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[00:00:01.440 --> 00:00:05.440] Ever whispered, maybe I could create an online course someday?
[00:00:05.440 --> 00:00:10.240] And then you thought, nope, too overwhelming, too risky, and way too much tech.
[00:00:10.240 --> 00:00:11.840] That's you, I get it.
[00:00:11.840 --> 00:00:18.160] When I started, I had no clue where to begin, no extra hours, and no idea if anyone would buy.
[00:00:18.160 --> 00:00:20.400] Then I met Amy Porterfield.
[00:00:20.400 --> 00:00:27.120] She gave me a clear, doable path, and that someday dream became a profitable, sustainable part of my business.
[00:00:27.120 --> 00:00:31.600] Now I've built multiple online courses that earn while I live my life.
[00:00:31.600 --> 00:00:37.680] That's why I'm so excited to tell you about Course Confident, a live boot camp with Amy herself.
[00:00:37.680 --> 00:00:40.560] Four live trainings with one clear outcome.
[00:00:40.560 --> 00:00:49.360] Nail your profitable course topic, choose your type and price with confidence, and learn how to attract your future students without being glued to your screen.
[00:00:49.360 --> 00:00:52.240] You'll be in a private-driven community that gets it.
[00:00:52.240 --> 00:01:02.000] The doubts, the wins, the why is this so hard moments, the accountability, ideas, and encouragement you need to move from thinking about it to doing it.
[00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:05.360] Join through jennakutcher.com forward slash bootcamp.
[00:01:05.360 --> 00:01:15.120] And when you join, you'll also get my beginner-friendly mini course, The Pinterest Kickstart, which is your quick start guide to growing your audience and email list before you even launch.
[00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:17.920] $27 of value, yours free.
[00:01:17.920 --> 00:01:24.960] If you want more freedom, more alignment, and income you don't have to chase daily, this is your next right step.
[00:01:24.960 --> 00:01:26.720] We start September 11th.
[00:01:26.720 --> 00:01:31.600] Save your spot today at jennakutcher.com forward slash bootcamp.
[00:01:35.440 --> 00:01:38.960] Huge savings on Dell AI PCs are here.
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[00:02:03.480 --> 00:02:11.560] It's like having a personal assistant built right into your PC to cover the menial tasks so that you can focus on what matters.
[00:02:11.560 --> 00:02:15.000] That's the power of Dell AI with Intel Inside.
[00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:25.560] With deals on Dell AI PCs like the Dell 16 Plus starting at $749.99, it is the perfect time to refresh your tech and take back your time.
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[00:02:38.440 --> 00:02:42.040] Have you ever wondered why it feels harder to build a business as a woman?
[00:02:42.040 --> 00:02:45.640] Well, it's not just you, and Anna Gifty has the stats to prove it.
[00:02:45.640 --> 00:02:50.920] This conversation will explain exactly why it feels that way and what we can do about it.
[00:02:51.560 --> 00:02:55.080] I'm Jenna Kutcher, your host of the Goldigger podcast.
[00:02:55.080 --> 00:03:01.960] I escaped the corporate world at the age of 23 with nothing more than a $300 camera from Craigslist and a dream.
[00:03:01.960 --> 00:03:10.120] Now I'm running a seven-figure online business that feels even better than it looks all from my house in small town, Minnesota with my family.
[00:03:10.120 --> 00:03:13.000] Here, we value time as our currency.
[00:03:13.000 --> 00:03:20.360] We mix the woo and the work, and we are in the pursuit of building businesses that give us the freedom to live lives that we love.
[00:03:20.360 --> 00:03:25.640] I've always loved turning big goals into reality, and I'm here to help you do the same.
[00:03:25.640 --> 00:03:27.880] This isn't just a peek behind the curtain.
[00:03:27.880 --> 00:03:31.560] Come along with me and my guests as we tear the whole curtain down.
[00:03:31.560 --> 00:03:39.000] Every week, we tackle practical, no-fluff marketing strategies and host honest discussions on what works and what doesn't.
[00:03:39.000 --> 00:03:44.960] Join me and my expert guests for actionable insights to help you grow your dream business with confidence.
[00:03:44.600 --> 00:03:49.120] Pull up a seat and get ready to be challenged, inspired, and empowered.
[00:03:49.440 --> 00:03:52.480] This is the Gold Digger podcast.
[00:03:53.440 --> 00:03:57.920] Ever feel like success seems a little more expensive for you than it does for everyone else?
[00:03:57.920 --> 00:03:59.360] Like you're doing everything right.
[00:03:59.360 --> 00:04:04.400] You're building the business, juggling the roles, playing the game, and yet you're still coming up short?
[00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:06.160] Well, that's not in your head.
[00:04:06.160 --> 00:04:07.360] It's actually real.
[00:04:07.360 --> 00:04:10.320] And today's guest, Anna Gifty, is here to prove it.
[00:04:10.320 --> 00:04:22.480] Anna is a Harvard-trained economist and the author of The Double Tax, a bold new book that breaks down the invisible costs women, especially women of color, pay just to participate in society.
[00:04:22.480 --> 00:04:26.080] But what makes this conversation essential for entrepreneurs?
[00:04:26.080 --> 00:04:34.160] Well, Anna shows how these taxes sneak into your business, your brand, your funding, your time, and what you can do to push back.
[00:04:34.160 --> 00:04:44.080] From the cost of motherhood to beauty standards in the workplace to why generational wealth building still feels out of reach, this episode is a masterclass in economic empowerment.
[00:04:44.080 --> 00:04:46.720] And oh my gosh, Anna is giving it.
[00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:48.640] This is not just theory.
[00:04:48.640 --> 00:04:52.800] Anna actually gives you the tactical tools to change things.
[00:04:52.800 --> 00:05:01.360] If you are building a business and wondering why it still feels this hard or you want to be a part of rewriting the rules, this conversation is your permission slip.
[00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:04.320] Anna Gifty, here's the warmest welcome.
[00:05:04.320 --> 00:05:07.280] Welcome to the Gold Digger podcast.
[00:05:07.600 --> 00:05:15.360] Anna, you studied public policy and economics at Harvard, so you are literally the perfect person for me to ask this question.
[00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:23.120] What is one hidden double tax that entrepreneurs listening are likely paying without even realizing it?
[00:05:23.120 --> 00:05:23.720] Yes.
[00:05:23.360 --> 00:05:27.040] So, so first of all, thank you so much for having me on this podcast.
[00:05:27.040 --> 00:05:34.840] I'm extremely honored to be in community with you, in sisterhood with you, and just talking about the costs that women face.
[00:05:35.000 --> 00:05:38.200] And so, let's maybe kind of level set for a second.
[00:05:38.200 --> 00:05:39.960] What is the double tax, right?
[00:05:39.960 --> 00:05:46.040] So, the double tax is the compounded cost of racism and sexism, right?
[00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:56.280] So, this idea that there's costs that come from being a woman, there's costs that come from being a racial minority, and then there's women who have those experiences simultaneously.
[00:05:56.280 --> 00:06:05.000] And so, I want to go ahead and address what you said first and foremost, which is how do we think about a hidden cost that affects entrepreneurs?
[00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:09.640] And one thing that we know about business owners is that we need capital, right?
[00:06:09.640 --> 00:06:13.000] In order to build a business, you need money.
[00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:25.000] And so, what we have seen in the research is that the folks who make decisions about who gets money is oftentimes reflective of what the double tax ultimately gets at.
[00:06:25.000 --> 00:06:31.080] So, I'm going to throw some numbers at you because, you know, I'm a numbers gal and I think that facts are important.
[00:06:31.080 --> 00:06:37.880] And so, according to Forbes, we know that white men make up 30% of our national population, right?
[00:06:38.200 --> 00:06:43.960] But they make up 58% of venture capitalist investors.
[00:06:43.960 --> 00:06:48.840] So, let me translate that for folks who might not be familiar with sort of finance speak.
[00:06:48.840 --> 00:06:58.600] This idea of the individuals who actually decide whether or not you get those dollars into your business are disproportionately white and disproportionately male, right?
[00:06:58.600 --> 00:07:02.320] Now, the other thing that I want to add here, and this is like the first part of the double tax.
[00:07:02.280 --> 00:07:12.440] So, so thinking about sort of gender inequality, white women make up the same amount of individuals who are part of the national population, 30%.
[00:07:12.440 --> 00:07:19.600] However, they make up 11% of the venture capitalist investors, right?
[00:07:19.600 --> 00:07:24.160] The people who decide who gets the dollars sent to your business.
[00:07:24.160 --> 00:07:31.040] So, this idea of whether or not you prioritize a business's offering or product, right?
[00:07:31.040 --> 00:07:35.440] It might be determined by whether or not you see value in it at all.
[00:07:35.440 --> 00:07:38.080] And I think a lot of times people think this stuff is objective.
[00:07:38.080 --> 00:07:46.080] They're like, well, you know, objectively speaking, you know, I'm a man and I must know that, you know, what a woman wants is this and what a woman wants is that.
[00:07:46.080 --> 00:07:47.520] And I'm far away from that.
[00:07:47.520 --> 00:07:50.800] So I can make an objective calculation of what's going on.
[00:07:51.280 --> 00:07:58.880] But the gag of the matter is our lived experiences inform whether or not we place value on certain things.
[00:07:58.880 --> 00:08:23.840] And so if 11% of the venture capitalist investors are white women, that means that things that white women value may not be served, may not be funded, and ultimately may not be produced, which means that there's a huge missing market here that businesses are not even being able to tap into because they can't even get the money to start building products for that market.
[00:08:23.840 --> 00:08:39.920] And then the gag of the matter is the double tax says, well, take gender inequality, add racial inequality, and what we end up with is 7% of venture capital investors are women of color across the board.
[00:08:39.920 --> 00:08:41.040] That's combined.
[00:08:41.040 --> 00:08:42.560] We're talking about Asian women.
[00:08:42.560 --> 00:08:44.080] We're talking about black women.
[00:08:44.080 --> 00:08:47.040] We're talking about Latina women, Native women.
[00:08:47.040 --> 00:08:50.560] In total, we make up seven percent.
[00:08:50.560 --> 00:08:51.680] So, now think about it.
[00:08:51.680 --> 00:09:12.760] If we're missing a chunk of the market for white women, and we then take it to women of color, we're missing another chunk of the market, money is being left on the table, not just by the venture capitalist investors who could be making a buck, but also by those who hopefully will be served by the products that are created by these women entrepreneurs, by these women business owners.
[00:09:12.760 --> 00:09:17.800] And so, that's why it's extremely important to think about how does the double tax show up in business?
[00:09:17.800 --> 00:09:33.720] It shows up in business by the underrepresentation that shows up in who gets capital and why, but also shows up in how that underrepresentation has a domino effect on who gets served and ultimately what gets produced for society.
[00:09:33.720 --> 00:09:34.600] Wow.
[00:09:34.920 --> 00:09:39.720] I mean, I have heard those stats thrown around, like you said.
[00:09:39.720 --> 00:09:44.040] And when it's broken down, you not only think about the top end, right?
[00:09:44.040 --> 00:09:45.480] Who's making the decision?
[00:09:45.480 --> 00:09:50.920] That's right, but you also think about the actual product market and what's even born, right?
[00:09:50.920 --> 00:09:54.120] Like, how is a product in a business born?
[00:09:54.120 --> 00:10:05.000] And it's interesting too, because then it just is that domino effect of like there aren't even products created for people who need them that could be successful businesses.
[00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:08.360] It's like missed opportunities across the board.
[00:10:08.360 --> 00:10:16.520] And one thing I want to give an example for: yeah, is let's think about you know, when you're going into a building, there's steps sometimes, and then there's ramps.
[00:10:16.520 --> 00:10:20.360] Ramps were created with disabled people in mind.
[00:10:20.360 --> 00:10:23.560] But let's say you have a limp in your leg one day.
[00:10:23.560 --> 00:10:26.680] Are you taking the steps or are you taking the ramp?
[00:10:26.680 --> 00:10:36.280] So, this is an example to illustrate that something that was created with certain groups in mind, actually serves everyone at the end of the day.
[00:10:36.280 --> 00:10:55.760] And ultimately, that is the point of the double tax: this idea that if you actually address the benchmark of progress towards women and women who are definitely underserved, you actually end up solving problems for all other people because we are targeting those who are experiencing the most marginalization.
[00:10:56.720 --> 00:11:10.080] I was at lunch the other day with a friend and we got into this discussion about how it's really interesting that oftentimes women are taught to admire and respect men and women, right?
[00:11:10.080 --> 00:11:10.480] Yeah.
[00:11:10.480 --> 00:11:10.960] Yeah.
[00:11:11.280 --> 00:11:16.000] But men are often not taught to respect and admire women.
[00:11:16.320 --> 00:11:19.600] And we were talking about it because it was fascinating.
[00:11:19.600 --> 00:11:24.880] And I see it a lot of times in different business rooms, even a business book.
[00:11:24.880 --> 00:11:28.640] I was listening to a business book the other day, brilliant book, not going to name it.
[00:11:28.640 --> 00:11:31.680] And every example they gave was a white man.
[00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:34.000] And it was just interesting to me.
[00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:37.840] It's like you don't even see the gap, right?
[00:11:38.160 --> 00:11:51.200] And it was just a really interesting discussion that I had with my friend: isn't it fascinating that we don't raise boys to look up to women as leaders and thought leaders and innovators and inventors?
[00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:51.760] Right.
[00:11:51.760 --> 00:11:57.920] And it is the gap is everywhere in funding, in ideology, in admiration.
[00:11:57.920 --> 00:11:59.360] It's just fascinating.
[00:11:59.360 --> 00:12:00.880] How did you start studying this?
[00:12:00.880 --> 00:12:02.480] Like, what was your path?
[00:12:02.480 --> 00:12:03.760] Because you're so passionate.
[00:12:03.760 --> 00:12:04.560] I'm like, tell me more.
[00:12:04.640 --> 00:12:05.520] Thank you so much.
[00:12:05.520 --> 00:12:09.520] Well, I want to address what you said really quickly before I jump into the path.
[00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:17.840] You know, that's kind of why I found it odd when we started hearing conversations about we need more male energy in the workplace.
[00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:23.840] Because as someone who has just written a book about the cost that women face, I said, more male energy.
[00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:25.600] We got enough of that.
[00:12:25.600 --> 00:12:26.640] We got enough of that.
[00:12:26.640 --> 00:12:27.600] You know what I'm saying?
[00:12:27.600 --> 00:12:28.160] Yeah.
[00:12:28.160 --> 00:12:36.440] We know from the stats that the top 10 paying career paths are disproportionately white and male.
[00:12:36.760 --> 00:12:44.680] We're talking at least 52% of the individuals in the top 10 paying career paths are white men.
[00:12:44.680 --> 00:12:59.880] So when I'm looking at, you know, small incremental changes that are happening for women, for women of color, for other groups that are marginalized, my immediate thought is: so, because you had to share a crumb of your success, now everybody's crashing out.
[00:12:59.880 --> 00:13:00.840] That's crazy.
[00:13:00.840 --> 00:13:01.720] You know what I'm saying?
[00:13:01.720 --> 00:13:07.160] So I wanted to just note that I think what you're making a point about is very true.
[00:13:07.160 --> 00:13:09.320] This idea of who's the face of leadership.
[00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:09.880] Yeah.
[00:13:09.880 --> 00:13:15.880] And how does that trickle down to the kind of decisions that we make, not just in our everyday, but across society?
[00:13:15.880 --> 00:13:19.000] So to your point about your question about how did I get into this?
[00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:19.560] Yeah.
[00:13:19.880 --> 00:13:24.360] So I'm going to take it back a little bit, if you don't mind, if you'll indolge me.
[00:13:24.360 --> 00:13:24.760] Yeah.
[00:13:24.760 --> 00:13:25.000] Yeah.
[00:13:25.560 --> 00:13:33.800] So I grew up in, you know, low-income housing, kind of like a rent-stabilized neighborhood in Maryland, but I was in the wealthiest county, right?
[00:13:33.800 --> 00:13:36.520] So it's like low-income housing, wealthiest county.
[00:13:36.520 --> 00:13:39.240] And this meant that I was eligible for Head Start.
[00:13:39.240 --> 00:13:43.800] So for those who don't know, Head Start is a program for low-income families, children.
[00:13:43.800 --> 00:13:47.240] It provides like pre-K, kindergarten preparation, et cetera, et cetera.
[00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:52.040] And Opportunity of a Lifetime started knocking on our doorstep shortly after.
[00:13:52.040 --> 00:14:02.040] So right around the time I was getting ready to graduate, the county instructed a new private school that was being built that they had to award a single full scholarship to a student at Head Start.
[00:14:02.040 --> 00:14:03.320] There was an interview process.
[00:14:03.320 --> 00:14:10.600] They met with the families, they met with the children, and my family and I were selected for that full scholarship.
[00:14:10.600 --> 00:14:29.680] What that meant is that I had the opportunity to go from a very familiar background of, you know, people are dealing with the same problems, people are dealing with the same economic reality to a completely new experience where I heard the word cul-de-sac for the first time.
[00:14:29.680 --> 00:14:36.480] I saw a lot of folks, right, with the playgrounds and the play sets that I saw on TV in their own backyard.
[00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:43.680] This idea of people having soccer practice and being able to go on vacation, that was very foreign to me.
[00:14:43.920 --> 00:14:56.720] And so, from a very, very young age, it became very clear that, you know, depending on who you are and depending on where you come from, you might have a very different experience with the way that you lead your life.
[00:14:56.720 --> 00:15:02.160] And a lot of that is heavily influenced by what you have economic access to, right?
[00:15:02.160 --> 00:15:08.800] You know, my parents were working multiple jobs, whereas my classmates' parents might have had one really well-paying job.
[00:15:08.800 --> 00:15:23.920] And understanding that these differences make a huge impact on the children of the folks who are, you know, trying to make a living and make a life kind of became salient to me almost immediately when I was younger.
[00:15:23.920 --> 00:15:28.400] And of course, as I went through my experience, I still stayed in these private schools.
[00:15:28.400 --> 00:15:29.920] The kids just got richer.
[00:15:29.920 --> 00:15:38.880] I remember there was a kid that rented out a clubhouse at the Ravens Stadium, the Baltimore Ravens Stadium, and we had access to the stadium.
[00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:42.640] And it was a level of wealth that I hadn't comprehended.
[00:15:42.640 --> 00:15:48.880] I did not know that we could just walk into a football stadium for somebody's birthday party.
[00:15:48.880 --> 00:15:50.800] My family certainly couldn't do that.
[00:15:50.800 --> 00:15:53.360] And there's folks in my community that couldn't do that.
[00:15:53.360 --> 00:16:05.640] And then, of course, now being at Harvard, seeing that wealth even to another level where people are taking private jets to other countries for the weekend and coming back and doing classes on Monday.
[00:16:05.960 --> 00:16:24.120] So I think for me, the inequality that I've witnessed both here in the States, but also in Ghana, where I'm from, kind of made it clear to me that if we want a world that's more fair, if we want a world that's more equal, we have to be on the same page about the facts.
[00:16:24.120 --> 00:16:27.880] And a lot of times these facts are scattered, right?
[00:16:27.880 --> 00:16:31.960] So as an academic, it's my task to ask and answer questions.
[00:16:31.960 --> 00:16:37.160] So I'm on a treasure hunt for the answers to the questions that I have about inequality.
[00:16:37.160 --> 00:16:49.800] But I also recognize that there are people in my life, people in your life, that deal with inequality every day, but they don't have the luxury of time to look for the answers for why the inequality that they're facing is happening to them.
[00:16:49.800 --> 00:16:53.640] But also, how do they begin to address things that are unequal to them?
[00:16:53.640 --> 00:17:08.360] And so for me, this book really was born out of how do we bring all of the information that we know into the forefront, into one place, so that people have one place that they can refer to and say, actually, that is my experience.
[00:17:08.360 --> 00:17:10.040] And here's the data to back that up.
[00:17:10.040 --> 00:17:12.200] Here's what we need to do to move things forward.
[00:17:12.200 --> 00:17:13.720] Hey, I'm about to have a kid.
[00:17:13.720 --> 00:17:15.240] Have we thought about a paid family leave?
[00:17:15.240 --> 00:17:18.840] I read about it in the double tax that it does this X, Y, and Z.
[00:17:18.840 --> 00:17:31.160] So giving people the tools at their doorstep to advocate for themselves, to advocate against inequality, and to push for things that are more equal to them and that helps their life get much better.
[00:17:31.800 --> 00:17:35.640] That is, I mean, it's just amazing and incredible.
[00:17:35.640 --> 00:17:38.280] I feel like you were a kid with big questions.
[00:17:38.280 --> 00:17:45.280] Were you like that kid that was like, the other day, my six-year-old was like, so, like, how do the clouds get?
[00:17:45.600 --> 00:17:47.040] I was like, that's a dad question.
[00:17:47.040 --> 00:17:52.720] Like, but I can imagine you as a really curious child.
[00:17:52.720 --> 00:18:02.080] And I just, I don't know, I feel like you still have that energy about you, which I love because it's pushing you to find the answers to those big questions.
[00:18:02.080 --> 00:18:03.040] That's right.
[00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:07.760] Let's pause here to thank our sponsors who make these impactful conversations possible.
[00:18:07.760 --> 00:18:13.920] Now, while you wait, take a moment and ask yourself: what systems might you be navigating that weren't built with you in mind?
[00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:18.800] When we come back, Anna's going to share what we aren't being told about wealth building that we need to know.
[00:18:18.800 --> 00:18:20.160] It is so juicy.
[00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:23.120] So stay with me and we'll be right back.
[00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:26.880] This message is sponsored by Green Light.
[00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:30.800] My six-year-old woke up this morning asking if she could do chores to earn money.
[00:18:30.800 --> 00:18:31.440] Why?
[00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:35.680] Because she read a fancy Nancy book where Nancy worked to buy fabulous shoes.
[00:18:35.680 --> 00:18:41.120] And suddenly, my daughter wanted to experience the same pride of buying something special with her own money.
[00:18:41.120 --> 00:18:47.200] But here's what hit me: I had no good way to help her actually see and feel her money growing.
[00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:48.640] Cash gets lost.
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[00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:56.600] Let's talk about capital because I think this is really interesting.
[00:20:56.600 --> 00:20:59.880] One of my friends, Arlen Hamilton, is amazing.
[00:20:59.880 --> 00:21:00.920] She's amazing.
[00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:02.200] She's amazing.
[00:21:02.200 --> 00:21:05.400] And she has just been doing such big things with Backstage Capital.
[00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:06.200] I love it.
[00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:13.160] And so I feel like I've learned so much from her about this, but I want to talk about like access to capital because it's a huge challenge.
[00:21:13.160 --> 00:21:14.120] We've touched on it.
[00:21:14.360 --> 00:21:18.320] But what do we need to know about wealth building that we're not being told?
[00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:26.960] Like, how does this actually impact a listener of the show who is trying to start a business or wants to start a business or sees a friend struggling to start their business?
[00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:28.400] What is that about?
[00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:29.920] So I love this question.
[00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:31.360] I think it's such an important question.
[00:21:31.360 --> 00:21:33.520] So thank you so much for asking it.
[00:21:33.520 --> 00:21:42.560] What we're not really having an honest conversation about when it comes to wealth building is that people have different wells of wealth that they're pulling from.
[00:21:42.560 --> 00:21:43.840] So what do I mean by that?
[00:21:43.840 --> 00:21:50.560] I mean that my well of wealth that I can pull from is different from your well of wealth that you can pull from.
[00:21:50.560 --> 00:21:52.720] And of course, like I said, I'm a numbers person.
[00:21:52.720 --> 00:22:01.280] So I'm going to go ahead and lay out some numbers and then I'm going to connect it to an actual visual of what this means.
[00:22:01.280 --> 00:22:03.680] So according to the Federal Reserve Bank of St.
[00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:10.880] Louis, okay, this is part of our economic ecosystem that makes sure that our economy is healthy.
[00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:16.720] What they found in 2022 is that for every dollar of wealth a white guy has, right?
[00:22:16.720 --> 00:22:18.400] And by the way, we don't hate white guys here.
[00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:20.880] We're just, you guys have the benchmark right now.
[00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:23.600] So we're comparing everything to you.
[00:22:23.600 --> 00:22:26.640] White women have 78 cents.
[00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:27.840] Huge drop.
[00:22:28.080 --> 00:22:32.800] We're talking, you know, around, you know, 22 cents drop.
[00:22:32.800 --> 00:22:35.920] Hispanic women have 14 cents.
[00:22:36.880 --> 00:22:40.640] Black women have eight cents.
[00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:41.280] Okay.
[00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:53.520] So when we talk about different wells of wealth that people can pull from, right, when they're starting their business, when they're starting a venture, when they're even starting a nonprofit, right?
[00:22:53.520 --> 00:23:03.560] There's certain industries where if you don't have a well of wealth to pull from that is deep and expansive, you can't survive, right?
[00:23:03.560 --> 00:23:04.680] Like in life.
[00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:05.240] Good luck.
[00:23:05.240 --> 00:23:05.640] Yep.
[00:23:05.640 --> 00:23:07.240] Good luck, right?
[00:23:07.800 --> 00:23:13.640] And so the visual I want to kind of give people here is: let's say that we're on a racetrack, okay?
[00:23:13.640 --> 00:23:18.520] We're on a racetrack before the gun is fired, and the guy says, Ready, set, go.
[00:23:18.520 --> 00:23:19.800] He says, Hold on.
[00:23:19.800 --> 00:23:24.760] I want lanes two, three, and five to move up two steps.
[00:23:25.080 --> 00:23:28.840] I want lane five to move up an additional five steps.
[00:23:28.840 --> 00:23:33.640] Lane six, move up two more steps, right?
[00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:38.200] And then right before he says that, he said, okay, let's let the race begin.
[00:23:38.200 --> 00:23:40.200] Ready, set, go.
[00:23:40.200 --> 00:23:42.200] Tell me who's going to win that.
[00:23:42.200 --> 00:23:45.000] The person who's closer to the finish line.
[00:23:45.320 --> 00:23:56.520] And that is the point around wealth building: this idea that there's people who are closer to wells of wealth, to opportunities to build wealth than other people.
[00:23:56.840 --> 00:24:00.920] And unfortunately, that is tied up in the history of this country.
[00:24:01.240 --> 00:24:01.640] Right?
[00:24:01.640 --> 00:24:07.400] One of my most favorite pieces of research that's come out in the last five years is by a dear friend, Dr.
[00:24:07.560 --> 00:24:10.920] Laura Derencourt, and her wonderful co-authors.
[00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:14.680] And they call this paper the wealth of two nations.
[00:24:14.680 --> 00:24:25.000] Essentially, what they do is they document what we call the racial wealth gap, the difference in wealth between black folks and white folks from 1860.
[00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:30.680] That predates, by the way, yeah, the abolition of slavery all the way to 2020.
[00:24:30.680 --> 00:24:33.400] So right before the COVID pandemic.
[00:24:33.400 --> 00:24:46.880] And essentially, what they find is that in 1860, the wealth ratio, how many dollars of wealth white folks have to how many dollars of wealth black folks have, was nearly 60 to one.
[00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:49.520] What does that mean, y'all?
[00:24:49.520 --> 00:24:57.520] It means that for every dollar of wealth white folks had, black folks had almost two cents.
[00:24:57.840 --> 00:24:58.880] Almost two cents.
[00:24:58.880 --> 00:25:02.240] Now, I just told you in 2022 numbers, did I not?
[00:25:02.560 --> 00:25:04.160] Who was closer to that?
[00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:05.840] Black women.
[00:25:05.840 --> 00:25:12.240] They've only seen an increase by about six cents since then.
[00:25:13.120 --> 00:25:13.680] Right?
[00:25:13.680 --> 00:25:22.480] It's progress, but like, we're talking hundreds of years, right?
[00:25:22.800 --> 00:25:31.600] And so then the question of how does that trickle into other parts of your entrepreneurial journey, your journey as a business person?
[00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:37.760] Well, if you don't have a lot of capital to start with, capital begets capital.
[00:25:38.080 --> 00:25:43.760] How then can you invest zero dollars to make more money, right?
[00:25:44.080 --> 00:25:55.440] And what they find in their paper is that what has kept the racial wealth gap fixed at about six to one is that capital gains entered the picture.
[00:25:55.440 --> 00:26:00.080] This idea of people making money off of stocks, passive income off of investments.
[00:26:00.080 --> 00:26:01.920] I remember I spoke to a dear friend of mine.
[00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:04.160] I said, you know, what do you do now that you're retired?
[00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:07.360] And he said, I just manage investments.
[00:26:07.680 --> 00:26:09.280] And I said, I love that for you.
[00:26:09.280 --> 00:26:09.840] Yeah.
[00:26:09.840 --> 00:26:14.080] But the gag of the matter is women in general are not positioned to do that.
[00:26:14.080 --> 00:26:14.640] Yeah.
[00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:23.760] And women of color, especially black women, are definitely not positioned to do that because of the historical nature of wealth building opportunities in this country.
[00:26:23.760 --> 00:26:29.280] A lot of folks will say things like buying property, buying homes, if we're talking about, you know, personal wealth.
[00:26:29.280 --> 00:26:40.440] But we also know that the laws that have come into place that allow women to actually be active participants in society when it comes to wealth building, we're talking 50, 60 years old.
[00:26:41.080 --> 00:26:42.600] They just got here.
[00:26:42.600 --> 00:26:48.840] So this idea that, you know, there's certain people who have had hundreds of years in terms of a head start.
[00:26:48.840 --> 00:26:52.120] And now certain people are now getting their footing.
[00:26:52.120 --> 00:26:58.680] That is 100% going to impact whether you can get capital, whether you can be trusted with capital, right?
[00:26:58.680 --> 00:27:06.200] There's people who have years on you that have shown time and time that they can invest the capital and make it, make money back.
[00:27:06.200 --> 00:27:13.080] And it also means that your proximity to capital is still very limited, right?
[00:27:13.080 --> 00:27:21.640] And so I think there's a lot of people who beat themselves up of, oh my gosh, why am I not able to, you know, make a million dollars in revenue or have $100,000 in profit?
[00:27:21.640 --> 00:27:25.800] Perhaps it's because of the well of wealth that you even get to pull from.
[00:27:26.120 --> 00:27:33.160] Folks forget like folks like Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates have parents who had wealth.
[00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:39.400] That is what allowed them to take time from their jobs and build their business.
[00:27:39.960 --> 00:27:43.880] So the antidote to that, in my opinion, is to get in community.
[00:27:43.880 --> 00:27:49.160] If you can't get individual wealth to push you forward, get collective wealth.
[00:27:49.160 --> 00:27:50.840] Start pushing into that.
[00:27:51.480 --> 00:27:53.080] Pool resources.
[00:27:53.080 --> 00:27:57.320] Use that as a catalyst because no one is self-made here.
[00:27:57.320 --> 00:28:02.520] And that's probably going to be the last thing I mentioned on our podcast today, but no one is self-made.
[00:28:02.520 --> 00:28:05.000] Everyone started from something.
[00:28:05.320 --> 00:28:11.320] So if you feel like you have nothing to start from, try to link arms with somebody who might and move things forward.
[00:28:11.320 --> 00:28:11.960] Yeah.
[00:28:11.960 --> 00:28:12.760] I love that.
[00:28:12.760 --> 00:28:19.200] And I think there are some amazing pioneers out there who are helping that process.
[00:28:14.840 --> 00:28:19.680] Absolutely.
[00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:27.040] Like ushering it in with love and resources, which is exactly what we need.
[00:28:27.040 --> 00:28:42.800] You kind of touched on this, and I want to go even deeper on it because one thing that I love that you're passionate about is this role of caregiving and how, beyond capital, caregiving also disproportionately impacts women's earning potential.
[00:28:42.800 --> 00:28:45.520] And so, you know, I'm a mom, I'm juggling motherhood.
[00:28:45.520 --> 00:28:51.040] I have a lot of support with my sweet husband, but a lot of business owners are juggling all the things, right?
[00:28:51.040 --> 00:28:55.200] So, motherhood, their caregivers for their elders, I mean, all different things.
[00:28:55.200 --> 00:29:02.720] So, what are some ways that people could set realistic boundaries that actually protect their time and income?
[00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:08.720] Because, again, this is another way that the race car stays back while other cars move forward, right?
[00:29:08.720 --> 00:29:09.360] That's right.
[00:29:09.680 --> 00:29:13.440] So, let's maybe contextualize motherhood for a second.
[00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:16.640] Yeah, I'm not a mom, but I am friends with a mom.
[00:29:16.640 --> 00:29:17.920] I'm talking to a mom.
[00:29:17.920 --> 00:29:18.960] I have a mom.
[00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:20.400] My sister's a mom.
[00:29:20.720 --> 00:29:25.280] And I want to first and foremost acknowledge that motherhood is really, really hard.
[00:29:25.600 --> 00:29:28.800] It's harder than anybody is willing to say out loud.
[00:29:28.800 --> 00:29:31.840] I'm going to say it out loud to all of the listeners.
[00:29:32.240 --> 00:29:46.880] If you're a mom, this is me applauding you because it is a task, right, that a society puts on women and then simultaneously punishes women for.
[00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:48.240] Yes, yes.
[00:29:48.560 --> 00:29:57.840] And so, this idea that, you know, I say it like this: women are punished for choosing motherhood and also for not choosing it, right?
[00:29:58.160 --> 00:30:03.320] And this idea of protecting your time as a mother, it's a real thing.
[00:29:59.600 --> 00:30:09.160] So, if you feel like motherhood is extremely demanding on your time, you're not crazy.
[00:30:09.160 --> 00:30:14.680] There is evidence that folks have their days disrupted, right?
[00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:21.640] Because you're mothering and you get punished in the workplace because you're running late to work, right?
[00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:29.160] And if you decide to become a mom, you're paid less, you're promoted less, you're hired less.
[00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:46.680] And so, I just wanted to make room a little bit before we get into the solutions of the fact that the motherhood is so hard, and you all are doing an exceptional job of just navigating it in a society that is not graceful towards y'all.
[00:30:46.680 --> 00:30:51.960] And so, I just wanted to make space for that before I talk a little bit about how do we protect our time.
[00:30:51.960 --> 00:30:54.920] I think one of the things that, you know, I'm a policy person, right?
[00:30:54.920 --> 00:30:58.040] So, I study economics and policy at the Harvard Kennedy School.
[00:30:58.040 --> 00:31:03.640] And so, I'm going to talk about policy for a second and policies that I think you really should push for.
[00:31:03.640 --> 00:31:11.480] And then, I also want to talk a little bit about, you know, how you practically individually in your life and alongside your friends can also protect your time.
[00:31:11.480 --> 00:31:20.360] The policy that doesn't exist, that should exist, and it exists across like a bunch of other countries, is paid family leave.
[00:31:20.680 --> 00:31:22.120] We need it.
[00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:25.320] We've been needed it, okay?
[00:31:25.880 --> 00:31:36.920] Paid family leave says you have a child, you have an elderly person or someone you love that is sick or needs to be taken care of, you get paid, right?
[00:31:36.920 --> 00:31:43.560] You don't lose income from being a good human to your loved ones, right?
[00:31:43.800 --> 00:31:53.600] And so, paid family leave is something that is not federal, so that means that you know, across the government, they don't have to do it.
[00:31:53.600 --> 00:32:00.400] They have something called FMLA, which is this idea of, you know, you're off for a couple weeks.
[00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:03.680] It's like, usually like, you can let me know, like maybe like eight weeks or so.
[00:32:03.680 --> 00:32:06.960] I might be wrong about that number, but you're not paid.
[00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:07.440] Yep.
[00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:08.720] I think it's up to 12.
[00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:12.560] At least it was when I was in corporate, but I'm not sure if it's still up to 12.
[00:32:12.560 --> 00:32:13.680] You're exactly correct.
[00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:14.480] Yep.
[00:32:15.120 --> 00:32:23.840] This idea of paid family leave oftentimes varies from state to state, sometimes from business to business.
[00:32:23.840 --> 00:32:31.680] So here's how you protect your time: you push for that policy wherever you are, even if you decide that you don't want kids.
[00:32:31.680 --> 00:32:39.760] Because ultimately, paid family leave will translate to when your parents are aging or when you have family members aging.
[00:32:39.760 --> 00:32:47.840] If you decide to have a child, or even if you don't decide to have a child, that's something that could be, you know, eventually redeemed in other ways.
[00:32:47.840 --> 00:32:55.200] But ultimately, paid family leave protects your time and protects your income.
[00:32:55.200 --> 00:33:09.360] And so, this idea of that not existing anywhere across the board, like being mandated specifically, because it does exist, but it varies in time, it varies in how much of your income you get, et cetera.
[00:33:09.360 --> 00:33:10.320] That's a problem.
[00:33:10.320 --> 00:33:22.000] And so, pushing for that policy and who you vote for and what local leaders you elect and what policies in your workforce that you actually push for, that is critical.
[00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:23.760] So, that's the first thing I wanted to say.
[00:33:23.760 --> 00:33:29.200] The second thing I wanted to say is that there's also something called the child tax credit.
[00:33:29.200 --> 00:33:31.240] So, we're now talking about protecting your income.
[00:33:31.880 --> 00:33:39.480] So the child tax credit, depending on how much you make, you can get up to $2,000 per child.
[00:33:39.480 --> 00:33:43.800] And there are some other states that will even add on to that, right?
[00:33:43.800 --> 00:33:47.960] So this is part of an incentive for people to have kids, of course.
[00:33:47.960 --> 00:33:52.680] But in other countries, this is actually just part of the national policy.
[00:33:52.680 --> 00:33:57.560] If you decide to have kids, the government will give you money to help raise those kids.
[00:33:58.440 --> 00:33:58.920] Right?
[00:33:59.240 --> 00:34:06.200] So we're talking about income being protected here because I don't know if people know this.
[00:34:06.520 --> 00:34:10.040] Childcare is wildly.
[00:34:10.280 --> 00:34:12.120] So I was like, $2,000 does not go far.
[00:34:12.840 --> 00:34:15.080] It's even in a grocery bill, you know?
[00:34:15.080 --> 00:34:16.200] It's crazy.
[00:34:16.200 --> 00:34:17.320] It's great.
[00:34:17.320 --> 00:34:27.960] So when I was looking at the child care numbers, I think the numbers vary between like, I want to say it's at least, it can be up to a third of your income, is what I'll say.
[00:34:28.280 --> 00:34:28.840] Yeah.
[00:34:29.480 --> 00:34:32.040] And that's the base quality.
[00:34:32.040 --> 00:34:37.560] So if you want like really good quality child care, we're talking upwards of 40% of your income.
[00:34:37.560 --> 00:34:40.840] We know that for a lot of single mothers, this eats up their income.
[00:34:40.840 --> 00:34:47.160] For partners of, you know, people who are partnered, for women, it eats up their income a substantial amount.
[00:34:47.160 --> 00:34:51.240] And of course, that varies depending on race and class.
[00:34:51.560 --> 00:35:00.680] But I think what people need to realize is you need to vote for individuals who are going to push for something like the child tax credit.
[00:35:00.680 --> 00:35:07.480] You need to ensure with your community how you can collectively come together to help each other out.
[00:35:07.480 --> 00:35:10.360] Let me maybe share a personal story here.
[00:35:10.360 --> 00:35:17.040] In Ghana, where I'm from, when we say it takes a village, we literally mean that.
[00:35:13.720 --> 00:35:22.000] So, I think a lot of times, you know, in Western countries, there's a lot of emphasis on the individual.
[00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:25.280] You know, as an individual household, I'm taking care of my kid and this is my kid.
[00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:26.320] I understand.
[00:35:26.640 --> 00:35:41.040] But if you go into other parts of the world amongst the global majority, it's aunties, it's uncles, it's neighbors, it's sometimes religious leaders, depending on how involved you are with a particular religion, right?
[00:35:41.600 --> 00:35:43.600] It's older kids.
[00:35:43.600 --> 00:35:44.400] Yep.
[00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:47.200] And this kind of translated even when I was growing up.
[00:35:47.200 --> 00:35:50.000] My parents would drop me off at aunties and uncles' houses.
[00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:51.120] They would feed me.
[00:35:51.120 --> 00:35:57.440] They provided free child care because they knew that if they were in a similar situation, they could do the same.
[00:35:58.240 --> 00:36:09.200] I think another way to protect your time and your income is to get in community with other women who are also business owners.
[00:36:09.520 --> 00:36:25.600] And to say, how do we share this responsibility of not just being business owners that understand what revenue is, what capital is, et cetera, but also understand the demands of motherhood as we're navigating the business landscape.
[00:36:25.920 --> 00:36:37.680] So I would say those are some things practically, both from a policy standpoint, but also from an individual standpoint, that I believe can really help people protect their income and protect their time.
[00:36:37.680 --> 00:36:40.400] Yeah, I think it's so powerful.
[00:36:40.400 --> 00:36:46.160] And my dream is for people to get back into community.
[00:36:46.160 --> 00:36:52.640] I feel like we have gotten to be so separate that it is like we're all on these little islands.
[00:36:52.640 --> 00:36:54.480] And I don't think that's how it's meant to be.
[00:36:54.480 --> 00:36:56.240] I don't think motherhood is meant to be that way.
[00:36:56.240 --> 00:36:59.120] I don't think entrepreneurship is meant to be that way.
[00:36:59.120 --> 00:37:06.760] So I love that example because it's when you see it in motion and what it really represents.
[00:37:06.760 --> 00:37:07.160] Yes.
[00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:10.760] I believe that's how humans are meant to do life.
[00:37:10.760 --> 00:37:12.680] It's like together, right?
[00:37:12.680 --> 00:37:13.240] Together.
[00:37:13.480 --> 00:37:13.800] Exactly.
[00:37:14.440 --> 00:37:17.720] The collective is always more powerful than the individual.
[00:37:17.720 --> 00:37:24.680] And one African proverb that I know off the top of my head is they say that if you want to go fast, you go alone.
[00:37:24.680 --> 00:37:27.640] But if you want to go far, you go together.
[00:37:27.640 --> 00:37:35.320] And the intuition behind that is other people in the group might have a better way to get to the destination that you're trying to get to.
[00:37:35.320 --> 00:37:42.840] So having that wisdom around you, having that support around you, may get you further than you even thought was possible.
[00:37:42.840 --> 00:37:43.240] Yeah.
[00:37:43.240 --> 00:37:43.560] Okay.
[00:37:43.560 --> 00:37:44.040] Yeah.
[00:37:46.120 --> 00:37:49.400] I just want to say a quick thank you to our sponsors for supporting this show.
[00:37:49.400 --> 00:37:57.240] And hey, if this conversation is resonating, consider sending it to a friend, a fellow business owner, or really anyone who needs to hear that they're not alone.
[00:37:57.240 --> 00:38:04.200] Coming up, Anna shares powerful ways we can move from surviving inequality to actively solving it together.
[00:38:05.480 --> 00:38:09.960] Can we talk about how bad underwear can ruin your entire day?
[00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:13.800] Like I used to put on underwear in a bra knowing that I'd be adjusting it by 10 a.m.
[00:38:13.800 --> 00:38:16.120] and completely over it by lunchtime.
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[00:38:35.160 --> 00:38:40.440] I'm so confident in these pieces that when I packed my Grease suitcase, it was basically all skims.
[00:38:40.440 --> 00:38:46.640] I even wore their bodysuit for a recent branding photo shoot because when something fits this well, you just trust it.
[00:38:44.840 --> 00:38:53.920] When your underwear actually works, you stop wasting precious mental energy on it and you can focus on everything else that matters.
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[00:40:18.400 --> 00:40:24.640] This podcast is brought to you by Mercury, banking that helps entrepreneurs do more with their money.
[00:40:24.640 --> 00:40:29.360] When I first started taking my business seriously, I remember feeling stretched thin.
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[00:41:19.560 --> 00:41:25.240] So, here's my big question for you because I subscribe and understand everything you're saying.
[00:41:25.240 --> 00:41:29.320] And I think that people that are listening, it's like, well, now what?
[00:41:29.320 --> 00:41:29.480] Right?
[00:41:29.800 --> 00:41:32.280] We see the numbers, the writing's on the wall.
[00:41:32.760 --> 00:41:35.960] How do we help solve it, not just survive it?
[00:41:35.960 --> 00:41:43.880] Like, what are some tactical ways that we can come together in community that white women can support black women and vice versa?
[00:41:43.880 --> 00:41:46.440] Like, how, what does that look like lived out?
[00:41:46.440 --> 00:41:47.880] I guess is my question.
[00:41:48.200 --> 00:41:52.600] Yeah, I think that there are a couple ways that that can take place.
[00:41:52.920 --> 00:42:05.200] And what I want to start off with is: one, when we say get into community, what we don't mean is post-black squares.
[00:42:05.520 --> 00:42:05.840] Right?
[00:42:06.440 --> 00:42:06.960] Yeah.
[00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:22.240] Not saying that solidarity is bad or anything, or showing that you care is a bad thing, but showing that you care and actually caring are two different things, right?
[00:42:22.560 --> 00:42:25.440] So I think a lot of times people try to overcomplicate it.
[00:42:25.440 --> 00:42:30.400] They say, you know, am I supposed to do, you know, this and that and this and that?
[00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:32.240] It's actually a lot simpler than that.
[00:42:32.560 --> 00:42:37.760] I always tell people it's about just being a good human being to your fellow human being.
[00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:48.080] It means leading with empathy and understanding that in some cases, your experience is not going to be the center of attention.
[00:42:48.080 --> 00:42:53.680] And sometimes it's not even the best benchmark for how we should progress.
[00:42:53.680 --> 00:43:06.800] I think a lot of times when we have conversations about gender equality, you'll notice that a lot of the women who will be on these stages will come from a certain background, you know, will look a certain way, they'll go to a certain school.
[00:43:06.800 --> 00:43:26.720] And it misses all the other stories that are needed in order for us to better understand the depths of the inequality that we face and the solutions that lie, namely, in our lived experiences, right?
[00:43:26.720 --> 00:43:34.880] It's not beneficial to only have Harvard grads on stage when people go to community colleges or don't even go to college at all.
[00:43:34.880 --> 00:43:36.960] We need those stories as well.
[00:43:36.960 --> 00:43:41.440] And so I think when we talk about solidarity, that's a great place to start.
[00:43:41.440 --> 00:43:45.920] It means showing up for the women in your neighborhood.
[00:43:45.920 --> 00:43:48.480] And it can be as simple as just checking in.
[00:43:48.800 --> 00:43:51.280] You go to your neighbor, hey, how are you doing?
[00:43:51.920 --> 00:43:53.440] How's everything going?
[00:43:53.440 --> 00:43:55.040] How are the kids?
[00:43:55.360 --> 00:43:57.560] Is there anything I can help you with?
[00:43:57.560 --> 00:43:58.000] Right?
[00:43:58.000 --> 00:43:59.760] Is there any way I can help support you?
[00:43:59.880 --> 00:44:02.040] I also need some support, asking for support.
[00:44:02.200 --> 00:44:06.280] I think a lot of times women are really afraid to ask for help.
[00:44:06.600 --> 00:44:14.040] And a lot of that is because of the way that society has told us that, you know, asking for help makes us look weak, right?
[00:44:14.360 --> 00:44:18.120] It makes us feel like, oh, like we weren't able to do it ourselves.
[00:44:18.120 --> 00:44:22.760] But as you just noted, were we meant to do it ourselves?
[00:44:22.760 --> 00:44:23.160] Right?
[00:44:23.160 --> 00:44:25.160] Like, no, I actually don't think so.
[00:44:25.160 --> 00:44:25.640] Yeah.
[00:44:25.640 --> 00:44:34.840] So I think that, you know, first and foremost, getting into community begins with really making sure that we hear everybody's story.
[00:44:35.160 --> 00:44:41.480] And then the next step there is to actually act based off of the stories that we're hearing.
[00:44:41.800 --> 00:44:48.680] So in the double tax, at the end of every single chapter, I have a section called Closing the Gap.
[00:44:48.920 --> 00:44:56.920] I think it's kind of reckless to tell people a bunch of problems and then not offer solutions.
[00:44:57.640 --> 00:44:59.720] I'd fire you if you were on my team, Anna.
[00:44:59.720 --> 00:45:01.880] I'd be like, don't come at me with all the problems.
[00:45:02.200 --> 00:45:03.480] Let's figure this out.
[00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:04.520] Let's figure this out.
[00:45:04.520 --> 00:45:05.080] I love that.
[00:45:05.080 --> 00:45:05.480] Right.
[00:45:05.800 --> 00:45:13.160] And so, you know, one thing that I want to note is there are a lot of solutions that are on the table right now.
[00:45:13.160 --> 00:45:14.680] I'm going to name a couple of them.
[00:45:14.680 --> 00:45:15.080] Yeah.
[00:45:15.080 --> 00:45:19.560] Because I have to sort of dig into what we can do.
[00:45:20.280 --> 00:45:24.040] One thing that I want to note here is for career paths, right?
[00:45:24.040 --> 00:45:25.960] I'm talking to women who are in business.
[00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:38.520] And what we need right now are people who donate and support programs, right, that increase access to job opportunities.
[00:45:38.520 --> 00:45:39.800] So, what do I mean by that?
[00:45:39.800 --> 00:45:47.280] I mean, if you know that there's a woman foundation in your state, I would donate some money towards it, right?
[00:45:47.280 --> 00:45:58.400] Because these women foundations, what they're doing is they're taking all the money that you are bringing to them and they're doning it out to smaller entrepreneurs, people who are just getting started, right?
[00:45:58.720 --> 00:46:02.240] As seed funding to get them on their feet.
[00:46:02.240 --> 00:46:08.000] So, when we talk about sisterhood, that's a great, tangible way to demonstrate that.
[00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:09.520] Let me give you another one.
[00:46:09.520 --> 00:46:16.640] The other thing that has been happening across the board is you're seeing a lot of anti-this policy, anti-that policy.
[00:46:16.640 --> 00:46:23.200] And a lot of those anti-policies are directly targeting people like yourself, right?
[00:46:23.520 --> 00:46:33.440] About 78% of the diversity seed funding that was awarded recently went to white women, actually, contrary to popular belief.
[00:46:33.760 --> 00:46:44.400] And so, that means that if they're attacking diversity funding, it's not just hurting me as a black woman, it's also hurting you, or also hurting other groups of women.
[00:46:44.400 --> 00:46:51.680] And this is kind of what we're talking about: how what happens to one group of women actually matters for all groups of women, right?
[00:46:51.680 --> 00:46:58.320] They're targeting one group of women, but you end up being the one who also doesn't benefit from that policy being cut.
[00:46:58.320 --> 00:47:03.120] So, fighting hard to ensure that those policies stay in place.
[00:47:03.120 --> 00:47:12.320] That can be through your vote, but that can be through direct advocacy, funding and supporting and volunteering at organizations that are directly fighting this.
[00:47:12.320 --> 00:47:14.240] That's one way to also tackle it.
[00:47:14.240 --> 00:47:28.080] The other thing that I want to note, too, because we're talking about entrepreneurs, we're talking about business owners, is that we talked earlier about the venture capital space and how underrepresented women are and how underrepresented women of color are.
[00:47:28.080 --> 00:47:32.120] Transparency is your best friend.
[00:47:32.120 --> 00:47:32.600] Okay.
[00:47:32.840 --> 00:47:34.200] What do I mean by this?
[00:47:29.440 --> 00:47:35.640] Talk to one another.
[00:47:36.280 --> 00:47:37.560] I'm begging you.
[00:47:37.560 --> 00:47:38.120] Yes.
[00:47:38.120 --> 00:47:38.680] Right?
[00:47:39.000 --> 00:47:41.560] Because you might have been getting one deal.
[00:47:41.560 --> 00:47:42.280] Yep.
[00:47:43.160 --> 00:47:46.600] But that might have gotten you out of another deal that you could have gotten.
[00:47:46.600 --> 00:47:47.000] Yeah.
[00:47:47.240 --> 00:47:47.640] Right.
[00:47:47.960 --> 00:47:50.840] And a lot of times this does vary across racial lines.
[00:47:50.840 --> 00:47:53.480] It does vary across class lines.
[00:47:53.480 --> 00:48:00.200] A lot of times, you know, I'm telling a friend of mine this recently: decisions get made on the margin, right?
[00:48:00.520 --> 00:48:02.200] Based off of relationships.
[00:48:02.200 --> 00:48:04.760] I know that's so cliche, but I'm telling you.
[00:48:04.760 --> 00:48:05.400] It's real.
[00:48:05.400 --> 00:48:06.040] It's very real.
[00:48:06.120 --> 00:48:06.920] It's real.
[00:48:07.240 --> 00:48:08.120] Very real.
[00:48:08.120 --> 00:48:08.680] Very real.
[00:48:08.680 --> 00:48:18.680] When we talk about admissions at Harvard, admissions at Ivy Leagues, it boils down to, you know, these two candidates are like, which one is more familiar to me?
[00:48:19.320 --> 00:48:19.800] Right?
[00:48:20.040 --> 00:48:25.720] Either in where they went to their institution, you know, what kind of clubs they were a part of in high school.
[00:48:25.720 --> 00:48:28.040] Was I part of the same high school clubs?
[00:48:28.040 --> 00:48:33.320] And then when, of course, when you get to the career ladder, that's pretty much the same thing that perpetuates.
[00:48:33.320 --> 00:48:45.080] Transparency is your best friend because if you're able to be in community and talk to people about the kind of deals you're getting, the kind of funding you're getting, one, you now have a pool of support that you can draw from.
[00:48:45.080 --> 00:48:47.400] There's things that you might have not even known existed.
[00:48:47.400 --> 00:48:49.240] Now you know it exists.
[00:48:49.240 --> 00:48:53.800] But two, you actually lift up the tie for everyone, right?
[00:48:53.800 --> 00:49:01.800] The rising tide that lifts all boats, because you've now sent a new benchmark that everyone now has to abide by.
[00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:05.560] If I say, for example, this is Jenna and I, we're both, we're both entrepreneurs.
[00:49:05.520 --> 00:49:08.120] Yeah, I got a million dollars in my deal.
[00:49:08.120 --> 00:49:09.960] And she says, I got 5 million.
[00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:11.880] And we exchange that information.
[00:49:12.360 --> 00:49:16.800] The next time I go and say, I'm pitching, I heard Jenna got 5 million.
[00:49:14.600 --> 00:49:19.120] My product is actually quite similar to hers.
[00:49:19.680 --> 00:49:21.920] Why are you benchmarking me at two?
[00:49:23.200 --> 00:49:29.280] Suddenly, that information becomes critical to the transaction, right?
[00:49:29.600 --> 00:49:39.040] And more importantly, because that information exists, the folks who are making decisions about what resources you get have to adjust.
[00:49:39.360 --> 00:49:40.560] They have to.
[00:49:40.560 --> 00:49:42.160] Otherwise, they look what?
[00:49:42.480 --> 00:49:43.920] Discriminatory.
[00:49:45.200 --> 00:49:48.240] If you don't want to suffer in silence, you got to talk.
[00:49:49.360 --> 00:49:52.000] At least in the business world, you have to talk.
[00:49:52.320 --> 00:49:55.680] And so I would say these are a couple ideas that I would suggest.
[00:49:55.680 --> 00:49:58.480] There's plenty more in the book, of course, to check out.
[00:49:58.480 --> 00:50:12.400] But for those who are in the business world, transparency, community, and making sure that you are sharing the wealth and not only centering your experience is critical to your success.
[00:50:12.400 --> 00:50:15.120] From what I've seen, this is from one entrepreneur to another.
[00:50:15.120 --> 00:50:15.520] Yeah.
[00:50:15.520 --> 00:50:16.480] Oh, I love that.
[00:50:16.480 --> 00:50:19.600] I think the transparency piece is so huge.
[00:50:19.600 --> 00:50:23.520] Like, I am an open book with so many people.
[00:50:23.840 --> 00:50:30.240] And it does, it paints the four-minute mile over and over and over again of what's possible because you're like, wait a minute.
[00:50:30.240 --> 00:50:34.320] Like, I remember one of my friends sharing her keynote fee, and you're like, wait, what?
[00:50:34.320 --> 00:50:34.960] That's possible.
[00:50:35.040 --> 00:50:39.600] You know, and it's like, if we can keep painting the four-minute mile, we can all run it together, right?
[00:50:39.600 --> 00:50:42.160] Like, so I think that's so huge.
[00:50:42.160 --> 00:50:49.600] And it's, I think, people that make you feel like you should be quiet with that, or the people that are winning because you're being quiet with it.
[00:50:49.600 --> 00:50:50.080] You got it.
[00:50:50.080 --> 00:50:51.000] You know, bingo.
[00:50:50.880 --> 00:50:51.160] Yep.
[00:50:51.360 --> 00:50:53.680] So, okay, we have time for one last question.
[00:50:53.680 --> 00:50:55.520] And this is a goodie.
[00:50:54.600 --> 00:50:59.280] Goody, you have seen behind the curtain of both power and policy, right?
[00:50:59.880 --> 00:51:07.640] And so, what is one truth about success, wealth, or equity that has changed everything for you, but nobody talks about?
[00:51:07.640 --> 00:51:09.720] I love this question.
[00:51:09.720 --> 00:51:14.280] And I love it because it gives me an opportunity to be very, very real.
[00:51:14.280 --> 00:51:17.640] I mean, I've been real this entire time, but to be even more real.
[00:51:17.960 --> 00:51:25.880] Anybody who says, anybody successful who says, I did this on my own, is a liar.
[00:51:26.200 --> 00:51:29.640] And I need you to hear me when I say that.
[00:51:29.640 --> 00:51:36.280] They're lying to you because, you know, I see self-made X, self-made Y.
[00:51:36.600 --> 00:51:39.160] Let me tell you why that's impossible.
[00:51:39.160 --> 00:51:43.800] In order for them to have gotten on that cover, there needs to be an assistant that booked that meeting.
[00:51:43.800 --> 00:51:45.160] There needs to be editorial.
[00:51:45.160 --> 00:51:46.440] There needs to be makeup artists.
[00:51:46.440 --> 00:51:49.720] There needs to be crew on site, photographers.
[00:51:49.720 --> 00:51:52.760] At minimum, the coverage alone is not self-made.
[00:51:54.680 --> 00:52:03.000] And so what I've learned is that there are people who will tap that lie because they want to take sole credit.
[00:52:03.000 --> 00:52:04.840] They want to elevate their status.
[00:52:04.840 --> 00:52:08.920] They want to say, oh, you know, like you can't do what I just did.
[00:52:09.240 --> 00:52:14.120] But I'm telling you right now, you get the right community around you, you might surpass them.
[00:52:14.120 --> 00:52:17.320] In my experience, right, you know, I'm 29 years old.
[00:52:17.320 --> 00:52:20.440] A lot of people look at me and they're like, what is going on here?
[00:52:21.320 --> 00:52:24.120] They're like, who is this person?
[00:52:24.120 --> 00:52:25.320] I get it a lot, right?
[00:52:25.320 --> 00:52:30.760] I just came from Essence Fest and, you know, I've done a couple opportunities here and there.
[00:52:30.760 --> 00:52:31.560] I spoke at the U.S.
[00:52:31.560 --> 00:52:36.520] Embassy in Germany a couple years ago, and I got to bring my dad, which was really fun.
[00:52:36.520 --> 00:52:40.440] And people will look at my life and they say, How on earth are you doing this?
[00:52:40.440 --> 00:52:42.040] And I said, I'm not.
[00:52:42.680 --> 00:52:44.280] We're doing this.
[00:52:44.520 --> 00:52:47.760] It's a huge community that's backing me right now.
[00:52:47.760 --> 00:52:56.880] I'm the face of it, but you will never see me on this God forsaken earth or whatever saying I did it by myself.
[00:52:57.200 --> 00:52:58.640] It's a lie.
[00:52:58.960 --> 00:53:14.800] Even someone like we're going to be talking about like Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates, they have teams, they have engineers, they have people who, you know, they might be saying the idea, but the people who construct it, who tinker with it, you don't see.
[00:53:14.800 --> 00:53:15.360] Right.
[00:53:15.680 --> 00:53:18.960] You know, even with influencers, I always say this too.
[00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:21.040] You're not seeing the crew behind the camera.
[00:53:21.040 --> 00:53:22.720] There's somebody filming.
[00:53:23.040 --> 00:53:27.040] I'm saying, even if they set up a filming thing, they had to get advice.
[00:53:27.040 --> 00:53:28.960] They had to talk to somebody.
[00:53:28.960 --> 00:53:30.720] That is what I have learned.
[00:53:30.720 --> 00:53:36.400] That anybody who I thought might have arrived on their own actually did it.
[00:53:36.720 --> 00:53:40.320] And it actually speaks to your character.
[00:53:40.320 --> 00:53:43.200] And I would argue to your future.
[00:53:43.520 --> 00:53:48.560] How much credit you give your community, the community that got you here, right?
[00:53:48.880 --> 00:53:53.840] I want to give a huge shout out with that in mind to the team that made this book possible.
[00:53:53.840 --> 00:53:55.120] We're talking about Adeline.
[00:53:55.120 --> 00:53:56.400] We're talking about Aisha.
[00:53:56.400 --> 00:54:12.240] We're talking about Alexa, Kaylee, the literary team, the publicity team, the marketing team, the editorial team, my parents, my family, my support system, my advisors who said, yo, why is she putting out another book?
[00:54:12.240 --> 00:54:14.400] So you would graduate.
[00:54:14.720 --> 00:54:21.760] All of my friends and people who have just supported me, folks like yourself, Jenna, who have seen the value of this.
[00:54:21.760 --> 00:54:22.560] Thank you.
[00:54:23.200 --> 00:54:28.240] Because this would be impossible if not for y'all.
[00:54:28.240 --> 00:54:32.520] And I think that that is really what I've learned about the journey to success.
[00:54:33.160 --> 00:54:41.720] If you allow yourself to be a vessel for other people to succeed through you, that success is just going to keep on coming.
[00:54:42.040 --> 00:54:45.240] It's the moment that you start to say, well, this is all me.
[00:54:45.240 --> 00:54:50.440] And you start shutting yourself off as a vessel for other people to thrive.
[00:54:50.440 --> 00:54:53.080] That is when you start to see the problems.
[00:54:53.400 --> 00:54:55.720] And I hope that I never see that.
[00:54:57.000 --> 00:54:58.120] That is so beautiful.
[00:54:58.120 --> 00:55:01.240] It reminds me of writing the acknowledgements in my book.
[00:55:01.240 --> 00:55:10.920] And like, I left it till the very last minute because the fear of forgetting just one person was what would keep me up at night, right?
[00:55:10.920 --> 00:55:15.080] Like, I could write anything else, but that piece of like, every, yeah.
[00:55:15.080 --> 00:55:16.920] Oh, that's so beautiful, Anna.
[00:55:16.920 --> 00:55:22.040] Where can everybody find you, connect with you, get your book, like learn from you?
[00:55:22.040 --> 00:55:25.160] I have to say, I feel like you are just getting started.
[00:55:25.160 --> 00:55:35.000] I mean, you've done a lot, and that's not a discredit to any of the incredible work, but like I see you on a freaking rocket ship, not the one that Elon Musk is flying.
[00:55:35.000 --> 00:55:36.200] I'm screaming.
[00:55:36.520 --> 00:55:39.880] That is going into another world.
[00:55:39.880 --> 00:55:41.080] Thank you so much.
[00:55:41.400 --> 00:55:49.880] Once again, I want to just thank you for this platform, for your sisterhood, and for just creating a community where conversations like this can thrive.
[00:55:49.880 --> 00:55:54.360] And so I just want to give you your flowers before I go ahead and close out.
[00:55:54.360 --> 00:56:00.840] So if folks are interested in what we talked about today, a lot of what we touched on is in this book called The Double Tax.
[00:56:00.840 --> 00:56:12.760] So, the double Tax digs into how much it costs to be a woman, why that bill runs highest for a lot of women of color, and what we can do as a community, as a sisterhood, to start bringing those costs down.
[00:56:12.760 --> 00:56:21.680] And for folks who want to engage with me on social media, feel free to follow me on Blue Sky or Instagram at its Afronomics, so I-T-S Afro-Nomics.
[00:56:22.160 --> 00:56:25.680] And then, if you're just interested in the kind of work that I do, annagifty.com.
[00:56:25.680 --> 00:56:33.040] I have my research on there, I have my book stuff on there, but I'm also just always down to have a chat with folks who might want to learn a little bit more.
[00:56:33.040 --> 00:56:37.680] We're going on tour as well, so I know this is coming out closer to when the book comes out.
[00:56:37.680 --> 00:56:45.360] So, we'll be on tour, we're going on a nationwide tour, and then, of course, if you're international, we'll be headed to the UK soon as well.
[00:56:45.360 --> 00:56:49.040] So, thank you so, so much for this platform, Jenna.
[00:56:49.040 --> 00:56:51.680] Thanks so much, Chrissy, for being behind the scenes.
[00:56:51.680 --> 00:56:55.040] And thank you so much to everybody who's been listening to our conversation.
[00:56:55.040 --> 00:57:01.600] I hope that it really touched you and hopefully it leads you to support another woman who's nearby.
[00:57:02.400 --> 00:57:09.680] Let me say, I have had a lot of guests on this podcast, and Anna is one of my favorites.
[00:57:09.680 --> 00:57:13.120] She's exceptional, she's incredible.
[00:57:13.120 --> 00:57:21.120] And the way that she breaks things down really helps you not just to have information, but to have useful information that you can take action on.
[00:57:21.120 --> 00:57:23.680] I want you to go support her book.
[00:57:23.680 --> 00:57:26.400] I want for you to go buy it and consume it.
[00:57:26.400 --> 00:57:29.200] And I want for us to come together in community.
[00:57:29.200 --> 00:57:34.080] Let's talk about the double tax and what we can do to help alleviate it.
[00:57:34.080 --> 00:57:37.600] Let's talk about how we can change the rules that everybody's playing by.
[00:57:37.600 --> 00:57:41.360] And let's continue conversations like the one Anna and I had today.
[00:57:41.360 --> 00:57:44.800] Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Gold Digger Podcast.
[00:57:44.800 --> 00:57:48.320] Until next time, keep on digging your biggest goals.
[00:57:48.640 --> 00:58:12.360] Thanks for pulling up a seat for another episode of the Gold Digger Podcast.com for today's show notes, discount codes for our sponsors, freebies to fuel your results, and so much more.
[00:58:12.360 --> 00:58:16.920] And if you haven't yet, make sure you're subscribed so that you never miss a future show.
[00:58:16.920 --> 00:58:19.320] We'll see you next time, Gold Diggers.

Prompt 2: Key Takeaways

Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.

Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...". 

Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive. 

IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}

Prompt 3: Segments

Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.

For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)  
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion

IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
  "segments": [
    {
      "segment_title": "Topic Discussion", 
      "timestamp": "01:15:30",
      "key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
      "segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
    }
  ]
}

Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.

Prompt 4: Media Mentions

Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:

Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)  
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)

DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names

IMPORTANT: 
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
  "media_mentions": [
    {
      "title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
      "category": "Book",
      "author_artist": "N/A",
      "context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
      "context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
      "timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
    }
  ]
}

If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}

Full Transcript

[00:00:01.440 --> 00:00:05.440] Ever whispered, maybe I could create an online course someday?
[00:00:05.440 --> 00:00:10.240] And then you thought, nope, too overwhelming, too risky, and way too much tech.
[00:00:10.240 --> 00:00:11.840] That's you, I get it.
[00:00:11.840 --> 00:00:18.160] When I started, I had no clue where to begin, no extra hours, and no idea if anyone would buy.
[00:00:18.160 --> 00:00:20.400] Then I met Amy Porterfield.
[00:00:20.400 --> 00:00:27.120] She gave me a clear, doable path, and that someday dream became a profitable, sustainable part of my business.
[00:00:27.120 --> 00:00:31.600] Now I've built multiple online courses that earn while I live my life.
[00:00:31.600 --> 00:00:37.680] That's why I'm so excited to tell you about Course Confident, a live boot camp with Amy herself.
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[00:02:38.440 --> 00:02:42.040] Have you ever wondered why it feels harder to build a business as a woman?
[00:02:42.040 --> 00:02:45.640] Well, it's not just you, and Anna Gifty has the stats to prove it.
[00:02:45.640 --> 00:02:50.920] This conversation will explain exactly why it feels that way and what we can do about it.
[00:02:51.560 --> 00:02:55.080] I'm Jenna Kutcher, your host of the Goldigger podcast.
[00:02:55.080 --> 00:03:01.960] I escaped the corporate world at the age of 23 with nothing more than a $300 camera from Craigslist and a dream.
[00:03:01.960 --> 00:03:10.120] Now I'm running a seven-figure online business that feels even better than it looks all from my house in small town, Minnesota with my family.
[00:03:10.120 --> 00:03:13.000] Here, we value time as our currency.
[00:03:13.000 --> 00:03:20.360] We mix the woo and the work, and we are in the pursuit of building businesses that give us the freedom to live lives that we love.
[00:03:20.360 --> 00:03:25.640] I've always loved turning big goals into reality, and I'm here to help you do the same.
[00:03:25.640 --> 00:03:27.880] This isn't just a peek behind the curtain.
[00:03:27.880 --> 00:03:31.560] Come along with me and my guests as we tear the whole curtain down.
[00:03:31.560 --> 00:03:39.000] Every week, we tackle practical, no-fluff marketing strategies and host honest discussions on what works and what doesn't.
[00:03:39.000 --> 00:03:44.960] Join me and my expert guests for actionable insights to help you grow your dream business with confidence.
[00:03:44.600 --> 00:03:49.120] Pull up a seat and get ready to be challenged, inspired, and empowered.
[00:03:49.440 --> 00:03:52.480] This is the Gold Digger podcast.
[00:03:53.440 --> 00:03:57.920] Ever feel like success seems a little more expensive for you than it does for everyone else?
[00:03:57.920 --> 00:03:59.360] Like you're doing everything right.
[00:03:59.360 --> 00:04:04.400] You're building the business, juggling the roles, playing the game, and yet you're still coming up short?
[00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:06.160] Well, that's not in your head.
[00:04:06.160 --> 00:04:07.360] It's actually real.
[00:04:07.360 --> 00:04:10.320] And today's guest, Anna Gifty, is here to prove it.
[00:04:10.320 --> 00:04:22.480] Anna is a Harvard-trained economist and the author of The Double Tax, a bold new book that breaks down the invisible costs women, especially women of color, pay just to participate in society.
[00:04:22.480 --> 00:04:26.080] But what makes this conversation essential for entrepreneurs?
[00:04:26.080 --> 00:04:34.160] Well, Anna shows how these taxes sneak into your business, your brand, your funding, your time, and what you can do to push back.
[00:04:34.160 --> 00:04:44.080] From the cost of motherhood to beauty standards in the workplace to why generational wealth building still feels out of reach, this episode is a masterclass in economic empowerment.
[00:04:44.080 --> 00:04:46.720] And oh my gosh, Anna is giving it.
[00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:48.640] This is not just theory.
[00:04:48.640 --> 00:04:52.800] Anna actually gives you the tactical tools to change things.
[00:04:52.800 --> 00:05:01.360] If you are building a business and wondering why it still feels this hard or you want to be a part of rewriting the rules, this conversation is your permission slip.
[00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:04.320] Anna Gifty, here's the warmest welcome.
[00:05:04.320 --> 00:05:07.280] Welcome to the Gold Digger podcast.
[00:05:07.600 --> 00:05:15.360] Anna, you studied public policy and economics at Harvard, so you are literally the perfect person for me to ask this question.
[00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:23.120] What is one hidden double tax that entrepreneurs listening are likely paying without even realizing it?
[00:05:23.120 --> 00:05:23.720] Yes.
[00:05:23.360 --> 00:05:27.040] So, so first of all, thank you so much for having me on this podcast.
[00:05:27.040 --> 00:05:34.840] I'm extremely honored to be in community with you, in sisterhood with you, and just talking about the costs that women face.
[00:05:35.000 --> 00:05:38.200] And so, let's maybe kind of level set for a second.
[00:05:38.200 --> 00:05:39.960] What is the double tax, right?
[00:05:39.960 --> 00:05:46.040] So, the double tax is the compounded cost of racism and sexism, right?
[00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:56.280] So, this idea that there's costs that come from being a woman, there's costs that come from being a racial minority, and then there's women who have those experiences simultaneously.
[00:05:56.280 --> 00:06:05.000] And so, I want to go ahead and address what you said first and foremost, which is how do we think about a hidden cost that affects entrepreneurs?
[00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:09.640] And one thing that we know about business owners is that we need capital, right?
[00:06:09.640 --> 00:06:13.000] In order to build a business, you need money.
[00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:25.000] And so, what we have seen in the research is that the folks who make decisions about who gets money is oftentimes reflective of what the double tax ultimately gets at.
[00:06:25.000 --> 00:06:31.080] So, I'm going to throw some numbers at you because, you know, I'm a numbers gal and I think that facts are important.
[00:06:31.080 --> 00:06:37.880] And so, according to Forbes, we know that white men make up 30% of our national population, right?
[00:06:38.200 --> 00:06:43.960] But they make up 58% of venture capitalist investors.
[00:06:43.960 --> 00:06:48.840] So, let me translate that for folks who might not be familiar with sort of finance speak.
[00:06:48.840 --> 00:06:58.600] This idea of the individuals who actually decide whether or not you get those dollars into your business are disproportionately white and disproportionately male, right?
[00:06:58.600 --> 00:07:02.320] Now, the other thing that I want to add here, and this is like the first part of the double tax.
[00:07:02.280 --> 00:07:12.440] So, so thinking about sort of gender inequality, white women make up the same amount of individuals who are part of the national population, 30%.
[00:07:12.440 --> 00:07:19.600] However, they make up 11% of the venture capitalist investors, right?
[00:07:19.600 --> 00:07:24.160] The people who decide who gets the dollars sent to your business.
[00:07:24.160 --> 00:07:31.040] So, this idea of whether or not you prioritize a business's offering or product, right?
[00:07:31.040 --> 00:07:35.440] It might be determined by whether or not you see value in it at all.
[00:07:35.440 --> 00:07:38.080] And I think a lot of times people think this stuff is objective.
[00:07:38.080 --> 00:07:46.080] They're like, well, you know, objectively speaking, you know, I'm a man and I must know that, you know, what a woman wants is this and what a woman wants is that.
[00:07:46.080 --> 00:07:47.520] And I'm far away from that.
[00:07:47.520 --> 00:07:50.800] So I can make an objective calculation of what's going on.
[00:07:51.280 --> 00:07:58.880] But the gag of the matter is our lived experiences inform whether or not we place value on certain things.
[00:07:58.880 --> 00:08:23.840] And so if 11% of the venture capitalist investors are white women, that means that things that white women value may not be served, may not be funded, and ultimately may not be produced, which means that there's a huge missing market here that businesses are not even being able to tap into because they can't even get the money to start building products for that market.
[00:08:23.840 --> 00:08:39.920] And then the gag of the matter is the double tax says, well, take gender inequality, add racial inequality, and what we end up with is 7% of venture capital investors are women of color across the board.
[00:08:39.920 --> 00:08:41.040] That's combined.
[00:08:41.040 --> 00:08:42.560] We're talking about Asian women.
[00:08:42.560 --> 00:08:44.080] We're talking about black women.
[00:08:44.080 --> 00:08:47.040] We're talking about Latina women, Native women.
[00:08:47.040 --> 00:08:50.560] In total, we make up seven percent.
[00:08:50.560 --> 00:08:51.680] So, now think about it.
[00:08:51.680 --> 00:09:12.760] If we're missing a chunk of the market for white women, and we then take it to women of color, we're missing another chunk of the market, money is being left on the table, not just by the venture capitalist investors who could be making a buck, but also by those who hopefully will be served by the products that are created by these women entrepreneurs, by these women business owners.
[00:09:12.760 --> 00:09:17.800] And so, that's why it's extremely important to think about how does the double tax show up in business?
[00:09:17.800 --> 00:09:33.720] It shows up in business by the underrepresentation that shows up in who gets capital and why, but also shows up in how that underrepresentation has a domino effect on who gets served and ultimately what gets produced for society.
[00:09:33.720 --> 00:09:34.600] Wow.
[00:09:34.920 --> 00:09:39.720] I mean, I have heard those stats thrown around, like you said.
[00:09:39.720 --> 00:09:44.040] And when it's broken down, you not only think about the top end, right?
[00:09:44.040 --> 00:09:45.480] Who's making the decision?
[00:09:45.480 --> 00:09:50.920] That's right, but you also think about the actual product market and what's even born, right?
[00:09:50.920 --> 00:09:54.120] Like, how is a product in a business born?
[00:09:54.120 --> 00:10:05.000] And it's interesting too, because then it just is that domino effect of like there aren't even products created for people who need them that could be successful businesses.
[00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:08.360] It's like missed opportunities across the board.
[00:10:08.360 --> 00:10:16.520] And one thing I want to give an example for: yeah, is let's think about you know, when you're going into a building, there's steps sometimes, and then there's ramps.
[00:10:16.520 --> 00:10:20.360] Ramps were created with disabled people in mind.
[00:10:20.360 --> 00:10:23.560] But let's say you have a limp in your leg one day.
[00:10:23.560 --> 00:10:26.680] Are you taking the steps or are you taking the ramp?
[00:10:26.680 --> 00:10:36.280] So, this is an example to illustrate that something that was created with certain groups in mind, actually serves everyone at the end of the day.
[00:10:36.280 --> 00:10:55.760] And ultimately, that is the point of the double tax: this idea that if you actually address the benchmark of progress towards women and women who are definitely underserved, you actually end up solving problems for all other people because we are targeting those who are experiencing the most marginalization.
[00:10:56.720 --> 00:11:10.080] I was at lunch the other day with a friend and we got into this discussion about how it's really interesting that oftentimes women are taught to admire and respect men and women, right?
[00:11:10.080 --> 00:11:10.480] Yeah.
[00:11:10.480 --> 00:11:10.960] Yeah.
[00:11:11.280 --> 00:11:16.000] But men are often not taught to respect and admire women.
[00:11:16.320 --> 00:11:19.600] And we were talking about it because it was fascinating.
[00:11:19.600 --> 00:11:24.880] And I see it a lot of times in different business rooms, even a business book.
[00:11:24.880 --> 00:11:28.640] I was listening to a business book the other day, brilliant book, not going to name it.
[00:11:28.640 --> 00:11:31.680] And every example they gave was a white man.
[00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:34.000] And it was just interesting to me.
[00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:37.840] It's like you don't even see the gap, right?
[00:11:38.160 --> 00:11:51.200] And it was just a really interesting discussion that I had with my friend: isn't it fascinating that we don't raise boys to look up to women as leaders and thought leaders and innovators and inventors?
[00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:51.760] Right.
[00:11:51.760 --> 00:11:57.920] And it is the gap is everywhere in funding, in ideology, in admiration.
[00:11:57.920 --> 00:11:59.360] It's just fascinating.
[00:11:59.360 --> 00:12:00.880] How did you start studying this?
[00:12:00.880 --> 00:12:02.480] Like, what was your path?
[00:12:02.480 --> 00:12:03.760] Because you're so passionate.
[00:12:03.760 --> 00:12:04.560] I'm like, tell me more.
[00:12:04.640 --> 00:12:05.520] Thank you so much.
[00:12:05.520 --> 00:12:09.520] Well, I want to address what you said really quickly before I jump into the path.
[00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:17.840] You know, that's kind of why I found it odd when we started hearing conversations about we need more male energy in the workplace.
[00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:23.840] Because as someone who has just written a book about the cost that women face, I said, more male energy.
[00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:25.600] We got enough of that.
[00:12:25.600 --> 00:12:26.640] We got enough of that.
[00:12:26.640 --> 00:12:27.600] You know what I'm saying?
[00:12:27.600 --> 00:12:28.160] Yeah.
[00:12:28.160 --> 00:12:36.440] We know from the stats that the top 10 paying career paths are disproportionately white and male.
[00:12:36.760 --> 00:12:44.680] We're talking at least 52% of the individuals in the top 10 paying career paths are white men.
[00:12:44.680 --> 00:12:59.880] So when I'm looking at, you know, small incremental changes that are happening for women, for women of color, for other groups that are marginalized, my immediate thought is: so, because you had to share a crumb of your success, now everybody's crashing out.
[00:12:59.880 --> 00:13:00.840] That's crazy.
[00:13:00.840 --> 00:13:01.720] You know what I'm saying?
[00:13:01.720 --> 00:13:07.160] So I wanted to just note that I think what you're making a point about is very true.
[00:13:07.160 --> 00:13:09.320] This idea of who's the face of leadership.
[00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:09.880] Yeah.
[00:13:09.880 --> 00:13:15.880] And how does that trickle down to the kind of decisions that we make, not just in our everyday, but across society?
[00:13:15.880 --> 00:13:19.000] So to your point about your question about how did I get into this?
[00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:19.560] Yeah.
[00:13:19.880 --> 00:13:24.360] So I'm going to take it back a little bit, if you don't mind, if you'll indolge me.
[00:13:24.360 --> 00:13:24.760] Yeah.
[00:13:24.760 --> 00:13:25.000] Yeah.
[00:13:25.560 --> 00:13:33.800] So I grew up in, you know, low-income housing, kind of like a rent-stabilized neighborhood in Maryland, but I was in the wealthiest county, right?
[00:13:33.800 --> 00:13:36.520] So it's like low-income housing, wealthiest county.
[00:13:36.520 --> 00:13:39.240] And this meant that I was eligible for Head Start.
[00:13:39.240 --> 00:13:43.800] So for those who don't know, Head Start is a program for low-income families, children.
[00:13:43.800 --> 00:13:47.240] It provides like pre-K, kindergarten preparation, et cetera, et cetera.
[00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:52.040] And Opportunity of a Lifetime started knocking on our doorstep shortly after.
[00:13:52.040 --> 00:14:02.040] So right around the time I was getting ready to graduate, the county instructed a new private school that was being built that they had to award a single full scholarship to a student at Head Start.
[00:14:02.040 --> 00:14:03.320] There was an interview process.
[00:14:03.320 --> 00:14:10.600] They met with the families, they met with the children, and my family and I were selected for that full scholarship.
[00:14:10.600 --> 00:14:29.680] What that meant is that I had the opportunity to go from a very familiar background of, you know, people are dealing with the same problems, people are dealing with the same economic reality to a completely new experience where I heard the word cul-de-sac for the first time.
[00:14:29.680 --> 00:14:36.480] I saw a lot of folks, right, with the playgrounds and the play sets that I saw on TV in their own backyard.
[00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:43.680] This idea of people having soccer practice and being able to go on vacation, that was very foreign to me.
[00:14:43.920 --> 00:14:56.720] And so, from a very, very young age, it became very clear that, you know, depending on who you are and depending on where you come from, you might have a very different experience with the way that you lead your life.
[00:14:56.720 --> 00:15:02.160] And a lot of that is heavily influenced by what you have economic access to, right?
[00:15:02.160 --> 00:15:08.800] You know, my parents were working multiple jobs, whereas my classmates' parents might have had one really well-paying job.
[00:15:08.800 --> 00:15:23.920] And understanding that these differences make a huge impact on the children of the folks who are, you know, trying to make a living and make a life kind of became salient to me almost immediately when I was younger.
[00:15:23.920 --> 00:15:28.400] And of course, as I went through my experience, I still stayed in these private schools.
[00:15:28.400 --> 00:15:29.920] The kids just got richer.
[00:15:29.920 --> 00:15:38.880] I remember there was a kid that rented out a clubhouse at the Ravens Stadium, the Baltimore Ravens Stadium, and we had access to the stadium.
[00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:42.640] And it was a level of wealth that I hadn't comprehended.
[00:15:42.640 --> 00:15:48.880] I did not know that we could just walk into a football stadium for somebody's birthday party.
[00:15:48.880 --> 00:15:50.800] My family certainly couldn't do that.
[00:15:50.800 --> 00:15:53.360] And there's folks in my community that couldn't do that.
[00:15:53.360 --> 00:16:05.640] And then, of course, now being at Harvard, seeing that wealth even to another level where people are taking private jets to other countries for the weekend and coming back and doing classes on Monday.
[00:16:05.960 --> 00:16:24.120] So I think for me, the inequality that I've witnessed both here in the States, but also in Ghana, where I'm from, kind of made it clear to me that if we want a world that's more fair, if we want a world that's more equal, we have to be on the same page about the facts.
[00:16:24.120 --> 00:16:27.880] And a lot of times these facts are scattered, right?
[00:16:27.880 --> 00:16:31.960] So as an academic, it's my task to ask and answer questions.
[00:16:31.960 --> 00:16:37.160] So I'm on a treasure hunt for the answers to the questions that I have about inequality.
[00:16:37.160 --> 00:16:49.800] But I also recognize that there are people in my life, people in your life, that deal with inequality every day, but they don't have the luxury of time to look for the answers for why the inequality that they're facing is happening to them.
[00:16:49.800 --> 00:16:53.640] But also, how do they begin to address things that are unequal to them?
[00:16:53.640 --> 00:17:08.360] And so for me, this book really was born out of how do we bring all of the information that we know into the forefront, into one place, so that people have one place that they can refer to and say, actually, that is my experience.
[00:17:08.360 --> 00:17:10.040] And here's the data to back that up.
[00:17:10.040 --> 00:17:12.200] Here's what we need to do to move things forward.
[00:17:12.200 --> 00:17:13.720] Hey, I'm about to have a kid.
[00:17:13.720 --> 00:17:15.240] Have we thought about a paid family leave?
[00:17:15.240 --> 00:17:18.840] I read about it in the double tax that it does this X, Y, and Z.
[00:17:18.840 --> 00:17:31.160] So giving people the tools at their doorstep to advocate for themselves, to advocate against inequality, and to push for things that are more equal to them and that helps their life get much better.
[00:17:31.800 --> 00:17:35.640] That is, I mean, it's just amazing and incredible.
[00:17:35.640 --> 00:17:38.280] I feel like you were a kid with big questions.
[00:17:38.280 --> 00:17:45.280] Were you like that kid that was like, the other day, my six-year-old was like, so, like, how do the clouds get?
[00:17:45.600 --> 00:17:47.040] I was like, that's a dad question.
[00:17:47.040 --> 00:17:52.720] Like, but I can imagine you as a really curious child.
[00:17:52.720 --> 00:18:02.080] And I just, I don't know, I feel like you still have that energy about you, which I love because it's pushing you to find the answers to those big questions.
[00:18:02.080 --> 00:18:03.040] That's right.
[00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:07.760] Let's pause here to thank our sponsors who make these impactful conversations possible.
[00:18:07.760 --> 00:18:13.920] Now, while you wait, take a moment and ask yourself: what systems might you be navigating that weren't built with you in mind?
[00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:18.800] When we come back, Anna's going to share what we aren't being told about wealth building that we need to know.
[00:18:18.800 --> 00:18:20.160] It is so juicy.
[00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:23.120] So stay with me and we'll be right back.
[00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:26.880] This message is sponsored by Green Light.
[00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:30.800] My six-year-old woke up this morning asking if she could do chores to earn money.
[00:18:30.800 --> 00:18:31.440] Why?
[00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:35.680] Because she read a fancy Nancy book where Nancy worked to buy fabulous shoes.
[00:18:35.680 --> 00:18:41.120] And suddenly, my daughter wanted to experience the same pride of buying something special with her own money.
[00:18:41.120 --> 00:18:47.200] But here's what hit me: I had no good way to help her actually see and feel her money growing.
[00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:48.640] Cash gets lost.
[00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:54.640] Piggy banks are abstract, and she can't really understand the connection between effort and reward.
[00:18:54.640 --> 00:18:56.640] That's why we started using Green Light.
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[00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:26.240] And when she's ready for those fabulous shoes, she'll swipe her own card and experience that incredible feeling Nancy had.
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[00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:56.600] Let's talk about capital because I think this is really interesting.
[00:20:56.600 --> 00:20:59.880] One of my friends, Arlen Hamilton, is amazing.
[00:20:59.880 --> 00:21:00.920] She's amazing.
[00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:02.200] She's amazing.
[00:21:02.200 --> 00:21:05.400] And she has just been doing such big things with Backstage Capital.
[00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:06.200] I love it.
[00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:13.160] And so I feel like I've learned so much from her about this, but I want to talk about like access to capital because it's a huge challenge.
[00:21:13.160 --> 00:21:14.120] We've touched on it.
[00:21:14.360 --> 00:21:18.320] But what do we need to know about wealth building that we're not being told?
[00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:26.960] Like, how does this actually impact a listener of the show who is trying to start a business or wants to start a business or sees a friend struggling to start their business?
[00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:28.400] What is that about?
[00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:29.920] So I love this question.
[00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:31.360] I think it's such an important question.
[00:21:31.360 --> 00:21:33.520] So thank you so much for asking it.
[00:21:33.520 --> 00:21:42.560] What we're not really having an honest conversation about when it comes to wealth building is that people have different wells of wealth that they're pulling from.
[00:21:42.560 --> 00:21:43.840] So what do I mean by that?
[00:21:43.840 --> 00:21:50.560] I mean that my well of wealth that I can pull from is different from your well of wealth that you can pull from.
[00:21:50.560 --> 00:21:52.720] And of course, like I said, I'm a numbers person.
[00:21:52.720 --> 00:22:01.280] So I'm going to go ahead and lay out some numbers and then I'm going to connect it to an actual visual of what this means.
[00:22:01.280 --> 00:22:03.680] So according to the Federal Reserve Bank of St.
[00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:10.880] Louis, okay, this is part of our economic ecosystem that makes sure that our economy is healthy.
[00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:16.720] What they found in 2022 is that for every dollar of wealth a white guy has, right?
[00:22:16.720 --> 00:22:18.400] And by the way, we don't hate white guys here.
[00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:20.880] We're just, you guys have the benchmark right now.
[00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:23.600] So we're comparing everything to you.
[00:22:23.600 --> 00:22:26.640] White women have 78 cents.
[00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:27.840] Huge drop.
[00:22:28.080 --> 00:22:32.800] We're talking, you know, around, you know, 22 cents drop.
[00:22:32.800 --> 00:22:35.920] Hispanic women have 14 cents.
[00:22:36.880 --> 00:22:40.640] Black women have eight cents.
[00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:41.280] Okay.
[00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:53.520] So when we talk about different wells of wealth that people can pull from, right, when they're starting their business, when they're starting a venture, when they're even starting a nonprofit, right?
[00:22:53.520 --> 00:23:03.560] There's certain industries where if you don't have a well of wealth to pull from that is deep and expansive, you can't survive, right?
[00:23:03.560 --> 00:23:04.680] Like in life.
[00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:05.240] Good luck.
[00:23:05.240 --> 00:23:05.640] Yep.
[00:23:05.640 --> 00:23:07.240] Good luck, right?
[00:23:07.800 --> 00:23:13.640] And so the visual I want to kind of give people here is: let's say that we're on a racetrack, okay?
[00:23:13.640 --> 00:23:18.520] We're on a racetrack before the gun is fired, and the guy says, Ready, set, go.
[00:23:18.520 --> 00:23:19.800] He says, Hold on.
[00:23:19.800 --> 00:23:24.760] I want lanes two, three, and five to move up two steps.
[00:23:25.080 --> 00:23:28.840] I want lane five to move up an additional five steps.
[00:23:28.840 --> 00:23:33.640] Lane six, move up two more steps, right?
[00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:38.200] And then right before he says that, he said, okay, let's let the race begin.
[00:23:38.200 --> 00:23:40.200] Ready, set, go.
[00:23:40.200 --> 00:23:42.200] Tell me who's going to win that.
[00:23:42.200 --> 00:23:45.000] The person who's closer to the finish line.
[00:23:45.320 --> 00:23:56.520] And that is the point around wealth building: this idea that there's people who are closer to wells of wealth, to opportunities to build wealth than other people.
[00:23:56.840 --> 00:24:00.920] And unfortunately, that is tied up in the history of this country.
[00:24:01.240 --> 00:24:01.640] Right?
[00:24:01.640 --> 00:24:07.400] One of my most favorite pieces of research that's come out in the last five years is by a dear friend, Dr.
[00:24:07.560 --> 00:24:10.920] Laura Derencourt, and her wonderful co-authors.
[00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:14.680] And they call this paper the wealth of two nations.
[00:24:14.680 --> 00:24:25.000] Essentially, what they do is they document what we call the racial wealth gap, the difference in wealth between black folks and white folks from 1860.
[00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:30.680] That predates, by the way, yeah, the abolition of slavery all the way to 2020.
[00:24:30.680 --> 00:24:33.400] So right before the COVID pandemic.
[00:24:33.400 --> 00:24:46.880] And essentially, what they find is that in 1860, the wealth ratio, how many dollars of wealth white folks have to how many dollars of wealth black folks have, was nearly 60 to one.
[00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:49.520] What does that mean, y'all?
[00:24:49.520 --> 00:24:57.520] It means that for every dollar of wealth white folks had, black folks had almost two cents.
[00:24:57.840 --> 00:24:58.880] Almost two cents.
[00:24:58.880 --> 00:25:02.240] Now, I just told you in 2022 numbers, did I not?
[00:25:02.560 --> 00:25:04.160] Who was closer to that?
[00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:05.840] Black women.
[00:25:05.840 --> 00:25:12.240] They've only seen an increase by about six cents since then.
[00:25:13.120 --> 00:25:13.680] Right?
[00:25:13.680 --> 00:25:22.480] It's progress, but like, we're talking hundreds of years, right?
[00:25:22.800 --> 00:25:31.600] And so then the question of how does that trickle into other parts of your entrepreneurial journey, your journey as a business person?
[00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:37.760] Well, if you don't have a lot of capital to start with, capital begets capital.
[00:25:38.080 --> 00:25:43.760] How then can you invest zero dollars to make more money, right?
[00:25:44.080 --> 00:25:55.440] And what they find in their paper is that what has kept the racial wealth gap fixed at about six to one is that capital gains entered the picture.
[00:25:55.440 --> 00:26:00.080] This idea of people making money off of stocks, passive income off of investments.
[00:26:00.080 --> 00:26:01.920] I remember I spoke to a dear friend of mine.
[00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:04.160] I said, you know, what do you do now that you're retired?
[00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:07.360] And he said, I just manage investments.
[00:26:07.680 --> 00:26:09.280] And I said, I love that for you.
[00:26:09.280 --> 00:26:09.840] Yeah.
[00:26:09.840 --> 00:26:14.080] But the gag of the matter is women in general are not positioned to do that.
[00:26:14.080 --> 00:26:14.640] Yeah.
[00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:23.760] And women of color, especially black women, are definitely not positioned to do that because of the historical nature of wealth building opportunities in this country.
[00:26:23.760 --> 00:26:29.280] A lot of folks will say things like buying property, buying homes, if we're talking about, you know, personal wealth.
[00:26:29.280 --> 00:26:40.440] But we also know that the laws that have come into place that allow women to actually be active participants in society when it comes to wealth building, we're talking 50, 60 years old.
[00:26:41.080 --> 00:26:42.600] They just got here.
[00:26:42.600 --> 00:26:48.840] So this idea that, you know, there's certain people who have had hundreds of years in terms of a head start.
[00:26:48.840 --> 00:26:52.120] And now certain people are now getting their footing.
[00:26:52.120 --> 00:26:58.680] That is 100% going to impact whether you can get capital, whether you can be trusted with capital, right?
[00:26:58.680 --> 00:27:06.200] There's people who have years on you that have shown time and time that they can invest the capital and make it, make money back.
[00:27:06.200 --> 00:27:13.080] And it also means that your proximity to capital is still very limited, right?
[00:27:13.080 --> 00:27:21.640] And so I think there's a lot of people who beat themselves up of, oh my gosh, why am I not able to, you know, make a million dollars in revenue or have $100,000 in profit?
[00:27:21.640 --> 00:27:25.800] Perhaps it's because of the well of wealth that you even get to pull from.
[00:27:26.120 --> 00:27:33.160] Folks forget like folks like Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates have parents who had wealth.
[00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:39.400] That is what allowed them to take time from their jobs and build their business.
[00:27:39.960 --> 00:27:43.880] So the antidote to that, in my opinion, is to get in community.
[00:27:43.880 --> 00:27:49.160] If you can't get individual wealth to push you forward, get collective wealth.
[00:27:49.160 --> 00:27:50.840] Start pushing into that.
[00:27:51.480 --> 00:27:53.080] Pool resources.
[00:27:53.080 --> 00:27:57.320] Use that as a catalyst because no one is self-made here.
[00:27:57.320 --> 00:28:02.520] And that's probably going to be the last thing I mentioned on our podcast today, but no one is self-made.
[00:28:02.520 --> 00:28:05.000] Everyone started from something.
[00:28:05.320 --> 00:28:11.320] So if you feel like you have nothing to start from, try to link arms with somebody who might and move things forward.
[00:28:11.320 --> 00:28:11.960] Yeah.
[00:28:11.960 --> 00:28:12.760] I love that.
[00:28:12.760 --> 00:28:19.200] And I think there are some amazing pioneers out there who are helping that process.
[00:28:14.840 --> 00:28:19.680] Absolutely.
[00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:27.040] Like ushering it in with love and resources, which is exactly what we need.
[00:28:27.040 --> 00:28:42.800] You kind of touched on this, and I want to go even deeper on it because one thing that I love that you're passionate about is this role of caregiving and how, beyond capital, caregiving also disproportionately impacts women's earning potential.
[00:28:42.800 --> 00:28:45.520] And so, you know, I'm a mom, I'm juggling motherhood.
[00:28:45.520 --> 00:28:51.040] I have a lot of support with my sweet husband, but a lot of business owners are juggling all the things, right?
[00:28:51.040 --> 00:28:55.200] So, motherhood, their caregivers for their elders, I mean, all different things.
[00:28:55.200 --> 00:29:02.720] So, what are some ways that people could set realistic boundaries that actually protect their time and income?
[00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:08.720] Because, again, this is another way that the race car stays back while other cars move forward, right?
[00:29:08.720 --> 00:29:09.360] That's right.
[00:29:09.680 --> 00:29:13.440] So, let's maybe contextualize motherhood for a second.
[00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:16.640] Yeah, I'm not a mom, but I am friends with a mom.
[00:29:16.640 --> 00:29:17.920] I'm talking to a mom.
[00:29:17.920 --> 00:29:18.960] I have a mom.
[00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:20.400] My sister's a mom.
[00:29:20.720 --> 00:29:25.280] And I want to first and foremost acknowledge that motherhood is really, really hard.
[00:29:25.600 --> 00:29:28.800] It's harder than anybody is willing to say out loud.
[00:29:28.800 --> 00:29:31.840] I'm going to say it out loud to all of the listeners.
[00:29:32.240 --> 00:29:46.880] If you're a mom, this is me applauding you because it is a task, right, that a society puts on women and then simultaneously punishes women for.
[00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:48.240] Yes, yes.
[00:29:48.560 --> 00:29:57.840] And so, this idea that, you know, I say it like this: women are punished for choosing motherhood and also for not choosing it, right?
[00:29:58.160 --> 00:30:03.320] And this idea of protecting your time as a mother, it's a real thing.
[00:29:59.600 --> 00:30:09.160] So, if you feel like motherhood is extremely demanding on your time, you're not crazy.
[00:30:09.160 --> 00:30:14.680] There is evidence that folks have their days disrupted, right?
[00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:21.640] Because you're mothering and you get punished in the workplace because you're running late to work, right?
[00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:29.160] And if you decide to become a mom, you're paid less, you're promoted less, you're hired less.
[00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:46.680] And so, I just wanted to make room a little bit before we get into the solutions of the fact that the motherhood is so hard, and you all are doing an exceptional job of just navigating it in a society that is not graceful towards y'all.
[00:30:46.680 --> 00:30:51.960] And so, I just wanted to make space for that before I talk a little bit about how do we protect our time.
[00:30:51.960 --> 00:30:54.920] I think one of the things that, you know, I'm a policy person, right?
[00:30:54.920 --> 00:30:58.040] So, I study economics and policy at the Harvard Kennedy School.
[00:30:58.040 --> 00:31:03.640] And so, I'm going to talk about policy for a second and policies that I think you really should push for.
[00:31:03.640 --> 00:31:11.480] And then, I also want to talk a little bit about, you know, how you practically individually in your life and alongside your friends can also protect your time.
[00:31:11.480 --> 00:31:20.360] The policy that doesn't exist, that should exist, and it exists across like a bunch of other countries, is paid family leave.
[00:31:20.680 --> 00:31:22.120] We need it.
[00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:25.320] We've been needed it, okay?
[00:31:25.880 --> 00:31:36.920] Paid family leave says you have a child, you have an elderly person or someone you love that is sick or needs to be taken care of, you get paid, right?
[00:31:36.920 --> 00:31:43.560] You don't lose income from being a good human to your loved ones, right?
[00:31:43.800 --> 00:31:53.600] And so, paid family leave is something that is not federal, so that means that you know, across the government, they don't have to do it.
[00:31:53.600 --> 00:32:00.400] They have something called FMLA, which is this idea of, you know, you're off for a couple weeks.
[00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:03.680] It's like, usually like, you can let me know, like maybe like eight weeks or so.
[00:32:03.680 --> 00:32:06.960] I might be wrong about that number, but you're not paid.
[00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:07.440] Yep.
[00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:08.720] I think it's up to 12.
[00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:12.560] At least it was when I was in corporate, but I'm not sure if it's still up to 12.
[00:32:12.560 --> 00:32:13.680] You're exactly correct.
[00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:14.480] Yep.
[00:32:15.120 --> 00:32:23.840] This idea of paid family leave oftentimes varies from state to state, sometimes from business to business.
[00:32:23.840 --> 00:32:31.680] So here's how you protect your time: you push for that policy wherever you are, even if you decide that you don't want kids.
[00:32:31.680 --> 00:32:39.760] Because ultimately, paid family leave will translate to when your parents are aging or when you have family members aging.
[00:32:39.760 --> 00:32:47.840] If you decide to have a child, or even if you don't decide to have a child, that's something that could be, you know, eventually redeemed in other ways.
[00:32:47.840 --> 00:32:55.200] But ultimately, paid family leave protects your time and protects your income.
[00:32:55.200 --> 00:33:09.360] And so, this idea of that not existing anywhere across the board, like being mandated specifically, because it does exist, but it varies in time, it varies in how much of your income you get, et cetera.
[00:33:09.360 --> 00:33:10.320] That's a problem.
[00:33:10.320 --> 00:33:22.000] And so, pushing for that policy and who you vote for and what local leaders you elect and what policies in your workforce that you actually push for, that is critical.
[00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:23.760] So, that's the first thing I wanted to say.
[00:33:23.760 --> 00:33:29.200] The second thing I wanted to say is that there's also something called the child tax credit.
[00:33:29.200 --> 00:33:31.240] So, we're now talking about protecting your income.
[00:33:31.880 --> 00:33:39.480] So the child tax credit, depending on how much you make, you can get up to $2,000 per child.
[00:33:39.480 --> 00:33:43.800] And there are some other states that will even add on to that, right?
[00:33:43.800 --> 00:33:47.960] So this is part of an incentive for people to have kids, of course.
[00:33:47.960 --> 00:33:52.680] But in other countries, this is actually just part of the national policy.
[00:33:52.680 --> 00:33:57.560] If you decide to have kids, the government will give you money to help raise those kids.
[00:33:58.440 --> 00:33:58.920] Right?
[00:33:59.240 --> 00:34:06.200] So we're talking about income being protected here because I don't know if people know this.
[00:34:06.520 --> 00:34:10.040] Childcare is wildly.
[00:34:10.280 --> 00:34:12.120] So I was like, $2,000 does not go far.
[00:34:12.840 --> 00:34:15.080] It's even in a grocery bill, you know?
[00:34:15.080 --> 00:34:16.200] It's crazy.
[00:34:16.200 --> 00:34:17.320] It's great.
[00:34:17.320 --> 00:34:27.960] So when I was looking at the child care numbers, I think the numbers vary between like, I want to say it's at least, it can be up to a third of your income, is what I'll say.
[00:34:28.280 --> 00:34:28.840] Yeah.
[00:34:29.480 --> 00:34:32.040] And that's the base quality.
[00:34:32.040 --> 00:34:37.560] So if you want like really good quality child care, we're talking upwards of 40% of your income.
[00:34:37.560 --> 00:34:40.840] We know that for a lot of single mothers, this eats up their income.
[00:34:40.840 --> 00:34:47.160] For partners of, you know, people who are partnered, for women, it eats up their income a substantial amount.
[00:34:47.160 --> 00:34:51.240] And of course, that varies depending on race and class.
[00:34:51.560 --> 00:35:00.680] But I think what people need to realize is you need to vote for individuals who are going to push for something like the child tax credit.
[00:35:00.680 --> 00:35:07.480] You need to ensure with your community how you can collectively come together to help each other out.
[00:35:07.480 --> 00:35:10.360] Let me maybe share a personal story here.
[00:35:10.360 --> 00:35:17.040] In Ghana, where I'm from, when we say it takes a village, we literally mean that.
[00:35:13.720 --> 00:35:22.000] So, I think a lot of times, you know, in Western countries, there's a lot of emphasis on the individual.
[00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:25.280] You know, as an individual household, I'm taking care of my kid and this is my kid.
[00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:26.320] I understand.
[00:35:26.640 --> 00:35:41.040] But if you go into other parts of the world amongst the global majority, it's aunties, it's uncles, it's neighbors, it's sometimes religious leaders, depending on how involved you are with a particular religion, right?
[00:35:41.600 --> 00:35:43.600] It's older kids.
[00:35:43.600 --> 00:35:44.400] Yep.
[00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:47.200] And this kind of translated even when I was growing up.
[00:35:47.200 --> 00:35:50.000] My parents would drop me off at aunties and uncles' houses.
[00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:51.120] They would feed me.
[00:35:51.120 --> 00:35:57.440] They provided free child care because they knew that if they were in a similar situation, they could do the same.
[00:35:58.240 --> 00:36:09.200] I think another way to protect your time and your income is to get in community with other women who are also business owners.
[00:36:09.520 --> 00:36:25.600] And to say, how do we share this responsibility of not just being business owners that understand what revenue is, what capital is, et cetera, but also understand the demands of motherhood as we're navigating the business landscape.
[00:36:25.920 --> 00:36:37.680] So I would say those are some things practically, both from a policy standpoint, but also from an individual standpoint, that I believe can really help people protect their income and protect their time.
[00:36:37.680 --> 00:36:40.400] Yeah, I think it's so powerful.
[00:36:40.400 --> 00:36:46.160] And my dream is for people to get back into community.
[00:36:46.160 --> 00:36:52.640] I feel like we have gotten to be so separate that it is like we're all on these little islands.
[00:36:52.640 --> 00:36:54.480] And I don't think that's how it's meant to be.
[00:36:54.480 --> 00:36:56.240] I don't think motherhood is meant to be that way.
[00:36:56.240 --> 00:36:59.120] I don't think entrepreneurship is meant to be that way.
[00:36:59.120 --> 00:37:06.760] So I love that example because it's when you see it in motion and what it really represents.
[00:37:06.760 --> 00:37:07.160] Yes.
[00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:10.760] I believe that's how humans are meant to do life.
[00:37:10.760 --> 00:37:12.680] It's like together, right?
[00:37:12.680 --> 00:37:13.240] Together.
[00:37:13.480 --> 00:37:13.800] Exactly.
[00:37:14.440 --> 00:37:17.720] The collective is always more powerful than the individual.
[00:37:17.720 --> 00:37:24.680] And one African proverb that I know off the top of my head is they say that if you want to go fast, you go alone.
[00:37:24.680 --> 00:37:27.640] But if you want to go far, you go together.
[00:37:27.640 --> 00:37:35.320] And the intuition behind that is other people in the group might have a better way to get to the destination that you're trying to get to.
[00:37:35.320 --> 00:37:42.840] So having that wisdom around you, having that support around you, may get you further than you even thought was possible.
[00:37:42.840 --> 00:37:43.240] Yeah.
[00:37:43.240 --> 00:37:43.560] Okay.
[00:37:43.560 --> 00:37:44.040] Yeah.
[00:37:46.120 --> 00:37:49.400] I just want to say a quick thank you to our sponsors for supporting this show.
[00:37:49.400 --> 00:37:57.240] And hey, if this conversation is resonating, consider sending it to a friend, a fellow business owner, or really anyone who needs to hear that they're not alone.
[00:37:57.240 --> 00:38:04.200] Coming up, Anna shares powerful ways we can move from surviving inequality to actively solving it together.
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[00:41:19.560 --> 00:41:25.240] So, here's my big question for you because I subscribe and understand everything you're saying.
[00:41:25.240 --> 00:41:29.320] And I think that people that are listening, it's like, well, now what?
[00:41:29.320 --> 00:41:29.480] Right?
[00:41:29.800 --> 00:41:32.280] We see the numbers, the writing's on the wall.
[00:41:32.760 --> 00:41:35.960] How do we help solve it, not just survive it?
[00:41:35.960 --> 00:41:43.880] Like, what are some tactical ways that we can come together in community that white women can support black women and vice versa?
[00:41:43.880 --> 00:41:46.440] Like, how, what does that look like lived out?
[00:41:46.440 --> 00:41:47.880] I guess is my question.
[00:41:48.200 --> 00:41:52.600] Yeah, I think that there are a couple ways that that can take place.
[00:41:52.920 --> 00:42:05.200] And what I want to start off with is: one, when we say get into community, what we don't mean is post-black squares.
[00:42:05.520 --> 00:42:05.840] Right?
[00:42:06.440 --> 00:42:06.960] Yeah.
[00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:22.240] Not saying that solidarity is bad or anything, or showing that you care is a bad thing, but showing that you care and actually caring are two different things, right?
[00:42:22.560 --> 00:42:25.440] So I think a lot of times people try to overcomplicate it.
[00:42:25.440 --> 00:42:30.400] They say, you know, am I supposed to do, you know, this and that and this and that?
[00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:32.240] It's actually a lot simpler than that.
[00:42:32.560 --> 00:42:37.760] I always tell people it's about just being a good human being to your fellow human being.
[00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:48.080] It means leading with empathy and understanding that in some cases, your experience is not going to be the center of attention.
[00:42:48.080 --> 00:42:53.680] And sometimes it's not even the best benchmark for how we should progress.
[00:42:53.680 --> 00:43:06.800] I think a lot of times when we have conversations about gender equality, you'll notice that a lot of the women who will be on these stages will come from a certain background, you know, will look a certain way, they'll go to a certain school.
[00:43:06.800 --> 00:43:26.720] And it misses all the other stories that are needed in order for us to better understand the depths of the inequality that we face and the solutions that lie, namely, in our lived experiences, right?
[00:43:26.720 --> 00:43:34.880] It's not beneficial to only have Harvard grads on stage when people go to community colleges or don't even go to college at all.
[00:43:34.880 --> 00:43:36.960] We need those stories as well.
[00:43:36.960 --> 00:43:41.440] And so I think when we talk about solidarity, that's a great place to start.
[00:43:41.440 --> 00:43:45.920] It means showing up for the women in your neighborhood.
[00:43:45.920 --> 00:43:48.480] And it can be as simple as just checking in.
[00:43:48.800 --> 00:43:51.280] You go to your neighbor, hey, how are you doing?
[00:43:51.920 --> 00:43:53.440] How's everything going?
[00:43:53.440 --> 00:43:55.040] How are the kids?
[00:43:55.360 --> 00:43:57.560] Is there anything I can help you with?
[00:43:57.560 --> 00:43:58.000] Right?
[00:43:58.000 --> 00:43:59.760] Is there any way I can help support you?
[00:43:59.880 --> 00:44:02.040] I also need some support, asking for support.
[00:44:02.200 --> 00:44:06.280] I think a lot of times women are really afraid to ask for help.
[00:44:06.600 --> 00:44:14.040] And a lot of that is because of the way that society has told us that, you know, asking for help makes us look weak, right?
[00:44:14.360 --> 00:44:18.120] It makes us feel like, oh, like we weren't able to do it ourselves.
[00:44:18.120 --> 00:44:22.760] But as you just noted, were we meant to do it ourselves?
[00:44:22.760 --> 00:44:23.160] Right?
[00:44:23.160 --> 00:44:25.160] Like, no, I actually don't think so.
[00:44:25.160 --> 00:44:25.640] Yeah.
[00:44:25.640 --> 00:44:34.840] So I think that, you know, first and foremost, getting into community begins with really making sure that we hear everybody's story.
[00:44:35.160 --> 00:44:41.480] And then the next step there is to actually act based off of the stories that we're hearing.
[00:44:41.800 --> 00:44:48.680] So in the double tax, at the end of every single chapter, I have a section called Closing the Gap.
[00:44:48.920 --> 00:44:56.920] I think it's kind of reckless to tell people a bunch of problems and then not offer solutions.
[00:44:57.640 --> 00:44:59.720] I'd fire you if you were on my team, Anna.
[00:44:59.720 --> 00:45:01.880] I'd be like, don't come at me with all the problems.
[00:45:02.200 --> 00:45:03.480] Let's figure this out.
[00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:04.520] Let's figure this out.
[00:45:04.520 --> 00:45:05.080] I love that.
[00:45:05.080 --> 00:45:05.480] Right.
[00:45:05.800 --> 00:45:13.160] And so, you know, one thing that I want to note is there are a lot of solutions that are on the table right now.
[00:45:13.160 --> 00:45:14.680] I'm going to name a couple of them.
[00:45:14.680 --> 00:45:15.080] Yeah.
[00:45:15.080 --> 00:45:19.560] Because I have to sort of dig into what we can do.
[00:45:20.280 --> 00:45:24.040] One thing that I want to note here is for career paths, right?
[00:45:24.040 --> 00:45:25.960] I'm talking to women who are in business.
[00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:38.520] And what we need right now are people who donate and support programs, right, that increase access to job opportunities.
[00:45:38.520 --> 00:45:39.800] So, what do I mean by that?
[00:45:39.800 --> 00:45:47.280] I mean, if you know that there's a woman foundation in your state, I would donate some money towards it, right?
[00:45:47.280 --> 00:45:58.400] Because these women foundations, what they're doing is they're taking all the money that you are bringing to them and they're doning it out to smaller entrepreneurs, people who are just getting started, right?
[00:45:58.720 --> 00:46:02.240] As seed funding to get them on their feet.
[00:46:02.240 --> 00:46:08.000] So, when we talk about sisterhood, that's a great, tangible way to demonstrate that.
[00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:09.520] Let me give you another one.
[00:46:09.520 --> 00:46:16.640] The other thing that has been happening across the board is you're seeing a lot of anti-this policy, anti-that policy.
[00:46:16.640 --> 00:46:23.200] And a lot of those anti-policies are directly targeting people like yourself, right?
[00:46:23.520 --> 00:46:33.440] About 78% of the diversity seed funding that was awarded recently went to white women, actually, contrary to popular belief.
[00:46:33.760 --> 00:46:44.400] And so, that means that if they're attacking diversity funding, it's not just hurting me as a black woman, it's also hurting you, or also hurting other groups of women.
[00:46:44.400 --> 00:46:51.680] And this is kind of what we're talking about: how what happens to one group of women actually matters for all groups of women, right?
[00:46:51.680 --> 00:46:58.320] They're targeting one group of women, but you end up being the one who also doesn't benefit from that policy being cut.
[00:46:58.320 --> 00:47:03.120] So, fighting hard to ensure that those policies stay in place.
[00:47:03.120 --> 00:47:12.320] That can be through your vote, but that can be through direct advocacy, funding and supporting and volunteering at organizations that are directly fighting this.
[00:47:12.320 --> 00:47:14.240] That's one way to also tackle it.
[00:47:14.240 --> 00:47:28.080] The other thing that I want to note, too, because we're talking about entrepreneurs, we're talking about business owners, is that we talked earlier about the venture capital space and how underrepresented women are and how underrepresented women of color are.
[00:47:28.080 --> 00:47:32.120] Transparency is your best friend.
[00:47:32.120 --> 00:47:32.600] Okay.
[00:47:32.840 --> 00:47:34.200] What do I mean by this?
[00:47:29.440 --> 00:47:35.640] Talk to one another.
[00:47:36.280 --> 00:47:37.560] I'm begging you.
[00:47:37.560 --> 00:47:38.120] Yes.
[00:47:38.120 --> 00:47:38.680] Right?
[00:47:39.000 --> 00:47:41.560] Because you might have been getting one deal.
[00:47:41.560 --> 00:47:42.280] Yep.
[00:47:43.160 --> 00:47:46.600] But that might have gotten you out of another deal that you could have gotten.
[00:47:46.600 --> 00:47:47.000] Yeah.
[00:47:47.240 --> 00:47:47.640] Right.
[00:47:47.960 --> 00:47:50.840] And a lot of times this does vary across racial lines.
[00:47:50.840 --> 00:47:53.480] It does vary across class lines.
[00:47:53.480 --> 00:48:00.200] A lot of times, you know, I'm telling a friend of mine this recently: decisions get made on the margin, right?
[00:48:00.520 --> 00:48:02.200] Based off of relationships.
[00:48:02.200 --> 00:48:04.760] I know that's so cliche, but I'm telling you.
[00:48:04.760 --> 00:48:05.400] It's real.
[00:48:05.400 --> 00:48:06.040] It's very real.
[00:48:06.120 --> 00:48:06.920] It's real.
[00:48:07.240 --> 00:48:08.120] Very real.
[00:48:08.120 --> 00:48:08.680] Very real.
[00:48:08.680 --> 00:48:18.680] When we talk about admissions at Harvard, admissions at Ivy Leagues, it boils down to, you know, these two candidates are like, which one is more familiar to me?
[00:48:19.320 --> 00:48:19.800] Right?
[00:48:20.040 --> 00:48:25.720] Either in where they went to their institution, you know, what kind of clubs they were a part of in high school.
[00:48:25.720 --> 00:48:28.040] Was I part of the same high school clubs?
[00:48:28.040 --> 00:48:33.320] And then when, of course, when you get to the career ladder, that's pretty much the same thing that perpetuates.
[00:48:33.320 --> 00:48:45.080] Transparency is your best friend because if you're able to be in community and talk to people about the kind of deals you're getting, the kind of funding you're getting, one, you now have a pool of support that you can draw from.
[00:48:45.080 --> 00:48:47.400] There's things that you might have not even known existed.
[00:48:47.400 --> 00:48:49.240] Now you know it exists.
[00:48:49.240 --> 00:48:53.800] But two, you actually lift up the tie for everyone, right?
[00:48:53.800 --> 00:49:01.800] The rising tide that lifts all boats, because you've now sent a new benchmark that everyone now has to abide by.
[00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:05.560] If I say, for example, this is Jenna and I, we're both, we're both entrepreneurs.
[00:49:05.520 --> 00:49:08.120] Yeah, I got a million dollars in my deal.
[00:49:08.120 --> 00:49:09.960] And she says, I got 5 million.
[00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:11.880] And we exchange that information.
[00:49:12.360 --> 00:49:16.800] The next time I go and say, I'm pitching, I heard Jenna got 5 million.
[00:49:14.600 --> 00:49:19.120] My product is actually quite similar to hers.
[00:49:19.680 --> 00:49:21.920] Why are you benchmarking me at two?
[00:49:23.200 --> 00:49:29.280] Suddenly, that information becomes critical to the transaction, right?
[00:49:29.600 --> 00:49:39.040] And more importantly, because that information exists, the folks who are making decisions about what resources you get have to adjust.
[00:49:39.360 --> 00:49:40.560] They have to.
[00:49:40.560 --> 00:49:42.160] Otherwise, they look what?
[00:49:42.480 --> 00:49:43.920] Discriminatory.
[00:49:45.200 --> 00:49:48.240] If you don't want to suffer in silence, you got to talk.
[00:49:49.360 --> 00:49:52.000] At least in the business world, you have to talk.
[00:49:52.320 --> 00:49:55.680] And so I would say these are a couple ideas that I would suggest.
[00:49:55.680 --> 00:49:58.480] There's plenty more in the book, of course, to check out.
[00:49:58.480 --> 00:50:12.400] But for those who are in the business world, transparency, community, and making sure that you are sharing the wealth and not only centering your experience is critical to your success.
[00:50:12.400 --> 00:50:15.120] From what I've seen, this is from one entrepreneur to another.
[00:50:15.120 --> 00:50:15.520] Yeah.
[00:50:15.520 --> 00:50:16.480] Oh, I love that.
[00:50:16.480 --> 00:50:19.600] I think the transparency piece is so huge.
[00:50:19.600 --> 00:50:23.520] Like, I am an open book with so many people.
[00:50:23.840 --> 00:50:30.240] And it does, it paints the four-minute mile over and over and over again of what's possible because you're like, wait a minute.
[00:50:30.240 --> 00:50:34.320] Like, I remember one of my friends sharing her keynote fee, and you're like, wait, what?
[00:50:34.320 --> 00:50:34.960] That's possible.
[00:50:35.040 --> 00:50:39.600] You know, and it's like, if we can keep painting the four-minute mile, we can all run it together, right?
[00:50:39.600 --> 00:50:42.160] Like, so I think that's so huge.
[00:50:42.160 --> 00:50:49.600] And it's, I think, people that make you feel like you should be quiet with that, or the people that are winning because you're being quiet with it.
[00:50:49.600 --> 00:50:50.080] You got it.
[00:50:50.080 --> 00:50:51.000] You know, bingo.
[00:50:50.880 --> 00:50:51.160] Yep.
[00:50:51.360 --> 00:50:53.680] So, okay, we have time for one last question.
[00:50:53.680 --> 00:50:55.520] And this is a goodie.
[00:50:54.600 --> 00:50:59.280] Goody, you have seen behind the curtain of both power and policy, right?
[00:50:59.880 --> 00:51:07.640] And so, what is one truth about success, wealth, or equity that has changed everything for you, but nobody talks about?
[00:51:07.640 --> 00:51:09.720] I love this question.
[00:51:09.720 --> 00:51:14.280] And I love it because it gives me an opportunity to be very, very real.
[00:51:14.280 --> 00:51:17.640] I mean, I've been real this entire time, but to be even more real.
[00:51:17.960 --> 00:51:25.880] Anybody who says, anybody successful who says, I did this on my own, is a liar.
[00:51:26.200 --> 00:51:29.640] And I need you to hear me when I say that.
[00:51:29.640 --> 00:51:36.280] They're lying to you because, you know, I see self-made X, self-made Y.
[00:51:36.600 --> 00:51:39.160] Let me tell you why that's impossible.
[00:51:39.160 --> 00:51:43.800] In order for them to have gotten on that cover, there needs to be an assistant that booked that meeting.
[00:51:43.800 --> 00:51:45.160] There needs to be editorial.
[00:51:45.160 --> 00:51:46.440] There needs to be makeup artists.
[00:51:46.440 --> 00:51:49.720] There needs to be crew on site, photographers.
[00:51:49.720 --> 00:51:52.760] At minimum, the coverage alone is not self-made.
[00:51:54.680 --> 00:52:03.000] And so what I've learned is that there are people who will tap that lie because they want to take sole credit.
[00:52:03.000 --> 00:52:04.840] They want to elevate their status.
[00:52:04.840 --> 00:52:08.920] They want to say, oh, you know, like you can't do what I just did.
[00:52:09.240 --> 00:52:14.120] But I'm telling you right now, you get the right community around you, you might surpass them.
[00:52:14.120 --> 00:52:17.320] In my experience, right, you know, I'm 29 years old.
[00:52:17.320 --> 00:52:20.440] A lot of people look at me and they're like, what is going on here?
[00:52:21.320 --> 00:52:24.120] They're like, who is this person?
[00:52:24.120 --> 00:52:25.320] I get it a lot, right?
[00:52:25.320 --> 00:52:30.760] I just came from Essence Fest and, you know, I've done a couple opportunities here and there.
[00:52:30.760 --> 00:52:31.560] I spoke at the U.S.
[00:52:31.560 --> 00:52:36.520] Embassy in Germany a couple years ago, and I got to bring my dad, which was really fun.
[00:52:36.520 --> 00:52:40.440] And people will look at my life and they say, How on earth are you doing this?
[00:52:40.440 --> 00:52:42.040] And I said, I'm not.
[00:52:42.680 --> 00:52:44.280] We're doing this.
[00:52:44.520 --> 00:52:47.760] It's a huge community that's backing me right now.
[00:52:47.760 --> 00:52:56.880] I'm the face of it, but you will never see me on this God forsaken earth or whatever saying I did it by myself.
[00:52:57.200 --> 00:52:58.640] It's a lie.
[00:52:58.960 --> 00:53:14.800] Even someone like we're going to be talking about like Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates, they have teams, they have engineers, they have people who, you know, they might be saying the idea, but the people who construct it, who tinker with it, you don't see.
[00:53:14.800 --> 00:53:15.360] Right.
[00:53:15.680 --> 00:53:18.960] You know, even with influencers, I always say this too.
[00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:21.040] You're not seeing the crew behind the camera.
[00:53:21.040 --> 00:53:22.720] There's somebody filming.
[00:53:23.040 --> 00:53:27.040] I'm saying, even if they set up a filming thing, they had to get advice.
[00:53:27.040 --> 00:53:28.960] They had to talk to somebody.
[00:53:28.960 --> 00:53:30.720] That is what I have learned.
[00:53:30.720 --> 00:53:36.400] That anybody who I thought might have arrived on their own actually did it.
[00:53:36.720 --> 00:53:40.320] And it actually speaks to your character.
[00:53:40.320 --> 00:53:43.200] And I would argue to your future.
[00:53:43.520 --> 00:53:48.560] How much credit you give your community, the community that got you here, right?
[00:53:48.880 --> 00:53:53.840] I want to give a huge shout out with that in mind to the team that made this book possible.
[00:53:53.840 --> 00:53:55.120] We're talking about Adeline.
[00:53:55.120 --> 00:53:56.400] We're talking about Aisha.
[00:53:56.400 --> 00:54:12.240] We're talking about Alexa, Kaylee, the literary team, the publicity team, the marketing team, the editorial team, my parents, my family, my support system, my advisors who said, yo, why is she putting out another book?
[00:54:12.240 --> 00:54:14.400] So you would graduate.
[00:54:14.720 --> 00:54:21.760] All of my friends and people who have just supported me, folks like yourself, Jenna, who have seen the value of this.
[00:54:21.760 --> 00:54:22.560] Thank you.
[00:54:23.200 --> 00:54:28.240] Because this would be impossible if not for y'all.
[00:54:28.240 --> 00:54:32.520] And I think that that is really what I've learned about the journey to success.
[00:54:33.160 --> 00:54:41.720] If you allow yourself to be a vessel for other people to succeed through you, that success is just going to keep on coming.
[00:54:42.040 --> 00:54:45.240] It's the moment that you start to say, well, this is all me.
[00:54:45.240 --> 00:54:50.440] And you start shutting yourself off as a vessel for other people to thrive.
[00:54:50.440 --> 00:54:53.080] That is when you start to see the problems.
[00:54:53.400 --> 00:54:55.720] And I hope that I never see that.
[00:54:57.000 --> 00:54:58.120] That is so beautiful.
[00:54:58.120 --> 00:55:01.240] It reminds me of writing the acknowledgements in my book.
[00:55:01.240 --> 00:55:10.920] And like, I left it till the very last minute because the fear of forgetting just one person was what would keep me up at night, right?
[00:55:10.920 --> 00:55:15.080] Like, I could write anything else, but that piece of like, every, yeah.
[00:55:15.080 --> 00:55:16.920] Oh, that's so beautiful, Anna.
[00:55:16.920 --> 00:55:22.040] Where can everybody find you, connect with you, get your book, like learn from you?
[00:55:22.040 --> 00:55:25.160] I have to say, I feel like you are just getting started.
[00:55:25.160 --> 00:55:35.000] I mean, you've done a lot, and that's not a discredit to any of the incredible work, but like I see you on a freaking rocket ship, not the one that Elon Musk is flying.
[00:55:35.000 --> 00:55:36.200] I'm screaming.
[00:55:36.520 --> 00:55:39.880] That is going into another world.
[00:55:39.880 --> 00:55:41.080] Thank you so much.
[00:55:41.400 --> 00:55:49.880] Once again, I want to just thank you for this platform, for your sisterhood, and for just creating a community where conversations like this can thrive.
[00:55:49.880 --> 00:55:54.360] And so I just want to give you your flowers before I go ahead and close out.
[00:55:54.360 --> 00:56:00.840] So if folks are interested in what we talked about today, a lot of what we touched on is in this book called The Double Tax.
[00:56:00.840 --> 00:56:12.760] So, the double Tax digs into how much it costs to be a woman, why that bill runs highest for a lot of women of color, and what we can do as a community, as a sisterhood, to start bringing those costs down.
[00:56:12.760 --> 00:56:21.680] And for folks who want to engage with me on social media, feel free to follow me on Blue Sky or Instagram at its Afronomics, so I-T-S Afro-Nomics.
[00:56:22.160 --> 00:56:25.680] And then, if you're just interested in the kind of work that I do, annagifty.com.
[00:56:25.680 --> 00:56:33.040] I have my research on there, I have my book stuff on there, but I'm also just always down to have a chat with folks who might want to learn a little bit more.
[00:56:33.040 --> 00:56:37.680] We're going on tour as well, so I know this is coming out closer to when the book comes out.
[00:56:37.680 --> 00:56:45.360] So, we'll be on tour, we're going on a nationwide tour, and then, of course, if you're international, we'll be headed to the UK soon as well.
[00:56:45.360 --> 00:56:49.040] So, thank you so, so much for this platform, Jenna.
[00:56:49.040 --> 00:56:51.680] Thanks so much, Chrissy, for being behind the scenes.
[00:56:51.680 --> 00:56:55.040] And thank you so much to everybody who's been listening to our conversation.
[00:56:55.040 --> 00:57:01.600] I hope that it really touched you and hopefully it leads you to support another woman who's nearby.
[00:57:02.400 --> 00:57:09.680] Let me say, I have had a lot of guests on this podcast, and Anna is one of my favorites.
[00:57:09.680 --> 00:57:13.120] She's exceptional, she's incredible.
[00:57:13.120 --> 00:57:21.120] And the way that she breaks things down really helps you not just to have information, but to have useful information that you can take action on.
[00:57:21.120 --> 00:57:23.680] I want you to go support her book.
[00:57:23.680 --> 00:57:26.400] I want for you to go buy it and consume it.
[00:57:26.400 --> 00:57:29.200] And I want for us to come together in community.
[00:57:29.200 --> 00:57:34.080] Let's talk about the double tax and what we can do to help alleviate it.
[00:57:34.080 --> 00:57:37.600] Let's talk about how we can change the rules that everybody's playing by.
[00:57:37.600 --> 00:57:41.360] And let's continue conversations like the one Anna and I had today.
[00:57:41.360 --> 00:57:44.800] Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Gold Digger Podcast.
[00:57:44.800 --> 00:57:48.320] Until next time, keep on digging your biggest goals.
[00:57:48.640 --> 00:58:12.360] Thanks for pulling up a seat for another episode of the Gold Digger Podcast.com for today's show notes, discount codes for our sponsors, freebies to fuel your results, and so much more.
[00:58:12.360 --> 00:58:16.920] And if you haven't yet, make sure you're subscribed so that you never miss a future show.
[00:58:16.920 --> 00:58:19.320] We'll see you next time, Gold Diggers.