Episode 821 | How to Do Founder-Led Marketing (with Jay Clouse)

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• Founders can overcome limiting beliefs about creativity by creating evidence that supports the desired identity, such as committing to a consistent creation schedule.  Copied to clipboard!
• SaaS founders should create content targeted directly at their customer niche, rather than focusing solely on content about the entrepreneurial journey for other founders.  Copied to clipboard!
• Platforms should be categorized as either 'discovery' (algorithm-driven) or 'relationship' (owned media like email/podcasts), with the goal of using discovery platforms to drive traffic to relationship platforms.  Copied to clipboard!

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Sponsor Read: Mercury Banking

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(00:00:00)

• Key Takeaway: Mercury offers a banking solution for entrepreneurs managing multiple business accounts with a clean dashboard and multi-step approval workflows.
• Summary: Mercury is used by the host for various entities, including LLCs, global events platforms, and venture funds. It replaces duct-taping tools together with a unified dashboard for daily banking and large transfers. Getting started is free, requiring no in-person visits or minimum balance.

Introduction to Jay Clouse

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(00:01:07)

• Key Takeaway: Jay Clouse, founder of Creator Science, focuses on educating content creators on achieving specific outcomes through their content.
• Summary: Rob Walling introduces Jay Clouse, who specializes in founder-led marketing through content creation. Creator Science is an educational media company focused on creators who teach their audience a specific transformation. This episode is part one of a two-part conversation.

MicroConf Europe Announcement

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(00:02:21)

• Key Takeaway: MicroConf Europe 2026 in Reykjavik, Iceland, is scheduled for September 21st-23rd and is expected to sell out.
• Summary: The event is scheduled for September 21st through the 23rd in Reykjavik, Iceland. The host notes that past events have sold out, urging listeners to purchase tickets now. Tickets can be secured at microconfeurope.com.

Creator Science Mission

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(00:03:08)

• Key Takeaway: Creator Science helps content creators improve their craft by positioning content creation on a spectrum between entertainment and education.
• Summary: Creator Science is an educational media company helping content creators become better at their craft. Jay Clouse positions content closer to the education side, focusing on creators who help their audience achieve a specific outcome. His audience consists of people who have already achieved that outcome and are now teaching others how to do the same.

Jay Clouse’s Career Transition

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(00:04:06)

• Key Takeaway: Experiencing the intensity of venture-backed startup life and high-pressure Series C environments led Jay Clouse to seek self-employment focused on problems he loved.
• Summary: Clouse co-founded a ticketing company that was acquired for a non-life-changing sum, followed by a product management role at a Series C healthcare company. The pressure in the venture-backed environment was worse than his startup experience, prompting him to leave the traditional path. He transitioned by facilitating mastermind groups and learning the content creation business model, starting in 2017.

Overcoming ‘Not Creative’ Belief

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(00:06:50)

• Key Takeaway: To overcome the limiting belief of ‘I’m not creative,’ one must create evidence to support the opposite identity, often by making an external commitment to a creation habit.
• Summary: A coach helped Clouse realize his narrative that he was not creative. The solution involved creating evidence by committing to writing daily for a year and announcing this publicly via an email newsletter signup link. Building a string of successful days doing the desired activity builds the identity needed for long-term success.

Niche Creator Examples

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(00:11:39)

• Key Takeaway: Successful educational content creation spans extremely specific niches, such as teaching fiddle, optimizing native Apple apps, or training high school defensive line coaches.
• Summary: Examples of ultra-niche creators include teaching fiddle, maximizing Apple applications, pole dancing movement, and training plant-based marathon runners. Often, these creators started by offering one-on-one coaching that became unsustainable due to high demand.

Sponsor Read: Gearheart Product Studio

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(00:13:02)

• Key Takeaway: Gearheart is an AI-powered product studio that builds B2B SaaS apps and AI agents at twice the speed of traditional teams.
• Summary: Gearheart understands startup constraints and has built over 70 products, including SmartSuite, which raised $38M. They offer fractional CTO services or senior developers to accelerate development workflows. Listeners receive the first 20 hours of development free by mentioning the podcast.

Content for Customers vs. Founders

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(00:13:54)

• Key Takeaway: SaaS founders must create content that their actual customers consume, avoiding the trap of only creating content about entrepreneurship for other founders.
• Summary: Founders making software for specific verticals (like gym management) should create content gym owners want, not content for indie hackers. Focusing on the entrepreneurial journey creates a ‘self-licking ice cream cone’ that doesn’t attract the target customer base.

Discovery vs. Relationship Channels

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(00:19:00)

• Key Takeaway: The marketing strategy should leverage discovery platforms (like social media algorithms) to drive users toward owned relationship platforms (email, podcasts) to reduce dependency on volatile algorithms.
• Summary: Platforms are split into discovery (algorithm-based) and relationship (decentralized like email, podcasting, SMS, private communities). The objective is to perform for the algorithm on discovery platforms to acquire subscribers for owned channels. This strategy builds stronger leverage because owned media is less susceptible to platform changes.

Evaluating Founder-Led Marketing Viability

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(00:20:07)

• Key Takeaway: SaaS founders should only pursue founder-led marketing if they have intrinsic energy and enthusiasm for it, as opportunity cost is high otherwise.
• Summary: If a founder is not intrinsically interested in content creation, they should focus on other channels like SEO or ads, as the effort must be deeply ingrained to succeed. Founders must also confirm where their target customers consume content, as platform culture dictates content format effectiveness.

Platform Culture and Native Content

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(00:23:06)

• Key Takeaway: Content must be communicated in a native form for the chosen platform, as assets are not easily portable across different platform cultures (e.g., TikTok vs. LinkedIn video).
• Summary: The culture of each platform separates content effectiveness; what works on TikTok may fail on LinkedIn. The best approach is to consume content on the platform you intend to create on, as this naturally tunes you into its norms and trends. Repurposing content across platforms is generally ineffective without significant native adaptation.

Minimum Viable Audience Strategy

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(00:27:36)

• Key Takeaway: For founders with limited time and aversion to video, partnering with existing micro-influencers in their niche can be a faster shortcut than building a founder-led audience from scratch.
• Summary: Video is competitive, requiring mastery of hooks (visual, spoken, text). A founder with budget might hire an agency to compress the learning cycle for their team rather than doing it themselves. Alternatively, investing time or money into partnerships with established creators in the niche can provide positive exposure and data on audience receptivity.

Founder-Involved vs. Founder-Led

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(00:31:41)

• Key Takeaway: Founder-involved marketing allows a company to use internal staff as the primary face while the founder appears periodically to test receptivity and gauge personal enjoyment.
• Summary: Oren John suggests founder-involved marketing where someone else in the company is the primary content face, and the founder shows up occasionally. Experimenting with this approach provides data on how the founder’s presence is received by the audience. The ultimate metric for continuing is whether the founder dreads or looks forward to the content creation sessions.