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[00:01:02.320 --> 00:01:06.000] You never know if you're ahead of the curve.
[00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:12.480] I mean, Julian, on last week's episode, we talked about you being way ahead on the celebrity Lyme disease.
[00:01:12.480 --> 00:01:13.120] Absolutely.
[00:01:13.120 --> 00:01:31.600] But let's talk about cycling legend Lance Armstrong for a minute because he became a cultural punchline when it was revealed that he was doping during his seven Tour de France wins when he was using EPO, human growth hormone, testosterone, corticosteroids, blood transfusions, and masking agents.
[00:01:31.600 --> 00:01:36.720] Ever since, he's tried to stage comebacks to varying degrees of success.
[00:01:36.720 --> 00:01:38.640] He does retain a solid fan base.
[00:01:38.640 --> 00:01:41.520] He has 603,000 Instagram followers.
[00:01:41.520 --> 00:01:42.480] Couldn't cancel him.
[00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:45.920] No, no, he gets trolled pretty regularly, though, I will say.
[00:01:46.080 --> 00:01:54.960] He did weigh in on the trans athletes thing a few months ago, I noticed, but the overwhelming sentiment in that one was like, hey, buddy, send this one out, okay?
[00:01:54.960 --> 00:01:58.320] Lance Armstrong is an advocate for fairness in sports.
[00:01:58.640 --> 00:02:05.000] Well, that's what we're getting to because lately the 53-year-old cyclist has been posting more workout content.
[00:02:05.320 --> 00:02:13.160] He has a bunch of videos of him shirtless doing sled poles and kettlebell farmers carries and yeah, some cycling videos.
[00:02:13.160 --> 00:02:27.720] He did announce in 2024, so this is pretty early on where we're going today, that he's going to be competing in the Enhanced Games, which is a Silicon Valley invention that aims to be the Olympics for dopers.
[00:02:28.040 --> 00:02:28.760] That's right.
[00:02:28.760 --> 00:02:40.120] You probably heard about that, about this event, and it's going to be held in Las Vegas in May 2026, where anything and everything is on the table.
[00:02:40.120 --> 00:02:47.400] We're going to be talking about the games today, but there's two real ironies to Armstrong's participation.
[00:02:47.400 --> 00:02:54.680] First, there is no cycling competition in it, so he's planning on competing in track and field.
[00:02:54.680 --> 00:03:02.840] Second, Lance has promised to not take any performance and enhancement drugs leading up to or during the event.
[00:03:02.840 --> 00:03:05.720] Let's actually, Jillian, can you read his announcement post?
[00:03:06.600 --> 00:03:15.080] I know it sounds strange that I'm going to games where doping is legal, but just because you can do something doesn't mean you have to do it.
[00:03:15.080 --> 00:03:20.440] There's no way I will take anything illegal before or during the event.
[00:03:20.440 --> 00:03:25.160] The only substance I will bring is a six-pack of Shinerbach.
[00:03:25.160 --> 00:03:27.960] Okay, I mean, Sheinerbach's a mid-level lager.
[00:03:27.960 --> 00:03:28.680] You know, fine.
[00:03:28.680 --> 00:03:32.360] You know, I'm not going to hate on you, but you could have at least chosen a better lager.
[00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:39.720] But I'm going to guess he's hoping that taking a contrarian approach here will help to elevate his profile.
[00:03:39.720 --> 00:03:44.360] Whereas before going against regulations tanked his career, who the fuck knows?
[00:03:44.360 --> 00:03:48.080] I've stopped trying to make sense of people we cover on this podcast.
[00:03:48.400 --> 00:03:58.400] What is certain is that other athletes are definitely going to be taking whatever might give them an edge, as per the founders and the funders' hopes.
[00:03:58.720 --> 00:04:00.080] All right, let's get into this.
[00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:01.200] I'm Derek Barris.
[00:04:01.200 --> 00:04:02.320] I'm Julian Walker.
[00:04:02.320 --> 00:04:05.520] You are listening to a conspiratuality brief.
[00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:07.520] We do these every Saturday.
[00:04:07.520 --> 00:04:11.920] As always, you can find us on Instagram and threads at conspirituality pod.
[00:04:11.920 --> 00:04:14.560] We are also all individually on Blue Sky.
[00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:28.080] And if you are able to support us as we are independent media, you can do so at patreon.com/slash conspiratuality or via Apple Podcasts, where you can access our Monday bonus episodes.
[00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:33.040] Back to the funders.
[00:04:33.040 --> 00:04:40.480] One of them is Peter Teal, who's probably first to mind for many people when thinking of athletes.
[00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:56.400] Of course, I'm being sarcastic, but the odd thing about the entire founding team is that none of them are athletes or even care that much about sports, which leads us to the most fascinating and mind-numbing aspect of this entire story.
[00:04:56.400 --> 00:04:59.760] And it's in large part why we're covering it on this podcast.
[00:04:59.760 --> 00:05:03.280] The entire thing seems to be a supplements grift.
[00:05:03.280 --> 00:05:04.080] Come on.
[00:05:04.080 --> 00:05:04.400] All right.
[00:05:04.400 --> 00:05:11.040] So, Amit Katwala, he spent a long time writing an extensive feature on the game for Wired magazines.
[00:05:11.040 --> 00:05:11.840] It's fantastic.
[00:05:11.840 --> 00:05:13.280] I've included it in the show notes.
[00:05:13.760 --> 00:05:15.600] He does the reverse of what we're doing.
[00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:18.160] He reveals this at the end of the article.
[00:05:18.160 --> 00:05:20.480] And when he does, it just punched me in the gut.
[00:05:20.480 --> 00:05:28.400] So, to preempt the clips that we're going to play, here he's talking about the Enhanced Games founder, Aaron DeSueza.
[00:05:28.400 --> 00:05:39.640] All through my reporting, I've been struggling to understand what was in it for the investors, why billionaires with no interest in sport were so interested in disrupting it.
[00:05:39.640 --> 00:05:53.400] Toward the end of the presentation in Vegas, it all clicked into place when DeSouza announced the launch of Enhanced Performance Products, a new line of supplements inspired by the ones athletes will be taking to prepare for the games.
[00:05:53.400 --> 00:05:58.840] This pill helped me run 100 meters in nine seconds, and now you can buy it too.
[00:05:58.840 --> 00:06:02.840] The model isn't the Olympics or the World Cup, it's Red Bull.
[00:06:02.840 --> 00:06:05.000] It's just utterly fascinating, you know.
[00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:06.120] And think about Red Bull.
[00:06:06.360 --> 00:06:10.840] I've never actually drank it, I've taken a sip once, which made me never want to drink it.
[00:06:10.840 --> 00:06:13.400] They're a company that actually does amazing content.
[00:06:13.400 --> 00:06:25.960] I still follow them online because just the ridiculousness of what these athletes do, but it's a bit different because they're always doing things that are pushing the boundaries, but they're not leading with, hey, let's dope and do this.
[00:06:26.280 --> 00:06:30.920] They're leading with fantastic athletes, and then they sell a shitty drink on the side.
[00:06:30.920 --> 00:06:37.320] This seems to be sort of reverse engineering, although they're presenting it as if they're doing the same process as Red Bull.
[00:06:37.320 --> 00:06:39.080] Let's step back for some context.
[00:06:39.080 --> 00:06:45.480] DeSuza, he's an Australian native who went to the University of Oxford to study law in 2009.
[00:06:45.480 --> 00:06:47.240] And then a friend was coming into town.
[00:06:47.240 --> 00:06:49.720] He said, Hey, can you throw, can you show my friend around?
[00:06:49.720 --> 00:06:52.200] Can you take us, you know, just lead us around as a tourist?
[00:06:52.520 --> 00:06:55.480] That friend happened to be Peter Teal.
[00:06:55.800 --> 00:07:02.760] Open AI CEO Sam Altman later said that DeSuesa is, quote, obsessed with status and powder.
[00:07:02.760 --> 00:07:03.320] Power?
[00:07:03.640 --> 00:07:07.720] So, during those early meetings, we're getting there.
[00:07:07.720 --> 00:07:15.680] So, during those early meetings with Teal, the law student devised a plan to help him get revenge on Gawker for outing him as gay.
[00:07:14.840 --> 00:07:22.320] So, this entire whole Kogan thing that brought down Gawker was devised by the founder of Enhanced Games.
[00:07:22.880 --> 00:07:32.080] Since that time, he followed the only logical path open to him, which was to become a Silicon Valley capitalist and entrepreneur.
[00:07:32.080 --> 00:07:34.000] I have not heard anyone say his name.
[00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:36.080] I hear you saying Desuza.
[00:07:36.080 --> 00:07:39.760] I grew up with a lot of people who had this name, and it was D'Souza.
[00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:43.120] Are you saying it based on having heard people say it?
[00:07:43.280 --> 00:07:47.040] No, I regularly mispronounce things, but I've heard Desuza before.
[00:07:47.040 --> 00:07:58.800] Okay, people have commented on my saying Theranos instead of Theranos, which actually is a glitch in my brain because whenever I think of Theranos, I think of Thanos as the ultimate evil, and it just stuck.
[00:07:58.800 --> 00:07:59.200] Yes, it is.
[00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:01.120] So, you know what?
[00:08:01.120 --> 00:08:02.640] We're going to be saying it differently.
[00:08:02.880 --> 00:08:09.280] Let's just say Desuza together, and we'll just own it and just go right into whatever backlash we get.
[00:08:09.280 --> 00:08:10.560] Or we could go into D'Souza.
[00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:12.560] I'm fine with that now that you've opened it up.
[00:08:12.560 --> 00:08:13.200] Okay.
[00:08:13.200 --> 00:08:14.160] All right, cool.
[00:08:14.160 --> 00:08:18.320] So, yeah, for listeners, you should know that I regularly mispronounce things.
[00:08:18.320 --> 00:08:20.640] So, I'm sorry and deal with it.
[00:08:20.640 --> 00:08:25.200] Okay, so let's hear D'Souza telling Joe Rogan why he started.
[00:08:25.200 --> 00:08:26.640] Did I say Rogan right?
[00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:30.240] Why he started Rogan.
[00:08:30.240 --> 00:08:32.160] Okay, why he started the enhanced games.
[00:08:32.160 --> 00:08:35.680] I've been studying the Olympics and the Olympic movement my entire life.
[00:08:35.680 --> 00:08:39.680] You know, I'm 39 years old when I was an undergraduate at university.
[00:08:39.680 --> 00:08:44.640] It was just after the Sydney Olympics, and you know, it was always something that inspired me.
[00:08:44.640 --> 00:08:55.680] And I thought to myself, you know, I learned some key statistics: 44% of Olympians admit to using banned performance-enhancing drugs within the last year, according to research commissioned by the World Antidemy.
[00:08:55.840 --> 00:08:56.560] 44%.
[00:08:56.560 --> 00:08:57.360] 44%.
[00:08:57.360 --> 00:08:59.640] And the other, you know, probably lying.
[00:08:59.280 --> 00:09:00.600] Are losing.
[00:08:59.360 --> 00:09:01.640] Exactly.
[00:09:02.280 --> 00:09:08.760] And so, you know, and then I learned that the average American Olympian only earns $30,000 a year.
[00:09:08.760 --> 00:09:11.880] And I thought to myself, there's something really wrong in the system.
[00:09:11.880 --> 00:09:20.840] And instead of trying to reform it, let's take a blank slate of paper and invent the third Olympia ad from scratch.
[00:09:21.240 --> 00:09:32.040] Well, the Olympics is kind of a scam because it generates billions of dollars in revenue, and the people that are there to perform make almost none of that.
[00:09:32.040 --> 00:09:32.680] That's correct.
[00:09:33.160 --> 00:09:37.000] Actually, the International Olympic Committee doesn't pay any of the athletes.
[00:09:37.400 --> 00:09:42.040] Incidentally, they may get some money in sponsorship or from their National Olympic Committee.
[00:09:42.040 --> 00:09:48.120] But ultimately, the billions of dollars in revenue come into the Olympics, and none of that goes to the athletes.
[00:09:48.120 --> 00:09:50.040] It gets wasted building stadiums.
[00:09:50.040 --> 00:09:52.760] It gets wasted paying officials.
[00:09:52.760 --> 00:10:00.680] And we thought there's a way to do a better, more honest model that inspires us to believe in the future of science and technology in the 21st century.
[00:10:00.680 --> 00:10:09.080] I just always find it fascinating when someone leads by saying, I'm 39 years old, and I've been studying the Olympics my entire life.
[00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:11.880] And it's like the guy's not even in academia, right?
[00:10:11.880 --> 00:10:15.000] He's just like, I've been around the block and I know a few things.
[00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:18.280] In fact, I learned these two statistics that I'm going to drop on you right now.
[00:10:18.280 --> 00:10:20.120] I have to say, I did not fact-check those.
[00:10:20.120 --> 00:10:26.120] You're going to hear later from some of the clips you chose, Julian, that I go hard because he gets a lot of shit wrong.
[00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:27.240] Those I let go.
[00:10:27.240 --> 00:10:31.880] And I actually appreciated Rogan's comment there about the Olympics and not paying athletes.
[00:10:31.880 --> 00:10:33.480] It reminds me of like college athletics.
[00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:35.080] Like, he's absolutely right on that.
[00:10:35.080 --> 00:10:42.920] But I find DeSuza's argument there disingenuous for two main reasons, both of which I learned about the Wired article.
[00:10:42.920 --> 00:10:46.000] As I said, we know the founders don't really care about sports.
[00:10:44.840 --> 00:10:50.960] So this romanticized notion I've been the Olympics fan is likely bullshit.
[00:10:51.600 --> 00:10:56.400] We know it's not about paying athletes for their own good as well.
[00:10:56.400 --> 00:10:58.160] And that's really the important part here.
[00:10:58.160 --> 00:11:05.200] But it's to say, hey, look at these highly paid athletes now buy what they're on.
[00:11:05.200 --> 00:11:08.640] So my bullshit detector went off during that clip.
[00:11:08.640 --> 00:11:09.360] Yeah, yeah.
[00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:22.560] In a little bit, I'll go into like the multiple angles that they take because I think this is actually a very carefully rehearsed and prepared way of trying to pitch essentially what they're selling to Joe Rogan and his audience.
[00:11:22.560 --> 00:11:27.200] For the whole of the interview, D'Souza is really doing this canned sales pitch.
[00:11:27.200 --> 00:11:28.560] He's got all the angles covered.
[00:11:28.560 --> 00:11:42.560] He starts in this clip that I'm about to play by suggesting that both natural athletes and those natural athletes who've won the genetic lottery and those who are enhanced could compete side by side and it'll make great TV.
[00:11:42.560 --> 00:11:43.760] And then notice where he ends up.
[00:11:43.920 --> 00:11:47.440] Well, so number one, you don't have to take enhancements to be at the enhanced games.
[00:11:47.440 --> 00:11:48.240] You can just be a regular person.
[00:11:48.320 --> 00:11:48.880] You can be a regular person.
[00:11:49.520 --> 00:11:49.840] Yeah, yeah.
[00:11:49.840 --> 00:11:53.520] You can say, hey, I won the genetic lottery, right?
[00:11:53.520 --> 00:11:56.960] And I think I can beat all the enhanced athletes and make great television.
[00:11:56.960 --> 00:11:58.160] Yeah, that's fun too, right?
[00:11:58.160 --> 00:11:58.480] Yeah.
[00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:08.080] And so, you know, if you believe you've won the genetic lottery and you think you can show up and break a world record and get a million bucks, they'll come and do it, right?
[00:12:08.080 --> 00:12:09.280] And do it naturally.
[00:12:09.520 --> 00:12:15.920] And then some say, you know, I did not win the genetic lottery and I want the chance to be the Neil Armstrong of our generation.
[00:12:17.760 --> 00:12:18.720] This is how I think of it.
[00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:22.000] I think we're building the Apollo mission for the 21st century.
[00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:23.760] You know, what did the Apollo mission do?
[00:12:23.760 --> 00:12:28.320] It showed us that we were so much more capable as a human species, right?
[00:12:28.560 --> 00:12:34.120] We hit a new threshold going to the moon using science and technology to overcome our limits.
[00:12:29.760 --> 00:12:36.200] This is exactly what the Enhanced Games is about.
[00:12:37.720 --> 00:12:39.400] Sword, you're not going to the moon.
[00:12:39.400 --> 00:12:40.200] Let's be serious.
[00:12:40.520 --> 00:12:41.240] It's going to be cool.
[00:12:41.640 --> 00:12:42.600] That's very bad.
[00:12:42.680 --> 00:12:46.120] You're just getting a bunch of guys juiced up, running really fast.
[00:12:46.120 --> 00:12:46.920] Big difference.
[00:12:46.920 --> 00:12:48.440] But still make history.
[00:12:49.160 --> 00:12:52.280] I would say breaking a world record is a thing.
[00:12:52.280 --> 00:12:57.000] Maybe not going to the moon, but like it's something people aspire to do.
[00:12:57.000 --> 00:12:57.480] Yeah.
[00:12:57.480 --> 00:13:01.480] I know Rogan gets so much shit, and we've given him a lot of shit for good reason.
[00:13:01.480 --> 00:13:14.120] He's platformed a lot of nonsense, but you have to understand this is also what draws people in because when he hears shit like this about things that he knows and the world, the waters he swims in, he's not afraid to be like, what the fuck are you talking about?
[00:13:15.400 --> 00:13:18.520] He goes, he goes, you're not going to the moon.
[00:13:18.520 --> 00:13:22.040] And then DeSuzu's reaction is, well, it's going to be cool.
[00:13:22.920 --> 00:13:26.040] I also have to say, the timing couldn't be more perfect for this.
[00:13:26.040 --> 00:13:33.000] It just shows you, it's a snapshot in where America is right now, because in May, you have this going on.
[00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:43.800] And in July, to celebrate the 250th anniversary of the founding of fucking America, Dana White is going to be doing a UFC fucking cage match at the White House for the celebration.
[00:13:44.120 --> 00:13:48.680] And I'm sure Rogan's going to be commentating on that.
[00:13:48.680 --> 00:13:49.320] Absolutely.
[00:13:49.320 --> 00:13:49.960] Yeah.
[00:13:49.960 --> 00:13:52.360] So this is as crazy.
[00:13:52.360 --> 00:14:09.080] And as much as we're laughing and fuck off to all of this about putting people's lives in dangers to shave a hundredths of a second off of a world record to sell supplements, it really does give you insight into where we are in this culture.
[00:14:09.080 --> 00:14:09.400] Yeah.
[00:14:09.400 --> 00:14:15.200] And that Peter Thiel and his VC buddies are like, yes, that, that's where I'm going to put my money.
[00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:15.360] Right.
[00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:17.360] And there's been a lot of great reporting recently.
[00:14:17.520 --> 00:14:28.240] Like More Perfect Union did a piece talking to an ex-Palantir employee who kind of breaks down what goes on inside of that business, which is just making billions of dollars right now.
[00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:46.080] And you have this world where the same people who are funding the defense machinery, which are creating genocides and fucking surveillance tech and all this shit, is also on the other side leading the entertainment charge by funding these sorts of endeavors.
[00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:47.680] It's really malicious.
[00:14:47.680 --> 00:14:48.000] All right.
[00:14:48.000 --> 00:15:01.440] So I don't know about you, Derek, but I just was waiting to see if a certain anti-vax but pro-testosterone replacement therapy figure would eventually show up in this conversation.
[00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:14.080] The same compounds that allow individual athletes to run faster and jump higher are the ones that will allow us to be younger, faster, and stronger for longer.
[00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:18.880] And, you know, I think that's a very admirable aspiration.
[00:15:18.880 --> 00:15:20.000] You know, look at Robert F.
[00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:20.800] Kennedy Jr.
[00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:25.280] You know, he's doing pull-ups when Joe Biden and Donald Trump can hardly walk up a flight of stairs.
[00:15:25.280 --> 00:15:25.760] Yeah.
[00:15:25.760 --> 00:15:27.920] And he's very openly enhanced.
[00:15:27.920 --> 00:15:31.680] Yeah, openly enhanced and works out with jeans on, which is odd, right?
[00:15:32.400 --> 00:15:33.760] Jeans thing is so weird.
[00:15:33.760 --> 00:15:34.960] Like, what are you doing, man?
[00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:47.120] I was at the gym yesterday morning working out, and an older gentleman, I would put him about an 80, was in there, but he was wearing jeans and a button-down shirt, like a proper dress shirt, doing like sweating and working out.
[00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:48.800] And I was like, it hit me in my head.
[00:15:48.800 --> 00:15:53.920] I'm like, Kennedy could actually probably launch a fitness line at this point of workout jeans.
[00:15:53.920 --> 00:15:56.720] And I'm sure a lot of people would start buying them.
[00:15:56.720 --> 00:16:03.480] I used to have a student who took my yoga class straight from his finance job on Wall Street where he'd wear a button down and slacks.
[00:16:03.800 --> 00:16:09.960] And the first time he came into my class, I went over and I was like, hey, you know, I know you ran in, but if you want to change and then come back, it's cool.
[00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:11.080] And he was like, no.
[00:16:11.400 --> 00:16:14.040] And I never again said anything to him.
[00:16:14.040 --> 00:16:15.240] I'm like, okay, you do you.
[00:16:15.240 --> 00:16:17.080] And he kept coming back and wearing slacks.
[00:16:17.080 --> 00:16:19.560] So it happens.
[00:16:19.560 --> 00:16:25.880] But to go back to that bullshit, comparing Trump with Biden here, Biden works out five days a week.
[00:16:25.880 --> 00:16:28.760] He incorporates cardio and strength training into a routine.
[00:16:28.760 --> 00:16:30.520] He uses a personal trainer.
[00:16:30.520 --> 00:16:32.840] He cycles on stationary and real bikes.
[00:16:32.840 --> 00:16:35.400] But dude fell off his bike one time.
[00:16:35.720 --> 00:16:40.920] Something that, you know, I'm not quite half of his age, but that happens as cyclists.
[00:16:40.920 --> 00:16:41.880] It's happened to me.
[00:16:42.200 --> 00:16:46.360] And the right did so much media on the fact that he happened to fall off his bike.
[00:16:46.360 --> 00:16:56.920] He's an older man fighting cognitive decline, and he's doing the exact thing all the fitness bro podcasters say we should be doing as we age.
[00:16:56.920 --> 00:17:08.360] But because he's not on TRT like Kennedy and doesn't look enhanced, they equate him, which they equate him with Trump, who infamously once claimed he doesn't work out because the body is like a battery.
[00:17:08.360 --> 00:17:11.560] And once you use up all the energy, it's gone forever.
[00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:21.320] These men are not the same, but it does give you insight into the poorly hidden vulnerabilities men like Rogan and DeSuza battle internally.
[00:17:21.320 --> 00:17:26.360] If you don't look Jack, you aren't doing enough, no matter how healthy you actually are.
[00:17:26.360 --> 00:17:27.800] It's all about appearances.
[00:17:27.800 --> 00:17:29.480] It's not actually about health.
[00:17:29.480 --> 00:17:30.600] Yeah, very well said.
[00:17:30.600 --> 00:17:33.080] Those comparisons are super telling.
[00:17:33.080 --> 00:17:35.880] And I don't know if you want to hold up RFK Jr.
[00:17:35.960 --> 00:17:39.000] as kind of a paragon of graceful aging.
[00:17:39.320 --> 00:17:55.280] No, Will Matthew made the comment about his jerky skin the other day, which is just so, and also, I don't know if you noticed, but on his Twitter feed, using his HHS feed the other day, he posted himself in jeans in a gym, talking about when he travels, he always visits gyms and works out.
[00:17:55.280 --> 00:17:59.840] It was like his little, his little moment to be like, I'm doing this.
[00:17:59.840 --> 00:18:03.680] And again, this is not to say, like, I work out incessantly.
[00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:18.640] Like, I think working out is really important, but the optics of this, somebody of that age who is on something, on a few things, to show that to pretend that that's what everyone can achieve just by going to the gym is utter bullshit.
[00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:22.160] Yeah, yeah, he's the role model for making America healthy again.
[00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:25.760] So, this discussion takes a lot of twists and turns.
[00:18:26.080 --> 00:18:28.240] It feels, as I said before, very well rehearsed.
[00:18:28.240 --> 00:18:30.080] It feels tailored to Rogan's audience.
[00:18:30.080 --> 00:18:32.560] So, as you pointed out, Derek, the Olympics are a scam.
[00:18:32.560 --> 00:18:34.080] They're environmentally wasteful.
[00:18:34.080 --> 00:18:38.160] We can do it all online and streaming without building all of those single-use stadiums.
[00:18:38.560 --> 00:18:39.680] Fair comment.
[00:18:39.680 --> 00:18:46.480] It's ruled over by a group of aristocratic elites, and it's dishonest because everyone is actually on steroids.
[00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:48.320] And then they go into psychedelics.
[00:18:48.320 --> 00:18:52.000] Psychedelics actually are statistically safe.
[00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:55.120] I'm sure it's going to be selling those too.
[00:18:55.120 --> 00:18:56.960] I'm pretty positive.
[00:18:56.960 --> 00:19:01.200] But people have an irrational cultural fear about psychedelics.
[00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:07.760] Meanwhile, alcohol has incredibly bad outcomes at high statistical rates, yet it's widely culturally accepted and you can see it everywhere.
[00:19:07.760 --> 00:19:20.480] I mean, they're not wrong, but this becomes a way of suggesting that steroids are not really so dangerous either, especially when done with high levels of medical supervision, which is what they claim to have as part of their model.
[00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:34.040] Now, beyond the dangers of alcohol, there's a couple times in this interview where they make statements about how processed foods and sugar are even more normalized and they're the most dangerous drugs of our time.
[00:19:29.840 --> 00:19:35.560] So, again, shout out to Maha.
[00:19:35.880 --> 00:19:38.600] Except if the real sugar is in Coke, yeah, exactly.
[00:19:38.680 --> 00:19:39.400] That's fine.
[00:19:39.400 --> 00:19:47.000] Yeah, well, because your body knows how to break that down in a way that it can't do with what is it, highly frozen corn syrup.
[00:19:48.120 --> 00:19:53.640] That's actually what's that's what's causing obesity and diabetes, right?
[00:19:53.960 --> 00:20:07.000] And then they mock how in the early 90s, there was this hysteria about creatine as a dangerous new PED, and that Olympians would be encouraging children to take it if creatine was not banned for competition.
[00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:10.600] And we knew that that was wrong, so therefore, steroids must be okay, right?
[00:20:10.600 --> 00:20:14.680] But you know, that's a good point because I take creatine daily.
[00:20:14.920 --> 00:20:21.720] Creatine is one of the most studied supplements now in this optimization workout world.
[00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:24.920] Yeah, and that's that's how science worked.
[00:20:24.920 --> 00:20:31.720] When there wasn't a lot of data on it, there was some fear-mongering around it, and that makes sense because people didn't know.
[00:20:31.720 --> 00:20:41.560] Now that it has been extensively studied, we've seen that it works for you know limited reasons.
[00:20:41.560 --> 00:20:45.560] And then people update their understanding of the science.
[00:20:45.560 --> 00:20:51.080] That does not mean steroids, which have also been studied, are safe because of that.
[00:20:51.080 --> 00:20:58.920] It's not like decades down the road, we're going to be like, oh, wow, juicing actually didn't shake your testicles or make you lose your hair or give you fucking roid rage.
[00:20:58.920 --> 00:21:02.440] Yeah, yeah, no, they're the Galileos of steroids.
[00:21:02.440 --> 00:21:10.880] And now, I should just add that if you go to creatine.com using the code ConspiraBros50, you can get 50% off.
[00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:14.440] Conspirate Bros.
[00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:18.000] Most of our listeners are women, though, Julian.
[00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:20.000] You should have created a better discount code.
[00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:20.960] Jesus, man.
[00:21:21.600 --> 00:21:23.280] I'll work on it for next time.
[00:21:23.280 --> 00:21:29.600] So, another argument they make, which again, you can see they're doing their song and dance here to try to appeal to all the right people.
[00:21:29.600 --> 00:21:34.320] They are pro-bodily autonomy for adults.
[00:21:34.320 --> 00:21:36.800] So, therefore, people should be able to use.
[00:21:36.800 --> 00:21:38.640] It's a libertarian argument, essentially, right?
[00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:41.760] If you want to use steroids, you should be able to, regardless of the medical risks.
[00:21:41.760 --> 00:21:47.440] That's a really fascinating one, though, because if you think about that culturally, this is the biggest argument.
[00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:49.920] So, let's just actually think about that.
[00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:56.000] Increased steroid usage, we know, can create more violence in men.
[00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:57.760] Reid rage is a real thing.
[00:21:57.760 --> 00:21:58.320] Oh, yeah.
[00:21:58.320 --> 00:22:10.720] So, you are saying, give me this bodily autonomy that increases my risk of actually starting fights, possibly with my wife or domestic partner, which has been documented before.
[00:22:10.720 --> 00:22:23.200] So, every time I hear this bodily autonomy about the individual thing, it's never considered who in that environment that they're in might be affected by that decision.
[00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:28.720] Yeah, it strikes me as being somewhat adjacent to some Second Amendment arguments, right?
[00:22:29.040 --> 00:22:29.840] Very much so.
[00:22:29.840 --> 00:22:30.720] So, it's my right.
[00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:31.840] It's my freedom.
[00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:33.200] I'm protecting myself.
[00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:41.200] It's like, yeah, but what about all the people who are at risk as a result of everyone having access to every kind of gun all the time?
[00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:45.840] They say we should be leading the world in the scientific advancement of human performance.
[00:22:45.840 --> 00:22:55.760] And this can open up whole new markets for life enhancement for non-athletes, as they were just saying with RFK Jr., as well as for endorsements from athletic gear companies.
[00:22:55.760 --> 00:23:00.000] They're just pitching this shit right on the show who want to be associated with real progress.
[00:23:00.200 --> 00:23:07.560] He's like, yeah, so Nike endorses the Olympics because they're like the fastest people in the world wear our shoes.
[00:23:07.560 --> 00:23:08.840] So you should as well.
[00:23:08.840 --> 00:23:19.080] Well, that means there's an opening for the Enhanced Games to have an endorsement from a shoe company who could then one-up Nike because actually their athletes are the fastest in the world.
[00:23:19.320 --> 00:23:34.520] You know, that is so, again, indicative of where we are as a culture because here are people on the biggest podcast or one of the biggest podcasts in the world still saying we should be leading in this bro science optimization category.
[00:23:34.520 --> 00:23:39.080] Meanwhile, we're bleeding out in public health.
[00:23:39.080 --> 00:23:39.560] Totally.
[00:23:39.560 --> 00:23:53.800] Where the health of people, most of the majority of who can't afford these wellness, fitness accoutrements to gain an inf off some game that they want to try to enhance themselves for.
[00:23:54.120 --> 00:23:56.440] It's just so culturally telling.
[00:23:56.440 --> 00:23:56.680] Yeah.
[00:23:56.680 --> 00:23:56.920] Yeah.
[00:23:56.920 --> 00:24:15.960] And another thing that's really telling is that not only are they sort of angling for these different audiences, including like wellness people and optimizers, but then they pivot towards pitching to the pharmaceutical companies, which, you know, maybe a couple of years ago would have seemed unlikely, but no, this is all hand in glove right now.
[00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:30.120] So the argument here is that GLP-1 inhibitors, which they correctly point out, to some extent are used as an optional synthetic life enhancement drug, are actually valued at a trillion dollars.
[00:24:30.120 --> 00:24:34.520] And that's five times the valuation of all AI, according to DeSouza.
[00:24:34.520 --> 00:24:36.760] I haven't looked that up to see if it's right.
[00:24:36.760 --> 00:24:46.480] So you've got this complex mix of libertarian, capitalist, transhumanist, even rationalist arguments being made, but also hitting the contrarian alternative medicine demographic.
[00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:48.640] It's all part of the strategy.
[00:24:44.920 --> 00:24:52.080] And I have to say now, Derek, this one had me like do a double take.
[00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:59.840] Nothing lets you know you're in the alternative medicine camp more effectively than referencing the Flexner report.
[00:24:59.840 --> 00:25:00.560] Ah, fuck.
[00:25:00.560 --> 00:25:02.800] Do you know what the legal definition of medicine is?
[00:25:02.800 --> 00:25:03.680] No, I do not.
[00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:04.720] So it's a fascinating thing.
[00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:06.160] I only learned it a couple weeks ago.
[00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:18.400] So in the 1920s, the Carnegie Foundation commissioned a sociologist from Johns Hopkins University, Professor Albert Flexner, to go and study medical education.
[00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:22.000] And so it used to be back then that anyone could call themselves a doctor.
[00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:22.640] Really?
[00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:22.880] Yeah.
[00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:23.120] Yeah.
[00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:24.560] I missed the boat.
[00:25:24.560 --> 00:25:24.720] Yeah.
[00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:27.520] Anyone could just read some books and call yourself a doctor.
[00:25:27.840 --> 00:25:39.920] And after the Flexner report, it was decided by state legislatures that we had to regulate what it meant to be a doctor and what medical education was required.
[00:25:39.920 --> 00:25:46.480] And the definition of medicine as a result of that is that medicine is about the treatment and cure of disease.
[00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:49.120] It's making sick people less sick.
[00:25:49.760 --> 00:25:50.320] Right?
[00:25:50.320 --> 00:25:58.720] And if you walk into your doctor and you say, I'm a healthy 39-year-old, but I'd like to be extraordinary, he would say, I'm sorry.
[00:25:59.040 --> 00:26:01.920] Medicine legally cannot help you.
[00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:08.880] He just learned about this a couple of weeks ago, but it's probably another thing he's been studying his whole life, and he's ready to just illuminate us.
[00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:11.120] First off, Carnegie, not Carnegie.
[00:26:11.120 --> 00:26:12.640] So all of us mispronounce words.
[00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:13.840] So that's fine.
[00:26:13.840 --> 00:26:15.520] I understood what he was saying.
[00:26:15.840 --> 00:26:18.960] Just to go backtrack a moment before we get into this.
[00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:25.680] The global market for GLP-1 inhibitors is currently valued at $53.5 billion.
[00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:29.200] It's expected to go to $62 billion this year.
[00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:35.800] So the trillion-dollar, well, as we're going to get into now, DeSuesa doesn't really know what the fuck he's talking about.
[00:26:36.120 --> 00:26:42.120] So I've heard the Flexner story butchered numerous times by RFK Jr.
[00:26:42.280 --> 00:26:46.200] and his supplement salesman advisor, Callie Means.
[00:26:46.200 --> 00:26:51.240] DeSuza also gets many of this history wrong.
[00:26:51.240 --> 00:26:54.680] So I do want to break it down here because I think it's relevant.
[00:26:54.680 --> 00:26:57.080] Flexner was not a sociologist.
[00:26:57.080 --> 00:27:00.360] He studied the classics at Johns Hopkins for two years.
[00:27:00.360 --> 00:27:05.560] He then pursued psychology at Harvard and the University of Berlin, but he never got a degree there.
[00:27:05.560 --> 00:27:07.640] Callie Means always says he's a lawyer.
[00:27:07.640 --> 00:27:09.160] He wasn't a lawyer either.
[00:27:09.160 --> 00:27:12.440] He's considered a medical education reformer.
[00:27:12.440 --> 00:27:16.920] He did do some sociological field work, but that was not his title.
[00:27:16.920 --> 00:27:22.360] He started that work in 1908 and published the Flexner Report in 1910.
[00:27:22.360 --> 00:27:25.640] So I don't know where the fuck he's talking about the 1920s from.
[00:27:25.640 --> 00:27:31.960] He wasn't from Johns Hopkins, but he did cite it as the ideal medical school in his report.
[00:27:31.960 --> 00:27:33.720] He wasn't a professor.
[00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:35.560] He taught at a high school.
[00:27:35.560 --> 00:27:41.320] He later opened an experimental private school, but he was not a professor, as DeSuza claims.
[00:27:41.720 --> 00:27:46.760] Du Suza is also wildly wrong with the idea that anyone can call themselves a doctor.
[00:27:46.760 --> 00:27:47.720] It's absurd.
[00:27:47.720 --> 00:27:48.520] That was great.
[00:27:48.520 --> 00:27:51.240] I recently read, I did a bonus on this book too.
[00:27:51.240 --> 00:27:54.520] It's The Social Transformation of American Medicine by Paul Starr.
[00:27:54.600 --> 00:27:55.320] Great book.
[00:27:55.320 --> 00:27:59.640] It's an exhaustive review of the history of medicine in America.
[00:27:59.640 --> 00:28:06.920] He details in great depth the struggles between competing medical schools in different states during the 19th century.
[00:28:06.920 --> 00:28:31.120] While many of the problems that we currently have with our healthcare system actually stem from the competing interests that were started back then and the fact that medical schools engaged in a race to the bottom to see who could graduate students more faster to become doctors and therefore monetize more students, which later informed who open practices were and what types of insurance incentives were possible.
[00:28:31.120 --> 00:28:34.960] This flattening of anyone can call themselves a doctor is just a fucking joke.
[00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:36.240] It's not true.
[00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:39.920] And he makes it sound like before Flexner, there was no definition.
[00:28:39.920 --> 00:28:41.200] And so anyone could just say it.
[00:28:41.200 --> 00:28:48.800] And then Flexner, the sociologist from Johns Hopkins, came along in the 1920s, all completely a stack of incorrect statements.
[00:28:48.800 --> 00:28:51.600] And he came up with this definition.
[00:28:51.600 --> 00:28:54.480] And so that's what medicine has been ever since.
[00:28:54.480 --> 00:28:58.640] And we can change that definition because we are brave contrarians, right?
[00:28:58.640 --> 00:29:00.960] Yeah, that's this is one of the things about podcasts.
[00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:08.880] I mean, you know, you and I are talking, some of this is off script, some of it's on script, but the stuff we're talking about on script, we've read about and vetted.
[00:29:09.280 --> 00:29:13.120] And people go on podcasts and they just say shit off of memory.
[00:29:13.120 --> 00:29:27.120] I just finished reading Mehdi Hassan's last book where he talks about the sort of research you should be doing before you go as a guest or as a debater or anything on in anywhere, live podcast, whatever, just to actually be prepared.
[00:29:27.120 --> 00:29:30.960] And De Suza, like, you know, you just threw out that trillion dollar number.
[00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:36.960] I'm guessing most of what he said is wrong based on what I've actually looked into from the clips that we're playing.
[00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:37.120] Yeah.
[00:29:37.120 --> 00:29:42.240] And I actually love how Meh Hassan is actually very honest about this, right?
[00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:48.720] About how you prepare, you understand who you're going to be dealing with, what their arguments are probably going to be.
[00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:53.360] You make sure that you come with facts and figures and data at your hands.
[00:29:53.360 --> 00:29:59.520] And so, I saw him doing an interview about the Jubilee appearances, which has gotten him a lot of play over the last month.
[00:29:59.520 --> 00:30:02.360] And he was very self-effacing.
[00:30:02.360 --> 00:30:03.480] He's like, Yeah, you know what?
[00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:06.600] I'm like one of these guys who crams the night before the exam.
[00:30:06.600 --> 00:30:07.880] Like, I know my stuff.
[00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:09.400] I commit it to memory.
[00:30:09.400 --> 00:30:16.680] If you ask me to repeat any of it back to you right now, I probably can't do it because that's just the nature of being of having a human brain, right?
[00:30:16.680 --> 00:30:28.440] You, you, you go back and forth in terms of like how fluent you are with stuff, and that's why you have to prepare and you have to make sure you're actually doing good sourcing and fact-checking.
[00:30:28.440 --> 00:30:37.880] So, you're being given an opportunity, you know, in this diswayze, in this instance, to have the largest platform in the world to pitch your games basically.
[00:30:38.200 --> 00:30:44.440] And you're just going to come with all this completely wrong and sometimes fabricated information.
[00:30:44.440 --> 00:30:48.920] And you notice it all trends in the direction of inflation.
[00:30:48.920 --> 00:30:50.600] So, everything is inflated.
[00:30:50.600 --> 00:30:54.280] The trillion dollars is compared to 58 billion dollars.
[00:30:54.280 --> 00:31:01.240] This ominous figure of Flexner, which is what Callie Means has been doing, creating this totally lawyer who's secretly funded.
[00:31:01.240 --> 00:31:02.600] I mean, all this shit was public.
[00:31:03.160 --> 00:31:09.640] But, but you create this picture of someone who is out to get people, which is the opposite of what was going on at the time.
[00:31:09.640 --> 00:31:15.800] Yeah, and actually, the reason why I said what I said in setting up that clip is that we have multiple of the figures we've crossed.
[00:31:15.800 --> 00:31:25.480] Most the one that jumps to mind the most for me is Christiane Northrup will reference the Flexner report as the beginning of the end of being able to trust medical science.
[00:31:25.480 --> 00:31:30.280] And what reason will a lot of these conspiratuality figures that we cover give?
[00:31:30.280 --> 00:31:41.560] Well, it started to discredit things like homeopathy and all of the practices that are bundled together under naturopathy and started to actually have scientific standards.
[00:31:41.560 --> 00:31:46.880] And so, this was somehow, you know, a conspiracy because Carnegie was behind it.
[00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:57.200] And Paul Starr writes extensively this Monday, my bonus will be about naturopathy and one of the figures on Prager U, which we're covering soon, but how they manipulate information.
[00:31:57.200 --> 00:32:01.280] So, if you're enjoying this part, I will be doing more of it on Monday.
[00:32:01.280 --> 00:32:07.280] Starr writes about the Flexner report extensively in the book as well, which is how I learned a lot about it.
[00:32:07.280 --> 00:32:13.280] And it's important to recognize that that report brought coherence to medicine in America.
[00:32:13.280 --> 00:32:26.960] And one of the biggest consequences, besides what you said, which is discrediting homeopathy and naturopathy and chiropractic, it was that it took away accreditation from universities that were running bullshit programs, right?
[00:32:26.960 --> 00:32:38.400] Now, this did have some bad downstream effects too, but overall, it started to create the system that we know today in terms of education specifically.
[00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:45.360] All that said, you might not be surprised to learn that Flexer never defined medicine as the treatment and cure of disease.
[00:32:45.360 --> 00:32:46.320] That's not a thing.
[00:32:46.320 --> 00:32:50.560] He just, that's something he just fucking made up because he probably heard it from someone somewhere.
[00:32:51.200 --> 00:32:56.000] The report actually calls for medical education to be grounded in the scientific method.
[00:32:56.000 --> 00:33:05.440] It emphasizes laboratory research and experiential hospital-based clinical training as the standard for diagnosing, understanding, and addressing disease.
[00:33:05.600 --> 00:33:06.560] Diabolical, Derek.
[00:33:06.560 --> 00:33:07.200] It's awful.
[00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:07.760] It's horrible.
[00:33:07.760 --> 00:33:08.640] It's horrible.
[00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:17.760] People like Disueza and means, they like to flatten this ambitious work, which, to be clear, wasn't, again, without its problems.
[00:33:17.760 --> 00:33:31.480] So, one of them was that because they were looking at bullshit programs, it just so happened that some of those bullshit programs were in states that were servicing minority and rural communities.
[00:33:29.840 --> 00:33:36.840] So, when the colleges were shut down, they had no access to medical education at all.
[00:33:37.160 --> 00:33:41.160] So, there was a racial component that's been rightfully criticized.
[00:33:41.400 --> 00:33:49.640] But the reason Desuza in one minute gets so much shit wrong is because he's just trying to sell supplements and apparently workout gear.
[00:33:49.640 --> 00:33:51.320] Now, we found out too.
[00:33:51.320 --> 00:34:10.280] And if you could pretend that evidence-based medicine is only about stopping disease, which is such a common trope in wellness and bro science spaces, then you can position your product as the true medicine, which is the literal tagline of Cali Means' company.
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[00:34:55.080 --> 00:34:58.680] Find your plan today at vspdirect.com.
[00:34:59.640 --> 00:35:01.720] This is the story of the one.
[00:35:01.720 --> 00:35:07.720] As a custodial supervisor at a high school, he knows that during cold and flu season, germs spread fast.
[00:35:07.720 --> 00:35:15.600] It's why he partners with Granger to stay fully stocked on the products and supplies he needs-from tissues to disinfectants to floor scrubbers.
[00:35:14.920 --> 00:35:20.160] Also, that he can help students, staff, and teachers stay healthy and focused.
[00:35:20.480 --> 00:35:24.240] Call 1-800-GRANGER, clickgranger.com, or just stop by.
[00:35:24.240 --> 00:35:27.440] Granger for the ones who get it done.

Prompt 2: Key Takeaways

Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.

Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...". 

Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive. 

IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}

Prompt 3: Segments

Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.

For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)  
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion

IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
  "segments": [
    {
      "segment_title": "Topic Discussion", 
      "timestamp": "01:15:30",
      "key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
      "segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
    }
  ]
}

Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.

Prompt 4: Media Mentions

Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:

Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)  
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)

DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names

IMPORTANT: 
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
  "media_mentions": [
    {
      "title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
      "category": "Book",
      "author_artist": "N/A",
      "context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
      "context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
      "timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
    }
  ]
}

If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}

Full Transcript

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[00:01:02.320 --> 00:01:06.000] You never know if you're ahead of the curve.
[00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:12.480] I mean, Julian, on last week's episode, we talked about you being way ahead on the celebrity Lyme disease.
[00:01:12.480 --> 00:01:13.120] Absolutely.
[00:01:13.120 --> 00:01:31.600] But let's talk about cycling legend Lance Armstrong for a minute because he became a cultural punchline when it was revealed that he was doping during his seven Tour de France wins when he was using EPO, human growth hormone, testosterone, corticosteroids, blood transfusions, and masking agents.
[00:01:31.600 --> 00:01:36.720] Ever since, he's tried to stage comebacks to varying degrees of success.
[00:01:36.720 --> 00:01:38.640] He does retain a solid fan base.
[00:01:38.640 --> 00:01:41.520] He has 603,000 Instagram followers.
[00:01:41.520 --> 00:01:42.480] Couldn't cancel him.
[00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:45.920] No, no, he gets trolled pretty regularly, though, I will say.
[00:01:46.080 --> 00:01:54.960] He did weigh in on the trans athletes thing a few months ago, I noticed, but the overwhelming sentiment in that one was like, hey, buddy, send this one out, okay?
[00:01:54.960 --> 00:01:58.320] Lance Armstrong is an advocate for fairness in sports.
[00:01:58.640 --> 00:02:05.000] Well, that's what we're getting to because lately the 53-year-old cyclist has been posting more workout content.
[00:02:05.320 --> 00:02:13.160] He has a bunch of videos of him shirtless doing sled poles and kettlebell farmers carries and yeah, some cycling videos.
[00:02:13.160 --> 00:02:27.720] He did announce in 2024, so this is pretty early on where we're going today, that he's going to be competing in the Enhanced Games, which is a Silicon Valley invention that aims to be the Olympics for dopers.
[00:02:28.040 --> 00:02:28.760] That's right.
[00:02:28.760 --> 00:02:40.120] You probably heard about that, about this event, and it's going to be held in Las Vegas in May 2026, where anything and everything is on the table.
[00:02:40.120 --> 00:02:47.400] We're going to be talking about the games today, but there's two real ironies to Armstrong's participation.
[00:02:47.400 --> 00:02:54.680] First, there is no cycling competition in it, so he's planning on competing in track and field.
[00:02:54.680 --> 00:03:02.840] Second, Lance has promised to not take any performance and enhancement drugs leading up to or during the event.
[00:03:02.840 --> 00:03:05.720] Let's actually, Jillian, can you read his announcement post?
[00:03:06.600 --> 00:03:15.080] I know it sounds strange that I'm going to games where doping is legal, but just because you can do something doesn't mean you have to do it.
[00:03:15.080 --> 00:03:20.440] There's no way I will take anything illegal before or during the event.
[00:03:20.440 --> 00:03:25.160] The only substance I will bring is a six-pack of Shinerbach.
[00:03:25.160 --> 00:03:27.960] Okay, I mean, Sheinerbach's a mid-level lager.
[00:03:27.960 --> 00:03:28.680] You know, fine.
[00:03:28.680 --> 00:03:32.360] You know, I'm not going to hate on you, but you could have at least chosen a better lager.
[00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:39.720] But I'm going to guess he's hoping that taking a contrarian approach here will help to elevate his profile.
[00:03:39.720 --> 00:03:44.360] Whereas before going against regulations tanked his career, who the fuck knows?
[00:03:44.360 --> 00:03:48.080] I've stopped trying to make sense of people we cover on this podcast.
[00:03:48.400 --> 00:03:58.400] What is certain is that other athletes are definitely going to be taking whatever might give them an edge, as per the founders and the funders' hopes.
[00:03:58.720 --> 00:04:00.080] All right, let's get into this.
[00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:01.200] I'm Derek Barris.
[00:04:01.200 --> 00:04:02.320] I'm Julian Walker.
[00:04:02.320 --> 00:04:05.520] You are listening to a conspiratuality brief.
[00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:07.520] We do these every Saturday.
[00:04:07.520 --> 00:04:11.920] As always, you can find us on Instagram and threads at conspirituality pod.
[00:04:11.920 --> 00:04:14.560] We are also all individually on Blue Sky.
[00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:28.080] And if you are able to support us as we are independent media, you can do so at patreon.com/slash conspiratuality or via Apple Podcasts, where you can access our Monday bonus episodes.
[00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:33.040] Back to the funders.
[00:04:33.040 --> 00:04:40.480] One of them is Peter Teal, who's probably first to mind for many people when thinking of athletes.
[00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:56.400] Of course, I'm being sarcastic, but the odd thing about the entire founding team is that none of them are athletes or even care that much about sports, which leads us to the most fascinating and mind-numbing aspect of this entire story.
[00:04:56.400 --> 00:04:59.760] And it's in large part why we're covering it on this podcast.
[00:04:59.760 --> 00:05:03.280] The entire thing seems to be a supplements grift.
[00:05:03.280 --> 00:05:04.080] Come on.
[00:05:04.080 --> 00:05:04.400] All right.
[00:05:04.400 --> 00:05:11.040] So, Amit Katwala, he spent a long time writing an extensive feature on the game for Wired magazines.
[00:05:11.040 --> 00:05:11.840] It's fantastic.
[00:05:11.840 --> 00:05:13.280] I've included it in the show notes.
[00:05:13.760 --> 00:05:15.600] He does the reverse of what we're doing.
[00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:18.160] He reveals this at the end of the article.
[00:05:18.160 --> 00:05:20.480] And when he does, it just punched me in the gut.
[00:05:20.480 --> 00:05:28.400] So, to preempt the clips that we're going to play, here he's talking about the Enhanced Games founder, Aaron DeSueza.
[00:05:28.400 --> 00:05:39.640] All through my reporting, I've been struggling to understand what was in it for the investors, why billionaires with no interest in sport were so interested in disrupting it.
[00:05:39.640 --> 00:05:53.400] Toward the end of the presentation in Vegas, it all clicked into place when DeSouza announced the launch of Enhanced Performance Products, a new line of supplements inspired by the ones athletes will be taking to prepare for the games.
[00:05:53.400 --> 00:05:58.840] This pill helped me run 100 meters in nine seconds, and now you can buy it too.
[00:05:58.840 --> 00:06:02.840] The model isn't the Olympics or the World Cup, it's Red Bull.
[00:06:02.840 --> 00:06:05.000] It's just utterly fascinating, you know.
[00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:06.120] And think about Red Bull.
[00:06:06.360 --> 00:06:10.840] I've never actually drank it, I've taken a sip once, which made me never want to drink it.
[00:06:10.840 --> 00:06:13.400] They're a company that actually does amazing content.
[00:06:13.400 --> 00:06:25.960] I still follow them online because just the ridiculousness of what these athletes do, but it's a bit different because they're always doing things that are pushing the boundaries, but they're not leading with, hey, let's dope and do this.
[00:06:26.280 --> 00:06:30.920] They're leading with fantastic athletes, and then they sell a shitty drink on the side.
[00:06:30.920 --> 00:06:37.320] This seems to be sort of reverse engineering, although they're presenting it as if they're doing the same process as Red Bull.
[00:06:37.320 --> 00:06:39.080] Let's step back for some context.
[00:06:39.080 --> 00:06:45.480] DeSuza, he's an Australian native who went to the University of Oxford to study law in 2009.
[00:06:45.480 --> 00:06:47.240] And then a friend was coming into town.
[00:06:47.240 --> 00:06:49.720] He said, Hey, can you throw, can you show my friend around?
[00:06:49.720 --> 00:06:52.200] Can you take us, you know, just lead us around as a tourist?
[00:06:52.520 --> 00:06:55.480] That friend happened to be Peter Teal.
[00:06:55.800 --> 00:07:02.760] Open AI CEO Sam Altman later said that DeSuesa is, quote, obsessed with status and powder.
[00:07:02.760 --> 00:07:03.320] Power?
[00:07:03.640 --> 00:07:07.720] So, during those early meetings, we're getting there.
[00:07:07.720 --> 00:07:15.680] So, during those early meetings with Teal, the law student devised a plan to help him get revenge on Gawker for outing him as gay.
[00:07:14.840 --> 00:07:22.320] So, this entire whole Kogan thing that brought down Gawker was devised by the founder of Enhanced Games.
[00:07:22.880 --> 00:07:32.080] Since that time, he followed the only logical path open to him, which was to become a Silicon Valley capitalist and entrepreneur.
[00:07:32.080 --> 00:07:34.000] I have not heard anyone say his name.
[00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:36.080] I hear you saying Desuza.
[00:07:36.080 --> 00:07:39.760] I grew up with a lot of people who had this name, and it was D'Souza.
[00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:43.120] Are you saying it based on having heard people say it?
[00:07:43.280 --> 00:07:47.040] No, I regularly mispronounce things, but I've heard Desuza before.
[00:07:47.040 --> 00:07:58.800] Okay, people have commented on my saying Theranos instead of Theranos, which actually is a glitch in my brain because whenever I think of Theranos, I think of Thanos as the ultimate evil, and it just stuck.
[00:07:58.800 --> 00:07:59.200] Yes, it is.
[00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:01.120] So, you know what?
[00:08:01.120 --> 00:08:02.640] We're going to be saying it differently.
[00:08:02.880 --> 00:08:09.280] Let's just say Desuza together, and we'll just own it and just go right into whatever backlash we get.
[00:08:09.280 --> 00:08:10.560] Or we could go into D'Souza.
[00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:12.560] I'm fine with that now that you've opened it up.
[00:08:12.560 --> 00:08:13.200] Okay.
[00:08:13.200 --> 00:08:14.160] All right, cool.
[00:08:14.160 --> 00:08:18.320] So, yeah, for listeners, you should know that I regularly mispronounce things.
[00:08:18.320 --> 00:08:20.640] So, I'm sorry and deal with it.
[00:08:20.640 --> 00:08:25.200] Okay, so let's hear D'Souza telling Joe Rogan why he started.
[00:08:25.200 --> 00:08:26.640] Did I say Rogan right?
[00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:30.240] Why he started Rogan.
[00:08:30.240 --> 00:08:32.160] Okay, why he started the enhanced games.
[00:08:32.160 --> 00:08:35.680] I've been studying the Olympics and the Olympic movement my entire life.
[00:08:35.680 --> 00:08:39.680] You know, I'm 39 years old when I was an undergraduate at university.
[00:08:39.680 --> 00:08:44.640] It was just after the Sydney Olympics, and you know, it was always something that inspired me.
[00:08:44.640 --> 00:08:55.680] And I thought to myself, you know, I learned some key statistics: 44% of Olympians admit to using banned performance-enhancing drugs within the last year, according to research commissioned by the World Antidemy.
[00:08:55.840 --> 00:08:56.560] 44%.
[00:08:56.560 --> 00:08:57.360] 44%.
[00:08:57.360 --> 00:08:59.640] And the other, you know, probably lying.
[00:08:59.280 --> 00:09:00.600] Are losing.
[00:08:59.360 --> 00:09:01.640] Exactly.
[00:09:02.280 --> 00:09:08.760] And so, you know, and then I learned that the average American Olympian only earns $30,000 a year.
[00:09:08.760 --> 00:09:11.880] And I thought to myself, there's something really wrong in the system.
[00:09:11.880 --> 00:09:20.840] And instead of trying to reform it, let's take a blank slate of paper and invent the third Olympia ad from scratch.
[00:09:21.240 --> 00:09:32.040] Well, the Olympics is kind of a scam because it generates billions of dollars in revenue, and the people that are there to perform make almost none of that.
[00:09:32.040 --> 00:09:32.680] That's correct.
[00:09:33.160 --> 00:09:37.000] Actually, the International Olympic Committee doesn't pay any of the athletes.
[00:09:37.400 --> 00:09:42.040] Incidentally, they may get some money in sponsorship or from their National Olympic Committee.
[00:09:42.040 --> 00:09:48.120] But ultimately, the billions of dollars in revenue come into the Olympics, and none of that goes to the athletes.
[00:09:48.120 --> 00:09:50.040] It gets wasted building stadiums.
[00:09:50.040 --> 00:09:52.760] It gets wasted paying officials.
[00:09:52.760 --> 00:10:00.680] And we thought there's a way to do a better, more honest model that inspires us to believe in the future of science and technology in the 21st century.
[00:10:00.680 --> 00:10:09.080] I just always find it fascinating when someone leads by saying, I'm 39 years old, and I've been studying the Olympics my entire life.
[00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:11.880] And it's like the guy's not even in academia, right?
[00:10:11.880 --> 00:10:15.000] He's just like, I've been around the block and I know a few things.
[00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:18.280] In fact, I learned these two statistics that I'm going to drop on you right now.
[00:10:18.280 --> 00:10:20.120] I have to say, I did not fact-check those.
[00:10:20.120 --> 00:10:26.120] You're going to hear later from some of the clips you chose, Julian, that I go hard because he gets a lot of shit wrong.
[00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:27.240] Those I let go.
[00:10:27.240 --> 00:10:31.880] And I actually appreciated Rogan's comment there about the Olympics and not paying athletes.
[00:10:31.880 --> 00:10:33.480] It reminds me of like college athletics.
[00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:35.080] Like, he's absolutely right on that.
[00:10:35.080 --> 00:10:42.920] But I find DeSuza's argument there disingenuous for two main reasons, both of which I learned about the Wired article.
[00:10:42.920 --> 00:10:46.000] As I said, we know the founders don't really care about sports.
[00:10:44.840 --> 00:10:50.960] So this romanticized notion I've been the Olympics fan is likely bullshit.
[00:10:51.600 --> 00:10:56.400] We know it's not about paying athletes for their own good as well.
[00:10:56.400 --> 00:10:58.160] And that's really the important part here.
[00:10:58.160 --> 00:11:05.200] But it's to say, hey, look at these highly paid athletes now buy what they're on.
[00:11:05.200 --> 00:11:08.640] So my bullshit detector went off during that clip.
[00:11:08.640 --> 00:11:09.360] Yeah, yeah.
[00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:22.560] In a little bit, I'll go into like the multiple angles that they take because I think this is actually a very carefully rehearsed and prepared way of trying to pitch essentially what they're selling to Joe Rogan and his audience.
[00:11:22.560 --> 00:11:27.200] For the whole of the interview, D'Souza is really doing this canned sales pitch.
[00:11:27.200 --> 00:11:28.560] He's got all the angles covered.
[00:11:28.560 --> 00:11:42.560] He starts in this clip that I'm about to play by suggesting that both natural athletes and those natural athletes who've won the genetic lottery and those who are enhanced could compete side by side and it'll make great TV.
[00:11:42.560 --> 00:11:43.760] And then notice where he ends up.
[00:11:43.920 --> 00:11:47.440] Well, so number one, you don't have to take enhancements to be at the enhanced games.
[00:11:47.440 --> 00:11:48.240] You can just be a regular person.
[00:11:48.320 --> 00:11:48.880] You can be a regular person.
[00:11:49.520 --> 00:11:49.840] Yeah, yeah.
[00:11:49.840 --> 00:11:53.520] You can say, hey, I won the genetic lottery, right?
[00:11:53.520 --> 00:11:56.960] And I think I can beat all the enhanced athletes and make great television.
[00:11:56.960 --> 00:11:58.160] Yeah, that's fun too, right?
[00:11:58.160 --> 00:11:58.480] Yeah.
[00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:08.080] And so, you know, if you believe you've won the genetic lottery and you think you can show up and break a world record and get a million bucks, they'll come and do it, right?
[00:12:08.080 --> 00:12:09.280] And do it naturally.
[00:12:09.520 --> 00:12:15.920] And then some say, you know, I did not win the genetic lottery and I want the chance to be the Neil Armstrong of our generation.
[00:12:17.760 --> 00:12:18.720] This is how I think of it.
[00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:22.000] I think we're building the Apollo mission for the 21st century.
[00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:23.760] You know, what did the Apollo mission do?
[00:12:23.760 --> 00:12:28.320] It showed us that we were so much more capable as a human species, right?
[00:12:28.560 --> 00:12:34.120] We hit a new threshold going to the moon using science and technology to overcome our limits.
[00:12:29.760 --> 00:12:36.200] This is exactly what the Enhanced Games is about.
[00:12:37.720 --> 00:12:39.400] Sword, you're not going to the moon.
[00:12:39.400 --> 00:12:40.200] Let's be serious.
[00:12:40.520 --> 00:12:41.240] It's going to be cool.
[00:12:41.640 --> 00:12:42.600] That's very bad.
[00:12:42.680 --> 00:12:46.120] You're just getting a bunch of guys juiced up, running really fast.
[00:12:46.120 --> 00:12:46.920] Big difference.
[00:12:46.920 --> 00:12:48.440] But still make history.
[00:12:49.160 --> 00:12:52.280] I would say breaking a world record is a thing.
[00:12:52.280 --> 00:12:57.000] Maybe not going to the moon, but like it's something people aspire to do.
[00:12:57.000 --> 00:12:57.480] Yeah.
[00:12:57.480 --> 00:13:01.480] I know Rogan gets so much shit, and we've given him a lot of shit for good reason.
[00:13:01.480 --> 00:13:14.120] He's platformed a lot of nonsense, but you have to understand this is also what draws people in because when he hears shit like this about things that he knows and the world, the waters he swims in, he's not afraid to be like, what the fuck are you talking about?
[00:13:15.400 --> 00:13:18.520] He goes, he goes, you're not going to the moon.
[00:13:18.520 --> 00:13:22.040] And then DeSuzu's reaction is, well, it's going to be cool.
[00:13:22.920 --> 00:13:26.040] I also have to say, the timing couldn't be more perfect for this.
[00:13:26.040 --> 00:13:33.000] It just shows you, it's a snapshot in where America is right now, because in May, you have this going on.
[00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:43.800] And in July, to celebrate the 250th anniversary of the founding of fucking America, Dana White is going to be doing a UFC fucking cage match at the White House for the celebration.
[00:13:44.120 --> 00:13:48.680] And I'm sure Rogan's going to be commentating on that.
[00:13:48.680 --> 00:13:49.320] Absolutely.
[00:13:49.320 --> 00:13:49.960] Yeah.
[00:13:49.960 --> 00:13:52.360] So this is as crazy.
[00:13:52.360 --> 00:14:09.080] And as much as we're laughing and fuck off to all of this about putting people's lives in dangers to shave a hundredths of a second off of a world record to sell supplements, it really does give you insight into where we are in this culture.
[00:14:09.080 --> 00:14:09.400] Yeah.
[00:14:09.400 --> 00:14:15.200] And that Peter Thiel and his VC buddies are like, yes, that, that's where I'm going to put my money.
[00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:15.360] Right.
[00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:17.360] And there's been a lot of great reporting recently.
[00:14:17.520 --> 00:14:28.240] Like More Perfect Union did a piece talking to an ex-Palantir employee who kind of breaks down what goes on inside of that business, which is just making billions of dollars right now.
[00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:46.080] And you have this world where the same people who are funding the defense machinery, which are creating genocides and fucking surveillance tech and all this shit, is also on the other side leading the entertainment charge by funding these sorts of endeavors.
[00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:47.680] It's really malicious.
[00:14:47.680 --> 00:14:48.000] All right.
[00:14:48.000 --> 00:15:01.440] So I don't know about you, Derek, but I just was waiting to see if a certain anti-vax but pro-testosterone replacement therapy figure would eventually show up in this conversation.
[00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:14.080] The same compounds that allow individual athletes to run faster and jump higher are the ones that will allow us to be younger, faster, and stronger for longer.
[00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:18.880] And, you know, I think that's a very admirable aspiration.
[00:15:18.880 --> 00:15:20.000] You know, look at Robert F.
[00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:20.800] Kennedy Jr.
[00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:25.280] You know, he's doing pull-ups when Joe Biden and Donald Trump can hardly walk up a flight of stairs.
[00:15:25.280 --> 00:15:25.760] Yeah.
[00:15:25.760 --> 00:15:27.920] And he's very openly enhanced.
[00:15:27.920 --> 00:15:31.680] Yeah, openly enhanced and works out with jeans on, which is odd, right?
[00:15:32.400 --> 00:15:33.760] Jeans thing is so weird.
[00:15:33.760 --> 00:15:34.960] Like, what are you doing, man?
[00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:47.120] I was at the gym yesterday morning working out, and an older gentleman, I would put him about an 80, was in there, but he was wearing jeans and a button-down shirt, like a proper dress shirt, doing like sweating and working out.
[00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:48.800] And I was like, it hit me in my head.
[00:15:48.800 --> 00:15:53.920] I'm like, Kennedy could actually probably launch a fitness line at this point of workout jeans.
[00:15:53.920 --> 00:15:56.720] And I'm sure a lot of people would start buying them.
[00:15:56.720 --> 00:16:03.480] I used to have a student who took my yoga class straight from his finance job on Wall Street where he'd wear a button down and slacks.
[00:16:03.800 --> 00:16:09.960] And the first time he came into my class, I went over and I was like, hey, you know, I know you ran in, but if you want to change and then come back, it's cool.
[00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:11.080] And he was like, no.
[00:16:11.400 --> 00:16:14.040] And I never again said anything to him.
[00:16:14.040 --> 00:16:15.240] I'm like, okay, you do you.
[00:16:15.240 --> 00:16:17.080] And he kept coming back and wearing slacks.
[00:16:17.080 --> 00:16:19.560] So it happens.
[00:16:19.560 --> 00:16:25.880] But to go back to that bullshit, comparing Trump with Biden here, Biden works out five days a week.
[00:16:25.880 --> 00:16:28.760] He incorporates cardio and strength training into a routine.
[00:16:28.760 --> 00:16:30.520] He uses a personal trainer.
[00:16:30.520 --> 00:16:32.840] He cycles on stationary and real bikes.
[00:16:32.840 --> 00:16:35.400] But dude fell off his bike one time.
[00:16:35.720 --> 00:16:40.920] Something that, you know, I'm not quite half of his age, but that happens as cyclists.
[00:16:40.920 --> 00:16:41.880] It's happened to me.
[00:16:42.200 --> 00:16:46.360] And the right did so much media on the fact that he happened to fall off his bike.
[00:16:46.360 --> 00:16:56.920] He's an older man fighting cognitive decline, and he's doing the exact thing all the fitness bro podcasters say we should be doing as we age.
[00:16:56.920 --> 00:17:08.360] But because he's not on TRT like Kennedy and doesn't look enhanced, they equate him, which they equate him with Trump, who infamously once claimed he doesn't work out because the body is like a battery.
[00:17:08.360 --> 00:17:11.560] And once you use up all the energy, it's gone forever.
[00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:21.320] These men are not the same, but it does give you insight into the poorly hidden vulnerabilities men like Rogan and DeSuza battle internally.
[00:17:21.320 --> 00:17:26.360] If you don't look Jack, you aren't doing enough, no matter how healthy you actually are.
[00:17:26.360 --> 00:17:27.800] It's all about appearances.
[00:17:27.800 --> 00:17:29.480] It's not actually about health.
[00:17:29.480 --> 00:17:30.600] Yeah, very well said.
[00:17:30.600 --> 00:17:33.080] Those comparisons are super telling.
[00:17:33.080 --> 00:17:35.880] And I don't know if you want to hold up RFK Jr.
[00:17:35.960 --> 00:17:39.000] as kind of a paragon of graceful aging.
[00:17:39.320 --> 00:17:55.280] No, Will Matthew made the comment about his jerky skin the other day, which is just so, and also, I don't know if you noticed, but on his Twitter feed, using his HHS feed the other day, he posted himself in jeans in a gym, talking about when he travels, he always visits gyms and works out.
[00:17:55.280 --> 00:17:59.840] It was like his little, his little moment to be like, I'm doing this.
[00:17:59.840 --> 00:18:03.680] And again, this is not to say, like, I work out incessantly.
[00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:18.640] Like, I think working out is really important, but the optics of this, somebody of that age who is on something, on a few things, to show that to pretend that that's what everyone can achieve just by going to the gym is utter bullshit.
[00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:22.160] Yeah, yeah, he's the role model for making America healthy again.
[00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:25.760] So, this discussion takes a lot of twists and turns.
[00:18:26.080 --> 00:18:28.240] It feels, as I said before, very well rehearsed.
[00:18:28.240 --> 00:18:30.080] It feels tailored to Rogan's audience.
[00:18:30.080 --> 00:18:32.560] So, as you pointed out, Derek, the Olympics are a scam.
[00:18:32.560 --> 00:18:34.080] They're environmentally wasteful.
[00:18:34.080 --> 00:18:38.160] We can do it all online and streaming without building all of those single-use stadiums.
[00:18:38.560 --> 00:18:39.680] Fair comment.
[00:18:39.680 --> 00:18:46.480] It's ruled over by a group of aristocratic elites, and it's dishonest because everyone is actually on steroids.
[00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:48.320] And then they go into psychedelics.
[00:18:48.320 --> 00:18:52.000] Psychedelics actually are statistically safe.
[00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:55.120] I'm sure it's going to be selling those too.
[00:18:55.120 --> 00:18:56.960] I'm pretty positive.
[00:18:56.960 --> 00:19:01.200] But people have an irrational cultural fear about psychedelics.
[00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:07.760] Meanwhile, alcohol has incredibly bad outcomes at high statistical rates, yet it's widely culturally accepted and you can see it everywhere.
[00:19:07.760 --> 00:19:20.480] I mean, they're not wrong, but this becomes a way of suggesting that steroids are not really so dangerous either, especially when done with high levels of medical supervision, which is what they claim to have as part of their model.
[00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:34.040] Now, beyond the dangers of alcohol, there's a couple times in this interview where they make statements about how processed foods and sugar are even more normalized and they're the most dangerous drugs of our time.
[00:19:29.840 --> 00:19:35.560] So, again, shout out to Maha.
[00:19:35.880 --> 00:19:38.600] Except if the real sugar is in Coke, yeah, exactly.
[00:19:38.680 --> 00:19:39.400] That's fine.
[00:19:39.400 --> 00:19:47.000] Yeah, well, because your body knows how to break that down in a way that it can't do with what is it, highly frozen corn syrup.
[00:19:48.120 --> 00:19:53.640] That's actually what's that's what's causing obesity and diabetes, right?
[00:19:53.960 --> 00:20:07.000] And then they mock how in the early 90s, there was this hysteria about creatine as a dangerous new PED, and that Olympians would be encouraging children to take it if creatine was not banned for competition.
[00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:10.600] And we knew that that was wrong, so therefore, steroids must be okay, right?
[00:20:10.600 --> 00:20:14.680] But you know, that's a good point because I take creatine daily.
[00:20:14.920 --> 00:20:21.720] Creatine is one of the most studied supplements now in this optimization workout world.
[00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:24.920] Yeah, and that's that's how science worked.
[00:20:24.920 --> 00:20:31.720] When there wasn't a lot of data on it, there was some fear-mongering around it, and that makes sense because people didn't know.
[00:20:31.720 --> 00:20:41.560] Now that it has been extensively studied, we've seen that it works for you know limited reasons.
[00:20:41.560 --> 00:20:45.560] And then people update their understanding of the science.
[00:20:45.560 --> 00:20:51.080] That does not mean steroids, which have also been studied, are safe because of that.
[00:20:51.080 --> 00:20:58.920] It's not like decades down the road, we're going to be like, oh, wow, juicing actually didn't shake your testicles or make you lose your hair or give you fucking roid rage.
[00:20:58.920 --> 00:21:02.440] Yeah, yeah, no, they're the Galileos of steroids.
[00:21:02.440 --> 00:21:10.880] And now, I should just add that if you go to creatine.com using the code ConspiraBros50, you can get 50% off.
[00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:14.440] Conspirate Bros.
[00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:18.000] Most of our listeners are women, though, Julian.
[00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:20.000] You should have created a better discount code.
[00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:20.960] Jesus, man.
[00:21:21.600 --> 00:21:23.280] I'll work on it for next time.
[00:21:23.280 --> 00:21:29.600] So, another argument they make, which again, you can see they're doing their song and dance here to try to appeal to all the right people.
[00:21:29.600 --> 00:21:34.320] They are pro-bodily autonomy for adults.
[00:21:34.320 --> 00:21:36.800] So, therefore, people should be able to use.
[00:21:36.800 --> 00:21:38.640] It's a libertarian argument, essentially, right?
[00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:41.760] If you want to use steroids, you should be able to, regardless of the medical risks.
[00:21:41.760 --> 00:21:47.440] That's a really fascinating one, though, because if you think about that culturally, this is the biggest argument.
[00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:49.920] So, let's just actually think about that.
[00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:56.000] Increased steroid usage, we know, can create more violence in men.
[00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:57.760] Reid rage is a real thing.
[00:21:57.760 --> 00:21:58.320] Oh, yeah.
[00:21:58.320 --> 00:22:10.720] So, you are saying, give me this bodily autonomy that increases my risk of actually starting fights, possibly with my wife or domestic partner, which has been documented before.
[00:22:10.720 --> 00:22:23.200] So, every time I hear this bodily autonomy about the individual thing, it's never considered who in that environment that they're in might be affected by that decision.
[00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:28.720] Yeah, it strikes me as being somewhat adjacent to some Second Amendment arguments, right?
[00:22:29.040 --> 00:22:29.840] Very much so.
[00:22:29.840 --> 00:22:30.720] So, it's my right.
[00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:31.840] It's my freedom.
[00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:33.200] I'm protecting myself.
[00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:41.200] It's like, yeah, but what about all the people who are at risk as a result of everyone having access to every kind of gun all the time?
[00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:45.840] They say we should be leading the world in the scientific advancement of human performance.
[00:22:45.840 --> 00:22:55.760] And this can open up whole new markets for life enhancement for non-athletes, as they were just saying with RFK Jr., as well as for endorsements from athletic gear companies.
[00:22:55.760 --> 00:23:00.000] They're just pitching this shit right on the show who want to be associated with real progress.
[00:23:00.200 --> 00:23:07.560] He's like, yeah, so Nike endorses the Olympics because they're like the fastest people in the world wear our shoes.
[00:23:07.560 --> 00:23:08.840] So you should as well.
[00:23:08.840 --> 00:23:19.080] Well, that means there's an opening for the Enhanced Games to have an endorsement from a shoe company who could then one-up Nike because actually their athletes are the fastest in the world.
[00:23:19.320 --> 00:23:34.520] You know, that is so, again, indicative of where we are as a culture because here are people on the biggest podcast or one of the biggest podcasts in the world still saying we should be leading in this bro science optimization category.
[00:23:34.520 --> 00:23:39.080] Meanwhile, we're bleeding out in public health.
[00:23:39.080 --> 00:23:39.560] Totally.
[00:23:39.560 --> 00:23:53.800] Where the health of people, most of the majority of who can't afford these wellness, fitness accoutrements to gain an inf off some game that they want to try to enhance themselves for.
[00:23:54.120 --> 00:23:56.440] It's just so culturally telling.
[00:23:56.440 --> 00:23:56.680] Yeah.
[00:23:56.680 --> 00:23:56.920] Yeah.
[00:23:56.920 --> 00:24:15.960] And another thing that's really telling is that not only are they sort of angling for these different audiences, including like wellness people and optimizers, but then they pivot towards pitching to the pharmaceutical companies, which, you know, maybe a couple of years ago would have seemed unlikely, but no, this is all hand in glove right now.
[00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:30.120] So the argument here is that GLP-1 inhibitors, which they correctly point out, to some extent are used as an optional synthetic life enhancement drug, are actually valued at a trillion dollars.
[00:24:30.120 --> 00:24:34.520] And that's five times the valuation of all AI, according to DeSouza.
[00:24:34.520 --> 00:24:36.760] I haven't looked that up to see if it's right.
[00:24:36.760 --> 00:24:46.480] So you've got this complex mix of libertarian, capitalist, transhumanist, even rationalist arguments being made, but also hitting the contrarian alternative medicine demographic.
[00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:48.640] It's all part of the strategy.
[00:24:44.920 --> 00:24:52.080] And I have to say now, Derek, this one had me like do a double take.
[00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:59.840] Nothing lets you know you're in the alternative medicine camp more effectively than referencing the Flexner report.
[00:24:59.840 --> 00:25:00.560] Ah, fuck.
[00:25:00.560 --> 00:25:02.800] Do you know what the legal definition of medicine is?
[00:25:02.800 --> 00:25:03.680] No, I do not.
[00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:04.720] So it's a fascinating thing.
[00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:06.160] I only learned it a couple weeks ago.
[00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:18.400] So in the 1920s, the Carnegie Foundation commissioned a sociologist from Johns Hopkins University, Professor Albert Flexner, to go and study medical education.
[00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:22.000] And so it used to be back then that anyone could call themselves a doctor.
[00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:22.640] Really?
[00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:22.880] Yeah.
[00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:23.120] Yeah.
[00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:24.560] I missed the boat.
[00:25:24.560 --> 00:25:24.720] Yeah.
[00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:27.520] Anyone could just read some books and call yourself a doctor.
[00:25:27.840 --> 00:25:39.920] And after the Flexner report, it was decided by state legislatures that we had to regulate what it meant to be a doctor and what medical education was required.
[00:25:39.920 --> 00:25:46.480] And the definition of medicine as a result of that is that medicine is about the treatment and cure of disease.
[00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:49.120] It's making sick people less sick.
[00:25:49.760 --> 00:25:50.320] Right?
[00:25:50.320 --> 00:25:58.720] And if you walk into your doctor and you say, I'm a healthy 39-year-old, but I'd like to be extraordinary, he would say, I'm sorry.
[00:25:59.040 --> 00:26:01.920] Medicine legally cannot help you.
[00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:08.880] He just learned about this a couple of weeks ago, but it's probably another thing he's been studying his whole life, and he's ready to just illuminate us.
[00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:11.120] First off, Carnegie, not Carnegie.
[00:26:11.120 --> 00:26:12.640] So all of us mispronounce words.
[00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:13.840] So that's fine.
[00:26:13.840 --> 00:26:15.520] I understood what he was saying.
[00:26:15.840 --> 00:26:18.960] Just to go backtrack a moment before we get into this.
[00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:25.680] The global market for GLP-1 inhibitors is currently valued at $53.5 billion.
[00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:29.200] It's expected to go to $62 billion this year.
[00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:35.800] So the trillion-dollar, well, as we're going to get into now, DeSuesa doesn't really know what the fuck he's talking about.
[00:26:36.120 --> 00:26:42.120] So I've heard the Flexner story butchered numerous times by RFK Jr.
[00:26:42.280 --> 00:26:46.200] and his supplement salesman advisor, Callie Means.
[00:26:46.200 --> 00:26:51.240] DeSuza also gets many of this history wrong.
[00:26:51.240 --> 00:26:54.680] So I do want to break it down here because I think it's relevant.
[00:26:54.680 --> 00:26:57.080] Flexner was not a sociologist.
[00:26:57.080 --> 00:27:00.360] He studied the classics at Johns Hopkins for two years.
[00:27:00.360 --> 00:27:05.560] He then pursued psychology at Harvard and the University of Berlin, but he never got a degree there.
[00:27:05.560 --> 00:27:07.640] Callie Means always says he's a lawyer.
[00:27:07.640 --> 00:27:09.160] He wasn't a lawyer either.
[00:27:09.160 --> 00:27:12.440] He's considered a medical education reformer.
[00:27:12.440 --> 00:27:16.920] He did do some sociological field work, but that was not his title.
[00:27:16.920 --> 00:27:22.360] He started that work in 1908 and published the Flexner Report in 1910.
[00:27:22.360 --> 00:27:25.640] So I don't know where the fuck he's talking about the 1920s from.
[00:27:25.640 --> 00:27:31.960] He wasn't from Johns Hopkins, but he did cite it as the ideal medical school in his report.
[00:27:31.960 --> 00:27:33.720] He wasn't a professor.
[00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:35.560] He taught at a high school.
[00:27:35.560 --> 00:27:41.320] He later opened an experimental private school, but he was not a professor, as DeSuza claims.
[00:27:41.720 --> 00:27:46.760] Du Suza is also wildly wrong with the idea that anyone can call themselves a doctor.
[00:27:46.760 --> 00:27:47.720] It's absurd.
[00:27:47.720 --> 00:27:48.520] That was great.
[00:27:48.520 --> 00:27:51.240] I recently read, I did a bonus on this book too.
[00:27:51.240 --> 00:27:54.520] It's The Social Transformation of American Medicine by Paul Starr.
[00:27:54.600 --> 00:27:55.320] Great book.
[00:27:55.320 --> 00:27:59.640] It's an exhaustive review of the history of medicine in America.
[00:27:59.640 --> 00:28:06.920] He details in great depth the struggles between competing medical schools in different states during the 19th century.
[00:28:06.920 --> 00:28:31.120] While many of the problems that we currently have with our healthcare system actually stem from the competing interests that were started back then and the fact that medical schools engaged in a race to the bottom to see who could graduate students more faster to become doctors and therefore monetize more students, which later informed who open practices were and what types of insurance incentives were possible.
[00:28:31.120 --> 00:28:34.960] This flattening of anyone can call themselves a doctor is just a fucking joke.
[00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:36.240] It's not true.
[00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:39.920] And he makes it sound like before Flexner, there was no definition.
[00:28:39.920 --> 00:28:41.200] And so anyone could just say it.
[00:28:41.200 --> 00:28:48.800] And then Flexner, the sociologist from Johns Hopkins, came along in the 1920s, all completely a stack of incorrect statements.
[00:28:48.800 --> 00:28:51.600] And he came up with this definition.
[00:28:51.600 --> 00:28:54.480] And so that's what medicine has been ever since.
[00:28:54.480 --> 00:28:58.640] And we can change that definition because we are brave contrarians, right?
[00:28:58.640 --> 00:29:00.960] Yeah, that's this is one of the things about podcasts.
[00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:08.880] I mean, you know, you and I are talking, some of this is off script, some of it's on script, but the stuff we're talking about on script, we've read about and vetted.
[00:29:09.280 --> 00:29:13.120] And people go on podcasts and they just say shit off of memory.
[00:29:13.120 --> 00:29:27.120] I just finished reading Mehdi Hassan's last book where he talks about the sort of research you should be doing before you go as a guest or as a debater or anything on in anywhere, live podcast, whatever, just to actually be prepared.
[00:29:27.120 --> 00:29:30.960] And De Suza, like, you know, you just threw out that trillion dollar number.
[00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:36.960] I'm guessing most of what he said is wrong based on what I've actually looked into from the clips that we're playing.
[00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:37.120] Yeah.
[00:29:37.120 --> 00:29:42.240] And I actually love how Meh Hassan is actually very honest about this, right?
[00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:48.720] About how you prepare, you understand who you're going to be dealing with, what their arguments are probably going to be.
[00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:53.360] You make sure that you come with facts and figures and data at your hands.
[00:29:53.360 --> 00:29:59.520] And so, I saw him doing an interview about the Jubilee appearances, which has gotten him a lot of play over the last month.
[00:29:59.520 --> 00:30:02.360] And he was very self-effacing.
[00:30:02.360 --> 00:30:03.480] He's like, Yeah, you know what?
[00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:06.600] I'm like one of these guys who crams the night before the exam.
[00:30:06.600 --> 00:30:07.880] Like, I know my stuff.
[00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:09.400] I commit it to memory.
[00:30:09.400 --> 00:30:16.680] If you ask me to repeat any of it back to you right now, I probably can't do it because that's just the nature of being of having a human brain, right?
[00:30:16.680 --> 00:30:28.440] You, you, you go back and forth in terms of like how fluent you are with stuff, and that's why you have to prepare and you have to make sure you're actually doing good sourcing and fact-checking.
[00:30:28.440 --> 00:30:37.880] So, you're being given an opportunity, you know, in this diswayze, in this instance, to have the largest platform in the world to pitch your games basically.
[00:30:38.200 --> 00:30:44.440] And you're just going to come with all this completely wrong and sometimes fabricated information.
[00:30:44.440 --> 00:30:48.920] And you notice it all trends in the direction of inflation.
[00:30:48.920 --> 00:30:50.600] So, everything is inflated.
[00:30:50.600 --> 00:30:54.280] The trillion dollars is compared to 58 billion dollars.
[00:30:54.280 --> 00:31:01.240] This ominous figure of Flexner, which is what Callie Means has been doing, creating this totally lawyer who's secretly funded.
[00:31:01.240 --> 00:31:02.600] I mean, all this shit was public.
[00:31:03.160 --> 00:31:09.640] But, but you create this picture of someone who is out to get people, which is the opposite of what was going on at the time.
[00:31:09.640 --> 00:31:15.800] Yeah, and actually, the reason why I said what I said in setting up that clip is that we have multiple of the figures we've crossed.
[00:31:15.800 --> 00:31:25.480] Most the one that jumps to mind the most for me is Christiane Northrup will reference the Flexner report as the beginning of the end of being able to trust medical science.
[00:31:25.480 --> 00:31:30.280] And what reason will a lot of these conspiratuality figures that we cover give?
[00:31:30.280 --> 00:31:41.560] Well, it started to discredit things like homeopathy and all of the practices that are bundled together under naturopathy and started to actually have scientific standards.
[00:31:41.560 --> 00:31:46.880] And so, this was somehow, you know, a conspiracy because Carnegie was behind it.
[00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:57.200] And Paul Starr writes extensively this Monday, my bonus will be about naturopathy and one of the figures on Prager U, which we're covering soon, but how they manipulate information.
[00:31:57.200 --> 00:32:01.280] So, if you're enjoying this part, I will be doing more of it on Monday.
[00:32:01.280 --> 00:32:07.280] Starr writes about the Flexner report extensively in the book as well, which is how I learned a lot about it.
[00:32:07.280 --> 00:32:13.280] And it's important to recognize that that report brought coherence to medicine in America.
[00:32:13.280 --> 00:32:26.960] And one of the biggest consequences, besides what you said, which is discrediting homeopathy and naturopathy and chiropractic, it was that it took away accreditation from universities that were running bullshit programs, right?
[00:32:26.960 --> 00:32:38.400] Now, this did have some bad downstream effects too, but overall, it started to create the system that we know today in terms of education specifically.
[00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:45.360] All that said, you might not be surprised to learn that Flexer never defined medicine as the treatment and cure of disease.
[00:32:45.360 --> 00:32:46.320] That's not a thing.
[00:32:46.320 --> 00:32:50.560] He just, that's something he just fucking made up because he probably heard it from someone somewhere.
[00:32:51.200 --> 00:32:56.000] The report actually calls for medical education to be grounded in the scientific method.
[00:32:56.000 --> 00:33:05.440] It emphasizes laboratory research and experiential hospital-based clinical training as the standard for diagnosing, understanding, and addressing disease.
[00:33:05.600 --> 00:33:06.560] Diabolical, Derek.
[00:33:06.560 --> 00:33:07.200] It's awful.
[00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:07.760] It's horrible.
[00:33:07.760 --> 00:33:08.640] It's horrible.
[00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:17.760] People like Disueza and means, they like to flatten this ambitious work, which, to be clear, wasn't, again, without its problems.
[00:33:17.760 --> 00:33:31.480] So, one of them was that because they were looking at bullshit programs, it just so happened that some of those bullshit programs were in states that were servicing minority and rural communities.
[00:33:29.840 --> 00:33:36.840] So, when the colleges were shut down, they had no access to medical education at all.
[00:33:37.160 --> 00:33:41.160] So, there was a racial component that's been rightfully criticized.
[00:33:41.400 --> 00:33:49.640] But the reason Desuza in one minute gets so much shit wrong is because he's just trying to sell supplements and apparently workout gear.
[00:33:49.640 --> 00:33:51.320] Now, we found out too.
[00:33:51.320 --> 00:34:10.280] And if you could pretend that evidence-based medicine is only about stopping disease, which is such a common trope in wellness and bro science spaces, then you can position your product as the true medicine, which is the literal tagline of Cali Means' company.
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