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[00:00:00.480 --> 00:00:07.360] Look, payday is awesome, but running payroll, calculating taxes and deductions, staying compliant, that's not easy.
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[00:00:34.800 --> 00:00:38.880] And to sweeten the deal, just for listening today, you also get three months free.
[00:00:38.880 --> 00:00:41.360] Go to gusto.com slash beingboss.
[00:00:41.360 --> 00:00:45.280] That's gusto.com/slash beingboss.
[00:00:46.880 --> 00:00:54.160] Welcome to Being Boss, a podcast for creatives, business owners, and entrepreneurs who want to take control of their work and live life on their own terms.
[00:00:54.160 --> 00:01:10.640] I'm your host, Emily Thompson, and in this episode, I'm joined by Shawanda Mason and Jennifer Holder, nonprofit co-founders, to talk about the mindset shifts of creating free offerings for your audience and engaging with free offerings as a consumer.
[00:01:10.640 --> 00:01:16.480] You can find all the tools, books, and links we reference on the show notes at www.beingboss.club.
[00:01:16.480 --> 00:01:21.680] And if you like this episode, be sure to subscribe to this show and share us with a friend.
[00:01:23.600 --> 00:01:33.120] Whether you're a full-time boss or dabbling in a side hustle, learning from those who have already been there done that is a powerful way to give you a leg up on your own journey.
[00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:47.440] To help you gather those lessons and inspiration, cue up an episode of the Side Hustle Pro Podcast, hosted by Nikayla Matthews Okome, brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals.
[00:01:47.440 --> 00:02:09.640] Join host Nikayla to learn actionable strategies to start small and get going, wherever and whoever you are, as she interviews inspiring black women entrepreneurs like Ashley Reynolds in episode number 309 and a conversation about how Ashley launched and grew the popular stationery brand Cloth and Paper, a special one for all of you Planner 11 bosses out there.
[00:02:09.640 --> 00:02:13.880] Listen to Side Hustle Pro wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:02:16.760 --> 00:02:19.800] Shawanda Mason is an entrepreneur and food writer.
[00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:24.520] In 2010, she created the food-inspired lifestyle site, Eat, Drink, Frolic.
[00:02:24.520 --> 00:02:31.400] And in 2014, she co-founded the learning nonprofit, The Chattery, and currently serves as creative director.
[00:02:31.400 --> 00:02:35.880] Jennifer Holder is operations director and co-founder of The Chattery.
[00:02:35.880 --> 00:02:42.920] And coming from a family of teachers, Jennifer's passion is to ensure that learning is available to everyone regardless of income.
[00:02:42.920 --> 00:02:49.320] She has worked in the nonprofit field for 10 years, previously working in the entertainment industry and for city government.
[00:02:49.320 --> 00:02:57.720] The Chattery is a nonprofit learning collective located in Chattanooga, Tennessee, that advocates for lifelong learning.
[00:02:58.360 --> 00:03:03.720] All right, welcome Jennifer and Shawanda to Bean Boss.
[00:03:03.720 --> 00:03:04.600] Hi.
[00:03:05.080 --> 00:03:06.520] Thanks for having us.
[00:03:06.520 --> 00:03:11.080] I'm so glad to be chatting with you both for a lot of reasons.
[00:03:11.080 --> 00:03:13.720] One, Shawanda and I always have a ton of fun together.
[00:03:13.720 --> 00:03:17.080] Jennifer, you should join us sometime.
[00:03:19.880 --> 00:03:21.560] We do have a lot of fun.
[00:03:21.560 --> 00:03:24.200] Right, these are two local bosses.
[00:03:24.440 --> 00:03:26.680] Shawanda's actually been on the show before.
[00:03:26.680 --> 00:03:27.640] I pulled it up.
[00:03:27.640 --> 00:03:31.880] That was episode 202 back in 2018.
[00:03:31.880 --> 00:03:32.680] Wow.
[00:03:33.000 --> 00:03:33.480] Yeah.
[00:03:33.720 --> 00:03:35.320] Isn't that crazy?
[00:03:35.320 --> 00:03:37.560] That kind of blew my mind when I saw that.
[00:03:37.880 --> 00:03:42.360] This is Jennifer's first time on the show, but we all live in Chattanooga, so we know each other.
[00:03:42.360 --> 00:03:44.360] And Shawanda and I like to have brunch.
[00:03:44.960 --> 00:03:46.880] Very long brunches.
[00:03:46.880 --> 00:03:48.880] Very long brunches.
[00:03:49.280 --> 00:03:54.880] But we're here to talk today about a couple of one thing in particular.
[00:03:55.200 --> 00:04:00.800] And if no one has been around since 2018, let's start with some intros.
[00:04:00.800 --> 00:04:04.240] So, Shawanda, I'll start with you with a quick intro.
[00:04:04.240 --> 00:04:07.440] And then, Jennifer, feel free to follow her up.
[00:04:07.440 --> 00:04:09.120] Yeah, I'm Shawanda.
[00:04:09.120 --> 00:04:11.920] I'm one of the co-founders of The Chattery.
[00:04:12.560 --> 00:04:18.000] And my official title outside of co-founder is Creative Director.
[00:04:18.640 --> 00:04:19.840] Nice, nice.
[00:04:19.840 --> 00:04:21.120] And Jennifer?
[00:04:21.440 --> 00:04:23.040] Yeah, so I'm Jennifer.
[00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:26.080] I'm the other co-founder of The Chattery.
[00:04:26.640 --> 00:04:31.200] And my official title is Operations Manager.
[00:04:31.200 --> 00:04:32.800] Nope, Operations Director.
[00:04:32.800 --> 00:04:34.400] I'm at my title.
[00:04:35.440 --> 00:04:36.480] We made them up.
[00:04:36.800 --> 00:04:39.120] We made them up, but they're hard to remember, apparently.
[00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:40.880] So, yeah, welcome.
[00:04:41.200 --> 00:04:41.680] That's all.
[00:04:42.480 --> 00:04:47.040] I actually just demoted myself from director to manager.
[00:04:48.320 --> 00:04:49.360] That's fine, too.
[00:04:49.360 --> 00:04:50.800] That's totally fine, too.
[00:04:50.800 --> 00:04:51.520] Perfect.
[00:04:51.520 --> 00:04:54.640] And what is The Chattery?
[00:04:54.640 --> 00:05:06.240] Yeah, so we are a nonprofit based in Chattanooga, Tennessee, who we focus on fun, affordable, and accessible learning experiences for adults.
[00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:18.480] And so what that means is we host classes ranging from cocktails and calligraphy to financial planning, business management, and anything in between.
[00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:19.760] Lovely.
[00:05:19.760 --> 00:05:24.080] And today we're here to talk about a topic that I'm really excited to dive into.
[00:05:24.080 --> 00:05:33.320] But before we get there, I feel like we have a really great opportunity because this show was started by co-founders, business partners who came together to do a thing.
[00:05:33.320 --> 00:05:42.840] And it's not, it hasn't been super often that I've had the opportunity to interview another pair of co-founders together.
[00:05:42.840 --> 00:05:46.680] So I'd love to hear from whoever wants to take the reins.
[00:05:46.920 --> 00:05:52.200] How it is that you two met and decided to start a nonprofit together?
[00:05:52.440 --> 00:05:55.880] Yeah, so I'll take the beginning of the reins.
[00:05:56.360 --> 00:06:05.160] So Shawanda and I met because she came to Chattanooga to tour an apartment, and I was the person giving that tour.
[00:06:05.640 --> 00:06:07.240] And so we actually met.
[00:06:07.240 --> 00:06:11.560] I was her property manager and we became friends.
[00:06:11.560 --> 00:06:18.680] And I'll say it before she does, she invited me to a party to officially establish our friendship, and I did not show up.
[00:06:19.240 --> 00:06:20.440] Wow, wow.
[00:06:20.440 --> 00:06:22.280] Wow, indeed.
[00:06:22.920 --> 00:06:26.040] I've said this before, and I'll say it again, and I sincerely mean it.
[00:06:26.040 --> 00:06:29.160] I don't know that we would have started a business together if I had shown up that night.
[00:06:29.160 --> 00:06:32.120] So there's reasons I did it.
[00:06:32.120 --> 00:06:32.680] Yeah.
[00:06:33.160 --> 00:06:45.480] And then we both separately took entrepreneurship classes here in Chattanooga basically to, I mean, we had ideas, obviously, but also to meet people.
[00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:50.360] And so we were trying to recount this the other day, right, Shawanda?
[00:06:50.360 --> 00:06:55.800] Like a few months later, we were at someone's house and I was like, hey, I have this idea.
[00:06:55.800 --> 00:06:57.240] Do you want to help me think?
[00:07:00.520 --> 00:07:01.000] Yeah.
[00:07:01.320 --> 00:07:01.800] Yeah.
[00:07:01.800 --> 00:07:02.840] It was, yeah.
[00:07:03.160 --> 00:07:13.560] We took business classes for different reasons, um, and also not together and learned a lot on how to start a business and what you need.
[00:07:13.560 --> 00:07:21.280] And as Jennifer said, we were at a friend's house, and she was like, Hey, I have this idea.
[00:07:21.280 --> 00:07:25.520] Would you be interested in like figuring it out and talking to me about it?
[00:07:25.520 --> 00:07:28.720] And so, that's sort of the genesis of the chattery.
[00:07:28.720 --> 00:07:37.120] We spent about a year in planning mode and trying to figure out what our model was going to be back and forth, non-profit, for-profit.
[00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:42.800] Um, yeah, and then launched our first class March 2014.
[00:07:43.120 --> 00:07:49.680] Wow, so as you guys were going through that year of planning, like, did it start with that first question?
[00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:57.520] Did it happen at some point along the way where you were like, Okay, we're actually doing this and we're doing it together?
[00:07:57.520 --> 00:07:59.040] Like, or you know what I mean?
[00:07:59.040 --> 00:08:06.240] Like, was it just like kind of like ideating and fun, and then there was a moment, or did it start that way, or does it still not feel real?
[00:08:08.480 --> 00:08:14.960] Yeah, so I think it's based off an idea from Brooklyn called Brooklyn Brainery.
[00:08:14.960 --> 00:08:21.520] Uh, and so when I came back to Chattanooga, I was kind of seeking out trying to figure out if something like this existed.
[00:08:21.520 --> 00:08:38.640] Um, and basically, I told my idea to a coworker at the time, and she was like, I don't, she actually said, Feel like you're stuck and you need a partner or a few partners with this.
[00:08:38.880 --> 00:08:49.040] Um, so she actually had introduced me to someone who's also one of the co-founders, um, Liz Wells, um, who was who kind of helped us ideate a little bit.
[00:08:49.040 --> 00:08:57.520] Uh, and then Shawan, when I Shawana and I's friendship progressed, it was like, oh, yeah, like, I really want her to help and like be part of this too.
[00:08:57.520 --> 00:09:05.640] So, um, yeah, I think, I don't know, it was kind of once Shawanda was like, all right, I think, I think we'll do it.
[00:09:05.640 --> 00:09:06.280] Let's do it.
[00:09:06.280 --> 00:09:09.480] But I think it just started from me asking.
[00:09:09.960 --> 00:09:20.840] Yeah, and I think Jennifer and I have a lot of similarities, which helped, but also we are different in some of our like what we like and what we don't like.
[00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:31.560] And I think that helps, you know, it helps to have like at the core to have a lot of like the same values and interests.
[00:09:31.560 --> 00:09:37.160] But, you know, as Jennifer said, her title is operations manager director.
[00:09:37.560 --> 00:09:38.840] And I'm the creative director.
[00:09:38.840 --> 00:09:43.320] And it doesn't mean that I don't like operations or she doesn't like creative work.
[00:09:43.320 --> 00:09:49.560] It's just we found how to succeed and stay in our lanes, kind of.
[00:09:49.960 --> 00:09:57.640] And I think that that's also been helpful in that, you know, in March, we're celebrating our ninth year of being a business.
[00:09:57.960 --> 00:10:04.760] And I think knowing, being very sure of who we are individually, but also together has helped us get to nine years.
[00:10:05.080 --> 00:10:05.640] Yeah.
[00:10:05.640 --> 00:10:06.840] Oh, I love that.
[00:10:06.840 --> 00:10:33.520] I think that the complementariness of your skill sets combined with the sharing of values and probably like work ethic is a little bit of a the secret sauce or it is the recipe for the secret sauce right that makes partnerships like this work yep for sure and we also try to, I mean, we're friends.
[00:10:33.520 --> 00:10:36.720] I mean, obviously, I guess, I don't know, I guess not obviously.
[00:10:36.720 --> 00:10:46.480] Maybe there are business partners who aren't like friends um but we try to like make time for like friendship and then there's time for business.
[00:10:46.480 --> 00:10:54.720] So it is difficult to separate the two because even when we are hanging out in a friend basis, we're always like, oh, that'll be a good idea for the chattery.
[00:10:55.280 --> 00:11:00.960] But we try to like make sure that we have friend time and then we have business time.
[00:11:01.280 --> 00:11:02.720] Yeah, love that.
[00:11:02.720 --> 00:11:03.200] Okay.
[00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:09.040] Then do you guys have any advice for anyone who may be seeking a partner?
[00:11:09.040 --> 00:11:18.960] And so whether this is, you know, Jennifer, I actually love that you said that someone recommended it to you as a way for you to get unstuck very early in the process.
[00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:25.840] But I think there's also opportunities along the way to pick up a partner as you are growing and doing the thing.
[00:11:25.840 --> 00:11:32.000] But do either of you have any advice for someone who may be seeking out a partner for whatever reason?
[00:11:32.640 --> 00:11:44.880] Yeah, I think being very, very clear about what you want because I, you know, getting into a partnership, I mean, we're in a relationship, we're in a marriage.
[00:11:44.880 --> 00:11:57.600] And so if you are not clear about what you want and clear about your expectations, I do think that the relationship and the marriage can struggle if not dissolve.
[00:11:57.600 --> 00:12:12.800] And so I think that's something that I value and that I think people, if you want to bring in a second person, you got to be really clear about what you want and why you're bringing on another person.
[00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:14.480] Yeah.
[00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:16.400] Yeah.
[00:12:16.400 --> 00:12:22.240] And mine would be similar, similar to what Shawana said, but slightly different.
[00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:26.640] I think you have to be honest, also, like in being clear.
[00:12:26.880 --> 00:12:28.480] So that's why it's very similar.
[00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:39.400] But also be honest when you're struggling with something, or again, like we've definitely both separately been stuck on things before and talked it out together.
[00:12:39.400 --> 00:12:42.360] Or honest also with your personal life.
[00:12:42.760 --> 00:12:48.840] Sewana and I both have had, have given birth to children in the past three years.
[00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:51.720] So, and that changes everything.
[00:12:51.720 --> 00:12:58.360] And I think that's a big, that's a big thing is that you just have to be honest with what's going on, good and bad.
[00:12:58.600 --> 00:13:02.920] I think that's the only way that you can figure out a path forward.
[00:13:02.920 --> 00:13:03.480] Yeah.
[00:13:03.800 --> 00:13:05.400] All of that resonates.
[00:13:06.040 --> 00:13:11.160] Even like through my own experiences, like all those things are incredibly true from my experience as well.
[00:13:11.160 --> 00:13:15.960] And I appreciate you guys sharing that, especially considering how long you guys have been working together.
[00:13:15.960 --> 00:13:20.200] I mean, even, you know, Kathleen and I were together for six years.
[00:13:20.200 --> 00:13:25.400] You guys have went way beyond that and physically together as well.
[00:13:25.400 --> 00:13:35.080] You know, Kathleen and I were still remote, whereas you guys have both the opportunity and the responsibility, I guess.
[00:13:35.720 --> 00:13:39.800] Responsibility is not really the word, but like you're actually in each other's faces.
[00:13:39.800 --> 00:13:41.560] Yeah, right.
[00:13:42.200 --> 00:13:43.160] Quite a lot.
[00:13:43.640 --> 00:13:45.320] The peer pressure.
[00:13:49.400 --> 00:13:51.480] Yeah, yeah, that resonates too.
[00:13:51.800 --> 00:13:53.000] Yeah, right.
[00:13:54.200 --> 00:14:01.160] I do think what you said about work ethic too, you know, I didn't even think about that until you said those words, but Shwana and I do have very similar work ethics.
[00:14:01.160 --> 00:14:07.480] We take this, we take every single thing that we do very seriously and rely on each other to get it done.
[00:14:07.520 --> 00:14:12.120] Um, but again, we're honest if we didn't get it done for whatever reason and give each other grace.
[00:14:12.120 --> 00:14:15.680] But I do think, yeah, you have to have this similar work ethic.
[00:14:14.600 --> 00:14:17.920] I have a similar work ethic to my husband, too.
[00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:19.840] And if I didn't, I think I would murder him.
[00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:23.120] So, I mean, I'm sorry, I should say that the other way around.
[00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:25.440] He has a similar work ethic to me.
[00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:28.080] I am the central figure of this story.
[00:14:28.800 --> 00:14:30.480] But yeah, and I'm glad he does.
[00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:31.360] So, yeah.
[00:14:31.680 --> 00:14:33.040] Yeah, it's important.
[00:14:33.040 --> 00:14:36.080] It's definitely important stuff for all the relationships.
[00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:41.680] And I think that you guys, what you guys have built as well is such a cool thing.
[00:14:41.680 --> 00:14:47.200] And I love that you both have done it together, obviously, in the city that we are all in.
[00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:50.800] And also, just how you've done it and why you've done it.
[00:14:50.800 --> 00:14:58.400] Again, back when Shawanda was on the show years ago, we talked about this, but I think it was so long ago we can, we can repeat and it'll be fine.
[00:14:58.400 --> 00:15:07.120] I'd love to hear a little bit more about why you opened the chattery, like why that mission was so important to you.
[00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:18.320] And part of that, too, you mentioned this lightly a second ago, is why it is that you chose a non-profit or a not-for-profit over doing a for-profit business.
[00:15:18.640 --> 00:15:20.960] Yeah, so I'll start with the why.
[00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:27.280] Um, when I moved to Chattanooga, it was 10, maybe almost 11 years ago.
[00:15:27.280 --> 00:15:28.960] I don't know what time is.
[00:15:28.960 --> 00:15:39.520] Um, and so I think we all know that, like, making friends as an adult can be difficult, especially if you have already hit certain like milestones.
[00:15:39.520 --> 00:15:46.480] You know, you've already graduated college or whatever, high school, whatever it is, or you've already experienced your first job.
[00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:49.200] Like, you've you've already had those major firsts.
[00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:53.600] And so, when you move to a new city, it's just not the easiest.
[00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:56.480] Um, and so I moved here from Atlanta.
[00:15:56.480 --> 00:16:02.760] Jennifer is from Tennessee, but had been gone for a few years and had recently moved back to the area.
[00:16:03.080 --> 00:16:05.320] And how do you make friends as an adult?
[00:16:05.320 --> 00:16:06.920] You start a business, no?
[00:16:08.200 --> 00:16:09.080] Kind of.
[00:16:10.040 --> 00:16:12.360] That's exactly what you do, everyone.
[00:16:12.920 --> 00:16:21.640] It worked in our case, but yet I don't necessarily recommend that as the first tool that you use.
[00:16:22.040 --> 00:16:30.600] But we, like Jennifer said, this the chattery is based off of an idea in Brooklyn called Brooklyn Brainery, where they are learning for the sake of learning.
[00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:32.920] And we are lifelong learners.
[00:16:32.920 --> 00:16:37.240] As we mentioned, we both took entrepreneurial shles.
[00:16:37.240 --> 00:16:46.600] And so, what could we do that where we could learn from one another, build community while we're doing it, but also there's a social aspect to it.
[00:16:46.600 --> 00:16:53.000] So, yes, while you're coming to a class and you may be learning about calligraphy or something, there is a social aspect.
[00:16:53.000 --> 00:16:58.760] And we chances, chances are you're coming to a class alone, maybe you're bringing a friend.
[00:16:59.400 --> 00:17:02.360] But we design the classes so that you can meet people.
[00:17:02.360 --> 00:17:06.200] There's space to meet people before, during, or after a class.
[00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:23.080] And that was sort of the reason why we started the Chattery: yes, we wanted to start a community and grow a community where we can learn from other hobbyists or other entrepreneurs, but also let's make this fun so that people can make friends as adults.
[00:17:23.080 --> 00:17:24.520] And that's what we've done.
[00:17:24.520 --> 00:17:26.600] And we love hearing stories.
[00:17:26.600 --> 00:17:32.040] We hear stories all the time about how people have met like a best friend in a chattery class.
[00:17:32.040 --> 00:17:42.440] And it keeps us going, honestly, because you know, when you're in, when you're in it, it's hard when you're writing grants or when you're covering a class or whatever it is that you're doing.
[00:17:42.440 --> 00:17:55.840] It's not always fun, but then you hear stories of people who have just met other friends because the chat or class has given them the confidence, I guess, to say hello.
[00:17:56.320 --> 00:18:01.360] And so, that's that's my long answer of saying why we created the chattery.
[00:18:01.360 --> 00:18:03.760] Fun and friends, that's the short answer.
[00:18:03.760 --> 00:18:30.240] Fun and friends, which is, and you know, as someone who also runs a company that is all fun and friends, but like with a very, very business sort of wedge, I totally get the feels that you get when you are when you are creating these experiences that really just help people connect to their next their next bestie.
[00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:32.880] It is kind of everything, right?
[00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:33.920] For sure.
[00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:35.280] I get that, I do.
[00:18:35.280 --> 00:18:38.160] Jennifer, right?
[00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:41.440] Well, that does happen quite often around here.
[00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:49.600] Um, then, Jennifer, maybe you can speak to the decision to do a nonprofit versus for-profit.
[00:18:49.600 --> 00:19:00.400] Yes, so as Sean said, we went back and forth quite a bit, just like trying to figure out all the different ways that we could exist.
[00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:09.840] And I think we ultimately settled on nonprofit because we want always want our classes to be as affordable as possible.
[00:19:09.840 --> 00:19:16.880] We want to have free classes, and we really want the public to be able to take advantage of our classes.
[00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:25.840] But we also value people's time and value their talents and wanted to make sure that teachers were being paid a reasonable rate.
[00:19:26.080 --> 00:19:40.520] And the truth is, if we tried to do these classes and weren't able to kind of supplement some of that income with grants or donations, they'd be like triple or four times the cost.
[00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:49.640] Or alternatively, Shawanda and I would literally have no other life and we would be doing like six classes a night at different places.
[00:19:49.640 --> 00:19:52.600] So, which we still could, you know, you never know.
[00:19:52.600 --> 00:19:57.800] But, but we, that was kind of our initial thinking.
[00:19:57.800 --> 00:20:00.360] And I think that it was a good decision for us.
[00:20:00.360 --> 00:20:06.280] I think it just depends on where people are.
[00:20:06.920 --> 00:20:12.200] And we definitely scoured to make sure that what we were creating didn't already exist.
[00:20:12.200 --> 00:20:16.280] I think sometimes that's the downfall of all businesses, but especially nonprofit sometimes.
[00:20:16.520 --> 00:20:21.640] If you think you're filling a gap that is already being filled, but maybe just not how you want it to be filled.
[00:20:22.200 --> 00:20:31.000] We definitely looked around at our, you know, quote-unquote competition, but also to see if anybody was filling this adult education space.
[00:20:31.560 --> 00:20:37.000] And I will say at the time, the only people that were was the local community college.
[00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:43.480] And within a year of us being open, maybe two years of us being open, they stopped doing continuing education classes.
[00:20:43.480 --> 00:20:46.520] So then no one was filling that gap.
[00:20:47.080 --> 00:20:50.200] So yeah, also a long answer, but there you go.
[00:20:50.200 --> 00:20:51.560] That's where we are.
[00:20:51.560 --> 00:20:52.600] No, I think that's great.
[00:20:52.600 --> 00:20:58.440] It's so good to hear the thought process behind making decisions like that.
[00:20:58.440 --> 00:21:13.720] I think that's it's a really powerful way for people to see the options that lay ahead of them because I think a lot of people would just think: if you're going to start a business, obviously it's a for-profit kind and you know you figure out the business model in that way.
[00:21:13.720 --> 00:21:27.280] But I love that you came at it from both sides of which one is going to be the best option, and you were able to find the option that apparently has been the most sustainable or at least a sustainable way moving forward for you.
[00:21:27.280 --> 00:21:29.760] So I think that's thank you for sharing that.
[00:21:29.760 --> 00:21:37.360] And I think that that gives us a really great opening for sort of the topic that we're talking about here today.
[00:21:37.360 --> 00:21:47.520] And I think that everyone hearing how you came together and why and how you started the chattery is important for understanding how it is that the two of you can lend to this conversation.
[00:21:47.520 --> 00:21:51.200] I'm very excited to hear what you have to say for sure.
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[00:22:53.760 --> 00:23:03.480] And this topic of free, what that means, how people can take advantage of it, both as you know, a provider and a consumer, all of those things.
[00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:12.040] So, as a nonprofit, offering free stuff to your community has obviously been a really important part of not only your mission, but your model.
[00:23:12.040 --> 00:23:14.840] You actually built it into how it is that you're doing things.
[00:23:14.840 --> 00:23:20.760] So, how does free at this moment play a part in what it is that you all are doing?
[00:23:21.400 --> 00:23:30.360] Yeah, so free is still a pretty important part of what we do in providing content in classes.
[00:23:30.360 --> 00:23:46.360] We try to make sure we do a couple of free things a month, whether it's an event or some type of workshop, because we do understand that while yes, we are a nonprofit, we do still have business bills to pay.
[00:23:47.080 --> 00:23:55.960] And so, we can't do everything for free because we do have to pay rent and the electricity and internet and all these other basic business needs.
[00:23:56.600 --> 00:24:08.440] But we also recognize that everyone has the right to learn, and that doesn't mean that they have the monetary abilities to learn.
[00:24:08.440 --> 00:24:17.800] And so, what that means for us is offering some free education, also offering some low-cost education opportunities as well.
[00:24:17.800 --> 00:24:26.920] And so, we sort of, I don't know, go teeter back and forth between knowing that we do need to charge for certain classes.
[00:24:26.920 --> 00:24:33.400] I mean, some classes just have, you know, they have supplies that we can't offer them for free.
[00:24:33.800 --> 00:24:36.520] But when we can and where we can, we do.
[00:24:36.520 --> 00:24:47.440] Like, for instance, you know, it's currently Black History Month, and we have a couple of free events going on because we want people to come and celebrate with us.
[00:24:48.080 --> 00:25:00.320] And so, we just try to make sure that just because we're offering something free, it doesn't devalue the person who's teaching it or us as individuals in an organization.
[00:25:00.640 --> 00:25:09.760] And so, there's like a bit of a learning curve, not only with us, but also with the community and trying to get that message across.
[00:25:10.080 --> 00:25:19.920] What I think is so interesting about this is that you are laying out a model that you all are using for your nonprofit.
[00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:34.000] And the free-ness of some of the things that you're doing is obviously a huge part of what it is that you do and a really integral or as a really integral part of your model.
[00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:40.960] What I find most interesting about this is that it's very similar to for-profit businesses.
[00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:51.600] And I mean, think about like the webinars or workshops or like the things that for-profit businesses think of as like giving away for free.
[00:25:51.600 --> 00:26:02.000] It's for this marketing purpose, and therefore isn't really quite the same part of the model that you guys have weighted it with.
[00:26:02.320 --> 00:26:04.240] But it's still the same.
[00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:06.640] You're just thinking about it differently.
[00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:07.200] Right.
[00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:08.480] Yeah, for sure.
[00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:09.600] That is fascinating to me.
[00:26:09.600 --> 00:26:13.920] I'm gonna have to wrap my head around that.
[00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:22.880] There's some schools that thought that obviously, Shawana and I did a little bit of research for this as well because we knew what we were talking about.
[00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:32.680] But there are some interesting thoughts of if I give you this free thing, you will come back to me.
[00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:38.520] And I think, especially the internet has made that more of a thing.
[00:26:38.520 --> 00:26:55.000] I know multiple mailing lists that you can sign up for, even some of our own teachers' mailing lists that they will send you a free guide or workbook or whatever, as long as you sign up for their email list in the hopes that you will then buy something else.
[00:26:55.000 --> 00:27:03.960] And I think, you know, it is very much in our culture now, especially to do that.
[00:27:05.160 --> 00:27:17.240] And I think even though that's not tangible, really, as a product, I do, it is, as you were saying, it's a little different when it's a class.
[00:27:17.240 --> 00:27:17.960] I don't know.
[00:27:17.960 --> 00:27:20.200] I don't know how to explain that actually.
[00:27:20.440 --> 00:27:27.480] Because I also think, like you said, webinars, but webinars can be recorded and then just reused over and over again, too.
[00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:36.280] So, but when it's actually somebody's time and you're supposed to come in person and sit in front of them and listen to something, it feels a little different, I guess.
[00:27:36.280 --> 00:27:39.320] Yeah, no, it feels, there's definitely a difference of purpose.
[00:27:39.320 --> 00:27:47.320] Like what you're saying there around, you know, for-profit businesses are giving things away for free because they want you to come back.
[00:27:47.320 --> 00:27:51.160] Like they do want something from you.
[00:27:51.160 --> 00:27:57.800] Whereas your model is one where giving the free is literally just giving the free.
[00:27:57.800 --> 00:28:01.400] It is for the purpose of you learning and experiencing and meeting.
[00:28:01.400 --> 00:28:01.960] And that's it.
[00:28:01.960 --> 00:28:04.520] And if you achieve that, then high five mission accomplished.
[00:28:05.080 --> 00:28:23.760] Whereas when you're thinking about that purely for marketing purposes, for people to come back and then, you know, pay or do or whatever, then you've sort of lost them, you've lost the mission in one part of your business model.
[00:28:23.760 --> 00:28:24.480] Right.
[00:28:24.800 --> 00:28:41.120] That you guys seem to have held on to and this non-profit, I don't know, more mission-driven, um, really, what is it, like a tax designation, right?
[00:28:41.120 --> 00:28:41.600] Right?
[00:28:41.600 --> 00:28:47.760] It's kind of like that's really the biggest difference here is how it is that you file taxes, right?
[00:28:48.080 --> 00:28:52.320] Yeah, um, and I will say too, it is it's funny.
[00:28:52.320 --> 00:28:55.440] Um, and I realize now that's what you were saying.
[00:28:55.440 --> 00:29:00.640] Uh, it's funny because we do a program every year called Arts for Older Adults.
[00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:10.480] Um, and someone this year, we do it every year, we do like 20 plus classes for free for anyone who's 65 and older.
[00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:16.960] Uh, and someone this year said, This is just great marketing, this is a great marketing idea for you.
[00:29:16.960 --> 00:29:23.920] And I can't even tell you how fast, I think I like brained my neck turning to her, and I was like, Absolutely not.
[00:29:23.920 --> 00:29:28.400] And she looked at me and I said, Absolutely not, this is not marketing.
[00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:30.080] And everyone else stopped and looked at me.
[00:29:30.080 --> 00:29:43.040] And I said, I want to be clear: we believe in this, we are providing this to you because we want you to learn and we value this education, we value your time, and we value your brains, and we just want to make your life better.
[00:29:43.040 --> 00:29:44.960] And everybody was like, Okay, all right, got it.
[00:29:46.800 --> 00:29:49.280] And then, of course, I said, I mean, you can totally come back.
[00:29:49.280 --> 00:29:50.160] It's not like that.
[00:29:50.160 --> 00:29:53.760] I'm just saying, you know, but I had never ever once thought about it.
[00:29:53.760 --> 00:29:56.000] Not once had I ever thought of it that way.
[00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:56.640] Yeah.
[00:29:57.120 --> 00:30:08.760] Like on the, you know, I don't know, beneath under, like, beneath all of this, could it be used as marketing?
[00:30:08.760 --> 00:30:09.640] Well, sure.
[00:30:09.960 --> 00:30:21.560] However, throughout our nine years that the chattery has been around, we always come back to the mission that we worked really hard to come to write.
[00:30:21.560 --> 00:30:25.880] And if it doesn't help us get closer to that mission, we don't do it.
[00:30:25.880 --> 00:30:42.360] If it feels like it's going to take every bit of our soul or make us upset at one another, or it's just, it's taking us too long to come up with a certain program or an idea, we just abandon it.
[00:30:42.360 --> 00:30:43.160] And that's okay.
[00:30:43.160 --> 00:30:49.880] I think that's something that like business owners have to be comfortable with is just like abandoning an idea.
[00:30:49.880 --> 00:31:15.240] I mean, we've dropped a lot of ideas, great ideas that I think, I mean, we come up with really good ideas, but sometimes if it's not really mission-centered or it's just going to take a lot of resources, not just monetary resources, but a lot of our time, we just say no, or maybe we revisit it in a year and it might be, you know, a better, a better fit at that time.
[00:31:15.240 --> 00:31:21.320] But I think people have to get really comfortable with like just letting it go.
[00:31:21.640 --> 00:31:23.720] And I think Jennifer and I are really good at that.
[00:31:23.720 --> 00:31:25.720] We're like, you know what, this ain't going to work.
[00:31:25.720 --> 00:31:28.360] Let's just keep it moving and figure it out another time.
[00:31:28.360 --> 00:31:30.520] We'll add it to the Google spreadsheet that we have.
[00:31:30.520 --> 00:31:36.120] Yeah, we literally have a spreadsheet and it works.
[00:31:36.440 --> 00:31:38.120] Abandoned ideas.
[00:31:38.120 --> 00:31:38.760] Yeah.
[00:31:40.360 --> 00:33:23.000] Where ideas go to die yeah yeah yeah and sometimes they come back to life yeah yeah they do sometimes they just need the right time no i think this is this is such an a great mindset shift like i'm holding space for an interview but i'm probably gonna come back and listen to this later and just let my mind be fully blown because i feel like i need to like listen and pause and like chill with some of this before moving forward so if anyone is feeling to do that please do so because what what i think is really great the mindset shift that i'm seeing here between how you guys are doing it as a like under this non-profit mindset which does not mean not making money like i for anyone who but be clear yeah i just always like do you think that we volunteer 60 hours a week right like no we do not like capitalism still exists y'all so yeah anyway i'm i'm i am very glad that you said that that like i i think yeah i think non-profit like the word the phrase has like a branding problem and like in and of itself like it it appears that like okay you're just not gonna make money forever and so i'm i'm glad that you said that i think that's a part of what jennifer and i have sort of been doing um is just sort of like teaching people what a nonprofit actually is, and that it doesn't mean that, like, we don't have to pay, like i said earlier, like, we still got to pay rent here.
[00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:25.240] We have to, like, pay for things.
[00:33:25.720 --> 00:33:31.480] So, yeah, we have to have some type of cash to pay for things.
[00:33:31.800 --> 00:33:42.440] And nonprofits try to do a rebranding, sort of, and call their money-making side social enterprises.
[00:33:44.040 --> 00:33:51.080] So, there's like some nonprofits that own blimpies, for example, like they own a franchise of blimpies, and that's how they pay their employees.
[00:33:51.960 --> 00:33:54.840] That's the social enterprise side of a thrift store.
[00:33:55.480 --> 00:34:02.200] So, it is, it is an interesting, but it's still, you know, tax designation, a 501c3.
[00:34:02.200 --> 00:34:03.320] So, I don't know.
[00:34:03.320 --> 00:34:03.800] Yeah.
[00:34:03.800 --> 00:34:05.320] Yeah, that's the biggest difference.
[00:34:05.320 --> 00:34:09.240] And, well, that's the biggest like money side difference.
[00:34:09.240 --> 00:34:29.560] I hope everyone is also seeing this giant sort of mindset difference between this very mission-driven and very, as opposed to very profit-driven, and literally illustrated in this idea of how it is that you see creating things for free for people.
[00:34:29.560 --> 00:34:33.320] Like, is it for the money or is it for the mission?
[00:34:33.320 --> 00:34:42.200] And it doesn't matter what tax designation you have chosen for yourself, you can choose more or less either of those in either situation.
[00:34:42.200 --> 00:34:53.480] And I think that this is going to resonate with the creative crowd so much because most of us are so mission-driven, but are in the tax designations that teach us that profit is king.
[00:34:53.800 --> 00:35:04.680] And so, I love that it literally just is this mindset shift of, you know, free for growth versus free for nurturing.
[00:35:04.640 --> 00:35:05.160] Yeah, yeah.
[00:35:05.160 --> 00:35:06.520] I like that, Emily.
[00:35:06.920 --> 00:35:07.880] Thanks.
[00:35:08.200 --> 00:35:09.400] Thanks.
[00:35:09.720 --> 00:35:11.000] That one just came to me.
[00:35:11.000 --> 00:35:19.120] Let's get that money shirturing.
[00:35:12.440 --> 00:35:20.640] Wait, no, why is that's really weirt?
[00:35:14.440 --> 00:35:21.680] Yeah, yeah, no, no.
[00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:22.880] What is that about?
[00:35:23.440 --> 00:35:26.320] You should make that part of your email signature, though.
[00:35:26.320 --> 00:35:26.880] There you go.
[00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:27.920] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:35:28.560 --> 00:35:30.080] That's where it belongs.
[00:35:30.080 --> 00:35:31.280] Okay, perfect.
[00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:37.360] So we've talked about this sort of internal mindset shift around free, which I think is very fascinating.
[00:35:37.360 --> 00:35:48.880] And I hope that bosses are feeling little sparks of ideas of literally just how they can think about the things that they're doing for free, perhaps a little bit differently, and probably in a way that's going to feel better, I would imagine.
[00:35:49.120 --> 00:35:51.600] Because I know a lot of people are, you know, creating content.
[00:35:51.600 --> 00:35:52.800] They're showing up for things.
[00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:58.640] And when it's being done for marketing's sake, it can suck your soul really quickly.
[00:35:58.640 --> 00:36:14.560] But if you embrace that mindset shift around, you know, really it just being mission-driven and whatever comes out of it is just, you know, happy extras or whatever, I think that it's a lot easier to continue doing the thing because it feels better.
[00:36:14.560 --> 00:36:15.440] Yep.
[00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:28.800] So we've talked about this like internal mindset shift, but there's still this public situation under, I don't want to say understanding because I don't think it's actually an understanding.
[00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:36.240] This, this public conception of what free is.
[00:36:36.240 --> 00:36:48.240] And you mentioned this a little bit, but what are you seeing happening in the free things that you're offering and the people who choose or choose not to partake in them?
[00:36:51.120 --> 00:36:59.680] So if we're being honest here, I think sometimes free things are hit or miss.
[00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:13.640] And that's something, I mean, it's always in the forefront of my mind and Jennifer's mind of how we can either repurpose something or just change the marketing around it.
[00:37:13.640 --> 00:37:20.520] But, you know, people love free things and so they sign up for it and it's awesome.
[00:37:20.520 --> 00:37:27.960] But on the flip side, they love free things and they sign up for them and then they don't show up because it's free.
[00:37:28.520 --> 00:37:31.080] They haven't invested anything.
[00:37:32.200 --> 00:37:41.400] And that's sort of where we are now as business owners is dissecting what that means for our audience.
[00:37:41.400 --> 00:37:48.040] Like why, like, and we understand even with the paid things that sometimes things come up and you can't come.
[00:37:48.040 --> 00:38:04.280] Excluding those folks, why do we sign up for free things and not just a free event or an actual free workshop where you will walk away either with something tangible or some, you know, a life lesson?
[00:38:04.280 --> 00:38:09.480] Why do we sign up for things and then just forget about it?
[00:38:09.480 --> 00:38:19.720] And I think what we have to do is sort of like let people know, and I feel like we're in a weird space currently where you have to be gentle with everybody.
[00:38:20.040 --> 00:38:33.160] So how do we like gently tell people that there are people behind this free class and not just me and Jennifer, but if there's an instructor involved, they may be donating their time.
[00:38:33.560 --> 00:38:38.720] And so, how do we shift people's mindsets to that?
[00:38:38.720 --> 00:38:44.160] This is free to you, but it is not free to the people behind the scenes.
[00:38:44.160 --> 00:38:47.920] And I think the first step is like people have to care about the people behind the scenes.
[00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:49.920] Like, it's a whole snowball thing.
[00:38:50.880 --> 00:38:56.560] And I think there are folks in the world and in our audience that do understand that.
[00:38:56.560 --> 00:39:06.720] But because we don't, we haven't always valued people's time, you certainly aren't going to value a free thing.
[00:39:06.960 --> 00:39:12.080] But we have, we're not quite ready to abandon that idea because it is part of our mission.
[00:39:12.080 --> 00:39:17.200] And we do have folks that will support us, whether it's free or there's a cost.
[00:39:17.520 --> 00:39:32.160] But it's just, it's a slow learning process to let people know that free, it's free monetarily, but it is not free time-wise.
[00:39:32.560 --> 00:39:37.280] And so, getting people to care is the hill that we're currently on.
[00:39:37.600 --> 00:39:47.520] Yeah, we recently had a class with two teachers, not one, but two, and we had 20 people sign up and no one came.
[00:39:47.520 --> 00:39:48.800] It was a free class.
[00:39:49.040 --> 00:39:50.800] A single person came.
[00:39:50.800 --> 00:40:02.080] I did get an email from one person that was two tickets that said they couldn't make it due to a death, but otherwise didn't hear from anyone else at all, not even after.
[00:40:03.440 --> 00:40:12.560] And I just, you know, I sat there with teachers and I was like, I'm sorry, like, so sorry you gave all this way.
[00:40:12.560 --> 00:40:17.200] And they're like, well, it's not your fault, but it's just like a moment of cool, cool, cool.
[00:40:17.200 --> 00:40:22.240] So then the next one, we charged $10 and we had less signups, but everyone showed.
[00:40:22.240 --> 00:40:23.280] Right, exactly.
[00:40:23.280 --> 00:40:24.720] It's just fascinating.
[00:40:24.880 --> 00:40:30.920] Like, we don't want to charge, but this is this is, this also, this class had been free.
[00:40:30.920 --> 00:40:32.520] We were offering it monthly.
[00:40:32.760 --> 00:40:35.960] And we often had issues of people not showing, but they were fine.
[00:40:29.920 --> 00:40:36.680] I mean, they were fine with it.
[00:40:36.760 --> 00:40:41.160] But when the one shows, it's like, well, we're just going to change this up.
[00:40:41.800 --> 00:40:53.400] And I think if I can add to what Jennifer said, internally too, we've sort of rethought how to do free classes.
[00:40:53.400 --> 00:40:54.520] Not all of them.
[00:40:54.520 --> 00:41:12.120] I want to, you know, not all of them, but we, yes, we are a nonprofit, but we put our business hats on and we have gotten companies to sponsor classes so that it's still free or low cost for the student.
[00:41:12.120 --> 00:41:16.760] But on the back end, we are also being compensated for our time.
[00:41:16.760 --> 00:41:22.440] And the business likes that because they're getting a chance to get in front of people and not sell to them.
[00:41:22.440 --> 00:41:34.680] This isn't like an Amway or Tupperware like pitch, but like actually get in front of students who want to learn from a representative from this company on said subject.
[00:41:35.160 --> 00:41:42.600] And it's becoming an evergreen way for companies to use their sponsorship dollars with a nonprofit.
[00:41:42.600 --> 00:41:48.360] And also we're fulfilling our mission of providing a class for them.
[00:41:48.360 --> 00:41:51.800] And so we've sort of started to rethink that.
[00:41:51.800 --> 00:41:55.480] And that's something that we're growing this year.
[00:41:55.480 --> 00:41:56.840] And I'm excited about that.
[00:41:56.840 --> 00:42:01.080] But we're just sort of rethinking how we present free classes.
[00:42:01.080 --> 00:42:09.240] And sometimes when you add, you know, sponsored by whoever, people like, oh, now that company's involved, that's cool.
[00:42:09.240 --> 00:42:11.720] I'm going to come to that.
[00:42:11.720 --> 00:42:17.040] I don't know what it is about the psychology of us, but that's working.
[00:42:17.680 --> 00:42:22.880] And I will say, too, though, if no one shows up at all, we don't get those sponsorship dollars.
[00:42:24.560 --> 00:42:32.800] Like, you know, the two folks that were doing that class, yeah, I didn't, I didn't charge them because no one came.
[00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:33.200] Yeah.
[00:42:33.680 --> 00:42:37.440] And I also didn't give them, you know, any other information or anything like that.
[00:42:37.440 --> 00:42:40.960] But yeah, I mean, that does still affect our bottom line.
[00:42:40.960 --> 00:42:43.920] Yeah, but it is, it is fascinating.
[00:42:43.920 --> 00:42:58.880] Like, I don't know if people like, and definitely, like, we have, like, Shawana said, our audience, I get emails quite often of, you know, of people that paid or didn't pay and just said, like, please apologize to the teacher.
[00:42:58.880 --> 00:43:04.080] I can't make it because of X reason and aren't even necessarily asking for a refund.
[00:43:04.400 --> 00:43:08.640] They just wanted to apologize to the teacher for their time.
[00:43:08.800 --> 00:43:10.000] That has happened.
[00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:11.360] Not, I said often.
[00:43:11.360 --> 00:43:12.480] It doesn't happen that often.
[00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:13.120] I'll be honest.
[00:43:13.120 --> 00:43:14.160] I shouldn't have said often.
[00:43:14.160 --> 00:43:15.360] It happens sometimes.
[00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:19.360] But yeah, I'm just curious about everyone else's thinking.
[00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:26.880] It is kind of an interesting thing because I think too, and I'm like this too sometimes.
[00:43:26.880 --> 00:43:35.040] So if I haven't actually committed to something, if I've softly committed and it's raining, I'm probably not going to go.
[00:43:35.040 --> 00:43:40.800] But on the flip side of that, if I've softly committed and it's nice outside, I also might not go.
[00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:46.720] But if I fully committed, like I've sat there and I did an event break ticket or whatever it is, I'm going.
[00:43:46.720 --> 00:43:47.440] I don't care.
[00:43:47.560 --> 00:43:49.680] Rain, rain, shine, whatever.
[00:43:50.320 --> 00:43:52.720] Yeah, it's just, it's a different type of commitment.
[00:43:53.840 --> 00:43:54.800] I don't know.
[00:43:54.800 --> 00:43:57.520] Anyway, there's just a whole process to do that.
[00:43:57.520 --> 00:43:58.000] Yeah.
[00:43:58.320 --> 00:44:02.600] Now, this is, this is something that I'm hearing across the board.
[00:43:59.600 --> 00:44:04.840] It's something we experience here at Being Boss as well.
[00:44:04.920 --> 00:44:34.600] You know, we have a free community that is free because so many people wanted it to be free, refused to pay for the thing, and also, but also very mission-driven on this side of things of like being boss exists to, you know, well, it didn't start this way, but very quickly turned into a mission for bringing bosses together, for creating relationships like y'all's and like mining Kathleen so that we could all like do business together.
[00:44:34.600 --> 00:44:35.880] So very mission driven.
[00:44:35.880 --> 00:44:40.280] And, you know, we get asked for things, we do the things, and no one shows up.
[00:44:40.280 --> 00:44:43.960] And it's something where we have other things that are paid.
[00:44:43.960 --> 00:44:45.880] If people pay, they do show up.
[00:44:45.880 --> 00:44:50.680] And but even if they're wanting the things, they're wanting them for free.
[00:44:50.680 --> 00:44:54.280] It is does not mean that anyone's going to show up for the thing.
[00:44:54.280 --> 00:44:56.040] And I think that's, it's funny.
[00:44:56.040 --> 00:45:00.840] I wonder if like, has capitalism like ruined the value of free?
[00:45:00.840 --> 00:45:06.360] Like we can't value something unless we are definitely paying for it.
[00:45:06.920 --> 00:45:27.880] And I think there is some opportunity for everyone to sort of rethink their own, you know, mindsets around free and around supporting people who are supporting you with free things and what that means for, I don't know, even the things that we value and pay money for.
[00:45:28.120 --> 00:45:39.640] So like there could, there's opportunities for huge shifts, if we can learn to sort of reorganize value.
[00:45:39.640 --> 00:45:50.400] Settling yourself into the flow of your business from navigating a whole year of ebbs and flows to embracing the energy of each and every day, you're bound to have some ups and downs along the way.
[00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:55.840] For me, this journey of entrepreneurship is made better when my space keeps me focused and inspired.
[00:45:55.840 --> 00:46:05.120] As an example, my favorite way to mark the beginning and ending of the workday is to light a candle when I sit down at my desk and then blow it out when I'm done for the day.
[00:46:05.120 --> 00:46:10.720] It's a little ritual that creates boundaries and a vibe that keeps me focused and feeling cozy.
[00:46:10.720 --> 00:46:13.520] And the ritual candle that we make at Almanac Supply Co.
[00:46:13.520 --> 00:46:15.280] is my favorite for this.
[00:46:15.280 --> 00:46:29.520] In fact, my whole shop is filled with items that I've curated to create the vibe for feeling connected, in flow, and inspired with candles, crystals, and other goodies to help you create a dreamy workspace, bedside table, or bookshelf.
[00:46:29.520 --> 00:46:40.880] Come gather inspiration and check out my favorite in-stock items at almanacsupplyco.com/slash beingboss and get 15% off with code beamboss at checkout.
[00:46:40.880 --> 00:46:45.360] That's almanacsupplycode.com/slash beamboss.
[00:46:49.200 --> 00:46:50.400] That's exactly it.
[00:46:50.400 --> 00:47:03.440] I think we have to like think about what our relationship is or our mindset is around when we pay for something, whether it's $10 or $100 versus if it's free.
[00:47:03.440 --> 00:47:09.280] Like why does our mind shift so much?
[00:47:09.280 --> 00:47:11.200] Or like, why does our energy shift?
[00:47:11.200 --> 00:47:12.080] Like all the things.
[00:47:12.080 --> 00:47:15.440] And even, I mean, that's something I'm thinking about for myself.
[00:47:15.440 --> 00:47:17.600] Like, why, why does it change?
[00:47:17.600 --> 00:47:19.040] Like, what's happening?
[00:47:19.040 --> 00:47:20.560] What am I not valuing?
[00:47:20.600 --> 00:47:26.640] Or so it's a whole thing that we have to all think about.
[00:47:26.640 --> 00:47:26.960] Yeah.
[00:47:26.960 --> 00:47:32.120] And I even think, you know, if, you know, if we're going into a recession, if we're in a recession, who even knows?
[00:47:32.120 --> 00:47:52.040] This is the time when we have more of a responsibility to see what things we have available to us for free in all the many ways that we do, whether it's, you know, resources or experiences or, you know, whatever it may be, and find, refine the value in those things.
[00:47:52.040 --> 00:47:58.600] I think we have this is the time to do that, or, you know, feel free to go pay your six bucks for butter.
[00:47:58.600 --> 00:47:59.400] Right?
[00:48:02.280 --> 00:48:04.440] The butter really gets me, everybody.
[00:48:04.440 --> 00:48:06.360] The butter really, really gets me.
[00:48:06.360 --> 00:48:06.600] Yeah.
[00:48:06.760 --> 00:48:07.160] Yeah.
[00:48:08.520 --> 00:48:09.240] Love it.
[00:48:09.240 --> 00:48:09.640] Okay.
[00:48:09.640 --> 00:48:12.040] Then I would love to hear from you too.
[00:48:12.040 --> 00:48:24.840] If you have any thoughts on how it is that folks should, that consumers maybe have the opportunity to shift their mindset around free offerings.
[00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:36.280] Because I feel like that's just as much as we should probably think more free stuff being mission driven on the business owner side.
[00:48:36.280 --> 00:48:41.720] I think from the consumer side, there's probably even more of an opportunity.
[00:48:42.280 --> 00:48:43.480] What do you think?
[00:48:43.480 --> 00:48:57.960] Yeah, I definitely think that for consumers, even if it's like a huge corporation and they're offering you something free, someone still had to design said work workbook or webinar or whatever it is.
[00:48:57.960 --> 00:49:17.840] And I think once we start realizing that there are people behind every free thing that you get, even you know, when you used to go to the mall in the 90s and like the free perfume samples, well, sure, they're free for us, but like there's still a person there squirting you with perfume when you walk by or handing you samples.
[00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:33.280] And I think we have to like go back to that old school mentality where it's like there's still someone in their perfume section, like designing whatever it is that you're giving away for free, whether it's a two-person nonprofit like us or whether you're a part of a big corporation.
[00:49:33.280 --> 00:49:43.600] We have to start, I think, at that level, we're all on the same playing field in the sense that there's still someone designing it, teaching it, whatever it is.
[00:49:43.600 --> 00:50:01.200] And I think the moment consumers realize that this free product was still made by someone, then we can have like a further conversation about the value of free or the not so valuable concept of free.
[00:50:01.520 --> 00:50:07.600] It's interesting too, because you know, I think Jennifer, you brought up commitments earlier.
[00:50:07.600 --> 00:50:14.800] And I also think about you know, almost the inundation that we all experience of free these days as well.
[00:50:14.800 --> 00:50:20.480] Like you walk into Sephora or wherever, and it's not going to be one perfume, it's going to be like four.
[00:50:20.480 --> 00:50:24.240] Yeah, right.
[00:50:24.240 --> 00:50:32.720] Or, you know, when it comes to, you know, options in classes, you see that there are four, you're going to sign up for all four of them because they're all free.
[00:50:32.720 --> 00:50:36.880] Of course, you're going to, and then you actually can only make one of them if that.
[00:50:37.200 --> 00:50:39.520] Or, you know, even think online content.
[00:50:39.520 --> 00:50:47.520] Let's say you have 47 blog posts at your disposal here and you end up not reading a single one of them, whatever it may be.
[00:50:47.520 --> 00:51:11.640] I think there's also an opportunity, and it's not going to be easy because complete inundation of being significantly more intentional with your commitments in general and actually showing up in the places where you intentionally set those commitments so that you can get the value of the free that you are most interested in taking part in.
[00:51:11.640 --> 00:51:12.440] Yep.
[00:51:12.440 --> 00:51:14.440] I think that's exactly it, too.
[00:51:14.440 --> 00:51:18.680] Like, consumers have to also value themselves.
[00:51:18.680 --> 00:51:19.160] Right.
[00:51:20.120 --> 00:51:35.160] And until they do, you know, I don't know that any change will happen, but it's everyone, we all have a responsibility to value ourselves and be more intentional about where we spend our time.
[00:51:35.160 --> 00:51:46.360] And if you're going to sit and, like Jennifer said, fill out the event right thing, you put in your email address, how many tickets, like it's all these things that you're committing to, they're going to send you emails to remind you.
[00:51:46.360 --> 00:51:57.720] It's like that, you know, granted, it may have only taken you three minutes to do it, but like you could also, I don't know, make a cup of coffee in three minutes instead of filling out a ticket for an event that you're never going to show up to.
[00:51:57.720 --> 00:52:04.600] So I think we have to like reprioritize to like what's important to us and me included.
[00:52:04.920 --> 00:52:15.560] I think we are all trying to figure out, I don't know, being better, I don't know, having better intentions on how we want to spend our time.
[00:52:15.880 --> 00:52:16.760] Right.
[00:52:17.080 --> 00:52:24.520] That's something this past weekend, one of my friends was within spinning distance.
[00:52:24.520 --> 00:52:28.280] I mean, they were like two hours away, but they actually live in LA.
[00:52:29.240 --> 00:52:40.600] And Walter and I went back and forth of like whether or not to surprise her on Sunday and like whether we would, my husband Walter, like if we would take our one-year-old with us or if it just be me or just him or should we go at all?
[00:52:40.600 --> 00:52:47.840] And then ultimately we decided to go because I've been thinking a lot about time and my time and how I want to spend my life.
[00:52:47.840 --> 00:52:57.760] And do I want to spend it at home being like, oh, I wish we had gone or do I want to spend it, you know, driving five hours round trip to see my friends for a few hours?
[00:52:57.760 --> 00:52:59.040] Do I, you know?
[00:52:59.440 --> 00:53:10.320] And so I'm trying to also reprioritize that personally, as Shawanda was saying too, about like it's helping us to look at how we spend our time.
[00:53:10.800 --> 00:53:16.240] And now I'm just thinking of all the little things, like all the times that I'm like, well, why does I not go because it was raining?
[00:53:16.240 --> 00:53:17.280] That's my friends.
[00:53:17.280 --> 00:53:20.000] I've never seen, you know, like that kind of thing.
[00:53:20.720 --> 00:53:22.880] Life is short, things like that.
[00:53:23.840 --> 00:53:30.400] But I do think, I do think it's, you know, how your own value, exactly what Shawanda said.
[00:53:30.400 --> 00:53:31.520] It's your own value.
[00:53:31.520 --> 00:53:33.600] Like, what do you value?
[00:53:34.160 --> 00:53:38.080] And that'll help you, I feel like, be a more empathetic person.
[00:53:38.080 --> 00:53:44.880] If you can understand what you value, you would also understand what other people value and appreciate their time more.
[00:53:45.360 --> 00:53:46.320] Full circle thing.
[00:53:46.320 --> 00:53:51.440] It's going to take a lot of time and talent and patience, though, to get there.
[00:53:51.680 --> 00:53:52.320] Yeah.
[00:53:53.280 --> 00:53:54.160] Maybe not talent.
[00:53:54.160 --> 00:53:55.440] I don't know why I said that word.
[00:53:56.400 --> 00:53:57.680] No, that's fascinating.
[00:53:57.920 --> 00:53:59.280] No, it is talent too.
[00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:00.480] It's the experience.
[00:54:00.480 --> 00:54:04.960] It's, you know, everything you've put into being in that place in that moment.
[00:54:05.520 --> 00:54:14.640] I think this is all incredibly fascinating to me because, like I said, I feel like we've all experienced this in our own ways.
[00:54:14.640 --> 00:54:23.200] I also just want to, like, I feel like we did just do, well, I feel like I did a little bit of a Grite Fest around people who sign up for friends and don't attend.
[00:54:23.160 --> 00:54:33.000] Um, and in general, I love the Being Boss community a ton, a ton, and lots of people show up to things all the time, but like sometimes less so.
[00:54:29.920 --> 00:54:33.560] Right.
[00:54:35.080 --> 00:54:40.600] Like, we love, and we're not going to be like angry that you didn't come.
[00:54:40.600 --> 00:54:47.320] It's just kind of disappointing for when we have when we've put in a lot of energy.
[00:54:47.320 --> 00:54:58.040] And especially, like Shawana said, we love to be reminded of people making friends or learning something or completely changing their lives because we have these moments where people don't show up.
[00:54:58.040 --> 00:55:00.520] And so, we have to have that balance.
[00:55:00.520 --> 00:55:04.840] Um, and so it'd be great if people just let us know why they didn't come.
[00:55:04.840 --> 00:55:06.840] It's that simple, I think.
[00:55:06.840 --> 00:55:32.280] Yeah, yeah, or just I, yeah, or just come be a part of things in general because, well, and I think a lot of it too is we both on you know, each side of the fence that we're on value communities and value the missions and do the things to provide the things in ways that are free.
[00:55:32.280 --> 00:55:41.160] Um, and then there is like this return of energy that is needed to keep doing them, right?
[00:55:41.160 --> 00:55:52.200] And so, it just is that full circle that you were talking about earlier, and is something that I do think it sounds like from our conversation here sort of has to be tackled from both sides.
[00:55:52.200 --> 00:56:00.520] I think there's so many business owners putting out so much free stuff in the sort of desire to get more people to return, right?
[00:56:00.520 --> 00:56:20.640] So, so for marketing, for profit, all of these things that the world is inundated with all of this free stuff that the consumers have a hard time actually committing to any of it to make use of you know, those of us who are putting the free stuff out there, it's it's a wild thing.
[00:56:20.960 --> 00:56:31.360] I think, too, when there's so much free things, you it makes it difficult for consumers to figure out what's actually valuable out of the free things.
[00:56:31.520 --> 00:56:51.760] Yes, so because there's so much, that's why I think a few years ago we were like, okay, we're just gonna do X amount of free something a month because we don't want to have free stuff every night because then people are like, Well, whatever, like they're always offering something free, like I can just sign up or not show up or come the next week.
[00:56:51.760 --> 00:57:03.200] Um, and I think there is still an importance of offering free things so that you give people access to your community, but you also open it up to folks who can't pay for it.
[00:57:03.200 --> 00:57:14.000] But I think by limiting how much we do, you can value the free stuff, but it's like getting people on board to understand that there's value.
[00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:16.320] It's like a whole, it's like a rabbit hole.
[00:57:16.320 --> 00:57:27.040] Good lord, like it is or will it is you know what is absolutely fascinating in the past nine years of what we've done.
[00:57:27.040 --> 00:57:35.760] The free classes are all classes to make someone personally get basically more money.
[00:57:35.760 --> 00:57:47.520] So, which sounds interesting, like our financial education classes, our home buyer classes, our resume building classes, our interview classes, interview skills for you know, for getting a new job.
[00:57:47.520 --> 00:57:58.080] They all, anytime we have tried to charge for those, um, almost anytime, that people don't sign up or charge or charge, you know, like $15 or higher.
[00:57:58.080 --> 00:58:01.320] Yeah, um, people don't, people don't sign up.
[00:57:59.840 --> 00:58:05.240] And I think it's interesting, it just all goes back to that valuing yourself.
[00:58:05.400 --> 00:58:12.120] Like, you just can pay $10 to learn interview skills because that's going to help you get a job.
[00:58:13.320 --> 00:58:16.600] But people don't always want to do that.
[00:58:16.920 --> 00:58:20.600] And maybe, and maybe, and that could go back to maybe they can't afford it because they're looking for a job.
[00:58:20.600 --> 00:58:21.320] So, don't get me wrong.
[00:58:21.320 --> 00:58:23.880] There's also, but guess what?
[00:58:24.280 --> 00:58:26.760] The chattery also has a scholarship fund.
[00:58:26.760 --> 00:58:36.840] So, if you see a class that you want to take and it does cost money, you can submit an inquiry to us to have it paid for.
[00:58:37.320 --> 00:58:39.480] And we do form.
[00:58:39.480 --> 00:58:43.800] And actually, we've had a ton of people fill it out and no one's used.
[00:58:43.800 --> 00:58:45.960] Like, we've only, we've had very few people actually use it.
[00:58:45.960 --> 00:58:48.840] Like, I respond and I'm like, here's your code.
[00:58:48.840 --> 00:58:50.200] You can do whatever you want.
[00:58:50.200 --> 00:58:55.960] And maybe that goes back to what Emily was saying that maybe there's just too many options at that point.
[00:58:56.840 --> 00:59:00.360] Like, I got to use it for the exact right thing.
[00:59:00.440 --> 00:59:01.800] Like, no, just use it.
[00:59:01.800 --> 00:59:02.440] That's fine.
[00:59:02.440 --> 00:59:03.560] Just use it.
[00:59:04.120 --> 00:59:05.560] Just learn.
[00:59:06.200 --> 00:59:09.480] Well, this has been such a nice chat with you two.
[00:59:09.480 --> 00:59:12.280] I think this has me thinking about a whole lot of things.
[00:59:12.280 --> 00:59:15.480] And now it's in the boss's brains.
[00:59:15.480 --> 00:59:20.440] So if anyone's listening to this and you're like, I've got ideas, shoot us an email for sure.
[00:59:20.440 --> 00:59:21.800] We'd love to hear them.
[00:59:22.440 --> 00:59:29.880] Because I think that this is, I think this is a potential sort of evolution for fixing some stuff in the world.
[00:59:29.880 --> 00:59:33.560] And I don't know what exactly, but it feels like an important shift we all need to make.
[00:59:33.560 --> 00:59:34.120] How about that?
[00:59:34.120 --> 00:59:34.360] Yes.
[00:59:34.360 --> 00:59:34.600] Yeah.
[00:59:34.600 --> 00:59:39.960] Well, I think if you, I think if you value yourself and you value other people, that could fix pretty much everything.
[00:59:39.920 --> 00:59:47.840] But fact that might just solve it, but yeah, I don't know.
[00:59:47.840 --> 00:59:50.480] Shawanda and I are still trying to figure that out for ourselves.
[00:59:52.000 --> 00:59:54.000] I'm sorry, I didn't mean to love you in there, Shawanda.
[00:59:54.240 --> 00:59:54.640] Thanks.
[00:59:54.640 --> 00:59:57.280] I'm still trying to sell that if I cannot figure that out for myself.
[01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:00.640] Lovely.
[01:00:00.640 --> 01:00:01.280] Okay, perfect.
[01:00:01.280 --> 01:00:05.600] And I have a actually two more questions for you.
[01:00:05.600 --> 01:00:12.640] First, if people are interested in the chattery and what it is that you guys are doing, how do they find you on the internets?
[01:00:12.640 --> 01:00:18.240] Yes, we are on the internet at thechattery.org, chattery.org.
[01:00:18.480 --> 01:00:23.200] We're also on Facebook and Instagram at thechattery.
[01:00:23.200 --> 01:00:24.240] Wonderful.
[01:00:24.240 --> 01:00:26.640] And my last question for you.
[01:00:26.640 --> 01:00:36.080] Actually, no, before even that, if you are a member of the Beating Boss Clubhouse, you have Chattery class access too.
[01:00:36.240 --> 01:00:37.520] I just want to throw that out there.
[01:00:37.520 --> 01:00:46.320] So that is the paid version of the Beating Boss community where people show up to stuff all the time because they're paying for it.
[01:00:47.040 --> 01:01:00.240] And one of the perks we have in there is that we have sort of a fund with you guys so that bosses can sign up for in-person or online classes to come take them.
[01:01:00.240 --> 01:01:02.880] And sometimes because it's free, they don't show up.
[01:01:03.840 --> 01:01:08.560] I think is also a thing because it's free for them, though I'm paying for it.
[01:01:09.840 --> 01:01:11.200] Yeah, right.
[01:01:11.840 --> 01:01:18.240] Hey, the reason I showed it online is that we record it so everyone watches it later, right?
[01:01:18.560 --> 01:01:20.000] Yes, of course they do.
[01:01:20.640 --> 01:01:21.360] Of course they do.
[01:01:21.920 --> 01:01:25.200] I've been watching some kids' cartoons and they always pause.
[01:01:25.520 --> 01:01:27.200] Everyone's thinking, right?
[01:01:27.520 --> 01:01:29.760] I'm just like, are kids supposed to be screaming?
[01:01:29.960 --> 01:01:30.520] Right.
[01:01:31.240 --> 01:01:31.720] Yeah.
[01:01:32.040 --> 01:01:32.440] Yeah.
[01:01:32.440 --> 01:01:34.600] Bosses scream right, please.
[01:01:34.600 --> 01:01:35.080] Right.
[01:01:36.040 --> 01:01:36.760] For sure.
[01:01:36.760 --> 01:01:43.560] So, if anyone is interested, or if you are already a member of the clubhouse and you did not know that was a thing, it is.
[01:01:43.800 --> 01:01:56.200] And if you want to come take part of those as part of what we do at Being Boss, you have access to that in the Being Boss Clubhouse, which is part of the community beingboss.club/slash community.
[01:01:56.200 --> 01:02:02.600] And my last question for you both, and one of you gets to hear this first.
[01:02:03.560 --> 01:02:05.880] Jennifer, I'll let you do it first.
[01:02:05.880 --> 01:02:09.320] What makes you feel most boss these days?
[01:02:09.320 --> 01:02:19.480] Well, honestly, when I have time to be boss, when I have time, it makes me feel the most boss.
[01:02:19.640 --> 01:02:24.920] When I just have time to get through my to-do list or wash clothes or whatever it is.
[01:02:25.560 --> 01:02:28.520] But going back to time, that makes me feel the most boss.
[01:02:28.840 --> 01:02:29.400] Yeah.
[01:02:29.800 --> 01:02:30.760] Nice.
[01:02:30.760 --> 01:02:35.480] Shawanda, you got the treat of being able to think about it for 15 seconds.
[01:02:35.800 --> 01:02:36.600] Exactly.
[01:02:36.760 --> 01:02:39.000] What's making you feel most boss?
[01:02:39.880 --> 01:02:46.520] I think right now what's making me feel most boss is the ability to be flexible.
[01:02:46.760 --> 01:02:57.160] It's sort of the same as Jennifer as far as time, but I really do feel sort of like a badass because if I need to start my day at 10, I can.
[01:02:57.160 --> 01:03:03.800] If I need to, you know, not work in the morning and work at five o'clock because I want to, I can.
[01:03:03.800 --> 01:03:12.680] And I think just the flexibility of what this job offers is what makes me feel the most boss, to be completely honest.
[01:03:12.680 --> 01:03:14.120] It's just that.
[01:03:14.440 --> 01:03:15.000] Love it.
[01:03:15.360 --> 01:03:22.960] Time or agency over time, I do think is quite the perk that we all have.
[01:03:22.960 --> 01:03:24.000] It is for sure.
[01:03:24.320 --> 01:03:27.520] If I want to have a cocktail at two o'clock, I can.
[01:03:27.520 --> 01:03:27.760] Right?
[01:03:27.760 --> 01:03:30.080] Does that mean you're coming over for a cocktail?
[01:03:30.720 --> 01:03:32.400] Is that what's happening right now?
[01:03:32.400 --> 01:03:33.920] Because I love that for us.
[01:03:34.240 --> 01:03:36.000] Yeah, okay, perfect.
[01:03:36.240 --> 01:03:38.480] I'm walking distance to milk and honey.
[01:03:38.880 --> 01:03:40.000] Mezcla is down there.
[01:03:40.000 --> 01:03:41.040] We can have what you want.
[01:03:41.040 --> 01:03:45.200] Margaritas, mimosas, all things are around.
[01:03:45.520 --> 01:03:46.000] Perfect.
[01:03:48.560 --> 01:03:49.840] Cocktail suicide.
[01:03:52.080 --> 01:03:53.440] Maybe less so.
[01:03:53.680 --> 01:03:54.400] Perfect.
[01:03:54.400 --> 01:03:56.080] You two, this has been such a treat.
[01:03:56.080 --> 01:03:58.960] Thank you so much for coming and having this chat with me.
[01:03:58.960 --> 01:04:00.560] Thanks, Emily.
[01:04:00.560 --> 01:04:02.320] Yeah, thank you.
[01:04:03.920 --> 01:04:10.720] All right, boss, because you're here, I know you want to be a better creative business owner, which means I've got something for you.
[01:04:10.720 --> 01:04:27.280] Each week, the team at Being Boss is scouring the news, the best entrepreneurial publications, and updates and releases of the apps and tools that run our businesses and is curating it all into a weekly email that delivers the must-know tips and tactics in the realms of mindset, money, and productivity.
[01:04:27.280 --> 01:04:29.120] This email is called Brood.
[01:04:29.120 --> 01:04:35.280] We brew it up for you each week to give you the insight you need to make decisions and move forward in your creative business.
[01:04:35.280 --> 01:04:39.760] Check it out now and sign up for yourself at beingboss.club/slash brood.
[01:04:39.760 --> 01:04:44.720] That's beingboss.club/slash B-R-E-W-E-D.
[01:04:44.720 --> 01:04:47.440] Now, until next time, do the work.
[01:04:47.440 --> 01:04:48.640] Be boss.

Prompt 2: Key Takeaways

Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.

Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...". 

Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive. 

IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}

Prompt 3: Segments

Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.

For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)  
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion

IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
  "segments": [
    {
      "segment_title": "Topic Discussion", 
      "timestamp": "01:15:30",
      "key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
      "segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
    }
  ]
}

Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.

Prompt 4: Media Mentions

Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:

Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)  
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)

DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names

IMPORTANT: 
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
  "media_mentions": [
    {
      "title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
      "category": "Book",
      "author_artist": "N/A",
      "context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
      "context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
      "timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
    }
  ]
}

If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}

Full Transcript

[00:00:00.480 --> 00:00:07.360] Look, payday is awesome, but running payroll, calculating taxes and deductions, staying compliant, that's not easy.
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[00:00:25.600 --> 00:00:28.320] We love it so much, we really do use it ourselves.
[00:00:28.320 --> 00:00:34.800] And we have four years, and I personally recommend you give it a try, no matter how small your business is.
[00:00:34.800 --> 00:00:38.880] And to sweeten the deal, just for listening today, you also get three months free.
[00:00:38.880 --> 00:00:41.360] Go to gusto.com slash beingboss.
[00:00:41.360 --> 00:00:45.280] That's gusto.com/slash beingboss.
[00:00:46.880 --> 00:00:54.160] Welcome to Being Boss, a podcast for creatives, business owners, and entrepreneurs who want to take control of their work and live life on their own terms.
[00:00:54.160 --> 00:01:10.640] I'm your host, Emily Thompson, and in this episode, I'm joined by Shawanda Mason and Jennifer Holder, nonprofit co-founders, to talk about the mindset shifts of creating free offerings for your audience and engaging with free offerings as a consumer.
[00:01:10.640 --> 00:01:16.480] You can find all the tools, books, and links we reference on the show notes at www.beingboss.club.
[00:01:16.480 --> 00:01:21.680] And if you like this episode, be sure to subscribe to this show and share us with a friend.
[00:01:23.600 --> 00:01:33.120] Whether you're a full-time boss or dabbling in a side hustle, learning from those who have already been there done that is a powerful way to give you a leg up on your own journey.
[00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:47.440] To help you gather those lessons and inspiration, cue up an episode of the Side Hustle Pro Podcast, hosted by Nikayla Matthews Okome, brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals.
[00:01:47.440 --> 00:02:09.640] Join host Nikayla to learn actionable strategies to start small and get going, wherever and whoever you are, as she interviews inspiring black women entrepreneurs like Ashley Reynolds in episode number 309 and a conversation about how Ashley launched and grew the popular stationery brand Cloth and Paper, a special one for all of you Planner 11 bosses out there.
[00:02:09.640 --> 00:02:13.880] Listen to Side Hustle Pro wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:02:16.760 --> 00:02:19.800] Shawanda Mason is an entrepreneur and food writer.
[00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:24.520] In 2010, she created the food-inspired lifestyle site, Eat, Drink, Frolic.
[00:02:24.520 --> 00:02:31.400] And in 2014, she co-founded the learning nonprofit, The Chattery, and currently serves as creative director.
[00:02:31.400 --> 00:02:35.880] Jennifer Holder is operations director and co-founder of The Chattery.
[00:02:35.880 --> 00:02:42.920] And coming from a family of teachers, Jennifer's passion is to ensure that learning is available to everyone regardless of income.
[00:02:42.920 --> 00:02:49.320] She has worked in the nonprofit field for 10 years, previously working in the entertainment industry and for city government.
[00:02:49.320 --> 00:02:57.720] The Chattery is a nonprofit learning collective located in Chattanooga, Tennessee, that advocates for lifelong learning.
[00:02:58.360 --> 00:03:03.720] All right, welcome Jennifer and Shawanda to Bean Boss.
[00:03:03.720 --> 00:03:04.600] Hi.
[00:03:05.080 --> 00:03:06.520] Thanks for having us.
[00:03:06.520 --> 00:03:11.080] I'm so glad to be chatting with you both for a lot of reasons.
[00:03:11.080 --> 00:03:13.720] One, Shawanda and I always have a ton of fun together.
[00:03:13.720 --> 00:03:17.080] Jennifer, you should join us sometime.
[00:03:19.880 --> 00:03:21.560] We do have a lot of fun.
[00:03:21.560 --> 00:03:24.200] Right, these are two local bosses.
[00:03:24.440 --> 00:03:26.680] Shawanda's actually been on the show before.
[00:03:26.680 --> 00:03:27.640] I pulled it up.
[00:03:27.640 --> 00:03:31.880] That was episode 202 back in 2018.
[00:03:31.880 --> 00:03:32.680] Wow.
[00:03:33.000 --> 00:03:33.480] Yeah.
[00:03:33.720 --> 00:03:35.320] Isn't that crazy?
[00:03:35.320 --> 00:03:37.560] That kind of blew my mind when I saw that.
[00:03:37.880 --> 00:03:42.360] This is Jennifer's first time on the show, but we all live in Chattanooga, so we know each other.
[00:03:42.360 --> 00:03:44.360] And Shawanda and I like to have brunch.
[00:03:44.960 --> 00:03:46.880] Very long brunches.
[00:03:46.880 --> 00:03:48.880] Very long brunches.
[00:03:49.280 --> 00:03:54.880] But we're here to talk today about a couple of one thing in particular.
[00:03:55.200 --> 00:04:00.800] And if no one has been around since 2018, let's start with some intros.
[00:04:00.800 --> 00:04:04.240] So, Shawanda, I'll start with you with a quick intro.
[00:04:04.240 --> 00:04:07.440] And then, Jennifer, feel free to follow her up.
[00:04:07.440 --> 00:04:09.120] Yeah, I'm Shawanda.
[00:04:09.120 --> 00:04:11.920] I'm one of the co-founders of The Chattery.
[00:04:12.560 --> 00:04:18.000] And my official title outside of co-founder is Creative Director.
[00:04:18.640 --> 00:04:19.840] Nice, nice.
[00:04:19.840 --> 00:04:21.120] And Jennifer?
[00:04:21.440 --> 00:04:23.040] Yeah, so I'm Jennifer.
[00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:26.080] I'm the other co-founder of The Chattery.
[00:04:26.640 --> 00:04:31.200] And my official title is Operations Manager.
[00:04:31.200 --> 00:04:32.800] Nope, Operations Director.
[00:04:32.800 --> 00:04:34.400] I'm at my title.
[00:04:35.440 --> 00:04:36.480] We made them up.
[00:04:36.800 --> 00:04:39.120] We made them up, but they're hard to remember, apparently.
[00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:40.880] So, yeah, welcome.
[00:04:41.200 --> 00:04:41.680] That's all.
[00:04:42.480 --> 00:04:47.040] I actually just demoted myself from director to manager.
[00:04:48.320 --> 00:04:49.360] That's fine, too.
[00:04:49.360 --> 00:04:50.800] That's totally fine, too.
[00:04:50.800 --> 00:04:51.520] Perfect.
[00:04:51.520 --> 00:04:54.640] And what is The Chattery?
[00:04:54.640 --> 00:05:06.240] Yeah, so we are a nonprofit based in Chattanooga, Tennessee, who we focus on fun, affordable, and accessible learning experiences for adults.
[00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:18.480] And so what that means is we host classes ranging from cocktails and calligraphy to financial planning, business management, and anything in between.
[00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:19.760] Lovely.
[00:05:19.760 --> 00:05:24.080] And today we're here to talk about a topic that I'm really excited to dive into.
[00:05:24.080 --> 00:05:33.320] But before we get there, I feel like we have a really great opportunity because this show was started by co-founders, business partners who came together to do a thing.
[00:05:33.320 --> 00:05:42.840] And it's not, it hasn't been super often that I've had the opportunity to interview another pair of co-founders together.
[00:05:42.840 --> 00:05:46.680] So I'd love to hear from whoever wants to take the reins.
[00:05:46.920 --> 00:05:52.200] How it is that you two met and decided to start a nonprofit together?
[00:05:52.440 --> 00:05:55.880] Yeah, so I'll take the beginning of the reins.
[00:05:56.360 --> 00:06:05.160] So Shawanda and I met because she came to Chattanooga to tour an apartment, and I was the person giving that tour.
[00:06:05.640 --> 00:06:07.240] And so we actually met.
[00:06:07.240 --> 00:06:11.560] I was her property manager and we became friends.
[00:06:11.560 --> 00:06:18.680] And I'll say it before she does, she invited me to a party to officially establish our friendship, and I did not show up.
[00:06:19.240 --> 00:06:20.440] Wow, wow.
[00:06:20.440 --> 00:06:22.280] Wow, indeed.
[00:06:22.920 --> 00:06:26.040] I've said this before, and I'll say it again, and I sincerely mean it.
[00:06:26.040 --> 00:06:29.160] I don't know that we would have started a business together if I had shown up that night.
[00:06:29.160 --> 00:06:32.120] So there's reasons I did it.
[00:06:32.120 --> 00:06:32.680] Yeah.
[00:06:33.160 --> 00:06:45.480] And then we both separately took entrepreneurship classes here in Chattanooga basically to, I mean, we had ideas, obviously, but also to meet people.
[00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:50.360] And so we were trying to recount this the other day, right, Shawanda?
[00:06:50.360 --> 00:06:55.800] Like a few months later, we were at someone's house and I was like, hey, I have this idea.
[00:06:55.800 --> 00:06:57.240] Do you want to help me think?
[00:07:00.520 --> 00:07:01.000] Yeah.
[00:07:01.320 --> 00:07:01.800] Yeah.
[00:07:01.800 --> 00:07:02.840] It was, yeah.
[00:07:03.160 --> 00:07:13.560] We took business classes for different reasons, um, and also not together and learned a lot on how to start a business and what you need.
[00:07:13.560 --> 00:07:21.280] And as Jennifer said, we were at a friend's house, and she was like, Hey, I have this idea.
[00:07:21.280 --> 00:07:25.520] Would you be interested in like figuring it out and talking to me about it?
[00:07:25.520 --> 00:07:28.720] And so, that's sort of the genesis of the chattery.
[00:07:28.720 --> 00:07:37.120] We spent about a year in planning mode and trying to figure out what our model was going to be back and forth, non-profit, for-profit.
[00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:42.800] Um, yeah, and then launched our first class March 2014.
[00:07:43.120 --> 00:07:49.680] Wow, so as you guys were going through that year of planning, like, did it start with that first question?
[00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:57.520] Did it happen at some point along the way where you were like, Okay, we're actually doing this and we're doing it together?
[00:07:57.520 --> 00:07:59.040] Like, or you know what I mean?
[00:07:59.040 --> 00:08:06.240] Like, was it just like kind of like ideating and fun, and then there was a moment, or did it start that way, or does it still not feel real?
[00:08:08.480 --> 00:08:14.960] Yeah, so I think it's based off an idea from Brooklyn called Brooklyn Brainery.
[00:08:14.960 --> 00:08:21.520] Uh, and so when I came back to Chattanooga, I was kind of seeking out trying to figure out if something like this existed.
[00:08:21.520 --> 00:08:38.640] Um, and basically, I told my idea to a coworker at the time, and she was like, I don't, she actually said, Feel like you're stuck and you need a partner or a few partners with this.
[00:08:38.880 --> 00:08:49.040] Um, so she actually had introduced me to someone who's also one of the co-founders, um, Liz Wells, um, who was who kind of helped us ideate a little bit.
[00:08:49.040 --> 00:08:57.520] Uh, and then Shawan, when I Shawana and I's friendship progressed, it was like, oh, yeah, like, I really want her to help and like be part of this too.
[00:08:57.520 --> 00:09:05.640] So, um, yeah, I think, I don't know, it was kind of once Shawanda was like, all right, I think, I think we'll do it.
[00:09:05.640 --> 00:09:06.280] Let's do it.
[00:09:06.280 --> 00:09:09.480] But I think it just started from me asking.
[00:09:09.960 --> 00:09:20.840] Yeah, and I think Jennifer and I have a lot of similarities, which helped, but also we are different in some of our like what we like and what we don't like.
[00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:31.560] And I think that helps, you know, it helps to have like at the core to have a lot of like the same values and interests.
[00:09:31.560 --> 00:09:37.160] But, you know, as Jennifer said, her title is operations manager director.
[00:09:37.560 --> 00:09:38.840] And I'm the creative director.
[00:09:38.840 --> 00:09:43.320] And it doesn't mean that I don't like operations or she doesn't like creative work.
[00:09:43.320 --> 00:09:49.560] It's just we found how to succeed and stay in our lanes, kind of.
[00:09:49.960 --> 00:09:57.640] And I think that that's also been helpful in that, you know, in March, we're celebrating our ninth year of being a business.
[00:09:57.960 --> 00:10:04.760] And I think knowing, being very sure of who we are individually, but also together has helped us get to nine years.
[00:10:05.080 --> 00:10:05.640] Yeah.
[00:10:05.640 --> 00:10:06.840] Oh, I love that.
[00:10:06.840 --> 00:10:33.520] I think that the complementariness of your skill sets combined with the sharing of values and probably like work ethic is a little bit of a the secret sauce or it is the recipe for the secret sauce right that makes partnerships like this work yep for sure and we also try to, I mean, we're friends.
[00:10:33.520 --> 00:10:36.720] I mean, obviously, I guess, I don't know, I guess not obviously.
[00:10:36.720 --> 00:10:46.480] Maybe there are business partners who aren't like friends um but we try to like make time for like friendship and then there's time for business.
[00:10:46.480 --> 00:10:54.720] So it is difficult to separate the two because even when we are hanging out in a friend basis, we're always like, oh, that'll be a good idea for the chattery.
[00:10:55.280 --> 00:11:00.960] But we try to like make sure that we have friend time and then we have business time.
[00:11:01.280 --> 00:11:02.720] Yeah, love that.
[00:11:02.720 --> 00:11:03.200] Okay.
[00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:09.040] Then do you guys have any advice for anyone who may be seeking a partner?
[00:11:09.040 --> 00:11:18.960] And so whether this is, you know, Jennifer, I actually love that you said that someone recommended it to you as a way for you to get unstuck very early in the process.
[00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:25.840] But I think there's also opportunities along the way to pick up a partner as you are growing and doing the thing.
[00:11:25.840 --> 00:11:32.000] But do either of you have any advice for someone who may be seeking out a partner for whatever reason?
[00:11:32.640 --> 00:11:44.880] Yeah, I think being very, very clear about what you want because I, you know, getting into a partnership, I mean, we're in a relationship, we're in a marriage.
[00:11:44.880 --> 00:11:57.600] And so if you are not clear about what you want and clear about your expectations, I do think that the relationship and the marriage can struggle if not dissolve.
[00:11:57.600 --> 00:12:12.800] And so I think that's something that I value and that I think people, if you want to bring in a second person, you got to be really clear about what you want and why you're bringing on another person.
[00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:14.480] Yeah.
[00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:16.400] Yeah.
[00:12:16.400 --> 00:12:22.240] And mine would be similar, similar to what Shawana said, but slightly different.
[00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:26.640] I think you have to be honest, also, like in being clear.
[00:12:26.880 --> 00:12:28.480] So that's why it's very similar.
[00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:39.400] But also be honest when you're struggling with something, or again, like we've definitely both separately been stuck on things before and talked it out together.
[00:12:39.400 --> 00:12:42.360] Or honest also with your personal life.
[00:12:42.760 --> 00:12:48.840] Sewana and I both have had, have given birth to children in the past three years.
[00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:51.720] So, and that changes everything.
[00:12:51.720 --> 00:12:58.360] And I think that's a big, that's a big thing is that you just have to be honest with what's going on, good and bad.
[00:12:58.600 --> 00:13:02.920] I think that's the only way that you can figure out a path forward.
[00:13:02.920 --> 00:13:03.480] Yeah.
[00:13:03.800 --> 00:13:05.400] All of that resonates.
[00:13:06.040 --> 00:13:11.160] Even like through my own experiences, like all those things are incredibly true from my experience as well.
[00:13:11.160 --> 00:13:15.960] And I appreciate you guys sharing that, especially considering how long you guys have been working together.
[00:13:15.960 --> 00:13:20.200] I mean, even, you know, Kathleen and I were together for six years.
[00:13:20.200 --> 00:13:25.400] You guys have went way beyond that and physically together as well.
[00:13:25.400 --> 00:13:35.080] You know, Kathleen and I were still remote, whereas you guys have both the opportunity and the responsibility, I guess.
[00:13:35.720 --> 00:13:39.800] Responsibility is not really the word, but like you're actually in each other's faces.
[00:13:39.800 --> 00:13:41.560] Yeah, right.
[00:13:42.200 --> 00:13:43.160] Quite a lot.
[00:13:43.640 --> 00:13:45.320] The peer pressure.
[00:13:49.400 --> 00:13:51.480] Yeah, yeah, that resonates too.
[00:13:51.800 --> 00:13:53.000] Yeah, right.
[00:13:54.200 --> 00:14:01.160] I do think what you said about work ethic too, you know, I didn't even think about that until you said those words, but Shwana and I do have very similar work ethics.
[00:14:01.160 --> 00:14:07.480] We take this, we take every single thing that we do very seriously and rely on each other to get it done.
[00:14:07.520 --> 00:14:12.120] Um, but again, we're honest if we didn't get it done for whatever reason and give each other grace.
[00:14:12.120 --> 00:14:15.680] But I do think, yeah, you have to have this similar work ethic.
[00:14:14.600 --> 00:14:17.920] I have a similar work ethic to my husband, too.
[00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:19.840] And if I didn't, I think I would murder him.
[00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:23.120] So, I mean, I'm sorry, I should say that the other way around.
[00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:25.440] He has a similar work ethic to me.
[00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:28.080] I am the central figure of this story.
[00:14:28.800 --> 00:14:30.480] But yeah, and I'm glad he does.
[00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:31.360] So, yeah.
[00:14:31.680 --> 00:14:33.040] Yeah, it's important.
[00:14:33.040 --> 00:14:36.080] It's definitely important stuff for all the relationships.
[00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:41.680] And I think that you guys, what you guys have built as well is such a cool thing.
[00:14:41.680 --> 00:14:47.200] And I love that you both have done it together, obviously, in the city that we are all in.
[00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:50.800] And also, just how you've done it and why you've done it.
[00:14:50.800 --> 00:14:58.400] Again, back when Shawanda was on the show years ago, we talked about this, but I think it was so long ago we can, we can repeat and it'll be fine.
[00:14:58.400 --> 00:15:07.120] I'd love to hear a little bit more about why you opened the chattery, like why that mission was so important to you.
[00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:18.320] And part of that, too, you mentioned this lightly a second ago, is why it is that you chose a non-profit or a not-for-profit over doing a for-profit business.
[00:15:18.640 --> 00:15:20.960] Yeah, so I'll start with the why.
[00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:27.280] Um, when I moved to Chattanooga, it was 10, maybe almost 11 years ago.
[00:15:27.280 --> 00:15:28.960] I don't know what time is.
[00:15:28.960 --> 00:15:39.520] Um, and so I think we all know that, like, making friends as an adult can be difficult, especially if you have already hit certain like milestones.
[00:15:39.520 --> 00:15:46.480] You know, you've already graduated college or whatever, high school, whatever it is, or you've already experienced your first job.
[00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:49.200] Like, you've you've already had those major firsts.
[00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:53.600] And so, when you move to a new city, it's just not the easiest.
[00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:56.480] Um, and so I moved here from Atlanta.
[00:15:56.480 --> 00:16:02.760] Jennifer is from Tennessee, but had been gone for a few years and had recently moved back to the area.
[00:16:03.080 --> 00:16:05.320] And how do you make friends as an adult?
[00:16:05.320 --> 00:16:06.920] You start a business, no?
[00:16:08.200 --> 00:16:09.080] Kind of.
[00:16:10.040 --> 00:16:12.360] That's exactly what you do, everyone.
[00:16:12.920 --> 00:16:21.640] It worked in our case, but yet I don't necessarily recommend that as the first tool that you use.
[00:16:22.040 --> 00:16:30.600] But we, like Jennifer said, this the chattery is based off of an idea in Brooklyn called Brooklyn Brainery, where they are learning for the sake of learning.
[00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:32.920] And we are lifelong learners.
[00:16:32.920 --> 00:16:37.240] As we mentioned, we both took entrepreneurial shles.
[00:16:37.240 --> 00:16:46.600] And so, what could we do that where we could learn from one another, build community while we're doing it, but also there's a social aspect to it.
[00:16:46.600 --> 00:16:53.000] So, yes, while you're coming to a class and you may be learning about calligraphy or something, there is a social aspect.
[00:16:53.000 --> 00:16:58.760] And we chances, chances are you're coming to a class alone, maybe you're bringing a friend.
[00:16:59.400 --> 00:17:02.360] But we design the classes so that you can meet people.
[00:17:02.360 --> 00:17:06.200] There's space to meet people before, during, or after a class.
[00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:23.080] And that was sort of the reason why we started the Chattery: yes, we wanted to start a community and grow a community where we can learn from other hobbyists or other entrepreneurs, but also let's make this fun so that people can make friends as adults.
[00:17:23.080 --> 00:17:24.520] And that's what we've done.
[00:17:24.520 --> 00:17:26.600] And we love hearing stories.
[00:17:26.600 --> 00:17:32.040] We hear stories all the time about how people have met like a best friend in a chattery class.
[00:17:32.040 --> 00:17:42.440] And it keeps us going, honestly, because you know, when you're in, when you're in it, it's hard when you're writing grants or when you're covering a class or whatever it is that you're doing.
[00:17:42.440 --> 00:17:55.840] It's not always fun, but then you hear stories of people who have just met other friends because the chat or class has given them the confidence, I guess, to say hello.
[00:17:56.320 --> 00:18:01.360] And so, that's that's my long answer of saying why we created the chattery.
[00:18:01.360 --> 00:18:03.760] Fun and friends, that's the short answer.
[00:18:03.760 --> 00:18:30.240] Fun and friends, which is, and you know, as someone who also runs a company that is all fun and friends, but like with a very, very business sort of wedge, I totally get the feels that you get when you are when you are creating these experiences that really just help people connect to their next their next bestie.
[00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:32.880] It is kind of everything, right?
[00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:33.920] For sure.
[00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:35.280] I get that, I do.
[00:18:35.280 --> 00:18:38.160] Jennifer, right?
[00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:41.440] Well, that does happen quite often around here.
[00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:49.600] Um, then, Jennifer, maybe you can speak to the decision to do a nonprofit versus for-profit.
[00:18:49.600 --> 00:19:00.400] Yes, so as Sean said, we went back and forth quite a bit, just like trying to figure out all the different ways that we could exist.
[00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:09.840] And I think we ultimately settled on nonprofit because we want always want our classes to be as affordable as possible.
[00:19:09.840 --> 00:19:16.880] We want to have free classes, and we really want the public to be able to take advantage of our classes.
[00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:25.840] But we also value people's time and value their talents and wanted to make sure that teachers were being paid a reasonable rate.
[00:19:26.080 --> 00:19:40.520] And the truth is, if we tried to do these classes and weren't able to kind of supplement some of that income with grants or donations, they'd be like triple or four times the cost.
[00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:49.640] Or alternatively, Shawanda and I would literally have no other life and we would be doing like six classes a night at different places.
[00:19:49.640 --> 00:19:52.600] So, which we still could, you know, you never know.
[00:19:52.600 --> 00:19:57.800] But, but we, that was kind of our initial thinking.
[00:19:57.800 --> 00:20:00.360] And I think that it was a good decision for us.
[00:20:00.360 --> 00:20:06.280] I think it just depends on where people are.
[00:20:06.920 --> 00:20:12.200] And we definitely scoured to make sure that what we were creating didn't already exist.
[00:20:12.200 --> 00:20:16.280] I think sometimes that's the downfall of all businesses, but especially nonprofit sometimes.
[00:20:16.520 --> 00:20:21.640] If you think you're filling a gap that is already being filled, but maybe just not how you want it to be filled.
[00:20:22.200 --> 00:20:31.000] We definitely looked around at our, you know, quote-unquote competition, but also to see if anybody was filling this adult education space.
[00:20:31.560 --> 00:20:37.000] And I will say at the time, the only people that were was the local community college.
[00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:43.480] And within a year of us being open, maybe two years of us being open, they stopped doing continuing education classes.
[00:20:43.480 --> 00:20:46.520] So then no one was filling that gap.
[00:20:47.080 --> 00:20:50.200] So yeah, also a long answer, but there you go.
[00:20:50.200 --> 00:20:51.560] That's where we are.
[00:20:51.560 --> 00:20:52.600] No, I think that's great.
[00:20:52.600 --> 00:20:58.440] It's so good to hear the thought process behind making decisions like that.
[00:20:58.440 --> 00:21:13.720] I think that's it's a really powerful way for people to see the options that lay ahead of them because I think a lot of people would just think: if you're going to start a business, obviously it's a for-profit kind and you know you figure out the business model in that way.
[00:21:13.720 --> 00:21:27.280] But I love that you came at it from both sides of which one is going to be the best option, and you were able to find the option that apparently has been the most sustainable or at least a sustainable way moving forward for you.
[00:21:27.280 --> 00:21:29.760] So I think that's thank you for sharing that.
[00:21:29.760 --> 00:21:37.360] And I think that that gives us a really great opening for sort of the topic that we're talking about here today.
[00:21:37.360 --> 00:21:47.520] And I think that everyone hearing how you came together and why and how you started the chattery is important for understanding how it is that the two of you can lend to this conversation.
[00:21:47.520 --> 00:21:51.200] I'm very excited to hear what you have to say for sure.
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[00:22:53.760 --> 00:23:03.480] And this topic of free, what that means, how people can take advantage of it, both as you know, a provider and a consumer, all of those things.
[00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:12.040] So, as a nonprofit, offering free stuff to your community has obviously been a really important part of not only your mission, but your model.
[00:23:12.040 --> 00:23:14.840] You actually built it into how it is that you're doing things.
[00:23:14.840 --> 00:23:20.760] So, how does free at this moment play a part in what it is that you all are doing?
[00:23:21.400 --> 00:23:30.360] Yeah, so free is still a pretty important part of what we do in providing content in classes.
[00:23:30.360 --> 00:23:46.360] We try to make sure we do a couple of free things a month, whether it's an event or some type of workshop, because we do understand that while yes, we are a nonprofit, we do still have business bills to pay.
[00:23:47.080 --> 00:23:55.960] And so, we can't do everything for free because we do have to pay rent and the electricity and internet and all these other basic business needs.
[00:23:56.600 --> 00:24:08.440] But we also recognize that everyone has the right to learn, and that doesn't mean that they have the monetary abilities to learn.
[00:24:08.440 --> 00:24:17.800] And so, what that means for us is offering some free education, also offering some low-cost education opportunities as well.
[00:24:17.800 --> 00:24:26.920] And so, we sort of, I don't know, go teeter back and forth between knowing that we do need to charge for certain classes.
[00:24:26.920 --> 00:24:33.400] I mean, some classes just have, you know, they have supplies that we can't offer them for free.
[00:24:33.800 --> 00:24:36.520] But when we can and where we can, we do.
[00:24:36.520 --> 00:24:47.440] Like, for instance, you know, it's currently Black History Month, and we have a couple of free events going on because we want people to come and celebrate with us.
[00:24:48.080 --> 00:25:00.320] And so, we just try to make sure that just because we're offering something free, it doesn't devalue the person who's teaching it or us as individuals in an organization.
[00:25:00.640 --> 00:25:09.760] And so, there's like a bit of a learning curve, not only with us, but also with the community and trying to get that message across.
[00:25:10.080 --> 00:25:19.920] What I think is so interesting about this is that you are laying out a model that you all are using for your nonprofit.
[00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:34.000] And the free-ness of some of the things that you're doing is obviously a huge part of what it is that you do and a really integral or as a really integral part of your model.
[00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:40.960] What I find most interesting about this is that it's very similar to for-profit businesses.
[00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:51.600] And I mean, think about like the webinars or workshops or like the things that for-profit businesses think of as like giving away for free.
[00:25:51.600 --> 00:26:02.000] It's for this marketing purpose, and therefore isn't really quite the same part of the model that you guys have weighted it with.
[00:26:02.320 --> 00:26:04.240] But it's still the same.
[00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:06.640] You're just thinking about it differently.
[00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:07.200] Right.
[00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:08.480] Yeah, for sure.
[00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:09.600] That is fascinating to me.
[00:26:09.600 --> 00:26:13.920] I'm gonna have to wrap my head around that.
[00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:22.880] There's some schools that thought that obviously, Shawana and I did a little bit of research for this as well because we knew what we were talking about.
[00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:32.680] But there are some interesting thoughts of if I give you this free thing, you will come back to me.
[00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:38.520] And I think, especially the internet has made that more of a thing.
[00:26:38.520 --> 00:26:55.000] I know multiple mailing lists that you can sign up for, even some of our own teachers' mailing lists that they will send you a free guide or workbook or whatever, as long as you sign up for their email list in the hopes that you will then buy something else.
[00:26:55.000 --> 00:27:03.960] And I think, you know, it is very much in our culture now, especially to do that.
[00:27:05.160 --> 00:27:17.240] And I think even though that's not tangible, really, as a product, I do, it is, as you were saying, it's a little different when it's a class.
[00:27:17.240 --> 00:27:17.960] I don't know.
[00:27:17.960 --> 00:27:20.200] I don't know how to explain that actually.
[00:27:20.440 --> 00:27:27.480] Because I also think, like you said, webinars, but webinars can be recorded and then just reused over and over again, too.
[00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:36.280] So, but when it's actually somebody's time and you're supposed to come in person and sit in front of them and listen to something, it feels a little different, I guess.
[00:27:36.280 --> 00:27:39.320] Yeah, no, it feels, there's definitely a difference of purpose.
[00:27:39.320 --> 00:27:47.320] Like what you're saying there around, you know, for-profit businesses are giving things away for free because they want you to come back.
[00:27:47.320 --> 00:27:51.160] Like they do want something from you.
[00:27:51.160 --> 00:27:57.800] Whereas your model is one where giving the free is literally just giving the free.
[00:27:57.800 --> 00:28:01.400] It is for the purpose of you learning and experiencing and meeting.
[00:28:01.400 --> 00:28:01.960] And that's it.
[00:28:01.960 --> 00:28:04.520] And if you achieve that, then high five mission accomplished.
[00:28:05.080 --> 00:28:23.760] Whereas when you're thinking about that purely for marketing purposes, for people to come back and then, you know, pay or do or whatever, then you've sort of lost them, you've lost the mission in one part of your business model.
[00:28:23.760 --> 00:28:24.480] Right.
[00:28:24.800 --> 00:28:41.120] That you guys seem to have held on to and this non-profit, I don't know, more mission-driven, um, really, what is it, like a tax designation, right?
[00:28:41.120 --> 00:28:41.600] Right?
[00:28:41.600 --> 00:28:47.760] It's kind of like that's really the biggest difference here is how it is that you file taxes, right?
[00:28:48.080 --> 00:28:52.320] Yeah, um, and I will say too, it is it's funny.
[00:28:52.320 --> 00:28:55.440] Um, and I realize now that's what you were saying.
[00:28:55.440 --> 00:29:00.640] Uh, it's funny because we do a program every year called Arts for Older Adults.
[00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:10.480] Um, and someone this year, we do it every year, we do like 20 plus classes for free for anyone who's 65 and older.
[00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:16.960] Uh, and someone this year said, This is just great marketing, this is a great marketing idea for you.
[00:29:16.960 --> 00:29:23.920] And I can't even tell you how fast, I think I like brained my neck turning to her, and I was like, Absolutely not.
[00:29:23.920 --> 00:29:28.400] And she looked at me and I said, Absolutely not, this is not marketing.
[00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:30.080] And everyone else stopped and looked at me.
[00:29:30.080 --> 00:29:43.040] And I said, I want to be clear: we believe in this, we are providing this to you because we want you to learn and we value this education, we value your time, and we value your brains, and we just want to make your life better.
[00:29:43.040 --> 00:29:44.960] And everybody was like, Okay, all right, got it.
[00:29:46.800 --> 00:29:49.280] And then, of course, I said, I mean, you can totally come back.
[00:29:49.280 --> 00:29:50.160] It's not like that.
[00:29:50.160 --> 00:29:53.760] I'm just saying, you know, but I had never ever once thought about it.
[00:29:53.760 --> 00:29:56.000] Not once had I ever thought of it that way.
[00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:56.640] Yeah.
[00:29:57.120 --> 00:30:08.760] Like on the, you know, I don't know, beneath under, like, beneath all of this, could it be used as marketing?
[00:30:08.760 --> 00:30:09.640] Well, sure.
[00:30:09.960 --> 00:30:21.560] However, throughout our nine years that the chattery has been around, we always come back to the mission that we worked really hard to come to write.
[00:30:21.560 --> 00:30:25.880] And if it doesn't help us get closer to that mission, we don't do it.
[00:30:25.880 --> 00:30:42.360] If it feels like it's going to take every bit of our soul or make us upset at one another, or it's just, it's taking us too long to come up with a certain program or an idea, we just abandon it.
[00:30:42.360 --> 00:30:43.160] And that's okay.
[00:30:43.160 --> 00:30:49.880] I think that's something that like business owners have to be comfortable with is just like abandoning an idea.
[00:30:49.880 --> 00:31:15.240] I mean, we've dropped a lot of ideas, great ideas that I think, I mean, we come up with really good ideas, but sometimes if it's not really mission-centered or it's just going to take a lot of resources, not just monetary resources, but a lot of our time, we just say no, or maybe we revisit it in a year and it might be, you know, a better, a better fit at that time.
[00:31:15.240 --> 00:31:21.320] But I think people have to get really comfortable with like just letting it go.
[00:31:21.640 --> 00:31:23.720] And I think Jennifer and I are really good at that.
[00:31:23.720 --> 00:31:25.720] We're like, you know what, this ain't going to work.
[00:31:25.720 --> 00:31:28.360] Let's just keep it moving and figure it out another time.
[00:31:28.360 --> 00:31:30.520] We'll add it to the Google spreadsheet that we have.
[00:31:30.520 --> 00:31:36.120] Yeah, we literally have a spreadsheet and it works.
[00:31:36.440 --> 00:31:38.120] Abandoned ideas.
[00:31:38.120 --> 00:31:38.760] Yeah.
[00:31:40.360 --> 00:33:23.000] Where ideas go to die yeah yeah yeah and sometimes they come back to life yeah yeah they do sometimes they just need the right time no i think this is this is such an a great mindset shift like i'm holding space for an interview but i'm probably gonna come back and listen to this later and just let my mind be fully blown because i feel like i need to like listen and pause and like chill with some of this before moving forward so if anyone is feeling to do that please do so because what what i think is really great the mindset shift that i'm seeing here between how you guys are doing it as a like under this non-profit mindset which does not mean not making money like i for anyone who but be clear yeah i just always like do you think that we volunteer 60 hours a week right like no we do not like capitalism still exists y'all so yeah anyway i'm i'm i am very glad that you said that that like i i think yeah i think non-profit like the word the phrase has like a branding problem and like in and of itself like it it appears that like okay you're just not gonna make money forever and so i'm i'm glad that you said that i think that's a part of what jennifer and i have sort of been doing um is just sort of like teaching people what a nonprofit actually is, and that it doesn't mean that, like, we don't have to pay, like i said earlier, like, we still got to pay rent here.
[00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:25.240] We have to, like, pay for things.
[00:33:25.720 --> 00:33:31.480] So, yeah, we have to have some type of cash to pay for things.
[00:33:31.800 --> 00:33:42.440] And nonprofits try to do a rebranding, sort of, and call their money-making side social enterprises.
[00:33:44.040 --> 00:33:51.080] So, there's like some nonprofits that own blimpies, for example, like they own a franchise of blimpies, and that's how they pay their employees.
[00:33:51.960 --> 00:33:54.840] That's the social enterprise side of a thrift store.
[00:33:55.480 --> 00:34:02.200] So, it is, it is an interesting, but it's still, you know, tax designation, a 501c3.
[00:34:02.200 --> 00:34:03.320] So, I don't know.
[00:34:03.320 --> 00:34:03.800] Yeah.
[00:34:03.800 --> 00:34:05.320] Yeah, that's the biggest difference.
[00:34:05.320 --> 00:34:09.240] And, well, that's the biggest like money side difference.
[00:34:09.240 --> 00:34:29.560] I hope everyone is also seeing this giant sort of mindset difference between this very mission-driven and very, as opposed to very profit-driven, and literally illustrated in this idea of how it is that you see creating things for free for people.
[00:34:29.560 --> 00:34:33.320] Like, is it for the money or is it for the mission?
[00:34:33.320 --> 00:34:42.200] And it doesn't matter what tax designation you have chosen for yourself, you can choose more or less either of those in either situation.
[00:34:42.200 --> 00:34:53.480] And I think that this is going to resonate with the creative crowd so much because most of us are so mission-driven, but are in the tax designations that teach us that profit is king.
[00:34:53.800 --> 00:35:04.680] And so, I love that it literally just is this mindset shift of, you know, free for growth versus free for nurturing.
[00:35:04.640 --> 00:35:05.160] Yeah, yeah.
[00:35:05.160 --> 00:35:06.520] I like that, Emily.
[00:35:06.920 --> 00:35:07.880] Thanks.
[00:35:08.200 --> 00:35:09.400] Thanks.
[00:35:09.720 --> 00:35:11.000] That one just came to me.
[00:35:11.000 --> 00:35:19.120] Let's get that money shirturing.
[00:35:12.440 --> 00:35:20.640] Wait, no, why is that's really weirt?
[00:35:14.440 --> 00:35:21.680] Yeah, yeah, no, no.
[00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:22.880] What is that about?
[00:35:23.440 --> 00:35:26.320] You should make that part of your email signature, though.
[00:35:26.320 --> 00:35:26.880] There you go.
[00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:27.920] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:35:28.560 --> 00:35:30.080] That's where it belongs.
[00:35:30.080 --> 00:35:31.280] Okay, perfect.
[00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:37.360] So we've talked about this sort of internal mindset shift around free, which I think is very fascinating.
[00:35:37.360 --> 00:35:48.880] And I hope that bosses are feeling little sparks of ideas of literally just how they can think about the things that they're doing for free, perhaps a little bit differently, and probably in a way that's going to feel better, I would imagine.
[00:35:49.120 --> 00:35:51.600] Because I know a lot of people are, you know, creating content.
[00:35:51.600 --> 00:35:52.800] They're showing up for things.
[00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:58.640] And when it's being done for marketing's sake, it can suck your soul really quickly.
[00:35:58.640 --> 00:36:14.560] But if you embrace that mindset shift around, you know, really it just being mission-driven and whatever comes out of it is just, you know, happy extras or whatever, I think that it's a lot easier to continue doing the thing because it feels better.
[00:36:14.560 --> 00:36:15.440] Yep.
[00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:28.800] So we've talked about this like internal mindset shift, but there's still this public situation under, I don't want to say understanding because I don't think it's actually an understanding.
[00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:36.240] This, this public conception of what free is.
[00:36:36.240 --> 00:36:48.240] And you mentioned this a little bit, but what are you seeing happening in the free things that you're offering and the people who choose or choose not to partake in them?
[00:36:51.120 --> 00:36:59.680] So if we're being honest here, I think sometimes free things are hit or miss.
[00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:13.640] And that's something, I mean, it's always in the forefront of my mind and Jennifer's mind of how we can either repurpose something or just change the marketing around it.
[00:37:13.640 --> 00:37:20.520] But, you know, people love free things and so they sign up for it and it's awesome.
[00:37:20.520 --> 00:37:27.960] But on the flip side, they love free things and they sign up for them and then they don't show up because it's free.
[00:37:28.520 --> 00:37:31.080] They haven't invested anything.
[00:37:32.200 --> 00:37:41.400] And that's sort of where we are now as business owners is dissecting what that means for our audience.
[00:37:41.400 --> 00:37:48.040] Like why, like, and we understand even with the paid things that sometimes things come up and you can't come.
[00:37:48.040 --> 00:38:04.280] Excluding those folks, why do we sign up for free things and not just a free event or an actual free workshop where you will walk away either with something tangible or some, you know, a life lesson?
[00:38:04.280 --> 00:38:09.480] Why do we sign up for things and then just forget about it?
[00:38:09.480 --> 00:38:19.720] And I think what we have to do is sort of like let people know, and I feel like we're in a weird space currently where you have to be gentle with everybody.
[00:38:20.040 --> 00:38:33.160] So how do we like gently tell people that there are people behind this free class and not just me and Jennifer, but if there's an instructor involved, they may be donating their time.
[00:38:33.560 --> 00:38:38.720] And so, how do we shift people's mindsets to that?
[00:38:38.720 --> 00:38:44.160] This is free to you, but it is not free to the people behind the scenes.
[00:38:44.160 --> 00:38:47.920] And I think the first step is like people have to care about the people behind the scenes.
[00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:49.920] Like, it's a whole snowball thing.
[00:38:50.880 --> 00:38:56.560] And I think there are folks in the world and in our audience that do understand that.
[00:38:56.560 --> 00:39:06.720] But because we don't, we haven't always valued people's time, you certainly aren't going to value a free thing.
[00:39:06.960 --> 00:39:12.080] But we have, we're not quite ready to abandon that idea because it is part of our mission.
[00:39:12.080 --> 00:39:17.200] And we do have folks that will support us, whether it's free or there's a cost.
[00:39:17.520 --> 00:39:32.160] But it's just, it's a slow learning process to let people know that free, it's free monetarily, but it is not free time-wise.
[00:39:32.560 --> 00:39:37.280] And so, getting people to care is the hill that we're currently on.
[00:39:37.600 --> 00:39:47.520] Yeah, we recently had a class with two teachers, not one, but two, and we had 20 people sign up and no one came.
[00:39:47.520 --> 00:39:48.800] It was a free class.
[00:39:49.040 --> 00:39:50.800] A single person came.
[00:39:50.800 --> 00:40:02.080] I did get an email from one person that was two tickets that said they couldn't make it due to a death, but otherwise didn't hear from anyone else at all, not even after.
[00:40:03.440 --> 00:40:12.560] And I just, you know, I sat there with teachers and I was like, I'm sorry, like, so sorry you gave all this way.
[00:40:12.560 --> 00:40:17.200] And they're like, well, it's not your fault, but it's just like a moment of cool, cool, cool.
[00:40:17.200 --> 00:40:22.240] So then the next one, we charged $10 and we had less signups, but everyone showed.
[00:40:22.240 --> 00:40:23.280] Right, exactly.
[00:40:23.280 --> 00:40:24.720] It's just fascinating.
[00:40:24.880 --> 00:40:30.920] Like, we don't want to charge, but this is this is, this also, this class had been free.
[00:40:30.920 --> 00:40:32.520] We were offering it monthly.
[00:40:32.760 --> 00:40:35.960] And we often had issues of people not showing, but they were fine.
[00:40:29.920 --> 00:40:36.680] I mean, they were fine with it.
[00:40:36.760 --> 00:40:41.160] But when the one shows, it's like, well, we're just going to change this up.
[00:40:41.800 --> 00:40:53.400] And I think if I can add to what Jennifer said, internally too, we've sort of rethought how to do free classes.
[00:40:53.400 --> 00:40:54.520] Not all of them.
[00:40:54.520 --> 00:41:12.120] I want to, you know, not all of them, but we, yes, we are a nonprofit, but we put our business hats on and we have gotten companies to sponsor classes so that it's still free or low cost for the student.
[00:41:12.120 --> 00:41:16.760] But on the back end, we are also being compensated for our time.
[00:41:16.760 --> 00:41:22.440] And the business likes that because they're getting a chance to get in front of people and not sell to them.
[00:41:22.440 --> 00:41:34.680] This isn't like an Amway or Tupperware like pitch, but like actually get in front of students who want to learn from a representative from this company on said subject.
[00:41:35.160 --> 00:41:42.600] And it's becoming an evergreen way for companies to use their sponsorship dollars with a nonprofit.
[00:41:42.600 --> 00:41:48.360] And also we're fulfilling our mission of providing a class for them.
[00:41:48.360 --> 00:41:51.800] And so we've sort of started to rethink that.
[00:41:51.800 --> 00:41:55.480] And that's something that we're growing this year.
[00:41:55.480 --> 00:41:56.840] And I'm excited about that.
[00:41:56.840 --> 00:42:01.080] But we're just sort of rethinking how we present free classes.
[00:42:01.080 --> 00:42:09.240] And sometimes when you add, you know, sponsored by whoever, people like, oh, now that company's involved, that's cool.
[00:42:09.240 --> 00:42:11.720] I'm going to come to that.
[00:42:11.720 --> 00:42:17.040] I don't know what it is about the psychology of us, but that's working.
[00:42:17.680 --> 00:42:22.880] And I will say, too, though, if no one shows up at all, we don't get those sponsorship dollars.
[00:42:24.560 --> 00:42:32.800] Like, you know, the two folks that were doing that class, yeah, I didn't, I didn't charge them because no one came.
[00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:33.200] Yeah.
[00:42:33.680 --> 00:42:37.440] And I also didn't give them, you know, any other information or anything like that.
[00:42:37.440 --> 00:42:40.960] But yeah, I mean, that does still affect our bottom line.
[00:42:40.960 --> 00:42:43.920] Yeah, but it is, it is fascinating.
[00:42:43.920 --> 00:42:58.880] Like, I don't know if people like, and definitely, like, we have, like, Shawana said, our audience, I get emails quite often of, you know, of people that paid or didn't pay and just said, like, please apologize to the teacher.
[00:42:58.880 --> 00:43:04.080] I can't make it because of X reason and aren't even necessarily asking for a refund.
[00:43:04.400 --> 00:43:08.640] They just wanted to apologize to the teacher for their time.
[00:43:08.800 --> 00:43:10.000] That has happened.
[00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:11.360] Not, I said often.
[00:43:11.360 --> 00:43:12.480] It doesn't happen that often.
[00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:13.120] I'll be honest.
[00:43:13.120 --> 00:43:14.160] I shouldn't have said often.
[00:43:14.160 --> 00:43:15.360] It happens sometimes.
[00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:19.360] But yeah, I'm just curious about everyone else's thinking.
[00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:26.880] It is kind of an interesting thing because I think too, and I'm like this too sometimes.
[00:43:26.880 --> 00:43:35.040] So if I haven't actually committed to something, if I've softly committed and it's raining, I'm probably not going to go.
[00:43:35.040 --> 00:43:40.800] But on the flip side of that, if I've softly committed and it's nice outside, I also might not go.
[00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:46.720] But if I fully committed, like I've sat there and I did an event break ticket or whatever it is, I'm going.
[00:43:46.720 --> 00:43:47.440] I don't care.
[00:43:47.560 --> 00:43:49.680] Rain, rain, shine, whatever.
[00:43:50.320 --> 00:43:52.720] Yeah, it's just, it's a different type of commitment.
[00:43:53.840 --> 00:43:54.800] I don't know.
[00:43:54.800 --> 00:43:57.520] Anyway, there's just a whole process to do that.
[00:43:57.520 --> 00:43:58.000] Yeah.
[00:43:58.320 --> 00:44:02.600] Now, this is, this is something that I'm hearing across the board.
[00:43:59.600 --> 00:44:04.840] It's something we experience here at Being Boss as well.
[00:44:04.920 --> 00:44:34.600] You know, we have a free community that is free because so many people wanted it to be free, refused to pay for the thing, and also, but also very mission-driven on this side of things of like being boss exists to, you know, well, it didn't start this way, but very quickly turned into a mission for bringing bosses together, for creating relationships like y'all's and like mining Kathleen so that we could all like do business together.
[00:44:34.600 --> 00:44:35.880] So very mission driven.
[00:44:35.880 --> 00:44:40.280] And, you know, we get asked for things, we do the things, and no one shows up.
[00:44:40.280 --> 00:44:43.960] And it's something where we have other things that are paid.
[00:44:43.960 --> 00:44:45.880] If people pay, they do show up.
[00:44:45.880 --> 00:44:50.680] And but even if they're wanting the things, they're wanting them for free.
[00:44:50.680 --> 00:44:54.280] It is does not mean that anyone's going to show up for the thing.
[00:44:54.280 --> 00:44:56.040] And I think that's, it's funny.
[00:44:56.040 --> 00:45:00.840] I wonder if like, has capitalism like ruined the value of free?
[00:45:00.840 --> 00:45:06.360] Like we can't value something unless we are definitely paying for it.
[00:45:06.920 --> 00:45:27.880] And I think there is some opportunity for everyone to sort of rethink their own, you know, mindsets around free and around supporting people who are supporting you with free things and what that means for, I don't know, even the things that we value and pay money for.
[00:45:28.120 --> 00:45:39.640] So like there could, there's opportunities for huge shifts, if we can learn to sort of reorganize value.
[00:45:39.640 --> 00:45:50.400] Settling yourself into the flow of your business from navigating a whole year of ebbs and flows to embracing the energy of each and every day, you're bound to have some ups and downs along the way.
[00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:55.840] For me, this journey of entrepreneurship is made better when my space keeps me focused and inspired.
[00:45:55.840 --> 00:46:05.120] As an example, my favorite way to mark the beginning and ending of the workday is to light a candle when I sit down at my desk and then blow it out when I'm done for the day.
[00:46:05.120 --> 00:46:10.720] It's a little ritual that creates boundaries and a vibe that keeps me focused and feeling cozy.
[00:46:10.720 --> 00:46:13.520] And the ritual candle that we make at Almanac Supply Co.
[00:46:13.520 --> 00:46:15.280] is my favorite for this.
[00:46:15.280 --> 00:46:29.520] In fact, my whole shop is filled with items that I've curated to create the vibe for feeling connected, in flow, and inspired with candles, crystals, and other goodies to help you create a dreamy workspace, bedside table, or bookshelf.
[00:46:29.520 --> 00:46:40.880] Come gather inspiration and check out my favorite in-stock items at almanacsupplyco.com/slash beingboss and get 15% off with code beamboss at checkout.
[00:46:40.880 --> 00:46:45.360] That's almanacsupplycode.com/slash beamboss.
[00:46:49.200 --> 00:46:50.400] That's exactly it.
[00:46:50.400 --> 00:47:03.440] I think we have to like think about what our relationship is or our mindset is around when we pay for something, whether it's $10 or $100 versus if it's free.
[00:47:03.440 --> 00:47:09.280] Like why does our mind shift so much?
[00:47:09.280 --> 00:47:11.200] Or like, why does our energy shift?
[00:47:11.200 --> 00:47:12.080] Like all the things.
[00:47:12.080 --> 00:47:15.440] And even, I mean, that's something I'm thinking about for myself.
[00:47:15.440 --> 00:47:17.600] Like, why, why does it change?
[00:47:17.600 --> 00:47:19.040] Like, what's happening?
[00:47:19.040 --> 00:47:20.560] What am I not valuing?
[00:47:20.600 --> 00:47:26.640] Or so it's a whole thing that we have to all think about.
[00:47:26.640 --> 00:47:26.960] Yeah.
[00:47:26.960 --> 00:47:32.120] And I even think, you know, if, you know, if we're going into a recession, if we're in a recession, who even knows?
[00:47:32.120 --> 00:47:52.040] This is the time when we have more of a responsibility to see what things we have available to us for free in all the many ways that we do, whether it's, you know, resources or experiences or, you know, whatever it may be, and find, refine the value in those things.
[00:47:52.040 --> 00:47:58.600] I think we have this is the time to do that, or, you know, feel free to go pay your six bucks for butter.
[00:47:58.600 --> 00:47:59.400] Right?
[00:48:02.280 --> 00:48:04.440] The butter really gets me, everybody.
[00:48:04.440 --> 00:48:06.360] The butter really, really gets me.
[00:48:06.360 --> 00:48:06.600] Yeah.
[00:48:06.760 --> 00:48:07.160] Yeah.
[00:48:08.520 --> 00:48:09.240] Love it.
[00:48:09.240 --> 00:48:09.640] Okay.
[00:48:09.640 --> 00:48:12.040] Then I would love to hear from you too.
[00:48:12.040 --> 00:48:24.840] If you have any thoughts on how it is that folks should, that consumers maybe have the opportunity to shift their mindset around free offerings.
[00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:36.280] Because I feel like that's just as much as we should probably think more free stuff being mission driven on the business owner side.
[00:48:36.280 --> 00:48:41.720] I think from the consumer side, there's probably even more of an opportunity.
[00:48:42.280 --> 00:48:43.480] What do you think?
[00:48:43.480 --> 00:48:57.960] Yeah, I definitely think that for consumers, even if it's like a huge corporation and they're offering you something free, someone still had to design said work workbook or webinar or whatever it is.
[00:48:57.960 --> 00:49:17.840] And I think once we start realizing that there are people behind every free thing that you get, even you know, when you used to go to the mall in the 90s and like the free perfume samples, well, sure, they're free for us, but like there's still a person there squirting you with perfume when you walk by or handing you samples.
[00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:33.280] And I think we have to like go back to that old school mentality where it's like there's still someone in their perfume section, like designing whatever it is that you're giving away for free, whether it's a two-person nonprofit like us or whether you're a part of a big corporation.
[00:49:33.280 --> 00:49:43.600] We have to start, I think, at that level, we're all on the same playing field in the sense that there's still someone designing it, teaching it, whatever it is.
[00:49:43.600 --> 00:50:01.200] And I think the moment consumers realize that this free product was still made by someone, then we can have like a further conversation about the value of free or the not so valuable concept of free.
[00:50:01.520 --> 00:50:07.600] It's interesting too, because you know, I think Jennifer, you brought up commitments earlier.
[00:50:07.600 --> 00:50:14.800] And I also think about you know, almost the inundation that we all experience of free these days as well.
[00:50:14.800 --> 00:50:20.480] Like you walk into Sephora or wherever, and it's not going to be one perfume, it's going to be like four.
[00:50:20.480 --> 00:50:24.240] Yeah, right.
[00:50:24.240 --> 00:50:32.720] Or, you know, when it comes to, you know, options in classes, you see that there are four, you're going to sign up for all four of them because they're all free.
[00:50:32.720 --> 00:50:36.880] Of course, you're going to, and then you actually can only make one of them if that.
[00:50:37.200 --> 00:50:39.520] Or, you know, even think online content.
[00:50:39.520 --> 00:50:47.520] Let's say you have 47 blog posts at your disposal here and you end up not reading a single one of them, whatever it may be.
[00:50:47.520 --> 00:51:11.640] I think there's also an opportunity, and it's not going to be easy because complete inundation of being significantly more intentional with your commitments in general and actually showing up in the places where you intentionally set those commitments so that you can get the value of the free that you are most interested in taking part in.
[00:51:11.640 --> 00:51:12.440] Yep.
[00:51:12.440 --> 00:51:14.440] I think that's exactly it, too.
[00:51:14.440 --> 00:51:18.680] Like, consumers have to also value themselves.
[00:51:18.680 --> 00:51:19.160] Right.
[00:51:20.120 --> 00:51:35.160] And until they do, you know, I don't know that any change will happen, but it's everyone, we all have a responsibility to value ourselves and be more intentional about where we spend our time.
[00:51:35.160 --> 00:51:46.360] And if you're going to sit and, like Jennifer said, fill out the event right thing, you put in your email address, how many tickets, like it's all these things that you're committing to, they're going to send you emails to remind you.
[00:51:46.360 --> 00:51:57.720] It's like that, you know, granted, it may have only taken you three minutes to do it, but like you could also, I don't know, make a cup of coffee in three minutes instead of filling out a ticket for an event that you're never going to show up to.
[00:51:57.720 --> 00:52:04.600] So I think we have to like reprioritize to like what's important to us and me included.
[00:52:04.920 --> 00:52:15.560] I think we are all trying to figure out, I don't know, being better, I don't know, having better intentions on how we want to spend our time.
[00:52:15.880 --> 00:52:16.760] Right.
[00:52:17.080 --> 00:52:24.520] That's something this past weekend, one of my friends was within spinning distance.
[00:52:24.520 --> 00:52:28.280] I mean, they were like two hours away, but they actually live in LA.
[00:52:29.240 --> 00:52:40.600] And Walter and I went back and forth of like whether or not to surprise her on Sunday and like whether we would, my husband Walter, like if we would take our one-year-old with us or if it just be me or just him or should we go at all?
[00:52:40.600 --> 00:52:47.840] And then ultimately we decided to go because I've been thinking a lot about time and my time and how I want to spend my life.
[00:52:47.840 --> 00:52:57.760] And do I want to spend it at home being like, oh, I wish we had gone or do I want to spend it, you know, driving five hours round trip to see my friends for a few hours?
[00:52:57.760 --> 00:52:59.040] Do I, you know?
[00:52:59.440 --> 00:53:10.320] And so I'm trying to also reprioritize that personally, as Shawanda was saying too, about like it's helping us to look at how we spend our time.
[00:53:10.800 --> 00:53:16.240] And now I'm just thinking of all the little things, like all the times that I'm like, well, why does I not go because it was raining?
[00:53:16.240 --> 00:53:17.280] That's my friends.
[00:53:17.280 --> 00:53:20.000] I've never seen, you know, like that kind of thing.
[00:53:20.720 --> 00:53:22.880] Life is short, things like that.
[00:53:23.840 --> 00:53:30.400] But I do think, I do think it's, you know, how your own value, exactly what Shawanda said.
[00:53:30.400 --> 00:53:31.520] It's your own value.
[00:53:31.520 --> 00:53:33.600] Like, what do you value?
[00:53:34.160 --> 00:53:38.080] And that'll help you, I feel like, be a more empathetic person.
[00:53:38.080 --> 00:53:44.880] If you can understand what you value, you would also understand what other people value and appreciate their time more.
[00:53:45.360 --> 00:53:46.320] Full circle thing.
[00:53:46.320 --> 00:53:51.440] It's going to take a lot of time and talent and patience, though, to get there.
[00:53:51.680 --> 00:53:52.320] Yeah.
[00:53:53.280 --> 00:53:54.160] Maybe not talent.
[00:53:54.160 --> 00:53:55.440] I don't know why I said that word.
[00:53:56.400 --> 00:53:57.680] No, that's fascinating.
[00:53:57.920 --> 00:53:59.280] No, it is talent too.
[00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:00.480] It's the experience.
[00:54:00.480 --> 00:54:04.960] It's, you know, everything you've put into being in that place in that moment.
[00:54:05.520 --> 00:54:14.640] I think this is all incredibly fascinating to me because, like I said, I feel like we've all experienced this in our own ways.
[00:54:14.640 --> 00:54:23.200] I also just want to, like, I feel like we did just do, well, I feel like I did a little bit of a Grite Fest around people who sign up for friends and don't attend.
[00:54:23.160 --> 00:54:33.000] Um, and in general, I love the Being Boss community a ton, a ton, and lots of people show up to things all the time, but like sometimes less so.
[00:54:29.920 --> 00:54:33.560] Right.
[00:54:35.080 --> 00:54:40.600] Like, we love, and we're not going to be like angry that you didn't come.
[00:54:40.600 --> 00:54:47.320] It's just kind of disappointing for when we have when we've put in a lot of energy.
[00:54:47.320 --> 00:54:58.040] And especially, like Shawana said, we love to be reminded of people making friends or learning something or completely changing their lives because we have these moments where people don't show up.
[00:54:58.040 --> 00:55:00.520] And so, we have to have that balance.
[00:55:00.520 --> 00:55:04.840] Um, and so it'd be great if people just let us know why they didn't come.
[00:55:04.840 --> 00:55:06.840] It's that simple, I think.
[00:55:06.840 --> 00:55:32.280] Yeah, yeah, or just I, yeah, or just come be a part of things in general because, well, and I think a lot of it too is we both on you know, each side of the fence that we're on value communities and value the missions and do the things to provide the things in ways that are free.
[00:55:32.280 --> 00:55:41.160] Um, and then there is like this return of energy that is needed to keep doing them, right?
[00:55:41.160 --> 00:55:52.200] And so, it just is that full circle that you were talking about earlier, and is something that I do think it sounds like from our conversation here sort of has to be tackled from both sides.
[00:55:52.200 --> 00:56:00.520] I think there's so many business owners putting out so much free stuff in the sort of desire to get more people to return, right?
[00:56:00.520 --> 00:56:20.640] So, so for marketing, for profit, all of these things that the world is inundated with all of this free stuff that the consumers have a hard time actually committing to any of it to make use of you know, those of us who are putting the free stuff out there, it's it's a wild thing.
[00:56:20.960 --> 00:56:31.360] I think, too, when there's so much free things, you it makes it difficult for consumers to figure out what's actually valuable out of the free things.
[00:56:31.520 --> 00:56:51.760] Yes, so because there's so much, that's why I think a few years ago we were like, okay, we're just gonna do X amount of free something a month because we don't want to have free stuff every night because then people are like, Well, whatever, like they're always offering something free, like I can just sign up or not show up or come the next week.
[00:56:51.760 --> 00:57:03.200] Um, and I think there is still an importance of offering free things so that you give people access to your community, but you also open it up to folks who can't pay for it.
[00:57:03.200 --> 00:57:14.000] But I think by limiting how much we do, you can value the free stuff, but it's like getting people on board to understand that there's value.
[00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:16.320] It's like a whole, it's like a rabbit hole.
[00:57:16.320 --> 00:57:27.040] Good lord, like it is or will it is you know what is absolutely fascinating in the past nine years of what we've done.
[00:57:27.040 --> 00:57:35.760] The free classes are all classes to make someone personally get basically more money.
[00:57:35.760 --> 00:57:47.520] So, which sounds interesting, like our financial education classes, our home buyer classes, our resume building classes, our interview classes, interview skills for you know, for getting a new job.
[00:57:47.520 --> 00:57:58.080] They all, anytime we have tried to charge for those, um, almost anytime, that people don't sign up or charge or charge, you know, like $15 or higher.
[00:57:58.080 --> 00:58:01.320] Yeah, um, people don't, people don't sign up.
[00:57:59.840 --> 00:58:05.240] And I think it's interesting, it just all goes back to that valuing yourself.
[00:58:05.400 --> 00:58:12.120] Like, you just can pay $10 to learn interview skills because that's going to help you get a job.
[00:58:13.320 --> 00:58:16.600] But people don't always want to do that.
[00:58:16.920 --> 00:58:20.600] And maybe, and maybe, and that could go back to maybe they can't afford it because they're looking for a job.
[00:58:20.600 --> 00:58:21.320] So, don't get me wrong.
[00:58:21.320 --> 00:58:23.880] There's also, but guess what?
[00:58:24.280 --> 00:58:26.760] The chattery also has a scholarship fund.
[00:58:26.760 --> 00:58:36.840] So, if you see a class that you want to take and it does cost money, you can submit an inquiry to us to have it paid for.
[00:58:37.320 --> 00:58:39.480] And we do form.
[00:58:39.480 --> 00:58:43.800] And actually, we've had a ton of people fill it out and no one's used.
[00:58:43.800 --> 00:58:45.960] Like, we've only, we've had very few people actually use it.
[00:58:45.960 --> 00:58:48.840] Like, I respond and I'm like, here's your code.
[00:58:48.840 --> 00:58:50.200] You can do whatever you want.
[00:58:50.200 --> 00:58:55.960] And maybe that goes back to what Emily was saying that maybe there's just too many options at that point.
[00:58:56.840 --> 00:59:00.360] Like, I got to use it for the exact right thing.
[00:59:00.440 --> 00:59:01.800] Like, no, just use it.
[00:59:01.800 --> 00:59:02.440] That's fine.
[00:59:02.440 --> 00:59:03.560] Just use it.
[00:59:04.120 --> 00:59:05.560] Just learn.
[00:59:06.200 --> 00:59:09.480] Well, this has been such a nice chat with you two.
[00:59:09.480 --> 00:59:12.280] I think this has me thinking about a whole lot of things.
[00:59:12.280 --> 00:59:15.480] And now it's in the boss's brains.
[00:59:15.480 --> 00:59:20.440] So if anyone's listening to this and you're like, I've got ideas, shoot us an email for sure.
[00:59:20.440 --> 00:59:21.800] We'd love to hear them.
[00:59:22.440 --> 00:59:29.880] Because I think that this is, I think this is a potential sort of evolution for fixing some stuff in the world.
[00:59:29.880 --> 00:59:33.560] And I don't know what exactly, but it feels like an important shift we all need to make.
[00:59:33.560 --> 00:59:34.120] How about that?
[00:59:34.120 --> 00:59:34.360] Yes.
[00:59:34.360 --> 00:59:34.600] Yeah.
[00:59:34.600 --> 00:59:39.960] Well, I think if you, I think if you value yourself and you value other people, that could fix pretty much everything.
[00:59:39.920 --> 00:59:47.840] But fact that might just solve it, but yeah, I don't know.
[00:59:47.840 --> 00:59:50.480] Shawanda and I are still trying to figure that out for ourselves.
[00:59:52.000 --> 00:59:54.000] I'm sorry, I didn't mean to love you in there, Shawanda.
[00:59:54.240 --> 00:59:54.640] Thanks.
[00:59:54.640 --> 00:59:57.280] I'm still trying to sell that if I cannot figure that out for myself.
[01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:00.640] Lovely.
[01:00:00.640 --> 01:00:01.280] Okay, perfect.
[01:00:01.280 --> 01:00:05.600] And I have a actually two more questions for you.
[01:00:05.600 --> 01:00:12.640] First, if people are interested in the chattery and what it is that you guys are doing, how do they find you on the internets?
[01:00:12.640 --> 01:00:18.240] Yes, we are on the internet at thechattery.org, chattery.org.
[01:00:18.480 --> 01:00:23.200] We're also on Facebook and Instagram at thechattery.
[01:00:23.200 --> 01:00:24.240] Wonderful.
[01:00:24.240 --> 01:00:26.640] And my last question for you.
[01:00:26.640 --> 01:00:36.080] Actually, no, before even that, if you are a member of the Beating Boss Clubhouse, you have Chattery class access too.
[01:00:36.240 --> 01:00:37.520] I just want to throw that out there.
[01:00:37.520 --> 01:00:46.320] So that is the paid version of the Beating Boss community where people show up to stuff all the time because they're paying for it.
[01:00:47.040 --> 01:01:00.240] And one of the perks we have in there is that we have sort of a fund with you guys so that bosses can sign up for in-person or online classes to come take them.
[01:01:00.240 --> 01:01:02.880] And sometimes because it's free, they don't show up.
[01:01:03.840 --> 01:01:08.560] I think is also a thing because it's free for them, though I'm paying for it.
[01:01:09.840 --> 01:01:11.200] Yeah, right.
[01:01:11.840 --> 01:01:18.240] Hey, the reason I showed it online is that we record it so everyone watches it later, right?
[01:01:18.560 --> 01:01:20.000] Yes, of course they do.
[01:01:20.640 --> 01:01:21.360] Of course they do.
[01:01:21.920 --> 01:01:25.200] I've been watching some kids' cartoons and they always pause.
[01:01:25.520 --> 01:01:27.200] Everyone's thinking, right?
[01:01:27.520 --> 01:01:29.760] I'm just like, are kids supposed to be screaming?
[01:01:29.960 --> 01:01:30.520] Right.
[01:01:31.240 --> 01:01:31.720] Yeah.
[01:01:32.040 --> 01:01:32.440] Yeah.
[01:01:32.440 --> 01:01:34.600] Bosses scream right, please.
[01:01:34.600 --> 01:01:35.080] Right.
[01:01:36.040 --> 01:01:36.760] For sure.
[01:01:36.760 --> 01:01:43.560] So, if anyone is interested, or if you are already a member of the clubhouse and you did not know that was a thing, it is.
[01:01:43.800 --> 01:01:56.200] And if you want to come take part of those as part of what we do at Being Boss, you have access to that in the Being Boss Clubhouse, which is part of the community beingboss.club/slash community.
[01:01:56.200 --> 01:02:02.600] And my last question for you both, and one of you gets to hear this first.
[01:02:03.560 --> 01:02:05.880] Jennifer, I'll let you do it first.
[01:02:05.880 --> 01:02:09.320] What makes you feel most boss these days?
[01:02:09.320 --> 01:02:19.480] Well, honestly, when I have time to be boss, when I have time, it makes me feel the most boss.
[01:02:19.640 --> 01:02:24.920] When I just have time to get through my to-do list or wash clothes or whatever it is.
[01:02:25.560 --> 01:02:28.520] But going back to time, that makes me feel the most boss.
[01:02:28.840 --> 01:02:29.400] Yeah.
[01:02:29.800 --> 01:02:30.760] Nice.
[01:02:30.760 --> 01:02:35.480] Shawanda, you got the treat of being able to think about it for 15 seconds.
[01:02:35.800 --> 01:02:36.600] Exactly.
[01:02:36.760 --> 01:02:39.000] What's making you feel most boss?
[01:02:39.880 --> 01:02:46.520] I think right now what's making me feel most boss is the ability to be flexible.
[01:02:46.760 --> 01:02:57.160] It's sort of the same as Jennifer as far as time, but I really do feel sort of like a badass because if I need to start my day at 10, I can.
[01:02:57.160 --> 01:03:03.800] If I need to, you know, not work in the morning and work at five o'clock because I want to, I can.
[01:03:03.800 --> 01:03:12.680] And I think just the flexibility of what this job offers is what makes me feel the most boss, to be completely honest.
[01:03:12.680 --> 01:03:14.120] It's just that.
[01:03:14.440 --> 01:03:15.000] Love it.
[01:03:15.360 --> 01:03:22.960] Time or agency over time, I do think is quite the perk that we all have.
[01:03:22.960 --> 01:03:24.000] It is for sure.
[01:03:24.320 --> 01:03:27.520] If I want to have a cocktail at two o'clock, I can.
[01:03:27.520 --> 01:03:27.760] Right?
[01:03:27.760 --> 01:03:30.080] Does that mean you're coming over for a cocktail?
[01:03:30.720 --> 01:03:32.400] Is that what's happening right now?
[01:03:32.400 --> 01:03:33.920] Because I love that for us.
[01:03:34.240 --> 01:03:36.000] Yeah, okay, perfect.
[01:03:36.240 --> 01:03:38.480] I'm walking distance to milk and honey.
[01:03:38.880 --> 01:03:40.000] Mezcla is down there.
[01:03:40.000 --> 01:03:41.040] We can have what you want.
[01:03:41.040 --> 01:03:45.200] Margaritas, mimosas, all things are around.
[01:03:45.520 --> 01:03:46.000] Perfect.
[01:03:48.560 --> 01:03:49.840] Cocktail suicide.
[01:03:52.080 --> 01:03:53.440] Maybe less so.
[01:03:53.680 --> 01:03:54.400] Perfect.
[01:03:54.400 --> 01:03:56.080] You two, this has been such a treat.
[01:03:56.080 --> 01:03:58.960] Thank you so much for coming and having this chat with me.
[01:03:58.960 --> 01:04:00.560] Thanks, Emily.
[01:04:00.560 --> 01:04:02.320] Yeah, thank you.
[01:04:03.920 --> 01:04:10.720] All right, boss, because you're here, I know you want to be a better creative business owner, which means I've got something for you.
[01:04:10.720 --> 01:04:27.280] Each week, the team at Being Boss is scouring the news, the best entrepreneurial publications, and updates and releases of the apps and tools that run our businesses and is curating it all into a weekly email that delivers the must-know tips and tactics in the realms of mindset, money, and productivity.
[01:04:27.280 --> 01:04:29.120] This email is called Brood.
[01:04:29.120 --> 01:04:35.280] We brew it up for you each week to give you the insight you need to make decisions and move forward in your creative business.
[01:04:35.280 --> 01:04:39.760] Check it out now and sign up for yourself at beingboss.club/slash brood.
[01:04:39.760 --> 01:04:44.720] That's beingboss.club/slash B-R-E-W-E-D.
[01:04:44.720 --> 01:04:47.440] Now, until next time, do the work.
[01:04:47.440 --> 01:04:48.640] Be boss.