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[00:00:03.280 --> 00:00:10.160] When we think of sea monsters, we think of the mighty kraken pulling a ship down with its tentacles, or H.P.
[00:00:10.160 --> 00:00:12.560] Lovecraft, or Loch Ness.
[00:00:12.560 --> 00:00:16.320] But how often do we think of the real sea monsters?
[00:00:16.640 --> 00:00:20.320] What are the mightiest predators of the depths today?
[00:00:20.320 --> 00:00:25.040] And how do they compare with those from hundreds of millions of years ago?
[00:00:25.040 --> 00:00:29.440] Just what are the worst, real sea monsters?
[00:00:29.760 --> 00:00:33.760] We're going to find out today on Skeptoid.
[00:00:40.080 --> 00:00:44.880] Join us for an exclusive three-day exploration of historic Death Valley.
[00:00:44.880 --> 00:00:52.240] From October 21st to 24th, we'll take you from Las Vegas deep into the heart of this rugged, otherworldly landscape.
[00:00:52.240 --> 00:00:56.080] All transportation, lodging, and meals are included.
[00:00:56.080 --> 00:00:58.800] Your guides will be Skeptoids Brian Dunning.
[00:00:58.800 --> 00:01:00.560] Hey, I know that guy, he's me.
[00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:03.840] And Death Valley expert geologist Andrew Dunning.
[00:01:03.840 --> 00:01:12.720] Together, they'll lead you to world-famous sites like Badwater Basin and the Artist's Palette, plus hidden gems that you won't find in any guidebook.
[00:01:12.720 --> 00:01:17.200] This year's trip features all new destinations with minimal overlap from last year.
[00:01:17.200 --> 00:01:22.400] And here's a bonus: Skepticamp Las Vegas begins the same evening we return to Las Vegas.
[00:01:22.400 --> 00:01:27.600] Make it a two-for-one trip and stick around to hear me talk about my visit to Area 51.
[00:01:27.600 --> 00:01:31.120] Details at skeptoid.com/slash events.
[00:01:31.120 --> 00:01:32.960] Spots are very limited.
[00:01:32.960 --> 00:01:34.400] Secure yours today.
[00:01:34.400 --> 00:01:42.400] Email help at skeptoid.com with questions and join the conversation with fellow adventurers at skeptoid.com slash discord.
[00:01:42.400 --> 00:01:44.480] Death Valley is calling.
[00:01:44.480 --> 00:01:46.960] Are you ready to answer?
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[00:02:17.480 --> 00:02:20.120] That's odoo.com.
[00:02:20.440 --> 00:02:22.120] You're listening to Skeptoid.
[00:02:22.120 --> 00:02:25.720] I'm Brian Dunning from skeptoid.com.
[00:02:25.720 --> 00:02:29.480] Real Sea Monsters.
[00:02:29.480 --> 00:02:40.840] Welcome to the show that separates fact from fiction, science from pseudoscience, real history from fake history, and helps us all make better life decisions by knowing what's real and what's not.
[00:02:40.840 --> 00:02:47.720] I've always believed that somewhere deep down, each of us harbors some kind of fear of the water.
[00:02:47.720 --> 00:02:56.600] When I was a small boy, I lived about the first 12 years of my life on the beachfront in Southern California and was in the ocean almost every day.
[00:02:56.600 --> 00:03:00.440] But I'll admit to you right now, I was never completely comfortable.
[00:03:00.440 --> 00:03:04.280] And then the movie Jaws came out and made me even less so.
[00:03:04.280 --> 00:03:11.160] Then several times I got tangled up in a big bunch of kelp and couldn't get out as the waves washed me back and forth.
[00:03:11.160 --> 00:03:17.960] Finally, the last time I was ever in the water, I was grown with a family and went out just to duck my head underwater.
[00:03:17.960 --> 00:03:23.320] The next thing I knew, I was caught in a rip, couldn't touch bottom, and was tiring quickly.
[00:03:23.320 --> 00:03:27.000] If I hadn't been rescued by a lifeguard, I very likely could have died.
[00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:30.840] And that's after a lifetime of knowing how to get out of rips.
[00:03:30.840 --> 00:03:41.640] So, now at my advanced age and decrepitude, I am satisfied with the time I have already spent in the ocean and do not feel compelled to spend any more.
[00:03:41.640 --> 00:03:58.160] Thus, I can now, with emotional safety, talk about the real sea monsters that actually do exist, and that secretly tormented me for all the decades you've been listening to me here, and for those that came before.
[00:03:58.160 --> 00:04:02.800] What are the real sea monsters that dwell in those black depths?
[00:04:02.800 --> 00:04:08.080] We know about the great white sharks, various jellyfish, and then the unknown.
[00:04:08.080 --> 00:04:11.600] What are the fish we don't personally happen to know about?
[00:04:11.600 --> 00:04:13.680] What else is down there?
[00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:23.360] But the real mind warp comes when we think of what might have been down there 100, 200, 650 million years ago.
[00:04:23.360 --> 00:04:29.200] What are the very worst of the real sea monsters from the entire history of Earth?
[00:04:29.200 --> 00:04:34.240] Today we're going to point the skeptical eye at the fossil record and find out.
[00:04:35.200 --> 00:04:40.640] To get started, let's draw from pop culture from the Jurassic Park film franchise.
[00:04:40.640 --> 00:04:53.040] Beginning with Jurassic World, they had a SeaWorld-type aquatic show where the highlight was an enormous reptilian monster the size of an airliner which sprung up out of the water to grab its food.
[00:04:53.040 --> 00:04:56.480] It was far larger than anyone had ever imagined.
[00:04:56.480 --> 00:04:59.440] Was that something that really existed?
[00:05:02.640 --> 00:05:04.720] Mosasaurs.
[00:05:06.320 --> 00:05:15.920] Well, I hate to disappoint, but this is a case where the filmmakers might have taken some artistic license, as they did in all the Jurassic Park films.
[00:05:15.920 --> 00:05:20.080] The typical size scaling of creatures in the films was about two to one.
[00:05:20.080 --> 00:05:22.400] They were twice their actual size.
[00:05:22.400 --> 00:05:26.160] But they went further with Mosasaurus Hoffmani.
[00:05:26.160 --> 00:05:35.560] They originally had it at 70 feet long, but Spielberg liked it so much he had them stretch it to 120 feet long, 37 meters.
[00:05:35.560 --> 00:05:42.040] So the movie version was three times the size dimensionally, 27 times the actual weight.
[00:05:42.040 --> 00:05:52.520] The real Mosasaurus, the very largest of the clade, was 12 meters, 39 feet long, a far cry from the movie depiction.
[00:05:53.160 --> 00:05:57.240] Now, bear with me for a moment for a disclaimer, if you would.
[00:05:57.560 --> 00:06:11.480] All the measurements given of extinct creatures known from the fossil record have many, many size estimates given, as various paleontologists found various fossil individuals and fit them into the context of other species.
[00:06:11.480 --> 00:06:18.600] Often I found the earliest estimates were the biggest, which gradually came down as cooler heads prevailed over the decades.
[00:06:18.600 --> 00:06:24.360] You can quarrel with every measurement I give today because it's easy to find different ones.
[00:06:24.360 --> 00:06:29.720] I had to go to a lot of trouble to find the more recent and widely accepted numbers.
[00:06:29.720 --> 00:06:35.400] So don't email to tell me I got the length or weight wrong for some random prehistoric beast.
[00:06:38.280 --> 00:06:51.560] Ichthyosaurus While Mosasaurus looked something like a huge shark with four lobes instead of fins, Ichthyotitan severinsis was more adapted for aquatic life.
[00:06:51.560 --> 00:06:56.840] Its four lobes had evolved completely into fins, and it had a bit of a dorsal fin.
[00:06:56.840 --> 00:07:09.640] It was also the true king of the seas in its day, the largest ichthyosaur of all time, measuring 26 meters or 85 feet long, the size of a whale.
[00:07:12.520 --> 00:07:21.440] Plesiosaurs Plesiosaurs were the best adapted of the bunch for swimming, with much longer fins.
[00:07:21.760 --> 00:07:30.480] One you may have seen from the series Walking with Dinosaurs, Leoplurodon ferrox, had its size greatly exaggerated for the show.
[00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:43.920] It was a short-necked plesiosaur, like most of them, and like the biggest one ever, Monchirosaurus boycensis, which measured 11 meters, 36 feet, and weighed 14 tons.
[00:07:45.200 --> 00:07:50.240] Several plesiosaurs were in the same size range, but probably just a bit smaller.
[00:07:50.240 --> 00:08:02.720] The one you're probably most familiar with, the long-necked Elasmosaurus, was just a touch shorter at 10.3 meters, or 34 feet, but weighed much less because it was far more slender.
[00:08:03.680 --> 00:08:14.080] That takes us up to the types of real sea monsters that you might still face today, as the rest of these denizens of the deep have surviving descendants.
[00:08:16.960 --> 00:08:20.400] Snakes.
[00:08:20.400 --> 00:08:27.200] The sea monsters of snakes are only semi-aquatic, meaning they spend a lot of their time in the water, but not all of it.
[00:08:27.200 --> 00:08:39.280] Heaven help you if you run into the biggest species today, the green anaconda, six meters, twenty feet long, and weighing up to 200 kilograms, 440 pounds.
[00:08:39.280 --> 00:08:58.880] Terrifying as the anaconda might be, it's just a mealworm compared to the most fearsome of all time, the extinct Titanoboa, which was more than twice as long at 14.3 meters or 47 feet, and nearly four times its weight at 730 kilograms.
[00:08:58.880 --> 00:09:02.120] That's 1,000 pounds.
[00:09:05.320 --> 00:09:24.040] Turtles Today's leatherback sea turtle is still one of the biggest turtles of all time, three meters or ten feet across and weighing nearly a ton at 961 kilograms, 2,119 pounds.
[00:09:24.040 --> 00:09:30.440] However, the real champion is now extinct and was nearly twice the size.
[00:09:30.440 --> 00:09:37.880] Arculon measured 5 meters, 16 feet, and weighed 2.2 tons.
[00:09:38.520 --> 00:09:50.200] And if you're thinking that turtles aren't all that scary and wouldn't really be sea monsters, well, know that Arcalon was a carnivore with a powerful jaw and a great hooked beak.
[00:09:50.200 --> 00:09:54.120] Each front flipper alone was larger than a man.
[00:09:57.320 --> 00:10:05.960] Crocodiles They're our last category of reptiles and are probably among the most fearsome.
[00:10:05.960 --> 00:10:19.640] The biggest ever extant crocodile with a size proven by a modern measurement is the Orinoco crocodile, the largest individual of which measured 6.78 meters, 22.2 feet.
[00:10:19.640 --> 00:10:35.880] Though he was nothing compared to his big brother from the late Cretaceous period, Deinosuchus was 10 meters, 33 feet long, half again the length of a modern crocodile, and is estimated to have weighed five tons.
[00:10:35.880 --> 00:10:45.440] But he was also extra scary in that fossil remains have shown that Deinosuchus often feasted on dinosaurs his own size.
[00:10:44.840 --> 00:10:50.000] He'd sneak up on the shore, grab them, and death roll them into the water.
[00:10:54.400 --> 00:10:57.440] Fall is here, and Skeptoid has you covered.
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[00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:46.800] Cetaceans luckily, the very biggest sea monster of all time is also the least likely to hurt you.
[00:11:46.800 --> 00:11:58.960] Today's blue whale remains the all-time king of the seas at 33 meters, 108 feet long, and weighing a staggering 260 tons.
[00:11:59.920 --> 00:12:15.280] If we include extinct cetaceans looking for the biggest, the most history can do is one that weighed a sixth of that, 40 tons, Parasitus colossus, and stretched only 16 meters, 52 feet.
[00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:24.320] There's another one you'll read much larger measurements for, but its most likely dimensions have been revised downward many times over the decades.
[00:12:25.280 --> 00:12:37.320] There was one prehistoric whale longer than Parasitis, Basilosaurus cetoides, which was 20 meters, 66 feet long, only two-thirds the length of the blue whale.
[00:12:37.640 --> 00:12:45.720] But it was also much more slender than Parasitis, so it weighed only 15 tons compared to Paracetus's 40.
[00:12:49.560 --> 00:12:59.960] Fish Let us not forget that the most notorious sea monsters in the sea, man-eating sharks, are fish.
[00:12:59.960 --> 00:13:07.240] The greatest of these, still living, is the whale shark, which maxes out at 19 meters, 62 feet.
[00:13:07.560 --> 00:13:13.800] That's immense, but luckily it's friendly and only eats tiny stuff like plankton and krill.
[00:13:13.800 --> 00:13:18.920] But as far as fish go, ancient history outdid today's worst sea monsters.
[00:13:18.920 --> 00:13:31.960] The infamous megalodon, once classified as Carceridon, but today reclassified as Ototus megalodon, was probably just a little bit bigger, as well as having been a predator.
[00:13:31.960 --> 00:13:42.040] Much uncertainty surrounds the size of Megalodon, but I'd say the most accepted max size was 20.3 meters, or 67 feet.
[00:13:42.040 --> 00:13:45.880] That's still two-thirds the length of a blue whale.
[00:13:46.520 --> 00:14:01.000] Among the most interesting things about the megalodon is that in recent years, nursery sites have been discovered, where fossil remains fall mainly into two groups: full adult size and tiny baby shark size.
[00:14:01.000 --> 00:14:10.680] Several of these nursery sites have been found in Spain, the home of quince paste.
[00:14:10.680 --> 00:14:14.200] Crustaceans.
[00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:23.360] While it may at first seem comforting to leave the world of giant sharks and retreat to the realm of little friendly crustaceans, they're not all so friendly.
[00:14:23.360 --> 00:14:37.440] Go deep into the waters off Japan, and you're likely to encounter the most frightening of all underwater sites, the Japanese spider crab, whose long stick-like legs stretch 3.7 meters, 12 feet across.
[00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:44.400] It's a decopod with eight spidery legs plus two long claws, longer than any of the legs.
[00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:53.280] But it is a fine, slender sea monster, yet the biggest can still weigh in at 19 kilograms, 42 pounds.
[00:14:53.280 --> 00:14:57.120] So it's a tiny bit shy of holding the record for all-out bulk.
[00:14:57.120 --> 00:15:07.280] The heaviest extant crustacean is the American lobster, the biggest on record having weighed in at 20 kilograms, 44 pounds.
[00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:16.000] But today's biggest crustaceans do not hold a candle to the underwater horrors of our distant past.
[00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:32.960] Jackalopterus, not a true crustacean, but still an arthropod, looked roughly like a lobster, that biggest American lobster having stretched to 64 centimeters, or 25 inches, but four times longer and about 64 times the bulk.
[00:15:32.960 --> 00:15:41.040] Fossils have been found at 2.5 meters or 8 feet long, plus one more meter with the claws extended.
[00:15:41.040 --> 00:15:47.280] And while the American lobster is a bottom feeder, Jacalopterus was the apex predator.
[00:15:47.280 --> 00:15:48.720] Watch out.
[00:15:52.160 --> 00:15:54.240] Cephalopods.
[00:15:55.520 --> 00:16:02.360] I'm going to give you a bit of a break from ancient ancestors of today's biggest monsters being too scary to think about.
[00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:10.680] When it comes to cephalopods, squid, octopus, etc., history cannot match today's most frightening.
[00:16:11.640 --> 00:16:22.360] The one best classified as a real sea monster is the giant Pacific octopus, with a maximum measured leg span of 9.8 meters or 32 feet.
[00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:26.440] If you're in the water and that thing wants to eat you, you lose.
[00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:28.120] End of story.
[00:16:28.760 --> 00:16:36.200] You're less likely to have a problem with the two largest squid that have ever existed, both of which patrol our oceans today.
[00:16:36.520 --> 00:16:56.280] One is the long and slender giant squid, Archituthus, with a mantle 2.4 meters or 7.9 feet long, and a total length with tentacles of 15 meters or 49 feet, but with a weight of merely 275 kilograms, 606 pounds.
[00:16:56.600 --> 00:17:20.280] Its big brother, the colossal squid, has shorter tentacles but is nearly twice the weight, with a larger and more robust mantle of 3 meters, 9.8 feet, and a total length with tentacles of 10 meters, 33 feet, but a massive weight of half a ton, 495 kilograms, or 1,091 pounds.
[00:17:21.240 --> 00:17:29.560] We can all be proud, and a little bit terrified, that the fossil record shows no sea monsters worse than today's.
[00:17:32.760 --> 00:17:36.280] Invertebrates.
[00:17:36.280 --> 00:17:40.360] This theme is repeated with invertebrates such as the sea jelly.
[00:17:40.360 --> 00:17:56.000] The most enormous one ever known is found in our oceans today, the lion's mane jellyfish with a bell up to 2.1 meters or 7 feet across, and tentacles that have been measured at 37 meters, 120 feet.
[00:17:56.000 --> 00:18:01.200] Sea jellies don't fossilize all that well, so we have only a scant record.
[00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:14.640] The biggest found so far is Bergesomedusa phasmiformis, cool name, with a modest bell of only 20 centimeters or 8 inches, and no record of tentacle length.
[00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:20.880] Colony blobs.
[00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:25.760] We've saved the weirdest and freakiest real sea monsters for last.
[00:18:25.760 --> 00:18:32.480] Great gelatinous blobs that are colonies of tiny gelatinous blobs called zooids.
[00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:35.760] They form together generally into great big tubes.
[00:18:35.760 --> 00:18:40.640] The longest of these is the giant siphonophore, priadubia.
[00:18:40.640 --> 00:18:47.520] Imagine a sparkling bioluminescent rope more than 40 meters or 131 feet long.
[00:18:47.840 --> 00:18:57.520] Siphonophore zooids come in a variety, each performing specialized functions, and these ropes are able to move through the sea with surprising agility.
[00:18:57.840 --> 00:19:06.160] Come to the online transcript for this episode at skeptoid.com to see a cool video of one surprising an ROV team.
[00:19:07.120 --> 00:19:11.040] The giant pyrosome is probably even weirder.
[00:19:11.040 --> 00:19:15.760] All the zooids are the same, taking in water at one end and spitting it out the other.
[00:19:15.760 --> 00:19:30.920] They form together into a great big tube that comes to a closed point at one end, and they're excreting water into the tube, which turns the whole thing into a big glowing blue bioluminescent jet, moving lazily around.
[00:19:31.240 --> 00:19:43.880] These have been found stretching 18 meters or 60 feet, with the open end of the tube gaping up to 2 meters, 6.5 feet, if anyone wants to be brave enough to swim inside.
[00:19:44.200 --> 00:19:51.000] You can watch some divers having an encounter with one on the transcript page for this episode.
[00:19:51.320 --> 00:19:58.920] And so, with that fresh horror in mind, I am now going to recline and enjoy not being in the ocean.
[00:19:58.920 --> 00:20:09.080] But for all of you who do choose to indulge, I present you the oceans on a silver platter, complete with all of their real sea monsters.
[00:20:10.360 --> 00:20:16.760] We continue with what limits the size of aquatic animals in the ad-free and extended premium feed.
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[00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:39.960] A great big skeptoid shout-out to our premium supporters, including Jeff Dahlke, Stephen Sanderson, Jamie Revell, and Pete Tuckerman from beautiful Canton, North Carolina.
[00:20:40.280 --> 00:20:42.360] Where can you come see me in person?
[00:20:42.360 --> 00:20:46.600] Well, I'll be on our Skeptoid Adventures trip to the Bermuda Triangle in July.
[00:20:46.600 --> 00:20:51.800] Then, after that, I'll be speaking at the Arkansas Governor's School at Arkansas Tech.
[00:20:51.800 --> 00:20:58.520] And I'm always hosting our Super Science Trivia at our monthly Nerd Night here in Bend, Oregon.
[00:20:58.520 --> 00:21:01.240] Did you know you can have Skeptoid come to you?
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[00:21:13.800 --> 00:21:19.360] For more information, come to skeptoid.com and click on Live Shows.
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[00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:56.160] I'm Brian Dunning from Skeptoid.com.
[00:21:59.280 --> 00:22:01.280] From PRX.
Prompt 2: Key Takeaways
Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.
Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...".
Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive.
IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}
Prompt 3: Segments
Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.
For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion
IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.
Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
"segments": [
{
"segment_title": "Topic Discussion",
"timestamp": "01:15:30",
"key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
"segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
}
]
}
Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.
Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:
Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)
DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names
IMPORTANT:
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.
Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
"media_mentions": [
{
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Full Transcript
[00:00:03.280 --> 00:00:10.160] When we think of sea monsters, we think of the mighty kraken pulling a ship down with its tentacles, or H.P.
[00:00:10.160 --> 00:00:12.560] Lovecraft, or Loch Ness.
[00:00:12.560 --> 00:00:16.320] But how often do we think of the real sea monsters?
[00:00:16.640 --> 00:00:20.320] What are the mightiest predators of the depths today?
[00:00:20.320 --> 00:00:25.040] And how do they compare with those from hundreds of millions of years ago?
[00:00:25.040 --> 00:00:29.440] Just what are the worst, real sea monsters?
[00:00:29.760 --> 00:00:33.760] We're going to find out today on Skeptoid.
[00:00:40.080 --> 00:00:44.880] Join us for an exclusive three-day exploration of historic Death Valley.
[00:00:44.880 --> 00:00:52.240] From October 21st to 24th, we'll take you from Las Vegas deep into the heart of this rugged, otherworldly landscape.
[00:00:52.240 --> 00:00:56.080] All transportation, lodging, and meals are included.
[00:00:56.080 --> 00:00:58.800] Your guides will be Skeptoids Brian Dunning.
[00:00:58.800 --> 00:01:00.560] Hey, I know that guy, he's me.
[00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:03.840] And Death Valley expert geologist Andrew Dunning.
[00:01:03.840 --> 00:01:12.720] Together, they'll lead you to world-famous sites like Badwater Basin and the Artist's Palette, plus hidden gems that you won't find in any guidebook.
[00:01:12.720 --> 00:01:17.200] This year's trip features all new destinations with minimal overlap from last year.
[00:01:17.200 --> 00:01:22.400] And here's a bonus: Skepticamp Las Vegas begins the same evening we return to Las Vegas.
[00:01:22.400 --> 00:01:27.600] Make it a two-for-one trip and stick around to hear me talk about my visit to Area 51.
[00:01:27.600 --> 00:01:31.120] Details at skeptoid.com/slash events.
[00:01:31.120 --> 00:01:32.960] Spots are very limited.
[00:01:32.960 --> 00:01:34.400] Secure yours today.
[00:01:34.400 --> 00:01:42.400] Email help at skeptoid.com with questions and join the conversation with fellow adventurers at skeptoid.com slash discord.
[00:01:42.400 --> 00:01:44.480] Death Valley is calling.
[00:01:44.480 --> 00:01:46.960] Are you ready to answer?
[00:01:50.800 --> 00:01:52.800] This show is supported by Odoo.
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[00:02:17.480 --> 00:02:20.120] That's odoo.com.
[00:02:20.440 --> 00:02:22.120] You're listening to Skeptoid.
[00:02:22.120 --> 00:02:25.720] I'm Brian Dunning from skeptoid.com.
[00:02:25.720 --> 00:02:29.480] Real Sea Monsters.
[00:02:29.480 --> 00:02:40.840] Welcome to the show that separates fact from fiction, science from pseudoscience, real history from fake history, and helps us all make better life decisions by knowing what's real and what's not.
[00:02:40.840 --> 00:02:47.720] I've always believed that somewhere deep down, each of us harbors some kind of fear of the water.
[00:02:47.720 --> 00:02:56.600] When I was a small boy, I lived about the first 12 years of my life on the beachfront in Southern California and was in the ocean almost every day.
[00:02:56.600 --> 00:03:00.440] But I'll admit to you right now, I was never completely comfortable.
[00:03:00.440 --> 00:03:04.280] And then the movie Jaws came out and made me even less so.
[00:03:04.280 --> 00:03:11.160] Then several times I got tangled up in a big bunch of kelp and couldn't get out as the waves washed me back and forth.
[00:03:11.160 --> 00:03:17.960] Finally, the last time I was ever in the water, I was grown with a family and went out just to duck my head underwater.
[00:03:17.960 --> 00:03:23.320] The next thing I knew, I was caught in a rip, couldn't touch bottom, and was tiring quickly.
[00:03:23.320 --> 00:03:27.000] If I hadn't been rescued by a lifeguard, I very likely could have died.
[00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:30.840] And that's after a lifetime of knowing how to get out of rips.
[00:03:30.840 --> 00:03:41.640] So, now at my advanced age and decrepitude, I am satisfied with the time I have already spent in the ocean and do not feel compelled to spend any more.
[00:03:41.640 --> 00:03:58.160] Thus, I can now, with emotional safety, talk about the real sea monsters that actually do exist, and that secretly tormented me for all the decades you've been listening to me here, and for those that came before.
[00:03:58.160 --> 00:04:02.800] What are the real sea monsters that dwell in those black depths?
[00:04:02.800 --> 00:04:08.080] We know about the great white sharks, various jellyfish, and then the unknown.
[00:04:08.080 --> 00:04:11.600] What are the fish we don't personally happen to know about?
[00:04:11.600 --> 00:04:13.680] What else is down there?
[00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:23.360] But the real mind warp comes when we think of what might have been down there 100, 200, 650 million years ago.
[00:04:23.360 --> 00:04:29.200] What are the very worst of the real sea monsters from the entire history of Earth?
[00:04:29.200 --> 00:04:34.240] Today we're going to point the skeptical eye at the fossil record and find out.
[00:04:35.200 --> 00:04:40.640] To get started, let's draw from pop culture from the Jurassic Park film franchise.
[00:04:40.640 --> 00:04:53.040] Beginning with Jurassic World, they had a SeaWorld-type aquatic show where the highlight was an enormous reptilian monster the size of an airliner which sprung up out of the water to grab its food.
[00:04:53.040 --> 00:04:56.480] It was far larger than anyone had ever imagined.
[00:04:56.480 --> 00:04:59.440] Was that something that really existed?
[00:05:02.640 --> 00:05:04.720] Mosasaurs.
[00:05:06.320 --> 00:05:15.920] Well, I hate to disappoint, but this is a case where the filmmakers might have taken some artistic license, as they did in all the Jurassic Park films.
[00:05:15.920 --> 00:05:20.080] The typical size scaling of creatures in the films was about two to one.
[00:05:20.080 --> 00:05:22.400] They were twice their actual size.
[00:05:22.400 --> 00:05:26.160] But they went further with Mosasaurus Hoffmani.
[00:05:26.160 --> 00:05:35.560] They originally had it at 70 feet long, but Spielberg liked it so much he had them stretch it to 120 feet long, 37 meters.
[00:05:35.560 --> 00:05:42.040] So the movie version was three times the size dimensionally, 27 times the actual weight.
[00:05:42.040 --> 00:05:52.520] The real Mosasaurus, the very largest of the clade, was 12 meters, 39 feet long, a far cry from the movie depiction.
[00:05:53.160 --> 00:05:57.240] Now, bear with me for a moment for a disclaimer, if you would.
[00:05:57.560 --> 00:06:11.480] All the measurements given of extinct creatures known from the fossil record have many, many size estimates given, as various paleontologists found various fossil individuals and fit them into the context of other species.
[00:06:11.480 --> 00:06:18.600] Often I found the earliest estimates were the biggest, which gradually came down as cooler heads prevailed over the decades.
[00:06:18.600 --> 00:06:24.360] You can quarrel with every measurement I give today because it's easy to find different ones.
[00:06:24.360 --> 00:06:29.720] I had to go to a lot of trouble to find the more recent and widely accepted numbers.
[00:06:29.720 --> 00:06:35.400] So don't email to tell me I got the length or weight wrong for some random prehistoric beast.
[00:06:38.280 --> 00:06:51.560] Ichthyosaurus While Mosasaurus looked something like a huge shark with four lobes instead of fins, Ichthyotitan severinsis was more adapted for aquatic life.
[00:06:51.560 --> 00:06:56.840] Its four lobes had evolved completely into fins, and it had a bit of a dorsal fin.
[00:06:56.840 --> 00:07:09.640] It was also the true king of the seas in its day, the largest ichthyosaur of all time, measuring 26 meters or 85 feet long, the size of a whale.
[00:07:12.520 --> 00:07:21.440] Plesiosaurs Plesiosaurs were the best adapted of the bunch for swimming, with much longer fins.
[00:07:21.760 --> 00:07:30.480] One you may have seen from the series Walking with Dinosaurs, Leoplurodon ferrox, had its size greatly exaggerated for the show.
[00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:43.920] It was a short-necked plesiosaur, like most of them, and like the biggest one ever, Monchirosaurus boycensis, which measured 11 meters, 36 feet, and weighed 14 tons.
[00:07:45.200 --> 00:07:50.240] Several plesiosaurs were in the same size range, but probably just a bit smaller.
[00:07:50.240 --> 00:08:02.720] The one you're probably most familiar with, the long-necked Elasmosaurus, was just a touch shorter at 10.3 meters, or 34 feet, but weighed much less because it was far more slender.
[00:08:03.680 --> 00:08:14.080] That takes us up to the types of real sea monsters that you might still face today, as the rest of these denizens of the deep have surviving descendants.
[00:08:16.960 --> 00:08:20.400] Snakes.
[00:08:20.400 --> 00:08:27.200] The sea monsters of snakes are only semi-aquatic, meaning they spend a lot of their time in the water, but not all of it.
[00:08:27.200 --> 00:08:39.280] Heaven help you if you run into the biggest species today, the green anaconda, six meters, twenty feet long, and weighing up to 200 kilograms, 440 pounds.
[00:08:39.280 --> 00:08:58.880] Terrifying as the anaconda might be, it's just a mealworm compared to the most fearsome of all time, the extinct Titanoboa, which was more than twice as long at 14.3 meters or 47 feet, and nearly four times its weight at 730 kilograms.
[00:08:58.880 --> 00:09:02.120] That's 1,000 pounds.
[00:09:05.320 --> 00:09:24.040] Turtles Today's leatherback sea turtle is still one of the biggest turtles of all time, three meters or ten feet across and weighing nearly a ton at 961 kilograms, 2,119 pounds.
[00:09:24.040 --> 00:09:30.440] However, the real champion is now extinct and was nearly twice the size.
[00:09:30.440 --> 00:09:37.880] Arculon measured 5 meters, 16 feet, and weighed 2.2 tons.
[00:09:38.520 --> 00:09:50.200] And if you're thinking that turtles aren't all that scary and wouldn't really be sea monsters, well, know that Arcalon was a carnivore with a powerful jaw and a great hooked beak.
[00:09:50.200 --> 00:09:54.120] Each front flipper alone was larger than a man.
[00:09:57.320 --> 00:10:05.960] Crocodiles They're our last category of reptiles and are probably among the most fearsome.
[00:10:05.960 --> 00:10:19.640] The biggest ever extant crocodile with a size proven by a modern measurement is the Orinoco crocodile, the largest individual of which measured 6.78 meters, 22.2 feet.
[00:10:19.640 --> 00:10:35.880] Though he was nothing compared to his big brother from the late Cretaceous period, Deinosuchus was 10 meters, 33 feet long, half again the length of a modern crocodile, and is estimated to have weighed five tons.
[00:10:35.880 --> 00:10:45.440] But he was also extra scary in that fossil remains have shown that Deinosuchus often feasted on dinosaurs his own size.
[00:10:44.840 --> 00:10:50.000] He'd sneak up on the shore, grab them, and death roll them into the water.
[00:10:54.400 --> 00:10:57.440] Fall is here, and Skeptoid has you covered.
[00:10:57.440 --> 00:11:06.080] Literally, our back to school sale is happening all September long, with 20% off everything in the Skeptoid store.
[00:11:06.080 --> 00:11:16.320] Grab a cozy hoodie for those chilly mornings, sip your favorite roast from a Skeptoid coffee mug, or sport one of our shirts that proudly promotes critical thinking.
[00:11:16.320 --> 00:11:22.880] Just use the code Skeptoid20 at checkout and save 20% on your entire order.
[00:11:22.880 --> 00:11:26.000] Don't wait, this sale ends September 30th.
[00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:31.680] Head to skeptoid.com/slash store and get your gear today.
[00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:46.800] Cetaceans luckily, the very biggest sea monster of all time is also the least likely to hurt you.
[00:11:46.800 --> 00:11:58.960] Today's blue whale remains the all-time king of the seas at 33 meters, 108 feet long, and weighing a staggering 260 tons.
[00:11:59.920 --> 00:12:15.280] If we include extinct cetaceans looking for the biggest, the most history can do is one that weighed a sixth of that, 40 tons, Parasitus colossus, and stretched only 16 meters, 52 feet.
[00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:24.320] There's another one you'll read much larger measurements for, but its most likely dimensions have been revised downward many times over the decades.
[00:12:25.280 --> 00:12:37.320] There was one prehistoric whale longer than Parasitis, Basilosaurus cetoides, which was 20 meters, 66 feet long, only two-thirds the length of the blue whale.
[00:12:37.640 --> 00:12:45.720] But it was also much more slender than Parasitis, so it weighed only 15 tons compared to Paracetus's 40.
[00:12:49.560 --> 00:12:59.960] Fish Let us not forget that the most notorious sea monsters in the sea, man-eating sharks, are fish.
[00:12:59.960 --> 00:13:07.240] The greatest of these, still living, is the whale shark, which maxes out at 19 meters, 62 feet.
[00:13:07.560 --> 00:13:13.800] That's immense, but luckily it's friendly and only eats tiny stuff like plankton and krill.
[00:13:13.800 --> 00:13:18.920] But as far as fish go, ancient history outdid today's worst sea monsters.
[00:13:18.920 --> 00:13:31.960] The infamous megalodon, once classified as Carceridon, but today reclassified as Ototus megalodon, was probably just a little bit bigger, as well as having been a predator.
[00:13:31.960 --> 00:13:42.040] Much uncertainty surrounds the size of Megalodon, but I'd say the most accepted max size was 20.3 meters, or 67 feet.
[00:13:42.040 --> 00:13:45.880] That's still two-thirds the length of a blue whale.
[00:13:46.520 --> 00:14:01.000] Among the most interesting things about the megalodon is that in recent years, nursery sites have been discovered, where fossil remains fall mainly into two groups: full adult size and tiny baby shark size.
[00:14:01.000 --> 00:14:10.680] Several of these nursery sites have been found in Spain, the home of quince paste.
[00:14:10.680 --> 00:14:14.200] Crustaceans.
[00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:23.360] While it may at first seem comforting to leave the world of giant sharks and retreat to the realm of little friendly crustaceans, they're not all so friendly.
[00:14:23.360 --> 00:14:37.440] Go deep into the waters off Japan, and you're likely to encounter the most frightening of all underwater sites, the Japanese spider crab, whose long stick-like legs stretch 3.7 meters, 12 feet across.
[00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:44.400] It's a decopod with eight spidery legs plus two long claws, longer than any of the legs.
[00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:53.280] But it is a fine, slender sea monster, yet the biggest can still weigh in at 19 kilograms, 42 pounds.
[00:14:53.280 --> 00:14:57.120] So it's a tiny bit shy of holding the record for all-out bulk.
[00:14:57.120 --> 00:15:07.280] The heaviest extant crustacean is the American lobster, the biggest on record having weighed in at 20 kilograms, 44 pounds.
[00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:16.000] But today's biggest crustaceans do not hold a candle to the underwater horrors of our distant past.
[00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:32.960] Jackalopterus, not a true crustacean, but still an arthropod, looked roughly like a lobster, that biggest American lobster having stretched to 64 centimeters, or 25 inches, but four times longer and about 64 times the bulk.
[00:15:32.960 --> 00:15:41.040] Fossils have been found at 2.5 meters or 8 feet long, plus one more meter with the claws extended.
[00:15:41.040 --> 00:15:47.280] And while the American lobster is a bottom feeder, Jacalopterus was the apex predator.
[00:15:47.280 --> 00:15:48.720] Watch out.
[00:15:52.160 --> 00:15:54.240] Cephalopods.
[00:15:55.520 --> 00:16:02.360] I'm going to give you a bit of a break from ancient ancestors of today's biggest monsters being too scary to think about.
[00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:10.680] When it comes to cephalopods, squid, octopus, etc., history cannot match today's most frightening.
[00:16:11.640 --> 00:16:22.360] The one best classified as a real sea monster is the giant Pacific octopus, with a maximum measured leg span of 9.8 meters or 32 feet.
[00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:26.440] If you're in the water and that thing wants to eat you, you lose.
[00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:28.120] End of story.
[00:16:28.760 --> 00:16:36.200] You're less likely to have a problem with the two largest squid that have ever existed, both of which patrol our oceans today.
[00:16:36.520 --> 00:16:56.280] One is the long and slender giant squid, Archituthus, with a mantle 2.4 meters or 7.9 feet long, and a total length with tentacles of 15 meters or 49 feet, but with a weight of merely 275 kilograms, 606 pounds.
[00:16:56.600 --> 00:17:20.280] Its big brother, the colossal squid, has shorter tentacles but is nearly twice the weight, with a larger and more robust mantle of 3 meters, 9.8 feet, and a total length with tentacles of 10 meters, 33 feet, but a massive weight of half a ton, 495 kilograms, or 1,091 pounds.
[00:17:21.240 --> 00:17:29.560] We can all be proud, and a little bit terrified, that the fossil record shows no sea monsters worse than today's.
[00:17:32.760 --> 00:17:36.280] Invertebrates.
[00:17:36.280 --> 00:17:40.360] This theme is repeated with invertebrates such as the sea jelly.
[00:17:40.360 --> 00:17:56.000] The most enormous one ever known is found in our oceans today, the lion's mane jellyfish with a bell up to 2.1 meters or 7 feet across, and tentacles that have been measured at 37 meters, 120 feet.
[00:17:56.000 --> 00:18:01.200] Sea jellies don't fossilize all that well, so we have only a scant record.
[00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:14.640] The biggest found so far is Bergesomedusa phasmiformis, cool name, with a modest bell of only 20 centimeters or 8 inches, and no record of tentacle length.
[00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:20.880] Colony blobs.
[00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:25.760] We've saved the weirdest and freakiest real sea monsters for last.
[00:18:25.760 --> 00:18:32.480] Great gelatinous blobs that are colonies of tiny gelatinous blobs called zooids.
[00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:35.760] They form together generally into great big tubes.
[00:18:35.760 --> 00:18:40.640] The longest of these is the giant siphonophore, priadubia.
[00:18:40.640 --> 00:18:47.520] Imagine a sparkling bioluminescent rope more than 40 meters or 131 feet long.
[00:18:47.840 --> 00:18:57.520] Siphonophore zooids come in a variety, each performing specialized functions, and these ropes are able to move through the sea with surprising agility.
[00:18:57.840 --> 00:19:06.160] Come to the online transcript for this episode at skeptoid.com to see a cool video of one surprising an ROV team.
[00:19:07.120 --> 00:19:11.040] The giant pyrosome is probably even weirder.
[00:19:11.040 --> 00:19:15.760] All the zooids are the same, taking in water at one end and spitting it out the other.
[00:19:15.760 --> 00:19:30.920] They form together into a great big tube that comes to a closed point at one end, and they're excreting water into the tube, which turns the whole thing into a big glowing blue bioluminescent jet, moving lazily around.
[00:19:31.240 --> 00:19:43.880] These have been found stretching 18 meters or 60 feet, with the open end of the tube gaping up to 2 meters, 6.5 feet, if anyone wants to be brave enough to swim inside.
[00:19:44.200 --> 00:19:51.000] You can watch some divers having an encounter with one on the transcript page for this episode.
[00:19:51.320 --> 00:19:58.920] And so, with that fresh horror in mind, I am now going to recline and enjoy not being in the ocean.
[00:19:58.920 --> 00:20:09.080] But for all of you who do choose to indulge, I present you the oceans on a silver platter, complete with all of their real sea monsters.
[00:20:10.360 --> 00:20:16.760] We continue with what limits the size of aquatic animals in the ad-free and extended premium feed.
[00:20:16.760 --> 00:20:22.680] To access it, become a supporter at skeptoid.com/slash go premium.
[00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:39.960] A great big skeptoid shout-out to our premium supporters, including Jeff Dahlke, Stephen Sanderson, Jamie Revell, and Pete Tuckerman from beautiful Canton, North Carolina.
[00:20:40.280 --> 00:20:42.360] Where can you come see me in person?
[00:20:42.360 --> 00:20:46.600] Well, I'll be on our Skeptoid Adventures trip to the Bermuda Triangle in July.
[00:20:46.600 --> 00:20:51.800] Then, after that, I'll be speaking at the Arkansas Governor's School at Arkansas Tech.
[00:20:51.800 --> 00:20:58.520] And I'm always hosting our Super Science Trivia at our monthly Nerd Night here in Bend, Oregon.
[00:20:58.520 --> 00:21:01.240] Did you know you can have Skeptoid come to you?
[00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:06.520] I love doing live shows, either at meetup clubs, university groups, and conferences.
[00:21:06.520 --> 00:21:13.800] I can show one of our movies like Science Friction, do a live podcast, or just give one of my popular presentations.
[00:21:13.800 --> 00:21:19.360] For more information, come to skeptoid.com and click on Live Shows.
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