[00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:16.800] Yeah, yeah.
[00:33:16.800 --> 00:33:23.360] When you think about how much, or if you see the the shadows of clouds on the ground and how fast a shadow moves, that's how fast the cloud is moving.
[00:33:23.360 --> 00:33:26.320] But obviously, you've got perspective to to make it uh look different.
[00:33:26.320 --> 00:33:28.560] Chemtrail fears are nothing new, of course.
[00:33:28.560 --> 00:35:04.400] In the December 2014 episode of be reasonable i interviewed harry rhodes for chemtrail projects uk whose fear at the time was that the government of the uk was spraying us with chemicals that would give us alzheimers and shorten our lifespan i pointed out at the time that spraying the entire country also means spraying the government and their friends and family yeah but he said that's because the people in charge have got access to the cure i was like right but who in the government has access to that and how far down does it go he said well prime minister david cameron has it obviously yeah and former prime minister gordon brown he knew all about it and deputy prime minister nick clegg but i remember saying to him nick clegg has he not done well to get isn't it really bad idea for nick clegg to have it because he's going to be out on his ass as soon as this coalition government collapses and then he's just given his family alzheimer's and himself alzheimers for no reason but again he didn't really uh see it that way well that's why he moved to the states as soon as he uh as soon as he left government no chemtrails in america the rather some of these videos are american we can look back even further than that one good way to see what people were worried about a while ago and especially when it comes to conspiracy theory how their fears have changed over time you can see what they've asked about using freedom of information laws if you go to the website what do they know it logs f oy requests and their responses over time the earliest reference to chemtrails i found on what do they know was from 2008 someone called veronica chapman she asked the department for environment food and rural affairs so defra quote for some time now i and many others have observed trails left by low-ish flying aircraft these trails do not disperse rapidly, as do those ice crystal vapor trails from high-flying jets.
[00:35:04.400 --> 00:35:16.720] Would you be so kind as to tell me the chemical composition of these slowly dispersing trails, who authorizes them, and what no effects, she meant none, they may have on the population of the United Kingdom?
[00:35:16.720 --> 00:35:22.400] Which is a very lovely, polite inquiry, to which she received a polite response from DEFRA: quote: Thank you for your email.
[00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:25.200] Unfortunately, DEFRA does not hold this information.
[00:35:25.200 --> 00:35:27.520] We believe it's an issue for the Department of Transport.
[00:35:27.520 --> 00:35:32.320] Veronica, however, was not to be put off by a simple, this has got literally nothing to do with us.
[00:35:32.560 --> 00:35:36.800] She responded, Are you suggesting that the environment is not affected?
[00:35:36.800 --> 00:35:41.920] That whatever is in these trails does not fall to the ground and enter the food/slash water chains?
[00:35:41.920 --> 00:35:51.760] I would still like to know your reasoning as to how something man-made that is falling from the sky has been given the all-clear as far as earth-bound living organisms are concerned.
[00:35:51.760 --> 00:35:58.000] As far as the environment is concerned, if you wish to put it like that, is the air we breathe being continually monitored?
[00:35:58.000 --> 00:35:59.760] If so, what are the results?
[00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:06.720] Do the air, water, and food supplies contain any unusual substances referenced back, say, to 30 years ago?
[00:36:06.720 --> 00:36:08.800] Again, DEFRA did their best to respond.
[00:36:08.800 --> 00:36:14.400] They said, In response to your recent inquiry concerning emissions from airplanes and air quality, this is a matter for the Department for Transport.
[00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:20.800] But I can confirm we monitor and assess air quality throughout the UK in accordance with EU air quality legislation.
[00:36:20.800 --> 00:36:22.560] DEFRA doing their best here.
[00:36:22.560 --> 00:36:23.440] Yeah, bless them.
[00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:26.080] Surprisingly, that wasn't enough, Veronica.
[00:36:26.720 --> 00:36:36.240] Thank you for your response and for answering one of my questions, i.e., to the effect that you are responsible for monitoring our air, and that is to EU quality standards.
[00:36:36.240 --> 00:36:43.040] May I therefore please have answers to my remaining questions, which I will repeat, slightly rephrased for your guidance.
[00:36:43.040 --> 00:36:45.600] And she asks about drinking water and things.
[00:36:45.600 --> 00:36:56.000] She gets told that drinking water is monitored by Drinking Water Inspectorate and food safety is monitored by the Food Standards Agency, and that air traffic is monitored by the Department for Transportation.
[00:36:56.320 --> 00:37:01.480] Veronica comes back yet again, quote, Dear Defra unhelpline.
[00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:05.480] Oh, yeah, yeah, you see what she's done there in an FOI request.
[00:37:05.720 --> 00:37:11.960] Yeah, thank you very much for your stonewalling and attempts to divert this FOI request.
[00:37:11.960 --> 00:37:15.320] Divert to the relevant part.
[00:37:15.640 --> 00:37:23.000] However, I have, in the meanwhile, had the good fortune to be told via a friend to check up on chemtrails.
[00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:29.000] When I did that, I saw many, many pictures from all over the world looking exactly like the sky markings I tried to describe.
[00:37:29.000 --> 00:37:29.880] And guess what?
[00:37:29.880 --> 00:37:31.080] Exclamation mark.
[00:37:31.080 --> 00:37:33.160] The answer to my questions were already known.
[00:37:33.160 --> 00:37:34.440] Exclamation mark.
[00:37:34.440 --> 00:37:42.040] These trails, in quotes, contain such substances as barium, open brackets, radioactive, question mark.
[00:37:43.320 --> 00:37:49.320] Barium meal given to x-ray patients, question mark, closed brackets, and aluminium.
[00:37:49.320 --> 00:37:53.720] I'm breathing, eating, and drinking barium and aluminium.
[00:37:53.720 --> 00:37:56.760] And the Department of the Environment doesn't mind.
[00:37:56.760 --> 00:37:58.600] This is within EU guidelines.
[00:37:58.600 --> 00:38:00.120] Question marks it all of us.
[00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:04.040] Well, I certainly mind, even if you and the EU don't.
[00:38:04.040 --> 00:38:06.120] But then apparently it gets worse.
[00:38:06.120 --> 00:38:11.480] This chemtrail soup also contains nanotechnology-site pathogens.
[00:38:11.480 --> 00:38:15.240] At which point she pastes in a definition of the word pathogen.
[00:38:15.240 --> 00:38:20.920] And these can accumulate and link together to destroy the electrochemical balance of any living creature.
[00:38:20.920 --> 00:38:28.600] Or, to put it another way, quote, this is a quote within the quote, they are very bold, not nice at all.
[00:38:28.600 --> 00:38:29.000] Yeah.
[00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:29.800] Close that quote.
[00:38:30.200 --> 00:38:36.760] All this information, she said, comes from qazon.org/slash forums, which includes a test to see if you are affected.
[00:38:36.760 --> 00:38:38.120] You will be.
[00:38:38.120 --> 00:38:40.040] And various detox methods.
[00:38:40.040 --> 00:38:48.640] Or, to put this another way, quote, the EU guidelines are obviously a very sick joke devised by some very sick people, unquote, within her quote.
[00:38:48.960 --> 00:38:53.200] DEFRA, you and your EU have been absolutely no help whatsoever.
[00:38:53.200 --> 00:38:59.360] In fact, deliberate hindrance in convert the commas would be a far more appicide description.
[00:38:59.360 --> 00:39:01.680] That's her freedom of information request.
[00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:04.080] I don't know what she's requesting.
[00:39:04.080 --> 00:39:06.000] Anyway, she gets a response.
[00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:24.400] She then goes back to say, Dear sir or madam, along with the information I received from elsewhere, came a homeopathic, there's your pin, Alice, detoxification method designed to kill without any side effects any parasitic activity that I may very well have inadvertently breathed in under your EU guidelines.
[00:39:24.400 --> 00:39:36.960] Since you presumably breathe the same EU guidelined air that I do, all I can do is wish you good luck in the long term with skin lesions that just don't seem to want to heal no matter what you do.
[00:39:36.960 --> 00:39:37.360] Okay.
[00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:39.280] Your sincerely, Veronica.
[00:39:39.280 --> 00:39:40.880] Eventually, she does hear back.
[00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:42.160] That's a freedom of information request.
[00:39:42.240 --> 00:39:42.800] I love it.
[00:39:43.280 --> 00:39:47.840] Brilliantly ironic if she'd only asked the Department of Transport and then they've told her exactly all of that.
[00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:51.760] The Department of Transport would have come back and said, Yeah, they're chemtrails.
[00:39:51.760 --> 00:39:53.440] They're full of aluminium and barium.
[00:39:53.440 --> 00:39:56.640] Like a barium meal that you might have when you're getting an x-ray.
[00:39:56.640 --> 00:39:58.960] Well, very quick pin to take straight back out.
[00:39:59.120 --> 00:39:59.520] Okay.
[00:39:59.520 --> 00:40:01.760] She does actually get a response from the Department for Transport.
[00:40:01.760 --> 00:40:02.080] Okay.
[00:40:02.080 --> 00:40:08.080] Because DEFRA, as part of their response to FOI, have to do the reasonable efforts to try and help out.
[00:40:08.080 --> 00:40:08.240] Okay.
[00:40:08.560 --> 00:40:09.040] They fold it.
[00:40:09.120 --> 00:40:09.760] So they see she's there.
[00:40:09.840 --> 00:40:10.560] Oh, yeah, of course she did.
[00:40:10.640 --> 00:40:12.480] And the Department of Transport answered.
[00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:18.240] And they answered to say that the trails that Veronica can see in the sky, are ice particles and water vapor.
[00:40:18.240 --> 00:40:20.400] And the planes she's seeing, they're just commercial flights.
[00:40:20.400 --> 00:40:21.280] So, who authorized them?
[00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:22.400] Well, they're commercial flights.
[00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:22.560] Yes.
[00:40:22.720 --> 00:40:26.480] And there's no scientific evidence for any health concerns about contrails.
[00:40:26.480 --> 00:40:44.280] Though there is some exploration as to the contribution of contrails to climate change and whether that amount of cloud is contributing to climate change, and whether mitigation, if airplanes took mitigation methods to avoid producing contrails, would that actually come in CO2 negative or CO2 positive?
[00:40:44.280 --> 00:40:47.320] Could you be like expelling more CO2 to try and avoid doing it?
[00:40:47.320 --> 00:40:47.800] Sure.
[00:40:47.800 --> 00:40:50.760] All very reasonable, all very patiently explained.
[00:40:50.760 --> 00:40:52.840] And so, Veronica said, Thanks very much.
[00:40:52.840 --> 00:40:54.280] My fears are allayed.
[00:40:54.280 --> 00:40:55.800] I really appreciate it.
[00:40:55.800 --> 00:41:15.640] Yeah, all inevitably ignored by Veronica, who said, Thank you for the documentation on contrails, which is totally irrelevant because my question was about chemtrails, which have been analyzed to contain barium and aluminium, etc., and also some for of nanoparticles, which brackets possibly create Morgellin's disease.
[00:41:15.640 --> 00:41:25.640] I'm not in the slightest bit interested in contrails left by high-flying aircraft, even where these ice crystals may contain a small amount of unburned kerosene, brackets, paraffin.
[00:41:25.640 --> 00:41:44.040] The unusual markings of this FOI request relate to chemtrails, brackets, google it, exclamation mark, close brackets, left by low-flying aircraft in various shapes, such as Vs and X's, parallel lines, etc.
[00:41:44.280 --> 00:41:48.120] Sometimes these cover the entire sky as they spread out.
[00:41:48.120 --> 00:41:57.800] According to independent analysts, these chemtrails comprise such substances as barium, which is, of course, radioactive, aluminium, and other materials.
[00:41:57.800 --> 00:42:08.680] There is good information on the internet to state that these chemtrails also contain nanoparticles, brackets, Google it, exclamation mark, close brackets, which cause Morgellin's disease.
[00:42:08.680 --> 00:42:10.840] Brackets, Google it, okay, good.
[00:42:12.360 --> 00:42:14.880] Chemtrails are what form the submit this R request.
[00:42:14.600 --> 00:42:17.520] I would like confirmation of the exact chemical composition.
[00:42:14.680 --> 00:42:20.720] I would like confirmation of exactly how long it's been going on for.
[00:42:21.040 --> 00:42:23.200] Brackets, some have said two decades.
[00:42:23.200 --> 00:42:25.920] I would like to know who authorizes this and why.
[00:42:25.920 --> 00:42:30.240] Since I breathe the air, eat the food from the food chain, drink the water.
[00:42:30.240 --> 00:42:32.240] I think I have the right to know.
[00:42:32.240 --> 00:42:33.520] Don't you?
[00:42:33.840 --> 00:42:34.800] And so it goes on.
[00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:36.720] That's just the oldest FOI trailer could find.
[00:42:36.720 --> 00:42:37.600] I bloody love seeing this.
[00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:38.480] What year was that?
[00:42:38.480 --> 00:42:39.520] 2008.
[00:42:39.520 --> 00:42:41.440] It's by no means the only one.
[00:42:41.440 --> 00:42:50.240] In 2009, John FOI, the Ministry of Defense, over the chemical spraying of the public, asking, Can you provide any documentation to clarify chemtrails?
[00:42:50.240 --> 00:42:53.280] In 2002, the MOD admitted spraying the public.
[00:42:53.280 --> 00:42:57.920] If this is still the case, as I believe it is, what is the purpose and who funds the spraying?
[00:42:57.920 --> 00:42:59.840] What chemicals are used in the spraying?
[00:42:59.840 --> 00:43:02.480] The MOD said, we have no information on this.
[00:43:02.480 --> 00:43:17.360] In 2011, Freeman Kev, who signed off his FOI, Kevin Commer, as commonly called, he asked the Department for Transport about the high-altitude spraying, which has been going on overhead in Britain and other countries for some years now.
[00:43:17.360 --> 00:43:20.000] I am not referring to contrails.
[00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:31.440] Please do not make the mistake of referring to any ice crystals forming around unburned jet fuel or other such references to contrails, which I am quite aware of and I understand just fine.
[00:43:31.440 --> 00:43:34.880] Kev was not happy with the response that he received.
[00:43:34.880 --> 00:43:35.440] I bet he wasn't.
[00:43:35.600 --> 00:43:36.720] I think you can imagine why.
[00:43:38.320 --> 00:43:52.080] And in 2021, Anne asked the Civil Aviation Authority to receive details of the airline's aircraft involved in the flight paths of these aircraft, which have been spraying chemtrails over West Yorkshire and Leeds area in particular, during April 2021.
[00:43:52.080 --> 00:43:57.680] The most recent occurrence has been today, 26th of April 2021, between the hours of 9 a.m.
[00:43:57.680 --> 00:43:58.720] and 10:30 a.m.
[00:43:58.960 --> 00:44:09.960] She said, I'm very concerned regarding the chemicals being sprayed as they are likely to be harmful to all life and are probably causing terraforming and geoengineering of the environment for nefarious purposes.
[00:44:09.960 --> 00:44:12.520] Please do not try and tell me these are contrails.
[00:44:12.520 --> 00:44:17.480] I've seen chemtrails, I know the difference, and I have photos to prove it.
[00:44:17.480 --> 00:44:23.560] The CAA did not have the information that Anne sought and still didn't have it two years later when M.
[00:44:23.560 --> 00:44:25.720] Horne asked a similar question.
[00:44:26.040 --> 00:44:27.400] It's not Mark Horne.
[00:44:27.400 --> 00:44:30.120] No, it's not a former of this podcast in Parish.
[00:44:30.120 --> 00:44:31.400] It's H-O-R-N.
[00:44:31.400 --> 00:44:33.080] So I don't think it is Mark Horne.
[00:44:33.400 --> 00:44:35.480] That could be just a, I was going to say a cunning disguise.
[00:44:35.640 --> 00:44:37.160] It could be an especially disguise.
[00:44:39.160 --> 00:44:40.280] If that's how he's done it.
[00:44:40.280 --> 00:44:41.800] Unless it's a double bluff.
[00:44:41.800 --> 00:44:45.320] Oh, Mark is smart enough to come up with a better disguise than that.
[00:44:45.640 --> 00:44:46.840] I could go on.
[00:44:46.840 --> 00:44:48.040] I won't go on too much.
[00:44:48.040 --> 00:44:59.160] But there was a February 2025 request from John, which included 18 exclamation marks, a bit shoot video, and the final question: Don't you care about humanity's future?
[00:44:59.160 --> 00:45:00.920] Do you have kids?
[00:45:00.920 --> 00:45:03.240] Which was beyond the scope of the Met Office.
[00:45:03.240 --> 00:45:06.360] That was not something the Met Office were prepared to answer.
[00:45:06.360 --> 00:45:16.600] And an April 2025 FOI from Roy to the Department for Environment, Food, and Rural Affairs, asking for information about, quote, blocking out sun by chemtrails.
[00:45:16.600 --> 00:45:26.440] That FOI is still open, but I doubt the answers will be much different to what Veronica received in 2008, 17 years previously.
[00:45:26.440 --> 00:45:44.360] I don't suspect the chemtrailers or the vinegar simmerers are especially dangerous or a major threat, other than to the productivity of governmental freedom of information departments, but neither were the flat earthers, other than it was another thing to keep the paranoic fires burning and the conspiracy cauldrons bubbling.
[00:45:44.360 --> 00:45:58.960] I'm seeing more and more people falling back on the geoengineering chemtrail conspiracy theories lately, particularly as the COVID forever lockdowns didn't happen and the 5G towers were forgotten about and the vaccine didn't kill us all.
[00:45:58.960 --> 00:46:01.760] And this kind of rhetoric and fear can have some effect.
[00:46:01.760 --> 00:46:04.480] Earlier this month, there were reports that eight states in the U.S.
[00:46:04.560 --> 00:46:07.520] introduced legislation to outlaw chemtrails.
[00:46:07.520 --> 00:46:13.200] Florida and Tennessee legislation prohibits the geoengineering or weather modification.
[00:46:13.200 --> 00:46:25.600] And Louisiana ordered the Department of Environmental Quality to record reported chemtrail sightings and pass complaints over to the Louisiana Air National Guard, despite chemtrails very much not being a real thing.
[00:46:25.600 --> 00:46:26.880] Yeah, they don't exist.
[00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:44.240] Yeah, it's unclear how much these legislators believe in this cause or how much they just want to pander to the conspiracist base that got their team elected while tainting by association any efforts to mitigate climate change that might be passively mischaracterized as chemtrail geoengineering.
[00:46:44.240 --> 00:47:00.320] Thankfully, we're not seeing that in the UK legislature just yet, though I do know for a fact there are people talking to their local MPs about it at a time when those MPs have much more pressing matters to attend to, because at least one of those MPs has asked me about it, whether we knew much about it.
[00:47:00.320 --> 00:47:01.520] I hope it stays that way.
[00:47:01.520 --> 00:47:02.880] I hope it stays fringe.
[00:47:02.880 --> 00:47:10.480] And I hope the most that we have to fear from these chemtrail cloudbusters is the faint whiff of warm vinegar on a cloudy afternoon.
[00:47:14.000 --> 00:47:15.760] So I've just got back from Mallorca.
[00:47:15.760 --> 00:47:16.160] Yes.
[00:47:16.480 --> 00:47:18.000] I've not been back very long at all.
[00:47:18.000 --> 00:47:18.880] And it was a lovely time.
[00:47:18.880 --> 00:47:20.240] It was very sunny, nice.
[00:47:20.320 --> 00:47:26.000] There are many stories I can regale you both with from my time in Mallorca featuring such characters as German Dad.
[00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:26.720] German Dad.
[00:47:26.720 --> 00:47:28.560] German Dad was a lovely guy.
[00:47:28.560 --> 00:47:31.240] There was the lifeguard who looked like Jay Novella.
[00:47:31.240 --> 00:47:31.720] Okay.
[00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:37.160] He was there all week, except the Saturday and Saturday off, where we decided that lifeguard was Bob Novella.
[00:47:37.160 --> 00:47:37.560] Fair.
[00:47:37.560 --> 00:47:41.560] Didn't look anything like Bob Novella, but nobody knows what Bob looks like, so it's fine.
[00:47:44.120 --> 00:47:46.680] There was the most judgmental man in the world.
[00:47:46.680 --> 00:47:47.800] Wow, he was there.
[00:47:48.600 --> 00:47:49.560] That was a good time.
[00:47:49.560 --> 00:47:51.720] But you've given him that moniker.
[00:47:51.720 --> 00:47:52.120] Yes.
[00:47:52.120 --> 00:47:53.800] That makes you quite judgmental.
[00:47:54.440 --> 00:47:57.000] Have you outjudged the most judgmental man in the world?
[00:47:57.000 --> 00:48:03.640] The most judgmental man in the world unironically made use of the word muff for the first time in 20 years.
[00:48:03.640 --> 00:48:03.880] Wow.
[00:48:04.600 --> 00:48:05.640] Which was appalling.
[00:48:05.640 --> 00:48:07.800] There was the moment where I found ants in the sugar.
[00:48:07.800 --> 00:48:08.680] That was exciting.
[00:48:08.680 --> 00:48:09.160] Nice.
[00:48:09.560 --> 00:48:11.240] So I'm not going to tell you any of those stories.
[00:48:11.240 --> 00:48:11.720] No.
[00:48:11.720 --> 00:48:18.120] I'm not even going to mention the fact that the ceiling of the airport collapsed the day after I was there.
[00:48:18.120 --> 00:48:18.520] Really?
[00:48:18.840 --> 00:48:25.160] As I came up on the news, and it was like literally a corridor I had walked down, but 36 hours earlier.
[00:48:25.480 --> 00:48:26.200] And the roof would fall.
[00:48:26.280 --> 00:48:27.880] You're making it sound quite suspicious now.
[00:48:28.920 --> 00:48:30.120] Yeah, you are.
[00:48:30.440 --> 00:48:37.000] And the journey back, the flight got delayed, and it was horrible, and it was late at night, and it was very stressful, and it was loud.
[00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:43.080] And it was, frankly, what happened was I got back and went to the cinema and watched 28 Years Later.
[00:48:43.080 --> 00:48:44.040] Oh, nice.
[00:48:44.040 --> 00:48:45.800] I fucking love 28 Years Later.
[00:48:45.800 --> 00:48:46.040] Really?
[00:48:46.040 --> 00:48:49.240] Because 28 months later, what it was called, 28 Weeks Later was terrible.
[00:48:49.480 --> 00:48:50.360] Yeah, it wasn't looking at all.
[00:48:50.360 --> 00:48:50.760] It was awful.
[00:48:50.840 --> 00:48:51.720] It wasn't very good.
[00:48:51.720 --> 00:48:53.640] I really liked 28 Days Later, though.
[00:48:53.640 --> 00:48:54.280] Excellent film.
[00:48:54.280 --> 00:48:55.960] 28 Days Later was that one of my favourite films.
[00:48:56.200 --> 00:48:58.360] I think 28 Years is a better film.
[00:48:59.320 --> 00:49:00.280] That might be strong.
[00:49:00.280 --> 00:49:01.880] In fairness, that might be strong.
[00:49:01.880 --> 00:49:04.760] The last act of 28 Days Later is a bit weaker.
[00:49:04.760 --> 00:49:11.480] Once we get to like Christopher Ecclesden and stuff, it gets Killian Murphy taking down all the Marines or whatever they were.
[00:49:11.720 --> 00:49:12.680] That's a little bit weaker.
[00:49:12.680 --> 00:49:13.800] It lets it down a little bit at that point.
[00:49:13.880 --> 00:49:17.920] And there were like three different endings that they did for 28 Days as well.
[00:49:14.920 --> 00:49:20.560] So they shot two of them and one was only storyboarded.
[00:49:21.200 --> 00:49:23.920] But the two that they shot both involved.
[00:49:23.920 --> 00:49:27.760] Sorry, the alternative one that they shot involved Killian Murphy dying.
[00:49:27.760 --> 00:49:28.400] Right, yeah.
[00:49:28.400 --> 00:49:31.440] That didn't play, from what I remember, that didn't play well with test audiences.
[00:49:31.440 --> 00:49:37.040] So they did the one where they survive and they're living in Cumbria and write, I think they're writing things with sheets.
[00:49:37.040 --> 00:49:38.000] Yeah, yeah, bed sheets.
[00:49:38.160 --> 00:49:39.200] As the plane goes overhead.
[00:49:39.200 --> 00:49:43.760] And there was a third alternative ending that they didn't shoot to the but they did storyboard.
[00:49:43.840 --> 00:49:45.680] Was it on a dream and he's still in the hospital?
[00:49:46.000 --> 00:50:01.520] Well, at the moment they reach Christopher Eccleston's character, rather than meeting Christopher Eccleston's character at that moment, instead they come across someone who has the cure for the plague and they're using it to cure the dad, you know, the dad character who gets infected with the body.
[00:50:01.600 --> 00:50:07.040] But the cure's just in a little girl's head and they have to kill the girl to get the cure out and then they don't do that.
[00:50:07.040 --> 00:50:14.960] Well, no, the cure turns out to be a blood transfusion, a 100% blood transfusion, take all of your blood out and completely replace it.
[00:50:15.120 --> 00:50:16.320] And that was the cure.
[00:50:16.320 --> 00:50:24.000] And so Killian Murphy's character sacrifices himself to save the dad so he can be with his daughter because you've got that story between the dad and the daughter.
[00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:24.880] And that was probably the alternative.
[00:50:24.960 --> 00:50:26.400] They're going to do a full blood transfusion.
[00:50:26.400 --> 00:50:28.320] Somebody has to give all of their blood.
[00:50:28.320 --> 00:50:32.080] Yeah, they need enough blood to kill somebody else.
[00:50:32.080 --> 00:50:33.040] That's why they never did it.
[00:50:33.440 --> 00:50:34.080] It's terrible.
[00:50:34.160 --> 00:50:34.400] That's not the same thing.
[00:50:34.560 --> 00:50:38.640] But also, because they had established that a single drop of blood was enough to establish an infection.
[00:50:38.640 --> 00:50:45.040] And it's like you can't realistically flush every single drop of blood out of somebody to replace it with other blood.
[00:50:45.440 --> 00:50:45.840] It can't be.
[00:50:46.000 --> 00:50:48.000] And that's why they didn't go down that ending.
[00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:50.560] But 28 Years, I think, is a better film.
[00:50:50.560 --> 00:50:51.040] Okay.
[00:50:51.040 --> 00:50:51.760] I really enjoyed it.
[00:50:51.840 --> 00:50:53.360] I had a lot of cry in it.
[00:50:53.360 --> 00:50:56.080] It's almost entirely set in your castle.
[00:50:56.080 --> 00:50:56.720] Is it?
[00:50:56.720 --> 00:50:57.520] That's not quite true.
[00:50:57.520 --> 00:50:58.960] It's set on Linda's farm.
[00:50:59.200 --> 00:51:01.640] So it's almost entirely set on Lindisfarne, yeah.
[00:51:01.640 --> 00:51:03.000] So it's all set in the Northeast.
[00:50:59.920 --> 00:51:07.080] The whole cast is doing Geordie accents all the way through, which must drive the...
[00:51:07.080 --> 00:51:10.280] At one point, they all get together in the village hall and sing The Blade and Racers.
[00:51:10.280 --> 00:51:11.080] Oh, nice.
[00:51:11.080 --> 00:51:15.800] I literally sat in the cinema and went when The Blade and Racers came on.
[00:51:15.800 --> 00:51:16.680] I really liked it.
[00:51:16.680 --> 00:51:17.240] It was a really good.
[00:51:17.400 --> 00:51:18.440] I would definitely recommend it.
[00:51:18.680 --> 00:51:19.320] I'll have to watch it.
[00:51:19.800 --> 00:51:20.280] I really enjoyed it.
[00:51:20.280 --> 00:51:22.120] I've over egged it and you both hate it now.
[00:51:22.440 --> 00:51:29.400] But it's genuinely a good film, and I think the best work of Danny Boyle and Alex Garland, certainly on collaboration.
[00:51:29.560 --> 00:51:37.560] I can highly recommend a film that I saw, that Nicola and I saw at the cinema, which was The Ballad of Wallace Island, which is a film written by Tom Basdan and Tim Key.
[00:51:37.560 --> 00:51:38.760] And I bloody love Tim Key.
[00:51:38.760 --> 00:51:39.320] I like Tim Key.
[00:51:39.480 --> 00:51:43.240] He's got a horribly sinister mateiness about him.
[00:51:43.240 --> 00:51:43.560] Right.
[00:51:44.040 --> 00:51:49.800] He seems like he'd be very friendly, but might also snap and kill someone at any given moment.
[00:51:49.800 --> 00:51:50.680] It's incredible.
[00:51:51.080 --> 00:52:00.760] I won't say too much about it other than it's set on a remote island and a musician goes there for a small intimate gig, sort of paid for by someone quite rich.
[00:52:00.760 --> 00:52:02.280] But it's a beautiful film.
[00:52:02.280 --> 00:52:08.040] And it's another film that I cried during because it's amazingly lovely and wholesome and wonderful and very funny.
[00:52:08.040 --> 00:52:10.840] So yeah, everybody see The Ballad of Wallace Island if you can.
[00:52:11.080 --> 00:52:15.560] It might not play in many cinemas for very long because it's a very small film, but it's excellent.
[00:52:15.560 --> 00:52:17.560] It's one of the best ones I've seen in a long time.
[00:52:17.560 --> 00:52:19.960] Alice, any film recommendations while we're here?
[00:52:19.960 --> 00:52:21.560] Or life stories you want to share?
[00:52:21.560 --> 00:52:23.400] I don't think I've seen any films recently.
[00:52:23.400 --> 00:52:24.920] I don't watch films very often.
[00:52:24.920 --> 00:52:25.880] What is your favourite film?
[00:52:25.880 --> 00:52:29.000] What's the film that you would say is your favourite film of the world?
[00:52:29.240 --> 00:52:31.720] I don't know that I have a favourite film now.
[00:52:31.720 --> 00:52:33.800] When I was a kid, it was The Mummy.
[00:52:33.800 --> 00:52:34.760] The Brendan Fraser.
[00:52:35.640 --> 00:52:36.120] You found them all.
[00:52:37.160 --> 00:52:38.680] Well, yeah, it helped.
[00:52:38.680 --> 00:52:39.400] And it did.
[00:52:39.400 --> 00:52:42.120] 20 Days Later, it was a favourite for a while.
[00:52:42.120 --> 00:52:44.200] But I wouldn't say I have a favourite film now.
[00:52:44.200 --> 00:52:47.920] I don't really have anything that I go back and re-watch.
[00:52:44.440 --> 00:52:50.320] It's TV series that I go back and re-watch.
[00:52:51.040 --> 00:52:57.120] I feel television is very much the new movie in terms of the prestige storytelling medium.
[00:52:57.120 --> 00:52:59.440] I think that's shifted to television a lot.
[00:52:59.440 --> 00:53:00.000] That's true.
[00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:03.760] Although, in terms of re-watching, I think I'd be more likely to re-watch films than of TV.
[00:53:03.920 --> 00:53:05.120] So it's probably reasonable.
[00:53:05.440 --> 00:53:09.120] And I'll never get bored of re-watching Miller's Crossing.
[00:53:09.440 --> 00:53:11.360] I've got to do that periodically.
[00:53:11.360 --> 00:53:11.680] Yeah.
[00:53:12.240 --> 00:53:12.880] And brick as well.
[00:53:12.880 --> 00:53:13.840] Ryan Joyce is brick.
[00:53:13.840 --> 00:53:15.520] I'm a big, absolutely love.
[00:53:16.480 --> 00:53:18.960] It's excellent as a film noir.
[00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:25.360] If you can accept the conceit, which is it's like a gritty gumshoe private detective.
[00:53:25.360 --> 00:53:25.760] Sure.
[00:53:25.760 --> 00:53:30.000] Except it's set in sort of college, like high school, college kind of time.
[00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:36.480] And so they're all talking in the slick, fast-paced kind of noir language, but they're all just college kids, basically.
[00:53:36.480 --> 00:53:38.000] It's Jose and God and Levitt.
[00:53:38.000 --> 00:53:40.640] Oh, from Third Rock and the Sun.
[00:53:40.640 --> 00:53:41.440] Yeah, exactly.
[00:53:41.440 --> 00:53:41.760] Okay.
[00:53:41.760 --> 00:53:42.320] Awesome.
[00:53:42.320 --> 00:53:43.440] Exciting.
[00:53:47.600 --> 00:53:54.480] So, QED, at the time of recording, there are but a handful of tickets left for the final ever QED.
[00:53:54.480 --> 00:53:57.520] Yeah, there are like technically four handsful.
[00:53:57.520 --> 00:54:02.000] Yes, there are fewer than four hands full of tickets left at the time of recording.
[00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:07.680] So if you're very, very lucky listeners, you might still be able to get a QED ticket when this show goes out.
[00:54:07.680 --> 00:54:12.480] If not, this is almost certainly the last show where we're going to be able to say there are still QED tickets available.
[00:54:12.720 --> 00:54:14.720] Yes, online tickets will remain available.
[00:54:14.720 --> 00:54:17.200] So you can still do it online, absolutely.
[00:54:17.200 --> 00:54:21.520] And you'll see everything online from the main stage, the podcast room, and the panel room.
[00:54:21.520 --> 00:54:22.000] Yeah.
[00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:28.480] But, yeah, genuine, proper in-person tickets for the final QED almost certainly will not be available by the time you're listening to this.
[00:54:28.480 --> 00:54:31.400] But if they are, there will be a very small number.
[00:54:29.520 --> 00:54:33.400] So, you should definitely get onto that.
[00:54:33.400 --> 00:54:35.800] We've also made some announcements for QED recently.
[00:54:35.800 --> 00:54:36.120] We have.
[00:54:36.120 --> 00:54:38.520] We've announced two speakers and a podcast.
[00:54:38.520 --> 00:54:39.640] We have announced a podcast.
[00:54:39.800 --> 00:54:41.560] So, the podcast we've announced was this podcast.
[00:54:41.560 --> 00:54:42.040] We're going to do it.
[00:54:42.200 --> 00:54:43.240] Which we already pre-announced on the show.
[00:54:43.400 --> 00:54:44.440] We also announced on the show.
[00:54:44.760 --> 00:54:47.480] But it's now official, official, official that it's on the QED website.
[00:54:47.480 --> 00:54:49.320] And it's up on the website and stuff now as well.
[00:54:49.320 --> 00:54:53.080] Yeah, we also have announced Abby Phillips as a speaker.
[00:54:53.080 --> 00:54:56.280] Yes, the liver doc, who knows from social media.
[00:54:56.280 --> 00:55:00.680] He's an incredibly prolific debunker of alternative medicine in India.
[00:55:00.680 --> 00:55:01.960] So we're bringing him over from India.
[00:55:01.960 --> 00:55:11.640] And I think that that Indian perspective is something that's going to be really interesting because we talk about the way that alternative medicine affects the UK, America, even parts of Europe.
[00:55:11.640 --> 00:55:14.360] And we know the landscape that that plays out in.
[00:55:14.360 --> 00:55:19.800] But the way that affects other parts of the world is obviously going to play out in a very differently culturally kind of bound-up way.
[00:55:19.800 --> 00:55:24.920] And the effects of things like Ayurvedic medicine, homeopathic medicine, and also tainted medicine.
[00:55:24.920 --> 00:55:38.520] So like an alternative medicine that has been tainted with a real drug or tainted with lead and other heavy metals and the effect that that has on the local population, especially where they may not have good access to excellent healthcare.
[00:55:38.520 --> 00:55:40.440] That's something that we've never really explored.
[00:55:40.440 --> 00:55:43.000] And that's something that Abby Phillips will be able to tell us a lot about.
[00:55:43.000 --> 00:55:57.080] He's a liver specialist, certainly one of India's leading specialists on the detrimental effects of alternative medicine on the liver in particular, because heavy metal poisoning and things that will particularly affect the liver.
[00:55:57.080 --> 00:56:07.320] And he's someone who's been so outspoken that he's been threatened with all sorts of lawsuits from essentially big homeopathy and big Ayurveda in India to try and silence him.
[00:56:07.320 --> 00:56:12.600] So he's someone who's taking that fight, for want of a better word, directly to where it's needed.
[00:56:12.600 --> 00:56:16.240] And in doing so, facing a huge amount of opposition as well.
[00:56:16.240 --> 00:56:19.600] The other speaker that we have announced is Subhadra Das.
[00:56:19.600 --> 00:56:31.440] So Subhadra is a writer and historian and broadcaster and comedian, which says to me entertaining stage presence, which is always a great time, who looks at the relationship between science and society.
[00:56:31.440 --> 00:56:34.000] So that's the kind of stuff that Subadra is going to be talking about.
[00:56:34.000 --> 00:56:44.320] So she talks about the history, especially the philosophy of science, and with a particular focus on race and scientific racism and eugenics.
[00:56:44.320 --> 00:56:47.120] So that's going to be a fantastic talk from Subadra Das as well.
[00:56:47.120 --> 00:56:49.200] I think it's going to be a fantastic time.
[00:56:49.200 --> 00:56:51.680] We've still got many, many more things to announce for QED.
[00:56:51.680 --> 00:56:52.800] There are many podcasts to come.
[00:56:52.800 --> 00:56:55.680] We've started putting some panels together.
[00:56:55.680 --> 00:56:59.440] And we probably, there's no point in mentioning them because we can't sell you tickets anymore.
[00:56:59.920 --> 00:57:00.960] We'll never mention QED again.
[00:57:01.120 --> 00:57:01.920] Never mentioned it again.
[00:57:01.920 --> 00:57:03.040] It's just never come up.
[00:57:03.040 --> 00:57:05.600] But yes, it is your last chance to grab your QED tickets.
[00:57:05.840 --> 00:57:08.400] You can go and do that at QEDCon.org.
[00:57:09.040 --> 00:57:11.440] Aside from that, then I think that is all we have time for.
[00:57:11.440 --> 00:57:12.000] I think it is.
[00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:14.400] All that remains then is for me to thank Marsh for coming along today.
[00:57:14.400 --> 00:57:14.800] Thank you.
[00:57:14.800 --> 00:57:15.680] Thank you to Alice.
[00:57:15.680 --> 00:57:16.160] Thank you.
[00:57:16.160 --> 00:57:18.720] We have been Skeptics with a K and we will see you next time.
[00:57:18.720 --> 00:57:19.360] Bye now.
[00:57:19.360 --> 00:57:20.240] Bye.
[00:57:25.040 --> 00:57:30.160] Skeptics with a K is produced by Skeptic Media in association with the Merseyside Skeptic Society.
[00:57:30.160 --> 00:57:39.200] For questions or comments, email podcast at skepticswithakay.org and you can find out more about Merseyside Skeptics at merseyside skeptics.org.uk.