The Joe Rogan Experience

JRE MMA Show #175 with Shakur Stevenson

March 6, 2026

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  • Shakur Stevenson attributes his elite performance, such as the one against Tia Femo, to a combination of hard work, God-given ability, intelligence, and starting boxing at a very young age, which integrates skills into his central nervous system. 
  • Stevenson prioritizes defense, tactics, and avoiding damage over slugging it out, viewing unnecessary punishment as detrimental to long-term health and the ability to speak well later in life, setting an example for young fighters. 
  • Stevenson views himself as the most complete fighter in boxing, capable of adapting his style to outbox or beat opponents at their own game, a mindset he credits in part to observing and sparring with elite fighters like Terence Crawford. 
  • The distinction between a father and a coach is crucial in boxing, as a coach's technical advice is often heard better by the athlete than a father's directive. 
  • The quality of training partners and consistent gym work, rather than solely the number of amateur fights, is the most significant factor in a boxer's development. 
  • Wrestling is considered the single most important skill in MMA due to its ability to dictate where the fight takes place, though elite boxing technique remains superior in boxing compared to MMA. 
  • Historical and anecdotal evidence suggests performance-enhancing drug use was rampant in past MMA organizations like Pride, with some contracts explicitly stating no steroid testing, and some promoters even encouraging use. 
  • Modern testing bodies like USADA and VADA, which conduct unannounced, random testing, are crucial for maintaining fairness in combat sports, unlike older systems relying solely on athletic commissions. 
  • Cheating in combat sports is viewed as significantly more dangerous than in other sports because the goal is to inflict harm, meaning PED use directly impacts fighter safety and life-or-death outcomes. 

Segments

Stevenson’s Dominant Performance
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(00:00:15)
  • Key Takeaway: Stevenson’s victory over Tia Femo was a ‘giant wake-up call’ demonstrating a level so high it made a world champion look outclassed.
  • Summary: Stevenson’s performance against Tia Femo was viewed as a massive statement to the boxing world. He attributed his success to hard work, dedication, and God-given ability, which he believes allows his instincts to take over in the ring. The performance felt like an out-of-body experience for him.
Tactical Boxing and Avoiding Damage
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(00:01:45)
  • Key Takeaway: Stevenson excels at setting traps and avoiding damage, taking very few punches, which is a hallmark of his tactical approach.
  • Summary: Rogan praised Stevenson as one of the best ever at setting traps and avoiding damage, noting how few punches he absorbs. Stevenson explained that his tactical approach is necessary because modern boxing judges often favor the forward-moving fighter, requiring him to sometimes ’take some in order to give some.’ He explicitly stated he will not fight in a way that accumulates unnecessary punishment, citing long-term health concerns like speech degradation seen in older fighters.
The William Zapeda Fight Strategy
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(00:02:04)
  • Key Takeaway: Stevenson intentionally fought William Zapeda more aggressively to earn his respect early, deviating from his usual out-boxing style.
  • Summary: The fight against William Zapeda was fought differently, partly to gain the opponent’s respect early on. Stevenson felt that purely out-boxing Zapeda might have made the fight harder because judges often score for the aggressor. He needed to ensure the judges recognized who was winning by starting the fight ‘hot.’
Self-Assessment as the Best Fighter
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(00:05:37)
  • Key Takeaway: Stevenson believes he is the best fighter in boxing because he is a versatile fighter who can ‘do it all,’ unlike specialists.
  • Summary: Stevenson asserted that he is the best fighter in boxing because he is the most complete, capable of outboxing opponents or beating them at their own game. He respects other fighters like Usik and Bivol but feels his versatility sets him apart. This mindset is crucial for a fighter dominating divisions and seeking a higher level of achievement.
Discipline and Unseen Potential
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(00:08:06)
  • Key Takeaway: Stevenson claims he has only shown about 70% of his true capability in fights, highlighting his discipline as an underrated asset.
  • Summary: Stevenson emphasized that his discipline in making necessary life sacrifices for fight night preparation is an underrated aspect of his success. He feels that even his recent virtuoso performance represented only an ‘okay day in the gym,’ suggesting he has higher levels yet to show the world. This continuous improvement is what separates very good fighters from all-time greats.
Influence of Terence Crawford
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(00:11:43)
  • Key Takeaway: Sparring with Terence Crawford elevated Stevenson’s game to a very high level, providing invaluable learning that surpasses coaching.
  • Summary: Stevenson views Terence Crawford as one of the best of all time and credits him with pushing his game to a much higher level through observation and sparring. He noted Crawford’s versatility, stating there is nothing he cannot do in the ring. Being able to spar with an all-time great is considered more valuable than any coaching.
Ideal Career Exit Strategy
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(00:17:38)
  • Key Takeaway: Stevenson’s primary goal is to leave boxing financially secure enough never to need to return, mirroring Andre Ward’s successful exit.
  • Summary: Stevenson aims to leave boxing financially secure so he never has to fight out of necessity, contrasting this with fighters who seem to ’need boxing.’ He admires Andre Ward for retiring undefeated as a two-division champion with all faculties intact. This goal emphasizes prioritizing long-term well-being over continuous paydays.
Sparring with Lomachenko
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(00:22:30)
  • Key Takeaway: Stevenson believes sparring with Vasiliy Lomachenko, where he felt skillfully superior but fatigued in later rounds, likely prevented a professional fight between them.
  • Summary: Stevenson sparred Lomachenko for free, initially feeling he was outboxing him, but Lomachenko pushed him through 12 straight rounds, gaining the better of the later rounds due to fatigue. He suspects that showing his high level during sparring years ago made Lomachenko hesitant to fight him later. Stevenson felt skillfully superior in range and speed but acknowledged Lomachenko’s conditioning advantage.
Mental Fortitude and Pressure
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(00:30:08)
  • Key Takeaway: The difference between talented gym fighters and champions is the ability to manage pressure and fear on fight night, which Stevenson attributes to his mindset.
  • Summary: Stevenson believes the difference between talented fighters who fail under the lights and those who rise to the occasion is purely mental, often stemming from fear of loss. He combats this by adopting a life-or-death mentality in the ring: ‘It’s me or that person at the end of the day.’ His champion mindset was heavily influenced by his younger brothers teasing him after amateur losses.
Father-Son Coaching Dynamics
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(00:53:14)
  • Key Takeaway: Coaches must separate their roles as father and trainer when working with their sons to ensure the fighter hears tactical advice rather than reacting emotionally to a parent.
  • Summary: Stevenson credits his grandfather for allowing him to love boxing by supporting him in other sports and not being overly overbearing in the ring. He argues that fathers coaching sons often struggle because the son reciprocates incorrectly to the father figure. A coach must be a coach in the ring, as fighters hear tactical instruction better from a coach than a parent.
Father vs. Coach Dynamic
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(00:54:50)
  • Key Takeaway: Coaches must maintain a distinct professional role from fathers to ensure athletes properly internalize technical advice.
  • Summary: There must be a clear separation between a father and a coach when training a son in boxing. When acting as a coach in the ring, the dynamic allows the athlete to reciprocate and absorb instruction better than when the father figure is dominant. Parental authority can lead to the son rejecting necessary technical advice.
Gym Environment Importance
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(00:56:44)
  • Key Takeaway: Training alongside elite fighters in a challenging gym environment is invaluable for exposing and correcting bad habits.
  • Summary: Training with elite fighters like Terrence is crucial because it exposes flaws that will otherwise surface during a fight. Bad habits must be worked on and cleaned up in the gym, as they will inevitably be exposed on fight night. This environment forces necessary technical refinement.
Amateur Career Value
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(00:57:07)
  • Key Takeaway: Developing skills through consistent, high-level sparring in the gym can be more beneficial than accumulating numerous amateur fight experiences.
  • Summary: While amateur experience provides necessary exposure, fighters can develop significantly more by staying in the gym and sparring with high-level partners. Some fighters who avoid tournaments suddenly emerge much better after focused gym development. Sparring partners and training environment matter most for skill acquisition.
Lomachenko Weight Class Issues
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(00:58:08)
  • Key Takeaway: Vasiliy Lomachenko’s career was arguably tarnished by fighting at weight classes (like 140 lbs) where he was naturally undersized.
  • Summary: Lomachenko was fundamentally a smaller fighter, likely best suited for 126 pounds, and fighting larger opponents made his career harder. His fights against bigger men, such as Teofimo Lopez (T.O.), exposed him to dangers his strategy couldn’t overcome. Fighting outside his natural weight class affected how the public perceived his otherwise excellent skill level.
MMA Weight Class Deficiencies
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(01:00:22)
  • Key Takeaway: The UFC has too few weight classes, creating massive, unfair size gaps between competitors in divisions like 185 to 205 lbs.
  • Summary: The limited number of weight classes in MMA forces smaller fighters to compete against significantly larger opponents, which is considered a major flaw. This structure leads to fighters competing at a disadvantage simply because no intermediate weight class exists. Boxing’s structure is implicitly favored for avoiding these large size disparities.
Boxing vs. MMA Skill Comparison
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(01:01:46)
  • Key Takeaway: Boxing’s concentrated focus on hand techniques results in a far superior level of punching skill compared to MMA.
  • Summary: The skill level and talent in pure punching are undeniably better in boxing because the sport is entirely concentrated on that discipline. MMA fighters must divide their focus among striking, takedowns, kicks, and defense against knees and elbows, leading to sloppier boxing mechanics. Certain boxing maneuvers are impossible in MMA because the legs are exposed to calf kicks.
Wrestling Dominance in MMA
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(01:03:20)
  • Key Takeaway: Wrestling is the best skill in MMA because wrestlers can consistently take opponents down, neutralizing striking advantages.
  • Summary: Wrestlers are considered the strongest athletes in MMA due to their ability to control takedowns, which immediately puts opponents in a compromised position. Even though fights start standing, the wrestler’s ability to initiate the clinch or takedown repeatedly is the most crucial skill. Fighters like Jon Jones exemplify this by integrating wrestling fundamentals into an all-around game.
Terence Crawford’s Intelligence
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(01:03:34)
  • Key Takeaway: Terence Crawford possesses exceptional fight IQ, demonstrated by his ability to study and instantly adjust strategy based on sparring footage.
  • Summary: Crawford is described as one of the few boxers who could transition well into MMA due to his wrestling background and high fight IQ. He meticulously studies his sparring sessions on video, making immediate, precise adjustments to his technique for the next day. This level of self-analysis and rapid adaptation is what makes him a ‘different’ caliber of fighter.
Boxer Mentality vs. Fighter Mentality
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(01:20:01)
  • Key Takeaway: A boxer’s mentality is detached and focused on precision and defense, whereas a ‘fighter’ mentality is emotional and focused on overpowering the opponent.
  • Summary: When emotional, a boxer can revert to a ‘fighter’ mentality, focusing on a contest of strength rather than executing boxing technique. The ideal boxing mindset involves hitting without being hit, maintaining composure, and being present in the moment. Shakur Stevenson notes that self-study and correcting bad habits are rare attributes among fighters who often over-rely on coaches.
Importance of Documenting Boxing Knowledge
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(01:25:20)
  • Key Takeaway: Valuable boxing knowledge, often kept secret within camps, needs to be documented in books rather than remaining solely word-of-mouth.
  • Summary: Boxing knowledge is traditionally passed down orally in gyms or through commentators, leading to the potential loss of crucial technical insights. It would benefit the sport if active boxers wrote books detailing their technical adjustments, training changes, and lessons learned from specific fights. Andre Ward’s book is cited as a rare example of documented, high-level boxing wisdom.
Floyd Mayweather’s Discipline
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(01:30:24)
  • Key Takeaway: Floyd Mayweather’s sustained dominance stemmed from unparalleled discipline, meticulous study, and avoiding unnecessary damage throughout his career.
  • Summary: Mayweather is considered a wizard whose mental processing was far ahead of his opponents, allowing him to remain largely unhittable while standing in front of them. His discipline included never compromising his body through drinking or poor habits, even when socializing. His mastery was evident in how he adapted and dominated opponents in rematches, such as against Maidana.
Shakur’s Next Career Moves
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(01:35:44)
  • Key Takeaway: Shakur Stevenson is currently motivated by acquiring the Ring Magazine belt at 135 lbs, even over opponent interest, and plans a future move to 147 lbs with dedicated weight preparation.
  • Summary: Stevenson expressed a desire to return to 135 lbs specifically to capture the Ring Magazine belt, indicating a focus on legacy hardware over immediate opponent matchups. If he moves up to 147 lbs, he intends to properly prepare and put on mass rather than just fighting bigger guys immediately. He acknowledges that moving up and then cutting back down can negatively impact a fighter’s body, citing Roy Jones Jr.’s post-heavyweight career as an example.
Historical Steroid Use in MMA
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(01:47:29)
  • Key Takeaway: Pride FC contracts explicitly stated they did not test for steroids, and some fighters were even encouraged to use them.
  • Summary: Enson Inoue reportedly had a Pride contract stating in all caps, ‘WE DO NOT TEST FOR STEROIDS,’ and a friend of the speaker was encouraged to take steroids while fighting in Japan. The speaker notes that when steroids were later tested for in MMA, some fighters’ physiques and power visibly deflated, suggesting past performance advantages.
Evolving Anti-Doping Measures
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(01:48:56)
  • Key Takeaway: Modern MMA organizations like the UFC now use agencies like Drug Free Sport and previously USADA to conduct unannounced, random testing to prevent fighters from timing their usage.
  • Summary: The conversation contrasts historical lax testing with modern methods, noting that random, unannounced testing by agencies like Drug Free Sport (and previously USADA) is the only effective way to catch users. VADA employs the same tactic of showing up randomly to test athletes, which the speaker endorses as the correct procedure.
Boxing Drug Testing History
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(01:50:19)
  • Key Takeaway: Major historical boxing fights, such as Roy Jones Jr. vs. John Ruiz, likely occurred without modern VADA or USADA-style year-round testing.
  • Summary: The speaker doubts that the Roy Jones Jr. vs. John Ruiz fight utilized VADA testing, suggesting they relied only on the athletic commission, which is deemed an ‘intelligence test.’ The discussion then pivots to Manny Pacquiao’s ability to move up eight weight classes while maintaining knockout power, which the speaker finds suspicious given the lack of modern testing during that era.
Aleister Overeem’s Physical Transformation
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(01:51:45)
  • Key Takeaway: Aleister Overeem provides a clear visual example in MMA of a fighter whose physique and perceived dominance (‘Uberim’) drastically changed after USADA testing was implemented.
  • Summary: Overeem, while on performance enhancers, was described as ‘unstoppable’ and looked like a ‘comic book superhero,’ earning the nickname ‘Uberim.’ After USADA testing began, his physique softened significantly, illustrating the physical impact of being tested year-round compared to relying only on commission testing.
Cheating’s Impact on Combat Sports
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(01:53:33)
  • Key Takeaway: Cheating in combat sports is uniquely dangerous because the objective is to hurt the opponent, making enhanced power a direct threat to life and health.
  • Summary: The speaker expresses strong aversion to fighting someone cheating because, unlike baseball where steroids might just lead to more home runs, in boxing, cheating can lead to life-or-death consequences. The speaker states they would ‘crash out’ if they knew they lost to someone who cheated, emphasizing the personal violation in a life-or-death context.
Sabril Matias Doping Revelation
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(01:57:48)
  • Key Takeaway: Boxer Sabril Matias, who killed an opponent in the ring, was subsequently popped for cheating, raising serious ethical questions for the victim’s family.
  • Summary: The conversation notes that Matias, who killed a man in the ring, was later found to have cheated, which compounds the tragedy for the deceased’s family. The discussion briefly touches on Ostarine, a SARM used to promote muscle growth without severe steroid side effects, which is banned by WADA.
Natural Power vs. Enhancement
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(02:00:40)
  • Key Takeaway: While some fighters possess rare, natural, fight-ending punching power (like Deontay Wilder or Ernie Shavers), the temptation to enhance this power through cheating remains high.
  • Summary: The speaker acknowledges that some fighters possess God-given, ‘crazy punching power’ that cannot be replicated, citing Deontay Wilder and Ernie Shavers as examples of elite one-punch knockout artists. However, the speaker remains suspicious of fighters who exhibit extreme power, especially when they move up weight classes without losing that power.
Top Boxing Matchups and Hand Health
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(02:03:03)
  • Key Takeaway: The most compelling fight currently being discussed in boxing is David Benavidez versus Artur Beterbiev, and Benavidez provided the speaker with advice on glove selection to protect his hands.
  • Summary: The speaker identifies the Benavidez vs. Beterbiev fight as the best matchup in boxing, despite Canelo Alvarez’s reluctance to fight Benavidez due to size differences. Benavidez also provided the speaker with a tip regarding fight-night gloves that helped strengthen the speaker’s hands, a process often supplemented by exercises like plunging hands into buckets of rice.
Artur Beterbiev’s Doping Status
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(02:05:13)
  • Key Takeaway: Artur Beterbiev received an ‘atypical finding’ for HGH and 5D androstanodiol, which required follow-up testing that ultimately yielded negative results, suggesting naturally high levels.
  • Summary: The conversation reviewed Beterbiev’s recent atypical drug test result, which was not an immediate violation but required further examination by VADA. The finding was for substances that occur naturally, and follow-up tests confirmed negative results, suggesting his elevated levels might be natural rather than illicit use.