Blocked and Reported

Episode 291: Oh, Canada (with Jonathan Kay)

January 17, 2026

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  • The human psychology underpinning conspiracy theories, such as the need to explain illegitimate power, remains constant despite technological changes, though the specific focus of these theories shifts. 
  • The MAGA movement under the Trump administration has proven to be a more effective and serious threat to liberalism and free speech than the illiberal excesses of the progressive left, according to both speakers. 
  • Ideological purity tests within media organizations, exemplified by Jonathan Kay's experience at *The Walrus* and Jesse Brown's recent shift at Canadaland following October 7th, can force individuals to choose between ideological alignment and their convictions, often resulting in audience loss. 
  • Jesse Brown of Canadaland experienced a significant audience capture problem following October 7th, 2023, where a substantial portion of his listener base demanded unwavering, full-throated support for Palestinian rights and opposition to Israel, leading to a 'clarifying moment' for him. 
  • Jesse Brown chose to address the rash of anti-Semitism in Canada via a special podcast on the subject, resulting in an estimated 15-20% loss of listeners and some staff departures, but which the host felt was a necessary stand. 
  • The host of "Blocked and Reported" reached out to Jesse Brown to reconcile a past disagreement after realizing the reason for their mutual dislike was forgotten, leading to a serious discussion about anti-Semitism that became one of Quillette's most listened-to Canadian-subject podcasts. 

Segments

Guest Introduction and Disc Golf Correction
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(00:00:10)
  • Key Takeaway: Jonathan Kay prefers disc golf over Ultimate Frisbee, viewing the latter as a child’s toy and disc golf as an athletic tool.
  • Summary: Jonathan Kay was introduced as an editor at Quillette and a Canadian. A factual correction was made immediately: Kay plays disc golf, not Ultimate Frisbee. Disc golf discs are described as tools of an athlete, unlike Frisbees, which are considered children’s toys.
Kay’s Career Path and Background
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(00:02:49)
  • Key Takeaway: Kay transitioned from a successful academic background in engineering and law to journalism because he found industrial and legal practice boring and uninteresting.
  • Summary: Kay attended Yale Law after an engineering degree in metallurgical engineering and computer programming. He briefly worked as an international tax lawyer in New York but found the work of making rich people richer uninteresting. He ultimately pursued journalism because he always enjoyed writing.
Exploring 9/11 Conspiracy Theories
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(00:04:17)
  • Key Takeaway: The 9/11 conspiracist movement is characterized by internal schisms (like the MyHops vs. Lie Hops) and is highly susceptible to propaganda delivered via totalizing media like video with compelling soundtracks.
  • Summary: Kay’s book, Among the Truthers, documented the 9/11 conspiracy subculture, which often included anti-Semitic elements, though some internal meetings pushed back against this. A key discovery was the schism between those who believed 9/11 was ‘made to happen on purpose’ (MyHops) versus those who believed it was ’let happen on purpose’ (Lie Hops). Video propaganda, like the film Loose Change, is highly effective because its soundtrack short-circuits rational brain functions.
Debating Conspiracy Theorists and Media Manipulation
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(00:11:37)
  • Key Takeaway: One should never debate a conspiracy theorist because they possess encyclopedic knowledge of their niche facts, making non-specialists appear as dilettantes.
  • Summary: Kay advises against debating conspiracy theorists because they spend their entire lives memorizing supporting factoids, unlike non-believers who only know the received wisdom. Documentaries are considered the most manipulative form of media, often using soundtracks to influence viewers. The core of any conspiracy theory is a narrative of illegitimate power that serves as a coping mechanism for perceived moral divergence in the world.
Brett Weinstein and Trust Betrayal
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(00:15:21)
  • Key Takeaway: The breakdown of trust in institutions or social circles, as experienced by Brett Weinstein, can lead to a generalized distrust that fuels belief in multiple, unrelated conspiracy theories.
  • Summary: Brett Weinstein is classified as a conspiracy theorist, whose ordeal at Evergreen State made him a hero to those questioning progressive illiberalism. When trust is broken, the brain seeks alternative explanations, leading to belief in other conspiracies, such as those regarding COVID-19 treatments like ivermectin. The human need to trust tribal leaders is profound, and when that trust is shattered, it can be traumatic, leading to radicalization.
Expertise vs. First Principles in Medicine
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(00:23:59)
  • Key Takeaway: While experts can be wrong (as seen in gender medicine), life becomes unlivable unless one extends a measure of trust to expertise, as few possess the specialized knowledge to derive complex truths from first principles.
  • Summary: The failure of experts regarding gender medicine—such as claims about puberty blockers being reversible—has caused significant political shifts and increased skepticism about official messaging. However, Kay notes that he trusts his doctors, even if they are sometimes wrong, because he recognizes the limits of his own intelligence in specialized fields like virology. The Canadian Pediatric Society is cited as an example of an organization exhibiting ideological capture regarding gender issues.
US vs. Canadian Illiberalism
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(00:28:09)
  • Key Takeaway: The Trump administration’s actions represent a larger and more effective threat to democratic values than the progressive illiberalism documented in academia and culture.
  • Summary: Katie Herzog asserts that the Trump administration’s First Amendment violations dwarf those from the woke left, citing examples like targeting law firms and attempting to prosecute flag burning. Kay agrees, noting that while progressive culture war issues affect the ‘intellectually ambitious class,’ anti-vax propaganda has caused tangible harm and death. Quillette, under Claire Lehman, resisted leaning into anti-vax narratives despite potential audience loss, prioritizing consistency in valuing scientific consensus.
Canadian Docility and the Trucker Protest
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(00:36:25)
  • Key Takeaway: Canadians’ tendency to follow rules, exemplified by obeying a fireworks ban, contrasts sharply with American individualism, but the government’s extreme reaction to the Trucker Protest (freezing bank accounts) generated sympathy for the protesters.
  • Summary: Canadians generally obey rules, which impressed the host when they obeyed a wildfire-prevention fireworks ban. The 2022 Trucker Protest in Ottawa was characterized by tacky American-style elements but lacked the violence seen in US protests. The government’s invocation of the Emergencies Act and freezing of protesters’ bank accounts was viewed as a draconian, totalitarian overreach, causing many to reverse their initial annoyance and side with the truckers.
Jordan Peterson and Bill C-16
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(00:45:35)
  • Key Takeaway: Jordan Peterson correctly predicted that Bill C-16, which amended human rights law regarding gender identity, would lead to mission creep and costly litigation via human rights tribunals.
  • Summary: Peterson opposed Bill C-16 because he viewed the mandated use of preferred pronouns as an ungrammatical perversion of language by the government. These tribunals operate with low cost for complainants but high defense costs for respondents, often leading to humiliation and financial ruin rather than jail time. The system has experienced mission creep, resulting in vexatious cases, such as one where a man sued immigrant women for refusing to wax his testicles.
Trudeau’s Style and Political Shift
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(00:54:27)
  • Key Takeaway: Justin Trudeau’s political style relied on sanctimonious posturing and progressive jargon, but his popularity plummeted when this approach failed to address core economic and trade realities, leading to his party seeking a ’normie’ replacement.
  • Summary: Trudeau’s governance involved using intersectional language in budgets and extending Pride celebrations into ‘Pride Season.’ This focus alienated many, including gay Canadians who felt forced into political alignment with trans activism. The Liberal Party sought to replace him with Mark Carney, a ’normie’ focused on trade and budget priorities, as Trudeau’s strategy of posturing against Trump failed when Trump was not re-elected.
Rivalry and Reconciliation with Jesse Brown
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(00:58:43)
  • Key Takeaway: The October 7th attacks forced Jesse Brown of Canadaland to confront his audience capture problem, leading him to take a strong pro-Israel stance that alienated a significant portion of his progressive, listener-supported base.
  • Summary: Kay and Brown were long-time rivals in Canadian media, with Brown representing a self-consciously progressive viewpoint while Kay was seen as an ideological outsider. Brown experienced a ‘Claire Lehman moment’ after October 7th when his progressive audience resisted his condemnation of terrorism and support for Israel. This ideological break caused Brown to lose an estimated 15-20% of his listening base.
Canadaland Audience Capture
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(01:02:34)
  • Key Takeaway: Jesse Brown faced an audience capture problem where financial supporters demanded unqualified opposition to Israel post-October 7th.
  • Summary: Canadaland, being listener-supported, presented Jesse Brown with an audience capture issue following October 7th, 2023. A substantial fraction of his financial supporters opposed any content indirectly suggesting opposition to a full-throated stance supporting Palestinian rights. This forced Brown into a ‘Claire Lehman moment’ regarding his editorial line.
Anti-Semitism Podcast Response
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(01:03:13)
  • Key Takeaway: Brown aired a special podcast on anti-Semitism in Canada despite listener backlash prioritizing focus on Palestinian victims.
  • Summary: Jesse Brown addressed anti-Semitism in Canada through a special subject podcast, even though some listeners felt the focus should remain solely on Palestinian victims at that moment. He estimated losing 15% to 20% of his listening base but considered the clarifying moment worth the cost. This action led to some staff departures and subsequent hiring of new personnel.
Reconciliation and Joint Podcast
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(01:04:43)
  • Key Takeaway: The host initiated contact with Brown to resolve a forgotten personal conflict, leading to a serious joint discussion on anti-Semitism.
  • Summary: The host reached out to Jesse Brown after realizing their mutual enmity was based on a forgotten reason, viewing this as a moment to reconcile. Their subsequent conversation was serious, focusing on anti-Semitism, despite the host initially using shtick to address the awkwardness of the meeting. The resulting podcast on this Canadian drama proved to be one of Quillette’s most listened-to episodes.
Primo Subscriber Topics Preview
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(01:06:38)
  • Key Takeaway: The extended Primo segment will cover IDW sanity, Canada’s MAID program, residential schools, and pronoun policies.
  • Summary: Jonathan Kay agreed to stay on for an additional hour exclusively for Primo subscribers. Topics reserved for this extended discussion include assessing who in the IDW remained sane, details on Canada’s euthanasia program (MAID), the residential school grave scandal, and personal pronoun policies. This extra content amounts to about another hour of conversation.