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[00:00:01.440 --> 00:00:05.440] Ever whispered, maybe I could create an online course someday?
[00:00:05.440 --> 00:00:10.240] And then you thought, nope, too overwhelming, too risky, and way too much tech.
[00:00:10.240 --> 00:00:11.840] That's you, I get it.
[00:00:11.840 --> 00:00:18.160] When I started, I had no clue where to begin, no extra hours, and no idea if anyone would buy.
[00:00:18.160 --> 00:00:20.400] Then I met Amy Porterfield.
[00:00:20.400 --> 00:00:27.120] She gave me a clear, doable path, and that someday dream became a profitable, sustainable part of my business.
[00:00:27.120 --> 00:00:31.600] Now I've built multiple online courses that earn while I live my life.
[00:00:31.600 --> 00:00:37.680] That's why I'm so excited to tell you about Course Confident, a live boot camp with Amy herself.
[00:00:37.680 --> 00:00:40.560] Four live trainings with one clear outcome.
[00:00:40.560 --> 00:00:49.360] Nail your profitable course topic, choose your type and price with confidence, and learn how to attract your future students without being glued to your screen.
[00:00:49.360 --> 00:00:52.240] You'll be in a private-driven community that gets it.
[00:00:52.240 --> 00:01:02.000] The doubts, the wins, the why is this so hard moments, the accountability, ideas, and encouragement you need to move from thinking about it to doing it.
[00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:05.360] Join through jennakutcher.com forward slash bootcamp.
[00:01:05.360 --> 00:01:15.120] And when you join, you'll also get my beginner-friendly mini course, The Pinterest Kickstart, which is your quick start guide to growing your audience and email list before you even launch.
[00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:17.920] $27 of value, yours free.
[00:01:17.920 --> 00:01:24.960] If you want more freedom, more alignment, and income you don't have to chase daily, this is your next right step.
[00:01:24.960 --> 00:01:26.720] We start September 11th.
[00:01:26.720 --> 00:01:31.600] Save your spot today at jennakutcher.com forward slash bootcamp.
[00:01:35.440 --> 00:01:38.960] Huge savings on Dell AI PCs are here.
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[00:02:03.480 --> 00:02:11.560] It's like having a personal assistant built right into your PC to cover the menial tasks so that you can focus on what matters.
[00:02:11.560 --> 00:02:15.000] That's the power of Dell AI with Intel Inside.
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[00:02:38.680 --> 00:02:43.640] Stories are 22 times more memorable than facts on average.
[00:02:43.640 --> 00:02:49.240] So if I can tell a story to illustrate my point, you're going to remember that point way more.
[00:02:49.240 --> 00:02:54.680] You're going to actually soak up the value that I'm posting way more than if I had just told you a fact.
[00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:58.520] I'm Jenna Kutcher, your host of the Goldigger podcast.
[00:02:58.520 --> 00:03:05.400] I escaped the corporate world at the age of 23 with nothing more than a $300 camera from Craigslist and a dream.
[00:03:05.400 --> 00:03:13.560] Now I'm running a seven-figure online business that feels even better than it looks all from my house in small town Minnesota with my family.
[00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:16.440] Here, we value time as our currency.
[00:03:16.440 --> 00:03:23.800] We mix the woo and the work, and we are in the pursuit of building businesses that give us the freedom to live lives that we love.
[00:03:23.800 --> 00:03:29.080] I've always loved turning big goals into reality, and I'm here to help you do the same.
[00:03:29.080 --> 00:03:31.320] This isn't just a peek behind the curtain.
[00:03:31.320 --> 00:03:35.000] Come along with me and my guests as we tear the whole curtain down.
[00:03:35.000 --> 00:03:42.440] Every week, we tackle practical, no-fluff marketing strategies and host honest discussions on what works and what doesn't.
[00:03:42.440 --> 00:03:48.080] Join me and my expert guests for actionable insights to help you grow your dream business with confidence.
[00:03:48.400 --> 00:03:52.880] Pull up a seat and get ready to be challenged, inspired, and empowered.
[00:03:52.880 --> 00:03:55.840] This is the Gold Digger podcast.
[00:03:56.800 --> 00:03:58.480] Is Instagram dead?
[00:03:58.480 --> 00:03:59.280] Far from it.
[00:03:59.280 --> 00:04:03.440] But if you're using it like it's 2021, then your strategy might be.
[00:04:03.440 --> 00:04:09.440] Brock Johnson is an Instagram growth coach, a viral content creator, and a trusted consultant to Meta.
[00:04:09.440 --> 00:04:15.280] Since launching his coaching, Brock has helped thousands of entrepreneurs and creators grow their platforms authentically.
[00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:20.400] In the past few years, his following has exploded to over a million across social media.
[00:04:20.400 --> 00:04:27.840] And now with over 40,000 members inside of his Instagram coaching membership, he is one of the most trusted voices in the space.
[00:04:27.840 --> 00:04:31.760] He's also a keynote speaker and an advisor to the very people behind the app.
[00:04:31.760 --> 00:04:37.840] Meaning, when Brock talks Instagram strategy, it's not just theory, it is straight from the source.
[00:04:37.840 --> 00:04:44.960] If you're feeling stuck, shadow banned, or like your content just isn't converting, this episode is your wake-up call.
[00:04:44.960 --> 00:04:56.320] We're digging into exactly what's working right now on Instagram, the big myths to ditch in 2025, and Brock's most powerful simple tips for growth, even if you have a small following.
[00:04:56.320 --> 00:05:02.080] Brock, I am so excited to welcome you to the Goldigger podcast and chat Instagram.
[00:05:02.400 --> 00:05:07.120] Brock, everybody is asking, is Instagram worth it anymore?
[00:05:07.120 --> 00:05:09.600] Like, what is your honest answer to that?
[00:05:09.600 --> 00:05:14.320] And what are small business owners getting wrong about the platform in 2025?
[00:05:14.320 --> 00:05:20.560] Yeah, of course, my answer is biased because I'm a firm believer in Instagram and I'm the Instagram guy.
[00:05:20.560 --> 00:05:25.680] But let me share some statistics from non-biased third parties that might help you out.
[00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:34.040] A recent study was published by Carrot Financial where they looked at how much money are people able to make from one single follower.
[00:05:34.040 --> 00:05:40.200] Like, what's the value in terms of how much these followers are worth actually becoming customers?
[00:05:40.200 --> 00:05:47.080] And what they found is on Instagram, the revenue generated per follower is higher than any other platform.
[00:05:47.080 --> 00:05:52.200] We're talking YouTube, podcast, Twitter, Twitch, TikTok, all of them.
[00:05:52.200 --> 00:05:53.560] Instagram was the highest.
[00:05:53.560 --> 00:06:02.840] So, from an independent third party, yes, statistically speaking, Instagram is the best place for entrepreneurs and small business owners and content creators to be.
[00:06:02.840 --> 00:06:05.080] Now, do I think that's the only place they should be?
[00:06:05.080 --> 00:06:06.760] No, but that's another conversation.
[00:06:06.760 --> 00:06:07.960] But Instagram is not dead.
[00:06:07.960 --> 00:06:09.160] Instagram's not going anywhere.
[00:06:09.160 --> 00:06:13.080] They recently hit 2 billion monthly active users.
[00:06:13.080 --> 00:06:15.560] So, yes, your followers are on Instagram.
[00:06:15.560 --> 00:06:21.640] I actually recently was doing some like live profile reviews and real reviews on my Instagram.
[00:06:21.640 --> 00:06:27.000] And I said, Let's review whoever is watching this live right now and is the oldest person in here.
[00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:28.680] And someone said, I'm 83.
[00:06:28.680 --> 00:06:29.720] And I said, No, you're not.
[00:06:29.720 --> 00:06:31.080] And I just passed them off.
[00:06:31.080 --> 00:06:31.480] Yeah.
[00:06:31.480 --> 00:06:33.720] And then she was like, No, I'm 83.
[00:06:33.720 --> 00:06:35.640] And everyone's like, Brock, she's 83.
[00:06:35.640 --> 00:06:37.080] Gladys is 83.
[00:06:37.080 --> 00:06:40.680] And Gladys has 100K plus followers on Instagram.
[00:06:40.680 --> 00:06:45.160] And I don't tell that story to hype up Gladys and say that she's like this anomaly.
[00:06:45.160 --> 00:06:52.840] There are plenty of people like Gladys, people of every age, shape, color, and creed who are growing, having success, and killing it on Instagram.
[00:06:52.840 --> 00:06:54.840] So, yeah, Instagram's the place to be.
[00:06:54.840 --> 00:07:01.240] And I also want to say this: some people hate video, but they could never do a YouTube video.
[00:07:01.240 --> 00:07:02.600] It's 30 minutes on camera.
[00:07:02.600 --> 00:07:03.880] They could never do that.
[00:07:03.880 --> 00:07:06.920] You don't have to put your face on camera to go on Instagram.
[00:07:06.920 --> 00:07:08.200] You can create carousels.
[00:07:08.200 --> 00:07:09.800] You can create text posts.
[00:07:09.800 --> 00:07:13.720] Some people hate copywriting, like they hate written text.
[00:07:13.720 --> 00:07:21.120] So maybe they would hate blogs, they would hate email marketing, they would hate Twitter and threads, but they would love the short form video aspect of Instagram.
[00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:35.680] So I really think the diversity of content, like all the different kinds of posts that you can make on Instagram, that's a real strength that they have compared to any other platform because there's nowhere else where you have as much freedom and flexibility as on Instagram.
[00:07:35.680 --> 00:07:38.160] Okay, I totally agree with this.
[00:07:38.160 --> 00:07:46.080] And I think that no matter how you prefer to create content, there is a way for you to create it on Instagram.
[00:07:46.080 --> 00:07:48.400] And I think that's really powerful.
[00:07:48.400 --> 00:07:55.280] But I also think that the way that we are approaching it and the way that we're creating on it has greatly shifted.
[00:07:55.280 --> 00:08:01.440] So what are three specific things that are working right now on Instagram in 2025?
[00:08:01.440 --> 00:08:05.840] Whether you're a small brand, you're a solo creator, you're somebody who's trying to build a following.
[00:08:05.840 --> 00:08:08.240] Like what are three things that are working right now?
[00:08:08.240 --> 00:08:10.160] All right, I'm going to give you the three things.
[00:08:10.160 --> 00:08:18.320] Two of them are going to be evergreen strategies, strategies that are going to work in 2030, strategies that worked in 2015.
[00:08:18.320 --> 00:08:24.000] And then the third one will be kind of like a juicy algorithm hack that is working right now.
[00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:29.760] It's working in 2025, but in the future, don't shoot the messenger if it's not working a few years from now.
[00:08:30.400 --> 00:08:32.960] So the first two strategies, the evergreen ones.
[00:08:32.960 --> 00:08:40.480] The first one is true on Instagram and it's true on pretty much every platform, which is that the more you niche down, the more you grow.
[00:08:40.480 --> 00:08:42.880] The riches are in the niches, so to speak.
[00:08:43.280 --> 00:08:52.640] And when I say niche, I'm specifically referring to the who, so the demographics of that ideal target follower, and the what.
[00:08:52.640 --> 00:08:58.800] What is it that you're specifically going to be talking about every single time you post or almost every single time you post?
[00:08:58.800 --> 00:09:00.120] That's how you stand out.
[00:08:59.680 --> 00:09:01.000] That's how you grow.
[00:09:01.320 --> 00:09:14.280] And that's not necessarily how you go viral and get 100 million followers, but that's how you get super fans, super loyal, engaged followers who interact every time you post and they can't wait to become customers.
[00:09:14.280 --> 00:09:22.200] Like you don't have to sell them, they're on the wait list and they're waiting for you to announce the new product and they can't wait to buy it as fast as they possibly can.
[00:09:22.200 --> 00:09:23.800] Taylor Swift level super fans.
[00:09:23.800 --> 00:09:26.280] Okay, so that's the first strategy, niche down.
[00:09:26.280 --> 00:09:28.760] The second one is hyper consistency.
[00:09:28.760 --> 00:09:29.080] Okay.
[00:09:29.080 --> 00:09:30.920] I used to teach consistency.
[00:09:30.920 --> 00:09:36.600] What I've learned recently is that hyper consistency is what's needed to really grow nowadays.
[00:09:36.600 --> 00:09:38.520] We're talking about growth right now.
[00:09:38.520 --> 00:09:41.240] The more you post, the more you grow.
[00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:44.680] There is a direct correlation, and multiple studies have shown this.
[00:09:44.680 --> 00:09:50.440] There's a direct correlation between how frequently you post and how much you are growing.
[00:09:50.440 --> 00:09:54.840] And yes, we're talking even up to dozens of posts per day.
[00:09:54.840 --> 00:10:00.280] There's one viral example right now of this like Bollywood celebrity account.
[00:10:00.280 --> 00:10:06.840] Like they're kind of like a TMZ, but for Bollywood, and they're posting literally 100 plus times a day.
[00:10:06.840 --> 00:10:09.720] I'm not telling everyone listening that they need to post 100 times a day.
[00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:11.880] I'm telling this story as an example.
[00:10:11.880 --> 00:10:18.680] They're posting 100 plus times a day and they're growing hundreds of thousands, if not millions of followers every single week.
[00:10:18.680 --> 00:10:20.840] One of the fastest growing accounts on Instagram.
[00:10:20.840 --> 00:10:25.400] Now, of course, we need to say, like, protect your mental health, don't burn out.
[00:10:25.400 --> 00:10:30.600] So, what I really like to tell people is ask yourself, what can I sustain?
[00:10:30.600 --> 00:10:33.560] Rather than saying, oh, hey, there's this Bollywood account posting 100 times.
[00:10:33.560 --> 00:10:35.000] I need to post 100 times.
[00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:43.080] Figure out what you can sustain and what your goals are in your current season of life and business and Instagram and all of that stuff.
[00:10:43.080 --> 00:10:49.120] So, with all of that being said, however, there is a direct correlation between post rate and growth rate.
[00:10:49.120 --> 00:10:50.800] So, the more you post, the more you grow.
[00:10:50.800 --> 00:10:52.720] Those are the two evergreen strategies.
[00:10:52.720 --> 00:10:53.840] Those are not changing.
[00:10:53.840 --> 00:10:55.600] Those are not going anywhere.
[00:10:55.600 --> 00:10:58.080] The third one is like the juicy hack.
[00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:01.440] That is trial reels, which I know you have, Jenna.
[00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:01.840] Yes.
[00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:06.560] Trial reels are something that needs to be abused while we can.
[00:11:06.560 --> 00:11:07.040] While we can.
[00:11:07.360 --> 00:11:22.480] Because, yes, because, like you said, while we can, because for people who are listening and they don't know what a trial reel is, it's this new feature that was released in December 2024, where, as Instagram said, you can post reels and we will not show them to your followers.
[00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:24.400] So, it's a lower pressure environment.
[00:11:24.400 --> 00:11:25.440] It's less stressful.
[00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:30.160] You can trial or test out your reels before showing them to the rest of the world.
[00:11:30.160 --> 00:11:31.120] Cool, right?
[00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:46.640] No, us marketers very quickly realized that this is an opportunity to not spam our followers, but have unlimited potential, unlimited at-bats to use a baseball reference to reach non-followers.
[00:11:46.640 --> 00:11:50.400] Like you're guaranteed to only reach non-followers with these reels.
[00:11:50.400 --> 00:11:59.440] And so, when I say abuse them, I mean literally post dozens, if not more, every single day, just all day long, over and over again.
[00:11:59.440 --> 00:12:01.280] You're not going to affect your algorithm.
[00:12:01.280 --> 00:12:05.360] You're not going to spam or overwhelm your existing followers.
[00:12:05.360 --> 00:12:07.840] You basically, I love using this analogy.
[00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:15.520] You're like a baseball player who's at bat, and the pitcher is going to throw 100 balls at you, but you're never going to strike out.
[00:12:15.520 --> 00:12:17.040] You can just swing every single time.
[00:12:17.040 --> 00:12:20.000] It doesn't matter how many strikes you get, you're never going to strike out.
[00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:21.360] So, just keep swinging.
[00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:29.600] And even if you miss 98 of them, if you have two hits, that's two times where you're reaching thousands or even millions of people.
[00:12:29.600 --> 00:12:33.560] There are some people growing super fast with trial reels right now.
[00:12:33.560 --> 00:12:38.600] So if you have access, like abuse that feature while we can because it's not going to be here forever.
[00:12:38.600 --> 00:12:39.080] Yes.
[00:12:39.080 --> 00:12:39.560] Okay.
[00:12:39.560 --> 00:12:43.800] Let's go deep on this trial reels thing because I think it's super interesting.
[00:12:43.800 --> 00:12:53.400] So one strategy that I've heard, and I want to know what you think about this, is if somebody's listening to this and they're like, Brock, I don't have time to create dozens of posts a day.
[00:12:53.400 --> 00:12:59.560] Going through your feed and finding your past top performers and re-uploading those.
[00:12:59.560 --> 00:13:07.320] And one thing to note here that I think is really smart to do is if you're doing that, you'll still have a caption just like you would if you have a regular reel.
[00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:16.440] Maybe adding in a little caveat or like a, here's who I am and here's what I do, because keeping in mind this is going out to people who don't follow you, who aren't familiar.
[00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:19.080] So is that a strategy that you'd recommend?
[00:13:19.080 --> 00:13:22.440] Yeah, I'll give like the basic strategy and then the high-level strategy.
[00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:22.600] Yes.
[00:13:22.680 --> 00:13:24.440] The basic strategy, yes.
[00:13:24.440 --> 00:13:26.600] Repost your trial reels.
[00:13:26.600 --> 00:13:30.440] So I've posted probably 100 or 200 trial reels so far.
[00:13:30.440 --> 00:13:32.360] Not one of them has been new.
[00:13:32.360 --> 00:13:36.760] Every single one of them has been a repost of something that worked well in the past.
[00:13:36.760 --> 00:13:40.440] Something that went viral, something that got a lot of views, a lot of followers, whatever.
[00:13:40.440 --> 00:13:41.400] Just reposting.
[00:13:41.400 --> 00:13:42.680] You've already done the work.
[00:13:42.680 --> 00:13:43.960] You don't need to do any more work.
[00:13:43.960 --> 00:13:46.280] And the cool thing is, these are non-followers.
[00:13:46.280 --> 00:13:48.440] So they didn't see it the first time you posted it.
[00:13:48.440 --> 00:13:50.840] So you might as well post it again.
[00:13:50.840 --> 00:13:56.280] Even I'm posting the same exact reel multiple times each day as a trial reel.
[00:13:56.360 --> 00:13:58.920] I don't need to wait until the next day to repost it.
[00:13:58.920 --> 00:14:01.400] That same day, I'm posting the same thing over and over again.
[00:14:01.400 --> 00:14:04.440] So that's kind of like the baseline, basic level.
[00:14:04.440 --> 00:14:11.400] Go through your camera roll or your Instagram and just pick out all of the reels that you have saved from the past and post them again.
[00:14:11.400 --> 00:14:16.160] The advanced strategy is to kind of do a deep dive into the numbers here.
[00:14:16.160 --> 00:14:18.720] And I love looking at your posts as data.
[00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:18.880] Yes.
[00:14:19.120 --> 00:14:24.480] But you can go through and what you'll often find, and I'm going to guess this is true for you, Jenna.
[00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:25.920] I know it's true for me.
[00:14:25.920 --> 00:14:31.200] My most viral posts are not necessarily the posts that get me the most followers.
[00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:32.400] Have you noticed that?
[00:14:32.400 --> 00:14:34.160] Yes, 100%.
[00:14:34.480 --> 00:14:35.040] Okay.
[00:14:35.040 --> 00:14:38.560] So, like, I did a study of my own best-performing posts.
[00:14:38.560 --> 00:14:46.240] My very best post with the most views ever got me way less followers than like my seventh most viewed post.
[00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:49.760] My seventh most viewed post got significantly more followers.
[00:14:49.760 --> 00:14:57.120] Like we're talking 300 followers from my most viral post versus like 10,000 followers from my seventh most viral post.
[00:14:57.440 --> 00:15:18.960] Well, then the advanced strategy would be rather than just reposting the most viral video as a trial reel, repost your most followed video or to get really specific, your best follow ratio, follow to view ratio as trial reels because those are the reels that have already proven to not just get views, but also to turn those viewers into followers.
[00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:26.480] And then I loved your little golden nugget about like reintroduce yourself or in the caption, write like a little, hey, I'm Brock, this is what I do.
[00:15:26.480 --> 00:15:27.520] Follow for more.
[00:15:27.520 --> 00:15:32.800] Just that little call to action, that little reminder in the caption can really convert a lot more people.
[00:15:32.800 --> 00:15:33.280] Yes.
[00:15:33.280 --> 00:15:42.640] One thing I've been doing is we're preparing for a launch and I was coming up with a bunch of different reels and ideas and I was doing alternate hooks.
[00:15:42.640 --> 00:15:54.000] And so instead of creating the full reel with the first hook and then re-recording it with the second one, I was just testing just the hooks overlaid on B-roll to see which one would perform better.
[00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:57.440] And then that was the hook I was going for for the fully produced reel.
[00:15:57.440 --> 00:16:01.000] So I think there are a lot of ways to collect insightful data.
[00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:02.520] And you can even split test things.
[00:16:02.680 --> 00:16:11.400] Like I was split testing professionally shot footage versus iPhone footage, footage of, say, your hands versus footage of your face.
[00:16:11.400 --> 00:16:18.920] And like just trying to kind of understand because let's talk about this because there has been a huge shift with the algorithm.
[00:16:18.920 --> 00:16:23.640] And I think it's like making people feel really uncertain, really unsteady.
[00:16:23.640 --> 00:16:37.240] And the people that are going to navigate this algorithm shift the best, I think, are the people willing to experiment and to kind of figure out, okay, what's hitting, what's landing, and also not just what's getting views, but like what's getting real results.
[00:16:37.240 --> 00:16:40.280] Like you said, like followers are worth more than views.
[00:16:40.280 --> 00:16:45.880] And so getting clear on like what is the goal of this post and how do I make more that achieve that goal?
[00:16:45.880 --> 00:16:47.720] So can we talk about the algorithm?
[00:16:47.720 --> 00:16:51.080] Because what the heck is going on in 2025?
[00:16:51.400 --> 00:16:53.960] Yeah, for everyone listening, you're not crazy.
[00:16:54.280 --> 00:16:58.440] The algorithm has had a very massive shift in 2025.
[00:16:58.440 --> 00:17:03.240] They do make little tweaks every single day, but every once in a while there's like a big change.
[00:17:03.240 --> 00:17:16.200] And this new one has been called the TikTokification of the Instagram algorithm, which, if anyone's listening and they're used to being a TikTok creator and posting regularly on TikTok, you know that on TikTok, the views go up and down.
[00:17:16.200 --> 00:17:25.560] Because on TikTok, they care a lot less about how many followers you have and they care less about who follows you and they care more about what do people want to see.
[00:17:25.880 --> 00:17:34.280] So just because I've followed someone on TikTok doesn't mean I'm going to see all their videos because maybe I'm not that interested in that topic at that moment.
[00:17:34.280 --> 00:17:45.840] Instead, what they've done and now what Instagram is mirroring is they're distributing content and they're showing people videos that they think would be peak or maximum engagement and interest.
[00:17:46.240 --> 00:17:49.040] Like, what are you most interested in?
[00:17:49.040 --> 00:18:01.200] Yes, you followed your uncle seven years ago on Instagram and yes, he just posted a photo of your cousin, but Instagram can predict, hey, you're not very likely to engage with that.
[00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:08.080] You're way more likely to engage with whatever your niche interest, topic, hobby is that is super engaging for you.
[00:18:08.080 --> 00:18:09.600] So what does this mean for us?
[00:18:09.600 --> 00:18:12.880] It means that views are less predictable.
[00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:13.600] They're more crazy.
[00:18:13.600 --> 00:18:15.440] They're more all over the place, more chaotic.
[00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:18.880] You're going to have a couple posts that are like, oh my God, should I help?
[00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:21.920] And then you're going to have a couple posts where you're like, oh my God, I am a celebrity.
[00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:22.800] Step aside, Mr.
[00:18:22.800 --> 00:18:23.440] Beast.
[00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:25.600] We have a new famous creator in town.
[00:18:25.600 --> 00:18:26.800] And that's going to be very normal.
[00:18:26.800 --> 00:18:28.720] So we're going to have to get used to that.
[00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:37.200] But the bigger change, and really what we need to be aware of is that your reels are going to be reaching a lot more non-followers.
[00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:42.080] They're reaching a lot more people who do not already see you, who do not already follow you.
[00:18:42.080 --> 00:18:53.200] So kind of like we were talking about with trial reels, I think it's super helpful for people to get in the habit of reintroducing themselves, whether it's an entire post dedicated to reintroducing yourself.
[00:18:53.200 --> 00:19:04.400] It's a sentence or two in your post, reintroducing you, maybe in the caption, or it's one of those posts that doesn't necessarily say, hey, I'm Jenna, I'm this old, and this is my podcast, and this is what I do.
[00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:15.360] Instead, it's just kind of like highlighting your values, your ethics, your beliefs, your morals, maybe your why or why you got into doing what you're doing for a living, telling your story, and those sorts of posts.
[00:19:15.360 --> 00:19:20.640] I would lean into those more for the next few months and really for the foreseeable future.
[00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:28.400] Because if you're meeting someone for the first time, they need to know who you are before they can really accept the value that you have to provide.
[00:19:29.360 --> 00:19:35.400] This podcast is brought to you by Mercury, banking that helps entrepreneurs do more with their money.
[00:19:35.720 --> 00:19:40.520] When I first started taking my business seriously, I remember feeling stretched thin.
[00:19:40.520 --> 00:19:45.720] I was juggling invoices, tracking payments, and managing cash flow across different tools.
[00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:49.160] It was messy, and I thought banking had to be that way.
[00:19:49.160 --> 00:19:51.560] That's why I was impressed with Mercury.
[00:19:51.560 --> 00:20:01.240] Unlike traditional banking that feels clunky and outdated, Mercury is designed to make managing money effortless so that you can focus on what actually grows your business.
[00:20:01.240 --> 00:20:09.640] Everything you need is in one intuitive product: banking, cards, spend management, invoicing, and more, all in one place.
[00:20:09.640 --> 00:20:13.000] Plus, Mercury flexes to fit all types of businesses.
[00:20:13.000 --> 00:20:18.440] So, whether you're a funded startup, agency, or e-commerce brand, it can be tailored to you.
[00:20:18.440 --> 00:20:23.480] Visit mercury.com to join over 200,000 entrepreneurs who use Mercury.
[00:20:23.480 --> 00:20:26.920] Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank.
[00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:30.280] For important details, check the show notes.
[00:20:31.560 --> 00:20:35.240] You know that sinking feeling when you see your latest campaign report?
[00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:39.160] 87% of your budget went to people who would never buy from you.
[00:20:39.160 --> 00:20:44.920] Random scrollers clicking your business course ad, students engaging with your entrepreneur content.
[00:20:44.920 --> 00:20:50.840] You're perfect ad creative about building sustainable income shown to people who aren't even trying to build a business.
[00:20:50.840 --> 00:20:53.080] That's why LinkedIn ads exist.
[00:20:53.080 --> 00:20:58.360] While other platforms guess who might be interested, LinkedIn knows who your buyers are.
[00:20:58.360 --> 00:21:02.200] Target the exact job titles, making purchasing decisions.
[00:21:02.200 --> 00:21:04.840] Reach VPs of marketing at growing companies.
[00:21:04.840 --> 00:21:07.560] Find HR directors at mid-sized firms.
[00:21:07.560 --> 00:21:10.440] Target entrepreneurs ready to invest in their growth.
[00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:13.160] Zero waste, maximum impact.
[00:21:13.160 --> 00:21:21.440] Stop hemorrhaging budget on random audiences and start reaching actual decision makers who can write the checks only with LinkedIn ads.
[00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:27.920] Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a free $250 credit for the next one.
[00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:30.720] Just go to linkedin.com/slash goal.
[00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:33.840] That's linkedin.com/slash G-O-A-L.
[00:21:33.840 --> 00:21:36.240] Terms and conditions apply.
[00:21:36.560 --> 00:21:37.440] Oh, yeah.
[00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:40.800] I think this is probably the biggest shift.
[00:21:40.800 --> 00:21:48.400] And I think this is where creators really need to pause for a moment and look at like their content strategy and how they're approaching it.
[00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:53.680] Because for a long time, we were able to approach it as like, hey, you already know this about me.
[00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:56.560] So here's the continuation of the story, right?
[00:21:56.560 --> 00:22:03.120] It felt like you could do a monologue broken up post by post, especially when it was back in the chronological good old days.
[00:22:03.120 --> 00:22:10.720] But nowadays, when we're actually really analyzing, like, wow, a lot of people who don't follow you might be seeing this content.
[00:22:10.720 --> 00:22:12.720] How do we make it make sense for them?
[00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:13.600] How do we make it land?
[00:22:13.600 --> 00:22:14.800] And how do we make it valuable?
[00:22:14.800 --> 00:22:19.680] And I think, Brock, this is like where you shine: you do such a good job.
[00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:30.720] And so talk to me about how you're thinking differently about the content creation process, knowing that people might be meeting you for the first time on every single piece of content.
[00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:33.120] Yeah, I think there's, first of all, thank you.
[00:22:33.120 --> 00:22:37.280] I'm trying to mix in more storytelling into my reels.
[00:22:37.280 --> 00:22:46.560] I'm not necessarily telling a long, drawn-out story, but I also know that stories are 22 times more memorable than facts on average.
[00:22:46.560 --> 00:22:52.320] So, if I can tell a story to illustrate my point, you're going to remember that point way more.
[00:22:52.320 --> 00:22:57.440] You're going to actually soak up the value that I'm posting way more than if I had just told you a fact.
[00:22:57.440 --> 00:23:03.640] Like, most people are probably forgetting the facts that I said at the beginning of this episode, but they're remembering the stories that we're telling in here.
[00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:09.720] So, try to incorporate more stories, but also, and this is going to sound really bad, and I hope it's not controversial.
[00:23:09.720 --> 00:23:11.880] dumb down your content.
[00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:20.440] I think oftentimes our ego tells us that we need to make our content super high-level, smart, intelligent, and flex our knowledge in every reel.
[00:23:20.440 --> 00:23:23.240] When the reality is, not our followers are dumb.
[00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:26.600] I'm not going to say that, but I'm going to say they're not paying attention, right?
[00:23:26.600 --> 00:23:28.520] They're watching with their brain turned off.
[00:23:28.520 --> 00:23:33.160] They're just scrolling, they're chilling, they've seen 10,000 other reels, and that's not an exaggeration.
[00:23:33.160 --> 00:23:35.400] They've seen thousands of other posts that day.
[00:23:35.560 --> 00:23:39.320] And so, you do not have their full undivided attention.
[00:23:39.320 --> 00:23:43.160] It's not like you're having a one-on-one consultation with them and they're taking notes.
[00:23:43.400 --> 00:23:45.640] They're watching a reel and they just watched a reel right before it.
[00:23:45.640 --> 00:23:47.240] They're going to watch a reel right after it.
[00:23:47.240 --> 00:23:49.400] And so, simplify your content.
[00:23:49.400 --> 00:24:03.960] Something I often do is if I have a script or if I have like bullet points, I'll pop them into our good old friend ChatGPT and I'll see if there's a way I can simplify it or like dumb down these words or write this at a fifth grade reading level.
[00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:11.160] Or I'll try to think: is there a synonym for this word that's simpler, that's more easily understood or more widely used?
[00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:14.520] Because I know that people aren't paying as close of attention.
[00:24:14.520 --> 00:24:16.920] And many of them have never seen me before.
[00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:18.680] They've never heard me talk before.
[00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:21.400] And so, it's important to kind of meet people where they are.
[00:24:21.400 --> 00:24:30.120] And I think when you simplify, you allow more people to consume your content and thus more potential views, followers, customers, yada, yada, yada.
[00:24:30.120 --> 00:24:31.080] I love this.
[00:24:31.080 --> 00:24:38.120] And I think one thing that I've had to work on so much with every piece of content is like assume that they know nothing.
[00:24:38.120 --> 00:24:42.200] And again, that's not coming from a place of saying your followers are dumb.
[00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:44.760] It's like assume that they have never consumed a single thing.
[00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:56.400] Like it's so easy for us to, if we're writing an email funnel, we see email one, two, three, four, and five, but you cannot assume that somebody opened one, two, and three, four before they got to five.
[00:24:56.400 --> 00:25:11.120] And I think the same goes with Instagram content: a lot of times, if you have created a system or a process around your content creation, you see the unfolding of the journey, but you forget that only a small percentage of your followers are seeing every single post.
[00:25:11.120 --> 00:25:15.440] I mean, I would argue that no percentage of your followers are seeing every single post.
[00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:23.440] And so it's like, how can our content stand alone, be powerful, get the result that we're aiming for with that piece of content?
[00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:31.040] And how can we assume that this is the first time they've heard of us, of what we're trying to talk about, of the offer of everything?
[00:25:31.040 --> 00:25:38.320] And that has been such a hard thing for my brain that loves to think sequentially: stand alone, stand alone.
[00:25:38.320 --> 00:25:46.880] And I think that is going to be a huge piece of this new algorithm, especially if our content is getting in front of more non-followers.
[00:25:46.880 --> 00:25:47.920] Yep, absolutely.
[00:25:47.920 --> 00:25:49.120] I couldn't agree more.
[00:25:49.120 --> 00:25:55.040] Okay, so one thing that I'm so curious about is you just got to interview Adam Assari.
[00:25:55.040 --> 00:25:57.680] So tell us who he is and why that was important.
[00:25:57.680 --> 00:26:10.320] But I want to know what was your biggest takeaway of what Instagram is focusing on in 2025 that can kind of give us the behind the scenes peek of like how we need to pivot what we're doing.
[00:26:10.320 --> 00:26:12.880] Yeah, so he is the head of Instagram.
[00:26:12.880 --> 00:26:21.520] You and I were talking off air and we're like, he's like a celebrity in our field, but if you're outside of that field, like Adam Moseri, that name means nothing to you, right?
[00:26:21.520 --> 00:26:23.280] Everyone knows Mark Zuckerberg.
[00:26:23.280 --> 00:26:25.920] No one knows his counterpart, Adam Moseri.
[00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:31.400] So I got to interview him, got to sit down and have a chat with him, which was really cool, really, really an awesome experience.
[00:26:31.720 --> 00:26:42.200] And he shared his three biggest priorities for Instagram in 2025, specifically as it relates to us small business owners and content creators and entrepreneurs.
[00:26:42.840 --> 00:26:48.680] One of them was helping the small creator break out, which I thought was really interesting.
[00:26:48.680 --> 00:26:54.120] They really want to push and help these people who have smaller accounts.
[00:26:54.120 --> 00:26:57.320] And however, you define smaller accounts, I think it's a sliding scale.
[00:26:57.320 --> 00:27:01.880] I don't think it's like a hard cutoff that once you reach 10K, Instagram doesn't care about you anymore.
[00:27:01.880 --> 00:27:06.040] But basically, the smaller your account is, the more they're trying to push you out to more people.
[00:27:06.040 --> 00:27:11.400] And that kind of goes back to our conversation about more non-follower reach.
[00:27:11.720 --> 00:27:12.680] That's why we're seeing that.
[00:27:12.680 --> 00:27:16.600] For smaller accounts, woohoo, you're reaching more non-followers, more potential growth.
[00:27:16.600 --> 00:27:25.160] For larger accounts, like yours and mine, Jenna, that looks like a roller coaster of, hey, this reel was pushed out to a bunch of non-followers and they weren't interested.
[00:27:25.160 --> 00:27:26.600] And so it didn't do very well.
[00:27:26.600 --> 00:27:27.800] But I digress.
[00:27:27.800 --> 00:27:36.360] The second thing they said is a big priority for them is valuing original content, which is really something that they've been talking about since 2024.
[00:27:36.360 --> 00:27:40.440] They realize that there's too many of these, what they call aggregator accounts.
[00:27:40.440 --> 00:27:44.920] And the easiest example of this is like Sports Center or ESPN.
[00:27:44.920 --> 00:27:47.560] Like that is literally an aggregator account.
[00:27:47.560 --> 00:27:51.160] All of their clips are not footage that they have filmed.
[00:27:51.160 --> 00:27:59.480] It is viral sports clips, sometimes from professional sports, but oftentimes nowadays, you're seeing like a high school basketball game-winning shot.
[00:27:59.480 --> 00:28:05.640] You're seeing a youth football game where the kids are, you know, three inches tall and they're running around and it's like hilarious video.
[00:28:05.640 --> 00:28:07.240] They're bobbleheads.
[00:28:07.240 --> 00:28:18.320] That's the sort of aggregator account that Instagram is not necessarily trying to punish, but they're trying to reward the mom who took the video of the high school basketball game winning shot.
[00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:20.800] They're trying to reward the original creator.
[00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:22.800] So I do think that is awesome.
[00:28:22.800 --> 00:28:29.040] And I will say this does not apply to reposting your own stuff because you're still the original creator.
[00:28:29.040 --> 00:28:30.560] So you can repost your own stuff.
[00:28:30.560 --> 00:28:32.080] And I'm sure we'll talk more about that later.
[00:28:32.080 --> 00:28:33.760] So that's the second priority.
[00:28:33.760 --> 00:28:43.040] And then the third thing that they really want to prioritize, and this again goes back to the idea of the TikTokification of Instagram, is they want trends to happen faster.
[00:28:43.040 --> 00:28:49.840] And it was really enlightening to hear him say this because something I've been saying for years is spot trends on TikTok.
[00:28:49.840 --> 00:28:54.560] And then if you do them on Instagram, you'll be doing it two weeks before it actually pops off on Instagram.
[00:28:54.560 --> 00:28:58.800] And for so long, it was like the trends happen on TikTok and then eventually they make their way to Instagram.
[00:28:58.800 --> 00:29:01.200] That was even a joke on TikTok.
[00:29:01.360 --> 00:29:04.480] They would be like, I can't wait for Instagram to get this trend in three months.
[00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:08.160] And then they'd be like, I can't wait for YouTube Shorts to get this trend in three years.
[00:29:08.480 --> 00:29:11.760] But he said they want trends to happen faster on Instagram.
[00:29:11.760 --> 00:29:13.760] And I think we've already seen that.
[00:29:13.760 --> 00:29:14.880] Did you see, Jenna?
[00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:17.040] Have you seen his name is Ashton?
[00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:17.600] Yes.
[00:29:17.840 --> 00:29:20.480] The morning routine, dipping his face in the bowl.
[00:29:20.720 --> 00:29:25.440] Everyone from like a million to he's now with like 12 million followers.
[00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:27.520] He dumps his face in the Saratoga water.
[00:29:27.520 --> 00:29:30.480] He's doing push-ups on his balcony at three in the morning.
[00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:33.360] He went viral for his crazy morning routine.
[00:29:33.360 --> 00:29:36.480] That was a trend that originated on Instagram.
[00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:37.440] That was a meme.
[00:29:37.440 --> 00:29:40.960] That was a thing that is purely an Instagram thing.
[00:29:40.960 --> 00:29:52.480] And so I think we're already starting to see that trends are happening faster on Instagram and things are becoming Instagram trends, not just Instagram trends that were stolen from TikTok.
[00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:54.480] I think that's so fascinating.
[00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:58.800] Also fascinating, I don't have or use TikTok, which is funny.
[00:29:58.800 --> 00:30:02.040] I mean, I think I have an account, but I don't log into it.
[00:29:59.840 --> 00:30:03.080] I've never gotten into it.
[00:30:03.320 --> 00:30:14.200] And so I think what's been so interesting to me is like, even just noticing when I'm scrolling, like I am seeing so much content from people that I don't follow.
[00:30:14.200 --> 00:30:21.320] And it's been really interesting as both a creator and a consumer to kind of figure out, well, what does this mean for us?
[00:30:21.320 --> 00:30:26.840] Because I think for so long, it was like you build your following follower by follower.
[00:30:26.840 --> 00:30:28.920] You speak to them like they're family.
[00:30:28.920 --> 00:30:30.520] They know your dog's name.
[00:30:30.520 --> 00:30:34.040] They know what the inside of your house looks like, all these different things.
[00:30:34.040 --> 00:30:46.600] And so it's been this huge shift of like not only consuming content from all different types of creators, but also really thinking about, okay, from a strategy standpoint, how does this shift things?
[00:30:46.600 --> 00:30:53.400] One thing I'm curious about, Brock, is how are you utilizing the different media types on Instagram?
[00:30:53.400 --> 00:30:55.720] So let's start with Instagram stories.
[00:30:55.720 --> 00:30:56.680] Are those dead?
[00:30:56.680 --> 00:30:58.200] Is it a growth strategy?
[00:30:58.200 --> 00:31:00.440] How do we leverage our stories?
[00:31:00.440 --> 00:31:02.840] Yeah, love that we're talking about this.
[00:31:02.840 --> 00:31:06.200] Stories will not help you grow your following.
[00:31:06.200 --> 00:31:08.040] You could post a million stories a day.
[00:31:08.040 --> 00:31:10.360] They could be the best stories you ever made.
[00:31:10.360 --> 00:31:11.480] They're not going to help you grow.
[00:31:11.480 --> 00:31:13.400] And that's just simply because of the way they're made.
[00:31:13.720 --> 00:31:17.080] They're made to only reach your existing followers.
[00:31:17.080 --> 00:31:26.440] Yes, technically, someone can discover your account, they can click on your profile and then watch your stories before following you, but they didn't discover you through your stories.
[00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:28.280] So stories do not help you grow.
[00:31:28.280 --> 00:31:31.160] With that being said, stories have a purpose and they have a huge purpose.
[00:31:31.160 --> 00:31:36.920] And I believe that they really have two main purposes and two main different ways that you can use them.
[00:31:36.920 --> 00:31:40.040] The first one is to build trust.
[00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:45.280] Trust is the epitome of growing a brand online in 2025.
[00:31:44.840 --> 00:31:46.320] Trust is key.
[00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:51.840] It's the secret sauce because we've all gone through the last few years where we're all like, who can I trust?
[00:31:51.840 --> 00:31:52.960] Where can I get my media?
[00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:54.000] Where can I get my news?
[00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:55.280] Where can I get my info?
[00:31:55.280 --> 00:31:57.360] Who can I trust and believe in?
[00:31:57.680 --> 00:32:12.800] Now, especially with AI, the more real you can be, documentation over curation, posting multiple times a day on your Instagram story, and really just focus on taking people into your daily life and like what's going on, the highs and the lows.
[00:32:13.120 --> 00:32:17.120] That will help you build maximum trust through your Instagram stories.
[00:32:17.120 --> 00:32:20.400] Now, building maximum trust is not the same strategy.
[00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:24.160] It's not the same way that you're going to get the most possible views.
[00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:29.760] So the really cool thing about stories is it resets every 24 hours because your stories expire.
[00:32:29.760 --> 00:32:35.200] So you don't have to like choose one strategy and stick with it for seven months and then decide to change.
[00:32:35.200 --> 00:32:38.240] No, you can do something different on Tuesday versus Wednesday.
[00:32:38.240 --> 00:32:45.120] So with all of that being said, posting multiple stories every single day, documenting your life, maximum trust.
[00:32:45.120 --> 00:32:50.000] When you're ready to get your most viewed story ever, do the following strategy.
[00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:52.640] It's what I call the STD strategy.
[00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:55.840] And I call it that so that no one will ever forget the STD strategy.
[00:32:55.840 --> 00:33:01.520] So here's how you post an STD on your stories and thus get the most possible views.
[00:33:01.520 --> 00:33:08.240] And let me even say, before I tell you what the STD stands for, when would you want to get most possible views?
[00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:21.400] Well, when you are promoting something, when you have a new podcast episode, when you have a launch or a sale or a discount code, when you're doing a brand deal, a collaboration, a sponsored post, and you want to make sure that the brand has a great perception of you.
[00:33:21.400 --> 00:33:24.160] And they're like, wow, this creator crushed it for me.
[00:33:24.160 --> 00:33:26.480] So here's what an STD story looks like.
[00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:30.280] And here's what STD stands for: the S stands for single.
[00:33:29.440 --> 00:33:33.800] So just one single story frame.
[00:33:29.840 --> 00:33:36.440] So let all of your previous stories expire.
[00:33:36.760 --> 00:33:39.880] Don't post any more future stories for the next 24 hours.
[00:33:39.880 --> 00:33:43.880] 24 hours, you just have one singular frame on your stories.
[00:33:43.880 --> 00:33:44.680] That's the S.
[00:33:44.680 --> 00:33:47.800] The T stands for text heavy.
[00:33:47.800 --> 00:33:49.560] So it's not a video story.
[00:33:49.560 --> 00:33:51.480] It's not a talking head story.
[00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:58.520] It is a photograph or even just like a graphic that you can make in Canva or even make right there on Instagram stories.
[00:33:58.520 --> 00:33:59.960] And it's text heavy.
[00:33:59.960 --> 00:34:05.560] So I'm talking multiple sentences, if not multiple paragraphs of text.
[00:34:05.560 --> 00:34:16.200] Recently, not to go too high level for a second, but I have noticed there was a change where what used to work really well was just like a solid color background with lots of text.
[00:34:16.200 --> 00:34:18.520] That was the kind of text every story that worked.
[00:34:18.520 --> 00:34:20.920] Now I've noticed that better if there's a person in it.
[00:34:20.920 --> 00:34:33.400] So if like if my face is like in the corner and I'm kind of like YouTube thumbnail style, making a dramatic face that mirrors the vibe or the energy of the story, smiling or, you know, looking shocked or looking angry, whatever.
[00:34:33.400 --> 00:34:35.240] So that's a little distinction I've noticed recently.
[00:34:35.240 --> 00:34:37.640] But the bottom line, text every story, right?
[00:34:37.640 --> 00:34:40.440] Lots of text, multiple sentences, if not paragraphs.
[00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:43.720] And then the D is the most important part of the STD.
[00:34:43.720 --> 00:34:46.440] It's the most important part to make this whole thing work.
[00:34:46.440 --> 00:34:50.280] And it's DM automation, direct message automation.
[00:34:50.280 --> 00:34:51.080] That's the thing.
[00:34:51.080 --> 00:34:52.120] I know you do it, Jenna.
[00:34:52.120 --> 00:34:53.000] I know you're a fan of it.
[00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:59.880] It's the thing where you tell people, reply with this keyword, reply with this phrase, and I will send you this thing.
[00:34:59.880 --> 00:35:07.320] So you could post one and you could say, reply with the word pod, and I will send you the link to my new podcast episode with Brock Johnson.
[00:35:07.320 --> 00:35:08.920] You could do something like that.
[00:35:08.920 --> 00:35:18.240] And when people start replying, that is what really drives your views up to another level because Instagram and their CEO is, he said this many times.
[00:35:14.680 --> 00:35:19.440] The DMs are everything.
[00:35:19.600 --> 00:35:23.040] The DMs are what they're obsessed with at Instagram.
[00:35:23.040 --> 00:35:28.400] And they really believe that the DMs on Instagram are what separate Instagram from any other platform.
[00:35:28.400 --> 00:35:30.000] And I would agree with them.
[00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:36.000] But so when you're getting all these messages and when you're getting these DMs, the algorithm's like, oh my God, this is the best story ever.
[00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:38.080] Let's push it out to more people.
[00:35:38.080 --> 00:35:43.520] And that's how I can't quite guarantee it, but this is about as close to a guarantee as I will give you.
[00:35:43.520 --> 00:35:49.200] It could be, it might be, it probably will be your most viewed story ever.
[00:35:49.200 --> 00:35:50.000] Okay.
[00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:52.960] I love this and I love DM automation.
[00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:59.200] And I also just want to say for anyone afraid of it, I set up my own DM automation the other day.
[00:35:59.200 --> 00:36:00.400] It is so easy.
[00:36:00.400 --> 00:36:01.200] It is so easy.
[00:36:01.200 --> 00:36:07.840] We use both Brock and I use MiniChat, which is an approved partner of Instagram, but literally anyone can do it.
[00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:09.600] And I had been like afraid to do it.
[00:36:09.600 --> 00:36:12.560] And I was like, okay, literally, it is so quick and easy.
[00:36:12.560 --> 00:36:32.080] So if you are somebody who, and I think this is a good segue into the next part, is just talking about getting actual results from Instagram, because when people are so hyper-focused on followers and views, I think oftentimes they're missing where the actual monetary value comes in, which is how we kicked this conversation off is like, what are the results?
[00:36:32.080 --> 00:36:51.320] And if you are somebody who has a dream to get real results from Instagram, whether it's email subscribers, podcast listeners, leads, sales, purchasers, like anything like that, then having something like DM Automation that can help deliver that experience instantaneously without you manually having to do that.
[00:36:51.320 --> 00:36:52.640] It's going to be the fastest way.
[00:36:52.640 --> 00:36:54.320] And it's also going to be a better experience.
[00:36:54.320 --> 00:37:04.920] So let's talk about like, what is the best way to get actual results on Instagram in 2025, where we kind of let the vanity metrics go because we now know they're fluctuating.
[00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:07.320] They're more unpredictable than they've ever been.
[00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:11.080] Is it still possible to get real results from Instagram?
[00:37:11.400 --> 00:37:12.600] Yes, it is.
[00:37:12.600 --> 00:37:19.160] And I think it's actually more possible now than ever before because of these crazy fluctuating views.
[00:37:19.160 --> 00:37:22.200] It's tougher to go viral now than ever before.
[00:37:22.200 --> 00:37:25.480] But the good thing is, virality is never what I'm after.
[00:37:25.480 --> 00:37:31.800] I don't think virality should ever be your goal unless, I don't know, unless you want to become some viral clickbait influencer.
[00:37:31.800 --> 00:37:33.000] But I know that's not my audience.
[00:37:33.000 --> 00:37:34.360] I know that's not your audience.
[00:37:34.360 --> 00:37:36.920] You're listening to this podcast because you want results.
[00:37:36.920 --> 00:37:45.000] And the reason you're not getting results is not necessarily because there's something wrong with you or what you're selling or anything like that.
[00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:47.080] It's probably just in the strategy.
[00:37:47.080 --> 00:37:51.400] So going back to this conversation of DM automation, here's what most people do.
[00:37:51.400 --> 00:37:54.280] They make their promotional post, their sales post, whatever.
[00:37:54.680 --> 00:38:01.240] You know, they have a book a consultation for your new lashes or, you know, they're selling some digital product.
[00:38:01.240 --> 00:38:04.760] And then at the end of the post, they say, click the link in my bio.
[00:38:04.760 --> 00:38:05.000] Yep.
[00:38:05.160 --> 00:38:06.840] Or even worse, they don't put it in the post.
[00:38:06.840 --> 00:38:11.720] They just like tuck it away down in their caption and they say, click the link in my bio.
[00:38:11.720 --> 00:38:13.480] What are you implying?
[00:38:13.480 --> 00:38:18.600] You're not explicitly saying this, but you are implying to your followers that they should not engage with your post.
[00:38:18.600 --> 00:38:18.920] Yep.
[00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:20.680] You're telling them, go do something else.
[00:38:20.680 --> 00:38:22.280] Do not engage with this post.
[00:38:22.280 --> 00:38:23.480] So what's going to happen?
[00:38:23.480 --> 00:38:28.360] They're not going to engage, which means the algorithm is going to be like, oh, God, this post sucks.
[00:38:28.360 --> 00:38:31.800] Like, let's not show it to anybody because no one is engaging.
[00:38:31.800 --> 00:38:35.960] Everyone who's seeing it is either scrolling or they're clicking away and going somewhere else.
[00:38:36.520 --> 00:38:40.760] So that's where Jenna and I would recommend using something like Diem Automation.
[00:38:40.760 --> 00:38:42.680] ManyChat is the one we use.
[00:38:42.680 --> 00:38:46.160] There's like over a million people who use ManyChat, so it's totally safe.
[00:38:46.160 --> 00:38:50.800] And I'm glad you said it's so easy to set up because it is not a techie person.
[00:38:44.920 --> 00:38:50.880] Yes.
[00:38:51.920 --> 00:39:11.440] What I've tried to tell people is if you know how to like drag around a folder on your desktop, like if you can point and click, that's all you need to do because they've set it up so that you literally point, click, set up the trigger, the word that people are going to say, and then you drag and click what is going to be the response, and that's it.
[00:39:11.440 --> 00:39:12.080] You are done.
[00:39:12.080 --> 00:39:13.200] It's that easy.
[00:39:13.200 --> 00:39:22.320] So then what you can do is, instead of saying click the link in my bio, you can say comment the word pod, and I will send you the link to our new podcast episode.
[00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:29.360] Then you're actively telling people to comment, and everyone who does comment, they get the link served up to them on a silver platter, which is better for them.
[00:39:29.360 --> 00:39:34.640] They don't have to go hunting for it in your Lincoln bio and remember a discount code.
[00:39:34.800 --> 00:39:40.160] They can just get it served up to them right in the DMs, which, as we already talked about, Instagram's a big fan of.
[00:39:40.800 --> 00:39:42.240] And so you're getting engagement.
[00:39:42.240 --> 00:39:43.120] They're getting the links.
[00:39:43.120 --> 00:39:44.400] It's a win-win.
[00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:50.560] My posts that have DM automation significantly outperform even my average posts.
[00:39:50.560 --> 00:39:57.760] And when you compare my posts with DM automation, compared to when I used to say, click the link in my bio, it is night and day.
[00:39:57.760 --> 00:39:59.200] It's night and day.
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[00:42:37.600 --> 00:42:46.080] So we booked a house on Airbnb with a pool, enough space for each of us to actually get good sleep, and all of the little luxuries we didn't have at home.
[00:42:46.080 --> 00:42:56.400] But what really stuck with me wasn't just the house, it was all these thoughtful touches, fresh coffee waiting for us, local restaurant recommendations, even pool towels that actually smelled good.
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[00:43:48.400 --> 00:43:59.760] I love this so much because I feel like where we get it wrong is when we get so fixated on the vanity metrics and we kind of forget, like, what is the actual goal here?
[00:44:00.440 --> 00:44:09.160] And I think that there is such a disconnect where people are so close to throwing in the towel because all they've been focused on is the vanity metrics.
[00:44:09.160 --> 00:44:21.640] And I often tell people, I'm like, the posts that look like they're quote performing the worst, quote unquote, maybe it's the worst views or something, those ones are the ones generating the best results for me oftentimes.
[00:44:21.640 --> 00:44:28.280] And where it's connection and communication or ending up in the DMs where people can't visibly maybe see what's actually happening.
[00:44:28.280 --> 00:44:34.040] But there's so many ways that that success is fueled and the real ROI is there.
[00:44:34.040 --> 00:44:35.880] I have a question for you on this.
[00:44:35.880 --> 00:44:47.480] So how, if you were going to do certain, like a posting cadence, how often would you have call to actions in your posts that were like that using many chats, say for example?
[00:44:47.480 --> 00:44:50.920] And how often would you do posts that don't have that call to action?
[00:44:51.240 --> 00:44:58.120] This is an interesting question and one that I've been struggling to find the right, you know, amount for myself.
[00:44:58.600 --> 00:45:05.320] I probably have DM automation in close to 50% of my posts, maybe even more.
[00:45:05.320 --> 00:45:11.240] But what I do is I vary the, you could call it the aggressiveness of that DM automation.
[00:45:11.240 --> 00:45:13.080] So sometimes it's in the real.
[00:45:13.080 --> 00:45:16.840] Like I'm saying to the camera, comment the word blank and I'll send you blank.
[00:45:16.840 --> 00:45:17.240] Yes.
[00:45:17.240 --> 00:45:19.480] And sometimes you wouldn't even see it.
[00:45:19.480 --> 00:45:21.000] It's not in the reel.
[00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:23.400] It's not in the first couple paragraphs of the caption.
[00:45:23.400 --> 00:45:25.000] It's just kind of tucked away at the bottom.
[00:45:25.000 --> 00:45:28.920] Like, by the way, if you want to listen to the full interview, comment the word pod.
[00:45:28.920 --> 00:45:33.160] And so it's varying levels of aggression, but either way, it's there.
[00:45:33.160 --> 00:45:36.280] But for me, it's around 50% right now.
[00:45:36.280 --> 00:45:41.880] Natasha Willis is, she runs the school of bots and she's kind of like an expert when it comes to DM automation.
[00:45:41.880 --> 00:45:50.640] What she says is that, like, one out of every three or roughly 30% of your posts is kind of a sweet spot for how much you should have it.
[00:45:50.800 --> 00:45:55.600] But I also think it's going to vary depending on what your offer is and, you know, what season you're in.
[00:45:55.600 --> 00:46:03.280] If you're in a season of, hey, we're in a launch, we got to get as many customers or leads as possible versus, hey, we're not really promoting anything actively right now.
[00:46:03.280 --> 00:46:04.800] We're just coming off of a launch.
[00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:07.200] And so we kind of want to give our followers a breather.
[00:46:07.200 --> 00:46:08.480] Yeah, I love that.
[00:46:08.480 --> 00:46:10.560] Natasha has been on the show twice.
[00:46:10.560 --> 00:46:15.920] So we'll link up her episodes because she's a genius when it comes to this automation stuff.
[00:46:15.920 --> 00:46:26.640] One thing I'm curious about is: what would you say to someone who has, quote, tried everything on Instagram and they still aren't feeling successful on the platform?
[00:46:26.960 --> 00:46:40.640] The person who has tried everything on Instagram is not having success is the person who's going to the gym and doing one set on every single machine and wondering why they don't look like Arnold Schwarzenegger.
[00:46:40.640 --> 00:46:52.400] When you divide your efforts and you try out every single one of these little different things and you're not doing them for very long, like you're not sticking with just the quad extension machine every day for six months.
[00:46:52.400 --> 00:46:59.920] You're just kind of one rep over on quad extension, one rep over here on the booty blaster, one rep over here on bicep curls.
[00:46:59.920 --> 00:47:01.360] Of course you're not going to see results.
[00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:21.680] So what I often find is that people are busy chasing trends and the latest hack that some social media guru came up with and they're not staying steady with what is working and they're not staying steady with those evergreen strategies like niching down and hyper consistency and improving your quality, the basics, like we talked about earlier.
[00:47:21.680 --> 00:47:27.600] It truly is the basics, the not-so-sexy things that generate the sexiest results.
[00:47:27.600 --> 00:47:30.040] But the reality is, it takes a long time.
[00:47:30.040 --> 00:47:31.240] It's not overnight.
[00:47:29.680 --> 00:47:32.920] It's not going to be instantaneous.
[00:47:33.240 --> 00:47:40.680] The other thing that I will say is: if you, and I hear this all the time, Brock, I've been posting the exact same style of content.
[00:47:40.680 --> 00:47:46.040] My quality has not changed in the last three years, but I'm not getting the views I used to.
[00:47:46.040 --> 00:47:48.520] And I will say, that's exactly the problem.
[00:47:48.520 --> 00:47:49.560] You haven't changed.
[00:47:49.560 --> 00:47:50.760] You haven't kept up.
[00:47:50.760 --> 00:47:56.200] I think as entrepreneurs, the evergreen strategies, those are the things that we need to stick to.
[00:47:56.200 --> 00:47:59.080] The things that are proven to work, that's what we stick to.
[00:47:59.080 --> 00:48:08.840] But we need to be adaptable in our presentation, in our style, in the way we present things, in the way that we show up online, because trends do change.
[00:48:08.840 --> 00:48:10.280] User habits do change.
[00:48:10.280 --> 00:48:15.240] I remember, you know, 2021, Instagram Reels, it was all about lip syncs.
[00:48:15.240 --> 00:48:19.480] Like, remember back in the day, every reel was like a lip sync of a trending audio.
[00:48:19.480 --> 00:48:19.960] Yes.
[00:48:20.360 --> 00:48:23.160] And then nowadays, different things are more popular.
[00:48:23.160 --> 00:48:25.960] Maybe B-roll was really popular in 2024.
[00:48:25.960 --> 00:48:30.840] Maybe now you're seeing more talking head videos with like more advanced editing.
[00:48:30.840 --> 00:48:33.240] In the video game world, they call it the meta.
[00:48:33.240 --> 00:48:36.920] It's basically like it's not the written rules, it's the unwritten rules.
[00:48:36.920 --> 00:48:38.760] And these are what's always changing.
[00:48:38.760 --> 00:48:41.240] These are the things that are always adapting.
[00:48:41.240 --> 00:48:50.280] And as the audience, as the average person stops liking one thing and starts preferring one other thing, that's why it feels like the algorithm is always changing.
[00:48:50.280 --> 00:48:52.680] It's constantly having minor tweaks.
[00:48:52.680 --> 00:48:58.600] But what we're really feeling over time is the change in user habits and preferences and behaviors.
[00:48:58.600 --> 00:49:00.440] I think this is such a good point.
[00:49:00.440 --> 00:49:03.960] And I did something yesterday that I've literally never done in my career.
[00:49:03.960 --> 00:49:08.680] And I've just realized like you can complain about the algorithm or you can try different things.
[00:49:08.680 --> 00:49:13.320] And I think one thing that can be so frustrating is people are not willing to experiment.
[00:49:13.320 --> 00:49:17.440] Like they look at everything so black and white as like a success and a failure.
[00:49:14.440 --> 00:49:19.840] And you said this earlier, like everything is a data point.
[00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:23.360] Like it, it just gives you information to move you forward.
[00:49:23.360 --> 00:49:24.560] And so yesterday.
[00:49:24.880 --> 00:49:28.720] I hired a local video team to come over as two people.
[00:49:28.720 --> 00:49:34.800] And we knocked out, I think it was 20 videos in 30 minutes plus like 15 B roll shots.
[00:49:34.800 --> 00:49:39.360] And one thing that I realized in the process is like, one, I was investing in this.
[00:49:39.360 --> 00:49:41.680] So I was going to make it worth every penny.
[00:49:41.680 --> 00:49:44.240] But two, I had to really sit down and get really clear.
[00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:45.920] What are the videos I want to shoot?
[00:49:45.920 --> 00:49:47.280] What do I want to try?
[00:49:47.280 --> 00:49:49.120] How do I need to prepare for this?
[00:49:49.120 --> 00:49:57.120] And it held me accountable to one, trying something totally different just to see how it works, how it feels, and what the results are.
[00:49:57.120 --> 00:50:02.880] But two, preparing the content in a different way and looking at it from a totally different standpoint.
[00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:06.320] And I think that that is honestly required in 2025.
[00:50:06.320 --> 00:50:08.720] It's like we have to get curious again.
[00:50:08.720 --> 00:50:12.720] And if we want different results, we have to be willing to try different things.
[00:50:12.720 --> 00:50:16.240] I don't know if those videos are going to hit or if they're going to fall flat.
[00:50:16.240 --> 00:50:22.560] But if I don't try, I literally have no right to complain that Instagram is not working for me.
[00:50:22.560 --> 00:50:24.080] Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
[00:50:24.080 --> 00:50:32.720] I think another element of what you just described, which such a good idea and one that I am 100% stealing, 100% going to do, is it held you accountable.
[00:50:33.360 --> 00:50:43.120] And so even if someone's listening and they don't have the resources to hire a multi-person team to come over and shoot content, what if you just had like had your bestie hold you accountable?
[00:50:43.120 --> 00:50:45.680] What if you had your business partner hold you accountable?
[00:50:45.680 --> 00:50:53.680] What if you selected like one of your customers and you're like, hey, this is going to be weird, but I'm going to ask you to be my accountability partner and found someone like that.
[00:50:53.680 --> 00:50:58.800] I think that that is such a growth hack because we're always going to cheat ourselves.
[00:50:58.800 --> 00:51:04.600] You know, we're always like, I can't tell you how many times I've put on my calendar, like, I got to film some short form videos today.
[00:51:04.600 --> 00:51:04.840] Yeah.
[00:51:04.840 --> 00:51:05.880] I'm like, tomorrow.
[00:50:59.840 --> 00:51:06.680] Yeah.
[00:51:07.080 --> 00:51:07.560] Pass it off.
[00:51:07.960 --> 00:51:08.520] I'll do it tomorrow.
[00:51:08.520 --> 00:51:10.760] I'll do other things today, more important things.
[00:51:10.760 --> 00:51:14.280] But if we had someone else holding us accountable, you can't wait.
[00:51:14.280 --> 00:51:19.480] And like for myself, I have an editor who she expects eight videos from me every two weeks.
[00:51:19.480 --> 00:51:22.600] And so we get to that two-week deadline and I haven't made those videos.
[00:51:22.600 --> 00:51:24.120] I got someone holding me accountable.
[00:51:24.280 --> 00:51:25.880] So I couldn't agree more.
[00:51:25.880 --> 00:51:32.200] One other thing that I wanted to add here is with this idea of like experimenting and trying new things.
[00:51:32.200 --> 00:51:42.120] This comes directly from I recently had a conversation with not just the head of Instagram, but also the head of the Instagram for Business creative team.
[00:51:42.120 --> 00:51:47.320] So they're the official count that talks to business owners, small business owners, about Instagram.
[00:51:47.320 --> 00:51:48.600] They have like 20 million followers.
[00:51:48.600 --> 00:51:57.480] And I talked to the head of their team and he said, one of the biggest mistakes you can make is looking at your competitors for inspiration.
[00:51:57.480 --> 00:52:00.680] Because then at best, you're going to come in second place.
[00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:03.400] He said instead, I thought this was so good.
[00:52:03.400 --> 00:52:07.960] Look outside of your industry for inspiration and ideas.
[00:52:07.960 --> 00:52:10.040] And oh my gosh, this is such a creative video.
[00:52:10.040 --> 00:52:11.720] I got to remake my own version.
[00:52:11.720 --> 00:52:16.840] Because then you're not becoming a parrot of someone else in your industry.
[00:52:16.840 --> 00:52:24.360] You're taking an amazing idea and you're the first person in your space, in your niche, in your industry to show up with that kind of content.
[00:52:24.360 --> 00:52:28.520] So I thought that was such a juicy tip that he gave and I couldn't agree more with it.
[00:52:28.520 --> 00:52:31.560] Don't you also think that'd be so much better for our mental health, too?
[00:52:31.560 --> 00:52:34.920] That we're not like following and mimicking our competitors.
[00:52:34.920 --> 00:52:41.960] I just think, too, from a standpoint of like creativity and challenging yourself, of like, what is my take on this?
[00:52:41.960 --> 00:52:44.760] Or like, how would this even apply to what I do?
[00:52:45.040 --> 00:52:46.880] I think that's genius.
[00:52:46.880 --> 00:52:58.800] And also, when we think back to what Adam said about like one of their goals is like more original content, that would be way more original than jumping on to something else that has already been done a million times.
[00:52:58.800 --> 00:53:00.240] I love that.
[00:53:00.240 --> 00:53:10.240] Brock, what is one thing that a listener today could take action on to get some sort of result on Instagram, especially if they've been feeling frustrated?
[00:53:10.240 --> 00:53:12.640] Yeah, I will have two things.
[00:53:13.280 --> 00:53:17.680] Number one, I will say lean into shareworthy content.
[00:53:17.680 --> 00:53:21.040] Shareworthy content is what Instagram is optimizing for.
[00:53:21.040 --> 00:53:23.520] They want our posts to be shared more.
[00:53:23.520 --> 00:53:26.560] The kind of post that when Jenna sees it, she sends it to me.
[00:53:26.560 --> 00:53:30.480] That doesn't need the algorithm to figure out who would be interested.
[00:53:30.480 --> 00:53:36.080] That is a person who is interested, Jenna, sending it to me, another person who she thinks would be interested.
[00:53:36.080 --> 00:53:44.000] Now that post has doubled its viewers from one to two, and I am another ideal perfect target viewer for that post.
[00:53:44.000 --> 00:53:45.200] That's what Instagram wants.
[00:53:45.200 --> 00:54:02.560] And so the more we can create this shareworthy content, be it a relatable meme or a joke, something that relates to pop culture and your niche, something that is maybe breaking news or timely or trendy, those sorts of things are oftentimes very shareworthy.
[00:54:02.560 --> 00:54:04.080] Leaning into that would be huge.
[00:54:04.080 --> 00:54:07.280] I would also say just look back at your own post from the past.
[00:54:07.280 --> 00:54:15.520] And if you have a post or maybe multiple that got a significantly higher amount of shares, hey, there's your idea.
[00:54:15.520 --> 00:54:19.360] Recreate that or repost that because it's already been proven to work.
[00:54:19.360 --> 00:54:21.200] That's the tactical tip.
[00:54:21.200 --> 00:54:27.280] My second thing that I wanted to say, and this is really what I want to leave people with, is there was plenty of great info today.
[00:54:27.280 --> 00:54:28.640] There was plenty of great info shared.
[00:54:28.640 --> 00:54:35.960] There's plenty of unlimited amount of helpful Instagram tips and strategies and advice that you can find online.
[00:54:35.960 --> 00:54:41.800] However, the 

Prompt 2: Key Takeaways

Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.

Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...". 

Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive. 

IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}

Prompt 3: Segments

Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.

For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)  
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion

IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
  "segments": [
    {
      "segment_title": "Topic Discussion", 
      "timestamp": "01:15:30",
      "key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
      "segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
    }
  ]
}

Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.

Prompt 4: Media Mentions

Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:

Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)  
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)

DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names

IMPORTANT: 
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
  "media_mentions": [
    {
      "title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
      "category": "Book",
      "author_artist": "N/A",
      "context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
      "context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
      "timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
    }
  ]
}

If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}

Prompt 5: Context Setup

You are an expert data extractor tasked with analyzing a podcast transcript. 
I will provide you with part 2 of 2 from a podcast transcript. 
I will then ask you to extract different types of information from this content in subsequent messages. Please confirm you have received and understood the transcript content.

Transcript section:
will have two things.
[00:53:13.280 --> 00:53:17.680] Number one, I will say lean into shareworthy content.
[00:53:17.680 --> 00:53:21.040] Shareworthy content is what Instagram is optimizing for.
[00:53:21.040 --> 00:53:23.520] They want our posts to be shared more.
[00:53:23.520 --> 00:53:26.560] The kind of post that when Jenna sees it, she sends it to me.
[00:53:26.560 --> 00:53:30.480] That doesn't need the algorithm to figure out who would be interested.
[00:53:30.480 --> 00:53:36.080] That is a person who is interested, Jenna, sending it to me, another person who she thinks would be interested.
[00:53:36.080 --> 00:53:44.000] Now that post has doubled its viewers from one to two, and I am another ideal perfect target viewer for that post.
[00:53:44.000 --> 00:53:45.200] That's what Instagram wants.
[00:53:45.200 --> 00:54:02.560] And so the more we can create this shareworthy content, be it a relatable meme or a joke, something that relates to pop culture and your niche, something that is maybe breaking news or timely or trendy, those sorts of things are oftentimes very shareworthy.
[00:54:02.560 --> 00:54:04.080] Leaning into that would be huge.
[00:54:04.080 --> 00:54:07.280] I would also say just look back at your own post from the past.
[00:54:07.280 --> 00:54:15.520] And if you have a post or maybe multiple that got a significantly higher amount of shares, hey, there's your idea.
[00:54:15.520 --> 00:54:19.360] Recreate that or repost that because it's already been proven to work.
[00:54:19.360 --> 00:54:21.200] That's the tactical tip.
[00:54:21.200 --> 00:54:27.280] My second thing that I wanted to say, and this is really what I want to leave people with, is there was plenty of great info today.
[00:54:27.280 --> 00:54:28.640] There was plenty of great info shared.
[00:54:28.640 --> 00:54:35.960] There's plenty of unlimited amount of helpful Instagram tips and strategies and advice that you can find online.
[00:54:35.960 --> 00:54:41.800] However, the only real way that you are going to get better is by actually pressing post.
[00:54:41.960 --> 00:54:50.360] By just pressing post, not overthinking, not overanalyzing, not watching another course that's going to help make your videos 1% better, but posting.
[00:54:50.360 --> 00:54:54.920] Because what I think we do way too often is we judge our posts before they're out into the world.
[00:54:54.920 --> 00:55:00.040] That doesn't make any sense because we're all horrible judges of our own content.
[00:55:00.040 --> 00:55:04.440] How many times have we, all of us, myself included, I know this has happened to you, Jenna.
[00:55:04.680 --> 00:55:06.920] You've made a post and you're like, oh, this is so good.
[00:55:06.920 --> 00:55:08.440] You post it, crickets.
[00:55:08.680 --> 00:55:11.400] And then on the other hand, you have a post that you're like, I just whipped this up.
[00:55:11.400 --> 00:55:12.280] I didn't even think about it.
[00:55:12.440 --> 00:55:16.200] Like, I whipped it up, I posted it, and then I was like doing something else and I forgot that I posted.
[00:55:16.200 --> 00:55:18.760] And you check it a few hours later and you're like, holy crap.
[00:55:19.160 --> 00:55:21.480] This was my best post of the month.
[00:55:21.480 --> 00:55:24.360] So we're all horrible judges of our own content.
[00:55:24.360 --> 00:55:27.000] So stop judging your own content.
[00:55:27.000 --> 00:55:28.200] Just press post.
[00:55:28.200 --> 00:55:32.440] Let the world, let your audience and your followers be the judge and then learn from it.
[00:55:32.440 --> 00:55:34.280] If it did horribly, what could be fixed?
[00:55:34.280 --> 00:55:38.680] If it did great, what small pieces could you take out and apply to your future reels?
[00:55:38.680 --> 00:55:42.360] But at the end of the day, that's only possible if you just press post.
[00:55:42.360 --> 00:55:42.840] Yes.
[00:55:42.840 --> 00:55:44.120] Oh my gosh.
[00:55:44.120 --> 00:55:47.320] I'm going to link to your interview with Adam.
[00:55:47.320 --> 00:55:51.320] Can you give us a little taste of what is inside of that interview?
[00:55:51.320 --> 00:55:55.800] Just because I think people should finish this episode and go listen to that one.
[00:55:55.800 --> 00:55:57.320] You did such a good job interviewing.
[00:55:57.560 --> 00:55:59.880] But it was such an insightful interview.
[00:55:59.880 --> 00:56:09.880] And I also think when we as creators know what Instagram is prioritizing, we can play into that prioritization and reap the rewards of that.
[00:56:09.880 --> 00:56:13.880] And so, give us a little taste of what's going down in that interview.
[00:56:13.880 --> 00:56:15.040] It was really insightful.
[00:56:15.040 --> 00:56:17.200] I think that there was a lot of value to be learned.
[00:56:14.760 --> 00:56:20.320] I don't think there was necessarily anything that was world-shattering.
[00:56:20.480 --> 00:56:24.000] There might have been a few things that some people, it might rock their world.
[00:56:24.000 --> 00:56:34.960] But I think in general, and I told this to him after the interview was done off air: if I was to boil our conversation down to one sentence, it would be, everybody just calm down.
[00:56:34.960 --> 00:56:37.520] He really demystifies a lot of the algorithm.
[00:56:37.520 --> 00:56:48.880] He debunks a lot of myths, things about hashtags, things about posting and ghosting, things about how much do you need to be online, all of these different topics that freak us out, you know, as people trying to grow on Instagram.
[00:56:48.880 --> 00:56:54.720] But he really simplified it and made it very practical and very obtainable for having success on Instagram.
[00:56:54.720 --> 00:56:57.040] That doesn't mean easy, but it doesn't mean simple.
[00:56:57.040 --> 00:57:00.160] And so, yeah, I highly encourage anyone listening to check that out.
[00:57:00.160 --> 00:57:03.360] Okay, where can everybody find out more about you?
[00:57:03.360 --> 00:57:08.240] Follow you, listen to your podcast, check out your YouTube, give us all the places.
[00:57:08.240 --> 00:57:10.800] Myspace.com forwards.
[00:57:10.800 --> 00:57:11.840] No, kidding.
[00:57:11.840 --> 00:57:13.840] Rock11 Johnson is my handle.
[00:57:13.840 --> 00:57:15.360] Instagram is the best place to get connected.
[00:57:15.360 --> 00:57:16.960] I'm super active in my DMs.
[00:57:16.960 --> 00:57:27.120] If anyone listened to today's episode and they want to take a screenshot and post a story and tag Jenna and I, or they want to send me a DM and tell me what their biggest lesson learned was, that would be awesome.
[00:57:27.120 --> 00:57:29.520] I would love to connect with people in the DMs.
[00:57:29.520 --> 00:57:31.920] But if not, just a follow on Instagram.
[00:57:31.920 --> 00:57:35.840] I try to post multiple times every day with helpful tips and strategies.
[00:57:35.840 --> 00:57:43.040] So even if you only see one of my posts a week, you're going to learn something and you're going to feel a little bit more capable on Instagram because of it.
[00:57:43.040 --> 00:57:43.600] Awesome.
[00:57:43.600 --> 00:57:50.160] And your podcast is Build Your Tribe, available on YouTube and Spotify and all the other podcast apps.
[00:57:50.160 --> 00:57:50.640] Awesome.
[00:57:50.640 --> 00:57:53.200] Brock, you are one of my favorite creators.
[00:57:53.200 --> 00:57:55.680] I feel like you keep me in the loop better than anyone else.
[00:57:55.680 --> 00:58:00.600] You're like my friend that's like giving me the elbow nudge of like, hey, here's what's going on right now.
[00:58:01.160 --> 00:58:14.120] And I also just think for anyone that's feeling stumped or curious about like how to create today, just following Brock will give you kind of a blueprint and a roadmap of looking at, okay, this is what I can try.
[00:58:14.120 --> 00:58:16.040] This is how I can make this work for me.
[00:58:16.040 --> 00:58:17.880] So definitely go out and give them a follow.
[00:58:17.880 --> 00:58:20.200] Thanks for coming on the show today, Brock.
[00:58:20.200 --> 00:58:20.600] Of course.
[00:58:20.600 --> 00:58:22.440] Thank you so much for having me.
[00:58:23.080 --> 00:58:29.160] Okay, this episode is exciting and terrifying in so many ways because Instagram is changing.
[00:58:29.160 --> 00:58:30.680] It's always been changing.
[00:58:30.680 --> 00:58:33.320] It literally changes every single day.
[00:58:33.320 --> 00:58:40.280] And so the way that we create and the way that we approach it as creators has to continue evolving, just like the app is.
[00:58:40.600 --> 00:58:52.520] What I think is interesting is it's going to really show us who is able and willing to keep up with it and who is okay with either underperforming or letting this piece of the business go.
[00:58:52.520 --> 00:58:58.040] One thing that I think is so important to evaluate when it comes to Instagram is: is the ROI there?
[00:58:58.040 --> 00:59:04.600] Is the return on your investment with both your time, your energy, and even your money worth it for you and your business?
[00:59:04.600 --> 00:59:08.360] And you need to be the CEO that knows the answer to that.
[00:59:08.360 --> 00:59:22.280] For me, my goal on Instagram is to connect with people there to get them off of the app and onto places where I can control their experience and serve them at a higher level, whether that's this podcast, my email list, or through the programs that I create.
[00:59:22.280 --> 00:59:35.800] And so, really getting clear on what are your goals on Instagram, what are you willing to do, what are you hoping to experiment with, and what actions can you take today will guide your strategy forward, even as the platform continues to change.
[00:59:35.800 --> 00:59:51.360] I also highly recommend following along with Brock because he is constantly dropping updates and keeping us in the loop as to what is working on the platform and leaning on the tried and true strategies that have been true for years and that are still true today, no matter what platform you're showing up on.
[00:59:51.680 --> 00:59:53.600] Thank you so much for listening to this episode.
[00:59:53.600 --> 00:59:58.400] If you know someone who could benefit from hearing this conversation, make sure you share it with them.
[00:59:58.400 --> 01:00:00.400] Just take a minute, hit the share button.
[01:00:00.400 --> 01:00:05.440] You're basically sending them strategy in a conversation that they can implement and take action on.
[01:00:05.440 --> 01:00:10.000] And of course, until next time, Gold Diggers, keep on digging your biggest goals.
[01:00:10.640 --> 01:00:14.320] Thanks for pulling up a seat for another episode of the Gold Digger Podcast.
[01:00:14.320 --> 01:00:23.680] I hope today's episode filled you with inspiration, gave you information that you can turn into action, and realigned you with your true north in life and business.
[01:00:23.680 --> 01:00:34.320] If you've enjoyed today's episode, head on over to goldiggerpodcast.com for today's show notes, discount codes for our sponsors, freebies to fuel your results, and so much more.
[01:00:34.320 --> 01:00:38.880] And if you haven't yet, make sure you're subscribed so that you never miss a future show.
[01:00:38.880 --> 01:00:41.280] We'll see you next time, Gold Diggers.

Prompt 6: Key Takeaways

Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.

Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...". 

Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive. 

IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}

Prompt 7: Segments

Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.

For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)  
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion

IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
  "segments": [
    {
      "segment_title": "Topic Discussion", 
      "timestamp": "01:15:30",
      "key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
      "segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
    }
  ]
}

Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.

Prompt 8: Media Mentions

Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:

Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)  
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)

DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names

IMPORTANT: 
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
  "media_mentions": [
    {
      "title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
      "category": "Book",
      "author_artist": "N/A",
      "context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
      "context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
      "timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
    }
  ]
}

If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}

Full Transcript

[00:00:01.440 --> 00:00:05.440] Ever whispered, maybe I could create an online course someday?
[00:00:05.440 --> 00:00:10.240] And then you thought, nope, too overwhelming, too risky, and way too much tech.
[00:00:10.240 --> 00:00:11.840] That's you, I get it.
[00:00:11.840 --> 00:00:18.160] When I started, I had no clue where to begin, no extra hours, and no idea if anyone would buy.
[00:00:18.160 --> 00:00:20.400] Then I met Amy Porterfield.
[00:00:20.400 --> 00:00:27.120] She gave me a clear, doable path, and that someday dream became a profitable, sustainable part of my business.
[00:00:27.120 --> 00:00:31.600] Now I've built multiple online courses that earn while I live my life.
[00:00:31.600 --> 00:00:37.680] That's why I'm so excited to tell you about Course Confident, a live boot camp with Amy herself.
[00:00:37.680 --> 00:00:40.560] Four live trainings with one clear outcome.
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[00:01:35.440 --> 00:01:38.960] Huge savings on Dell AI PCs are here.
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[00:02:38.680 --> 00:02:43.640] Stories are 22 times more memorable than facts on average.
[00:02:43.640 --> 00:02:49.240] So if I can tell a story to illustrate my point, you're going to remember that point way more.
[00:02:49.240 --> 00:02:54.680] You're going to actually soak up the value that I'm posting way more than if I had just told you a fact.
[00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:58.520] I'm Jenna Kutcher, your host of the Goldigger podcast.
[00:02:58.520 --> 00:03:05.400] I escaped the corporate world at the age of 23 with nothing more than a $300 camera from Craigslist and a dream.
[00:03:05.400 --> 00:03:13.560] Now I'm running a seven-figure online business that feels even better than it looks all from my house in small town Minnesota with my family.
[00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:16.440] Here, we value time as our currency.
[00:03:16.440 --> 00:03:23.800] We mix the woo and the work, and we are in the pursuit of building businesses that give us the freedom to live lives that we love.
[00:03:23.800 --> 00:03:29.080] I've always loved turning big goals into reality, and I'm here to help you do the same.
[00:03:29.080 --> 00:03:31.320] This isn't just a peek behind the curtain.
[00:03:31.320 --> 00:03:35.000] Come along with me and my guests as we tear the whole curtain down.
[00:03:35.000 --> 00:03:42.440] Every week, we tackle practical, no-fluff marketing strategies and host honest discussions on what works and what doesn't.
[00:03:42.440 --> 00:03:48.080] Join me and my expert guests for actionable insights to help you grow your dream business with confidence.
[00:03:48.400 --> 00:03:52.880] Pull up a seat and get ready to be challenged, inspired, and empowered.
[00:03:52.880 --> 00:03:55.840] This is the Gold Digger podcast.
[00:03:56.800 --> 00:03:58.480] Is Instagram dead?
[00:03:58.480 --> 00:03:59.280] Far from it.
[00:03:59.280 --> 00:04:03.440] But if you're using it like it's 2021, then your strategy might be.
[00:04:03.440 --> 00:04:09.440] Brock Johnson is an Instagram growth coach, a viral content creator, and a trusted consultant to Meta.
[00:04:09.440 --> 00:04:15.280] Since launching his coaching, Brock has helped thousands of entrepreneurs and creators grow their platforms authentically.
[00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:20.400] In the past few years, his following has exploded to over a million across social media.
[00:04:20.400 --> 00:04:27.840] And now with over 40,000 members inside of his Instagram coaching membership, he is one of the most trusted voices in the space.
[00:04:27.840 --> 00:04:31.760] He's also a keynote speaker and an advisor to the very people behind the app.
[00:04:31.760 --> 00:04:37.840] Meaning, when Brock talks Instagram strategy, it's not just theory, it is straight from the source.
[00:04:37.840 --> 00:04:44.960] If you're feeling stuck, shadow banned, or like your content just isn't converting, this episode is your wake-up call.
[00:04:44.960 --> 00:04:56.320] We're digging into exactly what's working right now on Instagram, the big myths to ditch in 2025, and Brock's most powerful simple tips for growth, even if you have a small following.
[00:04:56.320 --> 00:05:02.080] Brock, I am so excited to welcome you to the Goldigger podcast and chat Instagram.
[00:05:02.400 --> 00:05:07.120] Brock, everybody is asking, is Instagram worth it anymore?
[00:05:07.120 --> 00:05:09.600] Like, what is your honest answer to that?
[00:05:09.600 --> 00:05:14.320] And what are small business owners getting wrong about the platform in 2025?
[00:05:14.320 --> 00:05:20.560] Yeah, of course, my answer is biased because I'm a firm believer in Instagram and I'm the Instagram guy.
[00:05:20.560 --> 00:05:25.680] But let me share some statistics from non-biased third parties that might help you out.
[00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:34.040] A recent study was published by Carrot Financial where they looked at how much money are people able to make from one single follower.
[00:05:34.040 --> 00:05:40.200] Like, what's the value in terms of how much these followers are worth actually becoming customers?
[00:05:40.200 --> 00:05:47.080] And what they found is on Instagram, the revenue generated per follower is higher than any other platform.
[00:05:47.080 --> 00:05:52.200] We're talking YouTube, podcast, Twitter, Twitch, TikTok, all of them.
[00:05:52.200 --> 00:05:53.560] Instagram was the highest.
[00:05:53.560 --> 00:06:02.840] So, from an independent third party, yes, statistically speaking, Instagram is the best place for entrepreneurs and small business owners and content creators to be.
[00:06:02.840 --> 00:06:05.080] Now, do I think that's the only place they should be?
[00:06:05.080 --> 00:06:06.760] No, but that's another conversation.
[00:06:06.760 --> 00:06:07.960] But Instagram is not dead.
[00:06:07.960 --> 00:06:09.160] Instagram's not going anywhere.
[00:06:09.160 --> 00:06:13.080] They recently hit 2 billion monthly active users.
[00:06:13.080 --> 00:06:15.560] So, yes, your followers are on Instagram.
[00:06:15.560 --> 00:06:21.640] I actually recently was doing some like live profile reviews and real reviews on my Instagram.
[00:06:21.640 --> 00:06:27.000] And I said, Let's review whoever is watching this live right now and is the oldest person in here.
[00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:28.680] And someone said, I'm 83.
[00:06:28.680 --> 00:06:29.720] And I said, No, you're not.
[00:06:29.720 --> 00:06:31.080] And I just passed them off.
[00:06:31.080 --> 00:06:31.480] Yeah.
[00:06:31.480 --> 00:06:33.720] And then she was like, No, I'm 83.
[00:06:33.720 --> 00:06:35.640] And everyone's like, Brock, she's 83.
[00:06:35.640 --> 00:06:37.080] Gladys is 83.
[00:06:37.080 --> 00:06:40.680] And Gladys has 100K plus followers on Instagram.
[00:06:40.680 --> 00:06:45.160] And I don't tell that story to hype up Gladys and say that she's like this anomaly.
[00:06:45.160 --> 00:06:52.840] There are plenty of people like Gladys, people of every age, shape, color, and creed who are growing, having success, and killing it on Instagram.
[00:06:52.840 --> 00:06:54.840] So, yeah, Instagram's the place to be.
[00:06:54.840 --> 00:07:01.240] And I also want to say this: some people hate video, but they could never do a YouTube video.
[00:07:01.240 --> 00:07:02.600] It's 30 minutes on camera.
[00:07:02.600 --> 00:07:03.880] They could never do that.
[00:07:03.880 --> 00:07:06.920] You don't have to put your face on camera to go on Instagram.
[00:07:06.920 --> 00:07:08.200] You can create carousels.
[00:07:08.200 --> 00:07:09.800] You can create text posts.
[00:07:09.800 --> 00:07:13.720] Some people hate copywriting, like they hate written text.
[00:07:13.720 --> 00:07:21.120] So maybe they would hate blogs, they would hate email marketing, they would hate Twitter and threads, but they would love the short form video aspect of Instagram.
[00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:35.680] So I really think the diversity of content, like all the different kinds of posts that you can make on Instagram, that's a real strength that they have compared to any other platform because there's nowhere else where you have as much freedom and flexibility as on Instagram.
[00:07:35.680 --> 00:07:38.160] Okay, I totally agree with this.
[00:07:38.160 --> 00:07:46.080] And I think that no matter how you prefer to create content, there is a way for you to create it on Instagram.
[00:07:46.080 --> 00:07:48.400] And I think that's really powerful.
[00:07:48.400 --> 00:07:55.280] But I also think that the way that we are approaching it and the way that we're creating on it has greatly shifted.
[00:07:55.280 --> 00:08:01.440] So what are three specific things that are working right now on Instagram in 2025?
[00:08:01.440 --> 00:08:05.840] Whether you're a small brand, you're a solo creator, you're somebody who's trying to build a following.
[00:08:05.840 --> 00:08:08.240] Like what are three things that are working right now?
[00:08:08.240 --> 00:08:10.160] All right, I'm going to give you the three things.
[00:08:10.160 --> 00:08:18.320] Two of them are going to be evergreen strategies, strategies that are going to work in 2030, strategies that worked in 2015.
[00:08:18.320 --> 00:08:24.000] And then the third one will be kind of like a juicy algorithm hack that is working right now.
[00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:29.760] It's working in 2025, but in the future, don't shoot the messenger if it's not working a few years from now.
[00:08:30.400 --> 00:08:32.960] So the first two strategies, the evergreen ones.
[00:08:32.960 --> 00:08:40.480] The first one is true on Instagram and it's true on pretty much every platform, which is that the more you niche down, the more you grow.
[00:08:40.480 --> 00:08:42.880] The riches are in the niches, so to speak.
[00:08:43.280 --> 00:08:52.640] And when I say niche, I'm specifically referring to the who, so the demographics of that ideal target follower, and the what.
[00:08:52.640 --> 00:08:58.800] What is it that you're specifically going to be talking about every single time you post or almost every single time you post?
[00:08:58.800 --> 00:09:00.120] That's how you stand out.
[00:08:59.680 --> 00:09:01.000] That's how you grow.
[00:09:01.320 --> 00:09:14.280] And that's not necessarily how you go viral and get 100 million followers, but that's how you get super fans, super loyal, engaged followers who interact every time you post and they can't wait to become customers.
[00:09:14.280 --> 00:09:22.200] Like you don't have to sell them, they're on the wait list and they're waiting for you to announce the new product and they can't wait to buy it as fast as they possibly can.
[00:09:22.200 --> 00:09:23.800] Taylor Swift level super fans.
[00:09:23.800 --> 00:09:26.280] Okay, so that's the first strategy, niche down.
[00:09:26.280 --> 00:09:28.760] The second one is hyper consistency.
[00:09:28.760 --> 00:09:29.080] Okay.
[00:09:29.080 --> 00:09:30.920] I used to teach consistency.
[00:09:30.920 --> 00:09:36.600] What I've learned recently is that hyper consistency is what's needed to really grow nowadays.
[00:09:36.600 --> 00:09:38.520] We're talking about growth right now.
[00:09:38.520 --> 00:09:41.240] The more you post, the more you grow.
[00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:44.680] There is a direct correlation, and multiple studies have shown this.
[00:09:44.680 --> 00:09:50.440] There's a direct correlation between how frequently you post and how much you are growing.
[00:09:50.440 --> 00:09:54.840] And yes, we're talking even up to dozens of posts per day.
[00:09:54.840 --> 00:10:00.280] There's one viral example right now of this like Bollywood celebrity account.
[00:10:00.280 --> 00:10:06.840] Like they're kind of like a TMZ, but for Bollywood, and they're posting literally 100 plus times a day.
[00:10:06.840 --> 00:10:09.720] I'm not telling everyone listening that they need to post 100 times a day.
[00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:11.880] I'm telling this story as an example.
[00:10:11.880 --> 00:10:18.680] They're posting 100 plus times a day and they're growing hundreds of thousands, if not millions of followers every single week.
[00:10:18.680 --> 00:10:20.840] One of the fastest growing accounts on Instagram.
[00:10:20.840 --> 00:10:25.400] Now, of course, we need to say, like, protect your mental health, don't burn out.
[00:10:25.400 --> 00:10:30.600] So, what I really like to tell people is ask yourself, what can I sustain?
[00:10:30.600 --> 00:10:33.560] Rather than saying, oh, hey, there's this Bollywood account posting 100 times.
[00:10:33.560 --> 00:10:35.000] I need to post 100 times.
[00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:43.080] Figure out what you can sustain and what your goals are in your current season of life and business and Instagram and all of that stuff.
[00:10:43.080 --> 00:10:49.120] So, with all of that being said, however, there is a direct correlation between post rate and growth rate.
[00:10:49.120 --> 00:10:50.800] So, the more you post, the more you grow.
[00:10:50.800 --> 00:10:52.720] Those are the two evergreen strategies.
[00:10:52.720 --> 00:10:53.840] Those are not changing.
[00:10:53.840 --> 00:10:55.600] Those are not going anywhere.
[00:10:55.600 --> 00:10:58.080] The third one is like the juicy hack.
[00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:01.440] That is trial reels, which I know you have, Jenna.
[00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:01.840] Yes.
[00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:06.560] Trial reels are something that needs to be abused while we can.
[00:11:06.560 --> 00:11:07.040] While we can.
[00:11:07.360 --> 00:11:22.480] Because, yes, because, like you said, while we can, because for people who are listening and they don't know what a trial reel is, it's this new feature that was released in December 2024, where, as Instagram said, you can post reels and we will not show them to your followers.
[00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:24.400] So, it's a lower pressure environment.
[00:11:24.400 --> 00:11:25.440] It's less stressful.
[00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:30.160] You can trial or test out your reels before showing them to the rest of the world.
[00:11:30.160 --> 00:11:31.120] Cool, right?
[00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:46.640] No, us marketers very quickly realized that this is an opportunity to not spam our followers, but have unlimited potential, unlimited at-bats to use a baseball reference to reach non-followers.
[00:11:46.640 --> 00:11:50.400] Like you're guaranteed to only reach non-followers with these reels.
[00:11:50.400 --> 00:11:59.440] And so, when I say abuse them, I mean literally post dozens, if not more, every single day, just all day long, over and over again.
[00:11:59.440 --> 00:12:01.280] You're not going to affect your algorithm.
[00:12:01.280 --> 00:12:05.360] You're not going to spam or overwhelm your existing followers.
[00:12:05.360 --> 00:12:07.840] You basically, I love using this analogy.
[00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:15.520] You're like a baseball player who's at bat, and the pitcher is going to throw 100 balls at you, but you're never going to strike out.
[00:12:15.520 --> 00:12:17.040] You can just swing every single time.
[00:12:17.040 --> 00:12:20.000] It doesn't matter how many strikes you get, you're never going to strike out.
[00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:21.360] So, just keep swinging.
[00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:29.600] And even if you miss 98 of them, if you have two hits, that's two times where you're reaching thousands or even millions of people.
[00:12:29.600 --> 00:12:33.560] There are some people growing super fast with trial reels right now.
[00:12:33.560 --> 00:12:38.600] So if you have access, like abuse that feature while we can because it's not going to be here forever.
[00:12:38.600 --> 00:12:39.080] Yes.
[00:12:39.080 --> 00:12:39.560] Okay.
[00:12:39.560 --> 00:12:43.800] Let's go deep on this trial reels thing because I think it's super interesting.
[00:12:43.800 --> 00:12:53.400] So one strategy that I've heard, and I want to know what you think about this, is if somebody's listening to this and they're like, Brock, I don't have time to create dozens of posts a day.
[00:12:53.400 --> 00:12:59.560] Going through your feed and finding your past top performers and re-uploading those.
[00:12:59.560 --> 00:13:07.320] And one thing to note here that I think is really smart to do is if you're doing that, you'll still have a caption just like you would if you have a regular reel.
[00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:16.440] Maybe adding in a little caveat or like a, here's who I am and here's what I do, because keeping in mind this is going out to people who don't follow you, who aren't familiar.
[00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:19.080] So is that a strategy that you'd recommend?
[00:13:19.080 --> 00:13:22.440] Yeah, I'll give like the basic strategy and then the high-level strategy.
[00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:22.600] Yes.
[00:13:22.680 --> 00:13:24.440] The basic strategy, yes.
[00:13:24.440 --> 00:13:26.600] Repost your trial reels.
[00:13:26.600 --> 00:13:30.440] So I've posted probably 100 or 200 trial reels so far.
[00:13:30.440 --> 00:13:32.360] Not one of them has been new.
[00:13:32.360 --> 00:13:36.760] Every single one of them has been a repost of something that worked well in the past.
[00:13:36.760 --> 00:13:40.440] Something that went viral, something that got a lot of views, a lot of followers, whatever.
[00:13:40.440 --> 00:13:41.400] Just reposting.
[00:13:41.400 --> 00:13:42.680] You've already done the work.
[00:13:42.680 --> 00:13:43.960] You don't need to do any more work.
[00:13:43.960 --> 00:13:46.280] And the cool thing is, these are non-followers.
[00:13:46.280 --> 00:13:48.440] So they didn't see it the first time you posted it.
[00:13:48.440 --> 00:13:50.840] So you might as well post it again.
[00:13:50.840 --> 00:13:56.280] Even I'm posting the same exact reel multiple times each day as a trial reel.
[00:13:56.360 --> 00:13:58.920] I don't need to wait until the next day to repost it.
[00:13:58.920 --> 00:14:01.400] That same day, I'm posting the same thing over and over again.
[00:14:01.400 --> 00:14:04.440] So that's kind of like the baseline, basic level.
[00:14:04.440 --> 00:14:11.400] Go through your camera roll or your Instagram and just pick out all of the reels that you have saved from the past and post them again.
[00:14:11.400 --> 00:14:16.160] The advanced strategy is to kind of do a deep dive into the numbers here.
[00:14:16.160 --> 00:14:18.720] And I love looking at your posts as data.
[00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:18.880] Yes.
[00:14:19.120 --> 00:14:24.480] But you can go through and what you'll often find, and I'm going to guess this is true for you, Jenna.
[00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:25.920] I know it's true for me.
[00:14:25.920 --> 00:14:31.200] My most viral posts are not necessarily the posts that get me the most followers.
[00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:32.400] Have you noticed that?
[00:14:32.400 --> 00:14:34.160] Yes, 100%.
[00:14:34.480 --> 00:14:35.040] Okay.
[00:14:35.040 --> 00:14:38.560] So, like, I did a study of my own best-performing posts.
[00:14:38.560 --> 00:14:46.240] My very best post with the most views ever got me way less followers than like my seventh most viewed post.
[00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:49.760] My seventh most viewed post got significantly more followers.
[00:14:49.760 --> 00:14:57.120] Like we're talking 300 followers from my most viral post versus like 10,000 followers from my seventh most viral post.
[00:14:57.440 --> 00:15:18.960] Well, then the advanced strategy would be rather than just reposting the most viral video as a trial reel, repost your most followed video or to get really specific, your best follow ratio, follow to view ratio as trial reels because those are the reels that have already proven to not just get views, but also to turn those viewers into followers.
[00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:26.480] And then I loved your little golden nugget about like reintroduce yourself or in the caption, write like a little, hey, I'm Brock, this is what I do.
[00:15:26.480 --> 00:15:27.520] Follow for more.
[00:15:27.520 --> 00:15:32.800] Just that little call to action, that little reminder in the caption can really convert a lot more people.
[00:15:32.800 --> 00:15:33.280] Yes.
[00:15:33.280 --> 00:15:42.640] One thing I've been doing is we're preparing for a launch and I was coming up with a bunch of different reels and ideas and I was doing alternate hooks.
[00:15:42.640 --> 00:15:54.000] And so instead of creating the full reel with the first hook and then re-recording it with the second one, I was just testing just the hooks overlaid on B-roll to see which one would perform better.
[00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:57.440] And then that was the hook I was going for for the fully produced reel.
[00:15:57.440 --> 00:16:01.000] So I think there are a lot of ways to collect insightful data.
[00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:02.520] And you can even split test things.
[00:16:02.680 --> 00:16:11.400] Like I was split testing professionally shot footage versus iPhone footage, footage of, say, your hands versus footage of your face.
[00:16:11.400 --> 00:16:18.920] And like just trying to kind of understand because let's talk about this because there has been a huge shift with the algorithm.
[00:16:18.920 --> 00:16:23.640] And I think it's like making people feel really uncertain, really unsteady.
[00:16:23.640 --> 00:16:37.240] And the people that are going to navigate this algorithm shift the best, I think, are the people willing to experiment and to kind of figure out, okay, what's hitting, what's landing, and also not just what's getting views, but like what's getting real results.
[00:16:37.240 --> 00:16:40.280] Like you said, like followers are worth more than views.
[00:16:40.280 --> 00:16:45.880] And so getting clear on like what is the goal of this post and how do I make more that achieve that goal?
[00:16:45.880 --> 00:16:47.720] So can we talk about the algorithm?
[00:16:47.720 --> 00:16:51.080] Because what the heck is going on in 2025?
[00:16:51.400 --> 00:16:53.960] Yeah, for everyone listening, you're not crazy.
[00:16:54.280 --> 00:16:58.440] The algorithm has had a very massive shift in 2025.
[00:16:58.440 --> 00:17:03.240] They do make little tweaks every single day, but every once in a while there's like a big change.
[00:17:03.240 --> 00:17:16.200] And this new one has been called the TikTokification of the Instagram algorithm, which, if anyone's listening and they're used to being a TikTok creator and posting regularly on TikTok, you know that on TikTok, the views go up and down.
[00:17:16.200 --> 00:17:25.560] Because on TikTok, they care a lot less about how many followers you have and they care less about who follows you and they care more about what do people want to see.
[00:17:25.880 --> 00:17:34.280] So just because I've followed someone on TikTok doesn't mean I'm going to see all their videos because maybe I'm not that interested in that topic at that moment.
[00:17:34.280 --> 00:17:45.840] Instead, what they've done and now what Instagram is mirroring is they're distributing content and they're showing people videos that they think would be peak or maximum engagement and interest.
[00:17:46.240 --> 00:17:49.040] Like, what are you most interested in?
[00:17:49.040 --> 00:18:01.200] Yes, you followed your uncle seven years ago on Instagram and yes, he just posted a photo of your cousin, but Instagram can predict, hey, you're not very likely to engage with that.
[00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:08.080] You're way more likely to engage with whatever your niche interest, topic, hobby is that is super engaging for you.
[00:18:08.080 --> 00:18:09.600] So what does this mean for us?
[00:18:09.600 --> 00:18:12.880] It means that views are less predictable.
[00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:13.600] They're more crazy.
[00:18:13.600 --> 00:18:15.440] They're more all over the place, more chaotic.
[00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:18.880] You're going to have a couple posts that are like, oh my God, should I help?
[00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:21.920] And then you're going to have a couple posts where you're like, oh my God, I am a celebrity.
[00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:22.800] Step aside, Mr.
[00:18:22.800 --> 00:18:23.440] Beast.
[00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:25.600] We have a new famous creator in town.
[00:18:25.600 --> 00:18:26.800] And that's going to be very normal.
[00:18:26.800 --> 00:18:28.720] So we're going to have to get used to that.
[00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:37.200] But the bigger change, and really what we need to be aware of is that your reels are going to be reaching a lot more non-followers.
[00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:42.080] They're reaching a lot more people who do not already see you, who do not already follow you.
[00:18:42.080 --> 00:18:53.200] So kind of like we were talking about with trial reels, I think it's super helpful for people to get in the habit of reintroducing themselves, whether it's an entire post dedicated to reintroducing yourself.
[00:18:53.200 --> 00:19:04.400] It's a sentence or two in your post, reintroducing you, maybe in the caption, or it's one of those posts that doesn't necessarily say, hey, I'm Jenna, I'm this old, and this is my podcast, and this is what I do.
[00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:15.360] Instead, it's just kind of like highlighting your values, your ethics, your beliefs, your morals, maybe your why or why you got into doing what you're doing for a living, telling your story, and those sorts of posts.
[00:19:15.360 --> 00:19:20.640] I would lean into those more for the next few months and really for the foreseeable future.
[00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:28.400] Because if you're meeting someone for the first time, they need to know who you are before they can really accept the value that you have to provide.
[00:19:29.360 --> 00:19:35.400] This podcast is brought to you by Mercury, banking that helps entrepreneurs do more with their money.
[00:19:35.720 --> 00:19:40.520] When I first started taking my business seriously, I remember feeling stretched thin.
[00:19:40.520 --> 00:19:45.720] I was juggling invoices, tracking payments, and managing cash flow across different tools.
[00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:49.160] It was messy, and I thought banking had to be that way.
[00:19:49.160 --> 00:19:51.560] That's why I was impressed with Mercury.
[00:19:51.560 --> 00:20:01.240] Unlike traditional banking that feels clunky and outdated, Mercury is designed to make managing money effortless so that you can focus on what actually grows your business.
[00:20:01.240 --> 00:20:09.640] Everything you need is in one intuitive product: banking, cards, spend management, invoicing, and more, all in one place.
[00:20:09.640 --> 00:20:13.000] Plus, Mercury flexes to fit all types of businesses.
[00:20:13.000 --> 00:20:18.440] So, whether you're a funded startup, agency, or e-commerce brand, it can be tailored to you.
[00:20:18.440 --> 00:20:23.480] Visit mercury.com to join over 200,000 entrepreneurs who use Mercury.
[00:20:23.480 --> 00:20:26.920] Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank.
[00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:30.280] For important details, check the show notes.
[00:20:31.560 --> 00:20:35.240] You know that sinking feeling when you see your latest campaign report?
[00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:39.160] 87% of your budget went to people who would never buy from you.
[00:20:39.160 --> 00:20:44.920] Random scrollers clicking your business course ad, students engaging with your entrepreneur content.
[00:20:44.920 --> 00:20:50.840] You're perfect ad creative about building sustainable income shown to people who aren't even trying to build a business.
[00:20:50.840 --> 00:20:53.080] That's why LinkedIn ads exist.
[00:20:53.080 --> 00:20:58.360] While other platforms guess who might be interested, LinkedIn knows who your buyers are.
[00:20:58.360 --> 00:21:02.200] Target the exact job titles, making purchasing decisions.
[00:21:02.200 --> 00:21:04.840] Reach VPs of marketing at growing companies.
[00:21:04.840 --> 00:21:07.560] Find HR directors at mid-sized firms.
[00:21:07.560 --> 00:21:10.440] Target entrepreneurs ready to invest in their growth.
[00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:13.160] Zero waste, maximum impact.
[00:21:13.160 --> 00:21:21.440] Stop hemorrhaging budget on random audiences and start reaching actual decision makers who can write the checks only with LinkedIn ads.
[00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:27.920] Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a free $250 credit for the next one.
[00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:30.720] Just go to linkedin.com/slash goal.
[00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:33.840] That's linkedin.com/slash G-O-A-L.
[00:21:33.840 --> 00:21:36.240] Terms and conditions apply.
[00:21:36.560 --> 00:21:37.440] Oh, yeah.
[00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:40.800] I think this is probably the biggest shift.
[00:21:40.800 --> 00:21:48.400] And I think this is where creators really need to pause for a moment and look at like their content strategy and how they're approaching it.
[00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:53.680] Because for a long time, we were able to approach it as like, hey, you already know this about me.
[00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:56.560] So here's the continuation of the story, right?
[00:21:56.560 --> 00:22:03.120] It felt like you could do a monologue broken up post by post, especially when it was back in the chronological good old days.
[00:22:03.120 --> 00:22:10.720] But nowadays, when we're actually really analyzing, like, wow, a lot of people who don't follow you might be seeing this content.
[00:22:10.720 --> 00:22:12.720] How do we make it make sense for them?
[00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:13.600] How do we make it land?
[00:22:13.600 --> 00:22:14.800] And how do we make it valuable?
[00:22:14.800 --> 00:22:19.680] And I think, Brock, this is like where you shine: you do such a good job.
[00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:30.720] And so talk to me about how you're thinking differently about the content creation process, knowing that people might be meeting you for the first time on every single piece of content.
[00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:33.120] Yeah, I think there's, first of all, thank you.
[00:22:33.120 --> 00:22:37.280] I'm trying to mix in more storytelling into my reels.
[00:22:37.280 --> 00:22:46.560] I'm not necessarily telling a long, drawn-out story, but I also know that stories are 22 times more memorable than facts on average.
[00:22:46.560 --> 00:22:52.320] So, if I can tell a story to illustrate my point, you're going to remember that point way more.
[00:22:52.320 --> 00:22:57.440] You're going to actually soak up the value that I'm posting way more than if I had just told you a fact.
[00:22:57.440 --> 00:23:03.640] Like, most people are probably forgetting the facts that I said at the beginning of this episode, but they're remembering the stories that we're telling in here.
[00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:09.720] So, try to incorporate more stories, but also, and this is going to sound really bad, and I hope it's not controversial.
[00:23:09.720 --> 00:23:11.880] dumb down your content.
[00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:20.440] I think oftentimes our ego tells us that we need to make our content super high-level, smart, intelligent, and flex our knowledge in every reel.
[00:23:20.440 --> 00:23:23.240] When the reality is, not our followers are dumb.
[00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:26.600] I'm not going to say that, but I'm going to say they're not paying attention, right?
[00:23:26.600 --> 00:23:28.520] They're watching with their brain turned off.
[00:23:28.520 --> 00:23:33.160] They're just scrolling, they're chilling, they've seen 10,000 other reels, and that's not an exaggeration.
[00:23:33.160 --> 00:23:35.400] They've seen thousands of other posts that day.
[00:23:35.560 --> 00:23:39.320] And so, you do not have their full undivided attention.
[00:23:39.320 --> 00:23:43.160] It's not like you're having a one-on-one consultation with them and they're taking notes.
[00:23:43.400 --> 00:23:45.640] They're watching a reel and they just watched a reel right before it.
[00:23:45.640 --> 00:23:47.240] They're going to watch a reel right after it.
[00:23:47.240 --> 00:23:49.400] And so, simplify your content.
[00:23:49.400 --> 00:24:03.960] Something I often do is if I have a script or if I have like bullet points, I'll pop them into our good old friend ChatGPT and I'll see if there's a way I can simplify it or like dumb down these words or write this at a fifth grade reading level.
[00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:11.160] Or I'll try to think: is there a synonym for this word that's simpler, that's more easily understood or more widely used?
[00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:14.520] Because I know that people aren't paying as close of attention.
[00:24:14.520 --> 00:24:16.920] And many of them have never seen me before.
[00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:18.680] They've never heard me talk before.
[00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:21.400] And so, it's important to kind of meet people where they are.
[00:24:21.400 --> 00:24:30.120] And I think when you simplify, you allow more people to consume your content and thus more potential views, followers, customers, yada, yada, yada.
[00:24:30.120 --> 00:24:31.080] I love this.
[00:24:31.080 --> 00:24:38.120] And I think one thing that I've had to work on so much with every piece of content is like assume that they know nothing.
[00:24:38.120 --> 00:24:42.200] And again, that's not coming from a place of saying your followers are dumb.
[00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:44.760] It's like assume that they have never consumed a single thing.
[00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:56.400] Like it's so easy for us to, if we're writing an email funnel, we see email one, two, three, four, and five, but you cannot assume that somebody opened one, two, and three, four before they got to five.
[00:24:56.400 --> 00:25:11.120] And I think the same goes with Instagram content: a lot of times, if you have created a system or a process around your content creation, you see the unfolding of the journey, but you forget that only a small percentage of your followers are seeing every single post.
[00:25:11.120 --> 00:25:15.440] I mean, I would argue that no percentage of your followers are seeing every single post.
[00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:23.440] And so it's like, how can our content stand alone, be powerful, get the result that we're aiming for with that piece of content?
[00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:31.040] And how can we assume that this is the first time they've heard of us, of what we're trying to talk about, of the offer of everything?
[00:25:31.040 --> 00:25:38.320] And that has been such a hard thing for my brain that loves to think sequentially: stand alone, stand alone.
[00:25:38.320 --> 00:25:46.880] And I think that is going to be a huge piece of this new algorithm, especially if our content is getting in front of more non-followers.
[00:25:46.880 --> 00:25:47.920] Yep, absolutely.
[00:25:47.920 --> 00:25:49.120] I couldn't agree more.
[00:25:49.120 --> 00:25:55.040] Okay, so one thing that I'm so curious about is you just got to interview Adam Assari.
[00:25:55.040 --> 00:25:57.680] So tell us who he is and why that was important.
[00:25:57.680 --> 00:26:10.320] But I want to know what was your biggest takeaway of what Instagram is focusing on in 2025 that can kind of give us the behind the scenes peek of like how we need to pivot what we're doing.
[00:26:10.320 --> 00:26:12.880] Yeah, so he is the head of Instagram.
[00:26:12.880 --> 00:26:21.520] You and I were talking off air and we're like, he's like a celebrity in our field, but if you're outside of that field, like Adam Moseri, that name means nothing to you, right?
[00:26:21.520 --> 00:26:23.280] Everyone knows Mark Zuckerberg.
[00:26:23.280 --> 00:26:25.920] No one knows his counterpart, Adam Moseri.
[00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:31.400] So I got to interview him, got to sit down and have a chat with him, which was really cool, really, really an awesome experience.
[00:26:31.720 --> 00:26:42.200] And he shared his three biggest priorities for Instagram in 2025, specifically as it relates to us small business owners and content creators and entrepreneurs.
[00:26:42.840 --> 00:26:48.680] One of them was helping the small creator break out, which I thought was really interesting.
[00:26:48.680 --> 00:26:54.120] They really want to push and help these people who have smaller accounts.
[00:26:54.120 --> 00:26:57.320] And however, you define smaller accounts, I think it's a sliding scale.
[00:26:57.320 --> 00:27:01.880] I don't think it's like a hard cutoff that once you reach 10K, Instagram doesn't care about you anymore.
[00:27:01.880 --> 00:27:06.040] But basically, the smaller your account is, the more they're trying to push you out to more people.
[00:27:06.040 --> 00:27:11.400] And that kind of goes back to our conversation about more non-follower reach.
[00:27:11.720 --> 00:27:12.680] That's why we're seeing that.
[00:27:12.680 --> 00:27:16.600] For smaller accounts, woohoo, you're reaching more non-followers, more potential growth.
[00:27:16.600 --> 00:27:25.160] For larger accounts, like yours and mine, Jenna, that looks like a roller coaster of, hey, this reel was pushed out to a bunch of non-followers and they weren't interested.
[00:27:25.160 --> 00:27:26.600] And so it didn't do very well.
[00:27:26.600 --> 00:27:27.800] But I digress.
[00:27:27.800 --> 00:27:36.360] The second thing they said is a big priority for them is valuing original content, which is really something that they've been talking about since 2024.
[00:27:36.360 --> 00:27:40.440] They realize that there's too many of these, what they call aggregator accounts.
[00:27:40.440 --> 00:27:44.920] And the easiest example of this is like Sports Center or ESPN.
[00:27:44.920 --> 00:27:47.560] Like that is literally an aggregator account.
[00:27:47.560 --> 00:27:51.160] All of their clips are not footage that they have filmed.
[00:27:51.160 --> 00:27:59.480] It is viral sports clips, sometimes from professional sports, but oftentimes nowadays, you're seeing like a high school basketball game-winning shot.
[00:27:59.480 --> 00:28:05.640] You're seeing a youth football game where the kids are, you know, three inches tall and they're running around and it's like hilarious video.
[00:28:05.640 --> 00:28:07.240] They're bobbleheads.
[00:28:07.240 --> 00:28:18.320] That's the sort of aggregator account that Instagram is not necessarily trying to punish, but they're trying to reward the mom who took the video of the high school basketball game winning shot.
[00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:20.800] They're trying to reward the original creator.
[00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:22.800] So I do think that is awesome.
[00:28:22.800 --> 00:28:29.040] And I will say this does not apply to reposting your own stuff because you're still the original creator.
[00:28:29.040 --> 00:28:30.560] So you can repost your own stuff.
[00:28:30.560 --> 00:28:32.080] And I'm sure we'll talk more about that later.
[00:28:32.080 --> 00:28:33.760] So that's the second priority.
[00:28:33.760 --> 00:28:43.040] And then the third thing that they really want to prioritize, and this again goes back to the idea of the TikTokification of Instagram, is they want trends to happen faster.
[00:28:43.040 --> 00:28:49.840] And it was really enlightening to hear him say this because something I've been saying for years is spot trends on TikTok.
[00:28:49.840 --> 00:28:54.560] And then if you do them on Instagram, you'll be doing it two weeks before it actually pops off on Instagram.
[00:28:54.560 --> 00:28:58.800] And for so long, it was like the trends happen on TikTok and then eventually they make their way to Instagram.
[00:28:58.800 --> 00:29:01.200] That was even a joke on TikTok.
[00:29:01.360 --> 00:29:04.480] They would be like, I can't wait for Instagram to get this trend in three months.
[00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:08.160] And then they'd be like, I can't wait for YouTube Shorts to get this trend in three years.
[00:29:08.480 --> 00:29:11.760] But he said they want trends to happen faster on Instagram.
[00:29:11.760 --> 00:29:13.760] And I think we've already seen that.
[00:29:13.760 --> 00:29:14.880] Did you see, Jenna?
[00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:17.040] Have you seen his name is Ashton?
[00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:17.600] Yes.
[00:29:17.840 --> 00:29:20.480] The morning routine, dipping his face in the bowl.
[00:29:20.720 --> 00:29:25.440] Everyone from like a million to he's now with like 12 million followers.
[00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:27.520] He dumps his face in the Saratoga water.
[00:29:27.520 --> 00:29:30.480] He's doing push-ups on his balcony at three in the morning.
[00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:33.360] He went viral for his crazy morning routine.
[00:29:33.360 --> 00:29:36.480] That was a trend that originated on Instagram.
[00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:37.440] That was a meme.
[00:29:37.440 --> 00:29:40.960] That was a thing that is purely an Instagram thing.
[00:29:40.960 --> 00:29:52.480] And so I think we're already starting to see that trends are happening faster on Instagram and things are becoming Instagram trends, not just Instagram trends that were stolen from TikTok.
[00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:54.480] I think that's so fascinating.
[00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:58.800] Also fascinating, I don't have or use TikTok, which is funny.
[00:29:58.800 --> 00:30:02.040] I mean, I think I have an account, but I don't log into it.
[00:29:59.840 --> 00:30:03.080] I've never gotten into it.
[00:30:03.320 --> 00:30:14.200] And so I think what's been so interesting to me is like, even just noticing when I'm scrolling, like I am seeing so much content from people that I don't follow.
[00:30:14.200 --> 00:30:21.320] And it's been really interesting as both a creator and a consumer to kind of figure out, well, what does this mean for us?
[00:30:21.320 --> 00:30:26.840] Because I think for so long, it was like you build your following follower by follower.
[00:30:26.840 --> 00:30:28.920] You speak to them like they're family.
[00:30:28.920 --> 00:30:30.520] They know your dog's name.
[00:30:30.520 --> 00:30:34.040] They know what the inside of your house looks like, all these different things.
[00:30:34.040 --> 00:30:46.600] And so it's been this huge shift of like not only consuming content from all different types of creators, but also really thinking about, okay, from a strategy standpoint, how does this shift things?
[00:30:46.600 --> 00:30:53.400] One thing I'm curious about, Brock, is how are you utilizing the different media types on Instagram?
[00:30:53.400 --> 00:30:55.720] So let's start with Instagram stories.
[00:30:55.720 --> 00:30:56.680] Are those dead?
[00:30:56.680 --> 00:30:58.200] Is it a growth strategy?
[00:30:58.200 --> 00:31:00.440] How do we leverage our stories?
[00:31:00.440 --> 00:31:02.840] Yeah, love that we're talking about this.
[00:31:02.840 --> 00:31:06.200] Stories will not help you grow your following.
[00:31:06.200 --> 00:31:08.040] You could post a million stories a day.
[00:31:08.040 --> 00:31:10.360] They could be the best stories you ever made.
[00:31:10.360 --> 00:31:11.480] They're not going to help you grow.
[00:31:11.480 --> 00:31:13.400] And that's just simply because of the way they're made.
[00:31:13.720 --> 00:31:17.080] They're made to only reach your existing followers.
[00:31:17.080 --> 00:31:26.440] Yes, technically, someone can discover your account, they can click on your profile and then watch your stories before following you, but they didn't discover you through your stories.
[00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:28.280] So stories do not help you grow.
[00:31:28.280 --> 00:31:31.160] With that being said, stories have a purpose and they have a huge purpose.
[00:31:31.160 --> 00:31:36.920] And I believe that they really have two main purposes and two main different ways that you can use them.
[00:31:36.920 --> 00:31:40.040] The first one is to build trust.
[00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:45.280] Trust is the epitome of growing a brand online in 2025.
[00:31:44.840 --> 00:31:46.320] Trust is key.
[00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:51.840] It's the secret sauce because we've all gone through the last few years where we're all like, who can I trust?
[00:31:51.840 --> 00:31:52.960] Where can I get my media?
[00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:54.000] Where can I get my news?
[00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:55.280] Where can I get my info?
[00:31:55.280 --> 00:31:57.360] Who can I trust and believe in?
[00:31:57.680 --> 00:32:12.800] Now, especially with AI, the more real you can be, documentation over curation, posting multiple times a day on your Instagram story, and really just focus on taking people into your daily life and like what's going on, the highs and the lows.
[00:32:13.120 --> 00:32:17.120] That will help you build maximum trust through your Instagram stories.
[00:32:17.120 --> 00:32:20.400] Now, building maximum trust is not the same strategy.
[00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:24.160] It's not the same way that you're going to get the most possible views.
[00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:29.760] So the really cool thing about stories is it resets every 24 hours because your stories expire.
[00:32:29.760 --> 00:32:35.200] So you don't have to like choose one strategy and stick with it for seven months and then decide to change.
[00:32:35.200 --> 00:32:38.240] No, you can do something different on Tuesday versus Wednesday.
[00:32:38.240 --> 00:32:45.120] So with all of that being said, posting multiple stories every single day, documenting your life, maximum trust.
[00:32:45.120 --> 00:32:50.000] When you're ready to get your most viewed story ever, do the following strategy.
[00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:52.640] It's what I call the STD strategy.
[00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:55.840] And I call it that so that no one will ever forget the STD strategy.
[00:32:55.840 --> 00:33:01.520] So here's how you post an STD on your stories and thus get the most possible views.
[00:33:01.520 --> 00:33:08.240] And let me even say, before I tell you what the STD stands for, when would you want to get most possible views?
[00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:21.400] Well, when you are promoting something, when you have a new podcast episode, when you have a launch or a sale or a discount code, when you're doing a brand deal, a collaboration, a sponsored post, and you want to make sure that the brand has a great perception of you.
[00:33:21.400 --> 00:33:24.160] And they're like, wow, this creator crushed it for me.
[00:33:24.160 --> 00:33:26.480] So here's what an STD story looks like.
[00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:30.280] And here's what STD stands for: the S stands for single.
[00:33:29.440 --> 00:33:33.800] So just one single story frame.
[00:33:29.840 --> 00:33:36.440] So let all of your previous stories expire.
[00:33:36.760 --> 00:33:39.880] Don't post any more future stories for the next 24 hours.
[00:33:39.880 --> 00:33:43.880] 24 hours, you just have one singular frame on your stories.
[00:33:43.880 --> 00:33:44.680] That's the S.
[00:33:44.680 --> 00:33:47.800] The T stands for text heavy.
[00:33:47.800 --> 00:33:49.560] So it's not a video story.
[00:33:49.560 --> 00:33:51.480] It's not a talking head story.
[00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:58.520] It is a photograph or even just like a graphic that you can make in Canva or even make right there on Instagram stories.
[00:33:58.520 --> 00:33:59.960] And it's text heavy.
[00:33:59.960 --> 00:34:05.560] So I'm talking multiple sentences, if not multiple paragraphs of text.
[00:34:05.560 --> 00:34:16.200] Recently, not to go too high level for a second, but I have noticed there was a change where what used to work really well was just like a solid color background with lots of text.
[00:34:16.200 --> 00:34:18.520] That was the kind of text every story that worked.
[00:34:18.520 --> 00:34:20.920] Now I've noticed that better if there's a person in it.
[00:34:20.920 --> 00:34:33.400] So if like if my face is like in the corner and I'm kind of like YouTube thumbnail style, making a dramatic face that mirrors the vibe or the energy of the story, smiling or, you know, looking shocked or looking angry, whatever.
[00:34:33.400 --> 00:34:35.240] So that's a little distinction I've noticed recently.
[00:34:35.240 --> 00:34:37.640] But the bottom line, text every story, right?
[00:34:37.640 --> 00:34:40.440] Lots of text, multiple sentences, if not paragraphs.
[00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:43.720] And then the D is the most important part of the STD.
[00:34:43.720 --> 00:34:46.440] It's the most important part to make this whole thing work.
[00:34:46.440 --> 00:34:50.280] And it's DM automation, direct message automation.
[00:34:50.280 --> 00:34:51.080] That's the thing.
[00:34:51.080 --> 00:34:52.120] I know you do it, Jenna.
[00:34:52.120 --> 00:34:53.000] I know you're a fan of it.
[00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:59.880] It's the thing where you tell people, reply with this keyword, reply with this phrase, and I will send you this thing.
[00:34:59.880 --> 00:35:07.320] So you could post one and you could say, reply with the word pod, and I will send you the link to my new podcast episode with Brock Johnson.
[00:35:07.320 --> 00:35:08.920] You could do something like that.
[00:35:08.920 --> 00:35:18.240] And when people start replying, that is what really drives your views up to another level because Instagram and their CEO is, he said this many times.
[00:35:14.680 --> 00:35:19.440] The DMs are everything.
[00:35:19.600 --> 00:35:23.040] The DMs are what they're obsessed with at Instagram.
[00:35:23.040 --> 00:35:28.400] And they really believe that the DMs on Instagram are what separate Instagram from any other platform.
[00:35:28.400 --> 00:35:30.000] And I would agree with them.
[00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:36.000] But so when you're getting all these messages and when you're getting these DMs, the algorithm's like, oh my God, this is the best story ever.
[00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:38.080] Let's push it out to more people.
[00:35:38.080 --> 00:35:43.520] And that's how I can't quite guarantee it, but this is about as close to a guarantee as I will give you.
[00:35:43.520 --> 00:35:49.200] It could be, it might be, it probably will be your most viewed story ever.
[00:35:49.200 --> 00:35:50.000] Okay.
[00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:52.960] I love this and I love DM automation.
[00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:59.200] And I also just want to say for anyone afraid of it, I set up my own DM automation the other day.
[00:35:59.200 --> 00:36:00.400] It is so easy.
[00:36:00.400 --> 00:36:01.200] It is so easy.
[00:36:01.200 --> 00:36:07.840] We use both Brock and I use MiniChat, which is an approved partner of Instagram, but literally anyone can do it.
[00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:09.600] And I had been like afraid to do it.
[00:36:09.600 --> 00:36:12.560] And I was like, okay, literally, it is so quick and easy.
[00:36:12.560 --> 00:36:32.080] So if you are somebody who, and I think this is a good segue into the next part, is just talking about getting actual results from Instagram, because when people are so hyper-focused on followers and views, I think oftentimes they're missing where the actual monetary value comes in, which is how we kicked this conversation off is like, what are the results?
[00:36:32.080 --> 00:36:51.320] And if you are somebody who has a dream to get real results from Instagram, whether it's email subscribers, podcast listeners, leads, sales, purchasers, like anything like that, then having something like DM Automation that can help deliver that experience instantaneously without you manually having to do that.
[00:36:51.320 --> 00:36:52.640] It's going to be the fastest way.
[00:36:52.640 --> 00:36:54.320] And it's also going to be a better experience.
[00:36:54.320 --> 00:37:04.920] So let's talk about like, what is the best way to get actual results on Instagram in 2025, where we kind of let the vanity metrics go because we now know they're fluctuating.
[00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:07.320] They're more unpredictable than they've ever been.
[00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:11.080] Is it still possible to get real results from Instagram?
[00:37:11.400 --> 00:37:12.600] Yes, it is.
[00:37:12.600 --> 00:37:19.160] And I think it's actually more possible now than ever before because of these crazy fluctuating views.
[00:37:19.160 --> 00:37:22.200] It's tougher to go viral now than ever before.
[00:37:22.200 --> 00:37:25.480] But the good thing is, virality is never what I'm after.
[00:37:25.480 --> 00:37:31.800] I don't think virality should ever be your goal unless, I don't know, unless you want to become some viral clickbait influencer.
[00:37:31.800 --> 00:37:33.000] But I know that's not my audience.
[00:37:33.000 --> 00:37:34.360] I know that's not your audience.
[00:37:34.360 --> 00:37:36.920] You're listening to this podcast because you want results.
[00:37:36.920 --> 00:37:45.000] And the reason you're not getting results is not necessarily because there's something wrong with you or what you're selling or anything like that.
[00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:47.080] It's probably just in the strategy.
[00:37:47.080 --> 00:37:51.400] So going back to this conversation of DM automation, here's what most people do.
[00:37:51.400 --> 00:37:54.280] They make their promotional post, their sales post, whatever.
[00:37:54.680 --> 00:38:01.240] You know, they have a book a consultation for your new lashes or, you know, they're selling some digital product.
[00:38:01.240 --> 00:38:04.760] And then at the end of the post, they say, click the link in my bio.
[00:38:04.760 --> 00:38:05.000] Yep.
[00:38:05.160 --> 00:38:06.840] Or even worse, they don't put it in the post.
[00:38:06.840 --> 00:38:11.720] They just like tuck it away down in their caption and they say, click the link in my bio.
[00:38:11.720 --> 00:38:13.480] What are you implying?
[00:38:13.480 --> 00:38:18.600] You're not explicitly saying this, but you are implying to your followers that they should not engage with your post.
[00:38:18.600 --> 00:38:18.920] Yep.
[00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:20.680] You're telling them, go do something else.
[00:38:20.680 --> 00:38:22.280] Do not engage with this post.
[00:38:22.280 --> 00:38:23.480] So what's going to happen?
[00:38:23.480 --> 00:38:28.360] They're not going to engage, which means the algorithm is going to be like, oh, God, this post sucks.
[00:38:28.360 --> 00:38:31.800] Like, let's not show it to anybody because no one is engaging.
[00:38:31.800 --> 00:38:35.960] Everyone who's seeing it is either scrolling or they're clicking away and going somewhere else.
[00:38:36.520 --> 00:38:40.760] So that's where Jenna and I would recommend using something like Diem Automation.
[00:38:40.760 --> 00:38:42.680] ManyChat is the one we use.
[00:38:42.680 --> 00:38:46.160] There's like over a million people who use ManyChat, so it's totally safe.
[00:38:46.160 --> 00:38:50.800] And I'm glad you said it's so easy to set up because it is not a techie person.
[00:38:44.920 --> 00:38:50.880] Yes.
[00:38:51.920 --> 00:39:11.440] What I've tried to tell people is if you know how to like drag around a folder on your desktop, like if you can point and click, that's all you need to do because they've set it up so that you literally point, click, set up the trigger, the word that people are going to say, and then you drag and click what is going to be the response, and that's it.
[00:39:11.440 --> 00:39:12.080] You are done.
[00:39:12.080 --> 00:39:13.200] It's that easy.
[00:39:13.200 --> 00:39:22.320] So then what you can do is, instead of saying click the link in my bio, you can say comment the word pod, and I will send you the link to our new podcast episode.
[00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:29.360] Then you're actively telling people to comment, and everyone who does comment, they get the link served up to them on a silver platter, which is better for them.
[00:39:29.360 --> 00:39:34.640] They don't have to go hunting for it in your Lincoln bio and remember a discount code.
[00:39:34.800 --> 00:39:40.160] They can just get it served up to them right in the DMs, which, as we already talked about, Instagram's a big fan of.
[00:39:40.800 --> 00:39:42.240] And so you're getting engagement.
[00:39:42.240 --> 00:39:43.120] They're getting the links.
[00:39:43.120 --> 00:39:44.400] It's a win-win.
[00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:50.560] My posts that have DM automation significantly outperform even my average posts.
[00:39:50.560 --> 00:39:57.760] And when you compare my posts with DM automation, compared to when I used to say, click the link in my bio, it is night and day.
[00:39:57.760 --> 00:39:59.200] It's night and day.
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[00:42:37.600 --> 00:42:46.080] So we booked a house on Airbnb with a pool, enough space for each of us to actually get good sleep, and all of the little luxuries we didn't have at home.
[00:42:46.080 --> 00:42:56.400] But what really stuck with me wasn't just the house, it was all these thoughtful touches, fresh coffee waiting for us, local restaurant recommendations, even pool towels that actually smelled good.
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[00:43:48.400 --> 00:43:59.760] I love this so much because I feel like where we get it wrong is when we get so fixated on the vanity metrics and we kind of forget, like, what is the actual goal here?
[00:44:00.440 --> 00:44:09.160] And I think that there is such a disconnect where people are so close to throwing in the towel because all they've been focused on is the vanity metrics.
[00:44:09.160 --> 00:44:21.640] And I often tell people, I'm like, the posts that look like they're quote performing the worst, quote unquote, maybe it's the worst views or something, those ones are the ones generating the best results for me oftentimes.
[00:44:21.640 --> 00:44:28.280] And where it's connection and communication or ending up in the DMs where people can't visibly maybe see what's actually happening.
[00:44:28.280 --> 00:44:34.040] But there's so many ways that that success is fueled and the real ROI is there.
[00:44:34.040 --> 00:44:35.880] I have a question for you on this.
[00:44:35.880 --> 00:44:47.480] So how, if you were going to do certain, like a posting cadence, how often would you have call to actions in your posts that were like that using many chats, say for example?
[00:44:47.480 --> 00:44:50.920] And how often would you do posts that don't have that call to action?
[00:44:51.240 --> 00:44:58.120] This is an interesting question and one that I've been struggling to find the right, you know, amount for myself.
[00:44:58.600 --> 00:45:05.320] I probably have DM automation in close to 50% of my posts, maybe even more.
[00:45:05.320 --> 00:45:11.240] But what I do is I vary the, you could call it the aggressiveness of that DM automation.
[00:45:11.240 --> 00:45:13.080] So sometimes it's in the real.
[00:45:13.080 --> 00:45:16.840] Like I'm saying to the camera, comment the word blank and I'll send you blank.
[00:45:16.840 --> 00:45:17.240] Yes.
[00:45:17.240 --> 00:45:19.480] And sometimes you wouldn't even see it.
[00:45:19.480 --> 00:45:21.000] It's not in the reel.
[00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:23.400] It's not in the first couple paragraphs of the caption.
[00:45:23.400 --> 00:45:25.000] It's just kind of tucked away at the bottom.
[00:45:25.000 --> 00:45:28.920] Like, by the way, if you want to listen to the full interview, comment the word pod.
[00:45:28.920 --> 00:45:33.160] And so it's varying levels of aggression, but either way, it's there.
[00:45:33.160 --> 00:45:36.280] But for me, it's around 50% right now.
[00:45:36.280 --> 00:45:41.880] Natasha Willis is, she runs the school of bots and she's kind of like an expert when it comes to DM automation.
[00:45:41.880 --> 00:45:50.640] What she says is that, like, one out of every three or roughly 30% of your posts is kind of a sweet spot for how much you should have it.
[00:45:50.800 --> 00:45:55.600] But I also think it's going to vary depending on what your offer is and, you know, what season you're in.
[00:45:55.600 --> 00:46:03.280] If you're in a season of, hey, we're in a launch, we got to get as many customers or leads as possible versus, hey, we're not really promoting anything actively right now.
[00:46:03.280 --> 00:46:04.800] We're just coming off of a launch.
[00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:07.200] And so we kind of want to give our followers a breather.
[00:46:07.200 --> 00:46:08.480] Yeah, I love that.
[00:46:08.480 --> 00:46:10.560] Natasha has been on the show twice.
[00:46:10.560 --> 00:46:15.920] So we'll link up her episodes because she's a genius when it comes to this automation stuff.
[00:46:15.920 --> 00:46:26.640] One thing I'm curious about is: what would you say to someone who has, quote, tried everything on Instagram and they still aren't feeling successful on the platform?
[00:46:26.960 --> 00:46:40.640] The person who has tried everything on Instagram is not having success is the person who's going to the gym and doing one set on every single machine and wondering why they don't look like Arnold Schwarzenegger.
[00:46:40.640 --> 00:46:52.400] When you divide your efforts and you try out every single one of these little different things and you're not doing them for very long, like you're not sticking with just the quad extension machine every day for six months.
[00:46:52.400 --> 00:46:59.920] You're just kind of one rep over on quad extension, one rep over here on the booty blaster, one rep over here on bicep curls.
[00:46:59.920 --> 00:47:01.360] Of course you're not going to see results.
[00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:21.680] So what I often find is that people are busy chasing trends and the latest hack that some social media guru came up with and they're not staying steady with what is working and they're not staying steady with those evergreen strategies like niching down and hyper consistency and improving your quality, the basics, like we talked about earlier.
[00:47:21.680 --> 00:47:27.600] It truly is the basics, the not-so-sexy things that generate the sexiest results.
[00:47:27.600 --> 00:47:30.040] But the reality is, it takes a long time.
[00:47:30.040 --> 00:47:31.240] It's not overnight.
[00:47:29.680 --> 00:47:32.920] It's not going to be instantaneous.
[00:47:33.240 --> 00:47:40.680] The other thing that I will say is: if you, and I hear this all the time, Brock, I've been posting the exact same style of content.
[00:47:40.680 --> 00:47:46.040] My quality has not changed in the last three years, but I'm not getting the views I used to.
[00:47:46.040 --> 00:47:48.520] And I will say, that's exactly the problem.
[00:47:48.520 --> 00:47:49.560] You haven't changed.
[00:47:49.560 --> 00:47:50.760] You haven't kept up.
[00:47:50.760 --> 00:47:56.200] I think as entrepreneurs, the evergreen strategies, those are the things that we need to stick to.
[00:47:56.200 --> 00:47:59.080] The things that are proven to work, that's what we stick to.
[00:47:59.080 --> 00:48:08.840] But we need to be adaptable in our presentation, in our style, in the way we present things, in the way that we show up online, because trends do change.
[00:48:08.840 --> 00:48:10.280] User habits do change.
[00:48:10.280 --> 00:48:15.240] I remember, you know, 2021, Instagram Reels, it was all about lip syncs.
[00:48:15.240 --> 00:48:19.480] Like, remember back in the day, every reel was like a lip sync of a trending audio.
[00:48:19.480 --> 00:48:19.960] Yes.
[00:48:20.360 --> 00:48:23.160] And then nowadays, different things are more popular.
[00:48:23.160 --> 00:48:25.960] Maybe B-roll was really popular in 2024.
[00:48:25.960 --> 00:48:30.840] Maybe now you're seeing more talking head videos with like more advanced editing.
[00:48:30.840 --> 00:48:33.240] In the video game world, they call it the meta.
[00:48:33.240 --> 00:48:36.920] It's basically like it's not the written rules, it's the unwritten rules.
[00:48:36.920 --> 00:48:38.760] And these are what's always changing.
[00:48:38.760 --> 00:48:41.240] These are the things that are always adapting.
[00:48:41.240 --> 00:48:50.280] And as the audience, as the average person stops liking one thing and starts preferring one other thing, that's why it feels like the algorithm is always changing.
[00:48:50.280 --> 00:48:52.680] It's constantly having minor tweaks.
[00:48:52.680 --> 00:48:58.600] But what we're really feeling over time is the change in user habits and preferences and behaviors.
[00:48:58.600 --> 00:49:00.440] I think this is such a good point.
[00:49:00.440 --> 00:49:03.960] And I did something yesterday that I've literally never done in my career.
[00:49:03.960 --> 00:49:08.680] And I've just realized like you can complain about the algorithm or you can try different things.
[00:49:08.680 --> 00:49:13.320] And I think one thing that can be so frustrating is people are not willing to experiment.
[00:49:13.320 --> 00:49:17.440] Like they look at everything so black and white as like a success and a failure.
[00:49:14.440 --> 00:49:19.840] And you said this earlier, like everything is a data point.
[00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:23.360] Like it, it just gives you information to move you forward.
[00:49:23.360 --> 00:49:24.560] And so yesterday.
[00:49:24.880 --> 00:49:28.720] I hired a local video team to come over as two people.
[00:49:28.720 --> 00:49:34.800] And we knocked out, I think it was 20 videos in 30 minutes plus like 15 B roll shots.
[00:49:34.800 --> 00:49:39.360] And one thing that I realized in the process is like, one, I was investing in this.
[00:49:39.360 --> 00:49:41.680] So I was going to make it worth every penny.
[00:49:41.680 --> 00:49:44.240] But two, I had to really sit down and get really clear.
[00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:45.920] What are the videos I want to shoot?
[00:49:45.920 --> 00:49:47.280] What do I want to try?
[00:49:47.280 --> 00:49:49.120] How do I need to prepare for this?
[00:49:49.120 --> 00:49:57.120] And it held me accountable to one, trying something totally different just to see how it works, how it feels, and what the results are.
[00:49:57.120 --> 00:50:02.880] But two, preparing the content in a different way and looking at it from a totally different standpoint.
[00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:06.320] And I think that that is honestly required in 2025.
[00:50:06.320 --> 00:50:08.720] It's like we have to get curious again.
[00:50:08.720 --> 00:50:12.720] And if we want different results, we have to be willing to try different things.
[00:50:12.720 --> 00:50:16.240] I don't know if those videos are going to hit or if they're going to fall flat.
[00:50:16.240 --> 00:50:22.560] But if I don't try, I literally have no right to complain that Instagram is not working for me.
[00:50:22.560 --> 00:50:24.080] Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
[00:50:24.080 --> 00:50:32.720] I think another element of what you just described, which such a good idea and one that I am 100% stealing, 100% going to do, is it held you accountable.
[00:50:33.360 --> 00:50:43.120] And so even if someone's listening and they don't have the resources to hire a multi-person team to come over and shoot content, what if you just had like had your bestie hold you accountable?
[00:50:43.120 --> 00:50:45.680] What if you had your business partner hold you accountable?
[00:50:45.680 --> 00:50:53.680] What if you selected like one of your customers and you're like, hey, this is going to be weird, but I'm going to ask you to be my accountability partner and found someone like that.
[00:50:53.680 --> 00:50:58.800] I think that that is such a growth hack because we're always going to cheat ourselves.
[00:50:58.800 --> 00:51:04.600] You know, we're always like, I can't tell you how many times I've put on my calendar, like, I got to film some short form videos today.
[00:51:04.600 --> 00:51:04.840] Yeah.
[00:51:04.840 --> 00:51:05.880] I'm like, tomorrow.
[00:50:59.840 --> 00:51:06.680] Yeah.
[00:51:07.080 --> 00:51:07.560] Pass it off.
[00:51:07.960 --> 00:51:08.520] I'll do it tomorrow.
[00:51:08.520 --> 00:51:10.760] I'll do other things today, more important things.
[00:51:10.760 --> 00:51:14.280] But if we had someone else holding us accountable, you can't wait.
[00:51:14.280 --> 00:51:19.480] And like for myself, I have an editor who she expects eight videos from me every two weeks.
[00:51:19.480 --> 00:51:22.600] And so we get to that two-week deadline and I haven't made those videos.
[00:51:22.600 --> 00:51:24.120] I got someone holding me accountable.
[00:51:24.280 --> 00:51:25.880] So I couldn't agree more.
[00:51:25.880 --> 00:51:32.200] One other thing that I wanted to add here is with this idea of like experimenting and trying new things.
[00:51:32.200 --> 00:51:42.120] This comes directly from I recently had a conversation with not just the head of Instagram, but also the head of the Instagram for Business creative team.
[00:51:42.120 --> 00:51:47.320] So they're the official count that talks to business owners, small business owners, about Instagram.
[00:51:47.320 --> 00:51:48.600] They have like 20 million followers.
[00:51:48.600 --> 00:51:57.480] And I talked to the head of their team and he said, one of the biggest mistakes you can make is looking at your competitors for inspiration.
[00:51:57.480 --> 00:52:00.680] Because then at best, you're going to come in second place.
[00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:03.400] He said instead, I thought this was so good.
[00:52:03.400 --> 00:52:07.960] Look outside of your industry for inspiration and ideas.
[00:52:07.960 --> 00:52:10.040] And oh my gosh, this is such a creative video.
[00:52:10.040 --> 00:52:11.720] I got to remake my own version.
[00:52:11.720 --> 00:52:16.840] Because then you're not becoming a parrot of someone else in your industry.
[00:52:16.840 --> 00:52:24.360] You're taking an amazing idea and you're the first person in your space, in your niche, in your industry to show up with that kind of content.
[00:52:24.360 --> 00:52:28.520] So I thought that was such a juicy tip that he gave and I couldn't agree more with it.
[00:52:28.520 --> 00:52:31.560] Don't you also think that'd be so much better for our mental health, too?
[00:52:31.560 --> 00:52:34.920] That we're not like following and mimicking our competitors.
[00:52:34.920 --> 00:52:41.960] I just think, too, from a standpoint of like creativity and challenging yourself, of like, what is my take on this?
[00:52:41.960 --> 00:52:44.760] Or like, how would this even apply to what I do?
[00:52:45.040 --> 00:52:46.880] I think that's genius.
[00:52:46.880 --> 00:52:58.800] And also, when we think back to what Adam said about like one of their goals is like more original content, that would be way more original than jumping on to something else that has already been done a million times.
[00:52:58.800 --> 00:53:00.240] I love that.
[00:53:00.240 --> 00:53:10.240] Brock, what is one thing that a listener today could take action on to get some sort of result on Instagram, especially if they've been feeling frustrated?
[00:53:10.240 --> 00:53:12.640] Yeah, I will have two things.
[00:53:13.280 --> 00:53:17.680] Number one, I will say lean into shareworthy content.
[00:53:17.680 --> 00:53:21.040] Shareworthy content is what Instagram is optimizing for.
[00:53:21.040 --> 00:53:23.520] They want our posts to be shared more.
[00:53:23.520 --> 00:53:26.560] The kind of post that when Jenna sees it, she sends it to me.
[00:53:26.560 --> 00:53:30.480] That doesn't need the algorithm to figure out who would be interested.
[00:53:30.480 --> 00:53:36.080] That is a person who is interested, Jenna, sending it to me, another person who she thinks would be interested.
[00:53:36.080 --> 00:53:44.000] Now that post has doubled its viewers from one to two, and I am another ideal perfect target viewer for that post.
[00:53:44.000 --> 00:53:45.200] That's what Instagram wants.
[00:53:45.200 --> 00:54:02.560] And so the more we can create this shareworthy content, be it a relatable meme or a joke, something that relates to pop culture and your niche, something that is maybe breaking news or timely or trendy, those sorts of things are oftentimes very shareworthy.
[00:54:02.560 --> 00:54:04.080] Leaning into that would be huge.
[00:54:04.080 --> 00:54:07.280] I would also say just look back at your own post from the past.
[00:54:07.280 --> 00:54:15.520] And if you have a post or maybe multiple that got a significantly higher amount of shares, hey, there's your idea.
[00:54:15.520 --> 00:54:19.360] Recreate that or repost that because it's already been proven to work.
[00:54:19.360 --> 00:54:21.200] That's the tactical tip.
[00:54:21.200 --> 00:54:27.280] My second thing that I wanted to say, and this is really what I want to leave people with, is there was plenty of great info today.
[00:54:27.280 --> 00:54:28.640] There was plenty of great info shared.
[00:54:28.640 --> 00:54:35.960] There's plenty of unlimited amount of helpful Instagram tips and strategies and advice that you can find online.
[00:54:35.960 --> 00:54:41.800] However, the only real way that you are going to get better is by actually pressing post.
[00:54:41.960 --> 00:54:50.360] By just pressing post, not overthinking, not overanalyzing, not watching another course that's going to help make your videos 1% better, but posting.
[00:54:50.360 --> 00:54:54.920] Because what I think we do way too often is we judge our posts before they're out into the world.
[00:54:54.920 --> 00:55:00.040] That doesn't make any sense because we're all horrible judges of our own content.
[00:55:00.040 --> 00:55:04.440] How many times have we, all of us, myself included, I know this has happened to you, Jenna.
[00:55:04.680 --> 00:55:06.920] You've made a post and you're like, oh, this is so good.
[00:55:06.920 --> 00:55:08.440] You post it, crickets.
[00:55:08.680 --> 00:55:11.400] And then on the other hand, you have a post that you're like, I just whipped this up.
[00:55:11.400 --> 00:55:12.280] I didn't even think about it.
[00:55:12.440 --> 00:55:16.200] Like, I whipped it up, I posted it, and then I was like doing something else and I forgot that I posted.
[00:55:16.200 --> 00:55:18.760] And you check it a few hours later and you're like, holy crap.
[00:55:19.160 --> 00:55:21.480] This was my best post of the month.
[00:55:21.480 --> 00:55:24.360] So we're all horrible judges of our own content.
[00:55:24.360 --> 00:55:27.000] So stop judging your own content.
[00:55:27.000 --> 00:55:28.200] Just press post.
[00:55:28.200 --> 00:55:32.440] Let the world, let your audience and your followers be the judge and then learn from it.
[00:55:32.440 --> 00:55:34.280] If it did horribly, what could be fixed?
[00:55:34.280 --> 00:55:38.680] If it did great, what small pieces could you take out and apply to your future reels?
[00:55:38.680 --> 00:55:42.360] But at the end of the day, that's only possible if you just press post.
[00:55:42.360 --> 00:55:42.840] Yes.
[00:55:42.840 --> 00:55:44.120] Oh my gosh.
[00:55:44.120 --> 00:55:47.320] I'm going to link to your interview with Adam.
[00:55:47.320 --> 00:55:51.320] Can you give us a little taste of what is inside of that interview?
[00:55:51.320 --> 00:55:55.800] Just because I think people should finish this episode and go listen to that one.
[00:55:55.800 --> 00:55:57.320] You did such a good job interviewing.
[00:55:57.560 --> 00:55:59.880] But it was such an insightful interview.
[00:55:59.880 --> 00:56:09.880] And I also think when we as creators know what Instagram is prioritizing, we can play into that prioritization and reap the rewards of that.
[00:56:09.880 --> 00:56:13.880] And so, give us a little taste of what's going down in that interview.
[00:56:13.880 --> 00:56:15.040] It was really insightful.
[00:56:15.040 --> 00:56:17.200] I think that there was a lot of value to be learned.
[00:56:14.760 --> 00:56:20.320] I don't think there was necessarily anything that was world-shattering.
[00:56:20.480 --> 00:56:24.000] There might have been a few things that some people, it might rock their world.
[00:56:24.000 --> 00:56:34.960] But I think in general, and I told this to him after the interview was done off air: if I was to boil our conversation down to one sentence, it would be, everybody just calm down.
[00:56:34.960 --> 00:56:37.520] He really demystifies a lot of the algorithm.
[00:56:37.520 --> 00:56:48.880] He debunks a lot of myths, things about hashtags, things about posting and ghosting, things about how much do you need to be online, all of these different topics that freak us out, you know, as people trying to grow on Instagram.
[00:56:48.880 --> 00:56:54.720] But he really simplified it and made it very practical and very obtainable for having success on Instagram.
[00:56:54.720 --> 00:56:57.040] That doesn't mean easy, but it doesn't mean simple.
[00:56:57.040 --> 00:57:00.160] And so, yeah, I highly encourage anyone listening to check that out.
[00:57:00.160 --> 00:57:03.360] Okay, where can everybody find out more about you?
[00:57:03.360 --> 00:57:08.240] Follow you, listen to your podcast, check out your YouTube, give us all the places.
[00:57:08.240 --> 00:57:10.800] Myspace.com forwards.
[00:57:10.800 --> 00:57:11.840] No, kidding.
[00:57:11.840 --> 00:57:13.840] Rock11 Johnson is my handle.
[00:57:13.840 --> 00:57:15.360] Instagram is the best place to get connected.
[00:57:15.360 --> 00:57:16.960] I'm super active in my DMs.
[00:57:16.960 --> 00:57:27.120] If anyone listened to today's episode and they want to take a screenshot and post a story and tag Jenna and I, or they want to send me a DM and tell me what their biggest lesson learned was, that would be awesome.
[00:57:27.120 --> 00:57:29.520] I would love to connect with people in the DMs.
[00:57:29.520 --> 00:57:31.920] But if not, just a follow on Instagram.
[00:57:31.920 --> 00:57:35.840] I try to post multiple times every day with helpful tips and strategies.
[00:57:35.840 --> 00:57:43.040] So even if you only see one of my posts a week, you're going to learn something and you're going to feel a little bit more capable on Instagram because of it.
[00:57:43.040 --> 00:57:43.600] Awesome.
[00:57:43.600 --> 00:57:50.160] And your podcast is Build Your Tribe, available on YouTube and Spotify and all the other podcast apps.
[00:57:50.160 --> 00:57:50.640] Awesome.
[00:57:50.640 --> 00:57:53.200] Brock, you are one of my favorite creators.
[00:57:53.200 --> 00:57:55.680] I feel like you keep me in the loop better than anyone else.
[00:57:55.680 --> 00:58:00.600] You're like my friend that's like giving me the elbow nudge of like, hey, here's what's going on right now.
[00:58:01.160 --> 00:58:14.120] And I also just think for anyone that's feeling stumped or curious about like how to create today, just following Brock will give you kind of a blueprint and a roadmap of looking at, okay, this is what I can try.
[00:58:14.120 --> 00:58:16.040] This is how I can make this work for me.
[00:58:16.040 --> 00:58:17.880] So definitely go out and give them a follow.
[00:58:17.880 --> 00:58:20.200] Thanks for coming on the show today, Brock.
[00:58:20.200 --> 00:58:20.600] Of course.
[00:58:20.600 --> 00:58:22.440] Thank you so much for having me.
[00:58:23.080 --> 00:58:29.160] Okay, this episode is exciting and terrifying in so many ways because Instagram is changing.
[00:58:29.160 --> 00:58:30.680] It's always been changing.
[00:58:30.680 --> 00:58:33.320] It literally changes every single day.
[00:58:33.320 --> 00:58:40.280] And so the way that we create and the way that we approach it as creators has to continue evolving, just like the app is.
[00:58:40.600 --> 00:58:52.520] What I think is interesting is it's going to really show us who is able and willing to keep up with it and who is okay with either underperforming or letting this piece of the business go.
[00:58:52.520 --> 00:58:58.040] One thing that I think is so important to evaluate when it comes to Instagram is: is the ROI there?
[00:58:58.040 --> 00:59:04.600] Is the return on your investment with both your time, your energy, and even your money worth it for you and your business?
[00:59:04.600 --> 00:59:08.360] And you need to be the CEO that knows the answer to that.
[00:59:08.360 --> 00:59:22.280] For me, my goal on Instagram is to connect with people there to get them off of the app and onto places where I can control their experience and serve them at a higher level, whether that's this podcast, my email list, or through the programs that I create.
[00:59:22.280 --> 00:59:35.800] And so, really getting clear on what are your goals on Instagram, what are you willing to do, what are you hoping to experiment with, and what actions can you take today will guide your strategy forward, even as the platform continues to change.
[00:59:35.800 --> 00:59:51.360] I also highly recommend following along with Brock because he is constantly dropping updates and keeping us in the loop as to what is working on the platform and leaning on the tried and true strategies that have been true for years and that are still true today, no matter what platform you're showing up on.
[00:59:51.680 --> 00:59:53.600] Thank you so much for listening to this episode.
[00:59:53.600 --> 00:59:58.400] If you know someone who could benefit from hearing this conversation, make sure you share it with them.
[00:59:58.400 --> 01:00:00.400] Just take a minute, hit the share button.
[01:00:00.400 --> 01:00:05.440] You're basically sending them strategy in a conversation that they can implement and take action on.
[01:00:05.440 --> 01:00:10.000] And of course, until next time, Gold Diggers, keep on digging your biggest goals.
[01:00:10.640 --> 01:00:14.320] Thanks for pulling up a seat for another episode of the Gold Digger Podcast.
[01:00:14.320 --> 01:00:23.680] I hope today's episode filled you with inspiration, gave you information that you can turn into action, and realigned you with your true north in life and business.
[01:00:23.680 --> 01:00:34.320] If you've enjoyed today's episode, head on over to goldiggerpodcast.com for today's show notes, discount codes for our sponsors, freebies to fuel your results, and so much more.
[01:00:34.320 --> 01:00:38.880] And if you haven't yet, make sure you're subscribed so that you never miss a future show.
[01:00:38.880 --> 01:00:41.280] We'll see you next time, Gold Diggers.