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[00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:06.240] Look, adulting can be a challenge, but there is an easy button for at least one item on your to-do list.
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[00:00:57.440 --> 00:01:00.000] That's policygenius.com.
[00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:02.000] And now, onto the show.
[00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:05.040] Here's one from the Side Hustle Show Greatest Hits Collection.
[00:01:05.040 --> 00:01:13.200] Plus, stick around at the end for the real-time check-in with Jordan to see how his business is doing four and a half years after this original recording.
[00:01:13.520 --> 00:01:14.000] What's up?
[00:01:14.000 --> 00:01:14.560] What's up, Nick?
[00:01:14.800 --> 00:01:15.360] Loper here.
[00:01:15.360 --> 00:01:21.040] Welcome to the Side Hustle Show, because if you mind the nickels and dimes, the dollars take care of themselves.
[00:01:21.040 --> 00:01:26.160] Hat tip to Ben Young for that one, an early mentor of mine in my house painting days.
[00:01:26.160 --> 00:01:38.000] This week's Side Hustle is about minding probably not the nickels and dimes, but definitely the quarters and about how those can add up to some serious cash flow in a laundromat.
[00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:43.840] Owning a laundromat, I think, is one of these stereotypical side hustles that have been around forever.
[00:01:43.840 --> 00:01:48.480] And yet here we are in episode 433, and we haven't talked about this yet.
[00:01:48.480 --> 00:01:50.960] Simple, local, cash-flowing business.
[00:01:50.960 --> 00:02:01.320] I want to say this was one of the examples in the Rich Dad Board Ad Cash Flow Board game where the object of the game is to escape the rat race by buying or building cash flowing assets.
[00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:03.080] Isn't that the game we're all playing?
[00:02:03.080 --> 00:02:04.600] Financial independence, right?
[00:02:04.600 --> 00:02:08.680] In any case, Laundromat's definitely an interesting way to help you get there.
[00:02:08.680 --> 00:02:16.680] When Side Hustle Show listener Jordan Berry reached out about his experience in the laundromat business, I was excited to learn more and share it with you.
[00:02:16.680 --> 00:02:33.400] Stick around in this one to hear why a laundromat makes a great side hustle and investment vehicle, some expensive mistakes to avoid, where to look for financing help, and some creative marketing and monetization ideas to really accelerate your ROI and build equity at the same time.
[00:02:33.400 --> 00:02:37.640] Notes and links for this episode are at sidehustlenation.com/slash laundry.
[00:02:37.640 --> 00:02:41.720] And you can find Jordan at laundromatresource.com.
[00:02:41.720 --> 00:02:45.960] Jordan is a former pastor, now turned multi-laundromat owner.
[00:02:45.960 --> 00:02:48.120] But what made him think this was a great idea?
[00:02:48.120 --> 00:02:48.920] Ready?
[00:02:48.920 --> 00:02:50.280] Let's do it.
[00:02:53.800 --> 00:02:56.760] It's like, wow, that's such a random direction in life.
[00:02:56.760 --> 00:02:57.720] And it is.
[00:02:57.720 --> 00:03:07.240] So when I decided to step aside from pastoral ministry vocationally, we had a chunk of money, but I didn't really have a plan on what to do.
[00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:19.960] And I developed what I thought was a genius plan, which is rent out our house that we owned here in Southern California and go buy a condo in Hawaii and live in Hawaii for a couple of years on the beach.
[00:03:19.960 --> 00:03:25.480] And then when our kids were school age, we could come back to Southern California, net gain condo in Hawaii.
[00:03:25.480 --> 00:03:26.360] And my wife...
[00:03:26.680 --> 00:03:27.880] Come back to me a lot.
[00:03:27.880 --> 00:03:29.320] That sounds like a good plan to me.
[00:03:29.320 --> 00:03:30.760] I still think it's a great plan.
[00:03:30.760 --> 00:03:35.080] But my wife, on the other hand, was like, we should buy a laundromat.
[00:03:35.400 --> 00:03:39.320] And thus begins the saga of the laundromat.
[00:03:39.320 --> 00:03:53.840] And kind of the thought process behind that was, which I think also is a genius idea, but the thought process behind it was, you know, we wanted to put our money into something that would be making money where we didn't have to be there.
[00:03:53.840 --> 00:04:00.720] And this was before I had heard of rich dad, poor dad or investing of any sort really.
[00:04:00.960 --> 00:04:01.840] I was very naive.
[00:04:01.840 --> 00:04:04.160] So this was a very novel idea to me.
[00:04:04.160 --> 00:04:06.000] And I was very intrigued by it.
[00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:07.920] And it kind of sent me down this path.
[00:04:07.920 --> 00:04:10.560] Did your wife's family have a background in running these things?
[00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:13.760] Or she was just like, this seems like a cash flow business.
[00:04:13.760 --> 00:04:14.960] Let's go try it.
[00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:15.360] Yeah.
[00:04:15.360 --> 00:04:25.600] No, she heard of like a, I guess like a family friend who bought a laundromat and he quit his tech job up in Northern California.
[00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:29.680] And that was very inspiring and intriguing.
[00:04:29.680 --> 00:04:33.600] And so that's kind of how we were introduced to the concept.
[00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:43.680] And we thought, man, if he could quit his tech job, you know, and just run a laundromat and he's there, you know, five, ten hours a week max, that sounds like what we want to do.
[00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:44.560] Let's do that.
[00:04:44.560 --> 00:04:49.280] Is there a typical ROI that these things sell for?
[00:04:49.280 --> 00:04:58.240] Like, what's, I mean, you can think of a rental house and, you know, the market is very efficient, at least in certain areas, or at least it's believed to be.
[00:04:58.240 --> 00:05:04.320] And you say, well, here's the cap rate or here's kind of the, you know, cash on cash return I can expect with rent.
[00:05:04.320 --> 00:05:06.400] How are laundromats priced?
[00:05:06.400 --> 00:05:17.040] Yeah, well, I mean, I think that's one of the things that makes laundromats, I think, one of the best businesses out there, which is kind of a funny thing to say because, you know, it's just a laundromat and you probably drive by them all the time and don't notice them.
[00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:24.800] But the way that they're valued is they're valued based on net income and they're valued on a multiple of that net income.
[00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:36.280] And so the typical multiple is three and a half to five, somewhere in that range, you know, depending on the condition and of the equipment and the business and the length of the lease and stuff.
[00:05:36.440 --> 00:05:45.480] But somewhere three to five times net income, which means your returns can easily be over 20 and even over 30 percent.
[00:05:45.480 --> 00:05:50.120] That's unleveraged returns without any leverage.
[00:05:50.120 --> 00:05:51.880] I mean, that's without borrowing money.
[00:05:51.880 --> 00:05:53.480] Yeah, without borrowing money at all.
[00:05:53.480 --> 00:06:02.840] But depending on the price of three to five times net income, it's probably going to be a borrowing money situation, depending on how much this thing is making.
[00:06:03.160 --> 00:06:05.560] I imagine that could add up quickly.
[00:06:05.560 --> 00:06:09.080] It could be an expensive acquisition, but 20 to 30%.
[00:06:09.080 --> 00:06:18.920] So for the comparison, if we look at a traditional rental property, especially with the market the way it is right now, like if you're doing 10, 12, 14%, you're doing excellent there.
[00:06:18.920 --> 00:06:24.200] So you're doing a little bit better here, but there's, I mean, there's maintenance involved.
[00:06:24.200 --> 00:06:27.880] There's equipment and maybe some other stuff to consider.
[00:06:27.880 --> 00:06:30.040] So your wife says, we're going to buy a laundromat.
[00:06:30.040 --> 00:06:32.040] The numbers look interesting.
[00:06:32.040 --> 00:06:32.680] They pencil out.
[00:06:32.760 --> 00:06:34.760] You say, okay, let's go for it.
[00:06:34.760 --> 00:06:37.320] Like, how do you begin shopping for one?
[00:06:37.320 --> 00:06:38.840] I mean, that's a really great question.
[00:06:38.840 --> 00:06:40.360] It was something that we didn't really know.
[00:06:40.360 --> 00:06:42.280] And we just kind of fumbled our way through it.
[00:06:42.280 --> 00:06:44.200] Started probably where everybody starts online.
[00:06:44.200 --> 00:06:59.400] And we just googled laundromats for sale near me and kind of chased laundromats for sale and started trying to get a hold of brokers that were listing laundromats and try to find one that was relatively close to us that we felt like we could make work.
[00:06:59.400 --> 00:07:01.320] So that's kind of where we started.
[00:07:01.320 --> 00:07:03.000] And you found that first one.
[00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:07.240] What was the process like of kicking the proverbial tires?
[00:07:07.240 --> 00:07:08.600] It was kind of exciting, actually.
[00:07:08.760 --> 00:07:10.360] We had never owned a business.
[00:07:10.360 --> 00:07:19.200] And so we got this sneak peek into this business, but the one that we ended up buying was really run down.
[00:07:19.200 --> 00:07:22.560] It was typical what you think of when you think of a laundromat.
[00:07:22.560 --> 00:07:25.840] You know, it was half the lights were out, half the machines didn't work.
[00:07:25.840 --> 00:07:26.720] It was dingy.
[00:07:26.720 --> 00:07:28.800] There were homeless people there.
[00:07:28.800 --> 00:07:33.440] But we were getting in there and we started opening up these machines and counting quarters.
[00:07:33.440 --> 00:07:37.120] And I was like, man, this is pretty interesting.
[00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:42.560] Quarters add up pretty quick and you can make pretty good money with just a bunch of quarters.
[00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:57.440] So we got in there and we just started trying to figure out, you know, the trick to buying a laundromat really is figuring out how much money it's making, how much money it's spending, and is it going to continue to do that after you take over?
[00:07:57.440 --> 00:07:59.520] And what can you do to improve the business, right?
[00:07:59.520 --> 00:08:07.920] So we're kind of asking ourselves those four questions going along the process in order to try to figure out if this was going to be a good fit for us or not.
[00:08:07.920 --> 00:08:14.800] And when someone has their business listed with a brokerage, they've disclosed those financials, profit and loss.
[00:08:14.800 --> 00:08:17.360] Yeah, so those are seller reported.
[00:08:17.360 --> 00:08:19.920] So the brokers relay that information.
[00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:23.840] You know, one of the big tricks to buying a laundromat is that they're all cash businesses.
[00:08:23.840 --> 00:08:30.560] So it can be very difficult to verify those numbers to pinpoint exactly how much money launder mats are making.
[00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:31.680] It can be a little tricky.
[00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:40.960] So there's lots of little tricks and techniques to try to get as much data as possible to get, you know, as close of a guesstimate as possible, but it can be tricky.
[00:08:40.960 --> 00:08:43.040] Is there anything you can do to protect yourself?
[00:08:43.040 --> 00:08:43.680] That's interesting.
[00:08:43.680 --> 00:08:45.200] Yeah, it's an all-cash business.
[00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:50.240] According to the IRS, it made very little, but according to the broker, hey, we're making money hand over fist.
[00:08:50.240 --> 00:08:54.800] Yeah, and I always tell people too, like, and not all laundromat owners are like this.
[00:08:54.800 --> 00:09:05.880] And I think this kind of model of, you know, under-reporting to the government and over-reporting to buyers is, yeah, I think it's going by the wayside because it's just not a good way to do business.
[00:09:06.200 --> 00:09:07.960] But in the past, it's been like that.
[00:09:07.960 --> 00:09:12.680] And I always tell people, hey, if an owner's willing to lie to the government about how much...
[00:09:12.680 --> 00:09:15.560] the laundromat's making, they're willing to lie to you about it too.
[00:09:15.560 --> 00:09:22.200] So you got to be very diligent if their taxes don't match up with what they're saying the business is doing.
[00:09:22.200 --> 00:09:28.440] So a few things to protect yourself is one of the things you want to do is do coin collections during due diligence.
[00:09:28.440 --> 00:09:43.240] After you make an offer and it's accepted, you want to go in and collect coins with the owners every week for a few weeks, three, four, five, six weeks, and just kind of get a feel for how much money is coming in.
[00:09:43.240 --> 00:09:56.600] And while you do that, you also simultaneously take a water meter reading so you can see how much water is being used and you can compare that to previous water bills and how much money the owner says it's making.
[00:09:56.600 --> 00:09:59.560] Is that the biggest expense, just electric and water?
[00:09:59.560 --> 00:10:02.440] Electric, water, and gas, gas for the dryers.
[00:10:02.760 --> 00:10:06.680] So yeah, utility bills are high with laundromats.
[00:10:06.680 --> 00:10:11.160] But I always tell people I'm willing to pay really high bills if I'm making a lot of money.
[00:10:11.160 --> 00:10:11.720] Yeah.
[00:10:11.720 --> 00:10:19.720] Is there a rule of thumb for what a machine should bring in over the course of a week, over the course of a month?
[00:10:19.720 --> 00:10:25.880] I mean, that really varies based on the size of the machine and the traffic in the store.
[00:10:26.200 --> 00:10:30.760] So laundromat performance is measured on turns per day.
[00:10:30.760 --> 00:10:36.200] And that is basically an average of how many times each day a machine is used.
[00:10:36.520 --> 00:10:46.640] So I think the industry average is a little over three turns per day, which means on average, each machine in the store is used a little over three times a day.
[00:10:46.960 --> 00:10:59.200] And so I tell people if you run your numbers at somewhere between two and a half turns per day or three turns per day, and you're okay with those returns, then you probably have a pretty safe bet.
[00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:07.360] But if you need more than that to get the returns you're looking for, you might want to see either lower the price or look for a new deal.
[00:11:07.360 --> 00:11:07.920] Okay.
[00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:11.280] What does each turn cost the customer?
[00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:13.840] Man, that varies really widely.
[00:11:13.840 --> 00:11:18.160] So there's a lot of different types of sizes of washing machines.
[00:11:18.160 --> 00:11:23.760] And depending on where you're at in the country, also, vending prices can be significantly higher or lower.
[00:11:23.760 --> 00:11:33.520] You know, prices usually range from like two to you know, some of the really big machines are 14 bucks a load, but they're doing 80 pounds of laundry.
[00:11:33.520 --> 00:11:39.360] So basically you just take everything you own and throw it in one machine and get it all done at once.
[00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:44.960] Yeah, the laundromat industry is really evolving right now to bigger machines, more efficient machines.
[00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:47.120] But with that comes expenses.
[00:11:47.120 --> 00:11:48.960] With that comes expenses.
[00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:54.240] Those machines typically stay with the building, with the sale of the business.
[00:11:54.240 --> 00:11:54.960] Right, yeah.
[00:11:54.960 --> 00:12:08.080] So generally when you purchase a laundromat, you're purchasing the assets of the business, which is, you know, typically the machines and things like the boiler, the changers, the fixtures, you know, the infrastructure, the plumbing, the electrical.
[00:12:08.080 --> 00:12:10.400] That's typically what you're purchasing.
[00:12:10.400 --> 00:12:15.840] Okay, so you can find, connect with a broker or, you know, Google laundromats for sale near you.
[00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:18.560] See if you can find some listings.
[00:12:18.560 --> 00:12:31.560] And then you start this due diligence process of looking at the books to the extent that they're available, doing the in-person coin collection with the owners, trying to see for yourself what it's bringing in, comparing the utility statements.
[00:12:31.880 --> 00:12:33.320] What came next in your case?
[00:12:33.320 --> 00:12:38.120] Oh, so I mean, we ended up pulling the trigger on that first laundromat, and it was rough, man.
[00:12:38.840 --> 00:12:40.360] It was a bad experience.
[00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:50.920] Turned out the broker, we relied solely on the broker because I just had a hard time finding good information about laundromats online.
[00:12:50.920 --> 00:13:01.480] And so I relied pretty much solely on the broker who, you know, sold me on a business that was never going to do, it was never going to perform the way he said it was going to perform.
[00:13:01.480 --> 00:13:03.960] And it was a rough area.
[00:13:04.280 --> 00:13:14.280] And so, you know, we ended up losing a lot of money for a long time before we were able to kind of pull ourselves out of that situation.
[00:13:14.280 --> 00:13:15.800] And it was, it was hard.
[00:13:15.800 --> 00:13:16.840] Yeah, here we are today.
[00:13:16.840 --> 00:13:25.320] And you, despite this not great first experience, you went and bought another, maybe lessons learned, and you've become the advocate.
[00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:28.120] You're like the laundromatresource.com guy.
[00:13:28.120 --> 00:13:28.520] Yeah.
[00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:29.480] Yeah.
[00:13:29.480 --> 00:13:29.960] Yeah.
[00:13:29.960 --> 00:13:36.840] Well, you know, I figured I paid a lot of money and a lot of emotional stress and trauma for these lessons.
[00:13:36.840 --> 00:13:38.760] So I decided to put them to work.
[00:13:38.760 --> 00:13:43.000] And so we did buy another one and we got some land with it, which was nice.
[00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:45.000] And then, you know, I just started thinking about it.
[00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:50.520] And I was like, nobody should have to learn the lessons that I learned the way that I learned them.
[00:13:50.520 --> 00:13:55.320] So if I can just help anybody out to get into this business, because there are some gotchas.
[00:13:55.320 --> 00:13:56.920] It is a cash business.
[00:13:56.920 --> 00:14:01.320] There are ways that people can take advantage of you if you're new.
[00:14:01.320 --> 00:14:09.800] And so, you know, I wanted to kind of help get good information out there to really help because I really believe in this business and this business model.
[00:14:09.800 --> 00:14:15.360] And it can really propel you to financial freedom very quickly if you get in it right.
[00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:19.760] If you get in it wrong, it can take a really long time to dig yourself out.
[00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:24.000] And so I really want to help people get into it the correct way.
[00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:28.000] So that's kind of why I started Laundromat Resource and the podcast.
[00:14:28.160 --> 00:14:31.760] Do you have a horror story or two from that first purchase?
[00:14:31.760 --> 00:14:34.880] I'm just curious, like, what mistakes should people be looking for?
[00:14:34.880 --> 00:14:36.320] What mistakes should people avoid?
[00:14:36.320 --> 00:14:39.440] So, number one, I always say, never rely.
[00:14:39.440 --> 00:14:42.640] This seems obvious probably, but it wasn't to me.
[00:14:42.640 --> 00:14:47.920] But never rely on the person whose income depends on you buying anything, really.
[00:14:47.920 --> 00:14:51.920] But a laundromat, like a broker, he's not making money unless you buy that laundromat.
[00:14:51.920 --> 00:14:53.600] Don't rely solely on them.
[00:14:53.600 --> 00:14:58.000] Even if they're a great person, there is a conflict of interest there to a degree.
[00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:15.520] And so I always say, hey, have somebody else who's experienced in the industry whose income doesn't depend on you buying the laundromat, who can help you navigate the waters, who can help you look for red flags, help you figure out what questions you need to ask, what data you need to collect.
[00:15:15.520 --> 00:15:24.000] That was a huge one, huge lesson that I learned that I think is probably important in any business, but especially in a laundromat business.
[00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:29.440] Are you typically assuming the lease on the building, or is the building part of it?
[00:15:29.440 --> 00:15:32.240] I mean, most of them I'm thinking of like kind of in a strip mall.
[00:15:32.240 --> 00:15:34.240] So I assume that's a lease situation.
[00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:36.400] Obviously, you can go either way with that.
[00:15:36.400 --> 00:15:47.360] I do lease one and I own the property with one, but you're typically either assuming the lease or you are negotiating a new lease during the transfer process.
[00:15:47.320 --> 00:15:49.600] And, and you know, the lease is critical.
[00:15:49.600 --> 00:16:01.320] And that's another kind of big mistake to avoid: if you get a bad lease, either too short, too expensive, or bad terms, it's really difficult to move a laundromat.
[00:16:01.640 --> 00:16:12.600] So, if your lease runs out and the landlord decides they don't want to re-up you, or they want to really jack up the rents, you're in a lot of trouble because it's very difficult to move a laundromat.
[00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:15.880] So, you want a good, solid, long-term lease.
[00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:22.600] And so, if the current owner doesn't have that many years left, you know, you probably want to negotiate a new lease.
[00:16:22.600 --> 00:16:25.960] So, I found one, I'm on bizbuysell.com.
[00:16:25.960 --> 00:16:30.600] I found this wasn't super close to me, but this is kind of out in the Central Valley in series.
[00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:33.320] Asking price: $189,000.
[00:16:33.320 --> 00:16:35.160] EBITDA, what's that?
[00:16:35.160 --> 00:16:38.120] Earnings before interest taxes depreciation.
[00:16:38.120 --> 00:16:38.920] I don't know what it stands for.
[00:16:39.080 --> 00:16:41.000] Basically, the net operating income, but yeah.
[00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:46.120] Net operating income is estimated at 70,000, call it 77,000.
[00:16:46.120 --> 00:16:51.880] So, it's trading at a little under two and a half times that, at least the asking price.
[00:16:51.880 --> 00:16:54.520] It says the lease is assumable.
[00:16:54.600 --> 00:16:56.680] Doesn't say when the lease expires.
[00:16:56.680 --> 00:16:59.400] Oh, new lease to be negotiated by owner of real estate.
[00:16:59.400 --> 00:17:01.800] Okay, so that may be a potential red flag.
[00:17:02.200 --> 00:17:03.240] Looks pretty nice, though.
[00:17:03.240 --> 00:17:06.760] At least from the pictures, it looks like there's cars in the parking lot.
[00:17:06.760 --> 00:17:10.520] It doesn't look to be totally abandoned, like some of the strip malls nearby.
[00:17:10.520 --> 00:17:14.600] The flooring could do some work, but like the machines and stuff look like they're in decent shape.
[00:17:14.600 --> 00:17:30.440] Yeah, so on a deal like that, that new lease is really going to determine the actual NOI, you know, because most likely if that lease is coming up, that's a really old lease, and the lease price is probably significantly lower than market value.
[00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:44.440] So, that's going to eat into that NOI, which is probably why it's valued at around two and a half times the NOI, because the real NOI is probably going to be lower after the new lease is put in place.
[00:17:44.440 --> 00:17:45.840] That would be my guess.
[00:17:44.840 --> 00:17:46.080] Okay.
[00:17:46.320 --> 00:17:57.360] Is there such thing as laundromat financing or just a small business loan to try and cash flow this rather than waiting the three years to break even if you're buying it with cash?
[00:17:57.360 --> 00:17:58.320] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:17:58.320 --> 00:18:06.720] And I, I mean, I'm a big proponent of using financing to purchase a business and allowing the business to pay for itself.
[00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:14.720] And so there's, you can get SBA loans for laundromats, but only under very specific situations.
[00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:28.720] So what I always recommend is talk to a couple of laundromat-specific lenders, and they not only know the business and can let you know what you need to get in place to get a laundromat, but their interests are aligned with yours.
[00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:29.920] They want you to succeed.
[00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:31.840] They don't want you to buy a laundromat.
[00:18:31.840 --> 00:18:35.760] You know, that's not going to make money because they're less likely to get paid.
[00:18:35.760 --> 00:18:36.960] So they're on your side.
[00:18:36.960 --> 00:18:44.000] So you get to leverage their experience, their knowledge, and their money when you work with a laundromat-specific lender.
[00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:46.240] How do you recommend finding that person?
[00:18:47.120 --> 00:18:50.320] I have a couple that I work with that are great.
[00:18:50.320 --> 00:18:55.920] I mean, you can Google Laundromat Financing and find Laundromat lenders out there.
[00:18:55.920 --> 00:19:05.840] There's a couple of really big companies, Eastern Funding and Alliance Funding are both some of the big ones out there, but there's others too.
[00:19:05.840 --> 00:19:18.720] If you buy this thing with financing and it pencils out the way you expected it to, is there a projected cash flow that you're shooting for on a monthly basis?
[00:19:19.040 --> 00:19:22.480] Yeah, I mean, it really depends on your situation.
[00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:31.080] If you're using a lot of leverage, obviously your cash flow is going to be less, but your cash on cash return might be pretty high.
[00:19:31.080 --> 00:19:37.080] So, you know, for example, on this deal, you know, call it a $200,000 laundromat.
[00:19:37.080 --> 00:19:53.880] If you put, say, $30,000 in and you finance the rest, you could pretty easily, if the NOI was really $75,000 and after your loan, you know, you could net $25,000 or $30,000, which is 100%, you know, ROI.
[00:19:54.040 --> 00:19:55.080] Cash on cash.
[00:19:55.080 --> 00:19:55.720] Okay.
[00:19:55.720 --> 00:19:56.200] Yeah.
[00:19:56.520 --> 00:20:02.520] So it really depends on your situation because there are laundromats that sell for well over a million bucks.
[00:20:02.520 --> 00:20:09.160] And obviously your cash flow is going to be a lot higher for that laundromat than one that you buy for 50 grand.
[00:20:09.160 --> 00:20:09.560] Okay.
[00:20:09.560 --> 00:20:09.800] Yeah.
[00:20:09.800 --> 00:20:16.040] It makes me want to stop by some of these ones in town and see if they would be interested in selling.
[00:20:16.040 --> 00:20:16.600] I don't know.
[00:20:16.600 --> 00:20:21.720] Does that conversation come up or if people have kind of the systems in place?
[00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:28.360] And I will say on this listing in series, it says that the existing owner, reason for selling, retiring.
[00:20:28.360 --> 00:20:30.680] And so, I mean, is that the reason people would get out of it?
[00:20:30.680 --> 00:20:36.840] Like, hey, this is going to be my retirement nest egg rather than building up a portfolio of rental properties.
[00:20:36.840 --> 00:20:41.880] I'm just going to build equity in this business and then cash out on retirement.
[00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:48.280] Yeah, I mean, retirement is one of the big reasons people get out, which I think is probably a good sign for the industry.
[00:20:48.280 --> 00:20:59.960] You know, because once people are in, if you're spending five, maybe 10 hours, I mean, at that point, you're probably not spending 10, but five or 10 hours a week, you know, and you're cash flowing enough to sustain you.
[00:20:59.960 --> 00:21:01.640] That's pretty tough to give up.
[00:21:01.880 --> 00:21:04.200] So, retirement is one of the big reasons.
[00:21:04.200 --> 00:21:14.680] There are other reasons, also, but I always encourage people, if you're interested in buying a laundromat, start stopping in to laundromats and talking to owners and asking them if they're willing to sell.
[00:21:14.680 --> 00:21:21.840] I've definitely had deals come across my desk that way just from stopping in and talking to laundromat owners.
[00:21:21.840 --> 00:21:27.280] Also, a direct mail campaign, similar to real estate, you can find laundromats for sale that way, too.
[00:21:27.280 --> 00:21:30.240] There's a host of reasons people might want to get out.
[00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:33.680] And so, if you catch them at the right time, you could find yourself a good deal.
[00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:34.240] Okay, right.
[00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:35.440] Same thing with houses, right?
[00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:38.320] Like, if once you go on the MLS, it becomes a little more efficient.
[00:21:38.320 --> 00:21:43.280] But if you can find somebody pre-brokerage, maybe there's a deal to strike there.
[00:21:43.280 --> 00:21:49.840] It's interesting because it seems like it seems like to be a very fragmented industry.
[00:21:49.840 --> 00:21:55.040] And by that, I mean there's no dominant like regional or national player.
[00:21:55.040 --> 00:21:58.560] There's no like 1-800-got junk for the laundromat industry.
[00:21:58.560 --> 00:22:03.200] It's like they all seem to be, you know, maybe mom-and-pop-style businesses.
[00:22:03.200 --> 00:22:03.680] I don't know.
[00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:05.520] Do you find that to be true?
[00:22:05.520 --> 00:22:07.280] Yeah, I think that that's true.
[00:22:07.280 --> 00:22:10.320] And it'll be interesting to see if that remains to be true.
[00:22:10.320 --> 00:22:20.720] I think one of the big barriers to like a big brand or even like a franchise model has been, you know, just the logistics of running that many laundromats.
[00:22:20.720 --> 00:22:29.840] You know, so many laundromats have been coin operated and just the logistics of going to different locations and collecting coins every week.
[00:22:29.840 --> 00:22:32.720] And it's just made it very difficult.
[00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:42.480] But, you know, now there's a lot of technology where there's card payment systems where, you know, you're not really even dealing with coins at all in some of the newer laundromats.
[00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:44.800] And so it's much easier to manage.
[00:22:44.800 --> 00:22:50.240] I had a guy on my podcast, he lives in Italy and he owns a laundromat in Florida.
[00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:55.520] And, you know, so you can kind of manage them from anywhere in the world if you set them up right now.
[00:22:55.840 --> 00:22:59.640] Yeah, but it is a mom-and-pop industry by and large now.
[00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:05.400] And that makes it an inefficient market, which means you can find good deals in the market right now.
[00:23:05.720 --> 00:23:10.600] So if you catch somebody at the right time, in the right situation, you can get a good buy.
[00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:23.000] I'll be right back with Jordan, including more on this remote management possibility, some tax advantages to know about, and the actions Jordan took to turn around his first laundromat right after this.
[00:23:23.320 --> 00:23:26.040] I'm excited to partner with OpenPhone for this episode.
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[00:25:37.840 --> 00:25:41.680] I am interested in this remote management aspect.
[00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:45.200] Talk to me about the day-to-day responsibilities.
[00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:48.880] You know, how much time are you spending on site at these places?
[00:25:49.040 --> 00:25:51.040] A room full of vending machines in a way.
[00:25:51.040 --> 00:25:53.120] Like, do you need somebody to be there?
[00:25:53.120 --> 00:25:57.920] Or is it just, it would be weird to unlock the doors and then just have a free-for-all?
[00:25:57.920 --> 00:26:00.080] Yeah, well, there's a couple of different business models.
[00:26:00.080 --> 00:26:06.000] And one is the doors unlock on their own in the morning, and it's kind of a free-for-all.
[00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:08.080] It's called an unintended laundromat.
[00:26:08.080 --> 00:26:14.320] And basically, you put automatic door locks on, and they open and close on their own.
[00:26:14.320 --> 00:26:21.920] And you do typically need somebody to come in at least once a day to clean up.
[00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:25.440] You know, laundromats tend to get pretty messy pretty fast.
[00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:27.600] A lot of people are coming in and out.
[00:26:27.600 --> 00:26:47.080] So you either have somebody come in for a couple hours to just wipe down the machines and sweep and mop and clean out the lint traps, take out the trash, or the other model is an attended model where you have somebody there all day who's keeping things clean all day and who's helping customers.
[00:26:47.080 --> 00:26:59.880] And maybe they have some other responsibilities also, like manning a store or if there's a service component of the business, like a drop-off laundry service or a pickup and delivery service, maybe they're doing something with that too.
[00:26:59.880 --> 00:27:03.400] Okay, so yeah, if you're hiring for that role, that obviously eats into your cash flow.
[00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:07.320] And so you have to find out as you're buying, is that already baked in?
[00:27:07.320 --> 00:27:08.840] Like, is that manager going to stay?
[00:27:08.840 --> 00:27:17.800] Like, trying to figure out, well, if the owner was doing that all themselves and the net was 75 grand, like that becomes a different equation if you weren't planning on buying yourself a job.
[00:27:17.800 --> 00:27:18.040] Right.
[00:27:18.040 --> 00:27:29.960] And I always tell people in that situation, I would just add in the expenses for an employee and base the value off of that number, not the number that they gave you where they were doing all the work.
[00:27:29.960 --> 00:27:30.840] Gotcha.
[00:27:30.840 --> 00:27:36.280] Yeah, it was in Japan, which probably isn't surprising, where it was the unattended model.
[00:27:36.280 --> 00:27:41.480] Yeah, it was just walk in, here's a bank of machines, and you just do it all yourself.
[00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:42.360] You don't talk to anybody.
[00:27:42.360 --> 00:27:44.920] And it's just very much very technological.
[00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:46.040] We felt.
[00:27:46.040 --> 00:27:49.800] Okay, so there's some management, especially in the coins.
[00:27:49.800 --> 00:27:53.960] Like you got to deal with collecting the coins, taking them to the bank, making sure you have change.
[00:27:53.960 --> 00:27:55.640] Sorry, I want to go back to the financing thing.
[00:27:55.640 --> 00:28:02.200] Like anything else you've seen work on the creative financing side to fund this purchase?
[00:28:02.200 --> 00:28:08.920] Yeah, I mean, one of the huge benefits of laundromats, I think, and I myself, I have laundromats, but I also have real estate.
[00:28:08.920 --> 00:28:10.920] I love real estate investing.
[00:28:10.920 --> 00:28:16.080] But, you know, the average cash flow for laundromat is greater than real estate.
[00:28:16.080 --> 00:28:25.600] But also, the coveted seller financing deal that everybody seems to be looking for in real estate is pretty common actually in laundromats.
[00:28:25.600 --> 00:28:49.040] And the reason for that is because they can be a little more difficult to fund, especially if the owner hasn't kept great records and has mismatching profit and loss sheets and taxes, or just can't demonstrate the income, then they typically have to fund at least some of the purchase price.
[00:28:49.040 --> 00:28:53.840] So, seller financing is a big financing source in laundromats.
[00:28:53.840 --> 00:29:06.640] And also, speaking of real estate, a lot of times real estate investors' ears perk up when I tell them I have laundromats and kind of talk to them about: hey, you know, a 20% return laundromat is a base hit.
[00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:12.320] You know, if you want a home run, you can, anything over 50% is a home run in my book.
[00:29:12.320 --> 00:29:13.600] And their ears perk up.
[00:29:13.600 --> 00:29:27.280] And so, finding money partners, if you can bring the knowledge and the time investment, finding the financial investment is easier, I think, than even finding one for real estate purchases.
[00:29:27.280 --> 00:29:33.280] And what's kind of cool is that you have the ability to evaluate the current state of the business.
[00:29:33.280 --> 00:29:41.120] And maybe it is this guy who's nearing retirement and they haven't optimized it to the full extent that they could.
[00:29:41.120 --> 00:29:47.600] So I think you have this physical space where people are hanging out for an hour or two hours doing their laundry.
[00:29:47.600 --> 00:29:50.160] Like there's other things you can put in there.
[00:29:50.160 --> 00:29:56.080] Like I've seen some with, you know, they had the ATMs and they got vending machines and there's all sorts of stuff.
[00:29:56.080 --> 00:30:03.720] Can you speak a little bit to anything that you've done or you've seen other people do to increase the cash flow from an existing business?
[00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:17.240] This is what really drove me to reach out to you and say, hey, you've got to talk about this on your podcast because not only is a laundromat a great side hustle, but it's kind of the ultimate side hustle because it has side hustles within the side hustle.
[00:30:17.240 --> 00:30:19.080] That's side hustle inception.
[00:30:19.080 --> 00:30:20.120] Yeah, exactly.
[00:30:20.120 --> 00:30:21.560] Side hustle inception.
[00:30:21.560 --> 00:30:22.920] That's, I like that.
[00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:28.280] Because there are a ton of different revenue sources you can integrate within your laundromat.
[00:30:28.280 --> 00:30:32.840] And obviously, you know, your washers and dryers are going to be your main source of income.
[00:30:32.840 --> 00:30:50.200] But like you mentioned, ATM machines, video games, gumball machines, toy machines, claw machines, massage chairs, water stations, adding services like a wash-dry fold service or a pickup and delivery service.
[00:30:50.200 --> 00:30:52.360] There's just a host of things.
[00:30:52.360 --> 00:31:00.440] In fact, on my website, I have like a bunch of a list of a bunch of different value add opportunities for a laundromat.
[00:31:00.440 --> 00:31:11.640] Yeah, the cool thing here is like, yeah, if you can add 500 bucks, $1,000 a month in cash flow, you just added, I don't even know, $40,000 in equity to the business.
[00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:12.040] Yeah.
[00:31:12.040 --> 00:31:19.240] So every dollar of net income you add to your business is going to add three and a half to five dollars of equity.
[00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:21.720] And that's how wealth is built, right?
[00:31:21.720 --> 00:31:23.080] You got to have good cash flow.
[00:31:23.080 --> 00:31:27.160] You got to build up your equity and you got to maximize your tax advantages.
[00:31:27.160 --> 00:31:30.040] If you can do those three things, I called that the wealth tripod.
[00:31:30.040 --> 00:31:35.160] If you can do those three things, then you can build wealth very quickly that way.
[00:31:35.160 --> 00:31:35.480] All right.
[00:31:35.480 --> 00:31:36.840] Well, talk to me about the tax front.
[00:31:36.840 --> 00:31:38.520] That's something we haven't touched on yet.
[00:31:38.520 --> 00:31:38.840] Yeah.
[00:31:38.840 --> 00:31:48.640] And, you know, obvious caveat: I'm not a, you know, a tax advisor or a CPA or anything, but you get typical business perks for having a laundromat.
[00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:54.160] So you can pay your expenses before you claim it as income when you own a business.
[00:31:54.480 --> 00:32:00.480] Instead of when we have a job, we get paid and then we pay our taxes and then we pay our expenses.
[00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:06.960] And when you have a business, you get paid, you pay your expenses, and then you pay your taxes on what's left over.
[00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:10.080] So that's a huge perk in and of itself.
[00:32:10.080 --> 00:32:15.280] But also, you have all this equipment, and this equipment can be depreciated.
[00:32:15.280 --> 00:32:31.600] You know, the rules vary depending on what's going on with tax laws at the moment, but depreciating the equipment basically means the equipment loses value in the IRS's eyes, and you get to deduct that off of your income.
[00:32:31.600 --> 00:32:36.000] So it's as if you didn't get that income, but you still get to keep that income.
[00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:41.600] Okay, with the idea being that eventually it's going to have to be replaced.
[00:32:41.600 --> 00:32:44.560] Well, then you can write that off as a capital expense.
[00:32:44.560 --> 00:32:44.960] Right.
[00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:45.600] Yeah.
[00:32:45.600 --> 00:32:48.000] So there's, I mean, it is similar to real estate.
[00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:50.400] Real estate works in a similar way.
[00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:58.480] But having a business that's based off a physical asset like that allows you to take advantage of that tax perk.
[00:32:58.480 --> 00:32:58.720] Okay.
[00:32:58.720 --> 00:33:04.240] So if you, if you buy a machine for, I have no idea what these things cost, $3,000, let's say.
[00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:10.320] So you can either write that off all at once in the year of purchase if you have the income to do that, yes?
[00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:14.160] Or you can take this depreciation over time.
[00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:16.080] Am I understanding that right?
[00:33:16.080 --> 00:33:16.480] Right.
[00:33:16.480 --> 00:33:17.680] Yeah, exactly.
[00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:18.240] Okay.
[00:33:18.240 --> 00:33:20.640] Is there an advantage to doing one or the other?
[00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:24.080] There are advantages, and I think it depends on your financial situation.
[00:33:24.080 --> 00:33:36.840] Some years, like if you know, for example, down the line you're going to have a big windfall, and you know, this year, for example, you know, your income is going to be a modest income, but next year you're going to get a lot more money.
[00:33:37.080 --> 00:33:45.560] You may want to try to defer some of those write-offs to when you're going to have more income so you can depreciate it against that income.
[00:33:45.880 --> 00:33:50.760] So, I mean, I would recommend talking to a CPA because it can get real complicated real fast.
[00:33:50.760 --> 00:33:56.760] But, you know, the general idea is there are tax benefits also to own in laundromats.
[00:33:56.760 --> 00:33:57.080] Okay.
[00:33:57.080 --> 00:33:59.320] So, you've got the equipment depreciation.
[00:33:59.320 --> 00:34:05.640] If you've got a lease, you're not paying any mortgage interest, but you are able to deduct your lease payment.
[00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:08.760] Any other interesting deductions here?
[00:34:08.760 --> 00:34:10.040] I think those are the big ones.
[00:34:10.040 --> 00:34:18.760] If you buy it with the real estate, for example, my second one that I bought with the real estate, you get to take depreciation on that real estate also.
[00:34:18.760 --> 00:34:25.960] And commercial real estate has some really great accelerated deductions that you can take too.
[00:34:26.120 --> 00:34:29.160] Again, talk to your CPA about it, but that's another perk.
[00:34:29.160 --> 00:34:38.600] And right now, there's actually an awesome SBA 504 loan that's allowing you to purchase real estate.
[00:34:38.600 --> 00:34:41.400] I think it's with 10% down right now.
[00:34:41.400 --> 00:34:49.160] And so, when you're picking up a business like a laundromat, and if you can get the real estate also, you can get that real estate with very little money down.
[00:34:49.160 --> 00:34:58.120] And so, using your business to acquire the real estate and to pay down the real estate, again, is a huge way to accelerate your wealth building.
[00:34:58.120 --> 00:35:06.760] Jordan, tell me about some of the actions that you took to turn around this first purchase that you didn't want, you don't want other people to be in the same boat.
[00:35:06.760 --> 00:35:12.040] Like, what did it take to take this from like, I think we made a horrible mistake to like, okay, this is tolerable?
[00:35:12.040 --> 00:35:14.120] Yeah, I mean, I think that's a great question.
[00:35:14.280 --> 00:35:17.280] It took me a really long time to kind of figure it out.
[00:35:17.280 --> 00:35:25.440] But one of the things I realized eventually is I'm in a situation where obviously I didn't expect to be in that situation.
[00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:29.920] I expected to be in a situation where I was making money and I was actually losing money.
[00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:32.880] And that felt like a punch in the gut.
[00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:43.920] And kind of my options at that point were either to just sell it and get out, cut my losses and get out, or to double down and put more effort into it.
[00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:52.800] Even though I was getting into it, hoping for it to be more passive, it actually ended up having to ramp up my involvement in it.
[00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:58.880] And so some of the things that I did was one, I put in new equipment, and that's a big deal.
[00:35:58.880 --> 00:36:07.200] You know, when people come to your laundromat and it's like playing the slot machines, when you put your quarters in, is the machine going to work or is it not going to work?
[00:36:07.200 --> 00:36:10.080] You lose customers really fast that way.
[00:36:10.400 --> 00:36:17.360] And having new machines not only helps you retain those customers, it attracts new customers.
[00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:18.960] Your utility bills go down.
[00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:22.560] So your expenses go down because they're more efficient machines.
[00:36:22.560 --> 00:36:30.320] You can charge higher vend prices because, you know, they're new machines and customers will pay a premium for that.
[00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:32.800] And so that was one big thing.
[00:36:32.800 --> 00:36:37.920] Another thing was, I think I had a little bit of the field of dreams mentality.
[00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:45.040] If you build it, they will come and put in new machines and everything and kind of expected people to just walk through the door.
[00:36:45.040 --> 00:36:47.440] And some did, but not enough.
[00:36:47.440 --> 00:36:52.960] And so I ended up having to figure out creative ways to get people in the door.
[00:36:52.960 --> 00:37:11.400] So whether that was through, you know, digital advertising on Google and on Facebook, putting up banners and stickers in the windows, running promotions, and also just getting to know customers and getting to know the community a little bit, which actually is the best part of owning a laundromat, by the way.
[00:37:11.400 --> 00:37:13.000] What else worked on the marketing front?
[00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:14.680] This is interesting to say, okay.
[00:37:15.720 --> 00:37:19.880] You're clearly getting your laundry done somewhere else today.
[00:37:19.880 --> 00:37:23.240] I want to conquest that market share and have you come over to see me instead.
[00:37:23.240 --> 00:37:24.520] That's one of the big tricks.
[00:37:24.520 --> 00:37:34.120] If you're buying a laundromat, hoping to, you know, fix it up and improve business is you're really in the business of changing people's habits, right?
[00:37:34.120 --> 00:37:47.160] Because people have a habit of doing their laundry some other way, whether it's in their apartment complex, at a different laundromat, at their home, wherever they're doing it, they have a habit of doing it somewhere else.
[00:37:47.160 --> 00:37:56.600] And I really have kind of developed a marketing strategy that's working really well for my consulting clients right now.
[00:37:56.600 --> 00:38:03.000] And the premise of it is that it takes three visits for a customer to come to your laundromat.
[00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:09.720] And after they've come three times, they're basically, statistically speaking, they're basically your customer at that point.
[00:38:10.040 --> 00:38:21.880] So I tell people when you open a new laundromat or you retool your store, put in new equipment and stuff, you know, step one is do something dramatic to get people in the door the first time.
[00:38:22.200 --> 00:38:25.320] And so whether that's, hey, give free washes.
[00:38:25.320 --> 00:38:33.400] There's a guy here in Southern California when he opens a new store, he does free washes for a month, which costs him a lot of money.
[00:38:33.400 --> 00:38:38.040] But as you can imagine, a lot of people are coming to his laundromat that month.
[00:38:38.040 --> 00:38:41.160] And he can easily rack up three visits in a month.
[00:38:41.160 --> 00:38:42.920] And now those are his customers.
[00:38:42.920 --> 00:38:44.800] He's built a lot of goodwill.
[00:38:44.360 --> 00:38:47.520] But do something dramatic, step one, to get customers in.
[00:38:47.600 --> 00:38:56.800] So whether that's free washes, another popular strategy is like if you have a card store, a card system payment system, you can do like double your money.
[00:38:56.800 --> 00:39:00.080] So put 20 bucks on, we'll add 20 bucks ourselves.
[00:39:00.080 --> 00:39:03.360] Whatever you do, do something dramatic to get people in.
[00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:11.040] Step two is once they come in that first time, your only goal is to get them to come back the second time.
[00:39:11.360 --> 00:39:17.200] And so whatever promotion or marketing thing you do to get them back the second time, do that.
[00:39:17.200 --> 00:39:20.720] And then your goal the second time is to get them to come back the third time.
[00:39:20.720 --> 00:39:23.920] And after you've done that, then they've become your customer.
[00:39:23.920 --> 00:39:27.920] And you just have to keep your value proposition high at that point.
[00:39:27.920 --> 00:39:33.840] Keep your store clean, keep the machines working, and keep smiles on your staff's face.
[00:39:33.840 --> 00:39:36.000] And you got lifelong customers.
[00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:40.880] Yeah, I really like that element of this where, yeah, people, it's like lawn mowing.
[00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:42.320] Well, the grass is going to keep growing.
[00:39:42.320 --> 00:39:44.640] You know, you're going to keep needing this service over and over again.
[00:39:44.640 --> 00:39:46.560] The clothes are going to keep getting dirty.
[00:39:46.560 --> 00:39:48.560] So I do like that aspect of it.
[00:39:48.560 --> 00:39:50.320] I like that it's self-service.
[00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:54.240] Like we joke about this every time we go up to Brentwood for the you pick cherries.
[00:39:54.240 --> 00:39:56.640] It's like we're paying for the cherries and we're doing the labor.
[00:39:56.640 --> 00:39:58.720] Like this is a genius business model.
[00:39:58.720 --> 00:40:01.040] And you say, you know, smiles on your staff's faces.
[00:40:01.040 --> 00:40:09.440] Like, is it typically just, you know, that operator, cleaner, assistant, helper person who is there during the day, like during the hours?
[00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:12.880] Or is there multiple people like kind of on staff at any given time?
[00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:20.080] Yeah, well, I would say for probably for most laundromats, there's usually one person there at a time, if anybody.
[00:40:20.080 --> 00:40:24.320] But some of the bigger stores have multiple employees working there.
[00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:35.560] And especially if they have a big drop-off laundry service or pickup and delivery, you know, I have friends who have 40-plus employees with their laundromats and their services.
[00:40:36.120 --> 00:40:37.640] Jordan, what's next for you?
[00:40:37.640 --> 00:40:41.880] Are you on the hunt for more of these you want to add to your empire?
[00:40:41.880 --> 00:40:44.280] Or what's the future hold?
[00:40:44.280 --> 00:40:47.720] Yeah, I have kind of two fronts I'm working on here.
[00:40:47.960 --> 00:40:51.480] In terms of laundromats, I am on the hunt.
[00:40:51.480 --> 00:41:05.240] In fact, I just brought together, you know, one of the cool things about having a podcast, and maybe you've experienced this too, is you meet some people who are just incredible at particularly people who are incredible at things that I'm not incredible at.
[00:41:05.240 --> 00:41:13.800] And so I've put together a little team and we're actually putting together an investment group to go out and buy laundromats and real estate.
[00:41:13.800 --> 00:41:17.080] You know, we just believe in this business so much and we know it.
[00:41:17.080 --> 00:41:26.680] We've done the hard work and we've learned the expensive lessons and we're going out and we all have some of our own, but we're all going to go get some more.
[00:41:26.680 --> 00:41:33.160] So buy in more and larger laundromats and some commercial real estate on that front.
[00:41:33.480 --> 00:41:56.760] And then on the laundromat resource front, you know, just providing more and more opportunities, not just for people to learn about the industry and to be able to get into it the right way, but also, you know, more and more opportunities for people who know this business to be able to share what they know and share their wealth of knowledge.
[00:41:56.760 --> 00:41:59.720] And so trying to be a platform where people can do that.
[00:41:59.720 --> 00:42:04.840] Were there other laundromat podcasts when you started or were you trailblazing there?
[00:42:04.840 --> 00:42:14.360] There was one other, a man named Ken Barrett, who's a great advocate for the industry, has had a, I think it was the Laundromat How-To podcast.
[00:42:14.360 --> 00:42:16.720] He's since stopped that one.
[00:42:16.720 --> 00:42:23.280] There's been a couple more that have popped up since, I think, with just the success of my podcast.
[00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:25.600] Surprising success, honestly.
[00:42:25.600 --> 00:42:26.880] No, why do you say that?
[00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:28.880] Well, I mean, it's a laundromat podcast.
[00:42:29.200 --> 00:42:29.920] I don't know.
[00:42:29.920 --> 00:42:31.840] Like, people are interested in it.
[00:42:31.840 --> 00:42:51.360] And my podcast is interesting compared to the other ones that are out there mostly because I do long form interviews with owners and I ask them questions about their business and about their experience and try to pull out their lessons they've learned and their wisdom and get advice from them for the listeners.
[00:42:51.360 --> 00:42:56.720] And I think people are just really responding to hearing people's stories and learning from them.
[00:42:56.720 --> 00:43:01.280] But, you know, it is a laundromat podcast, so it's just kind of surprising how many people listen to it.
[00:43:01.280 --> 00:43:02.560] That's awesome, man.
[00:43:02.560 --> 00:43:05.440] Well, there you have it, the laundromatresource.com.
[00:43:05.440 --> 00:43:08.320] Check Jordan out at the Laundromat Resource podcast.
[00:43:08.320 --> 00:43:10.160] Like you said, it's a Laundromat podcast.
[00:43:10.160 --> 00:43:12.000] It delivers what it promises.
[00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:18.800] And you got me interested in this business as an investment for the passive cash flow, for the ROI.
[00:43:18.800 --> 00:43:29.440] Definitely an interesting one as a way to put either some existing assets to work, put some sweat equity to work, and see what else is out there for that.
[00:43:29.440 --> 00:43:31.280] So Jordan, thanks again for joining me.
[00:43:31.280 --> 00:43:35.120] Let's wrap this thing up with your number one tip for Side Hustle Nation.
[00:43:35.120 --> 00:43:38.880] This does not have to be laundromat related, but it can be.
[00:43:38.880 --> 00:43:42.000] Just whatever entrepreneurial wisdom you'd like to impart.
[00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:53.360] Yeah, I think one of the big lessons I learned was when you work with the best people and whatever it is that you're doing, when you work with the best people, you end up becoming one of the best people.
[00:43:53.360 --> 00:43:54.800] Work with the best, become the best.
[00:43:54.800 --> 00:44:03.160] And that's on, you know, both people who are, you know, maybe like for a laundromat, for example, brokers or distributors helping you buy equipment.
[00:43:59.840 --> 00:44:06.280] When you work with the best, they're going to help you become the best.
[00:44:06.600 --> 00:44:16.200] And also, you know, on the employee front, when you hire the best people, they're going to help you propel your business forward and become the best.
[00:44:16.200 --> 00:44:18.680] So work with the best, become the best.
[00:44:18.680 --> 00:44:19.240] I like it.
[00:44:19.240 --> 00:44:19.880] That's a new one.
[00:44:19.880 --> 00:44:21.240] So thank you for sharing that.
[00:44:21.240 --> 00:44:24.840] Jordan, again, thanks for joining us, and we'll catch up with you soon.
[00:44:24.920 --> 00:44:26.280] Appreciate it, Nick.
[00:44:30.040 --> 00:44:40.840] Definitely an interesting option to take a look at from an investment perspective, a cash flow perspective, a potential way to buy yourself an income stream that replaces your day job.
[00:44:40.840 --> 00:44:48.120] But like Jordan said, do your diligence, do your homework, look for inefficiencies, look for opportunities to improve operations.
[00:44:48.120 --> 00:44:53.720] And I think the same strategies apply to buying an online business as to buying an offline one.
[00:44:53.720 --> 00:45:03.960] One of the most popular episodes of the show is my chat with Stacey Caprio on buying up small-ish online businesses eventually enough to replace her salary.
[00:45:03.960 --> 00:45:05.480] But it's not without risk.
[00:45:05.480 --> 00:45:10.360] In fact, I think her first couple purchases didn't turn out that well, if I'm remembering correctly.
[00:45:10.360 --> 00:45:14.440] But I mean, you're not going to find 20 to 30% ROIs anywhere without risk.
[00:45:14.440 --> 00:45:17.160] In any case, that was episode 323.
[00:45:17.160 --> 00:45:25.640] If you want to go back into the archives and check that one out, notes and links for this episode are at sidehustlenation.com/slash laundry.
[00:45:25.640 --> 00:45:28.840] And before we go, would you like more money-making ideas?
[00:45:28.840 --> 00:45:31.080] That's what my weekly newsletter is all about.
[00:45:31.080 --> 00:45:35.880] 75,000 people are already getting it, and I would love to send it to you as well.
[00:45:35.880 --> 00:45:43.960] You can join for free at sidehustlenation.com/slash join or through the link in the episode description of your podcast player app.
[00:45:43.960 --> 00:45:53.360] You'll also get access to hundreds of members-only goodies and bonus files that I've created over the years, including any future ones that I end up building for upcoming episodes.
[00:45:53.360 --> 00:45:57.200] Once again, that's at sidehustlenation.com slash join.
[00:45:57.200 --> 00:46:06.400] We're about to jump in the time machine and get a real-time look at where Jordan's business is today, what ended up happening with that investment pool, and the current state of the laundromat industry.
[00:46:06.400 --> 00:46:09.520] But first, let's take a quick break to thank our sponsors.
[00:46:09.520 --> 00:46:21.120] Years ago, this is probably 2009, I'm sitting in this conference in Santa Barbara, and the presenter asks this question: Are you working on your business or are you working in your business?
[00:46:21.120 --> 00:46:28.960] I saw myself as this full-time entrepreneur, but it was this moment of clarity that, no, I was still very much working in the business day to day.
[00:46:28.960 --> 00:46:32.240] So, when I got back home, that's when I made my first full-time hire.
[00:46:32.240 --> 00:46:42.320] It was the first in a long series, in an ongoing series of steps in trying to take control by being okay of letting go of certain tasks.
[00:46:42.320 --> 00:46:49.120] Now, when you find yourself in that position of needing to hire like yesterday, you need our sponsor, Indeed.
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[00:46:58.240 --> 00:47:01.200] That's why for my next hire, I'm using Indeed.
[00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:10.400] Side Hustle Show listeners get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com/slash sidehustle show.
[00:47:10.400 --> 00:47:18.160] Just go to indeed.com/slash sidehustle show right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast.
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[00:47:21.040 --> 00:47:22.640] Terms and conditions apply.
[00:47:22.640 --> 00:47:25.280] Hiring, indeed, is all you need.
[00:47:25.280 --> 00:47:36.200] You know, when you're shopping online and you see that little purple shop pay button at checkout, that's a sign that the store you're on is one of the millions of businesses powered by our partner, Shopify.
[00:47:36.520 --> 00:47:40.120] Shopify makes it incredibly easy to start and run your business.
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[00:48:06.360 --> 00:48:11.240] If you want to see less carts being abandoned, it's time to head over to Shopify.
[00:48:11.240 --> 00:48:17.800] Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com/slash sidehustle.
[00:48:17.800 --> 00:48:21.160] Go to shopify.com/slash sidehustle.
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[00:48:29.400 --> 00:48:31.160] All right, we just got out of the time machine.
[00:48:31.160 --> 00:48:33.080] It is mid-2025.
[00:48:33.080 --> 00:48:37.080] It is four and a half years since we last caught up with Jordan.
[00:48:37.080 --> 00:48:38.760] So, give me the rundown.
[00:48:38.760 --> 00:48:42.120] What's the current state of your laundromat empire here?
[00:48:42.120 --> 00:48:47.480] Oh, so between partnerships and my own kind of laundromats, I'm at five right now.
[00:48:47.480 --> 00:48:47.960] Okay.
[00:48:48.280 --> 00:48:50.840] But more coming down the pipeline for sure.
[00:48:50.840 --> 00:48:54.760] We've got a couple more that are probably going to close here within the next few months.
[00:48:54.760 --> 00:48:55.000] Yeah.
[00:48:55.000 --> 00:49:14.440] So you ended up starting what you called kind of an investor pool, like almost like a syndication, it sounds like, where we're going to go out and try and find bigger, better laundromats and put an operator in place and try and do it more passively than showing up and collecting corridors yourself.
[00:49:14.440 --> 00:49:24.960] The biggest hurdle for that was actually finding deals and finding enough capacity, enough deals in order to put that money to work.
[00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:30.640] Because of the podcast, because of your reputation in the industry, the raising money problem wasn't an issue.
[00:49:30.640 --> 00:49:33.920] It was like the deal flow or the inventory.
[00:49:34.240 --> 00:49:35.440] Yeah, the deal flow.
[00:49:35.440 --> 00:49:40.720] And so, you know, we tried a whole bunch of different things, including, you know, trying to buy larger portfolios.
[00:49:40.720 --> 00:49:47.120] There just aren't that many of them and they don't come up for sale that often, which is a good and a bad thing, right?
[00:49:47.120 --> 00:49:53.840] It's a bad thing because it's hard to find those portfolio deals to deploy that larger amount of capital all at once.
[00:49:53.840 --> 00:50:02.880] But the good news of it is it's like a witness to how good the business can be and how you can run a larger portfolio relatively passively.
[00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:06.560] So ran into a lot of obstacles and ended up shifting gears on that.
[00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:13.680] However, since we last talked, a lot more has kind of happened in the industry that is making it more possible.
[00:50:13.680 --> 00:50:23.600] So actually that dream is being revived because there's some new tools and resources available now that weren't available even just four years ago to help us be able to do that.
[00:50:23.600 --> 00:50:31.280] Not only acquire those laundromats, but also or build, but also to manage those laundromats much more effectively.
[00:50:31.280 --> 00:50:33.520] It's become a kind of a buzzworthy thing.
[00:50:33.520 --> 00:50:37.920] Laundromats, storage facilities, car washes, people trying to get in this space.
[00:50:37.920 --> 00:50:42.320] Has that made it more difficult to shop for, to find deals?
[00:50:43.840 --> 00:50:44.720] There's more competition.
[00:50:44.720 --> 00:50:51.120] There's more buyers out there than there were, thanks in part to your content, to the Cody Sanchez of the world.
[00:50:51.160 --> 00:50:54.240] There's it's become a thing.
[00:50:54.560 --> 00:50:55.200] Oh, yeah.
[00:50:55.200 --> 00:50:55.520] Yeah, yeah.
[00:50:55.680 --> 00:50:59.040] And not just, not just for me or my investment group or anything like that.
[00:50:59.040 --> 00:51:03.560] I mean, just like a lot of my consulting clients are just, they're having problems.
[00:50:59.680 --> 00:51:06.600] There's a lot more buyer demand than there are sellers right now.
[00:50:59.840 --> 00:51:06.760] Yeah.
[00:51:07.000 --> 00:51:09.240] Again, which is sort of a good thing and a bad thing, right?
[00:51:09.240 --> 00:51:13.320] It just shows how strong the industry is and how strong the business is.
[00:51:13.320 --> 00:51:16.120] But when you're trying to buy them, it's tough.
[00:51:16.120 --> 00:51:20.120] Is there a certain multiple where you're like, this doesn't make sense?
[00:51:20.120 --> 00:51:21.640] Like, I've been on the other side of it.
[00:51:21.640 --> 00:51:24.840] I know there's going to be some problems and headaches and challenges.
[00:51:25.320 --> 00:51:30.520] And it's like, at a certain point, I got to go find something else to invest in.
[00:51:30.520 --> 00:51:32.600] We've definitely seen the multiples creep up.
[00:51:32.600 --> 00:51:38.440] I think we talked maybe three to five times the net for the multiple in terms of valuation.
[00:51:38.440 --> 00:51:42.200] Now we're looking at four and a half to five and a half in most markets.
[00:51:42.200 --> 00:51:48.200] And in the larger markets, you're starting at five, even for the kind of rundown laundromats.
[00:51:48.200 --> 00:51:49.800] And is there a multiple?
[00:51:49.800 --> 00:51:52.840] I mean, it really depends on your goals of what you're trying to do.
[00:51:53.000 --> 00:52:00.360] And you couple that with higher interest rates and all of a sudden that higher operating costs, utility costs have gone up, labor's gone up.
[00:52:00.360 --> 00:52:02.280] I mean, everything's kind of gone up.
[00:52:02.280 --> 00:52:03.320] Rents have gone up.
[00:52:03.640 --> 00:52:04.600] Is it still pencil?
[00:52:04.600 --> 00:52:07.320] Like, are you still excited about it as a potential side hustle?
[00:52:07.320 --> 00:52:10.920] Or is it like, I don't know, maybe that ship has sailed?
[00:52:11.240 --> 00:52:12.440] It's still pencils.
[00:52:12.440 --> 00:52:14.040] There's just so much margin in there.
[00:52:14.040 --> 00:52:19.960] And even still, at a 5x multiple, all cash, you're still getting a 20% return on your investment.
[00:52:19.960 --> 00:52:23.880] And then obviously, if you throw leverage on it, that number can go up from there.
[00:52:23.880 --> 00:52:29.000] So even at a higher valuation, you're still doing pretty well.
[00:52:29.000 --> 00:52:31.400] And that's assuming no growth of the business, et cetera.
[00:52:31.400 --> 00:52:33.480] So it definitely is still pencils.
[00:52:33.480 --> 00:52:38.360] The major hurdle right now is actually persevering long enough to actually find that deal.
[00:52:38.360 --> 00:52:43.880] Any strategies that you're that you're working or you're comfortable sharing on the shopping side or deal sourcing side?
[00:52:43.880 --> 00:52:48.960] We talked about some of the biz buy sell type of brokerages or types of marketplaces.
[00:52:44.840 --> 00:52:52.000] We talked about knocking on doors, driving for dollars.
[00:52:52.160 --> 00:52:54.400] We talked about some direct mail strategies.
[00:52:54.400 --> 00:52:58.880] Anything else you see in work for yourself or your coaching clients?
[00:52:58.880 --> 00:53:01.360] All those things are still important to do.
[00:53:01.360 --> 00:53:05.040] Looking for those brokers, doing direct mail, doing some door knocking.
[00:53:05.040 --> 00:53:23.920] You got to get a little more creative, maybe checking Facebook Marketplace, Craigslist type stuff, working with distributors who sell equipment, maybe checking with maintenance technicians who service laundromats because they're the ones we're going to know when the owners are frustrated and ready to sell first.
[00:53:23.920 --> 00:53:24.800] Okay, okay.
[00:53:24.800 --> 00:53:25.360] Right.
[00:53:25.360 --> 00:53:27.520] And then work all the different angles.
[00:53:27.520 --> 00:53:27.920] Yeah.
[00:53:27.920 --> 00:53:28.160] Yeah.
[00:53:28.160 --> 00:53:32.400] The main strategy here is increased volume.
[00:53:32.400 --> 00:53:35.360] Like of in as much as you, I mean, I get it.
[00:53:35.360 --> 00:53:42.240] Like we, most of us have like jobs and we have lives and we have families and friends and things to do.
[00:53:42.240 --> 00:53:57.120] But as much volume of direct mail, of cold calling, of talking to broker, like as much volume as you can do, that's going to give you a higher success rate or chances of success in a timely fashion.
[00:53:57.120 --> 00:54:02.960] One big shift, it looks like, I mean, you're joining me from Hawaii instead of SoCal where the laundromats are.
[00:54:02.960 --> 00:54:06.240] So that seems like a big, a big shift in remote management.
[00:54:06.240 --> 00:54:06.720] Yeah.
[00:54:06.720 --> 00:54:06.960] Yeah.
[00:54:06.960 --> 00:54:07.120] Yeah.
[00:54:07.520 --> 00:54:13.680] If you listen to the first one, like the original goal was to get a house on the beach in Hawaii or a condo on the beach in Hawaii.
[00:54:13.680 --> 00:54:14.480] And we ended up with a laundry mat.
[00:54:14.640 --> 00:54:16.960] Took a little detour, a little side path, yeah, to get there.
[00:54:17.040 --> 00:54:17.520] That's right.
[00:54:17.760 --> 00:54:22.960] Here we are a decade later, and uh, finally, you know, across the street from the beach over here, which is pretty sweet.
[00:54:22.960 --> 00:54:30.040] I maybe have even talked about how, like, for decades, this industry has not changed, has not developed technologically.
[00:54:30.040 --> 00:54:31.480] We're behind the times.
[00:54:29.760 --> 00:54:34.680] However, in the last four years, we've made some pretty big strides.
[00:54:34.840 --> 00:54:48.680] I wouldn't say that we're on the cutting edge or anything yet, but made some pretty big strides in terms of technology, payment systems, operating software, management opportunities to be able to manage remotely.
[00:54:48.680 --> 00:54:51.480] That has been a game changer.
[00:54:51.480 --> 00:55:05.560] And I would say probably that in combination of an elevated presence in social media has been the main thing that has brought kind of more savvy, more sophisticated entrepreneurs and investors.
[00:55:05.560 --> 00:55:10.360] And we're even starting to see some private equity money trying to creep into the space now.
[00:55:10.520 --> 00:55:29.400] I think in large part is because the awareness has been elevated, but right at the time when the ability to manage remotely, to be able to manage a larger portfolio, to be able to get the data that you need to be able to make good business decisions is now, it's here finally.
[00:55:29.400 --> 00:55:30.520] It's in the palm of our hand.
[00:55:30.520 --> 00:55:31.720] So we can utilize that now.
[00:55:31.720 --> 00:55:44.200] Yeah, in terms of so one driver would be like a cashless payment system so you can kind of manage or you get a sense of performance remotely without having to log in.
[00:55:44.200 --> 00:55:47.240] And we've heard about this in like vending machines, for example.
[00:55:47.400 --> 00:55:52.680] I don't have to go by the machine to see what's out of stock because it tells me on the app what's going to be needed.
[00:55:52.680 --> 00:55:58.280] And imagine you can do similar things here without having to be on site all the time.
[00:55:58.280 --> 00:56:02.360] It sounds like maybe the building itself can be mostly unattended.
[00:56:02.360 --> 00:56:11.160] You know, somebody come in and clean it up, take care of it once a day, check on things, but not on site 24-7.
[00:56:11.480 --> 00:56:11.880] Yeah.
[00:56:11.880 --> 00:56:19.440] Well, and what's interesting too is over the last, I'd say, four years, maybe this is already happening four years ago, but we've seen it kind of accelerate.
[00:56:19.520 --> 00:56:32.720] Is there's this sort of bifurcation in the industry happening where you've got a lot more tools to remote manage and automate a lot of things, like you said, and you have less of a need for somebody to be there.
[00:56:32.720 --> 00:56:42.320] But also, you've got these full-service laundry centers that are developing here where they're fully staffed all times.
[00:56:42.320 --> 00:56:44.480] They're open long hours.
[00:56:44.480 --> 00:56:47.280] They highly focus on customer service.
[00:56:47.600 --> 00:56:50.000] They offer drop-off service.
[00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:53.120] They do pickup and delivery out of their locations.
[00:56:53.680 --> 00:56:59.760] And they become sort of a one-stop shop for all things laundry, dry cleaning, all that stuff.
[00:56:59.760 --> 00:57:00.320] Right.
[00:57:00.320 --> 00:57:02.800] And we're seeing a lot more of those.
[00:57:02.800 --> 00:57:04.720] It's leading to larger locations.
[00:57:04.720 --> 00:57:09.680] It's leading to higher revenues, but obviously a lot more involved.
[00:57:10.160 --> 00:57:11.520] Sure, more labor involved.
[00:57:11.520 --> 00:57:11.920] Yeah.
[00:57:11.920 --> 00:57:12.160] Yeah.
[00:57:12.160 --> 00:57:16.880] At least initially, until you can get management in place and get that machine running from you.
[00:57:16.880 --> 00:57:28.560] But I've got some buddies who are operating some of these big super centers and are just as passive as the person running the unattended stores.
[00:57:28.560 --> 00:57:29.440] Yeah, it's funny.
[00:57:29.440 --> 00:57:37.280] One of the most, probably the most popular book that's been recommended on the show in the last 12 to 18 months is Buy Back Your Time by Dan Marte

Prompt 2: Key Takeaways

Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.

Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...". 

Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive. 

IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}

Prompt 3: Segments

Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.

For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)  
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion

IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
  "segments": [
    {
      "segment_title": "Topic Discussion", 
      "timestamp": "01:15:30",
      "key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
      "segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
    }
  ]
}

Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.

Prompt 4: Media Mentions

Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:

Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)  
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)

DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names

IMPORTANT: 
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
  "media_mentions": [
    {
      "title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
      "category": "Book",
      "author_artist": "N/A",
      "context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
      "context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
      "timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
    }
  ]
}

If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}

Prompt 5: Context Setup

You are an expert data extractor tasked with analyzing a podcast transcript. 
I will provide you with part 2 of 2 from a podcast transcript. 
I will then ask you to extract different types of information from this content in subsequent messages. Please confirm you have received and understood the transcript content.

Transcript section:
on things, but not on site 24-7.
[00:56:11.480 --> 00:56:11.880] Yeah.
[00:56:11.880 --> 00:56:19.440] Well, and what's interesting too is over the last, I'd say, four years, maybe this is already happening four years ago, but we've seen it kind of accelerate.
[00:56:19.520 --> 00:56:32.720] Is there's this sort of bifurcation in the industry happening where you've got a lot more tools to remote manage and automate a lot of things, like you said, and you have less of a need for somebody to be there.
[00:56:32.720 --> 00:56:42.320] But also, you've got these full-service laundry centers that are developing here where they're fully staffed all times.
[00:56:42.320 --> 00:56:44.480] They're open long hours.
[00:56:44.480 --> 00:56:47.280] They highly focus on customer service.
[00:56:47.600 --> 00:56:50.000] They offer drop-off service.
[00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:53.120] They do pickup and delivery out of their locations.
[00:56:53.680 --> 00:56:59.760] And they become sort of a one-stop shop for all things laundry, dry cleaning, all that stuff.
[00:56:59.760 --> 00:57:00.320] Right.
[00:57:00.320 --> 00:57:02.800] And we're seeing a lot more of those.
[00:57:02.800 --> 00:57:04.720] It's leading to larger locations.
[00:57:04.720 --> 00:57:09.680] It's leading to higher revenues, but obviously a lot more involved.
[00:57:10.160 --> 00:57:11.520] Sure, more labor involved.
[00:57:11.520 --> 00:57:11.920] Yeah.
[00:57:11.920 --> 00:57:12.160] Yeah.
[00:57:12.160 --> 00:57:16.880] At least initially, until you can get management in place and get that machine running from you.
[00:57:16.880 --> 00:57:28.560] But I've got some buddies who are operating some of these big super centers and are just as passive as the person running the unattended stores.
[00:57:28.560 --> 00:57:29.440] Yeah, it's funny.
[00:57:29.440 --> 00:57:37.280] One of the most, probably the most popular book that's been recommended on the show in the last 12 to 18 months is Buy Back Your Time by Dan Martell.
[00:57:37.280 --> 00:57:44.640] And I'm working my way through it, but common examples like, I really don't, doing laundry doesn't really light me up.
[00:57:44.640 --> 00:57:49.120] You know, I don't really check that box of where's my zone of genius.
[00:57:49.120 --> 00:57:53.840] And so, more and more people perhaps are shifting towards outsourcing this chore.
[00:57:53.840 --> 00:57:59.960] And we've seen services, there's a couple kind of like Uber for laundry, where it's like Poplin is one.
[00:57:59.680 --> 00:58:03.080] I think there's another one called Hamper, or maybe they emerged or something.
[00:58:03.400 --> 00:58:09.720] But it's like, and from the side hustle perspective, like, oh, if you are the person who likes doing laundry, you can get paid to do other people's laundry.
[00:58:09.880 --> 00:58:21.240] Have you seen kind of that shift where more and more it's not just the people who don't have a washer and dryer in their house, in their apartment, it's the people who are like, I just don't want to deal with this anymore.
[00:58:21.240 --> 00:58:23.240] Like, hire this out.
[00:58:23.240 --> 00:58:27.480] Yeah, we've seen a huge explosion of that.
[00:58:27.480 --> 00:58:35.320] Uh, and that side of the industry, that service side, the drop-off laundry where you drop it off the location or the pickup and delivery is growing by leaps and bounds.
[00:58:35.320 --> 00:58:41.480] Uh, and I genuinely think that laundry is going to become the next yard work.
[00:58:41.480 --> 00:58:44.440] Like, where I live, people aren't really mowing their lawns.
[00:58:44.440 --> 00:58:44.840] Yeah.
[00:58:45.160 --> 00:58:58.360] And I think as people learn that I can just drop my dirty laundry on my front porch and somebody will come grab it and the laundry fairy brings it back clean and folded for me.
[00:58:58.360 --> 00:59:01.080] That I just think more and more people are going to opt for that.
[00:59:01.080 --> 00:59:02.600] Speaking of buyback your time, right?
[00:59:02.600 --> 00:59:06.440] Like, who wants to be doing laundry half the day on Saturday?
[00:59:07.000 --> 00:59:07.800] Nobody, right?
[00:59:07.800 --> 00:59:10.520] Well, it's not, there are some weirdos that love laundry.
[00:59:10.680 --> 00:59:11.800] I'll just say that.
[00:59:12.040 --> 00:59:12.840] Love doing laundry.
[00:59:13.000 --> 00:59:13.480] I don't know.
[00:59:13.480 --> 00:59:15.000] I'm in charge of the laundry in our house.
[00:59:15.000 --> 00:59:18.360] And it's like, it's not, it's not something I dread doing.
[00:59:18.360 --> 00:59:20.680] I mean, the machine does most of the work and then you got to try it.
[00:59:21.240 --> 00:59:27.400] It's an excuse to, you know, listen to a podcast or watch some Netflix or something, but it's not the end of the world.
[00:59:27.400 --> 00:59:41.880] But I could see if from the side hustle perspective, like, yeah, the acquisition side has become more competitive here, but also the upside and the pie has maybe gotten a little bit bigger as well on the demand of who's using this type of service.
[00:59:41.880 --> 00:59:42.280] Yeah.
[00:59:42.280 --> 00:59:49.680] And we're actually seeing a lot more people come in solely on the service side, or at least initially on the service side, right?
[00:59:49.680 --> 00:59:58.480] So, a lot of people are starting pickup and delivery businesses in their communities before owning or without owning a laundromat, right?
[00:59:58.480 --> 01:00:07.440] And they'll just process the laundry at a laundromat or they'll build something out in their garage or in a shed out back or lots of different ways people are doing it.
[01:00:07.440 --> 01:00:14.880] But I'm seeing a lot more people doing that and doing it as a side hustle kind of before and after work.
[01:00:14.880 --> 01:00:21.040] The beauty of the service side of the business is really the sky's the limit on what you can do.
[01:00:21.040 --> 01:00:29.520] On a physical location, you're limited by your capacity of how much business you can do, but on the pickup and delivery side, I mean, you can process overnight.
[01:00:29.520 --> 01:00:30.960] You can go to multiple locations.
[01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:33.120] You can go to other people's locations and process it.
[01:00:33.120 --> 01:00:34.640] There's lots of options there.
[01:00:34.640 --> 01:00:35.120] Yeah.
[01:00:35.120 --> 01:00:35.360] Yeah.
[01:00:35.360 --> 01:00:35.920] That's an interesting.
[01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:41.040] I mean, that's what these kind of startup peer-to-peer laundry type of services are essentially doing.
[01:00:41.200 --> 01:00:48.720] We can build a distributed army of contractors, laundry contractors, and we can go out and serve tons and tons of clients.
[01:00:48.720 --> 01:00:49.280] Yeah.
[01:00:49.600 --> 01:00:57.200] Anything else, trend-wise, or in the personal portfolio that is interesting of note over the last few years?
[01:00:57.200 --> 01:01:00.880] I'm seeing a consolidation right now starting to happen.
[01:01:00.880 --> 01:01:05.440] There's fewer owners owning larger portfolios.
[01:01:05.440 --> 01:01:07.920] This has been traditionally a mom and pop industry, right?
[01:01:07.920 --> 01:01:09.520] Like it's not rocket science.
[01:01:09.520 --> 01:01:10.560] It's just laundry.
[01:01:10.560 --> 01:01:12.720] And yeah, that's something we talked about.
[01:01:12.720 --> 01:01:14.560] It was super, super fragmented.
[01:01:14.560 --> 01:01:15.680] Yeah, and it still is.
[01:01:15.680 --> 01:01:17.200] I mean, it still by and large is.
[01:01:17.200 --> 01:01:23.200] However, there are more people getting more aggressive about building or buying laundromats and building.
[01:01:23.280 --> 01:01:25.760] Private equity roll-ups are coming for you.
[01:01:25.760 --> 01:01:26.320] They're coming.
[01:01:26.320 --> 01:01:31.480] And I think with that comes multiples that start to go up even more.
[01:01:32.040 --> 01:01:38.120] It wouldn't surprise me if down the line we start seeing 10x multipliers in the business.
[01:01:38.120 --> 01:01:38.440] Yeah.
[01:01:38.440 --> 01:01:38.760] All right.
[01:01:38.760 --> 01:01:40.280] Well, now's the time to get in.
[01:01:40.280 --> 01:01:48.840] If you find one for sale in your hometown, you can find Jordan again at laundromatresource.com hosting the laundromat resource podcast.
[01:01:48.840 --> 01:01:50.760] Any other advice before we wrap?
[01:01:50.760 --> 01:01:56.920] If you can persevere enough and actually find those deals, the rewards are still there for you.
[01:01:56.920 --> 01:02:04.680] And in some ways, that barrier is a good thing because it does weed out a lot of competition.
[01:02:04.920 --> 01:02:07.560] So persevere there and then don't go it alone.
[01:02:07.800 --> 01:02:09.640] You know, lots of free resources out there.
[01:02:09.640 --> 01:02:15.080] Lots of people out there help you like with any side hustle or any investment that you're doing.
[01:02:15.320 --> 01:02:20.200] Just save yourself the headache and borrow somebody else's 10,000 hours.
[01:02:20.680 --> 01:02:21.080] Absolutely.
[01:02:21.320 --> 01:02:23.160] Start off on the right foot.
[01:02:23.160 --> 01:02:23.800] Very good.
[01:02:23.800 --> 01:02:25.720] Jordan, thanks so much for sharing your insight.
[01:02:25.720 --> 01:02:28.920] Thanks to our sponsors for helping make this content free for everyone.
[01:02:28.920 --> 01:02:34.840] As always, you can hit up sidehustlenation.com/slash deals for all the latest offers from our sponsors in one place.
[01:02:34.840 --> 01:02:35.880] That is it for me.
[01:02:35.880 --> 01:02:37.400] Thank you so much for tuning in.
[01:02:37.400 --> 01:02:39.960] Until next time, let's go out there and make something happen.
[01:02:39.960 --> 01:02:42.920] And I'll catch you in the next edition of the Side Hustle Show.
[01:02:42.920 --> 01:02:43.720] Hustle on.

Prompt 6: Key Takeaways

Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.

Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...". 

Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive. 

IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}

Prompt 7: Segments

Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.

For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)  
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion

IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
  "segments": [
    {
      "segment_title": "Topic Discussion", 
      "timestamp": "01:15:30",
      "key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
      "segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
    }
  ]
}

Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.

Prompt 8: Media Mentions

Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:

Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)  
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)

DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names

IMPORTANT: 
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
  "media_mentions": [
    {
      "title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
      "category": "Book",
      "author_artist": "N/A",
      "context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
      "context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
      "timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
    }
  ]
}

If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}

Full Transcript

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[00:00:57.440 --> 00:01:00.000] That's policygenius.com.
[00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:02.000] And now, onto the show.
[00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:05.040] Here's one from the Side Hustle Show Greatest Hits Collection.
[00:01:05.040 --> 00:01:13.200] Plus, stick around at the end for the real-time check-in with Jordan to see how his business is doing four and a half years after this original recording.
[00:01:13.520 --> 00:01:14.000] What's up?
[00:01:14.000 --> 00:01:14.560] What's up, Nick?
[00:01:14.800 --> 00:01:15.360] Loper here.
[00:01:15.360 --> 00:01:21.040] Welcome to the Side Hustle Show, because if you mind the nickels and dimes, the dollars take care of themselves.
[00:01:21.040 --> 00:01:26.160] Hat tip to Ben Young for that one, an early mentor of mine in my house painting days.
[00:01:26.160 --> 00:01:38.000] This week's Side Hustle is about minding probably not the nickels and dimes, but definitely the quarters and about how those can add up to some serious cash flow in a laundromat.
[00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:43.840] Owning a laundromat, I think, is one of these stereotypical side hustles that have been around forever.
[00:01:43.840 --> 00:01:48.480] And yet here we are in episode 433, and we haven't talked about this yet.
[00:01:48.480 --> 00:01:50.960] Simple, local, cash-flowing business.
[00:01:50.960 --> 00:02:01.320] I want to say this was one of the examples in the Rich Dad Board Ad Cash Flow Board game where the object of the game is to escape the rat race by buying or building cash flowing assets.
[00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:03.080] Isn't that the game we're all playing?
[00:02:03.080 --> 00:02:04.600] Financial independence, right?
[00:02:04.600 --> 00:02:08.680] In any case, Laundromat's definitely an interesting way to help you get there.
[00:02:08.680 --> 00:02:16.680] When Side Hustle Show listener Jordan Berry reached out about his experience in the laundromat business, I was excited to learn more and share it with you.
[00:02:16.680 --> 00:02:33.400] Stick around in this one to hear why a laundromat makes a great side hustle and investment vehicle, some expensive mistakes to avoid, where to look for financing help, and some creative marketing and monetization ideas to really accelerate your ROI and build equity at the same time.
[00:02:33.400 --> 00:02:37.640] Notes and links for this episode are at sidehustlenation.com/slash laundry.
[00:02:37.640 --> 00:02:41.720] And you can find Jordan at laundromatresource.com.
[00:02:41.720 --> 00:02:45.960] Jordan is a former pastor, now turned multi-laundromat owner.
[00:02:45.960 --> 00:02:48.120] But what made him think this was a great idea?
[00:02:48.120 --> 00:02:48.920] Ready?
[00:02:48.920 --> 00:02:50.280] Let's do it.
[00:02:53.800 --> 00:02:56.760] It's like, wow, that's such a random direction in life.
[00:02:56.760 --> 00:02:57.720] And it is.
[00:02:57.720 --> 00:03:07.240] So when I decided to step aside from pastoral ministry vocationally, we had a chunk of money, but I didn't really have a plan on what to do.
[00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:19.960] And I developed what I thought was a genius plan, which is rent out our house that we owned here in Southern California and go buy a condo in Hawaii and live in Hawaii for a couple of years on the beach.
[00:03:19.960 --> 00:03:25.480] And then when our kids were school age, we could come back to Southern California, net gain condo in Hawaii.
[00:03:25.480 --> 00:03:26.360] And my wife...
[00:03:26.680 --> 00:03:27.880] Come back to me a lot.
[00:03:27.880 --> 00:03:29.320] That sounds like a good plan to me.
[00:03:29.320 --> 00:03:30.760] I still think it's a great plan.
[00:03:30.760 --> 00:03:35.080] But my wife, on the other hand, was like, we should buy a laundromat.
[00:03:35.400 --> 00:03:39.320] And thus begins the saga of the laundromat.
[00:03:39.320 --> 00:03:53.840] And kind of the thought process behind that was, which I think also is a genius idea, but the thought process behind it was, you know, we wanted to put our money into something that would be making money where we didn't have to be there.
[00:03:53.840 --> 00:04:00.720] And this was before I had heard of rich dad, poor dad or investing of any sort really.
[00:04:00.960 --> 00:04:01.840] I was very naive.
[00:04:01.840 --> 00:04:04.160] So this was a very novel idea to me.
[00:04:04.160 --> 00:04:06.000] And I was very intrigued by it.
[00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:07.920] And it kind of sent me down this path.
[00:04:07.920 --> 00:04:10.560] Did your wife's family have a background in running these things?
[00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:13.760] Or she was just like, this seems like a cash flow business.
[00:04:13.760 --> 00:04:14.960] Let's go try it.
[00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:15.360] Yeah.
[00:04:15.360 --> 00:04:25.600] No, she heard of like a, I guess like a family friend who bought a laundromat and he quit his tech job up in Northern California.
[00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:29.680] And that was very inspiring and intriguing.
[00:04:29.680 --> 00:04:33.600] And so that's kind of how we were introduced to the concept.
[00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:43.680] And we thought, man, if he could quit his tech job, you know, and just run a laundromat and he's there, you know, five, ten hours a week max, that sounds like what we want to do.
[00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:44.560] Let's do that.
[00:04:44.560 --> 00:04:49.280] Is there a typical ROI that these things sell for?
[00:04:49.280 --> 00:04:58.240] Like, what's, I mean, you can think of a rental house and, you know, the market is very efficient, at least in certain areas, or at least it's believed to be.
[00:04:58.240 --> 00:05:04.320] And you say, well, here's the cap rate or here's kind of the, you know, cash on cash return I can expect with rent.
[00:05:04.320 --> 00:05:06.400] How are laundromats priced?
[00:05:06.400 --> 00:05:17.040] Yeah, well, I mean, I think that's one of the things that makes laundromats, I think, one of the best businesses out there, which is kind of a funny thing to say because, you know, it's just a laundromat and you probably drive by them all the time and don't notice them.
[00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:24.800] But the way that they're valued is they're valued based on net income and they're valued on a multiple of that net income.
[00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:36.280] And so the typical multiple is three and a half to five, somewhere in that range, you know, depending on the condition and of the equipment and the business and the length of the lease and stuff.
[00:05:36.440 --> 00:05:45.480] But somewhere three to five times net income, which means your returns can easily be over 20 and even over 30 percent.
[00:05:45.480 --> 00:05:50.120] That's unleveraged returns without any leverage.
[00:05:50.120 --> 00:05:51.880] I mean, that's without borrowing money.
[00:05:51.880 --> 00:05:53.480] Yeah, without borrowing money at all.
[00:05:53.480 --> 00:06:02.840] But depending on the price of three to five times net income, it's probably going to be a borrowing money situation, depending on how much this thing is making.
[00:06:03.160 --> 00:06:05.560] I imagine that could add up quickly.
[00:06:05.560 --> 00:06:09.080] It could be an expensive acquisition, but 20 to 30%.
[00:06:09.080 --> 00:06:18.920] So for the comparison, if we look at a traditional rental property, especially with the market the way it is right now, like if you're doing 10, 12, 14%, you're doing excellent there.
[00:06:18.920 --> 00:06:24.200] So you're doing a little bit better here, but there's, I mean, there's maintenance involved.
[00:06:24.200 --> 00:06:27.880] There's equipment and maybe some other stuff to consider.
[00:06:27.880 --> 00:06:30.040] So your wife says, we're going to buy a laundromat.
[00:06:30.040 --> 00:06:32.040] The numbers look interesting.
[00:06:32.040 --> 00:06:32.680] They pencil out.
[00:06:32.760 --> 00:06:34.760] You say, okay, let's go for it.
[00:06:34.760 --> 00:06:37.320] Like, how do you begin shopping for one?
[00:06:37.320 --> 00:06:38.840] I mean, that's a really great question.
[00:06:38.840 --> 00:06:40.360] It was something that we didn't really know.
[00:06:40.360 --> 00:06:42.280] And we just kind of fumbled our way through it.
[00:06:42.280 --> 00:06:44.200] Started probably where everybody starts online.
[00:06:44.200 --> 00:06:59.400] And we just googled laundromats for sale near me and kind of chased laundromats for sale and started trying to get a hold of brokers that were listing laundromats and try to find one that was relatively close to us that we felt like we could make work.
[00:06:59.400 --> 00:07:01.320] So that's kind of where we started.
[00:07:01.320 --> 00:07:03.000] And you found that first one.
[00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:07.240] What was the process like of kicking the proverbial tires?
[00:07:07.240 --> 00:07:08.600] It was kind of exciting, actually.
[00:07:08.760 --> 00:07:10.360] We had never owned a business.
[00:07:10.360 --> 00:07:19.200] And so we got this sneak peek into this business, but the one that we ended up buying was really run down.
[00:07:19.200 --> 00:07:22.560] It was typical what you think of when you think of a laundromat.
[00:07:22.560 --> 00:07:25.840] You know, it was half the lights were out, half the machines didn't work.
[00:07:25.840 --> 00:07:26.720] It was dingy.
[00:07:26.720 --> 00:07:28.800] There were homeless people there.
[00:07:28.800 --> 00:07:33.440] But we were getting in there and we started opening up these machines and counting quarters.
[00:07:33.440 --> 00:07:37.120] And I was like, man, this is pretty interesting.
[00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:42.560] Quarters add up pretty quick and you can make pretty good money with just a bunch of quarters.
[00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:57.440] So we got in there and we just started trying to figure out, you know, the trick to buying a laundromat really is figuring out how much money it's making, how much money it's spending, and is it going to continue to do that after you take over?
[00:07:57.440 --> 00:07:59.520] And what can you do to improve the business, right?
[00:07:59.520 --> 00:08:07.920] So we're kind of asking ourselves those four questions going along the process in order to try to figure out if this was going to be a good fit for us or not.
[00:08:07.920 --> 00:08:14.800] And when someone has their business listed with a brokerage, they've disclosed those financials, profit and loss.
[00:08:14.800 --> 00:08:17.360] Yeah, so those are seller reported.
[00:08:17.360 --> 00:08:19.920] So the brokers relay that information.
[00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:23.840] You know, one of the big tricks to buying a laundromat is that they're all cash businesses.
[00:08:23.840 --> 00:08:30.560] So it can be very difficult to verify those numbers to pinpoint exactly how much money launder mats are making.
[00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:31.680] It can be a little tricky.
[00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:40.960] So there's lots of little tricks and techniques to try to get as much data as possible to get, you know, as close of a guesstimate as possible, but it can be tricky.
[00:08:40.960 --> 00:08:43.040] Is there anything you can do to protect yourself?
[00:08:43.040 --> 00:08:43.680] That's interesting.
[00:08:43.680 --> 00:08:45.200] Yeah, it's an all-cash business.
[00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:50.240] According to the IRS, it made very little, but according to the broker, hey, we're making money hand over fist.
[00:08:50.240 --> 00:08:54.800] Yeah, and I always tell people too, like, and not all laundromat owners are like this.
[00:08:54.800 --> 00:09:05.880] And I think this kind of model of, you know, under-reporting to the government and over-reporting to buyers is, yeah, I think it's going by the wayside because it's just not a good way to do business.
[00:09:06.200 --> 00:09:07.960] But in the past, it's been like that.
[00:09:07.960 --> 00:09:12.680] And I always tell people, hey, if an owner's willing to lie to the government about how much...
[00:09:12.680 --> 00:09:15.560] the laundromat's making, they're willing to lie to you about it too.
[00:09:15.560 --> 00:09:22.200] So you got to be very diligent if their taxes don't match up with what they're saying the business is doing.
[00:09:22.200 --> 00:09:28.440] So a few things to protect yourself is one of the things you want to do is do coin collections during due diligence.
[00:09:28.440 --> 00:09:43.240] After you make an offer and it's accepted, you want to go in and collect coins with the owners every week for a few weeks, three, four, five, six weeks, and just kind of get a feel for how much money is coming in.
[00:09:43.240 --> 00:09:56.600] And while you do that, you also simultaneously take a water meter reading so you can see how much water is being used and you can compare that to previous water bills and how much money the owner says it's making.
[00:09:56.600 --> 00:09:59.560] Is that the biggest expense, just electric and water?
[00:09:59.560 --> 00:10:02.440] Electric, water, and gas, gas for the dryers.
[00:10:02.760 --> 00:10:06.680] So yeah, utility bills are high with laundromats.
[00:10:06.680 --> 00:10:11.160] But I always tell people I'm willing to pay really high bills if I'm making a lot of money.
[00:10:11.160 --> 00:10:11.720] Yeah.
[00:10:11.720 --> 00:10:19.720] Is there a rule of thumb for what a machine should bring in over the course of a week, over the course of a month?
[00:10:19.720 --> 00:10:25.880] I mean, that really varies based on the size of the machine and the traffic in the store.
[00:10:26.200 --> 00:10:30.760] So laundromat performance is measured on turns per day.
[00:10:30.760 --> 00:10:36.200] And that is basically an average of how many times each day a machine is used.
[00:10:36.520 --> 00:10:46.640] So I think the industry average is a little over three turns per day, which means on average, each machine in the store is used a little over three times a day.
[00:10:46.960 --> 00:10:59.200] And so I tell people if you run your numbers at somewhere between two and a half turns per day or three turns per day, and you're okay with those returns, then you probably have a pretty safe bet.
[00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:07.360] But if you need more than that to get the returns you're looking for, you might want to see either lower the price or look for a new deal.
[00:11:07.360 --> 00:11:07.920] Okay.
[00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:11.280] What does each turn cost the customer?
[00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:13.840] Man, that varies really widely.
[00:11:13.840 --> 00:11:18.160] So there's a lot of different types of sizes of washing machines.
[00:11:18.160 --> 00:11:23.760] And depending on where you're at in the country, also, vending prices can be significantly higher or lower.
[00:11:23.760 --> 00:11:33.520] You know, prices usually range from like two to you know, some of the really big machines are 14 bucks a load, but they're doing 80 pounds of laundry.
[00:11:33.520 --> 00:11:39.360] So basically you just take everything you own and throw it in one machine and get it all done at once.
[00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:44.960] Yeah, the laundromat industry is really evolving right now to bigger machines, more efficient machines.
[00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:47.120] But with that comes expenses.
[00:11:47.120 --> 00:11:48.960] With that comes expenses.
[00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:54.240] Those machines typically stay with the building, with the sale of the business.
[00:11:54.240 --> 00:11:54.960] Right, yeah.
[00:11:54.960 --> 00:12:08.080] So generally when you purchase a laundromat, you're purchasing the assets of the business, which is, you know, typically the machines and things like the boiler, the changers, the fixtures, you know, the infrastructure, the plumbing, the electrical.
[00:12:08.080 --> 00:12:10.400] That's typically what you're purchasing.
[00:12:10.400 --> 00:12:15.840] Okay, so you can find, connect with a broker or, you know, Google laundromats for sale near you.
[00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:18.560] See if you can find some listings.
[00:12:18.560 --> 00:12:31.560] And then you start this due diligence process of looking at the books to the extent that they're available, doing the in-person coin collection with the owners, trying to see for yourself what it's bringing in, comparing the utility statements.
[00:12:31.880 --> 00:12:33.320] What came next in your case?
[00:12:33.320 --> 00:12:38.120] Oh, so I mean, we ended up pulling the trigger on that first laundromat, and it was rough, man.
[00:12:38.840 --> 00:12:40.360] It was a bad experience.
[00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:50.920] Turned out the broker, we relied solely on the broker because I just had a hard time finding good information about laundromats online.
[00:12:50.920 --> 00:13:01.480] And so I relied pretty much solely on the broker who, you know, sold me on a business that was never going to do, it was never going to perform the way he said it was going to perform.
[00:13:01.480 --> 00:13:03.960] And it was a rough area.
[00:13:04.280 --> 00:13:14.280] And so, you know, we ended up losing a lot of money for a long time before we were able to kind of pull ourselves out of that situation.
[00:13:14.280 --> 00:13:15.800] And it was, it was hard.
[00:13:15.800 --> 00:13:16.840] Yeah, here we are today.
[00:13:16.840 --> 00:13:25.320] And you, despite this not great first experience, you went and bought another, maybe lessons learned, and you've become the advocate.
[00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:28.120] You're like the laundromatresource.com guy.
[00:13:28.120 --> 00:13:28.520] Yeah.
[00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:29.480] Yeah.
[00:13:29.480 --> 00:13:29.960] Yeah.
[00:13:29.960 --> 00:13:36.840] Well, you know, I figured I paid a lot of money and a lot of emotional stress and trauma for these lessons.
[00:13:36.840 --> 00:13:38.760] So I decided to put them to work.
[00:13:38.760 --> 00:13:43.000] And so we did buy another one and we got some land with it, which was nice.
[00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:45.000] And then, you know, I just started thinking about it.
[00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:50.520] And I was like, nobody should have to learn the lessons that I learned the way that I learned them.
[00:13:50.520 --> 00:13:55.320] So if I can just help anybody out to get into this business, because there are some gotchas.
[00:13:55.320 --> 00:13:56.920] It is a cash business.
[00:13:56.920 --> 00:14:01.320] There are ways that people can take advantage of you if you're new.
[00:14:01.320 --> 00:14:09.800] And so, you know, I wanted to kind of help get good information out there to really help because I really believe in this business and this business model.
[00:14:09.800 --> 00:14:15.360] And it can really propel you to financial freedom very quickly if you get in it right.
[00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:19.760] If you get in it wrong, it can take a really long time to dig yourself out.
[00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:24.000] And so I really want to help people get into it the correct way.
[00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:28.000] So that's kind of why I started Laundromat Resource and the podcast.
[00:14:28.160 --> 00:14:31.760] Do you have a horror story or two from that first purchase?
[00:14:31.760 --> 00:14:34.880] I'm just curious, like, what mistakes should people be looking for?
[00:14:34.880 --> 00:14:36.320] What mistakes should people avoid?
[00:14:36.320 --> 00:14:39.440] So, number one, I always say, never rely.
[00:14:39.440 --> 00:14:42.640] This seems obvious probably, but it wasn't to me.
[00:14:42.640 --> 00:14:47.920] But never rely on the person whose income depends on you buying anything, really.
[00:14:47.920 --> 00:14:51.920] But a laundromat, like a broker, he's not making money unless you buy that laundromat.
[00:14:51.920 --> 00:14:53.600] Don't rely solely on them.
[00:14:53.600 --> 00:14:58.000] Even if they're a great person, there is a conflict of interest there to a degree.
[00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:15.520] And so I always say, hey, have somebody else who's experienced in the industry whose income doesn't depend on you buying the laundromat, who can help you navigate the waters, who can help you look for red flags, help you figure out what questions you need to ask, what data you need to collect.
[00:15:15.520 --> 00:15:24.000] That was a huge one, huge lesson that I learned that I think is probably important in any business, but especially in a laundromat business.
[00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:29.440] Are you typically assuming the lease on the building, or is the building part of it?
[00:15:29.440 --> 00:15:32.240] I mean, most of them I'm thinking of like kind of in a strip mall.
[00:15:32.240 --> 00:15:34.240] So I assume that's a lease situation.
[00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:36.400] Obviously, you can go either way with that.
[00:15:36.400 --> 00:15:47.360] I do lease one and I own the property with one, but you're typically either assuming the lease or you are negotiating a new lease during the transfer process.
[00:15:47.320 --> 00:15:49.600] And, and you know, the lease is critical.
[00:15:49.600 --> 00:16:01.320] And that's another kind of big mistake to avoid: if you get a bad lease, either too short, too expensive, or bad terms, it's really difficult to move a laundromat.
[00:16:01.640 --> 00:16:12.600] So, if your lease runs out and the landlord decides they don't want to re-up you, or they want to really jack up the rents, you're in a lot of trouble because it's very difficult to move a laundromat.
[00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:15.880] So, you want a good, solid, long-term lease.
[00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:22.600] And so, if the current owner doesn't have that many years left, you know, you probably want to negotiate a new lease.
[00:16:22.600 --> 00:16:25.960] So, I found one, I'm on bizbuysell.com.
[00:16:25.960 --> 00:16:30.600] I found this wasn't super close to me, but this is kind of out in the Central Valley in series.
[00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:33.320] Asking price: $189,000.
[00:16:33.320 --> 00:16:35.160] EBITDA, what's that?
[00:16:35.160 --> 00:16:38.120] Earnings before interest taxes depreciation.
[00:16:38.120 --> 00:16:38.920] I don't know what it stands for.
[00:16:39.080 --> 00:16:41.000] Basically, the net operating income, but yeah.
[00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:46.120] Net operating income is estimated at 70,000, call it 77,000.
[00:16:46.120 --> 00:16:51.880] So, it's trading at a little under two and a half times that, at least the asking price.
[00:16:51.880 --> 00:16:54.520] It says the lease is assumable.
[00:16:54.600 --> 00:16:56.680] Doesn't say when the lease expires.
[00:16:56.680 --> 00:16:59.400] Oh, new lease to be negotiated by owner of real estate.
[00:16:59.400 --> 00:17:01.800] Okay, so that may be a potential red flag.
[00:17:02.200 --> 00:17:03.240] Looks pretty nice, though.
[00:17:03.240 --> 00:17:06.760] At least from the pictures, it looks like there's cars in the parking lot.
[00:17:06.760 --> 00:17:10.520] It doesn't look to be totally abandoned, like some of the strip malls nearby.
[00:17:10.520 --> 00:17:14.600] The flooring could do some work, but like the machines and stuff look like they're in decent shape.
[00:17:14.600 --> 00:17:30.440] Yeah, so on a deal like that, that new lease is really going to determine the actual NOI, you know, because most likely if that lease is coming up, that's a really old lease, and the lease price is probably significantly lower than market value.
[00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:44.440] So, that's going to eat into that NOI, which is probably why it's valued at around two and a half times the NOI, because the real NOI is probably going to be lower after the new lease is put in place.
[00:17:44.440 --> 00:17:45.840] That would be my guess.
[00:17:44.840 --> 00:17:46.080] Okay.
[00:17:46.320 --> 00:17:57.360] Is there such thing as laundromat financing or just a small business loan to try and cash flow this rather than waiting the three years to break even if you're buying it with cash?
[00:17:57.360 --> 00:17:58.320] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:17:58.320 --> 00:18:06.720] And I, I mean, I'm a big proponent of using financing to purchase a business and allowing the business to pay for itself.
[00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:14.720] And so there's, you can get SBA loans for laundromats, but only under very specific situations.
[00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:28.720] So what I always recommend is talk to a couple of laundromat-specific lenders, and they not only know the business and can let you know what you need to get in place to get a laundromat, but their interests are aligned with yours.
[00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:29.920] They want you to succeed.
[00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:31.840] They don't want you to buy a laundromat.
[00:18:31.840 --> 00:18:35.760] You know, that's not going to make money because they're less likely to get paid.
[00:18:35.760 --> 00:18:36.960] So they're on your side.
[00:18:36.960 --> 00:18:44.000] So you get to leverage their experience, their knowledge, and their money when you work with a laundromat-specific lender.
[00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:46.240] How do you recommend finding that person?
[00:18:47.120 --> 00:18:50.320] I have a couple that I work with that are great.
[00:18:50.320 --> 00:18:55.920] I mean, you can Google Laundromat Financing and find Laundromat lenders out there.
[00:18:55.920 --> 00:19:05.840] There's a couple of really big companies, Eastern Funding and Alliance Funding are both some of the big ones out there, but there's others too.
[00:19:05.840 --> 00:19:18.720] If you buy this thing with financing and it pencils out the way you expected it to, is there a projected cash flow that you're shooting for on a monthly basis?
[00:19:19.040 --> 00:19:22.480] Yeah, I mean, it really depends on your situation.
[00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:31.080] If you're using a lot of leverage, obviously your cash flow is going to be less, but your cash on cash return might be pretty high.
[00:19:31.080 --> 00:19:37.080] So, you know, for example, on this deal, you know, call it a $200,000 laundromat.
[00:19:37.080 --> 00:19:53.880] If you put, say, $30,000 in and you finance the rest, you could pretty easily, if the NOI was really $75,000 and after your loan, you know, you could net $25,000 or $30,000, which is 100%, you know, ROI.
[00:19:54.040 --> 00:19:55.080] Cash on cash.
[00:19:55.080 --> 00:19:55.720] Okay.
[00:19:55.720 --> 00:19:56.200] Yeah.
[00:19:56.520 --> 00:20:02.520] So it really depends on your situation because there are laundromats that sell for well over a million bucks.
[00:20:02.520 --> 00:20:09.160] And obviously your cash flow is going to be a lot higher for that laundromat than one that you buy for 50 grand.
[00:20:09.160 --> 00:20:09.560] Okay.
[00:20:09.560 --> 00:20:09.800] Yeah.
[00:20:09.800 --> 00:20:16.040] It makes me want to stop by some of these ones in town and see if they would be interested in selling.
[00:20:16.040 --> 00:20:16.600] I don't know.
[00:20:16.600 --> 00:20:21.720] Does that conversation come up or if people have kind of the systems in place?
[00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:28.360] And I will say on this listing in series, it says that the existing owner, reason for selling, retiring.
[00:20:28.360 --> 00:20:30.680] And so, I mean, is that the reason people would get out of it?
[00:20:30.680 --> 00:20:36.840] Like, hey, this is going to be my retirement nest egg rather than building up a portfolio of rental properties.
[00:20:36.840 --> 00:20:41.880] I'm just going to build equity in this business and then cash out on retirement.
[00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:48.280] Yeah, I mean, retirement is one of the big reasons people get out, which I think is probably a good sign for the industry.
[00:20:48.280 --> 00:20:59.960] You know, because once people are in, if you're spending five, maybe 10 hours, I mean, at that point, you're probably not spending 10, but five or 10 hours a week, you know, and you're cash flowing enough to sustain you.
[00:20:59.960 --> 00:21:01.640] That's pretty tough to give up.
[00:21:01.880 --> 00:21:04.200] So, retirement is one of the big reasons.
[00:21:04.200 --> 00:21:14.680] There are other reasons, also, but I always encourage people, if you're interested in buying a laundromat, start stopping in to laundromats and talking to owners and asking them if they're willing to sell.
[00:21:14.680 --> 00:21:21.840] I've definitely had deals come across my desk that way just from stopping in and talking to laundromat owners.
[00:21:21.840 --> 00:21:27.280] Also, a direct mail campaign, similar to real estate, you can find laundromats for sale that way, too.
[00:21:27.280 --> 00:21:30.240] There's a host of reasons people might want to get out.
[00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:33.680] And so, if you catch them at the right time, you could find yourself a good deal.
[00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:34.240] Okay, right.
[00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:35.440] Same thing with houses, right?
[00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:38.320] Like, if once you go on the MLS, it becomes a little more efficient.
[00:21:38.320 --> 00:21:43.280] But if you can find somebody pre-brokerage, maybe there's a deal to strike there.
[00:21:43.280 --> 00:21:49.840] It's interesting because it seems like it seems like to be a very fragmented industry.
[00:21:49.840 --> 00:21:55.040] And by that, I mean there's no dominant like regional or national player.
[00:21:55.040 --> 00:21:58.560] There's no like 1-800-got junk for the laundromat industry.
[00:21:58.560 --> 00:22:03.200] It's like they all seem to be, you know, maybe mom-and-pop-style businesses.
[00:22:03.200 --> 00:22:03.680] I don't know.
[00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:05.520] Do you find that to be true?
[00:22:05.520 --> 00:22:07.280] Yeah, I think that that's true.
[00:22:07.280 --> 00:22:10.320] And it'll be interesting to see if that remains to be true.
[00:22:10.320 --> 00:22:20.720] I think one of the big barriers to like a big brand or even like a franchise model has been, you know, just the logistics of running that many laundromats.
[00:22:20.720 --> 00:22:29.840] You know, so many laundromats have been coin operated and just the logistics of going to different locations and collecting coins every week.
[00:22:29.840 --> 00:22:32.720] And it's just made it very difficult.
[00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:42.480] But, you know, now there's a lot of technology where there's card payment systems where, you know, you're not really even dealing with coins at all in some of the newer laundromats.
[00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:44.800] And so it's much easier to manage.
[00:22:44.800 --> 00:22:50.240] I had a guy on my podcast, he lives in Italy and he owns a laundromat in Florida.
[00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:55.520] And, you know, so you can kind of manage them from anywhere in the world if you set them up right now.
[00:22:55.840 --> 00:22:59.640] Yeah, but it is a mom-and-pop industry by and large now.
[00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:05.400] And that makes it an inefficient market, which means you can find good deals in the market right now.
[00:23:05.720 --> 00:23:10.600] So if you catch somebody at the right time, in the right situation, you can get a good buy.
[00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:23.000] I'll be right back with Jordan, including more on this remote management possibility, some tax advantages to know about, and the actions Jordan took to turn around his first laundromat right after this.
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[00:25:37.840 --> 00:25:41.680] I am interested in this remote management aspect.
[00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:45.200] Talk to me about the day-to-day responsibilities.
[00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:48.880] You know, how much time are you spending on site at these places?
[00:25:49.040 --> 00:25:51.040] A room full of vending machines in a way.
[00:25:51.040 --> 00:25:53.120] Like, do you need somebody to be there?
[00:25:53.120 --> 00:25:57.920] Or is it just, it would be weird to unlock the doors and then just have a free-for-all?
[00:25:57.920 --> 00:26:00.080] Yeah, well, there's a couple of different business models.
[00:26:00.080 --> 00:26:06.000] And one is the doors unlock on their own in the morning, and it's kind of a free-for-all.
[00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:08.080] It's called an unintended laundromat.
[00:26:08.080 --> 00:26:14.320] And basically, you put automatic door locks on, and they open and close on their own.
[00:26:14.320 --> 00:26:21.920] And you do typically need somebody to come in at least once a day to clean up.
[00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:25.440] You know, laundromats tend to get pretty messy pretty fast.
[00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:27.600] A lot of people are coming in and out.
[00:26:27.600 --> 00:26:47.080] So you either have somebody come in for a couple hours to just wipe down the machines and sweep and mop and clean out the lint traps, take out the trash, or the other model is an attended model where you have somebody there all day who's keeping things clean all day and who's helping customers.
[00:26:47.080 --> 00:26:59.880] And maybe they have some other responsibilities also, like manning a store or if there's a service component of the business, like a drop-off laundry service or a pickup and delivery service, maybe they're doing something with that too.
[00:26:59.880 --> 00:27:03.400] Okay, so yeah, if you're hiring for that role, that obviously eats into your cash flow.
[00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:07.320] And so you have to find out as you're buying, is that already baked in?
[00:27:07.320 --> 00:27:08.840] Like, is that manager going to stay?
[00:27:08.840 --> 00:27:17.800] Like, trying to figure out, well, if the owner was doing that all themselves and the net was 75 grand, like that becomes a different equation if you weren't planning on buying yourself a job.
[00:27:17.800 --> 00:27:18.040] Right.
[00:27:18.040 --> 00:27:29.960] And I always tell people in that situation, I would just add in the expenses for an employee and base the value off of that number, not the number that they gave you where they were doing all the work.
[00:27:29.960 --> 00:27:30.840] Gotcha.
[00:27:30.840 --> 00:27:36.280] Yeah, it was in Japan, which probably isn't surprising, where it was the unattended model.
[00:27:36.280 --> 00:27:41.480] Yeah, it was just walk in, here's a bank of machines, and you just do it all yourself.
[00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:42.360] You don't talk to anybody.
[00:27:42.360 --> 00:27:44.920] And it's just very much very technological.
[00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:46.040] We felt.
[00:27:46.040 --> 00:27:49.800] Okay, so there's some management, especially in the coins.
[00:27:49.800 --> 00:27:53.960] Like you got to deal with collecting the coins, taking them to the bank, making sure you have change.
[00:27:53.960 --> 00:27:55.640] Sorry, I want to go back to the financing thing.
[00:27:55.640 --> 00:28:02.200] Like anything else you've seen work on the creative financing side to fund this purchase?
[00:28:02.200 --> 00:28:08.920] Yeah, I mean, one of the huge benefits of laundromats, I think, and I myself, I have laundromats, but I also have real estate.
[00:28:08.920 --> 00:28:10.920] I love real estate investing.
[00:28:10.920 --> 00:28:16.080] But, you know, the average cash flow for laundromat is greater than real estate.
[00:28:16.080 --> 00:28:25.600] But also, the coveted seller financing deal that everybody seems to be looking for in real estate is pretty common actually in laundromats.
[00:28:25.600 --> 00:28:49.040] And the reason for that is because they can be a little more difficult to fund, especially if the owner hasn't kept great records and has mismatching profit and loss sheets and taxes, or just can't demonstrate the income, then they typically have to fund at least some of the purchase price.
[00:28:49.040 --> 00:28:53.840] So, seller financing is a big financing source in laundromats.
[00:28:53.840 --> 00:29:06.640] And also, speaking of real estate, a lot of times real estate investors' ears perk up when I tell them I have laundromats and kind of talk to them about: hey, you know, a 20% return laundromat is a base hit.
[00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:12.320] You know, if you want a home run, you can, anything over 50% is a home run in my book.
[00:29:12.320 --> 00:29:13.600] And their ears perk up.
[00:29:13.600 --> 00:29:27.280] And so, finding money partners, if you can bring the knowledge and the time investment, finding the financial investment is easier, I think, than even finding one for real estate purchases.
[00:29:27.280 --> 00:29:33.280] And what's kind of cool is that you have the ability to evaluate the current state of the business.
[00:29:33.280 --> 00:29:41.120] And maybe it is this guy who's nearing retirement and they haven't optimized it to the full extent that they could.
[00:29:41.120 --> 00:29:47.600] So I think you have this physical space where people are hanging out for an hour or two hours doing their laundry.
[00:29:47.600 --> 00:29:50.160] Like there's other things you can put in there.
[00:29:50.160 --> 00:29:56.080] Like I've seen some with, you know, they had the ATMs and they got vending machines and there's all sorts of stuff.
[00:29:56.080 --> 00:30:03.720] Can you speak a little bit to anything that you've done or you've seen other people do to increase the cash flow from an existing business?
[00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:17.240] This is what really drove me to reach out to you and say, hey, you've got to talk about this on your podcast because not only is a laundromat a great side hustle, but it's kind of the ultimate side hustle because it has side hustles within the side hustle.
[00:30:17.240 --> 00:30:19.080] That's side hustle inception.
[00:30:19.080 --> 00:30:20.120] Yeah, exactly.
[00:30:20.120 --> 00:30:21.560] Side hustle inception.
[00:30:21.560 --> 00:30:22.920] That's, I like that.
[00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:28.280] Because there are a ton of different revenue sources you can integrate within your laundromat.
[00:30:28.280 --> 00:30:32.840] And obviously, you know, your washers and dryers are going to be your main source of income.
[00:30:32.840 --> 00:30:50.200] But like you mentioned, ATM machines, video games, gumball machines, toy machines, claw machines, massage chairs, water stations, adding services like a wash-dry fold service or a pickup and delivery service.
[00:30:50.200 --> 00:30:52.360] There's just a host of things.
[00:30:52.360 --> 00:31:00.440] In fact, on my website, I have like a bunch of a list of a bunch of different value add opportunities for a laundromat.
[00:31:00.440 --> 00:31:11.640] Yeah, the cool thing here is like, yeah, if you can add 500 bucks, $1,000 a month in cash flow, you just added, I don't even know, $40,000 in equity to the business.
[00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:12.040] Yeah.
[00:31:12.040 --> 00:31:19.240] So every dollar of net income you add to your business is going to add three and a half to five dollars of equity.
[00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:21.720] And that's how wealth is built, right?
[00:31:21.720 --> 00:31:23.080] You got to have good cash flow.
[00:31:23.080 --> 00:31:27.160] You got to build up your equity and you got to maximize your tax advantages.
[00:31:27.160 --> 00:31:30.040] If you can do those three things, I called that the wealth tripod.
[00:31:30.040 --> 00:31:35.160] If you can do those three things, then you can build wealth very quickly that way.
[00:31:35.160 --> 00:31:35.480] All right.
[00:31:35.480 --> 00:31:36.840] Well, talk to me about the tax front.
[00:31:36.840 --> 00:31:38.520] That's something we haven't touched on yet.
[00:31:38.520 --> 00:31:38.840] Yeah.
[00:31:38.840 --> 00:31:48.640] And, you know, obvious caveat: I'm not a, you know, a tax advisor or a CPA or anything, but you get typical business perks for having a laundromat.
[00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:54.160] So you can pay your expenses before you claim it as income when you own a business.
[00:31:54.480 --> 00:32:00.480] Instead of when we have a job, we get paid and then we pay our taxes and then we pay our expenses.
[00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:06.960] And when you have a business, you get paid, you pay your expenses, and then you pay your taxes on what's left over.
[00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:10.080] So that's a huge perk in and of itself.
[00:32:10.080 --> 00:32:15.280] But also, you have all this equipment, and this equipment can be depreciated.
[00:32:15.280 --> 00:32:31.600] You know, the rules vary depending on what's going on with tax laws at the moment, but depreciating the equipment basically means the equipment loses value in the IRS's eyes, and you get to deduct that off of your income.
[00:32:31.600 --> 00:32:36.000] So it's as if you didn't get that income, but you still get to keep that income.
[00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:41.600] Okay, with the idea being that eventually it's going to have to be replaced.
[00:32:41.600 --> 00:32:44.560] Well, then you can write that off as a capital expense.
[00:32:44.560 --> 00:32:44.960] Right.
[00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:45.600] Yeah.
[00:32:45.600 --> 00:32:48.000] So there's, I mean, it is similar to real estate.
[00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:50.400] Real estate works in a similar way.
[00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:58.480] But having a business that's based off a physical asset like that allows you to take advantage of that tax perk.
[00:32:58.480 --> 00:32:58.720] Okay.
[00:32:58.720 --> 00:33:04.240] So if you, if you buy a machine for, I have no idea what these things cost, $3,000, let's say.
[00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:10.320] So you can either write that off all at once in the year of purchase if you have the income to do that, yes?
[00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:14.160] Or you can take this depreciation over time.
[00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:16.080] Am I understanding that right?
[00:33:16.080 --> 00:33:16.480] Right.
[00:33:16.480 --> 00:33:17.680] Yeah, exactly.
[00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:18.240] Okay.
[00:33:18.240 --> 00:33:20.640] Is there an advantage to doing one or the other?
[00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:24.080] There are advantages, and I think it depends on your financial situation.
[00:33:24.080 --> 00:33:36.840] Some years, like if you know, for example, down the line you're going to have a big windfall, and you know, this year, for example, you know, your income is going to be a modest income, but next year you're going to get a lot more money.
[00:33:37.080 --> 00:33:45.560] You may want to try to defer some of those write-offs to when you're going to have more income so you can depreciate it against that income.
[00:33:45.880 --> 00:33:50.760] So, I mean, I would recommend talking to a CPA because it can get real complicated real fast.
[00:33:50.760 --> 00:33:56.760] But, you know, the general idea is there are tax benefits also to own in laundromats.
[00:33:56.760 --> 00:33:57.080] Okay.
[00:33:57.080 --> 00:33:59.320] So, you've got the equipment depreciation.
[00:33:59.320 --> 00:34:05.640] If you've got a lease, you're not paying any mortgage interest, but you are able to deduct your lease payment.
[00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:08.760] Any other interesting deductions here?
[00:34:08.760 --> 00:34:10.040] I think those are the big ones.
[00:34:10.040 --> 00:34:18.760] If you buy it with the real estate, for example, my second one that I bought with the real estate, you get to take depreciation on that real estate also.
[00:34:18.760 --> 00:34:25.960] And commercial real estate has some really great accelerated deductions that you can take too.
[00:34:26.120 --> 00:34:29.160] Again, talk to your CPA about it, but that's another perk.
[00:34:29.160 --> 00:34:38.600] And right now, there's actually an awesome SBA 504 loan that's allowing you to purchase real estate.
[00:34:38.600 --> 00:34:41.400] I think it's with 10% down right now.
[00:34:41.400 --> 00:34:49.160] And so, when you're picking up a business like a laundromat, and if you can get the real estate also, you can get that real estate with very little money down.
[00:34:49.160 --> 00:34:58.120] And so, using your business to acquire the real estate and to pay down the real estate, again, is a huge way to accelerate your wealth building.
[00:34:58.120 --> 00:35:06.760] Jordan, tell me about some of the actions that you took to turn around this first purchase that you didn't want, you don't want other people to be in the same boat.
[00:35:06.760 --> 00:35:12.040] Like, what did it take to take this from like, I think we made a horrible mistake to like, okay, this is tolerable?
[00:35:12.040 --> 00:35:14.120] Yeah, I mean, I think that's a great question.
[00:35:14.280 --> 00:35:17.280] It took me a really long time to kind of figure it out.
[00:35:17.280 --> 00:35:25.440] But one of the things I realized eventually is I'm in a situation where obviously I didn't expect to be in that situation.
[00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:29.920] I expected to be in a situation where I was making money and I was actually losing money.
[00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:32.880] And that felt like a punch in the gut.
[00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:43.920] And kind of my options at that point were either to just sell it and get out, cut my losses and get out, or to double down and put more effort into it.
[00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:52.800] Even though I was getting into it, hoping for it to be more passive, it actually ended up having to ramp up my involvement in it.
[00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:58.880] And so some of the things that I did was one, I put in new equipment, and that's a big deal.
[00:35:58.880 --> 00:36:07.200] You know, when people come to your laundromat and it's like playing the slot machines, when you put your quarters in, is the machine going to work or is it not going to work?
[00:36:07.200 --> 00:36:10.080] You lose customers really fast that way.
[00:36:10.400 --> 00:36:17.360] And having new machines not only helps you retain those customers, it attracts new customers.
[00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:18.960] Your utility bills go down.
[00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:22.560] So your expenses go down because they're more efficient machines.
[00:36:22.560 --> 00:36:30.320] You can charge higher vend prices because, you know, they're new machines and customers will pay a premium for that.
[00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:32.800] And so that was one big thing.
[00:36:32.800 --> 00:36:37.920] Another thing was, I think I had a little bit of the field of dreams mentality.
[00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:45.040] If you build it, they will come and put in new machines and everything and kind of expected people to just walk through the door.
[00:36:45.040 --> 00:36:47.440] And some did, but not enough.
[00:36:47.440 --> 00:36:52.960] And so I ended up having to figure out creative ways to get people in the door.
[00:36:52.960 --> 00:37:11.400] So whether that was through, you know, digital advertising on Google and on Facebook, putting up banners and stickers in the windows, running promotions, and also just getting to know customers and getting to know the community a little bit, which actually is the best part of owning a laundromat, by the way.
[00:37:11.400 --> 00:37:13.000] What else worked on the marketing front?
[00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:14.680] This is interesting to say, okay.
[00:37:15.720 --> 00:37:19.880] You're clearly getting your laundry done somewhere else today.
[00:37:19.880 --> 00:37:23.240] I want to conquest that market share and have you come over to see me instead.
[00:37:23.240 --> 00:37:24.520] That's one of the big tricks.
[00:37:24.520 --> 00:37:34.120] If you're buying a laundromat, hoping to, you know, fix it up and improve business is you're really in the business of changing people's habits, right?
[00:37:34.120 --> 00:37:47.160] Because people have a habit of doing their laundry some other way, whether it's in their apartment complex, at a different laundromat, at their home, wherever they're doing it, they have a habit of doing it somewhere else.
[00:37:47.160 --> 00:37:56.600] And I really have kind of developed a marketing strategy that's working really well for my consulting clients right now.
[00:37:56.600 --> 00:38:03.000] And the premise of it is that it takes three visits for a customer to come to your laundromat.
[00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:09.720] And after they've come three times, they're basically, statistically speaking, they're basically your customer at that point.
[00:38:10.040 --> 00:38:21.880] So I tell people when you open a new laundromat or you retool your store, put in new equipment and stuff, you know, step one is do something dramatic to get people in the door the first time.
[00:38:22.200 --> 00:38:25.320] And so whether that's, hey, give free washes.
[00:38:25.320 --> 00:38:33.400] There's a guy here in Southern California when he opens a new store, he does free washes for a month, which costs him a lot of money.
[00:38:33.400 --> 00:38:38.040] But as you can imagine, a lot of people are coming to his laundromat that month.
[00:38:38.040 --> 00:38:41.160] And he can easily rack up three visits in a month.
[00:38:41.160 --> 00:38:42.920] And now those are his customers.
[00:38:42.920 --> 00:38:44.800] He's built a lot of goodwill.
[00:38:44.360 --> 00:38:47.520] But do something dramatic, step one, to get customers in.
[00:38:47.600 --> 00:38:56.800] So whether that's free washes, another popular strategy is like if you have a card store, a card system payment system, you can do like double your money.
[00:38:56.800 --> 00:39:00.080] So put 20 bucks on, we'll add 20 bucks ourselves.
[00:39:00.080 --> 00:39:03.360] Whatever you do, do something dramatic to get people in.
[00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:11.040] Step two is once they come in that first time, your only goal is to get them to come back the second time.
[00:39:11.360 --> 00:39:17.200] And so whatever promotion or marketing thing you do to get them back the second time, do that.
[00:39:17.200 --> 00:39:20.720] And then your goal the second time is to get them to come back the third time.
[00:39:20.720 --> 00:39:23.920] And after you've done that, then they've become your customer.
[00:39:23.920 --> 00:39:27.920] And you just have to keep your value proposition high at that point.
[00:39:27.920 --> 00:39:33.840] Keep your store clean, keep the machines working, and keep smiles on your staff's face.
[00:39:33.840 --> 00:39:36.000] And you got lifelong customers.
[00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:40.880] Yeah, I really like that element of this where, yeah, people, it's like lawn mowing.
[00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:42.320] Well, the grass is going to keep growing.
[00:39:42.320 --> 00:39:44.640] You know, you're going to keep needing this service over and over again.
[00:39:44.640 --> 00:39:46.560] The clothes are going to keep getting dirty.
[00:39:46.560 --> 00:39:48.560] So I do like that aspect of it.
[00:39:48.560 --> 00:39:50.320] I like that it's self-service.
[00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:54.240] Like we joke about this every time we go up to Brentwood for the you pick cherries.
[00:39:54.240 --> 00:39:56.640] It's like we're paying for the cherries and we're doing the labor.
[00:39:56.640 --> 00:39:58.720] Like this is a genius business model.
[00:39:58.720 --> 00:40:01.040] And you say, you know, smiles on your staff's faces.
[00:40:01.040 --> 00:40:09.440] Like, is it typically just, you know, that operator, cleaner, assistant, helper person who is there during the day, like during the hours?
[00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:12.880] Or is there multiple people like kind of on staff at any given time?
[00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:20.080] Yeah, well, I would say for probably for most laundromats, there's usually one person there at a time, if anybody.
[00:40:20.080 --> 00:40:24.320] But some of the bigger stores have multiple employees working there.
[00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:35.560] And especially if they have a big drop-off laundry service or pickup and delivery, you know, I have friends who have 40-plus employees with their laundromats and their services.
[00:40:36.120 --> 00:40:37.640] Jordan, what's next for you?
[00:40:37.640 --> 00:40:41.880] Are you on the hunt for more of these you want to add to your empire?
[00:40:41.880 --> 00:40:44.280] Or what's the future hold?
[00:40:44.280 --> 00:40:47.720] Yeah, I have kind of two fronts I'm working on here.
[00:40:47.960 --> 00:40:51.480] In terms of laundromats, I am on the hunt.
[00:40:51.480 --> 00:41:05.240] In fact, I just brought together, you know, one of the cool things about having a podcast, and maybe you've experienced this too, is you meet some people who are just incredible at particularly people who are incredible at things that I'm not incredible at.
[00:41:05.240 --> 00:41:13.800] And so I've put together a little team and we're actually putting together an investment group to go out and buy laundromats and real estate.
[00:41:13.800 --> 00:41:17.080] You know, we just believe in this business so much and we know it.
[00:41:17.080 --> 00:41:26.680] We've done the hard work and we've learned the expensive lessons and we're going out and we all have some of our own, but we're all going to go get some more.
[00:41:26.680 --> 00:41:33.160] So buy in more and larger laundromats and some commercial real estate on that front.
[00:41:33.480 --> 00:41:56.760] And then on the laundromat resource front, you know, just providing more and more opportunities, not just for people to learn about the industry and to be able to get into it the right way, but also, you know, more and more opportunities for people who know this business to be able to share what they know and share their wealth of knowledge.
[00:41:56.760 --> 00:41:59.720] And so trying to be a platform where people can do that.
[00:41:59.720 --> 00:42:04.840] Were there other laundromat podcasts when you started or were you trailblazing there?
[00:42:04.840 --> 00:42:14.360] There was one other, a man named Ken Barrett, who's a great advocate for the industry, has had a, I think it was the Laundromat How-To podcast.
[00:42:14.360 --> 00:42:16.720] He's since stopped that one.
[00:42:16.720 --> 00:42:23.280] There's been a couple more that have popped up since, I think, with just the success of my podcast.
[00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:25.600] Surprising success, honestly.
[00:42:25.600 --> 00:42:26.880] No, why do you say that?
[00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:28.880] Well, I mean, it's a laundromat podcast.
[00:42:29.200 --> 00:42:29.920] I don't know.
[00:42:29.920 --> 00:42:31.840] Like, people are interested in it.
[00:42:31.840 --> 00:42:51.360] And my podcast is interesting compared to the other ones that are out there mostly because I do long form interviews with owners and I ask them questions about their business and about their experience and try to pull out their lessons they've learned and their wisdom and get advice from them for the listeners.
[00:42:51.360 --> 00:42:56.720] And I think people are just really responding to hearing people's stories and learning from them.
[00:42:56.720 --> 00:43:01.280] But, you know, it is a laundromat podcast, so it's just kind of surprising how many people listen to it.
[00:43:01.280 --> 00:43:02.560] That's awesome, man.
[00:43:02.560 --> 00:43:05.440] Well, there you have it, the laundromatresource.com.
[00:43:05.440 --> 00:43:08.320] Check Jordan out at the Laundromat Resource podcast.
[00:43:08.320 --> 00:43:10.160] Like you said, it's a Laundromat podcast.
[00:43:10.160 --> 00:43:12.000] It delivers what it promises.
[00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:18.800] And you got me interested in this business as an investment for the passive cash flow, for the ROI.
[00:43:18.800 --> 00:43:29.440] Definitely an interesting one as a way to put either some existing assets to work, put some sweat equity to work, and see what else is out there for that.
[00:43:29.440 --> 00:43:31.280] So Jordan, thanks again for joining me.
[00:43:31.280 --> 00:43:35.120] Let's wrap this thing up with your number one tip for Side Hustle Nation.
[00:43:35.120 --> 00:43:38.880] This does not have to be laundromat related, but it can be.
[00:43:38.880 --> 00:43:42.000] Just whatever entrepreneurial wisdom you'd like to impart.
[00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:53.360] Yeah, I think one of the big lessons I learned was when you work with the best people and whatever it is that you're doing, when you work with the best people, you end up becoming one of the best people.
[00:43:53.360 --> 00:43:54.800] Work with the best, become the best.
[00:43:54.800 --> 00:44:03.160] And that's on, you know, both people who are, you know, maybe like for a laundromat, for example, brokers or distributors helping you buy equipment.
[00:43:59.840 --> 00:44:06.280] When you work with the best, they're going to help you become the best.
[00:44:06.600 --> 00:44:16.200] And also, you know, on the employee front, when you hire the best people, they're going to help you propel your business forward and become the best.
[00:44:16.200 --> 00:44:18.680] So work with the best, become the best.
[00:44:18.680 --> 00:44:19.240] I like it.
[00:44:19.240 --> 00:44:19.880] That's a new one.
[00:44:19.880 --> 00:44:21.240] So thank you for sharing that.
[00:44:21.240 --> 00:44:24.840] Jordan, again, thanks for joining us, and we'll catch up with you soon.
[00:44:24.920 --> 00:44:26.280] Appreciate it, Nick.
[00:44:30.040 --> 00:44:40.840] Definitely an interesting option to take a look at from an investment perspective, a cash flow perspective, a potential way to buy yourself an income stream that replaces your day job.
[00:44:40.840 --> 00:44:48.120] But like Jordan said, do your diligence, do your homework, look for inefficiencies, look for opportunities to improve operations.
[00:44:48.120 --> 00:44:53.720] And I think the same strategies apply to buying an online business as to buying an offline one.
[00:44:53.720 --> 00:45:03.960] One of the most popular episodes of the show is my chat with Stacey Caprio on buying up small-ish online businesses eventually enough to replace her salary.
[00:45:03.960 --> 00:45:05.480] But it's not without risk.
[00:45:05.480 --> 00:45:10.360] In fact, I think her first couple purchases didn't turn out that well, if I'm remembering correctly.
[00:45:10.360 --> 00:45:14.440] But I mean, you're not going to find 20 to 30% ROIs anywhere without risk.
[00:45:14.440 --> 00:45:17.160] In any case, that was episode 323.
[00:45:17.160 --> 00:45:25.640] If you want to go back into the archives and check that one out, notes and links for this episode are at sidehustlenation.com/slash laundry.
[00:45:25.640 --> 00:45:28.840] And before we go, would you like more money-making ideas?
[00:45:28.840 --> 00:45:31.080] That's what my weekly newsletter is all about.
[00:45:31.080 --> 00:45:35.880] 75,000 people are already getting it, and I would love to send it to you as well.
[00:45:35.880 --> 00:45:43.960] You can join for free at sidehustlenation.com/slash join or through the link in the episode description of your podcast player app.
[00:45:43.960 --> 00:45:53.360] You'll also get access to hundreds of members-only goodies and bonus files that I've created over the years, including any future ones that I end up building for upcoming episodes.
[00:45:53.360 --> 00:45:57.200] Once again, that's at sidehustlenation.com slash join.
[00:45:57.200 --> 00:46:06.400] We're about to jump in the time machine and get a real-time look at where Jordan's business is today, what ended up happening with that investment pool, and the current state of the laundromat industry.
[00:46:06.400 --> 00:46:09.520] But first, let's take a quick break to thank our sponsors.
[00:46:09.520 --> 00:46:21.120] Years ago, this is probably 2009, I'm sitting in this conference in Santa Barbara, and the presenter asks this question: Are you working on your business or are you working in your business?
[00:46:21.120 --> 00:46:28.960] I saw myself as this full-time entrepreneur, but it was this moment of clarity that, no, I was still very much working in the business day to day.
[00:46:28.960 --> 00:46:32.240] So, when I got back home, that's when I made my first full-time hire.
[00:46:32.240 --> 00:46:42.320] It was the first in a long series, in an ongoing series of steps in trying to take control by being okay of letting go of certain tasks.
[00:46:42.320 --> 00:46:49.120] Now, when you find yourself in that position of needing to hire like yesterday, you need our sponsor, Indeed.
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[00:46:58.240 --> 00:47:01.200] That's why for my next hire, I'm using Indeed.
[00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:10.400] Side Hustle Show listeners get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com/slash sidehustle show.
[00:47:10.400 --> 00:47:18.160] Just go to indeed.com/slash sidehustle show right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast.
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[00:47:21.040 --> 00:47:22.640] Terms and conditions apply.
[00:47:22.640 --> 00:47:25.280] Hiring, indeed, is all you need.
[00:47:25.280 --> 00:47:36.200] You know, when you're shopping online and you see that little purple shop pay button at checkout, that's a sign that the store you're on is one of the millions of businesses powered by our partner, Shopify.
[00:47:36.520 --> 00:47:40.120] Shopify makes it incredibly easy to start and run your business.
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[00:48:06.360 --> 00:48:11.240] If you want to see less carts being abandoned, it's time to head over to Shopify.
[00:48:11.240 --> 00:48:17.800] Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com/slash sidehustle.
[00:48:17.800 --> 00:48:21.160] Go to shopify.com/slash sidehustle.
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[00:48:29.400 --> 00:48:31.160] All right, we just got out of the time machine.
[00:48:31.160 --> 00:48:33.080] It is mid-2025.
[00:48:33.080 --> 00:48:37.080] It is four and a half years since we last caught up with Jordan.
[00:48:37.080 --> 00:48:38.760] So, give me the rundown.
[00:48:38.760 --> 00:48:42.120] What's the current state of your laundromat empire here?
[00:48:42.120 --> 00:48:47.480] Oh, so between partnerships and my own kind of laundromats, I'm at five right now.
[00:48:47.480 --> 00:48:47.960] Okay.
[00:48:48.280 --> 00:48:50.840] But more coming down the pipeline for sure.
[00:48:50.840 --> 00:48:54.760] We've got a couple more that are probably going to close here within the next few months.
[00:48:54.760 --> 00:48:55.000] Yeah.
[00:48:55.000 --> 00:49:14.440] So you ended up starting what you called kind of an investor pool, like almost like a syndication, it sounds like, where we're going to go out and try and find bigger, better laundromats and put an operator in place and try and do it more passively than showing up and collecting corridors yourself.
[00:49:14.440 --> 00:49:24.960] The biggest hurdle for that was actually finding deals and finding enough capacity, enough deals in order to put that money to work.
[00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:30.640] Because of the podcast, because of your reputation in the industry, the raising money problem wasn't an issue.
[00:49:30.640 --> 00:49:33.920] It was like the deal flow or the inventory.
[00:49:34.240 --> 00:49:35.440] Yeah, the deal flow.
[00:49:35.440 --> 00:49:40.720] And so, you know, we tried a whole bunch of different things, including, you know, trying to buy larger portfolios.
[00:49:40.720 --> 00:49:47.120] There just aren't that many of them and they don't come up for sale that often, which is a good and a bad thing, right?
[00:49:47.120 --> 00:49:53.840] It's a bad thing because it's hard to find those portfolio deals to deploy that larger amount of capital all at once.
[00:49:53.840 --> 00:50:02.880] But the good news of it is it's like a witness to how good the business can be and how you can run a larger portfolio relatively passively.
[00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:06.560] So ran into a lot of obstacles and ended up shifting gears on that.
[00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:13.680] However, since we last talked, a lot more has kind of happened in the industry that is making it more possible.
[00:50:13.680 --> 00:50:23.600] So actually that dream is being revived because there's some new tools and resources available now that weren't available even just four years ago to help us be able to do that.
[00:50:23.600 --> 00:50:31.280] Not only acquire those laundromats, but also or build, but also to manage those laundromats much more effectively.
[00:50:31.280 --> 00:50:33.520] It's become a kind of a buzzworthy thing.
[00:50:33.520 --> 00:50:37.920] Laundromats, storage facilities, car washes, people trying to get in this space.
[00:50:37.920 --> 00:50:42.320] Has that made it more difficult to shop for, to find deals?
[00:50:43.840 --> 00:50:44.720] There's more competition.
[00:50:44.720 --> 00:50:51.120] There's more buyers out there than there were, thanks in part to your content, to the Cody Sanchez of the world.
[00:50:51.160 --> 00:50:54.240] There's it's become a thing.
[00:50:54.560 --> 00:50:55.200] Oh, yeah.
[00:50:55.200 --> 00:50:55.520] Yeah, yeah.
[00:50:55.680 --> 00:50:59.040] And not just, not just for me or my investment group or anything like that.
[00:50:59.040 --> 00:51:03.560] I mean, just like a lot of my consulting clients are just, they're having problems.
[00:50:59.680 --> 00:51:06.600] There's a lot more buyer demand than there are sellers right now.
[00:50:59.840 --> 00:51:06.760] Yeah.
[00:51:07.000 --> 00:51:09.240] Again, which is sort of a good thing and a bad thing, right?
[00:51:09.240 --> 00:51:13.320] It just shows how strong the industry is and how strong the business is.
[00:51:13.320 --> 00:51:16.120] But when you're trying to buy them, it's tough.
[00:51:16.120 --> 00:51:20.120] Is there a certain multiple where you're like, this doesn't make sense?
[00:51:20.120 --> 00:51:21.640] Like, I've been on the other side of it.
[00:51:21.640 --> 00:51:24.840] I know there's going to be some problems and headaches and challenges.
[00:51:25.320 --> 00:51:30.520] And it's like, at a certain point, I got to go find something else to invest in.
[00:51:30.520 --> 00:51:32.600] We've definitely seen the multiples creep up.
[00:51:32.600 --> 00:51:38.440] I think we talked maybe three to five times the net for the multiple in terms of valuation.
[00:51:38.440 --> 00:51:42.200] Now we're looking at four and a half to five and a half in most markets.
[00:51:42.200 --> 00:51:48.200] And in the larger markets, you're starting at five, even for the kind of rundown laundromats.
[00:51:48.200 --> 00:51:49.800] And is there a multiple?
[00:51:49.800 --> 00:51:52.840] I mean, it really depends on your goals of what you're trying to do.
[00:51:53.000 --> 00:52:00.360] And you couple that with higher interest rates and all of a sudden that higher operating costs, utility costs have gone up, labor's gone up.
[00:52:00.360 --> 00:52:02.280] I mean, everything's kind of gone up.
[00:52:02.280 --> 00:52:03.320] Rents have gone up.
[00:52:03.640 --> 00:52:04.600] Is it still pencil?
[00:52:04.600 --> 00:52:07.320] Like, are you still excited about it as a potential side hustle?
[00:52:07.320 --> 00:52:10.920] Or is it like, I don't know, maybe that ship has sailed?
[00:52:11.240 --> 00:52:12.440] It's still pencils.
[00:52:12.440 --> 00:52:14.040] There's just so much margin in there.
[00:52:14.040 --> 00:52:19.960] And even still, at a 5x multiple, all cash, you're still getting a 20% return on your investment.
[00:52:19.960 --> 00:52:23.880] And then obviously, if you throw leverage on it, that number can go up from there.
[00:52:23.880 --> 00:52:29.000] So even at a higher valuation, you're still doing pretty well.
[00:52:29.000 --> 00:52:31.400] And that's assuming no growth of the business, et cetera.
[00:52:31.400 --> 00:52:33.480] So it definitely is still pencils.
[00:52:33.480 --> 00:52:38.360] The major hurdle right now is actually persevering long enough to actually find that deal.
[00:52:38.360 --> 00:52:43.880] Any strategies that you're that you're working or you're comfortable sharing on the shopping side or deal sourcing side?
[00:52:43.880 --> 00:52:48.960] We talked about some of the biz buy sell type of brokerages or types of marketplaces.
[00:52:44.840 --> 00:52:52.000] We talked about knocking on doors, driving for dollars.
[00:52:52.160 --> 00:52:54.400] We talked about some direct mail strategies.
[00:52:54.400 --> 00:52:58.880] Anything else you see in work for yourself or your coaching clients?
[00:52:58.880 --> 00:53:01.360] All those things are still important to do.
[00:53:01.360 --> 00:53:05.040] Looking for those brokers, doing direct mail, doing some door knocking.
[00:53:05.040 --> 00:53:23.920] You got to get a little more creative, maybe checking Facebook Marketplace, Craigslist type stuff, working with distributors who sell equipment, maybe checking with maintenance technicians who service laundromats because they're the ones we're going to know when the owners are frustrated and ready to sell first.
[00:53:23.920 --> 00:53:24.800] Okay, okay.
[00:53:24.800 --> 00:53:25.360] Right.
[00:53:25.360 --> 00:53:27.520] And then work all the different angles.
[00:53:27.520 --> 00:53:27.920] Yeah.
[00:53:27.920 --> 00:53:28.160] Yeah.
[00:53:28.160 --> 00:53:32.400] The main strategy here is increased volume.
[00:53:32.400 --> 00:53:35.360] Like of in as much as you, I mean, I get it.
[00:53:35.360 --> 00:53:42.240] Like we, most of us have like jobs and we have lives and we have families and friends and things to do.
[00:53:42.240 --> 00:53:57.120] But as much volume of direct mail, of cold calling, of talking to broker, like as much volume as you can do, that's going to give you a higher success rate or chances of success in a timely fashion.
[00:53:57.120 --> 00:54:02.960] One big shift, it looks like, I mean, you're joining me from Hawaii instead of SoCal where the laundromats are.
[00:54:02.960 --> 00:54:06.240] So that seems like a big, a big shift in remote management.
[00:54:06.240 --> 00:54:06.720] Yeah.
[00:54:06.720 --> 00:54:06.960] Yeah.
[00:54:06.960 --> 00:54:07.120] Yeah.
[00:54:07.520 --> 00:54:13.680] If you listen to the first one, like the original goal was to get a house on the beach in Hawaii or a condo on the beach in Hawaii.
[00:54:13.680 --> 00:54:14.480] And we ended up with a laundry mat.
[00:54:14.640 --> 00:54:16.960] Took a little detour, a little side path, yeah, to get there.
[00:54:17.040 --> 00:54:17.520] That's right.
[00:54:17.760 --> 00:54:22.960] Here we are a decade later, and uh, finally, you know, across the street from the beach over here, which is pretty sweet.
[00:54:22.960 --> 00:54:30.040] I maybe have even talked about how, like, for decades, this industry has not changed, has not developed technologically.
[00:54:30.040 --> 00:54:31.480] We're behind the times.
[00:54:29.760 --> 00:54:34.680] However, in the last four years, we've made some pretty big strides.
[00:54:34.840 --> 00:54:48.680] I wouldn't say that we're on the cutting edge or anything yet, but made some pretty big strides in terms of technology, payment systems, operating software, management opportunities to be able to manage remotely.
[00:54:48.680 --> 00:54:51.480] That has been a game changer.
[00:54:51.480 --> 00:55:05.560] And I would say probably that in combination of an elevated presence in social media has been the main thing that has brought kind of more savvy, more sophisticated entrepreneurs and investors.
[00:55:05.560 --> 00:55:10.360] And we're even starting to see some private equity money trying to creep into the space now.
[00:55:10.520 --> 00:55:29.400] I think in large part is because the awareness has been elevated, but right at the time when the ability to manage remotely, to be able to manage a larger portfolio, to be able to get the data that you need to be able to make good business decisions is now, it's here finally.
[00:55:29.400 --> 00:55:30.520] It's in the palm of our hand.
[00:55:30.520 --> 00:55:31.720] So we can utilize that now.
[00:55:31.720 --> 00:55:44.200] Yeah, in terms of so one driver would be like a cashless payment system so you can kind of manage or you get a sense of performance remotely without having to log in.
[00:55:44.200 --> 00:55:47.240] And we've heard about this in like vending machines, for example.
[00:55:47.400 --> 00:55:52.680] I don't have to go by the machine to see what's out of stock because it tells me on the app what's going to be needed.
[00:55:52.680 --> 00:55:58.280] And imagine you can do similar things here without having to be on site all the time.
[00:55:58.280 --> 00:56:02.360] It sounds like maybe the building itself can be mostly unattended.
[00:56:02.360 --> 00:56:11.160] You know, somebody come in and clean it up, take care of it once a day, check on things, but not on site 24-7.
[00:56:11.480 --> 00:56:11.880] Yeah.
[00:56:11.880 --> 00:56:19.440] Well, and what's interesting too is over the last, I'd say, four years, maybe this is already happening four years ago, but we've seen it kind of accelerate.
[00:56:19.520 --> 00:56:32.720] Is there's this sort of bifurcation in the industry happening where you've got a lot more tools to remote manage and automate a lot of things, like you said, and you have less of a need for somebody to be there.
[00:56:32.720 --> 00:56:42.320] But also, you've got these full-service laundry centers that are developing here where they're fully staffed all times.
[00:56:42.320 --> 00:56:44.480] They're open long hours.
[00:56:44.480 --> 00:56:47.280] They highly focus on customer service.
[00:56:47.600 --> 00:56:50.000] They offer drop-off service.
[00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:53.120] They do pickup and delivery out of their locations.
[00:56:53.680 --> 00:56:59.760] And they become sort of a one-stop shop for all things laundry, dry cleaning, all that stuff.
[00:56:59.760 --> 00:57:00.320] Right.
[00:57:00.320 --> 00:57:02.800] And we're seeing a lot more of those.
[00:57:02.800 --> 00:57:04.720] It's leading to larger locations.
[00:57:04.720 --> 00:57:09.680] It's leading to higher revenues, but obviously a lot more involved.
[00:57:10.160 --> 00:57:11.520] Sure, more labor involved.
[00:57:11.520 --> 00:57:11.920] Yeah.
[00:57:11.920 --> 00:57:12.160] Yeah.
[00:57:12.160 --> 00:57:16.880] At least initially, until you can get management in place and get that machine running from you.
[00:57:16.880 --> 00:57:28.560] But I've got some buddies who are operating some of these big super centers and are just as passive as the person running the unattended stores.
[00:57:28.560 --> 00:57:29.440] Yeah, it's funny.
[00:57:29.440 --> 00:57:37.280] One of the most, probably the most popular book that's been recommended on the show in the last 12 to 18 months is Buy Back Your Time by Dan Martell.
[00:57:37.280 --> 00:57:44.640] And I'm working my way through it, but common examples like, I really don't, doing laundry doesn't really light me up.
[00:57:44.640 --> 00:57:49.120] You know, I don't really check that box of where's my zone of genius.
[00:57:49.120 --> 00:57:53.840] And so, more and more people perhaps are shifting towards outsourcing this chore.
[00:57:53.840 --> 00:57:59.960] And we've seen services, there's a couple kind of like Uber for laundry, where it's like Poplin is one.
[00:57:59.680 --> 00:58:03.080] I think there's another one called Hamper, or maybe they emerged or something.
[00:58:03.400 --> 00:58:09.720] But it's like, and from the side hustle perspective, like, oh, if you are the person who likes doing laundry, you can get paid to do other people's laundry.
[00:58:09.880 --> 00:58:21.240] Have you seen kind of that shift where more and more it's not just the people who don't have a washer and dryer in their house, in their apartment, it's the people who are like, I just don't want to deal with this anymore.
[00:58:21.240 --> 00:58:23.240] Like, hire this out.
[00:58:23.240 --> 00:58:27.480] Yeah, we've seen a huge explosion of that.
[00:58:27.480 --> 00:58:35.320] Uh, and that side of the industry, that service side, the drop-off laundry where you drop it off the location or the pickup and delivery is growing by leaps and bounds.
[00:58:35.320 --> 00:58:41.480] Uh, and I genuinely think that laundry is going to become the next yard work.
[00:58:41.480 --> 00:58:44.440] Like, where I live, people aren't really mowing their lawns.
[00:58:44.440 --> 00:58:44.840] Yeah.
[00:58:45.160 --> 00:58:58.360] And I think as people learn that I can just drop my dirty laundry on my front porch and somebody will come grab it and the laundry fairy brings it back clean and folded for me.
[00:58:58.360 --> 00:59:01.080] That I just think more and more people are going to opt for that.
[00:59:01.080 --> 00:59:02.600] Speaking of buyback your time, right?
[00:59:02.600 --> 00:59:06.440] Like, who wants to be doing laundry half the day on Saturday?
[00:59:07.000 --> 00:59:07.800] Nobody, right?
[00:59:07.800 --> 00:59:10.520] Well, it's not, there are some weirdos that love laundry.
[00:59:10.680 --> 00:59:11.800] I'll just say that.
[00:59:12.040 --> 00:59:12.840] Love doing laundry.
[00:59:13.000 --> 00:59:13.480] I don't know.
[00:59:13.480 --> 00:59:15.000] I'm in charge of the laundry in our house.
[00:59:15.000 --> 00:59:18.360] And it's like, it's not, it's not something I dread doing.
[00:59:18.360 --> 00:59:20.680] I mean, the machine does most of the work and then you got to try it.
[00:59:21.240 --> 00:59:27.400] It's an excuse to, you know, listen to a podcast or watch some Netflix or something, but it's not the end of the world.
[00:59:27.400 --> 00:59:41.880] But I could see if from the side hustle perspective, like, yeah, the acquisition side has become more competitive here, but also the upside and the pie has maybe gotten a little bit bigger as well on the demand of who's using this type of service.
[00:59:41.880 --> 00:59:42.280] Yeah.
[00:59:42.280 --> 00:59:49.680] And we're actually seeing a lot more people come in solely on the service side, or at least initially on the service side, right?
[00:59:49.680 --> 00:59:58.480] So, a lot of people are starting pickup and delivery businesses in their communities before owning or without owning a laundromat, right?
[00:59:58.480 --> 01:00:07.440] And they'll just process the laundry at a laundromat or they'll build something out in their garage or in a shed out back or lots of different ways people are doing it.
[01:00:07.440 --> 01:00:14.880] But I'm seeing a lot more people doing that and doing it as a side hustle kind of before and after work.
[01:00:14.880 --> 01:00:21.040] The beauty of the service side of the business is really the sky's the limit on what you can do.
[01:00:21.040 --> 01:00:29.520] On a physical location, you're limited by your capacity of how much business you can do, but on the pickup and delivery side, I mean, you can process overnight.
[01:00:29.520 --> 01:00:30.960] You can go to multiple locations.
[01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:33.120] You can go to other people's locations and process it.
[01:00:33.120 --> 01:00:34.640] There's lots of options there.
[01:00:34.640 --> 01:00:35.120] Yeah.
[01:00:35.120 --> 01:00:35.360] Yeah.
[01:00:35.360 --> 01:00:35.920] That's an interesting.
[01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:41.040] I mean, that's what these kind of startup peer-to-peer laundry type of services are essentially doing.
[01:00:41.200 --> 01:00:48.720] We can build a distributed army of contractors, laundry contractors, and we can go out and serve tons and tons of clients.
[01:00:48.720 --> 01:00:49.280] Yeah.
[01:00:49.600 --> 01:00:57.200] Anything else, trend-wise, or in the personal portfolio that is interesting of note over the last few years?
[01:00:57.200 --> 01:01:00.880] I'm seeing a consolidation right now starting to happen.
[01:01:00.880 --> 01:01:05.440] There's fewer owners owning larger portfolios.
[01:01:05.440 --> 01:01:07.920] This has been traditionally a mom and pop industry, right?
[01:01:07.920 --> 01:01:09.520] Like it's not rocket science.
[01:01:09.520 --> 01:01:10.560] It's just laundry.
[01:01:10.560 --> 01:01:12.720] And yeah, that's something we talked about.
[01:01:12.720 --> 01:01:14.560] It was super, super fragmented.
[01:01:14.560 --> 01:01:15.680] Yeah, and it still is.
[01:01:15.680 --> 01:01:17.200] I mean, it still by and large is.
[01:01:17.200 --> 01:01:23.200] However, there are more people getting more aggressive about building or buying laundromats and building.
[01:01:23.280 --> 01:01:25.760] Private equity roll-ups are coming for you.
[01:01:25.760 --> 01:01:26.320] They're coming.
[01:01:26.320 --> 01:01:31.480] And I think with that comes multiples that start to go up even more.
[01:01:32.040 --> 01:01:38.120] It wouldn't surprise me if down the line we start seeing 10x multipliers in the business.
[01:01:38.120 --> 01:01:38.440] Yeah.
[01:01:38.440 --> 01:01:38.760] All right.
[01:01:38.760 --> 01:01:40.280] Well, now's the time to get in.
[01:01:40.280 --> 01:01:48.840] If you find one for sale in your hometown, you can find Jordan again at laundromatresource.com hosting the laundromat resource podcast.
[01:01:48.840 --> 01:01:50.760] Any other advice before we wrap?
[01:01:50.760 --> 01:01:56.920] If you can persevere enough and actually find those deals, the rewards are still there for you.
[01:01:56.920 --> 01:02:04.680] And in some ways, that barrier is a good thing because it does weed out a lot of competition.
[01:02:04.920 --> 01:02:07.560] So persevere there and then don't go it alone.
[01:02:07.800 --> 01:02:09.640] You know, lots of free resources out there.
[01:02:09.640 --> 01:02:15.080] Lots of people out there help you like with any side hustle or any investment that you're doing.
[01:02:15.320 --> 01:02:20.200] Just save yourself the headache and borrow somebody else's 10,000 hours.
[01:02:20.680 --> 01:02:21.080] Absolutely.
[01:02:21.320 --> 01:02:23.160] Start off on the right foot.
[01:02:23.160 --> 01:02:23.800] Very good.
[01:02:23.800 --> 01:02:25.720] Jordan, thanks so much for sharing your insight.
[01:02:25.720 --> 01:02:28.920] Thanks to our sponsors for helping make this content free for everyone.
[01:02:28.920 --> 01:02:34.840] As always, you can hit up sidehustlenation.com/slash deals for all the latest offers from our sponsors in one place.
[01:02:34.840 --> 01:02:35.880] That is it for me.
[01:02:35.880 --> 01:02:37.400] Thank you so much for tuning in.
[01:02:37.400 --> 01:02:39.960] Until next time, let's go out there and make something happen.
[01:02:39.960 --> 01:02:42.920] And I'll catch you in the next edition of the Side Hustle Show.
[01:02:42.920 --> 01:02:43.720] Hustle on.