We Can Do Hard Things

Jen Hatmaker: What Are You Pretending Not to Know?

September 23, 2025

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  • Ignoring the truth about one's life, whether in a marriage or other significant area, leads to profound self-erasure and corrosive pain, making it ultimately better to face reality, even if it means loss and disruption. 
  • The courage to acknowledge and speak one's truth, even privately, is a crucial first step in reclaiming agency and initiating change, as words themselves can become the building blocks for the next right action. 
  • True connection and love are only possible when one shows up as their authentic self, embracing complexities and imperfections, rather than attempting to control outcomes or perceptions. 
  • Speaking a truth out loud, even when difficult, is a powerful act that allows for agency and the possibility of change, rather than immediate catastrophe. 
  • Women may sometimes avoid naming their truth or desires for fear of accepting culpability for the outcome, but true freedom comes from owning one's needs without needing external validation or a 'get out of jail free card'. 
  • Admitting what you know you're pretending not to know is often the catalyst for personal growth and moving forward, even if the initial step involves vulnerability and anxiety. 

Segments

The Cost of Pretending
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(00:14:08)
  • Key Takeaway: Pretending not to know the truth about a marriage or life situation leads to self-erasure and corrosive pain, making it ultimately better to face reality, even if it means loss.
  • Summary: Jen Hatmaker discusses the moment she discovered her husband’s affair, reflecting on the initial shock versus the underlying awareness she had suppressed for years, and the profound self-betrayal involved in ignoring her own intuition.
Codependency and Control
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(00:33:09)
  • Key Takeaway: Codependency, defined as the effort to control others’ behavior and perceptions, is a relational killer that stems from a refusal to accept what is and can manifest as ‘human Zamboniing’ or scolding.
  • Summary: Jen Hatmaker and Glennon Doyle explore the concept of codependency, with Jen detailing her own ‘PhD’ in it through managing her husband’s behavior and others’ perceptions of him, and how this pattern created resentment and disconnection in her marriage.
Generational Progress and Freedom
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(00:50:25)
  • Key Takeaway: Younger generations, less encumbered by historical systems of oppression, are leading the way in activism and self-expression, pushing older generations to confront their own complicity and embrace greater freedom.
  • Summary: The conversation shifts to how children, particularly young adults, are now leading their parents in understanding the world and advocating for change, highlighting how they are born into a different context and are unafraid of systems that previously constrained their parents.
Taking Action on Knowing
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(01:03:28)
  • Key Takeaway: When the ‘knowing’ surfaces to an undeniable point, the first steps are to privately tell yourself the truth and then share it with someone who loves you, as speaking the truth begins to dismantle fear and reveal the next right action.
  • Summary: Jen Hatmaker offers advice to listeners who are experiencing undeniable ‘knowing’ about their lives, emphasizing the importance of not waiting for an ’eviction notice’ and the power of verbalizing the truth to oneself and a trusted confidant to reclaim agency.
The Power of Speaking Truth
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(01:07:14)
  • Key Takeaway: Voicing personal truths to others builds worlds and reveals the ’next right thing,’ offering a sense of magic and confirming one’s continued existence.
  • Summary: The conversation explores the transformative power of speaking one’s truth aloud, emphasizing that words are foundational and that admitting what is true about one’s life does not lead to demise but rather to clarity and agency.
Culpability and Freedom in Divorce
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(01:08:45)
  • Key Takeaway: Women may avoid naming their truth in relationships to avoid culpability for the outcome, but true freedom lies in acknowledging their needs without relying on external factors like infidelity as a ‘get out of jail free card’.
  • Summary: This segment delves into the complexities of divorce, particularly for women, discussing how the narrative of being abandoned or wronged can be a way to avoid personal responsibility for wanting something different, and the desire for women to have the freedom to choose their path without such external justifications.
Admitting What We Pretend Not to Know
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(01:13:36)
  • Key Takeaway: The ’next frontier’ in personal growth often arrives after admitting the truth one has been pretending not to know, preventing stagnation in a ‘weird purgatory place’.
  • Summary: The hosts and guest reflect on the core theme of the episode, posing the question of what they are currently pretending not to know, and discussing how acknowledging these hidden truths is crucial for leveling up and moving forward in life.
Work-Life Balance and Overexposure
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(01:16:02)
  • Key Takeaway: A desire to work less and play more, particularly in highly visible public roles, stems from a recognition that excessive attention and constant engagement can be detrimental to well-being and flourishing.
  • Summary: Abby shares her desire to work less and play more, which is validated by Jen and Glennon as a significant truth rather than a trivial one, touching upon the challenges of maintaining a public life, the emotional toll of constant exposure, and the need to protect one’s energy.