The Rewatchables

‘Zodiac’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

January 26, 2026

Key Takeaways Copied to clipboard!

  • The film *Zodiac* has grown significantly in stature as a rewatchable movie over the last decade, partly due to its availability on streaming platforms like Netflix, despite its initial slow burn and February 2007 release date. 
  • The movie's genius lies in its focus on the unknowability and unsolvability of evil, contrasting with more satisfying procedural thrillers like *Seven*. 
  • The production of *Zodiac* was meticulously researched, with Fincher and the screenwriter re-interviewing witnesses and using police reports as a baseline, reflecting Fincher's own obsessive methodology which mirrors the film's themes. 
  • The film's genius lies in its portrayal of the investigation's bureaucratic disorder and the difficulty in distinguishing between circumstantial evidence and hard proof regarding the Zodiac Killer's true responsibility. 
  • Arthur Lee Allen is heavily implied as the killer due to overwhelming circumstantial evidence (watch, gloves, proximity to victims, suspicious behavior) despite the handwriting expert ruling him out. 
  • David Fincher's meticulous, high-take filmmaking style, while frustrating for actors, was crucial for capturing the granular detail necessary for the investigation, as evidenced by the notes taken by the character Armstrong. 
  • David Fincher's meticulous attention to detail is highlighted by his decision to digitally add hair to Jake Gyllenhaal's knuckles and his insistence on using historically accurate trees at Lake Berryessa. 
  • Robert Downey Jr.'s on-screen smoking skills, particularly his ability to handle filterless cigarettes while delivering lines, earned him a dedicated award from the hosts. 
  • The consensus among the hosts of *The Rewatchables* for the episode ‘Zodiac’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey is that *Zodiac* is the greatest American crime film ever made because it accurately portrays the tedious, journalistic process of solving a crime. 
  • The discussion revealed a production error in *Zodiac* where Chloe orders Penne a la Vodka and substitutes the cream sauce, despite Penne a la Vodka being inherently a cream sauce, a detail director David Fincher acknowledged was a mistake. 
  • The hosts debated whether the film's structure, with its short, dense scenes, makes it function more like prestige television than a traditional rewatchable movie. 
  • The consensus winner of the movie was David Fincher, though the Zodiac killer's myth was arguably burnished by the film's existence, and the film was surprisingly deemed a good 'generational connector' family watch due to its historical setting. 

Segments

Podcast Network and Video Launch
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(00:00:42)
  • Key Takeaway: The Ringer Podcast Network is launching The Rewatchables as one of its first podcasts available on both Spotify (video) and Netflix.
  • Summary: The Ringer Podcast Network is expanding its distribution by releasing this podcast with video on Netflix, alongside Spotify. Sean Fennessey, who hosts The Big Picture, and Chris Ryan, who is on The Big Picture and The Watch, are part of this network. The hosts confirm they have other podcasts running on video platforms.
Zodiac’s Rewatchable Status
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(00:01:12)
  • Key Takeaway: The decision to revisit Zodiac was long-awaited, stemming from an accidental omission of the film from Bill Simmons’ top 50 most rewatchable movies of the 21st century list.
  • Summary: The hosts had been circling this movie for a long time, and this episode serves as making amends for Zodiac being cut from a previous list due to a copy-paste error. The film’s availability on Netflix made it a good candidate for a starting point in their current format. The movie is considered a genuine ‘hardcore rewatchable’ despite its initial slow reception.
2007 Box Office Context
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(00:02:19)
  • Key Takeaway: The 2007 box office was dominated by sequels and franchise entries, highlighting a stark contrast with the critically acclaimed, non-franchise films released that year, including Zodiac.
  • Summary: The top 10 box office movies of 2007 included Spider-Man 3, Shrek 3, and Transformers. Other major releases that year included prestige films like There Will Be Blood, No Country for Old Men, and Zodiac. The hosts noted that Zodiac was the slowest burn among these high-quality 2007 releases.
Slow Burn Nature and Release Date
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(00:03:09)
  • Key Takeaway: The film’s slow burn nature might have been exacerbated by its delayed release from a 2006 awards contender slot to a February 28th release date after studio-mandated cuts.
  • Summary: The movie’s inherent design encourages revisiting and dissatisfaction with the lack of resolution, unlike satisfying serial killer films like Seven. The original plan was for Zodiac to be a December awards player, but studio concerns about its length pushed it to a late February slot. This shift likely impacted its initial reception, though the film is inherently designed to be methodical.
Rewatchability Through Detail
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(00:04:54)
  • Key Takeaway: Zodiac demands constant attention, rewarding multiple viewings where subtle visual and expository details, missed in a theater setting, become apparent.
  • Summary: The film functions almost as an endurance test, requiring viewers to pay attention to 100% of the screen for visual and expository information. Upon rewatching, subtle hints and background gestures become noticeable, suggesting the movie is made to be studied rather than passively consumed. This density contributes to its status as a strong rewatchable.
Fincher’s Abandoned Film Philosophy
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(00:06:33)
  • Key Takeaway: David Fincher believes films are not finished but ‘abandoned,’ a sentiment the hosts apply to Zodiac, suggesting endless potential for revisiting the material.
  • Summary: The hosts reference a Fincher quote implying that he stopped making Zodiac only because he had to move on to another project, not because it was complete. This feeling of incompletion contributes to the desire to keep discussing and rewatching the film. The hosts suggest this episode might necessitate a ‘part two’ or ‘part three’ due to its depth.
Personal Connection to the Material
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(00:07:48)
  • Key Takeaway: The film resonates deeply with the hosts because it mirrors their personal backgrounds: Chris Ryan’s father was a newspaperman, and Bill Simmons’ father was a police detective.
  • Summary: The hosts recognize the film as a beautiful personal story for David Fincher, reflecting his adolescence in the Bay Area during the Zodiac events. The film’s focus on a newspaper man and a police detective trying to solve a case directly mirrors the professional backgrounds of two of the hosts’ fathers. This personal connection reinforces the film’s profound impact on their worldview, aligning with Fincher’s cynical perspective on evil.
The Danger of Trust in the 1970s
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(00:08:43)
  • Key Takeaway: A key lesson from the film is the danger of pulling over when signaled by a stranger on the freeway, a scenario plausible only during the more trusting era of the late 1960s/early 1970s.
  • Summary: The hosts nitpicked the scene where a character pulls over after being flashed by another driver, noting that such good Samaritanism is unlikely today. They suggest the late 60s/early 70s represented America’s most trusting period, contrasting sharply with modern behavior where people ignore each other. This historical context is crucial for understanding the initial setup of the crime.
2007 Film Class Comparison
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(00:10:03)
  • Key Takeaway: The 2007 cinematic landscape, featuring There Will Be Blood, No Country for Old Men, and Zodiac, felt like a modern equivalent to the classic filmmaking era of the 1970s.
  • Summary: While Michael Clayton was initially seen as being on the same level, the maximalist nature of the other three films sets them apart as defining works. These films, along with Michael Clayton, felt like intentional 70s throwbacks, explicitly following that era’s playbook, especially regarding directors like Fincher and Gilroy. Zodiac is often cited as the film people point to when lamenting the loss of that quality of filmmaking.
Digital Cinematography and Modern Feel
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(00:13:35)
  • Key Takeaway: Because Zodiac was shot digitally with high clarity, it retains a modern, familiar look akin to streaming TV, making it more accessible to younger audiences than older film artifacts.
  • Summary: The digital capture avoids the grain of film, preventing the movie from feeling like a museum piece despite its 1970s setting. Fincher’s mastery of digital cinematography ensures the film looks specific and well-made, yet contemporary. This clarity is so high that the 4K transfer looks better than it did in theaters, allowing viewers to clearly distinguish the different actors used for each kill scene.
Obsession and Research Depth
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(00:15:14)
  • Key Takeaway: The film’s meticulous execution, comparable to All the President’s Men and Spotlight, stems from the screenwriter and Fincher spending 18 months redoing the police work.
  • Summary: The commitment to research involved re-interviewing living witnesses and using police reports as the baseline for accuracy, a level of dedication unlikely to be repeated. This obsessive process mirrors the film’s central theme of obsession, which resonates with the hosts as ‘rabbit hole people.’ The film’s structure is split into two parts: the hunt for the killer and the long-term impact on the characters.
The Interrogation Scene’s Stylistic Choice
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(00:24:28)
  • Key Takeaway: The intense interrogation scene featuring Elias Koteas is the only time in the entire film where Fincher uses direct, single shots looking down the barrel of the camera, representing the killer’s POV.
  • Summary: This scene is described as one of the most electrifying dialogue sequences of the century, where the three main actors size up the suspect. Fincher, who dislikes sincerity, pushes actors through hundreds of takes to find genuine behavior, often focusing on background details. The shift to direct address in this scene breaks the film’s established visual pattern to emphasize the confrontation.
Fincher’s Post-Zodiac Run
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(00:31:54)
  • Key Takeaway: Following Zodiac, David Fincher embarked on an incredible run of critically acclaimed films (The Curious Case of Benjamin Button, The Social Network, The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo) in just seven years, though Benjamin Button is considered his weakest of that period.
  • Summary: Fincher is unique among auteur filmmakers because he is not a writer-director, relying instead on strong screenwriters like James Vanderbilt, who wrote Zodiac on spec. While Benjamin Button is seen as a swing-and-miss where Fincher struggled with sincerity, the subsequent films are considered to improve with every viewing. This period cemented Fincher’s status as one of the century’s most impressive filmmakers.
Cast Performances and Career Trajectories
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(00:32:20)
  • Key Takeaway: The film features key career moments for its leads: Jake Gyllenhaal in his ‘wide-eyed, innocent weirdo’ phase, Robert Downey Jr. at the start of his comeback, and Mark Ruffalo delivering a highly controlled, elite performance.
  • Summary: Gyllenhaal’s performance here precedes his string of intense, strange roles, while Downey Jr. was capitalizing on his Kiss Kiss Bang Bang success before Iron Man. Ruffalo’s performance as Toski is praised as elite and calculated, informed by research into the detective’s real-life ailments like ulcers. Craig Horlbeck ranks Ruffalo’s performance in Zodiac as his second best, behind You Can Count On Me.
2007 Oscar Snub and Release Timing
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(00:43:08)
  • Key Takeaway: Zodiac received zero Oscar nominations in 2007 because its late February release date signaled to the industry that it was not an awards contender, a bias that has since lessened.
  • Summary: The film was completely shut out of nominations, including Best Picture, Director, and Screenplay, despite the high quality of its competition like No Country for Old Men and There Will Be Blood. The February release date was a major factor, as the Academy historically favored films released later in the year. The hosts believe Zodiac should have displaced a film like Juno in the Best Picture lineup.
Zodiac Murders Timeline Review
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(00:49:47)
  • Key Takeaway: The opening murders in the film are not explicitly established as the first Zodiac killings, which the hosts suggest is a minor flaw in clarity regarding the Riverside murders.
  • Summary: The movie begins in media res, allowing the newspaper and police to already be aware of an issue. The first murders shown are the Lover’s Lane incident in July 1969, involving Darlene Farron, though the Riverside murders are considered by Fincher to potentially predate them. The timeline includes the September killing of two law students at Lake Berryessa.
Most Dangerous Game Connection
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(00:51:54)
  • Key Takeaway: Detective Gray Smith connects the Zodiac case to the 1932 film ‘The Most Dangerous Game’ (also known as ‘Surviving the Game’), which features a villain hunting human prey.
  • Summary: The connection is made to the 1932 film ‘The Most Dangerous Game,’ which depicts Count Zaroff hunting live human prey. The hosts note that this story has been remade multiple times, including a version called ‘The Hunt’ released around the COVID year. The original 1932 film is noted as being short, about 80 minutes, and feeling stretched.
Arthur Lee Allen Evidence Review
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(00:53:33)
  • Key Takeaway: Arthur Lee Allen possessed numerous suspicious items, including a Zodiac watch, matching glove size, and boots, and lived near the first victim, yet the case against him collapsed due to lack of hard evidence like handwriting match.
  • Summary: Police interviewed Arthur Lee Allen in 1971 and noted several incriminating details, including his possession of a Zodiac watch and matching gloves. He also lived near the first victim, Darlene, and had a trailer full of strange items, including a wooden dildo. The investigation stalled because the handwriting expert could not confirm the connection, preventing a warrant for his trailer before he moved.
Bureaucratic Disorder and Data Management
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(00:56:13)
  • Key Takeaway: The investigation’s difficulty stemmed from the lack of centralized data management and limited FBI involvement compared to modern standards, making organization of facts paramount.
  • Summary: The film effectively portrays the bureaucratic disorder caused by multiple police departments operating without the internet or a centralizing force. Gray Smith’s project involved organizing all the facts, which would be instantly accessible in a modern database. Fincher noted that the investigation was only possible because Armstrong took such detailed notes, providing the raw material needed.
Arthur Lee Allen’s Suspicious Life Details
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(00:58:33)
  • Key Takeaway: Arthur Lee Allen had specific skills and behaviors—teaching cryptography, being an incredible swimmer, and possessing a bloody knife the night of the Bluff Murders—that added to the suspicion against him.
  • Summary: Allen taught high school students how to use and decode letter symbols, suggesting knowledge relevant to the Zodiac ciphers. He was found with a bloody knife the same night as the Bluff Murders, claiming it was used on a chicken. He also had multiple instances of pedophilia charges and lived in a trailer filled with strange items.
Recent Unsolved Case Theories
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(00:59:07)
  • Key Takeaway: An amateur sleuth named Alex Baber recently claimed to have solved the Zodiac case using AI, identifying Marvin Margolis (alias Marvin Merrill), who was also investigated for the Black Dahlia murder, as the killer.
  • Summary: Alex Baber, an amateur sleuth with autism, used AI to narrow down possibilities from the coded messages, landing on Marvin Margolis. Margolis was investigated for the Black Dahlia murder and had relevant skills as a Navy medic capable of quick amputations. The hosts express skepticism about the Black Dahlia/Zodiac connection due to the significant geographical distance between the crimes.
Multiple Killers and Occam’s Razor
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(01:02:45)
  • Key Takeaway: The theory that the Zodiac killings were committed by multiple people is considered plausible, though the hosts lean toward Occam’s Razor, finding the evidence pointing to Arthur Lee Allen for the first murder most convincing.
  • Summary: The possibility of multiple people working together is acknowledged, especially concerning the basement scene and the connection between those who wrote the letters. The hosts prefer simpler explanations, noting that the evidence strongly suggests Arthur Lee Allen killed Darlene based on the pre-existing relationship and murder details. The variation in crime style makes the single-killer theory harder to fully embrace.
Runtime and Director’s Cut Rumors
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(01:04:04)
  • Key Takeaway: The film’s 157-minute runtime was slightly longer than the studio’s initial two-hour-fifteen-minute maximum, and rumors persist about a much longer, potentially revealing director’s cut.
  • Summary: The movie barely recouped its $70 million budget worldwide, making only $85 million. The hosts suggest 15 minutes could be cut from the middle section where Ruffalo runs into dead ends. There are rumors of a three-hour and 10-minute cut submitted to the studio that supposedly reveals the Zodiac Killer’s identity.
Most Rewatchable Scenes Selection
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(01:11:00)
  • Key Takeaway: The opening Lover’s Lane murder is creepy due to the flashlight gimmick, but the interrogation of Arthur Lee Allen and the final breakfast meeting between Graysmith and Toski are cited as top rewatchable moments.
  • Summary: The opening sequence is praised for its immersive, static tracking shot of the suburbs, effectively placing the viewer in the time and place. The Arthur Lee Allen interrogation is highlighted for the subtle but chilling face changes by John Carroll Lynch. The final breakfast meeting where Graysmith presents his findings to Toski provides a false sense of satisfaction before the title cards reveal the case remains unsolved.
Melvin Belli’s Cultural Significance
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(01:14:19)
  • Key Takeaway: Melvin Belli, the lawyer who engaged with the fake Zodiac caller on TV, represents a unique, flamboyant 1970s media figure who is no longer common in public life.
  • Summary: Belli was a famous lawyer who frequently appeared on television, a type of personality that seems absent today. He was also involved in the Altamont Free Concert, appearing in the documentary ‘Gimme Shelter.’ Brian Cox’s portrayal is difficult to watch now because of his subsequent role as Logan Roy.
The Ioni Scott Car Ride Terror
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(01:15:19)
  • Key Takeaway: The car ride scene where Ioni Scott is threatened by the killer is terrifying because of the killer’s casual demeanor and the sudden, extreme threat to her child.
  • Summary: The scene is highly rewatchable because of the terror induced by the killer’s actions, including threatening to throw the baby out the window. The sequence utilizes a jump cut ahead of time, similar to ‘No Country for Old Men,’ creating intense suspense. The killer’s appearance in an all-black jumpsuit and hood embodies the living embodiment of murder.
Graysmith and Avery’s Banter
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(01:16:00)
  • Key Takeaway: The developing relationship between Graysmith and Paul Avery (mistakenly called Roger Avery) is highlighted by their banter, particularly Avery’s dismissive reaction to Graysmith’s reading habits.
  • Summary: The scene at Morty’s bar shows Avery mocking Graysmith’s love of reading, stating, ‘Those are the same thing.’ The hosts note the chemistry between Robert Downey Jr. (Avery) and Jake Gyllenhaal (Graysmith) is excellent. Avery’s character is implied to have a checkered past, possibly involving incarceration.
Fincher’s Directing Style and Takes
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(01:27:32)
  • Key Takeaway: David Fincher is notorious for demanding an extreme number of takes (up to 90), which actors like Gyllenhaal and Downey found grueling but ultimately yielded superior performances.
  • Summary: Gyllenhaal noted that Fincher would sometimes shoot 90 takes, and Downey stated he decided to cooperate after initially wanting to ‘garrot him.’ Ruffalo compared Fincher’s pace unfavorably to Michael Mann’s efficiency. Fincher justified the process by stating he is willing to wait as long as necessary to get the performance he needs, often deleting early takes digitally.
What’s Age the Best: True Crime Obsession
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(01:33:55)
  • Key Takeaway: The film was ahead of its time in capturing the obsession with unsolved true crime, foreshadowing the modern cultural phenomenon seen in documentaries and podcasts.
  • Summary: The movie captures the desperation to understand mundane tragedy and the desire to solve the unsolvable, which resonates with today’s audience. Graysmith functions as an original internet poster, using the external problem to divert from personal issues. The hosts admit to falling into the same trap by researching Zodiac theories on Reddit.
What’s Age the Best: San Francisco Setting
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(01:35:06)
  • Key Takeaway: Fincher’s depiction of late 60s/early 70s San Francisco feels uniquely haunted and is considered by the hosts to be the best cinematic location, distinct from other major cities.
  • Summary: The city’s setting is characterized by its hills, trolleys, and Alcatraz, making it instantly recognizable in film, unlike more amorphous cities like LA. The film captures the post-hippie, toxic, and dangerous atmosphere of the era. The movie spends significant time in the disconnected, lower middle-class small towns surrounding the Bay Area.
Fincher’s Dad Obsessions
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(01:40:30)
  • Key Takeaway: Fincher’s films Zodiac and Mank are both rooted in obsessions related to his father.
  • Summary: Fincher discusses his father frequently on the commentary track, noting his father was part of the milieu surrounding the Zodiac case. The director is haunted by both the positive and negative aspects of that experience. The discussion briefly touches on Paul Avery’s home, which one host nominated for an award.
Newspaper Office Realism
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(01:41:27)
  • Key Takeaway: The recreation of the San Francisco Chronicle office accurately captured the quiet mornings and frantic deadline rushes of newspaper work.
  • Summary: The hosts reference Roger Ebert’s observation that the empty newspaper office scenes accurately reflect the reality of newspaper life. They note that mornings are quiet with few people present. Activity ramps up significantly around (4:00) PM when deadline time approaches.
Effective Soundtrack Choices
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(01:41:53)
  • Key Takeaway: The Zodiac soundtrack effectively transitions from 1960s rock to late-1970s Yacht Rock as the timeline progresses.
  • Summary: The soundtrack features artists like Three Dog Night, Santana (“Soul Sacrifice”), and Donovan. As the film moves into the late 1970s, the music shifts to Yacht Rock, including Steely Dan and Gerry Rafferty. The hosts specifically praise the needle drop of “Crystal Blue Persuasion.”
Robert Downey Jr. Smoking Award
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(01:42:21)
  • Key Takeaway: Robert Downey Jr.’s performance earned the ‘PAC Award for excellence in on-screen smoking’ due to his mastery of lighting cigarettes mid-scene.
  • Summary: Downey Jr. is noted for smoking filterless cigarettes, adding another layer of difficulty to his performance. He perfected the technique of lighting a cigarette without breaking character or missing a line of dialogue. One specific moment cited is him lighting a cigarette while reading a Zodiac letter without missing a beat.
Mount Rushmore of Smoking Actors
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(01:43:19)
  • Key Takeaway: Robert Downey Jr. is considered a contender for the Mount Rushmore of actors skilled at on-screen smoking, alongside De Niro and Cleo Duvall.
  • Summary: The discussion pivots to ranking actors based on their smoking scenes, comparing Downey Jr. to De Niro. Cleo Duvall is also praised for a great smoking scene where she appears to have ‘seen a few things in her day.’ The hosts then move into awarding the ‘Great Shot Gordo Award.’
Cinematic Shots and Digital Blood
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(01:43:43)
  • Key Takeaway: Fincher utilized digital blood for the stabbing sequence at Lake Berryessa to avoid costly costume changes across numerous takes.
  • Summary: The ‘Great Shot Gordo Award’ winner included the sequence of the Zodiac Killer approaching over the hill, the hold on Hartnell’s face during the stabbing, and the subsequent shot of the woman’s torso. Fincher used digital blood for the stabbing sequence because they shot the scene about 60 times. The actress was a ‘champ’ for enduring the repeated takes.
Fincher’s Digital Maniacal Detail
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(01:46:58)
  • Key Takeaway: David Fincher earned the ‘David Fincher Award for wow this director may have been a fucking lunatic’ for digitally adding hair to Jake Gyllenhaal’s knuckles.
  • Summary: Fincher digitally added hair to Jake Gyllenhaal’s knuckles in close-ups because he felt the actor’s hands were ’too hairless and pretty.’ This obsessive detail earned him the award. The hosts then moved to the ‘Sean Fennessey Award for stealth homage.’
Homage to ‘Memories of Murder’
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(01:47:28)
  • Key Takeaway: A subtle homage in Zodiac to Bong Joon-ho’s Memories of Murder occurs when a child witness describes the killer as looking ’normal.'
  • Summary: The hosts note that Zodiac contains homages to films like All the President’s Men. The specific reference to Memories of Murder is the description of the killer as ’normal,’ a line used in the Korean film. The hosts express mild annoyance that Fincher seems to have many director allies, preferring directors who feud.
Porn Parody and Zodiac’s Incompetence
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(01:49:23)
  • Key Takeaway: A porn parody of Zodiac exists, titled The Zodiac Killer, starring John Holmes, and the actual Zodiac Killer demonstrated significant incompetence despite his notoriety.
  • Summary: The hosts reveal the existence of the porn parody, which runs for 63 minutes. They then award the ‘Vincent Chase Award’ to the Zodiac Killer himself for being a poor criminal. The killer failed to finish two murders, revealed his birthday over the phone, and wore a watch identifying him as ‘Zodiac.’
Weak Link and Unexplained Plot Points
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(01:51:06)
  • Key Takeaway: The segment where Paul Avery travels to Riverside felt like an unnecessary scene added solely to feature more Robert Downey Jr. content.
  • Summary: The hosts struggled to find a weak link in the film but singled out Avery’s trip to Riverside as confusing and potentially self-serving for the actor. They also criticize the film for not adequately explaining the first Zodiac double murder to viewers unfamiliar with the real case. The credibility of the character Donald Cheney, who provided key details about Arthur Leigh Allen, is questioned based on real-world skepticism.
What Aged Worst and Director’s Choices
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(01:54:29)
  • Key Takeaway: The abrupt four-year time jump, replacing a montage of hit songs signaling the passage of time, is cited as the element that aged the worst.
  • Summary: The cut from a montage featuring Joni Mitchell to Donna Summer to a simple ‘four years later’ title card was deemed a bad decision. The hosts also noted that the entertaining friendship between Graysmith and Avery felt the most ‘movie-ish’ because they were not actually friends in real life. The ongoing nature of the cold case, now fueled by Reddit and AI, is seen as the modern equivalent of the film’s central mystery.
Eileen’s Character Critique
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(01:57:03)
  • Key Takeaway: Jake Gyllenhaal’s character’s wife, Eileen, is criticized for having ‘infinite patience’ for his obsession, despite him revealing his unstable nature early on.
  • Summary: Eileen is nominated for the ‘Rose from Titanic Award for character who sneaky sucks’ for staying with the ’lunatic’ cartoonist husband. The hosts argue she should have left after realizing his life revolved around the case, especially since he warned her on the first date. Her character serves as an active comment on the limited roles for women in the police and newspaper worlds of that era.
Casting What-Ifs and Director’s Taste
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(02:05:25)
  • Key Takeaway: David Fincher initially considered Brad Pitt for the role of Paul Avery before casting Robert Downey Jr., who brought necessary fast-talking energy.
  • Summary: Jennifer Aniston reportedly recommended Jake Gyllenhaal and Mark Ruffalo to Fincher. Fincher preferred Downey Jr. over Pitt for Avery because Downey brought the ‘uppers’ energy needed for a smart-aleck journalist, whereas Pitt plays ’low-key or burnt out’ better. The hosts also noted that Anthony Edwards (Armstrong) was Fincher’s choice for the ‘assist’ role, making others look better.
Hottest Takes on Zodiac
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(02:00:16)
  • Key Takeaway: One host declared Zodiac the greatest American crime film ever made for portraying the actual, often boring, process of solving a crime, while another argued the Zodiac Killer is the ‘goat serial killer’ for never being caught and creating an enduring cultural universe.
  • Summary: The first hot take emphasized that the film succeeds by focusing on journalism and the ethic of digging deep, unlike more cinematic crime films like Heat. The counter-take praised the Zodiac Killer’s ‘phenomenal run’ of evading capture and creating a legacy comparable to the JFK assassination conspiracy theories. The hosts agreed that serial killing as a concept has aged the worst due to modern technology like DNA and Ring cameras.
Zodiac Case Details and Spreading Thin
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(02:30:17)
  • Key Takeaway: The investigators in the Zodiac case became too spread out, potentially missing leads because they were focused on too many unrelated murders.
  • Summary: It is suggested that Detective Toski did not accept the handwriting analysis conclusion. A point was raised that the case became too diffuse, with investigators focusing on 200 murders over four years, distracting from the core Zodiac investigation.
Penne a la Vodka Anachronism
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(02:30:40)
  • Key Takeaway: The order of Penne a la Vodka with a cream sauce substitution in Zodiac is an anachronism because the dish’s popularity with cream sauce originated in the 1980s, not the 1970s setting of the film.
  • Summary: A Reddit user pointed out that Chloe’s order was factually incorrect for the film’s time period. Penne a la Vodka is inherently a cream sauce, making the request for a substitution nonsensical. Director David Fincher confirmed this was a mistake in recreating the San Francisco Chronicle office era.
Herb Kane Mention Oversight
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(02:31:44)
  • Key Takeaway: The Zodiac killer mentioned Herb Kane in an actual letter, an important detail missed by the characters arguing about his readership.
  • Summary: A listener’s mother-in-law shouted out that ‘Everybody read Herb Kane’ during a scene where Gray Smith’s notoriety was discussed. The Zodiac killer did, in fact, mention Herb Kane in one of his letters, making the character’s dismissal of him an oversight by Chris Austin.
Unanswerable Questions and Obsession
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(02:32:17)
  • Key Takeaway: A key question raised was why cops in serial killer narratives often fail to realize the killer initially targets someone they know, a revelation that typically comes late in the film.
  • Summary: The hosts discussed whether they would throw their lives away to explore a non-work-related obsession like Robert Graysmith did with the Zodiac case. The question was posed whether Graysmith’s obsession eventually became motivated by the potential to make money from the story.
Handwriting Expert Qualifications
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(02:35:23)
  • Key Takeaway: The qualifications for a 1970s handwriting expert seemed vague, relying heavily on subjective analysis like stroke count and the expert’s demeanor.
  • Summary: The segment questioned the ease of being a handwriting expert in the 1970s, noting the expert in the film appeared to rely on a magnifying glass and whiskey. The discussion touched on the artistry in individual handwriting styles, exemplified by a host’s young daughter developing her own letter-drawing patterns.
Memorabilia and Life Lessons
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(02:37:46)
  • Key Takeaway: The most desired piece of memorabilia from Zodiac would be an original letter or Graysmith’s scrapbook, while the least desired item is the wooden dildo.
  • Summary: The ‘I am not Paul Avery’ button was cited as a good piece of memorabilia, contrasting with the unwanted wooden dildo artifact. The best life lesson from the movie was attributed to the idea that movies are not finished, but abandoned, reflecting the ongoing nature of the Zodiac investigation.
Best Double Feature Pairing
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(02:39:13)
  • Key Takeaway: Dirty Harry serves as the exciting, solved version of the Zodiac story, making it the perfect double feature contrast to the unsolvable reality presented in Zodiac.
  • Summary: The hosts agreed on Dirty Harry as the ideal double feature, noting how the film borrowed heavily from the Zodiac case, particularly with the Scorpio killer. Mark Ruffalo’s performance as Toski was noted for sounding more like Clint Eastwood than the actual detective, who spoke more like a typical detective.
Film Structure and Rewatchability
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(02:41:36)
  • Key Takeaway: The dense, short-scene cutting style of Zodiac makes it resemble prestige television more than a typical rewatchable film, which usually relies on longer, recognizable peaks.
  • Summary: The film’s continued consumption on streaming platforms suggests its success as a rewatchable, despite its length. The cutting style was compared to later period Nolan films like Oppenheimer, featuring important scenes lasting only 30 seconds.
Family Viewing and Historical Details
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(02:43:36)
  • Key Takeaway: Zodiac functions as a generational connector, prompting discussions about 1970s California life between older and younger viewers, and it is less gory than expected.
  • Summary: One host found the movie to be a decent family watch, sparking conversations with parents about life in the 70s and 80s. The deaths in the film are not sensationalized, and the hosts noted the historical accuracy of the police telephone booths, which disappeared with the advent of cell phones.
Future Rewatchables and Netflix
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(02:46:06)
  • Key Takeaway: The Rewatchables podcast is moving its video content exclusively to Netflix, with upcoming films including Wild Things, Ace Ventura, and potentially a Michael Mann film like Black Hat.
  • Summary: The hosts confirmed the podcast’s video episodes would no longer be on YouTube but would be available on Netflix, where listeners can add the podcast to their watchlist. Castaway is slated for a non-solo revisit, and there are rumors of a live recording after the Oscars.