Conversations with Tyler

Conversations with Tyler 2025 Retrospective

December 23, 2025

Key Takeaways Copied to clipboard!

  • The 2025 production of *Conversations with Tyler* increased significantly to 36 episodes, largely enabled by the efficiency gains from using Large Language Models in the preparation process. 
  • Tyler Cowen's favorite episodes of 2025 were often the single-subject deep dives, which he found more rewarding to prepare for and learn from, despite them not correlating with the most popular episodes. 
  • The most popular episodes of the 2025 season of *Conversations with Tyler* were heavily driven by name recognition, with Sam Altman, Ezra Klein, and Steven Pinker taking the top three spots, illustrating the Matthew effect in podcast listenership. 
  • Tyler primarily spends time on planes reading books (80-85% of the time) and avoids listening to podcasts during his own driving, preferring satellite radio or conversation. 
  • Tyler views Oman as a historically significant civilization in the Gulf region, worth visiting for its history, scenery, and safety, despite not being a primary food destination. 
  • The hosts concluded the retrospective by thanking the show's donors and the core production team, emphasizing the personal importance of continuing the Conversations with Tyler podcast. 

Segments

Podcast Anniversary and Donations
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(00:00:04)
  • Key Takeaway: Conversations with Tyler is celebrating 10 years, having produced over 250 episodes, and relies on listener contributions to continue new episodes every other week.
  • Summary: The podcast is marking its 10th anniversary, having featured guests from Margaret Atwood to Sam Altman. Listener contributions are solicited to maintain the production schedule, which includes new episodes, full transcripts, and meetups. Donor benefits for contributions before January 1st, 2026, range from anniversary swag to a private dinner for top-tier donors.
2025 Episode Volume Review
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(00:01:52)
  • Key Takeaway: The hosts increased the episode output in 2025 to 36 episodes, exceeding the official bi-weekly schedule by effectively producing three episodes per month.
  • Summary: Tyler and Jeff Holmes review the 2025 retrospective, noting the increase in episode count, which is the most ever released. Tyler felt the quality remained high, estimating only three out of 36 episodes were not great. The increased output is noted alongside the ongoing Marginal Revolution podcast, which is in its second season.
Underrated Episode Picks
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(00:04:07)
  • Key Takeaway: Single-subject deep dives, such as those on Buddhism (Donald Lopez) or Saudi Arabia (David Commons), were identified as some of the best, though they require significantly more preparation time.
  • Summary: Tyler highlights Johnny Steinberg, Ian Leslie (on The Beatles), and Amy Austin (YouTuber) as underrated episodes, noting the Austin conversation originated from a listener question about video games. The single-subject episodes, like the one with Donald Lopez on Buddhism, were praised for their depth, though the prep for the Buddhism episode took Tyler four to five months.
AI Impact on Production
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(00:12:04)
  • Key Takeaway: Large Language Models significantly changed the Conversations with Tyler production function by saving substantial time and money on research, enabling the increased episode count.
  • Summary: The biggest AI surprise was the reasoning capability of the O3 model, which Tyler considered near AGI by older definitions. LLMs were crucial for prep work, such as helping Tyler read 30 books on Buddhism efficiently by answering specific queries. While editing saw marginal improvements from ML tools, the primary impact was on research and guest sourcing.
Magnus Carlsen Episode Status
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(00:15:04)
  • Key Takeaway: The planned interview with Magnus Carlsen was postponed due to the recent birth of his child, but Tyler remains optimistic about rescheduling, giving it a 50-50 chance of happening.
  • Summary: Tyler had a positive dinner meeting with Magnus Carlsen, who expressed interest in the interview. The scheduling conflict was due to imperfect timing related to the new baby. Tyler also mentioned Caruana and Viswanathan Anand as other desirable chess guests, noting some top players are too narrow or have annoying personalities.
Hotel Selection Criteria
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(00:17:07)
  • Key Takeaway: Tyler prioritizes a swimming pool and sufficient in-room electrical outlets when selecting or evaluating hotels, finding the pool more than five times more valuable than a gym.
  • Summary: Most of Tyler’s hotel stays are arranged for him during events, and these are typically better than his self-selected options. His primary concerns are the availability of a pool for daily swimming and having enough outlets for his electronics. He finds operating modern showers and turning off all lights increasingly difficult in high-end, event-chosen hotels.
Influence and Honesty
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(00:18:35)
  • Key Takeaway: Tyler believes he has become more willing to press guests on points he finds egregiously incorrect, citing an instance with Alison Gopnik regarding IQ heritability, suggesting he is potentially more honest, not more cautious.
  • Summary: When asked if growing influence made him more cautious, Tyler suggests listeners should judge based on 10 years of data. He notes that people around him may be more hesitant to challenge him due to his status. He cites pressing Alison Gopnik harder than he might have a decade ago as evidence of increased directness.
Tariff Policy and Supreme Court
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(00:20:10)
  • Key Takeaway: Tyler predicted the Supreme Court would likely rule against Trump’s tariff authority, suggesting that while national security tariffs might remain, arbitrary tariffs based on executive fiat are likely to end.
  • Summary: The question concerned what would cause the US to change course on tariffs, with the Supreme Court hearing a relevant case on the day of recording. Tyler dismissed the argument that tariffs are purely regulatory, noting historical precedent suggests otherwise. He also noted that recent election results might motivate the Republican Congress to resist Trump’s unilateral actions.
Productive AI X-Risk Dialogue
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(00:21:10)
  • Key Takeaway: Productive dialogue on AI risks requires the concerned community to develop a formal, peer-reviewed literature, as current online discourse lacks the necessary scrutiny found in established scientific fields.
  • Summary: Tyler finds the current discourse between AI risk proponents and skeptics depressing because the former refuses to develop a literature subject to peer review. He argues that this rigorous method, proven effective in fields like climate change analysis, is necessary to test critical questions. He even offered to referee papers for free, noting that relying solely on blog commentary is insufficient.
Value of Process Over Outcome
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(00:25:14)
  • Key Takeaway: The process of acquiring knowledge or skill remains super important, even in a hypothetical future where Neuralink-type devices could instantly implant world knowledge.
  • Summary: Tyler expressed uncertainty about a distant future where world knowledge is instantly uploaded, calling it a metaphysical question. He strongly believes the human process is valuable, using writing as a simpler example where constant practice is necessary despite LLMs’ capabilities. The journey, not just the destination, holds inherent value.
Tyler’s Interview Style Adoption
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(00:26:18)
  • Key Takeaway: Few people copy Tyler’s interview style because it demands extensive preparation from a lifetime of broad reading, and requires a rare personality mix of being both a strong guest and a willing interviewer.
  • Summary: Tyler suggests his style might not be good for others and requires significant intellectual groundwork. He notes that many impressive guests lack the desire to switch roles and become the interviewer. Furthermore, his style often involves offering his own opinions when asked, which is an important, though sometimes polarizing, component.
Uncontrollable Laughter
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(00:28:44)
  • Key Takeaway: Tyler claims to have never experienced uncontrollable laughter in his life, suggesting that extreme emotional highs are not part of his equilibrium.
  • Summary: Tyler states that nothing, not even the funniest comedy show he heard (Louis C.K. live), has ever brought him to uncontrollable laughter. He views this as consistent with his generally steady emotional state, lacking extreme highs or lows. He speculates that uncontrollable laughter often arises from shared, synchronous experiences with another person.
MR Moderation and Regulation
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(00:31:03)
  • Key Takeaway: Tyler views content moderation on platforms he does not own, like Meta, as the platform owner’s prerogative, not censorship, and applies this view to his own moderation of the Marginal Revolution comments section.
  • Summary: Tyler is unbothered when large tech companies remove content, asserting they own the platform and can set the rules. He applies a similar principle to moderating Marginal Revolution, deleting comments that do not improve discourse, such as those focused on Trump that fall outside previous guidelines. He believes this moderation improves the overall experience and discourse quality.
2015 Movie Picks Review
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(00:35:40)
  • Key Takeaway: Tyler considered 2015 the worst year for movies in a long time, with Red Army (documentary on Soviet hockey) being the best film he knew of that year.
  • Summary: Many of Tyler’s 2015 movie picks, including Ex Machina and Inside Out, have not aged well for him, though he acknowledges Ex Machina has become seminal. He highly praised the documentary Red Army for its compelling narrative about the Soviet hockey team. He prefers reading Shakespeare to watching screen adaptations, citing Chimes at Midnight as his favorite Shakespearean film.
2015 Nonfiction Book Winners
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(00:40:38)
  • Key Takeaway: The best nonfiction book of 2015 was Robert Toombs’ The English and Their History, which generated significant positive feedback from readers seeking similar works.
  • Summary: Tyler listed 27 or 28 nonfiction books from 2015, with Toombs’ English history book being the clear winner. Other highly regarded works included Ashley Vance’s biography of Elon Musk and Charles Moore’s detailed biography of Margaret Thatcher. He noted that 2015 was a stellar year for fiction, contrasting sharply with the poor movie selection.
2015 Fiction and Music Highlights
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(00:43:25)
  • Key Takeaway: Michel Houellebecq’s Submission was deemed the most classic work of fiction from 2015, while the year represented a peak for rap and R&B featuring Kanye West, Frank Ocean, and Kendrick Lamar.
  • Summary: Submission is considered a work of philosophy that rewards rereading, and Tyler read it first in German. He noted that the 2015 period was a ‘second golden age’ for rap/R&B, though he feels that era has since concluded. Kamasi Washington’s The Epic was his top jazz album pick for the year.
Tyler’s Travel Habits
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(00:54:37)
  • Key Takeaway: When traveling, Tyler spends the vast majority of his time on planes reading books, and he avoids listening to audio content while driving, preferring conversation or satellite radio.
  • Summary: In planes, Tyler dedicates 80-85% of his time to reading books, only using Wi-Fi for email when available. He has not experienced long car rides (over two or three hours) in the last 10 years where he was not driving. When driving, he listens almost exclusively to satellite radio unless he is in conversation with someone.
Final 2025 Popularity Reveal
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(00:50:17)
  • Key Takeaway: The 2025 top episodes confirmed Tyler’s prediction, with Sam Altman at number one, followed by Ezra Klein at number two, demonstrating a strong Matthew effect favoring celebrity guests.
  • Summary: The final tally showed Sam Altman as the top episode, followed by Ezra Klein at number two, and Steven Pinker at number three, confirming the dominance of celebrity recognition. David Commons on Saudi Arabia was a surprising outlier, ranking seventh despite Tyler expecting it to be unpopular. The hosts expressed a desire to counteract this celebrity bias in future years.
Travel Time Activities Query
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(00:54:37)
  • Key Takeaway: Tyler dedicates 80-85% of his time on Wi-Fi-enabled flights to reading books.
  • Summary: A Mercatus scholar submitted a question regarding how Tyler spends time during travel. On planes, Tyler is almost always reading, dedicating 80-85% of his time to books, especially when Wi-Fi is available for email catch-up. For driving, he listens to satellite radio unless he is conversing with a passenger, explicitly avoiding audio content like podcasts.
Oman Travel Impressions
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(00:55:58)
  • Key Takeaway: Oman is valued for its grand past, impressive National Museum, safety, and gorgeous scenery, not its cuisine.
  • Summary: Tyler planned a three-day visit to Oman, noting it was one of the Gulf states with a proper civilization, historically controlling Zanzibar in the 19th century. He finds the National Museum beautiful and the country safe, comfortable, and English-friendly. The primary reasons for visiting are the scenery and Oman’s historical importance, as the food is not a main draw.
Donor and Staff Acknowledgements
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(00:57:03)
  • Key Takeaway: The show relies on listener donations and a dedicated core production team for its continuation.
  • Summary: The hosts thanked numerous named donors who contributed above a certain amount to support the show. Tyler expressed gratitude for the positive listener response to the recent campaign, noting the importance of this support for continuing the podcast. A list of core CWT production staff members, including Dallas Floor and Sam Allberger, were also recognized for their work.