The Joe Rogan Experience

#2455 - Donnell Rawlings

February 17, 2026

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  • Donnell Rawlings and Joe Rogan discuss age-related digestive issues, specifically with red meat, and the role of accompanying drinks like Tito's vodka in exacerbating the problem. 
  • The conversation touches on the perceived need for a 'female handler' as men age, linking it to dietary restrictions and overall life changes. 
  • A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the deceptive marketing of tobacco products, particularly Natural American Spirit cigarettes, and the addictive nature of menthol additives. 
  • Donnell Rawlings emphasizes the importance of not paying attention to online haters to maintain mental well-being and focus on success, contrasting his early engagement with his current philosophy. 
  • The conversation heavily features a detailed, emotionally charged recounting of Donnell Rawlings' complicated experiences, perceived slights, and subsequent comebacks related to the comedy show *Kill Tony*. 
  • The discussion concludes that true success in comedy, exemplified by figures like Dave Chappelle and Richard Pryor, is defined by continuous evolution of craft and work ethic, rather than solely relying on initial talent or social media presence. 
  • Narcissism and jealousy hinder professional growth by preventing comedians from appreciating the success of their peers, which should instead serve as fuel for self-improvement. 
  • Authenticity and likability are crucial for long-term podcast success, as audiences prefer hosts who are genuinely interesting over those who rely on confrontational or self-obsessed 'train wreck' content for clicks. 
  • True success is defined by personal happiness, control over one's career, and strong relationships, rather than external accolades like jets or mansions, and focusing energy on negativity detracts from these core pursuits. 
  • The Chappelle show provided Charlie Murphy with an identity separate from his brother, Eddie Murphy, establishing him as a respected storyteller. 
  • Early career struggles for comedians often involved unfair financial practices by club owners, such as manipulating ticket sales to withhold bonuses. 
  • Comedians like Bill Burr and Bernie Mac developed resilience and character by performing in brutal, challenging environments, such as the Opie and Anthony tour crowds. 

Segments

Dietary Issues and Age
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(00:00:12)
  • Key Takeaway: Digestive issues with red meat, particularly steak, may be linked to what it is consumed with, such as alcohol, rather than just age.
  • Summary: One speaker reports digestive problems specifically with steak, noting that a burger is different, and the issue might be related to consuming it with Tito’s vodka. Both speakers reveal they are 58 years old, prompting reflection on needing to change life habits regarding food. The need for a partner who understands and manages these dietary restrictions is humorously mentioned.
Podcast Scheduling and Black History Month
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(00:02:42)
  • Key Takeaway: Donnell Rawlings’ appearance on The Joe Rogan Experience during Black History Month was initiated by Rawlings reaching out, though Joe Rogan accommodated the timing by moving another guest.
  • Summary: Rawlings questions if his appearance during Black History Month was intentional, but Rogan confirms Rawlings initiated the booking. Rogan states he moved a previously booked guest, possibly Michael Jai White who was scheduled for the next day, to accommodate Rawlings. Rawlings expresses appreciation for Rogan being accommodating, noting it was time for him to return to the show.
Cognitive Enhancement and Nicotine
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(00:08:31)
  • Key Takeaway: Nicotine is acknowledged as a potent cognitive enhancer utilized by many intellectuals, though smoking carries severe health repercussions.
  • Summary: Nicotine is factually described as a cognitive enhancer that stimulates the mind, leading many academics and writers to use it. The instantaneous effect of smoking provides potent stimulation, but it comes with well-known physical health costs. The discussion briefly touches upon American Spirit cigarettes being marketed as ‘additive-free’ despite lawsuits suggesting otherwise.
Menthol Cigarettes and Marketing
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(00:12:34)
  • Key Takeaway: Menthol in cigarettes acts as a mild anesthetic, masking irritation and making smoke feel smoother, which increases addiction potential.
  • Summary: The menthol effect comes from the chemical cooling and numbing the airways, suppressing the cough reflex and making deep inhalation easier. This masking effect reduces the perceived harshness of smoke, creating pleasant sensory cues associated with satisfaction. Menthol may also alter nicotine metabolism, increasing its addictive reinforcement.
Prison Currency and Deceptive Marketing
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(00:15:04)
  • Key Takeaway: In prison, items like Cool cigarettes, Tang, honey buns, and candy bars hold significant value, sometimes carrying coded meanings.
  • Summary: Cool cigarettes reportedly hold a high value in prison dice games, sometimes exceeding other items. Tang (artificial drink mix) and honey buns are also mentioned as high-value commodities. Offering candy bars can be a coded invitation for sexual intercourse, illustrating how brands are leveraged in unique social economies.
Food Preferences and Cultural Seasoning
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(00:17:50)
  • Key Takeaway: Lemon pepper seasoning is a universally popular flavor profile within the Black community, contrasting with the bland foods often associated with white culture.
  • Summary: Lemon pepper seasoning guarantees high sales success on any food item within the Black community, such as wings or fries. This is contrasted with the blandness associated with typical white comfort foods like macaroni and cheese, which must be referred to as ‘mac and cheese’ to be accepted at a cookout. Paradoxically, the lack of seasoning (salt) in some home cooking can be life-saving compared to excessive salt intake.
Misinformation on Sugar and Fat
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(00:21:04)
  • Key Takeaway: The sugar industry bribed scientists to shift blame for heart disease from sugar onto saturated fats, leading to widespread dietary misinformation.
  • Summary: Excessive sugar, especially in liquid form like soda, is terrible for health and a primary driver of Type 2 diabetes. Sugar from fruit is better because it is bound with fiber, allowing for slow-release consumption. The historical misinformation campaign successfully associated saturated fat with heart disease to deflect attention from the dangers of added sugar.
Biblical Interpretation and Translation Issues
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(00:24:30)
  • Key Takeaway: The Bible never specifies the fruit Adam ate was an apple; the term ‘apple’ arose later in European tradition due to Latin/French wordplay.
  • Summary: The Hebrew word for the forbidden fruit, ‘peri,’ is a general term lacking botanical detail, meaning it could be any fruit. The idea of it being an apple developed later, possibly due to similar-sounding words for ’evil’ and ‘apple’ in Latin and Old French. Furthermore, the text does not explicitly state Adam told Eve not to eat the fruit, suggesting misinformation spread through oral tradition and translation.
Religious Belief and Predatory Practices
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(00:27:30)
  • Key Takeaway: People are deeply connected to religion due to the desire for belief and community reinforcement, but televangelists often exploit this need through predatory financial practices.
  • Summary: The teachings of Jesus Christ are cited as reinforcing community and leading to a better life, which strengthens belief in Christianity. However, mega-churches are criticized as predatory scams, exemplified by televangelists encouraging desperate people to borrow money to donate for a tenfold return. These leaders often live lavishly off the donations of people who are barely getting by.
Lottery Mechanics and Legalized Theft
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(00:30:40)
  • Key Takeaway: Lotteries are structured so the house (state/government) cannot lose, as only about 50% of ticket revenue funds the prize pool, and winners pay taxes on the payout.
  • Summary: The lottery system is described as legalized gambling where the house always wins, as the state regulates and profits significantly from ticket sales. For a $100 million jackpot, the state already made $100 million in sales, and only a fraction of that prize pool goes to the main jackpot. Winners who take the lump sum payout must then pay taxes on that amount, ensuring the government profits regardless.
Mob Loyalty vs. Snitching Culture
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(00:40:45)
  • Key Takeaway: Mob figures historically laundered money through legitimate-seeming businesses, and loyalty (not snitching) was enforced by severe threats to life and family.
  • Summary: Mobsters used legitimate businesses as fronts to explain their wealth, such as expensive cars and mansions, while engaging in illegal activities. The strict code of silence meant that snitching resulted in death for the informant and often their family, which enforced loyalty. This contrasts with modern trends where, in some communities, informants face fewer repercussions upon release.
Comedians’ Negative Content Strategy
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(00:44:43)
  • Key Takeaway: Some comedians gravitate toward negativity and exposing others because they are less talented and seek engagement by being jealous of more successful peers.
  • Summary: The current trend on many platforms involves comedians focusing on negativity and ’exposing’ others rather than focusing on being funny, which is seen as destructive. These individuals are often those who previously benefited from Hollywood favor but fell out of it, leading to resentment. The underlying motivation is often jealousy or a desire to be in the position of the person they are criticizing.
Batman vs. Robin Analogy
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(00:52:38)
  • Key Takeaway: Robin can achieve the same screen time as Batman, suggesting that supporting roles can be equally valuable.
  • Summary: Not everyone needs to be the main figure like Batman; being Robin is acceptable because the supporting character can receive equal screen time. This illustrates a point about the value of different roles. The speaker mentions being triggered by the host’s shirt, leading to a brief, tense exchange.
Dealing with Online Criticism
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(00:53:38)
  • Key Takeaway: Engaging with negative online comments from people without happy lives is counterproductive, though early criticism can prompt necessary self-evaluation.
  • Summary: The speaker admits to engaging with online critics early in his career because he did not understand their motivations. He now recognizes that critics often have unhappy lives, and while some criticism can be constructive, the key is to become undeniable through success. Ignoring the noise is essential when one is already selling out shows and performing well.
Conflict Over Past Show Incident
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(00:54:34)
  • Key Takeaway: A past on-air disagreement regarding a perceived ‘bad show’ remains a sensitive point of contention between the speakers.
  • Summary: The guest accuses the host of bringing up a past incident where the guest felt unfairly treated during a show, possibly while intoxicated. This leads to a back-and-forth about who was at fault and whether the guest walked off stage. The tension is temporarily diffused when the guest changes his shirt to remove the perceived trigger.
Tony Hinchcliffe and Kill Tony Dynamics
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(00:56:28)
  • Key Takeaway: The guest initially resisted appearing on Kill Tony due to concerns about being perceived as sensitive by the audience.
  • Summary: The guest explains his reluctance to do the show during the pandemic because he was aware of the street perception that he is sensitive. He recounts a specific instance where he stayed on Tony Hinchcliffe’s show for two and a half hours, only to feel undermined by another comic roasting him while he tried to offer advice. The guest felt Tony Hinchcliffe doubled down on the negative narrative in a subsequent episode.
Rob Schneider and Loyalty Discussion
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(01:11:29)
  • Key Takeaway: The guest felt Rob Schneider’s joking during a serious moment on Kill Tony undermined the guest’s attempt to discuss loyalty versus public opinion.
  • Summary: The guest details his internal conflict regarding appearing on a politically charged Kill Tony episode, ultimately deciding against it due to publicist advice and loyalty concerns toward Tony Hinchcliffe. He felt Rob Schneider took away from a serious moment by continuing a corny joke at the guest’s expense, which was misinterpreted as being roasted.
The Value of Kill Tony Platform
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(01:18:13)
  • Key Takeaway: Kill Tony functions as the modern equivalent of the Def Jam era, providing a crucial spectacle platform for undiscovered talent seeking validation.
  • Summary: The Kill Tony show is compared to the Def Jam era for giving visibility to undiscovered talent, making it a necessary stop for aspiring comedians today, replacing the need to get on Carson or Letterman. While it offers hope, it can also expose comics who are not ready, as they only have a few minutes to impress. The guest notes that many comedians now travel across the country specifically to appear on the show.
Comedian Evolution and Specials
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(01:27:37)
  • Key Takeaway: Comedians with long careers, like Dave Chappelle, produce ‘albums’ of work that document cultural moments, whereas many modern ‘specials’ are merely ‘joke dumps’ lacking point of view.
  • Summary: The term ‘special’ in comedy is considered strange compared to other art forms, and its value now depends on the stature of the person releasing it. Great comedians create bodies of work that chronicle the times, showing evolution, unlike those who just release short joke collections. Accepting that people evolve and gain different perspectives over a 35-40 year career is necessary.
White Comedian Beef and Jealousy
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(01:37:32)
  • Key Takeaway: Beef among white comedians, unlike the more volatile black comedy scene, often manifests as passive-aggressive criticism fueled by jealousy when one’s career declines relative to peers.
  • Summary: The speaker recounts witnessing a polite but tense argument between Bill Burr and Mark Maron, noting that white comedian beef seems less physically threatening, resulting in potential lawsuits instead of violence. He suggests Maron’s criticism of others stems from bitterness and jealousy after his own podcast success dropped off while Burr’s career ascended. The key difference is that successful comedians should use peers’ success as fuel, not a reason for criticism.
Narcissism and Professional Jealousy
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(01:41:23)
  • Key Takeaway: Inability to appreciate others’ success due to narcissism prevents personal growth and inspiration.
  • Summary: A narcissist’s need to make everything about themselves stops them from being inspired by peers who are succeeding. Other people doing well should fuel one’s own determination to improve. Failing to be happy for friends who are ‘killing it’ suggests a need to self-assess one’s own career trajectory.
Jon Stewart and Marin Confrontation
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(01:42:27)
  • Key Takeaway: A story illustrates how past public condemnation (calling someone a sellout) can be contradicted by later career success.
  • Summary: Andrew Schultz shared a story where Marin confronted Jon Stewart for taking a television show, calling him a sellout. Subsequently, Marin was hired to host the same show after Stewart left. This highlights the complex and sometimes hypocritical nature of professional criticism in entertainment.
Critique of Marin’s Podcast Style
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(01:42:59)
  • Key Takeaway: Marin’s podcast failed due to a self-obsessed, non-entertaining opening rant and a confrontational interview style.
  • Summary: The speaker believes Marin’s podcast declined because the opening rant was too long and self-obsessed, lacking entertainment value. His interview style was overly confrontational, especially toward comedians he perceived as beneath him. Audiences today prefer hosts they like and who are good people, not constant discomfort.
Focusing Podcast Content on Clicks
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(01:43:47)
  • Key Takeaway: Podcasters seeking viral clickbait often lack true talent, relying on controversy instead of genuine entertainment.
  • Summary: Many current podcasters aim for clickbait and viral moments because that is their only method for gaining attention. If they possessed genuine entertainment value, their podcasts would naturally focus on being interesting and fascinating. The speaker prioritizes interviewing people they genuinely want to talk to, regardless of fame.
Resource Allocation: Attention vs. Negativity
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(01:45:08)
  • Key Takeaway: Spending daily mental energy on haters and bitter people robs focus from productive life goals and personal interests.
  • Summary: Attention is a finite resource; spending a significant portion thinking about haters or competitors detracts from one’s 100% capacity for life goals, family, and hobbies. Bitter individuals concentrate on tearing others down because they dislike how they compare to successful people. Misrepresenting others’ success is a transparent tactic that wastes precious personal resources.
Success and Personal Contentment
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(01:47:17)
  • Key Takeaway: Financial security aids in achieving a calm demeanor, but true contentment comes from focusing on loved ones and enjoyable activities.
  • Summary: Having enough money to never worry about finances certainly helps one stop ‘giving a fuck’ about external pressures. The speaker concentrates on loved ones, friends, and enjoyable activities because life is short. One should not waste time concentrating on people they dislike unless they are actively being wronged.
Defining Personal Career Reality
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(01:48:21)
  • Key Takeaway: The speaker’s definition of success is living his reality—waking up, calling his own shots, and connecting with his talent—with anything extra being a bonus.
  • Summary: The speaker clarified to Jon Hamm that he is already doing exactly what he wants by controlling his schedule and supporting his family through his God-given talent. He is appreciative of his current reality, which is already many others’ dreams. It is crucial not to get caught up in someone else’s dream to the point of forgetting one’s own reality.
Friendship vs. Association
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(01:50:52)
  • Key Takeaway: Hanging out with highly successful friends like Dave Chappelle is positive when based on genuine friendship, not jealousy or being caught up in their wave.
  • Summary: The speaker emphasizes that his relationship with Dave Chappelle is based on genuine friendship, not just professional association. He notes that Dave respects his talent, placing him in his top five comedians. Their shared history, especially during the pandemic shows, solidified a bond built on mutual respect and shared experience.
Pandemic Shows and Community Building
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(01:52:01)
  • Key Takeaway: The unique, highly tested, and controlled environment of the pandemic shows fostered an intense sense of community and appreciation for freedom.
  • Summary: The lockdown period made everyone appreciate life and freedom significantly more, exemplified by the unique outdoor shows done with rigorous testing. Dave Chappelle created a safe bubble in Yellow Springs, ensuring staff and attendees were tested, which allowed them to continue performing safely. This period led to an appreciation for nature and a realization that security in traditional employment is an illusion.
The Power of Undeniable Performance
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(02:17:44)
  • Key Takeaway: The highest form of respect in comedy comes from consistently delivering undeniable, roof-blowing performances, which managers and peers will eventually seek out.
  • Summary: Barry Katz advised the speaker to ‘just rip’ and ‘be undeniable’ rather than seeking favors to get into mainstream clubs. Undeniable means consistently destroying on stage every time, not just having one good set among several bad ones. This consistent excellence is what builds genuine respect from peers and attracts industry attention.
Charlie Murphy’s Identity
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(02:30:24)
  • Key Takeaway: The Chappelle Show successfully established Charlie Murphy’s independent identity as a storyteller, separate from Eddie Murphy.
  • Summary: Charlie Murphy committed to being a storyteller, which was validated by public recognition of his name after his passing, rather than just being known as Eddie Murphy’s brother. This success was attributed to the platform provided by the Chappelle show. The stories shared were noted for their originality, whether entirely true or partially embellished for narrative effect.
Early Road Stories and Bill Burr
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(02:30:56)
  • Key Takeaway: Bill Burr once used the shared weakness of Donnell Rawlings and Charlie Murphy for fried chicken to incapacitate them for his own amusement.
  • Summary: Donnell Rawlings, Charlie Murphy, and Bill Burr developed a strong bond while touring, often engaging in arguments and pranks. Burr would buy Popeye’s chicken, knowing Rawlings and Murphy would overeat and fall into a ‘sleep coma’ afterward. This shared experience, though seemingly minor, was part of the formative time where careers were being built.
Headliner Pay and Club Scams
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(02:32:02)
  • Key Takeaway: Early headlining comedians often faced dishonest club owners who manipulated ticket counts to avoid paying agreed-upon bonuses.
  • Summary: Comedians starting out might earn low base pay, like $800 a weekend, with bonuses contingent on selling 300 tickets. Club owners frequently lied about ticket sales, claiming a comedian was just short of the bonus threshold (e.g., 298 tickets sold). This history of being cheated explains why established comedians often refuse to return to those venues.
Grind and Bill Burr’s Character
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(02:32:50)
  • Key Takeaway: Bill Burr’s willingness to perform in the grimiest comedy spots alongside mainstream gigs helped build his character and resilience.
  • Summary: Donnell Rawlings toured relentlessly for a year and a half, often following Bill Burr with no days off, which kept him sharp. Burr was unique among white comics for taking the ‘grimiest spots,’ which Rawlings believes contributed to his strong character and confidence, exemplified by his later confrontation in Philadelphia. Performing in tough crowds, like those on the Opie and Anthony tour, served as a defining moment for comics.
Def Jam Moments and Bernie Mac
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(02:34:24)
  • Key Takeaway: Bernie Mac’s iconic ‘I ain’t afraid of you, motherfuckers’ moment on Def Jam was a direct, unplanned reaction to the hostile crowd environment.
  • Summary: Dom Irrera was booed during the Def Jam taping, and Bill Burr responded aggressively to the brutal crowd. Bernie Mac followed, having witnessed the previous comic bomb and receiving encouragement from Butch Burns to hold his head up. Mac’s famous line was an explosive response to the audience’s hostility, contrasting with his previous, more polished appearance on the show.
Next Level Comedians Observed
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(02:37:01)
  • Key Takeaway: George Wallace and Rich Voss were observed as comedians operating on an exceptionally high level early in their careers.
  • Summary: George Wallace commanded a unique deal of 100% of the door revenue at a comedy club, demonstrating his drawing power despite his older style. Rich Voss, a white comedian with a ponytail, destroyed a predominantly Black club audience, surprising Rawlings. Rawlings admitted to stealing one joke from Voss, a simple setup/punchline about ‘once you go black, you never go back,’ and later apologized.
Post-Show Reflection and Rizza Incident
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(02:39:16)
  • Key Takeaway: Donnell Rawlings regrets participating in a subsequent podcast with ‘Rizza’ because the resulting negative comments caused him distress.
  • Summary: Rawlings admitted the conversation was therapeutic but warned against reading comments, referencing a past podcast with ‘Rizza’ that still draws criticism. Rawlings initially planned to leave immediately after the main podcast to see his son but stayed when Rizza arrived and called him ‘Ashy Larry.’ Rawlings felt Rizza tried to pitch jokes beforehand, which he advised against, leading to the controversial outcome of that joint recording.