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[00:00:00.480 --> 00:00:07.360] Look, payday is awesome, but running payroll, calculating taxes and deductions, staying compliant, that's not easy.
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[00:00:34.800 --> 00:00:38.960] And to sweeten the deal, just for listening today, you also get three months free.
[00:00:38.960 --> 00:00:41.360] Go to gusto.com slash beingboss.
[00:00:41.360 --> 00:00:45.120] That's gusto.com/slash beingboss.
[00:00:46.720 --> 00:00:54.560] Welcome to Being Boss, a podcast for creatives, business owners, and entrepreneurs who want to take control of their work and live life on their own terms.
[00:00:54.560 --> 00:01:07.920] I'm your host, Emily Thompson, and in this episode, I'm joined by my business bestie, Kathleen Shannon, to talk about evolving and pivoting your business, as well as when to undergo a rebrand, which is honestly, maybe never.
[00:01:08.240 --> 00:01:13.840] You can find all the tools, books, and links we reference on the show notes at www.beingboss.club.
[00:01:13.840 --> 00:01:19.200] And if you like this episode, be sure to subscribe to this show and share us with a friend.
[00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:31.520] Whether you're a full-time boss or dabbling in a side hustle, learning from those who have already been there done that is a powerful way to give you a leg up on your own journey.
[00:01:31.520 --> 00:01:45.840] To help you gather those lessons and inspiration, cue up an episode of the Side Hustle Pro Podcast, hosted by Nikayla Matthews Okome, brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals.
[00:01:45.840 --> 00:02:08.040] Join host Nikayla to learn actionable strategies to start small and get going, wherever and whoever you are, as she interviews inspiring black women entrepreneurs like Ashley Reynolds in episode number 309 and a conversation about how Ashley launched and grew the popular stationery brand Cloth and Paper, a special one for all of you Planner 11 bosses out there.
[00:02:08.040 --> 00:02:12.280] Listen to Side Hustle Pro wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:02:15.160 --> 00:02:25.800] Kathleen Shannon is the co-founder and former co-host of the Being Boss podcast, joining me for the first 240-ish episodes of this show with several one-off episodes since.
[00:02:25.800 --> 00:02:33.480] Kathleen is a partner and creative director at Braid Creative, a branding agency she founded with her sister over 10 years ago.
[00:02:33.480 --> 00:02:42.760] Kathleen has always lived by capturing, shaping, and sharing who she is, whether that's with a blog post, a podcast, or on social media.
[00:02:43.400 --> 00:02:44.360] Welcome back to Kathleen.
[00:02:44.520 --> 00:02:45.480] Welcome back to Kathleen.
[00:02:45.480 --> 00:02:46.600] I don't even know how to start this.
[00:02:46.600 --> 00:02:47.000] Welcome back.
[00:02:47.560 --> 00:02:49.800] I'm back, bosses.
[00:02:52.360 --> 00:02:52.840] Right?
[00:02:52.840 --> 00:03:03.240] So in the last episode, Kathleen joined us for, she made this sort of passing but very pointed comment that she just wanted to come back and do more episodes.
[00:03:03.240 --> 00:03:06.360] And afterwards, I was like, if you're serious, come on.
[00:03:06.360 --> 00:03:09.640] I have all of these recording blocks scheduled out.
[00:03:09.640 --> 00:03:11.960] You can come snag any and all that you want.
[00:03:11.960 --> 00:03:13.160] And you were like, are you sure?
[00:03:13.160 --> 00:03:15.000] And I was like, yeah, if you're sure.
[00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:19.000] And so you came and scheduled yourself for basically all of them.
[00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:19.800] Yep.
[00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:21.880] Except for whenever I'm going to be in Japan.
[00:03:21.880 --> 00:03:26.680] So yes, I'm going to be on all the episodes for the next little bit.
[00:03:27.320 --> 00:03:27.720] Yeah.
[00:03:27.720 --> 00:03:27.960] Yeah.
[00:03:27.960 --> 00:03:28.280] Yeah.
[00:03:28.280 --> 00:03:31.880] So actually the way we're allowed.
[00:03:31.880 --> 00:03:35.800] Some of them, the way we're recording and rescheduling.
[00:03:36.760 --> 00:03:38.360] She's just coming to talk.
[00:03:38.600 --> 00:03:39.720] You'll be here for this one.
[00:03:39.720 --> 00:03:42.200] I think we have a couple of guest episodes in there.
[00:03:42.200 --> 00:03:49.040] And then once we get, I think later into like late spring and summer, there's going to be like a whole fun line of Kathleen episodes.
[00:03:49.200 --> 00:03:55.440] And I'm getting very excited about all the things that we can talk about over the next couple of weeks.
[00:03:55.440 --> 00:04:01.200] We have a really fun one planned for tomorrow that we will talk about tomorrow.
[00:04:01.200 --> 00:04:03.440] And then you all will hear about it later.
[00:04:04.160 --> 00:04:12.480] But I'm excited about some of the fun things that in six, I think like one, which will fill like six in podcast years.
[00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:15.360] But I'm excited to have you back.
[00:04:15.360 --> 00:04:35.680] As I've done this show without you for the past couple of years, I do always incredibly miss the ease with which we're able to dive into conversations and really like, I don't know, have a good time, but what I hope and feel is providing some value in a way that makes recording way much more fun for me.
[00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:38.240] So thanks for coming to make my job easy again.
[00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:39.920] I'm happy to do it.
[00:04:39.920 --> 00:04:51.280] You know, that's actually one of my, as a boss, like one of my boss tenants whenever it comes to working for myself and with my team is to just always make everyone else's job a little bit easier.
[00:04:51.280 --> 00:04:52.880] So I'm here for you.
[00:04:54.080 --> 00:04:54.720] I love that.
[00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:56.720] And that's a good boss tenant, right?
[00:04:57.360 --> 00:04:57.920] Yeah.
[00:04:57.920 --> 00:05:00.720] Thanks for not being a Karen, Kathleen.
[00:05:02.640 --> 00:05:04.880] All right, what are we talking about today?
[00:05:06.160 --> 00:05:06.880] All right.
[00:05:07.200 --> 00:05:11.600] Today we are talking, we're doing a branding episode.
[00:05:12.080 --> 00:05:16.000] Very like Kathleen to send over a couple of topics.
[00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:21.040] And one of the big ones, one of the first ones being a conversation about branding.
[00:05:21.040 --> 00:05:28.080] So you were here a couple of weeks ago to talk about personal branding in particular, sort of an updated conversation about that.
[00:05:28.080 --> 00:05:32.360] But today, I think we're here to talk about evolving your brand and business.
[00:05:32.520 --> 00:05:38.360] And we've done a couple of episodes on this in the past, both you and I, but also me with some other guests.
[00:05:38.360 --> 00:05:49.560] They're always really popular episodes because creatives are really great at pivoting and evolving and wanting a rebrand and all of that.
[00:05:49.560 --> 00:05:59.560] So I'm excited to have a chat with you today about this from your perspective and from the sort of evolved perspective that comes from you being in this space for so long.
[00:05:59.560 --> 00:06:04.840] So branding and business, which is a very Kathleen topic.
[00:06:04.840 --> 00:06:10.280] Well, and it's fun because we've both owned a couple of businesses that have evolved themselves.
[00:06:10.280 --> 00:06:30.120] So speaking from personal experience of how we've evolved over the past decade plus in many different of our ventures and endeavors, and then also having been doing braid now for over 10 years, Braid Creative, which is my branding agency that I co-founded with my sister, we're having a lot of repeat clients.
[00:06:30.120 --> 00:06:37.160] So clients that were with us five, eight, 10 years ago coming back because they're evolving their brand.
[00:06:37.160 --> 00:06:42.520] Sometimes it requires a whole rebrand and going through another braid method process.
[00:06:42.520 --> 00:06:53.640] Sometimes it doesn't require anything at all other than just a little bit of permission and reminding them that not a lot has changed just because a couple of things have changed.
[00:06:53.640 --> 00:07:00.120] Like they can still keep their same messaging and positioning and brand, even though they've evolved and here's how to do it.
[00:07:00.120 --> 00:07:03.720] So, I'm hoping to really cover a few of those things today.
[00:07:04.040 --> 00:07:04.680] Yeah.
[00:07:04.680 --> 00:07:14.120] I also think this is a good conversation because I don't know if you feel this way, but my fingers are still so in online business.
[00:07:14.120 --> 00:07:22.160] I feel like for years, we've said online business changes so quickly, but I feel like it's changing at a faster rate now than it ever has before.
[00:07:22.480 --> 00:07:28.080] And it's kind of a wild thing to really be in as deep as I am in.
[00:07:28.080 --> 00:07:33.840] And I would imagine that everyone else who's in it as deep as I am feels it as well.
[00:07:33.840 --> 00:07:40.160] So, I think like people's businesses are evolving faster and more often than ever before.
[00:07:40.160 --> 00:08:05.600] And I also know that any business owner who's about two to three years in their business gets to a point where a refresh, a rebrand, a pivot, something is happening because you've been a business owner for long enough in whatever space you've chosen, doing the thing that you're doing, that you've learned some things and it's time for you to sort of nail it down to narrow in.
[00:08:05.600 --> 00:08:21.360] And so, not only is it something that we know is happening faster, maybe than ever before, because of the nature of how it is that or where it is that a lot of us are doing business, but it is also a part of absolutely everyone's path at some point in the business journey.
[00:08:21.360 --> 00:08:25.600] So, it really is applicable to literally everybody at some point.
[00:08:25.920 --> 00:08:28.720] You know, I can't help but bring astrology into this a little bit.
[00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:35.280] You know, how we have our Saturn return every 28 years, and how in astrology there's these patterns, there's these cycles.
[00:08:35.280 --> 00:08:38.240] And I think that the same thing happens a little bit in your business.
[00:08:38.240 --> 00:08:50.560] So, whenever you were talking about two to three years in, I do think that there is kind of a two to three year cycle in general, whenever it comes to really hitting these milestones, where you're going to evolve.
[00:08:50.520 --> 00:08:58.960] And, and like you said, it's either because you're recognizing patterns, you're maybe shifting an offering, you might be evolving who you serve.
[00:08:58.960 --> 00:09:12.040] So, whether that's narrowing in or expanding out, maybe there's some behind-the-scenes evolutions that have happened, or maybe you're growing your team, or you've gotten further education or certifications or trainings that you want to start to incorporate.
[00:09:12.040 --> 00:09:20.840] So, I'd love to talk a little bit about maybe the different ways and why you might be evolving your business.
[00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:29.560] So, the first thing that I can think of, and the thing that probably shifts the most in general, is shifting your offering or evolving your offerings.
[00:09:29.560 --> 00:09:40.440] So, even if you have a signature offering, which I've had in my business for the past 10 years, and that has really served me well, there might be different iterations of how you expand or scale that.
[00:09:40.440 --> 00:09:53.560] So, for example, at Braid Creative, we shifted our offering of one-on-one branding, and then we scaled it to then offer a course that anyone could buy and do on their own, right?
[00:09:53.560 --> 00:09:57.000] And that's actually an offering that you convinced me to do, Emily.
[00:09:57.000 --> 00:10:03.320] And that was an evolution of going from this one-on-one space into this online space.
[00:10:03.320 --> 00:10:06.360] You might also be, you know, refining your offering.
[00:10:06.360 --> 00:10:19.160] So, maybe at the beginning, you're like, I will do whatever for whoever, whenever, just give me some money, which I think again is really great for younger entrepreneurs or younger in your journey, entrepreneurs.
[00:10:19.160 --> 00:10:33.160] But you might find that you want to really narrow in on one aspect of what it is that you're offering, you know, and really being known for that thing, kind of like really gripping onto an expertise.
[00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:35.720] There's also other ways that your offerings can shift.
[00:10:35.720 --> 00:10:40.920] Like, Emily, can you think of any other ways that your offerings have shifted over the years or evolved?
[00:10:41.240 --> 00:10:42.120] Oh, for sure.
[00:10:42.120 --> 00:10:54.000] I mean, I think, you know, back in my web design days, there was like a very branding print, like any sort of like business graphic design you needed, I would do.
[00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:58.560] In the beginning, sort of what you're saying, that like whatever you need, just give me the money and I'll do it for you.
[00:10:58.560 --> 00:11:12.800] And then evolving into what became our Indie Boom projects, which were these six to 12-month, like big projects where we were doing quote-unquote all the things, but specific things.
[00:11:12.800 --> 00:11:17.040] Like there were, there became things that I would not do anymore.
[00:11:17.040 --> 00:11:20.400] They needed to fit within the confines of these projects.
[00:11:20.400 --> 00:11:22.720] And so that was definitely a big evolution.
[00:11:22.720 --> 00:11:31.120] Or even I think here at Being Boss, you know, here it's a little bit more of a funny story where, you know, we didn't start being boss with a business model.
[00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:32.480] This was just a fun project.
[00:11:32.480 --> 00:11:43.440] So everything that we've done here has been an evolution from this being just a show that we started for fun and marketing to it being a whole thing.
[00:11:43.440 --> 00:11:47.600] And so it was, you know, not a money maker into a money maker.
[00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:50.400] It was live events and then virtual events.
[00:11:50.400 --> 00:11:52.080] It has been coaching.
[00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:53.440] It has been masterminds.
[00:11:53.440 --> 00:11:54.960] It has been so many things.
[00:11:55.040 --> 00:11:59.120] But it's all been within these confines, right?
[00:11:59.120 --> 00:12:13.120] This sort of structure or these boundaries that we created for creatives, which has made it made what could feel like bigger shifts into what is really just evolving because there have been core elements that have stayed the same along the way.
[00:12:13.120 --> 00:12:20.240] Ooh, that's got me really thinking about kind of organic evolution versus intentional evolution.
[00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:26.240] And maybe that's like one of the big defining factors of an evolving business is that it just kind of happens.
[00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:38.440] Like whenever you start to go with the flow and follow your interests and follow what your customers are asking for, and it feels in alignment with what you want to be doing and what you want to be known for, that's like a really great way.
[00:12:38.440 --> 00:12:52.440] And it's really just then noticing that evolution and really shifting the way that you're putting yourself out there to line up with that evolution to make sure that what you're doing is being reflected on the outside.
[00:12:52.440 --> 00:12:58.600] Well, one thing I wanted to mention was with Indie Boom, I think it's also really cool that you evolved that offering.
[00:12:58.600 --> 00:13:00.920] And it really wasn't much of an evolution.
[00:13:00.920 --> 00:13:02.760] It wasn't like this huge evolution.
[00:13:02.760 --> 00:13:08.200] It was kind of just a small tweak that made a huge impact in how you packaged your offerings.
[00:13:08.200 --> 00:13:26.600] So instead of doing a la carte, this and that here and there, where you're spending a ton of time and money on estimates and proposals and dealing with scope creep and invoicing and all of the things, you package it all up so that it's one seamless product.
[00:13:26.600 --> 00:13:38.360] And it really also then serves your client better too, where you have a customer journey that you're taking them on that probably makes them feel more reassured and confident whenever it comes to hiring you.
[00:13:38.360 --> 00:13:41.320] But again, it wasn't this huge shift.
[00:13:41.320 --> 00:13:45.720] It was just a like shift in perspective more than anything.
[00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:48.840] Yeah, I feel like we often talk about dialing it in, right?
[00:13:48.840 --> 00:13:55.800] Like you get the thing and then you just start like making small tweaks of the dial to like really get it to where it needs to be.
[00:13:55.800 --> 00:13:57.000] And that is what evolution is.
[00:13:57.000 --> 00:14:04.840] And I love that you, you brought up this like organic versus intentional of, I think, if I think organic evolution happens.
[00:14:04.840 --> 00:14:06.840] Like markets change, right?
[00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:14.680] Circumstances shift where you are, who it is that you can best service, those sorts of things organically shift.
[00:14:14.680 --> 00:14:26.160] But I think once you start recognizing an organic shift, making it intentional is incredibly important, or else you're going to end up just like way down a road that you never wanted to go down.
[00:14:26.160 --> 00:14:42.880] So there is like a letting things shift as they need to shift and not being too rigid, especially in the online world, but at the same time, being aware and taking a hold of the opportunities when they start showing themselves as being worth the effort.
[00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:48.080] Well, and that comes back to one of our pillars of being boss, which is boundaries and having boundaries.
[00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:56.720] So I think that to evolve in a way that feels really good, it does require having boundaries that you will not cross.
[00:14:56.720 --> 00:15:01.600] So if there's something that you don't want to do, even though every single person is asking for it.
[00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:04.720] So for example, in my business, that would be building websites.
[00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:12.720] People would love it if we were more turnkey and did their branding and their brand package and then could just upload it to a website.
[00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:17.280] But we have found time and time again that it is just not in our wheelhouse.
[00:15:17.280 --> 00:15:19.840] It is not in our core genius.
[00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:21.680] And so we keep declining.
[00:15:21.680 --> 00:15:26.080] And every year or two, I come back to, oh, should we be offering this?
[00:15:26.080 --> 00:15:27.920] Should we grow our team in this way?
[00:15:27.920 --> 00:15:29.600] What would that look like?
[00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:35.040] And time and time again, I have to remind myself: nope, there are reasons why we don't offer web.
[00:15:35.040 --> 00:15:38.000] God bless all of you web designer and developers out there.
[00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:39.200] I feel for you.
[00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:40.960] And I'm like, no, don't do it.
[00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:42.960] Don't do it.
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[00:16:45.800 --> 00:16:49.080] So then, Beving, that's a great picture of evolution.
[00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:53.960] Let's talk about pivoting because I do think this is bigger and it's funny.
[00:16:53.960 --> 00:16:58.760] I feel like most times when people say they're pivoting, they're actually just evolving.
[00:16:58.760 --> 00:17:01.480] So, what actually is a pivot?
[00:17:01.800 --> 00:17:09.400] Yes, I mean, I think of a pivot as making like a 180-degree turn.
[00:17:09.400 --> 00:17:13.800] Like, you are going one way and then you turn and you're going the other way now.
[00:17:13.800 --> 00:17:19.000] So, for me, a pivot looks like burning it all down and starting from scratch.
[00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:29.320] Or it looks like a total rebrand where you're maybe changing your name and maybe your offering isn't changing a whole, whole lot, but that feels a little bit more like a pivot to me.
[00:17:29.320 --> 00:17:29.880] What about you?
[00:17:29.880 --> 00:17:32.920] What do you think about pivoting versus evolving?
[00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:37.240] Yeah, I think I agree with the 180 comment.
[00:17:37.240 --> 00:17:39.560] I was thinking about this this morning as I was driving to work.
[00:17:39.560 --> 00:17:41.960] Like, what is the difference between an evolution and a pivot?
[00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:48.800] Because this is small, and I think we are using it incorrectly often when we are talking about pivoting.
[00:17:49.120 --> 00:17:56.240] And I thought about how, you know, there's the elevator pitch of, you know, I am so-and-so, and I do this for these people.
[00:17:56.560 --> 00:18:15.040] And I think a pivot happens when your what it is that you do drastically changes, or who you do it for drastically changes, or even more so if it's both of those things, because then basically it's just a whole new business.
[00:18:15.040 --> 00:18:27.520] And so I think that there's like a, I think there's a scale of like maybe instead of evolving and pivoting being two incredibly different things, I actually just think they're two ends of a spectrum, right?
[00:18:27.520 --> 00:18:31.040] And in the middle, there's this like I'm changing one or the other.
[00:18:31.040 --> 00:18:37.760] And then on the other, on the pivoting side, is I'm changing like all the way on the pivoting side is I'm changing both.
[00:18:37.760 --> 00:18:50.240] And so that's how I think about it: if you are doing something completely different, but for the same people or doing the same thing, but for completely different people, then you have entered the realm of pivoting.
[00:18:50.560 --> 00:19:08.240] Yeah, it's interesting because even in my own business, Braid Creative has evolved tremendously in that we went from offering branding for creative entrepreneurs to also offering branding for organizations and institutions and nonprofits and larger businesses.
[00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:18.880] And it was a really interesting challenge because we're still evolving our customer base, but we didn't really necessarily change or pivot our product or offering.
[00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:23.680] Now, we've evolved how we apply the braid method to those different clients.
[00:19:23.680 --> 00:19:27.600] Like, it looks a little bit different for those client bases.
[00:19:27.600 --> 00:19:33.160] But the challenge that I've had with evolving there is that people thought it was a pivot whenever it wasn't.
[00:19:33.400 --> 00:19:37.480] It was an evolution because we're still serving creative entrepreneurs.
[00:19:37.480 --> 00:19:44.280] We still do one-on-one branding for creative entrepreneurs or small business owners, and we love doing that.
[00:19:44.280 --> 00:19:47.480] And we will probably never really stop doing that.
[00:19:48.200 --> 00:20:04.360] So, there can be a positioning problem whenever you start to expand, like whenever your evolution involves expansion, because I think that people are so used to seeing other creatives pivot and like kind of remove their flag from one hill and put it in another hill.
[00:20:04.360 --> 00:20:07.640] And I think that that's really impressive, and that's another thing.
[00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:18.040] But evolving is more like if you're reading a book, evolving is the next chapter in that book, or maybe the next series in that series of books, right?
[00:20:18.040 --> 00:20:23.800] Whereas a pivot is the same author, but maybe a whole new book about a whole new subject.
[00:20:23.800 --> 00:20:25.240] None of the characters are the same.
[00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:30.280] So, that's probably the metaphor I think of the most whenever I think of a pivot versus an evolution.
[00:20:30.600 --> 00:20:32.040] Yeah, I love that.
[00:20:32.040 --> 00:20:47.240] Well, and I think, you know, going from indie chopography, working with creatives, with websites, and all of these things, and going into being boss, where still same people, but completely different product, that was a pivot, right?
[00:20:47.240 --> 00:20:49.960] That was a very big change that I made.
[00:20:49.960 --> 00:20:54.920] And even going from being boss into Almanac, even larger pivot.
[00:20:54.920 --> 00:21:04.040] And there's been evolutions within the context of all three of those businesses along the way, including the ending of Indy several years ago.
[00:21:04.040 --> 00:21:06.680] But those big shifts are pivots.
[00:21:06.680 --> 00:21:10.680] And so, oftentimes, I think when people are saying, I'm pivoting, no, you're not.
[00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:12.360] You're evolving.
[00:21:12.360 --> 00:21:21.360] And I think if you were to shift the language around it, you'd probably have way less fraudy feelings about it, which is another thing I think we'll be talking about later.
[00:21:21.360 --> 00:21:33.120] Because we think that we think that, you know, pivoting is a sign of like not being able to settle into what we're doing or whatever, whatever stories we're telling ourselves as we are evolving along the way.
[00:21:33.120 --> 00:21:47.040] Whereas if you position it as evolving, it's easier to just accept the natural changes that come as you grow as a professional and as your business grows with time.
[00:21:48.320 --> 00:21:51.520] I work with quite a few life coaches and therapists.
[00:21:51.520 --> 00:21:55.120] That's one of the small businesses that hire us for one-on-one branding.
[00:21:55.120 --> 00:21:58.720] And sometimes they'll come back to us a few years later and say, Okay, I'm pivoting.
[00:21:58.720 --> 00:22:02.240] I'm going from life coaching to death coaching.
[00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:04.400] I'm now going to be a death doula.
[00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:10.640] And I even consider that actually more of an evolution than a total pivot.
[00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:13.840] And I think that people just get really freaked out.
[00:22:13.840 --> 00:22:20.640] And I don't know where the blockage is or where they get stuck on thinking that it's a total drastic change.
[00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:28.560] And really, more than anything, what they need is a sense of comfort and permission whenever it comes to evolving and growing into what they want to be.
[00:22:28.560 --> 00:22:40.160] So the one thing I want any of you to remember as you're evolving or even pivoting and totally starting from scratch with something new is to remember that you are the common denominator.
[00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:45.440] You have, you know, changed, of course, along your journey, but you are still you.
[00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:56.960] And you, if you trust that, if you have confidence in you and who you are as a business owner, that will shine through no matter what kind of evolution or pivot you make.
[00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:01.000] And so, to your point, Emily, you had indie shopography.
[00:23:01.240 --> 00:23:07.480] I remember at one point, maybe you were even thinking about rebranding it as Indie Boom, which would have been a really cool evolution.
[00:23:07.480 --> 00:23:17.720] That's like an example of where you could have evolved the brand to go away from just being for online shops to being for anyone who's doing business online, right?
[00:23:17.720 --> 00:23:18.760] Like this indie boom.
[00:23:18.760 --> 00:23:24.600] And it's kind of like rebranding around your packaged offering, which I think is another great evolution.
[00:23:25.400 --> 00:23:34.680] But really, even then, with being boss and almanac, you've never just said, Hey, everything I've done in the past has nothing to do with this.
[00:23:34.840 --> 00:23:40.440] You've always brought who you are and what you've learned along the way into what's next.
[00:23:40.440 --> 00:23:53.080] So make sure that whenever it comes to the next path, you know, the next path that you're taking or getting further down the road that you're already on, the scenery might change, but you are still the person taking that journey.
[00:23:53.080 --> 00:23:57.480] And you've got all of that experience and knowledge that you've built up along the way.
[00:23:57.480 --> 00:24:02.840] And that will propel you, it will fuel you, it will make the work that you do so much faster.
[00:24:02.840 --> 00:24:09.560] I know that anytime I'm evolving in a way that feels like I'm going back, I'm like, okay, let's go back to blank.
[00:24:09.560 --> 00:24:12.440] And I always have to shift my language and mindset around that.
[00:24:12.440 --> 00:24:14.120] I'm not going back.
[00:24:14.440 --> 00:24:15.560] I'm actually moving forward.
[00:24:15.560 --> 00:24:21.640] So, even, for example, coming back on the podcasts for a little bit, I'm like, I kind of want to come back to being boss.
[00:24:21.960 --> 00:24:23.400] It's not really coming back.
[00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:27.880] It's kind of joining you back on the journey of where you've been and moving forward.
[00:24:27.880 --> 00:24:30.200] And I've been on a journey too for the past couple of years.
[00:24:30.200 --> 00:24:36.440] So it's just interesting, really, how mindset can play such a big part whenever it comes to evolving.
[00:24:36.440 --> 00:24:37.720] Yeah, for sure.
[00:24:37.720 --> 00:24:40.680] I think, I think all of those points are incredibly valid.
[00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:54.560] And I do think, you know, that's one of the reasons why here on Being Boss, as we are interviewing other people, we're always asking them to share their journey first because everyone's paths are incredibly windy, right?
[00:24:54.560 --> 00:24:58.240] We all do crazy things along the way to get where we are.
[00:24:58.320 --> 00:25:07.840] We're collecting all these tools to put in our tool belt so that whenever we show up to do the thing, you know, and actually, I don't even believe that there is like the thing we're meant to do in our lives, you know, that we're prepared for it.
[00:25:07.840 --> 00:25:10.720] We're just taking all these little steps along the way.
[00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:12.880] So love all of that.
[00:25:12.880 --> 00:25:22.480] I want to talk then about rebranding and refreshing because I think we just did some redefining of both pivoting and evolving.
[00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:26.880] And I think we're probably going to be doing the same with rebranding and refreshing, aren't we?
[00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:27.920] I think so.
[00:25:27.920 --> 00:25:29.200] I think so.
[00:25:29.200 --> 00:25:36.960] So the difference between a rebrand and a refresh, a rebrand is where you might be changing your name.
[00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:39.600] You might be shifting.
[00:25:39.600 --> 00:25:46.400] I mean, I really do think it's a name change, which comes with, I mean, that seems kind of surfacy, right?
[00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:49.920] Just changing your name, but usually there's a big catalyst behind that.
[00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:51.200] Well, like the pivot.
[00:25:51.200 --> 00:25:51.600] Yeah.
[00:25:51.600 --> 00:25:54.800] It's like, it's when an actual pivot is happening.
[00:25:54.800 --> 00:25:55.280] Right.
[00:25:55.280 --> 00:26:08.000] And so I find that sometimes people want to rebrand whenever they're going from having a personality-driven business to a business that they want to grow and evolve beyond just themselves and their face, right?
[00:26:09.120 --> 00:26:17.040] And it might happen in the opposite way where someone has had a business name and they're ready to put their own personal brand more in the forefront.
[00:26:17.040 --> 00:26:24.720] They're ready to begin speaking or publishing or podcasting or YouTubing or writing a book, whatever that might look like for them.
[00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:29.760] They want to bring themselves front and center and go from doing to teaching.
[00:26:30.760 --> 00:26:34.840] So both of these might be reasons for a rebrand.
[00:26:34.840 --> 00:26:37.240] And sometimes they can kind of work together.
[00:26:37.240 --> 00:26:45.160] And that can even be an evolution where there's this kind of transition that happens of going from a business to a personal brand.
[00:26:45.320 --> 00:26:53.080] So for example, with you, Emily, in indie shopography, it could have, and you, let's say, you were wanting to bring about your personal brand a little bit more.
[00:26:53.080 --> 00:26:58.040] Well, you decided to start being boss, which we almost named the Emily and Kathleen show.
[00:26:58.680 --> 00:27:04.120] But it could have been indie shopography with Emily Thompson, right?
[00:27:04.120 --> 00:27:15.560] And you start to then reverse the hierarchy of that tagline with Emily Thompson to now your brand is Emily Thompson, founder of Indie Shopography, right?
[00:27:15.560 --> 00:27:20.120] So you can kind of almost think about it as like shifting hierarchies in your business.
[00:27:20.120 --> 00:27:29.320] So anyway, that's one example of a rebrand where a refresh might just be updating your logo, typography, colors, marks.
[00:27:29.320 --> 00:27:33.800] We've seen examples of this happen with lots of corporations over the years.
[00:27:33.800 --> 00:27:44.600] Like whenever there's just these subtle tweaks and refinements, because maybe you designed your logo in 2008 and now you look at it and you're like, oh, wow, that was real trendy in 2008.
[00:27:44.600 --> 00:27:55.240] You know, like if you have an arch in your logo right now, you know, and your logo was created in 2018, like you might be ready for a refresh.
[00:27:55.240 --> 00:27:58.520] And listen, I've designed some archie logos and I didn't know.
[00:27:58.520 --> 00:28:04.600] Like sometimes you don't know, or sometimes you want to be trendy and relevant and then evolve with the new trends.
[00:28:04.600 --> 00:28:06.040] And that's okay too.
[00:28:06.360 --> 00:28:09.400] It really is thinking about though, what doesn't change.
[00:28:09.400 --> 00:28:24.240] So, really keeping from a graphic design perspective, because that's my forte, is really thinking about your color palette, your typography, your imagery, what stays the same, and what's changing and evolving as you go.
[00:28:24.800 --> 00:28:30.880] You know, how I'm obsessed about how our cells turn over every seven years, like and we're a whole new person.
[00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:33.440] I think I even wrote about this in our book.
[00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:44.720] I'm obsessed with this idea that our whole bodies change over every seven years, but then there's still this aspect of us who is the same our whole lifetime.
[00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:49.280] So, I kind of think about a refresh that way, where it's like, what are you shedding?
[00:28:49.280 --> 00:28:50.320] What are you bringing in?
[00:28:50.320 --> 00:29:03.120] And seven years from now, those slow evolutions from a visual external standpoint might have a totally different brand, but you've eased your customers and yourself along the way.
[00:29:03.120 --> 00:29:03.680] Yeah.
[00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:04.160] Yes.
[00:29:04.160 --> 00:29:16.400] And I love the sort of again, whenever you adopt the real words for what it is that you're doing, you put yourself in a better place to embrace the ease of a process.
[00:29:16.400 --> 00:29:26.960] I think if you think about, oh, I have to rebrand, like who staying awake with anxiety all night, thinking about all the things that you need to do to make your business work in its, you know, new evolved iteration.
[00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:34.720] Whereas if you're like, okay, I just need to refresh, ah, the ease with which you can move forward with this, you know, new direction that you've taken for yourself.
[00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:45.600] I think that it helps you, I don't know, embrace the changes and not let things hold you back from moving into what it is that you're doing next.
[00:29:45.600 --> 00:29:57.040] And also, and also at the same time, bring the correct weight to what a rebrand should be for your business if and when you choose that path as well.
[00:29:57.040 --> 00:30:04.200] Yes, I really want to hone in on this a little bit because a refresh is not going to take a lot of resources.
[00:30:04.520 --> 00:30:08.280] It's not going to take a whole lot of time, energy, and money, right?
[00:30:08.280 --> 00:30:16.680] A rebrand is like starting from scratch, if not more so, because now you know what you didn't know the first time you started the business, right?
[00:30:16.680 --> 00:30:19.400] So I would not go into a rebrand lightly.
[00:30:19.400 --> 00:30:22.760] There is something really liberating about saying, you know what?
[00:30:22.760 --> 00:30:25.640] I'm just going to shut it all down and start fresh.
[00:30:25.640 --> 00:30:34.680] Like in some ways, that might give you more ability and permission to do what it is that you really want to do in a new way that makes sense for you.
[00:30:34.680 --> 00:30:38.040] And it's probably also based on like your personality type, right?
[00:30:38.040 --> 00:30:40.360] And what feels better to you.
[00:30:40.360 --> 00:30:44.600] But so you could do a refresh with the trajectory of kind of a rebrand.
[00:30:44.600 --> 00:30:51.480] So it's kind of a really slow rebrand, like easing into it, or you can just rip the bandaid off and rebrand if that's your jam.
[00:30:51.480 --> 00:31:07.640] The thing is, and the thing I want to caution anyone against, and this even includes investing in a brand before you've even started doing your business, before you've even figured it out, is that it can be a very costly way to figure out that you don't want to be known for something, right?
[00:31:07.640 --> 00:31:28.200] So just be very careful whenever it comes to branding or rebranding, whenever you don't have enough experience under your belt, because you might find a year from now that you hate being a life coach and you've built this whole brand and identity around being a life coach, you know, or a specific kind of life coach or offering a certain thing.
[00:31:28.200 --> 00:31:29.640] So just be careful there.
[00:31:29.640 --> 00:31:30.760] I would test the waters.
[00:31:30.760 --> 00:31:33.160] And that's the nice thing about a brand evolution.
[00:31:33.160 --> 00:31:39.880] And a great way to employ a brand evolution and a business evolution is in your content and in the customers that you serve.
[00:31:39.880 --> 00:31:59.120] So it can be a very, if you want to do it in an intentional way, it could be saying, Hey, I would love to be doing more of this kind of work for this kind of person, even if that's not reflected in your portfolio yet, by putting it out there, either in a podcast or a blog post or on social media or however you're getting yourself out there.
[00:31:59.120 --> 00:31:59.840] Do that.
[00:31:59.840 --> 00:32:01.440] Get a little bit of experience under your belt.
[00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:02.160] See what you like.
[00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:03.680] See what you don't like.
[00:32:03.680 --> 00:32:14.560] One thing that I always like to ask my clients whenever they come to me, whether it's for a rebrand or refresh, is like, okay, if you could only do one thing, what is it that you would want to do all day, every day?
[00:32:14.560 --> 00:32:18.160] And if you could stop doing one thing, what would that be?
[00:32:18.160 --> 00:32:23.520] Like, that's a great way to think about your evolution in your business.
[00:32:23.520 --> 00:32:30.320] But then, also, a third question I've been asking a lot lately is: what's something new that you want to try?
[00:32:30.320 --> 00:32:33.680] And there is a lot in that question, too.
[00:32:33.680 --> 00:32:39.200] And that can, that's usually the thing that's a little bit more scary, that's going to take a little bit more momentum.
[00:32:39.200 --> 00:32:50.080] And whether that momentum requires a coach or a community, like the being boss community, to like kind of get that support under you or that momentum or that encouragement.
[00:32:50.080 --> 00:32:56.640] You know, that's the thing that also might lead you to a more intentional evolution that's not just kind of falling in your lap.
[00:32:56.640 --> 00:32:57.040] Yeah.
[00:32:57.040 --> 00:32:58.960] Oh, I love all of that.
[00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:09.680] And I hope that's inspiring folks to think about what's next for your business, one way or the other, because I think that, or I know that, especially doing business online, but also, also all business.
[00:33:09.680 --> 00:33:18.000] More, I also say this as someone who runs a rock shop, which is like rocks were one of the first things being traded by humankind ever, right?
[00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:21.280] Like, this is like the world's oldest business right here, rocks.
[00:33:21.280 --> 00:33:28.240] And well, aside from, you know, selling your body like the boss you are, Emily.
[00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:28.640] Right.
[00:33:28.640 --> 00:33:31.000] Or like food or water, sure.
[00:33:31.320 --> 00:33:32.440] Some more necessities.
[00:33:29.840 --> 00:33:33.480] And then there's rocks.
[00:33:34.040 --> 00:33:41.880] So even as someone who is in one of the world's oldest industries, business is still changing consistently.
[00:33:41.880 --> 00:33:53.480] And I think that if you are, you know, too rigid, too married to a brand that you spent a lot of money on that you're afraid to adjust because you made an investment or whatever it may be.
[00:33:53.800 --> 00:34:00.200] The more rigid you are, the more you're closing yourself up to the opportunities ahead of you as you're evolving.
[00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:14.360] And what I love about especially that, like, that question of what do you want to be doing or what do you want to do next or what do you want to explore or whatever is that you're opening up to the experience of what is next for you and or your business and or your customers or whatever it may be.
[00:34:14.360 --> 00:34:17.640] And I think that's, that's a really powerful thing.
[00:34:17.640 --> 00:34:30.440] But I also know that there's a group of creatives in particular who love the pivot and the evolution always pivoting and evolving.
[00:34:30.440 --> 00:34:41.320] And it's tricky because you might not ever be gaining traction if you're constantly pivoting and evolving and you wonder why you're just kind of spinning in your own wheel.
[00:34:41.320 --> 00:34:45.240] It's because you haven't given it a chance to like really hook in.
[00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:47.320] I think, I think there's lots of paths.
[00:34:47.320 --> 00:34:59.640] I think if you are here to be a freelancer to just make money in whatever way you can using the skills that you have, the constant evolution or pivot or whatever, like that is for you for sure.
[00:34:59.640 --> 00:35:02.680] Like you have chosen that path, and I love that for you.
[00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:12.440] If you are here to grow a business, something that you expect to have longevity, then you need to commit to a thing for a while.
[00:35:12.440 --> 00:35:16.960] Small evolutions along the way, for sure, but like you need to let the thing get traction.
[00:35:17.040 --> 00:35:23.040] And even as we shared, you know, my path of three businesses, this is over the course of 12 years, right?
[00:35:23.040 --> 00:35:27.600] This is not like I started one and two years later, I started another one, and two years later, I started another one.
[00:35:27.600 --> 00:35:30.400] And there's been overlaps of all of them as well.
[00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:37.360] So, over the course of 12, probably even more than that now, if I'm being quite honest, I haven't done the math in a long time.
[00:35:37.360 --> 00:35:39.040] I just got to 12 and stopped.
[00:35:39.040 --> 00:35:41.360] You know, like you turn 32 and you stop aging.
[00:35:41.360 --> 00:35:42.160] I think that's what I did.
[00:35:42.160 --> 00:35:47.200] And I feel like you're not even counting the jewelry business in this, in this line.
[00:35:47.360 --> 00:35:48.000] Or the tanning sales.
[00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:49.520] You guys throw the tanning salon in there as well.
[00:35:51.600 --> 00:35:55.440] Then that's a hardy like 20 years, just about, I think.
[00:35:55.920 --> 00:36:01.600] So, you know, these are things where you get in, you like dig into the thing and you build the thing.
[00:36:01.600 --> 00:36:04.720] You like you're making money, you're profitable, whatever.
[00:36:04.720 --> 00:36:09.520] And then things happen along the way that give you the ability to shift and change, right?
[00:36:09.520 --> 00:36:12.640] Even think of being boss, like the business with no business model, right?
[00:36:12.640 --> 00:36:26.320] Where like we have just been here to evolve along the way is still a place where, like, if you look at our branding, it has been visually, we've only ever truly had two.
[00:36:26.320 --> 00:36:29.920] There have been like small evolutions, especially in the second one.
[00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:34.240] And the like positioning has always been the exact same.
[00:36:34.240 --> 00:36:34.800] Yeah.
[00:36:35.120 --> 00:36:36.400] The exact same.
[00:36:36.400 --> 00:36:44.080] So you can like you can dig into something and evolve within it, but still have your container be the exact same.
[00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:45.280] So I don't know.
[00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:48.720] I just wanted to throw that out there of like what these sort of options look like.
[00:36:48.720 --> 00:37:06.680] Cause we are talking about all of these things and like you should be doing them all the time and you should be, but you can also do them in a way that allows you to really grow and mature something to get out of it what you most need before you make a big pivot into something else.
[00:37:08.280 --> 00:37:19.000] Settling yourself into the flow of your business from navigating a whole year of ebbs and flows to embracing the energy of each and every day, you're bound to have some ups and downs along the way.
[00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:24.440] For me, this journey of entrepreneurship is made better when my space keeps me focused and inspired.
[00:37:24.440 --> 00:37:33.720] As an example, my favorite way to mark the beginning and ending of the workday is to light a candle when I sit down at my desk and then blow it out when I'm done for the day.
[00:37:33.720 --> 00:37:39.240] It's a little ritual that creates boundaries and a vibe that keeps me focused and feeling cozy.
[00:37:39.240 --> 00:37:42.040] And the ritual candle that we make at Almanac Supply Co.
[00:37:42.040 --> 00:37:43.800] is my favorite for this.
[00:37:43.800 --> 00:37:58.040] In fact, my whole shop is filled with items that I've curated to create the vibe for feeling connected, in flow, and inspired with candles, crystals, and other goodies to help you create a dreamy workspace, bedside table, or bookshelf.
[00:37:58.040 --> 00:38:09.480] Come gather inspiration and check out my favorite in-stock items at almanacsupplyco.com slash beingboss and get 15% off with code beingboss at checkout.
[00:38:09.480 --> 00:38:13.560] That's almanacsupplycode.com slash beingboss.
[00:38:18.040 --> 00:38:21.560] I want to talk a little bit about behind the scenes evolutions.
[00:38:21.560 --> 00:38:30.360] It's not as sexy, but I feel like it's something that you're especially an expert at, Emily, which is like evolving systems and processes.
[00:38:30.360 --> 00:38:39.240] So, as you continue to grow as a business or even see what's working and what's not working, you're going to want to evolve how you work.
[00:38:39.240 --> 00:38:58.240] So, things like your invoicing, your project management, and your project flow, how you're managing your money, what the customer journey looks like, and their user experience from the first time they email you or walk into your shop to the final deliverables that they have purchased or that you are finally providing for them.
[00:38:58.240 --> 00:39:06.560] There's also behind-the-scenes evolutions like growing your team or shrinking your team or moving into an online space.
[00:39:06.560 --> 00:39:12.160] Like, there are so many different kinds of behind-the-scene evolutions that nobody sees that are integral.
[00:39:12.480 --> 00:39:16.960] I have the hardest time with that word that are foundational to your business.
[00:39:16.960 --> 00:39:18.320] Okay, good.
[00:39:20.560 --> 00:39:21.280] Good job.
[00:39:21.280 --> 00:39:22.320] You did it.
[00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:23.760] Yeah, you're totally right.
[00:39:23.760 --> 00:39:32.320] There is like a there's an outward-facing sort of you know, branding, business positioning, you know, evolution or pivot.
[00:39:32.320 --> 00:39:41.040] And I think that usually happens more, more intentional, more intentionally, and probably visibly a little less often.
[00:39:41.040 --> 00:39:49.520] Whereas internal evolutions, I mean, I'm tweaking and making more effective constantly, right?
[00:39:49.520 --> 00:39:58.960] Keeping things in tip-top shape and running as smoothly and as efficiently as possible daily, more or less.
[00:39:59.360 --> 00:40:03.840] Maybe not daily, that feels a little dramatic, but consistently for sure.
[00:40:04.160 --> 00:40:10.080] So, absolutely, it's not just an external phenomenon in business, it's also very much so internal.
[00:40:10.080 --> 00:40:10.720] All right.
[00:40:10.720 --> 00:40:13.760] So, what about how to know whenever it's time to evolve?
[00:40:13.760 --> 00:40:20.120] If you haven't had this kind of organic evolvement happening in your business and in your brand.
[00:40:20.360 --> 00:40:23.280] How do you know whenever it's time to evolve?
[00:40:23.280 --> 00:40:25.360] Because things aren't feeling quite right.
[00:40:25.360 --> 00:40:31.400] You know, like someone might be listening to this and being like, I think I need to evolve, but it's just not happening.
[00:40:31.640 --> 00:40:36.520] What does that look like for a small business owner or a creative entrepreneur?
[00:40:36.520 --> 00:40:38.680] Yeah, I mean, I think you kind of hit it on the head.
[00:40:38.680 --> 00:40:39.800] I think you know.
[00:40:39.800 --> 00:40:41.800] I think you just know, like you feel it.
[00:40:41.800 --> 00:40:42.680] Something fills off.
[00:40:42.680 --> 00:40:45.480] But I also think like look at your numbers.
[00:40:45.800 --> 00:40:48.680] Or we even have a worksheet for this, right?
[00:40:48.920 --> 00:40:51.960] It's a worksheet called What's Working, Kind of Working, Not Working.
[00:40:52.040 --> 00:41:05.480] We'll include a link to it in the show notes where you can literally sit down and look at all of your offerings, look at all of your, you know, the customers that your business serves, whatever it may be, and decide what's working, what's kind of working, and what's not working.
[00:41:05.480 --> 00:41:15.320] And whenever things start shifting around, when, you know, things that used to work don't work anymore or only kind of working, that's usually a sign that there needs to be some sort of evolution.
[00:41:15.320 --> 00:41:23.000] Maybe the customer that you're serving isn't really the customer you need to be serving anymore.
[00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:28.840] Maybe how it is that you're delivering it isn't how it needs to be delivered anymore, whatever it may be.
[00:41:29.160 --> 00:41:46.920] I think getting in and doing some analysis, backing up feelings with numbers always is incredibly important and really pinpointing the thing that it is time to evolve or delete or if it all just needs to be pivoted into something completely different.
[00:41:47.240 --> 00:42:00.840] I think a good analysis is great for helping you decide if this is just like a sparkly object situation where you just maybe want to do the next thing because you have an itch or if your business actually needs it.
[00:42:01.160 --> 00:42:08.840] And tools like the CEO day kit that Being Boss offers, you know, that's a great way to check in with yourself as you go.
[00:42:08.840 --> 00:42:25.440] And it's really going to facilitate either natural evolutions that you just didn't take the time to really get on paper, or it's going to bring about intentional evolutions that you know you need to make, but you hadn't quite pinpointed or identified.
[00:42:25.440 --> 00:42:34.000] And then I can't help but plug the braid method branding workbook because, again, these are like worksheets that you can print off and you can print off multiple of them.
[00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:38.400] So let's say you have a business idea and you want to do a total pivot.
[00:42:38.400 --> 00:42:51.200] You could take that whole idea through kind of a branding process or through the CEO day kit and see on paper if it works or doesn't work or how different it is from what you're already doing.
[00:42:51.200 --> 00:42:59.200] And that's the thing is that, you know, I've had some people who want to go through the braid method for two different businesses and they're filling out their cards the exact same way.
[00:42:59.200 --> 00:43:01.360] And I'm like, okay, this is one business.
[00:43:01.360 --> 00:43:03.040] This is not two businesses.
[00:43:03.040 --> 00:43:07.200] This is one because you've filled everything out identically.
[00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:27.520] So these are just tools that will really help you really figure out what's intentional, what's organic, where you're at and where you want to go and even where you've been and how all of that can back up how you continue to, you know, take yourself on this trajectory of where you want to go and be the boss of your work and life.
[00:43:27.520 --> 00:43:28.000] Yeah.
[00:43:28.560 --> 00:43:29.200] Love it all.
[00:43:29.200 --> 00:43:31.360] We have lots of tools for you, basically.
[00:43:31.760 --> 00:43:41.920] Okay, next I want to talk about how to do this in the most boss way possible, because I think we've all been in a place where it is time to evolve and or pivot.
[00:43:42.240 --> 00:43:45.200] And a lot can happen along the way.
[00:43:45.200 --> 00:43:56.000] And so I think talking about what it looks like to actually do it and to maintain, you know, brand integrity or business integrity or, you know, keep your cool along the way.
[00:43:56.000 --> 00:43:57.680] We hit on fraudde feelings a minute ago.
[00:43:57.680 --> 00:44:02.600] I think that's something that definitely comes up along the way as you are making these moves in business.
[00:44:02.920 --> 00:44:09.560] Let's talk about what it means to be boss as you make shifts in your business.
[00:44:09.880 --> 00:44:14.280] Well, I think that the idea of having a shift feels really sparkly and exciting.
[00:44:14.280 --> 00:44:16.200] And then the rubber meets the road.
[00:44:16.600 --> 00:44:17.720] Terrifying.
[00:44:18.440 --> 00:44:37.000] Or I want to throw in here because I think if you, I think if you do the exercise, you know, what's working, kind of working, not working, you realize that the core of what you do and that you've done for 10, 15, 20 years, I don't even know, isn't working anymore because something in the market has changed or something in how you deliver has changed or whatever.
[00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:43.800] I think it can also be incredibly terrifying to be at a place where you need to pivot.
[00:44:44.120 --> 00:44:51.000] Well, I think it's almost like the New Year's resolution effect where you're like, okay, something's going to change and I want to change like a boss.
[00:44:51.000 --> 00:44:51.800] What's it going to be?
[00:44:51.800 --> 00:44:57.000] And your New Year's resolution might stick for a week or two and then you kind of fall out of it.
[00:44:57.000 --> 00:44:57.480] Right.
[00:44:57.480 --> 00:45:07.320] And so really going about an evolution and making and reflecting that change across the board, it takes some really unsexy work.
[00:45:07.320 --> 00:45:07.720] Right.
[00:45:07.720 --> 00:45:10.600] And it takes some work that you have to dedicate yourself to.
[00:45:10.600 --> 00:45:17.640] So first and foremost, I would say getting the tools that you need to create that framework of like what's evolved and what hasn't.
[00:45:17.640 --> 00:45:18.360] We covered that.
[00:45:18.360 --> 00:45:26.200] Like the Braid branding workbook is a great place and this EO Day kit and all of the worksheets that you offer Emily are a great place to start, right?
[00:45:26.200 --> 00:45:28.040] So getting it on paper.
[00:45:28.040 --> 00:45:31.880] Second, I would do an audit of what you already have.
[00:45:31.880 --> 00:45:38.840] I would make sure to print off, like on paper, your entire website and your social media.
[00:45:38.840 --> 00:45:41.560] And we have actually a branding checklist on the Braid blog.
[00:45:41.560 --> 00:45:47.280] It's totally free that you can use to kind of audit all the places where your business shows up, right?
[00:45:47.600 --> 00:45:52.800] And what you want to do is take a red pen to it and a highlighter and highlight what's working.
[00:45:52.800 --> 00:45:59.760] Take a red pin to things that, you know, there might be stuff that you've already evolved that is so outdated on your website that you forgot was there.
[00:45:59.760 --> 00:46:02.000] And we are all guilty of this.
[00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:05.200] All of us could benefit from doing this exercise.
[00:46:05.200 --> 00:46:10.560] So really look at where you are and what you're already sharing and showing.
[00:46:10.560 --> 00:46:15.120] And then from there, I would start to prioritize what you update first and foremost.
[00:46:15.120 --> 00:46:16.320] Is it your logo?
[00:46:16.320 --> 00:46:19.200] Is it just simply some of the copy on your website?
[00:46:19.200 --> 00:46:21.200] Is it your Instagram handle?
[00:46:21.200 --> 00:46:23.920] Or is it, you know, even curating your feed?
[00:46:23.920 --> 00:46:27.040] Like, Emily, I noticed the other day that being boss had like five photos up.
[00:46:27.040 --> 00:46:31.680] Like you just like wiped everything out that was no longer relevant, right?
[00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:35.680] And so it really does look like doing a really good audit.
[00:46:35.680 --> 00:46:38.400] And a lot of that looks like slashing.
[00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:43.680] Like I think it's a good audit and a good edit of like removing, removing, removing.
[00:46:43.680 --> 00:46:52.560] Then from there, I think that you can really start to add back in and you can start to add back in new messaging and positioning around what you want to be known for.
[00:46:52.560 --> 00:46:57.600] You can update your portfolio to share more of the work you want to attract more of.
[00:46:59.200 --> 00:47:01.440] Yeah, that's that's how I would go about it.
[00:47:01.440 --> 00:47:04.240] And you have to schedule this stuff into your calendar.
[00:47:04.240 --> 00:47:05.520] Like this is a job.
[00:47:05.520 --> 00:47:11.920] You need to workflow it like an actual project, like you would for a client, but for yourself.
[00:47:11.920 --> 00:47:17.920] Because if you don't do that, it's just not going to happen, speaking from experience.
[00:47:17.920 --> 00:47:18.800] Yeah, for sure.
[00:47:18.800 --> 00:47:25.040] It is like it is the project you're tackling this quarter or next quarter or whatever it may be and should be treated as such.
[00:47:25.040 --> 00:47:43.640] I also want to throw in something, whether you're on the like sparkly excited camp or the completely terrified camp, one of the things to keep in mind as you are auditing and editing, I love that, is that a rebrand or a refresh or even a pivot should be taking you further into your values and what it is that you're great at.
[00:47:43.640 --> 00:48:10.360] And I think if you can keep that in mind, it gives some like courage and strength to the tasks that you have ahead and helps you really narrow in on what it is that you need to be evolving or pivoting into, as opposed to following any shiny objects along the way of like really getting in there and making this huge workload, this large workload, really worth it for where it is that you want to be.
[00:48:10.360 --> 00:48:34.280] One of the things that I really want to point out here too, though, because I've seen this happen so many times, especially for people who are like always evolving a lot and always pivoting a lot, or even people who are just doing the one big one, is that you should not let the sparkliness and excitement of a rebrand or a refresh or a launch or a pivot or any of those things distract you from what matters.
[00:48:34.280 --> 00:48:42.200] And that is your customers, your commitments, and whatever deliverables you are responsible for.
[00:48:42.200 --> 00:48:54.360] I find a lot of people getting into this like huge project of rebranding and they piss off all their customers along the way because they're working on the thing as opposed to like doing what it is that they're supposed to be doing for their people.
[00:48:55.320 --> 00:49:10.120] Or they completely lose sight of those things and aren't properly communicating or whatever it may be, and are focusing too much on the thing and less so about the reputation that they're still going to carry into the next thing that they're doing.
[00:49:11.080 --> 00:49:13.560] This could be a whole other episode.
[00:49:13.560 --> 00:49:21.120] Actually, in fact, maybe we should do a whole other episode on how to roll out a rebrand because I think that's a big fear that people have, what you just mentioned.
[00:49:21.280 --> 00:49:25.600] And I bet that you're poking at a lot of people's fear of doing that.
[00:49:26.720 --> 00:49:43.680] I will say that some of my more, you know, like mature clients who have their business and they are still delivering, one of their biggest fears is alienating or making excluding a customer base that they've built up by making a necessary evolution.
[00:49:44.240 --> 00:49:48.800] So, one of my clients that I can think of is the podcast Pantsuit Politics.
[00:49:48.800 --> 00:49:56.960] They've gone through now two brand processes with me, and they started as kind of being Sarah from the left and Beth from the right, right?
[00:49:56.960 --> 00:50:00.400] So, sharing this like liberal and conservative point of view.
[00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:07.920] Well, now they've both evolved over time to both be on kind of the more left side of the aisle.
[00:50:07.920 --> 00:50:10.320] They're both registered Democrats now.
[00:50:10.320 --> 00:50:18.800] Anyway, all this to say, though, they had built such a reputation and all this brand equity in their positioning of being from opposite sides of the aisle.
[00:50:18.800 --> 00:50:22.160] And they were so afraid because they love their audience base.
[00:50:22.160 --> 00:50:26.960] They even love their, like, I say they even love, this is where my biases are coming in.
[00:50:26.960 --> 00:50:28.960] They love their conservative listeners.
[00:50:28.960 --> 00:50:35.440] You know, they love, they really have built a really cool, interesting, strong community, and they were really scared of alienating them.
[00:50:35.440 --> 00:50:41.440] I think the same thing happened whenever being boss shifted from being the two of us to then just being you.
[00:50:41.440 --> 00:50:43.440] Like, what does that mean for the brand?
[00:50:43.440 --> 00:50:46.640] And is this going to scare people or upset them?
[00:50:46.640 --> 00:50:49.040] And yeah, it did upset a couple of people.
[00:50:49.040 --> 00:51:01.880] And I think that the biggest challenge that happens with your customers is that they feel that their experience was invalidated whenever you shift your brand because they think that you're saying something was wrong before.
[00:50:59.840 --> 00:51:06.840] And so you're cutting it out and it makes them feel like how they invested in you was wrong.
[00:51:07.160 --> 00:51:10.600] So you really do want to bring your customer in along the way.
[00:51:10.600 --> 00:51:13.960] You want to thank them for being a part of this evolution.
[00:51:13.960 --> 00:51:18.920] Think about how you can roll them into this evolution, even if they're not your dream customer anymore.
[00:51:18.920 --> 00:51:21.720] They help to get you where you are now.
[00:51:21.720 --> 00:51:23.560] And they are a part of your story.
[00:51:23.560 --> 00:51:28.920] And making them feel a part of that story is truly essential to growing ahead.
[00:51:29.320 --> 00:51:43.400] So, you know, that's just, again, this could be a whole other episode on how to roll out a relaunch or a refresh or a rebrand because you can do it in a few different ways that will put everyone at ease, yourself and your customer.
[00:51:43.400 --> 00:51:43.720] Yeah.
[00:51:43.720 --> 00:52:05.000] And I think you really just hit on like one of the biggest things, harking back to something we mentioned earlier in this episode, this idea of the fraudde feelings that come from these pivots of like wondering if people will get it, if they'll trust you in your new direction, if they will feel invalidated whenever you make a change or whatever it may be, if they feel like they have been, you know, defrauded along the way.
[00:52:05.000 --> 00:52:06.440] And that's dramatic.
[00:52:06.440 --> 00:52:09.800] In most cases, no, that's not really how that works.
[00:52:09.800 --> 00:52:12.040] It just is the fraudde feelings that are showing up.
[00:52:12.040 --> 00:52:21.400] But if you can keep the conversations open and be honest and vulnerable with the people, especially, and I'm not talking necessarily blasting on social media.
[00:52:21.400 --> 00:52:24.920] I'm talking like personal emails to your nearest and dearest clients, right?
[00:52:24.920 --> 00:52:35.960] Those sorts of folks, then they will help ease the fraudde feelings that can naturally come from deciding, hey, I'm tired of doing things this way, or I'm done doing things this way.
[00:52:35.960 --> 00:52:44.760] I need to do things in a new way, which is a scary step, but they'll be much more willing to back you along the way if you're open about the process.
[00:52:45.120 --> 00:52:51.760] The only thing I can think of how you should not do this is: do you remember?
[00:52:51.760 --> 00:52:54.960] I should probably give us a quick Google, but I don't actually want to name names.
[00:52:55.200 --> 00:52:57.040] Everyone can do their own Googling.
[00:52:57.040 --> 00:53:12.560] A couple of years ago, a really popular Oracle card designer and like writer came out very dramatically one day as a born-again Christian and completely put down every bit of work that she had ever done.
[00:53:12.560 --> 00:53:15.840] And anyone who was still using them was sinning.
[00:53:15.840 --> 00:53:19.600] And it went real crazy, real fast.
[00:53:19.920 --> 00:53:26.560] That's how you don't want to do it by any means.
[00:53:26.560 --> 00:53:30.640] But in most cases, our pivots are not that dramatic.
[00:53:30.640 --> 00:53:36.400] And people who support you are there to support you no matter what it is that you're doing within recent, obviously.
[00:53:36.400 --> 00:53:37.200] Exactly.
[00:53:37.200 --> 00:53:42.960] I mean, I think that you spoke to the frauddy feelings that come up with even a rebrand or a refresh.
[00:53:42.960 --> 00:53:47.760] And those frauddy feelings show up as being overly concerned about what your customer base is going to think.
[00:53:47.760 --> 00:53:49.920] Nine times out of 10, they're not going to think anything at all.
[00:53:49.920 --> 00:53:51.600] They're not even going to notice.
[00:53:51.600 --> 00:53:56.800] Like one of my, it's not a pet peeve, but it's like, I think it's a little cringy.
[00:53:56.800 --> 00:54:03.120] Sometimes there are people like big announcement tomorrow, you know, and then it's like they've changed their logo.
[00:54:03.440 --> 00:54:05.760] Like nobody cares.
[00:54:06.720 --> 00:54:07.920] I didn't.
[00:54:09.840 --> 00:54:16.160] If you've got a big announcement, it's got to be like after 2020, it's got to be bigger than a logo change, right?
[00:54:16.160 --> 00:54:24.560] So, just knowing, but this should bring you, this should bring you peace of mind and comfort in that you're thinking about yourself more than anybody else's.
[00:54:24.560 --> 00:54:28.960] Like, most people aren't going to be affected or upset or even really notice.
[00:54:28.960 --> 00:54:43.400] So, on both sides of the same coin, whether you're going to maybe upset people or invalidate them with your update or change, or that you think that everyone's going to be super stoked and excited for you, it's definitely somewhere in the middle.
[00:54:43.400 --> 00:54:54.760] You want to invite, again, just invite people along the way and use it as an opportunity to continue to, you know, nurture the community that you've created.
[00:54:55.080 --> 00:54:55.640] Yeah.
[00:54:56.120 --> 00:54:57.000] I love it.
[00:54:57.000 --> 00:54:58.520] Kathleen, this has been a treat.
[00:54:58.520 --> 00:55:05.080] Anything else you want to add about refreshing, rebranding, evolving, pivoting, whatever, whatever?
[00:55:05.400 --> 00:55:06.440] All of the above?
[00:55:06.440 --> 00:55:09.560] I think, I think that about covers it.
[00:55:10.200 --> 00:55:10.680] Yeah.
[00:55:11.000 --> 00:55:11.800] This feels good.
[00:55:11.800 --> 00:55:13.000] I mean, so everyone.
[00:55:13.000 --> 00:55:19.800] We've got like so much more stuff to say about like brand equity and reputation, but maybe we can dive into that stuff in a future episode.
[00:55:19.800 --> 00:55:21.720] Yeah, for sure.
[00:55:22.360 --> 00:55:23.160] Outline it.
[00:55:23.160 --> 00:55:24.600] I'm here for it for sure.
[00:55:24.600 --> 00:55:36.760] But I think that this is a really good job of giving a look at this process and how, on one hand, you don't have to take it as seriously, I think, as a lot of people take it.
[00:55:36.760 --> 00:55:39.320] Like if you're just evolving, that's a natural part of the process.
[00:55:39.320 --> 00:55:49.880] And not all of it has to be this like mind-bendy, huge investment scenario where you are changing your entire life because your business needs to evolve a little bit.
[00:55:49.880 --> 00:56:02.760] And on the other, say, on the other hand, really giving proper weight to the process that is either pivoting or rebranding your business and making sure that you're giving it the purpose that it needs.
[00:56:02.760 --> 00:56:06.680] But in most cases, what we're doing isn't quite that serious.
[00:56:07.320 --> 00:56:10.440] What's making you feel most bossed lately?
[00:56:11.720 --> 00:56:13.560] What's making me feel most bossed?
[00:56:13.560 --> 00:56:15.000] How about this fun little tidbit?
[00:56:16.240 --> 00:56:25.040] A couple episodes ago, I mentioned that I went to the doctor last year and my blood pressure is out of control, like hardcore.
[00:56:25.040 --> 00:56:29.120] How about it ain't no mo?
[00:56:29.120 --> 00:56:30.320] Yay!
[00:56:30.640 --> 00:56:32.400] I know, I know.
[00:56:32.400 --> 00:56:41.600] I've been resting and like, and just like very intentionally just chilling the fuck out, like a whole lot, and like keeping my calendar pretty chill.
[00:56:41.600 --> 00:56:52.720] And knowing that like I have that much agency over my own body, which like I know, but until you like really need to experience and do, it's a whole thing.
[00:56:52.720 --> 00:56:55.920] And that makes me really proud of myself of that.
[00:56:55.920 --> 00:57:02.960] I have done some things that have had real measurable changes in my health over the past couple of months.
[00:57:02.960 --> 00:57:04.720] And it makes me feel very boss.
[00:57:05.040 --> 00:57:08.080] Ooh, we need to do a whole episode on this too.
[00:57:08.080 --> 00:57:14.160] This episode's about brainstorming all the other things we're going to talk about over the next few weeks.
[00:57:14.480 --> 00:57:14.960] Right?
[00:57:14.960 --> 00:57:15.520] What about you?
[00:57:15.520 --> 00:57:17.280] What's making you feel most boss?
[00:57:17.600 --> 00:57:20.640] Okay, so I took a quick trip down to Oklahoma City.
[00:57:20.640 --> 00:57:24.160] I live in Detroit or in the suburbs of Detroit right now.
[00:57:24.160 --> 00:57:29.040] And I took a quick trip to Oklahoma City for a client meeting a couple of weeks ago.
[00:57:29.040 --> 00:57:33.680] And it made me feel so bossed to just be able to fly in for a client meeting.
[00:57:33.680 --> 00:57:37.280] It's been so long since I've done that because of COVID.
[00:57:37.280 --> 00:57:46.560] And then I ended up having the best weekend ever on like a personal level with my sister and my brother and my dad and my parents.
[00:57:46.560 --> 00:57:51.440] And my dad taught me how to really use a slingshot.
[00:57:51.760 --> 00:57:53.040] And I have been doing that.
[00:57:53.200 --> 00:57:55.920] That feels like such a Kathleen skill to have.
[00:57:55.920 --> 00:57:58.000] That is right up your alley.
[00:57:58.320 --> 00:57:59.440] I know.
[00:57:59.440 --> 00:57:59.960] I know.
[00:57:59.960 --> 00:58:03.560] I'm going to send you a reel I made on Instagram since you're not on Instagram anymore.
[00:57:59.680 --> 00:58:06.280] But I am so into shooting a slingshot.
[00:58:07.160 --> 00:58:07.720] Yeah.
[00:58:08.040 --> 00:58:09.240] And it's making me feel boss.
[00:58:09.640 --> 00:58:12.360] So, I mean, the trip made me feel really boss.
[00:58:12.360 --> 00:58:14.200] And then, like, the meeting went really well.
[00:58:14.200 --> 00:58:18.120] It was an annual planning session with a restaurant group that is one of my clients.
[00:58:18.280 --> 00:58:20.280] They own about like six or seven restaurants.
[00:58:20.280 --> 00:58:24.600] And so, really getting into that was, it felt so good.
[00:58:24.600 --> 00:58:25.880] It felt so boss.
[00:58:25.880 --> 00:58:28.200] But then, yeah, the slingshot.
[00:58:28.520 --> 00:58:32.440] I mean, real badass.
[00:58:32.760 --> 00:58:33.880] Of course, it is.
[00:58:33.880 --> 00:58:34.680] I love that.
[00:58:34.680 --> 00:58:35.480] Congrats.
[00:58:36.040 --> 00:58:38.120] A new tool in your tool belt.
[00:58:38.120 --> 00:58:39.400] Literally.
[00:58:40.360 --> 00:58:42.920] Literally in my tool belt.
[00:58:43.560 --> 00:58:44.440] All right, good.
[00:58:44.440 --> 00:58:48.680] And I love that, Kathleen.
[00:58:49.960 --> 00:58:56.680] All right, boss, because you're here, I know you want to be a better creative business owner, which means I've got something for you.
[00:58:56.680 --> 00:59:13.240] Each week, the team at Bean Boss is scouring the news, the best entrepreneurial publications, and updates and releases of the apps and tools that run our businesses and is curating it all into a weekly email that delivers the must-know tips and tactics in the realms of mindset, money, and productivity.
[00:59:13.240 --> 00:59:15.160] This email is called Brood.
[00:59:15.160 --> 00:59:21.240] We brew it up for you each week to give you the insight you need to make decisions and move forward in your creative business.
[00:59:21.240 --> 00:59:25.720] Check it out now and sign up for yourself at beingboss.club/slash brood.
[00:59:25.720 --> 00:59:30.760] That's beanboss.club slash b-r-e-w-e-d.
[00:59:30.760 --> 00:59:33.480] Now, until next time, do the work.
[00:59:33.480 --> 00:59:34.680] Be boss.

Prompt 2: Key Takeaways

Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.

Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...". 

Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive. 

IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}

Prompt 3: Segments

Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.

For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)  
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion

IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
  "segments": [
    {
      "segment_title": "Topic Discussion", 
      "timestamp": "01:15:30",
      "key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
      "segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
    }
  ]
}

Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.

Prompt 4: Media Mentions

Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:

Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)  
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)

DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names

IMPORTANT: 
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
  "media_mentions": [
    {
      "title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
      "category": "Book",
      "author_artist": "N/A",
      "context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
      "context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
      "timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
    }
  ]
}

If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}

Full Transcript

[00:00:00.480 --> 00:00:07.360] Look, payday is awesome, but running payroll, calculating taxes and deductions, staying compliant, that's not easy.
[00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:09.360] Unless, of course, you have Gusto.
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[00:00:25.600 --> 00:00:28.320] We love it so much, we really do use it ourselves.
[00:00:28.320 --> 00:00:34.800] And we have four years, and I personally recommend you give it a try, no matter how small your business is.
[00:00:34.800 --> 00:00:38.960] And to sweeten the deal, just for listening today, you also get three months free.
[00:00:38.960 --> 00:00:41.360] Go to gusto.com slash beingboss.
[00:00:41.360 --> 00:00:45.120] That's gusto.com/slash beingboss.
[00:00:46.720 --> 00:00:54.560] Welcome to Being Boss, a podcast for creatives, business owners, and entrepreneurs who want to take control of their work and live life on their own terms.
[00:00:54.560 --> 00:01:07.920] I'm your host, Emily Thompson, and in this episode, I'm joined by my business bestie, Kathleen Shannon, to talk about evolving and pivoting your business, as well as when to undergo a rebrand, which is honestly, maybe never.
[00:01:08.240 --> 00:01:13.840] You can find all the tools, books, and links we reference on the show notes at www.beingboss.club.
[00:01:13.840 --> 00:01:19.200] And if you like this episode, be sure to subscribe to this show and share us with a friend.
[00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:31.520] Whether you're a full-time boss or dabbling in a side hustle, learning from those who have already been there done that is a powerful way to give you a leg up on your own journey.
[00:01:31.520 --> 00:01:45.840] To help you gather those lessons and inspiration, cue up an episode of the Side Hustle Pro Podcast, hosted by Nikayla Matthews Okome, brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals.
[00:01:45.840 --> 00:02:08.040] Join host Nikayla to learn actionable strategies to start small and get going, wherever and whoever you are, as she interviews inspiring black women entrepreneurs like Ashley Reynolds in episode number 309 and a conversation about how Ashley launched and grew the popular stationery brand Cloth and Paper, a special one for all of you Planner 11 bosses out there.
[00:02:08.040 --> 00:02:12.280] Listen to Side Hustle Pro wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:02:15.160 --> 00:02:25.800] Kathleen Shannon is the co-founder and former co-host of the Being Boss podcast, joining me for the first 240-ish episodes of this show with several one-off episodes since.
[00:02:25.800 --> 00:02:33.480] Kathleen is a partner and creative director at Braid Creative, a branding agency she founded with her sister over 10 years ago.
[00:02:33.480 --> 00:02:42.760] Kathleen has always lived by capturing, shaping, and sharing who she is, whether that's with a blog post, a podcast, or on social media.
[00:02:43.400 --> 00:02:44.360] Welcome back to Kathleen.
[00:02:44.520 --> 00:02:45.480] Welcome back to Kathleen.
[00:02:45.480 --> 00:02:46.600] I don't even know how to start this.
[00:02:46.600 --> 00:02:47.000] Welcome back.
[00:02:47.560 --> 00:02:49.800] I'm back, bosses.
[00:02:52.360 --> 00:02:52.840] Right?
[00:02:52.840 --> 00:03:03.240] So in the last episode, Kathleen joined us for, she made this sort of passing but very pointed comment that she just wanted to come back and do more episodes.
[00:03:03.240 --> 00:03:06.360] And afterwards, I was like, if you're serious, come on.
[00:03:06.360 --> 00:03:09.640] I have all of these recording blocks scheduled out.
[00:03:09.640 --> 00:03:11.960] You can come snag any and all that you want.
[00:03:11.960 --> 00:03:13.160] And you were like, are you sure?
[00:03:13.160 --> 00:03:15.000] And I was like, yeah, if you're sure.
[00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:19.000] And so you came and scheduled yourself for basically all of them.
[00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:19.800] Yep.
[00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:21.880] Except for whenever I'm going to be in Japan.
[00:03:21.880 --> 00:03:26.680] So yes, I'm going to be on all the episodes for the next little bit.
[00:03:27.320 --> 00:03:27.720] Yeah.
[00:03:27.720 --> 00:03:27.960] Yeah.
[00:03:27.960 --> 00:03:28.280] Yeah.
[00:03:28.280 --> 00:03:31.880] So actually the way we're allowed.
[00:03:31.880 --> 00:03:35.800] Some of them, the way we're recording and rescheduling.
[00:03:36.760 --> 00:03:38.360] She's just coming to talk.
[00:03:38.600 --> 00:03:39.720] You'll be here for this one.
[00:03:39.720 --> 00:03:42.200] I think we have a couple of guest episodes in there.
[00:03:42.200 --> 00:03:49.040] And then once we get, I think later into like late spring and summer, there's going to be like a whole fun line of Kathleen episodes.
[00:03:49.200 --> 00:03:55.440] And I'm getting very excited about all the things that we can talk about over the next couple of weeks.
[00:03:55.440 --> 00:04:01.200] We have a really fun one planned for tomorrow that we will talk about tomorrow.
[00:04:01.200 --> 00:04:03.440] And then you all will hear about it later.
[00:04:04.160 --> 00:04:12.480] But I'm excited about some of the fun things that in six, I think like one, which will fill like six in podcast years.
[00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:15.360] But I'm excited to have you back.
[00:04:15.360 --> 00:04:35.680] As I've done this show without you for the past couple of years, I do always incredibly miss the ease with which we're able to dive into conversations and really like, I don't know, have a good time, but what I hope and feel is providing some value in a way that makes recording way much more fun for me.
[00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:38.240] So thanks for coming to make my job easy again.
[00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:39.920] I'm happy to do it.
[00:04:39.920 --> 00:04:51.280] You know, that's actually one of my, as a boss, like one of my boss tenants whenever it comes to working for myself and with my team is to just always make everyone else's job a little bit easier.
[00:04:51.280 --> 00:04:52.880] So I'm here for you.
[00:04:54.080 --> 00:04:54.720] I love that.
[00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:56.720] And that's a good boss tenant, right?
[00:04:57.360 --> 00:04:57.920] Yeah.
[00:04:57.920 --> 00:05:00.720] Thanks for not being a Karen, Kathleen.
[00:05:02.640 --> 00:05:04.880] All right, what are we talking about today?
[00:05:06.160 --> 00:05:06.880] All right.
[00:05:07.200 --> 00:05:11.600] Today we are talking, we're doing a branding episode.
[00:05:12.080 --> 00:05:16.000] Very like Kathleen to send over a couple of topics.
[00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:21.040] And one of the big ones, one of the first ones being a conversation about branding.
[00:05:21.040 --> 00:05:28.080] So you were here a couple of weeks ago to talk about personal branding in particular, sort of an updated conversation about that.
[00:05:28.080 --> 00:05:32.360] But today, I think we're here to talk about evolving your brand and business.
[00:05:32.520 --> 00:05:38.360] And we've done a couple of episodes on this in the past, both you and I, but also me with some other guests.
[00:05:38.360 --> 00:05:49.560] They're always really popular episodes because creatives are really great at pivoting and evolving and wanting a rebrand and all of that.
[00:05:49.560 --> 00:05:59.560] So I'm excited to have a chat with you today about this from your perspective and from the sort of evolved perspective that comes from you being in this space for so long.
[00:05:59.560 --> 00:06:04.840] So branding and business, which is a very Kathleen topic.
[00:06:04.840 --> 00:06:10.280] Well, and it's fun because we've both owned a couple of businesses that have evolved themselves.
[00:06:10.280 --> 00:06:30.120] So speaking from personal experience of how we've evolved over the past decade plus in many different of our ventures and endeavors, and then also having been doing braid now for over 10 years, Braid Creative, which is my branding agency that I co-founded with my sister, we're having a lot of repeat clients.
[00:06:30.120 --> 00:06:37.160] So clients that were with us five, eight, 10 years ago coming back because they're evolving their brand.
[00:06:37.160 --> 00:06:42.520] Sometimes it requires a whole rebrand and going through another braid method process.
[00:06:42.520 --> 00:06:53.640] Sometimes it doesn't require anything at all other than just a little bit of permission and reminding them that not a lot has changed just because a couple of things have changed.
[00:06:53.640 --> 00:07:00.120] Like they can still keep their same messaging and positioning and brand, even though they've evolved and here's how to do it.
[00:07:00.120 --> 00:07:03.720] So, I'm hoping to really cover a few of those things today.
[00:07:04.040 --> 00:07:04.680] Yeah.
[00:07:04.680 --> 00:07:14.120] I also think this is a good conversation because I don't know if you feel this way, but my fingers are still so in online business.
[00:07:14.120 --> 00:07:22.160] I feel like for years, we've said online business changes so quickly, but I feel like it's changing at a faster rate now than it ever has before.
[00:07:22.480 --> 00:07:28.080] And it's kind of a wild thing to really be in as deep as I am in.
[00:07:28.080 --> 00:07:33.840] And I would imagine that everyone else who's in it as deep as I am feels it as well.
[00:07:33.840 --> 00:07:40.160] So, I think like people's businesses are evolving faster and more often than ever before.
[00:07:40.160 --> 00:08:05.600] And I also know that any business owner who's about two to three years in their business gets to a point where a refresh, a rebrand, a pivot, something is happening because you've been a business owner for long enough in whatever space you've chosen, doing the thing that you're doing, that you've learned some things and it's time for you to sort of nail it down to narrow in.
[00:08:05.600 --> 00:08:21.360] And so, not only is it something that we know is happening faster, maybe than ever before, because of the nature of how it is that or where it is that a lot of us are doing business, but it is also a part of absolutely everyone's path at some point in the business journey.
[00:08:21.360 --> 00:08:25.600] So, it really is applicable to literally everybody at some point.
[00:08:25.920 --> 00:08:28.720] You know, I can't help but bring astrology into this a little bit.
[00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:35.280] You know, how we have our Saturn return every 28 years, and how in astrology there's these patterns, there's these cycles.
[00:08:35.280 --> 00:08:38.240] And I think that the same thing happens a little bit in your business.
[00:08:38.240 --> 00:08:50.560] So, whenever you were talking about two to three years in, I do think that there is kind of a two to three year cycle in general, whenever it comes to really hitting these milestones, where you're going to evolve.
[00:08:50.520 --> 00:08:58.960] And, and like you said, it's either because you're recognizing patterns, you're maybe shifting an offering, you might be evolving who you serve.
[00:08:58.960 --> 00:09:12.040] So, whether that's narrowing in or expanding out, maybe there's some behind-the-scenes evolutions that have happened, or maybe you're growing your team, or you've gotten further education or certifications or trainings that you want to start to incorporate.
[00:09:12.040 --> 00:09:20.840] So, I'd love to talk a little bit about maybe the different ways and why you might be evolving your business.
[00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:29.560] So, the first thing that I can think of, and the thing that probably shifts the most in general, is shifting your offering or evolving your offerings.
[00:09:29.560 --> 00:09:40.440] So, even if you have a signature offering, which I've had in my business for the past 10 years, and that has really served me well, there might be different iterations of how you expand or scale that.
[00:09:40.440 --> 00:09:53.560] So, for example, at Braid Creative, we shifted our offering of one-on-one branding, and then we scaled it to then offer a course that anyone could buy and do on their own, right?
[00:09:53.560 --> 00:09:57.000] And that's actually an offering that you convinced me to do, Emily.
[00:09:57.000 --> 00:10:03.320] And that was an evolution of going from this one-on-one space into this online space.
[00:10:03.320 --> 00:10:06.360] You might also be, you know, refining your offering.
[00:10:06.360 --> 00:10:19.160] So, maybe at the beginning, you're like, I will do whatever for whoever, whenever, just give me some money, which I think again is really great for younger entrepreneurs or younger in your journey, entrepreneurs.
[00:10:19.160 --> 00:10:33.160] But you might find that you want to really narrow in on one aspect of what it is that you're offering, you know, and really being known for that thing, kind of like really gripping onto an expertise.
[00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:35.720] There's also other ways that your offerings can shift.
[00:10:35.720 --> 00:10:40.920] Like, Emily, can you think of any other ways that your offerings have shifted over the years or evolved?
[00:10:41.240 --> 00:10:42.120] Oh, for sure.
[00:10:42.120 --> 00:10:54.000] I mean, I think, you know, back in my web design days, there was like a very branding print, like any sort of like business graphic design you needed, I would do.
[00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:58.560] In the beginning, sort of what you're saying, that like whatever you need, just give me the money and I'll do it for you.
[00:10:58.560 --> 00:11:12.800] And then evolving into what became our Indie Boom projects, which were these six to 12-month, like big projects where we were doing quote-unquote all the things, but specific things.
[00:11:12.800 --> 00:11:17.040] Like there were, there became things that I would not do anymore.
[00:11:17.040 --> 00:11:20.400] They needed to fit within the confines of these projects.
[00:11:20.400 --> 00:11:22.720] And so that was definitely a big evolution.
[00:11:22.720 --> 00:11:31.120] Or even I think here at Being Boss, you know, here it's a little bit more of a funny story where, you know, we didn't start being boss with a business model.
[00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:32.480] This was just a fun project.
[00:11:32.480 --> 00:11:43.440] So everything that we've done here has been an evolution from this being just a show that we started for fun and marketing to it being a whole thing.
[00:11:43.440 --> 00:11:47.600] And so it was, you know, not a money maker into a money maker.
[00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:50.400] It was live events and then virtual events.
[00:11:50.400 --> 00:11:52.080] It has been coaching.
[00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:53.440] It has been masterminds.
[00:11:53.440 --> 00:11:54.960] It has been so many things.
[00:11:55.040 --> 00:11:59.120] But it's all been within these confines, right?
[00:11:59.120 --> 00:12:13.120] This sort of structure or these boundaries that we created for creatives, which has made it made what could feel like bigger shifts into what is really just evolving because there have been core elements that have stayed the same along the way.
[00:12:13.120 --> 00:12:20.240] Ooh, that's got me really thinking about kind of organic evolution versus intentional evolution.
[00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:26.240] And maybe that's like one of the big defining factors of an evolving business is that it just kind of happens.
[00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:38.440] Like whenever you start to go with the flow and follow your interests and follow what your customers are asking for, and it feels in alignment with what you want to be doing and what you want to be known for, that's like a really great way.
[00:12:38.440 --> 00:12:52.440] And it's really just then noticing that evolution and really shifting the way that you're putting yourself out there to line up with that evolution to make sure that what you're doing is being reflected on the outside.
[00:12:52.440 --> 00:12:58.600] Well, one thing I wanted to mention was with Indie Boom, I think it's also really cool that you evolved that offering.
[00:12:58.600 --> 00:13:00.920] And it really wasn't much of an evolution.
[00:13:00.920 --> 00:13:02.760] It wasn't like this huge evolution.
[00:13:02.760 --> 00:13:08.200] It was kind of just a small tweak that made a huge impact in how you packaged your offerings.
[00:13:08.200 --> 00:13:26.600] So instead of doing a la carte, this and that here and there, where you're spending a ton of time and money on estimates and proposals and dealing with scope creep and invoicing and all of the things, you package it all up so that it's one seamless product.
[00:13:26.600 --> 00:13:38.360] And it really also then serves your client better too, where you have a customer journey that you're taking them on that probably makes them feel more reassured and confident whenever it comes to hiring you.
[00:13:38.360 --> 00:13:41.320] But again, it wasn't this huge shift.
[00:13:41.320 --> 00:13:45.720] It was just a like shift in perspective more than anything.
[00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:48.840] Yeah, I feel like we often talk about dialing it in, right?
[00:13:48.840 --> 00:13:55.800] Like you get the thing and then you just start like making small tweaks of the dial to like really get it to where it needs to be.
[00:13:55.800 --> 00:13:57.000] And that is what evolution is.
[00:13:57.000 --> 00:14:04.840] And I love that you, you brought up this like organic versus intentional of, I think, if I think organic evolution happens.
[00:14:04.840 --> 00:14:06.840] Like markets change, right?
[00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:14.680] Circumstances shift where you are, who it is that you can best service, those sorts of things organically shift.
[00:14:14.680 --> 00:14:26.160] But I think once you start recognizing an organic shift, making it intentional is incredibly important, or else you're going to end up just like way down a road that you never wanted to go down.
[00:14:26.160 --> 00:14:42.880] So there is like a letting things shift as they need to shift and not being too rigid, especially in the online world, but at the same time, being aware and taking a hold of the opportunities when they start showing themselves as being worth the effort.
[00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:48.080] Well, and that comes back to one of our pillars of being boss, which is boundaries and having boundaries.
[00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:56.720] So I think that to evolve in a way that feels really good, it does require having boundaries that you will not cross.
[00:14:56.720 --> 00:15:01.600] So if there's something that you don't want to do, even though every single person is asking for it.
[00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:04.720] So for example, in my business, that would be building websites.
[00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:12.720] People would love it if we were more turnkey and did their branding and their brand package and then could just upload it to a website.
[00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:17.280] But we have found time and time again that it is just not in our wheelhouse.
[00:15:17.280 --> 00:15:19.840] It is not in our core genius.
[00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:21.680] And so we keep declining.
[00:15:21.680 --> 00:15:26.080] And every year or two, I come back to, oh, should we be offering this?
[00:15:26.080 --> 00:15:27.920] Should we grow our team in this way?
[00:15:27.920 --> 00:15:29.600] What would that look like?
[00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:35.040] And time and time again, I have to remind myself: nope, there are reasons why we don't offer web.
[00:15:35.040 --> 00:15:38.000] God bless all of you web designer and developers out there.
[00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:39.200] I feel for you.
[00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:40.960] And I'm like, no, don't do it.
[00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:42.960] Don't do it.
[00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:50.240] Spreadsheets have their place, but sometimes there really is a better solution.
[00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:58.240] With HubSpot CRM, get real-time data at your fingertips so your team stays in sync across the customer journey.
[00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:11.960] Track for contacts and customers and personalized emails and bulk and get the contacts you need to create amazing experiences for you, your team, and your customers at scale, all from one powerful platform.
[00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:18.600] It's why more than 150,000 companies already use HubSpot CRM to run their businesses better.
[00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:29.240] Plus, HubSpot's user-friendly interface sets you up for success from day one, so you can spend less time managing software and more time on what matters, your customers.
[00:16:29.240 --> 00:16:31.320] There's no better time to get organized.
[00:16:31.320 --> 00:16:42.280] Learn how HubSpot can help your business grow better and get a special offer of 20% off on eligible plans at hubspot.com slash being boss.
[00:16:45.800 --> 00:16:49.080] So then, Beving, that's a great picture of evolution.
[00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:53.960] Let's talk about pivoting because I do think this is bigger and it's funny.
[00:16:53.960 --> 00:16:58.760] I feel like most times when people say they're pivoting, they're actually just evolving.
[00:16:58.760 --> 00:17:01.480] So, what actually is a pivot?
[00:17:01.800 --> 00:17:09.400] Yes, I mean, I think of a pivot as making like a 180-degree turn.
[00:17:09.400 --> 00:17:13.800] Like, you are going one way and then you turn and you're going the other way now.
[00:17:13.800 --> 00:17:19.000] So, for me, a pivot looks like burning it all down and starting from scratch.
[00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:29.320] Or it looks like a total rebrand where you're maybe changing your name and maybe your offering isn't changing a whole, whole lot, but that feels a little bit more like a pivot to me.
[00:17:29.320 --> 00:17:29.880] What about you?
[00:17:29.880 --> 00:17:32.920] What do you think about pivoting versus evolving?
[00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:37.240] Yeah, I think I agree with the 180 comment.
[00:17:37.240 --> 00:17:39.560] I was thinking about this this morning as I was driving to work.
[00:17:39.560 --> 00:17:41.960] Like, what is the difference between an evolution and a pivot?
[00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:48.800] Because this is small, and I think we are using it incorrectly often when we are talking about pivoting.
[00:17:49.120 --> 00:17:56.240] And I thought about how, you know, there's the elevator pitch of, you know, I am so-and-so, and I do this for these people.
[00:17:56.560 --> 00:18:15.040] And I think a pivot happens when your what it is that you do drastically changes, or who you do it for drastically changes, or even more so if it's both of those things, because then basically it's just a whole new business.
[00:18:15.040 --> 00:18:27.520] And so I think that there's like a, I think there's a scale of like maybe instead of evolving and pivoting being two incredibly different things, I actually just think they're two ends of a spectrum, right?
[00:18:27.520 --> 00:18:31.040] And in the middle, there's this like I'm changing one or the other.
[00:18:31.040 --> 00:18:37.760] And then on the other, on the pivoting side, is I'm changing like all the way on the pivoting side is I'm changing both.
[00:18:37.760 --> 00:18:50.240] And so that's how I think about it: if you are doing something completely different, but for the same people or doing the same thing, but for completely different people, then you have entered the realm of pivoting.
[00:18:50.560 --> 00:19:08.240] Yeah, it's interesting because even in my own business, Braid Creative has evolved tremendously in that we went from offering branding for creative entrepreneurs to also offering branding for organizations and institutions and nonprofits and larger businesses.
[00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:18.880] And it was a really interesting challenge because we're still evolving our customer base, but we didn't really necessarily change or pivot our product or offering.
[00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:23.680] Now, we've evolved how we apply the braid method to those different clients.
[00:19:23.680 --> 00:19:27.600] Like, it looks a little bit different for those client bases.
[00:19:27.600 --> 00:19:33.160] But the challenge that I've had with evolving there is that people thought it was a pivot whenever it wasn't.
[00:19:33.400 --> 00:19:37.480] It was an evolution because we're still serving creative entrepreneurs.
[00:19:37.480 --> 00:19:44.280] We still do one-on-one branding for creative entrepreneurs or small business owners, and we love doing that.
[00:19:44.280 --> 00:19:47.480] And we will probably never really stop doing that.
[00:19:48.200 --> 00:20:04.360] So, there can be a positioning problem whenever you start to expand, like whenever your evolution involves expansion, because I think that people are so used to seeing other creatives pivot and like kind of remove their flag from one hill and put it in another hill.
[00:20:04.360 --> 00:20:07.640] And I think that that's really impressive, and that's another thing.
[00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:18.040] But evolving is more like if you're reading a book, evolving is the next chapter in that book, or maybe the next series in that series of books, right?
[00:20:18.040 --> 00:20:23.800] Whereas a pivot is the same author, but maybe a whole new book about a whole new subject.
[00:20:23.800 --> 00:20:25.240] None of the characters are the same.
[00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:30.280] So, that's probably the metaphor I think of the most whenever I think of a pivot versus an evolution.
[00:20:30.600 --> 00:20:32.040] Yeah, I love that.
[00:20:32.040 --> 00:20:47.240] Well, and I think, you know, going from indie chopography, working with creatives, with websites, and all of these things, and going into being boss, where still same people, but completely different product, that was a pivot, right?
[00:20:47.240 --> 00:20:49.960] That was a very big change that I made.
[00:20:49.960 --> 00:20:54.920] And even going from being boss into Almanac, even larger pivot.
[00:20:54.920 --> 00:21:04.040] And there's been evolutions within the context of all three of those businesses along the way, including the ending of Indy several years ago.
[00:21:04.040 --> 00:21:06.680] But those big shifts are pivots.
[00:21:06.680 --> 00:21:10.680] And so, oftentimes, I think when people are saying, I'm pivoting, no, you're not.
[00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:12.360] You're evolving.
[00:21:12.360 --> 00:21:21.360] And I think if you were to shift the language around it, you'd probably have way less fraudy feelings about it, which is another thing I think we'll be talking about later.
[00:21:21.360 --> 00:21:33.120] Because we think that we think that, you know, pivoting is a sign of like not being able to settle into what we're doing or whatever, whatever stories we're telling ourselves as we are evolving along the way.
[00:21:33.120 --> 00:21:47.040] Whereas if you position it as evolving, it's easier to just accept the natural changes that come as you grow as a professional and as your business grows with time.
[00:21:48.320 --> 00:21:51.520] I work with quite a few life coaches and therapists.
[00:21:51.520 --> 00:21:55.120] That's one of the small businesses that hire us for one-on-one branding.
[00:21:55.120 --> 00:21:58.720] And sometimes they'll come back to us a few years later and say, Okay, I'm pivoting.
[00:21:58.720 --> 00:22:02.240] I'm going from life coaching to death coaching.
[00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:04.400] I'm now going to be a death doula.
[00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:10.640] And I even consider that actually more of an evolution than a total pivot.
[00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:13.840] And I think that people just get really freaked out.
[00:22:13.840 --> 00:22:20.640] And I don't know where the blockage is or where they get stuck on thinking that it's a total drastic change.
[00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:28.560] And really, more than anything, what they need is a sense of comfort and permission whenever it comes to evolving and growing into what they want to be.
[00:22:28.560 --> 00:22:40.160] So the one thing I want any of you to remember as you're evolving or even pivoting and totally starting from scratch with something new is to remember that you are the common denominator.
[00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:45.440] You have, you know, changed, of course, along your journey, but you are still you.
[00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:56.960] And you, if you trust that, if you have confidence in you and who you are as a business owner, that will shine through no matter what kind of evolution or pivot you make.
[00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:01.000] And so, to your point, Emily, you had indie shopography.
[00:23:01.240 --> 00:23:07.480] I remember at one point, maybe you were even thinking about rebranding it as Indie Boom, which would have been a really cool evolution.
[00:23:07.480 --> 00:23:17.720] That's like an example of where you could have evolved the brand to go away from just being for online shops to being for anyone who's doing business online, right?
[00:23:17.720 --> 00:23:18.760] Like this indie boom.
[00:23:18.760 --> 00:23:24.600] And it's kind of like rebranding around your packaged offering, which I think is another great evolution.
[00:23:25.400 --> 00:23:34.680] But really, even then, with being boss and almanac, you've never just said, Hey, everything I've done in the past has nothing to do with this.
[00:23:34.840 --> 00:23:40.440] You've always brought who you are and what you've learned along the way into what's next.
[00:23:40.440 --> 00:23:53.080] So make sure that whenever it comes to the next path, you know, the next path that you're taking or getting further down the road that you're already on, the scenery might change, but you are still the person taking that journey.
[00:23:53.080 --> 00:23:57.480] And you've got all of that experience and knowledge that you've built up along the way.
[00:23:57.480 --> 00:24:02.840] And that will propel you, it will fuel you, it will make the work that you do so much faster.
[00:24:02.840 --> 00:24:09.560] I know that anytime I'm evolving in a way that feels like I'm going back, I'm like, okay, let's go back to blank.
[00:24:09.560 --> 00:24:12.440] And I always have to shift my language and mindset around that.
[00:24:12.440 --> 00:24:14.120] I'm not going back.
[00:24:14.440 --> 00:24:15.560] I'm actually moving forward.
[00:24:15.560 --> 00:24:21.640] So, even, for example, coming back on the podcasts for a little bit, I'm like, I kind of want to come back to being boss.
[00:24:21.960 --> 00:24:23.400] It's not really coming back.
[00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:27.880] It's kind of joining you back on the journey of where you've been and moving forward.
[00:24:27.880 --> 00:24:30.200] And I've been on a journey too for the past couple of years.
[00:24:30.200 --> 00:24:36.440] So it's just interesting, really, how mindset can play such a big part whenever it comes to evolving.
[00:24:36.440 --> 00:24:37.720] Yeah, for sure.
[00:24:37.720 --> 00:24:40.680] I think, I think all of those points are incredibly valid.
[00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:54.560] And I do think, you know, that's one of the reasons why here on Being Boss, as we are interviewing other people, we're always asking them to share their journey first because everyone's paths are incredibly windy, right?
[00:24:54.560 --> 00:24:58.240] We all do crazy things along the way to get where we are.
[00:24:58.320 --> 00:25:07.840] We're collecting all these tools to put in our tool belt so that whenever we show up to do the thing, you know, and actually, I don't even believe that there is like the thing we're meant to do in our lives, you know, that we're prepared for it.
[00:25:07.840 --> 00:25:10.720] We're just taking all these little steps along the way.
[00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:12.880] So love all of that.
[00:25:12.880 --> 00:25:22.480] I want to talk then about rebranding and refreshing because I think we just did some redefining of both pivoting and evolving.
[00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:26.880] And I think we're probably going to be doing the same with rebranding and refreshing, aren't we?
[00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:27.920] I think so.
[00:25:27.920 --> 00:25:29.200] I think so.
[00:25:29.200 --> 00:25:36.960] So the difference between a rebrand and a refresh, a rebrand is where you might be changing your name.
[00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:39.600] You might be shifting.
[00:25:39.600 --> 00:25:46.400] I mean, I really do think it's a name change, which comes with, I mean, that seems kind of surfacy, right?
[00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:49.920] Just changing your name, but usually there's a big catalyst behind that.
[00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:51.200] Well, like the pivot.
[00:25:51.200 --> 00:25:51.600] Yeah.
[00:25:51.600 --> 00:25:54.800] It's like, it's when an actual pivot is happening.
[00:25:54.800 --> 00:25:55.280] Right.
[00:25:55.280 --> 00:26:08.000] And so I find that sometimes people want to rebrand whenever they're going from having a personality-driven business to a business that they want to grow and evolve beyond just themselves and their face, right?
[00:26:09.120 --> 00:26:17.040] And it might happen in the opposite way where someone has had a business name and they're ready to put their own personal brand more in the forefront.
[00:26:17.040 --> 00:26:24.720] They're ready to begin speaking or publishing or podcasting or YouTubing or writing a book, whatever that might look like for them.
[00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:29.760] They want to bring themselves front and center and go from doing to teaching.
[00:26:30.760 --> 00:26:34.840] So both of these might be reasons for a rebrand.
[00:26:34.840 --> 00:26:37.240] And sometimes they can kind of work together.
[00:26:37.240 --> 00:26:45.160] And that can even be an evolution where there's this kind of transition that happens of going from a business to a personal brand.
[00:26:45.320 --> 00:26:53.080] So for example, with you, Emily, in indie shopography, it could have, and you, let's say, you were wanting to bring about your personal brand a little bit more.
[00:26:53.080 --> 00:26:58.040] Well, you decided to start being boss, which we almost named the Emily and Kathleen show.
[00:26:58.680 --> 00:27:04.120] But it could have been indie shopography with Emily Thompson, right?
[00:27:04.120 --> 00:27:15.560] And you start to then reverse the hierarchy of that tagline with Emily Thompson to now your brand is Emily Thompson, founder of Indie Shopography, right?
[00:27:15.560 --> 00:27:20.120] So you can kind of almost think about it as like shifting hierarchies in your business.
[00:27:20.120 --> 00:27:29.320] So anyway, that's one example of a rebrand where a refresh might just be updating your logo, typography, colors, marks.
[00:27:29.320 --> 00:27:33.800] We've seen examples of this happen with lots of corporations over the years.
[00:27:33.800 --> 00:27:44.600] Like whenever there's just these subtle tweaks and refinements, because maybe you designed your logo in 2008 and now you look at it and you're like, oh, wow, that was real trendy in 2008.
[00:27:44.600 --> 00:27:55.240] You know, like if you have an arch in your logo right now, you know, and your logo was created in 2018, like you might be ready for a refresh.
[00:27:55.240 --> 00:27:58.520] And listen, I've designed some archie logos and I didn't know.
[00:27:58.520 --> 00:28:04.600] Like sometimes you don't know, or sometimes you want to be trendy and relevant and then evolve with the new trends.
[00:28:04.600 --> 00:28:06.040] And that's okay too.
[00:28:06.360 --> 00:28:09.400] It really is thinking about though, what doesn't change.
[00:28:09.400 --> 00:28:24.240] So, really keeping from a graphic design perspective, because that's my forte, is really thinking about your color palette, your typography, your imagery, what stays the same, and what's changing and evolving as you go.
[00:28:24.800 --> 00:28:30.880] You know, how I'm obsessed about how our cells turn over every seven years, like and we're a whole new person.
[00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:33.440] I think I even wrote about this in our book.
[00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:44.720] I'm obsessed with this idea that our whole bodies change over every seven years, but then there's still this aspect of us who is the same our whole lifetime.
[00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:49.280] So, I kind of think about a refresh that way, where it's like, what are you shedding?
[00:28:49.280 --> 00:28:50.320] What are you bringing in?
[00:28:50.320 --> 00:29:03.120] And seven years from now, those slow evolutions from a visual external standpoint might have a totally different brand, but you've eased your customers and yourself along the way.
[00:29:03.120 --> 00:29:03.680] Yeah.
[00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:04.160] Yes.
[00:29:04.160 --> 00:29:16.400] And I love the sort of again, whenever you adopt the real words for what it is that you're doing, you put yourself in a better place to embrace the ease of a process.
[00:29:16.400 --> 00:29:26.960] I think if you think about, oh, I have to rebrand, like who staying awake with anxiety all night, thinking about all the things that you need to do to make your business work in its, you know, new evolved iteration.
[00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:34.720] Whereas if you're like, okay, I just need to refresh, ah, the ease with which you can move forward with this, you know, new direction that you've taken for yourself.
[00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:45.600] I think that it helps you, I don't know, embrace the changes and not let things hold you back from moving into what it is that you're doing next.
[00:29:45.600 --> 00:29:57.040] And also, and also at the same time, bring the correct weight to what a rebrand should be for your business if and when you choose that path as well.
[00:29:57.040 --> 00:30:04.200] Yes, I really want to hone in on this a little bit because a refresh is not going to take a lot of resources.
[00:30:04.520 --> 00:30:08.280] It's not going to take a whole lot of time, energy, and money, right?
[00:30:08.280 --> 00:30:16.680] A rebrand is like starting from scratch, if not more so, because now you know what you didn't know the first time you started the business, right?
[00:30:16.680 --> 00:30:19.400] So I would not go into a rebrand lightly.
[00:30:19.400 --> 00:30:22.760] There is something really liberating about saying, you know what?
[00:30:22.760 --> 00:30:25.640] I'm just going to shut it all down and start fresh.
[00:30:25.640 --> 00:30:34.680] Like in some ways, that might give you more ability and permission to do what it is that you really want to do in a new way that makes sense for you.
[00:30:34.680 --> 00:30:38.040] And it's probably also based on like your personality type, right?
[00:30:38.040 --> 00:30:40.360] And what feels better to you.
[00:30:40.360 --> 00:30:44.600] But so you could do a refresh with the trajectory of kind of a rebrand.
[00:30:44.600 --> 00:30:51.480] So it's kind of a really slow rebrand, like easing into it, or you can just rip the bandaid off and rebrand if that's your jam.
[00:30:51.480 --> 00:31:07.640] The thing is, and the thing I want to caution anyone against, and this even includes investing in a brand before you've even started doing your business, before you've even figured it out, is that it can be a very costly way to figure out that you don't want to be known for something, right?
[00:31:07.640 --> 00:31:28.200] So just be very careful whenever it comes to branding or rebranding, whenever you don't have enough experience under your belt, because you might find a year from now that you hate being a life coach and you've built this whole brand and identity around being a life coach, you know, or a specific kind of life coach or offering a certain thing.
[00:31:28.200 --> 00:31:29.640] So just be careful there.
[00:31:29.640 --> 00:31:30.760] I would test the waters.
[00:31:30.760 --> 00:31:33.160] And that's the nice thing about a brand evolution.
[00:31:33.160 --> 00:31:39.880] And a great way to employ a brand evolution and a business evolution is in your content and in the customers that you serve.
[00:31:39.880 --> 00:31:59.120] So it can be a very, if you want to do it in an intentional way, it could be saying, Hey, I would love to be doing more of this kind of work for this kind of person, even if that's not reflected in your portfolio yet, by putting it out there, either in a podcast or a blog post or on social media or however you're getting yourself out there.
[00:31:59.120 --> 00:31:59.840] Do that.
[00:31:59.840 --> 00:32:01.440] Get a little bit of experience under your belt.
[00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:02.160] See what you like.
[00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:03.680] See what you don't like.
[00:32:03.680 --> 00:32:14.560] One thing that I always like to ask my clients whenever they come to me, whether it's for a rebrand or refresh, is like, okay, if you could only do one thing, what is it that you would want to do all day, every day?
[00:32:14.560 --> 00:32:18.160] And if you could stop doing one thing, what would that be?
[00:32:18.160 --> 00:32:23.520] Like, that's a great way to think about your evolution in your business.
[00:32:23.520 --> 00:32:30.320] But then, also, a third question I've been asking a lot lately is: what's something new that you want to try?
[00:32:30.320 --> 00:32:33.680] And there is a lot in that question, too.
[00:32:33.680 --> 00:32:39.200] And that can, that's usually the thing that's a little bit more scary, that's going to take a little bit more momentum.
[00:32:39.200 --> 00:32:50.080] And whether that momentum requires a coach or a community, like the being boss community, to like kind of get that support under you or that momentum or that encouragement.
[00:32:50.080 --> 00:32:56.640] You know, that's the thing that also might lead you to a more intentional evolution that's not just kind of falling in your lap.
[00:32:56.640 --> 00:32:57.040] Yeah.
[00:32:57.040 --> 00:32:58.960] Oh, I love all of that.
[00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:09.680] And I hope that's inspiring folks to think about what's next for your business, one way or the other, because I think that, or I know that, especially doing business online, but also, also all business.
[00:33:09.680 --> 00:33:18.000] More, I also say this as someone who runs a rock shop, which is like rocks were one of the first things being traded by humankind ever, right?
[00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:21.280] Like, this is like the world's oldest business right here, rocks.
[00:33:21.280 --> 00:33:28.240] And well, aside from, you know, selling your body like the boss you are, Emily.
[00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:28.640] Right.
[00:33:28.640 --> 00:33:31.000] Or like food or water, sure.
[00:33:31.320 --> 00:33:32.440] Some more necessities.
[00:33:29.840 --> 00:33:33.480] And then there's rocks.
[00:33:34.040 --> 00:33:41.880] So even as someone who is in one of the world's oldest industries, business is still changing consistently.
[00:33:41.880 --> 00:33:53.480] And I think that if you are, you know, too rigid, too married to a brand that you spent a lot of money on that you're afraid to adjust because you made an investment or whatever it may be.
[00:33:53.800 --> 00:34:00.200] The more rigid you are, the more you're closing yourself up to the opportunities ahead of you as you're evolving.
[00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:14.360] And what I love about especially that, like, that question of what do you want to be doing or what do you want to do next or what do you want to explore or whatever is that you're opening up to the experience of what is next for you and or your business and or your customers or whatever it may be.
[00:34:14.360 --> 00:34:17.640] And I think that's, that's a really powerful thing.
[00:34:17.640 --> 00:34:30.440] But I also know that there's a group of creatives in particular who love the pivot and the evolution always pivoting and evolving.
[00:34:30.440 --> 00:34:41.320] And it's tricky because you might not ever be gaining traction if you're constantly pivoting and evolving and you wonder why you're just kind of spinning in your own wheel.
[00:34:41.320 --> 00:34:45.240] It's because you haven't given it a chance to like really hook in.
[00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:47.320] I think, I think there's lots of paths.
[00:34:47.320 --> 00:34:59.640] I think if you are here to be a freelancer to just make money in whatever way you can using the skills that you have, the constant evolution or pivot or whatever, like that is for you for sure.
[00:34:59.640 --> 00:35:02.680] Like you have chosen that path, and I love that for you.
[00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:12.440] If you are here to grow a business, something that you expect to have longevity, then you need to commit to a thing for a while.
[00:35:12.440 --> 00:35:16.960] Small evolutions along the way, for sure, but like you need to let the thing get traction.
[00:35:17.040 --> 00:35:23.040] And even as we shared, you know, my path of three businesses, this is over the course of 12 years, right?
[00:35:23.040 --> 00:35:27.600] This is not like I started one and two years later, I started another one, and two years later, I started another one.
[00:35:27.600 --> 00:35:30.400] And there's been overlaps of all of them as well.
[00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:37.360] So, over the course of 12, probably even more than that now, if I'm being quite honest, I haven't done the math in a long time.
[00:35:37.360 --> 00:35:39.040] I just got to 12 and stopped.
[00:35:39.040 --> 00:35:41.360] You know, like you turn 32 and you stop aging.
[00:35:41.360 --> 00:35:42.160] I think that's what I did.
[00:35:42.160 --> 00:35:47.200] And I feel like you're not even counting the jewelry business in this, in this line.
[00:35:47.360 --> 00:35:48.000] Or the tanning sales.
[00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:49.520] You guys throw the tanning salon in there as well.
[00:35:51.600 --> 00:35:55.440] Then that's a hardy like 20 years, just about, I think.
[00:35:55.920 --> 00:36:01.600] So, you know, these are things where you get in, you like dig into the thing and you build the thing.
[00:36:01.600 --> 00:36:04.720] You like you're making money, you're profitable, whatever.
[00:36:04.720 --> 00:36:09.520] And then things happen along the way that give you the ability to shift and change, right?
[00:36:09.520 --> 00:36:12.640] Even think of being boss, like the business with no business model, right?
[00:36:12.640 --> 00:36:26.320] Where like we have just been here to evolve along the way is still a place where, like, if you look at our branding, it has been visually, we've only ever truly had two.
[00:36:26.320 --> 00:36:29.920] There have been like small evolutions, especially in the second one.
[00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:34.240] And the like positioning has always been the exact same.
[00:36:34.240 --> 00:36:34.800] Yeah.
[00:36:35.120 --> 00:36:36.400] The exact same.
[00:36:36.400 --> 00:36:44.080] So you can like you can dig into something and evolve within it, but still have your container be the exact same.
[00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:45.280] So I don't know.
[00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:48.720] I just wanted to throw that out there of like what these sort of options look like.
[00:36:48.720 --> 00:37:06.680] Cause we are talking about all of these things and like you should be doing them all the time and you should be, but you can also do them in a way that allows you to really grow and mature something to get out of it what you most need before you make a big pivot into something else.
[00:37:08.280 --> 00:37:19.000] Settling yourself into the flow of your business from navigating a whole year of ebbs and flows to embracing the energy of each and every day, you're bound to have some ups and downs along the way.
[00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:24.440] For me, this journey of entrepreneurship is made better when my space keeps me focused and inspired.
[00:37:24.440 --> 00:37:33.720] As an example, my favorite way to mark the beginning and ending of the workday is to light a candle when I sit down at my desk and then blow it out when I'm done for the day.
[00:37:33.720 --> 00:37:39.240] It's a little ritual that creates boundaries and a vibe that keeps me focused and feeling cozy.
[00:37:39.240 --> 00:37:42.040] And the ritual candle that we make at Almanac Supply Co.
[00:37:42.040 --> 00:37:43.800] is my favorite for this.
[00:37:43.800 --> 00:37:58.040] In fact, my whole shop is filled with items that I've curated to create the vibe for feeling connected, in flow, and inspired with candles, crystals, and other goodies to help you create a dreamy workspace, bedside table, or bookshelf.
[00:37:58.040 --> 00:38:09.480] Come gather inspiration and check out my favorite in-stock items at almanacsupplyco.com slash beingboss and get 15% off with code beingboss at checkout.
[00:38:09.480 --> 00:38:13.560] That's almanacsupplycode.com slash beingboss.
[00:38:18.040 --> 00:38:21.560] I want to talk a little bit about behind the scenes evolutions.
[00:38:21.560 --> 00:38:30.360] It's not as sexy, but I feel like it's something that you're especially an expert at, Emily, which is like evolving systems and processes.
[00:38:30.360 --> 00:38:39.240] So, as you continue to grow as a business or even see what's working and what's not working, you're going to want to evolve how you work.
[00:38:39.240 --> 00:38:58.240] So, things like your invoicing, your project management, and your project flow, how you're managing your money, what the customer journey looks like, and their user experience from the first time they email you or walk into your shop to the final deliverables that they have purchased or that you are finally providing for them.
[00:38:58.240 --> 00:39:06.560] There's also behind-the-scenes evolutions like growing your team or shrinking your team or moving into an online space.
[00:39:06.560 --> 00:39:12.160] Like, there are so many different kinds of behind-the-scene evolutions that nobody sees that are integral.
[00:39:12.480 --> 00:39:16.960] I have the hardest time with that word that are foundational to your business.
[00:39:16.960 --> 00:39:18.320] Okay, good.
[00:39:20.560 --> 00:39:21.280] Good job.
[00:39:21.280 --> 00:39:22.320] You did it.
[00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:23.760] Yeah, you're totally right.
[00:39:23.760 --> 00:39:32.320] There is like a there's an outward-facing sort of you know, branding, business positioning, you know, evolution or pivot.
[00:39:32.320 --> 00:39:41.040] And I think that usually happens more, more intentional, more intentionally, and probably visibly a little less often.
[00:39:41.040 --> 00:39:49.520] Whereas internal evolutions, I mean, I'm tweaking and making more effective constantly, right?
[00:39:49.520 --> 00:39:58.960] Keeping things in tip-top shape and running as smoothly and as efficiently as possible daily, more or less.
[00:39:59.360 --> 00:40:03.840] Maybe not daily, that feels a little dramatic, but consistently for sure.
[00:40:04.160 --> 00:40:10.080] So, absolutely, it's not just an external phenomenon in business, it's also very much so internal.
[00:40:10.080 --> 00:40:10.720] All right.
[00:40:10.720 --> 00:40:13.760] So, what about how to know whenever it's time to evolve?
[00:40:13.760 --> 00:40:20.120] If you haven't had this kind of organic evolvement happening in your business and in your brand.
[00:40:20.360 --> 00:40:23.280] How do you know whenever it's time to evolve?
[00:40:23.280 --> 00:40:25.360] Because things aren't feeling quite right.
[00:40:25.360 --> 00:40:31.400] You know, like someone might be listening to this and being like, I think I need to evolve, but it's just not happening.
[00:40:31.640 --> 00:40:36.520] What does that look like for a small business owner or a creative entrepreneur?
[00:40:36.520 --> 00:40:38.680] Yeah, I mean, I think you kind of hit it on the head.
[00:40:38.680 --> 00:40:39.800] I think you know.
[00:40:39.800 --> 00:40:41.800] I think you just know, like you feel it.
[00:40:41.800 --> 00:40:42.680] Something fills off.
[00:40:42.680 --> 00:40:45.480] But I also think like look at your numbers.
[00:40:45.800 --> 00:40:48.680] Or we even have a worksheet for this, right?
[00:40:48.920 --> 00:40:51.960] It's a worksheet called What's Working, Kind of Working, Not Working.
[00:40:52.040 --> 00:41:05.480] We'll include a link to it in the show notes where you can literally sit down and look at all of your offerings, look at all of your, you know, the customers that your business serves, whatever it may be, and decide what's working, what's kind of working, and what's not working.
[00:41:05.480 --> 00:41:15.320] And whenever things start shifting around, when, you know, things that used to work don't work anymore or only kind of working, that's usually a sign that there needs to be some sort of evolution.
[00:41:15.320 --> 00:41:23.000] Maybe the customer that you're serving isn't really the customer you need to be serving anymore.
[00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:28.840] Maybe how it is that you're delivering it isn't how it needs to be delivered anymore, whatever it may be.
[00:41:29.160 --> 00:41:46.920] I think getting in and doing some analysis, backing up feelings with numbers always is incredibly important and really pinpointing the thing that it is time to evolve or delete or if it all just needs to be pivoted into something completely different.
[00:41:47.240 --> 00:42:00.840] I think a good analysis is great for helping you decide if this is just like a sparkly object situation where you just maybe want to do the next thing because you have an itch or if your business actually needs it.
[00:42:01.160 --> 00:42:08.840] And tools like the CEO day kit that Being Boss offers, you know, that's a great way to check in with yourself as you go.
[00:42:08.840 --> 00:42:25.440] And it's really going to facilitate either natural evolutions that you just didn't take the time to really get on paper, or it's going to bring about intentional evolutions that you know you need to make, but you hadn't quite pinpointed or identified.
[00:42:25.440 --> 00:42:34.000] And then I can't help but plug the braid method branding workbook because, again, these are like worksheets that you can print off and you can print off multiple of them.
[00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:38.400] So let's say you have a business idea and you want to do a total pivot.
[00:42:38.400 --> 00:42:51.200] You could take that whole idea through kind of a branding process or through the CEO day kit and see on paper if it works or doesn't work or how different it is from what you're already doing.
[00:42:51.200 --> 00:42:59.200] And that's the thing is that, you know, I've had some people who want to go through the braid method for two different businesses and they're filling out their cards the exact same way.
[00:42:59.200 --> 00:43:01.360] And I'm like, okay, this is one business.
[00:43:01.360 --> 00:43:03.040] This is not two businesses.
[00:43:03.040 --> 00:43:07.200] This is one because you've filled everything out identically.
[00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:27.520] So these are just tools that will really help you really figure out what's intentional, what's organic, where you're at and where you want to go and even where you've been and how all of that can back up how you continue to, you know, take yourself on this trajectory of where you want to go and be the boss of your work and life.
[00:43:27.520 --> 00:43:28.000] Yeah.
[00:43:28.560 --> 00:43:29.200] Love it all.
[00:43:29.200 --> 00:43:31.360] We have lots of tools for you, basically.
[00:43:31.760 --> 00:43:41.920] Okay, next I want to talk about how to do this in the most boss way possible, because I think we've all been in a place where it is time to evolve and or pivot.
[00:43:42.240 --> 00:43:45.200] And a lot can happen along the way.
[00:43:45.200 --> 00:43:56.000] And so I think talking about what it looks like to actually do it and to maintain, you know, brand integrity or business integrity or, you know, keep your cool along the way.
[00:43:56.000 --> 00:43:57.680] We hit on fraudde feelings a minute ago.
[00:43:57.680 --> 00:44:02.600] I think that's something that definitely comes up along the way as you are making these moves in business.
[00:44:02.920 --> 00:44:09.560] Let's talk about what it means to be boss as you make shifts in your business.
[00:44:09.880 --> 00:44:14.280] Well, I think that the idea of having a shift feels really sparkly and exciting.
[00:44:14.280 --> 00:44:16.200] And then the rubber meets the road.
[00:44:16.600 --> 00:44:17.720] Terrifying.
[00:44:18.440 --> 00:44:37.000] Or I want to throw in here because I think if you, I think if you do the exercise, you know, what's working, kind of working, not working, you realize that the core of what you do and that you've done for 10, 15, 20 years, I don't even know, isn't working anymore because something in the market has changed or something in how you deliver has changed or whatever.
[00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:43.800] I think it can also be incredibly terrifying to be at a place where you need to pivot.
[00:44:44.120 --> 00:44:51.000] Well, I think it's almost like the New Year's resolution effect where you're like, okay, something's going to change and I want to change like a boss.
[00:44:51.000 --> 00:44:51.800] What's it going to be?
[00:44:51.800 --> 00:44:57.000] And your New Year's resolution might stick for a week or two and then you kind of fall out of it.
[00:44:57.000 --> 00:44:57.480] Right.
[00:44:57.480 --> 00:45:07.320] And so really going about an evolution and making and reflecting that change across the board, it takes some really unsexy work.
[00:45:07.320 --> 00:45:07.720] Right.
[00:45:07.720 --> 00:45:10.600] And it takes some work that you have to dedicate yourself to.
[00:45:10.600 --> 00:45:17.640] So first and foremost, I would say getting the tools that you need to create that framework of like what's evolved and what hasn't.
[00:45:17.640 --> 00:45:18.360] We covered that.
[00:45:18.360 --> 00:45:26.200] Like the Braid branding workbook is a great place and this EO Day kit and all of the worksheets that you offer Emily are a great place to start, right?
[00:45:26.200 --> 00:45:28.040] So getting it on paper.
[00:45:28.040 --> 00:45:31.880] Second, I would do an audit of what you already have.
[00:45:31.880 --> 00:45:38.840] I would make sure to print off, like on paper, your entire website and your social media.
[00:45:38.840 --> 00:45:41.560] And we have actually a branding checklist on the Braid blog.
[00:45:41.560 --> 00:45:47.280] It's totally free that you can use to kind of audit all the places where your business shows up, right?
[00:45:47.600 --> 00:45:52.800] And what you want to do is take a red pen to it and a highlighter and highlight what's working.
[00:45:52.800 --> 00:45:59.760] Take a red pin to things that, you know, there might be stuff that you've already evolved that is so outdated on your website that you forgot was there.
[00:45:59.760 --> 00:46:02.000] And we are all guilty of this.
[00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:05.200] All of us could benefit from doing this exercise.
[00:46:05.200 --> 00:46:10.560] So really look at where you are and what you're already sharing and showing.
[00:46:10.560 --> 00:46:15.120] And then from there, I would start to prioritize what you update first and foremost.
[00:46:15.120 --> 00:46:16.320] Is it your logo?
[00:46:16.320 --> 00:46:19.200] Is it just simply some of the copy on your website?
[00:46:19.200 --> 00:46:21.200] Is it your Instagram handle?
[00:46:21.200 --> 00:46:23.920] Or is it, you know, even curating your feed?
[00:46:23.920 --> 00:46:27.040] Like, Emily, I noticed the other day that being boss had like five photos up.
[00:46:27.040 --> 00:46:31.680] Like you just like wiped everything out that was no longer relevant, right?
[00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:35.680] And so it really does look like doing a really good audit.
[00:46:35.680 --> 00:46:38.400] And a lot of that looks like slashing.
[00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:43.680] Like I think it's a good audit and a good edit of like removing, removing, removing.
[00:46:43.680 --> 00:46:52.560] Then from there, I think that you can really start to add back in and you can start to add back in new messaging and positioning around what you want to be known for.
[00:46:52.560 --> 00:46:57.600] You can update your portfolio to share more of the work you want to attract more of.
[00:46:59.200 --> 00:47:01.440] Yeah, that's that's how I would go about it.
[00:47:01.440 --> 00:47:04.240] And you have to schedule this stuff into your calendar.
[00:47:04.240 --> 00:47:05.520] Like this is a job.
[00:47:05.520 --> 00:47:11.920] You need to workflow it like an actual project, like you would for a client, but for yourself.
[00:47:11.920 --> 00:47:17.920] Because if you don't do that, it's just not going to happen, speaking from experience.
[00:47:17.920 --> 00:47:18.800] Yeah, for sure.
[00:47:18.800 --> 00:47:25.040] It is like it is the project you're tackling this quarter or next quarter or whatever it may be and should be treated as such.
[00:47:25.040 --> 00:47:43.640] I also want to throw in something, whether you're on the like sparkly excited camp or the completely terrified camp, one of the things to keep in mind as you are auditing and editing, I love that, is that a rebrand or a refresh or even a pivot should be taking you further into your values and what it is that you're great at.
[00:47:43.640 --> 00:48:10.360] And I think if you can keep that in mind, it gives some like courage and strength to the tasks that you have ahead and helps you really narrow in on what it is that you need to be evolving or pivoting into, as opposed to following any shiny objects along the way of like really getting in there and making this huge workload, this large workload, really worth it for where it is that you want to be.
[00:48:10.360 --> 00:48:34.280] One of the things that I really want to point out here too, though, because I've seen this happen so many times, especially for people who are like always evolving a lot and always pivoting a lot, or even people who are just doing the one big one, is that you should not let the sparkliness and excitement of a rebrand or a refresh or a launch or a pivot or any of those things distract you from what matters.
[00:48:34.280 --> 00:48:42.200] And that is your customers, your commitments, and whatever deliverables you are responsible for.
[00:48:42.200 --> 00:48:54.360] I find a lot of people getting into this like huge project of rebranding and they piss off all their customers along the way because they're working on the thing as opposed to like doing what it is that they're supposed to be doing for their people.
[00:48:55.320 --> 00:49:10.120] Or they completely lose sight of those things and aren't properly communicating or whatever it may be, and are focusing too much on the thing and less so about the reputation that they're still going to carry into the next thing that they're doing.
[00:49:11.080 --> 00:49:13.560] This could be a whole other episode.
[00:49:13.560 --> 00:49:21.120] Actually, in fact, maybe we should do a whole other episode on how to roll out a rebrand because I think that's a big fear that people have, what you just mentioned.
[00:49:21.280 --> 00:49:25.600] And I bet that you're poking at a lot of people's fear of doing that.
[00:49:26.720 --> 00:49:43.680] I will say that some of my more, you know, like mature clients who have their business and they are still delivering, one of their biggest fears is alienating or making excluding a customer base that they've built up by making a necessary evolution.
[00:49:44.240 --> 00:49:48.800] So, one of my clients that I can think of is the podcast Pantsuit Politics.
[00:49:48.800 --> 00:49:56.960] They've gone through now two brand processes with me, and they started as kind of being Sarah from the left and Beth from the right, right?
[00:49:56.960 --> 00:50:00.400] So, sharing this like liberal and conservative point of view.
[00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:07.920] Well, now they've both evolved over time to both be on kind of the more left side of the aisle.
[00:50:07.920 --> 00:50:10.320] They're both registered Democrats now.
[00:50:10.320 --> 00:50:18.800] Anyway, all this to say, though, they had built such a reputation and all this brand equity in their positioning of being from opposite sides of the aisle.
[00:50:18.800 --> 00:50:22.160] And they were so afraid because they love their audience base.
[00:50:22.160 --> 00:50:26.960] They even love their, like, I say they even love, this is where my biases are coming in.
[00:50:26.960 --> 00:50:28.960] They love their conservative listeners.
[00:50:28.960 --> 00:50:35.440] You know, they love, they really have built a really cool, interesting, strong community, and they were really scared of alienating them.
[00:50:35.440 --> 00:50:41.440] I think the same thing happened whenever being boss shifted from being the two of us to then just being you.
[00:50:41.440 --> 00:50:43.440] Like, what does that mean for the brand?
[00:50:43.440 --> 00:50:46.640] And is this going to scare people or upset them?
[00:50:46.640 --> 00:50:49.040] And yeah, it did upset a couple of people.
[00:50:49.040 --> 00:51:01.880] And I think that the biggest challenge that happens with your customers is that they feel that their experience was invalidated whenever you shift your brand because they think that you're saying something was wrong before.
[00:50:59.840 --> 00:51:06.840] And so you're cutting it out and it makes them feel like how they invested in you was wrong.
[00:51:07.160 --> 00:51:10.600] So you really do want to bring your customer in along the way.
[00:51:10.600 --> 00:51:13.960] You want to thank them for being a part of this evolution.
[00:51:13.960 --> 00:51:18.920] Think about how you can roll them into this evolution, even if they're not your dream customer anymore.
[00:51:18.920 --> 00:51:21.720] They help to get you where you are now.
[00:51:21.720 --> 00:51:23.560] And they are a part of your story.
[00:51:23.560 --> 00:51:28.920] And making them feel a part of that story is truly essential to growing ahead.
[00:51:29.320 --> 00:51:43.400] So, you know, that's just, again, this could be a whole other episode on how to roll out a relaunch or a refresh or a rebrand because you can do it in a few different ways that will put everyone at ease, yourself and your customer.
[00:51:43.400 --> 00:51:43.720] Yeah.
[00:51:43.720 --> 00:52:05.000] And I think you really just hit on like one of the biggest things, harking back to something we mentioned earlier in this episode, this idea of the fraudde feelings that come from these pivots of like wondering if people will get it, if they'll trust you in your new direction, if they will feel invalidated whenever you make a change or whatever it may be, if they feel like they have been, you know, defrauded along the way.
[00:52:05.000 --> 00:52:06.440] And that's dramatic.
[00:52:06.440 --> 00:52:09.800] In most cases, no, that's not really how that works.
[00:52:09.800 --> 00:52:12.040] It just is the fraudde feelings that are showing up.
[00:52:12.040 --> 00:52:21.400] But if you can keep the conversations open and be honest and vulnerable with the people, especially, and I'm not talking necessarily blasting on social media.
[00:52:21.400 --> 00:52:24.920] I'm talking like personal emails to your nearest and dearest clients, right?
[00:52:24.920 --> 00:52:35.960] Those sorts of folks, then they will help ease the fraudde feelings that can naturally come from deciding, hey, I'm tired of doing things this way, or I'm done doing things this way.
[00:52:35.960 --> 00:52:44.760] I need to do things in a new way, which is a scary step, but they'll be much more willing to back you along the way if you're open about the process.
[00:52:45.120 --> 00:52:51.760] The only thing I can think of how you should not do this is: do you remember?
[00:52:51.760 --> 00:52:54.960] I should probably give us a quick Google, but I don't actually want to name names.
[00:52:55.200 --> 00:52:57.040] Everyone can do their own Googling.
[00:52:57.040 --> 00:53:12.560] A couple of years ago, a really popular Oracle card designer and like writer came out very dramatically one day as a born-again Christian and completely put down every bit of work that she had ever done.
[00:53:12.560 --> 00:53:15.840] And anyone who was still using them was sinning.
[00:53:15.840 --> 00:53:19.600] And it went real crazy, real fast.
[00:53:19.920 --> 00:53:26.560] That's how you don't want to do it by any means.
[00:53:26.560 --> 00:53:30.640] But in most cases, our pivots are not that dramatic.
[00:53:30.640 --> 00:53:36.400] And people who support you are there to support you no matter what it is that you're doing within recent, obviously.
[00:53:36.400 --> 00:53:37.200] Exactly.
[00:53:37.200 --> 00:53:42.960] I mean, I think that you spoke to the frauddy feelings that come up with even a rebrand or a refresh.
[00:53:42.960 --> 00:53:47.760] And those frauddy feelings show up as being overly concerned about what your customer base is going to think.
[00:53:47.760 --> 00:53:49.920] Nine times out of 10, they're not going to think anything at all.
[00:53:49.920 --> 00:53:51.600] They're not even going to notice.
[00:53:51.600 --> 00:53:56.800] Like one of my, it's not a pet peeve, but it's like, I think it's a little cringy.
[00:53:56.800 --> 00:54:03.120] Sometimes there are people like big announcement tomorrow, you know, and then it's like they've changed their logo.
[00:54:03.440 --> 00:54:05.760] Like nobody cares.
[00:54:06.720 --> 00:54:07.920] I didn't.
[00:54:09.840 --> 00:54:16.160] If you've got a big announcement, it's got to be like after 2020, it's got to be bigger than a logo change, right?
[00:54:16.160 --> 00:54:24.560] So, just knowing, but this should bring you, this should bring you peace of mind and comfort in that you're thinking about yourself more than anybody else's.
[00:54:24.560 --> 00:54:28.960] Like, most people aren't going to be affected or upset or even really notice.
[00:54:28.960 --> 00:54:43.400] So, on both sides of the same coin, whether you're going to maybe upset people or invalidate them with your update or change, or that you think that everyone's going to be super stoked and excited for you, it's definitely somewhere in the middle.
[00:54:43.400 --> 00:54:54.760] You want to invite, again, just invite people along the way and use it as an opportunity to continue to, you know, nurture the community that you've created.
[00:54:55.080 --> 00:54:55.640] Yeah.
[00:54:56.120 --> 00:54:57.000] I love it.
[00:54:57.000 --> 00:54:58.520] Kathleen, this has been a treat.
[00:54:58.520 --> 00:55:05.080] Anything else you want to add about refreshing, rebranding, evolving, pivoting, whatever, whatever?
[00:55:05.400 --> 00:55:06.440] All of the above?
[00:55:06.440 --> 00:55:09.560] I think, I think that about covers it.
[00:55:10.200 --> 00:55:10.680] Yeah.
[00:55:11.000 --> 00:55:11.800] This feels good.
[00:55:11.800 --> 00:55:13.000] I mean, so everyone.
[00:55:13.000 --> 00:55:19.800] We've got like so much more stuff to say about like brand equity and reputation, but maybe we can dive into that stuff in a future episode.
[00:55:19.800 --> 00:55:21.720] Yeah, for sure.
[00:55:22.360 --> 00:55:23.160] Outline it.
[00:55:23.160 --> 00:55:24.600] I'm here for it for sure.
[00:55:24.600 --> 00:55:36.760] But I think that this is a really good job of giving a look at this process and how, on one hand, you don't have to take it as seriously, I think, as a lot of people take it.
[00:55:36.760 --> 00:55:39.320] Like if you're just evolving, that's a natural part of the process.
[00:55:39.320 --> 00:55:49.880] And not all of it has to be this like mind-bendy, huge investment scenario where you are changing your entire life because your business needs to evolve a little bit.
[00:55:49.880 --> 00:56:02.760] And on the other, say, on the other hand, really giving proper weight to the process that is either pivoting or rebranding your business and making sure that you're giving it the purpose that it needs.
[00:56:02.760 --> 00:56:06.680] But in most cases, what we're doing isn't quite that serious.
[00:56:07.320 --> 00:56:10.440] What's making you feel most bossed lately?
[00:56:11.720 --> 00:56:13.560] What's making me feel most bossed?
[00:56:13.560 --> 00:56:15.000] How about this fun little tidbit?
[00:56:16.240 --> 00:56:25.040] A couple episodes ago, I mentioned that I went to the doctor last year and my blood pressure is out of control, like hardcore.
[00:56:25.040 --> 00:56:29.120] How about it ain't no mo?
[00:56:29.120 --> 00:56:30.320] Yay!
[00:56:30.640 --> 00:56:32.400] I know, I know.
[00:56:32.400 --> 00:56:41.600] I've been resting and like, and just like very intentionally just chilling the fuck out, like a whole lot, and like keeping my calendar pretty chill.
[00:56:41.600 --> 00:56:52.720] And knowing that like I have that much agency over my own body, which like I know, but until you like really need to experience and do, it's a whole thing.
[00:56:52.720 --> 00:56:55.920] And that makes me really proud of myself of that.
[00:56:55.920 --> 00:57:02.960] I have done some things that have had real measurable changes in my health over the past couple of months.
[00:57:02.960 --> 00:57:04.720] And it makes me feel very boss.
[00:57:05.040 --> 00:57:08.080] Ooh, we need to do a whole episode on this too.
[00:57:08.080 --> 00:57:14.160] This episode's about brainstorming all the other things we're going to talk about over the next few weeks.
[00:57:14.480 --> 00:57:14.960] Right?
[00:57:14.960 --> 00:57:15.520] What about you?
[00:57:15.520 --> 00:57:17.280] What's making you feel most boss?
[00:57:17.600 --> 00:57:20.640] Okay, so I took a quick trip down to Oklahoma City.
[00:57:20.640 --> 00:57:24.160] I live in Detroit or in the suburbs of Detroit right now.
[00:57:24.160 --> 00:57:29.040] And I took a quick trip to Oklahoma City for a client meeting a couple of weeks ago.
[00:57:29.040 --> 00:57:33.680] And it made me feel so bossed to just be able to fly in for a client meeting.
[00:57:33.680 --> 00:57:37.280] It's been so long since I've done that because of COVID.
[00:57:37.280 --> 00:57:46.560] And then I ended up having the best weekend ever on like a personal level with my sister and my brother and my dad and my parents.
[00:57:46.560 --> 00:57:51.440] And my dad taught me how to really use a slingshot.
[00:57:51.760 --> 00:57:53.040] And I have been doing that.
[00:57:53.200 --> 00:57:55.920] That feels like such a Kathleen skill to have.
[00:57:55.920 --> 00:57:58.000] That is right up your alley.
[00:57:58.320 --> 00:57:59.440] I know.
[00:57:59.440 --> 00:57:59.960] I know.
[00:57:59.960 --> 00:58:03.560] I'm going to send you a reel I made on Instagram since you're not on Instagram anymore.
[00:57:59.680 --> 00:58:06.280] But I am so into shooting a slingshot.
[00:58:07.160 --> 00:58:07.720] Yeah.
[00:58:08.040 --> 00:58:09.240] And it's making me feel boss.
[00:58:09.640 --> 00:58:12.360] So, I mean, the trip made me feel really boss.
[00:58:12.360 --> 00:58:14.200] And then, like, the meeting went really well.
[00:58:14.200 --> 00:58:18.120] It was an annual planning session with a restaurant group that is one of my clients.
[00:58:18.280 --> 00:58:20.280] They own about like six or seven restaurants.
[00:58:20.280 --> 00:58:24.600] And so, really getting into that was, it felt so good.
[00:58:24.600 --> 00:58:25.880] It felt so boss.
[00:58:25.880 --> 00:58:28.200] But then, yeah, the slingshot.
[00:58:28.520 --> 00:58:32.440] I mean, real badass.
[00:58:32.760 --> 00:58:33.880] Of course, it is.
[00:58:33.880 --> 00:58:34.680] I love that.
[00:58:34.680 --> 00:58:35.480] Congrats.
[00:58:36.040 --> 00:58:38.120] A new tool in your tool belt.
[00:58:38.120 --> 00:58:39.400] Literally.
[00:58:40.360 --> 00:58:42.920] Literally in my tool belt.
[00:58:43.560 --> 00:58:44.440] All right, good.
[00:58:44.440 --> 00:58:48.680] And I love that, Kathleen.
[00:58:49.960 --> 00:58:56.680] All right, boss, because you're here, I know you want to be a better creative business owner, which means I've got something for you.
[00:58:56.680 --> 00:59:13.240] Each week, the team at Bean Boss is scouring the news, the best entrepreneurial publications, and updates and releases of the apps and tools that run our businesses and is curating it all into a weekly email that delivers the must-know tips and tactics in the realms of mindset, money, and productivity.
[00:59:13.240 --> 00:59:15.160] This email is called Brood.
[00:59:15.160 --> 00:59:21.240] We brew it up for you each week to give you the insight you need to make decisions and move forward in your creative business.
[00:59:21.240 --> 00:59:25.720] Check it out now and sign up for yourself at beingboss.club/slash brood.
[00:59:25.720 --> 00:59:30.760] That's beanboss.club slash b-r-e-w-e-d.
[00:59:30.760 --> 00:59:33.480] Now, until next time, do the work.
[00:59:33.480 --> 00:59:34.680] Be boss.