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[00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:01.120] Hey, this is Festies.
[00:00:01.120 --> 00:00:02.720] Welcome back to Female Founder World.
[00:00:02.720 --> 00:00:03.520] I'm Jasmine.
[00:00:03.520 --> 00:00:07.440] I'm the host of the show and the person behind all things Female Founder World.
[00:00:07.440 --> 00:00:08.960] And we're doing things a little bit different today.
[00:00:08.960 --> 00:00:11.120] I've got some newsy stuff I wanted to cover.
[00:00:11.120 --> 00:00:16.560] And so I've brought in Barbara, who is the leadership coach that I've been working with forever now.
[00:00:16.560 --> 00:00:17.920] You've seen her in the group chat.
[00:00:17.920 --> 00:00:20.240] She's hosted calls with us before.
[00:00:20.240 --> 00:00:22.080] Barbara, did I tick off everything?
[00:00:22.240 --> 00:00:24.400] How else would you describe the work that you do?
[00:00:24.400 --> 00:00:26.240] So my background's in education.
[00:00:26.240 --> 00:00:31.760] I have a doctorate in org leadership and now work with startup founders through massive growth and change moments.
[00:00:31.760 --> 00:00:38.640] And essentially what that looks like is ensuring that you as a founder are growing at the same rate that your company is.
[00:00:38.640 --> 00:00:41.680] Otherwise, we become our own growth ceilings.
[00:00:41.680 --> 00:00:47.440] Yeah, so you're on WhatsApp with me all the time, just like ya asking to me complain and solving my problems.
[00:00:47.440 --> 00:00:49.680] And also talking about stuff like this.
[00:00:49.680 --> 00:00:59.120] We love a voice note, but also talking about stories like what we're going to cover today because you and I think are both like very passionate and interested in this space.
[00:00:59.120 --> 00:01:02.640] And so we've got a couple of newsy headlines that we're going to cover and I want to talk about.
[00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:05.680] But first, do you have a resource recommendation for us?
[00:01:05.680 --> 00:01:12.160] I have one that I want to share and I thought I'd kick it off at the top of the show if you've got something interesting you've been using that you think folks should check out.
[00:01:12.800 --> 00:01:15.680] I would definitely recommend Firefly's AI.
[00:01:15.680 --> 00:01:17.360] So I use it as like a note taker.
[00:01:17.360 --> 00:01:18.960] I think a lot of people do now.
[00:01:18.960 --> 00:01:30.480] I've tested so many, but aside from capturing the notes themselves, what I've been doing is also recommending it as a way to give yourself like communication feedback.
[00:01:30.480 --> 00:01:38.960] A lot of people are working on their feedback as founders and just developing that and having some sort of a note capture there that you can also prompt.
[00:01:38.960 --> 00:01:40.400] There's this thing called Fred in there.
[00:01:40.400 --> 00:01:44.960] So you can ask them, here's, you know, should I work on this or this?
[00:01:44.960 --> 00:01:55.920] So I think just having, especially as a solo founder, having another set of either eyes or ears there that can give you feedback on something that is happening real time in the moment.
[00:01:55.920 --> 00:02:03.160] I also have an AI recommendation and it's one of those things I know that when I feel nervous about recommending something because I'm like, oh, it's so good.
[00:02:03.160 --> 00:02:06.520] And I know that our competitors are going to listen to this and all start using it as well.
[00:02:06.520 --> 00:02:08.680] Then I know I have to share it because it is so good.
[00:02:08.680 --> 00:02:12.760] So Natalie on our team, she does a lot of our video content and a bunch of other stuff.
[00:02:12.760 --> 00:02:17.160] And she went to this workshop with YouTube a little while ago.
[00:02:17.160 --> 00:02:24.840] And everyone was telling her that she needed to start using Opus AI for her short form video editing and to create clips.
[00:02:24.840 --> 00:02:27.880] And she started using it like in the last couple of weeks.
[00:02:27.880 --> 00:02:33.240] And we've been able to create so much more content from our kind of like longer form videos.
[00:02:33.240 --> 00:02:42.120] And so if anyone is doing YouTube, vlogging, podcast with video, go and try this tool to get more short form videos because it's really good.
[00:02:42.120 --> 00:02:42.680] Oh, I love it.
[00:02:42.680 --> 00:02:43.240] I need to try it.
[00:02:43.240 --> 00:02:44.280] I just want to mess with it.
[00:02:44.280 --> 00:02:45.160] Yeah, it's 100%.
[00:02:45.160 --> 00:02:46.280] Just like get in there and play with it.
[00:02:46.280 --> 00:02:47.080] It's great.
[00:02:47.080 --> 00:02:52.440] Okay, so the first thing I want to talk to you about today is this story that I think is just dominating on TikTok.
[00:02:52.440 --> 00:02:57.320] And I'm going to give some background for everyone who is just not as chronically online as I am.
[00:02:57.320 --> 00:03:11.480] But it's about Park, Odd Muse, China, and some very noisy TikTok takedowns that have been happening the last few weeks and really been making me think about the costs versus the benefits of trying to build your business in public.
[00:03:11.480 --> 00:03:19.160] So things, just for the backstory, things really started when this TikTok creator, her name, her handle is Sustainable Fashion Friend.
[00:03:19.480 --> 00:03:23.560] She posted this deep dive onto a fashion brand called Park, which I think a lot of you guys know.
[00:03:23.560 --> 00:03:26.360] You should go and listen to my interview with the founder Chelsea.
[00:03:26.360 --> 00:03:29.880] It's from a few episodes ago, so you don't have to scroll far.
[00:03:29.880 --> 00:03:32.040] But that video has had millions and millions of views.
[00:03:32.040 --> 00:03:33.320] It's had heaps of reposts.
[00:03:33.320 --> 00:03:35.240] It's had spin-offs and hot takes.
[00:03:35.240 --> 00:03:48.240] And in the video, the creator basically dives into screenshots from the founder of Park, Chelsea, her videos to pinpoint where Park is sourcing its sweatshirts and its denim and claiming that it's all sourcing from Alibaba.
[00:03:48.560 --> 00:03:57.840] And I think most of our business besties know what Alibaba is, but it is essentially you know, it's a marketplace, it's where brands connect with manufacturers overseas.
[00:03:57.840 --> 00:04:21.120] And she posted this breakdown for Park, she did another one for another fashion brand called Daily Drills, and it's become one of many posts that I think are trying to de-influence women and really question the hype around these really popular TikTok brands like Park, Daily Drills, Dairy Boys, these brands that are known for their logo sweatshirts.
[00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:23.040] And so, this is kind of how it all started.
[00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:32.960] But then, after this drama all kicked off, and I was kind of watching it, and I wasn't, I wasn't going to talk about it on the show because I was like, oh, yeah, like we see, you know, we see this kind of stuff happen all the time, whatever, whatever.
[00:04:33.280 --> 00:04:42.080] But then, a different creator posted, I think, kind of like saw the virality of this post and did a deep dive on a UK fashion brand called Odd Muse.
[00:04:42.080 --> 00:04:49.680] You should go and follow Odd Muse and its founder, Amy, if you're not already, because she is a prolific content creator.
[00:04:49.680 --> 00:04:53.280] And when it comes to building in public, she's just doing it so, so well.
[00:04:53.280 --> 00:04:58.720] But this other creator accused them of greenwashing using unsustainable practices and materials.
[00:04:58.720 --> 00:05:08.480] And the founder, Amy, has been really, she's responded like quite actively, whereas kind of the other brands have been a little bit more quiet, not responding.
[00:05:08.480 --> 00:05:13.920] Amy is someone who has taken us behind the scenes before to visit her manufacturers in China.
[00:05:13.920 --> 00:05:16.080] We've met the partners that she works with.
[00:05:16.080 --> 00:05:17.200] She clearly adores them.
[00:05:17.200 --> 00:05:20.960] She's clearly super affected by these accusations.
[00:05:20.960 --> 00:05:24.560] And it really is going very, very viral at the moment.
[00:05:24.560 --> 00:05:26.480] And that's why I wanted to talk about it.
[00:05:26.480 --> 00:05:29.840] And I'm wondering if you saw this go down in the last week or so, Barbara.
[00:05:29.840 --> 00:05:31.000] Yeah, I've seen it.
[00:05:31.000 --> 00:05:31.480] I've seen it.
[00:05:31.480 --> 00:05:32.840] And it hurts to watch.
[00:05:32.840 --> 00:05:34.280] It absolutely hurts to watch.
[00:05:34.280 --> 00:05:41.480] And just like how much these women pour into their companies and the work that they do, I think is an incredible thing.
[00:05:41.480 --> 00:05:51.800] I also think that before we dive into it, even as you named like who is running this, it's are female founders being more targeted than male founders?
[00:05:51.800 --> 00:05:53.160] Yes, absolutely.
[00:05:53.160 --> 00:05:55.720] Is it also being done by other women?
[00:05:55.720 --> 00:05:56.520] Yes.
[00:05:56.840 --> 00:06:01.080] And like that, I think, is an important thing to name here.
[00:06:01.480 --> 00:06:05.080] But I talk a lot about like this idea of building in public and leading in public.
[00:06:05.080 --> 00:06:09.320] And I think that both Chelsea and Amy are just playing at a very different level.
[00:06:09.320 --> 00:06:12.360] They've grown these massive companies, had incredible traction.
[00:06:12.680 --> 00:06:21.240] And when you're playing at that level, you're really going to receive that level of pushback, what I think is no matter what.
[00:06:21.240 --> 00:06:32.600] Whether it's internally, whether it's from a board, whether it's from your community, from the people you're serving, from people that buy from you, from people that don't, like either one.
[00:06:32.920 --> 00:06:37.080] I think it's something that has always been there when you're at that level.
[00:06:37.080 --> 00:06:48.120] I think it's so in our face right now because there is a TikTok, there is an Instagram where people can voice their opinions and share and other people can see it.
[00:06:48.120 --> 00:06:52.760] And it creates this like massive traction that is so difficult to navigate.
[00:06:52.760 --> 00:06:55.320] And I think it's not just that, is it true?
[00:06:55.320 --> 00:06:56.360] Is it not true?
[00:06:56.360 --> 00:07:12.680] It's actually, I would say, it's arguably harder if it isn't true because then you have everything that you've worked for, you have your core values questioned, you have, you know, put so much time into making this incredible product being questioned.
[00:07:12.680 --> 00:07:18.160] And there's almost like nothing that you can say to make it better other than just letting it happen.
[00:07:14.920 --> 00:07:19.760] I wasn't sure if I wanted to talk about this.
[00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:26.080] Like, I didn't want to add to the noise of this kind of pylon that's going on.
[00:07:26.080 --> 00:07:28.480] And again, like, I'm not, let's just, let's just put this out there.
[00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:31.360] I'm not a sustainable sourcing expert.
[00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:34.400] I'm actually not here to weigh in on that.
[00:07:34.400 --> 00:07:49.680] Although I think it is actually really important to note that The Cut did a story on Park last week, like a few days ago, and they interviewed Chelsea and she said, we don't white label our products, like we go through multiple rounds of design iterations, blah, blah, blah.
[00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:52.720] Like it's not just something that's bought off Alibaba.
[00:07:52.720 --> 00:07:57.920] And it's also important to note that a lot of brands use third-party manufacturers overseas and in Asia.
[00:07:57.920 --> 00:07:59.840] That's actually really common.
[00:07:59.840 --> 00:08:18.640] But I wanted to talk about it because of this, I don't know, as someone who is trying to show up on these platforms and really wants to feel confident about doing it, I keep seeing this stuff happen and it's like, it like triggers something subconsciously in me where it makes me not want to post that draft.
[00:08:19.280 --> 00:08:20.960] And I mean, you're my leadership, Chris.
[00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:23.200] You're the person that I talk to about this.
[00:08:23.200 --> 00:08:25.440] And that's why I went for everyone.
[00:08:25.760 --> 00:08:30.320] And I feel like I'm not the only person who's sitting here watching this and having that response to it.
[00:08:30.320 --> 00:08:37.920] And then, you know, like Chelsea didn't really respond to this aside from that article from the cut, because I think she's been through this so many times before that she doesn't feel like she needs to.
[00:08:37.920 --> 00:08:52.080] And it was also really interesting, you mentioned before, whether it's you're being called out by customers or your board or not your customers, it does seem like customers from Park and Oddmuse are both really coming to their defense in the comments, particularly Oddmoose.
[00:08:52.800 --> 00:08:56.160] They are not having it, which I think is really, really interesting.
[00:08:56.160 --> 00:09:04.280] I mean, I, in a much, on a much smaller scale, I've been dragged on Twitter for like my leadership practices.
[00:09:04.280 --> 00:09:04.520] Yeah.
[00:09:05.240 --> 00:09:05.560] Yeah.
[00:09:05.560 --> 00:09:06.120] Yeah.
[00:09:06.440 --> 00:09:20.840] It was like for hiring practices, for decisions I had made, and people that had worked with me that were employees of mine that were rallying the troops outside and just like it's a horrible feeling.
[00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:33.240] One, it feels like, especially for really high-achieving women, and that like there's this sense of control that we work so hard to, it feels so out of your control and like so outer body.
[00:09:33.240 --> 00:09:42.440] And like, I think we learned so many times that, well, if you just work hard and you're a good person, you'll get far and like people will respect you.
[00:09:42.440 --> 00:09:45.400] And I think 99% of the time that's true.
[00:09:45.400 --> 00:09:55.480] And then like that 1%, and I, and you know, we talk about this a lot, it's just if you let that one or two percent feel like the 98, they absolutely will.
[00:09:55.480 --> 00:10:07.720] So like here in these instances, it's not so much is the creator dragging this person on TikTok, it's how much are we letting that person consume what we do?
[00:10:07.720 --> 00:10:13.880] Is it taking away from like everything that is it taking away from my focus in the morning when I'm preparing for a launch?
[00:10:13.880 --> 00:10:22.120] Is it taking away from like my focus on the 98, 99% of people that do absolutely love and adore these brands?
[00:10:22.120 --> 00:10:23.400] Because it's so distracting.
[00:10:23.400 --> 00:10:27.640] And I had to work with my leadership coach to be like, what the hell?
[00:10:27.640 --> 00:10:28.680] What am I doing here?
[00:10:28.680 --> 00:10:30.760] Like, it's so hard to get out of that space.
[00:10:30.760 --> 00:10:32.520] So I feel for them.
[00:10:32.520 --> 00:10:37.640] And I think in these instances, and for people listening that are also scared, it is a scary thing.
[00:10:37.640 --> 00:10:41.080] Is you just have to do it anyway.
[00:10:41.080 --> 00:10:52.320] Because I think that the story that you put out there and the things that you share and the way that you connect are so much more powerful than what one person can take away from it.
[00:10:52.480 --> 00:10:57.600] I've been in female founder world for quite some time, you know, over a year.
[00:10:57.600 --> 00:11:05.680] And I think it's so incredible to see the connection that these founders have to why they're starting a company.
[00:11:05.680 --> 00:11:10.160] Whether it's, you know, they experienced something themselves, they didn't see something.
[00:11:10.160 --> 00:11:12.720] Like it's, it's so deeply connected.
[00:11:12.720 --> 00:11:16.320] And I think the more that we share that story, it's just so powerful.
[00:11:16.320 --> 00:11:22.720] And it gives you a sense of power as well to share your story and be vulnerable.
[00:11:22.720 --> 00:11:33.360] But I think that I've found the deepest work that I've been able to, like the traction that I've been able to gain with people has to happen with me at the forefront.
[00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:38.560] It doesn't have to mean it's on Instagram or TikTok, but find your way.
[00:11:38.880 --> 00:11:42.320] What do you mean when you say it doesn't have to happen on Instagram or TikTok?
[00:11:42.320 --> 00:11:45.920] Because I've seen you write about this a little bit and it is interesting.
[00:11:45.920 --> 00:11:53.440] This idea of like, yes, you need to be at the forefront of your brand, but that doesn't mean necessarily that you need to be like vlogging.
[00:11:53.440 --> 00:11:58.000] I think that your leadership voice and your founder voice is like an is like an ecosystem.
[00:11:58.000 --> 00:12:21.880] It lives everywhere and anywhere, whether it's you're out to dinner with your girlfriends, whether you are trying to DM somebody to be on your board of advisors and you want them to advise you and then they're going to go be your champion, whether it's walking into like a networking event or an event, and you're like constantly putting your brand at the forefront.
[00:12:21.440 --> 00:12:31.640] Like, like where women are just championing their brand and they have their, they have the tote, they have their like cars, they have samples, and they know like that is your founder voice.
[00:12:31.960 --> 00:12:36.680] What makes me happier than seeing a founder walk into Female Founder World Summit with their branded tote?
[00:12:36.680 --> 00:12:44.360] They've got their samples, they're gonna like go up to the speakers afterwards and they make sure that they tried the sample, introduce themselves, and they're just representing it.
[00:12:44.360 --> 00:12:46.680] I love it, and like not everyone's doing that, right?
[00:12:46.680 --> 00:12:48.120] Like, not everyone is doing that.
[00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:52.760] And I think that is your founder voice, that is putting yourself out there.
[00:12:52.760 --> 00:13:02.120] I am sure that Chelsea and Amy have both been doing that well before putting this on it on TikTok or on the show.
[00:13:02.280 --> 00:13:07.320] I mean, they only wear their brands, yes, yes, and I love that.
[00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:12.600] How does someone find out what that founder voice is and how they show up as that?
[00:13:12.600 --> 00:13:15.240] Like, how would you prompt me to think about that?
[00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:17.400] I can share it, we can share this resource with the community as well.
[00:13:18.040 --> 00:13:23.320] Um, I love to start out with like a spin on a traditional plot diagram.
[00:13:23.320 --> 00:13:30.040] I do this with founders all the time, it's like you know, rising action kind of climax, falling action.
[00:13:30.040 --> 00:13:43.160] I add a few things in there, but whenever I sit down and do that with founders, it's always the smallest, most intricate things that like were actually a really major part of their story that got them here.
[00:13:43.480 --> 00:13:49.560] And knowing, so I would say, first, knowing what those are is definitely number one.
[00:13:49.560 --> 00:14:03.240] Because I think we can tend to say, Oh, like I can do, you know, my pitch or my intro or whatever that may be, but we lose the part of the story that is so deeply connected to the emotional side of why we launched in the first place.
[00:14:03.240 --> 00:14:10.440] Like, we forget that one moment where we were sitting in the room crying and we couldn't figure out how to blink, you know.
[00:14:10.440 --> 00:14:15.200] We don't tell that part, but that part is what hooks people, connects people.
[00:14:15.280 --> 00:14:23.120] And I don't just mean a hook in, like, again, I don't just mean a hook in a TikTok, where you captivate people, even if it's three or four people.
[00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:32.400] Because that three or four person group could also be an editor at Vogue, could also be somebody that knows somebody, that knows somebody.
[00:14:32.400 --> 00:14:41.280] Like, I've met with somebody and then they were talking about my work in rooms, and then I got an email from somebody, and they're like, oh, so-and-so was talking about you.
[00:14:41.280 --> 00:15:01.600] Those are the magical moments that if you have captivated the attention of that person and you've given them enough stuff to then go tell that story again, they then become a champion of your brand in the same way that a repost happens, or somebody tags somebody with the dress on.
[00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:04.560] Like, those things still happen in real life.
[00:15:04.560 --> 00:15:07.200] And I don't think that we, I think that we forget that.
[00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:08.480] And I think we have to hold on to that.
[00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:19.680] So, I definitely storyboard, sit down, look for those small moments, and then think about, okay, which pieces do I share with who?
[00:15:19.680 --> 00:15:22.160] I also recommend start just recording.
[00:15:22.160 --> 00:15:29.200] It doesn't matter if you're going to post it, it doesn't matter where you're just getting those reps in of telling your story out loud.
[00:15:29.200 --> 00:15:32.160] And you said that you have an A or something that people can access.
[00:15:32.160 --> 00:15:34.560] Okay, we'll put that in the show notes so people can go and download that.
[00:15:34.560 --> 00:15:34.880] Amazing.
[00:15:34.880 --> 00:15:37.120] We love a freebie to go with the episode.
[00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:42.960] So, the next thing I want to talk to you about is the rise of the female founder podcast and what this means.
[00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:47.760] We saw Emma Greed, the CEO of the Kardashian Fashion Empire, she launched a podcast.
[00:15:47.760 --> 00:15:53.680] The Unwell Network, which is the podcast network by Alex Cooper, they launched a pod called The Burnouts.
[00:15:53.680 --> 00:15:56.360] Megan Markle, she launched a podcast.
[00:15:56.360 --> 00:16:03.720] It's all about interviews with female founders, and this is all just happened in the last like one, maybe two months.
[00:16:03.720 --> 00:16:04.840] And then Inc.
[00:15:59.760 --> 00:16:06.040] wrote a story about it.
[00:16:06.360 --> 00:16:18.440] And the reason why this is so interesting to me, beyond, I think, the obvious that I also have a show and a media company in this space, is that I do think it indicates a tone shift.
[00:16:18.440 --> 00:16:20.040] And I wanted to talk to you about this.
[00:16:20.040 --> 00:16:27.720] So when I started Female Founder World a few years ago, this was coming off the end of the Girl Boss era.
[00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:38.920] And I mean that literally, a lot of people don't even remember that there was an actual company, media company, or there is a media company called Girl Boss that was run by Sophia Amaruso.
[00:16:38.920 --> 00:16:47.400] And that kind of all became very, felt very like dated and we'd moved away from this hustle girl boss culture.
[00:16:47.400 --> 00:16:49.720] It was when the big pushback was happening at the Wing.
[00:16:49.720 --> 00:16:52.120] Do you remember that co-working space in New York?
[00:16:52.600 --> 00:16:57.400] There was just, it was just like bad vibes around being a female founder.
[00:16:57.400 --> 00:17:01.480] And we started in that wave and around that time.
[00:17:01.480 --> 00:17:10.680] And I was kind of like, well, I actually really need, I really need to learn this business content from somewhere and in a way that isn't just manifestation and vibes.
[00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:14.440] Like I actually need someone to speak this to me in a way that feels really actionable and helpful.
[00:17:14.440 --> 00:17:17.000] And that's how we started.
[00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:25.640] And it's so interesting to me because I feel like everything is cyclical in culture and we're seeing this kind of resurgence.
[00:17:25.640 --> 00:17:37.000] We're coming back now where I think because of what we were just talking about with the rise of this public-facing female founder on TikTok and the fact that everyone needs a side hustle now because things are more expensive.
[00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:43.320] It just seems like this unapologetic ambition is just back in a way that it hasn't been.
[00:17:43.320 --> 00:17:46.320] And I'm curious about whether you've noticed this as well.
[00:17:46.320 --> 00:17:47.840] Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely.
[00:17:47.840 --> 00:17:51.120] And I love, we were just talking about even story and storyboarding.
[00:17:51.120 --> 00:17:55.600] I love even this part of your story and hearing that just like context to it.
[00:17:55.600 --> 00:18:04.640] But how does it feel on your end as somebody who is building a media company and also sees this rise?
[00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:11.360] And also somebody that is like a massive advocate for women in leadership, women as founders.
[00:18:11.360 --> 00:18:13.440] Like, what does it feel like for you?
[00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:18.880] When Megan Markle's podcast dropped, I got so many DMs from people.
[00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:27.760] And I love you for this, but people being like, she's copying you, and that, you know, and no, I do not feel, I do not feel like that.
[00:18:27.760 --> 00:18:31.280] I don't think she knows who, what female founder world is.
[00:18:31.280 --> 00:18:34.160] But I have two responses to it.
[00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:44.560] Like, I feel like my first response is a very human, like, oh, God, can the famous people just stop coaching in and just stick to the famous people stuff?
[00:18:44.560 --> 00:18:51.120] And that's actually the response I often have when celebrities start a tequila brand or start a beauty brand.
[00:18:51.120 --> 00:19:03.120] And I know that there has been some independent female founder who has been hustling in that for years, doing an amazing job, but doesn't get the spotlight or the funding or any of it because she hasn't got the platform.
[00:19:03.120 --> 00:19:06.640] And so there's a little bit of, like, I do feel a little bit of that sometimes.
[00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:12.480] But I was sitting in my car actually the other day thinking about having this conversation with you.
[00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:15.280] And I was like, how do I actually feel about it?
[00:19:15.280 --> 00:19:27.920] And I think the response genuinely now is like, I do think that as a category matures or more people come into your space, it does force you to get better.
[00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:40.440] And if you're doing, if you're in this game and you're doing this because you want to create really, really good work, I think that having more competition only pushes you to be better.
[00:19:40.440 --> 00:19:41.480] It really does.
[00:19:41.800 --> 00:19:46.680] And so that's kind of the way that I'm thinking about it now, where I'm like, okay, we've been at this for a few years now.
[00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:52.440] We need to be able to level up to be able to compete with all of these new voices in the space.
[00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:53.800] And what does that mean?
[00:19:53.800 --> 00:19:59.240] And that's genuinely how I'm choosing to think about it of like, okay, this is actually just going to make me better.
[00:19:59.240 --> 00:20:00.360] And that is my life goal.
[00:20:00.360 --> 00:20:02.840] I want to do this really, really well, whatever I do.
[00:20:02.840 --> 00:20:09.880] I think a lot of people, we're seeing a lot of brands start in all different categories.
[00:20:09.880 --> 00:20:25.400] And I think that it can get really overwhelming to see someone who maybe has a bigger following than you or they're an Efo baby or they have access to all this money or they've got a rich husband or like whatever and they've just got access and privilege that you don't.
[00:20:25.400 --> 00:20:30.200] I think it can feel really, really disheartening and steer you off course.
[00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:36.840] But I do implore people just to let it raise the bar rather than kind of kick you out of the game.
[00:20:36.840 --> 00:20:38.760] That's how I'm choosing to think about it.
[00:20:38.760 --> 00:20:39.640] Are you proud of me for this?
[00:20:39.880 --> 00:20:42.200] And I love the honest reaction to it.
[00:20:42.200 --> 00:20:52.360] Yeah, no, and I love that like human sharing Jasmine at the forefront because I know that everyone listening has had that one experience where they're building something and they see someone else.
[00:20:52.360 --> 00:20:53.480] Just like, really?
[00:20:53.480 --> 00:20:53.880] Yeah.
[00:20:54.200 --> 00:20:55.160] Do you have to?
[00:20:55.800 --> 00:20:57.800] Can you just make another movie?
[00:20:57.800 --> 00:20:58.840] Yep.
[00:21:00.120 --> 00:21:01.240] No, I love that.
[00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:05.560] It also makes you, I think, like really drill down and clarify, like, okay, why do we exist?
[00:21:05.560 --> 00:21:07.480] What is that really clear point of view?
[00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:08.440] Why do we exist?
[00:21:08.440 --> 00:21:10.560] And just really focus in on it.
[00:21:10.560 --> 00:21:16.880] Because that's the thing that kind of your very specific why and who you're serving is, I don't know, the thing no one can take away from you.
[00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:18.640] You just have to stay laser focused on it.
[00:21:18.640 --> 00:21:19.760] And it's so hard.
[00:21:19.760 --> 00:21:21.600] Like it is so hard, I think.
[00:21:14.680 --> 00:21:21.840] Yeah.
[00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:27.120] Do you remember, this was probably, I want to say like eight months ago now.
[00:21:27.120 --> 00:21:36.160] Maybe not that long, but you and I did this exercise and I was saying to you, I'm like, I feel like I'm getting so distracted by competitors and really like disheartened.
[00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:37.680] And we did an exercise together.
[00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:38.480] What did we do?
[00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:42.560] It was like to help me like a circuit break when I'm spiraling.
[00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:51.200] The most immediate thing is, and we got to this point, I think, after what I'll talk about in a second, but there's so much energy that goes into that, right?
[00:21:51.600 --> 00:21:56.320] We could doom scroll for forever and just like search this person and this person, this person.
[00:21:56.320 --> 00:21:58.240] And that requires a level of energy.
[00:21:58.240 --> 00:22:06.320] So we said, okay, let's, everyone has their, you know, their notes app of developing ideas or of things they have to work on.
[00:22:06.320 --> 00:22:10.240] If you're on a walk or one, I think it was like change location.
[00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:18.240] It doesn't have to be go on a walk, but like if you're in the kitchen, move to your bedroom, move to the living room, go to the bathroom, whatever it may be, like change location.
[00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:34.640] And then also open up that note, that notes app or open up wherever it is, because then I think it automatically takes you to your creative space and that creative part of your brain versus the like competition comparison spiral.
[00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:37.200] And it's just like you said, like a circuit break.
[00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:43.120] You're just kind of like switching and it's very cold turkey, just kind of like a small move.
[00:22:43.120 --> 00:22:50.080] But if you're able to, at least open that and spend just a couple minutes, like developing one of the ideas that are underdeveloped.
[00:22:50.080 --> 00:23:05.560] And the other thing that I've done now with a few founders is when the compare, like where this comparison game takes a toll the most, I would say, is when it deters you and it distracts you from what you were originally set out to do in the first place.
[00:23:06.200 --> 00:23:11.240] And sometimes, in a guided way, you just have to go on that journey.
[00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:15.240] Like, okay, what would it be if we did all of these things?
[00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:17.640] We had spent weeks doing that, by the way.
[00:23:17.640 --> 00:23:18.840] Yep, you and I.
[00:23:19.080 --> 00:23:20.840] Like, yeah, we did.
[00:23:20.840 --> 00:23:21.320] We did.
[00:23:21.320 --> 00:23:24.600] We're like, okay, let's do like this whole thing.
[00:23:25.960 --> 00:23:33.320] And then you return back to, okay, no, now I am certain that it is what I said in the first place.
[00:23:33.320 --> 00:23:34.680] And you're not alone in that, Jasmine.
[00:23:34.680 --> 00:23:51.160] Like so many founders I work with, we've done kind of similar things, and they find, okay, now that I can see it, now that it's not just a thought in my mind of like a what if, now we've painted the picture, we've laid it out, I am certain that I do not want to do that.
[00:23:51.160 --> 00:23:53.640] Like, sometimes you have to do that.
[00:23:53.640 --> 00:24:19.000] And I think with what we're talking about now, with not just the resurgence of like the female founder podcast, but also just forward-facing female founder building and public brands that we'll hopefully continue to see more and more of, is you now have your competition directly in front of your face.
[00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:21.160] And it's like a very difficult thing to do.
[00:24:21.160 --> 00:24:29.720] It's a very difficult thing to manage to either look and keep it moving or not look and like it eats you alive.
[00:24:29.720 --> 00:24:35.320] And I think there's this like assumption of well, everyone's doing well, except for me.
[00:24:35.320 --> 00:24:38.200] Like, that's the thing that keeps us up at night.
[00:24:38.200 --> 00:24:43.240] And working through that, I think, is coming back to exactly what you said.
[00:24:43.240 --> 00:24:55.840] Why you're doing your thing, how you're sharing that message with other people, and ensuring that you're not playing this game of telephone where that message gets lost.
[00:24:55.840 --> 00:24:57.680] I think that's the power of building in public.
[00:24:57.680 --> 00:25:01.440] It is, it's coming directly from me, it's coming directly from the source.
[00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:10.400] I also think, as well, when I see founders like building in public, as well, it can make you question your tone and how you show up and the type of content that you're creating, all of it.
[00:25:10.400 --> 00:25:29.600] And something that you once said to me that I thought was very profound, Barbara, was that what you're, I think it was you, that what you're seeing or what you're like coveting, or what you want that they have, isn't the business that they have, or the life that they have, or the style that they have, or their tone, or whatever.
[00:25:29.600 --> 00:25:41.600] It is the alignment that they have, and the way that they are so able to articulate and embody, and like the way that they're able to do that in this way that is just so authentic to them.
[00:25:41.600 --> 00:25:52.080] And you actually can't get that by copying someone else, you have to do it for yourself because you won't get that feeling if you've got it through emulating someone else.
[00:25:52.080 --> 00:25:53.520] Yeah, 100%.
[00:25:53.840 --> 00:25:54.720] Did that come from you?
[00:25:54.720 --> 00:25:55.680] Am I making this up?
[00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:56.240] I swear.
[00:25:57.520 --> 00:25:58.480] You're not making this up.
[00:25:59.040 --> 00:26:00.080] We've had this conversation.
[00:26:00.080 --> 00:26:08.640] I'm like, I don't know if it was like a voice note conversation or like a live coaching call, but I think we've definitely dug into this in a number of different ways.
[00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:12.320] And I think it's so, so, so true and so important to remember.
[00:26:12.320 --> 00:26:16.880] And it's so hard to see because in the moment, like, you don't realize it.
[00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:24.320] You don't realize that, you know, what's where's the where's the line between inspiration and like now I'm building inauthentically?
[00:26:24.320 --> 00:26:25.040] It's hard.
[00:26:25.040 --> 00:26:27.360] It's like a difficult line.
[00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:33.320] What do we leave people with who are in this kind of this comparison spiral?
[00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:46.040] I would say go back to kind of what we talked about in the first part is laying out your story because I think that parts of that is we're not able to see the magic in ourselves, but we can see it in others, but we want it so bad.
[00:26:46.040 --> 00:26:53.000] So if we can get so clear on what it is that makes us special, we can call it a UVP.
[00:26:53.000 --> 00:27:02.280] We can call it, you know, like what is it that sets you apart from the next person that builds after you and for the people before you that have been building in this space.
[00:27:02.280 --> 00:27:11.560] And you, as the founder, are a part of that piece because nobody can replicate you and nobody can duplicate you and, you know, your life experiences and how you got here.
[00:27:11.560 --> 00:27:13.880] So I would say start there.
[00:27:13.880 --> 00:27:31.880] And in connection to wherever that then takes you to share your story, to continue to build, back to kind of like the first thing that we were talking about, I would always do things that are for the like the betterment and the best possible decision for you and your organization.
[00:27:32.200 --> 00:27:36.680] So I say that to say that don't don't let fear guide you in any way.
[00:27:36.680 --> 00:27:45.240] If you're seeing these, you know, TikTok takedowns and you're like, oh my God, I don't know if I'm going to post this real because then somebody's going to say so-and-so.
[00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:48.840] That's building from a place of fear, no matter what.
[00:27:48.840 --> 00:27:52.680] If it's the right thing for you to share your story on TikTok, do it.
[00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:53.320] I love that.
[00:27:53.320 --> 00:28:00.840] Okay, I'm going to put the link to your Instagram and your website in the show notes as well because I know people are going to want to reach out and chat with you after this conversation.
[00:28:00.840 --> 00:28:01.960] Let's do it.
[00:28:02.280 --> 00:28:03.560] Thank you so much for chatting with me.
[00:28:03.560 --> 00:28:10.040] I feel like this was just like a little mini therapy session about all of the things I'm thinking about, and I hope it's helpful to everyone listening as well.
[00:28:10.040 --> 00:28:22.720] If it was, if you enjoyed the show, make sure you share it on stories, share it in your day-in-the-life post, tell a friendly review, all of those little actions might seem small while you're listening, but that is exactly how the show grows.
[00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:27.200] That's how Spotify or Apple Podcasts know to recommend us to new people.
[00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:30.160] So it does make all the difference.
[00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:37.760] I just wanted to jump in and end the show with a quick thank you and shout out to all of our paid Business Bestie subscribers.
[00:28:37.760 --> 00:28:46.320] Business Besties bypass literally years of networking by getting access to all of the people that you need to build your dream business.
[00:28:46.320 --> 00:28:56.560] You also get invited to exclusive monthly group business coaching call sessions where you can speak to experts and founders and ask them all of those questions that you just can't Google.
[00:28:56.640 --> 00:28:58.080] You can cancel anytime.
[00:28:58.080 --> 00:29:03.680] Head to bestie.femalfounderworld.com or click the link in the show notes for more.

Prompt 2: Key Takeaways

Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.

Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...". 

Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive. 

IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}

Prompt 3: Segments

Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.

For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)  
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion

IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
  "segments": [
    {
      "segment_title": "Topic Discussion", 
      "timestamp": "01:15:30",
      "key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
      "segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
    }
  ]
}

Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.

Prompt 4: Media Mentions

Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:

Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)  
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)

DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names

IMPORTANT: 
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
  "media_mentions": [
    {
      "title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
      "category": "Book",
      "author_artist": "N/A",
      "context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
      "context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
      "timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
    }
  ]
}

If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}

Full Transcript

[00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:01.120] Hey, this is Festies.
[00:00:01.120 --> 00:00:02.720] Welcome back to Female Founder World.
[00:00:02.720 --> 00:00:03.520] I'm Jasmine.
[00:00:03.520 --> 00:00:07.440] I'm the host of the show and the person behind all things Female Founder World.
[00:00:07.440 --> 00:00:08.960] And we're doing things a little bit different today.
[00:00:08.960 --> 00:00:11.120] I've got some newsy stuff I wanted to cover.
[00:00:11.120 --> 00:00:16.560] And so I've brought in Barbara, who is the leadership coach that I've been working with forever now.
[00:00:16.560 --> 00:00:17.920] You've seen her in the group chat.
[00:00:17.920 --> 00:00:20.240] She's hosted calls with us before.
[00:00:20.240 --> 00:00:22.080] Barbara, did I tick off everything?
[00:00:22.240 --> 00:00:24.400] How else would you describe the work that you do?
[00:00:24.400 --> 00:00:26.240] So my background's in education.
[00:00:26.240 --> 00:00:31.760] I have a doctorate in org leadership and now work with startup founders through massive growth and change moments.
[00:00:31.760 --> 00:00:38.640] And essentially what that looks like is ensuring that you as a founder are growing at the same rate that your company is.
[00:00:38.640 --> 00:00:41.680] Otherwise, we become our own growth ceilings.
[00:00:41.680 --> 00:00:47.440] Yeah, so you're on WhatsApp with me all the time, just like ya asking to me complain and solving my problems.
[00:00:47.440 --> 00:00:49.680] And also talking about stuff like this.
[00:00:49.680 --> 00:00:59.120] We love a voice note, but also talking about stories like what we're going to cover today because you and I think are both like very passionate and interested in this space.
[00:00:59.120 --> 00:01:02.640] And so we've got a couple of newsy headlines that we're going to cover and I want to talk about.
[00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:05.680] But first, do you have a resource recommendation for us?
[00:01:05.680 --> 00:01:12.160] I have one that I want to share and I thought I'd kick it off at the top of the show if you've got something interesting you've been using that you think folks should check out.
[00:01:12.800 --> 00:01:15.680] I would definitely recommend Firefly's AI.
[00:01:15.680 --> 00:01:17.360] So I use it as like a note taker.
[00:01:17.360 --> 00:01:18.960] I think a lot of people do now.
[00:01:18.960 --> 00:01:30.480] I've tested so many, but aside from capturing the notes themselves, what I've been doing is also recommending it as a way to give yourself like communication feedback.
[00:01:30.480 --> 00:01:38.960] A lot of people are working on their feedback as founders and just developing that and having some sort of a note capture there that you can also prompt.
[00:01:38.960 --> 00:01:40.400] There's this thing called Fred in there.
[00:01:40.400 --> 00:01:44.960] So you can ask them, here's, you know, should I work on this or this?
[00:01:44.960 --> 00:01:55.920] So I think just having, especially as a solo founder, having another set of either eyes or ears there that can give you feedback on something that is happening real time in the moment.
[00:01:55.920 --> 00:02:03.160] I also have an AI recommendation and it's one of those things I know that when I feel nervous about recommending something because I'm like, oh, it's so good.
[00:02:03.160 --> 00:02:06.520] And I know that our competitors are going to listen to this and all start using it as well.
[00:02:06.520 --> 00:02:08.680] Then I know I have to share it because it is so good.
[00:02:08.680 --> 00:02:12.760] So Natalie on our team, she does a lot of our video content and a bunch of other stuff.
[00:02:12.760 --> 00:02:17.160] And she went to this workshop with YouTube a little while ago.
[00:02:17.160 --> 00:02:24.840] And everyone was telling her that she needed to start using Opus AI for her short form video editing and to create clips.
[00:02:24.840 --> 00:02:27.880] And she started using it like in the last couple of weeks.
[00:02:27.880 --> 00:02:33.240] And we've been able to create so much more content from our kind of like longer form videos.
[00:02:33.240 --> 00:02:42.120] And so if anyone is doing YouTube, vlogging, podcast with video, go and try this tool to get more short form videos because it's really good.
[00:02:42.120 --> 00:02:42.680] Oh, I love it.
[00:02:42.680 --> 00:02:43.240] I need to try it.
[00:02:43.240 --> 00:02:44.280] I just want to mess with it.
[00:02:44.280 --> 00:02:45.160] Yeah, it's 100%.
[00:02:45.160 --> 00:02:46.280] Just like get in there and play with it.
[00:02:46.280 --> 00:02:47.080] It's great.
[00:02:47.080 --> 00:02:52.440] Okay, so the first thing I want to talk to you about today is this story that I think is just dominating on TikTok.
[00:02:52.440 --> 00:02:57.320] And I'm going to give some background for everyone who is just not as chronically online as I am.
[00:02:57.320 --> 00:03:11.480] But it's about Park, Odd Muse, China, and some very noisy TikTok takedowns that have been happening the last few weeks and really been making me think about the costs versus the benefits of trying to build your business in public.
[00:03:11.480 --> 00:03:19.160] So things, just for the backstory, things really started when this TikTok creator, her name, her handle is Sustainable Fashion Friend.
[00:03:19.480 --> 00:03:23.560] She posted this deep dive onto a fashion brand called Park, which I think a lot of you guys know.
[00:03:23.560 --> 00:03:26.360] You should go and listen to my interview with the founder Chelsea.
[00:03:26.360 --> 00:03:29.880] It's from a few episodes ago, so you don't have to scroll far.
[00:03:29.880 --> 00:03:32.040] But that video has had millions and millions of views.
[00:03:32.040 --> 00:03:33.320] It's had heaps of reposts.
[00:03:33.320 --> 00:03:35.240] It's had spin-offs and hot takes.
[00:03:35.240 --> 00:03:48.240] And in the video, the creator basically dives into screenshots from the founder of Park, Chelsea, her videos to pinpoint where Park is sourcing its sweatshirts and its denim and claiming that it's all sourcing from Alibaba.
[00:03:48.560 --> 00:03:57.840] And I think most of our business besties know what Alibaba is, but it is essentially you know, it's a marketplace, it's where brands connect with manufacturers overseas.
[00:03:57.840 --> 00:04:21.120] And she posted this breakdown for Park, she did another one for another fashion brand called Daily Drills, and it's become one of many posts that I think are trying to de-influence women and really question the hype around these really popular TikTok brands like Park, Daily Drills, Dairy Boys, these brands that are known for their logo sweatshirts.
[00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:23.040] And so, this is kind of how it all started.
[00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:32.960] But then, after this drama all kicked off, and I was kind of watching it, and I wasn't, I wasn't going to talk about it on the show because I was like, oh, yeah, like we see, you know, we see this kind of stuff happen all the time, whatever, whatever.
[00:04:33.280 --> 00:04:42.080] But then, a different creator posted, I think, kind of like saw the virality of this post and did a deep dive on a UK fashion brand called Odd Muse.
[00:04:42.080 --> 00:04:49.680] You should go and follow Odd Muse and its founder, Amy, if you're not already, because she is a prolific content creator.
[00:04:49.680 --> 00:04:53.280] And when it comes to building in public, she's just doing it so, so well.
[00:04:53.280 --> 00:04:58.720] But this other creator accused them of greenwashing using unsustainable practices and materials.
[00:04:58.720 --> 00:05:08.480] And the founder, Amy, has been really, she's responded like quite actively, whereas kind of the other brands have been a little bit more quiet, not responding.
[00:05:08.480 --> 00:05:13.920] Amy is someone who has taken us behind the scenes before to visit her manufacturers in China.
[00:05:13.920 --> 00:05:16.080] We've met the partners that she works with.
[00:05:16.080 --> 00:05:17.200] She clearly adores them.
[00:05:17.200 --> 00:05:20.960] She's clearly super affected by these accusations.
[00:05:20.960 --> 00:05:24.560] And it really is going very, very viral at the moment.
[00:05:24.560 --> 00:05:26.480] And that's why I wanted to talk about it.
[00:05:26.480 --> 00:05:29.840] And I'm wondering if you saw this go down in the last week or so, Barbara.
[00:05:29.840 --> 00:05:31.000] Yeah, I've seen it.
[00:05:31.000 --> 00:05:31.480] I've seen it.
[00:05:31.480 --> 00:05:32.840] And it hurts to watch.
[00:05:32.840 --> 00:05:34.280] It absolutely hurts to watch.
[00:05:34.280 --> 00:05:41.480] And just like how much these women pour into their companies and the work that they do, I think is an incredible thing.
[00:05:41.480 --> 00:05:51.800] I also think that before we dive into it, even as you named like who is running this, it's are female founders being more targeted than male founders?
[00:05:51.800 --> 00:05:53.160] Yes, absolutely.
[00:05:53.160 --> 00:05:55.720] Is it also being done by other women?
[00:05:55.720 --> 00:05:56.520] Yes.
[00:05:56.840 --> 00:06:01.080] And like that, I think, is an important thing to name here.
[00:06:01.480 --> 00:06:05.080] But I talk a lot about like this idea of building in public and leading in public.
[00:06:05.080 --> 00:06:09.320] And I think that both Chelsea and Amy are just playing at a very different level.
[00:06:09.320 --> 00:06:12.360] They've grown these massive companies, had incredible traction.
[00:06:12.680 --> 00:06:21.240] And when you're playing at that level, you're really going to receive that level of pushback, what I think is no matter what.
[00:06:21.240 --> 00:06:32.600] Whether it's internally, whether it's from a board, whether it's from your community, from the people you're serving, from people that buy from you, from people that don't, like either one.
[00:06:32.920 --> 00:06:37.080] I think it's something that has always been there when you're at that level.
[00:06:37.080 --> 00:06:48.120] I think it's so in our face right now because there is a TikTok, there is an Instagram where people can voice their opinions and share and other people can see it.
[00:06:48.120 --> 00:06:52.760] And it creates this like massive traction that is so difficult to navigate.
[00:06:52.760 --> 00:06:55.320] And I think it's not just that, is it true?
[00:06:55.320 --> 00:06:56.360] Is it not true?
[00:06:56.360 --> 00:07:12.680] It's actually, I would say, it's arguably harder if it isn't true because then you have everything that you've worked for, you have your core values questioned, you have, you know, put so much time into making this incredible product being questioned.
[00:07:12.680 --> 00:07:18.160] And there's almost like nothing that you can say to make it better other than just letting it happen.
[00:07:14.920 --> 00:07:19.760] I wasn't sure if I wanted to talk about this.
[00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:26.080] Like, I didn't want to add to the noise of this kind of pylon that's going on.
[00:07:26.080 --> 00:07:28.480] And again, like, I'm not, let's just, let's just put this out there.
[00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:31.360] I'm not a sustainable sourcing expert.
[00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:34.400] I'm actually not here to weigh in on that.
[00:07:34.400 --> 00:07:49.680] Although I think it is actually really important to note that The Cut did a story on Park last week, like a few days ago, and they interviewed Chelsea and she said, we don't white label our products, like we go through multiple rounds of design iterations, blah, blah, blah.
[00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:52.720] Like it's not just something that's bought off Alibaba.
[00:07:52.720 --> 00:07:57.920] And it's also important to note that a lot of brands use third-party manufacturers overseas and in Asia.
[00:07:57.920 --> 00:07:59.840] That's actually really common.
[00:07:59.840 --> 00:08:18.640] But I wanted to talk about it because of this, I don't know, as someone who is trying to show up on these platforms and really wants to feel confident about doing it, I keep seeing this stuff happen and it's like, it like triggers something subconsciously in me where it makes me not want to post that draft.
[00:08:19.280 --> 00:08:20.960] And I mean, you're my leadership, Chris.
[00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:23.200] You're the person that I talk to about this.
[00:08:23.200 --> 00:08:25.440] And that's why I went for everyone.
[00:08:25.760 --> 00:08:30.320] And I feel like I'm not the only person who's sitting here watching this and having that response to it.
[00:08:30.320 --> 00:08:37.920] And then, you know, like Chelsea didn't really respond to this aside from that article from the cut, because I think she's been through this so many times before that she doesn't feel like she needs to.
[00:08:37.920 --> 00:08:52.080] And it was also really interesting, you mentioned before, whether it's you're being called out by customers or your board or not your customers, it does seem like customers from Park and Oddmuse are both really coming to their defense in the comments, particularly Oddmoose.
[00:08:52.800 --> 00:08:56.160] They are not having it, which I think is really, really interesting.
[00:08:56.160 --> 00:09:04.280] I mean, I, in a much, on a much smaller scale, I've been dragged on Twitter for like my leadership practices.
[00:09:04.280 --> 00:09:04.520] Yeah.
[00:09:05.240 --> 00:09:05.560] Yeah.
[00:09:05.560 --> 00:09:06.120] Yeah.
[00:09:06.440 --> 00:09:20.840] It was like for hiring practices, for decisions I had made, and people that had worked with me that were employees of mine that were rallying the troops outside and just like it's a horrible feeling.
[00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:33.240] One, it feels like, especially for really high-achieving women, and that like there's this sense of control that we work so hard to, it feels so out of your control and like so outer body.
[00:09:33.240 --> 00:09:42.440] And like, I think we learned so many times that, well, if you just work hard and you're a good person, you'll get far and like people will respect you.
[00:09:42.440 --> 00:09:45.400] And I think 99% of the time that's true.
[00:09:45.400 --> 00:09:55.480] And then like that 1%, and I, and you know, we talk about this a lot, it's just if you let that one or two percent feel like the 98, they absolutely will.
[00:09:55.480 --> 00:10:07.720] So like here in these instances, it's not so much is the creator dragging this person on TikTok, it's how much are we letting that person consume what we do?
[00:10:07.720 --> 00:10:13.880] Is it taking away from like everything that is it taking away from my focus in the morning when I'm preparing for a launch?
[00:10:13.880 --> 00:10:22.120] Is it taking away from like my focus on the 98, 99% of people that do absolutely love and adore these brands?
[00:10:22.120 --> 00:10:23.400] Because it's so distracting.
[00:10:23.400 --> 00:10:27.640] And I had to work with my leadership coach to be like, what the hell?
[00:10:27.640 --> 00:10:28.680] What am I doing here?
[00:10:28.680 --> 00:10:30.760] Like, it's so hard to get out of that space.
[00:10:30.760 --> 00:10:32.520] So I feel for them.
[00:10:32.520 --> 00:10:37.640] And I think in these instances, and for people listening that are also scared, it is a scary thing.
[00:10:37.640 --> 00:10:41.080] Is you just have to do it anyway.
[00:10:41.080 --> 00:10:52.320] Because I think that the story that you put out there and the things that you share and the way that you connect are so much more powerful than what one person can take away from it.
[00:10:52.480 --> 00:10:57.600] I've been in female founder world for quite some time, you know, over a year.
[00:10:57.600 --> 00:11:05.680] And I think it's so incredible to see the connection that these founders have to why they're starting a company.
[00:11:05.680 --> 00:11:10.160] Whether it's, you know, they experienced something themselves, they didn't see something.
[00:11:10.160 --> 00:11:12.720] Like it's, it's so deeply connected.
[00:11:12.720 --> 00:11:16.320] And I think the more that we share that story, it's just so powerful.
[00:11:16.320 --> 00:11:22.720] And it gives you a sense of power as well to share your story and be vulnerable.
[00:11:22.720 --> 00:11:33.360] But I think that I've found the deepest work that I've been able to, like the traction that I've been able to gain with people has to happen with me at the forefront.
[00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:38.560] It doesn't have to mean it's on Instagram or TikTok, but find your way.
[00:11:38.880 --> 00:11:42.320] What do you mean when you say it doesn't have to happen on Instagram or TikTok?
[00:11:42.320 --> 00:11:45.920] Because I've seen you write about this a little bit and it is interesting.
[00:11:45.920 --> 00:11:53.440] This idea of like, yes, you need to be at the forefront of your brand, but that doesn't mean necessarily that you need to be like vlogging.
[00:11:53.440 --> 00:11:58.000] I think that your leadership voice and your founder voice is like an is like an ecosystem.
[00:11:58.000 --> 00:12:21.880] It lives everywhere and anywhere, whether it's you're out to dinner with your girlfriends, whether you are trying to DM somebody to be on your board of advisors and you want them to advise you and then they're going to go be your champion, whether it's walking into like a networking event or an event, and you're like constantly putting your brand at the forefront.
[00:12:21.440 --> 00:12:31.640] Like, like where women are just championing their brand and they have their, they have the tote, they have their like cars, they have samples, and they know like that is your founder voice.
[00:12:31.960 --> 00:12:36.680] What makes me happier than seeing a founder walk into Female Founder World Summit with their branded tote?
[00:12:36.680 --> 00:12:44.360] They've got their samples, they're gonna like go up to the speakers afterwards and they make sure that they tried the sample, introduce themselves, and they're just representing it.
[00:12:44.360 --> 00:12:46.680] I love it, and like not everyone's doing that, right?
[00:12:46.680 --> 00:12:48.120] Like, not everyone is doing that.
[00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:52.760] And I think that is your founder voice, that is putting yourself out there.
[00:12:52.760 --> 00:13:02.120] I am sure that Chelsea and Amy have both been doing that well before putting this on it on TikTok or on the show.
[00:13:02.280 --> 00:13:07.320] I mean, they only wear their brands, yes, yes, and I love that.
[00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:12.600] How does someone find out what that founder voice is and how they show up as that?
[00:13:12.600 --> 00:13:15.240] Like, how would you prompt me to think about that?
[00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:17.400] I can share it, we can share this resource with the community as well.
[00:13:18.040 --> 00:13:23.320] Um, I love to start out with like a spin on a traditional plot diagram.
[00:13:23.320 --> 00:13:30.040] I do this with founders all the time, it's like you know, rising action kind of climax, falling action.
[00:13:30.040 --> 00:13:43.160] I add a few things in there, but whenever I sit down and do that with founders, it's always the smallest, most intricate things that like were actually a really major part of their story that got them here.
[00:13:43.480 --> 00:13:49.560] And knowing, so I would say, first, knowing what those are is definitely number one.
[00:13:49.560 --> 00:14:03.240] Because I think we can tend to say, Oh, like I can do, you know, my pitch or my intro or whatever that may be, but we lose the part of the story that is so deeply connected to the emotional side of why we launched in the first place.
[00:14:03.240 --> 00:14:10.440] Like, we forget that one moment where we were sitting in the room crying and we couldn't figure out how to blink, you know.
[00:14:10.440 --> 00:14:15.200] We don't tell that part, but that part is what hooks people, connects people.
[00:14:15.280 --> 00:14:23.120] And I don't just mean a hook in, like, again, I don't just mean a hook in a TikTok, where you captivate people, even if it's three or four people.
[00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:32.400] Because that three or four person group could also be an editor at Vogue, could also be somebody that knows somebody, that knows somebody.
[00:14:32.400 --> 00:14:41.280] Like, I've met with somebody and then they were talking about my work in rooms, and then I got an email from somebody, and they're like, oh, so-and-so was talking about you.
[00:14:41.280 --> 00:15:01.600] Those are the magical moments that if you have captivated the attention of that person and you've given them enough stuff to then go tell that story again, they then become a champion of your brand in the same way that a repost happens, or somebody tags somebody with the dress on.
[00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:04.560] Like, those things still happen in real life.
[00:15:04.560 --> 00:15:07.200] And I don't think that we, I think that we forget that.
[00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:08.480] And I think we have to hold on to that.
[00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:19.680] So, I definitely storyboard, sit down, look for those small moments, and then think about, okay, which pieces do I share with who?
[00:15:19.680 --> 00:15:22.160] I also recommend start just recording.
[00:15:22.160 --> 00:15:29.200] It doesn't matter if you're going to post it, it doesn't matter where you're just getting those reps in of telling your story out loud.
[00:15:29.200 --> 00:15:32.160] And you said that you have an A or something that people can access.
[00:15:32.160 --> 00:15:34.560] Okay, we'll put that in the show notes so people can go and download that.
[00:15:34.560 --> 00:15:34.880] Amazing.
[00:15:34.880 --> 00:15:37.120] We love a freebie to go with the episode.
[00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:42.960] So, the next thing I want to talk to you about is the rise of the female founder podcast and what this means.
[00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:47.760] We saw Emma Greed, the CEO of the Kardashian Fashion Empire, she launched a podcast.
[00:15:47.760 --> 00:15:53.680] The Unwell Network, which is the podcast network by Alex Cooper, they launched a pod called The Burnouts.
[00:15:53.680 --> 00:15:56.360] Megan Markle, she launched a podcast.
[00:15:56.360 --> 00:16:03.720] It's all about interviews with female founders, and this is all just happened in the last like one, maybe two months.
[00:16:03.720 --> 00:16:04.840] And then Inc.
[00:15:59.760 --> 00:16:06.040] wrote a story about it.
[00:16:06.360 --> 00:16:18.440] And the reason why this is so interesting to me, beyond, I think, the obvious that I also have a show and a media company in this space, is that I do think it indicates a tone shift.
[00:16:18.440 --> 00:16:20.040] And I wanted to talk to you about this.
[00:16:20.040 --> 00:16:27.720] So when I started Female Founder World a few years ago, this was coming off the end of the Girl Boss era.
[00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:38.920] And I mean that literally, a lot of people don't even remember that there was an actual company, media company, or there is a media company called Girl Boss that was run by Sophia Amaruso.
[00:16:38.920 --> 00:16:47.400] And that kind of all became very, felt very like dated and we'd moved away from this hustle girl boss culture.
[00:16:47.400 --> 00:16:49.720] It was when the big pushback was happening at the Wing.
[00:16:49.720 --> 00:16:52.120] Do you remember that co-working space in New York?
[00:16:52.600 --> 00:16:57.400] There was just, it was just like bad vibes around being a female founder.
[00:16:57.400 --> 00:17:01.480] And we started in that wave and around that time.
[00:17:01.480 --> 00:17:10.680] And I was kind of like, well, I actually really need, I really need to learn this business content from somewhere and in a way that isn't just manifestation and vibes.
[00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:14.440] Like I actually need someone to speak this to me in a way that feels really actionable and helpful.
[00:17:14.440 --> 00:17:17.000] And that's how we started.
[00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:25.640] And it's so interesting to me because I feel like everything is cyclical in culture and we're seeing this kind of resurgence.
[00:17:25.640 --> 00:17:37.000] We're coming back now where I think because of what we were just talking about with the rise of this public-facing female founder on TikTok and the fact that everyone needs a side hustle now because things are more expensive.
[00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:43.320] It just seems like this unapologetic ambition is just back in a way that it hasn't been.
[00:17:43.320 --> 00:17:46.320] And I'm curious about whether you've noticed this as well.
[00:17:46.320 --> 00:17:47.840] Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely.
[00:17:47.840 --> 00:17:51.120] And I love, we were just talking about even story and storyboarding.
[00:17:51.120 --> 00:17:55.600] I love even this part of your story and hearing that just like context to it.
[00:17:55.600 --> 00:18:04.640] But how does it feel on your end as somebody who is building a media company and also sees this rise?
[00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:11.360] And also somebody that is like a massive advocate for women in leadership, women as founders.
[00:18:11.360 --> 00:18:13.440] Like, what does it feel like for you?
[00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:18.880] When Megan Markle's podcast dropped, I got so many DMs from people.
[00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:27.760] And I love you for this, but people being like, she's copying you, and that, you know, and no, I do not feel, I do not feel like that.
[00:18:27.760 --> 00:18:31.280] I don't think she knows who, what female founder world is.
[00:18:31.280 --> 00:18:34.160] But I have two responses to it.
[00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:44.560] Like, I feel like my first response is a very human, like, oh, God, can the famous people just stop coaching in and just stick to the famous people stuff?
[00:18:44.560 --> 00:18:51.120] And that's actually the response I often have when celebrities start a tequila brand or start a beauty brand.
[00:18:51.120 --> 00:19:03.120] And I know that there has been some independent female founder who has been hustling in that for years, doing an amazing job, but doesn't get the spotlight or the funding or any of it because she hasn't got the platform.
[00:19:03.120 --> 00:19:06.640] And so there's a little bit of, like, I do feel a little bit of that sometimes.
[00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:12.480] But I was sitting in my car actually the other day thinking about having this conversation with you.
[00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:15.280] And I was like, how do I actually feel about it?
[00:19:15.280 --> 00:19:27.920] And I think the response genuinely now is like, I do think that as a category matures or more people come into your space, it does force you to get better.
[00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:40.440] And if you're doing, if you're in this game and you're doing this because you want to create really, really good work, I think that having more competition only pushes you to be better.
[00:19:40.440 --> 00:19:41.480] It really does.
[00:19:41.800 --> 00:19:46.680] And so that's kind of the way that I'm thinking about it now, where I'm like, okay, we've been at this for a few years now.
[00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:52.440] We need to be able to level up to be able to compete with all of these new voices in the space.
[00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:53.800] And what does that mean?
[00:19:53.800 --> 00:19:59.240] And that's genuinely how I'm choosing to think about it of like, okay, this is actually just going to make me better.
[00:19:59.240 --> 00:20:00.360] And that is my life goal.
[00:20:00.360 --> 00:20:02.840] I want to do this really, really well, whatever I do.
[00:20:02.840 --> 00:20:09.880] I think a lot of people, we're seeing a lot of brands start in all different categories.
[00:20:09.880 --> 00:20:25.400] And I think that it can get really overwhelming to see someone who maybe has a bigger following than you or they're an Efo baby or they have access to all this money or they've got a rich husband or like whatever and they've just got access and privilege that you don't.
[00:20:25.400 --> 00:20:30.200] I think it can feel really, really disheartening and steer you off course.
[00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:36.840] But I do implore people just to let it raise the bar rather than kind of kick you out of the game.
[00:20:36.840 --> 00:20:38.760] That's how I'm choosing to think about it.
[00:20:38.760 --> 00:20:39.640] Are you proud of me for this?
[00:20:39.880 --> 00:20:42.200] And I love the honest reaction to it.
[00:20:42.200 --> 00:20:52.360] Yeah, no, and I love that like human sharing Jasmine at the forefront because I know that everyone listening has had that one experience where they're building something and they see someone else.
[00:20:52.360 --> 00:20:53.480] Just like, really?
[00:20:53.480 --> 00:20:53.880] Yeah.
[00:20:54.200 --> 00:20:55.160] Do you have to?
[00:20:55.800 --> 00:20:57.800] Can you just make another movie?
[00:20:57.800 --> 00:20:58.840] Yep.
[00:21:00.120 --> 00:21:01.240] No, I love that.
[00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:05.560] It also makes you, I think, like really drill down and clarify, like, okay, why do we exist?
[00:21:05.560 --> 00:21:07.480] What is that really clear point of view?
[00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:08.440] Why do we exist?
[00:21:08.440 --> 00:21:10.560] And just really focus in on it.
[00:21:10.560 --> 00:21:16.880] Because that's the thing that kind of your very specific why and who you're serving is, I don't know, the thing no one can take away from you.
[00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:18.640] You just have to stay laser focused on it.
[00:21:18.640 --> 00:21:19.760] And it's so hard.
[00:21:19.760 --> 00:21:21.600] Like it is so hard, I think.
[00:21:14.680 --> 00:21:21.840] Yeah.
[00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:27.120] Do you remember, this was probably, I want to say like eight months ago now.
[00:21:27.120 --> 00:21:36.160] Maybe not that long, but you and I did this exercise and I was saying to you, I'm like, I feel like I'm getting so distracted by competitors and really like disheartened.
[00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:37.680] And we did an exercise together.
[00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:38.480] What did we do?
[00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:42.560] It was like to help me like a circuit break when I'm spiraling.
[00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:51.200] The most immediate thing is, and we got to this point, I think, after what I'll talk about in a second, but there's so much energy that goes into that, right?
[00:21:51.600 --> 00:21:56.320] We could doom scroll for forever and just like search this person and this person, this person.
[00:21:56.320 --> 00:21:58.240] And that requires a level of energy.
[00:21:58.240 --> 00:22:06.320] So we said, okay, let's, everyone has their, you know, their notes app of developing ideas or of things they have to work on.
[00:22:06.320 --> 00:22:10.240] If you're on a walk or one, I think it was like change location.
[00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:18.240] It doesn't have to be go on a walk, but like if you're in the kitchen, move to your bedroom, move to the living room, go to the bathroom, whatever it may be, like change location.
[00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:34.640] And then also open up that note, that notes app or open up wherever it is, because then I think it automatically takes you to your creative space and that creative part of your brain versus the like competition comparison spiral.
[00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:37.200] And it's just like you said, like a circuit break.
[00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:43.120] You're just kind of like switching and it's very cold turkey, just kind of like a small move.
[00:22:43.120 --> 00:22:50.080] But if you're able to, at least open that and spend just a couple minutes, like developing one of the ideas that are underdeveloped.
[00:22:50.080 --> 00:23:05.560] And the other thing that I've done now with a few founders is when the compare, like where this comparison game takes a toll the most, I would say, is when it deters you and it distracts you from what you were originally set out to do in the first place.
[00:23:06.200 --> 00:23:11.240] And sometimes, in a guided way, you just have to go on that journey.
[00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:15.240] Like, okay, what would it be if we did all of these things?
[00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:17.640] We had spent weeks doing that, by the way.
[00:23:17.640 --> 00:23:18.840] Yep, you and I.
[00:23:19.080 --> 00:23:20.840] Like, yeah, we did.
[00:23:20.840 --> 00:23:21.320] We did.
[00:23:21.320 --> 00:23:24.600] We're like, okay, let's do like this whole thing.
[00:23:25.960 --> 00:23:33.320] And then you return back to, okay, no, now I am certain that it is what I said in the first place.
[00:23:33.320 --> 00:23:34.680] And you're not alone in that, Jasmine.
[00:23:34.680 --> 00:23:51.160] Like so many founders I work with, we've done kind of similar things, and they find, okay, now that I can see it, now that it's not just a thought in my mind of like a what if, now we've painted the picture, we've laid it out, I am certain that I do not want to do that.
[00:23:51.160 --> 00:23:53.640] Like, sometimes you have to do that.
[00:23:53.640 --> 00:24:19.000] And I think with what we're talking about now, with not just the resurgence of like the female founder podcast, but also just forward-facing female founder building and public brands that we'll hopefully continue to see more and more of, is you now have your competition directly in front of your face.
[00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:21.160] And it's like a very difficult thing to do.
[00:24:21.160 --> 00:24:29.720] It's a very difficult thing to manage to either look and keep it moving or not look and like it eats you alive.
[00:24:29.720 --> 00:24:35.320] And I think there's this like assumption of well, everyone's doing well, except for me.
[00:24:35.320 --> 00:24:38.200] Like, that's the thing that keeps us up at night.
[00:24:38.200 --> 00:24:43.240] And working through that, I think, is coming back to exactly what you said.
[00:24:43.240 --> 00:24:55.840] Why you're doing your thing, how you're sharing that message with other people, and ensuring that you're not playing this game of telephone where that message gets lost.
[00:24:55.840 --> 00:24:57.680] I think that's the power of building in public.
[00:24:57.680 --> 00:25:01.440] It is, it's coming directly from me, it's coming directly from the source.
[00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:10.400] I also think, as well, when I see founders like building in public, as well, it can make you question your tone and how you show up and the type of content that you're creating, all of it.
[00:25:10.400 --> 00:25:29.600] And something that you once said to me that I thought was very profound, Barbara, was that what you're, I think it was you, that what you're seeing or what you're like coveting, or what you want that they have, isn't the business that they have, or the life that they have, or the style that they have, or their tone, or whatever.
[00:25:29.600 --> 00:25:41.600] It is the alignment that they have, and the way that they are so able to articulate and embody, and like the way that they're able to do that in this way that is just so authentic to them.
[00:25:41.600 --> 00:25:52.080] And you actually can't get that by copying someone else, you have to do it for yourself because you won't get that feeling if you've got it through emulating someone else.
[00:25:52.080 --> 00:25:53.520] Yeah, 100%.
[00:25:53.840 --> 00:25:54.720] Did that come from you?
[00:25:54.720 --> 00:25:55.680] Am I making this up?
[00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:56.240] I swear.
[00:25:57.520 --> 00:25:58.480] You're not making this up.
[00:25:59.040 --> 00:26:00.080] We've had this conversation.
[00:26:00.080 --> 00:26:08.640] I'm like, I don't know if it was like a voice note conversation or like a live coaching call, but I think we've definitely dug into this in a number of different ways.
[00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:12.320] And I think it's so, so, so true and so important to remember.
[00:26:12.320 --> 00:26:16.880] And it's so hard to see because in the moment, like, you don't realize it.
[00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:24.320] You don't realize that, you know, what's where's the where's the line between inspiration and like now I'm building inauthentically?
[00:26:24.320 --> 00:26:25.040] It's hard.
[00:26:25.040 --> 00:26:27.360] It's like a difficult line.
[00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:33.320] What do we leave people with who are in this kind of this comparison spiral?
[00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:46.040] I would say go back to kind of what we talked about in the first part is laying out your story because I think that parts of that is we're not able to see the magic in ourselves, but we can see it in others, but we want it so bad.
[00:26:46.040 --> 00:26:53.000] So if we can get so clear on what it is that makes us special, we can call it a UVP.
[00:26:53.000 --> 00:27:02.280] We can call it, you know, like what is it that sets you apart from the next person that builds after you and for the people before you that have been building in this space.
[00:27:02.280 --> 00:27:11.560] And you, as the founder, are a part of that piece because nobody can replicate you and nobody can duplicate you and, you know, your life experiences and how you got here.
[00:27:11.560 --> 00:27:13.880] So I would say start there.
[00:27:13.880 --> 00:27:31.880] And in connection to wherever that then takes you to share your story, to continue to build, back to kind of like the first thing that we were talking about, I would always do things that are for the like the betterment and the best possible decision for you and your organization.
[00:27:32.200 --> 00:27:36.680] So I say that to say that don't don't let fear guide you in any way.
[00:27:36.680 --> 00:27:45.240] If you're seeing these, you know, TikTok takedowns and you're like, oh my God, I don't know if I'm going to post this real because then somebody's going to say so-and-so.
[00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:48.840] That's building from a place of fear, no matter what.
[00:27:48.840 --> 00:27:52.680] If it's the right thing for you to share your story on TikTok, do it.
[00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:53.320] I love that.
[00:27:53.320 --> 00:28:00.840] Okay, I'm going to put the link to your Instagram and your website in the show notes as well because I know people are going to want to reach out and chat with you after this conversation.
[00:28:00.840 --> 00:28:01.960] Let's do it.
[00:28:02.280 --> 00:28:03.560] Thank you so much for chatting with me.
[00:28:03.560 --> 00:28:10.040] I feel like this was just like a little mini therapy session about all of the things I'm thinking about, and I hope it's helpful to everyone listening as well.
[00:28:10.040 --> 00:28:22.720] If it was, if you enjoyed the show, make sure you share it on stories, share it in your day-in-the-life post, tell a friendly review, all of those little actions might seem small while you're listening, but that is exactly how the show grows.
[00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:27.200] That's how Spotify or Apple Podcasts know to recommend us to new people.
[00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:30.160] So it does make all the difference.
[00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:37.760] I just wanted to jump in and end the show with a quick thank you and shout out to all of our paid Business Bestie subscribers.
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