The Michael Shermer Show

Was Benjamin Franklin America’s First Scientist?

September 30, 2025

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  • Benjamin Franklin's legacy is characterized by his versatility across numerous careers and his modern, rational approach to science and politics, exemplified by his editing of the Declaration of Independence to favor "self-evident" truths over religious assertions. 
  • Franklin's financial success allowed him to retire early and dedicate his later life to science, civic duties, and writing, demonstrating a model where business success funds intellectual pursuits. 
  • Franklin's views evolved significantly over his lifetime, moving from skepticism and initial slave-holding to becoming an outspoken abolitionist and advocating for a commercial society with central banking, contrasting with Jefferson's more agrarian focus. 
  • Benjamin Franklin strongly favored private welfare and charity over state-run social programs, advocating for 'cheaper and better government' and emphasizing economy, encapsulated by the maxim 'a penny saved is a penny earned.' 
  • Franklin's civic-minded contributions, such as founding the first hospital, public library, and the Junto, were extensive but are not explicitly covered in his famous list of 13 virtues. 
  • Franklin held a cosmopolitan view favoring liberal immigration based on skill and trade, advocating for commercial agreements over entangling alliances in foreign policy, though he expressed personal regrets regarding the bitterness caused by the American Revolution, especially with his Loyalist son. 

Segments

Franklin’s Ancestry and Career Parallels
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(00:01:49)
  • Key Takeaway: Dr. Mark Skousen, an eighth-generation descendant of Benjamin Franklin, shares career parallels with his ancestor, including roles as a publisher, author, and financial advisor.
  • Summary: Dr. Mark Skousen is introduced as an eighth-generation direct descendant of Benjamin Franklin and the author of a new book about him. Skousen notes that his own career path mirrors Franklin’s in areas like publishing, advising, and teaching. They reference Franklin’s completed autobiography, which Skousen helped compile, covering the years 1757 to 1790.
Franklin’s Quotability and Habits
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(00:03:15)
  • Key Takeaway: Franklin’s aphorisms, such as ‘Investing in knowledge pays the highest interest,’ reflect his practical wisdom, and he practiced ‘air baths’ for health.
  • Summary: Skousen shares several memorable quotes from Franklin, including ‘Three can keep a secret if two are dead’ and ‘Investing in knowledge pays the highest interest.’ Franklin also practiced ‘air baths’ by lying naked in open windows, a practice that led to a famous disagreement with John Adams over sleeping arrangements.
Franklin’s Marital Status Debate
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(00:07:34)
  • Key Takeaway: The estrangement between Benjamin Franklin and his wife, Deborah, is attributed by Skousen to Deborah’s extreme aversion to transatlantic travel, not Franklin abandoning her.
  • Summary: Skousen argues against the historical claim that Franklin abandoned his wife, Deborah, suggesting instead that her refusal to travel across the Atlantic eight times led to their estrangement. Franklin made eight round trips across the Atlantic, which took five to six weeks each way, and he did not return in time to see Deborah before she died.
Franklin’s Scientific Skepticism
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(00:09:48)
  • Key Takeaway: Franklin acted as a scientific debunker, notably disproving Dr. Mesmer’s theories on mesmerism through controlled experiments involving placebo groups.
  • Summary: Franklin was assigned by the King to investigate Dr. Mesmer’s claims of healing through mesmerization and viciously debunked the practice by testing theories with evidence. Franklin employed controlled experiments, including placebo groups, to test the effects of mesmerization on hysterical patients, demonstrating an innovative scientific approach for the 18th century.
Franklin’s Scientific Contributions and Versatility
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(00:12:05)
  • Key Takeaway: Franklin developed a uniform theory of electricity through his kite experiment, solidifying his status as a top-100 scientist, and he mastered an estimated 22 different careers.
  • Summary: Franklin risked his life with his son during the kite experiment to prove that lightning was electricity, leading to a uniform theory of electricity. Skousen argues Franklin exceeds other geniuses like Edison or Musk in versatility, having mastered 22 careers, including science, publishing, and public service.
Franklin vs. Jefferson on Economics
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(00:16:15)
  • Key Takeaway: Franklin favored commercial society, speculation, and paper money, contrasting with Jefferson’s preference for agriculture and strict adherence to gold and silver hard money.
  • Summary: Franklin supported money-making and paper currency, partly because Britain restricted hard currency minting in the colonies, leading Franklin to print money himself. Jefferson, conversely, idealized agriculture and rejected large cities, preferring a small-town atmosphere, and was staunchly opposed to paper money.
Franklin’s Modernity and Future Outlook
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(00:17:57)
  • Key Takeaway: Franklin’s attitudes toward inflation, commercial society, and liberation movements make him the most modern of the Founding Fathers, and he expressed a desire to live centuries later.
  • Summary: Franklin is considered the most modern founder due to his views on slavery, women’s liberation, and commercialism, and he reportedly wished to live 200 to 300 years in the future to see modern society. He would likely embrace modern technology like the internet and streaming services, and his economic views align with industrialization over agrarianism.
Franklin’s Influence on Adam Smith
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(00:22:05)
  • Key Takeaway: Franklin influenced Adam Smith’s ‘The Wealth of Nations’ (1776), which predicted America’s future greatness and advocated for American independence, while Smith influenced Franklin toward free trade.
  • Summary: Franklin’s belief in American exceptionalism influenced Adam Smith’s economic declaration of independence published the same year as Jefferson’s political one. Smith predicted America would become one of the world’s greatest nations and advocated for free trade, leading Franklin to state that ’no nation was ever ruined by trade.’
Franklin’s Views on Currency and Inflation
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(00:24:11)
  • Key Takeaway: Franklin initially supported moderate inflation to stimulate commerce but later warned against runaway inflation, citing the Continental currency’s collapse during the Revolution.
  • Summary: Franklin supported printing money when the British restricted hard currency minting, but he recognized the danger of excessive inflation, which ruined the Continental currency. He humorously noted that currency deflation would force tax evaders to pay their war debts, showing a pragmatic view on fiscal policy.
Franklin’s Political Experience and Optimism
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(00:27:15)
  • Key Takeaway: Franklin, though too old for the presidency, had political experience as Governor of Pennsylvania and maintained an optimistic outlook on life despite chronic ailments.
  • Summary: Franklin was a generation older than Washington and Jefferson, having served as Governor of Pennsylvania and running for the legislature. Despite suffering from gout and kidney stones late in life, he expressed gratitude for his life and looked forward to the science of the afterlife.
Franklin’s Epitaph and Religious Evolution
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(00:28:41)
  • Key Takeaway: Franklin’s proposed epitaph frames life as a book awaiting a ’new and more perfect edition,’ reflecting his evolution from Deism to a belief in Providence and good works.
  • Summary: Franklin’s epitaph compares his body to an old book whose contents will reappear in a corrected edition by the Author, suggesting a belief in an afterlife. His religious views shifted from Deism to an active theism, evidenced by his Constitutional Convention speech stating, ‘God governs in the affairs of men,’ emphasizing good works over mere sermonizing.
Franklin’s Role in the Constitution
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(00:34:07)
  • Key Takeaway: Franklin’s crucial edit to the Declaration of Independence, changing ‘sacred and undeniable’ to ‘self-evident,’ grounded the document in rationality rather than religious assertion.
  • Summary: Franklin’s insertion of ‘self-evident’ drew from the scientific empiricism of Hume, shifting the Declaration’s foundation from religious assertion to rationality. He was instrumental in the Constitution’s creation, which he believed was nearly perfect, and he strongly advocated for the Bill of Rights to protect minority rights.
Franklin’s Foreign Policy and Commerce
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(00:54:23)
  • Key Takeaway: Franklin advocated for a foreign policy of ‘commerce with all and war with none,’ contrasting sharply with modern protectionism and military engagements.
  • Summary: Franklin’s ideal system for America was commerce with all nations and war with none, echoing George Washington’s advice to avoid foreign entanglements. This contrasts with current protectionist trade wars and ongoing conflicts, which contradict his laissez-faire economic and diplomatic stance. Franklin was beloved by the French, whose crucial military and naval support secured American victory at Yorktown.
Franklin’s Evolving Views on Race
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(00:58:47)
  • Key Takeaway: Franklin evolved from running slave advertisements to becoming an abolitionist president of the Philadelphia Society to Abolish Slavery after witnessing the intelligence of Black students.
  • Summary: Franklin initially owned servants/slaves but released some after finding hired labor more productive, and his views shifted after observing Black students at the Negro School. By the end of his life, he was an abolitionist who introduced legislation to abolish slavery, contrasting with contemporaries like Jefferson and Washington who maintained slaveholding status.
Franklin’s Personal Virtues and Morals
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(01:10:42)
  • Key Takeaway: Franklin’s 13 virtues are notably self-centered, focusing on self-improvement (like Temperance and Order) rather than outward charity, despite his criticism of self-focused religion.
  • Summary: Franklin’s list of virtues, which includes Order, Frugality, and Industry, lacks explicit focus on charity or helping others, which is ironic given his critique of self-focused religious practice. The virtue of Chastity included advice to use sex only for health or offspring, never to the ‘injury of another’s peace or reputation,’ and he was advised to add Humility due to his perceived vanity.
Franklin’s Virtues and Civics
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(01:13:12)
  • Key Takeaway: Franklin’s virtue regarding sexual conduct advises restraint ‘but for health or offspring,’ which the speakers note reads poorly today.
  • Summary: Franklin’s moral framework included chastity, advising against venery except for health or offspring, never to the detriment of peace or reputation. The discussion contrasted these personal virtues with Franklin’s extensive civic involvement, such as starting the first hospital and public library. These civic achievements were noted as being outside the scope of his famous 13 virtues.
Welfare and Government Spending
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(01:15:50)
  • Key Takeaway: Franklin preferred private welfare over state-run social programs, believing wealth accumulation was the basis for a welfare system.
  • Summary: Franklin would likely oppose high levels of GDP allocated to social programs, favoring cheap and better government, similar to wanting lower prices and better products in business. He defended wealthy people, stating wealth forms the basis of the welfare system, and would likely oppose making it illegal to be a billionaire. He might support voluntary pledges like the Giving Pledge, as it relies on self-enforcement rather than government mandate.
Buffett, Munger, and Rationality
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(01:18:03)
  • Key Takeaway: Charlie Munger viewed rationality as a moral duty, while Warren Buffett prioritized Berkshire Hathaway’s continuous improvement, both maintaining low profiles despite immense wealth.
  • Summary: The discussion referenced the low-profile habits of Warren Buffett, contrasting them with ostentatious displays of wealth. Munger stated that becoming as rational as possible is one’s main duty, making Berkshire Hathaway a ’temple of rationality.’ Berkshire avoids paying dividends to prevent double taxation, instead reinvesting earnings to increase net worth and stock value.
Franklin on Currency and Debt
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(01:20:42)
  • Key Takeaway: Franklin likely held a conservative financial approach, favoring diversification and economy, and would caution against excessive inflation seen in boom-bust cycles.
  • Summary: Franklin, being open to new technologies, might be interested in Bitcoin but would likely be wary due to historical parallels like the Mississippi bubble. He took a conservative approach during a UK banking crisis by being well-diversified in the best banks. Franklin emphasized economy, stating ’no revenue is sufficient without economy,’ and advocated for paying off debts rather than simply spending new revenue.
Bureaucracy and Private Enterprise
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(01:24:26)
  • Key Takeaway: Franklin viewed government bureaucracies as nearly impossible to eliminate and strongly advised his descendants to engage in private enterprise over government jobs.
  • Summary: Once established, government agencies are almost impossible to kill, a concept illustrated by the difficulty in cutting overall debt despite eliminating some minor programs. Franklin considered arranging his son William’s government governorship a major mistake, especially since William remained a Loyalist during the Revolution. He explicitly warned his grandson Benny against government jobs, stressing private enterprise as the key to success.
Immigration and Foreign Policy
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(01:27:23)
  • Key Takeaway: Franklin supported a liberal immigration policy based on skill and trade, favoring a melting pot approach, while advocating for non-entangling alliances in foreign policy.
  • Summary: Franklin favored virtually open borders, provided immigrants possessed valuable skills or trades, aligning with the melting pot concept and opposing discrimination against groups. Regarding foreign policy, he would likely support George Washington’s stance to avoid entangling alliances, preferring commercial agreements (‘commerce with all and war with none’). He viewed exporting constitutional principles as positive but cautioned against war being the first resort.
Franklin’s Conservatism and Legacy
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(01:30:31)
  • Key Takeaway: Franklin’s views—which included complaints about excessive taverns and luxury spending—do not align with modern Christian nationalism but emphasize civil debate and unifying principles.
  • Summary: Franklin would likely not fit into modern conservative nationalism due to his cosmopolitanism and open views on immigration. He expressed conservative elements by complaining about too many taverns in Philadelphia and chastising his daughter for demanding expensive French clothing. He promoted civil debate by refusing to speak ill of anyone publicly and carefully listening to opposing viewpoints, aiming to unify the nation.