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[00:00:00.480 --> 00:00:07.360] Look, payday is awesome, but running payroll, calculating taxes and deductions, staying compliant, that's not easy.
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[00:00:28.320 --> 00:00:34.800] And we have four years, and I personally recommend you give it a try, no matter how small your business is.
[00:00:34.800 --> 00:00:38.960] And to sweeten the deal, just for listening today, you also get three months free.
[00:00:38.960 --> 00:00:41.360] Go to gusto.com slash beingboss.
[00:00:41.360 --> 00:00:45.120] That's gusto.com/slash beingboss.
[00:00:46.720 --> 00:00:54.000] Welcome to Being Boss, a podcast for creatives, business owners, and entrepreneurs who want to take control of their work and live life on their own terms.
[00:00:54.000 --> 00:01:01.520] I'm your host, Emily Thompson, and in this episode, I'm joined by my business bestie, Kathleen Shannon, to talk about personal branding.
[00:01:01.520 --> 00:01:07.600] We're exploring the evolution, the pros and cons, and sharing some exercises to help you get it right.
[00:01:07.600 --> 00:01:13.520] You can find all the tools, books, and links we reference on the show notes at www.beingboss.club.
[00:01:13.520 --> 00:01:18.720] And if you like this episode, be sure to subscribe to this show and share us with a friend.
[00:01:20.320 --> 00:01:30.320] Whether you want to grow your business with content marketing, social media, or speaking on stages, or in highly produced Zoom rooms, I've got a podcast recommendation for you.
[00:01:30.320 --> 00:01:40.960] Cue up an episode of The Shine Online, hosted by Natasha Samuel, brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals.
[00:01:40.960 --> 00:02:05.400] On her show, Natasha interviews the brightest entrepreneurs she knows to bring you no-fluff advice, honest discussions about the mental health and lifestyle aspect of entrepreneurship, and actionable strategies and success stories of those who've mastered the art of shining online in this conversational podcast with some hard-hitting episodes on marketing your business filling the latest of her lineup.
[00:02:05.640 --> 00:02:11.080] Give it a search and listen to The Shine Online wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:02:14.600 --> 00:02:25.480] Kathleen Shannon is the co-founder and former co-host of this show, The Being Boss podcast, joining me for the first 240-ish episodes of this show with several one-off episodes since.
[00:02:25.480 --> 00:02:33.000] Kathleen is a partner and creative director at Braid Creative, a branding agency she founded with her sister over 10 years ago.
[00:02:33.000 --> 00:02:41.160] Kathleen has always lived by capturing, shaping, and sharing who she is, whether that's with a blog post, a podcast, or on social media.
[00:02:41.480 --> 00:02:46.200] Welcome back, Kathleen, to this show that you founded with me.
[00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:48.440] I'm so glad to be back.
[00:02:48.440 --> 00:02:53.160] A part of me has almost wanted to say, Can I just come back?
[00:02:53.160 --> 00:02:55.240] You don't even have to pay me.
[00:02:55.560 --> 00:03:03.160] Can I just come back every week and just chat with you about all things being boss, boundaries?
[00:03:04.840 --> 00:03:06.120] Let's start with boundaries.
[00:03:06.120 --> 00:03:11.560] Money, branding, business, taxes.
[00:03:11.880 --> 00:03:12.680] Anytime.
[00:03:12.680 --> 00:03:19.160] And you have a link and you can schedule as many of those slots as you so choose for sure.
[00:03:19.400 --> 00:03:25.560] I think if you were to actually see my recording schedule these days, you'd be like, actually, take that back.
[00:03:26.840 --> 00:03:28.280] Maybe every other one.
[00:03:28.280 --> 00:03:34.920] Yeah, maybe every other because I'm definitely like doing a lot of batching, spending lots of weeks just like Hunkered Down and doing a lot of recording.
[00:03:34.920 --> 00:03:37.400] And you'd be like, never mind.
[00:03:37.400 --> 00:03:42.680] But you are welcome to come back any and every time you ever so choose.
[00:03:42.920 --> 00:03:54.000] And I'm excited about this one today because this is one that you and I have talked about doing for a couple of months, but you've always come back to do something like a little more timely, like we're doing our new year review or whatever it may be.
[00:03:54.000 --> 00:04:00.000] But this is one that we've talked about sort of behind the scenes at least three or four times.
[00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:02.960] And you have notes, I have notes.
[00:04:02.960 --> 00:04:08.640] We're going to be diving into sort of an old topic, but as new people.
[00:04:08.640 --> 00:04:09.760] Here we go.
[00:04:09.760 --> 00:04:10.960] I almost said amen.
[00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:12.320] Do you still say that?
[00:04:12.320 --> 00:04:13.840] You still say that around here?
[00:04:14.880 --> 00:04:17.520] I guess I guess I do sometimes.
[00:04:17.520 --> 00:04:18.560] Amen.
[00:04:18.560 --> 00:04:22.240] It didn't fully make sense, but yes, I'm ready to dive in.
[00:04:22.240 --> 00:04:26.240] I'm so excited to talk about personal branding.
[00:04:26.240 --> 00:04:26.800] Yeah.
[00:04:26.800 --> 00:04:29.600] Why, why this topic?
[00:04:29.920 --> 00:04:38.640] Well, I found that personal branding, you know, we can talk about the history of personal branding and we can talk about the momentum it gained.
[00:04:38.880 --> 00:04:47.440] Like probably 10 years ago, personal branding as we know it became really accessible to people who weren't necessarily celebrities.
[00:04:47.440 --> 00:04:52.560] And I think that that brought a rise to creative entrepreneurship as we know it today.
[00:04:52.560 --> 00:05:00.080] And then within the past couple years, I've seen it really have a backlash and people hate the word personal brand.
[00:05:00.080 --> 00:05:07.520] And so I'm here today to talk about why I think that personal branding is a good thing, but also it can be a bad thing.
[00:05:07.520 --> 00:05:28.240] What to look out for, how you can really own and harness your own personal brand on your terms in order to be more creatively fulfilled and to find success both in who you are as a person and a business, and really just bring who you are into the work that you do.
[00:05:28.240 --> 00:05:31.800] I think that that will never steer you wrong.
[00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:36.200] Again, there are caveats, there are things to be cautious about and to look out for it.
[00:05:36.280 --> 00:05:39.080] And I think that we'll discuss those things as well.
[00:05:39.080 --> 00:05:46.360] But today I'm here to talk about why you can be a person in your business and why that's a good thing.
[00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:54.520] Yeah, this has been a topic that's come up for me as well several times, you know, chatting with you, which is why we're here doing this together, but also with other folks.
[00:05:55.080 --> 00:06:04.600] In particular, actually, Erica, who's been on the show here a couple of times, who is a DEI coach, she works with a lot of people who run personal brands through the lens of DEI coaching.
[00:06:04.600 --> 00:06:13.240] And so there's always some really interesting conversations that come up in sort of that space with her that I've been able to dive in on.
[00:06:13.240 --> 00:06:29.320] And it is the world of personal branding has changed so much over the past decade that, I mean, it definitely warrants at least one conversation as to what is different, how things have shifted and changed, what it is, or where we fall into it.
[00:06:29.320 --> 00:06:40.440] Because I think you and I both came here, even, you know, eight plus years ago from a place of being personal, personally branded and personally branding, being boss.
[00:06:40.440 --> 00:06:48.120] And we've shared on this show some decisions we made around that very early in building this show.
[00:06:48.120 --> 00:06:58.120] And I think, yeah, I'm excited to dive into this because it has been a sort of big evolution that has actually happened really quickly.
[00:06:58.440 --> 00:07:09.320] Going from everyone's a personal brand to, you know, a period of like everyone's sort of making a face when someone says personal, like, I have a personal brand, right?
[00:07:09.320 --> 00:07:13.880] And now I do think it is seeing an interesting sort of resurgence, but an evolution of it.
[00:07:13.880 --> 00:07:16.160] So let's dive into the thing.
[00:07:16.720 --> 00:07:29.120] So, first, I want to talk a little bit about how personal branding has evolved over the past decade and kind of where we saw it begin, which I would say we saw personal branding as we know it today.
[00:07:29.120 --> 00:07:33.520] It really did start in, I would say, around 2008.
[00:07:33.520 --> 00:07:46.560] Now, personal branding has been around for a really long time where celebrities and athletes have been spokespersons for other businesses like cereal or apparel, what have you, right?
[00:07:46.880 --> 00:07:52.160] But the thing about that is that they are then using their image to sell someone else's product.
[00:07:52.160 --> 00:07:55.520] And they're really not bringing a whole lot of their personality to it.
[00:07:55.520 --> 00:07:58.560] They're just bringing their reputation and what they're known for to it.
[00:07:58.560 --> 00:08:00.400] They're bringing their image to it.
[00:08:00.400 --> 00:08:11.360] But I would say around 2008, we all started blogging and we were all blogging in this new way that was attracting audiences.
[00:08:11.360 --> 00:08:19.600] So I especially think of a time whenever mommy blogging was in its heyday, which was, I would say, around 2007, 2008, 2009.
[00:08:19.600 --> 00:08:42.400] And I don't think that we would have used the words personal brand back then, but creative content creators, we weren't even using the word content creators back then either, but creatives were showing up with their personality and they found that they were attracting an audience just by being who they were, oftentimes by sharing the most vulnerable parts of who they were.
[00:08:42.400 --> 00:08:45.840] And then I think from there, people started to realize, oh, I have an audience.
[00:08:45.840 --> 00:08:47.760] What can I do with this?
[00:08:47.760 --> 00:08:59.760] So, that audience then gave way to monetization, whether that was through ads, sponsored content, or creating an offering for purchase, whether that be an e-course or a product or what have you.
[00:09:00.440 --> 00:09:11.480] I even think that even the phrase personal brand maybe came out of a desire to call yourself something other than a blogger, right?
[00:09:11.480 --> 00:09:19.320] Like, yeah, you were blogging, you were calling yourself a blogger, and same thing, like it was very exciting to be a blogger, and then everyone was a blogger.
[00:09:19.320 --> 00:09:22.680] And so, you were like, How am I better than a blogger?
[00:09:22.680 --> 00:09:27.240] I know, I have, I'm, I have built a personal brand, right?
[00:09:27.240 --> 00:09:35.480] And so, I think that person, I think the term personal brand was an evolution out of or being a blogger.
[00:09:35.800 --> 00:09:43.160] And I think for better or worse, the Kardashians really made the word personal brand mainstream.
[00:09:43.160 --> 00:09:52.200] They made it where it became a common household phrase beyond just what us bloggers and content creators were calling ourselves for better or worse.
[00:09:52.200 --> 00:09:59.880] And I have to say that the Kardashians using the word personal brand is probably also what created the backlash against it, right?
[00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:15.000] So, I think that there was like a lot of empowerment once we all realized that we could leverage who we are as people to make more money, not really seeing the dark side of that, which there is a dark side to that.
[00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:20.120] Um, and yeah, the phrase personal brand, it really started to gain some mainstream momentum.
[00:10:20.120 --> 00:10:26.040] And anytime anything becomes mainstream, you're going to see that backlash against it.
[00:10:26.040 --> 00:10:41.080] Um, and you know, I think that ultimately the backlash came from this idea that we're commodifying who we are as a person for profit and then starting to value profit at the expense of who you are as a person.
[00:10:41.080 --> 00:10:42.080] Absolutely.
[00:10:42.080 --> 00:10:42.600] Absolutely.
[00:10:42.600 --> 00:10:50.080] And I see this evolution, if I can, like almost even distill down sort of the era of personal branding that we're talking about.
[00:10:50.400 --> 00:11:03.680] I think of it as, you know, when you got started in, or when what we know as personal branding really sort of started its heyday, it was all about teaching or sharing what you knew, right?
[00:11:03.680 --> 00:11:14.400] You were, you were creating content, you were writing a blog, you were, you know, getting on Twitter or whatever it was, and you were beginning to sort of put what you knew out into the world.
[00:11:14.400 --> 00:11:20.400] And then it was selling what you knew through courses or coaching or whatever it may be.
[00:11:20.400 --> 00:11:32.720] And that sort of evolution turned into a personal brand, really just being you're selling a course or you're selling coaching or some sort of like packaged up version of what it is that you know.
[00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:47.600] These days, it's gone into, or it's really grown into this sort of umbrella term for anyone who is putting themselves out into the world in any sort of capacity, sharing more of who they are.
[00:11:47.920 --> 00:11:58.560] But there is, it's funny, it's sort of gone, a very large section of that has gone back to what you talked about previously with this idea of being an influencer, right?
[00:11:58.560 --> 00:12:09.360] So if you were an athlete hired by Nike to be the face of a new shoe, that's like only the top of the top got that before.
[00:12:09.360 --> 00:12:11.920] Though now anyone can be an influencer.
[00:12:11.920 --> 00:12:15.920] And from that place, they're doing it more or less as a personal brand.
[00:12:15.920 --> 00:12:26.560] So there's influencers, but there's also this content creation that's not so much what you know or what it is that you want to share, but I think a lot of like comedy.
[00:12:26.560 --> 00:12:34.440] There's a lot of people who have built personal brands around their own humor in a way that like is not something you would have thought about.
[00:12:34.600 --> 00:12:45.640] I mean, there was definitely some like comedy bloggers back in the day, but you scroll through TikTok and you know, half of it is folks with funny personal brands or whatever it may be.
[00:12:45.640 --> 00:12:49.320] So it's really grown to encompass a whole lot of things.
[00:12:49.320 --> 00:12:53.880] With I think these days, that influencer bit being there's sort of two backbones.
[00:12:53.880 --> 00:12:59.400] There's this influencer bit, like I'm gonna, I'm going to sell you what I like, right?
[00:12:59.720 --> 00:13:05.240] And then this other backbone is I'm still going to sell you what I know.
[00:13:05.560 --> 00:13:06.360] Absolutely.
[00:13:06.360 --> 00:13:09.000] And the influencer bit is really interesting.
[00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:27.800] And I think that that's also part of the backlash to having a personal brand is that we started to swing the other way of losing some vulnerable authenticity into becoming this curated, perfect image, face-tuned influencer version of selling other people's stuff again.
[00:13:27.800 --> 00:13:36.280] Like it kind of turned into a full circle situation where now influences are just the new unattainable celebrity, right?
[00:13:36.280 --> 00:13:45.640] And so I think that the problem with you know personal branding is that a brand by nature just it lacks a certain amount of humanity, right?
[00:13:45.640 --> 00:13:49.720] A business with a brand is driven by profit, fact.
[00:13:50.040 --> 00:13:54.280] And it doesn't necessarily create an authentic sense of trust or belonging.
[00:13:54.280 --> 00:14:09.160] No matter how much I love, you know, Beyonce, no matter how much Ivy Park I wear, I'm not going to be Beyoncé, and just because I'm wearing Ivy Park does not mean that I belong to a group of the beehive, for example, right?
[00:14:09.160 --> 00:14:15.440] That's not necessarily what does it, but that's what marketing and advertising and consumerism tell us, right?
[00:14:14.440 --> 00:14:17.360] That's that's the big lie of it all, right?
[00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:28.320] And here's the deal: a business and a brand can never be as complex or nuanced as a whole person that contains multitudes, right?
[00:14:28.640 --> 00:14:50.320] So, I think that for me, where I started to feel my own personal backlash against a personal brand is that I think that these influencers, for example, promote a level of unsustainable perfectionism, and it can really put some walls around how you grow and evolve as a person, right?
[00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:57.040] So, if you're known for something, it's really hard to publicly change your mind or try new things.
[00:14:57.040 --> 00:15:04.240] You want to keep doing what works, you want to keep doing what you've kind of pigeonholed yourself into being known for.
[00:15:04.240 --> 00:15:27.280] And then, there's also the idea that once you're known for something and you have a bigger audience, you're going to disappoint people, you are going to make mistakes, you are going to run the risk of being canceled, and you can also dangerously end up tying your worth and success as a person to the success and profitability of your business.
[00:15:27.280 --> 00:15:28.640] Yeah, for sure.
[00:15:28.640 --> 00:15:29.200] Yes, to all of you.
[00:15:29.280 --> 00:15:30.560] That's the danger of it all.
[00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:32.000] That is the danger of it.
[00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:40.000] And I would say, one of the things that I don't love about it, and I've like I've worked that entire spectrum, right?
[00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:43.120] I'm actually currently working on both ends of that spectrum.
[00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:48.320] And in a big way, being boss is still a very personal brand for me.
[00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:57.840] Um, though I have very intentionally removed myself from it more than I could, like, I could really make being boss into a very personal brand if I wanted to.
[00:15:57.840 --> 00:16:04.040] It's set up to be that, but I don't want to be that because on the other end of the spectrum, I have Almanac.
[00:16:04.280 --> 00:16:13.560] And though, what people experience of it online, and especially bosses, there is this like essence of Emily in it that you know and you see and you feel and all of these things.
[00:16:13.560 --> 00:16:25.080] But I would say easily these days, 98% of our customers, all of the foot traffic who come off the street into our store to buy things from us, have no idea who I am.
[00:16:25.080 --> 00:16:29.400] And I love that so much.
[00:16:29.400 --> 00:16:47.880] Because, and one of the reasons why I love that, and I never really connected this until I was thinking about this not too long ago, is that one of the one of the hard things about building a personal brand is for you to gain the trust of a potential customer to turn them into a customer.
[00:16:47.880 --> 00:16:49.800] You have to sell twice.
[00:16:49.800 --> 00:16:56.280] You have to sell them on who you are, and then you have to sell them on the thing that you're selling.
[00:16:56.280 --> 00:16:59.000] You have to sell your customers two times.
[00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:10.680] If you are building a brand that is not a personal brand, but is just a business that sells something, you only really have to sell them one time on the thing that you're selling them.
[00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:16.040] And that is so much easier than selling two times.
[00:17:16.040 --> 00:17:21.400] So I am, I'm definitely in England where we disagree a little.
[00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:23.640] Go for it.
[00:17:23.640 --> 00:17:24.040] How so?
[00:17:24.360 --> 00:17:25.000] Sorry, keep going.
[00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:25.480] Keep going.
[00:17:25.480 --> 00:17:26.760] I'm putting a pin in it.
[00:17:27.080 --> 00:17:29.880] No, it's just, I don't even remember what I was going to say next.
[00:17:29.880 --> 00:17:31.240] It's just, I'm sorry.
[00:17:31.240 --> 00:17:34.280] It's a preferred method for me, I think.
[00:17:34.280 --> 00:17:38.360] Whenever I think about it, whenever you said that, I was like, ooh, juicy.
[00:17:38.360 --> 00:17:39.480] That is juicy.
[00:17:39.480 --> 00:17:42.840] Like, having just the idea of selling someone twice.
[00:17:42.840 --> 00:17:43.320] Yeah.
[00:17:43.880 --> 00:17:44.200] Yeah.
[00:17:44.200 --> 00:17:46.240] Like, let's just do it once, right?
[00:17:46.240 --> 00:17:48.560] So maybe that's where influencers have it right.
[00:17:44.840 --> 00:17:50.320] They're just selling someone once.
[00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:55.920] They are selling the company that they are promoting and advertising for, right?
[00:17:55.920 --> 00:17:59.760] But then essentially, they're kind of just a breathing, walking advertisement.
[00:17:59.760 --> 00:18:03.120] And that feels kind of not great to me.
[00:18:03.120 --> 00:18:05.120] Like, that's why I never wanted to be an influencer.
[00:18:05.120 --> 00:18:07.760] That's why I've never sold anyone else's products.
[00:18:07.760 --> 00:18:10.320] That's why I don't do affiliates, right?
[00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:29.920] However, with selling people twice and selling them on first on who you are and then selling them on what you know, I like to think of using your personal brand to attract the people that are like you and have similar interests and want to buy what you have to offer.
[00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:40.480] So I think of it as more of an attraction and then conversion to selling versus selling them twice, even though I think that it's just semantics is what we're talking about here.
[00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:44.960] Like, and I think that by attracting people, you're also selling them.
[00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:50.880] But even whenever it comes to selling people on my products at Braid, for example, I never think of it as selling.
[00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:53.360] I think of it as simply explaining what I do.
[00:18:53.360 --> 00:18:55.200] And then if you want to buy it, go for it.
[00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:57.760] But it's not my job to convince you of anything.
[00:18:57.760 --> 00:19:02.160] It's not my job to convince you to like me, to follow me, or to buy me.
[00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:12.560] However, I believe that if I can show up as I am and share what I know, you are going to like and buy what I've got to offer if it's a good fit for you.
[00:19:12.560 --> 00:19:13.920] And that's great.
[00:19:14.960 --> 00:19:27.600] I think you're right in a lot of situations, but I think that there is a lot that happens in personal branding where it really is selling on my version of the thing and then the thing.
[00:19:27.600 --> 00:19:29.760] So I think of like coaches in particular.
[00:19:29.880 --> 00:19:37.080] Like I'm not just going to hire any old coach who's going to, like, there's a million out there that can help me, you know, in my sales tactics or whatever.
[00:19:37.080 --> 00:19:45.160] I have to buy you first, or like, I have to buy into you first before I buy into working with you second.
[00:19:45.640 --> 00:19:58.520] And even for you and designers, like that's also something where like you are selling your, like you are attracting, but generally selling with your style first and then the actual thing second.
[00:19:58.920 --> 00:20:07.240] Whereas with a rock shop, like they're just gonna walk in and buy the rock and they do not care at all who's selling it.
[00:20:07.240 --> 00:20:07.560] Yeah.
[00:20:07.560 --> 00:20:08.040] Yes.
[00:20:08.040 --> 00:20:10.760] And I think it's a both and situation.
[00:20:10.760 --> 00:20:19.400] I think the flip side of that very same coin, for example, is I recently hired a pelvic floor physical therapist, right?
[00:20:19.400 --> 00:20:33.320] And I was, because I pee myself a little bit whenever I jump on a trampoline, because nine years ago today, I spent an hour and a half pushing a sweet baby boy out of my body and it did a little bit of damage, right?
[00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:42.040] So I started, I got into some sort of like pelvic floor algorithm on Instagram and started following a couple of pelvic floor therapists.
[00:20:42.040 --> 00:20:45.320] And they convinced me that this is fixable.
[00:20:45.320 --> 00:20:53.160] Even nine years later, I can fix my body so that I can just do a little jaunt across the street and not pee myself.
[00:20:53.160 --> 00:20:56.680] I can sneeze unexpectedly and not pee myself.
[00:20:56.680 --> 00:21:00.680] I can get the flu and start coughing and not pee myself, right?
[00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:04.760] So I followed a couple of people and I had a call with a gal.
[00:21:04.760 --> 00:21:07.720] She saw that I was following her and she was like, hey, what made you follow me?
[00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:13.000] And I was like, oh, well, I'm interested in not peeing myself anymore when I do jumping jacks.
[00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:18.640] So I had a 15-minute call with her that turned into an hour and she was selling me hard.
[00:21:18.640 --> 00:21:24.480] And then she posted something on Instagram from another account that was like.
[00:21:24.800 --> 00:21:26.880] not a feminist, but feminine.
[00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:32.800] Or like, you know, the handle was something that was against my values because it was like anti-feminism.
[00:21:32.800 --> 00:21:45.440] And then I was following another gal who's a PT physical therapist, kind of offering the same kind of tips and advice, but also giving more away for free, like explicitly sharing specific exercises that you can do on Instagram.
[00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:47.760] So one, she was giving it all away for free.
[00:21:47.760 --> 00:21:54.480] And then two, she was posting things around social justice that are aligned with my values.
[00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:56.560] And so I decided to hire her.
[00:21:56.560 --> 00:22:04.640] And I hired her not just because of what she knew and because she was generously sharing it, but because of who she was as a person.
[00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:07.920] Like I just thought that she was really cool and someone that I would be friends with.
[00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:19.920] So the flip side of that same queen that you're talking about, like being able to sell rocks, well, then if I can buy rocks from anywhere, I would rather buy rocks from the person that I love for who they are, which is you as Emily.
[00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:27.760] I think it's both and though, where you're not entirely reliant upon people knowing you and liking you in order to buy your product.
[00:22:27.760 --> 00:22:35.200] Like you could also just have really good SEO that's like crystals, rocks, magic, Chattanooga, right?
[00:22:35.520 --> 00:22:36.720] And sell.
[00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:44.720] But then also, and when people show up and they connect with you as a person, they're like, whoa, that chick is awesome.
[00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:46.000] And they didn't even know you had a podcast.
[00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:47.680] And they start listening to your podcast.
[00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:50.640] Or podcast listeners are like, wait, I need some rocks.
[00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:52.880] I might as well buy them from Emily.
[00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:53.120] Right.
[00:22:53.120 --> 00:22:55.920] So, I think that that's the both and of it.
[00:22:55.920 --> 00:22:57.040] For sure, for sure.
[00:22:57.040 --> 00:22:59.440] And we're going to be getting into this in a minute.
[00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:04.440] Even as I say all those things, I feel like personal brand is always the fallback, right?
[00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:07.240] Let's say the rock business doesn't work, right?
[00:23:07.240 --> 00:23:17.160] Whatever it may be, I can still go write a substack newsletter about any and all kinds of things, right?
[00:23:17.160 --> 00:23:19.160] And still sort of fall back on that.
[00:23:19.160 --> 00:23:24.520] And even now, I am still like, I have a foot on both sides of that fence, right?
[00:23:24.760 --> 00:23:39.800] I think that there is something to be said about, um, so maybe the validity of each, whether you want to choose a personal brand and do that thing, or you want to not, you just want to build a brand that is definitely infused with your personality, right?
[00:23:39.800 --> 00:23:45.160] You're still, there is still a branding element, but it has less to do with me.
[00:23:45.160 --> 00:23:48.840] And I don't have to sell them on who I am at all.
[00:23:48.840 --> 00:23:51.720] I just have to sell them on the values of my brand.
[00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:59.800] I love that you said the fallback is your personal brand because what that says to me is that no matter what happens, you can trust yourself.
[00:23:59.800 --> 00:24:07.080] You can trust who you are as a person to show up and get it done and to do what you need to do.
[00:24:07.080 --> 00:24:09.560] You cannot trust rocks in the same way.
[00:24:09.560 --> 00:24:15.960] You cannot trust the Instagram algorithm in the same way, but you can trust you and who you are.
[00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:18.680] And that's the power of a personal brand.
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[00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:50.000] Grow better.
[00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:56.640] Okay, then we just talked about all the like dark sides because there are some dark sides to a personal brand.
[00:24:56.640 --> 00:25:06.160] And I think, you know, it's funny because whenever you and I started out, what were the dark sides of a personal brand?
[00:25:07.120 --> 00:25:08.960] Like, there were none.
[00:25:09.280 --> 00:25:10.160] There were none.
[00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:13.840] I mean, the whole environment wasn't as contentious as it is now.
[00:25:13.840 --> 00:25:16.400] There wasn't the risk for cancellation.
[00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:25.520] There wasn't so much, it didn't seem as like hyper-critical then as it does now, regardless of the size of your audience.
[00:25:25.520 --> 00:25:26.080] Indeed.
[00:25:26.080 --> 00:25:29.840] Whereas now it's something that really should be weighed.
[00:25:30.320 --> 00:25:34.080] Or, and it's funny, I think we'll even get into this in a minute as well.
[00:25:34.080 --> 00:25:42.720] I think it's something that people actually fall into now more often than maybe they even did back then.
[00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:44.080] But I might be jumping ahead.
[00:25:44.080 --> 00:25:45.120] What's next?
[00:25:45.760 --> 00:25:50.960] Okay, so let's just kind of talk about what a personal brand is now, right?
[00:25:51.280 --> 00:25:56.560] And I think that there is a place for a personal brand, even though we just talked about all the dark sides of it.
[00:25:56.560 --> 00:25:58.880] There is a place for a personal brand.
[00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:06.560] And I think that it's something that as entrepreneurs, we can be aware of and do it on our own terms.
[00:26:06.560 --> 00:26:15.760] So whenever I think about what a personal brand is now, a personal brand is just simply allowing who you are as a person to have a place in your business.
[00:26:15.760 --> 00:26:21.600] This means that your personal interests and hobbies may influence your offerings or your niche.
[00:26:21.600 --> 00:26:28.320] It means that your values as a person will direct your decisions as a business.
[00:26:28.320 --> 00:26:39.880] And I do believe that owning your personal brand can just give you so much confidence and creative fulfillment and connection to your business and to your dream clients or customers.
[00:26:40.120 --> 00:27:02.040] So I think that the tricky part around a personal brand, and this is what I really want to get into, is understanding how you make all of those things that you are a first impression, whether that's a first impression of your business or a first impression of you as the face of your business, and really building a reputation around what it is that you want to be known for and who you actually are.
[00:27:02.360 --> 00:27:04.280] So that's kind of how I think of personal branding.
[00:27:04.280 --> 00:27:05.720] Is there anything that you would add to that?
[00:27:05.720 --> 00:27:10.200] Like how you would define personal brand today in a positive light?
[00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:12.360] Like what it can do for you?
[00:27:12.360 --> 00:27:14.600] I think you hit all the things on the head.
[00:27:14.600 --> 00:27:20.440] I think one of the ways that it's evolved over the years is back then.
[00:27:20.440 --> 00:27:24.120] I actually, I just did some quick Googling while we were doing this.
[00:27:24.120 --> 00:27:42.440] The concept of personal branding actually, or is most attributed to a man named Tom Peters in a book that he wrote, The Brand You 50:50 Ways to Transform Yourself from an Employee Into a Brand that Shouts Distinction, Commit, and Passion.
[00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:45.640] That is, we thought our title was long.
[00:27:46.600 --> 00:27:48.120] Oh, that was his whole title.
[00:27:48.120 --> 00:27:48.680] Yeah, yeah.
[00:27:48.680 --> 00:27:58.280] So, so the idea really came from the sort of employee standpoint, it sounds like, into something a little bit more.
[00:27:58.280 --> 00:28:10.760] Whereas, where we are coming from it now is you are, or actually, before even now, let's go midway where we were talking about, you know, 07, 08, 09, when personal branding became all the buzz.
[00:28:10.760 --> 00:28:20.400] It was more of a like, I'm going to start a blog and sell a course, or I'm going to create a YouTube channel and like literally that's it.
[00:28:21.040 --> 00:28:33.760] Whereas now, personal branding is a whole business model opportunity because the outlets that we have available to us are so numerous.
[00:28:33.760 --> 00:28:37.360] And so, like, Substack didn't exist back then.
[00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:40.800] Content creation was not a term that we were using.
[00:28:40.800 --> 00:28:43.600] We were just showing up in a space and creating the content for that thing.
[00:28:43.600 --> 00:28:47.040] And now it's like multi-channel content creation, right?
[00:28:47.040 --> 00:28:49.440] Where all are we going to be?
[00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:56.320] And so, there, personal branding is not just something you call yourself because you're tired of calling yourself a blogger anymore, right?
[00:28:56.320 --> 00:29:01.760] It is a whole business choice for you to walk into.
[00:29:01.760 --> 00:29:11.600] And I think one of the interesting things that I'm seeing now is those of us who are very business-minded understand that part of personal branding.
[00:29:11.600 --> 00:29:24.320] But you often see people who are going viral now who have to figure out the business part second of they now are a personal brand, whether they realize that's what they were doing or not.
[00:29:24.320 --> 00:29:30.000] And how do they turn that into a business that is their personal brand?
[00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:45.920] So, I think the opportunities for personal branding are so vast that now it really requires you to do at least some considering as to where it is you want your personal brand to live and what it is that it's going to accomplish.
[00:29:46.240 --> 00:29:51.360] I want to say that I think that the going viral part of it is still the exception and not the rule.
[00:29:51.360 --> 00:29:55.520] And I think that you can have a personal brand without stumbling upon it.
[00:29:55.520 --> 00:30:05.000] And that's where I really want to direct the conversation: you can show up as who you are with 10 people following or subscribing or whatever.
[00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:07.080] And you can just show up on one platform.
[00:30:07.080 --> 00:30:16.520] I think that part of this idea that you have to be in all the places with your personal brand is us feeding into what the platforms want from us.
[00:30:16.520 --> 00:30:23.640] The platforms want us to make it seem like we have to be on Instagram, YouTube, Substack, what else?
[00:30:23.640 --> 00:30:25.960] You know, TikTok, like all the things.
[00:30:25.960 --> 00:30:29.800] And that's what's burning people out on the idea of a personal brand.
[00:30:29.800 --> 00:30:48.520] So what I'm really seeing is the rise of Substack, especially, which I think is really, really interesting because I find that people are just going to Substack or just going to Patreon and really self-publishing content on their own terms and kind of sticking their flag in that place that they can own.
[00:30:48.520 --> 00:30:52.360] And they're not feeling the need to be in all the places.
[00:30:52.360 --> 00:31:05.160] So just for our audience that might not know yet, because I didn't know until recently, Substack is an email newsletter platform that allows writers and podcasters to publish directly to their audience.
[00:31:05.160 --> 00:31:14.600] So very much like Patreon, where you can like engage in free content or there are tiers of engagement that you can buy into.
[00:31:14.920 --> 00:31:33.960] And so what I think is really cool about Substack, and this is not sponsored by Substack, I don't even have a Substack, but what I'm seeing and what I'm seeing from my clients is that you can monetize and grow in a place that is not at the mercy of algorithms or competing with a pay-to-play digital advertising platform.
[00:31:33.960 --> 00:31:40.280] Looking at you, Instagram, and probably Facebook and all of them, right?
[00:31:40.280 --> 00:31:45.280] So, like almost all of social media now, in order to show up, you have to pay to play.
[00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:57.840] So, don't think that you can create a social media strategy that is going to attract new customers unless you are putting money behind it, which I also don't recommend unless you just have a ton of money, right?
[00:31:58.160 --> 00:32:17.520] So, anyway, what I found that's really interesting with Substack is that even my own branding clients, a lot of them that hire me at Braid to do their branding for their business, whether that's as a life coach or as a therapist or as a creator, many of them are creating Substacks where they can share more personal writing and content.
[00:32:17.520 --> 00:32:22.000] And many of them are confused as how it will relate and play into their business.
[00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:32.880] So, they have this drive to share who they are as a ding ding personal brand, but even more than a personal brand as a whole person.
[00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:45.840] They want to share who they are as a person, but they are confused as to where it fits into their life of getting compensated, of having the time and the resources to create this kind of content, right?
[00:32:45.840 --> 00:32:47.840] Because we all only have so much time.
[00:32:47.840 --> 00:32:53.280] I think it's fair to want to be compensated for putting yourself out there creatively, right?
[00:32:53.280 --> 00:32:54.720] Otherwise, it's just a hobby.
[00:32:54.720 --> 00:33:01.440] They wouldn't be asking me, How does this all play together if it was only a hobby, right?
[00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:11.760] So, what you need to look at is if you are wanting to create content that is more personal, but you're wanting it to play into your business, you have to think about the common denominator between those things.
[00:33:11.760 --> 00:33:18.960] And the common denominator between the business that you've created and the more personal content that you're sharing is you.
[00:33:19.280 --> 00:33:25.920] So, you are the thing that bridges the gap between you as a person and you as a business.
[00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:38.600] So, my question for anyone who's wanting to share more personal content, and even for myself, we talked about this on the last episode where I was talking about my personal YouTube channel: is why do you need a separate place for both?
[00:33:38.600 --> 00:33:43.400] Why do you need a separate place for your business and a separate place for your content?
[00:33:43.400 --> 00:33:51.960] And that's not me saying that the answer is no, it should all be together, not at all, because sometimes they deserve separate places.
[00:33:52.280 --> 00:33:54.440] That is appropriate in some instances.
[00:33:54.440 --> 00:34:01.880] And in some instances, you are probably spinning your wheels and being inefficient where it could all be in one place.
[00:34:01.880 --> 00:34:13.480] So, some more questions that you might explore as you are thinking about sharing more of who you are and making money as a business is: can you bring more of who you are into your business?
[00:34:13.480 --> 00:34:14.840] And what would that look like?
[00:34:14.840 --> 00:34:24.520] And can you bring some of your business and how you make your livelihood into your personal writing or personal videos or whatever content you're creating?
[00:34:24.520 --> 00:34:28.760] And again, for some people, the right answer is to keep them separate for the sake of creativity.
[00:34:28.760 --> 00:34:40.040] If you've read Big Magic and it resonated with you whenever Elizabeth Gilbert says, Don't make money off of your creativity because it will choke it out, you know, then yeah, keep it separate.
[00:34:40.040 --> 00:34:47.160] But for others, it might be really advantageous to blend the two together and to really think about what that looks like.
[00:34:47.160 --> 00:34:56.520] Yeah, and I'm on a side where like use it to diversify when and where it makes sense as well.
[00:34:57.320 --> 00:35:03.720] The thing that I really want to highlight here is one of the fun things about personal branding is there really is no right or wrong way.
[00:35:03.720 --> 00:35:06.600] It's just what fits best for you, right?
[00:35:06.600 --> 00:35:11.160] So, be where you want to be, do it the way you want to, monetize or not.
[00:35:11.160 --> 00:35:19.600] Or even let's say you are within the context of an organization or you want nothing to do with like monetizing your personal brand at all.
[00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:38.960] You know, how can you show up in your life in a way that makes you makes it so obvious what your values are and what you are or what you are about that you are a walking personal brand without telling people you're a personal brand.
[00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:41.360] This, this exactly.
[00:35:41.360 --> 00:35:45.600] Like you're, if you are showing up, you are a personal brand whether you like it or not.
[00:35:45.600 --> 00:35:53.440] So really knowing who you are and having awareness that you are projecting an image is only going to serve you.
[00:35:53.440 --> 00:36:00.000] And so I have a couple of tips and tools and exercises that you can use to kind of figure out what that is.
[00:36:00.560 --> 00:36:03.760] And it will totally serve you well to go through these exercises.
[00:36:03.760 --> 00:36:13.920] But before we do that, I also want to talk a little bit about Instagram because I've also seen the backlash of Instagram giving a rise to personal brand again in a really interesting way.
[00:36:14.640 --> 00:36:15.040] Yeah.
[00:36:15.040 --> 00:36:15.600] Okay.
[00:36:15.600 --> 00:36:26.960] So I have found that the backlash to Instagram is having all of us as users of Instagram who used to like Instagram really double down on authenticity.
[00:36:26.960 --> 00:36:31.120] Now, I know that authenticity is a buzzword, but I have not found a better word for it.
[00:36:31.120 --> 00:36:32.800] So we're going to use it.
[00:36:32.800 --> 00:36:39.680] But I'm talking about what I'm finding on Instagram is people posting imperfect photo dumps.
[00:36:39.680 --> 00:36:50.120] Like we're talking about the kind of stuff that we used to put on Facebook in the early days where you'd upload 100 photos from a party the night before, and nothing was edited.
[00:36:50.120 --> 00:36:52.160] Nothing was face-tuned.
[00:36:52.160 --> 00:36:53.840] There were some blurry shots in there.
[00:36:53.840 --> 00:37:01.800] I mean, some of us were even getting our, you know, disposable film cameras, you know, was developed.
[00:37:01.800 --> 00:37:02.440] I forgot the word.
[00:36:59.840 --> 00:37:04.040] Turned into CDs.
[00:37:04.600 --> 00:37:10.200] Turned into CDs, developed, and then posting that stuff up on Facebook, right?
[00:37:10.200 --> 00:37:12.520] And that's what I'm seeing happen on Instagram.
[00:37:12.520 --> 00:37:23.880] It's almost like, you know, things are becoming less staged as Instagram and FaceTune influencers demand even more work and perfection from us.
[00:37:23.880 --> 00:37:25.720] So this is what Instagram did.
[00:37:25.720 --> 00:37:29.320] Instagram was like, oh no, it's not enough to post a photo anymore.
[00:37:29.320 --> 00:37:30.760] You need to create reels.
[00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:32.200] You need to learn how to edit.
[00:37:32.200 --> 00:37:43.400] You need to learn how to dance and point your fingers at little captions that are popping up in order to sell your rocks, to sell your brand, to sell whatever it is that you have.
[00:37:43.640 --> 00:37:45.480] Professional services.
[00:37:46.120 --> 00:37:46.600] Yeah.
[00:37:46.600 --> 00:37:49.640] Like I'm seeing dentists doing this stuff, right?
[00:37:50.120 --> 00:37:52.520] And we can see through the fakeness of it all.
[00:37:52.520 --> 00:37:56.200] It is so fake and we're not having it anymore.
[00:37:56.200 --> 00:38:05.400] And we're not having it by showing up as we are without filters, whether that's on Instagram or on Substack, right?
[00:38:05.400 --> 00:38:12.760] Like we are going to places where we can just show up and photo dump and share on our own terms.
[00:38:12.760 --> 00:38:16.360] Kind of like saying, yeah, screw you, Instagram.
[00:38:16.360 --> 00:38:18.280] I'm here as me.
[00:38:18.280 --> 00:38:19.960] I can't handle it anymore.
[00:38:19.960 --> 00:38:29.480] So I'm really seeing this backlash to like the perfectionism of it all by being more of who we are, bumps and warts and all, right?
[00:38:29.800 --> 00:38:30.440] Yeah.
[00:38:30.440 --> 00:38:33.640] And that is preferred, I think.
[00:38:33.640 --> 00:38:38.440] And it is something that, as we're talking about this, it's so funny.
[00:38:38.440 --> 00:38:41.880] We are like online dinosaurs a little bit, you and I.
[00:38:42.200 --> 00:38:47.200] Not like the oldest of dinosaurs, but we're a little prehistoric, you know?
[00:38:47.200 --> 00:38:49.760] Like, we were there when it began.
[00:38:44.680 --> 00:38:50.800] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:38:51.120 --> 00:38:52.400] So it's funny.
[00:38:52.800 --> 00:39:09.200] We say this, and I feel this way, but I feel like a lot of people who have really just sort of gotten online the past like four, five, six years are like, excuse me, I'm great at dancing and pointing at my words or whatever it may be.
[00:39:09.200 --> 00:39:15.360] Because I do think that we are like the older outliers to this.
[00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:23.600] And though this makes the most sense to us, I feel like there are so many people who are still so in it that that's why it's still working.
[00:39:23.600 --> 00:39:30.320] So if you're like a little offended by all those things that Kathleen said, noted.
[00:39:30.320 --> 00:39:34.240] Well, also, if you're offended, I want to know, do you actually want to be doing that stuff?
[00:39:34.240 --> 00:39:36.240] Like, if it brings you joy, great.
[00:39:36.240 --> 00:39:38.880] I do a lot of cringy things that bring me joy.
[00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:41.040] And I don't care if it's cringy, right?
[00:39:41.040 --> 00:39:42.560] I don't care.
[00:39:42.560 --> 00:39:46.320] But if you're doing those things because you feel like you have to keep up, guess what?
[00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:47.840] You don't have to do it anymore.
[00:39:47.840 --> 00:39:51.680] You can show up in a way that feels true to you.
[00:39:51.680 --> 00:39:52.160] Yeah.
[00:39:52.160 --> 00:40:05.840] I also find that a lot of really hardcore Instagram users really forget that there is an entire world outside of it of like options like Patreon and Substack and other social media platforms and all of those things.
[00:40:05.840 --> 00:40:23.120] I find that a whole lot that there's this like tunnel vision that happens when you're in that little scrolly world where you forget that there are other places for you to show up and build your personal brand in a way that feels both more authentic to you and will give you more bang for your even metaphorical buck.
[00:40:23.120 --> 00:40:33.000] Yeah, it's so funny that you say that because whenever I think about my personal brand, I think about real life more so than anything.
[00:40:33.320 --> 00:40:44.280] And going back to the beginning of our conversation and thinking about part of us creating being boss together was creating a place to highlight our own personal brands on our own term.
[00:40:44.280 --> 00:40:50.040] Because we came from a world of blogging where you don't get as much nuance and back and forth conversation.
[00:40:50.040 --> 00:40:55.800] It's a big investment for our listeners to turn on this podcast and to tune in.
[00:40:55.800 --> 00:40:58.920] And they're listening to us for hours and hours and hours.
[00:40:59.240 --> 00:41:01.720] And they're more forgiving of our mistakes.
[00:41:01.720 --> 00:41:03.960] And we're creating more of a connection with them.
[00:41:03.960 --> 00:41:25.320] Whenever we get together with bosses at conferences or different events, we, I know that it's like a parasocial relationship, but we also really feel like we know you as well because you're listening and we're attracting and we're all kind of the kinds of people that would be friends anyway, right?
[00:41:25.640 --> 00:41:33.320] So it really does create this, what feels like, you know, a really true connection or the beginning of a true connection, right?
[00:41:33.960 --> 00:41:41.240] And it's so funny because whenever I left being boss, part of it was because it wasn't feeling quite true anymore.
[00:41:41.240 --> 00:41:46.920] And in service of my own personal brand and to grow and evolve, I had to change platforms.
[00:41:46.920 --> 00:41:49.640] And that was really, really painful.
[00:41:49.640 --> 00:41:51.640] I didn't want to leave.
[00:41:51.640 --> 00:41:59.080] And then in some ways, leaving gave me the space to nurture and cultivate, okay, who am I now?
[00:41:59.080 --> 00:42:00.200] Who am I growing into?
[00:42:00.200 --> 00:42:03.720] Who do I aspire to be without being boss?
[00:42:04.040 --> 00:42:09.480] And then also there was a pandemic, which like kind of threw all of us for a loop of identity.
[00:42:09.480 --> 00:42:11.960] And yeah, and that was wild.
[00:42:12.680 --> 00:42:27.120] But, you know, coming back to it, like, I do think of having a personal brand as creating an impression and reputation online and offline, but even more offline than on, or like in those face-to-face conversations with my clients.
[00:42:27.120 --> 00:42:34.080] Yes, I think the same thing whenever I think about where it is that I'm, you know, really building a personal brand.
[00:42:34.080 --> 00:42:38.720] And I am here every week continuing to share the things and all the things.
[00:42:38.720 --> 00:42:49.360] But, and this is definitely one expression of my personal brand, but it is really an incredibly small expression of my personal brand.
[00:42:49.360 --> 00:42:51.760] It is the one that currently, you know, gets the most reach.
[00:42:51.760 --> 00:42:52.400] And I love that.
[00:42:52.400 --> 00:42:53.280] And I love being here.
[00:42:53.280 --> 00:42:59.760] And I love continuing to evolve my own, you know, experiences of business and share it with you, et cetera.
[00:43:00.080 --> 00:43:09.200] But when I'm really, when I'm really cultivating my personal brand, it's when I'm getting dressed in the morning, right?
[00:43:09.200 --> 00:43:17.440] It's when, and I've had some funny conversations with folks too, about how my office is now across the street from my shop.
[00:43:17.440 --> 00:43:22.720] And so sometimes I'm like, or not daily, a couple times a day, really.
[00:43:22.720 --> 00:43:31.120] I'm like the really stylish shopkeep who goes strutting across like, you know, Main Street Chattanooga a couple of times a day.
[00:43:31.520 --> 00:43:33.360] You're your own rom-com.
[00:43:33.680 --> 00:43:34.000] I am.
[00:43:34.240 --> 00:43:37.360] You have like a little soundtrack playing in your head at the same time.
[00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:40.800] Do you pretend like you know Hathaway and Devil Wars Prada?
[00:43:41.120 --> 00:43:46.880] I'm going to make a sound, a sound, a playlist for myself, literally for this.
[00:43:47.360 --> 00:43:54.080] Because like that is really, that's really where, that's a piece of where I'm cultivating.
[00:43:54.640 --> 00:43:57.440] I'm not all about what I'm wearing when I cross the street these days.
[00:43:57.440 --> 00:44:01.160] That's not the only place I play, but it is something that I think about often.
[00:44:01.160 --> 00:44:03.240] A friend of mine, again, recently made a joke about it.
[00:44:03.240 --> 00:44:04.680] And I was like, wow, you're right.
[00:43:59.840 --> 00:44:05.720] I am that person.
[00:44:06.040 --> 00:44:11.160] I'm the person who has the, like, I'm, I'm the rock, the crystal store owner, right?
[00:44:11.160 --> 00:44:15.640] Who, you know, is building this really great team and has this really cute shop and all of these things.
[00:44:15.640 --> 00:44:21.000] And I'm just jaunting across the street pretty consistently in whatever bitch boots I got on that day.
[00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:27.960] And it is like a whole personal brand vibe that I think really contributes to both of the brands that it is that I am building.
[00:44:27.960 --> 00:44:37.400] Both Almanac, as I'm dripping in crystals, and being boss, as I am like making that traffic stop so I can walk across the street or whatever it may be.
[00:44:37.400 --> 00:44:45.400] And then very much so in the conversations that I'm having, where it is that I'm showing up, how it is that I'm engaging with people in real life.
[00:44:45.400 --> 00:45:01.160] I am consistently, you know, cultivating this personal brand around myself that really contributes to both of the things that I have going on, as well as my family and representing my friend group and those sorts of things.
[00:45:01.160 --> 00:45:19.800] So, you know, it's, and as someone who's not on social media anymore, who is not engaging in any online content creation, with the exception of literally this show right here, I am cultivating the majority of my personal brand offline these days.
[00:45:19.800 --> 00:45:21.480] And I love that.
[00:45:21.480 --> 00:45:23.240] It's no less important.
[00:45:23.720 --> 00:45:32.840] When I dance, it's to real music on my own terms and not for a video for the internet, or whatever it may be.
[00:45:32.840 --> 00:45:42.680] And so, you can very much so, just as much cultivate a personal brand around yourself if you want nothing to do with social media at all.
[00:45:42.680 --> 00:45:44.680] What you were saying about getting dressed here reminds me.
[00:45:44.680 --> 00:45:50.000] Remember, whenever my word of the year was style, I think it was three or four or five years ago.
[00:45:50.320 --> 00:45:55.360] Yeah, it might be hard to find which episode that is, but I talked about personal branding there as well.
[00:45:55.360 --> 00:46:00.800] And that is a big part of my personal brand: showing up as I want to be seen, right?
[00:46:00.800 --> 00:46:02.480] And that does take some effort.
[00:46:02.480 --> 00:46:09.840] And so, I don't want people to think that the effort of thinking about how you're showing up negates the authenticity of it.
[00:46:10.160 --> 00:46:21.840] So, going into how to like really have this, like, that's at a very important note that I want to pinpoint.
[00:46:21.840 --> 00:46:28.080] This idea that doing in that way is not less authentic.
[00:46:28.080 --> 00:46:33.040] I think it actually, when you are thinking about it in that way, it makes it more intentional.
[00:46:33.040 --> 00:46:35.840] And I think, therefore, more authentic.
[00:46:35.840 --> 00:46:46.000] Like, I am being much more authentic whenever I am getting dressed in the morning to come to work than I am if you're just going to be seeing half my body on Zoom all day, right?
[00:46:46.240 --> 00:46:51.760] Or if I'm going to be just popping in for like a quick reel or whatever it may be.
[00:46:51.760 --> 00:47:04.960] Like, that I find though, the more thought you put into it, the more authentic and intentional it really is, as opposed to just like a quick hit for the day, whatever that may be.
[00:47:04.960 --> 00:47:06.000] Absolutely.
[00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:13.760] I once had someone ask me when I was doing some creative coaching, well, isn't the most authentic version of yourself like naked in the woods?
[00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:18.640] And I was like, Well, yeah, maybe the most authentic version of you is, but not for me necessarily.
[00:47:18.640 --> 00:47:19.200] The most authentic.
[00:47:19.360 --> 00:47:22.640] Your body, not your soul, right?
[00:47:22.440 --> 00:47:23.280] Right, right.
[00:47:23.280 --> 00:47:28.960] Is dressed like I'm about to fight some zombies in the post-apocalypse.
[00:47:28.960 --> 00:47:34.600] And sometimes the most authentic version of me is wearing a cat eye and red lipstick.
[00:47:29.840 --> 00:47:35.480] And sometimes it's not.
[00:47:35.720 --> 00:47:41.080] Sometimes the most authentic version of me has like a short platinum blonde buzz cut.
[00:47:41.080 --> 00:47:46.040] And other times she has like long, curly 80s shag, right?
[00:47:46.360 --> 00:48:03.080] So it's, it really is about what you said, being intentional and really kind of shaping who it is that you want to be and putting that intention into it and really having the courage to bring that intentionality into your day, into who you are.
[00:48:03.080 --> 00:48:05.000] And it doesn't necessarily have to be what you're wearing.
[00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:07.400] It could also be how you spend your time, right?
[00:48:07.400 --> 00:48:11.080] So that could be blocking off white space to meditate.
[00:48:11.080 --> 00:48:23.480] It could be blocking off time to work on that painting or to, you know, work with your hands and make something creative or that time to work on your fitness and exercise or go for a walk, right?
[00:48:23.480 --> 00:48:26.120] So it does take intentionality.
[00:48:26.120 --> 00:48:34.760] And I always thought that, you know, knowing who you are was kind of a finish line and that one day I would arrive and I would know who I am.
[00:48:34.760 --> 00:48:37.560] But there is no finish line to knowing who you are.
[00:48:37.560 --> 00:48:46.600] It is a constant act of self-discovery, which takes that daily intentionality of asking yourself, okay, who am I?
[00:48:46.600 --> 00:48:48.440] How do I want to show up?
[00:48:48.440 --> 00:48:49.960] What do I want to be?
[00:48:50.280 --> 00:48:56.200] The goal is always to become more of who you want to be and who you aspire to be.
[00:48:56.200 --> 00:48:58.760] The goal is to always become more of yourself.
[00:48:58.760 --> 00:49:10.200] So I do have a couple of exercises for this, and they do come from the Braid Branding DIY workbook, which you can find at braidcreative.com/slash workbook.
[00:49:10.440 --> 00:49:25.920] But before I go into that, actually, one exercise I want to bring up, which I think is one of the most important, you can find in our book that we wrote and published together called Being Boss, Take Control of your Work and own Who You Are.
[00:49:25.920 --> 00:49:30.480] No, my God, live life on your own terms and live life on your terms.
[00:49:30.480 --> 00:49:32.560] We have a long title.
[00:49:32.560 --> 00:49:36.160] It is being boss, take control of your work and live life on your own terms.
[00:49:36.160 --> 00:49:36.800] There you go.
[00:49:36.800 --> 00:49:39.600] We have a whole chunk in there on values.
[00:49:39.600 --> 00:49:46.720] And I find that values is one of the things that you can find a running theme throughout your life, right?
[00:49:46.720 --> 00:49:52.640] So we've talked ad nauseum about values on this show and really what ours are.
[00:49:52.640 --> 00:49:55.760] So, Emily, one of your values is freedom.
[00:49:55.760 --> 00:50:06.640] One of my values is creativity and really making sure that our resources and where we allocate those resources are going toward those values.
[00:50:06.640 --> 00:50:13.920] So, for you, the value of freedom might mean that you're growing your team so that you have more time to do the things that you want to do.
[00:50:13.920 --> 00:50:25.760] For me, the value of creativity might look like blocking out time to explore my creativity, to collage things together, to make a painting, whatever that might look like, right?
[00:50:25.760 --> 00:50:29.520] So, really look at your values and look at what they've been through.
[00:50:29.520 --> 00:50:32.160] Try and find like themes through your whole life.
[00:50:32.160 --> 00:50:34.080] So, you can check out more of that in our book.
[00:50:34.080 --> 00:50:37.120] But then, two other exercises that are really easy.
[00:50:37.120 --> 00:50:39.680] You don't even need to buy my workbook to do this.
[00:50:39.680 --> 00:50:42.160] You can sketch it out on a piece of paper.
[00:50:42.160 --> 00:50:47.760] One is called Line in the Sand, and it is simply drawing a line down a sheet of paper.
[00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:53.360] And on the left side, title it, I am not, and on the right side, title it, I am.
[00:50:53.680 --> 00:51:01.560] Sometimes, really figuring out who you are starts with knowing what you are not, and really thinking about, okay, I am not.
[00:50:59.840 --> 00:51:05.080] This could be your business, your offerings, your services.
[00:51:05.400 --> 00:51:10.600] It could also be things that you are not that you see in other people that you think are gross, you know?
[00:51:10.600 --> 00:51:15.320] So, like, I am not, I don't know, but I'm not a bigot.
[00:51:15.320 --> 00:51:17.240] I am not closed-minded.
[00:51:17.240 --> 00:51:23.160] I am not, it could be a lot of things, but it could also be things that other people might not agree with, you know?
[00:51:23.160 --> 00:51:32.360] So, it might even be things like, I'm not generous, you know, like that might sound awful on the surface, but in reality, it kind of means something else.
[00:51:32.360 --> 00:51:39.160] So, really get, get into it, and don't just think about someone else, what they might think if they were to read this piece of paper.
[00:51:39.160 --> 00:51:42.920] And then, on the right-hand side, you want to write down all of the things that you are.
[00:51:42.920 --> 00:51:44.600] So, I am trustworthy.
[00:51:44.600 --> 00:51:45.640] I am loyal.
[00:51:45.640 --> 00:51:47.080] I am smart.
[00:51:47.080 --> 00:51:47.960] I am creative.
[00:51:47.960 --> 00:51:54.120] Like, write down all of the things that you are and the things that you probably want to be known for.
[00:51:54.120 --> 00:52:00.280] Like, if you don't feel, if you feel like it's a stretch, put an asterisk around it and think about what do I need to do?
[00:52:00.280 --> 00:52:05.160] How do I need to behave to become more of this I am that I want to be?
[00:52:05.480 --> 00:52:07.560] Any thoughts on that exercise, Emily?
[00:52:07.560 --> 00:52:09.480] No, those are, those are definitely the exercises.
[00:52:09.560 --> 00:52:10.840] Are you going to do it?
[00:52:11.480 --> 00:52:12.120] Well, it's funny.
[00:52:12.120 --> 00:52:14.280] I was actually looking at some of my notes that I took for this.
[00:52:14.280 --> 00:52:24.120] I actually, one of the things that I, one of the things, I'll go ahead and share it now because I was thinking I could work back, work back into this, but I think this is probably a perfect moment.
[00:52:24.120 --> 00:52:30.840] I sort of had a realization around sort of the parameters of this exact exercise a couple of years ago.
[00:52:30.840 --> 00:52:39.320] I think when we were making the transition, maybe you were leaving Being Boss, and I was, you know, thinking about sort of the future of being boss versus almanac.
[00:52:39.320 --> 00:52:48.560] Like, what everything was sort of up in the air, and I needed to like really get in there with what it is that I wanted and how I wanted to maneuver myself over the next couple of years.
[00:52:49.200 --> 00:52:59.680] And one of the things that came to me as I was doing some journaling, I actually even think I was doing some yoga because if I remember correctly, and I've mentioned these before, I have a couple pages in my journal.
[00:52:59.680 --> 00:53:06.720] Usually, when I'm doing yoga or meditating, there are just like these like one-liners just on a page by itself that are just there.
[00:53:06.720 --> 00:53:17.280] And one of them that I think about often is: I wrote down, I don't want to be famous, I want to have a fantastic product, right?
[00:53:17.520 --> 00:53:20.000] And so, similar, like, I am, and I am not.
[00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:25.120] Like, I want and I don't want, I think, is another way that you can think about this.
[00:53:25.120 --> 00:53:28.800] And sort of pairing those things up can be really powerful.
[00:53:28.800 --> 00:53:42.720] Because I think one of the allures of a personal brand in that, like, sort of like top-level, I want to be famous situation is that you can begin making a lot of decisions based on ego, right?
[00:53:42.720 --> 00:53:44.880] Because, like, you are the brand.
[00:53:44.880 --> 00:53:51.680] And so, you're not making really great strategic moves if you're being driven too much by ego.
[00:53:51.680 --> 00:54:00.720] And sometimes you feel like you need to be putting yourself out there way more than you really do just to sell what it is that you are trying to sell.
[00:54:00.720 --> 00:54:05.600] And so, I wrote that down and something I think about often.
[00:54:05.600 --> 00:54:08.640] And I make a lot of decisions through that lens as well.
[00:54:08.640 --> 00:54:18.720] Like, is this going to help me be famous, which I don't care to be, or is this going to help me create a fantastic product, which is really why it is that I'm here?
[00:54:18.720 --> 00:54:47.960] And so, as you were talking about that exercise, I looked back and I saw that and thought, like, that is a great example of how, when you get clear on what you are and what you are not, or what you want and what you don't want, how you can have these sayings or these like these prompts that can guide you through developing whatever personal brand it is that you want within the constraints of how it is that you actually want to express yourself within it.
[00:54:47.960 --> 00:54:54.040] That makes me think about creating boundaries around your personal brand, which is also incredibly important.
[00:54:54.040 --> 00:55:08.360] And so, I'll come back to my other exercise that I wanted to share, but whenever I think about having a personal brand and really thinking about what you want or what you don't want or who you are and who you are not, you also have to think about what you're willing to share and what you're not willing to share.
[00:55:08.360 --> 00:55:13.720] And so, as Brene Brown says, share what is vulnerable, not what is intimate.
[00:55:13.720 --> 00:55:16.760] I think that she even said that on our podcast, right?
[00:55:17.080 --> 00:55:34.600] And so, with that, I kind of think about a few things, like a few other prompts to add to yours, which is whenever I'm sharing anything that feels somehow related to my personal brand, I have to ask, is this in line with my integrity?
[00:55:34.600 --> 00:55:35.480] Right?
[00:55:35.480 --> 00:55:37.160] Am I being honest?
[00:55:37.160 --> 00:55:38.840] Am I being truthful?
[00:55:38.840 --> 00:55:40.840] Does this feel right?
[00:55:41.160 --> 00:55:43.880] And then I also ask, why am I sharing this?
[00:55:43.880 --> 00:55:55.400] And sometimes I'm sharing really dumb stuff, like my Kathleen on the scene content where like an animal is screaming in my backyard and I'm scared, right?
[00:55:55.400 --> 00:55:57.960] Or just silly things, right?
[00:55:57.960 --> 00:56:00.040] That don't really bring value.
[00:56:00.040 --> 00:56:02.840] But what it does bring is connection.
[00:56:02.840 --> 00:56:07.320] It brings humor and connection, which are also within my values.
[00:56:07.320 --> 00:56:09.320] Like humor is a big one.
[00:56:09.320 --> 00:56:12.440] So, like, I asked myself, is this in line with my integrity?
[00:56:12.440 --> 00:56:13.800] Why am I sharing this?
[00:56:13.800 --> 00:56:14.960] Is it helpful?
[00:56:14.960 --> 00:56:16.320] Is it valuable?
[00:56:14.600 --> 00:56:18.240] And will it foster connection?
[00:56:18.560 --> 00:56:23.040] You know, and so if it's, if it checks those boxes, I'll share it.
[00:56:23.040 --> 00:56:32.240] And then the other thing I want to say whenever it comes to a personal brand is sometimes you feel like your identity is at stake whenever your personal brand is challenged, right?
[00:56:32.240 --> 00:56:36.720] And it can kind of really shake you up if you don't have the confidence to show up.
[00:56:36.720 --> 00:56:43.360] So for me, having a personal brand also means being willing to change my mind and being willing to apologize.
[00:56:43.360 --> 00:56:48.480] That is a huge skill that you need to develop when you have a personal brand.
[00:56:48.480 --> 00:56:51.120] And it doesn't mean that you have to be sorry about everything.
[00:56:51.120 --> 00:57:06.960] It doesn't mean I got in a place where I felt like I was having to put up a disclaimer every single time I came on this podcast because I felt like everything I said was going to disappoint somebody or hurt somebody's feelings, even if that wasn't my intention, right?
[00:57:06.960 --> 00:57:10.240] That just kind of happens whenever you start to grow and build an audience.
[00:57:10.240 --> 00:57:18.400] But there are times that an apology is truly warranted or the ability to change your mind in the face of new information.
[00:57:18.720 --> 00:57:21.360] So those are some important things as well.
[00:57:21.360 --> 00:57:22.000] Yeah.
[00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:22.320] Okay.
[00:57:22.320 --> 00:57:23.760] What's your next exercise?
[00:57:23.760 --> 00:57:27.120] I want to go back to another exercise, which is a dinner party.
[00:57:27.120 --> 00:57:33.840] I can't remember if I've ever shared this on being boss before or not, but it is one of my very favorite exercises.
[00:57:34.480 --> 00:57:39.440] Well, we're going to share it again because I think that it's worthwhile and it's one worth remembering.
[00:57:39.440 --> 00:57:46.400] So dinner party is an exercise that we use with our one-on-one clients whenever we're talking about content creation.
[00:57:46.400 --> 00:57:52.560] And it is an exercise that is also included in the workbook, but you don't need the worksheet necessarily to do it.
[00:57:52.560 --> 00:58:10.840] What you want to do is think about a dinner table and that you have like four, five, six chairs around it, and you are inviting your favorite people to the table, whether it's celebrities or historical figures or fictional characters or someone that you know in real life or even archetypes.
[00:58:10.840 --> 00:58:16.760] I've seen people do this with even like astrological signs or tarot cards.
[00:58:16.760 --> 00:58:32.760] So think about having a dinner party and inviting four to six people or archetypes to the table and thinking about what are their values, what are they wearing, what is the kind of advice that they would give, what kinds of conversations are they having.
[00:58:32.760 --> 00:58:36.280] Really just think about these people and then think about them at dinner together.
[00:58:36.280 --> 00:58:38.760] What are they talking about with each other?
[00:58:38.760 --> 00:58:41.160] And it doesn't matter if you actually know them or not.
[00:58:41.160 --> 00:58:43.720] It's what your impression of them is, right?
[00:58:43.720 --> 00:58:51.400] So you're still making it your own because all of these people sitting at your dinner table are actually aspects of who you are.
[00:58:51.400 --> 00:58:57.560] And they are asked, what they're here to do is to give you courage to show up.
[00:58:57.560 --> 00:59:01.720] They're giving you ideas of how you might show up.
[00:59:01.720 --> 00:59:07.640] And they're really helping you shape kind of who you want to be and the decisions that you're going to make.
[00:59:07.640 --> 00:59:11.720] So that's another exercise that I love for kind of having awareness around your personal brand.
[00:59:11.720 --> 00:59:16.200] And you might find it surprising who has a seat around your dinner table.
[00:59:16.520 --> 00:59:17.160] Lovely.
[00:59:17.160 --> 00:59:17.800] There you go.
[00:59:17.800 --> 00:59:27.080] So for anyone who is thinking about building out their personal brand in whatever capacity, those are some of the Kathleen originals for sure.
[00:59:28.040 --> 00:59:47.600] And I do want to just sort of, I think, finalize this with like, with, I think that personal branding in whatever capacity you choose in the sort of fields where we are, we are choosing to show up and be leaders in whatever capacity that looks like for you.
[00:59:47.600 --> 00:59:50.000] That I'd say it's imperative.
[00:59:50.000 --> 00:59:53.520] I think it's a really important part: highs, lows, whatever.
[00:59:53.520 --> 01:00:02.240] I think if you can get it right, if you can set the boundaries, if you can understand how it is that you yourself is going to be expressing it and what it is that you're cultivating.
[01:00:02.640 --> 01:00:08.480] You know, we did go through a lot of like ew things with it, but I'm here for it.
[01:00:08.480 --> 01:00:09.840] I'm here for it too.
[01:00:09.840 --> 01:00:15.840] And it doesn't mean that you have to be the front-facing influencer for your business.
[01:00:15.840 --> 01:00:16.720] Not at all.
[01:00:16.720 --> 01:00:19.280] You don't have to be wildly popular.
[01:00:19.280 --> 01:00:21.360] You don't have to go viral.
[01:00:21.360 --> 01:00:32.960] But you do need to acknowledge that by bringing your values and your interests into your business, you will find more success both in purpose and in profit.
[01:00:33.280 --> 01:00:36.080] Drop mic.
[01:00:36.400 --> 01:00:37.040] Boom.
[01:00:37.040 --> 01:00:37.680] Insert.
[01:00:37.680 --> 01:00:38.640] Do the worksy boss.
[01:00:39.840 --> 01:00:40.480] Yeah.
[01:00:40.800 --> 01:00:41.360] Perfect.
[01:00:41.360 --> 01:00:42.640] Okay, Kathleen.
[01:00:42.960 --> 01:00:45.200] Thanks for coming and chatting with me about this.
[01:00:45.200 --> 01:00:48.720] This one was long overdue, and I'm glad we could finally get this one out.
[01:00:48.720 --> 01:00:50.160] Thanks for having me.
[01:00:50.160 --> 01:00:50.960] Of course.
[01:00:51.120 --> 01:00:53.440] Where can people find you these days?
[01:00:54.080 --> 01:00:57.280] You can find me at braidcreative.com.
[01:00:57.280 --> 01:00:58.960] I'm still on Instagram.
[01:00:58.960 --> 01:01:00.320] I can't help it.
[01:01:00.320 --> 01:01:02.960] It's at and Kathleen.
[01:01:03.280 --> 01:01:04.960] I love it.
[01:01:05.840 --> 01:01:11.040] You know, and we didn't even get to like, I'm not even that much of a personal brand in my business anymore either.
[01:01:11.040 --> 01:01:13.600] Like, Braid is kind of running on its own now.
[01:01:13.600 --> 01:01:17.200] So maybe this is another conversation for another day.
[01:01:17.200 --> 01:01:21.600] But I'm doing, I'm really, I've diven, divin.
[01:01:21.920 --> 01:01:23.440] I have dove.
[01:01:24.000 --> 01:01:25.040] What is it?
[01:01:25.040 --> 01:01:31.320] I've gone deep into branding and design, and it's really what I'm thinking about a lot.
[01:01:31.480 --> 01:01:38.120] So, this conversation, thanks for having it with me today because I do think about it a lot, and I love thinking about it.
[01:01:38.360 --> 01:01:48.280] I love bringing back this workbook that originated from the e-course that you made me do, Emily, but breathing new life into it and making it more streamlined.
[01:01:48.280 --> 01:01:50.840] So, it's just really a series of exercises.
[01:01:50.840 --> 01:02:01.320] I've been spending a lot of time doing that and really thinking about just being real and being successful and having purpose and making some money.
[01:02:01.320 --> 01:02:03.160] Like, we can't be mad about it.
[01:02:03.160 --> 01:02:05.880] So, anyway, that's where I'm at today.
[01:02:06.200 --> 01:02:07.000] Cool.
[01:02:07.000 --> 01:02:09.480] Is that what's making you feel most boss?
[01:02:09.800 --> 01:02:12.440] No, you know what's making me feel most boss?
[01:02:12.440 --> 01:02:13.000] What?
[01:02:13.320 --> 01:02:15.640] So, my kiddo is nine years old today.
[01:02:15.640 --> 01:02:17.960] Today is his birthday.
[01:02:17.960 --> 01:02:22.600] And I have organized the shit out of his birthday party.
[01:02:22.600 --> 01:02:24.680] And I've done it all in advance.
[01:02:24.680 --> 01:02:32.840] Like, you know, I feel like for the past nine years, I've been very reactionary toward his birthday, like just kind of cobbling together last-minute things.
[01:02:32.840 --> 01:02:41.000] And this year, I really made a big effort to make invitations, to have a theme, to book a really cool venue.
[01:02:41.000 --> 01:02:43.320] He's having an escape room birthday party.
[01:02:43.320 --> 01:02:44.840] The theme is bricks.
[01:02:44.840 --> 01:02:53.960] So, really tying all that together required a lot of my skills as a creative marketer and brander.
[01:02:53.960 --> 01:02:59.160] And, like, making, I'm making little brick cupcakes that the kids will spackle with concrete.
[01:02:59.160 --> 01:03:00.680] The concrete's the icing.
[01:03:00.680 --> 01:03:02.760] Like, really cute stuff.
[01:0

Prompt 2: Key Takeaways

Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.

Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...". 

Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive. 

IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}

Prompt 3: Segments

Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.

For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)  
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion

IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
  "segments": [
    {
      "segment_title": "Topic Discussion", 
      "timestamp": "01:15:30",
      "key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
      "segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
    }
  ]
}

Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.

Prompt 4: Media Mentions

Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:

Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)  
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)

DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names

IMPORTANT: 
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
  "media_mentions": [
    {
      "title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
      "category": "Book",
      "author_artist": "N/A",
      "context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
      "context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
      "timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
    }
  ]
}

If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}

Prompt 5: Context Setup

You are an expert data extractor tasked with analyzing a podcast transcript. 
I will provide you with part 2 of 2 from a podcast transcript. 
I will then ask you to extract different types of information from this content in subsequent messages. Please confirm you have received and understood the transcript content.

Transcript section:
me today because I do think about it a lot, and I love thinking about it.
[01:01:38.360 --> 01:01:48.280] I love bringing back this workbook that originated from the e-course that you made me do, Emily, but breathing new life into it and making it more streamlined.
[01:01:48.280 --> 01:01:50.840] So, it's just really a series of exercises.
[01:01:50.840 --> 01:02:01.320] I've been spending a lot of time doing that and really thinking about just being real and being successful and having purpose and making some money.
[01:02:01.320 --> 01:02:03.160] Like, we can't be mad about it.
[01:02:03.160 --> 01:02:05.880] So, anyway, that's where I'm at today.
[01:02:06.200 --> 01:02:07.000] Cool.
[01:02:07.000 --> 01:02:09.480] Is that what's making you feel most boss?
[01:02:09.800 --> 01:02:12.440] No, you know what's making me feel most boss?
[01:02:12.440 --> 01:02:13.000] What?
[01:02:13.320 --> 01:02:15.640] So, my kiddo is nine years old today.
[01:02:15.640 --> 01:02:17.960] Today is his birthday.
[01:02:17.960 --> 01:02:22.600] And I have organized the shit out of his birthday party.
[01:02:22.600 --> 01:02:24.680] And I've done it all in advance.
[01:02:24.680 --> 01:02:32.840] Like, you know, I feel like for the past nine years, I've been very reactionary toward his birthday, like just kind of cobbling together last-minute things.
[01:02:32.840 --> 01:02:41.000] And this year, I really made a big effort to make invitations, to have a theme, to book a really cool venue.
[01:02:41.000 --> 01:02:43.320] He's having an escape room birthday party.
[01:02:43.320 --> 01:02:44.840] The theme is bricks.
[01:02:44.840 --> 01:02:53.960] So, really tying all that together required a lot of my skills as a creative marketer and brander.
[01:02:53.960 --> 01:02:59.160] And, like, making, I'm making little brick cupcakes that the kids will spackle with concrete.
[01:02:59.160 --> 01:03:00.680] The concrete's the icing.
[01:03:00.680 --> 01:03:02.760] Like, really cute stuff.
[01:03:02.760 --> 01:03:05.880] I feel like a really good mom.
[01:03:05.880 --> 01:03:13.640] Even before this, I ran to the grocery store and picked up a bunch of snacks and treats for him, created a little basket for whenever he gets home from school.
[01:03:13.640 --> 01:03:15.840] So, that's making me feel really boss.
[01:03:14.680 --> 01:03:18.640] Like I feel really boss on the home front.
[01:03:14.760 --> 01:03:20.800] Good, good, nice, nice.
[01:03:21.360 --> 01:03:22.480] Well, how about you?
[01:03:22.480 --> 01:03:23.520] What's making you feel boss?
[01:03:23.680 --> 01:03:25.600] Your bitch boots crossing the street?
[01:03:25.920 --> 01:03:29.440] That does always, that does sometimes, until someone yells at me to walk faster.
[01:03:29.440 --> 01:03:32.080] And I can't walk faster in these boots, sir.
[01:03:32.240 --> 01:03:33.360] Can't do it.
[01:03:33.360 --> 01:03:34.720] I got that a couple days ago.
[01:03:34.720 --> 01:03:35.680] Lily was walking with me.
[01:03:35.680 --> 01:03:37.280] She was upset.
[01:03:37.600 --> 01:03:38.800] Upset about it.
[01:03:38.800 --> 01:03:40.400] What's making me feel most boss?
[01:03:40.960 --> 01:03:51.040] I know this is a touchy one for you in particular, but I'm actually sleeping really, really well and have been for like the past month, which has been great.
[01:03:51.040 --> 01:03:55.280] And I haven't shared this much here, but I had a year of insomnia.
[01:03:55.280 --> 01:03:56.320] So knock on wood.
[01:03:56.320 --> 01:04:03.120] Watch, I'm probably not going to sleep tonight, but I'm talking like nine, ten hours a night these days.
[01:04:03.120 --> 01:04:06.560] And at the moment, that has me feeling most boss.
[01:04:06.560 --> 01:04:08.560] I think I've figured some things out.
[01:04:08.560 --> 01:04:10.160] I'm sleeping too, by the way.
[01:04:10.160 --> 01:04:10.400] Good.
[01:04:10.400 --> 01:04:12.000] I'm glad to hear it.
[01:04:12.000 --> 01:04:12.480] Good.
[01:04:12.480 --> 01:04:13.440] I think it's the meds.
[01:04:13.440 --> 01:04:15.040] The meds are helping.
[01:04:15.360 --> 01:04:16.240] Good.
[01:04:16.240 --> 01:04:16.720] Good.
[01:04:16.720 --> 01:04:18.960] Glad they're doing something.
[01:04:21.520 --> 01:04:23.360] All right, boss, because you're here.
[01:04:23.360 --> 01:04:28.240] I know you want to be a better creative business owner, which means I've got something for you.
[01:04:28.240 --> 01:04:44.880] Each week, the team at Bean Boss is scouring the news, the best entrepreneurial publications, and updates and releases of the apps and tools that run our businesses and is curating it all into a weekly email that delivers the must-know tips and tactics in the realms of mindset, money, and productivity.
[01:04:44.880 --> 01:04:46.720] This email is called Brood.
[01:04:46.720 --> 01:04:52.880] We brew it up for you each week to give you the insight you need to make decisions and move forward in your creative business.
[01:04:52.880 --> 01:04:57.280] Check it out now and sign up for yourself at beanboss.club slash brood.
[01:04:57.280 --> 01:05:02.040] That's beanboss.club slash B-R-E-w-e-d.
[01:04:59.920 --> 01:05:05.960] Now, until next time, do the work, be boss.

Prompt 6: Key Takeaways

Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.

Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...". 

Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive. 

IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}

Prompt 7: Segments

Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.

For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)  
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion

IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
  "segments": [
    {
      "segment_title": "Topic Discussion", 
      "timestamp": "01:15:30",
      "key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
      "segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
    }
  ]
}

Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.

Prompt 8: Media Mentions

Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:

Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)  
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)

DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names

IMPORTANT: 
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
  "media_mentions": [
    {
      "title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
      "category": "Book",
      "author_artist": "N/A",
      "context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
      "context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
      "timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
    }
  ]
}

If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}

Full Transcript

[00:00:00.480 --> 00:00:07.360] Look, payday is awesome, but running payroll, calculating taxes and deductions, staying compliant, that's not easy.
[00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:09.360] Unless, of course, you have Gusto.
[00:00:09.360 --> 00:00:14.400] Gusto is a simple online payroll and benefits tool built for small businesses like yours.
[00:00:14.400 --> 00:00:18.400] Gusto gets your team paid while automatically filing your payroll taxes.
[00:00:18.400 --> 00:00:25.600] Plus, you can offer benefits like 401k, health insurance, and workers' comp, and it makes onboarding new employees a breeze.
[00:00:25.600 --> 00:00:28.320] We love it so much, we really do use it ourselves.
[00:00:28.320 --> 00:00:34.800] And we have four years, and I personally recommend you give it a try, no matter how small your business is.
[00:00:34.800 --> 00:00:38.960] And to sweeten the deal, just for listening today, you also get three months free.
[00:00:38.960 --> 00:00:41.360] Go to gusto.com slash beingboss.
[00:00:41.360 --> 00:00:45.120] That's gusto.com/slash beingboss.
[00:00:46.720 --> 00:00:54.000] Welcome to Being Boss, a podcast for creatives, business owners, and entrepreneurs who want to take control of their work and live life on their own terms.
[00:00:54.000 --> 00:01:01.520] I'm your host, Emily Thompson, and in this episode, I'm joined by my business bestie, Kathleen Shannon, to talk about personal branding.
[00:01:01.520 --> 00:01:07.600] We're exploring the evolution, the pros and cons, and sharing some exercises to help you get it right.
[00:01:07.600 --> 00:01:13.520] You can find all the tools, books, and links we reference on the show notes at www.beingboss.club.
[00:01:13.520 --> 00:01:18.720] And if you like this episode, be sure to subscribe to this show and share us with a friend.
[00:01:20.320 --> 00:01:30.320] Whether you want to grow your business with content marketing, social media, or speaking on stages, or in highly produced Zoom rooms, I've got a podcast recommendation for you.
[00:01:30.320 --> 00:01:40.960] Cue up an episode of The Shine Online, hosted by Natasha Samuel, brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals.
[00:01:40.960 --> 00:02:05.400] On her show, Natasha interviews the brightest entrepreneurs she knows to bring you no-fluff advice, honest discussions about the mental health and lifestyle aspect of entrepreneurship, and actionable strategies and success stories of those who've mastered the art of shining online in this conversational podcast with some hard-hitting episodes on marketing your business filling the latest of her lineup.
[00:02:05.640 --> 00:02:11.080] Give it a search and listen to The Shine Online wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:02:14.600 --> 00:02:25.480] Kathleen Shannon is the co-founder and former co-host of this show, The Being Boss podcast, joining me for the first 240-ish episodes of this show with several one-off episodes since.
[00:02:25.480 --> 00:02:33.000] Kathleen is a partner and creative director at Braid Creative, a branding agency she founded with her sister over 10 years ago.
[00:02:33.000 --> 00:02:41.160] Kathleen has always lived by capturing, shaping, and sharing who she is, whether that's with a blog post, a podcast, or on social media.
[00:02:41.480 --> 00:02:46.200] Welcome back, Kathleen, to this show that you founded with me.
[00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:48.440] I'm so glad to be back.
[00:02:48.440 --> 00:02:53.160] A part of me has almost wanted to say, Can I just come back?
[00:02:53.160 --> 00:02:55.240] You don't even have to pay me.
[00:02:55.560 --> 00:03:03.160] Can I just come back every week and just chat with you about all things being boss, boundaries?
[00:03:04.840 --> 00:03:06.120] Let's start with boundaries.
[00:03:06.120 --> 00:03:11.560] Money, branding, business, taxes.
[00:03:11.880 --> 00:03:12.680] Anytime.
[00:03:12.680 --> 00:03:19.160] And you have a link and you can schedule as many of those slots as you so choose for sure.
[00:03:19.400 --> 00:03:25.560] I think if you were to actually see my recording schedule these days, you'd be like, actually, take that back.
[00:03:26.840 --> 00:03:28.280] Maybe every other one.
[00:03:28.280 --> 00:03:34.920] Yeah, maybe every other because I'm definitely like doing a lot of batching, spending lots of weeks just like Hunkered Down and doing a lot of recording.
[00:03:34.920 --> 00:03:37.400] And you'd be like, never mind.
[00:03:37.400 --> 00:03:42.680] But you are welcome to come back any and every time you ever so choose.
[00:03:42.920 --> 00:03:54.000] And I'm excited about this one today because this is one that you and I have talked about doing for a couple of months, but you've always come back to do something like a little more timely, like we're doing our new year review or whatever it may be.
[00:03:54.000 --> 00:04:00.000] But this is one that we've talked about sort of behind the scenes at least three or four times.
[00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:02.960] And you have notes, I have notes.
[00:04:02.960 --> 00:04:08.640] We're going to be diving into sort of an old topic, but as new people.
[00:04:08.640 --> 00:04:09.760] Here we go.
[00:04:09.760 --> 00:04:10.960] I almost said amen.
[00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:12.320] Do you still say that?
[00:04:12.320 --> 00:04:13.840] You still say that around here?
[00:04:14.880 --> 00:04:17.520] I guess I guess I do sometimes.
[00:04:17.520 --> 00:04:18.560] Amen.
[00:04:18.560 --> 00:04:22.240] It didn't fully make sense, but yes, I'm ready to dive in.
[00:04:22.240 --> 00:04:26.240] I'm so excited to talk about personal branding.
[00:04:26.240 --> 00:04:26.800] Yeah.
[00:04:26.800 --> 00:04:29.600] Why, why this topic?
[00:04:29.920 --> 00:04:38.640] Well, I found that personal branding, you know, we can talk about the history of personal branding and we can talk about the momentum it gained.
[00:04:38.880 --> 00:04:47.440] Like probably 10 years ago, personal branding as we know it became really accessible to people who weren't necessarily celebrities.
[00:04:47.440 --> 00:04:52.560] And I think that that brought a rise to creative entrepreneurship as we know it today.
[00:04:52.560 --> 00:05:00.080] And then within the past couple years, I've seen it really have a backlash and people hate the word personal brand.
[00:05:00.080 --> 00:05:07.520] And so I'm here today to talk about why I think that personal branding is a good thing, but also it can be a bad thing.
[00:05:07.520 --> 00:05:28.240] What to look out for, how you can really own and harness your own personal brand on your terms in order to be more creatively fulfilled and to find success both in who you are as a person and a business, and really just bring who you are into the work that you do.
[00:05:28.240 --> 00:05:31.800] I think that that will never steer you wrong.
[00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:36.200] Again, there are caveats, there are things to be cautious about and to look out for it.
[00:05:36.280 --> 00:05:39.080] And I think that we'll discuss those things as well.
[00:05:39.080 --> 00:05:46.360] But today I'm here to talk about why you can be a person in your business and why that's a good thing.
[00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:54.520] Yeah, this has been a topic that's come up for me as well several times, you know, chatting with you, which is why we're here doing this together, but also with other folks.
[00:05:55.080 --> 00:06:04.600] In particular, actually, Erica, who's been on the show here a couple of times, who is a DEI coach, she works with a lot of people who run personal brands through the lens of DEI coaching.
[00:06:04.600 --> 00:06:13.240] And so there's always some really interesting conversations that come up in sort of that space with her that I've been able to dive in on.
[00:06:13.240 --> 00:06:29.320] And it is the world of personal branding has changed so much over the past decade that, I mean, it definitely warrants at least one conversation as to what is different, how things have shifted and changed, what it is, or where we fall into it.
[00:06:29.320 --> 00:06:40.440] Because I think you and I both came here, even, you know, eight plus years ago from a place of being personal, personally branded and personally branding, being boss.
[00:06:40.440 --> 00:06:48.120] And we've shared on this show some decisions we made around that very early in building this show.
[00:06:48.120 --> 00:06:58.120] And I think, yeah, I'm excited to dive into this because it has been a sort of big evolution that has actually happened really quickly.
[00:06:58.440 --> 00:07:09.320] Going from everyone's a personal brand to, you know, a period of like everyone's sort of making a face when someone says personal, like, I have a personal brand, right?
[00:07:09.320 --> 00:07:13.880] And now I do think it is seeing an interesting sort of resurgence, but an evolution of it.
[00:07:13.880 --> 00:07:16.160] So let's dive into the thing.
[00:07:16.720 --> 00:07:29.120] So, first, I want to talk a little bit about how personal branding has evolved over the past decade and kind of where we saw it begin, which I would say we saw personal branding as we know it today.
[00:07:29.120 --> 00:07:33.520] It really did start in, I would say, around 2008.
[00:07:33.520 --> 00:07:46.560] Now, personal branding has been around for a really long time where celebrities and athletes have been spokespersons for other businesses like cereal or apparel, what have you, right?
[00:07:46.880 --> 00:07:52.160] But the thing about that is that they are then using their image to sell someone else's product.
[00:07:52.160 --> 00:07:55.520] And they're really not bringing a whole lot of their personality to it.
[00:07:55.520 --> 00:07:58.560] They're just bringing their reputation and what they're known for to it.
[00:07:58.560 --> 00:08:00.400] They're bringing their image to it.
[00:08:00.400 --> 00:08:11.360] But I would say around 2008, we all started blogging and we were all blogging in this new way that was attracting audiences.
[00:08:11.360 --> 00:08:19.600] So I especially think of a time whenever mommy blogging was in its heyday, which was, I would say, around 2007, 2008, 2009.
[00:08:19.600 --> 00:08:42.400] And I don't think that we would have used the words personal brand back then, but creative content creators, we weren't even using the word content creators back then either, but creatives were showing up with their personality and they found that they were attracting an audience just by being who they were, oftentimes by sharing the most vulnerable parts of who they were.
[00:08:42.400 --> 00:08:45.840] And then I think from there, people started to realize, oh, I have an audience.
[00:08:45.840 --> 00:08:47.760] What can I do with this?
[00:08:47.760 --> 00:08:59.760] So, that audience then gave way to monetization, whether that was through ads, sponsored content, or creating an offering for purchase, whether that be an e-course or a product or what have you.
[00:09:00.440 --> 00:09:11.480] I even think that even the phrase personal brand maybe came out of a desire to call yourself something other than a blogger, right?
[00:09:11.480 --> 00:09:19.320] Like, yeah, you were blogging, you were calling yourself a blogger, and same thing, like it was very exciting to be a blogger, and then everyone was a blogger.
[00:09:19.320 --> 00:09:22.680] And so, you were like, How am I better than a blogger?
[00:09:22.680 --> 00:09:27.240] I know, I have, I'm, I have built a personal brand, right?
[00:09:27.240 --> 00:09:35.480] And so, I think that person, I think the term personal brand was an evolution out of or being a blogger.
[00:09:35.800 --> 00:09:43.160] And I think for better or worse, the Kardashians really made the word personal brand mainstream.
[00:09:43.160 --> 00:09:52.200] They made it where it became a common household phrase beyond just what us bloggers and content creators were calling ourselves for better or worse.
[00:09:52.200 --> 00:09:59.880] And I have to say that the Kardashians using the word personal brand is probably also what created the backlash against it, right?
[00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:15.000] So, I think that there was like a lot of empowerment once we all realized that we could leverage who we are as people to make more money, not really seeing the dark side of that, which there is a dark side to that.
[00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:20.120] Um, and yeah, the phrase personal brand, it really started to gain some mainstream momentum.
[00:10:20.120 --> 00:10:26.040] And anytime anything becomes mainstream, you're going to see that backlash against it.
[00:10:26.040 --> 00:10:41.080] Um, and you know, I think that ultimately the backlash came from this idea that we're commodifying who we are as a person for profit and then starting to value profit at the expense of who you are as a person.
[00:10:41.080 --> 00:10:42.080] Absolutely.
[00:10:42.080 --> 00:10:42.600] Absolutely.
[00:10:42.600 --> 00:10:50.080] And I see this evolution, if I can, like almost even distill down sort of the era of personal branding that we're talking about.
[00:10:50.400 --> 00:11:03.680] I think of it as, you know, when you got started in, or when what we know as personal branding really sort of started its heyday, it was all about teaching or sharing what you knew, right?
[00:11:03.680 --> 00:11:14.400] You were, you were creating content, you were writing a blog, you were, you know, getting on Twitter or whatever it was, and you were beginning to sort of put what you knew out into the world.
[00:11:14.400 --> 00:11:20.400] And then it was selling what you knew through courses or coaching or whatever it may be.
[00:11:20.400 --> 00:11:32.720] And that sort of evolution turned into a personal brand, really just being you're selling a course or you're selling coaching or some sort of like packaged up version of what it is that you know.
[00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:47.600] These days, it's gone into, or it's really grown into this sort of umbrella term for anyone who is putting themselves out into the world in any sort of capacity, sharing more of who they are.
[00:11:47.920 --> 00:11:58.560] But there is, it's funny, it's sort of gone, a very large section of that has gone back to what you talked about previously with this idea of being an influencer, right?
[00:11:58.560 --> 00:12:09.360] So if you were an athlete hired by Nike to be the face of a new shoe, that's like only the top of the top got that before.
[00:12:09.360 --> 00:12:11.920] Though now anyone can be an influencer.
[00:12:11.920 --> 00:12:15.920] And from that place, they're doing it more or less as a personal brand.
[00:12:15.920 --> 00:12:26.560] So there's influencers, but there's also this content creation that's not so much what you know or what it is that you want to share, but I think a lot of like comedy.
[00:12:26.560 --> 00:12:34.440] There's a lot of people who have built personal brands around their own humor in a way that like is not something you would have thought about.
[00:12:34.600 --> 00:12:45.640] I mean, there was definitely some like comedy bloggers back in the day, but you scroll through TikTok and you know, half of it is folks with funny personal brands or whatever it may be.
[00:12:45.640 --> 00:12:49.320] So it's really grown to encompass a whole lot of things.
[00:12:49.320 --> 00:12:53.880] With I think these days, that influencer bit being there's sort of two backbones.
[00:12:53.880 --> 00:12:59.400] There's this influencer bit, like I'm gonna, I'm going to sell you what I like, right?
[00:12:59.720 --> 00:13:05.240] And then this other backbone is I'm still going to sell you what I know.
[00:13:05.560 --> 00:13:06.360] Absolutely.
[00:13:06.360 --> 00:13:09.000] And the influencer bit is really interesting.
[00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:27.800] And I think that that's also part of the backlash to having a personal brand is that we started to swing the other way of losing some vulnerable authenticity into becoming this curated, perfect image, face-tuned influencer version of selling other people's stuff again.
[00:13:27.800 --> 00:13:36.280] Like it kind of turned into a full circle situation where now influences are just the new unattainable celebrity, right?
[00:13:36.280 --> 00:13:45.640] And so I think that the problem with you know personal branding is that a brand by nature just it lacks a certain amount of humanity, right?
[00:13:45.640 --> 00:13:49.720] A business with a brand is driven by profit, fact.
[00:13:50.040 --> 00:13:54.280] And it doesn't necessarily create an authentic sense of trust or belonging.
[00:13:54.280 --> 00:14:09.160] No matter how much I love, you know, Beyonce, no matter how much Ivy Park I wear, I'm not going to be Beyoncé, and just because I'm wearing Ivy Park does not mean that I belong to a group of the beehive, for example, right?
[00:14:09.160 --> 00:14:15.440] That's not necessarily what does it, but that's what marketing and advertising and consumerism tell us, right?
[00:14:14.440 --> 00:14:17.360] That's that's the big lie of it all, right?
[00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:28.320] And here's the deal: a business and a brand can never be as complex or nuanced as a whole person that contains multitudes, right?
[00:14:28.640 --> 00:14:50.320] So, I think that for me, where I started to feel my own personal backlash against a personal brand is that I think that these influencers, for example, promote a level of unsustainable perfectionism, and it can really put some walls around how you grow and evolve as a person, right?
[00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:57.040] So, if you're known for something, it's really hard to publicly change your mind or try new things.
[00:14:57.040 --> 00:15:04.240] You want to keep doing what works, you want to keep doing what you've kind of pigeonholed yourself into being known for.
[00:15:04.240 --> 00:15:27.280] And then, there's also the idea that once you're known for something and you have a bigger audience, you're going to disappoint people, you are going to make mistakes, you are going to run the risk of being canceled, and you can also dangerously end up tying your worth and success as a person to the success and profitability of your business.
[00:15:27.280 --> 00:15:28.640] Yeah, for sure.
[00:15:28.640 --> 00:15:29.200] Yes, to all of you.
[00:15:29.280 --> 00:15:30.560] That's the danger of it all.
[00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:32.000] That is the danger of it.
[00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:40.000] And I would say, one of the things that I don't love about it, and I've like I've worked that entire spectrum, right?
[00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:43.120] I'm actually currently working on both ends of that spectrum.
[00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:48.320] And in a big way, being boss is still a very personal brand for me.
[00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:57.840] Um, though I have very intentionally removed myself from it more than I could, like, I could really make being boss into a very personal brand if I wanted to.
[00:15:57.840 --> 00:16:04.040] It's set up to be that, but I don't want to be that because on the other end of the spectrum, I have Almanac.
[00:16:04.280 --> 00:16:13.560] And though, what people experience of it online, and especially bosses, there is this like essence of Emily in it that you know and you see and you feel and all of these things.
[00:16:13.560 --> 00:16:25.080] But I would say easily these days, 98% of our customers, all of the foot traffic who come off the street into our store to buy things from us, have no idea who I am.
[00:16:25.080 --> 00:16:29.400] And I love that so much.
[00:16:29.400 --> 00:16:47.880] Because, and one of the reasons why I love that, and I never really connected this until I was thinking about this not too long ago, is that one of the one of the hard things about building a personal brand is for you to gain the trust of a potential customer to turn them into a customer.
[00:16:47.880 --> 00:16:49.800] You have to sell twice.
[00:16:49.800 --> 00:16:56.280] You have to sell them on who you are, and then you have to sell them on the thing that you're selling.
[00:16:56.280 --> 00:16:59.000] You have to sell your customers two times.
[00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:10.680] If you are building a brand that is not a personal brand, but is just a business that sells something, you only really have to sell them one time on the thing that you're selling them.
[00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:16.040] And that is so much easier than selling two times.
[00:17:16.040 --> 00:17:21.400] So I am, I'm definitely in England where we disagree a little.
[00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:23.640] Go for it.
[00:17:23.640 --> 00:17:24.040] How so?
[00:17:24.360 --> 00:17:25.000] Sorry, keep going.
[00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:25.480] Keep going.
[00:17:25.480 --> 00:17:26.760] I'm putting a pin in it.
[00:17:27.080 --> 00:17:29.880] No, it's just, I don't even remember what I was going to say next.
[00:17:29.880 --> 00:17:31.240] It's just, I'm sorry.
[00:17:31.240 --> 00:17:34.280] It's a preferred method for me, I think.
[00:17:34.280 --> 00:17:38.360] Whenever I think about it, whenever you said that, I was like, ooh, juicy.
[00:17:38.360 --> 00:17:39.480] That is juicy.
[00:17:39.480 --> 00:17:42.840] Like, having just the idea of selling someone twice.
[00:17:42.840 --> 00:17:43.320] Yeah.
[00:17:43.880 --> 00:17:44.200] Yeah.
[00:17:44.200 --> 00:17:46.240] Like, let's just do it once, right?
[00:17:46.240 --> 00:17:48.560] So maybe that's where influencers have it right.
[00:17:44.840 --> 00:17:50.320] They're just selling someone once.
[00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:55.920] They are selling the company that they are promoting and advertising for, right?
[00:17:55.920 --> 00:17:59.760] But then essentially, they're kind of just a breathing, walking advertisement.
[00:17:59.760 --> 00:18:03.120] And that feels kind of not great to me.
[00:18:03.120 --> 00:18:05.120] Like, that's why I never wanted to be an influencer.
[00:18:05.120 --> 00:18:07.760] That's why I've never sold anyone else's products.
[00:18:07.760 --> 00:18:10.320] That's why I don't do affiliates, right?
[00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:29.920] However, with selling people twice and selling them on first on who you are and then selling them on what you know, I like to think of using your personal brand to attract the people that are like you and have similar interests and want to buy what you have to offer.
[00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:40.480] So I think of it as more of an attraction and then conversion to selling versus selling them twice, even though I think that it's just semantics is what we're talking about here.
[00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:44.960] Like, and I think that by attracting people, you're also selling them.
[00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:50.880] But even whenever it comes to selling people on my products at Braid, for example, I never think of it as selling.
[00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:53.360] I think of it as simply explaining what I do.
[00:18:53.360 --> 00:18:55.200] And then if you want to buy it, go for it.
[00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:57.760] But it's not my job to convince you of anything.
[00:18:57.760 --> 00:19:02.160] It's not my job to convince you to like me, to follow me, or to buy me.
[00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:12.560] However, I believe that if I can show up as I am and share what I know, you are going to like and buy what I've got to offer if it's a good fit for you.
[00:19:12.560 --> 00:19:13.920] And that's great.
[00:19:14.960 --> 00:19:27.600] I think you're right in a lot of situations, but I think that there is a lot that happens in personal branding where it really is selling on my version of the thing and then the thing.
[00:19:27.600 --> 00:19:29.760] So I think of like coaches in particular.
[00:19:29.880 --> 00:19:37.080] Like I'm not just going to hire any old coach who's going to, like, there's a million out there that can help me, you know, in my sales tactics or whatever.
[00:19:37.080 --> 00:19:45.160] I have to buy you first, or like, I have to buy into you first before I buy into working with you second.
[00:19:45.640 --> 00:19:58.520] And even for you and designers, like that's also something where like you are selling your, like you are attracting, but generally selling with your style first and then the actual thing second.
[00:19:58.920 --> 00:20:07.240] Whereas with a rock shop, like they're just gonna walk in and buy the rock and they do not care at all who's selling it.
[00:20:07.240 --> 00:20:07.560] Yeah.
[00:20:07.560 --> 00:20:08.040] Yes.
[00:20:08.040 --> 00:20:10.760] And I think it's a both and situation.
[00:20:10.760 --> 00:20:19.400] I think the flip side of that very same coin, for example, is I recently hired a pelvic floor physical therapist, right?
[00:20:19.400 --> 00:20:33.320] And I was, because I pee myself a little bit whenever I jump on a trampoline, because nine years ago today, I spent an hour and a half pushing a sweet baby boy out of my body and it did a little bit of damage, right?
[00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:42.040] So I started, I got into some sort of like pelvic floor algorithm on Instagram and started following a couple of pelvic floor therapists.
[00:20:42.040 --> 00:20:45.320] And they convinced me that this is fixable.
[00:20:45.320 --> 00:20:53.160] Even nine years later, I can fix my body so that I can just do a little jaunt across the street and not pee myself.
[00:20:53.160 --> 00:20:56.680] I can sneeze unexpectedly and not pee myself.
[00:20:56.680 --> 00:21:00.680] I can get the flu and start coughing and not pee myself, right?
[00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:04.760] So I followed a couple of people and I had a call with a gal.
[00:21:04.760 --> 00:21:07.720] She saw that I was following her and she was like, hey, what made you follow me?
[00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:13.000] And I was like, oh, well, I'm interested in not peeing myself anymore when I do jumping jacks.
[00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:18.640] So I had a 15-minute call with her that turned into an hour and she was selling me hard.
[00:21:18.640 --> 00:21:24.480] And then she posted something on Instagram from another account that was like.
[00:21:24.800 --> 00:21:26.880] not a feminist, but feminine.
[00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:32.800] Or like, you know, the handle was something that was against my values because it was like anti-feminism.
[00:21:32.800 --> 00:21:45.440] And then I was following another gal who's a PT physical therapist, kind of offering the same kind of tips and advice, but also giving more away for free, like explicitly sharing specific exercises that you can do on Instagram.
[00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:47.760] So one, she was giving it all away for free.
[00:21:47.760 --> 00:21:54.480] And then two, she was posting things around social justice that are aligned with my values.
[00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:56.560] And so I decided to hire her.
[00:21:56.560 --> 00:22:04.640] And I hired her not just because of what she knew and because she was generously sharing it, but because of who she was as a person.
[00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:07.920] Like I just thought that she was really cool and someone that I would be friends with.
[00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:19.920] So the flip side of that same queen that you're talking about, like being able to sell rocks, well, then if I can buy rocks from anywhere, I would rather buy rocks from the person that I love for who they are, which is you as Emily.
[00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:27.760] I think it's both and though, where you're not entirely reliant upon people knowing you and liking you in order to buy your product.
[00:22:27.760 --> 00:22:35.200] Like you could also just have really good SEO that's like crystals, rocks, magic, Chattanooga, right?
[00:22:35.520 --> 00:22:36.720] And sell.
[00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:44.720] But then also, and when people show up and they connect with you as a person, they're like, whoa, that chick is awesome.
[00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:46.000] And they didn't even know you had a podcast.
[00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:47.680] And they start listening to your podcast.
[00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:50.640] Or podcast listeners are like, wait, I need some rocks.
[00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:52.880] I might as well buy them from Emily.
[00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:53.120] Right.
[00:22:53.120 --> 00:22:55.920] So, I think that that's the both and of it.
[00:22:55.920 --> 00:22:57.040] For sure, for sure.
[00:22:57.040 --> 00:22:59.440] And we're going to be getting into this in a minute.
[00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:04.440] Even as I say all those things, I feel like personal brand is always the fallback, right?
[00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:07.240] Let's say the rock business doesn't work, right?
[00:23:07.240 --> 00:23:17.160] Whatever it may be, I can still go write a substack newsletter about any and all kinds of things, right?
[00:23:17.160 --> 00:23:19.160] And still sort of fall back on that.
[00:23:19.160 --> 00:23:24.520] And even now, I am still like, I have a foot on both sides of that fence, right?
[00:23:24.760 --> 00:23:39.800] I think that there is something to be said about, um, so maybe the validity of each, whether you want to choose a personal brand and do that thing, or you want to not, you just want to build a brand that is definitely infused with your personality, right?
[00:23:39.800 --> 00:23:45.160] You're still, there is still a branding element, but it has less to do with me.
[00:23:45.160 --> 00:23:48.840] And I don't have to sell them on who I am at all.
[00:23:48.840 --> 00:23:51.720] I just have to sell them on the values of my brand.
[00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:59.800] I love that you said the fallback is your personal brand because what that says to me is that no matter what happens, you can trust yourself.
[00:23:59.800 --> 00:24:07.080] You can trust who you are as a person to show up and get it done and to do what you need to do.
[00:24:07.080 --> 00:24:09.560] You cannot trust rocks in the same way.
[00:24:09.560 --> 00:24:15.960] You cannot trust the Instagram algorithm in the same way, but you can trust you and who you are.
[00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:18.680] And that's the power of a personal brand.
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[00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:56.640] Okay, then we just talked about all the like dark sides because there are some dark sides to a personal brand.
[00:24:56.640 --> 00:25:06.160] And I think, you know, it's funny because whenever you and I started out, what were the dark sides of a personal brand?
[00:25:07.120 --> 00:25:08.960] Like, there were none.
[00:25:09.280 --> 00:25:10.160] There were none.
[00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:13.840] I mean, the whole environment wasn't as contentious as it is now.
[00:25:13.840 --> 00:25:16.400] There wasn't the risk for cancellation.
[00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:25.520] There wasn't so much, it didn't seem as like hyper-critical then as it does now, regardless of the size of your audience.
[00:25:25.520 --> 00:25:26.080] Indeed.
[00:25:26.080 --> 00:25:29.840] Whereas now it's something that really should be weighed.
[00:25:30.320 --> 00:25:34.080] Or, and it's funny, I think we'll even get into this in a minute as well.
[00:25:34.080 --> 00:25:42.720] I think it's something that people actually fall into now more often than maybe they even did back then.
[00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:44.080] But I might be jumping ahead.
[00:25:44.080 --> 00:25:45.120] What's next?
[00:25:45.760 --> 00:25:50.960] Okay, so let's just kind of talk about what a personal brand is now, right?
[00:25:51.280 --> 00:25:56.560] And I think that there is a place for a personal brand, even though we just talked about all the dark sides of it.
[00:25:56.560 --> 00:25:58.880] There is a place for a personal brand.
[00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:06.560] And I think that it's something that as entrepreneurs, we can be aware of and do it on our own terms.
[00:26:06.560 --> 00:26:15.760] So whenever I think about what a personal brand is now, a personal brand is just simply allowing who you are as a person to have a place in your business.
[00:26:15.760 --> 00:26:21.600] This means that your personal interests and hobbies may influence your offerings or your niche.
[00:26:21.600 --> 00:26:28.320] It means that your values as a person will direct your decisions as a business.
[00:26:28.320 --> 00:26:39.880] And I do believe that owning your personal brand can just give you so much confidence and creative fulfillment and connection to your business and to your dream clients or customers.
[00:26:40.120 --> 00:27:02.040] So I think that the tricky part around a personal brand, and this is what I really want to get into, is understanding how you make all of those things that you are a first impression, whether that's a first impression of your business or a first impression of you as the face of your business, and really building a reputation around what it is that you want to be known for and who you actually are.
[00:27:02.360 --> 00:27:04.280] So that's kind of how I think of personal branding.
[00:27:04.280 --> 00:27:05.720] Is there anything that you would add to that?
[00:27:05.720 --> 00:27:10.200] Like how you would define personal brand today in a positive light?
[00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:12.360] Like what it can do for you?
[00:27:12.360 --> 00:27:14.600] I think you hit all the things on the head.
[00:27:14.600 --> 00:27:20.440] I think one of the ways that it's evolved over the years is back then.
[00:27:20.440 --> 00:27:24.120] I actually, I just did some quick Googling while we were doing this.
[00:27:24.120 --> 00:27:42.440] The concept of personal branding actually, or is most attributed to a man named Tom Peters in a book that he wrote, The Brand You 50:50 Ways to Transform Yourself from an Employee Into a Brand that Shouts Distinction, Commit, and Passion.
[00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:45.640] That is, we thought our title was long.
[00:27:46.600 --> 00:27:48.120] Oh, that was his whole title.
[00:27:48.120 --> 00:27:48.680] Yeah, yeah.
[00:27:48.680 --> 00:27:58.280] So, so the idea really came from the sort of employee standpoint, it sounds like, into something a little bit more.
[00:27:58.280 --> 00:28:10.760] Whereas, where we are coming from it now is you are, or actually, before even now, let's go midway where we were talking about, you know, 07, 08, 09, when personal branding became all the buzz.
[00:28:10.760 --> 00:28:20.400] It was more of a like, I'm going to start a blog and sell a course, or I'm going to create a YouTube channel and like literally that's it.
[00:28:21.040 --> 00:28:33.760] Whereas now, personal branding is a whole business model opportunity because the outlets that we have available to us are so numerous.
[00:28:33.760 --> 00:28:37.360] And so, like, Substack didn't exist back then.
[00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:40.800] Content creation was not a term that we were using.
[00:28:40.800 --> 00:28:43.600] We were just showing up in a space and creating the content for that thing.
[00:28:43.600 --> 00:28:47.040] And now it's like multi-channel content creation, right?
[00:28:47.040 --> 00:28:49.440] Where all are we going to be?
[00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:56.320] And so, there, personal branding is not just something you call yourself because you're tired of calling yourself a blogger anymore, right?
[00:28:56.320 --> 00:29:01.760] It is a whole business choice for you to walk into.
[00:29:01.760 --> 00:29:11.600] And I think one of the interesting things that I'm seeing now is those of us who are very business-minded understand that part of personal branding.
[00:29:11.600 --> 00:29:24.320] But you often see people who are going viral now who have to figure out the business part second of they now are a personal brand, whether they realize that's what they were doing or not.
[00:29:24.320 --> 00:29:30.000] And how do they turn that into a business that is their personal brand?
[00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:45.920] So, I think the opportunities for personal branding are so vast that now it really requires you to do at least some considering as to where it is you want your personal brand to live and what it is that it's going to accomplish.
[00:29:46.240 --> 00:29:51.360] I want to say that I think that the going viral part of it is still the exception and not the rule.
[00:29:51.360 --> 00:29:55.520] And I think that you can have a personal brand without stumbling upon it.
[00:29:55.520 --> 00:30:05.000] And that's where I really want to direct the conversation: you can show up as who you are with 10 people following or subscribing or whatever.
[00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:07.080] And you can just show up on one platform.
[00:30:07.080 --> 00:30:16.520] I think that part of this idea that you have to be in all the places with your personal brand is us feeding into what the platforms want from us.
[00:30:16.520 --> 00:30:23.640] The platforms want us to make it seem like we have to be on Instagram, YouTube, Substack, what else?
[00:30:23.640 --> 00:30:25.960] You know, TikTok, like all the things.
[00:30:25.960 --> 00:30:29.800] And that's what's burning people out on the idea of a personal brand.
[00:30:29.800 --> 00:30:48.520] So what I'm really seeing is the rise of Substack, especially, which I think is really, really interesting because I find that people are just going to Substack or just going to Patreon and really self-publishing content on their own terms and kind of sticking their flag in that place that they can own.
[00:30:48.520 --> 00:30:52.360] And they're not feeling the need to be in all the places.
[00:30:52.360 --> 00:31:05.160] So just for our audience that might not know yet, because I didn't know until recently, Substack is an email newsletter platform that allows writers and podcasters to publish directly to their audience.
[00:31:05.160 --> 00:31:14.600] So very much like Patreon, where you can like engage in free content or there are tiers of engagement that you can buy into.
[00:31:14.920 --> 00:31:33.960] And so what I think is really cool about Substack, and this is not sponsored by Substack, I don't even have a Substack, but what I'm seeing and what I'm seeing from my clients is that you can monetize and grow in a place that is not at the mercy of algorithms or competing with a pay-to-play digital advertising platform.
[00:31:33.960 --> 00:31:40.280] Looking at you, Instagram, and probably Facebook and all of them, right?
[00:31:40.280 --> 00:31:45.280] So, like almost all of social media now, in order to show up, you have to pay to play.
[00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:57.840] So, don't think that you can create a social media strategy that is going to attract new customers unless you are putting money behind it, which I also don't recommend unless you just have a ton of money, right?
[00:31:58.160 --> 00:32:17.520] So, anyway, what I found that's really interesting with Substack is that even my own branding clients, a lot of them that hire me at Braid to do their branding for their business, whether that's as a life coach or as a therapist or as a creator, many of them are creating Substacks where they can share more personal writing and content.
[00:32:17.520 --> 00:32:22.000] And many of them are confused as how it will relate and play into their business.
[00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:32.880] So, they have this drive to share who they are as a ding ding personal brand, but even more than a personal brand as a whole person.
[00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:45.840] They want to share who they are as a person, but they are confused as to where it fits into their life of getting compensated, of having the time and the resources to create this kind of content, right?
[00:32:45.840 --> 00:32:47.840] Because we all only have so much time.
[00:32:47.840 --> 00:32:53.280] I think it's fair to want to be compensated for putting yourself out there creatively, right?
[00:32:53.280 --> 00:32:54.720] Otherwise, it's just a hobby.
[00:32:54.720 --> 00:33:01.440] They wouldn't be asking me, How does this all play together if it was only a hobby, right?
[00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:11.760] So, what you need to look at is if you are wanting to create content that is more personal, but you're wanting it to play into your business, you have to think about the common denominator between those things.
[00:33:11.760 --> 00:33:18.960] And the common denominator between the business that you've created and the more personal content that you're sharing is you.
[00:33:19.280 --> 00:33:25.920] So, you are the thing that bridges the gap between you as a person and you as a business.
[00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:38.600] So, my question for anyone who's wanting to share more personal content, and even for myself, we talked about this on the last episode where I was talking about my personal YouTube channel: is why do you need a separate place for both?
[00:33:38.600 --> 00:33:43.400] Why do you need a separate place for your business and a separate place for your content?
[00:33:43.400 --> 00:33:51.960] And that's not me saying that the answer is no, it should all be together, not at all, because sometimes they deserve separate places.
[00:33:52.280 --> 00:33:54.440] That is appropriate in some instances.
[00:33:54.440 --> 00:34:01.880] And in some instances, you are probably spinning your wheels and being inefficient where it could all be in one place.
[00:34:01.880 --> 00:34:13.480] So, some more questions that you might explore as you are thinking about sharing more of who you are and making money as a business is: can you bring more of who you are into your business?
[00:34:13.480 --> 00:34:14.840] And what would that look like?
[00:34:14.840 --> 00:34:24.520] And can you bring some of your business and how you make your livelihood into your personal writing or personal videos or whatever content you're creating?
[00:34:24.520 --> 00:34:28.760] And again, for some people, the right answer is to keep them separate for the sake of creativity.
[00:34:28.760 --> 00:34:40.040] If you've read Big Magic and it resonated with you whenever Elizabeth Gilbert says, Don't make money off of your creativity because it will choke it out, you know, then yeah, keep it separate.
[00:34:40.040 --> 00:34:47.160] But for others, it might be really advantageous to blend the two together and to really think about what that looks like.
[00:34:47.160 --> 00:34:56.520] Yeah, and I'm on a side where like use it to diversify when and where it makes sense as well.
[00:34:57.320 --> 00:35:03.720] The thing that I really want to highlight here is one of the fun things about personal branding is there really is no right or wrong way.
[00:35:03.720 --> 00:35:06.600] It's just what fits best for you, right?
[00:35:06.600 --> 00:35:11.160] So, be where you want to be, do it the way you want to, monetize or not.
[00:35:11.160 --> 00:35:19.600] Or even let's say you are within the context of an organization or you want nothing to do with like monetizing your personal brand at all.
[00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:38.960] You know, how can you show up in your life in a way that makes you makes it so obvious what your values are and what you are or what you are about that you are a walking personal brand without telling people you're a personal brand.
[00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:41.360] This, this exactly.
[00:35:41.360 --> 00:35:45.600] Like you're, if you are showing up, you are a personal brand whether you like it or not.
[00:35:45.600 --> 00:35:53.440] So really knowing who you are and having awareness that you are projecting an image is only going to serve you.
[00:35:53.440 --> 00:36:00.000] And so I have a couple of tips and tools and exercises that you can use to kind of figure out what that is.
[00:36:00.560 --> 00:36:03.760] And it will totally serve you well to go through these exercises.
[00:36:03.760 --> 00:36:13.920] But before we do that, I also want to talk a little bit about Instagram because I've also seen the backlash of Instagram giving a rise to personal brand again in a really interesting way.
[00:36:14.640 --> 00:36:15.040] Yeah.
[00:36:15.040 --> 00:36:15.600] Okay.
[00:36:15.600 --> 00:36:26.960] So I have found that the backlash to Instagram is having all of us as users of Instagram who used to like Instagram really double down on authenticity.
[00:36:26.960 --> 00:36:31.120] Now, I know that authenticity is a buzzword, but I have not found a better word for it.
[00:36:31.120 --> 00:36:32.800] So we're going to use it.
[00:36:32.800 --> 00:36:39.680] But I'm talking about what I'm finding on Instagram is people posting imperfect photo dumps.
[00:36:39.680 --> 00:36:50.120] Like we're talking about the kind of stuff that we used to put on Facebook in the early days where you'd upload 100 photos from a party the night before, and nothing was edited.
[00:36:50.120 --> 00:36:52.160] Nothing was face-tuned.
[00:36:52.160 --> 00:36:53.840] There were some blurry shots in there.
[00:36:53.840 --> 00:37:01.800] I mean, some of us were even getting our, you know, disposable film cameras, you know, was developed.
[00:37:01.800 --> 00:37:02.440] I forgot the word.
[00:36:59.840 --> 00:37:04.040] Turned into CDs.
[00:37:04.600 --> 00:37:10.200] Turned into CDs, developed, and then posting that stuff up on Facebook, right?
[00:37:10.200 --> 00:37:12.520] And that's what I'm seeing happen on Instagram.
[00:37:12.520 --> 00:37:23.880] It's almost like, you know, things are becoming less staged as Instagram and FaceTune influencers demand even more work and perfection from us.
[00:37:23.880 --> 00:37:25.720] So this is what Instagram did.
[00:37:25.720 --> 00:37:29.320] Instagram was like, oh no, it's not enough to post a photo anymore.
[00:37:29.320 --> 00:37:30.760] You need to create reels.
[00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:32.200] You need to learn how to edit.
[00:37:32.200 --> 00:37:43.400] You need to learn how to dance and point your fingers at little captions that are popping up in order to sell your rocks, to sell your brand, to sell whatever it is that you have.
[00:37:43.640 --> 00:37:45.480] Professional services.
[00:37:46.120 --> 00:37:46.600] Yeah.
[00:37:46.600 --> 00:37:49.640] Like I'm seeing dentists doing this stuff, right?
[00:37:50.120 --> 00:37:52.520] And we can see through the fakeness of it all.
[00:37:52.520 --> 00:37:56.200] It is so fake and we're not having it anymore.
[00:37:56.200 --> 00:38:05.400] And we're not having it by showing up as we are without filters, whether that's on Instagram or on Substack, right?
[00:38:05.400 --> 00:38:12.760] Like we are going to places where we can just show up and photo dump and share on our own terms.
[00:38:12.760 --> 00:38:16.360] Kind of like saying, yeah, screw you, Instagram.
[00:38:16.360 --> 00:38:18.280] I'm here as me.
[00:38:18.280 --> 00:38:19.960] I can't handle it anymore.
[00:38:19.960 --> 00:38:29.480] So I'm really seeing this backlash to like the perfectionism of it all by being more of who we are, bumps and warts and all, right?
[00:38:29.800 --> 00:38:30.440] Yeah.
[00:38:30.440 --> 00:38:33.640] And that is preferred, I think.
[00:38:33.640 --> 00:38:38.440] And it is something that, as we're talking about this, it's so funny.
[00:38:38.440 --> 00:38:41.880] We are like online dinosaurs a little bit, you and I.
[00:38:42.200 --> 00:38:47.200] Not like the oldest of dinosaurs, but we're a little prehistoric, you know?
[00:38:47.200 --> 00:38:49.760] Like, we were there when it began.
[00:38:44.680 --> 00:38:50.800] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:38:51.120 --> 00:38:52.400] So it's funny.
[00:38:52.800 --> 00:39:09.200] We say this, and I feel this way, but I feel like a lot of people who have really just sort of gotten online the past like four, five, six years are like, excuse me, I'm great at dancing and pointing at my words or whatever it may be.
[00:39:09.200 --> 00:39:15.360] Because I do think that we are like the older outliers to this.
[00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:23.600] And though this makes the most sense to us, I feel like there are so many people who are still so in it that that's why it's still working.
[00:39:23.600 --> 00:39:30.320] So if you're like a little offended by all those things that Kathleen said, noted.
[00:39:30.320 --> 00:39:34.240] Well, also, if you're offended, I want to know, do you actually want to be doing that stuff?
[00:39:34.240 --> 00:39:36.240] Like, if it brings you joy, great.
[00:39:36.240 --> 00:39:38.880] I do a lot of cringy things that bring me joy.
[00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:41.040] And I don't care if it's cringy, right?
[00:39:41.040 --> 00:39:42.560] I don't care.
[00:39:42.560 --> 00:39:46.320] But if you're doing those things because you feel like you have to keep up, guess what?
[00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:47.840] You don't have to do it anymore.
[00:39:47.840 --> 00:39:51.680] You can show up in a way that feels true to you.
[00:39:51.680 --> 00:39:52.160] Yeah.
[00:39:52.160 --> 00:40:05.840] I also find that a lot of really hardcore Instagram users really forget that there is an entire world outside of it of like options like Patreon and Substack and other social media platforms and all of those things.
[00:40:05.840 --> 00:40:23.120] I find that a whole lot that there's this like tunnel vision that happens when you're in that little scrolly world where you forget that there are other places for you to show up and build your personal brand in a way that feels both more authentic to you and will give you more bang for your even metaphorical buck.
[00:40:23.120 --> 00:40:33.000] Yeah, it's so funny that you say that because whenever I think about my personal brand, I think about real life more so than anything.
[00:40:33.320 --> 00:40:44.280] And going back to the beginning of our conversation and thinking about part of us creating being boss together was creating a place to highlight our own personal brands on our own term.
[00:40:44.280 --> 00:40:50.040] Because we came from a world of blogging where you don't get as much nuance and back and forth conversation.
[00:40:50.040 --> 00:40:55.800] It's a big investment for our listeners to turn on this podcast and to tune in.
[00:40:55.800 --> 00:40:58.920] And they're listening to us for hours and hours and hours.
[00:40:59.240 --> 00:41:01.720] And they're more forgiving of our mistakes.
[00:41:01.720 --> 00:41:03.960] And we're creating more of a connection with them.
[00:41:03.960 --> 00:41:25.320] Whenever we get together with bosses at conferences or different events, we, I know that it's like a parasocial relationship, but we also really feel like we know you as well because you're listening and we're attracting and we're all kind of the kinds of people that would be friends anyway, right?
[00:41:25.640 --> 00:41:33.320] So it really does create this, what feels like, you know, a really true connection or the beginning of a true connection, right?
[00:41:33.960 --> 00:41:41.240] And it's so funny because whenever I left being boss, part of it was because it wasn't feeling quite true anymore.
[00:41:41.240 --> 00:41:46.920] And in service of my own personal brand and to grow and evolve, I had to change platforms.
[00:41:46.920 --> 00:41:49.640] And that was really, really painful.
[00:41:49.640 --> 00:41:51.640] I didn't want to leave.
[00:41:51.640 --> 00:41:59.080] And then in some ways, leaving gave me the space to nurture and cultivate, okay, who am I now?
[00:41:59.080 --> 00:42:00.200] Who am I growing into?
[00:42:00.200 --> 00:42:03.720] Who do I aspire to be without being boss?
[00:42:04.040 --> 00:42:09.480] And then also there was a pandemic, which like kind of threw all of us for a loop of identity.
[00:42:09.480 --> 00:42:11.960] And yeah, and that was wild.
[00:42:12.680 --> 00:42:27.120] But, you know, coming back to it, like, I do think of having a personal brand as creating an impression and reputation online and offline, but even more offline than on, or like in those face-to-face conversations with my clients.
[00:42:27.120 --> 00:42:34.080] Yes, I think the same thing whenever I think about where it is that I'm, you know, really building a personal brand.
[00:42:34.080 --> 00:42:38.720] And I am here every week continuing to share the things and all the things.
[00:42:38.720 --> 00:42:49.360] But, and this is definitely one expression of my personal brand, but it is really an incredibly small expression of my personal brand.
[00:42:49.360 --> 00:42:51.760] It is the one that currently, you know, gets the most reach.
[00:42:51.760 --> 00:42:52.400] And I love that.
[00:42:52.400 --> 00:42:53.280] And I love being here.
[00:42:53.280 --> 00:42:59.760] And I love continuing to evolve my own, you know, experiences of business and share it with you, et cetera.
[00:43:00.080 --> 00:43:09.200] But when I'm really, when I'm really cultivating my personal brand, it's when I'm getting dressed in the morning, right?
[00:43:09.200 --> 00:43:17.440] It's when, and I've had some funny conversations with folks too, about how my office is now across the street from my shop.
[00:43:17.440 --> 00:43:22.720] And so sometimes I'm like, or not daily, a couple times a day, really.
[00:43:22.720 --> 00:43:31.120] I'm like the really stylish shopkeep who goes strutting across like, you know, Main Street Chattanooga a couple of times a day.
[00:43:31.520 --> 00:43:33.360] You're your own rom-com.
[00:43:33.680 --> 00:43:34.000] I am.
[00:43:34.240 --> 00:43:37.360] You have like a little soundtrack playing in your head at the same time.
[00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:40.800] Do you pretend like you know Hathaway and Devil Wars Prada?
[00:43:41.120 --> 00:43:46.880] I'm going to make a sound, a sound, a playlist for myself, literally for this.
[00:43:47.360 --> 00:43:54.080] Because like that is really, that's really where, that's a piece of where I'm cultivating.
[00:43:54.640 --> 00:43:57.440] I'm not all about what I'm wearing when I cross the street these days.
[00:43:57.440 --> 00:44:01.160] That's not the only place I play, but it is something that I think about often.
[00:44:01.160 --> 00:44:03.240] A friend of mine, again, recently made a joke about it.
[00:44:03.240 --> 00:44:04.680] And I was like, wow, you're right.
[00:43:59.840 --> 00:44:05.720] I am that person.
[00:44:06.040 --> 00:44:11.160] I'm the person who has the, like, I'm, I'm the rock, the crystal store owner, right?
[00:44:11.160 --> 00:44:15.640] Who, you know, is building this really great team and has this really cute shop and all of these things.
[00:44:15.640 --> 00:44:21.000] And I'm just jaunting across the street pretty consistently in whatever bitch boots I got on that day.
[00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:27.960] And it is like a whole personal brand vibe that I think really contributes to both of the brands that it is that I am building.
[00:44:27.960 --> 00:44:37.400] Both Almanac, as I'm dripping in crystals, and being boss, as I am like making that traffic stop so I can walk across the street or whatever it may be.
[00:44:37.400 --> 00:44:45.400] And then very much so in the conversations that I'm having, where it is that I'm showing up, how it is that I'm engaging with people in real life.
[00:44:45.400 --> 00:45:01.160] I am consistently, you know, cultivating this personal brand around myself that really contributes to both of the things that I have going on, as well as my family and representing my friend group and those sorts of things.
[00:45:01.160 --> 00:45:19.800] So, you know, it's, and as someone who's not on social media anymore, who is not engaging in any online content creation, with the exception of literally this show right here, I am cultivating the majority of my personal brand offline these days.
[00:45:19.800 --> 00:45:21.480] And I love that.
[00:45:21.480 --> 00:45:23.240] It's no less important.
[00:45:23.720 --> 00:45:32.840] When I dance, it's to real music on my own terms and not for a video for the internet, or whatever it may be.
[00:45:32.840 --> 00:45:42.680] And so, you can very much so, just as much cultivate a personal brand around yourself if you want nothing to do with social media at all.
[00:45:42.680 --> 00:45:44.680] What you were saying about getting dressed here reminds me.
[00:45:44.680 --> 00:45:50.000] Remember, whenever my word of the year was style, I think it was three or four or five years ago.
[00:45:50.320 --> 00:45:55.360] Yeah, it might be hard to find which episode that is, but I talked about personal branding there as well.
[00:45:55.360 --> 00:46:00.800] And that is a big part of my personal brand: showing up as I want to be seen, right?
[00:46:00.800 --> 00:46:02.480] And that does take some effort.
[00:46:02.480 --> 00:46:09.840] And so, I don't want people to think that the effort of thinking about how you're showing up negates the authenticity of it.
[00:46:10.160 --> 00:46:21.840] So, going into how to like really have this, like, that's at a very important note that I want to pinpoint.
[00:46:21.840 --> 00:46:28.080] This idea that doing in that way is not less authentic.
[00:46:28.080 --> 00:46:33.040] I think it actually, when you are thinking about it in that way, it makes it more intentional.
[00:46:33.040 --> 00:46:35.840] And I think, therefore, more authentic.
[00:46:35.840 --> 00:46:46.000] Like, I am being much more authentic whenever I am getting dressed in the morning to come to work than I am if you're just going to be seeing half my body on Zoom all day, right?
[00:46:46.240 --> 00:46:51.760] Or if I'm going to be just popping in for like a quick reel or whatever it may be.
[00:46:51.760 --> 00:47:04.960] Like, that I find though, the more thought you put into it, the more authentic and intentional it really is, as opposed to just like a quick hit for the day, whatever that may be.
[00:47:04.960 --> 00:47:06.000] Absolutely.
[00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:13.760] I once had someone ask me when I was doing some creative coaching, well, isn't the most authentic version of yourself like naked in the woods?
[00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:18.640] And I was like, Well, yeah, maybe the most authentic version of you is, but not for me necessarily.
[00:47:18.640 --> 00:47:19.200] The most authentic.
[00:47:19.360 --> 00:47:22.640] Your body, not your soul, right?
[00:47:22.440 --> 00:47:23.280] Right, right.
[00:47:23.280 --> 00:47:28.960] Is dressed like I'm about to fight some zombies in the post-apocalypse.
[00:47:28.960 --> 00:47:34.600] And sometimes the most authentic version of me is wearing a cat eye and red lipstick.
[00:47:29.840 --> 00:47:35.480] And sometimes it's not.
[00:47:35.720 --> 00:47:41.080] Sometimes the most authentic version of me has like a short platinum blonde buzz cut.
[00:47:41.080 --> 00:47:46.040] And other times she has like long, curly 80s shag, right?
[00:47:46.360 --> 00:48:03.080] So it's, it really is about what you said, being intentional and really kind of shaping who it is that you want to be and putting that intention into it and really having the courage to bring that intentionality into your day, into who you are.
[00:48:03.080 --> 00:48:05.000] And it doesn't necessarily have to be what you're wearing.
[00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:07.400] It could also be how you spend your time, right?
[00:48:07.400 --> 00:48:11.080] So that could be blocking off white space to meditate.
[00:48:11.080 --> 00:48:23.480] It could be blocking off time to work on that painting or to, you know, work with your hands and make something creative or that time to work on your fitness and exercise or go for a walk, right?
[00:48:23.480 --> 00:48:26.120] So it does take intentionality.
[00:48:26.120 --> 00:48:34.760] And I always thought that, you know, knowing who you are was kind of a finish line and that one day I would arrive and I would know who I am.
[00:48:34.760 --> 00:48:37.560] But there is no finish line to knowing who you are.
[00:48:37.560 --> 00:48:46.600] It is a constant act of self-discovery, which takes that daily intentionality of asking yourself, okay, who am I?
[00:48:46.600 --> 00:48:48.440] How do I want to show up?
[00:48:48.440 --> 00:48:49.960] What do I want to be?
[00:48:50.280 --> 00:48:56.200] The goal is always to become more of who you want to be and who you aspire to be.
[00:48:56.200 --> 00:48:58.760] The goal is to always become more of yourself.
[00:48:58.760 --> 00:49:10.200] So I do have a couple of exercises for this, and they do come from the Braid Branding DIY workbook, which you can find at braidcreative.com/slash workbook.
[00:49:10.440 --> 00:49:25.920] But before I go into that, actually, one exercise I want to bring up, which I think is one of the most important, you can find in our book that we wrote and published together called Being Boss, Take Control of your Work and own Who You Are.
[00:49:25.920 --> 00:49:30.480] No, my God, live life on your own terms and live life on your terms.
[00:49:30.480 --> 00:49:32.560] We have a long title.
[00:49:32.560 --> 00:49:36.160] It is being boss, take control of your work and live life on your own terms.
[00:49:36.160 --> 00:49:36.800] There you go.
[00:49:36.800 --> 00:49:39.600] We have a whole chunk in there on values.
[00:49:39.600 --> 00:49:46.720] And I find that values is one of the things that you can find a running theme throughout your life, right?
[00:49:46.720 --> 00:49:52.640] So we've talked ad nauseum about values on this show and really what ours are.
[00:49:52.640 --> 00:49:55.760] So, Emily, one of your values is freedom.
[00:49:55.760 --> 00:50:06.640] One of my values is creativity and really making sure that our resources and where we allocate those resources are going toward those values.
[00:50:06.640 --> 00:50:13.920] So, for you, the value of freedom might mean that you're growing your team so that you have more time to do the things that you want to do.
[00:50:13.920 --> 00:50:25.760] For me, the value of creativity might look like blocking out time to explore my creativity, to collage things together, to make a painting, whatever that might look like, right?
[00:50:25.760 --> 00:50:29.520] So, really look at your values and look at what they've been through.
[00:50:29.520 --> 00:50:32.160] Try and find like themes through your whole life.
[00:50:32.160 --> 00:50:34.080] So, you can check out more of that in our book.
[00:50:34.080 --> 00:50:37.120] But then, two other exercises that are really easy.
[00:50:37.120 --> 00:50:39.680] You don't even need to buy my workbook to do this.
[00:50:39.680 --> 00:50:42.160] You can sketch it out on a piece of paper.
[00:50:42.160 --> 00:50:47.760] One is called Line in the Sand, and it is simply drawing a line down a sheet of paper.
[00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:53.360] And on the left side, title it, I am not, and on the right side, title it, I am.
[00:50:53.680 --> 00:51:01.560] Sometimes, really figuring out who you are starts with knowing what you are not, and really thinking about, okay, I am not.
[00:50:59.840 --> 00:51:05.080] This could be your business, your offerings, your services.
[00:51:05.400 --> 00:51:10.600] It could also be things that you are not that you see in other people that you think are gross, you know?
[00:51:10.600 --> 00:51:15.320] So, like, I am not, I don't know, but I'm not a bigot.
[00:51:15.320 --> 00:51:17.240] I am not closed-minded.
[00:51:17.240 --> 00:51:23.160] I am not, it could be a lot of things, but it could also be things that other people might not agree with, you know?
[00:51:23.160 --> 00:51:32.360] So, it might even be things like, I'm not generous, you know, like that might sound awful on the surface, but in reality, it kind of means something else.
[00:51:32.360 --> 00:51:39.160] So, really get, get into it, and don't just think about someone else, what they might think if they were to read this piece of paper.
[00:51:39.160 --> 00:51:42.920] And then, on the right-hand side, you want to write down all of the things that you are.
[00:51:42.920 --> 00:51:44.600] So, I am trustworthy.
[00:51:44.600 --> 00:51:45.640] I am loyal.
[00:51:45.640 --> 00:51:47.080] I am smart.
[00:51:47.080 --> 00:51:47.960] I am creative.
[00:51:47.960 --> 00:51:54.120] Like, write down all of the things that you are and the things that you probably want to be known for.
[00:51:54.120 --> 00:52:00.280] Like, if you don't feel, if you feel like it's a stretch, put an asterisk around it and think about what do I need to do?
[00:52:00.280 --> 00:52:05.160] How do I need to behave to become more of this I am that I want to be?
[00:52:05.480 --> 00:52:07.560] Any thoughts on that exercise, Emily?
[00:52:07.560 --> 00:52:09.480] No, those are, those are definitely the exercises.
[00:52:09.560 --> 00:52:10.840] Are you going to do it?
[00:52:11.480 --> 00:52:12.120] Well, it's funny.
[00:52:12.120 --> 00:52:14.280] I was actually looking at some of my notes that I took for this.
[00:52:14.280 --> 00:52:24.120] I actually, one of the things that I, one of the things, I'll go ahead and share it now because I was thinking I could work back, work back into this, but I think this is probably a perfect moment.
[00:52:24.120 --> 00:52:30.840] I sort of had a realization around sort of the parameters of this exact exercise a couple of years ago.
[00:52:30.840 --> 00:52:39.320] I think when we were making the transition, maybe you were leaving Being Boss, and I was, you know, thinking about sort of the future of being boss versus almanac.
[00:52:39.320 --> 00:52:48.560] Like, what everything was sort of up in the air, and I needed to like really get in there with what it is that I wanted and how I wanted to maneuver myself over the next couple of years.
[00:52:49.200 --> 00:52:59.680] And one of the things that came to me as I was doing some journaling, I actually even think I was doing some yoga because if I remember correctly, and I've mentioned these before, I have a couple pages in my journal.
[00:52:59.680 --> 00:53:06.720] Usually, when I'm doing yoga or meditating, there are just like these like one-liners just on a page by itself that are just there.
[00:53:06.720 --> 00:53:17.280] And one of them that I think about often is: I wrote down, I don't want to be famous, I want to have a fantastic product, right?
[00:53:17.520 --> 00:53:20.000] And so, similar, like, I am, and I am not.
[00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:25.120] Like, I want and I don't want, I think, is another way that you can think about this.
[00:53:25.120 --> 00:53:28.800] And sort of pairing those things up can be really powerful.
[00:53:28.800 --> 00:53:42.720] Because I think one of the allures of a personal brand in that, like, sort of like top-level, I want to be famous situation is that you can begin making a lot of decisions based on ego, right?
[00:53:42.720 --> 00:53:44.880] Because, like, you are the brand.
[00:53:44.880 --> 00:53:51.680] And so, you're not making really great strategic moves if you're being driven too much by ego.
[00:53:51.680 --> 00:54:00.720] And sometimes you feel like you need to be putting yourself out there way more than you really do just to sell what it is that you are trying to sell.
[00:54:00.720 --> 00:54:05.600] And so, I wrote that down and something I think about often.
[00:54:05.600 --> 00:54:08.640] And I make a lot of decisions through that lens as well.
[00:54:08.640 --> 00:54:18.720] Like, is this going to help me be famous, which I don't care to be, or is this going to help me create a fantastic product, which is really why it is that I'm here?
[00:54:18.720 --> 00:54:47.960] And so, as you were talking about that exercise, I looked back and I saw that and thought, like, that is a great example of how, when you get clear on what you are and what you are not, or what you want and what you don't want, how you can have these sayings or these like these prompts that can guide you through developing whatever personal brand it is that you want within the constraints of how it is that you actually want to express yourself within it.
[00:54:47.960 --> 00:54:54.040] That makes me think about creating boundaries around your personal brand, which is also incredibly important.
[00:54:54.040 --> 00:55:08.360] And so, I'll come back to my other exercise that I wanted to share, but whenever I think about having a personal brand and really thinking about what you want or what you don't want or who you are and who you are not, you also have to think about what you're willing to share and what you're not willing to share.
[00:55:08.360 --> 00:55:13.720] And so, as Brene Brown says, share what is vulnerable, not what is intimate.
[00:55:13.720 --> 00:55:16.760] I think that she even said that on our podcast, right?
[00:55:17.080 --> 00:55:34.600] And so, with that, I kind of think about a few things, like a few other prompts to add to yours, which is whenever I'm sharing anything that feels somehow related to my personal brand, I have to ask, is this in line with my integrity?
[00:55:34.600 --> 00:55:35.480] Right?
[00:55:35.480 --> 00:55:37.160] Am I being honest?
[00:55:37.160 --> 00:55:38.840] Am I being truthful?
[00:55:38.840 --> 00:55:40.840] Does this feel right?
[00:55:41.160 --> 00:55:43.880] And then I also ask, why am I sharing this?
[00:55:43.880 --> 00:55:55.400] And sometimes I'm sharing really dumb stuff, like my Kathleen on the scene content where like an animal is screaming in my backyard and I'm scared, right?
[00:55:55.400 --> 00:55:57.960] Or just silly things, right?
[00:55:57.960 --> 00:56:00.040] That don't really bring value.
[00:56:00.040 --> 00:56:02.840] But what it does bring is connection.
[00:56:02.840 --> 00:56:07.320] It brings humor and connection, which are also within my values.
[00:56:07.320 --> 00:56:09.320] Like humor is a big one.
[00:56:09.320 --> 00:56:12.440] So, like, I asked myself, is this in line with my integrity?
[00:56:12.440 --> 00:56:13.800] Why am I sharing this?
[00:56:13.800 --> 00:56:14.960] Is it helpful?
[00:56:14.960 --> 00:56:16.320] Is it valuable?
[00:56:14.600 --> 00:56:18.240] And will it foster connection?
[00:56:18.560 --> 00:56:23.040] You know, and so if it's, if it checks those boxes, I'll share it.
[00:56:23.040 --> 00:56:32.240] And then the other thing I want to say whenever it comes to a personal brand is sometimes you feel like your identity is at stake whenever your personal brand is challenged, right?
[00:56:32.240 --> 00:56:36.720] And it can kind of really shake you up if you don't have the confidence to show up.
[00:56:36.720 --> 00:56:43.360] So for me, having a personal brand also means being willing to change my mind and being willing to apologize.
[00:56:43.360 --> 00:56:48.480] That is a huge skill that you need to develop when you have a personal brand.
[00:56:48.480 --> 00:56:51.120] And it doesn't mean that you have to be sorry about everything.
[00:56:51.120 --> 00:57:06.960] It doesn't mean I got in a place where I felt like I was having to put up a disclaimer every single time I came on this podcast because I felt like everything I said was going to disappoint somebody or hurt somebody's feelings, even if that wasn't my intention, right?
[00:57:06.960 --> 00:57:10.240] That just kind of happens whenever you start to grow and build an audience.
[00:57:10.240 --> 00:57:18.400] But there are times that an apology is truly warranted or the ability to change your mind in the face of new information.
[00:57:18.720 --> 00:57:21.360] So those are some important things as well.
[00:57:21.360 --> 00:57:22.000] Yeah.
[00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:22.320] Okay.
[00:57:22.320 --> 00:57:23.760] What's your next exercise?
[00:57:23.760 --> 00:57:27.120] I want to go back to another exercise, which is a dinner party.
[00:57:27.120 --> 00:57:33.840] I can't remember if I've ever shared this on being boss before or not, but it is one of my very favorite exercises.
[00:57:34.480 --> 00:57:39.440] Well, we're going to share it again because I think that it's worthwhile and it's one worth remembering.
[00:57:39.440 --> 00:57:46.400] So dinner party is an exercise that we use with our one-on-one clients whenever we're talking about content creation.
[00:57:46.400 --> 00:57:52.560] And it is an exercise that is also included in the workbook, but you don't need the worksheet necessarily to do it.
[00:57:52.560 --> 00:58:10.840] What you want to do is think about a dinner table and that you have like four, five, six chairs around it, and you are inviting your favorite people to the table, whether it's celebrities or historical figures or fictional characters or someone that you know in real life or even archetypes.
[00:58:10.840 --> 00:58:16.760] I've seen people do this with even like astrological signs or tarot cards.
[00:58:16.760 --> 00:58:32.760] So think about having a dinner party and inviting four to six people or archetypes to the table and thinking about what are their values, what are they wearing, what is the kind of advice that they would give, what kinds of conversations are they having.
[00:58:32.760 --> 00:58:36.280] Really just think about these people and then think about them at dinner together.
[00:58:36.280 --> 00:58:38.760] What are they talking about with each other?
[00:58:38.760 --> 00:58:41.160] And it doesn't matter if you actually know them or not.
[00:58:41.160 --> 00:58:43.720] It's what your impression of them is, right?
[00:58:43.720 --> 00:58:51.400] So you're still making it your own because all of these people sitting at your dinner table are actually aspects of who you are.
[00:58:51.400 --> 00:58:57.560] And they are asked, what they're here to do is to give you courage to show up.
[00:58:57.560 --> 00:59:01.720] They're giving you ideas of how you might show up.
[00:59:01.720 --> 00:59:07.640] And they're really helping you shape kind of who you want to be and the decisions that you're going to make.
[00:59:07.640 --> 00:59:11.720] So that's another exercise that I love for kind of having awareness around your personal brand.
[00:59:11.720 --> 00:59:16.200] And you might find it surprising who has a seat around your dinner table.
[00:59:16.520 --> 00:59:17.160] Lovely.
[00:59:17.160 --> 00:59:17.800] There you go.
[00:59:17.800 --> 00:59:27.080] So for anyone who is thinking about building out their personal brand in whatever capacity, those are some of the Kathleen originals for sure.
[00:59:28.040 --> 00:59:47.600] And I do want to just sort of, I think, finalize this with like, with, I think that personal branding in whatever capacity you choose in the sort of fields where we are, we are choosing to show up and be leaders in whatever capacity that looks like for you.
[00:59:47.600 --> 00:59:50.000] That I'd say it's imperative.
[00:59:50.000 --> 00:59:53.520] I think it's a really important part: highs, lows, whatever.
[00:59:53.520 --> 01:00:02.240] I think if you can get it right, if you can set the boundaries, if you can understand how it is that you yourself is going to be expressing it and what it is that you're cultivating.
[01:00:02.640 --> 01:00:08.480] You know, we did go through a lot of like ew things with it, but I'm here for it.
[01:00:08.480 --> 01:00:09.840] I'm here for it too.
[01:00:09.840 --> 01:00:15.840] And it doesn't mean that you have to be the front-facing influencer for your business.
[01:00:15.840 --> 01:00:16.720] Not at all.
[01:00:16.720 --> 01:00:19.280] You don't have to be wildly popular.
[01:00:19.280 --> 01:00:21.360] You don't have to go viral.
[01:00:21.360 --> 01:00:32.960] But you do need to acknowledge that by bringing your values and your interests into your business, you will find more success both in purpose and in profit.
[01:00:33.280 --> 01:00:36.080] Drop mic.
[01:00:36.400 --> 01:00:37.040] Boom.
[01:00:37.040 --> 01:00:37.680] Insert.
[01:00:37.680 --> 01:00:38.640] Do the worksy boss.
[01:00:39.840 --> 01:00:40.480] Yeah.
[01:00:40.800 --> 01:00:41.360] Perfect.
[01:00:41.360 --> 01:00:42.640] Okay, Kathleen.
[01:00:42.960 --> 01:00:45.200] Thanks for coming and chatting with me about this.
[01:00:45.200 --> 01:00:48.720] This one was long overdue, and I'm glad we could finally get this one out.
[01:00:48.720 --> 01:00:50.160] Thanks for having me.
[01:00:50.160 --> 01:00:50.960] Of course.
[01:00:51.120 --> 01:00:53.440] Where can people find you these days?
[01:00:54.080 --> 01:00:57.280] You can find me at braidcreative.com.
[01:00:57.280 --> 01:00:58.960] I'm still on Instagram.
[01:00:58.960 --> 01:01:00.320] I can't help it.
[01:01:00.320 --> 01:01:02.960] It's at and Kathleen.
[01:01:03.280 --> 01:01:04.960] I love it.
[01:01:05.840 --> 01:01:11.040] You know, and we didn't even get to like, I'm not even that much of a personal brand in my business anymore either.
[01:01:11.040 --> 01:01:13.600] Like, Braid is kind of running on its own now.
[01:01:13.600 --> 01:01:17.200] So maybe this is another conversation for another day.
[01:01:17.200 --> 01:01:21.600] But I'm doing, I'm really, I've diven, divin.
[01:01:21.920 --> 01:01:23.440] I have dove.
[01:01:24.000 --> 01:01:25.040] What is it?
[01:01:25.040 --> 01:01:31.320] I've gone deep into branding and design, and it's really what I'm thinking about a lot.
[01:01:31.480 --> 01:01:38.120] So, this conversation, thanks for having it with me today because I do think about it a lot, and I love thinking about it.
[01:01:38.360 --> 01:01:48.280] I love bringing back this workbook that originated from the e-course that you made me do, Emily, but breathing new life into it and making it more streamlined.
[01:01:48.280 --> 01:01:50.840] So, it's just really a series of exercises.
[01:01:50.840 --> 01:02:01.320] I've been spending a lot of time doing that and really thinking about just being real and being successful and having purpose and making some money.
[01:02:01.320 --> 01:02:03.160] Like, we can't be mad about it.
[01:02:03.160 --> 01:02:05.880] So, anyway, that's where I'm at today.
[01:02:06.200 --> 01:02:07.000] Cool.
[01:02:07.000 --> 01:02:09.480] Is that what's making you feel most boss?
[01:02:09.800 --> 01:02:12.440] No, you know what's making me feel most boss?
[01:02:12.440 --> 01:02:13.000] What?
[01:02:13.320 --> 01:02:15.640] So, my kiddo is nine years old today.
[01:02:15.640 --> 01:02:17.960] Today is his birthday.
[01:02:17.960 --> 01:02:22.600] And I have organized the shit out of his birthday party.
[01:02:22.600 --> 01:02:24.680] And I've done it all in advance.
[01:02:24.680 --> 01:02:32.840] Like, you know, I feel like for the past nine years, I've been very reactionary toward his birthday, like just kind of cobbling together last-minute things.
[01:02:32.840 --> 01:02:41.000] And this year, I really made a big effort to make invitations, to have a theme, to book a really cool venue.
[01:02:41.000 --> 01:02:43.320] He's having an escape room birthday party.
[01:02:43.320 --> 01:02:44.840] The theme is bricks.
[01:02:44.840 --> 01:02:53.960] So, really tying all that together required a lot of my skills as a creative marketer and brander.
[01:02:53.960 --> 01:02:59.160] And, like, making, I'm making little brick cupcakes that the kids will spackle with concrete.
[01:02:59.160 --> 01:03:00.680] The concrete's the icing.
[01:03:00.680 --> 01:03:02.760] Like, really cute stuff.
[01:03:02.760 --> 01:03:05.880] I feel like a really good mom.
[01:03:05.880 --> 01:03:13.640] Even before this, I ran to the grocery store and picked up a bunch of snacks and treats for him, created a little basket for whenever he gets home from school.
[01:03:13.640 --> 01:03:15.840] So, that's making me feel really boss.
[01:03:14.680 --> 01:03:18.640] Like I feel really boss on the home front.
[01:03:14.760 --> 01:03:20.800] Good, good, nice, nice.
[01:03:21.360 --> 01:03:22.480] Well, how about you?
[01:03:22.480 --> 01:03:23.520] What's making you feel boss?
[01:03:23.680 --> 01:03:25.600] Your bitch boots crossing the street?
[01:03:25.920 --> 01:03:29.440] That does always, that does sometimes, until someone yells at me to walk faster.
[01:03:29.440 --> 01:03:32.080] And I can't walk faster in these boots, sir.
[01:03:32.240 --> 01:03:33.360] Can't do it.
[01:03:33.360 --> 01:03:34.720] I got that a couple days ago.
[01:03:34.720 --> 01:03:35.680] Lily was walking with me.
[01:03:35.680 --> 01:03:37.280] She was upset.
[01:03:37.600 --> 01:03:38.800] Upset about it.
[01:03:38.800 --> 01:03:40.400] What's making me feel most boss?
[01:03:40.960 --> 01:03:51.040] I know this is a touchy one for you in particular, but I'm actually sleeping really, really well and have been for like the past month, which has been great.
[01:03:51.040 --> 01:03:55.280] And I haven't shared this much here, but I had a year of insomnia.
[01:03:55.280 --> 01:03:56.320] So knock on wood.
[01:03:56.320 --> 01:04:03.120] Watch, I'm probably not going to sleep tonight, but I'm talking like nine, ten hours a night these days.
[01:04:03.120 --> 01:04:06.560] And at the moment, that has me feeling most boss.
[01:04:06.560 --> 01:04:08.560] I think I've figured some things out.
[01:04:08.560 --> 01:04:10.160] I'm sleeping too, by the way.
[01:04:10.160 --> 01:04:10.400] Good.
[01:04:10.400 --> 01:04:12.000] I'm glad to hear it.
[01:04:12.000 --> 01:04:12.480] Good.
[01:04:12.480 --> 01:04:13.440] I think it's the meds.
[01:04:13.440 --> 01:04:15.040] The meds are helping.
[01:04:15.360 --> 01:04:16.240] Good.
[01:04:16.240 --> 01:04:16.720] Good.
[01:04:16.720 --> 01:04:18.960] Glad they're doing something.
[01:04:21.520 --> 01:04:23.360] All right, boss, because you're here.
[01:04:23.360 --> 01:04:28.240] I know you want to be a better creative business owner, which means I've got something for you.
[01:04:28.240 --> 01:04:44.880] Each week, the team at Bean Boss is scouring the news, the best entrepreneurial publications, and updates and releases of the apps and tools that run our businesses and is curating it all into a weekly email that delivers the must-know tips and tactics in the realms of mindset, money, and productivity.
[01:04:44.880 --> 01:04:46.720] This email is called Brood.
[01:04:46.720 --> 01:04:52.880] We brew it up for you each week to give you the insight you need to make decisions and move forward in your creative business.
[01:04:52.880 --> 01:04:57.280] Check it out now and sign up for yourself at beanboss.club slash brood.
[01:04:57.280 --> 01:05:02.040] That's beanboss.club slash B-R-E-w-e-d.
[01:04:59.920 --> 01:05:05.960] Now, until next time, do the work, be boss.