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[00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:02.720] So, when I ask, what is Odoo?
[00:00:02.720 --> 00:00:04.240] What comes to mind?
[00:00:04.240 --> 00:00:06.880] Well, Odoo is a bit of everything.
[00:00:06.880 --> 00:00:14.000] Odoo is a suite of business management software that some people say is like fertilizer because of the way it promotes growth.
[00:00:14.000 --> 00:00:22.480] But you know, some people also say Odoo is like a magic bean stock because it grows with your company and is also magically affordable.
[00:00:22.480 --> 00:00:29.200] But then again, you could look at Odoo in terms of how its individual software programs are a lot like building blocks.
[00:00:29.200 --> 00:00:34.720] I mean, whatever your business needs: manufacturing, accounting, HR programs.
[00:00:34.720 --> 00:00:39.040] You can build a custom software suite that's perfect for your company.
[00:00:39.040 --> 00:00:40.800] So, what is Odoo?
[00:00:40.800 --> 00:00:43.840] Well, I guess Odoo is a bit of everything.
[00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:49.440] Odo is a fertilizer, magic beanstock building blocks for business.
[00:00:49.440 --> 00:00:51.040] Yeah, that's it.
[00:00:51.040 --> 00:00:54.800] Which means that Odo is exactly what every business needs.
[00:00:54.800 --> 00:00:57.760] Learn more and sign up now at odo.com.
[00:00:57.760 --> 00:01:00.640] That's odoo.com.
[00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:09.280] You're listening to the skeptic's guide to the universe, your escape to reality.
[00:01:09.920 --> 00:01:12.880] Hello, and welcome to the skeptic's guide to the universe.
[00:01:12.880 --> 00:01:18.080] Today is Wednesday, August 7th, 2024, and this is your host, Stephen Novella.
[00:01:18.080 --> 00:01:20.000] Joining me this week are Bob Novella.
[00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:20.560] Hey, everybody.
[00:01:20.560 --> 00:01:21.920] Kara Santa Maria.
[00:01:21.920 --> 00:01:22.480] Howdy.
[00:01:22.480 --> 00:01:23.440] Jay Novella.
[00:01:23.440 --> 00:01:24.000] Hey, guys.
[00:01:24.000 --> 00:01:25.520] And Evan Bernstein.
[00:01:25.520 --> 00:01:26.560] Good evening, everyone.
[00:01:26.560 --> 00:01:28.240] So, Bob, you know what week it is?
[00:01:28.720 --> 00:01:29.520] It's not all.
[00:01:29.600 --> 00:01:30.800] Perseids.
[00:01:30.800 --> 00:01:31.280] Oh, yes.
[00:01:31.680 --> 00:01:32.240] Oh, my God.
[00:01:32.240 --> 00:01:32.800] It's all new.
[00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:36.400] Since we broke the curse, maybe we'll see it this year.
[00:01:36.720 --> 00:01:37.040] Yeah.
[00:01:37.040 --> 00:01:39.440] We're going to have a friggin' hurricane this year.
[00:01:39.840 --> 00:01:40.240] Yeah.
[00:01:40.400 --> 00:01:43.120] Hitting right well at the peak of the Perseids.
[00:01:43.120 --> 00:01:44.240] So we got that going for us.
[00:01:44.560 --> 00:01:46.320] Didn't Bob tell you he sold his soul to the devil?
[00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:48.880] You guys are never seeing anything celestial again.
[00:01:48.880 --> 00:01:49.360] That was it.
[00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:50.400] That was the trade-off.
[00:01:51.040 --> 00:01:53.920] Yeah, I should have told you guys that, but yeah, we're kind of done.
[00:01:54.000 --> 00:01:57.120] Anything interesting in the sky for all of us forever.
[00:01:57.120 --> 00:01:58.520] I signed nothing.
[00:02:00.200 --> 00:02:03.800] Remember that morning you woke up and there was a little pinprick on your finger?
[00:02:04.120 --> 00:02:05.080] Yeah, it was a mosquito.
[00:01:58.400 --> 00:02:05.800] A little blood fire.
[00:02:06.120 --> 00:02:08.280] Yeah, that's what we wanted you to think.
[00:02:08.280 --> 00:02:08.920] What?
[00:02:08.920 --> 00:02:10.280] So, Steve, hurricane.
[00:02:10.280 --> 00:02:13.080] Wait, we're supposed to go to whatchamacallit on Sunday.
[00:02:13.080 --> 00:02:13.640] Where are you going?
[00:02:13.800 --> 00:02:15.480] Is it going to be, man?
[00:02:15.480 --> 00:02:16.920] Good, good Italian food.
[00:02:16.920 --> 00:02:18.440] I mean, amazing Italian food.
[00:02:18.440 --> 00:02:20.680] If that gets ruined, I will cry.
[00:02:20.680 --> 00:02:21.560] Oliver.
[00:02:21.720 --> 00:02:22.440] Shut up.
[00:02:22.440 --> 00:02:23.880] You shut your mouth.
[00:02:23.880 --> 00:02:25.320] Sunday is Jay's birthday.
[00:02:25.560 --> 00:02:26.120] Jay's birthday.
[00:02:26.120 --> 00:02:27.880] It often coincides with the Perseids.
[00:02:28.040 --> 00:02:28.760] Happy birthday.
[00:02:29.080 --> 00:02:31.640] And legit, though, Steve, we said this before on the show.
[00:02:31.640 --> 00:02:36.360] Like, Bob and I try to see them every year around my birthday, and every single year it's been hazy.
[00:02:36.600 --> 00:02:38.200] Literally, like 15 years.
[00:02:38.520 --> 00:02:39.160] That's too bad.
[00:02:39.160 --> 00:02:40.680] They are really, really spectacular.
[00:02:40.920 --> 00:02:41.560] Oh, yeah, man.
[00:02:41.560 --> 00:02:45.080] They could be a few a minute or more.
[00:02:45.080 --> 00:02:55.000] But you got a day on either side, you know, where you could still see decent three days of staying up pretty late.
[00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:56.200] It's better if you stay up late.
[00:02:56.200 --> 00:02:59.080] Like, stay up after midnight, look to the north.
[00:02:59.080 --> 00:03:00.760] Yeah, go out in the middle of the night.
[00:03:00.760 --> 00:03:02.360] That's when it's amazing.
[00:03:02.360 --> 00:03:05.720] So I just had a fun event yesterday.
[00:03:05.720 --> 00:03:15.240] I was invited to be the keynote speaker for Project Fibonacci, which is basically a STEM promotion conference for high school students.
[00:03:15.560 --> 00:03:16.840] And so they asked me to speak.
[00:03:16.840 --> 00:03:18.760] And this year's theme was AI.
[00:03:18.760 --> 00:03:19.880] So artificial intelligence.
[00:03:19.880 --> 00:03:24.120] They asked me to speak about critical thinking and also artificial intelligence.
[00:03:24.120 --> 00:03:24.840] Ooh, cool.
[00:03:24.920 --> 00:03:25.480] How'd it go?
[00:03:25.720 --> 00:03:26.200] It was great.
[00:03:26.200 --> 00:03:26.680] Yeah, it was good.
[00:03:26.680 --> 00:03:27.160] It was really good.
[00:03:27.240 --> 00:03:27.800] What did you talk about?
[00:03:28.200 --> 00:03:29.720] I talked about critical thinking.
[00:03:29.960 --> 00:03:32.440] So that I always iterate my talks.
[00:03:32.440 --> 00:03:35.080] Like, I never give the exact same talk twice, which is crazy.
[00:03:35.160 --> 00:03:36.600] I just make more work for myself.
[00:03:36.600 --> 00:03:40.360] But I'm always talking to a slightly different audience.
[00:03:40.360 --> 00:03:41.080] You know what I mean?
[00:03:41.080 --> 00:03:43.560] And plus, things change all the time.
[00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:48.560] So I framed this one as how to know what's really real.
[00:03:48.560 --> 00:03:50.080] You get that phrase.
[00:03:50.080 --> 00:03:50.560] Yeah.
[00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:52.000] In the age of misinformation.
[00:03:52.400 --> 00:03:58.000] So it was all about how to control your access to information.
[00:03:58.560 --> 00:03:59.200] You know what I mean?
[00:03:59.200 --> 00:04:02.000] Like, don't let other people decide what information you see.
[00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:09.440] And I talked about all the ways in which information is curated and, you know, whether using algorithms or AI or whatever.
[00:04:10.080 --> 00:04:20.240] And then, of course, all the critical thinking and media savvy and scientific literacy tools that you need to use in order to be able to evaluate sources of information and the quality of information, et cetera.
[00:04:20.240 --> 00:04:24.320] So a lot of skepticism 101, but just sort of packaged around that theme.
[00:04:24.320 --> 00:04:24.720] Nice.
[00:04:24.720 --> 00:04:29.360] Yeah, just talking about how AI influences the whole thing, right?
[00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:34.560] That, you know, you could generate massive amounts of fake information, deep fakes.
[00:04:34.560 --> 00:04:38.880] The internet is increasingly bots talking to other bots, you know, that whole thing.
[00:04:38.880 --> 00:04:39.520] Oh, okay.
[00:04:39.520 --> 00:04:43.520] I showed them a few photos and had them guess if they were real or fake.
[00:04:43.840 --> 00:04:45.360] They basically got them all wrong.
[00:04:45.360 --> 00:04:48.960] Because I chose them specifically to be a little bit deceptive.
[00:04:49.280 --> 00:04:52.000] Oh, like you chose real-looking fake pictures and fake-looking real pictures.
[00:04:52.240 --> 00:04:53.040] Yes, exactly.
[00:04:53.040 --> 00:04:53.600] I love it.
[00:04:53.840 --> 00:04:55.760] Yeah, they fell for it.
[00:04:56.000 --> 00:04:57.040] Suckers.
[00:04:57.360 --> 00:05:00.480] All right, so we do have to start with a little bit of sad news, Evan.
[00:05:00.640 --> 00:05:01.760] You told us about this.
[00:05:01.760 --> 00:05:07.120] You heard first, our friend Mark Edward passed away last week.
[00:05:07.120 --> 00:05:09.520] Yeah, we were really sorry to hear about this.
[00:05:09.520 --> 00:05:11.120] It was this past Sunday.
[00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:11.920] Oh, man.
[00:05:11.920 --> 00:05:12.640] I read about it.
[00:05:12.640 --> 00:05:14.000] Yeah, in Facebook posts.
[00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:16.400] They were pouring in from skeptics all around the world.
[00:05:16.400 --> 00:05:18.880] And I reached out to Susan Gerbik.
[00:05:19.200 --> 00:05:23.040] She's well known for her work in spearheading the guerrilla skeptics.
[00:05:23.040 --> 00:05:30.000] And they do a really good job of keeping Wikipedia entries tidy for the well-known people in the skeptic community.
[00:05:30.840 --> 00:05:38.120] She was Mark's life partner, and she shared her thoughts on a Facebook post this past Monday.
[00:05:38.360 --> 00:05:41.080] It's a long post, but I'll just read a couple things from it.
[00:05:41.080 --> 00:05:50.120] She says, In my mind, when I thought I would have to make this post, I thought I would start by saying, It's with a heavy heart to tell you that Mark Edward had died.
[00:05:50.120 --> 00:05:57.480] But now I've been through this process the last few years and weeks, I can't say that.
[00:05:57.480 --> 00:06:01.960] It was an amazing death and an amazing life we had together.
[00:06:01.960 --> 00:06:09.480] Mark has had stage four prostate cancer for years, and science has given him the most amazing quality of life.
[00:06:09.800 --> 00:06:12.440] He never thought he would make it to age 73.
[00:06:12.440 --> 00:06:18.040] He was shocked he would make it to 70 or even 65, and every birthday he was shocked.
[00:06:18.040 --> 00:06:21.160] We knew the end would probably be 2024.
[00:06:21.160 --> 00:06:23.800] We had talked about it, and we were prepared.
[00:06:23.800 --> 00:06:28.040] I thought it would be later in the year, but life's not always what we prepare for.
[00:06:28.040 --> 00:06:29.960] His last few months have been incredible.
[00:06:29.960 --> 00:06:40.520] He has been performing, teaching magic, making art, listening to music, spending time with his chosen family, our cats, and he got to see the sunflowers he planted grow taller than his house.
[00:06:40.520 --> 00:06:41.480] Yeah, it's a long post.
[00:06:41.480 --> 00:06:45.080] You can read it in its entirety over at Susan's Facebook page.
[00:06:45.080 --> 00:06:46.280] It's a lovely tribute.
[00:06:46.280 --> 00:06:48.360] Susan's a very lovely person.
[00:06:48.360 --> 00:06:57.400] When she and I were exchanging messages on Facebook the other day, she reminded me that the day he died, it was August 4th, was International Psychic Day.
[00:06:58.360 --> 00:07:06.120] One of many strange coincidences that happens throughout a person's life, and hey, even in their death as well.
[00:07:06.120 --> 00:07:07.160] But why is that relevant?
[00:07:07.160 --> 00:07:19.040] Well, if you knew Mark Edward, you would know about his career as a professional psychic, his undercover work that he did in the 1990s when he was manning a phone at a popular psychic telephone network.
[00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:21.440] Boy, that was before the internet, wasn't it?
[00:07:21.840 --> 00:07:24.240] Just before the internet was really becoming a thing.
[00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:26.160] Okay, so he was a professional mentalist.
[00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:29.200] He specialized in what he called magic of the mind.
[00:07:29.200 --> 00:07:36.000] He spent over 35 years in world-class venues from high-end nightclubs and theaters to hundreds of private parties and corporate events.
[00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:45.200] Traveled the world as a skeptical activist and used those skills, including his skills as a mentalist, to teach and promote critical thinking.
[00:07:45.200 --> 00:07:48.240] A couple little facts about Mark in case you didn't know.
[00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:55.200] He's only one of five specially chosen and trained psychic mediums in the history of Hollywood's famed Magic Castle.
[00:07:55.200 --> 00:07:56.960] Kara, I know you're familiar with that.
[00:07:56.960 --> 00:07:57.680] Oh, yeah.
[00:07:57.680 --> 00:07:58.240] Yeah.
[00:07:58.240 --> 00:08:02.400] He performed 15 years of seance performances over there.
[00:08:02.560 --> 00:08:06.560] I helped him perfect the role of spirit medium and psychic entertainer.
[00:08:06.720 --> 00:08:16.640] He's written books on the subjects, obviously given lectures on how magic works, mentalism, and what psychic fraud is really all about.
[00:08:16.640 --> 00:08:21.760] And of course, he's well sourced in so many different news articles.
[00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:25.120] Networks have referred to him in all of his work.
[00:08:25.120 --> 00:08:28.960] And, you know, just really a lifelong pursuit of this.
[00:08:29.120 --> 00:08:40.400] We had the pleasure of sitting down with Mark way back, Tam7, at an interview, episode 219, if you care to go back and listen.
[00:08:40.400 --> 00:08:42.160] I did listen to it today.
[00:08:42.320 --> 00:08:45.760] Steve, you were involved with a project directly with him as well.
[00:08:45.760 --> 00:08:47.280] Yeah, the pilot.
[00:08:47.280 --> 00:08:50.080] He was on the pilot with me for the skeptologists.
[00:08:50.720 --> 00:08:52.800] But unfortunately, never got picked up, never aired.
[00:08:52.800 --> 00:08:54.480] But yeah, that's when I first met him.
[00:08:54.480 --> 00:08:56.080] Yeah, it was during that pilot.
[00:08:56.080 --> 00:08:56.560] Yep.
[00:08:56.560 --> 00:08:57.680] Yep, during that time.
[00:08:57.680 --> 00:09:03.240] And of course, we had seen him at many skeptic conferences after that, became very friendly with him.
[00:08:59.920 --> 00:09:07.320] You know, obviously had him on the show, but also got to know him a little bit better.
[00:09:07.800 --> 00:09:11.800] I thought a couple of takeaways from our interview we did with him, a few things.
[00:09:11.800 --> 00:09:22.840] You know, when he was working at the phone bank, you know, basically pretending to be a psychic, it was like a Lady Cleo kind of thing, even though it wasn't her network specifically.
[00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:25.400] But this was in the 90s when this was a big thing.
[00:09:25.400 --> 00:09:27.160] Telephone psychics, right?
[00:09:27.160 --> 00:09:30.520] I mean, it was a big moneymaker.
[00:09:30.520 --> 00:09:33.880] So he was in there, but he kind of was an infiltrator in a way.
[00:09:33.880 --> 00:09:40.840] You know, he got in there and he would try to help people out as much as possible.
[00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:44.200] He observed it as poor man's therapy.
[00:09:44.440 --> 00:10:04.920] And what he meant by that is that these were people who were so either desperate looking for answers or really couldn't afford in some ways to get the professional help that they otherwise needed that people will turn to these kinds of psychics to help them make life decisions, make health decisions, make financial decisions.
[00:10:04.920 --> 00:10:07.160] Wait, don't psychics cost more than therapists?
[00:10:08.360 --> 00:10:10.120] At a fraction of a price, apparently.
[00:10:10.120 --> 00:10:10.360] Really?
[00:10:10.840 --> 00:10:12.200] I thought psychics were pretty expensive.
[00:10:12.360 --> 00:10:14.920] Well, if they're deliberately trying to rip you off, they are.
[00:10:15.240 --> 00:10:22.200] Yeah, initially, though, Kara is what happens is, you know, like many things, they'll draw you in at a cheap rate.
[00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:22.440] Right.
[00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:24.520] Like, like an addict, right?
[00:10:24.520 --> 00:10:27.320] They'll give away free drugs or whatever.
[00:10:27.320 --> 00:10:29.560] And then eventually they'll turn it up.
[00:10:29.560 --> 00:10:33.560] If they find out that you've got money, they'll start charging more for these things.
[00:10:33.560 --> 00:10:33.720] Right.
[00:10:33.800 --> 00:10:35.240] Which is not what therapists do.
[00:10:35.800 --> 00:10:36.680] No, of course not.
[00:10:37.400 --> 00:10:38.040] Of course not.
[00:10:38.040 --> 00:10:40.040] His book is called Psychic Blues.
[00:10:40.440 --> 00:10:43.080] That's his book about his time in that industry.
[00:10:43.080 --> 00:10:45.760] You know, he did a seance with us when we interviewed him.
[00:10:45.760 --> 00:10:46.480] I remember this.
[00:10:44.840 --> 00:10:48.800] You know, he had us all, it was basically, you know, a goof.
[00:10:48.960 --> 00:10:58.640] We all put our hands on the table, turned the lights out, you know, and he asked some silly questions and did the old table thumping, you know, with his knee or his foot or something.
[00:10:58.960 --> 00:11:02.160] And then when it was over, God, I laughed at my own stupid comment.
[00:11:02.160 --> 00:11:04.480] He said, all right, did you feel anything?
[00:11:04.480 --> 00:11:07.520] And I said, yeah, I felt other people's hands on the table.
[00:11:08.560 --> 00:11:09.200] I don't know why.
[00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:10.320] That just struck me as funny.
[00:11:10.320 --> 00:11:11.840] We had a good laugh over that one.
[00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:18.880] But yeah, Mark, very well known among skeptics and will certainly be missed.
[00:11:18.880 --> 00:11:20.160] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:21.200] All right.
[00:11:21.200 --> 00:11:22.160] Thank you, Evan.
[00:11:22.160 --> 00:11:24.480] Let's move on with some news items.
[00:11:24.480 --> 00:11:28.560] Jay, you're going to tell us about deep storage on the moon.
[00:11:28.560 --> 00:11:33.120] Yeah, this is like a, you know, it's going to be expensive, but it seems.
[00:11:34.080 --> 00:11:35.040] Let's start right there.
[00:11:36.480 --> 00:11:44.240] But it seems like a no-brainer, you know, after all these years of being a fan of everything that goes on in outer space.
[00:11:44.240 --> 00:11:50.320] So scientists and researchers are now proposing that the moon's extremely cold.
[00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:54.800] And, you know, it's in lots of places, it's permanently shadowed.
[00:11:54.800 --> 00:11:58.800] This is a good fit to cryopreserve animal cells.
[00:11:58.800 --> 00:12:00.800] And I suspect it would be the beginning.
[00:12:00.880 --> 00:12:09.040] If we successfully, you know, create a facility to contain this, then it would be probably other things too, like a seed bank and all that.
[00:12:09.040 --> 00:12:13.360] This would be the ultimate version, like I said, of a seed vault or a seed bank.
[00:12:13.520 --> 00:12:19.280] And this would safeguard Earth's biodiversity against all this stuff, right?
[00:12:20.080 --> 00:12:22.800] You know, the loose term is terrestrial threats.
[00:12:22.800 --> 00:12:33.640] You know, we're talking horrible weather, natural, you know, natural disasters, climate change, wars, socioeconomic disruptions, you know, another nice catch-all phrase there.
[00:12:33.800 --> 00:12:37.800] But, you know, things are kind of scary around the globe right now.
[00:12:37.800 --> 00:12:40.440] You know, things could get nice in 20 years and get scary again.
[00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:41.880] And we just don't know what the future is.
[00:12:41.880 --> 00:12:44.040] So it is a good idea.
[00:12:44.040 --> 00:12:49.000] You know, God for freaking bid we need it, but it's great that we would have this.
[00:12:49.000 --> 00:12:57.160] So this idea is led by Mary Hadgdorn from the Smithsonian Conservation Biology Institute.
[00:12:57.160 --> 00:13:00.520] They published their findings in the journal Bioscience.
[00:13:00.520 --> 00:13:02.040] So let's get to some details here.
[00:13:02.040 --> 00:13:05.960] So the moon's south pole is, of course, their chosen location.
[00:13:05.960 --> 00:13:12.360] This is because the temperatures are consistently at or below minus 196 degrees Celsius.
[00:13:12.360 --> 00:13:15.640] That's 300 minus 320 degrees Fahrenheit.
[00:13:15.640 --> 00:13:24.440] Now, absolute zero is minus 273 degrees Celsius or 400 and minus 459 degrees Fahrenheit.
[00:13:24.440 --> 00:13:30.040] But the moon's coldest temperature would serve very well as a natural cryogenic environment.
[00:13:30.040 --> 00:13:31.720] It doesn't need to be absolute zero.
[00:13:31.960 --> 00:13:38.360] It's definitely cold enough to have an incredibly long preservation effect at that temperature.
[00:13:38.360 --> 00:13:42.200] It wouldn't require power or constant oversight.
[00:13:42.200 --> 00:13:44.120] These are two huge things.
[00:13:44.120 --> 00:13:53.880] The moon would provide significantly more security and longevity than Earth's bio repositories, and for obvious reasons, like I said before.
[00:13:53.880 --> 00:14:03.000] So also the Earthbound ones need intensive management, constant electrical power, continuous supply of liquid nitrogen.
[00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:10.760] You know, there's all these things together, making them vulnerable to something as common as a significant bad weather event.
[00:14:10.760 --> 00:14:15.000] You know, they're going to pick places, of course, where there aren't earthquakes, but earthquakes can literally happen anywhere.
[00:14:15.760 --> 00:14:22.480] As a quick example, climate change, you know, tornadoes are becoming more common in freaking Connecticut in the United States.
[00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:28.880] You know, for a minor, you know, change in Earth's temperature, and like all of a sudden the weather's going crazy.
[00:14:28.880 --> 00:14:30.480] What's it going to be like in 30 years?
[00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:31.440] You know, who knows?
[00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:41.440] So, this project aims to initially target the most at-risk species, but of course, their ultimate hope here is to cryopreserve most animal species on Earth.
[00:14:41.440 --> 00:14:51.760] They've done some sample testing and they've done these in space-like conditions on Earth to test out the concept, you know, to ensure viability before being stored on the moon.
[00:14:51.760 --> 00:15:00.320] This involves challenges like developing robust packaging to protect samples from space's extreme conditions, you know, high levels of radiation.
[00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:06.080] They want to make sure that they maintain the cryogenic temperatures during transport, which is a big deal.
[00:15:06.080 --> 00:15:13.840] You know, I guess that they would bring them down to temperature on Earth, get them stable, you know, make sure everything is the way that they want, and then they would move them.
[00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:34.160] There's also the idea that a lot of different countries are going to want the really high-profile places on the moon, like all the really good places on the moon, like this, you know, because even though this would be a great place to store biology for a long term, it's also a good place for people to live because of how stable it is and the temperature is very, very consistent.
[00:15:34.160 --> 00:15:40.560] Additionally, the impact of microgravity, which Bob likes to talk a lot about, that could be a problem, right?
[00:15:40.560 --> 00:15:46.640] You don't want anything to like hit the facility, so we'd have to have it underground, you know, probably in a lava tube or something like that.
[00:15:46.640 --> 00:15:53.040] So, the Lunar Biorepository, this would operate as a co-op with different nations.
[00:15:53.040 --> 00:16:00.440] It would involve public and private-funded scientific partners, you know, similar to the seed vault that's found in Norway.
[00:16:00.760 --> 00:16:08.040] The ultimate goal here is to create this secure and sustainable solution that will preserve the Earth's biodiversity.
[00:16:08.040 --> 00:16:10.920] And, you know, again, I think it's a great idea.
[00:16:10.920 --> 00:16:12.520] It's going to be difficult.
[00:16:12.520 --> 00:16:19.800] It's going to, you know, all in, think about what we'd have to do and all of the samples that would have to be taken from all of these different animals.
[00:16:19.800 --> 00:16:22.120] I mean, think about the variety that we have.
[00:16:22.120 --> 00:16:25.560] And, you know, things are going to get more extreme as weather changes.
[00:16:25.560 --> 00:16:36.200] We're going to be losing a lot of creatures that live on the Earth, and we'd want to get their samples and stored on Earth probably before we would ship them up to the moon eventually.
[00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:39.160] And it is a pipe dream right now because think about what I'm saying here.
[00:16:39.160 --> 00:16:49.000] I'm talking about like, you know, a facility that's specifically for this in some underground lair, deep enough underground to protect from radiation and all that stuff.
[00:16:49.000 --> 00:16:52.920] So it's probably going to happen, but it's probably going to take a long time.
[00:16:52.920 --> 00:16:54.920] But this is what scientists do.
[00:16:54.920 --> 00:17:01.160] They plan way in advance because that's what you have to do, because everything has to be ready when you need it to be ready.
[00:17:01.160 --> 00:17:04.120] They're focusing on preserving skin cells.
[00:17:04.120 --> 00:17:12.760] That's because they can be easily cryopreserved and they can later be transformed into stem cells, which could recreate the species.
[00:17:12.760 --> 00:17:14.520] You know, there's other things that they could do.
[00:17:14.520 --> 00:17:20.600] Like they could preserve sperm and embryos, but that's way more complicated and just a much harder thing to pull off.
[00:17:20.680 --> 00:17:24.120] So I guess the stem cell route is the one that they think is the most viable.
[00:17:24.120 --> 00:17:29.720] But that's not as complete, though, as doing if you had a fertilized egg.
[00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:29.960] Yeah.
[00:17:30.280 --> 00:17:32.360] Or just even germline cells at all.
[00:17:32.360 --> 00:17:32.680] Right.
[00:17:32.840 --> 00:17:39.320] It's much better because, you know, a fertilized egg has the mitochondria, it has the cell structures in it.
[00:17:39.320 --> 00:17:47.920] If you just have like a skin cell that you can turn into a stem cell, it's not quite as good, but at least you get the DNA.
[00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:50.960] Well, I don't agree with you at all, Steve, just because I'm a jerk.
[00:17:44.760 --> 00:17:51.120] Okay.
[00:17:51.760 --> 00:17:52.800] No, you're right, Steve.
[00:17:52.800 --> 00:18:03.840] I did read a little bit about this, and that what you said tracks with what I read, but I guess the sperm and embryo thing is super hard to preserve for a long time.
[00:18:03.840 --> 00:18:06.880] Well, what are people using in frozen zoos on Earth?
[00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:10.400] I would imagine they're using sperm and embryos, but they can replenish, you know?
[00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:11.280] Yeah, that's true.
[00:18:11.280 --> 00:18:18.640] I've only ever done a deep dive into like frozen zoos for plants, which I think are much easier to cryo-preserve.
[00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:21.040] Well, aren't we just not seeds?
[00:18:21.040 --> 00:18:22.320] No, not always.
[00:18:22.320 --> 00:18:22.800] Okay.
[00:18:22.800 --> 00:18:25.760] Because I know we have the frozen seed bank up in Washington.
[00:18:25.840 --> 00:18:30.960] Yeah, we have the seed bank, but in Svalbard, yeah, yeah, but no, not always.
[00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:36.480] And I think that, yeah, frozen zoos, they do exist on Earth, right?
[00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:43.360] But we don't, I don't think we have every single species already catalogued and documented, or every known species, I should say.
[00:18:43.360 --> 00:18:43.840] Yeah.
[00:18:43.840 --> 00:18:46.000] No, I mean, that's a Herculean effort.
[00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:46.560] Exactly.
[00:18:46.560 --> 00:18:52.880] They're going to be testing more of this on Earth, and then they're going to bring some of the tests up to the space station just to see what happens.
[00:18:52.880 --> 00:19:00.880] You know, they're being very thorough about it, which is really smart because, you know, one, you know, one thing that they didn't think of could spoil it all.
[00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:03.200] So they want to really cover all their bases here.
[00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:03.600] Yeah.
[00:19:04.320 --> 00:19:08.880] Did they talk at all, Jay, about would that be better than just putting it in orbit?
[00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:11.120] They did not mention that at all, Steve.
[00:19:11.360 --> 00:19:11.920] I think.
[00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:17.200] They did mention radiation problems, so I think the radiation problems in space would add just another layer of.
[00:19:17.520 --> 00:19:18.960] Right, just a bunch of mutated things.
[00:19:19.840 --> 00:19:41.160] You know, and it is like a more complete solution, Steve, because, you know, I think anybody that is thinking of low Earth or, you know, some type of orbit around the Earth, the problem is, is that experts are starting to get very concerned about what's going to happen to all the space junk and how it could, you know, it could cascade into a really big problem.
[00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:50.840] So I would imagine that they'd want that solved before anyone would feel comfortable putting up like a permanent, you know, permanent thing in orbit that's just going to be there as a seed bank.
[00:19:50.840 --> 00:19:51.720] You know, I don't know.
[00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:57.080] I'm guessing at that, but I wouldn't feel comfortable putting anything in low Earth orbit right now.
[00:19:57.080 --> 00:20:02.840] Yeah, I mean, is the assumption that anything in low Earth orbit is technically permanent?
[00:20:03.160 --> 00:20:06.280] Well, it'd have to be high enough that there's no drag from the atmosphere.
[00:20:06.280 --> 00:20:06.680] Right.
[00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:07.240] Yeah.
[00:20:07.880 --> 00:20:11.080] But then at that point, yeah, like just collisions are probably pretty.
[00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:11.720] Yeah.
[00:20:11.720 --> 00:20:16.600] I mean, we have to be on the other side of this junk problem that we have in orbit around the Earth.
[00:20:16.600 --> 00:20:19.480] And that's that apparently is a long way off.
[00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:19.800] All right.
[00:20:19.800 --> 00:20:20.520] Thanks, Jay.
[00:20:20.520 --> 00:20:20.920] Yep.
[00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:24.600] Kara, tell us about the science of happiness.
[00:20:24.600 --> 00:20:37.320] There have been a lot of different studies that show different outcomes when we ask pretty basic questions about should we be aiming for the pursuit of happiness?
[00:20:37.320 --> 00:20:40.440] Should we be focusing on positive thinking?
[00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:48.840] This is an area, a research area that's really fascinating to me, mostly because of my work in psychoancology.
[00:20:48.840 --> 00:20:54.520] I hear a lot, and probably, Steve, I'm sure you run across this a lot in clinic as well.
[00:20:54.520 --> 00:21:04.680] A lot of sort of, whether it's magical thinking or whether it's actually thinking that probably lines up with some evidence that exists out there, there.
[00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:14.440] There's a lot of power or strength put into the idea of thinking positively and that being linked to health outcomes, right?
[00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:27.600] I mean, and so sometimes it's tough to talk about patients, to talk to patients about this issue in an informed way because the research evidence is kind of all over the place.
[00:21:27.600 --> 00:21:36.400] There is some pretty strong evidence that shows that pessimists actually do sometimes have better health outcomes because they're more likely to like go to the doctor.
[00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:37.760] So, oh, what's going on with me?
[00:21:37.760 --> 00:21:39.120] I need to go check this out.
[00:21:39.120 --> 00:21:52.720] But a lot of the studies, and this is the first thing that's pointed out in this new study, tend to focus on the fact that when people value happiness, like the more that they value happiness, the less happy they are.
[00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:55.600] And that seems like a weird paradox, right?
[00:21:55.600 --> 00:21:58.480] And so it's like, why would that be the case?
[00:21:58.480 --> 00:22:05.840] So a group of researchers published a new study in the journal Emotion called Unpacking the Pursuit of Happiness.
[00:22:05.840 --> 00:22:07.360] Ooh, I don't want to read the second half.
[00:22:07.360 --> 00:22:08.640] It spoils the whole study.
[00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:09.840] No, I'm going to.
[00:22:10.160 --> 00:22:17.440] Being concerned about happiness but not aspiring to happiness is linked with negative meta-emotions and worse well-being.
[00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:25.760] So sort of what they contend is that a lot of the studies, a lot of the research in this area conflate different constructs.
[00:22:25.760 --> 00:22:30.240] They don't drill down deep enough into what's actually being studied.
[00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:42.960] And so they wanted to make a pretty firm distinction between those two constructs that are listed in the title: being concerned about happiness or aspiring to happiness.
[00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:48.800] Those are two very different things, even though they sound like they would overlap or like they would be the same thing.
[00:22:48.800 --> 00:22:51.920] They recruited over 1,800 participants.
[00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:59.600] They divided it into three separate studies and they asked individuals to judge their own happiness.
[00:22:59.800 --> 00:23:09.960] And they did find that individuals who judged their own happiness reported across the board like lower well-being, increased negativity, and more disappointment in positive events.
[00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:11.880] And it's like, why would that happen?
[00:23:12.200 --> 00:23:19.000] Well, it's not necessarily saying to yourself, I want to pursue happiness.
[00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:21.080] Happiness is a goal of mine.
[00:23:21.080 --> 00:23:23.480] I want to put it in the center of my life.
[00:23:23.480 --> 00:23:25.320] I want to prioritize it.
[00:23:25.320 --> 00:23:28.200] That actually is not in and of itself harmful.
[00:23:28.200 --> 00:23:33.160] It's weirdly also not necessarily linked to positive outcomes.
[00:23:33.160 --> 00:23:35.400] It seems to just be kind of neutral.
[00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:50.760] The difference here is the self-reflection, it's the measurement, it's the introspection that comes with having an expectation, and that expectation not really always aligning with reality.
[00:23:50.760 --> 00:24:02.120] So, what the researchers basically found is that people who are constantly self-evaluating their happiness and going, Am I happy enough in this moment?
[00:24:02.120 --> 00:24:05.320] Is this giving me the joy that I was hoping that I was expecting?
[00:24:05.320 --> 00:24:08.760] They tend to experience lower life satisfaction.
[00:24:08.760 --> 00:24:13.720] They tend to experience, they rate higher on measures of depressive symptoms.
[00:24:13.720 --> 00:24:24.760] They also found that people who focused on judging their happiness, right, or constantly evaluating it, felt more negative generally about positive events.
[00:24:24.760 --> 00:24:29.320] So, you take two groups of people, you show them a positive event.
[00:24:29.320 --> 00:24:43.880] Those who are kind of critically evaluating whether or not they're happy, they tend to say that that positive thing was less positive than individuals who aren't undergoing that sort of meta process.
[00:24:44.200 --> 00:24:52.000] They also found that in general, and this is sort of the big takeaway from the study, it's the advice that the researchers sort of give.
[00:24:52.160 --> 00:25:03.120] It's also the advice that I often give in psychotherapy: accepting your authentic emotions as they come, not judging them and saying, wait, this isn't how it should be.
[00:25:03.120 --> 00:25:06.320] I need to change so that I can be more like what I should be.
[00:25:06.320 --> 00:25:08.320] But saying, no, this is how I am.
[00:25:08.320 --> 00:25:14.880] This is how I'm genuinely and authentically reacting to this experience does tend to lead to better psychological well-being.
[00:25:15.280 --> 00:25:25.200] So it's not a bad thing, according to this study and according to a lot of other studies, to put happiness in the center or to say happiness is a goal in your life.
[00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:30.800] I think where things start to go awry is when we set ourselves up to a standard.
[00:25:30.800 --> 00:25:39.520] And let's be honest, an impossible standard that I'm going to be happy and joyful all the time, that I'm always going to be positive about every experience that I have.
[00:25:39.520 --> 00:25:42.800] And it's very difficult to fulfill that standard.
[00:25:42.800 --> 00:25:53.280] And it seems to be the case that when we're constantly reflecting and asking ourselves if we do, we notice that we're falling short of an unrealistic expectation.
[00:25:53.280 --> 00:26:05.200] And when we fall short of an unrealistic expectation, our evaluation of that experience actually results in a negative kind of schema.
[00:26:05.200 --> 00:26:11.200] So it's interesting, in trying to be happy, we're often setting ourselves up for less happiness.
[00:26:11.520 --> 00:26:16.080] Is it like people are looking for the perfect happiness and because they can't achieve it, it therefore?
[00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:17.040] I think that's part of it.
[00:26:17.600 --> 00:26:18.320] I think that's part of it.
[00:26:18.320 --> 00:26:18.560] Yeah.
[00:26:18.560 --> 00:26:20.560] I mean, it's a little hard to define, right?
[00:26:20.560 --> 00:26:22.160] What is the perfect happiness?
[00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:22.800] Yeah.
[00:26:23.600 --> 00:26:29.760] I think it's an expectation of consistency in mood, which is not appropriate, and affect, which is not appropriate.
[00:26:30.040 --> 00:26:39.160] I think it's an expectation that somehow we have enough, that it's a failure of will if we have negative emotions.
[00:26:39.480 --> 00:26:40.920] And that's not the case.
[00:26:40.920 --> 00:26:44.440] It's a normal human experience to have negative emotions.
[00:26:44.440 --> 00:26:47.480] And most of the emotions that we have are quite adaptive.
[00:26:47.480 --> 00:26:50.600] Anger, fear, frustration.
[00:26:50.920 --> 00:26:56.440] Oftentimes these signal to us things that are really necessary for our evolutionary survival.
[00:26:56.440 --> 00:27:12.280] Of course, now we live in a world where we don't always have to require those things and we ruminate on them and we have a lot of negative kind of coping strategies that result in things like anxiety and depression backfiring and being chronic or being kind of misplaced.
[00:27:12.280 --> 00:27:20.520] But the truth of the matter is, yeah, there is this sort of social pressure, this toxic positivity, this power of positive thinking.
[00:27:20.520 --> 00:27:22.040] It very much links back.
[00:27:22.040 --> 00:27:24.680] Would you agree, Steve, to like the secret?
[00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:31.480] Yeah, it's also like blaming people for things not going well or for not being happy.
[00:27:31.480 --> 00:27:33.480] It's like there's something, and it's neurotic.
[00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:34.840] It's a lot of neuroticism.
[00:27:34.840 --> 00:27:37.240] It's like being anxious about being anxious.
[00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:37.560] Yep.
[00:27:37.640 --> 00:27:39.560] It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
[00:27:39.560 --> 00:27:46.600] I also find that, and it's tricky because, as you say, you want to take positive steps in your life.
[00:27:46.600 --> 00:27:47.960] Yeah, and you want to be more happy.
[00:27:48.600 --> 00:27:49.640] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:27:49.640 --> 00:28:05.400] But the thing is, oftentimes, ironically, for events that should be super happy, people are upset and sad because it's like they set an impossible standard.
[00:28:05.400 --> 00:28:06.760] It's like the bridezilla thing.
[00:28:06.760 --> 00:28:07.640] It's like the wedding.
[00:28:07.640 --> 00:28:09.960] The wedding day is supposed to be the happiest day in your life.
[00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:17.760] But if it doesn't go perfectly, then it's a disaster and you're all ends in tears, right?
[00:28:17.760 --> 00:28:21.280] Or you're on vacation and you want it to be the absolute best.
[00:28:21.280 --> 00:28:30.000] And so you get really neurotic and anxious about having it be the perfect event rather than just going with the flow to some extent.
[00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:31.440] And there's a happy medium in there.
[00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:33.280] You don't want to be too passive.
[00:28:33.280 --> 00:28:39.280] You want to, you know, again, plan to get the most out of things, but be okay with whatever happens, you know?
[00:28:39.840 --> 00:28:49.200] It's, you know, a strategy that I often use in therapy with patients that I work with with cancer is when they're dealing with things like scanxiety, which is a very common experience, right?
[00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:55.200] You're going to go in for an MRI or you're going to go in for a blood test and it's going to tell you where your tumor markers are.
[00:28:55.200 --> 00:28:55.760] Have they shrunk?
[00:28:55.760 --> 00:28:56.400] Have they grown?
[00:28:56.400 --> 00:28:57.200] Have they stayed the same?
[00:28:57.360 --> 00:28:59.440] It's incredibly anxiety-inducing.
[00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:02.000] That's a normal and healthy reaction.
[00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:10.400] But very often we talk about this strategy of hoping for the best while preparing for a not good outcome.
[00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:10.960] Yeah.
[00:29:10.960 --> 00:29:19.280] And finding that balance in our lives because we don't want to have delusional expectations of positive outcomes.
[00:29:19.280 --> 00:29:23.920] We will always be disappointed and we will always then be dealing with negative emotions.
[00:29:23.920 --> 00:29:32.880] But there's also, I think, an equally detrimental pessimistic strategy where people are like, well, if I never expect happiness, then I'm never going to be disappointed.
[00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:36.080] And that colors their day in and out.
[00:29:36.080 --> 00:29:39.040] Hoping for a positive outcome is a good thing.
[00:29:39.440 --> 00:29:42.880] But constantly self-reflecting and asking yourself, Am I happy enough?
[00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:43.600] Am I happy enough?
[00:29:43.600 --> 00:29:44.480] Am I happy enough?
[00:29:44.480 --> 00:29:45.600] That's not a good thing.
[00:29:45.840 --> 00:29:53.280] And it seems to be that this drills down a little bit deeper into the actual processes that underlie where things fall apart.
[00:29:53.840 --> 00:29:58.160] It's not as easy as saying positive thinking is bad or positive thinking is good.
[00:29:58.160 --> 00:30:02.360] It's what are we doing along the way and what components of it are beneficial?
[00:29:59.600 --> 00:30:04.440] What components of it can be detrimental?
[00:30:04.760 --> 00:30:05.880] It's interesting.
[00:30:05.880 --> 00:30:06.280] All right.
[00:30:06.280 --> 00:30:07.400] Thank you, Kara.
[00:30:07.720 --> 00:30:10.520] Guys, what do you know about measuring blood pressure?
[00:30:10.520 --> 00:30:12.680] This is not something I don't think we've ever talked about on the show.
[00:30:13.080 --> 00:30:14.040] We've talked about it.
[00:30:14.040 --> 00:30:14.600] No.
[00:30:14.600 --> 00:30:16.760] You take one of those things, you wrap it around your head.
[00:30:16.840 --> 00:30:18.280] It's called a sphygnomanometer.
[00:30:18.440 --> 00:30:19.160] Squeeze the air thing.
[00:30:21.160 --> 00:30:25.080] I know that there's invasive and not invasive, which I learned today.
[00:30:26.040 --> 00:30:31.400] Well, when do you think, when was the first time somebody measured blood pressure?
[00:30:31.720 --> 00:30:33.080] The day I was born, no?
[00:30:33.080 --> 00:30:35.880] No, no, I'm talking about historically.
[00:30:36.440 --> 00:30:37.320] You mean in history?
[00:30:37.640 --> 00:30:41.000] Well, they had to know what it was in order to measure it.
[00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:41.560] Or did they?
[00:30:41.640 --> 00:30:44.680] They had to have some concept that there was pressure inside the artery.
[00:30:44.680 --> 00:30:45.160] In the vessel.
[00:30:45.240 --> 00:30:46.760] And that it was important.
[00:30:46.760 --> 00:30:49.000] Oh, then it was probably like 1833.
[00:30:49.080 --> 00:30:49.960] 1733.
[00:30:49.960 --> 00:30:50.520] 1733.
[00:30:50.600 --> 00:30:51.400] Wow, that's interesting.
[00:30:51.400 --> 00:30:53.240] And was it just based on listening?
[00:30:53.240 --> 00:30:53.720] Nope.
[00:30:53.720 --> 00:30:56.280] No, it was actually an estimation of blood pressure.
[00:30:56.280 --> 00:30:59.240] What they did, this is Sir Stephen Hales.
[00:30:59.240 --> 00:31:08.760] He introduced a brass pipe into a horse's leg artery, connected it to a glass column, and measured how high the blood rose.
[00:31:08.760 --> 00:31:11.720] Oh, eight feet three inches.
[00:31:11.720 --> 00:31:12.280] Wow, interesting.
[00:31:12.440 --> 00:31:15.960] And it also would then rise and fall with the beating of the heart.
[00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:22.440] So he identified that, yeah, there is high pressure inside the artery, and it fluctuates with time.
[00:31:22.440 --> 00:31:27.480] It fluctuates over time, you know, in time with the beating of the heart.
[00:31:27.480 --> 00:31:29.160] So that was the first time.
[00:31:29.160 --> 00:31:35.000] It took about 100 years, though, before the next advance.
[00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:45.000] In 1828, that was the first time a mercury manometer was used to actually produce a quantifiable measurement of blood pressure.
[00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:53.680] So that was actually the invasive measurement of blood pressure preceded the non-invasive measurement of blood pressure.
[00:31:53.680 --> 00:32:03.440] And then you could actually also connect that to what was called a chymograph in order to produce a tracing of blood pressure so you could follow it over time.
[00:32:03.760 --> 00:32:21.760] And then in 1855 was the first time somebody was able to estimate blood pressure non-invasively by compressing the artery using how much pressure did it take to compress the artery, basically, to stop the blood from flowing.
[00:32:21.760 --> 00:32:25.280] And this is what led to the sigmo manometer.
[00:32:26.320 --> 00:32:29.120] And by 1901, Dr.
[00:32:29.120 --> 00:32:34.320] von Rechlenhausen added the broad inflatable arm cuff.
[00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:40.000] So you basically had modern blood pressure measurement in the early 1900s.
[00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:48.000] 1901, you had the Sphigmo, and then a few years later, they figured out how to measure the diastolic pressure, the lower number, right?
[00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:52.720] So it wasn't just the higher number when the artery was totally obliterated.
[00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:58.240] You could listen to the blood vessel, to the sounds of blood flowing, and also detect the lower number, right?
[00:32:58.240 --> 00:33:00.000] The diastolic blood pressure.
[00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:06.960] And that's all by 1905, you basically had modern, both invasive and non-invasive blood pressure monitoring.
[00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:10.560] And little has changed in the last 120 years.
[00:33:10.560 --> 00:33:17.520] By 1905, then, did we also have a good understanding that blood pressure was a good indicator of heart health?
[00:33:17.520 --> 00:33:18.080] Yes.
[00:33:18.080 --> 00:33:18.480] Okay.
[00:33:18.800 --> 00:33:20.960] Yeah, it became pretty standard.
[00:33:20.960 --> 00:33:25.080] And also, low blood pressure is an indication of severe trauma or blood loss or whatever.
[00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:26.960] So, or heart failure.
[00:33:26.960 --> 00:33:35.800] So, yeah, it was obviously there's a lot to learn at that point in time, but yes, the basic concept of this is important for measuring cardiac function was there.
[00:33:36.440 --> 00:33:42.680] So, it's interesting that, you know, 120 years, not much really has changed in terms of measuring blood pressure.
[00:33:42.680 --> 00:33:47.720] We're still using cuffs and tubes putting it into the artery, right?
[00:33:48.040 --> 00:33:58.840] Well, this leads me to the news item that I'm going to talk about today: a new method for the non-invasive measurement of blood pressure.
[00:33:58.840 --> 00:34:00.200] And what do you think they use?
[00:34:00.600 --> 00:34:04.440] What is the basic technology, if you had to guess, if you didn't read the article?
[00:34:04.440 --> 00:34:05.480] Your iPhone.
[00:34:05.800 --> 00:34:06.360] No.
[00:34:06.840 --> 00:34:07.560] Phrenology.
[00:34:07.560 --> 00:34:08.440] No, it's not phrenology.
[00:34:08.680 --> 00:34:09.560] Tricorder.
[00:34:09.560 --> 00:34:10.360] They use a noose.
[00:34:10.600 --> 00:34:12.840] All right, so no serious guesses.
[00:34:14.920 --> 00:34:16.200] They use ultrasound, right?
[00:34:16.200 --> 00:34:18.520] So it's based on sound waves.
[00:34:19.320 --> 00:35:12.160] Don't they use ultrasound also to image vessels when they're having a hard time getting a so what they're doing is using first of all they use what they call acoustic stimulation sound waves right paired with ultrasound imaging so they're essentially looking at the resonance properties of the artery and then they had to figure out the physics of everything you know I'm not going to get into these weeds but they figured out the physics of you know how does the artery respond to the acoustic stimulation as measured by the ultrasound imaging and then you can calculate from that a real-time blood pressure inside that artery and it's they say that it creates an artery agnostic, which means it can work on any artery, and demographic agnostic, which means it could work on anybody.
[00:35:12.160 --> 00:35:17.040] Calibration-free, it does not have to be constantly recalibrated like some methods.
[00:35:17.040 --> 00:35:21.440] Non-invasive way of continuous blood pressure monitoring.
[00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:28.080] So it's not just a one-time blood pressure, it's a continuous trace of blood pressure, which is very useful.
[00:35:28.080 --> 00:35:38.000] That's like if you're in the intensive care unit or even just like in a step-down unit, not on a regular floor, what we call a floor bed in a hospital because we don't have to monitor it.
[00:35:38.240 --> 00:35:42.320] How long does it usually take to get a blood pressure reading from someone?
[00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:47.440] Well, if you're just doing like a non-invasive blood pressure cuff reading, you can get it in a minute, right?
[00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:47.920] It doesn't take any longer.
[00:35:48.080 --> 00:35:49.520] Yeah, but you have to just do it over.
[00:35:49.600 --> 00:35:53.200] But that's a one-time, and it hurts sometimes.
[00:35:53.200 --> 00:36:02.160] Yeah, and what we so like on the floor, we would have like the automatic cuff now, and like every minute or two minutes, it'll do another pressure.
[00:36:02.160 --> 00:36:07.040] And if you need it that frequently, and if you but in the ICU, you can be on continuous monitors.
[00:36:07.200 --> 00:36:10.320] On the ICU, you can have an arterial line, right?
[00:36:10.480 --> 00:36:18.800] We put in what we call an A-line, an arterial line, and then you hook that up to a monitor, and you can have a continuous blood pressure monitoring that way.
[00:36:18.800 --> 00:36:20.560] But, you know, that's only accurate, right?
[00:36:20.880 --> 00:36:29.280] It's more accurate, it's more continuous, but it does have to be calibrated, and it is only in arteries that you could stick a catheter into.
[00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:30.320] Yeah, it's invasive.
[00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:34.000] It's invasive, and it's not artery agnostic, as they say.
[00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:41.120] So this, they say, with this method, it's non-invasive, and it's better, and it could be any artery that you want to.
[00:36:41.520 --> 00:36:48.880] Which is sometimes very important, because sometimes you don't just need to know the systemic blood pressure, like what the overall blood pressure is.
[00:36:48.880 --> 00:36:52.320] You might want to know what the blood pressure is of a specific artery.
[00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:55.200] Yeah, you might want to know, how's their blood pressure in their foot?
[00:36:55.200 --> 00:36:55.600] Yeah, exactly.
[00:36:55.840 --> 00:36:57.600] Like, is it getting enough flow?
[00:36:57.600 --> 00:36:58.120] Yeah, exactly.
[00:36:58.280 --> 00:36:59.040] Oh, that's interesting.
[00:36:59.040 --> 00:36:59.960] I never even thought of that.
[00:36:59.960 --> 00:37:02.360] Or in the carotid artery going up to the brain or whatever.
[00:36:59.520 --> 00:37:07.000] Like, there might be specific subsets of the vascular system that you're more interested in.
[00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:14.440] Yeah, I'm really interested to see if this technology will take off and how quickly it will get incorporated into regular hospital use.
[00:37:14.440 --> 00:37:16.440] It seems really great.
[00:37:16.440 --> 00:37:16.840] The patients are going to be able to do that.
[00:37:17.080 --> 00:37:21.640] I think that would be awesome because then you might even be able to see it on the regular floor.
[00:37:21.640 --> 00:37:24.520] I mean, if it got cheap enough for continuous monitoring.
[00:37:24.760 --> 00:37:42.040] But I'll tell you, one of my favorite things to do in the ICU that I can't do when I'm rounding in or when I'm seeing patients on the main floor is when we do like really intense relaxation techniques like deep belly breathing or like really kind of focused mindfulness techniques, they can watch their blood pressure drop.
[00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:43.640] And it's really cool to see.
[00:37:43.640 --> 00:37:47.400] It's like a form of biofeedback, but we can't do it on the main floor.
[00:37:47.720 --> 00:37:52.200] Yeah, so yeah, I mean, I was, you know, definitely encouraged by this.
[00:37:52.200 --> 00:37:57.320] I think it's a great little gadget if it, again, if it all works out, but you know, it's looking good.
[00:37:57.880 --> 00:38:02.280] But looking back, it's like, wow, things really haven't changed too much in 100 years.
[00:38:02.280 --> 00:38:03.240] So this is like the first time.
[00:38:03.400 --> 00:38:05.880] Well, because like for the most part, right?
[00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:09.640] And I like, and there's some things I like about if something's not broken, why would you fix it?
[00:38:09.880 --> 00:38:14.760] I think a lot of technology is solving problems that don't exist, which is kind of annoying.
[00:38:14.760 --> 00:38:17.400] But this is cool because there is a real use for it.
[00:38:17.400 --> 00:38:21.800] Yeah, but this is something that was needed, a non-invasive way to continuously measure blood pressure.
[00:38:21.880 --> 00:38:24.040] It's not like we didn't know that we had this need.
[00:38:24.040 --> 00:38:26.600] It was just no one's been able to fill it before.
[00:38:26.600 --> 00:38:28.200] Yeah, it's very cool.
[00:38:28.200 --> 00:38:29.080] All right.
[00:38:29.080 --> 00:38:33.880] Bob, tell us about the first complex life to evolve on Earth.
[00:38:33.880 --> 00:38:48.800] So, guys, a new study suggests that complex life on Earth did not necessarily first arise 635 million years ago, as commonly believed, but may have made a staggering 2.1 billion years ago.
[00:38:49.120 --> 00:38:52.240] And so, what leads these researchers to believe that?
[00:38:52.240 --> 00:38:53.440] What could make them believe that?
[00:38:53.440 --> 00:38:57.200] And what happened to these proposed first Earth animals?
[00:38:57.200 --> 00:39:00.720] The paper was published in the journal Precambrian Research.
[00:39:00.720 --> 00:39:02.960] Sounds like a cool journal I'd like to check out.
[00:39:02.960 --> 00:39:04.400] Its lead author is Dr.
[00:39:04.400 --> 00:39:08.880] Ernest Chu Fru at Cardiff University School of Earth and Environmental Sciences.
[00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:16.720] The study's name is Hydrothermal Seawater Eutrophication Triggered Local Macrobiological Blah blah blah blah.
[00:39:16.720 --> 00:39:18.400] And more words.
[00:39:18.400 --> 00:39:22.400] So, what a fascinating possibility this paper presents.
[00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:24.480] But we need to start at the beginning, as usual.
[00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:28.960] So, when did life and complex life begin on Earth, according to the scientific consensus?
[00:39:28.960 --> 00:39:37.920] Fossil evidence put the earliest bacteria-like life around three and a half to potentially over 4.1 billion years ago.
[00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:42.080] And that's just the first potential evidence that we found.
[00:39:42.080 --> 00:39:46.640] I mean, clearly, it started and didn't fossilize in any way.
[00:39:46.640 --> 00:39:48.720] So, that's pretty fast.
[00:39:49.040 --> 00:39:56.080] Like, after Earth, yeah, we're basically learning as soon as Earth cooled enough, life just kind of like leaped into existence.
[00:39:56.080 --> 00:39:58.080] But the next stage took a little longer.
[00:39:58.080 --> 00:40:03.520] The first evidence of complex multicellular life appears to have begun 635 million years ago.
[00:40:03.520 --> 00:40:05.200] That's pretty much the consensus.
[00:40:05.200 --> 00:40:08.400] So, that was a hell of a long time between the two, right?
[00:40:08.400 --> 00:40:17.200] So, single-celled life took 2.8 to 3.7 billion years for these cells to hook up for the most consequential orgy the Earth has ever seen.
[00:40:17.200 --> 00:40:19.200] So, why did it take so long?
[00:40:19.520 --> 00:40:21.680] And there's lots of reasons for that.
[00:40:21.680 --> 00:40:30.280] One reason it took so long is that the proper nutrients just were not available to the single-celled life that was extant.
[00:40:29.920 --> 00:40:37.000] Oxygen was increasing at that time, but there wasn't enough to support larger organisms, is what scientists believe.
[00:40:37.240 --> 00:40:42.600] The other critical nutrient that people are maybe not so much aware of is phosphorus.
[00:40:42.600 --> 00:40:46.120] Phosphorus is absolutely critical to life on Earth.
[00:40:46.120 --> 00:40:49.800] Phosphorus is a key ingredient in DNA and RNA.
[00:40:49.800 --> 00:40:55.160] It was also probably critical to the prebiotic chemistry that eventually led to life on Earth.
[00:40:55.160 --> 00:40:59.400] Phosphorus is also the P in ATP, adenosine triphosphate.
[00:40:59.400 --> 00:41:02.120] That's the energy currency for all Earth life.
[00:41:02.120 --> 00:41:05.320] If you want to move, you're going to need some ATP.
[00:41:05.320 --> 00:41:07.960] Bottom line, full stop right there.
[00:41:07.960 --> 00:41:10.920] So, yeah, phosphorus is pretty important stuff.
[00:41:10.920 --> 00:41:18.760] So, if you track the rise of bioavailable oxygen and phosphorus in Earth's history, you find a huge increase 635 million years ago.
[00:41:18.760 --> 00:41:23.720] And that coincides, obviously, with the first solid evidence of multicellular life on Earth.
[00:41:23.720 --> 00:41:25.480] So, it's very easy to make that connection.
[00:41:25.480 --> 00:41:30.440] Like, oh, look, bioavailable oxygen and phosphorus really peaked here.
[00:41:30.440 --> 00:41:37.000] And, oh, look, multicellular, the first life, the first animals started arising at that time.
[00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:42.200] And these elements are obviously very important and critical.
[00:41:42.200 --> 00:41:45.720] So, yeah, so there is a strong link there, we believe.
[00:41:45.720 --> 00:41:49.800] So, why would anyone think that complex life began earlier than that?
[00:41:49.800 --> 00:41:57.960] And I'll cut to the chase because these researchers claim that there was an earlier localized spike of available oxygen and phosphorus.
[00:41:57.960 --> 00:41:59.880] But that's getting ahead of myself a little bit.
[00:42:00.120 --> 00:42:12.200] This all starts here in the Franceville Basin on the Atlantic coast of Central Africa, a continent that CARA loves, which contains unusual sedimentary rock.
[00:42:12.520 --> 00:42:15.600] In this rock, they found these weird structures.
[00:42:14.840 --> 00:42:18.240] They discovered this many years ago.
[00:42:18.400 --> 00:42:25.840] You know, I could not find the year these rocks were discovered, but it was the sense I get was you know 20, 30 years ago.
[00:42:25.840 --> 00:42:34.080] The individual duoconstructs were within this rock were semi-spherical with thinner, outer membranous edges, thinner edges.
[00:42:34.400 --> 00:42:37.360] They're small, about seven centimeters in size.
[00:42:37.360 --> 00:42:43.120] So it's actually hard to figure out, you know, what is what were these things?
[00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:44.720] Was it alive?
[00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:46.960] Was it never alive?
[00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:48.080] What was it?
[00:42:48.080 --> 00:42:51.840] And scientists go back and forth on what they think it was.
[00:42:51.840 --> 00:42:58.800] So we don't know for sure precisely what these things were, but if you want to imagine them, you know what they totally remind me of.
[00:42:58.800 --> 00:43:04.400] And Kara, I'm sure you remember the original series Star Trek episode, Operation Annihilate.
[00:43:04.400 --> 00:43:05.520] Operation Annihilate.
[00:43:05.520 --> 00:43:06.560] Now remember that one?
[00:43:06.560 --> 00:43:17.680] Those weird kind of pancake-shaped creatures that fly and they attack you and they attach to your back and they drive you and then you kind of go like literally crazy when they're attached to you and one lands on Spock.
[00:43:17.680 --> 00:43:18.400] Remember those?
[00:43:18.400 --> 00:43:19.200] I remember I created one.
[00:43:20.240 --> 00:43:20.880] I created one.
[00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:22.960] Yes, she remembers that.
[00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:25.600] I created one for my bridge.
[00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:29.200] For my Jim Kirk costume, I created one at a latex.
[00:43:29.200 --> 00:43:30.240] It was really cool.
[00:43:30.240 --> 00:43:40.480] So when these rocks were discovered, researchers were like, I don't know if this is a fossil or not, but I know that whatever this is, there's something interesting in here that we need to investigate further.
[00:43:40.480 --> 00:43:41.680] Absolutely, one way or the other.
[00:43:41.680 --> 00:43:51.440] And of course, you know, one possibility is incredibly amazing if it really was some sort of life that existed that far in the past.
[00:43:51.440 --> 00:43:57.840] But I mean, it's just, you know, you'll understand a little bit better after this next little section here.
[00:43:57.840 --> 00:43:59.480] So I'm going to go into detail.
[00:43:59.280 --> 00:44:03.160] So there was a central body that was surrounded by radial structures.
[00:44:03.480 --> 00:44:12.200] And other structures are described by scientists as convoluted tubes with a string of pearl shapes that ended in some flower-like shape.
[00:44:12.200 --> 00:44:17.800] So some scientists even describe them as being reminiscent of slime molds and amoebol organisms.
[00:44:18.280 --> 00:44:26.440] So some think that these are true fossils created by single-celled or even multicellular creatures some 2.1 billion years ago.
[00:44:26.440 --> 00:44:28.360] And of course, that would be extraordinary.
[00:44:28.360 --> 00:44:36.280] If that were true, oh my god, that would be Nobel Prizes and scientific craziness if they found complex life that far away.
[00:44:36.280 --> 00:44:38.040] But we really don't know.
[00:44:38.040 --> 00:44:39.880] Others say that they're not fossils at all.
[00:44:39.880 --> 00:44:43.800] They're pseudo-fossils, they say, of inorganic pyrites.
[00:44:43.800 --> 00:44:51.800] Some describe them as just these simple concretions, essentially hard masses created by precipitating minerals, okay?
[00:44:52.120 --> 00:44:55.720] And that's where this has stood for a number of years now.
[00:44:55.720 --> 00:44:58.680] Some think that this could be some form of early life.
[00:44:58.680 --> 00:45:02.840] Many think that this is not enough evidence and it's probably something that's not organic.
[00:45:02.840 --> 00:45:11.400] So without further evidence, it seems reasonable to conclude that these are more likely to be just complex geological structures formed in rock and that's it.
[00:45:11.400 --> 00:45:19.320] I mean, that's that's really, you can't be too, you know, you can't really just say, oh, it was alive, you know, without any more evidence.
[00:45:19.320 --> 00:45:24.120] But this latest evidence, though, may force a bit of a rethink on this.
[00:45:24.120 --> 00:45:32.840] Now, these researchers did a geochemical analysis of this sedimentary rock in that basin in Africa, and their inclusions are fascinating and pretty intense.
[00:45:32.840 --> 00:45:51.600] They say that what happened in that area over 2 billion years ago, two continents collided, and the subsequent underwater volcanic activity was so unusual that it created this unique nutrient-rich laboratory that let evolution essentially experiment with biological life like it never has before.
[00:45:51.920 --> 00:45:54.720] So, that's kind of an overview of what their conclusion is.
[00:45:54.880 --> 00:45:56.480] Geomicrobiologist Dr.
[00:45:56.480 --> 00:46:09.520] Chi Fru said: We think that the underwater volcanoes which followed the collision further restricted and even cut off this section of water from the global ocean to create a nutrient-rich, shallow marine inland sea.
[00:46:09.760 --> 00:46:24.240] He continues: This created a localized environment where cyanobacterial photosynthesis was abundant for an extended period of time, leading to the oxygenation of local seawater and the generation of a large food resource.
[00:46:24.640 --> 00:46:35.280] So, they're proposing that this continental collision and volcanic activity over 2 billion years ago formed a stable inland sea, which was nutrient-enriched with phosphorus.
[00:46:35.280 --> 00:46:38.560] The sea was like an oasis for photosynthetic bacteria.
[00:46:38.560 --> 00:46:41.840] They just kind of hung out, sunbathing with their margaritas.
[00:46:41.840 --> 00:46:51.360] Over time, this resulted in two critical things that complex life needed: oxygenated water and an abundance of phosphorus from the volcanism and tectonic activity.
[00:46:51.520 --> 00:46:57.920] Those are the two exact things that I said earlier were critical to complex organisms, multicellular life.
[00:46:57.920 --> 00:47:04.880] So, this is exactly the two components that we think were critical for complex life 635 million years ago.
[00:47:04.880 --> 00:47:15.840] And these researchers believe it happened first, potentially, in this localized area 2.1 billion years ago, appropriately enough in Africa, or what eventually became Africa.
[00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:28.560] Frou then says, This would have provided sufficient energy to promote an increase in body size and greater complex behavior observed in primitive, simple, animal-like life forms, such as those found in the fossils from this period.
[00:47:28.560 --> 00:47:38.120] So, this wasn't just an oasis for bacteria, it was a nutrient-rich laboratory for genetic tinkering, potentially creating the first animal life on the Earth.
[00:47:38.120 --> 00:47:40.040] Now, how fantastic would that be?
[00:47:40.200 --> 00:47:46.360] I really hope that they get even more evidence for this because this would really be an amazing discovery.
[00:47:46.360 --> 00:47:54.120] So, the next thing you might be wondering, though, is well, why did this biological renaissance fail, assuming it even existed, of course?
[00:47:54.120 --> 00:48:03.720] Now, there's no solid evidence for why, but perhaps I think, and some people are saying that that oasis created by plate tectonics and volcanism was too isolated.
[00:48:04.040 --> 00:48:10.280] It really was not pleasant on Earth, in most of the Earth, all over, not for complex life anyway.
[00:48:10.680 --> 00:48:13.400] It was the only place on Earth like it, probably.
[00:48:13.400 --> 00:48:17.160] There was no new influx of resources coming in.
[00:48:17.160 --> 00:48:22.680] This was an isolated area that was created through very special sequence of events.
[00:48:22.680 --> 00:48:24.360] So, nothing really new was coming in.
[00:48:24.360 --> 00:48:27.080] It was like a greenhouse in the winter, essentially.
[00:48:27.080 --> 00:48:39.640] So, for billions of more years after this event, the Earth as a whole was still inimical to multicellular life, and that prevented this amazing evolutionary experiment from taking a foothold globally.
[00:48:40.040 --> 00:48:40.920] That's what I think.
[00:48:41.400 --> 00:48:46.440] In this study, they don't really talk about that extensively at all, but that seems pretty likely to me.
[00:48:46.440 --> 00:48:58.200] If this happened, that it's just something that potentially happened and then just couldn't spread elsewhere because it was just too isolated, and the Earth was not a nice place for animals.
[00:48:58.200 --> 00:49:01.880] So, what probably happened was that they eventually ran out of resources and died out.
[00:49:02.120 --> 00:49:04.200] How sad is that to think about that?
[00:49:04.200 --> 00:49:05.800] If that's what happened, how sad.
[00:49:05.800 --> 00:49:11.560] You know, it's also not sad because then we wouldn't exist if they took over back then.
[00:49:11.560 --> 00:49:24.560] But then it's kind of sad again because imagine, imagine what that life could have been like here on Earth now with literally three billion more years of evolution under our belts.
[00:49:24.560 --> 00:49:25.840] I mean, what a thought.
[00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:34.000] What life, the diversity of life and what kind of life that may have evolved with billions of more years of evolutionary tinkering.
[00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:35.600] Incredible to conceive.
[00:49:35.600 --> 00:49:50.800] So really interesting, how fascinating to think that over 2 billion years ago, the Earth might have had, you know, its first real try at complex life, multicellular life, and it worked for like millennia potentially.
[00:49:50.800 --> 00:49:53.600] And then eventually, like, ah, sorry, can't finish this.
[00:49:53.600 --> 00:49:56.480] And it just kind of like just kind of like they all died out.
[00:49:56.480 --> 00:49:57.200] False start.
[00:49:57.200 --> 00:49:58.080] False start.
[00:49:58.080 --> 00:50:06.640] And finally, the environment, you know, around most of the Earth or much of the Earth, the nutrients were all there that were needed and all the other factors.
[00:50:06.640 --> 00:50:11.520] Everything was right now for that second try at complex life.
[00:50:11.520 --> 00:50:13.840] And it worked, which is pretty awesome.
[00:50:13.840 --> 00:50:14.800] But I hope this is true.
[00:50:14.800 --> 00:50:15.520] It might not be.
[00:50:15.520 --> 00:50:23.360] This is, you know, there's a lot of interesting speculation here, but there's no, you know, there's no home run, you know, like, oh boy, they really did it.
[00:50:23.360 --> 00:50:28.960] You know, the evidence is interesting and compelling, but it's not, you know, ironclad and like a done deal at all.
[00:50:28.960 --> 00:50:32.560] But I hope they investigate this even further because that would be pretty amazing.
[00:50:32.560 --> 00:50:32.880] All right.
[00:50:32.880 --> 00:50:33.760] Thanks, Bob.
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[00:51:37.640 --> 00:51:41.240] All right, Evan, give us an update on life on Venus.
[00:51:41.240 --> 00:51:49.240] Yes, back in September of 2020, I reported on a news item concerning the planet Venus and how there could be signatures of life.
[00:51:49.240 --> 00:51:50.120] Ooh.
[00:51:50.120 --> 00:52:01.160] Yeah, because back in June of 2017, using the James Clerk Maxwell Telescope in Hawaii, along with the Atacama Large Millimeter Array in Chile, Dr.
[00:52:01.160 --> 00:52:09.080] Jane Greaves and her team at Cardiff University were studying the atmosphere of Venus and they discovered something amazing.
[00:52:09.080 --> 00:52:19.720] As we know, we've talked about this many times on the show, specific molecules will absorb light coming through the clouds of an atmosphere of a planet at different characteristic wavelengths.
[00:52:19.720 --> 00:52:21.480] And through this process, Dr.
[00:52:21.480 --> 00:52:26.760] Greaves and her team detected phosphine, which was a very unexpected result.
[00:52:26.760 --> 00:52:28.040] Why unexpected?
[00:52:28.040 --> 00:52:33.960] Because the scientific understanding of phosphine here on Earth is that it's made only one of two ways.
[00:52:33.960 --> 00:52:36.920] Number one, artificially by human technology.
[00:52:36.920 --> 00:52:45.000] Number two, naturally by anaerobic bacteria, generally in things like, you know, rotting corpses, fecal matter, and worms.
[00:52:45.040 --> 00:52:45.520] Yuck.
[00:52:45.680 --> 00:52:50.880] Phosphine is comprised of one atom of phosphorus topping a base of three hydrogen atoms.
[00:52:50.880 --> 00:52:53.360] The chemical formula is pH3.
[00:52:53.360 --> 00:52:59.360] Phosphine gas is described by one scientist as, quote, not very pleasant.
[00:52:59.360 --> 00:53:05.760] Yeah, pure phosphine is odorless, but technical-grade samples smell like rotting fish.
[00:53:05.760 --> 00:53:09.120] It is toxic, and it is spontaneously flammable.
[00:53:09.120 --> 00:53:12.640] So, not the nicest material or substance out there.
[00:53:12.640 --> 00:53:23.520] Now, the team's announcement received considerable media attention at the time and led to a controversy that accumulated in rebukes from some in the scientific community.
[00:53:23.520 --> 00:53:35.040] Arguably, the sharpest criticism was leveled by the organizing committee of the International Astronomical Union, the IAU, their Commission F30 on Astrobiology.
[00:53:35.040 --> 00:53:41.600] They questioned the ethics of Greaves and her team over the manner in which the discovery was revealed.
[00:53:41.600 --> 00:53:50.720] Part of their argument was that the data that they obtained was very noisy, and there were these various algorithms that they used to reduce the data.
[00:53:50.720 --> 00:53:56.400] So, there's some question as to the reliability of that data that was ultimately pulled out of the signals.
[00:53:56.400 --> 00:54:13.200] But the other thing they did is they came out and said, well, quote, it's an ethical duty for any scientist to communicate with the media and the public with great scientific rigor and to be careful not to overstate any interpretation which will be irretrievably picked up by the press.
[00:54:13.200 --> 00:54:22.640] Adding that they want to remind everyone, that the relevant researchers need to understand how the press and the media behave before communicating with them.
[00:54:22.640 --> 00:54:33.880] So, they kind of, you know, give them the ruler on the back of the hand, you know, wrap the knuckles in a way saying, you know, you didn't handle this right, and you got to be careful about, you know, how the press and the media and everything is going to take this.
[00:54:34.120 --> 00:54:37.240] And so then there was backlash to that, right?
[00:54:37.240 --> 00:54:44.680] Where the IAU came under scrutiny for saying, you guys went too far kind of with your criticism in this regard.
[00:54:44.680 --> 00:54:50.360] So it kind of all became kind of a messy thing and kind of in its own way.
[00:54:50.360 --> 00:54:57.480] So what happened is they retracted their statement, the IAU, and they kind of replaced it with this.
[00:54:57.880 --> 00:55:08.360] They said that the observed pH 3 feature through the telescope data can be fully explained employing plausible mesospheric sulfur dioxide abundances.
[00:55:08.360 --> 00:55:18.440] And the identification of pH 3 with another tele, the other telescope that they used, the one out of Chile, should be considered invalid due to severe baseline calibration issues.
[00:55:18.440 --> 00:55:35.800] Okay, so they went really, they pulled back their criticism about the media and they replaced it with something that was, you know, more technical, basically saying that, you know, here are the reasons why you shouldn't have, you know, you shouldn't have brought it out in this way or said, you know, hey, there's a life signature, a possible life signature.
[00:55:35.800 --> 00:55:36.680] Even though they did.
[00:55:36.920 --> 00:55:46.680] They said in their paper, when this first came out, they said, even if confirmed, we emphasize that the detection of pH er is not robust evidence for life, only for anomalous and unexplained chemistry.
[00:55:46.680 --> 00:55:47.240] Okay.
[00:55:47.240 --> 00:55:49.640] So they feel that they hedged it enough, you know, Dr.
[00:55:49.640 --> 00:55:50.600] Greaves and her team.
[00:55:50.600 --> 00:55:52.280] So that was the controversy at the time.
[00:55:52.280 --> 00:55:54.360] But there's an update now.
[00:55:54.360 --> 00:56:02.600] Four years later, Venus and the data are getting another look, both in observation of prior records and a collection of new and improved data.
[00:56:02.600 --> 00:56:10.200] Greaves and her colleagues presented fresh evidence for an upcoming scientific paper at this year's Royal Astronomical Society meeting in England.
[00:56:10.200 --> 00:56:22.000] New observations potentially strengthen the past findings, hinting at the presence of biosignatures that, if confirmed, could mean life forms are able to thrive in the planet's harsh environment.

Prompt 2: Key Takeaways

Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.

Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...". 

Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive. 

IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}

Prompt 3: Segments

Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.

For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)  
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion

IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
  "segments": [
    {
      "segment_title": "Topic Discussion", 
      "timestamp": "01:15:30",
      "key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
      "segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
    }
  ]
}

Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.

Prompt 4: Media Mentions

Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:

Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)  
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)

DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names

IMPORTANT: 
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
  "media_mentions": [
    {
      "title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
      "category": "Book",
      "author_artist": "N/A",
      "context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
      "context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
      "timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
    }
  ]
}

If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}

Prompt 5: Context Setup

You are an expert data extractor tasked with analyzing a podcast transcript. 
I will provide you with part 2 of 3 from a podcast transcript. 
I will then ask you to extract different types of information from this content in subsequent messages. Please confirm you have received and understood the transcript content.

Transcript section:
hey kind of replaced it with this.
[00:54:57.880 --> 00:55:08.360] They said that the observed pH 3 feature through the telescope data can be fully explained employing plausible mesospheric sulfur dioxide abundances.
[00:55:08.360 --> 00:55:18.440] And the identification of pH 3 with another tele, the other telescope that they used, the one out of Chile, should be considered invalid due to severe baseline calibration issues.
[00:55:18.440 --> 00:55:35.800] Okay, so they went really, they pulled back their criticism about the media and they replaced it with something that was, you know, more technical, basically saying that, you know, here are the reasons why you shouldn't have, you know, you shouldn't have brought it out in this way or said, you know, hey, there's a life signature, a possible life signature.
[00:55:35.800 --> 00:55:36.680] Even though they did.
[00:55:36.920 --> 00:55:46.680] They said in their paper, when this first came out, they said, even if confirmed, we emphasize that the detection of pH er is not robust evidence for life, only for anomalous and unexplained chemistry.
[00:55:46.680 --> 00:55:47.240] Okay.
[00:55:47.240 --> 00:55:49.640] So they feel that they hedged it enough, you know, Dr.
[00:55:49.640 --> 00:55:50.600] Greaves and her team.
[00:55:50.600 --> 00:55:52.280] So that was the controversy at the time.
[00:55:52.280 --> 00:55:54.360] But there's an update now.
[00:55:54.360 --> 00:56:02.600] Four years later, Venus and the data are getting another look, both in observation of prior records and a collection of new and improved data.
[00:56:02.600 --> 00:56:10.200] Greaves and her colleagues presented fresh evidence for an upcoming scientific paper at this year's Royal Astronomical Society meeting in England.
[00:56:10.200 --> 00:56:22.000] New observations potentially strengthen the past findings, hinting at the presence of biosignatures that, if confirmed, could mean life forms are able to thrive in the planet's harsh environment.
[00:56:22.320 --> 00:56:39.280] Greaves and her team succeeded in detecting phosphine again in deeper portions of the planet's atmosphere during observations, once again made with the James Clark Maxwell telescope, which had a new receiver installed in these past years on the telescope.
[00:56:39.280 --> 00:56:45.520] And now they have collected as much as 140 times more data than previous observation yielded.
[00:56:45.520 --> 00:56:49.440] And they include the additional detections of what phosphine.
[00:56:49.680 --> 00:57:01.600] Not only that, there's new evidence showing the presence of ammonia, which is another gas that, say, is the result of perhaps, you know, well, on Earth at least, you know, it's biological activity.
[00:57:01.840 --> 00:57:10.480] One scientist said that the presence of ammonia on Venus, if it can be confirmed, is more significant even than the discovery of the phosphine.
[00:57:10.480 --> 00:57:21.440] Greaves, in an interview with CNN, said: the exciting thing behind this would be if some kind of microbial life making the ammonia, because that would be a neat way for it to regulate its own environment.
[00:57:21.440 --> 00:57:32.720] It would make its environment much less acidic and much more survivable to the point it's only as acidic as some of the most extreme places on Earth, so not completely crazy.
[00:57:33.040 --> 00:57:38.240] Also went on to say there are many significant unknowns about the Venusian surface and atmosphere.
[00:57:38.240 --> 00:57:45.120] Even a gold standard discovery of two bio-associated molecules is not evidence that life is extant.
[00:57:45.440 --> 00:57:50.640] So, again, you know, kind of hammering that again, saying, like, no, this is not evidence of life.
[00:57:50.640 --> 00:57:53.120] We're just saying this is what we've discovered.
[00:57:53.120 --> 00:57:57.280] We have the, you know, it's saying it's phosphine, it's saying it's ammonia.
[00:57:57.280 --> 00:57:59.440] We need more data.
[00:57:59.440 --> 00:58:02.600] And there will be attempts and there will be opportunities for more data.
[00:58:02.840 --> 00:58:12.600] They say there are some limitations with these Earth ground-based observations, but in the future, we're going to have stuff that is not ground-based.
[00:58:12.600 --> 00:58:24.360] NASA's Deep Atmosphere Venus Investigation of Noble Gases Chemistry and Imaging, which is DAVINCI, the Da Vinci mission.
[00:58:24.360 --> 00:58:28.920] It will dispatch a probe into Venus's harsh environment and measure its atmosphere.
[00:58:28.920 --> 00:58:30.600] This happens in 2029.
[00:58:30.600 --> 00:58:32.200] It's on schedule for that.
[00:58:32.200 --> 00:58:39.560] Also, the European Space Agency's Jupiter Icy Moons Explorer is going to pass close to Venus next year.
[00:58:39.560 --> 00:58:45.720] It's equipped with instruments that could potentially obtain useful data that may complement the finding by Dr.
[00:58:45.720 --> 00:58:47.800] Greaves and her colleagues.
[00:58:47.800 --> 00:58:55.000] So, Venus is back in the news again, and it's a continuing story, an evolving story.
[00:58:55.000 --> 00:58:57.960] It's by no means dead.
[00:58:58.280 --> 00:59:10.360] Yeah, I mean, I do like how it showcases the scientific process here and how scientists at least try to be very circumspect, you know, and very humble in their presentation of their data.
[00:59:10.360 --> 00:59:17.080] And even when they color just a little bit out of the lines, as you said, they get wrapped on the knuckles, even if it was a little heavy-handed.
[00:59:17.080 --> 00:59:20.600] It's still like, you know, we have to be very careful how we communicate to the public.
[00:59:20.600 --> 00:59:30.440] You can't throw out the word life, you know, without understanding how the press is going to pick up on that and use it and distort the actual science here.
[00:59:30.840 --> 00:59:36.120] And then people are left with the impression that all those scientists said there was life on Mars and on Venus and they said there isn't.
[00:59:36.120 --> 00:59:37.240] They don't know what they're talking about.
[00:59:37.240 --> 00:59:39.240] You know, that's what it leads to.
[00:59:39.640 --> 00:59:49.840] But at the same time, this is genuinely exciting, although we don't know what it means, and it may mean nothing, or it may just be, oh, yeah, there's some interesting chemistry happening on Venus, but there's nothing to do with life.
[00:59:44.840 --> 00:59:50.000] Right.
[00:59:50.240 --> 00:59:52.800] So we have to just, yeah, just wait for more evidence.
[00:59:53.120 --> 00:59:53.520] Well, nothing.
[00:59:53.680 --> 00:59:56.720] In another four or five years, we'll probably have another update on this one.
[00:59:56.720 --> 00:59:58.400] Yep, yep, yep, yep.
[00:59:58.720 --> 00:59:59.200] All right.
[00:59:59.200 --> 01:00:00.080] Thanks, Evan.
[01:00:00.080 --> 01:00:00.480] Thanks.
[01:00:00.640 --> 01:00:02.560] All right, Jay, it's who's that noisy time?
[01:00:02.560 --> 01:00:03.200] All right, guys.
[01:00:03.200 --> 01:00:05.360] Last week I played This Noisy.
[01:00:13.360 --> 01:00:18.560] Now, if you remember, I told you that the rhythm of the noise is meaningless.
[01:00:19.360 --> 01:00:21.280] I got a ton of guesses on this one.
[01:00:21.280 --> 01:00:25.920] This week, I'm definitely mostly picking people in the order that they come in, just to be fair.
[01:00:25.920 --> 01:00:30.480] Like, if someone answers before somebody else, like, I give them a little higher priority.
[01:00:30.800 --> 01:00:35.920] But I do sometimes pick out ones that came in days later if they're really interesting.
[01:00:35.920 --> 01:00:43.280] So, this person, Hunter Richards, wrote in and said, I'm not a gun person by any stretch, but this sounds like an airsoft rifle being fired.
[01:00:43.280 --> 01:00:48.480] He says he can hear birds in the background, so he thinks that it's basically at a target range.
[01:00:48.480 --> 01:00:58.080] So, I did not hear birds in the background, and if they are there, this is just another example of me losing my hearing because I did not hear anything in the background there.
[01:00:58.080 --> 01:01:05.840] Not a correct answer, but I think I've heard airsoft rifles being fired, and there is a similarity there, so it was a good guess.
[01:01:05.840 --> 01:01:15.040] Another listener named Candace Dennison wrote in, and Candace said, Longtime listener, first-time guesser, totally sounds like the recoil of water weapons.
[01:01:15.040 --> 01:01:19.280] You know, that squeaky sound it makes after shooting, and it's sucking in more water.
[01:01:19.280 --> 01:01:25.360] I have extensively used water weapons, and uh, yeah, they make different kinds of noises.
[01:01:25.360 --> 01:01:27.200] I could see one making a similar noise to that.
[01:01:27.200 --> 01:01:29.200] Not correct, but not a horrible guess.
[01:01:29.200 --> 01:01:31.480] Keely Hill writes in, Hi, James.
[01:01:29.760 --> 01:01:36.120] I guess that this week's noisy is someone shooting a five-gallon metal jar with a paintball gun.
[01:01:36.280 --> 01:01:40.120] Now, I've done very similar things to that, and I've heard similar sounds to that.
[01:01:40.120 --> 01:01:42.680] And again, another good guess, but not correct.
[01:01:42.680 --> 01:01:46.520] Alan Champion writes in, Is that a pogo stick?
[01:01:47.160 --> 01:01:51.320] And there's a big spring in a pogo stick, so they could make a weird noise like that.
[01:01:51.320 --> 01:01:52.280] Not correct.
[01:01:52.280 --> 01:01:55.560] I have two people I'd like to mention as the winner for this week.
[01:01:55.720 --> 01:02:06.120] The first person that wrote in, Cameron Cherry, said, Why oh, why did I wait so long to listen to today's episode when it's one of the two times I've been certain of exactly who that noisy is?
[01:02:06.120 --> 01:02:10.760] I don't know why this person is complaining because this is me, because they were the first one to answer.
[01:02:11.240 --> 01:02:13.720] But oh well, I'm sure many people will get this one.
[01:02:13.720 --> 01:02:22.200] But it's the sound you hear when you clap your hands in front of the famous Chitsunitsa temple in the Yucatan Peninsula in Mexico.
[01:02:22.440 --> 01:02:29.080] So, what the local tour guides do is they'll tell you a story that it was specifically engineered to make that sound.
[01:02:29.080 --> 01:02:31.400] It's like the sound of a local bird call and all that.
[01:02:31.400 --> 01:02:34.280] I don't know how verified that is or not, but that is the sound.
[01:02:34.280 --> 01:02:42.920] If you clap your hands, the sound is reflected off of the stepped pyramid temple that they have there, and it makes this sound.
[01:02:43.080 --> 01:02:47.400] I was there actually, and I heard that sound in person, by the way, and it is real.
[01:02:47.400 --> 01:02:54.600] Here it is.
[01:02:54.600 --> 01:03:00.040] So, that's the guy clapping, and that's the second sound, the sharper sound is the echo.
[01:03:00.040 --> 01:03:00.840] Very cool.
[01:03:00.840 --> 01:03:06.360] Another person that wrote in named Dorothy Bullard said she's a longtime listener.
[01:03:06.600 --> 01:03:10.520] This week's noisy sounds like the clap echo effect of the Chitsunitsa pyramid.
[01:03:10.520 --> 01:03:12.120] Yeah, so she was correct as well.
[01:03:12.120 --> 01:03:13.960] I had two correct guesses this week.
[01:03:13.960 --> 01:03:14.960] So, thank you guys for that.
[01:03:14.960 --> 01:03:16.160] That was a lot of fun.
[01:03:14.680 --> 01:03:18.320] That's a really cool place to visit.
[01:03:18.640 --> 01:03:24.960] And if you ever are in that location, I swam in an underground, what would you call this?
[01:03:24.960 --> 01:03:31.360] It was like a giant cavern that had incredible spring water in it that you could pay to go swim in.
[01:03:31.360 --> 01:03:34.800] And I just remember doing that and thinking it was amazing.
[01:03:34.800 --> 01:03:38.080] So just a very cool part of the country to visit.
[01:03:38.080 --> 01:03:40.480] I have a new noisy for you guys this week.
[01:03:40.480 --> 01:03:44.400] This noisy was sent in by a listener named Jonathan Sadler.
[01:03:44.400 --> 01:03:45.840] Take a listen.
[01:04:01.520 --> 01:04:08.240] If you guys think you know what this week's noisy is or you heard something cool, email me at wtn at the skepticsguy.org.
[01:04:08.240 --> 01:04:11.360] So this is your last chance this week as you hear this.
[01:04:11.360 --> 01:04:16.640] If you're listening to it, you know, as of like, this will come out what, on the 10th, Steve?
[01:04:16.640 --> 01:04:18.560] This episode we're recording right now?
[01:04:18.560 --> 01:04:18.960] Yeah.
[01:04:19.440 --> 01:04:19.920] Yeah, 10th.
[01:04:20.160 --> 01:04:21.200] 10th, yes.
[01:04:21.200 --> 01:04:30.560] So if you're listening to this, you know, on the 10th and before the 17th and 18th of August, you could still buy a ticket.
[01:04:30.560 --> 01:04:34.320] Well, actually, just the 18th, 17th, because the 18th is sold out the 17th.
[01:04:34.320 --> 01:04:37.120] We still have tickets available for the extravaganza.
[01:04:37.280 --> 01:04:39.760] That's the 2:30 show, 2:30 p.m.
[01:04:39.920 --> 01:04:42.880] show on Saturday the 17th.
[01:04:43.040 --> 01:04:46.160] If you want information on that, you can go to the skepticsguy.org.
[01:04:46.160 --> 01:04:47.040] We're packing up.
[01:04:47.040 --> 01:04:48.400] We're super excited, guys.
[01:04:48.640 --> 01:04:49.520] We're on our way.
[01:04:49.520 --> 01:04:54.240] Steve and I did our preliminary talk about swag today.
[01:04:54.240 --> 01:05:02.840] Ian and I did all of our pre-tech packing and checklist and just going through everything, getting into extreme details now.
[01:05:02.840 --> 01:05:03.800] Super excited.
[01:04:59.760 --> 01:05:05.720] The SGU's 1000th episode.
[01:05:06.040 --> 01:05:17.720] If you're a patron of the SGU, if you're a paying patron of the SGU, at the $5 level or higher, you will get a free live stream of the 1000th show as it happens.
[01:05:17.720 --> 01:05:19.400] As it happens in real time.
[01:05:19.400 --> 01:05:21.000] That's called a live stream, Carrie.
[01:05:21.080 --> 01:05:21.880] Ever heard of those?
[01:05:21.880 --> 01:05:25.800] Yeah, they're live and they are streams that happen live.
[01:05:25.800 --> 01:05:26.600] Yes.
[01:05:26.600 --> 01:05:28.360] So two quick things, guys.
[01:05:28.680 --> 01:05:31.320] We are coming up on our 1000th show.
[01:05:31.320 --> 01:05:44.120] If you feel that the work that we do here at the SGU and the 20-year legacy that we have behind us, if you feel like that's valuable and you'd like to help us continue doing the work that we do, please consider becoming a patron.
[01:05:44.120 --> 01:05:48.760] You can go to patreon.com forward slash skepticsguide.
[01:05:48.760 --> 01:05:53.720] I would like to thank everyone who's been listening to us, even for a short amount of time.
[01:05:53.720 --> 01:05:57.960] We really do appreciate everyone that puts the time in to listen to the show.
[01:05:57.960 --> 01:06:07.960] And we really do hope that we're having an effect on some of your lives to help you think more clearly and get the resources you need to find out what the truth actually is, because the truth is out there.
[01:06:07.960 --> 01:06:10.120] You just have to know how to look for it.
[01:06:10.120 --> 01:06:16.120] Yeah, and most importantly, you know, we want people to lead loving and fulfilling lives.
[01:06:16.120 --> 01:06:24.520] And it's funny, you know, like this scientific pursuit of critical thinking has had a dramatic effect on my life.
[01:06:24.760 --> 01:06:29.080] It's helped me become a happier person in my life in so many ways.
[01:06:29.080 --> 01:06:30.200] It's hard to describe.
[01:06:30.680 --> 01:06:39.560] It's just an exercise in thinking that actually in my in my experience, has helped me just become a much better version of who I am.
[01:06:39.560 --> 01:06:43.240] And I really appreciate the fact that we've been doing this together, guys.
[01:06:43.240 --> 01:08:26.200] And I really do look forward to the fact that we could have we could have another 10 or 20 years ahead of us of doing it I don't plan on stopping anytime soon we're gonna stop until you we drop right Steve don't stop till we drop all right thank you Jay just one quick feedback before we go on to our interview we do have a great interview with Forrest Valky coming up but first during my news item last week I was talking briefly about the differences between alternating current and direct current you guys remember that and I pointed out that the primary advantage of AC over DC is that it you can step it up to high voltage and it has a much less loss when transmitted over long distances but a lot of what we do with electricity including solar panels and electric car batteries is DC and there have been some at least thinking about I don't know if they're full proposals but exploring the notion of what would happen if we had a DC infrastructure we just went all DC would that integrate better with a world where we have most homes generating power with solar panels and driving EV cars and I pointed out that the ability to transmit electricity long distances using DC has actually improved with modern technology so that advantage of AC is not as stark as it used to be so anyway I just threw that out there as sort of a thought experiment several electrical engineers emailed us to point out that there's another advantage of AC over DC, which may not be mitigated by recent advances in DC technology, or at least not sufficiently.
[01:08:26.200 --> 01:08:32.520] And that is that it's easier to convert the voltage in AC.
[01:08:32.520 --> 01:08:43.240] And that not only is when you're transmitting it and when you're transmitting it to like a residential home or whatever, but also to individual appliances.
[01:08:43.240 --> 01:08:49.240] You could adjust the voltage to what the appliance needs much more easily than with DC current.
[01:08:49.400 --> 01:08:59.160] So one engineer even speculated that even if we were starting from scratch today, we still might decide to go with an AC system for that reason.
[01:08:59.640 --> 01:09:07.480] But yes, you can convert the voltage in DC, just that the equipment to do so is much bigger and I guess more expensive.
[01:09:07.720 --> 01:09:10.280] But I wonder how long that will be the case.
[01:09:10.280 --> 01:09:17.240] You know, if we've made so much advances in that, that that's an assessment of the technology as it is today.
[01:09:17.240 --> 01:09:31.320] I wonder if there were a concerted effort to design and build and advance like a DC infrastructure, if that advantage of AC could also be overcome or at least mitigated to the point that the advantages would be better.
[01:09:31.320 --> 01:09:32.120] I don't know.
[01:09:32.440 --> 01:09:33.640] It's interesting to think about.
[01:09:33.640 --> 01:09:41.640] But those are the two main things, the differences between AC and DC in terms of the infrastructures.
[01:09:41.960 --> 01:09:44.600] And again, it's always more complicated than you think.
[01:09:44.600 --> 01:09:47.240] I'm sure there's also other considerations as well.
[01:09:47.960 --> 01:10:03.560] It was mainly just a way of talking about the differences between the two and the fact that the infrastructure that we're moving towards is we have an AC backbone, but we have DC power being generated by solar panels and DC power being stored in our EVs.
[01:10:03.880 --> 01:10:07.640] And anyway, we'll be interested to see where it all goes.
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[01:12:38.680 --> 01:12:41.720] All right, well, let's go on with our interview.
[01:12:46.520 --> 01:12:49.320] We are joined now by Forrest Valkai.
[01:12:49.320 --> 01:12:51.080] Forrest, welcome to The Skeptics Guide.
[01:12:51.080 --> 01:12:52.280] Thank you so much for having me.
[01:12:52.280 --> 01:12:57.160] So, you are a fellow science communicator and very active on social media.
[01:12:57.160 --> 01:12:59.000] Tell us a little bit about what you do.
[01:12:59.000 --> 01:13:03.560] Yeah, so I'm a biologist by training, got a handful of degrees in biology.
[01:13:03.560 --> 01:13:08.200] I really love it because it's like the pinnacle of all science, in my opinion.
[01:13:08.200 --> 01:13:16.600] You know, they say like everything relates back to chemistry, but you have to have all of the sciences together in order to make biology happen, you know?
[01:13:16.600 --> 01:13:21.480] And it just gets me so geeked up and excited, and I just want to share that with the world.
[01:13:21.480 --> 01:13:27.800] I want to make people fall in love with the universe that they live in and learn to love science and themselves and each other.
[01:13:27.800 --> 01:13:35.800] So, that's long and short what I do: I go out and learn way too much stuff, and then I go and spew it on the internet.
[01:13:35.800 --> 01:13:37.480] Yeah, how long have you been doing that for?
[01:13:37.480 --> 01:13:40.040] I've been doing it on the internet for four years.
[01:13:40.040 --> 01:13:42.960] I was an informal science educator for about 10 years.
[01:13:42.960 --> 01:13:51.520] Schools and summer camps and colleges and libraries and universities and whatever would hire me to come out and do classes, workshops, assemblies, whatever the case may be.
[01:13:51.840 --> 01:13:54.480] I worked for a bunch of education companies doing that for a while.
[01:13:54.480 --> 01:13:54.960] Cool.
[01:13:54.960 --> 01:14:04.560] And then I kind of got to a point where I realized that I could make something better than what the companies were asking me to produce.
[01:14:04.560 --> 01:14:13.920] And so I started doing it on my own and I went back to school and actually earned my way into doing this on my own terms and in my own way.
[01:14:13.920 --> 01:14:30.160] That's where the handle renegade science teacher came from, which is something that I still use on TikTok, is because I live in Oklahoma and I would get all sorts of heat for teaching things like evolution and the age of the earth and climate change and other science things that people had questions about.
[01:14:30.160 --> 01:14:38.320] And so I wanted to do it my way and I wanted to teach in a way that I knew would actually really make a serious impact for people and change their lives.
[01:14:38.320 --> 01:14:40.880] You're like the Jack Bauer of science communication?
[01:14:40.880 --> 01:14:41.440] Sure.
[01:14:41.760 --> 01:14:43.680] I'll have to find out what that is.
[01:14:44.000 --> 01:14:44.720] Is it right?
[01:14:44.720 --> 01:14:44.880] Really?
[01:14:45.040 --> 01:14:45.760] 24, baby.
[01:14:45.840 --> 01:14:46.480] 24.
[01:14:47.520 --> 01:14:48.160] Oh my God.
[01:14:48.160 --> 01:14:50.320] Is that a dated reference already?
[01:14:50.320 --> 01:14:50.800] Yeah.
[01:14:51.360 --> 01:14:54.320] I don't know if it's dad or he's just very dumb.
[01:14:55.280 --> 01:14:56.720] No, it's a little dated.
[01:14:56.720 --> 01:14:57.600] I'm looking it up.
[01:14:57.840 --> 01:14:59.120] I used 24.
[01:14:59.120 --> 01:15:01.840] Jack Bauer, he did things his own way, didn't take anything.
[01:15:01.920 --> 01:15:02.480] He forsaved.
[01:15:03.280 --> 01:15:03.680] Okay.
[01:15:03.680 --> 01:15:05.920] Is it a show about counterterrorism?
[01:15:06.160 --> 01:15:08.160] How are you drawing this line?
[01:15:09.280 --> 01:15:15.200] Because the joke is that Jack Bauer basically always does things his own way and doesn't listen to authority or anything.
[01:15:15.360 --> 01:15:18.640] I'm a loose cannon teacher who's ready to bloom.
[01:15:18.640 --> 01:15:19.200] It was awesome.
[01:15:19.280 --> 01:15:19.840] It was a choice.
[01:15:19.840 --> 01:15:20.240] That's for sure.
[01:15:20.240 --> 01:15:20.640] Oh, yeah.
[01:15:20.640 --> 01:15:23.040] 2001 to 2010.
[01:15:23.360 --> 01:15:24.480] Oh, absolutely.
[01:15:24.480 --> 01:15:26.960] Oh, and then something else in 2014.
[01:15:26.960 --> 01:15:27.200] Yeah.
[01:15:27.280 --> 01:15:27.760] I thought that was a long time ago.
[01:15:27.840 --> 01:15:28.680] Yeah, it's a dated direction.
[01:15:29.160 --> 01:15:29.720] Not that long ago.
[01:15:28.640 --> 01:15:32.760] Steve, 2001 is 23 years ago.
[01:15:29.120 --> 01:15:34.760] Not that long ago.
[01:15:29.520 --> 01:15:36.600] 2014 is only 10 years ago.
[01:15:37.880 --> 01:15:38.440] A decade.
[01:15:39.240 --> 01:15:40.760] This millennium.
[01:15:42.040 --> 01:15:45.240] Napster was still a thing in 2001.
[01:15:45.560 --> 01:15:49.320] Have you guys seen those t-shirts that say, like, be patient with me?
[01:15:49.320 --> 01:15:51.320] I'm from the 1900s.
[01:15:51.320 --> 01:15:51.720] Yeah.
[01:15:52.360 --> 01:15:57.160] You want to listen to some turn-of-the-century music like Green Day?
[01:15:57.880 --> 01:16:00.520] I was just at the Green Day show two nights ago.
[01:16:00.520 --> 01:16:01.800] Oh, you mentioned that.
[01:16:01.800 --> 01:16:03.080] They're still touring?
[01:16:03.960 --> 01:16:05.640] 55,000 sold out.
[01:16:05.640 --> 01:16:05.800] Yep.
[01:16:05.960 --> 01:16:06.360] New York.
[01:16:06.520 --> 01:16:07.400] I'm mad jealous.
[01:16:07.400 --> 01:16:08.520] It was awesome.
[01:16:08.520 --> 01:16:13.080] So, Forrest, tell us a little bit about your science communication style.
[01:16:13.080 --> 01:16:15.880] What is your philosophy of communicating?
[01:16:15.880 --> 01:16:28.440] So when we're talking about pedagogy, I really stick to, and I'm going to grossly oversimplify these, kind of like a positivism, progressivism, and critical approaches.
[01:16:28.440 --> 01:16:33.960] So like positivism being just generally the idea that there are facts to be known.
[01:16:33.960 --> 01:16:42.200] There is an objective universe out there, and like there's some really, really, really cool stuff that you can go grab that isn't really so much open to interpretation.
[01:16:42.200 --> 01:16:48.680] We can talk about what you do with the facts, but we can't talk about whether or not you agree with certain facts.
[01:16:48.840 --> 01:16:59.640] Progressivism being more like question-based learning, audience-focused learning, like helping people to be brought into the conversation rather than talking at them.
[01:16:59.640 --> 01:17:17.200] And then that leads to critical theory, which is generally just the idea that a person's social life, economic life, political life, gendered life, religious life, whatever, like all different parts of a person are united and you can't separate them from their educational life.
[01:17:17.360 --> 01:17:32.480] And so, trying to meet people where they are and speak to them in ways that matter, about things that matter, showing them why learning about cell theory is actually really important for literally every person and how it has unique applications for you and your life right now.
[01:17:32.480 --> 01:17:35.520] Actually, today, it's not just something you read in a book.
[01:17:35.520 --> 01:17:53.760] And also, with those approaches combined, the main thing that I'm trying to do is show people that science isn't some secret tome of knowledge on a high shelf that's only accessible to old white dudes with big white beards and long white coats, and that they have to earn their right to be able to access this.
[01:17:54.160 --> 01:18:00.240] Science is all around you all the time, right in front of you, and it's always going to be there, it always has been there.
[01:18:00.240 --> 01:18:05.760] And all you have to do is learn how to read the writing on the world that you live in.
[01:18:05.760 --> 01:18:12.800] And so, trying to make it personal and make it real and make it accessible and make it fun is really my main goal.
[01:18:12.800 --> 01:18:20.400] And I do that by being a generally weird person and just geeking out about things that get me out of bed in the world.
[01:18:20.640 --> 01:18:22.800] You've been asked that question before, haven't you?
[01:18:22.800 --> 01:18:24.960] Like, what is my teaching style all about?
[01:18:25.280 --> 01:18:25.840] Yeah.
[01:18:25.840 --> 01:18:30.960] Well, my first degree was in education, so I got a little bit prepared for it, but not that much.
[01:18:31.600 --> 01:18:36.960] Yeah, I hear a little bit of education speak in there in your answer.
[01:18:37.280 --> 01:18:47.760] So, I do notice on your like your description of your approach is that you include skepticism in your science literacy.
[01:18:47.760 --> 01:18:50.480] So, tell us about that a little bit.
[01:18:50.720 --> 01:18:52.000] Why do you think that's important?
[01:18:52.000 --> 01:18:52.920] It's important.
[01:18:53.000 --> 01:18:53.920] Assuming it is.
[01:18:54.120 --> 01:18:57.520] No, yeah, funny enough, it's quite important.
[01:18:57.680 --> 01:19:16.520] And the main reason is because you can, it takes two seconds to get onto TikTok and look up body hacks or health secrets that they don't want you to know and see some person talking about how when you eat regular salt, it actually takes the nutrients away from your body.
[01:19:16.520 --> 01:19:25.080] And that's why you need to eat only my specific brand of Himalayan whatever whale salt thing that I make in my kitchen.
[01:19:26.440 --> 01:19:27.320] Mountain whales.
[01:19:27.320 --> 01:19:29.320] Yes, those mountain whales.
[01:19:29.320 --> 01:19:30.120] You know them.
[01:19:30.120 --> 01:19:33.720] And those types of things are so prevalent.
[01:19:33.720 --> 01:19:36.440] And there's so much misinformation out there.
[01:19:36.440 --> 01:19:47.800] And especially when you are either completely at the very beginning of your educational journey or if you have never gotten the opportunity to embark on one.
[01:19:48.360 --> 01:20:10.280] If you stopped learning science out of high school or if you are just starting to get interested in science, it's really, really easy for somebody to throw some big words around or have a doctor in front of their name and for you to believe everything they say and to not know how to critically think about things that are above your pay grade.
[01:20:10.280 --> 01:20:11.960] And so you see this a lot.
[01:20:12.680 --> 01:20:28.680] I remember one time, I think it was last year, there was this dude on TikTok who was claiming to be a health expert who was talking about how no one should take antibiotics because antibiotics kill all cells in your body.
[01:20:28.680 --> 01:20:33.800] And when you take antibiotics, you're more sick afterwards than when you started taking them.
[01:20:33.800 --> 01:20:36.760] And his proof was that that's where fevers and stuff come from.
[01:20:36.760 --> 01:20:38.840] And like, those are all these symptoms of illness.
[01:20:38.840 --> 01:20:42.840] And also, viruses are just your own cells that are being purged from your body.
[01:20:42.840 --> 01:20:49.440] And that's why we have flu season, because all humans are naturally evolutionarily synced up to purge our cells at a certain time of month.
[01:20:49.440 --> 01:20:50.400] There is no viruses.
[01:20:44.920 --> 01:20:51.680] It's just your own cells at your body.
[01:20:51.920 --> 01:20:53.680] Just all this insane stuff.
[01:20:53.680 --> 01:21:01.760] And when you look through his comment sections, it's all these people who are like, I have a chronic illness and I'm not getting the answers I want from my doctor.
[01:21:01.760 --> 01:21:06.560] And you're the first person who's telling me these things that sound so revolutionary.
[01:21:06.560 --> 01:21:07.680] Please help me.
[01:21:07.680 --> 01:21:09.440] How do I treat my cancer?
[01:21:09.440 --> 01:21:11.600] How do I treat my fibromyalgia?
[01:21:11.600 --> 01:21:14.000] How do I treat my atherosclerosis?
[01:21:14.000 --> 01:21:15.360] How do I teach whatever?
[01:21:15.920 --> 01:21:21.200] Because they're frustrated and disillusioned with the medical industrial complex.
[01:21:21.200 --> 01:21:27.360] And now you have this guy speaking with such confidence in a bunch of big words that they don't understand, and they're buying into it.
[01:21:27.360 --> 01:21:33.040] And so not being skeptical, and even it's not just to not know everything about biology.
[01:21:33.040 --> 01:21:35.920] It's to not be skeptical is a public health risk.
[01:21:35.920 --> 01:21:39.200] It puts you and the people around you in harm's way.
[01:21:39.520 --> 01:21:53.920] If I can ramble a little bit further, it's what you see with COVID misinformation, vaccine misinformation, mask misinformation, people talking about masks building up CO2 and vaccines have mRNA and you can't, you don't want mRNA in your body, you know?
[01:21:53.920 --> 01:22:03.680] And it's like, dude, if you don't have to know the science, if you knew how to ask good questions, you would be able to tear this stuff apart.
[01:22:03.680 --> 01:22:15.840] And so, yeah, skepticism is really important to me because it's a lot easier to teach somebody to just ask somebody how they know what they know than it is to teach them about, you know, what an endoplasmic reticulum does.
[01:22:15.840 --> 01:22:17.120] Yeah, all of science.
[01:22:17.600 --> 01:22:18.160] Exactly.
[01:22:18.160 --> 01:22:18.560] Yeah.
[01:22:18.880 --> 01:22:29.640] Yeah, I think we learned that lesson the hard way over the last 30, 40 years that the knowledge deficit approach of just giving people information doesn't work for most things.
[01:22:27.920 --> 01:22:32.440] It works for some things, but it doesn't work for most things.
[01:22:29.440 --> 01:22:35.640] And you have to, it has to be in the context of critical thinking.
[01:22:35.960 --> 01:22:38.120] Otherwise, you know, as you say.
[01:22:38.120 --> 01:22:46.760] And what's interesting is that if you people increase their science knowledge, it doesn't decrease their belief in nonsense or pseudoscience until you...
[01:22:46.760 --> 01:22:47.800] It makes them more confident.
[01:22:47.800 --> 01:22:53.320] Yeah, it just makes them more confident in their wrong beliefs until they get to like a graduate level.
[01:22:53.320 --> 01:23:00.360] Like unless you have a PhD in science, it doesn't help you not believe in nonsense, which is really interesting.
[01:23:00.360 --> 01:23:01.000] Me sitting there.
[01:23:01.240 --> 01:23:02.040] Evaluating evidence.
[01:23:02.600 --> 01:23:03.880] Nobody look at me.
[01:23:05.480 --> 01:23:08.760] Evaluating evidence, that's a critical piece right there.
[01:23:08.760 --> 01:23:09.320] Yeah.
[01:23:09.640 --> 01:23:11.160] And where do you learn that at right?
[01:23:11.160 --> 01:23:14.840] And how many students are being taught that in their undergraduate classes?
[01:23:14.840 --> 01:23:15.240] Absolutely.
[01:23:15.480 --> 01:23:16.280] Hardly any.
[01:23:16.600 --> 01:23:17.800] It was a big thing for me.
[01:23:17.800 --> 01:23:25.480] And I remember that at the end of my undergraduate career, I took this class in community and invasion ecology.
[01:23:25.480 --> 01:23:27.880] And I went in there expecting to do the same thing that I always done.
[01:23:27.880 --> 01:23:31.080] You read the book, you take the test, you read the book again, you take the test again.
[01:23:31.080 --> 01:23:37.640] And the professor handed out some papers, some scientific papers, and said, okay, you know, read these and come back to me next week.
[01:23:37.640 --> 01:23:38.440] We're going to talk about them.
[01:23:38.440 --> 01:23:39.000] No problem.
[01:23:39.000 --> 01:23:39.960] I came back next week.
[01:23:39.960 --> 01:23:44.440] I gave a thorough report over what the papers said and what they were getting at and what they were talking about.
[01:23:44.440 --> 01:23:46.040] And he's like, yeah, that's awesome.
[01:23:46.280 --> 01:23:47.400] Were they right?
[01:23:47.720 --> 01:23:49.080] And I was just taken aback.
[01:23:49.080 --> 01:23:50.200] I was like, what are you talking about?
[01:23:50.200 --> 01:23:50.600] Are they right?
[01:23:50.600 --> 01:23:51.960] Well, it was published in Nature.
[01:23:51.960 --> 01:23:52.840] Of course it was right.
[01:23:52.840 --> 01:23:56.840] And it's like, yeah, but like, look at the figure on like page three.
[01:23:56.840 --> 01:24:00.040] They measure species in like decimals.
[01:24:00.040 --> 01:24:02.040] How do you have like 0.7 of a species?
[01:24:02.040 --> 01:24:03.480] And I'm like, flip.
[01:24:03.480 --> 01:24:05.480] I never asked that question.
[01:24:05.480 --> 01:24:08.040] And like, it shook me up.
[01:24:08.040 --> 01:24:24.880] And from that day on, that's one of the things that made me want to do what I do is because I realized like, how many times have I and my friends and people around me been caught in that trap of like, well, this guy says it and he knows stuff and this paper says it and it's a paper.
[01:24:24.880 --> 01:24:25.840] And like, you know what I mean?
[01:24:25.840 --> 01:24:31.360] And not knowing how to really ask questions and think in a broader sense.
[01:24:31.360 --> 01:24:34.480] And especially in biology, that's the name of the game.
[01:24:34.480 --> 01:24:41.440] You know, chemistry and physics, you guys are lucky because you can just, you know, you put the numbers in the formula and it does the thing and you know what it is.
[01:24:41.440 --> 01:24:46.400] Biology, if you think you've got life figured out, you look under the next rock, you'll be proven wrong.
[01:24:46.400 --> 01:25:05.440] And so like, that's that, it's so important in my field, especially to be able to really think in a big picture way and critically analyze what you think you know and to be willing to kind of tear apart any paradigm you have because I promise you, nature has weirder things in mind than you do.
[01:25:05.600 --> 01:25:08.400] So what are some of the favorite topics that you've covered?
[01:25:08.400 --> 01:25:11.200] Honestly, I love evolution.
[01:25:11.200 --> 01:25:16.320] I specialize in evolutionary biology and organismic biology when I was in my undergrad.
[01:25:16.320 --> 01:25:22.400] Since then, I went on to get to focus in grad school on bioanthropology and biomedical science.
[01:25:22.400 --> 01:25:45.440] And so learning about evolution and how humans play into this whole weird mess that we find ourselves in, those are some of my favorite things now to teach as well, because I feel like they're things that really shake up people's worldview and help knock them down off of their own pedestal and help them to dismantle the heuristics that they might not even realize they've been relying on as heavily as they are.
[01:25:45.440 --> 01:25:55.760] I also find that a lot of the times I've been turning science education into advocacy for marginalized groups or for just social progress in general.
[01:25:55.760 --> 01:26:01.240] The beginning of my content creation career was talking about race.
[01:25:59.520 --> 01:26:05.080] It was in 2020, right in the middle of the Black Lives Matter protests.
[01:26:05.320 --> 01:26:26.520] And my very first video was talking about where human skin coloration comes from in an evolutionary sense, how humans evolved, where we got different racial characteristics, and how if you know a racist person today, they're upset about the effects of 100,000-year-old sunlight, and they need to get over it because it's just weird.
[01:26:26.520 --> 01:26:35.400] And how, like, as the point of the message was that, like, as a biologist, when I say that we are all a family, I really mean that.
[01:26:35.400 --> 01:26:37.480] That's not just a platitude.
[01:26:37.480 --> 01:26:40.840] I mean that you are seriously related to everybody around you.
[01:26:40.840 --> 01:26:44.120] And that message really resonated with a lot of people.
[01:26:44.760 --> 01:26:51.000] I'm afraid you're asking for too much because it is remarkable when you think about that.
[01:26:51.000 --> 01:26:55.720] Like, from a scientific perspective, we are so unbelievably alike.
[01:26:55.720 --> 01:26:56.280] Yeah.
[01:26:56.280 --> 01:27:01.000] But, you know, we also seem to be hardwired to find the differences with each other.
[01:27:01.000 --> 01:27:01.480] Oh, yeah.
[01:27:01.480 --> 01:27:04.840] No, we are absurdly tribalistic creatures.
[01:27:04.840 --> 01:27:06.600] There was this really cool thing.
[01:27:06.600 --> 01:27:22.360] I think it was Tyfell back in the 1970s as a social psychologist, and he did those group, what do you call it, the experiments about intergroup discrimination, where he would separate people by totally arbitrary means into different groups.
[01:27:22.360 --> 01:27:27.800] Like one of the biggest, I think the most famous one was like he would show a bunch of dots on the screen and you'd ask him how many dots are there.
[01:27:27.800 --> 01:27:29.480] And it was like a split-second decision.
[01:27:29.640 --> 01:27:33.400] And then he'd say, okay, well, you overestimated the dots and you underestimated the dots.
[01:27:33.400 --> 01:27:35.160] And so you go this way and you go that way.
[01:27:35.160 --> 01:27:37.080] And in actuality, it was completely random.
[01:27:37.080 --> 01:27:39.080] There was really genuinely no criteria.
[01:27:39.080 --> 01:27:41.480] He was lying about whatever he's putting them up on.
[01:27:41.480 --> 01:27:43.000] And then they would play games.
[01:27:43.240 --> 01:27:49.760] And people from group A would go out of their way to screw over people from group B within minutes.
[01:27:50.000 --> 01:27:55.600] And when you ask them why, they'd just say, Well, they're gonna do it to me, you know, if I don't do it to them first.
[01:27:55.600 --> 01:28:11.760] And Tyfell himself, he wrote in these papers, he's like, Discriminatory, hateful, prejudice behaviors were like frighteningly easy to trigger in these people who knew that the separation was completely arbitrary and meant nothing.
[01:28:11.760 --> 01:28:14.640] And they just had this insane tribalism about them.
[01:28:14.640 --> 01:28:27.360] But the cool thing is, further context, there was another really cool study I remember where they took people from Australia and people from China, and they put them in an MRI machine and they like poked them in the face.
[01:28:27.360 --> 01:28:29.760] And then they showed them videos of other people being poked in the face.
[01:28:29.760 --> 01:28:36.400] And they're measuring not the somatosensory cortex, I think it was the anterior cingulate gyrus, if I remember right.
[01:28:36.400 --> 01:28:42.160] It was some part of the brain that isn't actually doing the feeling, but is like processing the emotion of feeling pain.
[01:28:42.880 --> 01:28:45.600] If only we had somebody here who studied Nero.
[01:28:45.920 --> 01:29:01.120] And I remember that they like across racial lines, they had this difference where like somebody of their own race, they had a more emotional reaction to seeing somebody else being hurt as if it was them being hurt.
[01:29:01.120 --> 01:29:03.600] But then they did it with exchange students.
[01:29:03.600 --> 01:29:08.400] And they had, you know, these Chinese people living in Australia and Australian people living in China.
[01:29:08.400 --> 01:29:11.200] And all of a sudden, that difference wasn't there anymore.
[01:29:11.200 --> 01:29:25.920] And it just showed that the more that they spent time around each other, the more that they were around other people of other races, cultures, backgrounds, religions, whatever, the more they started to see those people as people and identify them as a family.
[01:29:25.920 --> 01:29:28.720] And so, yeah, we are absurdly tribalistic creatures.
[01:29:28.720 --> 01:29:34.600] And it's very, very easy for us to draw these lines and say, no, no, no, no, no, this is us and this is them.
[01:29:35.160 --> 01:29:38.040] But it's also really easy to change those lines.
[01:29:38.040 --> 01:29:49.400] And the more you surround yourself with diversity of people and opinions and races and colors and classes and creeds and all sorts of things, the bigger your family becomes.
[01:29:49.400 --> 01:29:51.960] And the more those lines start to not matter to you.
[01:29:51.960 --> 01:29:59.240] And that's one of those big, powerful lessons I'm talking about, where it kind of knocks down the paradigm that people have of this us versus them mentality.
[01:29:59.400 --> 01:30:03.240] If the us is all of humanity, then you're going to behave that way.
[01:30:03.240 --> 01:30:04.600] And I think that's really important.
[01:30:04.600 --> 01:30:06.360] I forgot how we got here.
[01:30:07.000 --> 01:30:07.240] Yeah.
[01:30:07.720 --> 01:30:08.120] That's right.
[01:30:08.360 --> 01:30:08.920] Yeah, I agree.
[01:30:08.920 --> 01:30:17.240] Like that we draw lines is a human trait, you know, that we inherit, but how we draw the lines is totally learned.
[01:30:17.240 --> 01:30:17.720] Yeah.
[01:30:17.720 --> 01:30:24.120] And you can absolutely just by exposure essentially make all of humanity is my family, basically.
[01:30:25.080 --> 01:30:32.280] Yeah, rather than drawing it progressively narrow and smaller groups and othering everybody outside of our small group.
[01:30:32.280 --> 01:30:36.520] And also, yeah, there's that research is like decades old now, showing that over and over again.
[01:30:36.520 --> 01:30:38.200] Yeah, it's very, very consistent.
[01:30:38.200 --> 01:30:46.440] But also, when people are afraid and when they feel under stress, that tribalistic instinct is on steroids, right?
[01:30:46.440 --> 01:30:48.040] It just gets ramped up.
[01:30:48.040 --> 01:30:48.520] Yeah.
[01:30:48.840 --> 01:30:55.560] That's why fascism works so well because you can say those people are the problem, then people will believe you, especially the more scared they are.
[01:30:55.560 --> 01:30:57.400] It works the same in every country.
[01:30:57.400 --> 01:30:57.720] Exactly.
[01:30:57.800 --> 01:31:08.440] And that actually reminds me the way that we got here, you're talking about like activism and whatnot, is that I started talking about, you know, race and then immediately moved over to LGBT people, and it was the exact same thing.
[01:31:08.440 --> 01:31:15.680] It's a lot of people who don't understand and are very afraid of things that they don't understand and are willing to judge people based on criteria that they don't understand about rumors that they don't understand.
[01:31:17.200 --> 01:31:28.240] And it turns out science can come in and save the day and can stick up for these people and show that they're not crazy and they're not weird and they're not perverted, they're just part of the natural variation of our species.
[01:31:28.240 --> 01:31:37.760] And so, those kind of messages have been really, really, really powerful for my audience and really fulfilling for me to be able to learn and teach.
[01:31:37.760 --> 01:31:40.640] I hope that answers the question you asked because I do not remember what the question is.
[01:31:41.520 --> 01:31:42.240] Absolutely.
[01:31:42.240 --> 01:31:50.080] I mean, I agree, like with the LGBT thing, it's a good example of how it does help, like giving people information.
[01:31:50.080 --> 01:31:57.440] I think it helps, especially for people who are just genuinely confused, but it's not a panacea, you know.
[01:31:58.480 --> 01:32:08.800] And we've just today on TikTok, you know, had an interaction with our, you know, our audience where individuals were like, well, if they have an XY chromosome, they're a man.
[01:32:08.800 --> 01:32:09.280] That's it.
[01:32:09.280 --> 01:32:11.760] That's the ending of the discussion.
[01:32:11.760 --> 01:32:13.280] I'm like, what is easy as that?
[01:32:13.440 --> 01:32:17.600] What about this XY person who has a vagina?
[01:32:17.600 --> 01:32:20.560] And they just, they just said, I disagree with you.
[01:32:21.600 --> 01:32:22.160] What are you talking about?
[01:32:22.560 --> 01:32:24.080] I'm just giving you a fact.
[01:32:24.080 --> 01:32:26.800] And it didn't penetrate.
[01:32:26.800 --> 01:32:31.600] Yeah, no, I've had that discussion where someone says, you know, it's only, you know, XY equals man all the time.
[01:32:31.600 --> 01:32:35.360] And it's like, okay, here's a case study on a woman with Sawyer syndrome.
[01:32:35.360 --> 01:32:40.960] So she has XY allosomes and has given birth to children.
[01:32:40.960 --> 01:32:56.080] So either you need to agree with me that not all XY people are men or even male, or you need to agree with me that pregnancy is not exclusive to women because sex and gender are different things.
[01:32:56.080 --> 01:32:57.920] So, which one do you agree with me on?
[01:32:57.920 --> 01:32:59.600] Or do you just not agree with reality?
[01:32:59.600 --> 01:32:59.920] You know what I mean?
[01:33:00.680 --> 01:33:02.200] Yeah, my head explodes.
[01:33:02.520 --> 01:33:03.400] That's the biggest thing.
[01:33:03.880 --> 01:33:16.280] I feel like you know, talking about trans and intersex people, it's the new, like, it's exactly how it was with climate change when I was in high school, where it just becomes increasingly politicized.
[01:33:16.280 --> 01:33:22.120] And then, no matter what the science says, you're going to have people who just say, okay, well, that's new science.
[01:33:22.120 --> 01:33:23.400] And that's not right.
[01:33:23.400 --> 01:33:33.400] I've literally, the newest versions of Campbell's biology state that sex and gender are different, and neither one of them is a binary.
[01:33:33.400 --> 01:33:38.360] Because we just have learned new stuff about this science in the past few decades.
[01:33:38.360 --> 01:33:46.440] And I've had people challenge me on that and say, Yeah, but when those are the new textbooks, you need to look at the old textbooks because they were the right one.
[01:33:46.600 --> 01:33:50.520] And it's like, when would you ever do that at any other time?
[01:33:50.520 --> 01:33:54.280] If you take science seriously, give me one other time when you're like, no, no, no, no, no.
[01:33:54.440 --> 01:33:57.160] We were right before we knew more things.
[01:33:57.160 --> 01:33:58.600] Back when we were ignorant.
[01:33:58.600 --> 01:34:00.200] That's when we had it right.
[01:34:00.200 --> 01:34:01.480] Back when alchemy was a thing.
[01:34:01.480 --> 01:34:02.440] Let's get back there.
[01:34:02.680 --> 01:34:04.280] Yes, it's the old science.
[01:34:04.280 --> 01:34:05.880] Go back to the old science.
[01:34:06.520 --> 01:34:07.640] Yes, I like the old science.
[01:34:07.720 --> 01:34:10.520] Yeah, but again, this is where the critical thinking comes in because you tell them that.
[01:34:11.000 --> 01:34:14.200] Well, the new books are infected with woke ideology.
[01:34:14.200 --> 01:34:14.680] Yeah.
[01:34:15.480 --> 01:34:16.280] I love this one.
[01:34:16.280 --> 01:34:18.280] Well, all doctors don't agree on that.
[01:34:18.280 --> 01:34:21.560] Well, yeah, you can always find somebody who doesn't agree.
[01:34:21.560 --> 01:34:27.880] I mean, you know, and the concept of, you know, there's a consensus to them, the word consensus is hostile.
[01:34:27.880 --> 01:34:28.280] Yeah.
[01:34:28.600 --> 01:34:28.920] Yeah.
[01:34:29.080 --> 01:34:29.560] Well, yeah.
[01:34:29.560 --> 01:34:33.160] And that's, it's the one out of 10 dentist that doesn't recommend Crest.
[01:34:33.240 --> 01:34:36.920] He's the real guy that you need to be listening to, not sponsored by Crest.
[01:34:37.560 --> 01:34:54.000] But like, yeah, that's, it's, it is deeply frustrating when people don't really know how this stuff works and how that's, you know, when you first asked about why critical thinking is so important, I mentioned people think that science is just this book that we all just go to and check.
[01:34:54.000 --> 01:34:55.920] And if it's not in the book, it's not real.
[01:34:55.920 --> 01:34:58.080] And that's just not how it works.
[01:34:58.080 --> 01:35:04.160] And I feel like, especially during COVID, people saw science at work.
[01:35:04.160 --> 01:35:10.160] People saw us like arguing and debating and things changed and we learned new stuff and we changed the guidelines.
[01:35:10.160 --> 01:35:12.240] And it was a very scary situation.
[01:35:12.240 --> 01:35:15.280] And people were looking for guidance and they got it.
[01:35:15.280 --> 01:35:20.800] And then as we learned new stuff, we came out and said, hey, actually, this is now better guidance.
[01:35:20.800 --> 01:35:32.560] And I don't think, I think the majority, that's not fair to say, I think a huge amount of Americans were really taken aback because they thought that science was just the book that we went and checked.
[01:35:32.720 --> 01:35:35.040] Oh, it says in here that if you get COVID, you do this.
[01:35:35.040 --> 01:35:41.280] And then they had to see us learning about something and trying to help people at the same time.
[01:35:41.280 --> 01:35:44.400] And they don't think that it's possible to walk and chew gum.
[01:35:44.400 --> 01:35:56.160] And it's just, I think that really is disillusioning a lot of people to what science is capable of because they don't understand that it is a messy and long and difficult and hard process.
[01:35:56.160 --> 01:35:57.440] Yep, absolutely.
[01:35:57.440 --> 01:35:59.280] Where can people find you?
[01:35:59.280 --> 01:36:00.960] You can find me on them internets.
[01:36:01.200 --> 01:36:04.800] Look me up on YouTube at just look for my name, Forrest Valkyrie.
[01:36:04.800 --> 01:36:06.880] You can find me on TikTok as well, on Instagram.
[01:36:06.880 --> 01:36:09.200] Sometimes I remember that I have a Threads account too.
[01:36:09.200 --> 01:36:10.960] All the cool people are on Threads.
[01:36:10.960 --> 01:36:14.720] And just, you can look for my name or just go to Valkylabs.com, find me there.
[01:36:15.040 --> 01:36:17.520] Renegade Science Teacher is my handle on most things.
[01:36:17.520 --> 01:36:18.640] I'm all over the place.
[01:36:18.640 --> 01:36:22.800] If you like science, skepticism, and general weirdness, you will like my channels.
[01:36:22.800 --> 01:36:24.160] Well, thank you so much for joining us.
[01:36:24.160 --> 01:36:24.960] It's been really fun.
[01:36:24.960 --> 01:36:26.240] I really appreciate you having me.
[01:36:26.240 --> 01:36:27.280] Thanks, Forrest.
[01:36:27.280 --> 01:36:28.560] See you in October.
[01:36:28.560 --> 01:36:29.640] Bye.
[01:36:29.200 --> 01:36:36.360] It's time for science or fiction.
[01:36:41.400 --> 01:36:50.040] Each week I come up with three science news items or facts, two real and one fake, and then I challenge my panel of skeptics to tell me which one is the fake.
[01:36:50.040 --> 01:36:52.680] We kind of have a loose theme this week.
[01:36:52.680 --> 01:36:55.000] The theme is the future.
[01:36:55.000 --> 01:36:58.200] Three news items, what they have to do with future technology.
[01:36:58.200 --> 01:36:58.680] Okay.
[01:36:58.680 --> 01:36:59.400] All right?
[01:37:01.640 --> 01:37:03.880] I didn't care how many was that two or three groans?
[01:37:03.880 --> 01:37:04.360] I couldn't.
[01:37:04.600 --> 01:37:05.000] Yeah.
[01:37:06.200 --> 01:37:08.200] Okay, you always groan, but then you do fine.
[01:37:08.200 --> 01:37:08.840] So just chill.
[01:37:11.400 --> 01:37:11.880] Here we go.
[01:37:12.200 --> 01:37:13.720] The stamina it takes, the stamina.
[01:37:14.200 --> 01:37:26.920] Item number one: a new study finds that if the world's highways were covered with roofs of solar panels, they could generate more than 60% of the world's electricity and reduce traffic deaths by 10.8%.
[01:37:27.240 --> 01:37:37.480] Item number two: engineers have developed a method for heating the plasma inside a tokamak fusion reactor for about one-tenth of the energy of current methods.
[01:37:37.480 --> 01:37:46.680] And item number three, scientists outline a new method for warming the surface of Mars that is 5,000 times more efficient than existing proposals.
[01:37:47.000 --> 01:37:48.200] Jay, go first.
[01:37:48.200 --> 01:37:55.800] If the world's highways were covered with roofs of solar panels, they could generate more than 60% of the world's electricity.
[01:37:55.800 --> 01:37:59.560] And then the other point was that it would reduce traffic deaths by 10.8%.
[01:37:59.560 --> 01:38:05.400] Well, first of all, how the hell would they be able to get that specific with the reduction in traffic deaths?
[01:38:05.400 --> 01:38:08.120] That's one thing that makes me think this one's fake.
[01:38:08.120 --> 01:38:20.240] You know, you know, the thing is, the amount of money it would cost to put solar panels above existing highways, and then it would be a problem if they wanted to widen the highway and everything.
[01:38:20.400 --> 01:38:22.640] The whole premise seems to be broken to me.
[01:38:22.640 --> 01:38:25.440] I mean, we debunked the crap out of that a decade ago.
[01:38:25.440 --> 01:38:28.720] So, but that's that, but that's irrelevant compared to what's stated there, right?
[01:38:28.720 --> 01:38:29.760] It's all irrelevant.
[01:38:29.760 --> 01:38:30.000] I know.
[01:38:30.000 --> 01:38:33.520] I mean, just think the practicality isn't there, but okay, so someone did a test.
[01:38:33.520 --> 01:38:35.040] Yeah, what's the surface area?
[01:38:35.040 --> 01:38:35.760] Blah, blah, blah.
[01:38:35.760 --> 01:38:40.320] That maybe they're not caring about any of the legitimate logistics and costs and all that.
[01:38:40.320 --> 01:38:45.760] Now, to clarify, because I'm not sure you guys are getting this, this is not covering the roads with solar panels.
[01:38:45.760 --> 01:38:50.160] This is putting, like, building a roof over the road.
[01:38:50.160 --> 01:38:50.800] Yeah.
[01:38:50.800 --> 01:38:51.200] Yeah.
[01:38:51.360 --> 01:38:53.200] I think that's a typo.
[01:38:53.200 --> 01:38:53.840] Oh.
[01:38:54.160 --> 01:38:55.600] I read it that way, Steve.
[01:38:55.680 --> 01:38:59.760] I think it's still, so I might as well just clarify it up front.
[01:39:00.400 --> 01:39:18.160] I mean, you know, all this is telling us is that the, you know, the surface area that they would have available to them and some guesstimate on how that would somehow lower traffic incidence and lower traffic deaths because maybe of sun glare and stuff like that.
[01:39:18.160 --> 01:39:20.000] Okay, you know, that could be science.
[01:39:20.000 --> 01:39:28.400] Second one is the engineers have developed a method for heating the plasma inside a tokamak fusion reactor for about one-tenth the energy.
[01:39:28.400 --> 01:39:30.400] Wow, that is awesome.
[01:39:30.400 --> 01:39:32.160] God, I hope that's true.
[01:39:32.160 --> 01:39:41.280] That's, you know, this is one of those incremental steps that we've been waiting for that just keeps making, you know, the viability of this project, you know, more legit.
[01:39:41.440 --> 01:39:44.560] I don't have any reason to think that that one is off.
[01:39:44.560 --> 01:39:51.760] And the last one here, scientists outline a new method for warming the surface of Mars that is 5,000 times more efficient than existing.
[01:39:52.000 --> 01:39:52.640] Wow.
[01:39:52.960 --> 01:39:54.560] You know, that one seems legit, too.
[01:39:54.560 --> 01:39:59.680] Like, you know, yeah, there could be some novel way that they came up with to do that.
[01:39:59.680 --> 01:40:02.600] So, you know, the first one is just sucks.
[01:39:59.840 --> 01:40:05.960] And any way I interpret it, I don't like anything that they're saying in the first one.
[01:40:06.120 --> 01:40:08.280] It just seems like a useless study.
[01:40:08.280 --> 01:40:12.520] You know, the other two, like, are saying something very significant.
[01:40:12.520 --> 01:40:13.800] But, you know, I don't know.
[01:40:13.800 --> 01:40:16.600] I'm just going to take the first one as the fiction because I just don't like it.
[01:40:16.600 --> 01:40:17.560] Okay, Evan.
[01:40:17.560 --> 01:40:24.440] The study finds that you cover the highways with roofs and solar panels and reduce traffic deaths.
[01:40:25.320 --> 01:40:32.920] So it's more like a thought experiment rather than, I think, a practical suggestion of any kind of thing.
[01:40:33.240 --> 01:40:41.400] And therefore, on a paper and pencil kind of way, I have a feeling this one's going to turn out to be right.
[01:40:41.400 --> 01:40:45.480] How exactly it reduces traffic deaths, though?
[01:40:46.600 --> 01:40:47.480] How's that?
[01:40:47.720 --> 01:40:51.640] Is it because of like it blocks the sun from sun glare?
[01:40:51.640 --> 01:40:53.240] Is that the effect of like the roof?
[01:40:53.240 --> 01:40:57.000] And you don't, I don't, so I don't know how they reach that.
[01:40:57.000 --> 01:41:01.880] But again, it seems just like mathematical put to this item.
[01:41:01.880 --> 01:41:03.240] And therefore, that's the result.
[01:41:03.240 --> 01:41:04.760] So I'll say that one's science.
[01:41:04.760 --> 01:41:10.520] And the second one about heating the plasma inside a tokamak fusion reactor.
[01:41:10.520 --> 01:41:13.400] One-tenth the energy of current methods.
[01:41:13.400 --> 01:41:14.760] Well, I don't.
[01:41:15.000 --> 01:41:19.960] The only thing that strikes me a little weird about this one is the one-tenth of the current energy method.
[01:41:22.280 --> 01:41:25.080] That's quite a significant change.
[01:41:25.080 --> 01:41:27.560] I don't know if it'd be that much, right?
[01:41:27.560 --> 01:41:31.240] To get to one-tenth, that's a huge jump in efficiency.
[01:41:31.240 --> 01:41:31.560] Boy.
[01:41:31.720 --> 01:41:33.320] That's almost an order of magnitude.
[01:41:33.480 --> 01:41:33.840] Almost.
[01:41:33.800 --> 01:41:34.240] Exactly.
[01:41:34.360 --> 01:41:35.320] Wait, wait, what?
[01:41:35.880 --> 01:41:39.560] So that one could be fiction for that reason, I think.
[01:41:39.560 --> 01:41:45.760] And then the last one about the warming the surface of Mars, 5,000 times more efficient than existing proposals.
[01:41:44.520 --> 01:41:47.440] I don't even know what the existing proposals are.
[01:41:47.520 --> 01:41:47.920] What is it?
[01:41:47.920 --> 01:41:54.800] Like, we were talking years ago about nuclear detonations on Mars in order to get it warm.
[01:41:54.800 --> 01:41:56.880] But what would the new method be?
[01:41:57.040 --> 01:42:04.880] Did we talk about crashing, artificially crashing bodies into Mars, like pulling asteroids in using a tractor beam or something?
[01:42:04.880 --> 01:42:09.200] But that was more to bring water to the planet than heat it up.
[01:42:09.200 --> 01:42:09.520] Yeah.
[01:42:09.520 --> 01:42:10.240] I would think.
[01:42:10.240 --> 01:42:12.640] So warming the surface of Mars 5,000, what would you be doing?
[01:42:12.640 --> 01:42:16.480] You're drilling down to the core and like releasing energy from the core or something?
[01:42:16.480 --> 01:42:18.480] So it's between two and three for me.
[01:42:18.480 --> 01:42:20.080] I'll say the tokamak one.
[01:42:20.080 --> 01:42:28.320] I'll say that one's the fiction because one-tenth of the energy I think is just a bit too grandiose.
[01:42:28.320 --> 01:42:29.360] Okay, Kara.
[01:42:29.360 --> 01:42:33.680] I'm going to go with Evan because I don't know what a tokamak is.
[01:42:33.680 --> 01:42:40.880] That's basically the type of fusion reactor that's like a doughnut shape and you have plasma in it confined by magnetic fields.
[01:42:40.960 --> 01:42:44.560] You got to heat up the planet to the temperature of the core of the sun.
[01:42:44.560 --> 01:42:46.000] The plasma's like the jelly.
[01:42:46.000 --> 01:42:48.960] Yeah, I mean, these all sound not reasonable.
[01:42:49.600 --> 01:42:51.760] So, yeah, I don't know.
[01:42:51.760 --> 01:42:52.960] I'm going to go with Evan because it's the last thing.
[01:42:53.120 --> 01:42:54.080] Thanks, Kara.
[01:42:55.520 --> 01:42:58.720] When we're wrong together, it somehow makes it less painful.
[01:42:58.720 --> 01:42:59.680] It's easier, right?
[01:42:59.680 --> 01:43:00.160] It is.
[01:43:00.160 --> 01:43:00.640] Yeah.
[01:43:00.640 --> 01:43:01.440] Okay, Bob.
[01:43:01.440 --> 01:43:05.120] Yeah, the roofs of solar panels is so damn goofy.
[01:43:05.760 --> 01:43:14.000] But I mean, it seems reasonable, you know, within an order of magnitude that that's what would make, you know, that those numbers would be correct.
[01:43:14.000 --> 01:43:23.520] Too bad you'd also have to, you'd have to also light the interior of those damn structures as well because the highway lights will be too high.
[01:43:24.080 --> 01:43:27.520] You'll be in shadow at night when the lights are on.
[01:43:27.520 --> 01:43:29.360] Yeah, but LEDs take no energy.
[01:43:29.600 --> 01:43:30.200] Yeah.
[01:43:29.680 --> 01:43:37.160] Just another expense to the crazy expense that that would entail.
[01:43:37.240 --> 01:43:39.160] It's just so ridiculous.
[01:43:39.720 --> 01:43:43.720] The new method for warming the surface of Mars, 5,000 times more efficient.
[01:43:43.720 --> 01:43:48.520] I mean, how many plans actually are out there for warming the surface of Mars?
[01:43:48.520 --> 01:43:50.200] How much of a thing is that?
[01:43:50.200 --> 01:43:52.520] How many detailed studies have been done?
[01:43:52.520 --> 01:43:54.520] Not many at all that I'm aware of.
[01:43:54.520 --> 01:44:01.320] So the fact that somebody can come up with a new way that's much more efficient doesn't seem like a big deal to me.
[01:44:01.560 --> 01:44:05.080] Because this doesn't seem like a huge topic that people have analyzed to death.
[01:44:05.080 --> 01:44:07.080] And like, look at this new efficiency we discovered.
[01:44:07.080 --> 01:44:07.800] Big deal.
[01:44:07.800 --> 01:44:13.320] The most benign, the most commonplace thing here is number two with the tokamak.
[01:44:13.560 --> 01:44:14.040] I don't know.
[01:44:14.040 --> 01:44:17.800] You say there, you say one-tenth the energy of current methods.
[01:44:17.800 --> 01:44:25.480] Well, there's a lot of current methods, and some of them, like the MITs, is like uses the latest superconducting technology.
[01:44:25.480 --> 01:44:28.840] It's very efficient in a lot of ways.
[01:44:28.840 --> 01:44:37.320] And the fact that somebody could have come up or a team could have come up with another method with using one-tenth the energy would be fantastic.
[01:44:37.320 --> 01:44:44.040] I hope it's true, but it seems probably in a way more unlikely than the other two here, one or three.
[01:44:44.040 --> 01:44:47.400] And so I'll say Takamak is fiction as well.
[01:44:47.720 --> 01:44:48.360] All right.
[01:44:48.520 --> 01:44:50.360] So you all agree on the third one.
[01:44:50.360 --> 01:44:51.160] So we'll start there.
[01:44:51.160 --> 01:44:57.560] Scientists outline a new method for warming the surface of Mars that is 5,000 times more efficient than existing proposals.
[01:44:57.560 --> 01:45:03.400] You all think this one is science, and this one is science.
[01:45:03.400 --> 01:45:05.880] This is science technique.
[01:45:06.200 --> 01:45:14.520] So the existing proposals mainly involve putting basically the greenhouse gas effect, right?
[01:45:14.640 --> 01:45:25.520] Basically, finding some way to release enough gases and CO2, whatever, to increase the greenhouse gas effect and warm the surface of Mars that way.
[01:45:25.520 --> 01:45:28.560] So this does something else other than that.
[01:45:28.560 --> 01:45:29.760] What do you think it is?
[01:45:29.760 --> 01:45:34.560] I mean, solar arrays are in orbit that redirect the sunlight to the surface.
[01:45:34.560 --> 01:45:36.000] No, not bad guess, but no.
[01:45:36.320 --> 01:45:38.320] Crashing those moons into the surface.
[01:45:38.560 --> 01:45:38.960] No.
[01:45:40.240 --> 01:45:44.880] It basically involves releasing glitter into the atmosphere.
[01:45:45.280 --> 01:45:46.000] Let's not do this.
[01:45:46.320 --> 01:45:47.520] A planet of glitter?
[01:45:47.520 --> 01:45:48.000] That's like.
[01:45:48.240 --> 01:45:48.800] What could go wrong?
[01:45:48.960 --> 01:45:49.840] What could go wrong?
[01:45:50.160 --> 01:45:56.080] Those are their nanoparticles, nanoparticles, that they say have to be shaped just the right way.
[01:45:56.320 --> 01:46:09.680] They say they would be about the size and shape of glitter, but the purpose is to scatter the light so that you get more of the sunlight affecting the surface and to block the release of heat from the surface.
[01:46:09.680 --> 01:46:13.360] So essentially, it would duplicate the greenhouse gas effect.
[01:46:13.360 --> 01:46:15.680] It would scatter light and trap heat.
[01:46:15.680 --> 01:46:20.560] And they said it could work very quickly, like within years, it would already start to warm up the surface.
[01:46:20.560 --> 01:46:29.280] It could warm the surface of Mars by as much as 50 degrees Fahrenheit, which would be hot enough for ice to melt in certain regions.
[01:46:29.280 --> 01:46:34.320] I don't think the poles, but you know, maybe you get some ice melting around the equator of Mars.
[01:46:34.320 --> 01:46:44.000] So the downside of this, and it is 5,000 times as efficient in terms of how much stuff you have to release into the atmosphere in order to get the same effect.
[01:46:44.000 --> 01:46:53.600] And they said that they could maintain this based upon their models by releasing 30 liters per second continuously, basically.
[01:46:53.600 --> 01:46:58.880] A sustained release of 30 liters per second globally of Mars glitter.
[01:46:58.880 --> 01:47:00.000] And that would work.
[01:47:00.600 --> 01:47:08.040] But as soon as you stop doing that, within a few years, the effect would start to slowly go away.
[01:47:08.040 --> 01:47:14.040] So you'd have to basically continuously do it in order to maintain the warming that you get out of it.
[01:47:14.280 --> 01:47:16.200] How would you get that much glitter?
[01:47:16.200 --> 01:47:18.280] Yeah, that would be the problem, right?
[01:47:19.160 --> 01:47:28.920] Not that this would be an easy engineering feat, but it's still 5,000 times easier than bringing gas to Mars.
[01:47:30.600 --> 01:47:34.840] They also said that you could make it out of the local Mars regolith, right?
[01:47:34.840 --> 01:47:36.920] So you wouldn't have to bring material to Mars.
[01:47:36.920 --> 01:47:38.280] You could make it out of Mars.
[01:47:38.280 --> 01:47:48.520] So I guess you could have machines on the surface of Mars processing the Martian dirt into these nanoparticles and then spewing them up into the atmosphere.
[01:47:48.520 --> 01:47:51.320] Does anyone here hate glitter as much as I do?
[01:47:51.640 --> 01:47:52.120] Yeah.
[01:47:52.120 --> 01:47:53.080] Yeah, glitter is not.
[01:47:53.240 --> 01:47:53.480] It does.
[01:47:53.640 --> 01:47:54.360] It's coarse.
[01:47:54.600 --> 01:47:56.120] It gets everywhere.
[01:47:57.400 --> 01:47:58.760] You know, even I.
[01:47:59.400 --> 01:48:05.080] I was doing some early Halloween shopping, and every now and then I'll grab something that looks interesting.
[01:48:05.080 --> 01:48:09.000] And then, but sometimes there's stupid glitter on some of these products.
[01:48:09.000 --> 01:48:13.160] And as soon as I see the glitter, I put the product down, I wipe my hands off.
[01:48:13.160 --> 01:48:17.240] I'm like, I'm not buying that piece of crap because I don't buy anything with glitter on it.
[01:48:17.240 --> 01:48:17.800] That's good.
[01:48:17.800 --> 01:48:23.880] It's also an environmental disaster that has literally no necessary use.
[01:48:23.880 --> 01:48:24.680] Seriously.
[01:48:25.320 --> 01:48:26.920] It's all negative, no positive.
[01:48:27.560 --> 01:48:30.520] As far as I'm concerned, what about with strippers?
[01:48:30.840 --> 01:48:32.280] Glitter or no glitter strippers?
[01:48:32.680 --> 01:48:33.240] Don't need glitter.
[01:48:33.480 --> 01:48:34.240] No.
[01:48:34.240 --> 01:48:35.080] Don't need it.
[01:48:35.320 --> 01:48:37.480] I'm not looking at the glitter.
[01:48:38.200 --> 01:48:38.920] Don't need it.
[01:48:38.920 --> 01:48:40.360] All right, let's go back to number one.
[01:48:40.360 --> 01:48:51.120] A new study finds that if the world's highways were covered with roofs of solar panels, they could generate more than 60% of the world's electricity and reduce traffic deaths by 10.8%.
[01:48:51.680 --> 01:48:54.560] Jay, you think this one is the fiction.
[01:48:54.560 --> 01:48:56.960] Everyone else thinks this one is science.
[01:48:56.960 --> 01:49:00.880] And this one is science.
[01:49:00.880 --> 01:49:01.520] This is science.
[01:49:01.520 --> 01:49:02.320] Sorry, Jay.
[01:49:02.320 --> 01:49:02.560] Damn.
[01:49:02.720 --> 01:49:03.280] Oh, wow.
[01:49:03.280 --> 01:49:04.000] What a stupid.
[01:49:04.320 --> 01:49:05.440] Thanks, Evan.
[01:49:05.440 --> 01:49:06.000] Oh, sure.
[01:49:06.000 --> 01:49:06.720] Well, yeah.
[01:49:06.720 --> 01:49:16.080] They basically just did the calculation, like what it would take to basically cover all of the world's highways with solar panels.
[01:49:16.080 --> 01:49:18.480] Guess how many solar panels it would take?
[01:49:18.480 --> 01:49:19.200] Well, how big?
[01:49:19.520 --> 01:49:20.080] Yeah, right.
[01:49:20.080 --> 01:49:23.840] Like a standard exercise solar panels.
[01:49:23.840 --> 01:49:25.200] Oh, gosh.
[01:49:25.520 --> 01:49:26.960] A centillion of them.
[01:49:27.280 --> 01:49:29.440] It would be a few billion, probably.
[01:49:29.440 --> 01:49:30.800] Yeah, 51 billion.
[01:49:30.800 --> 01:49:31.760] So that's a lot.
[01:49:31.760 --> 01:49:33.200] It would obviously cost a lot of money.
[01:49:33.200 --> 01:49:37.200] There are significant engineering obstacles to this.
[01:49:38.240 --> 01:49:39.120] It's stupid.
[01:49:39.120 --> 01:49:41.280] But yeah, this is never going to happen.
[01:49:41.760 --> 01:49:43.280] No, it's an exercise.
[01:49:43.920 --> 01:49:46.080] But it would generate a lot of electricity.
[01:49:46.080 --> 01:49:58.640] They said that it would provide returns, a net return of about $14 trillion over 25 years of the 25-year lifetime of the panels if they did that.
[01:49:59.440 --> 01:50:00.400] Is that net?
[01:50:00.720 --> 01:50:01.440] Yes, net.
[01:50:02.640 --> 01:50:16.480] Here's a question, and they probably didn't look at this, but if you were to compare all of these newly built road roofs and the surface area that they offered to just the roofs on dwellings that already exist on the planet.
[01:50:16.960 --> 01:50:28.080] Yeah, so I do know that if you put a solar panel, solar panels on every residential home in the United States, that would produce about 30% of our electricity.
[01:50:28.080 --> 01:50:33.480] Yeah, so now you add to it every single build, every single commercial building?
[01:50:34.600 --> 01:50:38.120] It would not be 60%, but it would be, you would be getting up there.
[01:50:38.120 --> 01:50:42.440] Plus, you could also add just regular solar farms, right?
[01:50:42.440 --> 01:50:44.120] It doesn't have to be over the highway.
[01:50:44.120 --> 01:50:44.520] Right.
[01:50:45.240 --> 01:50:45.720] Which we do.
[01:50:45.720 --> 01:50:46.600] We already do that.
[01:50:46.600 --> 01:50:47.480] I know, I know.
[01:50:47.480 --> 01:50:47.880] Yeah.
[01:50:48.120 --> 01:50:49.560] This is why I don't think this is ever going to happen.
[01:50:49.560 --> 01:50:51.160] So it's like, yeah, let's just maximize what we have.
[01:50:51.320 --> 01:50:53.000] Part of some hail-proof.
[01:50:53.080 --> 01:50:58.680] Well, part of the idea is that the panels would block weather from hitting the road.
[01:50:58.680 --> 01:51:04.520] So that's where you get the 10% reduction in traffic deaths: is that the rain and snow and sleet, whatever is not happening.
[01:51:04.680 --> 01:51:05.480] I hadn't thought of that.
[01:51:05.480 --> 01:51:08.360] Yeah, it's protecting the road from the weather.
[01:51:08.360 --> 01:51:09.560] So that's one advantage.
[01:51:09.560 --> 01:51:18.360] They also said that the highways are already basically connected into a network that follows population and whatnot.
[01:51:18.440 --> 01:51:24.680] So it

Prompt 6: Key Takeaways

Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.

Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...". 

Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive. 

IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}

Prompt 7: Segments

Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.

For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)  
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion

IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
  "segments": [
    {
      "segment_title": "Topic Discussion", 
      "timestamp": "01:15:30",
      "key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
      "segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
    }
  ]
}

Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.

Prompt 8: Media Mentions

Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:

Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)  
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)

DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names

IMPORTANT: 
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
  "media_mentions": [
    {
      "title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
      "category": "Book",
      "author_artist": "N/A",
      "context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
      "context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
      "timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
    }
  ]
}

If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}

Prompt 9: Context Setup

You are an expert data extractor tasked with analyzing a podcast transcript. 
I will provide you with part 3 of 3 from a podcast transcript. 
I will then ask you to extract different types of information from this content in subsequent messages. Please confirm you have received and understood the transcript content.

Transcript section:
50:00.400] Is that net?
[01:50:00.720 --> 01:50:01.440] Yes, net.
[01:50:02.640 --> 01:50:16.480] Here's a question, and they probably didn't look at this, but if you were to compare all of these newly built road roofs and the surface area that they offered to just the roofs on dwellings that already exist on the planet.
[01:50:16.960 --> 01:50:28.080] Yeah, so I do know that if you put a solar panel, solar panels on every residential home in the United States, that would produce about 30% of our electricity.
[01:50:28.080 --> 01:50:33.480] Yeah, so now you add to it every single build, every single commercial building?
[01:50:34.600 --> 01:50:38.120] It would not be 60%, but it would be, you would be getting up there.
[01:50:38.120 --> 01:50:42.440] Plus, you could also add just regular solar farms, right?
[01:50:42.440 --> 01:50:44.120] It doesn't have to be over the highway.
[01:50:44.120 --> 01:50:44.520] Right.
[01:50:45.240 --> 01:50:45.720] Which we do.
[01:50:45.720 --> 01:50:46.600] We already do that.
[01:50:46.600 --> 01:50:47.480] I know, I know.
[01:50:47.480 --> 01:50:47.880] Yeah.
[01:50:48.120 --> 01:50:49.560] This is why I don't think this is ever going to happen.
[01:50:49.560 --> 01:50:51.160] So it's like, yeah, let's just maximize what we have.
[01:50:51.320 --> 01:50:53.000] Part of some hail-proof.
[01:50:53.080 --> 01:50:58.680] Well, part of the idea is that the panels would block weather from hitting the road.
[01:50:58.680 --> 01:51:04.520] So that's where you get the 10% reduction in traffic deaths: is that the rain and snow and sleet, whatever is not happening.
[01:51:04.680 --> 01:51:05.480] I hadn't thought of that.
[01:51:05.480 --> 01:51:08.360] Yeah, it's protecting the road from the weather.
[01:51:08.360 --> 01:51:09.560] So that's one advantage.
[01:51:09.560 --> 01:51:18.360] They also said that the highways are already basically connected into a network that follows population and whatnot.
[01:51:18.440 --> 01:51:24.680] So it's like a pre-existing network that would be amenable to a network of energy production.
[01:51:24.680 --> 01:51:27.560] So that's what kind of spawned the idea.
[01:51:27.560 --> 01:51:30.120] But again, I think it's cost-prohibitive.
[01:51:30.120 --> 01:51:34.600] It's not the low-hanging fruit in terms of building solar panels.
[01:51:34.600 --> 01:51:35.080] Right.
[01:51:35.080 --> 01:51:40.600] Plus, the implementation of that, that would be like a rollout over 100 years probably to get to that point.
[01:51:40.600 --> 01:51:43.000] It's all how much money you want to spend, right?
[01:51:43.000 --> 01:51:45.560] Well, yeah, I mean, but you still need labor to do it.
[01:51:46.280 --> 01:51:47.720] You still need labor to do it all.
[01:51:47.720 --> 01:51:48.200] What are you going to do?
[01:51:48.200 --> 01:51:50.360] Get a million people to do this?
[01:51:50.520 --> 01:51:54.280] Yeah, they are building some test stretches, you know, to see how it works.
[01:51:54.440 --> 01:51:54.920] My God.
[01:51:55.160 --> 01:51:59.800] So it may work in a very limited rollout in very specific areas.
[01:51:59.800 --> 01:52:01.960] Yeah, and there's some places that just don't get that much sun.
[01:52:02.320 --> 01:52:06.280] Well, yeah, I mean, put it on, like, there's, but there's also highways going through the desert, you know.
[01:52:06.280 --> 01:52:07.640] Well, absolutely, right, yes.
[01:52:07.640 --> 01:52:08.120] Yeah.
[01:52:08.760 --> 01:52:17.040] So I guess it may have it may be one of those things that, like, certainly the world's highways are not going to be covered with solar panels, but there may be some limited rollout.
[01:52:17.280 --> 01:52:24.160] And who knows, once you do it, you may notice, they may notice that there's some advantages to it or that you could be leveraged in some way.
[01:52:24.160 --> 01:52:25.840] It's hard to predict.
[01:52:26.160 --> 01:52:33.120] I don't think it's going to work out, but you know, if they do some test stretches, it may provide surprising benefits.
[01:52:33.120 --> 01:52:34.160] Who knows?
[01:52:34.640 --> 01:52:37.680] It's a lot better than solar freaking highways, though, I'll tell you that.
[01:52:37.680 --> 01:52:40.240] Yeah, got to admit that.
[01:52:40.240 --> 01:52:51.600] All right, all of this means that engineers have developed a method for heating the plasma inside a tokamak fusion reactor for about one-tenth the energy of current methods is the fiction because, yeah, that's too much of an advantage.
[01:52:51.600 --> 01:52:53.200] I'm sad and happy.
[01:52:53.200 --> 01:52:55.680] But this is based upon a news item that is interesting, Bob.
[01:52:55.680 --> 01:53:01.120] It is still an interesting proposal that might improve the tokamak technology.
[01:53:01.120 --> 01:53:12.960] What they're working on is figuring out how to heat up the plasma using only microwaves and not using the copper coils that they have in the middle of the tokamak, right?
[01:53:12.960 --> 01:53:15.680] So basically, the tokamak works like a toaster oven, right?
[01:53:15.680 --> 01:53:19.120] You have copper coils in the middle that heat up and heat up the plasma.
[01:53:19.120 --> 01:53:22.480] And you also have microwaves that can heat it up from the outside.
[01:53:22.480 --> 01:53:26.320] The problem with the coils is that they take up a lot of space.
[01:53:26.320 --> 01:53:30.720] And so it makes the whole tokamak design a lot bigger.
[01:53:30.720 --> 01:53:48.080] So if you can eliminate it and you can get enough heating from just the microwaves, then you could shrink the size of the tokamak significantly, making everything easier and everything cheaper, which of course is one of the goals, you know, in terms of developing tokamaks.
[01:53:48.320 --> 01:53:49.120] Microwaves.
[01:53:49.280 --> 01:53:52.880] Yeah, so the study was looking at how do they do that?
[01:53:52.880 --> 01:54:04.440] Like, what is the frequency and the angle, and you know, what are all the little details that would optimize the transfer of energy from the microwaves to the plasma and how hot could they make the plasma?
[01:54:04.680 --> 01:54:10.040] Could they make it hot enough that they could eliminate these coils in the center of the tokamak?
[01:54:10.040 --> 01:54:11.480] That was the study.
[01:54:11.480 --> 01:54:17.640] But yeah, you're still transferring energy into heat, right?
[01:54:17.640 --> 01:54:24.520] You're not going to get a 10-time increase in efficiency would be amazing, you know, a little unrealistic.
[01:54:24.520 --> 01:54:25.880] All right, well, good job, guys.
[01:54:25.880 --> 01:54:27.560] Evan, give us a quote.
[01:54:27.560 --> 01:54:32.600] We must remember: psychics and mediums have been plying their trade since the beginning of time.
[01:54:32.600 --> 01:54:42.440] So if anything were to change, it may take generations of rational and critical work to settle the dark waters that are continually being swirled and muddied.
[01:54:42.440 --> 01:54:43.720] Mark Edward.
[01:54:44.040 --> 01:54:45.000] Nice quote from Mark.
[01:54:47.240 --> 01:54:48.200] He will be missed.
[01:54:48.200 --> 01:54:49.720] We will miss you, Mark.
[01:54:50.040 --> 01:54:50.440] All right.
[01:54:50.440 --> 01:54:52.680] Well, thank you all for joining me this week.
[01:54:52.680 --> 01:54:53.160] Cheer me.
[01:54:53.240 --> 01:54:54.280] Thanks, Steve.
[01:54:54.280 --> 01:54:58.520] And until next week, this is your Skeptic's Guide to the Universe.
[01:55:01.160 --> 01:55:07.880] Skeptics Guide to the Universe is produced by SGU Productions, dedicated to promoting science and critical thinking.
[01:55:07.880 --> 01:55:12.520] For more information, visit us at the skepticsguide.org.
[01:55:12.520 --> 01:55:16.440] Send your questions to info at the skepticsguide.org.
[01:55:16.440 --> 01:55:27.080] And if you would like to support the show and all the work that we do, go to patreon.com/slash skepticsguide and consider becoming a patron and becoming part of the SGU community.
[01:55:27.080 --> 01:55:30.600] Our listeners and supporters are what make SGU possible.
[01:55:38.280 --> 01:55:44.960] Today, we'll attempt a feat once thought impossible: overcoming high-interest credit card debt.
[01:55:44.600 --> 01:55:49.200] It requires merely one thing, a SoFi personal loan.
[01:55:49.520 --> 01:55:55.520] With it, you could save big on interest charges by consolidating into one low-fixed-rate monthly payment.
[01:55:55.520 --> 01:55:59.280] Defy high-interest debt with a SoFi personal loan!
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[01:56:05.040 --> 01:56:06.240] Terms and conditions apply.
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Prompt 10: Key Takeaways

Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.

Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...". 

Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive. 

IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}

Prompt 11: Segments

Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.

For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)  
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion

IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
  "segments": [
    {
      "segment_title": "Topic Discussion", 
      "timestamp": "01:15:30",
      "key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
      "segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
    }
  ]
}

Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.

Prompt 12: Media Mentions

Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:

Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)  
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)

DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names

IMPORTANT: 
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
  "media_mentions": [
    {
      "title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
      "category": "Book",
      "author_artist": "N/A",
      "context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
      "context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
      "timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
    }
  ]
}

If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}

Full Transcript

[00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:02.720] So, when I ask, what is Odoo?
[00:00:02.720 --> 00:00:04.240] What comes to mind?
[00:00:04.240 --> 00:00:06.880] Well, Odoo is a bit of everything.
[00:00:06.880 --> 00:00:14.000] Odoo is a suite of business management software that some people say is like fertilizer because of the way it promotes growth.
[00:00:14.000 --> 00:00:22.480] But you know, some people also say Odoo is like a magic bean stock because it grows with your company and is also magically affordable.
[00:00:22.480 --> 00:00:29.200] But then again, you could look at Odoo in terms of how its individual software programs are a lot like building blocks.
[00:00:29.200 --> 00:00:34.720] I mean, whatever your business needs: manufacturing, accounting, HR programs.
[00:00:34.720 --> 00:00:39.040] You can build a custom software suite that's perfect for your company.
[00:00:39.040 --> 00:00:40.800] So, what is Odoo?
[00:00:40.800 --> 00:00:43.840] Well, I guess Odoo is a bit of everything.
[00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:49.440] Odo is a fertilizer, magic beanstock building blocks for business.
[00:00:49.440 --> 00:00:51.040] Yeah, that's it.
[00:00:51.040 --> 00:00:54.800] Which means that Odo is exactly what every business needs.
[00:00:54.800 --> 00:00:57.760] Learn more and sign up now at odo.com.
[00:00:57.760 --> 00:01:00.640] That's odoo.com.
[00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:09.280] You're listening to the skeptic's guide to the universe, your escape to reality.
[00:01:09.920 --> 00:01:12.880] Hello, and welcome to the skeptic's guide to the universe.
[00:01:12.880 --> 00:01:18.080] Today is Wednesday, August 7th, 2024, and this is your host, Stephen Novella.
[00:01:18.080 --> 00:01:20.000] Joining me this week are Bob Novella.
[00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:20.560] Hey, everybody.
[00:01:20.560 --> 00:01:21.920] Kara Santa Maria.
[00:01:21.920 --> 00:01:22.480] Howdy.
[00:01:22.480 --> 00:01:23.440] Jay Novella.
[00:01:23.440 --> 00:01:24.000] Hey, guys.
[00:01:24.000 --> 00:01:25.520] And Evan Bernstein.
[00:01:25.520 --> 00:01:26.560] Good evening, everyone.
[00:01:26.560 --> 00:01:28.240] So, Bob, you know what week it is?
[00:01:28.720 --> 00:01:29.520] It's not all.
[00:01:29.600 --> 00:01:30.800] Perseids.
[00:01:30.800 --> 00:01:31.280] Oh, yes.
[00:01:31.680 --> 00:01:32.240] Oh, my God.
[00:01:32.240 --> 00:01:32.800] It's all new.
[00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:36.400] Since we broke the curse, maybe we'll see it this year.
[00:01:36.720 --> 00:01:37.040] Yeah.
[00:01:37.040 --> 00:01:39.440] We're going to have a friggin' hurricane this year.
[00:01:39.840 --> 00:01:40.240] Yeah.
[00:01:40.400 --> 00:01:43.120] Hitting right well at the peak of the Perseids.
[00:01:43.120 --> 00:01:44.240] So we got that going for us.
[00:01:44.560 --> 00:01:46.320] Didn't Bob tell you he sold his soul to the devil?
[00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:48.880] You guys are never seeing anything celestial again.
[00:01:48.880 --> 00:01:49.360] That was it.
[00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:50.400] That was the trade-off.
[00:01:51.040 --> 00:01:53.920] Yeah, I should have told you guys that, but yeah, we're kind of done.
[00:01:54.000 --> 00:01:57.120] Anything interesting in the sky for all of us forever.
[00:01:57.120 --> 00:01:58.520] I signed nothing.
[00:02:00.200 --> 00:02:03.800] Remember that morning you woke up and there was a little pinprick on your finger?
[00:02:04.120 --> 00:02:05.080] Yeah, it was a mosquito.
[00:01:58.400 --> 00:02:05.800] A little blood fire.
[00:02:06.120 --> 00:02:08.280] Yeah, that's what we wanted you to think.
[00:02:08.280 --> 00:02:08.920] What?
[00:02:08.920 --> 00:02:10.280] So, Steve, hurricane.
[00:02:10.280 --> 00:02:13.080] Wait, we're supposed to go to whatchamacallit on Sunday.
[00:02:13.080 --> 00:02:13.640] Where are you going?
[00:02:13.800 --> 00:02:15.480] Is it going to be, man?
[00:02:15.480 --> 00:02:16.920] Good, good Italian food.
[00:02:16.920 --> 00:02:18.440] I mean, amazing Italian food.
[00:02:18.440 --> 00:02:20.680] If that gets ruined, I will cry.
[00:02:20.680 --> 00:02:21.560] Oliver.
[00:02:21.720 --> 00:02:22.440] Shut up.
[00:02:22.440 --> 00:02:23.880] You shut your mouth.
[00:02:23.880 --> 00:02:25.320] Sunday is Jay's birthday.
[00:02:25.560 --> 00:02:26.120] Jay's birthday.
[00:02:26.120 --> 00:02:27.880] It often coincides with the Perseids.
[00:02:28.040 --> 00:02:28.760] Happy birthday.
[00:02:29.080 --> 00:02:31.640] And legit, though, Steve, we said this before on the show.
[00:02:31.640 --> 00:02:36.360] Like, Bob and I try to see them every year around my birthday, and every single year it's been hazy.
[00:02:36.600 --> 00:02:38.200] Literally, like 15 years.
[00:02:38.520 --> 00:02:39.160] That's too bad.
[00:02:39.160 --> 00:02:40.680] They are really, really spectacular.
[00:02:40.920 --> 00:02:41.560] Oh, yeah, man.
[00:02:41.560 --> 00:02:45.080] They could be a few a minute or more.
[00:02:45.080 --> 00:02:55.000] But you got a day on either side, you know, where you could still see decent three days of staying up pretty late.
[00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:56.200] It's better if you stay up late.
[00:02:56.200 --> 00:02:59.080] Like, stay up after midnight, look to the north.
[00:02:59.080 --> 00:03:00.760] Yeah, go out in the middle of the night.
[00:03:00.760 --> 00:03:02.360] That's when it's amazing.
[00:03:02.360 --> 00:03:05.720] So I just had a fun event yesterday.
[00:03:05.720 --> 00:03:15.240] I was invited to be the keynote speaker for Project Fibonacci, which is basically a STEM promotion conference for high school students.
[00:03:15.560 --> 00:03:16.840] And so they asked me to speak.
[00:03:16.840 --> 00:03:18.760] And this year's theme was AI.
[00:03:18.760 --> 00:03:19.880] So artificial intelligence.
[00:03:19.880 --> 00:03:24.120] They asked me to speak about critical thinking and also artificial intelligence.
[00:03:24.120 --> 00:03:24.840] Ooh, cool.
[00:03:24.920 --> 00:03:25.480] How'd it go?
[00:03:25.720 --> 00:03:26.200] It was great.
[00:03:26.200 --> 00:03:26.680] Yeah, it was good.
[00:03:26.680 --> 00:03:27.160] It was really good.
[00:03:27.240 --> 00:03:27.800] What did you talk about?
[00:03:28.200 --> 00:03:29.720] I talked about critical thinking.
[00:03:29.960 --> 00:03:32.440] So that I always iterate my talks.
[00:03:32.440 --> 00:03:35.080] Like, I never give the exact same talk twice, which is crazy.
[00:03:35.160 --> 00:03:36.600] I just make more work for myself.
[00:03:36.600 --> 00:03:40.360] But I'm always talking to a slightly different audience.
[00:03:40.360 --> 00:03:41.080] You know what I mean?
[00:03:41.080 --> 00:03:43.560] And plus, things change all the time.
[00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:48.560] So I framed this one as how to know what's really real.
[00:03:48.560 --> 00:03:50.080] You get that phrase.
[00:03:50.080 --> 00:03:50.560] Yeah.
[00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:52.000] In the age of misinformation.
[00:03:52.400 --> 00:03:58.000] So it was all about how to control your access to information.
[00:03:58.560 --> 00:03:59.200] You know what I mean?
[00:03:59.200 --> 00:04:02.000] Like, don't let other people decide what information you see.
[00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:09.440] And I talked about all the ways in which information is curated and, you know, whether using algorithms or AI or whatever.
[00:04:10.080 --> 00:04:20.240] And then, of course, all the critical thinking and media savvy and scientific literacy tools that you need to use in order to be able to evaluate sources of information and the quality of information, et cetera.
[00:04:20.240 --> 00:04:24.320] So a lot of skepticism 101, but just sort of packaged around that theme.
[00:04:24.320 --> 00:04:24.720] Nice.
[00:04:24.720 --> 00:04:29.360] Yeah, just talking about how AI influences the whole thing, right?
[00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:34.560] That, you know, you could generate massive amounts of fake information, deep fakes.
[00:04:34.560 --> 00:04:38.880] The internet is increasingly bots talking to other bots, you know, that whole thing.
[00:04:38.880 --> 00:04:39.520] Oh, okay.
[00:04:39.520 --> 00:04:43.520] I showed them a few photos and had them guess if they were real or fake.
[00:04:43.840 --> 00:04:45.360] They basically got them all wrong.
[00:04:45.360 --> 00:04:48.960] Because I chose them specifically to be a little bit deceptive.
[00:04:49.280 --> 00:04:52.000] Oh, like you chose real-looking fake pictures and fake-looking real pictures.
[00:04:52.240 --> 00:04:53.040] Yes, exactly.
[00:04:53.040 --> 00:04:53.600] I love it.
[00:04:53.840 --> 00:04:55.760] Yeah, they fell for it.
[00:04:56.000 --> 00:04:57.040] Suckers.
[00:04:57.360 --> 00:05:00.480] All right, so we do have to start with a little bit of sad news, Evan.
[00:05:00.640 --> 00:05:01.760] You told us about this.
[00:05:01.760 --> 00:05:07.120] You heard first, our friend Mark Edward passed away last week.
[00:05:07.120 --> 00:05:09.520] Yeah, we were really sorry to hear about this.
[00:05:09.520 --> 00:05:11.120] It was this past Sunday.
[00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:11.920] Oh, man.
[00:05:11.920 --> 00:05:12.640] I read about it.
[00:05:12.640 --> 00:05:14.000] Yeah, in Facebook posts.
[00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:16.400] They were pouring in from skeptics all around the world.
[00:05:16.400 --> 00:05:18.880] And I reached out to Susan Gerbik.
[00:05:19.200 --> 00:05:23.040] She's well known for her work in spearheading the guerrilla skeptics.
[00:05:23.040 --> 00:05:30.000] And they do a really good job of keeping Wikipedia entries tidy for the well-known people in the skeptic community.
[00:05:30.840 --> 00:05:38.120] She was Mark's life partner, and she shared her thoughts on a Facebook post this past Monday.
[00:05:38.360 --> 00:05:41.080] It's a long post, but I'll just read a couple things from it.
[00:05:41.080 --> 00:05:50.120] She says, In my mind, when I thought I would have to make this post, I thought I would start by saying, It's with a heavy heart to tell you that Mark Edward had died.
[00:05:50.120 --> 00:05:57.480] But now I've been through this process the last few years and weeks, I can't say that.
[00:05:57.480 --> 00:06:01.960] It was an amazing death and an amazing life we had together.
[00:06:01.960 --> 00:06:09.480] Mark has had stage four prostate cancer for years, and science has given him the most amazing quality of life.
[00:06:09.800 --> 00:06:12.440] He never thought he would make it to age 73.
[00:06:12.440 --> 00:06:18.040] He was shocked he would make it to 70 or even 65, and every birthday he was shocked.
[00:06:18.040 --> 00:06:21.160] We knew the end would probably be 2024.
[00:06:21.160 --> 00:06:23.800] We had talked about it, and we were prepared.
[00:06:23.800 --> 00:06:28.040] I thought it would be later in the year, but life's not always what we prepare for.
[00:06:28.040 --> 00:06:29.960] His last few months have been incredible.
[00:06:29.960 --> 00:06:40.520] He has been performing, teaching magic, making art, listening to music, spending time with his chosen family, our cats, and he got to see the sunflowers he planted grow taller than his house.
[00:06:40.520 --> 00:06:41.480] Yeah, it's a long post.
[00:06:41.480 --> 00:06:45.080] You can read it in its entirety over at Susan's Facebook page.
[00:06:45.080 --> 00:06:46.280] It's a lovely tribute.
[00:06:46.280 --> 00:06:48.360] Susan's a very lovely person.
[00:06:48.360 --> 00:06:57.400] When she and I were exchanging messages on Facebook the other day, she reminded me that the day he died, it was August 4th, was International Psychic Day.
[00:06:58.360 --> 00:07:06.120] One of many strange coincidences that happens throughout a person's life, and hey, even in their death as well.
[00:07:06.120 --> 00:07:07.160] But why is that relevant?
[00:07:07.160 --> 00:07:19.040] Well, if you knew Mark Edward, you would know about his career as a professional psychic, his undercover work that he did in the 1990s when he was manning a phone at a popular psychic telephone network.
[00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:21.440] Boy, that was before the internet, wasn't it?
[00:07:21.840 --> 00:07:24.240] Just before the internet was really becoming a thing.
[00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:26.160] Okay, so he was a professional mentalist.
[00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:29.200] He specialized in what he called magic of the mind.
[00:07:29.200 --> 00:07:36.000] He spent over 35 years in world-class venues from high-end nightclubs and theaters to hundreds of private parties and corporate events.
[00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:45.200] Traveled the world as a skeptical activist and used those skills, including his skills as a mentalist, to teach and promote critical thinking.
[00:07:45.200 --> 00:07:48.240] A couple little facts about Mark in case you didn't know.
[00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:55.200] He's only one of five specially chosen and trained psychic mediums in the history of Hollywood's famed Magic Castle.
[00:07:55.200 --> 00:07:56.960] Kara, I know you're familiar with that.
[00:07:56.960 --> 00:07:57.680] Oh, yeah.
[00:07:57.680 --> 00:07:58.240] Yeah.
[00:07:58.240 --> 00:08:02.400] He performed 15 years of seance performances over there.
[00:08:02.560 --> 00:08:06.560] I helped him perfect the role of spirit medium and psychic entertainer.
[00:08:06.720 --> 00:08:16.640] He's written books on the subjects, obviously given lectures on how magic works, mentalism, and what psychic fraud is really all about.
[00:08:16.640 --> 00:08:21.760] And of course, he's well sourced in so many different news articles.
[00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:25.120] Networks have referred to him in all of his work.
[00:08:25.120 --> 00:08:28.960] And, you know, just really a lifelong pursuit of this.
[00:08:29.120 --> 00:08:40.400] We had the pleasure of sitting down with Mark way back, Tam7, at an interview, episode 219, if you care to go back and listen.
[00:08:40.400 --> 00:08:42.160] I did listen to it today.
[00:08:42.320 --> 00:08:45.760] Steve, you were involved with a project directly with him as well.
[00:08:45.760 --> 00:08:47.280] Yeah, the pilot.
[00:08:47.280 --> 00:08:50.080] He was on the pilot with me for the skeptologists.
[00:08:50.720 --> 00:08:52.800] But unfortunately, never got picked up, never aired.
[00:08:52.800 --> 00:08:54.480] But yeah, that's when I first met him.
[00:08:54.480 --> 00:08:56.080] Yeah, it was during that pilot.
[00:08:56.080 --> 00:08:56.560] Yep.
[00:08:56.560 --> 00:08:57.680] Yep, during that time.
[00:08:57.680 --> 00:09:03.240] And of course, we had seen him at many skeptic conferences after that, became very friendly with him.
[00:08:59.920 --> 00:09:07.320] You know, obviously had him on the show, but also got to know him a little bit better.
[00:09:07.800 --> 00:09:11.800] I thought a couple of takeaways from our interview we did with him, a few things.
[00:09:11.800 --> 00:09:22.840] You know, when he was working at the phone bank, you know, basically pretending to be a psychic, it was like a Lady Cleo kind of thing, even though it wasn't her network specifically.
[00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:25.400] But this was in the 90s when this was a big thing.
[00:09:25.400 --> 00:09:27.160] Telephone psychics, right?
[00:09:27.160 --> 00:09:30.520] I mean, it was a big moneymaker.
[00:09:30.520 --> 00:09:33.880] So he was in there, but he kind of was an infiltrator in a way.
[00:09:33.880 --> 00:09:40.840] You know, he got in there and he would try to help people out as much as possible.
[00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:44.200] He observed it as poor man's therapy.
[00:09:44.440 --> 00:10:04.920] And what he meant by that is that these were people who were so either desperate looking for answers or really couldn't afford in some ways to get the professional help that they otherwise needed that people will turn to these kinds of psychics to help them make life decisions, make health decisions, make financial decisions.
[00:10:04.920 --> 00:10:07.160] Wait, don't psychics cost more than therapists?
[00:10:08.360 --> 00:10:10.120] At a fraction of a price, apparently.
[00:10:10.120 --> 00:10:10.360] Really?
[00:10:10.840 --> 00:10:12.200] I thought psychics were pretty expensive.
[00:10:12.360 --> 00:10:14.920] Well, if they're deliberately trying to rip you off, they are.
[00:10:15.240 --> 00:10:22.200] Yeah, initially, though, Kara is what happens is, you know, like many things, they'll draw you in at a cheap rate.
[00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:22.440] Right.
[00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:24.520] Like, like an addict, right?
[00:10:24.520 --> 00:10:27.320] They'll give away free drugs or whatever.
[00:10:27.320 --> 00:10:29.560] And then eventually they'll turn it up.
[00:10:29.560 --> 00:10:33.560] If they find out that you've got money, they'll start charging more for these things.
[00:10:33.560 --> 00:10:33.720] Right.
[00:10:33.800 --> 00:10:35.240] Which is not what therapists do.
[00:10:35.800 --> 00:10:36.680] No, of course not.
[00:10:37.400 --> 00:10:38.040] Of course not.
[00:10:38.040 --> 00:10:40.040] His book is called Psychic Blues.
[00:10:40.440 --> 00:10:43.080] That's his book about his time in that industry.
[00:10:43.080 --> 00:10:45.760] You know, he did a seance with us when we interviewed him.
[00:10:45.760 --> 00:10:46.480] I remember this.
[00:10:44.840 --> 00:10:48.800] You know, he had us all, it was basically, you know, a goof.
[00:10:48.960 --> 00:10:58.640] We all put our hands on the table, turned the lights out, you know, and he asked some silly questions and did the old table thumping, you know, with his knee or his foot or something.
[00:10:58.960 --> 00:11:02.160] And then when it was over, God, I laughed at my own stupid comment.
[00:11:02.160 --> 00:11:04.480] He said, all right, did you feel anything?
[00:11:04.480 --> 00:11:07.520] And I said, yeah, I felt other people's hands on the table.
[00:11:08.560 --> 00:11:09.200] I don't know why.
[00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:10.320] That just struck me as funny.
[00:11:10.320 --> 00:11:11.840] We had a good laugh over that one.
[00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:18.880] But yeah, Mark, very well known among skeptics and will certainly be missed.
[00:11:18.880 --> 00:11:20.160] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:21.200] All right.
[00:11:21.200 --> 00:11:22.160] Thank you, Evan.
[00:11:22.160 --> 00:11:24.480] Let's move on with some news items.
[00:11:24.480 --> 00:11:28.560] Jay, you're going to tell us about deep storage on the moon.
[00:11:28.560 --> 00:11:33.120] Yeah, this is like a, you know, it's going to be expensive, but it seems.
[00:11:34.080 --> 00:11:35.040] Let's start right there.
[00:11:36.480 --> 00:11:44.240] But it seems like a no-brainer, you know, after all these years of being a fan of everything that goes on in outer space.
[00:11:44.240 --> 00:11:50.320] So scientists and researchers are now proposing that the moon's extremely cold.
[00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:54.800] And, you know, it's in lots of places, it's permanently shadowed.
[00:11:54.800 --> 00:11:58.800] This is a good fit to cryopreserve animal cells.
[00:11:58.800 --> 00:12:00.800] And I suspect it would be the beginning.
[00:12:00.880 --> 00:12:09.040] If we successfully, you know, create a facility to contain this, then it would be probably other things too, like a seed bank and all that.
[00:12:09.040 --> 00:12:13.360] This would be the ultimate version, like I said, of a seed vault or a seed bank.
[00:12:13.520 --> 00:12:19.280] And this would safeguard Earth's biodiversity against all this stuff, right?
[00:12:20.080 --> 00:12:22.800] You know, the loose term is terrestrial threats.
[00:12:22.800 --> 00:12:33.640] You know, we're talking horrible weather, natural, you know, natural disasters, climate change, wars, socioeconomic disruptions, you know, another nice catch-all phrase there.
[00:12:33.800 --> 00:12:37.800] But, you know, things are kind of scary around the globe right now.
[00:12:37.800 --> 00:12:40.440] You know, things could get nice in 20 years and get scary again.
[00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:41.880] And we just don't know what the future is.
[00:12:41.880 --> 00:12:44.040] So it is a good idea.
[00:12:44.040 --> 00:12:49.000] You know, God for freaking bid we need it, but it's great that we would have this.
[00:12:49.000 --> 00:12:57.160] So this idea is led by Mary Hadgdorn from the Smithsonian Conservation Biology Institute.
[00:12:57.160 --> 00:13:00.520] They published their findings in the journal Bioscience.
[00:13:00.520 --> 00:13:02.040] So let's get to some details here.
[00:13:02.040 --> 00:13:05.960] So the moon's south pole is, of course, their chosen location.
[00:13:05.960 --> 00:13:12.360] This is because the temperatures are consistently at or below minus 196 degrees Celsius.
[00:13:12.360 --> 00:13:15.640] That's 300 minus 320 degrees Fahrenheit.
[00:13:15.640 --> 00:13:24.440] Now, absolute zero is minus 273 degrees Celsius or 400 and minus 459 degrees Fahrenheit.
[00:13:24.440 --> 00:13:30.040] But the moon's coldest temperature would serve very well as a natural cryogenic environment.
[00:13:30.040 --> 00:13:31.720] It doesn't need to be absolute zero.
[00:13:31.960 --> 00:13:38.360] It's definitely cold enough to have an incredibly long preservation effect at that temperature.
[00:13:38.360 --> 00:13:42.200] It wouldn't require power or constant oversight.
[00:13:42.200 --> 00:13:44.120] These are two huge things.
[00:13:44.120 --> 00:13:53.880] The moon would provide significantly more security and longevity than Earth's bio repositories, and for obvious reasons, like I said before.
[00:13:53.880 --> 00:14:03.000] So also the Earthbound ones need intensive management, constant electrical power, continuous supply of liquid nitrogen.
[00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:10.760] You know, there's all these things together, making them vulnerable to something as common as a significant bad weather event.
[00:14:10.760 --> 00:14:15.000] You know, they're going to pick places, of course, where there aren't earthquakes, but earthquakes can literally happen anywhere.
[00:14:15.760 --> 00:14:22.480] As a quick example, climate change, you know, tornadoes are becoming more common in freaking Connecticut in the United States.
[00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:28.880] You know, for a minor, you know, change in Earth's temperature, and like all of a sudden the weather's going crazy.
[00:14:28.880 --> 00:14:30.480] What's it going to be like in 30 years?
[00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:31.440] You know, who knows?
[00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:41.440] So, this project aims to initially target the most at-risk species, but of course, their ultimate hope here is to cryopreserve most animal species on Earth.
[00:14:41.440 --> 00:14:51.760] They've done some sample testing and they've done these in space-like conditions on Earth to test out the concept, you know, to ensure viability before being stored on the moon.
[00:14:51.760 --> 00:15:00.320] This involves challenges like developing robust packaging to protect samples from space's extreme conditions, you know, high levels of radiation.
[00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:06.080] They want to make sure that they maintain the cryogenic temperatures during transport, which is a big deal.
[00:15:06.080 --> 00:15:13.840] You know, I guess that they would bring them down to temperature on Earth, get them stable, you know, make sure everything is the way that they want, and then they would move them.
[00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:34.160] There's also the idea that a lot of different countries are going to want the really high-profile places on the moon, like all the really good places on the moon, like this, you know, because even though this would be a great place to store biology for a long term, it's also a good place for people to live because of how stable it is and the temperature is very, very consistent.
[00:15:34.160 --> 00:15:40.560] Additionally, the impact of microgravity, which Bob likes to talk a lot about, that could be a problem, right?
[00:15:40.560 --> 00:15:46.640] You don't want anything to like hit the facility, so we'd have to have it underground, you know, probably in a lava tube or something like that.
[00:15:46.640 --> 00:15:53.040] So, the Lunar Biorepository, this would operate as a co-op with different nations.
[00:15:53.040 --> 00:16:00.440] It would involve public and private-funded scientific partners, you know, similar to the seed vault that's found in Norway.
[00:16:00.760 --> 00:16:08.040] The ultimate goal here is to create this secure and sustainable solution that will preserve the Earth's biodiversity.
[00:16:08.040 --> 00:16:10.920] And, you know, again, I think it's a great idea.
[00:16:10.920 --> 00:16:12.520] It's going to be difficult.
[00:16:12.520 --> 00:16:19.800] It's going to, you know, all in, think about what we'd have to do and all of the samples that would have to be taken from all of these different animals.
[00:16:19.800 --> 00:16:22.120] I mean, think about the variety that we have.
[00:16:22.120 --> 00:16:25.560] And, you know, things are going to get more extreme as weather changes.
[00:16:25.560 --> 00:16:36.200] We're going to be losing a lot of creatures that live on the Earth, and we'd want to get their samples and stored on Earth probably before we would ship them up to the moon eventually.
[00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:39.160] And it is a pipe dream right now because think about what I'm saying here.
[00:16:39.160 --> 00:16:49.000] I'm talking about like, you know, a facility that's specifically for this in some underground lair, deep enough underground to protect from radiation and all that stuff.
[00:16:49.000 --> 00:16:52.920] So it's probably going to happen, but it's probably going to take a long time.
[00:16:52.920 --> 00:16:54.920] But this is what scientists do.
[00:16:54.920 --> 00:17:01.160] They plan way in advance because that's what you have to do, because everything has to be ready when you need it to be ready.
[00:17:01.160 --> 00:17:04.120] They're focusing on preserving skin cells.
[00:17:04.120 --> 00:17:12.760] That's because they can be easily cryopreserved and they can later be transformed into stem cells, which could recreate the species.
[00:17:12.760 --> 00:17:14.520] You know, there's other things that they could do.
[00:17:14.520 --> 00:17:20.600] Like they could preserve sperm and embryos, but that's way more complicated and just a much harder thing to pull off.
[00:17:20.680 --> 00:17:24.120] So I guess the stem cell route is the one that they think is the most viable.
[00:17:24.120 --> 00:17:29.720] But that's not as complete, though, as doing if you had a fertilized egg.
[00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:29.960] Yeah.
[00:17:30.280 --> 00:17:32.360] Or just even germline cells at all.
[00:17:32.360 --> 00:17:32.680] Right.
[00:17:32.840 --> 00:17:39.320] It's much better because, you know, a fertilized egg has the mitochondria, it has the cell structures in it.
[00:17:39.320 --> 00:17:47.920] If you just have like a skin cell that you can turn into a stem cell, it's not quite as good, but at least you get the DNA.
[00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:50.960] Well, I don't agree with you at all, Steve, just because I'm a jerk.
[00:17:44.760 --> 00:17:51.120] Okay.
[00:17:51.760 --> 00:17:52.800] No, you're right, Steve.
[00:17:52.800 --> 00:18:03.840] I did read a little bit about this, and that what you said tracks with what I read, but I guess the sperm and embryo thing is super hard to preserve for a long time.
[00:18:03.840 --> 00:18:06.880] Well, what are people using in frozen zoos on Earth?
[00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:10.400] I would imagine they're using sperm and embryos, but they can replenish, you know?
[00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:11.280] Yeah, that's true.
[00:18:11.280 --> 00:18:18.640] I've only ever done a deep dive into like frozen zoos for plants, which I think are much easier to cryo-preserve.
[00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:21.040] Well, aren't we just not seeds?
[00:18:21.040 --> 00:18:22.320] No, not always.
[00:18:22.320 --> 00:18:22.800] Okay.
[00:18:22.800 --> 00:18:25.760] Because I know we have the frozen seed bank up in Washington.
[00:18:25.840 --> 00:18:30.960] Yeah, we have the seed bank, but in Svalbard, yeah, yeah, but no, not always.
[00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:36.480] And I think that, yeah, frozen zoos, they do exist on Earth, right?
[00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:43.360] But we don't, I don't think we have every single species already catalogued and documented, or every known species, I should say.
[00:18:43.360 --> 00:18:43.840] Yeah.
[00:18:43.840 --> 00:18:46.000] No, I mean, that's a Herculean effort.
[00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:46.560] Exactly.
[00:18:46.560 --> 00:18:52.880] They're going to be testing more of this on Earth, and then they're going to bring some of the tests up to the space station just to see what happens.
[00:18:52.880 --> 00:19:00.880] You know, they're being very thorough about it, which is really smart because, you know, one, you know, one thing that they didn't think of could spoil it all.
[00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:03.200] So they want to really cover all their bases here.
[00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:03.600] Yeah.
[00:19:04.320 --> 00:19:08.880] Did they talk at all, Jay, about would that be better than just putting it in orbit?
[00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:11.120] They did not mention that at all, Steve.
[00:19:11.360 --> 00:19:11.920] I think.
[00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:17.200] They did mention radiation problems, so I think the radiation problems in space would add just another layer of.
[00:19:17.520 --> 00:19:18.960] Right, just a bunch of mutated things.
[00:19:19.840 --> 00:19:41.160] You know, and it is like a more complete solution, Steve, because, you know, I think anybody that is thinking of low Earth or, you know, some type of orbit around the Earth, the problem is, is that experts are starting to get very concerned about what's going to happen to all the space junk and how it could, you know, it could cascade into a really big problem.
[00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:50.840] So I would imagine that they'd want that solved before anyone would feel comfortable putting up like a permanent, you know, permanent thing in orbit that's just going to be there as a seed bank.
[00:19:50.840 --> 00:19:51.720] You know, I don't know.
[00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:57.080] I'm guessing at that, but I wouldn't feel comfortable putting anything in low Earth orbit right now.
[00:19:57.080 --> 00:20:02.840] Yeah, I mean, is the assumption that anything in low Earth orbit is technically permanent?
[00:20:03.160 --> 00:20:06.280] Well, it'd have to be high enough that there's no drag from the atmosphere.
[00:20:06.280 --> 00:20:06.680] Right.
[00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:07.240] Yeah.
[00:20:07.880 --> 00:20:11.080] But then at that point, yeah, like just collisions are probably pretty.
[00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:11.720] Yeah.
[00:20:11.720 --> 00:20:16.600] I mean, we have to be on the other side of this junk problem that we have in orbit around the Earth.
[00:20:16.600 --> 00:20:19.480] And that's that apparently is a long way off.
[00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:19.800] All right.
[00:20:19.800 --> 00:20:20.520] Thanks, Jay.
[00:20:20.520 --> 00:20:20.920] Yep.
[00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:24.600] Kara, tell us about the science of happiness.
[00:20:24.600 --> 00:20:37.320] There have been a lot of different studies that show different outcomes when we ask pretty basic questions about should we be aiming for the pursuit of happiness?
[00:20:37.320 --> 00:20:40.440] Should we be focusing on positive thinking?
[00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:48.840] This is an area, a research area that's really fascinating to me, mostly because of my work in psychoancology.
[00:20:48.840 --> 00:20:54.520] I hear a lot, and probably, Steve, I'm sure you run across this a lot in clinic as well.
[00:20:54.520 --> 00:21:04.680] A lot of sort of, whether it's magical thinking or whether it's actually thinking that probably lines up with some evidence that exists out there, there.
[00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:14.440] There's a lot of power or strength put into the idea of thinking positively and that being linked to health outcomes, right?
[00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:27.600] I mean, and so sometimes it's tough to talk about patients, to talk to patients about this issue in an informed way because the research evidence is kind of all over the place.
[00:21:27.600 --> 00:21:36.400] There is some pretty strong evidence that shows that pessimists actually do sometimes have better health outcomes because they're more likely to like go to the doctor.
[00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:37.760] So, oh, what's going on with me?
[00:21:37.760 --> 00:21:39.120] I need to go check this out.
[00:21:39.120 --> 00:21:52.720] But a lot of the studies, and this is the first thing that's pointed out in this new study, tend to focus on the fact that when people value happiness, like the more that they value happiness, the less happy they are.
[00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:55.600] And that seems like a weird paradox, right?
[00:21:55.600 --> 00:21:58.480] And so it's like, why would that be the case?
[00:21:58.480 --> 00:22:05.840] So a group of researchers published a new study in the journal Emotion called Unpacking the Pursuit of Happiness.
[00:22:05.840 --> 00:22:07.360] Ooh, I don't want to read the second half.
[00:22:07.360 --> 00:22:08.640] It spoils the whole study.
[00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:09.840] No, I'm going to.
[00:22:10.160 --> 00:22:17.440] Being concerned about happiness but not aspiring to happiness is linked with negative meta-emotions and worse well-being.
[00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:25.760] So sort of what they contend is that a lot of the studies, a lot of the research in this area conflate different constructs.
[00:22:25.760 --> 00:22:30.240] They don't drill down deep enough into what's actually being studied.
[00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:42.960] And so they wanted to make a pretty firm distinction between those two constructs that are listed in the title: being concerned about happiness or aspiring to happiness.
[00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:48.800] Those are two very different things, even though they sound like they would overlap or like they would be the same thing.
[00:22:48.800 --> 00:22:51.920] They recruited over 1,800 participants.
[00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:59.600] They divided it into three separate studies and they asked individuals to judge their own happiness.
[00:22:59.800 --> 00:23:09.960] And they did find that individuals who judged their own happiness reported across the board like lower well-being, increased negativity, and more disappointment in positive events.
[00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:11.880] And it's like, why would that happen?
[00:23:12.200 --> 00:23:19.000] Well, it's not necessarily saying to yourself, I want to pursue happiness.
[00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:21.080] Happiness is a goal of mine.
[00:23:21.080 --> 00:23:23.480] I want to put it in the center of my life.
[00:23:23.480 --> 00:23:25.320] I want to prioritize it.
[00:23:25.320 --> 00:23:28.200] That actually is not in and of itself harmful.
[00:23:28.200 --> 00:23:33.160] It's weirdly also not necessarily linked to positive outcomes.
[00:23:33.160 --> 00:23:35.400] It seems to just be kind of neutral.
[00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:50.760] The difference here is the self-reflection, it's the measurement, it's the introspection that comes with having an expectation, and that expectation not really always aligning with reality.
[00:23:50.760 --> 00:24:02.120] So, what the researchers basically found is that people who are constantly self-evaluating their happiness and going, Am I happy enough in this moment?
[00:24:02.120 --> 00:24:05.320] Is this giving me the joy that I was hoping that I was expecting?
[00:24:05.320 --> 00:24:08.760] They tend to experience lower life satisfaction.
[00:24:08.760 --> 00:24:13.720] They tend to experience, they rate higher on measures of depressive symptoms.
[00:24:13.720 --> 00:24:24.760] They also found that people who focused on judging their happiness, right, or constantly evaluating it, felt more negative generally about positive events.
[00:24:24.760 --> 00:24:29.320] So, you take two groups of people, you show them a positive event.
[00:24:29.320 --> 00:24:43.880] Those who are kind of critically evaluating whether or not they're happy, they tend to say that that positive thing was less positive than individuals who aren't undergoing that sort of meta process.
[00:24:44.200 --> 00:24:52.000] They also found that in general, and this is sort of the big takeaway from the study, it's the advice that the researchers sort of give.
[00:24:52.160 --> 00:25:03.120] It's also the advice that I often give in psychotherapy: accepting your authentic emotions as they come, not judging them and saying, wait, this isn't how it should be.
[00:25:03.120 --> 00:25:06.320] I need to change so that I can be more like what I should be.
[00:25:06.320 --> 00:25:08.320] But saying, no, this is how I am.
[00:25:08.320 --> 00:25:14.880] This is how I'm genuinely and authentically reacting to this experience does tend to lead to better psychological well-being.
[00:25:15.280 --> 00:25:25.200] So it's not a bad thing, according to this study and according to a lot of other studies, to put happiness in the center or to say happiness is a goal in your life.
[00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:30.800] I think where things start to go awry is when we set ourselves up to a standard.
[00:25:30.800 --> 00:25:39.520] And let's be honest, an impossible standard that I'm going to be happy and joyful all the time, that I'm always going to be positive about every experience that I have.
[00:25:39.520 --> 00:25:42.800] And it's very difficult to fulfill that standard.
[00:25:42.800 --> 00:25:53.280] And it seems to be the case that when we're constantly reflecting and asking ourselves if we do, we notice that we're falling short of an unrealistic expectation.
[00:25:53.280 --> 00:26:05.200] And when we fall short of an unrealistic expectation, our evaluation of that experience actually results in a negative kind of schema.
[00:26:05.200 --> 00:26:11.200] So it's interesting, in trying to be happy, we're often setting ourselves up for less happiness.
[00:26:11.520 --> 00:26:16.080] Is it like people are looking for the perfect happiness and because they can't achieve it, it therefore?
[00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:17.040] I think that's part of it.
[00:26:17.600 --> 00:26:18.320] I think that's part of it.
[00:26:18.320 --> 00:26:18.560] Yeah.
[00:26:18.560 --> 00:26:20.560] I mean, it's a little hard to define, right?
[00:26:20.560 --> 00:26:22.160] What is the perfect happiness?
[00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:22.800] Yeah.
[00:26:23.600 --> 00:26:29.760] I think it's an expectation of consistency in mood, which is not appropriate, and affect, which is not appropriate.
[00:26:30.040 --> 00:26:39.160] I think it's an expectation that somehow we have enough, that it's a failure of will if we have negative emotions.
[00:26:39.480 --> 00:26:40.920] And that's not the case.
[00:26:40.920 --> 00:26:44.440] It's a normal human experience to have negative emotions.
[00:26:44.440 --> 00:26:47.480] And most of the emotions that we have are quite adaptive.
[00:26:47.480 --> 00:26:50.600] Anger, fear, frustration.
[00:26:50.920 --> 00:26:56.440] Oftentimes these signal to us things that are really necessary for our evolutionary survival.
[00:26:56.440 --> 00:27:12.280] Of course, now we live in a world where we don't always have to require those things and we ruminate on them and we have a lot of negative kind of coping strategies that result in things like anxiety and depression backfiring and being chronic or being kind of misplaced.
[00:27:12.280 --> 00:27:20.520] But the truth of the matter is, yeah, there is this sort of social pressure, this toxic positivity, this power of positive thinking.
[00:27:20.520 --> 00:27:22.040] It very much links back.
[00:27:22.040 --> 00:27:24.680] Would you agree, Steve, to like the secret?
[00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:31.480] Yeah, it's also like blaming people for things not going well or for not being happy.
[00:27:31.480 --> 00:27:33.480] It's like there's something, and it's neurotic.
[00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:34.840] It's a lot of neuroticism.
[00:27:34.840 --> 00:27:37.240] It's like being anxious about being anxious.
[00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:37.560] Yep.
[00:27:37.640 --> 00:27:39.560] It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
[00:27:39.560 --> 00:27:46.600] I also find that, and it's tricky because, as you say, you want to take positive steps in your life.
[00:27:46.600 --> 00:27:47.960] Yeah, and you want to be more happy.
[00:27:48.600 --> 00:27:49.640] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:27:49.640 --> 00:28:05.400] But the thing is, oftentimes, ironically, for events that should be super happy, people are upset and sad because it's like they set an impossible standard.
[00:28:05.400 --> 00:28:06.760] It's like the bridezilla thing.
[00:28:06.760 --> 00:28:07.640] It's like the wedding.
[00:28:07.640 --> 00:28:09.960] The wedding day is supposed to be the happiest day in your life.
[00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:17.760] But if it doesn't go perfectly, then it's a disaster and you're all ends in tears, right?
[00:28:17.760 --> 00:28:21.280] Or you're on vacation and you want it to be the absolute best.
[00:28:21.280 --> 00:28:30.000] And so you get really neurotic and anxious about having it be the perfect event rather than just going with the flow to some extent.
[00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:31.440] And there's a happy medium in there.
[00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:33.280] You don't want to be too passive.
[00:28:33.280 --> 00:28:39.280] You want to, you know, again, plan to get the most out of things, but be okay with whatever happens, you know?
[00:28:39.840 --> 00:28:49.200] It's, you know, a strategy that I often use in therapy with patients that I work with with cancer is when they're dealing with things like scanxiety, which is a very common experience, right?
[00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:55.200] You're going to go in for an MRI or you're going to go in for a blood test and it's going to tell you where your tumor markers are.
[00:28:55.200 --> 00:28:55.760] Have they shrunk?
[00:28:55.760 --> 00:28:56.400] Have they grown?
[00:28:56.400 --> 00:28:57.200] Have they stayed the same?
[00:28:57.360 --> 00:28:59.440] It's incredibly anxiety-inducing.
[00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:02.000] That's a normal and healthy reaction.
[00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:10.400] But very often we talk about this strategy of hoping for the best while preparing for a not good outcome.
[00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:10.960] Yeah.
[00:29:10.960 --> 00:29:19.280] And finding that balance in our lives because we don't want to have delusional expectations of positive outcomes.
[00:29:19.280 --> 00:29:23.920] We will always be disappointed and we will always then be dealing with negative emotions.
[00:29:23.920 --> 00:29:32.880] But there's also, I think, an equally detrimental pessimistic strategy where people are like, well, if I never expect happiness, then I'm never going to be disappointed.
[00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:36.080] And that colors their day in and out.
[00:29:36.080 --> 00:29:39.040] Hoping for a positive outcome is a good thing.
[00:29:39.440 --> 00:29:42.880] But constantly self-reflecting and asking yourself, Am I happy enough?
[00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:43.600] Am I happy enough?
[00:29:43.600 --> 00:29:44.480] Am I happy enough?
[00:29:44.480 --> 00:29:45.600] That's not a good thing.
[00:29:45.840 --> 00:29:53.280] And it seems to be that this drills down a little bit deeper into the actual processes that underlie where things fall apart.
[00:29:53.840 --> 00:29:58.160] It's not as easy as saying positive thinking is bad or positive thinking is good.
[00:29:58.160 --> 00:30:02.360] It's what are we doing along the way and what components of it are beneficial?
[00:29:59.600 --> 00:30:04.440] What components of it can be detrimental?
[00:30:04.760 --> 00:30:05.880] It's interesting.
[00:30:05.880 --> 00:30:06.280] All right.
[00:30:06.280 --> 00:30:07.400] Thank you, Kara.
[00:30:07.720 --> 00:30:10.520] Guys, what do you know about measuring blood pressure?
[00:30:10.520 --> 00:30:12.680] This is not something I don't think we've ever talked about on the show.
[00:30:13.080 --> 00:30:14.040] We've talked about it.
[00:30:14.040 --> 00:30:14.600] No.
[00:30:14.600 --> 00:30:16.760] You take one of those things, you wrap it around your head.
[00:30:16.840 --> 00:30:18.280] It's called a sphygnomanometer.
[00:30:18.440 --> 00:30:19.160] Squeeze the air thing.
[00:30:21.160 --> 00:30:25.080] I know that there's invasive and not invasive, which I learned today.
[00:30:26.040 --> 00:30:31.400] Well, when do you think, when was the first time somebody measured blood pressure?
[00:30:31.720 --> 00:30:33.080] The day I was born, no?
[00:30:33.080 --> 00:30:35.880] No, no, I'm talking about historically.
[00:30:36.440 --> 00:30:37.320] You mean in history?
[00:30:37.640 --> 00:30:41.000] Well, they had to know what it was in order to measure it.
[00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:41.560] Or did they?
[00:30:41.640 --> 00:30:44.680] They had to have some concept that there was pressure inside the artery.
[00:30:44.680 --> 00:30:45.160] In the vessel.
[00:30:45.240 --> 00:30:46.760] And that it was important.
[00:30:46.760 --> 00:30:49.000] Oh, then it was probably like 1833.
[00:30:49.080 --> 00:30:49.960] 1733.
[00:30:49.960 --> 00:30:50.520] 1733.
[00:30:50.600 --> 00:30:51.400] Wow, that's interesting.
[00:30:51.400 --> 00:30:53.240] And was it just based on listening?
[00:30:53.240 --> 00:30:53.720] Nope.
[00:30:53.720 --> 00:30:56.280] No, it was actually an estimation of blood pressure.
[00:30:56.280 --> 00:30:59.240] What they did, this is Sir Stephen Hales.
[00:30:59.240 --> 00:31:08.760] He introduced a brass pipe into a horse's leg artery, connected it to a glass column, and measured how high the blood rose.
[00:31:08.760 --> 00:31:11.720] Oh, eight feet three inches.
[00:31:11.720 --> 00:31:12.280] Wow, interesting.
[00:31:12.440 --> 00:31:15.960] And it also would then rise and fall with the beating of the heart.
[00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:22.440] So he identified that, yeah, there is high pressure inside the artery, and it fluctuates with time.
[00:31:22.440 --> 00:31:27.480] It fluctuates over time, you know, in time with the beating of the heart.
[00:31:27.480 --> 00:31:29.160] So that was the first time.
[00:31:29.160 --> 00:31:35.000] It took about 100 years, though, before the next advance.
[00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:45.000] In 1828, that was the first time a mercury manometer was used to actually produce a quantifiable measurement of blood pressure.
[00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:53.680] So that was actually the invasive measurement of blood pressure preceded the non-invasive measurement of blood pressure.
[00:31:53.680 --> 00:32:03.440] And then you could actually also connect that to what was called a chymograph in order to produce a tracing of blood pressure so you could follow it over time.
[00:32:03.760 --> 00:32:21.760] And then in 1855 was the first time somebody was able to estimate blood pressure non-invasively by compressing the artery using how much pressure did it take to compress the artery, basically, to stop the blood from flowing.
[00:32:21.760 --> 00:32:25.280] And this is what led to the sigmo manometer.
[00:32:26.320 --> 00:32:29.120] And by 1901, Dr.
[00:32:29.120 --> 00:32:34.320] von Rechlenhausen added the broad inflatable arm cuff.
[00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:40.000] So you basically had modern blood pressure measurement in the early 1900s.
[00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:48.000] 1901, you had the Sphigmo, and then a few years later, they figured out how to measure the diastolic pressure, the lower number, right?
[00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:52.720] So it wasn't just the higher number when the artery was totally obliterated.
[00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:58.240] You could listen to the blood vessel, to the sounds of blood flowing, and also detect the lower number, right?
[00:32:58.240 --> 00:33:00.000] The diastolic blood pressure.
[00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:06.960] And that's all by 1905, you basically had modern, both invasive and non-invasive blood pressure monitoring.
[00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:10.560] And little has changed in the last 120 years.
[00:33:10.560 --> 00:33:17.520] By 1905, then, did we also have a good understanding that blood pressure was a good indicator of heart health?
[00:33:17.520 --> 00:33:18.080] Yes.
[00:33:18.080 --> 00:33:18.480] Okay.
[00:33:18.800 --> 00:33:20.960] Yeah, it became pretty standard.
[00:33:20.960 --> 00:33:25.080] And also, low blood pressure is an indication of severe trauma or blood loss or whatever.
[00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:26.960] So, or heart failure.
[00:33:26.960 --> 00:33:35.800] So, yeah, it was obviously there's a lot to learn at that point in time, but yes, the basic concept of this is important for measuring cardiac function was there.
[00:33:36.440 --> 00:33:42.680] So, it's interesting that, you know, 120 years, not much really has changed in terms of measuring blood pressure.
[00:33:42.680 --> 00:33:47.720] We're still using cuffs and tubes putting it into the artery, right?
[00:33:48.040 --> 00:33:58.840] Well, this leads me to the news item that I'm going to talk about today: a new method for the non-invasive measurement of blood pressure.
[00:33:58.840 --> 00:34:00.200] And what do you think they use?
[00:34:00.600 --> 00:34:04.440] What is the basic technology, if you had to guess, if you didn't read the article?
[00:34:04.440 --> 00:34:05.480] Your iPhone.
[00:34:05.800 --> 00:34:06.360] No.
[00:34:06.840 --> 00:34:07.560] Phrenology.
[00:34:07.560 --> 00:34:08.440] No, it's not phrenology.
[00:34:08.680 --> 00:34:09.560] Tricorder.
[00:34:09.560 --> 00:34:10.360] They use a noose.
[00:34:10.600 --> 00:34:12.840] All right, so no serious guesses.
[00:34:14.920 --> 00:34:16.200] They use ultrasound, right?
[00:34:16.200 --> 00:34:18.520] So it's based on sound waves.
[00:34:19.320 --> 00:35:12.160] Don't they use ultrasound also to image vessels when they're having a hard time getting a so what they're doing is using first of all they use what they call acoustic stimulation sound waves right paired with ultrasound imaging so they're essentially looking at the resonance properties of the artery and then they had to figure out the physics of everything you know I'm not going to get into these weeds but they figured out the physics of you know how does the artery respond to the acoustic stimulation as measured by the ultrasound imaging and then you can calculate from that a real-time blood pressure inside that artery and it's they say that it creates an artery agnostic, which means it can work on any artery, and demographic agnostic, which means it could work on anybody.
[00:35:12.160 --> 00:35:17.040] Calibration-free, it does not have to be constantly recalibrated like some methods.
[00:35:17.040 --> 00:35:21.440] Non-invasive way of continuous blood pressure monitoring.
[00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:28.080] So it's not just a one-time blood pressure, it's a continuous trace of blood pressure, which is very useful.
[00:35:28.080 --> 00:35:38.000] That's like if you're in the intensive care unit or even just like in a step-down unit, not on a regular floor, what we call a floor bed in a hospital because we don't have to monitor it.
[00:35:38.240 --> 00:35:42.320] How long does it usually take to get a blood pressure reading from someone?
[00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:47.440] Well, if you're just doing like a non-invasive blood pressure cuff reading, you can get it in a minute, right?
[00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:47.920] It doesn't take any longer.
[00:35:48.080 --> 00:35:49.520] Yeah, but you have to just do it over.
[00:35:49.600 --> 00:35:53.200] But that's a one-time, and it hurts sometimes.
[00:35:53.200 --> 00:36:02.160] Yeah, and what we so like on the floor, we would have like the automatic cuff now, and like every minute or two minutes, it'll do another pressure.
[00:36:02.160 --> 00:36:07.040] And if you need it that frequently, and if you but in the ICU, you can be on continuous monitors.
[00:36:07.200 --> 00:36:10.320] On the ICU, you can have an arterial line, right?
[00:36:10.480 --> 00:36:18.800] We put in what we call an A-line, an arterial line, and then you hook that up to a monitor, and you can have a continuous blood pressure monitoring that way.
[00:36:18.800 --> 00:36:20.560] But, you know, that's only accurate, right?
[00:36:20.880 --> 00:36:29.280] It's more accurate, it's more continuous, but it does have to be calibrated, and it is only in arteries that you could stick a catheter into.
[00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:30.320] Yeah, it's invasive.
[00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:34.000] It's invasive, and it's not artery agnostic, as they say.
[00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:41.120] So this, they say, with this method, it's non-invasive, and it's better, and it could be any artery that you want to.
[00:36:41.520 --> 00:36:48.880] Which is sometimes very important, because sometimes you don't just need to know the systemic blood pressure, like what the overall blood pressure is.
[00:36:48.880 --> 00:36:52.320] You might want to know what the blood pressure is of a specific artery.
[00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:55.200] Yeah, you might want to know, how's their blood pressure in their foot?
[00:36:55.200 --> 00:36:55.600] Yeah, exactly.
[00:36:55.840 --> 00:36:57.600] Like, is it getting enough flow?
[00:36:57.600 --> 00:36:58.120] Yeah, exactly.
[00:36:58.280 --> 00:36:59.040] Oh, that's interesting.
[00:36:59.040 --> 00:36:59.960] I never even thought of that.
[00:36:59.960 --> 00:37:02.360] Or in the carotid artery going up to the brain or whatever.
[00:36:59.520 --> 00:37:07.000] Like, there might be specific subsets of the vascular system that you're more interested in.
[00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:14.440] Yeah, I'm really interested to see if this technology will take off and how quickly it will get incorporated into regular hospital use.
[00:37:14.440 --> 00:37:16.440] It seems really great.
[00:37:16.440 --> 00:37:16.840] The patients are going to be able to do that.
[00:37:17.080 --> 00:37:21.640] I think that would be awesome because then you might even be able to see it on the regular floor.
[00:37:21.640 --> 00:37:24.520] I mean, if it got cheap enough for continuous monitoring.
[00:37:24.760 --> 00:37:42.040] But I'll tell you, one of my favorite things to do in the ICU that I can't do when I'm rounding in or when I'm seeing patients on the main floor is when we do like really intense relaxation techniques like deep belly breathing or like really kind of focused mindfulness techniques, they can watch their blood pressure drop.
[00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:43.640] And it's really cool to see.
[00:37:43.640 --> 00:37:47.400] It's like a form of biofeedback, but we can't do it on the main floor.
[00:37:47.720 --> 00:37:52.200] Yeah, so yeah, I mean, I was, you know, definitely encouraged by this.
[00:37:52.200 --> 00:37:57.320] I think it's a great little gadget if it, again, if it all works out, but you know, it's looking good.
[00:37:57.880 --> 00:38:02.280] But looking back, it's like, wow, things really haven't changed too much in 100 years.
[00:38:02.280 --> 00:38:03.240] So this is like the first time.
[00:38:03.400 --> 00:38:05.880] Well, because like for the most part, right?
[00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:09.640] And I like, and there's some things I like about if something's not broken, why would you fix it?
[00:38:09.880 --> 00:38:14.760] I think a lot of technology is solving problems that don't exist, which is kind of annoying.
[00:38:14.760 --> 00:38:17.400] But this is cool because there is a real use for it.
[00:38:17.400 --> 00:38:21.800] Yeah, but this is something that was needed, a non-invasive way to continuously measure blood pressure.
[00:38:21.880 --> 00:38:24.040] It's not like we didn't know that we had this need.
[00:38:24.040 --> 00:38:26.600] It was just no one's been able to fill it before.
[00:38:26.600 --> 00:38:28.200] Yeah, it's very cool.
[00:38:28.200 --> 00:38:29.080] All right.
[00:38:29.080 --> 00:38:33.880] Bob, tell us about the first complex life to evolve on Earth.
[00:38:33.880 --> 00:38:48.800] So, guys, a new study suggests that complex life on Earth did not necessarily first arise 635 million years ago, as commonly believed, but may have made a staggering 2.1 billion years ago.
[00:38:49.120 --> 00:38:52.240] And so, what leads these researchers to believe that?
[00:38:52.240 --> 00:38:53.440] What could make them believe that?
[00:38:53.440 --> 00:38:57.200] And what happened to these proposed first Earth animals?
[00:38:57.200 --> 00:39:00.720] The paper was published in the journal Precambrian Research.
[00:39:00.720 --> 00:39:02.960] Sounds like a cool journal I'd like to check out.
[00:39:02.960 --> 00:39:04.400] Its lead author is Dr.
[00:39:04.400 --> 00:39:08.880] Ernest Chu Fru at Cardiff University School of Earth and Environmental Sciences.
[00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:16.720] The study's name is Hydrothermal Seawater Eutrophication Triggered Local Macrobiological Blah blah blah blah.
[00:39:16.720 --> 00:39:18.400] And more words.
[00:39:18.400 --> 00:39:22.400] So, what a fascinating possibility this paper presents.
[00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:24.480] But we need to start at the beginning, as usual.
[00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:28.960] So, when did life and complex life begin on Earth, according to the scientific consensus?
[00:39:28.960 --> 00:39:37.920] Fossil evidence put the earliest bacteria-like life around three and a half to potentially over 4.1 billion years ago.
[00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:42.080] And that's just the first potential evidence that we found.
[00:39:42.080 --> 00:39:46.640] I mean, clearly, it started and didn't fossilize in any way.
[00:39:46.640 --> 00:39:48.720] So, that's pretty fast.
[00:39:49.040 --> 00:39:56.080] Like, after Earth, yeah, we're basically learning as soon as Earth cooled enough, life just kind of like leaped into existence.
[00:39:56.080 --> 00:39:58.080] But the next stage took a little longer.
[00:39:58.080 --> 00:40:03.520] The first evidence of complex multicellular life appears to have begun 635 million years ago.
[00:40:03.520 --> 00:40:05.200] That's pretty much the consensus.
[00:40:05.200 --> 00:40:08.400] So, that was a hell of a long time between the two, right?
[00:40:08.400 --> 00:40:17.200] So, single-celled life took 2.8 to 3.7 billion years for these cells to hook up for the most consequential orgy the Earth has ever seen.
[00:40:17.200 --> 00:40:19.200] So, why did it take so long?
[00:40:19.520 --> 00:40:21.680] And there's lots of reasons for that.
[00:40:21.680 --> 00:40:30.280] One reason it took so long is that the proper nutrients just were not available to the single-celled life that was extant.
[00:40:29.920 --> 00:40:37.000] Oxygen was increasing at that time, but there wasn't enough to support larger organisms, is what scientists believe.
[00:40:37.240 --> 00:40:42.600] The other critical nutrient that people are maybe not so much aware of is phosphorus.
[00:40:42.600 --> 00:40:46.120] Phosphorus is absolutely critical to life on Earth.
[00:40:46.120 --> 00:40:49.800] Phosphorus is a key ingredient in DNA and RNA.
[00:40:49.800 --> 00:40:55.160] It was also probably critical to the prebiotic chemistry that eventually led to life on Earth.
[00:40:55.160 --> 00:40:59.400] Phosphorus is also the P in ATP, adenosine triphosphate.
[00:40:59.400 --> 00:41:02.120] That's the energy currency for all Earth life.
[00:41:02.120 --> 00:41:05.320] If you want to move, you're going to need some ATP.
[00:41:05.320 --> 00:41:07.960] Bottom line, full stop right there.
[00:41:07.960 --> 00:41:10.920] So, yeah, phosphorus is pretty important stuff.
[00:41:10.920 --> 00:41:18.760] So, if you track the rise of bioavailable oxygen and phosphorus in Earth's history, you find a huge increase 635 million years ago.
[00:41:18.760 --> 00:41:23.720] And that coincides, obviously, with the first solid evidence of multicellular life on Earth.
[00:41:23.720 --> 00:41:25.480] So, it's very easy to make that connection.
[00:41:25.480 --> 00:41:30.440] Like, oh, look, bioavailable oxygen and phosphorus really peaked here.
[00:41:30.440 --> 00:41:37.000] And, oh, look, multicellular, the first life, the first animals started arising at that time.
[00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:42.200] And these elements are obviously very important and critical.
[00:41:42.200 --> 00:41:45.720] So, yeah, so there is a strong link there, we believe.
[00:41:45.720 --> 00:41:49.800] So, why would anyone think that complex life began earlier than that?
[00:41:49.800 --> 00:41:57.960] And I'll cut to the chase because these researchers claim that there was an earlier localized spike of available oxygen and phosphorus.
[00:41:57.960 --> 00:41:59.880] But that's getting ahead of myself a little bit.
[00:42:00.120 --> 00:42:12.200] This all starts here in the Franceville Basin on the Atlantic coast of Central Africa, a continent that CARA loves, which contains unusual sedimentary rock.
[00:42:12.520 --> 00:42:15.600] In this rock, they found these weird structures.
[00:42:14.840 --> 00:42:18.240] They discovered this many years ago.
[00:42:18.400 --> 00:42:25.840] You know, I could not find the year these rocks were discovered, but it was the sense I get was you know 20, 30 years ago.
[00:42:25.840 --> 00:42:34.080] The individual duoconstructs were within this rock were semi-spherical with thinner, outer membranous edges, thinner edges.
[00:42:34.400 --> 00:42:37.360] They're small, about seven centimeters in size.
[00:42:37.360 --> 00:42:43.120] So it's actually hard to figure out, you know, what is what were these things?
[00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:44.720] Was it alive?
[00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:46.960] Was it never alive?
[00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:48.080] What was it?
[00:42:48.080 --> 00:42:51.840] And scientists go back and forth on what they think it was.
[00:42:51.840 --> 00:42:58.800] So we don't know for sure precisely what these things were, but if you want to imagine them, you know what they totally remind me of.
[00:42:58.800 --> 00:43:04.400] And Kara, I'm sure you remember the original series Star Trek episode, Operation Annihilate.
[00:43:04.400 --> 00:43:05.520] Operation Annihilate.
[00:43:05.520 --> 00:43:06.560] Now remember that one?
[00:43:06.560 --> 00:43:17.680] Those weird kind of pancake-shaped creatures that fly and they attack you and they attach to your back and they drive you and then you kind of go like literally crazy when they're attached to you and one lands on Spock.
[00:43:17.680 --> 00:43:18.400] Remember those?
[00:43:18.400 --> 00:43:19.200] I remember I created one.
[00:43:20.240 --> 00:43:20.880] I created one.
[00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:22.960] Yes, she remembers that.
[00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:25.600] I created one for my bridge.
[00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:29.200] For my Jim Kirk costume, I created one at a latex.
[00:43:29.200 --> 00:43:30.240] It was really cool.
[00:43:30.240 --> 00:43:40.480] So when these rocks were discovered, researchers were like, I don't know if this is a fossil or not, but I know that whatever this is, there's something interesting in here that we need to investigate further.
[00:43:40.480 --> 00:43:41.680] Absolutely, one way or the other.
[00:43:41.680 --> 00:43:51.440] And of course, you know, one possibility is incredibly amazing if it really was some sort of life that existed that far in the past.
[00:43:51.440 --> 00:43:57.840] But I mean, it's just, you know, you'll understand a little bit better after this next little section here.
[00:43:57.840 --> 00:43:59.480] So I'm going to go into detail.
[00:43:59.280 --> 00:44:03.160] So there was a central body that was surrounded by radial structures.
[00:44:03.480 --> 00:44:12.200] And other structures are described by scientists as convoluted tubes with a string of pearl shapes that ended in some flower-like shape.
[00:44:12.200 --> 00:44:17.800] So some scientists even describe them as being reminiscent of slime molds and amoebol organisms.
[00:44:18.280 --> 00:44:26.440] So some think that these are true fossils created by single-celled or even multicellular creatures some 2.1 billion years ago.
[00:44:26.440 --> 00:44:28.360] And of course, that would be extraordinary.
[00:44:28.360 --> 00:44:36.280] If that were true, oh my god, that would be Nobel Prizes and scientific craziness if they found complex life that far away.
[00:44:36.280 --> 00:44:38.040] But we really don't know.
[00:44:38.040 --> 00:44:39.880] Others say that they're not fossils at all.
[00:44:39.880 --> 00:44:43.800] They're pseudo-fossils, they say, of inorganic pyrites.
[00:44:43.800 --> 00:44:51.800] Some describe them as just these simple concretions, essentially hard masses created by precipitating minerals, okay?
[00:44:52.120 --> 00:44:55.720] And that's where this has stood for a number of years now.
[00:44:55.720 --> 00:44:58.680] Some think that this could be some form of early life.
[00:44:58.680 --> 00:45:02.840] Many think that this is not enough evidence and it's probably something that's not organic.
[00:45:02.840 --> 00:45:11.400] So without further evidence, it seems reasonable to conclude that these are more likely to be just complex geological structures formed in rock and that's it.
[00:45:11.400 --> 00:45:19.320] I mean, that's that's really, you can't be too, you know, you can't really just say, oh, it was alive, you know, without any more evidence.
[00:45:19.320 --> 00:45:24.120] But this latest evidence, though, may force a bit of a rethink on this.
[00:45:24.120 --> 00:45:32.840] Now, these researchers did a geochemical analysis of this sedimentary rock in that basin in Africa, and their inclusions are fascinating and pretty intense.
[00:45:32.840 --> 00:45:51.600] They say that what happened in that area over 2 billion years ago, two continents collided, and the subsequent underwater volcanic activity was so unusual that it created this unique nutrient-rich laboratory that let evolution essentially experiment with biological life like it never has before.
[00:45:51.920 --> 00:45:54.720] So, that's kind of an overview of what their conclusion is.
[00:45:54.880 --> 00:45:56.480] Geomicrobiologist Dr.
[00:45:56.480 --> 00:46:09.520] Chi Fru said: We think that the underwater volcanoes which followed the collision further restricted and even cut off this section of water from the global ocean to create a nutrient-rich, shallow marine inland sea.
[00:46:09.760 --> 00:46:24.240] He continues: This created a localized environment where cyanobacterial photosynthesis was abundant for an extended period of time, leading to the oxygenation of local seawater and the generation of a large food resource.
[00:46:24.640 --> 00:46:35.280] So, they're proposing that this continental collision and volcanic activity over 2 billion years ago formed a stable inland sea, which was nutrient-enriched with phosphorus.
[00:46:35.280 --> 00:46:38.560] The sea was like an oasis for photosynthetic bacteria.
[00:46:38.560 --> 00:46:41.840] They just kind of hung out, sunbathing with their margaritas.
[00:46:41.840 --> 00:46:51.360] Over time, this resulted in two critical things that complex life needed: oxygenated water and an abundance of phosphorus from the volcanism and tectonic activity.
[00:46:51.520 --> 00:46:57.920] Those are the two exact things that I said earlier were critical to complex organisms, multicellular life.
[00:46:57.920 --> 00:47:04.880] So, this is exactly the two components that we think were critical for complex life 635 million years ago.
[00:47:04.880 --> 00:47:15.840] And these researchers believe it happened first, potentially, in this localized area 2.1 billion years ago, appropriately enough in Africa, or what eventually became Africa.
[00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:28.560] Frou then says, This would have provided sufficient energy to promote an increase in body size and greater complex behavior observed in primitive, simple, animal-like life forms, such as those found in the fossils from this period.
[00:47:28.560 --> 00:47:38.120] So, this wasn't just an oasis for bacteria, it was a nutrient-rich laboratory for genetic tinkering, potentially creating the first animal life on the Earth.
[00:47:38.120 --> 00:47:40.040] Now, how fantastic would that be?
[00:47:40.200 --> 00:47:46.360] I really hope that they get even more evidence for this because this would really be an amazing discovery.
[00:47:46.360 --> 00:47:54.120] So, the next thing you might be wondering, though, is well, why did this biological renaissance fail, assuming it even existed, of course?
[00:47:54.120 --> 00:48:03.720] Now, there's no solid evidence for why, but perhaps I think, and some people are saying that that oasis created by plate tectonics and volcanism was too isolated.
[00:48:04.040 --> 00:48:10.280] It really was not pleasant on Earth, in most of the Earth, all over, not for complex life anyway.
[00:48:10.680 --> 00:48:13.400] It was the only place on Earth like it, probably.
[00:48:13.400 --> 00:48:17.160] There was no new influx of resources coming in.
[00:48:17.160 --> 00:48:22.680] This was an isolated area that was created through very special sequence of events.
[00:48:22.680 --> 00:48:24.360] So, nothing really new was coming in.
[00:48:24.360 --> 00:48:27.080] It was like a greenhouse in the winter, essentially.
[00:48:27.080 --> 00:48:39.640] So, for billions of more years after this event, the Earth as a whole was still inimical to multicellular life, and that prevented this amazing evolutionary experiment from taking a foothold globally.
[00:48:40.040 --> 00:48:40.920] That's what I think.
[00:48:41.400 --> 00:48:46.440] In this study, they don't really talk about that extensively at all, but that seems pretty likely to me.
[00:48:46.440 --> 00:48:58.200] If this happened, that it's just something that potentially happened and then just couldn't spread elsewhere because it was just too isolated, and the Earth was not a nice place for animals.
[00:48:58.200 --> 00:49:01.880] So, what probably happened was that they eventually ran out of resources and died out.
[00:49:02.120 --> 00:49:04.200] How sad is that to think about that?
[00:49:04.200 --> 00:49:05.800] If that's what happened, how sad.
[00:49:05.800 --> 00:49:11.560] You know, it's also not sad because then we wouldn't exist if they took over back then.
[00:49:11.560 --> 00:49:24.560] But then it's kind of sad again because imagine, imagine what that life could have been like here on Earth now with literally three billion more years of evolution under our belts.
[00:49:24.560 --> 00:49:25.840] I mean, what a thought.
[00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:34.000] What life, the diversity of life and what kind of life that may have evolved with billions of more years of evolutionary tinkering.
[00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:35.600] Incredible to conceive.
[00:49:35.600 --> 00:49:50.800] So really interesting, how fascinating to think that over 2 billion years ago, the Earth might have had, you know, its first real try at complex life, multicellular life, and it worked for like millennia potentially.
[00:49:50.800 --> 00:49:53.600] And then eventually, like, ah, sorry, can't finish this.
[00:49:53.600 --> 00:49:56.480] And it just kind of like just kind of like they all died out.
[00:49:56.480 --> 00:49:57.200] False start.
[00:49:57.200 --> 00:49:58.080] False start.
[00:49:58.080 --> 00:50:06.640] And finally, the environment, you know, around most of the Earth or much of the Earth, the nutrients were all there that were needed and all the other factors.
[00:50:06.640 --> 00:50:11.520] Everything was right now for that second try at complex life.
[00:50:11.520 --> 00:50:13.840] And it worked, which is pretty awesome.
[00:50:13.840 --> 00:50:14.800] But I hope this is true.
[00:50:14.800 --> 00:50:15.520] It might not be.
[00:50:15.520 --> 00:50:23.360] This is, you know, there's a lot of interesting speculation here, but there's no, you know, there's no home run, you know, like, oh boy, they really did it.
[00:50:23.360 --> 00:50:28.960] You know, the evidence is interesting and compelling, but it's not, you know, ironclad and like a done deal at all.
[00:50:28.960 --> 00:50:32.560] But I hope they investigate this even further because that would be pretty amazing.
[00:50:32.560 --> 00:50:32.880] All right.
[00:50:32.880 --> 00:50:33.760] Thanks, Bob.
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[00:51:37.640 --> 00:51:41.240] All right, Evan, give us an update on life on Venus.
[00:51:41.240 --> 00:51:49.240] Yes, back in September of 2020, I reported on a news item concerning the planet Venus and how there could be signatures of life.
[00:51:49.240 --> 00:51:50.120] Ooh.
[00:51:50.120 --> 00:52:01.160] Yeah, because back in June of 2017, using the James Clerk Maxwell Telescope in Hawaii, along with the Atacama Large Millimeter Array in Chile, Dr.
[00:52:01.160 --> 00:52:09.080] Jane Greaves and her team at Cardiff University were studying the atmosphere of Venus and they discovered something amazing.
[00:52:09.080 --> 00:52:19.720] As we know, we've talked about this many times on the show, specific molecules will absorb light coming through the clouds of an atmosphere of a planet at different characteristic wavelengths.
[00:52:19.720 --> 00:52:21.480] And through this process, Dr.
[00:52:21.480 --> 00:52:26.760] Greaves and her team detected phosphine, which was a very unexpected result.
[00:52:26.760 --> 00:52:28.040] Why unexpected?
[00:52:28.040 --> 00:52:33.960] Because the scientific understanding of phosphine here on Earth is that it's made only one of two ways.
[00:52:33.960 --> 00:52:36.920] Number one, artificially by human technology.
[00:52:36.920 --> 00:52:45.000] Number two, naturally by anaerobic bacteria, generally in things like, you know, rotting corpses, fecal matter, and worms.
[00:52:45.040 --> 00:52:45.520] Yuck.
[00:52:45.680 --> 00:52:50.880] Phosphine is comprised of one atom of phosphorus topping a base of three hydrogen atoms.
[00:52:50.880 --> 00:52:53.360] The chemical formula is pH3.
[00:52:53.360 --> 00:52:59.360] Phosphine gas is described by one scientist as, quote, not very pleasant.
[00:52:59.360 --> 00:53:05.760] Yeah, pure phosphine is odorless, but technical-grade samples smell like rotting fish.
[00:53:05.760 --> 00:53:09.120] It is toxic, and it is spontaneously flammable.
[00:53:09.120 --> 00:53:12.640] So, not the nicest material or substance out there.
[00:53:12.640 --> 00:53:23.520] Now, the team's announcement received considerable media attention at the time and led to a controversy that accumulated in rebukes from some in the scientific community.
[00:53:23.520 --> 00:53:35.040] Arguably, the sharpest criticism was leveled by the organizing committee of the International Astronomical Union, the IAU, their Commission F30 on Astrobiology.
[00:53:35.040 --> 00:53:41.600] They questioned the ethics of Greaves and her team over the manner in which the discovery was revealed.
[00:53:41.600 --> 00:53:50.720] Part of their argument was that the data that they obtained was very noisy, and there were these various algorithms that they used to reduce the data.
[00:53:50.720 --> 00:53:56.400] So, there's some question as to the reliability of that data that was ultimately pulled out of the signals.
[00:53:56.400 --> 00:54:13.200] But the other thing they did is they came out and said, well, quote, it's an ethical duty for any scientist to communicate with the media and the public with great scientific rigor and to be careful not to overstate any interpretation which will be irretrievably picked up by the press.
[00:54:13.200 --> 00:54:22.640] Adding that they want to remind everyone, that the relevant researchers need to understand how the press and the media behave before communicating with them.
[00:54:22.640 --> 00:54:33.880] So, they kind of, you know, give them the ruler on the back of the hand, you know, wrap the knuckles in a way saying, you know, you didn't handle this right, and you got to be careful about, you know, how the press and the media and everything is going to take this.
[00:54:34.120 --> 00:54:37.240] And so then there was backlash to that, right?
[00:54:37.240 --> 00:54:44.680] Where the IAU came under scrutiny for saying, you guys went too far kind of with your criticism in this regard.
[00:54:44.680 --> 00:54:50.360] So it kind of all became kind of a messy thing and kind of in its own way.
[00:54:50.360 --> 00:54:57.480] So what happened is they retracted their statement, the IAU, and they kind of replaced it with this.
[00:54:57.880 --> 00:55:08.360] They said that the observed pH 3 feature through the telescope data can be fully explained employing plausible mesospheric sulfur dioxide abundances.
[00:55:08.360 --> 00:55:18.440] And the identification of pH 3 with another tele, the other telescope that they used, the one out of Chile, should be considered invalid due to severe baseline calibration issues.
[00:55:18.440 --> 00:55:35.800] Okay, so they went really, they pulled back their criticism about the media and they replaced it with something that was, you know, more technical, basically saying that, you know, here are the reasons why you shouldn't have, you know, you shouldn't have brought it out in this way or said, you know, hey, there's a life signature, a possible life signature.
[00:55:35.800 --> 00:55:36.680] Even though they did.
[00:55:36.920 --> 00:55:46.680] They said in their paper, when this first came out, they said, even if confirmed, we emphasize that the detection of pH er is not robust evidence for life, only for anomalous and unexplained chemistry.
[00:55:46.680 --> 00:55:47.240] Okay.
[00:55:47.240 --> 00:55:49.640] So they feel that they hedged it enough, you know, Dr.
[00:55:49.640 --> 00:55:50.600] Greaves and her team.
[00:55:50.600 --> 00:55:52.280] So that was the controversy at the time.
[00:55:52.280 --> 00:55:54.360] But there's an update now.
[00:55:54.360 --> 00:56:02.600] Four years later, Venus and the data are getting another look, both in observation of prior records and a collection of new and improved data.
[00:56:02.600 --> 00:56:10.200] Greaves and her colleagues presented fresh evidence for an upcoming scientific paper at this year's Royal Astronomical Society meeting in England.
[00:56:10.200 --> 00:56:22.000] New observations potentially strengthen the past findings, hinting at the presence of biosignatures that, if confirmed, could mean life forms are able to thrive in the planet's harsh environment.
[00:56:22.320 --> 00:56:39.280] Greaves and her team succeeded in detecting phosphine again in deeper portions of the planet's atmosphere during observations, once again made with the James Clark Maxwell telescope, which had a new receiver installed in these past years on the telescope.
[00:56:39.280 --> 00:56:45.520] And now they have collected as much as 140 times more data than previous observation yielded.
[00:56:45.520 --> 00:56:49.440] And they include the additional detections of what phosphine.
[00:56:49.680 --> 00:57:01.600] Not only that, there's new evidence showing the presence of ammonia, which is another gas that, say, is the result of perhaps, you know, well, on Earth at least, you know, it's biological activity.
[00:57:01.840 --> 00:57:10.480] One scientist said that the presence of ammonia on Venus, if it can be confirmed, is more significant even than the discovery of the phosphine.
[00:57:10.480 --> 00:57:21.440] Greaves, in an interview with CNN, said: the exciting thing behind this would be if some kind of microbial life making the ammonia, because that would be a neat way for it to regulate its own environment.
[00:57:21.440 --> 00:57:32.720] It would make its environment much less acidic and much more survivable to the point it's only as acidic as some of the most extreme places on Earth, so not completely crazy.
[00:57:33.040 --> 00:57:38.240] Also went on to say there are many significant unknowns about the Venusian surface and atmosphere.
[00:57:38.240 --> 00:57:45.120] Even a gold standard discovery of two bio-associated molecules is not evidence that life is extant.
[00:57:45.440 --> 00:57:50.640] So, again, you know, kind of hammering that again, saying, like, no, this is not evidence of life.
[00:57:50.640 --> 00:57:53.120] We're just saying this is what we've discovered.
[00:57:53.120 --> 00:57:57.280] We have the, you know, it's saying it's phosphine, it's saying it's ammonia.
[00:57:57.280 --> 00:57:59.440] We need more data.
[00:57:59.440 --> 00:58:02.600] And there will be attempts and there will be opportunities for more data.
[00:58:02.840 --> 00:58:12.600] They say there are some limitations with these Earth ground-based observations, but in the future, we're going to have stuff that is not ground-based.
[00:58:12.600 --> 00:58:24.360] NASA's Deep Atmosphere Venus Investigation of Noble Gases Chemistry and Imaging, which is DAVINCI, the Da Vinci mission.
[00:58:24.360 --> 00:58:28.920] It will dispatch a probe into Venus's harsh environment and measure its atmosphere.
[00:58:28.920 --> 00:58:30.600] This happens in 2029.
[00:58:30.600 --> 00:58:32.200] It's on schedule for that.
[00:58:32.200 --> 00:58:39.560] Also, the European Space Agency's Jupiter Icy Moons Explorer is going to pass close to Venus next year.
[00:58:39.560 --> 00:58:45.720] It's equipped with instruments that could potentially obtain useful data that may complement the finding by Dr.
[00:58:45.720 --> 00:58:47.800] Greaves and her colleagues.
[00:58:47.800 --> 00:58:55.000] So, Venus is back in the news again, and it's a continuing story, an evolving story.
[00:58:55.000 --> 00:58:57.960] It's by no means dead.
[00:58:58.280 --> 00:59:10.360] Yeah, I mean, I do like how it showcases the scientific process here and how scientists at least try to be very circumspect, you know, and very humble in their presentation of their data.
[00:59:10.360 --> 00:59:17.080] And even when they color just a little bit out of the lines, as you said, they get wrapped on the knuckles, even if it was a little heavy-handed.
[00:59:17.080 --> 00:59:20.600] It's still like, you know, we have to be very careful how we communicate to the public.
[00:59:20.600 --> 00:59:30.440] You can't throw out the word life, you know, without understanding how the press is going to pick up on that and use it and distort the actual science here.
[00:59:30.840 --> 00:59:36.120] And then people are left with the impression that all those scientists said there was life on Mars and on Venus and they said there isn't.
[00:59:36.120 --> 00:59:37.240] They don't know what they're talking about.
[00:59:37.240 --> 00:59:39.240] You know, that's what it leads to.
[00:59:39.640 --> 00:59:49.840] But at the same time, this is genuinely exciting, although we don't know what it means, and it may mean nothing, or it may just be, oh, yeah, there's some interesting chemistry happening on Venus, but there's nothing to do with life.
[00:59:44.840 --> 00:59:50.000] Right.
[00:59:50.240 --> 00:59:52.800] So we have to just, yeah, just wait for more evidence.
[00:59:53.120 --> 00:59:53.520] Well, nothing.
[00:59:53.680 --> 00:59:56.720] In another four or five years, we'll probably have another update on this one.
[00:59:56.720 --> 00:59:58.400] Yep, yep, yep, yep.
[00:59:58.720 --> 00:59:59.200] All right.
[00:59:59.200 --> 01:00:00.080] Thanks, Evan.
[01:00:00.080 --> 01:00:00.480] Thanks.
[01:00:00.640 --> 01:00:02.560] All right, Jay, it's who's that noisy time?
[01:00:02.560 --> 01:00:03.200] All right, guys.
[01:00:03.200 --> 01:00:05.360] Last week I played This Noisy.
[01:00:13.360 --> 01:00:18.560] Now, if you remember, I told you that the rhythm of the noise is meaningless.
[01:00:19.360 --> 01:00:21.280] I got a ton of guesses on this one.
[01:00:21.280 --> 01:00:25.920] This week, I'm definitely mostly picking people in the order that they come in, just to be fair.
[01:00:25.920 --> 01:00:30.480] Like, if someone answers before somebody else, like, I give them a little higher priority.
[01:00:30.800 --> 01:00:35.920] But I do sometimes pick out ones that came in days later if they're really interesting.
[01:00:35.920 --> 01:00:43.280] So, this person, Hunter Richards, wrote in and said, I'm not a gun person by any stretch, but this sounds like an airsoft rifle being fired.
[01:00:43.280 --> 01:00:48.480] He says he can hear birds in the background, so he thinks that it's basically at a target range.
[01:00:48.480 --> 01:00:58.080] So, I did not hear birds in the background, and if they are there, this is just another example of me losing my hearing because I did not hear anything in the background there.
[01:00:58.080 --> 01:01:05.840] Not a correct answer, but I think I've heard airsoft rifles being fired, and there is a similarity there, so it was a good guess.
[01:01:05.840 --> 01:01:15.040] Another listener named Candace Dennison wrote in, and Candace said, Longtime listener, first-time guesser, totally sounds like the recoil of water weapons.
[01:01:15.040 --> 01:01:19.280] You know, that squeaky sound it makes after shooting, and it's sucking in more water.
[01:01:19.280 --> 01:01:25.360] I have extensively used water weapons, and uh, yeah, they make different kinds of noises.
[01:01:25.360 --> 01:01:27.200] I could see one making a similar noise to that.
[01:01:27.200 --> 01:01:29.200] Not correct, but not a horrible guess.
[01:01:29.200 --> 01:01:31.480] Keely Hill writes in, Hi, James.
[01:01:29.760 --> 01:01:36.120] I guess that this week's noisy is someone shooting a five-gallon metal jar with a paintball gun.
[01:01:36.280 --> 01:01:40.120] Now, I've done very similar things to that, and I've heard similar sounds to that.
[01:01:40.120 --> 01:01:42.680] And again, another good guess, but not correct.
[01:01:42.680 --> 01:01:46.520] Alan Champion writes in, Is that a pogo stick?
[01:01:47.160 --> 01:01:51.320] And there's a big spring in a pogo stick, so they could make a weird noise like that.
[01:01:51.320 --> 01:01:52.280] Not correct.
[01:01:52.280 --> 01:01:55.560] I have two people I'd like to mention as the winner for this week.
[01:01:55.720 --> 01:02:06.120] The first person that wrote in, Cameron Cherry, said, Why oh, why did I wait so long to listen to today's episode when it's one of the two times I've been certain of exactly who that noisy is?
[01:02:06.120 --> 01:02:10.760] I don't know why this person is complaining because this is me, because they were the first one to answer.
[01:02:11.240 --> 01:02:13.720] But oh well, I'm sure many people will get this one.
[01:02:13.720 --> 01:02:22.200] But it's the sound you hear when you clap your hands in front of the famous Chitsunitsa temple in the Yucatan Peninsula in Mexico.
[01:02:22.440 --> 01:02:29.080] So, what the local tour guides do is they'll tell you a story that it was specifically engineered to make that sound.
[01:02:29.080 --> 01:02:31.400] It's like the sound of a local bird call and all that.
[01:02:31.400 --> 01:02:34.280] I don't know how verified that is or not, but that is the sound.
[01:02:34.280 --> 01:02:42.920] If you clap your hands, the sound is reflected off of the stepped pyramid temple that they have there, and it makes this sound.
[01:02:43.080 --> 01:02:47.400] I was there actually, and I heard that sound in person, by the way, and it is real.
[01:02:47.400 --> 01:02:54.600] Here it is.
[01:02:54.600 --> 01:03:00.040] So, that's the guy clapping, and that's the second sound, the sharper sound is the echo.
[01:03:00.040 --> 01:03:00.840] Very cool.
[01:03:00.840 --> 01:03:06.360] Another person that wrote in named Dorothy Bullard said she's a longtime listener.
[01:03:06.600 --> 01:03:10.520] This week's noisy sounds like the clap echo effect of the Chitsunitsa pyramid.
[01:03:10.520 --> 01:03:12.120] Yeah, so she was correct as well.
[01:03:12.120 --> 01:03:13.960] I had two correct guesses this week.
[01:03:13.960 --> 01:03:14.960] So, thank you guys for that.
[01:03:14.960 --> 01:03:16.160] That was a lot of fun.
[01:03:14.680 --> 01:03:18.320] That's a really cool place to visit.
[01:03:18.640 --> 01:03:24.960] And if you ever are in that location, I swam in an underground, what would you call this?
[01:03:24.960 --> 01:03:31.360] It was like a giant cavern that had incredible spring water in it that you could pay to go swim in.
[01:03:31.360 --> 01:03:34.800] And I just remember doing that and thinking it was amazing.
[01:03:34.800 --> 01:03:38.080] So just a very cool part of the country to visit.
[01:03:38.080 --> 01:03:40.480] I have a new noisy for you guys this week.
[01:03:40.480 --> 01:03:44.400] This noisy was sent in by a listener named Jonathan Sadler.
[01:03:44.400 --> 01:03:45.840] Take a listen.
[01:04:01.520 --> 01:04:08.240] If you guys think you know what this week's noisy is or you heard something cool, email me at wtn at the skepticsguy.org.
[01:04:08.240 --> 01:04:11.360] So this is your last chance this week as you hear this.
[01:04:11.360 --> 01:04:16.640] If you're listening to it, you know, as of like, this will come out what, on the 10th, Steve?
[01:04:16.640 --> 01:04:18.560] This episode we're recording right now?
[01:04:18.560 --> 01:04:18.960] Yeah.
[01:04:19.440 --> 01:04:19.920] Yeah, 10th.
[01:04:20.160 --> 01:04:21.200] 10th, yes.
[01:04:21.200 --> 01:04:30.560] So if you're listening to this, you know, on the 10th and before the 17th and 18th of August, you could still buy a ticket.
[01:04:30.560 --> 01:04:34.320] Well, actually, just the 18th, 17th, because the 18th is sold out the 17th.
[01:04:34.320 --> 01:04:37.120] We still have tickets available for the extravaganza.
[01:04:37.280 --> 01:04:39.760] That's the 2:30 show, 2:30 p.m.
[01:04:39.920 --> 01:04:42.880] show on Saturday the 17th.
[01:04:43.040 --> 01:04:46.160] If you want information on that, you can go to the skepticsguy.org.
[01:04:46.160 --> 01:04:47.040] We're packing up.
[01:04:47.040 --> 01:04:48.400] We're super excited, guys.
[01:04:48.640 --> 01:04:49.520] We're on our way.
[01:04:49.520 --> 01:04:54.240] Steve and I did our preliminary talk about swag today.
[01:04:54.240 --> 01:05:02.840] Ian and I did all of our pre-tech packing and checklist and just going through everything, getting into extreme details now.
[01:05:02.840 --> 01:05:03.800] Super excited.
[01:04:59.760 --> 01:05:05.720] The SGU's 1000th episode.
[01:05:06.040 --> 01:05:17.720] If you're a patron of the SGU, if you're a paying patron of the SGU, at the $5 level or higher, you will get a free live stream of the 1000th show as it happens.
[01:05:17.720 --> 01:05:19.400] As it happens in real time.
[01:05:19.400 --> 01:05:21.000] That's called a live stream, Carrie.
[01:05:21.080 --> 01:05:21.880] Ever heard of those?
[01:05:21.880 --> 01:05:25.800] Yeah, they're live and they are streams that happen live.
[01:05:25.800 --> 01:05:26.600] Yes.
[01:05:26.600 --> 01:05:28.360] So two quick things, guys.
[01:05:28.680 --> 01:05:31.320] We are coming up on our 1000th show.
[01:05:31.320 --> 01:05:44.120] If you feel that the work that we do here at the SGU and the 20-year legacy that we have behind us, if you feel like that's valuable and you'd like to help us continue doing the work that we do, please consider becoming a patron.
[01:05:44.120 --> 01:05:48.760] You can go to patreon.com forward slash skepticsguide.
[01:05:48.760 --> 01:05:53.720] I would like to thank everyone who's been listening to us, even for a short amount of time.
[01:05:53.720 --> 01:05:57.960] We really do appreciate everyone that puts the time in to listen to the show.
[01:05:57.960 --> 01:06:07.960] And we really do hope that we're having an effect on some of your lives to help you think more clearly and get the resources you need to find out what the truth actually is, because the truth is out there.
[01:06:07.960 --> 01:06:10.120] You just have to know how to look for it.
[01:06:10.120 --> 01:06:16.120] Yeah, and most importantly, you know, we want people to lead loving and fulfilling lives.
[01:06:16.120 --> 01:06:24.520] And it's funny, you know, like this scientific pursuit of critical thinking has had a dramatic effect on my life.
[01:06:24.760 --> 01:06:29.080] It's helped me become a happier person in my life in so many ways.
[01:06:29.080 --> 01:06:30.200] It's hard to describe.
[01:06:30.680 --> 01:06:39.560] It's just an exercise in thinking that actually in my in my experience, has helped me just become a much better version of who I am.
[01:06:39.560 --> 01:06:43.240] And I really appreciate the fact that we've been doing this together, guys.
[01:06:43.240 --> 01:08:26.200] And I really do look forward to the fact that we could have we could have another 10 or 20 years ahead of us of doing it I don't plan on stopping anytime soon we're gonna stop until you we drop right Steve don't stop till we drop all right thank you Jay just one quick feedback before we go on to our interview we do have a great interview with Forrest Valky coming up but first during my news item last week I was talking briefly about the differences between alternating current and direct current you guys remember that and I pointed out that the primary advantage of AC over DC is that it you can step it up to high voltage and it has a much less loss when transmitted over long distances but a lot of what we do with electricity including solar panels and electric car batteries is DC and there have been some at least thinking about I don't know if they're full proposals but exploring the notion of what would happen if we had a DC infrastructure we just went all DC would that integrate better with a world where we have most homes generating power with solar panels and driving EV cars and I pointed out that the ability to transmit electricity long distances using DC has actually improved with modern technology so that advantage of AC is not as stark as it used to be so anyway I just threw that out there as sort of a thought experiment several electrical engineers emailed us to point out that there's another advantage of AC over DC, which may not be mitigated by recent advances in DC technology, or at least not sufficiently.
[01:08:26.200 --> 01:08:32.520] And that is that it's easier to convert the voltage in AC.
[01:08:32.520 --> 01:08:43.240] And that not only is when you're transmitting it and when you're transmitting it to like a residential home or whatever, but also to individual appliances.
[01:08:43.240 --> 01:08:49.240] You could adjust the voltage to what the appliance needs much more easily than with DC current.
[01:08:49.400 --> 01:08:59.160] So one engineer even speculated that even if we were starting from scratch today, we still might decide to go with an AC system for that reason.
[01:08:59.640 --> 01:09:07.480] But yes, you can convert the voltage in DC, just that the equipment to do so is much bigger and I guess more expensive.
[01:09:07.720 --> 01:09:10.280] But I wonder how long that will be the case.
[01:09:10.280 --> 01:09:17.240] You know, if we've made so much advances in that, that that's an assessment of the technology as it is today.
[01:09:17.240 --> 01:09:31.320] I wonder if there were a concerted effort to design and build and advance like a DC infrastructure, if that advantage of AC could also be overcome or at least mitigated to the point that the advantages would be better.
[01:09:31.320 --> 01:09:32.120] I don't know.
[01:09:32.440 --> 01:09:33.640] It's interesting to think about.
[01:09:33.640 --> 01:09:41.640] But those are the two main things, the differences between AC and DC in terms of the infrastructures.
[01:09:41.960 --> 01:09:44.600] And again, it's always more complicated than you think.
[01:09:44.600 --> 01:09:47.240] I'm sure there's also other considerations as well.
[01:09:47.960 --> 01:10:03.560] It was mainly just a way of talking about the differences between the two and the fact that the infrastructure that we're moving towards is we have an AC backbone, but we have DC power being generated by solar panels and DC power being stored in our EVs.
[01:10:03.880 --> 01:10:07.640] And anyway, we'll be interested to see where it all goes.
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[01:12:38.680 --> 01:12:41.720] All right, well, let's go on with our interview.
[01:12:46.520 --> 01:12:49.320] We are joined now by Forrest Valkai.
[01:12:49.320 --> 01:12:51.080] Forrest, welcome to The Skeptics Guide.
[01:12:51.080 --> 01:12:52.280] Thank you so much for having me.
[01:12:52.280 --> 01:12:57.160] So, you are a fellow science communicator and very active on social media.
[01:12:57.160 --> 01:12:59.000] Tell us a little bit about what you do.
[01:12:59.000 --> 01:13:03.560] Yeah, so I'm a biologist by training, got a handful of degrees in biology.
[01:13:03.560 --> 01:13:08.200] I really love it because it's like the pinnacle of all science, in my opinion.
[01:13:08.200 --> 01:13:16.600] You know, they say like everything relates back to chemistry, but you have to have all of the sciences together in order to make biology happen, you know?
[01:13:16.600 --> 01:13:21.480] And it just gets me so geeked up and excited, and I just want to share that with the world.
[01:13:21.480 --> 01:13:27.800] I want to make people fall in love with the universe that they live in and learn to love science and themselves and each other.
[01:13:27.800 --> 01:13:35.800] So, that's long and short what I do: I go out and learn way too much stuff, and then I go and spew it on the internet.
[01:13:35.800 --> 01:13:37.480] Yeah, how long have you been doing that for?
[01:13:37.480 --> 01:13:40.040] I've been doing it on the internet for four years.
[01:13:40.040 --> 01:13:42.960] I was an informal science educator for about 10 years.
[01:13:42.960 --> 01:13:51.520] Schools and summer camps and colleges and libraries and universities and whatever would hire me to come out and do classes, workshops, assemblies, whatever the case may be.
[01:13:51.840 --> 01:13:54.480] I worked for a bunch of education companies doing that for a while.
[01:13:54.480 --> 01:13:54.960] Cool.
[01:13:54.960 --> 01:14:04.560] And then I kind of got to a point where I realized that I could make something better than what the companies were asking me to produce.
[01:14:04.560 --> 01:14:13.920] And so I started doing it on my own and I went back to school and actually earned my way into doing this on my own terms and in my own way.
[01:14:13.920 --> 01:14:30.160] That's where the handle renegade science teacher came from, which is something that I still use on TikTok, is because I live in Oklahoma and I would get all sorts of heat for teaching things like evolution and the age of the earth and climate change and other science things that people had questions about.
[01:14:30.160 --> 01:14:38.320] And so I wanted to do it my way and I wanted to teach in a way that I knew would actually really make a serious impact for people and change their lives.
[01:14:38.320 --> 01:14:40.880] You're like the Jack Bauer of science communication?
[01:14:40.880 --> 01:14:41.440] Sure.
[01:14:41.760 --> 01:14:43.680] I'll have to find out what that is.
[01:14:44.000 --> 01:14:44.720] Is it right?
[01:14:44.720 --> 01:14:44.880] Really?
[01:14:45.040 --> 01:14:45.760] 24, baby.
[01:14:45.840 --> 01:14:46.480] 24.
[01:14:47.520 --> 01:14:48.160] Oh my God.
[01:14:48.160 --> 01:14:50.320] Is that a dated reference already?
[01:14:50.320 --> 01:14:50.800] Yeah.
[01:14:51.360 --> 01:14:54.320] I don't know if it's dad or he's just very dumb.
[01:14:55.280 --> 01:14:56.720] No, it's a little dated.
[01:14:56.720 --> 01:14:57.600] I'm looking it up.
[01:14:57.840 --> 01:14:59.120] I used 24.
[01:14:59.120 --> 01:15:01.840] Jack Bauer, he did things his own way, didn't take anything.
[01:15:01.920 --> 01:15:02.480] He forsaved.
[01:15:03.280 --> 01:15:03.680] Okay.
[01:15:03.680 --> 01:15:05.920] Is it a show about counterterrorism?
[01:15:06.160 --> 01:15:08.160] How are you drawing this line?
[01:15:09.280 --> 01:15:15.200] Because the joke is that Jack Bauer basically always does things his own way and doesn't listen to authority or anything.
[01:15:15.360 --> 01:15:18.640] I'm a loose cannon teacher who's ready to bloom.
[01:15:18.640 --> 01:15:19.200] It was awesome.
[01:15:19.280 --> 01:15:19.840] It was a choice.
[01:15:19.840 --> 01:15:20.240] That's for sure.
[01:15:20.240 --> 01:15:20.640] Oh, yeah.
[01:15:20.640 --> 01:15:23.040] 2001 to 2010.
[01:15:23.360 --> 01:15:24.480] Oh, absolutely.
[01:15:24.480 --> 01:15:26.960] Oh, and then something else in 2014.
[01:15:26.960 --> 01:15:27.200] Yeah.
[01:15:27.280 --> 01:15:27.760] I thought that was a long time ago.
[01:15:27.840 --> 01:15:28.680] Yeah, it's a dated direction.
[01:15:29.160 --> 01:15:29.720] Not that long ago.
[01:15:28.640 --> 01:15:32.760] Steve, 2001 is 23 years ago.
[01:15:29.120 --> 01:15:34.760] Not that long ago.
[01:15:29.520 --> 01:15:36.600] 2014 is only 10 years ago.
[01:15:37.880 --> 01:15:38.440] A decade.
[01:15:39.240 --> 01:15:40.760] This millennium.
[01:15:42.040 --> 01:15:45.240] Napster was still a thing in 2001.
[01:15:45.560 --> 01:15:49.320] Have you guys seen those t-shirts that say, like, be patient with me?
[01:15:49.320 --> 01:15:51.320] I'm from the 1900s.
[01:15:51.320 --> 01:15:51.720] Yeah.
[01:15:52.360 --> 01:15:57.160] You want to listen to some turn-of-the-century music like Green Day?
[01:15:57.880 --> 01:16:00.520] I was just at the Green Day show two nights ago.
[01:16:00.520 --> 01:16:01.800] Oh, you mentioned that.
[01:16:01.800 --> 01:16:03.080] They're still touring?
[01:16:03.960 --> 01:16:05.640] 55,000 sold out.
[01:16:05.640 --> 01:16:05.800] Yep.
[01:16:05.960 --> 01:16:06.360] New York.
[01:16:06.520 --> 01:16:07.400] I'm mad jealous.
[01:16:07.400 --> 01:16:08.520] It was awesome.
[01:16:08.520 --> 01:16:13.080] So, Forrest, tell us a little bit about your science communication style.
[01:16:13.080 --> 01:16:15.880] What is your philosophy of communicating?
[01:16:15.880 --> 01:16:28.440] So when we're talking about pedagogy, I really stick to, and I'm going to grossly oversimplify these, kind of like a positivism, progressivism, and critical approaches.
[01:16:28.440 --> 01:16:33.960] So like positivism being just generally the idea that there are facts to be known.
[01:16:33.960 --> 01:16:42.200] There is an objective universe out there, and like there's some really, really, really cool stuff that you can go grab that isn't really so much open to interpretation.
[01:16:42.200 --> 01:16:48.680] We can talk about what you do with the facts, but we can't talk about whether or not you agree with certain facts.
[01:16:48.840 --> 01:16:59.640] Progressivism being more like question-based learning, audience-focused learning, like helping people to be brought into the conversation rather than talking at them.
[01:16:59.640 --> 01:17:17.200] And then that leads to critical theory, which is generally just the idea that a person's social life, economic life, political life, gendered life, religious life, whatever, like all different parts of a person are united and you can't separate them from their educational life.
[01:17:17.360 --> 01:17:32.480] And so, trying to meet people where they are and speak to them in ways that matter, about things that matter, showing them why learning about cell theory is actually really important for literally every person and how it has unique applications for you and your life right now.
[01:17:32.480 --> 01:17:35.520] Actually, today, it's not just something you read in a book.
[01:17:35.520 --> 01:17:53.760] And also, with those approaches combined, the main thing that I'm trying to do is show people that science isn't some secret tome of knowledge on a high shelf that's only accessible to old white dudes with big white beards and long white coats, and that they have to earn their right to be able to access this.
[01:17:54.160 --> 01:18:00.240] Science is all around you all the time, right in front of you, and it's always going to be there, it always has been there.
[01:18:00.240 --> 01:18:05.760] And all you have to do is learn how to read the writing on the world that you live in.
[01:18:05.760 --> 01:18:12.800] And so, trying to make it personal and make it real and make it accessible and make it fun is really my main goal.
[01:18:12.800 --> 01:18:20.400] And I do that by being a generally weird person and just geeking out about things that get me out of bed in the world.
[01:18:20.640 --> 01:18:22.800] You've been asked that question before, haven't you?
[01:18:22.800 --> 01:18:24.960] Like, what is my teaching style all about?
[01:18:25.280 --> 01:18:25.840] Yeah.
[01:18:25.840 --> 01:18:30.960] Well, my first degree was in education, so I got a little bit prepared for it, but not that much.
[01:18:31.600 --> 01:18:36.960] Yeah, I hear a little bit of education speak in there in your answer.
[01:18:37.280 --> 01:18:47.760] So, I do notice on your like your description of your approach is that you include skepticism in your science literacy.
[01:18:47.760 --> 01:18:50.480] So, tell us about that a little bit.
[01:18:50.720 --> 01:18:52.000] Why do you think that's important?
[01:18:52.000 --> 01:18:52.920] It's important.
[01:18:53.000 --> 01:18:53.920] Assuming it is.
[01:18:54.120 --> 01:18:57.520] No, yeah, funny enough, it's quite important.
[01:18:57.680 --> 01:19:16.520] And the main reason is because you can, it takes two seconds to get onto TikTok and look up body hacks or health secrets that they don't want you to know and see some person talking about how when you eat regular salt, it actually takes the nutrients away from your body.
[01:19:16.520 --> 01:19:25.080] And that's why you need to eat only my specific brand of Himalayan whatever whale salt thing that I make in my kitchen.
[01:19:26.440 --> 01:19:27.320] Mountain whales.
[01:19:27.320 --> 01:19:29.320] Yes, those mountain whales.
[01:19:29.320 --> 01:19:30.120] You know them.
[01:19:30.120 --> 01:19:33.720] And those types of things are so prevalent.
[01:19:33.720 --> 01:19:36.440] And there's so much misinformation out there.
[01:19:36.440 --> 01:19:47.800] And especially when you are either completely at the very beginning of your educational journey or if you have never gotten the opportunity to embark on one.
[01:19:48.360 --> 01:20:10.280] If you stopped learning science out of high school or if you are just starting to get interested in science, it's really, really easy for somebody to throw some big words around or have a doctor in front of their name and for you to believe everything they say and to not know how to critically think about things that are above your pay grade.
[01:20:10.280 --> 01:20:11.960] And so you see this a lot.
[01:20:12.680 --> 01:20:28.680] I remember one time, I think it was last year, there was this dude on TikTok who was claiming to be a health expert who was talking about how no one should take antibiotics because antibiotics kill all cells in your body.
[01:20:28.680 --> 01:20:33.800] And when you take antibiotics, you're more sick afterwards than when you started taking them.
[01:20:33.800 --> 01:20:36.760] And his proof was that that's where fevers and stuff come from.
[01:20:36.760 --> 01:20:38.840] And like, those are all these symptoms of illness.
[01:20:38.840 --> 01:20:42.840] And also, viruses are just your own cells that are being purged from your body.
[01:20:42.840 --> 01:20:49.440] And that's why we have flu season, because all humans are naturally evolutionarily synced up to purge our cells at a certain time of month.
[01:20:49.440 --> 01:20:50.400] There is no viruses.
[01:20:44.920 --> 01:20:51.680] It's just your own cells at your body.
[01:20:51.920 --> 01:20:53.680] Just all this insane stuff.
[01:20:53.680 --> 01:21:01.760] And when you look through his comment sections, it's all these people who are like, I have a chronic illness and I'm not getting the answers I want from my doctor.
[01:21:01.760 --> 01:21:06.560] And you're the first person who's telling me these things that sound so revolutionary.
[01:21:06.560 --> 01:21:07.680] Please help me.
[01:21:07.680 --> 01:21:09.440] How do I treat my cancer?
[01:21:09.440 --> 01:21:11.600] How do I treat my fibromyalgia?
[01:21:11.600 --> 01:21:14.000] How do I treat my atherosclerosis?
[01:21:14.000 --> 01:21:15.360] How do I teach whatever?
[01:21:15.920 --> 01:21:21.200] Because they're frustrated and disillusioned with the medical industrial complex.
[01:21:21.200 --> 01:21:27.360] And now you have this guy speaking with such confidence in a bunch of big words that they don't understand, and they're buying into it.
[01:21:27.360 --> 01:21:33.040] And so not being skeptical, and even it's not just to not know everything about biology.
[01:21:33.040 --> 01:21:35.920] It's to not be skeptical is a public health risk.
[01:21:35.920 --> 01:21:39.200] It puts you and the people around you in harm's way.
[01:21:39.520 --> 01:21:53.920] If I can ramble a little bit further, it's what you see with COVID misinformation, vaccine misinformation, mask misinformation, people talking about masks building up CO2 and vaccines have mRNA and you can't, you don't want mRNA in your body, you know?
[01:21:53.920 --> 01:22:03.680] And it's like, dude, if you don't have to know the science, if you knew how to ask good questions, you would be able to tear this stuff apart.
[01:22:03.680 --> 01:22:15.840] And so, yeah, skepticism is really important to me because it's a lot easier to teach somebody to just ask somebody how they know what they know than it is to teach them about, you know, what an endoplasmic reticulum does.
[01:22:15.840 --> 01:22:17.120] Yeah, all of science.
[01:22:17.600 --> 01:22:18.160] Exactly.
[01:22:18.160 --> 01:22:18.560] Yeah.
[01:22:18.880 --> 01:22:29.640] Yeah, I think we learned that lesson the hard way over the last 30, 40 years that the knowledge deficit approach of just giving people information doesn't work for most things.
[01:22:27.920 --> 01:22:32.440] It works for some things, but it doesn't work for most things.
[01:22:29.440 --> 01:22:35.640] And you have to, it has to be in the context of critical thinking.
[01:22:35.960 --> 01:22:38.120] Otherwise, you know, as you say.
[01:22:38.120 --> 01:22:46.760] And what's interesting is that if you people increase their science knowledge, it doesn't decrease their belief in nonsense or pseudoscience until you...
[01:22:46.760 --> 01:22:47.800] It makes them more confident.
[01:22:47.800 --> 01:22:53.320] Yeah, it just makes them more confident in their wrong beliefs until they get to like a graduate level.
[01:22:53.320 --> 01:23:00.360] Like unless you have a PhD in science, it doesn't help you not believe in nonsense, which is really interesting.
[01:23:00.360 --> 01:23:01.000] Me sitting there.
[01:23:01.240 --> 01:23:02.040] Evaluating evidence.
[01:23:02.600 --> 01:23:03.880] Nobody look at me.
[01:23:05.480 --> 01:23:08.760] Evaluating evidence, that's a critical piece right there.
[01:23:08.760 --> 01:23:09.320] Yeah.
[01:23:09.640 --> 01:23:11.160] And where do you learn that at right?
[01:23:11.160 --> 01:23:14.840] And how many students are being taught that in their undergraduate classes?
[01:23:14.840 --> 01:23:15.240] Absolutely.
[01:23:15.480 --> 01:23:16.280] Hardly any.
[01:23:16.600 --> 01:23:17.800] It was a big thing for me.
[01:23:17.800 --> 01:23:25.480] And I remember that at the end of my undergraduate career, I took this class in community and invasion ecology.
[01:23:25.480 --> 01:23:27.880] And I went in there expecting to do the same thing that I always done.
[01:23:27.880 --> 01:23:31.080] You read the book, you take the test, you read the book again, you take the test again.
[01:23:31.080 --> 01:23:37.640] And the professor handed out some papers, some scientific papers, and said, okay, you know, read these and come back to me next week.
[01:23:37.640 --> 01:23:38.440] We're going to talk about them.
[01:23:38.440 --> 01:23:39.000] No problem.
[01:23:39.000 --> 01:23:39.960] I came back next week.
[01:23:39.960 --> 01:23:44.440] I gave a thorough report over what the papers said and what they were getting at and what they were talking about.
[01:23:44.440 --> 01:23:46.040] And he's like, yeah, that's awesome.
[01:23:46.280 --> 01:23:47.400] Were they right?
[01:23:47.720 --> 01:23:49.080] And I was just taken aback.
[01:23:49.080 --> 01:23:50.200] I was like, what are you talking about?
[01:23:50.200 --> 01:23:50.600] Are they right?
[01:23:50.600 --> 01:23:51.960] Well, it was published in Nature.
[01:23:51.960 --> 01:23:52.840] Of course it was right.
[01:23:52.840 --> 01:23:56.840] And it's like, yeah, but like, look at the figure on like page three.
[01:23:56.840 --> 01:24:00.040] They measure species in like decimals.
[01:24:00.040 --> 01:24:02.040] How do you have like 0.7 of a species?
[01:24:02.040 --> 01:24:03.480] And I'm like, flip.
[01:24:03.480 --> 01:24:05.480] I never asked that question.
[01:24:05.480 --> 01:24:08.040] And like, it shook me up.
[01:24:08.040 --> 01:24:24.880] And from that day on, that's one of the things that made me want to do what I do is because I realized like, how many times have I and my friends and people around me been caught in that trap of like, well, this guy says it and he knows stuff and this paper says it and it's a paper.
[01:24:24.880 --> 01:24:25.840] And like, you know what I mean?
[01:24:25.840 --> 01:24:31.360] And not knowing how to really ask questions and think in a broader sense.
[01:24:31.360 --> 01:24:34.480] And especially in biology, that's the name of the game.
[01:24:34.480 --> 01:24:41.440] You know, chemistry and physics, you guys are lucky because you can just, you know, you put the numbers in the formula and it does the thing and you know what it is.
[01:24:41.440 --> 01:24:46.400] Biology, if you think you've got life figured out, you look under the next rock, you'll be proven wrong.
[01:24:46.400 --> 01:25:05.440] And so like, that's that, it's so important in my field, especially to be able to really think in a big picture way and critically analyze what you think you know and to be willing to kind of tear apart any paradigm you have because I promise you, nature has weirder things in mind than you do.
[01:25:05.600 --> 01:25:08.400] So what are some of the favorite topics that you've covered?
[01:25:08.400 --> 01:25:11.200] Honestly, I love evolution.
[01:25:11.200 --> 01:25:16.320] I specialize in evolutionary biology and organismic biology when I was in my undergrad.
[01:25:16.320 --> 01:25:22.400] Since then, I went on to get to focus in grad school on bioanthropology and biomedical science.
[01:25:22.400 --> 01:25:45.440] And so learning about evolution and how humans play into this whole weird mess that we find ourselves in, those are some of my favorite things now to teach as well, because I feel like they're things that really shake up people's worldview and help knock them down off of their own pedestal and help them to dismantle the heuristics that they might not even realize they've been relying on as heavily as they are.
[01:25:45.440 --> 01:25:55.760] I also find that a lot of the times I've been turning science education into advocacy for marginalized groups or for just social progress in general.
[01:25:55.760 --> 01:26:01.240] The beginning of my content creation career was talking about race.
[01:25:59.520 --> 01:26:05.080] It was in 2020, right in the middle of the Black Lives Matter protests.
[01:26:05.320 --> 01:26:26.520] And my very first video was talking about where human skin coloration comes from in an evolutionary sense, how humans evolved, where we got different racial characteristics, and how if you know a racist person today, they're upset about the effects of 100,000-year-old sunlight, and they need to get over it because it's just weird.
[01:26:26.520 --> 01:26:35.400] And how, like, as the point of the message was that, like, as a biologist, when I say that we are all a family, I really mean that.
[01:26:35.400 --> 01:26:37.480] That's not just a platitude.
[01:26:37.480 --> 01:26:40.840] I mean that you are seriously related to everybody around you.
[01:26:40.840 --> 01:26:44.120] And that message really resonated with a lot of people.
[01:26:44.760 --> 01:26:51.000] I'm afraid you're asking for too much because it is remarkable when you think about that.
[01:26:51.000 --> 01:26:55.720] Like, from a scientific perspective, we are so unbelievably alike.
[01:26:55.720 --> 01:26:56.280] Yeah.
[01:26:56.280 --> 01:27:01.000] But, you know, we also seem to be hardwired to find the differences with each other.
[01:27:01.000 --> 01:27:01.480] Oh, yeah.
[01:27:01.480 --> 01:27:04.840] No, we are absurdly tribalistic creatures.
[01:27:04.840 --> 01:27:06.600] There was this really cool thing.
[01:27:06.600 --> 01:27:22.360] I think it was Tyfell back in the 1970s as a social psychologist, and he did those group, what do you call it, the experiments about intergroup discrimination, where he would separate people by totally arbitrary means into different groups.
[01:27:22.360 --> 01:27:27.800] Like one of the biggest, I think the most famous one was like he would show a bunch of dots on the screen and you'd ask him how many dots are there.
[01:27:27.800 --> 01:27:29.480] And it was like a split-second decision.
[01:27:29.640 --> 01:27:33.400] And then he'd say, okay, well, you overestimated the dots and you underestimated the dots.
[01:27:33.400 --> 01:27:35.160] And so you go this way and you go that way.
[01:27:35.160 --> 01:27:37.080] And in actuality, it was completely random.
[01:27:37.080 --> 01:27:39.080] There was really genuinely no criteria.
[01:27:39.080 --> 01:27:41.480] He was lying about whatever he's putting them up on.
[01:27:41.480 --> 01:27:43.000] And then they would play games.
[01:27:43.240 --> 01:27:49.760] And people from group A would go out of their way to screw over people from group B within minutes.
[01:27:50.000 --> 01:27:55.600] And when you ask them why, they'd just say, Well, they're gonna do it to me, you know, if I don't do it to them first.
[01:27:55.600 --> 01:28:11.760] And Tyfell himself, he wrote in these papers, he's like, Discriminatory, hateful, prejudice behaviors were like frighteningly easy to trigger in these people who knew that the separation was completely arbitrary and meant nothing.
[01:28:11.760 --> 01:28:14.640] And they just had this insane tribalism about them.
[01:28:14.640 --> 01:28:27.360] But the cool thing is, further context, there was another really cool study I remember where they took people from Australia and people from China, and they put them in an MRI machine and they like poked them in the face.
[01:28:27.360 --> 01:28:29.760] And then they showed them videos of other people being poked in the face.
[01:28:29.760 --> 01:28:36.400] And they're measuring not the somatosensory cortex, I think it was the anterior cingulate gyrus, if I remember right.
[01:28:36.400 --> 01:28:42.160] It was some part of the brain that isn't actually doing the feeling, but is like processing the emotion of feeling pain.
[01:28:42.880 --> 01:28:45.600] If only we had somebody here who studied Nero.
[01:28:45.920 --> 01:29:01.120] And I remember that they like across racial lines, they had this difference where like somebody of their own race, they had a more emotional reaction to seeing somebody else being hurt as if it was them being hurt.
[01:29:01.120 --> 01:29:03.600] But then they did it with exchange students.
[01:29:03.600 --> 01:29:08.400] And they had, you know, these Chinese people living in Australia and Australian people living in China.
[01:29:08.400 --> 01:29:11.200] And all of a sudden, that difference wasn't there anymore.
[01:29:11.200 --> 01:29:25.920] And it just showed that the more that they spent time around each other, the more that they were around other people of other races, cultures, backgrounds, religions, whatever, the more they started to see those people as people and identify them as a family.
[01:29:25.920 --> 01:29:28.720] And so, yeah, we are absurdly tribalistic creatures.
[01:29:28.720 --> 01:29:34.600] And it's very, very easy for us to draw these lines and say, no, no, no, no, no, this is us and this is them.
[01:29:35.160 --> 01:29:38.040] But it's also really easy to change those lines.
[01:29:38.040 --> 01:29:49.400] And the more you surround yourself with diversity of people and opinions and races and colors and classes and creeds and all sorts of things, the bigger your family becomes.
[01:29:49.400 --> 01:29:51.960] And the more those lines start to not matter to you.
[01:29:51.960 --> 01:29:59.240] And that's one of those big, powerful lessons I'm talking about, where it kind of knocks down the paradigm that people have of this us versus them mentality.
[01:29:59.400 --> 01:30:03.240] If the us is all of humanity, then you're going to behave that way.
[01:30:03.240 --> 01:30:04.600] And I think that's really important.
[01:30:04.600 --> 01:30:06.360] I forgot how we got here.
[01:30:07.000 --> 01:30:07.240] Yeah.
[01:30:07.720 --> 01:30:08.120] That's right.
[01:30:08.360 --> 01:30:08.920] Yeah, I agree.
[01:30:08.920 --> 01:30:17.240] Like that we draw lines is a human trait, you know, that we inherit, but how we draw the lines is totally learned.
[01:30:17.240 --> 01:30:17.720] Yeah.
[01:30:17.720 --> 01:30:24.120] And you can absolutely just by exposure essentially make all of humanity is my family, basically.
[01:30:25.080 --> 01:30:32.280] Yeah, rather than drawing it progressively narrow and smaller groups and othering everybody outside of our small group.
[01:30:32.280 --> 01:30:36.520] And also, yeah, there's that research is like decades old now, showing that over and over again.
[01:30:36.520 --> 01:30:38.200] Yeah, it's very, very consistent.
[01:30:38.200 --> 01:30:46.440] But also, when people are afraid and when they feel under stress, that tribalistic instinct is on steroids, right?
[01:30:46.440 --> 01:30:48.040] It just gets ramped up.
[01:30:48.040 --> 01:30:48.520] Yeah.
[01:30:48.840 --> 01:30:55.560] That's why fascism works so well because you can say those people are the problem, then people will believe you, especially the more scared they are.
[01:30:55.560 --> 01:30:57.400] It works the same in every country.
[01:30:57.400 --> 01:30:57.720] Exactly.
[01:30:57.800 --> 01:31:08.440] And that actually reminds me the way that we got here, you're talking about like activism and whatnot, is that I started talking about, you know, race and then immediately moved over to LGBT people, and it was the exact same thing.
[01:31:08.440 --> 01:31:15.680] It's a lot of people who don't understand and are very afraid of things that they don't understand and are willing to judge people based on criteria that they don't understand about rumors that they don't understand.
[01:31:17.200 --> 01:31:28.240] And it turns out science can come in and save the day and can stick up for these people and show that they're not crazy and they're not weird and they're not perverted, they're just part of the natural variation of our species.
[01:31:28.240 --> 01:31:37.760] And so, those kind of messages have been really, really, really powerful for my audience and really fulfilling for me to be able to learn and teach.
[01:31:37.760 --> 01:31:40.640] I hope that answers the question you asked because I do not remember what the question is.
[01:31:41.520 --> 01:31:42.240] Absolutely.
[01:31:42.240 --> 01:31:50.080] I mean, I agree, like with the LGBT thing, it's a good example of how it does help, like giving people information.
[01:31:50.080 --> 01:31:57.440] I think it helps, especially for people who are just genuinely confused, but it's not a panacea, you know.
[01:31:58.480 --> 01:32:08.800] And we've just today on TikTok, you know, had an interaction with our, you know, our audience where individuals were like, well, if they have an XY chromosome, they're a man.
[01:32:08.800 --> 01:32:09.280] That's it.
[01:32:09.280 --> 01:32:11.760] That's the ending of the discussion.
[01:32:11.760 --> 01:32:13.280] I'm like, what is easy as that?
[01:32:13.440 --> 01:32:17.600] What about this XY person who has a vagina?
[01:32:17.600 --> 01:32:20.560] And they just, they just said, I disagree with you.
[01:32:21.600 --> 01:32:22.160] What are you talking about?
[01:32:22.560 --> 01:32:24.080] I'm just giving you a fact.
[01:32:24.080 --> 01:32:26.800] And it didn't penetrate.
[01:32:26.800 --> 01:32:31.600] Yeah, no, I've had that discussion where someone says, you know, it's only, you know, XY equals man all the time.
[01:32:31.600 --> 01:32:35.360] And it's like, okay, here's a case study on a woman with Sawyer syndrome.
[01:32:35.360 --> 01:32:40.960] So she has XY allosomes and has given birth to children.
[01:32:40.960 --> 01:32:56.080] So either you need to agree with me that not all XY people are men or even male, or you need to agree with me that pregnancy is not exclusive to women because sex and gender are different things.
[01:32:56.080 --> 01:32:57.920] So, which one do you agree with me on?
[01:32:57.920 --> 01:32:59.600] Or do you just not agree with reality?
[01:32:59.600 --> 01:32:59.920] You know what I mean?
[01:33:00.680 --> 01:33:02.200] Yeah, my head explodes.
[01:33:02.520 --> 01:33:03.400] That's the biggest thing.
[01:33:03.880 --> 01:33:16.280] I feel like you know, talking about trans and intersex people, it's the new, like, it's exactly how it was with climate change when I was in high school, where it just becomes increasingly politicized.
[01:33:16.280 --> 01:33:22.120] And then, no matter what the science says, you're going to have people who just say, okay, well, that's new science.
[01:33:22.120 --> 01:33:23.400] And that's not right.
[01:33:23.400 --> 01:33:33.400] I've literally, the newest versions of Campbell's biology state that sex and gender are different, and neither one of them is a binary.
[01:33:33.400 --> 01:33:38.360] Because we just have learned new stuff about this science in the past few decades.
[01:33:38.360 --> 01:33:46.440] And I've had people challenge me on that and say, Yeah, but when those are the new textbooks, you need to look at the old textbooks because they were the right one.
[01:33:46.600 --> 01:33:50.520] And it's like, when would you ever do that at any other time?
[01:33:50.520 --> 01:33:54.280] If you take science seriously, give me one other time when you're like, no, no, no, no, no.
[01:33:54.440 --> 01:33:57.160] We were right before we knew more things.
[01:33:57.160 --> 01:33:58.600] Back when we were ignorant.
[01:33:58.600 --> 01:34:00.200] That's when we had it right.
[01:34:00.200 --> 01:34:01.480] Back when alchemy was a thing.
[01:34:01.480 --> 01:34:02.440] Let's get back there.
[01:34:02.680 --> 01:34:04.280] Yes, it's the old science.
[01:34:04.280 --> 01:34:05.880] Go back to the old science.
[01:34:06.520 --> 01:34:07.640] Yes, I like the old science.
[01:34:07.720 --> 01:34:10.520] Yeah, but again, this is where the critical thinking comes in because you tell them that.
[01:34:11.000 --> 01:34:14.200] Well, the new books are infected with woke ideology.
[01:34:14.200 --> 01:34:14.680] Yeah.
[01:34:15.480 --> 01:34:16.280] I love this one.
[01:34:16.280 --> 01:34:18.280] Well, all doctors don't agree on that.
[01:34:18.280 --> 01:34:21.560] Well, yeah, you can always find somebody who doesn't agree.
[01:34:21.560 --> 01:34:27.880] I mean, you know, and the concept of, you know, there's a consensus to them, the word consensus is hostile.
[01:34:27.880 --> 01:34:28.280] Yeah.
[01:34:28.600 --> 01:34:28.920] Yeah.
[01:34:29.080 --> 01:34:29.560] Well, yeah.
[01:34:29.560 --> 01:34:33.160] And that's, it's the one out of 10 dentist that doesn't recommend Crest.
[01:34:33.240 --> 01:34:36.920] He's the real guy that you need to be listening to, not sponsored by Crest.
[01:34:37.560 --> 01:34:54.000] But like, yeah, that's, it's, it is deeply frustrating when people don't really know how this stuff works and how that's, you know, when you first asked about why critical thinking is so important, I mentioned people think that science is just this book that we all just go to and check.
[01:34:54.000 --> 01:34:55.920] And if it's not in the book, it's not real.
[01:34:55.920 --> 01:34:58.080] And that's just not how it works.
[01:34:58.080 --> 01:35:04.160] And I feel like, especially during COVID, people saw science at work.
[01:35:04.160 --> 01:35:10.160] People saw us like arguing and debating and things changed and we learned new stuff and we changed the guidelines.
[01:35:10.160 --> 01:35:12.240] And it was a very scary situation.
[01:35:12.240 --> 01:35:15.280] And people were looking for guidance and they got it.
[01:35:15.280 --> 01:35:20.800] And then as we learned new stuff, we came out and said, hey, actually, this is now better guidance.
[01:35:20.800 --> 01:35:32.560] And I don't think, I think the majority, that's not fair to say, I think a huge amount of Americans were really taken aback because they thought that science was just the book that we went and checked.
[01:35:32.720 --> 01:35:35.040] Oh, it says in here that if you get COVID, you do this.
[01:35:35.040 --> 01:35:41.280] And then they had to see us learning about something and trying to help people at the same time.
[01:35:41.280 --> 01:35:44.400] And they don't think that it's possible to walk and chew gum.
[01:35:44.400 --> 01:35:56.160] And it's just, I think that really is disillusioning a lot of people to what science is capable of because they don't understand that it is a messy and long and difficult and hard process.
[01:35:56.160 --> 01:35:57.440] Yep, absolutely.
[01:35:57.440 --> 01:35:59.280] Where can people find you?
[01:35:59.280 --> 01:36:00.960] You can find me on them internets.
[01:36:01.200 --> 01:36:04.800] Look me up on YouTube at just look for my name, Forrest Valkyrie.
[01:36:04.800 --> 01:36:06.880] You can find me on TikTok as well, on Instagram.
[01:36:06.880 --> 01:36:09.200] Sometimes I remember that I have a Threads account too.
[01:36:09.200 --> 01:36:10.960] All the cool people are on Threads.
[01:36:10.960 --> 01:36:14.720] And just, you can look for my name or just go to Valkylabs.com, find me there.
[01:36:15.040 --> 01:36:17.520] Renegade Science Teacher is my handle on most things.
[01:36:17.520 --> 01:36:18.640] I'm all over the place.
[01:36:18.640 --> 01:36:22.800] If you like science, skepticism, and general weirdness, you will like my channels.
[01:36:22.800 --> 01:36:24.160] Well, thank you so much for joining us.
[01:36:24.160 --> 01:36:24.960] It's been really fun.
[01:36:24.960 --> 01:36:26.240] I really appreciate you having me.
[01:36:26.240 --> 01:36:27.280] Thanks, Forrest.
[01:36:27.280 --> 01:36:28.560] See you in October.
[01:36:28.560 --> 01:36:29.640] Bye.
[01:36:29.200 --> 01:36:36.360] It's time for science or fiction.
[01:36:41.400 --> 01:36:50.040] Each week I come up with three science news items or facts, two real and one fake, and then I challenge my panel of skeptics to tell me which one is the fake.
[01:36:50.040 --> 01:36:52.680] We kind of have a loose theme this week.
[01:36:52.680 --> 01:36:55.000] The theme is the future.
[01:36:55.000 --> 01:36:58.200] Three news items, what they have to do with future technology.
[01:36:58.200 --> 01:36:58.680] Okay.
[01:36:58.680 --> 01:36:59.400] All right?
[01:37:01.640 --> 01:37:03.880] I didn't care how many was that two or three groans?
[01:37:03.880 --> 01:37:04.360] I couldn't.
[01:37:04.600 --> 01:37:05.000] Yeah.
[01:37:06.200 --> 01:37:08.200] Okay, you always groan, but then you do fine.
[01:37:08.200 --> 01:37:08.840] So just chill.
[01:37:11.400 --> 01:37:11.880] Here we go.
[01:37:12.200 --> 01:37:13.720] The stamina it takes, the stamina.
[01:37:14.200 --> 01:37:26.920] Item number one: a new study finds that if the world's highways were covered with roofs of solar panels, they could generate more than 60% of the world's electricity and reduce traffic deaths by 10.8%.
[01:37:27.240 --> 01:37:37.480] Item number two: engineers have developed a method for heating the plasma inside a tokamak fusion reactor for about one-tenth of the energy of current methods.
[01:37:37.480 --> 01:37:46.680] And item number three, scientists outline a new method for warming the surface of Mars that is 5,000 times more efficient than existing proposals.
[01:37:47.000 --> 01:37:48.200] Jay, go first.
[01:37:48.200 --> 01:37:55.800] If the world's highways were covered with roofs of solar panels, they could generate more than 60% of the world's electricity.
[01:37:55.800 --> 01:37:59.560] And then the other point was that it would reduce traffic deaths by 10.8%.
[01:37:59.560 --> 01:38:05.400] Well, first of all, how the hell would they be able to get that specific with the reduction in traffic deaths?
[01:38:05.400 --> 01:38:08.120] That's one thing that makes me think this one's fake.
[01:38:08.120 --> 01:38:20.240] You know, you know, the thing is, the amount of money it would cost to put solar panels above existing highways, and then it would be a problem if they wanted to widen the highway and everything.
[01:38:20.400 --> 01:38:22.640] The whole premise seems to be broken to me.
[01:38:22.640 --> 01:38:25.440] I mean, we debunked the crap out of that a decade ago.
[01:38:25.440 --> 01:38:28.720] So, but that's that, but that's irrelevant compared to what's stated there, right?
[01:38:28.720 --> 01:38:29.760] It's all irrelevant.
[01:38:29.760 --> 01:38:30.000] I know.
[01:38:30.000 --> 01:38:33.520] I mean, just think the practicality isn't there, but okay, so someone did a test.
[01:38:33.520 --> 01:38:35.040] Yeah, what's the surface area?
[01:38:35.040 --> 01:38:35.760] Blah, blah, blah.
[01:38:35.760 --> 01:38:40.320] That maybe they're not caring about any of the legitimate logistics and costs and all that.
[01:38:40.320 --> 01:38:45.760] Now, to clarify, because I'm not sure you guys are getting this, this is not covering the roads with solar panels.
[01:38:45.760 --> 01:38:50.160] This is putting, like, building a roof over the road.
[01:38:50.160 --> 01:38:50.800] Yeah.
[01:38:50.800 --> 01:38:51.200] Yeah.
[01:38:51.360 --> 01:38:53.200] I think that's a typo.
[01:38:53.200 --> 01:38:53.840] Oh.
[01:38:54.160 --> 01:38:55.600] I read it that way, Steve.
[01:38:55.680 --> 01:38:59.760] I think it's still, so I might as well just clarify it up front.
[01:39:00.400 --> 01:39:18.160] I mean, you know, all this is telling us is that the, you know, the surface area that they would have available to them and some guesstimate on how that would somehow lower traffic incidence and lower traffic deaths because maybe of sun glare and stuff like that.
[01:39:18.160 --> 01:39:20.000] Okay, you know, that could be science.
[01:39:20.000 --> 01:39:28.400] Second one is the engineers have developed a method for heating the plasma inside a tokamak fusion reactor for about one-tenth the energy.
[01:39:28.400 --> 01:39:30.400] Wow, that is awesome.
[01:39:30.400 --> 01:39:32.160] God, I hope that's true.
[01:39:32.160 --> 01:39:41.280] That's, you know, this is one of those incremental steps that we've been waiting for that just keeps making, you know, the viability of this project, you know, more legit.
[01:39:41.440 --> 01:39:44.560] I don't have any reason to think that that one is off.
[01:39:44.560 --> 01:39:51.760] And the last one here, scientists outline a new method for warming the surface of Mars that is 5,000 times more efficient than existing.
[01:39:52.000 --> 01:39:52.640] Wow.
[01:39:52.960 --> 01:39:54.560] You know, that one seems legit, too.
[01:39:54.560 --> 01:39:59.680] Like, you know, yeah, there could be some novel way that they came up with to do that.
[01:39:59.680 --> 01:40:02.600] So, you know, the first one is just sucks.
[01:39:59.840 --> 01:40:05.960] And any way I interpret it, I don't like anything that they're saying in the first one.
[01:40:06.120 --> 01:40:08.280] It just seems like a useless study.
[01:40:08.280 --> 01:40:12.520] You know, the other two, like, are saying something very significant.
[01:40:12.520 --> 01:40:13.800] But, you know, I don't know.
[01:40:13.800 --> 01:40:16.600] I'm just going to take the first one as the fiction because I just don't like it.
[01:40:16.600 --> 01:40:17.560] Okay, Evan.
[01:40:17.560 --> 01:40:24.440] The study finds that you cover the highways with roofs and solar panels and reduce traffic deaths.
[01:40:25.320 --> 01:40:32.920] So it's more like a thought experiment rather than, I think, a practical suggestion of any kind of thing.
[01:40:33.240 --> 01:40:41.400] And therefore, on a paper and pencil kind of way, I have a feeling this one's going to turn out to be right.
[01:40:41.400 --> 01:40:45.480] How exactly it reduces traffic deaths, though?
[01:40:46.600 --> 01:40:47.480] How's that?
[01:40:47.720 --> 01:40:51.640] Is it because of like it blocks the sun from sun glare?
[01:40:51.640 --> 01:40:53.240] Is that the effect of like the roof?
[01:40:53.240 --> 01:40:57.000] And you don't, I don't, so I don't know how they reach that.
[01:40:57.000 --> 01:41:01.880] But again, it seems just like mathematical put to this item.
[01:41:01.880 --> 01:41:03.240] And therefore, that's the result.
[01:41:03.240 --> 01:41:04.760] So I'll say that one's science.
[01:41:04.760 --> 01:41:10.520] And the second one about heating the plasma inside a tokamak fusion reactor.
[01:41:10.520 --> 01:41:13.400] One-tenth the energy of current methods.
[01:41:13.400 --> 01:41:14.760] Well, I don't.
[01:41:15.000 --> 01:41:19.960] The only thing that strikes me a little weird about this one is the one-tenth of the current energy method.
[01:41:22.280 --> 01:41:25.080] That's quite a significant change.
[01:41:25.080 --> 01:41:27.560] I don't know if it'd be that much, right?
[01:41:27.560 --> 01:41:31.240] To get to one-tenth, that's a huge jump in efficiency.
[01:41:31.240 --> 01:41:31.560] Boy.
[01:41:31.720 --> 01:41:33.320] That's almost an order of magnitude.
[01:41:33.480 --> 01:41:33.840] Almost.
[01:41:33.800 --> 01:41:34.240] Exactly.
[01:41:34.360 --> 01:41:35.320] Wait, wait, what?
[01:41:35.880 --> 01:41:39.560] So that one could be fiction for that reason, I think.
[01:41:39.560 --> 01:41:45.760] And then the last one about the warming the surface of Mars, 5,000 times more efficient than existing proposals.
[01:41:44.520 --> 01:41:47.440] I don't even know what the existing proposals are.
[01:41:47.520 --> 01:41:47.920] What is it?
[01:41:47.920 --> 01:41:54.800] Like, we were talking years ago about nuclear detonations on Mars in order to get it warm.
[01:41:54.800 --> 01:41:56.880] But what would the new method be?
[01:41:57.040 --> 01:42:04.880] Did we talk about crashing, artificially crashing bodies into Mars, like pulling asteroids in using a tractor beam or something?
[01:42:04.880 --> 01:42:09.200] But that was more to bring water to the planet than heat it up.
[01:42:09.200 --> 01:42:09.520] Yeah.
[01:42:09.520 --> 01:42:10.240] I would think.
[01:42:10.240 --> 01:42:12.640] So warming the surface of Mars 5,000, what would you be doing?
[01:42:12.640 --> 01:42:16.480] You're drilling down to the core and like releasing energy from the core or something?
[01:42:16.480 --> 01:42:18.480] So it's between two and three for me.
[01:42:18.480 --> 01:42:20.080] I'll say the tokamak one.
[01:42:20.080 --> 01:42:28.320] I'll say that one's the fiction because one-tenth of the energy I think is just a bit too grandiose.
[01:42:28.320 --> 01:42:29.360] Okay, Kara.
[01:42:29.360 --> 01:42:33.680] I'm going to go with Evan because I don't know what a tokamak is.
[01:42:33.680 --> 01:42:40.880] That's basically the type of fusion reactor that's like a doughnut shape and you have plasma in it confined by magnetic fields.
[01:42:40.960 --> 01:42:44.560] You got to heat up the planet to the temperature of the core of the sun.
[01:42:44.560 --> 01:42:46.000] The plasma's like the jelly.
[01:42:46.000 --> 01:42:48.960] Yeah, I mean, these all sound not reasonable.
[01:42:49.600 --> 01:42:51.760] So, yeah, I don't know.
[01:42:51.760 --> 01:42:52.960] I'm going to go with Evan because it's the last thing.
[01:42:53.120 --> 01:42:54.080] Thanks, Kara.
[01:42:55.520 --> 01:42:58.720] When we're wrong together, it somehow makes it less painful.
[01:42:58.720 --> 01:42:59.680] It's easier, right?
[01:42:59.680 --> 01:43:00.160] It is.
[01:43:00.160 --> 01:43:00.640] Yeah.
[01:43:00.640 --> 01:43:01.440] Okay, Bob.
[01:43:01.440 --> 01:43:05.120] Yeah, the roofs of solar panels is so damn goofy.
[01:43:05.760 --> 01:43:14.000] But I mean, it seems reasonable, you know, within an order of magnitude that that's what would make, you know, that those numbers would be correct.
[01:43:14.000 --> 01:43:23.520] Too bad you'd also have to, you'd have to also light the interior of those damn structures as well because the highway lights will be too high.
[01:43:24.080 --> 01:43:27.520] You'll be in shadow at night when the lights are on.
[01:43:27.520 --> 01:43:29.360] Yeah, but LEDs take no energy.
[01:43:29.600 --> 01:43:30.200] Yeah.
[01:43:29.680 --> 01:43:37.160] Just another expense to the crazy expense that that would entail.
[01:43:37.240 --> 01:43:39.160] It's just so ridiculous.
[01:43:39.720 --> 01:43:43.720] The new method for warming the surface of Mars, 5,000 times more efficient.
[01:43:43.720 --> 01:43:48.520] I mean, how many plans actually are out there for warming the surface of Mars?
[01:43:48.520 --> 01:43:50.200] How much of a thing is that?
[01:43:50.200 --> 01:43:52.520] How many detailed studies have been done?
[01:43:52.520 --> 01:43:54.520] Not many at all that I'm aware of.
[01:43:54.520 --> 01:44:01.320] So the fact that somebody can come up with a new way that's much more efficient doesn't seem like a big deal to me.
[01:44:01.560 --> 01:44:05.080] Because this doesn't seem like a huge topic that people have analyzed to death.
[01:44:05.080 --> 01:44:07.080] And like, look at this new efficiency we discovered.
[01:44:07.080 --> 01:44:07.800] Big deal.
[01:44:07.800 --> 01:44:13.320] The most benign, the most commonplace thing here is number two with the tokamak.
[01:44:13.560 --> 01:44:14.040] I don't know.
[01:44:14.040 --> 01:44:17.800] You say there, you say one-tenth the energy of current methods.
[01:44:17.800 --> 01:44:25.480] Well, there's a lot of current methods, and some of them, like the MITs, is like uses the latest superconducting technology.
[01:44:25.480 --> 01:44:28.840] It's very efficient in a lot of ways.
[01:44:28.840 --> 01:44:37.320] And the fact that somebody could have come up or a team could have come up with another method with using one-tenth the energy would be fantastic.
[01:44:37.320 --> 01:44:44.040] I hope it's true, but it seems probably in a way more unlikely than the other two here, one or three.
[01:44:44.040 --> 01:44:47.400] And so I'll say Takamak is fiction as well.
[01:44:47.720 --> 01:44:48.360] All right.
[01:44:48.520 --> 01:44:50.360] So you all agree on the third one.
[01:44:50.360 --> 01:44:51.160] So we'll start there.
[01:44:51.160 --> 01:44:57.560] Scientists outline a new method for warming the surface of Mars that is 5,000 times more efficient than existing proposals.
[01:44:57.560 --> 01:45:03.400] You all think this one is science, and this one is science.
[01:45:03.400 --> 01:45:05.880] This is science technique.
[01:45:06.200 --> 01:45:14.520] So the existing proposals mainly involve putting basically the greenhouse gas effect, right?
[01:45:14.640 --> 01:45:25.520] Basically, finding some way to release enough gases and CO2, whatever, to increase the greenhouse gas effect and warm the surface of Mars that way.
[01:45:25.520 --> 01:45:28.560] So this does something else other than that.
[01:45:28.560 --> 01:45:29.760] What do you think it is?
[01:45:29.760 --> 01:45:34.560] I mean, solar arrays are in orbit that redirect the sunlight to the surface.
[01:45:34.560 --> 01:45:36.000] No, not bad guess, but no.
[01:45:36.320 --> 01:45:38.320] Crashing those moons into the surface.
[01:45:38.560 --> 01:45:38.960] No.
[01:45:40.240 --> 01:45:44.880] It basically involves releasing glitter into the atmosphere.
[01:45:45.280 --> 01:45:46.000] Let's not do this.
[01:45:46.320 --> 01:45:47.520] A planet of glitter?
[01:45:47.520 --> 01:45:48.000] That's like.
[01:45:48.240 --> 01:45:48.800] What could go wrong?
[01:45:48.960 --> 01:45:49.840] What could go wrong?
[01:45:50.160 --> 01:45:56.080] Those are their nanoparticles, nanoparticles, that they say have to be shaped just the right way.
[01:45:56.320 --> 01:46:09.680] They say they would be about the size and shape of glitter, but the purpose is to scatter the light so that you get more of the sunlight affecting the surface and to block the release of heat from the surface.
[01:46:09.680 --> 01:46:13.360] So essentially, it would duplicate the greenhouse gas effect.
[01:46:13.360 --> 01:46:15.680] It would scatter light and trap heat.
[01:46:15.680 --> 01:46:20.560] And they said it could work very quickly, like within years, it would already start to warm up the surface.
[01:46:20.560 --> 01:46:29.280] It could warm the surface of Mars by as much as 50 degrees Fahrenheit, which would be hot enough for ice to melt in certain regions.
[01:46:29.280 --> 01:46:34.320] I don't think the poles, but you know, maybe you get some ice melting around the equator of Mars.
[01:46:34.320 --> 01:46:44.000] So the downside of this, and it is 5,000 times as efficient in terms of how much stuff you have to release into the atmosphere in order to get the same effect.
[01:46:44.000 --> 01:46:53.600] And they said that they could maintain this based upon their models by releasing 30 liters per second continuously, basically.
[01:46:53.600 --> 01:46:58.880] A sustained release of 30 liters per second globally of Mars glitter.
[01:46:58.880 --> 01:47:00.000] And that would work.
[01:47:00.600 --> 01:47:08.040] But as soon as you stop doing that, within a few years, the effect would start to slowly go away.
[01:47:08.040 --> 01:47:14.040] So you'd have to basically continuously do it in order to maintain the warming that you get out of it.
[01:47:14.280 --> 01:47:16.200] How would you get that much glitter?
[01:47:16.200 --> 01:47:18.280] Yeah, that would be the problem, right?
[01:47:19.160 --> 01:47:28.920] Not that this would be an easy engineering feat, but it's still 5,000 times easier than bringing gas to Mars.
[01:47:30.600 --> 01:47:34.840] They also said that you could make it out of the local Mars regolith, right?
[01:47:34.840 --> 01:47:36.920] So you wouldn't have to bring material to Mars.
[01:47:36.920 --> 01:47:38.280] You could make it out of Mars.
[01:47:38.280 --> 01:47:48.520] So I guess you could have machines on the surface of Mars processing the Martian dirt into these nanoparticles and then spewing them up into the atmosphere.
[01:47:48.520 --> 01:47:51.320] Does anyone here hate glitter as much as I do?
[01:47:51.640 --> 01:47:52.120] Yeah.
[01:47:52.120 --> 01:47:53.080] Yeah, glitter is not.
[01:47:53.240 --> 01:47:53.480] It does.
[01:47:53.640 --> 01:47:54.360] It's coarse.
[01:47:54.600 --> 01:47:56.120] It gets everywhere.
[01:47:57.400 --> 01:47:58.760] You know, even I.
[01:47:59.400 --> 01:48:05.080] I was doing some early Halloween shopping, and every now and then I'll grab something that looks interesting.
[01:48:05.080 --> 01:48:09.000] And then, but sometimes there's stupid glitter on some of these products.
[01:48:09.000 --> 01:48:13.160] And as soon as I see the glitter, I put the product down, I wipe my hands off.
[01:48:13.160 --> 01:48:17.240] I'm like, I'm not buying that piece of crap because I don't buy anything with glitter on it.
[01:48:17.240 --> 01:48:17.800] That's good.
[01:48:17.800 --> 01:48:23.880] It's also an environmental disaster that has literally no necessary use.
[01:48:23.880 --> 01:48:24.680] Seriously.
[01:48:25.320 --> 01:48:26.920] It's all negative, no positive.
[01:48:27.560 --> 01:48:30.520] As far as I'm concerned, what about with strippers?
[01:48:30.840 --> 01:48:32.280] Glitter or no glitter strippers?
[01:48:32.680 --> 01:48:33.240] Don't need glitter.
[01:48:33.480 --> 01:48:34.240] No.
[01:48:34.240 --> 01:48:35.080] Don't need it.
[01:48:35.320 --> 01:48:37.480] I'm not looking at the glitter.
[01:48:38.200 --> 01:48:38.920] Don't need it.
[01:48:38.920 --> 01:48:40.360] All right, let's go back to number one.
[01:48:40.360 --> 01:48:51.120] A new study finds that if the world's highways were covered with roofs of solar panels, they could generate more than 60% of the world's electricity and reduce traffic deaths by 10.8%.
[01:48:51.680 --> 01:48:54.560] Jay, you think this one is the fiction.
[01:48:54.560 --> 01:48:56.960] Everyone else thinks this one is science.
[01:48:56.960 --> 01:49:00.880] And this one is science.
[01:49:00.880 --> 01:49:01.520] This is science.
[01:49:01.520 --> 01:49:02.320] Sorry, Jay.
[01:49:02.320 --> 01:49:02.560] Damn.
[01:49:02.720 --> 01:49:03.280] Oh, wow.
[01:49:03.280 --> 01:49:04.000] What a stupid.
[01:49:04.320 --> 01:49:05.440] Thanks, Evan.
[01:49:05.440 --> 01:49:06.000] Oh, sure.
[01:49:06.000 --> 01:49:06.720] Well, yeah.
[01:49:06.720 --> 01:49:16.080] They basically just did the calculation, like what it would take to basically cover all of the world's highways with solar panels.
[01:49:16.080 --> 01:49:18.480] Guess how many solar panels it would take?
[01:49:18.480 --> 01:49:19.200] Well, how big?
[01:49:19.520 --> 01:49:20.080] Yeah, right.
[01:49:20.080 --> 01:49:23.840] Like a standard exercise solar panels.
[01:49:23.840 --> 01:49:25.200] Oh, gosh.
[01:49:25.520 --> 01:49:26.960] A centillion of them.
[01:49:27.280 --> 01:49:29.440] It would be a few billion, probably.
[01:49:29.440 --> 01:49:30.800] Yeah, 51 billion.
[01:49:30.800 --> 01:49:31.760] So that's a lot.
[01:49:31.760 --> 01:49:33.200] It would obviously cost a lot of money.
[01:49:33.200 --> 01:49:37.200] There are significant engineering obstacles to this.
[01:49:38.240 --> 01:49:39.120] It's stupid.
[01:49:39.120 --> 01:49:41.280] But yeah, this is never going to happen.
[01:49:41.760 --> 01:49:43.280] No, it's an exercise.
[01:49:43.920 --> 01:49:46.080] But it would generate a lot of electricity.
[01:49:46.080 --> 01:49:58.640] They said that it would provide returns, a net return of about $14 trillion over 25 years of the 25-year lifetime of the panels if they did that.
[01:49:59.440 --> 01:50:00.400] Is that net?
[01:50:00.720 --> 01:50:01.440] Yes, net.
[01:50:02.640 --> 01:50:16.480] Here's a question, and they probably didn't look at this, but if you were to compare all of these newly built road roofs and the surface area that they offered to just the roofs on dwellings that already exist on the planet.
[01:50:16.960 --> 01:50:28.080] Yeah, so I do know that if you put a solar panel, solar panels on every residential home in the United States, that would produce about 30% of our electricity.
[01:50:28.080 --> 01:50:33.480] Yeah, so now you add to it every single build, every single commercial building?
[01:50:34.600 --> 01:50:38.120] It would not be 60%, but it would be, you would be getting up there.
[01:50:38.120 --> 01:50:42.440] Plus, you could also add just regular solar farms, right?
[01:50:42.440 --> 01:50:44.120] It doesn't have to be over the highway.
[01:50:44.120 --> 01:50:44.520] Right.
[01:50:45.240 --> 01:50:45.720] Which we do.
[01:50:45.720 --> 01:50:46.600] We already do that.
[01:50:46.600 --> 01:50:47.480] I know, I know.
[01:50:47.480 --> 01:50:47.880] Yeah.
[01:50:48.120 --> 01:50:49.560] This is why I don't think this is ever going to happen.
[01:50:49.560 --> 01:50:51.160] So it's like, yeah, let's just maximize what we have.
[01:50:51.320 --> 01:50:53.000] Part of some hail-proof.
[01:50:53.080 --> 01:50:58.680] Well, part of the idea is that the panels would block weather from hitting the road.
[01:50:58.680 --> 01:51:04.520] So that's where you get the 10% reduction in traffic deaths: is that the rain and snow and sleet, whatever is not happening.
[01:51:04.680 --> 01:51:05.480] I hadn't thought of that.
[01:51:05.480 --> 01:51:08.360] Yeah, it's protecting the road from the weather.
[01:51:08.360 --> 01:51:09.560] So that's one advantage.
[01:51:09.560 --> 01:51:18.360] They also said that the highways are already basically connected into a network that follows population and whatnot.
[01:51:18.440 --> 01:51:24.680] So it's like a pre-existing network that would be amenable to a network of energy production.
[01:51:24.680 --> 01:51:27.560] So that's what kind of spawned the idea.
[01:51:27.560 --> 01:51:30.120] But again, I think it's cost-prohibitive.
[01:51:30.120 --> 01:51:34.600] It's not the low-hanging fruit in terms of building solar panels.
[01:51:34.600 --> 01:51:35.080] Right.
[01:51:35.080 --> 01:51:40.600] Plus, the implementation of that, that would be like a rollout over 100 years probably to get to that point.
[01:51:40.600 --> 01:51:43.000] It's all how much money you want to spend, right?
[01:51:43.000 --> 01:51:45.560] Well, yeah, I mean, but you still need labor to do it.
[01:51:46.280 --> 01:51:47.720] You still need labor to do it all.
[01:51:47.720 --> 01:51:48.200] What are you going to do?
[01:51:48.200 --> 01:51:50.360] Get a million people to do this?
[01:51:50.520 --> 01:51:54.280] Yeah, they are building some test stretches, you know, to see how it works.
[01:51:54.440 --> 01:51:54.920] My God.
[01:51:55.160 --> 01:51:59.800] So it may work in a very limited rollout in very specific areas.
[01:51:59.800 --> 01:52:01.960] Yeah, and there's some places that just don't get that much sun.
[01:52:02.320 --> 01:52:06.280] Well, yeah, I mean, put it on, like, there's, but there's also highways going through the desert, you know.
[01:52:06.280 --> 01:52:07.640] Well, absolutely, right, yes.
[01:52:07.640 --> 01:52:08.120] Yeah.
[01:52:08.760 --> 01:52:17.040] So I guess it may have it may be one of those things that, like, certainly the world's highways are not going to be covered with solar panels, but there may be some limited rollout.
[01:52:17.280 --> 01:52:24.160] And who knows, once you do it, you may notice, they may notice that there's some advantages to it or that you could be leveraged in some way.
[01:52:24.160 --> 01:52:25.840] It's hard to predict.
[01:52:26.160 --> 01:52:33.120] I don't think it's going to work out, but you know, if they do some test stretches, it may provide surprising benefits.
[01:52:33.120 --> 01:52:34.160] Who knows?
[01:52:34.640 --> 01:52:37.680] It's a lot better than solar freaking highways, though, I'll tell you that.
[01:52:37.680 --> 01:52:40.240] Yeah, got to admit that.
[01:52:40.240 --> 01:52:51.600] All right, all of this means that engineers have developed a method for heating the plasma inside a tokamak fusion reactor for about one-tenth the energy of current methods is the fiction because, yeah, that's too much of an advantage.
[01:52:51.600 --> 01:52:53.200] I'm sad and happy.
[01:52:53.200 --> 01:52:55.680] But this is based upon a news item that is interesting, Bob.
[01:52:55.680 --> 01:53:01.120] It is still an interesting proposal that might improve the tokamak technology.
[01:53:01.120 --> 01:53:12.960] What they're working on is figuring out how to heat up the plasma using only microwaves and not using the copper coils that they have in the middle of the tokamak, right?
[01:53:12.960 --> 01:53:15.680] So basically, the tokamak works like a toaster oven, right?
[01:53:15.680 --> 01:53:19.120] You have copper coils in the middle that heat up and heat up the plasma.
[01:53:19.120 --> 01:53:22.480] And you also have microwaves that can heat it up from the outside.
[01:53:22.480 --> 01:53:26.320] The problem with the coils is that they take up a lot of space.
[01:53:26.320 --> 01:53:30.720] And so it makes the whole tokamak design a lot bigger.
[01:53:30.720 --> 01:53:48.080] So if you can eliminate it and you can get enough heating from just the microwaves, then you could shrink the size of the tokamak significantly, making everything easier and everything cheaper, which of course is one of the goals, you know, in terms of developing tokamaks.
[01:53:48.320 --> 01:53:49.120] Microwaves.
[01:53:49.280 --> 01:53:52.880] Yeah, so the study was looking at how do they do that?
[01:53:52.880 --> 01:54:04.440] Like, what is the frequency and the angle, and you know, what are all the little details that would optimize the transfer of energy from the microwaves to the plasma and how hot could they make the plasma?
[01:54:04.680 --> 01:54:10.040] Could they make it hot enough that they could eliminate these coils in the center of the tokamak?
[01:54:10.040 --> 01:54:11.480] That was the study.
[01:54:11.480 --> 01:54:17.640] But yeah, you're still transferring energy into heat, right?
[01:54:17.640 --> 01:54:24.520] You're not going to get a 10-time increase in efficiency would be amazing, you know, a little unrealistic.
[01:54:24.520 --> 01:54:25.880] All right, well, good job, guys.
[01:54:25.880 --> 01:54:27.560] Evan, give us a quote.
[01:54:27.560 --> 01:54:32.600] We must remember: psychics and mediums have been plying their trade since the beginning of time.
[01:54:32.600 --> 01:54:42.440] So if anything were to change, it may take generations of rational and critical work to settle the dark waters that are continually being swirled and muddied.
[01:54:42.440 --> 01:54:43.720] Mark Edward.
[01:54:44.040 --> 01:54:45.000] Nice quote from Mark.
[01:54:47.240 --> 01:54:48.200] He will be missed.
[01:54:48.200 --> 01:54:49.720] We will miss you, Mark.
[01:54:50.040 --> 01:54:50.440] All right.
[01:54:50.440 --> 01:54:52.680] Well, thank you all for joining me this week.
[01:54:52.680 --> 01:54:53.160] Cheer me.
[01:54:53.240 --> 01:54:54.280] Thanks, Steve.
[01:54:54.280 --> 01:54:58.520] And until next week, this is your Skeptic's Guide to the Universe.
[01:55:01.160 --> 01:55:07.880] Skeptics Guide to the Universe is produced by SGU Productions, dedicated to promoting science and critical thinking.
[01:55:07.880 --> 01:55:12.520] For more information, visit us at the skepticsguide.org.
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