The Viall Files

Nigel Barker Talks America's Next Top Model Doc, Love Is Blind with Kevan, Traitors and RHOBH

February 17, 2026

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  • Nigel Barker found watching the *America's Next Top Model* documentary nostalgic but eye-opening, particularly regarding Jay Manuel's experience, as he was largely shielded from behind-the-scenes drama while judging. 
  • The *America's Next Top Model* documentary highlights how the show's past practices regarding body shaming and contestant treatment would not be acceptable today, though Nigel Barker noted the show did influence the industry to embrace more diversity. 
  • The fashion industry historically resisted *America's Next Top Model* because it was deemed too commercial, causing Nigel Barker's high-fashion photography career trajectory to shift toward more commercial work after his involvement. 
  • The hosts and guests discussed the current state of *The Traitors*, noting Rob's growing cockiness and the likelihood that strong players like Kristen and Natalie will be targeted by the remaining traitors. 
  • Nigel Barker noted that the fashion industry initially resisted *America's Next Top Model* due to its reality TV format, leading to a shift toward commercial jobs until *Vogue*'s eventual, but ultimately ineffective, involvement. 
  • Nigel Barker believes that reality television, like *America's Next Top Model*, served as a precursor to social media by offering a raw, behind-the-scenes look contrasting with polished magazine content. 
  • Kevan from *Love Is Blind* expressed that the experiment taught him the necessity of being more intentional and vulnerable in dating, contrasting with his previous surface-level dating history. 
  • Alex from *Love Is Blind* is perceived as being naturally flirtatious due to past attention and is struggling to differentiate between being nice and flirting while engaged to Ashley. 
  • Brie's insistence on exploring her connection with Chris post-engagement is seen as a sign of regret and an attempt to gaslight her castmates who have moved on. 
  • The *RHOBH* discussion highlighted the clash between Amanda's 'vibes' and 'manifestation' philosophy and the more pragmatic, business-minded approaches of cast members like Bose, alongside Sutton's vulnerable sharing about her annulment. 

Segments

Valentine’s Day Recap
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(00:01:16)
  • Key Takeaway: Nick Viall wore a Justin Bieber-approved red cardigan for Valentine’s Day, matching the theme of the day.
  • Summary: The hosts wished listeners a Happy Valentine’s Day, noting Natalie Joy’s hair turned pink for the occasion. Nick Viall mentioned wearing a red cardigan sweater approved by Justin Bieber. The couple went to brunch at Marco Polo in Silver Lake, which was closed due to a power outage, forcing them to relocate to All Time in Los Feliz.
New Viall Files Merch Launch
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(00:04:23)
  • Key Takeaway: New Viall Files merchandise, featuring a classic, vintage 80s-style sweatshirt, is launching this Thursday with limited supply.
  • Summary: New podcast merchandise, including a ‘household sweatshirt,’ is launching this Thursday and is described as the greatest merch ever created by the podcast. The design aims for a classic, vintage look reminiscent of the 1980s. Listeners are encouraged to sign up for a countdown notification due to the very limited supply.
Natalie’s ‘Absolutely F*ck Not’
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(00:05:35)
  • Key Takeaway: Nick Viall finds Natalie Joy’s decisive phrase, ‘absolutely fucking not,’ to be attractive due to its clear decisiveness.
  • Summary: Nick Viall expressed an unexpected enjoyment for Natalie Joy’s firm declaration, ‘absolutely fucking not.’ Natalie attributes this phrase to decisiveness, which Nick finds appealing. The hosts briefly joked about the difference between shoe sizes like 10.5 and 11.
Pregnancy Foot Growth
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(00:07:35)
  • Key Takeaway: It is a confirmed phenomenon that women’s feet can grow half a size during pregnancy, causing old shoes to no longer fit.
  • Summary: Natalie confirmed that her feet grew half a size during pregnancy, a change she noted is a known occurrence. This growth meant her old shoes no longer fit correctly. The hosts joked that the expense of buying new shoes might be why Carrie Bradshaw never had children in Sex and the City.
Valentine’s Movie Disappointment
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(00:09:14)
  • Key Takeaway: The movie Saltburn director Emerald Fennell’s new film, marketed as a Valentine’s Day event, was emotionally unsatisfying and not uplifting.
  • Summary: Justin questioned why Wuthering Heights (directed by Emerald Fennell, who also directed Saltburn) was marketed as a Valentine’s Day film, given its dark content. Natalie found the movie speechless-inducing but not in a way that promoted belief in love, noting it lacked the expected ‘horny’ elements. The film’s plot was described as more traumatizing than the book, focusing on mentally and emotionally abusive characters.
Valentine’s Music and Movies
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(00:11:34)
  • Key Takeaway: Natalie enjoyed the Charlie XCX soundtrack for Wuthering Heights while listening with noise-canceling headphones, contrasting with her fear of wearing them around roommates.
  • Summary: Natalie listened to the full Charlie XCX soundtrack while drinking wine and eating pasta, finding the experience transcendent. She admitted to being nervous about wearing noise-canceling headphones around roommates due to ‘intruder syndrome,’ fearing she wouldn’t hear someone approaching. Nick and Natalie watched Eternity starring Elizabeth Olsen and Miles Teller, finding it a cute, uplifting rom-com that avoided being overly cheesy or depressing.
Taylor Swift’s ‘Lover’ Impact
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(00:13:23)
  • Key Takeaway: Taylor Swift’s song ‘Lover’ evoked strong nostalgia for Nick Viall, reminding him of vintage black-and-white Levi’s jean commercials.
  • Summary: Nick Viall declared Taylor Swift’s ‘Lover’ an ‘all-timer’ after Natalie played it on a Valentine’s playlist. The song triggered Nick’s nostalgia for fantasies set in the lens of a black-and-white vintage Levi’s commercial. Nick and Natalie’s brunch plans were disrupted when their go-to spot, Marco Polo, lost power, leading them to All Time in Los Feliz.
The Traitors Episode Analysis
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(00:15:33)
  • Key Takeaway: Rob’s increasing cockiness as a Traitor is evident, and the other players’ reluctance to confront him suggests they are psychologically unable to accept their leader is the enemy.
  • Summary: The hosts noted Rob is becoming overly cocky, suggesting he might as well wear ‘Traitors’ on his forehead, yet others seem unwilling to challenge him. Kristen is correctly suspicious of Eric, who has become noticeably quieter since becoming a Traitor. The hosts predict Tara or Johnny will be eliminated next, as they are seen as the least strategic players alongside Mark and Maura.
Traitors Reunion Rumors
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(00:22:38)
  • Key Takeaway: Substantiated rumors suggest Candace Dillard confronts Rob and Lisa Rinna confronts Colton at The Traitors reunion, leading to Rob and Colton unfollowing the respective women.
  • Summary: The reunion is expected to be intense, with Candace confronting Rob about his gameplay and Lisa Rinna confronting Colton regarding past accusations of harassment via fake accounts. Lisa Rinna reportedly feels Colton asked to see the ‘housewife energy’ and is prepared to deliver it. The hosts believe Colton and Rob might be thin-skinned, as they are unaccustomed to the direct, personal confrontations typical of Real Housewives reunions.
ANTM Documentary Reflections
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(00:27:08)
  • Key Takeaway: The America’s Next Top Model documentary reveals that producers actively encouraged behavior that would be considered inappropriate today, often silencing contestants’ doubts.
  • Summary: The documentary shows how producers encouraged contestants to proceed with makeovers they resisted, such as closing Danielle’s gap or forcing Whitney to gain weight in subsequent cycles. Scenes like Shandi being filmed while calling her boyfriend after being encouraged to cheat highlight the producers’ role in pushing situations too far for television. Nigel Barker noted that he, as a judge, was kept separate and only saw what aired on TV, learning the full extent of the behind-the-scenes issues later.
ANTM’s Industry Impact
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(00:45:16)
  • Key Takeaway: While America’s Next Top Model significantly influenced the industry to embrace more diversity, the high-fashion segment remains exclusive, often sticking to sample sizes (size 2-4, 5'9", size 9 shoe).
  • Summary: The show had a huge influence, leading to the existence of successful plus-size and diverse models today, which was not the case when the show began. However, the core high-fashion industry still operates on a narrow cookie-cutter standard for samples because designers cannot afford to produce multiple sizes for press. Nigel Barker experienced pushback from high-fashion magazines who viewed the show as too commercial, causing him to lose some exclusive work.
Industry Resistance to ANTM
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(00:55:03)
  • Key Takeaway: The fashion industry’s initial resistance to America’s Next Top Model caused Nigel Barker’s high-end magazine career trajectory to waver.
  • Summary: Magazines initially disapproved of Nigel Barker’s involvement in reality television, causing a temporary halt to his work with high-end publications. This shift led to an increase in corporate and commercial jobs for him. American Vogue only became involved with America’s Next Top Model by Cycle 12, despite the show reaching 100 million people, because magazines needed the show to maintain relevance as subscriptions declined.
Reality TV Precursor to Social Media
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(01:04:41)
  • Key Takeaway: Reality television acted as a precursor to social media by showcasing brutal truth and honesty, contrasting with polished media.
  • Summary: Reality television introduced the concept of showing behind-the-scenes honesty, which was different from the highly polished results seen in magazines. Nigel Barker noted that this format was a nod to the rising trend of social media influence. He also observed that winners of ANTM often do not succeed as much as runners-up, suggesting success relies heavily on the individual’s ability to market themselves post-show.
Relationship with Tyra Banks
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(00:59:43)
  • Key Takeaway: Nigel Barker maintains a cordial, though infrequent, relationship with Tyra Banks, noting her public outbursts contrast with her private aversion to confrontation.
  • Summary: Nigel speaks with Tyra once or twice a year, and interactions are always cordial. He observed that Tyra’s explosive moments on the show were uncharacteristic of her private nature, as she dislikes public confrontation. Barker felt hurt by the way the judges were released from the show, realizing he was replaceable, but ultimately viewed it as business.
Tyra’s Executive Producer Role
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(01:01:26)
  • Key Takeaway: Tyra Banks was deeply and actively involved in every aspect of America’s Next Top Model, holding very close reins as executive producer.
  • Summary: Unlike some executive producers who only lend their name, Tyra touched every part of the show and was micromanaging much of what happened. She was vested because she created the show and wanted to make a difference, which caused judges like Barker to step back and support her vision. Barker believes audiences will hopefully be sympathetic to her involvement when viewing the documentary.
Fashion Rapid Fire Opinions
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(01:04:40)
  • Key Takeaway: Nigel Barker values attitude and owning one’s style over adhering to specific fashion ‘crimes,’ preferring logo-free attire and androgyny in fashion.
  • Summary: Barker prefers skinny belts over skinny scarves and believes the worst fashion crime is not owning the look, regardless of the item chosen. He favors logo-free clothing and finds the ‘clean girl aesthetic’ boring. He advocates for a return to androgyny in fashion, similar to the ‘heroin chic’ era, as it opened doors for diverse types of people.
Nigel Promotes Espresso Martini
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(01:08:04)
  • Key Takeaway: Nigel Barker launched an espresso martini company called The Barker Company, available online and in liquor stores, to accompany viewing of America’s Next Top Model.
  • Summary: Barker suggests viewers shake up one of his Barker Company espresso martinis while watching the ANTM documentary for the full experience. The product is available at barkermartinis.com and in major liquor retailers like Total Wine. This promotion follows the launch of his podcast, The Shaken and Sturd Show.
Listener Reaction to ANTM Toxicity
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(01:11:12)
  • Key Takeaway: Listeners reflect that while America’s Next Top Model was toxic, it was less extreme than other reality shows of the era, yet it still negatively impacted their views on body image.
  • Summary: Listeners recalled shows like The Biggest Loser and The Swan as being more overtly toxic, involving extreme plastic surgery or weight loss camps. They acknowledged that the modeling industry was extremely toxic, with agents demanding weight loss from young contestants. The conversation highlighted that reality TV is now more structured, moving away from the ‘documentary’ style that allowed for boundary-pushing.
Reality TV Credibility vs. Access
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(01:16:35)
  • Key Takeaway: The curse of reality TV stars, exemplified by ANTM contestants, is gaining incredible access while simultaneously losing professional credibility.
  • Summary: Contestants often found that being on television prevented modeling agencies from booking them, as they were viewed only as reality TV stars, not legitimate models. This lack of credibility meant the show did not deliver on the promised illustrious modeling careers for many women. This dynamic is changing, as seen with newer reality stars who are now being treated as legitimate celebrities.
Kevan’s Love Triangle Experience
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(01:19:52)
  • Key Takeaway: Kevan admitted he fumbled his love triangle by over-communicating his feelings for both women, leading to insecurity and ultimately his departure without engagement.
  • Summary: Kevan regretted not being more direct with Tyler about his feelings for Kia, realizing his lack of reassurance caused her to leave. He confirmed he would have proposed to Tyler if she had stayed, but he would not have proposed to Kia in that moment, viewing their final conversation as seeking closure. He kept the symbolic watch, which serves as a reminder to be more direct and vulnerable in future dating.
Advice on Dating Multiple People
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(01:37:24)
  • Key Takeaway: Kevan advises listeners caught in a love triangle to trust their gut, be direct about their primary feelings, and avoid comparing options, as distraction leads to poor outcomes.
  • Summary: Men often know who they like more but hesitate to commit to avoid losing the other person, leading to comparison and distraction from too many options. He stressed that if genuine feelings exist for someone, one must put their foot down and clearly communicate needs. Kevan’s experience taught him that vulnerability and expressing feelings are crucial, lessons he plans to apply moving forward.
Alex’s Flirting and Attraction Issues
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(01:50:13)
  • Key Takeaway: Alex’s constant self-questioning about attraction suggests he is unconvinced by his feelings for Ashley, despite being engaged.
  • Summary: Alex’s communication style indicates he is unsure of his feelings but avoids acknowledging it, leading to confusing interactions with Brittany. His attraction type seems inconsistent, shifting from initial focus on Ashley’s eyes to later stating a preference for brunettes. The hosts suggest that people who grew up attractive often default to being natural flirts, even when trying to be ‘just nice’ in a committed relationship.
Brittany and Devontae’s Disconnect
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(01:53:15)
  • Key Takeaway: Devontae’s resistance to physical affection, exemplified by rejecting a hickey offer, signals a fundamental incompatibility with Brittany’s needs.
  • Summary: The conversation between Brittany and Devontae reached an impasse where his inability to meet her expressed needs felt like arguing with a wall. Devontae’s response suggests he is either an extreme introvert needing space or genuinely not into Brittany, making the relationship unsustainable in the experiment’s context. This dynamic mirrors past Love Is Blind couples where one partner needed constant reassurance or physical contact that the other could not provide.
Brie’s Post-Engagement Behavior
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(01:54:33)
  • Key Takeaway: Brie’s eagerness to seek closure with Chris after getting engaged to Connor is interpreted as regret and an attempt to validate her feelings by influencing others.
  • Summary: Brie is criticized for being too needy and trying to gaslight the cast by suggesting they should also explore their other connections, implying her regret is the norm. The hosts question if the Love Is Blind engagement is truly binding, noting that the post-reveal interactions felt like the experiment was still ongoing. Brie’s actions suggest she wanted cast support to explore her feelings for Chris without facing judgment for regretting her decision.
Amber’s Iconic Reveal Pose
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(01:57:42)
  • Key Takeaway: Amber’s dramatic silhouette pose during the reveal was a planned, intentional move that aligns with her overall ‘diva’ persona.
  • Summary: The hosts laughed about Amber’s practiced, full-silhouette pose behind the curtain, noting it was a planned moment. They speculate whether producers prompted the pose or if Amber executed it based on her own pre-conceived plan. The hosts express hope that Amber and her partner, whom they like, do not get ‘ruined’ in upcoming episodes.
RHOBH Recap: Hamptons Trip
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(01:59:20)
  • Key Takeaway: Rachel Zoe orchestrated a ‘parent-trap’ trip to the Hamptons to mend Kyle and Dorit’s friendship, while Erica Jayne was notably excluded.
  • Summary: Rachel Zoe planned a trip to the Hamptons to fix the friendship between Kyle and Dorit, who are struggling due to Dorit’s ongoing divorce issues with PK. Erica Jayne expressed annoyance at not being invited, despite being part of the core group, especially since Donna Karen, an old friend of Rachel’s, was present.
Amanda vs. Bose Philosophy Clash
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(02:01:26)
  • Key Takeaway: Bose, representing hard work and business acumen, fundamentally clashes with Amanda’s ‘vibes’ and manifestation-based philosophy of success.
  • Summary: Bose, who is Type A, manages money, and understands business, finds Amanda’s success narrative—that she manifested everything from her Malibu Barbie house—incomprehensible. Amanda’s reliance on her personal story as inspiration doesn’t land with those who value active goal-setting, leading to tension at their manifestation dinner. Bose directly challenged Amanda’s narrative by pointing out she invited Dorit despite claiming she didn’t manifest her presence.
Dorit’s PK Allegations and Mo’s Credibility
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(02:05:37)
  • Key Takeaway: Mo’s pragmatic defense of PK regarding text messages made him appear highly credible, undermining Dorit’s claims about PK’s alleged isolation tactics.
  • Summary: The hosts largely sided with Mo’s perspective, finding Dorit’s insistence on checking spreadsheets for evidence unconvincing compared to Mo stating he reviewed the text thread directly on PK’s phone. Dorit’s narrative paints PK as inaccessible, hiding money, and avoiding the children, which Mo countered by noting PK was only having a glass or two of wine, not getting ‘plastered.’ The conversation is deemed messy for television because it involves two conflicting truths stemming from a contentious separation.
Sutton’s Vulnerability on Annulment
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(02:10:23)
  • Key Takeaway: Sutton sharing her experience of obtaining a religious annulment and changing her last name was a brave, vulnerable moment of taking back personal power.
  • Summary: Sutton’s discussion about her annulment, which is separate from the legal process, was highlighted as an important topic rarely seen on TV. For someone raised in that religion, having the church declare the marriage never existed is emotionally difficult, especially when changing her name away from her children’s surname. This act symbolizes Sutton stepping into herself and reclaiming power during a period of transition.