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[00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:03.200] I chose FDU for my education for numerous reasons.
[00:00:03.200 --> 00:00:12.000] The first being the great reputation that the Silverman College of Business has, the amazing culture with the faculty and staff, and also the very convenient location to New York City.
[00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:16.320] I seized the moment at FDU and now I'm in the career of my dreams.
[00:00:16.320 --> 00:00:21.840] Ford was built on the belief that the world doesn't get to decide what you're capable of.
[00:00:21.840 --> 00:00:22.560] You do.
[00:00:22.880 --> 00:00:26.320] So ask yourself, can you or can't you?
[00:00:26.320 --> 00:00:31.120] Can you load up a Ford F-150 and build your dream with sweat and steel?
[00:00:31.120 --> 00:00:34.880] Can you chase thrills and conquer curves in a Mustang?
[00:00:34.880 --> 00:00:39.280] Can you take a Bronco to where the map ends and adventure begins?
[00:00:39.280 --> 00:00:43.360] Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right.
[00:00:43.360 --> 00:00:46.320] Ready, set, Ford.
[00:00:46.640 --> 00:00:49.440] They say that home is where the heart is.
[00:00:49.440 --> 00:00:55.040] Maybe that's why so many fall in love with Big Pine Key and Florida's Lower Keys.
[00:00:55.040 --> 00:01:09.440] With epic ocean views, unspoiled wilderness, sandy beaches, abundant wildlife, RV resorts, and Stock Island's rustic charm, Florida's Lower Keys don't skip a beat.
[00:01:09.760 --> 00:01:15.360] For more about the Lower Keys, visit flakeys.com slash lower keys.
[00:01:22.720 --> 00:01:31.280] It is Thursday, the 29th of May, 2025, and you're listening to Skeptics with a K, the podcast for science, reason, and critical thinking.
[00:01:31.280 --> 00:01:42.160] Skeptics with a K is produced by Skeptic Media in association with the Merseyside Skeptic Society, a non-profit organization for the promotion of scientific skepticism on Merseyside around the UK and internationally.
[00:01:42.160 --> 00:01:43.520] I'm your host, Mike Hall.
[00:01:43.520 --> 00:01:44.880] With me today is Marsh.
[00:01:44.880 --> 00:01:45.360] Hello.
[00:01:45.360 --> 00:01:46.080] And Alice.
[00:01:46.080 --> 00:01:47.040] Hello.
[00:01:47.680 --> 00:01:49.920] So we've been doing this podcast for a long time.
[00:01:49.920 --> 00:01:51.440] We have been doing it for a long time.
[00:01:51.440 --> 00:01:52.800] It's a little while now.
[00:01:52.800 --> 00:02:00.200] Since we started in 2009 and I joined in 2013, we have recorded almost 420 episodes.
[00:02:00.200 --> 00:02:01.560] And half of them mention Doctor Who.
[00:02:01.560 --> 00:02:03.160] Half of them mentioned Doctor Who.
[00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:07.160] We only say cunt on 22 of them, I think it is.
[00:02:07.320 --> 00:02:07.880] 23.
[00:02:09.800 --> 00:02:14.680] That is because there was a time that we made a concerted decision to stop using that word on the show.
[00:02:14.680 --> 00:02:15.000] Oh, really?
[00:02:15.160 --> 00:02:17.000] Even though we, do you not remember this conversation?
[00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:29.720] So we'd had, because we have a broad international listenership, we'd said, look, this isn't that bad a word in the UK, but in the States, it is not only is it taken in a different way, but it's also quite a gendered insult.
[00:02:29.720 --> 00:02:34.120] And so we made the concerted decision that we would avoid using it for that reason.
[00:02:34.120 --> 00:02:35.960] I think you might have been the last person to say it before me.
[00:02:39.560 --> 00:02:45.880] So it was, that is a decision that we have made, is that we don't, we tend to avoid it, even though we use it in our day-to-day life all the time.
[00:02:46.120 --> 00:02:46.600] All the time.
[00:02:46.600 --> 00:02:47.480] All the time.
[00:02:48.120 --> 00:02:57.560] So we have collectively spent thousands of hours identifying, investigating, researching, and writing about hundreds of sceptical topics for over a decade.
[00:02:57.560 --> 00:03:01.000] And that means we've seen hundreds of trends come and go.
[00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:11.240] And a wellness industry that has doubled in size were 3.4 trillion in 2013 and 6.8 trillion in 2023, according to the Global Wellness Institute.
[00:03:11.560 --> 00:03:18.440] Who are motivation in making it seem larger than others, but it's still massive.
[00:03:18.440 --> 00:03:19.080] We know it's massive.
[00:03:19.080 --> 00:03:19.960] We know it's massive.
[00:03:19.960 --> 00:03:24.280] You'll occasionally hear us predicting what might catch on, what might be a passing fad.
[00:03:24.280 --> 00:03:31.480] We'll speculate on where apparent trends are merely social media manipulation and where others are reflecting a change in social preferences.
[00:03:31.480 --> 00:03:47.040] And while some would argue that science and skepticism shouldn't be political, that evidence should matter to people from the whole political spectrum, it's clear in 2025 that politics and skepticism, or more importantly, politics and myths and disinformation, are as intrinsically linked as ever.
[00:03:47.040 --> 00:03:47.760] Yeah, yeah.
[00:03:47.760 --> 00:03:52.880] And I don't think that's a new thing, like, you know, propaganda is just what we used to call disinformation, right?
[00:03:52.880 --> 00:03:53.520] Yeah.
[00:03:53.520 --> 00:04:01.440] We've gone from focusing on ghost stories and homeopathy and psychics to talking about the rise in conspiracism, radicalization, and the alt-right.
[00:04:01.520 --> 00:04:02.080] Hate it.
[00:04:02.160 --> 00:04:03.360] Hate it so much.
[00:04:03.360 --> 00:04:07.120] I wish we didn't have to talk about it because it just bothers me.
[00:04:07.120 --> 00:04:08.640] Like, it really bothers me.
[00:04:08.640 --> 00:04:10.720] But also, it's the end of skepticism.
[00:04:10.720 --> 00:04:12.480] I find so fucking dull.
[00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:15.040] But no, this is where the world is now.
[00:04:15.040 --> 00:04:16.560] So that's what we have to deal with.
[00:04:17.280 --> 00:04:18.000] I don't find it dull.
[00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:18.640] I find it really interesting.
[00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:19.920] I know you fucking love it.
[00:04:19.920 --> 00:04:23.840] You're nuts, but I know you adore it, but it's just not my bag at all.
[00:04:24.160 --> 00:04:25.520] Pick the puzzle of it.
[00:04:25.520 --> 00:04:26.080] Yeah.
[00:04:26.080 --> 00:04:39.200] And sometimes we'll finish a recording session and one of us will apologise to the others for going on a particular rant, for talking extensively about a downward spiral, which is particularly negative and not conducive for the light conversational style that we usually aim for on the show.
[00:04:39.200 --> 00:04:50.480] Usually it's Marsh who's been tracking some of these topics more closely over a longer period of time, but it's becoming clear that these sorts of topics are permeating every aspect of the online world and into the real world too.
[00:04:50.480 --> 00:04:51.280] We can't avoid it.
[00:04:51.280 --> 00:04:54.000] We have to get in on talking about these topics.
[00:04:54.000 --> 00:05:02.720] We talk a lot about the harm of social media and it definitely feels like the harm has amplified even more recently, certainly in the last 18 months.
[00:05:03.040 --> 00:05:10.320] And there's an entire lexicon dedicated to understanding the impact it might have on our social and mental health, including the concept of doom scrolling.
[00:05:10.320 --> 00:05:15.040] But to some extent, obviously, engaging with social media is part of the work that we have to do.
[00:05:15.040 --> 00:05:24.000] Scrolling the various platforms is how we see those trends rising in real time and how we can get a feel for what's meaningful to the directionality and what's just noise.
[00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:36.440] We've kind of spent a lot of time thinking about and engaging with these topics such that we now have like that spidey sense of what's relevant, what's worth picking up on, and what's probably just going to disappear into the background.
[00:05:36.760 --> 00:05:39.720] I consume a lot of wellness and diet-related content.
[00:05:39.720 --> 00:05:43.240] Those are some of my particular areas of interest when it comes to skepticism.
[00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:51.560] And one thing I've noticed of late is something that can seem like a passing comment, a passing mention to the dangers of a particular item.
[00:05:51.560 --> 00:05:58.040] In the TikTok world of micro trends, sometimes it's these passing comments that I think really indicate the macro trends.
[00:05:58.040 --> 00:05:58.440] Yeah.
[00:05:58.440 --> 00:06:15.160] So if you've got micro trends that appear and disappear like as quickly as a wave breaking, you can then see if you've got multiple micro trends which make a passing reference to one unifying other trend, it can suggest that the passing reference is something that's catching on in a bigger way.
[00:06:15.160 --> 00:06:21.960] It can be that indicator that there's a thing that is unifying everybody and it's filtering into all of these micro trends.
[00:06:21.960 --> 00:06:26.280] Yeah, it's almost like, and I think this came up on the Skeptic in the Pub Discord recently.
[00:06:26.280 --> 00:06:30.680] It's almost like all of the woos get together and decide what the topic of the week is.
[00:06:30.680 --> 00:06:31.080] Yeah.
[00:06:31.080 --> 00:06:34.440] And they all pivot all at once and suddenly that's the thing that's everywhere.
[00:06:34.440 --> 00:06:35.400] Exactly.
[00:06:35.400 --> 00:06:44.120] And it's sometimes hard for us to articulate how the skeptical spidey sensors work, but sometimes we come across something that just feels like there's something more to it.
[00:06:44.120 --> 00:06:48.760] And for me recently, it was the ubiquity of comments demonizing seed oils.
[00:06:48.760 --> 00:06:51.800] And even that terminology is quite interesting to me.
[00:06:51.800 --> 00:07:09.240] So I first came across the choice of cooking fats being a priority in the nutritional world several years ago as part of an educational weight loss program, which aims to build healthy habits and to encourage a healthy relationship with food without the typical diet method of restricting or removing certain food types from your diet.
[00:07:09.240 --> 00:07:16.080] They suggest that cooking oils can be split into three categories: refined, virgin, or extra virgin, or cold-pressed.
[00:07:16.080 --> 00:07:19.920] I never quite know what the difference between virgin and extra virgin is.
[00:07:20.240 --> 00:07:22.800] It's processing, it's all about how it's processed, basically.
[00:07:22.880 --> 00:07:25.600] So, is extra virgin like ultra-processed?
[00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:27.040] No, I think the opposite.
[00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:28.560] Ah, less processed.
[00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:33.920] So, refined is more processed, virgin is more processed than an extra virgin, and extra virgin is less processed.
[00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:37.440] Like super virgins, you just get given a sesame.
[00:07:37.840 --> 00:07:38.560] There is a sesame.
[00:07:38.640 --> 00:07:39.600] There's a seed.
[00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:42.000] What does a sesame seed grow into?
[00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:43.360] A sesame plant.
[00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:43.760] Does it?
[00:07:43.760 --> 00:07:44.640] Because have you ever seen one?
[00:07:44.640 --> 00:07:45.520] I ever heard of one?
[00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:47.360] Where did we get sesame seeds from?
[00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:48.720] That's very much the question.
[00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:54.720] Unless sesame seeds are maybe as a seed form, they take this name, but when it grows, it's like a fucking pumpkin or something.
[00:07:54.720 --> 00:07:56.000] That's pumpkin seeds.
[00:07:56.960 --> 00:07:58.960] To the point.
[00:07:59.280 --> 00:08:00.880] No one's ever had a sesame.
[00:08:00.880 --> 00:08:02.720] Apart from Aladdin, he opened a sesame.
[00:08:02.720 --> 00:08:03.520] He did.
[00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:15.280] So they argued that extra virgin or cold-pressed oils have undergone less processing and therefore have more nutrients and fewer polyunsaturated fatty acid chains.
[00:08:15.280 --> 00:08:20.560] They reckon that more polyunsaturated fatty acids leads to more inflammation.
[00:08:20.560 --> 00:08:32.560] That's interesting because I remember late 80s, early 90s when every brand of kind of butter-type spread was going on about how it was high in polyunsaturate and low in saturated fat.
[00:08:32.560 --> 00:08:34.640] Which is because that was the health trend at the time.
[00:08:36.080 --> 00:08:45.920] They weren't necessarily critical of vegetable oils in particular because of the source, only that those oils are more likely to be refined and go through that refining process.
[00:08:45.920 --> 00:08:54.400] This they backed up with a detailed explanation of fatty acid chains and nods towards studies which they claimed back them up, but no specific citations.
[00:08:54.720 --> 00:09:01.720] They did comment that vegetable oil was possibly a bit of a useless label because very few vegetables are actually used to make cooking oils.
[00:09:01.720 --> 00:09:04.920] It's predominantly seeds, grains, or legumes.
[00:09:04.920 --> 00:09:19.640] But this story about cooking oil choice was a small part of a much wider program examining habit formation and food relationships, including the idea that a sustainable diet has to incorporate the things we love instead of restricting things we consider unhealthy.
[00:09:19.640 --> 00:09:25.880] Diet is the kind of what you eat big picture, not a thing that you go on in order to change something.
[00:09:26.520 --> 00:09:40.520] This particular programme also talked about how adding fat to the diet is really important, that including a portion of ideally healthy fat in each meal alongside a source of protein can help us feel more satisfied from a meal and reduce our need to snack or eat in excess.
[00:09:40.520 --> 00:09:50.520] It's a lesson that a lot of the intuitive eaters on social media will promote that instead of restricting certain food types, find ways to add to them to make a snack or meal more balanced or filling.
[00:09:50.520 --> 00:09:54.600] So say you really fancy some tortilla chips as a late afternoon snack.
[00:09:54.600 --> 00:10:02.840] Maybe you can add some Greek yogurt that you can dip your chips in for a bit of protein and some avocado for some healthy fat and now it's a more satisfying rounded meal.
[00:10:03.480 --> 00:10:09.960] The idea is that nothing is off limits, but if you want to eat less of a particular thing, just telling yourself to stick to willpower isn't usually sustainable.
[00:10:10.600 --> 00:10:13.320] As soon as you're tired or grumpy, your willpower drops.
[00:10:13.320 --> 00:10:24.280] And the theory is it's much easier to stick to a healthier eating model if you're not denying yourself the things you love and you're finding ways to make them more satisfying so you don't inhale a whole family-sized bag of tortilla chips without even noticing.
[00:10:24.280 --> 00:10:25.480] Full tuba Pringles.
[00:10:25.480 --> 00:10:26.360] That's where I go wrong.
[00:10:26.760 --> 00:10:27.240] I'll just.
[00:10:27.560 --> 00:10:30.200] Once I pop, you just oddly enough.
[00:10:30.680 --> 00:10:31.960] I am unable to stop.
[00:10:32.200 --> 00:10:37.560] I'm not really a big sort of crisps eater apart from when we get together and have drinks and hang out together.
[00:10:37.560 --> 00:10:38.440] And it's mindless, yeah.
[00:10:38.440 --> 00:10:39.800] And this is like, oh, there's crisps there.
[00:10:39.800 --> 00:10:40.680] Oh, there's crisps there.
[00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:44.800] The problem is, I have like a completionist mentality of like, oh, I can't leave stuff.
[00:10:44.800 --> 00:10:45.680] So, you know.
[00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:48.720] You've got to feel, you've got to get to the end-level boss of crisps.
[00:10:44.840 --> 00:10:50.960] Yeah, but I also have it with like food in the house.
[00:10:51.200 --> 00:10:57.200] Not in the sense I have to eat, but it's like if there's anything there that's like, oh, well, I'm going to have to eat that at some point.
[00:10:57.600 --> 00:10:58.320] There's no food with it.
[00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:00.000] So there's no time like the present.
[00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:09.120] No, of course it's like, well, what I'm going to have for lunch today, oh, well, we've only got the ends of this and the ends of that, so I'm guessing I'm eating that rather than I could have the other thing over here that's nice.
[00:11:09.120 --> 00:11:10.080] That's an opened.
[00:11:10.320 --> 00:11:16.320] But then the problem is then Nicola will have the nice thing as an opened, and I'll just end up like eating the scraggy ends of everything all the time.
[00:11:16.640 --> 00:11:25.360] No, I love a tube of Pringles, but every so often you can tell when the Pringles factory is running short on flavouring because you buy a tube of Pringles and it's like, there's no fucking flavour on any of these.
[00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:30.480] You're just giving me reconstituted potato here and then telling me this is Crisps.
[00:11:30.800 --> 00:11:32.080] I buy it for the flavour.
[00:11:32.240 --> 00:11:33.920] The Crisp is the flavor delivery method.
[00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:34.800] It's the delivery system.
[00:11:35.120 --> 00:11:36.160] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:11:36.160 --> 00:11:39.840] So I'm not passing comments specifically on whether these approaches are useful or not.
[00:11:39.840 --> 00:11:42.880] I think diet's very personal and we have to figure out what works for us.
[00:11:42.880 --> 00:11:44.160] But this is some of the context.
[00:11:44.160 --> 00:11:55.600] We have people offering a balanced position that is moving away from demonizing certain food groups and supporting sustainability and education, claiming to empower people to make healthy choices without fear mongering.
[00:11:55.600 --> 00:12:01.920] Some of those balanced positions are subtly smuggling in some fear-mongering, but that's not the topic for today.
[00:12:01.920 --> 00:12:03.760] That's a topic for another time.
[00:12:03.760 --> 00:12:07.920] In the meantime, social media has taken these sorts of concepts and built on them.
[00:12:07.920 --> 00:12:15.440] And now we've ratcheted up from cooking oil choice might be relevant to how we build our diet to seed oils are evil.
[00:12:15.440 --> 00:12:16.320] Yeah, yeah.
[00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:25.040] And we've moved from avoiding extreme fat restriction can be helpful when it comes to eating healthily in a sustainable way to animal fat is amazing, is the answer to all of our problems.
[00:12:25.040 --> 00:12:30.760] Every time you see you say seed oils, in my head, I picture an Irish bar, like seed dot dot doils.
[00:12:31.240 --> 00:12:33.080] I feel like, oh, seed oil has a lot better.
[00:12:33.080 --> 00:12:35.800] There's a lovely atmosphere in there, but you don't go in there on St.
[00:12:29.920 --> 00:12:36.200] Patrick's Day.
[00:12:36.440 --> 00:12:39.320] It's strange that it's become scored then.
[00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:42.520] It's become the phrase that we use now instead of vegetable oil.
[00:12:42.680 --> 00:12:43.720] It used to be vegetable oils.
[00:12:44.520 --> 00:12:46.840] I had no idea that those two things were in any way related.
[00:12:46.920 --> 00:12:47.800] They were the same thing.
[00:12:47.800 --> 00:12:50.760] I thought vegetable oils would just squeeze a potato hard enough.
[00:12:51.080 --> 00:12:54.680] Well, vegetable oils usually are quite often sunflower oil or rapeseed oil, right?
[00:12:54.680 --> 00:12:56.280] So they're from seeds.
[00:12:56.280 --> 00:13:05.160] So I don't know if the Americans use seed oil more naturally or if that's a change in how the language is peanut oil, I think in the US as well.
[00:13:05.560 --> 00:13:06.280] But that's not a seed.
[00:13:06.440 --> 00:13:07.720] It's like a can or something.
[00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:11.080] Well, there's canola oil, but I think canola oil is rapeseed oil.
[00:13:11.160 --> 00:13:13.080] Canola oil is rapeseed oil, yes.
[00:13:13.720 --> 00:13:15.000] We just typically rape seed oil.
[00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:16.440] We call all of those things vegetable.
[00:13:16.600 --> 00:13:17.080] Vegetable oil.
[00:13:17.240 --> 00:13:20.200] Yeah, so peanut oil would be a type of vegetable oil.
[00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:25.560] We'd only specify if we specifically needed gran oil or peanut oil.
[00:13:25.560 --> 00:13:31.080] I think five guys quite famously say all their stuff is peanut oil, which is why they have loose peanuts all over the shop.
[00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:31.560] Yes.
[00:13:31.560 --> 00:13:33.160] It's not because that's where they get the oil from.
[00:13:33.160 --> 00:13:35.080] It's to tell people peanut electrons peanut oil.
[00:13:35.240 --> 00:13:36.280] Don't fucking come in.
[00:13:37.080 --> 00:13:38.840] Everything in here is made of peanuts.
[00:13:38.840 --> 00:13:42.360] I thought they were just bolsting about what easy access they have to peanuts.
[00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:50.600] Take, for example, Troy Casey, certified health nut, his description, not mine.
[00:13:50.920 --> 00:13:51.400] Peanut oil.
[00:13:51.560 --> 00:13:52.360] Who says?
[00:13:53.320 --> 00:13:54.840] Do you make oil out of him?
[00:13:54.840 --> 00:13:59.400] He says, seed oils are industrial oils designed to help lubricate machine equipment.
[00:13:59.400 --> 00:14:04.760] He says canola is a genetically engineered modified plant, a bit of a redundant word in there.
[00:14:04.760 --> 00:14:11.000] And that these things are known as poofers, polyunsaturated fatty acids, which wreak havoc in the body and create imbalances.
[00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:12.920] I don't think you can call them out anymore.
[00:14:12.920 --> 00:14:18.400] I have only in the last few days seen the word poofer appearing to refer to polyunsaturated fatty acids.
[00:14:14.920 --> 00:14:20.400] Literally, only in the last few days I've seen that.
[00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:23.440] I've never, so I've come across it before.
[00:14:23.440 --> 00:14:26.080] It's an initialism I've come across before.
[00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:29.120] I've never seen it used as an acronym.
[00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:31.920] I've never seen it said as a word.
[00:14:31.920 --> 00:14:34.880] Do you think Americans pronounce it poofer and we should pronounce it pufa?
[00:14:34.880 --> 00:14:36.000] Like puma.
[00:14:38.080 --> 00:14:41.920] He says that these poofers, I do believe, are omega-6.
[00:14:41.920 --> 00:14:47.280] And so when the vegetables are up and the omega-3s or the meats are down, that creates imbalance in the system.
[00:14:47.280 --> 00:14:49.520] It can gum up our tissues.
[00:14:49.840 --> 00:14:54.800] He claims it's important to boost omega-3s, which then lower inflammation because we used to hunt and gather.
[00:14:54.800 --> 00:14:57.440] So this is more back to that way of life.
[00:14:57.440 --> 00:15:04.000] Meanwhile, Reviva coach Brian with a Y says these supposedly heart-healthy fats are not good for us at all.
[00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:12.160] He says this is because they're polyunsaturated fats and therefore they're very unstable and prone to oxidizing in our body, which he claims causes increased aging.
[00:15:12.160 --> 00:15:13.600] What's the alternative?
[00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:20.560] Brian says to cook with more butter, animal fats or coconut oils because these are saturated fats, which means they are more stable.
[00:15:20.560 --> 00:15:24.720] It's funny because this is diametrically opposite to the way things flipped.
[00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:32.880] Again, around late 80s, early 90s, when suddenly saturated animal fat was the worst thing you could have in the world and everything went polyunsaturated.
[00:15:32.880 --> 00:15:42.400] What's bad about that in particular is people will come away with the, well, science can't make its mind up because I remember growing up it was saturated fats are bad and now I'm being told that unsaturated fats are bad.
[00:15:42.880 --> 00:15:43.520] And I've seen videos.
[00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:45.520] Science, that's not making its mind up here.
[00:15:45.520 --> 00:15:49.440] Videos where people have been saying that we've just, we've been lied to for decades.
[00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:54.240] We've been lied to because we've been told that like big oil.
[00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:54.880] Not that big oil.
[00:15:55.760 --> 00:15:57.120] Big vegetable oil.
[00:15:57.440 --> 00:16:05.000] Revival coach Brian comments that polyunsaturated cooking oils have been promoted as healthy, while saturated fats labeled as unhealthy.
[00:16:05.320 --> 00:16:11.080] But he says it's the wrong way around and we've been lied to for decades, which is why we're seeing a decline in the health of the population.
[00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:12.600] So eat more lard.
[00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:13.400] Eat more lard.
[00:16:13.400 --> 00:16:14.920] More lard, more butter.
[00:16:14.920 --> 00:16:15.960] Beef tallow.
[00:16:16.440 --> 00:16:17.720] They bloody love beef tallow.
[00:16:17.800 --> 00:16:19.160] They bloody love the beef tallow.
[00:16:19.320 --> 00:16:20.200] They bloody do that.
[00:16:20.200 --> 00:16:22.680] All the trad wives, they're really into the beef tallow as well.
[00:16:22.920 --> 00:16:24.840] We'll come back to trad wives.
[00:16:24.840 --> 00:16:28.120] So, meanwhile, on the TikTok account, Total Health with Dr.
[00:16:28.120 --> 00:16:28.840] Nick, Dr.
[00:16:28.840 --> 00:16:29.400] Nick says...
[00:16:29.480 --> 00:16:29.640] Dr.
[00:16:29.720 --> 00:16:30.120] Nick.
[00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:30.440] Yeah.
[00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:31.640] Like off the Simpsons.
[00:16:32.680 --> 00:16:33.800] Don't call yourself Dr.
[00:16:33.800 --> 00:16:34.120] Nick.
[00:16:35.160 --> 00:16:35.400] Dr.
[00:16:35.400 --> 00:16:36.200] Nick is ruined.
[00:16:36.520 --> 00:16:36.920] Dr.
[00:16:36.920 --> 00:16:38.360] Nicholas, golfer or Dr.
[00:16:38.360 --> 00:16:41.080] Nicola, depending on who you are, but do not go for a Dr.
[00:16:41.080 --> 00:16:41.400] Nick.
[00:16:41.400 --> 00:16:41.640] Dr.
[00:16:41.640 --> 00:16:42.440] Nicky.
[00:16:42.440 --> 00:16:42.760] Dr.
[00:16:42.760 --> 00:16:47.240] Nick says that seed oils are super high in omega-6, and that's the reason that they're super inflammatory.
[00:16:47.240 --> 00:16:49.880] But omega-3 fats are anti-inflammatory.
[00:16:49.880 --> 00:17:00.840] His issue is that seed ores are apparently produced using dangerous methods using hexane and heat and pressure, which he says denatures the oil, making it rancid and therefore it's inflammatory to the body.
[00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:11.400] Not sure how the key factor here can both be the presence of omega-6 and that the oil has literally gone off, but that's what happens when we misattribute science and justify our weird beliefs.
[00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:11.800] Dr.
[00:17:11.800 --> 00:17:19.560] Nick goes further, insisting that seed oils stay in your body because cell membranes are made of fat and the fat gets into the membranes, making those cells toxic.
[00:17:19.560 --> 00:17:20.120] Okay.
[00:17:20.120 --> 00:17:20.440] Dr.
[00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:28.360] Nick thinks instead we should be using tallow from beef, lard, avocado oil, olive oil, coconut oil, or ghee, which is a clarified butter.
[00:17:28.680 --> 00:17:36.200] Other influencers, however, I think that olive oil is bad because it's often cut with seed oils, or else that olive oil is only fine if you're not heating it.
[00:17:36.200 --> 00:17:38.520] So, if you're using it on salad dressings and things.
[00:17:38.520 --> 00:17:46.000] I mean, you can tell that this is true and accurate and real because of the massive drop in life expectancy we've had over the last 30 years.
[00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:46.480] Yeah, exactly.
[00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:50.080] When we've suddenly started consuming an awful lot of it, hang on, that isn't true, is it?
[00:17:44.840 --> 00:17:51.200] None of that is actually the case.
[00:17:51.520 --> 00:17:56.480] I like that Alice said ghee, which is clarified butter, which means she's just clarified ghee.
[00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:03.280] I did that for your benefit because I knew that you would be like, I don't know what ghee is.
[00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:04.400] I know what ghee is.
[00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:04.960] Do you though?
[00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:05.760] I know what ghee is.
[00:18:05.760 --> 00:18:07.760] When I was, I did.
[00:18:08.080 --> 00:18:15.280] When I was at university, my housemate Ben bought like a massive vat of ghee because he cooks a lot of Indian food because his family's Indian.
[00:18:15.280 --> 00:18:20.160] And so he bought a massive vat of ghee and then he didn't really use it and it went off and went a bit mink or a bit ran.
[00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:22.720] Rancid ghee in a tub on top of a cupboard.
[00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:24.240] Plenty of omega-6 in it, though.
[00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:25.840] Lords, absolutely lords.
[00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:28.320] So you might recognize some of these talking points.
[00:18:28.320 --> 00:18:33.280] The idea that the very nature of processing a foodstuff is what leads it to cause harm.
[00:18:33.280 --> 00:18:36.240] This is straight out of the ultra-processed foods playbook.
[00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:38.400] But I think there's more to it than that.
[00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:41.680] The seed oil conversation has everything.
[00:18:41.680 --> 00:18:44.640] So let's go back to what Troy the Certified Health Nut said.
[00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:46.720] He says that seed oils are industrial oils.
[00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:51.360] He insists that canola oil is a GM plant and is used for lubricating machine equipment.
[00:18:51.360 --> 00:18:55.440] Canola oil, also known as rapeseed oil, has been around for thousands of years.
[00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:58.800] And we know it was used as a lamp fuel in the 16th century.
[00:18:58.800 --> 00:19:03.840] It is true that its use as a foodstuff came later than its use as a fuel source.
[00:19:03.840 --> 00:19:14.960] But take, for example, turmeric, that health food that many wellness influencers are a fan of, that was used as a dye before it was used in folk medicine and before we realized it was a tasty thing to eat as a spice.
[00:19:15.280 --> 00:19:18.720] Just because something is repurposed does not make it bad or dangerous.
[00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:21.600] And also, oh, it's used as a lubricant for engines.
[00:19:21.600 --> 00:19:24.880] Like, okay, I mean, lots of things could be used as a lubricant.
[00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:26.160] Like, butter can be used.
[00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:29.680] If you get a ring stuck on your finger, you can put butter on it to lubricate off.
[00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:30.840] That doesn't mean butter is bad for you.
[00:19:30.840 --> 00:19:31.720] It just means it's slippery.
[00:19:31.800 --> 00:19:32.280] It's useful.
[00:19:32.280 --> 00:19:32.520] Yeah.
[00:19:32.520 --> 00:19:32.840] Yeah, yeah.
[00:19:33.080 --> 00:19:35.160] Water is quite often used as an industrial lubricant.
[00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:36.360] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:38.040] So, very odd.
[00:19:38.040 --> 00:19:44.280] The rapeseed that we use to make canola oil is off quite often from GM crops, but usually just to make them resistant to pesticides.
[00:19:44.280 --> 00:19:51.480] And then we have this problem with making GM crops in that they then just spread their seeds elsewhere, and then now suddenly all of the crops are forgotten.
[00:19:51.480 --> 00:19:54.920] Yeah, they're less resistant to pesticides.
[00:19:54.920 --> 00:20:00.120] And it is used as a lubricant for machinery, but that doesn't mean that the food-grade stuff isn't safe to eat.
[00:20:00.120 --> 00:20:08.760] Like, we're not going to eat the stuff that they're using to lubricate machinery because they're going to have chemical-grade stuff, and we've got food-grade stuff when we want to eat it.
[00:20:09.160 --> 00:20:17.480] Depending on how they refine it, refining of some oils, you'll take different layers of it, and this layer you'll skim off and use for this thing, then refine it down, and this layer will be for something else.
[00:20:17.480 --> 00:20:23.400] And it's normally, I know it more about crude oil than I do about food oil, but I imagine it's a similar process.
[00:20:24.360 --> 00:20:27.800] So, in these sorts of views, we have plenty of conspiracism.
[00:20:27.800 --> 00:20:43.800] Some unspoken they have been manipulating our food and lying to us about it because it's cheaper to use the stuff that we use for machines or for whatever sinister reason that they're selling us something alternative to the natural beef tallow, etc.
[00:20:44.360 --> 00:20:46.920] But we also have misinterpreted science.
[00:20:46.920 --> 00:20:51.640] Sure, seed oils have proportionally more omega-6 than other cooking oil sources.
[00:20:51.640 --> 00:20:57.560] I found this really weird listening to videos of people talking about omega-6 because, like, omega-6 is good.
[00:20:57.560 --> 00:20:59.320] It's an essential fatty acid.
[00:20:59.320 --> 00:21:03.320] We need, like, I don't understand where they've got this idea that omega-6 is a bad thing.
[00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:05.000] That's the one from fish and stuff, isn't it?
[00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:08.200] Omega-3, more from fish sources.
[00:21:08.200 --> 00:21:09.480] So, it's an essential fatty acid.
[00:21:09.480 --> 00:21:11.320] Our body needs it and cannot produce it.
[00:21:11.320 --> 00:21:13.320] We need to get it from our diet.
[00:21:13.320 --> 00:21:25.440] Some people claim that the body converts one of the more common forms of omega-6, linolenic acid, into another fatty acid called arachidonic acid, which is a building block for inflammatory molecules.
[00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:28.400] But the evidence just doesn't stack up that this is happening in the body.
[00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:31.200] It is possible, it just doesn't really happen.
[00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:35.200] And omega-6 actually reduces inflammatory markers in the body.
[00:21:35.520 --> 00:21:37.360] But there's more to it than that.
[00:21:37.360 --> 00:21:42.000] Notice how the alternative sources come down to tallow or butter.
[00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:49.040] A lot of the influences on the seed oils are bad train are also those same influences who promote the carnivore diet.
[00:21:49.040 --> 00:21:49.680] Yeah.
[00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:58.320] And notice also that we've moved away from ketogenic diet to carnivore diet, just like we've moved away from vegetable fats to seed oils.
[00:21:58.320 --> 00:22:01.040] I don't think this shift in language is inconsequential.
[00:22:01.040 --> 00:22:05.360] I think it's related to a shift towards particular ideological positions.
[00:22:05.360 --> 00:22:09.680] Yeah, I didn't even realize that the ketogenic diet and carnivore diet are the same thing.
[00:22:09.680 --> 00:22:11.200] They're essentially the same thing.
[00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:14.400] Ketogenic is meat-based and carnivore diet is meat-based.
[00:22:14.480 --> 00:22:17.520] I sent you a claim about the ketogenic diet that we may look into in the future.
[00:22:17.520 --> 00:22:23.200] Yeah, and I don't think we've ever really done a deep dive on the ketogenic diet before, partly because the science of it is complicated.
[00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:33.760] It is a recommended diet for some health conditions, and it just will require me to actually dig into the science and figure out how to explain it properly without misrepresenting anything.
[00:22:33.760 --> 00:22:35.920] But it is on my list of things to talk about.
[00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:40.000] But yeah, ketogenic diet is meat-based, carnivore diet, meat-based.
[00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:45.760] They're very similar, if not exactly the same, depending on how different people interpret it.
[00:22:46.080 --> 00:23:00.000] Specifically, we're seeing trends towards alt-right talking points, traditional values, hyper-femininity for women and tried wife concepts, hyper-masculinity for men that we talked about on the show about the gym influencer type people.
[00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:08.600] The idea that we should upsticks and live on a homestead and eat real meat, especially raw meat, and cook using beef tallow.
[00:23:08.920 --> 00:23:19.240] Joe Rogan, in particular, has been talking about avoiding seed oil since 2011, linking it to healthy eating in an interview with MMA fighter Bo Nickel in October that year.
[00:23:19.240 --> 00:23:35.400] Meanwhile, Twitter user Carnivore Aurelius started talking about it in 2021 to over 300,000 Twitter followers, linking seed oil to an increase in obesity and cardiovascular disease, alongside tweets about traditional family values and the scam of feminism.
[00:23:35.400 --> 00:23:37.400] Yeah, and he's got 320,000 followers.
[00:23:37.400 --> 00:23:39.400] God, Twitter's been cooked for a while, hasn't it?
[00:23:39.720 --> 00:24:04.920] According to an article on Rolling Stone, Derek Beres, the co-author of the book Conspirituality, How New Age Conspiracy Theories Became a Health Threat, says he first started noticing whispers about seed oils being hazardous to your health when he saw Paul Saladino, aka Carnivore MD, an influencer with more than 2 million Instagram followers who advocates for a primarily animal-based diet, speaking about it on Joe Rogan's podcast.
[00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:08.440] That was a three-hour interview which took place in 2021.
[00:24:08.760 --> 00:24:11.240] Joe Rogan had already been talking about it before then.
[00:24:11.240 --> 00:24:13.720] Yeah, he's a bad guy and someone should do something about it.
[00:24:14.360 --> 00:24:20.760] So it's been an alt-right talking point for a while, but it seems like something's changed.
[00:24:21.080 --> 00:24:23.400] And part of that is that the political climate is shifting.
[00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:28.200] In 2025, we've got alt and far-right governments gaining power in more and more countries.
[00:24:28.200 --> 00:24:35.000] But I think part of the ubiquity of this talking point is also about the radicalization pipeline.
[00:24:35.320 --> 00:24:45.200] Whether by design or by consequence, the oil with which you cook your food is kind of a great way to radicalize people to a particular ideology.
[00:24:44.360 --> 00:24:51.120] Food is something we all consume and something that has been the subject of scrutiny for decades.
[00:24:51.440 --> 00:25:06.640] As health trends drift in and out of fashion, we're often in a cycle where what we choose to eat is seen as a signifier of wealth, political viewpoints, moral stance, even core parts of our personality and identity, like work ethic or selflessness.
[00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:14.480] Picky eating can be dismissed as selfishness, using pre-prepared foods considered laziness, choosing veganism seen as moralistic.
[00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:23.120] Never mind that buying lunch during the workday can be seen as luxury or frivolity depending on who you're talking to and how you're already perceived by society.
[00:25:23.760 --> 00:25:27.920] Fucking millennials and their avocado toast, meaning they can't buy a house, right?
[00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:33.280] But it's also something we have to think about multiple times a day, every single day.
[00:25:33.280 --> 00:25:54.880] Once you've managed to create a fear about a particular foodstuff, it can be very hard to break that fear and it can permeate into every moment of your day from what time you wake up, got to have enough time to prepare whole foods instead of eating ultra-processed foods, to what your bedtime routine looks like, got to prepare your lunch for tomorrow to save money and health on a shop-bought lunch.
[00:25:54.880 --> 00:26:07.920] Make it about the very fuel source that you cook your food with, and now you're scrutinizing and thinking about the fear-mongering position at every single meal, making fundamental decisions about fundamental choices.
[00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:11.040] It's easy to see how that can become an ideological position.
[00:26:11.040 --> 00:26:27.200] Create a fear and link it to something as basically fundamental as eating, is encouraging the thought of that fear on multiple occasions throughout the day, not just at meal times, but also, you know, when doing the food shopping or when meal prepping for the week ahead or when planning your day and where you're going to buy your food from.
[00:26:27.520 --> 00:26:33.160] You've now snuck a position into somebody's everyday life, every waking moment.
[00:26:33.160 --> 00:26:40.680] Now you're thinking about clean or traditional or masculine dietary choices multiple times a day, every single day.
[00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:47.400] And if you start to talk about it and feel dismissed when people say, Oh, but is cooking everything you eat in beef tallow really a good idea?
[00:26:47.400 --> 00:27:02.120] As people tend to do when it comes to food and health, because society encourages all to have and share opinions on other people's food choices, and now you might feel pushed away by the mainstream and spend more time consuming content and community from the people who share your viewpoint.
[00:27:02.120 --> 00:27:11.800] One minute it's about making healthy choices about food, then suddenly it's that eating meat is good for you, and then it's about rejecting climate change because that's why the vegans want you to reduce your meat consumption.
[00:27:11.800 --> 00:27:20.120] And now you're sneering at the ultra-processed foods that you find in the vegan diet when we're replacing chip fat with vegetable oil and making processed meat replacements.
[00:27:20.440 --> 00:27:23.880] And now maybe you should think about eating raw meats or drinking raw milk.
[00:27:23.880 --> 00:27:30.600] And wouldn't it be great if you could live on the homestead life where your wife wears pretty dresses and has dinner on the table when you get home from work?
[00:27:30.600 --> 00:27:32.120] And suddenly when RFK Jr.
[00:27:32.200 --> 00:27:45.480] comes after the seed oils, saying the American population is being unknowingly poisoned by them, it's easy to trust his understanding of the science because you've always known that seed oils are terrible and maybe he's right about the rise in autism and the need to control it.
[00:27:45.800 --> 00:27:57.080] I'm seeing it even at our events at Skeptics in the Pub, where new attendees who are interested in learning more about skepticism are just dropping seed oil discussion points into the conversation to see where we stand on it.
[00:27:57.080 --> 00:27:58.040] Wow.
[00:27:58.360 --> 00:28:03.720] The radicalization pipeline is a dangerous one, but it's not always easy to see or track.
[00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:08.280] It's easy to dismiss seed oil concerns as just a lack of scientific understanding.
[00:28:08.360 --> 00:28:12.440] Easy to assume that people are being misguided about health topics.
[00:28:12.440 --> 00:28:22.000] It's even easy to laugh at the alt-right's interest in seed oils as silly, as Andrew Tate did when he tweeted, I can tell you losers have never had real enemies.
[00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:25.920] You're afraid of sunflowers, you legit won't shut up about it.
[00:28:26.560 --> 00:28:35.040] But it seems clear to me that seed oil is a talking point that will easily draw more and more people into that alt-right radicalization pathway.
[00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:41.120] My next-door neighbour's got a dog.
[00:28:41.120 --> 00:28:41.760] Oh, really?
[00:28:41.760 --> 00:28:43.040] She's got a new dog.
[00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:44.800] I mean, it's quite sad in many ways.
[00:28:44.800 --> 00:28:46.320] Her husband died last year.
[00:28:46.320 --> 00:28:46.720] Okay.
[00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:49.360] And so she's got a dog to keep her company.
[00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:51.200] Is it a new dog or is it new to her?
[00:28:51.600 --> 00:28:53.120] It was a relatively new dog.
[00:28:53.120 --> 00:28:54.160] Okay, it wasn't a pre-owned dog.
[00:28:54.320 --> 00:28:55.440] I don't think it was a pre-owned dog.
[00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:56.240] It's like a second-hand dog.
[00:28:56.880 --> 00:28:57.840] Is it a puppy then?
[00:28:57.840 --> 00:28:58.560] It was a puppy.
[00:28:59.120 --> 00:29:00.160] I mean, we're all puppies.
[00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:00.800] He's growing up.
[00:29:00.800 --> 00:29:02.160] He's growing up now.
[00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:12.800] But he's like a shih tzu, but he's a shihzu with a fucking temper on him, as shihzus tend to do, a little yappy fucking bastard that he is, who constantly growls at me as I go up and down.
[00:29:12.800 --> 00:29:17.840] Like he gets very annoysy, very aggressive at me.
[00:29:17.840 --> 00:29:20.560] But she was out there and she goes, I've got a new dog.
[00:29:20.560 --> 00:29:21.440] I say, I can see that.
[00:29:21.440 --> 00:29:21.840] Yeah, yeah.
[00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:23.040] She keeps talking to me.
[00:29:23.040 --> 00:29:27.680] My neighbours keep talking to me like I'm a nice, friendly person.
[00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:30.480] And I do my best impression of going, oh, yeah, it's brilliant.
[00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:35.520] That's that's that's and then I go into the house and I say to Lana, leave me the fuck alone.
[00:29:35.520 --> 00:29:37.520] I always love talking to my neighbours.
[00:29:37.520 --> 00:29:38.720] We live very close to each other.
[00:29:38.720 --> 00:29:43.040] We can hear each other quite often and I always enjoy talking to them every single time.
[00:29:43.040 --> 00:29:43.840] Absolutely.
[00:29:43.840 --> 00:29:45.360] Yeah, brilliant, brilliant.
[00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:47.680] But she said to me, I've got a new dog.
[00:29:47.680 --> 00:29:48.960] I said, all right, I can see that.
[00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:51.200] I said, Can you guess what his name is?
[00:29:52.240 --> 00:29:53.120] How could you guess what his name is?
[00:29:53.920 --> 00:29:54.480] What am I?
[00:29:54.560 --> 00:29:55.840] Because a dog name could be anything.
[00:29:56.800 --> 00:29:57.920] Was the dog wearing anything?
[00:29:57.920 --> 00:29:59.200] Like, was he dressed as a frog?
[00:29:59.200 --> 00:30:00.600] In which case you go, is it Kermit?
[00:30:00.760 --> 00:30:01.960] Kermit, Kermit the dog.
[00:29:59.840 --> 00:30:03.880] No, that's nothing along those lines.
[00:30:04.120 --> 00:30:09.240] And it's because you can even give a dog a human name, like Sam or Ben or something like that.
[00:30:09.400 --> 00:30:13.560] To the point where I'm suspicious of humans called Sam and Ben, because that's a dog's name, mate.
[00:30:13.560 --> 00:30:14.120] You can give it a name.
[00:30:14.600 --> 00:30:16.840] I did once meet a dog called Dave.
[00:30:16.840 --> 00:30:17.800] That's fine.
[00:30:18.680 --> 00:30:19.240] That is weird.
[00:30:19.320 --> 00:30:20.920] That's a very unusual name for Dave.
[00:30:21.400 --> 00:30:23.800] David, and they were nicknaming me it to diff.
[00:30:23.800 --> 00:30:24.200] I don't know.
[00:30:24.440 --> 00:30:25.400] What was on his passport?
[00:30:25.720 --> 00:30:35.480] So found out the dog's name was Dave because the guy was running, the dog was running towards the direction that I was in, and the guy was running after the dog and shouting what sounded like Daisy, Daisy.
[00:30:35.480 --> 00:30:35.720] Right.
[00:30:36.120 --> 00:30:36.840] Sounds like Davey.
[00:30:37.080 --> 00:30:38.440] Turns out it was Davey.
[00:30:38.840 --> 00:30:40.360] The dog was called Dave.
[00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:44.280] If the dog was called Dave, don't call it Davey because then that's two separate different noises.
[00:30:44.280 --> 00:30:46.200] It's not going to know you're calling it a different name.
[00:30:46.200 --> 00:30:47.960] It won't know that Dave and Davey are linked necessarily.
[00:30:48.120 --> 00:30:51.160] Lupin knows about a million names for himself.
[00:30:51.160 --> 00:30:52.600] It's the noise, it's the sound, isn't it?
[00:30:52.600 --> 00:30:53.880] The intonation rather than the actual noise.
[00:30:54.200 --> 00:30:55.640] Davy does include the word Dave.
[00:30:56.040 --> 00:31:00.200] Lupin does know, like, he knows, like, Lupin can retain lots of different words.
[00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:08.600] He's a reasonably intelligent dog, so he knows that there are a collection of names that will be used about him that he knows are about him, including Belle End.
[00:31:11.480 --> 00:31:13.240] Come here, you little fucker.
[00:31:13.560 --> 00:31:14.760] All of those.
[00:31:14.760 --> 00:31:17.480] But Micah only knows her one name.
[00:31:17.480 --> 00:31:19.480] She's forgotten the name she had when we got her.
[00:31:19.480 --> 00:31:20.040] Yeah.
[00:31:20.040 --> 00:31:23.160] But you can get, like, dogs will have like human names.
[00:31:23.320 --> 00:31:23.640] Human names.
[00:31:24.120 --> 00:31:25.640] It's weird when they call a rank.
[00:31:25.640 --> 00:31:27.240] If you give them a rank, then it's weird.
[00:31:27.560 --> 00:31:28.760] Like Colonel Franklin.
[00:31:28.840 --> 00:31:29.320] Like Colonel.
[00:31:29.320 --> 00:31:30.360] I think Colonel's too far.
[00:31:30.360 --> 00:31:30.600] Yeah.
[00:31:30.600 --> 00:31:30.840] Yeah.
[00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:33.320] Maybe there's some ranks as well, like general.
[00:31:33.320 --> 00:31:33.720] No.
[00:31:33.880 --> 00:31:35.560] I don't think you can have a dog that was a general.
[00:31:35.560 --> 00:31:37.560] I mean, private, no.
[00:31:37.880 --> 00:31:39.320] Maybe you can only have a mid-rank.
[00:31:40.760 --> 00:31:41.960] Colonel's maybe sergeant.
[00:31:41.960 --> 00:31:43.800] Sergeant, I can see a sergeant.
[00:31:44.040 --> 00:31:50.080] A little bulldog called Sergeant something or otherwise being all buff and doggy.
[00:31:50.560 --> 00:31:57.520] But yeah, and also dogs can have odd esoteric names like Lupin and things like that, where it's a little bit more unusual.
[00:31:57.520 --> 00:32:01.760] My cat, one of my cats, is called Hubert Cumberdale, which is not.
[00:32:01.760 --> 00:32:03.920] I mean, it could be a person's name, in fairness.
[00:32:03.920 --> 00:32:06.320] There could be a real human being called Hubert Cumberdale.
[00:32:06.320 --> 00:32:07.920] But she said, guess what his name is?
[00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:09.360] And I was like, I don't fucking know.
[00:32:09.360 --> 00:32:12.720] And she goes, Eric.
[00:32:13.040 --> 00:32:13.760] And I went, all right.
[00:32:13.760 --> 00:32:14.800] And then she went bad.
[00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:16.320] No, it's not.
[00:32:16.640 --> 00:32:17.760] That was a lie.
[00:32:18.080 --> 00:32:18.960] What is she doing?
[00:32:18.960 --> 00:32:19.760] Wait, what?
[00:32:19.760 --> 00:32:21.440] She goes, it's Ernie.
[00:32:21.440 --> 00:32:22.800] And I was like, all right, okay.
[00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:25.120] And what it is, she's got Morcombe and Wise in her head.
[00:32:25.120 --> 00:32:27.680] That's why she's called the dog Ernie.
[00:32:27.680 --> 00:32:30.480] And then, but she's Morcom and Wise, also known as Eric and Ernie.
[00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:30.960] Eric and Ernie.
[00:32:31.040 --> 00:32:33.040] And so she's got, he's called Eric.
[00:32:33.040 --> 00:32:33.680] No, he's not.
[00:32:33.680 --> 00:32:34.320] It's the other one.
[00:32:37.120 --> 00:32:38.480] So it's like Ernie, the little shit.
[00:32:38.560 --> 00:32:40.560] Has she thought about getting a second dog?
[00:32:41.040 --> 00:32:41.840] I mean, it would make sense.
[00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:45.840] What should I call it?
[00:32:46.640 --> 00:32:48.640] You'd have to name it after a different double act, wouldn't you?
[00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:50.800] You have to call it like Eddie, like Eddie Large.
[00:32:50.800 --> 00:32:58.720] Or Ball as a canon and Ronnie, but not mention which one of the two Ronnies it was named after.
[00:32:59.200 --> 00:33:00.080] Could be either of them.
[00:33:00.080 --> 00:33:02.000] I mean, surely he's Barker.
[00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:06.480] You'd think that, but no, no.
[00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:11.200] But yeah, this little fucking shitty dog that keeps growling at me, he thinks he's a wolf still.
[00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:14.080] He still thinks he's there terrifying me away.
[00:33:14.560 --> 00:33:19.280] Genetically engineered by an American cryptocurrency company to think he's a wolf these days.
[00:33:19.520 --> 00:33:20.320] They brought him back.
[00:33:20.320 --> 00:33:21.120] He's a wolf now.
[00:33:21.120 --> 00:33:22.800] He's not just a slightly modified dog.
[00:33:22.800 --> 00:33:23.440] Seriously.
[00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:25.280] But the little fucker keeps escaping.
[00:33:25.280 --> 00:33:28.320] She lets him out into the front garden and he keeps escaping.
[00:33:28.640 --> 00:33:30.840] We don't know how, but he gets out into the street.
[00:33:31.160 --> 00:33:37.720] So she's now put chicken wire all around her house to stop the dog escaping on the logic that he was getting out under the fence.
[00:33:37.720 --> 00:33:43.000] And it's like, maybe it's the massive two-foot gap underneath your front gate that he's getting out of.
[00:33:44.120 --> 00:33:47.000] You know, just call me fucking psychic.
[00:33:47.000 --> 00:33:47.480] Maybe it's.
[00:33:47.560 --> 00:33:50.200] I've not seen him do it, but it seems to make sense to me.
[00:33:50.600 --> 00:33:51.320] But he escaped.
[00:33:51.320 --> 00:33:57.480] He got out into the street, was caught by the dog pound dog catcher, which I didn't even know was still a thing.
[00:33:57.640 --> 00:34:02.200] But apparently he was caught by the dog catcher, who then drove him to Telford.
[00:34:02.520 --> 00:34:03.640] And it's like, why?
[00:34:03.880 --> 00:34:04.520] A little trip.
[00:34:04.520 --> 00:34:10.440] Why do they drive him to because they then got a phone call from the people in Telford saying, we've got your dog here.
[00:34:10.440 --> 00:34:12.280] And she had to drive to Telford.
[00:34:12.280 --> 00:34:13.000] How bizarre.
[00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:13.880] To get her dog.
[00:34:13.880 --> 00:34:15.160] What if she didn't have a car?
[00:34:15.160 --> 00:34:18.840] And it's like that's a dog napper.
[00:34:19.160 --> 00:34:21.000] He's kidnapped the dog and he's holding it around.
[00:34:21.320 --> 00:34:21.800] It might have been.
[00:34:21.800 --> 00:34:23.080] It might have been a dog ransom.
[00:34:23.080 --> 00:34:25.560] She had to pay money to release him from the dog catcher.
[00:34:26.120 --> 00:34:27.400] That is a ransom at this point.
[00:34:27.400 --> 00:34:29.160] But no, she had to get a dog from the driver down.
[00:34:29.160 --> 00:34:30.680] She's got a abandoned warehouse.
[00:34:31.000 --> 00:34:32.040] Or the middle of the park.
[00:34:32.440 --> 00:34:33.480] Either end of a bridge.
[00:34:33.800 --> 00:34:40.040] It's like you bring the dog and the money and we'll swap in the middle of the bridge so nobody can see.
[00:34:40.040 --> 00:34:42.840] In fairness, she's got this dog initially for company.
[00:34:42.840 --> 00:34:44.600] Obviously, the dog thinks he's there for protection.
[00:34:44.840 --> 00:34:48.200] She doesn't realize he's there for company if he keeps fucking off.
[00:34:48.600 --> 00:34:51.480] Since the dog has been there, no burglaries on our street.
[00:34:51.480 --> 00:34:51.720] Wow.
[00:34:52.440 --> 00:34:53.160] He's doing a good job.
[00:34:53.880 --> 00:34:57.560] I'm pretty sure that it was Micah barking that stopped.
[00:34:57.880 --> 00:35:07.480] So we had an attempt to break in a little while ago, a few years ago, and I think it was Micah barking at three o'clock in the morning that disturbed them, and they left and didn't get into the house.
[00:35:07.960 --> 00:35:09.960] Micah has prevented all sorts of things that way.
[00:35:09.960 --> 00:35:14.960] Burglaries, friendships forming, deliveries.
[00:35:14.600 --> 00:35:17.440] She's a particularly barky dog.
[00:35:22.160 --> 00:35:24.960] So, tickets for QED are still available.
[00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:28.400] You can find more information about that at QEDcon.org.
[00:35:28.400 --> 00:35:34.960] Tickets are continuing to hurtle out of the door, and it's definitely something that you should get your hands on as soon as humanly possible.
[00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:38.880] You should check out our website as well because it is entirely possible that we have announced more speakers.
[00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:40.720] There's going to be loads of new stuff announced, I'm sure.
[00:35:41.520 --> 00:35:45.360] We're recording this quite far in advance, so we don't know what those announcements are yet.
[00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:48.960] But check out our website, you might find out that somebody exciting is speaking for us.
[00:35:49.040 --> 00:35:51.520] Well, definitely, somebody as exciting is speaking for us.
[00:35:51.520 --> 00:35:55.360] So, for listeners who have missed this, this is going to be the final QED.
[00:35:55.840 --> 00:35:57.920] This is the last of the QEDs.
[00:35:57.920 --> 00:36:03.440] And so, this is your final opportunity to come to a QED event, to the best skeptical conference in the world.
[00:36:03.440 --> 00:36:04.400] And I make no apologies.
[00:36:04.400 --> 00:36:06.640] According to lots of people, including me.
[00:36:06.640 --> 00:36:09.280] I've not been to many others, but I know ours is the fucking business.
[00:36:10.480 --> 00:36:11.360] So, there we go.
[00:36:11.360 --> 00:36:13.040] But you should definitely come along to QED.
[00:36:13.040 --> 00:36:14.480] And as I say, it's going to be the last event.
[00:36:14.480 --> 00:36:16.720] So, this is your last opportunity to do so.
[00:36:16.720 --> 00:36:20.240] It's going to be in central Manchester at the Mercure Piccadilly Hotel.
[00:36:20.240 --> 00:36:20.880] The classic.
[00:36:20.880 --> 00:36:29.600] We're going to be running the event from the 25th and the 26th of October as the free skepticamp event on the 24th, which is the Friday beforehand.
[00:36:29.600 --> 00:36:32.880] There almost certainly is going to be some activity going on on the Thursday as well.
[00:36:32.880 --> 00:36:33.440] Oh, yeah.
[00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:35.120] It's going to be an absolutely brilliant time.
[00:36:35.120 --> 00:36:38.160] It's going to be the best skeptical party you've ever been to.
[00:36:38.160 --> 00:36:39.440] We have free childcare.
[00:36:39.440 --> 00:36:43.680] If you're saying to that, oh, I'd love to go, but I can't, you know, I need to get a babysitter.
[00:36:43.680 --> 00:36:44.160] Don't worry.
[00:36:44.160 --> 00:36:45.600] We have free childcare there.
[00:36:45.600 --> 00:36:50.000] You could be like, oh, it sounds really good, but big, loud, skeptical party.
[00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:50.640] It's not my thing.
[00:36:50.640 --> 00:36:51.600] I'm a bit autistic.
[00:36:51.600 --> 00:36:54.320] And, you know, we've got a quiet space where you can go and hang out.
[00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:58.480] You could be like, I'm in a completely other country and it's impossible for me to get there.
[00:36:58.480 --> 00:36:59.440] We've got it online.
[00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:00.120] Online tickets.
[00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:01.320] Highly recommend the online.
[00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:06.200] We're going to be giving you the main stage, the panel room, the power room and the podcast room.
[00:37:06.360 --> 00:37:09.560] So we have three different streams you'll get for your £49.
[00:37:09.560 --> 00:37:10.120] Yeah.
[00:37:10.120 --> 00:37:15.640] So tickets to that are £179 and they are available now at qdcon.org.
[00:37:15.960 --> 00:37:20.200] Also, for Liverpool Skeptics in the pub, we have a social event which is a week today.
[00:37:20.200 --> 00:37:21.560] That's on the 5th of June.
[00:37:21.560 --> 00:37:23.000] That's taking place in Dr.
[00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:23.800] Duncan's on St.
[00:37:23.800 --> 00:37:24.440] John's Lane.
[00:37:24.840 --> 00:37:26.360] But neither of you are going to be there.
[00:37:26.600 --> 00:37:28.280] I am going to be in Croatia.
[00:37:28.280 --> 00:37:29.960] And I'm going to be in Northern Cyprus.
[00:37:29.960 --> 00:37:30.440] That's good.
[00:37:30.440 --> 00:37:32.840] So this is the point where I take over the group again.
[00:37:33.960 --> 00:37:38.120] I'm going to come on, put my foot down, vote you off the board in our finish.
[00:37:38.120 --> 00:37:38.280] Yeah.
[00:37:38.600 --> 00:37:40.600] Well, they haven't even fucking turned up, have they?
[00:37:40.600 --> 00:37:42.040] This is absolute long game.
[00:37:42.040 --> 00:37:44.600] That's what we've been the plan the whole time.
[00:37:44.920 --> 00:37:46.680] But no, you should definitely come along to that.
[00:37:46.680 --> 00:37:47.960] That's going to be a fantastic time.
[00:37:47.960 --> 00:37:48.760] As I say, that's Dr.
[00:37:48.760 --> 00:37:49.480] Duncan's on St.
[00:37:49.480 --> 00:37:50.120] John's Lane.
[00:37:50.120 --> 00:37:51.400] That is from 8 p.m.
[00:37:51.720 --> 00:37:53.960] And if you're in the Liverpool area, come along to that.
[00:37:53.960 --> 00:37:56.920] If you are in Cyprus or where were you going?
[00:37:56.920 --> 00:38:00.920] I'm going to be in Dubrovnik and then Split and then on an island in between.
[00:38:00.920 --> 00:38:01.320] Okay.
[00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:05.880] So if you're in either of those locations, don't come because it's a bit of a hike.
[00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:08.760] It is, but if you're in the Liverpool area, you should definitely come along to that.
[00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:09.880] That's going to be fantastic.
[00:38:09.880 --> 00:38:12.040] Aside from that, then I think that is all we have time for.
[00:38:12.040 --> 00:38:12.600] I think it is.
[00:38:12.600 --> 00:38:15.080] All that remains then is for you to thank Marsh for coming along today.
[00:38:15.080 --> 00:38:15.560] Cheers.
[00:38:15.560 --> 00:38:16.520] Thank you to Alice.
[00:38:16.520 --> 00:38:17.000] Thank you.
[00:38:17.000 --> 00:38:19.560] We have been Skeptics with a K, and we will see you next time.
[00:38:19.560 --> 00:38:20.280] Bye now.
[00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:21.320] Bye.
[00:38:26.120 --> 00:38:31.160] Skeptics with a K is produced by Skeptic Media in association with the Merseyside Skeptic Society.
[00:38:31.160 --> 00:38:40.600] For questions or comments, email podcast at skepticswithakay.org, and you can find out more about Merseyside Skeptics at merseyside skeptics.org.uk.

Prompt 2: Key Takeaways

Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.

Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...". 

Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive. 

IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}

Prompt 3: Segments

Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.

For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)  
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion

IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
  "segments": [
    {
      "segment_title": "Topic Discussion", 
      "timestamp": "01:15:30",
      "key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
      "segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
    }
  ]
}

Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.

Prompt 4: Media Mentions

Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:

Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)  
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)

DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names

IMPORTANT: 
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
  "media_mentions": [
    {
      "title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
      "category": "Book",
      "author_artist": "N/A",
      "context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
      "context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
      "timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
    }
  ]
}

If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}

Full Transcript

[00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:03.200] I chose FDU for my education for numerous reasons.
[00:00:03.200 --> 00:00:12.000] The first being the great reputation that the Silverman College of Business has, the amazing culture with the faculty and staff, and also the very convenient location to New York City.
[00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:16.320] I seized the moment at FDU and now I'm in the career of my dreams.
[00:00:16.320 --> 00:00:21.840] Ford was built on the belief that the world doesn't get to decide what you're capable of.
[00:00:21.840 --> 00:00:22.560] You do.
[00:00:22.880 --> 00:00:26.320] So ask yourself, can you or can't you?
[00:00:26.320 --> 00:00:31.120] Can you load up a Ford F-150 and build your dream with sweat and steel?
[00:00:31.120 --> 00:00:34.880] Can you chase thrills and conquer curves in a Mustang?
[00:00:34.880 --> 00:00:39.280] Can you take a Bronco to where the map ends and adventure begins?
[00:00:39.280 --> 00:00:43.360] Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right.
[00:00:43.360 --> 00:00:46.320] Ready, set, Ford.
[00:00:46.640 --> 00:00:49.440] They say that home is where the heart is.
[00:00:49.440 --> 00:00:55.040] Maybe that's why so many fall in love with Big Pine Key and Florida's Lower Keys.
[00:00:55.040 --> 00:01:09.440] With epic ocean views, unspoiled wilderness, sandy beaches, abundant wildlife, RV resorts, and Stock Island's rustic charm, Florida's Lower Keys don't skip a beat.
[00:01:09.760 --> 00:01:15.360] For more about the Lower Keys, visit flakeys.com slash lower keys.
[00:01:22.720 --> 00:01:31.280] It is Thursday, the 29th of May, 2025, and you're listening to Skeptics with a K, the podcast for science, reason, and critical thinking.
[00:01:31.280 --> 00:01:42.160] Skeptics with a K is produced by Skeptic Media in association with the Merseyside Skeptic Society, a non-profit organization for the promotion of scientific skepticism on Merseyside around the UK and internationally.
[00:01:42.160 --> 00:01:43.520] I'm your host, Mike Hall.
[00:01:43.520 --> 00:01:44.880] With me today is Marsh.
[00:01:44.880 --> 00:01:45.360] Hello.
[00:01:45.360 --> 00:01:46.080] And Alice.
[00:01:46.080 --> 00:01:47.040] Hello.
[00:01:47.680 --> 00:01:49.920] So we've been doing this podcast for a long time.
[00:01:49.920 --> 00:01:51.440] We have been doing it for a long time.
[00:01:51.440 --> 00:01:52.800] It's a little while now.
[00:01:52.800 --> 00:02:00.200] Since we started in 2009 and I joined in 2013, we have recorded almost 420 episodes.
[00:02:00.200 --> 00:02:01.560] And half of them mention Doctor Who.
[00:02:01.560 --> 00:02:03.160] Half of them mentioned Doctor Who.
[00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:07.160] We only say cunt on 22 of them, I think it is.
[00:02:07.320 --> 00:02:07.880] 23.
[00:02:09.800 --> 00:02:14.680] That is because there was a time that we made a concerted decision to stop using that word on the show.
[00:02:14.680 --> 00:02:15.000] Oh, really?
[00:02:15.160 --> 00:02:17.000] Even though we, do you not remember this conversation?
[00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:29.720] So we'd had, because we have a broad international listenership, we'd said, look, this isn't that bad a word in the UK, but in the States, it is not only is it taken in a different way, but it's also quite a gendered insult.
[00:02:29.720 --> 00:02:34.120] And so we made the concerted decision that we would avoid using it for that reason.
[00:02:34.120 --> 00:02:35.960] I think you might have been the last person to say it before me.
[00:02:39.560 --> 00:02:45.880] So it was, that is a decision that we have made, is that we don't, we tend to avoid it, even though we use it in our day-to-day life all the time.
[00:02:46.120 --> 00:02:46.600] All the time.
[00:02:46.600 --> 00:02:47.480] All the time.
[00:02:48.120 --> 00:02:57.560] So we have collectively spent thousands of hours identifying, investigating, researching, and writing about hundreds of sceptical topics for over a decade.
[00:02:57.560 --> 00:03:01.000] And that means we've seen hundreds of trends come and go.
[00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:11.240] And a wellness industry that has doubled in size were 3.4 trillion in 2013 and 6.8 trillion in 2023, according to the Global Wellness Institute.
[00:03:11.560 --> 00:03:18.440] Who are motivation in making it seem larger than others, but it's still massive.
[00:03:18.440 --> 00:03:19.080] We know it's massive.
[00:03:19.080 --> 00:03:19.960] We know it's massive.
[00:03:19.960 --> 00:03:24.280] You'll occasionally hear us predicting what might catch on, what might be a passing fad.
[00:03:24.280 --> 00:03:31.480] We'll speculate on where apparent trends are merely social media manipulation and where others are reflecting a change in social preferences.
[00:03:31.480 --> 00:03:47.040] And while some would argue that science and skepticism shouldn't be political, that evidence should matter to people from the whole political spectrum, it's clear in 2025 that politics and skepticism, or more importantly, politics and myths and disinformation, are as intrinsically linked as ever.
[00:03:47.040 --> 00:03:47.760] Yeah, yeah.
[00:03:47.760 --> 00:03:52.880] And I don't think that's a new thing, like, you know, propaganda is just what we used to call disinformation, right?
[00:03:52.880 --> 00:03:53.520] Yeah.
[00:03:53.520 --> 00:04:01.440] We've gone from focusing on ghost stories and homeopathy and psychics to talking about the rise in conspiracism, radicalization, and the alt-right.
[00:04:01.520 --> 00:04:02.080] Hate it.
[00:04:02.160 --> 00:04:03.360] Hate it so much.
[00:04:03.360 --> 00:04:07.120] I wish we didn't have to talk about it because it just bothers me.
[00:04:07.120 --> 00:04:08.640] Like, it really bothers me.
[00:04:08.640 --> 00:04:10.720] But also, it's the end of skepticism.
[00:04:10.720 --> 00:04:12.480] I find so fucking dull.
[00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:15.040] But no, this is where the world is now.
[00:04:15.040 --> 00:04:16.560] So that's what we have to deal with.
[00:04:17.280 --> 00:04:18.000] I don't find it dull.
[00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:18.640] I find it really interesting.
[00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:19.920] I know you fucking love it.
[00:04:19.920 --> 00:04:23.840] You're nuts, but I know you adore it, but it's just not my bag at all.
[00:04:24.160 --> 00:04:25.520] Pick the puzzle of it.
[00:04:25.520 --> 00:04:26.080] Yeah.
[00:04:26.080 --> 00:04:39.200] And sometimes we'll finish a recording session and one of us will apologise to the others for going on a particular rant, for talking extensively about a downward spiral, which is particularly negative and not conducive for the light conversational style that we usually aim for on the show.
[00:04:39.200 --> 00:04:50.480] Usually it's Marsh who's been tracking some of these topics more closely over a longer period of time, but it's becoming clear that these sorts of topics are permeating every aspect of the online world and into the real world too.
[00:04:50.480 --> 00:04:51.280] We can't avoid it.
[00:04:51.280 --> 00:04:54.000] We have to get in on talking about these topics.
[00:04:54.000 --> 00:05:02.720] We talk a lot about the harm of social media and it definitely feels like the harm has amplified even more recently, certainly in the last 18 months.
[00:05:03.040 --> 00:05:10.320] And there's an entire lexicon dedicated to understanding the impact it might have on our social and mental health, including the concept of doom scrolling.
[00:05:10.320 --> 00:05:15.040] But to some extent, obviously, engaging with social media is part of the work that we have to do.
[00:05:15.040 --> 00:05:24.000] Scrolling the various platforms is how we see those trends rising in real time and how we can get a feel for what's meaningful to the directionality and what's just noise.
[00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:36.440] We've kind of spent a lot of time thinking about and engaging with these topics such that we now have like that spidey sense of what's relevant, what's worth picking up on, and what's probably just going to disappear into the background.
[00:05:36.760 --> 00:05:39.720] I consume a lot of wellness and diet-related content.
[00:05:39.720 --> 00:05:43.240] Those are some of my particular areas of interest when it comes to skepticism.
[00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:51.560] And one thing I've noticed of late is something that can seem like a passing comment, a passing mention to the dangers of a particular item.
[00:05:51.560 --> 00:05:58.040] In the TikTok world of micro trends, sometimes it's these passing comments that I think really indicate the macro trends.
[00:05:58.040 --> 00:05:58.440] Yeah.
[00:05:58.440 --> 00:06:15.160] So if you've got micro trends that appear and disappear like as quickly as a wave breaking, you can then see if you've got multiple micro trends which make a passing reference to one unifying other trend, it can suggest that the passing reference is something that's catching on in a bigger way.
[00:06:15.160 --> 00:06:21.960] It can be that indicator that there's a thing that is unifying everybody and it's filtering into all of these micro trends.
[00:06:21.960 --> 00:06:26.280] Yeah, it's almost like, and I think this came up on the Skeptic in the Pub Discord recently.
[00:06:26.280 --> 00:06:30.680] It's almost like all of the woos get together and decide what the topic of the week is.
[00:06:30.680 --> 00:06:31.080] Yeah.
[00:06:31.080 --> 00:06:34.440] And they all pivot all at once and suddenly that's the thing that's everywhere.
[00:06:34.440 --> 00:06:35.400] Exactly.
[00:06:35.400 --> 00:06:44.120] And it's sometimes hard for us to articulate how the skeptical spidey sensors work, but sometimes we come across something that just feels like there's something more to it.
[00:06:44.120 --> 00:06:48.760] And for me recently, it was the ubiquity of comments demonizing seed oils.
[00:06:48.760 --> 00:06:51.800] And even that terminology is quite interesting to me.
[00:06:51.800 --> 00:07:09.240] So I first came across the choice of cooking fats being a priority in the nutritional world several years ago as part of an educational weight loss program, which aims to build healthy habits and to encourage a healthy relationship with food without the typical diet method of restricting or removing certain food types from your diet.
[00:07:09.240 --> 00:07:16.080] They suggest that cooking oils can be split into three categories: refined, virgin, or extra virgin, or cold-pressed.
[00:07:16.080 --> 00:07:19.920] I never quite know what the difference between virgin and extra virgin is.
[00:07:20.240 --> 00:07:22.800] It's processing, it's all about how it's processed, basically.
[00:07:22.880 --> 00:07:25.600] So, is extra virgin like ultra-processed?
[00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:27.040] No, I think the opposite.
[00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:28.560] Ah, less processed.
[00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:33.920] So, refined is more processed, virgin is more processed than an extra virgin, and extra virgin is less processed.
[00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:37.440] Like super virgins, you just get given a sesame.
[00:07:37.840 --> 00:07:38.560] There is a sesame.
[00:07:38.640 --> 00:07:39.600] There's a seed.
[00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:42.000] What does a sesame seed grow into?
[00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:43.360] A sesame plant.
[00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:43.760] Does it?
[00:07:43.760 --> 00:07:44.640] Because have you ever seen one?
[00:07:44.640 --> 00:07:45.520] I ever heard of one?
[00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:47.360] Where did we get sesame seeds from?
[00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:48.720] That's very much the question.
[00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:54.720] Unless sesame seeds are maybe as a seed form, they take this name, but when it grows, it's like a fucking pumpkin or something.
[00:07:54.720 --> 00:07:56.000] That's pumpkin seeds.
[00:07:56.960 --> 00:07:58.960] To the point.
[00:07:59.280 --> 00:08:00.880] No one's ever had a sesame.
[00:08:00.880 --> 00:08:02.720] Apart from Aladdin, he opened a sesame.
[00:08:02.720 --> 00:08:03.520] He did.
[00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:15.280] So they argued that extra virgin or cold-pressed oils have undergone less processing and therefore have more nutrients and fewer polyunsaturated fatty acid chains.
[00:08:15.280 --> 00:08:20.560] They reckon that more polyunsaturated fatty acids leads to more inflammation.
[00:08:20.560 --> 00:08:32.560] That's interesting because I remember late 80s, early 90s when every brand of kind of butter-type spread was going on about how it was high in polyunsaturate and low in saturated fat.
[00:08:32.560 --> 00:08:34.640] Which is because that was the health trend at the time.
[00:08:36.080 --> 00:08:45.920] They weren't necessarily critical of vegetable oils in particular because of the source, only that those oils are more likely to be refined and go through that refining process.
[00:08:45.920 --> 00:08:54.400] This they backed up with a detailed explanation of fatty acid chains and nods towards studies which they claimed back them up, but no specific citations.
[00:08:54.720 --> 00:09:01.720] They did comment that vegetable oil was possibly a bit of a useless label because very few vegetables are actually used to make cooking oils.
[00:09:01.720 --> 00:09:04.920] It's predominantly seeds, grains, or legumes.
[00:09:04.920 --> 00:09:19.640] But this story about cooking oil choice was a small part of a much wider program examining habit formation and food relationships, including the idea that a sustainable diet has to incorporate the things we love instead of restricting things we consider unhealthy.
[00:09:19.640 --> 00:09:25.880] Diet is the kind of what you eat big picture, not a thing that you go on in order to change something.
[00:09:26.520 --> 00:09:40.520] This particular programme also talked about how adding fat to the diet is really important, that including a portion of ideally healthy fat in each meal alongside a source of protein can help us feel more satisfied from a meal and reduce our need to snack or eat in excess.
[00:09:40.520 --> 00:09:50.520] It's a lesson that a lot of the intuitive eaters on social media will promote that instead of restricting certain food types, find ways to add to them to make a snack or meal more balanced or filling.
[00:09:50.520 --> 00:09:54.600] So say you really fancy some tortilla chips as a late afternoon snack.
[00:09:54.600 --> 00:10:02.840] Maybe you can add some Greek yogurt that you can dip your chips in for a bit of protein and some avocado for some healthy fat and now it's a more satisfying rounded meal.
[00:10:03.480 --> 00:10:09.960] The idea is that nothing is off limits, but if you want to eat less of a particular thing, just telling yourself to stick to willpower isn't usually sustainable.
[00:10:10.600 --> 00:10:13.320] As soon as you're tired or grumpy, your willpower drops.
[00:10:13.320 --> 00:10:24.280] And the theory is it's much easier to stick to a healthier eating model if you're not denying yourself the things you love and you're finding ways to make them more satisfying so you don't inhale a whole family-sized bag of tortilla chips without even noticing.
[00:10:24.280 --> 00:10:25.480] Full tuba Pringles.
[00:10:25.480 --> 00:10:26.360] That's where I go wrong.
[00:10:26.760 --> 00:10:27.240] I'll just.
[00:10:27.560 --> 00:10:30.200] Once I pop, you just oddly enough.
[00:10:30.680 --> 00:10:31.960] I am unable to stop.
[00:10:32.200 --> 00:10:37.560] I'm not really a big sort of crisps eater apart from when we get together and have drinks and hang out together.
[00:10:37.560 --> 00:10:38.440] And it's mindless, yeah.
[00:10:38.440 --> 00:10:39.800] And this is like, oh, there's crisps there.
[00:10:39.800 --> 00:10:40.680] Oh, there's crisps there.
[00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:44.800] The problem is, I have like a completionist mentality of like, oh, I can't leave stuff.
[00:10:44.800 --> 00:10:45.680] So, you know.
[00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:48.720] You've got to feel, you've got to get to the end-level boss of crisps.
[00:10:44.840 --> 00:10:50.960] Yeah, but I also have it with like food in the house.
[00:10:51.200 --> 00:10:57.200] Not in the sense I have to eat, but it's like if there's anything there that's like, oh, well, I'm going to have to eat that at some point.
[00:10:57.600 --> 00:10:58.320] There's no food with it.
[00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:00.000] So there's no time like the present.
[00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:09.120] No, of course it's like, well, what I'm going to have for lunch today, oh, well, we've only got the ends of this and the ends of that, so I'm guessing I'm eating that rather than I could have the other thing over here that's nice.
[00:11:09.120 --> 00:11:10.080] That's an opened.
[00:11:10.320 --> 00:11:16.320] But then the problem is then Nicola will have the nice thing as an opened, and I'll just end up like eating the scraggy ends of everything all the time.
[00:11:16.640 --> 00:11:25.360] No, I love a tube of Pringles, but every so often you can tell when the Pringles factory is running short on flavouring because you buy a tube of Pringles and it's like, there's no fucking flavour on any of these.
[00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:30.480] You're just giving me reconstituted potato here and then telling me this is Crisps.
[00:11:30.800 --> 00:11:32.080] I buy it for the flavour.
[00:11:32.240 --> 00:11:33.920] The Crisp is the flavor delivery method.
[00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:34.800] It's the delivery system.
[00:11:35.120 --> 00:11:36.160] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:11:36.160 --> 00:11:39.840] So I'm not passing comments specifically on whether these approaches are useful or not.
[00:11:39.840 --> 00:11:42.880] I think diet's very personal and we have to figure out what works for us.
[00:11:42.880 --> 00:11:44.160] But this is some of the context.
[00:11:44.160 --> 00:11:55.600] We have people offering a balanced position that is moving away from demonizing certain food groups and supporting sustainability and education, claiming to empower people to make healthy choices without fear mongering.
[00:11:55.600 --> 00:12:01.920] Some of those balanced positions are subtly smuggling in some fear-mongering, but that's not the topic for today.
[00:12:01.920 --> 00:12:03.760] That's a topic for another time.
[00:12:03.760 --> 00:12:07.920] In the meantime, social media has taken these sorts of concepts and built on them.
[00:12:07.920 --> 00:12:15.440] And now we've ratcheted up from cooking oil choice might be relevant to how we build our diet to seed oils are evil.
[00:12:15.440 --> 00:12:16.320] Yeah, yeah.
[00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:25.040] And we've moved from avoiding extreme fat restriction can be helpful when it comes to eating healthily in a sustainable way to animal fat is amazing, is the answer to all of our problems.
[00:12:25.040 --> 00:12:30.760] Every time you see you say seed oils, in my head, I picture an Irish bar, like seed dot dot doils.
[00:12:31.240 --> 00:12:33.080] I feel like, oh, seed oil has a lot better.
[00:12:33.080 --> 00:12:35.800] There's a lovely atmosphere in there, but you don't go in there on St.
[00:12:29.920 --> 00:12:36.200] Patrick's Day.
[00:12:36.440 --> 00:12:39.320] It's strange that it's become scored then.
[00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:42.520] It's become the phrase that we use now instead of vegetable oil.
[00:12:42.680 --> 00:12:43.720] It used to be vegetable oils.
[00:12:44.520 --> 00:12:46.840] I had no idea that those two things were in any way related.
[00:12:46.920 --> 00:12:47.800] They were the same thing.
[00:12:47.800 --> 00:12:50.760] I thought vegetable oils would just squeeze a potato hard enough.
[00:12:51.080 --> 00:12:54.680] Well, vegetable oils usually are quite often sunflower oil or rapeseed oil, right?
[00:12:54.680 --> 00:12:56.280] So they're from seeds.
[00:12:56.280 --> 00:13:05.160] So I don't know if the Americans use seed oil more naturally or if that's a change in how the language is peanut oil, I think in the US as well.
[00:13:05.560 --> 00:13:06.280] But that's not a seed.
[00:13:06.440 --> 00:13:07.720] It's like a can or something.
[00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:11.080] Well, there's canola oil, but I think canola oil is rapeseed oil.
[00:13:11.160 --> 00:13:13.080] Canola oil is rapeseed oil, yes.
[00:13:13.720 --> 00:13:15.000] We just typically rape seed oil.
[00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:16.440] We call all of those things vegetable.
[00:13:16.600 --> 00:13:17.080] Vegetable oil.
[00:13:17.240 --> 00:13:20.200] Yeah, so peanut oil would be a type of vegetable oil.
[00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:25.560] We'd only specify if we specifically needed gran oil or peanut oil.
[00:13:25.560 --> 00:13:31.080] I think five guys quite famously say all their stuff is peanut oil, which is why they have loose peanuts all over the shop.
[00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:31.560] Yes.
[00:13:31.560 --> 00:13:33.160] It's not because that's where they get the oil from.
[00:13:33.160 --> 00:13:35.080] It's to tell people peanut electrons peanut oil.
[00:13:35.240 --> 00:13:36.280] Don't fucking come in.
[00:13:37.080 --> 00:13:38.840] Everything in here is made of peanuts.
[00:13:38.840 --> 00:13:42.360] I thought they were just bolsting about what easy access they have to peanuts.
[00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:50.600] Take, for example, Troy Casey, certified health nut, his description, not mine.
[00:13:50.920 --> 00:13:51.400] Peanut oil.
[00:13:51.560 --> 00:13:52.360] Who says?
[00:13:53.320 --> 00:13:54.840] Do you make oil out of him?
[00:13:54.840 --> 00:13:59.400] He says, seed oils are industrial oils designed to help lubricate machine equipment.
[00:13:59.400 --> 00:14:04.760] He says canola is a genetically engineered modified plant, a bit of a redundant word in there.
[00:14:04.760 --> 00:14:11.000] And that these things are known as poofers, polyunsaturated fatty acids, which wreak havoc in the body and create imbalances.
[00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:12.920] I don't think you can call them out anymore.
[00:14:12.920 --> 00:14:18.400] I have only in the last few days seen the word poofer appearing to refer to polyunsaturated fatty acids.
[00:14:14.920 --> 00:14:20.400] Literally, only in the last few days I've seen that.
[00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:23.440] I've never, so I've come across it before.
[00:14:23.440 --> 00:14:26.080] It's an initialism I've come across before.
[00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:29.120] I've never seen it used as an acronym.
[00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:31.920] I've never seen it said as a word.
[00:14:31.920 --> 00:14:34.880] Do you think Americans pronounce it poofer and we should pronounce it pufa?
[00:14:34.880 --> 00:14:36.000] Like puma.
[00:14:38.080 --> 00:14:41.920] He says that these poofers, I do believe, are omega-6.
[00:14:41.920 --> 00:14:47.280] And so when the vegetables are up and the omega-3s or the meats are down, that creates imbalance in the system.
[00:14:47.280 --> 00:14:49.520] It can gum up our tissues.
[00:14:49.840 --> 00:14:54.800] He claims it's important to boost omega-3s, which then lower inflammation because we used to hunt and gather.
[00:14:54.800 --> 00:14:57.440] So this is more back to that way of life.
[00:14:57.440 --> 00:15:04.000] Meanwhile, Reviva coach Brian with a Y says these supposedly heart-healthy fats are not good for us at all.
[00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:12.160] He says this is because they're polyunsaturated fats and therefore they're very unstable and prone to oxidizing in our body, which he claims causes increased aging.
[00:15:12.160 --> 00:15:13.600] What's the alternative?
[00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:20.560] Brian says to cook with more butter, animal fats or coconut oils because these are saturated fats, which means they are more stable.
[00:15:20.560 --> 00:15:24.720] It's funny because this is diametrically opposite to the way things flipped.
[00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:32.880] Again, around late 80s, early 90s, when suddenly saturated animal fat was the worst thing you could have in the world and everything went polyunsaturated.
[00:15:32.880 --> 00:15:42.400] What's bad about that in particular is people will come away with the, well, science can't make its mind up because I remember growing up it was saturated fats are bad and now I'm being told that unsaturated fats are bad.
[00:15:42.880 --> 00:15:43.520] And I've seen videos.
[00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:45.520] Science, that's not making its mind up here.
[00:15:45.520 --> 00:15:49.440] Videos where people have been saying that we've just, we've been lied to for decades.
[00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:54.240] We've been lied to because we've been told that like big oil.
[00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:54.880] Not that big oil.
[00:15:55.760 --> 00:15:57.120] Big vegetable oil.
[00:15:57.440 --> 00:16:05.000] Revival coach Brian comments that polyunsaturated cooking oils have been promoted as healthy, while saturated fats labeled as unhealthy.
[00:16:05.320 --> 00:16:11.080] But he says it's the wrong way around and we've been lied to for decades, which is why we're seeing a decline in the health of the population.
[00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:12.600] So eat more lard.
[00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:13.400] Eat more lard.
[00:16:13.400 --> 00:16:14.920] More lard, more butter.
[00:16:14.920 --> 00:16:15.960] Beef tallow.
[00:16:16.440 --> 00:16:17.720] They bloody love beef tallow.
[00:16:17.800 --> 00:16:19.160] They bloody love the beef tallow.
[00:16:19.320 --> 00:16:20.200] They bloody do that.
[00:16:20.200 --> 00:16:22.680] All the trad wives, they're really into the beef tallow as well.
[00:16:22.920 --> 00:16:24.840] We'll come back to trad wives.
[00:16:24.840 --> 00:16:28.120] So, meanwhile, on the TikTok account, Total Health with Dr.
[00:16:28.120 --> 00:16:28.840] Nick, Dr.
[00:16:28.840 --> 00:16:29.400] Nick says...
[00:16:29.480 --> 00:16:29.640] Dr.
[00:16:29.720 --> 00:16:30.120] Nick.
[00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:30.440] Yeah.
[00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:31.640] Like off the Simpsons.
[00:16:32.680 --> 00:16:33.800] Don't call yourself Dr.
[00:16:33.800 --> 00:16:34.120] Nick.
[00:16:35.160 --> 00:16:35.400] Dr.
[00:16:35.400 --> 00:16:36.200] Nick is ruined.
[00:16:36.520 --> 00:16:36.920] Dr.
[00:16:36.920 --> 00:16:38.360] Nicholas, golfer or Dr.
[00:16:38.360 --> 00:16:41.080] Nicola, depending on who you are, but do not go for a Dr.
[00:16:41.080 --> 00:16:41.400] Nick.
[00:16:41.400 --> 00:16:41.640] Dr.
[00:16:41.640 --> 00:16:42.440] Nicky.
[00:16:42.440 --> 00:16:42.760] Dr.
[00:16:42.760 --> 00:16:47.240] Nick says that seed oils are super high in omega-6, and that's the reason that they're super inflammatory.
[00:16:47.240 --> 00:16:49.880] But omega-3 fats are anti-inflammatory.
[00:16:49.880 --> 00:17:00.840] His issue is that seed ores are apparently produced using dangerous methods using hexane and heat and pressure, which he says denatures the oil, making it rancid and therefore it's inflammatory to the body.
[00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:11.400] Not sure how the key factor here can both be the presence of omega-6 and that the oil has literally gone off, but that's what happens when we misattribute science and justify our weird beliefs.
[00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:11.800] Dr.
[00:17:11.800 --> 00:17:19.560] Nick goes further, insisting that seed oils stay in your body because cell membranes are made of fat and the fat gets into the membranes, making those cells toxic.
[00:17:19.560 --> 00:17:20.120] Okay.
[00:17:20.120 --> 00:17:20.440] Dr.
[00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:28.360] Nick thinks instead we should be using tallow from beef, lard, avocado oil, olive oil, coconut oil, or ghee, which is a clarified butter.
[00:17:28.680 --> 00:17:36.200] Other influencers, however, I think that olive oil is bad because it's often cut with seed oils, or else that olive oil is only fine if you're not heating it.
[00:17:36.200 --> 00:17:38.520] So, if you're using it on salad dressings and things.
[00:17:38.520 --> 00:17:46.000] I mean, you can tell that this is true and accurate and real because of the massive drop in life expectancy we've had over the last 30 years.
[00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:46.480] Yeah, exactly.
[00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:50.080] When we've suddenly started consuming an awful lot of it, hang on, that isn't true, is it?
[00:17:44.840 --> 00:17:51.200] None of that is actually the case.
[00:17:51.520 --> 00:17:56.480] I like that Alice said ghee, which is clarified butter, which means she's just clarified ghee.
[00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:03.280] I did that for your benefit because I knew that you would be like, I don't know what ghee is.
[00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:04.400] I know what ghee is.
[00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:04.960] Do you though?
[00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:05.760] I know what ghee is.
[00:18:05.760 --> 00:18:07.760] When I was, I did.
[00:18:08.080 --> 00:18:15.280] When I was at university, my housemate Ben bought like a massive vat of ghee because he cooks a lot of Indian food because his family's Indian.
[00:18:15.280 --> 00:18:20.160] And so he bought a massive vat of ghee and then he didn't really use it and it went off and went a bit mink or a bit ran.
[00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:22.720] Rancid ghee in a tub on top of a cupboard.
[00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:24.240] Plenty of omega-6 in it, though.
[00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:25.840] Lords, absolutely lords.
[00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:28.320] So you might recognize some of these talking points.
[00:18:28.320 --> 00:18:33.280] The idea that the very nature of processing a foodstuff is what leads it to cause harm.
[00:18:33.280 --> 00:18:36.240] This is straight out of the ultra-processed foods playbook.
[00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:38.400] But I think there's more to it than that.
[00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:41.680] The seed oil conversation has everything.
[00:18:41.680 --> 00:18:44.640] So let's go back to what Troy the Certified Health Nut said.
[00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:46.720] He says that seed oils are industrial oils.
[00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:51.360] He insists that canola oil is a GM plant and is used for lubricating machine equipment.
[00:18:51.360 --> 00:18:55.440] Canola oil, also known as rapeseed oil, has been around for thousands of years.
[00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:58.800] And we know it was used as a lamp fuel in the 16th century.
[00:18:58.800 --> 00:19:03.840] It is true that its use as a foodstuff came later than its use as a fuel source.
[00:19:03.840 --> 00:19:14.960] But take, for example, turmeric, that health food that many wellness influencers are a fan of, that was used as a dye before it was used in folk medicine and before we realized it was a tasty thing to eat as a spice.
[00:19:15.280 --> 00:19:18.720] Just because something is repurposed does not make it bad or dangerous.
[00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:21.600] And also, oh, it's used as a lubricant for engines.
[00:19:21.600 --> 00:19:24.880] Like, okay, I mean, lots of things could be used as a lubricant.
[00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:26.160] Like, butter can be used.
[00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:29.680] If you get a ring stuck on your finger, you can put butter on it to lubricate off.
[00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:30.840] That doesn't mean butter is bad for you.
[00:19:30.840 --> 00:19:31.720] It just means it's slippery.
[00:19:31.800 --> 00:19:32.280] It's useful.
[00:19:32.280 --> 00:19:32.520] Yeah.
[00:19:32.520 --> 00:19:32.840] Yeah, yeah.
[00:19:33.080 --> 00:19:35.160] Water is quite often used as an industrial lubricant.
[00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:36.360] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:38.040] So, very odd.
[00:19:38.040 --> 00:19:44.280] The rapeseed that we use to make canola oil is off quite often from GM crops, but usually just to make them resistant to pesticides.
[00:19:44.280 --> 00:19:51.480] And then we have this problem with making GM crops in that they then just spread their seeds elsewhere, and then now suddenly all of the crops are forgotten.
[00:19:51.480 --> 00:19:54.920] Yeah, they're less resistant to pesticides.
[00:19:54.920 --> 00:20:00.120] And it is used as a lubricant for machinery, but that doesn't mean that the food-grade stuff isn't safe to eat.
[00:20:00.120 --> 00:20:08.760] Like, we're not going to eat the stuff that they're using to lubricate machinery because they're going to have chemical-grade stuff, and we've got food-grade stuff when we want to eat it.
[00:20:09.160 --> 00:20:17.480] Depending on how they refine it, refining of some oils, you'll take different layers of it, and this layer you'll skim off and use for this thing, then refine it down, and this layer will be for something else.
[00:20:17.480 --> 00:20:23.400] And it's normally, I know it more about crude oil than I do about food oil, but I imagine it's a similar process.
[00:20:24.360 --> 00:20:27.800] So, in these sorts of views, we have plenty of conspiracism.
[00:20:27.800 --> 00:20:43.800] Some unspoken they have been manipulating our food and lying to us about it because it's cheaper to use the stuff that we use for machines or for whatever sinister reason that they're selling us something alternative to the natural beef tallow, etc.
[00:20:44.360 --> 00:20:46.920] But we also have misinterpreted science.
[00:20:46.920 --> 00:20:51.640] Sure, seed oils have proportionally more omega-6 than other cooking oil sources.
[00:20:51.640 --> 00:20:57.560] I found this really weird listening to videos of people talking about omega-6 because, like, omega-6 is good.
[00:20:57.560 --> 00:20:59.320] It's an essential fatty acid.
[00:20:59.320 --> 00:21:03.320] We need, like, I don't understand where they've got this idea that omega-6 is a bad thing.
[00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:05.000] That's the one from fish and stuff, isn't it?
[00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:08.200] Omega-3, more from fish sources.
[00:21:08.200 --> 00:21:09.480] So, it's an essential fatty acid.
[00:21:09.480 --> 00:21:11.320] Our body needs it and cannot produce it.
[00:21:11.320 --> 00:21:13.320] We need to get it from our diet.
[00:21:13.320 --> 00:21:25.440] Some people claim that the body converts one of the more common forms of omega-6, linolenic acid, into another fatty acid called arachidonic acid, which is a building block for inflammatory molecules.
[00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:28.400] But the evidence just doesn't stack up that this is happening in the body.
[00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:31.200] It is possible, it just doesn't really happen.
[00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:35.200] And omega-6 actually reduces inflammatory markers in the body.
[00:21:35.520 --> 00:21:37.360] But there's more to it than that.
[00:21:37.360 --> 00:21:42.000] Notice how the alternative sources come down to tallow or butter.
[00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:49.040] A lot of the influences on the seed oils are bad train are also those same influences who promote the carnivore diet.
[00:21:49.040 --> 00:21:49.680] Yeah.
[00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:58.320] And notice also that we've moved away from ketogenic diet to carnivore diet, just like we've moved away from vegetable fats to seed oils.
[00:21:58.320 --> 00:22:01.040] I don't think this shift in language is inconsequential.
[00:22:01.040 --> 00:22:05.360] I think it's related to a shift towards particular ideological positions.
[00:22:05.360 --> 00:22:09.680] Yeah, I didn't even realize that the ketogenic diet and carnivore diet are the same thing.
[00:22:09.680 --> 00:22:11.200] They're essentially the same thing.
[00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:14.400] Ketogenic is meat-based and carnivore diet is meat-based.
[00:22:14.480 --> 00:22:17.520] I sent you a claim about the ketogenic diet that we may look into in the future.
[00:22:17.520 --> 00:22:23.200] Yeah, and I don't think we've ever really done a deep dive on the ketogenic diet before, partly because the science of it is complicated.
[00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:33.760] It is a recommended diet for some health conditions, and it just will require me to actually dig into the science and figure out how to explain it properly without misrepresenting anything.
[00:22:33.760 --> 00:22:35.920] But it is on my list of things to talk about.
[00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:40.000] But yeah, ketogenic diet is meat-based, carnivore diet, meat-based.
[00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:45.760] They're very similar, if not exactly the same, depending on how different people interpret it.
[00:22:46.080 --> 00:23:00.000] Specifically, we're seeing trends towards alt-right talking points, traditional values, hyper-femininity for women and tried wife concepts, hyper-masculinity for men that we talked about on the show about the gym influencer type people.
[00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:08.600] The idea that we should upsticks and live on a homestead and eat real meat, especially raw meat, and cook using beef tallow.
[00:23:08.920 --> 00:23:19.240] Joe Rogan, in particular, has been talking about avoiding seed oil since 2011, linking it to healthy eating in an interview with MMA fighter Bo Nickel in October that year.
[00:23:19.240 --> 00:23:35.400] Meanwhile, Twitter user Carnivore Aurelius started talking about it in 2021 to over 300,000 Twitter followers, linking seed oil to an increase in obesity and cardiovascular disease, alongside tweets about traditional family values and the scam of feminism.
[00:23:35.400 --> 00:23:37.400] Yeah, and he's got 320,000 followers.
[00:23:37.400 --> 00:23:39.400] God, Twitter's been cooked for a while, hasn't it?
[00:23:39.720 --> 00:24:04.920] According to an article on Rolling Stone, Derek Beres, the co-author of the book Conspirituality, How New Age Conspiracy Theories Became a Health Threat, says he first started noticing whispers about seed oils being hazardous to your health when he saw Paul Saladino, aka Carnivore MD, an influencer with more than 2 million Instagram followers who advocates for a primarily animal-based diet, speaking about it on Joe Rogan's podcast.
[00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:08.440] That was a three-hour interview which took place in 2021.
[00:24:08.760 --> 00:24:11.240] Joe Rogan had already been talking about it before then.
[00:24:11.240 --> 00:24:13.720] Yeah, he's a bad guy and someone should do something about it.
[00:24:14.360 --> 00:24:20.760] So it's been an alt-right talking point for a while, but it seems like something's changed.
[00:24:21.080 --> 00:24:23.400] And part of that is that the political climate is shifting.
[00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:28.200] In 2025, we've got alt and far-right governments gaining power in more and more countries.
[00:24:28.200 --> 00:24:35.000] But I think part of the ubiquity of this talking point is also about the radicalization pipeline.
[00:24:35.320 --> 00:24:45.200] Whether by design or by consequence, the oil with which you cook your food is kind of a great way to radicalize people to a particular ideology.
[00:24:44.360 --> 00:24:51.120] Food is something we all consume and something that has been the subject of scrutiny for decades.
[00:24:51.440 --> 00:25:06.640] As health trends drift in and out of fashion, we're often in a cycle where what we choose to eat is seen as a signifier of wealth, political viewpoints, moral stance, even core parts of our personality and identity, like work ethic or selflessness.
[00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:14.480] Picky eating can be dismissed as selfishness, using pre-prepared foods considered laziness, choosing veganism seen as moralistic.
[00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:23.120] Never mind that buying lunch during the workday can be seen as luxury or frivolity depending on who you're talking to and how you're already perceived by society.
[00:25:23.760 --> 00:25:27.920] Fucking millennials and their avocado toast, meaning they can't buy a house, right?
[00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:33.280] But it's also something we have to think about multiple times a day, every single day.
[00:25:33.280 --> 00:25:54.880] Once you've managed to create a fear about a particular foodstuff, it can be very hard to break that fear and it can permeate into every moment of your day from what time you wake up, got to have enough time to prepare whole foods instead of eating ultra-processed foods, to what your bedtime routine looks like, got to prepare your lunch for tomorrow to save money and health on a shop-bought lunch.
[00:25:54.880 --> 00:26:07.920] Make it about the very fuel source that you cook your food with, and now you're scrutinizing and thinking about the fear-mongering position at every single meal, making fundamental decisions about fundamental choices.
[00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:11.040] It's easy to see how that can become an ideological position.
[00:26:11.040 --> 00:26:27.200] Create a fear and link it to something as basically fundamental as eating, is encouraging the thought of that fear on multiple occasions throughout the day, not just at meal times, but also, you know, when doing the food shopping or when meal prepping for the week ahead or when planning your day and where you're going to buy your food from.
[00:26:27.520 --> 00:26:33.160] You've now snuck a position into somebody's everyday life, every waking moment.
[00:26:33.160 --> 00:26:40.680] Now you're thinking about clean or traditional or masculine dietary choices multiple times a day, every single day.
[00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:47.400] And if you start to talk about it and feel dismissed when people say, Oh, but is cooking everything you eat in beef tallow really a good idea?
[00:26:47.400 --> 00:27:02.120] As people tend to do when it comes to food and health, because society encourages all to have and share opinions on other people's food choices, and now you might feel pushed away by the mainstream and spend more time consuming content and community from the people who share your viewpoint.
[00:27:02.120 --> 00:27:11.800] One minute it's about making healthy choices about food, then suddenly it's that eating meat is good for you, and then it's about rejecting climate change because that's why the vegans want you to reduce your meat consumption.
[00:27:11.800 --> 00:27:20.120] And now you're sneering at the ultra-processed foods that you find in the vegan diet when we're replacing chip fat with vegetable oil and making processed meat replacements.
[00:27:20.440 --> 00:27:23.880] And now maybe you should think about eating raw meats or drinking raw milk.
[00:27:23.880 --> 00:27:30.600] And wouldn't it be great if you could live on the homestead life where your wife wears pretty dresses and has dinner on the table when you get home from work?
[00:27:30.600 --> 00:27:32.120] And suddenly when RFK Jr.
[00:27:32.200 --> 00:27:45.480] comes after the seed oils, saying the American population is being unknowingly poisoned by them, it's easy to trust his understanding of the science because you've always known that seed oils are terrible and maybe he's right about the rise in autism and the need to control it.
[00:27:45.800 --> 00:27:57.080] I'm seeing it even at our events at Skeptics in the Pub, where new attendees who are interested in learning more about skepticism are just dropping seed oil discussion points into the conversation to see where we stand on it.
[00:27:57.080 --> 00:27:58.040] Wow.
[00:27:58.360 --> 00:28:03.720] The radicalization pipeline is a dangerous one, but it's not always easy to see or track.
[00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:08.280] It's easy to dismiss seed oil concerns as just a lack of scientific understanding.
[00:28:08.360 --> 00:28:12.440] Easy to assume that people are being misguided about health topics.
[00:28:12.440 --> 00:28:22.000] It's even easy to laugh at the alt-right's interest in seed oils as silly, as Andrew Tate did when he tweeted, I can tell you losers have never had real enemies.
[00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:25.920] You're afraid of sunflowers, you legit won't shut up about it.
[00:28:26.560 --> 00:28:35.040] But it seems clear to me that seed oil is a talking point that will easily draw more and more people into that alt-right radicalization pathway.
[00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:41.120] My next-door neighbour's got a dog.
[00:28:41.120 --> 00:28:41.760] Oh, really?
[00:28:41.760 --> 00:28:43.040] She's got a new dog.
[00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:44.800] I mean, it's quite sad in many ways.
[00:28:44.800 --> 00:28:46.320] Her husband died last year.
[00:28:46.320 --> 00:28:46.720] Okay.
[00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:49.360] And so she's got a dog to keep her company.
[00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:51.200] Is it a new dog or is it new to her?
[00:28:51.600 --> 00:28:53.120] It was a relatively new dog.
[00:28:53.120 --> 00:28:54.160] Okay, it wasn't a pre-owned dog.
[00:28:54.320 --> 00:28:55.440] I don't think it was a pre-owned dog.
[00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:56.240] It's like a second-hand dog.
[00:28:56.880 --> 00:28:57.840] Is it a puppy then?
[00:28:57.840 --> 00:28:58.560] It was a puppy.
[00:28:59.120 --> 00:29:00.160] I mean, we're all puppies.
[00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:00.800] He's growing up.
[00:29:00.800 --> 00:29:02.160] He's growing up now.
[00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:12.800] But he's like a shih tzu, but he's a shihzu with a fucking temper on him, as shihzus tend to do, a little yappy fucking bastard that he is, who constantly growls at me as I go up and down.
[00:29:12.800 --> 00:29:17.840] Like he gets very annoysy, very aggressive at me.
[00:29:17.840 --> 00:29:20.560] But she was out there and she goes, I've got a new dog.
[00:29:20.560 --> 00:29:21.440] I say, I can see that.
[00:29:21.440 --> 00:29:21.840] Yeah, yeah.
[00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:23.040] She keeps talking to me.
[00:29:23.040 --> 00:29:27.680] My neighbours keep talking to me like I'm a nice, friendly person.
[00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:30.480] And I do my best impression of going, oh, yeah, it's brilliant.
[00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:35.520] That's that's that's and then I go into the house and I say to Lana, leave me the fuck alone.
[00:29:35.520 --> 00:29:37.520] I always love talking to my neighbours.
[00:29:37.520 --> 00:29:38.720] We live very close to each other.
[00:29:38.720 --> 00:29:43.040] We can hear each other quite often and I always enjoy talking to them every single time.
[00:29:43.040 --> 00:29:43.840] Absolutely.
[00:29:43.840 --> 00:29:45.360] Yeah, brilliant, brilliant.
[00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:47.680] But she said to me, I've got a new dog.
[00:29:47.680 --> 00:29:48.960] I said, all right, I can see that.
[00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:51.200] I said, Can you guess what his name is?
[00:29:52.240 --> 00:29:53.120] How could you guess what his name is?
[00:29:53.920 --> 00:29:54.480] What am I?
[00:29:54.560 --> 00:29:55.840] Because a dog name could be anything.
[00:29:56.800 --> 00:29:57.920] Was the dog wearing anything?
[00:29:57.920 --> 00:29:59.200] Like, was he dressed as a frog?
[00:29:59.200 --> 00:30:00.600] In which case you go, is it Kermit?
[00:30:00.760 --> 00:30:01.960] Kermit, Kermit the dog.
[00:29:59.840 --> 00:30:03.880] No, that's nothing along those lines.
[00:30:04.120 --> 00:30:09.240] And it's because you can even give a dog a human name, like Sam or Ben or something like that.
[00:30:09.400 --> 00:30:13.560] To the point where I'm suspicious of humans called Sam and Ben, because that's a dog's name, mate.
[00:30:13.560 --> 00:30:14.120] You can give it a name.
[00:30:14.600 --> 00:30:16.840] I did once meet a dog called Dave.
[00:30:16.840 --> 00:30:17.800] That's fine.
[00:30:18.680 --> 00:30:19.240] That is weird.
[00:30:19.320 --> 00:30:20.920] That's a very unusual name for Dave.
[00:30:21.400 --> 00:30:23.800] David, and they were nicknaming me it to diff.
[00:30:23.800 --> 00:30:24.200] I don't know.
[00:30:24.440 --> 00:30:25.400] What was on his passport?
[00:30:25.720 --> 00:30:35.480] So found out the dog's name was Dave because the guy was running, the dog was running towards the direction that I was in, and the guy was running after the dog and shouting what sounded like Daisy, Daisy.
[00:30:35.480 --> 00:30:35.720] Right.
[00:30:36.120 --> 00:30:36.840] Sounds like Davey.
[00:30:37.080 --> 00:30:38.440] Turns out it was Davey.
[00:30:38.840 --> 00:30:40.360] The dog was called Dave.
[00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:44.280] If the dog was called Dave, don't call it Davey because then that's two separate different noises.
[00:30:44.280 --> 00:30:46.200] It's not going to know you're calling it a different name.
[00:30:46.200 --> 00:30:47.960] It won't know that Dave and Davey are linked necessarily.
[00:30:48.120 --> 00:30:51.160] Lupin knows about a million names for himself.
[00:30:51.160 --> 00:30:52.600] It's the noise, it's the sound, isn't it?
[00:30:52.600 --> 00:30:53.880] The intonation rather than the actual noise.
[00:30:54.200 --> 00:30:55.640] Davy does include the word Dave.
[00:30:56.040 --> 00:31:00.200] Lupin does know, like, he knows, like, Lupin can retain lots of different words.
[00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:08.600] He's a reasonably intelligent dog, so he knows that there are a collection of names that will be used about him that he knows are about him, including Belle End.
[00:31:11.480 --> 00:31:13.240] Come here, you little fucker.
[00:31:13.560 --> 00:31:14.760] All of those.
[00:31:14.760 --> 00:31:17.480] But Micah only knows her one name.
[00:31:17.480 --> 00:31:19.480] She's forgotten the name she had when we got her.
[00:31:19.480 --> 00:31:20.040] Yeah.
[00:31:20.040 --> 00:31:23.160] But you can get, like, dogs will have like human names.
[00:31:23.320 --> 00:31:23.640] Human names.
[00:31:24.120 --> 00:31:25.640] It's weird when they call a rank.
[00:31:25.640 --> 00:31:27.240] If you give them a rank, then it's weird.
[00:31:27.560 --> 00:31:28.760] Like Colonel Franklin.
[00:31:28.840 --> 00:31:29.320] Like Colonel.
[00:31:29.320 --> 00:31:30.360] I think Colonel's too far.
[00:31:30.360 --> 00:31:30.600] Yeah.
[00:31:30.600 --> 00:31:30.840] Yeah.
[00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:33.320] Maybe there's some ranks as well, like general.
[00:31:33.320 --> 00:31:33.720] No.
[00:31:33.880 --> 00:31:35.560] I don't think you can have a dog that was a general.
[00:31:35.560 --> 00:31:37.560] I mean, private, no.
[00:31:37.880 --> 00:31:39.320] Maybe you can only have a mid-rank.
[00:31:40.760 --> 00:31:41.960] Colonel's maybe sergeant.
[00:31:41.960 --> 00:31:43.800] Sergeant, I can see a sergeant.
[00:31:44.040 --> 00:31:50.080] A little bulldog called Sergeant something or otherwise being all buff and doggy.
[00:31:50.560 --> 00:31:57.520] But yeah, and also dogs can have odd esoteric names like Lupin and things like that, where it's a little bit more unusual.
[00:31:57.520 --> 00:32:01.760] My cat, one of my cats, is called Hubert Cumberdale, which is not.
[00:32:01.760 --> 00:32:03.920] I mean, it could be a person's name, in fairness.
[00:32:03.920 --> 00:32:06.320] There could be a real human being called Hubert Cumberdale.
[00:32:06.320 --> 00:32:07.920] But she said, guess what his name is?
[00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:09.360] And I was like, I don't fucking know.
[00:32:09.360 --> 00:32:12.720] And she goes, Eric.
[00:32:13.040 --> 00:32:13.760] And I went, all right.
[00:32:13.760 --> 00:32:14.800] And then she went bad.
[00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:16.320] No, it's not.
[00:32:16.640 --> 00:32:17.760] That was a lie.
[00:32:18.080 --> 00:32:18.960] What is she doing?
[00:32:18.960 --> 00:32:19.760] Wait, what?
[00:32:19.760 --> 00:32:21.440] She goes, it's Ernie.
[00:32:21.440 --> 00:32:22.800] And I was like, all right, okay.
[00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:25.120] And what it is, she's got Morcombe and Wise in her head.
[00:32:25.120 --> 00:32:27.680] That's why she's called the dog Ernie.
[00:32:27.680 --> 00:32:30.480] And then, but she's Morcom and Wise, also known as Eric and Ernie.
[00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:30.960] Eric and Ernie.
[00:32:31.040 --> 00:32:33.040] And so she's got, he's called Eric.
[00:32:33.040 --> 00:32:33.680] No, he's not.
[00:32:33.680 --> 00:32:34.320] It's the other one.
[00:32:37.120 --> 00:32:38.480] So it's like Ernie, the little shit.
[00:32:38.560 --> 00:32:40.560] Has she thought about getting a second dog?
[00:32:41.040 --> 00:32:41.840] I mean, it would make sense.
[00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:45.840] What should I call it?
[00:32:46.640 --> 00:32:48.640] You'd have to name it after a different double act, wouldn't you?
[00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:50.800] You have to call it like Eddie, like Eddie Large.
[00:32:50.800 --> 00:32:58.720] Or Ball as a canon and Ronnie, but not mention which one of the two Ronnies it was named after.
[00:32:59.200 --> 00:33:00.080] Could be either of them.
[00:33:00.080 --> 00:33:02.000] I mean, surely he's Barker.
[00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:06.480] You'd think that, but no, no.
[00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:11.200] But yeah, this little fucking shitty dog that keeps growling at me, he thinks he's a wolf still.
[00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:14.080] He still thinks he's there terrifying me away.
[00:33:14.560 --> 00:33:19.280] Genetically engineered by an American cryptocurrency company to think he's a wolf these days.
[00:33:19.520 --> 00:33:20.320] They brought him back.
[00:33:20.320 --> 00:33:21.120] He's a wolf now.
[00:33:21.120 --> 00:33:22.800] He's not just a slightly modified dog.
[00:33:22.800 --> 00:33:23.440] Seriously.
[00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:25.280] But the little fucker keeps escaping.
[00:33:25.280 --> 00:33:28.320] She lets him out into the front garden and he keeps escaping.
[00:33:28.640 --> 00:33:30.840] We don't know how, but he gets out into the street.
[00:33:31.160 --> 00:33:37.720] So she's now put chicken wire all around her house to stop the dog escaping on the logic that he was getting out under the fence.
[00:33:37.720 --> 00:33:43.000] And it's like, maybe it's the massive two-foot gap underneath your front gate that he's getting out of.
[00:33:44.120 --> 00:33:47.000] You know, just call me fucking psychic.
[00:33:47.000 --> 00:33:47.480] Maybe it's.
[00:33:47.560 --> 00:33:50.200] I've not seen him do it, but it seems to make sense to me.
[00:33:50.600 --> 00:33:51.320] But he escaped.
[00:33:51.320 --> 00:33:57.480] He got out into the street, was caught by the dog pound dog catcher, which I didn't even know was still a thing.
[00:33:57.640 --> 00:34:02.200] But apparently he was caught by the dog catcher, who then drove him to Telford.
[00:34:02.520 --> 00:34:03.640] And it's like, why?
[00:34:03.880 --> 00:34:04.520] A little trip.
[00:34:04.520 --> 00:34:10.440] Why do they drive him to because they then got a phone call from the people in Telford saying, we've got your dog here.
[00:34:10.440 --> 00:34:12.280] And she had to drive to Telford.
[00:34:12.280 --> 00:34:13.000] How bizarre.
[00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:13.880] To get her dog.
[00:34:13.880 --> 00:34:15.160] What if she didn't have a car?
[00:34:15.160 --> 00:34:18.840] And it's like that's a dog napper.
[00:34:19.160 --> 00:34:21.000] He's kidnapped the dog and he's holding it around.
[00:34:21.320 --> 00:34:21.800] It might have been.
[00:34:21.800 --> 00:34:23.080] It might have been a dog ransom.
[00:34:23.080 --> 00:34:25.560] She had to pay money to release him from the dog catcher.
[00:34:26.120 --> 00:34:27.400] That is a ransom at this point.
[00:34:27.400 --> 00:34:29.160] But no, she had to get a dog from the driver down.
[00:34:29.160 --> 00:34:30.680] She's got a abandoned warehouse.
[00:34:31.000 --> 00:34:32.040] Or the middle of the park.
[00:34:32.440 --> 00:34:33.480] Either end of a bridge.
[00:34:33.800 --> 00:34:40.040] It's like you bring the dog and the money and we'll swap in the middle of the bridge so nobody can see.
[00:34:40.040 --> 00:34:42.840] In fairness, she's got this dog initially for company.
[00:34:42.840 --> 00:34:44.600] Obviously, the dog thinks he's there for protection.
[00:34:44.840 --> 00:34:48.200] She doesn't realize he's there for company if he keeps fucking off.
[00:34:48.600 --> 00:34:51.480] Since the dog has been there, no burglaries on our street.
[00:34:51.480 --> 00:34:51.720] Wow.
[00:34:52.440 --> 00:34:53.160] He's doing a good job.
[00:34:53.880 --> 00:34:57.560] I'm pretty sure that it was Micah barking that stopped.
[00:34:57.880 --> 00:35:07.480] So we had an attempt to break in a little while ago, a few years ago, and I think it was Micah barking at three o'clock in the morning that disturbed them, and they left and didn't get into the house.
[00:35:07.960 --> 00:35:09.960] Micah has prevented all sorts of things that way.
[00:35:09.960 --> 00:35:14.960] Burglaries, friendships forming, deliveries.
[00:35:14.600 --> 00:35:17.440] She's a particularly barky dog.
[00:35:22.160 --> 00:35:24.960] So, tickets for QED are still available.
[00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:28.400] You can find more information about that at QEDcon.org.
[00:35:28.400 --> 00:35:34.960] Tickets are continuing to hurtle out of the door, and it's definitely something that you should get your hands on as soon as humanly possible.
[00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:38.880] You should check out our website as well because it is entirely possible that we have announced more speakers.
[00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:40.720] There's going to be loads of new stuff announced, I'm sure.
[00:35:41.520 --> 00:35:45.360] We're recording this quite far in advance, so we don't know what those announcements are yet.
[00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:48.960] But check out our website, you might find out that somebody exciting is speaking for us.
[00:35:49.040 --> 00:35:51.520] Well, definitely, somebody as exciting is speaking for us.
[00:35:51.520 --> 00:35:55.360] So, for listeners who have missed this, this is going to be the final QED.
[00:35:55.840 --> 00:35:57.920] This is the last of the QEDs.
[00:35:57.920 --> 00:36:03.440] And so, this is your final opportunity to come to a QED event, to the best skeptical conference in the world.
[00:36:03.440 --> 00:36:04.400] And I make no apologies.
[00:36:04.400 --> 00:36:06.640] According to lots of people, including me.
[00:36:06.640 --> 00:36:09.280] I've not been to many others, but I know ours is the fucking business.
[00:36:10.480 --> 00:36:11.360] So, there we go.
[00:36:11.360 --> 00:36:13.040] But you should definitely come along to QED.
[00:36:13.040 --> 00:36:14.480] And as I say, it's going to be the last event.
[00:36:14.480 --> 00:36:16.720] So, this is your last opportunity to do so.
[00:36:16.720 --> 00:36:20.240] It's going to be in central Manchester at the Mercure Piccadilly Hotel.
[00:36:20.240 --> 00:36:20.880] The classic.
[00:36:20.880 --> 00:36:29.600] We're going to be running the event from the 25th and the 26th of October as the free skepticamp event on the 24th, which is the Friday beforehand.
[00:36:29.600 --> 00:36:32.880] There almost certainly is going to be some activity going on on the Thursday as well.
[00:36:32.880 --> 00:36:33.440] Oh, yeah.
[00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:35.120] It's going to be an absolutely brilliant time.
[00:36:35.120 --> 00:36:38.160] It's going to be the best skeptical party you've ever been to.
[00:36:38.160 --> 00:36:39.440] We have free childcare.
[00:36:39.440 --> 00:36:43.680] If you're saying to that, oh, I'd love to go, but I can't, you know, I need to get a babysitter.
[00:36:43.680 --> 00:36:44.160] Don't worry.
[00:36:44.160 --> 00:36:45.600] We have free childcare there.
[00:36:45.600 --> 00:36:50.000] You could be like, oh, it sounds really good, but big, loud, skeptical party.
[00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:50.640] It's not my thing.
[00:36:50.640 --> 00:36:51.600] I'm a bit autistic.
[00:36:51.600 --> 00:36:54.320] And, you know, we've got a quiet space where you can go and hang out.
[00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:58.480] You could be like, I'm in a completely other country and it's impossible for me to get there.
[00:36:58.480 --> 00:36:59.440] We've got it online.
[00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:00.120] Online tickets.
[00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:01.320] Highly recommend the online.
[00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:06.200] We're going to be giving you the main stage, the panel room, the power room and the podcast room.
[00:37:06.360 --> 00:37:09.560] So we have three different streams you'll get for your £49.
[00:37:09.560 --> 00:37:10.120] Yeah.
[00:37:10.120 --> 00:37:15.640] So tickets to that are £179 and they are available now at qdcon.org.
[00:37:15.960 --> 00:37:20.200] Also, for Liverpool Skeptics in the pub, we have a social event which is a week today.
[00:37:20.200 --> 00:37:21.560] That's on the 5th of June.
[00:37:21.560 --> 00:37:23.000] That's taking place in Dr.
[00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:23.800] Duncan's on St.
[00:37:23.800 --> 00:37:24.440] John's Lane.
[00:37:24.840 --> 00:37:26.360] But neither of you are going to be there.
[00:37:26.600 --> 00:37:28.280] I am going to be in Croatia.
[00:37:28.280 --> 00:37:29.960] And I'm going to be in Northern Cyprus.
[00:37:29.960 --> 00:37:30.440] That's good.
[00:37:30.440 --> 00:37:32.840] So this is the point where I take over the group again.
[00:37:33.960 --> 00:37:38.120] I'm going to come on, put my foot down, vote you off the board in our finish.
[00:37:38.120 --> 00:37:38.280] Yeah.
[00:37:38.600 --> 00:37:40.600] Well, they haven't even fucking turned up, have they?
[00:37:40.600 --> 00:37:42.040] This is absolute long game.
[00:37:42.040 --> 00:37:44.600] That's what we've been the plan the whole time.
[00:37:44.920 --> 00:37:46.680] But no, you should definitely come along to that.
[00:37:46.680 --> 00:37:47.960] That's going to be a fantastic time.
[00:37:47.960 --> 00:37:48.760] As I say, that's Dr.
[00:37:48.760 --> 00:37:49.480] Duncan's on St.
[00:37:49.480 --> 00:37:50.120] John's Lane.
[00:37:50.120 --> 00:37:51.400] That is from 8 p.m.
[00:37:51.720 --> 00:37:53.960] And if you're in the Liverpool area, come along to that.
[00:37:53.960 --> 00:37:56.920] If you are in Cyprus or where were you going?
[00:37:56.920 --> 00:38:00.920] I'm going to be in Dubrovnik and then Split and then on an island in between.
[00:38:00.920 --> 00:38:01.320] Okay.
[00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:05.880] So if you're in either of those locations, don't come because it's a bit of a hike.
[00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:08.760] It is, but if you're in the Liverpool area, you should definitely come along to that.
[00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:09.880] That's going to be fantastic.
[00:38:09.880 --> 00:38:12.040] Aside from that, then I think that is all we have time for.
[00:38:12.040 --> 00:38:12.600] I think it is.
[00:38:12.600 --> 00:38:15.080] All that remains then is for you to thank Marsh for coming along today.
[00:38:15.080 --> 00:38:15.560] Cheers.
[00:38:15.560 --> 00:38:16.520] Thank you to Alice.
[00:38:16.520 --> 00:38:17.000] Thank you.
[00:38:17.000 --> 00:38:19.560] We have been Skeptics with a K, and we will see you next time.
[00:38:19.560 --> 00:38:20.280] Bye now.
[00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:21.320] Bye.
[00:38:26.120 --> 00:38:31.160] Skeptics with a K is produced by Skeptic Media in association with the Merseyside Skeptic Society.
[00:38:31.160 --> 00:38:40.600] For questions or comments, email podcast at skepticswithakay.org, and you can find out more about Merseyside Skeptics at merseyside skeptics.org.uk.