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[00:00:00.480 --> 00:00:06.000] Ford was built on the belief that the world doesn't get to decide what you're capable of.
[00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:06.960] You do.
[00:00:06.960 --> 00:00:10.480] So, ask yourself: can you or can't you?
[00:00:10.480 --> 00:00:15.280] Can you load up a Ford F-150 and build your dream with sweat and steel?
[00:00:15.280 --> 00:00:18.960] Can you chase thrills and conquer curves in a Mustang?
[00:00:18.960 --> 00:00:23.440] Can you take a Bronco to where the map ends and adventure begins?
[00:00:23.440 --> 00:00:27.520] Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right.
[00:00:27.520 --> 00:00:28.400] Ready?
[00:00:28.400 --> 00:00:29.200] Set.
[00:00:29.200 --> 00:00:30.480] Ford.
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[00:00:56.960 --> 00:00:59.600] We are Value City Furniture.
[00:01:07.360 --> 00:01:14.880] It is Thursday, the 12th of June, 2025, and you're listening to Skeptics with a K, the podcast for science, reason, and critical thinking.
[00:01:14.880 --> 00:01:25.840] Skeptics with a K is produced by Skeptic Media in association with the Merseyside Skeptic Society, a non-profit organization for the promotion of scientific skepticism on Merseyside around the UK and internationally.
[00:01:25.840 --> 00:01:27.200] I'm your host, Mike Hall.
[00:01:27.200 --> 00:01:28.480] With me today is Marsh.
[00:01:28.480 --> 00:01:29.760] Hello and Alice.
[00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:30.480] Hello.
[00:01:30.480 --> 00:01:35.440] So one of the things we talk about fairly often on this show is our love of attending weird events.
[00:01:35.680 --> 00:01:38.880] We went to see David Icke giving a four-hour lecture in Southport.
[00:01:38.880 --> 00:01:44.160] We spent a weekend at the Flat Earth Conference and a different weekend at Lynn McTaggart's Get Well conference.
[00:01:44.160 --> 00:01:53.920] We've been to Gerson Therapy lectures and QAnon seminars and psychic shows and anti-vax rallies and 150 Minute City protests and countless mind-body-spirit events.
[00:01:53.920 --> 00:01:55.280] It's one of my favorite things to do.
[00:01:55.280 --> 00:01:56.160] I absolutely love it.
[00:01:56.160 --> 00:01:56.880] It's a meet mix.
[00:01:56.960 --> 00:01:59.760] I think also it's a meeting makes our show fairly unique.
[00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:09.480] I don't think there's many shows out there in that we actually these days are not many shows out there that turn up to the odd things that we skeptics like to talk about and then kind of report on it like firsthand.
[00:02:09.720 --> 00:02:10.360] You can say that now.
[00:02:12.120 --> 00:02:12.360] Exactly.
[00:02:12.440 --> 00:02:22.360] I mean, I think it was only them and us, and I don't know, maybe like QAA so QAnon Anonymous would go on to QAnon rallies and talk about it, but like there's not many who do this kind of thing.
[00:02:22.360 --> 00:02:27.160] And incidentally, the only reason that we're able to do any of that is because of the support of our listeners.
[00:02:27.160 --> 00:02:38.760] So, listeners, yeah, if you do like to send us, or rather, let's face it, me and Alice, off to these oddities to report back from, that's a great reason to sign up to our Patreon at patreon.com forward slash skeptics with a K.
[00:02:38.760 --> 00:02:47.720] Since our show became an independent production at the start of the year, that's the best place to invest in torturing us for your own audio amusement across the next however many years.
[00:02:47.720 --> 00:02:48.600] That is a place to go.
[00:02:48.600 --> 00:02:50.120] I honestly don't know how you can do it.
[00:02:50.120 --> 00:02:54.840] I've got no idea how you can do those things and go there and be in that space.
[00:02:55.080 --> 00:02:59.080] It just makes my skin crawl just fucking thinking about it.
[00:02:59.080 --> 00:03:02.040] Listeners will have a different response to that by the end of this story.
[00:03:02.040 --> 00:03:07.080] Because we talked a lot on the show about the products of those excursions.
[00:03:07.080 --> 00:03:08.760] The weird experience we've had.
[00:03:08.760 --> 00:03:15.320] I've talked about being smeared in neem by a man who claimed that covering himself in neem cream is the reason he didn't look 80.
[00:03:15.320 --> 00:03:18.440] When in actuality, I think it's just that he wasn't 80.
[00:03:18.440 --> 00:03:20.200] People have lying about his age.
[00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:25.240] We've talked about getting a crystal reading in a former military base in the Midlands.
[00:03:25.240 --> 00:03:32.600] We've told you about the time that Alice got to listen to a digitized version of DNA, courtesy of a vet/slash sovereign citizen.
[00:03:34.760 --> 00:03:37.880] There was no indication that he was a vet on any of that stuff.
[00:03:38.440 --> 00:03:39.720] It just happens that I knew him.
[00:03:39.720 --> 00:03:40.680] Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[00:03:40.680 --> 00:03:47.840] Which is which is interesting because most other Woo practitioners would be using that to legitimize their position on things.
[00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:49.680] Like, I'm a medical professional.
[00:03:50.160 --> 00:03:53.920] Yes, I'm medic for animals, but still, medical professional.
[00:03:55.840 --> 00:03:56.480] Here's what I learned.
[00:03:56.720 --> 00:03:58.240] There you go, exactly.
[00:03:58.240 --> 00:03:59.200] You can't do that.
[00:03:59.200 --> 00:04:00.080] That was so long ago.
[00:04:01.520 --> 00:04:04.800] We've literally no idea how long ago that callback is.
[00:04:05.120 --> 00:04:11.520] I've also mentioned a time that Sally Morgan asked an audience member if her deceased husband connected with the name Shell or Michelle.
[00:04:11.520 --> 00:04:15.120] And the audience member replied, Well, he used to go to a Shell garage.
[00:04:15.920 --> 00:04:16.720] Incredible.
[00:04:16.720 --> 00:04:17.760] Absolutely incredible.
[00:04:17.760 --> 00:04:20.240] Did the name staff or staff mean anything to him?
[00:04:20.240 --> 00:04:22.240] At work, he was a member of staff.
[00:04:22.240 --> 00:04:23.200] Probably not that, mate.
[00:04:23.200 --> 00:04:24.400] Probably not that.
[00:04:24.400 --> 00:04:31.440] We've also regaled you with stories of how Martin Kenny thought the world and its entirety of history was based around a massive cosmic egg.
[00:04:31.440 --> 00:04:35.440] So, in short, we've had some highlights and we've treated you on this show.
[00:04:35.760 --> 00:04:57.200] But while we have told you all these stories, it recently occurred to me that while we focus a lot on the what with a little bit of the why, we haven't really talked a lot about the how we, yeah, and we definitely do the why a lot because we try and we try and make sure that we're not just rubbernecking at the weirdos because that that would be really crass and isn't what we're about.
[00:04:57.200 --> 00:05:00.240] We're about empathy, we're about learning from these experiences.
[00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:07.520] We try and make it entertaining, we might make some jokes about the silly beliefs that people hold, but we try to be compassionate about it and learn something from it.
[00:05:07.520 --> 00:05:12.320] And I think we always do learn something really useful from going and we try to share that side of it.
[00:05:12.320 --> 00:05:18.800] But yeah, we haven't necessarily talked about the logistics of actually going undercover and all of that.
[00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:22.480] So, today I wanted to remind you of why we think it's so worthwhile.
[00:05:22.480 --> 00:05:28.000] And then I thought I'd cover our tips and sort of how-to guide for attending a Woo event undercover.
[00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:37.800] And this was actually inspired by a listener called Brian who got in touch to ask whether it was worth going to a local holistic healing and health expo that he saw recently advertised on a sign in the street.
[00:05:37.800 --> 00:05:46.280] To which my advice was: if it isn't expensive and if it's easy to get to, and if it's easy to get out of, because you need to leave, it's worth popping along.
[00:05:46.280 --> 00:05:48.440] Now, some listeners might wonder: is it worth it?
[00:05:48.440 --> 00:05:49.720] Why is it worth it?
[00:05:49.720 --> 00:05:59.320] It's a valid question because, after all, you're giving up your time, you're giving up some money, and worse than all of both the things, you're giving that money to someone or something that we actively disagree with.
[00:05:59.320 --> 00:06:01.400] And I can see why people would think that's not worth doing.
[00:06:01.880 --> 00:06:07.000] And frankly, for a subset of people, it really isn't worth doing.
[00:06:07.560 --> 00:06:09.400] It's not, it's definitely not worth you.
[00:06:09.960 --> 00:06:15.160] I'm gonna argue otherwise because I personally, as I've mentioned the show before, I think it's really worth it.
[00:06:15.160 --> 00:06:24.520] First of all, if you're listening to this show, you're at least a little bit interested in skepticism, and there is absolutely no substitute for seeing the opposite of skepticism up close.
[00:06:24.520 --> 00:06:32.120] Like, you can read the Wikipedia page on cold reading, or you can watch a room full of strangers crumble at the hands of a skilled cold reader.
[00:06:32.360 --> 00:06:38.200] And one of those experiences is materially richer in terms of what you'll get out of it and to learn from than the other.
[00:06:38.200 --> 00:06:43.160] We've said this on the show before, and I sit here taking the piss of saying, you know, it's a fucking horrendous thing to do.
[00:06:43.320 --> 00:06:47.480] It's a brilliant thing to do, and I love that that's something that we could do and that we can report on.
[00:06:47.480 --> 00:06:50.760] It's just not something that I personally would be comfortable doing at all.
[00:06:51.000 --> 00:07:02.760] But of the few occasions that I have gone into the belly of the beast, as it were, watching a really good cold reader, or even actually a moderately good cold reader on stage, it's fucking impressive to watch.
[00:07:02.760 --> 00:07:05.000] Yeah, you can see why people fall for it.
[00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:13.840] It is an absolute art form watching them stand there and just pick up on these tiny little pieces of information and parry them back at people.
[00:07:13.840 --> 00:07:20.560] And the reaction that they get out, it's absolutely beautiful to watch if it wasn't so fucking ghastly what they were doing.
[00:07:14.840 --> 00:07:20.880] Exactly.
[00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:34.000] And similarly, you can hear skeptical talks about applied kinesiology, or you can see firsthand as people get fooled by someone who is just subtle about the physical forces they apply to their arm in order to sell some worthless trinket or another.
[00:07:34.320 --> 00:07:46.080] And you can read about the impact of inadequate healthcare and how it can drive frustrated patients into the arms of quackery, or you can be in a room where people are entrusting their health to the advice of the entirely unqualified.
[00:07:46.320 --> 00:07:49.200] I think it's an education for a skeptic to be in that room.
[00:07:49.200 --> 00:07:59.360] Not just to see what's being sold and what's soon to be the next thing that we're all going to be worried about and talking about, but also to see how it's being sold and to whom and why they buy it.
[00:07:59.360 --> 00:08:02.720] And all of that makes you a more informed and more effective skeptic.
[00:08:02.720 --> 00:08:10.560] I remember a few weeks ago when we had the McCola tapes was doing the rounds and I posted it to Hacker News.
[00:08:11.440 --> 00:08:16.640] I put the link to Jonathan's article on the McCola tapes up onto Hacker News.
[00:08:16.640 --> 00:08:28.720] And I was reading through some of the comments on there and the comments in there were a few of the comments in there were quite dismissive because Jonathan had gone to some lengths to couch his article in quite positive language.
[00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:29.280] Yes.
[00:08:29.280 --> 00:08:39.600] Including there's a line I think he says where it's not defensible to buy into McCola's stuff once you've learned that he's getting half from ChatGPT and half from a psychic, right?
[00:08:39.920 --> 00:08:44.480] And somebody had commented going, oh, like it was okay before, but now you know it's ChatGPT.
[00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:57.120] And so I stepped in to defend Jonathan and said, it is totally reasonable to write an article like this in a way where you are trying to coax people who are in that world away from that world.
[00:08:57.440 --> 00:09:01.800] You don't have to be derisive and unkind to these people.
[00:09:02.120 --> 00:09:09.800] And one of the things about going to events and seeing these people, it makes it so much harder to just point and laugh at the weirdos and say, well, you deserve it.
[00:09:09.800 --> 00:09:11.560] Fucking Darwin Awards, everything you get.
[00:09:11.560 --> 00:09:11.800] Exactly.
[00:09:11.960 --> 00:09:27.160] When you see real people who are genuinely there in tears, suffering, struggling with whatever is going on in their lives, and watching them being taken in by the bullshit that they're being sold, but for their real genuine problems that they're actually struggling with.
[00:09:27.160 --> 00:09:33.240] And it's easy to sit at home behind your keyboard to go, wanker, when you're not looking at these people in the face.
[00:09:33.240 --> 00:09:37.080] Yeah, it's so much harder to say that to their face or their shoes in my case.
[00:09:37.720 --> 00:09:40.600] But I mean, all that said, there are bad reasons to go.
[00:09:40.600 --> 00:09:49.720] You shouldn't go if your intention is to persuade people that they're wrong or to shout at the people selling things or to be disruptive or aggressive or condescending or any mix of those things.
[00:09:49.720 --> 00:10:00.600] And that's what I mean when I say I think there's for some subset of people, it's not useful to go because you're not going to get anywhere and you're not going to learn anything from it because you're not going with that right mindset.
[00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:01.160] Yeah, exactly.
[00:10:01.160 --> 00:10:10.760] And partly going with that kind of mindset reflects very badly on sceptics, which only makes the attendees more likely to distrust us and trust the people you're shouting at.
[00:10:10.760 --> 00:10:11.000] Yeah.
[00:10:11.000 --> 00:10:16.680] Because you're the nasty person who seemed like they were so aggressive and the poor person you're shouting at is the good guy.
[00:10:16.680 --> 00:10:17.800] We've become the bad guys.
[00:10:17.800 --> 00:10:19.800] They become the underdogs and the put upon.
[00:10:19.800 --> 00:10:21.480] And it really backfire for that.
[00:10:21.480 --> 00:10:37.240] One of the most consistent things we've learned by attending these sorts of things is that a great deal of people who believe in these unusual things get there because they're looking for community, they're looking for support, they're looking for people who are on their side.
[00:10:37.240 --> 00:10:42.120] And going in and being the antagonist is making us be on the other side.
[00:10:42.120 --> 00:10:43.720] Yeah, you'll keep them away from our side.
[00:10:43.720 --> 00:10:50.800] But also, if your goal there is to understand as much as possible and to see Wu in the wild, you're going to break that spell when you disrupt things.
[00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:56.400] And in doing so, you also completely shatter your learning experience, which is one of the things that running the reason to go there.
[00:10:56.400 --> 00:11:06.160] And chances are, you already know how those conversations go when you're being antagonistic because you know when there's a disagreement or antagonism, because we've all already experienced that.
[00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:11.120] So, for me, the purpose of attending is as a learning exercise, not a teaching exercise, I'd say.
[00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:17.600] So, let's say you do agree with me and disagree with Mike, and you decide to attend whatever event you happen to spot.
[00:11:17.600 --> 00:11:20.080] Well, what should you have in mind in doing so?
[00:11:20.400 --> 00:11:28.240] One thing that came to mind before you go, it's worth thinking about what to wear, or rather, it's worth making sure you don't overthink what to wear.
[00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:32.080] Your goal is to go there and be incognito and unobtrusive.
[00:11:32.080 --> 00:11:33.440] That's another reason I can't go.
[00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:35.520] I stand out, I fucking saw Thomas wearing it.
[00:11:35.680 --> 00:11:36.880] 100%, 100%.
[00:11:36.880 --> 00:11:46.320] Yeah, so like, don't try so hard to blend in that you end up wearing something that makes you seem uncomfortable in it, because then you'll stand out as a person who seems uncomfortable.
[00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:53.440] Just wear your regular clothes, but maybe skip the t-shirts with slogans that ridicule religion or ridicule woos or promote sides.
[00:11:53.440 --> 00:11:55.520] Just wear something fairly neutral that way.
[00:11:55.520 --> 00:12:00.240] If you feel comfortable, you'll act more comfortable, and no one will pay attention to you because they're just going about their lives.
[00:12:00.240 --> 00:12:05.920] That said, if your regular wear is a full suit and a full-length under jacket, maybe skip it.
[00:12:05.920 --> 00:12:07.760] This kind of gig isn't for you.
[00:12:07.760 --> 00:12:12.640] I would, however, suggest that you wear something with pockets and also make sure you carry a bag of some degree.
[00:12:13.200 --> 00:12:21.280] So, this is the only extent to which I think about what I wear, because I don't wear anything that would give me away as a skeptic or even a nerd most of the time.
[00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:27.520] That's not my fashion sense, I tend to not think too much about what I'm wearing other than making sure.
[00:12:27.520 --> 00:12:38.120] Obviously, a lot of women's clothes, I don't have pockets today, a lot of women's clothes don't have pockets, so I do try and make sure that I'm wearing something that has a pocket or a jacket that has a pocket and a bag, as you say.
[00:12:38.120 --> 00:12:50.120] Yeah, like the pockets will allow you to keep your phone close enough to hand for anything you might need it for, and the bag will come in very, very handy when it comes to flyers and leaflets and free samples and anything else you're allowed to take without handing over more cash.
[00:12:50.120 --> 00:12:52.600] And my advice is take all of that.
[00:12:52.600 --> 00:12:57.320] Always visit all of the stands that you can, casually pick up any leaflets or flies they've got lying around.
[00:12:57.320 --> 00:13:00.920] Those flyers are treasure troves of material as part of your educational experience.
[00:13:00.920 --> 00:13:05.640] They'll help you fill in the blanks that you have from any conversations that you have while you're there.
[00:13:05.640 --> 00:13:07.720] Free samples are great for the same reason.
[00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:09.560] They're excellent collector's items.
[00:13:09.560 --> 00:13:13.640] That said, do be careful what you do with them when you get home.
[00:13:13.640 --> 00:13:20.120] One, I think, an Ayurvedic face wash or face cleanser that I took from maybe the Get Well Shaw or a previous show.
[00:13:20.520 --> 00:13:21.400] Was it in a purple tube?
[00:13:21.400 --> 00:13:21.800] It's a purple shoe.
[00:13:21.880 --> 00:13:23.960] I've got some next to my desk right at this moment.
[00:13:24.280 --> 00:13:28.440] Yeah, well, the one in our house accidentally made it from my office into the bathroom somehow.
[00:13:28.440 --> 00:13:31.560] And the next thing I saw, it was Nicola using it in the shower.
[00:13:32.200 --> 00:13:34.360] Which was fine because it turned out it was fine.
[00:13:34.360 --> 00:13:39.160] But it's definitely worth keeping a hard wall between the WooSwag and the everyday toiletries just in case.
[00:13:39.160 --> 00:13:43.560] Yeah, because we do know that sometimes there's not a great deal of regulation on these sorts of things.
[00:13:43.560 --> 00:13:48.760] We don't always know what's in them, despite the fact that you will drink any sample that you are ever given at a get well.
[00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:49.640] She will come back to that.
[00:13:49.640 --> 00:13:57.480] So I mentioned having your phone to hand, and that's because these days nobody bats an eye at casual photos being taken of what's going on, especially during talks and seminars.
[00:13:57.480 --> 00:13:59.720] So like look around, see what other people are doing.
[00:13:59.720 --> 00:14:06.360] If there's an odd picture being taken by people here and there, feel free to take that as a cue to gently document things that seem of interest.
[00:14:06.360 --> 00:14:10.000] And that's the interesting thing I was thinking before when we were talking about pockets.
[00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:10.840] Like we used to take.
[00:14:10.840 --> 00:14:15.680] I used to have a dictaphone that you used to take, and you used to have like a little spy cam that you used to use and stuff.
[00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:30.240] And we don't need any of that stuff anymore because like phones, my recorder on my phone is amazing and it's got like a transcriber built into it and picks up things better than any dictaphone I've ever owned.
[00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:38.240] But it's also really easy to just casually have and casually take photos of things going on because me especially always have my phone in my hand.
[00:14:38.320 --> 00:14:40.320] It's not unusual at all.
[00:14:40.640 --> 00:14:50.960] Also, personally, I advise I always set my phone or my tablet to do an audio recording from before I set foot in that building and then I let it run all the way until I leave the building fully.
[00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:52.800] There's some legal stuff to be aware of here.
[00:14:52.800 --> 00:14:54.960] It might differ depending on where you live.
[00:14:54.960 --> 00:14:56.800] So I'm going to be talking about the UK system.
[00:14:56.800 --> 00:15:02.960] But generally speaking, from what I understand in a lot of jurisdictions, including internationally, check this in your own area.
[00:15:02.960 --> 00:15:09.920] If you're intent to record something only for your own records, not for broadcast, not for sharing, that's often fine.
[00:15:09.920 --> 00:15:10.160] Yeah.
[00:15:10.160 --> 00:15:10.480] I can't believe that.
[00:15:10.640 --> 00:15:13.680] Especially if you're in a public event.
[00:15:13.680 --> 00:15:15.920] You're not in a private conversation somewhere.
[00:15:15.920 --> 00:15:32.880] Yeah, we rarely, if ever, play our recordings in public, but we do record all the meetings we attend in order to help us remember things clearly because that can be really useful in case anything comes up during the conversations that inspires follow-up and then you've got what was actually said for then writing that down and transcribing it so you can use what they say.
[00:15:32.880 --> 00:15:38.400] But when it comes to undercover recording, the legal line is often around invasion of privacy and the assumption of privacy.
[00:15:38.400 --> 00:15:42.880] So the more invasive the recording, the stronger the justification for an invasion of privacy must be.
[00:15:42.880 --> 00:15:47.840] But when you're at a public event, even one that's ticketed, people can't assume to be in private.
[00:15:47.840 --> 00:16:00.000] So, the barrier for what constitutes an invasion of privacy is much lower, especially if they're there for work reasons, because they're giving a talk or they're representing their company on a stall or a booth, they're selling their wares, all these things.
[00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:08.040] They're not there in a private capacity, they're in a public capacity, and therefore, recording them in that situation is a much lower invasion of privacy.
[00:16:08.040 --> 00:16:16.120] If you're speaking at an event, you have no reasonable assumption of privacy because you're speaking at a public event, you've agreed to do that.
[00:16:16.120 --> 00:16:20.760] Then, in terms of prep, I think, again, the key: don't overprepare, don't overthink things.
[00:16:20.760 --> 00:16:26.040] It is worth having to hand maybe an answer as to why you're there in case somebody just gets into a friendly chat with you.
[00:16:26.040 --> 00:16:30.600] Because the kind of thing that comes up is someone might conversationally ask you, you know, what brought you along today?
[00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:31.320] How come you come along?
[00:16:31.320 --> 00:16:31.800] People just ask you to.
[00:16:32.120 --> 00:16:33.880] It's a go-to question, isn't it?
[00:16:33.880 --> 00:16:37.640] It's that, like, especially I find this when I'm at Mercia Skeptics events.
[00:16:37.640 --> 00:16:40.680] I have like my set, how to chat to people I've not met before.
[00:16:40.680 --> 00:16:41.480] Like, how did you find us?
[00:16:41.560 --> 00:16:42.520] How did you hear about us?
[00:16:42.520 --> 00:16:43.800] Yeah, those sorts of things.
[00:16:43.800 --> 00:16:49.240] And at those sorts of events, the people, you know, running tables or running the event have done exactly the same thing.
[00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:53.160] They've will have prepped themselves with, oh, you know, what got you interested in this sort of thing.
[00:16:53.240 --> 00:16:56.760] And other attendees will want to make small talk at some point, and that's an easy way to do it.
[00:16:56.760 --> 00:17:06.920] So, my answer to that tends to be something along the lines of, you know, I've always been interested in learning more, but I've not had the chance to see as much as I'd want to, which isn't untrue because I'd like to see quite a lot.
[00:17:07.560 --> 00:17:14.520] But the good thing about that is it puts you there for the right reasons, but also establishes that there's no expectation that you're an expert on anything.
[00:17:14.520 --> 00:17:18.920] And if anything, it also gives you cover for if you seem awkward about how any of it works.
[00:17:18.920 --> 00:17:23.640] And if anything, it's actually an invitation for them to tell you more, which is great because that's exactly what you want.
[00:17:23.640 --> 00:17:26.920] So I'm interested in learning more, haven't had a chance to learn as much as I'd want to.
[00:17:26.920 --> 00:17:30.680] Great, they'll tell you more, they'll give you all that kind of information.
[00:17:30.680 --> 00:17:36.680] Also, that's something you can reflect back on them in those kind of questions, like when you meet with them, those kind of questions.
[00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:37.800] Oh, yeah, how about you?
[00:17:37.800 --> 00:17:39.320] How often, how did you hear about this?
[00:17:39.320 --> 00:17:40.600] Do you come to these kind of things often?
[00:17:40.600 --> 00:17:41.400] What brings you along?
[00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:42.760] What got you interested in this?
[00:17:42.760 --> 00:17:46.640] Open-friendly questions, invite them to tell you more about what they're thinking.
[00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:50.800] Another little bit of prep that can be worth doing, depending on the event, is to have a little bit of a backstory.
[00:17:44.840 --> 00:17:52.320] Again, the key is don't overthink things.
[00:17:52.400 --> 00:18:02.640] But if you're going to an alternative health event, you don't want to be like memorizing complex medical records that you read online and then trying to like regurgitate that accurately in the moment.
[00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:03.600] You're not going to be able to do that.
[00:18:03.600 --> 00:18:05.280] You're not going to be able to exactly.
[00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:06.480] You'll just freeze, yeah.
[00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:17.440] Yeah, or you'll get details wrong, you'll forget some details, and it'll be clear that you're making this up, that you don't know what you're talking about, that you're that you're not very well acquainted with the symptoms that you're talking about.
[00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:21.120] Overprepared in that situation can also make you seem like you're coming in with an agenda.
[00:18:21.120 --> 00:18:29.680] There'll be lots of people who do have that level of specificity because it'll be honest, but unless you have it honestly, skip the creative writing exercise.
[00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:44.800] Yeah, and that's what we've done before: is we've gone to things with when we did that psychic reading in Blackpool, and it's well, Alice is going to go in with the story of a medical health history because a real medical health problems.
[00:18:44.800 --> 00:18:48.880] I can go in on that truthfully and see where things go.
[00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:56.640] Yeah, whereas with Laurie, we didn't give him a strong backstory, but we did say, imagine you have gambling debts and you want to know, will you earn somebody coming off?
[00:18:56.640 --> 00:18:59.680] And just stay at that level, but don't go, don't overcomplicate it.
[00:18:59.680 --> 00:19:03.440] I think Emma gave them so little that they said she was dead inside.
[00:19:03.440 --> 00:19:04.400] That was a different reading.
[00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:11.920] The one in Blackpool, Emma's instruction was don't answer any questions, just always say, Sorry, do you want me to say yes or no?
[00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:14.240] Or say, I don't understand.
[00:19:14.320 --> 00:19:16.800] Could you clarify what you're saying?
[00:19:16.800 --> 00:19:17.120] Right.
[00:19:17.120 --> 00:19:17.520] Yeah.
[00:19:17.840 --> 00:19:19.120] And that shut the whole thing down.
[00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:20.040] I don't currently awkward.
[00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:24.640] Well, and as it happened, we had that was already overprepared.
[00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:27.680] All of that was overprepared because that particular case.
[00:19:27.680 --> 00:19:31.000] And we should mention it on the show again because we haven't mentioned it for so long.
[00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:40.360] The video from that is on YouTube, and it was an excellent piece of work because you'd seen the psychic palm reader and felt like it sounded really formulaic.
[00:19:40.360 --> 00:19:42.440] So you were like, let's do this investigation.
[00:19:42.840 --> 00:19:48.120] We'll go in and we'll see this psychic palm reader and we'll have four different stories and backstories.
[00:19:48.120 --> 00:19:49.880] And we'd prepared all of these backstories.
[00:19:49.880 --> 00:19:55.720] And it was just verbatim, the whole thing was just a script for her and her daughter.
[00:19:57.640 --> 00:19:58.280] Yeah, exactly.
[00:19:58.520 --> 00:20:03.400] And it's the video that was cut together and put on YouTube is an amazing example of that.
[00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:06.920] I think it's a good thinking investigates palm reading, I think is the name of the video.
[00:20:06.920 --> 00:20:08.920] If you check that out, as a three-part series on it.
[00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:11.400] But all the prep there was largely a waste of time, right?
[00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:12.120] Because you couldn't have gone in the middle of the year.
[00:20:12.440 --> 00:20:14.440] We couldn't say anything because it was just script.
[00:20:14.600 --> 00:20:16.840] Yeah, you'd have got the same script out of them.
[00:20:16.840 --> 00:20:18.840] But you never know when your prep is a waste of time.
[00:20:19.160 --> 00:20:20.440] So it's worth doing a little bit of it.
[00:20:20.520 --> 00:20:20.760] Of course, yeah.
[00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:22.840] I've over prepped in the past and made a big mistake.
[00:20:22.840 --> 00:20:23.800] I've gone too specific.
[00:20:24.040 --> 00:20:34.280] When I was going around health food shops, asking specifically, there'd been a story in the papers about health food shops being willing to sell products for infant diarrhea, which can be quite serious if it goes on for too long.
[00:20:34.280 --> 00:20:38.680] And when I started working for Good Thinking, I went to a few different health food shops and asked about infant diarrhea.
[00:20:38.840 --> 00:20:44.040] I've got a baby and they've been had, and the problem is they asked the question, how long have they had this for?
[00:20:44.040 --> 00:20:45.160] And I don't have a kid.
[00:20:45.400 --> 00:20:47.080] I have no idea what's normal.
[00:20:47.080 --> 00:20:56.440] And what I said was clearly not normal and it blew the entire thing because I was talking with specificity about something beyond my expertise or my acquaintance.
[00:20:56.440 --> 00:20:57.960] So don't do that.
[00:20:57.960 --> 00:20:59.720] I've had this for 46 years now.
[00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:03.000] You're six months old.
[00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:09.320] So, I do suggest if you're going to go in with a backstory that includes an illness, I'd suggest either using an illness you actually have.
[00:21:09.320 --> 00:21:10.600] I often use chronic allergies.
[00:21:10.600 --> 00:21:12.040] I have quite a lot of allergies and things.
[00:21:12.040 --> 00:21:13.720] You have a lot of illnesses you can draw.
[00:21:13.880 --> 00:21:16.080] I can pick from any one of a number.
[00:21:14.840 --> 00:21:18.160] Or you could use an illness that you know well.
[00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:24.000] So, perhaps talk about something you know a close family member has had, so you will have an experience of the symptoms.
[00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:30.960] And if you're not talking about it as something you've got, but something someone in your life has got, then any gaps that you have in that information will be explicable.
[00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:42.560] And if you feel like you might feel really awkward talking about it from your own perspective, you could use, oh, my partner's got and then any question you can't answer is, oh, I don't know, she never seems to mention it that way, or whatever, yeah.
[00:21:42.560 --> 00:21:56.000] Yeah, or and if you're going to use it, if you don't have that in your life, or if you want to use an illness you don't know particularly well, you cite someone just far enough, ascribe this to someone just far enough away that you'd be interested and care, but wouldn't be expected to know the details.
[00:21:56.000 --> 00:22:00.160] I've been to alternative health events where I've talked about a friend's mum having breast cancer.
[00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:03.600] It's plausible, as a good friend, that that would be on my mind.
[00:22:03.600 --> 00:22:08.480] And people do offer and seek unsolicited advice in those situations, so it's not a suspicious story to have.
[00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:13.600] But if pressed in the details, I'm not going to know the specifics of that, I'm just going to know the very broad strokes.
[00:22:13.600 --> 00:22:15.760] That's about all the preparation I think you'd need.
[00:22:15.760 --> 00:22:17.200] So, then it's a case of just heading in.
[00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:26.240] Well, no, there is one more thing that we that you've thought about before and that does come up come up occasionally, particularly if it comes to alternative medicine stuff.
[00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:33.680] Is if you're a single bloke going on your own, you might stand out a little bit more, depending on the type of event you're going to.
[00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:38.240] Maybe more mind-body-spirit festivals are often female-dominated-dominated.
[00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:41.040] Scientific events specifically, you'd stand out a little bit.
[00:22:41.040 --> 00:22:43.440] Mind-body-spirit events are somewhere in the middle, I'd say.
[00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:52.560] I think mostly you can pass it off, and it's totally fine because single men do go to those sorts of events, just like women do go to some of the more male-dominated events occasionally.
[00:22:52.560 --> 00:22:57.840] But if you feel like you might feel a bit more awkward, you might want to think about the kind of people who'll be there and take a friend.
[00:22:58.240 --> 00:23:00.920] Yeah, that's that's certainly good advice for a psychic show in particular.
[00:23:00.920 --> 00:23:04.200] I think maybe Mind, Body, Spirit, I think these days, post-COVID, I think you may.
[00:22:59.920 --> 00:23:06.120] Yeah, the climate's changed quite a bit.
[00:23:06.280 --> 00:23:08.680] But the other thing to think about is age.
[00:23:08.680 --> 00:23:11.640] Like, we've been the youngest people in the room by a halfway before.
[00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:15.240] Absolutely, do not age yourself up.
[00:23:15.560 --> 00:23:18.040] Do not apply age up makeup.
[00:23:18.200 --> 00:23:19.880] That's about all the preparation you might need.
[00:23:19.880 --> 00:23:21.000] Then it's a case of heading in.
[00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:22.600] What do you do once you get there?
[00:23:22.600 --> 00:23:24.760] Well, that'll depend on the type of event that it is.
[00:23:24.760 --> 00:23:29.240] It might be a conference type event where it's just a case of sitting and listening to a series of speakers.
[00:23:29.240 --> 00:23:34.280] Personally, in those situations, I consider myself a spectator, especially in the QA.
[00:23:34.280 --> 00:23:40.920] That is definitely not your moment to ask the speaker your super insightful question and put them on the spot because that's just going to blow the whole thing as well.
[00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:45.880] There might be times when there's audience participation in those kinds of things, which is awkward at the best of time.
[00:23:45.880 --> 00:23:52.200] I tend to take a cue from those around me and try to be marginally less enthusiastic than the general vibe.
[00:23:52.520 --> 00:23:56.760] So you're not the keenest and the most eager person there who's going to stand out.
[00:23:56.760 --> 00:24:00.680] But also, you're not so reluctant that you become obstructive or noticeable.
[00:24:00.920 --> 00:24:06.360] So you can get under the radar by sort of gauging the flavor of the room and being just slightly like lower temperature.
[00:24:06.520 --> 00:24:10.120] I mean, frankly, that's just good advice for anything that requires participation.
[00:24:10.120 --> 00:24:18.520] When you have to go to like a working group for work, when you have to like do fucking focus groups or whatever, like anything that requires you to participate.
[00:24:18.520 --> 00:24:20.440] Don't be the most high-energy person in the room.
[00:24:20.440 --> 00:24:22.760] Don't be the most low-energy person in the room.
[00:24:22.760 --> 00:24:27.400] If it is just a conference style event, your interaction with the other attendees will be quite limited.
[00:24:27.400 --> 00:24:28.680] It'll be mostly during the breaks.
[00:24:28.680 --> 00:24:32.760] So try and take those opportunities where you can to spark up a conversation with a stranger.
[00:24:32.760 --> 00:24:35.160] Another reason that Mike doesn't go.
[00:24:35.160 --> 00:24:39.960] People will often be quite keen to talk, especially if they're kind of there by themselves or something.
[00:24:39.960 --> 00:24:45.840] You say this, but you're quite awkward about interacting with strangers at these sorts of events.
[00:24:44.920 --> 00:24:50.320] I know, and it's something I try and get over at times, but there's times I get probably awkward about it.
[00:24:50.560 --> 00:24:52.800] And it's easier to do if you're there on your own.
[00:24:53.040 --> 00:25:03.360] I think it's harder to do if you're there with a friend because you just end up talking to each other and feeling, and also feeling like your friend's judging you for how you go about it, which can sometimes be a bit off-putting.
[00:25:03.360 --> 00:25:08.480] Whereas if you're on your own, you just sit there looking lonely and but looking outwards rather than staring at your phone.
[00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:11.520] And people come to you because they want to chat and tell you their stories.
[00:25:11.520 --> 00:25:14.640] And not often they want to do that because lots of people do attend on their own.
[00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:21.120] And they do that because they're the only person they know who really believes in whatever conspiracy theory or esoteric idea is the theme of the day.
[00:25:21.120 --> 00:25:24.800] In those situations, like a good opener is something like, oh, that was quite interesting.
[00:25:24.800 --> 00:25:25.840] What did you make of it?
[00:25:25.840 --> 00:25:27.600] Or have you seen this speaker speak before?
[00:25:27.680 --> 00:25:29.440] Have you seen this kind of stuff before?
[00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:34.640] And after that, just keep following up with like gently following up with opening questions, very open questions, rather.
[00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:36.480] And that'll invite them to tell you more.
[00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:48.880] And I typically try and occupy a position where I'm interested but don't know a huge amount about it specifically, but I'm keen to learn more because usually people are pretty keen then to inform you and sort of fill that gap.
[00:25:49.040 --> 00:25:50.240] It's active listening, right?
[00:25:50.240 --> 00:25:51.600] Yeah, exactly.
[00:25:51.920 --> 00:25:55.680] Then what about the events that aren't just speakers, but where there are stalls and booths and things?
[00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:58.800] Well, these are great because they're little sample pots of nonsense.
[00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:00.400] It's woo tapas.
[00:26:01.040 --> 00:26:03.360] A little bit of everything kind of going all in one place.
[00:26:03.360 --> 00:26:07.440] This is where your bag will come in handy because you'll pick up everything that's free to take.
[00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:11.840] I try to always kind of approach a booth with quite a friendly, curious expression.
[00:26:11.840 --> 00:26:15.040] Try to approach quite quietly, quite a quiet, understated demeanor.
[00:26:15.040 --> 00:26:17.560] Like, I'm just trying to understand what the booth is.
[00:26:17.560 --> 00:26:18.800] Just kind of interested in checking it out.
[00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:22.400] It's the opposite of what you do at your own trade conference booths.
[00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:24.880] It's where you're just like, I don't want you to talk to me.
[00:26:24.880 --> 00:26:27.360] I just want to see what free merch I can grab.
[00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:30.520] But you're sort of like, you're kind of, you're not forcing yourself on them.
[00:26:30.520 --> 00:26:32.280] You're just kind of walking about that kind of way.
[00:26:32.280 --> 00:26:34.360] Try and check out what sort of thing there is, what they're claiming.
[00:26:29.920 --> 00:26:36.280] Have a skim of the leaflet if you've got the leaflet in your hand.
[00:26:36.760 --> 00:26:47.880] If they try to interrupt you or engage you, you can say that you're curious to find out what it's about, and they'll be desperate to tell you, not least because they believe in this stuff, but also they've paid for that booth and they want to make it worthwhile.
[00:26:47.880 --> 00:26:51.000] So they want to get their money's worth of the table they've got.
[00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:52.760] You're going to get their sales pattern.
[00:26:52.760 --> 00:26:57.240] Bear in mind, this is the sales pattern that persuades the people who believe in them.
[00:26:57.240 --> 00:26:59.720] This is your doorway into that world.
[00:26:59.960 --> 00:27:01.960] You can get a sense of how effective it feels for you.
[00:27:01.960 --> 00:27:02.920] How persuasive is that?
[00:27:02.920 --> 00:27:04.360] What rhetoric are they using?
[00:27:04.360 --> 00:27:06.200] You can listen as that's going.
[00:27:06.200 --> 00:27:08.840] Very much fine to ask follow-up questions at this point.
[00:27:08.840 --> 00:27:17.960] I try to keep them to at the level of what might be the obvious thing to occur to me here, or what might a common sense question be in this moment.
[00:27:17.960 --> 00:27:21.480] I try to avoid questions like, how do you sleep at night?
[00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:29.400] I also try to avoid questions that show that I might know too much, only because I want to keep the conversation flowing.
[00:27:29.400 --> 00:27:31.640] But there are ways of asking things indirectly.
[00:27:31.640 --> 00:27:32.760] You know, how does this work?
[00:27:32.760 --> 00:27:33.560] Oh, that's interesting.
[00:27:33.880 --> 00:27:34.840] Is there evidence for that?
[00:27:34.840 --> 00:27:35.720] Is that proven?
[00:27:35.720 --> 00:27:37.080] How do we know that it's proven?
[00:27:37.080 --> 00:27:38.520] How do they figure that out?
[00:27:38.520 --> 00:27:39.480] See what they say about that.
[00:27:39.480 --> 00:27:42.760] If it's a health thing, you can ask, why don't more people know about this?
[00:27:42.760 --> 00:27:44.360] Why don't doctors use this?
[00:27:44.360 --> 00:27:47.880] Those are the kind of questions, the gentle probing questions that can get you quite far.
[00:27:47.880 --> 00:27:52.280] Try not to get into an argument, not least because it's going to blow your cover before you go to the next table.
[00:27:52.280 --> 00:27:55.160] The next table is going to hear that and it's going to single you out.
[00:27:55.800 --> 00:27:56.920] It is a sales pitch.
[00:27:56.920 --> 00:27:59.160] They might try and press a sale on you at this point.
[00:27:59.160 --> 00:27:59.800] Don't worry about it.
[00:27:59.800 --> 00:28:03.880] You can always hit the ejector seat by saying something like, oh, this is really interesting.
[00:28:03.880 --> 00:28:04.520] Thanks so much.
[00:28:04.520 --> 00:28:07.160] I've got so much more to see, but I might come back later.
[00:28:07.160 --> 00:28:07.720] It's all right.
[00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:09.320] You don't have to come back later.
[00:28:09.320 --> 00:28:11.560] No, they all know that that means I'm not interested.
[00:28:11.560 --> 00:28:12.520] I'm going away now.
[00:28:12.520 --> 00:28:12.840] Yeah, exactly.
[00:28:13.320 --> 00:28:15.000] That is the escape button.
[00:28:15.600 --> 00:28:25.040] It can be useful to have an email address that you don't mind giving to people like that at that point because sometimes they'll sign you up for newsletters and things, which can be useful to get more information.
[00:28:25.040 --> 00:28:26.800] Yeah, if you happen to have one.
[00:28:26.800 --> 00:28:38.800] There are some health claims to look out for, and if the opportunity arises naturally to pull into the conversation, the easiest ones are basic things, allergies, you know, annoying everyday things that are controllable for lots of people with a simple and fairly cheap medicine.
[00:28:38.800 --> 00:28:40.160] Look for those types of things.
[00:28:40.160 --> 00:28:44.560] So, if someone's pushing something as an alternative, that's a good sign that something rum is going on.
[00:28:44.560 --> 00:28:48.160] Why are you pushing an alternative to this thing that's actually really cheap and effective?
[00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:51.280] Above that, there are the kind of conditions that ought to be an immediate red flag.
[00:28:51.280 --> 00:28:55.760] Cancer, obviously, especially in the UK, where it's against the law to advertise cancer cures.
[00:28:55.760 --> 00:29:00.160] If people are nudging and suggesting that something works for cancer, open that door for them.
[00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:03.920] If it feels like that's where they're going, let them go there, give them the space to do that.
[00:29:04.160 --> 00:29:07.680] If they claim to be able to cure cancer, ask, why don't people talk about this more openly?
[00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:09.280] Why don't doctors talk about this?
[00:29:09.280 --> 00:29:10.560] Why don't they advertise this?
[00:29:10.560 --> 00:29:13.440] Let's give them this chance to talk about these things.
[00:29:13.760 --> 00:29:22.400] But generally, I try not to introduce serious ailments unless there's a sign from them that those are claims that they want to make, but feel like they can't for whatever reason.
[00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:29.520] I once saw an Ayurvedic practitioner who claimed their smoothies, I think it was, or some sort of juice drink, would fight diabetes.
[00:29:29.520 --> 00:29:39.040] And that was an opening because I asked, Does it work to prevent diabetes, which can be possible with like lifestyle interventions and stuff, or to cure diabetes?
[00:29:39.040 --> 00:29:41.040] And they said it does both those things.
[00:29:41.360 --> 00:29:42.960] Okay, so it cures diabetes.
[00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:52.720] I know there's two different types of diabetes: there's type two diabetes, which is like acquired diabetes, it comes on during your life, it can be a product of diet and lifestyle and things like that.
[00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:56.800] And then there's type one diabetes, which is a lifelong condition that can't be cured.
[00:29:56.800 --> 00:31:37.120] You've got it for life because your body just does not make insulin yeah so I asked which type of diabetes does it cure and they told me both I actually think they even said three types of diabetes I think they invented a third type of diabetes and I think it also cured that so be tugging at some of the threads that you spot just by doing that I identified that they were claiming a cure and then had them admit that they were trying to cure the incurable at these booths there may be the opportunity to take a free sample of something or to have a free session a free taster session of a therapy or a free go on a machine always accept the free sample though if that free sample is a food or drink that you have to have right there on the spot take a bit of caution and try to assess whether you reckon it to be fine like if it if they say oh this is a kind of chocolate that instead of using this particular bean we put a different ingredient in which makes it super healthy for whatever reason you're probably fine you're probably fine it might taste unpleasant but that's a bonus if anything because the unpleasant tating thing that's part of the experience that you want to get it's probably not going to be harmful we've eaten things like that at the at these of these events you you're screwing your face about this we definitely have i don't recall ever eating anything i think there was a chocolate thing at the get well conference that we went to and there's also someone giving out like a type of coffee like a weird bullshit i think slightly green coffee but it was like coffee made something weird i don't know we we had one anyway but i've also been handed shock glasses of mysterious green liquid from ayurvedic souls at the point when i was very aware that ayurvedic tinctures are tainted with things like heavy metals, and i've had to force myself to learn the lesson to not just drink whatever a kind-eyed and insistent stranger at a booth hands me.
[00:31:37.120 --> 00:31:39.680] Take that lesson from me and politely decline.
[00:31:39.680 --> 00:31:45.920] I mean, last time it twisted your knee all round, it took you eight hours to get that leave that all sorted out, isn't it?
[00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:50.800] On the other hand, taster sessions of therapies and goes on machines, totally different matter.
[00:31:51.120 --> 00:31:52.320] No, they're not.
[00:31:52.320 --> 00:32:01.440] It depends on the therapy and it depends on the individual because there are certain therapies that I would be very wary of, given I know that people can dislocate my joints.
[00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:02.560] Okay, yes, that is very true.
[00:32:02.560 --> 00:32:03.040] That is true.
[00:32:03.040 --> 00:32:08.320] There's like manual, it does manual, yeah, manual therapies like chiropractic I would not have done.
[00:32:08.320 --> 00:32:11.520] But like, if it's other stuff, think of the stories that you're telling.
[00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:14.000] Probably fine, they're not actually going to touch you.
[00:32:14.240 --> 00:32:14.960] Yeah, exactly.
[00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:26.880] Like, you want to be able to tell people about the time that you listened to digitized DNA, or that you had to wear a pyramid hat to channel your energies, or you were giving a 10-minute computer scan to tell you which of 12,000 foodstuffs you're intolerant of and to what degree.
[00:32:26.880 --> 00:32:29.360] Those are the stories that you want to come away with.
[00:32:29.360 --> 00:32:31.600] Lots of these events will be a mix of talks and booths.
[00:32:31.600 --> 00:32:32.720] They're great fun.
[00:32:33.040 --> 00:32:40.000] They allow you to plan your day, get a brochure as early as you can, check out which talks and demonstrations are on at what times, what stands out to you.
[00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:48.880] Be sure to cast a wide net because talk titles can be misleading, and you don't want to miss out on something incredibly weird just because the speaker didn't know how to market themselves.
[00:32:49.120 --> 00:32:51.920] Lots of these people may not know how to market themselves.
[00:32:51.920 --> 00:32:55.840] And typically, you're not forced to sit through an entire talk if you're not interested in it.
[00:32:55.840 --> 00:33:02.240] So, try and find a seat towards the back of the room, relatively near an exit in case it doesn't grab you as weird enough and you want to skip out.
[00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:09.280] But be sure to be close enough that if you do need to grab any photos of anything shocking that happens or interesting that happens, you can still do that.
[00:33:09.280 --> 00:33:13.360] And then, finally, give yourself space to decompress afterwards.
[00:33:13.360 --> 00:33:16.560] It can be really energy-intensive to attend an event like this.
[00:33:16.560 --> 00:33:31.800] And if it goes well, by which I mean if you stumble into something like bonkers or shocking or dangerous, that can leave you a little wired, a little drained, especially if you've got to keep up, you've had to keep up this friendly, open, non-judgmental demeanor throughout the entire thing.
[00:33:29.840 --> 00:33:36.680] And then also bear in mind that you're going to want to let all that out once you get away from the venue.
[00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:39.320] Make sure you're far enough away from the venue.
[00:33:39.320 --> 00:33:44.280] Make sure there's enough distance between you and the event and its audience before you drop the poker face.
[00:33:44.280 --> 00:33:53.560] Because it can be really awkward if you step out of the venue and immediately like rip into your experience of it all, only to realize some of the audience happen to have walked out at the same time as you.
[00:33:53.560 --> 00:33:57.000] And that can just be really awkward, especially if you're planning to go back the next day.
[00:33:57.000 --> 00:33:58.200] That can be incredibly awkward.
[00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:01.480] So try and stay in until you know the course is clear.
[00:34:01.800 --> 00:34:06.600] And then once you've been, you've had this weird experience, the obvious question is, then what?
[00:34:06.600 --> 00:34:07.720] What do you do with that?
[00:34:07.720 --> 00:34:09.160] Well, for me, there's a few things you can do.
[00:34:09.160 --> 00:34:13.320] The first is sit with it and think about it and reflect on your experience and what you've learned.
[00:34:13.320 --> 00:34:15.960] Does it change how you think about these things?
[00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:18.040] How you talk to people about these things in future?
[00:34:18.040 --> 00:34:19.640] How you process them?
[00:34:19.640 --> 00:34:24.440] Obviously, you're going to share the most fun or the shocking kind of or silly or dangerous stories with your friends.
[00:34:24.440 --> 00:34:26.120] And you definitely, definitely should do that.
[00:34:26.120 --> 00:34:27.800] That is the spoils of war.
[00:34:27.800 --> 00:34:28.040] Yes.
[00:34:28.040 --> 00:34:30.520] You know, that is the reward for the effort.
[00:34:30.520 --> 00:34:37.000] Also, take a big look, take a good look rather at that big bag of flyers and leaflets and think about what you were told.
[00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:38.680] How much of that was harmful?
[00:34:38.680 --> 00:34:39.800] What was most concerning?
[00:34:39.800 --> 00:34:44.520] Is there anything in the leaflets that adds to or evidences what you've been told?
[00:34:44.520 --> 00:34:47.960] Some of the leaflets might even include claims that violate regulations.
[00:34:47.960 --> 00:34:53.960] Advertising standards, consumer protection, MHRA, FDA, FTC, etc.
[00:34:54.280 --> 00:34:57.240] It's worth checking how you make a complaint in those situations.
[00:34:57.240 --> 00:35:03.720] Often it's as simple as filling in an online form and attaching an image of a flyer that you've now got a bunch of.
[00:35:04.040 --> 00:35:08.040] And then, of course, you've got your audio recording for evidence of anything else people said in person.
[00:35:08.040 --> 00:35:12.600] So you can listen to that back and type out anything they said that was very relevant to your complaint.
[00:35:12.600 --> 00:35:14.960] Keep all that audio in case you need it too.
[00:35:14.680 --> 00:35:18.240] It could become useful evidence if something goes forward.
[00:35:18.560 --> 00:35:23.920] And then finally, if you've got a really interesting experience or you see something really worth talking about, get in touch with us.
[00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:25.760] We'd be very happy to offer advice.
[00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:27.680] We'd be very happy to cover it in the skeptic.
[00:35:27.680 --> 00:35:29.680] You know, we're always looking for new writers.
[00:35:29.680 --> 00:35:33.360] Editor at skeptic.org.uk if you're interested in pitching something at the magazine.
[00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:34.800] You don't have to be an experienced writer.
[00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:37.920] I'm very happy to help you put your thoughts together and turn it into something.
[00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:39.760] But yeah, by all means, get in touch.
[00:35:39.760 --> 00:35:41.840] This could be a really, really interesting thing.
[00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:45.520] So those are our top tips on attending a Woo event.
[00:35:45.520 --> 00:35:47.200] I hope you all find them useful.
[00:35:47.200 --> 00:35:51.600] And if you do, be sure to let us know because we'd love to hear about your experiences.
[00:35:56.080 --> 00:36:08.960] So when this goes out, I will have just got back from a holiday that I am not going on for three weeks.
[00:36:09.600 --> 00:36:10.960] How's that for a headbuck?
[00:36:10.960 --> 00:36:11.760] So how was the holiday?
[00:36:11.760 --> 00:36:12.400] Would you have fun?
[00:36:12.560 --> 00:36:13.280] You come back?
[00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:14.400] You've got a beautiful tan.
[00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:15.680] You've come back with a beautiful tan.
[00:36:15.680 --> 00:36:16.640] It looks fantastic.
[00:36:16.640 --> 00:36:21.680] I can predict how the holiday goes because I'm going to Northern Cyprus where my parents have a place.
[00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:24.640] So it's a holiday I do regularly often.
[00:36:24.640 --> 00:36:26.720] I'm going with my mum and dad and Warren.
[00:36:26.720 --> 00:36:27.680] So we'll have a lovely time.
[00:36:27.680 --> 00:36:28.400] It'll be very hot.
[00:36:28.400 --> 00:36:29.600] It'll be very sunny.
[00:36:29.600 --> 00:36:30.800] And we'll have some lovely weather.
[00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:32.400] It'll be very nice.
[00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:38.560] I am currently anticipating some potential stress because we booked this holiday a little while ago.
[00:36:38.560 --> 00:36:47.200] We'd been omin and ah in for a while as to whether we were gonna, like, what dates we would go because my parents will go for like six weeks and we'll just like overlap for a little bit of that time.
[00:36:47.200 --> 00:36:51.520] And we were waiting for the flights to go on discount because it gets quite expensive these days.
[00:36:51.520 --> 00:36:53.920] And we were like, omin and ah in.
[00:36:53.920 --> 00:36:58.240] And both Warren and I have been really busy with work recently and a bit burnt out with various things.
[00:36:58.240 --> 00:36:59.120] So we were.
[00:36:59.120 --> 00:37:00.280] Well, not that recently.
[00:36:59.840 --> 00:37:00.920] Well, yeah, yeah.
[00:37:01.160 --> 00:37:11.160] So the admin of booking a holiday, even one that is relatively easy to book because it's going to my parents' place, was stressing us both out.
[00:37:11.160 --> 00:37:14.520] And eventually we sat down, like, okay, we're going to book these dates.
[00:37:14.520 --> 00:37:24.520] And literally, the second I hit confirm, pay, book these tickets, I turned to Warren and I said, um, your mum's around to have the dogs, right?
[00:37:24.520 --> 00:37:26.440] You've checked these dates with your mum.
[00:37:27.720 --> 00:37:31.560] And we realized that we had not checked with Warren's mum.
[00:37:31.560 --> 00:37:38.680] So we called his mum and we immediately found out that she's away not once but twice while we're away for the 10 days that we're on holiday.
[00:37:38.680 --> 00:37:43.240] She's going on two shorter breaks taking her dogs with her.
[00:37:43.240 --> 00:37:49.480] And the number of times we've said to her, please, if you ever book a holiday, let us know because we need to, like, we might not be around.
[00:37:49.480 --> 00:37:51.080] We want to make sure that we can look after your dogs.
[00:37:51.080 --> 00:37:53.160] But because she's taking the dogs with her, she didn't let us know.
[00:37:53.320 --> 00:37:54.760] She didn't need to let us know.
[00:37:54.760 --> 00:37:57.560] Not her responsibility, completely our responsibility.
[00:37:57.560 --> 00:38:02.760] So if you just shoot them both out onto the street, they'll take them Telford for you until you get us through.
[00:38:02.760 --> 00:38:04.360] That is very true.
[00:38:05.160 --> 00:38:09.000] Then they'll definitely give them back because they're both adoptable.
[00:38:09.880 --> 00:38:10.440] I've got the fee.
[00:38:11.160 --> 00:38:12.120] I've got the fee for you.
[00:38:12.120 --> 00:38:12.680] Fuck the fee.
[00:38:12.680 --> 00:38:13.560] Fucking have the fee.
[00:38:15.560 --> 00:38:19.160] So we've spent, Warren has spent a long time trying to figure out an alternative.
[00:38:19.160 --> 00:38:22.040] Obviously, like, they are a handful.
[00:38:22.040 --> 00:38:24.600] Like, both of them are a handful in different ways.
[00:38:24.600 --> 00:38:31.160] It's like looking after a cat is like, I'll make sure it's got food, I'll make sure it's got water, I'll clean its poo, and it might pop in.
[00:38:31.240 --> 00:38:34.280] Over a period of time, I'll just have a body in the house.
[00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:37.480] It's not going to be a physical stress on you.
[00:38:37.480 --> 00:38:50.080] They are, they are a handful, and so it's fine if Warren's mum has them because she's used to dogs and she's, you know, we look after her three dogs whenever she's away, so it's a bit of a tit for tat there.
[00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:52.800] And she's used to dogs, which is the key thing.
[00:38:52.800 --> 00:39:00.560] Most of our friends are cat people, so there's no way I would ask a cat person to come and look after our two particularly naughty dogs.
[00:39:00.560 --> 00:39:11.120] So we've been looking at loads and loads of different options, and we finally found a dog sitter who will she will take them to her home for most of the time.
[00:39:11.120 --> 00:39:13.520] Does she have the appropriate insurance for this?
[00:39:14.080 --> 00:39:17.440] Has she got the appropriate chicken wire around the bottom of the gate?
[00:39:17.440 --> 00:39:22.640] Genuinely, we're already thinking about can we buy her a metal dog crate that could be in the in her flat?
[00:39:22.640 --> 00:39:23.280] She lives in a metal.
[00:39:23.360 --> 00:39:24.720] So Micah destroys stuff.
[00:39:24.720 --> 00:39:25.520] This is the issue.
[00:39:25.520 --> 00:39:35.600] So, so Micah, when left unattended, if something triggers her anxiety, which isn't every time, she will redirect that anxiety towards destruction.
[00:39:35.600 --> 00:39:38.480] And she has quite strong teeth.
[00:39:38.480 --> 00:39:40.320] She has destroyed an entire carpet.
[00:39:40.320 --> 00:39:42.400] She doesn't destroy an entire sofa before.
[00:39:42.400 --> 00:39:43.040] So we now.
[00:39:43.120 --> 00:39:44.480] She could have let her loose into my bathroom.
[00:39:44.480 --> 00:39:46.720] I wouldn't even need to pierce someone to rip those tiles up before.
[00:39:47.040 --> 00:39:52.960] So she now does need, we have at home, we have a reasonably large metal crate because she can get through fabric crates.
[00:39:53.280 --> 00:39:54.720] She's got through a metal crate before.
[00:39:54.720 --> 00:40:02.000] We have a particularly industrial-sized metal crate for her for the short periods of time that she's left home alone, which every full moon.
[00:40:02.160 --> 00:40:04.320] Isn't so often these days because we both work from home.
[00:40:04.560 --> 00:40:10.480] Have you considered one of those Hannibal lecter rats that you can wheel her around in?
[00:40:10.480 --> 00:40:23.840] On a very brief aside, me and Nicola went to see Stuart Lee a couple of weeks ago now, and at one point he asked the audience about, like, he had a whole thing about becoming a werewolf, this kind of to become an alt-right comedian who's like pretending to be a werewolf with this alt-right comedian he turned into.
[00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:27.440] He said, So, everyone's always worried about like, would you become a vampire or a werewolf?
[00:40:27.440 --> 00:40:28.320] That's a question that comes up.
[00:40:28.480 --> 00:40:30.600] He said, You, sir, which would you prefer?
[00:40:30.600 --> 00:40:32.040] And the guy says, A werewolf.
[00:40:32.040 --> 00:40:33.080] He said, Okay, that's interesting.
[00:40:33.080 --> 00:40:33.640] Why?
[00:40:33.640 --> 00:40:41.960] He said, You know, you've got to work a couple of days a month just for the hours.
[00:40:42.280 --> 00:40:55.000] So, she's gonna have them at her apartment with her flatmate for most of the time that she's away, that we're away, but she's a nurse, and so she works, she's got a rotor, and she says, four days that she is working.
[00:40:55.000 --> 00:40:58.520] And the flatmate is a bit sensitive to barking dogs.
[00:40:58.520 --> 00:40:59.720] Oh, my God.
[00:41:00.040 --> 00:41:07.880] So, she's gonna come to our house, bring the dogs to the house, stay at our house for those four days, so the dogs can be also.
[00:41:07.960 --> 00:41:09.480] She's a dog sitting company whilst living in the flat door.
[00:41:10.840 --> 00:41:15.080] She's just a person who does rover type thing for money.
[00:41:15.080 --> 00:41:15.960] Yeah, yeah.
[00:41:15.960 --> 00:41:22.040] So, in many ways, she is doing dog sitting for money whilst living in the flatmate who hates dogs.
[00:41:22.040 --> 00:41:26.680] Doesn't hate dogs, loves dogs, just is a bit sensitive to barking dogs, which is fair enough.
[00:41:27.160 --> 00:41:38.520] So, she's going to come and stay at our house for the days that she's working so that A, the dogs are in familiar surroundings when they're left unattended, which is good, and don't destroy her flat, which is good.
[00:41:38.520 --> 00:41:40.440] And B, doesn't disturb the flatmate.
[00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:46.520] I am having so much anxiety about the fact that Lupin is a fucking escape artist.
[00:41:46.520 --> 00:41:49.640] Yeah, and they're going to be in our house.
[00:41:49.880 --> 00:41:57.800] I'm really worried that A, he's going to get out because obviously he's recently got out when I've been there, and it took me 40 minutes to fucking catch him.
[00:41:58.760 --> 00:42:02.680] But, B, also, like, and I went through the emotional trauma of that.
[00:42:02.680 --> 00:42:08.520] I don't want to put that onto somebody else to have the emotional trauma of I've lost a dog and it's not even my dog.
[00:42:08.520 --> 00:42:09.400] Yeah, yeah.
[00:42:10.040 --> 00:42:12.520] But also, I don't know how to convey that to somebody.
[00:42:12.520 --> 00:42:18.320] Like, how do you convey to a dog sitter, my dogs are awful, without putting them off looking after your dog?
[00:42:18.640 --> 00:42:19.920] That is a good question.
[00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:21.040] That is a good question.
[00:42:21.040 --> 00:42:49.760] I'm going to have to give her a really big list of information for how to keep Micah from being too anxious and help manage her anxiety, but also make sure that Lupin doesn't think you're a soft touch and can get away with getting running out of the front door or stealing your the food that you left on the table for just 30 seconds because he knows how to get onto the table or like any of the things that we have learned having these two nightmare dogs.
[00:42:51.360 --> 00:42:54.960] They are great dogs, listeners, but they are a handful.
[00:42:54.960 --> 00:43:03.280] So send us all your luck that the dogs don't just send our dog sitter into absolute despair.
[00:43:03.280 --> 00:43:06.080] Yeah, she's gonna retire from dog sitting at the end of this.
[00:43:06.080 --> 00:43:09.440] She says she's had dogs that are a handful before.
[00:43:09.680 --> 00:43:10.640] How big a hand?
[00:43:10.640 --> 00:43:13.280] Because and it's two dogs.
[00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:14.640] She's only got two hands.
[00:43:14.640 --> 00:43:23.120] It's a yeah, and it's the fact that they are difficult in diametrically opposed ways sometimes.
[00:43:23.680 --> 00:43:26.480] It's a classic like a big man, little man striker combo, basically.
[00:43:26.560 --> 00:43:28.960] So you want them to compliment each other.
[00:43:28.960 --> 00:43:31.920] Lupin has taken to more recently, Lupin never barks.
[00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:35.200] I must have said this on the show before, before, Lupin never barks.
[00:43:35.200 --> 00:43:37.840] He is not a barky dog at all.
[00:43:37.840 --> 00:43:44.880] And to the point that, like, I've trained him the command speak, and he will bark on command, but he really hates doing it.
[00:43:44.880 --> 00:43:50.720] So you will say to him, speak, and he'll kind of like just gesture as if he's going to bark, but then doesn't.
[00:43:50.720 --> 00:43:54.080] And it'll take him four or five times to work up to actually barking.
[00:43:54.080 --> 00:44:01.400] Recently, he's decided that anytime he wants anything, he'll just bark at Micah.
[00:43:59.440 --> 00:44:02.440] He just tells her off.
[00:44:02.760 --> 00:44:13.480] I think it's because he wants to sit in the spot that she sat in, but he's too scared to share because she can be a bit territorial sometimes.
[00:44:13.480 --> 00:44:19.960] So he shouts at her until she gets up to like play fight with him, and then he just goes and sits in the spot that she was in.
[00:44:20.280 --> 00:44:21.800] He's trying to game Micah.
[00:44:21.800 --> 00:44:22.520] Wow.
[00:44:26.680 --> 00:44:30.120] So, QED tickets for QED are still on sale.
[00:44:30.120 --> 00:44:33.160] You can find more information about that at qedcon.org.
[00:44:33.160 --> 00:44:35.480] Tickets are £179.
[00:44:35.480 --> 00:44:36.680] And that gets you everything.
[00:44:36.680 --> 00:44:38.360] That gets you access to the full event.
[00:44:38.360 --> 00:44:42.360] We don't do any added extras or bonuses or anything along those lines.
[00:44:42.360 --> 00:44:46.440] You can keep up to date on the latest announcements of QED at QEDCon.org.
[00:44:46.440 --> 00:44:48.200] QED also has a Blue Sky account now.
[00:44:48.200 --> 00:44:49.320] This was new for this year.
[00:44:49.320 --> 00:44:52.760] We did Twitter last year, but we've added the Blue Sky account this year.
[00:44:52.760 --> 00:44:56.280] So for listeners who are on Blue Sky, that's QEDCon.
[00:44:56.280 --> 00:45:02.280] In fact, I think it's at QDCon.org now, I think, is where we've put it rather than the BSky.social.
[00:45:02.520 --> 00:45:05.880] So I think that's at QEDCon.org on Blue Sky.
[00:45:05.880 --> 00:45:07.640] And also, the three of us are on Blue Sky as well.
[00:45:08.200 --> 00:45:08.920] You can find us there.
[00:45:08.920 --> 00:45:10.360] And the show is on Blue Sky.
[00:45:10.360 --> 00:45:22.680] And speaking of QED, we might even, we're toying with putting out some audio from QED on this feed so that listeners to this feed could get access to some of the conversations that are happening in the panel room on QED.
[00:45:22.680 --> 00:45:27.480] I wonder, listen, would you be up for that if occasionally you got dropped in a little bit of a QED panel as a bonus?
[00:45:27.480 --> 00:45:33.320] So not in the middle of regular shows, just on the regular feed, just an episode where you get to hear a bonus.
[00:45:33.200 --> 00:45:36.440] A bonus for a little free bonus just for being listeners.
[00:45:36.760 --> 00:45:37.880] So, yeah, let us know.
[00:45:37.880 --> 00:45:40.600] Podcast at merseyside skeptics.org.uk.
[00:45:40.600 --> 00:45:45.040] Actually, I think podcast at skepticswithakay.org works as well.
[00:45:45.040 --> 00:45:47.200] Now, I'll have to double-check that.
[00:45:47.200 --> 00:45:48.800] I think it's in the outro.
[00:45:48.800 --> 00:45:49.360] I said it.
[00:45:49.360 --> 00:45:50.160] I read it out.
[00:45:50.160 --> 00:45:51.120] I don't fucking remember.
[00:45:44.920 --> 00:45:51.840] Listen to yourself.
[00:45:52.480 --> 00:45:56.640] Listen to the theme tune in about 30 seconds' time, and then you'll know what email address to send to.
[00:45:56.640 --> 00:46:00.080] But let us know, podcast at whatever the fucking domain name happens to be.
[00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:03.440] So, yeah, listeners, you should definitely come along to QD.
[00:46:03.440 --> 00:46:04.480] It's going to be a fantastic time.
[00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:07.120] It's going to be the last opportunity you get to come to QD.
[00:46:07.120 --> 00:46:09.760] Go to the qdcon.org for more information.
[00:46:09.760 --> 00:46:10.160] Yep.
[00:46:10.160 --> 00:46:12.640] Aside from that, then I think that is all we have time for.
[00:46:12.640 --> 00:46:13.280] I think it is.
[00:46:13.280 --> 00:46:15.840] Quite literally, actually, because we've been recording forever.
[00:46:15.840 --> 00:46:16.480] This has been a long time.
[00:46:16.640 --> 00:46:18.720] This has been a long recording session.
[00:46:18.720 --> 00:46:23.200] It is now way past my tea time and not far from my bedtime.
[00:46:23.840 --> 00:46:26.320] All that remains is we thank Marsh for coming along today.
[00:46:26.320 --> 00:46:26.880] Cheers.
[00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:28.160] Thank you very much to Alice.
[00:46:28.160 --> 00:46:28.640] Thank you.
[00:46:28.640 --> 00:46:31.360] We have been Skeptics with a K, and we will see you next time.
[00:46:31.360 --> 00:46:32.000] Bye now.
[00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:33.040] Bye.
[00:46:37.840 --> 00:46:42.880] Skeptics with a K is produced by Skeptic Media in association with the Merseyside Skeptic Society.
[00:46:42.880 --> 00:46:51.920] For questions or comments, email podcast at skepticswithakay.org and you can find out more about Merseyside Skeptics at merseyside skeptics.org.uk.

Prompt 2: Key Takeaways

Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.

Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...". 

Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive. 

IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}

Prompt 3: Segments

Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.

For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)  
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion

IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
  "segments": [
    {
      "segment_title": "Topic Discussion", 
      "timestamp": "01:15:30",
      "key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
      "segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
    }
  ]
}

Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.

Prompt 4: Media Mentions

Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:

Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)  
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)

DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names

IMPORTANT: 
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
  "media_mentions": [
    {
      "title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
      "category": "Book",
      "author_artist": "N/A",
      "context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
      "context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
      "timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
    }
  ]
}

If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}

Full Transcript

[00:00:00.480 --> 00:00:06.000] Ford was built on the belief that the world doesn't get to decide what you're capable of.
[00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:06.960] You do.
[00:00:06.960 --> 00:00:10.480] So, ask yourself: can you or can't you?
[00:00:10.480 --> 00:00:15.280] Can you load up a Ford F-150 and build your dream with sweat and steel?
[00:00:15.280 --> 00:00:18.960] Can you chase thrills and conquer curves in a Mustang?
[00:00:18.960 --> 00:00:23.440] Can you take a Bronco to where the map ends and adventure begins?
[00:00:23.440 --> 00:00:27.520] Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right.
[00:00:27.520 --> 00:00:28.400] Ready?
[00:00:28.400 --> 00:00:29.200] Set.
[00:00:29.200 --> 00:00:30.480] Ford.
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[00:00:49.760 --> 00:00:54.000] Yep, get more at Value City Furniture while paying less.
[00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:56.960] More style, more quality, more value.
[00:00:56.960 --> 00:00:59.600] We are Value City Furniture.
[00:01:07.360 --> 00:01:14.880] It is Thursday, the 12th of June, 2025, and you're listening to Skeptics with a K, the podcast for science, reason, and critical thinking.
[00:01:14.880 --> 00:01:25.840] Skeptics with a K is produced by Skeptic Media in association with the Merseyside Skeptic Society, a non-profit organization for the promotion of scientific skepticism on Merseyside around the UK and internationally.
[00:01:25.840 --> 00:01:27.200] I'm your host, Mike Hall.
[00:01:27.200 --> 00:01:28.480] With me today is Marsh.
[00:01:28.480 --> 00:01:29.760] Hello and Alice.
[00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:30.480] Hello.
[00:01:30.480 --> 00:01:35.440] So one of the things we talk about fairly often on this show is our love of attending weird events.
[00:01:35.680 --> 00:01:38.880] We went to see David Icke giving a four-hour lecture in Southport.
[00:01:38.880 --> 00:01:44.160] We spent a weekend at the Flat Earth Conference and a different weekend at Lynn McTaggart's Get Well conference.
[00:01:44.160 --> 00:01:53.920] We've been to Gerson Therapy lectures and QAnon seminars and psychic shows and anti-vax rallies and 150 Minute City protests and countless mind-body-spirit events.
[00:01:53.920 --> 00:01:55.280] It's one of my favorite things to do.
[00:01:55.280 --> 00:01:56.160] I absolutely love it.
[00:01:56.160 --> 00:01:56.880] It's a meet mix.
[00:01:56.960 --> 00:01:59.760] I think also it's a meeting makes our show fairly unique.
[00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:09.480] I don't think there's many shows out there in that we actually these days are not many shows out there that turn up to the odd things that we skeptics like to talk about and then kind of report on it like firsthand.
[00:02:09.720 --> 00:02:10.360] You can say that now.
[00:02:12.120 --> 00:02:12.360] Exactly.
[00:02:12.440 --> 00:02:22.360] I mean, I think it was only them and us, and I don't know, maybe like QAA so QAnon Anonymous would go on to QAnon rallies and talk about it, but like there's not many who do this kind of thing.
[00:02:22.360 --> 00:02:27.160] And incidentally, the only reason that we're able to do any of that is because of the support of our listeners.
[00:02:27.160 --> 00:02:38.760] So, listeners, yeah, if you do like to send us, or rather, let's face it, me and Alice, off to these oddities to report back from, that's a great reason to sign up to our Patreon at patreon.com forward slash skeptics with a K.
[00:02:38.760 --> 00:02:47.720] Since our show became an independent production at the start of the year, that's the best place to invest in torturing us for your own audio amusement across the next however many years.
[00:02:47.720 --> 00:02:48.600] That is a place to go.
[00:02:48.600 --> 00:02:50.120] I honestly don't know how you can do it.
[00:02:50.120 --> 00:02:54.840] I've got no idea how you can do those things and go there and be in that space.
[00:02:55.080 --> 00:02:59.080] It just makes my skin crawl just fucking thinking about it.
[00:02:59.080 --> 00:03:02.040] Listeners will have a different response to that by the end of this story.
[00:03:02.040 --> 00:03:07.080] Because we talked a lot on the show about the products of those excursions.
[00:03:07.080 --> 00:03:08.760] The weird experience we've had.
[00:03:08.760 --> 00:03:15.320] I've talked about being smeared in neem by a man who claimed that covering himself in neem cream is the reason he didn't look 80.
[00:03:15.320 --> 00:03:18.440] When in actuality, I think it's just that he wasn't 80.
[00:03:18.440 --> 00:03:20.200] People have lying about his age.
[00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:25.240] We've talked about getting a crystal reading in a former military base in the Midlands.
[00:03:25.240 --> 00:03:32.600] We've told you about the time that Alice got to listen to a digitized version of DNA, courtesy of a vet/slash sovereign citizen.
[00:03:34.760 --> 00:03:37.880] There was no indication that he was a vet on any of that stuff.
[00:03:38.440 --> 00:03:39.720] It just happens that I knew him.
[00:03:39.720 --> 00:03:40.680] Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[00:03:40.680 --> 00:03:47.840] Which is which is interesting because most other Woo practitioners would be using that to legitimize their position on things.
[00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:49.680] Like, I'm a medical professional.
[00:03:50.160 --> 00:03:53.920] Yes, I'm medic for animals, but still, medical professional.
[00:03:55.840 --> 00:03:56.480] Here's what I learned.
[00:03:56.720 --> 00:03:58.240] There you go, exactly.
[00:03:58.240 --> 00:03:59.200] You can't do that.
[00:03:59.200 --> 00:04:00.080] That was so long ago.
[00:04:01.520 --> 00:04:04.800] We've literally no idea how long ago that callback is.
[00:04:05.120 --> 00:04:11.520] I've also mentioned a time that Sally Morgan asked an audience member if her deceased husband connected with the name Shell or Michelle.
[00:04:11.520 --> 00:04:15.120] And the audience member replied, Well, he used to go to a Shell garage.
[00:04:15.920 --> 00:04:16.720] Incredible.
[00:04:16.720 --> 00:04:17.760] Absolutely incredible.
[00:04:17.760 --> 00:04:20.240] Did the name staff or staff mean anything to him?
[00:04:20.240 --> 00:04:22.240] At work, he was a member of staff.
[00:04:22.240 --> 00:04:23.200] Probably not that, mate.
[00:04:23.200 --> 00:04:24.400] Probably not that.
[00:04:24.400 --> 00:04:31.440] We've also regaled you with stories of how Martin Kenny thought the world and its entirety of history was based around a massive cosmic egg.
[00:04:31.440 --> 00:04:35.440] So, in short, we've had some highlights and we've treated you on this show.
[00:04:35.760 --> 00:04:57.200] But while we have told you all these stories, it recently occurred to me that while we focus a lot on the what with a little bit of the why, we haven't really talked a lot about the how we, yeah, and we definitely do the why a lot because we try and we try and make sure that we're not just rubbernecking at the weirdos because that that would be really crass and isn't what we're about.
[00:04:57.200 --> 00:05:00.240] We're about empathy, we're about learning from these experiences.
[00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:07.520] We try and make it entertaining, we might make some jokes about the silly beliefs that people hold, but we try to be compassionate about it and learn something from it.
[00:05:07.520 --> 00:05:12.320] And I think we always do learn something really useful from going and we try to share that side of it.
[00:05:12.320 --> 00:05:18.800] But yeah, we haven't necessarily talked about the logistics of actually going undercover and all of that.
[00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:22.480] So, today I wanted to remind you of why we think it's so worthwhile.
[00:05:22.480 --> 00:05:28.000] And then I thought I'd cover our tips and sort of how-to guide for attending a Woo event undercover.
[00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:37.800] And this was actually inspired by a listener called Brian who got in touch to ask whether it was worth going to a local holistic healing and health expo that he saw recently advertised on a sign in the street.
[00:05:37.800 --> 00:05:46.280] To which my advice was: if it isn't expensive and if it's easy to get to, and if it's easy to get out of, because you need to leave, it's worth popping along.
[00:05:46.280 --> 00:05:48.440] Now, some listeners might wonder: is it worth it?
[00:05:48.440 --> 00:05:49.720] Why is it worth it?
[00:05:49.720 --> 00:05:59.320] It's a valid question because, after all, you're giving up your time, you're giving up some money, and worse than all of both the things, you're giving that money to someone or something that we actively disagree with.
[00:05:59.320 --> 00:06:01.400] And I can see why people would think that's not worth doing.
[00:06:01.880 --> 00:06:07.000] And frankly, for a subset of people, it really isn't worth doing.
[00:06:07.560 --> 00:06:09.400] It's not, it's definitely not worth you.
[00:06:09.960 --> 00:06:15.160] I'm gonna argue otherwise because I personally, as I've mentioned the show before, I think it's really worth it.
[00:06:15.160 --> 00:06:24.520] First of all, if you're listening to this show, you're at least a little bit interested in skepticism, and there is absolutely no substitute for seeing the opposite of skepticism up close.
[00:06:24.520 --> 00:06:32.120] Like, you can read the Wikipedia page on cold reading, or you can watch a room full of strangers crumble at the hands of a skilled cold reader.
[00:06:32.360 --> 00:06:38.200] And one of those experiences is materially richer in terms of what you'll get out of it and to learn from than the other.
[00:06:38.200 --> 00:06:43.160] We've said this on the show before, and I sit here taking the piss of saying, you know, it's a fucking horrendous thing to do.
[00:06:43.320 --> 00:06:47.480] It's a brilliant thing to do, and I love that that's something that we could do and that we can report on.
[00:06:47.480 --> 00:06:50.760] It's just not something that I personally would be comfortable doing at all.
[00:06:51.000 --> 00:07:02.760] But of the few occasions that I have gone into the belly of the beast, as it were, watching a really good cold reader, or even actually a moderately good cold reader on stage, it's fucking impressive to watch.
[00:07:02.760 --> 00:07:05.000] Yeah, you can see why people fall for it.
[00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:13.840] It is an absolute art form watching them stand there and just pick up on these tiny little pieces of information and parry them back at people.
[00:07:13.840 --> 00:07:20.560] And the reaction that they get out, it's absolutely beautiful to watch if it wasn't so fucking ghastly what they were doing.
[00:07:14.840 --> 00:07:20.880] Exactly.
[00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:34.000] And similarly, you can hear skeptical talks about applied kinesiology, or you can see firsthand as people get fooled by someone who is just subtle about the physical forces they apply to their arm in order to sell some worthless trinket or another.
[00:07:34.320 --> 00:07:46.080] And you can read about the impact of inadequate healthcare and how it can drive frustrated patients into the arms of quackery, or you can be in a room where people are entrusting their health to the advice of the entirely unqualified.
[00:07:46.320 --> 00:07:49.200] I think it's an education for a skeptic to be in that room.
[00:07:49.200 --> 00:07:59.360] Not just to see what's being sold and what's soon to be the next thing that we're all going to be worried about and talking about, but also to see how it's being sold and to whom and why they buy it.
[00:07:59.360 --> 00:08:02.720] And all of that makes you a more informed and more effective skeptic.
[00:08:02.720 --> 00:08:10.560] I remember a few weeks ago when we had the McCola tapes was doing the rounds and I posted it to Hacker News.
[00:08:11.440 --> 00:08:16.640] I put the link to Jonathan's article on the McCola tapes up onto Hacker News.
[00:08:16.640 --> 00:08:28.720] And I was reading through some of the comments on there and the comments in there were a few of the comments in there were quite dismissive because Jonathan had gone to some lengths to couch his article in quite positive language.
[00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:29.280] Yes.
[00:08:29.280 --> 00:08:39.600] Including there's a line I think he says where it's not defensible to buy into McCola's stuff once you've learned that he's getting half from ChatGPT and half from a psychic, right?
[00:08:39.920 --> 00:08:44.480] And somebody had commented going, oh, like it was okay before, but now you know it's ChatGPT.
[00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:57.120] And so I stepped in to defend Jonathan and said, it is totally reasonable to write an article like this in a way where you are trying to coax people who are in that world away from that world.
[00:08:57.440 --> 00:09:01.800] You don't have to be derisive and unkind to these people.
[00:09:02.120 --> 00:09:09.800] And one of the things about going to events and seeing these people, it makes it so much harder to just point and laugh at the weirdos and say, well, you deserve it.
[00:09:09.800 --> 00:09:11.560] Fucking Darwin Awards, everything you get.
[00:09:11.560 --> 00:09:11.800] Exactly.
[00:09:11.960 --> 00:09:27.160] When you see real people who are genuinely there in tears, suffering, struggling with whatever is going on in their lives, and watching them being taken in by the bullshit that they're being sold, but for their real genuine problems that they're actually struggling with.
[00:09:27.160 --> 00:09:33.240] And it's easy to sit at home behind your keyboard to go, wanker, when you're not looking at these people in the face.
[00:09:33.240 --> 00:09:37.080] Yeah, it's so much harder to say that to their face or their shoes in my case.
[00:09:37.720 --> 00:09:40.600] But I mean, all that said, there are bad reasons to go.
[00:09:40.600 --> 00:09:49.720] You shouldn't go if your intention is to persuade people that they're wrong or to shout at the people selling things or to be disruptive or aggressive or condescending or any mix of those things.
[00:09:49.720 --> 00:10:00.600] And that's what I mean when I say I think there's for some subset of people, it's not useful to go because you're not going to get anywhere and you're not going to learn anything from it because you're not going with that right mindset.
[00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:01.160] Yeah, exactly.
[00:10:01.160 --> 00:10:10.760] And partly going with that kind of mindset reflects very badly on sceptics, which only makes the attendees more likely to distrust us and trust the people you're shouting at.
[00:10:10.760 --> 00:10:11.000] Yeah.
[00:10:11.000 --> 00:10:16.680] Because you're the nasty person who seemed like they were so aggressive and the poor person you're shouting at is the good guy.
[00:10:16.680 --> 00:10:17.800] We've become the bad guys.
[00:10:17.800 --> 00:10:19.800] They become the underdogs and the put upon.
[00:10:19.800 --> 00:10:21.480] And it really backfire for that.
[00:10:21.480 --> 00:10:37.240] One of the most consistent things we've learned by attending these sorts of things is that a great deal of people who believe in these unusual things get there because they're looking for community, they're looking for support, they're looking for people who are on their side.
[00:10:37.240 --> 00:10:42.120] And going in and being the antagonist is making us be on the other side.
[00:10:42.120 --> 00:10:43.720] Yeah, you'll keep them away from our side.
[00:10:43.720 --> 00:10:50.800] But also, if your goal there is to understand as much as possible and to see Wu in the wild, you're going to break that spell when you disrupt things.
[00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:56.400] And in doing so, you also completely shatter your learning experience, which is one of the things that running the reason to go there.
[00:10:56.400 --> 00:11:06.160] And chances are, you already know how those conversations go when you're being antagonistic because you know when there's a disagreement or antagonism, because we've all already experienced that.
[00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:11.120] So, for me, the purpose of attending is as a learning exercise, not a teaching exercise, I'd say.
[00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:17.600] So, let's say you do agree with me and disagree with Mike, and you decide to attend whatever event you happen to spot.
[00:11:17.600 --> 00:11:20.080] Well, what should you have in mind in doing so?
[00:11:20.400 --> 00:11:28.240] One thing that came to mind before you go, it's worth thinking about what to wear, or rather, it's worth making sure you don't overthink what to wear.
[00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:32.080] Your goal is to go there and be incognito and unobtrusive.
[00:11:32.080 --> 00:11:33.440] That's another reason I can't go.
[00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:35.520] I stand out, I fucking saw Thomas wearing it.
[00:11:35.680 --> 00:11:36.880] 100%, 100%.
[00:11:36.880 --> 00:11:46.320] Yeah, so like, don't try so hard to blend in that you end up wearing something that makes you seem uncomfortable in it, because then you'll stand out as a person who seems uncomfortable.
[00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:53.440] Just wear your regular clothes, but maybe skip the t-shirts with slogans that ridicule religion or ridicule woos or promote sides.
[00:11:53.440 --> 00:11:55.520] Just wear something fairly neutral that way.
[00:11:55.520 --> 00:12:00.240] If you feel comfortable, you'll act more comfortable, and no one will pay attention to you because they're just going about their lives.
[00:12:00.240 --> 00:12:05.920] That said, if your regular wear is a full suit and a full-length under jacket, maybe skip it.
[00:12:05.920 --> 00:12:07.760] This kind of gig isn't for you.
[00:12:07.760 --> 00:12:12.640] I would, however, suggest that you wear something with pockets and also make sure you carry a bag of some degree.
[00:12:13.200 --> 00:12:21.280] So, this is the only extent to which I think about what I wear, because I don't wear anything that would give me away as a skeptic or even a nerd most of the time.
[00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:27.520] That's not my fashion sense, I tend to not think too much about what I'm wearing other than making sure.
[00:12:27.520 --> 00:12:38.120] Obviously, a lot of women's clothes, I don't have pockets today, a lot of women's clothes don't have pockets, so I do try and make sure that I'm wearing something that has a pocket or a jacket that has a pocket and a bag, as you say.
[00:12:38.120 --> 00:12:50.120] Yeah, like the pockets will allow you to keep your phone close enough to hand for anything you might need it for, and the bag will come in very, very handy when it comes to flyers and leaflets and free samples and anything else you're allowed to take without handing over more cash.
[00:12:50.120 --> 00:12:52.600] And my advice is take all of that.
[00:12:52.600 --> 00:12:57.320] Always visit all of the stands that you can, casually pick up any leaflets or flies they've got lying around.
[00:12:57.320 --> 00:13:00.920] Those flyers are treasure troves of material as part of your educational experience.
[00:13:00.920 --> 00:13:05.640] They'll help you fill in the blanks that you have from any conversations that you have while you're there.
[00:13:05.640 --> 00:13:07.720] Free samples are great for the same reason.
[00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:09.560] They're excellent collector's items.
[00:13:09.560 --> 00:13:13.640] That said, do be careful what you do with them when you get home.
[00:13:13.640 --> 00:13:20.120] One, I think, an Ayurvedic face wash or face cleanser that I took from maybe the Get Well Shaw or a previous show.
[00:13:20.520 --> 00:13:21.400] Was it in a purple tube?
[00:13:21.400 --> 00:13:21.800] It's a purple shoe.
[00:13:21.880 --> 00:13:23.960] I've got some next to my desk right at this moment.
[00:13:24.280 --> 00:13:28.440] Yeah, well, the one in our house accidentally made it from my office into the bathroom somehow.
[00:13:28.440 --> 00:13:31.560] And the next thing I saw, it was Nicola using it in the shower.
[00:13:32.200 --> 00:13:34.360] Which was fine because it turned out it was fine.
[00:13:34.360 --> 00:13:39.160] But it's definitely worth keeping a hard wall between the WooSwag and the everyday toiletries just in case.
[00:13:39.160 --> 00:13:43.560] Yeah, because we do know that sometimes there's not a great deal of regulation on these sorts of things.
[00:13:43.560 --> 00:13:48.760] We don't always know what's in them, despite the fact that you will drink any sample that you are ever given at a get well.
[00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:49.640] She will come back to that.
[00:13:49.640 --> 00:13:57.480] So I mentioned having your phone to hand, and that's because these days nobody bats an eye at casual photos being taken of what's going on, especially during talks and seminars.
[00:13:57.480 --> 00:13:59.720] So like look around, see what other people are doing.
[00:13:59.720 --> 00:14:06.360] If there's an odd picture being taken by people here and there, feel free to take that as a cue to gently document things that seem of interest.
[00:14:06.360 --> 00:14:10.000] And that's the interesting thing I was thinking before when we were talking about pockets.
[00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:10.840] Like we used to take.
[00:14:10.840 --> 00:14:15.680] I used to have a dictaphone that you used to take, and you used to have like a little spy cam that you used to use and stuff.
[00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:30.240] And we don't need any of that stuff anymore because like phones, my recorder on my phone is amazing and it's got like a transcriber built into it and picks up things better than any dictaphone I've ever owned.
[00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:38.240] But it's also really easy to just casually have and casually take photos of things going on because me especially always have my phone in my hand.
[00:14:38.320 --> 00:14:40.320] It's not unusual at all.
[00:14:40.640 --> 00:14:50.960] Also, personally, I advise I always set my phone or my tablet to do an audio recording from before I set foot in that building and then I let it run all the way until I leave the building fully.
[00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:52.800] There's some legal stuff to be aware of here.
[00:14:52.800 --> 00:14:54.960] It might differ depending on where you live.
[00:14:54.960 --> 00:14:56.800] So I'm going to be talking about the UK system.
[00:14:56.800 --> 00:15:02.960] But generally speaking, from what I understand in a lot of jurisdictions, including internationally, check this in your own area.
[00:15:02.960 --> 00:15:09.920] If you're intent to record something only for your own records, not for broadcast, not for sharing, that's often fine.
[00:15:09.920 --> 00:15:10.160] Yeah.
[00:15:10.160 --> 00:15:10.480] I can't believe that.
[00:15:10.640 --> 00:15:13.680] Especially if you're in a public event.
[00:15:13.680 --> 00:15:15.920] You're not in a private conversation somewhere.
[00:15:15.920 --> 00:15:32.880] Yeah, we rarely, if ever, play our recordings in public, but we do record all the meetings we attend in order to help us remember things clearly because that can be really useful in case anything comes up during the conversations that inspires follow-up and then you've got what was actually said for then writing that down and transcribing it so you can use what they say.
[00:15:32.880 --> 00:15:38.400] But when it comes to undercover recording, the legal line is often around invasion of privacy and the assumption of privacy.
[00:15:38.400 --> 00:15:42.880] So the more invasive the recording, the stronger the justification for an invasion of privacy must be.
[00:15:42.880 --> 00:15:47.840] But when you're at a public event, even one that's ticketed, people can't assume to be in private.
[00:15:47.840 --> 00:16:00.000] So, the barrier for what constitutes an invasion of privacy is much lower, especially if they're there for work reasons, because they're giving a talk or they're representing their company on a stall or a booth, they're selling their wares, all these things.
[00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:08.040] They're not there in a private capacity, they're in a public capacity, and therefore, recording them in that situation is a much lower invasion of privacy.
[00:16:08.040 --> 00:16:16.120] If you're speaking at an event, you have no reasonable assumption of privacy because you're speaking at a public event, you've agreed to do that.
[00:16:16.120 --> 00:16:20.760] Then, in terms of prep, I think, again, the key: don't overprepare, don't overthink things.
[00:16:20.760 --> 00:16:26.040] It is worth having to hand maybe an answer as to why you're there in case somebody just gets into a friendly chat with you.
[00:16:26.040 --> 00:16:30.600] Because the kind of thing that comes up is someone might conversationally ask you, you know, what brought you along today?
[00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:31.320] How come you come along?
[00:16:31.320 --> 00:16:31.800] People just ask you to.
[00:16:32.120 --> 00:16:33.880] It's a go-to question, isn't it?
[00:16:33.880 --> 00:16:37.640] It's that, like, especially I find this when I'm at Mercia Skeptics events.
[00:16:37.640 --> 00:16:40.680] I have like my set, how to chat to people I've not met before.
[00:16:40.680 --> 00:16:41.480] Like, how did you find us?
[00:16:41.560 --> 00:16:42.520] How did you hear about us?
[00:16:42.520 --> 00:16:43.800] Yeah, those sorts of things.
[00:16:43.800 --> 00:16:49.240] And at those sorts of events, the people, you know, running tables or running the event have done exactly the same thing.
[00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:53.160] They've will have prepped themselves with, oh, you know, what got you interested in this sort of thing.
[00:16:53.240 --> 00:16:56.760] And other attendees will want to make small talk at some point, and that's an easy way to do it.
[00:16:56.760 --> 00:17:06.920] So, my answer to that tends to be something along the lines of, you know, I've always been interested in learning more, but I've not had the chance to see as much as I'd want to, which isn't untrue because I'd like to see quite a lot.
[00:17:07.560 --> 00:17:14.520] But the good thing about that is it puts you there for the right reasons, but also establishes that there's no expectation that you're an expert on anything.
[00:17:14.520 --> 00:17:18.920] And if anything, it also gives you cover for if you seem awkward about how any of it works.
[00:17:18.920 --> 00:17:23.640] And if anything, it's actually an invitation for them to tell you more, which is great because that's exactly what you want.
[00:17:23.640 --> 00:17:26.920] So I'm interested in learning more, haven't had a chance to learn as much as I'd want to.
[00:17:26.920 --> 00:17:30.680] Great, they'll tell you more, they'll give you all that kind of information.
[00:17:30.680 --> 00:17:36.680] Also, that's something you can reflect back on them in those kind of questions, like when you meet with them, those kind of questions.
[00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:37.800] Oh, yeah, how about you?
[00:17:37.800 --> 00:17:39.320] How often, how did you hear about this?
[00:17:39.320 --> 00:17:40.600] Do you come to these kind of things often?
[00:17:40.600 --> 00:17:41.400] What brings you along?
[00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:42.760] What got you interested in this?
[00:17:42.760 --> 00:17:46.640] Open-friendly questions, invite them to tell you more about what they're thinking.
[00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:50.800] Another little bit of prep that can be worth doing, depending on the event, is to have a little bit of a backstory.
[00:17:44.840 --> 00:17:52.320] Again, the key is don't overthink things.
[00:17:52.400 --> 00:18:02.640] But if you're going to an alternative health event, you don't want to be like memorizing complex medical records that you read online and then trying to like regurgitate that accurately in the moment.
[00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:03.600] You're not going to be able to do that.
[00:18:03.600 --> 00:18:05.280] You're not going to be able to exactly.
[00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:06.480] You'll just freeze, yeah.
[00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:17.440] Yeah, or you'll get details wrong, you'll forget some details, and it'll be clear that you're making this up, that you don't know what you're talking about, that you're that you're not very well acquainted with the symptoms that you're talking about.
[00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:21.120] Overprepared in that situation can also make you seem like you're coming in with an agenda.
[00:18:21.120 --> 00:18:29.680] There'll be lots of people who do have that level of specificity because it'll be honest, but unless you have it honestly, skip the creative writing exercise.
[00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:44.800] Yeah, and that's what we've done before: is we've gone to things with when we did that psychic reading in Blackpool, and it's well, Alice is going to go in with the story of a medical health history because a real medical health problems.
[00:18:44.800 --> 00:18:48.880] I can go in on that truthfully and see where things go.
[00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:56.640] Yeah, whereas with Laurie, we didn't give him a strong backstory, but we did say, imagine you have gambling debts and you want to know, will you earn somebody coming off?
[00:18:56.640 --> 00:18:59.680] And just stay at that level, but don't go, don't overcomplicate it.
[00:18:59.680 --> 00:19:03.440] I think Emma gave them so little that they said she was dead inside.
[00:19:03.440 --> 00:19:04.400] That was a different reading.
[00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:11.920] The one in Blackpool, Emma's instruction was don't answer any questions, just always say, Sorry, do you want me to say yes or no?
[00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:14.240] Or say, I don't understand.
[00:19:14.320 --> 00:19:16.800] Could you clarify what you're saying?
[00:19:16.800 --> 00:19:17.120] Right.
[00:19:17.120 --> 00:19:17.520] Yeah.
[00:19:17.840 --> 00:19:19.120] And that shut the whole thing down.
[00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:20.040] I don't currently awkward.
[00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:24.640] Well, and as it happened, we had that was already overprepared.
[00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:27.680] All of that was overprepared because that particular case.
[00:19:27.680 --> 00:19:31.000] And we should mention it on the show again because we haven't mentioned it for so long.
[00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:40.360] The video from that is on YouTube, and it was an excellent piece of work because you'd seen the psychic palm reader and felt like it sounded really formulaic.
[00:19:40.360 --> 00:19:42.440] So you were like, let's do this investigation.
[00:19:42.840 --> 00:19:48.120] We'll go in and we'll see this psychic palm reader and we'll have four different stories and backstories.
[00:19:48.120 --> 00:19:49.880] And we'd prepared all of these backstories.
[00:19:49.880 --> 00:19:55.720] And it was just verbatim, the whole thing was just a script for her and her daughter.
[00:19:57.640 --> 00:19:58.280] Yeah, exactly.
[00:19:58.520 --> 00:20:03.400] And it's the video that was cut together and put on YouTube is an amazing example of that.
[00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:06.920] I think it's a good thinking investigates palm reading, I think is the name of the video.
[00:20:06.920 --> 00:20:08.920] If you check that out, as a three-part series on it.
[00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:11.400] But all the prep there was largely a waste of time, right?
[00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:12.120] Because you couldn't have gone in the middle of the year.
[00:20:12.440 --> 00:20:14.440] We couldn't say anything because it was just script.
[00:20:14.600 --> 00:20:16.840] Yeah, you'd have got the same script out of them.
[00:20:16.840 --> 00:20:18.840] But you never know when your prep is a waste of time.
[00:20:19.160 --> 00:20:20.440] So it's worth doing a little bit of it.
[00:20:20.520 --> 00:20:20.760] Of course, yeah.
[00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:22.840] I've over prepped in the past and made a big mistake.
[00:20:22.840 --> 00:20:23.800] I've gone too specific.
[00:20:24.040 --> 00:20:34.280] When I was going around health food shops, asking specifically, there'd been a story in the papers about health food shops being willing to sell products for infant diarrhea, which can be quite serious if it goes on for too long.
[00:20:34.280 --> 00:20:38.680] And when I started working for Good Thinking, I went to a few different health food shops and asked about infant diarrhea.
[00:20:38.840 --> 00:20:44.040] I've got a baby and they've been had, and the problem is they asked the question, how long have they had this for?
[00:20:44.040 --> 00:20:45.160] And I don't have a kid.
[00:20:45.400 --> 00:20:47.080] I have no idea what's normal.
[00:20:47.080 --> 00:20:56.440] And what I said was clearly not normal and it blew the entire thing because I was talking with specificity about something beyond my expertise or my acquaintance.
[00:20:56.440 --> 00:20:57.960] So don't do that.
[00:20:57.960 --> 00:20:59.720] I've had this for 46 years now.
[00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:03.000] You're six months old.
[00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:09.320] So, I do suggest if you're going to go in with a backstory that includes an illness, I'd suggest either using an illness you actually have.
[00:21:09.320 --> 00:21:10.600] I often use chronic allergies.
[00:21:10.600 --> 00:21:12.040] I have quite a lot of allergies and things.
[00:21:12.040 --> 00:21:13.720] You have a lot of illnesses you can draw.
[00:21:13.880 --> 00:21:16.080] I can pick from any one of a number.
[00:21:14.840 --> 00:21:18.160] Or you could use an illness that you know well.
[00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:24.000] So, perhaps talk about something you know a close family member has had, so you will have an experience of the symptoms.
[00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:30.960] And if you're not talking about it as something you've got, but something someone in your life has got, then any gaps that you have in that information will be explicable.
[00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:42.560] And if you feel like you might feel really awkward talking about it from your own perspective, you could use, oh, my partner's got and then any question you can't answer is, oh, I don't know, she never seems to mention it that way, or whatever, yeah.
[00:21:42.560 --> 00:21:56.000] Yeah, or and if you're going to use it, if you don't have that in your life, or if you want to use an illness you don't know particularly well, you cite someone just far enough, ascribe this to someone just far enough away that you'd be interested and care, but wouldn't be expected to know the details.
[00:21:56.000 --> 00:22:00.160] I've been to alternative health events where I've talked about a friend's mum having breast cancer.
[00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:03.600] It's plausible, as a good friend, that that would be on my mind.
[00:22:03.600 --> 00:22:08.480] And people do offer and seek unsolicited advice in those situations, so it's not a suspicious story to have.
[00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:13.600] But if pressed in the details, I'm not going to know the specifics of that, I'm just going to know the very broad strokes.
[00:22:13.600 --> 00:22:15.760] That's about all the preparation I think you'd need.
[00:22:15.760 --> 00:22:17.200] So, then it's a case of just heading in.
[00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:26.240] Well, no, there is one more thing that we that you've thought about before and that does come up come up occasionally, particularly if it comes to alternative medicine stuff.
[00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:33.680] Is if you're a single bloke going on your own, you might stand out a little bit more, depending on the type of event you're going to.
[00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:38.240] Maybe more mind-body-spirit festivals are often female-dominated-dominated.
[00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:41.040] Scientific events specifically, you'd stand out a little bit.
[00:22:41.040 --> 00:22:43.440] Mind-body-spirit events are somewhere in the middle, I'd say.
[00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:52.560] I think mostly you can pass it off, and it's totally fine because single men do go to those sorts of events, just like women do go to some of the more male-dominated events occasionally.
[00:22:52.560 --> 00:22:57.840] But if you feel like you might feel a bit more awkward, you might want to think about the kind of people who'll be there and take a friend.
[00:22:58.240 --> 00:23:00.920] Yeah, that's that's certainly good advice for a psychic show in particular.
[00:23:00.920 --> 00:23:04.200] I think maybe Mind, Body, Spirit, I think these days, post-COVID, I think you may.
[00:22:59.920 --> 00:23:06.120] Yeah, the climate's changed quite a bit.
[00:23:06.280 --> 00:23:08.680] But the other thing to think about is age.
[00:23:08.680 --> 00:23:11.640] Like, we've been the youngest people in the room by a halfway before.
[00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:15.240] Absolutely, do not age yourself up.
[00:23:15.560 --> 00:23:18.040] Do not apply age up makeup.
[00:23:18.200 --> 00:23:19.880] That's about all the preparation you might need.
[00:23:19.880 --> 00:23:21.000] Then it's a case of heading in.
[00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:22.600] What do you do once you get there?
[00:23:22.600 --> 00:23:24.760] Well, that'll depend on the type of event that it is.
[00:23:24.760 --> 00:23:29.240] It might be a conference type event where it's just a case of sitting and listening to a series of speakers.
[00:23:29.240 --> 00:23:34.280] Personally, in those situations, I consider myself a spectator, especially in the QA.
[00:23:34.280 --> 00:23:40.920] That is definitely not your moment to ask the speaker your super insightful question and put them on the spot because that's just going to blow the whole thing as well.
[00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:45.880] There might be times when there's audience participation in those kinds of things, which is awkward at the best of time.
[00:23:45.880 --> 00:23:52.200] I tend to take a cue from those around me and try to be marginally less enthusiastic than the general vibe.
[00:23:52.520 --> 00:23:56.760] So you're not the keenest and the most eager person there who's going to stand out.
[00:23:56.760 --> 00:24:00.680] But also, you're not so reluctant that you become obstructive or noticeable.
[00:24:00.920 --> 00:24:06.360] So you can get under the radar by sort of gauging the flavor of the room and being just slightly like lower temperature.
[00:24:06.520 --> 00:24:10.120] I mean, frankly, that's just good advice for anything that requires participation.
[00:24:10.120 --> 00:24:18.520] When you have to go to like a working group for work, when you have to like do fucking focus groups or whatever, like anything that requires you to participate.
[00:24:18.520 --> 00:24:20.440] Don't be the most high-energy person in the room.
[00:24:20.440 --> 00:24:22.760] Don't be the most low-energy person in the room.
[00:24:22.760 --> 00:24:27.400] If it is just a conference style event, your interaction with the other attendees will be quite limited.
[00:24:27.400 --> 00:24:28.680] It'll be mostly during the breaks.
[00:24:28.680 --> 00:24:32.760] So try and take those opportunities where you can to spark up a conversation with a stranger.
[00:24:32.760 --> 00:24:35.160] Another reason that Mike doesn't go.
[00:24:35.160 --> 00:24:39.960] People will often be quite keen to talk, especially if they're kind of there by themselves or something.
[00:24:39.960 --> 00:24:45.840] You say this, but you're quite awkward about interacting with strangers at these sorts of events.
[00:24:44.920 --> 00:24:50.320] I know, and it's something I try and get over at times, but there's times I get probably awkward about it.
[00:24:50.560 --> 00:24:52.800] And it's easier to do if you're there on your own.
[00:24:53.040 --> 00:25:03.360] I think it's harder to do if you're there with a friend because you just end up talking to each other and feeling, and also feeling like your friend's judging you for how you go about it, which can sometimes be a bit off-putting.
[00:25:03.360 --> 00:25:08.480] Whereas if you're on your own, you just sit there looking lonely and but looking outwards rather than staring at your phone.
[00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:11.520] And people come to you because they want to chat and tell you their stories.
[00:25:11.520 --> 00:25:14.640] And not often they want to do that because lots of people do attend on their own.
[00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:21.120] And they do that because they're the only person they know who really believes in whatever conspiracy theory or esoteric idea is the theme of the day.
[00:25:21.120 --> 00:25:24.800] In those situations, like a good opener is something like, oh, that was quite interesting.
[00:25:24.800 --> 00:25:25.840] What did you make of it?
[00:25:25.840 --> 00:25:27.600] Or have you seen this speaker speak before?
[00:25:27.680 --> 00:25:29.440] Have you seen this kind of stuff before?
[00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:34.640] And after that, just keep following up with like gently following up with opening questions, very open questions, rather.
[00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:36.480] And that'll invite them to tell you more.
[00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:48.880] And I typically try and occupy a position where I'm interested but don't know a huge amount about it specifically, but I'm keen to learn more because usually people are pretty keen then to inform you and sort of fill that gap.
[00:25:49.040 --> 00:25:50.240] It's active listening, right?
[00:25:50.240 --> 00:25:51.600] Yeah, exactly.
[00:25:51.920 --> 00:25:55.680] Then what about the events that aren't just speakers, but where there are stalls and booths and things?
[00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:58.800] Well, these are great because they're little sample pots of nonsense.
[00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:00.400] It's woo tapas.
[00:26:01.040 --> 00:26:03.360] A little bit of everything kind of going all in one place.
[00:26:03.360 --> 00:26:07.440] This is where your bag will come in handy because you'll pick up everything that's free to take.
[00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:11.840] I try to always kind of approach a booth with quite a friendly, curious expression.
[00:26:11.840 --> 00:26:15.040] Try to approach quite quietly, quite a quiet, understated demeanor.
[00:26:15.040 --> 00:26:17.560] Like, I'm just trying to understand what the booth is.
[00:26:17.560 --> 00:26:18.800] Just kind of interested in checking it out.
[00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:22.400] It's the opposite of what you do at your own trade conference booths.
[00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:24.880] It's where you're just like, I don't want you to talk to me.
[00:26:24.880 --> 00:26:27.360] I just want to see what free merch I can grab.
[00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:30.520] But you're sort of like, you're kind of, you're not forcing yourself on them.
[00:26:30.520 --> 00:26:32.280] You're just kind of walking about that kind of way.
[00:26:32.280 --> 00:26:34.360] Try and check out what sort of thing there is, what they're claiming.
[00:26:29.920 --> 00:26:36.280] Have a skim of the leaflet if you've got the leaflet in your hand.
[00:26:36.760 --> 00:26:47.880] If they try to interrupt you or engage you, you can say that you're curious to find out what it's about, and they'll be desperate to tell you, not least because they believe in this stuff, but also they've paid for that booth and they want to make it worthwhile.
[00:26:47.880 --> 00:26:51.000] So they want to get their money's worth of the table they've got.
[00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:52.760] You're going to get their sales pattern.
[00:26:52.760 --> 00:26:57.240] Bear in mind, this is the sales pattern that persuades the people who believe in them.
[00:26:57.240 --> 00:26:59.720] This is your doorway into that world.
[00:26:59.960 --> 00:27:01.960] You can get a sense of how effective it feels for you.
[00:27:01.960 --> 00:27:02.920] How persuasive is that?
[00:27:02.920 --> 00:27:04.360] What rhetoric are they using?
[00:27:04.360 --> 00:27:06.200] You can listen as that's going.
[00:27:06.200 --> 00:27:08.840] Very much fine to ask follow-up questions at this point.
[00:27:08.840 --> 00:27:17.960] I try to keep them to at the level of what might be the obvious thing to occur to me here, or what might a common sense question be in this moment.
[00:27:17.960 --> 00:27:21.480] I try to avoid questions like, how do you sleep at night?
[00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:29.400] I also try to avoid questions that show that I might know too much, only because I want to keep the conversation flowing.
[00:27:29.400 --> 00:27:31.640] But there are ways of asking things indirectly.
[00:27:31.640 --> 00:27:32.760] You know, how does this work?
[00:27:32.760 --> 00:27:33.560] Oh, that's interesting.
[00:27:33.880 --> 00:27:34.840] Is there evidence for that?
[00:27:34.840 --> 00:27:35.720] Is that proven?
[00:27:35.720 --> 00:27:37.080] How do we know that it's proven?
[00:27:37.080 --> 00:27:38.520] How do they figure that out?
[00:27:38.520 --> 00:27:39.480] See what they say about that.
[00:27:39.480 --> 00:27:42.760] If it's a health thing, you can ask, why don't more people know about this?
[00:27:42.760 --> 00:27:44.360] Why don't doctors use this?
[00:27:44.360 --> 00:27:47.880] Those are the kind of questions, the gentle probing questions that can get you quite far.
[00:27:47.880 --> 00:27:52.280] Try not to get into an argument, not least because it's going to blow your cover before you go to the next table.
[00:27:52.280 --> 00:27:55.160] The next table is going to hear that and it's going to single you out.
[00:27:55.800 --> 00:27:56.920] It is a sales pitch.
[00:27:56.920 --> 00:27:59.160] They might try and press a sale on you at this point.
[00:27:59.160 --> 00:27:59.800] Don't worry about it.
[00:27:59.800 --> 00:28:03.880] You can always hit the ejector seat by saying something like, oh, this is really interesting.
[00:28:03.880 --> 00:28:04.520] Thanks so much.
[00:28:04.520 --> 00:28:07.160] I've got so much more to see, but I might come back later.
[00:28:07.160 --> 00:28:07.720] It's all right.
[00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:09.320] You don't have to come back later.
[00:28:09.320 --> 00:28:11.560] No, they all know that that means I'm not interested.
[00:28:11.560 --> 00:28:12.520] I'm going away now.
[00:28:12.520 --> 00:28:12.840] Yeah, exactly.
[00:28:13.320 --> 00:28:15.000] That is the escape button.
[00:28:15.600 --> 00:28:25.040] It can be useful to have an email address that you don't mind giving to people like that at that point because sometimes they'll sign you up for newsletters and things, which can be useful to get more information.
[00:28:25.040 --> 00:28:26.800] Yeah, if you happen to have one.
[00:28:26.800 --> 00:28:38.800] There are some health claims to look out for, and if the opportunity arises naturally to pull into the conversation, the easiest ones are basic things, allergies, you know, annoying everyday things that are controllable for lots of people with a simple and fairly cheap medicine.
[00:28:38.800 --> 00:28:40.160] Look for those types of things.
[00:28:40.160 --> 00:28:44.560] So, if someone's pushing something as an alternative, that's a good sign that something rum is going on.
[00:28:44.560 --> 00:28:48.160] Why are you pushing an alternative to this thing that's actually really cheap and effective?
[00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:51.280] Above that, there are the kind of conditions that ought to be an immediate red flag.
[00:28:51.280 --> 00:28:55.760] Cancer, obviously, especially in the UK, where it's against the law to advertise cancer cures.
[00:28:55.760 --> 00:29:00.160] If people are nudging and suggesting that something works for cancer, open that door for them.
[00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:03.920] If it feels like that's where they're going, let them go there, give them the space to do that.
[00:29:04.160 --> 00:29:07.680] If they claim to be able to cure cancer, ask, why don't people talk about this more openly?
[00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:09.280] Why don't doctors talk about this?
[00:29:09.280 --> 00:29:10.560] Why don't they advertise this?
[00:29:10.560 --> 00:29:13.440] Let's give them this chance to talk about these things.
[00:29:13.760 --> 00:29:22.400] But generally, I try not to introduce serious ailments unless there's a sign from them that those are claims that they want to make, but feel like they can't for whatever reason.
[00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:29.520] I once saw an Ayurvedic practitioner who claimed their smoothies, I think it was, or some sort of juice drink, would fight diabetes.
[00:29:29.520 --> 00:29:39.040] And that was an opening because I asked, Does it work to prevent diabetes, which can be possible with like lifestyle interventions and stuff, or to cure diabetes?
[00:29:39.040 --> 00:29:41.040] And they said it does both those things.
[00:29:41.360 --> 00:29:42.960] Okay, so it cures diabetes.
[00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:52.720] I know there's two different types of diabetes: there's type two diabetes, which is like acquired diabetes, it comes on during your life, it can be a product of diet and lifestyle and things like that.
[00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:56.800] And then there's type one diabetes, which is a lifelong condition that can't be cured.
[00:29:56.800 --> 00:31:37.120] You've got it for life because your body just does not make insulin yeah so I asked which type of diabetes does it cure and they told me both I actually think they even said three types of diabetes I think they invented a third type of diabetes and I think it also cured that so be tugging at some of the threads that you spot just by doing that I identified that they were claiming a cure and then had them admit that they were trying to cure the incurable at these booths there may be the opportunity to take a free sample of something or to have a free session a free taster session of a therapy or a free go on a machine always accept the free sample though if that free sample is a food or drink that you have to have right there on the spot take a bit of caution and try to assess whether you reckon it to be fine like if it if they say oh this is a kind of chocolate that instead of using this particular bean we put a different ingredient in which makes it super healthy for whatever reason you're probably fine you're probably fine it might taste unpleasant but that's a bonus if anything because the unpleasant tating thing that's part of the experience that you want to get it's probably not going to be harmful we've eaten things like that at the at these of these events you you're screwing your face about this we definitely have i don't recall ever eating anything i think there was a chocolate thing at the get well conference that we went to and there's also someone giving out like a type of coffee like a weird bullshit i think slightly green coffee but it was like coffee made something weird i don't know we we had one anyway but i've also been handed shock glasses of mysterious green liquid from ayurvedic souls at the point when i was very aware that ayurvedic tinctures are tainted with things like heavy metals, and i've had to force myself to learn the lesson to not just drink whatever a kind-eyed and insistent stranger at a booth hands me.
[00:31:37.120 --> 00:31:39.680] Take that lesson from me and politely decline.
[00:31:39.680 --> 00:31:45.920] I mean, last time it twisted your knee all round, it took you eight hours to get that leave that all sorted out, isn't it?
[00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:50.800] On the other hand, taster sessions of therapies and goes on machines, totally different matter.
[00:31:51.120 --> 00:31:52.320] No, they're not.
[00:31:52.320 --> 00:32:01.440] It depends on the therapy and it depends on the individual because there are certain therapies that I would be very wary of, given I know that people can dislocate my joints.
[00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:02.560] Okay, yes, that is very true.
[00:32:02.560 --> 00:32:03.040] That is true.
[00:32:03.040 --> 00:32:08.320] There's like manual, it does manual, yeah, manual therapies like chiropractic I would not have done.
[00:32:08.320 --> 00:32:11.520] But like, if it's other stuff, think of the stories that you're telling.
[00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:14.000] Probably fine, they're not actually going to touch you.
[00:32:14.240 --> 00:32:14.960] Yeah, exactly.
[00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:26.880] Like, you want to be able to tell people about the time that you listened to digitized DNA, or that you had to wear a pyramid hat to channel your energies, or you were giving a 10-minute computer scan to tell you which of 12,000 foodstuffs you're intolerant of and to what degree.
[00:32:26.880 --> 00:32:29.360] Those are the stories that you want to come away with.
[00:32:29.360 --> 00:32:31.600] Lots of these events will be a mix of talks and booths.
[00:32:31.600 --> 00:32:32.720] They're great fun.
[00:32:33.040 --> 00:32:40.000] They allow you to plan your day, get a brochure as early as you can, check out which talks and demonstrations are on at what times, what stands out to you.
[00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:48.880] Be sure to cast a wide net because talk titles can be misleading, and you don't want to miss out on something incredibly weird just because the speaker didn't know how to market themselves.
[00:32:49.120 --> 00:32:51.920] Lots of these people may not know how to market themselves.
[00:32:51.920 --> 00:32:55.840] And typically, you're not forced to sit through an entire talk if you're not interested in it.
[00:32:55.840 --> 00:33:02.240] So, try and find a seat towards the back of the room, relatively near an exit in case it doesn't grab you as weird enough and you want to skip out.
[00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:09.280] But be sure to be close enough that if you do need to grab any photos of anything shocking that happens or interesting that happens, you can still do that.
[00:33:09.280 --> 00:33:13.360] And then, finally, give yourself space to decompress afterwards.
[00:33:13.360 --> 00:33:16.560] It can be really energy-intensive to attend an event like this.
[00:33:16.560 --> 00:33:31.800] And if it goes well, by which I mean if you stumble into something like bonkers or shocking or dangerous, that can leave you a little wired, a little drained, especially if you've got to keep up, you've had to keep up this friendly, open, non-judgmental demeanor throughout the entire thing.
[00:33:29.840 --> 00:33:36.680] And then also bear in mind that you're going to want to let all that out once you get away from the venue.
[00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:39.320] Make sure you're far enough away from the venue.
[00:33:39.320 --> 00:33:44.280] Make sure there's enough distance between you and the event and its audience before you drop the poker face.
[00:33:44.280 --> 00:33:53.560] Because it can be really awkward if you step out of the venue and immediately like rip into your experience of it all, only to realize some of the audience happen to have walked out at the same time as you.
[00:33:53.560 --> 00:33:57.000] And that can just be really awkward, especially if you're planning to go back the next day.
[00:33:57.000 --> 00:33:58.200] That can be incredibly awkward.
[00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:01.480] So try and stay in until you know the course is clear.
[00:34:01.800 --> 00:34:06.600] And then once you've been, you've had this weird experience, the obvious question is, then what?
[00:34:06.600 --> 00:34:07.720] What do you do with that?
[00:34:07.720 --> 00:34:09.160] Well, for me, there's a few things you can do.
[00:34:09.160 --> 00:34:13.320] The first is sit with it and think about it and reflect on your experience and what you've learned.
[00:34:13.320 --> 00:34:15.960] Does it change how you think about these things?
[00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:18.040] How you talk to people about these things in future?
[00:34:18.040 --> 00:34:19.640] How you process them?
[00:34:19.640 --> 00:34:24.440] Obviously, you're going to share the most fun or the shocking kind of or silly or dangerous stories with your friends.
[00:34:24.440 --> 00:34:26.120] And you definitely, definitely should do that.
[00:34:26.120 --> 00:34:27.800] That is the spoils of war.
[00:34:27.800 --> 00:34:28.040] Yes.
[00:34:28.040 --> 00:34:30.520] You know, that is the reward for the effort.
[00:34:30.520 --> 00:34:37.000] Also, take a big look, take a good look rather at that big bag of flyers and leaflets and think about what you were told.
[00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:38.680] How much of that was harmful?
[00:34:38.680 --> 00:34:39.800] What was most concerning?
[00:34:39.800 --> 00:34:44.520] Is there anything in the leaflets that adds to or evidences what you've been told?
[00:34:44.520 --> 00:34:47.960] Some of the leaflets might even include claims that violate regulations.
[00:34:47.960 --> 00:34:53.960] Advertising standards, consumer protection, MHRA, FDA, FTC, etc.
[00:34:54.280 --> 00:34:57.240] It's worth checking how you make a complaint in those situations.
[00:34:57.240 --> 00:35:03.720] Often it's as simple as filling in an online form and attaching an image of a flyer that you've now got a bunch of.
[00:35:04.040 --> 00:35:08.040] And then, of course, you've got your audio recording for evidence of anything else people said in person.
[00:35:08.040 --> 00:35:12.600] So you can listen to that back and type out anything they said that was very relevant to your complaint.
[00:35:12.600 --> 00:35:14.960] Keep all that audio in case you need it too.
[00:35:14.680 --> 00:35:18.240] It could become useful evidence if something goes forward.
[00:35:18.560 --> 00:35:23.920] And then finally, if you've got a really interesting experience or you see something really worth talking about, get in touch with us.
[00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:25.760] We'd be very happy to offer advice.
[00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:27.680] We'd be very happy to cover it in the skeptic.
[00:35:27.680 --> 00:35:29.680] You know, we're always looking for new writers.
[00:35:29.680 --> 00:35:33.360] Editor at skeptic.org.uk if you're interested in pitching something at the magazine.
[00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:34.800] You don't have to be an experienced writer.
[00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:37.920] I'm very happy to help you put your thoughts together and turn it into something.
[00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:39.760] But yeah, by all means, get in touch.
[00:35:39.760 --> 00:35:41.840] This could be a really, really interesting thing.
[00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:45.520] So those are our top tips on attending a Woo event.
[00:35:45.520 --> 00:35:47.200] I hope you all find them useful.
[00:35:47.200 --> 00:35:51.600] And if you do, be sure to let us know because we'd love to hear about your experiences.
[00:35:56.080 --> 00:36:08.960] So when this goes out, I will have just got back from a holiday that I am not going on for three weeks.
[00:36:09.600 --> 00:36:10.960] How's that for a headbuck?
[00:36:10.960 --> 00:36:11.760] So how was the holiday?
[00:36:11.760 --> 00:36:12.400] Would you have fun?
[00:36:12.560 --> 00:36:13.280] You come back?
[00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:14.400] You've got a beautiful tan.
[00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:15.680] You've come back with a beautiful tan.
[00:36:15.680 --> 00:36:16.640] It looks fantastic.
[00:36:16.640 --> 00:36:21.680] I can predict how the holiday goes because I'm going to Northern Cyprus where my parents have a place.
[00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:24.640] So it's a holiday I do regularly often.
[00:36:24.640 --> 00:36:26.720] I'm going with my mum and dad and Warren.
[00:36:26.720 --> 00:36:27.680] So we'll have a lovely time.
[00:36:27.680 --> 00:36:28.400] It'll be very hot.
[00:36:28.400 --> 00:36:29.600] It'll be very sunny.
[00:36:29.600 --> 00:36:30.800] And we'll have some lovely weather.
[00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:32.400] It'll be very nice.
[00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:38.560] I am currently anticipating some potential stress because we booked this holiday a little while ago.
[00:36:38.560 --> 00:36:47.200] We'd been omin and ah in for a while as to whether we were gonna, like, what dates we would go because my parents will go for like six weeks and we'll just like overlap for a little bit of that time.
[00:36:47.200 --> 00:36:51.520] And we were waiting for the flights to go on discount because it gets quite expensive these days.
[00:36:51.520 --> 00:36:53.920] And we were like, omin and ah in.
[00:36:53.920 --> 00:36:58.240] And both Warren and I have been really busy with work recently and a bit burnt out with various things.
[00:36:58.240 --> 00:36:59.120] So we were.
[00:36:59.120 --> 00:37:00.280] Well, not that recently.
[00:36:59.840 --> 00:37:00.920] Well, yeah, yeah.
[00:37:01.160 --> 00:37:11.160] So the admin of booking a holiday, even one that is relatively easy to book because it's going to my parents' place, was stressing us both out.
[00:37:11.160 --> 00:37:14.520] And eventually we sat down, like, okay, we're going to book these dates.
[00:37:14.520 --> 00:37:24.520] And literally, the second I hit confirm, pay, book these tickets, I turned to Warren and I said, um, your mum's around to have the dogs, right?
[00:37:24.520 --> 00:37:26.440] You've checked these dates with your mum.
[00:37:27.720 --> 00:37:31.560] And we realized that we had not checked with Warren's mum.
[00:37:31.560 --> 00:37:38.680] So we called his mum and we immediately found out that she's away not once but twice while we're away for the 10 days that we're on holiday.
[00:37:38.680 --> 00:37:43.240] She's going on two shorter breaks taking her dogs with her.
[00:37:43.240 --> 00:37:49.480] And the number of times we've said to her, please, if you ever book a holiday, let us know because we need to, like, we might not be around.
[00:37:49.480 --> 00:37:51.080] We want to make sure that we can look after your dogs.
[00:37:51.080 --> 00:37:53.160] But because she's taking the dogs with her, she didn't let us know.
[00:37:53.320 --> 00:37:54.760] She didn't need to let us know.
[00:37:54.760 --> 00:37:57.560] Not her responsibility, completely our responsibility.
[00:37:57.560 --> 00:38:02.760] So if you just shoot them both out onto the street, they'll take them Telford for you until you get us through.
[00:38:02.760 --> 00:38:04.360] That is very true.
[00:38:05.160 --> 00:38:09.000] Then they'll definitely give them back because they're both adoptable.
[00:38:09.880 --> 00:38:10.440] I've got the fee.
[00:38:11.160 --> 00:38:12.120] I've got the fee for you.
[00:38:12.120 --> 00:38:12.680] Fuck the fee.
[00:38:12.680 --> 00:38:13.560] Fucking have the fee.
[00:38:15.560 --> 00:38:19.160] So we've spent, Warren has spent a long time trying to figure out an alternative.
[00:38:19.160 --> 00:38:22.040] Obviously, like, they are a handful.
[00:38:22.040 --> 00:38:24.600] Like, both of them are a handful in different ways.
[00:38:24.600 --> 00:38:31.160] It's like looking after a cat is like, I'll make sure it's got food, I'll make sure it's got water, I'll clean its poo, and it might pop in.
[00:38:31.240 --> 00:38:34.280] Over a period of time, I'll just have a body in the house.
[00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:37.480] It's not going to be a physical stress on you.
[00:38:37.480 --> 00:38:50.080] They are, they are a handful, and so it's fine if Warren's mum has them because she's used to dogs and she's, you know, we look after her three dogs whenever she's away, so it's a bit of a tit for tat there.
[00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:52.800] And she's used to dogs, which is the key thing.
[00:38:52.800 --> 00:39:00.560] Most of our friends are cat people, so there's no way I would ask a cat person to come and look after our two particularly naughty dogs.
[00:39:00.560 --> 00:39:11.120] So we've been looking at loads and loads of different options, and we finally found a dog sitter who will she will take them to her home for most of the time.
[00:39:11.120 --> 00:39:13.520] Does she have the appropriate insurance for this?
[00:39:14.080 --> 00:39:17.440] Has she got the appropriate chicken wire around the bottom of the gate?
[00:39:17.440 --> 00:39:22.640] Genuinely, we're already thinking about can we buy her a metal dog crate that could be in the in her flat?
[00:39:22.640 --> 00:39:23.280] She lives in a metal.
[00:39:23.360 --> 00:39:24.720] So Micah destroys stuff.
[00:39:24.720 --> 00:39:25.520] This is the issue.
[00:39:25.520 --> 00:39:35.600] So, so Micah, when left unattended, if something triggers her anxiety, which isn't every time, she will redirect that anxiety towards destruction.
[00:39:35.600 --> 00:39:38.480] And she has quite strong teeth.
[00:39:38.480 --> 00:39:40.320] She has destroyed an entire carpet.
[00:39:40.320 --> 00:39:42.400] She doesn't destroy an entire sofa before.
[00:39:42.400 --> 00:39:43.040] So we now.
[00:39:43.120 --> 00:39:44.480] She could have let her loose into my bathroom.
[00:39:44.480 --> 00:39:46.720] I wouldn't even need to pierce someone to rip those tiles up before.
[00:39:47.040 --> 00:39:52.960] So she now does need, we have at home, we have a reasonably large metal crate because she can get through fabric crates.
[00:39:53.280 --> 00:39:54.720] She's got through a metal crate before.
[00:39:54.720 --> 00:40:02.000] We have a particularly industrial-sized metal crate for her for the short periods of time that she's left home alone, which every full moon.
[00:40:02.160 --> 00:40:04.320] Isn't so often these days because we both work from home.
[00:40:04.560 --> 00:40:10.480] Have you considered one of those Hannibal lecter rats that you can wheel her around in?
[00:40:10.480 --> 00:40:23.840] On a very brief aside, me and Nicola went to see Stuart Lee a couple of weeks ago now, and at one point he asked the audience about, like, he had a whole thing about becoming a werewolf, this kind of to become an alt-right comedian who's like pretending to be a werewolf with this alt-right comedian he turned into.
[00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:27.440] He said, So, everyone's always worried about like, would you become a vampire or a werewolf?
[00:40:27.440 --> 00:40:28.320] That's a question that comes up.
[00:40:28.480 --> 00:40:30.600] He said, You, sir, which would you prefer?
[00:40:30.600 --> 00:40:32.040] And the guy says, A werewolf.
[00:40:32.040 --> 00:40:33.080] He said, Okay, that's interesting.
[00:40:33.080 --> 00:40:33.640] Why?
[00:40:33.640 --> 00:40:41.960] He said, You know, you've got to work a couple of days a month just for the hours.
[00:40:42.280 --> 00:40:55.000] So, she's gonna have them at her apartment with her flatmate for most of the time that she's away, that we're away, but she's a nurse, and so she works, she's got a rotor, and she says, four days that she is working.
[00:40:55.000 --> 00:40:58.520] And the flatmate is a bit sensitive to barking dogs.
[00:40:58.520 --> 00:40:59.720] Oh, my God.
[00:41:00.040 --> 00:41:07.880] So, she's gonna come to our house, bring the dogs to the house, stay at our house for those four days, so the dogs can be also.
[00:41:07.960 --> 00:41:09.480] She's a dog sitting company whilst living in the flat door.
[00:41:10.840 --> 00:41:15.080] She's just a person who does rover type thing for money.
[00:41:15.080 --> 00:41:15.960] Yeah, yeah.
[00:41:15.960 --> 00:41:22.040] So, in many ways, she is doing dog sitting for money whilst living in the flatmate who hates dogs.
[00:41:22.040 --> 00:41:26.680] Doesn't hate dogs, loves dogs, just is a bit sensitive to barking dogs, which is fair enough.
[00:41:27.160 --> 00:41:38.520] So, she's going to come and stay at our house for the days that she's working so that A, the dogs are in familiar surroundings when they're left unattended, which is good, and don't destroy her flat, which is good.
[00:41:38.520 --> 00:41:40.440] And B, doesn't disturb the flatmate.
[00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:46.520] I am having so much anxiety about the fact that Lupin is a fucking escape artist.
[00:41:46.520 --> 00:41:49.640] Yeah, and they're going to be in our house.
[00:41:49.880 --> 00:41:57.800] I'm really worried that A, he's going to get out because obviously he's recently got out when I've been there, and it took me 40 minutes to fucking catch him.
[00:41:58.760 --> 00:42:02.680] But, B, also, like, and I went through the emotional trauma of that.
[00:42:02.680 --> 00:42:08.520] I don't want to put that onto somebody else to have the emotional trauma of I've lost a dog and it's not even my dog.
[00:42:08.520 --> 00:42:09.400] Yeah, yeah.
[00:42:10.040 --> 00:42:12.520] But also, I don't know how to convey that to somebody.
[00:42:12.520 --> 00:42:18.320] Like, how do you convey to a dog sitter, my dogs are awful, without putting them off looking after your dog?
[00:42:18.640 --> 00:42:19.920] That is a good question.
[00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:21.040] That is a good question.
[00:42:21.040 --> 00:42:49.760] I'm going to have to give her a really big list of information for how to keep Micah from being too anxious and help manage her anxiety, but also make sure that Lupin doesn't think you're a soft touch and can get away with getting running out of the front door or stealing your the food that you left on the table for just 30 seconds because he knows how to get onto the table or like any of the things that we have learned having these two nightmare dogs.
[00:42:51.360 --> 00:42:54.960] They are great dogs, listeners, but they are a handful.
[00:42:54.960 --> 00:43:03.280] So send us all your luck that the dogs don't just send our dog sitter into absolute despair.
[00:43:03.280 --> 00:43:06.080] Yeah, she's gonna retire from dog sitting at the end of this.
[00:43:06.080 --> 00:43:09.440] She says she's had dogs that are a handful before.
[00:43:09.680 --> 00:43:10.640] How big a hand?
[00:43:10.640 --> 00:43:13.280] Because and it's two dogs.
[00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:14.640] She's only got two hands.
[00:43:14.640 --> 00:43:23.120] It's a yeah, and it's the fact that they are difficult in diametrically opposed ways sometimes.
[00:43:23.680 --> 00:43:26.480] It's a classic like a big man, little man striker combo, basically.
[00:43:26.560 --> 00:43:28.960] So you want them to compliment each other.
[00:43:28.960 --> 00:43:31.920] Lupin has taken to more recently, Lupin never barks.
[00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:35.200] I must have said this on the show before, before, Lupin never barks.
[00:43:35.200 --> 00:43:37.840] He is not a barky dog at all.
[00:43:37.840 --> 00:43:44.880] And to the point that, like, I've trained him the command speak, and he will bark on command, but he really hates doing it.
[00:43:44.880 --> 00:43:50.720] So you will say to him, speak, and he'll kind of like just gesture as if he's going to bark, but then doesn't.
[00:43:50.720 --> 00:43:54.080] And it'll take him four or five times to work up to actually barking.
[00:43:54.080 --> 00:44:01.400] Recently, he's decided that anytime he wants anything, he'll just bark at Micah.
[00:43:59.440 --> 00:44:02.440] He just tells her off.
[00:44:02.760 --> 00:44:13.480] I think it's because he wants to sit in the spot that she sat in, but he's too scared to share because she can be a bit territorial sometimes.
[00:44:13.480 --> 00:44:19.960] So he shouts at her until she gets up to like play fight with him, and then he just goes and sits in the spot that she was in.
[00:44:20.280 --> 00:44:21.800] He's trying to game Micah.
[00:44:21.800 --> 00:44:22.520] Wow.
[00:44:26.680 --> 00:44:30.120] So, QED tickets for QED are still on sale.
[00:44:30.120 --> 00:44:33.160] You can find more information about that at qedcon.org.
[00:44:33.160 --> 00:44:35.480] Tickets are £179.
[00:44:35.480 --> 00:44:36.680] And that gets you everything.
[00:44:36.680 --> 00:44:38.360] That gets you access to the full event.
[00:44:38.360 --> 00:44:42.360] We don't do any added extras or bonuses or anything along those lines.
[00:44:42.360 --> 00:44:46.440] You can keep up to date on the latest announcements of QED at QEDCon.org.
[00:44:46.440 --> 00:44:48.200] QED also has a Blue Sky account now.
[00:44:48.200 --> 00:44:49.320] This was new for this year.
[00:44:49.320 --> 00:44:52.760] We did Twitter last year, but we've added the Blue Sky account this year.
[00:44:52.760 --> 00:44:56.280] So for listeners who are on Blue Sky, that's QEDCon.
[00:44:56.280 --> 00:45:02.280] In fact, I think it's at QDCon.org now, I think, is where we've put it rather than the BSky.social.
[00:45:02.520 --> 00:45:05.880] So I think that's at QEDCon.org on Blue Sky.
[00:45:05.880 --> 00:45:07.640] And also, the three of us are on Blue Sky as well.
[00:45:08.200 --> 00:45:08.920] You can find us there.
[00:45:08.920 --> 00:45:10.360] And the show is on Blue Sky.
[00:45:10.360 --> 00:45:22.680] And speaking of QED, we might even, we're toying with putting out some audio from QED on this feed so that listeners to this feed could get access to some of the conversations that are happening in the panel room on QED.
[00:45:22.680 --> 00:45:27.480] I wonder, listen, would you be up for that if occasionally you got dropped in a little bit of a QED panel as a bonus?
[00:45:27.480 --> 00:45:33.320] So not in the middle of regular shows, just on the regular feed, just an episode where you get to hear a bonus.
[00:45:33.200 --> 00:45:36.440] A bonus for a little free bonus just for being listeners.
[00:45:36.760 --> 00:45:37.880] So, yeah, let us know.
[00:45:37.880 --> 00:45:40.600] Podcast at merseyside skeptics.org.uk.
[00:45:40.600 --> 00:45:45.040] Actually, I think podcast at skepticswithakay.org works as well.
[00:45:45.040 --> 00:45:47.200] Now, I'll have to double-check that.
[00:45:47.200 --> 00:45:48.800] I think it's in the outro.
[00:45:48.800 --> 00:45:49.360] I said it.
[00:45:49.360 --> 00:45:50.160] I read it out.
[00:45:50.160 --> 00:45:51.120] I don't fucking remember.
[00:45:44.920 --> 00:45:51.840] Listen to yourself.
[00:45:52.480 --> 00:45:56.640] Listen to the theme tune in about 30 seconds' time, and then you'll know what email address to send to.
[00:45:56.640 --> 00:46:00.080] But let us know, podcast at whatever the fucking domain name happens to be.
[00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:03.440] So, yeah, listeners, you should definitely come along to QD.
[00:46:03.440 --> 00:46:04.480] It's going to be a fantastic time.
[00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:07.120] It's going to be the last opportunity you get to come to QD.
[00:46:07.120 --> 00:46:09.760] Go to the qdcon.org for more information.
[00:46:09.760 --> 00:46:10.160] Yep.
[00:46:10.160 --> 00:46:12.640] Aside from that, then I think that is all we have time for.
[00:46:12.640 --> 00:46:13.280] I think it is.
[00:46:13.280 --> 00:46:15.840] Quite literally, actually, because we've been recording forever.
[00:46:15.840 --> 00:46:16.480] This has been a long time.
[00:46:16.640 --> 00:46:18.720] This has been a long recording session.
[00:46:18.720 --> 00:46:23.200] It is now way past my tea time and not far from my bedtime.
[00:46:23.840 --> 00:46:26.320] All that remains is we thank Marsh for coming along today.
[00:46:26.320 --> 00:46:26.880] Cheers.
[00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:28.160] Thank you very much to Alice.
[00:46:28.160 --> 00:46:28.640] Thank you.
[00:46:28.640 --> 00:46:31.360] We have been Skeptics with a K, and we will see you next time.
[00:46:31.360 --> 00:46:32.000] Bye now.
[00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:33.040] Bye.
[00:46:37.840 --> 00:46:42.880] Skeptics with a K is produced by Skeptic Media in association with the Merseyside Skeptic Society.
[00:46:42.880 --> 00:46:51.920] For questions or comments, email podcast at skepticswithakay.org and you can find out more about Merseyside Skeptics at merseyside skeptics.org.uk.