Debug Information
Processing Details
- VTT File: skepticast2024-08-31.vtt
- Processing Time: September 11, 2025 at 03:38 PM
- Total Chunks: 3
- Transcript Length: 184,211 characters
- Caption Count: 1,951 captions
Prompts Used
Prompt 1: Context Setup
You are an expert data extractor tasked with analyzing a podcast transcript.
I will provide you with part 1 of 3 from a podcast transcript.
I will then ask you to extract different types of information from this content in subsequent messages. Please confirm you have received and understood the transcript content.
Transcript section:
[00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:08.880] Imagine you're a business owner relying on a dozen different software programs, each one disconnected, more expensive, and more complicated than the last.
[00:00:08.880 --> 00:00:11.280] It can be incredibly stressful, right?
[00:00:11.280 --> 00:00:13.360] Now, picture Odo.
[00:00:13.360 --> 00:00:17.600] Odu brings all the tools your business needs into one simple platform.
[00:00:17.600 --> 00:00:23.920] CRM, accounting, inventory, manufacturing, marketing, HR, and more.
[00:00:23.920 --> 00:00:26.080] All seamlessly connected.
[00:00:26.080 --> 00:00:31.760] Everything works together, giving you the peace of mind that your business is running smoothly from every angle.
[00:00:31.760 --> 00:00:38.720] Odu's open source applications are user-friendly and designed to scale with your business, saving you time and money.
[00:00:38.720 --> 00:00:44.000] Say goodbye to juggling multiple platforms and hello to efficient integrated management.
[00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:48.560] Stop wasting resources on complicated systems and make the switch to Odo today.
[00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:56.960] Visit Odu.com, ODOO.com, and discover how Odu can simplify and streamline your business operations.
[00:00:56.960 --> 00:01:00.320] Odu, Modern Management Made Simple.
[00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:06.480] You're listening to the Skeptic's Guide to the Universe.
[00:01:06.480 --> 00:01:09.360] Your escape to reality.
[00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:12.720] Hello and welcome to the Skeptic's Guide to the Universe.
[00:01:12.720 --> 00:01:16.800] Today is August 28th, 2024, and this is your host, Stephen Novella.
[00:01:16.800 --> 00:01:18.560] Joining me this week are Bob Novella.
[00:01:18.560 --> 00:01:19.200] Hey, everybody.
[00:01:19.200 --> 00:01:20.640] Kara Santa Maria.
[00:01:20.640 --> 00:01:21.120] Howdy.
[00:01:21.120 --> 00:01:22.080] Jay Novella.
[00:01:22.080 --> 00:01:24.480] Hey, guys, and Evan Bernstein.
[00:01:24.480 --> 00:01:25.840] Good evening, everyone.
[00:01:25.840 --> 00:01:28.640] This is episode 999.
[00:01:28.640 --> 00:01:28.960] Whoa.
[00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:30.240] No, no.
[00:01:30.960 --> 00:01:32.320] 99.
[00:01:32.960 --> 00:01:33.840] It's crazy.
[00:01:34.480 --> 00:01:35.360] It's amazing.
[00:01:35.360 --> 00:01:40.480] Next week, obviously, we will air our 1000th episode, which we just recorded in Chicago.
[00:01:40.720 --> 00:01:42.000] The odometer turns over.
[00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:43.280] Turns over.
[00:01:43.520 --> 00:01:51.760] It kind of breaks my nomenclature for the episodes because, you know, I do like 001, 002, and then build up from the...
[00:01:52.480 --> 00:01:53.040] Oh, no.
[00:01:53.040 --> 00:01:54.640] You've only been using three digits?
[00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:56.080] Yeah, are they going to be in order now?
[00:01:56.560 --> 00:01:58.000] Are we going to have a Y2K thing here?
[00:01:58.240 --> 00:03:32.800] It's an SGUK thing a thousand episodes that'll be plenty no way we'll never make it that far so yeah so now I have to start with what yeah with one thousand it's fine it won't matter to it won't matter to users because you know the episodes are dated and they're they're organized by date and I use the international dating sequence because that scans better you know that or that will if you organize it it'll be in order what's it year month day year month day oh okay yeah yeah if you use the American one then it doesn't work the American one confuses literally everybody yeah month day like month day year does not in anything wrong with that but it doesn't go in any reasonable order other than the fact we express ourselves when we speak we do but a lot of other places they don't they would say 28th of August they wouldn't say August 28th but it doesn't matter if you're saying out the month's name but if you go 822 or worse 89 then that's confusing right super confusing I get hit with that all the time so we need to eliminate the first 12 days of the year problem solve the first 12 days of the month I should say for me I mean I get I do it because it's what we do but like the chron it no not chronology what's the word I'm looking for like the order doesn't make sense because you either go small to big or big to small but what we do is we go medium to small to big that's weird I agree the international system makes more sense which is why that's what I use and the title names.
[00:03:32.800 --> 00:03:34.800] But yeah, you get used to it.
[00:03:34.800 --> 00:03:36.160] We're creatures of habit.
[00:03:36.480 --> 00:03:37.120] Indeed.
[00:03:37.120 --> 00:03:39.600] All right, well, yeah, we're going to get right to the show this year.
[00:03:40.240 --> 00:03:40.640] This year.
[00:03:40.880 --> 00:03:41.360] This episode.
[00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:42.480] We're going to get right to the show.
[00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:44.000] This month.
[00:03:44.680 --> 00:03:48.720] Kara, you're going to start us off with a what's the word?
[00:03:48.720 --> 00:03:49.280] I am.
[00:03:49.280 --> 00:04:00.640] So, this what's the word is courtesy of James from Asheville, North Carolina, in a particular county, which will become relevant very soon.
[00:04:00.640 --> 00:04:07.600] He brought up the word bunk or debunk as a word of interest.
[00:04:07.600 --> 00:04:09.200] And so I was like, okay, why?
[00:04:09.200 --> 00:04:14.720] Yeah, we use the word bunk a lot in the skeptical movement, but I don't know, how interesting could it be?
[00:04:14.720 --> 00:04:18.640] I love the etymology of this word, so let's get into it.
[00:04:18.640 --> 00:04:27.040] Obviously, when we think about the word bunk, not in the sense that we use it as skeptics, but a, you know, sleeping.
[00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:30.080] Okay, actually, it comes from the nautical term.
[00:04:30.080 --> 00:04:39.360] So it was a bunk was in a boat to begin with, in a vessel, and then it was in a railway car, and then it became something that was in like a fixed dwelling.
[00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:40.240] Talking about a bed?
[00:04:40.240 --> 00:04:43.280] Yeah, a bed, a sleeping berth, as they called it.
[00:04:43.280 --> 00:04:47.280] That came about in like the 1700s.
[00:04:47.280 --> 00:04:52.320] A bunk bed, it looks like, wasn't a thing until 1869.
[00:04:52.320 --> 00:04:55.360] The origins of that, they're a little weird.
[00:04:55.360 --> 00:05:05.920] They think maybe it was based on this like Scottish English word bunker, which was kind of an interesting local term for a seat or a bench.
[00:05:05.920 --> 00:05:07.280] Nobody really knows the origin.
[00:05:07.280 --> 00:05:11.040] Might be Scandinavian, might be, you know, Swedish, but they don't really know.
[00:05:11.040 --> 00:05:11.680] Okay, fine.
[00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:12.960] That's that word.
[00:05:12.960 --> 00:05:16.400] But when we talk about bunk in the skeptical sense, right?
[00:05:16.400 --> 00:05:17.920] Like nonsense, baloney.
[00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:19.200] Come on, give me some synonyms.
[00:05:19.200 --> 00:05:19.840] Hokum.
[00:05:19.840 --> 00:05:20.400] Hocum.
[00:05:20.400 --> 00:05:21.120] Balderdash.
[00:05:21.520 --> 00:05:22.000] Balderdash.
[00:05:22.080 --> 00:05:25.360] I was going to say haberdashery, but then I was like, that's hat-making.
[00:05:25.360 --> 00:05:26.400] That's not right.
[00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:27.360] Balderdash.
[00:05:27.360 --> 00:05:28.720] That's what I was looking for.
[00:05:28.720 --> 00:05:34.200] It has nothing to do with a bunk in which you sleep.
[00:05:34.840 --> 00:05:38.440] So, yeah, so I am going to read a quote.
[00:05:38.440 --> 00:05:42.200] This is quoted directly out of Merriam-Webster because they could say it better than I could.
[00:05:42.200 --> 00:05:43.080] Here we go.
[00:05:43.080 --> 00:05:46.920] You could almost say it was an act of Congress that brought this word into being.
[00:05:46.920 --> 00:05:57.560] Back in 1820, Felix Walker, who represented North Carolina's Bunkum County, that spelled B-U-N-C-O-M-B-E in the U.S.
[00:05:57.560 --> 00:06:07.720] House of Representatives, was determined that his voice be heard on his constituents' behalf, even though the matter up for debate was irrelevant to his district and he had little to contribute.
[00:06:07.720 --> 00:06:18.120] To the exasperation of his colleagues, he insisted on delivering a long and wearisome speech for bunkum, which turned into a speech full of bunkum.
[00:06:18.440 --> 00:06:28.680] And this long speech became a synonym at the time for meaningless political claptrap, and they changed the spelling to make it more phonetic.
[00:06:28.680 --> 00:06:36.920] So instead of B-U-N-C-O-M-B-E, it became bunkum, B-U-N-K-U-M, which was then shortened to bunk.
[00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:53.000] So this is an American invention from a politician who, as our friend from, our friend James from Asheville in Bunkum County, North Carolina said, he rode his horse all the way to DC to speak to Congress.
[00:06:53.000 --> 00:06:59.880] They'd been debating for weeks about Missouri joining the Union as a free state or slave state.
[00:06:59.880 --> 00:07:05.000] And he wanted his constituents back in western North Carolina to know he was on the job.
[00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:09.800] So he just kept talking about bunkum for like hours.
[00:07:09.800 --> 00:07:13.560] And eventually this became part of the American lexicon.
[00:07:13.560 --> 00:07:22.160] And then later, there was a book written by American journalist Edward Woodward called Bunk.
[00:07:22.160 --> 00:07:24.480] It was written in 1923.
[00:07:24.480 --> 00:07:28.320] And he actually coined the term debunk.
[00:07:28.320 --> 00:07:38.720] And he said this: quote, to keep the United States thoroughly debunked would require the continual services of half a million persons.
[00:07:38.720 --> 00:07:46.720] At the time, he was devoting a lot of time to debunking conspiracy theories and misinformation in the United States.
[00:07:46.720 --> 00:07:47.840] 100 years ago.
[00:07:47.840 --> 00:07:48.480] Right.
[00:07:48.480 --> 00:07:49.360] I love this.
[00:07:49.360 --> 00:07:53.120] Thank you so much for your suggestion, James.
[00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:54.000] What a colorful.
[00:07:54.240 --> 00:07:59.040] It's not often that we know, like, we really can pin down the etymology of a word.
[00:07:59.040 --> 00:08:01.040] It's always fun when there's a great story behind it.
[00:08:01.600 --> 00:08:02.560] Yep, love it.
[00:08:02.560 --> 00:08:02.880] All right.
[00:08:02.880 --> 00:08:03.600] Thanks, Kara.
[00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:08.080] Jay, yo, give us an update on the Starliner hubbub.
[00:08:08.080 --> 00:08:11.680] Yeah, this is, there's a lot to this, this whole thing that went down here.
[00:08:11.680 --> 00:08:23.040] So, you know, just as a quick recap, NASA and Boeing had to make a decision on what was going to happen regarding the two astronauts that got pretty much stranded on the ISS.
[00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:27.360] And those two astronauts are Sunita Williams and Butch Wilmore.
[00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:30.400] So right now, they're currently aboard the International Space Station.
[00:08:30.400 --> 00:08:32.160] They were only supposed to be there a week.
[00:08:32.160 --> 00:08:40.960] They launched on June 5th, 2024, aboard Boeing's Starliner capsule as part of this crew flight test that they've been doing.
[00:08:40.960 --> 00:08:44.560] This was the first time that Starliner was used for a crewed mission.
[00:08:44.560 --> 00:08:46.320] And issues arose.
[00:08:46.320 --> 00:08:51.440] Unfortunately, Starliner's propulsion system had some problems with the thrusters.
[00:08:51.440 --> 00:08:57.200] And NASA believes it's too risky to bring them home using that capsule.
[00:08:57.200 --> 00:09:06.040] So the details behind this are during Starliner's docking with the ISS, five of the 28 reaction control thrusters malfunctioned.
[00:09:06.920 --> 00:09:10.760] These thrusters are pretty important to orienting the ship.
[00:09:11.320 --> 00:09:12.200] Five of them?
[00:09:12.200 --> 00:09:12.840] Yeah.
[00:09:12.840 --> 00:09:20.360] And it was a significant concern for NASA because, you know, of course, they're like, you know, the safety of the astronauts is paramount.
[00:09:20.360 --> 00:09:26.520] And NASA and Boeing extended the astronauts' stay on the ISS to give them time to troubleshoot the problem.
[00:09:26.520 --> 00:09:29.480] And they have not been able to come up with a solution.
[00:09:29.960 --> 00:09:32.920] There's no solution to be figured out at this point.
[00:09:32.920 --> 00:09:38.600] So the Starliner already had challenges during its initial launch.
[00:09:38.600 --> 00:09:45.000] There was a helium leak, and the thruster malfunction during docking was considered to be very serious, right?
[00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:47.960] And of course, NASA is going to take this very seriously.
[00:09:47.960 --> 00:09:55.160] They decided to return Williams and Wilmore to Earth no earlier than February 2025.
[00:09:55.160 --> 00:09:58.920] And they've also decided that they're going to use a SpaceX Dragon capsule.
[00:09:58.920 --> 00:10:05.240] And the Dragon capsule that they're going to use is part of SpaceX's Crew-9 mission.
[00:10:05.240 --> 00:10:12.120] And this mission will now be modified to accommodate the two astronauts' return back to Earth.
[00:10:12.120 --> 00:10:18.120] So what they're doing is they're modifying the layout of the Dragon capsule.
[00:10:18.120 --> 00:10:19.640] It'll have more cargo space.
[00:10:19.640 --> 00:10:21.960] There'll be space for personal items.
[00:10:22.360 --> 00:10:33.240] And then the astronauts have to use the Dragon-specific spacesuits, which I guess work in tandem with the way that their module was manufactured and designed.
[00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:42.120] The Crew-9 mission is going to launch with only two crew members going up, which will create the space for Williams and Wilmore to go back home on the return trip.
[00:10:42.120 --> 00:10:51.600] Now, NASA and Boeing plan to return the Starliner capsule to Earth without a crew in it on September in September of 2024.
[00:10:51.600 --> 00:10:53.040] And of course, I expected this.
[00:10:53.040 --> 00:10:54.800] I didn't know how long they were going to leave it up there.
[00:10:54.800 --> 00:10:57.360] You know, at some point, they have to go, look, we can't fix it up there.
[00:10:57.360 --> 00:11:00.000] We just got to bring it down and hope for the best.
[00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:03.200] So, of course, you know, we're hoping that the capsule does make it back.
[00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:07.040] They're going to land it at White Sands Space Harbor in New Mexico.
[00:11:07.040 --> 00:11:19.280] And the uncrewed descent is going to by itself be classified as an uncrewed test flight because, in essence, they are testing to see what happens when some of these engines are not functioning.
[00:11:19.280 --> 00:11:28.480] And they're going to also modify the separation technique to a more simplified one that will hopefully work with the limited engines that they have.
[00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:43.040] And NASA Administrator Bill Nelson said that the decision to prioritize a safety was influenced by the past tragedies that NASA went through, which include the Challenger and the Columbia Space Shuttle accidents that took place.
[00:11:43.040 --> 00:11:47.280] In those two cases, concerns were brought up, but they were not handled properly, right?
[00:11:47.280 --> 00:11:52.000] They didn't address the issues, and there's too much red tape and blah, blah, blah.
[00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:52.720] You know what I mean?
[00:11:52.720 --> 00:12:04.640] So, big, expensive government agencies like NASA, you know, back then when these accidents were happening, like, just didn't have the internal systems to handle, you know, this type of thing.
[00:12:04.640 --> 00:12:06.640] So, NASA has changed their culture.
[00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:17.680] They've changed the way that they handle these situations, and their new culture encourages transparency, open communication, directly to avoid repeating mistakes that they've made in the past.
[00:12:17.680 --> 00:12:21.840] This is exactly the kind of changes that we want to hear, of course.
[00:12:22.160 --> 00:12:24.560] So, yeah, everybody's disappointed.
[00:12:24.560 --> 00:12:29.960] You know, people that work at Boeing are disappointed that they couldn't complete the crew flight test.
[00:12:29.600 --> 00:12:35.960] And NASA and Boeing, though, are recommitting to further understanding what happened, resolving the issues.
[00:12:36.280 --> 00:12:41.080] They want to get the Starliners thrusters completely fixed and get them back in the game.
[00:12:41.080 --> 00:12:46.280] So, NASA is remaining optimistic about the future of Starliner and the Starliner program.
[00:12:46.280 --> 00:12:53.960] And, of course, NASA is smart enough to know that they want to have multiple crewed flight options for the ISS, right?
[00:12:53.960 --> 00:13:05.880] They don't want Boeing to drop out because they want them to compete with SpaceX and for them to both continue to improve their technology for exactly reasons like this, right?
[00:13:05.880 --> 00:13:10.600] We don't have a command module or anything that we could send up that can bring them home right now.
[00:13:10.600 --> 00:13:12.360] There just isn't the option.
[00:13:12.360 --> 00:13:19.160] And luckily, they could stay up in the ISS and it really won't put any strain on anything going on up there.
[00:13:19.160 --> 00:13:25.960] So, they're going to encourage Boeing to continue to invest time and money into this to make their equipment work properly.
[00:13:25.960 --> 00:13:35.160] Now, the decision to keep the astronauts on the ISS until February 2025 means that they have this really long extended stay of about eight months.
[00:13:35.160 --> 00:13:43.720] And NASA's ISS program manager, Dana Weigel, indicated that the station operations and the supply and everything, it's not under strain.
[00:13:43.720 --> 00:13:44.840] Like I said, it's all good.
[00:13:44.840 --> 00:13:45.640] They can handle it.
[00:13:45.640 --> 00:13:47.720] They have, you know, they have plenty of backup.
[00:13:47.720 --> 00:13:49.240] And there's a few other things I looked up here.
[00:13:49.240 --> 00:13:51.320] I think there's some obvious questions here.
[00:13:51.320 --> 00:13:55.240] Why couldn't they use another space capsule or a Soyuz capsule?
[00:13:55.240 --> 00:13:56.520] Like, what's happening?
[00:13:57.080 --> 00:13:59.560] And the answer is kind of complicated.
[00:13:59.800 --> 00:14:07.640] You know, Boeing, Starliner, and SpaceX Dragon capsules are specifically designed to interface with NASA's system.
[00:14:07.640 --> 00:14:11.720] You know, the ISS docking ports and everything are configured a particular way.
[00:14:11.720 --> 00:14:15.280] You know, it's all very, very much well planned out.
[00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:17.360] They know exactly how these things fit together and everything.
[00:14:17.520 --> 00:14:25.680] Now, to put it very plainly, the Russian spacecraft, like the Soyuz command module, they just simply have different designs for docking mechanisms.
[00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:27.840] The Soyuz goes to the ISS all the time.
[00:14:27.840 --> 00:14:30.640] Yeah, but they have to make it compatible.
[00:14:30.640 --> 00:14:41.120] And I guess the one that they could use, if they were going to take one of their command modules, they'd have to pull it off of another program that it's designed for that isn't designed to connect to the space shuttle.
[00:14:41.440 --> 00:14:42.720] And that's a big deal.
[00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:47.840] And they, so NASA and Roscosmos always prioritize their missions first.
[00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:49.520] So, yes, they want to help each other.
[00:14:49.520 --> 00:14:51.680] Yes, we work in coordination with them.
[00:14:51.680 --> 00:14:58.160] Of course, we're lucky outside of all the crazy politics that are happening, like you know, these two space agencies, they work with each other.
[00:14:58.160 --> 00:15:02.080] But they just didn't have the spacecraft to help them.
[00:15:02.080 --> 00:15:05.120] There are political considerations that do come into play.
[00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:07.600] There's and also safety concerns and everything.
[00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:14.560] NASA just really wanted to use the SpaceX Dragon capsule because they know that they have confidence in it and it's safe and reliable.
[00:15:14.720 --> 00:15:20.640] Now, there's consequences for Boeing as well, which I would think makes perfect sense here.
[00:15:20.640 --> 00:15:25.440] Internally, first, there's disappointment and a sense of urgency to resolve the problems, right?
[00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:33.840] People that work at Boeing, Boeing engineers, they've been working really hard to figure it out, understand everything, and fix these thrusters.
[00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:38.160] They're conducting ground tests, they're doing simulations to replicate the conditions.
[00:15:38.640 --> 00:15:40.400] They're doing everything that they can.
[00:15:40.400 --> 00:15:46.800] But it was a black eye for them, and they have lost street cred now, which is bad.
[00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:50.480] Yeah, this is, but it didn't happen in a vacuum.
[00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:53.040] We've been losing faith in Boeing for a long time.
[00:15:53.040 --> 00:15:55.280] This was another death by a thousand paper.
[00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:55.920] Oh, of course.
[00:15:55.920 --> 00:15:59.520] I mean, this is all part of the bigger thing that's happening with them.
[00:15:59.520 --> 00:15:59.960] Yeah.
[00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:06.200] And it's just another crappy layer to this situation that Boeing is going through.
[00:16:06.520 --> 00:16:09.480] You know, but like I said, NASA is like, okay, you're going to be fine.
[00:16:09.480 --> 00:16:10.360] Work it through.
[00:16:10.360 --> 00:16:15.400] You know, build this thing and make it work so we can count on you in the future.
[00:16:15.560 --> 00:16:18.040] And, you know, they're giving them good money to do it.
[00:16:18.040 --> 00:16:23.480] But, you know, it's not crystal clear what's going to happen with Boeing and Starliner right now.
[00:16:23.480 --> 00:16:28.680] And then another thing I wanted to clarify was the astronaut pay hubbub.
[00:16:28.680 --> 00:16:30.520] Have you guys been hearing like the chatter online?
[00:16:31.240 --> 00:16:32.680] Are they going to get more money?
[00:16:32.840 --> 00:16:36.040] You know, do they give them millions of dollars if they get stuck on the ice?
[00:16:36.840 --> 00:16:40.200] Oh, I'm sure this is such a lucrative job for an astronaut.
[00:16:40.360 --> 00:16:41.560] Well, I have the details, guys.
[00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:43.160] I got it all.
[00:16:43.160 --> 00:16:44.280] I got it all for you.
[00:16:44.280 --> 00:16:44.680] Cool.
[00:16:44.680 --> 00:16:45.160] All right.
[00:16:45.160 --> 00:16:51.000] So, astronauts who end up having to stay longer on the International Space Station or whatever, right?
[00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:55.080] Like, does anything like this due to unforeseen circumstances?
[00:16:55.080 --> 00:16:57.320] They already have clauses in their contract.
[00:16:57.320 --> 00:16:59.160] It says suck it up.
[00:16:59.160 --> 00:17:04.440] They do not receive special or additional pay for being stranded.
[00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:05.480] Now, keep this in mind.
[00:17:05.480 --> 00:17:07.400] They're on the bankroll.
[00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:09.400] They are being paid a salary, right?
[00:17:09.400 --> 00:17:10.120] They get money.
[00:17:10.440 --> 00:17:11.000] They're employees.
[00:17:11.320 --> 00:17:20.680] Whether they're in space or on the ground, they got the astronauts busy working, you know, public appearances, crafting new technology, everything.
[00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:22.600] These people are crazy busy.
[00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:26.280] Yeah, but your life is infinitely harder in space.
[00:17:26.280 --> 00:17:28.920] I know, I know, but there are government employees.
[00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:35.240] Most of them are government employees, and they receive allowances and benefits related to their work in space.
[00:17:35.240 --> 00:17:43.000] Like, you know, there is some things that they'll get other money depending on the circumstance of them being in outer space.
[00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:49.040] But it's not, you know, like hazard duty could come in, post-mission bonuses can come into play, stuff like that.
[00:17:44.840 --> 00:17:51.120] But it isn't like this major change.
[00:17:51.600 --> 00:17:54.320] It's like a regular job in a lot of ways, all right?
[00:17:54.320 --> 00:17:58.880] But I wonder if there's some sort of insurance policy that they can, because I don't know.
[00:17:58.880 --> 00:18:00.320] Can you imagine?
[00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:02.080] Imagine for a second.
[00:18:02.080 --> 00:18:05.120] You have a business trip to Milwaukee for a week.
[00:18:05.120 --> 00:18:05.680] Yeah, yep.
[00:18:05.680 --> 00:18:09.680] And then you get stuck there for eight months away from your family.
[00:18:09.920 --> 00:18:11.920] But it is part of this job, right?
[00:18:11.920 --> 00:18:12.080] Yeah.
[00:18:12.320 --> 00:18:19.920] So while their situation might be unique, but it doesn't automatically trigger extra pay beyond the standard allowances for extended missions.
[00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:21.200] And that's just the way it works.
[00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:22.560] And check it out.
[00:18:22.560 --> 00:18:23.280] Here we go.
[00:18:23.600 --> 00:18:30.160] They are considered to be GS-12 to GS-14 pay grades, right?
[00:18:30.560 --> 00:18:31.360] What happened to 13?
[00:18:31.600 --> 00:18:32.080] No.
[00:18:33.120 --> 00:18:33.760] 12 to 14.
[00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:34.480] Oh, okay.
[00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:35.680] I thought they were being superstitious.
[00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:39.840] A GS12 starting salary, just guess what it is.
[00:18:39.840 --> 00:18:40.640] GS12.
[00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:42.080] $40,000 a year.
[00:18:42.080 --> 00:18:43.040] Astronaut pay, right?
[00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:43.840] This is astronaut pay.
[00:18:44.320 --> 00:18:45.120] $90,000 a year.
[00:18:45.280 --> 00:18:47.200] $175,000.
[00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:48.800] Starting pay, $86,000 a year.
[00:18:48.800 --> 00:18:49.440] Yeah, that's what I thought.
[00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:50.400] $86,000.
[00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:55.600] GS13, typically between $102,000 and $120,000 annually.
[00:18:55.600 --> 00:19:00.320] And then when you get to the GS-14, this is when the big bucks start rolling in.
[00:19:01.040 --> 00:19:03.440] They go from $120,000 to $160,000.
[00:19:03.440 --> 00:19:06.560] $160,000, like for the really seasoned people.
[00:19:06.560 --> 00:19:11.280] Now, these salaries don't include additional allowances and benefits that astronauts might receive.
[00:19:11.280 --> 00:19:14.960] Like I said, there's housing allowances and some hazard pay duty.
[00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:15.840] You know, there's little things.
[00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:17.040] Free air sick bags.
[00:19:17.360 --> 00:19:17.920] Yeah.
[00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:19.680] But they receive their salary.
[00:19:19.680 --> 00:19:22.960] Like I said, even when they're on the ground, it's a full-time gig.
[00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:27.280] And I can't help but think in the back of my mind, NASA's like, what are you complaining about?
[00:19:27.280 --> 00:19:31.880] You're an astronaut and you get to astralize yourself in the ISS, right?
[00:19:31.880 --> 00:19:34.520] You get to astro all you want for eight months.
[00:19:29.840 --> 00:19:37.160] Yeah, but the truth is, that is not what NASA's thinking.
[00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:43.160] And the reason I know this is because there have been some really beautiful documentaries made about the mental health of astronauts.
[00:19:43.400 --> 00:19:48.280] NASA is very concerned about these individuals' mental health.
[00:19:48.280 --> 00:19:49.240] I totally agree, Karen.
[00:19:49.480 --> 00:19:51.000] I'm actually joking around.
[00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:52.840] The point is, they're there.
[00:19:52.840 --> 00:19:54.040] It's their job.
[00:19:54.040 --> 00:19:57.720] They know that this is the way it works because what could NASA do?
[00:19:57.720 --> 00:20:02.760] And unfortunately, I would have liked to have known, like, hey, if something like this happens, we give you 500 grand.
[00:20:02.760 --> 00:20:06.360] You know, like, think about the billions of dollars that the government's spending.
[00:20:06.360 --> 00:20:09.160] And I told my wife, this was really impactful for me, right?
[00:20:09.160 --> 00:20:10.120] I'm reading about this.
[00:20:10.120 --> 00:20:10.840] I'm up to date.
[00:20:10.840 --> 00:20:14.440] I'm constantly reading all this stuff because I love all the space news, right?
[00:20:14.760 --> 00:20:17.160] So finally, I'm like, I better tell my wife about this.
[00:20:17.160 --> 00:20:18.280] I know she probably hasn't read it.
[00:20:18.280 --> 00:20:22.360] So I tell her, hey, astronauts went up for a mission to the ISS and they got stuck up there.
[00:20:22.520 --> 00:20:23.880] Guess how long they got to stay now?
[00:20:24.360 --> 00:20:25.800] They don't have a spacecraft to bring them down.
[00:20:25.800 --> 00:20:26.520] She's like, what?
[00:20:26.520 --> 00:20:27.480] A couple more weeks?
[00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:29.240] I'm like, no, it's going to be like eight months.
[00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:31.320] She almost started crying.
[00:20:31.320 --> 00:20:31.720] Yeah.
[00:20:31.720 --> 00:20:32.520] It's really sad.
[00:20:32.760 --> 00:20:34.360] And she got angry.
[00:20:34.360 --> 00:20:35.800] She's like, I can't believe it.
[00:20:35.800 --> 00:20:37.880] Birthdays are going to happen without them.
[00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:40.520] There might be deaths in the family.
[00:20:40.520 --> 00:20:41.800] There might be weddings in the family.
[00:20:42.120 --> 00:20:43.400] She was going for the whole.
[00:20:43.560 --> 00:20:44.520] They cast their vote.
[00:20:44.840 --> 00:20:45.000] Yeah.
[00:20:45.240 --> 00:20:47.480] Wait, they miss Halloween.
[00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:50.120] Wait, this is a real people.
[00:20:50.360 --> 00:20:51.560] Fire up every shuttle we have.
[00:20:51.560 --> 00:20:52.040] Let's go get it.
[00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:54.120] Bob, have you had Halloween on the ISS though?
[00:20:54.280 --> 00:20:56.120] Ooh, but I wouldn't have brought anything with me.
[00:20:56.120 --> 00:20:57.880] I wouldn't have anticipated it.
[00:20:57.880 --> 00:20:59.800] So here's another wrinkle, though, Jay.
[00:20:59.800 --> 00:21:01.240] I don't think you mentioned is that.
[00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:14.440] So, yes, they have to wait and for the next shuttle, for the next capsule to come down, which is the SpaceX Dragon capsule, but they're bumping two people from that capsule who have to stay longer, too.
[00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:16.000] So, this is like a domino effect.
[00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:25.520] Yeah, you know, I don't know when they're gonna catch up, you know, but they may have to plan an extra mission to the ISS to sort of get caught up at the crew exchange.
[00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:32.800] And that's the problem because, again, they don't have a bunch of command modules like ready to go for emergencies and stuff.
[00:21:32.800 --> 00:21:33.680] We're not there yet.
[00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:38.240] We're, you know, we're literally like the Starliner was just cleared.
[00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:38.960] Do you know what I mean?
[00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:41.920] Like, it's like this stuff is always like very last minute.
[00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:53.440] But it does show that when you know, NASA basically decided that they were going to contract with two companies to make redundant crewed capsule systems, and that was a good choice.
[00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:54.640] Absolutely good.
[00:21:54.960 --> 00:21:57.520] Imagine if Starliner were our only capsule.
[00:21:57.520 --> 00:21:59.920] Imagine how foobar that would be.
[00:21:59.920 --> 00:22:00.480] I totally agree.
[00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:01.680] That's really scary.
[00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:02.960] And look, if you think we should have three.
[00:22:03.120 --> 00:22:04.400] I think it's the culture.
[00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:05.520] Like, let's be honest.
[00:22:05.520 --> 00:22:09.920] Like, the NASA culture is this really interesting government.
[00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:17.680] Like, now it's government-private, but a lot of astronauts were either scientists or pilots.
[00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:18.000] Yes.
[00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:24.560] NASA is not the military, but I would not be surprised if culturally you saw some similarities.
[00:22:24.560 --> 00:22:28.160] When these astronauts were probably told, I have some bad news.
[00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:32.240] I can only imagine that their response was, I will serve in the best way that I can.
[00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:35.360] This is, you know, I want to be here.
[00:22:35.360 --> 00:22:36.720] I want to be doing this.
[00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:39.760] And the two people that got bumped, I'm sure they weren't petty about it.
[00:22:39.760 --> 00:22:42.080] I'm sure they were like, that is how this goes.
[00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:43.920] And I think that's something to really honor.
[00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:44.800] It is part of the job.
[00:22:44.800 --> 00:22:50.320] What I worry about is the impact on their families, all the things back home that they're not able to attend to.
[00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:56.800] I just can't imagine that there wouldn't be some sort of insurance policy or some sort of, it's not about their paycheck.
[00:22:56.800 --> 00:23:18.760] It's about all of the downstream things that this unforeseen absence is costing them yeah but military families are i think they're used to that as well i think so too yeah it's a big part of yeah it's it's a sacrifice for sure Well, we hope it all turns out well, but yeah, it was disappointing that they had to basically scrub the star laner return.
[00:23:18.760 --> 00:23:29.000] Guys, I want to talk about a topic many of us are very familiar with, role-playing and role-playing games, but from a therapeutic perspective.
[00:23:29.320 --> 00:23:34.760] Now, this is an interesting timing because this is the 50th anniversary of Dungeons and Dragons.
[00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:38.360] And I don't know if you guys saw the commemorative stamps.
[00:23:38.680 --> 00:23:39.080] Yes.
[00:23:39.400 --> 00:23:39.800] Oh, yes.
[00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:42.680] Liz Bots are so cool.
[00:23:42.680 --> 00:23:43.800] And they're big.
[00:23:43.800 --> 00:23:44.680] Don't use them.
[00:23:44.680 --> 00:23:45.880] Yeah, they're pretty.
[00:23:46.120 --> 00:23:46.920] I like them.
[00:23:46.920 --> 00:23:48.760] So there's a couple of things going on here.
[00:23:48.760 --> 00:23:59.640] One is the arc that tabletop role-playing games and Dungeons and Dragons DD in particular has taken in our culture over the last 50 years.
[00:23:59.640 --> 00:24:07.800] And also just the concept of using role-playing for therapy, for counseling, or for part of, you know, for therapeutic purposes.
[00:24:08.040 --> 00:24:19.240] This is inspired by our recent study, which I blogged about today, or which I blogged about yesterday, which looked at the use of role-playing games to help Autistic people.
[00:24:19.240 --> 00:24:20.520] But let's back up.
[00:24:20.520 --> 00:24:21.720] We'll get to that in a moment.
[00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:36.520] So you guys remember, Kara, this is probably before your time when you weren't paying too much attention to it, but back in like the late 70s, early 80s, I know like most of us started tabletopping, DD and tabletop role-playing had a massive stigma associated with it.
[00:24:36.520 --> 00:24:37.240] Oh my God.
[00:24:37.720 --> 00:24:39.000] Devil worship.
[00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:40.600] Well, there was, and there was two angles.
[00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:42.200] There were two aspects to that stigma.
[00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:49.120] One was this is the domain of geeks and nerds and like extreme geeks.
[00:24:49.360 --> 00:24:50.000] You know what I mean?
[00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:55.120] Like these are, and like the gratuitous joke is that these are people who can't get girlfriends, right?
[00:24:55.120 --> 00:24:57.520] I mean, that stigma still exists.
[00:24:57.520 --> 00:24:58.720] It's just maybe not as blatant.
[00:24:59.520 --> 00:25:00.000] It does.
[00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:03.680] I agree, but it's now it's way less in my experience.
[00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:07.840] It's often loving and not as cutting as it used to be.
[00:25:07.840 --> 00:25:11.360] But it was like a serious, you know, cut.
[00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:18.000] Yeah, but I think if you ask any high school kid who's really like, they probably still get shit for it.
[00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:18.480] Yeah.
[00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:21.040] They're probably still bullied for that, which is sad.
[00:25:21.040 --> 00:25:22.480] Yeah, I mean, it's really sad.
[00:25:23.200 --> 00:25:25.600] There's still different subcultures in school, absolutely.
[00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:27.920] I don't think this is.
[00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:30.960] I don't think geek culture is as much on the fringe as it used to be.
[00:25:31.120 --> 00:25:35.120] And when it was burgeoning, right, it was all everything was new about it.
[00:25:36.320 --> 00:25:39.680] It hadn't yet achieved sort of an acceptance level at all.
[00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:41.360] It was considered totally fringe.
[00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:49.440] And the other angle is what Bob brought up is that it was tied to the satanic panic of the 80s.
[00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:49.760] Oh, yes.
[00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:52.720] The fundamentalists went after it big time.
[00:25:52.720 --> 00:26:15.280] And then even beyond that, even in our town in Connecticut, there was a discussion on the school board, which we knew about because our father was on the school board, to ban it on school grounds because it was thought to be psychologically risky for students because there was, again, all these panic stories about it being tied to murder and suicide and all kinds of stuff.
[00:26:15.280 --> 00:26:16.160] Like ridiculous.
[00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:17.520] I know.
[00:26:17.760 --> 00:26:18.400] Good for you.
[00:26:18.560 --> 00:26:19.160] I know.
[00:26:19.160 --> 00:26:21.920] It's the opposite, but it was new and weird.
[00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:28.320] And so they're afraid, oh, these kids are going to act out their role-playing in real life or whatever.
[00:26:28.360 --> 00:26:32.600] You know, they're going to get almost like a cult kind of a thing.
[00:26:29.840 --> 00:26:37.000] But it was just pure fear of the unknown and the unfamiliar.
[00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:39.640] It really was not based upon anything.
[00:26:39.640 --> 00:26:51.080] And of course, the media hypes up the anecdotes, you know, stories of like individual kids who committed suicide or died by suicide and happened to be, happened to play DD, right?
[00:26:51.080 --> 00:26:55.960] And then the DD gets to blame for it, even though they had mental illness and depression, et cetera.
[00:26:55.960 --> 00:26:57.960] And or they were bullied relentlessly.
[00:26:57.960 --> 00:26:58.280] Yes.
[00:26:58.280 --> 00:26:58.440] Right.
[00:26:58.600 --> 00:26:59.080] So many factors.
[00:26:59.800 --> 00:26:59.960] Right.
[00:26:59.960 --> 00:27:02.280] The confounding factors are enormous.
[00:27:02.280 --> 00:27:04.360] But now I think things are very different.
[00:27:04.360 --> 00:27:07.480] I think mainly because it's one, it's just familiarity.
[00:27:07.480 --> 00:27:15.160] People realize it's not like satanic worship and it's not some kind of horrible cultural, you know, blight.
[00:27:15.160 --> 00:27:19.800] But also, I think that many adults today played when they were kids.
[00:27:19.800 --> 00:27:23.720] And so we know sort of firsthand that it's like just a game.
[00:27:24.280 --> 00:27:27.320] It's a completely wholesome activity.
[00:27:27.320 --> 00:27:37.400] Parallel to this, you know, role-playing obviously has existed for a long time as a one sub-genre of quote-unquote acting.
[00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:42.120] It's not acting, but it's like you have improv and role play and stage acting and whatever.
[00:27:42.120 --> 00:27:44.200] It's like one of those things.
[00:27:44.200 --> 00:27:49.720] But also really interesting is that it's been looked at for its therapeutic potential.
[00:27:49.720 --> 00:28:03.640] And even outside of gaming, just like role-playing in the context of you're with your therapist and you can say, okay, we're going to role-play whatever, like you doing what you're afraid of or talking to.
[00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:06.280] Or like a gestalt empty chair technique or something.
[00:28:06.680 --> 00:28:10.520] Yeah, the empty chair, you're talking to your father about whatever, how you feel about them.
[00:28:10.520 --> 00:28:11.400] Or you're you going to.
[00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:16.640] And so, and the therapeutic potential has been long recognized.
[00:28:16.960 --> 00:28:35.920] And the consensus is that in the therapy setting, it could help to teach new skills, could be used, incorporated into cognitive behavioral therapy, can identify negative patterns of behavior, can build confidence, and could also even be used to treat trauma.
[00:28:35.920 --> 00:28:38.800] So these are all pretty well-established applications.
[00:28:38.800 --> 00:28:40.800] And it improves your Thacko, too.
[00:28:40.800 --> 00:28:41.200] Absolutely.
[00:28:41.600 --> 00:28:42.720] That's an inside joke.
[00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:44.480] To hit AC0.
[00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:45.680] Thank you, Bob.
[00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:59.280] The recent study was interesting because not only was it looking at role-playing in a therapeutic context, it was specifically looking at playing DD as the form of role-playing.
[00:28:59.280 --> 00:29:03.360] And what they had the, this was more of a qualitative study.
[00:29:03.360 --> 00:29:18.720] So they basically had subjects who were kids with autism, and they had them engage in a role-playing game DM'd by one of the study authors for six weeks.
[00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:21.840] And then they interviewed them before, during, and after the process.
[00:29:21.840 --> 00:29:28.480] And again, this is sort of the qualitative aspect of the study to see how did they react to it, what they think about it.
[00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:49.440] And they found, again, not surprising, that the subjects felt that it helped them build confidence in social situations, that they gave them skills that they could apply to their daily lives, that it was a very comfortable setting in which they could explore aspects of their personality.
[00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:51.680] So, which again, not surprising.
[00:29:52.160 --> 00:30:00.000] The other aspect of the study is that it was partly exploring some common misconceptions about autism.
[00:30:00.600 --> 00:30:08.040] That a lot of people think that autistic people are asocial or they're not very socially motivated.
[00:30:08.040 --> 00:30:10.120] But that's actually not universally true.
[00:30:10.120 --> 00:30:13.320] It's actually not, I think, the most common manifestation.
[00:30:13.320 --> 00:30:17.080] In fact, they often are highly socially motivated.
[00:30:17.080 --> 00:30:25.000] It's just that social interactions can be exhausting for them, you know, because they don't have the casual sort of comfort or skill with it.
[00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:26.920] Yeah, and sometimes perplexing as well.
[00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:27.320] Yeah, yeah.
[00:30:28.440 --> 00:30:32.440] It's a very highly cognitively demanding sort of prospect for them.
[00:30:32.440 --> 00:30:44.200] This was a way to say, all right, you know, you're in a social situation, which they love, and the emotional and cognitive load is dramatically decreased because anything you do is fine.
[00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:52.840] The stakes are a lot lower, and you get to have intense social interaction in a safe environment, right?
[00:30:52.840 --> 00:30:53.640] And they loved it.
[00:30:54.200 --> 00:30:56.760] They thought it was a very, very positive experience.
[00:30:56.760 --> 00:31:15.800] So that, to me, like represented the full arc of role-playing and DD in particular, from the stigma, fearful way it was looked at in the 70s and 80s to now where it's kind of accepted as just another activity that some people do.
[00:31:15.800 --> 00:31:20.600] Sure, maybe it's a little nerdy, but it's wonderful and it's celebrated in a lot of things.
[00:31:20.600 --> 00:31:24.040] Like if you guys all, I know we all watched Stranger Things, which is great.
[00:31:24.600 --> 00:31:25.640] Yeah, right, yeah, they did.
[00:31:25.640 --> 00:31:32.760] Yeah, the fact that the kids all played DD was looked upon as a very informative in a very positive light in that storytelling.
[00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:41.480] You know, like giving the kids confidence and skills that they were able to utilize, you know, when facing a very challenging situation.
[00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:46.240] And also, I think it emphasized the bonding aspects of it.
[00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:55.840] You know, it's a very intensely social interaction, which is very helpful for people who may have difficulty making social connections.
[00:31:56.240 --> 00:31:58.560] It's helpful for any children, honestly.
[00:31:58.720 --> 00:32:02.480] Absolutely, but especially so, you know, for those who might be more, a little bit more challenged.
[00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:11.360] And so I know at least three of us on the show have pretty extensive experience with role-playing, both tabletopping and live-action role-playing, LARPing.
[00:32:11.600 --> 00:32:17.520] You know, Jay and Evan, how does this fit with your experiences personally?
[00:32:17.520 --> 00:32:23.440] My role-playing from all the way back has always been pretty intimate with my friends.
[00:32:23.680 --> 00:32:25.040] It's a consistent thing.
[00:32:25.040 --> 00:32:30.240] Like we would do it either every week or as we get older, you know, it turns into more like once every few weeks or a month.
[00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:32.240] You get together with the same people.
[00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:38.320] The adult version has been a key factor in my socializing with my friends.
[00:32:38.320 --> 00:32:41.120] And I got to tell you, it's an amazing thing to do.
[00:32:41.120 --> 00:32:49.040] Like, you know, you go to a movie and you sit down, you watch the movie and you might whisper to each other and then you go back and you might go to a diner afterwards and talk about it or whatever.
[00:32:49.040 --> 00:33:05.040] But being in a room with your friends for like 10 hours, you know, at your house and you go through this complete spectrum of emotion over and over and over again, where things get really intense and they get interesting and then there's laughing infused throughout the whole thing.
[00:33:05.040 --> 00:33:24.960] And of all the social interactions that I have had in my life, for some reason, tabletop, you know, role-playing games is just maximally enjoyable and restorative to me in a way that nothing really comes close to, other than maybe doing like, if I were to play volleyball with a bunch of people, I feel like that would be a similar thing.
[00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:28.400] I just get, it's an invigorating thing, though, to experience for you.
[00:33:28.480 --> 00:33:31.000] Do you think you've learned any skills through doing it?
[00:33:31.240 --> 00:33:44.840] I mean, my social skills, I think, are dramatically better because of all the odd scenarios that I've had to live through in these games and, like, you know, having to deal with all these different types of situations and, you know, troubleshooting, problem-solving, essentially, a lot of it.
[00:33:44.840 --> 00:33:48.840] Yeah, a lot of teamwork, a lot of tactical, you know, BRB or puzzle-solving problems.
[00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:51.160] Like, I'll give you an example for me and Steve, right?
[00:33:51.160 --> 00:33:59.480] When Steve and I created the LARP for this, it was like a thing that was happening down where George lives, right?
[00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:01.000] In Bethlehem, yeah.
[00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:01.720] Yeah, in Bethlehem.
[00:34:01.720 --> 00:34:03.480] I think we were at the Steel Stacks, was it?
[00:34:03.480 --> 00:34:04.520] I can't remember exactly where we were.
[00:34:04.680 --> 00:34:05.000] Ice House.
[00:34:05.080 --> 00:34:05.640] The Ice House, rather.
[00:34:05.720 --> 00:34:06.760] Ice House, right?
[00:34:07.080 --> 00:34:14.040] And we wrote this whole module for them and we watched them in person interact with each other and troubleshoot.
[00:34:14.040 --> 00:34:17.560] And I remember saying to Steve, this is nothing to us.
[00:34:17.560 --> 00:34:29.160] Like these problems that they're dealing with and the way that they're mounting those problems and just watching like a hundred people do this, like with all of our experience, we know how to hit the ground running.
[00:34:29.400 --> 00:34:34.200] My troubleshooting skills, I think, are way better than they ever would have been.
[00:34:34.920 --> 00:34:46.680] Also, thinking out of the box and coming up with solutions and all that stuff, like, you know, when you're playing these games, it, man, it's so little about all the stupid things that people think about it.
[00:34:46.680 --> 00:34:58.040] Like, if you're playing with people, you know, adults and they're, you know, you're playing an adult game here, I'm faced with really serious things that I have to troubleshoot and think about, and also emotional things that you have to work through.
[00:34:58.760 --> 00:35:06.440] If I made a list of the people I'm still friends with from my childhood, if I go back, my oldest, dearest friends, we all have one thing in common.
[00:35:06.440 --> 00:35:07.880] And it is Dungeons and Dragons.
[00:35:07.880 --> 00:35:10.200] It is role-playing, without a doubt.
[00:35:10.200 --> 00:35:16.560] Also, at a time in my life when I was moving around the country, you know, it started off in the northeast, but for various reasons, my family moved.
[00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:18.000] We lived in Texas for a while.
[00:35:14.680 --> 00:35:19.120] We lived in Colorado for a while.
[00:35:19.200 --> 00:35:23.600] This was all when I was 10, 11, 12 years old.
[00:35:23.600 --> 00:35:31.520] That was my way of getting in and making quick friends in the new environments that I found myself in.
[00:35:31.520 --> 00:35:38.080] And I was able to just kind of immediately come to the table and be part of that game community.
[00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:45.440] So there's no doubt about it that it served me very well in those early formative years.
[00:35:46.320 --> 00:35:47.680] And like I said, continues to be.
[00:35:47.680 --> 00:35:52.640] I'm still, of all the people I'm still good friends with for the longest amount of time in my life, they're all role players.
[00:35:52.720 --> 00:35:54.960] Well, Evan, we met you and Perry through role-playing.
[00:35:54.960 --> 00:35:55.440] Yeah.
[00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:56.000] That's right.
[00:35:56.000 --> 00:35:56.400] Yep.
[00:35:56.400 --> 00:35:56.880] Yep.
[00:35:56.880 --> 00:36:04.960] And you know, Ev, when we were LARPing together and we didn't really know each other, but like you, you know, in-game, like we meet you and you're like, we were like, hey, we really like this guy.
[00:36:04.960 --> 00:36:07.360] You know, Steve and I are talking and we're like, this guy's cool.
[00:36:07.360 --> 00:36:10.400] Like we want to, let's see if he wants to like hang out with us.
[00:36:10.400 --> 00:36:12.400] It's like real, you know, almost like real life.
[00:36:12.400 --> 00:36:16.800] You know, we're like inviting you in the game as our characters to join us.
[00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:22.000] And Evan, the weird thing is, is our relationship started more in-game than in real life.
[00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:26.400] And I remember getting to actually know who you are months later.
[00:36:26.800 --> 00:36:27.680] You know, hey, Evan.
[00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:29.600] You met my character first, then you met me.
[00:36:29.600 --> 00:36:31.040] Yeah, like, Evan, come out to dinner with us.
[00:36:31.280 --> 00:36:33.120] And we start talking and get to know each other.
[00:36:33.120 --> 00:36:37.120] And then think about all the different role-playing games we've played over the years, Evan, all the different scenarios.
[00:36:37.120 --> 00:36:43.280] Like, you just can't, you can't make this type of stuff happen in your life without playing some type of role-playing game.
[00:36:43.280 --> 00:36:48.160] Like that, this is the way that you can experience all these scenarios, potential scenarios.
[00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:49.680] It's not just that.
[00:36:49.680 --> 00:36:54.080] So, like, the one thing that I think is unique to the role-playing games.
[00:36:54.080 --> 00:36:58.080] That's what I was going to ask, Steve, because I feel like a lot of this is gaming.
[00:36:58.080 --> 00:36:58.560] Yes.
[00:36:58.560 --> 00:37:02.920] But what's different about role-playing games is there's one thing that's different from all other games.
[00:37:03.320 --> 00:37:05.560] It requires, I think, a lot more empathy.
[00:37:05.560 --> 00:37:10.920] It does, but it's also that you are, it's the one game you're playing where you're not yourself.
[00:37:10.920 --> 00:37:13.480] That's why it requires more empathy.
[00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:17.400] And I think that's the psychological skill that we're tapping into.
[00:37:17.400 --> 00:37:19.160] Yes, frustration tolerance.
[00:37:19.160 --> 00:37:24.440] Yes, ability to sit with your emotions and not explode, which all gaming helps.
[00:37:24.440 --> 00:37:26.200] Puzzling helps with that.
[00:37:26.200 --> 00:37:30.520] But empathy is a skill that you have to practice.
[00:37:30.520 --> 00:37:32.280] For example, I played many characters.
[00:37:32.280 --> 00:37:33.000] You guys know me.
[00:37:33.720 --> 00:37:36.360] I'm pretty reserved, generally speaking.
[00:37:36.360 --> 00:37:40.920] But I play characters who are the exact opposite of my personality.
[00:37:40.920 --> 00:37:46.200] So I have had to tap into myself, some aspect of my personality.
[00:37:46.360 --> 00:37:49.880] Jay and I, one of our favorite characters that we played were mobsters.
[00:37:50.360 --> 00:37:51.880] They were very medieval mobsters.
[00:37:51.960 --> 00:38:00.280] They were very charismatic mobsters whose whole point was to suck players into the dark underbelly of the game, right?
[00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:07.240] And so we came off as very appealing and very compelling, but also a little menacing, you know?
[00:38:07.240 --> 00:38:10.280] And then, so I have, how do you balance those two things?
[00:38:10.280 --> 00:38:15.800] But I remember it was so much fun playing those characters because you basically have to turn off your superego.
[00:38:15.800 --> 00:38:21.000] You have to be completely unfiltered and say whatever comes to your mind.
[00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:31.560] And it was surprising to me how socially creative and smooth and witty you could be when you unfilter yourself.
[00:38:31.560 --> 00:38:35.640] But it was also exhausting because it wasn't my personality.
[00:38:35.640 --> 00:38:36.280] You know what I mean?
[00:38:36.280 --> 00:38:39.160] I don't know how you felt, Jay, but like I could do it for two, three hours.
[00:38:39.160 --> 00:38:40.840] I'm like, all right, I have to tap out.
[00:38:40.920 --> 00:38:41.560] It took effort.
[00:38:41.560 --> 00:38:48.400] It took, yeah, like because there's, but I wonder, like, there are some people who are, this is the way they are 24-7.
[00:38:48.400 --> 00:38:49.840] You know, this is just this year.
[00:38:50.720 --> 00:38:52.720] But that's also, how old were you at the time, Steve?
[00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:54.000] 30s.
[00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:54.400] Right.
[00:38:54.400 --> 00:38:56.960] So let's think about, you know, back to the study, right?
[00:38:57.120 --> 00:39:03.360] And back to thinking about the psychological benefits of children or younger people doing role-playing.
[00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:13.680] Think about yourself in that role as an eight-year-old whose identity is not fully developed yet and who's trying on different identities and personalities.
[00:39:14.240 --> 00:39:16.320] It's a little young for the game.
[00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:17.360] Okay, fine.
[00:39:17.360 --> 00:39:17.840] 12.
[00:39:17.840 --> 00:39:19.920] Well, 10 is the.
[00:39:20.240 --> 00:39:24.160] They do say the age start is 10, but 12 is probably more accurate.
[00:39:24.160 --> 00:39:25.120] All right, let's say 12.
[00:39:25.280 --> 00:39:26.240] That's besides the point.
[00:39:26.240 --> 00:39:34.640] Like 12, and you're still figuring out who you are, and you're still figuring out what your personality is, and whether you feel shy or brave in these situations.
[00:39:34.640 --> 00:39:36.160] And what is bravery to you?
[00:39:36.160 --> 00:39:38.960] And how do you want to be vulnerable with your friends?
[00:39:38.960 --> 00:39:49.760] And all of these different components that really become factors of how you define yourself, of your self-efficacy, of your self-esteem.
[00:39:49.760 --> 00:39:59.840] What an incredible opportunity in a low-stakes way to practice being all of the things that you are trying to find out about yourself.
[00:40:00.160 --> 00:40:01.680] Yeah, I agree.
[00:40:01.680 --> 00:40:08.240] And also, I credit my role-playing experience with my ease of public speaking.
[00:40:08.240 --> 00:40:20.400] And I remember how I was at the very beginning, say my LARPing experience, just because of the type of character I was mainly playing, there were lots of situations when I had to talk to a couple of hundred people at a time.
[00:40:20.400 --> 00:40:29.520] Like, I had to not only talk to the town, like, again, like to 100, 200 people, I had to marshal the town, right?
[00:40:29.720 --> 00:40:30.520] You had to be persuasive.
[00:40:30.680 --> 00:40:33.400] I had to persuade them to do something.
[00:40:33.400 --> 00:40:37.960] And it was difficult, and I felt very nervous and awkward initially.
[00:40:37.960 --> 00:40:41.720] By the end of my LARPing experience, it was nothing.
[00:40:41.720 --> 00:40:53.800] Nothing for me to just grab the attention of everybody and whatever, make whatever happen, whether I was trying to intimidate them or trying to inspire them or whatever.
[00:40:53.800 --> 00:41:00.920] I was able to, again, practice a lot of these things and developed real social skills doing that.
[00:41:00.920 --> 00:41:04.200] And of course, we also knew a lot of people through the game.
[00:41:04.200 --> 00:41:10.520] And Evan and I then ran the game for five years where we were not playing, we were running the game.
[00:41:10.520 --> 00:41:15.400] And we knew every player intimately in that game and what their strengths and their weaknesses were.
[00:41:15.400 --> 00:41:16.040] And we saw them.
[00:41:16.040 --> 00:41:27.640] We saw a lot of people enter that game as a completely awkward and nerdy kind of person and blossom into really compelling characters.
[00:41:28.360 --> 00:41:28.920] Fun to watch.
[00:41:29.160 --> 00:41:30.120] Fun to watch.
[00:41:30.120 --> 00:41:30.840] Amazing.
[00:41:30.840 --> 00:41:32.760] Geez, I wish you guys would invite me.
[00:41:33.400 --> 00:41:33.880] We did.
[00:41:34.520 --> 00:41:35.720] We know that we did.
[00:41:35.720 --> 00:41:37.080] I got better shit to do.
[00:41:37.080 --> 00:41:37.560] Yeah.
[00:41:37.880 --> 00:41:39.240] I'm with you, Bob.
[00:41:39.240 --> 00:41:39.720] Whatever.
[00:41:39.720 --> 00:41:46.840] Yeah, I'm not saying it's for everyone, but listen, I think that it does not deserve any kind of negative stigma attached to it.
[00:41:46.840 --> 00:41:50.520] Nobody should be shamed for engaging in role-playing.
[00:41:50.520 --> 00:42:02.760] It is an extremely creative endeavor, massively creative, and a ton of fun, among the most fun, probably the funnest game I've ever played, certainly.
[00:42:02.760 --> 00:42:11.400] And also, again, has all these other aspects to it that you can build a lot of skills, which in a way is one of the main purposes of games, right?
[00:42:11.400 --> 00:42:14.520] It's yes, it's fun, it's a distraction, but it's also about building skills.
[00:42:14.640 --> 00:42:17.520] And that's what many games were invented for.
[00:42:17.520 --> 00:42:22.960] And this is, I mean, this is about a game where you get to build life skills and social skills.
[00:42:22.960 --> 00:42:28.800] I think it's perfect, again, for people who may find those situations difficult, you know.
[00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:40.480] It's also, you know, some psychologists argue that it's like a fundamental human need that, like, that sort of there are these three pillars of mental health, which are relationships, right?
[00:42:40.480 --> 00:42:57.760] Whether it's love or friendships or all the different ways that we engage with others, work, which that could be academic work, it could be, you know, physical labor, but all of the different ways that we produce and we engage and we make and we create and play.
[00:42:58.080 --> 00:43:12.000] That, like, you know, every single animal, every mammal, every version of an evolved or an evolving organism that at least is somewhat, quote, I don't know, complex, plays.
[00:43:12.640 --> 00:43:14.880] Even well into old age.
[00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:16.880] My dog always plays.
[00:43:16.880 --> 00:43:17.200] Yeah.
[00:43:17.200 --> 00:43:20.240] And it's important for us to remember that we play.
[00:43:20.240 --> 00:43:22.960] But lots of people stop playing in life.
[00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:23.680] They just stop.
[00:43:23.680 --> 00:43:25.440] They think that it's childlike.
[00:43:25.440 --> 00:43:26.080] It's not.
[00:43:26.080 --> 00:43:26.480] Oh, God.
[00:43:26.640 --> 00:43:26.880] It's not.
[00:43:26.880 --> 00:43:30.000] It's necessary for your mental health.
[00:43:30.240 --> 00:43:44.800] Don't keep yourself from enjoying something like this very intensely and something that could be a very positive social experience because you have, you're inhibited by those kind of ideas that it's nerdy or it's childish or whatever.
[00:43:44.800 --> 00:43:45.760] To me, that's silly.
[00:43:45.760 --> 00:43:48.960] Just let loose, have fun, build skills.
[00:43:48.960 --> 00:43:49.600] It's great.
[00:43:49.600 --> 00:43:55.920] Can I give advice, though, to people out there that might be intrigued by what we're saying and are interested in looking for a group?
[00:43:55.920 --> 00:43:59.280] You know, first of all, I love gaming with people that I know.
[00:43:59.280 --> 00:44:06.600] And on occasion, when I game with people that I don't know, sometimes someone kind of fits and sometimes they don't, right?
[00:44:06.920 --> 00:44:12.440] You will experience very juvenile type gaming with the wrong group of people.
[00:44:12.440 --> 00:44:22.440] So the quality control there is the people you choose to do this with, you know, like because I've played games with lots of different people under different circumstances.
[00:44:22.440 --> 00:44:27.560] And like, there's a lot of times where I'm like, oh man, this is like, this is literally like playing a game when I was 14.
[00:44:27.560 --> 00:44:28.520] You know what I mean?
[00:44:29.080 --> 00:44:30.680] You don't want to get stuck in that.
[00:44:30.680 --> 00:44:33.000] So just, you know, pick the group.
[00:44:33.160 --> 00:44:38.760] Well, that's like playing football with people who are way better than you or way worse than you, right?
[00:44:38.760 --> 00:44:42.520] You got to find your level, like any other thing else, because there is a lot of skills involved.
[00:44:42.520 --> 00:44:43.400] Absolutely.
[00:44:43.800 --> 00:44:51.800] You also want to find, you know, there's a component of it, Jay, that I think you're tapping into, which reflects on things like group therapy, too.
[00:44:51.800 --> 00:44:55.800] Like, you can't just throw a bunch of random people together and expect group therapy to work.
[00:44:56.360 --> 00:45:02.360] You have to make sure that there is a trust and a connection and a comfort.
[00:45:02.360 --> 00:45:05.960] And there's a lot of, you know, these factors that are kind of hard to put your finger on.
[00:45:05.960 --> 00:45:09.480] But I relate to you because I feel the same way about poker.
[00:45:09.480 --> 00:45:13.160] I can go play in a poker room with a bunch of people I don't know and it's fine.
[00:45:13.160 --> 00:45:18.200] But when I play in a home game with like friends, there is magic at the poker table.
[00:45:18.600 --> 00:45:19.880] It's so much more fun.
[00:45:19.880 --> 00:45:21.080] Oh, you totally get it, Karen.
[00:45:21.080 --> 00:45:21.560] That's it.
[00:45:21.560 --> 00:45:22.440] That's the parallel.
[00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:28.680] And if you're parents who have kids, this is a perfect parent-child interaction.
[00:45:28.840 --> 00:45:29.400] It's so fun.
[00:45:29.880 --> 00:45:30.120] It is.
[00:45:30.120 --> 00:45:30.920] Yeah, we play with our kids.
[00:45:32.120 --> 00:45:33.800] I'm running a game campaign now.
[00:45:33.800 --> 00:45:37.720] Really, the purpose of it is so I could spend more time with my daughters, basically.
[00:45:37.720 --> 00:45:39.720] And Evan is playing with his daughter.
[00:45:39.720 --> 00:45:43.640] And like the adults in the game know, like, we're supporting roles, right?
[00:45:43.640 --> 00:45:48.400] Like, we're letting them sort of take the lead and really problem solve and do all the.
[00:45:48.560 --> 00:45:52.320] And even though, you know, we have way more experience than they do, but it's great.
[00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:52.960] It's a ton of fun.
[00:45:53.120 --> 00:45:54.240] Oh, it's so much fun watching.
[00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:57.920] So much fun watching them sort of grow into their own role-playing skills.
[00:45:57.920 --> 00:46:00.320] Because it reminds us of our time at that age.
[00:46:00.320 --> 00:46:00.720] Yep.
[00:46:00.720 --> 00:46:01.520] All right.
[00:46:01.520 --> 00:46:03.840] Bob, completely different topic.
[00:46:03.840 --> 00:46:05.280] Thanks for indulging us, by the way.
[00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:08.480] This is the DD's 50th anniversary, so I felt I'm entitled.
[00:46:09.440 --> 00:46:10.000] Yeah, I think so.
[00:46:10.560 --> 00:46:10.960] Very interesting.
[00:46:11.200 --> 00:46:11.760] Little review.
[00:46:11.760 --> 00:46:12.080] Yeah.
[00:46:12.400 --> 00:46:16.800] You probably think it's too soon to join AARP, right?
[00:46:16.800 --> 00:46:19.040] Well, let's take a minute to talk about it.
[00:46:19.040 --> 00:46:21.760] Where do you see yourself in 15 years?
[00:46:21.760 --> 00:46:26.240] More specifically, your career, your health, your social life.
[00:46:26.240 --> 00:46:28.880] What are you doing now to help you get there?
[00:46:28.880 --> 00:46:34.320] There are tons of ways for you to start preparing today for your future with AARP.
[00:46:34.320 --> 00:46:40.480] That dream job you've dreamt about, sign up for AARP reskilling courses to help make it a reality.
[00:46:40.480 --> 00:46:45.280] How about that active lifestyle you've only spoken about from the couch?
[00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:50.320] AARP has health tips and wellness tools to keep you moving for years to come.
[00:46:50.320 --> 00:46:54.240] But none of these experiences are without making friends along the way.
[00:46:54.240 --> 00:46:58.240] Connect with your community through AARP volunteer events.
[00:46:58.240 --> 00:47:02.640] So it's safe to say it's never too soon to join AARP.
[00:47:02.640 --> 00:47:06.800] They're here to help your money, health, and happiness live as long as you do.
[00:47:06.800 --> 00:47:11.040] That's why the younger you are, the more you need AARP.
[00:47:11.040 --> 00:47:15.280] Learn more at AARP.org/slash wise friend.
[00:47:15.280 --> 00:47:17.680] This is where projects come to life.
[00:47:17.680 --> 00:47:27.920] Our showrooms are designed to inspire with the latest products from top brands, curated in an inviting, hands-on environment, and a team of industry experts to support your project.
[00:47:27.920 --> 00:47:33.400] We'll be there to make sure everything goes as planned, from product selection to delivery coordination.
[00:47:33.400 --> 00:47:38.520] At Ferguson Bath Kitchen and Lighting Gallery, your project is our priority.
[00:47:38.520 --> 00:47:43.560] Discover great brands like Kohler at your local Ferguson showroom.
[00:47:45.480 --> 00:47:49.240] So I initially chose FDU because it was affordable and it worked with my budget.
[00:47:49.240 --> 00:47:58.760] I had no idea I was going to be pursuing a career in pharmacy, but it was over the years and meeting different professors that really enlightened me and showed me that I have what it takes to become a pharmacist.
[00:47:59.080 --> 00:48:00.120] I honestly believe that.
[00:48:00.120 --> 00:48:01.800] It did change my life.
[00:48:02.440 --> 00:48:08.520] Hi, I'm Chris Gethard, and I'm very excited to tell you about Beautiful Anonymous, a podcast where I talk to random people on the phone.
[00:48:08.520 --> 00:48:11.160] I tweet out a phone number, thousands of people try to call.
[00:48:11.160 --> 00:48:13.160] I talk to one of them, they stay anonymous.
[00:48:13.160 --> 00:48:14.040] I can't hang up.
[00:48:14.040 --> 00:48:15.080] That's all the rules.
[00:48:15.080 --> 00:48:16.600] I never know what's going to happen.
[00:48:16.600 --> 00:48:17.960] We get serious ones.
[00:48:17.960 --> 00:48:20.040] I've talked with meth dealers on their way to prison.
[00:48:20.040 --> 00:48:22.200] I've talked to people who survived mass shootings.
[00:48:22.200 --> 00:48:23.240] Crazy, funny ones.
[00:48:23.240 --> 00:48:27.160] I talked to a guy with a goose laugh, somebody who dresses up as a pirate on the weekends.
[00:48:27.160 --> 00:48:28.520] I never know what's going to happen.
[00:48:28.520 --> 00:48:29.720] It's a great show.
[00:48:29.720 --> 00:48:32.280] Subscribe today, Beautiful Anonymous.
[00:48:32.280 --> 00:48:35.240] Bob, tell us about the search for gravitons.
[00:48:35.240 --> 00:48:36.840] Oh, yeah, this was fun.
[00:48:36.840 --> 00:48:39.320] A lot more fun than DD searching this.
[00:48:41.160 --> 00:48:50.040] A new study has proposed a way to potentially detect in the near future what has long been thought undetectable, the infamous graviton.
[00:48:50.600 --> 00:48:51.640] Undetectable.
[00:48:53.000 --> 00:48:59.800] Perhaps we shall see the theoretical particle that, if it exists, would be the carrier of that mystifying force we call gravity.
[00:48:59.800 --> 00:49:02.840] Physics professor Igor, or is it Igor?
[00:49:03.160 --> 00:49:16.560] Mukovsky led a team of first-year graduate students and postdoc researcher Srinath Manikandan in this study, published in Nature Communications called Detecting Single Gravitons with Quantum Sensing.
[00:49:16.560 --> 00:49:19.120] Okay, first things first, what is a graviton?
[00:49:19.440 --> 00:49:22.480] I think we've mentioned it on the show, but not in any detail.
[00:49:22.480 --> 00:49:29.040] Gravitons are theoretical, first off, theoretical, no evidence, solid evidence for them at all, really.
[00:49:29.200 --> 00:49:34.400] Gravitons are theoretical particles that would transmit or mediate the force of gravity, right?
[00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:39.360] This would be like photons, which transmit the electromagnetic force, which we call light.
[00:49:39.360 --> 00:49:43.600] They'd also be similar to gluons, which mediate the strong force, etc.
[00:49:43.760 --> 00:49:50.320] So the theory says that gravitons would probably be like photons in that they would be massless and travel at the speed of light.
[00:49:50.320 --> 00:49:53.680] So they would in a sense be building blocks of gravity, right?
[00:49:53.680 --> 00:50:05.040] Gravitational waves, which we've covered many times, are often described as these space-time ripples, right, that are formed from colliding black holes or neutron stars, and which are detectable with LIGO.
[00:50:05.040 --> 00:50:05.920] Remember those?
[00:50:05.920 --> 00:50:12.640] So those gravitational waves, which we've talked about many times on the show, would be made up of many gravitons.
[00:50:12.640 --> 00:50:13.600] Okay, you got that?
[00:50:13.600 --> 00:50:22.480] So now you may be thinking, hey, isn't gravity really the curvature of space with no real need for a particle or a force that's transmitted?
[00:50:22.480 --> 00:50:29.360] And you would be right, bravo and brava to you, but you'd be right from a specific context only, really.
[00:50:29.360 --> 00:50:36.960] Einstein's general relativity describes a universe where mass and energy curve space-time, and that curve tells matter how to move.
[00:50:36.960 --> 00:50:39.600] And we say that movement is caused by gravity.
[00:50:39.600 --> 00:50:40.480] That's gravity.
[00:50:40.480 --> 00:50:45.920] Observation and experiments support this concept of space-time curvature over and over and over.
[00:50:45.920 --> 00:50:48.960] But general relativity, though, is a classical theory.
[00:50:48.960 --> 00:50:50.560] That's a huge distinction.
[00:50:50.560 --> 00:50:55.840] And therefore, because it's classical, it does not incorporate any principles from quantum theory.
[00:50:55.840 --> 00:51:07.960] So, as a classical theory, general relativity works fine for large-scale phenomena like orbits and black holes, but classical theories don't work well at very small scales or very high speeds.
[00:51:07.960 --> 00:51:11.000] Small scales are ruled by quantum mechanics.
[00:51:11.000 --> 00:51:18.200] So, one of the holy grails of physics is a version of gravity incorporating general relativity and quantum mechanics.
[00:51:18.200 --> 00:51:19.560] That's quantum gravity.
[00:51:19.560 --> 00:51:21.880] We've mentioned that multiple times on the show.
[00:51:21.880 --> 00:51:27.640] This would be a fusion of the two great theories of the 20th century: general relativity, quantum mechanics.
[00:51:27.640 --> 00:51:32.200] Multiple attempts at this theory predict gravitons, like string theory and supergravity.
[00:51:32.200 --> 00:51:33.880] They're like embedded right in the math.
[00:51:33.880 --> 00:51:35.720] There they are, they just pop out.
[00:51:35.720 --> 00:51:45.880] But creating a theory of quantum gravity has proved immensely difficult, though, because combining general relativity and quantum mechanics, it's like combining hieroglyphics with Klingon, right?
[00:51:45.880 --> 00:51:47.720] They just don't want to mesh together.
[00:51:47.720 --> 00:51:55.160] And I've often thought I would seriously consider asking a genie for the key to the theory of quantum gravity as one of my wishes.
[00:51:55.160 --> 00:51:58.120] But yeah, but only if I had more than three wishes, though.
[00:51:58.120 --> 00:52:01.080] If I got three, I got higher priorities.
[00:52:01.080 --> 00:52:01.720] Right, right.
[00:52:02.280 --> 00:52:03.000] Peanut butter thing.
[00:52:03.240 --> 00:52:03.800] Humankind.
[00:52:04.120 --> 00:52:04.840] zombies.
[00:52:05.480 --> 00:52:09.800] Now, it would be a big help if we could just actually detect a graviton.
[00:52:09.800 --> 00:52:11.160] That would be an immense help.
[00:52:11.480 --> 00:52:13.960] Or maybe even just infer its existence.
[00:52:13.960 --> 00:52:22.120] But every time physicists seriously ponder how to detect these gravitons, they conclude: nope, it seems like an impossible task.
[00:52:22.280 --> 00:52:28.600] Why do you think it's so difficult to detect a graviton if they even exist?
[00:52:28.680 --> 00:52:29.400] Very low energy.
[00:52:29.960 --> 00:52:30.760] Physicists are dumb?
[00:52:31.080 --> 00:52:34.840] No, it actually would take high, it would take high energy to actually detect gravity.
[00:52:35.160 --> 00:52:36.520] They are low energy, right?
[00:52:36.520 --> 00:52:44.480] Well, yeah, so what that kind of means is that, and it's one of the primary reasons I have here, is that gravity is as weak as Jay's pea soup.
[00:52:43.080 --> 00:52:46.560] Do you make pea soup, Jay?
[00:52:44.120 --> 00:52:47.360] It's ridiculous.
[00:52:47.520 --> 00:52:53.440] The interaction of gravity with matter is notoriously and ridiculously and stupidly weak.
[00:52:53.440 --> 00:52:54.400] Amazingly weak.
[00:52:54.400 --> 00:52:55.040] How weak?
[00:52:55.040 --> 00:52:56.000] How weak is it?
[00:52:56.000 --> 00:52:56.800] It's very weak.
[00:52:56.800 --> 00:53:01.920] Gravity is 100 undecillion times weaker than the strong force.
[00:53:01.920 --> 00:53:04.480] That's 10 to the 38 times weaker.
[00:53:04.480 --> 00:53:06.560] That's 100 trillion, trillion, trillion.
[00:53:07.120 --> 00:53:11.760] It's notoriously, amazingly weak, far weaker than any of the other forces.
[00:53:11.760 --> 00:53:14.240] Now, everybody, stand up and jump.
[00:53:14.240 --> 00:53:14.960] I'll wait.
[00:53:14.960 --> 00:53:15.520] Okay.
[00:53:15.520 --> 00:53:18.960] So think, how easy is it to jump off the ground, right?
[00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:22.720] I mean, you could easily jump, albeit briefly, but you can jump.
[00:53:22.720 --> 00:53:27.600] You could defy the entire gravitational force of the Earth underneath you.
[00:53:28.080 --> 00:53:30.960] It takes the Earth just to hold you onto itself.
[00:53:30.960 --> 00:53:38.560] All that means, all of that that I've just said means, is that detecting or isolating the interaction of a single graviton would be so difficult.
[00:53:38.560 --> 00:53:40.960] Many think it's just forever beyond our ability.
[00:53:40.960 --> 00:53:41.920] It's just not going to happen.
[00:53:41.920 --> 00:53:43.600] It's just so ridiculously weak.
[00:53:44.880 --> 00:53:46.720] It's weaker than the weak force, right?
[00:53:47.040 --> 00:53:47.440] Right.
[00:53:47.760 --> 00:53:48.800] I think it is, right?
[00:53:48.800 --> 00:53:50.000] But how much weaker?
[00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:51.920] You said how much weaker it is than the strong force.
[00:53:51.920 --> 00:53:53.040] Well, the strong force is strong.
[00:53:53.440 --> 00:53:55.120] How much weaker is it than the weak force?
[00:53:55.680 --> 00:53:56.240] I don't know.
[00:53:56.240 --> 00:53:57.120] I don't have that number.
[00:53:57.120 --> 00:53:59.920] Many, many, you know, thousands and thousands of times.
[00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:00.400] Oh, okay.
[00:54:01.120 --> 00:54:02.320] Yeah, it's far weaker.
[00:54:02.320 --> 00:54:06.560] I mean, the reason why gravity is important is because it's long acting.
[00:54:06.560 --> 00:54:07.520] It doesn't have a short range.
[00:54:07.520 --> 00:54:09.280] It has basically an infinite range.
[00:54:09.280 --> 00:54:16.560] And that's why the universe itself has arranged itself because of gravity, because it's such a long, long-range force.
[00:54:16.560 --> 00:54:22.320] Lead author Pakovsky said, many physicists thought about it over the years, but the answer was always the same.
[00:54:22.320 --> 00:54:25.280] It cannot be done in terms of detecting gravitons.
[00:54:25.280 --> 00:54:31.240] It was impossible to imagine quantum experiments that go beyond a few atoms, and they hardly interact with gravitons at all.
[00:54:29.840 --> 00:54:31.880] I mean, it's true.
Prompt 2: Key Takeaways
Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.
Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...".
Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive.
IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}
Prompt 3: Segments
Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.
For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion
IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.
Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
"segments": [
{
"segment_title": "Topic Discussion",
"timestamp": "01:15:30",
"key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
"segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
}
]
}
Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.
Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:
Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)
DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names
IMPORTANT:
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.
Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
"media_mentions": [
{
"title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
"category": "Book",
"author_artist": "N/A",
"context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
"context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
"timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
}
]
}
If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}
Prompt 5: Context Setup
You are an expert data extractor tasked with analyzing a podcast transcript.
I will provide you with part 2 of 3 from a podcast transcript.
I will then ask you to extract different types of information from this content in subsequent messages. Please confirm you have received and understood the transcript content.
Transcript section:
:30.960] It takes the Earth just to hold you onto itself.
[00:53:30.960 --> 00:53:38.560] All that means, all of that that I've just said means, is that detecting or isolating the interaction of a single graviton would be so difficult.
[00:53:38.560 --> 00:53:40.960] Many think it's just forever beyond our ability.
[00:53:40.960 --> 00:53:41.920] It's just not going to happen.
[00:53:41.920 --> 00:53:43.600] It's just so ridiculously weak.
[00:53:44.880 --> 00:53:46.720] It's weaker than the weak force, right?
[00:53:47.040 --> 00:53:47.440] Right.
[00:53:47.760 --> 00:53:48.800] I think it is, right?
[00:53:48.800 --> 00:53:50.000] But how much weaker?
[00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:51.920] You said how much weaker it is than the strong force.
[00:53:51.920 --> 00:53:53.040] Well, the strong force is strong.
[00:53:53.440 --> 00:53:55.120] How much weaker is it than the weak force?
[00:53:55.680 --> 00:53:56.240] I don't know.
[00:53:56.240 --> 00:53:57.120] I don't have that number.
[00:53:57.120 --> 00:53:59.920] Many, many, you know, thousands and thousands of times.
[00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:00.400] Oh, okay.
[00:54:01.120 --> 00:54:02.320] Yeah, it's far weaker.
[00:54:02.320 --> 00:54:06.560] I mean, the reason why gravity is important is because it's long acting.
[00:54:06.560 --> 00:54:07.520] It doesn't have a short range.
[00:54:07.520 --> 00:54:09.280] It has basically an infinite range.
[00:54:09.280 --> 00:54:16.560] And that's why the universe itself has arranged itself because of gravity, because it's such a long, long-range force.
[00:54:16.560 --> 00:54:22.320] Lead author Pakovsky said, many physicists thought about it over the years, but the answer was always the same.
[00:54:22.320 --> 00:54:25.280] It cannot be done in terms of detecting gravitons.
[00:54:25.280 --> 00:54:31.240] It was impossible to imagine quantum experiments that go beyond a few atoms, and they hardly interact with gravitons at all.
[00:54:29.840 --> 00:54:31.880] I mean, it's true.
[00:54:32.040 --> 00:54:37.480] When you get down to the scale of atoms, when you're doing a lot of theoretical work, you could basically ignore gravity.
[00:54:37.800 --> 00:54:39.960] It's just a non-entity at that scale.
[00:54:39.960 --> 00:54:43.720] Now, you may think, hey, we can detect gravitational waves.
[00:54:43.720 --> 00:54:53.240] Wouldn't it be fairly straightforward then to detect one of the gravitons that make up these gravitational waves that our LIGO detectors have been detecting for years now?
[00:54:53.240 --> 00:54:55.080] Such an amazing development.
[00:54:55.080 --> 00:54:57.800] The paper actually addresses this specifically.
[00:54:57.960 --> 00:55:10.040] The researchers explain that the famous physicist Freeman Deitson once looked into that specifically and he calculated that a typical gravitational wave that we detect would consist of, say, 10 to the 36 gravitons.
[00:55:10.040 --> 00:55:13.000] A lot of gravitons, a huge number.
[00:55:13.000 --> 00:55:22.840] But to detect one or two of those, that would mean that we'd have to increase the position resolution of LIGO to far below the Planck length.
[00:55:22.840 --> 00:55:25.320] Now, the Planck length is tiny.
[00:55:25.320 --> 00:55:26.920] Imagine a proton, right?
[00:55:26.920 --> 00:55:27.720] Really small.
[00:55:27.720 --> 00:55:30.280] Now, divide that by 100 quintillion.
[00:55:30.280 --> 00:55:31.720] That's a Planck length.
[00:55:31.720 --> 00:55:36.360] So, yeah, we're not going to improve LIGO to have that kind of spatial resolution.
[00:55:36.360 --> 00:55:39.720] And no wonder that these physicists have been so pessimistic.
[00:55:40.040 --> 00:55:41.720] And that's just one example.
[00:55:41.720 --> 00:55:46.120] There's so many reasons why this would be so ridiculously difficult.
[00:55:46.120 --> 00:55:52.600] But even given those hurdles, Provovsky still thought of a way to possibly get around them.
[00:55:52.840 --> 00:56:05.880] Scientists have relatively recently been able to observe quantum effects in large macroscopic objects, and Provovsky thought that he could leverage that progress that we've made and point to a way to eventually detect gravitons.
[00:56:05.880 --> 00:56:11.240] Now, the macroscopic object that I'm referring to here that's outlined in their paper is it's a type of detector.
[00:56:11.240 --> 00:56:12.760] It's called a resonator.
[00:56:12.760 --> 00:56:17.200] And this resonator can vibrate at very, very specific frequencies.
[00:56:17.200 --> 00:56:20.160] They would cool the resonator to near absolute zero.
[00:56:20.160 --> 00:56:25.120] And they do that, of course, to minimize noise and make it as sensitive as they possibly can.
[00:56:25.120 --> 00:56:32.720] So the idea is that when a gravitational wave passes by this resonator and the wave is detected by LIGO, right?
[00:56:32.720 --> 00:56:34.560] LIGO can detect these waves.
[00:56:34.560 --> 00:56:51.520] That same wave should have also had a few of its gravitons, maybe just a couple or even one, a few of those gravitons, a few of those 10 to the 36 gravitons, should hopefully have been absorbed and emitted by this resonator, causing it to vibrate in a very specific way.
[00:56:51.520 --> 00:56:57.120] And that vibration can be matched to the energy they would expect from a single graviton.
[00:56:57.120 --> 00:56:59.280] And that's the key to this new idea.
[00:56:59.520 --> 00:57:09.200] Graduate student and paper contributor Jermaine Tobar said: by observing these quantum jumps in the material, we can deduce that a graviton was absorbed.
[00:57:09.200 --> 00:57:12.240] We call it the gravitophononic effect.
[00:57:12.400 --> 00:57:18.000] Pukovsky said again: he said, our solution is similar to the photoelectric effect, which is a great analogy.
[00:57:18.320 --> 00:57:26.880] Our solution is similar to the photoelectric effect that led Einstein to the quantum theory of light, just with gravitational waves replacing electromagnetic waves.
[00:57:26.880 --> 00:57:32.960] The key is that the energy is exchanged between the material and the waves only in discrete steps.
[00:57:32.960 --> 00:57:35.600] Single gravitons are absorbed and emitted.
[00:57:35.600 --> 00:57:44.400] Now, that seems so encouraging to me, but remember, though, keep in mind, this sensing technology, which they call quantum sensing, does not exist yet.
[00:57:44.400 --> 00:57:52.320] Do not have this level of sophistication yet in our technology, but they are nonetheless confident that this before long we will have it.
[00:57:52.320 --> 00:57:59.040] Pukovsky said again: quantum jumps have been observed in materials recently, but not yet at the masses we need.
[00:57:59.280 --> 00:58:11.960] He continues: We know that quantum gravity is still unsolved, and it's too hard to test it in all its full glory, but we can now take the first steps, just as scientists did over 100 years ago with quanta of light.
[00:58:11.960 --> 00:58:14.760] So, okay, this is really fascinating.
[00:58:14.760 --> 00:58:21.080] I'm really going to look, really try to follow this and hope they make some interesting progress over the next few years or so.
[00:58:21.400 --> 00:58:24.440] So, what would confirming the quantum nature of gravity mean?
[00:58:24.440 --> 00:58:46.360] Well, obviously, it could be the advance that we need to show that quantum gravity, you know, which quantum gravity model of the many that we are developing, which is the most promising and which could is more likely to ultimately lead to a fully realized theory of quantum gravity, which would be awesome because I've been waiting literally for decades and I'm getting increasingly pissed off.
[00:58:46.360 --> 00:58:49.240] And finding a genie does not seem like it's going to happen either.
[00:58:49.240 --> 00:58:51.320] So, please make this happen, people.
[00:58:51.560 --> 00:58:56.680] I've been waiting for this quantum gravity for so long, and I want to see it before I die.
[00:58:56.680 --> 00:58:57.800] Okay, Bob, thanks.
[00:58:57.800 --> 00:58:58.680] I'm good.
[00:58:58.680 --> 00:59:02.680] All right, Erin, this is a really cool story about dinosaur footprints.
[00:59:02.680 --> 00:59:05.400] We love stories about dinosaur footprints.
[00:59:05.400 --> 00:59:06.200] Who doesn't?
[00:59:06.360 --> 00:59:08.040] Been loving those since I was a kid.
[00:59:08.040 --> 00:59:15.480] But here's a new study that's reporting about the discovery of matching dinosaur footprints on two different continents.
[00:59:15.480 --> 00:59:16.440] Oh my gosh.
[00:59:16.760 --> 00:59:36.760] The footprints are believed to be of early Cretaceous dinosaurs, and the footprints were found more than 3,700 miles, which is roughly 6,000 kilometers apart from the Borborima region in the northeast of Brazil and the Coam Basin in northern Cameroon.
[00:59:36.760 --> 00:59:43.720] And if you know your geography in your head, you're going to know South America and Africa.
[00:59:44.440 --> 00:59:53.120] Analysis of the tracks revealed that they are similar in terms of age and geological context and almost identical in their shape.
[00:59:53.120 --> 00:59:53.680] So cool.
[00:59:53.840 --> 00:59:55.760] So are both of those continents.
[00:59:56.080 --> 00:59:56.800] Absolutely.
[00:59:56.800 --> 00:59:57.120] Yes.
[00:59:58.320 --> 00:59:58.640] Right.
[00:59:58.640 --> 00:59:59.280] This isn't.
[00:59:59.600 --> 01:00:03.440] I don't think this is a surprising result by any stretch.
[01:00:03.440 --> 01:00:04.720] It doesn't rewrite anything.
[01:00:04.720 --> 01:00:15.040] It just, you know, further solidifies the idea that this was once all one landmass that broke apart many hundreds of millions, a couple hundred million years ago.
[01:00:15.040 --> 01:00:16.560] So, yeah, the dinosaurs, what?
[01:00:16.560 --> 01:00:22.720] They were three-toed theropods, but they believe also perhaps some sauropods and, oh, here's one.
[01:00:22.720 --> 01:00:27.840] Ornithiscians were among them as well, but mostly the theropods.
[01:00:28.000 --> 01:00:31.360] Ornithischians are a much higher group than theropods.
[01:00:31.360 --> 01:00:36.400] Mostly carnivous theropods and also sauropods or ornithiscians.
[01:00:36.400 --> 01:00:42.320] Well, it's just mixing up different levels because all dinosaurs are either Sauritians or Ornithiscians, right?
[01:00:42.320 --> 01:00:42.720] That's it.
[01:00:42.720 --> 01:00:45.040] Those are the two branching groups of dinosaurs.
[01:00:45.200 --> 01:00:46.400] Bird-hipped or lizard-hipped.
[01:00:46.560 --> 01:00:46.720] Yeah.
[01:00:46.880 --> 01:00:47.840] Gotcha.
[01:00:47.840 --> 01:00:55.120] And then the lizard-hipped, the theropods are in the Sauritians and like the Triceratops.
[01:00:55.280 --> 01:00:56.640] Therapods and sauropods.
[01:00:56.640 --> 01:00:56.960] Yeah.
[01:00:56.960 --> 01:01:00.080] And then the Triceratops, I believe, are in the Ornithischians.
[01:01:00.400 --> 01:01:03.840] It's kind of reversed because the birds evolved from the lizard-hip dinosaurs.
[01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:04.720] That's confusing.
[01:01:04.720 --> 01:01:05.200] Right.
[01:01:05.200 --> 01:01:06.560] But anyway, go ahead.
[01:01:07.040 --> 01:01:10.080] Yeah, it's just a little confusing because it's mixing up different levels.
[01:01:10.080 --> 01:01:10.800] Agreed.
[01:01:10.800 --> 01:01:25.120] This study was published by the New Mexico Museum of Natural History and Science, and it was in a tribute to the late paleontologist Martin Lockley, who spent much of his career studying dinosaur tracks and footprints.
[01:01:25.120 --> 01:01:29.600] All right, I'll read you the key points from the conclusion of the actual paper.
[01:01:29.600 --> 01:01:29.920] Here we go.
[01:01:30.600 --> 01:01:41.480] The study places dinosaur tracks in a context to elucidate an appropriate path of biogeographical exchange between what would soon, geologically, become separate continents.
[01:01:41.480 --> 01:01:48.040] Therefore, our conclusions have relevance for essentially for all terrestrial biota of the existing communities at the time.
[01:01:48.040 --> 01:01:52.920] However, the concept was developed with the data we have, dinosaur tracks.
[01:01:52.920 --> 01:02:01.400] The puzzle-like fit and obvious proximity of the Atlantic coast of Africa and South America compel the notion of biogeographic linkages through time.
[01:02:01.400 --> 01:02:09.240] That relationship is made even more plausible by the tectonics controlling the separation of the continents and the pre-existing geology.
[01:02:09.240 --> 01:02:19.960] The pre-existing tectonic framework controlled the formation and structure of the sedimentary basins formed during the process of continental rifting and ocean formation.
[01:02:19.960 --> 01:02:20.680] Yep.
[01:02:20.680 --> 01:02:27.560] So they found more than 260 dinosaur footprints in both Brazil and Cameroon between them.
[01:02:27.560 --> 01:02:36.200] The footprints show where the dinosaurs used to walk between basically South America and Africa millions of years ago, as it was all part of the same.
[01:02:36.200 --> 01:02:50.200] SMU paleontologist Louis Jacobs, who was part of the study, said this: Dinosaurs made the tracks 120 million years ago on a single supercontinent known as Gondwana, which broke off from the larger landmass of Pangea.
[01:02:50.200 --> 01:03:00.760] One of the youngest and narrowest geological connections between Africa and South America was the elbow of northeastern Brazil nestled against what is now the coast of Cameroon along the Gulf of Guinea.
[01:03:00.760 --> 01:03:08.200] The two continents were continuous along that narrow stretch, so that animals on either side of that connection could potentially move across it.
[01:03:08.200 --> 01:03:15.520] Before the continental connection between Africa and South and South America was severed, rivered flows and lakes formed in the basins.
[01:03:14.840 --> 01:03:18.240] Plants fed the herbivores and supported the food chain.
[01:03:18.480 --> 01:03:30.480] Muddied sediments left by the rivers and lakes contained dinosaur footprints, including those of meat eaters, documenting that these river valleys could provide specific avenues for life to travel across the continents 120 million years ago.
[01:03:30.480 --> 01:03:31.360] Cool.
[01:03:31.360 --> 01:03:38.720] So these dinosaur tracks in Cameroon, on the Cameroon side, they were first identified in the 1980s.
[01:03:38.720 --> 01:03:52.640] But Jacobs and the other researchers decided to go back and look at them again after Martin Lockley had died, because I believe those were part of his discoveries.
[01:03:52.640 --> 01:03:55.920] And they were using techniques now that weren't available at the time.
[01:03:55.920 --> 01:04:08.320] That's the beautiful thing about modern science is that, and when it comes to either archaeology or paleontology, you can use new, better methods now than what was originally studied 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago.
[01:04:08.320 --> 01:04:10.240] So big, big advantage there.
[01:04:10.240 --> 01:04:22.560] Jacobs also said, I had not thought about dinosaur tracks in Cameroon for decades, and then just going back to them and starting to look at them and asking what they're trying to tell us, it was such a surprise to see how much had been learned in those decades and how much the story improved.
[01:04:22.560 --> 01:04:26.960] That's part of the adventure, not just paleontology, but all science here.
[01:04:26.960 --> 01:04:27.680] Yeah, this is cool.
[01:04:27.680 --> 01:04:37.760] So, I mean, obviously, there's lots of other lines of evidence for Pangea, you know, like South America and Africa being connected and then splitting apart.
[01:04:37.760 --> 01:04:42.480] But as far as I'm aware, previously it's been geological and fossil evidence.
[01:04:42.480 --> 01:04:42.960] Right.
[01:04:42.960 --> 01:04:48.960] So, like, there's basically continuity on the western coast of Africa and the eastern coast of South America.
[01:04:48.960 --> 01:04:55.040] You could see in some places, like, yeah, this is like the same rocks and sometimes the same fossil strata.
[01:04:55.360 --> 01:05:00.520] This is the first I'm aware of of footprints adding to that lines of evidence.
[01:04:59.920 --> 01:05:06.680] So, like, basically, the same kind of dinosaurs at the same time were laying down tracks.
[01:05:07.000 --> 01:05:10.760] Again, western coast of Africa, eastern coast of South America.
[01:05:10.760 --> 01:05:11.560] How cool would it be?
[01:05:11.560 --> 01:05:18.680] I know this is impossible, but how cool would that be if they could identify a single dinosaur walked across from Africa to South America?
[01:05:18.680 --> 01:05:22.600] Like, they could see that the tracks end on one side and pick up on the other.
[01:05:22.600 --> 01:05:23.400] Right, exactly.
[01:05:23.400 --> 01:05:26.200] Like, it had a massive foot injury that would have come out in the prints.
[01:05:26.280 --> 01:05:27.240] Yeah, or something like that.
[01:05:27.640 --> 01:05:28.040] Right?
[01:05:28.840 --> 01:05:30.520] Some defining single feature.
[01:05:30.680 --> 01:05:32.520] The probability of that is basically zero.
[01:05:32.520 --> 01:05:35.720] But that's like, I mean, the fact that they found this is remarkable.
[01:05:35.960 --> 01:05:39.000] I know, like, look at the coasts eroded.
[01:05:39.400 --> 01:05:39.960] Erode.
[01:05:39.960 --> 01:05:41.000] I was like, evolve, no.
[01:05:41.080 --> 01:05:41.640] Evolve, no.
[01:05:41.720 --> 01:05:42.600] Do you ever do that?
[01:05:42.600 --> 01:05:43.000] Yeah.
[01:05:43.000 --> 01:05:43.400] Yes.
[01:05:43.800 --> 01:05:45.080] It gets worse as you get older.
[01:05:45.080 --> 01:05:45.320] Yeah.
[01:05:45.560 --> 01:05:45.720] Great.
[01:05:47.160 --> 01:05:52.360] But yes, the coasts erode so much that, yeah, there'd be a big hole in the middle of that.
[01:05:52.360 --> 01:05:53.880] They would have had to walk really far.
[01:05:53.880 --> 01:05:54.520] Really far.
[01:05:54.840 --> 01:05:55.800] Super far.
[01:05:55.800 --> 01:05:56.520] Super far.
[01:05:56.520 --> 01:06:15.560] I also tried to look up and see if there were any, if there's any like active communities or even TikTokers who sort of deny the whole continental drift, you know, facts that have been, you know, laid out over the past and built up over, oh, gosh, it's going on 120 years, if not more now, of knowing this.
[01:06:15.560 --> 01:06:22.680] And I couldn't really find any other than mostly people who are talking in a biblical context, you know, young earth creationists.
[01:06:22.680 --> 01:06:25.480] Those are the ones that kind of say, meh.
[01:06:25.880 --> 01:06:27.640] They bring up the firmament, yeah.
[01:06:27.640 --> 01:06:30.040] Yeah, they're not too loud.
[01:06:30.040 --> 01:06:32.440] They're not too annoying right now on TikTok yet.
[01:06:32.440 --> 01:06:33.960] So let's hope it stays that way.
[01:06:33.960 --> 01:06:35.000] Yeah, read the comments, though.
[01:06:35.000 --> 01:06:38.920] You read the comment to anything having to do with anything astronomical, whatever.
[01:06:38.920 --> 01:06:41.240] But that didn't happen on the firmament.
[01:06:41.240 --> 01:06:42.760] You know, come on.
[01:06:45.200 --> 01:06:46.800] You can just hear it.
[01:06:47.120 --> 01:06:47.600] All right.
[01:06:47.600 --> 01:06:48.640] Thanks, Evan.
[01:06:48.640 --> 01:06:53.360] Kara, tell us about this fight between schools and cell phones.
[01:06:53.360 --> 01:06:54.080] Uh-oh.
[01:06:54.080 --> 01:07:04.640] Yeah, so usually when I choose a news item for this show, I look at, you know, published literature, scientific studies that have been published.
[01:07:04.640 --> 01:07:11.280] It's rare that I focus on reporting, just straight reporting, but I think that this is such an important topic.
[01:07:11.280 --> 01:07:14.640] And I don't know, I just really want to open it up to all of you.
[01:07:14.640 --> 01:07:15.600] You all have kids.
[01:07:15.600 --> 01:07:21.760] I do not have kids, but I have worked in a therapeutic capacity with kids for a long time.
[01:07:21.760 --> 01:07:30.560] Most of your kids are grown now, but Jay, yours are right at this age, or they're about to be.
[01:07:30.560 --> 01:07:34.880] The AP recently published an article called Schools Are Competing with Cell Phones.
[01:07:34.880 --> 01:07:36.960] Here's How They Think They Could Win.
[01:07:36.960 --> 01:07:38.960] It was published just a couple of days ago.
[01:07:38.960 --> 01:07:58.800] And so before we even dive into like the numerous examples that they wrote about in their reporting of teachers, parents, and students themselves being like incredibly frustrated by the classroom environment, I was hoping that maybe y'all could paint a little bit of a picture of the differences.
[01:07:58.800 --> 01:08:01.040] We are different generations as it is.
[01:08:01.040 --> 01:08:02.800] I'm a millennial.
[01:08:04.000 --> 01:08:05.520] What are you guys considered?
[01:08:05.520 --> 01:08:05.760] X.
[01:08:05.920 --> 01:08:07.040] We're right.
[01:08:07.040 --> 01:08:07.840] I'm X.
[01:08:07.840 --> 01:08:10.000] Bob and I are boomers, but we're right on the edge.
[01:08:10.160 --> 01:08:10.720] You're on the cuss.
[01:08:11.280 --> 01:08:13.280] It depends how you cut off, but otherwise.
[01:08:13.360 --> 01:08:14.480] We'll call you elder Xers.
[01:08:15.200 --> 01:08:16.000] We're elder Xers.
[01:08:16.800 --> 01:08:19.480] I'm an elder millennial because I'm like, I'm like three years.
[01:08:19.440 --> 01:08:20.520] Yeah, Bob.
[01:08:21.280 --> 01:08:23.200] Call Bob anything but boomer.
[01:08:23.200 --> 01:08:32.920] And then they've got the Gen Z's who came after, and I will be referencing a study on Gen Z's, the Walton family Foundation, Voices of Gen Z study.
[01:08:32.920 --> 01:08:35.080] And then after that, I don't even know what the hell they're called.
[01:08:35.080 --> 01:08:36.760] Like, what are your kids, Jay?
[01:08:29.920 --> 01:08:37.160] Alpha.
[01:08:37.320 --> 01:08:38.040] Are they alphas?
[01:08:38.040 --> 01:08:39.240] They're Gen Alpha, right?
[01:08:39.400 --> 01:08:40.360] I honestly don't know.
[01:08:40.360 --> 01:08:43.160] I don't know what generation it's called.
[01:08:43.160 --> 01:08:45.400] Like, the rest of y'all's kids are Gen Z, right?
[01:08:45.880 --> 01:08:46.360] Yeah.
[01:08:46.360 --> 01:08:48.360] Or some, are any of them millennials?
[01:08:48.360 --> 01:08:49.800] What was the millennial again?
[01:08:49.800 --> 01:08:55.320] Yeah, 80, like 80 to like 95, maybe 89.
[01:08:55.560 --> 01:08:57.320] No, then they're Gen Zers.
[01:08:57.400 --> 01:08:58.680] They're Gen Zers.
[01:08:58.680 --> 01:08:59.960] And alpha would be next.
[01:08:59.960 --> 01:09:00.520] Yeah.
[01:09:00.520 --> 01:09:04.440] So one of the alpha words these days is Riz.
[01:09:04.440 --> 01:09:05.240] You ever heard that?
[01:09:05.560 --> 01:09:06.840] Short for charisma.
[01:09:06.840 --> 01:09:07.000] Yeah.
[01:09:07.240 --> 01:09:07.960] Give it eight toy.
[01:09:08.040 --> 01:09:08.200] Right.
[01:09:08.440 --> 01:09:09.320] So I say that.
[01:09:09.400 --> 01:09:10.040] Exactly.
[01:09:10.040 --> 01:09:10.840] Exactly.
[01:09:11.080 --> 01:09:15.000] I say that to Rachel, who's 21, and she groans in pain.
[01:09:15.240 --> 01:09:15.880] Everybody ever.
[01:09:16.120 --> 01:09:18.360] Evan, you are so brat.
[01:09:20.840 --> 01:09:21.240] Oh, no.
[01:09:21.240 --> 01:09:23.240] This is going to be a little embarrassing for us.
[01:09:23.240 --> 01:09:23.640] Okay.
[01:09:23.880 --> 01:09:24.680] I love it.
[01:09:24.680 --> 01:09:26.040] We are so not cool.
[01:09:26.040 --> 01:09:34.600] So when I was young, I did get a cell phone when I was a teenager, but I was of the era because I was born in 83 where we had pagers.
[01:09:34.600 --> 01:09:37.800] Like we all had these smart beep $1.99 pagers.
[01:09:37.800 --> 01:09:43.080] And so if our parents needed us, they would send us a page and then we would find a phone and call them back.
[01:09:43.080 --> 01:09:50.280] I would say cell phones became much bigger, like as I was finishing high school and definitely into college.
[01:09:50.280 --> 01:09:53.960] But late middle school, early high school, pagers were the thing.
[01:09:53.960 --> 01:09:56.040] You guys didn't have anything like that.
[01:09:56.040 --> 01:09:57.000] Not during school.
[01:09:57.480 --> 01:09:58.360] Not during my school.
[01:09:58.360 --> 01:09:58.840] No.
[01:09:58.840 --> 01:09:59.800] And what about your kiddos?
[01:09:59.800 --> 01:10:01.480] What about the Gen Zers?
[01:10:01.480 --> 01:10:02.600] We'll start with them.
[01:10:02.840 --> 01:10:06.520] Yeah, so our daughters got phones at 10.
[01:10:06.760 --> 01:10:07.960] I think is when we gave them phones.
[01:10:08.120 --> 01:10:09.560] That's about right for Rachel.
[01:10:09.560 --> 01:10:11.080] It was 10 or 11.
[01:10:11.080 --> 01:10:15.200] And when they were in school, were there any rules about cell phones and cell phone usage?
[01:10:14.920 --> 01:10:15.920] What were those rules?
[01:10:16.240 --> 01:10:23.440] Throughout high school, especially when they were in middle school, they had to put their phone in their locker.
[01:10:23.440 --> 01:10:28.000] They could not have it on their person in classroom during class.
[01:10:28.000 --> 01:10:31.600] So there was sort of a, I would assume, an honor system situation.
[01:10:31.600 --> 01:10:32.720] Leave it in your locker.
[01:10:32.720 --> 01:10:35.680] Obviously, if we see it on your person, we know you're breaking the rules.
[01:10:35.680 --> 01:10:38.960] If you see it, it gets taken away from you and you get it at the end of the day.
[01:10:38.960 --> 01:10:40.800] No searches or anything like that.
[01:10:40.800 --> 01:10:41.440] No.
[01:10:41.440 --> 01:10:41.920] Okay.
[01:10:42.320 --> 01:10:43.920] Same for you, Ev and Bob.
[01:10:43.920 --> 01:10:46.640] Those seem to be the similar.
[01:10:46.640 --> 01:10:47.200] Yes.
[01:10:47.200 --> 01:10:50.240] And then, Jay, your kids are young.
[01:10:50.240 --> 01:10:53.840] Any insights into the rules at their schools yet?
[01:10:53.840 --> 01:10:55.840] So my son Dylan's 11.
[01:10:56.080 --> 01:10:58.640] So he's formally starting middle school.
[01:10:58.640 --> 01:11:04.880] And, you know, there has been absolutely no talk of cell phones at all previous to this year.
[01:11:05.440 --> 01:11:08.960] So, as far as I know, most of the kids don't have phones.
[01:11:08.960 --> 01:11:10.000] It's not a thing yet.
[01:11:10.000 --> 01:11:17.920] The teachers this year during orientation were like, we just straight up do not allow the kids access to their phones while school's in session.
[01:11:17.920 --> 01:11:18.400] Good.
[01:11:18.400 --> 01:11:24.480] If they need to call the parent, we'll let them go to the office and then they can use their cell phone to call the parent if they have to.
[01:11:24.560 --> 01:11:25.680] They can't check cell phones.
[01:11:25.680 --> 01:11:26.880] They can't text or whatever.
[01:11:26.880 --> 01:11:29.360] One of my son's friends has a phone.
[01:11:29.520 --> 01:11:32.480] And, you know, my kids talk about getting phones all the time.
[01:11:32.480 --> 01:11:37.360] And my wife and I are like, it's probably going to be not too far away from when you start driving.
[01:11:37.360 --> 01:11:37.600] Right.
[01:11:37.680 --> 01:11:39.280] That's about when I got my phone.
[01:11:39.280 --> 01:11:41.360] It was about when I was driving.
[01:11:41.360 --> 01:11:45.520] And it was like one of those Nokias that you could play snake on.
[01:11:46.240 --> 01:11:46.800] Didn't do much.
[01:11:46.800 --> 01:11:48.320] Couldn't text, that's for sure.
[01:11:48.320 --> 01:11:52.480] So, you wouldn't even spend a lot of time on your phone because it was for calling.
[01:11:52.480 --> 01:11:54.240] Like, that's what we actually use them for.
[01:11:54.240 --> 01:11:54.800] Boring.
[01:11:55.120 --> 01:11:56.240] Boring.
[01:11:56.240 --> 01:11:58.960] Today, kids' phones are on social media.
[01:11:58.960 --> 01:12:00.000] They're on the internet, right?
[01:12:00.200 --> 01:12:02.120] Like, they can do anything and everything on their phones.
[01:12:02.120 --> 01:12:03.720] They can watch television.
[01:12:03.720 --> 01:12:10.440] Educators kind of across the country are complaining that students just aren't engaged at school.
[01:12:10.440 --> 01:12:20.680] Not only are there kind of spikes in mental health issues, especially around COVID, they're struggling with difficult attention, shortened attention spans.
[01:12:20.680 --> 01:12:23.160] Attendance is not great.
[01:12:23.160 --> 01:12:24.760] Academic performance is changing.
[01:12:24.760 --> 01:12:34.520] And I think, you know, I'd be curious to just go see what a classroom looks like now versus the classrooms that we were in.
[01:12:34.520 --> 01:12:45.880] Because the feedback that I'm reading about in a lot of these articles and also that I'm hearing about from parents when I'm working with kids is that the kids are just straight up disengaged at school.
[01:12:45.880 --> 01:12:53.400] That there's not nearly the connection and the attention that teachers were used to.
[01:12:53.400 --> 01:12:58.760] And that the way that they used to write their lesson plans is not, it's not working.
[01:12:58.760 --> 01:13:03.400] And so we're starting to see, as you guys mentioned, more and more cell phone bans.
[01:13:03.720 --> 01:13:07.480] But a lot of teachers and administrators are saying that they're not enough.
[01:13:07.480 --> 01:13:29.320] They think that obviously alternatives to cell phones, like methods for keeping kids more engaged, like having more outdoor time, spending more time in interactive classroom settings, as opposed to just the kind of didactic, you know, teacher at the front, students all facing the teacher structure isn't really working, or would be working if we did it more.
[01:13:29.320 --> 01:13:38.280] There's also been, have any of your kiddos talked about like the cell phone pouches and the bins, kind of like the ones they do in court?
[01:13:38.280 --> 01:13:39.880] That's apparently a thing.
[01:13:40.200 --> 01:13:47.920] Yeah, where there are these pouches that they have to lock their phones in, and then the teacher or the principal has the magnetic key that unlocks it.
[01:13:44.600 --> 01:13:53.840] Because the problem is that if you say leave your phone in your locker, they don't do it.
[01:13:53.840 --> 01:13:57.440] They keep it on their body and then they text under the table.
[01:13:58.320 --> 01:14:00.240] And so kids still have their phones on them.
[01:14:01.520 --> 01:14:02.960] Yeah, and these phones.
[01:14:02.960 --> 01:14:05.200] I mean, think about us at home.
[01:14:05.200 --> 01:14:06.720] Think about adults.
[01:14:06.720 --> 01:14:07.680] We are not in school.
[01:14:07.680 --> 01:14:08.720] Think about us at work.
[01:14:08.720 --> 01:14:12.240] Think about all the times that our phones are competing for our attention.
[01:14:12.720 --> 01:14:13.840] That's why I leave mine on silent.
[01:14:14.240 --> 01:14:14.400] Right.
[01:14:14.800 --> 01:14:15.280] Can't.
[01:14:15.520 --> 01:14:16.880] It would be so distracting.
[01:14:16.880 --> 01:14:17.920] So distracting.
[01:14:17.920 --> 01:14:20.240] I just embrace the distraction.
[01:14:20.880 --> 01:14:24.720] Put yourself in the shoes of a child whose frontal lobe is not fully developed.
[01:14:25.040 --> 01:14:25.520] Serious.
[01:14:26.160 --> 01:14:35.120] Of a child who is struggling to try and fit in, who is struggling because they have so many pressures on them and they have this little box.
[01:14:35.120 --> 01:14:38.160] And this little box offers them distraction.
[01:14:38.160 --> 01:14:39.840] It offers them an escape.
[01:14:39.840 --> 01:14:41.920] It offers them instant gratification.
[01:14:41.920 --> 01:14:43.600] It offers them comfort.
[01:14:43.600 --> 01:14:45.280] It offers them connection.
[01:14:45.280 --> 01:14:50.720] It offers them respite from all the stressors that they're experiencing at school.
[01:14:50.720 --> 01:14:55.120] It's become, I don't even like to use the word addiction.
[01:14:55.440 --> 01:14:59.760] It's something beyond that because it's almost universal.
[01:14:59.760 --> 01:15:01.360] It's hard to call it an addiction.
[01:15:01.360 --> 01:15:03.120] It's the culture.
[01:15:03.120 --> 01:15:11.840] And so, yes, locking up even smartwatches, headphones, other electronics, and engaging in different things.
[01:15:11.840 --> 01:15:23.920] Like there's an initiative in Washington, I think, they're calling Engage IRL, which is like an initiative to try and give students something to look forward to after school.
[01:15:23.920 --> 01:15:33.800] Because even if students are keeping their cell phones out of the classroom, the second class is over, their faces are down, they're walking through the halls glued to their phone.
[01:15:34.120 --> 01:15:40.920] The second school is out, they're going straight to their phones, they're not going to dance class, they're not going to football practice.
[01:15:40.920 --> 01:15:45.480] Some still are, but a lot of kids are struggling with that motivation.
[01:15:45.480 --> 01:15:49.800] And that brings me to that study that I mentioned: the Walton Family Foundation.
[01:15:49.800 --> 01:15:52.120] This is an initiative through Gallup.
[01:15:52.120 --> 01:16:00.520] So Gallup puts on this poll and they asked Gen Zers, so I want to give you the parameters of the kids in this.
[01:16:00.680 --> 01:16:04.760] Sample of 2,271 Gen Z respondents.
[01:16:04.760 --> 01:16:13.720] So these were 12 to 18-year-old kiddos, and then also 18 to 26-year-olds after that.
[01:16:13.720 --> 01:16:15.880] So they were able to kind of compare.
[01:16:15.880 --> 01:16:22.440] When they divided students between two groups, very unhappy, somewhat unhappy, or neither happy nor unhappy.
[01:16:22.440 --> 01:16:27.560] So that's kind of the neutral to unhappy group, versus the very happy or somewhat happy.
[01:16:27.560 --> 01:16:30.440] So these are students who responded in this way.
[01:16:30.440 --> 01:16:36.520] 60% of the happy students said that they feel motivated to go to school.
[01:16:36.520 --> 01:16:40.440] Guess what percent of the unhappy students said they are motivated to go to school?
[01:16:40.440 --> 01:16:40.840] 20.
[01:16:41.000 --> 01:16:41.560] 31.
[01:16:41.560 --> 01:16:41.880] 31.
[01:16:42.200 --> 01:16:42.760] Pretty low.
[01:16:42.760 --> 01:16:43.560] 31.
[01:16:43.560 --> 01:16:51.480] And it's really sad when you dig deeper into some of the questions, like I feel like I do something interesting every day, or I feel motivated to go.
[01:16:51.480 --> 01:16:54.840] I feel like when I'm there, I'm doing something important.
[01:16:55.160 --> 01:17:03.880] You know, kids that are in just across the board, kids that are enrolled in high school or middle school only, 52% feel like they're doing something interesting every day.
[01:17:03.880 --> 01:17:08.840] 51% feel like the things that they do at school are important.
[01:17:09.160 --> 01:17:14.200] Only 48% across the board, that's the average of the statistic I just read you.
[01:17:14.200 --> 01:17:17.360] 48% feel motivated to go to school.
[01:17:14.920 --> 01:17:28.960] And, you know, a lot of teachers and a lot of administrators are starting to support the idea that cell phones have become this like massive sticking point.
[01:17:29.280 --> 01:17:31.840] And so, what do we do about it, right?
[01:17:31.840 --> 01:17:44.480] Like, recently, I think it was just this week, the governor here in California, Gavin Newsom, he started to make a big push to ask school districts to restrict their cell phone use.
[01:17:44.480 --> 01:17:51.680] Like, that this would be coming from the government, not just be, you know, these individual school mandates.
[01:17:51.680 --> 01:17:58.640] We're seeing that more and more states are pushing for legislation to ban cell phone use.
[01:17:58.640 --> 01:18:04.000] And then, here's an interesting angle that the AP reported on that I didn't even think about.
[01:18:04.000 --> 01:18:10.880] You know, I mentioned getting outside, I mentioned not using the phones in school or just not even having access to the phones at school.
[01:18:10.880 --> 01:18:18.560] But here's another angle: stop texting your children throughout the day to check in on them.
[01:18:18.560 --> 01:18:32.320] Apparently, more and more kids are reporting that their parents send them check-in texts throughout the day, and that's distracting them, but it's also pulling them out of the school environment and back into the home setting throughout the day.
[01:18:32.320 --> 01:18:48.320] So, here's a quote from a teacher at Westerville North High School in Columbus, Ohio: Students are so tied to their families, there's this anxiety of not being able to contact them rather than appreciating the freedom of being alone for eight hours or with your friends.
[01:18:48.320 --> 01:18:50.800] Isn't that heartbreaking to hear?
[01:18:51.120 --> 01:18:55.560] It's like just such a different environment than the environment that we grew up in.
[01:18:55.560 --> 01:19:03.320] We're like, our parents trusted that we were okay because we were at school and we were happy to be free.
[01:19:03.880 --> 01:19:08.520] And we were truly free because we weren't constantly looking at our phones.
[01:19:08.520 --> 01:19:11.560] We weren't constantly engaged in social media and texting.
[01:19:11.560 --> 01:19:27.080] You know, I remember working with a family where the daughter had like pretty severe ADHD and we were trying to come up with token economies and different ways that we could reduce her cell phone usage at school because it was really negatively impacting her grades and her engagement at school.
[01:19:27.080 --> 01:19:34.920] And I remember talking to mom and mom was so concerned and she was like, but how can I tell her otherwise when I can't do it myself?
[01:19:35.240 --> 01:19:38.040] I can't leave my phone in the other room.
[01:19:38.040 --> 01:19:40.760] She sees me on my phone all day long.
[01:19:41.080 --> 01:19:43.800] It's become like a generational problem.
[01:19:43.800 --> 01:19:51.960] And I think we forget or we struggle to put ourselves in the shoes of our kids and think about how hard that would be if we had that same issue.
[01:19:52.200 --> 01:19:52.680] So I don't know.
[01:19:52.680 --> 01:19:53.800] It's something to think about, right?
[01:19:54.440 --> 01:19:58.360] I don't want to call it an unsolvable problem, but it's a problem that's not, it's not solved right now.
[01:19:58.600 --> 01:19:59.240] There's trade-offs.
[01:19:59.240 --> 01:20:03.640] It's like that political saying, there are no solutions, there are only trade-offs, right?
[01:20:03.640 --> 01:20:06.280] So we just have to decide what the trade-offs are going to be.
[01:20:06.280 --> 01:20:08.920] I have to say, you talk about parents texting their kids.
[01:20:08.920 --> 01:20:10.600] There have been a few occasions.
[01:20:10.600 --> 01:20:12.680] We didn't do this on a regular basis.
[01:20:12.680 --> 01:20:14.200] Every now and then something comes up.
[01:20:14.200 --> 01:20:22.520] We're like, it would really be logistically helpful if I can contact my daughter at school right now to let her know we have to pick you up to go to the doctor's office or whatever.
[01:20:22.520 --> 01:20:23.880] There's something going on.
[01:20:23.880 --> 01:20:26.360] And it is very convenient and somewhat annoying.
[01:20:26.360 --> 01:20:28.920] It was like, oh, she doesn't have her phone on her because they took her from her.
[01:20:28.920 --> 01:20:31.000] So we have no way of getting in touch with her.
[01:20:31.000 --> 01:20:35.800] And it just makes your day harder or whatever, because just logistically, it would be very convenient.
[01:20:35.800 --> 01:20:36.840] So, I get that, but you're right.
[01:20:37.240 --> 01:20:38.200] Talk about the trade-off, right?
[01:20:39.480 --> 01:20:43.320] What would your mom have done if she needed to pick you up to go to the doctor?
[01:20:43.320 --> 01:20:49.120] Yeah, but see, that's unfair because we did not grow up in a two-working parent family.
[01:20:44.760 --> 01:20:50.640] We had a full-time mother.
[01:20:51.520 --> 01:20:52.400] Well, you're right, that's not fair.
[01:20:52.400 --> 01:20:52.880] Okay, yeah.
[01:20:54.320 --> 01:20:58.560] Parents are at work, and like we have to juggle this problem, you know, of who's going to do what.
[01:20:58.560 --> 01:21:03.280] And anyway, no, but I guess I was trying to lead to an answer.
[01:21:03.520 --> 01:21:03.920] Yeah, go ahead.
[01:21:04.800 --> 01:21:12.560] If I were to ask myself, you know, what would my mom, who is a single-working mom, do if she needed to pick me up from school early, she would call the front office.
[01:21:12.560 --> 01:21:12.960] Yeah.
[01:21:13.200 --> 01:21:17.120] She would call the front office and say, hey, I need to pick my kid up early for school.
[01:21:17.120 --> 01:21:18.320] Can somebody inform her?
[01:21:18.320 --> 01:21:20.320] Yeah, obviously, we did whatever we had to do, right?
[01:21:20.320 --> 01:21:20.960] There were other options.
[01:21:21.120 --> 01:21:21.440] Exactly.
[01:21:22.000 --> 01:21:27.520] I forget the exact scenarios, but again, it just were situations where it absolutely would have been very convenient to be able to contact her.
[01:21:27.760 --> 01:21:32.800] Sure, but is that one, you know, convenience twice a year worth the terrible trade-off?
[01:21:32.800 --> 01:21:34.800] No, it's just annoying when it happens, but I hear you.
[01:21:35.440 --> 01:21:38.640] And it's also, like, you asked us what we model for our kids.
[01:21:38.640 --> 01:21:43.840] Like, when we're having dinner at a restaurant or something together, or at home, you know, whatever, it's no cell phones, right?
[01:21:43.840 --> 01:21:45.360] Everyone puts their cell phones down.
[01:21:45.360 --> 01:21:46.720] We all want to check our phones.
[01:21:46.720 --> 01:21:47.520] You know what I mean?
[01:21:47.520 --> 01:21:51.600] But if we do it, then our kids will immediately do it and they're lost in their phone.
[01:21:51.600 --> 01:21:56.480] So we have to just like keep each other honest and say, yeah, no cell phones at dinner.
[01:21:56.480 --> 01:21:57.280] This is family time.
[01:21:57.280 --> 01:21:58.640] We talk to each other.
[01:21:58.640 --> 01:22:00.000] So you have to put limits.
[01:22:00.000 --> 01:22:00.880] And that's what you like.
[01:22:01.040 --> 01:22:09.360] Like the pediatric recommendations are not so much to limit screen time, but to maximize non-screen time.
[01:22:09.360 --> 01:22:10.080] 100%.
[01:22:10.080 --> 01:22:11.200] Yeah, which is a little bit different.
[01:22:11.200 --> 01:22:12.720] You know, it's like, let's have a look at the phone.
[01:22:12.880 --> 01:22:13.520] It's a different framing.
[01:22:13.520 --> 01:22:14.320] Yeah, it's a different framing.
[01:22:14.720 --> 01:22:16.000] It's the same thing at school, right?
[01:22:16.000 --> 01:22:19.200] The issue is not that the phones themselves are bad for the kids.
[01:22:19.200 --> 01:22:22.560] The issue is that the phones are preventing the kids from learning.
[01:22:22.560 --> 01:22:25.680] They're preventing the kids from paying attention during the day.
[01:22:25.680 --> 01:22:27.760] And that's an important point to make.
[01:22:27.760 --> 01:22:47.400] And I think also to your point, Steve, like for everybody listening to this right now and really sitting with it and chewing on it put yourselves really try to exercise empathy and put yourselves in the shoes of your of your child and then ask yourself when i get angry at them for their relationship with their phone, am I being fair?
[01:22:47.400 --> 01:22:56.360] Am I modeling terrible behavior and expecting them to somehow have more capability to inhibit themselves than I do?
[01:22:56.360 --> 01:22:58.200] Because that's unfair.
[01:22:58.440 --> 01:23:02.280] We need to be modeling this kind of good behavior, but it starts with us.
[01:23:02.920 --> 01:23:08.120] I got to tell you, I got to tell you, my daughter with her phone is a mutant.
[01:23:08.120 --> 01:23:13.080] She, I could text her and it could be a couple of days.
[01:23:13.080 --> 01:23:23.960] She just likes, she makes a concerted effort to not make that phone an addiction or something that she needs to obsessively check.
[01:23:23.960 --> 01:23:27.560] I don't know how she does it, but put her in the Department of Education.
[01:23:27.560 --> 01:23:30.280] I'm proud of her, and it's like, that's great.
[01:23:30.280 --> 01:23:33.000] And that's something I could never do.
[01:23:33.320 --> 01:23:33.960] Yeah.
[01:23:33.960 --> 01:23:34.360] Yeah.
[01:23:34.360 --> 01:23:41.000] And no, you know, 12-year-old is going to be able to do that, not without a lot of support and a lot of boundaries.
[01:23:41.000 --> 01:23:42.840] And, you know, they start with you.
[01:23:42.840 --> 01:23:53.000] And I think that, you know, that also leads to, and we've talked about this before on the show, we cannot expect school to completely save a child from their home environment.
[01:23:53.720 --> 01:23:58.120] Like, yes, it is a massive respite for a lot of kids who are going through stuff.
[01:23:58.120 --> 01:24:00.520] And like, thank goodness for that.
[01:24:00.520 --> 01:24:16.720] But if a child is wildly shifting between specific boundaries at school and specific boundaries at home, and that inconsistency is there day to day to day, that's also not conducive to kind of establishing good behaviors.
[01:24:14.840 --> 01:24:21.760] So, you know, if you expect school to do it, try and maintain the same boundary at home.
[01:24:22.880 --> 01:24:23.520] Yeah.
[01:24:23.520 --> 01:24:24.000] All right.
[01:24:24.000 --> 01:24:25.280] Thanks, Kara.
[01:24:25.280 --> 01:24:30.720] I'm no tech genius, but I knew if I wanted my business to crush it, I needed a website now.
[01:24:30.720 --> 01:24:32.720] Thankfully, Bluehost made it easy.
[01:24:32.720 --> 01:24:37.440] I customized, optimized, and monetized everything exactly how I wanted with AI.
[01:24:37.440 --> 01:24:39.200] In minutes, my site was up.
[01:24:39.200 --> 01:24:40.240] I couldn't believe it.
[01:24:40.240 --> 01:24:43.280] The search engine tools even helped me get more site visitors.
[01:24:43.280 --> 01:24:46.720] Whatever your passion project is, you can set it up with Bluehost.
[01:24:46.720 --> 01:24:49.760] With their 30-day money-back guarantee, what do you got to lose?
[01:24:49.760 --> 01:24:51.440] Head to bluehost.com.
[01:24:51.440 --> 01:24:55.600] That's B-L-U-E-H-O-S-T.com to start now.
[01:24:55.920 --> 01:25:00.320] You probably think it's too soon to join AARP, right?
[01:25:00.320 --> 01:25:02.640] Well, let's take a minute to talk about it.
[01:25:02.640 --> 01:25:05.360] Where do you see yourself in 15 years?
[01:25:05.360 --> 01:25:09.760] More specifically, your career, your health, your social life.
[01:25:09.760 --> 01:25:12.480] What are you doing now to help you get there?
[01:25:12.480 --> 01:25:17.840] There are tons of ways for you to start preparing today for your future with AARP.
[01:25:17.840 --> 01:25:19.920] That dream job you've dreamt about?
[01:25:19.920 --> 01:25:24.000] Sign up for AARP reskilling courses to help make it a reality.
[01:25:24.000 --> 01:25:28.800] How about that active lifestyle you've only spoken about from the couch?
[01:25:28.800 --> 01:25:33.840] AARP has health tips and wellness tools to keep you moving for years to come.
[01:25:33.840 --> 01:25:37.840] But none of these experiences are without making friends along the way.
[01:25:37.840 --> 01:25:41.760] Connect with your community through AARP volunteer events.
[01:25:41.760 --> 01:25:46.160] So it's safe to say it's never too soon to join AARP.
[01:25:46.160 --> 01:25:50.400] They're here to help your money, health, and happiness live as long as you do.
[01:25:50.400 --> 01:25:54.560] That's why the younger you are, the more you need AARP.
[01:25:54.560 --> 01:25:58.800] Learn more at AARP.org/slash wise friend.
[01:25:58.800 --> 01:26:00.920] This is where projects come to life.
[01:26:01.240 --> 01:26:11.480] Our showrooms are designed to inspire with the latest products from top brands curated in an inviting, hands-on environment, and a team of industry experts to support your project.
[01:26:11.480 --> 01:26:16.920] We'll be there to make sure everything goes as planned: from product selection to delivery coordination.
[01:26:16.920 --> 01:26:22.120] At Ferguson Bath Kitchen and Lighting Gallery, your project is our priority.
[01:26:22.120 --> 01:26:27.160] Discover great brands like Kohler at your local Ferguson showroom.
[01:26:29.080 --> 01:26:32.840] So I initially chose FDU because it was affordable and it worked with my budget.
[01:26:32.840 --> 01:26:42.440] I had no idea I was going to be pursuing a career in pharmacy, but it was over the years and meeting different professors that really enlightened me and showed me that I have what it takes to become a pharmacist.
[01:26:42.600 --> 01:26:43.640] I honestly believe that.
[01:26:43.800 --> 01:26:45.640] It did change my life.
[01:26:45.960 --> 01:26:47.960] Jay, it's who's that noisy time?
[01:26:47.960 --> 01:26:50.360] Last week I played this noisy.
[01:27:04.680 --> 01:27:06.840] Has a theremin quality to it.
[01:27:06.840 --> 01:27:08.040] Kara, what do you hear?
[01:27:08.200 --> 01:27:13.000] It's like a, I don't know, some sort of animal playing kazoo.
[01:27:13.320 --> 01:27:13.880] No?
[01:27:13.880 --> 01:27:14.760] All right, that's interesting.
[01:27:14.760 --> 01:27:15.800] Bob, you got anything?
[01:27:15.800 --> 01:27:16.600] Nobody guessed that.
[01:27:16.600 --> 01:27:17.240] That's surprising.
[01:27:17.320 --> 01:27:17.640] Nothing.
[01:27:17.640 --> 01:27:18.440] I got nothing.
[01:27:18.440 --> 01:27:18.920] All right.
[01:27:18.920 --> 01:27:22.600] Well, a listener named Benjamin DeVolt Devault.
[01:27:22.600 --> 01:27:25.160] Benjamin, I have a deficit here.
[01:27:25.800 --> 01:27:26.760] He says, Hi, Jay.
[01:27:26.760 --> 01:27:27.400] Ben here.
[01:27:27.400 --> 01:27:29.480] The French guy in Kyoto.
[01:27:29.480 --> 01:27:30.360] Is it Kyoto?
[01:27:30.360 --> 01:27:30.840] Kyoto.
[01:27:31.160 --> 01:27:31.720] Kyoto.
[01:27:31.720 --> 01:27:32.200] I got it.
[01:27:32.200 --> 01:27:32.520] See that?
[01:27:32.520 --> 01:27:32.920] Not bad.
[01:27:33.720 --> 01:27:35.560] He said, well, this is the theremin.
[01:27:35.560 --> 01:27:36.360] No doubt about that.
[01:27:36.360 --> 01:27:41.400] I just hope you don't need more info like how the sounds were made by moving hands really fast.
[01:27:41.400 --> 01:27:42.200] Yeah, Jay.
[01:27:42.200 --> 01:27:46.160] And then he said, I assume a lot of people will guess correctly and Kara will be happy.
[01:27:46.160 --> 01:27:47.200] You are incorrect.
[01:27:44.840 --> 01:27:51.120] I knew that I was going to get a theremin as a guess, but it's fine.
[01:27:51.280 --> 01:27:54.000] You know, that is a good default for that type of sound.
[01:27:54.000 --> 01:27:56.640] I have another listener here named Shane Hillier.
[01:27:56.640 --> 01:28:02.320] Shane says, Jason, this is for sure the world's premier squeaky balloon player.
[01:28:02.640 --> 01:28:04.160] You guys know how to play squeaky balloon?
[01:28:04.640 --> 01:28:05.040] Yeah.
[01:28:05.360 --> 01:28:05.760] Okay.
[01:28:05.760 --> 01:28:11.040] Yeah, he describes it, but you can make lots of different sounds with that, but that is not it either.
[01:28:11.040 --> 01:28:16.240] Another listener named Adam Hill wrote in and said, Hello, Jay, this week's who's that noisy sounds like a theremin.
[01:28:16.240 --> 01:28:23.600] Specifically, it sounds like the Curiosity rover on Mars is going a little stir-crazy and started singing to itself in odd bleeps and bloops.
[01:28:24.320 --> 01:28:38.000] I added that one in because Adam said that the Mars, you know, the Curiosity rover on Mars is going crazy and making funny noises, and that would be hysterical if they cued sounds like this when things started to go badly and just started to kind of make funny noises and flash.
[01:28:38.000 --> 01:28:38.480] I don't know.
[01:28:38.480 --> 01:28:39.760] I just think that's funny.
[01:28:39.760 --> 01:28:41.200] Another listener named Brian A.
[01:28:41.360 --> 01:28:46.400] wrote in and said, This is someone playing a flute made from a plastic drinking slot, straw.
[01:28:46.400 --> 01:28:53.680] You flatten one end, cut it to a triangular point, add a few holes to change the notes, then proceed to annoy the hell out of everyone.
[01:28:53.680 --> 01:28:54.800] I have never done that.
[01:28:54.880 --> 01:28:57.440] Sounds like fun, but that is not correct.
[01:28:57.440 --> 01:28:59.440] All right, I have a listener from last week.
[01:28:59.520 --> 01:29:05.120] Listener's name is Griffin Adams, and Griffin guesses it's a glissotar.
[01:29:05.120 --> 01:29:06.400] It's a glissotar, guys.
[01:29:06.400 --> 01:29:07.600] You know what that is?
[01:29:07.600 --> 01:29:08.240] Nope.
[01:29:08.240 --> 01:29:08.560] No.
[01:29:08.880 --> 01:29:10.800] It's like something from Star Trek.
[01:29:10.800 --> 01:29:22.400] So a Glycotar is the first member of the Glissonic instrument family designed to give wind players unprecedented flexibility with glissando.
[01:29:22.400 --> 01:29:24.080] Do you guys know what glissando is?
[01:29:25.040 --> 01:29:26.000] That's like a.
[01:29:27.280 --> 01:29:29.040] Yeah, it's a music notation.
[01:29:29.040 --> 01:29:31.400] But I don't think you can do it with a voice, can you?
[01:29:31.400 --> 01:29:35.080] It's called a continuous slide upward or downward between two notes.
[01:29:35.080 --> 01:29:36.040] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:29:29.840 --> 01:29:37.080] So, like, sliding the notes.
[01:29:37.480 --> 01:29:40.680] I was thinking Sforzando, which is like loud and then quiet and all loud.
[01:29:40.840 --> 01:29:49.800] So, this instrument has a magnetic strap instead of keys, and the glissitar gives its user this vast range of new playing possibilities.
[01:29:49.800 --> 01:29:53.800] And as you heard, and I'll play the audio again, there's lots of different sounds coming out of this thing.
[01:29:53.800 --> 01:30:08.280] So, it's based on the soprano saxophone, is made of amaranth, which is a naturally purple wood, and it has a range of 2.5 octaves, two octave keys, and can be used with a soprano saxophone mouthpiece.
[01:30:08.280 --> 01:30:08.840] Check it out.
[01:30:09.240 --> 01:30:12.360] This is basically a new instrument.
[01:30:26.440 --> 01:30:27.320] Kind of annoying.
[01:30:27.320 --> 01:30:28.360] It is a little annoying.
[01:30:28.360 --> 01:30:29.320] Kind of annoying.
[01:30:29.320 --> 01:30:32.760] Kind of like Kara's statement about candy corn.
[01:30:32.760 --> 01:30:33.800] Four things, Kara.
[01:30:35.400 --> 01:30:38.200] Four things I just researched.
[01:30:38.200 --> 01:30:43.720] Gen X is the most likely to enjoy eating candy corn with 68% FYI.
[01:30:43.720 --> 01:30:44.120] Uh-huh.
[01:30:44.440 --> 01:30:45.080] Not boomers.
[01:30:45.240 --> 01:30:46.280] Yeah, not boomers, Kara.
[01:30:46.600 --> 01:30:51.160] No, well, the fact that boomers were slightly less than 56 is irrelevant.
[01:30:52.120 --> 01:30:57.560] Candy corn is slightly less popular, slightly less popular with younger generations.
[01:30:57.560 --> 01:30:58.200] Uh-huh.
[01:30:58.520 --> 01:31:00.280] And two more, halfway done.
[01:31:00.280 --> 01:31:05.640] Americans hate to receive candy corn the most on Halloween, I guess, compared to other.
[01:31:05.800 --> 01:31:12.040] And my favorite factoid or fact, whatever, California residents consume more than any other state.
[01:31:12.760 --> 01:31:13.800] Interesting.
[01:31:13.800 --> 01:31:17.920] But that, because the population is more than any other state.
[01:31:18.320 --> 01:31:18.640] That's crazy.
[01:31:18.720 --> 01:31:19.360] Is that per capita?
[01:31:19.920 --> 01:31:21.840] I bet you they consume a million other things.
[01:31:22.160 --> 01:31:23.840] Bob, was that per capita or 10 corn?
[01:31:24.080 --> 01:31:25.600] That's all I got, friend.
[01:31:25.920 --> 01:31:28.320] Well, the capital of California is Sacramento.
[01:31:28.320 --> 01:31:29.920] You have to qualify your statistic, Bob.
[01:31:29.920 --> 01:31:31.120] It's a worthless statistic.
[01:31:31.440 --> 01:31:32.560] I have a new notion for you guys.
[01:31:32.880 --> 01:31:34.400] I still love saying it.
[01:31:34.720 --> 01:31:38.720] Did you say people on average hate receiving the candy?
[01:31:39.360 --> 01:31:41.840] It said Americans hate to receive candy corn the most.
[01:31:42.240 --> 01:31:45.440] So I guess other countries like it more than we do.
[01:31:45.680 --> 01:31:48.160] When you say receive, you mean when you're trick-or-treating?
[01:31:48.160 --> 01:31:49.280] He said on Halloween.
[01:31:49.280 --> 01:31:50.080] Yeah, that's right.
[01:31:50.080 --> 01:31:50.240] Yes.
[01:31:50.480 --> 01:31:52.320] Well, on Halloween is vague.
[01:31:52.640 --> 01:31:55.920] Specifically, trick-or-treating or just at any time related to Halloween.
[01:31:56.160 --> 01:31:58.240] Americans hate to receive candy corn the most.
[01:31:59.840 --> 01:32:01.600] That's got to be trick-or-treating.
[01:32:02.960 --> 01:32:03.600] We're off the rails.
[01:32:05.760 --> 01:32:07.760] Honestly, Americans trick-or-treat, not other countries.
[01:32:09.920 --> 01:32:15.520] Kara is in her house and she accidentally eats candy corn.
[01:32:15.520 --> 01:32:16.240] Yes.
[01:32:16.400 --> 01:32:17.280] What do you mean?
[01:32:18.240 --> 01:32:20.800] Yeah, that would be my reaction.
[01:32:22.080 --> 01:32:28.640] But my point is, Bob, they may not like getting it for trick-or-treat because it's loose, not because they don't like candy corn.
[01:32:28.640 --> 01:32:30.320] You don't want to get a bunch of candy.
[01:32:30.480 --> 01:32:31.040] You want to have something that's going to be a good thing.
[01:32:31.200 --> 01:32:33.360] No, it's because candy corn is awful, objectively.
[01:32:33.360 --> 01:32:34.320] No, nobody gives that.
[01:32:34.480 --> 01:32:35.520] Hey, guys, write us some emails.
[01:32:35.520 --> 01:32:37.440] Let us know.
[01:32:37.680 --> 01:32:40.400] Have you ever had the chocolate candy corn?
[01:32:40.880 --> 01:32:42.080] Yes, they do have flavors.
[01:32:42.080 --> 01:32:42.480] Those are good.
[01:32:42.720 --> 01:32:43.200] I don't.
[01:32:43.200 --> 01:32:43.680] No.
[01:32:43.680 --> 01:32:43.840] No.
[01:32:44.000 --> 01:32:44.240] Yeah.
[01:32:44.560 --> 01:32:44.880] What do you mean?
[01:32:44.880 --> 01:32:44.960] No.
[01:32:45.440 --> 01:32:46.480] It's not my favorite.
[01:32:46.480 --> 01:32:50.400] You give me peanut butter cup any damn day, and that's like top of the list.
[01:32:50.360 --> 01:32:57.400] And Kara, if you're dexterous, you could pretend that the candy corn are your canine teeth.
[01:32:56.640 --> 01:33:03.960] This is such an interesting window into your childhood.
[01:33:04.520 --> 01:33:06.440] Kids love those Nesco wafers.
[01:33:06.440 --> 01:33:08.600] Candy of the Year from 1921.
[01:33:08.920 --> 01:33:10.520] Yeah, my God.
[01:33:11.160 --> 01:33:13.320] They are nasty and chalky, and my mom loves them.
[01:33:13.400 --> 01:33:13.880] They are nasty.
[01:33:14.200 --> 01:33:15.320] Exactly right.
[01:33:15.800 --> 01:33:17.000] Generational.
[01:33:17.000 --> 01:33:17.960] Yep.
[01:33:18.840 --> 01:33:19.400] So, Jay.
[01:33:19.560 --> 01:33:20.840] Jay, do you have a new noisy?
[01:33:20.840 --> 01:33:22.520] Oh, Jay, yeah, where have you been?
[01:33:22.840 --> 01:33:24.200] I have a noisy.
[01:33:24.200 --> 01:33:27.240] This is from a listener named Candace Dennison.
[01:33:45.400 --> 01:33:48.920] I picked this one, Bob, because it's a great sound for Halloween.
[01:33:48.920 --> 01:33:49.720] My God, yeah.
[01:33:50.280 --> 01:33:50.760] I know what it is.
[01:33:51.640 --> 01:33:52.280] I know what it is, too.
[01:33:52.360 --> 01:33:54.440] It's a soundscape from Dagobah.
[01:33:56.200 --> 01:33:59.160] It's a bunch of crickets with something else making a noise over there.
[01:33:59.960 --> 01:34:01.320] I had to whack back the crickets.
[01:34:01.320 --> 01:34:02.600] The crickets were crazy loud.
[01:34:02.840 --> 01:34:04.280] I told you it was a cricket noisy.
[01:34:04.280 --> 01:34:10.440] But, Bob, yeah, you know, when I reveal this next week, and I'll tell you all about it, like, this is a really cool sound to use.
[01:34:10.440 --> 01:34:17.560] So, anyway, guys, if you think you know what this week's noisy is or you heard something cool, you can email me at wtn at the skepticsguy.org.
[01:34:17.560 --> 01:34:18.840] We have events coming up.
[01:34:18.840 --> 01:34:20.520] We will be at SciCon.
[01:34:20.520 --> 01:34:23.800] That is going to be the last weekend of October, correct, Steve?
[01:34:24.200 --> 01:34:24.440] Yes.
[01:34:24.760 --> 01:34:27.080] And the web address for that is what, Steve?
[01:34:27.080 --> 01:34:28.360] Sciconference.org.
[01:34:28.360 --> 01:34:30.040] CSIconference.org.
[01:34:30.040 --> 01:34:35.160] We will be having a private SGU podcast recording on December 6th.
[01:34:35.160 --> 01:34:36.040] That's Friday.
[01:34:36.040 --> 01:34:39.160] And then we will be having an extravaganza on Saturday, the 7th.
[01:34:39.640 --> 01:34:42.040] You could buy tickets right now for the extravaganza.
[01:34:42.040 --> 01:34:43.320] That is up on our website.
[01:34:43.320 --> 01:34:44.440] The private show.
[01:34:44.440 --> 01:34:50.560] I'm hoping, again, like I said last week, within a week, I should have the link up there so you guys can start buying tickets for that as well.
[01:34:50.880 --> 01:34:53.680] And Steve, Noticon 2025.
[01:34:53.920 --> 01:34:55.760] Yep, preliminary discussions are happening.
[01:34:56.080 --> 01:34:58.000] Preliminary discussions have happened right now.
[01:34:58.000 --> 01:35:00.080] The preliminary weekend is May 16th.
[01:35:00.080 --> 01:35:01.520] That's the weekend I'm shooting for.
[01:35:01.520 --> 01:35:03.360] I'm talking to hotels right now.
[01:35:03.360 --> 01:35:06.720] So I'm hoping, you know, within a week or two, I'll be able to lock something in.
[01:35:06.720 --> 01:35:07.200] Okay.
[01:35:07.200 --> 01:35:07.520] All right.
[01:35:07.520 --> 01:35:08.320] Thank you, Jay.
[01:35:09.200 --> 01:35:11.680] One or two emails, depending on how long this takes.
[01:35:11.680 --> 01:35:23.600] First one comes from a listener, and they write, the slippery slope is technically an informal logical fallacy, but in American politics, has it become more like a tactic?
[01:35:23.600 --> 01:35:27.440] In the early 1990s, I considered myself in the center of the political spectrum.
[01:35:27.440 --> 01:35:30.640] Without moving my own thinking much, I am now leaning far out to the left.
[01:35:31.440 --> 01:35:45.760] The point of that is that I have watched certain issues, and it does seem that both sides, with the right being more successful, have used wedge issue laws and rulings to move the acceptable point of view, then pushed for stronger, more partisan laws.
[01:35:45.760 --> 01:35:50.160] So is the slippery slope becoming an intentional tactic?
[01:35:50.160 --> 01:35:52.720] Well, is he talking about the Overton window?
[01:35:52.960 --> 01:35:53.680] I mean, that's part.
[01:35:53.760 --> 01:35:55.680] It's kind of different than slippery slope.
[01:35:55.680 --> 01:36:05.680] Yeah, I mean, the Overton window is just the range of political, the spectrum of political opinions depends on where your center is, like where you are.
[01:36:05.680 --> 01:36:05.840] Right.
[01:36:05.840 --> 01:36:10.800] And what we consider left is actually a little bit to the right in Europe, you know.
[01:36:10.800 --> 01:36:11.200] Totally.
[01:36:11.200 --> 01:36:12.160] It's a good example.
[01:36:12.160 --> 01:36:19.600] But I think his core point here is the slippery slope, an intentional tactic that is used in politics.
[01:36:19.920 --> 01:36:22.320] I think, well, he's saying, is it becoming intentional?
[01:36:22.320 --> 01:36:24.080] It's always been intentional.
[01:36:24.080 --> 01:36:25.600] I don't think this is anything new.
[01:36:25.600 --> 01:36:29.440] This is going back as far as I can remember where slippery slope.
[01:36:29.440 --> 01:36:36.360] So the slippery slope slip slope logical fallacy again, informal logical fallacies are context-dependent and not absolute.
[01:36:36.680 --> 01:36:43.560] So that doesn't mean that every argument that takes this form is necessarily unsound.
[01:36:43.560 --> 01:36:47.720] But it becomes a logical fallacy when you take it to extremes.
[01:36:47.720 --> 01:37:02.200] And basically the format of the slippery slope fallacy is that, well, if we allow for something to a certain degree, it will necessarily go to the extreme along some spectrum that I'm determining.
[01:37:02.760 --> 01:37:03.000] Right.
[01:37:03.000 --> 01:37:07.080] Like the most famous and insulting was around the debate around gay marriage.
[01:37:07.240 --> 01:37:11.960] And we would see people go, well, once you can marry the same sex, you're going to be able to marry dogs and stuff.
[01:37:11.960 --> 01:37:12.920] Yeah, right, exactly.
[01:37:13.320 --> 01:37:13.800] And it's like that.
[01:37:14.600 --> 01:37:18.680] If we open it up to same-sex marriage, then people will be marrying animals down there.
[01:37:18.840 --> 01:37:20.680] That's a classic slippery slope argument.
[01:37:21.000 --> 01:37:25.480] Or it's like, well, if you pass a seatbelt law, then what's the next thing they're going to be mandating?
[01:37:25.480 --> 01:37:27.880] Then they'd be coming into your home and whatever.
[01:37:28.600 --> 01:37:28.760] Right.
[01:37:28.760 --> 01:37:30.120] It's going to be more unregulated.
[01:37:31.000 --> 01:37:32.440] They're going to take our guns.
[01:37:32.440 --> 01:37:32.680] Yeah.
[01:37:32.680 --> 01:37:37.560] It's like if you give an inch, then necessarily they're going to take a mile, right?
[01:37:37.560 --> 01:37:43.000] Or then it's the necessarily part that makes it a logical fallacy.
[01:37:43.720 --> 01:37:52.040] Or that, you know, that anywhere along that spectrum necessarily leads to the most extreme part of that spectrum.
[01:37:52.600 --> 01:37:54.120] Steve, that's not a bug.
[01:37:54.120 --> 01:37:55.160] That's a feature.
[01:37:55.160 --> 01:37:57.560] Like, that's what logical fallacies by definition are.
[01:37:57.560 --> 01:38:03.160] They're argument techniques that have the potential to be not sound.
[01:38:03.120 --> 01:38:05.240] Well, but they are often used in rhetoric.
[01:38:05.240 --> 01:38:06.120] That's the whole point.
[01:38:06.120 --> 01:38:25.360] Well, yeah, well, I think what from framing that slightly differently, I think what you're saying is that rhetorical strategies often deliberately use informal logical fallacies in order to make arguments that serve an end, that end not being logic and the truth, but being a point, right?
[01:38:25.360 --> 01:38:26.720] So lawyers do this all the time.
[01:38:26.960 --> 01:38:31.280] Changing people's behavior, like literally persuading people.
[01:38:31.280 --> 01:38:31.600] Right.
[01:38:32.000 --> 01:38:33.040] Lawyers do this all the time.
[01:38:33.040 --> 01:38:35.840] Like they will use arguments they don't necessarily have to agree with.
[01:38:35.840 --> 01:38:39.920] That's not their job to make a correct point.
[01:38:39.920 --> 01:38:43.360] Their job is to defend their client, whatever that is, in their client's interest.
[01:38:43.360 --> 01:38:51.600] And they use any argument they think they can get away with, basically, whether or not it's strictly logically valid or not.
[01:38:52.160 --> 01:38:52.960] Right, that doesn't matter.
[01:38:52.960 --> 01:38:54.720] A lawyer can't go objection.
[01:38:54.720 --> 01:38:55.040] Yeah.
[01:38:55.120 --> 01:38:56.400] Slippery slope.
[01:38:56.400 --> 01:38:57.120] Right, right.
[01:38:58.160 --> 01:38:59.040] World.
[01:38:59.680 --> 01:39:01.200] I'm going to allow it.
[01:39:02.480 --> 01:39:09.600] So, so, yeah, I think, yeah, within politics, I think it's, you know, I both despise and am fascinated by politics.
[01:39:09.680 --> 01:39:25.040] I despise the fact that it is an inherently illogical endeavor, you know, in that the persuasion is prioritized over all else rather than the truth or finding common ground or honesty or virtue.
[01:39:25.040 --> 01:39:27.440] Although people, politicians do take different strategies.
[01:39:27.440 --> 01:39:30.160] There are sort of virtue-based politicians, et cetera.
[01:39:30.160 --> 01:39:38.160] But generally speaking, the center of gravity of political speech is persuasive, whether or not it's scientific or logically valid.
[01:39:38.320 --> 01:39:39.440] I find that annoying.
[01:39:39.440 --> 01:39:44.400] But I also find it fascinating because it is sort of its own logical game.
[01:39:44.400 --> 01:39:53.280] And it's good to dissect what they are they doing, you know, what is the logical error they are making in service to their political ideology.
[01:39:53.440 --> 01:39:59.880] It's a great target-rich environment for like a name-that logical fallacy kind of endeavor.
[01:40:00.040 --> 01:40:00.840] And this is one.
[01:39:59.440 --> 01:40:02.040] So, I agree with the observation.
[01:40:02.200 --> 01:40:07.320] I just think that this is, as far as I can tell, this has always been going on using the slippery slope.
[01:40:07.320 --> 01:40:13.000] And as Kara says, other logical fallacies for rhetorical advantage is as old as politics.
[01:40:13.000 --> 01:40:15.320] Yeah, it's as old as people arguing.
[01:40:15.320 --> 01:40:16.680] Yeah, exactly.
[01:40:16.680 --> 01:40:18.440] That's why we had to identify that.
[01:40:18.440 --> 01:40:18.760] Right.
[01:40:19.000 --> 01:40:24.440] Like, that's why you take a course in logic in college so that you can learn it.
[01:40:24.680 --> 01:40:32.200] Yeah, yeah, not everybody does, but that's why one takes a course in college is to learn when arguments aren't sound.
[01:40:32.840 --> 01:40:36.760] All right, let's go on with science or fiction.
[01:40:39.000 --> 01:40:48.920] It's time for science or fiction each week.
[01:40:48.920 --> 01:40:56.840] I come up with three science news items or facts, two real and one fake, and I challenge my panel of skeptics to sniff out the fake.
[01:40:56.840 --> 01:40:59.240] Just three regular news items this week.
[01:40:59.320 --> 01:41:00.040] You guys ready?
[01:41:00.040 --> 01:41:00.440] Yep.
[01:41:00.440 --> 01:41:13.560] Item number one: a new study finds that substituting team nursing, substituting lower-wage staff for some RNs, can save hospitals significant operating costs without any adverse effects on outcomes.
[01:41:13.560 --> 01:41:29.560] I number two: researchers find that pet dogs trained on soundboards are able to recognize and respond appropriately to spoken words, even if produced by a sound board or someone who is not their owner, without any nonverbal cues.
[01:41:29.880 --> 01:41:38.120] And item number three: NASA scientists have demonstrated for the first time the existence of a global electrostatic field.
[01:41:38.120 --> 01:41:39.960] And yes, I do mean on Earth.
[01:41:39.960 --> 01:41:40.920] Jay, go first.
[01:41:40.920 --> 01:41:54.640] A new study finds that substituting team nursing, substituting lower-wage staff for some RNs, that's a registered nurse, saves hospitals significant operating costs without any adverse effects on outcomes.
[01:41:54.960 --> 01:41:59.600] So you're saying taking an L VN out and putting an RN in her place, for example?
[01:41:59.600 --> 01:41:59.840] No.
[01:42:00.640 --> 01:42:01.520] The opposite.
[01:42:01.520 --> 01:42:10.560] So instead of having six nurses, you have four nurses, but they're helped less expensive and less trained helping.
[01:42:10.800 --> 01:42:11.200] I see.
[01:42:11.360 --> 01:42:15.600] So instead of six RNs, you've got four RNs and two clinical partners.
[01:42:15.600 --> 01:42:16.880] Or three or four clinical partners.
[01:42:16.960 --> 01:42:17.840] Yeah, three clinical partners.
[01:42:17.920 --> 01:42:18.240] Okay, okay.
[01:42:18.240 --> 01:42:18.720] That makes sense.
[01:42:18.800 --> 01:42:19.440] Or more.
[01:42:19.440 --> 01:42:20.240] Now I get it.
[01:42:20.560 --> 01:42:23.440] But the sum cost of their salaries is lower, I'm assuming.
[01:42:24.240 --> 01:42:24.560] Right.
[01:42:24.800 --> 01:42:31.680] You're replacing one RN with a lower-waged group of people, and it's basically roughly the same care.
[01:42:31.680 --> 01:42:32.400] Sort of, yeah.
[01:42:32.400 --> 01:42:32.800] Right.
[01:42:32.800 --> 01:42:33.040] Okay.
[01:42:33.680 --> 01:42:36.080] I think the important, sorry, I just have to clarify one more thing.
[01:42:36.080 --> 01:42:38.160] Does that mean there are no RNs anymore?
[01:42:38.160 --> 01:42:39.600] Or does that just mean some of the RNs?
[01:42:39.840 --> 01:42:40.000] Some.
[01:42:40.000 --> 01:42:41.520] It says some RNs right in there.
[01:42:41.520 --> 01:42:41.840] Okay.
[01:42:41.840 --> 01:42:42.240] Okay.
[01:42:42.240 --> 01:42:43.200] Second one.
[01:42:43.200 --> 01:42:56.400] These researchers found that pet dogs trained on soundboards are able to recognize and respond appropriately to spoken words, even if produced by a soundboard or someone who is not their owner without any nonverbal cues.
[01:42:56.400 --> 01:43:11.040] All right, so I've seen video of this, and I question it because, you know, they're like, they're showing you the dog like stepping on these buttons on the floor, like these bigger buttons, and it can communicate via these sounds that the buttons make.
[01:43:11.040 --> 01:43:18.880] But you're saying that this one is a soundboard where the dogs can respond appropriately to spoken words, even if produced by the soundboards, like the opposite.
[01:43:18.880 --> 01:43:22.800] Like the soundboard is telling them to do something, Steve, and they're responding to it.
[01:43:22.800 --> 01:43:27.600] It's the dog responding to the soundboard, not the dog operating the soundboard.
[01:43:27.600 --> 01:43:27.760] Yeah.
[01:43:28.000 --> 01:43:28.800] Gotcha, gotcha.
[01:43:28.800 --> 01:43:29.040] Okay.
[01:43:29.360 --> 01:43:32.760] Basically, the point of that is to eliminate the nonverbal cues.
[01:43:32.760 --> 01:43:33.880] Exactly, exactly.
[01:43:33.880 --> 01:43:38.200] I mean, my gut is telling me that the nonverbal cues are important.
[01:43:38.200 --> 01:43:40.520] I mean, my dog is always looking at my face.
[01:43:40.520 --> 01:43:43.080] And I notice my dog looks at my hands a lot.
[01:43:43.080 --> 01:43:44.440] So that one's a maybe for me.
[01:43:44.440 --> 01:43:50.520] The last one, NASA scientists have demonstrated for the first time the existence of a global electrostatic field.
[01:43:50.520 --> 01:43:51.400] Oh, boy.
[01:43:51.400 --> 01:43:53.960] That's where super villains come from.
[01:43:53.960 --> 01:43:54.520] Okay.
[01:43:54.520 --> 01:43:58.120] Well, only the shocker and static boy.
[01:43:58.440 --> 01:43:59.560] Static boy.
[01:43:59.560 --> 01:44:00.920] Yeah, Magneto hates it.
[01:44:00.920 --> 01:44:02.520] Leave my balloons alone.
[01:44:02.520 --> 01:44:03.240] All right.
[01:44:03.640 --> 01:44:05.720] I think that that's possible.
[01:44:05.720 --> 01:44:07.720] A global electrostatic field.
[01:44:07.720 --> 01:44:09.800] That's interesting and possible, I think.
[01:44:09.800 --> 01:44:13.400] Something about the nonverbal cues with the dog is rubbing me the wrong way.
[01:44:13.400 --> 01:44:15.000] I wouldn't say that one's a fiction.
[01:44:15.000 --> 01:44:16.200] Okay, Evan.
[01:44:16.200 --> 01:44:18.440] Registered nurses, RNs, right?
[01:44:18.440 --> 01:44:22.840] Can save hospitals significant operating costs, Steve.
[01:44:22.840 --> 01:44:24.440] You come back.
[01:44:24.760 --> 01:44:26.680] These are my OR shoes.
[01:44:27.240 --> 01:44:28.600] Oh, are they?
[01:44:29.480 --> 01:44:30.360] Anybody remember that?
[01:44:30.600 --> 01:44:31.800] Rushmore.
[01:44:32.760 --> 01:44:35.720] I love Wes Anderson films.
[01:44:35.720 --> 01:44:36.520] They're great.
[01:44:36.760 --> 01:44:40.520] But in any case, this one, I don't know.
[01:44:41.560 --> 01:44:42.200] So what?
[01:44:42.200 --> 01:44:44.520] We're talking about substituting.
[01:44:44.840 --> 01:44:47.320] RNs have specific skills, right?
[01:44:47.320 --> 01:44:50.440] So if you're going to have the team nurse, you kind of.
[01:44:50.600 --> 01:44:51.080] I don't know.
[01:44:51.080 --> 01:44:57.400] Does that somehow dilute the skill sets that an RN would otherwise bring somehow?
[01:44:57.400 --> 01:45:00.840] Would that have an without any adverse effects or outcomes?
[01:45:00.840 --> 01:45:02.520] That's pretty, oh boy.
[01:45:02.520 --> 01:45:03.480] Without any.
[01:45:04.120 --> 01:45:04.840] I don't know.
[01:45:04.840 --> 01:45:05.240] I don't know.
[01:45:05.240 --> 01:45:06.120] That one's tricky.
[01:45:06.120 --> 01:45:08.760] But the dog one as well is tricky as well.
[01:45:08.760 --> 01:45:14.280] There's a lot going on here in this because it's about the soundboards, okay?
[01:45:14.280 --> 01:45:21.120] Even if produced by a soundboard or someone else who's not their owner without any non-verbal cues.
[01:45:14.840 --> 01:45:21.920] So, whoa.
[01:45:22.880 --> 01:45:36.960] We're thinking of the clever Hans example, maybe here, which is how, you know, sort of the famous example in history about animals taking, you know, cues, verbal, you know, subtle cues from their trainers or whomever.
[01:45:36.960 --> 01:45:38.480] So that came to mind.
[01:45:38.640 --> 01:45:40.400] This would mean this goes around it.
[01:45:40.400 --> 01:45:49.760] Dogs are incredible, and they're learning so much more about the capabilities and the brains of dogs and what they comprehend and what they understand and what they feel.
[01:45:49.760 --> 01:45:55.600] This would be an amazing discovery for an already amazing species of animal.
[01:45:55.840 --> 01:46:01.200] And then the last one about the, oh, first time ever for the global electrostatic field.
[01:46:01.200 --> 01:46:07.040] This doesn't have to do with like the harmonics of the earth, right?
[01:46:07.040 --> 01:46:10.560] That whole 384 megahertz thing.
[01:46:10.560 --> 01:46:13.040] I don't think it has to do with that, right?
[01:46:13.040 --> 01:46:21.760] Which a lot of nonsense and garbage products are all based on, like wristwatches and, you know, in harmony with the earth and stuff.
[01:46:21.760 --> 01:46:23.520] I hope it has nothing to do with that.
[01:46:25.520 --> 01:46:26.800] These are tough.
[01:46:26.800 --> 01:46:36.960] I think the nurse's one, though, I think of the three of these is going to be the one that's the fiction because without any adverse effects on outcomes, any?
[01:46:36.960 --> 01:46:38.080] You know, that's absolute.
[01:46:38.080 --> 01:46:40.240] And I just don't know if that's the case.
[01:46:40.240 --> 01:46:41.680] So I think that one's the fiction.
[01:46:41.680 --> 01:46:42.480] Okay, Bob.
[01:46:43.520 --> 01:46:46.560] All right, the global electrostatic field.
[01:46:46.880 --> 01:46:48.08
Prompt 6: Key Takeaways
Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.
Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...".
Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive.
IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}
Prompt 7: Segments
Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.
For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion
IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.
Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
"segments": [
{
"segment_title": "Topic Discussion",
"timestamp": "01:15:30",
"key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
"segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
}
]
}
Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.
Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:
Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)
DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names
IMPORTANT:
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.
Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
"media_mentions": [
{
"title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
"category": "Book",
"author_artist": "N/A",
"context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
"context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
"timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
}
]
}
If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}
Prompt 9: Context Setup
You are an expert data extractor tasked with analyzing a podcast transcript.
I will provide you with part 3 of 3 from a podcast transcript.
I will then ask you to extract different types of information from this content in subsequent messages. Please confirm you have received and understood the transcript content.
Transcript section:
ced by a soundboard or someone else who's not their owner without any non-verbal cues.
[01:45:14.840 --> 01:45:21.920] So, whoa.
[01:45:22.880 --> 01:45:36.960] We're thinking of the clever Hans example, maybe here, which is how, you know, sort of the famous example in history about animals taking, you know, cues, verbal, you know, subtle cues from their trainers or whomever.
[01:45:36.960 --> 01:45:38.480] So that came to mind.
[01:45:38.640 --> 01:45:40.400] This would mean this goes around it.
[01:45:40.400 --> 01:45:49.760] Dogs are incredible, and they're learning so much more about the capabilities and the brains of dogs and what they comprehend and what they understand and what they feel.
[01:45:49.760 --> 01:45:55.600] This would be an amazing discovery for an already amazing species of animal.
[01:45:55.840 --> 01:46:01.200] And then the last one about the, oh, first time ever for the global electrostatic field.
[01:46:01.200 --> 01:46:07.040] This doesn't have to do with like the harmonics of the earth, right?
[01:46:07.040 --> 01:46:10.560] That whole 384 megahertz thing.
[01:46:10.560 --> 01:46:13.040] I don't think it has to do with that, right?
[01:46:13.040 --> 01:46:21.760] Which a lot of nonsense and garbage products are all based on, like wristwatches and, you know, in harmony with the earth and stuff.
[01:46:21.760 --> 01:46:23.520] I hope it has nothing to do with that.
[01:46:25.520 --> 01:46:26.800] These are tough.
[01:46:26.800 --> 01:46:36.960] I think the nurse's one, though, I think of the three of these is going to be the one that's the fiction because without any adverse effects on outcomes, any?
[01:46:36.960 --> 01:46:38.080] You know, that's absolute.
[01:46:38.080 --> 01:46:40.240] And I just don't know if that's the case.
[01:46:40.240 --> 01:46:41.680] So I think that one's the fiction.
[01:46:41.680 --> 01:46:42.480] Okay, Bob.
[01:46:43.520 --> 01:46:46.560] All right, the global electrostatic field.
[01:46:46.880 --> 01:46:48.080] That's possible.
[01:46:48.320 --> 01:46:52.160] That one's not really rubbing me the wrong way like the other two.
[01:46:52.160 --> 01:47:00.840] The nurse one, I could make sense of that in my mind because RNs have a range of skills.
[01:46:59.920 --> 01:47:04.920] Some are very dependent on education, others less so.
[01:47:05.240 --> 01:47:23.560] I would think that offloading some of the easier tasks to unqualified RNs, if you will, could say, could potentially allow the RNs to focus on the most important and more technical tasks and offloading the easier tasks to the less experienced people.
[01:47:23.560 --> 01:47:25.560] I could see how that would make sense.
[01:47:25.800 --> 01:47:28.360] It seems possible, but it depends.
[01:47:28.760 --> 01:47:38.760] If the hospital is busy and you're down a qualified RN, then that would be a drawback for sure, no matter how many non-RNs you have.
[01:47:39.320 --> 01:47:44.120] So, and the dog one, I could see that as well.
[01:47:44.280 --> 01:47:49.400] I don't think verbal cues, I don't think nonverbal cues are absolutely critical.
[01:47:49.400 --> 01:47:58.920] I mean, I think if you train a dog with non-verb, you know, with the non-verbal cues in a specific setting, that they would become used to that as well.
[01:47:59.480 --> 01:48:07.480] And I think they're smart enough to go just by the audible component, and regardless of any nonverbal impact.
[01:48:07.480 --> 01:48:09.080] So, I could see that.
[01:48:09.640 --> 01:48:14.200] Nothing's like any red sirens are going off for either of these.
[01:48:14.440 --> 01:48:15.800] But I got to pick one of the other things.
[01:48:16.440 --> 01:48:17.640] I'll go with the nurse.
[01:48:17.640 --> 01:48:18.040] Okay.
[01:48:18.440 --> 01:48:19.640] All right, Kara.
[01:48:19.640 --> 01:48:24.280] So, I don't know on the global electrostatic field, but everybody else said that they think it's science.
[01:48:24.600 --> 01:48:31.000] And I trust your global electrostatic field knowledge more than my own.
[01:48:31.000 --> 01:48:33.000] So, so I'm going to say that that one's science.
[01:48:33.480 --> 01:48:38.360] I'm going to pick the nurses as the fiction for this reason.
[01:48:38.680 --> 01:48:50.640] I, number one, I have friends whose dog, I have a friend who trained her dog to retrieve a bunch of different toys, and it's like impressive.
[01:48:51.200 --> 01:49:00.320] And maybe there's a slight change in her tone when she says them, but really, like, I think there's 15 different toys, and her dog knows the name of them.
[01:49:00.320 --> 01:49:04.000] She can say, get the fox, and it gets the fox out of the other room.
[01:49:04.000 --> 01:49:12.080] And to me, that shows at least some ability to break down something about the phonemes and that it's not just tone.
[01:49:12.400 --> 01:49:15.520] The RN one, I mean, think about a hospital.
[01:49:15.520 --> 01:49:16.640] It's a well-oiled machine.
[01:49:16.720 --> 01:49:19.360] Doesn't always work well-oiled, but that's the hope, right?
[01:49:19.360 --> 01:49:28.640] And when I think about the hospital where I work, one RN per patient in the ICU, usually one RN per four patients in the quads on the floor.
[01:49:28.640 --> 01:49:39.920] Getting, making it so that it's one RN per two patients in the ICU with a few other clinical staff means that there are skills that are no longer present.
[01:49:39.920 --> 01:49:41.520] And that worries me a lot.
[01:49:41.520 --> 01:49:49.520] The gestalt there is that you can't add up three people who do something very specific and it'll equal one person who does something else that's very specific.
[01:49:49.520 --> 01:49:52.320] We have specific jobs and titles for a reason.
[01:49:52.320 --> 01:49:57.520] Other people who do other things that are specific are not equivalent if you just add them up.
[01:49:57.520 --> 01:49:59.680] And so I'm going to say that that one's a fiction.
[01:49:59.680 --> 01:50:01.760] All right, so you all agree with the third one.
[01:50:01.760 --> 01:50:02.480] So we'll start there.
[01:50:02.480 --> 01:50:07.840] NASA scientists have demonstrated for the first time the existence of a global electrostatic field.
[01:50:07.840 --> 01:50:10.080] You guys all think this one is science.
[01:50:10.080 --> 01:50:12.560] The question is, did they find it?
[01:50:12.560 --> 01:50:14.480] And is this the first time?
[01:50:14.480 --> 01:50:17.040] Maybe this is something we've known about for decades.
[01:50:17.040 --> 01:50:19.600] This one is science.
[01:50:19.600 --> 01:50:20.240] This is science.
[01:50:20.480 --> 01:50:21.120] First time.
[01:50:21.120 --> 01:50:21.760] It is.
[01:50:21.760 --> 01:50:29.360] So we thought maybe there might be one, but we had no evidence that there was a static electro, you know, electrostatic global field.
[01:50:29.480 --> 01:50:31.960] And NASA was able to demonstrate it for the first time.
[01:50:32.120 --> 01:50:38.760] The name of the study is Earth's Ambipolar Electrostatic Field and its Role in Ion Escape to Space.
[01:50:38.760 --> 01:50:43.560] So we know that there is, for example, this, you know, ions escaping through the poles.
[01:50:43.560 --> 01:50:49.960] It's kind of like our equivalent of like a same thing, a sort of a streaming of ions out of the Earth going through the poles.
[01:50:49.960 --> 01:50:53.880] And you can't really fully account for this by the magnetic field.
[01:50:54.200 --> 01:51:00.840] So there was suspicion that there might be a global electrostatic field, but it wasn't really known.
[01:51:00.840 --> 01:51:03.080] But they were able to measure it.
[01:51:03.080 --> 01:51:09.000] It's plus 0.55, plus or minus 0.09 volts.
[01:51:09.000 --> 01:51:17.640] Electrostatic potential drop between 250 kilometers and 768 kilometers from a planetary electrostatic field.
[01:51:17.640 --> 01:51:18.200] Cool, man.
[01:51:18.360 --> 01:51:23.880] It generates an outward pressure on ionospheric electrons.
[01:51:23.880 --> 01:51:24.760] Yeah, very cool.
[01:51:24.760 --> 01:51:30.440] So we'll add that to the Earth's gravitational field and its magnetic field, and now also an electrostatic field.
[01:51:30.440 --> 01:51:35.480] Bob, why is there no gravito superhero or gravity?
[01:51:37.080 --> 01:51:38.920] There's a magneto, right?
[01:51:38.920 --> 01:51:41.880] There's a lot of electricity-based superheroes.
[01:51:41.880 --> 01:51:43.560] Why no gravito?
[01:51:43.560 --> 01:51:45.960] I've heard of like gravitometric as a word.
[01:51:45.960 --> 01:51:47.080] I'm saying a superhero.
[01:51:47.640 --> 01:51:48.680] Gravity-based superheroes.
[01:51:48.760 --> 01:51:50.040] Yeah, it's too weak.
[01:51:50.360 --> 01:51:54.200] And even if it wasn't too weak, would you really want to walk around and just have things stick to you?
[01:51:54.200 --> 01:51:56.520] No, not necessarily, but let's say, you know.
[01:51:56.920 --> 01:51:58.360] Oh, you're not the gravity.
[01:51:58.360 --> 01:52:04.840] No, but if you could control gravity, you could make people just crush them by increasing their local gravitational field.
[01:52:04.920 --> 01:52:05.720] Yeah, that'd be kind of cool.
[01:52:06.040 --> 01:52:07.240] It'd be great to float people.
[01:52:08.680 --> 01:52:11.880] They'd probably be the best-looking superhero because, you know, they're so attractive.
[01:52:11.880 --> 01:52:12.440] Yeah.
[01:52:13.240 --> 01:52:15.520] They have a lot of gravitas.
[01:52:16.240 --> 01:52:16.960] Ah, nice.
[01:52:17.760 --> 01:52:19.360] He's widely say that.
[01:52:19.360 --> 01:52:20.160] All right.
[01:52:14.920 --> 01:52:22.160] Let's go back to item number one.
[01:52:22.240 --> 01:52:31.200] A new study finds that substituting team nursing, substituting lower-wage staff for some RNs, can save hospitals significant operating costs without any adverse effect on outcomes.
[01:52:31.200 --> 01:52:34.640] Bob, Evan, Kara, you think this one is the fiction.
[01:52:34.640 --> 01:52:36.640] Jay, you think the one is science.
[01:52:37.280 --> 01:52:41.600] So, Bob, what you said is that's the other point of view, right?
[01:52:41.840 --> 01:52:49.680] And that is exactly the logic that was used in order to try out this model, this alternate model of staffing.
[01:52:50.160 --> 01:52:57.840] That you have, why pay nurses to do things that a medical assistant could be doing or an LPN could be doing?
[01:52:57.840 --> 01:52:58.240] Exactly.
[01:52:58.800 --> 01:52:59.600] It seems reasonable.
[01:52:59.680 --> 01:53:00.480] It seems perfectly reasonable.
[01:53:00.560 --> 01:53:02.000] We don't do that, do we?
[01:53:02.000 --> 01:53:05.440] Well, we pay medical assistants to do things medical assistants can do.
[01:53:05.440 --> 01:53:11.040] Yeah, but I'm saying some of, like, if you have a nurse who's in charge of a patient, they're doing everything, right?
[01:53:11.280 --> 01:53:13.360] I guess, not where I work.
[01:53:13.360 --> 01:53:16.000] So they also have medical assistants.
[01:53:16.320 --> 01:53:17.040] So, what do you think?
[01:53:18.000 --> 01:53:20.160] Then that model would work, right?
[01:53:20.160 --> 01:53:21.760] If that's what you're saying.
[01:53:21.920 --> 01:53:30.480] No, I'm saying that if you take the model that is working and then you dilute it even more, it is dangerous.
[01:53:30.480 --> 01:53:34.640] Well, this one is the fiction.
[01:53:36.800 --> 01:53:47.360] But Kara, even what you're describing, so like at Yale, for example, 20 years ago, we went to the team nursing model and it was an absolute disaster.
[01:53:47.360 --> 01:53:48.880] It was not good.
[01:53:49.200 --> 01:53:53.120] And because there was basically a shortage of nurses as a result.
[01:53:53.120 --> 01:54:07.160] And what the study found was that there is a lot of adverse effects when you go to this model, not only on patient care, but on the bottom line for hospitals.
[01:54:07.480 --> 01:54:08.360] Oh, interesting.
[01:54:08.360 --> 01:54:09.640] They lose money.
[01:54:09.800 --> 01:54:11.160] They lose money.
[01:54:11.160 --> 01:54:12.200] Absolutely.
[01:54:12.200 --> 01:54:13.880] Isn't that just always how it goes?
[01:54:13.880 --> 01:54:16.520] People think they're cutting corners and they're actually costing themselves money.
[01:54:16.600 --> 01:54:22.280] So what they found was a 10 percentage point reduction in RNs, so just 10% fewer RNs, right?
[01:54:22.280 --> 01:54:44.920] Was associated with a 7% higher odds of in-hospital death, 1% odds of readmission, 2% increase in expected delays, lower patient satisfaction, and would result nationwide in 10,947 avoidable deaths annually and roughly cost Medicare $68.5 million annually.
[01:54:44.920 --> 01:54:45.720] Wow.
[01:54:45.720 --> 01:54:48.120] This is pretty much exactly what we experienced.
[01:54:48.280 --> 01:54:51.720] I think a lot of hospitals probably have had their own experience with this.
[01:54:52.600 --> 01:54:58.120] It is that it's not just what skills were you expressly trained in.
[01:54:58.120 --> 01:55:02.280] It's also your overall knowledge and ability.
[01:55:02.680 --> 01:55:03.560] Yeah, it's your competence.
[01:55:03.720 --> 01:55:04.200] Yes.
[01:55:04.200 --> 01:55:15.480] And so you do, there is a benefit to having even somebody who's overqualified involved in, you know, intimately involved with every aspect of care and not, as you say, diluting.
[01:55:15.480 --> 01:55:23.320] Because then also when you add team members, now you add another layer of communication and coordination that adds complexity to the whole thing.
[01:55:23.560 --> 01:55:28.600] Every one of those layers is an opportunity for mistakes to happen or miscommunications, et cetera.
[01:55:28.600 --> 01:55:33.000] It's just better to just pay a lot of nurses to do nursing work.
[01:55:33.800 --> 01:55:38.200] They are highly trained, highly skilled, and highly valuable in the clinical setting.
[01:55:38.200 --> 01:55:44.600] And it was basically a failed experiment trying to dilute the nursing staff to save money.
[01:55:44.720 --> 01:55:52.960] Now I want Medicare to do the same study for psychologists so that we can stop having to prove why we matter.
[01:55:53.680 --> 01:55:55.680] We're good for reducing readmission.
[01:55:56.240 --> 01:56:11.280] Pretty much, whenever, I mean, over the years, I've looked at many, many studies looking at comparisons between more specialized, higher-trained medical staff at every level versus more generalists or lesser trained.
[01:56:11.280 --> 01:56:15.920] And the more specialist, higher-trained staff always has better outcomes, right?
[01:56:15.920 --> 01:56:20.080] Even like within neurology, obviously I'm very familiar with the neurological literature.
[01:56:20.080 --> 01:56:33.120] If you compare stroke outcomes from a patient being admitted to a general neurology service versus a patient being admitted to a stroke specialty service, the stroke outcomes are better.
[01:56:33.120 --> 01:56:50.640] And even if the MD staff is the same, if you admit them to a stroke floor with stroke nurses, the outcome is better than if you admit them to just a general medical floor with nurses who are not specifically trained or experienced dealing with strokes.
[01:56:50.640 --> 01:56:56.240] So experience and expertise actually matters for patient outcomes.
[01:56:56.240 --> 01:56:58.320] There's just no substitute for that.
[01:56:58.320 --> 01:57:16.400] All right, this means that researchers find that pet dogs trained on soundboards are able to recognize and respond appropriately to spoken words, even if produced by a soundboard or someone who is not their owner without any nonverbal cues, is science because dogs do understand words in the absence of intonation or nonverbal cues.
[01:57:16.400 --> 01:57:26.120] However, Jay, when I was researching this, I looked at a bunch of those same dogs trained on soundboard videos, and they are all bullshit.
[01:57:26.000 --> 01:57:26.600] I didn't buy them.
[01:57:27.760 --> 01:57:30.040] I didn't buy a single one of them.
[01:57:29.440 --> 01:57:33.240] And, you know, yeah, so take a look at them and tell me what you think.
[01:57:33.400 --> 01:57:44.280] But basically, like on one of them, you have the owner, so you have like, there's maybe what, 20 buttons spread out on the floor, and they're paw-sized, so the dog can put their paw on it to activate it.
[01:57:44.280 --> 01:57:48.840] And the owner is like, you know, expectantly asking their dog a question.
[01:57:48.840 --> 01:57:50.360] Do you, you know, what do you want to do?
[01:57:50.360 --> 01:57:51.720] You know, what do you want?
[01:57:51.720 --> 01:57:56.280] And then the dog hits a button, and whatever button they hit is like appropriate for a dog, right?
[01:57:56.280 --> 01:57:58.360] It's not like there's some crazy things on there.
[01:57:58.360 --> 01:58:02.840] It's like, it says like outside, food, walk, scratchy, whatever.
[01:58:02.840 --> 01:58:05.080] Anything that dog hits, the bone's like, you want food?
[01:58:05.080 --> 01:58:05.960] Okay, here's the food.
[01:58:05.960 --> 01:58:06.840] And so the owner just hits.
[01:58:07.000 --> 01:58:08.840] And then, of course, the dog is like, I'm thrilled.
[01:58:08.840 --> 01:58:10.200] I like all of my choices.
[01:58:10.760 --> 01:58:11.960] It's like you can't go wrong.
[01:58:11.960 --> 01:58:16.600] But the owner just interprets whatever button the dog presses and makes it make sense.
[01:58:16.600 --> 01:58:17.240] You know what I mean?
[01:58:17.240 --> 01:58:18.920] They're doing all the cognitive work.
[01:58:18.920 --> 01:58:23.240] In one of the videos, like the dog is sitting in front of the soundboard.
[01:58:23.240 --> 01:58:32.520] The owner, you know, again, asks him a question, and the dog puts his paw out without looking on the closest button to him.
[01:58:32.520 --> 01:58:33.160] That was it.
[01:58:33.480 --> 01:58:38.120] Like, he didn't, like, go up and down the board and go to the one button that he liked.
[01:58:38.120 --> 01:58:43.480] It happened to be the one that was right in front of his paw, and he didn't even look at the board.
[01:58:43.480 --> 01:58:44.200] You know what I mean?
[01:58:44.200 --> 01:58:48.440] He just put his paw down and got his reward, whatever that was.
[01:58:48.440 --> 01:58:50.840] So that's the level that we're talking about.
[01:58:50.840 --> 01:58:55.720] It's just owners completely over-interpreting what the dog is doing.
[01:58:55.720 --> 01:58:59.240] And I just didn't buy any of the videos that I saw.
[01:58:59.800 --> 01:59:04.600] Even when, and, you know, we're also like, we're seeing selected videos.
[01:59:04.600 --> 01:59:08.440] Like, we don't know like how long it takes for them to get that accurate.
[01:59:08.600 --> 01:59:09.800] It's like a trick shot video.
[01:59:10.040 --> 01:59:11.720] Like, I love trick shot videos on YouTube.
[01:59:11.880 --> 01:59:12.680] But you have no idea how many videos.
[01:59:12.840 --> 01:59:14.760] That's like a 77th trough.
[01:59:14.760 --> 01:59:14.840] Yeah.
[01:59:15.280 --> 01:59:25.440] But even if you, even if that's not the case, like, you know, I think the dogs learn to engage in behavior, which gets them rewards, you know, and that includes putting their paws on these buttons.
[01:59:25.440 --> 01:59:28.880] It doesn't mean that they're communicating to you.
[01:59:28.880 --> 01:59:30.320] You know, oh, for sure.
[01:59:30.320 --> 01:59:33.200] You could do the exact same, like the YouTube videos you're talking about.
[01:59:33.200 --> 01:59:34.400] You could do those with a mouse.
[01:59:34.400 --> 01:59:34.880] Yeah.
[01:59:34.880 --> 01:59:37.520] You could do those with a chipmunk.
[01:59:37.520 --> 01:59:40.640] Like, you can train any animal to press a bar.
[01:59:41.040 --> 01:59:42.240] You can get a reward, right?
[01:59:42.240 --> 01:59:42.480] Yeah.
[01:59:42.720 --> 01:59:44.960] Like, it's a lab, lab animal want to reward.
[01:59:45.200 --> 01:59:52.000] But there was no evidence in the videos I saw that there was any specificity to what the dogs were doing.
[01:59:52.000 --> 01:59:54.240] No, and sometimes it literally is like a fortune cookie.
[01:59:54.400 --> 01:59:58.720] Like the buttons will say things like, Mom, sad, go.
[01:59:59.040 --> 02:00:00.640] And it'll be like, mom, sad, go.
[02:00:00.640 --> 02:00:02.160] Mom is sad when she goes.
[02:00:02.160 --> 02:00:02.640] Yeah, exactly.
[02:00:02.880 --> 02:00:06.720] You know, and it's like, that was exactly what was happening.
[02:00:06.720 --> 02:00:07.200] Yeah.
[02:00:07.760 --> 02:00:15.840] They just anthropomorphize and interpret whatever buttons the dog hit in some way, and then the dog gets some reward, you know, basically.
[02:00:16.160 --> 02:00:23.360] And again, if there's more impressive performances out there, why aren't those the videos that are being uploaded to social media, right?
[02:00:23.360 --> 02:00:28.320] You would think that this is like if there was a really impressive one out there, that we would be seeing it.
[02:00:28.320 --> 02:00:32.560] But what I was seeing was not convincing in the slightest.
[02:00:32.560 --> 02:00:37.520] But having said that, I believe that dogs do understand words, you know, even without intonation.
[02:00:37.840 --> 02:00:45.520] And just even, I know it's hard anecdotally, and as a dog owner to really know, but we try to test it out.
[02:00:45.520 --> 02:00:48.080] Like, our dog knows the word walk.
[02:00:48.080 --> 02:00:48.720] He just does.
[02:00:48.720 --> 02:00:58.720] And if we say it even without addressing it to the dog or without any intonation, like we, he reacts the same way, basically.
[02:00:58.720 --> 02:01:05.480] Yeah, I've seen that with a lot of friends, where especially with like herding dogs and really intelligent dogs that are very high energy, they'll have to be careful.
[02:01:05.560 --> 02:01:08.200] Like, guys, do you want to go on a drive?
[02:01:08.200 --> 02:01:11.160] Yeah, like you cannot say they're like, oh, I don't want to freak out my dog.
[02:01:11.480 --> 02:01:11.800] Exactly.
[02:01:11.800 --> 02:01:12.440] That's the same thing.
[02:01:12.440 --> 02:01:14.920] Like, we some and we inadvertently trigger him sometimes.
[02:01:15.000 --> 02:01:17.400] We're just talking and we mention the word and he's like, it's all excited.
[02:01:17.400 --> 02:01:18.920] Like, oh, crap, I said the word.
[02:01:18.920 --> 02:01:21.560] You know, like, we're not even trying to communicate with him.
[02:01:21.560 --> 02:01:22.680] But yeah, and he is a herder.
[02:01:22.680 --> 02:01:23.800] He's a very smart dog.
[02:01:23.800 --> 02:01:24.600] Yeah, cute.
[02:01:24.600 --> 02:01:25.080] Yeah, yeah.
[02:01:25.080 --> 02:01:25.720] No, it's cute.
[02:01:25.720 --> 02:01:27.000] But of course, then we could also use that.
[02:01:27.000 --> 02:01:30.760] Like, we know we can get them all excited just by saying, Do you want to go for a walk?
[02:01:30.760 --> 02:01:32.120] And then he'd just go crazy.
[02:01:32.120 --> 02:01:32.760] Yeah.
[02:01:33.640 --> 02:01:34.200] It's fun.
[02:01:34.200 --> 02:01:35.080] That's a lot of fun.
[02:01:35.080 --> 02:01:40.280] But yeah, it's so easy to overinterpret what your dogs can understand.
[02:01:40.840 --> 02:01:41.480] You love that.
[02:01:41.480 --> 02:01:42.040] Yeah, absolutely.
[02:01:42.120 --> 02:01:43.640] It's a reflection of you.
[02:01:43.960 --> 02:01:47.400] I mean, they evolved to touch our heartstrings, absolutely.
[02:01:47.400 --> 02:02:00.760] And the other thing is that they have, you know, we talked before about the fact that dogs have a high neuronal density and that they have a, they do, you know, did evolve to have a very, to be very in tune socially with their owners.
[02:02:00.760 --> 02:02:03.400] That's, that was their survival strategy, right?
[02:02:03.400 --> 02:02:08.200] Was to make us care about them and feed them and, you know, incorporate them into our lives and our villages and et cetera.
[02:02:08.200 --> 02:02:09.160] And it worked.
[02:02:09.160 --> 02:02:17.320] And so I do think that they are very, very sensitive to human social cues, you know, human communication.
[02:02:17.320 --> 02:02:20.760] And they certainly figure out how to make their wants known to us.
[02:02:20.760 --> 02:02:21.480] Totally.
[02:02:21.480 --> 02:02:22.040] Okay.
[02:02:22.040 --> 02:02:23.400] Good job, everyone.
[02:02:23.400 --> 02:02:25.720] Evan, you got a quote for us?
[02:02:25.720 --> 02:02:26.360] I do.
[02:02:26.360 --> 02:02:39.320] This week's quote was suggested by a listener, Nicholas from Denmark, who says he's a big fan of the show, been listening to every new episode since first finding the podcast, although he doesn't say when he found the podcast.
[02:02:39.320 --> 02:02:41.320] But in any case, thank you.
[02:02:41.320 --> 02:02:44.920] And here is the quote: Sometimes scientists change their minds.
[02:02:46.000 --> 02:02:48.160] New developments cause a rethink.
[02:02:48.160 --> 02:02:57.040] If this bothers you, consider how much damage is being done to the world by people for whom new developments do not cause a rethink.
[02:02:57.520 --> 02:02:58.000] Yep.
[02:02:58.240 --> 02:03:02.960] That was written by Terry Pratchett back in 2002.
[02:03:02.960 --> 02:03:03.520] Wow.
[02:03:03.840 --> 02:03:04.480] Wrote that.
[02:03:04.720 --> 02:03:08.000] And my gosh, this could have been written yesterday.
[02:03:08.160 --> 02:03:08.640] Totally wrong.
[02:03:08.880 --> 02:03:11.280] And it could have been written a thousand years ago, too.
[02:03:11.280 --> 02:03:12.080] 2,000 years ago.
[02:03:12.400 --> 02:03:13.920] This is a universal truth.
[02:03:13.920 --> 02:03:14.640] Absolutely.
[02:03:14.640 --> 02:03:18.880] I know it's always weird to me when people try to shame other people for changing their mind.
[02:03:18.880 --> 02:03:20.800] Like, you call it flip-flopping or whatever.
[02:03:21.120 --> 02:03:23.680] It's a weird political derogatory.
[02:03:23.920 --> 02:03:29.120] It's like, but yeah, new information came along, and I changed my mind to accommodate new facts.
[02:03:29.120 --> 02:03:33.040] What do you do, you know, when you're confronted with new facts?
[02:03:33.520 --> 02:03:40.560] But yeah, again, that gets back to like in politics, anything could be made into a positive or a negative, depending on what side it's on.
[02:03:40.880 --> 02:03:42.560] Anything, anything could be spun.
[02:03:42.560 --> 02:03:43.200] Yeah.
[02:03:43.520 --> 02:03:44.160] All right.
[02:03:44.160 --> 02:03:46.640] Well, thank you all for joining me this week.
[02:03:46.640 --> 02:03:47.360] You got it, Steve.
[02:03:47.440 --> 02:03:48.480] Thanks, Steve.
[02:03:48.480 --> 02:03:52.880] And until next week, this is your Skeptic's Guide to the Universe.
[02:03:55.200 --> 02:04:01.840] Skeptic's Guide to the Universe is produced by SGU Productions, dedicated to promoting science and critical thinking.
[02:04:01.840 --> 02:04:06.480] For more information, visit us at the skepticsguide.org.
[02:04:06.480 --> 02:04:10.400] Send your questions to info at the skepticsguide.org.
[02:04:10.400 --> 02:04:21.120] And if you would like to support the show and all the work that we do, go to patreon.com/slash skepticsguide and consider becoming a patron and becoming part of the SGU community.
[02:04:21.120 --> 02:04:24.640] Our listeners and supporters are what make SGU possible.
[02:04:33.240 --> 02:04:37.800] Being a real estate agent isn't about listing houses, it's about connecting to people.
[02:04:37.800 --> 02:04:39.960] I need to find new buyers every day.
[02:04:39.960 --> 02:04:44.440] So I promote my listings using radio commercials from iHeartAdBuilder.com.
[02:04:44.440 --> 02:04:47.960] Now, every time I have an open house, it's a full house.
[02:04:48.280 --> 02:04:54.680] A custom radio ad from iHeartAdBuilder is the fast, affordable way to drive customers to your business.
[02:04:54.680 --> 02:04:57.000] Put the power of radio to work for you.
[02:04:57.000 --> 02:05:00.280] Get started now at iHeartAdBuilder.com.
Prompt 10: Key Takeaways
Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.
Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...".
Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive.
IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}
Prompt 11: Segments
Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.
For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion
IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.
Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
"segments": [
{
"segment_title": "Topic Discussion",
"timestamp": "01:15:30",
"key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
"segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
}
]
}
Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.
Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:
Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)
DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names
IMPORTANT:
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.
Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
"media_mentions": [
{
"title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
"category": "Book",
"author_artist": "N/A",
"context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
"context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
"timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
}
]
}
If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}
Full Transcript
[00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:08.880] Imagine you're a business owner relying on a dozen different software programs, each one disconnected, more expensive, and more complicated than the last.
[00:00:08.880 --> 00:00:11.280] It can be incredibly stressful, right?
[00:00:11.280 --> 00:00:13.360] Now, picture Odo.
[00:00:13.360 --> 00:00:17.600] Odu brings all the tools your business needs into one simple platform.
[00:00:17.600 --> 00:00:23.920] CRM, accounting, inventory, manufacturing, marketing, HR, and more.
[00:00:23.920 --> 00:00:26.080] All seamlessly connected.
[00:00:26.080 --> 00:00:31.760] Everything works together, giving you the peace of mind that your business is running smoothly from every angle.
[00:00:31.760 --> 00:00:38.720] Odu's open source applications are user-friendly and designed to scale with your business, saving you time and money.
[00:00:38.720 --> 00:00:44.000] Say goodbye to juggling multiple platforms and hello to efficient integrated management.
[00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:48.560] Stop wasting resources on complicated systems and make the switch to Odo today.
[00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:56.960] Visit Odu.com, ODOO.com, and discover how Odu can simplify and streamline your business operations.
[00:00:56.960 --> 00:01:00.320] Odu, Modern Management Made Simple.
[00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:06.480] You're listening to the Skeptic's Guide to the Universe.
[00:01:06.480 --> 00:01:09.360] Your escape to reality.
[00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:12.720] Hello and welcome to the Skeptic's Guide to the Universe.
[00:01:12.720 --> 00:01:16.800] Today is August 28th, 2024, and this is your host, Stephen Novella.
[00:01:16.800 --> 00:01:18.560] Joining me this week are Bob Novella.
[00:01:18.560 --> 00:01:19.200] Hey, everybody.
[00:01:19.200 --> 00:01:20.640] Kara Santa Maria.
[00:01:20.640 --> 00:01:21.120] Howdy.
[00:01:21.120 --> 00:01:22.080] Jay Novella.
[00:01:22.080 --> 00:01:24.480] Hey, guys, and Evan Bernstein.
[00:01:24.480 --> 00:01:25.840] Good evening, everyone.
[00:01:25.840 --> 00:01:28.640] This is episode 999.
[00:01:28.640 --> 00:01:28.960] Whoa.
[00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:30.240] No, no.
[00:01:30.960 --> 00:01:32.320] 99.
[00:01:32.960 --> 00:01:33.840] It's crazy.
[00:01:34.480 --> 00:01:35.360] It's amazing.
[00:01:35.360 --> 00:01:40.480] Next week, obviously, we will air our 1000th episode, which we just recorded in Chicago.
[00:01:40.720 --> 00:01:42.000] The odometer turns over.
[00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:43.280] Turns over.
[00:01:43.520 --> 00:01:51.760] It kind of breaks my nomenclature for the episodes because, you know, I do like 001, 002, and then build up from the...
[00:01:52.480 --> 00:01:53.040] Oh, no.
[00:01:53.040 --> 00:01:54.640] You've only been using three digits?
[00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:56.080] Yeah, are they going to be in order now?
[00:01:56.560 --> 00:01:58.000] Are we going to have a Y2K thing here?
[00:01:58.240 --> 00:03:32.800] It's an SGUK thing a thousand episodes that'll be plenty no way we'll never make it that far so yeah so now I have to start with what yeah with one thousand it's fine it won't matter to it won't matter to users because you know the episodes are dated and they're they're organized by date and I use the international dating sequence because that scans better you know that or that will if you organize it it'll be in order what's it year month day year month day oh okay yeah yeah if you use the American one then it doesn't work the American one confuses literally everybody yeah month day like month day year does not in anything wrong with that but it doesn't go in any reasonable order other than the fact we express ourselves when we speak we do but a lot of other places they don't they would say 28th of August they wouldn't say August 28th but it doesn't matter if you're saying out the month's name but if you go 822 or worse 89 then that's confusing right super confusing I get hit with that all the time so we need to eliminate the first 12 days of the year problem solve the first 12 days of the month I should say for me I mean I get I do it because it's what we do but like the chron it no not chronology what's the word I'm looking for like the order doesn't make sense because you either go small to big or big to small but what we do is we go medium to small to big that's weird I agree the international system makes more sense which is why that's what I use and the title names.
[00:03:32.800 --> 00:03:34.800] But yeah, you get used to it.
[00:03:34.800 --> 00:03:36.160] We're creatures of habit.
[00:03:36.480 --> 00:03:37.120] Indeed.
[00:03:37.120 --> 00:03:39.600] All right, well, yeah, we're going to get right to the show this year.
[00:03:40.240 --> 00:03:40.640] This year.
[00:03:40.880 --> 00:03:41.360] This episode.
[00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:42.480] We're going to get right to the show.
[00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:44.000] This month.
[00:03:44.680 --> 00:03:48.720] Kara, you're going to start us off with a what's the word?
[00:03:48.720 --> 00:03:49.280] I am.
[00:03:49.280 --> 00:04:00.640] So, this what's the word is courtesy of James from Asheville, North Carolina, in a particular county, which will become relevant very soon.
[00:04:00.640 --> 00:04:07.600] He brought up the word bunk or debunk as a word of interest.
[00:04:07.600 --> 00:04:09.200] And so I was like, okay, why?
[00:04:09.200 --> 00:04:14.720] Yeah, we use the word bunk a lot in the skeptical movement, but I don't know, how interesting could it be?
[00:04:14.720 --> 00:04:18.640] I love the etymology of this word, so let's get into it.
[00:04:18.640 --> 00:04:27.040] Obviously, when we think about the word bunk, not in the sense that we use it as skeptics, but a, you know, sleeping.
[00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:30.080] Okay, actually, it comes from the nautical term.
[00:04:30.080 --> 00:04:39.360] So it was a bunk was in a boat to begin with, in a vessel, and then it was in a railway car, and then it became something that was in like a fixed dwelling.
[00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:40.240] Talking about a bed?
[00:04:40.240 --> 00:04:43.280] Yeah, a bed, a sleeping berth, as they called it.
[00:04:43.280 --> 00:04:47.280] That came about in like the 1700s.
[00:04:47.280 --> 00:04:52.320] A bunk bed, it looks like, wasn't a thing until 1869.
[00:04:52.320 --> 00:04:55.360] The origins of that, they're a little weird.
[00:04:55.360 --> 00:05:05.920] They think maybe it was based on this like Scottish English word bunker, which was kind of an interesting local term for a seat or a bench.
[00:05:05.920 --> 00:05:07.280] Nobody really knows the origin.
[00:05:07.280 --> 00:05:11.040] Might be Scandinavian, might be, you know, Swedish, but they don't really know.
[00:05:11.040 --> 00:05:11.680] Okay, fine.
[00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:12.960] That's that word.
[00:05:12.960 --> 00:05:16.400] But when we talk about bunk in the skeptical sense, right?
[00:05:16.400 --> 00:05:17.920] Like nonsense, baloney.
[00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:19.200] Come on, give me some synonyms.
[00:05:19.200 --> 00:05:19.840] Hokum.
[00:05:19.840 --> 00:05:20.400] Hocum.
[00:05:20.400 --> 00:05:21.120] Balderdash.
[00:05:21.520 --> 00:05:22.000] Balderdash.
[00:05:22.080 --> 00:05:25.360] I was going to say haberdashery, but then I was like, that's hat-making.
[00:05:25.360 --> 00:05:26.400] That's not right.
[00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:27.360] Balderdash.
[00:05:27.360 --> 00:05:28.720] That's what I was looking for.
[00:05:28.720 --> 00:05:34.200] It has nothing to do with a bunk in which you sleep.
[00:05:34.840 --> 00:05:38.440] So, yeah, so I am going to read a quote.
[00:05:38.440 --> 00:05:42.200] This is quoted directly out of Merriam-Webster because they could say it better than I could.
[00:05:42.200 --> 00:05:43.080] Here we go.
[00:05:43.080 --> 00:05:46.920] You could almost say it was an act of Congress that brought this word into being.
[00:05:46.920 --> 00:05:57.560] Back in 1820, Felix Walker, who represented North Carolina's Bunkum County, that spelled B-U-N-C-O-M-B-E in the U.S.
[00:05:57.560 --> 00:06:07.720] House of Representatives, was determined that his voice be heard on his constituents' behalf, even though the matter up for debate was irrelevant to his district and he had little to contribute.
[00:06:07.720 --> 00:06:18.120] To the exasperation of his colleagues, he insisted on delivering a long and wearisome speech for bunkum, which turned into a speech full of bunkum.
[00:06:18.440 --> 00:06:28.680] And this long speech became a synonym at the time for meaningless political claptrap, and they changed the spelling to make it more phonetic.
[00:06:28.680 --> 00:06:36.920] So instead of B-U-N-C-O-M-B-E, it became bunkum, B-U-N-K-U-M, which was then shortened to bunk.
[00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:53.000] So this is an American invention from a politician who, as our friend from, our friend James from Asheville in Bunkum County, North Carolina said, he rode his horse all the way to DC to speak to Congress.
[00:06:53.000 --> 00:06:59.880] They'd been debating for weeks about Missouri joining the Union as a free state or slave state.
[00:06:59.880 --> 00:07:05.000] And he wanted his constituents back in western North Carolina to know he was on the job.
[00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:09.800] So he just kept talking about bunkum for like hours.
[00:07:09.800 --> 00:07:13.560] And eventually this became part of the American lexicon.
[00:07:13.560 --> 00:07:22.160] And then later, there was a book written by American journalist Edward Woodward called Bunk.
[00:07:22.160 --> 00:07:24.480] It was written in 1923.
[00:07:24.480 --> 00:07:28.320] And he actually coined the term debunk.
[00:07:28.320 --> 00:07:38.720] And he said this: quote, to keep the United States thoroughly debunked would require the continual services of half a million persons.
[00:07:38.720 --> 00:07:46.720] At the time, he was devoting a lot of time to debunking conspiracy theories and misinformation in the United States.
[00:07:46.720 --> 00:07:47.840] 100 years ago.
[00:07:47.840 --> 00:07:48.480] Right.
[00:07:48.480 --> 00:07:49.360] I love this.
[00:07:49.360 --> 00:07:53.120] Thank you so much for your suggestion, James.
[00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:54.000] What a colorful.
[00:07:54.240 --> 00:07:59.040] It's not often that we know, like, we really can pin down the etymology of a word.
[00:07:59.040 --> 00:08:01.040] It's always fun when there's a great story behind it.
[00:08:01.600 --> 00:08:02.560] Yep, love it.
[00:08:02.560 --> 00:08:02.880] All right.
[00:08:02.880 --> 00:08:03.600] Thanks, Kara.
[00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:08.080] Jay, yo, give us an update on the Starliner hubbub.
[00:08:08.080 --> 00:08:11.680] Yeah, this is, there's a lot to this, this whole thing that went down here.
[00:08:11.680 --> 00:08:23.040] So, you know, just as a quick recap, NASA and Boeing had to make a decision on what was going to happen regarding the two astronauts that got pretty much stranded on the ISS.
[00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:27.360] And those two astronauts are Sunita Williams and Butch Wilmore.
[00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:30.400] So right now, they're currently aboard the International Space Station.
[00:08:30.400 --> 00:08:32.160] They were only supposed to be there a week.
[00:08:32.160 --> 00:08:40.960] They launched on June 5th, 2024, aboard Boeing's Starliner capsule as part of this crew flight test that they've been doing.
[00:08:40.960 --> 00:08:44.560] This was the first time that Starliner was used for a crewed mission.
[00:08:44.560 --> 00:08:46.320] And issues arose.
[00:08:46.320 --> 00:08:51.440] Unfortunately, Starliner's propulsion system had some problems with the thrusters.
[00:08:51.440 --> 00:08:57.200] And NASA believes it's too risky to bring them home using that capsule.
[00:08:57.200 --> 00:09:06.040] So the details behind this are during Starliner's docking with the ISS, five of the 28 reaction control thrusters malfunctioned.
[00:09:06.920 --> 00:09:10.760] These thrusters are pretty important to orienting the ship.
[00:09:11.320 --> 00:09:12.200] Five of them?
[00:09:12.200 --> 00:09:12.840] Yeah.
[00:09:12.840 --> 00:09:20.360] And it was a significant concern for NASA because, you know, of course, they're like, you know, the safety of the astronauts is paramount.
[00:09:20.360 --> 00:09:26.520] And NASA and Boeing extended the astronauts' stay on the ISS to give them time to troubleshoot the problem.
[00:09:26.520 --> 00:09:29.480] And they have not been able to come up with a solution.
[00:09:29.960 --> 00:09:32.920] There's no solution to be figured out at this point.
[00:09:32.920 --> 00:09:38.600] So the Starliner already had challenges during its initial launch.
[00:09:38.600 --> 00:09:45.000] There was a helium leak, and the thruster malfunction during docking was considered to be very serious, right?
[00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:47.960] And of course, NASA is going to take this very seriously.
[00:09:47.960 --> 00:09:55.160] They decided to return Williams and Wilmore to Earth no earlier than February 2025.
[00:09:55.160 --> 00:09:58.920] And they've also decided that they're going to use a SpaceX Dragon capsule.
[00:09:58.920 --> 00:10:05.240] And the Dragon capsule that they're going to use is part of SpaceX's Crew-9 mission.
[00:10:05.240 --> 00:10:12.120] And this mission will now be modified to accommodate the two astronauts' return back to Earth.
[00:10:12.120 --> 00:10:18.120] So what they're doing is they're modifying the layout of the Dragon capsule.
[00:10:18.120 --> 00:10:19.640] It'll have more cargo space.
[00:10:19.640 --> 00:10:21.960] There'll be space for personal items.
[00:10:22.360 --> 00:10:33.240] And then the astronauts have to use the Dragon-specific spacesuits, which I guess work in tandem with the way that their module was manufactured and designed.
[00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:42.120] The Crew-9 mission is going to launch with only two crew members going up, which will create the space for Williams and Wilmore to go back home on the return trip.
[00:10:42.120 --> 00:10:51.600] Now, NASA and Boeing plan to return the Starliner capsule to Earth without a crew in it on September in September of 2024.
[00:10:51.600 --> 00:10:53.040] And of course, I expected this.
[00:10:53.040 --> 00:10:54.800] I didn't know how long they were going to leave it up there.
[00:10:54.800 --> 00:10:57.360] You know, at some point, they have to go, look, we can't fix it up there.
[00:10:57.360 --> 00:11:00.000] We just got to bring it down and hope for the best.
[00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:03.200] So, of course, you know, we're hoping that the capsule does make it back.
[00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:07.040] They're going to land it at White Sands Space Harbor in New Mexico.
[00:11:07.040 --> 00:11:19.280] And the uncrewed descent is going to by itself be classified as an uncrewed test flight because, in essence, they are testing to see what happens when some of these engines are not functioning.
[00:11:19.280 --> 00:11:28.480] And they're going to also modify the separation technique to a more simplified one that will hopefully work with the limited engines that they have.
[00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:43.040] And NASA Administrator Bill Nelson said that the decision to prioritize a safety was influenced by the past tragedies that NASA went through, which include the Challenger and the Columbia Space Shuttle accidents that took place.
[00:11:43.040 --> 00:11:47.280] In those two cases, concerns were brought up, but they were not handled properly, right?
[00:11:47.280 --> 00:11:52.000] They didn't address the issues, and there's too much red tape and blah, blah, blah.
[00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:52.720] You know what I mean?
[00:11:52.720 --> 00:12:04.640] So, big, expensive government agencies like NASA, you know, back then when these accidents were happening, like, just didn't have the internal systems to handle, you know, this type of thing.
[00:12:04.640 --> 00:12:06.640] So, NASA has changed their culture.
[00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:17.680] They've changed the way that they handle these situations, and their new culture encourages transparency, open communication, directly to avoid repeating mistakes that they've made in the past.
[00:12:17.680 --> 00:12:21.840] This is exactly the kind of changes that we want to hear, of course.
[00:12:22.160 --> 00:12:24.560] So, yeah, everybody's disappointed.
[00:12:24.560 --> 00:12:29.960] You know, people that work at Boeing are disappointed that they couldn't complete the crew flight test.
[00:12:29.600 --> 00:12:35.960] And NASA and Boeing, though, are recommitting to further understanding what happened, resolving the issues.
[00:12:36.280 --> 00:12:41.080] They want to get the Starliners thrusters completely fixed and get them back in the game.
[00:12:41.080 --> 00:12:46.280] So, NASA is remaining optimistic about the future of Starliner and the Starliner program.
[00:12:46.280 --> 00:12:53.960] And, of course, NASA is smart enough to know that they want to have multiple crewed flight options for the ISS, right?
[00:12:53.960 --> 00:13:05.880] They don't want Boeing to drop out because they want them to compete with SpaceX and for them to both continue to improve their technology for exactly reasons like this, right?
[00:13:05.880 --> 00:13:10.600] We don't have a command module or anything that we could send up that can bring them home right now.
[00:13:10.600 --> 00:13:12.360] There just isn't the option.
[00:13:12.360 --> 00:13:19.160] And luckily, they could stay up in the ISS and it really won't put any strain on anything going on up there.
[00:13:19.160 --> 00:13:25.960] So, they're going to encourage Boeing to continue to invest time and money into this to make their equipment work properly.
[00:13:25.960 --> 00:13:35.160] Now, the decision to keep the astronauts on the ISS until February 2025 means that they have this really long extended stay of about eight months.
[00:13:35.160 --> 00:13:43.720] And NASA's ISS program manager, Dana Weigel, indicated that the station operations and the supply and everything, it's not under strain.
[00:13:43.720 --> 00:13:44.840] Like I said, it's all good.
[00:13:44.840 --> 00:13:45.640] They can handle it.
[00:13:45.640 --> 00:13:47.720] They have, you know, they have plenty of backup.
[00:13:47.720 --> 00:13:49.240] And there's a few other things I looked up here.
[00:13:49.240 --> 00:13:51.320] I think there's some obvious questions here.
[00:13:51.320 --> 00:13:55.240] Why couldn't they use another space capsule or a Soyuz capsule?
[00:13:55.240 --> 00:13:56.520] Like, what's happening?
[00:13:57.080 --> 00:13:59.560] And the answer is kind of complicated.
[00:13:59.800 --> 00:14:07.640] You know, Boeing, Starliner, and SpaceX Dragon capsules are specifically designed to interface with NASA's system.
[00:14:07.640 --> 00:14:11.720] You know, the ISS docking ports and everything are configured a particular way.
[00:14:11.720 --> 00:14:15.280] You know, it's all very, very much well planned out.
[00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:17.360] They know exactly how these things fit together and everything.
[00:14:17.520 --> 00:14:25.680] Now, to put it very plainly, the Russian spacecraft, like the Soyuz command module, they just simply have different designs for docking mechanisms.
[00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:27.840] The Soyuz goes to the ISS all the time.
[00:14:27.840 --> 00:14:30.640] Yeah, but they have to make it compatible.
[00:14:30.640 --> 00:14:41.120] And I guess the one that they could use, if they were going to take one of their command modules, they'd have to pull it off of another program that it's designed for that isn't designed to connect to the space shuttle.
[00:14:41.440 --> 00:14:42.720] And that's a big deal.
[00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:47.840] And they, so NASA and Roscosmos always prioritize their missions first.
[00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:49.520] So, yes, they want to help each other.
[00:14:49.520 --> 00:14:51.680] Yes, we work in coordination with them.
[00:14:51.680 --> 00:14:58.160] Of course, we're lucky outside of all the crazy politics that are happening, like you know, these two space agencies, they work with each other.
[00:14:58.160 --> 00:15:02.080] But they just didn't have the spacecraft to help them.
[00:15:02.080 --> 00:15:05.120] There are political considerations that do come into play.
[00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:07.600] There's and also safety concerns and everything.
[00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:14.560] NASA just really wanted to use the SpaceX Dragon capsule because they know that they have confidence in it and it's safe and reliable.
[00:15:14.720 --> 00:15:20.640] Now, there's consequences for Boeing as well, which I would think makes perfect sense here.
[00:15:20.640 --> 00:15:25.440] Internally, first, there's disappointment and a sense of urgency to resolve the problems, right?
[00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:33.840] People that work at Boeing, Boeing engineers, they've been working really hard to figure it out, understand everything, and fix these thrusters.
[00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:38.160] They're conducting ground tests, they're doing simulations to replicate the conditions.
[00:15:38.640 --> 00:15:40.400] They're doing everything that they can.
[00:15:40.400 --> 00:15:46.800] But it was a black eye for them, and they have lost street cred now, which is bad.
[00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:50.480] Yeah, this is, but it didn't happen in a vacuum.
[00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:53.040] We've been losing faith in Boeing for a long time.
[00:15:53.040 --> 00:15:55.280] This was another death by a thousand paper.
[00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:55.920] Oh, of course.
[00:15:55.920 --> 00:15:59.520] I mean, this is all part of the bigger thing that's happening with them.
[00:15:59.520 --> 00:15:59.960] Yeah.
[00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:06.200] And it's just another crappy layer to this situation that Boeing is going through.
[00:16:06.520 --> 00:16:09.480] You know, but like I said, NASA is like, okay, you're going to be fine.
[00:16:09.480 --> 00:16:10.360] Work it through.
[00:16:10.360 --> 00:16:15.400] You know, build this thing and make it work so we can count on you in the future.
[00:16:15.560 --> 00:16:18.040] And, you know, they're giving them good money to do it.
[00:16:18.040 --> 00:16:23.480] But, you know, it's not crystal clear what's going to happen with Boeing and Starliner right now.
[00:16:23.480 --> 00:16:28.680] And then another thing I wanted to clarify was the astronaut pay hubbub.
[00:16:28.680 --> 00:16:30.520] Have you guys been hearing like the chatter online?
[00:16:31.240 --> 00:16:32.680] Are they going to get more money?
[00:16:32.840 --> 00:16:36.040] You know, do they give them millions of dollars if they get stuck on the ice?
[00:16:36.840 --> 00:16:40.200] Oh, I'm sure this is such a lucrative job for an astronaut.
[00:16:40.360 --> 00:16:41.560] Well, I have the details, guys.
[00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:43.160] I got it all.
[00:16:43.160 --> 00:16:44.280] I got it all for you.
[00:16:44.280 --> 00:16:44.680] Cool.
[00:16:44.680 --> 00:16:45.160] All right.
[00:16:45.160 --> 00:16:51.000] So, astronauts who end up having to stay longer on the International Space Station or whatever, right?
[00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:55.080] Like, does anything like this due to unforeseen circumstances?
[00:16:55.080 --> 00:16:57.320] They already have clauses in their contract.
[00:16:57.320 --> 00:16:59.160] It says suck it up.
[00:16:59.160 --> 00:17:04.440] They do not receive special or additional pay for being stranded.
[00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:05.480] Now, keep this in mind.
[00:17:05.480 --> 00:17:07.400] They're on the bankroll.
[00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:09.400] They are being paid a salary, right?
[00:17:09.400 --> 00:17:10.120] They get money.
[00:17:10.440 --> 00:17:11.000] They're employees.
[00:17:11.320 --> 00:17:20.680] Whether they're in space or on the ground, they got the astronauts busy working, you know, public appearances, crafting new technology, everything.
[00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:22.600] These people are crazy busy.
[00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:26.280] Yeah, but your life is infinitely harder in space.
[00:17:26.280 --> 00:17:28.920] I know, I know, but there are government employees.
[00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:35.240] Most of them are government employees, and they receive allowances and benefits related to their work in space.
[00:17:35.240 --> 00:17:43.000] Like, you know, there is some things that they'll get other money depending on the circumstance of them being in outer space.
[00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:49.040] But it's not, you know, like hazard duty could come in, post-mission bonuses can come into play, stuff like that.
[00:17:44.840 --> 00:17:51.120] But it isn't like this major change.
[00:17:51.600 --> 00:17:54.320] It's like a regular job in a lot of ways, all right?
[00:17:54.320 --> 00:17:58.880] But I wonder if there's some sort of insurance policy that they can, because I don't know.
[00:17:58.880 --> 00:18:00.320] Can you imagine?
[00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:02.080] Imagine for a second.
[00:18:02.080 --> 00:18:05.120] You have a business trip to Milwaukee for a week.
[00:18:05.120 --> 00:18:05.680] Yeah, yep.
[00:18:05.680 --> 00:18:09.680] And then you get stuck there for eight months away from your family.
[00:18:09.920 --> 00:18:11.920] But it is part of this job, right?
[00:18:11.920 --> 00:18:12.080] Yeah.
[00:18:12.320 --> 00:18:19.920] So while their situation might be unique, but it doesn't automatically trigger extra pay beyond the standard allowances for extended missions.
[00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:21.200] And that's just the way it works.
[00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:22.560] And check it out.
[00:18:22.560 --> 00:18:23.280] Here we go.
[00:18:23.600 --> 00:18:30.160] They are considered to be GS-12 to GS-14 pay grades, right?
[00:18:30.560 --> 00:18:31.360] What happened to 13?
[00:18:31.600 --> 00:18:32.080] No.
[00:18:33.120 --> 00:18:33.760] 12 to 14.
[00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:34.480] Oh, okay.
[00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:35.680] I thought they were being superstitious.
[00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:39.840] A GS12 starting salary, just guess what it is.
[00:18:39.840 --> 00:18:40.640] GS12.
[00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:42.080] $40,000 a year.
[00:18:42.080 --> 00:18:43.040] Astronaut pay, right?
[00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:43.840] This is astronaut pay.
[00:18:44.320 --> 00:18:45.120] $90,000 a year.
[00:18:45.280 --> 00:18:47.200] $175,000.
[00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:48.800] Starting pay, $86,000 a year.
[00:18:48.800 --> 00:18:49.440] Yeah, that's what I thought.
[00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:50.400] $86,000.
[00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:55.600] GS13, typically between $102,000 and $120,000 annually.
[00:18:55.600 --> 00:19:00.320] And then when you get to the GS-14, this is when the big bucks start rolling in.
[00:19:01.040 --> 00:19:03.440] They go from $120,000 to $160,000.
[00:19:03.440 --> 00:19:06.560] $160,000, like for the really seasoned people.
[00:19:06.560 --> 00:19:11.280] Now, these salaries don't include additional allowances and benefits that astronauts might receive.
[00:19:11.280 --> 00:19:14.960] Like I said, there's housing allowances and some hazard pay duty.
[00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:15.840] You know, there's little things.
[00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:17.040] Free air sick bags.
[00:19:17.360 --> 00:19:17.920] Yeah.
[00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:19.680] But they receive their salary.
[00:19:19.680 --> 00:19:22.960] Like I said, even when they're on the ground, it's a full-time gig.
[00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:27.280] And I can't help but think in the back of my mind, NASA's like, what are you complaining about?
[00:19:27.280 --> 00:19:31.880] You're an astronaut and you get to astralize yourself in the ISS, right?
[00:19:31.880 --> 00:19:34.520] You get to astro all you want for eight months.
[00:19:29.840 --> 00:19:37.160] Yeah, but the truth is, that is not what NASA's thinking.
[00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:43.160] And the reason I know this is because there have been some really beautiful documentaries made about the mental health of astronauts.
[00:19:43.400 --> 00:19:48.280] NASA is very concerned about these individuals' mental health.
[00:19:48.280 --> 00:19:49.240] I totally agree, Karen.
[00:19:49.480 --> 00:19:51.000] I'm actually joking around.
[00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:52.840] The point is, they're there.
[00:19:52.840 --> 00:19:54.040] It's their job.
[00:19:54.040 --> 00:19:57.720] They know that this is the way it works because what could NASA do?
[00:19:57.720 --> 00:20:02.760] And unfortunately, I would have liked to have known, like, hey, if something like this happens, we give you 500 grand.
[00:20:02.760 --> 00:20:06.360] You know, like, think about the billions of dollars that the government's spending.
[00:20:06.360 --> 00:20:09.160] And I told my wife, this was really impactful for me, right?
[00:20:09.160 --> 00:20:10.120] I'm reading about this.
[00:20:10.120 --> 00:20:10.840] I'm up to date.
[00:20:10.840 --> 00:20:14.440] I'm constantly reading all this stuff because I love all the space news, right?
[00:20:14.760 --> 00:20:17.160] So finally, I'm like, I better tell my wife about this.
[00:20:17.160 --> 00:20:18.280] I know she probably hasn't read it.
[00:20:18.280 --> 00:20:22.360] So I tell her, hey, astronauts went up for a mission to the ISS and they got stuck up there.
[00:20:22.520 --> 00:20:23.880] Guess how long they got to stay now?
[00:20:24.360 --> 00:20:25.800] They don't have a spacecraft to bring them down.
[00:20:25.800 --> 00:20:26.520] She's like, what?
[00:20:26.520 --> 00:20:27.480] A couple more weeks?
[00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:29.240] I'm like, no, it's going to be like eight months.
[00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:31.320] She almost started crying.
[00:20:31.320 --> 00:20:31.720] Yeah.
[00:20:31.720 --> 00:20:32.520] It's really sad.
[00:20:32.760 --> 00:20:34.360] And she got angry.
[00:20:34.360 --> 00:20:35.800] She's like, I can't believe it.
[00:20:35.800 --> 00:20:37.880] Birthdays are going to happen without them.
[00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:40.520] There might be deaths in the family.
[00:20:40.520 --> 00:20:41.800] There might be weddings in the family.
[00:20:42.120 --> 00:20:43.400] She was going for the whole.
[00:20:43.560 --> 00:20:44.520] They cast their vote.
[00:20:44.840 --> 00:20:45.000] Yeah.
[00:20:45.240 --> 00:20:47.480] Wait, they miss Halloween.
[00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:50.120] Wait, this is a real people.
[00:20:50.360 --> 00:20:51.560] Fire up every shuttle we have.
[00:20:51.560 --> 00:20:52.040] Let's go get it.
[00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:54.120] Bob, have you had Halloween on the ISS though?
[00:20:54.280 --> 00:20:56.120] Ooh, but I wouldn't have brought anything with me.
[00:20:56.120 --> 00:20:57.880] I wouldn't have anticipated it.
[00:20:57.880 --> 00:20:59.800] So here's another wrinkle, though, Jay.
[00:20:59.800 --> 00:21:01.240] I don't think you mentioned is that.
[00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:14.440] So, yes, they have to wait and for the next shuttle, for the next capsule to come down, which is the SpaceX Dragon capsule, but they're bumping two people from that capsule who have to stay longer, too.
[00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:16.000] So, this is like a domino effect.
[00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:25.520] Yeah, you know, I don't know when they're gonna catch up, you know, but they may have to plan an extra mission to the ISS to sort of get caught up at the crew exchange.
[00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:32.800] And that's the problem because, again, they don't have a bunch of command modules like ready to go for emergencies and stuff.
[00:21:32.800 --> 00:21:33.680] We're not there yet.
[00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:38.240] We're, you know, we're literally like the Starliner was just cleared.
[00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:38.960] Do you know what I mean?
[00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:41.920] Like, it's like this stuff is always like very last minute.
[00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:53.440] But it does show that when you know, NASA basically decided that they were going to contract with two companies to make redundant crewed capsule systems, and that was a good choice.
[00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:54.640] Absolutely good.
[00:21:54.960 --> 00:21:57.520] Imagine if Starliner were our only capsule.
[00:21:57.520 --> 00:21:59.920] Imagine how foobar that would be.
[00:21:59.920 --> 00:22:00.480] I totally agree.
[00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:01.680] That's really scary.
[00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:02.960] And look, if you think we should have three.
[00:22:03.120 --> 00:22:04.400] I think it's the culture.
[00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:05.520] Like, let's be honest.
[00:22:05.520 --> 00:22:09.920] Like, the NASA culture is this really interesting government.
[00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:17.680] Like, now it's government-private, but a lot of astronauts were either scientists or pilots.
[00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:18.000] Yes.
[00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:24.560] NASA is not the military, but I would not be surprised if culturally you saw some similarities.
[00:22:24.560 --> 00:22:28.160] When these astronauts were probably told, I have some bad news.
[00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:32.240] I can only imagine that their response was, I will serve in the best way that I can.
[00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:35.360] This is, you know, I want to be here.
[00:22:35.360 --> 00:22:36.720] I want to be doing this.
[00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:39.760] And the two people that got bumped, I'm sure they weren't petty about it.
[00:22:39.760 --> 00:22:42.080] I'm sure they were like, that is how this goes.
[00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:43.920] And I think that's something to really honor.
[00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:44.800] It is part of the job.
[00:22:44.800 --> 00:22:50.320] What I worry about is the impact on their families, all the things back home that they're not able to attend to.
[00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:56.800] I just can't imagine that there wouldn't be some sort of insurance policy or some sort of, it's not about their paycheck.
[00:22:56.800 --> 00:23:18.760] It's about all of the downstream things that this unforeseen absence is costing them yeah but military families are i think they're used to that as well i think so too yeah it's a big part of yeah it's it's a sacrifice for sure Well, we hope it all turns out well, but yeah, it was disappointing that they had to basically scrub the star laner return.
[00:23:18.760 --> 00:23:29.000] Guys, I want to talk about a topic many of us are very familiar with, role-playing and role-playing games, but from a therapeutic perspective.
[00:23:29.320 --> 00:23:34.760] Now, this is an interesting timing because this is the 50th anniversary of Dungeons and Dragons.
[00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:38.360] And I don't know if you guys saw the commemorative stamps.
[00:23:38.680 --> 00:23:39.080] Yes.
[00:23:39.400 --> 00:23:39.800] Oh, yes.
[00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:42.680] Liz Bots are so cool.
[00:23:42.680 --> 00:23:43.800] And they're big.
[00:23:43.800 --> 00:23:44.680] Don't use them.
[00:23:44.680 --> 00:23:45.880] Yeah, they're pretty.
[00:23:46.120 --> 00:23:46.920] I like them.
[00:23:46.920 --> 00:23:48.760] So there's a couple of things going on here.
[00:23:48.760 --> 00:23:59.640] One is the arc that tabletop role-playing games and Dungeons and Dragons DD in particular has taken in our culture over the last 50 years.
[00:23:59.640 --> 00:24:07.800] And also just the concept of using role-playing for therapy, for counseling, or for part of, you know, for therapeutic purposes.
[00:24:08.040 --> 00:24:19.240] This is inspired by our recent study, which I blogged about today, or which I blogged about yesterday, which looked at the use of role-playing games to help Autistic people.
[00:24:19.240 --> 00:24:20.520] But let's back up.
[00:24:20.520 --> 00:24:21.720] We'll get to that in a moment.
[00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:36.520] So you guys remember, Kara, this is probably before your time when you weren't paying too much attention to it, but back in like the late 70s, early 80s, I know like most of us started tabletopping, DD and tabletop role-playing had a massive stigma associated with it.
[00:24:36.520 --> 00:24:37.240] Oh my God.
[00:24:37.720 --> 00:24:39.000] Devil worship.
[00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:40.600] Well, there was, and there was two angles.
[00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:42.200] There were two aspects to that stigma.
[00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:49.120] One was this is the domain of geeks and nerds and like extreme geeks.
[00:24:49.360 --> 00:24:50.000] You know what I mean?
[00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:55.120] Like these are, and like the gratuitous joke is that these are people who can't get girlfriends, right?
[00:24:55.120 --> 00:24:57.520] I mean, that stigma still exists.
[00:24:57.520 --> 00:24:58.720] It's just maybe not as blatant.
[00:24:59.520 --> 00:25:00.000] It does.
[00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:03.680] I agree, but it's now it's way less in my experience.
[00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:07.840] It's often loving and not as cutting as it used to be.
[00:25:07.840 --> 00:25:11.360] But it was like a serious, you know, cut.
[00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:18.000] Yeah, but I think if you ask any high school kid who's really like, they probably still get shit for it.
[00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:18.480] Yeah.
[00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:21.040] They're probably still bullied for that, which is sad.
[00:25:21.040 --> 00:25:22.480] Yeah, I mean, it's really sad.
[00:25:23.200 --> 00:25:25.600] There's still different subcultures in school, absolutely.
[00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:27.920] I don't think this is.
[00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:30.960] I don't think geek culture is as much on the fringe as it used to be.
[00:25:31.120 --> 00:25:35.120] And when it was burgeoning, right, it was all everything was new about it.
[00:25:36.320 --> 00:25:39.680] It hadn't yet achieved sort of an acceptance level at all.
[00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:41.360] It was considered totally fringe.
[00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:49.440] And the other angle is what Bob brought up is that it was tied to the satanic panic of the 80s.
[00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:49.760] Oh, yes.
[00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:52.720] The fundamentalists went after it big time.
[00:25:52.720 --> 00:26:15.280] And then even beyond that, even in our town in Connecticut, there was a discussion on the school board, which we knew about because our father was on the school board, to ban it on school grounds because it was thought to be psychologically risky for students because there was, again, all these panic stories about it being tied to murder and suicide and all kinds of stuff.
[00:26:15.280 --> 00:26:16.160] Like ridiculous.
[00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:17.520] I know.
[00:26:17.760 --> 00:26:18.400] Good for you.
[00:26:18.560 --> 00:26:19.160] I know.
[00:26:19.160 --> 00:26:21.920] It's the opposite, but it was new and weird.
[00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:28.320] And so they're afraid, oh, these kids are going to act out their role-playing in real life or whatever.
[00:26:28.360 --> 00:26:32.600] You know, they're going to get almost like a cult kind of a thing.
[00:26:29.840 --> 00:26:37.000] But it was just pure fear of the unknown and the unfamiliar.
[00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:39.640] It really was not based upon anything.
[00:26:39.640 --> 00:26:51.080] And of course, the media hypes up the anecdotes, you know, stories of like individual kids who committed suicide or died by suicide and happened to be, happened to play DD, right?
[00:26:51.080 --> 00:26:55.960] And then the DD gets to blame for it, even though they had mental illness and depression, et cetera.
[00:26:55.960 --> 00:26:57.960] And or they were bullied relentlessly.
[00:26:57.960 --> 00:26:58.280] Yes.
[00:26:58.280 --> 00:26:58.440] Right.
[00:26:58.600 --> 00:26:59.080] So many factors.
[00:26:59.800 --> 00:26:59.960] Right.
[00:26:59.960 --> 00:27:02.280] The confounding factors are enormous.
[00:27:02.280 --> 00:27:04.360] But now I think things are very different.
[00:27:04.360 --> 00:27:07.480] I think mainly because it's one, it's just familiarity.
[00:27:07.480 --> 00:27:15.160] People realize it's not like satanic worship and it's not some kind of horrible cultural, you know, blight.
[00:27:15.160 --> 00:27:19.800] But also, I think that many adults today played when they were kids.
[00:27:19.800 --> 00:27:23.720] And so we know sort of firsthand that it's like just a game.
[00:27:24.280 --> 00:27:27.320] It's a completely wholesome activity.
[00:27:27.320 --> 00:27:37.400] Parallel to this, you know, role-playing obviously has existed for a long time as a one sub-genre of quote-unquote acting.
[00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:42.120] It's not acting, but it's like you have improv and role play and stage acting and whatever.
[00:27:42.120 --> 00:27:44.200] It's like one of those things.
[00:27:44.200 --> 00:27:49.720] But also really interesting is that it's been looked at for its therapeutic potential.
[00:27:49.720 --> 00:28:03.640] And even outside of gaming, just like role-playing in the context of you're with your therapist and you can say, okay, we're going to role-play whatever, like you doing what you're afraid of or talking to.
[00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:06.280] Or like a gestalt empty chair technique or something.
[00:28:06.680 --> 00:28:10.520] Yeah, the empty chair, you're talking to your father about whatever, how you feel about them.
[00:28:10.520 --> 00:28:11.400] Or you're you going to.
[00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:16.640] And so, and the therapeutic potential has been long recognized.
[00:28:16.960 --> 00:28:35.920] And the consensus is that in the therapy setting, it could help to teach new skills, could be used, incorporated into cognitive behavioral therapy, can identify negative patterns of behavior, can build confidence, and could also even be used to treat trauma.
[00:28:35.920 --> 00:28:38.800] So these are all pretty well-established applications.
[00:28:38.800 --> 00:28:40.800] And it improves your Thacko, too.
[00:28:40.800 --> 00:28:41.200] Absolutely.
[00:28:41.600 --> 00:28:42.720] That's an inside joke.
[00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:44.480] To hit AC0.
[00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:45.680] Thank you, Bob.
[00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:59.280] The recent study was interesting because not only was it looking at role-playing in a therapeutic context, it was specifically looking at playing DD as the form of role-playing.
[00:28:59.280 --> 00:29:03.360] And what they had the, this was more of a qualitative study.
[00:29:03.360 --> 00:29:18.720] So they basically had subjects who were kids with autism, and they had them engage in a role-playing game DM'd by one of the study authors for six weeks.
[00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:21.840] And then they interviewed them before, during, and after the process.
[00:29:21.840 --> 00:29:28.480] And again, this is sort of the qualitative aspect of the study to see how did they react to it, what they think about it.
[00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:49.440] And they found, again, not surprising, that the subjects felt that it helped them build confidence in social situations, that they gave them skills that they could apply to their daily lives, that it was a very comfortable setting in which they could explore aspects of their personality.
[00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:51.680] So, which again, not surprising.
[00:29:52.160 --> 00:30:00.000] The other aspect of the study is that it was partly exploring some common misconceptions about autism.
[00:30:00.600 --> 00:30:08.040] That a lot of people think that autistic people are asocial or they're not very socially motivated.
[00:30:08.040 --> 00:30:10.120] But that's actually not universally true.
[00:30:10.120 --> 00:30:13.320] It's actually not, I think, the most common manifestation.
[00:30:13.320 --> 00:30:17.080] In fact, they often are highly socially motivated.
[00:30:17.080 --> 00:30:25.000] It's just that social interactions can be exhausting for them, you know, because they don't have the casual sort of comfort or skill with it.
[00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:26.920] Yeah, and sometimes perplexing as well.
[00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:27.320] Yeah, yeah.
[00:30:28.440 --> 00:30:32.440] It's a very highly cognitively demanding sort of prospect for them.
[00:30:32.440 --> 00:30:44.200] This was a way to say, all right, you know, you're in a social situation, which they love, and the emotional and cognitive load is dramatically decreased because anything you do is fine.
[00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:52.840] The stakes are a lot lower, and you get to have intense social interaction in a safe environment, right?
[00:30:52.840 --> 00:30:53.640] And they loved it.
[00:30:54.200 --> 00:30:56.760] They thought it was a very, very positive experience.
[00:30:56.760 --> 00:31:15.800] So that, to me, like represented the full arc of role-playing and DD in particular, from the stigma, fearful way it was looked at in the 70s and 80s to now where it's kind of accepted as just another activity that some people do.
[00:31:15.800 --> 00:31:20.600] Sure, maybe it's a little nerdy, but it's wonderful and it's celebrated in a lot of things.
[00:31:20.600 --> 00:31:24.040] Like if you guys all, I know we all watched Stranger Things, which is great.
[00:31:24.600 --> 00:31:25.640] Yeah, right, yeah, they did.
[00:31:25.640 --> 00:31:32.760] Yeah, the fact that the kids all played DD was looked upon as a very informative in a very positive light in that storytelling.
[00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:41.480] You know, like giving the kids confidence and skills that they were able to utilize, you know, when facing a very challenging situation.
[00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:46.240] And also, I think it emphasized the bonding aspects of it.
[00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:55.840] You know, it's a very intensely social interaction, which is very helpful for people who may have difficulty making social connections.
[00:31:56.240 --> 00:31:58.560] It's helpful for any children, honestly.
[00:31:58.720 --> 00:32:02.480] Absolutely, but especially so, you know, for those who might be more, a little bit more challenged.
[00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:11.360] And so I know at least three of us on the show have pretty extensive experience with role-playing, both tabletopping and live-action role-playing, LARPing.
[00:32:11.600 --> 00:32:17.520] You know, Jay and Evan, how does this fit with your experiences personally?
[00:32:17.520 --> 00:32:23.440] My role-playing from all the way back has always been pretty intimate with my friends.
[00:32:23.680 --> 00:32:25.040] It's a consistent thing.
[00:32:25.040 --> 00:32:30.240] Like we would do it either every week or as we get older, you know, it turns into more like once every few weeks or a month.
[00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:32.240] You get together with the same people.
[00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:38.320] The adult version has been a key factor in my socializing with my friends.
[00:32:38.320 --> 00:32:41.120] And I got to tell you, it's an amazing thing to do.
[00:32:41.120 --> 00:32:49.040] Like, you know, you go to a movie and you sit down, you watch the movie and you might whisper to each other and then you go back and you might go to a diner afterwards and talk about it or whatever.
[00:32:49.040 --> 00:33:05.040] But being in a room with your friends for like 10 hours, you know, at your house and you go through this complete spectrum of emotion over and over and over again, where things get really intense and they get interesting and then there's laughing infused throughout the whole thing.
[00:33:05.040 --> 00:33:24.960] And of all the social interactions that I have had in my life, for some reason, tabletop, you know, role-playing games is just maximally enjoyable and restorative to me in a way that nothing really comes close to, other than maybe doing like, if I were to play volleyball with a bunch of people, I feel like that would be a similar thing.
[00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:28.400] I just get, it's an invigorating thing, though, to experience for you.
[00:33:28.480 --> 00:33:31.000] Do you think you've learned any skills through doing it?
[00:33:31.240 --> 00:33:44.840] I mean, my social skills, I think, are dramatically better because of all the odd scenarios that I've had to live through in these games and, like, you know, having to deal with all these different types of situations and, you know, troubleshooting, problem-solving, essentially, a lot of it.
[00:33:44.840 --> 00:33:48.840] Yeah, a lot of teamwork, a lot of tactical, you know, BRB or puzzle-solving problems.
[00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:51.160] Like, I'll give you an example for me and Steve, right?
[00:33:51.160 --> 00:33:59.480] When Steve and I created the LARP for this, it was like a thing that was happening down where George lives, right?
[00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:01.000] In Bethlehem, yeah.
[00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:01.720] Yeah, in Bethlehem.
[00:34:01.720 --> 00:34:03.480] I think we were at the Steel Stacks, was it?
[00:34:03.480 --> 00:34:04.520] I can't remember exactly where we were.
[00:34:04.680 --> 00:34:05.000] Ice House.
[00:34:05.080 --> 00:34:05.640] The Ice House, rather.
[00:34:05.720 --> 00:34:06.760] Ice House, right?
[00:34:07.080 --> 00:34:14.040] And we wrote this whole module for them and we watched them in person interact with each other and troubleshoot.
[00:34:14.040 --> 00:34:17.560] And I remember saying to Steve, this is nothing to us.
[00:34:17.560 --> 00:34:29.160] Like these problems that they're dealing with and the way that they're mounting those problems and just watching like a hundred people do this, like with all of our experience, we know how to hit the ground running.
[00:34:29.400 --> 00:34:34.200] My troubleshooting skills, I think, are way better than they ever would have been.
[00:34:34.920 --> 00:34:46.680] Also, thinking out of the box and coming up with solutions and all that stuff, like, you know, when you're playing these games, it, man, it's so little about all the stupid things that people think about it.
[00:34:46.680 --> 00:34:58.040] Like, if you're playing with people, you know, adults and they're, you know, you're playing an adult game here, I'm faced with really serious things that I have to troubleshoot and think about, and also emotional things that you have to work through.
[00:34:58.760 --> 00:35:06.440] If I made a list of the people I'm still friends with from my childhood, if I go back, my oldest, dearest friends, we all have one thing in common.
[00:35:06.440 --> 00:35:07.880] And it is Dungeons and Dragons.
[00:35:07.880 --> 00:35:10.200] It is role-playing, without a doubt.
[00:35:10.200 --> 00:35:16.560] Also, at a time in my life when I was moving around the country, you know, it started off in the northeast, but for various reasons, my family moved.
[00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:18.000] We lived in Texas for a while.
[00:35:14.680 --> 00:35:19.120] We lived in Colorado for a while.
[00:35:19.200 --> 00:35:23.600] This was all when I was 10, 11, 12 years old.
[00:35:23.600 --> 00:35:31.520] That was my way of getting in and making quick friends in the new environments that I found myself in.
[00:35:31.520 --> 00:35:38.080] And I was able to just kind of immediately come to the table and be part of that game community.
[00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:45.440] So there's no doubt about it that it served me very well in those early formative years.
[00:35:46.320 --> 00:35:47.680] And like I said, continues to be.
[00:35:47.680 --> 00:35:52.640] I'm still, of all the people I'm still good friends with for the longest amount of time in my life, they're all role players.
[00:35:52.720 --> 00:35:54.960] Well, Evan, we met you and Perry through role-playing.
[00:35:54.960 --> 00:35:55.440] Yeah.
[00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:56.000] That's right.
[00:35:56.000 --> 00:35:56.400] Yep.
[00:35:56.400 --> 00:35:56.880] Yep.
[00:35:56.880 --> 00:36:04.960] And you know, Ev, when we were LARPing together and we didn't really know each other, but like you, you know, in-game, like we meet you and you're like, we were like, hey, we really like this guy.
[00:36:04.960 --> 00:36:07.360] You know, Steve and I are talking and we're like, this guy's cool.
[00:36:07.360 --> 00:36:10.400] Like we want to, let's see if he wants to like hang out with us.
[00:36:10.400 --> 00:36:12.400] It's like real, you know, almost like real life.
[00:36:12.400 --> 00:36:16.800] You know, we're like inviting you in the game as our characters to join us.
[00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:22.000] And Evan, the weird thing is, is our relationship started more in-game than in real life.
[00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:26.400] And I remember getting to actually know who you are months later.
[00:36:26.800 --> 00:36:27.680] You know, hey, Evan.
[00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:29.600] You met my character first, then you met me.
[00:36:29.600 --> 00:36:31.040] Yeah, like, Evan, come out to dinner with us.
[00:36:31.280 --> 00:36:33.120] And we start talking and get to know each other.
[00:36:33.120 --> 00:36:37.120] And then think about all the different role-playing games we've played over the years, Evan, all the different scenarios.
[00:36:37.120 --> 00:36:43.280] Like, you just can't, you can't make this type of stuff happen in your life without playing some type of role-playing game.
[00:36:43.280 --> 00:36:48.160] Like that, this is the way that you can experience all these scenarios, potential scenarios.
[00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:49.680] It's not just that.
[00:36:49.680 --> 00:36:54.080] So, like, the one thing that I think is unique to the role-playing games.
[00:36:54.080 --> 00:36:58.080] That's what I was going to ask, Steve, because I feel like a lot of this is gaming.
[00:36:58.080 --> 00:36:58.560] Yes.
[00:36:58.560 --> 00:37:02.920] But what's different about role-playing games is there's one thing that's different from all other games.
[00:37:03.320 --> 00:37:05.560] It requires, I think, a lot more empathy.
[00:37:05.560 --> 00:37:10.920] It does, but it's also that you are, it's the one game you're playing where you're not yourself.
[00:37:10.920 --> 00:37:13.480] That's why it requires more empathy.
[00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:17.400] And I think that's the psychological skill that we're tapping into.
[00:37:17.400 --> 00:37:19.160] Yes, frustration tolerance.
[00:37:19.160 --> 00:37:24.440] Yes, ability to sit with your emotions and not explode, which all gaming helps.
[00:37:24.440 --> 00:37:26.200] Puzzling helps with that.
[00:37:26.200 --> 00:37:30.520] But empathy is a skill that you have to practice.
[00:37:30.520 --> 00:37:32.280] For example, I played many characters.
[00:37:32.280 --> 00:37:33.000] You guys know me.
[00:37:33.720 --> 00:37:36.360] I'm pretty reserved, generally speaking.
[00:37:36.360 --> 00:37:40.920] But I play characters who are the exact opposite of my personality.
[00:37:40.920 --> 00:37:46.200] So I have had to tap into myself, some aspect of my personality.
[00:37:46.360 --> 00:37:49.880] Jay and I, one of our favorite characters that we played were mobsters.
[00:37:50.360 --> 00:37:51.880] They were very medieval mobsters.
[00:37:51.960 --> 00:38:00.280] They were very charismatic mobsters whose whole point was to suck players into the dark underbelly of the game, right?
[00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:07.240] And so we came off as very appealing and very compelling, but also a little menacing, you know?
[00:38:07.240 --> 00:38:10.280] And then, so I have, how do you balance those two things?
[00:38:10.280 --> 00:38:15.800] But I remember it was so much fun playing those characters because you basically have to turn off your superego.
[00:38:15.800 --> 00:38:21.000] You have to be completely unfiltered and say whatever comes to your mind.
[00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:31.560] And it was surprising to me how socially creative and smooth and witty you could be when you unfilter yourself.
[00:38:31.560 --> 00:38:35.640] But it was also exhausting because it wasn't my personality.
[00:38:35.640 --> 00:38:36.280] You know what I mean?
[00:38:36.280 --> 00:38:39.160] I don't know how you felt, Jay, but like I could do it for two, three hours.
[00:38:39.160 --> 00:38:40.840] I'm like, all right, I have to tap out.
[00:38:40.920 --> 00:38:41.560] It took effort.
[00:38:41.560 --> 00:38:48.400] It took, yeah, like because there's, but I wonder, like, there are some people who are, this is the way they are 24-7.
[00:38:48.400 --> 00:38:49.840] You know, this is just this year.
[00:38:50.720 --> 00:38:52.720] But that's also, how old were you at the time, Steve?
[00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:54.000] 30s.
[00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:54.400] Right.
[00:38:54.400 --> 00:38:56.960] So let's think about, you know, back to the study, right?
[00:38:57.120 --> 00:39:03.360] And back to thinking about the psychological benefits of children or younger people doing role-playing.
[00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:13.680] Think about yourself in that role as an eight-year-old whose identity is not fully developed yet and who's trying on different identities and personalities.
[00:39:14.240 --> 00:39:16.320] It's a little young for the game.
[00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:17.360] Okay, fine.
[00:39:17.360 --> 00:39:17.840] 12.
[00:39:17.840 --> 00:39:19.920] Well, 10 is the.
[00:39:20.240 --> 00:39:24.160] They do say the age start is 10, but 12 is probably more accurate.
[00:39:24.160 --> 00:39:25.120] All right, let's say 12.
[00:39:25.280 --> 00:39:26.240] That's besides the point.
[00:39:26.240 --> 00:39:34.640] Like 12, and you're still figuring out who you are, and you're still figuring out what your personality is, and whether you feel shy or brave in these situations.
[00:39:34.640 --> 00:39:36.160] And what is bravery to you?
[00:39:36.160 --> 00:39:38.960] And how do you want to be vulnerable with your friends?
[00:39:38.960 --> 00:39:49.760] And all of these different components that really become factors of how you define yourself, of your self-efficacy, of your self-esteem.
[00:39:49.760 --> 00:39:59.840] What an incredible opportunity in a low-stakes way to practice being all of the things that you are trying to find out about yourself.
[00:40:00.160 --> 00:40:01.680] Yeah, I agree.
[00:40:01.680 --> 00:40:08.240] And also, I credit my role-playing experience with my ease of public speaking.
[00:40:08.240 --> 00:40:20.400] And I remember how I was at the very beginning, say my LARPing experience, just because of the type of character I was mainly playing, there were lots of situations when I had to talk to a couple of hundred people at a time.
[00:40:20.400 --> 00:40:29.520] Like, I had to not only talk to the town, like, again, like to 100, 200 people, I had to marshal the town, right?
[00:40:29.720 --> 00:40:30.520] You had to be persuasive.
[00:40:30.680 --> 00:40:33.400] I had to persuade them to do something.
[00:40:33.400 --> 00:40:37.960] And it was difficult, and I felt very nervous and awkward initially.
[00:40:37.960 --> 00:40:41.720] By the end of my LARPing experience, it was nothing.
[00:40:41.720 --> 00:40:53.800] Nothing for me to just grab the attention of everybody and whatever, make whatever happen, whether I was trying to intimidate them or trying to inspire them or whatever.
[00:40:53.800 --> 00:41:00.920] I was able to, again, practice a lot of these things and developed real social skills doing that.
[00:41:00.920 --> 00:41:04.200] And of course, we also knew a lot of people through the game.
[00:41:04.200 --> 00:41:10.520] And Evan and I then ran the game for five years where we were not playing, we were running the game.
[00:41:10.520 --> 00:41:15.400] And we knew every player intimately in that game and what their strengths and their weaknesses were.
[00:41:15.400 --> 00:41:16.040] And we saw them.
[00:41:16.040 --> 00:41:27.640] We saw a lot of people enter that game as a completely awkward and nerdy kind of person and blossom into really compelling characters.
[00:41:28.360 --> 00:41:28.920] Fun to watch.
[00:41:29.160 --> 00:41:30.120] Fun to watch.
[00:41:30.120 --> 00:41:30.840] Amazing.
[00:41:30.840 --> 00:41:32.760] Geez, I wish you guys would invite me.
[00:41:33.400 --> 00:41:33.880] We did.
[00:41:34.520 --> 00:41:35.720] We know that we did.
[00:41:35.720 --> 00:41:37.080] I got better shit to do.
[00:41:37.080 --> 00:41:37.560] Yeah.
[00:41:37.880 --> 00:41:39.240] I'm with you, Bob.
[00:41:39.240 --> 00:41:39.720] Whatever.
[00:41:39.720 --> 00:41:46.840] Yeah, I'm not saying it's for everyone, but listen, I think that it does not deserve any kind of negative stigma attached to it.
[00:41:46.840 --> 00:41:50.520] Nobody should be shamed for engaging in role-playing.
[00:41:50.520 --> 00:42:02.760] It is an extremely creative endeavor, massively creative, and a ton of fun, among the most fun, probably the funnest game I've ever played, certainly.
[00:42:02.760 --> 00:42:11.400] And also, again, has all these other aspects to it that you can build a lot of skills, which in a way is one of the main purposes of games, right?
[00:42:11.400 --> 00:42:14.520] It's yes, it's fun, it's a distraction, but it's also about building skills.
[00:42:14.640 --> 00:42:17.520] And that's what many games were invented for.
[00:42:17.520 --> 00:42:22.960] And this is, I mean, this is about a game where you get to build life skills and social skills.
[00:42:22.960 --> 00:42:28.800] I think it's perfect, again, for people who may find those situations difficult, you know.
[00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:40.480] It's also, you know, some psychologists argue that it's like a fundamental human need that, like, that sort of there are these three pillars of mental health, which are relationships, right?
[00:42:40.480 --> 00:42:57.760] Whether it's love or friendships or all the different ways that we engage with others, work, which that could be academic work, it could be, you know, physical labor, but all of the different ways that we produce and we engage and we make and we create and play.
[00:42:58.080 --> 00:43:12.000] That, like, you know, every single animal, every mammal, every version of an evolved or an evolving organism that at least is somewhat, quote, I don't know, complex, plays.
[00:43:12.640 --> 00:43:14.880] Even well into old age.
[00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:16.880] My dog always plays.
[00:43:16.880 --> 00:43:17.200] Yeah.
[00:43:17.200 --> 00:43:20.240] And it's important for us to remember that we play.
[00:43:20.240 --> 00:43:22.960] But lots of people stop playing in life.
[00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:23.680] They just stop.
[00:43:23.680 --> 00:43:25.440] They think that it's childlike.
[00:43:25.440 --> 00:43:26.080] It's not.
[00:43:26.080 --> 00:43:26.480] Oh, God.
[00:43:26.640 --> 00:43:26.880] It's not.
[00:43:26.880 --> 00:43:30.000] It's necessary for your mental health.
[00:43:30.240 --> 00:43:44.800] Don't keep yourself from enjoying something like this very intensely and something that could be a very positive social experience because you have, you're inhibited by those kind of ideas that it's nerdy or it's childish or whatever.
[00:43:44.800 --> 00:43:45.760] To me, that's silly.
[00:43:45.760 --> 00:43:48.960] Just let loose, have fun, build skills.
[00:43:48.960 --> 00:43:49.600] It's great.
[00:43:49.600 --> 00:43:55.920] Can I give advice, though, to people out there that might be intrigued by what we're saying and are interested in looking for a group?
[00:43:55.920 --> 00:43:59.280] You know, first of all, I love gaming with people that I know.
[00:43:59.280 --> 00:44:06.600] And on occasion, when I game with people that I don't know, sometimes someone kind of fits and sometimes they don't, right?
[00:44:06.920 --> 00:44:12.440] You will experience very juvenile type gaming with the wrong group of people.
[00:44:12.440 --> 00:44:22.440] So the quality control there is the people you choose to do this with, you know, like because I've played games with lots of different people under different circumstances.
[00:44:22.440 --> 00:44:27.560] And like, there's a lot of times where I'm like, oh man, this is like, this is literally like playing a game when I was 14.
[00:44:27.560 --> 00:44:28.520] You know what I mean?
[00:44:29.080 --> 00:44:30.680] You don't want to get stuck in that.
[00:44:30.680 --> 00:44:33.000] So just, you know, pick the group.
[00:44:33.160 --> 00:44:38.760] Well, that's like playing football with people who are way better than you or way worse than you, right?
[00:44:38.760 --> 00:44:42.520] You got to find your level, like any other thing else, because there is a lot of skills involved.
[00:44:42.520 --> 00:44:43.400] Absolutely.
[00:44:43.800 --> 00:44:51.800] You also want to find, you know, there's a component of it, Jay, that I think you're tapping into, which reflects on things like group therapy, too.
[00:44:51.800 --> 00:44:55.800] Like, you can't just throw a bunch of random people together and expect group therapy to work.
[00:44:56.360 --> 00:45:02.360] You have to make sure that there is a trust and a connection and a comfort.
[00:45:02.360 --> 00:45:05.960] And there's a lot of, you know, these factors that are kind of hard to put your finger on.
[00:45:05.960 --> 00:45:09.480] But I relate to you because I feel the same way about poker.
[00:45:09.480 --> 00:45:13.160] I can go play in a poker room with a bunch of people I don't know and it's fine.
[00:45:13.160 --> 00:45:18.200] But when I play in a home game with like friends, there is magic at the poker table.
[00:45:18.600 --> 00:45:19.880] It's so much more fun.
[00:45:19.880 --> 00:45:21.080] Oh, you totally get it, Karen.
[00:45:21.080 --> 00:45:21.560] That's it.
[00:45:21.560 --> 00:45:22.440] That's the parallel.
[00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:28.680] And if you're parents who have kids, this is a perfect parent-child interaction.
[00:45:28.840 --> 00:45:29.400] It's so fun.
[00:45:29.880 --> 00:45:30.120] It is.
[00:45:30.120 --> 00:45:30.920] Yeah, we play with our kids.
[00:45:32.120 --> 00:45:33.800] I'm running a game campaign now.
[00:45:33.800 --> 00:45:37.720] Really, the purpose of it is so I could spend more time with my daughters, basically.
[00:45:37.720 --> 00:45:39.720] And Evan is playing with his daughter.
[00:45:39.720 --> 00:45:43.640] And like the adults in the game know, like, we're supporting roles, right?
[00:45:43.640 --> 00:45:48.400] Like, we're letting them sort of take the lead and really problem solve and do all the.
[00:45:48.560 --> 00:45:52.320] And even though, you know, we have way more experience than they do, but it's great.
[00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:52.960] It's a ton of fun.
[00:45:53.120 --> 00:45:54.240] Oh, it's so much fun watching.
[00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:57.920] So much fun watching them sort of grow into their own role-playing skills.
[00:45:57.920 --> 00:46:00.320] Because it reminds us of our time at that age.
[00:46:00.320 --> 00:46:00.720] Yep.
[00:46:00.720 --> 00:46:01.520] All right.
[00:46:01.520 --> 00:46:03.840] Bob, completely different topic.
[00:46:03.840 --> 00:46:05.280] Thanks for indulging us, by the way.
[00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:08.480] This is the DD's 50th anniversary, so I felt I'm entitled.
[00:46:09.440 --> 00:46:10.000] Yeah, I think so.
[00:46:10.560 --> 00:46:10.960] Very interesting.
[00:46:11.200 --> 00:46:11.760] Little review.
[00:46:11.760 --> 00:46:12.080] Yeah.
[00:46:12.400 --> 00:46:16.800] You probably think it's too soon to join AARP, right?
[00:46:16.800 --> 00:46:19.040] Well, let's take a minute to talk about it.
[00:46:19.040 --> 00:46:21.760] Where do you see yourself in 15 years?
[00:46:21.760 --> 00:46:26.240] More specifically, your career, your health, your social life.
[00:46:26.240 --> 00:46:28.880] What are you doing now to help you get there?
[00:46:28.880 --> 00:46:34.320] There are tons of ways for you to start preparing today for your future with AARP.
[00:46:34.320 --> 00:46:40.480] That dream job you've dreamt about, sign up for AARP reskilling courses to help make it a reality.
[00:46:40.480 --> 00:46:45.280] How about that active lifestyle you've only spoken about from the couch?
[00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:50.320] AARP has health tips and wellness tools to keep you moving for years to come.
[00:46:50.320 --> 00:46:54.240] But none of these experiences are without making friends along the way.
[00:46:54.240 --> 00:46:58.240] Connect with your community through AARP volunteer events.
[00:46:58.240 --> 00:47:02.640] So it's safe to say it's never too soon to join AARP.
[00:47:02.640 --> 00:47:06.800] They're here to help your money, health, and happiness live as long as you do.
[00:47:06.800 --> 00:47:11.040] That's why the younger you are, the more you need AARP.
[00:47:11.040 --> 00:47:15.280] Learn more at AARP.org/slash wise friend.
[00:47:15.280 --> 00:47:17.680] This is where projects come to life.
[00:47:17.680 --> 00:47:27.920] Our showrooms are designed to inspire with the latest products from top brands, curated in an inviting, hands-on environment, and a team of industry experts to support your project.
[00:47:27.920 --> 00:47:33.400] We'll be there to make sure everything goes as planned, from product selection to delivery coordination.
[00:47:33.400 --> 00:47:38.520] At Ferguson Bath Kitchen and Lighting Gallery, your project is our priority.
[00:47:38.520 --> 00:47:43.560] Discover great brands like Kohler at your local Ferguson showroom.
[00:47:45.480 --> 00:47:49.240] So I initially chose FDU because it was affordable and it worked with my budget.
[00:47:49.240 --> 00:47:58.760] I had no idea I was going to be pursuing a career in pharmacy, but it was over the years and meeting different professors that really enlightened me and showed me that I have what it takes to become a pharmacist.
[00:47:59.080 --> 00:48:00.120] I honestly believe that.
[00:48:00.120 --> 00:48:01.800] It did change my life.
[00:48:02.440 --> 00:48:08.520] Hi, I'm Chris Gethard, and I'm very excited to tell you about Beautiful Anonymous, a podcast where I talk to random people on the phone.
[00:48:08.520 --> 00:48:11.160] I tweet out a phone number, thousands of people try to call.
[00:48:11.160 --> 00:48:13.160] I talk to one of them, they stay anonymous.
[00:48:13.160 --> 00:48:14.040] I can't hang up.
[00:48:14.040 --> 00:48:15.080] That's all the rules.
[00:48:15.080 --> 00:48:16.600] I never know what's going to happen.
[00:48:16.600 --> 00:48:17.960] We get serious ones.
[00:48:17.960 --> 00:48:20.040] I've talked with meth dealers on their way to prison.
[00:48:20.040 --> 00:48:22.200] I've talked to people who survived mass shootings.
[00:48:22.200 --> 00:48:23.240] Crazy, funny ones.
[00:48:23.240 --> 00:48:27.160] I talked to a guy with a goose laugh, somebody who dresses up as a pirate on the weekends.
[00:48:27.160 --> 00:48:28.520] I never know what's going to happen.
[00:48:28.520 --> 00:48:29.720] It's a great show.
[00:48:29.720 --> 00:48:32.280] Subscribe today, Beautiful Anonymous.
[00:48:32.280 --> 00:48:35.240] Bob, tell us about the search for gravitons.
[00:48:35.240 --> 00:48:36.840] Oh, yeah, this was fun.
[00:48:36.840 --> 00:48:39.320] A lot more fun than DD searching this.
[00:48:41.160 --> 00:48:50.040] A new study has proposed a way to potentially detect in the near future what has long been thought undetectable, the infamous graviton.
[00:48:50.600 --> 00:48:51.640] Undetectable.
[00:48:53.000 --> 00:48:59.800] Perhaps we shall see the theoretical particle that, if it exists, would be the carrier of that mystifying force we call gravity.
[00:48:59.800 --> 00:49:02.840] Physics professor Igor, or is it Igor?
[00:49:03.160 --> 00:49:16.560] Mukovsky led a team of first-year graduate students and postdoc researcher Srinath Manikandan in this study, published in Nature Communications called Detecting Single Gravitons with Quantum Sensing.
[00:49:16.560 --> 00:49:19.120] Okay, first things first, what is a graviton?
[00:49:19.440 --> 00:49:22.480] I think we've mentioned it on the show, but not in any detail.
[00:49:22.480 --> 00:49:29.040] Gravitons are theoretical, first off, theoretical, no evidence, solid evidence for them at all, really.
[00:49:29.200 --> 00:49:34.400] Gravitons are theoretical particles that would transmit or mediate the force of gravity, right?
[00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:39.360] This would be like photons, which transmit the electromagnetic force, which we call light.
[00:49:39.360 --> 00:49:43.600] They'd also be similar to gluons, which mediate the strong force, etc.
[00:49:43.760 --> 00:49:50.320] So the theory says that gravitons would probably be like photons in that they would be massless and travel at the speed of light.
[00:49:50.320 --> 00:49:53.680] So they would in a sense be building blocks of gravity, right?
[00:49:53.680 --> 00:50:05.040] Gravitational waves, which we've covered many times, are often described as these space-time ripples, right, that are formed from colliding black holes or neutron stars, and which are detectable with LIGO.
[00:50:05.040 --> 00:50:05.920] Remember those?
[00:50:05.920 --> 00:50:12.640] So those gravitational waves, which we've talked about many times on the show, would be made up of many gravitons.
[00:50:12.640 --> 00:50:13.600] Okay, you got that?
[00:50:13.600 --> 00:50:22.480] So now you may be thinking, hey, isn't gravity really the curvature of space with no real need for a particle or a force that's transmitted?
[00:50:22.480 --> 00:50:29.360] And you would be right, bravo and brava to you, but you'd be right from a specific context only, really.
[00:50:29.360 --> 00:50:36.960] Einstein's general relativity describes a universe where mass and energy curve space-time, and that curve tells matter how to move.
[00:50:36.960 --> 00:50:39.600] And we say that movement is caused by gravity.
[00:50:39.600 --> 00:50:40.480] That's gravity.
[00:50:40.480 --> 00:50:45.920] Observation and experiments support this concept of space-time curvature over and over and over.
[00:50:45.920 --> 00:50:48.960] But general relativity, though, is a classical theory.
[00:50:48.960 --> 00:50:50.560] That's a huge distinction.
[00:50:50.560 --> 00:50:55.840] And therefore, because it's classical, it does not incorporate any principles from quantum theory.
[00:50:55.840 --> 00:51:07.960] So, as a classical theory, general relativity works fine for large-scale phenomena like orbits and black holes, but classical theories don't work well at very small scales or very high speeds.
[00:51:07.960 --> 00:51:11.000] Small scales are ruled by quantum mechanics.
[00:51:11.000 --> 00:51:18.200] So, one of the holy grails of physics is a version of gravity incorporating general relativity and quantum mechanics.
[00:51:18.200 --> 00:51:19.560] That's quantum gravity.
[00:51:19.560 --> 00:51:21.880] We've mentioned that multiple times on the show.
[00:51:21.880 --> 00:51:27.640] This would be a fusion of the two great theories of the 20th century: general relativity, quantum mechanics.
[00:51:27.640 --> 00:51:32.200] Multiple attempts at this theory predict gravitons, like string theory and supergravity.
[00:51:32.200 --> 00:51:33.880] They're like embedded right in the math.
[00:51:33.880 --> 00:51:35.720] There they are, they just pop out.
[00:51:35.720 --> 00:51:45.880] But creating a theory of quantum gravity has proved immensely difficult, though, because combining general relativity and quantum mechanics, it's like combining hieroglyphics with Klingon, right?
[00:51:45.880 --> 00:51:47.720] They just don't want to mesh together.
[00:51:47.720 --> 00:51:55.160] And I've often thought I would seriously consider asking a genie for the key to the theory of quantum gravity as one of my wishes.
[00:51:55.160 --> 00:51:58.120] But yeah, but only if I had more than three wishes, though.
[00:51:58.120 --> 00:52:01.080] If I got three, I got higher priorities.
[00:52:01.080 --> 00:52:01.720] Right, right.
[00:52:02.280 --> 00:52:03.000] Peanut butter thing.
[00:52:03.240 --> 00:52:03.800] Humankind.
[00:52:04.120 --> 00:52:04.840] zombies.
[00:52:05.480 --> 00:52:09.800] Now, it would be a big help if we could just actually detect a graviton.
[00:52:09.800 --> 00:52:11.160] That would be an immense help.
[00:52:11.480 --> 00:52:13.960] Or maybe even just infer its existence.
[00:52:13.960 --> 00:52:22.120] But every time physicists seriously ponder how to detect these gravitons, they conclude: nope, it seems like an impossible task.
[00:52:22.280 --> 00:52:28.600] Why do you think it's so difficult to detect a graviton if they even exist?
[00:52:28.680 --> 00:52:29.400] Very low energy.
[00:52:29.960 --> 00:52:30.760] Physicists are dumb?
[00:52:31.080 --> 00:52:34.840] No, it actually would take high, it would take high energy to actually detect gravity.
[00:52:35.160 --> 00:52:36.520] They are low energy, right?
[00:52:36.520 --> 00:52:44.480] Well, yeah, so what that kind of means is that, and it's one of the primary reasons I have here, is that gravity is as weak as Jay's pea soup.
[00:52:43.080 --> 00:52:46.560] Do you make pea soup, Jay?
[00:52:44.120 --> 00:52:47.360] It's ridiculous.
[00:52:47.520 --> 00:52:53.440] The interaction of gravity with matter is notoriously and ridiculously and stupidly weak.
[00:52:53.440 --> 00:52:54.400] Amazingly weak.
[00:52:54.400 --> 00:52:55.040] How weak?
[00:52:55.040 --> 00:52:56.000] How weak is it?
[00:52:56.000 --> 00:52:56.800] It's very weak.
[00:52:56.800 --> 00:53:01.920] Gravity is 100 undecillion times weaker than the strong force.
[00:53:01.920 --> 00:53:04.480] That's 10 to the 38 times weaker.
[00:53:04.480 --> 00:53:06.560] That's 100 trillion, trillion, trillion.
[00:53:07.120 --> 00:53:11.760] It's notoriously, amazingly weak, far weaker than any of the other forces.
[00:53:11.760 --> 00:53:14.240] Now, everybody, stand up and jump.
[00:53:14.240 --> 00:53:14.960] I'll wait.
[00:53:14.960 --> 00:53:15.520] Okay.
[00:53:15.520 --> 00:53:18.960] So think, how easy is it to jump off the ground, right?
[00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:22.720] I mean, you could easily jump, albeit briefly, but you can jump.
[00:53:22.720 --> 00:53:27.600] You could defy the entire gravitational force of the Earth underneath you.
[00:53:28.080 --> 00:53:30.960] It takes the Earth just to hold you onto itself.
[00:53:30.960 --> 00:53:38.560] All that means, all of that that I've just said means, is that detecting or isolating the interaction of a single graviton would be so difficult.
[00:53:38.560 --> 00:53:40.960] Many think it's just forever beyond our ability.
[00:53:40.960 --> 00:53:41.920] It's just not going to happen.
[00:53:41.920 --> 00:53:43.600] It's just so ridiculously weak.
[00:53:44.880 --> 00:53:46.720] It's weaker than the weak force, right?
[00:53:47.040 --> 00:53:47.440] Right.
[00:53:47.760 --> 00:53:48.800] I think it is, right?
[00:53:48.800 --> 00:53:50.000] But how much weaker?
[00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:51.920] You said how much weaker it is than the strong force.
[00:53:51.920 --> 00:53:53.040] Well, the strong force is strong.
[00:53:53.440 --> 00:53:55.120] How much weaker is it than the weak force?
[00:53:55.680 --> 00:53:56.240] I don't know.
[00:53:56.240 --> 00:53:57.120] I don't have that number.
[00:53:57.120 --> 00:53:59.920] Many, many, you know, thousands and thousands of times.
[00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:00.400] Oh, okay.
[00:54:01.120 --> 00:54:02.320] Yeah, it's far weaker.
[00:54:02.320 --> 00:54:06.560] I mean, the reason why gravity is important is because it's long acting.
[00:54:06.560 --> 00:54:07.520] It doesn't have a short range.
[00:54:07.520 --> 00:54:09.280] It has basically an infinite range.
[00:54:09.280 --> 00:54:16.560] And that's why the universe itself has arranged itself because of gravity, because it's such a long, long-range force.
[00:54:16.560 --> 00:54:22.320] Lead author Pakovsky said, many physicists thought about it over the years, but the answer was always the same.
[00:54:22.320 --> 00:54:25.280] It cannot be done in terms of detecting gravitons.
[00:54:25.280 --> 00:54:31.240] It was impossible to imagine quantum experiments that go beyond a few atoms, and they hardly interact with gravitons at all.
[00:54:29.840 --> 00:54:31.880] I mean, it's true.
[00:54:32.040 --> 00:54:37.480] When you get down to the scale of atoms, when you're doing a lot of theoretical work, you could basically ignore gravity.
[00:54:37.800 --> 00:54:39.960] It's just a non-entity at that scale.
[00:54:39.960 --> 00:54:43.720] Now, you may think, hey, we can detect gravitational waves.
[00:54:43.720 --> 00:54:53.240] Wouldn't it be fairly straightforward then to detect one of the gravitons that make up these gravitational waves that our LIGO detectors have been detecting for years now?
[00:54:53.240 --> 00:54:55.080] Such an amazing development.
[00:54:55.080 --> 00:54:57.800] The paper actually addresses this specifically.
[00:54:57.960 --> 00:55:10.040] The researchers explain that the famous physicist Freeman Deitson once looked into that specifically and he calculated that a typical gravitational wave that we detect would consist of, say, 10 to the 36 gravitons.
[00:55:10.040 --> 00:55:13.000] A lot of gravitons, a huge number.
[00:55:13.000 --> 00:55:22.840] But to detect one or two of those, that would mean that we'd have to increase the position resolution of LIGO to far below the Planck length.
[00:55:22.840 --> 00:55:25.320] Now, the Planck length is tiny.
[00:55:25.320 --> 00:55:26.920] Imagine a proton, right?
[00:55:26.920 --> 00:55:27.720] Really small.
[00:55:27.720 --> 00:55:30.280] Now, divide that by 100 quintillion.
[00:55:30.280 --> 00:55:31.720] That's a Planck length.
[00:55:31.720 --> 00:55:36.360] So, yeah, we're not going to improve LIGO to have that kind of spatial resolution.
[00:55:36.360 --> 00:55:39.720] And no wonder that these physicists have been so pessimistic.
[00:55:40.040 --> 00:55:41.720] And that's just one example.
[00:55:41.720 --> 00:55:46.120] There's so many reasons why this would be so ridiculously difficult.
[00:55:46.120 --> 00:55:52.600] But even given those hurdles, Provovsky still thought of a way to possibly get around them.
[00:55:52.840 --> 00:56:05.880] Scientists have relatively recently been able to observe quantum effects in large macroscopic objects, and Provovsky thought that he could leverage that progress that we've made and point to a way to eventually detect gravitons.
[00:56:05.880 --> 00:56:11.240] Now, the macroscopic object that I'm referring to here that's outlined in their paper is it's a type of detector.
[00:56:11.240 --> 00:56:12.760] It's called a resonator.
[00:56:12.760 --> 00:56:17.200] And this resonator can vibrate at very, very specific frequencies.
[00:56:17.200 --> 00:56:20.160] They would cool the resonator to near absolute zero.
[00:56:20.160 --> 00:56:25.120] And they do that, of course, to minimize noise and make it as sensitive as they possibly can.
[00:56:25.120 --> 00:56:32.720] So the idea is that when a gravitational wave passes by this resonator and the wave is detected by LIGO, right?
[00:56:32.720 --> 00:56:34.560] LIGO can detect these waves.
[00:56:34.560 --> 00:56:51.520] That same wave should have also had a few of its gravitons, maybe just a couple or even one, a few of those gravitons, a few of those 10 to the 36 gravitons, should hopefully have been absorbed and emitted by this resonator, causing it to vibrate in a very specific way.
[00:56:51.520 --> 00:56:57.120] And that vibration can be matched to the energy they would expect from a single graviton.
[00:56:57.120 --> 00:56:59.280] And that's the key to this new idea.
[00:56:59.520 --> 00:57:09.200] Graduate student and paper contributor Jermaine Tobar said: by observing these quantum jumps in the material, we can deduce that a graviton was absorbed.
[00:57:09.200 --> 00:57:12.240] We call it the gravitophononic effect.
[00:57:12.400 --> 00:57:18.000] Pukovsky said again: he said, our solution is similar to the photoelectric effect, which is a great analogy.
[00:57:18.320 --> 00:57:26.880] Our solution is similar to the photoelectric effect that led Einstein to the quantum theory of light, just with gravitational waves replacing electromagnetic waves.
[00:57:26.880 --> 00:57:32.960] The key is that the energy is exchanged between the material and the waves only in discrete steps.
[00:57:32.960 --> 00:57:35.600] Single gravitons are absorbed and emitted.
[00:57:35.600 --> 00:57:44.400] Now, that seems so encouraging to me, but remember, though, keep in mind, this sensing technology, which they call quantum sensing, does not exist yet.
[00:57:44.400 --> 00:57:52.320] Do not have this level of sophistication yet in our technology, but they are nonetheless confident that this before long we will have it.
[00:57:52.320 --> 00:57:59.040] Pukovsky said again: quantum jumps have been observed in materials recently, but not yet at the masses we need.
[00:57:59.280 --> 00:58:11.960] He continues: We know that quantum gravity is still unsolved, and it's too hard to test it in all its full glory, but we can now take the first steps, just as scientists did over 100 years ago with quanta of light.
[00:58:11.960 --> 00:58:14.760] So, okay, this is really fascinating.
[00:58:14.760 --> 00:58:21.080] I'm really going to look, really try to follow this and hope they make some interesting progress over the next few years or so.
[00:58:21.400 --> 00:58:24.440] So, what would confirming the quantum nature of gravity mean?
[00:58:24.440 --> 00:58:46.360] Well, obviously, it could be the advance that we need to show that quantum gravity, you know, which quantum gravity model of the many that we are developing, which is the most promising and which could is more likely to ultimately lead to a fully realized theory of quantum gravity, which would be awesome because I've been waiting literally for decades and I'm getting increasingly pissed off.
[00:58:46.360 --> 00:58:49.240] And finding a genie does not seem like it's going to happen either.
[00:58:49.240 --> 00:58:51.320] So, please make this happen, people.
[00:58:51.560 --> 00:58:56.680] I've been waiting for this quantum gravity for so long, and I want to see it before I die.
[00:58:56.680 --> 00:58:57.800] Okay, Bob, thanks.
[00:58:57.800 --> 00:58:58.680] I'm good.
[00:58:58.680 --> 00:59:02.680] All right, Erin, this is a really cool story about dinosaur footprints.
[00:59:02.680 --> 00:59:05.400] We love stories about dinosaur footprints.
[00:59:05.400 --> 00:59:06.200] Who doesn't?
[00:59:06.360 --> 00:59:08.040] Been loving those since I was a kid.
[00:59:08.040 --> 00:59:15.480] But here's a new study that's reporting about the discovery of matching dinosaur footprints on two different continents.
[00:59:15.480 --> 00:59:16.440] Oh my gosh.
[00:59:16.760 --> 00:59:36.760] The footprints are believed to be of early Cretaceous dinosaurs, and the footprints were found more than 3,700 miles, which is roughly 6,000 kilometers apart from the Borborima region in the northeast of Brazil and the Coam Basin in northern Cameroon.
[00:59:36.760 --> 00:59:43.720] And if you know your geography in your head, you're going to know South America and Africa.
[00:59:44.440 --> 00:59:53.120] Analysis of the tracks revealed that they are similar in terms of age and geological context and almost identical in their shape.
[00:59:53.120 --> 00:59:53.680] So cool.
[00:59:53.840 --> 00:59:55.760] So are both of those continents.
[00:59:56.080 --> 00:59:56.800] Absolutely.
[00:59:56.800 --> 00:59:57.120] Yes.
[00:59:58.320 --> 00:59:58.640] Right.
[00:59:58.640 --> 00:59:59.280] This isn't.
[00:59:59.600 --> 01:00:03.440] I don't think this is a surprising result by any stretch.
[01:00:03.440 --> 01:00:04.720] It doesn't rewrite anything.
[01:00:04.720 --> 01:00:15.040] It just, you know, further solidifies the idea that this was once all one landmass that broke apart many hundreds of millions, a couple hundred million years ago.
[01:00:15.040 --> 01:00:16.560] So, yeah, the dinosaurs, what?
[01:00:16.560 --> 01:00:22.720] They were three-toed theropods, but they believe also perhaps some sauropods and, oh, here's one.
[01:00:22.720 --> 01:00:27.840] Ornithiscians were among them as well, but mostly the theropods.
[01:00:28.000 --> 01:00:31.360] Ornithischians are a much higher group than theropods.
[01:00:31.360 --> 01:00:36.400] Mostly carnivous theropods and also sauropods or ornithiscians.
[01:00:36.400 --> 01:00:42.320] Well, it's just mixing up different levels because all dinosaurs are either Sauritians or Ornithiscians, right?
[01:00:42.320 --> 01:00:42.720] That's it.
[01:00:42.720 --> 01:00:45.040] Those are the two branching groups of dinosaurs.
[01:00:45.200 --> 01:00:46.400] Bird-hipped or lizard-hipped.
[01:00:46.560 --> 01:00:46.720] Yeah.
[01:00:46.880 --> 01:00:47.840] Gotcha.
[01:00:47.840 --> 01:00:55.120] And then the lizard-hipped, the theropods are in the Sauritians and like the Triceratops.
[01:00:55.280 --> 01:00:56.640] Therapods and sauropods.
[01:00:56.640 --> 01:00:56.960] Yeah.
[01:00:56.960 --> 01:01:00.080] And then the Triceratops, I believe, are in the Ornithischians.
[01:01:00.400 --> 01:01:03.840] It's kind of reversed because the birds evolved from the lizard-hip dinosaurs.
[01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:04.720] That's confusing.
[01:01:04.720 --> 01:01:05.200] Right.
[01:01:05.200 --> 01:01:06.560] But anyway, go ahead.
[01:01:07.040 --> 01:01:10.080] Yeah, it's just a little confusing because it's mixing up different levels.
[01:01:10.080 --> 01:01:10.800] Agreed.
[01:01:10.800 --> 01:01:25.120] This study was published by the New Mexico Museum of Natural History and Science, and it was in a tribute to the late paleontologist Martin Lockley, who spent much of his career studying dinosaur tracks and footprints.
[01:01:25.120 --> 01:01:29.600] All right, I'll read you the key points from the conclusion of the actual paper.
[01:01:29.600 --> 01:01:29.920] Here we go.
[01:01:30.600 --> 01:01:41.480] The study places dinosaur tracks in a context to elucidate an appropriate path of biogeographical exchange between what would soon, geologically, become separate continents.
[01:01:41.480 --> 01:01:48.040] Therefore, our conclusions have relevance for essentially for all terrestrial biota of the existing communities at the time.
[01:01:48.040 --> 01:01:52.920] However, the concept was developed with the data we have, dinosaur tracks.
[01:01:52.920 --> 01:02:01.400] The puzzle-like fit and obvious proximity of the Atlantic coast of Africa and South America compel the notion of biogeographic linkages through time.
[01:02:01.400 --> 01:02:09.240] That relationship is made even more plausible by the tectonics controlling the separation of the continents and the pre-existing geology.
[01:02:09.240 --> 01:02:19.960] The pre-existing tectonic framework controlled the formation and structure of the sedimentary basins formed during the process of continental rifting and ocean formation.
[01:02:19.960 --> 01:02:20.680] Yep.
[01:02:20.680 --> 01:02:27.560] So they found more than 260 dinosaur footprints in both Brazil and Cameroon between them.
[01:02:27.560 --> 01:02:36.200] The footprints show where the dinosaurs used to walk between basically South America and Africa millions of years ago, as it was all part of the same.
[01:02:36.200 --> 01:02:50.200] SMU paleontologist Louis Jacobs, who was part of the study, said this: Dinosaurs made the tracks 120 million years ago on a single supercontinent known as Gondwana, which broke off from the larger landmass of Pangea.
[01:02:50.200 --> 01:03:00.760] One of the youngest and narrowest geological connections between Africa and South America was the elbow of northeastern Brazil nestled against what is now the coast of Cameroon along the Gulf of Guinea.
[01:03:00.760 --> 01:03:08.200] The two continents were continuous along that narrow stretch, so that animals on either side of that connection could potentially move across it.
[01:03:08.200 --> 01:03:15.520] Before the continental connection between Africa and South and South America was severed, rivered flows and lakes formed in the basins.
[01:03:14.840 --> 01:03:18.240] Plants fed the herbivores and supported the food chain.
[01:03:18.480 --> 01:03:30.480] Muddied sediments left by the rivers and lakes contained dinosaur footprints, including those of meat eaters, documenting that these river valleys could provide specific avenues for life to travel across the continents 120 million years ago.
[01:03:30.480 --> 01:03:31.360] Cool.
[01:03:31.360 --> 01:03:38.720] So these dinosaur tracks in Cameroon, on the Cameroon side, they were first identified in the 1980s.
[01:03:38.720 --> 01:03:52.640] But Jacobs and the other researchers decided to go back and look at them again after Martin Lockley had died, because I believe those were part of his discoveries.
[01:03:52.640 --> 01:03:55.920] And they were using techniques now that weren't available at the time.
[01:03:55.920 --> 01:04:08.320] That's the beautiful thing about modern science is that, and when it comes to either archaeology or paleontology, you can use new, better methods now than what was originally studied 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago.
[01:04:08.320 --> 01:04:10.240] So big, big advantage there.
[01:04:10.240 --> 01:04:22.560] Jacobs also said, I had not thought about dinosaur tracks in Cameroon for decades, and then just going back to them and starting to look at them and asking what they're trying to tell us, it was such a surprise to see how much had been learned in those decades and how much the story improved.
[01:04:22.560 --> 01:04:26.960] That's part of the adventure, not just paleontology, but all science here.
[01:04:26.960 --> 01:04:27.680] Yeah, this is cool.
[01:04:27.680 --> 01:04:37.760] So, I mean, obviously, there's lots of other lines of evidence for Pangea, you know, like South America and Africa being connected and then splitting apart.
[01:04:37.760 --> 01:04:42.480] But as far as I'm aware, previously it's been geological and fossil evidence.
[01:04:42.480 --> 01:04:42.960] Right.
[01:04:42.960 --> 01:04:48.960] So, like, there's basically continuity on the western coast of Africa and the eastern coast of South America.
[01:04:48.960 --> 01:04:55.040] You could see in some places, like, yeah, this is like the same rocks and sometimes the same fossil strata.
[01:04:55.360 --> 01:05:00.520] This is the first I'm aware of of footprints adding to that lines of evidence.
[01:04:59.920 --> 01:05:06.680] So, like, basically, the same kind of dinosaurs at the same time were laying down tracks.
[01:05:07.000 --> 01:05:10.760] Again, western coast of Africa, eastern coast of South America.
[01:05:10.760 --> 01:05:11.560] How cool would it be?
[01:05:11.560 --> 01:05:18.680] I know this is impossible, but how cool would that be if they could identify a single dinosaur walked across from Africa to South America?
[01:05:18.680 --> 01:05:22.600] Like, they could see that the tracks end on one side and pick up on the other.
[01:05:22.600 --> 01:05:23.400] Right, exactly.
[01:05:23.400 --> 01:05:26.200] Like, it had a massive foot injury that would have come out in the prints.
[01:05:26.280 --> 01:05:27.240] Yeah, or something like that.
[01:05:27.640 --> 01:05:28.040] Right?
[01:05:28.840 --> 01:05:30.520] Some defining single feature.
[01:05:30.680 --> 01:05:32.520] The probability of that is basically zero.
[01:05:32.520 --> 01:05:35.720] But that's like, I mean, the fact that they found this is remarkable.
[01:05:35.960 --> 01:05:39.000] I know, like, look at the coasts eroded.
[01:05:39.400 --> 01:05:39.960] Erode.
[01:05:39.960 --> 01:05:41.000] I was like, evolve, no.
[01:05:41.080 --> 01:05:41.640] Evolve, no.
[01:05:41.720 --> 01:05:42.600] Do you ever do that?
[01:05:42.600 --> 01:05:43.000] Yeah.
[01:05:43.000 --> 01:05:43.400] Yes.
[01:05:43.800 --> 01:05:45.080] It gets worse as you get older.
[01:05:45.080 --> 01:05:45.320] Yeah.
[01:05:45.560 --> 01:05:45.720] Great.
[01:05:47.160 --> 01:05:52.360] But yes, the coasts erode so much that, yeah, there'd be a big hole in the middle of that.
[01:05:52.360 --> 01:05:53.880] They would have had to walk really far.
[01:05:53.880 --> 01:05:54.520] Really far.
[01:05:54.840 --> 01:05:55.800] Super far.
[01:05:55.800 --> 01:05:56.520] Super far.
[01:05:56.520 --> 01:06:15.560] I also tried to look up and see if there were any, if there's any like active communities or even TikTokers who sort of deny the whole continental drift, you know, facts that have been, you know, laid out over the past and built up over, oh, gosh, it's going on 120 years, if not more now, of knowing this.
[01:06:15.560 --> 01:06:22.680] And I couldn't really find any other than mostly people who are talking in a biblical context, you know, young earth creationists.
[01:06:22.680 --> 01:06:25.480] Those are the ones that kind of say, meh.
[01:06:25.880 --> 01:06:27.640] They bring up the firmament, yeah.
[01:06:27.640 --> 01:06:30.040] Yeah, they're not too loud.
[01:06:30.040 --> 01:06:32.440] They're not too annoying right now on TikTok yet.
[01:06:32.440 --> 01:06:33.960] So let's hope it stays that way.
[01:06:33.960 --> 01:06:35.000] Yeah, read the comments, though.
[01:06:35.000 --> 01:06:38.920] You read the comment to anything having to do with anything astronomical, whatever.
[01:06:38.920 --> 01:06:41.240] But that didn't happen on the firmament.
[01:06:41.240 --> 01:06:42.760] You know, come on.
[01:06:45.200 --> 01:06:46.800] You can just hear it.
[01:06:47.120 --> 01:06:47.600] All right.
[01:06:47.600 --> 01:06:48.640] Thanks, Evan.
[01:06:48.640 --> 01:06:53.360] Kara, tell us about this fight between schools and cell phones.
[01:06:53.360 --> 01:06:54.080] Uh-oh.
[01:06:54.080 --> 01:07:04.640] Yeah, so usually when I choose a news item for this show, I look at, you know, published literature, scientific studies that have been published.
[01:07:04.640 --> 01:07:11.280] It's rare that I focus on reporting, just straight reporting, but I think that this is such an important topic.
[01:07:11.280 --> 01:07:14.640] And I don't know, I just really want to open it up to all of you.
[01:07:14.640 --> 01:07:15.600] You all have kids.
[01:07:15.600 --> 01:07:21.760] I do not have kids, but I have worked in a therapeutic capacity with kids for a long time.
[01:07:21.760 --> 01:07:30.560] Most of your kids are grown now, but Jay, yours are right at this age, or they're about to be.
[01:07:30.560 --> 01:07:34.880] The AP recently published an article called Schools Are Competing with Cell Phones.
[01:07:34.880 --> 01:07:36.960] Here's How They Think They Could Win.
[01:07:36.960 --> 01:07:38.960] It was published just a couple of days ago.
[01:07:38.960 --> 01:07:58.800] And so before we even dive into like the numerous examples that they wrote about in their reporting of teachers, parents, and students themselves being like incredibly frustrated by the classroom environment, I was hoping that maybe y'all could paint a little bit of a picture of the differences.
[01:07:58.800 --> 01:08:01.040] We are different generations as it is.
[01:08:01.040 --> 01:08:02.800] I'm a millennial.
[01:08:04.000 --> 01:08:05.520] What are you guys considered?
[01:08:05.520 --> 01:08:05.760] X.
[01:08:05.920 --> 01:08:07.040] We're right.
[01:08:07.040 --> 01:08:07.840] I'm X.
[01:08:07.840 --> 01:08:10.000] Bob and I are boomers, but we're right on the edge.
[01:08:10.160 --> 01:08:10.720] You're on the cuss.
[01:08:11.280 --> 01:08:13.280] It depends how you cut off, but otherwise.
[01:08:13.360 --> 01:08:14.480] We'll call you elder Xers.
[01:08:15.200 --> 01:08:16.000] We're elder Xers.
[01:08:16.800 --> 01:08:19.480] I'm an elder millennial because I'm like, I'm like three years.
[01:08:19.440 --> 01:08:20.520] Yeah, Bob.
[01:08:21.280 --> 01:08:23.200] Call Bob anything but boomer.
[01:08:23.200 --> 01:08:32.920] And then they've got the Gen Z's who came after, and I will be referencing a study on Gen Z's, the Walton family Foundation, Voices of Gen Z study.
[01:08:32.920 --> 01:08:35.080] And then after that, I don't even know what the hell they're called.
[01:08:35.080 --> 01:08:36.760] Like, what are your kids, Jay?
[01:08:29.920 --> 01:08:37.160] Alpha.
[01:08:37.320 --> 01:08:38.040] Are they alphas?
[01:08:38.040 --> 01:08:39.240] They're Gen Alpha, right?
[01:08:39.400 --> 01:08:40.360] I honestly don't know.
[01:08:40.360 --> 01:08:43.160] I don't know what generation it's called.
[01:08:43.160 --> 01:08:45.400] Like, the rest of y'all's kids are Gen Z, right?
[01:08:45.880 --> 01:08:46.360] Yeah.
[01:08:46.360 --> 01:08:48.360] Or some, are any of them millennials?
[01:08:48.360 --> 01:08:49.800] What was the millennial again?
[01:08:49.800 --> 01:08:55.320] Yeah, 80, like 80 to like 95, maybe 89.
[01:08:55.560 --> 01:08:57.320] No, then they're Gen Zers.
[01:08:57.400 --> 01:08:58.680] They're Gen Zers.
[01:08:58.680 --> 01:08:59.960] And alpha would be next.
[01:08:59.960 --> 01:09:00.520] Yeah.
[01:09:00.520 --> 01:09:04.440] So one of the alpha words these days is Riz.
[01:09:04.440 --> 01:09:05.240] You ever heard that?
[01:09:05.560 --> 01:09:06.840] Short for charisma.
[01:09:06.840 --> 01:09:07.000] Yeah.
[01:09:07.240 --> 01:09:07.960] Give it eight toy.
[01:09:08.040 --> 01:09:08.200] Right.
[01:09:08.440 --> 01:09:09.320] So I say that.
[01:09:09.400 --> 01:09:10.040] Exactly.
[01:09:10.040 --> 01:09:10.840] Exactly.
[01:09:11.080 --> 01:09:15.000] I say that to Rachel, who's 21, and she groans in pain.
[01:09:15.240 --> 01:09:15.880] Everybody ever.
[01:09:16.120 --> 01:09:18.360] Evan, you are so brat.
[01:09:20.840 --> 01:09:21.240] Oh, no.
[01:09:21.240 --> 01:09:23.240] This is going to be a little embarrassing for us.
[01:09:23.240 --> 01:09:23.640] Okay.
[01:09:23.880 --> 01:09:24.680] I love it.
[01:09:24.680 --> 01:09:26.040] We are so not cool.
[01:09:26.040 --> 01:09:34.600] So when I was young, I did get a cell phone when I was a teenager, but I was of the era because I was born in 83 where we had pagers.
[01:09:34.600 --> 01:09:37.800] Like we all had these smart beep $1.99 pagers.
[01:09:37.800 --> 01:09:43.080] And so if our parents needed us, they would send us a page and then we would find a phone and call them back.
[01:09:43.080 --> 01:09:50.280] I would say cell phones became much bigger, like as I was finishing high school and definitely into college.
[01:09:50.280 --> 01:09:53.960] But late middle school, early high school, pagers were the thing.
[01:09:53.960 --> 01:09:56.040] You guys didn't have anything like that.
[01:09:56.040 --> 01:09:57.000] Not during school.
[01:09:57.480 --> 01:09:58.360] Not during my school.
[01:09:58.360 --> 01:09:58.840] No.
[01:09:58.840 --> 01:09:59.800] And what about your kiddos?
[01:09:59.800 --> 01:10:01.480] What about the Gen Zers?
[01:10:01.480 --> 01:10:02.600] We'll start with them.
[01:10:02.840 --> 01:10:06.520] Yeah, so our daughters got phones at 10.
[01:10:06.760 --> 01:10:07.960] I think is when we gave them phones.
[01:10:08.120 --> 01:10:09.560] That's about right for Rachel.
[01:10:09.560 --> 01:10:11.080] It was 10 or 11.
[01:10:11.080 --> 01:10:15.200] And when they were in school, were there any rules about cell phones and cell phone usage?
[01:10:14.920 --> 01:10:15.920] What were those rules?
[01:10:16.240 --> 01:10:23.440] Throughout high school, especially when they were in middle school, they had to put their phone in their locker.
[01:10:23.440 --> 01:10:28.000] They could not have it on their person in classroom during class.
[01:10:28.000 --> 01:10:31.600] So there was sort of a, I would assume, an honor system situation.
[01:10:31.600 --> 01:10:32.720] Leave it in your locker.
[01:10:32.720 --> 01:10:35.680] Obviously, if we see it on your person, we know you're breaking the rules.
[01:10:35.680 --> 01:10:38.960] If you see it, it gets taken away from you and you get it at the end of the day.
[01:10:38.960 --> 01:10:40.800] No searches or anything like that.
[01:10:40.800 --> 01:10:41.440] No.
[01:10:41.440 --> 01:10:41.920] Okay.
[01:10:42.320 --> 01:10:43.920] Same for you, Ev and Bob.
[01:10:43.920 --> 01:10:46.640] Those seem to be the similar.
[01:10:46.640 --> 01:10:47.200] Yes.
[01:10:47.200 --> 01:10:50.240] And then, Jay, your kids are young.
[01:10:50.240 --> 01:10:53.840] Any insights into the rules at their schools yet?
[01:10:53.840 --> 01:10:55.840] So my son Dylan's 11.
[01:10:56.080 --> 01:10:58.640] So he's formally starting middle school.
[01:10:58.640 --> 01:11:04.880] And, you know, there has been absolutely no talk of cell phones at all previous to this year.
[01:11:05.440 --> 01:11:08.960] So, as far as I know, most of the kids don't have phones.
[01:11:08.960 --> 01:11:10.000] It's not a thing yet.
[01:11:10.000 --> 01:11:17.920] The teachers this year during orientation were like, we just straight up do not allow the kids access to their phones while school's in session.
[01:11:17.920 --> 01:11:18.400] Good.
[01:11:18.400 --> 01:11:24.480] If they need to call the parent, we'll let them go to the office and then they can use their cell phone to call the parent if they have to.
[01:11:24.560 --> 01:11:25.680] They can't check cell phones.
[01:11:25.680 --> 01:11:26.880] They can't text or whatever.
[01:11:26.880 --> 01:11:29.360] One of my son's friends has a phone.
[01:11:29.520 --> 01:11:32.480] And, you know, my kids talk about getting phones all the time.
[01:11:32.480 --> 01:11:37.360] And my wife and I are like, it's probably going to be not too far away from when you start driving.
[01:11:37.360 --> 01:11:37.600] Right.
[01:11:37.680 --> 01:11:39.280] That's about when I got my phone.
[01:11:39.280 --> 01:11:41.360] It was about when I was driving.
[01:11:41.360 --> 01:11:45.520] And it was like one of those Nokias that you could play snake on.
[01:11:46.240 --> 01:11:46.800] Didn't do much.
[01:11:46.800 --> 01:11:48.320] Couldn't text, that's for sure.
[01:11:48.320 --> 01:11:52.480] So, you wouldn't even spend a lot of time on your phone because it was for calling.
[01:11:52.480 --> 01:11:54.240] Like, that's what we actually use them for.
[01:11:54.240 --> 01:11:54.800] Boring.
[01:11:55.120 --> 01:11:56.240] Boring.
[01:11:56.240 --> 01:11:58.960] Today, kids' phones are on social media.
[01:11:58.960 --> 01:12:00.000] They're on the internet, right?
[01:12:00.200 --> 01:12:02.120] Like, they can do anything and everything on their phones.
[01:12:02.120 --> 01:12:03.720] They can watch television.
[01:12:03.720 --> 01:12:10.440] Educators kind of across the country are complaining that students just aren't engaged at school.
[01:12:10.440 --> 01:12:20.680] Not only are there kind of spikes in mental health issues, especially around COVID, they're struggling with difficult attention, shortened attention spans.
[01:12:20.680 --> 01:12:23.160] Attendance is not great.
[01:12:23.160 --> 01:12:24.760] Academic performance is changing.
[01:12:24.760 --> 01:12:34.520] And I think, you know, I'd be curious to just go see what a classroom looks like now versus the classrooms that we were in.
[01:12:34.520 --> 01:12:45.880] Because the feedback that I'm reading about in a lot of these articles and also that I'm hearing about from parents when I'm working with kids is that the kids are just straight up disengaged at school.
[01:12:45.880 --> 01:12:53.400] That there's not nearly the connection and the attention that teachers were used to.
[01:12:53.400 --> 01:12:58.760] And that the way that they used to write their lesson plans is not, it's not working.
[01:12:58.760 --> 01:13:03.400] And so we're starting to see, as you guys mentioned, more and more cell phone bans.
[01:13:03.720 --> 01:13:07.480] But a lot of teachers and administrators are saying that they're not enough.
[01:13:07.480 --> 01:13:29.320] They think that obviously alternatives to cell phones, like methods for keeping kids more engaged, like having more outdoor time, spending more time in interactive classroom settings, as opposed to just the kind of didactic, you know, teacher at the front, students all facing the teacher structure isn't really working, or would be working if we did it more.
[01:13:29.320 --> 01:13:38.280] There's also been, have any of your kiddos talked about like the cell phone pouches and the bins, kind of like the ones they do in court?
[01:13:38.280 --> 01:13:39.880] That's apparently a thing.
[01:13:40.200 --> 01:13:47.920] Yeah, where there are these pouches that they have to lock their phones in, and then the teacher or the principal has the magnetic key that unlocks it.
[01:13:44.600 --> 01:13:53.840] Because the problem is that if you say leave your phone in your locker, they don't do it.
[01:13:53.840 --> 01:13:57.440] They keep it on their body and then they text under the table.
[01:13:58.320 --> 01:14:00.240] And so kids still have their phones on them.
[01:14:01.520 --> 01:14:02.960] Yeah, and these phones.
[01:14:02.960 --> 01:14:05.200] I mean, think about us at home.
[01:14:05.200 --> 01:14:06.720] Think about adults.
[01:14:06.720 --> 01:14:07.680] We are not in school.
[01:14:07.680 --> 01:14:08.720] Think about us at work.
[01:14:08.720 --> 01:14:12.240] Think about all the times that our phones are competing for our attention.
[01:14:12.720 --> 01:14:13.840] That's why I leave mine on silent.
[01:14:14.240 --> 01:14:14.400] Right.
[01:14:14.800 --> 01:14:15.280] Can't.
[01:14:15.520 --> 01:14:16.880] It would be so distracting.
[01:14:16.880 --> 01:14:17.920] So distracting.
[01:14:17.920 --> 01:14:20.240] I just embrace the distraction.
[01:14:20.880 --> 01:14:24.720] Put yourself in the shoes of a child whose frontal lobe is not fully developed.
[01:14:25.040 --> 01:14:25.520] Serious.
[01:14:26.160 --> 01:14:35.120] Of a child who is struggling to try and fit in, who is struggling because they have so many pressures on them and they have this little box.
[01:14:35.120 --> 01:14:38.160] And this little box offers them distraction.
[01:14:38.160 --> 01:14:39.840] It offers them an escape.
[01:14:39.840 --> 01:14:41.920] It offers them instant gratification.
[01:14:41.920 --> 01:14:43.600] It offers them comfort.
[01:14:43.600 --> 01:14:45.280] It offers them connection.
[01:14:45.280 --> 01:14:50.720] It offers them respite from all the stressors that they're experiencing at school.
[01:14:50.720 --> 01:14:55.120] It's become, I don't even like to use the word addiction.
[01:14:55.440 --> 01:14:59.760] It's something beyond that because it's almost universal.
[01:14:59.760 --> 01:15:01.360] It's hard to call it an addiction.
[01:15:01.360 --> 01:15:03.120] It's the culture.
[01:15:03.120 --> 01:15:11.840] And so, yes, locking up even smartwatches, headphones, other electronics, and engaging in different things.
[01:15:11.840 --> 01:15:23.920] Like there's an initiative in Washington, I think, they're calling Engage IRL, which is like an initiative to try and give students something to look forward to after school.
[01:15:23.920 --> 01:15:33.800] Because even if students are keeping their cell phones out of the classroom, the second class is over, their faces are down, they're walking through the halls glued to their phone.
[01:15:34.120 --> 01:15:40.920] The second school is out, they're going straight to their phones, they're not going to dance class, they're not going to football practice.
[01:15:40.920 --> 01:15:45.480] Some still are, but a lot of kids are struggling with that motivation.
[01:15:45.480 --> 01:15:49.800] And that brings me to that study that I mentioned: the Walton Family Foundation.
[01:15:49.800 --> 01:15:52.120] This is an initiative through Gallup.
[01:15:52.120 --> 01:16:00.520] So Gallup puts on this poll and they asked Gen Zers, so I want to give you the parameters of the kids in this.
[01:16:00.680 --> 01:16:04.760] Sample of 2,271 Gen Z respondents.
[01:16:04.760 --> 01:16:13.720] So these were 12 to 18-year-old kiddos, and then also 18 to 26-year-olds after that.
[01:16:13.720 --> 01:16:15.880] So they were able to kind of compare.
[01:16:15.880 --> 01:16:22.440] When they divided students between two groups, very unhappy, somewhat unhappy, or neither happy nor unhappy.
[01:16:22.440 --> 01:16:27.560] So that's kind of the neutral to unhappy group, versus the very happy or somewhat happy.
[01:16:27.560 --> 01:16:30.440] So these are students who responded in this way.
[01:16:30.440 --> 01:16:36.520] 60% of the happy students said that they feel motivated to go to school.
[01:16:36.520 --> 01:16:40.440] Guess what percent of the unhappy students said they are motivated to go to school?
[01:16:40.440 --> 01:16:40.840] 20.
[01:16:41.000 --> 01:16:41.560] 31.
[01:16:41.560 --> 01:16:41.880] 31.
[01:16:42.200 --> 01:16:42.760] Pretty low.
[01:16:42.760 --> 01:16:43.560] 31.
[01:16:43.560 --> 01:16:51.480] And it's really sad when you dig deeper into some of the questions, like I feel like I do something interesting every day, or I feel motivated to go.
[01:16:51.480 --> 01:16:54.840] I feel like when I'm there, I'm doing something important.
[01:16:55.160 --> 01:17:03.880] You know, kids that are in just across the board, kids that are enrolled in high school or middle school only, 52% feel like they're doing something interesting every day.
[01:17:03.880 --> 01:17:08.840] 51% feel like the things that they do at school are important.
[01:17:09.160 --> 01:17:14.200] Only 48% across the board, that's the average of the statistic I just read you.
[01:17:14.200 --> 01:17:17.360] 48% feel motivated to go to school.
[01:17:14.920 --> 01:17:28.960] And, you know, a lot of teachers and a lot of administrators are starting to support the idea that cell phones have become this like massive sticking point.
[01:17:29.280 --> 01:17:31.840] And so, what do we do about it, right?
[01:17:31.840 --> 01:17:44.480] Like, recently, I think it was just this week, the governor here in California, Gavin Newsom, he started to make a big push to ask school districts to restrict their cell phone use.
[01:17:44.480 --> 01:17:51.680] Like, that this would be coming from the government, not just be, you know, these individual school mandates.
[01:17:51.680 --> 01:17:58.640] We're seeing that more and more states are pushing for legislation to ban cell phone use.
[01:17:58.640 --> 01:18:04.000] And then, here's an interesting angle that the AP reported on that I didn't even think about.
[01:18:04.000 --> 01:18:10.880] You know, I mentioned getting outside, I mentioned not using the phones in school or just not even having access to the phones at school.
[01:18:10.880 --> 01:18:18.560] But here's another angle: stop texting your children throughout the day to check in on them.
[01:18:18.560 --> 01:18:32.320] Apparently, more and more kids are reporting that their parents send them check-in texts throughout the day, and that's distracting them, but it's also pulling them out of the school environment and back into the home setting throughout the day.
[01:18:32.320 --> 01:18:48.320] So, here's a quote from a teacher at Westerville North High School in Columbus, Ohio: Students are so tied to their families, there's this anxiety of not being able to contact them rather than appreciating the freedom of being alone for eight hours or with your friends.
[01:18:48.320 --> 01:18:50.800] Isn't that heartbreaking to hear?
[01:18:51.120 --> 01:18:55.560] It's like just such a different environment than the environment that we grew up in.
[01:18:55.560 --> 01:19:03.320] We're like, our parents trusted that we were okay because we were at school and we were happy to be free.
[01:19:03.880 --> 01:19:08.520] And we were truly free because we weren't constantly looking at our phones.
[01:19:08.520 --> 01:19:11.560] We weren't constantly engaged in social media and texting.
[01:19:11.560 --> 01:19:27.080] You know, I remember working with a family where the daughter had like pretty severe ADHD and we were trying to come up with token economies and different ways that we could reduce her cell phone usage at school because it was really negatively impacting her grades and her engagement at school.
[01:19:27.080 --> 01:19:34.920] And I remember talking to mom and mom was so concerned and she was like, but how can I tell her otherwise when I can't do it myself?
[01:19:35.240 --> 01:19:38.040] I can't leave my phone in the other room.
[01:19:38.040 --> 01:19:40.760] She sees me on my phone all day long.
[01:19:41.080 --> 01:19:43.800] It's become like a generational problem.
[01:19:43.800 --> 01:19:51.960] And I think we forget or we struggle to put ourselves in the shoes of our kids and think about how hard that would be if we had that same issue.
[01:19:52.200 --> 01:19:52.680] So I don't know.
[01:19:52.680 --> 01:19:53.800] It's something to think about, right?
[01:19:54.440 --> 01:19:58.360] I don't want to call it an unsolvable problem, but it's a problem that's not, it's not solved right now.
[01:19:58.600 --> 01:19:59.240] There's trade-offs.
[01:19:59.240 --> 01:20:03.640] It's like that political saying, there are no solutions, there are only trade-offs, right?
[01:20:03.640 --> 01:20:06.280] So we just have to decide what the trade-offs are going to be.
[01:20:06.280 --> 01:20:08.920] I have to say, you talk about parents texting their kids.
[01:20:08.920 --> 01:20:10.600] There have been a few occasions.
[01:20:10.600 --> 01:20:12.680] We didn't do this on a regular basis.
[01:20:12.680 --> 01:20:14.200] Every now and then something comes up.
[01:20:14.200 --> 01:20:22.520] We're like, it would really be logistically helpful if I can contact my daughter at school right now to let her know we have to pick you up to go to the doctor's office or whatever.
[01:20:22.520 --> 01:20:23.880] There's something going on.
[01:20:23.880 --> 01:20:26.360] And it is very convenient and somewhat annoying.
[01:20:26.360 --> 01:20:28.920] It was like, oh, she doesn't have her phone on her because they took her from her.
[01:20:28.920 --> 01:20:31.000] So we have no way of getting in touch with her.
[01:20:31.000 --> 01:20:35.800] And it just makes your day harder or whatever, because just logistically, it would be very convenient.
[01:20:35.800 --> 01:20:36.840] So, I get that, but you're right.
[01:20:37.240 --> 01:20:38.200] Talk about the trade-off, right?
[01:20:39.480 --> 01:20:43.320] What would your mom have done if she needed to pick you up to go to the doctor?
[01:20:43.320 --> 01:20:49.120] Yeah, but see, that's unfair because we did not grow up in a two-working parent family.
[01:20:44.760 --> 01:20:50.640] We had a full-time mother.
[01:20:51.520 --> 01:20:52.400] Well, you're right, that's not fair.
[01:20:52.400 --> 01:20:52.880] Okay, yeah.
[01:20:54.320 --> 01:20:58.560] Parents are at work, and like we have to juggle this problem, you know, of who's going to do what.
[01:20:58.560 --> 01:21:03.280] And anyway, no, but I guess I was trying to lead to an answer.
[01:21:03.520 --> 01:21:03.920] Yeah, go ahead.
[01:21:04.800 --> 01:21:12.560] If I were to ask myself, you know, what would my mom, who is a single-working mom, do if she needed to pick me up from school early, she would call the front office.
[01:21:12.560 --> 01:21:12.960] Yeah.
[01:21:13.200 --> 01:21:17.120] She would call the front office and say, hey, I need to pick my kid up early for school.
[01:21:17.120 --> 01:21:18.320] Can somebody inform her?
[01:21:18.320 --> 01:21:20.320] Yeah, obviously, we did whatever we had to do, right?
[01:21:20.320 --> 01:21:20.960] There were other options.
[01:21:21.120 --> 01:21:21.440] Exactly.
[01:21:22.000 --> 01:21:27.520] I forget the exact scenarios, but again, it just were situations where it absolutely would have been very convenient to be able to contact her.
[01:21:27.760 --> 01:21:32.800] Sure, but is that one, you know, convenience twice a year worth the terrible trade-off?
[01:21:32.800 --> 01:21:34.800] No, it's just annoying when it happens, but I hear you.
[01:21:35.440 --> 01:21:38.640] And it's also, like, you asked us what we model for our kids.
[01:21:38.640 --> 01:21:43.840] Like, when we're having dinner at a restaurant or something together, or at home, you know, whatever, it's no cell phones, right?
[01:21:43.840 --> 01:21:45.360] Everyone puts their cell phones down.
[01:21:45.360 --> 01:21:46.720] We all want to check our phones.
[01:21:46.720 --> 01:21:47.520] You know what I mean?
[01:21:47.520 --> 01:21:51.600] But if we do it, then our kids will immediately do it and they're lost in their phone.
[01:21:51.600 --> 01:21:56.480] So we have to just like keep each other honest and say, yeah, no cell phones at dinner.
[01:21:56.480 --> 01:21:57.280] This is family time.
[01:21:57.280 --> 01:21:58.640] We talk to each other.
[01:21:58.640 --> 01:22:00.000] So you have to put limits.
[01:22:00.000 --> 01:22:00.880] And that's what you like.
[01:22:01.040 --> 01:22:09.360] Like the pediatric recommendations are not so much to limit screen time, but to maximize non-screen time.
[01:22:09.360 --> 01:22:10.080] 100%.
[01:22:10.080 --> 01:22:11.200] Yeah, which is a little bit different.
[01:22:11.200 --> 01:22:12.720] You know, it's like, let's have a look at the phone.
[01:22:12.880 --> 01:22:13.520] It's a different framing.
[01:22:13.520 --> 01:22:14.320] Yeah, it's a different framing.
[01:22:14.720 --> 01:22:16.000] It's the same thing at school, right?
[01:22:16.000 --> 01:22:19.200] The issue is not that the phones themselves are bad for the kids.
[01:22:19.200 --> 01:22:22.560] The issue is that the phones are preventing the kids from learning.
[01:22:22.560 --> 01:22:25.680] They're preventing the kids from paying attention during the day.
[01:22:25.680 --> 01:22:27.760] And that's an important point to make.
[01:22:27.760 --> 01:22:47.400] And I think also to your point, Steve, like for everybody listening to this right now and really sitting with it and chewing on it put yourselves really try to exercise empathy and put yourselves in the shoes of your of your child and then ask yourself when i get angry at them for their relationship with their phone, am I being fair?
[01:22:47.400 --> 01:22:56.360] Am I modeling terrible behavior and expecting them to somehow have more capability to inhibit themselves than I do?
[01:22:56.360 --> 01:22:58.200] Because that's unfair.
[01:22:58.440 --> 01:23:02.280] We need to be modeling this kind of good behavior, but it starts with us.
[01:23:02.920 --> 01:23:08.120] I got to tell you, I got to tell you, my daughter with her phone is a mutant.
[01:23:08.120 --> 01:23:13.080] She, I could text her and it could be a couple of days.
[01:23:13.080 --> 01:23:23.960] She just likes, she makes a concerted effort to not make that phone an addiction or something that she needs to obsessively check.
[01:23:23.960 --> 01:23:27.560] I don't know how she does it, but put her in the Department of Education.
[01:23:27.560 --> 01:23:30.280] I'm proud of her, and it's like, that's great.
[01:23:30.280 --> 01:23:33.000] And that's something I could never do.
[01:23:33.320 --> 01:23:33.960] Yeah.
[01:23:33.960 --> 01:23:34.360] Yeah.
[01:23:34.360 --> 01:23:41.000] And no, you know, 12-year-old is going to be able to do that, not without a lot of support and a lot of boundaries.
[01:23:41.000 --> 01:23:42.840] And, you know, they start with you.
[01:23:42.840 --> 01:23:53.000] And I think that, you know, that also leads to, and we've talked about this before on the show, we cannot expect school to completely save a child from their home environment.
[01:23:53.720 --> 01:23:58.120] Like, yes, it is a massive respite for a lot of kids who are going through stuff.
[01:23:58.120 --> 01:24:00.520] And like, thank goodness for that.
[01:24:00.520 --> 01:24:16.720] But if a child is wildly shifting between specific boundaries at school and specific boundaries at home, and that inconsistency is there day to day to day, that's also not conducive to kind of establishing good behaviors.
[01:24:14.840 --> 01:24:21.760] So, you know, if you expect school to do it, try and maintain the same boundary at home.
[01:24:22.880 --> 01:24:23.520] Yeah.
[01:24:23.520 --> 01:24:24.000] All right.
[01:24:24.000 --> 01:24:25.280] Thanks, Kara.
[01:24:25.280 --> 01:24:30.720] I'm no tech genius, but I knew if I wanted my business to crush it, I needed a website now.
[01:24:30.720 --> 01:24:32.720] Thankfully, Bluehost made it easy.
[01:24:32.720 --> 01:24:37.440] I customized, optimized, and monetized everything exactly how I wanted with AI.
[01:24:37.440 --> 01:24:39.200] In minutes, my site was up.
[01:24:39.200 --> 01:24:40.240] I couldn't believe it.
[01:24:40.240 --> 01:24:43.280] The search engine tools even helped me get more site visitors.
[01:24:43.280 --> 01:24:46.720] Whatever your passion project is, you can set it up with Bluehost.
[01:24:46.720 --> 01:24:49.760] With their 30-day money-back guarantee, what do you got to lose?
[01:24:49.760 --> 01:24:51.440] Head to bluehost.com.
[01:24:51.440 --> 01:24:55.600] That's B-L-U-E-H-O-S-T.com to start now.
[01:24:55.920 --> 01:25:00.320] You probably think it's too soon to join AARP, right?
[01:25:00.320 --> 01:25:02.640] Well, let's take a minute to talk about it.
[01:25:02.640 --> 01:25:05.360] Where do you see yourself in 15 years?
[01:25:05.360 --> 01:25:09.760] More specifically, your career, your health, your social life.
[01:25:09.760 --> 01:25:12.480] What are you doing now to help you get there?
[01:25:12.480 --> 01:25:17.840] There are tons of ways for you to start preparing today for your future with AARP.
[01:25:17.840 --> 01:25:19.920] That dream job you've dreamt about?
[01:25:19.920 --> 01:25:24.000] Sign up for AARP reskilling courses to help make it a reality.
[01:25:24.000 --> 01:25:28.800] How about that active lifestyle you've only spoken about from the couch?
[01:25:28.800 --> 01:25:33.840] AARP has health tips and wellness tools to keep you moving for years to come.
[01:25:33.840 --> 01:25:37.840] But none of these experiences are without making friends along the way.
[01:25:37.840 --> 01:25:41.760] Connect with your community through AARP volunteer events.
[01:25:41.760 --> 01:25:46.160] So it's safe to say it's never too soon to join AARP.
[01:25:46.160 --> 01:25:50.400] They're here to help your money, health, and happiness live as long as you do.
[01:25:50.400 --> 01:25:54.560] That's why the younger you are, the more you need AARP.
[01:25:54.560 --> 01:25:58.800] Learn more at AARP.org/slash wise friend.
[01:25:58.800 --> 01:26:00.920] This is where projects come to life.
[01:26:01.240 --> 01:26:11.480] Our showrooms are designed to inspire with the latest products from top brands curated in an inviting, hands-on environment, and a team of industry experts to support your project.
[01:26:11.480 --> 01:26:16.920] We'll be there to make sure everything goes as planned: from product selection to delivery coordination.
[01:26:16.920 --> 01:26:22.120] At Ferguson Bath Kitchen and Lighting Gallery, your project is our priority.
[01:26:22.120 --> 01:26:27.160] Discover great brands like Kohler at your local Ferguson showroom.
[01:26:29.080 --> 01:26:32.840] So I initially chose FDU because it was affordable and it worked with my budget.
[01:26:32.840 --> 01:26:42.440] I had no idea I was going to be pursuing a career in pharmacy, but it was over the years and meeting different professors that really enlightened me and showed me that I have what it takes to become a pharmacist.
[01:26:42.600 --> 01:26:43.640] I honestly believe that.
[01:26:43.800 --> 01:26:45.640] It did change my life.
[01:26:45.960 --> 01:26:47.960] Jay, it's who's that noisy time?
[01:26:47.960 --> 01:26:50.360] Last week I played this noisy.
[01:27:04.680 --> 01:27:06.840] Has a theremin quality to it.
[01:27:06.840 --> 01:27:08.040] Kara, what do you hear?
[01:27:08.200 --> 01:27:13.000] It's like a, I don't know, some sort of animal playing kazoo.
[01:27:13.320 --> 01:27:13.880] No?
[01:27:13.880 --> 01:27:14.760] All right, that's interesting.
[01:27:14.760 --> 01:27:15.800] Bob, you got anything?
[01:27:15.800 --> 01:27:16.600] Nobody guessed that.
[01:27:16.600 --> 01:27:17.240] That's surprising.
[01:27:17.320 --> 01:27:17.640] Nothing.
[01:27:17.640 --> 01:27:18.440] I got nothing.
[01:27:18.440 --> 01:27:18.920] All right.
[01:27:18.920 --> 01:27:22.600] Well, a listener named Benjamin DeVolt Devault.
[01:27:22.600 --> 01:27:25.160] Benjamin, I have a deficit here.
[01:27:25.800 --> 01:27:26.760] He says, Hi, Jay.
[01:27:26.760 --> 01:27:27.400] Ben here.
[01:27:27.400 --> 01:27:29.480] The French guy in Kyoto.
[01:27:29.480 --> 01:27:30.360] Is it Kyoto?
[01:27:30.360 --> 01:27:30.840] Kyoto.
[01:27:31.160 --> 01:27:31.720] Kyoto.
[01:27:31.720 --> 01:27:32.200] I got it.
[01:27:32.200 --> 01:27:32.520] See that?
[01:27:32.520 --> 01:27:32.920] Not bad.
[01:27:33.720 --> 01:27:35.560] He said, well, this is the theremin.
[01:27:35.560 --> 01:27:36.360] No doubt about that.
[01:27:36.360 --> 01:27:41.400] I just hope you don't need more info like how the sounds were made by moving hands really fast.
[01:27:41.400 --> 01:27:42.200] Yeah, Jay.
[01:27:42.200 --> 01:27:46.160] And then he said, I assume a lot of people will guess correctly and Kara will be happy.
[01:27:46.160 --> 01:27:47.200] You are incorrect.
[01:27:44.840 --> 01:27:51.120] I knew that I was going to get a theremin as a guess, but it's fine.
[01:27:51.280 --> 01:27:54.000] You know, that is a good default for that type of sound.
[01:27:54.000 --> 01:27:56.640] I have another listener here named Shane Hillier.
[01:27:56.640 --> 01:28:02.320] Shane says, Jason, this is for sure the world's premier squeaky balloon player.
[01:28:02.640 --> 01:28:04.160] You guys know how to play squeaky balloon?
[01:28:04.640 --> 01:28:05.040] Yeah.
[01:28:05.360 --> 01:28:05.760] Okay.
[01:28:05.760 --> 01:28:11.040] Yeah, he describes it, but you can make lots of different sounds with that, but that is not it either.
[01:28:11.040 --> 01:28:16.240] Another listener named Adam Hill wrote in and said, Hello, Jay, this week's who's that noisy sounds like a theremin.
[01:28:16.240 --> 01:28:23.600] Specifically, it sounds like the Curiosity rover on Mars is going a little stir-crazy and started singing to itself in odd bleeps and bloops.
[01:28:24.320 --> 01:28:38.000] I added that one in because Adam said that the Mars, you know, the Curiosity rover on Mars is going crazy and making funny noises, and that would be hysterical if they cued sounds like this when things started to go badly and just started to kind of make funny noises and flash.
[01:28:38.000 --> 01:28:38.480] I don't know.
[01:28:38.480 --> 01:28:39.760] I just think that's funny.
[01:28:39.760 --> 01:28:41.200] Another listener named Brian A.
[01:28:41.360 --> 01:28:46.400] wrote in and said, This is someone playing a flute made from a plastic drinking slot, straw.
[01:28:46.400 --> 01:28:53.680] You flatten one end, cut it to a triangular point, add a few holes to change the notes, then proceed to annoy the hell out of everyone.
[01:28:53.680 --> 01:28:54.800] I have never done that.
[01:28:54.880 --> 01:28:57.440] Sounds like fun, but that is not correct.
[01:28:57.440 --> 01:28:59.440] All right, I have a listener from last week.
[01:28:59.520 --> 01:29:05.120] Listener's name is Griffin Adams, and Griffin guesses it's a glissotar.
[01:29:05.120 --> 01:29:06.400] It's a glissotar, guys.
[01:29:06.400 --> 01:29:07.600] You know what that is?
[01:29:07.600 --> 01:29:08.240] Nope.
[01:29:08.240 --> 01:29:08.560] No.
[01:29:08.880 --> 01:29:10.800] It's like something from Star Trek.
[01:29:10.800 --> 01:29:22.400] So a Glycotar is the first member of the Glissonic instrument family designed to give wind players unprecedented flexibility with glissando.
[01:29:22.400 --> 01:29:24.080] Do you guys know what glissando is?
[01:29:25.040 --> 01:29:26.000] That's like a.
[01:29:27.280 --> 01:29:29.040] Yeah, it's a music notation.
[01:29:29.040 --> 01:29:31.400] But I don't think you can do it with a voice, can you?
[01:29:31.400 --> 01:29:35.080] It's called a continuous slide upward or downward between two notes.
[01:29:35.080 --> 01:29:36.040] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:29:29.840 --> 01:29:37.080] So, like, sliding the notes.
[01:29:37.480 --> 01:29:40.680] I was thinking Sforzando, which is like loud and then quiet and all loud.
[01:29:40.840 --> 01:29:49.800] So, this instrument has a magnetic strap instead of keys, and the glissitar gives its user this vast range of new playing possibilities.
[01:29:49.800 --> 01:29:53.800] And as you heard, and I'll play the audio again, there's lots of different sounds coming out of this thing.
[01:29:53.800 --> 01:30:08.280] So, it's based on the soprano saxophone, is made of amaranth, which is a naturally purple wood, and it has a range of 2.5 octaves, two octave keys, and can be used with a soprano saxophone mouthpiece.
[01:30:08.280 --> 01:30:08.840] Check it out.
[01:30:09.240 --> 01:30:12.360] This is basically a new instrument.
[01:30:26.440 --> 01:30:27.320] Kind of annoying.
[01:30:27.320 --> 01:30:28.360] It is a little annoying.
[01:30:28.360 --> 01:30:29.320] Kind of annoying.
[01:30:29.320 --> 01:30:32.760] Kind of like Kara's statement about candy corn.
[01:30:32.760 --> 01:30:33.800] Four things, Kara.
[01:30:35.400 --> 01:30:38.200] Four things I just researched.
[01:30:38.200 --> 01:30:43.720] Gen X is the most likely to enjoy eating candy corn with 68% FYI.
[01:30:43.720 --> 01:30:44.120] Uh-huh.
[01:30:44.440 --> 01:30:45.080] Not boomers.
[01:30:45.240 --> 01:30:46.280] Yeah, not boomers, Kara.
[01:30:46.600 --> 01:30:51.160] No, well, the fact that boomers were slightly less than 56 is irrelevant.
[01:30:52.120 --> 01:30:57.560] Candy corn is slightly less popular, slightly less popular with younger generations.
[01:30:57.560 --> 01:30:58.200] Uh-huh.
[01:30:58.520 --> 01:31:00.280] And two more, halfway done.
[01:31:00.280 --> 01:31:05.640] Americans hate to receive candy corn the most on Halloween, I guess, compared to other.
[01:31:05.800 --> 01:31:12.040] And my favorite factoid or fact, whatever, California residents consume more than any other state.
[01:31:12.760 --> 01:31:13.800] Interesting.
[01:31:13.800 --> 01:31:17.920] But that, because the population is more than any other state.
[01:31:18.320 --> 01:31:18.640] That's crazy.
[01:31:18.720 --> 01:31:19.360] Is that per capita?
[01:31:19.920 --> 01:31:21.840] I bet you they consume a million other things.
[01:31:22.160 --> 01:31:23.840] Bob, was that per capita or 10 corn?
[01:31:24.080 --> 01:31:25.600] That's all I got, friend.
[01:31:25.920 --> 01:31:28.320] Well, the capital of California is Sacramento.
[01:31:28.320 --> 01:31:29.920] You have to qualify your statistic, Bob.
[01:31:29.920 --> 01:31:31.120] It's a worthless statistic.
[01:31:31.440 --> 01:31:32.560] I have a new notion for you guys.
[01:31:32.880 --> 01:31:34.400] I still love saying it.
[01:31:34.720 --> 01:31:38.720] Did you say people on average hate receiving the candy?
[01:31:39.360 --> 01:31:41.840] It said Americans hate to receive candy corn the most.
[01:31:42.240 --> 01:31:45.440] So I guess other countries like it more than we do.
[01:31:45.680 --> 01:31:48.160] When you say receive, you mean when you're trick-or-treating?
[01:31:48.160 --> 01:31:49.280] He said on Halloween.
[01:31:49.280 --> 01:31:50.080] Yeah, that's right.
[01:31:50.080 --> 01:31:50.240] Yes.
[01:31:50.480 --> 01:31:52.320] Well, on Halloween is vague.
[01:31:52.640 --> 01:31:55.920] Specifically, trick-or-treating or just at any time related to Halloween.
[01:31:56.160 --> 01:31:58.240] Americans hate to receive candy corn the most.
[01:31:59.840 --> 01:32:01.600] That's got to be trick-or-treating.
[01:32:02.960 --> 01:32:03.600] We're off the rails.
[01:32:05.760 --> 01:32:07.760] Honestly, Americans trick-or-treat, not other countries.
[01:32:09.920 --> 01:32:15.520] Kara is in her house and she accidentally eats candy corn.
[01:32:15.520 --> 01:32:16.240] Yes.
[01:32:16.400 --> 01:32:17.280] What do you mean?
[01:32:18.240 --> 01:32:20.800] Yeah, that would be my reaction.
[01:32:22.080 --> 01:32:28.640] But my point is, Bob, they may not like getting it for trick-or-treat because it's loose, not because they don't like candy corn.
[01:32:28.640 --> 01:32:30.320] You don't want to get a bunch of candy.
[01:32:30.480 --> 01:32:31.040] You want to have something that's going to be a good thing.
[01:32:31.200 --> 01:32:33.360] No, it's because candy corn is awful, objectively.
[01:32:33.360 --> 01:32:34.320] No, nobody gives that.
[01:32:34.480 --> 01:32:35.520] Hey, guys, write us some emails.
[01:32:35.520 --> 01:32:37.440] Let us know.
[01:32:37.680 --> 01:32:40.400] Have you ever had the chocolate candy corn?
[01:32:40.880 --> 01:32:42.080] Yes, they do have flavors.
[01:32:42.080 --> 01:32:42.480] Those are good.
[01:32:42.720 --> 01:32:43.200] I don't.
[01:32:43.200 --> 01:32:43.680] No.
[01:32:43.680 --> 01:32:43.840] No.
[01:32:44.000 --> 01:32:44.240] Yeah.
[01:32:44.560 --> 01:32:44.880] What do you mean?
[01:32:44.880 --> 01:32:44.960] No.
[01:32:45.440 --> 01:32:46.480] It's not my favorite.
[01:32:46.480 --> 01:32:50.400] You give me peanut butter cup any damn day, and that's like top of the list.
[01:32:50.360 --> 01:32:57.400] And Kara, if you're dexterous, you could pretend that the candy corn are your canine teeth.
[01:32:56.640 --> 01:33:03.960] This is such an interesting window into your childhood.
[01:33:04.520 --> 01:33:06.440] Kids love those Nesco wafers.
[01:33:06.440 --> 01:33:08.600] Candy of the Year from 1921.
[01:33:08.920 --> 01:33:10.520] Yeah, my God.
[01:33:11.160 --> 01:33:13.320] They are nasty and chalky, and my mom loves them.
[01:33:13.400 --> 01:33:13.880] They are nasty.
[01:33:14.200 --> 01:33:15.320] Exactly right.
[01:33:15.800 --> 01:33:17.000] Generational.
[01:33:17.000 --> 01:33:17.960] Yep.
[01:33:18.840 --> 01:33:19.400] So, Jay.
[01:33:19.560 --> 01:33:20.840] Jay, do you have a new noisy?
[01:33:20.840 --> 01:33:22.520] Oh, Jay, yeah, where have you been?
[01:33:22.840 --> 01:33:24.200] I have a noisy.
[01:33:24.200 --> 01:33:27.240] This is from a listener named Candace Dennison.
[01:33:45.400 --> 01:33:48.920] I picked this one, Bob, because it's a great sound for Halloween.
[01:33:48.920 --> 01:33:49.720] My God, yeah.
[01:33:50.280 --> 01:33:50.760] I know what it is.
[01:33:51.640 --> 01:33:52.280] I know what it is, too.
[01:33:52.360 --> 01:33:54.440] It's a soundscape from Dagobah.
[01:33:56.200 --> 01:33:59.160] It's a bunch of crickets with something else making a noise over there.
[01:33:59.960 --> 01:34:01.320] I had to whack back the crickets.
[01:34:01.320 --> 01:34:02.600] The crickets were crazy loud.
[01:34:02.840 --> 01:34:04.280] I told you it was a cricket noisy.
[01:34:04.280 --> 01:34:10.440] But, Bob, yeah, you know, when I reveal this next week, and I'll tell you all about it, like, this is a really cool sound to use.
[01:34:10.440 --> 01:34:17.560] So, anyway, guys, if you think you know what this week's noisy is or you heard something cool, you can email me at wtn at the skepticsguy.org.
[01:34:17.560 --> 01:34:18.840] We have events coming up.
[01:34:18.840 --> 01:34:20.520] We will be at SciCon.
[01:34:20.520 --> 01:34:23.800] That is going to be the last weekend of October, correct, Steve?
[01:34:24.200 --> 01:34:24.440] Yes.
[01:34:24.760 --> 01:34:27.080] And the web address for that is what, Steve?
[01:34:27.080 --> 01:34:28.360] Sciconference.org.
[01:34:28.360 --> 01:34:30.040] CSIconference.org.
[01:34:30.040 --> 01:34:35.160] We will be having a private SGU podcast recording on December 6th.
[01:34:35.160 --> 01:34:36.040] That's Friday.
[01:34:36.040 --> 01:34:39.160] And then we will be having an extravaganza on Saturday, the 7th.
[01:34:39.640 --> 01:34:42.040] You could buy tickets right now for the extravaganza.
[01:34:42.040 --> 01:34:43.320] That is up on our website.
[01:34:43.320 --> 01:34:44.440] The private show.
[01:34:44.440 --> 01:34:50.560] I'm hoping, again, like I said last week, within a week, I should have the link up there so you guys can start buying tickets for that as well.
[01:34:50.880 --> 01:34:53.680] And Steve, Noticon 2025.
[01:34:53.920 --> 01:34:55.760] Yep, preliminary discussions are happening.
[01:34:56.080 --> 01:34:58.000] Preliminary discussions have happened right now.
[01:34:58.000 --> 01:35:00.080] The preliminary weekend is May 16th.
[01:35:00.080 --> 01:35:01.520] That's the weekend I'm shooting for.
[01:35:01.520 --> 01:35:03.360] I'm talking to hotels right now.
[01:35:03.360 --> 01:35:06.720] So I'm hoping, you know, within a week or two, I'll be able to lock something in.
[01:35:06.720 --> 01:35:07.200] Okay.
[01:35:07.200 --> 01:35:07.520] All right.
[01:35:07.520 --> 01:35:08.320] Thank you, Jay.
[01:35:09.200 --> 01:35:11.680] One or two emails, depending on how long this takes.
[01:35:11.680 --> 01:35:23.600] First one comes from a listener, and they write, the slippery slope is technically an informal logical fallacy, but in American politics, has it become more like a tactic?
[01:35:23.600 --> 01:35:27.440] In the early 1990s, I considered myself in the center of the political spectrum.
[01:35:27.440 --> 01:35:30.640] Without moving my own thinking much, I am now leaning far out to the left.
[01:35:31.440 --> 01:35:45.760] The point of that is that I have watched certain issues, and it does seem that both sides, with the right being more successful, have used wedge issue laws and rulings to move the acceptable point of view, then pushed for stronger, more partisan laws.
[01:35:45.760 --> 01:35:50.160] So is the slippery slope becoming an intentional tactic?
[01:35:50.160 --> 01:35:52.720] Well, is he talking about the Overton window?
[01:35:52.960 --> 01:35:53.680] I mean, that's part.
[01:35:53.760 --> 01:35:55.680] It's kind of different than slippery slope.
[01:35:55.680 --> 01:36:05.680] Yeah, I mean, the Overton window is just the range of political, the spectrum of political opinions depends on where your center is, like where you are.
[01:36:05.680 --> 01:36:05.840] Right.
[01:36:05.840 --> 01:36:10.800] And what we consider left is actually a little bit to the right in Europe, you know.
[01:36:10.800 --> 01:36:11.200] Totally.
[01:36:11.200 --> 01:36:12.160] It's a good example.
[01:36:12.160 --> 01:36:19.600] But I think his core point here is the slippery slope, an intentional tactic that is used in politics.
[01:36:19.920 --> 01:36:22.320] I think, well, he's saying, is it becoming intentional?
[01:36:22.320 --> 01:36:24.080] It's always been intentional.
[01:36:24.080 --> 01:36:25.600] I don't think this is anything new.
[01:36:25.600 --> 01:36:29.440] This is going back as far as I can remember where slippery slope.
[01:36:29.440 --> 01:36:36.360] So the slippery slope slip slope logical fallacy again, informal logical fallacies are context-dependent and not absolute.
[01:36:36.680 --> 01:36:43.560] So that doesn't mean that every argument that takes this form is necessarily unsound.
[01:36:43.560 --> 01:36:47.720] But it becomes a logical fallacy when you take it to extremes.
[01:36:47.720 --> 01:37:02.200] And basically the format of the slippery slope fallacy is that, well, if we allow for something to a certain degree, it will necessarily go to the extreme along some spectrum that I'm determining.
[01:37:02.760 --> 01:37:03.000] Right.
[01:37:03.000 --> 01:37:07.080] Like the most famous and insulting was around the debate around gay marriage.
[01:37:07.240 --> 01:37:11.960] And we would see people go, well, once you can marry the same sex, you're going to be able to marry dogs and stuff.
[01:37:11.960 --> 01:37:12.920] Yeah, right, exactly.
[01:37:13.320 --> 01:37:13.800] And it's like that.
[01:37:14.600 --> 01:37:18.680] If we open it up to same-sex marriage, then people will be marrying animals down there.
[01:37:18.840 --> 01:37:20.680] That's a classic slippery slope argument.
[01:37:21.000 --> 01:37:25.480] Or it's like, well, if you pass a seatbelt law, then what's the next thing they're going to be mandating?
[01:37:25.480 --> 01:37:27.880] Then they'd be coming into your home and whatever.
[01:37:28.600 --> 01:37:28.760] Right.
[01:37:28.760 --> 01:37:30.120] It's going to be more unregulated.
[01:37:31.000 --> 01:37:32.440] They're going to take our guns.
[01:37:32.440 --> 01:37:32.680] Yeah.
[01:37:32.680 --> 01:37:37.560] It's like if you give an inch, then necessarily they're going to take a mile, right?
[01:37:37.560 --> 01:37:43.000] Or then it's the necessarily part that makes it a logical fallacy.
[01:37:43.720 --> 01:37:52.040] Or that, you know, that anywhere along that spectrum necessarily leads to the most extreme part of that spectrum.
[01:37:52.600 --> 01:37:54.120] Steve, that's not a bug.
[01:37:54.120 --> 01:37:55.160] That's a feature.
[01:37:55.160 --> 01:37:57.560] Like, that's what logical fallacies by definition are.
[01:37:57.560 --> 01:38:03.160] They're argument techniques that have the potential to be not sound.
[01:38:03.120 --> 01:38:05.240] Well, but they are often used in rhetoric.
[01:38:05.240 --> 01:38:06.120] That's the whole point.
[01:38:06.120 --> 01:38:25.360] Well, yeah, well, I think what from framing that slightly differently, I think what you're saying is that rhetorical strategies often deliberately use informal logical fallacies in order to make arguments that serve an end, that end not being logic and the truth, but being a point, right?
[01:38:25.360 --> 01:38:26.720] So lawyers do this all the time.
[01:38:26.960 --> 01:38:31.280] Changing people's behavior, like literally persuading people.
[01:38:31.280 --> 01:38:31.600] Right.
[01:38:32.000 --> 01:38:33.040] Lawyers do this all the time.
[01:38:33.040 --> 01:38:35.840] Like they will use arguments they don't necessarily have to agree with.
[01:38:35.840 --> 01:38:39.920] That's not their job to make a correct point.
[01:38:39.920 --> 01:38:43.360] Their job is to defend their client, whatever that is, in their client's interest.
[01:38:43.360 --> 01:38:51.600] And they use any argument they think they can get away with, basically, whether or not it's strictly logically valid or not.
[01:38:52.160 --> 01:38:52.960] Right, that doesn't matter.
[01:38:52.960 --> 01:38:54.720] A lawyer can't go objection.
[01:38:54.720 --> 01:38:55.040] Yeah.
[01:38:55.120 --> 01:38:56.400] Slippery slope.
[01:38:56.400 --> 01:38:57.120] Right, right.
[01:38:58.160 --> 01:38:59.040] World.
[01:38:59.680 --> 01:39:01.200] I'm going to allow it.
[01:39:02.480 --> 01:39:09.600] So, so, yeah, I think, yeah, within politics, I think it's, you know, I both despise and am fascinated by politics.
[01:39:09.680 --> 01:39:25.040] I despise the fact that it is an inherently illogical endeavor, you know, in that the persuasion is prioritized over all else rather than the truth or finding common ground or honesty or virtue.
[01:39:25.040 --> 01:39:27.440] Although people, politicians do take different strategies.
[01:39:27.440 --> 01:39:30.160] There are sort of virtue-based politicians, et cetera.
[01:39:30.160 --> 01:39:38.160] But generally speaking, the center of gravity of political speech is persuasive, whether or not it's scientific or logically valid.
[01:39:38.320 --> 01:39:39.440] I find that annoying.
[01:39:39.440 --> 01:39:44.400] But I also find it fascinating because it is sort of its own logical game.
[01:39:44.400 --> 01:39:53.280] And it's good to dissect what they are they doing, you know, what is the logical error they are making in service to their political ideology.
[01:39:53.440 --> 01:39:59.880] It's a great target-rich environment for like a name-that logical fallacy kind of endeavor.
[01:40:00.040 --> 01:40:00.840] And this is one.
[01:39:59.440 --> 01:40:02.040] So, I agree with the observation.
[01:40:02.200 --> 01:40:07.320] I just think that this is, as far as I can tell, this has always been going on using the slippery slope.
[01:40:07.320 --> 01:40:13.000] And as Kara says, other logical fallacies for rhetorical advantage is as old as politics.
[01:40:13.000 --> 01:40:15.320] Yeah, it's as old as people arguing.
[01:40:15.320 --> 01:40:16.680] Yeah, exactly.
[01:40:16.680 --> 01:40:18.440] That's why we had to identify that.
[01:40:18.440 --> 01:40:18.760] Right.
[01:40:19.000 --> 01:40:24.440] Like, that's why you take a course in logic in college so that you can learn it.
[01:40:24.680 --> 01:40:32.200] Yeah, yeah, not everybody does, but that's why one takes a course in college is to learn when arguments aren't sound.
[01:40:32.840 --> 01:40:36.760] All right, let's go on with science or fiction.
[01:40:39.000 --> 01:40:48.920] It's time for science or fiction each week.
[01:40:48.920 --> 01:40:56.840] I come up with three science news items or facts, two real and one fake, and I challenge my panel of skeptics to sniff out the fake.
[01:40:56.840 --> 01:40:59.240] Just three regular news items this week.
[01:40:59.320 --> 01:41:00.040] You guys ready?
[01:41:00.040 --> 01:41:00.440] Yep.
[01:41:00.440 --> 01:41:13.560] Item number one: a new study finds that substituting team nursing, substituting lower-wage staff for some RNs, can save hospitals significant operating costs without any adverse effects on outcomes.
[01:41:13.560 --> 01:41:29.560] I number two: researchers find that pet dogs trained on soundboards are able to recognize and respond appropriately to spoken words, even if produced by a sound board or someone who is not their owner, without any nonverbal cues.
[01:41:29.880 --> 01:41:38.120] And item number three: NASA scientists have demonstrated for the first time the existence of a global electrostatic field.
[01:41:38.120 --> 01:41:39.960] And yes, I do mean on Earth.
[01:41:39.960 --> 01:41:40.920] Jay, go first.
[01:41:40.920 --> 01:41:54.640] A new study finds that substituting team nursing, substituting lower-wage staff for some RNs, that's a registered nurse, saves hospitals significant operating costs without any adverse effects on outcomes.
[01:41:54.960 --> 01:41:59.600] So you're saying taking an L VN out and putting an RN in her place, for example?
[01:41:59.600 --> 01:41:59.840] No.
[01:42:00.640 --> 01:42:01.520] The opposite.
[01:42:01.520 --> 01:42:10.560] So instead of having six nurses, you have four nurses, but they're helped less expensive and less trained helping.
[01:42:10.800 --> 01:42:11.200] I see.
[01:42:11.360 --> 01:42:15.600] So instead of six RNs, you've got four RNs and two clinical partners.
[01:42:15.600 --> 01:42:16.880] Or three or four clinical partners.
[01:42:16.960 --> 01:42:17.840] Yeah, three clinical partners.
[01:42:17.920 --> 01:42:18.240] Okay, okay.
[01:42:18.240 --> 01:42:18.720] That makes sense.
[01:42:18.800 --> 01:42:19.440] Or more.
[01:42:19.440 --> 01:42:20.240] Now I get it.
[01:42:20.560 --> 01:42:23.440] But the sum cost of their salaries is lower, I'm assuming.
[01:42:24.240 --> 01:42:24.560] Right.
[01:42:24.800 --> 01:42:31.680] You're replacing one RN with a lower-waged group of people, and it's basically roughly the same care.
[01:42:31.680 --> 01:42:32.400] Sort of, yeah.
[01:42:32.400 --> 01:42:32.800] Right.
[01:42:32.800 --> 01:42:33.040] Okay.
[01:42:33.680 --> 01:42:36.080] I think the important, sorry, I just have to clarify one more thing.
[01:42:36.080 --> 01:42:38.160] Does that mean there are no RNs anymore?
[01:42:38.160 --> 01:42:39.600] Or does that just mean some of the RNs?
[01:42:39.840 --> 01:42:40.000] Some.
[01:42:40.000 --> 01:42:41.520] It says some RNs right in there.
[01:42:41.520 --> 01:42:41.840] Okay.
[01:42:41.840 --> 01:42:42.240] Okay.
[01:42:42.240 --> 01:42:43.200] Second one.
[01:42:43.200 --> 01:42:56.400] These researchers found that pet dogs trained on soundboards are able to recognize and respond appropriately to spoken words, even if produced by a soundboard or someone who is not their owner without any nonverbal cues.
[01:42:56.400 --> 01:43:11.040] All right, so I've seen video of this, and I question it because, you know, they're like, they're showing you the dog like stepping on these buttons on the floor, like these bigger buttons, and it can communicate via these sounds that the buttons make.
[01:43:11.040 --> 01:43:18.880] But you're saying that this one is a soundboard where the dogs can respond appropriately to spoken words, even if produced by the soundboards, like the opposite.
[01:43:18.880 --> 01:43:22.800] Like the soundboard is telling them to do something, Steve, and they're responding to it.
[01:43:22.800 --> 01:43:27.600] It's the dog responding to the soundboard, not the dog operating the soundboard.
[01:43:27.600 --> 01:43:27.760] Yeah.
[01:43:28.000 --> 01:43:28.800] Gotcha, gotcha.
[01:43:28.800 --> 01:43:29.040] Okay.
[01:43:29.360 --> 01:43:32.760] Basically, the point of that is to eliminate the nonverbal cues.
[01:43:32.760 --> 01:43:33.880] Exactly, exactly.
[01:43:33.880 --> 01:43:38.200] I mean, my gut is telling me that the nonverbal cues are important.
[01:43:38.200 --> 01:43:40.520] I mean, my dog is always looking at my face.
[01:43:40.520 --> 01:43:43.080] And I notice my dog looks at my hands a lot.
[01:43:43.080 --> 01:43:44.440] So that one's a maybe for me.
[01:43:44.440 --> 01:43:50.520] The last one, NASA scientists have demonstrated for the first time the existence of a global electrostatic field.
[01:43:50.520 --> 01:43:51.400] Oh, boy.
[01:43:51.400 --> 01:43:53.960] That's where super villains come from.
[01:43:53.960 --> 01:43:54.520] Okay.
[01:43:54.520 --> 01:43:58.120] Well, only the shocker and static boy.
[01:43:58.440 --> 01:43:59.560] Static boy.
[01:43:59.560 --> 01:44:00.920] Yeah, Magneto hates it.
[01:44:00.920 --> 01:44:02.520] Leave my balloons alone.
[01:44:02.520 --> 01:44:03.240] All right.
[01:44:03.640 --> 01:44:05.720] I think that that's possible.
[01:44:05.720 --> 01:44:07.720] A global electrostatic field.
[01:44:07.720 --> 01:44:09.800] That's interesting and possible, I think.
[01:44:09.800 --> 01:44:13.400] Something about the nonverbal cues with the dog is rubbing me the wrong way.
[01:44:13.400 --> 01:44:15.000] I wouldn't say that one's a fiction.
[01:44:15.000 --> 01:44:16.200] Okay, Evan.
[01:44:16.200 --> 01:44:18.440] Registered nurses, RNs, right?
[01:44:18.440 --> 01:44:22.840] Can save hospitals significant operating costs, Steve.
[01:44:22.840 --> 01:44:24.440] You come back.
[01:44:24.760 --> 01:44:26.680] These are my OR shoes.
[01:44:27.240 --> 01:44:28.600] Oh, are they?
[01:44:29.480 --> 01:44:30.360] Anybody remember that?
[01:44:30.600 --> 01:44:31.800] Rushmore.
[01:44:32.760 --> 01:44:35.720] I love Wes Anderson films.
[01:44:35.720 --> 01:44:36.520] They're great.
[01:44:36.760 --> 01:44:40.520] But in any case, this one, I don't know.
[01:44:41.560 --> 01:44:42.200] So what?
[01:44:42.200 --> 01:44:44.520] We're talking about substituting.
[01:44:44.840 --> 01:44:47.320] RNs have specific skills, right?
[01:44:47.320 --> 01:44:50.440] So if you're going to have the team nurse, you kind of.
[01:44:50.600 --> 01:44:51.080] I don't know.
[01:44:51.080 --> 01:44:57.400] Does that somehow dilute the skill sets that an RN would otherwise bring somehow?
[01:44:57.400 --> 01:45:00.840] Would that have an without any adverse effects or outcomes?
[01:45:00.840 --> 01:45:02.520] That's pretty, oh boy.
[01:45:02.520 --> 01:45:03.480] Without any.
[01:45:04.120 --> 01:45:04.840] I don't know.
[01:45:04.840 --> 01:45:05.240] I don't know.
[01:45:05.240 --> 01:45:06.120] That one's tricky.
[01:45:06.120 --> 01:45:08.760] But the dog one as well is tricky as well.
[01:45:08.760 --> 01:45:14.280] There's a lot going on here in this because it's about the soundboards, okay?
[01:45:14.280 --> 01:45:21.120] Even if produced by a soundboard or someone else who's not their owner without any non-verbal cues.
[01:45:14.840 --> 01:45:21.920] So, whoa.
[01:45:22.880 --> 01:45:36.960] We're thinking of the clever Hans example, maybe here, which is how, you know, sort of the famous example in history about animals taking, you know, cues, verbal, you know, subtle cues from their trainers or whomever.
[01:45:36.960 --> 01:45:38.480] So that came to mind.
[01:45:38.640 --> 01:45:40.400] This would mean this goes around it.
[01:45:40.400 --> 01:45:49.760] Dogs are incredible, and they're learning so much more about the capabilities and the brains of dogs and what they comprehend and what they understand and what they feel.
[01:45:49.760 --> 01:45:55.600] This would be an amazing discovery for an already amazing species of animal.
[01:45:55.840 --> 01:46:01.200] And then the last one about the, oh, first time ever for the global electrostatic field.
[01:46:01.200 --> 01:46:07.040] This doesn't have to do with like the harmonics of the earth, right?
[01:46:07.040 --> 01:46:10.560] That whole 384 megahertz thing.
[01:46:10.560 --> 01:46:13.040] I don't think it has to do with that, right?
[01:46:13.040 --> 01:46:21.760] Which a lot of nonsense and garbage products are all based on, like wristwatches and, you know, in harmony with the earth and stuff.
[01:46:21.760 --> 01:46:23.520] I hope it has nothing to do with that.
[01:46:25.520 --> 01:46:26.800] These are tough.
[01:46:26.800 --> 01:46:36.960] I think the nurse's one, though, I think of the three of these is going to be the one that's the fiction because without any adverse effects on outcomes, any?
[01:46:36.960 --> 01:46:38.080] You know, that's absolute.
[01:46:38.080 --> 01:46:40.240] And I just don't know if that's the case.
[01:46:40.240 --> 01:46:41.680] So I think that one's the fiction.
[01:46:41.680 --> 01:46:42.480] Okay, Bob.
[01:46:43.520 --> 01:46:46.560] All right, the global electrostatic field.
[01:46:46.880 --> 01:46:48.080] That's possible.
[01:46:48.320 --> 01:46:52.160] That one's not really rubbing me the wrong way like the other two.
[01:46:52.160 --> 01:47:00.840] The nurse one, I could make sense of that in my mind because RNs have a range of skills.
[01:46:59.920 --> 01:47:04.920] Some are very dependent on education, others less so.
[01:47:05.240 --> 01:47:23.560] I would think that offloading some of the easier tasks to unqualified RNs, if you will, could say, could potentially allow the RNs to focus on the most important and more technical tasks and offloading the easier tasks to the less experienced people.
[01:47:23.560 --> 01:47:25.560] I could see how that would make sense.
[01:47:25.800 --> 01:47:28.360] It seems possible, but it depends.
[01:47:28.760 --> 01:47:38.760] If the hospital is busy and you're down a qualified RN, then that would be a drawback for sure, no matter how many non-RNs you have.
[01:47:39.320 --> 01:47:44.120] So, and the dog one, I could see that as well.
[01:47:44.280 --> 01:47:49.400] I don't think verbal cues, I don't think nonverbal cues are absolutely critical.
[01:47:49.400 --> 01:47:58.920] I mean, I think if you train a dog with non-verb, you know, with the non-verbal cues in a specific setting, that they would become used to that as well.
[01:47:59.480 --> 01:48:07.480] And I think they're smart enough to go just by the audible component, and regardless of any nonverbal impact.
[01:48:07.480 --> 01:48:09.080] So, I could see that.
[01:48:09.640 --> 01:48:14.200] Nothing's like any red sirens are going off for either of these.
[01:48:14.440 --> 01:48:15.800] But I got to pick one of the other things.
[01:48:16.440 --> 01:48:17.640] I'll go with the nurse.
[01:48:17.640 --> 01:48:18.040] Okay.
[01:48:18.440 --> 01:48:19.640] All right, Kara.
[01:48:19.640 --> 01:48:24.280] So, I don't know on the global electrostatic field, but everybody else said that they think it's science.
[01:48:24.600 --> 01:48:31.000] And I trust your global electrostatic field knowledge more than my own.
[01:48:31.000 --> 01:48:33.000] So, so I'm going to say that that one's science.
[01:48:33.480 --> 01:48:38.360] I'm going to pick the nurses as the fiction for this reason.
[01:48:38.680 --> 01:48:50.640] I, number one, I have friends whose dog, I have a friend who trained her dog to retrieve a bunch of different toys, and it's like impressive.
[01:48:51.200 --> 01:49:00.320] And maybe there's a slight change in her tone when she says them, but really, like, I think there's 15 different toys, and her dog knows the name of them.
[01:49:00.320 --> 01:49:04.000] She can say, get the fox, and it gets the fox out of the other room.
[01:49:04.000 --> 01:49:12.080] And to me, that shows at least some ability to break down something about the phonemes and that it's not just tone.
[01:49:12.400 --> 01:49:15.520] The RN one, I mean, think about a hospital.
[01:49:15.520 --> 01:49:16.640] It's a well-oiled machine.
[01:49:16.720 --> 01:49:19.360] Doesn't always work well-oiled, but that's the hope, right?
[01:49:19.360 --> 01:49:28.640] And when I think about the hospital where I work, one RN per patient in the ICU, usually one RN per four patients in the quads on the floor.
[01:49:28.640 --> 01:49:39.920] Getting, making it so that it's one RN per two patients in the ICU with a few other clinical staff means that there are skills that are no longer present.
[01:49:39.920 --> 01:49:41.520] And that worries me a lot.
[01:49:41.520 --> 01:49:49.520] The gestalt there is that you can't add up three people who do something very specific and it'll equal one person who does something else that's very specific.
[01:49:49.520 --> 01:49:52.320] We have specific jobs and titles for a reason.
[01:49:52.320 --> 01:49:57.520] Other people who do other things that are specific are not equivalent if you just add them up.
[01:49:57.520 --> 01:49:59.680] And so I'm going to say that that one's a fiction.
[01:49:59.680 --> 01:50:01.760] All right, so you all agree with the third one.
[01:50:01.760 --> 01:50:02.480] So we'll start there.
[01:50:02.480 --> 01:50:07.840] NASA scientists have demonstrated for the first time the existence of a global electrostatic field.
[01:50:07.840 --> 01:50:10.080] You guys all think this one is science.
[01:50:10.080 --> 01:50:12.560] The question is, did they find it?
[01:50:12.560 --> 01:50:14.480] And is this the first time?
[01:50:14.480 --> 01:50:17.040] Maybe this is something we've known about for decades.
[01:50:17.040 --> 01:50:19.600] This one is science.
[01:50:19.600 --> 01:50:20.240] This is science.
[01:50:20.480 --> 01:50:21.120] First time.
[01:50:21.120 --> 01:50:21.760] It is.
[01:50:21.760 --> 01:50:29.360] So we thought maybe there might be one, but we had no evidence that there was a static electro, you know, electrostatic global field.
[01:50:29.480 --> 01:50:31.960] And NASA was able to demonstrate it for the first time.
[01:50:32.120 --> 01:50:38.760] The name of the study is Earth's Ambipolar Electrostatic Field and its Role in Ion Escape to Space.
[01:50:38.760 --> 01:50:43.560] So we know that there is, for example, this, you know, ions escaping through the poles.
[01:50:43.560 --> 01:50:49.960] It's kind of like our equivalent of like a same thing, a sort of a streaming of ions out of the Earth going through the poles.
[01:50:49.960 --> 01:50:53.880] And you can't really fully account for this by the magnetic field.
[01:50:54.200 --> 01:51:00.840] So there was suspicion that there might be a global electrostatic field, but it wasn't really known.
[01:51:00.840 --> 01:51:03.080] But they were able to measure it.
[01:51:03.080 --> 01:51:09.000] It's plus 0.55, plus or minus 0.09 volts.
[01:51:09.000 --> 01:51:17.640] Electrostatic potential drop between 250 kilometers and 768 kilometers from a planetary electrostatic field.
[01:51:17.640 --> 01:51:18.200] Cool, man.
[01:51:18.360 --> 01:51:23.880] It generates an outward pressure on ionospheric electrons.
[01:51:23.880 --> 01:51:24.760] Yeah, very cool.
[01:51:24.760 --> 01:51:30.440] So we'll add that to the Earth's gravitational field and its magnetic field, and now also an electrostatic field.
[01:51:30.440 --> 01:51:35.480] Bob, why is there no gravito superhero or gravity?
[01:51:37.080 --> 01:51:38.920] There's a magneto, right?
[01:51:38.920 --> 01:51:41.880] There's a lot of electricity-based superheroes.
[01:51:41.880 --> 01:51:43.560] Why no gravito?
[01:51:43.560 --> 01:51:45.960] I've heard of like gravitometric as a word.
[01:51:45.960 --> 01:51:47.080] I'm saying a superhero.
[01:51:47.640 --> 01:51:48.680] Gravity-based superheroes.
[01:51:48.760 --> 01:51:50.040] Yeah, it's too weak.
[01:51:50.360 --> 01:51:54.200] And even if it wasn't too weak, would you really want to walk around and just have things stick to you?
[01:51:54.200 --> 01:51:56.520] No, not necessarily, but let's say, you know.
[01:51:56.920 --> 01:51:58.360] Oh, you're not the gravity.
[01:51:58.360 --> 01:52:04.840] No, but if you could control gravity, you could make people just crush them by increasing their local gravitational field.
[01:52:04.920 --> 01:52:05.720] Yeah, that'd be kind of cool.
[01:52:06.040 --> 01:52:07.240] It'd be great to float people.
[01:52:08.680 --> 01:52:11.880] They'd probably be the best-looking superhero because, you know, they're so attractive.
[01:52:11.880 --> 01:52:12.440] Yeah.
[01:52:13.240 --> 01:52:15.520] They have a lot of gravitas.
[01:52:16.240 --> 01:52:16.960] Ah, nice.
[01:52:17.760 --> 01:52:19.360] He's widely say that.
[01:52:19.360 --> 01:52:20.160] All right.
[01:52:14.920 --> 01:52:22.160] Let's go back to item number one.
[01:52:22.240 --> 01:52:31.200] A new study finds that substituting team nursing, substituting lower-wage staff for some RNs, can save hospitals significant operating costs without any adverse effect on outcomes.
[01:52:31.200 --> 01:52:34.640] Bob, Evan, Kara, you think this one is the fiction.
[01:52:34.640 --> 01:52:36.640] Jay, you think the one is science.
[01:52:37.280 --> 01:52:41.600] So, Bob, what you said is that's the other point of view, right?
[01:52:41.840 --> 01:52:49.680] And that is exactly the logic that was used in order to try out this model, this alternate model of staffing.
[01:52:50.160 --> 01:52:57.840] That you have, why pay nurses to do things that a medical assistant could be doing or an LPN could be doing?
[01:52:57.840 --> 01:52:58.240] Exactly.
[01:52:58.800 --> 01:52:59.600] It seems reasonable.
[01:52:59.680 --> 01:53:00.480] It seems perfectly reasonable.
[01:53:00.560 --> 01:53:02.000] We don't do that, do we?
[01:53:02.000 --> 01:53:05.440] Well, we pay medical assistants to do things medical assistants can do.
[01:53:05.440 --> 01:53:11.040] Yeah, but I'm saying some of, like, if you have a nurse who's in charge of a patient, they're doing everything, right?
[01:53:11.280 --> 01:53:13.360] I guess, not where I work.
[01:53:13.360 --> 01:53:16.000] So they also have medical assistants.
[01:53:16.320 --> 01:53:17.040] So, what do you think?
[01:53:18.000 --> 01:53:20.160] Then that model would work, right?
[01:53:20.160 --> 01:53:21.760] If that's what you're saying.
[01:53:21.920 --> 01:53:30.480] No, I'm saying that if you take the model that is working and then you dilute it even more, it is dangerous.
[01:53:30.480 --> 01:53:34.640] Well, this one is the fiction.
[01:53:36.800 --> 01:53:47.360] But Kara, even what you're describing, so like at Yale, for example, 20 years ago, we went to the team nursing model and it was an absolute disaster.
[01:53:47.360 --> 01:53:48.880] It was not good.
[01:53:49.200 --> 01:53:53.120] And because there was basically a shortage of nurses as a result.
[01:53:53.120 --> 01:54:07.160] And what the study found was that there is a lot of adverse effects when you go to this model, not only on patient care, but on the bottom line for hospitals.
[01:54:07.480 --> 01:54:08.360] Oh, interesting.
[01:54:08.360 --> 01:54:09.640] They lose money.
[01:54:09.800 --> 01:54:11.160] They lose money.
[01:54:11.160 --> 01:54:12.200] Absolutely.
[01:54:12.200 --> 01:54:13.880] Isn't that just always how it goes?
[01:54:13.880 --> 01:54:16.520] People think they're cutting corners and they're actually costing themselves money.
[01:54:16.600 --> 01:54:22.280] So what they found was a 10 percentage point reduction in RNs, so just 10% fewer RNs, right?
[01:54:22.280 --> 01:54:44.920] Was associated with a 7% higher odds of in-hospital death, 1% odds of readmission, 2% increase in expected delays, lower patient satisfaction, and would result nationwide in 10,947 avoidable deaths annually and roughly cost Medicare $68.5 million annually.
[01:54:44.920 --> 01:54:45.720] Wow.
[01:54:45.720 --> 01:54:48.120] This is pretty much exactly what we experienced.
[01:54:48.280 --> 01:54:51.720] I think a lot of hospitals probably have had their own experience with this.
[01:54:52.600 --> 01:54:58.120] It is that it's not just what skills were you expressly trained in.
[01:54:58.120 --> 01:55:02.280] It's also your overall knowledge and ability.
[01:55:02.680 --> 01:55:03.560] Yeah, it's your competence.
[01:55:03.720 --> 01:55:04.200] Yes.
[01:55:04.200 --> 01:55:15.480] And so you do, there is a benefit to having even somebody who's overqualified involved in, you know, intimately involved with every aspect of care and not, as you say, diluting.
[01:55:15.480 --> 01:55:23.320] Because then also when you add team members, now you add another layer of communication and coordination that adds complexity to the whole thing.
[01:55:23.560 --> 01:55:28.600] Every one of those layers is an opportunity for mistakes to happen or miscommunications, et cetera.
[01:55:28.600 --> 01:55:33.000] It's just better to just pay a lot of nurses to do nursing work.
[01:55:33.800 --> 01:55:38.200] They are highly trained, highly skilled, and highly valuable in the clinical setting.
[01:55:38.200 --> 01:55:44.600] And it was basically a failed experiment trying to dilute the nursing staff to save money.
[01:55:44.720 --> 01:55:52.960] Now I want Medicare to do the same study for psychologists so that we can stop having to prove why we matter.
[01:55:53.680 --> 01:55:55.680] We're good for reducing readmission.
[01:55:56.240 --> 01:56:11.280] Pretty much, whenever, I mean, over the years, I've looked at many, many studies looking at comparisons between more specialized, higher-trained medical staff at every level versus more generalists or lesser trained.
[01:56:11.280 --> 01:56:15.920] And the more specialist, higher-trained staff always has better outcomes, right?
[01:56:15.920 --> 01:56:20.080] Even like within neurology, obviously I'm very familiar with the neurological literature.
[01:56:20.080 --> 01:56:33.120] If you compare stroke outcomes from a patient being admitted to a general neurology service versus a patient being admitted to a stroke specialty service, the stroke outcomes are better.
[01:56:33.120 --> 01:56:50.640] And even if the MD staff is the same, if you admit them to a stroke floor with stroke nurses, the outcome is better than if you admit them to just a general medical floor with nurses who are not specifically trained or experienced dealing with strokes.
[01:56:50.640 --> 01:56:56.240] So experience and expertise actually matters for patient outcomes.
[01:56:56.240 --> 01:56:58.320] There's just no substitute for that.
[01:56:58.320 --> 01:57:16.400] All right, this means that researchers find that pet dogs trained on soundboards are able to recognize and respond appropriately to spoken words, even if produced by a soundboard or someone who is not their owner without any nonverbal cues, is science because dogs do understand words in the absence of intonation or nonverbal cues.
[01:57:16.400 --> 01:57:26.120] However, Jay, when I was researching this, I looked at a bunch of those same dogs trained on soundboard videos, and they are all bullshit.
[01:57:26.000 --> 01:57:26.600] I didn't buy them.
[01:57:27.760 --> 01:57:30.040] I didn't buy a single one of them.
[01:57:29.440 --> 01:57:33.240] And, you know, yeah, so take a look at them and tell me what you think.
[01:57:33.400 --> 01:57:44.280] But basically, like on one of them, you have the owner, so you have like, there's maybe what, 20 buttons spread out on the floor, and they're paw-sized, so the dog can put their paw on it to activate it.
[01:57:44.280 --> 01:57:48.840] And the owner is like, you know, expectantly asking their dog a question.
[01:57:48.840 --> 01:57:50.360] Do you, you know, what do you want to do?
[01:57:50.360 --> 01:57:51.720] You know, what do you want?
[01:57:51.720 --> 01:57:56.280] And then the dog hits a button, and whatever button they hit is like appropriate for a dog, right?
[01:57:56.280 --> 01:57:58.360] It's not like there's some crazy things on there.
[01:57:58.360 --> 01:58:02.840] It's like, it says like outside, food, walk, scratchy, whatever.
[01:58:02.840 --> 01:58:05.080] Anything that dog hits, the bone's like, you want food?
[01:58:05.080 --> 01:58:05.960] Okay, here's the food.
[01:58:05.960 --> 01:58:06.840] And so the owner just hits.
[01:58:07.000 --> 01:58:08.840] And then, of course, the dog is like, I'm thrilled.
[01:58:08.840 --> 01:58:10.200] I like all of my choices.
[01:58:10.760 --> 01:58:11.960] It's like you can't go wrong.
[01:58:11.960 --> 01:58:16.600] But the owner just interprets whatever button the dog presses and makes it make sense.
[01:58:16.600 --> 01:58:17.240] You know what I mean?
[01:58:17.240 --> 01:58:18.920] They're doing all the cognitive work.
[01:58:18.920 --> 01:58:23.240] In one of the videos, like the dog is sitting in front of the soundboard.
[01:58:23.240 --> 01:58:32.520] The owner, you know, again, asks him a question, and the dog puts his paw out without looking on the closest button to him.
[01:58:32.520 --> 01:58:33.160] That was it.
[01:58:33.480 --> 01:58:38.120] Like, he didn't, like, go up and down the board and go to the one button that he liked.
[01:58:38.120 --> 01:58:43.480] It happened to be the one that was right in front of his paw, and he didn't even look at the board.
[01:58:43.480 --> 01:58:44.200] You know what I mean?
[01:58:44.200 --> 01:58:48.440] He just put his paw down and got his reward, whatever that was.
[01:58:48.440 --> 01:58:50.840] So that's the level that we're talking about.
[01:58:50.840 --> 01:58:55.720] It's just owners completely over-interpreting what the dog is doing.
[01:58:55.720 --> 01:58:59.240] And I just didn't buy any of the videos that I saw.
[01:58:59.800 --> 01:59:04.600] Even when, and, you know, we're also like, we're seeing selected videos.
[01:59:04.600 --> 01:59:08.440] Like, we don't know like how long it takes for them to get that accurate.
[01:59:08.600 --> 01:59:09.800] It's like a trick shot video.
[01:59:10.040 --> 01:59:11.720] Like, I love trick shot videos on YouTube.
[01:59:11.880 --> 01:59:12.680] But you have no idea how many videos.
[01:59:12.840 --> 01:59:14.760] That's like a 77th trough.
[01:59:14.760 --> 01:59:14.840] Yeah.
[01:59:15.280 --> 01:59:25.440] But even if you, even if that's not the case, like, you know, I think the dogs learn to engage in behavior, which gets them rewards, you know, and that includes putting their paws on these buttons.
[01:59:25.440 --> 01:59:28.880] It doesn't mean that they're communicating to you.
[01:59:28.880 --> 01:59:30.320] You know, oh, for sure.
[01:59:30.320 --> 01:59:33.200] You could do the exact same, like the YouTube videos you're talking about.
[01:59:33.200 --> 01:59:34.400] You could do those with a mouse.
[01:59:34.400 --> 01:59:34.880] Yeah.
[01:59:34.880 --> 01:59:37.520] You could do those with a chipmunk.
[01:59:37.520 --> 01:59:40.640] Like, you can train any animal to press a bar.
[01:59:41.040 --> 01:59:42.240] You can get a reward, right?
[01:59:42.240 --> 01:59:42.480] Yeah.
[01:59:42.720 --> 01:59:44.960] Like, it's a lab, lab animal want to reward.
[01:59:45.200 --> 01:59:52.000] But there was no evidence in the videos I saw that there was any specificity to what the dogs were doing.
[01:59:52.000 --> 01:59:54.240] No, and sometimes it literally is like a fortune cookie.
[01:59:54.400 --> 01:59:58.720] Like the buttons will say things like, Mom, sad, go.
[01:59:59.040 --> 02:00:00.640] And it'll be like, mom, sad, go.
[02:00:00.640 --> 02:00:02.160] Mom is sad when she goes.
[02:00:02.160 --> 02:00:02.640] Yeah, exactly.
[02:00:02.880 --> 02:00:06.720] You know, and it's like, that was exactly what was happening.
[02:00:06.720 --> 02:00:07.200] Yeah.
[02:00:07.760 --> 02:00:15.840] They just anthropomorphize and interpret whatever buttons the dog hit in some way, and then the dog gets some reward, you know, basically.
[02:00:16.160 --> 02:00:23.360] And again, if there's more impressive performances out there, why aren't those the videos that are being uploaded to social media, right?
[02:00:23.360 --> 02:00:28.320] You would think that this is like if there was a really impressive one out there, that we would be seeing it.
[02:00:28.320 --> 02:00:32.560] But what I was seeing was not convincing in the slightest.
[02:00:32.560 --> 02:00:37.520] But having said that, I believe that dogs do understand words, you know, even without intonation.
[02:00:37.840 --> 02:00:45.520] And just even, I know it's hard anecdotally, and as a dog owner to really know, but we try to test it out.
[02:00:45.520 --> 02:00:48.080] Like, our dog knows the word walk.
[02:00:48.080 --> 02:00:48.720] He just does.
[02:00:48.720 --> 02:00:58.720] And if we say it even without addressing it to the dog or without any intonation, like we, he reacts the same way, basically.
[02:00:58.720 --> 02:01:05.480] Yeah, I've seen that with a lot of friends, where especially with like herding dogs and really intelligent dogs that are very high energy, they'll have to be careful.
[02:01:05.560 --> 02:01:08.200] Like, guys, do you want to go on a drive?
[02:01:08.200 --> 02:01:11.160] Yeah, like you cannot say they're like, oh, I don't want to freak out my dog.
[02:01:11.480 --> 02:01:11.800] Exactly.
[02:01:11.800 --> 02:01:12.440] That's the same thing.
[02:01:12.440 --> 02:01:14.920] Like, we some and we inadvertently trigger him sometimes.
[02:01:15.000 --> 02:01:17.400] We're just talking and we mention the word and he's like, it's all excited.
[02:01:17.400 --> 02:01:18.920] Like, oh, crap, I said the word.
[02:01:18.920 --> 02:01:21.560] You know, like, we're not even trying to communicate with him.
[02:01:21.560 --> 02:01:22.680] But yeah, and he is a herder.
[02:01:22.680 --> 02:01:23.800] He's a very smart dog.
[02:01:23.800 --> 02:01:24.600] Yeah, cute.
[02:01:24.600 --> 02:01:25.080] Yeah, yeah.
[02:01:25.080 --> 02:01:25.720] No, it's cute.
[02:01:25.720 --> 02:01:27.000] But of course, then we could also use that.
[02:01:27.000 --> 02:01:30.760] Like, we know we can get them all excited just by saying, Do you want to go for a walk?
[02:01:30.760 --> 02:01:32.120] And then he'd just go crazy.
[02:01:32.120 --> 02:01:32.760] Yeah.
[02:01:33.640 --> 02:01:34.200] It's fun.
[02:01:34.200 --> 02:01:35.080] That's a lot of fun.
[02:01:35.080 --> 02:01:40.280] But yeah, it's so easy to overinterpret what your dogs can understand.
[02:01:40.840 --> 02:01:41.480] You love that.
[02:01:41.480 --> 02:01:42.040] Yeah, absolutely.
[02:01:42.120 --> 02:01:43.640] It's a reflection of you.
[02:01:43.960 --> 02:01:47.400] I mean, they evolved to touch our heartstrings, absolutely.
[02:01:47.400 --> 02:02:00.760] And the other thing is that they have, you know, we talked before about the fact that dogs have a high neuronal density and that they have a, they do, you know, did evolve to have a very, to be very in tune socially with their owners.
[02:02:00.760 --> 02:02:03.400] That's, that was their survival strategy, right?
[02:02:03.400 --> 02:02:08.200] Was to make us care about them and feed them and, you know, incorporate them into our lives and our villages and et cetera.
[02:02:08.200 --> 02:02:09.160] And it worked.
[02:02:09.160 --> 02:02:17.320] And so I do think that they are very, very sensitive to human social cues, you know, human communication.
[02:02:17.320 --> 02:02:20.760] And they certainly figure out how to make their wants known to us.
[02:02:20.760 --> 02:02:21.480] Totally.
[02:02:21.480 --> 02:02:22.040] Okay.
[02:02:22.040 --> 02:02:23.400] Good job, everyone.
[02:02:23.400 --> 02:02:25.720] Evan, you got a quote for us?
[02:02:25.720 --> 02:02:26.360] I do.
[02:02:26.360 --> 02:02:39.320] This week's quote was suggested by a listener, Nicholas from Denmark, who says he's a big fan of the show, been listening to every new episode since first finding the podcast, although he doesn't say when he found the podcast.
[02:02:39.320 --> 02:02:41.320] But in any case, thank you.
[02:02:41.320 --> 02:02:44.920] And here is the quote: Sometimes scientists change their minds.
[02:02:46.000 --> 02:02:48.160] New developments cause a rethink.
[02:02:48.160 --> 02:02:57.040] If this bothers you, consider how much damage is being done to the world by people for whom new developments do not cause a rethink.
[02:02:57.520 --> 02:02:58.000] Yep.
[02:02:58.240 --> 02:03:02.960] That was written by Terry Pratchett back in 2002.
[02:03:02.960 --> 02:03:03.520] Wow.
[02:03:03.840 --> 02:03:04.480] Wrote that.
[02:03:04.720 --> 02:03:08.000] And my gosh, this could have been written yesterday.
[02:03:08.160 --> 02:03:08.640] Totally wrong.
[02:03:08.880 --> 02:03:11.280] And it could have been written a thousand years ago, too.
[02:03:11.280 --> 02:03:12.080] 2,000 years ago.
[02:03:12.400 --> 02:03:13.920] This is a universal truth.
[02:03:13.920 --> 02:03:14.640] Absolutely.
[02:03:14.640 --> 02:03:18.880] I know it's always weird to me when people try to shame other people for changing their mind.
[02:03:18.880 --> 02:03:20.800] Like, you call it flip-flopping or whatever.
[02:03:21.120 --> 02:03:23.680] It's a weird political derogatory.
[02:03:23.920 --> 02:03:29.120] It's like, but yeah, new information came along, and I changed my mind to accommodate new facts.
[02:03:29.120 --> 02:03:33.040] What do you do, you know, when you're confronted with new facts?
[02:03:33.520 --> 02:03:40.560] But yeah, again, that gets back to like in politics, anything could be made into a positive or a negative, depending on what side it's on.
[02:03:40.880 --> 02:03:42.560] Anything, anything could be spun.
[02:03:42.560 --> 02:03:43.200] Yeah.
[02:03:43.520 --> 02:03:44.160] All right.
[02:03:44.160 --> 02:03:46.640] Well, thank you all for joining me this week.
[02:03:46.640 --> 02:03:47.360] You got it, Steve.
[02:03:47.440 --> 02:03:48.480] Thanks, Steve.
[02:03:48.480 --> 02:03:52.880] And until next week, this is your Skeptic's Guide to the Universe.
[02:03:55.200 --> 02:04:01.840] Skeptic's Guide to the Universe is produced by SGU Productions, dedicated to promoting science and critical thinking.
[02:04:01.840 --> 02:04:06.480] For more information, visit us at the skepticsguide.org.
[02:04:06.480 --> 02:04:10.400] Send your questions to info at the skepticsguide.org.
[02:04:10.400 --> 02:04:21.120] And if you would like to support the show and all the work that we do, go to patreon.com/slash skepticsguide and consider becoming a patron and becoming part of the SGU community.
[02:04:21.120 --> 02:04:24.640] Our listeners and supporters are what make SGU possible.
[02:04:33.240 --> 02:04:37.800] Being a real estate agent isn't about listing houses, it's about connecting to people.
[02:04:37.800 --> 02:04:39.960] I need to find new buyers every day.
[02:04:39.960 --> 02:04:44.440] So I promote my listings using radio commercials from iHeartAdBuilder.com.
[02:04:44.440 --> 02:04:47.960] Now, every time I have an open house, it's a full house.
[02:04:48.280 --> 02:04:54.680] A custom radio ad from iHeartAdBuilder is the fast, affordable way to drive customers to your business.
[02:04:54.680 --> 02:04:57.000] Put the power of radio to work for you.
[02:04:57.000 --> 02:05:00.280] Get started now at iHeartAdBuilder.com.