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[00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:02.720] So, when I ask, what is Odoo?
[00:00:02.720 --> 00:00:04.240] What comes to mind?
[00:00:04.240 --> 00:00:06.880] Well, Odoo is a bit of everything.
[00:00:06.880 --> 00:00:14.000] Odo is a suite of business management software that some people say is like fertilizer because of the way it promotes growth.
[00:00:14.000 --> 00:00:22.480] But you know, some people also say Odoo is like a magic bean stock because it grows with your company and is also magically affordable.
[00:00:22.480 --> 00:00:29.200] But then again, you could look at Odoo in terms of how its individual software programs are a lot like building blocks.
[00:00:29.200 --> 00:00:31.840] I mean, whatever your business needs.
[00:00:31.840 --> 00:00:34.720] Manufacturing, accounting, HR programs.
[00:00:34.720 --> 00:00:39.040] You can build a custom software suite that's perfect for your company.
[00:00:39.040 --> 00:00:40.800] So what is Odoo?
[00:00:40.800 --> 00:00:43.840] Well, I guess Odoo is a bit of everything.
[00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:49.440] Odo is a fertilizer, magic beanstock building blocks for business.
[00:00:49.440 --> 00:00:51.040] Yeah, that's it.
[00:00:51.040 --> 00:00:54.800] Which means that Odoo is exactly what every business needs.
[00:00:54.800 --> 00:00:57.760] Learn more and sign up now at odo.com.
[00:00:57.760 --> 00:01:00.320] That's odoo.com.
[00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:02.240] Every business has an ambition.
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[00:01:27.600 --> 00:01:30.320] Loan subject to approval in available locations.
[00:01:30.320 --> 00:01:31.840] Hello, everybody.
[00:01:31.840 --> 00:01:32.560] How are we doing?
[00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:33.680] Hang on one second here.
[00:01:33.680 --> 00:01:34.400] All right.
[00:01:34.400 --> 00:01:35.920] So time is tight.
[00:01:35.920 --> 00:01:37.280] We have exactly 20 minutes.
[00:01:37.280 --> 00:01:41.120] So Deborah Soe and I are going to give it to you as quickly as we can.
[00:01:41.120 --> 00:01:42.400] My guest today is Dr.
[00:01:42.400 --> 00:01:43.360] Deborah So.
[00:01:43.360 --> 00:01:48.240] She's a neuroscientist who specializes in human sexuality.
[00:01:48.240 --> 00:01:54.240] As a journalist, she writes about sex, technology, health, and the politicization of science.
[00:01:54.240 --> 00:01:55.840] You may have heard of that.
[00:01:56.480 --> 00:02:04.520] Her writing has appeared in the Wall Street Journal, the Los Angeles Times, the Globe and Mail, and Harper's Magazine, among many others.
[00:02:04.840 --> 00:02:12.120] She's appeared on the Joe Rogan Experience, Real Time with Bill Maher, The Daily Wire's What is a Woman.
[00:02:12.120 --> 00:02:13.560] Remember that film, What is a Woman?
[00:02:13.560 --> 00:02:16.200] She's the only one who got the answer correct.
[00:02:18.360 --> 00:02:19.800] She's also been on Dr.
[00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:22.920] Phil, The Megan Kelly Show, The Michael Shermer Show.
[00:02:22.920 --> 00:02:23.880] Oh my god, that's me.
[00:02:23.880 --> 00:02:25.080] Okay, thank you.
[00:02:25.080 --> 00:02:34.200] And her first book was The End of Gender, of which she has spoken about at the Oxford Union, and has been translated into six languages.
[00:02:34.200 --> 00:02:35.720] Deborah, nice to see you.
[00:02:36.040 --> 00:02:36.600] Hi, Michael.
[00:02:36.680 --> 00:02:37.960] Thank you for talking to you.
[00:02:38.280 --> 00:02:45.240] Hey, could you, before we get into our topics, could you just give us a brief overview of your thoughts about sex and gender since that book was out?
[00:02:45.240 --> 00:02:47.320] Because a lot's happened in that space.
[00:02:47.640 --> 00:02:51.240] Yeah, well, I'm very happy to see that my work has been vindicated.
[00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:56.120] And all of those years, it's been basically a decade of people calling me transphobic and horrible.
[00:02:56.200 --> 00:02:59.960] Turns out I was right all along, so that was a relief.
[00:02:59.960 --> 00:03:18.040] But I mean, I really hope to see the rest of this ideology finally die the death it deserves because it's done a huge amount of damage to not just children who've been basically brainwashed, I think, and manipulated in some cases into making forever permanent changes to their bodies.
[00:03:18.440 --> 00:03:32.520] Also, the effects it's had on families, on women's sports, women's spaces, women not feeling safe, and I would say everyday transgender people who just want to live their lives, who want to transition and get on with things and don't want to force people to do anything they don't want to do.
[00:03:32.520 --> 00:03:36.440] So, yeah, I'm very, very glad to see that this is slowly being overturned.
[00:03:36.440 --> 00:03:39.960] Is it your sense that we've turned the tide now this year?
[00:03:39.960 --> 00:03:43.240] It kind of feels like things are moving in the right direction.
[00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:44.520] I do think so.
[00:03:44.520 --> 00:03:53.600] Yeah, I think the people who are clinging to the last remains of gender ideology either do so because they have some form of financial incentive or they are just purely delusional.
[00:03:53.600 --> 00:04:02.640] Honestly, I can't think of any other way because most people, I do believe, feel emboldened to say what they really think now, which is what we've all thought this whole time is that this is ridiculous.
[00:04:02.640 --> 00:04:04.080] There are two sexes.
[00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:14.000] Children do not have the mental or cognitive maturity to make life-altering decisions about their bodies or their fertility, and that men do not belong in women's sports.
[00:04:14.320 --> 00:04:14.880] Yep.
[00:04:14.880 --> 00:04:16.160] All right.
[00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:23.680] Yeah, the polls overwhelmingly show that almost everybody's against that.
[00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:26.720] And so, if enough of us speak out, then it'll disappear.
[00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:29.360] Okay, Deborah and I thought we'd cover three general topics.
[00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:33.040] One, pornography, and not should it be legal or not.
[00:04:33.040 --> 00:04:34.160] We're all libertarians.
[00:04:34.160 --> 00:04:36.080] Adults can do what they want.
[00:04:36.080 --> 00:04:40.320] But what about young teenagers, young boys, especially watching porn?
[00:04:40.320 --> 00:04:41.280] What are the effects?
[00:04:41.280 --> 00:04:42.320] Let's start there, Deborah.
[00:04:42.320 --> 00:04:43.280] What are your thoughts?
[00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:44.000] Sure.
[00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:50.880] So I want to first say I used to write for, I used to be a columnist for a very popular men's magazine that features nude women.
[00:04:50.880 --> 00:04:55.360] Since that time, like you said, you know, I feel pornography use in adults is one thing.
[00:04:55.360 --> 00:04:59.680] I am very critical and concerned about porn exposure in children.
[00:04:59.680 --> 00:05:07.440] We do see the average age nowadays of children being exposed to porn, either intentionally or by accident, is 12.
[00:05:07.440 --> 00:05:12.960] One in seven kids sees porn at the age of 10 or younger, which is very concerning to me.
[00:05:12.960 --> 00:05:28.000] And so I do think that for adults who grew up in a time before internet porn, had their first sexual experience prior to being exposed to online porn, if such a predominantly we see violent sexual preferences are in men more so than women.
[00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:35.400] Not to say it doesn't ever happen in women, but the concern is that is violent porn making men hateful of women or violent toward women.
[00:05:35.400 --> 00:05:43.320] And I would say prior to online porn, if they, again, did not grow up with easy access to this, I would say that's indicative of a man being antisocial.
[00:05:43.320 --> 00:05:48.120] There are probably other factors that have led him to hate women and to have these sexual preferences.
[00:05:48.120 --> 00:05:53.000] So I don't think porn is necessarily the root cause or to blame for that.
[00:05:53.000 --> 00:06:12.200] However, in children, I feel differently because we're seeing now, again, if these kids are watching this prior to ever having their first sexual experience, prior to even having their first orgasm, if their sexual awakening is paired with this stimulus, and online porn is very degrading, very violent as an adult.
[00:06:12.200 --> 00:06:17.160] I don't watch porn myself, but the times I've looked at it for research purposes, I have a hard time watching it myself.
[00:06:17.160 --> 00:06:18.520] Like, it's really disgusting.
[00:06:18.520 --> 00:06:19.720] It's not an exaggeration.
[00:06:19.720 --> 00:06:28.920] And so the fact that these young kids are seeing this, likely being traumatized, I do think has the potential to really affect their sexual development in a negative way.
[00:06:28.920 --> 00:06:38.760] And I do think also for girls, because porn use has predominantly been in men, but because of smartphones and because it's so easily accessed, and in many cases, kids are not looking for this, right?
[00:06:38.760 --> 00:06:39.480] It's accidental.
[00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:42.440] Either they see it on social media or their friends send it to them.
[00:06:42.440 --> 00:06:48.920] Even kids who are homeschooled, if they don't have their own device, someone else in their school or their class might show it to them on their device.
[00:06:48.920 --> 00:06:51.640] So they're being exposed to it, again, increasingly young ages.
[00:06:51.640 --> 00:06:52.600] Girls are seeing it.
[00:06:52.600 --> 00:06:55.160] Girls are intentionally seeking it out.
[00:06:55.160 --> 00:07:00.200] And I do think this has something to do with why we see more young women in Gen Z going.
[00:07:00.200 --> 00:07:11.480] Gen Z is age roughly 13 to 30, going into the sex industry, deciding to sell nudes, deciding to work a sugar baby Say, which is like a new rebranding of escorting.
[00:07:11.480 --> 00:07:13.720] And so I think there are a whole host of other issues.
[00:07:13.720 --> 00:07:20.240] I mean, I can get into the body image, the self-sexualization, like all that risky sex, having sex with multiple partners.
[00:07:14.840 --> 00:07:21.520] Yeah, it goes on and on.
[00:07:22.160 --> 00:07:24.320] Did you say age 10?
[00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:25.520] Or younger?
[00:07:25.520 --> 00:07:26.080] Or younger?
[00:07:26.400 --> 00:07:26.960] What?
[00:07:26.960 --> 00:07:28.880] Okay, I have a nine-year-old son.
[00:07:28.880 --> 00:07:32.320] He's mainly focused on Minecraft and zombies.
[00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:37.040] I guess I should start researching the parental controls and filters.
[00:07:37.040 --> 00:07:38.480] How good are those?
[00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:44.320] I would say that's a good step, but I would advocate for having a conversation.
[00:07:44.320 --> 00:07:50.160] Like you said, open discussion is probably the most effective way of protecting kids, which is so, I know it's so uncomfortable.
[00:07:52.960 --> 00:07:58.400] Unless you lock your child in the basement until they're like 50, you know, they will come across this at some point.
[00:07:58.400 --> 00:08:11.040] And even if, say, they don't come across it until their late teens or early 20s, which is very unlikely, statistically speaking, kids still need to know that they can come to their parents and talk to them about what they see, the fact that porn isn't reflective of real-life sex.
[00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:14.640] And for many of these kids, it is a traumatizing experience for them.
[00:08:14.640 --> 00:08:26.080] And you don't want a child to feel like they have to go through that, make sense of that on their own, especially when it has such huge effects on the way they view the opposite sex, how they think sex is supposed to be.
[00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:30.560] I mean, many of these boys especially think that women want to be beaten up during sex.
[00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:38.880] Like they will do interviews with these boys, they've done studies with teen boys, and they will say, oh, you know, you just slap a woman around or you beat her, they want this.
[00:08:38.880 --> 00:08:40.880] And then there's also this trend of choking.
[00:08:40.880 --> 00:08:43.520] So it's basically extremely common in Gen Z.
[00:08:43.520 --> 00:08:45.920] If you talk to anyone in Gen Z, they will tell you.
[00:08:45.920 --> 00:08:53.440] Even there was one study that was done in college-age women, and one in three women said the last time they had a sexual encounter, they were choked.
[00:08:53.440 --> 00:08:55.280] Now, some women will say they enjoy it.
[00:08:55.280 --> 00:08:57.040] I am very skeptical of this.
[00:08:57.280 --> 00:08:59.440] Generally, it's men choking women.
[00:08:59.440 --> 00:09:01.400] However, you know, sometimes it does happen in reverse.
[00:09:01.480 --> 00:09:13.160] But I do think porn has played a role because it's told these girls that you have to, or they think they have to enjoy this, otherwise, they're not going to be able to find a man, or you know, the men are not going to find them attractive.
[00:09:13.480 --> 00:09:15.400] Okay, last question in this category.
[00:09:15.400 --> 00:09:23.480] Given this libertarian audience, we tend not to like big government intervention into our private lives, but these are minors, these are children.
[00:09:23.480 --> 00:09:29.240] There is a role, is there not, for some government regulation in this space?
[00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:33.880] Yeah, the idea of government regulation makes me very uncomfortable.
[00:09:33.880 --> 00:09:41.240] I've written about this subject a number of times, and my audience has definitely let me know that they're very uncomfortable about it too, the potential for digital IDs as well.
[00:09:41.560 --> 00:09:49.800] I do think it's worth having more of a discussion about the nuances of what can be done because, again, like you said, parental blocking doesn't always work.
[00:09:50.120 --> 00:09:55.480] I do think something like age verification, you know, questionable is it effective or not.
[00:09:55.480 --> 00:10:01.480] But the other thing is that, say, if you want to ban pornography sites, most kids are going to be seeing this on social media.
[00:10:01.480 --> 00:10:11.160] So, I think a better approach would just be for parents to keep their kids off of social media until they're 18, just to, and more broadly, just to let them have a normal childhood so they're not staring at their screen all the time.
[00:10:11.160 --> 00:10:15.000] They're not going to have anxiety and issues with social skills and things like that.
[00:10:15.320 --> 00:10:16.120] Nice.
[00:10:16.120 --> 00:10:22.040] Our second category is prostitution versus sex work.
[00:10:22.040 --> 00:10:29.800] Not should it be legal or illegal or anything like that, but how should we treat it culturally or socially?
[00:10:29.800 --> 00:10:33.560] This is rather politicized as well.
[00:10:33.560 --> 00:10:47.200] The left tending to think of it as a legitimate form of work, labor, income, emancipation of women, do whatever they want with their bodies, call it sex work, it's a career, a job, whatever.
[00:10:47.200 --> 00:10:52.560] And with some of the financial models like OnlyFans, you can make a lot of money.
[00:10:52.560 --> 00:11:01.840] Although there is a Pareto distribution where 1% of the producers make 99% of the money or something along those lines.
[00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:05.520] Versus conservatives who tend to think of it as prostitution.
[00:11:05.520 --> 00:11:09.040] We should not raise it up to some honorable thing.
[00:11:09.040 --> 00:11:13.520] It's bad for women, it's bad for society, and we should stand against it.
[00:11:13.520 --> 00:11:14.960] What are your thoughts?
[00:11:15.280 --> 00:11:17.760] Well, I'll start with just a brief definition.
[00:11:17.760 --> 00:11:19.200] I'm sure everyone knows what sex work is.
[00:11:19.200 --> 00:11:20.160] I just don't like that term.
[00:11:20.160 --> 00:11:25.280] I think it glosses over what it really consists of, which is having sex for money, which is prostitution.
[00:11:25.280 --> 00:11:33.360] And I think, especially, like you said, culturally, there's this trend of really glamorizing it and selling it to young women as a really empowered way to make a living.
[00:11:33.680 --> 00:11:39.200] Ford was built on the belief that the world doesn't get to decide what you're capable of.
[00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:39.920] You do.
[00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:43.760] So ask yourself, can you or can't you?
[00:11:43.760 --> 00:11:48.560] Can you load up a Ford F-150 and build your dream with sweat and steel?
[00:11:48.560 --> 00:11:52.240] Can you chase thrills and conquer curves in a Mustang?
[00:11:52.240 --> 00:11:56.720] Can you take a Bronco to where the map ends and adventure begins?
[00:11:56.720 --> 00:12:00.800] Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right.
[00:12:00.800 --> 00:12:03.120] Ready, set, Ford.
[00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:08.000] If anything, it's being sold as entrepreneurial and the smart way to make money.
[00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:11.840] I disagree with this, and I do think that the sex industry will always exist.
[00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:18.480] I think, again, there's predominantly going to be women willing to sell their bodies and men willing to pay for sex.
[00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:28.880] At the same time, I don't think young women or young men who are thinking of joining the sex industry can make proper, informed decisions for themselves if they don't have all the information available to them.
[00:12:28.880 --> 00:12:31.560] And I do feel the cultural messaging is very much one-sided.
[00:12:31.800 --> 00:12:43.160] So, sex work can consist of, like I said, prostitution, say street prostitution, brothel prostitution, webcamming, stripping, pornography, like selling nudes.
[00:12:43.480 --> 00:12:51.960] I do consider pornography a form of prostitution because people are committing, or not committing, performing sex acts on camera for money.
[00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:59.080] In terms of the financial gain, I mean, it's been sold as a way to make millions of dollars overnight very easily.
[00:12:59.080 --> 00:13:07.240] But the average OnlyFans content creator say makes just over $1,000 a year, which is not very much money.
[00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:13.880] And then also sugar babying, so this is, like I said, a rebranding of escorting, where you have young women who are typically more educated.
[00:13:13.880 --> 00:13:19.480] So they are, usually in university, they're looking for an older, wealthy man to pay for their tuition.
[00:13:20.120 --> 00:13:25.480] And they will make, one study found that they made about $2,000 a month.
[00:13:25.480 --> 00:13:27.880] So this is for having sex for money.
[00:13:27.880 --> 00:13:30.600] $2,000 a month is the average income.
[00:13:30.600 --> 00:13:37.880] And the sugar daddies, so the men who are paying for the sugar babies, made on average $81,000 a month.
[00:13:37.880 --> 00:13:41.480] So these men are very wealthy and they can have their pick of the lot.
[00:13:41.480 --> 00:13:46.440] So really, the numbers are not in favor of these young women who are trying to make money selling sex.
[00:13:46.440 --> 00:13:51.320] And the other thing is the consequences of this are going to be with them for life, especially if they are successful.
[00:13:51.320 --> 00:13:56.280] That's the other side of it, because they go into it wanting to become household names and extremely successful.
[00:13:56.280 --> 00:14:04.760] But the flip side of that is when they do leave the industry, because I'm assuming most women are not going to work in porn, they're not going to be prostituting themselves until they're 65.
[00:14:04.760 --> 00:14:14.400] So when they do leave, if they were successful, people are going to recognize them and they're going to have to live with the consequences of that because men have a dual-mating strategy when it comes to how they approach sex.
[00:14:14.120 --> 00:14:16.960] They have long-term aspirations and short-term aspirations.
[00:14:17.120 --> 00:14:22.400] And if a woman falls into the short-term category, he may want to have sex with her, but he does not respect her.
[00:14:22.400 --> 00:14:26.400] He doesn't value her because this is someone that he just wants to have sex with very quickly and move on.
[00:14:26.400 --> 00:14:29.120] Versus a long-term commitment is someone he's going to invest in.
[00:14:29.120 --> 00:14:30.240] He's going to care for her.
[00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:33.680] He's going to take care of her and any potential offspring.
[00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:42.880] What about these college-age women who are trying to put themselves through college, paying these outrageous tuitions through being a sugar baby?
[00:14:42.880 --> 00:14:45.600] How many are actually really doing that?
[00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:57.440] It's estimated, so not just sugar baby, but just sex, working in the sex industry in general, it's about five to seven percent of university students are selling their bodies essentially for money.
[00:14:57.760 --> 00:14:59.520] I think, I mean, that makes me very sad.
[00:14:59.520 --> 00:15:00.640] I'm not judging these women.
[00:15:00.640 --> 00:15:01.120] I understand.
[00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:02.560] I remember being a PhD student.
[00:15:02.560 --> 00:15:03.600] I was broke.
[00:15:03.600 --> 00:15:04.720] Like, you wouldn't believe it.
[00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:09.040] I remember I would go to the grocery store an hour before it closed to get everything on sale.
[00:15:09.040 --> 00:15:14.160] It's really sad, but if there's anyone out there who's in grad school and struggling, that's the way to do it.
[00:15:14.160 --> 00:15:25.520] And, you know, I would say to young people, I know how you feel, but this is really, you're being sold, I think, a lie that you can make quick money, tons of money, really quickly.
[00:15:25.520 --> 00:15:26.880] I mean, you see the media stories, right?
[00:15:26.880 --> 00:15:33.120] And you see stories of young women whose families disown them because they decided to sell news, they decided to do porn.
[00:15:33.120 --> 00:15:39.200] And then, oh, they became a millionaire, and suddenly their family is happy to take them back and happy to have them pay for their mortgage and things like that.
[00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:42.240] But I really do think playing the long game is better in the end.
[00:15:42.240 --> 00:15:46.080] And also, I mean, the effects on a young woman psychologically.
[00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:55.760] It's not, I don't think it's good for anyone to be having, say, sex with multiple, income, in some cases, 10, 20 people in a given day, or even in a couple months, or even over a lifetime, really.
[00:15:55.760 --> 00:15:58.240] I don't think promiscuity is good for men or women, honestly.
[00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:14.200] And so, to do that, and then to have to live with the psychological ramifications of that, and also I think the reason why many women do this work is not just for the financial reasons, it's because they do have unfortunate histories, either of sexual abuse, of some form of trauma.
[00:16:14.200 --> 00:16:15.800] They grew up without a father in the home.
[00:16:16.120 --> 00:16:25.960] Having a father in the home teaches women that, I mean, I might sound very old-fashioned by saying this, but the research literature bears out, having a father in the home shows women what to expect in men.
[00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:29.000] And I don't, again, blame these women for growing up without fathers.
[00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:32.200] I think it's the father's fault for not being in their daughters' lives.
[00:16:32.200 --> 00:16:36.840] But, you know, they learn very quickly if a father is not around that men don't stick around.
[00:16:36.840 --> 00:16:44.440] So, the way to have a relationship with a man is to offer sex very quickly and to not really expect very much from him in return.
[00:16:44.760 --> 00:16:49.800] Okay, our third category then: should women try to have sex like men?
[00:16:49.800 --> 00:16:52.440] Okay, setting aside prostitution, sex work, whatever.
[00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:54.440] Just normal relationships.
[00:16:54.440 --> 00:17:05.320] Setting aside Lily Phillips, who puts you up 100 men in one 24-hour period, or this is just craziness of the internet system, as it's incentivized.
[00:17:05.320 --> 00:17:07.080] But just dating.
[00:17:07.080 --> 00:17:09.640] You mentioned dual mating strategies.
[00:17:09.640 --> 00:17:10.520] What is that?
[00:17:10.840 --> 00:17:14.040] What are the strategies that women have, that men have?
[00:17:14.360 --> 00:17:16.440] Can women have sex like men?
[00:17:16.440 --> 00:17:21.240] Just, you know, the endless partners and all that, and if not, why not?
[00:17:21.880 --> 00:17:32.040] I think women should approach sex like men if they want to end up heartbroken because men and women on average are different in terms of we have biologically based sex differences in the brain.
[00:17:32.040 --> 00:17:36.520] Not to say that, of course, that there aren't some men who are more like women or that there aren't some women who are more like men.
[00:17:36.520 --> 00:17:38.440] Obviously, there are individual differences.
[00:17:38.440 --> 00:17:41.920] But on average, there are differences between men and women.
[00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:51.600] Also, also with regard to mating psychology, and this makes sense from an evolutionary perspective because for women, sex is much higher in cost in that it comes with the potential for pregnancy.
[00:17:51.920 --> 00:17:59.520] And with pregnancy, it means that you will carry the fetus for nine months, you will give birth, you will breastfeed, you will be the primary caregiver.
[00:17:59.520 --> 00:18:09.360] And so it makes sense for women to be much more selective and want to vet her partners and want to get to know them well and decide if she's going to have sex with a man.
[00:18:09.360 --> 00:18:11.840] Is he going to stick around after in case she does get pregnant?
[00:18:11.840 --> 00:18:24.400] Or even if she doesn't want to have children, just because women are more likely to become attached after sex than men, because women experience a higher release of oxytocin, which is the bonding hormone during sex, and men do not.
[00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:34.000] And in fact, men have a hormone called vasopressin that increases during sex, so it's bonding, but then the minute they climax, this drops down to zero.
[00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:35.840] So the minute they're done, they really are done.
[00:18:35.840 --> 00:18:36.800] They don't feel anything after.
[00:18:36.800 --> 00:18:38.000] It's not the same for women.
[00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:40.320] So men, like I said, they have a dual mating strategy.
[00:18:40.320 --> 00:18:51.760] So if a woman is having lots of casual sex, they tend to slot her into this short-term category because men are really averse to promiscuity and they are really afraid of being cuckolded potentially.
[00:18:51.760 --> 00:18:56.960] So if a woman has many partners, we have DNA testing nowadays so you can determine who the father is.
[00:18:56.960 --> 00:19:09.520] But from an evolutionary and biological perspective, men are going to be very skeptical and say, well, if I know that this woman has had sex with many men very recently, or even just in general, how can I ascertain that this child is actually mine?
[00:19:09.520 --> 00:19:13.360] And a man is not going to want to invest in a child that he cannot be sure is his own.
[00:19:13.360 --> 00:19:15.280] So there's that dual-mating strategy.
[00:19:15.280 --> 00:19:22.880] And also, I would say, you know, with regard to preferences in socio-sexuality, so men do prefer casual sex more than women.
[00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:26.480] You see this in egalitarian cultures and actually the gap between men and women.
[00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:32.360] So men prefer casual sex even more than women in countries with greater gender equality.
[00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:36.040] So I think just because men and women are different doesn't mean that one's better than the other.
[00:19:36.200 --> 00:19:37.800] I've said this my whole career.
[00:19:37.800 --> 00:19:40.520] But yeah, that's my advice.
[00:19:40.840 --> 00:19:41.640] Come on, admit it.
[00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:43.480] We men are pigs.
[00:19:44.440 --> 00:19:45.720] Not all men.
[00:19:46.360 --> 00:19:54.520] If you see, Deborah's written about these massive studies from the dating sites where they have millions of subjects that fill out the form.
[00:19:54.840 --> 00:20:00.840] Like one of which was, I recall, was how many dates would you need to go on with this person before you'd be intimate with them?
[00:20:00.840 --> 00:20:02.920] So for the women, the average was seven.
[00:20:02.920 --> 00:20:05.160] For the men, it was close to one.
[00:20:05.480 --> 00:20:10.600] So for every guy that said two dates, there was some guy that said, why go out on a date?
[00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:14.760] And estimated the number of partners you'd like in a lifetime.
[00:20:14.760 --> 00:20:20.360] I forget what the X was, but it was like four or five times more for men than women and so on.
[00:20:20.360 --> 00:20:23.880] All right, just give us your kind of final thoughts here, Deborah.
[00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:29.320] She's coming to us, by the way, from the 51st State of the Union, the People's Republic of Canada.
[00:20:29.320 --> 00:20:31.640] So thank you for zooming in on us.
[00:20:31.960 --> 00:20:37.400] Give us your final thoughts, recommendations to men and women and how they should behave sexually.
[00:20:37.720 --> 00:20:41.400] Oh, dear Michael, you really do want to get me canceled once and for all.
[00:20:42.680 --> 00:20:54.920] My final thoughts would be: I think, yeah, it's very important that parents feel that they can talk to their kids about this subject and that, you know, I appreciate the audience being here listening to our talk today.
[00:20:54.920 --> 00:21:05.000] I know that this subject can be very uncomfortable and probably controversial, and I'm sure there are things that I've said that not everyone agrees with, but I appreciate that you guys are all very open-minded.
[00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:06.440] And I'd love to hear your feedback.
[00:21:06.440 --> 00:21:13.320] Also, I'm always open to hearing different perspectives, and I will forever be fascinated by this subject, so I love hearing people's stories as well.
[00:21:13.320 --> 00:21:14.720] All right, thank you.
[00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:19.920] Say, let's say thank you for Deborah.
[00:21:14.520 --> 00:21:21.040] Really appreciate that.
[00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:23.920] Her book again is The End of Gender.
[00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:25.520] Really important work.
[00:21:25.520 --> 00:21:26.480] Hot topic.
[00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:28.240] Thank you very much.
[00:21:28.880 --> 00:21:29.840] All right.
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Prompt 2: Key Takeaways

Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.

Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...". 

Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive. 

IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}

Prompt 3: Segments

Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.

For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)  
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion

IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
  "segments": [
    {
      "segment_title": "Topic Discussion", 
      "timestamp": "01:15:30",
      "key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
      "segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
    }
  ]
}

Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.

Prompt 4: Media Mentions

Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:

Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)  
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)

DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names

IMPORTANT: 
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
  "media_mentions": [
    {
      "title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
      "category": "Book",
      "author_artist": "N/A",
      "context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
      "context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
      "timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
    }
  ]
}

If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}

Full Transcript

[00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:02.720] So, when I ask, what is Odoo?
[00:00:02.720 --> 00:00:04.240] What comes to mind?
[00:00:04.240 --> 00:00:06.880] Well, Odoo is a bit of everything.
[00:00:06.880 --> 00:00:14.000] Odo is a suite of business management software that some people say is like fertilizer because of the way it promotes growth.
[00:00:14.000 --> 00:00:22.480] But you know, some people also say Odoo is like a magic bean stock because it grows with your company and is also magically affordable.
[00:00:22.480 --> 00:00:29.200] But then again, you could look at Odoo in terms of how its individual software programs are a lot like building blocks.
[00:00:29.200 --> 00:00:31.840] I mean, whatever your business needs.
[00:00:31.840 --> 00:00:34.720] Manufacturing, accounting, HR programs.
[00:00:34.720 --> 00:00:39.040] You can build a custom software suite that's perfect for your company.
[00:00:39.040 --> 00:00:40.800] So what is Odoo?
[00:00:40.800 --> 00:00:43.840] Well, I guess Odoo is a bit of everything.
[00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:49.440] Odo is a fertilizer, magic beanstock building blocks for business.
[00:00:49.440 --> 00:00:51.040] Yeah, that's it.
[00:00:51.040 --> 00:00:54.800] Which means that Odoo is exactly what every business needs.
[00:00:54.800 --> 00:00:57.760] Learn more and sign up now at odo.com.
[00:00:57.760 --> 00:01:00.320] That's odoo.com.
[00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:02.240] Every business has an ambition.
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[00:01:30.320 --> 00:01:31.840] Hello, everybody.
[00:01:31.840 --> 00:01:32.560] How are we doing?
[00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:33.680] Hang on one second here.
[00:01:33.680 --> 00:01:34.400] All right.
[00:01:34.400 --> 00:01:35.920] So time is tight.
[00:01:35.920 --> 00:01:37.280] We have exactly 20 minutes.
[00:01:37.280 --> 00:01:41.120] So Deborah Soe and I are going to give it to you as quickly as we can.
[00:01:41.120 --> 00:01:42.400] My guest today is Dr.
[00:01:42.400 --> 00:01:43.360] Deborah So.
[00:01:43.360 --> 00:01:48.240] She's a neuroscientist who specializes in human sexuality.
[00:01:48.240 --> 00:01:54.240] As a journalist, she writes about sex, technology, health, and the politicization of science.
[00:01:54.240 --> 00:01:55.840] You may have heard of that.
[00:01:56.480 --> 00:02:04.520] Her writing has appeared in the Wall Street Journal, the Los Angeles Times, the Globe and Mail, and Harper's Magazine, among many others.
[00:02:04.840 --> 00:02:12.120] She's appeared on the Joe Rogan Experience, Real Time with Bill Maher, The Daily Wire's What is a Woman.
[00:02:12.120 --> 00:02:13.560] Remember that film, What is a Woman?
[00:02:13.560 --> 00:02:16.200] She's the only one who got the answer correct.
[00:02:18.360 --> 00:02:19.800] She's also been on Dr.
[00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:22.920] Phil, The Megan Kelly Show, The Michael Shermer Show.
[00:02:22.920 --> 00:02:23.880] Oh my god, that's me.
[00:02:23.880 --> 00:02:25.080] Okay, thank you.
[00:02:25.080 --> 00:02:34.200] And her first book was The End of Gender, of which she has spoken about at the Oxford Union, and has been translated into six languages.
[00:02:34.200 --> 00:02:35.720] Deborah, nice to see you.
[00:02:36.040 --> 00:02:36.600] Hi, Michael.
[00:02:36.680 --> 00:02:37.960] Thank you for talking to you.
[00:02:38.280 --> 00:02:45.240] Hey, could you, before we get into our topics, could you just give us a brief overview of your thoughts about sex and gender since that book was out?
[00:02:45.240 --> 00:02:47.320] Because a lot's happened in that space.
[00:02:47.640 --> 00:02:51.240] Yeah, well, I'm very happy to see that my work has been vindicated.
[00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:56.120] And all of those years, it's been basically a decade of people calling me transphobic and horrible.
[00:02:56.200 --> 00:02:59.960] Turns out I was right all along, so that was a relief.
[00:02:59.960 --> 00:03:18.040] But I mean, I really hope to see the rest of this ideology finally die the death it deserves because it's done a huge amount of damage to not just children who've been basically brainwashed, I think, and manipulated in some cases into making forever permanent changes to their bodies.
[00:03:18.440 --> 00:03:32.520] Also, the effects it's had on families, on women's sports, women's spaces, women not feeling safe, and I would say everyday transgender people who just want to live their lives, who want to transition and get on with things and don't want to force people to do anything they don't want to do.
[00:03:32.520 --> 00:03:36.440] So, yeah, I'm very, very glad to see that this is slowly being overturned.
[00:03:36.440 --> 00:03:39.960] Is it your sense that we've turned the tide now this year?
[00:03:39.960 --> 00:03:43.240] It kind of feels like things are moving in the right direction.
[00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:44.520] I do think so.
[00:03:44.520 --> 00:03:53.600] Yeah, I think the people who are clinging to the last remains of gender ideology either do so because they have some form of financial incentive or they are just purely delusional.
[00:03:53.600 --> 00:04:02.640] Honestly, I can't think of any other way because most people, I do believe, feel emboldened to say what they really think now, which is what we've all thought this whole time is that this is ridiculous.
[00:04:02.640 --> 00:04:04.080] There are two sexes.
[00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:14.000] Children do not have the mental or cognitive maturity to make life-altering decisions about their bodies or their fertility, and that men do not belong in women's sports.
[00:04:14.320 --> 00:04:14.880] Yep.
[00:04:14.880 --> 00:04:16.160] All right.
[00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:23.680] Yeah, the polls overwhelmingly show that almost everybody's against that.
[00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:26.720] And so, if enough of us speak out, then it'll disappear.
[00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:29.360] Okay, Deborah and I thought we'd cover three general topics.
[00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:33.040] One, pornography, and not should it be legal or not.
[00:04:33.040 --> 00:04:34.160] We're all libertarians.
[00:04:34.160 --> 00:04:36.080] Adults can do what they want.
[00:04:36.080 --> 00:04:40.320] But what about young teenagers, young boys, especially watching porn?
[00:04:40.320 --> 00:04:41.280] What are the effects?
[00:04:41.280 --> 00:04:42.320] Let's start there, Deborah.
[00:04:42.320 --> 00:04:43.280] What are your thoughts?
[00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:44.000] Sure.
[00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:50.880] So I want to first say I used to write for, I used to be a columnist for a very popular men's magazine that features nude women.
[00:04:50.880 --> 00:04:55.360] Since that time, like you said, you know, I feel pornography use in adults is one thing.
[00:04:55.360 --> 00:04:59.680] I am very critical and concerned about porn exposure in children.
[00:04:59.680 --> 00:05:07.440] We do see the average age nowadays of children being exposed to porn, either intentionally or by accident, is 12.
[00:05:07.440 --> 00:05:12.960] One in seven kids sees porn at the age of 10 or younger, which is very concerning to me.
[00:05:12.960 --> 00:05:28.000] And so I do think that for adults who grew up in a time before internet porn, had their first sexual experience prior to being exposed to online porn, if such a predominantly we see violent sexual preferences are in men more so than women.
[00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:35.400] Not to say it doesn't ever happen in women, but the concern is that is violent porn making men hateful of women or violent toward women.
[00:05:35.400 --> 00:05:43.320] And I would say prior to online porn, if they, again, did not grow up with easy access to this, I would say that's indicative of a man being antisocial.
[00:05:43.320 --> 00:05:48.120] There are probably other factors that have led him to hate women and to have these sexual preferences.
[00:05:48.120 --> 00:05:53.000] So I don't think porn is necessarily the root cause or to blame for that.
[00:05:53.000 --> 00:06:12.200] However, in children, I feel differently because we're seeing now, again, if these kids are watching this prior to ever having their first sexual experience, prior to even having their first orgasm, if their sexual awakening is paired with this stimulus, and online porn is very degrading, very violent as an adult.
[00:06:12.200 --> 00:06:17.160] I don't watch porn myself, but the times I've looked at it for research purposes, I have a hard time watching it myself.
[00:06:17.160 --> 00:06:18.520] Like, it's really disgusting.
[00:06:18.520 --> 00:06:19.720] It's not an exaggeration.
[00:06:19.720 --> 00:06:28.920] And so the fact that these young kids are seeing this, likely being traumatized, I do think has the potential to really affect their sexual development in a negative way.
[00:06:28.920 --> 00:06:38.760] And I do think also for girls, because porn use has predominantly been in men, but because of smartphones and because it's so easily accessed, and in many cases, kids are not looking for this, right?
[00:06:38.760 --> 00:06:39.480] It's accidental.
[00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:42.440] Either they see it on social media or their friends send it to them.
[00:06:42.440 --> 00:06:48.920] Even kids who are homeschooled, if they don't have their own device, someone else in their school or their class might show it to them on their device.
[00:06:48.920 --> 00:06:51.640] So they're being exposed to it, again, increasingly young ages.
[00:06:51.640 --> 00:06:52.600] Girls are seeing it.
[00:06:52.600 --> 00:06:55.160] Girls are intentionally seeking it out.
[00:06:55.160 --> 00:07:00.200] And I do think this has something to do with why we see more young women in Gen Z going.
[00:07:00.200 --> 00:07:11.480] Gen Z is age roughly 13 to 30, going into the sex industry, deciding to sell nudes, deciding to work a sugar baby Say, which is like a new rebranding of escorting.
[00:07:11.480 --> 00:07:13.720] And so I think there are a whole host of other issues.
[00:07:13.720 --> 00:07:20.240] I mean, I can get into the body image, the self-sexualization, like all that risky sex, having sex with multiple partners.
[00:07:14.840 --> 00:07:21.520] Yeah, it goes on and on.
[00:07:22.160 --> 00:07:24.320] Did you say age 10?
[00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:25.520] Or younger?
[00:07:25.520 --> 00:07:26.080] Or younger?
[00:07:26.400 --> 00:07:26.960] What?
[00:07:26.960 --> 00:07:28.880] Okay, I have a nine-year-old son.
[00:07:28.880 --> 00:07:32.320] He's mainly focused on Minecraft and zombies.
[00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:37.040] I guess I should start researching the parental controls and filters.
[00:07:37.040 --> 00:07:38.480] How good are those?
[00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:44.320] I would say that's a good step, but I would advocate for having a conversation.
[00:07:44.320 --> 00:07:50.160] Like you said, open discussion is probably the most effective way of protecting kids, which is so, I know it's so uncomfortable.
[00:07:52.960 --> 00:07:58.400] Unless you lock your child in the basement until they're like 50, you know, they will come across this at some point.
[00:07:58.400 --> 00:08:11.040] And even if, say, they don't come across it until their late teens or early 20s, which is very unlikely, statistically speaking, kids still need to know that they can come to their parents and talk to them about what they see, the fact that porn isn't reflective of real-life sex.
[00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:14.640] And for many of these kids, it is a traumatizing experience for them.
[00:08:14.640 --> 00:08:26.080] And you don't want a child to feel like they have to go through that, make sense of that on their own, especially when it has such huge effects on the way they view the opposite sex, how they think sex is supposed to be.
[00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:30.560] I mean, many of these boys especially think that women want to be beaten up during sex.
[00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:38.880] Like they will do interviews with these boys, they've done studies with teen boys, and they will say, oh, you know, you just slap a woman around or you beat her, they want this.
[00:08:38.880 --> 00:08:40.880] And then there's also this trend of choking.
[00:08:40.880 --> 00:08:43.520] So it's basically extremely common in Gen Z.
[00:08:43.520 --> 00:08:45.920] If you talk to anyone in Gen Z, they will tell you.
[00:08:45.920 --> 00:08:53.440] Even there was one study that was done in college-age women, and one in three women said the last time they had a sexual encounter, they were choked.
[00:08:53.440 --> 00:08:55.280] Now, some women will say they enjoy it.
[00:08:55.280 --> 00:08:57.040] I am very skeptical of this.
[00:08:57.280 --> 00:08:59.440] Generally, it's men choking women.
[00:08:59.440 --> 00:09:01.400] However, you know, sometimes it does happen in reverse.
[00:09:01.480 --> 00:09:13.160] But I do think porn has played a role because it's told these girls that you have to, or they think they have to enjoy this, otherwise, they're not going to be able to find a man, or you know, the men are not going to find them attractive.
[00:09:13.480 --> 00:09:15.400] Okay, last question in this category.
[00:09:15.400 --> 00:09:23.480] Given this libertarian audience, we tend not to like big government intervention into our private lives, but these are minors, these are children.
[00:09:23.480 --> 00:09:29.240] There is a role, is there not, for some government regulation in this space?
[00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:33.880] Yeah, the idea of government regulation makes me very uncomfortable.
[00:09:33.880 --> 00:09:41.240] I've written about this subject a number of times, and my audience has definitely let me know that they're very uncomfortable about it too, the potential for digital IDs as well.
[00:09:41.560 --> 00:09:49.800] I do think it's worth having more of a discussion about the nuances of what can be done because, again, like you said, parental blocking doesn't always work.
[00:09:50.120 --> 00:09:55.480] I do think something like age verification, you know, questionable is it effective or not.
[00:09:55.480 --> 00:10:01.480] But the other thing is that, say, if you want to ban pornography sites, most kids are going to be seeing this on social media.
[00:10:01.480 --> 00:10:11.160] So, I think a better approach would just be for parents to keep their kids off of social media until they're 18, just to, and more broadly, just to let them have a normal childhood so they're not staring at their screen all the time.
[00:10:11.160 --> 00:10:15.000] They're not going to have anxiety and issues with social skills and things like that.
[00:10:15.320 --> 00:10:16.120] Nice.
[00:10:16.120 --> 00:10:22.040] Our second category is prostitution versus sex work.
[00:10:22.040 --> 00:10:29.800] Not should it be legal or illegal or anything like that, but how should we treat it culturally or socially?
[00:10:29.800 --> 00:10:33.560] This is rather politicized as well.
[00:10:33.560 --> 00:10:47.200] The left tending to think of it as a legitimate form of work, labor, income, emancipation of women, do whatever they want with their bodies, call it sex work, it's a career, a job, whatever.
[00:10:47.200 --> 00:10:52.560] And with some of the financial models like OnlyFans, you can make a lot of money.
[00:10:52.560 --> 00:11:01.840] Although there is a Pareto distribution where 1% of the producers make 99% of the money or something along those lines.
[00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:05.520] Versus conservatives who tend to think of it as prostitution.
[00:11:05.520 --> 00:11:09.040] We should not raise it up to some honorable thing.
[00:11:09.040 --> 00:11:13.520] It's bad for women, it's bad for society, and we should stand against it.
[00:11:13.520 --> 00:11:14.960] What are your thoughts?
[00:11:15.280 --> 00:11:17.760] Well, I'll start with just a brief definition.
[00:11:17.760 --> 00:11:19.200] I'm sure everyone knows what sex work is.
[00:11:19.200 --> 00:11:20.160] I just don't like that term.
[00:11:20.160 --> 00:11:25.280] I think it glosses over what it really consists of, which is having sex for money, which is prostitution.
[00:11:25.280 --> 00:11:33.360] And I think, especially, like you said, culturally, there's this trend of really glamorizing it and selling it to young women as a really empowered way to make a living.
[00:11:33.680 --> 00:11:39.200] Ford was built on the belief that the world doesn't get to decide what you're capable of.
[00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:39.920] You do.
[00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:43.760] So ask yourself, can you or can't you?
[00:11:43.760 --> 00:11:48.560] Can you load up a Ford F-150 and build your dream with sweat and steel?
[00:11:48.560 --> 00:11:52.240] Can you chase thrills and conquer curves in a Mustang?
[00:11:52.240 --> 00:11:56.720] Can you take a Bronco to where the map ends and adventure begins?
[00:11:56.720 --> 00:12:00.800] Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right.
[00:12:00.800 --> 00:12:03.120] Ready, set, Ford.
[00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:08.000] If anything, it's being sold as entrepreneurial and the smart way to make money.
[00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:11.840] I disagree with this, and I do think that the sex industry will always exist.
[00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:18.480] I think, again, there's predominantly going to be women willing to sell their bodies and men willing to pay for sex.
[00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:28.880] At the same time, I don't think young women or young men who are thinking of joining the sex industry can make proper, informed decisions for themselves if they don't have all the information available to them.
[00:12:28.880 --> 00:12:31.560] And I do feel the cultural messaging is very much one-sided.
[00:12:31.800 --> 00:12:43.160] So, sex work can consist of, like I said, prostitution, say street prostitution, brothel prostitution, webcamming, stripping, pornography, like selling nudes.
[00:12:43.480 --> 00:12:51.960] I do consider pornography a form of prostitution because people are committing, or not committing, performing sex acts on camera for money.
[00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:59.080] In terms of the financial gain, I mean, it's been sold as a way to make millions of dollars overnight very easily.
[00:12:59.080 --> 00:13:07.240] But the average OnlyFans content creator say makes just over $1,000 a year, which is not very much money.
[00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:13.880] And then also sugar babying, so this is, like I said, a rebranding of escorting, where you have young women who are typically more educated.
[00:13:13.880 --> 00:13:19.480] So they are, usually in university, they're looking for an older, wealthy man to pay for their tuition.
[00:13:20.120 --> 00:13:25.480] And they will make, one study found that they made about $2,000 a month.
[00:13:25.480 --> 00:13:27.880] So this is for having sex for money.
[00:13:27.880 --> 00:13:30.600] $2,000 a month is the average income.
[00:13:30.600 --> 00:13:37.880] And the sugar daddies, so the men who are paying for the sugar babies, made on average $81,000 a month.
[00:13:37.880 --> 00:13:41.480] So these men are very wealthy and they can have their pick of the lot.
[00:13:41.480 --> 00:13:46.440] So really, the numbers are not in favor of these young women who are trying to make money selling sex.
[00:13:46.440 --> 00:13:51.320] And the other thing is the consequences of this are going to be with them for life, especially if they are successful.
[00:13:51.320 --> 00:13:56.280] That's the other side of it, because they go into it wanting to become household names and extremely successful.
[00:13:56.280 --> 00:14:04.760] But the flip side of that is when they do leave the industry, because I'm assuming most women are not going to work in porn, they're not going to be prostituting themselves until they're 65.
[00:14:04.760 --> 00:14:14.400] So when they do leave, if they were successful, people are going to recognize them and they're going to have to live with the consequences of that because men have a dual-mating strategy when it comes to how they approach sex.
[00:14:14.120 --> 00:14:16.960] They have long-term aspirations and short-term aspirations.
[00:14:17.120 --> 00:14:22.400] And if a woman falls into the short-term category, he may want to have sex with her, but he does not respect her.
[00:14:22.400 --> 00:14:26.400] He doesn't value her because this is someone that he just wants to have sex with very quickly and move on.
[00:14:26.400 --> 00:14:29.120] Versus a long-term commitment is someone he's going to invest in.
[00:14:29.120 --> 00:14:30.240] He's going to care for her.
[00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:33.680] He's going to take care of her and any potential offspring.
[00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:42.880] What about these college-age women who are trying to put themselves through college, paying these outrageous tuitions through being a sugar baby?
[00:14:42.880 --> 00:14:45.600] How many are actually really doing that?
[00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:57.440] It's estimated, so not just sugar baby, but just sex, working in the sex industry in general, it's about five to seven percent of university students are selling their bodies essentially for money.
[00:14:57.760 --> 00:14:59.520] I think, I mean, that makes me very sad.
[00:14:59.520 --> 00:15:00.640] I'm not judging these women.
[00:15:00.640 --> 00:15:01.120] I understand.
[00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:02.560] I remember being a PhD student.
[00:15:02.560 --> 00:15:03.600] I was broke.
[00:15:03.600 --> 00:15:04.720] Like, you wouldn't believe it.
[00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:09.040] I remember I would go to the grocery store an hour before it closed to get everything on sale.
[00:15:09.040 --> 00:15:14.160] It's really sad, but if there's anyone out there who's in grad school and struggling, that's the way to do it.
[00:15:14.160 --> 00:15:25.520] And, you know, I would say to young people, I know how you feel, but this is really, you're being sold, I think, a lie that you can make quick money, tons of money, really quickly.
[00:15:25.520 --> 00:15:26.880] I mean, you see the media stories, right?
[00:15:26.880 --> 00:15:33.120] And you see stories of young women whose families disown them because they decided to sell news, they decided to do porn.
[00:15:33.120 --> 00:15:39.200] And then, oh, they became a millionaire, and suddenly their family is happy to take them back and happy to have them pay for their mortgage and things like that.
[00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:42.240] But I really do think playing the long game is better in the end.
[00:15:42.240 --> 00:15:46.080] And also, I mean, the effects on a young woman psychologically.
[00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:55.760] It's not, I don't think it's good for anyone to be having, say, sex with multiple, income, in some cases, 10, 20 people in a given day, or even in a couple months, or even over a lifetime, really.
[00:15:55.760 --> 00:15:58.240] I don't think promiscuity is good for men or women, honestly.
[00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:14.200] And so, to do that, and then to have to live with the psychological ramifications of that, and also I think the reason why many women do this work is not just for the financial reasons, it's because they do have unfortunate histories, either of sexual abuse, of some form of trauma.
[00:16:14.200 --> 00:16:15.800] They grew up without a father in the home.
[00:16:16.120 --> 00:16:25.960] Having a father in the home teaches women that, I mean, I might sound very old-fashioned by saying this, but the research literature bears out, having a father in the home shows women what to expect in men.
[00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:29.000] And I don't, again, blame these women for growing up without fathers.
[00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:32.200] I think it's the father's fault for not being in their daughters' lives.
[00:16:32.200 --> 00:16:36.840] But, you know, they learn very quickly if a father is not around that men don't stick around.
[00:16:36.840 --> 00:16:44.440] So, the way to have a relationship with a man is to offer sex very quickly and to not really expect very much from him in return.
[00:16:44.760 --> 00:16:49.800] Okay, our third category then: should women try to have sex like men?
[00:16:49.800 --> 00:16:52.440] Okay, setting aside prostitution, sex work, whatever.
[00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:54.440] Just normal relationships.
[00:16:54.440 --> 00:17:05.320] Setting aside Lily Phillips, who puts you up 100 men in one 24-hour period, or this is just craziness of the internet system, as it's incentivized.
[00:17:05.320 --> 00:17:07.080] But just dating.
[00:17:07.080 --> 00:17:09.640] You mentioned dual mating strategies.
[00:17:09.640 --> 00:17:10.520] What is that?
[00:17:10.840 --> 00:17:14.040] What are the strategies that women have, that men have?
[00:17:14.360 --> 00:17:16.440] Can women have sex like men?
[00:17:16.440 --> 00:17:21.240] Just, you know, the endless partners and all that, and if not, why not?
[00:17:21.880 --> 00:17:32.040] I think women should approach sex like men if they want to end up heartbroken because men and women on average are different in terms of we have biologically based sex differences in the brain.
[00:17:32.040 --> 00:17:36.520] Not to say that, of course, that there aren't some men who are more like women or that there aren't some women who are more like men.
[00:17:36.520 --> 00:17:38.440] Obviously, there are individual differences.
[00:17:38.440 --> 00:17:41.920] But on average, there are differences between men and women.
[00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:51.600] Also, also with regard to mating psychology, and this makes sense from an evolutionary perspective because for women, sex is much higher in cost in that it comes with the potential for pregnancy.
[00:17:51.920 --> 00:17:59.520] And with pregnancy, it means that you will carry the fetus for nine months, you will give birth, you will breastfeed, you will be the primary caregiver.
[00:17:59.520 --> 00:18:09.360] And so it makes sense for women to be much more selective and want to vet her partners and want to get to know them well and decide if she's going to have sex with a man.
[00:18:09.360 --> 00:18:11.840] Is he going to stick around after in case she does get pregnant?
[00:18:11.840 --> 00:18:24.400] Or even if she doesn't want to have children, just because women are more likely to become attached after sex than men, because women experience a higher release of oxytocin, which is the bonding hormone during sex, and men do not.
[00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:34.000] And in fact, men have a hormone called vasopressin that increases during sex, so it's bonding, but then the minute they climax, this drops down to zero.
[00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:35.840] So the minute they're done, they really are done.
[00:18:35.840 --> 00:18:36.800] They don't feel anything after.
[00:18:36.800 --> 00:18:38.000] It's not the same for women.
[00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:40.320] So men, like I said, they have a dual mating strategy.
[00:18:40.320 --> 00:18:51.760] So if a woman is having lots of casual sex, they tend to slot her into this short-term category because men are really averse to promiscuity and they are really afraid of being cuckolded potentially.
[00:18:51.760 --> 00:18:56.960] So if a woman has many partners, we have DNA testing nowadays so you can determine who the father is.
[00:18:56.960 --> 00:19:09.520] But from an evolutionary and biological perspective, men are going to be very skeptical and say, well, if I know that this woman has had sex with many men very recently, or even just in general, how can I ascertain that this child is actually mine?
[00:19:09.520 --> 00:19:13.360] And a man is not going to want to invest in a child that he cannot be sure is his own.
[00:19:13.360 --> 00:19:15.280] So there's that dual-mating strategy.
[00:19:15.280 --> 00:19:22.880] And also, I would say, you know, with regard to preferences in socio-sexuality, so men do prefer casual sex more than women.
[00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:26.480] You see this in egalitarian cultures and actually the gap between men and women.
[00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:32.360] So men prefer casual sex even more than women in countries with greater gender equality.
[00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:36.040] So I think just because men and women are different doesn't mean that one's better than the other.
[00:19:36.200 --> 00:19:37.800] I've said this my whole career.
[00:19:37.800 --> 00:19:40.520] But yeah, that's my advice.
[00:19:40.840 --> 00:19:41.640] Come on, admit it.
[00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:43.480] We men are pigs.
[00:19:44.440 --> 00:19:45.720] Not all men.
[00:19:46.360 --> 00:19:54.520] If you see, Deborah's written about these massive studies from the dating sites where they have millions of subjects that fill out the form.
[00:19:54.840 --> 00:20:00.840] Like one of which was, I recall, was how many dates would you need to go on with this person before you'd be intimate with them?
[00:20:00.840 --> 00:20:02.920] So for the women, the average was seven.
[00:20:02.920 --> 00:20:05.160] For the men, it was close to one.
[00:20:05.480 --> 00:20:10.600] So for every guy that said two dates, there was some guy that said, why go out on a date?
[00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:14.760] And estimated the number of partners you'd like in a lifetime.
[00:20:14.760 --> 00:20:20.360] I forget what the X was, but it was like four or five times more for men than women and so on.
[00:20:20.360 --> 00:20:23.880] All right, just give us your kind of final thoughts here, Deborah.
[00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:29.320] She's coming to us, by the way, from the 51st State of the Union, the People's Republic of Canada.
[00:20:29.320 --> 00:20:31.640] So thank you for zooming in on us.
[00:20:31.960 --> 00:20:37.400] Give us your final thoughts, recommendations to men and women and how they should behave sexually.
[00:20:37.720 --> 00:20:41.400] Oh, dear Michael, you really do want to get me canceled once and for all.
[00:20:42.680 --> 00:20:54.920] My final thoughts would be: I think, yeah, it's very important that parents feel that they can talk to their kids about this subject and that, you know, I appreciate the audience being here listening to our talk today.
[00:20:54.920 --> 00:21:05.000] I know that this subject can be very uncomfortable and probably controversial, and I'm sure there are things that I've said that not everyone agrees with, but I appreciate that you guys are all very open-minded.
[00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:06.440] And I'd love to hear your feedback.
[00:21:06.440 --> 00:21:13.320] Also, I'm always open to hearing different perspectives, and I will forever be fascinated by this subject, so I love hearing people's stories as well.
[00:21:13.320 --> 00:21:14.720] All right, thank you.
[00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:19.920] Say, let's say thank you for Deborah.
[00:21:14.520 --> 00:21:21.040] Really appreciate that.
[00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:23.920] Her book again is The End of Gender.
[00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:25.520] Really important work.
[00:21:25.520 --> 00:21:26.480] Hot topic.
[00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:28.240] Thank you very much.
[00:21:28.880 --> 00:21:29.840] All right.
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