StarTalk Radio

True Crime & Forensic Pathology with Patricia Cornwell & Dr. Jonathan Hayes

March 13, 2026

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  • Forensic pathologists, like Dr. Jonathan Hayes, are physicians who specialize in determining the cause and circumstances of violent, unnatural, or suspicious deaths through detailed external and internal examinations (autopsies). 
  • Authenticity in crime writing, as practiced by both Patricia Cornwell and Dr. Hayes, is deeply enhanced by firsthand sensory experience of forensic realities, which cannot be replicated by secondhand accounts or video alone. 
  • Popular culture, such as the *CSI* franchise, positively influences recruitment into forensic science fields by romanticizing the science and portraying forensic experts as powerful, intelligent heroes. 

Segments

Introduction to Forensic Pathology
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(00:00:39)
  • Key Takeaway: The episode explores forensic pathology in both real life and fictional storytelling.
  • Summary: Neil deGrasse Tyson introduces the episode, focusing on forensic pathology, and welcomes guests Patricia Cornwell and Dr. Jonathan Hayes.
Defining Forensic Pathology
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(00:02:32)
  • Key Takeaway: Forensic pathologists perform autopsies to determine the cause and circumstances of violent or suspicious deaths.
  • Summary: Dr. Hayes defines his role as a forensic pathologist, detailing the steps of an autopsy and noting that gunshot wounds are statistically more lethal than stab wounds.
Autopsy Documentation and Process
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(00:05:37)
  • Key Takeaway: Autopsies are documented photographically, not filmed, and determining the exact cause of death is critically important.
  • Summary: The discussion covers why autopsies are not filmed and the critical need for precision in determining the cause of death, even in complex cases.
Pathologist Training and Career
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(00:08:42)
  • Key Takeaway: Becoming a forensic pathologist requires about 12 years of education and training after college.
  • Summary: Dr. Hayes outlines the long educational track (pre-med, medical school, residency, fellowship) required to become a forensic pathologist working in a medical examiner system.
Impact of Firsthand Experience on Fiction
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(00:11:49)
  • Key Takeaway: Firsthand experience, including sensory assault, provides an authenticity to writing that research alone cannot replicate.
  • Summary: The guests discuss how their direct experience—Dr. Hayes in the morgue, Cornwell in research—informs their writing, contrasting this with the ‘romance’ of forensic science fiction like CSI.
Forensics in Space: Crime in Microgravity
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(00:23:08)
  • Key Takeaway: Patricia Cornwell explores the credible physics of violence and death in low Earth orbit, posing new forensic challenges.
  • Summary: Cornwell discusses her novel featuring a crime in space, prompting a discussion on how blood spatter dynamics and time-of-death cues would change in zero gravity.
Post-Mortem Changes: Rigor Mortis
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(00:29:54)
  • Key Takeaway: Rigor mortis is a temporary stiffening of muscles that sets in and resolves within about 36 hours, influenced by body temperature.
  • Summary: Dr. Hayes explains what rigor mortis is, how it’s tested, and its typical timeline, noting that the term ‘stiff’ is temporary.
Decomposition and Body Disposal
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(00:38:23)
  • Key Takeaway: Decomposition involves bacterial gas production causing bloating, which can lead to bodies floating in water or fluids leaking through structures.
  • Summary: The discussion covers purge fluid leaking through ceilings and the buoyancy created by decomposition gas, explaining why ‘cement boots’ are used for submerged bodies.
AI and the Future of Forensic Investigation
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(00:43:35)
  • Key Takeaway: AI is expected to assist forensic science through advanced pattern recognition, but human sensory input and sign-off will remain crucial for complex tasks like autopsies.
  • Summary: The guests debate whether AI could conduct investigations or autopsies, concluding that while AI excels at pattern recognition, the tactile nature of forensic work requires human oversight.