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[00:00:33.280 --> 00:00:36.480] You're listening to The Skeptics Guide to the Universe.
[00:00:36.480 --> 00:00:39.440] Your escape to reality.
[00:00:40.080 --> 00:00:42.720] Hello, and welcome to The Skeptics Guide to the Universe.
[00:00:42.720 --> 00:00:47.840] Today is Thursday, August 1st, 2024, and this is your host, Stephen Novella.
[00:00:47.840 --> 00:00:49.600] Joining me this week are Bob Novella.
[00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:50.160] Hey, everybody.
[00:00:50.160 --> 00:00:51.520] Kara Santa Maria.
[00:00:51.520 --> 00:00:51.920] Howdy.
[00:00:51.920 --> 00:00:52.880] Jay Novella.
[00:00:52.880 --> 00:00:53.520] Hey, guys.
[00:00:53.520 --> 00:00:54.960] And Evan Bernstein.
[00:00:54.960 --> 00:00:55.840] Hello, everyone.
[00:00:55.840 --> 00:00:57.440] So, were you guys watching the Olympics?
[00:00:57.440 --> 00:00:57.920] Oh, yeah.
[00:00:58.080 --> 00:01:01.760] I'm watching clips of the Olympics on Instagram late at night when I'm trying to sleep.
[00:01:01.920 --> 00:01:02.160] Yeah.
[00:01:02.480 --> 00:01:03.440] Gymnastics, baby.
[00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:04.400] I know.
[00:01:04.400 --> 00:01:05.280] Simone Files.
[00:01:05.280 --> 00:01:05.680] Oh, I'm going to go to the bathroom.
[00:01:05.680 --> 00:01:06.240] Simone.
[00:01:06.560 --> 00:01:07.120] Spoiler alert.
[00:01:07.440 --> 00:01:07.840] USA.
[00:01:07.840 --> 00:01:09.840] She's rocks.
[00:01:09.920 --> 00:01:10.560] Spoiler alert.
[00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:11.520] Gosh.
[00:01:11.760 --> 00:01:12.400] Yeah, there she's.
[00:01:12.400 --> 00:01:13.760] She's been at the top of her game for so long.
[00:01:13.920 --> 00:01:14.320] Oh, my God.
[00:01:14.800 --> 00:01:15.840] What an inspiration.
[00:01:15.840 --> 00:01:16.400] Incredible.
[00:01:17.360 --> 00:01:23.200] At 27, which is like basically the oldest gymnast to ever win.
[00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:25.520] I mean, the team gold, she just went all around.
[00:01:25.920 --> 00:01:32.080] And after, yeah, after going down for her mental health purposes, having the twisties, you know, like the yips.
[00:01:32.080 --> 00:01:35.680] And I mean, everything that she's gone through coming back, coming back so strong.
[00:01:35.680 --> 00:01:36.000] I don't know.
[00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:44.240] I keep seeing posts from people saying, like, you know, people talk about these talents that are like generational talents, but she may just be it.
[00:01:44.560 --> 00:01:46.160] Like, she may be the greatest.
[00:01:46.720 --> 00:01:47.760] The goaches.
[00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:48.160] Yeah.
[00:01:48.160 --> 00:01:54.160] As of right now, she's the greatest of all time, but I don't know if she's going to be surpassable anytime soon.
[00:01:54.320 --> 00:01:54.560] Right.
[00:01:54.560 --> 00:01:54.960] That's going to be a good idea.
[00:01:55.160 --> 00:01:58.800] Rebecca Andraje from Brazil did very, very well.
[00:01:58.800 --> 00:02:02.120] She was closer to Simone than anybody else.
[00:02:02.440 --> 00:02:04.200] She got a silver in the all-around.
[00:01:59.600 --> 00:02:04.920] She's fantastic.
[00:02:05.080 --> 00:02:14.040] She's the only one that even had an outside chance, but still, Simone won by like a 1.2 points at the end of the day today.
[00:02:14.040 --> 00:02:17.240] And Suni, oh my God, Suni, what a story she's got.
[00:02:17.560 --> 00:02:25.480] She's the one that had, after she won the all-around a few years ago, she woke up and had two kidney diseases and gained 40 pounds in a month.
[00:02:25.480 --> 00:02:27.000] She was not doing great.
[00:02:27.000 --> 00:02:27.800] And she came back.
[00:02:27.800 --> 00:02:31.000] She won sil, I mean, bronze all-around today.
[00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:32.600] Fantastic story.
[00:02:33.240 --> 00:02:40.520] And then didn't another member of Team USA like have three separate ACL injuries or something like that and then came back to competition?
[00:02:40.760 --> 00:02:43.000] Rebecca Andraje had from Brazil, actually.
[00:02:43.240 --> 00:02:46.360] She had three ACLs surgeries.
[00:02:46.360 --> 00:02:48.600] And that always, I've mentioned it before.
[00:02:48.840 --> 00:02:54.760] That's amazing to me because you're at such a high level, as high as it gets in gymnastics.
[00:02:54.760 --> 00:03:00.440] You have three ACL surgeries and she comes back and she's still back at that at such a high level.
[00:03:00.440 --> 00:03:06.920] You would think she would lose five or six or seven percent at least and then be kind of out of such contention.
[00:03:06.920 --> 00:03:10.840] She, you know, she could have potentially won gold today in the world around.
[00:03:10.920 --> 00:03:12.600] That's very amazing.
[00:03:12.600 --> 00:03:16.760] She was closer to Simone than anybody else, but nobody's beaten Simone.
[00:03:17.080 --> 00:03:19.160] Do you know what my favorite is watching?
[00:03:19.160 --> 00:03:28.680] Have you seen any of these side-by-side videos of like the best of the best 50 years ago versus today and how much the sport has just massively accelerated?
[00:03:29.160 --> 00:03:30.520] Technology is just as incredible.
[00:03:31.160 --> 00:03:31.640] Amazing.
[00:03:31.960 --> 00:03:36.120] Some of the training and the techniques, they were really, they were really horrible.
[00:03:36.120 --> 00:03:45.920] I mean, some countries were horrible, especially the way the American training was done in like the, I don't know, like the 80s and 90s.
[00:03:46.320 --> 00:03:49.520] It was basically, you know, they were treated horribly.
[00:03:49.520 --> 00:03:51.600] They were so ridiculously strict.
[00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:53.520] It was terrible.
[00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:55.840] And now what's that?
[00:03:55.840 --> 00:03:56.160] At that time.
[00:03:56.640 --> 00:03:58.000] It was amateurs only at that time.
[00:03:58.000 --> 00:03:58.240] Yes.
[00:03:58.480 --> 00:03:59.840] So that's also a big difference.
[00:03:59.840 --> 00:04:00.240] Interesting.
[00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:00.960] That's a huge difference.
[00:04:01.200 --> 00:04:02.080] I didn't know that.
[00:04:02.080 --> 00:04:02.720] Okay.
[00:04:02.720 --> 00:04:09.440] Because very often when I see these side-by-side videos, I think it's just a function of like, I don't know, people are just way better athletes now.
[00:04:09.760 --> 00:04:12.080] I didn't realize that there was sort of a celebrity.
[00:04:13.200 --> 00:04:18.960] If I recall, it was into sometime in the 80s they finally allowed professional athletes to participate in U.S.
[00:04:18.960 --> 00:04:19.600] Olympics.
[00:04:19.680 --> 00:04:20.320] Yeah, remember the dreams?
[00:04:20.560 --> 00:04:22.800] But prior to that, you had to be an amateur.
[00:04:23.200 --> 00:04:23.680] Yeah.
[00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:26.880] Did you guys see the sharpshooter situation?
[00:04:26.880 --> 00:04:27.440] Oh, my God.
[00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:28.400] I did see that.
[00:04:28.640 --> 00:04:36.000] That guy from Turkey who shows up with no ear goggles, no accoutrements of the sport.
[00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:41.600] He's got his hand in his pocket shooting, and he's like a divorced dad from Turkey.
[00:04:41.600 --> 00:04:42.400] He gets silver.
[00:04:42.400 --> 00:04:45.120] He just strolls in, gets his silver.
[00:04:45.280 --> 00:04:46.560] That's probably his best day.
[00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:47.040] Look at him.
[00:04:47.040 --> 00:04:49.840] He looks like your neighbor across the street just strolling in with nothing.
[00:04:49.840 --> 00:04:53.040] None of the high-tech equipment that everybody else had, just him.
[00:04:53.040 --> 00:04:53.600] Silver.
[00:04:53.600 --> 00:04:54.480] Walks away with silver.
[00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:54.720] Awesome.
[00:04:54.880 --> 00:04:55.280] I love that.
[00:04:55.280 --> 00:04:59.600] I just saw that picture and read a little blurb, but it was like, oh, my God, that's awesome.
[00:04:59.600 --> 00:05:02.640] I also love, Bob, that you called them ear goggles.
[00:05:06.480 --> 00:05:07.520] I knew what you meant.
[00:05:07.520 --> 00:05:08.080] I love that.
[00:05:08.400 --> 00:05:08.960] That's funny.
[00:05:10.960 --> 00:05:14.080] The other thing was that it was mildly irritating.
[00:05:14.080 --> 00:05:26.160] It was all the backlash over the, you know, the opening of the Olympics because apparently there was symbolism being used that a lot of religious people didn't like or apparently understand.
[00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:27.280] Pagan ritual.
[00:05:27.280 --> 00:05:28.080] They didn't like it.
[00:05:28.080 --> 00:05:32.600] Yeah, I mean, there was like the big one was like the Last Supper.
[00:05:32.920 --> 00:05:34.360] But I don't think it was the Last Supper.
[00:05:29.840 --> 00:05:35.640] It was the Bacchanalia.
[00:05:36.200 --> 00:05:49.960] What we're seeing is a bunch of people dressed up as Greek gods and stuff like that, but because there was a table and the body positions of the people, they may very well have been making fun of Christianity by doing this.
[00:05:50.440 --> 00:05:51.480] I doubt it.
[00:05:51.480 --> 00:05:51.880] I don't know.
[00:05:52.200 --> 00:05:53.480] I don't know for certain.
[00:05:53.480 --> 00:05:59.640] I'm just saying that it's possible because it's like, can Christians really own something like a symbolic dinner?
[00:05:59.640 --> 00:06:02.600] Like, I'm pretty sure that existed prior to the Last Supper.
[00:06:02.840 --> 00:06:03.720] That's the joke, Kara.
[00:06:04.200 --> 00:06:04.520] Yeah.
[00:06:04.600 --> 00:06:05.880] That's the ridiculousness.
[00:06:05.880 --> 00:06:11.160] Like, you know, it's the idea, like, if you want to, if you're looking to be offended, you will be offended.
[00:06:11.160 --> 00:06:11.720] Right.
[00:06:11.720 --> 00:06:14.680] You know, isn't it how funny to be offended?
[00:06:14.680 --> 00:06:22.760] How funny, how funny to be offended by somebody else's religion because it offends your sensibility about your own religion.
[00:06:22.760 --> 00:06:24.520] What a weird way to live.
[00:06:24.520 --> 00:06:30.200] The director, Thomas Jolly, apparently completely denies that it was inspired by the Last Supper.
[00:06:30.200 --> 00:06:35.320] So that's, and I think that very well could be the case.
[00:06:35.320 --> 00:06:39.480] And again, whether it was or it wasn't, to me, it's irrelevant.
[00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:40.440] It's irrelevant.
[00:06:40.440 --> 00:06:42.680] You have to go out of your way to take offense at it.
[00:06:42.680 --> 00:06:45.880] Well, there were people dressed in drag and that type of thing.
[00:06:45.880 --> 00:06:49.960] And there's a lot of people now that get offended by that.
[00:06:51.400 --> 00:06:51.800] I'm sorry.
[00:06:52.840 --> 00:07:01.280] Yeah, if there is a celebration of a plurality of viewpoints and people, and you're offended because it doesn't fit your narrow view of what the world should look like.
[00:07:01.280 --> 00:07:03.000] Maybe you should look inward.
[00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:04.040] Yeah, definitely.
[00:07:04.040 --> 00:07:07.000] You know, they used a bull's head at some point.
[00:07:07.240 --> 00:07:08.840] It was on the stage somewhere.
[00:07:08.840 --> 00:07:15.920] And, you know, to a certain religion, like, you know, the bull represents one thing and to other mythologies.
[00:07:13.720 --> 00:07:21.280] And I wouldn't just say these are all religions, but just the history of other countries and things that people used to believe.
[00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:26.080] You know, the bull means many different things to many different people.
[00:07:26.080 --> 00:07:27.600] It's exactly what you said, Kara.
[00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:28.240] It's like...
[00:07:28.240 --> 00:07:38.000] Yeah, they had rallies in support of Christianity, among other things, as a response to what they perceived the opening ceremony was to them.
[00:07:38.320 --> 00:07:39.760] How did I just miss this entire?
[00:07:39.840 --> 00:07:45.920] I'm like literally frantically Googling right now because I was completely unaware of this quote-unquote controversy.
[00:07:45.920 --> 00:07:51.440] Because you are a responsible member of society doing your hard work, nose to the grindstone.
[00:07:51.440 --> 00:07:59.120] I mean, it does also look like the painting, The Feast of the Gods, which was a painting of the Greek gods, you know.
[00:07:59.360 --> 00:08:01.520] But anyway, you could go either way.
[00:08:01.520 --> 00:08:03.680] You could say that it was kind of a wink-wink, nod, nod.
[00:08:03.680 --> 00:08:06.800] You know, we're kind of doing it deliberately, but we have plausible deniability.
[00:08:06.800 --> 00:08:16.880] But it's also perfectly plausible that it was just the whole thing was themed after, you know, the Greek gods, which, of course, because it's the Olympics, you know, the bull, everything.
[00:08:16.880 --> 00:08:19.760] But it's like Nostradamus, right?
[00:08:19.760 --> 00:08:21.440] You can take anything he says and interpret it.
[00:08:21.520 --> 00:08:22.160] You could retrofit it.
[00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:23.040] You could retcon it.
[00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:25.120] You could retrofit it to any history, you know what I mean?
[00:08:25.120 --> 00:08:26.480] To make it fit anything.
[00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:32.880] The fact that you could find similarities and imbue your own interpretation on it is not surprising.
[00:08:33.040 --> 00:08:34.720] But of course, that's also part of art.
[00:08:34.720 --> 00:08:42.080] Sometimes artists want people to imbue their own meaning on the work, which is why they don't say what it's supposed to mean.
[00:08:42.080 --> 00:08:43.840] You're supposed to figure it out for yourself.
[00:08:43.840 --> 00:08:52.720] And that's a beautiful thing when it, I think, ventures into narcissism is when you are indignant that something personally offended your sensibilities.
[00:08:52.800 --> 00:08:54.320] It says more about you than anything else.
[00:08:54.320 --> 00:08:54.880] Exactly.
[00:08:54.880 --> 00:08:57.280] Instead of having a global view of the world.
[00:08:57.520 --> 00:09:03.400] By the way, getting back to the athletes and gymnastics, have you guys noticed that gymnasts are getting older?
[00:09:03.800 --> 00:09:04.280] Are they?
[00:08:59.920 --> 00:09:05.000] Oh, yeah.
[00:09:05.320 --> 00:09:11.560] Simone is the oldest winner, I think, in like 30, 40 years, 2027.
[00:09:11.560 --> 00:09:16.120] She's still quite young, but for a gymnast, that's up there.
[00:09:16.440 --> 00:09:18.440] Steve, you're saying the average age of the participants?
[00:09:18.680 --> 00:09:20.200] Yeah, so here's, I found a chart.
[00:09:20.520 --> 00:09:30.520] Because it seemed to me like when we were kids, they were all 15, early teen girls, you know, for the female gymnasts.
[00:09:30.840 --> 00:09:42.760] So what the chart shows is that the average age of women Olympic gymnasts reached its nadir in 1980 at 16.5 years old.
[00:09:42.760 --> 00:09:45.720] It has been steadily increasing since then.
[00:09:45.720 --> 00:09:47.880] Now it's almost 20 years old.
[00:09:47.880 --> 00:10:02.360] But before that, it actually reached its peak in 1952 at 23 years old and decreased steadily from 1952 to 1980, and then the trend reversed and started going up again.
[00:10:02.360 --> 00:10:03.400] That's interesting.
[00:10:03.400 --> 00:10:04.440] Well, the what?
[00:10:04.440 --> 00:10:08.360] The communist countries of Europe after World War II, 1952?
[00:10:08.600 --> 00:10:09.800] Maybe that somehow.
[00:10:10.120 --> 00:10:17.240] No, I'm just, well, not the fault, but a reflection of perhaps that time those countries.
[00:10:17.800 --> 00:10:21.720] They dominated so well that they were looking to emulate that.
[00:10:22.680 --> 00:10:25.720] In fact, the Carolis, the Carolis ran.
[00:10:25.720 --> 00:10:33.960] The Carolis ran the American gymnastics, and they had a lot of say, and they were very, very rough.
[00:10:33.960 --> 00:10:38.440] They were verging on abusive in terms of like what you can eat, what you can do.
[00:10:38.440 --> 00:10:39.400] It was really not good.
[00:10:39.640 --> 00:10:40.760] Like Nadia Komenici.
[00:10:41.040 --> 00:10:46.160] There've kind of had a, they're so much more free now to do kind of like their own thing.
[00:10:46.160 --> 00:10:50.320] And also, the thing that they're focusing on now, it's more power.
[00:10:44.680 --> 00:10:51.120] There's a lot more power.
[00:10:51.440 --> 00:11:02.960] If you're 16 years old and you weigh 85, 90 pounds, you are not going to be able to generate the power that you need to do some of these amazing tumblings that these gymnasts do.
[00:11:02.960 --> 00:11:12.960] And for example, like China this year, their gymnasts were still small and very, you know, very slight, smaller than I think many of the other teams, as far as I could tell.
[00:11:12.960 --> 00:11:22.960] They just did not do well on the vault because you need to jump on that platform and shoot up off of it and the spring platform.
[00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:32.640] And if you're 85 pounds, you're just not going to be able to do that as well as a woman that's heavier, that's got 20, 30 pounds on you, that's older and more mature.
[00:11:32.640 --> 00:11:34.080] You're not going to be able to generate that power.
[00:11:34.080 --> 00:11:45.600] And that's one of the reasons why the men can generate so much power because they, on average, they're going to be heavier, you know, and they're going to be able to leap off of that springboard and do things that even Simone can't do.
[00:11:45.600 --> 00:11:51.120] Yeah, I mean, it's interesting how they, you know, men's and women's gymnastics are two completely different sports.
[00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:53.680] They have different apparatus, they do have different moves.
[00:11:53.680 --> 00:11:56.400] There are a lot of moves that the women do that men can't physically do.
[00:11:56.400 --> 00:11:58.480] There are moves that the men do that women don't do.
[00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:04.880] But it is interesting to see how over time, some of those expectations have been turned on their ear.
[00:12:04.880 --> 00:12:17.920] Men are doing things that are a little more graceful, that are a little more, show off flexibility and sort of lightness on their feet, and women are doing more things, you're right, that show like just sheer power and strength.
[00:12:17.920 --> 00:12:22.400] When you're historically, they were much more, I guess, gendered in that way.
[00:12:22.400 --> 00:12:23.840] Yeah, there's still a long way to go.
[00:12:23.840 --> 00:12:29.080] I mean, the guys' like floor routines are just so regimented and they don't even have music to do they?
[00:12:29.720 --> 00:12:33.080] Yeah, I mean, it's they're not expected to dance around like the women's dance.
[00:12:29.040 --> 00:12:35.320] Yeah, there's no dancing at all.
[00:12:35.480 --> 00:12:41.080] There's no like artistic component like the women's floor routines at all.
[00:12:41.080 --> 00:12:44.840] But yeah, so who knows maybe the men dance.
[00:12:44.840 --> 00:12:47.080] All right, well, let's get started with the news items.
[00:12:47.080 --> 00:12:50.520] Carrie, you're going to tell us about a potential new treatment for progeria.
[00:12:50.920 --> 00:12:53.400] This was an interesting item that I was digging into.
[00:12:53.400 --> 00:12:58.920] It gets deep in the weeds, so I'm going to try and keep it at a reasonable level.
[00:12:58.920 --> 00:13:00.440] So, what does that mean?
[00:13:00.440 --> 00:13:01.480] That it gets deep in the weeds.
[00:13:01.480 --> 00:13:01.960] Oh, it's just.
[00:13:04.280 --> 00:13:17.720] The reason that I wanted to talk about this week is that there was an article published in the New York Times last week, well, within the last week, called A Disease That Makes Children Age Rapidly Gets Closer to a Cure by Gina Collada.
[00:13:17.720 --> 00:13:27.000] I love the way that this piece of science communication or health communication was written because the storytelling component is really lovely.
[00:13:27.000 --> 00:14:06.920] She tells the tale of Francis Collins, former head of the NIH, and his sort of career-spanning interest in progeria, his personal experiences working with patients with progeria, having colleagues who have a colleague with a child with progeria, and the timeline of this very rare genetic disease wanting and passionately being interested in trying to do something about this very rare genetic disease, and being unable to move forward until the technology opened new pathways.
[00:14:06.920 --> 00:14:18.000] And so, you know, there are multiple bottlenecks along the way, but basically, Francis Collins, before he was even at NIH, back when he was training at Yale, became really interested in progeria.
[00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:29.360] It was always in his mind while he was at NIH, he was able to run his own small lab and have a graduate student, and he focused on progeria in that lab.
[00:14:29.680 --> 00:14:39.120] He was involved with the team, I think it was his graduate student, who first identified the genetic mutation that causes progeria.
[00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:51.040] But very often, there wasn't a lot to be done because, you know, identifying why something happens and then actually changing that thing are two completely different animals.
[00:14:51.040 --> 00:14:53.200] So let's take a second and talk about progeria first.
[00:14:53.840 --> 00:15:00.640] When I say progeria, does everybody here, at least on the show, have an image in their head of what that disease is, or is this a new word to you?
[00:15:00.640 --> 00:15:01.200] Oh, yeah.
[00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:02.160] So Bob's got it.
[00:15:02.160 --> 00:15:04.240] Obviously, Steve's got it.
[00:15:04.880 --> 00:15:09.440] Isn't it the kids that have a really large head and they don't age properly?
[00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:10.080] Yes, yes.
[00:15:10.080 --> 00:15:12.800] So sometimes it's referred to as a rapid aging disease.
[00:15:13.680 --> 00:15:19.200] It's sort of a misnomer, but it does actually kind of follow that a little bit.
[00:15:19.520 --> 00:15:23.680] It's actually called Hutchinson-Guilford progeria syndrome.
[00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:26.240] Most people just call it progeria for short.
[00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:31.600] And it's caused by a very, very obvious and individual mutation.
[00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:33.440] It's a dominant negative.
[00:15:33.440 --> 00:15:34.320] So this is interesting.
[00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:35.680] It's actually a dominant gene.
[00:15:35.680 --> 00:15:42.880] And there is, I think, one documented case of a family in India where they did pass this on to their children.
[00:15:42.880 --> 00:15:53.120] But most people with progeria die before their childbearing, or even if they don't die before childbearing age, they are incapable of bearing children.
[00:15:53.120 --> 00:15:54.880] So that part's kind of interesting.
[00:15:54.880 --> 00:16:01.560] So it is dominant, but it's a G, sorry, a CG to TA mutation.
[00:15:59.760 --> 00:16:06.600] It's a simple base pair mutation in a gene called LMNA.
[00:16:06.920 --> 00:16:11.720] That gene LMNA usually encodes for something called nuclear laminin A.
[00:16:12.040 --> 00:16:23.000] Nuclear laminin A, when it's healthy, is involved in building the nucleus of the cell and a few other kinds of components at that core level.
[00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:30.680] When it has undergone this mutation, the RNA missplices and produces something called progerin.
[00:16:30.680 --> 00:16:35.400] And this is a protein that wreaks havoc on these individuals.
[00:16:35.720 --> 00:16:49.400] Very often they refer to it as rapid aging, but it happens because of a whole series of issues, including, I think there's been documented 1,400 different SNPs.
[00:16:49.400 --> 00:17:01.080] So, you know, there's all these different manifestations of this single gene mutation that happened down the line, and it causes the cells to divide incorrectly.
[00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:12.680] Very often, it either limits the ability of the cell to divide, or the cell division is defective, which leads to all this kind of like misorganized chromatin during the cell, or actually, it's the other way around.
[00:17:12.680 --> 00:17:16.600] The misorganized chromatin leads to the cell to divide ineffectively.
[00:17:16.600 --> 00:17:23.320] And very often, I think the average age of the average lifespan of children with progeria is around 13.
[00:17:23.320 --> 00:17:26.040] It might be pushing a little higher, 14, 15 now.
[00:17:26.040 --> 00:17:29.880] They very often die from cardiovascular illness.
[00:17:29.880 --> 00:17:33.720] There are these changes to the heart that occur relatively early on.
[00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:41.080] Some children with progeria will have strokes, but some of the telltale signs have to do with their cardiovascular health.
[00:17:41.080 --> 00:17:44.040] So, and it's a visible disease, right?
[00:17:44.040 --> 00:17:48.320] Like, there's a lot of, would you say, Steve, like pathognemonic signs?
[00:17:48.320 --> 00:17:50.160] Like, you can recognize it when you see it.
[00:17:50.160 --> 00:17:50.560] Yeah.
[00:17:50.560 --> 00:17:50.800] Yeah.
[00:17:50.800 --> 00:17:51.040] Okay.
[00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:53.920] It's what we call an across-the-room diagnosis, right?
[00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:54.800] Totally.
[00:17:54.800 --> 00:17:55.200] Yeah.
[00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:59.120] When you see somebody with progeria, it's it's pretty clear that that's progeria.
[00:17:59.120 --> 00:18:03.840] Um, but interestingly, when they're first born, there aren't aren't signs or symptoms.
[00:18:03.840 --> 00:18:09.120] They're born healthy, and then it, and then they start to see those changes in development.
[00:18:09.120 --> 00:18:19.520] So, coming back to this story, basically, Francis Collins has this lab, he brings in a postdoc, a fellow, and says, Let's figure out what causes progeria.
[00:18:19.520 --> 00:18:20.000] Nobody knows.
[00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:20.800] We need to figure this out.
[00:18:20.800 --> 00:18:26.560] And remember, Francis Collins is a guy who was like part of the, you know, he's like an architect of the Human Genome Project.
[00:18:26.560 --> 00:18:28.960] And this is, he's a geneticist.
[00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:32.000] That was his training.
[00:18:32.320 --> 00:18:37.840] And so he had this postdoc, Maria Erickson, and he said, okay, let's give it a year.
[00:18:37.840 --> 00:18:38.960] Let's see if we can figure this out.
[00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:43.440] And in only a few months, she was able to identify this mutation.
[00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:44.560] And they published a paper.
[00:18:44.560 --> 00:18:46.800] This was way back in 2003.
[00:18:46.800 --> 00:18:48.640] They did a bunch of animal models.
[00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:54.400] They started looking at, you know, cells in petri dishes to try and understand it a little bit better.
[00:18:54.400 --> 00:18:56.720] But at that point, there wasn't really much they could do about it.
[00:18:56.720 --> 00:18:58.720] But then something came along around 2012.
[00:18:58.720 --> 00:18:59.680] What might that have been?
[00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:00.800] CRISPR.
[00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:01.840] CRISPR!
[00:19:01.840 --> 00:19:02.800] Yeah, CRISPR.
[00:19:02.800 --> 00:19:11.280] So CRISPR comes along around 2012, and they're like, holy crap, we can actually go into this very specific mutation and we can cut.
[00:19:11.600 --> 00:19:14.720] But is cutting what they needed?
[00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:20.000] Did they really need to just splice the gene to disable the gene?
[00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:24.560] What was probably even more important than going in and targeting that gene?
[00:19:24.560 --> 00:19:27.520] It was correcting the problem.
[00:19:27.520 --> 00:19:29.040] And how did they correct the problem?
[00:19:29.040 --> 00:19:31.800] Well, that came along in 2017.
[00:19:29.840 --> 00:19:32.120] Dr.
[00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:43.400] David Liu, who's a director of the Merkin Institute for Transformative Technologies in Healthcare at Harvard, developed something really interesting.
[00:19:43.720 --> 00:19:46.840] He developed something called base editing.
[00:19:46.840 --> 00:19:56.680] And base editing started as cytosine base editors and eventually they developed into newer base editors called adenine base editors.
[00:19:56.680 --> 00:20:04.280] And what adenine base editors can do is they can introduce adenine to guanine substitutions, which is a really big deal.
[00:20:04.280 --> 00:20:08.840] So now you can go into a very particular mutation.
[00:20:08.840 --> 00:20:11.480] You can target that mutation using CRISPR.
[00:20:11.480 --> 00:20:20.600] You can use a base editor to then actually correct that mutation by swapping the individual building blocks there.
[00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:36.520] And what do you think happened when they did that first in a mouse model, or maybe I don't know the order, so I'm going to say both in a mouse model, and also in Petri dishes using actual human cells, fibroblast cells, from children with progeria?
[00:20:36.840 --> 00:20:42.680] I would think that it would stop progression, or if it, if it, I mean, I'm thinking more of like if you gave it to a person.
[00:20:43.400 --> 00:20:44.600] Right, and they haven't done that yet.
[00:20:44.920 --> 00:20:50.680] But I would think it would, for a person, it would either stop it or prevent it from manifesting.
[00:20:50.680 --> 00:20:57.000] So in a Petri dish, with these fibroblasts from children, 87 to 91% correction of the pathogenic allele.
[00:20:57.000 --> 00:20:57.320] Nice.
[00:20:57.640 --> 00:21:08.280] They were able to correct the DNA at that level, which then mitigated the missplicing of the RNA, which then reduced the levels of the progerin and corrected those nuclear abnormalities.
[00:21:08.280 --> 00:21:13.160] So you have this downstream effect, 87 to 91% correction.
[00:21:13.720 --> 00:21:14.800] It was a big deal.
[00:21:14.520 --> 00:21:19.920] In mice, a single injection, it was basically an infusion, I think.
[00:21:20.080 --> 00:21:26.800] No, it was an injection, it was retroorbital injection that encoded this adenine base editor, resulted.
[00:21:26.800 --> 00:21:31.680] This is directly from the publication, this was back in 2021 where they did the mouse study.
[00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:40.320] Quote, substantial durable correction of the pathogenic mutation, restoration of normal RNA splicing, and reduction of progerin protein levels.
[00:21:40.320 --> 00:21:43.200] Okay, so the injection was given to the mice at postnatal day 14.
[00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:49.120] And remember, this is a mouse model for progeria by inducing the same genetic mutation in mice.
[00:21:49.120 --> 00:22:07.680] Injected it at day 14 after birth, and they found that the median lifespan of mice went from 215 days in the mice with mouse progeria to 510 days in the mice without, which is the beginning of old age for mice.
[00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:14.400] That's the beginning of what they call like a mouse's elder years or days, I guess you could say.
[00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:26.160] So, you know, they say right there in the paper, these findings demonstrate the potential of in vivo base editing as a possible treatment for HGPS and other genetic diseases by directly correcting their root cause.
[00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:36.160] One of the big hurdles they had to overcome, apparently, was just getting both CRISPR and the base editor into a vector that was small enough to enter a cell.
[00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:37.680] Yeah, vector is always the problem.
[00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:38.000] Yep.
[00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:39.680] They had to find the right virus.
[00:22:39.680 --> 00:22:47.680] They had to do a lot of shrinkage first of the actual apparatus, the technology, and then they had to find the right viral vector to be able to get this to work.
[00:22:47.680 --> 00:23:02.360] But at this point, with such promising results in both mice and in vitro human cells, this team, and this is incredible, this is a team of researchers from all these different labs all over the country.
[00:23:02.680 --> 00:23:15.240] They meet once a week to talk about what's on the horizon, what can they do, and they're actively working now to try and find pharma companies that are interested and to get a clinical trial going.
[00:23:15.240 --> 00:23:22.200] So there is no clinical trial yet, but they're working to obtain permission from the FDA to start a clinical trial right now.
[00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:24.360] They need to find the right pharmaceutical company.
[00:23:24.360 --> 00:23:32.920] And actually, it might not even be a pharma company, but biotech company to make the base editor for use in humans to make sure that it's safe, to make sure that it can fit, and all of the hurdles.
[00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:35.080] It's got to be an orphan disease, right?
[00:23:35.080 --> 00:23:35.480] So that.
[00:23:35.800 --> 00:23:36.520] Oh, 100%.
[00:23:36.520 --> 00:23:41.160] Progeria is, so they call this an ultra-rare genetic disease.
[00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:47.240] They call ultra-rare genetic diseases those that affect fewer than one in one million people.
[00:23:47.240 --> 00:23:49.720] And there are about 7,000.
[00:23:49.720 --> 00:23:51.400] Okay, let me put it this way.
[00:23:51.400 --> 00:23:56.760] There are about 7,000 genetic diseases for which we know what the mutation is.
[00:23:56.760 --> 00:24:01.800] Like we already know where the mutation is, meaning we could potentially do something about it.
[00:24:01.800 --> 00:24:14.520] Of those 7,000, 85% of them are ultra-rare, meaning that they affect fewer than one in a million people, and only 100 or a few hundred of those have treatments available to them.
[00:24:14.520 --> 00:24:17.080] Progeria is especially rare.
[00:24:17.080 --> 00:24:23.160] It apparently only affects one in 18 to 20 million people.
[00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:30.520] So in the United States alone, according to the Progeria Research Foundation, there are only 18 living patients.
[00:24:30.760 --> 00:24:37.240] This is why when there are diseases like this, they're viewed by a lot of researchers as curiosities.
[00:24:37.240 --> 00:24:45.760] They make for great doctoral dissertations, but pharma companies aren't often invested or even labs.
[00:24:44.840 --> 00:24:46.160] Exactly.
[00:24:46.320 --> 00:24:58.720] Like it's a very expensive investment with no return, really, when you're looking at the pure numbers, except for basically the gift to humanity and the gift to these individuals who are suffering and these families who are suffering.
[00:24:58.960 --> 00:25:01.120] I mean, this is a fatal disease.
[00:25:01.120 --> 00:25:07.040] And so this team is doing this with, you know, no remuneration, no hopes for remuneration.
[00:25:07.040 --> 00:25:19.440] They're just meeting because it's fascinating to them, because they are super interested in the biology here, and also because people are born, people are going to continue to be born with progeri, even though it is a hereditary disease.
[00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:23.440] It happens because of an acute random mutation.
[00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:25.120] And so that's always going to happen.
[00:25:25.120 --> 00:25:27.760] It's just happening in very, very low numbers.
[00:25:28.160 --> 00:25:29.200] That is neat.
[00:25:29.840 --> 00:25:30.640] Wow, man.
[00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:31.920] Good old reductionist science.
[00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:36.480] I always say this a lot, but it's like understand something at its fundamental level and fix it.
[00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:38.240] There's just no substitute for that.
[00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:38.720] There isn't.
[00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:50.320] And I love it when science stories are told in the way that this article tells them, where you really feel the history, the human players, and you see, okay, we've gotten as far as we can go.
[00:25:50.320 --> 00:25:51.520] We're going to keep trying.
[00:25:51.520 --> 00:25:56.320] But then all of a sudden a dam breaks loose because a new technology is developed or becomes available.
[00:25:56.320 --> 00:25:57.600] It's just incredible.
[00:25:57.600 --> 00:25:58.720] Thank you, Kara.
[00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:01.600] Jay, give us an update on solid-state batteries.
[00:26:01.600 --> 00:26:03.360] Well, you know what a battery is, right, Steve?
[00:26:03.360 --> 00:26:04.800] I'm vaguely familiar with the idea.
[00:26:05.360 --> 00:26:08.000] It's a park at the tip of Manhattan Island.
[00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:14.320] Just to be clear here, solid-state batteries have existed for quite a while.
[00:26:14.320 --> 00:26:20.160] I mean, basically, they were originally conceived in the 1830s by Michael Faraday.
[00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:22.080] You might have heard his last name.
[00:26:22.080 --> 00:26:22.400] Yeah.
[00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:23.040] And IKEA.
[00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:26.000] I think they made the first one back in the 50s.
[00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:30.680] And today, there's multiple companies that are developing solid-state batteries.
[00:26:29.920 --> 00:26:32.600] Some of them you've heard of, and some you probably haven't.
[00:26:32.760 --> 00:26:37.640] We have Samsung, Toyota, and then you have a company called Quantumscape.
[00:26:37.720 --> 00:26:44.680] There's Solid Power, and then there's Contemporary Amperx Technology Company Limited, C-A-T-L.
[00:26:44.680 --> 00:26:48.280] These are all companies that are working on the technology.
[00:26:48.280 --> 00:26:56.120] So I'm going to talk about Samsung's latest advancement and what is basically going on with their technology.
[00:26:56.120 --> 00:27:09.240] So Samsung recently announced that they made a major advancement in EV batteries, and they revealed it at the SNE Battery Day 2024 Expo, which happened in Seoul, South Korea.
[00:27:09.240 --> 00:27:11.720] This was on July 23rd and 24th.
[00:27:11.720 --> 00:27:13.080] So here's the basics.
[00:27:13.080 --> 00:27:18.200] So their solid-state battery has an estimated 600-mile range.
[00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:23.000] It can charge in nine minutes, and it could have a lifespan of up to 20 years.
[00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:28.840] So Samsung is saying that their new batteries have 500 watt hours per kilogram.
[00:27:28.840 --> 00:27:31.720] This is double the current mainstream EV batteries.
[00:27:31.720 --> 00:27:38.360] The company actually has a pilot solid-state battery production line, and it's fully operational.
[00:27:38.360 --> 00:27:40.440] They're making these batteries right now.
[00:27:40.440 --> 00:27:43.960] This is happening at their RD center in South Korea.
[00:27:43.960 --> 00:27:54.360] So Samsung's SDI batteries stated that they built the pilot line last year to mass produce these solid-state batteries by 2027.
[00:27:54.360 --> 00:27:56.680] So they have initial batches that they're making.
[00:27:56.680 --> 00:28:03.560] They've sent them to EV manufacturing companies for testing, and so far, the feedback has been positive.
[00:28:03.560 --> 00:28:05.880] This is all very, very good news.
[00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:15.840] Now, these batteries are supposed to be smaller, lighter, and a lot safer than standard lithium-ion batteries that are currently basically everywhere, right?
[00:28:14.760 --> 00:28:20.400] You know, in every electric vehicle, and they're just, you know, that is what the world is using right now.
[00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:24.000] So, they're replacing the liquid components with solid ones.
[00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:32.240] They're supposed to be safer than the traditional lithium-ion batteries due to essentially the replacement of the liquid electrolytes with solid electrolytes, right?
[00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:36.480] So, we have, because of this, there is an elimination of flammable liquids, right?
[00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:41.600] So, the liquids that are in a lithium-ion battery are flammable and they could leak, and they do.
[00:28:41.600 --> 00:28:46.880] And you could see videos of people's cell phones having problems and EV bicycles.
[00:28:46.880 --> 00:28:52.480] These batteries are pretty big, and you know, I saw a guy get in an elevator and his battery basically exploded on him.
[00:28:52.800 --> 00:28:53.680] So scary.
[00:28:53.680 --> 00:28:55.360] Yeah, it doesn't happen that often.
[00:28:55.680 --> 00:29:03.600] But, yeah, this is why you have to have your is it that you have to have them in your carry-on and not your checked package?
[00:29:03.600 --> 00:29:05.200] They don't want, yes, yeah, that's why.
[00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:22.160] So, there's also also this thing called a reduced risk of thermal runaway, and this means thermal runaway is a condition where an increase in temperature can cause a further increase in temperature, and this could lead to a fire or explosion.
[00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:28.560] There's enhanced structural integrity in the solid-state batteries, meaning that they could withstand more damage.
[00:29:28.560 --> 00:29:33.680] You know, you drop a lithium-ion battery, and you know, don't feel like everything's okay.
[00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:39.200] You know, like you could do some structural damage, and that could lead to some bad things.
[00:29:39.200 --> 00:29:42.320] And they just overall have improved chemical stability.
[00:29:42.320 --> 00:29:46.160] So, I think that this so far sounds great.
[00:29:46.160 --> 00:29:55.840] Um, there is one caveat, though: the initial production costs are going to be extremely high because they're brand new and they're, you know, they're and they're amazing, you know what I mean?
[00:29:55.840 --> 00:29:57.520] Like, you know, double the range.
[00:29:57.520 --> 00:30:02.040] So, they're the first application is going to be in the ultra-high-end EV market.
[00:30:02.360 --> 00:30:08.760] These are cars that are probably going to be more expensive than, say, you know, $70,000, which most of us can't afford.
[00:30:08.760 --> 00:30:16.840] But just like everything else, you know, as they produce more and more factories come up and more competition catches up, you know, these prices will definitely come down.
[00:30:16.840 --> 00:30:22.440] They're going to be rolling these out in the year 2027, which is really not that far from now.
[00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:31.320] And I think, you know, probably within the next five years, we're going to start to see them trickle down into more and more things that can be affordable to the average person.
[00:30:31.320 --> 00:30:33.240] So, a few clarifications here.
[00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:39.640] I did more research and I wanted to make sure when I say that they could do a nine-minute recharge, what does that actually mean?
[00:30:39.640 --> 00:30:42.920] Well, they don't mean from zero to a hundred percent.
[00:30:42.920 --> 00:30:55.640] What they typically mean with a recharge is a battery on the low end would be at the 10 to 20 percent mark, and then to get it up to 80 percent capacity, that's where the nine-minute charge comes in.
[00:30:55.640 --> 00:31:04.840] You know, the full charge could take a lot longer, and the reason why is when you charge a battery above 80 percent, you have to slow down so you don't damage the battery.
[00:31:04.840 --> 00:31:10.040] So, I don't know what the full 100 percent charge would take, but it's probably an overnight charge just like every other.
[00:31:10.440 --> 00:31:15.320] The thing is, you're not going to use fast charging to go up to 100 percent.
[00:31:15.320 --> 00:31:16.200] No, right, right.
[00:31:16.200 --> 00:31:19.000] You can use it for that 10 to 20 percent up to 80.
[00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:22.920] You can even push it to 85, 90 percent, but that's it.
[00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:30.280] If you're going to be charging, and even for day-to-day use, you don't charge up to 100%, you charge up to 90% or 85%.
[00:31:30.280 --> 00:31:35.960] Yeah, the only time you ever charge up to 100% is like the night before you're going on a long trip.
[00:31:35.960 --> 00:31:36.280] I don't know.
[00:31:36.280 --> 00:31:39.320] When I drove electric, I just plugged it in at night like my cell phone.
[00:31:39.320 --> 00:31:40.200] Yeah, that's what I'm just saying.
[00:31:41.320 --> 00:31:46.320] But you could, like with our Tesla, we program it and we tell it how high to charge it up to.
[00:31:46.320 --> 00:31:46.880] Oh, I see.
[00:31:46.960 --> 00:31:47.520] So we don't care about it.
[00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:49.680] 80%.
[00:31:44.760 --> 00:31:51.520] You know, that's more than we need for day-to-day use.
[00:31:51.680 --> 00:31:54.640] And then twice a year, three times a year, we're going on a long trip.
[00:31:54.960 --> 00:31:58.480] We charge up to 100% just so we get that extra range for the long trip.
[00:31:58.480 --> 00:32:04.640] And then when you fast charge on the highway, you just charge it up to 80% because you could do that in 10, 15 minutes.
[00:32:05.040 --> 00:32:08.320] But it takes like 30 minutes to get that extra 20%, right?
[00:32:08.320 --> 00:32:09.520] It's just not worth it.
[00:32:09.760 --> 00:32:15.840] Yeah, keep in mind, these batteries are going to be roughly double what today's batteries are.
[00:32:15.840 --> 00:32:22.000] So, you know, 80% of a battery that's double what today's range is means everything's fine.
[00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:25.760] You know, it's still a very short charge time.
[00:32:25.760 --> 00:32:29.520] We are shifting towards an EV market here.
[00:32:29.520 --> 00:32:34.960] Of course, we need more charging stations, you know, charging stations and charging infrastructure and the grid.
[00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:37.840] All of these things have to be dramatically improved.
[00:32:37.840 --> 00:32:39.680] It's going to cost billions of dollars.
[00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:44.880] But, you know, society is changing at all times, and these changes cost money and they take time.
[00:32:44.880 --> 00:32:48.160] I'm seeing battery charging stations pop up all the time.
[00:32:48.160 --> 00:33:02.160] So, just for context, though, Jay, the Ampreus silicone anode lithium-ion batteries also have the same exact energy, specific energy of 500 watt hours per kilogram.
[00:33:02.400 --> 00:33:05.840] So, that's over, that was like a year ago, two years ago.
[00:33:05.840 --> 00:33:16.720] So, that's basically the solid-state batteries and the silicon anode batteries are neck and neck in terms of their energy density and specific energy, which is good.
[00:33:16.720 --> 00:33:22.240] I mean, so we already are at the double what was the standard a year or two ago.
[00:33:22.480 --> 00:33:26.080] And again, they're introducing them into the high-end market.
[00:33:26.080 --> 00:33:29.360] And what I'm beginning to see is that, yeah, this is what's happening.
[00:33:29.360 --> 00:33:42.600] If you want a car with a 200 to 250 mile range, you get the lithium-ion batteries that do not use the cobalt and the nickel, right?
[00:33:42.840 --> 00:33:45.880] Because they have a little bit less energy density.
[00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:50.280] If you want the 300 to 400 mile range, then you get the next one up.
[00:33:50.280 --> 00:33:54.920] That's the more standard lithium-ion batteries with cobalt and nickel.
[00:33:54.920 --> 00:34:00.440] And if you want 500 to 600, maybe you'll get a solid-state battery or a silicone anode battery, right?
[00:34:00.440 --> 00:34:05.880] So depending on what your range you want, you will get a battery that fits that range.
[00:34:05.880 --> 00:34:11.000] Of course, you're going to be paying a premium for the super long range vehicles.
[00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:22.040] We've talked about the fact before that range anxiety, I think, is a temporary condition, but the market is basically playing to range anxiety at this point.
[00:34:22.040 --> 00:34:26.840] But people are basically getting way more range than they need, and it's just not cost-effective.
[00:34:26.840 --> 00:34:39.880] We're better off actually just investing in more charging stations to deal with the range anxiety rather than ridiculously long-ranged vehicles that are more than what you're going to need 99% of the time, you know.
[00:34:39.880 --> 00:34:41.160] But yeah, we're well on our way.
[00:34:41.160 --> 00:34:51.640] I think definitely, you know, by the end of the decade, these sort of double energy density batteries, whether it's the solid state or lithium iron, are going to be more standard.
[00:34:51.640 --> 00:34:57.880] And we're going to be moving on to the triple density batteries or, you know, whatever in the twenty to the twenty thirties.
[00:34:58.360 --> 00:35:10.520] And is there anything about the this is me not knowing much about batteries, but there's nothing about solid-state batteries, for example, the technology that would preclude you from having a two-way battery in your house, right?
[00:35:10.840 --> 00:35:15.040] No, like having this as a hi as your house battery, like for battery backup?
[00:35:15.040 --> 00:35:16.640] Yeah, having it as battery storage.
[00:35:16.640 --> 00:35:17.440] Your power wall.
[00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:18.720] Yeah, no, no, it's fine.
[00:35:18.720 --> 00:35:19.040] That's great.
[00:35:14.680 --> 00:35:19.120] Yeah.
[00:35:19.280 --> 00:35:22.320] Because that's what I think that is definitely what we need to be moving forward.
[00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:27.200] But you wouldn't use this battery for that, Kara, because it's way too expensive.
[00:35:27.200 --> 00:35:31.680] What you're going to use for your home battery is the least energy-dense battery.
[00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:36.400] Sorry, to be clear, what I mean is having your car as a backup battery.
[00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:37.120] Oh, having your car.
[00:35:37.360 --> 00:35:43.120] Yeah, I'm talking about this battery in your car serving as a backup battery and having a two-way charge function.
[00:35:43.600 --> 00:35:45.520] There's a lot of discussion about that.
[00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:51.520] And it's really up to the car manufacturers to allow this to happen.
[00:35:51.520 --> 00:36:02.640] So right now, you know, your house gets alternating current energy, and then you need to have a converter to DC because the cars run off of DC.
[00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:09.280] So you would need a DC back to AC if you're going to use your car as a backup battery.
[00:36:09.280 --> 00:36:13.360] And, you know, not all EVs have that.
[00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:19.680] And for some of them, if you use an external DC to AC converter, it voids the warranty.
[00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:21.760] They don't want you to do that.
[00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:25.120] But now I do see the market, there's a lot of discussion.
[00:36:25.120 --> 00:36:30.720] I think it's shifting into just saying, okay, we're going to include the DC to AC converter.
[00:36:30.720 --> 00:36:33.440] And we'll, yes, you can use it for grid backup.
[00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:42.240] Because then we're going to get to the point, I think, where, like, when we park our EV at night, we plug it in every night, no matter what its juice is, right?
[00:36:42.240 --> 00:36:43.280] That's just standard.
[00:36:43.280 --> 00:36:44.720] And we let the car figure it all out.
[00:36:44.720 --> 00:36:45.760] Like, we don't even worry about it.
[00:36:46.080 --> 00:36:47.920] You park and plug, and that's it.
[00:36:47.920 --> 00:36:56.080] If everyone does that, and we're up to the 20, 30, or more percent penetration of EVs, that's massive grid storage, right?
[00:36:56.080 --> 00:37:09.800] And then you could theoretically get a rebate from the power company or from the state or whatever if you agree to plug your car into the grid at nighttime and use it for grid storage, right?
[00:37:09.800 --> 00:37:13.160] Which there's already that for home battery backup.
[00:37:13.160 --> 00:37:21.720] You know, like in Connecticut, there are incentives to have a home battery that the utility company will use to stabilize the grid for peak shaving and all that kind of stuff.
[00:37:21.720 --> 00:37:24.200] And then you add your own solar panel to that.
[00:37:24.200 --> 00:37:24.760] Oh, yeah.
[00:37:24.760 --> 00:37:25.240] Yeah.
[00:37:25.240 --> 00:37:25.720] It's all good.
[00:37:25.880 --> 00:37:28.920] You're off-grid when you need to be, you're on grid when you're giving back.
[00:37:28.920 --> 00:37:31.640] I mean, or when it's peaking, you're giving back when you don't need.
[00:37:31.800 --> 00:37:32.680] I mean, it's great.
[00:37:32.680 --> 00:37:33.800] It just expands the grid.
[00:37:34.280 --> 00:37:40.120] The other thing is, and this is, I think, it's a little bit more speculative, and if it will happen, it's farther off.
[00:37:40.120 --> 00:37:41.320] Is that so?
[00:37:41.320 --> 00:37:44.280] Right now, so solar panels are DC.
[00:37:44.280 --> 00:37:48.680] They convert to AC for your home and then back to DC for your car.
[00:37:48.680 --> 00:37:49.560] And then back to AC.
[00:37:50.280 --> 00:37:53.160] Back to AC if you use your car as a backup.
[00:37:53.160 --> 00:37:58.680] Wouldn't the whole system function better if it was all DC from beginning to end, right?
[00:37:58.680 --> 00:37:59.160] 100%.
[00:37:59.880 --> 00:38:01.240] At least to the box.
[00:38:01.240 --> 00:38:03.480] Everything, but the whole thing could be DC.
[00:38:03.480 --> 00:38:09.400] So the reason that AC won out over DC a hundred years ago.
[00:38:09.480 --> 00:38:10.840] Oh, I thought it was safer.
[00:38:10.840 --> 00:38:11.400] No.
[00:38:12.040 --> 00:38:12.280] No.
[00:38:12.760 --> 00:38:13.960] For those experiments they did.
[00:38:14.200 --> 00:38:17.640] No, it was primarily for long-distance transmission.
[00:38:17.640 --> 00:38:18.600] That was it.
[00:38:18.600 --> 00:38:23.640] AC, there's much less power loss over long distance with AC than with DC.
[00:38:23.640 --> 00:38:24.760] And that was simple.
[00:38:24.760 --> 00:38:26.280] It was a technological feat.
[00:38:26.280 --> 00:38:26.760] That was it.
[00:38:26.760 --> 00:38:27.960] That was a technological reason.
[00:38:27.960 --> 00:38:30.680] That was the reason why AC won out over DC.
[00:38:30.680 --> 00:38:35.240] But now we have the technology for long-distance DC transmission.
[00:38:35.240 --> 00:38:40.440] So that one big advantage to AC, it isn't such an advantage anymore.
[00:38:40.440 --> 00:38:49.360] And now, because of solar panels and car batteries and battery backups, we might be better just going shifting over entirely to DC.
[00:38:44.840 --> 00:38:50.800] But God, that would be a big change.
[00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:59.840] What if we shifted so that the panel was DC, but then the converter was only for things within your home that converted to AC?
[00:39:00.080 --> 00:39:00.560] That would make sense.
[00:39:00.800 --> 00:39:01.760] It could be, yeah, it could be.
[00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:02.800] Like the hub was DC.
[00:39:02.960 --> 00:39:06.960] The AC to DC converter can be before your home.
[00:39:06.960 --> 00:39:07.200] Right.
[00:39:07.200 --> 00:39:10.880] And that way we don't have to change every appliance.
[00:39:11.200 --> 00:39:12.880] After the home is DC.
[00:39:13.920 --> 00:39:14.880] Yeah, that would make sense.
[00:39:14.880 --> 00:39:19.840] Well, but the thing is, like when you have a brick for your laptop, that's an AC to DC converter.
[00:39:19.840 --> 00:39:23.920] Which of course you wouldn't need that if your home was DC.
[00:39:23.920 --> 00:39:33.120] I think we might have a phase where the two systems run in parallel, where there's basically an AC system and a DC system running in parallel.
[00:39:33.120 --> 00:39:40.960] Or again, I think like everything distal to your home is DC, and then it gets converted to AC for the long-distance transmission.
[00:39:40.960 --> 00:39:42.320] So we don't have to replace the grid.
[00:39:42.320 --> 00:39:49.840] But if we're upgrading the grid anyway, we could theoretically put in a DC grid and just make everything DC.
[00:39:49.840 --> 00:39:54.320] I just don't, I think, yeah, it's just, it'd be very difficult to make that level of transition.
[00:39:54.320 --> 00:39:58.720] And that's why there's a little bit of inertia to the technology that we have right now.
[00:39:59.040 --> 00:40:07.040] But if we had it to design all over again, it probably would be better just to make everything DC from beginning to end, which is interesting to think about.
[00:40:07.040 --> 00:40:15.200] Well, it's also, yeah, it makes me think about places in the world where certain technologies are just coming online or where certain infrastructures are just being laid down.
[00:40:15.200 --> 00:40:17.840] It's like, let's skip all of the learning curve.
[00:40:17.800 --> 00:40:20.560] You know, let's start with like the most efficient things we have.
[00:40:20.960 --> 00:40:21.600] Exactly.
[00:40:21.600 --> 00:40:22.480] Exactly.
[00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:28.240] What I would say to someone who's considering FDU is to come because they give great scholarship opportunities.
[00:40:28.240 --> 00:40:30.040] The professors are very helpful.
[00:40:30.040 --> 00:40:32.920] They want you to learn and they want you to pass.
[00:40:29.680 --> 00:40:35.160] And FDU gives you a second family.
[00:40:35.480 --> 00:40:39.080] Seize the moment and change your world at FDU.
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[00:41:39.800 --> 00:41:40.360] All right.
[00:41:40.360 --> 00:41:41.560] Thank you, Jay.
[00:41:41.560 --> 00:41:42.040] You got it.
[00:41:42.040 --> 00:41:46.760] All right, guys, I want to talk about a controversial topic: the CAS review.
[00:41:46.760 --> 00:41:48.360] Have you guys heard about this?
[00:41:48.360 --> 00:41:49.800] I am so glad you're doing this.
[00:41:51.400 --> 00:41:54.440] I, and I personally, like, I've, you know, I've dabbled.
[00:41:54.440 --> 00:41:56.600] A deep dive sounds exciting to me.
[00:41:56.600 --> 00:41:57.560] It's tricky.
[00:41:57.560 --> 00:41:58.440] And yes.
[00:41:58.440 --> 00:42:05.640] We've had a lot of emails of people asking us to talk about the review, and it's taken me a long time.
[00:42:05.640 --> 00:42:10.760] I had to read the whole thing and read plenty of analyses of it and criticisms of it.
[00:42:10.760 --> 00:42:13.320] And I think I understand the core of the issue.
[00:42:13.320 --> 00:42:14.600] Now, this is really complicated.
[00:42:14.600 --> 00:42:16.000] Let me just preface that.
[00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:16.720] So, what is it?
[00:42:16.720 --> 00:42:17.920] What is the CAS review?
[00:42:14.840 --> 00:42:20.560] This has to do with gender-affirming care.
[00:42:20.880 --> 00:42:27.600] And this is a multi-year, very thorough review that was done in the UK.
[00:42:27.920 --> 00:42:29.200] And, you know, Dr.
[00:42:29.200 --> 00:42:32.400] Cass is a pediatrician who headed up the review.
[00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:40.720] And they came up with guidelines and recommendations based upon their exhaustive, systematic review of all the evidence for gender-affirming care.
[00:42:40.720 --> 00:42:43.440] And what are we talking about with gender-affirming care?
[00:42:43.440 --> 00:43:00.560] The big focus of the review was hormones for delaying puberty, but also included cross-sex hormones and gender-affirming surgeries, you know, either breast reduction surgery, mastectomy, or vaginoplasty, or whatever, right?
[00:43:00.560 --> 00:43:02.400] So, you know, basically genital surgery.
[00:43:02.720 --> 00:43:05.760] And can I ask right here at the top before you even get into a deep dive?
[00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:10.160] Because I read an article recently that, I don't know, I feel like we need to make mention of this.
[00:43:10.160 --> 00:43:17.520] The CAS review, is it specifically for gender-affirming surgery in trans individuals, not in cis individuals?
[00:43:17.520 --> 00:43:17.920] Yeah.
[00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:24.880] Okay, because, yeah, I recently came across a study that showed that the vast majority of gender-affirming surgeries that are performed in the U.S.
[00:43:24.880 --> 00:43:27.280] are performed on cis people.
[00:43:28.240 --> 00:43:31.440] So, like, we've got to make sure that we make that clear.
[00:43:31.440 --> 00:43:31.760] Yeah.
[00:43:32.160 --> 00:43:36.720] The CAS review is only looking at surgeries that are affirming the gender of somebody who is trans.
[00:43:37.120 --> 00:43:41.760] It's for gender-affirming care in trans individuals and only in pediatrics, right?
[00:43:41.760 --> 00:43:42.080] Okay.
[00:43:42.080 --> 00:43:43.200] Not in adults.
[00:43:43.680 --> 00:43:50.800] The outcome of this review has been wildly misreported, in my opinion.
[00:43:51.120 --> 00:44:02.360] Every popular mainstream media reporting I have read about it, I feel, especially in the United States, has missed what the report actually says.
[00:44:02.680 --> 00:44:21.960] The narrative has largely been that the medical system in the UK is finally coming to its senses with this really respectable cash review, and American medicine is stubbornly refusing to listen and are considering continuing to do to mismanage pediatric patients.
[00:44:22.680 --> 00:44:26.520] And of course, this is mainly coming from right-leaning journalists.
[00:44:26.520 --> 00:44:31.960] There hasn't been much written by left-leaning journalists in my experience.
[00:44:32.360 --> 00:44:37.640] I think they're just ducking and covering because, again, they don't want to make of it because it's very complicated.
[00:44:37.640 --> 00:44:49.960] But it is largely true that in the UK, there have been already numerous changes in the guidelines and in the practices of the UK Health Service.
[00:44:49.960 --> 00:44:55.080] And the United States medical system has largely ignored the cash review.
[00:44:55.080 --> 00:44:55.560] We have not.
[00:44:55.720 --> 00:44:59.080] Oh, so you're saying those changes in the NHS have been a direct result of the cash review?
[00:44:59.320 --> 00:44:59.560] Absolutely.
[00:45:00.280 --> 00:45:00.680] Okay.
[00:45:00.680 --> 00:45:01.800] Absolutely.
[00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:09.720] And there have been some red state laws in the United States that have cited the cash review to justify things they were already doing.
[00:45:09.720 --> 00:45:15.320] But in terms of the medical establishment in the United States, they have not been impressed.
[00:45:15.320 --> 00:45:17.000] Let me just put it that way.
[00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:25.640] And again, the mainstream journalistic narrative is that, like, again, American doctors are being stubborn and ideological and whatever.
[00:45:25.640 --> 00:45:27.880] And I just don't think that's fair.
[00:45:27.880 --> 00:45:33.640] First of all, I think that a lot of people misunderstand what the cash review actually concluded.
[00:45:33.640 --> 00:45:36.840] And they're making it sound a lot more negative than it was.
[00:45:36.840 --> 00:45:47.760] Now, having said that, they did make some recommendations, which I personally disagree with, and I'll tell you why in a moment, but that are negative about gender-affirming care, but not in the way that people are reporting it.
[00:45:48.080 --> 00:46:04.640] So, first of all, the standard of care that the CAS review recommended is largely in line with the existing standards of care of the Endocrine Society clinical practice guidelines and the WPATH guidelines.
[00:46:04.640 --> 00:46:10.160] This is sort of the major international group looking at gender-affirming care, right?
[00:46:10.480 --> 00:46:16.960] So, it actually isn't that out of line with the published standards of care that already exist.
[00:46:16.960 --> 00:46:20.640] And where it is out of line with it, you know, I do think they get it wrong.
[00:46:20.640 --> 00:46:26.800] The other thing is, nowhere in the review does it say that gender-affirming care does not work.
[00:46:26.800 --> 00:46:31.200] That's the narrative that has sort of come out of it, but that's not what they said.
[00:46:31.200 --> 00:46:35.600] They didn't say that it's harmful, they didn't say it doesn't work.
[00:46:35.600 --> 00:46:47.760] All they said was that it doesn't meet a threshold of evidence to say that we can recommend it outside of the context of a research study.
[00:46:47.760 --> 00:46:54.160] So, their recommendation was like we should not give puberty-delaying hormones outside of a clinical trial, right?
[00:46:54.160 --> 00:46:55.360] That was a specific recommendation.
[00:46:55.600 --> 00:46:55.840] I see.
[00:46:55.840 --> 00:46:57.680] So, they're basically saying we need more research.
[00:46:57.680 --> 00:46:58.560] Yes.
[00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:02.720] Which, of course, sounds superficially reasonable, right?
[00:47:03.040 --> 00:47:10.240] And, of course, you know, maybe the world's preeminent proponent of science-based medicines, it's I coined the term.
[00:47:10.720 --> 00:47:20.800] And that's most of what we talk about on science-based medicine: increasing the threshold of evidence before recommending treatment and like only doing it in the context of clinical trial.
[00:47:20.800 --> 00:47:24.960] But at what point is something like, do we go, okay, we don't need to do any more clinical trials?
[00:47:24.960 --> 00:47:26.400] Well, I would say never.
[00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:37.400] I mean, since we always need to do more clinical trials, but the question is: when you're going from the existing evidence to practice guidelines, how do you do that, right?
[00:47:37.400 --> 00:47:39.160] How do you make that translation?
[00:47:39.160 --> 00:47:47.720] So I think the fortunate thing from my perspective as a science communicator is that we've been writing about this on science-based medicine for 15 years.
[00:47:47.720 --> 00:47:55.640] So we have a long track record of spelling out in excruciating detail what we think that relationship should be.
[00:47:55.640 --> 00:47:58.760] And it's complicated and nuanced.
[00:47:59.320 --> 00:48:02.440] But the good thing is, we could look back at that.
[00:48:02.440 --> 00:48:06.120] This is predating the whole trans issue, right?
[00:48:06.440 --> 00:48:13.560] So it's easy for us to say, this is what we've been saying for 15 years, and now we're just applying it to this one specific case, right?
[00:48:13.880 --> 00:48:20.120] So it does get to the heart of the difference between evidence-based medicine and science-based medicine.
[00:48:20.120 --> 00:48:23.000] So I'm going to just digress a little bit and talk about that.
[00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:32.680] Evidence-based medicine essentially is saying you shouldn't base treatment decisions on just plausibility or because it makes sense or anecdotal evidence or whatever.
[00:48:32.680 --> 00:48:36.760] It needs to be based on the best clinical evidence that we have.
[00:48:36.760 --> 00:48:38.920] And of course, we agree with that.
[00:48:38.920 --> 00:48:46.120] The problem with EBM is that it focuses too narrowly on just the clinical evidence.
[00:48:46.120 --> 00:48:54.760] And what our argument has been at science-based medicine that you need to include all of the evidence, all of the scientific evidence, not just the clinical evidence.
[00:48:54.760 --> 00:49:00.200] You need to include the preclinical evidence, the animal study, plausibility, physics, right?
[00:49:00.200 --> 00:49:12.680] You know, because what happened was homeopathy, acupuncture, Reiki, all of these things that had no prior plausibility or break the laws of physics were like, we love EBM.
[00:49:12.680 --> 00:49:26.480] All we have to do is just roll the dice on clinical trials without any consideration of prior plausibility and basically use that to promote our, then cherry-pick the positive results and use that to promote our nonsense.
[00:49:26.720 --> 00:49:31.040] It's like in science or fiction when you're like, a study says, and I'm like, a study can say anything.
[00:49:31.040 --> 00:49:32.160] Right, right, right.
[00:49:32.720 --> 00:49:35.360] But this cuts both ways, too, right?
[00:49:35.360 --> 00:49:39.920] Because you could also use this to turn skepticism into denial, right?
[00:49:39.920 --> 00:49:45.840] You could also say that, well, you don't have a double-blind placebo-controlled trial, therefore this is not evidence-based.
[00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:57.440] It's like, well, you have to put what evidence is necessary or what evidence is appropriate into the context of the specific treatment.
[00:49:57.440 --> 00:50:01.440] And there's a lot of ways in which you need to do that, but I'm going to focus on two.
[00:50:01.440 --> 00:50:06.640] One is, is it possible to do double-blind placebo-controlled trials?
[00:50:06.640 --> 00:50:10.720] Like, obviously, it's not possible to do it for most surgical interventions.
[00:50:10.720 --> 00:50:19.120] So, if your one threshold of evidence is you need to have double-blind placebo-controlled trials, you could basically rule out all of surgery, right, as not being tried.
[00:50:19.360 --> 00:50:21.120] You could also rule out like most of psychology.
[00:50:21.200 --> 00:50:23.120] That's always been a major issue with psychology.
[00:50:23.840 --> 00:50:28.320] You have to say, all right, for this type of intervention, what is the evidence that we can get?
[00:50:28.320 --> 00:50:34.880] And there may be a ceiling of evidence that we could theoretically get to for ethical and practical and pragmatic reasons.
[00:50:34.880 --> 00:50:40.080] The other issue is that you have to put it into the full context of risk versus benefit, right?
[00:50:40.080 --> 00:50:46.560] It's not just about the treatment, it's also about all the other choices available, including doing nothing.
[00:50:46.880 --> 00:50:53.440] Yeah, and sometimes, and especially in this population, sometimes doing nothing means children dying by suicide.
[00:50:53.440 --> 00:50:56.880] Yeah, so that so this is definitely a core issue here.
[00:50:56.880 --> 00:51:09.800] So, with the review, the review has come under withering criticism from American physicians who specialize in transgender care and even just pediatricians.
[00:51:09.800 --> 00:51:18.280] There was one review in particular, which I recommend, which I'll link to as part of the story, which did come out of Yale.
[00:51:18.520 --> 00:51:37.880] I'm not biased because it's out of Yale, it just happened to come out of Yale, but involved a lot of, you said the author group has collectively 86 years of experience caring for more than 4,800 transgender youth, published 278 peer-reviewed studies, 168 of which are in the field of gender-affirming care.
[00:51:37.880 --> 00:51:43.240] Most of the people involved in the CAS review do not have anywhere near that level of experience.
[00:51:43.880 --> 00:51:48.440] They are mainly pediatricians without experience in transgender care.
[00:51:48.440 --> 00:51:50.040] So, that's one of the criticisms.
[00:51:50.040 --> 00:52:03.560] But even that aside, the criticisms of the CAS review, again, there's a lot of them, and you can get lost in the weeds here, but I'm going to focus on two things specifically.
[00:52:03.560 --> 00:52:25.640] So, if your argument is that the current evidence base for gender-affirming care doesn't meet a threshold of evidence necessary to recommend it outside of clinical research, you have to ask the question: what threshold of evidence?
[00:52:26.040 --> 00:52:29.720] How did you determine that threshold of evidence?
[00:52:29.720 --> 00:52:35.640] And the bottom line is that they just made up a threshold of evidence.
[00:52:35.640 --> 00:52:37.440] Oh, it wasn't based on previous standards.
[00:52:37.640 --> 00:52:49.200] No, they deviated from established norms, established standards of translating evidence into practice guidelines.
[00:52:44.680 --> 00:52:51.520] They did not follow any standard.
[00:52:51.760 --> 00:53:02.000] They just made it up as they went along, which, of course, opens up the possibility that, well, you could have just arbitrarily set the threshold higher than whatever exists.
[00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:03.120] You know what I mean?
[00:53:04.240 --> 00:53:07.200] If you decide after you look at the evidence what the threshold is.
[00:53:07.600 --> 00:53:08.800] Well, that's p-hacking.
[00:53:09.360 --> 00:53:09.840] It's the equivalent of the.
[00:53:10.080 --> 00:53:11.600] It's a form of p-hacking.
[00:53:12.160 --> 00:53:14.160] It's not hacking the p, it's hacking something.
[00:53:14.240 --> 00:53:15.120] It's not hacking the threshold.
[00:53:15.600 --> 00:53:16.560] It's after the fact.
[00:53:16.560 --> 00:53:18.400] It's post-hoc determination.
[00:53:18.720 --> 00:53:19.520] Or ad hoc.
[00:53:19.520 --> 00:53:19.760] Yeah.
[00:53:19.760 --> 00:53:28.000] So rather than here are the established methods that we use to evaluate whether or not the threshold of evidence has been met.
[00:53:28.000 --> 00:53:32.480] And we're going to apply that established standard to this body of evidence.
[00:53:32.480 --> 00:53:33.680] They did not do that.
[00:53:33.680 --> 00:53:35.840] They violated standard practice.
[00:53:36.480 --> 00:53:37.040] It's not good.
[00:53:37.040 --> 00:53:37.760] Yeah, it's not good.
[00:53:37.760 --> 00:53:52.160] And if you look at the details, you know, it becomes pretty egregious because like for the using hormones for delaying puberty, they said, well, we need double-blind placebo-controlled trials, right?
[00:53:52.160 --> 00:53:58.080] And it's like, well, how are you going to blind whether or not somebody is going through puberty or not?
[00:53:58.080 --> 00:53:59.120] You can't.
[00:53:59.120 --> 00:54:07.920] So it's a classic, like they held it to a standard of evidence that really isn't practical and makes no sense, really.
[00:54:07.920 --> 00:54:10.080] So they kind of rigged the game.
[00:54:10.080 --> 00:54:18.640] They're like, there's not enough evidence to recommend this care if you exclude all this positive evidence over here that we arbitrarily are going to say doesn't count.
[00:54:18.640 --> 00:54:21.600] And so that's like the main criticism from U.S.
[00:54:21.600 --> 00:54:24.320] physicians as to why this was not a good review.
[00:54:24.320 --> 00:54:39.400] They basically were excluding all of this pretty good evidence of really positive outcomes from gender-affirming care that just didn't meet a kind of nonsensical threshold that isn't applicable to the context in which they're applying it.
[00:54:39.720 --> 00:54:47.640] And then, on top of it, saying, let's go ahead and get, you know, we can revisit this when you get more evidence, but make sure that evidence is either unethical or unreasonable to get.
[00:54:47.800 --> 00:54:48.360] Exactly.
[00:54:48.360 --> 00:54:49.480] Exactly.
[00:54:49.480 --> 00:55:09.720] The other thing is, is that, and this is what I just spoke about in terms of the context of risk versus benefit, is that they spent a lot of time talking about the risk of hormone therapy in prepubescent children, and they did not consider the risk of not treating those children, right?
[00:55:10.040 --> 00:55:12.920] And so that gets back to what you said, Kara.
[00:55:12.920 --> 00:55:17.480] If the risk of, and again, this is, I think, the inherent dilemma.
[00:55:17.480 --> 00:55:22.360] This is the inherent dilemma of gender-affirming care in minorities, right, in children.
[00:55:22.680 --> 00:55:30.600] So, for example, if you have someone who's 11, 12, pre-puberty, they have a trans identity.
[00:55:30.600 --> 00:55:44.440] And, you know, there are different subsets of people with a trans identity, but a lot of them, I think it's the majority, had their trans identity from as long as they can remember, a very young age, and it's remarkably persistent, right?
[00:55:44.440 --> 00:55:50.280] It has all the features of a this is how your brain developed, this is not a choice or a social contagion.
[00:55:50.280 --> 00:55:51.160] You know what I mean?
[00:55:51.160 --> 00:55:52.120] You're trans.
[00:55:52.120 --> 00:55:56.840] And their trans identity is remarkably stable over a very long period of time.
[00:55:56.840 --> 00:56:08.320] If you look at those subset of people and you have somebody who was, you know, born, identified male at birth, but whose gender identity is female, and they're staring down puberty.
[00:56:08.320 --> 00:56:16.640] You're essentially, you have to consider the risks of forcing somebody who identifies as a female to go through male puberty.
[00:56:16.960 --> 00:56:22.400] Right, because puberty blockers are largely reversible.
[00:56:22.400 --> 00:56:23.440] They deliberately.
[00:56:24.000 --> 00:56:25.520] It's 95% reversible.
[00:56:25.520 --> 00:56:28.480] There's still some debate about the risks and everything.
[00:56:28.560 --> 00:56:28.960] I get that.
[00:56:29.520 --> 00:56:32.560] Somebody that's mostly reversible.
[00:56:32.800 --> 00:56:33.520] Mostly reversible.
[00:56:33.520 --> 00:56:34.880] Puberty, never reversible.
[00:56:34.880 --> 00:56:35.680] Right, but puberty is not reverberated.
[00:56:35.760 --> 00:56:36.480] You can't reverse puberty.
[00:56:36.640 --> 00:56:37.360] Yeah, that's right.
[00:56:37.600 --> 00:56:45.360] And so, yeah, the dilemma is we would love if you could wait until they were 18 and they had years of time to really evaluate it, but they don't.
[00:56:45.680 --> 00:56:52.320] You're forced to make a decision one way or the other before they go through puberty.
[00:56:52.320 --> 00:56:56.640] And, right, especially if you're just talking about like this is the most benign medical thing you could do.
[00:56:56.720 --> 00:57:01.280] You're just delaying puberty to give them more time to figu
Prompt 2: Key Takeaways
Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.
Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...".
Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive.
IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}
Prompt 3: Segments
Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.
For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion
IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.
Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
"segments": [
{
"segment_title": "Topic Discussion",
"timestamp": "01:15:30",
"key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
"segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
}
]
}
Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.
Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:
Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)
DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names
IMPORTANT:
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.
Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
"media_mentions": [
{
"title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
"category": "Book",
"author_artist": "N/A",
"context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
"context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
"timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
}
]
}
If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}
Prompt 5: Context Setup
You are an expert data extractor tasked with analyzing a podcast transcript.
I will provide you with part 2 of 3 from a podcast transcript.
I will then ask you to extract different types of information from this content in subsequent messages. Please confirm you have received and understood the transcript content.
Transcript section:
ember, a very young age, and it's remarkably persistent, right?
[00:55:44.440 --> 00:55:50.280] It has all the features of a this is how your brain developed, this is not a choice or a social contagion.
[00:55:50.280 --> 00:55:51.160] You know what I mean?
[00:55:51.160 --> 00:55:52.120] You're trans.
[00:55:52.120 --> 00:55:56.840] And their trans identity is remarkably stable over a very long period of time.
[00:55:56.840 --> 00:56:08.320] If you look at those subset of people and you have somebody who was, you know, born, identified male at birth, but whose gender identity is female, and they're staring down puberty.
[00:56:08.320 --> 00:56:16.640] You're essentially, you have to consider the risks of forcing somebody who identifies as a female to go through male puberty.
[00:56:16.960 --> 00:56:22.400] Right, because puberty blockers are largely reversible.
[00:56:22.400 --> 00:56:23.440] They deliberately.
[00:56:24.000 --> 00:56:25.520] It's 95% reversible.
[00:56:25.520 --> 00:56:28.480] There's still some debate about the risks and everything.
[00:56:28.560 --> 00:56:28.960] I get that.
[00:56:29.520 --> 00:56:32.560] Somebody that's mostly reversible.
[00:56:32.800 --> 00:56:33.520] Mostly reversible.
[00:56:33.520 --> 00:56:34.880] Puberty, never reversible.
[00:56:34.880 --> 00:56:35.680] Right, but puberty is not reverberated.
[00:56:35.760 --> 00:56:36.480] You can't reverse puberty.
[00:56:36.640 --> 00:56:37.360] Yeah, that's right.
[00:56:37.600 --> 00:56:45.360] And so, yeah, the dilemma is we would love if you could wait until they were 18 and they had years of time to really evaluate it, but they don't.
[00:56:45.680 --> 00:56:52.320] You're forced to make a decision one way or the other before they go through puberty.
[00:56:52.320 --> 00:56:56.640] And, right, especially if you're just talking about like this is the most benign medical thing you could do.
[00:56:56.720 --> 00:57:01.280] You're just delaying puberty to give them more time to figure out if this is what they really want to do.
[00:57:01.280 --> 00:57:25.280] But if you make them go through puberty, now that you have irreversible biological changes that may conflict with their gender identity, if now as an adult, if you say you have to wait till you're 18, they want to reverse those biological changes, you've now said you have to go through multiple, more invasive surgeries with less good results, right?
[00:57:25.280 --> 00:57:38.080] So you're basically condemning them to multiple invasive surgeries with imperfect results because you denied them a much more effective treatment because they were quote unquote too young to get that treatment.
[00:57:38.080 --> 00:57:41.120] And you're ensuring something called gender dysphoria at that point.
[00:57:41.440 --> 00:57:43.840] You're ensuring that they get a diagnosis of gender dysphoria.
[00:57:44.000 --> 00:57:45.840] And of course there's all the psychological stress.
[00:57:45.840 --> 00:57:52.560] Even if they do do gender-affirming care as they're an adult, it doesn't save them from all the psychological distress that it caused.
[00:57:52.560 --> 00:57:59.840] And yes, there is an increased risk of suicide, although exactly what that risk is is still a matter of research, and we should continue to research that.
[00:57:59.880 --> 00:58:11.000] But the numbers are certainly trending in that direction, that it has a positive impact on the survival and the psychology of people who get gender-affirming care.
[00:58:11.320 --> 00:58:12.840] And that's all from internal.
[00:58:12.840 --> 00:58:28.440] I think there's a whole other secondary thing that's probably very rarely considered, which is that gender-based violence is highest among, or not among, but towards trans individuals, and especially trans individuals who, quote unquote, don't pass.
[00:58:28.760 --> 00:58:37.080] Because individuals who are trans, who the general public doesn't know is trans, they are not committing violence against them.
[00:58:37.080 --> 00:58:37.480] Right.
[00:58:37.480 --> 00:58:41.960] The violence is highest towards, you know, we think gender-based violence is highest towards women.
[00:58:41.960 --> 00:58:44.520] It's actually highest towards trans women.
[00:58:44.840 --> 00:58:51.160] And that's not something they can control, what they look like, especially if they were denied puberty delays.
[00:58:52.520 --> 00:58:56.760] So, you know, that's my take on the cash review.
[00:58:56.760 --> 00:59:09.160] It's consistent with what most, with this review coming out of Yale, what many of the gender, you know, the physicians who treat transgender youth are saying about it in the United States.
[00:59:09.160 --> 00:59:12.120] And, you know, I think the criticisms are legitimate.
[00:59:12.120 --> 00:59:17.880] And if you're going to defend the position of the cash review, you have to seriously address those criticisms.
[00:59:17.880 --> 00:59:22.520] You know, why did you choose that standard of that threshold of evidence?
[00:59:22.840 --> 00:59:29.400] Why are you demanding types of evidence that really can't realistically exist in this situation?
[00:59:29.400 --> 00:59:32.280] Why are you ignoring all the risks of not treating?
[00:59:32.600 --> 00:59:35.640] Again, I acknowledge this is a tricky area.
[00:59:35.640 --> 00:59:38.120] This is a huge dilemma.
[00:59:38.120 --> 00:59:39.000] But you know what?
[00:59:39.000 --> 00:59:47.760] You have a group of experts who are thoughtfully going over all of these issues, trying to do the best that they can for these kids.
[00:59:48.080 --> 00:59:58.080] And I see no reason to politicize this whole thing, to get governments involved in sort of telling physicians and the medical community what they can and cannot do.
[00:59:58.320 --> 01:00:08.320] The history of the government, in a draconian way, prescribing to medical professionals what they can and cannot do is not good.
[01:00:08.320 --> 01:00:09.920] That's not a good history.
[01:00:10.160 --> 01:00:22.800] Certainly, in my experience with any laws being passed in the last 20 years, they've all been disastrous, completely against the evidence, completely against science and skepticism.
[01:00:22.800 --> 01:00:23.440] You know what I mean?
[01:00:25.040 --> 01:00:27.360] You don't want to politicize this.
[01:00:27.600 --> 01:00:36.000] The CAS review spends a lot of time complaining about how politicized it's been, but I don't think they've actually turned the heat down on this.
[01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:38.320] I think they turned the heat up, if anything.
[01:00:38.320 --> 01:00:52.480] And they've fueled, I mean, the CASH review has been used now repeatedly in many contexts for anti-trans legislation and for restricting gender-affirming care, even criminalizing it.
[01:00:52.880 --> 01:00:59.040] I think it was very unfortunate that the review, I think, bungled it.
[01:00:59.040 --> 01:01:08.320] I think they dropped the ball in a big way and that it's being kind of exploited by, you know, to fuel this basically culture war that we're in the middle of.
[01:01:08.320 --> 01:01:22.640] And the people who are suffering are, you know, this is the trans community directly because do you think that the CATS review itself and the authors and the architects of the review had a specific agenda?
[01:01:22.640 --> 01:01:22.960] I don't know.
[01:01:23.360 --> 01:01:23.840] I thought about that.
[01:01:24.000 --> 01:01:24.640] It's hard to tell.
[01:01:24.640 --> 01:01:25.040] I don't know.
[01:01:25.040 --> 01:01:25.840] It's hard to tell.
[01:01:25.840 --> 01:01:31.400] I do think, maybe not an agenda, but I think a bias because we're all based, right?
[01:01:29.200 --> 01:01:32.360] And we all have a bias.
[01:01:29.360 --> 01:01:35.480] Every piece of science that's ever been documented has bias.
[01:01:36.200 --> 01:01:40.520] And I do think it's just my personal, this is my take on it since you bring it up.
[01:01:40.520 --> 01:01:48.120] Is that I just think people in general have a, you know, we've lived in a binary world for thousands of years, right?
[01:01:48.120 --> 01:01:50.680] Basically, culturally speaking.
[01:01:50.680 --> 01:01:54.200] And, but the reality is it's not strictly binary.
[01:01:54.200 --> 01:02:01.400] And now that 0.1% or 1% or whatever it is of people who are like, hello, we're here.
[01:02:01.800 --> 01:02:03.160] Yeah, we've existed this whole time.
[01:02:03.640 --> 01:02:05.080] We've been here the whole time.
[01:02:05.080 --> 01:02:13.160] And it's like, you know, it would be kind of nice if we could live our lives and sort of fit into this world that has been created.
[01:02:13.160 --> 01:02:23.080] And people have a really hard time wrapping their head around the fact that gender and sex are not strictly binary.
[01:02:23.080 --> 01:02:25.320] And they just can't handle it.
[01:02:25.640 --> 01:02:27.080] Yeah, they really can't.
[01:02:28.040 --> 01:02:30.120] It's scary to see what some of these people are saying.
[01:02:30.440 --> 01:02:31.640] It's so simple to them.
[01:02:31.640 --> 01:02:34.040] Either you're a man or you're a woman, and that's it.
[01:02:34.040 --> 01:02:35.160] And that's where it ends with them.
[01:02:35.160 --> 01:02:37.720] It's like, it's just reading these comments today.
[01:02:37.720 --> 01:02:39.720] It's just like, oh, it's so much more nuanced.
[01:02:39.720 --> 01:02:42.040] And I don't think they even care to dig any deeper.
[01:02:42.040 --> 01:02:42.520] Yeah, I know.
[01:02:43.080 --> 01:03:00.280] And what's funny is when you read the comments, which of course I do more than I should, is that you have so many people confidently and very derogatorily saying, like, again, trying to take the sort of scientific or skeptical higher grounds, like, of course, there's just two sexes.
[01:03:00.280 --> 01:03:02.680] And it all comes down to this, right?
[01:03:02.680 --> 01:03:07.320] But they each cite something different and mutually exclusive.
[01:03:07.640 --> 01:03:07.960] Right?
[01:03:07.960 --> 01:03:14.440] Like, well, like, they're proposing a range of standards which are not really the same.
[01:03:14.440 --> 01:03:17.040] Like, it's all either your XY or your XX.
[01:03:17.040 --> 01:03:17.600] That's it.
[01:03:17.600 --> 01:03:17.920] That's it.
[01:03:14.600 --> 01:03:18.720] It's a very, very simple thing.
[01:03:14.680 --> 01:03:21.120] Which is insane because then it's like, okay, so there's no Kleinfelds.
[01:03:14.920 --> 01:03:24.000] So, what about all the people who are XXY?
[01:03:24.000 --> 01:03:25.040] What if you're XY?
[01:03:25.680 --> 01:03:26.480] What if you're XY?
[01:03:26.560 --> 01:03:29.280] What if you're, this is my favorite example.
[01:03:29.280 --> 01:03:32.400] You're XY, but you have complete androgen insensitivity.
[01:03:32.400 --> 01:03:36.720] So, even though you're XY, you are otherwise indistinguishable from a woman.
[01:03:36.720 --> 01:03:38.160] Are you a man or a woman?
[01:03:38.160 --> 01:03:39.920] Is that person a man or a woman?
[01:03:39.920 --> 01:03:45.840] There is no correct answer to that question because it all depends on how you decide arbitrarily to define it.
[01:03:45.840 --> 01:03:47.600] What's your defining characteristic?
[01:03:47.600 --> 01:03:49.440] It's not whether or not you have a penis.
[01:03:49.440 --> 01:03:50.880] It's not your chromosomes.
[01:03:50.880 --> 01:03:52.400] It's not your hormones.
[01:03:52.640 --> 01:03:56.960] There's no one thing because they don't always line up one way or the other.
[01:03:57.440 --> 01:03:57.840] And the idea.
[01:03:58.160 --> 01:03:59.200] Yeah, or not.
[01:03:59.200 --> 01:03:59.600] Right.
[01:03:59.600 --> 01:04:06.080] And the idea, like, here's the thing: if Pluto could tell us what Pluto was, wouldn't we just listen to Pluto?
[01:04:06.400 --> 01:04:08.240] Like, and that's kind of how I've always been.
[01:04:08.400 --> 01:04:09.440] Yeah, this is what it comes down to.
[01:04:10.240 --> 01:04:11.680] This is what I think it comes down to.
[01:04:11.680 --> 01:04:13.520] It comes down to brain denial.
[01:04:13.520 --> 01:04:22.400] Because basically, if you really, if you push these people against the wall and you dig down to what they're saying, they're saying that feelings don't count, right?
[01:04:22.400 --> 01:04:23.680] Because they're just feelings.
[01:04:23.680 --> 01:04:24.800] Feelings aren't real.
[01:04:24.800 --> 01:04:26.400] Your penis is real, right?
[01:04:26.400 --> 01:04:27.680] Or your vagina is real.
[01:04:28.480 --> 01:04:29.120] Yikes.
[01:04:29.120 --> 01:04:30.960] But that's basically what they're saying.
[01:04:30.960 --> 01:04:38.400] But the unstated major premise there is that feelings are all psychocultural, social, right?
[01:04:38.400 --> 01:04:42.080] It's like, well, sometimes feelings are brain biology.
[01:04:42.080 --> 01:04:45.120] And they're just assuming that it's not brain biology.
[01:04:45.120 --> 01:04:47.840] Yeah, feelings are things that happen in your brain.
[01:04:47.840 --> 01:04:48.240] Yeah.
[01:04:48.640 --> 01:04:57.600] And like, I think it also comes down to something, even, and, you know, this is more psychological, maybe even sociological, philosophical.
[01:04:57.600 --> 01:05:01.720] It comes down to huma to like humanity, right?
[01:04:59.600 --> 01:05:05.880] Because it's one thing to say, I disagree with your religion.
[01:05:06.200 --> 01:05:14.840] It's another thing, you know, it's one thing to say, I disagree with certain, you know, experiences or certain things that you do in your life.
[01:05:14.840 --> 01:05:18.120] It's another thing to say, I deny your existence.
[01:05:18.440 --> 01:05:20.920] And I think it blows people.
[01:05:20.920 --> 01:05:29.800] Like, can you imagine, and there's a lot of pretty overt racism in this country, but can you imagine if somebody just said, black people don't exist?
[01:05:31.480 --> 01:05:33.000] You just don't exist.
[01:05:33.000 --> 01:05:33.560] Right.
[01:05:33.560 --> 01:05:36.040] You are, you may identify as black.
[01:05:36.040 --> 01:05:37.400] Other people may call you black.
[01:05:37.400 --> 01:05:39.480] But like, listen to me, you're white.
[01:05:39.640 --> 01:05:40.760] You don't exist.
[01:05:40.760 --> 01:05:42.120] Blackness doesn't exist.
[01:05:42.120 --> 01:05:45.400] Like, how nobody would be okay with that.
[01:05:45.400 --> 01:05:47.880] And yet that's exactly what's happening here.
[01:05:47.880 --> 01:05:57.720] Well, I mean, not too long ago, it was sort of a dominant opinion that sexual orientation was, there was only two, or really, you know, one correct sexual orientation.
[01:05:57.960 --> 01:05:58.120] Right.
[01:05:58.120 --> 01:06:01.240] And that everything else was a mental illness or an aberrant choice.
[01:06:01.240 --> 01:06:06.600] It was a delusion or was a cultural choice or was an affectation or whatever.
[01:06:06.600 --> 01:06:10.920] That was a dominant opinion up until fairly recently, you know, culturally speaking.
[01:06:10.920 --> 01:06:11.160] Right.
[01:06:11.160 --> 01:06:13.400] Yeah, then again, that was brain denial.
[01:06:13.400 --> 01:06:15.320] It was like, well, how you feel doesn't really count.
[01:06:15.320 --> 01:06:16.600] It's not real.
[01:06:17.560 --> 01:06:28.840] It's actually personality, like core personality things, like how you identify is like, that's exactly the thing that's dominantly biological and has to do with how your brain developed.
[01:06:29.080 --> 01:06:30.760] Not your own social.
[01:06:31.080 --> 01:06:31.320] Right.
[01:06:31.640 --> 01:06:32.760] It's like personality.
[01:06:32.760 --> 01:06:33.320] We talked about this.
[01:06:33.320 --> 01:06:35.800] Personalities are remarkably stable.
[01:06:35.800 --> 01:06:36.920] You're born with your personality.
[01:06:36.920 --> 01:06:39.480] That's why we call them and you can't change it.
[01:06:39.800 --> 01:06:42.280] That's why we call them traits, not states.
[01:06:42.280 --> 01:06:43.240] Yes, exactly.
[01:06:43.240 --> 01:06:43.640] Yeah.
[01:06:43.960 --> 01:06:55.680] Steve, I noticed that a lot of people equate people saying, you know, for example, I know by appearance I'm male, but I feel female.
[01:06:55.840 --> 01:06:57.600] And that's what they're denying.
[01:06:57.600 --> 01:07:04.800] But they equate that with, well, today I feel, I'm Italian, but I feel Irish.
[01:07:05.200 --> 01:07:07.200] You know, they equate those two things.
[01:07:07.200 --> 01:07:10.400] That just because you feel it does not make it a thing.
[01:07:10.560 --> 01:07:11.920] It's a false analogy.
[01:07:13.120 --> 01:07:14.160] That's common as hell.
[01:07:14.160 --> 01:07:24.560] Yeah, because you're basically confusing a biological trait with a cultural, literally something that's cultural, right?
[01:07:25.840 --> 01:07:28.960] If they're saying that they feel genetically Irish, what does that mean?
[01:07:28.960 --> 01:07:34.320] The thing is that that's not amenable to developmental changes, right?
[01:07:34.640 --> 01:07:38.480] But we know that the brain is a sexual organ, right?
[01:07:38.480 --> 01:07:41.520] We know that the brain development is influenced by sex hormones.
[01:07:41.520 --> 01:07:49.360] We know that you're born with traits that relate to biological sex that have to do with your brain development.
[01:07:49.360 --> 01:07:55.360] And you cannot convert somebody out of their basic neurological trait.
[01:07:55.360 --> 01:07:56.160] You know what I mean?
[01:07:56.160 --> 01:08:00.080] Whether that's their sexual orientation or apparently their gender identity.
[01:08:00.400 --> 01:08:07.520] There hasn't been as much research on it yet as there is about sexual orientation, but that's what everything is pointing in that direction.
[01:08:07.520 --> 01:08:14.000] It certainly is, I think, the most parsimonious conclusion at this point in time, based upon the evidence.
[01:08:14.000 --> 01:08:28.400] And certainly, there is no reason to assume that gender identity is dominantly a social construct or it's primarily a social contagion or a choice or a fad or whatever.
[01:08:28.400 --> 01:08:33.640] No, because, yeah, the incidence is persistent across culture.
[01:08:33.800 --> 01:08:38.280] Like, there's a lot of good evidence to show that that's not the case.
[01:08:38.440 --> 01:08:49.000] And the truth of the matter is, I mean, to even go beyond that, like that false equivalency, that comparison that you brought up, Bob, okay, I'm Italian, but I identify as Irish.
[01:08:49.000 --> 01:08:50.360] Who gives a shit?
[01:08:50.680 --> 01:08:54.280] Like, even if that is true, we don't have any laws.
[01:08:54.840 --> 01:09:01.080] There are literally no laws on the books to prevent somebody from saying, I was born Italian, but I identify as Irish.
[01:09:01.080 --> 01:09:03.560] I'm going to go down to the city hall.
[01:09:03.560 --> 01:09:05.640] I'm going to change my name.
[01:09:06.120 --> 01:09:07.960] I'm going to live my life as an Irish.
[01:09:08.040 --> 01:09:08.920] Sure, go right ahead.
[01:09:08.920 --> 01:09:09.640] We don't care.
[01:09:10.040 --> 01:09:11.000] Why did we care so much?
[01:09:11.800 --> 01:09:12.760] There are people who do that.
[01:09:12.760 --> 01:09:19.560] There are people who are genetically one nationality, but grew up and for whatever reason identify with another one.
[01:09:19.560 --> 01:09:20.280] Good for you.
[01:09:20.280 --> 01:09:21.560] Nobody has any problem with that.
[01:09:22.680 --> 01:09:27.720] This is the same thing back in the 60s and 70s with the gay community.
[01:09:27.720 --> 01:09:28.120] Yeah.
[01:09:28.440 --> 01:09:32.280] People, first off, it's foreign to people.
[01:09:32.520 --> 01:09:35.880] It disrupts the way that they think about the world.
[01:09:36.200 --> 01:09:38.280] It makes them uncomfortable.
[01:09:38.280 --> 01:09:42.280] And for a lot of people, I think it's emotionally very complicated for them.
[01:09:42.840 --> 01:10:10.280] So, on the inconsistency point, I'm going to end on this because that's another angle to the cast review: is that you could also take the standards that they applied and apply them across medicine and show how absolutely inconsistent it is that there are so many treatments that are accepted as the standard of care with the same or lower threshold of evidence as current gender-affirming care.
[01:10:10.480 --> 01:10:12.040] So that's a tell.
[01:10:12.440 --> 01:10:13.160] It's a big tell.
[01:10:13.160 --> 01:10:13.960] Yeah, absolutely.
[01:10:14.200 --> 01:10:14.520] All right.
[01:10:14.640 --> 01:10:15.920] Well, that was a big topic.
[01:10:15.920 --> 01:10:16.720] Let's move on.
[01:10:16.720 --> 01:10:17.200] That's good, though.
[01:10:17.680 --> 01:10:20.640] All right, Evan, give us an update on mammoth DNA.
[01:10:14.680 --> 01:10:21.680] Yeah, mammoth DNA.
[01:10:22.160 --> 01:10:23.040] The latest and greatest.
[01:10:23.040 --> 01:10:24.080] The woolly mammoth.
[01:10:24.080 --> 01:10:26.800] You know, it went extinct about, what, 10,000 years ago?
[01:10:26.800 --> 01:10:28.880] I think it's arguably the first.
[01:10:29.200 --> 01:10:30.880] Yeah, or earlier, Bob.
[01:10:31.360 --> 01:10:37.680] I've heard of isolated instances like even like a crazy, like five or six thousand years ago, I think.
[01:10:37.680 --> 01:10:38.080] Yeah.
[01:10:38.080 --> 01:10:39.200] I read that years ago, though.
[01:10:39.440 --> 01:10:40.240] I looked it up today.
[01:10:40.800 --> 01:10:43.120] They seem to be having it, capping it at 10.
[01:10:43.280 --> 01:10:43.920] Okay, all right.
[01:10:44.160 --> 01:10:45.600] So I haven't looked at it in a while.
[01:10:45.760 --> 01:10:49.520] I think it's arguably the most well-known extinct animal.
[01:10:49.520 --> 01:10:58.400] And therefore, whenever scientists learn more information about the shaggy beasts of the Siberian tundra, it jumps to the front of science news headlines.
[01:10:58.400 --> 01:11:05.920] And this week is no different because loudly and proudly, yet another scientific advancement in the understanding of the woolly mammoth has been made.
[01:11:05.920 --> 01:11:22.720] A team of researchers from Rice University in Texas have spearheaded an international study revealing that a fossilized chromosome from a 52,000-year-old mammoth that was essentially freeze-dried after it died in Siberia.
[01:11:22.720 --> 01:11:24.960] Okay, well, you know, that's interesting.
[01:11:24.960 --> 01:11:30.320] But have we already delved deep into the frozen matter and DNA of woolly mammoth remains?
[01:11:30.320 --> 01:11:35.440] Well, yes, they have, but this particular sample, they hit the DNA mother load.
[01:11:35.440 --> 01:11:36.000] Yep.
[01:11:36.000 --> 01:11:45.280] In prior extractions, woolly mammoth DNA samples collected would be in these very tiny fragments, no more than 100 or so base pairs at a time.
[01:11:45.280 --> 01:11:55.040] But this discovery, in particular, this freeze-dried sample, the DNA was preserved so well the yield was 100 million base pairs.
[01:11:55.040 --> 01:11:59.040] 100 million base pairs, possibly more, and possibly more.
[01:11:59.040 --> 01:12:01.960] But they're confident that they got 100 million base pairs out of it.
[01:12:01.960 --> 01:12:02.520] Yep.
[01:11:59.760 --> 01:12:03.640] That's gargantuan.
[01:12:04.840 --> 01:12:09.080] In fact, Jay told me the other, just a few seconds ago, it was mammoth.
[01:12:10.360 --> 01:12:12.280] That way, if you don't like that joke, you can.
[01:12:12.760 --> 01:12:20.440] Now, this sample shows how the genome was organized in living cells and reveals what genes were active in its skin tissue.
[01:12:20.440 --> 01:12:20.840] Yep.
[01:12:20.840 --> 01:12:25.080] The results of the study were published in the journal Cell, C-E-L-L.
[01:12:25.400 --> 01:12:32.840] The paper is titled Three-Dimensional Genome Architecture Persists in a 52,000-year-old Woolly Mammoth Skin Sample.
[01:12:32.840 --> 01:12:37.640] This is, here's the highlights from the paper's summary paragraph.
[01:12:37.640 --> 01:12:47.320] We use paleohy C to map chromatin contacts and assemble its genome, yielding 28 chromosome-length scaffolds.
[01:12:47.320 --> 01:12:56.120] Chromosome territories, compartments, loops, bar bodies, and inactive X chromosome superdomains persist.
[01:12:56.120 --> 01:13:04.040] The active and inactive genome compartments in mammoth skin more closely resemble Asian elephant skin than other elephant tissues.
[01:13:04.040 --> 01:13:07.320] Our analysis uncovers a new biology.
[01:13:07.320 --> 01:13:15.560] Differences in the compartmentalization reveal genes whose transcript was potentially altered in mammoths versus elephants.
[01:13:15.560 --> 01:13:22.840] So the inactive chromosome, the mammoth, has a tetratic, tetratic T-E-T-R-A-D-I-C.
[01:13:22.840 --> 01:13:23.880] Like a tetrad.
[01:13:23.880 --> 01:13:24.440] Yeah.
[01:13:24.440 --> 01:13:27.800] Not bipartite like human and mouse.
[01:13:27.800 --> 01:13:29.000] Yeah, it's a group of four.
[01:13:29.000 --> 01:13:29.320] Yeah.
[01:13:29.320 --> 01:13:45.120] So we hypothesize that shortly after this mammoth's death, the sample spontaneously freeze-dried in the Siberian cold, leading to a glass transition that preserved sub-fossils of ancient chromosomes at nanometer scales.
[01:13:44.520 --> 01:13:46.400] Okay, so a couple of things here.
[01:13:46.720 --> 01:13:55.520] Paleohy C, that is a high-throughput genomic and epigenomic technique to capture chromatin conformation.
[01:13:55.520 --> 01:14:03.600] And chromatin is a complex of DNA and proteins found in the nucleus of eukaryotic cells and forms, of course, chromosomes.
[01:14:03.600 --> 01:14:14.880] Now, the team determined it had 28 pairs of chromosomes, and that is significant because it's the same number as the mammoth's closest living relatives, modern elephants.
[01:14:14.880 --> 01:14:21.120] So I think that speaks to the robustness or the almost the completion of what they were able to get.
[01:14:21.120 --> 01:14:24.960] The chromosomes were structurally preserved down to the nanometer scale, Bob.
[01:14:24.960 --> 01:14:25.280] Yep.
[01:14:25.840 --> 01:14:27.280] Billionth of a meter, baby.
[01:14:27.280 --> 01:14:28.320] Yeah, baby.
[01:14:28.640 --> 01:14:36.080] The chromosomes retain structural features similar to modern chromosomes, including chromatin loops as small as 50 nanometers.
[01:14:36.080 --> 01:14:44.640] And the three-dimensional arrangement of the DNA fragments in the fossil was shown to be frozen in place for tens of millennia, preserving the entire chromosome structure.
[01:14:44.880 --> 01:14:55.680] Olga Duchenko, who's an assistant professor of molecular and human genetics at Rice University, says that fossil chromosomes are a game changer.
[01:14:55.680 --> 01:15:06.720] Knowing the shape of an organism's chromosomes allows us to assemble the entire DNA sequence of extinct creatures, enabling insights that were previously unpossible.
[01:15:07.200 --> 01:15:07.920] Impossible.
[01:15:08.960 --> 01:15:10.560] Isn't that weird how that triggers in my head?
[01:15:11.920 --> 01:15:15.280] I automatically see unpossible when I read impossible.
[01:15:15.280 --> 01:15:15.800] Oh, my god.
[01:15:16.160 --> 01:15:17.720] The shape of the chromosomes.
[01:15:18.040 --> 01:15:18.280] Yeah.
[01:15:18.520 --> 01:15:20.480] The shape is actually critical.
[01:15:20.480 --> 01:15:21.840] Yeah, apparently so.
[01:15:21.840 --> 01:15:22.560] It allows scientists.
[01:15:22.800 --> 01:15:24.880] If you had the sequence, you'd be good, but the shape?
[01:15:25.280 --> 01:15:29.800] Yeah, apparently the shape is, in fact, a big part of this.
[01:15:29.800 --> 01:15:32.200] And they used, what did they use?
[01:15:32.200 --> 01:15:33.160] I'll jump ahead to that.
[01:15:33.160 --> 01:15:33.560] What was it?
[01:15:29.360 --> 01:15:34.760] The 3D imaging.
[01:15:36.120 --> 01:15:51.240] In order to put this together, Venetius Contessoto, who is a research scientist involved in the project, said it's the first time we have been able to turn back the clock, as it were, to look at chromosomes of extinct species in full 3D.
[01:15:51.480 --> 01:15:55.480] The results are remarkably similar to those of modern elephant chromosomes.
[01:15:55.480 --> 01:16:02.040] And scientists were able to create this 3D model of the chromosomes without relying on existing elephant DNA.
[01:16:02.520 --> 01:16:04.280] All firsts, apparently.
[01:16:04.360 --> 01:16:05.080] Or frauds.
[01:16:05.080 --> 01:16:06.040] As part of this.
[01:16:06.040 --> 01:16:07.160] Yeah, right, exactly.
[01:16:07.160 --> 01:16:08.200] Exactly.
[01:16:08.200 --> 01:16:14.760] So, yeah, and they were able to see which genes were active through this chromosome compartmentalization.
[01:16:14.760 --> 01:16:21.080] The genes whose activation state were altered compared to the modern elephants were associated with what?
[01:16:21.080 --> 01:16:22.920] Hair follicle development.
[01:16:22.920 --> 01:16:23.160] Yeah.
[01:16:23.640 --> 01:16:24.040] Yeah.
[01:16:24.040 --> 01:16:26.280] So the woolly and the woolly mammoth, right?
[01:16:26.280 --> 01:16:27.240] The woolly part.
[01:16:27.960 --> 01:16:33.160] All that hair that the modern elephants don't have for the most part.
[01:16:33.160 --> 01:16:38.120] And here's another aspect to the news that's also groundbreaking and fascinating.
[01:16:38.120 --> 01:16:45.080] So the researchers ask: so, how could ancient chromosomes remain intact for 52,000 years?
[01:16:45.080 --> 01:16:55.000] So what they did is they proposed that the chromosomes were in a state resembling glass, where individual DNA fragments couldn't move far, preserving their structure.
[01:16:55.000 --> 01:17:07.640] And going back to that summary, here's what they wrote: It's known as glass transition, a physical process whereby factors like cooling and dehydration can effectively arrest the diffusion of the molecules in a material.
[01:17:07.640 --> 01:17:17.120] We hypothesize that this glass transition was induced by spontaneous freeze-drying of the woolly mammoth tissue shortly after death in the cold Siberian climate.
[01:17:17.440 --> 01:17:29.600] Yeah, so essentially they said, like, well, this glass-like state of the mammoth remains induced by cooling and dehydration is like that of the jerky we often eat as a snack.
[01:17:29.920 --> 01:17:30.480] What?
[01:17:30.480 --> 01:17:34.000] Yeah, basically they found a mammoth jerky.
[01:17:35.680 --> 01:17:40.720] And when they say glass, they do mean glass because you can shatter this stuff.
[01:17:41.520 --> 01:17:42.000] Right?
[01:17:42.640 --> 01:17:44.400] So it's, but it's very resilient.
[01:17:44.400 --> 01:17:48.560] While it shattered like glass, the chromosomes remained intact inside.
[01:17:49.040 --> 01:17:50.960] I wonder what the upper limit of that is.
[01:17:50.960 --> 01:17:55.760] Like, could we have that DNA preserved in that fashion from dinosaurs?
[01:17:56.720 --> 01:17:59.600] Of course, I would be extending it to millions of years, which is dubious.
[01:17:59.600 --> 01:18:00.640] But I just wonder.
[01:18:00.640 --> 01:18:06.960] I'm curious if that extends the upper limit of DNA that we could possibly reconstruct.
[01:18:06.960 --> 01:18:09.280] But how are we going to find that, though, right?
[01:18:09.280 --> 01:18:18.480] I mean, it's one thing to be 52,000 years old as a specimen, another thing to be 65 plus million years old as a specimen.
[01:18:19.840 --> 01:18:25.200] I mean, if it happened once, I'm sure it happened many times throughout history.
[01:18:25.520 --> 01:18:26.560] Did it survive, though?
[01:18:26.560 --> 01:18:35.920] Did it not only maintain its integrity, but was it not destroyed by tectonic processes or so many other things, right?
[01:18:36.240 --> 01:18:37.280] Could have interfered with that.
[01:18:37.280 --> 01:18:40.640] Did it stay in the glass-like, how long did it maintain its glass-like state?
[01:18:40.800 --> 01:18:41.040] Right.
[01:18:41.040 --> 01:18:44.240] It had to maintain that state for, you know, a million years.
[01:18:44.560 --> 01:18:46.560] But that would be fascinating, Steve.
[01:18:46.720 --> 01:18:50.960] The article didn't really talk about, you know, bringing back the woolly mammoth.
[01:18:50.960 --> 01:18:52.400] That's not really what this was about.
[01:18:52.400 --> 01:18:54.400] It was just about these techniques.
[01:18:54.560 --> 01:19:00.360] Well, you know, I mean, they touched on it very briefly, but, you know, that's really not what this was about.
[01:18:59.840 --> 01:19:03.880] So, but that's what the main thing going through my head: like, oh, this is cool.
[01:19:04.680 --> 01:19:06.440] When are they going to put one?
[01:19:06.440 --> 01:19:09.240] When are they going to de-extinct the mammoth?
[01:19:09.240 --> 01:19:12.920] Yeah, which we've talked about in critical prior episodes.
[01:19:12.920 --> 01:19:15.720] Yeah, but not in light of this new evidence.
[01:19:15.720 --> 01:19:16.440] True.
[01:19:16.440 --> 01:19:17.960] No, you're right, Bob.
[01:19:18.280 --> 01:19:25.160] Here's my fantasy: Can they bring it back, but can they make it like dog-sized so that you can have a little pet woolly mammoth in your house?
[01:19:25.160 --> 01:19:25.560] Oh, my God.
[01:19:25.720 --> 01:19:26.040] So cute.
[01:19:27.240 --> 01:19:27.880] Oh, my God.
[01:19:27.880 --> 01:19:28.680] Oh, my God.
[01:19:28.680 --> 01:19:28.920] Right?
[01:19:28.920 --> 01:19:30.120] Wouldn't that be adorable?
[01:19:30.840 --> 01:19:35.640] And you wouldn't have to worry about it, you know, wreaking havoc on the environment.
[01:19:35.640 --> 01:19:36.920] Otherwise, what are you going to do?
[01:19:36.920 --> 01:19:41.080] Release a bunch of these enormous creatures into the tundra again?
[01:19:41.400 --> 01:19:43.000] You'd have all kinds of problems, which we've seen.
[01:19:43.480 --> 01:19:45.640] I'd still worry about it if they were dog-sized.
[01:19:45.720 --> 01:19:46.680] You think so?
[01:19:46.680 --> 01:19:47.960] 100%.
[01:19:48.440 --> 01:19:50.760] People would be like, wow, I thought this was a good idea.
[01:19:50.760 --> 01:19:54.440] This made a terrible pet, and then release it into the wild.
[01:19:56.840 --> 01:20:05.240] I think maybe we should look at every human decision ever made with regard to domestic kits and base our decisions off of that.
[01:20:05.240 --> 01:20:07.080] Probably, but I don't know.
[01:20:08.760 --> 01:20:11.560] It's so cute.
[01:20:11.880 --> 01:20:19.320] And you can grow, and you can modify them so they don't grow tusks, so they wouldn't become victims of poaching and other things.
[01:20:19.320 --> 01:20:21.160] They probably still smell really bad.
[01:20:21.800 --> 01:20:26.120] Yeah, but I've known some people who have had ferrets, and those things smell awful.
[01:20:26.360 --> 01:20:27.560] They used to keep them in the house.
[01:20:27.720 --> 01:20:28.760] Oh, boy, did they ever.
[01:20:29.080 --> 01:20:30.520] It was totally tolerable.
[01:20:30.520 --> 01:20:33.640] But imagine if it was as big as a dog.
[01:20:33.640 --> 01:20:35.880] You know, elephants are smarter than dogs.
[01:20:35.880 --> 01:20:39.160] Imagine having a super-trained mammoth dog.
[01:20:39.160 --> 01:20:40.200] Yes, Bob.
[01:20:40.200 --> 01:20:41.240] Now you're talking.
[01:20:42.120 --> 01:20:42.840] A carrot.
[01:20:43.240 --> 01:20:44.560] Poor Kara.
[01:20:45.840 --> 01:20:47.120] Of course, you would joke.
[01:20:47.280 --> 01:20:50.080] You're talking about training it in a very nice way.
[01:20:44.120 --> 01:20:50.880] Right, right.
[01:20:51.520 --> 01:20:53.280] Yeah, that's the problem Kara had with it.
[01:20:54.720 --> 01:20:58.320] You weren't nice when you trained your name with a dog.
[01:20:59.920 --> 01:21:00.320] They are.
[01:21:01.040 --> 01:21:02.240] They are smarter.
[01:21:02.320 --> 01:21:12.080] I remember we were at some nature show in some park, and they're like, yeah, they were training dogs, and there was an elephant enclosure nearby.
[01:21:12.400 --> 01:21:15.760] And the elephants picked it up just by watching faster than the dogs.
[01:21:15.920 --> 01:21:17.200] They were like, they are so smart.
[01:21:17.200 --> 01:21:17.840] It's ridiculous.
[01:21:18.240 --> 01:21:20.480] Some elephants have passed the mirror test.
[01:21:20.720 --> 01:21:21.040] Yeah.
[01:21:21.120 --> 01:21:21.440] Nice.
[01:21:21.440 --> 01:21:21.920] Big ones.
[01:21:22.320 --> 01:21:22.720] Oh, that's good.
[01:21:22.880 --> 01:21:24.000] You know, I have my views.
[01:21:24.000 --> 01:21:32.640] I've done a lot of animal research, and I have my line in the sand of which species I think we shouldn't be doing animal research on.
[01:21:32.640 --> 01:21:39.920] And I think that that often would also apply to which species we should not be domesticating and keeping as tiny little prisoners in our homes.
[01:21:39.920 --> 01:21:40.320] Yeah.
[01:21:40.640 --> 01:21:41.760] I don't disagree with that.
[01:21:42.800 --> 01:21:43.920] What makes it worse, Kara?
[01:21:43.920 --> 01:21:50.080] I'll finish with this: is that some people were talking about, well, maybe we could have it like in the zoo or something.
[01:21:50.080 --> 01:21:53.280] You know, like if we do bring them back, we'll make them zoo attractions.
[01:21:53.440 --> 01:21:54.960] In a way, I think that's even a little more.
[01:21:55.520 --> 01:21:55.760] It is.
[01:21:55.760 --> 01:21:56.480] It's terrible.
[01:21:56.480 --> 01:21:59.520] And there's a lot of ethical considerations around elephants in a zoo.
[01:21:59.520 --> 01:22:00.240] Yeah, absolutely.
[01:22:00.240 --> 01:22:00.560] Yeah.
[01:22:00.560 --> 01:22:00.960] Absolutely.
[01:22:01.120 --> 01:22:02.160] They're social creatures.
[01:22:02.160 --> 01:22:04.560] They need very large roaming areas.
[01:22:04.560 --> 01:22:07.120] Most zoos for elephants are substandard.
[01:22:07.120 --> 01:22:07.600] Yeah.
[01:22:08.160 --> 01:22:14.160] There are some, you know, really good ones with good enclosures, but yeah, I feel bad for them.
[01:22:14.160 --> 01:22:16.080] They're brilliant creatures.
[01:22:16.080 --> 01:22:20.960] For the record, though, dogs domesticated themselves as much as we domesticated them.
[01:22:20.960 --> 01:22:23.200] And we have a very symbiotic relationship.
[01:22:23.200 --> 01:22:25.760] The dogs are quite happy, thank you.
[01:22:26.080 --> 01:22:26.560] I agree.
[01:22:26.560 --> 01:22:28.720] But that happened over tens of thousands of years.
[01:22:29.280 --> 01:22:29.360] Yeah.
[01:22:29.520 --> 01:22:30.280] 40,000.
[01:22:31.080 --> 01:22:33.560] Inducing domestication is very different.
[01:22:34.040 --> 01:22:38.920] Although, I do think that some of the modern breeds of dogs is cruel.
[01:22:38.920 --> 01:22:42.040] It is a breed of dogs that can't breathe.
[01:22:42.040 --> 01:22:42.760] I mean, come on.
[01:22:43.400 --> 01:22:46.360] Yeah, that requires human intervention just to give birth.
[01:22:46.920 --> 01:22:47.560] Yeah.
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[01:24:04.600 --> 01:24:06.840] Beautiful anonymous changes each week.
[01:24:06.840 --> 01:24:09.560] It defies genres and expectations.
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[01:24:14.680 --> 01:24:18.640] But just the week before that, we just talked the whole time about Star Trek.
[01:24:18.800 --> 01:24:26.560] We've had other recent episodes about sexting in languages that are not your first language or what it's like to get weight loss surgery.
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[01:24:27.760 --> 01:24:28.480] It's real.
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[01:24:30.240 --> 01:24:33.920] Get Beautiful Anonymous wherever you listen to podcasts.
[01:24:34.240 --> 01:24:36.560] All right, Jay, it's who's that noisy time?
[01:24:36.560 --> 01:24:37.200] All right, guys.
[01:24:37.200 --> 01:24:39.200] Last week I played This Noisy.
[01:24:46.400 --> 01:24:48.000] Do you guys have any guesses?
[01:24:48.000 --> 01:24:51.440] It was like a particularly brutal shaving session.
[01:24:53.200 --> 01:24:54.080] What's going on there?
[01:24:54.080 --> 01:24:54.560] It's rough.
[01:24:57.120 --> 01:24:59.920] Well, a listener named Kathy Collins says, Hi, everyone.
[01:24:59.920 --> 01:25:02.480] I think this sounds like a milkshake machine.
[01:25:02.480 --> 01:25:04.160] And you know, it's funny.
[01:25:04.880 --> 01:25:12.400] I've seen like those machines where you like stick the cup up into like the arm that spins around, you know, to mix it.
[01:25:12.400 --> 01:25:14.080] And, you know, yeah, maybe a little bit.
[01:25:14.080 --> 01:25:15.760] I can kind of hear that.
[01:25:15.760 --> 01:25:17.840] Another listener named William Steele.
[01:25:17.840 --> 01:25:18.720] That's a cool name.
[01:25:18.720 --> 01:25:20.080] William Steele.
[01:25:20.960 --> 01:25:22.720] He writes, Hi, Jay.
[01:25:22.720 --> 01:25:28.400] This week's Noisy really sounds like someone blowing into their hands to do some sort of bird call.
[01:25:28.400 --> 01:25:30.480] Thank you all for another great episode.
[01:25:30.880 --> 01:25:32.640] That is not correct.
[01:25:32.640 --> 01:25:40.560] Although when I was in high school, I used to be able to make fart noises with my hands, and I drove one of my teachers crazy.
[01:25:40.560 --> 01:25:48.600] Hey, Jay, I have to tell you, when I was in college, I went to Disney World, and the bus driver that drove us from the airport to the resort.
[01:25:48.600 --> 01:25:51.120] He was named Rockland Steele.
[01:25:51.120 --> 01:25:52.320] Rockland Steele.
[01:25:52.320 --> 01:25:53.520] And I can't, I can't.
[01:25:53.920 --> 01:25:55.920] It stuck with me my whole life.
[01:25:55.920 --> 01:25:57.680] Rockland Steele, my bus driver.
[01:25:59.800 --> 01:26:11.880] A listener named Samuel Brett wrote in and said, Hey, Jay, my guest for this week's Noisy is a leaking main airlock seal to a CM88B Bison M-Class towing vehicle.
[01:26:11.880 --> 01:26:13.400] Wow, that's very specific.
[01:26:13.400 --> 01:26:13.800] Yeah.
[01:26:13.800 --> 01:26:16.280] You know, I have never seen one of these.
[01:26:16.280 --> 01:26:17.640] I've never driven one of these.
[01:26:17.640 --> 01:26:23.000] I don't know what this is exactly, but it is an M-class towing vehicle.
[01:26:23.000 --> 01:26:24.280] But no, I don't know.
[01:26:24.520 --> 01:26:26.440] You know, you may have heard that.
[01:26:26.440 --> 01:26:31.560] I have never heard the main airlock seal break, but if you say so, I'm with you, man.
[01:26:32.040 --> 01:26:36.600] Another listener named Hunter Richards said, Hunter Richards, another cool name.
[01:26:36.600 --> 01:26:37.560] Another one.
[01:26:37.560 --> 01:26:38.120] Hi, Jay.
[01:26:38.120 --> 01:26:43.720] This week's Noisy sounds a lot like a small motor or compressor, a handheld one that's being shaken.
[01:26:43.720 --> 01:26:47.480] Perhaps a small tire, ball pump, RC motor, or Dremel.
[01:26:47.480 --> 01:26:54.200] Now, typically, I don't let people shotgun me with like, it's a small truck, it's a ball pump.
[01:26:54.200 --> 01:26:55.000] It's an RC motor.
[01:26:55.000 --> 01:26:55.800] It's a Dremel.
[01:26:56.040 --> 01:26:59.320] I don't let people do multiple answers like that.
[01:26:59.320 --> 01:27:01.480] But I thought this one was interesting.
[01:27:02.840 --> 01:27:10.120] I was thinking the common denominator here is that the air compressor is driving it.
[01:27:10.680 --> 01:27:12.280] So I don't think that's a bad guess.
[01:27:12.280 --> 01:27:16.280] I put that one as like, you know, my favorite guess of the week.
[01:27:16.280 --> 01:27:19.000] But unfortunately, there was no winner.
[01:27:19.640 --> 01:27:22.360] So I'm going to pick one of you guys at random.
[01:27:22.360 --> 01:27:26.520] Kara, what do you think this is?
[01:27:27.480 --> 01:27:29.240] Why would I pick you?
[01:27:29.240 --> 01:27:31.000] Ooh, why would you pick me?
[01:27:31.000 --> 01:27:32.840] What do I know that you guys don't know?
[01:27:32.840 --> 01:27:34.440] Is it something in LA?
[01:27:34.760 --> 01:27:39.160] Is it something only women have access to?
[01:27:39.960 --> 01:27:41.400] Secret lairs.
[01:27:41.400 --> 01:27:42.440] Oh, my God.
[01:27:42.760 --> 01:27:43.320] I don't know.
[01:27:43.320 --> 01:27:44.120] I have no idea.
[01:27:44.120 --> 01:27:46.880] I mean, it does sound like a, like a, what do you call it?
[01:27:46.880 --> 01:27:48.880] Like a hedge trimmer?
[01:27:49.200 --> 01:27:50.960] It is a beluga whale.
[01:27:50.960 --> 01:27:52.560] Well, no, it's not.
[01:27:52.560 --> 01:27:55.680] Yep, from the Mystic Aquarium in Connecticut.
[01:27:55.680 --> 01:27:56.240] Yeah.
[01:27:56.480 --> 01:27:57.120] Listen again.
[01:27:57.120 --> 01:28:04.960] So what he's doing is he's blowing air and shaking that big ball that's on, it's in the front of their head that's like that has air in it.
[01:28:05.440 --> 01:28:07.600] And it's making like this sound.
[01:28:07.600 --> 01:28:08.800] So listen again.
[01:28:16.240 --> 01:28:17.360] Yep, now I hear it.
[01:28:17.360 --> 01:28:18.400] Sea creature.
[01:28:19.120 --> 01:28:20.160] At least it's not trying to talk.
[01:28:20.240 --> 01:28:20.800] Didn't catch it.
[01:28:20.800 --> 01:28:21.120] I don't know.
[01:28:21.680 --> 01:28:22.880] I'm disappointed in you, Kara.
[01:28:23.440 --> 01:28:26.080] It's the talking aquatic mammals that really get you.
[01:28:26.240 --> 01:28:28.480] You're like, it's an aquatic animal.
[01:28:28.480 --> 01:28:30.400] No, Kara, that is an airplane.
[01:28:30.400 --> 01:28:31.360] You know what I mean?
[01:28:32.320 --> 01:28:35.040] So I figured you would lead with that, but you didn't.
[01:28:35.280 --> 01:28:37.200] Anyway, it's okay.
[01:28:37.520 --> 01:28:38.240] All right, guys.
[01:28:38.240 --> 01:28:39.120] So that was fun.
[01:28:39.120 --> 01:28:40.880] That was a cool noisy there.
[01:28:40.880 --> 01:28:42.720] I mean, I've said it so many times.
[01:28:42.720 --> 01:28:44.560] It's remarkable how things sound like other things.
[01:28:45.840 --> 01:28:47.200] Context is everything.
[01:28:47.200 --> 01:28:48.320] Thanks, Bob.
[01:28:48.320 --> 01:28:54.800] Anyway, I got an interesting noisy here from a listener named Rabbi Adam Bellows.
[01:28:55.120 --> 01:28:56.320] And here is the noisy.
[01:28:56.800 --> 01:28:58.160] Adam's a longtime listener.
[01:28:58.160 --> 01:28:58.960] That's correct.
[01:28:58.960 --> 01:29:01.440] And here is the noisy.
[01:29:09.520 --> 01:29:11.600] That's someone stapling a cat.
[01:29:12.560 --> 01:29:13.920] I'll give you one hint.
[01:29:17.040 --> 01:29:18.240] Let's hear that again, Evan.
[01:29:18.320 --> 01:29:18.640] Oh, my God.
[01:29:18.880 --> 01:29:20.720] Someone's stapling a cat.
[01:29:22.320 --> 01:29:23.120] See?
[01:29:23.440 --> 01:29:24.160] Oh, my God.
[01:29:24.400 --> 01:29:24.880] Wow.
[01:29:24.880 --> 01:29:25.200] All right.
[01:29:25.200 --> 01:29:28.640] So if you listen to this noisy, you might hear like a rhythm in there.
[01:29:28.640 --> 01:29:30.200] The rhythm is irrelevant.
[01:29:30.200 --> 01:29:31.480] Okay, that's my clue.
[01:29:31.480 --> 01:29:33.400] Just I didn't want anyone to get hung up on the rhythm.
[01:29:29.680 --> 01:29:34.440] It doesn't mean anything.
[01:29:35.320 --> 01:29:43.800] If you guys heard something cool this week or you think you know the answer to this week's noisy, you can email me at wtn at the skepticsguy.org.
[01:29:43.800 --> 01:29:47.480] Steve, I have shut down ticket sales for our 1,000th episode.
[01:29:47.480 --> 01:29:48.040] That's it.
[01:29:48.040 --> 01:29:49.000] Oh, we are.
[01:29:49.560 --> 01:29:51.880] I actually sold more tickets than I wanted to.
[01:29:52.840 --> 01:29:53.960] A little standing room only.
[01:29:55.240 --> 01:29:56.760] No, there won't be standing room only.
[01:29:57.080 --> 01:30:01.480] I just wanted it to be a little bit more cozy in the room, but you know, people want to see us.
[01:30:01.480 --> 01:30:02.920] You know, it's our 1,000th episode.
[01:30:02.920 --> 01:30:04.360] There'll never be another one of these.
[01:30:05.000 --> 01:30:05.880] So that's that.
[01:30:05.880 --> 01:30:11.240] There are still tickets available for the daytime extravaganza.
[01:30:11.240 --> 01:30:14.440] I think that show starts at 2:30 on August 17th.
[01:30:14.440 --> 01:30:16.520] There's still tickets available for that.
[01:30:16.520 --> 01:30:23.880] That's going to be an interesting show, that one in particular, because we're going to be trying out some new bits only in that 2 p.m., that 2:30 show.
[01:30:24.520 --> 01:30:29.000] If you're interested, just go to the skepticsguide.org homepage for the link.
[01:30:29.000 --> 01:30:31.720] We have a new announcement, Steve.
[01:30:33.160 --> 01:30:34.920] Before I do that, let me take things in order.
[01:30:34.920 --> 01:30:38.760] So we go to Chicago and we have three shows that we're doing in Chicago.
[01:30:38.760 --> 01:30:43.960] We're doing two extravaganzas and we're doing one 1,000th show.
[01:30:43.960 --> 01:30:49.240] Then after that, we are going to Las Vegas to go to Saikon, which is the last weekend in August.
[01:30:49.240 --> 01:30:50.120] I mean, October.
[01:30:50.120 --> 01:30:54.680] That's Bob's sacred weekend where he worships the moon.
[01:30:54.920 --> 01:30:55.560] Sacred.
[01:30:55.560 --> 01:30:58.520] And Bob is giving that up to skepticism yet again.
[01:30:58.520 --> 01:30:59.400] Oh, damn it.
[01:30:59.720 --> 01:31:04.120] And then after that, we will be doing yet another show.
[01:31:04.120 --> 01:31:10.040] This time we're going to be in Washington, D.C., and this will be on the only show I have scheduled right now.
[01:31:10.040 --> 01:31:15.920] There'll be another one because we're going to be doing a SGU private show, which will probably happen on December 6th.
[01:31:14.440 --> 01:31:20.480] But for sure, on December 7th, we will be doing an extravaganza.
[01:31:14.920 --> 01:31:21.760] This is in Washington, D.C.
[01:31:22.160 --> 01:31:29.440] If you're interested for those tickets, you can go to the skepticsguy.org and check out the button on our homepage for more info on that and how to buy tickets.
[01:31:29.440 --> 01:31:36.640] And I will announce probably within the next three weeks when and where the private show will be because I've got to focus on the Chicago show.
[01:31:36.960 --> 01:31:46.000] And just to keep everyone up to date, it is very, very likely that I will be planning the next Naticon in May of next year.
[01:31:46.000 --> 01:31:46.640] Yay.
[01:31:46.640 --> 01:31:48.800] So the event will take place in May.
[01:31:48.800 --> 01:31:50.240] Yes, I'm thinking May.
[01:31:50.240 --> 01:31:54.160] But, you know, everything depends on what hotel availability and all those details.
[01:31:54.480 --> 01:31:55.120] Sure.
[01:31:55.120 --> 01:31:57.520] And I have another thing to say to everybody.
[01:31:57.520 --> 01:31:58.320] Oh, geez.
[01:31:58.480 --> 01:32:09.440] If you are an SGU patron at the $5 level or higher, you will be able to see the 1000th SGU show as a live stream, day of real time.
[01:32:09.440 --> 01:32:16.880] So if you want to see that, if you want to see that live five-hour show, all you got to do, if you're a patron, you got it.
[01:32:16.880 --> 01:32:21.600] If you're not a patron, you got to become a $5 patron or higher to see that.
[01:32:21.840 --> 01:32:27.360] Details will be emailed by me and Ian soon about how that's going to work.
[01:32:27.600 --> 01:32:34.000] Right now, we're thinking that we will be doing it through the Patreon app itself, through their website and the app.
[01:32:34.000 --> 01:32:35.280] But we'll let you know.
[01:32:35.280 --> 01:32:38.320] Guys, do you have anything you want to say about the 1000th show?
[01:32:38.320 --> 01:32:39.040] It's coming on.
[01:32:39.040 --> 01:32:40.320] It's fast.
[01:32:40.320 --> 01:32:40.880] Yes, it is.
[01:32:41.120 --> 01:32:41.760] Two weeks, guys.
[01:32:42.080 --> 01:32:46.400] Today's the first as we record this, and it's on the 18th, so we have 17 days.
[01:32:46.400 --> 01:32:47.120] Wow.
[01:32:47.120 --> 01:32:48.240] Our Kilo show.
[01:32:48.240 --> 01:32:48.800] I love it.
[01:32:48.800 --> 01:32:49.760] It always happens like this.
[01:32:50.560 --> 01:32:52.240] It's like, I'm like, oh, I got three months.
[01:32:52.240 --> 01:32:52.880] I got two months.
[01:32:52.880 --> 01:32:55.520] And then all of a sudden, it's like, it's happening.
[01:32:57.040 --> 01:32:57.760] It's fun.
[01:32:57.760 --> 01:32:58.480] We love doing it.
[01:32:58.480 --> 01:32:59.360] And we're really excited.
[01:32:59.360 --> 01:33:01.000] I mean, this is a huge milestone.
[01:33:01.240 --> 01:33:05.560] I got to tell you guys, I've been preparing for this 1,000th show.
[01:33:05.560 --> 01:33:08.520] It's extraordinary how much work it's taking to prepare for this.
[01:33:08.760 --> 01:33:18.200] I had all the patrons and regular listeners go back and go through episodes for us to find us cool moments in previous shows.
[01:33:18.200 --> 01:33:19.720] And I have a spreadsheet for that, right?
[01:33:19.720 --> 01:33:25.160] So I'm going through, and me and Ian and Kelly are going through, and we're trying to find the best stuff.
[01:33:25.160 --> 01:33:30.280] And oh my God, there are so many things that we've talked about and things that we did and moments that we've had.
[01:33:30.280 --> 01:33:41.880] But the thing that reoccurs to me is just how much fun we've had and how much time we spent laughing throughout all these tragedies, you know, the pandemic and crazy political things happening.
[01:33:41.880 --> 01:33:45.000] But we, you know, we always try to maintain our positive attitude.
[01:33:45.000 --> 01:33:47.480] You know, we always can make you laugh, Kara.
[01:33:47.800 --> 01:33:48.760] That's true.
[01:33:48.760 --> 01:33:53.880] Especially Evan's like really, really like, you know, joke bobs that he throws in the background.
[01:33:53.880 --> 01:33:58.120] It would definitely be interesting to see what percentage of the feed is just laughter.
[01:33:58.120 --> 01:34:00.600] And how much does Steve cut out?
[01:34:00.600 --> 01:34:02.120] Because he's like, that's too much.
[01:34:02.120 --> 01:34:03.240] Oh, he cuts out a lot.
[01:34:03.560 --> 01:34:04.360] Gosh.
[01:34:04.680 --> 01:34:10.280] Yeah, because we go off on when we sit here and record this show, we go off on tangents like right now.
[01:34:10.600 --> 01:34:11.960] You know what I mean?
[01:34:12.920 --> 01:34:17.240] Anyway, guys, so I'm really looking forward to this 1,000th show.
[01:34:17.240 --> 01:34:18.600] I think it's going to be really awesome.
[01:34:18.600 --> 01:34:21.560] I just want to make sure everyone knows we will be bringing swag there.
[01:34:21.560 --> 01:34:23.240] We will be signing books.
[01:34:23.800 --> 01:34:28.600] We're going to have a lot of time together because it is a five-hour show, but it's going to go by super fast.
[01:34:28.600 --> 01:34:30.200] We've done these shows before.
[01:34:30.200 --> 01:34:33.000] We know, you know, we have a ton of content.
[01:34:33.000 --> 01:34:39.400] So we're going to make sure that we set time aside to take pictures with everybody and to sign books and sign swag or whatever you want us to do.
[01:34:39.400 --> 01:34:42.280] We want to be there for you, but we do have a ton of stuff to get to.
[01:34:42.280 --> 01:34:45.760] So we're going to start that show and we're going to, you know, hit the ground running.
[01:34:46.080 --> 01:34:57.440] I'm thinking if it's possible, maybe we could meet before the show, before the show begins, to sell swag and assign stuff to get some of that work out of the way for everybody.
[01:34:57.760 --> 01:34:59.520] So I'll keep you updated on that.
[01:34:59.520 --> 01:35:04.960] Either way, you should come to the hotel early, have lunch, you know, get yourself ready for that five-hour show.
[01:35:04.960 --> 01:35:05.360] All right.
[01:35:05.360 --> 01:35:06.080] Thank you, Jay.
[01:35:06.080 --> 01:35:08.640] We're going to do one quick email.
[01:35:08.640 --> 01:35:13.120] This comes from Dave, and Dave writes, I'm a longtime listener and fan of the SGU.
[01:35:13.120 --> 01:35:17.920] I came across this video about electric motor that propels the flagella of bacteria.
[01:35:17.920 --> 01:35:22.400] The structure of this rotating motor made of proteins was amazing to me.
[01:35:22.400 --> 01:35:23.440] Then he gives a link.
[01:35:23.440 --> 01:35:31.200] The video provides a detailed explanation, but unfortunately concludes by hinting at the idea of intelligent design and irreducible complexity.
[01:35:31.200 --> 01:35:37.120] Could you provide a better explanation of the evolution of such a structure rather than just saying it's God's work?
[01:35:37.120 --> 01:35:38.080] Cheers, Dave.
[01:35:38.080 --> 01:35:44.880] So actually, we talked about this on the live stream, but because we got an email, I thought we could also talk about it a little bit here.
[01:35:45.360 --> 01:35:54.960] The video is to a science communicator, Dustin, who does the Smarter Everyday videos.
[01:35:54.960 --> 01:35:56.000] And they're very good.
[01:35:56.000 --> 01:35:57.360] I think we've talked about them before.
[01:35:57.360 --> 01:35:57.680] Oh, yeah.
[01:35:57.680 --> 01:35:58.800] Dustin's usually amazing.
[01:35:58.800 --> 01:36:01.120] He talks about intelligent design in this video.
[01:36:01.120 --> 01:36:01.600] A bit.
[01:36:01.600 --> 01:36:02.320] He does.
[01:36:02.320 --> 01:36:07.840] And that's why it's garnered so much attention because it's a little bit out of step with his usual high-quality science communication.
[01:36:07.840 --> 01:36:18.880] And again, the bulk of the video is talking to scientists who have published some recent detailed models of how the bacterial flagella works, basically higher resolution.
[01:36:18.880 --> 01:36:20.560] And it's very cool.
[01:36:21.040 --> 01:36:36.040] But he does get into a little bit of irreducible complexity talk, you know, and he doesn't provide, he tries to come off as sounding neutral, but he kind of omits the standard scientific explanation.
[01:36:36.360 --> 01:36:39.000] He gives it very short shrift, you know.
[01:36:39.640 --> 01:36:45.640] He doesn't mention, for example, the whole concept of co-aptation, right?
[01:36:45.640 --> 01:36:54.600] That the fact is that, you know, he talked about, well, how could something as complicated as the flagella evolve?
[01:36:54.600 --> 01:36:57.960] Does that mean that every piece of it had an evolutionary advantage?
[01:36:57.960 --> 01:36:59.720] It's like, nobody thinks that.
[01:36:59.720 --> 01:37:07.640] But, you know, the thinking is that it evolved from other things that did things other than work as a flagella, right?
[01:37:07.640 --> 01:37:15.960] Just like bird wings evolved from proto-wings that were not for flying until they got good enough that they could be used for flying, you know?
[01:37:16.360 --> 01:37:18.040] And then they were tweaked for flying.
[01:37:18.040 --> 01:37:28.440] But before that, they could have been used for a lot of other things, thermoregulation and matings, display, guiding leaps, trapping prey, whatever.
[01:37:28.440 --> 01:37:47.560] Similarly, and he did very quickly mention the secretin molecule, but again, gave it very short shrift in that there's a lot of homology between the flagella and this essentially a structure that's used to inject toxin into prey, right?
[01:37:47.560 --> 01:37:51.080] So it doesn't move, but a lot of the pieces are there.
[01:37:51.720 --> 01:38:03.080] And, you know, of course, they're separated by many, many years of evolution, so it's not like a literal stepping stone, but it's like, look, there are closely related proteins that do other things.
[01:38:03.080 --> 01:38:10.600] So, probably there was some pathway through these other functionality before it was a flagella.
[01:38:10.600 --> 01:38:15.000] And it probably was a really crappy flagella, you know, before it was a good flagella.
[01:38:15.840 --> 01:38:24.400] So, the other way to look at this is like the human eye, which is another one that is often proposed as irreducibly complex.
[01:38:24.400 --> 01:38:37.760] Again, the idea of irreducible complexity is a structure that's so complicated it could not have evolved because there's no pathway, there's no evolutionary pathway to that complex structure because you need all the pieces in place before it functions at all.
[01:38:37.760 --> 01:38:42.400] It's like, well, but it could have functioned simpler for something else.
[01:38:42.720 --> 01:38:43.280] Totally.
[01:38:43.280 --> 01:38:49.040] Or, like with the eye example, it could have just been a simpler version of that thing.
[01:38:49.040 --> 01:38:56.480] So, they say, look at the eye, you have a lens and you have an iris and a pupil and a retina, and they're all structured a certain way.
[01:38:56.480 --> 01:38:57.680] It's like, that's right.
[01:38:57.680 --> 01:39:01.120] Or you could have a pinhole, and that's it.
[01:39:01.120 --> 01:39:02.320] And it works.
[01:39:02.320 --> 01:39:08.240] It doesn't work as well as a modern eye does, but you could have just a patch of light-sensitive tissue.
[01:39:08.240 --> 01:39:09.680] That works too.
[01:39:09.680 --> 01:39:13.600] Yeah, you could have just like a floppy little appendage that doesn't have a motor at all at the beginning.
[01:39:15.280 --> 01:39:18.000] Yeah, or whatever, or just very crudely moves, you know.
[01:39:18.000 --> 01:39:18.640] Totally, yeah.
[01:39:18.880 --> 01:39:19.440] Absolutely.
[01:39:19.440 --> 01:39:24.240] And then it gets fine-tuned over time to work better and better until you finally have some.
[01:39:24.240 --> 01:39:30.720] And then, of course, you know, a lot of the intermediary steps are lost to evolutionary history because species go extinct.
[01:39:30.720 --> 01:39:33.840] And then you think, imagine, like, this is an example I often get.
[01:39:35.280 --> 01:39:41.280] Well, the tractor one is a different one than I was going to get, but it's like, I use that for the eye thing.
[01:39:41.280 --> 01:39:49.680] It's like saying, and I literally had a creationist say to me, were people walking around with half eyes on their hanging out of their face, you know, a million years ago?
[01:39:49.680 --> 01:39:54.560] It's like, were people dragging around half a Dear John tractor in the Middle Ages?
[01:39:54.560 --> 01:39:58.080] No, they were using a plow, which works, but it's a lot simpler.
[01:39:58.080 --> 01:40:06.280] So imagine if the only bird that survived, like all birds go extinct except for the hummingbird.
[01:40:06.920 --> 01:40:07.240] Right?
[01:40:07.240 --> 01:40:10.360] And then you look at a hummingbird and how it flies and how it finds.
[01:40:10.760 --> 01:40:12.600] How could it possibly have evolved?
[01:40:12.600 --> 01:40:17.560] You know, think of all the specialization you would need before a hummingbird could fly the way that it does.
[01:40:17.560 --> 01:40:28.280] Because you're missing all the intermediary bird stages, you know what I mean, that were more obvious, not quite as tricked out as the hummingbird.
[01:40:28.280 --> 01:40:28.920] Right?
[01:40:28.920 --> 01:40:29.800] So it's the same thing.
[01:40:30.120 --> 01:40:37.960] If all you're looking at is the bacterial flagella and you are missing 500 million years of intermediary stages or whatever.
[01:40:38.280 --> 01:40:40.760] Which, by the way, none of that stuff fossilizes.
[01:40:40.760 --> 01:40:41.240] Right, right.
[01:40:41.560 --> 01:40:45.240] Like we wouldn't know any stage before what we have right now of a bacterium.
[01:40:45.240 --> 01:40:45.480] Right.
[01:40:45.480 --> 01:40:48.760] It's also, yeah, it's also you're focusing on something that does not fossilize well.
[01:40:48.760 --> 01:40:51.400] So of course we're missing all the details.
[01:40:51.400 --> 01:40:57.560] And you can't say, well, until and unless we can reverse engineer every step along the way, it's impossible.
[01:40:57.560 --> 01:40:58.680] That's ridiculous.
[01:40:58.680 --> 01:40:59.480] Of course it isn't.
[01:40:59.480 --> 01:41:07.880] It's just, it's apt, there are many plausible pathways, and there's some evidence for some of those stepping stones, right?
[01:41:07.880 --> 01:41:09.080] Not all of them.
[01:41:09.080 --> 01:41:16.120] And so the whole irreducible complexity thing just completely fails from a logical and evidentiary point of view.
[01:41:16.120 --> 01:41:16.920] But it was very.
[01:41:17.000 --> 01:41:19.560] But Destin didn't say it was, anything else was impossible.
[01:41:20.200 --> 01:41:24.040] He didn't go full irreducible complexity.
[01:41:24.280 --> 01:41:28.840] What he did was he kind of gave a biased summary of the situation.
[01:41:29.480 --> 01:41:31.320] Which makes sense because Destin is a devout Christian.
[01:41:31.560 --> 01:41:31.800] Absolutely.
[01:41:31.800 --> 01:41:32.840] He's very open about that.
[01:41:32.840 --> 01:41:33.160] Absolutely.
[01:41:33.640 --> 01:41:45.840] And he does a lot of talks about science and his faith and how he sort of finds, you know, how he exists in a world where he's a faithful person who's also, he desperately wants it all to be compatible.
[01:41:45.840 --> 01:41:50.400] And he stepped right up to the edge and basically laid it up without like a lawyer.
[01:41:50.640 --> 01:41:53.600] Like you just sort of lay it up and let the people make their own conclusions kind of thing.
[01:41:53.840 --> 01:41:55.840] And he has plausible deniability.
[01:41:56.400 --> 01:42:06.240] But he definitely gave way more attention to the irreducible complexity side and come very short treatment of the answer to that.
[01:42:06.400 --> 01:42:06.960] That's a bummer.
[01:42:07.200 --> 01:42:08.880] Yeah, it was just a little disappointing.
[01:42:09.440 --> 01:42:15.840] But the 95% of the video was just good science communication about how cool the bacterial flagella is.
[01:42:16.560 --> 01:42:20.400] Anyway, yeah, we talked about that on our Wednesday live stream as well.
[01:42:20.400 --> 01:42:21.040] Interesting.
[01:42:21.040 --> 01:42:22.720] Steve, I got my quick clarification.
[01:42:22.720 --> 01:42:22.960] Yeah.
[01:42:22.960 --> 01:42:25.120] Yes, Bob, you have a quick clarification from last week?
[01:42:25.120 --> 01:42:29.120] Yeah, a clarification about my atomic clock talk recently and metaphor I used.
[01:42:29.280 --> 01:42:37.280] It's in my talk, I compared the up and down transitions of the electrons moving between energy levels to the ticking, the ticks of a clock.
[01:42:37.520 --> 01:42:39.360] And that, it turns out, was incorrect.
[01:42:39.360 --> 01:42:46.320] This is actually a common misconception that was frustratingly common in my research for that topic and in the past as well.
[01:42:46.560 --> 01:42:47.760] I often come across that.
[01:42:47.760 --> 01:42:54.240] The metaphor of a ticking clock in this context should have been related to the frequency of light itself instead.
[01:42:54.240 --> 01:42:58.240] The electron absorbs this light and it moves to the next energetic state.
[01:42:58.240 --> 01:43:01.040] It will then quickly release that energy and move back down.
[01:43:01.040 --> 01:43:09.120] And that radiation absorbed and emitted needs to be 9.192631770 billion hertz.
[01:43:09.120 --> 01:43:13.280] Those are your atomic ticks of the clock and not the electron transitions.
[01:43:13.520 --> 01:43:14.400] Thank you, Dr.
[01:43:14.400 --> 01:43:18.640] Science, also known as my friend Leonard Tramiel, my favorite pedant.
[01:43:18.960 --> 01:43:20.960] I knew something was wrong with that item, Bob.
[01:43:21.040 --> 01:43:21.200] Thank you.
[01:43:21.440 --> 01:43:21.680] Totally.
[01:43:21.760 --> 01:43:23.120] Yeah, I totally picked up on that.
[01:43:23.200 --> 01:43:24.880] Well, that's like two nights of sleep.
[01:43:24.880 --> 01:43:25.360] Yeah.
[01:43:25.680 --> 01:43:26.720] Well, sorry about that.
[01:43:26.720 --> 01:43:27.600] You fail, Bob.
[01:43:27.600 --> 01:43:28.480] All right.
[01:43:29.120 --> 01:43:31.720] Let's move on with science or fiction.
[01:43:34.280 --> 01:43:39.400] It's time for science or fiction.
[01:43:43.560 --> 01:43:56.120] Each week, I come up with three science news items or facts, two real and one fake, and I challenge my panel of expert and very erudite skeptics to tell me which one they think is the fake.
[01:43:56.120 --> 01:43:57.080] I love that word.
[01:43:57.080 --> 01:43:57.720] All right.
[01:43:57.720 --> 01:43:59.080] It was a theme this week.
[01:43:59.080 --> 01:44:00.520] You guys want to guess the theme?
[01:44:00.840 --> 01:44:01.640] Olympics.
[01:44:01.640 --> 01:44:03.320] The Olympics is the Olympics.
[01:44:03.320 --> 01:44:04.760] That is the theme.
[01:44:05.080 --> 01:44:06.200] Crap.
[01:44:09.080 --> 01:44:11.160] Here are three items about the Olympics.
[01:44:11.160 --> 01:44:12.280] You ready?
[01:44:12.600 --> 01:44:25.240] Okay, item number one: the first modern Olympic Games in 1896 involved only 14 nations with only 241 male and 64 female athletes.
[01:44:25.560 --> 01:44:36.760] Item number two, the ancient Olympic Games were banned in 393 AD by the Roman Emperor because they were considered pagan and conflicted with Christian values.
[01:44:36.760 --> 01:44:45.240] And item number three, the 1908 Olympic Games featured pistol dueling in which competitors fired wax bullets at each other.
[01:44:45.240 --> 01:44:46.360] Evan, go first.
[01:44:46.680 --> 01:44:53.640] Okay, 1896 involved only 14 nations with 241 male and 64 female athletes.
[01:44:53.640 --> 01:44:55.320] Why only 14 nations?
[01:44:55.320 --> 01:44:58.040] There were certainly a lot more than that at the time.
[01:44:58.040 --> 01:45:00.920] Why would it have been so restricted?
[01:45:01.880 --> 01:45:11.400] Maybe those are the only countries who could establish teams or enough of a representation to be able to send an athlete.
[01:45:11.400 --> 01:45:15.760] So that would have been maybe concentrated in some nations.
[01:45:15.840 --> 01:45:22.960] Maybe many nations didn't have those kinds of sports systems, sports programs within their society.
[01:45:22.960 --> 01:45:26.080] So that's why that one could likely be the science.
[01:45:26.240 --> 01:45:34.800] The second one about the Olympic Games banned in 393 AD by the Roman Emperor because they were considered pagan.
[01:45:35.440 --> 01:45:37.840] I don't know about this one.
[01:45:37.840 --> 01:45:41.120] This one, I can't quite put my finger on it.
[01:45:41.120 --> 01:45:43.440] It conflicted with Christian values.
[01:45:43.600 --> 01:45:50.560] I suppose that would line up with what was happening in that time in history, but I don't know.
[01:45:50.560 --> 01:45:59.200] That one leaves a lot of room for other reasons for it to have been banned other than it was considered pagan.
[01:45:59.360 --> 01:46:05.520] The last one about 1908 featured pistol dueling and wax bullets.
[01:46:05.520 --> 01:46:11.520] That one sounds the most ridiculous of the three, and for that reason, it's likely science.
[01:46:12.000 --> 01:46:15.520] So for no great reason, I'll go with 393 AD.
[01:46:15.680 --> 01:46:17.520] It was not because.
[01:46:17.520 --> 01:46:21.280] It was canceled, but not because of paganism, shall we say.
[01:46:21.280 --> 01:46:22.240] Okay, Kara.
[01:46:22.240 --> 01:46:32.480] Evan thinks that the ancient Olympic Games were canceled, but not because of Christians not liking paganism.
[01:46:32.480 --> 01:46:34.320] I don't know, that seems reasonable to me.
[01:46:34.320 --> 01:46:34.880] I don't know.
[01:46:34.880 --> 01:46:44.560] Like, this doesn't suit my religious views of the time, and I am some sort of dictator, and you must believe what I want you to believe.
[01:46:44.560 --> 01:46:45.760] Sure, okay.
[01:46:46.080 --> 01:46:50.880] 1908, pistol dueling, shooting wax bullets at each other.
[01:46:50.880 --> 01:46:54.000] That would probably still hurt, you would think.
[01:46:54.240 --> 01:47:01.160] Maybe they wore some sort of like protective, or maybe that's why it was only featured in 1908.
[01:47:01.800 --> 01:47:02.680] Who knows?
[01:47:02.680 --> 01:47:04.120] I didn't say only, but okay.
[01:46:59.920 --> 01:47:05.400] True.
[01:47:05.640 --> 01:47:11.400] The one that sticks out to me is the first modern games.
[01:47:11.720 --> 01:47:14.040] I can't fathom.
[01:47:14.040 --> 01:47:15.880] I hope that I'm wrong here.
[01:47:15.880 --> 01:47:17.000] I really do.
[01:47:17.000 --> 01:47:20.920] But I cannot fathom that women competed in the first Olympic Games.
[01:47:20.920 --> 01:47:31.160] In 1896, I think it took a long time for women to be able to do, quote, sport just in a public arena at all.
[01:47:31.160 --> 01:47:33.080] We had like no rights.
[01:47:33.400 --> 01:47:36.920] I mean, we're starting to get rights, but weren't looking good at that point.
[01:47:36.920 --> 01:47:40.840] So that's going to be my guess is that there were no women in those games.
[01:47:40.840 --> 01:47:43.560] And maybe some of the other numbers are off as well.
[01:47:43.880 --> 01:47:44.840] Okay, Jay.
[01:47:44.840 --> 01:47:47.640] You would think that a wax bullet just wouldn't work, right, Kara?
[01:47:47.880 --> 01:47:48.920] Like out of a gun, probably.
[01:47:48.920 --> 01:47:51.000] Yeah, like it was a special gun.
[01:47:51.000 --> 01:47:52.760] Or maybe a certain type of wax.
[01:47:52.760 --> 01:47:53.480] I don't know.
[01:47:54.040 --> 01:48:04.840] Yeah, I mean, I think I'm going to go with Kara because back in 1896, I just can't, I can't even visualize women competing in the sports, right?
[01:48:04.840 --> 01:48:07.000] What they were re-wearing and all that stuff.
[01:48:07.880 --> 01:48:10.680] I think it makes perfect sense that women were not involved with that sport.
[01:48:10.680 --> 01:48:11.960] So I'm going to go with Kara.
[01:48:11.960 --> 01:48:12.920] And Bob.
[01:48:12.920 --> 01:48:17.320] So yeah, 1908 pistol dueling with wax bullets.
[01:48:17.320 --> 01:48:22.520] That just, it seems outrageous and probably true, but I felt the same way, Jay.
[01:48:22.520 --> 01:48:33.320] I mean, what kind of wax would be strong enough to hold up to a gun and then be hard enough to survive, but then not too hard to like kill you or put your eye out?
[01:48:33.320 --> 01:48:33.720] I don't know.
[01:48:33.720 --> 01:48:37.080] It just sounds so bizarre that it's probably true.
[01:48:37.080 --> 01:48:45.200] The banning of the Olympic Games in 393 AD, that for some reason, that's tickling a memory, probably a false memory.
[01:48:44.600 --> 01:48:51.840] But the one that really struck me the most as soon as I read it was this first one here in 1896.
[01:48:52.000 --> 01:48:56.160] First off, I thought maybe I thought it was 1889, but yeah, that's close enough.
[01:48:56.160 --> 01:49:03.120] I probably misremember that because I think I actually heard it just a few days ago when they actually said that the year, but that's close enough.
[01:49:03.360 --> 01:49:05.760] Yeah, my first thought was that women?
[01:49:05.760 --> 01:49:07.040] No, I don't think so.
[01:49:07.040 --> 01:49:11.920] I just, yeah, I can't imagine that the first few had women or even more than that.
[01:49:11.920 --> 01:49:12.080] Right?
[01:49:12.080 --> 01:49:21.920] So, yeah, so that's the killer for me is that I don't think women would have been involved at all except in some trivial way than actually participating.
[01:49:21.920 --> 01:49:26.160] I don't think they were, you know, society was ready for that yet.
[01:49:26.160 --> 01:49:28.640] All right, so you all agree on the third one.
[01:49:28.640 --> 01:49:29.360] So we'll start there.
[01:49:29.520 --> 01:49:35.040] The 1908 Olympic Games featured pistol dueling, in which competitors fired wax bullets at each other.
[01:49:35.040 --> 01:49:40.320] You all think this one is science, and this one is science.
[01:49:40.320 --> 01:49:40.880] Yep.
[01:49:40.960 --> 01:49:41.680] Oh, no, sweetie.
[01:49:41.920 --> 01:49:43.600] Wax bullets.
[01:49:43.920 --> 01:49:44.320] Wax all the time.
[01:49:45.040 --> 01:49:46.080] Paraffin.
[01:49:46.080 --> 01:49:47.280] They carry, you're correct.
[01:49:47.360 --> 01:49:50.320] They wore protective equipment for the torso, face, and hands.
[01:49:50.320 --> 01:49:51.040] Oh, okay.
[01:49:51.040 --> 01:49:55.920] The competitors included teams from France, the UK, and the USA.
[01:49:56.400 --> 01:50:02.080] The gold was won in the 20-meter by the French athlete and the 30-meter.
[01:50:02.080 --> 01:50:02.960] By Greece.
[01:50:02.960 --> 01:50:04.320] So, yeah, that was it.
[01:50:04.320 --> 01:50:05.760] And it was just one year.
[01:50:05.760 --> 01:50:07.120] And then they decided this was stupid.
[01:50:07.120 --> 01:50:07.760] And they didn't do it.
[01:50:10.960 --> 01:50:12.160] They felt it was whack.
[01:50:12.400 --> 01:50:15.200] There were exhibitions, I think, before that.
[01:50:16.800 --> 01:50:21.560] In 1906, but then they just had the one official game, medal-giving competition in 1908.
[01:50:21.360 --> 01:50:21.720] All right.
[01:50:22.000 --> 01:50:30.000] Did you see that, John Oliver, about like the, I can't remember what it's called, but like the training ground, like the big competition to decide which sports can make it to the Olympics?
[01:50:30.360 --> 01:50:31.000] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:50:31.160 --> 01:50:32.120]
Prompt 6: Key Takeaways
Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.
Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...".
Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive.
IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}
Prompt 7: Segments
Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.
For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion
IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.
Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
"segments": [
{
"segment_title": "Topic Discussion",
"timestamp": "01:15:30",
"key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
"segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
}
]
}
Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.
Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:
Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)
DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names
IMPORTANT:
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.
Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
"media_mentions": [
{
"title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
"category": "Book",
"author_artist": "N/A",
"context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
"context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
"timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
}
]
}
If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}
Prompt 9: Context Setup
You are an expert data extractor tasked with analyzing a podcast transcript.
I will provide you with part 3 of 3 from a podcast transcript.
I will then ask you to extract different types of information from this content in subsequent messages. Please confirm you have received and understood the transcript content.
Transcript section:
vial way than actually participating.
[01:49:21.920 --> 01:49:26.160] I don't think they were, you know, society was ready for that yet.
[01:49:26.160 --> 01:49:28.640] All right, so you all agree on the third one.
[01:49:28.640 --> 01:49:29.360] So we'll start there.
[01:49:29.520 --> 01:49:35.040] The 1908 Olympic Games featured pistol dueling, in which competitors fired wax bullets at each other.
[01:49:35.040 --> 01:49:40.320] You all think this one is science, and this one is science.
[01:49:40.320 --> 01:49:40.880] Yep.
[01:49:40.960 --> 01:49:41.680] Oh, no, sweetie.
[01:49:41.920 --> 01:49:43.600] Wax bullets.
[01:49:43.920 --> 01:49:44.320] Wax all the time.
[01:49:45.040 --> 01:49:46.080] Paraffin.
[01:49:46.080 --> 01:49:47.280] They carry, you're correct.
[01:49:47.360 --> 01:49:50.320] They wore protective equipment for the torso, face, and hands.
[01:49:50.320 --> 01:49:51.040] Oh, okay.
[01:49:51.040 --> 01:49:55.920] The competitors included teams from France, the UK, and the USA.
[01:49:56.400 --> 01:50:02.080] The gold was won in the 20-meter by the French athlete and the 30-meter.
[01:50:02.080 --> 01:50:02.960] By Greece.
[01:50:02.960 --> 01:50:04.320] So, yeah, that was it.
[01:50:04.320 --> 01:50:05.760] And it was just one year.
[01:50:05.760 --> 01:50:07.120] And then they decided this was stupid.
[01:50:07.120 --> 01:50:07.760] And they didn't do it.
[01:50:10.960 --> 01:50:12.160] They felt it was whack.
[01:50:12.400 --> 01:50:15.200] There were exhibitions, I think, before that.
[01:50:16.800 --> 01:50:21.560] In 1906, but then they just had the one official game, medal-giving competition in 1908.
[01:50:21.360 --> 01:50:21.720] All right.
[01:50:22.000 --> 01:50:30.000] Did you see that, John Oliver, about like the, I can't remember what it's called, but like the training ground, like the big competition to decide which sports can make it to the Olympics?
[01:50:30.360 --> 01:50:31.000] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:50:31.160 --> 01:50:32.120] There were some weird sports.
[01:50:32.120 --> 01:50:33.080] A lot of weird sports, really.
[01:50:33.880 --> 01:50:35.080] Very odd sports.
[01:50:35.400 --> 01:50:44.280] The ancient, all right, number two, the ancient Olympic Games were banned in 393 AD by the Roman Emperor because they were considered pagan and conflicted with Christian values.
[01:50:44.280 --> 01:50:46.440] Evan, you think this one is the fiction?
[01:50:46.440 --> 01:50:48.600] Everyone else thinks this one is science.
[01:50:48.600 --> 01:50:52.680] And this one is science.
[01:50:52.680 --> 01:50:53.320] Sorry, Evan.
[01:50:53.960 --> 01:50:54.360] Interesting.
[01:50:55.000 --> 01:50:56.120] Is that the only time?
[01:50:56.120 --> 01:50:56.760] Do you want?
[01:50:56.760 --> 01:50:58.280] Well, yeah, it was just banned once.
[01:50:58.280 --> 01:50:58.760] That was it.
[01:50:58.760 --> 01:51:01.800] And then no Olympics for 1,500 years.
[01:51:03.640 --> 01:51:04.520] That was it.
[01:51:04.840 --> 01:51:06.360] Of the ancient Olympics.
[01:51:06.360 --> 01:51:07.880] That's a big banning right there.
[01:51:07.880 --> 01:51:09.480] Yeah, it was very effective.
[01:51:10.440 --> 01:51:12.520] I thought it had something to do with war or conflict.
[01:51:12.760 --> 01:51:15.080] Anyone want to take a stab at who the emperor was?
[01:51:15.080 --> 01:51:15.880] Caligula?
[01:51:15.960 --> 01:51:16.120] No.
[01:51:16.920 --> 01:51:18.120] 393.
[01:51:18.440 --> 01:51:20.680] Theodosius I.
[01:51:21.720 --> 01:51:22.520] You sound familiar?
[01:51:22.760 --> 01:51:23.400] No clue.
[01:51:24.040 --> 01:51:28.280] He was basically the guy who made Christianity the official religion of Rome.
[01:51:28.280 --> 01:51:28.840] Cool.
[01:51:29.160 --> 01:51:29.960] Theo, huh?
[01:51:29.960 --> 01:51:31.160] Theodosius I.
[01:51:31.480 --> 01:51:34.520] He thought the games were equivalent to paganism.
[01:51:34.520 --> 01:51:40.840] He wanted to ban them in order to promote Christianity, the newly minted official religion of Rome.
[01:51:40.840 --> 01:51:42.280] So, yep, that was it.
[01:51:42.280 --> 01:51:43.160] Banned.
[01:51:43.480 --> 01:51:51.080] Which means that the first Olympic Games in 1896 involved only 14 nations with only 241 male and 64 female athletes.
[01:51:51.080 --> 01:51:52.760] Is the fiction?
[01:51:52.760 --> 01:52:01.800] You guys all seem to think that it's the fiction because you think there were no females in the 1896 Olympics, and you're correct.
[01:52:01.800 --> 01:52:02.680] That's why it's the fiction.
[01:52:03.240 --> 01:52:04.360] I tried to sneak that in there.
[01:52:04.360 --> 01:52:05.800] I was hoping you wouldn't notice.
[01:52:05.960 --> 01:52:15.840] You focus on the predictable human beings now, but what year do you think was the first Olympic Games with female athletes?
[01:52:16.080 --> 01:52:17.200] Oh, good question.
[01:52:18.080 --> 01:52:18.720] Maybe like 19.
[01:52:19.680 --> 01:52:22.160] Yeah, sometime around 1920.
[01:52:22.160 --> 01:52:23.600] I don't know what the years they fall on.
[01:52:23.600 --> 01:52:24.640] I don't want to do that math.
[01:52:24.960 --> 01:52:26.240] What about the 40s?
[01:52:26.240 --> 01:52:27.360] Bob says the 40s.
[01:52:27.360 --> 01:52:28.960] Karen, Devin says the 20s.
[01:52:29.600 --> 01:52:31.440] Yeah, not long after the turn of the century.
[01:52:33.440 --> 01:52:34.880] Or the 10s, even.
[01:52:34.880 --> 01:52:36.000] 1932.
[01:52:36.000 --> 01:52:37.120] No, I think before that.
[01:52:37.120 --> 01:52:38.240] Probably the 10s or the 20s.
[01:52:38.400 --> 01:52:39.520] 10 or 20s.
[01:52:39.520 --> 01:52:42.560] It was the next games in 1900.
[01:52:42.560 --> 01:52:42.880] Oh, good.
[01:52:42.880 --> 01:52:44.800] So enough women were pissed.
[01:52:44.800 --> 01:52:47.680] Yeah, it was the second Olympic Games.
[01:52:48.480 --> 01:52:48.960] I'm surprised.
[01:52:49.120 --> 01:52:57.840] There were 22 women competing in five sports: tennis, sailing, croquet, equestrianism, and golf.
[01:52:58.880 --> 01:53:00.400] All the feminine sports.
[01:53:02.080 --> 01:53:02.880] No gymnastics.
[01:53:03.520 --> 01:53:05.680] But it was still probably like, how many women did you see?
[01:53:05.920 --> 01:53:06.720] 22.
[01:53:06.720 --> 01:53:07.600] And how many men?
[01:53:07.600 --> 01:53:09.200] A total of 997.
[01:53:09.200 --> 01:53:09.520] Yeah, yeah.
[01:53:10.000 --> 01:53:10.800] Oh, geez.
[01:53:11.120 --> 01:53:17.600] So there was still a huge asymmetry, but yeah, they did start introducing female athletes in the next, the Second Olympics in 1900.
[01:53:17.600 --> 01:53:19.360] But the other numbers were correct.
[01:53:19.360 --> 01:53:26.000] 1896, 14 nations, 241 male, but just zero female athletes made that the fiction.
[01:53:26.480 --> 01:53:31.440] And it was all of the countries that were involved were European except for the United States.
[01:53:31.440 --> 01:53:32.080] Oh, interesting.
[01:53:32.080 --> 01:53:33.760] And most of the athletes were Greek.
[01:53:33.760 --> 01:53:35.120] Was it in Greece?
[01:53:35.120 --> 01:53:36.160] Yes, it was in Athens.
[01:53:36.160 --> 01:53:36.800] Oh, okay.
[01:53:36.800 --> 01:53:45.280] Most of the gold medals went to the United States, but Greece won the most medals total because they had the most athletes there total.
[01:53:45.280 --> 01:53:48.240] The 1900 Games, guess what city they were in?
[01:53:48.240 --> 01:53:52.240] The next variant, the Second Olympics, were in Rome.
[01:53:52.240 --> 01:53:53.920] Paris, just like this year.
[01:53:54.240 --> 01:53:54.640] Oh, nice.
[01:53:55.440 --> 01:53:56.880] Was that the last time?
[01:53:56.880 --> 01:53:57.120] No.
[01:53:57.120 --> 01:53:57.840] No, it was in Paris.
[01:53:58.000 --> 01:53:58.640] It's been a while, though.
[01:53:58.640 --> 01:53:59.040] It's been a while.
[01:53:59.600 --> 01:54:01.480] It's been in Paris like 80 years, I think.
[01:54:01.480 --> 01:54:03.320] Yeah, there's a lot of weird stuff that happened.
[01:54:00.000 --> 01:54:06.760] I mean, I had a pick of a lot of things I could have included in this.
[01:54:07.320 --> 01:54:11.640] So maybe I might resurrect this theme at some point in the future.
[01:54:11.640 --> 01:54:14.200] But I had to include the pistol dueling one.
[01:54:14.200 --> 01:54:17.880] I mean, yeah, that was so crazy.
[01:54:18.280 --> 01:54:19.240] Bizarre.
[01:54:19.240 --> 01:54:25.480] I could do one just on crazy sports that were tried out at one time or another during the Olympics.
[01:54:25.480 --> 01:54:26.040] Yeah.
[01:54:26.680 --> 01:54:32.600] You know, like we're like, one time, like, maybe we shouldn't do that.
[01:54:33.240 --> 01:54:33.960] All right.
[01:54:33.960 --> 01:54:39.400] Well, Evan, even though you crashed and burned on science or fiction this week, you still get to get nice.
[01:54:39.720 --> 01:54:42.840] That's very empathetic of you, doctor.
[01:54:44.040 --> 01:54:45.080] I love your bedside, man.
[01:54:45.240 --> 01:54:48.040] I wasn't shooting for empathy, but go ahead.
[01:54:48.280 --> 01:54:49.240] Clearly.
[01:54:50.520 --> 01:54:54.760] Scientists think that just regurgitating science is going to cut it.
[01:54:54.760 --> 01:54:56.200] It's not going to cut it.
[01:54:56.200 --> 01:55:04.920] You have to realize people are bringing their backgrounds, their experiences, their personal encounters, their fears, their hopes, their dreams, all of those things.
[01:55:04.920 --> 01:55:12.680] Unless we factor those things in, we're going to fail and we'll just continue to get trampled by the misinformation space.
[01:55:12.680 --> 01:55:23.720] Jessica Steyer from an interview that they had with her, she of the unbiased science podcast, she is the host.
[01:55:23.720 --> 01:55:32.600] And she has expertise in public health, specifically chronic and infectious disease prevention.
[01:55:32.600 --> 01:55:33.240] Cool.
[01:55:33.240 --> 01:55:38.600] She will be joining us at SciCon 2024 in October.
[01:55:38.600 --> 01:55:40.840] And we'll look forward to meeting Dr.
[01:55:40.840 --> 01:55:41.800] Steyer there.
[01:55:41.800 --> 01:55:42.200] Nice.
[01:55:42.200 --> 01:55:42.600] Yep.
[01:55:42.600 --> 01:55:43.080] I like that.
[01:55:43.080 --> 01:55:48.000] I mean, that's a good description for why the skeptic community has to exist, right?
[01:55:48.000 --> 01:55:58.480] Because, you know, it's part of what we do is science communication in the context of all the crazy shit that people believe and all of critical thinking, right?
[01:55:58.480 --> 01:56:03.760] All the biases and heuristics and those hopes and fears that people bring to the table.
[01:56:03.760 --> 01:56:06.560] We take all of that into consideration, right?
[01:56:06.560 --> 01:56:09.440] That's sort of the context in which we communicate science.
[01:56:09.440 --> 01:56:16.240] And I do think it's more effective than just the ivory tower approach, which is just here are the facts, just the facts, ma'am.
[01:56:16.240 --> 01:56:18.240] We don't get involved with anything else.
[01:56:18.800 --> 01:56:20.320] Here's some science.
[01:56:20.320 --> 01:56:22.080] Take that and be a good little fellow.
[01:56:22.640 --> 01:56:24.000] Sometimes it works.
[01:56:24.000 --> 01:56:25.440] It usually doesn't, though.
[01:56:25.440 --> 01:56:26.240] You usually doesn't.
[01:56:26.720 --> 01:56:30.480] Yeah, because you're usually not adding it to an empty vessel.
[01:56:30.800 --> 01:56:33.920] You're adding it to a vessel that is full of all sorts of ideas.
[01:56:33.920 --> 01:56:34.720] Oh, yes.
[01:56:34.720 --> 01:56:35.600] That's right.
[01:56:35.600 --> 01:56:37.280] A lot of misconceptions, etc.
[01:56:37.760 --> 01:56:39.920] Sometimes deliberate misconceptions.
[01:56:40.800 --> 01:56:45.760] There's also not everybody out there is a fair broker or an honest player.
[01:56:46.000 --> 01:56:50.800] So we're dealing with a lot of deliberate nonsense.
[01:56:50.800 --> 01:56:51.280] All right.
[01:56:51.280 --> 01:56:53.360] Well, thank you all for joining me this week.
[01:56:53.360 --> 01:56:54.000] Thanks for having me.
[01:56:54.560 --> 01:56:58.640] And until next week, this is your Skeptic's Guide to the Universe.
[01:57:00.640 --> 01:57:07.280] Skeptic's Guide to the Universe is produced by SGU Productions, dedicated to promoting science and critical thinking.
[01:57:07.280 --> 01:57:11.920] For more information, visit us at the skepticsguide.org.
[01:57:11.920 --> 01:57:15.840] Send your questions to info at the skepticsguide.org.
[01:57:15.840 --> 01:57:26.560] And if you would like to support the show and all the work that we do, go to patreon.com/slash skepticsguide and consider becoming a patron and becoming part of the SGU community.
[01:57:26.560 --> 01:57:29.760] Our listeners and supporters are what make SGU possible.
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Prompt 10: Key Takeaways
Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.
Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...".
Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive.
IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}
Prompt 11: Segments
Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.
For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion
IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.
Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
"segments": [
{
"segment_title": "Topic Discussion",
"timestamp": "01:15:30",
"key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
"segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
}
]
}
Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.
Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:
Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)
DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names
IMPORTANT:
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.
Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
"media_mentions": [
{
"title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
"category": "Book",
"author_artist": "N/A",
"context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
"context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
"timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
}
]
}
If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}
Full Transcript
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[00:00:33.280 --> 00:00:36.480] You're listening to The Skeptics Guide to the Universe.
[00:00:36.480 --> 00:00:39.440] Your escape to reality.
[00:00:40.080 --> 00:00:42.720] Hello, and welcome to The Skeptics Guide to the Universe.
[00:00:42.720 --> 00:00:47.840] Today is Thursday, August 1st, 2024, and this is your host, Stephen Novella.
[00:00:47.840 --> 00:00:49.600] Joining me this week are Bob Novella.
[00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:50.160] Hey, everybody.
[00:00:50.160 --> 00:00:51.520] Kara Santa Maria.
[00:00:51.520 --> 00:00:51.920] Howdy.
[00:00:51.920 --> 00:00:52.880] Jay Novella.
[00:00:52.880 --> 00:00:53.520] Hey, guys.
[00:00:53.520 --> 00:00:54.960] And Evan Bernstein.
[00:00:54.960 --> 00:00:55.840] Hello, everyone.
[00:00:55.840 --> 00:00:57.440] So, were you guys watching the Olympics?
[00:00:57.440 --> 00:00:57.920] Oh, yeah.
[00:00:58.080 --> 00:01:01.760] I'm watching clips of the Olympics on Instagram late at night when I'm trying to sleep.
[00:01:01.920 --> 00:01:02.160] Yeah.
[00:01:02.480 --> 00:01:03.440] Gymnastics, baby.
[00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:04.400] I know.
[00:01:04.400 --> 00:01:05.280] Simone Files.
[00:01:05.280 --> 00:01:05.680] Oh, I'm going to go to the bathroom.
[00:01:05.680 --> 00:01:06.240] Simone.
[00:01:06.560 --> 00:01:07.120] Spoiler alert.
[00:01:07.440 --> 00:01:07.840] USA.
[00:01:07.840 --> 00:01:09.840] She's rocks.
[00:01:09.920 --> 00:01:10.560] Spoiler alert.
[00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:11.520] Gosh.
[00:01:11.760 --> 00:01:12.400] Yeah, there she's.
[00:01:12.400 --> 00:01:13.760] She's been at the top of her game for so long.
[00:01:13.920 --> 00:01:14.320] Oh, my God.
[00:01:14.800 --> 00:01:15.840] What an inspiration.
[00:01:15.840 --> 00:01:16.400] Incredible.
[00:01:17.360 --> 00:01:23.200] At 27, which is like basically the oldest gymnast to ever win.
[00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:25.520] I mean, the team gold, she just went all around.
[00:01:25.920 --> 00:01:32.080] And after, yeah, after going down for her mental health purposes, having the twisties, you know, like the yips.
[00:01:32.080 --> 00:01:35.680] And I mean, everything that she's gone through coming back, coming back so strong.
[00:01:35.680 --> 00:01:36.000] I don't know.
[00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:44.240] I keep seeing posts from people saying, like, you know, people talk about these talents that are like generational talents, but she may just be it.
[00:01:44.560 --> 00:01:46.160] Like, she may be the greatest.
[00:01:46.720 --> 00:01:47.760] The goaches.
[00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:48.160] Yeah.
[00:01:48.160 --> 00:01:54.160] As of right now, she's the greatest of all time, but I don't know if she's going to be surpassable anytime soon.
[00:01:54.320 --> 00:01:54.560] Right.
[00:01:54.560 --> 00:01:54.960] That's going to be a good idea.
[00:01:55.160 --> 00:01:58.800] Rebecca Andraje from Brazil did very, very well.
[00:01:58.800 --> 00:02:02.120] She was closer to Simone than anybody else.
[00:02:02.440 --> 00:02:04.200] She got a silver in the all-around.
[00:01:59.600 --> 00:02:04.920] She's fantastic.
[00:02:05.080 --> 00:02:14.040] She's the only one that even had an outside chance, but still, Simone won by like a 1.2 points at the end of the day today.
[00:02:14.040 --> 00:02:17.240] And Suni, oh my God, Suni, what a story she's got.
[00:02:17.560 --> 00:02:25.480] She's the one that had, after she won the all-around a few years ago, she woke up and had two kidney diseases and gained 40 pounds in a month.
[00:02:25.480 --> 00:02:27.000] She was not doing great.
[00:02:27.000 --> 00:02:27.800] And she came back.
[00:02:27.800 --> 00:02:31.000] She won sil, I mean, bronze all-around today.
[00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:32.600] Fantastic story.
[00:02:33.240 --> 00:02:40.520] And then didn't another member of Team USA like have three separate ACL injuries or something like that and then came back to competition?
[00:02:40.760 --> 00:02:43.000] Rebecca Andraje had from Brazil, actually.
[00:02:43.240 --> 00:02:46.360] She had three ACLs surgeries.
[00:02:46.360 --> 00:02:48.600] And that always, I've mentioned it before.
[00:02:48.840 --> 00:02:54.760] That's amazing to me because you're at such a high level, as high as it gets in gymnastics.
[00:02:54.760 --> 00:03:00.440] You have three ACL surgeries and she comes back and she's still back at that at such a high level.
[00:03:00.440 --> 00:03:06.920] You would think she would lose five or six or seven percent at least and then be kind of out of such contention.
[00:03:06.920 --> 00:03:10.840] She, you know, she could have potentially won gold today in the world around.
[00:03:10.920 --> 00:03:12.600] That's very amazing.
[00:03:12.600 --> 00:03:16.760] She was closer to Simone than anybody else, but nobody's beaten Simone.
[00:03:17.080 --> 00:03:19.160] Do you know what my favorite is watching?
[00:03:19.160 --> 00:03:28.680] Have you seen any of these side-by-side videos of like the best of the best 50 years ago versus today and how much the sport has just massively accelerated?
[00:03:29.160 --> 00:03:30.520] Technology is just as incredible.
[00:03:31.160 --> 00:03:31.640] Amazing.
[00:03:31.960 --> 00:03:36.120] Some of the training and the techniques, they were really, they were really horrible.
[00:03:36.120 --> 00:03:45.920] I mean, some countries were horrible, especially the way the American training was done in like the, I don't know, like the 80s and 90s.
[00:03:46.320 --> 00:03:49.520] It was basically, you know, they were treated horribly.
[00:03:49.520 --> 00:03:51.600] They were so ridiculously strict.
[00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:53.520] It was terrible.
[00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:55.840] And now what's that?
[00:03:55.840 --> 00:03:56.160] At that time.
[00:03:56.640 --> 00:03:58.000] It was amateurs only at that time.
[00:03:58.000 --> 00:03:58.240] Yes.
[00:03:58.480 --> 00:03:59.840] So that's also a big difference.
[00:03:59.840 --> 00:04:00.240] Interesting.
[00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:00.960] That's a huge difference.
[00:04:01.200 --> 00:04:02.080] I didn't know that.
[00:04:02.080 --> 00:04:02.720] Okay.
[00:04:02.720 --> 00:04:09.440] Because very often when I see these side-by-side videos, I think it's just a function of like, I don't know, people are just way better athletes now.
[00:04:09.760 --> 00:04:12.080] I didn't realize that there was sort of a celebrity.
[00:04:13.200 --> 00:04:18.960] If I recall, it was into sometime in the 80s they finally allowed professional athletes to participate in U.S.
[00:04:18.960 --> 00:04:19.600] Olympics.
[00:04:19.680 --> 00:04:20.320] Yeah, remember the dreams?
[00:04:20.560 --> 00:04:22.800] But prior to that, you had to be an amateur.
[00:04:23.200 --> 00:04:23.680] Yeah.
[00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:26.880] Did you guys see the sharpshooter situation?
[00:04:26.880 --> 00:04:27.440] Oh, my God.
[00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:28.400] I did see that.
[00:04:28.640 --> 00:04:36.000] That guy from Turkey who shows up with no ear goggles, no accoutrements of the sport.
[00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:41.600] He's got his hand in his pocket shooting, and he's like a divorced dad from Turkey.
[00:04:41.600 --> 00:04:42.400] He gets silver.
[00:04:42.400 --> 00:04:45.120] He just strolls in, gets his silver.
[00:04:45.280 --> 00:04:46.560] That's probably his best day.
[00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:47.040] Look at him.
[00:04:47.040 --> 00:04:49.840] He looks like your neighbor across the street just strolling in with nothing.
[00:04:49.840 --> 00:04:53.040] None of the high-tech equipment that everybody else had, just him.
[00:04:53.040 --> 00:04:53.600] Silver.
[00:04:53.600 --> 00:04:54.480] Walks away with silver.
[00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:54.720] Awesome.
[00:04:54.880 --> 00:04:55.280] I love that.
[00:04:55.280 --> 00:04:59.600] I just saw that picture and read a little blurb, but it was like, oh, my God, that's awesome.
[00:04:59.600 --> 00:05:02.640] I also love, Bob, that you called them ear goggles.
[00:05:06.480 --> 00:05:07.520] I knew what you meant.
[00:05:07.520 --> 00:05:08.080] I love that.
[00:05:08.400 --> 00:05:08.960] That's funny.
[00:05:10.960 --> 00:05:14.080] The other thing was that it was mildly irritating.
[00:05:14.080 --> 00:05:26.160] It was all the backlash over the, you know, the opening of the Olympics because apparently there was symbolism being used that a lot of religious people didn't like or apparently understand.
[00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:27.280] Pagan ritual.
[00:05:27.280 --> 00:05:28.080] They didn't like it.
[00:05:28.080 --> 00:05:32.600] Yeah, I mean, there was like the big one was like the Last Supper.
[00:05:32.920 --> 00:05:34.360] But I don't think it was the Last Supper.
[00:05:29.840 --> 00:05:35.640] It was the Bacchanalia.
[00:05:36.200 --> 00:05:49.960] What we're seeing is a bunch of people dressed up as Greek gods and stuff like that, but because there was a table and the body positions of the people, they may very well have been making fun of Christianity by doing this.
[00:05:50.440 --> 00:05:51.480] I doubt it.
[00:05:51.480 --> 00:05:51.880] I don't know.
[00:05:52.200 --> 00:05:53.480] I don't know for certain.
[00:05:53.480 --> 00:05:59.640] I'm just saying that it's possible because it's like, can Christians really own something like a symbolic dinner?
[00:05:59.640 --> 00:06:02.600] Like, I'm pretty sure that existed prior to the Last Supper.
[00:06:02.840 --> 00:06:03.720] That's the joke, Kara.
[00:06:04.200 --> 00:06:04.520] Yeah.
[00:06:04.600 --> 00:06:05.880] That's the ridiculousness.
[00:06:05.880 --> 00:06:11.160] Like, you know, it's the idea, like, if you want to, if you're looking to be offended, you will be offended.
[00:06:11.160 --> 00:06:11.720] Right.
[00:06:11.720 --> 00:06:14.680] You know, isn't it how funny to be offended?
[00:06:14.680 --> 00:06:22.760] How funny, how funny to be offended by somebody else's religion because it offends your sensibility about your own religion.
[00:06:22.760 --> 00:06:24.520] What a weird way to live.
[00:06:24.520 --> 00:06:30.200] The director, Thomas Jolly, apparently completely denies that it was inspired by the Last Supper.
[00:06:30.200 --> 00:06:35.320] So that's, and I think that very well could be the case.
[00:06:35.320 --> 00:06:39.480] And again, whether it was or it wasn't, to me, it's irrelevant.
[00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:40.440] It's irrelevant.
[00:06:40.440 --> 00:06:42.680] You have to go out of your way to take offense at it.
[00:06:42.680 --> 00:06:45.880] Well, there were people dressed in drag and that type of thing.
[00:06:45.880 --> 00:06:49.960] And there's a lot of people now that get offended by that.
[00:06:51.400 --> 00:06:51.800] I'm sorry.
[00:06:52.840 --> 00:07:01.280] Yeah, if there is a celebration of a plurality of viewpoints and people, and you're offended because it doesn't fit your narrow view of what the world should look like.
[00:07:01.280 --> 00:07:03.000] Maybe you should look inward.
[00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:04.040] Yeah, definitely.
[00:07:04.040 --> 00:07:07.000] You know, they used a bull's head at some point.
[00:07:07.240 --> 00:07:08.840] It was on the stage somewhere.
[00:07:08.840 --> 00:07:15.920] And, you know, to a certain religion, like, you know, the bull represents one thing and to other mythologies.
[00:07:13.720 --> 00:07:21.280] And I wouldn't just say these are all religions, but just the history of other countries and things that people used to believe.
[00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:26.080] You know, the bull means many different things to many different people.
[00:07:26.080 --> 00:07:27.600] It's exactly what you said, Kara.
[00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:28.240] It's like...
[00:07:28.240 --> 00:07:38.000] Yeah, they had rallies in support of Christianity, among other things, as a response to what they perceived the opening ceremony was to them.
[00:07:38.320 --> 00:07:39.760] How did I just miss this entire?
[00:07:39.840 --> 00:07:45.920] I'm like literally frantically Googling right now because I was completely unaware of this quote-unquote controversy.
[00:07:45.920 --> 00:07:51.440] Because you are a responsible member of society doing your hard work, nose to the grindstone.
[00:07:51.440 --> 00:07:59.120] I mean, it does also look like the painting, The Feast of the Gods, which was a painting of the Greek gods, you know.
[00:07:59.360 --> 00:08:01.520] But anyway, you could go either way.
[00:08:01.520 --> 00:08:03.680] You could say that it was kind of a wink-wink, nod, nod.
[00:08:03.680 --> 00:08:06.800] You know, we're kind of doing it deliberately, but we have plausible deniability.
[00:08:06.800 --> 00:08:16.880] But it's also perfectly plausible that it was just the whole thing was themed after, you know, the Greek gods, which, of course, because it's the Olympics, you know, the bull, everything.
[00:08:16.880 --> 00:08:19.760] But it's like Nostradamus, right?
[00:08:19.760 --> 00:08:21.440] You can take anything he says and interpret it.
[00:08:21.520 --> 00:08:22.160] You could retrofit it.
[00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:23.040] You could retcon it.
[00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:25.120] You could retrofit it to any history, you know what I mean?
[00:08:25.120 --> 00:08:26.480] To make it fit anything.
[00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:32.880] The fact that you could find similarities and imbue your own interpretation on it is not surprising.
[00:08:33.040 --> 00:08:34.720] But of course, that's also part of art.
[00:08:34.720 --> 00:08:42.080] Sometimes artists want people to imbue their own meaning on the work, which is why they don't say what it's supposed to mean.
[00:08:42.080 --> 00:08:43.840] You're supposed to figure it out for yourself.
[00:08:43.840 --> 00:08:52.720] And that's a beautiful thing when it, I think, ventures into narcissism is when you are indignant that something personally offended your sensibilities.
[00:08:52.800 --> 00:08:54.320] It says more about you than anything else.
[00:08:54.320 --> 00:08:54.880] Exactly.
[00:08:54.880 --> 00:08:57.280] Instead of having a global view of the world.
[00:08:57.520 --> 00:09:03.400] By the way, getting back to the athletes and gymnastics, have you guys noticed that gymnasts are getting older?
[00:09:03.800 --> 00:09:04.280] Are they?
[00:08:59.920 --> 00:09:05.000] Oh, yeah.
[00:09:05.320 --> 00:09:11.560] Simone is the oldest winner, I think, in like 30, 40 years, 2027.
[00:09:11.560 --> 00:09:16.120] She's still quite young, but for a gymnast, that's up there.
[00:09:16.440 --> 00:09:18.440] Steve, you're saying the average age of the participants?
[00:09:18.680 --> 00:09:20.200] Yeah, so here's, I found a chart.
[00:09:20.520 --> 00:09:30.520] Because it seemed to me like when we were kids, they were all 15, early teen girls, you know, for the female gymnasts.
[00:09:30.840 --> 00:09:42.760] So what the chart shows is that the average age of women Olympic gymnasts reached its nadir in 1980 at 16.5 years old.
[00:09:42.760 --> 00:09:45.720] It has been steadily increasing since then.
[00:09:45.720 --> 00:09:47.880] Now it's almost 20 years old.
[00:09:47.880 --> 00:10:02.360] But before that, it actually reached its peak in 1952 at 23 years old and decreased steadily from 1952 to 1980, and then the trend reversed and started going up again.
[00:10:02.360 --> 00:10:03.400] That's interesting.
[00:10:03.400 --> 00:10:04.440] Well, the what?
[00:10:04.440 --> 00:10:08.360] The communist countries of Europe after World War II, 1952?
[00:10:08.600 --> 00:10:09.800] Maybe that somehow.
[00:10:10.120 --> 00:10:17.240] No, I'm just, well, not the fault, but a reflection of perhaps that time those countries.
[00:10:17.800 --> 00:10:21.720] They dominated so well that they were looking to emulate that.
[00:10:22.680 --> 00:10:25.720] In fact, the Carolis, the Carolis ran.
[00:10:25.720 --> 00:10:33.960] The Carolis ran the American gymnastics, and they had a lot of say, and they were very, very rough.
[00:10:33.960 --> 00:10:38.440] They were verging on abusive in terms of like what you can eat, what you can do.
[00:10:38.440 --> 00:10:39.400] It was really not good.
[00:10:39.640 --> 00:10:40.760] Like Nadia Komenici.
[00:10:41.040 --> 00:10:46.160] There've kind of had a, they're so much more free now to do kind of like their own thing.
[00:10:46.160 --> 00:10:50.320] And also, the thing that they're focusing on now, it's more power.
[00:10:44.680 --> 00:10:51.120] There's a lot more power.
[00:10:51.440 --> 00:11:02.960] If you're 16 years old and you weigh 85, 90 pounds, you are not going to be able to generate the power that you need to do some of these amazing tumblings that these gymnasts do.
[00:11:02.960 --> 00:11:12.960] And for example, like China this year, their gymnasts were still small and very, you know, very slight, smaller than I think many of the other teams, as far as I could tell.
[00:11:12.960 --> 00:11:22.960] They just did not do well on the vault because you need to jump on that platform and shoot up off of it and the spring platform.
[00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:32.640] And if you're 85 pounds, you're just not going to be able to do that as well as a woman that's heavier, that's got 20, 30 pounds on you, that's older and more mature.
[00:11:32.640 --> 00:11:34.080] You're not going to be able to generate that power.
[00:11:34.080 --> 00:11:45.600] And that's one of the reasons why the men can generate so much power because they, on average, they're going to be heavier, you know, and they're going to be able to leap off of that springboard and do things that even Simone can't do.
[00:11:45.600 --> 00:11:51.120] Yeah, I mean, it's interesting how they, you know, men's and women's gymnastics are two completely different sports.
[00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:53.680] They have different apparatus, they do have different moves.
[00:11:53.680 --> 00:11:56.400] There are a lot of moves that the women do that men can't physically do.
[00:11:56.400 --> 00:11:58.480] There are moves that the men do that women don't do.
[00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:04.880] But it is interesting to see how over time, some of those expectations have been turned on their ear.
[00:12:04.880 --> 00:12:17.920] Men are doing things that are a little more graceful, that are a little more, show off flexibility and sort of lightness on their feet, and women are doing more things, you're right, that show like just sheer power and strength.
[00:12:17.920 --> 00:12:22.400] When you're historically, they were much more, I guess, gendered in that way.
[00:12:22.400 --> 00:12:23.840] Yeah, there's still a long way to go.
[00:12:23.840 --> 00:12:29.080] I mean, the guys' like floor routines are just so regimented and they don't even have music to do they?
[00:12:29.720 --> 00:12:33.080] Yeah, I mean, it's they're not expected to dance around like the women's dance.
[00:12:29.040 --> 00:12:35.320] Yeah, there's no dancing at all.
[00:12:35.480 --> 00:12:41.080] There's no like artistic component like the women's floor routines at all.
[00:12:41.080 --> 00:12:44.840] But yeah, so who knows maybe the men dance.
[00:12:44.840 --> 00:12:47.080] All right, well, let's get started with the news items.
[00:12:47.080 --> 00:12:50.520] Carrie, you're going to tell us about a potential new treatment for progeria.
[00:12:50.920 --> 00:12:53.400] This was an interesting item that I was digging into.
[00:12:53.400 --> 00:12:58.920] It gets deep in the weeds, so I'm going to try and keep it at a reasonable level.
[00:12:58.920 --> 00:13:00.440] So, what does that mean?
[00:13:00.440 --> 00:13:01.480] That it gets deep in the weeds.
[00:13:01.480 --> 00:13:01.960] Oh, it's just.
[00:13:04.280 --> 00:13:17.720] The reason that I wanted to talk about this week is that there was an article published in the New York Times last week, well, within the last week, called A Disease That Makes Children Age Rapidly Gets Closer to a Cure by Gina Collada.
[00:13:17.720 --> 00:13:27.000] I love the way that this piece of science communication or health communication was written because the storytelling component is really lovely.
[00:13:27.000 --> 00:14:06.920] She tells the tale of Francis Collins, former head of the NIH, and his sort of career-spanning interest in progeria, his personal experiences working with patients with progeria, having colleagues who have a colleague with a child with progeria, and the timeline of this very rare genetic disease wanting and passionately being interested in trying to do something about this very rare genetic disease, and being unable to move forward until the technology opened new pathways.
[00:14:06.920 --> 00:14:18.000] And so, you know, there are multiple bottlenecks along the way, but basically, Francis Collins, before he was even at NIH, back when he was training at Yale, became really interested in progeria.
[00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:29.360] It was always in his mind while he was at NIH, he was able to run his own small lab and have a graduate student, and he focused on progeria in that lab.
[00:14:29.680 --> 00:14:39.120] He was involved with the team, I think it was his graduate student, who first identified the genetic mutation that causes progeria.
[00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:51.040] But very often, there wasn't a lot to be done because, you know, identifying why something happens and then actually changing that thing are two completely different animals.
[00:14:51.040 --> 00:14:53.200] So let's take a second and talk about progeria first.
[00:14:53.840 --> 00:15:00.640] When I say progeria, does everybody here, at least on the show, have an image in their head of what that disease is, or is this a new word to you?
[00:15:00.640 --> 00:15:01.200] Oh, yeah.
[00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:02.160] So Bob's got it.
[00:15:02.160 --> 00:15:04.240] Obviously, Steve's got it.
[00:15:04.880 --> 00:15:09.440] Isn't it the kids that have a really large head and they don't age properly?
[00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:10.080] Yes, yes.
[00:15:10.080 --> 00:15:12.800] So sometimes it's referred to as a rapid aging disease.
[00:15:13.680 --> 00:15:19.200] It's sort of a misnomer, but it does actually kind of follow that a little bit.
[00:15:19.520 --> 00:15:23.680] It's actually called Hutchinson-Guilford progeria syndrome.
[00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:26.240] Most people just call it progeria for short.
[00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:31.600] And it's caused by a very, very obvious and individual mutation.
[00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:33.440] It's a dominant negative.
[00:15:33.440 --> 00:15:34.320] So this is interesting.
[00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:35.680] It's actually a dominant gene.
[00:15:35.680 --> 00:15:42.880] And there is, I think, one documented case of a family in India where they did pass this on to their children.
[00:15:42.880 --> 00:15:53.120] But most people with progeria die before their childbearing, or even if they don't die before childbearing age, they are incapable of bearing children.
[00:15:53.120 --> 00:15:54.880] So that part's kind of interesting.
[00:15:54.880 --> 00:16:01.560] So it is dominant, but it's a G, sorry, a CG to TA mutation.
[00:15:59.760 --> 00:16:06.600] It's a simple base pair mutation in a gene called LMNA.
[00:16:06.920 --> 00:16:11.720] That gene LMNA usually encodes for something called nuclear laminin A.
[00:16:12.040 --> 00:16:23.000] Nuclear laminin A, when it's healthy, is involved in building the nucleus of the cell and a few other kinds of components at that core level.
[00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:30.680] When it has undergone this mutation, the RNA missplices and produces something called progerin.
[00:16:30.680 --> 00:16:35.400] And this is a protein that wreaks havoc on these individuals.
[00:16:35.720 --> 00:16:49.400] Very often they refer to it as rapid aging, but it happens because of a whole series of issues, including, I think there's been documented 1,400 different SNPs.
[00:16:49.400 --> 00:17:01.080] So, you know, there's all these different manifestations of this single gene mutation that happened down the line, and it causes the cells to divide incorrectly.
[00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:12.680] Very often, it either limits the ability of the cell to divide, or the cell division is defective, which leads to all this kind of like misorganized chromatin during the cell, or actually, it's the other way around.
[00:17:12.680 --> 00:17:16.600] The misorganized chromatin leads to the cell to divide ineffectively.
[00:17:16.600 --> 00:17:23.320] And very often, I think the average age of the average lifespan of children with progeria is around 13.
[00:17:23.320 --> 00:17:26.040] It might be pushing a little higher, 14, 15 now.
[00:17:26.040 --> 00:17:29.880] They very often die from cardiovascular illness.
[00:17:29.880 --> 00:17:33.720] There are these changes to the heart that occur relatively early on.
[00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:41.080] Some children with progeria will have strokes, but some of the telltale signs have to do with their cardiovascular health.
[00:17:41.080 --> 00:17:44.040] So, and it's a visible disease, right?
[00:17:44.040 --> 00:17:48.320] Like, there's a lot of, would you say, Steve, like pathognemonic signs?
[00:17:48.320 --> 00:17:50.160] Like, you can recognize it when you see it.
[00:17:50.160 --> 00:17:50.560] Yeah.
[00:17:50.560 --> 00:17:50.800] Yeah.
[00:17:50.800 --> 00:17:51.040] Okay.
[00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:53.920] It's what we call an across-the-room diagnosis, right?
[00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:54.800] Totally.
[00:17:54.800 --> 00:17:55.200] Yeah.
[00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:59.120] When you see somebody with progeria, it's it's pretty clear that that's progeria.
[00:17:59.120 --> 00:18:03.840] Um, but interestingly, when they're first born, there aren't aren't signs or symptoms.
[00:18:03.840 --> 00:18:09.120] They're born healthy, and then it, and then they start to see those changes in development.
[00:18:09.120 --> 00:18:19.520] So, coming back to this story, basically, Francis Collins has this lab, he brings in a postdoc, a fellow, and says, Let's figure out what causes progeria.
[00:18:19.520 --> 00:18:20.000] Nobody knows.
[00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:20.800] We need to figure this out.
[00:18:20.800 --> 00:18:26.560] And remember, Francis Collins is a guy who was like part of the, you know, he's like an architect of the Human Genome Project.
[00:18:26.560 --> 00:18:28.960] And this is, he's a geneticist.
[00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:32.000] That was his training.
[00:18:32.320 --> 00:18:37.840] And so he had this postdoc, Maria Erickson, and he said, okay, let's give it a year.
[00:18:37.840 --> 00:18:38.960] Let's see if we can figure this out.
[00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:43.440] And in only a few months, she was able to identify this mutation.
[00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:44.560] And they published a paper.
[00:18:44.560 --> 00:18:46.800] This was way back in 2003.
[00:18:46.800 --> 00:18:48.640] They did a bunch of animal models.
[00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:54.400] They started looking at, you know, cells in petri dishes to try and understand it a little bit better.
[00:18:54.400 --> 00:18:56.720] But at that point, there wasn't really much they could do about it.
[00:18:56.720 --> 00:18:58.720] But then something came along around 2012.
[00:18:58.720 --> 00:18:59.680] What might that have been?
[00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:00.800] CRISPR.
[00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:01.840] CRISPR!
[00:19:01.840 --> 00:19:02.800] Yeah, CRISPR.
[00:19:02.800 --> 00:19:11.280] So CRISPR comes along around 2012, and they're like, holy crap, we can actually go into this very specific mutation and we can cut.
[00:19:11.600 --> 00:19:14.720] But is cutting what they needed?
[00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:20.000] Did they really need to just splice the gene to disable the gene?
[00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:24.560] What was probably even more important than going in and targeting that gene?
[00:19:24.560 --> 00:19:27.520] It was correcting the problem.
[00:19:27.520 --> 00:19:29.040] And how did they correct the problem?
[00:19:29.040 --> 00:19:31.800] Well, that came along in 2017.
[00:19:29.840 --> 00:19:32.120] Dr.
[00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:43.400] David Liu, who's a director of the Merkin Institute for Transformative Technologies in Healthcare at Harvard, developed something really interesting.
[00:19:43.720 --> 00:19:46.840] He developed something called base editing.
[00:19:46.840 --> 00:19:56.680] And base editing started as cytosine base editors and eventually they developed into newer base editors called adenine base editors.
[00:19:56.680 --> 00:20:04.280] And what adenine base editors can do is they can introduce adenine to guanine substitutions, which is a really big deal.
[00:20:04.280 --> 00:20:08.840] So now you can go into a very particular mutation.
[00:20:08.840 --> 00:20:11.480] You can target that mutation using CRISPR.
[00:20:11.480 --> 00:20:20.600] You can use a base editor to then actually correct that mutation by swapping the individual building blocks there.
[00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:36.520] And what do you think happened when they did that first in a mouse model, or maybe I don't know the order, so I'm going to say both in a mouse model, and also in Petri dishes using actual human cells, fibroblast cells, from children with progeria?
[00:20:36.840 --> 00:20:42.680] I would think that it would stop progression, or if it, if it, I mean, I'm thinking more of like if you gave it to a person.
[00:20:43.400 --> 00:20:44.600] Right, and they haven't done that yet.
[00:20:44.920 --> 00:20:50.680] But I would think it would, for a person, it would either stop it or prevent it from manifesting.
[00:20:50.680 --> 00:20:57.000] So in a Petri dish, with these fibroblasts from children, 87 to 91% correction of the pathogenic allele.
[00:20:57.000 --> 00:20:57.320] Nice.
[00:20:57.640 --> 00:21:08.280] They were able to correct the DNA at that level, which then mitigated the missplicing of the RNA, which then reduced the levels of the progerin and corrected those nuclear abnormalities.
[00:21:08.280 --> 00:21:13.160] So you have this downstream effect, 87 to 91% correction.
[00:21:13.720 --> 00:21:14.800] It was a big deal.
[00:21:14.520 --> 00:21:19.920] In mice, a single injection, it was basically an infusion, I think.
[00:21:20.080 --> 00:21:26.800] No, it was an injection, it was retroorbital injection that encoded this adenine base editor, resulted.
[00:21:26.800 --> 00:21:31.680] This is directly from the publication, this was back in 2021 where they did the mouse study.
[00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:40.320] Quote, substantial durable correction of the pathogenic mutation, restoration of normal RNA splicing, and reduction of progerin protein levels.
[00:21:40.320 --> 00:21:43.200] Okay, so the injection was given to the mice at postnatal day 14.
[00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:49.120] And remember, this is a mouse model for progeria by inducing the same genetic mutation in mice.
[00:21:49.120 --> 00:22:07.680] Injected it at day 14 after birth, and they found that the median lifespan of mice went from 215 days in the mice with mouse progeria to 510 days in the mice without, which is the beginning of old age for mice.
[00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:14.400] That's the beginning of what they call like a mouse's elder years or days, I guess you could say.
[00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:26.160] So, you know, they say right there in the paper, these findings demonstrate the potential of in vivo base editing as a possible treatment for HGPS and other genetic diseases by directly correcting their root cause.
[00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:36.160] One of the big hurdles they had to overcome, apparently, was just getting both CRISPR and the base editor into a vector that was small enough to enter a cell.
[00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:37.680] Yeah, vector is always the problem.
[00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:38.000] Yep.
[00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:39.680] They had to find the right virus.
[00:22:39.680 --> 00:22:47.680] They had to do a lot of shrinkage first of the actual apparatus, the technology, and then they had to find the right viral vector to be able to get this to work.
[00:22:47.680 --> 00:23:02.360] But at this point, with such promising results in both mice and in vitro human cells, this team, and this is incredible, this is a team of researchers from all these different labs all over the country.
[00:23:02.680 --> 00:23:15.240] They meet once a week to talk about what's on the horizon, what can they do, and they're actively working now to try and find pharma companies that are interested and to get a clinical trial going.
[00:23:15.240 --> 00:23:22.200] So there is no clinical trial yet, but they're working to obtain permission from the FDA to start a clinical trial right now.
[00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:24.360] They need to find the right pharmaceutical company.
[00:23:24.360 --> 00:23:32.920] And actually, it might not even be a pharma company, but biotech company to make the base editor for use in humans to make sure that it's safe, to make sure that it can fit, and all of the hurdles.
[00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:35.080] It's got to be an orphan disease, right?
[00:23:35.080 --> 00:23:35.480] So that.
[00:23:35.800 --> 00:23:36.520] Oh, 100%.
[00:23:36.520 --> 00:23:41.160] Progeria is, so they call this an ultra-rare genetic disease.
[00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:47.240] They call ultra-rare genetic diseases those that affect fewer than one in one million people.
[00:23:47.240 --> 00:23:49.720] And there are about 7,000.
[00:23:49.720 --> 00:23:51.400] Okay, let me put it this way.
[00:23:51.400 --> 00:23:56.760] There are about 7,000 genetic diseases for which we know what the mutation is.
[00:23:56.760 --> 00:24:01.800] Like we already know where the mutation is, meaning we could potentially do something about it.
[00:24:01.800 --> 00:24:14.520] Of those 7,000, 85% of them are ultra-rare, meaning that they affect fewer than one in a million people, and only 100 or a few hundred of those have treatments available to them.
[00:24:14.520 --> 00:24:17.080] Progeria is especially rare.
[00:24:17.080 --> 00:24:23.160] It apparently only affects one in 18 to 20 million people.
[00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:30.520] So in the United States alone, according to the Progeria Research Foundation, there are only 18 living patients.
[00:24:30.760 --> 00:24:37.240] This is why when there are diseases like this, they're viewed by a lot of researchers as curiosities.
[00:24:37.240 --> 00:24:45.760] They make for great doctoral dissertations, but pharma companies aren't often invested or even labs.
[00:24:44.840 --> 00:24:46.160] Exactly.
[00:24:46.320 --> 00:24:58.720] Like it's a very expensive investment with no return, really, when you're looking at the pure numbers, except for basically the gift to humanity and the gift to these individuals who are suffering and these families who are suffering.
[00:24:58.960 --> 00:25:01.120] I mean, this is a fatal disease.
[00:25:01.120 --> 00:25:07.040] And so this team is doing this with, you know, no remuneration, no hopes for remuneration.
[00:25:07.040 --> 00:25:19.440] They're just meeting because it's fascinating to them, because they are super interested in the biology here, and also because people are born, people are going to continue to be born with progeri, even though it is a hereditary disease.
[00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:23.440] It happens because of an acute random mutation.
[00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:25.120] And so that's always going to happen.
[00:25:25.120 --> 00:25:27.760] It's just happening in very, very low numbers.
[00:25:28.160 --> 00:25:29.200] That is neat.
[00:25:29.840 --> 00:25:30.640] Wow, man.
[00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:31.920] Good old reductionist science.
[00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:36.480] I always say this a lot, but it's like understand something at its fundamental level and fix it.
[00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:38.240] There's just no substitute for that.
[00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:38.720] There isn't.
[00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:50.320] And I love it when science stories are told in the way that this article tells them, where you really feel the history, the human players, and you see, okay, we've gotten as far as we can go.
[00:25:50.320 --> 00:25:51.520] We're going to keep trying.
[00:25:51.520 --> 00:25:56.320] But then all of a sudden a dam breaks loose because a new technology is developed or becomes available.
[00:25:56.320 --> 00:25:57.600] It's just incredible.
[00:25:57.600 --> 00:25:58.720] Thank you, Kara.
[00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:01.600] Jay, give us an update on solid-state batteries.
[00:26:01.600 --> 00:26:03.360] Well, you know what a battery is, right, Steve?
[00:26:03.360 --> 00:26:04.800] I'm vaguely familiar with the idea.
[00:26:05.360 --> 00:26:08.000] It's a park at the tip of Manhattan Island.
[00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:14.320] Just to be clear here, solid-state batteries have existed for quite a while.
[00:26:14.320 --> 00:26:20.160] I mean, basically, they were originally conceived in the 1830s by Michael Faraday.
[00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:22.080] You might have heard his last name.
[00:26:22.080 --> 00:26:22.400] Yeah.
[00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:23.040] And IKEA.
[00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:26.000] I think they made the first one back in the 50s.
[00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:30.680] And today, there's multiple companies that are developing solid-state batteries.
[00:26:29.920 --> 00:26:32.600] Some of them you've heard of, and some you probably haven't.
[00:26:32.760 --> 00:26:37.640] We have Samsung, Toyota, and then you have a company called Quantumscape.
[00:26:37.720 --> 00:26:44.680] There's Solid Power, and then there's Contemporary Amperx Technology Company Limited, C-A-T-L.
[00:26:44.680 --> 00:26:48.280] These are all companies that are working on the technology.
[00:26:48.280 --> 00:26:56.120] So I'm going to talk about Samsung's latest advancement and what is basically going on with their technology.
[00:26:56.120 --> 00:27:09.240] So Samsung recently announced that they made a major advancement in EV batteries, and they revealed it at the SNE Battery Day 2024 Expo, which happened in Seoul, South Korea.
[00:27:09.240 --> 00:27:11.720] This was on July 23rd and 24th.
[00:27:11.720 --> 00:27:13.080] So here's the basics.
[00:27:13.080 --> 00:27:18.200] So their solid-state battery has an estimated 600-mile range.
[00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:23.000] It can charge in nine minutes, and it could have a lifespan of up to 20 years.
[00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:28.840] So Samsung is saying that their new batteries have 500 watt hours per kilogram.
[00:27:28.840 --> 00:27:31.720] This is double the current mainstream EV batteries.
[00:27:31.720 --> 00:27:38.360] The company actually has a pilot solid-state battery production line, and it's fully operational.
[00:27:38.360 --> 00:27:40.440] They're making these batteries right now.
[00:27:40.440 --> 00:27:43.960] This is happening at their RD center in South Korea.
[00:27:43.960 --> 00:27:54.360] So Samsung's SDI batteries stated that they built the pilot line last year to mass produce these solid-state batteries by 2027.
[00:27:54.360 --> 00:27:56.680] So they have initial batches that they're making.
[00:27:56.680 --> 00:28:03.560] They've sent them to EV manufacturing companies for testing, and so far, the feedback has been positive.
[00:28:03.560 --> 00:28:05.880] This is all very, very good news.
[00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:15.840] Now, these batteries are supposed to be smaller, lighter, and a lot safer than standard lithium-ion batteries that are currently basically everywhere, right?
[00:28:14.760 --> 00:28:20.400] You know, in every electric vehicle, and they're just, you know, that is what the world is using right now.
[00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:24.000] So, they're replacing the liquid components with solid ones.
[00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:32.240] They're supposed to be safer than the traditional lithium-ion batteries due to essentially the replacement of the liquid electrolytes with solid electrolytes, right?
[00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:36.480] So, we have, because of this, there is an elimination of flammable liquids, right?
[00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:41.600] So, the liquids that are in a lithium-ion battery are flammable and they could leak, and they do.
[00:28:41.600 --> 00:28:46.880] And you could see videos of people's cell phones having problems and EV bicycles.
[00:28:46.880 --> 00:28:52.480] These batteries are pretty big, and you know, I saw a guy get in an elevator and his battery basically exploded on him.
[00:28:52.800 --> 00:28:53.680] So scary.
[00:28:53.680 --> 00:28:55.360] Yeah, it doesn't happen that often.
[00:28:55.680 --> 00:29:03.600] But, yeah, this is why you have to have your is it that you have to have them in your carry-on and not your checked package?
[00:29:03.600 --> 00:29:05.200] They don't want, yes, yeah, that's why.
[00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:22.160] So, there's also also this thing called a reduced risk of thermal runaway, and this means thermal runaway is a condition where an increase in temperature can cause a further increase in temperature, and this could lead to a fire or explosion.
[00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:28.560] There's enhanced structural integrity in the solid-state batteries, meaning that they could withstand more damage.
[00:29:28.560 --> 00:29:33.680] You know, you drop a lithium-ion battery, and you know, don't feel like everything's okay.
[00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:39.200] You know, like you could do some structural damage, and that could lead to some bad things.
[00:29:39.200 --> 00:29:42.320] And they just overall have improved chemical stability.
[00:29:42.320 --> 00:29:46.160] So, I think that this so far sounds great.
[00:29:46.160 --> 00:29:55.840] Um, there is one caveat, though: the initial production costs are going to be extremely high because they're brand new and they're, you know, they're and they're amazing, you know what I mean?
[00:29:55.840 --> 00:29:57.520] Like, you know, double the range.
[00:29:57.520 --> 00:30:02.040] So, they're the first application is going to be in the ultra-high-end EV market.
[00:30:02.360 --> 00:30:08.760] These are cars that are probably going to be more expensive than, say, you know, $70,000, which most of us can't afford.
[00:30:08.760 --> 00:30:16.840] But just like everything else, you know, as they produce more and more factories come up and more competition catches up, you know, these prices will definitely come down.
[00:30:16.840 --> 00:30:22.440] They're going to be rolling these out in the year 2027, which is really not that far from now.
[00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:31.320] And I think, you know, probably within the next five years, we're going to start to see them trickle down into more and more things that can be affordable to the average person.
[00:30:31.320 --> 00:30:33.240] So, a few clarifications here.
[00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:39.640] I did more research and I wanted to make sure when I say that they could do a nine-minute recharge, what does that actually mean?
[00:30:39.640 --> 00:30:42.920] Well, they don't mean from zero to a hundred percent.
[00:30:42.920 --> 00:30:55.640] What they typically mean with a recharge is a battery on the low end would be at the 10 to 20 percent mark, and then to get it up to 80 percent capacity, that's where the nine-minute charge comes in.
[00:30:55.640 --> 00:31:04.840] You know, the full charge could take a lot longer, and the reason why is when you charge a battery above 80 percent, you have to slow down so you don't damage the battery.
[00:31:04.840 --> 00:31:10.040] So, I don't know what the full 100 percent charge would take, but it's probably an overnight charge just like every other.
[00:31:10.440 --> 00:31:15.320] The thing is, you're not going to use fast charging to go up to 100 percent.
[00:31:15.320 --> 00:31:16.200] No, right, right.
[00:31:16.200 --> 00:31:19.000] You can use it for that 10 to 20 percent up to 80.
[00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:22.920] You can even push it to 85, 90 percent, but that's it.
[00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:30.280] If you're going to be charging, and even for day-to-day use, you don't charge up to 100%, you charge up to 90% or 85%.
[00:31:30.280 --> 00:31:35.960] Yeah, the only time you ever charge up to 100% is like the night before you're going on a long trip.
[00:31:35.960 --> 00:31:36.280] I don't know.
[00:31:36.280 --> 00:31:39.320] When I drove electric, I just plugged it in at night like my cell phone.
[00:31:39.320 --> 00:31:40.200] Yeah, that's what I'm just saying.
[00:31:41.320 --> 00:31:46.320] But you could, like with our Tesla, we program it and we tell it how high to charge it up to.
[00:31:46.320 --> 00:31:46.880] Oh, I see.
[00:31:46.960 --> 00:31:47.520] So we don't care about it.
[00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:49.680] 80%.
[00:31:44.760 --> 00:31:51.520] You know, that's more than we need for day-to-day use.
[00:31:51.680 --> 00:31:54.640] And then twice a year, three times a year, we're going on a long trip.
[00:31:54.960 --> 00:31:58.480] We charge up to 100% just so we get that extra range for the long trip.
[00:31:58.480 --> 00:32:04.640] And then when you fast charge on the highway, you just charge it up to 80% because you could do that in 10, 15 minutes.
[00:32:05.040 --> 00:32:08.320] But it takes like 30 minutes to get that extra 20%, right?
[00:32:08.320 --> 00:32:09.520] It's just not worth it.
[00:32:09.760 --> 00:32:15.840] Yeah, keep in mind, these batteries are going to be roughly double what today's batteries are.
[00:32:15.840 --> 00:32:22.000] So, you know, 80% of a battery that's double what today's range is means everything's fine.
[00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:25.760] You know, it's still a very short charge time.
[00:32:25.760 --> 00:32:29.520] We are shifting towards an EV market here.
[00:32:29.520 --> 00:32:34.960] Of course, we need more charging stations, you know, charging stations and charging infrastructure and the grid.
[00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:37.840] All of these things have to be dramatically improved.
[00:32:37.840 --> 00:32:39.680] It's going to cost billions of dollars.
[00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:44.880] But, you know, society is changing at all times, and these changes cost money and they take time.
[00:32:44.880 --> 00:32:48.160] I'm seeing battery charging stations pop up all the time.
[00:32:48.160 --> 00:33:02.160] So, just for context, though, Jay, the Ampreus silicone anode lithium-ion batteries also have the same exact energy, specific energy of 500 watt hours per kilogram.
[00:33:02.400 --> 00:33:05.840] So, that's over, that was like a year ago, two years ago.
[00:33:05.840 --> 00:33:16.720] So, that's basically the solid-state batteries and the silicon anode batteries are neck and neck in terms of their energy density and specific energy, which is good.
[00:33:16.720 --> 00:33:22.240] I mean, so we already are at the double what was the standard a year or two ago.
[00:33:22.480 --> 00:33:26.080] And again, they're introducing them into the high-end market.
[00:33:26.080 --> 00:33:29.360] And what I'm beginning to see is that, yeah, this is what's happening.
[00:33:29.360 --> 00:33:42.600] If you want a car with a 200 to 250 mile range, you get the lithium-ion batteries that do not use the cobalt and the nickel, right?
[00:33:42.840 --> 00:33:45.880] Because they have a little bit less energy density.
[00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:50.280] If you want the 300 to 400 mile range, then you get the next one up.
[00:33:50.280 --> 00:33:54.920] That's the more standard lithium-ion batteries with cobalt and nickel.
[00:33:54.920 --> 00:34:00.440] And if you want 500 to 600, maybe you'll get a solid-state battery or a silicone anode battery, right?
[00:34:00.440 --> 00:34:05.880] So depending on what your range you want, you will get a battery that fits that range.
[00:34:05.880 --> 00:34:11.000] Of course, you're going to be paying a premium for the super long range vehicles.
[00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:22.040] We've talked about the fact before that range anxiety, I think, is a temporary condition, but the market is basically playing to range anxiety at this point.
[00:34:22.040 --> 00:34:26.840] But people are basically getting way more range than they need, and it's just not cost-effective.
[00:34:26.840 --> 00:34:39.880] We're better off actually just investing in more charging stations to deal with the range anxiety rather than ridiculously long-ranged vehicles that are more than what you're going to need 99% of the time, you know.
[00:34:39.880 --> 00:34:41.160] But yeah, we're well on our way.
[00:34:41.160 --> 00:34:51.640] I think definitely, you know, by the end of the decade, these sort of double energy density batteries, whether it's the solid state or lithium iron, are going to be more standard.
[00:34:51.640 --> 00:34:57.880] And we're going to be moving on to the triple density batteries or, you know, whatever in the twenty to the twenty thirties.
[00:34:58.360 --> 00:35:10.520] And is there anything about the this is me not knowing much about batteries, but there's nothing about solid-state batteries, for example, the technology that would preclude you from having a two-way battery in your house, right?
[00:35:10.840 --> 00:35:15.040] No, like having this as a hi as your house battery, like for battery backup?
[00:35:15.040 --> 00:35:16.640] Yeah, having it as battery storage.
[00:35:16.640 --> 00:35:17.440] Your power wall.
[00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:18.720] Yeah, no, no, it's fine.
[00:35:18.720 --> 00:35:19.040] That's great.
[00:35:14.680 --> 00:35:19.120] Yeah.
[00:35:19.280 --> 00:35:22.320] Because that's what I think that is definitely what we need to be moving forward.
[00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:27.200] But you wouldn't use this battery for that, Kara, because it's way too expensive.
[00:35:27.200 --> 00:35:31.680] What you're going to use for your home battery is the least energy-dense battery.
[00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:36.400] Sorry, to be clear, what I mean is having your car as a backup battery.
[00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:37.120] Oh, having your car.
[00:35:37.360 --> 00:35:43.120] Yeah, I'm talking about this battery in your car serving as a backup battery and having a two-way charge function.
[00:35:43.600 --> 00:35:45.520] There's a lot of discussion about that.
[00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:51.520] And it's really up to the car manufacturers to allow this to happen.
[00:35:51.520 --> 00:36:02.640] So right now, you know, your house gets alternating current energy, and then you need to have a converter to DC because the cars run off of DC.
[00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:09.280] So you would need a DC back to AC if you're going to use your car as a backup battery.
[00:36:09.280 --> 00:36:13.360] And, you know, not all EVs have that.
[00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:19.680] And for some of them, if you use an external DC to AC converter, it voids the warranty.
[00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:21.760] They don't want you to do that.
[00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:25.120] But now I do see the market, there's a lot of discussion.
[00:36:25.120 --> 00:36:30.720] I think it's shifting into just saying, okay, we're going to include the DC to AC converter.
[00:36:30.720 --> 00:36:33.440] And we'll, yes, you can use it for grid backup.
[00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:42.240] Because then we're going to get to the point, I think, where, like, when we park our EV at night, we plug it in every night, no matter what its juice is, right?
[00:36:42.240 --> 00:36:43.280] That's just standard.
[00:36:43.280 --> 00:36:44.720] And we let the car figure it all out.
[00:36:44.720 --> 00:36:45.760] Like, we don't even worry about it.
[00:36:46.080 --> 00:36:47.920] You park and plug, and that's it.
[00:36:47.920 --> 00:36:56.080] If everyone does that, and we're up to the 20, 30, or more percent penetration of EVs, that's massive grid storage, right?
[00:36:56.080 --> 00:37:09.800] And then you could theoretically get a rebate from the power company or from the state or whatever if you agree to plug your car into the grid at nighttime and use it for grid storage, right?
[00:37:09.800 --> 00:37:13.160] Which there's already that for home battery backup.
[00:37:13.160 --> 00:37:21.720] You know, like in Connecticut, there are incentives to have a home battery that the utility company will use to stabilize the grid for peak shaving and all that kind of stuff.
[00:37:21.720 --> 00:37:24.200] And then you add your own solar panel to that.
[00:37:24.200 --> 00:37:24.760] Oh, yeah.
[00:37:24.760 --> 00:37:25.240] Yeah.
[00:37:25.240 --> 00:37:25.720] It's all good.
[00:37:25.880 --> 00:37:28.920] You're off-grid when you need to be, you're on grid when you're giving back.
[00:37:28.920 --> 00:37:31.640] I mean, or when it's peaking, you're giving back when you don't need.
[00:37:31.800 --> 00:37:32.680] I mean, it's great.
[00:37:32.680 --> 00:37:33.800] It just expands the grid.
[00:37:34.280 --> 00:37:40.120] The other thing is, and this is, I think, it's a little bit more speculative, and if it will happen, it's farther off.
[00:37:40.120 --> 00:37:41.320] Is that so?
[00:37:41.320 --> 00:37:44.280] Right now, so solar panels are DC.
[00:37:44.280 --> 00:37:48.680] They convert to AC for your home and then back to DC for your car.
[00:37:48.680 --> 00:37:49.560] And then back to AC.
[00:37:50.280 --> 00:37:53.160] Back to AC if you use your car as a backup.
[00:37:53.160 --> 00:37:58.680] Wouldn't the whole system function better if it was all DC from beginning to end, right?
[00:37:58.680 --> 00:37:59.160] 100%.
[00:37:59.880 --> 00:38:01.240] At least to the box.
[00:38:01.240 --> 00:38:03.480] Everything, but the whole thing could be DC.
[00:38:03.480 --> 00:38:09.400] So the reason that AC won out over DC a hundred years ago.
[00:38:09.480 --> 00:38:10.840] Oh, I thought it was safer.
[00:38:10.840 --> 00:38:11.400] No.
[00:38:12.040 --> 00:38:12.280] No.
[00:38:12.760 --> 00:38:13.960] For those experiments they did.
[00:38:14.200 --> 00:38:17.640] No, it was primarily for long-distance transmission.
[00:38:17.640 --> 00:38:18.600] That was it.
[00:38:18.600 --> 00:38:23.640] AC, there's much less power loss over long distance with AC than with DC.
[00:38:23.640 --> 00:38:24.760] And that was simple.
[00:38:24.760 --> 00:38:26.280] It was a technological feat.
[00:38:26.280 --> 00:38:26.760] That was it.
[00:38:26.760 --> 00:38:27.960] That was a technological reason.
[00:38:27.960 --> 00:38:30.680] That was the reason why AC won out over DC.
[00:38:30.680 --> 00:38:35.240] But now we have the technology for long-distance DC transmission.
[00:38:35.240 --> 00:38:40.440] So that one big advantage to AC, it isn't such an advantage anymore.
[00:38:40.440 --> 00:38:49.360] And now, because of solar panels and car batteries and battery backups, we might be better just going shifting over entirely to DC.
[00:38:44.840 --> 00:38:50.800] But God, that would be a big change.
[00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:59.840] What if we shifted so that the panel was DC, but then the converter was only for things within your home that converted to AC?
[00:39:00.080 --> 00:39:00.560] That would make sense.
[00:39:00.800 --> 00:39:01.760] It could be, yeah, it could be.
[00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:02.800] Like the hub was DC.
[00:39:02.960 --> 00:39:06.960] The AC to DC converter can be before your home.
[00:39:06.960 --> 00:39:07.200] Right.
[00:39:07.200 --> 00:39:10.880] And that way we don't have to change every appliance.
[00:39:11.200 --> 00:39:12.880] After the home is DC.
[00:39:13.920 --> 00:39:14.880] Yeah, that would make sense.
[00:39:14.880 --> 00:39:19.840] Well, but the thing is, like when you have a brick for your laptop, that's an AC to DC converter.
[00:39:19.840 --> 00:39:23.920] Which of course you wouldn't need that if your home was DC.
[00:39:23.920 --> 00:39:33.120] I think we might have a phase where the two systems run in parallel, where there's basically an AC system and a DC system running in parallel.
[00:39:33.120 --> 00:39:40.960] Or again, I think like everything distal to your home is DC, and then it gets converted to AC for the long-distance transmission.
[00:39:40.960 --> 00:39:42.320] So we don't have to replace the grid.
[00:39:42.320 --> 00:39:49.840] But if we're upgrading the grid anyway, we could theoretically put in a DC grid and just make everything DC.
[00:39:49.840 --> 00:39:54.320] I just don't, I think, yeah, it's just, it'd be very difficult to make that level of transition.
[00:39:54.320 --> 00:39:58.720] And that's why there's a little bit of inertia to the technology that we have right now.
[00:39:59.040 --> 00:40:07.040] But if we had it to design all over again, it probably would be better just to make everything DC from beginning to end, which is interesting to think about.
[00:40:07.040 --> 00:40:15.200] Well, it's also, yeah, it makes me think about places in the world where certain technologies are just coming online or where certain infrastructures are just being laid down.
[00:40:15.200 --> 00:40:17.840] It's like, let's skip all of the learning curve.
[00:40:17.800 --> 00:40:20.560] You know, let's start with like the most efficient things we have.
[00:40:20.960 --> 00:40:21.600] Exactly.
[00:40:21.600 --> 00:40:22.480] Exactly.
[00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:28.240] What I would say to someone who's considering FDU is to come because they give great scholarship opportunities.
[00:40:28.240 --> 00:40:30.040] The professors are very helpful.
[00:40:30.040 --> 00:40:32.920] They want you to learn and they want you to pass.
[00:40:29.680 --> 00:40:35.160] And FDU gives you a second family.
[00:40:35.480 --> 00:40:39.080] Seize the moment and change your world at FDU.
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[00:41:39.800 --> 00:41:40.360] All right.
[00:41:40.360 --> 00:41:41.560] Thank you, Jay.
[00:41:41.560 --> 00:41:42.040] You got it.
[00:41:42.040 --> 00:41:46.760] All right, guys, I want to talk about a controversial topic: the CAS review.
[00:41:46.760 --> 00:41:48.360] Have you guys heard about this?
[00:41:48.360 --> 00:41:49.800] I am so glad you're doing this.
[00:41:51.400 --> 00:41:54.440] I, and I personally, like, I've, you know, I've dabbled.
[00:41:54.440 --> 00:41:56.600] A deep dive sounds exciting to me.
[00:41:56.600 --> 00:41:57.560] It's tricky.
[00:41:57.560 --> 00:41:58.440] And yes.
[00:41:58.440 --> 00:42:05.640] We've had a lot of emails of people asking us to talk about the review, and it's taken me a long time.
[00:42:05.640 --> 00:42:10.760] I had to read the whole thing and read plenty of analyses of it and criticisms of it.
[00:42:10.760 --> 00:42:13.320] And I think I understand the core of the issue.
[00:42:13.320 --> 00:42:14.600] Now, this is really complicated.
[00:42:14.600 --> 00:42:16.000] Let me just preface that.
[00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:16.720] So, what is it?
[00:42:16.720 --> 00:42:17.920] What is the CAS review?
[00:42:14.840 --> 00:42:20.560] This has to do with gender-affirming care.
[00:42:20.880 --> 00:42:27.600] And this is a multi-year, very thorough review that was done in the UK.
[00:42:27.920 --> 00:42:29.200] And, you know, Dr.
[00:42:29.200 --> 00:42:32.400] Cass is a pediatrician who headed up the review.
[00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:40.720] And they came up with guidelines and recommendations based upon their exhaustive, systematic review of all the evidence for gender-affirming care.
[00:42:40.720 --> 00:42:43.440] And what are we talking about with gender-affirming care?
[00:42:43.440 --> 00:43:00.560] The big focus of the review was hormones for delaying puberty, but also included cross-sex hormones and gender-affirming surgeries, you know, either breast reduction surgery, mastectomy, or vaginoplasty, or whatever, right?
[00:43:00.560 --> 00:43:02.400] So, you know, basically genital surgery.
[00:43:02.720 --> 00:43:05.760] And can I ask right here at the top before you even get into a deep dive?
[00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:10.160] Because I read an article recently that, I don't know, I feel like we need to make mention of this.
[00:43:10.160 --> 00:43:17.520] The CAS review, is it specifically for gender-affirming surgery in trans individuals, not in cis individuals?
[00:43:17.520 --> 00:43:17.920] Yeah.
[00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:24.880] Okay, because, yeah, I recently came across a study that showed that the vast majority of gender-affirming surgeries that are performed in the U.S.
[00:43:24.880 --> 00:43:27.280] are performed on cis people.
[00:43:28.240 --> 00:43:31.440] So, like, we've got to make sure that we make that clear.
[00:43:31.440 --> 00:43:31.760] Yeah.
[00:43:32.160 --> 00:43:36.720] The CAS review is only looking at surgeries that are affirming the gender of somebody who is trans.
[00:43:37.120 --> 00:43:41.760] It's for gender-affirming care in trans individuals and only in pediatrics, right?
[00:43:41.760 --> 00:43:42.080] Okay.
[00:43:42.080 --> 00:43:43.200] Not in adults.
[00:43:43.680 --> 00:43:50.800] The outcome of this review has been wildly misreported, in my opinion.
[00:43:51.120 --> 00:44:02.360] Every popular mainstream media reporting I have read about it, I feel, especially in the United States, has missed what the report actually says.
[00:44:02.680 --> 00:44:21.960] The narrative has largely been that the medical system in the UK is finally coming to its senses with this really respectable cash review, and American medicine is stubbornly refusing to listen and are considering continuing to do to mismanage pediatric patients.
[00:44:22.680 --> 00:44:26.520] And of course, this is mainly coming from right-leaning journalists.
[00:44:26.520 --> 00:44:31.960] There hasn't been much written by left-leaning journalists in my experience.
[00:44:32.360 --> 00:44:37.640] I think they're just ducking and covering because, again, they don't want to make of it because it's very complicated.
[00:44:37.640 --> 00:44:49.960] But it is largely true that in the UK, there have been already numerous changes in the guidelines and in the practices of the UK Health Service.
[00:44:49.960 --> 00:44:55.080] And the United States medical system has largely ignored the cash review.
[00:44:55.080 --> 00:44:55.560] We have not.
[00:44:55.720 --> 00:44:59.080] Oh, so you're saying those changes in the NHS have been a direct result of the cash review?
[00:44:59.320 --> 00:44:59.560] Absolutely.
[00:45:00.280 --> 00:45:00.680] Okay.
[00:45:00.680 --> 00:45:01.800] Absolutely.
[00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:09.720] And there have been some red state laws in the United States that have cited the cash review to justify things they were already doing.
[00:45:09.720 --> 00:45:15.320] But in terms of the medical establishment in the United States, they have not been impressed.
[00:45:15.320 --> 00:45:17.000] Let me just put it that way.
[00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:25.640] And again, the mainstream journalistic narrative is that, like, again, American doctors are being stubborn and ideological and whatever.
[00:45:25.640 --> 00:45:27.880] And I just don't think that's fair.
[00:45:27.880 --> 00:45:33.640] First of all, I think that a lot of people misunderstand what the cash review actually concluded.
[00:45:33.640 --> 00:45:36.840] And they're making it sound a lot more negative than it was.
[00:45:36.840 --> 00:45:47.760] Now, having said that, they did make some recommendations, which I personally disagree with, and I'll tell you why in a moment, but that are negative about gender-affirming care, but not in the way that people are reporting it.
[00:45:48.080 --> 00:46:04.640] So, first of all, the standard of care that the CAS review recommended is largely in line with the existing standards of care of the Endocrine Society clinical practice guidelines and the WPATH guidelines.
[00:46:04.640 --> 00:46:10.160] This is sort of the major international group looking at gender-affirming care, right?
[00:46:10.480 --> 00:46:16.960] So, it actually isn't that out of line with the published standards of care that already exist.
[00:46:16.960 --> 00:46:20.640] And where it is out of line with it, you know, I do think they get it wrong.
[00:46:20.640 --> 00:46:26.800] The other thing is, nowhere in the review does it say that gender-affirming care does not work.
[00:46:26.800 --> 00:46:31.200] That's the narrative that has sort of come out of it, but that's not what they said.
[00:46:31.200 --> 00:46:35.600] They didn't say that it's harmful, they didn't say it doesn't work.
[00:46:35.600 --> 00:46:47.760] All they said was that it doesn't meet a threshold of evidence to say that we can recommend it outside of the context of a research study.
[00:46:47.760 --> 00:46:54.160] So, their recommendation was like we should not give puberty-delaying hormones outside of a clinical trial, right?
[00:46:54.160 --> 00:46:55.360] That was a specific recommendation.
[00:46:55.600 --> 00:46:55.840] I see.
[00:46:55.840 --> 00:46:57.680] So, they're basically saying we need more research.
[00:46:57.680 --> 00:46:58.560] Yes.
[00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:02.720] Which, of course, sounds superficially reasonable, right?
[00:47:03.040 --> 00:47:10.240] And, of course, you know, maybe the world's preeminent proponent of science-based medicines, it's I coined the term.
[00:47:10.720 --> 00:47:20.800] And that's most of what we talk about on science-based medicine: increasing the threshold of evidence before recommending treatment and like only doing it in the context of clinical trial.
[00:47:20.800 --> 00:47:24.960] But at what point is something like, do we go, okay, we don't need to do any more clinical trials?
[00:47:24.960 --> 00:47:26.400] Well, I would say never.
[00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:37.400] I mean, since we always need to do more clinical trials, but the question is: when you're going from the existing evidence to practice guidelines, how do you do that, right?
[00:47:37.400 --> 00:47:39.160] How do you make that translation?
[00:47:39.160 --> 00:47:47.720] So I think the fortunate thing from my perspective as a science communicator is that we've been writing about this on science-based medicine for 15 years.
[00:47:47.720 --> 00:47:55.640] So we have a long track record of spelling out in excruciating detail what we think that relationship should be.
[00:47:55.640 --> 00:47:58.760] And it's complicated and nuanced.
[00:47:59.320 --> 00:48:02.440] But the good thing is, we could look back at that.
[00:48:02.440 --> 00:48:06.120] This is predating the whole trans issue, right?
[00:48:06.440 --> 00:48:13.560] So it's easy for us to say, this is what we've been saying for 15 years, and now we're just applying it to this one specific case, right?
[00:48:13.880 --> 00:48:20.120] So it does get to the heart of the difference between evidence-based medicine and science-based medicine.
[00:48:20.120 --> 00:48:23.000] So I'm going to just digress a little bit and talk about that.
[00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:32.680] Evidence-based medicine essentially is saying you shouldn't base treatment decisions on just plausibility or because it makes sense or anecdotal evidence or whatever.
[00:48:32.680 --> 00:48:36.760] It needs to be based on the best clinical evidence that we have.
[00:48:36.760 --> 00:48:38.920] And of course, we agree with that.
[00:48:38.920 --> 00:48:46.120] The problem with EBM is that it focuses too narrowly on just the clinical evidence.
[00:48:46.120 --> 00:48:54.760] And what our argument has been at science-based medicine that you need to include all of the evidence, all of the scientific evidence, not just the clinical evidence.
[00:48:54.760 --> 00:49:00.200] You need to include the preclinical evidence, the animal study, plausibility, physics, right?
[00:49:00.200 --> 00:49:12.680] You know, because what happened was homeopathy, acupuncture, Reiki, all of these things that had no prior plausibility or break the laws of physics were like, we love EBM.
[00:49:12.680 --> 00:49:26.480] All we have to do is just roll the dice on clinical trials without any consideration of prior plausibility and basically use that to promote our, then cherry-pick the positive results and use that to promote our nonsense.
[00:49:26.720 --> 00:49:31.040] It's like in science or fiction when you're like, a study says, and I'm like, a study can say anything.
[00:49:31.040 --> 00:49:32.160] Right, right, right.
[00:49:32.720 --> 00:49:35.360] But this cuts both ways, too, right?
[00:49:35.360 --> 00:49:39.920] Because you could also use this to turn skepticism into denial, right?
[00:49:39.920 --> 00:49:45.840] You could also say that, well, you don't have a double-blind placebo-controlled trial, therefore this is not evidence-based.
[00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:57.440] It's like, well, you have to put what evidence is necessary or what evidence is appropriate into the context of the specific treatment.
[00:49:57.440 --> 00:50:01.440] And there's a lot of ways in which you need to do that, but I'm going to focus on two.
[00:50:01.440 --> 00:50:06.640] One is, is it possible to do double-blind placebo-controlled trials?
[00:50:06.640 --> 00:50:10.720] Like, obviously, it's not possible to do it for most surgical interventions.
[00:50:10.720 --> 00:50:19.120] So, if your one threshold of evidence is you need to have double-blind placebo-controlled trials, you could basically rule out all of surgery, right, as not being tried.
[00:50:19.360 --> 00:50:21.120] You could also rule out like most of psychology.
[00:50:21.200 --> 00:50:23.120] That's always been a major issue with psychology.
[00:50:23.840 --> 00:50:28.320] You have to say, all right, for this type of intervention, what is the evidence that we can get?
[00:50:28.320 --> 00:50:34.880] And there may be a ceiling of evidence that we could theoretically get to for ethical and practical and pragmatic reasons.
[00:50:34.880 --> 00:50:40.080] The other issue is that you have to put it into the full context of risk versus benefit, right?
[00:50:40.080 --> 00:50:46.560] It's not just about the treatment, it's also about all the other choices available, including doing nothing.
[00:50:46.880 --> 00:50:53.440] Yeah, and sometimes, and especially in this population, sometimes doing nothing means children dying by suicide.
[00:50:53.440 --> 00:50:56.880] Yeah, so that so this is definitely a core issue here.
[00:50:56.880 --> 00:51:09.800] So, with the review, the review has come under withering criticism from American physicians who specialize in transgender care and even just pediatricians.
[00:51:09.800 --> 00:51:18.280] There was one review in particular, which I recommend, which I'll link to as part of the story, which did come out of Yale.
[00:51:18.520 --> 00:51:37.880] I'm not biased because it's out of Yale, it just happened to come out of Yale, but involved a lot of, you said the author group has collectively 86 years of experience caring for more than 4,800 transgender youth, published 278 peer-reviewed studies, 168 of which are in the field of gender-affirming care.
[00:51:37.880 --> 00:51:43.240] Most of the people involved in the CAS review do not have anywhere near that level of experience.
[00:51:43.880 --> 00:51:48.440] They are mainly pediatricians without experience in transgender care.
[00:51:48.440 --> 00:51:50.040] So, that's one of the criticisms.
[00:51:50.040 --> 00:52:03.560] But even that aside, the criticisms of the CAS review, again, there's a lot of them, and you can get lost in the weeds here, but I'm going to focus on two things specifically.
[00:52:03.560 --> 00:52:25.640] So, if your argument is that the current evidence base for gender-affirming care doesn't meet a threshold of evidence necessary to recommend it outside of clinical research, you have to ask the question: what threshold of evidence?
[00:52:26.040 --> 00:52:29.720] How did you determine that threshold of evidence?
[00:52:29.720 --> 00:52:35.640] And the bottom line is that they just made up a threshold of evidence.
[00:52:35.640 --> 00:52:37.440] Oh, it wasn't based on previous standards.
[00:52:37.640 --> 00:52:49.200] No, they deviated from established norms, established standards of translating evidence into practice guidelines.
[00:52:44.680 --> 00:52:51.520] They did not follow any standard.
[00:52:51.760 --> 00:53:02.000] They just made it up as they went along, which, of course, opens up the possibility that, well, you could have just arbitrarily set the threshold higher than whatever exists.
[00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:03.120] You know what I mean?
[00:53:04.240 --> 00:53:07.200] If you decide after you look at the evidence what the threshold is.
[00:53:07.600 --> 00:53:08.800] Well, that's p-hacking.
[00:53:09.360 --> 00:53:09.840] It's the equivalent of the.
[00:53:10.080 --> 00:53:11.600] It's a form of p-hacking.
[00:53:12.160 --> 00:53:14.160] It's not hacking the p, it's hacking something.
[00:53:14.240 --> 00:53:15.120] It's not hacking the threshold.
[00:53:15.600 --> 00:53:16.560] It's after the fact.
[00:53:16.560 --> 00:53:18.400] It's post-hoc determination.
[00:53:18.720 --> 00:53:19.520] Or ad hoc.
[00:53:19.520 --> 00:53:19.760] Yeah.
[00:53:19.760 --> 00:53:28.000] So rather than here are the established methods that we use to evaluate whether or not the threshold of evidence has been met.
[00:53:28.000 --> 00:53:32.480] And we're going to apply that established standard to this body of evidence.
[00:53:32.480 --> 00:53:33.680] They did not do that.
[00:53:33.680 --> 00:53:35.840] They violated standard practice.
[00:53:36.480 --> 00:53:37.040] It's not good.
[00:53:37.040 --> 00:53:37.760] Yeah, it's not good.
[00:53:37.760 --> 00:53:52.160] And if you look at the details, you know, it becomes pretty egregious because like for the using hormones for delaying puberty, they said, well, we need double-blind placebo-controlled trials, right?
[00:53:52.160 --> 00:53:58.080] And it's like, well, how are you going to blind whether or not somebody is going through puberty or not?
[00:53:58.080 --> 00:53:59.120] You can't.
[00:53:59.120 --> 00:54:07.920] So it's a classic, like they held it to a standard of evidence that really isn't practical and makes no sense, really.
[00:54:07.920 --> 00:54:10.080] So they kind of rigged the game.
[00:54:10.080 --> 00:54:18.640] They're like, there's not enough evidence to recommend this care if you exclude all this positive evidence over here that we arbitrarily are going to say doesn't count.
[00:54:18.640 --> 00:54:21.600] And so that's like the main criticism from U.S.
[00:54:21.600 --> 00:54:24.320] physicians as to why this was not a good review.
[00:54:24.320 --> 00:54:39.400] They basically were excluding all of this pretty good evidence of really positive outcomes from gender-affirming care that just didn't meet a kind of nonsensical threshold that isn't applicable to the context in which they're applying it.
[00:54:39.720 --> 00:54:47.640] And then, on top of it, saying, let's go ahead and get, you know, we can revisit this when you get more evidence, but make sure that evidence is either unethical or unreasonable to get.
[00:54:47.800 --> 00:54:48.360] Exactly.
[00:54:48.360 --> 00:54:49.480] Exactly.
[00:54:49.480 --> 00:55:09.720] The other thing is, is that, and this is what I just spoke about in terms of the context of risk versus benefit, is that they spent a lot of time talking about the risk of hormone therapy in prepubescent children, and they did not consider the risk of not treating those children, right?
[00:55:10.040 --> 00:55:12.920] And so that gets back to what you said, Kara.
[00:55:12.920 --> 00:55:17.480] If the risk of, and again, this is, I think, the inherent dilemma.
[00:55:17.480 --> 00:55:22.360] This is the inherent dilemma of gender-affirming care in minorities, right, in children.
[00:55:22.680 --> 00:55:30.600] So, for example, if you have someone who's 11, 12, pre-puberty, they have a trans identity.
[00:55:30.600 --> 00:55:44.440] And, you know, there are different subsets of people with a trans identity, but a lot of them, I think it's the majority, had their trans identity from as long as they can remember, a very young age, and it's remarkably persistent, right?
[00:55:44.440 --> 00:55:50.280] It has all the features of a this is how your brain developed, this is not a choice or a social contagion.
[00:55:50.280 --> 00:55:51.160] You know what I mean?
[00:55:51.160 --> 00:55:52.120] You're trans.
[00:55:52.120 --> 00:55:56.840] And their trans identity is remarkably stable over a very long period of time.
[00:55:56.840 --> 00:56:08.320] If you look at those subset of people and you have somebody who was, you know, born, identified male at birth, but whose gender identity is female, and they're staring down puberty.
[00:56:08.320 --> 00:56:16.640] You're essentially, you have to consider the risks of forcing somebody who identifies as a female to go through male puberty.
[00:56:16.960 --> 00:56:22.400] Right, because puberty blockers are largely reversible.
[00:56:22.400 --> 00:56:23.440] They deliberately.
[00:56:24.000 --> 00:56:25.520] It's 95% reversible.
[00:56:25.520 --> 00:56:28.480] There's still some debate about the risks and everything.
[00:56:28.560 --> 00:56:28.960] I get that.
[00:56:29.520 --> 00:56:32.560] Somebody that's mostly reversible.
[00:56:32.800 --> 00:56:33.520] Mostly reversible.
[00:56:33.520 --> 00:56:34.880] Puberty, never reversible.
[00:56:34.880 --> 00:56:35.680] Right, but puberty is not reverberated.
[00:56:35.760 --> 00:56:36.480] You can't reverse puberty.
[00:56:36.640 --> 00:56:37.360] Yeah, that's right.
[00:56:37.600 --> 00:56:45.360] And so, yeah, the dilemma is we would love if you could wait until they were 18 and they had years of time to really evaluate it, but they don't.
[00:56:45.680 --> 00:56:52.320] You're forced to make a decision one way or the other before they go through puberty.
[00:56:52.320 --> 00:56:56.640] And, right, especially if you're just talking about like this is the most benign medical thing you could do.
[00:56:56.720 --> 00:57:01.280] You're just delaying puberty to give them more time to figure out if this is what they really want to do.
[00:57:01.280 --> 00:57:25.280] But if you make them go through puberty, now that you have irreversible biological changes that may conflict with their gender identity, if now as an adult, if you say you have to wait till you're 18, they want to reverse those biological changes, you've now said you have to go through multiple, more invasive surgeries with less good results, right?
[00:57:25.280 --> 00:57:38.080] So you're basically condemning them to multiple invasive surgeries with imperfect results because you denied them a much more effective treatment because they were quote unquote too young to get that treatment.
[00:57:38.080 --> 00:57:41.120] And you're ensuring something called gender dysphoria at that point.
[00:57:41.440 --> 00:57:43.840] You're ensuring that they get a diagnosis of gender dysphoria.
[00:57:44.000 --> 00:57:45.840] And of course there's all the psychological stress.
[00:57:45.840 --> 00:57:52.560] Even if they do do gender-affirming care as they're an adult, it doesn't save them from all the psychological distress that it caused.
[00:57:52.560 --> 00:57:59.840] And yes, there is an increased risk of suicide, although exactly what that risk is is still a matter of research, and we should continue to research that.
[00:57:59.880 --> 00:58:11.000] But the numbers are certainly trending in that direction, that it has a positive impact on the survival and the psychology of people who get gender-affirming care.
[00:58:11.320 --> 00:58:12.840] And that's all from internal.
[00:58:12.840 --> 00:58:28.440] I think there's a whole other secondary thing that's probably very rarely considered, which is that gender-based violence is highest among, or not among, but towards trans individuals, and especially trans individuals who, quote unquote, don't pass.
[00:58:28.760 --> 00:58:37.080] Because individuals who are trans, who the general public doesn't know is trans, they are not committing violence against them.
[00:58:37.080 --> 00:58:37.480] Right.
[00:58:37.480 --> 00:58:41.960] The violence is highest towards, you know, we think gender-based violence is highest towards women.
[00:58:41.960 --> 00:58:44.520] It's actually highest towards trans women.
[00:58:44.840 --> 00:58:51.160] And that's not something they can control, what they look like, especially if they were denied puberty delays.
[00:58:52.520 --> 00:58:56.760] So, you know, that's my take on the cash review.
[00:58:56.760 --> 00:59:09.160] It's consistent with what most, with this review coming out of Yale, what many of the gender, you know, the physicians who treat transgender youth are saying about it in the United States.
[00:59:09.160 --> 00:59:12.120] And, you know, I think the criticisms are legitimate.
[00:59:12.120 --> 00:59:17.880] And if you're going to defend the position of the cash review, you have to seriously address those criticisms.
[00:59:17.880 --> 00:59:22.520] You know, why did you choose that standard of that threshold of evidence?
[00:59:22.840 --> 00:59:29.400] Why are you demanding types of evidence that really can't realistically exist in this situation?
[00:59:29.400 --> 00:59:32.280] Why are you ignoring all the risks of not treating?
[00:59:32.600 --> 00:59:35.640] Again, I acknowledge this is a tricky area.
[00:59:35.640 --> 00:59:38.120] This is a huge dilemma.
[00:59:38.120 --> 00:59:39.000] But you know what?
[00:59:39.000 --> 00:59:47.760] You have a group of experts who are thoughtfully going over all of these issues, trying to do the best that they can for these kids.
[00:59:48.080 --> 00:59:58.080] And I see no reason to politicize this whole thing, to get governments involved in sort of telling physicians and the medical community what they can and cannot do.
[00:59:58.320 --> 01:00:08.320] The history of the government, in a draconian way, prescribing to medical professionals what they can and cannot do is not good.
[01:00:08.320 --> 01:00:09.920] That's not a good history.
[01:00:10.160 --> 01:00:22.800] Certainly, in my experience with any laws being passed in the last 20 years, they've all been disastrous, completely against the evidence, completely against science and skepticism.
[01:00:22.800 --> 01:00:23.440] You know what I mean?
[01:00:25.040 --> 01:00:27.360] You don't want to politicize this.
[01:00:27.600 --> 01:00:36.000] The CAS review spends a lot of time complaining about how politicized it's been, but I don't think they've actually turned the heat down on this.
[01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:38.320] I think they turned the heat up, if anything.
[01:00:38.320 --> 01:00:52.480] And they've fueled, I mean, the CASH review has been used now repeatedly in many contexts for anti-trans legislation and for restricting gender-affirming care, even criminalizing it.
[01:00:52.880 --> 01:00:59.040] I think it was very unfortunate that the review, I think, bungled it.
[01:00:59.040 --> 01:01:08.320] I think they dropped the ball in a big way and that it's being kind of exploited by, you know, to fuel this basically culture war that we're in the middle of.
[01:01:08.320 --> 01:01:22.640] And the people who are suffering are, you know, this is the trans community directly because do you think that the CATS review itself and the authors and the architects of the review had a specific agenda?
[01:01:22.640 --> 01:01:22.960] I don't know.
[01:01:23.360 --> 01:01:23.840] I thought about that.
[01:01:24.000 --> 01:01:24.640] It's hard to tell.
[01:01:24.640 --> 01:01:25.040] I don't know.
[01:01:25.040 --> 01:01:25.840] It's hard to tell.
[01:01:25.840 --> 01:01:31.400] I do think, maybe not an agenda, but I think a bias because we're all based, right?
[01:01:29.200 --> 01:01:32.360] And we all have a bias.
[01:01:29.360 --> 01:01:35.480] Every piece of science that's ever been documented has bias.
[01:01:36.200 --> 01:01:40.520] And I do think it's just my personal, this is my take on it since you bring it up.
[01:01:40.520 --> 01:01:48.120] Is that I just think people in general have a, you know, we've lived in a binary world for thousands of years, right?
[01:01:48.120 --> 01:01:50.680] Basically, culturally speaking.
[01:01:50.680 --> 01:01:54.200] And, but the reality is it's not strictly binary.
[01:01:54.200 --> 01:02:01.400] And now that 0.1% or 1% or whatever it is of people who are like, hello, we're here.
[01:02:01.800 --> 01:02:03.160] Yeah, we've existed this whole time.
[01:02:03.640 --> 01:02:05.080] We've been here the whole time.
[01:02:05.080 --> 01:02:13.160] And it's like, you know, it would be kind of nice if we could live our lives and sort of fit into this world that has been created.
[01:02:13.160 --> 01:02:23.080] And people have a really hard time wrapping their head around the fact that gender and sex are not strictly binary.
[01:02:23.080 --> 01:02:25.320] And they just can't handle it.
[01:02:25.640 --> 01:02:27.080] Yeah, they really can't.
[01:02:28.040 --> 01:02:30.120] It's scary to see what some of these people are saying.
[01:02:30.440 --> 01:02:31.640] It's so simple to them.
[01:02:31.640 --> 01:02:34.040] Either you're a man or you're a woman, and that's it.
[01:02:34.040 --> 01:02:35.160] And that's where it ends with them.
[01:02:35.160 --> 01:02:37.720] It's like, it's just reading these comments today.
[01:02:37.720 --> 01:02:39.720] It's just like, oh, it's so much more nuanced.
[01:02:39.720 --> 01:02:42.040] And I don't think they even care to dig any deeper.
[01:02:42.040 --> 01:02:42.520] Yeah, I know.
[01:02:43.080 --> 01:03:00.280] And what's funny is when you read the comments, which of course I do more than I should, is that you have so many people confidently and very derogatorily saying, like, again, trying to take the sort of scientific or skeptical higher grounds, like, of course, there's just two sexes.
[01:03:00.280 --> 01:03:02.680] And it all comes down to this, right?
[01:03:02.680 --> 01:03:07.320] But they each cite something different and mutually exclusive.
[01:03:07.640 --> 01:03:07.960] Right?
[01:03:07.960 --> 01:03:14.440] Like, well, like, they're proposing a range of standards which are not really the same.
[01:03:14.440 --> 01:03:17.040] Like, it's all either your XY or your XX.
[01:03:17.040 --> 01:03:17.600] That's it.
[01:03:17.600 --> 01:03:17.920] That's it.
[01:03:14.600 --> 01:03:18.720] It's a very, very simple thing.
[01:03:14.680 --> 01:03:21.120] Which is insane because then it's like, okay, so there's no Kleinfelds.
[01:03:14.920 --> 01:03:24.000] So, what about all the people who are XXY?
[01:03:24.000 --> 01:03:25.040] What if you're XY?
[01:03:25.680 --> 01:03:26.480] What if you're XY?
[01:03:26.560 --> 01:03:29.280] What if you're, this is my favorite example.
[01:03:29.280 --> 01:03:32.400] You're XY, but you have complete androgen insensitivity.
[01:03:32.400 --> 01:03:36.720] So, even though you're XY, you are otherwise indistinguishable from a woman.
[01:03:36.720 --> 01:03:38.160] Are you a man or a woman?
[01:03:38.160 --> 01:03:39.920] Is that person a man or a woman?
[01:03:39.920 --> 01:03:45.840] There is no correct answer to that question because it all depends on how you decide arbitrarily to define it.
[01:03:45.840 --> 01:03:47.600] What's your defining characteristic?
[01:03:47.600 --> 01:03:49.440] It's not whether or not you have a penis.
[01:03:49.440 --> 01:03:50.880] It's not your chromosomes.
[01:03:50.880 --> 01:03:52.400] It's not your hormones.
[01:03:52.640 --> 01:03:56.960] There's no one thing because they don't always line up one way or the other.
[01:03:57.440 --> 01:03:57.840] And the idea.
[01:03:58.160 --> 01:03:59.200] Yeah, or not.
[01:03:59.200 --> 01:03:59.600] Right.
[01:03:59.600 --> 01:04:06.080] And the idea, like, here's the thing: if Pluto could tell us what Pluto was, wouldn't we just listen to Pluto?
[01:04:06.400 --> 01:04:08.240] Like, and that's kind of how I've always been.
[01:04:08.400 --> 01:04:09.440] Yeah, this is what it comes down to.
[01:04:10.240 --> 01:04:11.680] This is what I think it comes down to.
[01:04:11.680 --> 01:04:13.520] It comes down to brain denial.
[01:04:13.520 --> 01:04:22.400] Because basically, if you really, if you push these people against the wall and you dig down to what they're saying, they're saying that feelings don't count, right?
[01:04:22.400 --> 01:04:23.680] Because they're just feelings.
[01:04:23.680 --> 01:04:24.800] Feelings aren't real.
[01:04:24.800 --> 01:04:26.400] Your penis is real, right?
[01:04:26.400 --> 01:04:27.680] Or your vagina is real.
[01:04:28.480 --> 01:04:29.120] Yikes.
[01:04:29.120 --> 01:04:30.960] But that's basically what they're saying.
[01:04:30.960 --> 01:04:38.400] But the unstated major premise there is that feelings are all psychocultural, social, right?
[01:04:38.400 --> 01:04:42.080] It's like, well, sometimes feelings are brain biology.
[01:04:42.080 --> 01:04:45.120] And they're just assuming that it's not brain biology.
[01:04:45.120 --> 01:04:47.840] Yeah, feelings are things that happen in your brain.
[01:04:47.840 --> 01:04:48.240] Yeah.
[01:04:48.640 --> 01:04:57.600] And like, I think it also comes down to something, even, and, you know, this is more psychological, maybe even sociological, philosophical.
[01:04:57.600 --> 01:05:01.720] It comes down to huma to like humanity, right?
[01:04:59.600 --> 01:05:05.880] Because it's one thing to say, I disagree with your religion.
[01:05:06.200 --> 01:05:14.840] It's another thing, you know, it's one thing to say, I disagree with certain, you know, experiences or certain things that you do in your life.
[01:05:14.840 --> 01:05:18.120] It's another thing to say, I deny your existence.
[01:05:18.440 --> 01:05:20.920] And I think it blows people.
[01:05:20.920 --> 01:05:29.800] Like, can you imagine, and there's a lot of pretty overt racism in this country, but can you imagine if somebody just said, black people don't exist?
[01:05:31.480 --> 01:05:33.000] You just don't exist.
[01:05:33.000 --> 01:05:33.560] Right.
[01:05:33.560 --> 01:05:36.040] You are, you may identify as black.
[01:05:36.040 --> 01:05:37.400] Other people may call you black.
[01:05:37.400 --> 01:05:39.480] But like, listen to me, you're white.
[01:05:39.640 --> 01:05:40.760] You don't exist.
[01:05:40.760 --> 01:05:42.120] Blackness doesn't exist.
[01:05:42.120 --> 01:05:45.400] Like, how nobody would be okay with that.
[01:05:45.400 --> 01:05:47.880] And yet that's exactly what's happening here.
[01:05:47.880 --> 01:05:57.720] Well, I mean, not too long ago, it was sort of a dominant opinion that sexual orientation was, there was only two, or really, you know, one correct sexual orientation.
[01:05:57.960 --> 01:05:58.120] Right.
[01:05:58.120 --> 01:06:01.240] And that everything else was a mental illness or an aberrant choice.
[01:06:01.240 --> 01:06:06.600] It was a delusion or was a cultural choice or was an affectation or whatever.
[01:06:06.600 --> 01:06:10.920] That was a dominant opinion up until fairly recently, you know, culturally speaking.
[01:06:10.920 --> 01:06:11.160] Right.
[01:06:11.160 --> 01:06:13.400] Yeah, then again, that was brain denial.
[01:06:13.400 --> 01:06:15.320] It was like, well, how you feel doesn't really count.
[01:06:15.320 --> 01:06:16.600] It's not real.
[01:06:17.560 --> 01:06:28.840] It's actually personality, like core personality things, like how you identify is like, that's exactly the thing that's dominantly biological and has to do with how your brain developed.
[01:06:29.080 --> 01:06:30.760] Not your own social.
[01:06:31.080 --> 01:06:31.320] Right.
[01:06:31.640 --> 01:06:32.760] It's like personality.
[01:06:32.760 --> 01:06:33.320] We talked about this.
[01:06:33.320 --> 01:06:35.800] Personalities are remarkably stable.
[01:06:35.800 --> 01:06:36.920] You're born with your personality.
[01:06:36.920 --> 01:06:39.480] That's why we call them and you can't change it.
[01:06:39.800 --> 01:06:42.280] That's why we call them traits, not states.
[01:06:42.280 --> 01:06:43.240] Yes, exactly.
[01:06:43.240 --> 01:06:43.640] Yeah.
[01:06:43.960 --> 01:06:55.680] Steve, I noticed that a lot of people equate people saying, you know, for example, I know by appearance I'm male, but I feel female.
[01:06:55.840 --> 01:06:57.600] And that's what they're denying.
[01:06:57.600 --> 01:07:04.800] But they equate that with, well, today I feel, I'm Italian, but I feel Irish.
[01:07:05.200 --> 01:07:07.200] You know, they equate those two things.
[01:07:07.200 --> 01:07:10.400] That just because you feel it does not make it a thing.
[01:07:10.560 --> 01:07:11.920] It's a false analogy.
[01:07:13.120 --> 01:07:14.160] That's common as hell.
[01:07:14.160 --> 01:07:24.560] Yeah, because you're basically confusing a biological trait with a cultural, literally something that's cultural, right?
[01:07:25.840 --> 01:07:28.960] If they're saying that they feel genetically Irish, what does that mean?
[01:07:28.960 --> 01:07:34.320] The thing is that that's not amenable to developmental changes, right?
[01:07:34.640 --> 01:07:38.480] But we know that the brain is a sexual organ, right?
[01:07:38.480 --> 01:07:41.520] We know that the brain development is influenced by sex hormones.
[01:07:41.520 --> 01:07:49.360] We know that you're born with traits that relate to biological sex that have to do with your brain development.
[01:07:49.360 --> 01:07:55.360] And you cannot convert somebody out of their basic neurological trait.
[01:07:55.360 --> 01:07:56.160] You know what I mean?
[01:07:56.160 --> 01:08:00.080] Whether that's their sexual orientation or apparently their gender identity.
[01:08:00.400 --> 01:08:07.520] There hasn't been as much research on it yet as there is about sexual orientation, but that's what everything is pointing in that direction.
[01:08:07.520 --> 01:08:14.000] It certainly is, I think, the most parsimonious conclusion at this point in time, based upon the evidence.
[01:08:14.000 --> 01:08:28.400] And certainly, there is no reason to assume that gender identity is dominantly a social construct or it's primarily a social contagion or a choice or a fad or whatever.
[01:08:28.400 --> 01:08:33.640] No, because, yeah, the incidence is persistent across culture.
[01:08:33.800 --> 01:08:38.280] Like, there's a lot of good evidence to show that that's not the case.
[01:08:38.440 --> 01:08:49.000] And the truth of the matter is, I mean, to even go beyond that, like that false equivalency, that comparison that you brought up, Bob, okay, I'm Italian, but I identify as Irish.
[01:08:49.000 --> 01:08:50.360] Who gives a shit?
[01:08:50.680 --> 01:08:54.280] Like, even if that is true, we don't have any laws.
[01:08:54.840 --> 01:09:01.080] There are literally no laws on the books to prevent somebody from saying, I was born Italian, but I identify as Irish.
[01:09:01.080 --> 01:09:03.560] I'm going to go down to the city hall.
[01:09:03.560 --> 01:09:05.640] I'm going to change my name.
[01:09:06.120 --> 01:09:07.960] I'm going to live my life as an Irish.
[01:09:08.040 --> 01:09:08.920] Sure, go right ahead.
[01:09:08.920 --> 01:09:09.640] We don't care.
[01:09:10.040 --> 01:09:11.000] Why did we care so much?
[01:09:11.800 --> 01:09:12.760] There are people who do that.
[01:09:12.760 --> 01:09:19.560] There are people who are genetically one nationality, but grew up and for whatever reason identify with another one.
[01:09:19.560 --> 01:09:20.280] Good for you.
[01:09:20.280 --> 01:09:21.560] Nobody has any problem with that.
[01:09:22.680 --> 01:09:27.720] This is the same thing back in the 60s and 70s with the gay community.
[01:09:27.720 --> 01:09:28.120] Yeah.
[01:09:28.440 --> 01:09:32.280] People, first off, it's foreign to people.
[01:09:32.520 --> 01:09:35.880] It disrupts the way that they think about the world.
[01:09:36.200 --> 01:09:38.280] It makes them uncomfortable.
[01:09:38.280 --> 01:09:42.280] And for a lot of people, I think it's emotionally very complicated for them.
[01:09:42.840 --> 01:10:10.280] So, on the inconsistency point, I'm going to end on this because that's another angle to the cast review: is that you could also take the standards that they applied and apply them across medicine and show how absolutely inconsistent it is that there are so many treatments that are accepted as the standard of care with the same or lower threshold of evidence as current gender-affirming care.
[01:10:10.480 --> 01:10:12.040] So that's a tell.
[01:10:12.440 --> 01:10:13.160] It's a big tell.
[01:10:13.160 --> 01:10:13.960] Yeah, absolutely.
[01:10:14.200 --> 01:10:14.520] All right.
[01:10:14.640 --> 01:10:15.920] Well, that was a big topic.
[01:10:15.920 --> 01:10:16.720] Let's move on.
[01:10:16.720 --> 01:10:17.200] That's good, though.
[01:10:17.680 --> 01:10:20.640] All right, Evan, give us an update on mammoth DNA.
[01:10:14.680 --> 01:10:21.680] Yeah, mammoth DNA.
[01:10:22.160 --> 01:10:23.040] The latest and greatest.
[01:10:23.040 --> 01:10:24.080] The woolly mammoth.
[01:10:24.080 --> 01:10:26.800] You know, it went extinct about, what, 10,000 years ago?
[01:10:26.800 --> 01:10:28.880] I think it's arguably the first.
[01:10:29.200 --> 01:10:30.880] Yeah, or earlier, Bob.
[01:10:31.360 --> 01:10:37.680] I've heard of isolated instances like even like a crazy, like five or six thousand years ago, I think.
[01:10:37.680 --> 01:10:38.080] Yeah.
[01:10:38.080 --> 01:10:39.200] I read that years ago, though.
[01:10:39.440 --> 01:10:40.240] I looked it up today.
[01:10:40.800 --> 01:10:43.120] They seem to be having it, capping it at 10.
[01:10:43.280 --> 01:10:43.920] Okay, all right.
[01:10:44.160 --> 01:10:45.600] So I haven't looked at it in a while.
[01:10:45.760 --> 01:10:49.520] I think it's arguably the most well-known extinct animal.
[01:10:49.520 --> 01:10:58.400] And therefore, whenever scientists learn more information about the shaggy beasts of the Siberian tundra, it jumps to the front of science news headlines.
[01:10:58.400 --> 01:11:05.920] And this week is no different because loudly and proudly, yet another scientific advancement in the understanding of the woolly mammoth has been made.
[01:11:05.920 --> 01:11:22.720] A team of researchers from Rice University in Texas have spearheaded an international study revealing that a fossilized chromosome from a 52,000-year-old mammoth that was essentially freeze-dried after it died in Siberia.
[01:11:22.720 --> 01:11:24.960] Okay, well, you know, that's interesting.
[01:11:24.960 --> 01:11:30.320] But have we already delved deep into the frozen matter and DNA of woolly mammoth remains?
[01:11:30.320 --> 01:11:35.440] Well, yes, they have, but this particular sample, they hit the DNA mother load.
[01:11:35.440 --> 01:11:36.000] Yep.
[01:11:36.000 --> 01:11:45.280] In prior extractions, woolly mammoth DNA samples collected would be in these very tiny fragments, no more than 100 or so base pairs at a time.
[01:11:45.280 --> 01:11:55.040] But this discovery, in particular, this freeze-dried sample, the DNA was preserved so well the yield was 100 million base pairs.
[01:11:55.040 --> 01:11:59.040] 100 million base pairs, possibly more, and possibly more.
[01:11:59.040 --> 01:12:01.960] But they're confident that they got 100 million base pairs out of it.
[01:12:01.960 --> 01:12:02.520] Yep.
[01:11:59.760 --> 01:12:03.640] That's gargantuan.
[01:12:04.840 --> 01:12:09.080] In fact, Jay told me the other, just a few seconds ago, it was mammoth.
[01:12:10.360 --> 01:12:12.280] That way, if you don't like that joke, you can.
[01:12:12.760 --> 01:12:20.440] Now, this sample shows how the genome was organized in living cells and reveals what genes were active in its skin tissue.
[01:12:20.440 --> 01:12:20.840] Yep.
[01:12:20.840 --> 01:12:25.080] The results of the study were published in the journal Cell, C-E-L-L.
[01:12:25.400 --> 01:12:32.840] The paper is titled Three-Dimensional Genome Architecture Persists in a 52,000-year-old Woolly Mammoth Skin Sample.
[01:12:32.840 --> 01:12:37.640] This is, here's the highlights from the paper's summary paragraph.
[01:12:37.640 --> 01:12:47.320] We use paleohy C to map chromatin contacts and assemble its genome, yielding 28 chromosome-length scaffolds.
[01:12:47.320 --> 01:12:56.120] Chromosome territories, compartments, loops, bar bodies, and inactive X chromosome superdomains persist.
[01:12:56.120 --> 01:13:04.040] The active and inactive genome compartments in mammoth skin more closely resemble Asian elephant skin than other elephant tissues.
[01:13:04.040 --> 01:13:07.320] Our analysis uncovers a new biology.
[01:13:07.320 --> 01:13:15.560] Differences in the compartmentalization reveal genes whose transcript was potentially altered in mammoths versus elephants.
[01:13:15.560 --> 01:13:22.840] So the inactive chromosome, the mammoth, has a tetratic, tetratic T-E-T-R-A-D-I-C.
[01:13:22.840 --> 01:13:23.880] Like a tetrad.
[01:13:23.880 --> 01:13:24.440] Yeah.
[01:13:24.440 --> 01:13:27.800] Not bipartite like human and mouse.
[01:13:27.800 --> 01:13:29.000] Yeah, it's a group of four.
[01:13:29.000 --> 01:13:29.320] Yeah.
[01:13:29.320 --> 01:13:45.120] So we hypothesize that shortly after this mammoth's death, the sample spontaneously freeze-dried in the Siberian cold, leading to a glass transition that preserved sub-fossils of ancient chromosomes at nanometer scales.
[01:13:44.520 --> 01:13:46.400] Okay, so a couple of things here.
[01:13:46.720 --> 01:13:55.520] Paleohy C, that is a high-throughput genomic and epigenomic technique to capture chromatin conformation.
[01:13:55.520 --> 01:14:03.600] And chromatin is a complex of DNA and proteins found in the nucleus of eukaryotic cells and forms, of course, chromosomes.
[01:14:03.600 --> 01:14:14.880] Now, the team determined it had 28 pairs of chromosomes, and that is significant because it's the same number as the mammoth's closest living relatives, modern elephants.
[01:14:14.880 --> 01:14:21.120] So I think that speaks to the robustness or the almost the completion of what they were able to get.
[01:14:21.120 --> 01:14:24.960] The chromosomes were structurally preserved down to the nanometer scale, Bob.
[01:14:24.960 --> 01:14:25.280] Yep.
[01:14:25.840 --> 01:14:27.280] Billionth of a meter, baby.
[01:14:27.280 --> 01:14:28.320] Yeah, baby.
[01:14:28.640 --> 01:14:36.080] The chromosomes retain structural features similar to modern chromosomes, including chromatin loops as small as 50 nanometers.
[01:14:36.080 --> 01:14:44.640] And the three-dimensional arrangement of the DNA fragments in the fossil was shown to be frozen in place for tens of millennia, preserving the entire chromosome structure.
[01:14:44.880 --> 01:14:55.680] Olga Duchenko, who's an assistant professor of molecular and human genetics at Rice University, says that fossil chromosomes are a game changer.
[01:14:55.680 --> 01:15:06.720] Knowing the shape of an organism's chromosomes allows us to assemble the entire DNA sequence of extinct creatures, enabling insights that were previously unpossible.
[01:15:07.200 --> 01:15:07.920] Impossible.
[01:15:08.960 --> 01:15:10.560] Isn't that weird how that triggers in my head?
[01:15:11.920 --> 01:15:15.280] I automatically see unpossible when I read impossible.
[01:15:15.280 --> 01:15:15.800] Oh, my god.
[01:15:16.160 --> 01:15:17.720] The shape of the chromosomes.
[01:15:18.040 --> 01:15:18.280] Yeah.
[01:15:18.520 --> 01:15:20.480] The shape is actually critical.
[01:15:20.480 --> 01:15:21.840] Yeah, apparently so.
[01:15:21.840 --> 01:15:22.560] It allows scientists.
[01:15:22.800 --> 01:15:24.880] If you had the sequence, you'd be good, but the shape?
[01:15:25.280 --> 01:15:29.800] Yeah, apparently the shape is, in fact, a big part of this.
[01:15:29.800 --> 01:15:32.200] And they used, what did they use?
[01:15:32.200 --> 01:15:33.160] I'll jump ahead to that.
[01:15:33.160 --> 01:15:33.560] What was it?
[01:15:29.360 --> 01:15:34.760] The 3D imaging.
[01:15:36.120 --> 01:15:51.240] In order to put this together, Venetius Contessoto, who is a research scientist involved in the project, said it's the first time we have been able to turn back the clock, as it were, to look at chromosomes of extinct species in full 3D.
[01:15:51.480 --> 01:15:55.480] The results are remarkably similar to those of modern elephant chromosomes.
[01:15:55.480 --> 01:16:02.040] And scientists were able to create this 3D model of the chromosomes without relying on existing elephant DNA.
[01:16:02.520 --> 01:16:04.280] All firsts, apparently.
[01:16:04.360 --> 01:16:05.080] Or frauds.
[01:16:05.080 --> 01:16:06.040] As part of this.
[01:16:06.040 --> 01:16:07.160] Yeah, right, exactly.
[01:16:07.160 --> 01:16:08.200] Exactly.
[01:16:08.200 --> 01:16:14.760] So, yeah, and they were able to see which genes were active through this chromosome compartmentalization.
[01:16:14.760 --> 01:16:21.080] The genes whose activation state were altered compared to the modern elephants were associated with what?
[01:16:21.080 --> 01:16:22.920] Hair follicle development.
[01:16:22.920 --> 01:16:23.160] Yeah.
[01:16:23.640 --> 01:16:24.040] Yeah.
[01:16:24.040 --> 01:16:26.280] So the woolly and the woolly mammoth, right?
[01:16:26.280 --> 01:16:27.240] The woolly part.
[01:16:27.960 --> 01:16:33.160] All that hair that the modern elephants don't have for the most part.
[01:16:33.160 --> 01:16:38.120] And here's another aspect to the news that's also groundbreaking and fascinating.
[01:16:38.120 --> 01:16:45.080] So the researchers ask: so, how could ancient chromosomes remain intact for 52,000 years?
[01:16:45.080 --> 01:16:55.000] So what they did is they proposed that the chromosomes were in a state resembling glass, where individual DNA fragments couldn't move far, preserving their structure.
[01:16:55.000 --> 01:17:07.640] And going back to that summary, here's what they wrote: It's known as glass transition, a physical process whereby factors like cooling and dehydration can effectively arrest the diffusion of the molecules in a material.
[01:17:07.640 --> 01:17:17.120] We hypothesize that this glass transition was induced by spontaneous freeze-drying of the woolly mammoth tissue shortly after death in the cold Siberian climate.
[01:17:17.440 --> 01:17:29.600] Yeah, so essentially they said, like, well, this glass-like state of the mammoth remains induced by cooling and dehydration is like that of the jerky we often eat as a snack.
[01:17:29.920 --> 01:17:30.480] What?
[01:17:30.480 --> 01:17:34.000] Yeah, basically they found a mammoth jerky.
[01:17:35.680 --> 01:17:40.720] And when they say glass, they do mean glass because you can shatter this stuff.
[01:17:41.520 --> 01:17:42.000] Right?
[01:17:42.640 --> 01:17:44.400] So it's, but it's very resilient.
[01:17:44.400 --> 01:17:48.560] While it shattered like glass, the chromosomes remained intact inside.
[01:17:49.040 --> 01:17:50.960] I wonder what the upper limit of that is.
[01:17:50.960 --> 01:17:55.760] Like, could we have that DNA preserved in that fashion from dinosaurs?
[01:17:56.720 --> 01:17:59.600] Of course, I would be extending it to millions of years, which is dubious.
[01:17:59.600 --> 01:18:00.640] But I just wonder.
[01:18:00.640 --> 01:18:06.960] I'm curious if that extends the upper limit of DNA that we could possibly reconstruct.
[01:18:06.960 --> 01:18:09.280] But how are we going to find that, though, right?
[01:18:09.280 --> 01:18:18.480] I mean, it's one thing to be 52,000 years old as a specimen, another thing to be 65 plus million years old as a specimen.
[01:18:19.840 --> 01:18:25.200] I mean, if it happened once, I'm sure it happened many times throughout history.
[01:18:25.520 --> 01:18:26.560] Did it survive, though?
[01:18:26.560 --> 01:18:35.920] Did it not only maintain its integrity, but was it not destroyed by tectonic processes or so many other things, right?
[01:18:36.240 --> 01:18:37.280] Could have interfered with that.
[01:18:37.280 --> 01:18:40.640] Did it stay in the glass-like, how long did it maintain its glass-like state?
[01:18:40.800 --> 01:18:41.040] Right.
[01:18:41.040 --> 01:18:44.240] It had to maintain that state for, you know, a million years.
[01:18:44.560 --> 01:18:46.560] But that would be fascinating, Steve.
[01:18:46.720 --> 01:18:50.960] The article didn't really talk about, you know, bringing back the woolly mammoth.
[01:18:50.960 --> 01:18:52.400] That's not really what this was about.
[01:18:52.400 --> 01:18:54.400] It was just about these techniques.
[01:18:54.560 --> 01:19:00.360] Well, you know, I mean, they touched on it very briefly, but, you know, that's really not what this was about.
[01:18:59.840 --> 01:19:03.880] So, but that's what the main thing going through my head: like, oh, this is cool.
[01:19:04.680 --> 01:19:06.440] When are they going to put one?
[01:19:06.440 --> 01:19:09.240] When are they going to de-extinct the mammoth?
[01:19:09.240 --> 01:19:12.920] Yeah, which we've talked about in critical prior episodes.
[01:19:12.920 --> 01:19:15.720] Yeah, but not in light of this new evidence.
[01:19:15.720 --> 01:19:16.440] True.
[01:19:16.440 --> 01:19:17.960] No, you're right, Bob.
[01:19:18.280 --> 01:19:25.160] Here's my fantasy: Can they bring it back, but can they make it like dog-sized so that you can have a little pet woolly mammoth in your house?
[01:19:25.160 --> 01:19:25.560] Oh, my God.
[01:19:25.720 --> 01:19:26.040] So cute.
[01:19:27.240 --> 01:19:27.880] Oh, my God.
[01:19:27.880 --> 01:19:28.680] Oh, my God.
[01:19:28.680 --> 01:19:28.920] Right?
[01:19:28.920 --> 01:19:30.120] Wouldn't that be adorable?
[01:19:30.840 --> 01:19:35.640] And you wouldn't have to worry about it, you know, wreaking havoc on the environment.
[01:19:35.640 --> 01:19:36.920] Otherwise, what are you going to do?
[01:19:36.920 --> 01:19:41.080] Release a bunch of these enormous creatures into the tundra again?
[01:19:41.400 --> 01:19:43.000] You'd have all kinds of problems, which we've seen.
[01:19:43.480 --> 01:19:45.640] I'd still worry about it if they were dog-sized.
[01:19:45.720 --> 01:19:46.680] You think so?
[01:19:46.680 --> 01:19:47.960] 100%.
[01:19:48.440 --> 01:19:50.760] People would be like, wow, I thought this was a good idea.
[01:19:50.760 --> 01:19:54.440] This made a terrible pet, and then release it into the wild.
[01:19:56.840 --> 01:20:05.240] I think maybe we should look at every human decision ever made with regard to domestic kits and base our decisions off of that.
[01:20:05.240 --> 01:20:07.080] Probably, but I don't know.
[01:20:08.760 --> 01:20:11.560] It's so cute.
[01:20:11.880 --> 01:20:19.320] And you can grow, and you can modify them so they don't grow tusks, so they wouldn't become victims of poaching and other things.
[01:20:19.320 --> 01:20:21.160] They probably still smell really bad.
[01:20:21.800 --> 01:20:26.120] Yeah, but I've known some people who have had ferrets, and those things smell awful.
[01:20:26.360 --> 01:20:27.560] They used to keep them in the house.
[01:20:27.720 --> 01:20:28.760] Oh, boy, did they ever.
[01:20:29.080 --> 01:20:30.520] It was totally tolerable.
[01:20:30.520 --> 01:20:33.640] But imagine if it was as big as a dog.
[01:20:33.640 --> 01:20:35.880] You know, elephants are smarter than dogs.
[01:20:35.880 --> 01:20:39.160] Imagine having a super-trained mammoth dog.
[01:20:39.160 --> 01:20:40.200] Yes, Bob.
[01:20:40.200 --> 01:20:41.240] Now you're talking.
[01:20:42.120 --> 01:20:42.840] A carrot.
[01:20:43.240 --> 01:20:44.560] Poor Kara.
[01:20:45.840 --> 01:20:47.120] Of course, you would joke.
[01:20:47.280 --> 01:20:50.080] You're talking about training it in a very nice way.
[01:20:44.120 --> 01:20:50.880] Right, right.
[01:20:51.520 --> 01:20:53.280] Yeah, that's the problem Kara had with it.
[01:20:54.720 --> 01:20:58.320] You weren't nice when you trained your name with a dog.
[01:20:59.920 --> 01:21:00.320] They are.
[01:21:01.040 --> 01:21:02.240] They are smarter.
[01:21:02.320 --> 01:21:12.080] I remember we were at some nature show in some park, and they're like, yeah, they were training dogs, and there was an elephant enclosure nearby.
[01:21:12.400 --> 01:21:15.760] And the elephants picked it up just by watching faster than the dogs.
[01:21:15.920 --> 01:21:17.200] They were like, they are so smart.
[01:21:17.200 --> 01:21:17.840] It's ridiculous.
[01:21:18.240 --> 01:21:20.480] Some elephants have passed the mirror test.
[01:21:20.720 --> 01:21:21.040] Yeah.
[01:21:21.120 --> 01:21:21.440] Nice.
[01:21:21.440 --> 01:21:21.920] Big ones.
[01:21:22.320 --> 01:21:22.720] Oh, that's good.
[01:21:22.880 --> 01:21:24.000] You know, I have my views.
[01:21:24.000 --> 01:21:32.640] I've done a lot of animal research, and I have my line in the sand of which species I think we shouldn't be doing animal research on.
[01:21:32.640 --> 01:21:39.920] And I think that that often would also apply to which species we should not be domesticating and keeping as tiny little prisoners in our homes.
[01:21:39.920 --> 01:21:40.320] Yeah.
[01:21:40.640 --> 01:21:41.760] I don't disagree with that.
[01:21:42.800 --> 01:21:43.920] What makes it worse, Kara?
[01:21:43.920 --> 01:21:50.080] I'll finish with this: is that some people were talking about, well, maybe we could have it like in the zoo or something.
[01:21:50.080 --> 01:21:53.280] You know, like if we do bring them back, we'll make them zoo attractions.
[01:21:53.440 --> 01:21:54.960] In a way, I think that's even a little more.
[01:21:55.520 --> 01:21:55.760] It is.
[01:21:55.760 --> 01:21:56.480] It's terrible.
[01:21:56.480 --> 01:21:59.520] And there's a lot of ethical considerations around elephants in a zoo.
[01:21:59.520 --> 01:22:00.240] Yeah, absolutely.
[01:22:00.240 --> 01:22:00.560] Yeah.
[01:22:00.560 --> 01:22:00.960] Absolutely.
[01:22:01.120 --> 01:22:02.160] They're social creatures.
[01:22:02.160 --> 01:22:04.560] They need very large roaming areas.
[01:22:04.560 --> 01:22:07.120] Most zoos for elephants are substandard.
[01:22:07.120 --> 01:22:07.600] Yeah.
[01:22:08.160 --> 01:22:14.160] There are some, you know, really good ones with good enclosures, but yeah, I feel bad for them.
[01:22:14.160 --> 01:22:16.080] They're brilliant creatures.
[01:22:16.080 --> 01:22:20.960] For the record, though, dogs domesticated themselves as much as we domesticated them.
[01:22:20.960 --> 01:22:23.200] And we have a very symbiotic relationship.
[01:22:23.200 --> 01:22:25.760] The dogs are quite happy, thank you.
[01:22:26.080 --> 01:22:26.560] I agree.
[01:22:26.560 --> 01:22:28.720] But that happened over tens of thousands of years.
[01:22:29.280 --> 01:22:29.360] Yeah.
[01:22:29.520 --> 01:22:30.280] 40,000.
[01:22:31.080 --> 01:22:33.560] Inducing domestication is very different.
[01:22:34.040 --> 01:22:38.920] Although, I do think that some of the modern breeds of dogs is cruel.
[01:22:38.920 --> 01:22:42.040] It is a breed of dogs that can't breathe.
[01:22:42.040 --> 01:22:42.760] I mean, come on.
[01:22:43.400 --> 01:22:46.360] Yeah, that requires human intervention just to give birth.
[01:22:46.920 --> 01:22:47.560] Yeah.
[01:22:47.880 --> 01:22:51.560] So, I initially chose FDU because it was affordable and it worked with my budget.
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[01:24:04.600 --> 01:24:06.840] Beautiful anonymous changes each week.
[01:24:06.840 --> 01:24:09.560] It defies genres and expectations.
[01:24:09.560 --> 01:24:15.040] For example, our most recent episode, I talked to a woman who survived a murder attempt by her own son.
[01:24:14.680 --> 01:24:18.640] But just the week before that, we just talked the whole time about Star Trek.
[01:24:18.800 --> 01:24:26.560] We've had other recent episodes about sexting in languages that are not your first language or what it's like to get weight loss surgery.
[01:24:26.560 --> 01:24:27.760] It's unpredictable.
[01:24:27.760 --> 01:24:28.480] It's real.
[01:24:28.480 --> 01:24:29.280] It's honest.
[01:24:29.280 --> 01:24:30.240] It's raw.
[01:24:30.240 --> 01:24:33.920] Get Beautiful Anonymous wherever you listen to podcasts.
[01:24:34.240 --> 01:24:36.560] All right, Jay, it's who's that noisy time?
[01:24:36.560 --> 01:24:37.200] All right, guys.
[01:24:37.200 --> 01:24:39.200] Last week I played This Noisy.
[01:24:46.400 --> 01:24:48.000] Do you guys have any guesses?
[01:24:48.000 --> 01:24:51.440] It was like a particularly brutal shaving session.
[01:24:53.200 --> 01:24:54.080] What's going on there?
[01:24:54.080 --> 01:24:54.560] It's rough.
[01:24:57.120 --> 01:24:59.920] Well, a listener named Kathy Collins says, Hi, everyone.
[01:24:59.920 --> 01:25:02.480] I think this sounds like a milkshake machine.
[01:25:02.480 --> 01:25:04.160] And you know, it's funny.
[01:25:04.880 --> 01:25:12.400] I've seen like those machines where you like stick the cup up into like the arm that spins around, you know, to mix it.
[01:25:12.400 --> 01:25:14.080] And, you know, yeah, maybe a little bit.
[01:25:14.080 --> 01:25:15.760] I can kind of hear that.
[01:25:15.760 --> 01:25:17.840] Another listener named William Steele.
[01:25:17.840 --> 01:25:18.720] That's a cool name.
[01:25:18.720 --> 01:25:20.080] William Steele.
[01:25:20.960 --> 01:25:22.720] He writes, Hi, Jay.
[01:25:22.720 --> 01:25:28.400] This week's Noisy really sounds like someone blowing into their hands to do some sort of bird call.
[01:25:28.400 --> 01:25:30.480] Thank you all for another great episode.
[01:25:30.880 --> 01:25:32.640] That is not correct.
[01:25:32.640 --> 01:25:40.560] Although when I was in high school, I used to be able to make fart noises with my hands, and I drove one of my teachers crazy.
[01:25:40.560 --> 01:25:48.600] Hey, Jay, I have to tell you, when I was in college, I went to Disney World, and the bus driver that drove us from the airport to the resort.
[01:25:48.600 --> 01:25:51.120] He was named Rockland Steele.
[01:25:51.120 --> 01:25:52.320] Rockland Steele.
[01:25:52.320 --> 01:25:53.520] And I can't, I can't.
[01:25:53.920 --> 01:25:55.920] It stuck with me my whole life.
[01:25:55.920 --> 01:25:57.680] Rockland Steele, my bus driver.
[01:25:59.800 --> 01:26:11.880] A listener named Samuel Brett wrote in and said, Hey, Jay, my guest for this week's Noisy is a leaking main airlock seal to a CM88B Bison M-Class towing vehicle.
[01:26:11.880 --> 01:26:13.400] Wow, that's very specific.
[01:26:13.400 --> 01:26:13.800] Yeah.
[01:26:13.800 --> 01:26:16.280] You know, I have never seen one of these.
[01:26:16.280 --> 01:26:17.640] I've never driven one of these.
[01:26:17.640 --> 01:26:23.000] I don't know what this is exactly, but it is an M-class towing vehicle.
[01:26:23.000 --> 01:26:24.280] But no, I don't know.
[01:26:24.520 --> 01:26:26.440] You know, you may have heard that.
[01:26:26.440 --> 01:26:31.560] I have never heard the main airlock seal break, but if you say so, I'm with you, man.
[01:26:32.040 --> 01:26:36.600] Another listener named Hunter Richards said, Hunter Richards, another cool name.
[01:26:36.600 --> 01:26:37.560] Another one.
[01:26:37.560 --> 01:26:38.120] Hi, Jay.
[01:26:38.120 --> 01:26:43.720] This week's Noisy sounds a lot like a small motor or compressor, a handheld one that's being shaken.
[01:26:43.720 --> 01:26:47.480] Perhaps a small tire, ball pump, RC motor, or Dremel.
[01:26:47.480 --> 01:26:54.200] Now, typically, I don't let people shotgun me with like, it's a small truck, it's a ball pump.
[01:26:54.200 --> 01:26:55.000] It's an RC motor.
[01:26:55.000 --> 01:26:55.800] It's a Dremel.
[01:26:56.040 --> 01:26:59.320] I don't let people do multiple answers like that.
[01:26:59.320 --> 01:27:01.480] But I thought this one was interesting.
[01:27:02.840 --> 01:27:10.120] I was thinking the common denominator here is that the air compressor is driving it.
[01:27:10.680 --> 01:27:12.280] So I don't think that's a bad guess.
[01:27:12.280 --> 01:27:16.280] I put that one as like, you know, my favorite guess of the week.
[01:27:16.280 --> 01:27:19.000] But unfortunately, there was no winner.
[01:27:19.640 --> 01:27:22.360] So I'm going to pick one of you guys at random.
[01:27:22.360 --> 01:27:26.520] Kara, what do you think this is?
[01:27:27.480 --> 01:27:29.240] Why would I pick you?
[01:27:29.240 --> 01:27:31.000] Ooh, why would you pick me?
[01:27:31.000 --> 01:27:32.840] What do I know that you guys don't know?
[01:27:32.840 --> 01:27:34.440] Is it something in LA?
[01:27:34.760 --> 01:27:39.160] Is it something only women have access to?
[01:27:39.960 --> 01:27:41.400] Secret lairs.
[01:27:41.400 --> 01:27:42.440] Oh, my God.
[01:27:42.760 --> 01:27:43.320] I don't know.
[01:27:43.320 --> 01:27:44.120] I have no idea.
[01:27:44.120 --> 01:27:46.880] I mean, it does sound like a, like a, what do you call it?
[01:27:46.880 --> 01:27:48.880] Like a hedge trimmer?
[01:27:49.200 --> 01:27:50.960] It is a beluga whale.
[01:27:50.960 --> 01:27:52.560] Well, no, it's not.
[01:27:52.560 --> 01:27:55.680] Yep, from the Mystic Aquarium in Connecticut.
[01:27:55.680 --> 01:27:56.240] Yeah.
[01:27:56.480 --> 01:27:57.120] Listen again.
[01:27:57.120 --> 01:28:04.960] So what he's doing is he's blowing air and shaking that big ball that's on, it's in the front of their head that's like that has air in it.
[01:28:05.440 --> 01:28:07.600] And it's making like this sound.
[01:28:07.600 --> 01:28:08.800] So listen again.
[01:28:16.240 --> 01:28:17.360] Yep, now I hear it.
[01:28:17.360 --> 01:28:18.400] Sea creature.
[01:28:19.120 --> 01:28:20.160] At least it's not trying to talk.
[01:28:20.240 --> 01:28:20.800] Didn't catch it.
[01:28:20.800 --> 01:28:21.120] I don't know.
[01:28:21.680 --> 01:28:22.880] I'm disappointed in you, Kara.
[01:28:23.440 --> 01:28:26.080] It's the talking aquatic mammals that really get you.
[01:28:26.240 --> 01:28:28.480] You're like, it's an aquatic animal.
[01:28:28.480 --> 01:28:30.400] No, Kara, that is an airplane.
[01:28:30.400 --> 01:28:31.360] You know what I mean?
[01:28:32.320 --> 01:28:35.040] So I figured you would lead with that, but you didn't.
[01:28:35.280 --> 01:28:37.200] Anyway, it's okay.
[01:28:37.520 --> 01:28:38.240] All right, guys.
[01:28:38.240 --> 01:28:39.120] So that was fun.
[01:28:39.120 --> 01:28:40.880] That was a cool noisy there.
[01:28:40.880 --> 01:28:42.720] I mean, I've said it so many times.
[01:28:42.720 --> 01:28:44.560] It's remarkable how things sound like other things.
[01:28:45.840 --> 01:28:47.200] Context is everything.
[01:28:47.200 --> 01:28:48.320] Thanks, Bob.
[01:28:48.320 --> 01:28:54.800] Anyway, I got an interesting noisy here from a listener named Rabbi Adam Bellows.
[01:28:55.120 --> 01:28:56.320] And here is the noisy.
[01:28:56.800 --> 01:28:58.160] Adam's a longtime listener.
[01:28:58.160 --> 01:28:58.960] That's correct.
[01:28:58.960 --> 01:29:01.440] And here is the noisy.
[01:29:09.520 --> 01:29:11.600] That's someone stapling a cat.
[01:29:12.560 --> 01:29:13.920] I'll give you one hint.
[01:29:17.040 --> 01:29:18.240] Let's hear that again, Evan.
[01:29:18.320 --> 01:29:18.640] Oh, my God.
[01:29:18.880 --> 01:29:20.720] Someone's stapling a cat.
[01:29:22.320 --> 01:29:23.120] See?
[01:29:23.440 --> 01:29:24.160] Oh, my God.
[01:29:24.400 --> 01:29:24.880] Wow.
[01:29:24.880 --> 01:29:25.200] All right.
[01:29:25.200 --> 01:29:28.640] So if you listen to this noisy, you might hear like a rhythm in there.
[01:29:28.640 --> 01:29:30.200] The rhythm is irrelevant.
[01:29:30.200 --> 01:29:31.480] Okay, that's my clue.
[01:29:31.480 --> 01:29:33.400] Just I didn't want anyone to get hung up on the rhythm.
[01:29:29.680 --> 01:29:34.440] It doesn't mean anything.
[01:29:35.320 --> 01:29:43.800] If you guys heard something cool this week or you think you know the answer to this week's noisy, you can email me at wtn at the skepticsguy.org.
[01:29:43.800 --> 01:29:47.480] Steve, I have shut down ticket sales for our 1,000th episode.
[01:29:47.480 --> 01:29:48.040] That's it.
[01:29:48.040 --> 01:29:49.000] Oh, we are.
[01:29:49.560 --> 01:29:51.880] I actually sold more tickets than I wanted to.
[01:29:52.840 --> 01:29:53.960] A little standing room only.
[01:29:55.240 --> 01:29:56.760] No, there won't be standing room only.
[01:29:57.080 --> 01:30:01.480] I just wanted it to be a little bit more cozy in the room, but you know, people want to see us.
[01:30:01.480 --> 01:30:02.920] You know, it's our 1,000th episode.
[01:30:02.920 --> 01:30:04.360] There'll never be another one of these.
[01:30:05.000 --> 01:30:05.880] So that's that.
[01:30:05.880 --> 01:30:11.240] There are still tickets available for the daytime extravaganza.
[01:30:11.240 --> 01:30:14.440] I think that show starts at 2:30 on August 17th.
[01:30:14.440 --> 01:30:16.520] There's still tickets available for that.
[01:30:16.520 --> 01:30:23.880] That's going to be an interesting show, that one in particular, because we're going to be trying out some new bits only in that 2 p.m., that 2:30 show.
[01:30:24.520 --> 01:30:29.000] If you're interested, just go to the skepticsguide.org homepage for the link.
[01:30:29.000 --> 01:30:31.720] We have a new announcement, Steve.
[01:30:33.160 --> 01:30:34.920] Before I do that, let me take things in order.
[01:30:34.920 --> 01:30:38.760] So we go to Chicago and we have three shows that we're doing in Chicago.
[01:30:38.760 --> 01:30:43.960] We're doing two extravaganzas and we're doing one 1,000th show.
[01:30:43.960 --> 01:30:49.240] Then after that, we are going to Las Vegas to go to Saikon, which is the last weekend in August.
[01:30:49.240 --> 01:30:50.120] I mean, October.
[01:30:50.120 --> 01:30:54.680] That's Bob's sacred weekend where he worships the moon.
[01:30:54.920 --> 01:30:55.560] Sacred.
[01:30:55.560 --> 01:30:58.520] And Bob is giving that up to skepticism yet again.
[01:30:58.520 --> 01:30:59.400] Oh, damn it.
[01:30:59.720 --> 01:31:04.120] And then after that, we will be doing yet another show.
[01:31:04.120 --> 01:31:10.040] This time we're going to be in Washington, D.C., and this will be on the only show I have scheduled right now.
[01:31:10.040 --> 01:31:15.920] There'll be another one because we're going to be doing a SGU private show, which will probably happen on December 6th.
[01:31:14.440 --> 01:31:20.480] But for sure, on December 7th, we will be doing an extravaganza.
[01:31:14.920 --> 01:31:21.760] This is in Washington, D.C.
[01:31:22.160 --> 01:31:29.440] If you're interested for those tickets, you can go to the skepticsguy.org and check out the button on our homepage for more info on that and how to buy tickets.
[01:31:29.440 --> 01:31:36.640] And I will announce probably within the next three weeks when and where the private show will be because I've got to focus on the Chicago show.
[01:31:36.960 --> 01:31:46.000] And just to keep everyone up to date, it is very, very likely that I will be planning the next Naticon in May of next year.
[01:31:46.000 --> 01:31:46.640] Yay.
[01:31:46.640 --> 01:31:48.800] So the event will take place in May.
[01:31:48.800 --> 01:31:50.240] Yes, I'm thinking May.
[01:31:50.240 --> 01:31:54.160] But, you know, everything depends on what hotel availability and all those details.
[01:31:54.480 --> 01:31:55.120] Sure.
[01:31:55.120 --> 01:31:57.520] And I have another thing to say to everybody.
[01:31:57.520 --> 01:31:58.320] Oh, geez.
[01:31:58.480 --> 01:32:09.440] If you are an SGU patron at the $5 level or higher, you will be able to see the 1000th SGU show as a live stream, day of real time.
[01:32:09.440 --> 01:32:16.880] So if you want to see that, if you want to see that live five-hour show, all you got to do, if you're a patron, you got it.
[01:32:16.880 --> 01:32:21.600] If you're not a patron, you got to become a $5 patron or higher to see that.
[01:32:21.840 --> 01:32:27.360] Details will be emailed by me and Ian soon about how that's going to work.
[01:32:27.600 --> 01:32:34.000] Right now, we're thinking that we will be doing it through the Patreon app itself, through their website and the app.
[01:32:34.000 --> 01:32:35.280] But we'll let you know.
[01:32:35.280 --> 01:32:38.320] Guys, do you have anything you want to say about the 1000th show?
[01:32:38.320 --> 01:32:39.040] It's coming on.
[01:32:39.040 --> 01:32:40.320] It's fast.
[01:32:40.320 --> 01:32:40.880] Yes, it is.
[01:32:41.120 --> 01:32:41.760] Two weeks, guys.
[01:32:42.080 --> 01:32:46.400] Today's the first as we record this, and it's on the 18th, so we have 17 days.
[01:32:46.400 --> 01:32:47.120] Wow.
[01:32:47.120 --> 01:32:48.240] Our Kilo show.
[01:32:48.240 --> 01:32:48.800] I love it.
[01:32:48.800 --> 01:32:49.760] It always happens like this.
[01:32:50.560 --> 01:32:52.240] It's like, I'm like, oh, I got three months.
[01:32:52.240 --> 01:32:52.880] I got two months.
[01:32:52.880 --> 01:32:55.520] And then all of a sudden, it's like, it's happening.
[01:32:57.040 --> 01:32:57.760] It's fun.
[01:32:57.760 --> 01:32:58.480] We love doing it.
[01:32:58.480 --> 01:32:59.360] And we're really excited.
[01:32:59.360 --> 01:33:01.000] I mean, this is a huge milestone.
[01:33:01.240 --> 01:33:05.560] I got to tell you guys, I've been preparing for this 1,000th show.
[01:33:05.560 --> 01:33:08.520] It's extraordinary how much work it's taking to prepare for this.
[01:33:08.760 --> 01:33:18.200] I had all the patrons and regular listeners go back and go through episodes for us to find us cool moments in previous shows.
[01:33:18.200 --> 01:33:19.720] And I have a spreadsheet for that, right?
[01:33:19.720 --> 01:33:25.160] So I'm going through, and me and Ian and Kelly are going through, and we're trying to find the best stuff.
[01:33:25.160 --> 01:33:30.280] And oh my God, there are so many things that we've talked about and things that we did and moments that we've had.
[01:33:30.280 --> 01:33:41.880] But the thing that reoccurs to me is just how much fun we've had and how much time we spent laughing throughout all these tragedies, you know, the pandemic and crazy political things happening.
[01:33:41.880 --> 01:33:45.000] But we, you know, we always try to maintain our positive attitude.
[01:33:45.000 --> 01:33:47.480] You know, we always can make you laugh, Kara.
[01:33:47.800 --> 01:33:48.760] That's true.
[01:33:48.760 --> 01:33:53.880] Especially Evan's like really, really like, you know, joke bobs that he throws in the background.
[01:33:53.880 --> 01:33:58.120] It would definitely be interesting to see what percentage of the feed is just laughter.
[01:33:58.120 --> 01:34:00.600] And how much does Steve cut out?
[01:34:00.600 --> 01:34:02.120] Because he's like, that's too much.
[01:34:02.120 --> 01:34:03.240] Oh, he cuts out a lot.
[01:34:03.560 --> 01:34:04.360] Gosh.
[01:34:04.680 --> 01:34:10.280] Yeah, because we go off on when we sit here and record this show, we go off on tangents like right now.
[01:34:10.600 --> 01:34:11.960] You know what I mean?
[01:34:12.920 --> 01:34:17.240] Anyway, guys, so I'm really looking forward to this 1,000th show.
[01:34:17.240 --> 01:34:18.600] I think it's going to be really awesome.
[01:34:18.600 --> 01:34:21.560] I just want to make sure everyone knows we will be bringing swag there.
[01:34:21.560 --> 01:34:23.240] We will be signing books.
[01:34:23.800 --> 01:34:28.600] We're going to have a lot of time together because it is a five-hour show, but it's going to go by super fast.
[01:34:28.600 --> 01:34:30.200] We've done these shows before.
[01:34:30.200 --> 01:34:33.000] We know, you know, we have a ton of content.
[01:34:33.000 --> 01:34:39.400] So we're going to make sure that we set time aside to take pictures with everybody and to sign books and sign swag or whatever you want us to do.
[01:34:39.400 --> 01:34:42.280] We want to be there for you, but we do have a ton of stuff to get to.
[01:34:42.280 --> 01:34:45.760] So we're going to start that show and we're going to, you know, hit the ground running.
[01:34:46.080 --> 01:34:57.440] I'm thinking if it's possible, maybe we could meet before the show, before the show begins, to sell swag and assign stuff to get some of that work out of the way for everybody.
[01:34:57.760 --> 01:34:59.520] So I'll keep you updated on that.
[01:34:59.520 --> 01:35:04.960] Either way, you should come to the hotel early, have lunch, you know, get yourself ready for that five-hour show.
[01:35:04.960 --> 01:35:05.360] All right.
[01:35:05.360 --> 01:35:06.080] Thank you, Jay.
[01:35:06.080 --> 01:35:08.640] We're going to do one quick email.
[01:35:08.640 --> 01:35:13.120] This comes from Dave, and Dave writes, I'm a longtime listener and fan of the SGU.
[01:35:13.120 --> 01:35:17.920] I came across this video about electric motor that propels the flagella of bacteria.
[01:35:17.920 --> 01:35:22.400] The structure of this rotating motor made of proteins was amazing to me.
[01:35:22.400 --> 01:35:23.440] Then he gives a link.
[01:35:23.440 --> 01:35:31.200] The video provides a detailed explanation, but unfortunately concludes by hinting at the idea of intelligent design and irreducible complexity.
[01:35:31.200 --> 01:35:37.120] Could you provide a better explanation of the evolution of such a structure rather than just saying it's God's work?
[01:35:37.120 --> 01:35:38.080] Cheers, Dave.
[01:35:38.080 --> 01:35:44.880] So actually, we talked about this on the live stream, but because we got an email, I thought we could also talk about it a little bit here.
[01:35:45.360 --> 01:35:54.960] The video is to a science communicator, Dustin, who does the Smarter Everyday videos.
[01:35:54.960 --> 01:35:56.000] And they're very good.
[01:35:56.000 --> 01:35:57.360] I think we've talked about them before.
[01:35:57.360 --> 01:35:57.680] Oh, yeah.
[01:35:57.680 --> 01:35:58.800] Dustin's usually amazing.
[01:35:58.800 --> 01:36:01.120] He talks about intelligent design in this video.
[01:36:01.120 --> 01:36:01.600] A bit.
[01:36:01.600 --> 01:36:02.320] He does.
[01:36:02.320 --> 01:36:07.840] And that's why it's garnered so much attention because it's a little bit out of step with his usual high-quality science communication.
[01:36:07.840 --> 01:36:18.880] And again, the bulk of the video is talking to scientists who have published some recent detailed models of how the bacterial flagella works, basically higher resolution.
[01:36:18.880 --> 01:36:20.560] And it's very cool.
[01:36:21.040 --> 01:36:36.040] But he does get into a little bit of irreducible complexity talk, you know, and he doesn't provide, he tries to come off as sounding neutral, but he kind of omits the standard scientific explanation.
[01:36:36.360 --> 01:36:39.000] He gives it very short shrift, you know.
[01:36:39.640 --> 01:36:45.640] He doesn't mention, for example, the whole concept of co-aptation, right?
[01:36:45.640 --> 01:36:54.600] That the fact is that, you know, he talked about, well, how could something as complicated as the flagella evolve?
[01:36:54.600 --> 01:36:57.960] Does that mean that every piece of it had an evolutionary advantage?
[01:36:57.960 --> 01:36:59.720] It's like, nobody thinks that.
[01:36:59.720 --> 01:37:07.640] But, you know, the thinking is that it evolved from other things that did things other than work as a flagella, right?
[01:37:07.640 --> 01:37:15.960] Just like bird wings evolved from proto-wings that were not for flying until they got good enough that they could be used for flying, you know?
[01:37:16.360 --> 01:37:18.040] And then they were tweaked for flying.
[01:37:18.040 --> 01:37:28.440] But before that, they could have been used for a lot of other things, thermoregulation and matings, display, guiding leaps, trapping prey, whatever.
[01:37:28.440 --> 01:37:47.560] Similarly, and he did very quickly mention the secretin molecule, but again, gave it very short shrift in that there's a lot of homology between the flagella and this essentially a structure that's used to inject toxin into prey, right?
[01:37:47.560 --> 01:37:51.080] So it doesn't move, but a lot of the pieces are there.
[01:37:51.720 --> 01:38:03.080] And, you know, of course, they're separated by many, many years of evolution, so it's not like a literal stepping stone, but it's like, look, there are closely related proteins that do other things.
[01:38:03.080 --> 01:38:10.600] So, probably there was some pathway through these other functionality before it was a flagella.
[01:38:10.600 --> 01:38:15.000] And it probably was a really crappy flagella, you know, before it was a good flagella.
[01:38:15.840 --> 01:38:24.400] So, the other way to look at this is like the human eye, which is another one that is often proposed as irreducibly complex.
[01:38:24.400 --> 01:38:37.760] Again, the idea of irreducible complexity is a structure that's so complicated it could not have evolved because there's no pathway, there's no evolutionary pathway to that complex structure because you need all the pieces in place before it functions at all.
[01:38:37.760 --> 01:38:42.400] It's like, well, but it could have functioned simpler for something else.
[01:38:42.720 --> 01:38:43.280] Totally.
[01:38:43.280 --> 01:38:49.040] Or, like with the eye example, it could have just been a simpler version of that thing.
[01:38:49.040 --> 01:38:56.480] So, they say, look at the eye, you have a lens and you have an iris and a pupil and a retina, and they're all structured a certain way.
[01:38:56.480 --> 01:38:57.680] It's like, that's right.
[01:38:57.680 --> 01:39:01.120] Or you could have a pinhole, and that's it.
[01:39:01.120 --> 01:39:02.320] And it works.
[01:39:02.320 --> 01:39:08.240] It doesn't work as well as a modern eye does, but you could have just a patch of light-sensitive tissue.
[01:39:08.240 --> 01:39:09.680] That works too.
[01:39:09.680 --> 01:39:13.600] Yeah, you could have just like a floppy little appendage that doesn't have a motor at all at the beginning.
[01:39:15.280 --> 01:39:18.000] Yeah, or whatever, or just very crudely moves, you know.
[01:39:18.000 --> 01:39:18.640] Totally, yeah.
[01:39:18.880 --> 01:39:19.440] Absolutely.
[01:39:19.440 --> 01:39:24.240] And then it gets fine-tuned over time to work better and better until you finally have some.
[01:39:24.240 --> 01:39:30.720] And then, of course, you know, a lot of the intermediary steps are lost to evolutionary history because species go extinct.
[01:39:30.720 --> 01:39:33.840] And then you think, imagine, like, this is an example I often get.
[01:39:35.280 --> 01:39:41.280] Well, the tractor one is a different one than I was going to get, but it's like, I use that for the eye thing.
[01:39:41.280 --> 01:39:49.680] It's like saying, and I literally had a creationist say to me, were people walking around with half eyes on their hanging out of their face, you know, a million years ago?
[01:39:49.680 --> 01:39:54.560] It's like, were people dragging around half a Dear John tractor in the Middle Ages?
[01:39:54.560 --> 01:39:58.080] No, they were using a plow, which works, but it's a lot simpler.
[01:39:58.080 --> 01:40:06.280] So imagine if the only bird that survived, like all birds go extinct except for the hummingbird.
[01:40:06.920 --> 01:40:07.240] Right?
[01:40:07.240 --> 01:40:10.360] And then you look at a hummingbird and how it flies and how it finds.
[01:40:10.760 --> 01:40:12.600] How could it possibly have evolved?
[01:40:12.600 --> 01:40:17.560] You know, think of all the specialization you would need before a hummingbird could fly the way that it does.
[01:40:17.560 --> 01:40:28.280] Because you're missing all the intermediary bird stages, you know what I mean, that were more obvious, not quite as tricked out as the hummingbird.
[01:40:28.280 --> 01:40:28.920] Right?
[01:40:28.920 --> 01:40:29.800] So it's the same thing.
[01:40:30.120 --> 01:40:37.960] If all you're looking at is the bacterial flagella and you are missing 500 million years of intermediary stages or whatever.
[01:40:38.280 --> 01:40:40.760] Which, by the way, none of that stuff fossilizes.
[01:40:40.760 --> 01:40:41.240] Right, right.
[01:40:41.560 --> 01:40:45.240] Like we wouldn't know any stage before what we have right now of a bacterium.
[01:40:45.240 --> 01:40:45.480] Right.
[01:40:45.480 --> 01:40:48.760] It's also, yeah, it's also you're focusing on something that does not fossilize well.
[01:40:48.760 --> 01:40:51.400] So of course we're missing all the details.
[01:40:51.400 --> 01:40:57.560] And you can't say, well, until and unless we can reverse engineer every step along the way, it's impossible.
[01:40:57.560 --> 01:40:58.680] That's ridiculous.
[01:40:58.680 --> 01:40:59.480] Of course it isn't.
[01:40:59.480 --> 01:41:07.880] It's just, it's apt, there are many plausible pathways, and there's some evidence for some of those stepping stones, right?
[01:41:07.880 --> 01:41:09.080] Not all of them.
[01:41:09.080 --> 01:41:16.120] And so the whole irreducible complexity thing just completely fails from a logical and evidentiary point of view.
[01:41:16.120 --> 01:41:16.920] But it was very.
[01:41:17.000 --> 01:41:19.560] But Destin didn't say it was, anything else was impossible.
[01:41:20.200 --> 01:41:24.040] He didn't go full irreducible complexity.
[01:41:24.280 --> 01:41:28.840] What he did was he kind of gave a biased summary of the situation.
[01:41:29.480 --> 01:41:31.320] Which makes sense because Destin is a devout Christian.
[01:41:31.560 --> 01:41:31.800] Absolutely.
[01:41:31.800 --> 01:41:32.840] He's very open about that.
[01:41:32.840 --> 01:41:33.160] Absolutely.
[01:41:33.640 --> 01:41:45.840] And he does a lot of talks about science and his faith and how he sort of finds, you know, how he exists in a world where he's a faithful person who's also, he desperately wants it all to be compatible.
[01:41:45.840 --> 01:41:50.400] And he stepped right up to the edge and basically laid it up without like a lawyer.
[01:41:50.640 --> 01:41:53.600] Like you just sort of lay it up and let the people make their own conclusions kind of thing.
[01:41:53.840 --> 01:41:55.840] And he has plausible deniability.
[01:41:56.400 --> 01:42:06.240] But he definitely gave way more attention to the irreducible complexity side and come very short treatment of the answer to that.
[01:42:06.400 --> 01:42:06.960] That's a bummer.
[01:42:07.200 --> 01:42:08.880] Yeah, it was just a little disappointing.
[01:42:09.440 --> 01:42:15.840] But the 95% of the video was just good science communication about how cool the bacterial flagella is.
[01:42:16.560 --> 01:42:20.400] Anyway, yeah, we talked about that on our Wednesday live stream as well.
[01:42:20.400 --> 01:42:21.040] Interesting.
[01:42:21.040 --> 01:42:22.720] Steve, I got my quick clarification.
[01:42:22.720 --> 01:42:22.960] Yeah.
[01:42:22.960 --> 01:42:25.120] Yes, Bob, you have a quick clarification from last week?
[01:42:25.120 --> 01:42:29.120] Yeah, a clarification about my atomic clock talk recently and metaphor I used.
[01:42:29.280 --> 01:42:37.280] It's in my talk, I compared the up and down transitions of the electrons moving between energy levels to the ticking, the ticks of a clock.
[01:42:37.520 --> 01:42:39.360] And that, it turns out, was incorrect.
[01:42:39.360 --> 01:42:46.320] This is actually a common misconception that was frustratingly common in my research for that topic and in the past as well.
[01:42:46.560 --> 01:42:47.760] I often come across that.
[01:42:47.760 --> 01:42:54.240] The metaphor of a ticking clock in this context should have been related to the frequency of light itself instead.
[01:42:54.240 --> 01:42:58.240] The electron absorbs this light and it moves to the next energetic state.
[01:42:58.240 --> 01:43:01.040] It will then quickly release that energy and move back down.
[01:43:01.040 --> 01:43:09.120] And that radiation absorbed and emitted needs to be 9.192631770 billion hertz.
[01:43:09.120 --> 01:43:13.280] Those are your atomic ticks of the clock and not the electron transitions.
[01:43:13.520 --> 01:43:14.400] Thank you, Dr.
[01:43:14.400 --> 01:43:18.640] Science, also known as my friend Leonard Tramiel, my favorite pedant.
[01:43:18.960 --> 01:43:20.960] I knew something was wrong with that item, Bob.
[01:43:21.040 --> 01:43:21.200] Thank you.
[01:43:21.440 --> 01:43:21.680] Totally.
[01:43:21.760 --> 01:43:23.120] Yeah, I totally picked up on that.
[01:43:23.200 --> 01:43:24.880] Well, that's like two nights of sleep.
[01:43:24.880 --> 01:43:25.360] Yeah.
[01:43:25.680 --> 01:43:26.720] Well, sorry about that.
[01:43:26.720 --> 01:43:27.600] You fail, Bob.
[01:43:27.600 --> 01:43:28.480] All right.
[01:43:29.120 --> 01:43:31.720] Let's move on with science or fiction.
[01:43:34.280 --> 01:43:39.400] It's time for science or fiction.
[01:43:43.560 --> 01:43:56.120] Each week, I come up with three science news items or facts, two real and one fake, and I challenge my panel of expert and very erudite skeptics to tell me which one they think is the fake.
[01:43:56.120 --> 01:43:57.080] I love that word.
[01:43:57.080 --> 01:43:57.720] All right.
[01:43:57.720 --> 01:43:59.080] It was a theme this week.
[01:43:59.080 --> 01:44:00.520] You guys want to guess the theme?
[01:44:00.840 --> 01:44:01.640] Olympics.
[01:44:01.640 --> 01:44:03.320] The Olympics is the Olympics.
[01:44:03.320 --> 01:44:04.760] That is the theme.
[01:44:05.080 --> 01:44:06.200] Crap.
[01:44:09.080 --> 01:44:11.160] Here are three items about the Olympics.
[01:44:11.160 --> 01:44:12.280] You ready?
[01:44:12.600 --> 01:44:25.240] Okay, item number one: the first modern Olympic Games in 1896 involved only 14 nations with only 241 male and 64 female athletes.
[01:44:25.560 --> 01:44:36.760] Item number two, the ancient Olympic Games were banned in 393 AD by the Roman Emperor because they were considered pagan and conflicted with Christian values.
[01:44:36.760 --> 01:44:45.240] And item number three, the 1908 Olympic Games featured pistol dueling in which competitors fired wax bullets at each other.
[01:44:45.240 --> 01:44:46.360] Evan, go first.
[01:44:46.680 --> 01:44:53.640] Okay, 1896 involved only 14 nations with 241 male and 64 female athletes.
[01:44:53.640 --> 01:44:55.320] Why only 14 nations?
[01:44:55.320 --> 01:44:58.040] There were certainly a lot more than that at the time.
[01:44:58.040 --> 01:45:00.920] Why would it have been so restricted?
[01:45:01.880 --> 01:45:11.400] Maybe those are the only countries who could establish teams or enough of a representation to be able to send an athlete.
[01:45:11.400 --> 01:45:15.760] So that would have been maybe concentrated in some nations.
[01:45:15.840 --> 01:45:22.960] Maybe many nations didn't have those kinds of sports systems, sports programs within their society.
[01:45:22.960 --> 01:45:26.080] So that's why that one could likely be the science.
[01:45:26.240 --> 01:45:34.800] The second one about the Olympic Games banned in 393 AD by the Roman Emperor because they were considered pagan.
[01:45:35.440 --> 01:45:37.840] I don't know about this one.
[01:45:37.840 --> 01:45:41.120] This one, I can't quite put my finger on it.
[01:45:41.120 --> 01:45:43.440] It conflicted with Christian values.
[01:45:43.600 --> 01:45:50.560] I suppose that would line up with what was happening in that time in history, but I don't know.
[01:45:50.560 --> 01:45:59.200] That one leaves a lot of room for other reasons for it to have been banned other than it was considered pagan.
[01:45:59.360 --> 01:46:05.520] The last one about 1908 featured pistol dueling and wax bullets.
[01:46:05.520 --> 01:46:11.520] That one sounds the most ridiculous of the three, and for that reason, it's likely science.
[01:46:12.000 --> 01:46:15.520] So for no great reason, I'll go with 393 AD.
[01:46:15.680 --> 01:46:17.520] It was not because.
[01:46:17.520 --> 01:46:21.280] It was canceled, but not because of paganism, shall we say.
[01:46:21.280 --> 01:46:22.240] Okay, Kara.
[01:46:22.240 --> 01:46:32.480] Evan thinks that the ancient Olympic Games were canceled, but not because of Christians not liking paganism.
[01:46:32.480 --> 01:46:34.320] I don't know, that seems reasonable to me.
[01:46:34.320 --> 01:46:34.880] I don't know.
[01:46:34.880 --> 01:46:44.560] Like, this doesn't suit my religious views of the time, and I am some sort of dictator, and you must believe what I want you to believe.
[01:46:44.560 --> 01:46:45.760] Sure, okay.
[01:46:46.080 --> 01:46:50.880] 1908, pistol dueling, shooting wax bullets at each other.
[01:46:50.880 --> 01:46:54.000] That would probably still hurt, you would think.
[01:46:54.240 --> 01:47:01.160] Maybe they wore some sort of like protective, or maybe that's why it was only featured in 1908.
[01:47:01.800 --> 01:47:02.680] Who knows?
[01:47:02.680 --> 01:47:04.120] I didn't say only, but okay.
[01:46:59.920 --> 01:47:05.400] True.
[01:47:05.640 --> 01:47:11.400] The one that sticks out to me is the first modern games.
[01:47:11.720 --> 01:47:14.040] I can't fathom.
[01:47:14.040 --> 01:47:15.880] I hope that I'm wrong here.
[01:47:15.880 --> 01:47:17.000] I really do.
[01:47:17.000 --> 01:47:20.920] But I cannot fathom that women competed in the first Olympic Games.
[01:47:20.920 --> 01:47:31.160] In 1896, I think it took a long time for women to be able to do, quote, sport just in a public arena at all.
[01:47:31.160 --> 01:47:33.080] We had like no rights.
[01:47:33.400 --> 01:47:36.920] I mean, we're starting to get rights, but weren't looking good at that point.
[01:47:36.920 --> 01:47:40.840] So that's going to be my guess is that there were no women in those games.
[01:47:40.840 --> 01:47:43.560] And maybe some of the other numbers are off as well.
[01:47:43.880 --> 01:47:44.840] Okay, Jay.
[01:47:44.840 --> 01:47:47.640] You would think that a wax bullet just wouldn't work, right, Kara?
[01:47:47.880 --> 01:47:48.920] Like out of a gun, probably.
[01:47:48.920 --> 01:47:51.000] Yeah, like it was a special gun.
[01:47:51.000 --> 01:47:52.760] Or maybe a certain type of wax.
[01:47:52.760 --> 01:47:53.480] I don't know.
[01:47:54.040 --> 01:48:04.840] Yeah, I mean, I think I'm going to go with Kara because back in 1896, I just can't, I can't even visualize women competing in the sports, right?
[01:48:04.840 --> 01:48:07.000] What they were re-wearing and all that stuff.
[01:48:07.880 --> 01:48:10.680] I think it makes perfect sense that women were not involved with that sport.
[01:48:10.680 --> 01:48:11.960] So I'm going to go with Kara.
[01:48:11.960 --> 01:48:12.920] And Bob.
[01:48:12.920 --> 01:48:17.320] So yeah, 1908 pistol dueling with wax bullets.
[01:48:17.320 --> 01:48:22.520] That just, it seems outrageous and probably true, but I felt the same way, Jay.
[01:48:22.520 --> 01:48:33.320] I mean, what kind of wax would be strong enough to hold up to a gun and then be hard enough to survive, but then not too hard to like kill you or put your eye out?
[01:48:33.320 --> 01:48:33.720] I don't know.
[01:48:33.720 --> 01:48:37.080] It just sounds so bizarre that it's probably true.
[01:48:37.080 --> 01:48:45.200] The banning of the Olympic Games in 393 AD, that for some reason, that's tickling a memory, probably a false memory.
[01:48:44.600 --> 01:48:51.840] But the one that really struck me the most as soon as I read it was this first one here in 1896.
[01:48:52.000 --> 01:48:56.160] First off, I thought maybe I thought it was 1889, but yeah, that's close enough.
[01:48:56.160 --> 01:49:03.120] I probably misremember that because I think I actually heard it just a few days ago when they actually said that the year, but that's close enough.
[01:49:03.360 --> 01:49:05.760] Yeah, my first thought was that women?
[01:49:05.760 --> 01:49:07.040] No, I don't think so.
[01:49:07.040 --> 01:49:11.920] I just, yeah, I can't imagine that the first few had women or even more than that.
[01:49:11.920 --> 01:49:12.080] Right?
[01:49:12.080 --> 01:49:21.920] So, yeah, so that's the killer for me is that I don't think women would have been involved at all except in some trivial way than actually participating.
[01:49:21.920 --> 01:49:26.160] I don't think they were, you know, society was ready for that yet.
[01:49:26.160 --> 01:49:28.640] All right, so you all agree on the third one.
[01:49:28.640 --> 01:49:29.360] So we'll start there.
[01:49:29.520 --> 01:49:35.040] The 1908 Olympic Games featured pistol dueling, in which competitors fired wax bullets at each other.
[01:49:35.040 --> 01:49:40.320] You all think this one is science, and this one is science.
[01:49:40.320 --> 01:49:40.880] Yep.
[01:49:40.960 --> 01:49:41.680] Oh, no, sweetie.
[01:49:41.920 --> 01:49:43.600] Wax bullets.
[01:49:43.920 --> 01:49:44.320] Wax all the time.
[01:49:45.040 --> 01:49:46.080] Paraffin.
[01:49:46.080 --> 01:49:47.280] They carry, you're correct.
[01:49:47.360 --> 01:49:50.320] They wore protective equipment for the torso, face, and hands.
[01:49:50.320 --> 01:49:51.040] Oh, okay.
[01:49:51.040 --> 01:49:55.920] The competitors included teams from France, the UK, and the USA.
[01:49:56.400 --> 01:50:02.080] The gold was won in the 20-meter by the French athlete and the 30-meter.
[01:50:02.080 --> 01:50:02.960] By Greece.
[01:50:02.960 --> 01:50:04.320] So, yeah, that was it.
[01:50:04.320 --> 01:50:05.760] And it was just one year.
[01:50:05.760 --> 01:50:07.120] And then they decided this was stupid.
[01:50:07.120 --> 01:50:07.760] And they didn't do it.
[01:50:10.960 --> 01:50:12.160] They felt it was whack.
[01:50:12.400 --> 01:50:15.200] There were exhibitions, I think, before that.
[01:50:16.800 --> 01:50:21.560] In 1906, but then they just had the one official game, medal-giving competition in 1908.
[01:50:21.360 --> 01:50:21.720] All right.
[01:50:22.000 --> 01:50:30.000] Did you see that, John Oliver, about like the, I can't remember what it's called, but like the training ground, like the big competition to decide which sports can make it to the Olympics?
[01:50:30.360 --> 01:50:31.000] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:50:31.160 --> 01:50:32.120] There were some weird sports.
[01:50:32.120 --> 01:50:33.080] A lot of weird sports, really.
[01:50:33.880 --> 01:50:35.080] Very odd sports.
[01:50:35.400 --> 01:50:44.280] The ancient, all right, number two, the ancient Olympic Games were banned in 393 AD by the Roman Emperor because they were considered pagan and conflicted with Christian values.
[01:50:44.280 --> 01:50:46.440] Evan, you think this one is the fiction?
[01:50:46.440 --> 01:50:48.600] Everyone else thinks this one is science.
[01:50:48.600 --> 01:50:52.680] And this one is science.
[01:50:52.680 --> 01:50:53.320] Sorry, Evan.
[01:50:53.960 --> 01:50:54.360] Interesting.
[01:50:55.000 --> 01:50:56.120] Is that the only time?
[01:50:56.120 --> 01:50:56.760] Do you want?
[01:50:56.760 --> 01:50:58.280] Well, yeah, it was just banned once.
[01:50:58.280 --> 01:50:58.760] That was it.
[01:50:58.760 --> 01:51:01.800] And then no Olympics for 1,500 years.
[01:51:03.640 --> 01:51:04.520] That was it.
[01:51:04.840 --> 01:51:06.360] Of the ancient Olympics.
[01:51:06.360 --> 01:51:07.880] That's a big banning right there.
[01:51:07.880 --> 01:51:09.480] Yeah, it was very effective.
[01:51:10.440 --> 01:51:12.520] I thought it had something to do with war or conflict.
[01:51:12.760 --> 01:51:15.080] Anyone want to take a stab at who the emperor was?
[01:51:15.080 --> 01:51:15.880] Caligula?
[01:51:15.960 --> 01:51:16.120] No.
[01:51:16.920 --> 01:51:18.120] 393.
[01:51:18.440 --> 01:51:20.680] Theodosius I.
[01:51:21.720 --> 01:51:22.520] You sound familiar?
[01:51:22.760 --> 01:51:23.400] No clue.
[01:51:24.040 --> 01:51:28.280] He was basically the guy who made Christianity the official religion of Rome.
[01:51:28.280 --> 01:51:28.840] Cool.
[01:51:29.160 --> 01:51:29.960] Theo, huh?
[01:51:29.960 --> 01:51:31.160] Theodosius I.
[01:51:31.480 --> 01:51:34.520] He thought the games were equivalent to paganism.
[01:51:34.520 --> 01:51:40.840] He wanted to ban them in order to promote Christianity, the newly minted official religion of Rome.
[01:51:40.840 --> 01:51:42.280] So, yep, that was it.
[01:51:42.280 --> 01:51:43.160] Banned.
[01:51:43.480 --> 01:51:51.080] Which means that the first Olympic Games in 1896 involved only 14 nations with only 241 male and 64 female athletes.
[01:51:51.080 --> 01:51:52.760] Is the fiction?
[01:51:52.760 --> 01:52:01.800] You guys all seem to think that it's the fiction because you think there were no females in the 1896 Olympics, and you're correct.
[01:52:01.800 --> 01:52:02.680] That's why it's the fiction.
[01:52:03.240 --> 01:52:04.360] I tried to sneak that in there.
[01:52:04.360 --> 01:52:05.800] I was hoping you wouldn't notice.
[01:52:05.960 --> 01:52:15.840] You focus on the predictable human beings now, but what year do you think was the first Olympic Games with female athletes?
[01:52:16.080 --> 01:52:17.200] Oh, good question.
[01:52:18.080 --> 01:52:18.720] Maybe like 19.
[01:52:19.680 --> 01:52:22.160] Yeah, sometime around 1920.
[01:52:22.160 --> 01:52:23.600] I don't know what the years they fall on.
[01:52:23.600 --> 01:52:24.640] I don't want to do that math.
[01:52:24.960 --> 01:52:26.240] What about the 40s?
[01:52:26.240 --> 01:52:27.360] Bob says the 40s.
[01:52:27.360 --> 01:52:28.960] Karen, Devin says the 20s.
[01:52:29.600 --> 01:52:31.440] Yeah, not long after the turn of the century.
[01:52:33.440 --> 01:52:34.880] Or the 10s, even.
[01:52:34.880 --> 01:52:36.000] 1932.
[01:52:36.000 --> 01:52:37.120] No, I think before that.
[01:52:37.120 --> 01:52:38.240] Probably the 10s or the 20s.
[01:52:38.400 --> 01:52:39.520] 10 or 20s.
[01:52:39.520 --> 01:52:42.560] It was the next games in 1900.
[01:52:42.560 --> 01:52:42.880] Oh, good.
[01:52:42.880 --> 01:52:44.800] So enough women were pissed.
[01:52:44.800 --> 01:52:47.680] Yeah, it was the second Olympic Games.
[01:52:48.480 --> 01:52:48.960] I'm surprised.
[01:52:49.120 --> 01:52:57.840] There were 22 women competing in five sports: tennis, sailing, croquet, equestrianism, and golf.
[01:52:58.880 --> 01:53:00.400] All the feminine sports.
[01:53:02.080 --> 01:53:02.880] No gymnastics.
[01:53:03.520 --> 01:53:05.680] But it was still probably like, how many women did you see?
[01:53:05.920 --> 01:53:06.720] 22.
[01:53:06.720 --> 01:53:07.600] And how many men?
[01:53:07.600 --> 01:53:09.200] A total of 997.
[01:53:09.200 --> 01:53:09.520] Yeah, yeah.
[01:53:10.000 --> 01:53:10.800] Oh, geez.
[01:53:11.120 --> 01:53:17.600] So there was still a huge asymmetry, but yeah, they did start introducing female athletes in the next, the Second Olympics in 1900.
[01:53:17.600 --> 01:53:19.360] But the other numbers were correct.
[01:53:19.360 --> 01:53:26.000] 1896, 14 nations, 241 male, but just zero female athletes made that the fiction.
[01:53:26.480 --> 01:53:31.440] And it was all of the countries that were involved were European except for the United States.
[01:53:31.440 --> 01:53:32.080] Oh, interesting.
[01:53:32.080 --> 01:53:33.760] And most of the athletes were Greek.
[01:53:33.760 --> 01:53:35.120] Was it in Greece?
[01:53:35.120 --> 01:53:36.160] Yes, it was in Athens.
[01:53:36.160 --> 01:53:36.800] Oh, okay.
[01:53:36.800 --> 01:53:45.280] Most of the gold medals went to the United States, but Greece won the most medals total because they had the most athletes there total.
[01:53:45.280 --> 01:53:48.240] The 1900 Games, guess what city they were in?
[01:53:48.240 --> 01:53:52.240] The next variant, the Second Olympics, were in Rome.
[01:53:52.240 --> 01:53:53.920] Paris, just like this year.
[01:53:54.240 --> 01:53:54.640] Oh, nice.
[01:53:55.440 --> 01:53:56.880] Was that the last time?
[01:53:56.880 --> 01:53:57.120] No.
[01:53:57.120 --> 01:53:57.840] No, it was in Paris.
[01:53:58.000 --> 01:53:58.640] It's been a while, though.
[01:53:58.640 --> 01:53:59.040] It's been a while.
[01:53:59.600 --> 01:54:01.480] It's been in Paris like 80 years, I think.
[01:54:01.480 --> 01:54:03.320] Yeah, there's a lot of weird stuff that happened.
[01:54:00.000 --> 01:54:06.760] I mean, I had a pick of a lot of things I could have included in this.
[01:54:07.320 --> 01:54:11.640] So maybe I might resurrect this theme at some point in the future.
[01:54:11.640 --> 01:54:14.200] But I had to include the pistol dueling one.
[01:54:14.200 --> 01:54:17.880] I mean, yeah, that was so crazy.
[01:54:18.280 --> 01:54:19.240] Bizarre.
[01:54:19.240 --> 01:54:25.480] I could do one just on crazy sports that were tried out at one time or another during the Olympics.
[01:54:25.480 --> 01:54:26.040] Yeah.
[01:54:26.680 --> 01:54:32.600] You know, like we're like, one time, like, maybe we shouldn't do that.
[01:54:33.240 --> 01:54:33.960] All right.
[01:54:33.960 --> 01:54:39.400] Well, Evan, even though you crashed and burned on science or fiction this week, you still get to get nice.
[01:54:39.720 --> 01:54:42.840] That's very empathetic of you, doctor.
[01:54:44.040 --> 01:54:45.080] I love your bedside, man.
[01:54:45.240 --> 01:54:48.040] I wasn't shooting for empathy, but go ahead.
[01:54:48.280 --> 01:54:49.240] Clearly.
[01:54:50.520 --> 01:54:54.760] Scientists think that just regurgitating science is going to cut it.
[01:54:54.760 --> 01:54:56.200] It's not going to cut it.
[01:54:56.200 --> 01:55:04.920] You have to realize people are bringing their backgrounds, their experiences, their personal encounters, their fears, their hopes, their dreams, all of those things.
[01:55:04.920 --> 01:55:12.680] Unless we factor those things in, we're going to fail and we'll just continue to get trampled by the misinformation space.
[01:55:12.680 --> 01:55:23.720] Jessica Steyer from an interview that they had with her, she of the unbiased science podcast, she is the host.
[01:55:23.720 --> 01:55:32.600] And she has expertise in public health, specifically chronic and infectious disease prevention.
[01:55:32.600 --> 01:55:33.240] Cool.
[01:55:33.240 --> 01:55:38.600] She will be joining us at SciCon 2024 in October.
[01:55:38.600 --> 01:55:40.840] And we'll look forward to meeting Dr.
[01:55:40.840 --> 01:55:41.800] Steyer there.
[01:55:41.800 --> 01:55:42.200] Nice.
[01:55:42.200 --> 01:55:42.600] Yep.
[01:55:42.600 --> 01:55:43.080] I like that.
[01:55:43.080 --> 01:55:48.000] I mean, that's a good description for why the skeptic community has to exist, right?
[01:55:48.000 --> 01:55:58.480] Because, you know, it's part of what we do is science communication in the context of all the crazy shit that people believe and all of critical thinking, right?
[01:55:58.480 --> 01:56:03.760] All the biases and heuristics and those hopes and fears that people bring to the table.
[01:56:03.760 --> 01:56:06.560] We take all of that into consideration, right?
[01:56:06.560 --> 01:56:09.440] That's sort of the context in which we communicate science.
[01:56:09.440 --> 01:56:16.240] And I do think it's more effective than just the ivory tower approach, which is just here are the facts, just the facts, ma'am.
[01:56:16.240 --> 01:56:18.240] We don't get involved with anything else.
[01:56:18.800 --> 01:56:20.320] Here's some science.
[01:56:20.320 --> 01:56:22.080] Take that and be a good little fellow.
[01:56:22.640 --> 01:56:24.000] Sometimes it works.
[01:56:24.000 --> 01:56:25.440] It usually doesn't, though.
[01:56:25.440 --> 01:56:26.240] You usually doesn't.
[01:56:26.720 --> 01:56:30.480] Yeah, because you're usually not adding it to an empty vessel.
[01:56:30.800 --> 01:56:33.920] You're adding it to a vessel that is full of all sorts of ideas.
[01:56:33.920 --> 01:56:34.720] Oh, yes.
[01:56:34.720 --> 01:56:35.600] That's right.
[01:56:35.600 --> 01:56:37.280] A lot of misconceptions, etc.
[01:56:37.760 --> 01:56:39.920] Sometimes deliberate misconceptions.
[01:56:40.800 --> 01:56:45.760] There's also not everybody out there is a fair broker or an honest player.
[01:56:46.000 --> 01:56:50.800] So we're dealing with a lot of deliberate nonsense.
[01:56:50.800 --> 01:56:51.280] All right.
[01:56:51.280 --> 01:56:53.360] Well, thank you all for joining me this week.
[01:56:53.360 --> 01:56:54.000] Thanks for having me.
[01:56:54.560 --> 01:56:58.640] And until next week, this is your Skeptic's Guide to the Universe.
[01:57:00.640 --> 01:57:07.280] Skeptic's Guide to the Universe is produced by SGU Productions, dedicated to promoting science and critical thinking.
[01:57:07.280 --> 01:57:11.920] For more information, visit us at the skepticsguide.org.
[01:57:11.920 --> 01:57:15.840] Send your questions to info at the skepticsguide.org.
[01:57:15.840 --> 01:57:26.560] And if you would like to support the show and all the work that we do, go to patreon.com/slash skepticsguide and consider becoming a patron and becoming part of the SGU community.
[01:57:26.560 --> 01:57:29.760] Our listeners and supporters are what make SGU possible.
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