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[00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:03.440] This podcast is hosted by Transistor.fm.
[00:00:17.600 --> 00:00:19.840] Hey everyone, welcome to Build Your SAS.
[00:00:19.840 --> 00:00:24.080] This is the behind the scenes story of building a web app in 2022.
[00:00:24.080 --> 00:00:26.400] I'm John Bruda, a software engineer.
[00:00:26.400 --> 00:00:27.120] I'm Helen.
[00:00:27.120 --> 00:00:28.880] I'm in charge of customer success.
[00:00:28.880 --> 00:00:31.040] I'm Jason, and I'm a software engineer.
[00:00:31.040 --> 00:00:32.320] And I'm Justin Jackson.
[00:00:32.320 --> 00:00:34.400] I do product and marketing.
[00:00:34.400 --> 00:00:47.440] Follow along as we build transistor.fm second episode with all of us together.
[00:00:47.440 --> 00:00:48.080] All right.
[00:00:48.640 --> 00:00:49.920] Getting the team back.
[00:00:50.240 --> 00:00:53.360] Got the whole team on the call.
[00:00:53.360 --> 00:00:59.840] And we just got back from our first ever team retreat in Montreal.
[00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:03.680] We were there but a week ago.
[00:01:04.320 --> 00:01:05.040] Right?
[00:01:05.040 --> 00:01:06.560] Yeah, it was a week ago.
[00:01:06.560 --> 00:01:09.440] Yeah, we all came back a week ago or so.
[00:01:09.760 --> 00:01:13.520] So we're going to talk a little bit about remote team retreats.
[00:01:13.520 --> 00:01:18.800] We're going to talk about what we learned, our advice for other teams.
[00:01:18.960 --> 00:01:23.360] But maybe let's start with everybody's highlight, or just one highlight.
[00:01:23.360 --> 00:01:29.760] It doesn't have to be your absolute top, but who has a highlight they want to share to start?
[00:01:30.400 --> 00:01:33.440] I would say, I was just trying to think of one a little bit ago.
[00:01:33.600 --> 00:01:34.880] I really enjoyed the hockey game.
[00:01:34.880 --> 00:01:37.680] I don't watch sports at all.
[00:01:38.640 --> 00:01:42.160] So that was like a fun thing for me, especially hockey.
[00:01:42.160 --> 00:01:54.480] But it was like a whole, like A, it was hockey, B, it was in Canada, and then C, everybody speaks French, and like the national anthem was like in French first.
[00:01:55.040 --> 00:01:58.160] It was just like a completely different vibe and very fun experience.
[00:01:58.480 --> 00:02:00.280] Not to mention the free food.
[00:01:59.440 --> 00:02:05.640] Helen organized that one and somehow she got us tickets where all the food was free on that level.
[00:02:06.360 --> 00:02:07.480] How I managed to do that.
[00:02:07.480 --> 00:02:16.600] I'm not quite sure what kind of free tea we were on there, but we managed to get some free pizza and free hot dogs and things.
[00:02:16.600 --> 00:02:17.320] I was good.
[00:02:17.320 --> 00:02:20.360] I thought that dude was trolling us when we came in.
[00:02:20.360 --> 00:02:24.120] He was like, Yo Anglo's food is free.
[00:02:24.120 --> 00:02:27.400] And I was like, is he just making fun of us or something?
[00:02:28.680 --> 00:02:32.040] And then we went to pay for the food and they're like, no, it's all free.
[00:02:32.040 --> 00:02:33.000] We're like, what?
[00:02:33.320 --> 00:02:36.280] It definitely explained the extremely long lines.
[00:02:36.600 --> 00:02:38.360] Yeah, yeah, there was true line.
[00:02:38.360 --> 00:02:39.560] That's pretty good.
[00:02:40.360 --> 00:02:44.680] How is that hockey game different than watching a football game back home, Helen?
[00:02:44.680 --> 00:02:45.880] Very different.
[00:02:46.280 --> 00:02:49.960] Very civilized, very relaxed.
[00:02:49.960 --> 00:02:53.000] Everybody seemed to be in good spirits.
[00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:57.720] It seemed to be like a very family-oriented night out, really.
[00:02:57.720 --> 00:02:58.840] Yeah, it was good to see.
[00:02:58.840 --> 00:02:59.960] I'm glad we kind of did that.
[00:03:00.120 --> 00:03:02.120] I enjoyed the hockey game too.
[00:03:02.520 --> 00:03:07.880] It was kind of a good introduction to Montreal because we did it at the beginning of the week.
[00:03:08.040 --> 00:03:18.920] It was kind of nice to take part in a local event and yeah, see two teams with a long-standing rivalry compete, really.
[00:03:18.920 --> 00:03:20.440] So yeah, it was interesting.
[00:03:20.680 --> 00:03:24.760] What did you think of the fan reaction when Montreal scored their one and only goal?
[00:03:24.760 --> 00:03:32.640] Yeah, you would think they had won the entire game or some major tournament, but no, it was just one goal.
[00:03:32.640 --> 00:03:36.360] Um, and uh, it made it worth the while waiting till the end.
[00:03:36.360 --> 00:03:39.720] People were leaving, and um, they still hadn't scored.
[00:03:39.720 --> 00:03:41.960] So I'm glad that they got one in the end.
[00:03:41.960 --> 00:03:42.360] Yeah.
[00:03:42.360 --> 00:03:44.040] I think the scorer was Toronto.
[00:03:44.040 --> 00:03:53.520] This was a preseason game, uh, so I think both teams were trying out some of their rookies, but uh, I think the final score was 7-1 or something for Toronto.
[00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:55.200] But yeah, that was that was fun.
[00:03:55.200 --> 00:04:05.680] Two classic teams on the ice at the same time, and we had really good seats, drank some cheap Canadian beer, got to watch some Zambonis.
[00:04:05.680 --> 00:04:10.320] Oh, yeah, Jason, the Zambonis, highlight, hey, absolutely the highlight of the game.
[00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:12.000] Always the highlight of hockey.
[00:04:12.880 --> 00:04:16.480] You didn't approve of their way that they cleared the ice.
[00:04:16.480 --> 00:04:17.760] You thought it could be better.
[00:04:17.760 --> 00:04:20.160] They could have optimized it.
[00:04:20.160 --> 00:04:21.520] Most definitely.
[00:04:21.840 --> 00:04:22.720] All right, let's keep going.
[00:04:22.720 --> 00:04:23.840] Helen, do you have a highlight?
[00:04:23.840 --> 00:04:41.440] Yeah, I enjoyed the hockey game, but I think for me, the walks that we took down to the waterfront or the kind of unstructured conversation time that we had where we weren't talking about a particular topic, just kind of like the dinner conversations and things that we had where we had a chance to, yeah, just sort of connect on a personal level.
[00:04:41.440 --> 00:04:45.840] Because I guess the purpose of a retreat is to build that connection, that personal connection.
[00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:53.200] And I think those kind of conversations and just sharing jokes and just talking about the day that we've had.
[00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:56.320] Yeah, it was just a nice way to kind of end each day, really.
[00:04:56.320 --> 00:04:57.600] Have we even said where we went?
[00:04:57.600 --> 00:05:16.480] We went to Montreal and we stayed in Old Montreal, which is this amazing part of Montreal that's right kind of along the water and is beautiful, beautiful architecture, but also we could like walk 30 seconds and we were along the water.
[00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:19.280] And yeah, we had some amazing walks there.
[00:05:19.280 --> 00:05:19.840] Agreed.
[00:05:19.840 --> 00:05:21.760] And the fall colors were out.
[00:05:21.760 --> 00:05:25.440] We had uh warm weather every day for October.
[00:05:25.440 --> 00:05:26.240] It was kind of perfect.
[00:05:26.720 --> 00:05:30.360] Montreal really rolled out the uh the welcome for us.
[00:05:29.760 --> 00:05:36.200] I don't know who picked that week, but whichever one of us picked that week picked the best weather and the best time of year.
[00:05:36.520 --> 00:05:47.720] Yeah, yeah, we bumped it a few times, and then I think we just ended up-I don't, I can't remember exactly how we ended up on that week, but um, yeah, that was great.
[00:05:47.960 --> 00:05:48.760] How about you, John?
[00:05:48.760 --> 00:05:51.160] Any highlights off the top of your head?
[00:05:51.160 --> 00:05:52.440] Yeah, I think similar to Helen.
[00:05:52.440 --> 00:06:01.000] I mean, I think it was you know, the meals we had together and just spending time that wasn't necessarily revolving around work.
[00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:17.640] And I mean, because we do that all day online, and you know, the calls we have remotely are around work and planning features, and it was just nice to connect with everyone in a more personal level and get to know each other a little better.
[00:06:17.640 --> 00:06:23.400] And yeah, the unstructured time and just hanging out.
[00:06:24.040 --> 00:06:33.160] Yeah, I think we all had this sense multiple times of just it's weird being a remote team.
[00:06:33.160 --> 00:06:54.040] You build up so much rapport online, you get together, and it's almost as if you've been friends for a long time, but there's this whole other dynamic of warmth and connection and kind of real special time together that's that that's hard to explain.
[00:06:54.040 --> 00:06:58.360] And is also, um, you definitely don't get it just in Slack.
[00:06:58.360 --> 00:07:11.160] Uh, just having time together, going for walks together, having moments where we're just sitting around, you know, maybe not talking, but spending time in each other's presence.
[00:07:11.160 --> 00:07:14.440] Really, it there's really something special about it.
[00:07:15.520 --> 00:07:20.880] And I think for our team, because we like each other so much, it was even just more special.
[00:07:20.880 --> 00:07:29.280] Like, this group is, yeah, I think we came away feeling like, wow, this group's pretty special.
[00:07:29.280 --> 00:07:29.760] Definitely.
[00:07:29.840 --> 00:07:30.400] Definitely.
[00:07:30.400 --> 00:07:30.800] Yeah.
[00:07:31.440 --> 00:07:36.080] My highlight was discovering that I'm the shortest member of the transistor team.
[00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:40.240] Here, you know, on Zoom.
[00:07:42.400 --> 00:07:45.280] Well, on Zoom, we're all the same height and then show up.
[00:07:45.280 --> 00:07:48.800] And, you know, Helen's taller than me.
[00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:50.560] Jason's quite a bit taller than me.
[00:07:50.880 --> 00:07:52.800] I've always known John was taller than me.
[00:07:52.800 --> 00:07:55.280] It was, you know, I'm okay with it.
[00:07:55.280 --> 00:08:02.800] But that was the first thing you notice right away whenever you meet remote team members is, oh, wow, this is how tall everyone is.
[00:08:02.800 --> 00:08:03.520] All right.
[00:08:04.240 --> 00:08:07.120] We probably have an above-average team height.
[00:08:07.760 --> 00:08:08.960] Yeah, we probably do.
[00:08:08.960 --> 00:08:09.760] We probably do.
[00:08:09.760 --> 00:08:10.960] It's right.
[00:08:12.160 --> 00:08:20.000] I keep referencing this fact that I'm not sure if it's true, which is that I'm 5'8 is the exact height of the average Canadian male.
[00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:21.440] But I don't know.
[00:08:21.440 --> 00:08:22.800] Don't look that up.
[00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:25.520] Just let me live in my world.
[00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:38.400] I think people will want to know how we planned and organized the retreat, our daily schedule, what parts of the treat the retreat worked well, what could we improve for next time.
[00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:42.960] Maybe it would be fun for us to go through our daily schedule.
[00:08:43.520 --> 00:08:45.440] This part was not super planned.
[00:08:45.600 --> 00:08:49.600] Our document had like a.m., afternoon, p.m.
[00:08:50.240 --> 00:08:54.880] But, you know, what was the daily cadence that we kind of fell into?
[00:08:55.000 --> 00:08:55.920] I'll try to run through it.
[00:08:55.920 --> 00:08:58.960] Yeah, I think it worked pretty well without really much planning.
[00:08:58.960 --> 00:09:00.280] It's sort of planned.
[00:08:59.920 --> 00:09:02.200] It sort of worked itself out, I think.
[00:09:03.480 --> 00:09:07.880] And everybody was coming from different time zones except Jason.
[00:09:08.520 --> 00:09:17.400] So everyone sort of had different, I don't know, different sleeping schedules maybe or levels of tiredness, depending on the time of day.
[00:09:17.400 --> 00:09:22.360] But I mean, generally, we would like everybody would wake up on their own.
[00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:23.960] We all had our own rooms.
[00:09:23.960 --> 00:09:27.160] I think we got breakfast in the room or downstairs.
[00:09:27.160 --> 00:09:30.840] A small breakfast, sometimes together, sometimes not.
[00:09:30.840 --> 00:09:35.160] And then we'd sort of just, as a group, text each other and say we're up.
[00:09:35.160 --> 00:09:39.560] And a couple people might go to get coffee next door if they need more.
[00:09:41.080 --> 00:09:44.360] A couple times people went for a run in the morning.
[00:09:44.920 --> 00:09:45.800] We were along the water.
[00:09:45.800 --> 00:09:48.120] There was a nice path to run on.
[00:09:48.920 --> 00:09:58.360] And then we sort of lazily met up in the penthouse area, which we had a big meeting area, a couple couches, some tables, around 10 in the morning.
[00:09:58.360 --> 00:09:58.920] Yeah.
[00:09:59.800 --> 00:10:09.240] Kind of did our own thing, did some work, customer support, you know, fixing some bugs or working on a feature slowly.
[00:10:09.560 --> 00:10:27.960] And I think we'd sort of casually sort of roll to the couches and start a group discussion for one or two hours about a particular topic we wanted to kind of get more in depth on that we didn't over Zoom or our calls.
[00:10:27.960 --> 00:10:31.080] And then at some point, we'd all just be like, oh, we should eat.
[00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:33.400] It's time for lunch.
[00:10:35.320 --> 00:10:39.400] We got some great recommendations from people in Montreal, by the way.
[00:10:39.720 --> 00:10:47.600] Just remembering some, I think the first lunch we took was, was the first lunch we took, that big three-course meal?
[00:10:47.600 --> 00:10:48.560] Yeah, I think so.
[00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:49.840] I think that was one day.
[00:10:44.600 --> 00:10:50.880] It was at Bouillon?
[00:10:51.040 --> 00:10:51.440] Yeah.
[00:10:51.440 --> 00:10:52.560] Bouillon Bilk.
[00:10:52.720 --> 00:10:53.440] Bouillon Bilk.
[00:10:53.600 --> 00:10:54.000] Yeah.
[00:10:55.120 --> 00:10:56.240] That was an incredible lunch.
[00:10:56.320 --> 00:10:59.040] It seemed like predominantly business lunches.
[00:10:59.040 --> 00:10:59.520] Yeah.
[00:10:59.520 --> 00:11:00.800] Yeah, that place there.
[00:11:00.800 --> 00:11:01.840] I mean, there was no dress code.
[00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:04.000] I don't know if we were underdressed, but it worked out.
[00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:06.000] Yeah, it did work good.
[00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:10.640] And then after lunch, we'd kind of hang out, do whatever we wanted, right?
[00:11:10.640 --> 00:11:13.040] We kind of walk around sometimes as a group.
[00:11:13.040 --> 00:11:13.440] Yeah.
[00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:14.320] Nap time.
[00:11:14.320 --> 00:11:21.440] Get some alone time, take a nap, maybe go for a run, walk around, find another coffee.
[00:11:21.440 --> 00:11:25.600] Yeah, Jason and I were in the afternoon run category.
[00:11:25.600 --> 00:11:26.080] Yeah.
[00:11:26.400 --> 00:11:26.800] Yep.
[00:11:26.800 --> 00:11:27.280] I did too.
[00:11:27.280 --> 00:11:28.080] I always had intent.
[00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:33.360] Well, I guess I ran once in the morning, but my intentions is always to run before everything, and then I just don't.
[00:11:33.680 --> 00:11:34.160] Yeah.
[00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:38.720] Yeah, and then in the evening, we'd have dinner again.
[00:11:38.720 --> 00:11:40.960] It was usually, I mean, we ate really well.
[00:11:40.960 --> 00:11:50.080] I think the, I don't want John to look at the expenses for this trip, but I felt like the money on dinner was well spent.
[00:11:50.400 --> 00:11:51.760] Oh, I looked.
[00:11:55.680 --> 00:12:00.800] And then usually after dinner, we'd come back and sometimes hang out in the penthouse.
[00:12:00.800 --> 00:12:02.640] You guys introduced me to Mr.
[00:12:02.640 --> 00:12:03.280] Robot.
[00:12:03.280 --> 00:12:04.640] We watched that all together.
[00:12:04.640 --> 00:12:09.200] Yeah, I think that was because you were talking about how much you liked the movie Hackers.
[00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:15.040] Yes, but I wanted to re-edit it without wanting to make a fan edit.
[00:12:16.480 --> 00:12:17.120] Yeah, Mr.
[00:12:17.120 --> 00:12:17.840] Robot's good.
[00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:20.720] I've since shown it to my kids since we got back.
[00:12:21.200 --> 00:12:21.920] We're on the Mr.
[00:12:21.920 --> 00:12:22.960] Robot train now.
[00:12:23.200 --> 00:12:25.360] Have you progressed beyond episode one?
[00:12:25.360 --> 00:12:31.560] No, because I showed them episode one, and then, and tonight's Friday, so movie night.
[00:12:31.560 --> 00:12:33.800] Well, we'll probably watch episode two.
[00:12:29.920 --> 00:12:34.440] Nice.
[00:12:35.400 --> 00:12:37.320] What were some of your thoughts about the schedule?
[00:12:37.800 --> 00:12:43.960] I really liked how we had, you know, you could get some work done in the morning.
[00:12:43.960 --> 00:12:47.480] And it's also nice just working alongside each other.
[00:12:47.480 --> 00:12:51.560] You know, you can see what Jason and John are chatting about back and forth.
[00:12:51.560 --> 00:12:54.120] Helen and I can talk about a ticket.
[00:12:54.120 --> 00:13:03.480] There's just like this nice, even if we're working on our own things, it's just nice to sometimes be in that open office mode, you know?
[00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:09.240] And then to have a focused discussion every day, I thought it was great.
[00:13:09.560 --> 00:13:15.240] We did have some discussions planned out that we knew we wanted to cover, which we did.
[00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:15.800] Yeah.
[00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:20.280] But before we get into that, any comments on the schedule, Helen or Jason?
[00:13:20.280 --> 00:13:22.040] Thoughts for other teams?
[00:13:22.040 --> 00:13:23.960] Should other people do that too?
[00:13:23.960 --> 00:13:25.000] Yeah, it worked really well.
[00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:27.000] It seemed to be quite flexible.
[00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:34.760] We had a little bit of structure in mind that we all knew we would be discussing a particular topic each day.
[00:13:34.760 --> 00:13:40.520] So we tried to kind of prioritize doing the sort of business as usual tasks first thing.
[00:13:40.520 --> 00:13:46.120] So with me coming from a different time zone, I was probably waking up a little bit earlier than usual.
[00:13:46.120 --> 00:13:56.760] So I had a little bit of time before we got together to sort some customer success things out, which meant we had the sort of morning to discuss remaining issues or topics.
[00:13:56.760 --> 00:14:06.200] And yeah, just sort of have an opportunity that allowed us to kind of come up with new ideas and talk about future features as well.
[00:14:06.200 --> 00:14:07.160] How about you, Jason?
[00:14:07.160 --> 00:14:08.680] What did you think of the schedule?
[00:14:08.840 --> 00:14:09.240] It was good.
[00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:12.600] I mean, originally we were talking about like a 10 o'clock start.
[00:14:12.760 --> 00:14:13.880] I'm like, that's pretty late.
[00:14:13.880 --> 00:14:16.720] But I settled into that pretty quickly.
[00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:25.760] I have a toddler at home, so the opportunity to not get woken up at some ungodly hour was pretty pleasant.
[00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:26.640] Yeah.
[00:14:27.280 --> 00:14:32.960] A couple days I took the opportunity to wander about, have a coffee, sit outside.
[00:14:33.920 --> 00:14:34.880] So that was nice.
[00:14:34.880 --> 00:14:55.520] I mean, it's a team retreat, but I think there's also this other thing about getting away from home as an individual that gives you time, you know, time to be by yourself in a different place, time to walk around a beautiful neighborhood or a beautiful setting, reflect on your life, reflect on work.
[00:14:56.240 --> 00:15:00.640] I liked having those times, you know?
[00:15:00.640 --> 00:15:02.160] Yeah, I think it worked really well.
[00:15:02.160 --> 00:15:11.920] I think, you know, for other teams too, if you're planning something like this, like definitely plan some downtime where people can either do things by themselves or do things in small groups.
[00:15:11.920 --> 00:15:21.840] Or it doesn't, I don't think it has to be planned like, you know, nine o'clock in the morning till nine o'clock at night is like a full schedule of stuff for the company.
[00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:23.840] Yeah, I'm so glad we didn't do that.
[00:15:23.840 --> 00:15:34.400] It just felt like it felt like every day we had some work time together, every day we had a discussion, and then every day we had a group activity, and that was perfect.
[00:15:34.400 --> 00:15:38.400] And there was time in between to do what you need to do.
[00:15:38.400 --> 00:15:41.840] As a team, we're quite light on kind of the number of meetings we have each week.
[00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:46.320] So really, we had kind of a week of all of those kind of meetings together.
[00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:55.120] And also, we had all of the possible celebrations that we would have had as a team together all in that one week as well, whether that would be sort of holidays or birthdays.
[00:15:55.120 --> 00:17:32.800] We've kind of condensed everything into kind of this one um very sort of intense week and having a bit of flexibility really helped with um yeah just us all have putting our opinion in and deciding what what things we'd like to to fit into the week yeah it's it's a good way to put it because you are celebrating too it's like this is the one time we get to get to get together and have a drink uh you know cheers each other just kind of celebrate what we've accomplished as a team uh up until that point so i i'm really glad we structured it that way i'd highly recommend a similar structure unless unless your team is completely different but for our vibe it worked well hey how come your team doesn't have their own podcast head over to transistor and use my coupon transistor.fm slash justin you'll get 15 off your first year of podcast hosting so we did have before we went we had some discussions that we did each day so the first day was a company update where we at financially um maybe look over our direction where are we headed what bigger things are we trying to accomplish in the company and in our lives we reviewed some of our values and then the next day we had a product priorities discussion this kind of bled through the whole the whole week um and actually that was most of it product because we we started with that product discussion and then that became kind of uh most of the discussion that week.
[00:17:32.800 --> 00:17:36.400] And then we also planned to talk about marketing and sales priorities.
[00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:50.000] I also put this category called open air discussions, which was just to make time for people to bring up issues, things they'd like to be more involved with, things they'd like to change, things that need clarification.
[00:17:50.160 --> 00:17:54.080] I think that was kind of sprinkled throughout the week.
[00:17:54.480 --> 00:17:57.200] For you folks, what came out of the discussions?
[00:17:57.440 --> 00:17:58.720] What was good about it?
[00:17:59.760 --> 00:18:02.640] What were some of the things that were helpful about it?
[00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:03.840] Comments about it?
[00:18:03.840 --> 00:18:11.920] I mean, for me, a thing I'm always trying to figure out is where we're headed as a company.
[00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:22.160] And there's a lot of ways to, there's a lot of, I guess, kind of end goals for that and to really understand.
[00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:25.520] Like, it's hard to, it's hard to hash that out in like small bits and pieces.
[00:18:25.520 --> 00:18:40.320] So like talking about that stuff deeply with everybody and just like picking up like the vibe on like how people are feeling about things and what they want to do and was really useful and a good way to understand where everybody's at.
[00:18:40.320 --> 00:18:48.960] And in high fidelity, like, yeah, I'd say a central issue at this point is where do we want this company to go?
[00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:54.080] Like what is, is there, is they, is there a longer-term objective?
[00:18:54.080 --> 00:19:07.520] And the central tension there is probably, you know, are we going to try to build this thing bigger in the sense that it could be acquired or bigger in the sense that we could, I don't know.
[00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:11.040] I think acquisition is like the main question.
[00:19:11.360 --> 00:19:25.280] And then on the other side of that tension is, especially for John and I, but I think for all of us, we, you know, we created this company to have a better life and to really have a calm life.
[00:19:25.280 --> 00:19:35.240] And yeah, I think figuring out those things when you have when you're in person, it's like one person can speak and then the other person can speak.
[00:19:35.400 --> 00:19:40.280] And there's just this high bandwidth kind of conversation.
[00:19:40.280 --> 00:19:43.800] And then later on, you're out for drinks and you can keep talking about it.
[00:19:43.800 --> 00:19:48.120] It can just kind of flow and leak out as we went along.
[00:19:48.760 --> 00:19:54.440] Do you feel like we do you feel like we made progress on that, on that, that tension at all?
[00:19:54.440 --> 00:20:01.560] Yeah, I think one thing that you do get to notice in person more so than when we're remotely is people's enthusiasm.
[00:20:01.560 --> 00:20:18.840] So when a particular topic comes up, I guess at the beginning of a retreat, perhaps people are perhaps a little bit starting to introduce themselves to each other and the sort of more detailed conversations perhaps come out later in the week.
[00:20:19.320 --> 00:20:28.360] But you kind of really pick up on the enthusiasm people have for particular topics, whether that's certain features or certain feature directions of the company.
[00:20:28.680 --> 00:20:33.000] And that makes a big difference to kind of feel that enthusiasm in real life.
[00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:49.480] Yeah, like Jason, Jason, while we were having this feature discussion, Jason brought up this idea of kind of how we're going to organize networks and higher level grouping features within Transistor.
[00:20:49.480 --> 00:20:59.480] And I think after you pitched that, Jason, there was like this kind of palpable enthusiasm about that particular direction.
[00:20:59.720 --> 00:21:00.920] Did you feel that too?
[00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:01.720] Yeah, for sure.
[00:21:01.720 --> 00:21:11.480] And it's like something we've briefly talked about before, but not like, I don't think anybody sort of like deeply thought about it.
[00:21:11.480 --> 00:21:17.920] So as soon as the idea was out there, everybody was kind of iterating on it and throwing out things that could be done with it.
[00:21:19.040 --> 00:21:27.840] And it felt like it had kind of become everybody's feature that we wanted to work on.
[00:21:27.840 --> 00:21:28.240] Yeah.
[00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:33.360] Yeah, the feature discussions, I think, worked really well in person.
[00:21:33.360 --> 00:21:42.240] Like we haven't, obviously we've never done that before, but it felt quite a bit different than us just planning things over Zoom.
[00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:49.200] And I don't know if that's because you're just in people's presence and you can pick up on, like Tylen said, the excitement a little easier.
[00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:51.040] But also, like, you know, you can keep talking.
[00:21:51.040 --> 00:21:53.120] We kept talking about those topics later in the day.
[00:21:53.120 --> 00:21:55.840] We didn't just stop necessarily.
[00:21:55.840 --> 00:21:57.520] So you can kind of keep the discussion going.
[00:21:57.520 --> 00:22:02.800] Whereas if you're remote, you know, you might throw some things in Slack, but it's not in person.
[00:22:02.800 --> 00:22:04.240] It's not quite as detailed.
[00:22:04.240 --> 00:22:10.640] And I think it can, like, the excitement can maybe fade away easier if you're not together.
[00:22:11.280 --> 00:22:13.760] So I really enjoyed the product discussions.
[00:22:13.760 --> 00:22:18.080] Like, I haven't had that in a while on a team.
[00:22:18.080 --> 00:22:22.240] You know, Justin, you and I, like, we got together in, was it January?
[00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:22.640] Yeah.
[00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:29.280] Yeah, we did some of that, and that felt similar, but it was quite a bit different with, you know, Helen and Jason there as well.
[00:22:29.280 --> 00:22:33.920] Kind of just spitballing and throwing ideas back and forth and like riffing on each other.
[00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:35.120] And oh, what about this?
[00:22:35.120 --> 00:22:45.360] And kind of get a better sense of how excited people are and just different ideas of how the feature could work.
[00:22:45.360 --> 00:22:48.400] And yeah, that was good.
[00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:50.800] And I think, I mean, there's a few things.
[00:22:50.800 --> 00:22:57.120] One, for me, I mean, I've been working remote and then I worked independent for quite a while.
[00:22:57.120 --> 00:23:07.080] So I think my last job where I was like in a room with people working through ideas was probably 2015 or 16, maybe.
[00:23:07.080 --> 00:23:08.440] I can't remember.
[00:23:09.400 --> 00:23:15.880] So it's been a while since I've been in a room, you know, kind of all working on something together.
[00:23:15.880 --> 00:23:25.640] And I mean, this old cynical version of me was like, ah, like all those meetings we used to do at those old companies were such a waste.
[00:23:25.640 --> 00:23:29.720] But this was like a new version of that that really felt good.
[00:23:29.960 --> 00:23:33.320] It was like, oh, wow, like we've been missing this.
[00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:47.720] And as we try to figure out, like, we're still like figuring out how to work together, it became so clear to me that for a remote team to really figure out how to work together, they need to spend some time together.
[00:23:47.960 --> 00:23:52.280] Because it kind of sifts out all of the rough edges.
[00:23:54.600 --> 00:23:59.240] At the end of it, you have a little bit better sense of how you can work.
[00:23:59.560 --> 00:24:12.600] And then we did, I can't remember if it was you, Helen, that recommended this, but we ended up changing our weekly meeting, our weekly Zoom meeting.
[00:24:12.600 --> 00:24:15.880] Do you want to describe what we changed, Helen?
[00:24:16.200 --> 00:24:32.200] So normally we would have a full meeting on a Thursday that would be centered around customer success, whether that would be feature requests or issues that we want to solve or things that are frustrating for customers that we want to improve upon.
[00:24:32.840 --> 00:24:41.960] And because we have this kind of sort of feature set that we want to work on as a team as well, we've decided to kind of split this meeting a little bit.
[00:24:41.960 --> 00:24:46.880] So we have a first part of customer success where we talk about the requests people have asked for.
[00:24:44.680 --> 00:25:02.160] And then we have the second part, which is more focused on a particular feature that we would like to dive deeper into as a team and sort of shape and move something forward.
[00:25:02.800 --> 00:25:14.560] I think sometimes the meetings we have contain a lot of ideas, whereas the structure that we've moved to now seems to be a little bit more laser focused on one particular thing.
[00:25:14.560 --> 00:25:16.720] We move things forward better.
[00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:25.760] And I think one of the benefits of the retreat is our remote product discussions since seem to flow a little bit better as well.
[00:25:27.120 --> 00:25:29.280] Yeah, that was a big improvement.
[00:25:29.280 --> 00:25:34.160] And even there's sometimes a disconnect.
[00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:38.000] Again, maybe this is because it's been a long time since I've worked on a team.
[00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:46.080] Maybe because it started out with just John and I, and it was just easy for us to just keep throwing things over the fence to each other.
[00:25:46.080 --> 00:26:06.240] But I think once we had two more people, once there were four of us, for me, there was a bit of a disconnect between like we've got ideas and then one, I think for John and Jason and everyone else too, we've got ideas and then how do those ideas become a practical plan to actually build something?
[00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:23.680] And we've been loosely following Basecamp's shape-up process, but often it felt like in Slack the feedback was, we really need to like nail down what are the first steps for us to start working on this thing.
[00:26:23.680 --> 00:26:30.120] Like how do we get this thing to the point where we can put it in our project management software and start working on it?
[00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:33.400] Would you agree with that, John, Jason, Helen?
[00:26:33.560 --> 00:26:37.720] Is that kind of a lot of ideas in Slack and the others?
[00:26:38.280 --> 00:26:46.920] I don't know if it's a lack of focus, but we have a lot of ideas, which is a good thing, but we don't necessarily tighten those up often enough, I think.
[00:26:46.920 --> 00:26:49.960] Some of it's sussing out our collective enthusiasm for it.
[00:26:49.960 --> 00:26:56.200] Like, we're such a small team and we have so many ideas that we would like to implement.
[00:26:56.200 --> 00:27:02.600] It's very difficult to figure out what we as a group want to tackle first.
[00:27:02.600 --> 00:27:05.560] So it sort of all gets muddied up.
[00:27:06.360 --> 00:27:15.640] But talking about these things in person, it was pretty clear which things folks had the most interest in, I think.
[00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:38.120] I had this out the other day, and I don't know if people agree with this, but if we were always in the same room, let's say we had an office and we worked together, I don't know if we'd probably have more meetings just because, maybe, but like I feel like these discussions worked really well in person because we knew we had a limited time.
[00:27:38.120 --> 00:27:38.680] Yeah, I don't know.
[00:27:38.680 --> 00:27:50.680] I just feel like if we were in the same office working together, like maybe because we think we would have all this time to get together and talk, we maybe would do it less efficiently or less well.
[00:27:50.920 --> 00:27:57.640] It just seemed like there was something special about it because it's not a frequent thing.
[00:27:57.640 --> 00:27:58.760] Yeah, I agree.
[00:27:58.760 --> 00:27:59.320] I agree.
[00:27:59.320 --> 00:28:08.440] I think it did almost feel like we could probably do something like that twice a year, but I definitely felt like we had the time.
[00:28:08.440 --> 00:28:10.840] We knew we only had a week together.
[00:28:10.840 --> 00:28:22.160] And it also became clear, like, we really only have time for a focused, one focused discussion a day if we're going to keep this kind of schedule.
[00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:30.640] And so every morning I was kind of like, okay, yeah, we got to move over to the couches and talk because that's going to be our moment to have that conversation.
[00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:33.760] And if we don't do it in the morning, it might not happen.
[00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:35.840] I thought that was great.
[00:28:35.840 --> 00:28:43.920] And the other thing I felt like was really great is we really hammered kind of these discussions out, all these feature ideas.
[00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:48.240] We got to what does an initial version look like?
[00:28:48.560 --> 00:28:51.760] And that seemed to really clarify things.
[00:28:51.760 --> 00:28:59.760] And when we got home, we put that initial version kind of in a shaping dock and then worked through it together just in Google Docs.
[00:28:59.760 --> 00:29:13.680] Yeah, I mean, we definitely didn't finalize these ideas by any means, but it was definitely a good jumping off point to start shaping it and try to figure out what, you know, how to build this thing in pieces or all at once if we need to or whatever.
[00:29:14.240 --> 00:29:20.800] So let's quickly go through which parts of the retreat worked well and what could we improve next time.
[00:29:21.440 --> 00:29:23.360] I thought the location was great.
[00:29:23.360 --> 00:29:25.600] People asked us why we chose Montreal.
[00:29:25.600 --> 00:29:30.080] I think just because it's one of the most unique cities in North America.
[00:29:30.320 --> 00:29:33.200] It was first time in Canada for Helen, is that right?
[00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:34.000] Yeah, that's right.
[00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:34.560] Yeah.
[00:29:34.560 --> 00:29:36.160] Yeah, good introduction to Canada.
[00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:40.640] I think part of it was it was like centrally located for all of us, sort of.
[00:29:41.040 --> 00:29:41.440] Right?
[00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:47.600] Like Helen's coming from the East, Justin's coming from the West, Jason and I are coming from the Midwest.
[00:29:47.600 --> 00:29:50.320] It was all like kind of in the middle.
[00:29:50.320 --> 00:29:55.040] Has anybody actually triangulated the central spot between?
[00:29:55.120 --> 00:30:01.000] I did put it in a, I did put it in a, they have these online map things like meet in the middle.
[00:29:59.760 --> 00:30:06.280] And it's roughly, you know, Helen's flight and my flight were roughly about the same.
[00:30:07.240 --> 00:30:11.320] You, you folks were more, well, Jason, you're East, and then John, you're more central.
[00:30:11.320 --> 00:30:23.800] So, yeah, John Young Fuch, I think from Banner Bear, said somebody should build just a tool that triangulates team retreats based on a number of factors.
[00:30:23.800 --> 00:30:40.280] So, not just distance, but you know, maybe, you know, cultural cities or attractions or, you know, time of year and maybe other events that are happening at the same time.
[00:30:40.440 --> 00:30:41.480] I think that's a cool idea.
[00:30:41.480 --> 00:30:46.120] I don't know if you can make a business out of it, but it'd be a cool little tool that we would definitely use.
[00:30:46.120 --> 00:30:47.720] Yeah, I thought, yeah, that worked really well.
[00:30:47.720 --> 00:30:49.160] I think the city was perfect.
[00:30:49.400 --> 00:30:51.880] I'd never been before, but I'd always heard good things.
[00:30:51.880 --> 00:30:54.840] And I would totally go back to Montreal and hang out there.
[00:30:55.160 --> 00:30:57.800] I'm sure there's tons left to explore.
[00:30:57.800 --> 00:30:58.360] Oh, man.
[00:30:58.360 --> 00:30:59.400] I definitely want to go back.
[00:30:59.400 --> 00:31:05.880] And every person that stayed, like Helen and I stayed a day later, and we went to that amazing light show in Notre Dame.
[00:31:05.880 --> 00:31:07.640] And then Helen stayed even later than me.
[00:31:07.640 --> 00:31:11.400] And then she hiked Mount Royale without us.
[00:31:11.400 --> 00:31:11.960] Yeah.
[00:31:13.240 --> 00:31:16.200] And made us jealous with her beautiful photo.
[00:31:16.200 --> 00:31:17.960] That was a nice photo.
[00:31:18.600 --> 00:31:25.560] Yeah, I couldn't leave without actually going to, you know, see the park and go to the mountain.
[00:31:25.720 --> 00:31:27.320] What did you folks think of the hotel?
[00:31:27.320 --> 00:31:32.040] We stayed at Epic Montreal, right in downtown, there.
[00:31:32.200 --> 00:31:33.400] Sorry, Old Montreal, there.
[00:31:33.400 --> 00:31:35.000] Yeah, it was a great hotel.
[00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:37.640] It was quite a small hotel, which was kind of good for us.
[00:31:37.640 --> 00:31:39.560] It kind of felt quite personal.
[00:31:39.560 --> 00:31:43.080] We were probably the biggest group that was staying there.
[00:31:44.120 --> 00:31:46.320] So, yeah, it was very, very nice.
[00:31:44.840 --> 00:31:48.720] I felt like we were the only people there some days.
[00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:53.920] I mean, there was one probably 10 rooms total in that place.
[00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:55.040] Maybe?
[00:31:55.040 --> 00:31:56.880] Yeah, there wasn't very many rooms.
[00:31:56.880 --> 00:31:58.800] It was nice and small.
[00:31:59.120 --> 00:32:12.800] And I think Carl Alexander from Mega Makers, the one that pointed me that direction, I just asked for recommendations for hotels, and he had a friend at that hotel.
[00:32:12.800 --> 00:32:15.280] The penthouse was pretty awesome.
[00:32:15.840 --> 00:32:20.960] It felt like it was in terms of a place for us to all hang out in.
[00:32:21.520 --> 00:32:22.800] Had some quirks.
[00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:26.080] It had some quirks.
[00:32:26.800 --> 00:32:34.080] But it was like the one quirk was that it has a pitched ceiling, right?
[00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:35.440] Is that the way you say it?
[00:32:35.440 --> 00:32:36.720] A pitched ceiling?
[00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:37.760] I think so.
[00:32:37.760 --> 00:32:38.160] Yeah.
[00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:42.960] So Jason had to walk sideways sometimes to get around there.
[00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:43.920] Which is fun.
[00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:46.320] It's not that unusual for me.
[00:32:46.320 --> 00:32:57.200] Yeah, it had a cool loft and dining table, kitchen, separate area for TV watching, separate area for like couches and hanging out.
[00:32:57.200 --> 00:33:00.560] So there's like some distinct areas.
[00:33:00.560 --> 00:33:05.600] And depending on our mood, sometimes we would all hang out in the kitchen just on the bar stools.
[00:33:05.600 --> 00:33:07.360] Sometimes we were watching TV.
[00:33:07.360 --> 00:33:09.440] Sometimes we were at the dining table.
[00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:14.400] Sometimes we were in the other kind of coffee place.
[00:33:14.800 --> 00:33:16.720] It had some outdoor balconies.
[00:33:16.720 --> 00:33:27.040] I think some of the recommendations that we had really helped to point us in the right direction, whether that was restaurants, places to visit, the hotel, things like that.
[00:33:27.040 --> 00:33:39.480] So having a city where we perhaps have connections with people who are already there was helpful and also to arrange like meetups and in-person coffee chats, things like that.
[00:33:39.480 --> 00:33:45.080] I tweeted about our trip quite a bit and asked folks if they were, you know, had recommendations.
[00:33:45.400 --> 00:33:53.880] I found, I emailed a list of customers who were in Montreal and said, hey, we're in Montreal for a week.
[00:33:53.880 --> 00:33:57.240] If you'd like to meet up, let's find a time.
[00:33:57.240 --> 00:34:03.000] And then I just sent them to a reform form that had a bunch of options.
[00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:10.200] So Helen and I met with a group of our customers at MedPlan, which is a communications agency in Montreal.
[00:34:10.200 --> 00:34:11.560] That was really helpful.
[00:34:11.560 --> 00:34:16.520] We came back fired up from listening to all their product feedback.
[00:34:16.520 --> 00:34:19.240] And then we did another meetup.
[00:34:19.240 --> 00:34:32.920] Jason and John had left, unfortunately, but we did one on Friday afternoon at a restaurant where just anybody on our list or anybody who knew that we were there could come and hang out.
[00:34:32.920 --> 00:34:36.840] So we had some customers come, we had some podcasters come, some indie hackers come.
[00:34:37.480 --> 00:34:39.000] That was really fun.
[00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:41.240] Yeah, I love that part personally.
[00:34:41.240 --> 00:34:48.920] I love doing a few customer things on top of the meetup, and we had the space to do it.
[00:34:48.920 --> 00:34:50.840] So yeah, that was great.
[00:34:50.840 --> 00:34:55.560] I think we probably want to go somewhere different every year, but that location was just amazing.
[00:34:55.560 --> 00:34:57.320] It really set a high bar.
[00:34:57.640 --> 00:35:09.720] I wonder, I have a very skewed view, I think, of what Montreal looks like because we're in this really old, beautiful area, and we saw virtually nothing outside of it.
[00:35:09.720 --> 00:35:13.160] So, next time you want to stay in the suburbs in an Airbnb, Jason?
[00:35:13.480 --> 00:35:13.960] That's right.
[00:35:13.960 --> 00:35:23.040] If we could find like a Radisson or no, the neighborhood we were in was great, and you know, old Montreal, but and we walked around a bit at night.
[00:35:23.040 --> 00:35:28.640] We went to a concert one night and kind of walked back and walked around a different part of town.
[00:35:29.360 --> 00:35:39.280] And I think the last night we were there, we had dinner in what is actually like a pretty cool neighbor, pretty cool neighborhood, but we didn't really get to see it because it was evening.
[00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:42.400] We didn't really walk around, but apparently, that's a really cool part of town.
[00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:49.840] Yeah, I think we could have even stayed in that in Le Plateau and had a really good time.
[00:35:50.880 --> 00:36:01.200] I think actually in this case, not every city's like this, but in this case, it was actually nice not staying at an Airbnb.
[00:36:01.360 --> 00:36:03.200] It was easy to check in.
[00:36:03.200 --> 00:36:06.080] It was easy for everybody to get their own room.
[00:36:07.120 --> 00:36:10.160] We really did have privacy as a team, too.
[00:36:10.160 --> 00:36:12.880] Like, each of us had our own room we could go to.
[00:36:13.040 --> 00:36:14.960] It felt like that was money well spent.
[00:36:14.960 --> 00:36:21.120] Yeah, I really enjoyed having like a shared space and then our own, our own separate rooms.
[00:36:21.120 --> 00:36:23.040] Yeah, yeah, I thought that was great.
[00:36:23.040 --> 00:36:27.440] The meals together, you know, that was great.
[00:36:27.440 --> 00:36:30.080] We did, like we already said, lunch and dinners.
[00:36:30.080 --> 00:36:33.760] We had just some awesome meals together.
[00:36:33.760 --> 00:36:35.520] And I really liked the activities.
[00:36:35.520 --> 00:36:37.760] This kind of happened organically.
[00:36:38.080 --> 00:36:41.920] This is something I wouldn't naturally think of, but you folks did.
[00:36:41.920 --> 00:36:44.160] So Helen was like, oh, we should go see a hockey game.
[00:36:44.160 --> 00:36:48.320] And she just booked the tickets and got it all done.
[00:36:48.320 --> 00:36:51.520] John was like, what's the name of that band again?
[00:36:51.520 --> 00:36:53.680] It's Motorat.
[00:36:53.680 --> 00:36:54.640] Motorat, yeah.
[00:36:54.640 --> 00:36:58.000] So you were like, you just looked up to see what bands were playing.
[00:36:58.000 --> 00:37:01.000] Yeah, it was like randomly found that, like, oh, this band's in town.
[00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:02.920] Cool, they're awesome.
[00:37:02.920 --> 00:37:05.640] Maybe we, maybe, if everyone's interested, we should go.
[00:36:59.840 --> 00:37:06.840] Yeah, it was super fun.
[00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:11.720] Like, I'd never even heard them before, but it was fun going to that concert together.
[00:37:11.720 --> 00:37:14.040] The venue is really neat.
[00:37:14.600 --> 00:37:15.480] What else did we do?
[00:37:15.480 --> 00:37:17.400] We did the boat ride.
[00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:20.600] I loved the boat ride.
[00:37:20.920 --> 00:37:23.080] That was one of my highlights.
[00:37:23.080 --> 00:37:30.600] Yeah, that was kind of we were trying to find like one of those boats that was like more of a tour boat, but we ended up on like the public transit boat.
[00:37:30.600 --> 00:37:32.120] Yeah, on the ferry.
[00:37:32.440 --> 00:37:33.480] Yeah, the ferry.
[00:37:33.480 --> 00:37:34.440] It was great there.
[00:37:34.440 --> 00:37:35.480] It was great, yeah.
[00:37:35.480 --> 00:37:36.600] That thing was fast.
[00:37:36.600 --> 00:37:37.960] It was a really fast boat.
[00:37:37.960 --> 00:37:39.400] Yeah, it was super fast.
[00:37:39.560 --> 00:37:43.400] I got some great like sunset photos on the way back on the water.
[00:37:43.400 --> 00:37:45.400] Justin got to practice his French.
[00:37:45.400 --> 00:37:45.880] Oh, yeah.
[00:37:45.880 --> 00:37:50.760] I cornered this old French couple and just wouldn't let them, I wouldn't leave them alone.
[00:37:50.920 --> 00:37:53.000] Just kept practicing my French.
[00:37:53.000 --> 00:38:02.840] I got an education in French politics, French history, English-French relations, East-West relations.
[00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:04.840] We covered it all.
[00:38:05.800 --> 00:38:12.840] The other thing that worked well is I'm so glad that everybody took time to take photos.
[00:38:13.160 --> 00:38:18.920] We have so many great photos that we shared with each other in a shared album.
[00:38:18.920 --> 00:38:27.000] And especially, I mean, I'm built like this because I'm a dad, but I was trying to be deliberate in saying, oh, let's get a photo taken.
[00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:30.520] And if we can find someone to take a picture for us, let's do that.
[00:38:30.520 --> 00:38:35.800] And so we got a few, I mean, like 70% of those photos are not great.
[00:38:35.800 --> 00:38:37.240] And then a few worked out.
[00:38:37.240 --> 00:38:42.200] And we just got this great photo of us with the Ferris wheel behind us and all the fall colors.
[00:38:42.200 --> 00:38:46.480] And we just look fucking golden out there.
[00:38:46.480 --> 00:38:48.480] That lady, that lady was a pro.
[00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:49.040] Total pro.
[00:38:49.280 --> 00:38:49.520] Yeah.
[00:38:44.840 --> 00:38:52.160] That lady we asked was a pro.
[00:38:53.680 --> 00:38:55.360] I really liked that part.
[00:38:55.360 --> 00:38:58.480] And everybody contributed by taking photos.
[00:38:58.480 --> 00:39:00.640] And I thought that was great.
[00:39:00.640 --> 00:39:16.240] I do think at one point, next retreat, I want to get a professional photographer to come in and take some photos because those assets of us hanging out or doing work or having a discussion are just so valuable from a marketing perspective.
[00:39:16.560 --> 00:39:21.440] So valuable for even just, we could also do headshots then.
[00:39:21.680 --> 00:39:42.320] I think having a professional photographer would have been a nice addition and probably not that much more money just to have someone come in for to do some nice, really nice photos that we can use in press releases and blog posts and tweets and also for us to all have uniform headshots if we wanted.
[00:39:43.040 --> 00:39:45.200] Yeah, I thought that would be good too.
[00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:51.760] Any other thoughts on what we could improve for next time or other advice we would give to teams to close this out?
[00:39:51.760 --> 00:40:02.320] I guess I think one of the things that really worked well was obviously you, Justin, you kind of led the group in terms of a lot of the product discussions.
[00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:12.160] I guess if you have a larger team, it might be nice to perhaps rotate who that responsibility falls to each day.
[00:40:12.720 --> 00:40:29.200] So there's an opportunity for like each person to step up and take ownership of a particular feature or a particular talk for the day so that you can also enjoy being part of those discussions without having to lead them all the time.
[00:40:29.200 --> 00:40:31.160] Oh, we should do that next time.
[00:40:31.160 --> 00:40:32.920] We should just have someone lead every day.
[00:40:32.920 --> 00:40:35.720] You need to force us into the leadership position.
[00:40:29.840 --> 00:40:36.200] Yeah.
[00:40:36.760 --> 00:40:37.640] Exactly.
[00:40:37.640 --> 00:40:38.840] Exactly.
[00:40:38.840 --> 00:40:42.760] And I'm going to force you guys all to go to organize one meetup.
[00:40:42.760 --> 00:40:44.520] And I'm going to force you all to.
[00:40:47.400 --> 00:40:51.320] I was definitely, it felt like I was definitely the one extrovert in the group.
[00:40:51.800 --> 00:40:55.960] We have a very introverted group.
[00:40:58.520 --> 00:41:03.960] Anything else for other teams, advice or things that we should improve on next time?
[00:41:03.960 --> 00:41:14.920] It's okay for us to get a little bit, you know, you can be a little bit dangerous and reveal something that you didn't think worked well or that we should do next time.
[00:41:14.920 --> 00:41:17.720] I honestly can't think of anything that didn't work well.
[00:41:17.720 --> 00:41:31.640] I mean, you know, it might be nice next time to like change up the venue to maybe a smaller city or outdoor activities or which it would be totally different.
[00:41:31.880 --> 00:41:33.400] You're not going to go out to restaurants every day.
[00:41:33.480 --> 00:41:35.960] You're not going to do this and that, but like, yeah.
[00:41:36.120 --> 00:41:41.240] Could be like, we'll go on some hikes or like hang out on a boat on a blake or, you know.
[00:41:41.240 --> 00:41:41.640] Yeah.
[00:41:42.120 --> 00:41:44.120] Yeah, let's do the whole thing on a boat.
[00:41:44.440 --> 00:41:45.080] Yeah.
[00:41:47.880 --> 00:41:49.320] What kind of boat are you thinking of, John?
[00:41:49.320 --> 00:41:52.760] Are you thinking of like a sailboat or a houseboat or a cruise ship?
[00:41:52.760 --> 00:41:54.760] Are we going to go cruising next time?
[00:41:54.760 --> 00:41:55.400] I don't know.
[00:41:55.480 --> 00:41:56.680] Could do a houseboat.
[00:41:57.080 --> 00:41:58.680] It might get a little cramped.
[00:41:59.000 --> 00:41:59.640] Yeah.
[00:41:59.640 --> 00:42:00.200] Yeah.
[00:42:01.480 --> 00:42:02.360] Yeah, I agree.
[00:42:02.360 --> 00:42:04.280] I think it'd be fun to mix up the venue.
[00:42:04.280 --> 00:42:13.000] Marie Poulin and her team did their retreat at the same time in Banff, and I think they had somebody cook the whole time.
[00:42:13.960 --> 00:42:18.720] And so they didn't go out for meals as much, but they had really amazing meals inside.
[00:42:19.040 --> 00:42:23.520] And then they had all the hiking and other things to do outside.
[00:42:23.520 --> 00:42:25.360] Yeah, I think that'd be great.
[00:42:25.600 --> 00:42:29.600] If you have questions about the team retreat we didn't cover, reach out to us on Twitter.
[00:42:29.600 --> 00:42:32.800] All of our Twitter handles are in this episode.
[00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:38.320] You can also, if you're on the web, look at our people profiles, which is a new feature we just released.
[00:42:38.320 --> 00:42:46.880] Every transistor customer gets to set up hosts and guests, and they get a photo, they get a link, they get a social media link.
[00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:51.120] So if you're looking for any of our Twitter handles, they're all there.
[00:42:51.120 --> 00:42:54.000] SAS.transistor.fm.
[00:42:54.320 --> 00:43:06.080] John Buddha, we have some people to thank who have been supporting us for such a long time, even when we don't release an episode every week or every month, even.
[00:43:06.560 --> 00:43:07.840] Big shout outs to these people.
[00:43:07.840 --> 00:43:09.680] John, do you want to go through the list?
[00:43:09.680 --> 00:43:11.360] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:43:12.320 --> 00:43:13.760] Thanks to all of our supporters.
[00:43:13.760 --> 00:43:40.480] We have Jason Charnes, Michael Davis from recruitkit.com.au, Marcel Folle from WeAreBold.af, Alex Payne, Bill Kondo, Anton Zorin from Prodcamp.com, Harris Kenny from the Intro to CRM podcast, Oleg Kulik, Ethan Gunderson, Ward Sandler from Memberspace, Russell Brown from Fotivo.com.
[00:43:40.640 --> 00:43:41.680] That's right, yep.
[00:43:41.680 --> 00:43:54.720] Noah Prale, Colin Gray, Austin Lovelace, Michael Sitver, Paul Jarvis, and Jack Ellis from Fathom, my brother Dan Buddha, Darby Frey, Adam DeVander, Dave Junta.
[00:43:55.040 --> 00:44:00.360] Junta, who actually, I forgot, he's got his own people profile.
[00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:04.200] If you go to sass.transistor.fm slash people, there's Dave Junta.
[00:43:59.840 --> 00:44:05.320] You can see what he looks like.
[00:44:05.640 --> 00:44:09.960] You can go and click on his profile, hear the episode he was in.
[00:44:10.280 --> 00:44:12.600] We got to have Junta back, I think, on the show.
[00:44:12.600 --> 00:44:13.240] Absolutely.
[00:44:13.240 --> 00:44:13.960] We should.
[00:44:13.960 --> 00:44:14.440] Yeah.
[00:44:14.760 --> 00:44:21.160] And we have Kyle Fox from getrewardful.com and Simon and Vulcan.
[00:44:21.160 --> 00:44:22.200] Can you explain this one?
[00:44:22.440 --> 00:44:23.560] This looks different to me.
[00:44:23.560 --> 00:44:31.320] Yeah, this is a new bootstrapper podcast Simon and Vulcan are doing ship sassfaster.com.
[00:44:31.640 --> 00:44:37.560] Worth listening to if you like the bootstrappers talking to bootstrappers every week format.
[00:44:37.720 --> 00:44:41.640] It kind of feels like an early build your SAS podcast.
[00:44:42.200 --> 00:44:46.040] Yeah, worth checking out shipsfaster.com.
[00:44:46.360 --> 00:44:47.880] Thanks everyone for listening.
[00:44:47.880 --> 00:44:51.960] Thanks to Jason, Helen, John for being here.
[00:44:51.960 --> 00:44:54.040] And we'll see you next time we record an episode.
[00:44:54.040 --> 00:44:55.320] Glad we got this one out.
[00:44:55.320 --> 00:44:56.840] Talk to you later.
[00:45:12.840 --> 00:45:13.800] Beauty.
[00:45:13.800 --> 00:45:17.640] Podcast hosting is provided by transistor.fm.
[00:45:17.640 --> 00:45:28.920] They host our mp3 files, generate our RSS feed, provide us with analytics, and help us distribute the show to Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and more.
[00:45:28.920 --> 00:45:39.960] If you want to start your own podcast or you want to switch to Transistor, go to transistor.fm/slash Justin and get fifteen percent off your first year.

Prompt 2: Key Takeaways

Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.

Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...". 

Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive. 

IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}

Prompt 3: Segments

Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.

For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)  
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion

IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
  "segments": [
    {
      "segment_title": "Topic Discussion", 
      "timestamp": "01:15:30",
      "key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
      "segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
    }
  ]
}

Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.

Prompt 4: Media Mentions

Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:

Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)  
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)

DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names

IMPORTANT: 
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
  "media_mentions": [
    {
      "title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
      "category": "Book",
      "author_artist": "N/A",
      "context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
      "context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
      "timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
    }
  ]
}

If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}

Full Transcript

[00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:03.440] This podcast is hosted by Transistor.fm.
[00:00:17.600 --> 00:00:19.840] Hey everyone, welcome to Build Your SAS.
[00:00:19.840 --> 00:00:24.080] This is the behind the scenes story of building a web app in 2022.
[00:00:24.080 --> 00:00:26.400] I'm John Bruda, a software engineer.
[00:00:26.400 --> 00:00:27.120] I'm Helen.
[00:00:27.120 --> 00:00:28.880] I'm in charge of customer success.
[00:00:28.880 --> 00:00:31.040] I'm Jason, and I'm a software engineer.
[00:00:31.040 --> 00:00:32.320] And I'm Justin Jackson.
[00:00:32.320 --> 00:00:34.400] I do product and marketing.
[00:00:34.400 --> 00:00:47.440] Follow along as we build transistor.fm second episode with all of us together.
[00:00:47.440 --> 00:00:48.080] All right.
[00:00:48.640 --> 00:00:49.920] Getting the team back.
[00:00:50.240 --> 00:00:53.360] Got the whole team on the call.
[00:00:53.360 --> 00:00:59.840] And we just got back from our first ever team retreat in Montreal.
[00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:03.680] We were there but a week ago.
[00:01:04.320 --> 00:01:05.040] Right?
[00:01:05.040 --> 00:01:06.560] Yeah, it was a week ago.
[00:01:06.560 --> 00:01:09.440] Yeah, we all came back a week ago or so.
[00:01:09.760 --> 00:01:13.520] So we're going to talk a little bit about remote team retreats.
[00:01:13.520 --> 00:01:18.800] We're going to talk about what we learned, our advice for other teams.
[00:01:18.960 --> 00:01:23.360] But maybe let's start with everybody's highlight, or just one highlight.
[00:01:23.360 --> 00:01:29.760] It doesn't have to be your absolute top, but who has a highlight they want to share to start?
[00:01:30.400 --> 00:01:33.440] I would say, I was just trying to think of one a little bit ago.
[00:01:33.600 --> 00:01:34.880] I really enjoyed the hockey game.
[00:01:34.880 --> 00:01:37.680] I don't watch sports at all.
[00:01:38.640 --> 00:01:42.160] So that was like a fun thing for me, especially hockey.
[00:01:42.160 --> 00:01:54.480] But it was like a whole, like A, it was hockey, B, it was in Canada, and then C, everybody speaks French, and like the national anthem was like in French first.
[00:01:55.040 --> 00:01:58.160] It was just like a completely different vibe and very fun experience.
[00:01:58.480 --> 00:02:00.280] Not to mention the free food.
[00:01:59.440 --> 00:02:05.640] Helen organized that one and somehow she got us tickets where all the food was free on that level.
[00:02:06.360 --> 00:02:07.480] How I managed to do that.
[00:02:07.480 --> 00:02:16.600] I'm not quite sure what kind of free tea we were on there, but we managed to get some free pizza and free hot dogs and things.
[00:02:16.600 --> 00:02:17.320] I was good.
[00:02:17.320 --> 00:02:20.360] I thought that dude was trolling us when we came in.
[00:02:20.360 --> 00:02:24.120] He was like, Yo Anglo's food is free.
[00:02:24.120 --> 00:02:27.400] And I was like, is he just making fun of us or something?
[00:02:28.680 --> 00:02:32.040] And then we went to pay for the food and they're like, no, it's all free.
[00:02:32.040 --> 00:02:33.000] We're like, what?
[00:02:33.320 --> 00:02:36.280] It definitely explained the extremely long lines.
[00:02:36.600 --> 00:02:38.360] Yeah, yeah, there was true line.
[00:02:38.360 --> 00:02:39.560] That's pretty good.
[00:02:40.360 --> 00:02:44.680] How is that hockey game different than watching a football game back home, Helen?
[00:02:44.680 --> 00:02:45.880] Very different.
[00:02:46.280 --> 00:02:49.960] Very civilized, very relaxed.
[00:02:49.960 --> 00:02:53.000] Everybody seemed to be in good spirits.
[00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:57.720] It seemed to be like a very family-oriented night out, really.
[00:02:57.720 --> 00:02:58.840] Yeah, it was good to see.
[00:02:58.840 --> 00:02:59.960] I'm glad we kind of did that.
[00:03:00.120 --> 00:03:02.120] I enjoyed the hockey game too.
[00:03:02.520 --> 00:03:07.880] It was kind of a good introduction to Montreal because we did it at the beginning of the week.
[00:03:08.040 --> 00:03:18.920] It was kind of nice to take part in a local event and yeah, see two teams with a long-standing rivalry compete, really.
[00:03:18.920 --> 00:03:20.440] So yeah, it was interesting.
[00:03:20.680 --> 00:03:24.760] What did you think of the fan reaction when Montreal scored their one and only goal?
[00:03:24.760 --> 00:03:32.640] Yeah, you would think they had won the entire game or some major tournament, but no, it was just one goal.
[00:03:32.640 --> 00:03:36.360] Um, and uh, it made it worth the while waiting till the end.
[00:03:36.360 --> 00:03:39.720] People were leaving, and um, they still hadn't scored.
[00:03:39.720 --> 00:03:41.960] So I'm glad that they got one in the end.
[00:03:41.960 --> 00:03:42.360] Yeah.
[00:03:42.360 --> 00:03:44.040] I think the scorer was Toronto.
[00:03:44.040 --> 00:03:53.520] This was a preseason game, uh, so I think both teams were trying out some of their rookies, but uh, I think the final score was 7-1 or something for Toronto.
[00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:55.200] But yeah, that was that was fun.
[00:03:55.200 --> 00:04:05.680] Two classic teams on the ice at the same time, and we had really good seats, drank some cheap Canadian beer, got to watch some Zambonis.
[00:04:05.680 --> 00:04:10.320] Oh, yeah, Jason, the Zambonis, highlight, hey, absolutely the highlight of the game.
[00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:12.000] Always the highlight of hockey.
[00:04:12.880 --> 00:04:16.480] You didn't approve of their way that they cleared the ice.
[00:04:16.480 --> 00:04:17.760] You thought it could be better.
[00:04:17.760 --> 00:04:20.160] They could have optimized it.
[00:04:20.160 --> 00:04:21.520] Most definitely.
[00:04:21.840 --> 00:04:22.720] All right, let's keep going.
[00:04:22.720 --> 00:04:23.840] Helen, do you have a highlight?
[00:04:23.840 --> 00:04:41.440] Yeah, I enjoyed the hockey game, but I think for me, the walks that we took down to the waterfront or the kind of unstructured conversation time that we had where we weren't talking about a particular topic, just kind of like the dinner conversations and things that we had where we had a chance to, yeah, just sort of connect on a personal level.
[00:04:41.440 --> 00:04:45.840] Because I guess the purpose of a retreat is to build that connection, that personal connection.
[00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:53.200] And I think those kind of conversations and just sharing jokes and just talking about the day that we've had.
[00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:56.320] Yeah, it was just a nice way to kind of end each day, really.
[00:04:56.320 --> 00:04:57.600] Have we even said where we went?
[00:04:57.600 --> 00:05:16.480] We went to Montreal and we stayed in Old Montreal, which is this amazing part of Montreal that's right kind of along the water and is beautiful, beautiful architecture, but also we could like walk 30 seconds and we were along the water.
[00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:19.280] And yeah, we had some amazing walks there.
[00:05:19.280 --> 00:05:19.840] Agreed.
[00:05:19.840 --> 00:05:21.760] And the fall colors were out.
[00:05:21.760 --> 00:05:25.440] We had uh warm weather every day for October.
[00:05:25.440 --> 00:05:26.240] It was kind of perfect.
[00:05:26.720 --> 00:05:30.360] Montreal really rolled out the uh the welcome for us.
[00:05:29.760 --> 00:05:36.200] I don't know who picked that week, but whichever one of us picked that week picked the best weather and the best time of year.
[00:05:36.520 --> 00:05:47.720] Yeah, yeah, we bumped it a few times, and then I think we just ended up-I don't, I can't remember exactly how we ended up on that week, but um, yeah, that was great.
[00:05:47.960 --> 00:05:48.760] How about you, John?
[00:05:48.760 --> 00:05:51.160] Any highlights off the top of your head?
[00:05:51.160 --> 00:05:52.440] Yeah, I think similar to Helen.
[00:05:52.440 --> 00:06:01.000] I mean, I think it was you know, the meals we had together and just spending time that wasn't necessarily revolving around work.
[00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:17.640] And I mean, because we do that all day online, and you know, the calls we have remotely are around work and planning features, and it was just nice to connect with everyone in a more personal level and get to know each other a little better.
[00:06:17.640 --> 00:06:23.400] And yeah, the unstructured time and just hanging out.
[00:06:24.040 --> 00:06:33.160] Yeah, I think we all had this sense multiple times of just it's weird being a remote team.
[00:06:33.160 --> 00:06:54.040] You build up so much rapport online, you get together, and it's almost as if you've been friends for a long time, but there's this whole other dynamic of warmth and connection and kind of real special time together that's that that's hard to explain.
[00:06:54.040 --> 00:06:58.360] And is also, um, you definitely don't get it just in Slack.
[00:06:58.360 --> 00:07:11.160] Uh, just having time together, going for walks together, having moments where we're just sitting around, you know, maybe not talking, but spending time in each other's presence.
[00:07:11.160 --> 00:07:14.440] Really, it there's really something special about it.
[00:07:15.520 --> 00:07:20.880] And I think for our team, because we like each other so much, it was even just more special.
[00:07:20.880 --> 00:07:29.280] Like, this group is, yeah, I think we came away feeling like, wow, this group's pretty special.
[00:07:29.280 --> 00:07:29.760] Definitely.
[00:07:29.840 --> 00:07:30.400] Definitely.
[00:07:30.400 --> 00:07:30.800] Yeah.
[00:07:31.440 --> 00:07:36.080] My highlight was discovering that I'm the shortest member of the transistor team.
[00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:40.240] Here, you know, on Zoom.
[00:07:42.400 --> 00:07:45.280] Well, on Zoom, we're all the same height and then show up.
[00:07:45.280 --> 00:07:48.800] And, you know, Helen's taller than me.
[00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:50.560] Jason's quite a bit taller than me.
[00:07:50.880 --> 00:07:52.800] I've always known John was taller than me.
[00:07:52.800 --> 00:07:55.280] It was, you know, I'm okay with it.
[00:07:55.280 --> 00:08:02.800] But that was the first thing you notice right away whenever you meet remote team members is, oh, wow, this is how tall everyone is.
[00:08:02.800 --> 00:08:03.520] All right.
[00:08:04.240 --> 00:08:07.120] We probably have an above-average team height.
[00:08:07.760 --> 00:08:08.960] Yeah, we probably do.
[00:08:08.960 --> 00:08:09.760] We probably do.
[00:08:09.760 --> 00:08:10.960] It's right.
[00:08:12.160 --> 00:08:20.000] I keep referencing this fact that I'm not sure if it's true, which is that I'm 5'8 is the exact height of the average Canadian male.
[00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:21.440] But I don't know.
[00:08:21.440 --> 00:08:22.800] Don't look that up.
[00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:25.520] Just let me live in my world.
[00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:38.400] I think people will want to know how we planned and organized the retreat, our daily schedule, what parts of the treat the retreat worked well, what could we improve for next time.
[00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:42.960] Maybe it would be fun for us to go through our daily schedule.
[00:08:43.520 --> 00:08:45.440] This part was not super planned.
[00:08:45.600 --> 00:08:49.600] Our document had like a.m., afternoon, p.m.
[00:08:50.240 --> 00:08:54.880] But, you know, what was the daily cadence that we kind of fell into?
[00:08:55.000 --> 00:08:55.920] I'll try to run through it.
[00:08:55.920 --> 00:08:58.960] Yeah, I think it worked pretty well without really much planning.
[00:08:58.960 --> 00:09:00.280] It's sort of planned.
[00:08:59.920 --> 00:09:02.200] It sort of worked itself out, I think.
[00:09:03.480 --> 00:09:07.880] And everybody was coming from different time zones except Jason.
[00:09:08.520 --> 00:09:17.400] So everyone sort of had different, I don't know, different sleeping schedules maybe or levels of tiredness, depending on the time of day.
[00:09:17.400 --> 00:09:22.360] But I mean, generally, we would like everybody would wake up on their own.
[00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:23.960] We all had our own rooms.
[00:09:23.960 --> 00:09:27.160] I think we got breakfast in the room or downstairs.
[00:09:27.160 --> 00:09:30.840] A small breakfast, sometimes together, sometimes not.
[00:09:30.840 --> 00:09:35.160] And then we'd sort of just, as a group, text each other and say we're up.
[00:09:35.160 --> 00:09:39.560] And a couple people might go to get coffee next door if they need more.
[00:09:41.080 --> 00:09:44.360] A couple times people went for a run in the morning.
[00:09:44.920 --> 00:09:45.800] We were along the water.
[00:09:45.800 --> 00:09:48.120] There was a nice path to run on.
[00:09:48.920 --> 00:09:58.360] And then we sort of lazily met up in the penthouse area, which we had a big meeting area, a couple couches, some tables, around 10 in the morning.
[00:09:58.360 --> 00:09:58.920] Yeah.
[00:09:59.800 --> 00:10:09.240] Kind of did our own thing, did some work, customer support, you know, fixing some bugs or working on a feature slowly.
[00:10:09.560 --> 00:10:27.960] And I think we'd sort of casually sort of roll to the couches and start a group discussion for one or two hours about a particular topic we wanted to kind of get more in depth on that we didn't over Zoom or our calls.
[00:10:27.960 --> 00:10:31.080] And then at some point, we'd all just be like, oh, we should eat.
[00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:33.400] It's time for lunch.
[00:10:35.320 --> 00:10:39.400] We got some great recommendations from people in Montreal, by the way.
[00:10:39.720 --> 00:10:47.600] Just remembering some, I think the first lunch we took was, was the first lunch we took, that big three-course meal?
[00:10:47.600 --> 00:10:48.560] Yeah, I think so.
[00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:49.840] I think that was one day.
[00:10:44.600 --> 00:10:50.880] It was at Bouillon?
[00:10:51.040 --> 00:10:51.440] Yeah.
[00:10:51.440 --> 00:10:52.560] Bouillon Bilk.
[00:10:52.720 --> 00:10:53.440] Bouillon Bilk.
[00:10:53.600 --> 00:10:54.000] Yeah.
[00:10:55.120 --> 00:10:56.240] That was an incredible lunch.
[00:10:56.320 --> 00:10:59.040] It seemed like predominantly business lunches.
[00:10:59.040 --> 00:10:59.520] Yeah.
[00:10:59.520 --> 00:11:00.800] Yeah, that place there.
[00:11:00.800 --> 00:11:01.840] I mean, there was no dress code.
[00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:04.000] I don't know if we were underdressed, but it worked out.
[00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:06.000] Yeah, it did work good.
[00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:10.640] And then after lunch, we'd kind of hang out, do whatever we wanted, right?
[00:11:10.640 --> 00:11:13.040] We kind of walk around sometimes as a group.
[00:11:13.040 --> 00:11:13.440] Yeah.
[00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:14.320] Nap time.
[00:11:14.320 --> 00:11:21.440] Get some alone time, take a nap, maybe go for a run, walk around, find another coffee.
[00:11:21.440 --> 00:11:25.600] Yeah, Jason and I were in the afternoon run category.
[00:11:25.600 --> 00:11:26.080] Yeah.
[00:11:26.400 --> 00:11:26.800] Yep.
[00:11:26.800 --> 00:11:27.280] I did too.
[00:11:27.280 --> 00:11:28.080] I always had intent.
[00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:33.360] Well, I guess I ran once in the morning, but my intentions is always to run before everything, and then I just don't.
[00:11:33.680 --> 00:11:34.160] Yeah.
[00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:38.720] Yeah, and then in the evening, we'd have dinner again.
[00:11:38.720 --> 00:11:40.960] It was usually, I mean, we ate really well.
[00:11:40.960 --> 00:11:50.080] I think the, I don't want John to look at the expenses for this trip, but I felt like the money on dinner was well spent.
[00:11:50.400 --> 00:11:51.760] Oh, I looked.
[00:11:55.680 --> 00:12:00.800] And then usually after dinner, we'd come back and sometimes hang out in the penthouse.
[00:12:00.800 --> 00:12:02.640] You guys introduced me to Mr.
[00:12:02.640 --> 00:12:03.280] Robot.
[00:12:03.280 --> 00:12:04.640] We watched that all together.
[00:12:04.640 --> 00:12:09.200] Yeah, I think that was because you were talking about how much you liked the movie Hackers.
[00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:15.040] Yes, but I wanted to re-edit it without wanting to make a fan edit.
[00:12:16.480 --> 00:12:17.120] Yeah, Mr.
[00:12:17.120 --> 00:12:17.840] Robot's good.
[00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:20.720] I've since shown it to my kids since we got back.
[00:12:21.200 --> 00:12:21.920] We're on the Mr.
[00:12:21.920 --> 00:12:22.960] Robot train now.
[00:12:23.200 --> 00:12:25.360] Have you progressed beyond episode one?
[00:12:25.360 --> 00:12:31.560] No, because I showed them episode one, and then, and tonight's Friday, so movie night.
[00:12:31.560 --> 00:12:33.800] Well, we'll probably watch episode two.
[00:12:29.920 --> 00:12:34.440] Nice.
[00:12:35.400 --> 00:12:37.320] What were some of your thoughts about the schedule?
[00:12:37.800 --> 00:12:43.960] I really liked how we had, you know, you could get some work done in the morning.
[00:12:43.960 --> 00:12:47.480] And it's also nice just working alongside each other.
[00:12:47.480 --> 00:12:51.560] You know, you can see what Jason and John are chatting about back and forth.
[00:12:51.560 --> 00:12:54.120] Helen and I can talk about a ticket.
[00:12:54.120 --> 00:13:03.480] There's just like this nice, even if we're working on our own things, it's just nice to sometimes be in that open office mode, you know?
[00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:09.240] And then to have a focused discussion every day, I thought it was great.
[00:13:09.560 --> 00:13:15.240] We did have some discussions planned out that we knew we wanted to cover, which we did.
[00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:15.800] Yeah.
[00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:20.280] But before we get into that, any comments on the schedule, Helen or Jason?
[00:13:20.280 --> 00:13:22.040] Thoughts for other teams?
[00:13:22.040 --> 00:13:23.960] Should other people do that too?
[00:13:23.960 --> 00:13:25.000] Yeah, it worked really well.
[00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:27.000] It seemed to be quite flexible.
[00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:34.760] We had a little bit of structure in mind that we all knew we would be discussing a particular topic each day.
[00:13:34.760 --> 00:13:40.520] So we tried to kind of prioritize doing the sort of business as usual tasks first thing.
[00:13:40.520 --> 00:13:46.120] So with me coming from a different time zone, I was probably waking up a little bit earlier than usual.
[00:13:46.120 --> 00:13:56.760] So I had a little bit of time before we got together to sort some customer success things out, which meant we had the sort of morning to discuss remaining issues or topics.
[00:13:56.760 --> 00:14:06.200] And yeah, just sort of have an opportunity that allowed us to kind of come up with new ideas and talk about future features as well.
[00:14:06.200 --> 00:14:07.160] How about you, Jason?
[00:14:07.160 --> 00:14:08.680] What did you think of the schedule?
[00:14:08.840 --> 00:14:09.240] It was good.
[00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:12.600] I mean, originally we were talking about like a 10 o'clock start.
[00:14:12.760 --> 00:14:13.880] I'm like, that's pretty late.
[00:14:13.880 --> 00:14:16.720] But I settled into that pretty quickly.
[00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:25.760] I have a toddler at home, so the opportunity to not get woken up at some ungodly hour was pretty pleasant.
[00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:26.640] Yeah.
[00:14:27.280 --> 00:14:32.960] A couple days I took the opportunity to wander about, have a coffee, sit outside.
[00:14:33.920 --> 00:14:34.880] So that was nice.
[00:14:34.880 --> 00:14:55.520] I mean, it's a team retreat, but I think there's also this other thing about getting away from home as an individual that gives you time, you know, time to be by yourself in a different place, time to walk around a beautiful neighborhood or a beautiful setting, reflect on your life, reflect on work.
[00:14:56.240 --> 00:15:00.640] I liked having those times, you know?
[00:15:00.640 --> 00:15:02.160] Yeah, I think it worked really well.
[00:15:02.160 --> 00:15:11.920] I think, you know, for other teams too, if you're planning something like this, like definitely plan some downtime where people can either do things by themselves or do things in small groups.
[00:15:11.920 --> 00:15:21.840] Or it doesn't, I don't think it has to be planned like, you know, nine o'clock in the morning till nine o'clock at night is like a full schedule of stuff for the company.
[00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:23.840] Yeah, I'm so glad we didn't do that.
[00:15:23.840 --> 00:15:34.400] It just felt like it felt like every day we had some work time together, every day we had a discussion, and then every day we had a group activity, and that was perfect.
[00:15:34.400 --> 00:15:38.400] And there was time in between to do what you need to do.
[00:15:38.400 --> 00:15:41.840] As a team, we're quite light on kind of the number of meetings we have each week.
[00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:46.320] So really, we had kind of a week of all of those kind of meetings together.
[00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:55.120] And also, we had all of the possible celebrations that we would have had as a team together all in that one week as well, whether that would be sort of holidays or birthdays.
[00:15:55.120 --> 00:17:32.800] We've kind of condensed everything into kind of this one um very sort of intense week and having a bit of flexibility really helped with um yeah just us all have putting our opinion in and deciding what what things we'd like to to fit into the week yeah it's it's a good way to put it because you are celebrating too it's like this is the one time we get to get to get together and have a drink uh you know cheers each other just kind of celebrate what we've accomplished as a team uh up until that point so i i'm really glad we structured it that way i'd highly recommend a similar structure unless unless your team is completely different but for our vibe it worked well hey how come your team doesn't have their own podcast head over to transistor and use my coupon transistor.fm slash justin you'll get 15 off your first year of podcast hosting so we did have before we went we had some discussions that we did each day so the first day was a company update where we at financially um maybe look over our direction where are we headed what bigger things are we trying to accomplish in the company and in our lives we reviewed some of our values and then the next day we had a product priorities discussion this kind of bled through the whole the whole week um and actually that was most of it product because we we started with that product discussion and then that became kind of uh most of the discussion that week.
[00:17:32.800 --> 00:17:36.400] And then we also planned to talk about marketing and sales priorities.
[00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:50.000] I also put this category called open air discussions, which was just to make time for people to bring up issues, things they'd like to be more involved with, things they'd like to change, things that need clarification.
[00:17:50.160 --> 00:17:54.080] I think that was kind of sprinkled throughout the week.
[00:17:54.480 --> 00:17:57.200] For you folks, what came out of the discussions?
[00:17:57.440 --> 00:17:58.720] What was good about it?
[00:17:59.760 --> 00:18:02.640] What were some of the things that were helpful about it?
[00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:03.840] Comments about it?
[00:18:03.840 --> 00:18:11.920] I mean, for me, a thing I'm always trying to figure out is where we're headed as a company.
[00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:22.160] And there's a lot of ways to, there's a lot of, I guess, kind of end goals for that and to really understand.
[00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:25.520] Like, it's hard to, it's hard to hash that out in like small bits and pieces.
[00:18:25.520 --> 00:18:40.320] So like talking about that stuff deeply with everybody and just like picking up like the vibe on like how people are feeling about things and what they want to do and was really useful and a good way to understand where everybody's at.
[00:18:40.320 --> 00:18:48.960] And in high fidelity, like, yeah, I'd say a central issue at this point is where do we want this company to go?
[00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:54.080] Like what is, is there, is they, is there a longer-term objective?
[00:18:54.080 --> 00:19:07.520] And the central tension there is probably, you know, are we going to try to build this thing bigger in the sense that it could be acquired or bigger in the sense that we could, I don't know.
[00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:11.040] I think acquisition is like the main question.
[00:19:11.360 --> 00:19:25.280] And then on the other side of that tension is, especially for John and I, but I think for all of us, we, you know, we created this company to have a better life and to really have a calm life.
[00:19:25.280 --> 00:19:35.240] And yeah, I think figuring out those things when you have when you're in person, it's like one person can speak and then the other person can speak.
[00:19:35.400 --> 00:19:40.280] And there's just this high bandwidth kind of conversation.
[00:19:40.280 --> 00:19:43.800] And then later on, you're out for drinks and you can keep talking about it.
[00:19:43.800 --> 00:19:48.120] It can just kind of flow and leak out as we went along.
[00:19:48.760 --> 00:19:54.440] Do you feel like we do you feel like we made progress on that, on that, that tension at all?
[00:19:54.440 --> 00:20:01.560] Yeah, I think one thing that you do get to notice in person more so than when we're remotely is people's enthusiasm.
[00:20:01.560 --> 00:20:18.840] So when a particular topic comes up, I guess at the beginning of a retreat, perhaps people are perhaps a little bit starting to introduce themselves to each other and the sort of more detailed conversations perhaps come out later in the week.
[00:20:19.320 --> 00:20:28.360] But you kind of really pick up on the enthusiasm people have for particular topics, whether that's certain features or certain feature directions of the company.
[00:20:28.680 --> 00:20:33.000] And that makes a big difference to kind of feel that enthusiasm in real life.
[00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:49.480] Yeah, like Jason, Jason, while we were having this feature discussion, Jason brought up this idea of kind of how we're going to organize networks and higher level grouping features within Transistor.
[00:20:49.480 --> 00:20:59.480] And I think after you pitched that, Jason, there was like this kind of palpable enthusiasm about that particular direction.
[00:20:59.720 --> 00:21:00.920] Did you feel that too?
[00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:01.720] Yeah, for sure.
[00:21:01.720 --> 00:21:11.480] And it's like something we've briefly talked about before, but not like, I don't think anybody sort of like deeply thought about it.
[00:21:11.480 --> 00:21:17.920] So as soon as the idea was out there, everybody was kind of iterating on it and throwing out things that could be done with it.
[00:21:19.040 --> 00:21:27.840] And it felt like it had kind of become everybody's feature that we wanted to work on.
[00:21:27.840 --> 00:21:28.240] Yeah.
[00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:33.360] Yeah, the feature discussions, I think, worked really well in person.
[00:21:33.360 --> 00:21:42.240] Like we haven't, obviously we've never done that before, but it felt quite a bit different than us just planning things over Zoom.
[00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:49.200] And I don't know if that's because you're just in people's presence and you can pick up on, like Tylen said, the excitement a little easier.
[00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:51.040] But also, like, you know, you can keep talking.
[00:21:51.040 --> 00:21:53.120] We kept talking about those topics later in the day.
[00:21:53.120 --> 00:21:55.840] We didn't just stop necessarily.
[00:21:55.840 --> 00:21:57.520] So you can kind of keep the discussion going.
[00:21:57.520 --> 00:22:02.800] Whereas if you're remote, you know, you might throw some things in Slack, but it's not in person.
[00:22:02.800 --> 00:22:04.240] It's not quite as detailed.
[00:22:04.240 --> 00:22:10.640] And I think it can, like, the excitement can maybe fade away easier if you're not together.
[00:22:11.280 --> 00:22:13.760] So I really enjoyed the product discussions.
[00:22:13.760 --> 00:22:18.080] Like, I haven't had that in a while on a team.
[00:22:18.080 --> 00:22:22.240] You know, Justin, you and I, like, we got together in, was it January?
[00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:22.640] Yeah.
[00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:29.280] Yeah, we did some of that, and that felt similar, but it was quite a bit different with, you know, Helen and Jason there as well.
[00:22:29.280 --> 00:22:33.920] Kind of just spitballing and throwing ideas back and forth and like riffing on each other.
[00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:35.120] And oh, what about this?
[00:22:35.120 --> 00:22:45.360] And kind of get a better sense of how excited people are and just different ideas of how the feature could work.
[00:22:45.360 --> 00:22:48.400] And yeah, that was good.
[00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:50.800] And I think, I mean, there's a few things.
[00:22:50.800 --> 00:22:57.120] One, for me, I mean, I've been working remote and then I worked independent for quite a while.
[00:22:57.120 --> 00:23:07.080] So I think my last job where I was like in a room with people working through ideas was probably 2015 or 16, maybe.
[00:23:07.080 --> 00:23:08.440] I can't remember.
[00:23:09.400 --> 00:23:15.880] So it's been a while since I've been in a room, you know, kind of all working on something together.
[00:23:15.880 --> 00:23:25.640] And I mean, this old cynical version of me was like, ah, like all those meetings we used to do at those old companies were such a waste.
[00:23:25.640 --> 00:23:29.720] But this was like a new version of that that really felt good.
[00:23:29.960 --> 00:23:33.320] It was like, oh, wow, like we've been missing this.
[00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:47.720] And as we try to figure out, like, we're still like figuring out how to work together, it became so clear to me that for a remote team to really figure out how to work together, they need to spend some time together.
[00:23:47.960 --> 00:23:52.280] Because it kind of sifts out all of the rough edges.
[00:23:54.600 --> 00:23:59.240] At the end of it, you have a little bit better sense of how you can work.
[00:23:59.560 --> 00:24:12.600] And then we did, I can't remember if it was you, Helen, that recommended this, but we ended up changing our weekly meeting, our weekly Zoom meeting.
[00:24:12.600 --> 00:24:15.880] Do you want to describe what we changed, Helen?
[00:24:16.200 --> 00:24:32.200] So normally we would have a full meeting on a Thursday that would be centered around customer success, whether that would be feature requests or issues that we want to solve or things that are frustrating for customers that we want to improve upon.
[00:24:32.840 --> 00:24:41.960] And because we have this kind of sort of feature set that we want to work on as a team as well, we've decided to kind of split this meeting a little bit.
[00:24:41.960 --> 00:24:46.880] So we have a first part of customer success where we talk about the requests people have asked for.
[00:24:44.680 --> 00:25:02.160] And then we have the second part, which is more focused on a particular feature that we would like to dive deeper into as a team and sort of shape and move something forward.
[00:25:02.800 --> 00:25:14.560] I think sometimes the meetings we have contain a lot of ideas, whereas the structure that we've moved to now seems to be a little bit more laser focused on one particular thing.
[00:25:14.560 --> 00:25:16.720] We move things forward better.
[00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:25.760] And I think one of the benefits of the retreat is our remote product discussions since seem to flow a little bit better as well.
[00:25:27.120 --> 00:25:29.280] Yeah, that was a big improvement.
[00:25:29.280 --> 00:25:34.160] And even there's sometimes a disconnect.
[00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:38.000] Again, maybe this is because it's been a long time since I've worked on a team.
[00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:46.080] Maybe because it started out with just John and I, and it was just easy for us to just keep throwing things over the fence to each other.
[00:25:46.080 --> 00:26:06.240] But I think once we had two more people, once there were four of us, for me, there was a bit of a disconnect between like we've got ideas and then one, I think for John and Jason and everyone else too, we've got ideas and then how do those ideas become a practical plan to actually build something?
[00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:23.680] And we've been loosely following Basecamp's shape-up process, but often it felt like in Slack the feedback was, we really need to like nail down what are the first steps for us to start working on this thing.
[00:26:23.680 --> 00:26:30.120] Like how do we get this thing to the point where we can put it in our project management software and start working on it?
[00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:33.400] Would you agree with that, John, Jason, Helen?
[00:26:33.560 --> 00:26:37.720] Is that kind of a lot of ideas in Slack and the others?
[00:26:38.280 --> 00:26:46.920] I don't know if it's a lack of focus, but we have a lot of ideas, which is a good thing, but we don't necessarily tighten those up often enough, I think.
[00:26:46.920 --> 00:26:49.960] Some of it's sussing out our collective enthusiasm for it.
[00:26:49.960 --> 00:26:56.200] Like, we're such a small team and we have so many ideas that we would like to implement.
[00:26:56.200 --> 00:27:02.600] It's very difficult to figure out what we as a group want to tackle first.
[00:27:02.600 --> 00:27:05.560] So it sort of all gets muddied up.
[00:27:06.360 --> 00:27:15.640] But talking about these things in person, it was pretty clear which things folks had the most interest in, I think.
[00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:38.120] I had this out the other day, and I don't know if people agree with this, but if we were always in the same room, let's say we had an office and we worked together, I don't know if we'd probably have more meetings just because, maybe, but like I feel like these discussions worked really well in person because we knew we had a limited time.
[00:27:38.120 --> 00:27:38.680] Yeah, I don't know.
[00:27:38.680 --> 00:27:50.680] I just feel like if we were in the same office working together, like maybe because we think we would have all this time to get together and talk, we maybe would do it less efficiently or less well.
[00:27:50.920 --> 00:27:57.640] It just seemed like there was something special about it because it's not a frequent thing.
[00:27:57.640 --> 00:27:58.760] Yeah, I agree.
[00:27:58.760 --> 00:27:59.320] I agree.
[00:27:59.320 --> 00:28:08.440] I think it did almost feel like we could probably do something like that twice a year, but I definitely felt like we had the time.
[00:28:08.440 --> 00:28:10.840] We knew we only had a week together.
[00:28:10.840 --> 00:28:22.160] And it also became clear, like, we really only have time for a focused, one focused discussion a day if we're going to keep this kind of schedule.
[00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:30.640] And so every morning I was kind of like, okay, yeah, we got to move over to the couches and talk because that's going to be our moment to have that conversation.
[00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:33.760] And if we don't do it in the morning, it might not happen.
[00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:35.840] I thought that was great.
[00:28:35.840 --> 00:28:43.920] And the other thing I felt like was really great is we really hammered kind of these discussions out, all these feature ideas.
[00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:48.240] We got to what does an initial version look like?
[00:28:48.560 --> 00:28:51.760] And that seemed to really clarify things.
[00:28:51.760 --> 00:28:59.760] And when we got home, we put that initial version kind of in a shaping dock and then worked through it together just in Google Docs.
[00:28:59.760 --> 00:29:13.680] Yeah, I mean, we definitely didn't finalize these ideas by any means, but it was definitely a good jumping off point to start shaping it and try to figure out what, you know, how to build this thing in pieces or all at once if we need to or whatever.
[00:29:14.240 --> 00:29:20.800] So let's quickly go through which parts of the retreat worked well and what could we improve next time.
[00:29:21.440 --> 00:29:23.360] I thought the location was great.
[00:29:23.360 --> 00:29:25.600] People asked us why we chose Montreal.
[00:29:25.600 --> 00:29:30.080] I think just because it's one of the most unique cities in North America.
[00:29:30.320 --> 00:29:33.200] It was first time in Canada for Helen, is that right?
[00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:34.000] Yeah, that's right.
[00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:34.560] Yeah.
[00:29:34.560 --> 00:29:36.160] Yeah, good introduction to Canada.
[00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:40.640] I think part of it was it was like centrally located for all of us, sort of.
[00:29:41.040 --> 00:29:41.440] Right?
[00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:47.600] Like Helen's coming from the East, Justin's coming from the West, Jason and I are coming from the Midwest.
[00:29:47.600 --> 00:29:50.320] It was all like kind of in the middle.
[00:29:50.320 --> 00:29:55.040] Has anybody actually triangulated the central spot between?
[00:29:55.120 --> 00:30:01.000] I did put it in a, I did put it in a, they have these online map things like meet in the middle.
[00:29:59.760 --> 00:30:06.280] And it's roughly, you know, Helen's flight and my flight were roughly about the same.
[00:30:07.240 --> 00:30:11.320] You, you folks were more, well, Jason, you're East, and then John, you're more central.
[00:30:11.320 --> 00:30:23.800] So, yeah, John Young Fuch, I think from Banner Bear, said somebody should build just a tool that triangulates team retreats based on a number of factors.
[00:30:23.800 --> 00:30:40.280] So, not just distance, but you know, maybe, you know, cultural cities or attractions or, you know, time of year and maybe other events that are happening at the same time.
[00:30:40.440 --> 00:30:41.480] I think that's a cool idea.
[00:30:41.480 --> 00:30:46.120] I don't know if you can make a business out of it, but it'd be a cool little tool that we would definitely use.
[00:30:46.120 --> 00:30:47.720] Yeah, I thought, yeah, that worked really well.
[00:30:47.720 --> 00:30:49.160] I think the city was perfect.
[00:30:49.400 --> 00:30:51.880] I'd never been before, but I'd always heard good things.
[00:30:51.880 --> 00:30:54.840] And I would totally go back to Montreal and hang out there.
[00:30:55.160 --> 00:30:57.800] I'm sure there's tons left to explore.
[00:30:57.800 --> 00:30:58.360] Oh, man.
[00:30:58.360 --> 00:30:59.400] I definitely want to go back.
[00:30:59.400 --> 00:31:05.880] And every person that stayed, like Helen and I stayed a day later, and we went to that amazing light show in Notre Dame.
[00:31:05.880 --> 00:31:07.640] And then Helen stayed even later than me.
[00:31:07.640 --> 00:31:11.400] And then she hiked Mount Royale without us.
[00:31:11.400 --> 00:31:11.960] Yeah.
[00:31:13.240 --> 00:31:16.200] And made us jealous with her beautiful photo.
[00:31:16.200 --> 00:31:17.960] That was a nice photo.
[00:31:18.600 --> 00:31:25.560] Yeah, I couldn't leave without actually going to, you know, see the park and go to the mountain.
[00:31:25.720 --> 00:31:27.320] What did you folks think of the hotel?
[00:31:27.320 --> 00:31:32.040] We stayed at Epic Montreal, right in downtown, there.
[00:31:32.200 --> 00:31:33.400] Sorry, Old Montreal, there.
[00:31:33.400 --> 00:31:35.000] Yeah, it was a great hotel.
[00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:37.640] It was quite a small hotel, which was kind of good for us.
[00:31:37.640 --> 00:31:39.560] It kind of felt quite personal.
[00:31:39.560 --> 00:31:43.080] We were probably the biggest group that was staying there.
[00:31:44.120 --> 00:31:46.320] So, yeah, it was very, very nice.
[00:31:44.840 --> 00:31:48.720] I felt like we were the only people there some days.
[00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:53.920] I mean, there was one probably 10 rooms total in that place.
[00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:55.040] Maybe?
[00:31:55.040 --> 00:31:56.880] Yeah, there wasn't very many rooms.
[00:31:56.880 --> 00:31:58.800] It was nice and small.
[00:31:59.120 --> 00:32:12.800] And I think Carl Alexander from Mega Makers, the one that pointed me that direction, I just asked for recommendations for hotels, and he had a friend at that hotel.
[00:32:12.800 --> 00:32:15.280] The penthouse was pretty awesome.
[00:32:15.840 --> 00:32:20.960] It felt like it was in terms of a place for us to all hang out in.
[00:32:21.520 --> 00:32:22.800] Had some quirks.
[00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:26.080] It had some quirks.
[00:32:26.800 --> 00:32:34.080] But it was like the one quirk was that it has a pitched ceiling, right?
[00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:35.440] Is that the way you say it?
[00:32:35.440 --> 00:32:36.720] A pitched ceiling?
[00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:37.760] I think so.
[00:32:37.760 --> 00:32:38.160] Yeah.
[00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:42.960] So Jason had to walk sideways sometimes to get around there.
[00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:43.920] Which is fun.
[00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:46.320] It's not that unusual for me.
[00:32:46.320 --> 00:32:57.200] Yeah, it had a cool loft and dining table, kitchen, separate area for TV watching, separate area for like couches and hanging out.
[00:32:57.200 --> 00:33:00.560] So there's like some distinct areas.
[00:33:00.560 --> 00:33:05.600] And depending on our mood, sometimes we would all hang out in the kitchen just on the bar stools.
[00:33:05.600 --> 00:33:07.360] Sometimes we were watching TV.
[00:33:07.360 --> 00:33:09.440] Sometimes we were at the dining table.
[00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:14.400] Sometimes we were in the other kind of coffee place.
[00:33:14.800 --> 00:33:16.720] It had some outdoor balconies.
[00:33:16.720 --> 00:33:27.040] I think some of the recommendations that we had really helped to point us in the right direction, whether that was restaurants, places to visit, the hotel, things like that.
[00:33:27.040 --> 00:33:39.480] So having a city where we perhaps have connections with people who are already there was helpful and also to arrange like meetups and in-person coffee chats, things like that.
[00:33:39.480 --> 00:33:45.080] I tweeted about our trip quite a bit and asked folks if they were, you know, had recommendations.
[00:33:45.400 --> 00:33:53.880] I found, I emailed a list of customers who were in Montreal and said, hey, we're in Montreal for a week.
[00:33:53.880 --> 00:33:57.240] If you'd like to meet up, let's find a time.
[00:33:57.240 --> 00:34:03.000] And then I just sent them to a reform form that had a bunch of options.
[00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:10.200] So Helen and I met with a group of our customers at MedPlan, which is a communications agency in Montreal.
[00:34:10.200 --> 00:34:11.560] That was really helpful.
[00:34:11.560 --> 00:34:16.520] We came back fired up from listening to all their product feedback.
[00:34:16.520 --> 00:34:19.240] And then we did another meetup.
[00:34:19.240 --> 00:34:32.920] Jason and John had left, unfortunately, but we did one on Friday afternoon at a restaurant where just anybody on our list or anybody who knew that we were there could come and hang out.
[00:34:32.920 --> 00:34:36.840] So we had some customers come, we had some podcasters come, some indie hackers come.
[00:34:37.480 --> 00:34:39.000] That was really fun.
[00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:41.240] Yeah, I love that part personally.
[00:34:41.240 --> 00:34:48.920] I love doing a few customer things on top of the meetup, and we had the space to do it.
[00:34:48.920 --> 00:34:50.840] So yeah, that was great.
[00:34:50.840 --> 00:34:55.560] I think we probably want to go somewhere different every year, but that location was just amazing.
[00:34:55.560 --> 00:34:57.320] It really set a high bar.
[00:34:57.640 --> 00:35:09.720] I wonder, I have a very skewed view, I think, of what Montreal looks like because we're in this really old, beautiful area, and we saw virtually nothing outside of it.
[00:35:09.720 --> 00:35:13.160] So, next time you want to stay in the suburbs in an Airbnb, Jason?
[00:35:13.480 --> 00:35:13.960] That's right.
[00:35:13.960 --> 00:35:23.040] If we could find like a Radisson or no, the neighborhood we were in was great, and you know, old Montreal, but and we walked around a bit at night.
[00:35:23.040 --> 00:35:28.640] We went to a concert one night and kind of walked back and walked around a different part of town.
[00:35:29.360 --> 00:35:39.280] And I think the last night we were there, we had dinner in what is actually like a pretty cool neighbor, pretty cool neighborhood, but we didn't really get to see it because it was evening.
[00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:42.400] We didn't really walk around, but apparently, that's a really cool part of town.
[00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:49.840] Yeah, I think we could have even stayed in that in Le Plateau and had a really good time.
[00:35:50.880 --> 00:36:01.200] I think actually in this case, not every city's like this, but in this case, it was actually nice not staying at an Airbnb.
[00:36:01.360 --> 00:36:03.200] It was easy to check in.
[00:36:03.200 --> 00:36:06.080] It was easy for everybody to get their own room.
[00:36:07.120 --> 00:36:10.160] We really did have privacy as a team, too.
[00:36:10.160 --> 00:36:12.880] Like, each of us had our own room we could go to.
[00:36:13.040 --> 00:36:14.960] It felt like that was money well spent.
[00:36:14.960 --> 00:36:21.120] Yeah, I really enjoyed having like a shared space and then our own, our own separate rooms.
[00:36:21.120 --> 00:36:23.040] Yeah, yeah, I thought that was great.
[00:36:23.040 --> 00:36:27.440] The meals together, you know, that was great.
[00:36:27.440 --> 00:36:30.080] We did, like we already said, lunch and dinners.
[00:36:30.080 --> 00:36:33.760] We had just some awesome meals together.
[00:36:33.760 --> 00:36:35.520] And I really liked the activities.
[00:36:35.520 --> 00:36:37.760] This kind of happened organically.
[00:36:38.080 --> 00:36:41.920] This is something I wouldn't naturally think of, but you folks did.
[00:36:41.920 --> 00:36:44.160] So Helen was like, oh, we should go see a hockey game.
[00:36:44.160 --> 00:36:48.320] And she just booked the tickets and got it all done.
[00:36:48.320 --> 00:36:51.520] John was like, what's the name of that band again?
[00:36:51.520 --> 00:36:53.680] It's Motorat.
[00:36:53.680 --> 00:36:54.640] Motorat, yeah.
[00:36:54.640 --> 00:36:58.000] So you were like, you just looked up to see what bands were playing.
[00:36:58.000 --> 00:37:01.000] Yeah, it was like randomly found that, like, oh, this band's in town.
[00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:02.920] Cool, they're awesome.
[00:37:02.920 --> 00:37:05.640] Maybe we, maybe, if everyone's interested, we should go.
[00:36:59.840 --> 00:37:06.840] Yeah, it was super fun.
[00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:11.720] Like, I'd never even heard them before, but it was fun going to that concert together.
[00:37:11.720 --> 00:37:14.040] The venue is really neat.
[00:37:14.600 --> 00:37:15.480] What else did we do?
[00:37:15.480 --> 00:37:17.400] We did the boat ride.
[00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:20.600] I loved the boat ride.
[00:37:20.920 --> 00:37:23.080] That was one of my highlights.
[00:37:23.080 --> 00:37:30.600] Yeah, that was kind of we were trying to find like one of those boats that was like more of a tour boat, but we ended up on like the public transit boat.
[00:37:30.600 --> 00:37:32.120] Yeah, on the ferry.
[00:37:32.440 --> 00:37:33.480] Yeah, the ferry.
[00:37:33.480 --> 00:37:34.440] It was great there.
[00:37:34.440 --> 00:37:35.480] It was great, yeah.
[00:37:35.480 --> 00:37:36.600] That thing was fast.
[00:37:36.600 --> 00:37:37.960] It was a really fast boat.
[00:37:37.960 --> 00:37:39.400] Yeah, it was super fast.
[00:37:39.560 --> 00:37:43.400] I got some great like sunset photos on the way back on the water.
[00:37:43.400 --> 00:37:45.400] Justin got to practice his French.
[00:37:45.400 --> 00:37:45.880] Oh, yeah.
[00:37:45.880 --> 00:37:50.760] I cornered this old French couple and just wouldn't let them, I wouldn't leave them alone.
[00:37:50.920 --> 00:37:53.000] Just kept practicing my French.
[00:37:53.000 --> 00:38:02.840] I got an education in French politics, French history, English-French relations, East-West relations.
[00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:04.840] We covered it all.
[00:38:05.800 --> 00:38:12.840] The other thing that worked well is I'm so glad that everybody took time to take photos.
[00:38:13.160 --> 00:38:18.920] We have so many great photos that we shared with each other in a shared album.
[00:38:18.920 --> 00:38:27.000] And especially, I mean, I'm built like this because I'm a dad, but I was trying to be deliberate in saying, oh, let's get a photo taken.
[00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:30.520] And if we can find someone to take a picture for us, let's do that.
[00:38:30.520 --> 00:38:35.800] And so we got a few, I mean, like 70% of those photos are not great.
[00:38:35.800 --> 00:38:37.240] And then a few worked out.
[00:38:37.240 --> 00:38:42.200] And we just got this great photo of us with the Ferris wheel behind us and all the fall colors.
[00:38:42.200 --> 00:38:46.480] And we just look fucking golden out there.
[00:38:46.480 --> 00:38:48.480] That lady, that lady was a pro.
[00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:49.040] Total pro.
[00:38:49.280 --> 00:38:49.520] Yeah.
[00:38:44.840 --> 00:38:52.160] That lady we asked was a pro.
[00:38:53.680 --> 00:38:55.360] I really liked that part.
[00:38:55.360 --> 00:38:58.480] And everybody contributed by taking photos.
[00:38:58.480 --> 00:39:00.640] And I thought that was great.
[00:39:00.640 --> 00:39:16.240] I do think at one point, next retreat, I want to get a professional photographer to come in and take some photos because those assets of us hanging out or doing work or having a discussion are just so valuable from a marketing perspective.
[00:39:16.560 --> 00:39:21.440] So valuable for even just, we could also do headshots then.
[00:39:21.680 --> 00:39:42.320] I think having a professional photographer would have been a nice addition and probably not that much more money just to have someone come in for to do some nice, really nice photos that we can use in press releases and blog posts and tweets and also for us to all have uniform headshots if we wanted.
[00:39:43.040 --> 00:39:45.200] Yeah, I thought that would be good too.
[00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:51.760] Any other thoughts on what we could improve for next time or other advice we would give to teams to close this out?
[00:39:51.760 --> 00:40:02.320] I guess I think one of the things that really worked well was obviously you, Justin, you kind of led the group in terms of a lot of the product discussions.
[00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:12.160] I guess if you have a larger team, it might be nice to perhaps rotate who that responsibility falls to each day.
[00:40:12.720 --> 00:40:29.200] So there's an opportunity for like each person to step up and take ownership of a particular feature or a particular talk for the day so that you can also enjoy being part of those discussions without having to lead them all the time.
[00:40:29.200 --> 00:40:31.160] Oh, we should do that next time.
[00:40:31.160 --> 00:40:32.920] We should just have someone lead every day.
[00:40:32.920 --> 00:40:35.720] You need to force us into the leadership position.
[00:40:29.840 --> 00:40:36.200] Yeah.
[00:40:36.760 --> 00:40:37.640] Exactly.
[00:40:37.640 --> 00:40:38.840] Exactly.
[00:40:38.840 --> 00:40:42.760] And I'm going to force you guys all to go to organize one meetup.
[00:40:42.760 --> 00:40:44.520] And I'm going to force you all to.
[00:40:47.400 --> 00:40:51.320] I was definitely, it felt like I was definitely the one extrovert in the group.
[00:40:51.800 --> 00:40:55.960] We have a very introverted group.
[00:40:58.520 --> 00:41:03.960] Anything else for other teams, advice or things that we should improve on next time?
[00:41:03.960 --> 00:41:14.920] It's okay for us to get a little bit, you know, you can be a little bit dangerous and reveal something that you didn't think worked well or that we should do next time.
[00:41:14.920 --> 00:41:17.720] I honestly can't think of anything that didn't work well.
[00:41:17.720 --> 00:41:31.640] I mean, you know, it might be nice next time to like change up the venue to maybe a smaller city or outdoor activities or which it would be totally different.
[00:41:31.880 --> 00:41:33.400] You're not going to go out to restaurants every day.
[00:41:33.480 --> 00:41:35.960] You're not going to do this and that, but like, yeah.
[00:41:36.120 --> 00:41:41.240] Could be like, we'll go on some hikes or like hang out on a boat on a blake or, you know.
[00:41:41.240 --> 00:41:41.640] Yeah.
[00:41:42.120 --> 00:41:44.120] Yeah, let's do the whole thing on a boat.
[00:41:44.440 --> 00:41:45.080] Yeah.
[00:41:47.880 --> 00:41:49.320] What kind of boat are you thinking of, John?
[00:41:49.320 --> 00:41:52.760] Are you thinking of like a sailboat or a houseboat or a cruise ship?
[00:41:52.760 --> 00:41:54.760] Are we going to go cruising next time?
[00:41:54.760 --> 00:41:55.400] I don't know.
[00:41:55.480 --> 00:41:56.680] Could do a houseboat.
[00:41:57.080 --> 00:41:58.680] It might get a little cramped.
[00:41:59.000 --> 00:41:59.640] Yeah.
[00:41:59.640 --> 00:42:00.200] Yeah.
[00:42:01.480 --> 00:42:02.360] Yeah, I agree.
[00:42:02.360 --> 00:42:04.280] I think it'd be fun to mix up the venue.
[00:42:04.280 --> 00:42:13.000] Marie Poulin and her team did their retreat at the same time in Banff, and I think they had somebody cook the whole time.
[00:42:13.960 --> 00:42:18.720] And so they didn't go out for meals as much, but they had really amazing meals inside.
[00:42:19.040 --> 00:42:23.520] And then they had all the hiking and other things to do outside.
[00:42:23.520 --> 00:42:25.360] Yeah, I think that'd be great.
[00:42:25.600 --> 00:42:29.600] If you have questions about the team retreat we didn't cover, reach out to us on Twitter.
[00:42:29.600 --> 00:42:32.800] All of our Twitter handles are in this episode.
[00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:38.320] You can also, if you're on the web, look at our people profiles, which is a new feature we just released.
[00:42:38.320 --> 00:42:46.880] Every transistor customer gets to set up hosts and guests, and they get a photo, they get a link, they get a social media link.
[00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:51.120] So if you're looking for any of our Twitter handles, they're all there.
[00:42:51.120 --> 00:42:54.000] SAS.transistor.fm.
[00:42:54.320 --> 00:43:06.080] John Buddha, we have some people to thank who have been supporting us for such a long time, even when we don't release an episode every week or every month, even.
[00:43:06.560 --> 00:43:07.840] Big shout outs to these people.
[00:43:07.840 --> 00:43:09.680] John, do you want to go through the list?
[00:43:09.680 --> 00:43:11.360] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:43:12.320 --> 00:43:13.760] Thanks to all of our supporters.
[00:43:13.760 --> 00:43:40.480] We have Jason Charnes, Michael Davis from recruitkit.com.au, Marcel Folle from WeAreBold.af, Alex Payne, Bill Kondo, Anton Zorin from Prodcamp.com, Harris Kenny from the Intro to CRM podcast, Oleg Kulik, Ethan Gunderson, Ward Sandler from Memberspace, Russell Brown from Fotivo.com.
[00:43:40.640 --> 00:43:41.680] That's right, yep.
[00:43:41.680 --> 00:43:54.720] Noah Prale, Colin Gray, Austin Lovelace, Michael Sitver, Paul Jarvis, and Jack Ellis from Fathom, my brother Dan Buddha, Darby Frey, Adam DeVander, Dave Junta.
[00:43:55.040 --> 00:44:00.360] Junta, who actually, I forgot, he's got his own people profile.
[00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:04.200] If you go to sass.transistor.fm slash people, there's Dave Junta.
[00:43:59.840 --> 00:44:05.320] You can see what he looks like.
[00:44:05.640 --> 00:44:09.960] You can go and click on his profile, hear the episode he was in.
[00:44:10.280 --> 00:44:12.600] We got to have Junta back, I think, on the show.
[00:44:12.600 --> 00:44:13.240] Absolutely.
[00:44:13.240 --> 00:44:13.960] We should.
[00:44:13.960 --> 00:44:14.440] Yeah.
[00:44:14.760 --> 00:44:21.160] And we have Kyle Fox from getrewardful.com and Simon and Vulcan.
[00:44:21.160 --> 00:44:22.200] Can you explain this one?
[00:44:22.440 --> 00:44:23.560] This looks different to me.
[00:44:23.560 --> 00:44:31.320] Yeah, this is a new bootstrapper podcast Simon and Vulcan are doing ship sassfaster.com.
[00:44:31.640 --> 00:44:37.560] Worth listening to if you like the bootstrappers talking to bootstrappers every week format.
[00:44:37.720 --> 00:44:41.640] It kind of feels like an early build your SAS podcast.
[00:44:42.200 --> 00:44:46.040] Yeah, worth checking out shipsfaster.com.
[00:44:46.360 --> 00:44:47.880] Thanks everyone for listening.
[00:44:47.880 --> 00:44:51.960] Thanks to Jason, Helen, John for being here.
[00:44:51.960 --> 00:44:54.040] And we'll see you next time we record an episode.
[00:44:54.040 --> 00:44:55.320] Glad we got this one out.
[00:44:55.320 --> 00:44:56.840] Talk to you later.
[00:45:12.840 --> 00:45:13.800] Beauty.
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