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[00:00:04.880 --> 00:00:07.600] Hey, Bus Asbesties, welcome back to Female Found World.
[00:00:07.600 --> 00:00:08.400] It's Jasmine.
[00:00:08.400 --> 00:00:12.400] I'm the host of the show and the person behind all things Female Found World.
[00:00:12.400 --> 00:00:14.320] Today I'm chatting with Aileen Drexler.
[00:00:14.320 --> 00:00:16.960] She is the co-founder and CEO of Betches Media.
[00:00:16.960 --> 00:00:17.520] Welcome.
[00:00:17.520 --> 00:00:18.480] Thanks for having me.
[00:00:18.480 --> 00:00:20.960] For people that don't know Beches, what are you doing?
[00:00:20.960 --> 00:00:24.320] Betches is the most powerful and influential media brand for women.
[00:00:24.320 --> 00:00:25.840] We started in 2011.
[00:00:25.840 --> 00:00:40.400] I started it with my two childhood friends in college, never meant to be a business, and grew it, bootstrapped it, and exited in 2023 for seven multi-seven figures.
[00:00:40.400 --> 00:00:40.880] Wow.
[00:00:40.880 --> 00:00:41.280] Yeah.
[00:00:41.280 --> 00:00:45.040] So I'm still the CEO and scaling the business today.
[00:00:45.040 --> 00:00:47.280] Okay, all of these things, like, it's so impressive.
[00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:49.200] And there are so many things I want to cover with you.
[00:00:49.200 --> 00:00:52.880] I want to talk about the early days of building a brand, getting traction.
[00:00:52.880 --> 00:01:00.160] I want to talk about the state of building in the media space right now and your advice for getting attention and creating content online.
[00:01:00.160 --> 00:01:00.560] Let's do it.
[00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:01.840] We're going to talk about hiring.
[00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:04.640] We're going to talk about bootstrapping and what happens after an acquisition.
[00:01:04.640 --> 00:01:06.400] So these are all things we're going to cover.
[00:01:06.400 --> 00:01:08.880] But let's start back in 2011.
[00:01:08.880 --> 00:01:10.400] You started as a website, right?
[00:01:10.400 --> 00:01:11.120] Yeah, a blog.
[00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:11.840] Okay, a blog.
[00:01:11.840 --> 00:01:12.240] Yeah.
[00:01:12.240 --> 00:01:13.040] Back in the day.
[00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:14.400] Yeah, it was a blog.
[00:01:15.600 --> 00:01:18.480] After post, after post, just one a day.
[00:01:18.480 --> 00:01:20.000] How did you get started?
[00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:20.720] Boy.
[00:01:20.720 --> 00:01:22.320] It was 2011.
[00:01:22.320 --> 00:01:23.280] So we were in college.
[00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:24.320] We were seniors in college.
[00:01:24.320 --> 00:01:26.400] Me and my two co-founders, Dran and Sammy.
[00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:28.960] At the time, they were just my friends.
[00:01:28.960 --> 00:01:31.840] And we were actually friends since we were 10 years old.
[00:01:31.840 --> 00:01:34.000] We went to elementary school together.
[00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:35.920] Like Sammy and I were on the bus together.
[00:01:35.920 --> 00:01:42.320] Dragana and I are both our moms, our OBGYNs, and they introduced us at our fifth grade graduation.
[00:01:42.320 --> 00:01:50.720] And we, at the time, there was like a really strong bro culture that existed for men, especially in college.
[00:01:50.720 --> 00:01:58.800] And for women at the time, the internet culture was really all about how can you be perfect for your man?
[00:01:58.800 --> 00:02:12.120] And it was all about being perfect paired with the three of us were in a sorority and everything we were hearing was also like look cute for these fret party and the three of us were like no like absolutely not.
[00:02:12.120 --> 00:02:14.920] It was like the antithesis of everything we believed in.
[00:02:14.920 --> 00:02:19.880] And but at the same time on TV we saw Chelsea Handler.
[00:02:19.880 --> 00:02:21.160] She was just so unapologetic.
[00:02:21.160 --> 00:02:21.960] She was so funny.
[00:02:21.960 --> 00:02:23.720] She was just speaking her mind.
[00:02:23.720 --> 00:02:26.440] Amy Pohler and Tina Faye writing Mean Girls.
[00:02:26.440 --> 00:02:28.360] That was like our Bible.
[00:02:28.360 --> 00:02:29.400] We loved it.
[00:02:29.400 --> 00:02:39.160] And then we just, there's many Kalings and there were just so many women who were comedians or who were almost speaking their truth via humor.
[00:02:39.160 --> 00:02:40.680] And that's what we related to.
[00:02:40.680 --> 00:02:42.440] And we were like, that doesn't exist online.
[00:02:42.440 --> 00:02:45.880] Let's start a blog, make fun of ourselves and our friends.
[00:02:45.880 --> 00:02:47.880] Let's talk about how flawed we are.
[00:02:47.880 --> 00:02:49.480] Almost kind of like bros do.
[00:02:49.480 --> 00:02:51.240] It's like a glorified culture.
[00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:52.280] Let's do that for women.
[00:02:52.280 --> 00:02:53.400] Let's call it betches.
[00:02:53.560 --> 00:02:56.040] Let's not tell anybody that it's us.
[00:02:56.360 --> 00:03:01.000] And so we launched this blog totally as like a like a hobby.
[00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:01.960] We were all creative.
[00:03:01.960 --> 00:03:05.240] We were writing like a TV show also at the same time for just fun.
[00:03:05.240 --> 00:03:06.280] I wanted to be a doctor at the time.
[00:03:06.280 --> 00:03:07.000] I was pre-med.
[00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:07.800] I studied pre-med.
[00:03:07.800 --> 00:03:09.000] I graduated pre-med.
[00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:10.280] Did not become a doctor.
[00:03:10.280 --> 00:03:12.200] But it just went viral.
[00:03:12.200 --> 00:03:14.600] Like it went viral on Facebook.
[00:03:14.600 --> 00:03:16.920] People sharing it wall to wall.
[00:03:16.920 --> 00:03:18.920] Like really because, like I said, it was anonymous.
[00:03:18.920 --> 00:03:23.400] So I saw like one girl tagging her friend being like, is this you?
[00:03:23.400 --> 00:03:25.240] How do you know me so well?
[00:03:25.640 --> 00:03:28.120] This is the funniest thing I've ever read.
[00:03:28.120 --> 00:03:30.280] And at that time, I was like, what?
[00:03:30.600 --> 00:03:32.360] Like, I've never been to North Carolina.
[00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:35.880] Why does this person think that I know them so well?
[00:03:35.880 --> 00:03:39.880] And it just kind of became this phenomenon at that time.
[00:03:39.880 --> 00:03:44.680] And it was funny because we were like, I'm not going to tell anybody that it's us because we want jobs.
[00:03:44.880 --> 00:03:49.040] And we try to understand like really why was it so popular?
[00:03:49.040 --> 00:03:59.840] And what I now understand is that we were really describing what it was to be a woman at that time, a young girl, and not in a way that was condescending.
[00:03:59.840 --> 00:04:02.080] Like we weren't telling anybody how to be.
[00:04:02.080 --> 00:04:03.520] It was like, this is how we are.
[00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:05.360] And let's make fun of ourselves.
[00:04:05.360 --> 00:04:11.920] You 100% are just so clever at making women feel seen for how they are.
[00:04:11.920 --> 00:04:12.960] Exactly what you just said.
[00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:14.720] You know, thank you.
[00:04:14.720 --> 00:04:18.000] It's so amazing to see the through line of where you started and where you are today.
[00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:22.640] And even though the business is so much bigger, you have 100 employees, you've exited all of these things.
[00:04:22.640 --> 00:04:29.120] It's like that kernel, that essence is still exactly what the brand does now, but just amplified.
[00:04:29.120 --> 00:04:29.920] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:04:29.920 --> 00:04:30.800] That is my why.
[00:04:30.800 --> 00:04:32.480] That's why I get up every day.
[00:04:32.640 --> 00:04:37.680] It's to make women laugh and to feel a little less alone.
[00:04:37.680 --> 00:04:40.160] And that's what we're all trying to do, right?
[00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:44.400] Like we're always, everybody's in this pursuit of happiness, pursuit of joy.
[00:04:44.400 --> 00:04:46.880] Like what brings more joy than laughter?
[00:04:46.880 --> 00:04:51.040] Even in the darkest of times, humor is the medicine for that.
[00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:53.680] And then also, aren't we all trying to be a little bit less lonely?
[00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:57.840] So like, isn't it nice to feel seen online when somebody just kind of gets you?
[00:04:57.840 --> 00:04:59.680] And then you can then share it with a friend.
[00:04:59.680 --> 00:05:00.960] So that's, that's my why.
[00:05:00.960 --> 00:05:02.080] That's why I get up.
[00:05:02.080 --> 00:05:07.840] And some of the other milestones that you didn't mention, Betches reaches 250 million plus people, which is incredible.
[00:05:07.840 --> 00:05:10.720] And your engagement is 15 times higher than your competitors.
[00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:11.680] Yeah, that's pretty fun.
[00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:12.960] That's pretty amazing.
[00:05:12.960 --> 00:05:13.520] Yeah.
[00:05:13.520 --> 00:05:15.280] So you were anonymous in 2011.
[00:05:15.280 --> 00:05:19.920] It wasn't until 2013 when you released a book that people found out who you were.
[00:05:19.920 --> 00:05:30.360] The thought now of building a media brand and being anonymous, just with all of these like founder cancellations and like everyone's on TikTok and you have to build in public and it just would be so nice.
[00:05:30.600 --> 00:05:34.680] I would love to be invisible behind this brand, but it's impossible now.
[00:05:29.920 --> 00:05:35.480] Yeah, it's impossible.
[00:05:35.640 --> 00:05:38.120] Even I, like, I am a private person.
[00:05:38.120 --> 00:05:47.000] I like to kind of just, I'd rather build privately, but I also see the benefits of, you know, founder marketing, founder-led marketing, and all of that.
[00:05:47.000 --> 00:05:47.400] So.
[00:05:47.720 --> 00:05:48.440] And here you are.
[00:05:48.440 --> 00:05:49.880] And here I am, you know?
[00:05:49.880 --> 00:05:52.360] It's also like it is uncomfortable for me personally.
[00:05:52.360 --> 00:05:58.200] Like, I'm not a public speaker, but I've learned that and I like learned to flex that muscle over time.
[00:05:58.200 --> 00:05:59.240] And it's tough.
[00:05:59.240 --> 00:06:00.200] I agree with you.
[00:06:00.200 --> 00:06:07.000] And you, as well as being the co-founder and the CEO and leading this business and this team, you also are on a podcast as well.
[00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:08.600] You're also like creating media products.
[00:06:08.600 --> 00:06:10.520] How do you switch that hat?
[00:06:11.400 --> 00:06:12.520] I've been doing it for a long time.
[00:06:14.200 --> 00:06:16.600] I've been doing it a long time, to be honest.
[00:06:16.600 --> 00:06:22.520] So like the trajectory of the business was, okay, so we launched this book, New York Times bestseller.
[00:06:22.520 --> 00:06:26.440] We've written two books since then, also, bestsellers.
[00:06:26.440 --> 00:06:31.320] In the meantime, we launched an e-comm business to diversify our revenue from advertising.
[00:06:31.320 --> 00:06:33.640] And we launched our first podcast.
[00:06:33.640 --> 00:06:38.840] And that was really early on in 2015, maybe the end of 2015.
[00:06:38.840 --> 00:06:43.320] And so I've been learning how to podcast since then.
[00:06:43.320 --> 00:06:45.240] And that's 10 years.
[00:06:45.240 --> 00:06:45.800] Oh, my God.
[00:06:45.800 --> 00:06:47.320] That's 10 years.
[00:06:47.320 --> 00:06:51.400] And so I've learned how to switch for that long.
[00:06:51.400 --> 00:06:53.400] It just takes practice.
[00:06:53.400 --> 00:07:01.720] And now I'll go from like a finance meeting directly into a podcast recording where I'm talking about like Hailey Bieber.
[00:07:02.360 --> 00:07:03.960] And then I'll just switch it back.
[00:07:03.960 --> 00:07:04.920] It's tough.
[00:07:04.920 --> 00:07:10.280] I think earlier on, I was doing podcasts that were a lot more personal about my life.
[00:07:10.600 --> 00:07:11.800] One was called Diet Starts Tomorrow.
[00:07:11.800 --> 00:07:12.920] I did that for four years.
[00:07:13.080 --> 00:07:14.360] That was insanely popular.
[00:07:14.440 --> 00:07:16.080] Talk about building a community.
[00:07:16.080 --> 00:07:19.280] There were people, our fans, Go DS tiers.
[00:07:19.280 --> 00:07:23.360] They would go on vacation together because they found each other through the show.
[00:07:23.360 --> 00:07:27.600] Because I was just sharing really vulnerably and very openly.
[00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:40.080] And I would say switching from that was way harder because you would call it like a vulnerability hangover where you just feel like, oh my God, what did I just say?
[00:07:40.080 --> 00:07:41.600] Who did I just let in?
[00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:43.680] And as a private person, that's hard.
[00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:44.880] I'm shy.
[00:07:45.200 --> 00:07:46.560] And it was tough.
[00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:54.720] But now I've kind of pivoted away from that because I found that I couldn't show up to be the CEO that I needed to be while also feeling that way.
[00:07:54.720 --> 00:08:01.520] So I've pivoted to being a little bit more, doing a little bit more surface-level content, like pop culture and friendships with my two co-founders.
[00:08:01.520 --> 00:08:03.280] So that's our At Betches podcast.
[00:08:03.280 --> 00:08:11.120] So that I can go from like finance to podcast, Taylor Bieber, to ops or growth.
[00:08:11.120 --> 00:08:13.680] And so that's been a really intentional switch for you.
[00:08:13.680 --> 00:08:14.160] Definitely.
[00:08:14.160 --> 00:08:15.520] Yeah, definitely.
[00:08:15.520 --> 00:08:18.400] I think about this a lot about exactly what you said.
[00:08:18.400 --> 00:08:21.760] Like, who are you going to let into this really personal stuff in your life?
[00:08:21.760 --> 00:08:31.600] And what is the trade-off for being like participating in the Vulnerability Olympics that is the internet in order to grow your company?
[00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:32.320] And it is.
[00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:33.600] It's a vulnerability Olympics.
[00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:38.720] It's like who can be the rawest and share the most on the internet and have the most, like, the biggest reaction.
[00:08:38.720 --> 00:08:53.360] And the trade-off for doing that, about like how that feels, even if the response is positive, like the vulnerable, like the the rawness that that takes and sharing from this point of, and this is like an old boss of mine used to say this.
[00:08:53.360 --> 00:08:54.720] I've worked in media for a long time.
[00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:58.160] And she used to say, like you should you should share from a scar, not a wound.
[00:08:58.160 --> 00:09:13.960] And this idea of like sharing in the moment of when you're going through something is really like quite dangerous and actually once you have a bit more like perspective to be able to share about something and offer some more insights like that's when you should share but no one does that No, no one does that.
[00:09:13.960 --> 00:09:17.560] And I definitely didn't do that when I was doing that DST podcast.
[00:09:17.560 --> 00:09:19.560] But I did grow from it personally.
[00:09:19.560 --> 00:09:24.120] Like I really learned from it so much so that I felt the confidence to step away from it.
[00:09:24.120 --> 00:09:26.600] And that was a really nice growing opportunity.
[00:09:26.600 --> 00:09:28.360] But no, I 100% agree with you.
[00:09:28.360 --> 00:09:31.560] And I love that phrase, sharing from a scar.
[00:09:31.560 --> 00:09:39.720] The thing also that I would say is when you're sharing and being vulnerable online is that once you go there, your audience expects it of you.
[00:09:39.720 --> 00:09:40.440] Yes.
[00:09:40.440 --> 00:09:45.080] So you have to be willing to then show up consistently like that.
[00:09:45.080 --> 00:09:46.920] And that's a commitment.
[00:09:46.920 --> 00:09:49.240] Sure, you can pivot, but then you might lose that audience.
[00:09:49.240 --> 00:09:51.160] You have to be willing to do that.
[00:09:51.160 --> 00:09:59.640] I would say, I don't think you need to be like so raw to grow a community.
[00:09:59.640 --> 00:10:01.000] And to connect with people.
[00:10:01.000 --> 00:10:01.400] Exactly.
[00:10:01.400 --> 00:10:04.280] I think you have so much to offer.
[00:10:04.280 --> 00:10:13.720] And it's really finding what do you feel like is sustainable for you to talk about for call it five years.
[00:10:13.880 --> 00:10:17.080] I may not be able to talk about this forever, but I can talk about this for five years.
[00:10:17.080 --> 00:10:22.040] And also, I don't see many male CEOs talking about infertility on the internet, you know?
[00:10:23.000 --> 00:10:27.560] And a lot of infertility is because of, you know, is because of men, but they're not talking about it on the internet.
[00:10:27.560 --> 00:10:29.080] Good thing, whether that's good or bad.
[00:10:29.480 --> 00:10:30.760] No, you're right.
[00:10:30.760 --> 00:10:31.320] You're right.
[00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:32.440] But women are expected to.
[00:10:32.440 --> 00:10:33.240] It's an interesting one.
[00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:35.080] Okay, so 2013, you launched the book.
[00:10:35.080 --> 00:10:38.120] That's really the first time you made money from the business, right?
[00:10:38.120 --> 00:10:39.480] Yeah, yes.
[00:10:39.480 --> 00:10:41.640] I wouldn't say, yeah, we got an advance.
[00:10:41.640 --> 00:10:41.880] Yeah.
[00:10:41.960 --> 00:10:44.320] Small advance shared between the three of us.
[00:10:43.880 --> 00:10:45.840] And that was the first time we made any money.
[00:10:44.200 --> 00:10:50.080] And that was the first time my parents were like, okay, you can...
[00:10:44.920 --> 00:10:51.600] I was living at home for two years.
[00:10:51.920 --> 00:10:54.320] Again, like, I was planning to go to medical school.
[00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:56.560] So I didn't have any money.
[00:10:56.560 --> 00:11:02.000] And I was planning to spend, like, go into debt after that to go to medical school.
[00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:02.880] So I didn't have any money.
[00:11:02.880 --> 00:11:05.680] So I asked my parents if I could just like live at home while I build this business.
[00:11:05.680 --> 00:11:10.960] They were like, okay, but if you're going to live in the city, you have to make your own money and then pay for that apartment.
[00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:13.040] So of course, I listened.
[00:11:13.040 --> 00:11:15.440] I don't, you know, my parents are smart.
[00:11:15.440 --> 00:11:17.120] Thankfully, I listened.
[00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:21.040] And yeah, that was kind of the first time I was able to afford this apartment.
[00:11:21.040 --> 00:11:28.080] It was like one of those fridges that were under the counter and many, many floors of walks downstairs.
[00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:29.040] I've had one of those.
[00:11:29.040 --> 00:11:30.320] Yeah, we all do.
[00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:37.680] We've got a pretty big gap to bridge now between getting acquired in 2023 and where you started the business.
[00:11:37.680 --> 00:11:42.480] And there's all of this growth, hiring, scaling that needs to happen in that stage.
[00:11:42.480 --> 00:11:49.120] And I think a lot of the business bestie community who are listening to the show are in that stage now and they're trying to figure that out.
[00:11:49.120 --> 00:11:57.680] And I want to learn a little bit more about what you did, like what some of those steps were that you took to help get to the point where this business could be acquired.
[00:11:58.320 --> 00:11:59.360] Okay, great question.
[00:11:59.360 --> 00:12:03.200] I do want to say that I wasn't looking to scale at that time.
[00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:04.800] That's what I'm kind of trying to do now.
[00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:13.040] I was really just trying to grow a sustainable business that made profit and a brand that could create legacy.
[00:12:13.040 --> 00:12:20.960] That was what I was focused on because again, it took me like, it's now 14 years, and I was acquired a year and a half ago.
[00:12:20.960 --> 00:12:21.600] Yeah.
[00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:26.800] So I, and I wasn't making like crazy amounts of revenue those few years.
[00:12:26.800 --> 00:12:35.800] There was considerable growth towards like the back half of that, but I would not call it scaling because I still only have about 100 employees.
[00:12:35.960 --> 00:12:39.720] Like, so I was really focused on that growth.
[00:12:39.720 --> 00:12:50.040] What I was also really conscious of growing is that I didn't want to create a brand that was centered around myself and my co-founders.
[00:12:50.040 --> 00:12:57.240] Like that was a very conscious decision because we wanted it to live on its own.
[00:12:57.240 --> 00:13:06.280] And we knew that, or at least I knew that for it to sell at some point, for it to be valuable, it needs to live without us.
[00:13:06.280 --> 00:13:08.200] Otherwise, it's a talent-based business.
[00:13:08.200 --> 00:13:13.720] And even when we were acquired, we were considered a talent-based business because we were kind of the heart of the brand.
[00:13:13.720 --> 00:13:27.480] But I've done considerable amount of work to extend and expand the IP beyond just the Betch's IP through our shows and the various temples that we have so that it can live outside of just us as founders.
[00:13:27.480 --> 00:13:32.520] And I think that I've done a pretty decent job of that since, but I'm still trying to grow that.
[00:13:32.520 --> 00:13:36.440] And I think a lot has to do with defining what the company is.
[00:13:36.440 --> 00:13:39.800] So for me, the company was an entertainment brand.
[00:13:39.800 --> 00:13:41.000] I wasn't trying to be a publisher.
[00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:43.720] I wasn't trying to compete with a Cosmo or do anything like that.
[00:13:43.720 --> 00:13:52.360] I just wanted to create an entertainment brand that's rooted in how can I make, like I said, how can I make people laugh and feel seen or less alone?
[00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:56.360] And that's what I was growing from.
[00:13:56.360 --> 00:14:04.840] What can I build that can A, sustain without me, and B, live beyond me, right?
[00:14:04.840 --> 00:14:12.520] So, for example, I always thought, if Instagram disappeared, would people go stand in line for Betches on Broadway?
[00:14:12.520 --> 00:14:17.440] And that was like the test that I always asked myself as we were building Betches.
[00:14:17.440 --> 00:14:19.760] And I still believe the answer is yes.
[00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:21.680] We have that really engaged community.
[00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:37.120] So, I was building for people to come back on their own, creating content that was just so good that made people feel so good that they would just kind of want to come back on their own or come in line for Batches on Broadway.
[00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:38.560] How does Betches make money?
[00:14:38.560 --> 00:14:42.560] Like, what is the revenue streams that you unlocked as you're building the business?
[00:14:42.560 --> 00:14:50.880] As we unlock, so when we first started, we were, I didn't know what an RFP was, which is a request for proposal for those starting out.
[00:14:51.200 --> 00:14:55.360] And we were kind of just monetizing on like Google Ads, on our blog.
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[00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:44.160] And then we launched our Instagram account, and accidentally we started monetizing our Instagram.
[00:15:44.160 --> 00:15:51.920] It was really a happen, like when a brand came to us and was like, Hey, like, your web is great, but what about your Instagram?
[00:15:51.920 --> 00:15:53.760] And we were like, Our Instagram?
[00:15:53.760 --> 00:15:55.680] I thought that was just for fun.
[00:15:55.680 --> 00:16:00.520] And because we were really just doing it to grow our audience and engage our audience, we just thought this was a great outlet.
[00:15:59.680 --> 00:16:04.680] Like, it's a great way to translate our blog into short form.
[00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:07.480] And, but we saw a brand that was interested.
[00:16:07.480 --> 00:16:08.680] And we're like, okay, great.
[00:16:08.680 --> 00:16:09.880] Let's try it.
[00:16:09.880 --> 00:16:14.040] And in the beginning, it was like, I'll throw up an ad that they sent me and like, I made some money.
[00:16:14.040 --> 00:16:17.160] I was like, this is more money than I made on my blog.
[00:16:17.160 --> 00:16:23.320] And in order to scale a website at that time, I knew I was not going to be able to afford that.
[00:16:23.320 --> 00:16:27.160] I would have had to have raised money to scale that website.
[00:16:27.160 --> 00:16:40.440] And I didn't want to let anybody else in the business in terms of like investors who can change the trajectory or the course of the future of the company and edit our creativity, our creative voice.
[00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:45.960] So I was like, how can I sustain what we have without having to raise money or let anybody in?
[00:16:45.960 --> 00:16:52.520] So I was like, okay, I'm not going to like build out this website that's going to compete again with the likes of the Cosmos.
[00:16:52.520 --> 00:17:03.800] And I was also seeing what it meant to drive that kind of scale for an audience is that you had to spend a lot of money on paid media for you then that whole arbitrage game.
[00:17:03.800 --> 00:17:04.680] So it wasn't for me.
[00:17:04.680 --> 00:17:05.480] I couldn't do it.
[00:17:05.480 --> 00:17:07.960] And I also didn't want to pay for clicks.
[00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:09.800] I wanted people to come back on their own.
[00:17:09.800 --> 00:17:14.680] So that's when I decided this is where we're going to make our money is social.
[00:17:14.680 --> 00:17:16.280] Let's figure that out and see how it goes.
[00:17:16.280 --> 00:17:17.560] Low margin business.
[00:17:17.560 --> 00:17:19.240] Let's do that.
[00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:21.800] And that just continued to grow and grow and grow.
[00:17:21.800 --> 00:17:25.800] And then I started, as I said, our e-comm shop, our merch business, and that started to grow.
[00:17:25.800 --> 00:17:27.880] And that's how I started to diversify the business.
[00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:31.160] And that's when me, Jordan, and Sammy started to diversify our roles, too.
[00:17:31.160 --> 00:17:32.200] Because I was like, you know what?
[00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:35.480] I'm going to take, we were all three writing one post together.
[00:17:35.800 --> 00:17:38.440] We were like sharing content.
[00:17:38.440 --> 00:17:42.440] We would all write our notes in for this one post because it was a craft.
[00:17:42.440 --> 00:17:44.280] Like we call it the batches in the detail.
[00:17:44.280 --> 00:17:48.960] Like the craft of creating one voice between three people takes practice.
[00:17:44.840 --> 00:17:49.840] And that's what we were doing.
[00:17:50.080 --> 00:17:54.000] And then we were like, you know what, maybe this is not sustainable.
[00:17:54.320 --> 00:17:58.800] So we started just shop batches on my own.
[00:17:58.800 --> 00:18:00.800] I was like, you know what?
[00:18:00.800 --> 00:18:04.160] I'll just build my own website on Shopify.
[00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:05.920] I did the customer service.
[00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:07.920] I designed the products.
[00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:08.880] I found the models.
[00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:09.920] I found the photographer.
[00:18:09.920 --> 00:18:11.600] I creatively directed the shoot.
[00:18:11.600 --> 00:18:12.880] Like, it was my baby.
[00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:14.160] It was so fun.
[00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:15.840] But, and that grew really well.
[00:18:15.840 --> 00:18:20.560] But then I watched our advertising revenue like really overtake that.
[00:18:20.560 --> 00:18:21.440] That scaled.
[00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:25.280] That grew at an exponential rate to where I could not ignore that.
[00:18:25.280 --> 00:18:27.920] So much of my effort was directed towards that.
[00:18:27.920 --> 00:18:30.720] And I had to find somebody else to run the shop.
[00:18:30.720 --> 00:18:33.440] And that's kind of how we continued to build.
[00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:34.160] We wrote two books.
[00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:37.280] So we, our advance kind of grew from there.
[00:18:37.280 --> 00:18:41.120] And we just kept funding the business through the profits.
[00:18:41.120 --> 00:18:42.400] That was the key.
[00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:47.440] You were one of the early brands on Instagram to do SpawnCon.
[00:18:47.760 --> 00:18:52.000] I would never call it SpawnCon because it was so much more than that.
[00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:52.400] Yeah.
[00:18:52.400 --> 00:18:52.880] I know.
[00:18:53.600 --> 00:18:55.440] But yes, because we weren't influencing.
[00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:56.720] Like, I was in front of camera.
[00:18:56.720 --> 00:18:57.200] Yeah.
[00:18:57.520 --> 00:19:10.800] Like, we were just creating how we can create an asset or a piece of branded content for a brand that doesn't require our faces, but still have that authentic voice that we use for batches.
[00:19:10.800 --> 00:19:11.840] And that was our pitch.
[00:19:11.840 --> 00:19:19.120] It was like, you have the creative minds that are creating all this original content with this insane engagement rate that's growing exponentially against everybody else.
[00:19:19.120 --> 00:19:21.440] We can make that branded asset for you.
[00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:24.880] And that was kind of how we pitched ourselves at that time.
[00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:26.000] And people wanted on board.
[00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:26.880] Brands wanted on board.
[00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:29.440] Bumble was one of our earliest clients.
[00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:33.480] They sponsored our second book party, and it was amazing.
[00:19:29.840 --> 00:19:35.960] It was so cool to be part of that story.
[00:19:36.280 --> 00:19:50.600] The way that a lot of like media brands work that I understand is that they kind of have, yes, you have the like partnerships, advertising part of the business, and they have these like content studios within that that are developing that content and working with brands.
[00:19:50.600 --> 00:19:54.440] How does Vetches work with brands and like what does that setup look like?
[00:19:54.760 --> 00:20:01.000] So over time, I've really changed the model of how we work with brands.
[00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:04.120] So in the past, like I was saying, it's a bit more transactional.
[00:20:04.120 --> 00:20:07.160] Like, you have, like, I can put a one-off on.
[00:20:07.560 --> 00:20:09.800] Over time, I was like, I don't want to do these one-offs.
[00:20:09.800 --> 00:20:12.920] I want to build relationships with my clients.
[00:20:12.920 --> 00:20:20.760] I want to make meaningful impact for their business goals because every business has problems and every business has a challenge to solve.
[00:20:20.760 --> 00:20:22.120] How can we do that?
[00:20:22.120 --> 00:20:39.000] And so we were working with clients and businesses that want to reach our very coveted audience, like female millennials and Gen Z, soon alpha are going to be one of the most sought-after audiences.
[00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:41.080] And we knew we had something there.
[00:20:41.080 --> 00:20:48.440] And so now the way that we work with clients, and we did so many different like iterations of what that is, so much test and learn.
[00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:51.080] I took many a risk.
[00:20:51.080 --> 00:21:01.640] And now the way that we work with our brands is exactly in that way, in that very consultative manner, being like a marketing partner for our brands.
[00:21:01.640 --> 00:21:04.760] And as I said earlier, we weren't the face.
[00:21:04.760 --> 00:21:07.240] Now we have so much talent within our business.
[00:21:07.240 --> 00:21:08.760] We have a creative studio.
[00:21:08.760 --> 00:21:15.920] Again, we have so many of the creatives who create our original content as part of our marketing, branded content.
[00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:17.760] But it's so much more than branded content.
[00:21:17.760 --> 00:21:22.640] Like, we start with strategy, we start with data, insights, then we go into creative.
[00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:27.680] Then we go into like, how is this going to live on batches?
[00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:29.760] How is it going to be distributed beyond vetches?
[00:21:29.760 --> 00:21:33.200] Like, we are real marketing partners for our clients.
[00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:39.680] We work with Pepsi's, Peacock, Duncan is a really big brand partner of ours.
[00:21:39.680 --> 00:21:41.280] And it's only growing.
[00:21:41.280 --> 00:21:44.080] Like, L'Oreal is an amazing client and things like that.
[00:21:44.080 --> 00:21:46.320] So it's only going to keep building.
[00:21:46.320 --> 00:21:51.120] And I'm really interested in how I can continue to innovate in this space.
[00:21:51.120 --> 00:21:57.440] How can you create partnerships with brands in a way that's not just like slapping on a logo or these?
[00:21:57.440 --> 00:22:09.040] You know, you see really cool Super Bowl ads, but like, how can you create like truly meaningful content for an audience that's not just like a one-off piece of content where a brand is integrated in and it's part of the story?
[00:22:09.040 --> 00:22:11.200] And that's what I'm thinking about now.
[00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:15.840] But, you know, it's just keep evolving over time and testing and learning.
[00:22:15.840 --> 00:22:25.840] Your story is not going to be the same as mine, but yours is going to be maybe better and more, you know, you might go somewhere completely different direction, do something crazier.
[00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:26.800] I want to know.
[00:22:26.800 --> 00:22:35.280] So for the people who are listening who want to explore partnerships, maybe not exactly the same format, like maybe their brands, they want to do BDB partnerships with other brands.
[00:22:36.320 --> 00:22:41.040] How do you bring those big companies in to want to work with you?
[00:22:41.840 --> 00:22:42.720] In what way?
[00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:44.320] Well, like, how do you, what's the process?
[00:22:44.320 --> 00:22:49.760] Like, very specifically, how do you, okay, like, what are the, what are the assets that you need when you're pitching?
[00:22:49.760 --> 00:22:52.240] What's the process of like getting in touch with someone?
[00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:55.840] How do you attract a big brand like that to want to work with you?
[00:22:55.840 --> 00:22:56.480] It depends.
[00:22:56.480 --> 00:22:57.360] Like, I have a sales team.
[00:22:57.360 --> 00:22:57.600] Yeah.
[00:22:57.600 --> 00:22:58.400] I didn't always have a sales team.
[00:22:58.480 --> 00:22:59.200] Yeah, you didn't always.
[00:22:59.280 --> 00:23:00.000] I didn't always have a sales team.
[00:23:00.760 --> 00:23:03.960] And in the beginning, we were really lucky that brands were just kind of coming to us.
[00:23:04.760 --> 00:23:11.320] And our challenge over a course of years was pivoting, like from being where we have to be the proactive ones.
[00:23:11.320 --> 00:23:12.920] Otherwise, we're not going to be able to grow.
[00:23:12.920 --> 00:23:15.080] Like, we can't just wait for people to come to us.
[00:23:15.080 --> 00:23:16.040] Like, how lucky is that?
[00:23:16.040 --> 00:23:17.720] That's going to turn off one day.
[00:23:17.720 --> 00:23:20.760] You need to learn the skill to go out and be proactive.
[00:23:20.760 --> 00:23:25.320] So that was a big pivot for my business and like bringing on the people who knew how to do that.
[00:23:25.320 --> 00:23:27.960] In terms of how do you do that?
[00:23:27.960 --> 00:23:30.760] It all starts with knowing what you are good at.
[00:23:30.760 --> 00:23:41.160] If you are not a salesperson, if you don't know how to speak, how to pitch yourself, there is no better salesperson though than a founder, I have to say, though.
[00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:43.960] So, A, I would work on that pitch with somebody.
[00:23:43.960 --> 00:23:49.400] Really figure out what impact can you make for that brand?
[00:23:49.400 --> 00:24:01.080] A lot of people I see like pitching themselves as like, here's all the things that I have, but no, change it to, here's all the things that I can do for you and the challenges that I can solve for you.
[00:24:01.080 --> 00:24:03.080] And let's make something great together.
[00:24:03.080 --> 00:24:06.120] That's the approach, I would say.
[00:24:06.120 --> 00:24:07.480] How to go about that.
[00:24:07.480 --> 00:24:09.640] So, let's say you don't have a salesperson.
[00:24:09.640 --> 00:24:11.000] Look up on LinkedIn.
[00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:12.680] Who's the person who makes decisions?
[00:24:12.680 --> 00:24:15.880] It's usually somebody on marketing, on brand.
[00:24:15.880 --> 00:24:17.160] Make a connection.
[00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:18.520] Be persistent.
[00:24:18.520 --> 00:24:21.080] Have your elevator pitch and always think about that.
[00:24:21.080 --> 00:24:25.560] Like, why does this person gonna care about your message?
[00:24:25.560 --> 00:24:27.560] Make it the size of a tweet.
[00:24:27.560 --> 00:24:31.240] Like, make it cute, small, maybe two tweets, whatever.
[00:24:31.240 --> 00:24:32.840] And don't sound so sales pitchy.
[00:24:32.840 --> 00:24:36.040] I find that when I sound really salesy, it doesn't work.
[00:24:36.040 --> 00:24:37.080] So I go back to my roots.
[00:24:37.080 --> 00:24:38.200] How do I sound authentic?
[00:24:38.200 --> 00:24:41.880] How do I sound like a person, a human being, speaking to another human being?
[00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:45.680] And so I'll say something like, Do you want me to do it?
[00:24:45.680 --> 00:24:46.080] Yeah.
[00:24:46.080 --> 00:24:46.640] Okay.
[00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:47.600] Tell me, let's do it.
[00:24:47.600 --> 00:24:54.080] I'll probably say, like, hi, I'm the CEO and founder of, I'm Eli, I'm the CEO and founder of Vetches Media.
[00:24:54.080 --> 00:24:58.800] If you've never heard of us, just ask any Millennial Gen Z woman, just trust me.
[00:24:58.800 --> 00:25:02.800] And then I'll ask, like, would love to talk about what you have going on.
[00:25:02.800 --> 00:25:03.760] Do research.
[00:25:03.760 --> 00:25:06.080] So look at something that they're doing.
[00:25:06.080 --> 00:25:11.280] Take out, take an insight that you would say, I see that you are X, Y, Z.
[00:25:11.280 --> 00:25:13.920] I'd love to support you in that.
[00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:15.280] Here's what we have going on.
[00:25:15.280 --> 00:25:28.000] Or like really briefly, like we are creating a space for women to whatever, or whatever you're, as an influencer or creator, what are you, what is your message?
[00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:29.520] What are you doing for an audience?
[00:25:29.520 --> 00:25:32.160] Pull out like a really key stat that's huge.
[00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:35.040] Like I would say, I was like, we have the highest engagement rate on social.
[00:25:35.040 --> 00:25:39.120] Like I would only say that one because no one's going to remember anything, right?
[00:25:39.120 --> 00:25:40.560] They're going to see one thing.
[00:25:40.560 --> 00:25:41.520] And then go from there.
[00:25:41.520 --> 00:25:43.680] Just go out and do as many of them.
[00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:45.600] Then you need materials.
[00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:48.960] So they're probably going to ask, like, send me a deck.
[00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:54.080] Your deck should be very short and it should have the most punchy things on there.
[00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:56.400] It should say what your why is.
[00:25:56.400 --> 00:26:00.480] It should show some brands you've worked with that are big.
[00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:02.880] And don't overwhelm with stuff.
[00:26:03.040 --> 00:26:05.520] That's also something that we had to pivot away from.
[00:26:05.520 --> 00:26:15.440] We put all of this, all of these words on a page that I was like, I don't even want to read this about myself, let alone somebody who has to read so many pictures a day.
[00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:16.480] That is such good insight.
[00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:18.160] If you don't want to read it, they don't want to read it.
[00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:19.840] And actually, that goes for everything you do.
[00:26:19.840 --> 00:26:26.720] If you don't like the thing that you've created, even if it's a deck, a piece of content, an email, if you wouldn't read it, don't put it out in the world.
[00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:27.600] Trust your gut on that.
[00:26:27.600 --> 00:26:30.840] Yes, don't do the things you think you should do.
[00:26:30.840 --> 00:26:35.000] It comes off so forced and inauthentic.
[00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:41.080] Do what you would want to do or read or listen to or whatever.
[00:26:41.080 --> 00:26:43.000] Switching gears for a second, who was your first hire?
[00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:44.200] Her name is Chloe.
[00:26:44.520 --> 00:26:46.360] We're still in contact.
[00:26:46.360 --> 00:26:47.160] We follow each other.
[00:26:47.160 --> 00:26:49.000] She's a wonderful little boy.
[00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:52.920] She was, I hired her to help with shop veggies.
[00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:57.480] And then that evolved, as I said, like as a business, she evolved to be more of like a right hand.
[00:26:57.560 --> 00:27:00.680] She did a bit of everything, graduated from college.
[00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:04.680] So she was like just looking for experience and she loved batches.
[00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:10.440] That was a key thing for finding somebody who was a fan, who loved what we did, who just kind of loved the product.
[00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:13.000] And then she moved on.
[00:27:13.000 --> 00:27:14.840] And I was proud of her.
[00:27:14.840 --> 00:27:17.320] It's like, you were so monumental in this.
[00:27:17.320 --> 00:27:18.440] It was our first hire.
[00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:24.680] That was the scariest thing I ever had to do was be responsible for somebody's life.
[00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:27.000] Like, you're leaving college.
[00:27:27.080 --> 00:27:31.720] You're going into the world and you're going to work for me and you're hoping that I could pay you every week.
[00:27:31.720 --> 00:27:33.800] Like, that was terrifying.
[00:27:33.800 --> 00:27:35.000] But we did it.
[00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:36.520] Go, Chloe.
[00:27:36.520 --> 00:27:38.040] And yeah, it was really great.
[00:27:38.040 --> 00:27:39.480] And then we just kind of slowly built.
[00:27:39.480 --> 00:27:41.640] Like, we did not, like I said, we didn't raise any money.
[00:27:41.640 --> 00:27:46.920] So I couldn't afford experts or people who had 15 years of experience.
[00:27:46.920 --> 00:27:52.280] And so I just hired the people that I felt like had potential that were green.
[00:27:52.280 --> 00:27:54.680] I could, you know, teach them.
[00:27:54.680 --> 00:27:56.600] And there were already three co-founders.
[00:27:56.600 --> 00:27:59.160] We could go where the business needed us.
[00:27:59.160 --> 00:28:04.360] And that was the route we took and slowly evolved the business.
[00:28:04.360 --> 00:28:07.400] The more the people we could afford, the more we built.
[00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:09.960] But we did it very methodically.
[00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:18.560] Never hired way too many people at once because, again, I really cared about the profit, like the Ibera, because that's what we were investing back in the business.
[00:28:14.840 --> 00:28:19.200] That's how we grew.
[00:28:19.360 --> 00:28:27.680] And that's essentially what got us to our exit because we were a revenue growth business and we were a profit, profitable business.
[00:28:27.760 --> 00:28:29.040] There are very few of those.
[00:28:29.040 --> 00:28:42.560] I want to talk about the exit now and your advice for people who want to build brands that can be acquired, what that process looked like, and then also afterwards, I want to talk about what changes because we've seen all of these big brands be acquired recently.
[00:28:42.560 --> 00:28:42.880] Sure.
[00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:47.920] Copy, touchland, road, like what happens in a business during that process and afterwards.
[00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:49.600] I mean, it's absolutely different for everyone.
[00:28:49.600 --> 00:28:52.640] But to your first question, what was it?
[00:28:52.640 --> 00:28:53.200] How do I get that?
[00:28:53.440 --> 00:29:01.040] What's the process of building a brand that can be acquired and bringing in someone who wants to buy you?
[00:29:01.360 --> 00:29:07.360] Okay, so over time, we've always had interest in our acquisition.
[00:29:07.360 --> 00:29:18.800] For us, it was about saying no and understanding like what any of that world, any of the words or phrases in that world meant.
[00:29:18.800 --> 00:29:22.320] Like the first time I saw the word, was it run rate?
[00:29:22.320 --> 00:29:23.280] Like, what's your run rate?
[00:29:23.280 --> 00:29:24.800] I'm like, I just graduated college.
[00:29:24.800 --> 00:29:25.280] I don't know.
[00:29:25.280 --> 00:29:26.960] Is it like my treadmill speed?
[00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:28.400] Like, what are you talking about?
[00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:32.160] I learned it really quickly because that's how you learn, right?
[00:29:32.160 --> 00:29:35.680] When somebody asks you a question and you have no clue, you're like, well, I'm going to find out.
[00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:39.280] So I had to learn on the job.
[00:29:39.280 --> 00:29:45.360] So there was learning about what, like, all the very series A, angel, family, friends and family, all of that.
[00:29:45.360 --> 00:29:49.120] For me, it was figuring out why would I would need investment.
[00:29:49.120 --> 00:29:59.360] So that was a key pivot is when I learned that actually I don't think that I'm not at the stage where I should bring on an investor.
[00:29:59.360 --> 00:30:02.760] I think that we just keep growing until we exit.
[00:30:03.080 --> 00:30:17.240] Because when you bring on an investor, you dilute your shares or you give your shares away, a piece of your shares, and then you have somebody in the business who has opinions on how to run that business.
[00:30:17.240 --> 00:30:20.840] So the person you bring on really matters.
[00:30:20.840 --> 00:30:24.520] You are marrying that person or that company.
[00:30:24.520 --> 00:30:31.800] And you have to understand over time, and this is what I learned, is like, what is the difference between PE and VC and all that type of money?
[00:30:31.800 --> 00:30:34.520] And what are the strings that come with that?
[00:30:34.520 --> 00:30:38.680] Because there are strings with like investor money.
[00:30:39.320 --> 00:30:47.080] So the reason why I decided not to bring on investors or bring on capital is because I didn't really feel like I needed to.
[00:30:47.080 --> 00:30:49.560] I liked the strategy that we were going with.
[00:30:49.560 --> 00:30:58.440] As I said, I was just kind of growing the business slowly and figuring out ways to grow the business with decent margins.
[00:30:58.440 --> 00:31:05.560] Say, though, I had a product that needed to be made and I yet didn't have the money to make it.
[00:31:05.560 --> 00:31:08.200] That's a completely different story.
[00:31:08.200 --> 00:31:15.720] So that's when it would make sense to raise money and bring on investors and help grow the business.
[00:31:16.040 --> 00:31:25.640] Carefully choose your investors, people who can give you actual strategy and support in building it, who can show you the ropes.
[00:31:25.640 --> 00:31:29.400] But because content was my product, that is marketing.
[00:31:29.400 --> 00:31:31.720] So it was free.
[00:31:31.720 --> 00:31:33.320] Thank you, Instagram, right?
[00:31:33.320 --> 00:31:35.320] Like, so it was easier.
[00:31:35.320 --> 00:31:40.120] But how you build a business, if we're talking about a media business, do you want me to talk about that?
[00:31:40.200 --> 00:31:41.560] Yeah, let's talk about media businesses.
[00:31:41.640 --> 00:31:43.640] Media business that grows to scale.
[00:31:43.640 --> 00:31:48.480] Again, I believe there is nothing better than a profitable company.
[00:31:49.120 --> 00:31:55.120] And so how do you scale or grow a business that makes profit?
[00:31:55.120 --> 00:32:10.880] And that's really understanding your finances or having somebody who can share with you what are your margins, what business within your business will bring you the most profit, what types of products, what, and then think about how do I make more of that?
[00:32:10.880 --> 00:32:17.920] What's the most efficient way to make that product in a way that's great for your audience?
[00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:21.760] Because the quality of your product is one of the most important things.
[00:32:21.760 --> 00:32:24.480] You don't want to be selling shit out there.
[00:32:24.800 --> 00:32:47.360] But I would say that growing a profitable business for me was what got the most interest all of those years and gave me the most leverage to sell my business and have a great exit and have incredible partners who are strategic and help me now scale the company.
[00:32:47.360 --> 00:32:48.480] Because I'm still on.
[00:32:48.480 --> 00:32:56.400] I'm the CEO of the business and I am taking the business into what I've always seen the vision for it.
[00:32:56.400 --> 00:32:58.960] And I'm doing it with a partner that can help me.
[00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:05.200] And a lot has been like really just strategic support, not even just like cat, like capital.
[00:33:05.200 --> 00:33:12.880] It's been strategic support because I was so focused on spending the money on the product and like the sales of it.
[00:33:12.880 --> 00:33:13.120] Yeah.
[00:33:13.280 --> 00:33:19.440] My ops, my like the back end part of the of it was super scrappy.
[00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:20.400] Still scrappy, yeah.
[00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:22.080] The whole thing was scrappy.
[00:33:22.080 --> 00:33:22.960] I'm not lying.
[00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:24.320] The thing was scrappy.
[00:33:24.320 --> 00:33:27.520] And in reality, all things are scrappy.
[00:33:27.520 --> 00:33:34.920] Like, if you're not scrappy, very it's hard to be profitable if you're not going to be scrappy in the beginning.
[00:33:35.080 --> 00:33:39.800] It's hard to be, but also most businesses that are successful are scrappy.
[00:33:39.800 --> 00:33:49.320] You have to learn how to spend money in a way that gives you the biggest return while not affecting your product or affecting the people that work for you.
[00:33:49.320 --> 00:33:52.680] Of course, that's your number one audience is your employees.
[00:33:52.680 --> 00:33:56.120] Then it's your audience, audience, your customers.
[00:33:56.120 --> 00:34:00.120] But that's that's the, I would say that's the toughest part.
[00:34:00.120 --> 00:34:11.000] But now they're offering a lot of operational rigor on that back end and setting that foundation even stronger to allow us to scale.
[00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:15.400] Like for you to scale, you need like an operating model that lends itself to scale.
[00:34:15.400 --> 00:34:30.920] And what that means is systems and technology and processes, which is the most unsexy part of creating a business, but extremely vital to build something that can keep making more money.
[00:34:30.920 --> 00:34:33.240] And you need insights, so that's part of it.
[00:34:33.240 --> 00:34:40.840] Like the data to know why something made more money than the next thing, why something did better.
[00:34:40.840 --> 00:34:44.840] If we're talking about media and content, why did one piece of content do better than the other?
[00:34:44.840 --> 00:34:49.080] Did this, yeah, it went viral, but it convert any users?
[00:34:49.080 --> 00:34:50.440] Did it convert customers?
[00:34:50.920 --> 00:34:53.480] Did you have any clients that came back?
[00:34:53.480 --> 00:34:55.720] What kind of marketing does well, B2B, B2C?
[00:34:55.720 --> 00:34:57.800] Like there's a lot that goes into it.
[00:34:57.800 --> 00:35:07.560] And that foundational support is what I'm finding so beneficial working with my parent company, Lab Bible Group.
[00:35:07.560 --> 00:35:11.320] The day that you signed that deal, what was that like?
[00:35:11.320 --> 00:35:16.880] Well, considering I just had a baby like three weeks before, it was crazy.
[00:35:17.120 --> 00:35:22.960] I mean, it was the most mixed bag of emotions because I sold my business 100%.
[00:35:22.960 --> 00:35:24.400] So it wasn't mine anymore.
[00:35:24.400 --> 00:35:25.040] Wow.
[00:35:25.040 --> 00:35:28.560] But I also just had a baby three weeks ago.
[00:35:28.560 --> 00:35:31.600] My second child, Lucas, I just had him.
[00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:34.560] So I was like, so postpartum.
[00:35:34.560 --> 00:35:38.160] Like, I was barely out of the diaper.
[00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:42.880] So, but thankfully, because my parent company, Lab, they're in the UK.
[00:35:42.880 --> 00:35:45.840] So we did it on Zoom and it was kind of great for me.
[00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:47.120] I like wore my leggings.
[00:35:47.120 --> 00:35:48.720] It was so good.
[00:35:49.040 --> 00:35:51.040] But it was just the greatest feeling.
[00:35:51.040 --> 00:35:53.360] I felt so accomplished in that moment.
[00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:59.520] And I was really so proud of myself because, I mean, I did all of the pitching and the meetings and all of that.
[00:35:59.520 --> 00:36:01.920] And that was a skill I was terrified.
[00:36:01.920 --> 00:36:04.160] Like, I was terrified to do that coming up.
[00:36:04.160 --> 00:36:05.920] I was scared to make money.
[00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:06.400] Sorry.
[00:36:06.400 --> 00:36:09.440] I was scared to raise money and bring on investors, if I'm being honest.
[00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:11.920] Like, it's not something I ever did before.
[00:36:12.240 --> 00:36:22.240] And figuring that part out was like expanding my capabilities in a way that was just like throwing yourself in complete discomfort.
[00:36:22.240 --> 00:36:25.120] And yeah, I was just so proud of myself.
[00:36:25.120 --> 00:36:27.040] It was, it was an amazing moment.
[00:36:27.040 --> 00:36:31.280] And it was nice to feel, I mean, it was scary also because you don't know who you're really giving it to.
[00:36:31.280 --> 00:36:35.520] I mean, like, I was really getting to know them for like a year and a half, maybe two years.
[00:36:35.520 --> 00:36:37.360] It took that long, the process?
[00:36:37.680 --> 00:36:39.680] The process was shorter.
[00:36:39.680 --> 00:36:44.800] Maybe the process was a year, but we were courting each other for like six months.
[00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:51.680] And there was also, like, I was, there was also other businesses that I have in before that.
[00:36:51.680 --> 00:36:58.240] Like, I went through, um, it wasn't due diligence yet, but I was sharing data with another business before that.
[00:36:58.240 --> 00:37:00.920] And I got an offer and I rejected it.
[00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:02.760] That happened kind of a couple times.
[00:37:03.240 --> 00:37:04.440] What makes you reject an offer?
[00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:05.320] What's wrong?
[00:37:05.320 --> 00:37:11.000] I felt like they didn't value, and not value in terms of the number.
[00:37:11.160 --> 00:37:19.080] Didn't think they saw us beyond beyond the number on that bottom line.
[00:37:19.080 --> 00:37:24.040] I felt like they didn't understand what we brought to the table.
[00:37:24.040 --> 00:37:29.320] I think they were just trying to like get their business like goals by like checking a box.
[00:37:29.800 --> 00:37:31.160] They didn't understand the magic.
[00:37:32.120 --> 00:37:32.840] Thank you.
[00:37:32.840 --> 00:37:34.600] They didn't understand the magic.
[00:37:34.600 --> 00:37:39.320] And I don't believe they saw us as magic.
[00:37:39.320 --> 00:37:43.160] And I found a partner who did.
[00:37:43.160 --> 00:37:51.240] And I think the reason why that matters is because if it's a talent-led business, so like, like I said, you're not leaving.
[00:37:51.240 --> 00:38:06.600] If it's like a product or a technology that you're selling and they don't need you, by all means, I mean, if you really care about that product, give it to the sell it to somebody who you think will give it the most care and take it to the next level.
[00:38:06.600 --> 00:38:08.840] And if you have stock, that's really important.
[00:38:09.160 --> 00:38:15.160] But if you are staying on, your partner matters because that is then your boss.
[00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:17.480] And that is who you're going to work for.
[00:38:17.480 --> 00:38:22.440] And if you never had a boss like me before, I took that very seriously.
[00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:25.320] So I was like, it's a people transaction.
[00:38:25.320 --> 00:38:26.760] It's people to people.
[00:38:26.760 --> 00:38:28.040] Again, like I said, it's a marriage.
[00:38:28.680 --> 00:38:30.360] It's a business marriage.
[00:38:30.360 --> 00:38:41.320] And so I needed to feel really confident that the CEO was somebody that I respected, which I really, really do, and someone that I feel like understands the vision and has the same vision.
[00:38:41.320 --> 00:38:42.520] And we did.
[00:38:42.840 --> 00:38:45.600] And it was like great.
[00:38:45.600 --> 00:38:48.240] I had to be so patient for that to come, though.
[00:38:44.200 --> 00:38:50.160] Like 14, it's 14 years now.
[00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:58.400] Which is also really helpful to hear when you see Rode being acquired after three years, that most businesses, that's not the trajectory, and that's not your story for most people.
[00:38:58.400 --> 00:39:00.640] For Rode, it's a different business.
[00:39:00.640 --> 00:39:01.920] It's a completely different business.
[00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:04.480] I think she had partners that were running the business.
[00:39:04.480 --> 00:39:05.360] She was the face of it.
[00:39:05.360 --> 00:39:06.800] She was the creative force behind it.
[00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:09.280] She was like the marketing arm of it.
[00:39:09.280 --> 00:39:12.320] It was a business that I thought was created to sell.
[00:39:12.320 --> 00:39:21.600] And actually, and I was talking to somebody about this yesterday, is that it's pretty funny, like women actually are not, women founders think about their business as babies.
[00:39:21.600 --> 00:39:24.720] And a lot of male founders start businesses to sell them.
[00:39:24.720 --> 00:39:25.520] Yes.
[00:39:25.520 --> 00:39:28.720] And I'm actually love seeing Rode exit like that.
[00:39:28.720 --> 00:39:30.000] I thought that was great.
[00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:33.200] Like take, like sell it at the peak.
[00:39:33.200 --> 00:39:36.880] And that was another thing is like you should wait for your moment.
[00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:38.000] Think about that peak.
[00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:41.280] It's like it's a timing game and a partner game.
[00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:48.400] So it's like, is this the best deal that I could believe that I could do in the next five years?
[00:39:48.720 --> 00:39:49.680] Probably.
[00:39:49.680 --> 00:39:52.320] Is it always going to be the best deal ever?
[00:39:52.320 --> 00:39:52.960] Probably not.
[00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:55.600] There's always a sacrifice on both ends.
[00:39:55.600 --> 00:40:00.880] But you want both parties to be a little annoyed, but also very happy.
[00:40:01.200 --> 00:40:03.120] And I think that's what makes the best deal.
[00:40:03.120 --> 00:40:06.160] But I am, I love that Road exited like that.
[00:40:06.160 --> 00:40:09.040] And I think, again, like, she built it to scale it.
[00:40:09.040 --> 00:40:11.360] It's a completely different business, right?
[00:40:11.360 --> 00:40:14.080] Because now Elf is going to take it into another dimension.
[00:40:14.080 --> 00:40:15.040] It's amazing.
[00:40:15.040 --> 00:40:15.520] Yeah.
[00:40:16.080 --> 00:40:22.640] You don't have to answer this question, but I'm always really curious about like once you sell your company, what do you do with the money?
[00:40:22.640 --> 00:40:24.880] Like, do you have like a wealth manager, someone?
[00:40:24.880 --> 00:40:29.000] I bet you get all of the emails from all of the people trying to like be your advisors.
[00:40:28.800 --> 00:40:29.080] Yeah.
[00:40:28.960 --> 00:40:29.640] Yeah.
[00:40:29.880 --> 00:40:30.760] But like what happens?
[00:40:29.040 --> 00:40:31.560] No, I'm happy to share.
[00:40:29.520 --> 00:40:29.680] Yeah.
[00:40:32.040 --> 00:40:39.000] I think talking about like women and finance and money is shouldn't be hush-hush.
[00:40:39.080 --> 00:40:39.640] It's not a hobby.
[00:40:39.640 --> 00:40:40.920] We're like trying to make money here.
[00:40:40.920 --> 00:40:42.520] This is why people are building businesses.
[00:40:42.520 --> 00:40:50.440] So one of the best advice I got from my dad was that he's like, you should treat your finances like it is a business.
[00:40:50.440 --> 00:40:51.800] You need to think about them.
[00:40:51.800 --> 00:40:53.240] And I'm still learning how to do that.
[00:40:53.240 --> 00:40:54.360] That is not easy.
[00:40:54.360 --> 00:40:57.080] Like I wish they taught us that in school.
[00:40:57.080 --> 00:40:58.040] It's not easy.
[00:40:58.040 --> 00:41:04.120] Sometimes I also sit in my like financial advisor meeting and I'm like, just can you tell me what the return was?
[00:41:04.440 --> 00:41:05.240] Is there a return?
[00:41:05.240 --> 00:41:06.600] Like, should I be worried?
[00:41:06.600 --> 00:41:14.040] But no, you have to learn what all of it means and where it's invested and like follow along because that is a skill that is so valuable.
[00:41:14.040 --> 00:41:15.320] But what did I do?
[00:41:15.320 --> 00:41:21.080] First thing, I invested in my children's 529 and I set up my kids for 529.
[00:41:21.400 --> 00:41:24.360] It's a college fund that has tax benefits of some sort.
[00:41:24.360 --> 00:41:25.160] Yes.
[00:41:25.160 --> 00:41:27.320] And then I invested it.
[00:41:27.320 --> 00:41:31.880] I bought myself like a nice piece of jewelry and I invested it.
[00:41:31.880 --> 00:41:32.520] I was it.
[00:41:32.600 --> 00:41:38.600] I already moved out to like the suburbs at that point because I was like, I need a house for my child.
[00:41:38.600 --> 00:41:40.440] Like I don't have enough space.
[00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:46.520] And yeah, so I was just kind of, yeah, I really just, I wanted to invest it and then I just kept building my company.
[00:41:46.520 --> 00:41:48.360] Like that was, that was it.
[00:41:48.360 --> 00:41:52.680] But I think go buy whatever you want.
[00:41:52.680 --> 00:41:55.080] That is your money to celebrate.
[00:41:55.400 --> 00:41:57.400] Do whatever you want with it.
[00:41:57.400 --> 00:41:59.880] Don't spend it all in one day.
[00:42:00.200 --> 00:42:04.440] Invest as much as you can, but have some, like, enjoy it.
[00:42:04.920 --> 00:42:05.240] Celebrate.
[00:42:05.480 --> 00:42:06.200] Enjoy it.
[00:42:06.200 --> 00:42:13.080] But I think a lot when it comes to money is really understanding your values and like what is important to you.
[00:42:13.080 --> 00:42:20.160] For me, my number one value is like family security and stability.
[00:42:20.160 --> 00:42:22.640] My parents are, I'm a first-generation American.
[00:42:22.640 --> 00:42:28.880] My parents came here with absolutely zero, and I was born within nine months of that.
[00:42:28.880 --> 00:42:29.440] Wow.
[00:42:29.440 --> 00:42:35.680] So, you know, I watched them, you know, truly live the American dream.
[00:42:35.680 --> 00:42:37.680] My mom became a doctor here.
[00:42:37.680 --> 00:42:40.560] She like had to take, she had to go back to college.
[00:42:40.560 --> 00:42:42.960] And this is all go to medical school.
[00:42:42.960 --> 00:42:51.520] I moved like 10 times, maybe seven times before I was 10 because we were going from like school, then she was going to medical school.
[00:42:51.520 --> 00:42:55.040] And then we were building to what we could afford.
[00:42:55.360 --> 00:43:10.400] And so stability, like not that I didn't feel unstable, but when I did land in my like place that I grew up in, like at 10, where I met all my friends that I'm still friends with now, my co-founders, my husband's also from the same high school.
[00:43:10.400 --> 00:43:16.160] But I just believe in that like stability and like also independence.
[00:43:16.160 --> 00:43:18.160] Like that's why my mom was a doctor.
[00:43:18.160 --> 00:43:21.120] I was like, and that's you're basically running a business.
[00:43:21.120 --> 00:43:22.160] It's the same thing.
[00:43:22.160 --> 00:43:24.720] So that's why I kind of just went straight into investment.
[00:43:24.720 --> 00:43:27.040] But look, I like to buy nice things too.
[00:43:27.040 --> 00:43:28.080] What an incredible story.
[00:43:28.080 --> 00:43:30.720] And what an amazing thing to then be able to create for your family.
[00:43:30.720 --> 00:43:33.040] Like that must give you so much satisfaction.
[00:43:33.040 --> 00:43:34.640] You saying it makes me want to cry.
[00:43:34.640 --> 00:43:35.600] So yeah, it is.
[00:43:35.600 --> 00:43:37.840] It is really nice and it's really rewarding.
[00:43:37.840 --> 00:43:44.880] And I sometimes think about it and I'm like, I am so, I'm, I was destined also to have a daughter.
[00:43:44.880 --> 00:43:48.480] I just like knew I was going to have a daughter, and I was like, I need to show her.
[00:43:48.480 --> 00:43:49.440] Are you going to cry too?
[00:43:49.440 --> 00:43:50.240] Yes.
[00:43:51.200 --> 00:43:54.640] I was going to show her that, you know, like working hard.
[00:43:54.800 --> 00:43:55.840] My God.
[00:43:56.160 --> 00:43:59.200] Working hard like gets you what you want.
[00:43:59.200 --> 00:44:01.640] You know, you can get anything you want.
[00:44:02.200 --> 00:44:03.000] I love that.
[00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:03.480] There you go.
[00:44:03.480 --> 00:44:04.440] He's a.
[00:44:04.440 --> 00:44:05.640] Thank you.
[00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:06.120] Oh, my God.
[00:44:06.280 --> 00:44:08.520] Ma, like, postpartum does never end.
[00:44:08.520 --> 00:44:09.160] Yeah, no, I know.
[00:44:09.160 --> 00:44:10.680] It's like the rest of your life, I think.
[00:44:10.680 --> 00:44:11.720] Oh, God.
[00:44:12.280 --> 00:44:14.760] The last thing I want to ask you is for a resource recommendation.
[00:44:14.760 --> 00:44:21.080] And just something that other people who are out there building, they're trying to achieve the kind of things that you have achieved.
[00:44:21.080 --> 00:44:25.160] Like, what's something, a book, a resource, something they can go and check out?
[00:44:25.720 --> 00:44:37.400] Mine is kind of maybe a little bit obvious, but I just want to, and I learned this early on, that many businesses use Google Docs, Google Drive, Google Sheets.
[00:44:37.400 --> 00:44:41.880] Like, when I was doing it, I was like, oh my God, I'm just still doing, like, what is everybody using?
[00:44:42.200 --> 00:44:43.800] I need them, like, be something more sophisticated.
[00:44:45.160 --> 00:44:48.280] No, I just want to use it.
[00:44:48.280 --> 00:44:49.880] It's free for the most part.
[00:44:49.880 --> 00:44:51.880] It is so inexpensive.
[00:44:51.880 --> 00:44:56.760] Draw, like, and Google's not even a partner of mine, but if they want to be.
[00:44:56.760 --> 00:44:57.640] I mean, same.
[00:44:57.640 --> 00:44:58.680] Say Google.
[00:44:59.000 --> 00:45:02.360] Built the majority of the business on Google Drive.
[00:45:02.360 --> 00:45:06.040] We also built our accounting on QuickBooks.
[00:45:06.440 --> 00:45:18.680] That's a great tool until you were much, when your revenue hits a certain target, maybe it's like 20 million, 15 million, but you can be on QuickBooks until you're like 10 million at least.
[00:45:18.680 --> 00:45:22.280] And yeah, I love, I love Google Sheets.
[00:45:22.280 --> 00:45:23.160] I love the shared thing.
[00:45:23.160 --> 00:45:26.120] And now my team is using Canva.
[00:45:26.120 --> 00:45:28.120] And you would think, like, I love it.
[00:45:28.120 --> 00:45:32.440] And the reason why I love it is because they're investing in the AI of it all.
[00:45:32.760 --> 00:45:38.440] And, you know, I was on Google Sheets, but Canva produces a hundred sheets now, too.
[00:45:38.440 --> 00:45:39.240] Well, that's what I'm saying.
[00:45:39.240 --> 00:45:40.440] Canva is all shared.
[00:45:40.440 --> 00:45:45.040] And that's like anything really collaborative is super helpful for building a business.
[00:45:44.840 --> 00:45:49.760] And I'm sure everybody knows this, but I just want to also say that, like, you're not alone in this.
[00:45:50.080 --> 00:45:54.480] And you don't need to have it all so figured out all the time.
[00:45:54.800 --> 00:45:58.240] Most people are faking it till they make it, like, whatever it is.
[00:45:58.240 --> 00:45:59.920] But I don't even think it's faking it.
[00:45:59.920 --> 00:46:01.440] It's just figuring it out.
[00:46:01.440 --> 00:46:02.000] Yeah.
[00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:08.960] We're all just building the plane as we fly it, as everybody in my company says when we're talking about the things.
[00:46:08.960 --> 00:46:13.760] It's just the, it's just the nature of building a company.
[00:46:13.760 --> 00:46:15.920] Like, that's what it means to be a founder.
[00:46:15.920 --> 00:46:17.600] It's scrappy.
[00:46:17.920 --> 00:46:19.600] It's tough.
[00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:23.360] And you're always going to be the one fixing problems.
[00:46:23.360 --> 00:46:27.840] Very, this is another thing that I learned and I learned to accept and now I love it.
[00:46:27.840 --> 00:46:31.120] Is that I was like, why am I always the one like us to like deal with the problems?
[00:46:31.120 --> 00:46:33.200] Why can't I celebrate the success?
[00:46:33.520 --> 00:46:36.320] Well, you, because that's your job.
[00:46:36.320 --> 00:46:40.080] Your job is to come and come in and be like, yeah, that's great.
[00:46:40.080 --> 00:46:40.640] We're great.
[00:46:40.640 --> 00:46:41.280] We succeeded.
[00:46:41.280 --> 00:46:42.480] Good job, everybody.
[00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:44.240] Now I need to deal with this fire.
[00:46:44.240 --> 00:46:45.680] And it's always the fires.
[00:46:45.680 --> 00:46:48.000] And now I see it as like a puzzle.
[00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:48.880] It's fun for me.
[00:46:48.880 --> 00:46:54.560] I was literally saying to Hannah, someone on my team who's asked, what's your favorite part of the job?
[00:46:54.560 --> 00:46:56.080] And I was like, she was like, is it the podcasting?
[00:46:56.160 --> 00:46:59.600] I was like, no, I love when like we have something to deal with.
[00:46:59.600 --> 00:47:02.880] And I was like, okay, I'm going to roll up my sleeves and figure it out with you guys.
[00:47:02.880 --> 00:47:03.440] That's amazing.
[00:47:03.440 --> 00:47:04.640] That's my, that's fun.
[00:47:04.640 --> 00:47:06.480] But I just wanted to say, you're not alone.
[00:47:06.480 --> 00:47:07.040] Amazing.
[00:47:07.040 --> 00:47:09.040] This is such an incredible story.
[00:47:09.040 --> 00:47:12.240] Thank you so much, Eileen, for coming on the show and sharing this with us.
[00:47:12.240 --> 00:47:12.800] Thank you.
[00:47:12.800 --> 00:47:14.160] Yeah, congratulations on what you built.
[00:47:14.560 --> 00:47:14.960] Thank you.
[00:47:14.960 --> 00:47:16.080] Sorry for crying.
[00:47:16.160 --> 00:47:17.440] No, crying is fine.
[00:47:17.440 --> 00:47:18.720] I cried too.
[00:47:19.040 --> 00:47:26.800] I just wanted to jump in and end the show with a quick thank you and shout out to all of our paid Business Bestie subscribers.
[00:47:26.800 --> 00:47:35.080] Business Besties bypass literally years of networking by getting access to all of the people that you need to build your dream business.
[00:47:35.400 --> 00:47:45.560] You also get invited to exclusive monthly group business coaching call sessions where you can speak to experts and founders and ask them all of those questions that you just can't Google.
[00:47:45.640 --> 00:47:47.160] You can cancel anytime.
[00:47:47.160 --> 00:47:52.120] Head to bestie.femalfounderworld.com or click the link in the show notes for more.

Prompt 2: Key Takeaways

Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.

Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...". 

Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive. 

IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}

Prompt 3: Segments

Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.

For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)  
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion

IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
  "segments": [
    {
      "segment_title": "Topic Discussion", 
      "timestamp": "01:15:30",
      "key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
      "segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
    }
  ]
}

Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.

Prompt 4: Media Mentions

Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:

Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)  
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)

DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names

IMPORTANT: 
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
  "media_mentions": [
    {
      "title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
      "category": "Book",
      "author_artist": "N/A",
      "context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
      "context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
      "timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
    }
  ]
}

If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}

Full Transcript

[00:00:04.880 --> 00:00:07.600] Hey, Bus Asbesties, welcome back to Female Found World.
[00:00:07.600 --> 00:00:08.400] It's Jasmine.
[00:00:08.400 --> 00:00:12.400] I'm the host of the show and the person behind all things Female Found World.
[00:00:12.400 --> 00:00:14.320] Today I'm chatting with Aileen Drexler.
[00:00:14.320 --> 00:00:16.960] She is the co-founder and CEO of Betches Media.
[00:00:16.960 --> 00:00:17.520] Welcome.
[00:00:17.520 --> 00:00:18.480] Thanks for having me.
[00:00:18.480 --> 00:00:20.960] For people that don't know Beches, what are you doing?
[00:00:20.960 --> 00:00:24.320] Betches is the most powerful and influential media brand for women.
[00:00:24.320 --> 00:00:25.840] We started in 2011.
[00:00:25.840 --> 00:00:40.400] I started it with my two childhood friends in college, never meant to be a business, and grew it, bootstrapped it, and exited in 2023 for seven multi-seven figures.
[00:00:40.400 --> 00:00:40.880] Wow.
[00:00:40.880 --> 00:00:41.280] Yeah.
[00:00:41.280 --> 00:00:45.040] So I'm still the CEO and scaling the business today.
[00:00:45.040 --> 00:00:47.280] Okay, all of these things, like, it's so impressive.
[00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:49.200] And there are so many things I want to cover with you.
[00:00:49.200 --> 00:00:52.880] I want to talk about the early days of building a brand, getting traction.
[00:00:52.880 --> 00:01:00.160] I want to talk about the state of building in the media space right now and your advice for getting attention and creating content online.
[00:01:00.160 --> 00:01:00.560] Let's do it.
[00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:01.840] We're going to talk about hiring.
[00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:04.640] We're going to talk about bootstrapping and what happens after an acquisition.
[00:01:04.640 --> 00:01:06.400] So these are all things we're going to cover.
[00:01:06.400 --> 00:01:08.880] But let's start back in 2011.
[00:01:08.880 --> 00:01:10.400] You started as a website, right?
[00:01:10.400 --> 00:01:11.120] Yeah, a blog.
[00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:11.840] Okay, a blog.
[00:01:11.840 --> 00:01:12.240] Yeah.
[00:01:12.240 --> 00:01:13.040] Back in the day.
[00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:14.400] Yeah, it was a blog.
[00:01:15.600 --> 00:01:18.480] After post, after post, just one a day.
[00:01:18.480 --> 00:01:20.000] How did you get started?
[00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:20.720] Boy.
[00:01:20.720 --> 00:01:22.320] It was 2011.
[00:01:22.320 --> 00:01:23.280] So we were in college.
[00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:24.320] We were seniors in college.
[00:01:24.320 --> 00:01:26.400] Me and my two co-founders, Dran and Sammy.
[00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:28.960] At the time, they were just my friends.
[00:01:28.960 --> 00:01:31.840] And we were actually friends since we were 10 years old.
[00:01:31.840 --> 00:01:34.000] We went to elementary school together.
[00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:35.920] Like Sammy and I were on the bus together.
[00:01:35.920 --> 00:01:42.320] Dragana and I are both our moms, our OBGYNs, and they introduced us at our fifth grade graduation.
[00:01:42.320 --> 00:01:50.720] And we, at the time, there was like a really strong bro culture that existed for men, especially in college.
[00:01:50.720 --> 00:01:58.800] And for women at the time, the internet culture was really all about how can you be perfect for your man?
[00:01:58.800 --> 00:02:12.120] And it was all about being perfect paired with the three of us were in a sorority and everything we were hearing was also like look cute for these fret party and the three of us were like no like absolutely not.
[00:02:12.120 --> 00:02:14.920] It was like the antithesis of everything we believed in.
[00:02:14.920 --> 00:02:19.880] And but at the same time on TV we saw Chelsea Handler.
[00:02:19.880 --> 00:02:21.160] She was just so unapologetic.
[00:02:21.160 --> 00:02:21.960] She was so funny.
[00:02:21.960 --> 00:02:23.720] She was just speaking her mind.
[00:02:23.720 --> 00:02:26.440] Amy Pohler and Tina Faye writing Mean Girls.
[00:02:26.440 --> 00:02:28.360] That was like our Bible.
[00:02:28.360 --> 00:02:29.400] We loved it.
[00:02:29.400 --> 00:02:39.160] And then we just, there's many Kalings and there were just so many women who were comedians or who were almost speaking their truth via humor.
[00:02:39.160 --> 00:02:40.680] And that's what we related to.
[00:02:40.680 --> 00:02:42.440] And we were like, that doesn't exist online.
[00:02:42.440 --> 00:02:45.880] Let's start a blog, make fun of ourselves and our friends.
[00:02:45.880 --> 00:02:47.880] Let's talk about how flawed we are.
[00:02:47.880 --> 00:02:49.480] Almost kind of like bros do.
[00:02:49.480 --> 00:02:51.240] It's like a glorified culture.
[00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:52.280] Let's do that for women.
[00:02:52.280 --> 00:02:53.400] Let's call it betches.
[00:02:53.560 --> 00:02:56.040] Let's not tell anybody that it's us.
[00:02:56.360 --> 00:03:01.000] And so we launched this blog totally as like a like a hobby.
[00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:01.960] We were all creative.
[00:03:01.960 --> 00:03:05.240] We were writing like a TV show also at the same time for just fun.
[00:03:05.240 --> 00:03:06.280] I wanted to be a doctor at the time.
[00:03:06.280 --> 00:03:07.000] I was pre-med.
[00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:07.800] I studied pre-med.
[00:03:07.800 --> 00:03:09.000] I graduated pre-med.
[00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:10.280] Did not become a doctor.
[00:03:10.280 --> 00:03:12.200] But it just went viral.
[00:03:12.200 --> 00:03:14.600] Like it went viral on Facebook.
[00:03:14.600 --> 00:03:16.920] People sharing it wall to wall.
[00:03:16.920 --> 00:03:18.920] Like really because, like I said, it was anonymous.
[00:03:18.920 --> 00:03:23.400] So I saw like one girl tagging her friend being like, is this you?
[00:03:23.400 --> 00:03:25.240] How do you know me so well?
[00:03:25.640 --> 00:03:28.120] This is the funniest thing I've ever read.
[00:03:28.120 --> 00:03:30.280] And at that time, I was like, what?
[00:03:30.600 --> 00:03:32.360] Like, I've never been to North Carolina.
[00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:35.880] Why does this person think that I know them so well?
[00:03:35.880 --> 00:03:39.880] And it just kind of became this phenomenon at that time.
[00:03:39.880 --> 00:03:44.680] And it was funny because we were like, I'm not going to tell anybody that it's us because we want jobs.
[00:03:44.880 --> 00:03:49.040] And we try to understand like really why was it so popular?
[00:03:49.040 --> 00:03:59.840] And what I now understand is that we were really describing what it was to be a woman at that time, a young girl, and not in a way that was condescending.
[00:03:59.840 --> 00:04:02.080] Like we weren't telling anybody how to be.
[00:04:02.080 --> 00:04:03.520] It was like, this is how we are.
[00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:05.360] And let's make fun of ourselves.
[00:04:05.360 --> 00:04:11.920] You 100% are just so clever at making women feel seen for how they are.
[00:04:11.920 --> 00:04:12.960] Exactly what you just said.
[00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:14.720] You know, thank you.
[00:04:14.720 --> 00:04:18.000] It's so amazing to see the through line of where you started and where you are today.
[00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:22.640] And even though the business is so much bigger, you have 100 employees, you've exited all of these things.
[00:04:22.640 --> 00:04:29.120] It's like that kernel, that essence is still exactly what the brand does now, but just amplified.
[00:04:29.120 --> 00:04:29.920] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:04:29.920 --> 00:04:30.800] That is my why.
[00:04:30.800 --> 00:04:32.480] That's why I get up every day.
[00:04:32.640 --> 00:04:37.680] It's to make women laugh and to feel a little less alone.
[00:04:37.680 --> 00:04:40.160] And that's what we're all trying to do, right?
[00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:44.400] Like we're always, everybody's in this pursuit of happiness, pursuit of joy.
[00:04:44.400 --> 00:04:46.880] Like what brings more joy than laughter?
[00:04:46.880 --> 00:04:51.040] Even in the darkest of times, humor is the medicine for that.
[00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:53.680] And then also, aren't we all trying to be a little bit less lonely?
[00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:57.840] So like, isn't it nice to feel seen online when somebody just kind of gets you?
[00:04:57.840 --> 00:04:59.680] And then you can then share it with a friend.
[00:04:59.680 --> 00:05:00.960] So that's, that's my why.
[00:05:00.960 --> 00:05:02.080] That's why I get up.
[00:05:02.080 --> 00:05:07.840] And some of the other milestones that you didn't mention, Betches reaches 250 million plus people, which is incredible.
[00:05:07.840 --> 00:05:10.720] And your engagement is 15 times higher than your competitors.
[00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:11.680] Yeah, that's pretty fun.
[00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:12.960] That's pretty amazing.
[00:05:12.960 --> 00:05:13.520] Yeah.
[00:05:13.520 --> 00:05:15.280] So you were anonymous in 2011.
[00:05:15.280 --> 00:05:19.920] It wasn't until 2013 when you released a book that people found out who you were.
[00:05:19.920 --> 00:05:30.360] The thought now of building a media brand and being anonymous, just with all of these like founder cancellations and like everyone's on TikTok and you have to build in public and it just would be so nice.
[00:05:30.600 --> 00:05:34.680] I would love to be invisible behind this brand, but it's impossible now.
[00:05:29.920 --> 00:05:35.480] Yeah, it's impossible.
[00:05:35.640 --> 00:05:38.120] Even I, like, I am a private person.
[00:05:38.120 --> 00:05:47.000] I like to kind of just, I'd rather build privately, but I also see the benefits of, you know, founder marketing, founder-led marketing, and all of that.
[00:05:47.000 --> 00:05:47.400] So.
[00:05:47.720 --> 00:05:48.440] And here you are.
[00:05:48.440 --> 00:05:49.880] And here I am, you know?
[00:05:49.880 --> 00:05:52.360] It's also like it is uncomfortable for me personally.
[00:05:52.360 --> 00:05:58.200] Like, I'm not a public speaker, but I've learned that and I like learned to flex that muscle over time.
[00:05:58.200 --> 00:05:59.240] And it's tough.
[00:05:59.240 --> 00:06:00.200] I agree with you.
[00:06:00.200 --> 00:06:07.000] And you, as well as being the co-founder and the CEO and leading this business and this team, you also are on a podcast as well.
[00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:08.600] You're also like creating media products.
[00:06:08.600 --> 00:06:10.520] How do you switch that hat?
[00:06:11.400 --> 00:06:12.520] I've been doing it for a long time.
[00:06:14.200 --> 00:06:16.600] I've been doing it a long time, to be honest.
[00:06:16.600 --> 00:06:22.520] So like the trajectory of the business was, okay, so we launched this book, New York Times bestseller.
[00:06:22.520 --> 00:06:26.440] We've written two books since then, also, bestsellers.
[00:06:26.440 --> 00:06:31.320] In the meantime, we launched an e-comm business to diversify our revenue from advertising.
[00:06:31.320 --> 00:06:33.640] And we launched our first podcast.
[00:06:33.640 --> 00:06:38.840] And that was really early on in 2015, maybe the end of 2015.
[00:06:38.840 --> 00:06:43.320] And so I've been learning how to podcast since then.
[00:06:43.320 --> 00:06:45.240] And that's 10 years.
[00:06:45.240 --> 00:06:45.800] Oh, my God.
[00:06:45.800 --> 00:06:47.320] That's 10 years.
[00:06:47.320 --> 00:06:51.400] And so I've learned how to switch for that long.
[00:06:51.400 --> 00:06:53.400] It just takes practice.
[00:06:53.400 --> 00:07:01.720] And now I'll go from like a finance meeting directly into a podcast recording where I'm talking about like Hailey Bieber.
[00:07:02.360 --> 00:07:03.960] And then I'll just switch it back.
[00:07:03.960 --> 00:07:04.920] It's tough.
[00:07:04.920 --> 00:07:10.280] I think earlier on, I was doing podcasts that were a lot more personal about my life.
[00:07:10.600 --> 00:07:11.800] One was called Diet Starts Tomorrow.
[00:07:11.800 --> 00:07:12.920] I did that for four years.
[00:07:13.080 --> 00:07:14.360] That was insanely popular.
[00:07:14.440 --> 00:07:16.080] Talk about building a community.
[00:07:16.080 --> 00:07:19.280] There were people, our fans, Go DS tiers.
[00:07:19.280 --> 00:07:23.360] They would go on vacation together because they found each other through the show.
[00:07:23.360 --> 00:07:27.600] Because I was just sharing really vulnerably and very openly.
[00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:40.080] And I would say switching from that was way harder because you would call it like a vulnerability hangover where you just feel like, oh my God, what did I just say?
[00:07:40.080 --> 00:07:41.600] Who did I just let in?
[00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:43.680] And as a private person, that's hard.
[00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:44.880] I'm shy.
[00:07:45.200 --> 00:07:46.560] And it was tough.
[00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:54.720] But now I've kind of pivoted away from that because I found that I couldn't show up to be the CEO that I needed to be while also feeling that way.
[00:07:54.720 --> 00:08:01.520] So I've pivoted to being a little bit more, doing a little bit more surface-level content, like pop culture and friendships with my two co-founders.
[00:08:01.520 --> 00:08:03.280] So that's our At Betches podcast.
[00:08:03.280 --> 00:08:11.120] So that I can go from like finance to podcast, Taylor Bieber, to ops or growth.
[00:08:11.120 --> 00:08:13.680] And so that's been a really intentional switch for you.
[00:08:13.680 --> 00:08:14.160] Definitely.
[00:08:14.160 --> 00:08:15.520] Yeah, definitely.
[00:08:15.520 --> 00:08:18.400] I think about this a lot about exactly what you said.
[00:08:18.400 --> 00:08:21.760] Like, who are you going to let into this really personal stuff in your life?
[00:08:21.760 --> 00:08:31.600] And what is the trade-off for being like participating in the Vulnerability Olympics that is the internet in order to grow your company?
[00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:32.320] And it is.
[00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:33.600] It's a vulnerability Olympics.
[00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:38.720] It's like who can be the rawest and share the most on the internet and have the most, like, the biggest reaction.
[00:08:38.720 --> 00:08:53.360] And the trade-off for doing that, about like how that feels, even if the response is positive, like the vulnerable, like the the rawness that that takes and sharing from this point of, and this is like an old boss of mine used to say this.
[00:08:53.360 --> 00:08:54.720] I've worked in media for a long time.
[00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:58.160] And she used to say, like you should you should share from a scar, not a wound.
[00:08:58.160 --> 00:09:13.960] And this idea of like sharing in the moment of when you're going through something is really like quite dangerous and actually once you have a bit more like perspective to be able to share about something and offer some more insights like that's when you should share but no one does that No, no one does that.
[00:09:13.960 --> 00:09:17.560] And I definitely didn't do that when I was doing that DST podcast.
[00:09:17.560 --> 00:09:19.560] But I did grow from it personally.
[00:09:19.560 --> 00:09:24.120] Like I really learned from it so much so that I felt the confidence to step away from it.
[00:09:24.120 --> 00:09:26.600] And that was a really nice growing opportunity.
[00:09:26.600 --> 00:09:28.360] But no, I 100% agree with you.
[00:09:28.360 --> 00:09:31.560] And I love that phrase, sharing from a scar.
[00:09:31.560 --> 00:09:39.720] The thing also that I would say is when you're sharing and being vulnerable online is that once you go there, your audience expects it of you.
[00:09:39.720 --> 00:09:40.440] Yes.
[00:09:40.440 --> 00:09:45.080] So you have to be willing to then show up consistently like that.
[00:09:45.080 --> 00:09:46.920] And that's a commitment.
[00:09:46.920 --> 00:09:49.240] Sure, you can pivot, but then you might lose that audience.
[00:09:49.240 --> 00:09:51.160] You have to be willing to do that.
[00:09:51.160 --> 00:09:59.640] I would say, I don't think you need to be like so raw to grow a community.
[00:09:59.640 --> 00:10:01.000] And to connect with people.
[00:10:01.000 --> 00:10:01.400] Exactly.
[00:10:01.400 --> 00:10:04.280] I think you have so much to offer.
[00:10:04.280 --> 00:10:13.720] And it's really finding what do you feel like is sustainable for you to talk about for call it five years.
[00:10:13.880 --> 00:10:17.080] I may not be able to talk about this forever, but I can talk about this for five years.
[00:10:17.080 --> 00:10:22.040] And also, I don't see many male CEOs talking about infertility on the internet, you know?
[00:10:23.000 --> 00:10:27.560] And a lot of infertility is because of, you know, is because of men, but they're not talking about it on the internet.
[00:10:27.560 --> 00:10:29.080] Good thing, whether that's good or bad.
[00:10:29.480 --> 00:10:30.760] No, you're right.
[00:10:30.760 --> 00:10:31.320] You're right.
[00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:32.440] But women are expected to.
[00:10:32.440 --> 00:10:33.240] It's an interesting one.
[00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:35.080] Okay, so 2013, you launched the book.
[00:10:35.080 --> 00:10:38.120] That's really the first time you made money from the business, right?
[00:10:38.120 --> 00:10:39.480] Yeah, yes.
[00:10:39.480 --> 00:10:41.640] I wouldn't say, yeah, we got an advance.
[00:10:41.640 --> 00:10:41.880] Yeah.
[00:10:41.960 --> 00:10:44.320] Small advance shared between the three of us.
[00:10:43.880 --> 00:10:45.840] And that was the first time we made any money.
[00:10:44.200 --> 00:10:50.080] And that was the first time my parents were like, okay, you can...
[00:10:44.920 --> 00:10:51.600] I was living at home for two years.
[00:10:51.920 --> 00:10:54.320] Again, like, I was planning to go to medical school.
[00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:56.560] So I didn't have any money.
[00:10:56.560 --> 00:11:02.000] And I was planning to spend, like, go into debt after that to go to medical school.
[00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:02.880] So I didn't have any money.
[00:11:02.880 --> 00:11:05.680] So I asked my parents if I could just like live at home while I build this business.
[00:11:05.680 --> 00:11:10.960] They were like, okay, but if you're going to live in the city, you have to make your own money and then pay for that apartment.
[00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:13.040] So of course, I listened.
[00:11:13.040 --> 00:11:15.440] I don't, you know, my parents are smart.
[00:11:15.440 --> 00:11:17.120] Thankfully, I listened.
[00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:21.040] And yeah, that was kind of the first time I was able to afford this apartment.
[00:11:21.040 --> 00:11:28.080] It was like one of those fridges that were under the counter and many, many floors of walks downstairs.
[00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:29.040] I've had one of those.
[00:11:29.040 --> 00:11:30.320] Yeah, we all do.
[00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:37.680] We've got a pretty big gap to bridge now between getting acquired in 2023 and where you started the business.
[00:11:37.680 --> 00:11:42.480] And there's all of this growth, hiring, scaling that needs to happen in that stage.
[00:11:42.480 --> 00:11:49.120] And I think a lot of the business bestie community who are listening to the show are in that stage now and they're trying to figure that out.
[00:11:49.120 --> 00:11:57.680] And I want to learn a little bit more about what you did, like what some of those steps were that you took to help get to the point where this business could be acquired.
[00:11:58.320 --> 00:11:59.360] Okay, great question.
[00:11:59.360 --> 00:12:03.200] I do want to say that I wasn't looking to scale at that time.
[00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:04.800] That's what I'm kind of trying to do now.
[00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:13.040] I was really just trying to grow a sustainable business that made profit and a brand that could create legacy.
[00:12:13.040 --> 00:12:20.960] That was what I was focused on because again, it took me like, it's now 14 years, and I was acquired a year and a half ago.
[00:12:20.960 --> 00:12:21.600] Yeah.
[00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:26.800] So I, and I wasn't making like crazy amounts of revenue those few years.
[00:12:26.800 --> 00:12:35.800] There was considerable growth towards like the back half of that, but I would not call it scaling because I still only have about 100 employees.
[00:12:35.960 --> 00:12:39.720] Like, so I was really focused on that growth.
[00:12:39.720 --> 00:12:50.040] What I was also really conscious of growing is that I didn't want to create a brand that was centered around myself and my co-founders.
[00:12:50.040 --> 00:12:57.240] Like that was a very conscious decision because we wanted it to live on its own.
[00:12:57.240 --> 00:13:06.280] And we knew that, or at least I knew that for it to sell at some point, for it to be valuable, it needs to live without us.
[00:13:06.280 --> 00:13:08.200] Otherwise, it's a talent-based business.
[00:13:08.200 --> 00:13:13.720] And even when we were acquired, we were considered a talent-based business because we were kind of the heart of the brand.
[00:13:13.720 --> 00:13:27.480] But I've done considerable amount of work to extend and expand the IP beyond just the Betch's IP through our shows and the various temples that we have so that it can live outside of just us as founders.
[00:13:27.480 --> 00:13:32.520] And I think that I've done a pretty decent job of that since, but I'm still trying to grow that.
[00:13:32.520 --> 00:13:36.440] And I think a lot has to do with defining what the company is.
[00:13:36.440 --> 00:13:39.800] So for me, the company was an entertainment brand.
[00:13:39.800 --> 00:13:41.000] I wasn't trying to be a publisher.
[00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:43.720] I wasn't trying to compete with a Cosmo or do anything like that.
[00:13:43.720 --> 00:13:52.360] I just wanted to create an entertainment brand that's rooted in how can I make, like I said, how can I make people laugh and feel seen or less alone?
[00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:56.360] And that's what I was growing from.
[00:13:56.360 --> 00:14:04.840] What can I build that can A, sustain without me, and B, live beyond me, right?
[00:14:04.840 --> 00:14:12.520] So, for example, I always thought, if Instagram disappeared, would people go stand in line for Betches on Broadway?
[00:14:12.520 --> 00:14:17.440] And that was like the test that I always asked myself as we were building Betches.
[00:14:17.440 --> 00:14:19.760] And I still believe the answer is yes.
[00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:21.680] We have that really engaged community.
[00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:37.120] So, I was building for people to come back on their own, creating content that was just so good that made people feel so good that they would just kind of want to come back on their own or come in line for Batches on Broadway.
[00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:38.560] How does Betches make money?
[00:14:38.560 --> 00:14:42.560] Like, what is the revenue streams that you unlocked as you're building the business?
[00:14:42.560 --> 00:14:50.880] As we unlock, so when we first started, we were, I didn't know what an RFP was, which is a request for proposal for those starting out.
[00:14:51.200 --> 00:14:55.360] And we were kind of just monetizing on like Google Ads, on our blog.
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[00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:44.160] And then we launched our Instagram account, and accidentally we started monetizing our Instagram.
[00:15:44.160 --> 00:15:51.920] It was really a happen, like when a brand came to us and was like, Hey, like, your web is great, but what about your Instagram?
[00:15:51.920 --> 00:15:53.760] And we were like, Our Instagram?
[00:15:53.760 --> 00:15:55.680] I thought that was just for fun.
[00:15:55.680 --> 00:16:00.520] And because we were really just doing it to grow our audience and engage our audience, we just thought this was a great outlet.
[00:15:59.680 --> 00:16:04.680] Like, it's a great way to translate our blog into short form.
[00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:07.480] And, but we saw a brand that was interested.
[00:16:07.480 --> 00:16:08.680] And we're like, okay, great.
[00:16:08.680 --> 00:16:09.880] Let's try it.
[00:16:09.880 --> 00:16:14.040] And in the beginning, it was like, I'll throw up an ad that they sent me and like, I made some money.
[00:16:14.040 --> 00:16:17.160] I was like, this is more money than I made on my blog.
[00:16:17.160 --> 00:16:23.320] And in order to scale a website at that time, I knew I was not going to be able to afford that.
[00:16:23.320 --> 00:16:27.160] I would have had to have raised money to scale that website.
[00:16:27.160 --> 00:16:40.440] And I didn't want to let anybody else in the business in terms of like investors who can change the trajectory or the course of the future of the company and edit our creativity, our creative voice.
[00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:45.960] So I was like, how can I sustain what we have without having to raise money or let anybody in?
[00:16:45.960 --> 00:16:52.520] So I was like, okay, I'm not going to like build out this website that's going to compete again with the likes of the Cosmos.
[00:16:52.520 --> 00:17:03.800] And I was also seeing what it meant to drive that kind of scale for an audience is that you had to spend a lot of money on paid media for you then that whole arbitrage game.
[00:17:03.800 --> 00:17:04.680] So it wasn't for me.
[00:17:04.680 --> 00:17:05.480] I couldn't do it.
[00:17:05.480 --> 00:17:07.960] And I also didn't want to pay for clicks.
[00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:09.800] I wanted people to come back on their own.
[00:17:09.800 --> 00:17:14.680] So that's when I decided this is where we're going to make our money is social.
[00:17:14.680 --> 00:17:16.280] Let's figure that out and see how it goes.
[00:17:16.280 --> 00:17:17.560] Low margin business.
[00:17:17.560 --> 00:17:19.240] Let's do that.
[00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:21.800] And that just continued to grow and grow and grow.
[00:17:21.800 --> 00:17:25.800] And then I started, as I said, our e-comm shop, our merch business, and that started to grow.
[00:17:25.800 --> 00:17:27.880] And that's how I started to diversify the business.
[00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:31.160] And that's when me, Jordan, and Sammy started to diversify our roles, too.
[00:17:31.160 --> 00:17:32.200] Because I was like, you know what?
[00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:35.480] I'm going to take, we were all three writing one post together.
[00:17:35.800 --> 00:17:38.440] We were like sharing content.
[00:17:38.440 --> 00:17:42.440] We would all write our notes in for this one post because it was a craft.
[00:17:42.440 --> 00:17:44.280] Like we call it the batches in the detail.
[00:17:44.280 --> 00:17:48.960] Like the craft of creating one voice between three people takes practice.
[00:17:44.840 --> 00:17:49.840] And that's what we were doing.
[00:17:50.080 --> 00:17:54.000] And then we were like, you know what, maybe this is not sustainable.
[00:17:54.320 --> 00:17:58.800] So we started just shop batches on my own.
[00:17:58.800 --> 00:18:00.800] I was like, you know what?
[00:18:00.800 --> 00:18:04.160] I'll just build my own website on Shopify.
[00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:05.920] I did the customer service.
[00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:07.920] I designed the products.
[00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:08.880] I found the models.
[00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:09.920] I found the photographer.
[00:18:09.920 --> 00:18:11.600] I creatively directed the shoot.
[00:18:11.600 --> 00:18:12.880] Like, it was my baby.
[00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:14.160] It was so fun.
[00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:15.840] But, and that grew really well.
[00:18:15.840 --> 00:18:20.560] But then I watched our advertising revenue like really overtake that.
[00:18:20.560 --> 00:18:21.440] That scaled.
[00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:25.280] That grew at an exponential rate to where I could not ignore that.
[00:18:25.280 --> 00:18:27.920] So much of my effort was directed towards that.
[00:18:27.920 --> 00:18:30.720] And I had to find somebody else to run the shop.
[00:18:30.720 --> 00:18:33.440] And that's kind of how we continued to build.
[00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:34.160] We wrote two books.
[00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:37.280] So we, our advance kind of grew from there.
[00:18:37.280 --> 00:18:41.120] And we just kept funding the business through the profits.
[00:18:41.120 --> 00:18:42.400] That was the key.
[00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:47.440] You were one of the early brands on Instagram to do SpawnCon.
[00:18:47.760 --> 00:18:52.000] I would never call it SpawnCon because it was so much more than that.
[00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:52.400] Yeah.
[00:18:52.400 --> 00:18:52.880] I know.
[00:18:53.600 --> 00:18:55.440] But yes, because we weren't influencing.
[00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:56.720] Like, I was in front of camera.
[00:18:56.720 --> 00:18:57.200] Yeah.
[00:18:57.520 --> 00:19:10.800] Like, we were just creating how we can create an asset or a piece of branded content for a brand that doesn't require our faces, but still have that authentic voice that we use for batches.
[00:19:10.800 --> 00:19:11.840] And that was our pitch.
[00:19:11.840 --> 00:19:19.120] It was like, you have the creative minds that are creating all this original content with this insane engagement rate that's growing exponentially against everybody else.
[00:19:19.120 --> 00:19:21.440] We can make that branded asset for you.
[00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:24.880] And that was kind of how we pitched ourselves at that time.
[00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:26.000] And people wanted on board.
[00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:26.880] Brands wanted on board.
[00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:29.440] Bumble was one of our earliest clients.
[00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:33.480] They sponsored our second book party, and it was amazing.
[00:19:29.840 --> 00:19:35.960] It was so cool to be part of that story.
[00:19:36.280 --> 00:19:50.600] The way that a lot of like media brands work that I understand is that they kind of have, yes, you have the like partnerships, advertising part of the business, and they have these like content studios within that that are developing that content and working with brands.
[00:19:50.600 --> 00:19:54.440] How does Vetches work with brands and like what does that setup look like?
[00:19:54.760 --> 00:20:01.000] So over time, I've really changed the model of how we work with brands.
[00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:04.120] So in the past, like I was saying, it's a bit more transactional.
[00:20:04.120 --> 00:20:07.160] Like, you have, like, I can put a one-off on.
[00:20:07.560 --> 00:20:09.800] Over time, I was like, I don't want to do these one-offs.
[00:20:09.800 --> 00:20:12.920] I want to build relationships with my clients.
[00:20:12.920 --> 00:20:20.760] I want to make meaningful impact for their business goals because every business has problems and every business has a challenge to solve.
[00:20:20.760 --> 00:20:22.120] How can we do that?
[00:20:22.120 --> 00:20:39.000] And so we were working with clients and businesses that want to reach our very coveted audience, like female millennials and Gen Z, soon alpha are going to be one of the most sought-after audiences.
[00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:41.080] And we knew we had something there.
[00:20:41.080 --> 00:20:48.440] And so now the way that we work with clients, and we did so many different like iterations of what that is, so much test and learn.
[00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:51.080] I took many a risk.
[00:20:51.080 --> 00:21:01.640] And now the way that we work with our brands is exactly in that way, in that very consultative manner, being like a marketing partner for our brands.
[00:21:01.640 --> 00:21:04.760] And as I said earlier, we weren't the face.
[00:21:04.760 --> 00:21:07.240] Now we have so much talent within our business.
[00:21:07.240 --> 00:21:08.760] We have a creative studio.
[00:21:08.760 --> 00:21:15.920] Again, we have so many of the creatives who create our original content as part of our marketing, branded content.
[00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:17.760] But it's so much more than branded content.
[00:21:17.760 --> 00:21:22.640] Like, we start with strategy, we start with data, insights, then we go into creative.
[00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:27.680] Then we go into like, how is this going to live on batches?
[00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:29.760] How is it going to be distributed beyond vetches?
[00:21:29.760 --> 00:21:33.200] Like, we are real marketing partners for our clients.
[00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:39.680] We work with Pepsi's, Peacock, Duncan is a really big brand partner of ours.
[00:21:39.680 --> 00:21:41.280] And it's only growing.
[00:21:41.280 --> 00:21:44.080] Like, L'Oreal is an amazing client and things like that.
[00:21:44.080 --> 00:21:46.320] So it's only going to keep building.
[00:21:46.320 --> 00:21:51.120] And I'm really interested in how I can continue to innovate in this space.
[00:21:51.120 --> 00:21:57.440] How can you create partnerships with brands in a way that's not just like slapping on a logo or these?
[00:21:57.440 --> 00:22:09.040] You know, you see really cool Super Bowl ads, but like, how can you create like truly meaningful content for an audience that's not just like a one-off piece of content where a brand is integrated in and it's part of the story?
[00:22:09.040 --> 00:22:11.200] And that's what I'm thinking about now.
[00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:15.840] But, you know, it's just keep evolving over time and testing and learning.
[00:22:15.840 --> 00:22:25.840] Your story is not going to be the same as mine, but yours is going to be maybe better and more, you know, you might go somewhere completely different direction, do something crazier.
[00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:26.800] I want to know.
[00:22:26.800 --> 00:22:35.280] So for the people who are listening who want to explore partnerships, maybe not exactly the same format, like maybe their brands, they want to do BDB partnerships with other brands.
[00:22:36.320 --> 00:22:41.040] How do you bring those big companies in to want to work with you?
[00:22:41.840 --> 00:22:42.720] In what way?
[00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:44.320] Well, like, how do you, what's the process?
[00:22:44.320 --> 00:22:49.760] Like, very specifically, how do you, okay, like, what are the, what are the assets that you need when you're pitching?
[00:22:49.760 --> 00:22:52.240] What's the process of like getting in touch with someone?
[00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:55.840] How do you attract a big brand like that to want to work with you?
[00:22:55.840 --> 00:22:56.480] It depends.
[00:22:56.480 --> 00:22:57.360] Like, I have a sales team.
[00:22:57.360 --> 00:22:57.600] Yeah.
[00:22:57.600 --> 00:22:58.400] I didn't always have a sales team.
[00:22:58.480 --> 00:22:59.200] Yeah, you didn't always.
[00:22:59.280 --> 00:23:00.000] I didn't always have a sales team.
[00:23:00.760 --> 00:23:03.960] And in the beginning, we were really lucky that brands were just kind of coming to us.
[00:23:04.760 --> 00:23:11.320] And our challenge over a course of years was pivoting, like from being where we have to be the proactive ones.
[00:23:11.320 --> 00:23:12.920] Otherwise, we're not going to be able to grow.
[00:23:12.920 --> 00:23:15.080] Like, we can't just wait for people to come to us.
[00:23:15.080 --> 00:23:16.040] Like, how lucky is that?
[00:23:16.040 --> 00:23:17.720] That's going to turn off one day.
[00:23:17.720 --> 00:23:20.760] You need to learn the skill to go out and be proactive.
[00:23:20.760 --> 00:23:25.320] So that was a big pivot for my business and like bringing on the people who knew how to do that.
[00:23:25.320 --> 00:23:27.960] In terms of how do you do that?
[00:23:27.960 --> 00:23:30.760] It all starts with knowing what you are good at.
[00:23:30.760 --> 00:23:41.160] If you are not a salesperson, if you don't know how to speak, how to pitch yourself, there is no better salesperson though than a founder, I have to say, though.
[00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:43.960] So, A, I would work on that pitch with somebody.
[00:23:43.960 --> 00:23:49.400] Really figure out what impact can you make for that brand?
[00:23:49.400 --> 00:24:01.080] A lot of people I see like pitching themselves as like, here's all the things that I have, but no, change it to, here's all the things that I can do for you and the challenges that I can solve for you.
[00:24:01.080 --> 00:24:03.080] And let's make something great together.
[00:24:03.080 --> 00:24:06.120] That's the approach, I would say.
[00:24:06.120 --> 00:24:07.480] How to go about that.
[00:24:07.480 --> 00:24:09.640] So, let's say you don't have a salesperson.
[00:24:09.640 --> 00:24:11.000] Look up on LinkedIn.
[00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:12.680] Who's the person who makes decisions?
[00:24:12.680 --> 00:24:15.880] It's usually somebody on marketing, on brand.
[00:24:15.880 --> 00:24:17.160] Make a connection.
[00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:18.520] Be persistent.
[00:24:18.520 --> 00:24:21.080] Have your elevator pitch and always think about that.
[00:24:21.080 --> 00:24:25.560] Like, why does this person gonna care about your message?
[00:24:25.560 --> 00:24:27.560] Make it the size of a tweet.
[00:24:27.560 --> 00:24:31.240] Like, make it cute, small, maybe two tweets, whatever.
[00:24:31.240 --> 00:24:32.840] And don't sound so sales pitchy.
[00:24:32.840 --> 00:24:36.040] I find that when I sound really salesy, it doesn't work.
[00:24:36.040 --> 00:24:37.080] So I go back to my roots.
[00:24:37.080 --> 00:24:38.200] How do I sound authentic?
[00:24:38.200 --> 00:24:41.880] How do I sound like a person, a human being, speaking to another human being?
[00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:45.680] And so I'll say something like, Do you want me to do it?
[00:24:45.680 --> 00:24:46.080] Yeah.
[00:24:46.080 --> 00:24:46.640] Okay.
[00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:47.600] Tell me, let's do it.
[00:24:47.600 --> 00:24:54.080] I'll probably say, like, hi, I'm the CEO and founder of, I'm Eli, I'm the CEO and founder of Vetches Media.
[00:24:54.080 --> 00:24:58.800] If you've never heard of us, just ask any Millennial Gen Z woman, just trust me.
[00:24:58.800 --> 00:25:02.800] And then I'll ask, like, would love to talk about what you have going on.
[00:25:02.800 --> 00:25:03.760] Do research.
[00:25:03.760 --> 00:25:06.080] So look at something that they're doing.
[00:25:06.080 --> 00:25:11.280] Take out, take an insight that you would say, I see that you are X, Y, Z.
[00:25:11.280 --> 00:25:13.920] I'd love to support you in that.
[00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:15.280] Here's what we have going on.
[00:25:15.280 --> 00:25:28.000] Or like really briefly, like we are creating a space for women to whatever, or whatever you're, as an influencer or creator, what are you, what is your message?
[00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:29.520] What are you doing for an audience?
[00:25:29.520 --> 00:25:32.160] Pull out like a really key stat that's huge.
[00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:35.040] Like I would say, I was like, we have the highest engagement rate on social.
[00:25:35.040 --> 00:25:39.120] Like I would only say that one because no one's going to remember anything, right?
[00:25:39.120 --> 00:25:40.560] They're going to see one thing.
[00:25:40.560 --> 00:25:41.520] And then go from there.
[00:25:41.520 --> 00:25:43.680] Just go out and do as many of them.
[00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:45.600] Then you need materials.
[00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:48.960] So they're probably going to ask, like, send me a deck.
[00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:54.080] Your deck should be very short and it should have the most punchy things on there.
[00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:56.400] It should say what your why is.
[00:25:56.400 --> 00:26:00.480] It should show some brands you've worked with that are big.
[00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:02.880] And don't overwhelm with stuff.
[00:26:03.040 --> 00:26:05.520] That's also something that we had to pivot away from.
[00:26:05.520 --> 00:26:15.440] We put all of this, all of these words on a page that I was like, I don't even want to read this about myself, let alone somebody who has to read so many pictures a day.
[00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:16.480] That is such good insight.
[00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:18.160] If you don't want to read it, they don't want to read it.
[00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:19.840] And actually, that goes for everything you do.
[00:26:19.840 --> 00:26:26.720] If you don't like the thing that you've created, even if it's a deck, a piece of content, an email, if you wouldn't read it, don't put it out in the world.
[00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:27.600] Trust your gut on that.
[00:26:27.600 --> 00:26:30.840] Yes, don't do the things you think you should do.
[00:26:30.840 --> 00:26:35.000] It comes off so forced and inauthentic.
[00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:41.080] Do what you would want to do or read or listen to or whatever.
[00:26:41.080 --> 00:26:43.000] Switching gears for a second, who was your first hire?
[00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:44.200] Her name is Chloe.
[00:26:44.520 --> 00:26:46.360] We're still in contact.
[00:26:46.360 --> 00:26:47.160] We follow each other.
[00:26:47.160 --> 00:26:49.000] She's a wonderful little boy.
[00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:52.920] She was, I hired her to help with shop veggies.
[00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:57.480] And then that evolved, as I said, like as a business, she evolved to be more of like a right hand.
[00:26:57.560 --> 00:27:00.680] She did a bit of everything, graduated from college.
[00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:04.680] So she was like just looking for experience and she loved batches.
[00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:10.440] That was a key thing for finding somebody who was a fan, who loved what we did, who just kind of loved the product.
[00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:13.000] And then she moved on.
[00:27:13.000 --> 00:27:14.840] And I was proud of her.
[00:27:14.840 --> 00:27:17.320] It's like, you were so monumental in this.
[00:27:17.320 --> 00:27:18.440] It was our first hire.
[00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:24.680] That was the scariest thing I ever had to do was be responsible for somebody's life.
[00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:27.000] Like, you're leaving college.
[00:27:27.080 --> 00:27:31.720] You're going into the world and you're going to work for me and you're hoping that I could pay you every week.
[00:27:31.720 --> 00:27:33.800] Like, that was terrifying.
[00:27:33.800 --> 00:27:35.000] But we did it.
[00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:36.520] Go, Chloe.
[00:27:36.520 --> 00:27:38.040] And yeah, it was really great.
[00:27:38.040 --> 00:27:39.480] And then we just kind of slowly built.
[00:27:39.480 --> 00:27:41.640] Like, we did not, like I said, we didn't raise any money.
[00:27:41.640 --> 00:27:46.920] So I couldn't afford experts or people who had 15 years of experience.
[00:27:46.920 --> 00:27:52.280] And so I just hired the people that I felt like had potential that were green.
[00:27:52.280 --> 00:27:54.680] I could, you know, teach them.
[00:27:54.680 --> 00:27:56.600] And there were already three co-founders.
[00:27:56.600 --> 00:27:59.160] We could go where the business needed us.
[00:27:59.160 --> 00:28:04.360] And that was the route we took and slowly evolved the business.
[00:28:04.360 --> 00:28:07.400] The more the people we could afford, the more we built.
[00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:09.960] But we did it very methodically.
[00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:18.560] Never hired way too many people at once because, again, I really cared about the profit, like the Ibera, because that's what we were investing back in the business.
[00:28:14.840 --> 00:28:19.200] That's how we grew.
[00:28:19.360 --> 00:28:27.680] And that's essentially what got us to our exit because we were a revenue growth business and we were a profit, profitable business.
[00:28:27.760 --> 00:28:29.040] There are very few of those.
[00:28:29.040 --> 00:28:42.560] I want to talk about the exit now and your advice for people who want to build brands that can be acquired, what that process looked like, and then also afterwards, I want to talk about what changes because we've seen all of these big brands be acquired recently.
[00:28:42.560 --> 00:28:42.880] Sure.
[00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:47.920] Copy, touchland, road, like what happens in a business during that process and afterwards.
[00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:49.600] I mean, it's absolutely different for everyone.
[00:28:49.600 --> 00:28:52.640] But to your first question, what was it?
[00:28:52.640 --> 00:28:53.200] How do I get that?
[00:28:53.440 --> 00:29:01.040] What's the process of building a brand that can be acquired and bringing in someone who wants to buy you?
[00:29:01.360 --> 00:29:07.360] Okay, so over time, we've always had interest in our acquisition.
[00:29:07.360 --> 00:29:18.800] For us, it was about saying no and understanding like what any of that world, any of the words or phrases in that world meant.
[00:29:18.800 --> 00:29:22.320] Like the first time I saw the word, was it run rate?
[00:29:22.320 --> 00:29:23.280] Like, what's your run rate?
[00:29:23.280 --> 00:29:24.800] I'm like, I just graduated college.
[00:29:24.800 --> 00:29:25.280] I don't know.
[00:29:25.280 --> 00:29:26.960] Is it like my treadmill speed?
[00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:28.400] Like, what are you talking about?
[00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:32.160] I learned it really quickly because that's how you learn, right?
[00:29:32.160 --> 00:29:35.680] When somebody asks you a question and you have no clue, you're like, well, I'm going to find out.
[00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:39.280] So I had to learn on the job.
[00:29:39.280 --> 00:29:45.360] So there was learning about what, like, all the very series A, angel, family, friends and family, all of that.
[00:29:45.360 --> 00:29:49.120] For me, it was figuring out why would I would need investment.
[00:29:49.120 --> 00:29:59.360] So that was a key pivot is when I learned that actually I don't think that I'm not at the stage where I should bring on an investor.
[00:29:59.360 --> 00:30:02.760] I think that we just keep growing until we exit.
[00:30:03.080 --> 00:30:17.240] Because when you bring on an investor, you dilute your shares or you give your shares away, a piece of your shares, and then you have somebody in the business who has opinions on how to run that business.
[00:30:17.240 --> 00:30:20.840] So the person you bring on really matters.
[00:30:20.840 --> 00:30:24.520] You are marrying that person or that company.
[00:30:24.520 --> 00:30:31.800] And you have to understand over time, and this is what I learned, is like, what is the difference between PE and VC and all that type of money?
[00:30:31.800 --> 00:30:34.520] And what are the strings that come with that?
[00:30:34.520 --> 00:30:38.680] Because there are strings with like investor money.
[00:30:39.320 --> 00:30:47.080] So the reason why I decided not to bring on investors or bring on capital is because I didn't really feel like I needed to.
[00:30:47.080 --> 00:30:49.560] I liked the strategy that we were going with.
[00:30:49.560 --> 00:30:58.440] As I said, I was just kind of growing the business slowly and figuring out ways to grow the business with decent margins.
[00:30:58.440 --> 00:31:05.560] Say, though, I had a product that needed to be made and I yet didn't have the money to make it.
[00:31:05.560 --> 00:31:08.200] That's a completely different story.
[00:31:08.200 --> 00:31:15.720] So that's when it would make sense to raise money and bring on investors and help grow the business.
[00:31:16.040 --> 00:31:25.640] Carefully choose your investors, people who can give you actual strategy and support in building it, who can show you the ropes.
[00:31:25.640 --> 00:31:29.400] But because content was my product, that is marketing.
[00:31:29.400 --> 00:31:31.720] So it was free.
[00:31:31.720 --> 00:31:33.320] Thank you, Instagram, right?
[00:31:33.320 --> 00:31:35.320] Like, so it was easier.
[00:31:35.320 --> 00:31:40.120] But how you build a business, if we're talking about a media business, do you want me to talk about that?
[00:31:40.200 --> 00:31:41.560] Yeah, let's talk about media businesses.
[00:31:41.640 --> 00:31:43.640] Media business that grows to scale.
[00:31:43.640 --> 00:31:48.480] Again, I believe there is nothing better than a profitable company.
[00:31:49.120 --> 00:31:55.120] And so how do you scale or grow a business that makes profit?
[00:31:55.120 --> 00:32:10.880] And that's really understanding your finances or having somebody who can share with you what are your margins, what business within your business will bring you the most profit, what types of products, what, and then think about how do I make more of that?
[00:32:10.880 --> 00:32:17.920] What's the most efficient way to make that product in a way that's great for your audience?
[00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:21.760] Because the quality of your product is one of the most important things.
[00:32:21.760 --> 00:32:24.480] You don't want to be selling shit out there.
[00:32:24.800 --> 00:32:47.360] But I would say that growing a profitable business for me was what got the most interest all of those years and gave me the most leverage to sell my business and have a great exit and have incredible partners who are strategic and help me now scale the company.
[00:32:47.360 --> 00:32:48.480] Because I'm still on.
[00:32:48.480 --> 00:32:56.400] I'm the CEO of the business and I am taking the business into what I've always seen the vision for it.
[00:32:56.400 --> 00:32:58.960] And I'm doing it with a partner that can help me.
[00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:05.200] And a lot has been like really just strategic support, not even just like cat, like capital.
[00:33:05.200 --> 00:33:12.880] It's been strategic support because I was so focused on spending the money on the product and like the sales of it.
[00:33:12.880 --> 00:33:13.120] Yeah.
[00:33:13.280 --> 00:33:19.440] My ops, my like the back end part of the of it was super scrappy.
[00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:20.400] Still scrappy, yeah.
[00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:22.080] The whole thing was scrappy.
[00:33:22.080 --> 00:33:22.960] I'm not lying.
[00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:24.320] The thing was scrappy.
[00:33:24.320 --> 00:33:27.520] And in reality, all things are scrappy.
[00:33:27.520 --> 00:33:34.920] Like, if you're not scrappy, very it's hard to be profitable if you're not going to be scrappy in the beginning.
[00:33:35.080 --> 00:33:39.800] It's hard to be, but also most businesses that are successful are scrappy.
[00:33:39.800 --> 00:33:49.320] You have to learn how to spend money in a way that gives you the biggest return while not affecting your product or affecting the people that work for you.
[00:33:49.320 --> 00:33:52.680] Of course, that's your number one audience is your employees.
[00:33:52.680 --> 00:33:56.120] Then it's your audience, audience, your customers.
[00:33:56.120 --> 00:34:00.120] But that's that's the, I would say that's the toughest part.
[00:34:00.120 --> 00:34:11.000] But now they're offering a lot of operational rigor on that back end and setting that foundation even stronger to allow us to scale.
[00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:15.400] Like for you to scale, you need like an operating model that lends itself to scale.
[00:34:15.400 --> 00:34:30.920] And what that means is systems and technology and processes, which is the most unsexy part of creating a business, but extremely vital to build something that can keep making more money.
[00:34:30.920 --> 00:34:33.240] And you need insights, so that's part of it.
[00:34:33.240 --> 00:34:40.840] Like the data to know why something made more money than the next thing, why something did better.
[00:34:40.840 --> 00:34:44.840] If we're talking about media and content, why did one piece of content do better than the other?
[00:34:44.840 --> 00:34:49.080] Did this, yeah, it went viral, but it convert any users?
[00:34:49.080 --> 00:34:50.440] Did it convert customers?
[00:34:50.920 --> 00:34:53.480] Did you have any clients that came back?
[00:34:53.480 --> 00:34:55.720] What kind of marketing does well, B2B, B2C?
[00:34:55.720 --> 00:34:57.800] Like there's a lot that goes into it.
[00:34:57.800 --> 00:35:07.560] And that foundational support is what I'm finding so beneficial working with my parent company, Lab Bible Group.
[00:35:07.560 --> 00:35:11.320] The day that you signed that deal, what was that like?
[00:35:11.320 --> 00:35:16.880] Well, considering I just had a baby like three weeks before, it was crazy.
[00:35:17.120 --> 00:35:22.960] I mean, it was the most mixed bag of emotions because I sold my business 100%.
[00:35:22.960 --> 00:35:24.400] So it wasn't mine anymore.
[00:35:24.400 --> 00:35:25.040] Wow.
[00:35:25.040 --> 00:35:28.560] But I also just had a baby three weeks ago.
[00:35:28.560 --> 00:35:31.600] My second child, Lucas, I just had him.
[00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:34.560] So I was like, so postpartum.
[00:35:34.560 --> 00:35:38.160] Like, I was barely out of the diaper.
[00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:42.880] So, but thankfully, because my parent company, Lab, they're in the UK.
[00:35:42.880 --> 00:35:45.840] So we did it on Zoom and it was kind of great for me.
[00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:47.120] I like wore my leggings.
[00:35:47.120 --> 00:35:48.720] It was so good.
[00:35:49.040 --> 00:35:51.040] But it was just the greatest feeling.
[00:35:51.040 --> 00:35:53.360] I felt so accomplished in that moment.
[00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:59.520] And I was really so proud of myself because, I mean, I did all of the pitching and the meetings and all of that.
[00:35:59.520 --> 00:36:01.920] And that was a skill I was terrified.
[00:36:01.920 --> 00:36:04.160] Like, I was terrified to do that coming up.
[00:36:04.160 --> 00:36:05.920] I was scared to make money.
[00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:06.400] Sorry.
[00:36:06.400 --> 00:36:09.440] I was scared to raise money and bring on investors, if I'm being honest.
[00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:11.920] Like, it's not something I ever did before.
[00:36:12.240 --> 00:36:22.240] And figuring that part out was like expanding my capabilities in a way that was just like throwing yourself in complete discomfort.
[00:36:22.240 --> 00:36:25.120] And yeah, I was just so proud of myself.
[00:36:25.120 --> 00:36:27.040] It was, it was an amazing moment.
[00:36:27.040 --> 00:36:31.280] And it was nice to feel, I mean, it was scary also because you don't know who you're really giving it to.
[00:36:31.280 --> 00:36:35.520] I mean, like, I was really getting to know them for like a year and a half, maybe two years.
[00:36:35.520 --> 00:36:37.360] It took that long, the process?
[00:36:37.680 --> 00:36:39.680] The process was shorter.
[00:36:39.680 --> 00:36:44.800] Maybe the process was a year, but we were courting each other for like six months.
[00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:51.680] And there was also, like, I was, there was also other businesses that I have in before that.
[00:36:51.680 --> 00:36:58.240] Like, I went through, um, it wasn't due diligence yet, but I was sharing data with another business before that.
[00:36:58.240 --> 00:37:00.920] And I got an offer and I rejected it.
[00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:02.760] That happened kind of a couple times.
[00:37:03.240 --> 00:37:04.440] What makes you reject an offer?
[00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:05.320] What's wrong?
[00:37:05.320 --> 00:37:11.000] I felt like they didn't value, and not value in terms of the number.
[00:37:11.160 --> 00:37:19.080] Didn't think they saw us beyond beyond the number on that bottom line.
[00:37:19.080 --> 00:37:24.040] I felt like they didn't understand what we brought to the table.
[00:37:24.040 --> 00:37:29.320] I think they were just trying to like get their business like goals by like checking a box.
[00:37:29.800 --> 00:37:31.160] They didn't understand the magic.
[00:37:32.120 --> 00:37:32.840] Thank you.
[00:37:32.840 --> 00:37:34.600] They didn't understand the magic.
[00:37:34.600 --> 00:37:39.320] And I don't believe they saw us as magic.
[00:37:39.320 --> 00:37:43.160] And I found a partner who did.
[00:37:43.160 --> 00:37:51.240] And I think the reason why that matters is because if it's a talent-led business, so like, like I said, you're not leaving.
[00:37:51.240 --> 00:38:06.600] If it's like a product or a technology that you're selling and they don't need you, by all means, I mean, if you really care about that product, give it to the sell it to somebody who you think will give it the most care and take it to the next level.
[00:38:06.600 --> 00:38:08.840] And if you have stock, that's really important.
[00:38:09.160 --> 00:38:15.160] But if you are staying on, your partner matters because that is then your boss.
[00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:17.480] And that is who you're going to work for.
[00:38:17.480 --> 00:38:22.440] And if you never had a boss like me before, I took that very seriously.
[00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:25.320] So I was like, it's a people transaction.
[00:38:25.320 --> 00:38:26.760] It's people to people.
[00:38:26.760 --> 00:38:28.040] Again, like I said, it's a marriage.
[00:38:28.680 --> 00:38:30.360] It's a business marriage.
[00:38:30.360 --> 00:38:41.320] And so I needed to feel really confident that the CEO was somebody that I respected, which I really, really do, and someone that I feel like understands the vision and has the same vision.
[00:38:41.320 --> 00:38:42.520] And we did.
[00:38:42.840 --> 00:38:45.600] And it was like great.
[00:38:45.600 --> 00:38:48.240] I had to be so patient for that to come, though.
[00:38:44.200 --> 00:38:50.160] Like 14, it's 14 years now.
[00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:58.400] Which is also really helpful to hear when you see Rode being acquired after three years, that most businesses, that's not the trajectory, and that's not your story for most people.
[00:38:58.400 --> 00:39:00.640] For Rode, it's a different business.
[00:39:00.640 --> 00:39:01.920] It's a completely different business.
[00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:04.480] I think she had partners that were running the business.
[00:39:04.480 --> 00:39:05.360] She was the face of it.
[00:39:05.360 --> 00:39:06.800] She was the creative force behind it.
[00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:09.280] She was like the marketing arm of it.
[00:39:09.280 --> 00:39:12.320] It was a business that I thought was created to sell.
[00:39:12.320 --> 00:39:21.600] And actually, and I was talking to somebody about this yesterday, is that it's pretty funny, like women actually are not, women founders think about their business as babies.
[00:39:21.600 --> 00:39:24.720] And a lot of male founders start businesses to sell them.
[00:39:24.720 --> 00:39:25.520] Yes.
[00:39:25.520 --> 00:39:28.720] And I'm actually love seeing Rode exit like that.
[00:39:28.720 --> 00:39:30.000] I thought that was great.
[00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:33.200] Like take, like sell it at the peak.
[00:39:33.200 --> 00:39:36.880] And that was another thing is like you should wait for your moment.
[00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:38.000] Think about that peak.
[00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:41.280] It's like it's a timing game and a partner game.
[00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:48.400] So it's like, is this the best deal that I could believe that I could do in the next five years?
[00:39:48.720 --> 00:39:49.680] Probably.
[00:39:49.680 --> 00:39:52.320] Is it always going to be the best deal ever?
[00:39:52.320 --> 00:39:52.960] Probably not.
[00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:55.600] There's always a sacrifice on both ends.
[00:39:55.600 --> 00:40:00.880] But you want both parties to be a little annoyed, but also very happy.
[00:40:01.200 --> 00:40:03.120] And I think that's what makes the best deal.
[00:40:03.120 --> 00:40:06.160] But I am, I love that Road exited like that.
[00:40:06.160 --> 00:40:09.040] And I think, again, like, she built it to scale it.
[00:40:09.040 --> 00:40:11.360] It's a completely different business, right?
[00:40:11.360 --> 00:40:14.080] Because now Elf is going to take it into another dimension.
[00:40:14.080 --> 00:40:15.040] It's amazing.
[00:40:15.040 --> 00:40:15.520] Yeah.
[00:40:16.080 --> 00:40:22.640] You don't have to answer this question, but I'm always really curious about like once you sell your company, what do you do with the money?
[00:40:22.640 --> 00:40:24.880] Like, do you have like a wealth manager, someone?
[00:40:24.880 --> 00:40:29.000] I bet you get all of the emails from all of the people trying to like be your advisors.
[00:40:28.800 --> 00:40:29.080] Yeah.
[00:40:28.960 --> 00:40:29.640] Yeah.
[00:40:29.880 --> 00:40:30.760] But like what happens?
[00:40:29.040 --> 00:40:31.560] No, I'm happy to share.
[00:40:29.520 --> 00:40:29.680] Yeah.
[00:40:32.040 --> 00:40:39.000] I think talking about like women and finance and money is shouldn't be hush-hush.
[00:40:39.080 --> 00:40:39.640] It's not a hobby.
[00:40:39.640 --> 00:40:40.920] We're like trying to make money here.
[00:40:40.920 --> 00:40:42.520] This is why people are building businesses.
[00:40:42.520 --> 00:40:50.440] So one of the best advice I got from my dad was that he's like, you should treat your finances like it is a business.
[00:40:50.440 --> 00:40:51.800] You need to think about them.
[00:40:51.800 --> 00:40:53.240] And I'm still learning how to do that.
[00:40:53.240 --> 00:40:54.360] That is not easy.
[00:40:54.360 --> 00:40:57.080] Like I wish they taught us that in school.
[00:40:57.080 --> 00:40:58.040] It's not easy.
[00:40:58.040 --> 00:41:04.120] Sometimes I also sit in my like financial advisor meeting and I'm like, just can you tell me what the return was?
[00:41:04.440 --> 00:41:05.240] Is there a return?
[00:41:05.240 --> 00:41:06.600] Like, should I be worried?
[00:41:06.600 --> 00:41:14.040] But no, you have to learn what all of it means and where it's invested and like follow along because that is a skill that is so valuable.
[00:41:14.040 --> 00:41:15.320] But what did I do?
[00:41:15.320 --> 00:41:21.080] First thing, I invested in my children's 529 and I set up my kids for 529.
[00:41:21.400 --> 00:41:24.360] It's a college fund that has tax benefits of some sort.
[00:41:24.360 --> 00:41:25.160] Yes.
[00:41:25.160 --> 00:41:27.320] And then I invested it.
[00:41:27.320 --> 00:41:31.880] I bought myself like a nice piece of jewelry and I invested it.
[00:41:31.880 --> 00:41:32.520] I was it.
[00:41:32.600 --> 00:41:38.600] I already moved out to like the suburbs at that point because I was like, I need a house for my child.
[00:41:38.600 --> 00:41:40.440] Like I don't have enough space.
[00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:46.520] And yeah, so I was just kind of, yeah, I really just, I wanted to invest it and then I just kept building my company.
[00:41:46.520 --> 00:41:48.360] Like that was, that was it.
[00:41:48.360 --> 00:41:52.680] But I think go buy whatever you want.
[00:41:52.680 --> 00:41:55.080] That is your money to celebrate.
[00:41:55.400 --> 00:41:57.400] Do whatever you want with it.
[00:41:57.400 --> 00:41:59.880] Don't spend it all in one day.
[00:42:00.200 --> 00:42:04.440] Invest as much as you can, but have some, like, enjoy it.
[00:42:04.920 --> 00:42:05.240] Celebrate.
[00:42:05.480 --> 00:42:06.200] Enjoy it.
[00:42:06.200 --> 00:42:13.080] But I think a lot when it comes to money is really understanding your values and like what is important to you.
[00:42:13.080 --> 00:42:20.160] For me, my number one value is like family security and stability.
[00:42:20.160 --> 00:42:22.640] My parents are, I'm a first-generation American.
[00:42:22.640 --> 00:42:28.880] My parents came here with absolutely zero, and I was born within nine months of that.
[00:42:28.880 --> 00:42:29.440] Wow.
[00:42:29.440 --> 00:42:35.680] So, you know, I watched them, you know, truly live the American dream.
[00:42:35.680 --> 00:42:37.680] My mom became a doctor here.
[00:42:37.680 --> 00:42:40.560] She like had to take, she had to go back to college.
[00:42:40.560 --> 00:42:42.960] And this is all go to medical school.
[00:42:42.960 --> 00:42:51.520] I moved like 10 times, maybe seven times before I was 10 because we were going from like school, then she was going to medical school.
[00:42:51.520 --> 00:42:55.040] And then we were building to what we could afford.
[00:42:55.360 --> 00:43:10.400] And so stability, like not that I didn't feel unstable, but when I did land in my like place that I grew up in, like at 10, where I met all my friends that I'm still friends with now, my co-founders, my husband's also from the same high school.
[00:43:10.400 --> 00:43:16.160] But I just believe in that like stability and like also independence.
[00:43:16.160 --> 00:43:18.160] Like that's why my mom was a doctor.
[00:43:18.160 --> 00:43:21.120] I was like, and that's you're basically running a business.
[00:43:21.120 --> 00:43:22.160] It's the same thing.
[00:43:22.160 --> 00:43:24.720] So that's why I kind of just went straight into investment.
[00:43:24.720 --> 00:43:27.040] But look, I like to buy nice things too.
[00:43:27.040 --> 00:43:28.080] What an incredible story.
[00:43:28.080 --> 00:43:30.720] And what an amazing thing to then be able to create for your family.
[00:43:30.720 --> 00:43:33.040] Like that must give you so much satisfaction.
[00:43:33.040 --> 00:43:34.640] You saying it makes me want to cry.
[00:43:34.640 --> 00:43:35.600] So yeah, it is.
[00:43:35.600 --> 00:43:37.840] It is really nice and it's really rewarding.
[00:43:37.840 --> 00:43:44.880] And I sometimes think about it and I'm like, I am so, I'm, I was destined also to have a daughter.
[00:43:44.880 --> 00:43:48.480] I just like knew I was going to have a daughter, and I was like, I need to show her.
[00:43:48.480 --> 00:43:49.440] Are you going to cry too?
[00:43:49.440 --> 00:43:50.240] Yes.
[00:43:51.200 --> 00:43:54.640] I was going to show her that, you know, like working hard.
[00:43:54.800 --> 00:43:55.840] My God.
[00:43:56.160 --> 00:43:59.200] Working hard like gets you what you want.
[00:43:59.200 --> 00:44:01.640] You know, you can get anything you want.
[00:44:02.200 --> 00:44:03.000] I love that.
[00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:03.480] There you go.
[00:44:03.480 --> 00:44:04.440] He's a.
[00:44:04.440 --> 00:44:05.640] Thank you.
[00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:06.120] Oh, my God.
[00:44:06.280 --> 00:44:08.520] Ma, like, postpartum does never end.
[00:44:08.520 --> 00:44:09.160] Yeah, no, I know.
[00:44:09.160 --> 00:44:10.680] It's like the rest of your life, I think.
[00:44:10.680 --> 00:44:11.720] Oh, God.
[00:44:12.280 --> 00:44:14.760] The last thing I want to ask you is for a resource recommendation.
[00:44:14.760 --> 00:44:21.080] And just something that other people who are out there building, they're trying to achieve the kind of things that you have achieved.
[00:44:21.080 --> 00:44:25.160] Like, what's something, a book, a resource, something they can go and check out?
[00:44:25.720 --> 00:44:37.400] Mine is kind of maybe a little bit obvious, but I just want to, and I learned this early on, that many businesses use Google Docs, Google Drive, Google Sheets.
[00:44:37.400 --> 00:44:41.880] Like, when I was doing it, I was like, oh my God, I'm just still doing, like, what is everybody using?
[00:44:42.200 --> 00:44:43.800] I need them, like, be something more sophisticated.
[00:44:45.160 --> 00:44:48.280] No, I just want to use it.
[00:44:48.280 --> 00:44:49.880] It's free for the most part.
[00:44:49.880 --> 00:44:51.880] It is so inexpensive.
[00:44:51.880 --> 00:44:56.760] Draw, like, and Google's not even a partner of mine, but if they want to be.
[00:44:56.760 --> 00:44:57.640] I mean, same.
[00:44:57.640 --> 00:44:58.680] Say Google.
[00:44:59.000 --> 00:45:02.360] Built the majority of the business on Google Drive.
[00:45:02.360 --> 00:45:06.040] We also built our accounting on QuickBooks.
[00:45:06.440 --> 00:45:18.680] That's a great tool until you were much, when your revenue hits a certain target, maybe it's like 20 million, 15 million, but you can be on QuickBooks until you're like 10 million at least.
[00:45:18.680 --> 00:45:22.280] And yeah, I love, I love Google Sheets.
[00:45:22.280 --> 00:45:23.160] I love the shared thing.
[00:45:23.160 --> 00:45:26.120] And now my team is using Canva.
[00:45:26.120 --> 00:45:28.120] And you would think, like, I love it.
[00:45:28.120 --> 00:45:32.440] And the reason why I love it is because they're investing in the AI of it all.
[00:45:32.760 --> 00:45:38.440] And, you know, I was on Google Sheets, but Canva produces a hundred sheets now, too.
[00:45:38.440 --> 00:45:39.240] Well, that's what I'm saying.
[00:45:39.240 --> 00:45:40.440] Canva is all shared.
[00:45:40.440 --> 00:45:45.040] And that's like anything really collaborative is super helpful for building a business.
[00:45:44.840 --> 00:45:49.760] And I'm sure everybody knows this, but I just want to also say that, like, you're not alone in this.
[00:45:50.080 --> 00:45:54.480] And you don't need to have it all so figured out all the time.
[00:45:54.800 --> 00:45:58.240] Most people are faking it till they make it, like, whatever it is.
[00:45:58.240 --> 00:45:59.920] But I don't even think it's faking it.
[00:45:59.920 --> 00:46:01.440] It's just figuring it out.
[00:46:01.440 --> 00:46:02.000] Yeah.
[00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:08.960] We're all just building the plane as we fly it, as everybody in my company says when we're talking about the things.
[00:46:08.960 --> 00:46:13.760] It's just the, it's just the nature of building a company.
[00:46:13.760 --> 00:46:15.920] Like, that's what it means to be a founder.
[00:46:15.920 --> 00:46:17.600] It's scrappy.
[00:46:17.920 --> 00:46:19.600] It's tough.
[00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:23.360] And you're always going to be the one fixing problems.
[00:46:23.360 --> 00:46:27.840] Very, this is another thing that I learned and I learned to accept and now I love it.
[00:46:27.840 --> 00:46:31.120] Is that I was like, why am I always the one like us to like deal with the problems?
[00:46:31.120 --> 00:46:33.200] Why can't I celebrate the success?
[00:46:33.520 --> 00:46:36.320] Well, you, because that's your job.
[00:46:36.320 --> 00:46:40.080] Your job is to come and come in and be like, yeah, that's great.
[00:46:40.080 --> 00:46:40.640] We're great.
[00:46:40.640 --> 00:46:41.280] We succeeded.
[00:46:41.280 --> 00:46:42.480] Good job, everybody.
[00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:44.240] Now I need to deal with this fire.
[00:46:44.240 --> 00:46:45.680] And it's always the fires.
[00:46:45.680 --> 00:46:48.000] And now I see it as like a puzzle.
[00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:48.880] It's fun for me.
[00:46:48.880 --> 00:46:54.560] I was literally saying to Hannah, someone on my team who's asked, what's your favorite part of the job?
[00:46:54.560 --> 00:46:56.080] And I was like, she was like, is it the podcasting?
[00:46:56.160 --> 00:46:59.600] I was like, no, I love when like we have something to deal with.
[00:46:59.600 --> 00:47:02.880] And I was like, okay, I'm going to roll up my sleeves and figure it out with you guys.
[00:47:02.880 --> 00:47:03.440] That's amazing.
[00:47:03.440 --> 00:47:04.640] That's my, that's fun.
[00:47:04.640 --> 00:47:06.480] But I just wanted to say, you're not alone.
[00:47:06.480 --> 00:47:07.040] Amazing.
[00:47:07.040 --> 00:47:09.040] This is such an incredible story.
[00:47:09.040 --> 00:47:12.240] Thank you so much, Eileen, for coming on the show and sharing this with us.
[00:47:12.240 --> 00:47:12.800] Thank you.
[00:47:12.800 --> 00:47:14.160] Yeah, congratulations on what you built.
[00:47:14.560 --> 00:47:14.960] Thank you.
[00:47:14.960 --> 00:47:16.080] Sorry for crying.
[00:47:16.160 --> 00:47:17.440] No, crying is fine.
[00:47:17.440 --> 00:47:18.720] I cried too.
[00:47:19.040 --> 00:47:26.800] I just wanted to jump in and end the show with a quick thank you and shout out to all of our paid Business Bestie subscribers.
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