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[00:00:00.480 --> 00:00:07.360] Look, payday is awesome, but running payroll, calculating taxes and deductions, staying compliant, that's not easy.
[00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:09.360] Unless, of course, you have Gusto.
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[00:00:18.400 --> 00:00:25.600] Plus, you can offer benefits like 401k, health insurance, and workers' comp, and it makes onboarding new employees a breeze.
[00:00:25.600 --> 00:00:28.320] We love it so much, we really do use it ourselves.
[00:00:28.320 --> 00:00:34.720] And we have four years, and I personally recommend you give it a try, no matter how small your business is.
[00:00:34.720 --> 00:00:38.880] And to sweeten the deal, just for listening today, you also get three months free.
[00:00:38.880 --> 00:00:41.360] Go to gusto.com/slash beingboss.
[00:00:41.360 --> 00:00:45.120] That's gusto.com/slash beingboss.
[00:00:46.720 --> 00:00:54.480] Welcome to Being Boss, a podcast for creatives, business owners, and entrepreneurs who want to take control of their work and live life on their own terms.
[00:00:54.480 --> 00:01:09.440] I'm your host, Emily Thompson, and in this episode, I'm joined by Book PR Pro and boss friend Dana Kay to talk about building and maintaining company culture so that you, your employees, and your customers are always taken care of.
[00:01:09.440 --> 00:01:14.960] You can find all the tools, books, and links we reference on the show notes at www.beingboss.club.
[00:01:14.960 --> 00:01:19.760] And if you like this episode, be sure to subscribe to the show and share us with a friend.
[00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:29.520] Dana Kay is a lifelong entrepreneur who believes in the power of storytelling and authentic personal branding.
[00:01:29.520 --> 00:01:37.280] In 2009, she founded K Publicity Inc., a boutique PR company specializing in publishing and entertainment.
[00:01:37.280 --> 00:01:45.680] Known for her innovative ideas and knowledge of current trends, she coaches her clients on how to identify and establish their unique personal brands.
[00:01:45.680 --> 00:01:55.440] In 2016, Dana launched Midwest Mystery Conference, a one-day conference dedicated to crime fiction with mystery author Lori Raider Day.
[00:01:55.440 --> 00:02:04.920] She is also the author of two books, Your Book, Your Brand, The Step-by-Step Guide to Launching Your Book and Boosting Your Sales, and The Personal Brand Workbook.
[00:02:04.920 --> 00:02:08.680] She also serves on the advisory board of Propel PR.
[00:02:08.680 --> 00:02:20.600] Dana can previously be found on the following episodes of Being Boss, episodes number 250, 262, 323, and 333.
[00:02:21.240 --> 00:02:25.560] All right, Dana, welcome back to the conversation we've been trying to have this whole time.
[00:02:25.560 --> 00:02:26.760] We got here.
[00:02:26.760 --> 00:02:29.880] It took a few episodes, but we got here.
[00:02:30.840 --> 00:02:32.280] We did get here.
[00:02:32.280 --> 00:02:41.240] I asked Dana months ago to come have a conversation with me about company culture.
[00:02:41.240 --> 00:02:50.360] And the line of questioning or it's the lines of questioning that you can hear in episodes 323 and then 333.
[00:02:50.680 --> 00:02:53.960] And now we're back in 250, what is this?
[00:02:53.960 --> 00:02:56.680] Two or wherever this ends up landing.
[00:02:56.680 --> 00:02:59.240] And like this was where we were going.
[00:02:59.240 --> 00:03:01.720] It just took us all of those to get here.
[00:03:01.720 --> 00:03:08.280] It's because hiring and culture and all of these things, it's a bigger thing, right?
[00:03:08.600 --> 00:03:11.320] And not all of us are very holistic in the way we practice.
[00:03:11.320 --> 00:03:16.280] So I'm not going to just give, here are my 10 steps to great company culture, right?
[00:03:16.520 --> 00:03:24.200] We need to first talk about the hiring process and then we have to talk about the onboarding and the training and all of those things.
[00:03:24.200 --> 00:03:29.400] So yes, it does take a little bit of time before you can even get to the company culture discussion.
[00:03:29.400 --> 00:03:29.720] Yeah.
[00:03:29.720 --> 00:03:33.560] And neither of those conversations are short and quick either, right?
[00:03:33.560 --> 00:03:43.640] There's a lot of things that go into hiring, like finding the right person, making sure they're the right person, and then onboarding them onto the company.
[00:03:43.640 --> 00:03:50.880] Like, I'm glad this took us three episodes to do it because I feel like we did these three topics, or we did the previous two.
[00:03:51.040 --> 00:03:53.680] We're about to do the third one, justice.
[00:03:53.920 --> 00:03:56.960] Because it is such a big part.
[00:03:56.960 --> 00:04:02.800] It's such a big process, yes, but it's also such a big part of doing business.
[00:04:02.800 --> 00:04:16.160] I think you and I are both in a place in our respective companies where a large part of our time is spent finding the right employees, hiring the right employees, onboarding.
[00:04:16.160 --> 00:04:25.200] And the onboarding process really is at least truly a six-ish month process.
[00:04:25.200 --> 00:04:27.280] It's kind of our job.
[00:04:27.600 --> 00:04:31.440] And also leading and coaching and mentoring.
[00:04:31.440 --> 00:04:37.200] So even when you're laughing, because you know, it's the work is never done.
[00:04:37.520 --> 00:04:47.360] I think that once they're onboarded, then it's like even steeping them deeper into their company culture, making sure that their instincts are right.
[00:04:47.360 --> 00:05:00.880] And as they get different challenges or different things are presented to them, that they know how we as a company would handle it versus just them and their instincts.
[00:05:01.200 --> 00:05:02.800] Yeah, for sure.
[00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:05.760] So we're going to be talking about all of those things today, plus some.
[00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:07.360] Talking about company culture.
[00:05:07.360 --> 00:05:11.680] If you haven't listened to those previous two episodes, I highly recommend you go check those out first.
[00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:15.600] They really are the context that leads us to this conversation here and now.
[00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:21.200] So, that was episodes two, 220, excuse me, 323 and then 333.
[00:05:21.520 --> 00:05:24.640] And now we're here to talk about sort of this last piece.
[00:05:24.640 --> 00:05:36.440] So, you have people in, you have people doing their job, but I love what you just said about this idea of helping people make decisions based on how the company would make decisions.
[00:05:36.600 --> 00:05:40.600] I feel like that's a really great sort of point to this company culture.
[00:05:40.600 --> 00:05:46.520] But to kick us off, how do you define company culture and why do you think it's important?
[00:05:47.000 --> 00:06:01.640] I think the definition that I go to, and I think this one is helpful because there might be people listening who are still solopreneurs or maybe always want to be solopreneurs, but even if you're a solopreneur, you still have a company culture.
[00:06:01.640 --> 00:06:06.200] And your services and your offerings, that's what you do.
[00:06:06.520 --> 00:06:09.800] The company culture aligns in how you do it.
[00:06:09.800 --> 00:06:19.480] This is how you're showing up to do the work, how you're showing up for your clients, how you're showing up in your retail store, how you're showing up on social media.
[00:06:20.200 --> 00:06:21.400] It's the how.
[00:06:21.720 --> 00:06:34.200] There's lots of crystal shop owners, there's lots of publicists, but the difference between Almanac and the others, or K-Publicity and the others, is that our culture is different.
[00:06:34.200 --> 00:06:36.040] Our culture is what makes us unique.
[00:06:36.040 --> 00:06:41.720] When you walk into your store, it feels different than some of the other crystal stores.
[00:06:41.720 --> 00:06:55.000] When people walk into our virtual, you know, our virtual services, when they have their first onboarding call, when they get our proposals, when they talk to our team members, it's a different experience than speaking to other publicists.
[00:06:55.000 --> 00:07:14.800] And so, the culture piece is baked in, but in the context of employees, it's making sure that they understand that culture and understand the how we do it so that they can continue to kind of like reinforce this with whoever they come in contact with.
[00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:17.920] So, Emily, you're not at the shop every day.
[00:07:14.520 --> 00:07:20.160] I'm not talking to our clients.
[00:07:20.480 --> 00:07:25.200] I don't talk to that many of our clients anymore, which is an interesting, interesting shift.
[00:07:25.200 --> 00:07:39.360] But I'm really confident that whoever walks into your store and whatever team member the client talks to or the media professional talks to, we're all going to give them the same, Tara McMahon calls it the special sauce, like the how we do it.
[00:07:39.360 --> 00:07:45.920] They're going to all give them the same treatment regardless of who's working the front or regardless of who answers the phone.
[00:07:46.880 --> 00:07:47.680] Beautiful.
[00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:48.240] I love that.
[00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:55.440] That's a really great sort of summation of what I think is, it's not a definition that's really easy to pin down.
[00:07:55.440 --> 00:08:00.400] Like, I don't think anyone can ever be like, company culture is, here are eight words that define the thing, right?
[00:08:00.400 --> 00:08:01.360] There's lots of pieces.
[00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:03.600] It sort of lives and breathes and moves and all of these things.
[00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:06.400] And it really encompasses so much of what you do.
[00:08:06.720 --> 00:08:21.360] And you mentioned the like how it is that you do things, but I think that comes from a why it is that you do things, which we talked about in the last episode, last part of this, where we talked about values, right?
[00:08:21.360 --> 00:08:22.720] The values are the why.
[00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:30.480] That's how you like get down into, like, if you value, you know, at Almanac, we value collaboration.
[00:08:30.480 --> 00:08:32.480] So, or that's one of our company values.
[00:08:32.480 --> 00:08:37.200] So, that really plays into the how we do a lot of things.
[00:08:37.520 --> 00:08:38.640] So, I think it's values.
[00:08:38.640 --> 00:08:40.400] I also think it's very much so goals.
[00:08:40.400 --> 00:08:47.360] It's an understanding of the goals, depending on where you're working towards, will sort of dictate how it is that you move toward that thing as well.
[00:08:47.360 --> 00:08:52.560] And then also the attitudes that you have as you're doing things.
[00:08:52.560 --> 00:08:52.960] You're right.
[00:08:52.960 --> 00:09:20.840] I think, or I hope, and I know in a lot of ways, that whenever someone walks into the store, the experience they're getting from one employee is going to be the exact or a very similar attitude as they're going to get from, you know, whether it's me or one of my employees, whether it's a key holder or a sales associate or just the person working in the stock room and the downstairs who's upstairs for a second and also greeting someone who comes in.
[00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:25.560] There's these pieces of the company culture that are defined.
[00:09:25.560 --> 00:09:37.640] And I think the values and goals help define them that really inform the how, the practices and processes that help you share that company culture within the company.
[00:09:37.640 --> 00:09:43.880] So to each other within the team, but also outside of the company with your customers and clients.
[00:09:43.880 --> 00:09:44.200] Yeah.
[00:09:44.200 --> 00:09:48.920] And I was going to say, like the values conversation really is the heart of all of this, right?
[00:09:49.400 --> 00:09:56.360] Your values, which if you don't know them yet, beingboss.club/slash values.
[00:09:56.360 --> 00:09:58.920] I think there's some great sources there.
[00:09:59.560 --> 00:10:09.320] But I think that getting really clear, and these aren't your personal values, although if you're the business owner, your personal values often get infused into the company ones.
[00:10:09.320 --> 00:10:15.000] However, the company values, that's the lens where we're all operating from.
[00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:19.640] So I might have, we have people on our team who are more creative minds.
[00:10:19.640 --> 00:10:32.440] We have people on our team who are more detail-oriented, analytical thinkers, but we're all looking through the lens of we have three C's: community, creativity, and consistency.
[00:10:32.760 --> 00:10:37.640] And I think the consistency piece is really important for, again, company culture.
[00:10:37.640 --> 00:10:40.120] How you do one thing is how you do everything.
[00:10:40.440 --> 00:10:55.440] And so I think that this translates from the values that we use to serve our clients, as well as using our values to how we support each other, how we interact with each other as team members, how we function as an organization.
[00:10:55.760 --> 00:10:59.840] And we all look through those lens of those three values.
[00:10:59.840 --> 00:11:02.480] So I think that it's really helpful.
[00:11:02.480 --> 00:11:10.480] The reason that that creates the culture is that we are all gathering around a similar cause.
[00:11:10.480 --> 00:11:17.520] So that's like the why, like why we're doing this, as well as we all are buying into these three values.
[00:11:17.520 --> 00:11:20.880] And so we are all speaking the same language.
[00:11:20.880 --> 00:11:23.680] We're all understanding how we operate.
[00:11:23.680 --> 00:11:32.480] And when there are tensions between employees, between me and my team members, between employees and clients, we can keep coming back to that.
[00:11:32.480 --> 00:11:37.680] Where if something gets tense, I mean, I have a big team now, and I know Emily, you do too.
[00:11:37.680 --> 00:11:40.240] So like there's personalities, right?
[00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:44.560] Like we all have different quirks and different things.
[00:11:44.560 --> 00:11:49.760] But when things get tense, the way it tension is okay.
[00:11:49.760 --> 00:11:52.160] I think it brings about better ideas.
[00:11:52.560 --> 00:12:04.000] But I think that the way it goes, it prevents the tension from becoming toxic is that we know we're all coming from this shared, these shared ideals, these shared values, and the shared why.
[00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:08.640] And that's what the comp, that's why company culture is so, so important.
[00:12:08.640 --> 00:12:10.320] It's going to keep employees there longer.
[00:12:10.320 --> 00:12:15.760] It's going to act as a filter for employees that are good fits or not.
[00:12:15.760 --> 00:12:19.760] Because people come to us and they're like very, man, I work in publishing.
[00:12:19.760 --> 00:12:24.000] So if you're money driven, you made a big mistake, like going into this industry.
[00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:31.240] So I think that you know, it attracts people who care about the arts, who care about storytelling, fully remote.
[00:12:29.600 --> 00:12:36.120] So it attracts people who are independent contributors and can manage their time.
[00:12:36.440 --> 00:12:42.600] And if you don't value community, like you're going to kind of self-opt out.
[00:12:42.600 --> 00:12:44.600] That's not the, you know, self-select.
[00:12:44.760 --> 00:12:45.000] Yep.
[00:12:45.080 --> 00:12:46.040] There you go.
[00:12:46.520 --> 00:12:56.440] And so I think that if you infuse this idea of culture into everything, there's these tangential things that happen that just make your work easier.
[00:12:56.440 --> 00:12:56.920] Yeah.
[00:12:57.240 --> 00:12:57.880] Yes.
[00:12:57.880 --> 00:12:59.160] I agree with all of that.
[00:12:59.160 --> 00:13:02.440] And I have a couple of things to sort of come off of that.
[00:13:02.440 --> 00:13:05.000] You mentioned that one of your values is consistency.
[00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:08.200] And it's actually something that I thought of before you brought that up.
[00:13:08.200 --> 00:13:17.720] Because even though it's one of your values, I think for any company, company culture brings consistency to what it is that you're doing.
[00:13:17.720 --> 00:13:22.840] And one of the old Emilyisms is that consistency breeds legitimacy.
[00:13:23.160 --> 00:13:31.240] It literally allows or it builds trust between you and your employees and/or you and your customers.
[00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:54.280] And so by having everyone operating under, you know, this lens of the company values, whenever a client talks to you versus talking to your project manager or your assistant or your account rep or whatever, or whether they're visiting you now or next month or a year from now, that consistency is in how it is that you are presenting yourself.
[00:13:54.280 --> 00:14:00.120] And I mean, you as a business in whatever capacity that looks like is what will keep them coming back.
[00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:04.120] It's what will help you with your word-of-mouth marketing and all of those things.
[00:14:04.120 --> 00:14:15.680] You simply by showing up the same every single time, no matter what that, what that entails, builds trust because consistency is what lends to that.
[00:14:15.680 --> 00:14:16.720] So, I want to say that.
[00:14:14.920 --> 00:14:20.000] And then I also want to talk about this through the lens of the values.
[00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:23.280] I can't remember if I said this in the last episode or not.
[00:14:23.520 --> 00:14:26.720] I say this sometimes and calls and like all the things.
[00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:27.200] Who knows?
[00:14:27.200 --> 00:14:29.840] So, apologies if I'm repeating myself.
[00:14:30.160 --> 00:14:43.600] But one of the things that I tell my team, and I think we're going to get into this a little more in a minute, is as I'm onboarding people on like their first day of work, we're going through the employee handbook together, we're doing, you know, talking about all of these things.
[00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:51.360] And I always stop and hit on values in particular because that really is the lens through which everything should and could be done.
[00:14:51.360 --> 00:15:04.320] And I always tell them when it comes to decision-making, if I can ever see that you made a decision through the lens of your values, I won't care or through the lens of our values.
[00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:07.760] Let me go back and edit that one.
[00:15:08.400 --> 00:15:26.320] If I can see that you thought about what our values are and you made that decision based on the values, if it's something that didn't previously have processes in place, whatever it may be, then I know that you made that as a company and not just you with whatever interest you have in mind.
[00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:47.360] And that's really powerful, I think, to give your employees that sort of context through which they can build some autonomy into the job that they do and how you've given them the lens through which they are then, you know, empowered to make whatever decisions they can and will have to make.
[00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:51.200] Well, it goes back to your business changes, right?
[00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:54.960] Like, no day in a retail store is exactly the same for us.
[00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:57.040] Every client is a little different.
[00:15:57.360 --> 00:16:01.560] And if your team members are constantly asking you questions, like, what should I do about this?
[00:16:01.560 --> 00:16:02.120] What should I do about that?
[00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:03.640] Like, that's not an efficient way.
[00:16:03.640 --> 00:16:09.720] You need to create some systematic decision makings for them.
[00:16:09.720 --> 00:16:11.800] And you can't predict anything.
[00:16:11.800 --> 00:16:15.240] You can't make a decision tree for every single scenario.
[00:16:15.240 --> 00:16:31.800] And so when it comes down to it, like looking at our why, looking at the values, and putting it through that lens, because it's interesting you talk about consistency and like clients coming back, because we actually just had a call with a client that we haven't worked with in five years.
[00:16:32.120 --> 00:16:36.200] And she asked, like, she asked, like, what are you doing differently?
[00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:37.800] Like, what would the campaign look like?
[00:16:37.800 --> 00:16:39.000] It's been a minute.
[00:16:39.320 --> 00:16:45.160] And when I look at her campaign, I'm like, the modalities are different.
[00:16:45.160 --> 00:16:49.880] Like, not many blogs now, lots more TikTok now, like those.
[00:16:49.880 --> 00:16:51.960] But the premise is all the same.
[00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:53.400] Where are your readers?
[00:16:53.720 --> 00:16:59.080] Like, it's all about reaching readers and connecting with readers.
[00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:09.960] And so if you're able to distill what you do into something very simple and put that to your team members, then they can make better decisions.
[00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:14.760] So when a client is asking about, should I do this ad campaign?
[00:17:14.760 --> 00:17:16.120] Should I pay to play with this?
[00:17:16.120 --> 00:17:17.640] Should I do this event?
[00:17:17.960 --> 00:17:20.520] They can say, okay, is this going to reach the target audience?
[00:17:20.520 --> 00:17:22.520] Is this going to reach readers?
[00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:25.400] And make a judgment call.
[00:17:25.400 --> 00:17:29.560] And maybe they'll still present it to me, but I'll ask them, okay, well, what do you think?
[00:17:30.200 --> 00:17:32.680] And hopefully, they get to the right decision.
[00:17:32.680 --> 00:17:38.440] Because, again, it's, I think, we talked about this, gosh, it must have been a few years ago now.
[00:17:38.440 --> 00:17:41.240] Can you teach creativity?
[00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:45.360] Like, can you teach creativity and can you outsource your brain?
[00:17:44.840 --> 00:17:50.000] Basically, like, can you teach someone to think like you?
[00:17:50.800 --> 00:18:01.120] I don't want people thinking exactly like me because I don't need a clone, I need, but I need again, that someone who is going to make decisions in this and evaluate things in the way I would.
[00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:04.080] And I think this is the key to it, right?
[00:18:04.080 --> 00:18:13.280] Like, if you want people to make these high-level decisions, because at the time I was thinking, I could never outsource fielding the new clients.
[00:18:13.280 --> 00:18:14.640] Like, I can't outsource that.
[00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:18.800] Like, and then I realized, like, oh, wait, I definitely can't.
[00:18:18.800 --> 00:18:30.720] I have a method to how I evaluate if they're a good fit, making checklists, like having people on calls and me telling them, okay, here's what they said, and here's what I heard.
[00:18:31.040 --> 00:18:36.800] And then them doing the calls, and then them telling me this is what they said, and this is what I heard.
[00:18:36.800 --> 00:18:41.760] And so, you can train people to do business in the way that you do.
[00:18:41.760 --> 00:18:51.200] And if you have, if you're very clear on your values and very clear on your why, that's going to make it all the more, all the more easier.
[00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:53.760] Yeah, not to mention good processes.
[00:18:53.760 --> 00:18:55.120] Good processes.
[00:18:55.120 --> 00:18:58.800] You know, we love indeed, indeed.
[00:19:01.040 --> 00:19:04.080] Being boss is about more than taking care of business.
[00:19:04.080 --> 00:19:06.320] It's also about taking care of yourself.
[00:19:06.320 --> 00:19:10.320] And not just so you can be great at work, but so you can enjoy your life.
[00:19:10.320 --> 00:19:20.720] And when it comes to resting and sleeping, make the same investment in the tools that help you do it well as you do for those that help you with your work, which is where Cozy Earth comes in.
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[00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:04.360] Okay, perfect.
[00:20:04.360 --> 00:20:05.880] Then let's dive into this a little more.
[00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:08.600] I feel like we just gave it like a really good 30,000-foot view.
[00:20:08.600 --> 00:20:10.200] Like, here's kind of what it is.
[00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:11.320] Here's why it matters.
[00:20:11.320 --> 00:20:12.360] Here's how it helps.
[00:20:12.360 --> 00:20:16.600] But what does it actually look like to build a company culture?
[00:20:16.600 --> 00:20:18.600] Because I think this is like a make it or break it kind of.
[00:20:18.600 --> 00:20:22.360] Like you're either doing it or you are very much so not doing it.
[00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:30.600] And it's very obvious, I think, for anyone within the organization and oftentimes even outside of an organization, whether or not you're doing it.
[00:20:30.840 --> 00:20:34.040] Like it's, if it's toxic, everybody knows.
[00:20:34.040 --> 00:20:37.160] If it's not working, everybody knows and no one feels good about it.
[00:20:37.160 --> 00:20:41.400] But when it is, it can really be a magical thing that makes some great things happen.
[00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:47.800] So when it comes to company culture, how do you nurture it in your team?
[00:20:47.800 --> 00:20:49.080] What does it look like?
[00:20:49.080 --> 00:20:50.600] Sort of what does it entail?
[00:20:50.600 --> 00:20:52.520] And how are you infusing it?
[00:20:52.520 --> 00:21:01.240] Maybe from even like the very beginning, maybe even like at the hiring phase, all the way through to just any old Tuesday.
[00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:07.400] Well, definitely at the hiring phase, I try to get a sense if they are community-minded, if they're consistent.
[00:21:07.400 --> 00:21:20.160] Like, you know, when you interview people, it's a performance, and some people are good performers, and you try to ask questions that get to the root of some of the things and get them to show their true colors.
[00:21:20.320 --> 00:21:29.040] So, if what I'm hearing in an interview does not align with what I saw in the cover letter, with what I saw in their resume, with some of their answers that they got, those sorts of things.
[00:21:29.040 --> 00:21:32.000] So, I can see consistency.
[00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:40.400] I can look at their, I'll ask them questions about things that they're how are they active in their community and just get a sense of their community-mindedness.
[00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:47.280] And then I always ask questions that try to get a hint of their creativity: like, do you have any passions outside of work?
[00:21:47.280 --> 00:21:51.840] Do you tell me about something you did, created that we're really proud of?
[00:21:51.840 --> 00:21:55.600] Those sorts of things, just to get a sense if they are creative thinkers.
[00:21:55.600 --> 00:21:58.480] And so, the hiring process is definitely the first one.
[00:21:58.480 --> 00:22:01.520] Um, the oh, I also have a note here that I want to add.
[00:22:01.520 --> 00:22:18.880] One of the things that I also find whenever you go along this line of values-oriented questioning in the hiring process is that those who resonate with it are more likely to excitedly follow up 100% and not just like a general, like, oh, you know, it was nice meeting you last week, how'd it go?
[00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:23.760] But, like, someone who's going to reply back and be like, That was the best interview I've ever had, right?
[00:22:23.760 --> 00:22:27.120] I would love to know if I can work with you or not, whatever it may be.
[00:22:27.120 --> 00:22:32.720] That it does some filtering on its own just by asking those kinds of questions.
[00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:35.360] Yeah, and you sell the candidate in many ways, right?
[00:22:35.360 --> 00:22:44.000] Like, you're, I think we talked about this in the context of brand, but you want to be a magnet, you want to attract the right people and repel the wrong people.
[00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:52.720] And so, I think that asking these types of interview questions that they're not expecting that dive a little deeper, which is also again part of our culture.
[00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:54.560] Like, I hate small talk.
[00:22:54.560 --> 00:22:56.800] That's my personal, personal thing.
[00:22:56.800 --> 00:22:57.600] I hate small talk.
[00:22:57.600 --> 00:22:59.120] Let's go deep right away.
[00:22:59.120 --> 00:23:06.360] And so, if you, if that turns you off, if you want to talk about weather and nonsense, I'm like, I don't think you're gonna like our check-in.
[00:23:06.440 --> 00:23:10.760] We have a weekly, we have two weekly team meetings, but their kickoff one on Monday.
[00:23:10.760 --> 00:23:19.880] We always have a check-in question, and these aren't like occasionally we'll get a favorite TV show or something like that, but usually it's like what's sparking your creativity?
[00:23:19.880 --> 00:23:24.760] What if you were on a desert island and can only read one genre, what would it be?
[00:23:24.760 --> 00:23:28.120] And like, it causes people to think very differently.
[00:23:28.120 --> 00:23:31.400] And I think, again, that's it, it's infused, it's infused in our culture.
[00:23:31.400 --> 00:23:36.760] And if you're thrown off by these non or these atypical questions, then yep, not the right fit.
[00:23:36.920 --> 00:23:39.560] Yeah, it's in our handbook, it's our onboarding process.
[00:23:39.560 --> 00:23:42.200] So, our onboarding process, again, consistency.
[00:23:42.200 --> 00:23:46.760] Like, we have a very buttoned up onboarding process.
[00:23:46.760 --> 00:23:48.520] We have a handbook.
[00:23:48.520 --> 00:24:00.200] I'm saying this from this position, but I there's no shame because I did not have this all in place three years ago, but we hired a lot of people, and so I had to get that in place real quick.
[00:24:00.200 --> 00:24:05.560] And so, even that piece of infusing some of the culture in the way I word my handbook.
[00:24:05.560 --> 00:24:13.880] So, you might do a template from, I don't know, Google or whatever about like an employee handbook, but you need to put your stuff in it.
[00:24:13.880 --> 00:24:17.240] Like, it needs to be in your voice, your company's voice.
[00:24:17.240 --> 00:24:23.000] What you include in the handbook has a lot to do with what you reflect is important.
[00:24:23.320 --> 00:24:30.760] So, even things like part of our culture is a lot about self-reliance and autonomy.
[00:24:30.760 --> 00:24:34.840] And so, in the employee, we have non-prescribed vacation days.
[00:24:34.840 --> 00:24:40.680] And in the handbook, we say, We assume that you are going to take vacation.
[00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:43.880] It is healthy for you to take time away from work.
[00:24:43.880 --> 00:24:48.480] Here is the process for notifying when you're going to be out of the office.
[00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:59.120] So, even that framing of like, we expect this to happen, we appreciate work-life balance, and this is how you do it.
[00:24:59.120 --> 00:25:01.680] So, like, that's infused in the handbook.
[00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:12.240] And it's also when I try to make, when I think about making decisions, so like right now, one of the decisions I'm having to make is how to handle some of the health insurance stuff.
[00:25:12.560 --> 00:25:18.000] We have an employee on Medicare, I have to do her things differently than the health insurance.
[00:25:18.320 --> 00:25:24.320] Some people are on their husband's or wives or parents' health insurance, so I'm not paying for it.
[00:25:24.320 --> 00:25:25.520] Does that matter?
[00:25:25.520 --> 00:25:31.760] So, I'm constantly looking through this lens of our, what does, what are the benefits we offer?
[00:25:32.080 --> 00:25:33.840] What are the structures we have in place?
[00:25:33.840 --> 00:25:36.560] And what does that say about our company culture?
[00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:41.680] Because part of it is like equity, not equality, honestly.
[00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:55.600] And so, if giving everyone $500 for their health insurance isn't, it's equal, but it's not equitable because if the 64-year-old needs more than the 25-year-old, it doesn't matter.
[00:25:55.600 --> 00:26:08.800] So, it's even just infusing in how you're like your policies, your procedures, your benefits, again, putting it through the lens of like your values, putting it through the lens of like, what are you conveying by doing it this way?
[00:26:09.120 --> 00:26:14.800] And I think that the fact it drives my accountant crazy sometimes because he's like, just give everyone a flat.
[00:26:14.800 --> 00:26:16.080] Like, what are you doing?
[00:26:16.080 --> 00:26:18.560] But I'm like, but that's not what we do.
[00:26:18.560 --> 00:26:19.760] Like, we're tailored.
[00:26:19.760 --> 00:26:20.960] We're not cookie cutter.
[00:26:20.960 --> 00:26:24.560] Like, our clients don't have cookie cutter campaigns.
[00:26:24.560 --> 00:26:26.160] They're all tailored.
[00:26:26.440 --> 00:26:31.880] Our, we, again, this idea of equity versus equality is really important to me.
[00:26:31.880 --> 00:26:34.280] And so, we need to infuse that into everything.
[00:26:29.920 --> 00:26:36.760] And what happens is people see that.
[00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:45.640] Oh, and the other thing with our handbook that I was very conscious about is about we don't have maternity leave, but we have caregiver leave.
[00:26:45.640 --> 00:26:58.840] So, whatever care, if you're leaving to take care of a sick parent, a sick, an injured spouse, a child, if you really want to make an argument for your dog, I can maybe get on board with it.
[00:26:58.840 --> 00:27:05.480] But, like, the but this idea too of like, you know, we're not a one-size-fits-all.
[00:27:05.480 --> 00:27:09.720] Like, it's not, I'm not going to penalize people who don't have kids.
[00:27:10.040 --> 00:27:16.280] And I'm not going to, and I want to make sure that if people, I mean, we're reaching this age, right?
[00:27:16.280 --> 00:27:18.440] Like, aging parents is a thing.
[00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:26.280] And if they need that time, there's no difference to me from caring for a newborn and caring for an elderly parent for a time.
[00:27:26.280 --> 00:27:31.880] So, even just, I really look at like the benefits, packages, the structure.
[00:27:31.880 --> 00:27:34.680] I think all of that is infused into the company culture.
[00:27:34.680 --> 00:27:37.080] And with that, too, this idea of community.
[00:27:37.080 --> 00:27:46.360] So, when people go on vacation or when people have to take a leave, we all know that we need to step up.
[00:27:46.680 --> 00:27:56.360] And therefore, the person who's taking vacation is very mindful that when they leave, other people are stepping up and that they would do it for vice versa.
[00:27:56.680 --> 00:27:59.080] The roles would be reversed at some point.
[00:27:59.080 --> 00:28:04.840] So, I think that also creates a sense of that also bakes in this idea of community.
[00:28:04.840 --> 00:28:18.000] So, like, when you leave, you're leaning on someone to cover your stuff so that when someone else leaves, you don't feel resentful, you actually feel grateful that you can return the favor.
[00:28:18.320 --> 00:28:36.240] Yeah, this is the thing that I want to highlight here: is that all of this, most of what you just mentioned, is the employee handbook, which is the thing that they are being like that is the document that they read their first moments on payroll, right?
[00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:38.960] Like, this is how you start the conversation.
[00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:40.960] It's having all of these things in one place.
[00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:43.120] And I will say, I've been very open about this too.
[00:28:43.120 --> 00:28:48.240] I also did not have one of these until it was time for me to really grow the team.
[00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:49.360] And I did.
[00:28:49.360 --> 00:28:58.160] And similarly, when it comes to those values, this is something that I say whenever I'm onboarding people, but it is something that has to be infused throughout.
[00:28:58.800 --> 00:29:02.640] It's all based on these values.
[00:29:02.640 --> 00:29:23.760] And if you cannot draw that line of consistency through what it is that you say and what it is that you do, then you have an opportunity to more holistically approach your company culture in a way that it is fully aligned with your why and how being your values.
[00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:33.120] And it really does start in this case with the first thing they do when they show up to work for you.
[00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:44.720] And I would encourage even those of you who have not hired people yet or have just hired contractors or VAs to still have an employee handbook.
[00:29:44.720 --> 00:29:46.240] It might not be as detailed.
[00:29:46.240 --> 00:29:53.760] It might feel a little silly, but as entrepreneurs, we are awful bosses to ourselves, right?
[00:29:53.760 --> 00:30:03.560] Like if you get paid, if an employee would get paid bi-weekly, then you sure as hell better be paying yourself bi-weekly, right?
[00:29:59.120 --> 00:30:08.680] Like, if you expect people to take vacation, then you yourself should be taking vacation.
[00:30:08.680 --> 00:30:15.320] If you expect your employees to show up on time and to deliver stuff on time, you better do the same.
[00:30:15.320 --> 00:30:21.400] And I think that it's like I said, it seems silly, but like we're not good employees to ourselves.
[00:30:21.400 --> 00:30:27.880] Like, we tend to overwork or underwork sometimes, right?
[00:30:27.880 --> 00:30:35.320] Like, if we're feeling overwhelmed, we might hide or ghost or, you know, we've not us, Emily, but we've seen this happen.
[00:30:35.960 --> 00:30:41.240] And, you know, we also will like forego vacations or like, oh, cash is tight this month.
[00:30:41.240 --> 00:30:42.520] I'm not going to pay myself.
[00:30:42.520 --> 00:30:44.760] And like, those are all horrible habits.
[00:30:44.760 --> 00:30:52.760] So even making an employee handbook for yourself so that you can be a better employee for your own company.
[00:30:52.760 --> 00:30:58.920] And same thing, like looking at through the lens of your values, looking at it through the lens of the culture.
[00:30:58.920 --> 00:31:02.920] And the bonus is that when you do hire an employee, you'll have it ready.
[00:31:03.560 --> 00:31:04.040] Yeah.
[00:31:04.600 --> 00:31:07.800] And a couple, all of that is very true.
[00:31:07.800 --> 00:31:21.000] I also think by you being your best employee in all of those ways, you, especially once you start hiring folks, it becomes more and more important for you to follow your own rules.
[00:31:21.640 --> 00:31:22.280] Right.
[00:31:22.280 --> 00:31:28.360] Because you're like, it doesn't do any good if we have unprescribed vacation time.
[00:31:28.360 --> 00:31:30.600] If I never take a vacation.
[00:31:30.600 --> 00:31:31.160] Yeah.
[00:31:31.160 --> 00:31:31.560] Right.
[00:31:31.560 --> 00:31:37.480] Because then they're going to be like, oh, well, Dana never, she works all the time and never takes vacation and doesn't have any boundaries.
[00:31:37.480 --> 00:31:39.400] So how am I supposed to do that?
[00:31:39.400 --> 00:31:43.080] You kind of set the stage for the rest of the team.
[00:31:43.400 --> 00:31:44.040] For sure.
[00:31:44.040 --> 00:31:52.480] And I even think, you know, the very smallest part of this is our dress code at the shop because I have a bunch of college kids working.
[00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:53.680] I put a dress code in place.
[00:31:53.680 --> 00:31:58.880] It has since been loosened because they didn't all dress like nine-year-olds, which was afraid.
[00:31:58.880 --> 00:32:01.680] You just go into it not knowing what to expect.
[00:32:02.080 --> 00:32:10.480] But I dressed like my expectation of a nine-year-old or whatever until we decided to loosen it up.
[00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:14.400] And I remember one day David was leaving for work in something inappropriate.
[00:32:14.400 --> 00:32:19.760] Obviously, not like on a grand scale, inappropriate by any means, but like his shirt was the wrong color.
[00:32:19.760 --> 00:32:22.000] And I was like, but sir.
[00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:22.800] And he's like, what?
[00:32:22.800 --> 00:32:23.440] I'm the boss.
[00:32:23.440 --> 00:32:30.480] I'm like, exactly, which is exactly why you should be following the instructions to the T.
[00:32:30.800 --> 00:32:35.680] You are the, you are the mold for the consistency, right?
[00:32:35.680 --> 00:32:41.920] In all the ways, whether you like it or not, this is like, this is what being a leader is, whether you like it or not.
[00:32:42.160 --> 00:32:43.680] You're the model, right?
[00:32:43.680 --> 00:32:52.960] Like, it's not, I feel like there was a lot of, this might have been like in the early, like late 90s, early 2000s, where it was like, yeah, the boss did whatever they want and everyone else just had to fall in line.
[00:32:52.960 --> 00:32:54.640] Like, that's not the case anymore.
[00:32:54.640 --> 00:32:58.880] Like, we are all leaders and also employees.
[00:32:58.880 --> 00:33:05.760] I also love that David was just wearing the wrong color because when you said inappropriate, I'm like, was he wearing a crop top and booty shorts?
[00:33:05.760 --> 00:33:07.200] Or what was, what was he going?
[00:33:07.280 --> 00:33:08.000] What was going on?
[00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:18.320] I will say, I actually put some of the dress code things in place because he had this really awful habit of wearing this one pair of jeans that totally had a hole in the butt.
[00:33:18.320 --> 00:33:22.560] Like his, his like pocket had like, you know, come apart.
[00:33:22.560 --> 00:33:31.400] And so like, I was like, okay, I'm going to have to put literally no holes above your knees for David so that he will stop thinking that those jeans are appropriate.
[00:33:31.400 --> 00:33:40.520] Well, and that brings up a good point that you might not understand what you need to infuse into your company culture until it's you're faced with it.
[00:33:40.520 --> 00:33:41.080] For sure.
[00:33:41.080 --> 00:33:41.320] Right.
[00:33:41.320 --> 00:33:45.960] So like as you're hiring people, they might, they'll, I always laugh.
[00:33:45.960 --> 00:33:51.480] It's like when you, when we were baby proofing the house for the kiddo, I'm like, he showed us where to baby proof, right?
[00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:54.600] Like whatever he got into, that's what we needed to baby proof.
[00:33:54.600 --> 00:34:08.040] And it's the same with employees, not that they're babies, but like that they, they will, you'll start to see things and you'll say, like, oh, we don't have a procedure in place for giving peer, like, how do we give peer feedback?
[00:34:08.360 --> 00:34:13.640] Or how do we, who reports to who, or who gives feedback to whom and when?
[00:34:13.960 --> 00:34:15.640] And you start to see those things happen.
[00:34:15.640 --> 00:34:18.040] And then you're like, okay, now we need to have a system in place.
[00:34:18.040 --> 00:34:20.680] Now we need to have a process in place.
[00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:26.360] And you, as the boss, need to like model all of that, right?
[00:34:26.360 --> 00:34:35.000] So like if your policy, our policy is, is that if you need feedback or have questions on something, you first go, you first try to find it yourself.
[00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:36.440] That's the first.
[00:34:36.760 --> 00:34:39.560] And then second is you go to the person who assigned you the task.
[00:34:39.560 --> 00:34:42.200] So if I get, and this, so the same goes for me, right?
[00:34:42.200 --> 00:34:51.800] Like, so if I get assigned a task and I don't understand, my first instinct is just G-chat the person and I'm like, oh, no, no, no.
[00:34:51.800 --> 00:34:53.240] I need to do some research.
[00:34:53.240 --> 00:34:55.240] I need to see if I missed something.
[00:34:55.240 --> 00:35:02.920] And so I have to follow my own rules and go and like, and then when I do go to the person, say, I looked here and here and I can't find it.
[00:35:02.920 --> 00:35:07.560] Can you tell me where it is or if it's missing or et cetera?
[00:35:07.560 --> 00:35:17.440] So I think there's a little bit of you'll set it up, but it's an ongoing process and it's an ongoing process and there's a lot of evolution.
[00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:25.760] So when new team members come, when offerings change, when the industry changes, you might be faced with different things.
[00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:32.400] I don't think culture changes that much, but at the same time, we saw a big upheaval in how we work, right?
[00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:37.680] Like we saw a huge amount of change in our perception around work.
[00:35:37.680 --> 00:35:41.600] I think you and me, Emily, have always been doing business.
[00:35:41.600 --> 00:35:45.120] I think the quote is on our own, live life on your own terms.
[00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:47.280] We've always been doing that.
[00:35:47.600 --> 00:35:54.640] But that's, but when we're hiring people who haven't always been doing that, we have to kind of retrain and reframe.
[00:35:54.640 --> 00:36:04.000] And so your company culture will evolve as industry standards change, as kind of our society adapts and grows.
[00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:14.560] And so I'd love to say that like we haven't changed much, but I think we always do make tweaks and crank different dials and elaborate in certain places.
[00:36:14.560 --> 00:36:22.560] Yeah, I think there's a core that stays the same, but this other part of it does have to be malleable based on when and where we are.
[00:36:22.960 --> 00:36:28.640] Okay, what does this company culture piece look like on an ongoing basis?
[00:36:29.280 --> 00:36:31.200] On an ongoing basis.
[00:36:31.200 --> 00:36:38.880] So I think that establishing from the just from any part of it or part of you as a boss.
[00:36:38.880 --> 00:36:39.520] Okay.
[00:36:39.840 --> 00:36:48.880] So I think that we are always faced, there's seldom a week in our company, where it's just like head down doing work, right?
[00:36:48.880 --> 00:36:58.080] There's always something that comes up, whether it's a new business opportunity or a new partnership or a crisis or issue.
[00:36:58.080 --> 00:37:08.680] And so, the ongoing piece is speaking with the team and speaking with clients in the language that enforces this culture.
[00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:15.960] So, when people, so for example, we just had one of our team members just got back from a conference.
[00:37:15.960 --> 00:37:20.760] And I asked her in the meeting to share how the conference went.
[00:37:20.760 --> 00:37:29.080] And when she shared that, she was able to like support our current clients, introduce them to people, meet new ones.
[00:37:29.080 --> 00:37:37.320] And when she talked about how she spent her time at the conference, that in and of itself reinforced this idea of community.
[00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:40.840] Like, this is how we as a team members show up at a conference.
[00:37:40.840 --> 00:37:43.640] Like, you're not hanging at the hotel bar.
[00:37:43.640 --> 00:37:46.440] You're not, you know, just going to the parties.
[00:37:46.440 --> 00:37:48.280] Like, you're there to support our authors.
[00:37:48.280 --> 00:37:49.880] She was speaking there.
[00:37:50.200 --> 00:37:54.760] She worked one of our clients who was there into her talk, like all of those things.
[00:37:54.760 --> 00:38:02.600] So, again, I think modeling and bringing people up who highlight our culture piece.
[00:38:02.600 --> 00:38:13.080] So, if someone is going to a conference and how she can reinforce community, if I share, I had a difficult conversation with a client, here's how I handled it.
[00:38:13.080 --> 00:38:22.760] Or we were, or the marketing person had a call with a new media platform or new social media platform, which they feel it's like they're popping up all the time.
[00:38:23.160 --> 00:38:33.560] But like, so when she presents it, she presents it in a way and through the lens of like our values, through the lens of how we do business, all of those things.
[00:38:33.560 --> 00:38:40.360] So, it's modeling from a boss standpoint, it's modeling the language, and then it's highlighting when other people model the language.
[00:38:40.360 --> 00:38:45.000] So, I will highlight, I really enjoyed this creative solution to this problem.
[00:38:46.160 --> 00:38:55.840] I really like how this sense of community was with you throughout the conference and just pinpointing how this reinforces.
[00:38:55.840 --> 00:39:02.960] I also think that some conversations are meant to be had in public and some are meant to be had in private.
[00:39:02.960 --> 00:39:14.560] But whenever you, as a business owner, can address something on the company stage, I guess would be the thing, that will also help reinforce.
[00:39:14.560 --> 00:39:20.240] So an example for us was HarperCollins Publishers went on strike.
[00:39:20.560 --> 00:39:27.440] We have a lot of HarperCollins authors and HarperCollins themselves as a client.
[00:39:27.440 --> 00:39:34.240] And a lot of the team members had their opinions about what we should do, but they really looked to me to make a decision.
[00:39:34.240 --> 00:39:41.680] And I said that we are not, we don't cross virtual pick, we don't cross picket lines, virtual or otherwise.
[00:39:41.680 --> 00:39:44.160] So we will not, we're going to fulfill our contract.
[00:39:44.160 --> 00:39:46.000] We have just like one month left on the contract.
[00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:49.920] We're going to fulfill our contract with HarperCollins, but we're not taking on new contracts.
[00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:54.560] And we're going to keep working with our authors and not leave them in the lurch because that's about the author.
[00:39:54.560 --> 00:40:08.080] And so even just like during these moments, these make or break moments, and you got to put your, they to have them see me put my money where my mouth is because we got lots, lots of inbound from Harper during that time, right?
[00:40:08.080 --> 00:40:10.480] Like they need, they have all their employees on strike.
[00:40:10.480 --> 00:40:11.600] They need help.
[00:40:11.600 --> 00:40:13.360] And if they ever needed PR.
[00:40:13.360 --> 00:40:15.520] If they ever needed PR.
[00:40:16.480 --> 00:40:19.120] I'm like, we'll do PR for the, for the union.
[00:40:19.680 --> 00:40:24.240] But I think that that's really too, like, it's not just in the everyday.
[00:40:24.240 --> 00:40:31.960] It's also, I think what it really sticks is in the, in these tough, in the tough times.
[00:40:32.280 --> 00:40:39.000] So, like, when we had to fire, we've had to fire maybe one or two clients over the years.
[00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:45.880] And when I, and being the one who says, like, nope, this is now, this is no longer our ideal client.
[00:40:45.880 --> 00:40:47.720] This is no longer a good working relationship.
[00:40:47.720 --> 00:40:48.760] I don't think they value us.
[00:40:48.760 --> 00:40:53.160] Therefore, we're going to say no and make them whole.
[00:40:53.480 --> 00:41:08.520] And I think just being the model for how to handle those difficult things will not only reinforce your values, reinforce your company culture, but it also gives employees a sense that they're being taken care of.
[00:41:08.520 --> 00:41:11.160] I think that's what's also really important, right?
[00:41:11.160 --> 00:41:26.520] Because, I mean, I've never had a real job, so it's hard for me to say, but I, based on my employees, they all have workplace trauma of their bosses throwing them under the bus or making really egregious demands and just not having their back.
[00:41:26.840 --> 00:41:39.960] And so I think that that also, when you as a leader can make these tough decisions in the best interest of your team members, that reinforces the company culture that you're a team, right?
[00:41:39.960 --> 00:41:43.640] They're not there to support you and to do your bidding.
[00:41:43.640 --> 00:41:46.040] Like you are an actual team.
[00:41:46.360 --> 00:41:46.840] Yeah.
[00:41:47.400 --> 00:41:49.320] Yes to all of those things.
[00:41:49.640 --> 00:41:57.560] I want to bring up this like consistency builds legitimacy slash builds trust that is internal as well, which is what you're talking about.
[00:41:57.560 --> 00:42:08.200] That's not just your customers trusting you, but that's your team trusting you and each other too, as you're building this consistency of action and decision making and all of these things, which is really powerful.
[00:42:08.520 --> 00:42:13.120] And I also love that what you're talking about here is just follow through.
[00:42:13.600 --> 00:42:14.000] Right?
[00:42:15.120 --> 00:42:16.960] It's doing what you say.
[00:42:12.920 --> 00:42:17.440] Yeah.
[00:42:13.560 --> 00:42:17.920] Right.
[00:42:13.640 --> 00:42:19.440] And like everything.
[00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:24.880] I think we all, so I wish I could cite the study exactly.
[00:42:24.880 --> 00:42:27.520] There's a study talking about the elements of trust.
[00:42:28.160 --> 00:42:30.000] And we all value different elements.
[00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:32.080] There's like five, I think, five elements of trust.
[00:42:32.080 --> 00:42:34.240] All of us value different things.
[00:42:34.240 --> 00:42:37.280] One of the big ones is congruency.
[00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:41.520] Do you say, do you do what you say and say what you do?
[00:42:41.840 --> 00:42:44.240] And that builds up trust.
[00:42:44.240 --> 00:42:52.000] And so if I say, how many, I mean, how many people who work for shitty companies would hear the line, we're a family.
[00:42:53.280 --> 00:42:54.560] Like, but you're not.
[00:42:54.560 --> 00:42:55.120] Red flag.
[00:42:55.120 --> 00:42:55.680] Red flag.
[00:42:56.720 --> 00:43:00.880] Or say, like, we value our, and this was a big issue with the HarperCollins Union.
[00:43:00.880 --> 00:43:03.680] We value our diverse employees.
[00:43:03.680 --> 00:43:17.440] But when you're not paying them a living wage and giving them only like pigeonholing them into certain types of books because of their diverse backgrounds, like it doesn't feel super good, right?
[00:43:17.440 --> 00:43:32.480] So if I'm telling you, so if I'm telling you, I expect you to take vacation, you have unprescribed vacation, and then anytime you notify me about a vacation, I have a reason that you can't take it, or I kind of look disappointed, right?
[00:43:32.480 --> 00:43:35.040] Like that's not congruent.
[00:43:35.040 --> 00:43:39.520] Then that teaches that you lose trust with your team members.
[00:43:39.520 --> 00:43:41.520] So then they start to fear.
[00:43:41.520 --> 00:43:45.440] They start to fear what kind of response they're going to get.
[00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:47.280] The same as with feedback.
[00:43:47.280 --> 00:44:04.600] So if you teach them that when they present a problem to you, you yell at them, you judge them, you get like angry, you dismiss them, whatever it is, then what's going to happen is they're going to start not coming to you with problems and they're just going to try to quietly shove it under the rug.
[00:44:05.240 --> 00:44:13.960] And so, again, if you're like, I am have open, if your value is communication and openness and collaboration, and then, oh, that's a good example, Emily.
[00:44:13.960 --> 00:44:27.400] So, like, if you value collaboration, and then every time someone on your team presents an idea and you're just like, nope, no thanks, no, we're not doing that next, then they're going to not believe you anymore.
[00:44:27.400 --> 00:44:37.640] And so, I think that you have to, the congruency piece builds up that trust again with your customers or your clients, but also with your team members.
[00:44:37.640 --> 00:44:45.080] And I think that's why so many bigger companies are having trouble keeping their team members because there's not a trust with them.
[00:44:45.320 --> 00:44:51.160] They don't trust their team, they don't trust their boss, they don't trust their corporation, and they want to leave.
[00:44:51.160 --> 00:44:55.720] And that's why we get such great employees.
[00:44:55.720 --> 00:45:00.920] Indeed, we get to heal them in all of their corporate trauma.
[00:45:00.920 --> 00:45:03.800] No, I agree wholeheartedly with all of these things.
[00:45:04.840 --> 00:45:19.080] I feel like you hit all the nuggets, all the important nuggets, with the giving them the language to use and you using the language by you being the example by which everything is happening as hard as it can be sometimes.
[00:45:19.320 --> 00:45:22.840] And really just continuing with the company culture after onboarding.
[00:45:22.840 --> 00:45:29.720] I think that that really is the thing where I recently did a 30-day review with my newest hire.
[00:45:29.720 --> 00:45:34.680] And when I brought her in, this was not the first crystal store she had ever worked for.
[00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:41.560] And but immediately was like really impressed at our organization and communication.
[00:45:41.560 --> 00:45:52.960] And like, you know, I handed her an employee handbook and I handed her a copy of our performance review sort of first day of like, these are the things that you're going to be like, that we're going to be discussing every, like always constantly.
[00:45:53.120 --> 00:45:54.560] This is the language we're going to be using.
[00:45:54.560 --> 00:45:58.240] And then 30 days in, she was like, it really is like this.
[00:46:00.480 --> 00:46:03.040] And I was like, yeah, it's not all smoke and mirrors.
[00:46:03.040 --> 00:46:05.680] Like, this is really how we run the thing.
[00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:10.560] And I think that really sort of builds that trust that keeps everyone going.
[00:46:10.560 --> 00:46:14.720] And it also is in place because everyone is practicing these things, right?
[00:46:14.720 --> 00:46:19.920] It's not just me and the person, it's me and every employee.
[00:46:22.160 --> 00:46:32.880] Settling yourself into the flow of your business from navigating a whole year of ebbs and flows to embracing the energy of each and every day, you're bound to have some ups and downs along the way.
[00:46:32.880 --> 00:46:38.320] For me, this journey of entrepreneurship is made better when my space keeps me focused and inspired.
[00:46:38.320 --> 00:46:47.600] As an example, my favorite way to mark the beginning and ending of the workday is to light a candle when I sit down at my desk and then blow it out when I'm done for the day.
[00:46:47.600 --> 00:46:53.120] It's a little ritual that creates boundaries and a vibe that keeps me focused and feeling cozy.
[00:46:53.120 --> 00:46:55.920] And the ritual candle that we make at Almanac Supply Co.
[00:46:55.920 --> 00:46:57.680] is my favorite for this.
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[00:47:23.360 --> 00:47:27.520] That's almanacsupplycode.com/slash beanboss.
[00:47:32.760 --> 00:47:37.000] Which sort of brings me into maybe our next two questions.
[00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:46.840] One being, what does one do if there are people within an organization who conflict with company values?
[00:47:46.840 --> 00:47:48.920] Ever experience that one?
[00:47:49.880 --> 00:47:51.160] Yes.
[00:47:51.480 --> 00:47:54.840] I think that, yes and no.
[00:47:54.840 --> 00:48:02.440] I think that not all of our company values aren't necessarily the personal values, right?
[00:48:02.440 --> 00:48:06.280] So everyone's coming in with their own values.
[00:48:06.280 --> 00:48:09.800] And that doesn't mean that that aligns with the company values.
[00:48:09.800 --> 00:48:13.560] However, in the context of work, it should.
[00:48:13.560 --> 00:48:17.560] A great example, this is going to sound shitty, but we're just going to say it.
[00:48:17.560 --> 00:48:21.720] So like community is not one of my personal values.
[00:48:21.960 --> 00:48:22.440] Yeah.
[00:48:22.760 --> 00:48:29.160] So I, again, I volunteer, I enjoy my friends, all of those things.
[00:48:29.480 --> 00:48:33.480] And I enjoy spending a lot of time by myself.
[00:48:33.800 --> 00:48:37.560] And I find collaboration really, really challenging.
[00:48:37.560 --> 00:48:40.040] And so it's not one of my values.
[00:48:40.040 --> 00:48:44.200] However, as a company, it's important.
[00:48:44.200 --> 00:48:49.480] I want my company to be a good literary citizen.
[00:48:49.480 --> 00:49:02.920] I want our company to be thought of as someone who engages in the community, who is active, who uplifts other authors, not just their clients, who supports bookstores and libraries and literacy and all those things.
[00:49:02.920 --> 00:49:07.640] So, I think that that's, from a personal perspective, like that is a push and pull, right?
[00:49:07.640 --> 00:49:14.720] Because there's definitely times where I'm like, I want the company to do this, but community expands beyond.
[00:49:14.200 --> 00:49:19.600] So, like, you know, we did for the team, like a virtual holiday party.
[00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:22.800] The entire team wanted the holiday party.
[00:49:22.800 --> 00:49:24.240] And again, I loved it.
[00:49:24.240 --> 00:49:24.880] It was fun.
[00:49:24.880 --> 00:49:26.720] I love everyone on our team.
[00:49:26.720 --> 00:49:30.400] And also, I find those incredibly draining.
[00:49:30.400 --> 00:49:31.360] Not to plan.
[00:49:31.360 --> 00:49:36.960] I can plan a good party, but like, you know, dealing with all of that is a lot for me.
[00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:45.360] And so I think that it just shows our personal values sometimes show up in conflict with the company's values, and then we need to recalibrate.
[00:49:45.360 --> 00:49:55.360] I also think that sometimes people's values, let's say one person values freedom and other person values reliability.
[00:49:55.680 --> 00:50:10.160] And those can sometimes be at odds because one person wants everyone to be working the same hours that they always do when someone else wants to be able to like take a run at midday or go get their nails done in the afternoon or whatever it is.
[00:50:10.160 --> 00:50:17.520] And so I think that, again, going back through the comp, you have to kind of recalibrate everyone through the company values.
[00:50:17.520 --> 00:50:26.320] But if they, if their personal values are so at odds with the company values, then they probably aren't a good fit and they probably shouldn't have made it through these several steps.
[00:50:26.320 --> 00:50:40.960] Like the way you post your job, we talked about in the other episodes, like the way you posted your job description, the places you posted your job description, the way you do the interview, they should have all been filtered out, definitely filtered out at the 30-day review.
[00:50:40.960 --> 00:50:43.600] If you've hired them, like you should be able to see.
[00:50:43.600 --> 00:50:50.400] But throughout our working careers, there's these personal conflicts are going to be at odds.
[00:50:50.400 --> 00:50:58.480] So, like, one example was like during the pandemic, all of our authors' events went remote or went virtual.
[00:50:58.480 --> 00:51:07.720] So, all of a sudden, in theory, we could attend all of our authors' events, not just the ones in our local market.
[00:51:08.360 --> 00:51:12.520] And so, a couple of the employees said to me, like, we really need to be going to all these.
[00:51:12.520 --> 00:51:13.880] And I said, I'm so sorry.
[00:51:13.880 --> 00:51:18.360] Like, I can't even, like, I'm, I'm having like anxiety.
[00:51:18.360 --> 00:51:20.680] I'm like homeschooling a child.
[00:51:20.680 --> 00:51:21.800] Everyone's in my house.
[00:51:21.800 --> 00:51:23.480] Like, I just can't, I haven't left my house.
[00:51:23.480 --> 00:51:24.840] I can't do anything.
[00:51:24.840 --> 00:51:25.640] I can't do it.
[00:51:25.640 --> 00:51:29.080] So, then we had this, but she was right through this community lens.
[00:51:29.080 --> 00:51:33.400] We needed to figure out how to support our clients and the bookstores and whatever.
[00:51:33.400 --> 00:51:38.120] So, we had a schedule where one person from our team went to every event.
[00:51:38.120 --> 00:51:41.160] Like, there was at least one person being represented.
[00:51:41.160 --> 00:51:45.320] The expectation was you did one a week, never more.
[00:51:46.360 --> 00:51:48.520] And that we kind of all agreed on that.
[00:51:48.520 --> 00:51:53.720] So, I think there's going to be things that come up where your personal values and the company values do conflict.
[00:51:53.720 --> 00:52:02.120] And there has to be some sort of middle ground or some sort of like a negotiation that takes place.
[00:52:02.440 --> 00:52:03.080] Yeah.
[00:52:03.400 --> 00:52:12.120] I have a couple of things I want to share around this because, yes, the idea is that people will self-select as you are going through those initial pieces.
[00:52:12.600 --> 00:52:26.200] But, I mean, even I've had people who made it through who, like, once we were in there and I saw past that, like, the performance, I'm like, oh, some things are a little off here and maybe not even like terribly off.
[00:52:26.200 --> 00:52:34.760] I, my most recent one was someone that I just kept saying, like, she's, she's doing a good job, right?
[00:52:34.760 --> 00:52:39.320] Not a great job, not the best, like, but like, barely a good job.
[00:52:39.320 --> 00:52:47.440] And so, one of those situations where, um, where it wasn't a very clear situation, though, I think to everyone around me, they were like, No, Emily, it's clear.
[00:52:47.760 --> 00:52:53.280] But, regardless, um, I think two things that I want to say, well, actually, three things.
[00:52:53.280 --> 00:52:57.520] One, self-select goes far beyond those initial stages.
[00:52:57.520 --> 00:53:00.400] The one that I'm talking about, self-selected still.
[00:53:00.400 --> 00:53:02.880] Like, there was a point where she realized, nope, I'm done.
[00:53:02.880 --> 00:53:05.120] And I was like, Great, I don't got to do this for you.
[00:53:05.120 --> 00:53:05.600] Perfect.
[00:53:05.600 --> 00:53:07.520] So, like, self-selection is still a thing.
[00:53:07.520 --> 00:53:16.160] But in the event that self-selection does not happen, I think, one, hard conversations are a must, an absolute must.
[00:53:16.160 --> 00:53:24.320] I recently had to have a conversation with someone at the store who was acting in a way that was in direct conflict to our values.
[00:53:24.320 --> 00:53:28.320] One of our values is experiencing, is experience.
[00:53:28.320 --> 00:53:33.920] They were making the experience for some of our coworkers a little difficult.
[00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:44.240] And so, I sat them down for a hard conversation about how their actions are in direct conflict with our company values.
[00:53:44.720 --> 00:53:47.440] And it was a great conversation, right?
[00:53:47.440 --> 00:53:51.920] A really hard one to sit down to do, but ended wonderfully.
[00:53:51.920 --> 00:53:55.760] And their performance is that much better because of it.
[00:53:56.080 --> 00:53:57.680] And it's not personal.
[00:53:57.680 --> 00:53:58.320] Yeah, no.
[00:53:58.480 --> 00:54:00.240] I think that's what really makes it great, right?
[00:54:00.240 --> 00:54:01.600] It's not my opinion.
[00:54:01.600 --> 00:54:02.080] Yes.
[00:54:02.080 --> 00:54:04.480] It's not like I don't like this about you.
[00:54:04.480 --> 00:54:07.680] It's that this, I don't like this behavior, right?
[00:54:07.680 --> 00:54:09.280] It's not a subjective thing.
[00:54:09.280 --> 00:54:16.080] It's this behavior does not align with the company values as per the handbook that you signed.
[00:54:16.240 --> 00:54:19.200] It's about the situation, not about you or me.
[00:54:19.520 --> 00:54:20.000] Yes.
[00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:21.760] And that, like, we're all practicing.
[00:54:21.760 --> 00:54:23.280] You're just not.
[00:54:23.600 --> 00:54:24.240] Whatever it might be.
[00:54:24.320 --> 00:54:25.120] You're not practicing.
[00:54:25.120 --> 00:54:28.480] You just need to get a little bit of a refresher, a little bit of a tune in.
[00:54:28.560 --> 00:54:29.360] Yeah, yeah.
[00:54:29.360 --> 00:54:29.680] Yep.
[00:54:29.960 --> 00:54:36.280] And like, and we all talk because everyone trusts me, right?
[00:54:37.240 --> 00:54:43.640] More than anything, because I am here, like doing the thing in the best capacity I can.
[00:54:43.640 --> 00:54:45.400] So there's like a hard conversation.
[00:54:45.400 --> 00:54:53.960] And then finally, this is also where you fire people if necessary and if allowable in your state in general.
[00:54:53.960 --> 00:54:55.880] Please consult Autumn with point.
[00:54:56.200 --> 00:54:58.040] Indeed, indeed.
[00:54:58.200 --> 00:55:00.200] Give it a Google to make sure you can.
[00:55:00.200 --> 00:55:13.160] But I've definitely had, I can think, I can actually only think of one time in particular where I needed to let someone go for this sort of company value purpose.
[00:55:13.160 --> 00:55:26.440] Like they were just like a thorn in everyone's side in just like a light way, but still enough of a way that people were concerned and it was affecting deliverables and they were also client-facing, like all these repercussions.
[00:55:26.440 --> 00:55:34.840] And sitting down and having a serious conversation and really it being like, it's obvious to everyone that you are not happy here.
[00:55:35.160 --> 00:55:37.240] And so let's talk about what this looks like.
[00:55:37.240 --> 00:55:45.320] And again, this context for a conversation that really leads to the best solution in all cases.
[00:55:45.320 --> 00:55:47.880] And that toxicity is contagious.
[00:55:47.880 --> 00:55:48.760] Absolutely.
[00:55:48.840 --> 00:55:52.840] It is a virus that will spread through your company.
[00:55:52.840 --> 00:56:00.520] I, and it has, and the tricky part about firing, so there was an employee that I took way too long to fire.
[00:56:01.160 --> 00:56:04.840] And the reason is, is like you said, she did good work.
[00:56:04.840 --> 00:56:05.320] Yeah.
[00:56:05.320 --> 00:56:08.360] The work was good, not exceptional, right?
[00:56:08.360 --> 00:56:10.920] But exceptionality isn't a company value.
[00:56:10.920 --> 00:56:14.760] And so I think that she did good work, but.
[00:56:14.640 --> 00:56:22.880] But again, her demeanor, the way she showed up for people, those were the kinds of things that just weren't happening.
[00:56:22.880 --> 00:56:25.200] And ultimately, it was a culture fit.
[00:56:25.200 --> 00:56:30.240] And, but it took me a long time to get my head around it because, like, again, on paper, it's like, okay, well, she's getting the stuff.
[00:56:30.240 --> 00:56:31.120] She's doing the work.
[00:56:31.120 --> 00:56:34.800] She's showing up on time, but she's, but there was something off.
[00:56:34.800 --> 00:56:37.680] There was something like a little misaligned, right?
[00:56:37.680 --> 00:56:40.560] The car was rattling a little bit on the way to the store.
[00:56:40.560 --> 00:56:43.760] And so it took me longer for that reason to fire her.
[00:56:43.760 --> 00:56:50.000] If she was, you know, not delivering work on time, if she was acting, you know, in a different way, it would have been easy.
[00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:54.320] But this kind of nuanced thing, it's like this feeling of like something is just not right.
[00:56:54.320 --> 00:56:59.520] Like something, the way she's delivering, the way she's talking to clients just doesn't feel exactly right.
[00:56:59.520 --> 00:57:05.440] The way she's showing up at these events doesn't feel exactly right, even if on paper, the work is fine.
[00:57:05.440 --> 00:57:14.080] So I think that as soon as you know, I mean, obviously have a conversation, document what you need to document, be legal and legit.
[00:57:14.400 --> 00:57:17.440] But for me, Illinois and Aunt Will State.
[00:57:17.440 --> 00:57:28.080] And I think that I, in hindsight, would have liked to, I think I should have let her go a little bit, like, you know, at least a few months before I eventually did it.
[00:57:28.080 --> 00:57:28.560] Yeah.
[00:57:28.560 --> 00:57:31.680] Oh, maybe that'll be next one is firing.
[00:57:32.320 --> 00:57:34.480] I've done that quite a bit, Emily.
[00:57:34.480 --> 00:57:35.440] We can talk about that.
[00:57:36.400 --> 00:57:39.520] And everyone always thanks me when I'm done.
[00:57:41.120 --> 00:57:44.560] I think we have a few people in the C-suite who can talk about firing.
[00:57:44.560 --> 00:57:47.200] And every time we, the thing is, is like we care about people.
[00:57:47.200 --> 00:57:50.080] So, like, we lament over this, we like stress about it.
[00:57:50.080 --> 00:57:51.360] We like practice.
[00:57:51.360 --> 00:58:00.120] And then, every time it happens, they're like the employee who we think is going to freak out, all the stuff, just says, okay, and leaves every freaking time.
[00:58:00.120 --> 00:58:01.000] They don't want to stay there.
[00:58:01.000 --> 00:58:02.040] Easy peasy.
[00:58:02.040 --> 00:58:03.400] No, they don't.
[00:57:59.840 --> 00:58:03.720] Okay.
[00:58:04.200 --> 00:58:10.120] One more, well, kind of two-ish more questions, but one of them is: we've both done this.
[00:58:10.120 --> 00:58:21.560] So, I'm wondering what your thoughts are on this idea of taking an in-person team remote because I know there are a lot of people who like who have done this, especially over the past couple of years, or maybe even tactics for each.
[00:58:21.560 --> 00:58:30.200] So, what makes for great in-person community or culture building and what makes for great remote team culture building?
[00:58:30.840 --> 00:58:36.600] I'd like to say it's the same, but it just shows up, I think, in a different, a little bit of a different way.
[00:58:36.920 --> 00:58:50.680] So, when we went, we went remote in 2016, and we had at the time a handful, no, only two employees, two employees in Chicago, and the rest were remote.
[00:58:50.680 --> 00:58:59.640] And going through the lens of community, it didn't feel right that we were in a conference room on it, and then some people were on a computer.
[00:58:59.640 --> 00:59:03.240] Like, it felt very disjointed, it felt disconnected.
[00:59:03.240 --> 00:59:08.280] And when we went remote, a lot of it was that we wanted everyone to be on the same playing field, right?
[00:59:08.280 --> 00:59:12.520] Like, when we get on a meeting, we're all on the computer, we're all on Zoom.
[00:59:12.520 --> 00:59:21.640] And I think that that, again, going through that lens, consistency, we're all showing up in the same place, community, we're all equal, all those things.
[00:59:21.960 --> 00:59:37.320] When we were in the office, you know, it's funny, Emily, I don't think that it's actually that different, but it might show up in different ways just based on the interpersonal aspect, right?
[00:59:37.640 --> 00:59:44.760] So, like, right now, our culture, we have a, I know you do too, like, how to communicate with your team members.
[00:59:45.120 --> 01:00:00.320] For these kinds of things, for non-urgent project-related things, you post it in a sauna for like things that need collaboration, like, hey, can we talk through a pitch or can we talk through my strategy with this client?
[01:00:00.320 --> 01:00:03.600] Schedule a call, like, get face-to-face and schedule a call.
[01:00:03.600 --> 01:00:08.720] If it's a quick one-line answer type of thing, you can G-Chat.
[01:00:08.720 --> 01:00:13.120] Like, we have like these standard procedures, and that's part of our culture.
[01:00:13.120 --> 01:00:15.600] And part of our culture is respecting other people's time.
[01:00:15.600 --> 01:00:18.000] Honestly, that's really what it comes down to.
[01:00:18.000 --> 01:00:25.360] In the office, we had a really cool loft space, no open concept floor plan.
[01:00:26.000 --> 01:00:30.800] Me and my publicity manager have known each other since college.
[01:00:30.800 --> 01:00:31.840] We were good friends.
[01:00:31.840 --> 01:00:33.280] I hired my very good friend.
[01:00:33.280 --> 01:00:33.840] It worked out.
[01:00:33.840 --> 01:00:35.520] She's been with me eight years.
[01:00:36.080 --> 01:00:39.920] But I think there wasn't, I think that was also a little tricky.
[01:00:39.920 --> 01:00:46.560] There was no policies in place of like when she could just swing her desk towards mine and be like, oh, hey, did you see that?
[01:00:46.560 --> 01:00:47.440] Whatever.
[01:00:47.440 --> 01:00:58.240] So I think it's a little, in some ways, it's a little bit easier to have those boundaries in a remote setting and those standard operating procedures in a remote setting.
[01:00:59.200 --> 01:01:02.640] Because I think that some of the interpersonal stuff is a little bit different.
[01:01:02.640 --> 01:01:17.600] But ultimately, the culture of consistency, creative problem solving, being mindful of your employees, equity, not equality, all of those things, it translates whether it's in person or remote.
[01:01:17.600 --> 01:01:23.840] I'm curious, Emily, about your experience in the REACH, because you have, again, two, you know, we have a retail shop and an online business.
[01:01:23.840 --> 01:01:25.840] Have you noticed a difference?
[01:01:26.160 --> 01:01:26.880] For sure.
[01:01:26.920 --> 01:01:34.680] I mean, yes, and yes, and no, similar to you, like, yes, in a lot of ways, or in some ways, and no, in all the ways that really matter, right?
[01:01:34.680 --> 01:01:37.720] You show up and you do the things in the way you're supposed to do them.
[01:01:37.720 --> 01:01:45.320] You communicate the way you expect everyone to like you do all the things, no matter whether it's remote or in-person.
[01:01:45.320 --> 01:01:53.080] And I think of Indy in particular, we were together, there were three or four of us, you know, in the office.
[01:01:53.080 --> 01:01:56.680] We went remote in 2015.
[01:01:56.680 --> 01:02:05.960] And I remember that shift being difficult for culture and mostly because we had to figure out the new ways of practicing it, right?
[01:02:05.960 --> 01:02:10.600] Similarly, you couldn't just like turn your chair around and be like, hey, we closed that client high five.
[01:

Prompt 2: Key Takeaways

Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.

Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...". 

Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive. 

IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}

Prompt 3: Segments

Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.

For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)  
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion

IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
  "segments": [
    {
      "segment_title": "Topic Discussion", 
      "timestamp": "01:15:30",
      "key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
      "segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
    }
  ]
}

Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.

Prompt 4: Media Mentions

Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:

Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)  
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)

DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names

IMPORTANT: 
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
  "media_mentions": [
    {
      "title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
      "category": "Book",
      "author_artist": "N/A",
      "context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
      "context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
      "timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
    }
  ]
}

If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}

Prompt 5: Context Setup

You are an expert data extractor tasked with analyzing a podcast transcript. 
I will provide you with part 2 of 2 from a podcast transcript. 
I will then ask you to extract different types of information from this content in subsequent messages. Please confirm you have received and understood the transcript content.

Transcript section:
t, I think that was also a little tricky.
[01:00:39.920 --> 01:00:46.560] There was no policies in place of like when she could just swing her desk towards mine and be like, oh, hey, did you see that?
[01:00:46.560 --> 01:00:47.440] Whatever.
[01:00:47.440 --> 01:00:58.240] So I think it's a little, in some ways, it's a little bit easier to have those boundaries in a remote setting and those standard operating procedures in a remote setting.
[01:00:59.200 --> 01:01:02.640] Because I think that some of the interpersonal stuff is a little bit different.
[01:01:02.640 --> 01:01:17.600] But ultimately, the culture of consistency, creative problem solving, being mindful of your employees, equity, not equality, all of those things, it translates whether it's in person or remote.
[01:01:17.600 --> 01:01:23.840] I'm curious, Emily, about your experience in the REACH, because you have, again, two, you know, we have a retail shop and an online business.
[01:01:23.840 --> 01:01:25.840] Have you noticed a difference?
[01:01:26.160 --> 01:01:26.880] For sure.
[01:01:26.920 --> 01:01:34.680] I mean, yes, and yes, and no, similar to you, like, yes, in a lot of ways, or in some ways, and no, in all the ways that really matter, right?
[01:01:34.680 --> 01:01:37.720] You show up and you do the things in the way you're supposed to do them.
[01:01:37.720 --> 01:01:45.320] You communicate the way you expect everyone to like you do all the things, no matter whether it's remote or in-person.
[01:01:45.320 --> 01:01:53.080] And I think of Indy in particular, we were together, there were three or four of us, you know, in the office.
[01:01:53.080 --> 01:01:56.680] We went remote in 2015.
[01:01:56.680 --> 01:02:05.960] And I remember that shift being difficult for culture and mostly because we had to figure out the new ways of practicing it, right?
[01:02:05.960 --> 01:02:10.600] Similarly, you couldn't just like turn your chair around and be like, hey, we closed that client high five.
[01:02:10.600 --> 01:02:13.720] Or for us, we always took a shot, which is just, I love that.
[01:02:14.200 --> 01:02:14.520] Right.
[01:02:14.520 --> 01:02:15.720] And that was part of the culture.
[01:02:15.720 --> 01:02:22.040] And then actually, we would also always end our workdays, or not always, but very often with a game of darts.
[01:02:22.040 --> 01:02:24.600] We played a lot of darts in the office.
[01:02:24.600 --> 01:02:26.200] It was a ton of fun.
[01:02:26.200 --> 01:02:31.560] And when we went remote, actually, Corey just the other day was like, yo, I miss darts.
[01:02:31.560 --> 01:02:35.080] And it's been eight years, seven years since that.
[01:02:35.160 --> 01:02:42.040] So, like, there are parts of the culture that could not translate in quite the same way that we very much so miss.
[01:02:42.040 --> 01:02:55.880] And that transition was really hard, but also easy in that it's just taking like the communication standards from how we were working in the office to for us, you know, it's Slack and Zoom or whatever it may be.
[01:02:55.880 --> 01:03:03.800] So it was just finding the new ways to the new venues for practicing the company culture, which was difficult.
[01:03:03.800 --> 01:03:07.560] But overall, practicing them is really about the same.
[01:03:07.560 --> 01:03:16.240] And I would argue maybe a little bit easier remote because it's easier to have like the standards, you know, operating procedures or whatever.
[01:03:16.560 --> 01:03:28.960] Whereas I see in the store, or when you're be or when you're in physical space with someone a lot, it's easier to kind of let the communication standards slide, right?
[01:03:28.960 --> 01:03:33.840] Or like, I'm just going to text you that thing, but literally don't ever text me, right?
[01:03:33.840 --> 01:03:36.720] Like, I hate getting work texts.
[01:03:36.720 --> 01:03:38.880] It's my least favorite thing.
[01:03:39.200 --> 01:03:52.400] But it's something that happens a little bit more in the store because, like, I'm just, I just ran downstairs real quick, or like, I ran out to lunch and, you know, I'm not going to be checking Slack and you do just need to know a thing or whatever it may be.
[01:03:52.400 --> 01:04:08.880] So I actually find it a little more difficult sometimes to uphold the standards in the in-person situations because it's so easy to like go in and out of professionalism in a way.
[01:04:08.880 --> 01:04:13.040] Whereas if I'm coming for a 45-minute Zoom, I am there, I'm doing the thing, I'm walking away.
[01:04:13.040 --> 01:04:15.360] Like you get the most professional version of Emily.
[01:04:15.360 --> 01:04:21.360] But if I've been hanging out with you in a store for nine hours, by the end of it, I'm like, fuck everything.
[01:04:21.360 --> 01:04:23.120] Where's the champagne?
[01:04:23.120 --> 01:04:24.240] But it's also impromptu.
[01:04:24.400 --> 01:04:27.840] So I think what you're touching on is that in-person is impromptu.
[01:04:27.840 --> 01:04:37.280] It's impromptu communication as opposed to asynchronous communication, which being remote, it's more asynchronicity.
[01:04:37.280 --> 01:04:44.560] And I think that that lends itself to consider, like, so if you tell me something, like, I don't like, I call them surprises.
[01:04:44.560 --> 01:04:51.440] So if you drop a bomb on me during a meeting, I need time to process.
[01:04:51.760 --> 01:04:53.840] So, and people know this about me.
[01:04:54.000 --> 01:04:57.040] They're like, when I just like go silent, they're like, Dana's thinking.
[01:04:57.360 --> 01:05:04.920] And I think that, so with impromptu communication, it's tricky because someone does something in the moment and you're like, there's something that fires.
[01:05:04.920 --> 01:05:08.920] You're not really sure why it's firing or what you need to do about it.
[01:05:08.920 --> 01:05:16.840] But because you're in person, like you have to deal with it versus if someone posts something in a sauna, they're like, ooh, this isn't aligned.
[01:05:16.840 --> 01:05:29.400] Or we're on a Zoom meeting and someone says something that's not really aligned, then you can like pause, think about it, return to that versus sharing the same space after that meeting.
[01:05:29.400 --> 01:05:30.040] It's harder.
[01:05:30.040 --> 01:05:31.720] It's much harder to process.
[01:05:31.720 --> 01:05:32.440] Absolutely.
[01:05:33.000 --> 01:05:37.880] I also, first of all, your company in-person culture sounds like way more fun.
[01:05:37.880 --> 01:05:43.800] The only thing when you said that I thought of is that every Friday at three, we would clean the office together.
[01:05:44.440 --> 01:05:44.840] Nice.
[01:05:45.080 --> 01:05:46.440] Because we didn't have a cleaning state.
[01:05:48.120 --> 01:05:53.800] That we would like put on some music and like me, the interns, Julia, like we would all just like clean up the office together.
[01:05:54.200 --> 01:05:56.840] Which, again, the culture piece is like, we're all doing this together.
[01:05:56.840 --> 01:05:57.320] Yeah.
[01:05:57.320 --> 01:05:58.840] Like we're all, this is all together.
[01:05:58.840 --> 01:06:01.720] It's not like I'm going to watch the intern clean my office.
[01:06:01.720 --> 01:06:02.200] Yeah.
[01:06:03.400 --> 01:06:09.800] But I also think that I think a shot, if you're doing shots, like I think Marco Polo is ripe for that.
[01:06:09.800 --> 01:06:13.640] Like close the deal, do a little Marco Polo of you taking a shot.
[01:06:13.640 --> 01:06:14.520] Indeed, indeed.
[01:06:14.520 --> 01:06:16.760] We definitely could have translated that one.
[01:06:16.760 --> 01:06:21.960] We also would do lunch every Friday, or I think every other Friday is actually the schedule that we were on.
[01:06:22.280 --> 01:06:23.960] So we would do fun things like that.
[01:06:23.960 --> 01:06:30.440] That has translated into in-person retreats and any opportunity we have to sort of work in the same space together.
[01:06:30.440 --> 01:06:32.840] We do like it has translated.
[01:06:33.240 --> 01:06:34.280] But you're also right.
[01:06:34.280 --> 01:06:40.280] Like, if I'm in the store and someone asks me a question, they're sitting there looking at my face, waiting for an immediate answer.
[01:06:40.280 --> 01:06:48.480] Whereas if it's a Slack, I can pretend like I'm having lunch and just go talk to somebody about that question or whatever it may be, and then come back all fresh and know exactly what to say.
[01:06:48.800 --> 01:07:00.000] And really have had the time to run it through those values and think about not just how Emily would answer this question or deal with this problem, but how is the company going to answer this question or deal with this problem?
[01:07:00.000 --> 01:07:06.400] So it is a little bit different, but in a lot of ways, it is the exact same, I find.
[01:07:07.760 --> 01:07:10.720] Okay, last question for you, Dana.
[01:07:11.360 --> 01:07:23.520] If you could give like one tip for someone who, let's say, actually, any company that exists already has a company culture in place, whether it was intentional or not, right?
[01:07:23.520 --> 01:07:32.800] So whether you have employees, whether you're working by yourself, whether you did this on purpose or you're four years into it and you're like, oh shit, something's happening around me.
[01:07:33.680 --> 01:07:44.720] What do you think is the most impactful thing that you do and/or that you would recommend others do to build and maintain an intentional company culture?
[01:07:45.040 --> 01:07:50.160] I feel like a broken record, but I think it really is getting clear on your values.
[01:07:50.160 --> 01:07:50.640] Yeah.
[01:07:50.960 --> 01:08:01.360] Like getting crystal clear on your brand prop, like your brand summary, your values, like who you are, what you do, how you do it.
[01:08:01.360 --> 01:08:04.080] How are you showing up to do the work?
[01:08:04.720 --> 01:08:10.880] Get really, really clear on that and then distill it down for others.
[01:08:10.880 --> 01:08:18.320] So I think the first step is like getting really clear on like what you value as a company, and then writing it.
[01:08:18.320 --> 01:08:20.560] Again, I journal a lot.
[01:08:20.880 --> 01:08:23.280] So I do like some stream of consciousness stuff.
[01:08:23.280 --> 01:08:25.640] I start highlighting things.
[01:08:25.640 --> 01:08:30.360] And then I'll pull out what I highlighted and make it into something presentable.
[01:08:29.760 --> 01:08:36.600] But really, you need to be, you need to be really clear before you can start conveying it to others.
[01:08:36.920 --> 01:08:40.280] And so I think that's really the first thing to do.
[01:08:40.280 --> 01:08:43.160] If, if you, and I think a lot of us start this way, right?
[01:08:43.160 --> 01:08:50.200] Like, I started PR, book PR specifically, because I just had ideas.
[01:08:50.200 --> 01:08:52.840] I was like, I feel like we could do this differently.
[01:08:52.840 --> 01:08:54.600] I think there's other options.
[01:08:54.600 --> 01:08:57.480] I have some ideas about how we can promote books.
[01:08:57.480 --> 01:09:01.480] I didn't stop to think about like, why do I do this?
[01:09:01.480 --> 01:09:02.520] How am I doing this?
[01:09:02.520 --> 01:09:03.240] How is it unique?
[01:09:03.240 --> 01:09:07.000] Like, I didn't really, for the first six months at least, stop to think about that.
[01:09:07.000 --> 01:09:20.840] So now that you're in it, whether you're day one of your business or day, you know, 10 years in, if you're not clear on exactly like what you do, why, and how, the first step is get really crystal clear on that.
[01:09:20.840 --> 01:09:27.880] And then once you're clear on that, writing it down and conveying it in a way that other people can understand it.
[01:09:27.880 --> 01:09:28.520] Yeah.
[01:09:28.520 --> 01:09:30.040] And then living it every day.
[01:09:30.040 --> 01:09:31.080] Amen.
[01:09:31.080 --> 01:09:31.800] Amen.
[01:09:31.800 --> 01:09:32.840] No, that really is the thing.
[01:09:32.840 --> 01:09:35.240] And I would, I would second that for sure.
[01:09:35.480 --> 01:09:40.120] Beingboss.club/slash values is that page where you have all the resources around it.
[01:09:40.120 --> 01:09:46.120] And I will say my little extra bit on this, you mentioned like making it crystal clear, defining, and all of those things.
[01:09:46.120 --> 01:09:49.000] I like to think of this on multiple different levels.
[01:09:49.000 --> 01:09:54.680] I like to think of it as what these values mean for me whenever I'm making a decision for my company.
[01:09:54.680 --> 01:10:07.480] I like to think of it as how these values show up when I'm talking to an employee or I am talking to a customer, when my employees are talking to each other, when my employees are talking to the customer, right?
[01:10:07.480 --> 01:10:15.000] And then when we're all doing the thing together, because I think it's really easy to be like, my products are here to serve, you know, or to like build community, right?
[01:10:15.120 --> 01:10:19.360] And then you're just thinking like product to customer, which is cool.
[01:10:19.360 --> 01:10:35.040] But where this really is magical and where this really infuses itself into all parts of your business is when you think about how you are practicing it, how your employees are going to practice it, how everybody's going to like internally, how they're going to be practiced with everyone together.
[01:10:35.280 --> 01:10:42.320] Because that is the stuff that once you get that going, it infuses itself naturally into everything that comes out of it.
[01:10:42.320 --> 01:10:42.880] Yep.
[01:10:42.880 --> 01:10:45.200] How you do one thing is how you do everything.
[01:10:45.200 --> 01:10:46.160] Amen.
[01:10:46.480 --> 01:10:48.080] You got amens out of me, Dana.
[01:10:48.080 --> 01:10:50.400] I don't even know the last time I did those.
[01:10:51.040 --> 01:10:53.440] Didn't Kathleen comment on your amens?
[01:10:53.440 --> 01:10:56.640] I feel like she commented in one of the episodes about it.
[01:10:56.960 --> 01:10:58.080] Maybe so.
[01:10:58.080 --> 01:10:59.440] Who knows?
[01:10:59.840 --> 01:11:00.640] Perfect.
[01:11:00.640 --> 01:11:04.400] Dana, tell well, first, thank you for this conversation.
[01:11:04.400 --> 01:11:06.880] I'm so glad we finally got to this part of it.
[01:11:06.880 --> 01:11:12.000] This was the nugget I've been trying to dig into this whole time.
[01:11:14.240 --> 01:11:19.040] And then finally, where can folks find more about you and what you do?
[01:11:19.360 --> 01:11:25.920] My company website is kpublicity.com, k-a-y-e publicity.com.
[01:11:25.920 --> 01:11:34.560] And if you're an author looking to learn more about the publishing industry and promoting your book, you can check out your breakoutbook.com.
[01:11:34.560 --> 01:11:35.360] Perfect.
[01:11:35.360 --> 01:11:39.280] And then actually, finally, finally, what's making you feel most boss?
[01:11:39.360 --> 01:11:41.120] Thought you were going to ask that.
[01:11:41.440 --> 01:11:45.440] It has nothing to do with hiring the company culture these days.
[01:11:46.160 --> 01:11:56.320] In the C, through the help of the C-suite, I recently launched a weekly or a twice-monthly newsletter called the Book PR Report.
[01:11:56.640 --> 01:12:10.200] And what felt really boss was me sitting down for an hour to write this newsletter that people are paying me for my with just my expertise and my knowledge of these current trends.
[01:12:10.200 --> 01:12:19.320] And it feels really friggin' boss to have someone say, I will pay you to send me an email.
[01:12:19.640 --> 01:12:23.880] And that really fueled my morning writing session today.
[01:12:23.880 --> 01:12:35.800] I think that I could argue that in this day and age of online marketing, that may be the most boss thing ever.
[01:12:35.800 --> 01:12:39.560] Having someone literally pay to send you an email.
[01:12:39.560 --> 01:12:40.200] That's genius.
[01:12:41.000 --> 01:12:42.680] Love that for you.
[01:12:44.920 --> 01:12:50.200] Decor for your office, gifts for your clients, celebrations for your own job well done.
[01:12:50.200 --> 01:13:03.320] Find it all and more in our handmade candles and carefully curated collection of crystals and gifts at almanacsupplycode.com/slash being boss and get 15% off with code beingboss at checkout.
[01:13:03.320 --> 01:13:07.320] That's almanacsupplycode.com/slash being boss.
[01:13:07.320 --> 01:13:11.160] Now, until next time, do the work, be boss.

Prompt 6: Key Takeaways

Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.

Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...". 

Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive. 

IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}

Prompt 7: Segments

Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.

For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)  
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion

IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
  "segments": [
    {
      "segment_title": "Topic Discussion", 
      "timestamp": "01:15:30",
      "key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
      "segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
    }
  ]
}

Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.

Prompt 8: Media Mentions

Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:

Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)  
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)

DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names

IMPORTANT: 
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
  "media_mentions": [
    {
      "title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
      "category": "Book",
      "author_artist": "N/A",
      "context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
      "context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
      "timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
    }
  ]
}

If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}

Full Transcript

[00:00:00.480 --> 00:00:07.360] Look, payday is awesome, but running payroll, calculating taxes and deductions, staying compliant, that's not easy.
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[00:00:28.320 --> 00:00:34.720] And we have four years, and I personally recommend you give it a try, no matter how small your business is.
[00:00:34.720 --> 00:00:38.880] And to sweeten the deal, just for listening today, you also get three months free.
[00:00:38.880 --> 00:00:41.360] Go to gusto.com/slash beingboss.
[00:00:41.360 --> 00:00:45.120] That's gusto.com/slash beingboss.
[00:00:46.720 --> 00:00:54.480] Welcome to Being Boss, a podcast for creatives, business owners, and entrepreneurs who want to take control of their work and live life on their own terms.
[00:00:54.480 --> 00:01:09.440] I'm your host, Emily Thompson, and in this episode, I'm joined by Book PR Pro and boss friend Dana Kay to talk about building and maintaining company culture so that you, your employees, and your customers are always taken care of.
[00:01:09.440 --> 00:01:14.960] You can find all the tools, books, and links we reference on the show notes at www.beingboss.club.
[00:01:14.960 --> 00:01:19.760] And if you like this episode, be sure to subscribe to the show and share us with a friend.
[00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:29.520] Dana Kay is a lifelong entrepreneur who believes in the power of storytelling and authentic personal branding.
[00:01:29.520 --> 00:01:37.280] In 2009, she founded K Publicity Inc., a boutique PR company specializing in publishing and entertainment.
[00:01:37.280 --> 00:01:45.680] Known for her innovative ideas and knowledge of current trends, she coaches her clients on how to identify and establish their unique personal brands.
[00:01:45.680 --> 00:01:55.440] In 2016, Dana launched Midwest Mystery Conference, a one-day conference dedicated to crime fiction with mystery author Lori Raider Day.
[00:01:55.440 --> 00:02:04.920] She is also the author of two books, Your Book, Your Brand, The Step-by-Step Guide to Launching Your Book and Boosting Your Sales, and The Personal Brand Workbook.
[00:02:04.920 --> 00:02:08.680] She also serves on the advisory board of Propel PR.
[00:02:08.680 --> 00:02:20.600] Dana can previously be found on the following episodes of Being Boss, episodes number 250, 262, 323, and 333.
[00:02:21.240 --> 00:02:25.560] All right, Dana, welcome back to the conversation we've been trying to have this whole time.
[00:02:25.560 --> 00:02:26.760] We got here.
[00:02:26.760 --> 00:02:29.880] It took a few episodes, but we got here.
[00:02:30.840 --> 00:02:32.280] We did get here.
[00:02:32.280 --> 00:02:41.240] I asked Dana months ago to come have a conversation with me about company culture.
[00:02:41.240 --> 00:02:50.360] And the line of questioning or it's the lines of questioning that you can hear in episodes 323 and then 333.
[00:02:50.680 --> 00:02:53.960] And now we're back in 250, what is this?
[00:02:53.960 --> 00:02:56.680] Two or wherever this ends up landing.
[00:02:56.680 --> 00:02:59.240] And like this was where we were going.
[00:02:59.240 --> 00:03:01.720] It just took us all of those to get here.
[00:03:01.720 --> 00:03:08.280] It's because hiring and culture and all of these things, it's a bigger thing, right?
[00:03:08.600 --> 00:03:11.320] And not all of us are very holistic in the way we practice.
[00:03:11.320 --> 00:03:16.280] So I'm not going to just give, here are my 10 steps to great company culture, right?
[00:03:16.520 --> 00:03:24.200] We need to first talk about the hiring process and then we have to talk about the onboarding and the training and all of those things.
[00:03:24.200 --> 00:03:29.400] So yes, it does take a little bit of time before you can even get to the company culture discussion.
[00:03:29.400 --> 00:03:29.720] Yeah.
[00:03:29.720 --> 00:03:33.560] And neither of those conversations are short and quick either, right?
[00:03:33.560 --> 00:03:43.640] There's a lot of things that go into hiring, like finding the right person, making sure they're the right person, and then onboarding them onto the company.
[00:03:43.640 --> 00:03:50.880] Like, I'm glad this took us three episodes to do it because I feel like we did these three topics, or we did the previous two.
[00:03:51.040 --> 00:03:53.680] We're about to do the third one, justice.
[00:03:53.920 --> 00:03:56.960] Because it is such a big part.
[00:03:56.960 --> 00:04:02.800] It's such a big process, yes, but it's also such a big part of doing business.
[00:04:02.800 --> 00:04:16.160] I think you and I are both in a place in our respective companies where a large part of our time is spent finding the right employees, hiring the right employees, onboarding.
[00:04:16.160 --> 00:04:25.200] And the onboarding process really is at least truly a six-ish month process.
[00:04:25.200 --> 00:04:27.280] It's kind of our job.
[00:04:27.600 --> 00:04:31.440] And also leading and coaching and mentoring.
[00:04:31.440 --> 00:04:37.200] So even when you're laughing, because you know, it's the work is never done.
[00:04:37.520 --> 00:04:47.360] I think that once they're onboarded, then it's like even steeping them deeper into their company culture, making sure that their instincts are right.
[00:04:47.360 --> 00:05:00.880] And as they get different challenges or different things are presented to them, that they know how we as a company would handle it versus just them and their instincts.
[00:05:01.200 --> 00:05:02.800] Yeah, for sure.
[00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:05.760] So we're going to be talking about all of those things today, plus some.
[00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:07.360] Talking about company culture.
[00:05:07.360 --> 00:05:11.680] If you haven't listened to those previous two episodes, I highly recommend you go check those out first.
[00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:15.600] They really are the context that leads us to this conversation here and now.
[00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:21.200] So, that was episodes two, 220, excuse me, 323 and then 333.
[00:05:21.520 --> 00:05:24.640] And now we're here to talk about sort of this last piece.
[00:05:24.640 --> 00:05:36.440] So, you have people in, you have people doing their job, but I love what you just said about this idea of helping people make decisions based on how the company would make decisions.
[00:05:36.600 --> 00:05:40.600] I feel like that's a really great sort of point to this company culture.
[00:05:40.600 --> 00:05:46.520] But to kick us off, how do you define company culture and why do you think it's important?
[00:05:47.000 --> 00:06:01.640] I think the definition that I go to, and I think this one is helpful because there might be people listening who are still solopreneurs or maybe always want to be solopreneurs, but even if you're a solopreneur, you still have a company culture.
[00:06:01.640 --> 00:06:06.200] And your services and your offerings, that's what you do.
[00:06:06.520 --> 00:06:09.800] The company culture aligns in how you do it.
[00:06:09.800 --> 00:06:19.480] This is how you're showing up to do the work, how you're showing up for your clients, how you're showing up in your retail store, how you're showing up on social media.
[00:06:20.200 --> 00:06:21.400] It's the how.
[00:06:21.720 --> 00:06:34.200] There's lots of crystal shop owners, there's lots of publicists, but the difference between Almanac and the others, or K-Publicity and the others, is that our culture is different.
[00:06:34.200 --> 00:06:36.040] Our culture is what makes us unique.
[00:06:36.040 --> 00:06:41.720] When you walk into your store, it feels different than some of the other crystal stores.
[00:06:41.720 --> 00:06:55.000] When people walk into our virtual, you know, our virtual services, when they have their first onboarding call, when they get our proposals, when they talk to our team members, it's a different experience than speaking to other publicists.
[00:06:55.000 --> 00:07:14.800] And so, the culture piece is baked in, but in the context of employees, it's making sure that they understand that culture and understand the how we do it so that they can continue to kind of like reinforce this with whoever they come in contact with.
[00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:17.920] So, Emily, you're not at the shop every day.
[00:07:14.520 --> 00:07:20.160] I'm not talking to our clients.
[00:07:20.480 --> 00:07:25.200] I don't talk to that many of our clients anymore, which is an interesting, interesting shift.
[00:07:25.200 --> 00:07:39.360] But I'm really confident that whoever walks into your store and whatever team member the client talks to or the media professional talks to, we're all going to give them the same, Tara McMahon calls it the special sauce, like the how we do it.
[00:07:39.360 --> 00:07:45.920] They're going to all give them the same treatment regardless of who's working the front or regardless of who answers the phone.
[00:07:46.880 --> 00:07:47.680] Beautiful.
[00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:48.240] I love that.
[00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:55.440] That's a really great sort of summation of what I think is, it's not a definition that's really easy to pin down.
[00:07:55.440 --> 00:08:00.400] Like, I don't think anyone can ever be like, company culture is, here are eight words that define the thing, right?
[00:08:00.400 --> 00:08:01.360] There's lots of pieces.
[00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:03.600] It sort of lives and breathes and moves and all of these things.
[00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:06.400] And it really encompasses so much of what you do.
[00:08:06.720 --> 00:08:21.360] And you mentioned the like how it is that you do things, but I think that comes from a why it is that you do things, which we talked about in the last episode, last part of this, where we talked about values, right?
[00:08:21.360 --> 00:08:22.720] The values are the why.
[00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:30.480] That's how you like get down into, like, if you value, you know, at Almanac, we value collaboration.
[00:08:30.480 --> 00:08:32.480] So, or that's one of our company values.
[00:08:32.480 --> 00:08:37.200] So, that really plays into the how we do a lot of things.
[00:08:37.520 --> 00:08:38.640] So, I think it's values.
[00:08:38.640 --> 00:08:40.400] I also think it's very much so goals.
[00:08:40.400 --> 00:08:47.360] It's an understanding of the goals, depending on where you're working towards, will sort of dictate how it is that you move toward that thing as well.
[00:08:47.360 --> 00:08:52.560] And then also the attitudes that you have as you're doing things.
[00:08:52.560 --> 00:08:52.960] You're right.
[00:08:52.960 --> 00:09:20.840] I think, or I hope, and I know in a lot of ways, that whenever someone walks into the store, the experience they're getting from one employee is going to be the exact or a very similar attitude as they're going to get from, you know, whether it's me or one of my employees, whether it's a key holder or a sales associate or just the person working in the stock room and the downstairs who's upstairs for a second and also greeting someone who comes in.
[00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:25.560] There's these pieces of the company culture that are defined.
[00:09:25.560 --> 00:09:37.640] And I think the values and goals help define them that really inform the how, the practices and processes that help you share that company culture within the company.
[00:09:37.640 --> 00:09:43.880] So to each other within the team, but also outside of the company with your customers and clients.
[00:09:43.880 --> 00:09:44.200] Yeah.
[00:09:44.200 --> 00:09:48.920] And I was going to say, like the values conversation really is the heart of all of this, right?
[00:09:49.400 --> 00:09:56.360] Your values, which if you don't know them yet, beingboss.club/slash values.
[00:09:56.360 --> 00:09:58.920] I think there's some great sources there.
[00:09:59.560 --> 00:10:09.320] But I think that getting really clear, and these aren't your personal values, although if you're the business owner, your personal values often get infused into the company ones.
[00:10:09.320 --> 00:10:15.000] However, the company values, that's the lens where we're all operating from.
[00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:19.640] So I might have, we have people on our team who are more creative minds.
[00:10:19.640 --> 00:10:32.440] We have people on our team who are more detail-oriented, analytical thinkers, but we're all looking through the lens of we have three C's: community, creativity, and consistency.
[00:10:32.760 --> 00:10:37.640] And I think the consistency piece is really important for, again, company culture.
[00:10:37.640 --> 00:10:40.120] How you do one thing is how you do everything.
[00:10:40.440 --> 00:10:55.440] And so I think that this translates from the values that we use to serve our clients, as well as using our values to how we support each other, how we interact with each other as team members, how we function as an organization.
[00:10:55.760 --> 00:10:59.840] And we all look through those lens of those three values.
[00:10:59.840 --> 00:11:02.480] So I think that it's really helpful.
[00:11:02.480 --> 00:11:10.480] The reason that that creates the culture is that we are all gathering around a similar cause.
[00:11:10.480 --> 00:11:17.520] So that's like the why, like why we're doing this, as well as we all are buying into these three values.
[00:11:17.520 --> 00:11:20.880] And so we are all speaking the same language.
[00:11:20.880 --> 00:11:23.680] We're all understanding how we operate.
[00:11:23.680 --> 00:11:32.480] And when there are tensions between employees, between me and my team members, between employees and clients, we can keep coming back to that.
[00:11:32.480 --> 00:11:37.680] Where if something gets tense, I mean, I have a big team now, and I know Emily, you do too.
[00:11:37.680 --> 00:11:40.240] So like there's personalities, right?
[00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:44.560] Like we all have different quirks and different things.
[00:11:44.560 --> 00:11:49.760] But when things get tense, the way it tension is okay.
[00:11:49.760 --> 00:11:52.160] I think it brings about better ideas.
[00:11:52.560 --> 00:12:04.000] But I think that the way it goes, it prevents the tension from becoming toxic is that we know we're all coming from this shared, these shared ideals, these shared values, and the shared why.
[00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:08.640] And that's what the comp, that's why company culture is so, so important.
[00:12:08.640 --> 00:12:10.320] It's going to keep employees there longer.
[00:12:10.320 --> 00:12:15.760] It's going to act as a filter for employees that are good fits or not.
[00:12:15.760 --> 00:12:19.760] Because people come to us and they're like very, man, I work in publishing.
[00:12:19.760 --> 00:12:24.000] So if you're money driven, you made a big mistake, like going into this industry.
[00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:31.240] So I think that you know, it attracts people who care about the arts, who care about storytelling, fully remote.
[00:12:29.600 --> 00:12:36.120] So it attracts people who are independent contributors and can manage their time.
[00:12:36.440 --> 00:12:42.600] And if you don't value community, like you're going to kind of self-opt out.
[00:12:42.600 --> 00:12:44.600] That's not the, you know, self-select.
[00:12:44.760 --> 00:12:45.000] Yep.
[00:12:45.080 --> 00:12:46.040] There you go.
[00:12:46.520 --> 00:12:56.440] And so I think that if you infuse this idea of culture into everything, there's these tangential things that happen that just make your work easier.
[00:12:56.440 --> 00:12:56.920] Yeah.
[00:12:57.240 --> 00:12:57.880] Yes.
[00:12:57.880 --> 00:12:59.160] I agree with all of that.
[00:12:59.160 --> 00:13:02.440] And I have a couple of things to sort of come off of that.
[00:13:02.440 --> 00:13:05.000] You mentioned that one of your values is consistency.
[00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:08.200] And it's actually something that I thought of before you brought that up.
[00:13:08.200 --> 00:13:17.720] Because even though it's one of your values, I think for any company, company culture brings consistency to what it is that you're doing.
[00:13:17.720 --> 00:13:22.840] And one of the old Emilyisms is that consistency breeds legitimacy.
[00:13:23.160 --> 00:13:31.240] It literally allows or it builds trust between you and your employees and/or you and your customers.
[00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:54.280] And so by having everyone operating under, you know, this lens of the company values, whenever a client talks to you versus talking to your project manager or your assistant or your account rep or whatever, or whether they're visiting you now or next month or a year from now, that consistency is in how it is that you are presenting yourself.
[00:13:54.280 --> 00:14:00.120] And I mean, you as a business in whatever capacity that looks like is what will keep them coming back.
[00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:04.120] It's what will help you with your word-of-mouth marketing and all of those things.
[00:14:04.120 --> 00:14:15.680] You simply by showing up the same every single time, no matter what that, what that entails, builds trust because consistency is what lends to that.
[00:14:15.680 --> 00:14:16.720] So, I want to say that.
[00:14:14.920 --> 00:14:20.000] And then I also want to talk about this through the lens of the values.
[00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:23.280] I can't remember if I said this in the last episode or not.
[00:14:23.520 --> 00:14:26.720] I say this sometimes and calls and like all the things.
[00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:27.200] Who knows?
[00:14:27.200 --> 00:14:29.840] So, apologies if I'm repeating myself.
[00:14:30.160 --> 00:14:43.600] But one of the things that I tell my team, and I think we're going to get into this a little more in a minute, is as I'm onboarding people on like their first day of work, we're going through the employee handbook together, we're doing, you know, talking about all of these things.
[00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:51.360] And I always stop and hit on values in particular because that really is the lens through which everything should and could be done.
[00:14:51.360 --> 00:15:04.320] And I always tell them when it comes to decision-making, if I can ever see that you made a decision through the lens of your values, I won't care or through the lens of our values.
[00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:07.760] Let me go back and edit that one.
[00:15:08.400 --> 00:15:26.320] If I can see that you thought about what our values are and you made that decision based on the values, if it's something that didn't previously have processes in place, whatever it may be, then I know that you made that as a company and not just you with whatever interest you have in mind.
[00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:47.360] And that's really powerful, I think, to give your employees that sort of context through which they can build some autonomy into the job that they do and how you've given them the lens through which they are then, you know, empowered to make whatever decisions they can and will have to make.
[00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:51.200] Well, it goes back to your business changes, right?
[00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:54.960] Like, no day in a retail store is exactly the same for us.
[00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:57.040] Every client is a little different.
[00:15:57.360 --> 00:16:01.560] And if your team members are constantly asking you questions, like, what should I do about this?
[00:16:01.560 --> 00:16:02.120] What should I do about that?
[00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:03.640] Like, that's not an efficient way.
[00:16:03.640 --> 00:16:09.720] You need to create some systematic decision makings for them.
[00:16:09.720 --> 00:16:11.800] And you can't predict anything.
[00:16:11.800 --> 00:16:15.240] You can't make a decision tree for every single scenario.
[00:16:15.240 --> 00:16:31.800] And so when it comes down to it, like looking at our why, looking at the values, and putting it through that lens, because it's interesting you talk about consistency and like clients coming back, because we actually just had a call with a client that we haven't worked with in five years.
[00:16:32.120 --> 00:16:36.200] And she asked, like, she asked, like, what are you doing differently?
[00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:37.800] Like, what would the campaign look like?
[00:16:37.800 --> 00:16:39.000] It's been a minute.
[00:16:39.320 --> 00:16:45.160] And when I look at her campaign, I'm like, the modalities are different.
[00:16:45.160 --> 00:16:49.880] Like, not many blogs now, lots more TikTok now, like those.
[00:16:49.880 --> 00:16:51.960] But the premise is all the same.
[00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:53.400] Where are your readers?
[00:16:53.720 --> 00:16:59.080] Like, it's all about reaching readers and connecting with readers.
[00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:09.960] And so if you're able to distill what you do into something very simple and put that to your team members, then they can make better decisions.
[00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:14.760] So when a client is asking about, should I do this ad campaign?
[00:17:14.760 --> 00:17:16.120] Should I pay to play with this?
[00:17:16.120 --> 00:17:17.640] Should I do this event?
[00:17:17.960 --> 00:17:20.520] They can say, okay, is this going to reach the target audience?
[00:17:20.520 --> 00:17:22.520] Is this going to reach readers?
[00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:25.400] And make a judgment call.
[00:17:25.400 --> 00:17:29.560] And maybe they'll still present it to me, but I'll ask them, okay, well, what do you think?
[00:17:30.200 --> 00:17:32.680] And hopefully, they get to the right decision.
[00:17:32.680 --> 00:17:38.440] Because, again, it's, I think, we talked about this, gosh, it must have been a few years ago now.
[00:17:38.440 --> 00:17:41.240] Can you teach creativity?
[00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:45.360] Like, can you teach creativity and can you outsource your brain?
[00:17:44.840 --> 00:17:50.000] Basically, like, can you teach someone to think like you?
[00:17:50.800 --> 00:18:01.120] I don't want people thinking exactly like me because I don't need a clone, I need, but I need again, that someone who is going to make decisions in this and evaluate things in the way I would.
[00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:04.080] And I think this is the key to it, right?
[00:18:04.080 --> 00:18:13.280] Like, if you want people to make these high-level decisions, because at the time I was thinking, I could never outsource fielding the new clients.
[00:18:13.280 --> 00:18:14.640] Like, I can't outsource that.
[00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:18.800] Like, and then I realized, like, oh, wait, I definitely can't.
[00:18:18.800 --> 00:18:30.720] I have a method to how I evaluate if they're a good fit, making checklists, like having people on calls and me telling them, okay, here's what they said, and here's what I heard.
[00:18:31.040 --> 00:18:36.800] And then them doing the calls, and then them telling me this is what they said, and this is what I heard.
[00:18:36.800 --> 00:18:41.760] And so, you can train people to do business in the way that you do.
[00:18:41.760 --> 00:18:51.200] And if you have, if you're very clear on your values and very clear on your why, that's going to make it all the more, all the more easier.
[00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:53.760] Yeah, not to mention good processes.
[00:18:53.760 --> 00:18:55.120] Good processes.
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[00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:04.360] Okay, perfect.
[00:20:04.360 --> 00:20:05.880] Then let's dive into this a little more.
[00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:08.600] I feel like we just gave it like a really good 30,000-foot view.
[00:20:08.600 --> 00:20:10.200] Like, here's kind of what it is.
[00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:11.320] Here's why it matters.
[00:20:11.320 --> 00:20:12.360] Here's how it helps.
[00:20:12.360 --> 00:20:16.600] But what does it actually look like to build a company culture?
[00:20:16.600 --> 00:20:18.600] Because I think this is like a make it or break it kind of.
[00:20:18.600 --> 00:20:22.360] Like you're either doing it or you are very much so not doing it.
[00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:30.600] And it's very obvious, I think, for anyone within the organization and oftentimes even outside of an organization, whether or not you're doing it.
[00:20:30.840 --> 00:20:34.040] Like it's, if it's toxic, everybody knows.
[00:20:34.040 --> 00:20:37.160] If it's not working, everybody knows and no one feels good about it.
[00:20:37.160 --> 00:20:41.400] But when it is, it can really be a magical thing that makes some great things happen.
[00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:47.800] So when it comes to company culture, how do you nurture it in your team?
[00:20:47.800 --> 00:20:49.080] What does it look like?
[00:20:49.080 --> 00:20:50.600] Sort of what does it entail?
[00:20:50.600 --> 00:20:52.520] And how are you infusing it?
[00:20:52.520 --> 00:21:01.240] Maybe from even like the very beginning, maybe even like at the hiring phase, all the way through to just any old Tuesday.
[00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:07.400] Well, definitely at the hiring phase, I try to get a sense if they are community-minded, if they're consistent.
[00:21:07.400 --> 00:21:20.160] Like, you know, when you interview people, it's a performance, and some people are good performers, and you try to ask questions that get to the root of some of the things and get them to show their true colors.
[00:21:20.320 --> 00:21:29.040] So, if what I'm hearing in an interview does not align with what I saw in the cover letter, with what I saw in their resume, with some of their answers that they got, those sorts of things.
[00:21:29.040 --> 00:21:32.000] So, I can see consistency.
[00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:40.400] I can look at their, I'll ask them questions about things that they're how are they active in their community and just get a sense of their community-mindedness.
[00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:47.280] And then I always ask questions that try to get a hint of their creativity: like, do you have any passions outside of work?
[00:21:47.280 --> 00:21:51.840] Do you tell me about something you did, created that we're really proud of?
[00:21:51.840 --> 00:21:55.600] Those sorts of things, just to get a sense if they are creative thinkers.
[00:21:55.600 --> 00:21:58.480] And so, the hiring process is definitely the first one.
[00:21:58.480 --> 00:22:01.520] Um, the oh, I also have a note here that I want to add.
[00:22:01.520 --> 00:22:18.880] One of the things that I also find whenever you go along this line of values-oriented questioning in the hiring process is that those who resonate with it are more likely to excitedly follow up 100% and not just like a general, like, oh, you know, it was nice meeting you last week, how'd it go?
[00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:23.760] But, like, someone who's going to reply back and be like, That was the best interview I've ever had, right?
[00:22:23.760 --> 00:22:27.120] I would love to know if I can work with you or not, whatever it may be.
[00:22:27.120 --> 00:22:32.720] That it does some filtering on its own just by asking those kinds of questions.
[00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:35.360] Yeah, and you sell the candidate in many ways, right?
[00:22:35.360 --> 00:22:44.000] Like, you're, I think we talked about this in the context of brand, but you want to be a magnet, you want to attract the right people and repel the wrong people.
[00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:52.720] And so, I think that asking these types of interview questions that they're not expecting that dive a little deeper, which is also again part of our culture.
[00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:54.560] Like, I hate small talk.
[00:22:54.560 --> 00:22:56.800] That's my personal, personal thing.
[00:22:56.800 --> 00:22:57.600] I hate small talk.
[00:22:57.600 --> 00:22:59.120] Let's go deep right away.
[00:22:59.120 --> 00:23:06.360] And so, if you, if that turns you off, if you want to talk about weather and nonsense, I'm like, I don't think you're gonna like our check-in.
[00:23:06.440 --> 00:23:10.760] We have a weekly, we have two weekly team meetings, but their kickoff one on Monday.
[00:23:10.760 --> 00:23:19.880] We always have a check-in question, and these aren't like occasionally we'll get a favorite TV show or something like that, but usually it's like what's sparking your creativity?
[00:23:19.880 --> 00:23:24.760] What if you were on a desert island and can only read one genre, what would it be?
[00:23:24.760 --> 00:23:28.120] And like, it causes people to think very differently.
[00:23:28.120 --> 00:23:31.400] And I think, again, that's it, it's infused, it's infused in our culture.
[00:23:31.400 --> 00:23:36.760] And if you're thrown off by these non or these atypical questions, then yep, not the right fit.
[00:23:36.920 --> 00:23:39.560] Yeah, it's in our handbook, it's our onboarding process.
[00:23:39.560 --> 00:23:42.200] So, our onboarding process, again, consistency.
[00:23:42.200 --> 00:23:46.760] Like, we have a very buttoned up onboarding process.
[00:23:46.760 --> 00:23:48.520] We have a handbook.
[00:23:48.520 --> 00:24:00.200] I'm saying this from this position, but I there's no shame because I did not have this all in place three years ago, but we hired a lot of people, and so I had to get that in place real quick.
[00:24:00.200 --> 00:24:05.560] And so, even that piece of infusing some of the culture in the way I word my handbook.
[00:24:05.560 --> 00:24:13.880] So, you might do a template from, I don't know, Google or whatever about like an employee handbook, but you need to put your stuff in it.
[00:24:13.880 --> 00:24:17.240] Like, it needs to be in your voice, your company's voice.
[00:24:17.240 --> 00:24:23.000] What you include in the handbook has a lot to do with what you reflect is important.
[00:24:23.320 --> 00:24:30.760] So, even things like part of our culture is a lot about self-reliance and autonomy.
[00:24:30.760 --> 00:24:34.840] And so, in the employee, we have non-prescribed vacation days.
[00:24:34.840 --> 00:24:40.680] And in the handbook, we say, We assume that you are going to take vacation.
[00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:43.880] It is healthy for you to take time away from work.
[00:24:43.880 --> 00:24:48.480] Here is the process for notifying when you're going to be out of the office.
[00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:59.120] So, even that framing of like, we expect this to happen, we appreciate work-life balance, and this is how you do it.
[00:24:59.120 --> 00:25:01.680] So, like, that's infused in the handbook.
[00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:12.240] And it's also when I try to make, when I think about making decisions, so like right now, one of the decisions I'm having to make is how to handle some of the health insurance stuff.
[00:25:12.560 --> 00:25:18.000] We have an employee on Medicare, I have to do her things differently than the health insurance.
[00:25:18.320 --> 00:25:24.320] Some people are on their husband's or wives or parents' health insurance, so I'm not paying for it.
[00:25:24.320 --> 00:25:25.520] Does that matter?
[00:25:25.520 --> 00:25:31.760] So, I'm constantly looking through this lens of our, what does, what are the benefits we offer?
[00:25:32.080 --> 00:25:33.840] What are the structures we have in place?
[00:25:33.840 --> 00:25:36.560] And what does that say about our company culture?
[00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:41.680] Because part of it is like equity, not equality, honestly.
[00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:55.600] And so, if giving everyone $500 for their health insurance isn't, it's equal, but it's not equitable because if the 64-year-old needs more than the 25-year-old, it doesn't matter.
[00:25:55.600 --> 00:26:08.800] So, it's even just infusing in how you're like your policies, your procedures, your benefits, again, putting it through the lens of like your values, putting it through the lens of like, what are you conveying by doing it this way?
[00:26:09.120 --> 00:26:14.800] And I think that the fact it drives my accountant crazy sometimes because he's like, just give everyone a flat.
[00:26:14.800 --> 00:26:16.080] Like, what are you doing?
[00:26:16.080 --> 00:26:18.560] But I'm like, but that's not what we do.
[00:26:18.560 --> 00:26:19.760] Like, we're tailored.
[00:26:19.760 --> 00:26:20.960] We're not cookie cutter.
[00:26:20.960 --> 00:26:24.560] Like, our clients don't have cookie cutter campaigns.
[00:26:24.560 --> 00:26:26.160] They're all tailored.
[00:26:26.440 --> 00:26:31.880] Our, we, again, this idea of equity versus equality is really important to me.
[00:26:31.880 --> 00:26:34.280] And so, we need to infuse that into everything.
[00:26:29.920 --> 00:26:36.760] And what happens is people see that.
[00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:45.640] Oh, and the other thing with our handbook that I was very conscious about is about we don't have maternity leave, but we have caregiver leave.
[00:26:45.640 --> 00:26:58.840] So, whatever care, if you're leaving to take care of a sick parent, a sick, an injured spouse, a child, if you really want to make an argument for your dog, I can maybe get on board with it.
[00:26:58.840 --> 00:27:05.480] But, like, the but this idea too of like, you know, we're not a one-size-fits-all.
[00:27:05.480 --> 00:27:09.720] Like, it's not, I'm not going to penalize people who don't have kids.
[00:27:10.040 --> 00:27:16.280] And I'm not going to, and I want to make sure that if people, I mean, we're reaching this age, right?
[00:27:16.280 --> 00:27:18.440] Like, aging parents is a thing.
[00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:26.280] And if they need that time, there's no difference to me from caring for a newborn and caring for an elderly parent for a time.
[00:27:26.280 --> 00:27:31.880] So, even just, I really look at like the benefits, packages, the structure.
[00:27:31.880 --> 00:27:34.680] I think all of that is infused into the company culture.
[00:27:34.680 --> 00:27:37.080] And with that, too, this idea of community.
[00:27:37.080 --> 00:27:46.360] So, when people go on vacation or when people have to take a leave, we all know that we need to step up.
[00:27:46.680 --> 00:27:56.360] And therefore, the person who's taking vacation is very mindful that when they leave, other people are stepping up and that they would do it for vice versa.
[00:27:56.680 --> 00:27:59.080] The roles would be reversed at some point.
[00:27:59.080 --> 00:28:04.840] So, I think that also creates a sense of that also bakes in this idea of community.
[00:28:04.840 --> 00:28:18.000] So, like, when you leave, you're leaning on someone to cover your stuff so that when someone else leaves, you don't feel resentful, you actually feel grateful that you can return the favor.
[00:28:18.320 --> 00:28:36.240] Yeah, this is the thing that I want to highlight here: is that all of this, most of what you just mentioned, is the employee handbook, which is the thing that they are being like that is the document that they read their first moments on payroll, right?
[00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:38.960] Like, this is how you start the conversation.
[00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:40.960] It's having all of these things in one place.
[00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:43.120] And I will say, I've been very open about this too.
[00:28:43.120 --> 00:28:48.240] I also did not have one of these until it was time for me to really grow the team.
[00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:49.360] And I did.
[00:28:49.360 --> 00:28:58.160] And similarly, when it comes to those values, this is something that I say whenever I'm onboarding people, but it is something that has to be infused throughout.
[00:28:58.800 --> 00:29:02.640] It's all based on these values.
[00:29:02.640 --> 00:29:23.760] And if you cannot draw that line of consistency through what it is that you say and what it is that you do, then you have an opportunity to more holistically approach your company culture in a way that it is fully aligned with your why and how being your values.
[00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:33.120] And it really does start in this case with the first thing they do when they show up to work for you.
[00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:44.720] And I would encourage even those of you who have not hired people yet or have just hired contractors or VAs to still have an employee handbook.
[00:29:44.720 --> 00:29:46.240] It might not be as detailed.
[00:29:46.240 --> 00:29:53.760] It might feel a little silly, but as entrepreneurs, we are awful bosses to ourselves, right?
[00:29:53.760 --> 00:30:03.560] Like if you get paid, if an employee would get paid bi-weekly, then you sure as hell better be paying yourself bi-weekly, right?
[00:29:59.120 --> 00:30:08.680] Like, if you expect people to take vacation, then you yourself should be taking vacation.
[00:30:08.680 --> 00:30:15.320] If you expect your employees to show up on time and to deliver stuff on time, you better do the same.
[00:30:15.320 --> 00:30:21.400] And I think that it's like I said, it seems silly, but like we're not good employees to ourselves.
[00:30:21.400 --> 00:30:27.880] Like, we tend to overwork or underwork sometimes, right?
[00:30:27.880 --> 00:30:35.320] Like, if we're feeling overwhelmed, we might hide or ghost or, you know, we've not us, Emily, but we've seen this happen.
[00:30:35.960 --> 00:30:41.240] And, you know, we also will like forego vacations or like, oh, cash is tight this month.
[00:30:41.240 --> 00:30:42.520] I'm not going to pay myself.
[00:30:42.520 --> 00:30:44.760] And like, those are all horrible habits.
[00:30:44.760 --> 00:30:52.760] So even making an employee handbook for yourself so that you can be a better employee for your own company.
[00:30:52.760 --> 00:30:58.920] And same thing, like looking at through the lens of your values, looking at it through the lens of the culture.
[00:30:58.920 --> 00:31:02.920] And the bonus is that when you do hire an employee, you'll have it ready.
[00:31:03.560 --> 00:31:04.040] Yeah.
[00:31:04.600 --> 00:31:07.800] And a couple, all of that is very true.
[00:31:07.800 --> 00:31:21.000] I also think by you being your best employee in all of those ways, you, especially once you start hiring folks, it becomes more and more important for you to follow your own rules.
[00:31:21.640 --> 00:31:22.280] Right.
[00:31:22.280 --> 00:31:28.360] Because you're like, it doesn't do any good if we have unprescribed vacation time.
[00:31:28.360 --> 00:31:30.600] If I never take a vacation.
[00:31:30.600 --> 00:31:31.160] Yeah.
[00:31:31.160 --> 00:31:31.560] Right.
[00:31:31.560 --> 00:31:37.480] Because then they're going to be like, oh, well, Dana never, she works all the time and never takes vacation and doesn't have any boundaries.
[00:31:37.480 --> 00:31:39.400] So how am I supposed to do that?
[00:31:39.400 --> 00:31:43.080] You kind of set the stage for the rest of the team.
[00:31:43.400 --> 00:31:44.040] For sure.
[00:31:44.040 --> 00:31:52.480] And I even think, you know, the very smallest part of this is our dress code at the shop because I have a bunch of college kids working.
[00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:53.680] I put a dress code in place.
[00:31:53.680 --> 00:31:58.880] It has since been loosened because they didn't all dress like nine-year-olds, which was afraid.
[00:31:58.880 --> 00:32:01.680] You just go into it not knowing what to expect.
[00:32:02.080 --> 00:32:10.480] But I dressed like my expectation of a nine-year-old or whatever until we decided to loosen it up.
[00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:14.400] And I remember one day David was leaving for work in something inappropriate.
[00:32:14.400 --> 00:32:19.760] Obviously, not like on a grand scale, inappropriate by any means, but like his shirt was the wrong color.
[00:32:19.760 --> 00:32:22.000] And I was like, but sir.
[00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:22.800] And he's like, what?
[00:32:22.800 --> 00:32:23.440] I'm the boss.
[00:32:23.440 --> 00:32:30.480] I'm like, exactly, which is exactly why you should be following the instructions to the T.
[00:32:30.800 --> 00:32:35.680] You are the, you are the mold for the consistency, right?
[00:32:35.680 --> 00:32:41.920] In all the ways, whether you like it or not, this is like, this is what being a leader is, whether you like it or not.
[00:32:42.160 --> 00:32:43.680] You're the model, right?
[00:32:43.680 --> 00:32:52.960] Like, it's not, I feel like there was a lot of, this might have been like in the early, like late 90s, early 2000s, where it was like, yeah, the boss did whatever they want and everyone else just had to fall in line.
[00:32:52.960 --> 00:32:54.640] Like, that's not the case anymore.
[00:32:54.640 --> 00:32:58.880] Like, we are all leaders and also employees.
[00:32:58.880 --> 00:33:05.760] I also love that David was just wearing the wrong color because when you said inappropriate, I'm like, was he wearing a crop top and booty shorts?
[00:33:05.760 --> 00:33:07.200] Or what was, what was he going?
[00:33:07.280 --> 00:33:08.000] What was going on?
[00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:18.320] I will say, I actually put some of the dress code things in place because he had this really awful habit of wearing this one pair of jeans that totally had a hole in the butt.
[00:33:18.320 --> 00:33:22.560] Like his, his like pocket had like, you know, come apart.
[00:33:22.560 --> 00:33:31.400] And so like, I was like, okay, I'm going to have to put literally no holes above your knees for David so that he will stop thinking that those jeans are appropriate.
[00:33:31.400 --> 00:33:40.520] Well, and that brings up a good point that you might not understand what you need to infuse into your company culture until it's you're faced with it.
[00:33:40.520 --> 00:33:41.080] For sure.
[00:33:41.080 --> 00:33:41.320] Right.
[00:33:41.320 --> 00:33:45.960] So like as you're hiring people, they might, they'll, I always laugh.
[00:33:45.960 --> 00:33:51.480] It's like when you, when we were baby proofing the house for the kiddo, I'm like, he showed us where to baby proof, right?
[00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:54.600] Like whatever he got into, that's what we needed to baby proof.
[00:33:54.600 --> 00:34:08.040] And it's the same with employees, not that they're babies, but like that they, they will, you'll start to see things and you'll say, like, oh, we don't have a procedure in place for giving peer, like, how do we give peer feedback?
[00:34:08.360 --> 00:34:13.640] Or how do we, who reports to who, or who gives feedback to whom and when?
[00:34:13.960 --> 00:34:15.640] And you start to see those things happen.
[00:34:15.640 --> 00:34:18.040] And then you're like, okay, now we need to have a system in place.
[00:34:18.040 --> 00:34:20.680] Now we need to have a process in place.
[00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:26.360] And you, as the boss, need to like model all of that, right?
[00:34:26.360 --> 00:34:35.000] So like if your policy, our policy is, is that if you need feedback or have questions on something, you first go, you first try to find it yourself.
[00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:36.440] That's the first.
[00:34:36.760 --> 00:34:39.560] And then second is you go to the person who assigned you the task.
[00:34:39.560 --> 00:34:42.200] So if I get, and this, so the same goes for me, right?
[00:34:42.200 --> 00:34:51.800] Like, so if I get assigned a task and I don't understand, my first instinct is just G-chat the person and I'm like, oh, no, no, no.
[00:34:51.800 --> 00:34:53.240] I need to do some research.
[00:34:53.240 --> 00:34:55.240] I need to see if I missed something.
[00:34:55.240 --> 00:35:02.920] And so I have to follow my own rules and go and like, and then when I do go to the person, say, I looked here and here and I can't find it.
[00:35:02.920 --> 00:35:07.560] Can you tell me where it is or if it's missing or et cetera?
[00:35:07.560 --> 00:35:17.440] So I think there's a little bit of you'll set it up, but it's an ongoing process and it's an ongoing process and there's a lot of evolution.
[00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:25.760] So when new team members come, when offerings change, when the industry changes, you might be faced with different things.
[00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:32.400] I don't think culture changes that much, but at the same time, we saw a big upheaval in how we work, right?
[00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:37.680] Like we saw a huge amount of change in our perception around work.
[00:35:37.680 --> 00:35:41.600] I think you and me, Emily, have always been doing business.
[00:35:41.600 --> 00:35:45.120] I think the quote is on our own, live life on your own terms.
[00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:47.280] We've always been doing that.
[00:35:47.600 --> 00:35:54.640] But that's, but when we're hiring people who haven't always been doing that, we have to kind of retrain and reframe.
[00:35:54.640 --> 00:36:04.000] And so your company culture will evolve as industry standards change, as kind of our society adapts and grows.
[00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:14.560] And so I'd love to say that like we haven't changed much, but I think we always do make tweaks and crank different dials and elaborate in certain places.
[00:36:14.560 --> 00:36:22.560] Yeah, I think there's a core that stays the same, but this other part of it does have to be malleable based on when and where we are.
[00:36:22.960 --> 00:36:28.640] Okay, what does this company culture piece look like on an ongoing basis?
[00:36:29.280 --> 00:36:31.200] On an ongoing basis.
[00:36:31.200 --> 00:36:38.880] So I think that establishing from the just from any part of it or part of you as a boss.
[00:36:38.880 --> 00:36:39.520] Okay.
[00:36:39.840 --> 00:36:48.880] So I think that we are always faced, there's seldom a week in our company, where it's just like head down doing work, right?
[00:36:48.880 --> 00:36:58.080] There's always something that comes up, whether it's a new business opportunity or a new partnership or a crisis or issue.
[00:36:58.080 --> 00:37:08.680] And so, the ongoing piece is speaking with the team and speaking with clients in the language that enforces this culture.
[00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:15.960] So, when people, so for example, we just had one of our team members just got back from a conference.
[00:37:15.960 --> 00:37:20.760] And I asked her in the meeting to share how the conference went.
[00:37:20.760 --> 00:37:29.080] And when she shared that, she was able to like support our current clients, introduce them to people, meet new ones.
[00:37:29.080 --> 00:37:37.320] And when she talked about how she spent her time at the conference, that in and of itself reinforced this idea of community.
[00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:40.840] Like, this is how we as a team members show up at a conference.
[00:37:40.840 --> 00:37:43.640] Like, you're not hanging at the hotel bar.
[00:37:43.640 --> 00:37:46.440] You're not, you know, just going to the parties.
[00:37:46.440 --> 00:37:48.280] Like, you're there to support our authors.
[00:37:48.280 --> 00:37:49.880] She was speaking there.
[00:37:50.200 --> 00:37:54.760] She worked one of our clients who was there into her talk, like all of those things.
[00:37:54.760 --> 00:38:02.600] So, again, I think modeling and bringing people up who highlight our culture piece.
[00:38:02.600 --> 00:38:13.080] So, if someone is going to a conference and how she can reinforce community, if I share, I had a difficult conversation with a client, here's how I handled it.
[00:38:13.080 --> 00:38:22.760] Or we were, or the marketing person had a call with a new media platform or new social media platform, which they feel it's like they're popping up all the time.
[00:38:23.160 --> 00:38:33.560] But like, so when she presents it, she presents it in a way and through the lens of like our values, through the lens of how we do business, all of those things.
[00:38:33.560 --> 00:38:40.360] So, it's modeling from a boss standpoint, it's modeling the language, and then it's highlighting when other people model the language.
[00:38:40.360 --> 00:38:45.000] So, I will highlight, I really enjoyed this creative solution to this problem.
[00:38:46.160 --> 00:38:55.840] I really like how this sense of community was with you throughout the conference and just pinpointing how this reinforces.
[00:38:55.840 --> 00:39:02.960] I also think that some conversations are meant to be had in public and some are meant to be had in private.
[00:39:02.960 --> 00:39:14.560] But whenever you, as a business owner, can address something on the company stage, I guess would be the thing, that will also help reinforce.
[00:39:14.560 --> 00:39:20.240] So an example for us was HarperCollins Publishers went on strike.
[00:39:20.560 --> 00:39:27.440] We have a lot of HarperCollins authors and HarperCollins themselves as a client.
[00:39:27.440 --> 00:39:34.240] And a lot of the team members had their opinions about what we should do, but they really looked to me to make a decision.
[00:39:34.240 --> 00:39:41.680] And I said that we are not, we don't cross virtual pick, we don't cross picket lines, virtual or otherwise.
[00:39:41.680 --> 00:39:44.160] So we will not, we're going to fulfill our contract.
[00:39:44.160 --> 00:39:46.000] We have just like one month left on the contract.
[00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:49.920] We're going to fulfill our contract with HarperCollins, but we're not taking on new contracts.
[00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:54.560] And we're going to keep working with our authors and not leave them in the lurch because that's about the author.
[00:39:54.560 --> 00:40:08.080] And so even just like during these moments, these make or break moments, and you got to put your, they to have them see me put my money where my mouth is because we got lots, lots of inbound from Harper during that time, right?
[00:40:08.080 --> 00:40:10.480] Like they need, they have all their employees on strike.
[00:40:10.480 --> 00:40:11.600] They need help.
[00:40:11.600 --> 00:40:13.360] And if they ever needed PR.
[00:40:13.360 --> 00:40:15.520] If they ever needed PR.
[00:40:16.480 --> 00:40:19.120] I'm like, we'll do PR for the, for the union.
[00:40:19.680 --> 00:40:24.240] But I think that that's really too, like, it's not just in the everyday.
[00:40:24.240 --> 00:40:31.960] It's also, I think what it really sticks is in the, in these tough, in the tough times.
[00:40:32.280 --> 00:40:39.000] So, like, when we had to fire, we've had to fire maybe one or two clients over the years.
[00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:45.880] And when I, and being the one who says, like, nope, this is now, this is no longer our ideal client.
[00:40:45.880 --> 00:40:47.720] This is no longer a good working relationship.
[00:40:47.720 --> 00:40:48.760] I don't think they value us.
[00:40:48.760 --> 00:40:53.160] Therefore, we're going to say no and make them whole.
[00:40:53.480 --> 00:41:08.520] And I think just being the model for how to handle those difficult things will not only reinforce your values, reinforce your company culture, but it also gives employees a sense that they're being taken care of.
[00:41:08.520 --> 00:41:11.160] I think that's what's also really important, right?
[00:41:11.160 --> 00:41:26.520] Because, I mean, I've never had a real job, so it's hard for me to say, but I, based on my employees, they all have workplace trauma of their bosses throwing them under the bus or making really egregious demands and just not having their back.
[00:41:26.840 --> 00:41:39.960] And so I think that that also, when you as a leader can make these tough decisions in the best interest of your team members, that reinforces the company culture that you're a team, right?
[00:41:39.960 --> 00:41:43.640] They're not there to support you and to do your bidding.
[00:41:43.640 --> 00:41:46.040] Like you are an actual team.
[00:41:46.360 --> 00:41:46.840] Yeah.
[00:41:47.400 --> 00:41:49.320] Yes to all of those things.
[00:41:49.640 --> 00:41:57.560] I want to bring up this like consistency builds legitimacy slash builds trust that is internal as well, which is what you're talking about.
[00:41:57.560 --> 00:42:08.200] That's not just your customers trusting you, but that's your team trusting you and each other too, as you're building this consistency of action and decision making and all of these things, which is really powerful.
[00:42:08.520 --> 00:42:13.120] And I also love that what you're talking about here is just follow through.
[00:42:13.600 --> 00:42:14.000] Right?
[00:42:15.120 --> 00:42:16.960] It's doing what you say.
[00:42:12.920 --> 00:42:17.440] Yeah.
[00:42:13.560 --> 00:42:17.920] Right.
[00:42:13.640 --> 00:42:19.440] And like everything.
[00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:24.880] I think we all, so I wish I could cite the study exactly.
[00:42:24.880 --> 00:42:27.520] There's a study talking about the elements of trust.
[00:42:28.160 --> 00:42:30.000] And we all value different elements.
[00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:32.080] There's like five, I think, five elements of trust.
[00:42:32.080 --> 00:42:34.240] All of us value different things.
[00:42:34.240 --> 00:42:37.280] One of the big ones is congruency.
[00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:41.520] Do you say, do you do what you say and say what you do?
[00:42:41.840 --> 00:42:44.240] And that builds up trust.
[00:42:44.240 --> 00:42:52.000] And so if I say, how many, I mean, how many people who work for shitty companies would hear the line, we're a family.
[00:42:53.280 --> 00:42:54.560] Like, but you're not.
[00:42:54.560 --> 00:42:55.120] Red flag.
[00:42:55.120 --> 00:42:55.680] Red flag.
[00:42:56.720 --> 00:43:00.880] Or say, like, we value our, and this was a big issue with the HarperCollins Union.
[00:43:00.880 --> 00:43:03.680] We value our diverse employees.
[00:43:03.680 --> 00:43:17.440] But when you're not paying them a living wage and giving them only like pigeonholing them into certain types of books because of their diverse backgrounds, like it doesn't feel super good, right?
[00:43:17.440 --> 00:43:32.480] So if I'm telling you, so if I'm telling you, I expect you to take vacation, you have unprescribed vacation, and then anytime you notify me about a vacation, I have a reason that you can't take it, or I kind of look disappointed, right?
[00:43:32.480 --> 00:43:35.040] Like that's not congruent.
[00:43:35.040 --> 00:43:39.520] Then that teaches that you lose trust with your team members.
[00:43:39.520 --> 00:43:41.520] So then they start to fear.
[00:43:41.520 --> 00:43:45.440] They start to fear what kind of response they're going to get.
[00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:47.280] The same as with feedback.
[00:43:47.280 --> 00:44:04.600] So if you teach them that when they present a problem to you, you yell at them, you judge them, you get like angry, you dismiss them, whatever it is, then what's going to happen is they're going to start not coming to you with problems and they're just going to try to quietly shove it under the rug.
[00:44:05.240 --> 00:44:13.960] And so, again, if you're like, I am have open, if your value is communication and openness and collaboration, and then, oh, that's a good example, Emily.
[00:44:13.960 --> 00:44:27.400] So, like, if you value collaboration, and then every time someone on your team presents an idea and you're just like, nope, no thanks, no, we're not doing that next, then they're going to not believe you anymore.
[00:44:27.400 --> 00:44:37.640] And so, I think that you have to, the congruency piece builds up that trust again with your customers or your clients, but also with your team members.
[00:44:37.640 --> 00:44:45.080] And I think that's why so many bigger companies are having trouble keeping their team members because there's not a trust with them.
[00:44:45.320 --> 00:44:51.160] They don't trust their team, they don't trust their boss, they don't trust their corporation, and they want to leave.
[00:44:51.160 --> 00:44:55.720] And that's why we get such great employees.
[00:44:55.720 --> 00:45:00.920] Indeed, we get to heal them in all of their corporate trauma.
[00:45:00.920 --> 00:45:03.800] No, I agree wholeheartedly with all of these things.
[00:45:04.840 --> 00:45:19.080] I feel like you hit all the nuggets, all the important nuggets, with the giving them the language to use and you using the language by you being the example by which everything is happening as hard as it can be sometimes.
[00:45:19.320 --> 00:45:22.840] And really just continuing with the company culture after onboarding.
[00:45:22.840 --> 00:45:29.720] I think that that really is the thing where I recently did a 30-day review with my newest hire.
[00:45:29.720 --> 00:45:34.680] And when I brought her in, this was not the first crystal store she had ever worked for.
[00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:41.560] And but immediately was like really impressed at our organization and communication.
[00:45:41.560 --> 00:45:52.960] And like, you know, I handed her an employee handbook and I handed her a copy of our performance review sort of first day of like, these are the things that you're going to be like, that we're going to be discussing every, like always constantly.
[00:45:53.120 --> 00:45:54.560] This is the language we're going to be using.
[00:45:54.560 --> 00:45:58.240] And then 30 days in, she was like, it really is like this.
[00:46:00.480 --> 00:46:03.040] And I was like, yeah, it's not all smoke and mirrors.
[00:46:03.040 --> 00:46:05.680] Like, this is really how we run the thing.
[00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:10.560] And I think that really sort of builds that trust that keeps everyone going.
[00:46:10.560 --> 00:46:14.720] And it also is in place because everyone is practicing these things, right?
[00:46:14.720 --> 00:46:19.920] It's not just me and the person, it's me and every employee.
[00:46:22.160 --> 00:46:32.880] Settling yourself into the flow of your business from navigating a whole year of ebbs and flows to embracing the energy of each and every day, you're bound to have some ups and downs along the way.
[00:46:32.880 --> 00:46:38.320] For me, this journey of entrepreneurship is made better when my space keeps me focused and inspired.
[00:46:38.320 --> 00:46:47.600] As an example, my favorite way to mark the beginning and ending of the workday is to light a candle when I sit down at my desk and then blow it out when I'm done for the day.
[00:46:47.600 --> 00:46:53.120] It's a little ritual that creates boundaries and a vibe that keeps me focused and feeling cozy.
[00:46:53.120 --> 00:46:55.920] And the ritual candle that we make at Almanac Supply Co.
[00:46:55.920 --> 00:46:57.680] is my favorite for this.
[00:46:57.680 --> 00:47:11.920] In fact, my whole shop is filled with items that I've curated to create the vibe for feeling connected, in flow, and inspired with candles, crystals, and other goodies to help you create a dreamy workspace, bedside table, or bookshelf.
[00:47:11.920 --> 00:47:23.360] Come gather inspiration and check out my favorite in-stock items at almanacsupplycode.com/slash beanboss and get 15% off with code beanboss at checkout.
[00:47:23.360 --> 00:47:27.520] That's almanacsupplycode.com/slash beanboss.
[00:47:32.760 --> 00:47:37.000] Which sort of brings me into maybe our next two questions.
[00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:46.840] One being, what does one do if there are people within an organization who conflict with company values?
[00:47:46.840 --> 00:47:48.920] Ever experience that one?
[00:47:49.880 --> 00:47:51.160] Yes.
[00:47:51.480 --> 00:47:54.840] I think that, yes and no.
[00:47:54.840 --> 00:48:02.440] I think that not all of our company values aren't necessarily the personal values, right?
[00:48:02.440 --> 00:48:06.280] So everyone's coming in with their own values.
[00:48:06.280 --> 00:48:09.800] And that doesn't mean that that aligns with the company values.
[00:48:09.800 --> 00:48:13.560] However, in the context of work, it should.
[00:48:13.560 --> 00:48:17.560] A great example, this is going to sound shitty, but we're just going to say it.
[00:48:17.560 --> 00:48:21.720] So like community is not one of my personal values.
[00:48:21.960 --> 00:48:22.440] Yeah.
[00:48:22.760 --> 00:48:29.160] So I, again, I volunteer, I enjoy my friends, all of those things.
[00:48:29.480 --> 00:48:33.480] And I enjoy spending a lot of time by myself.
[00:48:33.800 --> 00:48:37.560] And I find collaboration really, really challenging.
[00:48:37.560 --> 00:48:40.040] And so it's not one of my values.
[00:48:40.040 --> 00:48:44.200] However, as a company, it's important.
[00:48:44.200 --> 00:48:49.480] I want my company to be a good literary citizen.
[00:48:49.480 --> 00:49:02.920] I want our company to be thought of as someone who engages in the community, who is active, who uplifts other authors, not just their clients, who supports bookstores and libraries and literacy and all those things.
[00:49:02.920 --> 00:49:07.640] So, I think that that's, from a personal perspective, like that is a push and pull, right?
[00:49:07.640 --> 00:49:14.720] Because there's definitely times where I'm like, I want the company to do this, but community expands beyond.
[00:49:14.200 --> 00:49:19.600] So, like, you know, we did for the team, like a virtual holiday party.
[00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:22.800] The entire team wanted the holiday party.
[00:49:22.800 --> 00:49:24.240] And again, I loved it.
[00:49:24.240 --> 00:49:24.880] It was fun.
[00:49:24.880 --> 00:49:26.720] I love everyone on our team.
[00:49:26.720 --> 00:49:30.400] And also, I find those incredibly draining.
[00:49:30.400 --> 00:49:31.360] Not to plan.
[00:49:31.360 --> 00:49:36.960] I can plan a good party, but like, you know, dealing with all of that is a lot for me.
[00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:45.360] And so I think that it just shows our personal values sometimes show up in conflict with the company's values, and then we need to recalibrate.
[00:49:45.360 --> 00:49:55.360] I also think that sometimes people's values, let's say one person values freedom and other person values reliability.
[00:49:55.680 --> 00:50:10.160] And those can sometimes be at odds because one person wants everyone to be working the same hours that they always do when someone else wants to be able to like take a run at midday or go get their nails done in the afternoon or whatever it is.
[00:50:10.160 --> 00:50:17.520] And so I think that, again, going back through the comp, you have to kind of recalibrate everyone through the company values.
[00:50:17.520 --> 00:50:26.320] But if they, if their personal values are so at odds with the company values, then they probably aren't a good fit and they probably shouldn't have made it through these several steps.
[00:50:26.320 --> 00:50:40.960] Like the way you post your job, we talked about in the other episodes, like the way you posted your job description, the places you posted your job description, the way you do the interview, they should have all been filtered out, definitely filtered out at the 30-day review.
[00:50:40.960 --> 00:50:43.600] If you've hired them, like you should be able to see.
[00:50:43.600 --> 00:50:50.400] But throughout our working careers, there's these personal conflicts are going to be at odds.
[00:50:50.400 --> 00:50:58.480] So, like, one example was like during the pandemic, all of our authors' events went remote or went virtual.
[00:50:58.480 --> 00:51:07.720] So, all of a sudden, in theory, we could attend all of our authors' events, not just the ones in our local market.
[00:51:08.360 --> 00:51:12.520] And so, a couple of the employees said to me, like, we really need to be going to all these.
[00:51:12.520 --> 00:51:13.880] And I said, I'm so sorry.
[00:51:13.880 --> 00:51:18.360] Like, I can't even, like, I'm, I'm having like anxiety.
[00:51:18.360 --> 00:51:20.680] I'm like homeschooling a child.
[00:51:20.680 --> 00:51:21.800] Everyone's in my house.
[00:51:21.800 --> 00:51:23.480] Like, I just can't, I haven't left my house.
[00:51:23.480 --> 00:51:24.840] I can't do anything.
[00:51:24.840 --> 00:51:25.640] I can't do it.
[00:51:25.640 --> 00:51:29.080] So, then we had this, but she was right through this community lens.
[00:51:29.080 --> 00:51:33.400] We needed to figure out how to support our clients and the bookstores and whatever.
[00:51:33.400 --> 00:51:38.120] So, we had a schedule where one person from our team went to every event.
[00:51:38.120 --> 00:51:41.160] Like, there was at least one person being represented.
[00:51:41.160 --> 00:51:45.320] The expectation was you did one a week, never more.
[00:51:46.360 --> 00:51:48.520] And that we kind of all agreed on that.
[00:51:48.520 --> 00:51:53.720] So, I think there's going to be things that come up where your personal values and the company values do conflict.
[00:51:53.720 --> 00:52:02.120] And there has to be some sort of middle ground or some sort of like a negotiation that takes place.
[00:52:02.440 --> 00:52:03.080] Yeah.
[00:52:03.400 --> 00:52:12.120] I have a couple of things I want to share around this because, yes, the idea is that people will self-select as you are going through those initial pieces.
[00:52:12.600 --> 00:52:26.200] But, I mean, even I've had people who made it through who, like, once we were in there and I saw past that, like, the performance, I'm like, oh, some things are a little off here and maybe not even like terribly off.
[00:52:26.200 --> 00:52:34.760] I, my most recent one was someone that I just kept saying, like, she's, she's doing a good job, right?
[00:52:34.760 --> 00:52:39.320] Not a great job, not the best, like, but like, barely a good job.
[00:52:39.320 --> 00:52:47.440] And so, one of those situations where, um, where it wasn't a very clear situation, though, I think to everyone around me, they were like, No, Emily, it's clear.
[00:52:47.760 --> 00:52:53.280] But, regardless, um, I think two things that I want to say, well, actually, three things.
[00:52:53.280 --> 00:52:57.520] One, self-select goes far beyond those initial stages.
[00:52:57.520 --> 00:53:00.400] The one that I'm talking about, self-selected still.
[00:53:00.400 --> 00:53:02.880] Like, there was a point where she realized, nope, I'm done.
[00:53:02.880 --> 00:53:05.120] And I was like, Great, I don't got to do this for you.
[00:53:05.120 --> 00:53:05.600] Perfect.
[00:53:05.600 --> 00:53:07.520] So, like, self-selection is still a thing.
[00:53:07.520 --> 00:53:16.160] But in the event that self-selection does not happen, I think, one, hard conversations are a must, an absolute must.
[00:53:16.160 --> 00:53:24.320] I recently had to have a conversation with someone at the store who was acting in a way that was in direct conflict to our values.
[00:53:24.320 --> 00:53:28.320] One of our values is experiencing, is experience.
[00:53:28.320 --> 00:53:33.920] They were making the experience for some of our coworkers a little difficult.
[00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:44.240] And so, I sat them down for a hard conversation about how their actions are in direct conflict with our company values.
[00:53:44.720 --> 00:53:47.440] And it was a great conversation, right?
[00:53:47.440 --> 00:53:51.920] A really hard one to sit down to do, but ended wonderfully.
[00:53:51.920 --> 00:53:55.760] And their performance is that much better because of it.
[00:53:56.080 --> 00:53:57.680] And it's not personal.
[00:53:57.680 --> 00:53:58.320] Yeah, no.
[00:53:58.480 --> 00:54:00.240] I think that's what really makes it great, right?
[00:54:00.240 --> 00:54:01.600] It's not my opinion.
[00:54:01.600 --> 00:54:02.080] Yes.
[00:54:02.080 --> 00:54:04.480] It's not like I don't like this about you.
[00:54:04.480 --> 00:54:07.680] It's that this, I don't like this behavior, right?
[00:54:07.680 --> 00:54:09.280] It's not a subjective thing.
[00:54:09.280 --> 00:54:16.080] It's this behavior does not align with the company values as per the handbook that you signed.
[00:54:16.240 --> 00:54:19.200] It's about the situation, not about you or me.
[00:54:19.520 --> 00:54:20.000] Yes.
[00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:21.760] And that, like, we're all practicing.
[00:54:21.760 --> 00:54:23.280] You're just not.
[00:54:23.600 --> 00:54:24.240] Whatever it might be.
[00:54:24.320 --> 00:54:25.120] You're not practicing.
[00:54:25.120 --> 00:54:28.480] You just need to get a little bit of a refresher, a little bit of a tune in.
[00:54:28.560 --> 00:54:29.360] Yeah, yeah.
[00:54:29.360 --> 00:54:29.680] Yep.
[00:54:29.960 --> 00:54:36.280] And like, and we all talk because everyone trusts me, right?
[00:54:37.240 --> 00:54:43.640] More than anything, because I am here, like doing the thing in the best capacity I can.
[00:54:43.640 --> 00:54:45.400] So there's like a hard conversation.
[00:54:45.400 --> 00:54:53.960] And then finally, this is also where you fire people if necessary and if allowable in your state in general.
[00:54:53.960 --> 00:54:55.880] Please consult Autumn with point.
[00:54:56.200 --> 00:54:58.040] Indeed, indeed.
[00:54:58.200 --> 00:55:00.200] Give it a Google to make sure you can.
[00:55:00.200 --> 00:55:13.160] But I've definitely had, I can think, I can actually only think of one time in particular where I needed to let someone go for this sort of company value purpose.
[00:55:13.160 --> 00:55:26.440] Like they were just like a thorn in everyone's side in just like a light way, but still enough of a way that people were concerned and it was affecting deliverables and they were also client-facing, like all these repercussions.
[00:55:26.440 --> 00:55:34.840] And sitting down and having a serious conversation and really it being like, it's obvious to everyone that you are not happy here.
[00:55:35.160 --> 00:55:37.240] And so let's talk about what this looks like.
[00:55:37.240 --> 00:55:45.320] And again, this context for a conversation that really leads to the best solution in all cases.
[00:55:45.320 --> 00:55:47.880] And that toxicity is contagious.
[00:55:47.880 --> 00:55:48.760] Absolutely.
[00:55:48.840 --> 00:55:52.840] It is a virus that will spread through your company.
[00:55:52.840 --> 00:56:00.520] I, and it has, and the tricky part about firing, so there was an employee that I took way too long to fire.
[00:56:01.160 --> 00:56:04.840] And the reason is, is like you said, she did good work.
[00:56:04.840 --> 00:56:05.320] Yeah.
[00:56:05.320 --> 00:56:08.360] The work was good, not exceptional, right?
[00:56:08.360 --> 00:56:10.920] But exceptionality isn't a company value.
[00:56:10.920 --> 00:56:14.760] And so I think that she did good work, but.
[00:56:14.640 --> 00:56:22.880] But again, her demeanor, the way she showed up for people, those were the kinds of things that just weren't happening.
[00:56:22.880 --> 00:56:25.200] And ultimately, it was a culture fit.
[00:56:25.200 --> 00:56:30.240] And, but it took me a long time to get my head around it because, like, again, on paper, it's like, okay, well, she's getting the stuff.
[00:56:30.240 --> 00:56:31.120] She's doing the work.
[00:56:31.120 --> 00:56:34.800] She's showing up on time, but she's, but there was something off.
[00:56:34.800 --> 00:56:37.680] There was something like a little misaligned, right?
[00:56:37.680 --> 00:56:40.560] The car was rattling a little bit on the way to the store.
[00:56:40.560 --> 00:56:43.760] And so it took me longer for that reason to fire her.
[00:56:43.760 --> 00:56:50.000] If she was, you know, not delivering work on time, if she was acting, you know, in a different way, it would have been easy.
[00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:54.320] But this kind of nuanced thing, it's like this feeling of like something is just not right.
[00:56:54.320 --> 00:56:59.520] Like something, the way she's delivering, the way she's talking to clients just doesn't feel exactly right.
[00:56:59.520 --> 00:57:05.440] The way she's showing up at these events doesn't feel exactly right, even if on paper, the work is fine.
[00:57:05.440 --> 00:57:14.080] So I think that as soon as you know, I mean, obviously have a conversation, document what you need to document, be legal and legit.
[00:57:14.400 --> 00:57:17.440] But for me, Illinois and Aunt Will State.
[00:57:17.440 --> 00:57:28.080] And I think that I, in hindsight, would have liked to, I think I should have let her go a little bit, like, you know, at least a few months before I eventually did it.
[00:57:28.080 --> 00:57:28.560] Yeah.
[00:57:28.560 --> 00:57:31.680] Oh, maybe that'll be next one is firing.
[00:57:32.320 --> 00:57:34.480] I've done that quite a bit, Emily.
[00:57:34.480 --> 00:57:35.440] We can talk about that.
[00:57:36.400 --> 00:57:39.520] And everyone always thanks me when I'm done.
[00:57:41.120 --> 00:57:44.560] I think we have a few people in the C-suite who can talk about firing.
[00:57:44.560 --> 00:57:47.200] And every time we, the thing is, is like we care about people.
[00:57:47.200 --> 00:57:50.080] So, like, we lament over this, we like stress about it.
[00:57:50.080 --> 00:57:51.360] We like practice.
[00:57:51.360 --> 00:58:00.120] And then, every time it happens, they're like the employee who we think is going to freak out, all the stuff, just says, okay, and leaves every freaking time.
[00:58:00.120 --> 00:58:01.000] They don't want to stay there.
[00:58:01.000 --> 00:58:02.040] Easy peasy.
[00:58:02.040 --> 00:58:03.400] No, they don't.
[00:57:59.840 --> 00:58:03.720] Okay.
[00:58:04.200 --> 00:58:10.120] One more, well, kind of two-ish more questions, but one of them is: we've both done this.
[00:58:10.120 --> 00:58:21.560] So, I'm wondering what your thoughts are on this idea of taking an in-person team remote because I know there are a lot of people who like who have done this, especially over the past couple of years, or maybe even tactics for each.
[00:58:21.560 --> 00:58:30.200] So, what makes for great in-person community or culture building and what makes for great remote team culture building?
[00:58:30.840 --> 00:58:36.600] I'd like to say it's the same, but it just shows up, I think, in a different, a little bit of a different way.
[00:58:36.920 --> 00:58:50.680] So, when we went, we went remote in 2016, and we had at the time a handful, no, only two employees, two employees in Chicago, and the rest were remote.
[00:58:50.680 --> 00:58:59.640] And going through the lens of community, it didn't feel right that we were in a conference room on it, and then some people were on a computer.
[00:58:59.640 --> 00:59:03.240] Like, it felt very disjointed, it felt disconnected.
[00:59:03.240 --> 00:59:08.280] And when we went remote, a lot of it was that we wanted everyone to be on the same playing field, right?
[00:59:08.280 --> 00:59:12.520] Like, when we get on a meeting, we're all on the computer, we're all on Zoom.
[00:59:12.520 --> 00:59:21.640] And I think that that, again, going through that lens, consistency, we're all showing up in the same place, community, we're all equal, all those things.
[00:59:21.960 --> 00:59:37.320] When we were in the office, you know, it's funny, Emily, I don't think that it's actually that different, but it might show up in different ways just based on the interpersonal aspect, right?
[00:59:37.640 --> 00:59:44.760] So, like, right now, our culture, we have a, I know you do too, like, how to communicate with your team members.
[00:59:45.120 --> 01:00:00.320] For these kinds of things, for non-urgent project-related things, you post it in a sauna for like things that need collaboration, like, hey, can we talk through a pitch or can we talk through my strategy with this client?
[01:00:00.320 --> 01:00:03.600] Schedule a call, like, get face-to-face and schedule a call.
[01:00:03.600 --> 01:00:08.720] If it's a quick one-line answer type of thing, you can G-Chat.
[01:00:08.720 --> 01:00:13.120] Like, we have like these standard procedures, and that's part of our culture.
[01:00:13.120 --> 01:00:15.600] And part of our culture is respecting other people's time.
[01:00:15.600 --> 01:00:18.000] Honestly, that's really what it comes down to.
[01:00:18.000 --> 01:00:25.360] In the office, we had a really cool loft space, no open concept floor plan.
[01:00:26.000 --> 01:00:30.800] Me and my publicity manager have known each other since college.
[01:00:30.800 --> 01:00:31.840] We were good friends.
[01:00:31.840 --> 01:00:33.280] I hired my very good friend.
[01:00:33.280 --> 01:00:33.840] It worked out.
[01:00:33.840 --> 01:00:35.520] She's been with me eight years.
[01:00:36.080 --> 01:00:39.920] But I think there wasn't, I think that was also a little tricky.
[01:00:39.920 --> 01:00:46.560] There was no policies in place of like when she could just swing her desk towards mine and be like, oh, hey, did you see that?
[01:00:46.560 --> 01:00:47.440] Whatever.
[01:00:47.440 --> 01:00:58.240] So I think it's a little, in some ways, it's a little bit easier to have those boundaries in a remote setting and those standard operating procedures in a remote setting.
[01:00:59.200 --> 01:01:02.640] Because I think that some of the interpersonal stuff is a little bit different.
[01:01:02.640 --> 01:01:17.600] But ultimately, the culture of consistency, creative problem solving, being mindful of your employees, equity, not equality, all of those things, it translates whether it's in person or remote.
[01:01:17.600 --> 01:01:23.840] I'm curious, Emily, about your experience in the REACH, because you have, again, two, you know, we have a retail shop and an online business.
[01:01:23.840 --> 01:01:25.840] Have you noticed a difference?
[01:01:26.160 --> 01:01:26.880] For sure.
[01:01:26.920 --> 01:01:34.680] I mean, yes, and yes, and no, similar to you, like, yes, in a lot of ways, or in some ways, and no, in all the ways that really matter, right?
[01:01:34.680 --> 01:01:37.720] You show up and you do the things in the way you're supposed to do them.
[01:01:37.720 --> 01:01:45.320] You communicate the way you expect everyone to like you do all the things, no matter whether it's remote or in-person.
[01:01:45.320 --> 01:01:53.080] And I think of Indy in particular, we were together, there were three or four of us, you know, in the office.
[01:01:53.080 --> 01:01:56.680] We went remote in 2015.
[01:01:56.680 --> 01:02:05.960] And I remember that shift being difficult for culture and mostly because we had to figure out the new ways of practicing it, right?
[01:02:05.960 --> 01:02:10.600] Similarly, you couldn't just like turn your chair around and be like, hey, we closed that client high five.
[01:02:10.600 --> 01:02:13.720] Or for us, we always took a shot, which is just, I love that.
[01:02:14.200 --> 01:02:14.520] Right.
[01:02:14.520 --> 01:02:15.720] And that was part of the culture.
[01:02:15.720 --> 01:02:22.040] And then actually, we would also always end our workdays, or not always, but very often with a game of darts.
[01:02:22.040 --> 01:02:24.600] We played a lot of darts in the office.
[01:02:24.600 --> 01:02:26.200] It was a ton of fun.
[01:02:26.200 --> 01:02:31.560] And when we went remote, actually, Corey just the other day was like, yo, I miss darts.
[01:02:31.560 --> 01:02:35.080] And it's been eight years, seven years since that.
[01:02:35.160 --> 01:02:42.040] So, like, there are parts of the culture that could not translate in quite the same way that we very much so miss.
[01:02:42.040 --> 01:02:55.880] And that transition was really hard, but also easy in that it's just taking like the communication standards from how we were working in the office to for us, you know, it's Slack and Zoom or whatever it may be.
[01:02:55.880 --> 01:03:03.800] So it was just finding the new ways to the new venues for practicing the company culture, which was difficult.
[01:03:03.800 --> 01:03:07.560] But overall, practicing them is really about the same.
[01:03:07.560 --> 01:03:16.240] And I would argue maybe a little bit easier remote because it's easier to have like the standards, you know, operating procedures or whatever.
[01:03:16.560 --> 01:03:28.960] Whereas I see in the store, or when you're be or when you're in physical space with someone a lot, it's easier to kind of let the communication standards slide, right?
[01:03:28.960 --> 01:03:33.840] Or like, I'm just going to text you that thing, but literally don't ever text me, right?
[01:03:33.840 --> 01:03:36.720] Like, I hate getting work texts.
[01:03:36.720 --> 01:03:38.880] It's my least favorite thing.
[01:03:39.200 --> 01:03:52.400] But it's something that happens a little bit more in the store because, like, I'm just, I just ran downstairs real quick, or like, I ran out to lunch and, you know, I'm not going to be checking Slack and you do just need to know a thing or whatever it may be.
[01:03:52.400 --> 01:04:08.880] So I actually find it a little more difficult sometimes to uphold the standards in the in-person situations because it's so easy to like go in and out of professionalism in a way.
[01:04:08.880 --> 01:04:13.040] Whereas if I'm coming for a 45-minute Zoom, I am there, I'm doing the thing, I'm walking away.
[01:04:13.040 --> 01:04:15.360] Like you get the most professional version of Emily.
[01:04:15.360 --> 01:04:21.360] But if I've been hanging out with you in a store for nine hours, by the end of it, I'm like, fuck everything.
[01:04:21.360 --> 01:04:23.120] Where's the champagne?
[01:04:23.120 --> 01:04:24.240] But it's also impromptu.
[01:04:24.400 --> 01:04:27.840] So I think what you're touching on is that in-person is impromptu.
[01:04:27.840 --> 01:04:37.280] It's impromptu communication as opposed to asynchronous communication, which being remote, it's more asynchronicity.
[01:04:37.280 --> 01:04:44.560] And I think that that lends itself to consider, like, so if you tell me something, like, I don't like, I call them surprises.
[01:04:44.560 --> 01:04:51.440] So if you drop a bomb on me during a meeting, I need time to process.
[01:04:51.760 --> 01:04:53.840] So, and people know this about me.
[01:04:54.000 --> 01:04:57.040] They're like, when I just like go silent, they're like, Dana's thinking.
[01:04:57.360 --> 01:05:04.920] And I think that, so with impromptu communication, it's tricky because someone does something in the moment and you're like, there's something that fires.
[01:05:04.920 --> 01:05:08.920] You're not really sure why it's firing or what you need to do about it.
[01:05:08.920 --> 01:05:16.840] But because you're in person, like you have to deal with it versus if someone posts something in a sauna, they're like, ooh, this isn't aligned.
[01:05:16.840 --> 01:05:29.400] Or we're on a Zoom meeting and someone says something that's not really aligned, then you can like pause, think about it, return to that versus sharing the same space after that meeting.
[01:05:29.400 --> 01:05:30.040] It's harder.
[01:05:30.040 --> 01:05:31.720] It's much harder to process.
[01:05:31.720 --> 01:05:32.440] Absolutely.
[01:05:33.000 --> 01:05:37.880] I also, first of all, your company in-person culture sounds like way more fun.
[01:05:37.880 --> 01:05:43.800] The only thing when you said that I thought of is that every Friday at three, we would clean the office together.
[01:05:44.440 --> 01:05:44.840] Nice.
[01:05:45.080 --> 01:05:46.440] Because we didn't have a cleaning state.
[01:05:48.120 --> 01:05:53.800] That we would like put on some music and like me, the interns, Julia, like we would all just like clean up the office together.
[01:05:54.200 --> 01:05:56.840] Which, again, the culture piece is like, we're all doing this together.
[01:05:56.840 --> 01:05:57.320] Yeah.
[01:05:57.320 --> 01:05:58.840] Like we're all, this is all together.
[01:05:58.840 --> 01:06:01.720] It's not like I'm going to watch the intern clean my office.
[01:06:01.720 --> 01:06:02.200] Yeah.
[01:06:03.400 --> 01:06:09.800] But I also think that I think a shot, if you're doing shots, like I think Marco Polo is ripe for that.
[01:06:09.800 --> 01:06:13.640] Like close the deal, do a little Marco Polo of you taking a shot.
[01:06:13.640 --> 01:06:14.520] Indeed, indeed.
[01:06:14.520 --> 01:06:16.760] We definitely could have translated that one.
[01:06:16.760 --> 01:06:21.960] We also would do lunch every Friday, or I think every other Friday is actually the schedule that we were on.
[01:06:22.280 --> 01:06:23.960] So we would do fun things like that.
[01:06:23.960 --> 01:06:30.440] That has translated into in-person retreats and any opportunity we have to sort of work in the same space together.
[01:06:30.440 --> 01:06:32.840] We do like it has translated.
[01:06:33.240 --> 01:06:34.280] But you're also right.
[01:06:34.280 --> 01:06:40.280] Like, if I'm in the store and someone asks me a question, they're sitting there looking at my face, waiting for an immediate answer.
[01:06:40.280 --> 01:06:48.480] Whereas if it's a Slack, I can pretend like I'm having lunch and just go talk to somebody about that question or whatever it may be, and then come back all fresh and know exactly what to say.
[01:06:48.800 --> 01:07:00.000] And really have had the time to run it through those values and think about not just how Emily would answer this question or deal with this problem, but how is the company going to answer this question or deal with this problem?
[01:07:00.000 --> 01:07:06.400] So it is a little bit different, but in a lot of ways, it is the exact same, I find.
[01:07:07.760 --> 01:07:10.720] Okay, last question for you, Dana.
[01:07:11.360 --> 01:07:23.520] If you could give like one tip for someone who, let's say, actually, any company that exists already has a company culture in place, whether it was intentional or not, right?
[01:07:23.520 --> 01:07:32.800] So whether you have employees, whether you're working by yourself, whether you did this on purpose or you're four years into it and you're like, oh shit, something's happening around me.
[01:07:33.680 --> 01:07:44.720] What do you think is the most impactful thing that you do and/or that you would recommend others do to build and maintain an intentional company culture?
[01:07:45.040 --> 01:07:50.160] I feel like a broken record, but I think it really is getting clear on your values.
[01:07:50.160 --> 01:07:50.640] Yeah.
[01:07:50.960 --> 01:08:01.360] Like getting crystal clear on your brand prop, like your brand summary, your values, like who you are, what you do, how you do it.
[01:08:01.360 --> 01:08:04.080] How are you showing up to do the work?
[01:08:04.720 --> 01:08:10.880] Get really, really clear on that and then distill it down for others.
[01:08:10.880 --> 01:08:18.320] So I think the first step is like getting really clear on like what you value as a company, and then writing it.
[01:08:18.320 --> 01:08:20.560] Again, I journal a lot.
[01:08:20.880 --> 01:08:23.280] So I do like some stream of consciousness stuff.
[01:08:23.280 --> 01:08:25.640] I start highlighting things.
[01:08:25.640 --> 01:08:30.360] And then I'll pull out what I highlighted and make it into something presentable.
[01:08:29.760 --> 01:08:36.600] But really, you need to be, you need to be really clear before you can start conveying it to others.
[01:08:36.920 --> 01:08:40.280] And so I think that's really the first thing to do.
[01:08:40.280 --> 01:08:43.160] If, if you, and I think a lot of us start this way, right?
[01:08:43.160 --> 01:08:50.200] Like, I started PR, book PR specifically, because I just had ideas.
[01:08:50.200 --> 01:08:52.840] I was like, I feel like we could do this differently.
[01:08:52.840 --> 01:08:54.600] I think there's other options.
[01:08:54.600 --> 01:08:57.480] I have some ideas about how we can promote books.
[01:08:57.480 --> 01:09:01.480] I didn't stop to think about like, why do I do this?
[01:09:01.480 --> 01:09:02.520] How am I doing this?
[01:09:02.520 --> 01:09:03.240] How is it unique?
[01:09:03.240 --> 01:09:07.000] Like, I didn't really, for the first six months at least, stop to think about that.
[01:09:07.000 --> 01:09:20.840] So now that you're in it, whether you're day one of your business or day, you know, 10 years in, if you're not clear on exactly like what you do, why, and how, the first step is get really crystal clear on that.
[01:09:20.840 --> 01:09:27.880] And then once you're clear on that, writing it down and conveying it in a way that other people can understand it.
[01:09:27.880 --> 01:09:28.520] Yeah.
[01:09:28.520 --> 01:09:30.040] And then living it every day.
[01:09:30.040 --> 01:09:31.080] Amen.
[01:09:31.080 --> 01:09:31.800] Amen.
[01:09:31.800 --> 01:09:32.840] No, that really is the thing.
[01:09:32.840 --> 01:09:35.240] And I would, I would second that for sure.
[01:09:35.480 --> 01:09:40.120] Beingboss.club/slash values is that page where you have all the resources around it.
[01:09:40.120 --> 01:09:46.120] And I will say my little extra bit on this, you mentioned like making it crystal clear, defining, and all of those things.
[01:09:46.120 --> 01:09:49.000] I like to think of this on multiple different levels.
[01:09:49.000 --> 01:09:54.680] I like to think of it as what these values mean for me whenever I'm making a decision for my company.
[01:09:54.680 --> 01:10:07.480] I like to think of it as how these values show up when I'm talking to an employee or I am talking to a customer, when my employees are talking to each other, when my employees are talking to the customer, right?
[01:10:07.480 --> 01:10:15.000] And then when we're all doing the thing together, because I think it's really easy to be like, my products are here to serve, you know, or to like build community, right?
[01:10:15.120 --> 01:10:19.360] And then you're just thinking like product to customer, which is cool.
[01:10:19.360 --> 01:10:35.040] But where this really is magical and where this really infuses itself into all parts of your business is when you think about how you are practicing it, how your employees are going to practice it, how everybody's going to like internally, how they're going to be practiced with everyone together.
[01:10:35.280 --> 01:10:42.320] Because that is the stuff that once you get that going, it infuses itself naturally into everything that comes out of it.
[01:10:42.320 --> 01:10:42.880] Yep.
[01:10:42.880 --> 01:10:45.200] How you do one thing is how you do everything.
[01:10:45.200 --> 01:10:46.160] Amen.
[01:10:46.480 --> 01:10:48.080] You got amens out of me, Dana.
[01:10:48.080 --> 01:10:50.400] I don't even know the last time I did those.
[01:10:51.040 --> 01:10:53.440] Didn't Kathleen comment on your amens?
[01:10:53.440 --> 01:10:56.640] I feel like she commented in one of the episodes about it.
[01:10:56.960 --> 01:10:58.080] Maybe so.
[01:10:58.080 --> 01:10:59.440] Who knows?
[01:10:59.840 --> 01:11:00.640] Perfect.
[01:11:00.640 --> 01:11:04.400] Dana, tell well, first, thank you for this conversation.
[01:11:04.400 --> 01:11:06.880] I'm so glad we finally got to this part of it.
[01:11:06.880 --> 01:11:12.000] This was the nugget I've been trying to dig into this whole time.
[01:11:14.240 --> 01:11:19.040] And then finally, where can folks find more about you and what you do?
[01:11:19.360 --> 01:11:25.920] My company website is kpublicity.com, k-a-y-e publicity.com.
[01:11:25.920 --> 01:11:34.560] And if you're an author looking to learn more about the publishing industry and promoting your book, you can check out your breakoutbook.com.
[01:11:34.560 --> 01:11:35.360] Perfect.
[01:11:35.360 --> 01:11:39.280] And then actually, finally, finally, what's making you feel most boss?
[01:11:39.360 --> 01:11:41.120] Thought you were going to ask that.
[01:11:41.440 --> 01:11:45.440] It has nothing to do with hiring the company culture these days.
[01:11:46.160 --> 01:11:56.320] In the C, through the help of the C-suite, I recently launched a weekly or a twice-monthly newsletter called the Book PR Report.
[01:11:56.640 --> 01:12:10.200] And what felt really boss was me sitting down for an hour to write this newsletter that people are paying me for my with just my expertise and my knowledge of these current trends.
[01:12:10.200 --> 01:12:19.320] And it feels really friggin' boss to have someone say, I will pay you to send me an email.
[01:12:19.640 --> 01:12:23.880] And that really fueled my morning writing session today.
[01:12:23.880 --> 01:12:35.800] I think that I could argue that in this day and age of online marketing, that may be the most boss thing ever.
[01:12:35.800 --> 01:12:39.560] Having someone literally pay to send you an email.
[01:12:39.560 --> 01:12:40.200] That's genius.
[01:12:41.000 --> 01:12:42.680] Love that for you.
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[01:13:07.320 --> 01:13:11.160] Now, until next time, do the work, be boss.