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[00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:03.360] This podcast is hosted by Transistor.fm.
[00:00:05.280 --> 00:00:06.720] Bonjour Baptiste.
[00:00:06.720 --> 00:00:07.760] Merci Bouco.
[00:00:07.840 --> 00:00:08.720] Thank you very much.
[00:00:08.720 --> 00:00:09.600] Come on sava.
[00:00:09.920 --> 00:00:10.720] Travien.
[00:00:10.880 --> 00:00:11.360] Thank you.
[00:00:11.600 --> 00:00:12.480] Thanks a lot.
[00:00:12.480 --> 00:00:13.280] Nice.
[00:00:17.520 --> 00:00:18.400] Absolutely.
[00:00:18.640 --> 00:00:20.240] Shall we continue in French or French?
[00:00:25.200 --> 00:00:29.760] Je pas be de opportunité.
[00:00:29.760 --> 00:00:31.600] Yeah, your French is very good.
[00:00:31.600 --> 00:01:46.200] It's it is still like ten or like a hundred times better than all the all the American people watching Emily in Paris on Netflix and saying Jadot le turefel Jadot le Louvre oh yeah it's how we say it how we say it yeah levre uh vous le vous couché avec more hundred times better you can speak I'm glad I'm glad I got a little chance hey welcome to build your SAS this is the behind the scenes story of building web apps in 2022 bootstrapping startups building your own thing I'm Justin Jackson and one of the co-founders of transistor.fm today on the show I have Baptiste Jamet who is the co-founder of Crisp crisp.im if you want to check it out they do live chat customer support ticket software help desk software.
[00:01:46.200 --> 00:01:50.760] They compete with massive companies, Zendesk, Help Scout, Intercom.
[00:01:50.760 --> 00:02:02.840] And they're seriously one of the most impressive product companies I've come across it the product itself is super high quality, but the cost to customers, the price is really affordable.
[00:01:59.680 --> 00:02:08.280] We switched to them from Kayako, and we just can't believe how good it is.
[00:02:08.600 --> 00:02:12.120] So I think you're going to get a ton out of this conversation.
[00:02:12.120 --> 00:02:26.040] It's one of a lot of people might not know Baptiste or might not have heard of Crisp, but they are seriously impressive in terms of how profitable they are, how many customers they serve, and what they've been able to achieve.
[00:02:26.040 --> 00:02:29.480] They're located in Nantes, France.
[00:02:29.720 --> 00:02:31.320] Yeah, let's get into this conversation.
[00:02:31.320 --> 00:02:32.280] It's great.
[00:02:32.280 --> 00:02:38.280] So CRISP is basically, we use it as customer support messaging.
[00:02:38.280 --> 00:02:43.960] You have a live chat widget, and then it also has an email component.
[00:02:43.960 --> 00:02:53.160] So you can email support at transistor and it goes into the live chat interface and we can respond to those emails in the same interface.
[00:02:53.160 --> 00:02:56.120] And then it has a ton more.
[00:02:56.440 --> 00:02:58.200] But how did it get started?
[00:02:59.240 --> 00:03:01.560] Did you and your co-founder know each other before?
[00:03:01.560 --> 00:03:04.600] What was the kind of beginning of CRISP?
[00:03:04.840 --> 00:03:05.480] Yeah.
[00:03:05.720 --> 00:03:11.480] Basically, before doing CRISP, we did like several side projects.
[00:03:11.480 --> 00:03:15.400] I mean, I wouldn't say startups, but really side projects.
[00:03:16.680 --> 00:03:20.600] He and I, we started coding like when we were teenagers.
[00:03:20.600 --> 00:03:21.160] Yeah.
[00:03:21.160 --> 00:03:29.640] I started coding when I was 12, doing some video games, and he started coding when he was 16.
[00:03:29.640 --> 00:03:33.080] And he did like a messaging platform.
[00:03:33.080 --> 00:03:37.320] It was like an open source Facebook okay basically.
[00:03:38.760 --> 00:03:42.680] And so we did that when we were teenagers.
[00:03:42.680 --> 00:05:21.880] Then we did some projects that worked some other failed and and basically we met each other at in the in computer science school we were apprentices so we worked in big French companies I used to work at Orange which is the biggest French ISP and he used to work at Ericsson telecom company and basically we were we got bored of our jobs I mean we were we worked in big companies and we felt okay basic customer support and messaging is the core of any company since like thousands of years I mean since like when you think about customer support and when you when you go to the same restaurant every time it's because you have a nice feeling with the restaurant the people who work there and it's the same for any kind of businesses and we felt okay something is happening in the startup ecosystem more and more companies gonna create be created in the next years so we need to have a tool allowing for those companies to get in touch with their customers something which is super cheap reliable and having like a nice feeling we wanted to create like the the the apple of the the customer support the apple of customer support so we we tried doing that by using something really minimalistic.
[00:05:21.880 --> 00:05:28.120] So the first CRISP version was messaging, like a simple chat widget.
[00:05:28.680 --> 00:05:30.760] Just a simple chat widget.
[00:05:31.720 --> 00:05:43.320] No file upload, no emojis, just the core was text messaging with an interface to reply to all the customer queries.
[00:05:43.320 --> 00:05:43.800] Yes.
[00:05:44.120 --> 00:05:47.960] And a chat widget and something crazy minimalistic.
[00:05:47.960 --> 00:05:48.680] You must have been quite...
[00:05:48.680 --> 00:05:50.760] So were you quite young when you were figuring all this out?
[00:05:50.760 --> 00:05:56.760] Were you still in university or you were still in, you were just working your first jobs out of university?
[00:05:56.760 --> 00:06:00.600] So we were like 21 or 22, something like that.
[00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:02.120] So you're quite young.
[00:06:02.120 --> 00:06:04.360] And this is in 2015.
[00:06:04.360 --> 00:06:05.960] Yeah, 2015.
[00:06:05.960 --> 00:06:08.200] Yeah, and so we did that.
[00:06:08.200 --> 00:06:14.360] So we did CRISP just because we really felt that we had to do this.
[00:06:14.920 --> 00:06:20.760] And we didn't like had any vision, like 10 years vision.
[00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:25.960] I mean, I didn't know what SAS was about.
[00:06:25.960 --> 00:06:30.280] I mean, the SAS and software as a service.
[00:06:30.920 --> 00:06:35.480] An investor told me, okay, so CRISP is a SaaS software, right?
[00:06:35.800 --> 00:06:37.240] SAS what?
[00:06:37.480 --> 00:06:38.920] I didn't know that.
[00:06:38.920 --> 00:06:42.440] I didn't know about all the competition, etc.
[00:06:42.440 --> 00:06:45.080] I mean, we wanted to do CRISP, and we did CRISP.
[00:06:45.080 --> 00:06:52.840] And I think because of all our previous experiences, I mean, we did different messaging software before.
[00:06:52.840 --> 00:06:57.800] So by doing CRISP, we knew what we had to do, then the kind of features.
[00:06:57.800 --> 00:07:01.400] I mean, we knew how to do a great chat software.
[00:07:01.400 --> 00:07:02.920] So it saved us a lot of time.
[00:07:03.080 --> 00:07:06.440] Because you'd built some chat software before.
[00:07:06.440 --> 00:07:07.000] Yeah, exactly.
[00:07:07.000 --> 00:07:07.320] Yeah.
[00:07:08.200 --> 00:07:24.480] I'm really curious about, as a couple of young guys in France, how aware were you of the startup ecosystem of, like you said, you hadn't heard of SAS before, but had you heard of, like, had you heard of Intercom?
[00:07:24.480 --> 00:07:26.560] Had you heard of any of that?
[00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:28.080] Were you reading TechCrunch?
[00:07:28.080 --> 00:07:31.040] I wasn't reading TechCrunch basically.
[00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:36.800] So obviously I knew some competitors, but not Intercom.
[00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:39.920] When we started CRISP, I didn't know about Intercom at all.
[00:07:39.920 --> 00:07:44.880] I mean, we didn't do some benchmark or whatever.
[00:07:44.880 --> 00:07:45.760] We did CRISP.
[00:07:45.760 --> 00:07:50.400] I mean, we did CRISP without thinking about all the rest.
[00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:53.040] We did something opinionated.
[00:07:53.040 --> 00:08:02.480] And about the French ecosystem, I think it really started like in 2012.
[00:08:04.400 --> 00:08:09.280] We started to have a strong ecosystem, some podcasts in French.
[00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:30.320] So we had like a startup called the Family, who basically translated all the articles from Polgram and translated everything in French and did some French podcasts about all the YC, etc.
[00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:40.800] So thanks to that, we had all the basically all the knowledge from the Silicon Valley, but in a French way.
[00:08:40.800 --> 00:08:42.240] And it helped a lot.
[00:08:42.640 --> 00:08:45.600] All the French people building startups.
[00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:48.880] Because we came from nowhere.
[00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:58.880] And now we have a pretty strong ecosystem in France with like many, many, many different startups being created.
[00:08:59.360 --> 00:09:03.720] And now I think France is the biggest startup ecosystem in Europe.
[00:09:03.960 --> 00:09:04.600] Oh, really?
[00:09:04.840 --> 00:09:07.480] In fact, Brexit helped us a lot.
[00:09:07.960 --> 00:09:23.400] Because in a sense, that because UK is no longer a part of EU, because we were like the second startup ecosystem, we are now the first one.
[00:09:23.400 --> 00:09:24.040] Wow.
[00:09:24.040 --> 00:09:25.560] Thanks to Brexit.
[00:09:25.560 --> 00:09:29.320] But yeah, still, it's still a pretty big ecosystem.
[00:09:29.320 --> 00:09:37.080] And okay, and so the family was like an accelerator, like a tech accelerator, similar to Y Combinator?
[00:09:37.160 --> 00:09:39.240] Yeah, yeah, it was like the French YC.
[00:09:39.320 --> 00:09:40.840] And did you participate in that?
[00:09:40.840 --> 00:09:45.240] Did you end up taking funding or did you self-fund CRISP?
[00:09:45.240 --> 00:09:47.560] So we self-funded CRISP.
[00:09:47.880 --> 00:09:51.640] So CRISP is still like fully bootstrapped and self-funded.
[00:09:52.040 --> 00:09:57.800] And how did you do that as a couple of guys in their 20s, fresh out of university?
[00:09:57.800 --> 00:10:08.040] So in fact, it was not crazy complicated because what's cool building a startup when you're a student is you know you don't have any wife, you don't have any kids, you don't have any house.
[00:10:08.040 --> 00:10:08.360] Yes.
[00:10:08.600 --> 00:10:10.680] So your life is pretty cheap.
[00:10:10.920 --> 00:10:18.840] So being Raman profitable, I mean, you don't need so much money to be like in life.
[00:10:18.840 --> 00:10:23.320] I mean, to succeed a company when you started, you're a student.
[00:10:23.320 --> 00:10:25.400] It's not crazy complicated.
[00:10:25.400 --> 00:10:31.240] So using like $100, you can stay alive and it's what we did.
[00:10:31.480 --> 00:10:32.120] It's what we did.
[00:10:32.920 --> 00:10:35.480] What infrastructure did you use when you started?
[00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:37.480] Were you on Amazon Web Services?
[00:10:37.480 --> 00:10:38.040] Were you...
[00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:39.160] No, no, no.
[00:10:39.640 --> 00:10:45.600] So Adibo VS is like too expensive, and the value for the money is pretty bad.
[00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:56.320] So we did some benchmarks and we figured out that digital auction servers were like the best value for the money.
[00:10:56.320 --> 00:11:04.400] I mean, the servers were back in 2015 were like 10 times more efficient.
[00:11:04.720 --> 00:11:11.360] So for like five bucks per month, you can like host the entire CRISP infrastructure.
[00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:12.160] Wow.
[00:11:12.400 --> 00:11:20.240] It's not possible anymore, but we try to optimize everything because we were students.
[00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:23.200] We really wanted to have a freemium model.
[00:11:23.520 --> 00:11:33.040] We wanted to have a free plan because we thought it could give us a lot of attraction, users.
[00:11:33.040 --> 00:11:36.960] So we used the free plan as a marketing.
[00:11:37.280 --> 00:11:43.760] And so we had to optimize everything and the servers, etc.
[00:11:43.920 --> 00:11:46.080] Everything was super optimized.
[00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:54.480] So basically, it was easy to get started because hosting CRISP costed us like 50 euros per month, something like that.
[00:11:54.800 --> 00:11:55.360] Yeah.
[00:11:55.680 --> 00:11:59.040] And we knew how to create CRISPR.
[00:11:59.040 --> 00:12:01.760] I mean, technically, how to create CRISP.
[00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:07.040] We tried to do the marketing ourselves, customer support.
[00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:13.440] So during like one year and a half, we didn't have any employees, etc.
[00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:15.120] Pretty lean.
[00:12:15.120 --> 00:12:22.600] And we started to be profitable just being Valerie and I doing this.
[00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:23.760] Just the two of you.
[00:12:23.840 --> 00:12:26.720] I mean, what's interesting is you had this insight.
[00:12:27.040 --> 00:12:37.160] Even having not heard of Intercom, you had this insight that customer messaging was going to be big, that every business needs some form of messaging.
[00:12:37.480 --> 00:12:58.200] And you said maybe you noticed this at restaurants, like restaurants with good customer service, restaurants that, you know, but was that like, were you thinking of, when you were observing these things, were you thinking of a restaurant that answers the phone, or you're just thinking of a restaurant that onboards clients into the restaurant itself?
[00:12:58.200 --> 00:13:02.920] What were your observations that made you feel like this was worth pursuing?
[00:13:02.920 --> 00:13:16.520] So when we started CRISP, we felt, okay, maybe we could sell CRISP to restaurants, actually, having something handling email, phone calls, chat, et cetera.
[00:13:16.520 --> 00:13:21.800] And messaging chat was just the first step of this plan.
[00:13:21.800 --> 00:13:33.880] And when we started with just chat, the market was so huge that we had to do so many things, so many features, so many stuff was going on.
[00:13:33.880 --> 00:13:37.800] So going to chat took us a lot of time.
[00:13:37.800 --> 00:13:41.400] But because the market is so big.
[00:13:42.520 --> 00:13:52.120] And then, in fact, in terms of messaging, and in terms of customers, you had two kind of customers.
[00:13:52.120 --> 00:14:01.480] The customers who phone companies first, and the customers who want asynchronous messaging.
[00:14:01.480 --> 00:14:14.320] So nowadays, most of the people who are under like 35, maybe under 40, were born with internet and iPhones, etc.
[00:14:15.280 --> 00:14:19.680] So for them, they prefer to chat with companies.
[00:14:14.120 --> 00:14:20.880] It's quite a thing for them.
[00:14:21.040 --> 00:14:22.880] They want to chat with companies.
[00:14:22.880 --> 00:14:25.200] They don't want to do phone calls, etc.
[00:14:25.200 --> 00:14:25.760] That's right.
[00:14:25.760 --> 00:14:29.280] Like if they'll avoid, they'll do anything but getting on the phone.
[00:14:29.280 --> 00:14:30.720] Like, don't make me call.
[00:14:30.720 --> 00:14:34.800] Yeah, they're scared of taking phone calls.
[00:14:34.800 --> 00:14:36.160] But boomers love it.
[00:14:37.680 --> 00:14:38.800] Yeah, exactly.
[00:14:38.960 --> 00:14:44.240] And the open is the opposite, the boomers loved phone calls.
[00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:46.160] And so you had this insight.
[00:14:46.160 --> 00:14:47.680] How did you know the market was big?
[00:14:47.680 --> 00:14:52.160] Like you put CRISP out and you just started seeing traction right away?
[00:14:52.160 --> 00:14:57.920] What were the indicators that the market was big, that there was a lot of potential customers there?
[00:14:57.920 --> 00:15:04.800] And when you say the market is big, were you still thinking of restaurants or were you thinking of just any company on the internet?
[00:15:04.800 --> 00:15:10.640] So basically, when we started CRISP, we thought we don't know anything about the market.
[00:15:10.960 --> 00:15:17.200] So to get started, we're going to try with solopronters, freelancers.
[00:15:17.520 --> 00:15:20.960] We're going to try using this market first.
[00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:25.840] And then we're going to collect all their feedback and we're going to upmarket.
[00:15:25.840 --> 00:15:30.640] So small startups, SMBs, and then bigger SMBs.
[00:15:30.640 --> 00:15:32.080] And it's what we did.
[00:15:32.080 --> 00:15:37.840] Every try we upmarket and now we are selling to enterprise customers.
[00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:45.520] So when we started CRISP, we had maybe 10 initial users and we focused on those 10 initial users.
[00:15:45.520 --> 00:15:48.800] Those users gave us a lot of different feedback.
[00:15:49.680 --> 00:15:56.560] So rather than focusing on traction acquisition, we just focused on retention.
[00:15:56.560 --> 00:15:57.200] Got it.
[00:15:57.520 --> 00:16:00.000] To make those 10 customers happy.
[00:16:01.160 --> 00:16:14.360] And what we figured out is that those 10 users talked about CRISP to other companies, and we started to have 15 users, then 20, then 50, 100.
[00:16:14.680 --> 00:16:19.320] And then one of those initial users featured us on ProductHunt.
[00:16:19.320 --> 00:16:20.120] Okay, yeah.
[00:16:20.440 --> 00:16:24.920] And back, so in 2015, ProductHunt was a closed community.
[00:16:24.920 --> 00:16:28.760] And the guy didn't tell us about that.
[00:16:28.760 --> 00:16:35.880] And on Sunday, we were on CRISPR answering some users, and boom.
[00:16:35.880 --> 00:16:38.120] So all the analytics, etc.
[00:16:38.680 --> 00:16:42.760] Everything went crazy, like really crazy.
[00:16:43.080 --> 00:16:46.600] Like traffic, like people coming in, people asking questions.
[00:16:46.600 --> 00:16:50.280] Yeah, yeah, we had two busy days.
[00:16:50.280 --> 00:16:58.840] So I had like to work during nights and my colleague during days, and we did like shifts like that.
[00:16:58.840 --> 00:16:59.320] Wow.
[00:16:59.640 --> 00:17:04.040] So yeah, we could like handle all the traction.
[00:17:04.040 --> 00:17:12.440] And then we tried to collect all the feedback and to make all the users happy about that.
[00:17:12.760 --> 00:17:21.000] And yeah, in the next product hunt was something big for us because it really helped to get traction.
[00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:25.800] Yeah, and that was fairly because that was also in 2015.
[00:17:25.800 --> 00:17:28.200] So you launched.
[00:17:28.200 --> 00:17:30.440] By the way, how did you find those first 10 people?
[00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:31.720] Where did they come from?
[00:17:31.720 --> 00:17:41.960] So I had a friend who contacted like a few companies, cold emailing, basically, telling them you don't have any customer service.
[00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:44.520] I mean, your contact form is broken.
[00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:46.000] You should use CRISPR.
[00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:46.720] Wow.
[00:17:47.040 --> 00:17:49.840] And the next day, we had 10 users.
[00:17:49.840 --> 00:17:51.520] Wow, that's a good friend.
[00:17:51.520 --> 00:17:52.720] Yeah, very good friend.
[00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:58.640] Yeah, yeah, because initially, CRISP, I mean, no one could sign up on CRISP.
[00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:02.240] I mean, with Valerian, we were typical engineers.
[00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:04.080] No, it's not perfect yet.
[00:18:04.080 --> 00:18:04.640] Yes.
[00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:06.720] It's password protected.
[00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:10.320] So the homepage was password protected.
[00:18:10.320 --> 00:18:15.760] And so this friend told me, but can I sign up on CRISPR?
[00:18:15.760 --> 00:18:16.720] No, you can't.
[00:18:16.720 --> 00:18:18.240] It's password protected.
[00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:19.440] Oh, man.
[00:18:20.560 --> 00:18:22.000] Give me the password.
[00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:29.280] And I told Valerian, okay, could we maybe stop password protecting CRISP?
[00:18:29.280 --> 00:18:32.720] And yeah, okay, let's remove that shit.
[00:18:34.320 --> 00:18:41.360] So yeah, nowadays, many people had a look to the movie about Facebook.
[00:18:41.600 --> 00:18:43.200] I don't remember the name.
[00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:44.880] The social network.
[00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:46.400] The social network.
[00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:54.880] And most of the people think that launching a company is like emailing thousands of people and then boom.
[00:18:54.880 --> 00:19:00.080] Your company is created and you have traction.
[00:19:00.080 --> 00:19:08.960] But in fact, starting a company is like launching your company every day during like a few weeks.
[00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:09.760] Yes.
[00:19:09.760 --> 00:19:11.680] There is no D-Day.
[00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:12.240] Yeah, yeah.
[00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:14.560] It's a slow opening.
[00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:16.160] Slow opening.
[00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:28.080] And you felt like, did it feel like, you mean like every single day you came in and you were like, okay, well, like today we're going to take off the password protection and that's going to be like another launch.
[00:19:28.080 --> 00:19:28.960] Is that what you mean?
[00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:29.200] Yeah.
[00:19:29.080 --> 00:19:29.800] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:19:29.800 --> 00:19:31.000] It's not even a launch.
[00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:32.760] I mean, it's just one more step.
[00:19:32.760 --> 00:19:33.080] Yes.
[00:19:33.080 --> 00:19:33.560] Yeah.
[00:19:33.560 --> 00:19:33.880] Yeah.
[00:19:29.520 --> 00:19:33.960] Yeah.
[00:19:34.120 --> 00:19:38.040] So we moved the password and the next day, boom, 10 users.
[00:19:38.200 --> 00:19:41.640] It's really interesting that you got started with the cold emailing.
[00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:46.280] If you think about it, was that a hard step for you to get somebody to help you with that?
[00:19:46.600 --> 00:19:50.760] Did you have any kind of sales or marketing inclinations?
[00:19:50.760 --> 00:19:51.320] No, no.
[00:19:51.320 --> 00:19:59.960] I mean, we were like two typical engineers, developers, not knowing anything about marketing, SEO, etc.
[00:20:00.120 --> 00:20:03.240] Not wanting to talk to people at all.
[00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:03.800] Yeah.
[00:20:03.800 --> 00:20:09.320] So, yeah, when we started to have users, we had to split the roles.
[00:20:09.320 --> 00:20:17.880] And my colleague Valeron, more doing code, doing more code, and me doing more marketing and growth.
[00:20:17.880 --> 00:20:24.040] So I tried to learn everything about marketing, growth hacking.
[00:20:24.040 --> 00:20:30.440] So, and even today, if I look at your about page, there's you and is it Valeron?
[00:20:30.440 --> 00:20:31.000] How do you say it?
[00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:31.720] Valerian?
[00:20:31.720 --> 00:20:36.760] Yeah, yeah, in French, you pronounce the R, but in English, I think you would say Valeron.
[00:20:36.920 --> 00:20:51.080] Yeah, so you two, so he's more technical, and then you have Antoine, who's also doing marketing and sales, and then you have some more software engineers, so and then a content manager.
[00:20:51.080 --> 00:20:54.040] So, did that sales and marketing grow over time?
[00:20:54.200 --> 00:21:03.720] So we went from zero to 100K MRO, just being the two tours.
[00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:04.680] Wow.
[00:21:04.680 --> 00:21:06.120] How long did that take?
[00:21:07.080 --> 00:21:08.040] Three years?
[00:21:08.040 --> 00:21:11.400] Zero to 100K in three years with just the two of you.
[00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:13.320] And how did, let's just stop there for a second?
[00:21:13.320 --> 00:21:14.280] How did that feel?
[00:21:14.280 --> 00:21:19.120] So you launch, you got 10 customers, then someone features you on Product Hunt.
[00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:21.760] How many customers do you think you got out of Product Hunt?
[00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:24.800] 5,000, something like that.
[00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:26.080] 5,000.
[00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:27.120] Wow.
[00:21:27.120 --> 00:21:30.880] Yeah, yeah, but not all the users were paying for CRISP.
[00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:32.880] Okay, so you had some free users then?
[00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:37.760] Yeah, yeah, 5,000 users is still a lot.
[00:21:37.760 --> 00:21:47.440] And when we talk about Product Hunt, we talk about people who have a big impact in the startup industry.
[00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:54.560] And those users are really different to regular SMBs.
[00:21:54.560 --> 00:22:00.400] I mean, they're going to spread the word about your product.
[00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:09.120] So initially, yeah, maybe 5,000 users, but thanks to all those users, we had a lot more.
[00:22:09.360 --> 00:22:11.680] Yeah, you must have started getting a lot of word of mouth.
[00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:12.720] Yeah, exactly, yeah.
[00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:23.600] And I mean, it's nice that at this time, 2015, you know, the SaaS ecosystem is much more mature.
[00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:29.040] Customer support ecosystem is much more mature.
[00:22:29.040 --> 00:22:34.640] There's Zendesk, there's, you know, all these big players in that space.
[00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:40.320] And so now people are looking for alternatives, and you folks come in.
[00:22:40.320 --> 00:22:45.360] What's always been interesting about Crisp is the price.
[00:22:45.360 --> 00:22:54.480] You start free, and then you you give an incredible amount of value for the price that you charge.
[00:22:55.160 --> 00:22:58.800] How What was your instinct there?
[00:22:58.800 --> 00:23:01.000] Like, why make it so affordable?
[00:23:01.320 --> 00:23:15.080] Why, you know, because you know intercom is thousands and thousands of dollars per month for you know They do different things, but you know, that's what people are often comparing.
[00:23:15.080 --> 00:23:19.000] You must get a lot of people switching from intercom to crisp, I'm imagining.
[00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:26.920] We felt we need to reduce the decision making for users wanting to use a product like CRISP.
[00:23:26.920 --> 00:23:34.920] You initially, we had four different plans and you had a different usage level between all the plans.
[00:23:34.920 --> 00:23:46.360] So we had the free plan, we had CRISPR Pro, CRISP Business, and Enterprise, maybe we had like two different plans.
[00:23:46.360 --> 00:23:57.960] And we tried to reduce decision making by just having a free plan, a cheap plan, and like a more expensive plan, but with all the features included.
[00:23:57.960 --> 00:23:58.120] Yes.
[00:23:58.360 --> 00:24:00.680] Included, which was the CRISP Unlimited plan.
[00:24:01.320 --> 00:24:08.840] And when we released the CRISPR Unlimited plan, we had like four times more users on this plan.
[00:24:09.080 --> 00:24:09.720] Got it.
[00:24:10.680 --> 00:24:16.600] All the users were choosing this plan rather than the CRISP Pro one.
[00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:23.800] So, and we had a few friends doing unlimited plans, and in fact, it worked a lot.
[00:24:25.480 --> 00:24:37.080] And in France, we did that because in France we have I think the unlimited usage is quite popular in France.
[00:24:37.320 --> 00:24:40.280] For instance, it started with phones.
[00:24:40.280 --> 00:24:45.000] And basically, it was like crazy in France when he did that.
[00:24:45.280 --> 00:24:48.800] And internet went popular thanks to that.
[00:24:48.800 --> 00:24:54.720] And we wanted to do something similar, but for SaaS.
[00:24:54.720 --> 00:25:01.440] And we thought, okay, if we want to make Chris popular, it needs to be a no-brainer deal.
[00:25:01.760 --> 00:25:11.920] So if you don't have any money and just you start a company, use Chris for free, because anyway, you don't have the money to pay for any SaaS.
[00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:14.240] So better give the product for free.
[00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:18.000] And anyway, maybe you're going to be successful one day.
[00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:19.680] And it's how it works.
[00:25:20.320 --> 00:25:25.840] And then we try to have a plan for any kind of company.
[00:25:25.840 --> 00:25:32.720] For John and I, this is exactly how it worked because, you know, we started just the two of us, just like you two.
[00:25:33.040 --> 00:25:35.600] And we're bootstrapping this, we're self-funding it.
[00:25:35.760 --> 00:25:37.920] John especially doesn't like spending money.
[00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:40.560] So anytime he can save money, he likes it.
[00:25:40.560 --> 00:25:43.440] And we started with Kayako.
[00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:46.880] And we started with Kayako because it was free.
[00:25:46.880 --> 00:25:52.480] So it was like, are we going to use intercom and spend, whatever it was, hundreds of dollars per month?
[00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:54.960] It would have been more than our hosting bill.
[00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:56.960] Or are we going to start on something that's free?
[00:25:56.960 --> 00:25:58.960] We started on something that was free.
[00:25:58.960 --> 00:26:05.440] The problem with Kayako is that the price was low, but the product quality was quite low.
[00:26:05.440 --> 00:26:07.200] It was just always had bugs.
[00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:08.640] We were always having downtime.
[00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:10.880] We were always having trouble.
[00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:13.760] And then we're looking for alternatives.
[00:26:13.760 --> 00:26:19.920] And every, you know, like we would have downtime, and then every three months we'd be like, you know, should we look at something else?
[00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:25.440] We'd look at intercom and then we'd look at Help Scout and you know, all these other tools.
[00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:27.200] And it never felt right.
[00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:31.560] Like a lot of the tools didn't have good live chat, which is what we wanted.
[00:26:31.560 --> 00:26:33.480] And then we found Crisp.
[00:26:33.560 --> 00:26:35.320] It got recommended to us.
[00:26:35.320 --> 00:26:42.040] And I just remember like looking at it and going, there's no way that we're gonna get all of this for this price.
[00:26:42.040 --> 00:26:45.400] But we signed up for the free plan and tried it.
[00:26:45.400 --> 00:26:48.200] And we're just like, this software is solid.
[00:26:48.200 --> 00:26:51.240] Like, this is really good software.
[00:26:51.240 --> 00:26:55.480] And it's so much more affordable than the alternatives.
[00:26:55.480 --> 00:26:57.960] And you're right, it was just a no-brainer.
[00:26:57.960 --> 00:27:07.560] And I think what's interesting is in the startup ecosystem, there's a lot of ideas about maximizing your price.
[00:27:07.560 --> 00:27:11.000] So like intercom is maximizing their price.
[00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:11.400] Yeah.
[00:27:11.720 --> 00:27:15.160] But for SMBs, that's the wrong answer.
[00:27:15.160 --> 00:27:29.320] If you're looking, if you're trying to serve SMBs, it's the wrong answer because we can't afford intercom prices and it's way more likely we're going to recommend you to other people.
[00:27:29.320 --> 00:27:37.560] So I've recommended Crisp so many times just because it's like, this is an amazing software, and you won't believe the value you get for the price.
[00:27:37.560 --> 00:27:39.320] Like it's just a no-brainer.
[00:27:39.320 --> 00:27:41.080] You've got to get on it.
[00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:54.120] And so I'm interested to know, like, have, do you feel like that trade-off has paid off of you just get way more word of mouth, way more uptake because of the price?
[00:27:54.360 --> 00:28:01.880] I think raising your price like two times per year can work for VC-funded companies.
[00:28:02.600 --> 00:28:12.520] For a reason, is they have so much growth that they just don't care about paying two times more for what they paid before.
[00:28:12.840 --> 00:28:14.560] And it's even not their money.
[00:28:14.120 --> 00:28:16.080] I mean, it's the VC's money.
[00:28:16.400 --> 00:28:22.160] So they just spend, spend on the people, spend on the software, spend on ads.
[00:28:22.160 --> 00:28:23.920] They spend, basically.
[00:28:24.240 --> 00:28:34.560] So I think in the comms customers are mostly VC funded companies and just they just don't have the time to switch.
[00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:38.240] So, okay, they pay, they pay.
[00:28:38.560 --> 00:28:42.400] But SMBs, it's quite different.
[00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:48.000] And at CRISP, we really craft a software for SMBs.
[00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:51.600] Now we start to have enterprise users.
[00:28:51.600 --> 00:28:55.360] But really CRISP, what made us is SMBs.
[00:28:55.360 --> 00:28:59.520] I mean, regular SMBs, not technical startups.
[00:28:59.760 --> 00:29:06.240] Really, we are talking about German industry.
[00:29:06.560 --> 00:29:07.920] I mean, regular SMBs.
[00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:09.600] Like mainstream businesses.
[00:29:09.920 --> 00:29:11.520] So not necessarily tech companies.
[00:29:12.320 --> 00:29:15.280] You're talking about retail stores, restaurants.
[00:29:15.760 --> 00:29:17.600] Regular e-commerce.
[00:29:18.080 --> 00:29:18.480] Okay.
[00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:18.880] Yeah.
[00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:25.360] Many different companies you wouldn't even think about.
[00:29:25.360 --> 00:29:32.240] So for instance, during COVID-19 pandemic, we started to have like funny usage of CRISP.
[00:29:32.240 --> 00:29:34.880] For instance, churches using CRISP.
[00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:42.400] Yeah, because churches were closed and people couldn't confess anymore physically.
[00:29:42.400 --> 00:29:45.840] They would just jump on, they would jump on CRISP with the priest.
[00:29:45.840 --> 00:29:46.400] Yeah, exactly.
[00:29:46.400 --> 00:29:46.800] Yeah.
[00:29:46.800 --> 00:29:47.280] Wow.
[00:29:47.280 --> 00:29:47.640] Exactly.
[00:29:47.520 --> 00:29:47.800] Yeah.
[00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:50.560] Just start confessing their sins.
[00:29:51.040 --> 00:29:58.720] And the thing is, the priest could use your magic tool to look at what they were looking at on their browser and see how sinful they really were.
[00:29:58.720 --> 00:29:59.360] Yeah, yeah.
[00:29:59.360 --> 00:30:01.160] And we also have a video.
[00:29:59.600 --> 00:30:05.960] We also have a video chat system with CRUSP.
[00:30:06.600 --> 00:30:11.000] So they can do a live conversation as well.
[00:30:11.320 --> 00:30:13.960] Okay, so it's a big confession.
[00:30:15.160 --> 00:30:17.480] It won't work with chat.
[00:30:18.040 --> 00:30:18.440] Let's go.
[00:30:18.600 --> 00:30:19.240] Let's do a call.
[00:30:19.240 --> 00:30:20.120] Let's have a video.
[00:30:20.520 --> 00:30:22.200] That is hilarious.
[00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:28.280] So do you find it difficult having such a wide variety of users?
[00:30:28.840 --> 00:30:41.800] Because there's definitely companies in the knowledge base space and the customer support space and the live chat space that go specifically for technology companies.
[00:30:41.800 --> 00:30:45.240] So you have all sorts of customers using it in all sorts of different ways.
[00:30:45.240 --> 00:30:47.960] Has that been a challenge or does it not really matter?
[00:30:47.960 --> 00:30:51.320] Does it not really matter what they're using it for?
[00:30:51.320 --> 00:30:57.320] So sometimes for those users, they're the first SaaS software they're paying for.
[00:30:57.880 --> 00:31:02.440] I mean, they never paid for any software before.
[00:31:02.760 --> 00:31:07.400] So they don't know stuff like what the seats are.
[00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:12.600] For instance, in the live chat industry, they used to pay per seat.
[00:31:12.920 --> 00:31:16.760] So they're not familiar with that.
[00:31:16.760 --> 00:31:24.280] And so it's why we've tried to make CRISPR as CRISPR as possible, as simple as possible.
[00:31:24.280 --> 00:31:28.040] It's to satisfy this kind of customers.
[00:31:28.040 --> 00:31:36.600] And now we have a few integrations as well made for this kind of industries.
[00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:42.760] For instance, we have a few integrations for like niche softwares.
[00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:47.120] For instance, CRMs for specific industries.
[00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:53.200] And now CRISP tends to be the iPhone of the customer service.
[00:31:53.200 --> 00:32:02.480] I mean, it's a tool where you can plug apps that can multiply the experience of customer service.
[00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:12.880] So you can like connect your Stripe account on CRISP, and when someone has a chat with you, you can immediately find all the invoices.
[00:32:15.360 --> 00:32:23.040] And we are now connected with different invoicing systems, including niche systems.
[00:32:23.360 --> 00:32:26.720] And it's how we try to tech industries.
[00:32:26.720 --> 00:32:27.200] Yeah.
[00:32:28.880 --> 00:32:31.520] Because you have a pretty small team still.
[00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:36.800] How are you able to ship so much at this quality level?
[00:32:36.800 --> 00:32:42.800] Like, you have probably, you might have 100 times less employees than some of your customers.
[00:32:42.800 --> 00:32:48.720] So how are you able to build this quality software and keep releasing this?
[00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:53.440] Like, whenever I get your newsletters, I'm always like, how are they shipping so much?
[00:32:53.440 --> 00:32:56.240] Like, how are they doing all this with such a small team?
[00:32:56.400 --> 00:33:01.600] But it's because we're a small team that we can achieve great things.
[00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:08.720] I don't think, and it's not possible to do a baby with nine women in one month.
[00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:10.640] It's the same for features.
[00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:29.800] I mean, it's not by bringing more developers solving the same issue, you're gonna reduce the amount of time required to solve the problem because there is some decision making, some meetings required, unit tests.
[00:33:29.440 --> 00:33:33.480] You know, scaling people is hard.
[00:33:34.120 --> 00:33:50.840] So, we try at CRISP to find T-shaped people, people with an entrepreneurship mindset, and it's a lot easier because you don't need to spend your time doing calls, etc.
[00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:51.480] Meetings.
[00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:51.960] Yes.
[00:33:51.960 --> 00:33:54.040] Just we get the things done.
[00:33:54.040 --> 00:33:55.880] Okay, there is a problem.
[00:33:55.880 --> 00:33:57.400] Let's solve the problem.
[00:33:57.400 --> 00:34:03.160] I mean, you are in charge of solving the problem alone, and it's all it works.
[00:34:03.400 --> 00:34:04.760] And it's worked so far.
[00:34:05.080 --> 00:34:08.200] Hey, how come your team doesn't have their own podcast?
[00:34:08.200 --> 00:34:13.160] Head over to Transistor and use my coupon, transistor.fm/slash justin.
[00:34:13.160 --> 00:34:17.160] You'll get 15% off your first year of podcast hosting.
[00:34:17.800 --> 00:34:36.600] And when you say T-shaped, you mean somebody who is deep in one area, like has deep knowledge in programming or whatever, but is also broad in that they could also understand customer support, they might also understand some marketing, they might understand design, etc.
[00:34:36.840 --> 00:34:37.640] Yeah, exactly.
[00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:39.160] Interesting.
[00:34:39.160 --> 00:34:44.360] And so, right now, your team is how many engineers on your team?
[00:34:44.360 --> 00:34:45.880] Hey, we are four.
[00:34:46.520 --> 00:34:50.680] Four engineers, including Valeria and I.
[00:34:50.840 --> 00:35:03.080] Okay, and then it looks like you have another, you have Antoine and Leo on content, and then you've got Leia who's partnerships.
[00:35:03.080 --> 00:35:05.720] Is that like figuring out enterprise deals?
[00:35:05.720 --> 00:35:08.600] Not only, but we start to have agencies.
[00:35:08.920 --> 00:35:13.880] So we have a lot of different agencies using CRISP, freelancers, etc.
[00:35:14.200 --> 00:35:14.680] Okay.
[00:35:14.880 --> 00:35:25.360] So we try to figure out who could recommend CRISP for clients and having special deals for them.
[00:35:25.680 --> 00:35:26.400] Got it.
[00:35:26.720 --> 00:35:34.080] In terms of marketing, what has been have there been some other things that have really worked for you?
[00:35:34.080 --> 00:35:42.880] Like where you've pulled the lever and you're like, this is this brought us in a whole new group of business that we wouldn't have had before.
[00:35:43.200 --> 00:35:44.320] Is there anything like that?
[00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:46.080] Or is it just gradual?
[00:35:46.080 --> 00:35:47.760] Like is it mostly word of mouth?
[00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:51.840] Where are you really focusing your marketing and energy these days?
[00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:54.320] It changed a lot over the time.
[00:35:54.640 --> 00:35:56.080] It changed a lot.
[00:35:56.080 --> 00:36:01.600] So when we started CRISP, basically we didn't have any strategy about marketing, et cetera.
[00:36:01.600 --> 00:36:12.320] Just like a few users using CRISP, word of mouth, and we tried to iterate CRISP on them about all their needs.
[00:36:12.640 --> 00:36:20.640] Then we started to have traction, more users using CRISPR, using the free plan and recommending CRISP.
[00:36:20.960 --> 00:36:29.840] So we worked a lot on the product and especially around onboarding to better understand what the people needed.
[00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:30.560] Yes.
[00:36:30.560 --> 00:36:35.600] And what was in their mind when they wanted to use a tool like CRISPR?
[00:36:36.880 --> 00:36:39.760] So we did the bottom of the funeral.
[00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:44.960] I mean, all those people needed a chat software right now.
[00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:52.240] It was their job finding a chat software to get the things done today.
[00:36:52.560 --> 00:37:01.960] And it's what we offered them by simplifying the user experience when the users sign up for CRISP.
[00:37:02.200 --> 00:37:09.320] And we try to optimize all the steps so you can get the things done immediately.
[00:37:09.320 --> 00:37:10.760] And it worked a lot.
[00:37:10.760 --> 00:37:20.360] And we figured out by doing that let's so 50% of the users were still using CRISP the next day.
[00:37:20.360 --> 00:37:21.080] Wow.
[00:37:21.320 --> 00:37:34.760] I mean that insight is what's interesting is that instead of starting with a marketing tactic, you said first of all, let's just figure out where people are at when they land on our doorstep.
[00:37:34.760 --> 00:37:37.880] Yeah, CRISP is still about product-led growth.
[00:37:37.880 --> 00:37:49.000] It's still, but with some magic sauce, spicy marketing sauce around it that makes a great multiplier around.
[00:37:49.000 --> 00:37:51.960] I think marketing is a great multiplier.
[00:37:51.960 --> 00:38:05.320] So if you have a good traction like that, using your product, I mean, succeeding a company is all about product market feed and having a great product for an audience.
[00:38:05.320 --> 00:38:08.360] If you have that, okay, you're gonna have some traction.
[00:38:08.680 --> 00:38:13.000] Marketing is doing from that to that, something like that.
[00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:14.840] Yeah, it's an amplifier.
[00:38:14.840 --> 00:38:16.920] An amplifier, exactly.
[00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:23.000] And and so we we achieved doing that until 100K.
[00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:26.840] So I I used to arrive at a plateau of knowledge.
[00:38:27.240 --> 00:38:30.120] Marketing is was not like my thing.
[00:38:30.120 --> 00:38:33.160] I did that because I had to do that.
[00:38:33.160 --> 00:38:35.880] But it's not my passion.
[00:38:35.880 --> 00:38:47.760] So we tried to find people and Antoine who joined the team in 2018 to solve, to reach the next milestone.
[00:38:44.600 --> 00:38:50.880] And we started to work on SEO.
[00:38:50.880 --> 00:38:53.200] Back in the days, no SEO at all.
[00:38:53.200 --> 00:38:55.520] I mean, no SEO.
[00:38:55.840 --> 00:39:00.400] So we had to iterate on a lot of stuff.
[00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:09.840] We tried paid advertising as well, copywriting, and yeah, but still the bottom of the funeral.
[00:39:10.400 --> 00:39:22.320] And now, as we grow to more enterprise deals, more users willing to pay more, we need to have a better branding around CRISPR.
[00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:34.720] So users not requiring to use a support system right now, but maybe in six months, a year, can know about our brand.
[00:39:34.720 --> 00:39:41.360] They can know that CRISP is good for them, and maybe one day they're going to use a tool like us.
[00:39:41.360 --> 00:39:42.880] And they're going to think about CRISP.
[00:39:43.120 --> 00:39:49.680] Of those levers, SEO, ads, has anything worked better or worse?
[00:39:49.680 --> 00:39:55.200] Like, for example, we've at Transistor, we've never really been able to make ads work for us.
[00:39:55.440 --> 00:39:58.080] What's been your experience with ads, SEO?
[00:39:58.080 --> 00:39:59.440] What's been working the best?
[00:39:59.440 --> 00:40:00.960] I think it's complicated.
[00:40:01.920 --> 00:40:05.520] Very complicated and expensive.
[00:40:06.560 --> 00:40:09.040] SEO is like magic.
[00:40:09.040 --> 00:40:19.040] I mean, magic in the terms of it can be super good in terms of growth, but it's super dark in the main chain.
[00:40:19.120 --> 00:40:26.920] I mean, the way it works for me, it's still not 100% I I still don't understand everything.
[00:40:27.560 --> 00:40:36.120] And even people working 100% of the time on SEO, they don't understand what's going on.
[00:40:36.120 --> 00:40:37.240] Yeah, what's in the dark box.
[00:40:37.720 --> 00:40:42.440] But there is still things to do.
[00:40:42.600 --> 00:40:50.040] I don't think you need to focus a lot on SEO at the beginning to succeed something.
[00:40:50.360 --> 00:40:54.600] But at some point, you know, SEO is like the multiplier, the amplifier.
[00:40:54.600 --> 00:40:57.240] Yeah, yeah, I think that's such a key insight.
[00:40:57.240 --> 00:41:05.800] And again, just to go back to this insight of you realized that when people landed on Crisp, they needed to make a decision today.
[00:41:05.800 --> 00:41:10.360] It was their job to find customer support software today.
[00:41:10.360 --> 00:41:15.320] Hey, Janet, I need you to go and research the best ones and just choose one.
[00:41:15.320 --> 00:41:17.000] It was similar for Transistor, too.
[00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:21.800] It's like, you know, the third time Kayako went down, we were like, that's it.
[00:41:21.800 --> 00:41:26.600] Like, today's the day I'm going to go and research all of the possibilities.
[00:41:26.600 --> 00:41:28.680] I go in three different Slack groups.
[00:41:28.680 --> 00:41:32.600] I say, hey, what is everybody using for live chat?
[00:41:32.920 --> 00:41:35.400] Crisp gets mentioned in that list.
[00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:36.440] I go check it out.
[00:41:36.440 --> 00:41:39.080] I sign up for a free trial.
[00:41:39.080 --> 00:41:41.400] And now I'm in.
[00:41:42.040 --> 00:41:44.440] But I also want to close the loop fast.
[00:41:44.440 --> 00:41:47.960] I don't want to be deciding what software we're going to use forever.
[00:41:47.960 --> 00:41:51.480] I just want to make a decision and move on.
[00:41:51.480 --> 00:42:07.400] And getting in the customer's mindset the way you did, understanding that if you can improve that initial experience and that onboarding, that's the piece that so much software doesn't get.
[00:42:07.400 --> 00:42:10.600] They don't understand where our customers are at.
[00:42:10.600 --> 00:42:13.720] What brought them to your site today?
[00:42:14.040 --> 00:42:26.240] Like what brought them there, what mindset are they in, and once you understand that, you can configure your onboarding to best just like get them in the product and get them paying.
[00:42:26.240 --> 00:42:32.480] And that's a lot of the battle because you can have a huge funnel with tons and tons of people coming in.
[00:42:32.480 --> 00:42:47.680] But if you're not able to make those key moments, yeah, and for instance, I think regular industries, for instance, if you think about the food industry and chocolate bars, have a break, have a Kit Kat.
[00:42:48.000 --> 00:43:00.240] It's such great tagline because I think it was created in the 50s, 57.
[00:43:00.240 --> 00:43:10.080] And the idea about that is what the users, I mean, the people buying our product are doing when they buy our product.
[00:43:10.080 --> 00:43:16.720] And in fact, if you think about chocolate bars, people try to achieve a task.
[00:43:16.720 --> 00:43:27.440] They're hardworking in their company, they try to solve a bug, they try to lawyers doing paperwork, etc.
[00:43:28.240 --> 00:43:30.080] And they want to get the things done.
[00:43:30.640 --> 00:43:44.240] And they go to the machine, they use $1 to get the product, and boom, they eat the product in like five seconds, and boom, they go back to work.
[00:43:44.240 --> 00:43:49.520] It's not about the taste, it's just about doing the get the thing.
[00:43:49.680 --> 00:43:50.320] That's right.
[00:43:50.320 --> 00:43:53.040] And it worked so well.
[00:43:53.360 --> 00:43:55.280] I mean, have a break, have a Kit Kat.
[00:43:55.280 --> 00:44:11.640] It's just a chocolate bar, but it's a great tagline because the marketing guys thinking about that knew the customers and what the customer is, where what the what were their goals, what they wanted.
[00:44:11.880 --> 00:44:12.760] The context.
[00:44:12.760 --> 00:44:20.840] This is in the jobs to be done, they call, they say, What are people hiring the product to do?
[00:44:21.160 --> 00:44:23.880] And there's so many layers to that.
[00:44:23.880 --> 00:44:40.520] Like, if you're in a company and let's say it's a 20-person agency, and your boss says, We need to get live chat software for this customer, and then says, Janet, you go research, you know, the live chat software.
[00:44:40.520 --> 00:44:46.360] The job to be done is different for different people in that organization.
[00:44:46.360 --> 00:44:49.960] For Janet, she wants to look good to the boss and to the client.
[00:44:49.960 --> 00:44:51.080] So, what does that mean?
[00:44:51.080 --> 00:44:53.320] It means I've got to make a decision.
[00:44:53.720 --> 00:44:56.040] If it's more affordable, that's always good.
[00:44:56.040 --> 00:44:57.880] They're going to be saving money.
[00:44:57.880 --> 00:45:03.560] If it's good software that doesn't make me look bad, that's a good thing, right?
[00:45:03.560 --> 00:45:05.400] Exactly, yeah, exactly.
[00:45:05.400 --> 00:45:18.680] And it's the customer, and they're scared about, they just don't want to fuck up the decision because it's how their colleagues are going to think about their role.
[00:45:18.680 --> 00:45:25.480] I mean, at the end, it's just choosing like a software costing like a few bucks per month.
[00:45:25.480 --> 00:45:31.720] But it's like their job is all about this, and they could be fired or whatever.
[00:45:32.440 --> 00:45:34.040] They want to mess up about this.
[00:45:34.360 --> 00:45:38.600] And even in small companies with a co-founder, you see this dynamic.
[00:45:38.600 --> 00:45:49.520] If it's my job to choose a tool or make a decision and I fuck up and it looks bad to John, my co-founder, that does affect me.
[00:45:49.520 --> 00:45:51.920] That's a part of my calculus, right?
[00:45:51.920 --> 00:45:54.640] It's like, I want to make good decisions.
[00:45:55.520 --> 00:45:59.920] Even in a small company, in a co-founder relationship, you don't want to fuck up.
[00:45:59.920 --> 00:46:03.760] Like, there's that old saying, like, nobody got fired for choosing IBM, right?
[00:46:03.760 --> 00:46:10.880] Like, there's always this idea of what's the safest choice I can make that will make me.
[00:46:11.520 --> 00:46:20.960] We had an easy trick, and I learned this trick by working from a French company, a small company, having like normal clients.
[00:46:20.960 --> 00:46:36.320] And in a decision-making process, you have the people choosing the software, and the people gonna choose if going to choose this software or another one, and then maybe the billing department are gonna pay for the software.
[00:46:36.320 --> 00:46:51.840] And what they did is just a PDF, and they gave you a PDF, and then you could forward this PDF to your boss, to your colleagues, so you could convince them that this is the right decision.
[00:46:51.840 --> 00:47:00.720] And we made the same with CRISP, just a PDF, resuming everything in 20 slides.
[00:47:00.720 --> 00:47:01.840] That's so smart.
[00:47:01.840 --> 00:47:03.360] Very easy.
[00:47:03.680 --> 00:47:05.680] Super easy to process.
[00:47:05.680 --> 00:47:10.480] Features and three key points about what to think.
[00:47:10.800 --> 00:47:14.240] And super, like, it's super easy.
[00:47:14.240 --> 00:47:22.560] And at the end, it's just what who we are, the CRISP customer survives, CRISP SLA.
[00:47:22.720 --> 00:47:25.040] I mean, CRISP is never down.
[00:47:25.680 --> 00:47:27.840] We have a good customer support.
[00:47:27.840 --> 00:47:29.440] And what's the cost?
[00:47:29.440 --> 00:47:32.200] And if you have any question, email us.
[00:47:32.520 --> 00:47:43.400] Just very easy, and it works so great because they can like, okay, boss, this is the document, this is what we need.
[00:47:43.400 --> 00:47:45.320] And the boss is not having the time.
[00:47:45.320 --> 00:47:50.040] He needs to make a decision like quickly.
[00:47:50.040 --> 00:47:54.920] And using this document, he can do the right decision.
[00:47:55.720 --> 00:48:01.560] He's not having to go to the website, maybe having an account, etc.
[00:48:01.880 --> 00:48:03.640] He is having a PDF.
[00:48:03.640 --> 00:48:05.560] It's like buying a house.
[00:48:05.560 --> 00:48:11.400] You know, when you buy a house, want to buy a house, you have a PDF with photos, etc.
[00:48:13.800 --> 00:48:17.000] The cost, the agency, et cetera.
[00:48:17.400 --> 00:48:18.120] Contact points.
[00:48:18.920 --> 00:48:19.800] This is the same.
[00:48:19.800 --> 00:48:22.040] Yeah, that's such a key insight.
[00:48:22.040 --> 00:48:27.080] Again, because it gets in the psychology of someone buying a product.
[00:48:27.080 --> 00:48:29.400] How do people buy products?
[00:48:29.400 --> 00:48:40.200] And unless you're just selling to a solopreneur, and there's different dynamics with solopreneurs, but as soon as you have two people in a company, I have to convince John to buy this product.
[00:48:40.200 --> 00:48:41.320] So what am I going to do?
[00:48:41.640 --> 00:48:43.320] I'm going to be selling him on it.
[00:48:43.320 --> 00:48:44.920] I'm now the salesperson.
[00:48:44.920 --> 00:48:52.840] So equip me as the person who wants to buy your software to sell it to the other people in the organization.
[00:48:52.840 --> 00:48:57.480] And that's such a key, like a great way of doing it: the PDF.
[00:48:58.200 --> 00:49:05.000] This is also the same insight a lot of us in SaaS have had about reports.
[00:49:05.640 --> 00:49:07.800] Why do you want reports?
[00:49:07.800 --> 00:49:13.560] Give me reports so that I can look good to my boss in a meeting.
[00:49:13.560 --> 00:49:16.960] Hey, Janet, how are we doing in terms of customer support?
[00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:20.800] Oh, well, we've had 81 more conversations this week.
[00:49:20.800 --> 00:49:25.360] Our response time is down and we've had more visitors.
[00:49:25.360 --> 00:49:26.160] Perfect.
[00:49:26.160 --> 00:49:27.040] Thanks, Janet.
[00:49:27.040 --> 00:49:32.720] Like, you're equipping people to have the answers so that they look good in a meeting.
[00:49:32.720 --> 00:49:33.760] So key.
[00:49:33.760 --> 00:49:34.320] Yeah.
[00:49:34.320 --> 00:49:45.760] And once you understand why not everyone is hiring, like for podcast hosting, not everybody is hiring podcast hosting for the same reason.
[00:49:45.760 --> 00:49:48.320] The marketing team has their goals.
[00:49:48.320 --> 00:49:50.240] The boss has their goals.
[00:49:50.880 --> 00:49:52.960] Everybody has their goals.
[00:49:53.280 --> 00:49:58.480] The individual employee who's in charge of purchasing has their goals, right?
[00:49:58.480 --> 00:50:00.160] And nobody wants to fuck up.
[00:50:00.160 --> 00:50:01.680] Everybody wants to look good.
[00:50:01.680 --> 00:50:02.160] Yeah.
[00:50:02.160 --> 00:50:05.920] Help them make a decision that makes them look good.
[00:50:05.920 --> 00:50:07.360] Make it a no-brainer.
[00:50:07.360 --> 00:50:08.160] And this is why.
[00:50:09.360 --> 00:51:00.120] This is why you need, like, on another thing you guys do great on your page is you just you kind of systematically show people like here's the product it's built for customer support marketing and sales all together and then you have 300,000 brands are already using crisp so the boss is gonna want to know why should I trust these people well 300,000 brands including Boston University Call Hippo John Deere are all using this product yeah and and in fact if you switch to a different language so if you switch to French, if you switch to Portuguese, I'm looking now German oh yeah it's gonna change it gonna change so you you you know this kind of brands.
[00:51:00.120 --> 00:51:14.280] Yeah, so you're doing it, you're geolocating, you're making it even more salient to potential customers to say, hey, well, if you're in France, we'll show you BNB hotels.
[00:51:14.280 --> 00:51:17.080] You know, that's a brand that you might know and recognize.
[00:51:17.080 --> 00:51:18.600] That's so smart.
[00:51:18.600 --> 00:51:23.880] Like, are most of your customers from Europe or from North America?
[00:51:23.880 --> 00:51:28.280] And what's it like being a technology company outside of North America?
[00:51:28.280 --> 00:51:31.240] Do you feel like that has made anything harder?
[00:51:31.240 --> 00:51:36.360] Or is there a huge opportunity in the EU that you've been able to take advantage of?
[00:51:36.360 --> 00:51:41.240] So US, it's only 30% of our revenues.
[00:51:41.560 --> 00:51:49.800] So it means that we take our revenues all around the world and outside the US.
[00:51:51.240 --> 00:52:01.640] So I don't think there is any issue for US customers buying a product not made from the US.
[00:52:01.960 --> 00:52:11.320] In fact, it's why if you look at the footer on the home page, it says made in France, something like that.
[00:52:11.320 --> 00:52:15.160] Initially, I didn't want to add this tagline.
[00:52:15.160 --> 00:52:19.960] I mean, we don't want to sell us as a French company.
[00:52:20.280 --> 00:52:32.360] But if you look at the trends, show that American customers have a good feeling about French made product.
[00:52:32.360 --> 00:52:33.720] That's right, yes.
[00:52:33.720 --> 00:52:36.200] So it's why we show that.
[00:52:36.200 --> 00:52:44.200] I mean, I don't think it would be the same if it would have been India or I don't know.
[00:52:44.200 --> 00:52:53.600] But when if you look at the trends, and it's even better than showing USA made in the USA.
[00:52:53.600 --> 00:53:07.760] I mean, there's definitely like certain brands that you see that you go made in France has this feeling of quality, of maybe craftsmanship, of higher quality luxury.
[00:53:07.760 --> 00:53:08.880] Yeah, yeah.
[00:53:08.960 --> 00:53:10.400] It's the same for Germany.
[00:53:10.400 --> 00:53:17.040] If you think about German cars, when you close the door, it makes a special sound.
[00:53:17.360 --> 00:53:20.320] It's perfect.
[00:53:20.320 --> 00:53:28.800] So a company, I mean, a country can have a perception about how they do product.
[00:53:28.800 --> 00:53:34.000] It's why there is this tagline made in France in the future.
[00:53:34.000 --> 00:53:40.080] But at the end, you know, there are great software developers all around the world.
[00:53:40.080 --> 00:53:43.600] So it's not making any difference.
[00:53:45.120 --> 00:53:47.280] So yeah, it's not a problem for.
[00:53:47.920 --> 00:53:49.920] Is your whole team located in Nantes?
[00:53:49.920 --> 00:53:50.880] No, no, no.
[00:53:50.880 --> 00:53:53.280] So CRISP used to be a remote company.
[00:53:53.280 --> 00:53:59.600] I mean, we didn't wait for COVID-19 pandemic to know what remote is.
[00:54:00.640 --> 00:54:05.120] We started CRISP by being 100% remote.
[00:54:05.840 --> 00:54:09.520] But we wanted to have our families.
[00:54:09.520 --> 00:54:20.320] So being nomad was not easy because when you travel all around the world, you are not doing any long-term relationships.
[00:54:20.960 --> 00:54:28.480] So, by going to the west of France, near our families, friends, etc., it was easier.
[00:54:28.480 --> 00:54:39.400] So, we made a team in Nantes, but still, half, so 50% of the team is all around the world.
[00:54:39.400 --> 00:54:42.840] I mean, we have people working at CRISP in different countries.
[00:54:42.840 --> 00:54:53.000] So, all the Slack, so we use Slack every day, and all the people on Slack just speak English all together.
[00:54:53.000 --> 00:54:53.560] Okay.
[00:54:54.760 --> 00:54:57.880] But half of the team is French.
[00:54:57.880 --> 00:54:58.840] Oh, interesting.
[00:54:58.840 --> 00:55:03.800] So, but during the day, the language that you use for like work is English.
[00:55:03.800 --> 00:55:04.440] Yeah.
[00:55:05.080 --> 00:55:07.160] Not at the offices, obviously.
[00:55:07.480 --> 00:55:18.920] And the other thing I think you've done well that I think we're trying to think about too is it's so easy because so much of the SaaS market traditionally has been North America.
[00:55:19.240 --> 00:55:21.560] It's easy for us to have blinders on.
[00:55:21.560 --> 00:55:32.120] And so, like, if I would say it goes US first, then maybe UK, Germany, Canada, France, and Australia.
[00:55:32.120 --> 00:55:34.680] Those are our top markets.
[00:55:35.720 --> 00:55:42.680] But we know that, you know, in Spanish-speaking countries, podcasting is getting big.
[00:55:42.680 --> 00:55:59.560] And so, one thing that's been interesting about CRISP is you have that auto-translate feature, and we have people all the time that it's almost like you built the product just assuming that you're going to have a global audience so you can see right away this person likely speaks Spanish.
[00:55:59.560 --> 00:56:03.320] Do you want to live translate this right all at once?
[00:56:03.320 --> 00:56:09.640] Do you think that's helped you as a company get into markets that you wouldn't normally have reached into?
[00:56:09.640 --> 00:56:15.000] Like, is there, are you seeing uplift in Spanish-speaking countries or in Asia?
[00:56:15.520 --> 00:56:25.440] As we come from Europe, so people in the US and especially all the in America think that Europe is Europe.
[00:56:25.440 --> 00:56:28.640] I mean, like the USA, but it's not working like that.
[00:56:28.640 --> 00:56:37.280] I mean, Europe is 30 different countries, even more, and we all speak different languages.
[00:56:37.280 --> 00:56:42.960] We all have different cultures, different feelings, etc.
[00:56:43.280 --> 00:56:55.760] And as France comes, we are French people, we come from Europe, so we knew that, okay, if we want to be global, I mean, France is going to be a market for us because we are French.
[00:56:55.760 --> 00:56:58.880] So we need to translate everything in French.
[00:56:58.880 --> 00:57:04.800] We're going to be global first, so English first, but then we're going to localize everything.
[00:57:04.800 --> 00:57:13.520] So we're going to localize everything in French, everything in Spanish, Portuguese, German, etc.
[00:57:14.160 --> 00:57:23.680] And this strategy worked great because the CRISP live chat widget is translated in more than 60 different languages.
[00:57:23.680 --> 00:57:27.920] And actually, our users translated everything.
[00:57:27.920 --> 00:57:30.480] We didn't do anything for that.
[00:57:30.800 --> 00:57:32.000] Just, yeah.
[00:57:32.000 --> 00:57:40.800] So all the chat widgets are translated by the users because they wanted to use CRISP in their own language.
[00:57:40.800 --> 00:57:51.680] So yeah, here is the translation file translated and we're going to make CRISP compatible with Finnish, with Danish, with whatever.
[00:57:51.680 --> 00:57:53.360] And it's what we did.
[00:57:53.360 --> 00:58:01.080] And by doing that, in fact, we had a huge traction in countries we never thought we would have a chance.
[00:58:01.080 --> 00:58:02.680] For instance, Finland.
[00:58:02.680 --> 00:58:03.160] Okay.
[00:57:59.040 --> 00:58:05.880] CRISP was translated in Finnish.
[00:58:06.520 --> 00:58:14.600] And thanks to that, we had a YouTuber doing a blog article in Finland.
[00:58:14.600 --> 00:58:17.560] And this guy was super popular.
[00:58:17.560 --> 00:58:24.920] And in a few months, we went from zero to market leader in Finland.
[00:58:24.920 --> 00:58:25.960] Wow.
[00:58:26.280 --> 00:58:27.800] That's incredible.
[00:58:28.280 --> 00:58:41.800] It does make me feel like, I mean, this is something we talk about at Transistor, but going, we, in some ways, inspired by Chris, we decided to localize our podcast websites feature.
[00:58:41.800 --> 00:58:44.280] And we have a developer, Jason, who really pushed this.
[00:58:44.280 --> 00:58:46.760] He said, like, we really got to do this.
[00:58:46.760 --> 00:58:50.840] And so we localized it into, I think, five or six languages to start.
[00:58:51.160 --> 00:59:02.440] And it's interesting because you do just, as soon as people see, for example, that you can have your website in your language for your country, it does just bring in a bunch more attention.
[00:59:02.440 --> 00:59:08.200] And so demand, customer demand that you might not have been aware of kind of shows up.
[00:59:08.200 --> 00:59:13.160] It's complicated to think for native English people.
[00:59:13.160 --> 00:59:21.800] I mean, people who have always been used to speak English in their life because they think like that.
[00:59:21.800 --> 00:59:26.040] But you know, right now, I'm doing this podcast in English.
[00:59:26.040 --> 00:59:32.840] It needs, even if I'm good, I think I'm good at speaking English, but it's not my main language.
[00:59:32.840 --> 00:59:35.160] I had to learn this language at school.
[00:59:35.160 --> 00:59:41.960] And right now, my brain, CPU, needs to translate in live everything.
[00:59:41.960 --> 00:59:53.920] And it's, I mean, even the best not English native speakers need to think when they read something, et cetera.
[00:59:54.640 --> 01:00:03.760] So if everything is translated in your mother tongue, it has an immediate impact on your thought.
[01:00:04.560 --> 01:00:16.480] It's something that you are not thinking about, and even like English people not thinking about that, but it's a big impact to convince people.
[01:00:16.960 --> 01:00:20.720] Because you feel like you're home when you see your language.
[01:00:27.360 --> 01:00:29.680] Yeah, you have some kind of a Quebec accent.
[01:00:30.640 --> 01:00:31.280] No.
[01:00:31.280 --> 01:00:33.920] Yeah, but for instance, people in Quebec.
[01:00:33.920 --> 01:00:38.800] Because CRISP is translated in French, they love it.
[01:00:38.800 --> 01:00:39.600] Yeah.
[01:00:39.920 --> 01:00:41.040] It makes a big impact.
[01:00:41.440 --> 01:00:50.800] Yeah, we noticed that right away because we would get a lot of customer requests from Ottawa and from Quebec.
[01:00:50.800 --> 01:00:54.800] And in Ottawa, that's our capital, everything has to be bilingual.
[01:00:55.120 --> 01:01:01.600] And in Quebec, everything has to be bilingual, definitely, but leads with French.
[01:01:01.600 --> 01:01:12.400] And yeah, as soon as we have those French language translations, one of the first customers to use it was the Canadian government because they need to have podcasts in both languages.
[01:01:12.720 --> 01:01:15.280] So yeah, I think it's a great insight.
[01:01:15.280 --> 01:01:18.960] And it's a great way as well to differentiate with competitors.
[01:01:19.520 --> 01:01:21.680] At CRISP, we care about that.
[01:01:21.680 --> 01:01:22.800] We have features.
[01:01:22.800 --> 01:01:26.320] And for instance, CRISP is translated in Arabic.
[01:01:26.320 --> 01:01:31.800] No one cares about Hebrew, Arabic, et cetera, because it's RTL.
[01:01:31.800 --> 01:01:33.880] Everything is in the opposite way.
[01:01:33.880 --> 01:01:34.040] Yes.
[01:01:34.200 --> 01:01:34.920] Reversed.
[01:01:29.840 --> 01:01:35.080] Yes.
[01:01:35.720 --> 01:01:38.040] And we do care about that.
[01:01:38.360 --> 01:01:46.840] And when they see CRISP, wow, they're the only kind of company taking care of us.
[01:01:46.840 --> 01:01:48.680] So they love us just because of that.
[01:01:48.920 --> 01:01:51.000] And some of those markets could be bigger.
[01:01:51.000 --> 01:01:52.680] Has there been a surprise for you?
[01:01:52.680 --> 01:01:56.040] Like, are some of those markets again?
[01:01:56.040 --> 01:02:01.000] Like, when I talk to SaaS companies in North America, it's always the same five or six.
[01:02:01.160 --> 01:02:07.000] United States, Canada, Germany, France, Australia, UK, those are the ones.
[01:02:07.000 --> 01:02:13.720] So is there a country where you've seen a lot of growth customers-wise, that surprised you?
[01:02:13.720 --> 01:02:22.280] So there is definitely something huge happening right now in countries you never think about.
[01:02:22.280 --> 01:02:29.720] So for instance, in South America, there is something huge happening right now in Brazil.
[01:02:29.720 --> 01:02:34.520] In Asia as well, there is a big startup ecosystem happening.
[01:02:35.320 --> 01:02:47.480] If you look at Indonesia, Vietnam, something is going on here and you see real startups launching.
[01:02:47.480 --> 01:02:51.560] But are you seeing an influx of customers from those locations?
[01:02:51.560 --> 01:02:52.520] Yeah, yeah.
[01:02:52.520 --> 01:02:57.640] And also, so definitely something is going to happen.
[01:02:58.440 --> 01:03:04.760] Nowadays, all the people can use smartphones, computers.
[01:03:05.320 --> 01:03:09.400] The knowledge tends to be cheap and affordable.
[01:03:09.400 --> 01:03:11.880] You can learn anything on the internet.
[01:03:11.880 --> 01:03:18.320] And you can, for instance, there are more and more startups coming in Africa as well.
[01:03:18.320 --> 01:03:25.200] For instance, there are some countries like Kenya with big startups ecosystems.
[01:03:25.520 --> 01:03:36.320] So the world where the USA were the first software consumers and producers has ended.
[01:03:36.320 --> 01:03:48.720] And we're now in a new world where internet is global, software usage and making is global, and it's totally changing right now.
[01:03:49.120 --> 01:03:50.960] Big opportunity.
[01:03:50.960 --> 01:03:53.040] Well, thanks so much, Baptiste, for this.
[01:03:53.040 --> 01:03:54.240] This was really great.
[01:03:54.240 --> 01:03:59.600] I love so many of your customer insights are so interesting.
[01:03:59.840 --> 01:04:06.160] I think we should do this again because I know I'm going to have more questions as soon as we hang up.
[01:04:06.160 --> 01:04:09.600] But is there anything you want to let our listeners know?
[01:04:09.600 --> 01:04:10.560] Are you hiring?
[01:04:10.560 --> 01:04:16.400] Do you want to anything in particular you want to let folks know before we leave?
[01:04:16.400 --> 01:04:21.120] Yeah, so we hire any kind of T-shaped people.
[01:04:21.120 --> 01:04:25.840] So if you're looking for a company offering...
[01:04:25.840 --> 01:04:28.960] So at CRISP, we don't hire people for roles.
[01:04:28.960 --> 01:04:36.800] We hire people because we think those people are great people and we try to build roles around people.
[01:04:36.800 --> 01:04:42.160] So if you're a developer liking a bit of marketing, CRISP is for you.
[01:04:42.160 --> 01:04:50.160] If you're a developer liking design plus design plus support plus whatever, CRISP is made for you.
[01:04:50.160 --> 01:04:54.800] If you want to talk to people, but also code, CRISP is made for you.
[01:04:54.800 --> 01:05:13.240] For instance, we have Dennis in Portugal who studied at CRISP doing customer support after doing audio engineering school and now is shifting to customer to development because he's so good at it.
[01:05:13.240 --> 01:05:13.720] Yeah.
[01:05:13.720 --> 01:05:22.520] So CRISPR is T-shaped people and if you are this kind of person, you can reach us anytime on CRISP.chat.
[01:05:22.520 --> 01:05:23.400] Awesome.
[01:05:23.400 --> 01:05:24.840] Well, thanks again for doing this.
[01:05:24.840 --> 01:05:28.200] Thanks for staying up late to do the phone call.
[01:05:28.200 --> 01:05:34.680] Thank you for engaging in English for an hour and 14 minutes and using all those CPU cycles.
[01:05:34.680 --> 01:05:38.200] I hope I didn't make you my CPU is over each.
[01:05:38.840 --> 01:05:49.240] If I had to do this whole thing in French, it would be, it would be, you have to think so hard to think, how do I say this in French?
[01:05:49.480 --> 01:05:55.320] It's just, I appreciate you doing the podcast.
[01:05:55.320 --> 01:05:56.520] And yeah, we'll do it again.
[01:05:56.520 --> 01:05:57.640] Thank you very much.
[01:05:57.640 --> 01:05:58.600] Have a good day.
[01:05:58.600 --> 01:06:01.880] Let's give a shout out to our supporters on Patreon.
[01:06:01.880 --> 01:06:25.880] We've got Jason Charnes, Mitchell Davis, Marcel Folly, Alex Payne, Bill Kondo, Anton Zorin, Harris Kenney, Oleg Kulig, Ethan Gunnerson, Ward Sandler, Russell Brown, Noah Prayle, Colin Gray, Austin Lovelace, Michael Sitver, Paul Jarvis, and Jack Ellis, Dan Buddha, Darby Frey, Adam Duvander, Adam Duvander, Dave Junta.
[01:06:25.880 --> 01:06:29.480] You know, John Buddha found a bottle of junta wine the other day.
[01:06:29.480 --> 01:06:31.000] Junta wine.
[01:06:31.000 --> 01:06:32.200] We're going to have a team recheck.
[01:06:32.520 --> 01:06:34.920] We're going to have some junta wine while we're there.
[01:06:34.920 --> 01:06:38.760] And Kyle Fox from getrewardful.com.
[01:06:38.760 --> 01:06:41.800] If you like this episode, share it with a friend.
[01:06:41.800 --> 01:06:43.720] Reach out to Baptiste on Twitter.
[01:06:43.720 --> 01:06:45.360] Let him know that you liked it.
[01:06:45.360 --> 01:06:46.800] And I will talk to you next time.
[01:06:44.760 --> 01:06:47.600] Bye.
[01:07:06.160 --> 01:07:10.000] Podcast hosting is provided by transistor.fm.
[01:07:10.000 --> 01:07:21.280] They host our mp3 files, generate our RSS feed, provide us with analytics, and help us distribute the show to Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and more.
[01:07:21.280 --> 01:07:32.480] If you want to start your own podcast or you want to switch to Transistor, go to transistor.fm/slash Justin and get 15% off your first year.

Prompt 2: Key Takeaways

Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.

Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...". 

Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive. 

IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}

Prompt 3: Segments

Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.

For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)  
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion

IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
  "segments": [
    {
      "segment_title": "Topic Discussion", 
      "timestamp": "01:15:30",
      "key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
      "segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
    }
  ]
}

Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.

Prompt 4: Media Mentions

Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:

Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)  
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)

DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names

IMPORTANT: 
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
  "media_mentions": [
    {
      "title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
      "category": "Book",
      "author_artist": "N/A",
      "context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
      "context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
      "timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
    }
  ]
}

If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}

Full Transcript

[00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:03.360] This podcast is hosted by Transistor.fm.
[00:00:05.280 --> 00:00:06.720] Bonjour Baptiste.
[00:00:06.720 --> 00:00:07.760] Merci Bouco.
[00:00:07.840 --> 00:00:08.720] Thank you very much.
[00:00:08.720 --> 00:00:09.600] Come on sava.
[00:00:09.920 --> 00:00:10.720] Travien.
[00:00:10.880 --> 00:00:11.360] Thank you.
[00:00:11.600 --> 00:00:12.480] Thanks a lot.
[00:00:12.480 --> 00:00:13.280] Nice.
[00:00:17.520 --> 00:00:18.400] Absolutely.
[00:00:18.640 --> 00:00:20.240] Shall we continue in French or French?
[00:00:25.200 --> 00:00:29.760] Je pas be de opportunité.
[00:00:29.760 --> 00:00:31.600] Yeah, your French is very good.
[00:00:31.600 --> 00:01:46.200] It's it is still like ten or like a hundred times better than all the all the American people watching Emily in Paris on Netflix and saying Jadot le turefel Jadot le Louvre oh yeah it's how we say it how we say it yeah levre uh vous le vous couché avec more hundred times better you can speak I'm glad I'm glad I got a little chance hey welcome to build your SAS this is the behind the scenes story of building web apps in 2022 bootstrapping startups building your own thing I'm Justin Jackson and one of the co-founders of transistor.fm today on the show I have Baptiste Jamet who is the co-founder of Crisp crisp.im if you want to check it out they do live chat customer support ticket software help desk software.
[00:01:46.200 --> 00:01:50.760] They compete with massive companies, Zendesk, Help Scout, Intercom.
[00:01:50.760 --> 00:02:02.840] And they're seriously one of the most impressive product companies I've come across it the product itself is super high quality, but the cost to customers, the price is really affordable.
[00:01:59.680 --> 00:02:08.280] We switched to them from Kayako, and we just can't believe how good it is.
[00:02:08.600 --> 00:02:12.120] So I think you're going to get a ton out of this conversation.
[00:02:12.120 --> 00:02:26.040] It's one of a lot of people might not know Baptiste or might not have heard of Crisp, but they are seriously impressive in terms of how profitable they are, how many customers they serve, and what they've been able to achieve.
[00:02:26.040 --> 00:02:29.480] They're located in Nantes, France.
[00:02:29.720 --> 00:02:31.320] Yeah, let's get into this conversation.
[00:02:31.320 --> 00:02:32.280] It's great.
[00:02:32.280 --> 00:02:38.280] So CRISP is basically, we use it as customer support messaging.
[00:02:38.280 --> 00:02:43.960] You have a live chat widget, and then it also has an email component.
[00:02:43.960 --> 00:02:53.160] So you can email support at transistor and it goes into the live chat interface and we can respond to those emails in the same interface.
[00:02:53.160 --> 00:02:56.120] And then it has a ton more.
[00:02:56.440 --> 00:02:58.200] But how did it get started?
[00:02:59.240 --> 00:03:01.560] Did you and your co-founder know each other before?
[00:03:01.560 --> 00:03:04.600] What was the kind of beginning of CRISP?
[00:03:04.840 --> 00:03:05.480] Yeah.
[00:03:05.720 --> 00:03:11.480] Basically, before doing CRISP, we did like several side projects.
[00:03:11.480 --> 00:03:15.400] I mean, I wouldn't say startups, but really side projects.
[00:03:16.680 --> 00:03:20.600] He and I, we started coding like when we were teenagers.
[00:03:20.600 --> 00:03:21.160] Yeah.
[00:03:21.160 --> 00:03:29.640] I started coding when I was 12, doing some video games, and he started coding when he was 16.
[00:03:29.640 --> 00:03:33.080] And he did like a messaging platform.
[00:03:33.080 --> 00:03:37.320] It was like an open source Facebook okay basically.
[00:03:38.760 --> 00:03:42.680] And so we did that when we were teenagers.
[00:03:42.680 --> 00:05:21.880] Then we did some projects that worked some other failed and and basically we met each other at in the in computer science school we were apprentices so we worked in big French companies I used to work at Orange which is the biggest French ISP and he used to work at Ericsson telecom company and basically we were we got bored of our jobs I mean we were we worked in big companies and we felt okay basic customer support and messaging is the core of any company since like thousands of years I mean since like when you think about customer support and when you when you go to the same restaurant every time it's because you have a nice feeling with the restaurant the people who work there and it's the same for any kind of businesses and we felt okay something is happening in the startup ecosystem more and more companies gonna create be created in the next years so we need to have a tool allowing for those companies to get in touch with their customers something which is super cheap reliable and having like a nice feeling we wanted to create like the the the apple of the the customer support the apple of customer support so we we tried doing that by using something really minimalistic.
[00:05:21.880 --> 00:05:28.120] So the first CRISP version was messaging, like a simple chat widget.
[00:05:28.680 --> 00:05:30.760] Just a simple chat widget.
[00:05:31.720 --> 00:05:43.320] No file upload, no emojis, just the core was text messaging with an interface to reply to all the customer queries.
[00:05:43.320 --> 00:05:43.800] Yes.
[00:05:44.120 --> 00:05:47.960] And a chat widget and something crazy minimalistic.
[00:05:47.960 --> 00:05:48.680] You must have been quite...
[00:05:48.680 --> 00:05:50.760] So were you quite young when you were figuring all this out?
[00:05:50.760 --> 00:05:56.760] Were you still in university or you were still in, you were just working your first jobs out of university?
[00:05:56.760 --> 00:06:00.600] So we were like 21 or 22, something like that.
[00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:02.120] So you're quite young.
[00:06:02.120 --> 00:06:04.360] And this is in 2015.
[00:06:04.360 --> 00:06:05.960] Yeah, 2015.
[00:06:05.960 --> 00:06:08.200] Yeah, and so we did that.
[00:06:08.200 --> 00:06:14.360] So we did CRISP just because we really felt that we had to do this.
[00:06:14.920 --> 00:06:20.760] And we didn't like had any vision, like 10 years vision.
[00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:25.960] I mean, I didn't know what SAS was about.
[00:06:25.960 --> 00:06:30.280] I mean, the SAS and software as a service.
[00:06:30.920 --> 00:06:35.480] An investor told me, okay, so CRISP is a SaaS software, right?
[00:06:35.800 --> 00:06:37.240] SAS what?
[00:06:37.480 --> 00:06:38.920] I didn't know that.
[00:06:38.920 --> 00:06:42.440] I didn't know about all the competition, etc.
[00:06:42.440 --> 00:06:45.080] I mean, we wanted to do CRISP, and we did CRISP.
[00:06:45.080 --> 00:06:52.840] And I think because of all our previous experiences, I mean, we did different messaging software before.
[00:06:52.840 --> 00:06:57.800] So by doing CRISP, we knew what we had to do, then the kind of features.
[00:06:57.800 --> 00:07:01.400] I mean, we knew how to do a great chat software.
[00:07:01.400 --> 00:07:02.920] So it saved us a lot of time.
[00:07:03.080 --> 00:07:06.440] Because you'd built some chat software before.
[00:07:06.440 --> 00:07:07.000] Yeah, exactly.
[00:07:07.000 --> 00:07:07.320] Yeah.
[00:07:08.200 --> 00:07:24.480] I'm really curious about, as a couple of young guys in France, how aware were you of the startup ecosystem of, like you said, you hadn't heard of SAS before, but had you heard of, like, had you heard of Intercom?
[00:07:24.480 --> 00:07:26.560] Had you heard of any of that?
[00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:28.080] Were you reading TechCrunch?
[00:07:28.080 --> 00:07:31.040] I wasn't reading TechCrunch basically.
[00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:36.800] So obviously I knew some competitors, but not Intercom.
[00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:39.920] When we started CRISP, I didn't know about Intercom at all.
[00:07:39.920 --> 00:07:44.880] I mean, we didn't do some benchmark or whatever.
[00:07:44.880 --> 00:07:45.760] We did CRISP.
[00:07:45.760 --> 00:07:50.400] I mean, we did CRISP without thinking about all the rest.
[00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:53.040] We did something opinionated.
[00:07:53.040 --> 00:08:02.480] And about the French ecosystem, I think it really started like in 2012.
[00:08:04.400 --> 00:08:09.280] We started to have a strong ecosystem, some podcasts in French.
[00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:30.320] So we had like a startup called the Family, who basically translated all the articles from Polgram and translated everything in French and did some French podcasts about all the YC, etc.
[00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:40.800] So thanks to that, we had all the basically all the knowledge from the Silicon Valley, but in a French way.
[00:08:40.800 --> 00:08:42.240] And it helped a lot.
[00:08:42.640 --> 00:08:45.600] All the French people building startups.
[00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:48.880] Because we came from nowhere.
[00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:58.880] And now we have a pretty strong ecosystem in France with like many, many, many different startups being created.
[00:08:59.360 --> 00:09:03.720] And now I think France is the biggest startup ecosystem in Europe.
[00:09:03.960 --> 00:09:04.600] Oh, really?
[00:09:04.840 --> 00:09:07.480] In fact, Brexit helped us a lot.
[00:09:07.960 --> 00:09:23.400] Because in a sense, that because UK is no longer a part of EU, because we were like the second startup ecosystem, we are now the first one.
[00:09:23.400 --> 00:09:24.040] Wow.
[00:09:24.040 --> 00:09:25.560] Thanks to Brexit.
[00:09:25.560 --> 00:09:29.320] But yeah, still, it's still a pretty big ecosystem.
[00:09:29.320 --> 00:09:37.080] And okay, and so the family was like an accelerator, like a tech accelerator, similar to Y Combinator?
[00:09:37.160 --> 00:09:39.240] Yeah, yeah, it was like the French YC.
[00:09:39.320 --> 00:09:40.840] And did you participate in that?
[00:09:40.840 --> 00:09:45.240] Did you end up taking funding or did you self-fund CRISP?
[00:09:45.240 --> 00:09:47.560] So we self-funded CRISP.
[00:09:47.880 --> 00:09:51.640] So CRISP is still like fully bootstrapped and self-funded.
[00:09:52.040 --> 00:09:57.800] And how did you do that as a couple of guys in their 20s, fresh out of university?
[00:09:57.800 --> 00:10:08.040] So in fact, it was not crazy complicated because what's cool building a startup when you're a student is you know you don't have any wife, you don't have any kids, you don't have any house.
[00:10:08.040 --> 00:10:08.360] Yes.
[00:10:08.600 --> 00:10:10.680] So your life is pretty cheap.
[00:10:10.920 --> 00:10:18.840] So being Raman profitable, I mean, you don't need so much money to be like in life.
[00:10:18.840 --> 00:10:23.320] I mean, to succeed a company when you started, you're a student.
[00:10:23.320 --> 00:10:25.400] It's not crazy complicated.
[00:10:25.400 --> 00:10:31.240] So using like $100, you can stay alive and it's what we did.
[00:10:31.480 --> 00:10:32.120] It's what we did.
[00:10:32.920 --> 00:10:35.480] What infrastructure did you use when you started?
[00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:37.480] Were you on Amazon Web Services?
[00:10:37.480 --> 00:10:38.040] Were you...
[00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:39.160] No, no, no.
[00:10:39.640 --> 00:10:45.600] So Adibo VS is like too expensive, and the value for the money is pretty bad.
[00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:56.320] So we did some benchmarks and we figured out that digital auction servers were like the best value for the money.
[00:10:56.320 --> 00:11:04.400] I mean, the servers were back in 2015 were like 10 times more efficient.
[00:11:04.720 --> 00:11:11.360] So for like five bucks per month, you can like host the entire CRISP infrastructure.
[00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:12.160] Wow.
[00:11:12.400 --> 00:11:20.240] It's not possible anymore, but we try to optimize everything because we were students.
[00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:23.200] We really wanted to have a freemium model.
[00:11:23.520 --> 00:11:33.040] We wanted to have a free plan because we thought it could give us a lot of attraction, users.
[00:11:33.040 --> 00:11:36.960] So we used the free plan as a marketing.
[00:11:37.280 --> 00:11:43.760] And so we had to optimize everything and the servers, etc.
[00:11:43.920 --> 00:11:46.080] Everything was super optimized.
[00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:54.480] So basically, it was easy to get started because hosting CRISP costed us like 50 euros per month, something like that.
[00:11:54.800 --> 00:11:55.360] Yeah.
[00:11:55.680 --> 00:11:59.040] And we knew how to create CRISPR.
[00:11:59.040 --> 00:12:01.760] I mean, technically, how to create CRISP.
[00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:07.040] We tried to do the marketing ourselves, customer support.
[00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:13.440] So during like one year and a half, we didn't have any employees, etc.
[00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:15.120] Pretty lean.
[00:12:15.120 --> 00:12:22.600] And we started to be profitable just being Valerie and I doing this.
[00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:23.760] Just the two of you.
[00:12:23.840 --> 00:12:26.720] I mean, what's interesting is you had this insight.
[00:12:27.040 --> 00:12:37.160] Even having not heard of Intercom, you had this insight that customer messaging was going to be big, that every business needs some form of messaging.
[00:12:37.480 --> 00:12:58.200] And you said maybe you noticed this at restaurants, like restaurants with good customer service, restaurants that, you know, but was that like, were you thinking of, when you were observing these things, were you thinking of a restaurant that answers the phone, or you're just thinking of a restaurant that onboards clients into the restaurant itself?
[00:12:58.200 --> 00:13:02.920] What were your observations that made you feel like this was worth pursuing?
[00:13:02.920 --> 00:13:16.520] So when we started CRISP, we felt, okay, maybe we could sell CRISP to restaurants, actually, having something handling email, phone calls, chat, et cetera.
[00:13:16.520 --> 00:13:21.800] And messaging chat was just the first step of this plan.
[00:13:21.800 --> 00:13:33.880] And when we started with just chat, the market was so huge that we had to do so many things, so many features, so many stuff was going on.
[00:13:33.880 --> 00:13:37.800] So going to chat took us a lot of time.
[00:13:37.800 --> 00:13:41.400] But because the market is so big.
[00:13:42.520 --> 00:13:52.120] And then, in fact, in terms of messaging, and in terms of customers, you had two kind of customers.
[00:13:52.120 --> 00:14:01.480] The customers who phone companies first, and the customers who want asynchronous messaging.
[00:14:01.480 --> 00:14:14.320] So nowadays, most of the people who are under like 35, maybe under 40, were born with internet and iPhones, etc.
[00:14:15.280 --> 00:14:19.680] So for them, they prefer to chat with companies.
[00:14:14.120 --> 00:14:20.880] It's quite a thing for them.
[00:14:21.040 --> 00:14:22.880] They want to chat with companies.
[00:14:22.880 --> 00:14:25.200] They don't want to do phone calls, etc.
[00:14:25.200 --> 00:14:25.760] That's right.
[00:14:25.760 --> 00:14:29.280] Like if they'll avoid, they'll do anything but getting on the phone.
[00:14:29.280 --> 00:14:30.720] Like, don't make me call.
[00:14:30.720 --> 00:14:34.800] Yeah, they're scared of taking phone calls.
[00:14:34.800 --> 00:14:36.160] But boomers love it.
[00:14:37.680 --> 00:14:38.800] Yeah, exactly.
[00:14:38.960 --> 00:14:44.240] And the open is the opposite, the boomers loved phone calls.
[00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:46.160] And so you had this insight.
[00:14:46.160 --> 00:14:47.680] How did you know the market was big?
[00:14:47.680 --> 00:14:52.160] Like you put CRISP out and you just started seeing traction right away?
[00:14:52.160 --> 00:14:57.920] What were the indicators that the market was big, that there was a lot of potential customers there?
[00:14:57.920 --> 00:15:04.800] And when you say the market is big, were you still thinking of restaurants or were you thinking of just any company on the internet?
[00:15:04.800 --> 00:15:10.640] So basically, when we started CRISP, we thought we don't know anything about the market.
[00:15:10.960 --> 00:15:17.200] So to get started, we're going to try with solopronters, freelancers.
[00:15:17.520 --> 00:15:20.960] We're going to try using this market first.
[00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:25.840] And then we're going to collect all their feedback and we're going to upmarket.
[00:15:25.840 --> 00:15:30.640] So small startups, SMBs, and then bigger SMBs.
[00:15:30.640 --> 00:15:32.080] And it's what we did.
[00:15:32.080 --> 00:15:37.840] Every try we upmarket and now we are selling to enterprise customers.
[00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:45.520] So when we started CRISP, we had maybe 10 initial users and we focused on those 10 initial users.
[00:15:45.520 --> 00:15:48.800] Those users gave us a lot of different feedback.
[00:15:49.680 --> 00:15:56.560] So rather than focusing on traction acquisition, we just focused on retention.
[00:15:56.560 --> 00:15:57.200] Got it.
[00:15:57.520 --> 00:16:00.000] To make those 10 customers happy.
[00:16:01.160 --> 00:16:14.360] And what we figured out is that those 10 users talked about CRISP to other companies, and we started to have 15 users, then 20, then 50, 100.
[00:16:14.680 --> 00:16:19.320] And then one of those initial users featured us on ProductHunt.
[00:16:19.320 --> 00:16:20.120] Okay, yeah.
[00:16:20.440 --> 00:16:24.920] And back, so in 2015, ProductHunt was a closed community.
[00:16:24.920 --> 00:16:28.760] And the guy didn't tell us about that.
[00:16:28.760 --> 00:16:35.880] And on Sunday, we were on CRISPR answering some users, and boom.
[00:16:35.880 --> 00:16:38.120] So all the analytics, etc.
[00:16:38.680 --> 00:16:42.760] Everything went crazy, like really crazy.
[00:16:43.080 --> 00:16:46.600] Like traffic, like people coming in, people asking questions.
[00:16:46.600 --> 00:16:50.280] Yeah, yeah, we had two busy days.
[00:16:50.280 --> 00:16:58.840] So I had like to work during nights and my colleague during days, and we did like shifts like that.
[00:16:58.840 --> 00:16:59.320] Wow.
[00:16:59.640 --> 00:17:04.040] So yeah, we could like handle all the traction.
[00:17:04.040 --> 00:17:12.440] And then we tried to collect all the feedback and to make all the users happy about that.
[00:17:12.760 --> 00:17:21.000] And yeah, in the next product hunt was something big for us because it really helped to get traction.
[00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:25.800] Yeah, and that was fairly because that was also in 2015.
[00:17:25.800 --> 00:17:28.200] So you launched.
[00:17:28.200 --> 00:17:30.440] By the way, how did you find those first 10 people?
[00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:31.720] Where did they come from?
[00:17:31.720 --> 00:17:41.960] So I had a friend who contacted like a few companies, cold emailing, basically, telling them you don't have any customer service.
[00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:44.520] I mean, your contact form is broken.
[00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:46.000] You should use CRISPR.
[00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:46.720] Wow.
[00:17:47.040 --> 00:17:49.840] And the next day, we had 10 users.
[00:17:49.840 --> 00:17:51.520] Wow, that's a good friend.
[00:17:51.520 --> 00:17:52.720] Yeah, very good friend.
[00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:58.640] Yeah, yeah, because initially, CRISP, I mean, no one could sign up on CRISP.
[00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:02.240] I mean, with Valerian, we were typical engineers.
[00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:04.080] No, it's not perfect yet.
[00:18:04.080 --> 00:18:04.640] Yes.
[00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:06.720] It's password protected.
[00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:10.320] So the homepage was password protected.
[00:18:10.320 --> 00:18:15.760] And so this friend told me, but can I sign up on CRISPR?
[00:18:15.760 --> 00:18:16.720] No, you can't.
[00:18:16.720 --> 00:18:18.240] It's password protected.
[00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:19.440] Oh, man.
[00:18:20.560 --> 00:18:22.000] Give me the password.
[00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:29.280] And I told Valerian, okay, could we maybe stop password protecting CRISP?
[00:18:29.280 --> 00:18:32.720] And yeah, okay, let's remove that shit.
[00:18:34.320 --> 00:18:41.360] So yeah, nowadays, many people had a look to the movie about Facebook.
[00:18:41.600 --> 00:18:43.200] I don't remember the name.
[00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:44.880] The social network.
[00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:46.400] The social network.
[00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:54.880] And most of the people think that launching a company is like emailing thousands of people and then boom.
[00:18:54.880 --> 00:19:00.080] Your company is created and you have traction.
[00:19:00.080 --> 00:19:08.960] But in fact, starting a company is like launching your company every day during like a few weeks.
[00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:09.760] Yes.
[00:19:09.760 --> 00:19:11.680] There is no D-Day.
[00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:12.240] Yeah, yeah.
[00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:14.560] It's a slow opening.
[00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:16.160] Slow opening.
[00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:28.080] And you felt like, did it feel like, you mean like every single day you came in and you were like, okay, well, like today we're going to take off the password protection and that's going to be like another launch.
[00:19:28.080 --> 00:19:28.960] Is that what you mean?
[00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:29.200] Yeah.
[00:19:29.080 --> 00:19:29.800] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:19:29.800 --> 00:19:31.000] It's not even a launch.
[00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:32.760] I mean, it's just one more step.
[00:19:32.760 --> 00:19:33.080] Yes.
[00:19:33.080 --> 00:19:33.560] Yeah.
[00:19:33.560 --> 00:19:33.880] Yeah.
[00:19:29.520 --> 00:19:33.960] Yeah.
[00:19:34.120 --> 00:19:38.040] So we moved the password and the next day, boom, 10 users.
[00:19:38.200 --> 00:19:41.640] It's really interesting that you got started with the cold emailing.
[00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:46.280] If you think about it, was that a hard step for you to get somebody to help you with that?
[00:19:46.600 --> 00:19:50.760] Did you have any kind of sales or marketing inclinations?
[00:19:50.760 --> 00:19:51.320] No, no.
[00:19:51.320 --> 00:19:59.960] I mean, we were like two typical engineers, developers, not knowing anything about marketing, SEO, etc.
[00:20:00.120 --> 00:20:03.240] Not wanting to talk to people at all.
[00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:03.800] Yeah.
[00:20:03.800 --> 00:20:09.320] So, yeah, when we started to have users, we had to split the roles.
[00:20:09.320 --> 00:20:17.880] And my colleague Valeron, more doing code, doing more code, and me doing more marketing and growth.
[00:20:17.880 --> 00:20:24.040] So I tried to learn everything about marketing, growth hacking.
[00:20:24.040 --> 00:20:30.440] So, and even today, if I look at your about page, there's you and is it Valeron?
[00:20:30.440 --> 00:20:31.000] How do you say it?
[00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:31.720] Valerian?
[00:20:31.720 --> 00:20:36.760] Yeah, yeah, in French, you pronounce the R, but in English, I think you would say Valeron.
[00:20:36.920 --> 00:20:51.080] Yeah, so you two, so he's more technical, and then you have Antoine, who's also doing marketing and sales, and then you have some more software engineers, so and then a content manager.
[00:20:51.080 --> 00:20:54.040] So, did that sales and marketing grow over time?
[00:20:54.200 --> 00:21:03.720] So we went from zero to 100K MRO, just being the two tours.
[00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:04.680] Wow.
[00:21:04.680 --> 00:21:06.120] How long did that take?
[00:21:07.080 --> 00:21:08.040] Three years?
[00:21:08.040 --> 00:21:11.400] Zero to 100K in three years with just the two of you.
[00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:13.320] And how did, let's just stop there for a second?
[00:21:13.320 --> 00:21:14.280] How did that feel?
[00:21:14.280 --> 00:21:19.120] So you launch, you got 10 customers, then someone features you on Product Hunt.
[00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:21.760] How many customers do you think you got out of Product Hunt?
[00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:24.800] 5,000, something like that.
[00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:26.080] 5,000.
[00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:27.120] Wow.
[00:21:27.120 --> 00:21:30.880] Yeah, yeah, but not all the users were paying for CRISP.
[00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:32.880] Okay, so you had some free users then?
[00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:37.760] Yeah, yeah, 5,000 users is still a lot.
[00:21:37.760 --> 00:21:47.440] And when we talk about Product Hunt, we talk about people who have a big impact in the startup industry.
[00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:54.560] And those users are really different to regular SMBs.
[00:21:54.560 --> 00:22:00.400] I mean, they're going to spread the word about your product.
[00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:09.120] So initially, yeah, maybe 5,000 users, but thanks to all those users, we had a lot more.
[00:22:09.360 --> 00:22:11.680] Yeah, you must have started getting a lot of word of mouth.
[00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:12.720] Yeah, exactly, yeah.
[00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:23.600] And I mean, it's nice that at this time, 2015, you know, the SaaS ecosystem is much more mature.
[00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:29.040] Customer support ecosystem is much more mature.
[00:22:29.040 --> 00:22:34.640] There's Zendesk, there's, you know, all these big players in that space.
[00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:40.320] And so now people are looking for alternatives, and you folks come in.
[00:22:40.320 --> 00:22:45.360] What's always been interesting about Crisp is the price.
[00:22:45.360 --> 00:22:54.480] You start free, and then you you give an incredible amount of value for the price that you charge.
[00:22:55.160 --> 00:22:58.800] How What was your instinct there?
[00:22:58.800 --> 00:23:01.000] Like, why make it so affordable?
[00:23:01.320 --> 00:23:15.080] Why, you know, because you know intercom is thousands and thousands of dollars per month for you know They do different things, but you know, that's what people are often comparing.
[00:23:15.080 --> 00:23:19.000] You must get a lot of people switching from intercom to crisp, I'm imagining.
[00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:26.920] We felt we need to reduce the decision making for users wanting to use a product like CRISP.
[00:23:26.920 --> 00:23:34.920] You initially, we had four different plans and you had a different usage level between all the plans.
[00:23:34.920 --> 00:23:46.360] So we had the free plan, we had CRISPR Pro, CRISP Business, and Enterprise, maybe we had like two different plans.
[00:23:46.360 --> 00:23:57.960] And we tried to reduce decision making by just having a free plan, a cheap plan, and like a more expensive plan, but with all the features included.
[00:23:57.960 --> 00:23:58.120] Yes.
[00:23:58.360 --> 00:24:00.680] Included, which was the CRISP Unlimited plan.
[00:24:01.320 --> 00:24:08.840] And when we released the CRISPR Unlimited plan, we had like four times more users on this plan.
[00:24:09.080 --> 00:24:09.720] Got it.
[00:24:10.680 --> 00:24:16.600] All the users were choosing this plan rather than the CRISP Pro one.
[00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:23.800] So, and we had a few friends doing unlimited plans, and in fact, it worked a lot.
[00:24:25.480 --> 00:24:37.080] And in France, we did that because in France we have I think the unlimited usage is quite popular in France.
[00:24:37.320 --> 00:24:40.280] For instance, it started with phones.
[00:24:40.280 --> 00:24:45.000] And basically, it was like crazy in France when he did that.
[00:24:45.280 --> 00:24:48.800] And internet went popular thanks to that.
[00:24:48.800 --> 00:24:54.720] And we wanted to do something similar, but for SaaS.
[00:24:54.720 --> 00:25:01.440] And we thought, okay, if we want to make Chris popular, it needs to be a no-brainer deal.
[00:25:01.760 --> 00:25:11.920] So if you don't have any money and just you start a company, use Chris for free, because anyway, you don't have the money to pay for any SaaS.
[00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:14.240] So better give the product for free.
[00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:18.000] And anyway, maybe you're going to be successful one day.
[00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:19.680] And it's how it works.
[00:25:20.320 --> 00:25:25.840] And then we try to have a plan for any kind of company.
[00:25:25.840 --> 00:25:32.720] For John and I, this is exactly how it worked because, you know, we started just the two of us, just like you two.
[00:25:33.040 --> 00:25:35.600] And we're bootstrapping this, we're self-funding it.
[00:25:35.760 --> 00:25:37.920] John especially doesn't like spending money.
[00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:40.560] So anytime he can save money, he likes it.
[00:25:40.560 --> 00:25:43.440] And we started with Kayako.
[00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:46.880] And we started with Kayako because it was free.
[00:25:46.880 --> 00:25:52.480] So it was like, are we going to use intercom and spend, whatever it was, hundreds of dollars per month?
[00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:54.960] It would have been more than our hosting bill.
[00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:56.960] Or are we going to start on something that's free?
[00:25:56.960 --> 00:25:58.960] We started on something that was free.
[00:25:58.960 --> 00:26:05.440] The problem with Kayako is that the price was low, but the product quality was quite low.
[00:26:05.440 --> 00:26:07.200] It was just always had bugs.
[00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:08.640] We were always having downtime.
[00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:10.880] We were always having trouble.
[00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:13.760] And then we're looking for alternatives.
[00:26:13.760 --> 00:26:19.920] And every, you know, like we would have downtime, and then every three months we'd be like, you know, should we look at something else?
[00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:25.440] We'd look at intercom and then we'd look at Help Scout and you know, all these other tools.
[00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:27.200] And it never felt right.
[00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:31.560] Like a lot of the tools didn't have good live chat, which is what we wanted.
[00:26:31.560 --> 00:26:33.480] And then we found Crisp.
[00:26:33.560 --> 00:26:35.320] It got recommended to us.
[00:26:35.320 --> 00:26:42.040] And I just remember like looking at it and going, there's no way that we're gonna get all of this for this price.
[00:26:42.040 --> 00:26:45.400] But we signed up for the free plan and tried it.
[00:26:45.400 --> 00:26:48.200] And we're just like, this software is solid.
[00:26:48.200 --> 00:26:51.240] Like, this is really good software.
[00:26:51.240 --> 00:26:55.480] And it's so much more affordable than the alternatives.
[00:26:55.480 --> 00:26:57.960] And you're right, it was just a no-brainer.
[00:26:57.960 --> 00:27:07.560] And I think what's interesting is in the startup ecosystem, there's a lot of ideas about maximizing your price.
[00:27:07.560 --> 00:27:11.000] So like intercom is maximizing their price.
[00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:11.400] Yeah.
[00:27:11.720 --> 00:27:15.160] But for SMBs, that's the wrong answer.
[00:27:15.160 --> 00:27:29.320] If you're looking, if you're trying to serve SMBs, it's the wrong answer because we can't afford intercom prices and it's way more likely we're going to recommend you to other people.
[00:27:29.320 --> 00:27:37.560] So I've recommended Crisp so many times just because it's like, this is an amazing software, and you won't believe the value you get for the price.
[00:27:37.560 --> 00:27:39.320] Like it's just a no-brainer.
[00:27:39.320 --> 00:27:41.080] You've got to get on it.
[00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:54.120] And so I'm interested to know, like, have, do you feel like that trade-off has paid off of you just get way more word of mouth, way more uptake because of the price?
[00:27:54.360 --> 00:28:01.880] I think raising your price like two times per year can work for VC-funded companies.
[00:28:02.600 --> 00:28:12.520] For a reason, is they have so much growth that they just don't care about paying two times more for what they paid before.
[00:28:12.840 --> 00:28:14.560] And it's even not their money.
[00:28:14.120 --> 00:28:16.080] I mean, it's the VC's money.
[00:28:16.400 --> 00:28:22.160] So they just spend, spend on the people, spend on the software, spend on ads.
[00:28:22.160 --> 00:28:23.920] They spend, basically.
[00:28:24.240 --> 00:28:34.560] So I think in the comms customers are mostly VC funded companies and just they just don't have the time to switch.
[00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:38.240] So, okay, they pay, they pay.
[00:28:38.560 --> 00:28:42.400] But SMBs, it's quite different.
[00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:48.000] And at CRISP, we really craft a software for SMBs.
[00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:51.600] Now we start to have enterprise users.
[00:28:51.600 --> 00:28:55.360] But really CRISP, what made us is SMBs.
[00:28:55.360 --> 00:28:59.520] I mean, regular SMBs, not technical startups.
[00:28:59.760 --> 00:29:06.240] Really, we are talking about German industry.
[00:29:06.560 --> 00:29:07.920] I mean, regular SMBs.
[00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:09.600] Like mainstream businesses.
[00:29:09.920 --> 00:29:11.520] So not necessarily tech companies.
[00:29:12.320 --> 00:29:15.280] You're talking about retail stores, restaurants.
[00:29:15.760 --> 00:29:17.600] Regular e-commerce.
[00:29:18.080 --> 00:29:18.480] Okay.
[00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:18.880] Yeah.
[00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:25.360] Many different companies you wouldn't even think about.
[00:29:25.360 --> 00:29:32.240] So for instance, during COVID-19 pandemic, we started to have like funny usage of CRISP.
[00:29:32.240 --> 00:29:34.880] For instance, churches using CRISP.
[00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:42.400] Yeah, because churches were closed and people couldn't confess anymore physically.
[00:29:42.400 --> 00:29:45.840] They would just jump on, they would jump on CRISP with the priest.
[00:29:45.840 --> 00:29:46.400] Yeah, exactly.
[00:29:46.400 --> 00:29:46.800] Yeah.
[00:29:46.800 --> 00:29:47.280] Wow.
[00:29:47.280 --> 00:29:47.640] Exactly.
[00:29:47.520 --> 00:29:47.800] Yeah.
[00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:50.560] Just start confessing their sins.
[00:29:51.040 --> 00:29:58.720] And the thing is, the priest could use your magic tool to look at what they were looking at on their browser and see how sinful they really were.
[00:29:58.720 --> 00:29:59.360] Yeah, yeah.
[00:29:59.360 --> 00:30:01.160] And we also have a video.
[00:29:59.600 --> 00:30:05.960] We also have a video chat system with CRUSP.
[00:30:06.600 --> 00:30:11.000] So they can do a live conversation as well.
[00:30:11.320 --> 00:30:13.960] Okay, so it's a big confession.
[00:30:15.160 --> 00:30:17.480] It won't work with chat.
[00:30:18.040 --> 00:30:18.440] Let's go.
[00:30:18.600 --> 00:30:19.240] Let's do a call.
[00:30:19.240 --> 00:30:20.120] Let's have a video.
[00:30:20.520 --> 00:30:22.200] That is hilarious.
[00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:28.280] So do you find it difficult having such a wide variety of users?
[00:30:28.840 --> 00:30:41.800] Because there's definitely companies in the knowledge base space and the customer support space and the live chat space that go specifically for technology companies.
[00:30:41.800 --> 00:30:45.240] So you have all sorts of customers using it in all sorts of different ways.
[00:30:45.240 --> 00:30:47.960] Has that been a challenge or does it not really matter?
[00:30:47.960 --> 00:30:51.320] Does it not really matter what they're using it for?
[00:30:51.320 --> 00:30:57.320] So sometimes for those users, they're the first SaaS software they're paying for.
[00:30:57.880 --> 00:31:02.440] I mean, they never paid for any software before.
[00:31:02.760 --> 00:31:07.400] So they don't know stuff like what the seats are.
[00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:12.600] For instance, in the live chat industry, they used to pay per seat.
[00:31:12.920 --> 00:31:16.760] So they're not familiar with that.
[00:31:16.760 --> 00:31:24.280] And so it's why we've tried to make CRISPR as CRISPR as possible, as simple as possible.
[00:31:24.280 --> 00:31:28.040] It's to satisfy this kind of customers.
[00:31:28.040 --> 00:31:36.600] And now we have a few integrations as well made for this kind of industries.
[00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:42.760] For instance, we have a few integrations for like niche softwares.
[00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:47.120] For instance, CRMs for specific industries.
[00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:53.200] And now CRISP tends to be the iPhone of the customer service.
[00:31:53.200 --> 00:32:02.480] I mean, it's a tool where you can plug apps that can multiply the experience of customer service.
[00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:12.880] So you can like connect your Stripe account on CRISP, and when someone has a chat with you, you can immediately find all the invoices.
[00:32:15.360 --> 00:32:23.040] And we are now connected with different invoicing systems, including niche systems.
[00:32:23.360 --> 00:32:26.720] And it's how we try to tech industries.
[00:32:26.720 --> 00:32:27.200] Yeah.
[00:32:28.880 --> 00:32:31.520] Because you have a pretty small team still.
[00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:36.800] How are you able to ship so much at this quality level?
[00:32:36.800 --> 00:32:42.800] Like, you have probably, you might have 100 times less employees than some of your customers.
[00:32:42.800 --> 00:32:48.720] So how are you able to build this quality software and keep releasing this?
[00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:53.440] Like, whenever I get your newsletters, I'm always like, how are they shipping so much?
[00:32:53.440 --> 00:32:56.240] Like, how are they doing all this with such a small team?
[00:32:56.400 --> 00:33:01.600] But it's because we're a small team that we can achieve great things.
[00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:08.720] I don't think, and it's not possible to do a baby with nine women in one month.
[00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:10.640] It's the same for features.
[00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:29.800] I mean, it's not by bringing more developers solving the same issue, you're gonna reduce the amount of time required to solve the problem because there is some decision making, some meetings required, unit tests.
[00:33:29.440 --> 00:33:33.480] You know, scaling people is hard.
[00:33:34.120 --> 00:33:50.840] So, we try at CRISP to find T-shaped people, people with an entrepreneurship mindset, and it's a lot easier because you don't need to spend your time doing calls, etc.
[00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:51.480] Meetings.
[00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:51.960] Yes.
[00:33:51.960 --> 00:33:54.040] Just we get the things done.
[00:33:54.040 --> 00:33:55.880] Okay, there is a problem.
[00:33:55.880 --> 00:33:57.400] Let's solve the problem.
[00:33:57.400 --> 00:34:03.160] I mean, you are in charge of solving the problem alone, and it's all it works.
[00:34:03.400 --> 00:34:04.760] And it's worked so far.
[00:34:05.080 --> 00:34:08.200] Hey, how come your team doesn't have their own podcast?
[00:34:08.200 --> 00:34:13.160] Head over to Transistor and use my coupon, transistor.fm/slash justin.
[00:34:13.160 --> 00:34:17.160] You'll get 15% off your first year of podcast hosting.
[00:34:17.800 --> 00:34:36.600] And when you say T-shaped, you mean somebody who is deep in one area, like has deep knowledge in programming or whatever, but is also broad in that they could also understand customer support, they might also understand some marketing, they might understand design, etc.
[00:34:36.840 --> 00:34:37.640] Yeah, exactly.
[00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:39.160] Interesting.
[00:34:39.160 --> 00:34:44.360] And so, right now, your team is how many engineers on your team?
[00:34:44.360 --> 00:34:45.880] Hey, we are four.
[00:34:46.520 --> 00:34:50.680] Four engineers, including Valeria and I.
[00:34:50.840 --> 00:35:03.080] Okay, and then it looks like you have another, you have Antoine and Leo on content, and then you've got Leia who's partnerships.
[00:35:03.080 --> 00:35:05.720] Is that like figuring out enterprise deals?
[00:35:05.720 --> 00:35:08.600] Not only, but we start to have agencies.
[00:35:08.920 --> 00:35:13.880] So we have a lot of different agencies using CRISP, freelancers, etc.
[00:35:14.200 --> 00:35:14.680] Okay.
[00:35:14.880 --> 00:35:25.360] So we try to figure out who could recommend CRISP for clients and having special deals for them.
[00:35:25.680 --> 00:35:26.400] Got it.
[00:35:26.720 --> 00:35:34.080] In terms of marketing, what has been have there been some other things that have really worked for you?
[00:35:34.080 --> 00:35:42.880] Like where you've pulled the lever and you're like, this is this brought us in a whole new group of business that we wouldn't have had before.
[00:35:43.200 --> 00:35:44.320] Is there anything like that?
[00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:46.080] Or is it just gradual?
[00:35:46.080 --> 00:35:47.760] Like is it mostly word of mouth?
[00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:51.840] Where are you really focusing your marketing and energy these days?
[00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:54.320] It changed a lot over the time.
[00:35:54.640 --> 00:35:56.080] It changed a lot.
[00:35:56.080 --> 00:36:01.600] So when we started CRISP, basically we didn't have any strategy about marketing, et cetera.
[00:36:01.600 --> 00:36:12.320] Just like a few users using CRISP, word of mouth, and we tried to iterate CRISP on them about all their needs.
[00:36:12.640 --> 00:36:20.640] Then we started to have traction, more users using CRISPR, using the free plan and recommending CRISP.
[00:36:20.960 --> 00:36:29.840] So we worked a lot on the product and especially around onboarding to better understand what the people needed.
[00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:30.560] Yes.
[00:36:30.560 --> 00:36:35.600] And what was in their mind when they wanted to use a tool like CRISPR?
[00:36:36.880 --> 00:36:39.760] So we did the bottom of the funeral.
[00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:44.960] I mean, all those people needed a chat software right now.
[00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:52.240] It was their job finding a chat software to get the things done today.
[00:36:52.560 --> 00:37:01.960] And it's what we offered them by simplifying the user experience when the users sign up for CRISP.
[00:37:02.200 --> 00:37:09.320] And we try to optimize all the steps so you can get the things done immediately.
[00:37:09.320 --> 00:37:10.760] And it worked a lot.
[00:37:10.760 --> 00:37:20.360] And we figured out by doing that let's so 50% of the users were still using CRISP the next day.
[00:37:20.360 --> 00:37:21.080] Wow.
[00:37:21.320 --> 00:37:34.760] I mean that insight is what's interesting is that instead of starting with a marketing tactic, you said first of all, let's just figure out where people are at when they land on our doorstep.
[00:37:34.760 --> 00:37:37.880] Yeah, CRISP is still about product-led growth.
[00:37:37.880 --> 00:37:49.000] It's still, but with some magic sauce, spicy marketing sauce around it that makes a great multiplier around.
[00:37:49.000 --> 00:37:51.960] I think marketing is a great multiplier.
[00:37:51.960 --> 00:38:05.320] So if you have a good traction like that, using your product, I mean, succeeding a company is all about product market feed and having a great product for an audience.
[00:38:05.320 --> 00:38:08.360] If you have that, okay, you're gonna have some traction.
[00:38:08.680 --> 00:38:13.000] Marketing is doing from that to that, something like that.
[00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:14.840] Yeah, it's an amplifier.
[00:38:14.840 --> 00:38:16.920] An amplifier, exactly.
[00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:23.000] And and so we we achieved doing that until 100K.
[00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:26.840] So I I used to arrive at a plateau of knowledge.
[00:38:27.240 --> 00:38:30.120] Marketing is was not like my thing.
[00:38:30.120 --> 00:38:33.160] I did that because I had to do that.
[00:38:33.160 --> 00:38:35.880] But it's not my passion.
[00:38:35.880 --> 00:38:47.760] So we tried to find people and Antoine who joined the team in 2018 to solve, to reach the next milestone.
[00:38:44.600 --> 00:38:50.880] And we started to work on SEO.
[00:38:50.880 --> 00:38:53.200] Back in the days, no SEO at all.
[00:38:53.200 --> 00:38:55.520] I mean, no SEO.
[00:38:55.840 --> 00:39:00.400] So we had to iterate on a lot of stuff.
[00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:09.840] We tried paid advertising as well, copywriting, and yeah, but still the bottom of the funeral.
[00:39:10.400 --> 00:39:22.320] And now, as we grow to more enterprise deals, more users willing to pay more, we need to have a better branding around CRISPR.
[00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:34.720] So users not requiring to use a support system right now, but maybe in six months, a year, can know about our brand.
[00:39:34.720 --> 00:39:41.360] They can know that CRISP is good for them, and maybe one day they're going to use a tool like us.
[00:39:41.360 --> 00:39:42.880] And they're going to think about CRISP.
[00:39:43.120 --> 00:39:49.680] Of those levers, SEO, ads, has anything worked better or worse?
[00:39:49.680 --> 00:39:55.200] Like, for example, we've at Transistor, we've never really been able to make ads work for us.
[00:39:55.440 --> 00:39:58.080] What's been your experience with ads, SEO?
[00:39:58.080 --> 00:39:59.440] What's been working the best?
[00:39:59.440 --> 00:40:00.960] I think it's complicated.
[00:40:01.920 --> 00:40:05.520] Very complicated and expensive.
[00:40:06.560 --> 00:40:09.040] SEO is like magic.
[00:40:09.040 --> 00:40:19.040] I mean, magic in the terms of it can be super good in terms of growth, but it's super dark in the main chain.
[00:40:19.120 --> 00:40:26.920] I mean, the way it works for me, it's still not 100% I I still don't understand everything.
[00:40:27.560 --> 00:40:36.120] And even people working 100% of the time on SEO, they don't understand what's going on.
[00:40:36.120 --> 00:40:37.240] Yeah, what's in the dark box.
[00:40:37.720 --> 00:40:42.440] But there is still things to do.
[00:40:42.600 --> 00:40:50.040] I don't think you need to focus a lot on SEO at the beginning to succeed something.
[00:40:50.360 --> 00:40:54.600] But at some point, you know, SEO is like the multiplier, the amplifier.
[00:40:54.600 --> 00:40:57.240] Yeah, yeah, I think that's such a key insight.
[00:40:57.240 --> 00:41:05.800] And again, just to go back to this insight of you realized that when people landed on Crisp, they needed to make a decision today.
[00:41:05.800 --> 00:41:10.360] It was their job to find customer support software today.
[00:41:10.360 --> 00:41:15.320] Hey, Janet, I need you to go and research the best ones and just choose one.
[00:41:15.320 --> 00:41:17.000] It was similar for Transistor, too.
[00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:21.800] It's like, you know, the third time Kayako went down, we were like, that's it.
[00:41:21.800 --> 00:41:26.600] Like, today's the day I'm going to go and research all of the possibilities.
[00:41:26.600 --> 00:41:28.680] I go in three different Slack groups.
[00:41:28.680 --> 00:41:32.600] I say, hey, what is everybody using for live chat?
[00:41:32.920 --> 00:41:35.400] Crisp gets mentioned in that list.
[00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:36.440] I go check it out.
[00:41:36.440 --> 00:41:39.080] I sign up for a free trial.
[00:41:39.080 --> 00:41:41.400] And now I'm in.
[00:41:42.040 --> 00:41:44.440] But I also want to close the loop fast.
[00:41:44.440 --> 00:41:47.960] I don't want to be deciding what software we're going to use forever.
[00:41:47.960 --> 00:41:51.480] I just want to make a decision and move on.
[00:41:51.480 --> 00:42:07.400] And getting in the customer's mindset the way you did, understanding that if you can improve that initial experience and that onboarding, that's the piece that so much software doesn't get.
[00:42:07.400 --> 00:42:10.600] They don't understand where our customers are at.
[00:42:10.600 --> 00:42:13.720] What brought them to your site today?
[00:42:14.040 --> 00:42:26.240] Like what brought them there, what mindset are they in, and once you understand that, you can configure your onboarding to best just like get them in the product and get them paying.
[00:42:26.240 --> 00:42:32.480] And that's a lot of the battle because you can have a huge funnel with tons and tons of people coming in.
[00:42:32.480 --> 00:42:47.680] But if you're not able to make those key moments, yeah, and for instance, I think regular industries, for instance, if you think about the food industry and chocolate bars, have a break, have a Kit Kat.
[00:42:48.000 --> 00:43:00.240] It's such great tagline because I think it was created in the 50s, 57.
[00:43:00.240 --> 00:43:10.080] And the idea about that is what the users, I mean, the people buying our product are doing when they buy our product.
[00:43:10.080 --> 00:43:16.720] And in fact, if you think about chocolate bars, people try to achieve a task.
[00:43:16.720 --> 00:43:27.440] They're hardworking in their company, they try to solve a bug, they try to lawyers doing paperwork, etc.
[00:43:28.240 --> 00:43:30.080] And they want to get the things done.
[00:43:30.640 --> 00:43:44.240] And they go to the machine, they use $1 to get the product, and boom, they eat the product in like five seconds, and boom, they go back to work.
[00:43:44.240 --> 00:43:49.520] It's not about the taste, it's just about doing the get the thing.
[00:43:49.680 --> 00:43:50.320] That's right.
[00:43:50.320 --> 00:43:53.040] And it worked so well.
[00:43:53.360 --> 00:43:55.280] I mean, have a break, have a Kit Kat.
[00:43:55.280 --> 00:44:11.640] It's just a chocolate bar, but it's a great tagline because the marketing guys thinking about that knew the customers and what the customer is, where what the what were their goals, what they wanted.
[00:44:11.880 --> 00:44:12.760] The context.
[00:44:12.760 --> 00:44:20.840] This is in the jobs to be done, they call, they say, What are people hiring the product to do?
[00:44:21.160 --> 00:44:23.880] And there's so many layers to that.
[00:44:23.880 --> 00:44:40.520] Like, if you're in a company and let's say it's a 20-person agency, and your boss says, We need to get live chat software for this customer, and then says, Janet, you go research, you know, the live chat software.
[00:44:40.520 --> 00:44:46.360] The job to be done is different for different people in that organization.
[00:44:46.360 --> 00:44:49.960] For Janet, she wants to look good to the boss and to the client.
[00:44:49.960 --> 00:44:51.080] So, what does that mean?
[00:44:51.080 --> 00:44:53.320] It means I've got to make a decision.
[00:44:53.720 --> 00:44:56.040] If it's more affordable, that's always good.
[00:44:56.040 --> 00:44:57.880] They're going to be saving money.
[00:44:57.880 --> 00:45:03.560] If it's good software that doesn't make me look bad, that's a good thing, right?
[00:45:03.560 --> 00:45:05.400] Exactly, yeah, exactly.
[00:45:05.400 --> 00:45:18.680] And it's the customer, and they're scared about, they just don't want to fuck up the decision because it's how their colleagues are going to think about their role.
[00:45:18.680 --> 00:45:25.480] I mean, at the end, it's just choosing like a software costing like a few bucks per month.
[00:45:25.480 --> 00:45:31.720] But it's like their job is all about this, and they could be fired or whatever.
[00:45:32.440 --> 00:45:34.040] They want to mess up about this.
[00:45:34.360 --> 00:45:38.600] And even in small companies with a co-founder, you see this dynamic.
[00:45:38.600 --> 00:45:49.520] If it's my job to choose a tool or make a decision and I fuck up and it looks bad to John, my co-founder, that does affect me.
[00:45:49.520 --> 00:45:51.920] That's a part of my calculus, right?
[00:45:51.920 --> 00:45:54.640] It's like, I want to make good decisions.
[00:45:55.520 --> 00:45:59.920] Even in a small company, in a co-founder relationship, you don't want to fuck up.
[00:45:59.920 --> 00:46:03.760] Like, there's that old saying, like, nobody got fired for choosing IBM, right?
[00:46:03.760 --> 00:46:10.880] Like, there's always this idea of what's the safest choice I can make that will make me.
[00:46:11.520 --> 00:46:20.960] We had an easy trick, and I learned this trick by working from a French company, a small company, having like normal clients.
[00:46:20.960 --> 00:46:36.320] And in a decision-making process, you have the people choosing the software, and the people gonna choose if going to choose this software or another one, and then maybe the billing department are gonna pay for the software.
[00:46:36.320 --> 00:46:51.840] And what they did is just a PDF, and they gave you a PDF, and then you could forward this PDF to your boss, to your colleagues, so you could convince them that this is the right decision.
[00:46:51.840 --> 00:47:00.720] And we made the same with CRISP, just a PDF, resuming everything in 20 slides.
[00:47:00.720 --> 00:47:01.840] That's so smart.
[00:47:01.840 --> 00:47:03.360] Very easy.
[00:47:03.680 --> 00:47:05.680] Super easy to process.
[00:47:05.680 --> 00:47:10.480] Features and three key points about what to think.
[00:47:10.800 --> 00:47:14.240] And super, like, it's super easy.
[00:47:14.240 --> 00:47:22.560] And at the end, it's just what who we are, the CRISP customer survives, CRISP SLA.
[00:47:22.720 --> 00:47:25.040] I mean, CRISP is never down.
[00:47:25.680 --> 00:47:27.840] We have a good customer support.
[00:47:27.840 --> 00:47:29.440] And what's the cost?
[00:47:29.440 --> 00:47:32.200] And if you have any question, email us.
[00:47:32.520 --> 00:47:43.400] Just very easy, and it works so great because they can like, okay, boss, this is the document, this is what we need.
[00:47:43.400 --> 00:47:45.320] And the boss is not having the time.
[00:47:45.320 --> 00:47:50.040] He needs to make a decision like quickly.
[00:47:50.040 --> 00:47:54.920] And using this document, he can do the right decision.
[00:47:55.720 --> 00:48:01.560] He's not having to go to the website, maybe having an account, etc.
[00:48:01.880 --> 00:48:03.640] He is having a PDF.
[00:48:03.640 --> 00:48:05.560] It's like buying a house.
[00:48:05.560 --> 00:48:11.400] You know, when you buy a house, want to buy a house, you have a PDF with photos, etc.
[00:48:13.800 --> 00:48:17.000] The cost, the agency, et cetera.
[00:48:17.400 --> 00:48:18.120] Contact points.
[00:48:18.920 --> 00:48:19.800] This is the same.
[00:48:19.800 --> 00:48:22.040] Yeah, that's such a key insight.
[00:48:22.040 --> 00:48:27.080] Again, because it gets in the psychology of someone buying a product.
[00:48:27.080 --> 00:48:29.400] How do people buy products?
[00:48:29.400 --> 00:48:40.200] And unless you're just selling to a solopreneur, and there's different dynamics with solopreneurs, but as soon as you have two people in a company, I have to convince John to buy this product.
[00:48:40.200 --> 00:48:41.320] So what am I going to do?
[00:48:41.640 --> 00:48:43.320] I'm going to be selling him on it.
[00:48:43.320 --> 00:48:44.920] I'm now the salesperson.
[00:48:44.920 --> 00:48:52.840] So equip me as the person who wants to buy your software to sell it to the other people in the organization.
[00:48:52.840 --> 00:48:57.480] And that's such a key, like a great way of doing it: the PDF.
[00:48:58.200 --> 00:49:05.000] This is also the same insight a lot of us in SaaS have had about reports.
[00:49:05.640 --> 00:49:07.800] Why do you want reports?
[00:49:07.800 --> 00:49:13.560] Give me reports so that I can look good to my boss in a meeting.
[00:49:13.560 --> 00:49:16.960] Hey, Janet, how are we doing in terms of customer support?
[00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:20.800] Oh, well, we've had 81 more conversations this week.
[00:49:20.800 --> 00:49:25.360] Our response time is down and we've had more visitors.
[00:49:25.360 --> 00:49:26.160] Perfect.
[00:49:26.160 --> 00:49:27.040] Thanks, Janet.
[00:49:27.040 --> 00:49:32.720] Like, you're equipping people to have the answers so that they look good in a meeting.
[00:49:32.720 --> 00:49:33.760] So key.
[00:49:33.760 --> 00:49:34.320] Yeah.
[00:49:34.320 --> 00:49:45.760] And once you understand why not everyone is hiring, like for podcast hosting, not everybody is hiring podcast hosting for the same reason.
[00:49:45.760 --> 00:49:48.320] The marketing team has their goals.
[00:49:48.320 --> 00:49:50.240] The boss has their goals.
[00:49:50.880 --> 00:49:52.960] Everybody has their goals.
[00:49:53.280 --> 00:49:58.480] The individual employee who's in charge of purchasing has their goals, right?
[00:49:58.480 --> 00:50:00.160] And nobody wants to fuck up.
[00:50:00.160 --> 00:50:01.680] Everybody wants to look good.
[00:50:01.680 --> 00:50:02.160] Yeah.
[00:50:02.160 --> 00:50:05.920] Help them make a decision that makes them look good.
[00:50:05.920 --> 00:50:07.360] Make it a no-brainer.
[00:50:07.360 --> 00:50:08.160] And this is why.
[00:50:09.360 --> 00:51:00.120] This is why you need, like, on another thing you guys do great on your page is you just you kind of systematically show people like here's the product it's built for customer support marketing and sales all together and then you have 300,000 brands are already using crisp so the boss is gonna want to know why should I trust these people well 300,000 brands including Boston University Call Hippo John Deere are all using this product yeah and and in fact if you switch to a different language so if you switch to French, if you switch to Portuguese, I'm looking now German oh yeah it's gonna change it gonna change so you you you know this kind of brands.
[00:51:00.120 --> 00:51:14.280] Yeah, so you're doing it, you're geolocating, you're making it even more salient to potential customers to say, hey, well, if you're in France, we'll show you BNB hotels.
[00:51:14.280 --> 00:51:17.080] You know, that's a brand that you might know and recognize.
[00:51:17.080 --> 00:51:18.600] That's so smart.
[00:51:18.600 --> 00:51:23.880] Like, are most of your customers from Europe or from North America?
[00:51:23.880 --> 00:51:28.280] And what's it like being a technology company outside of North America?
[00:51:28.280 --> 00:51:31.240] Do you feel like that has made anything harder?
[00:51:31.240 --> 00:51:36.360] Or is there a huge opportunity in the EU that you've been able to take advantage of?
[00:51:36.360 --> 00:51:41.240] So US, it's only 30% of our revenues.
[00:51:41.560 --> 00:51:49.800] So it means that we take our revenues all around the world and outside the US.
[00:51:51.240 --> 00:52:01.640] So I don't think there is any issue for US customers buying a product not made from the US.
[00:52:01.960 --> 00:52:11.320] In fact, it's why if you look at the footer on the home page, it says made in France, something like that.
[00:52:11.320 --> 00:52:15.160] Initially, I didn't want to add this tagline.
[00:52:15.160 --> 00:52:19.960] I mean, we don't want to sell us as a French company.
[00:52:20.280 --> 00:52:32.360] But if you look at the trends, show that American customers have a good feeling about French made product.
[00:52:32.360 --> 00:52:33.720] That's right, yes.
[00:52:33.720 --> 00:52:36.200] So it's why we show that.
[00:52:36.200 --> 00:52:44.200] I mean, I don't think it would be the same if it would have been India or I don't know.
[00:52:44.200 --> 00:52:53.600] But when if you look at the trends, and it's even better than showing USA made in the USA.
[00:52:53.600 --> 00:53:07.760] I mean, there's definitely like certain brands that you see that you go made in France has this feeling of quality, of maybe craftsmanship, of higher quality luxury.
[00:53:07.760 --> 00:53:08.880] Yeah, yeah.
[00:53:08.960 --> 00:53:10.400] It's the same for Germany.
[00:53:10.400 --> 00:53:17.040] If you think about German cars, when you close the door, it makes a special sound.
[00:53:17.360 --> 00:53:20.320] It's perfect.
[00:53:20.320 --> 00:53:28.800] So a company, I mean, a country can have a perception about how they do product.
[00:53:28.800 --> 00:53:34.000] It's why there is this tagline made in France in the future.
[00:53:34.000 --> 00:53:40.080] But at the end, you know, there are great software developers all around the world.
[00:53:40.080 --> 00:53:43.600] So it's not making any difference.
[00:53:45.120 --> 00:53:47.280] So yeah, it's not a problem for.
[00:53:47.920 --> 00:53:49.920] Is your whole team located in Nantes?
[00:53:49.920 --> 00:53:50.880] No, no, no.
[00:53:50.880 --> 00:53:53.280] So CRISP used to be a remote company.
[00:53:53.280 --> 00:53:59.600] I mean, we didn't wait for COVID-19 pandemic to know what remote is.
[00:54:00.640 --> 00:54:05.120] We started CRISP by being 100% remote.
[00:54:05.840 --> 00:54:09.520] But we wanted to have our families.
[00:54:09.520 --> 00:54:20.320] So being nomad was not easy because when you travel all around the world, you are not doing any long-term relationships.
[00:54:20.960 --> 00:54:28.480] So, by going to the west of France, near our families, friends, etc., it was easier.
[00:54:28.480 --> 00:54:39.400] So, we made a team in Nantes, but still, half, so 50% of the team is all around the world.
[00:54:39.400 --> 00:54:42.840] I mean, we have people working at CRISP in different countries.
[00:54:42.840 --> 00:54:53.000] So, all the Slack, so we use Slack every day, and all the people on Slack just speak English all together.
[00:54:53.000 --> 00:54:53.560] Okay.
[00:54:54.760 --> 00:54:57.880] But half of the team is French.
[00:54:57.880 --> 00:54:58.840] Oh, interesting.
[00:54:58.840 --> 00:55:03.800] So, but during the day, the language that you use for like work is English.
[00:55:03.800 --> 00:55:04.440] Yeah.
[00:55:05.080 --> 00:55:07.160] Not at the offices, obviously.
[00:55:07.480 --> 00:55:18.920] And the other thing I think you've done well that I think we're trying to think about too is it's so easy because so much of the SaaS market traditionally has been North America.
[00:55:19.240 --> 00:55:21.560] It's easy for us to have blinders on.
[00:55:21.560 --> 00:55:32.120] And so, like, if I would say it goes US first, then maybe UK, Germany, Canada, France, and Australia.
[00:55:32.120 --> 00:55:34.680] Those are our top markets.
[00:55:35.720 --> 00:55:42.680] But we know that, you know, in Spanish-speaking countries, podcasting is getting big.
[00:55:42.680 --> 00:55:59.560] And so, one thing that's been interesting about CRISP is you have that auto-translate feature, and we have people all the time that it's almost like you built the product just assuming that you're going to have a global audience so you can see right away this person likely speaks Spanish.
[00:55:59.560 --> 00:56:03.320] Do you want to live translate this right all at once?
[00:56:03.320 --> 00:56:09.640] Do you think that's helped you as a company get into markets that you wouldn't normally have reached into?
[00:56:09.640 --> 00:56:15.000] Like, is there, are you seeing uplift in Spanish-speaking countries or in Asia?
[00:56:15.520 --> 00:56:25.440] As we come from Europe, so people in the US and especially all the in America think that Europe is Europe.
[00:56:25.440 --> 00:56:28.640] I mean, like the USA, but it's not working like that.
[00:56:28.640 --> 00:56:37.280] I mean, Europe is 30 different countries, even more, and we all speak different languages.
[00:56:37.280 --> 00:56:42.960] We all have different cultures, different feelings, etc.
[00:56:43.280 --> 00:56:55.760] And as France comes, we are French people, we come from Europe, so we knew that, okay, if we want to be global, I mean, France is going to be a market for us because we are French.
[00:56:55.760 --> 00:56:58.880] So we need to translate everything in French.
[00:56:58.880 --> 00:57:04.800] We're going to be global first, so English first, but then we're going to localize everything.
[00:57:04.800 --> 00:57:13.520] So we're going to localize everything in French, everything in Spanish, Portuguese, German, etc.
[00:57:14.160 --> 00:57:23.680] And this strategy worked great because the CRISP live chat widget is translated in more than 60 different languages.
[00:57:23.680 --> 00:57:27.920] And actually, our users translated everything.
[00:57:27.920 --> 00:57:30.480] We didn't do anything for that.
[00:57:30.800 --> 00:57:32.000] Just, yeah.
[00:57:32.000 --> 00:57:40.800] So all the chat widgets are translated by the users because they wanted to use CRISP in their own language.
[00:57:40.800 --> 00:57:51.680] So yeah, here is the translation file translated and we're going to make CRISP compatible with Finnish, with Danish, with whatever.
[00:57:51.680 --> 00:57:53.360] And it's what we did.
[00:57:53.360 --> 00:58:01.080] And by doing that, in fact, we had a huge traction in countries we never thought we would have a chance.
[00:58:01.080 --> 00:58:02.680] For instance, Finland.
[00:58:02.680 --> 00:58:03.160] Okay.
[00:57:59.040 --> 00:58:05.880] CRISP was translated in Finnish.
[00:58:06.520 --> 00:58:14.600] And thanks to that, we had a YouTuber doing a blog article in Finland.
[00:58:14.600 --> 00:58:17.560] And this guy was super popular.
[00:58:17.560 --> 00:58:24.920] And in a few months, we went from zero to market leader in Finland.
[00:58:24.920 --> 00:58:25.960] Wow.
[00:58:26.280 --> 00:58:27.800] That's incredible.
[00:58:28.280 --> 00:58:41.800] It does make me feel like, I mean, this is something we talk about at Transistor, but going, we, in some ways, inspired by Chris, we decided to localize our podcast websites feature.
[00:58:41.800 --> 00:58:44.280] And we have a developer, Jason, who really pushed this.
[00:58:44.280 --> 00:58:46.760] He said, like, we really got to do this.
[00:58:46.760 --> 00:58:50.840] And so we localized it into, I think, five or six languages to start.
[00:58:51.160 --> 00:59:02.440] And it's interesting because you do just, as soon as people see, for example, that you can have your website in your language for your country, it does just bring in a bunch more attention.
[00:59:02.440 --> 00:59:08.200] And so demand, customer demand that you might not have been aware of kind of shows up.
[00:59:08.200 --> 00:59:13.160] It's complicated to think for native English people.
[00:59:13.160 --> 00:59:21.800] I mean, people who have always been used to speak English in their life because they think like that.
[00:59:21.800 --> 00:59:26.040] But you know, right now, I'm doing this podcast in English.
[00:59:26.040 --> 00:59:32.840] It needs, even if I'm good, I think I'm good at speaking English, but it's not my main language.
[00:59:32.840 --> 00:59:35.160] I had to learn this language at school.
[00:59:35.160 --> 00:59:41.960] And right now, my brain, CPU, needs to translate in live everything.
[00:59:41.960 --> 00:59:53.920] And it's, I mean, even the best not English native speakers need to think when they read something, et cetera.
[00:59:54.640 --> 01:00:03.760] So if everything is translated in your mother tongue, it has an immediate impact on your thought.
[01:00:04.560 --> 01:00:16.480] It's something that you are not thinking about, and even like English people not thinking about that, but it's a big impact to convince people.
[01:00:16.960 --> 01:00:20.720] Because you feel like you're home when you see your language.
[01:00:27.360 --> 01:00:29.680] Yeah, you have some kind of a Quebec accent.
[01:00:30.640 --> 01:00:31.280] No.
[01:00:31.280 --> 01:00:33.920] Yeah, but for instance, people in Quebec.
[01:00:33.920 --> 01:00:38.800] Because CRISP is translated in French, they love it.
[01:00:38.800 --> 01:00:39.600] Yeah.
[01:00:39.920 --> 01:00:41.040] It makes a big impact.
[01:00:41.440 --> 01:00:50.800] Yeah, we noticed that right away because we would get a lot of customer requests from Ottawa and from Quebec.
[01:00:50.800 --> 01:00:54.800] And in Ottawa, that's our capital, everything has to be bilingual.
[01:00:55.120 --> 01:01:01.600] And in Quebec, everything has to be bilingual, definitely, but leads with French.
[01:01:01.600 --> 01:01:12.400] And yeah, as soon as we have those French language translations, one of the first customers to use it was the Canadian government because they need to have podcasts in both languages.
[01:01:12.720 --> 01:01:15.280] So yeah, I think it's a great insight.
[01:01:15.280 --> 01:01:18.960] And it's a great way as well to differentiate with competitors.
[01:01:19.520 --> 01:01:21.680] At CRISP, we care about that.
[01:01:21.680 --> 01:01:22.800] We have features.
[01:01:22.800 --> 01:01:26.320] And for instance, CRISP is translated in Arabic.
[01:01:26.320 --> 01:01:31.800] No one cares about Hebrew, Arabic, et cetera, because it's RTL.
[01:01:31.800 --> 01:01:33.880] Everything is in the opposite way.
[01:01:33.880 --> 01:01:34.040] Yes.
[01:01:34.200 --> 01:01:34.920] Reversed.
[01:01:29.840 --> 01:01:35.080] Yes.
[01:01:35.720 --> 01:01:38.040] And we do care about that.
[01:01:38.360 --> 01:01:46.840] And when they see CRISP, wow, they're the only kind of company taking care of us.
[01:01:46.840 --> 01:01:48.680] So they love us just because of that.
[01:01:48.920 --> 01:01:51.000] And some of those markets could be bigger.
[01:01:51.000 --> 01:01:52.680] Has there been a surprise for you?
[01:01:52.680 --> 01:01:56.040] Like, are some of those markets again?
[01:01:56.040 --> 01:02:01.000] Like, when I talk to SaaS companies in North America, it's always the same five or six.
[01:02:01.160 --> 01:02:07.000] United States, Canada, Germany, France, Australia, UK, those are the ones.
[01:02:07.000 --> 01:02:13.720] So is there a country where you've seen a lot of growth customers-wise, that surprised you?
[01:02:13.720 --> 01:02:22.280] So there is definitely something huge happening right now in countries you never think about.
[01:02:22.280 --> 01:02:29.720] So for instance, in South America, there is something huge happening right now in Brazil.
[01:02:29.720 --> 01:02:34.520] In Asia as well, there is a big startup ecosystem happening.
[01:02:35.320 --> 01:02:47.480] If you look at Indonesia, Vietnam, something is going on here and you see real startups launching.
[01:02:47.480 --> 01:02:51.560] But are you seeing an influx of customers from those locations?
[01:02:51.560 --> 01:02:52.520] Yeah, yeah.
[01:02:52.520 --> 01:02:57.640] And also, so definitely something is going to happen.
[01:02:58.440 --> 01:03:04.760] Nowadays, all the people can use smartphones, computers.
[01:03:05.320 --> 01:03:09.400] The knowledge tends to be cheap and affordable.
[01:03:09.400 --> 01:03:11.880] You can learn anything on the internet.
[01:03:11.880 --> 01:03:18.320] And you can, for instance, there are more and more startups coming in Africa as well.
[01:03:18.320 --> 01:03:25.200] For instance, there are some countries like Kenya with big startups ecosystems.
[01:03:25.520 --> 01:03:36.320] So the world where the USA were the first software consumers and producers has ended.
[01:03:36.320 --> 01:03:48.720] And we're now in a new world where internet is global, software usage and making is global, and it's totally changing right now.
[01:03:49.120 --> 01:03:50.960] Big opportunity.
[01:03:50.960 --> 01:03:53.040] Well, thanks so much, Baptiste, for this.
[01:03:53.040 --> 01:03:54.240] This was really great.
[01:03:54.240 --> 01:03:59.600] I love so many of your customer insights are so interesting.
[01:03:59.840 --> 01:04:06.160] I think we should do this again because I know I'm going to have more questions as soon as we hang up.
[01:04:06.160 --> 01:04:09.600] But is there anything you want to let our listeners know?
[01:04:09.600 --> 01:04:10.560] Are you hiring?
[01:04:10.560 --> 01:04:16.400] Do you want to anything in particular you want to let folks know before we leave?
[01:04:16.400 --> 01:04:21.120] Yeah, so we hire any kind of T-shaped people.
[01:04:21.120 --> 01:04:25.840] So if you're looking for a company offering...
[01:04:25.840 --> 01:04:28.960] So at CRISP, we don't hire people for roles.
[01:04:28.960 --> 01:04:36.800] We hire people because we think those people are great people and we try to build roles around people.
[01:04:36.800 --> 01:04:42.160] So if you're a developer liking a bit of marketing, CRISP is for you.
[01:04:42.160 --> 01:04:50.160] If you're a developer liking design plus design plus support plus whatever, CRISP is made for you.
[01:04:50.160 --> 01:04:54.800] If you want to talk to people, but also code, CRISP is made for you.
[01:04:54.800 --> 01:05:13.240] For instance, we have Dennis in Portugal who studied at CRISP doing customer support after doing audio engineering school and now is shifting to customer to development because he's so good at it.
[01:05:13.240 --> 01:05:13.720] Yeah.
[01:05:13.720 --> 01:05:22.520] So CRISPR is T-shaped people and if you are this kind of person, you can reach us anytime on CRISP.chat.
[01:05:22.520 --> 01:05:23.400] Awesome.
[01:05:23.400 --> 01:05:24.840] Well, thanks again for doing this.
[01:05:24.840 --> 01:05:28.200] Thanks for staying up late to do the phone call.
[01:05:28.200 --> 01:05:34.680] Thank you for engaging in English for an hour and 14 minutes and using all those CPU cycles.
[01:05:34.680 --> 01:05:38.200] I hope I didn't make you my CPU is over each.
[01:05:38.840 --> 01:05:49.240] If I had to do this whole thing in French, it would be, it would be, you have to think so hard to think, how do I say this in French?
[01:05:49.480 --> 01:05:55.320] It's just, I appreciate you doing the podcast.
[01:05:55.320 --> 01:05:56.520] And yeah, we'll do it again.
[01:05:56.520 --> 01:05:57.640] Thank you very much.
[01:05:57.640 --> 01:05:58.600] Have a good day.
[01:05:58.600 --> 01:06:01.880] Let's give a shout out to our supporters on Patreon.
[01:06:01.880 --> 01:06:25.880] We've got Jason Charnes, Mitchell Davis, Marcel Folly, Alex Payne, Bill Kondo, Anton Zorin, Harris Kenney, Oleg Kulig, Ethan Gunnerson, Ward Sandler, Russell Brown, Noah Prayle, Colin Gray, Austin Lovelace, Michael Sitver, Paul Jarvis, and Jack Ellis, Dan Buddha, Darby Frey, Adam Duvander, Adam Duvander, Dave Junta.
[01:06:25.880 --> 01:06:29.480] You know, John Buddha found a bottle of junta wine the other day.
[01:06:29.480 --> 01:06:31.000] Junta wine.
[01:06:31.000 --> 01:06:32.200] We're going to have a team recheck.
[01:06:32.520 --> 01:06:34.920] We're going to have some junta wine while we're there.
[01:06:34.920 --> 01:06:38.760] And Kyle Fox from getrewardful.com.
[01:06:38.760 --> 01:06:41.800] If you like this episode, share it with a friend.
[01:06:41.800 --> 01:06:43.720] Reach out to Baptiste on Twitter.
[01:06:43.720 --> 01:06:45.360] Let him know that you liked it.
[01:06:45.360 --> 01:06:46.800] And I will talk to you next time.
[01:06:44.760 --> 01:06:47.600] Bye.
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