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[00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:02.800] Hi, I'm Dorena, co-founder of OpenPhone.
[00:00:02.800 --> 00:00:07.440] My dad is a business owner, and growing up, I'll never forget his old ringtone.
[00:00:07.440 --> 00:00:12.960] He made it as loud as it could go because he could not afford to miss a single customer call.
[00:00:12.960 --> 00:00:14.320] That stuck with me.
[00:00:14.320 --> 00:00:22.960] When we started OpenPhone, our mission was to help businesses not just stay in touch, but make every customer feel valued, no matter when they might call.
[00:00:22.960 --> 00:00:29.920] OpenPhone gives your team business phone numbers to call and text customers, all through an app on your phone or computer.
[00:00:29.920 --> 00:00:37.280] Your calls, messages, and contacts live in one workspace, so your team can stay fully aligned and reply faster.
[00:00:37.280 --> 00:00:42.960] And with our AI agent answering 24/7, you'll really never miss a customer.
[00:00:42.960 --> 00:00:46.080] Over 60,000 businesses use Open Phone.
[00:00:46.080 --> 00:00:55.760] Try it now and get 20% off your first six months at openphone.com/slash tech, and we can port your existing numbers over for free.
[00:00:55.760 --> 00:00:59.760] Open phone, no missed calls, no missed customers.
[00:00:59.760 --> 00:01:04.720] Does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the void?
[00:01:05.920 --> 00:01:11.120] But with LinkedIn ads, you can know you're reaching the right decision makers, a network of 130 million of them, in fact.
[00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:16.960] You can even target buyers by job title, industry, company, seniority, skills, and did I say job title?
[00:01:16.960 --> 00:01:20.800] See how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads.
[00:01:20.800 --> 00:01:25.760] Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a free $250 credit for the next one.
[00:01:25.760 --> 00:01:28.160] Get started at linkedin.com/slash campaign.
[00:01:28.160 --> 00:01:30.080] Terms and conditions apply.
[00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:36.720] And as an entrepreneur or anyone with a side hustle or just a hustle, right?
[00:01:36.720 --> 00:01:41.200] It can easily get so scary when you're like, I can't do that.
[00:01:41.200 --> 00:01:46.160] Whatever it is, instead of having the mentality, how can I do that?
[00:01:47.120 --> 00:01:55.840] You're listening to Side Hustle Pro, the podcast that teaches you to build and grow your side hustle from passion project to profitable business.
[00:01:55.840 --> 00:01:58.800] And I'm your host, Nikayla Matthews Okome.
[00:01:58.800 --> 00:02:00.000] So let's get started.
[00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:02.680] Hey, hey, guys, welcome.
[00:02:02.680 --> 00:02:03.640] Welcome back to the show.
[00:02:03.640 --> 00:02:06.520] Today, in the guest chair, I have Cody Elaine Oliver.
[00:02:06.520 --> 00:02:16.920] Cody is the CEO and co-founder of Black Love Inc., which is the premier 100% Black-owned partner for celebrating 360 degrees of Black Love.
[00:02:16.920 --> 00:02:33.320] The media company, founded by Cody and her husband, Tommy Oliver, is a hub for black couples and singles to have transparent conversations around relationships, parenthood, dating, and more through their app, podcast network, documentaries, and live events.
[00:02:33.320 --> 00:02:42.760] Cody is an NAACP Image Award-nominated director and co-creator, and she is building her legacy with a mission of authenticity and love.
[00:02:42.760 --> 00:02:48.840] And in today's episode, she shares how she started forging her unique path in media.
[00:02:48.840 --> 00:03:00.680] She also shares how she and her husband Tommy self-funded Black Love Inc., plus the strategic moves she made to pitch Black Love to a network while maintaining ownership.
[00:03:00.680 --> 00:03:10.440] And she also talks about the systems that she has in place to manage a thriving career while being a mom of three, including twins, and so much more.
[00:03:13.000 --> 00:03:14.520] Hey, hey, guys, welcome back.
[00:03:14.520 --> 00:03:17.240] We have an awesome, awesome guest in the guest chair today.
[00:03:17.240 --> 00:03:19.800] Cody, welcome back to the Side Hustle Procedure.
[00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:20.840] Thank you for being here.
[00:03:20.840 --> 00:03:22.600] Thank you for having me.
[00:03:22.600 --> 00:03:23.800] It's been a while.
[00:03:23.800 --> 00:03:29.800] Yeah, now that you've done a few of your own podcasts, like, how does it feel now being back in the guest chair?
[00:03:29.800 --> 00:03:31.960] Oh my gosh, that's so funny.
[00:03:31.960 --> 00:03:34.120] This is probably the first podcast I ever did.
[00:03:34.120 --> 00:03:35.320] Oh, wow.
[00:03:35.320 --> 00:03:35.960] Yeah.
[00:03:35.960 --> 00:03:37.880] Like, you know, you're a trailblazer.
[00:03:37.880 --> 00:03:38.200] Okay.
[00:03:38.200 --> 00:03:39.160] You know that.
[00:03:39.160 --> 00:03:40.520] Oh, I'm trying.
[00:03:40.520 --> 00:03:42.520] I'm trying out here.
[00:03:43.160 --> 00:03:46.080] So, you have been up to so much.
[00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:52.480] I mean, I'm just looking at all that you've done with Black Love and what you're continuing to do.
[00:03:52.480 --> 00:03:57.760] So, I, of course, need to give the folks who didn't listen to your first episode, which was so long ago.
[00:03:57.760 --> 00:04:00.240] Matter of fact, I didn't even look what year that was.
[00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:02.960] It was probably 2017, 2018.
[00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:05.200] So, give us a peek into your life.
[00:04:05.200 --> 00:04:09.200] Like, when did you start forging your own path?
[00:04:09.520 --> 00:04:11.280] Yeah, old girl, my own path.
[00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:14.080] I probably started forging my own path after college.
[00:04:14.080 --> 00:04:31.280] But I was thinking of you when I saw all the Howard homecoming stuff on my feed, and I was just trying to think: I wonder how, how do you go from a traditional college background at Howard to where you are today in the media industry and starting your own media company?
[00:04:31.280 --> 00:04:38.160] But not just that, my parents are doctor and lawyer, so it was definitely a lot of like going against the grain, right?
[00:04:38.480 --> 00:04:41.440] Um, and so, how did I get here?
[00:04:41.440 --> 00:04:46.000] I mean, I've always been creative, I've always been, I would say, an artist.
[00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:48.960] Like, I was acting when I was little and singing.
[00:04:48.960 --> 00:04:54.720] And I basically, at some point, I was so into acting, I was on a TV show in sixth grade.
[00:04:54.720 --> 00:05:00.960] Like, I ultimately had to choose between that and athletics because I also played sports year-round.
[00:05:00.960 --> 00:05:07.200] And, you know, when you're in high school, you got school, you got these two things were taking over my life, and I really had to pick one.
[00:05:07.200 --> 00:05:15.440] And so, I picked athletics, and I have zero regrets, but that creative part of me was always there.
[00:05:15.760 --> 00:05:29.680] And so, fast-forwarding, you know, just summarizing, I even chose my major in college, which was business at first, because I was like, Well, I don't want to be like in finance, but everybody needs business majors.
[00:05:29.800 --> 00:05:36.520] So, I'll go work somewhere where they're doing creative things and like just be in the room where it happens, right?
[00:05:36.840 --> 00:05:45.240] And I changed my major to broadcast journalism, but um, then I graduated, I worked in broadcast journalism and I hated the news.
[00:05:45.240 --> 00:05:53.320] And then I was like, No, I really need to be creative, I need to be making up stories, not telling the real ones because the real ones may be a little too much.
[00:05:53.320 --> 00:06:02.760] And um, and so I went to film school at that point, and my parents were so supportive, but they had no idea what I was doing.
[00:06:03.240 --> 00:06:10.600] Listen, all of this is so relatable, all of this is like you know, change a few parts, but so many of us have this experience.
[00:06:10.600 --> 00:06:21.640] It's interesting that, you know, especially given the stories that you tell now and help to bring to the big screen, that you gave up the acting.
[00:06:21.640 --> 00:06:24.360] Did you ever see yourself in front of the camera again?
[00:06:24.360 --> 00:06:27.080] Yeah, I thought about it when I was in college.
[00:06:27.080 --> 00:06:32.360] I took an acting class when I went to film school.
[00:06:32.360 --> 00:06:40.360] I don't remember if I was ever on camera, but there was lots of opportunities to sort of just collaborate with folks and just like be, you know, on all sides.
[00:06:40.360 --> 00:06:43.160] And so, I certainly was like, Man, I'm moving to LA.
[00:06:43.160 --> 00:06:45.640] Like, is this something I want to think about again?
[00:06:45.640 --> 00:06:48.120] But no, I've never prioritized it since.
[00:06:48.120 --> 00:06:52.360] I've never made it a thing, and you got to put effort into it.
[00:06:52.360 --> 00:06:55.000] You do anything, anything that you want to succeed at.
[00:06:55.000 --> 00:07:07.880] And for me, I always want these kind of episodes where I talk to creatives like yourself to inspire people who are on the fence who are like, Yeah, that is something that's calling me, but how am I going to make money?
[00:07:07.880 --> 00:07:09.640] What's that really look like?
[00:07:09.640 --> 00:07:13.480] So, I always want people to see how it's possible.
[00:07:13.480 --> 00:07:23.520] So, for you, going to film school, did you have those fears of, will I really make money or will I just graduate and like have a bunch of screenplays under my belt?
[00:07:23.520 --> 00:07:33.280] Listen, I'm sure I thought I'm going to be big, you know, like there's no way I could have done that without feeling that way.
[00:07:33.280 --> 00:07:38.960] Now, look, once I got in the business, it was like, oh my God, there's no way to make money here.
[00:07:39.280 --> 00:07:48.880] But when I went to film school, it was, you know, I was super passionate about storytelling and what was possible.
[00:07:49.200 --> 00:07:56.720] And I knew that, you know, the entertainment business could yield a lot of money, the same as the journalism business, right?
[00:07:56.720 --> 00:08:04.800] Then the broadcast journalism business, but there's a certain level that you have to get to to make that money and everything else pays pennies.
[00:08:05.120 --> 00:08:06.240] And I knew that.
[00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:19.920] And so there was no doubt that going to film school with my, you know, with who I am and what I'm capable of and how I like to, how my ideas are so unique.
[00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:23.680] There was no doubt that I would be successful.
[00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:25.920] But it was very hard.
[00:08:25.920 --> 00:08:27.200] It was certainly not success.
[00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:30.560] I was certainly not successful for a very long time.
[00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:39.280] And so how did you structure your career in media, both in film school and once you graduated?
[00:08:39.680 --> 00:08:42.560] So I had no idea what to expect going into film school.
[00:08:42.560 --> 00:08:44.000] Like, what's the path after that?
[00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:44.240] Right.
[00:08:44.320 --> 00:08:46.640] I think I just thought you go to film school and you get a job.
[00:08:46.640 --> 00:08:54.400] And whether that job is like in a studio or something, or whether that job is on a set, I will figure it out.
[00:08:54.400 --> 00:08:56.240] And that is part of it.
[00:08:56.440 --> 00:08:57.920] That is, that is a path.
[00:08:57.920 --> 00:09:04.840] And then, and then there's nuances to like, well, what kind of job yields what I ultimately wanted to be doing, which was producing.
[00:09:05.160 --> 00:09:07.560] So, all of this, of course, I learned in film school.
[00:09:07.560 --> 00:09:10.280] I had no idea going in what to expect.
[00:09:10.280 --> 00:09:19.640] And so, my expected path was to work for a producer and go rise in the ranks alongside them.
[00:09:19.640 --> 00:09:23.880] So, maybe be their assistant and then be a coordinator and then be an executive.
[00:09:23.880 --> 00:09:26.040] And now I'm producing.
[00:09:26.680 --> 00:09:33.960] I think that's what I that is what I expected and wanted, what I thought the trajectory was going to be, and what I pursued.
[00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:35.000] I mean, I was very intentional.
[00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:48.920] I did every internship, every internship, sometimes two a semester, and try to be really thoughtful about which ones as well would really give me the most relationships and understanding of the business.
[00:09:48.920 --> 00:09:51.080] And I'm, and I'm proud of that, right?
[00:09:51.080 --> 00:10:13.560] I feel like I feel like those experiences are all paying off so much later, but um, but there was a time at a certain point where it was just like nothing felt like it was paying off, and um, and so, and so I questioned everything, yeah, and yeah, yeah, I left the business at some point.
[00:10:13.560 --> 00:10:14.360] What do you mean by that?
[00:10:14.360 --> 00:10:24.280] You went and got a quote-unquote real job, yes, I had been working at the Los Angeles Film Festival, which was also well, okay.
[00:10:24.280 --> 00:10:28.840] I got hired as the assistant to the festival director at the Los Angeles Film Festival.
[00:10:28.840 --> 00:10:32.200] She's also a full-time producer, so I was like, This is a win, right?
[00:10:32.520 --> 00:10:46.640] Little did I know when I got hired that Film Independent is a nonprofit organization that runs the Los Angeles Film Festival and the Independent Spirit Awards and year-round labs for filmmakers, and as a nonprofit, everybody does everything, right?
[00:10:46.640 --> 00:10:55.680] So basically, my film festival gig was like five months, Independent Spirit Awards was like five months, and then what's left too?
[00:10:55.680 --> 00:11:01.440] So then there's, you know, which, which really the labs were year-round, so they overlapped all of it, right?
[00:11:01.760 --> 00:11:21.440] So after several years there, and many things that didn't go the way I wanted them to go, or projects that I was working on on the side that were not coming to fruition, and then having personal stuff, my dad was sick, and I was like, man, I don't even have enough money to just like fly back and forth to have the freedom to go home as much as I want to.
[00:11:21.440 --> 00:11:24.720] So I was, I started applying for jobs.
[00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:27.120] You know, I'm very much a safety person, right?
[00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:35.440] So it was like, all right, I'm going to try to find a job in the film business, but at Discovery, which was in Silver Spring, Maryland.
[00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:38.640] I went to Howard, so that was down the street for me the whole time.
[00:11:38.640 --> 00:11:48.240] And I knew that there was more stability within their structure, or I'm going to go work at a PR firm.
[00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:49.840] I mean, there were nuances to it, right?
[00:11:49.840 --> 00:11:50.880] I was like, what are my skills?
[00:11:51.440 --> 00:11:52.560] I'm an event producer.
[00:11:52.720 --> 00:11:53.280] I'm creative.
[00:11:53.280 --> 00:11:53.920] I can do marketing.
[00:11:54.720 --> 00:12:02.160] So I ended up, this PR firm became an opportunity where I would work with Canon, the camera company.
[00:12:02.160 --> 00:12:05.280] They have a line of cinema cameras that they were, that was new at the time.
[00:12:05.280 --> 00:12:10.400] And I was connecting them to filmmakers, but through being their publicist.
[00:12:10.720 --> 00:12:16.880] And so I took that job because it paid regular adult money.
[00:12:16.920 --> 00:12:20.320] You know, and you can rely on.
[00:12:20.640 --> 00:12:32.680] Yes, yes, and um, and was a new experience, and and and didn't leave me uh waiting for someone to buy my script or you know, green light my project.
[00:12:32.920 --> 00:12:34.520] It was a job, right?
[00:12:34.840 --> 00:12:48.760] And so that's what I did, and that was me leaving the business only to meet Tommy, my husband, six months later, and uh, and then leave the PR firm dive head first in.
[00:12:48.760 --> 00:12:51.960] So, we're gonna get to that in a minute because I always love that story.
[00:12:51.960 --> 00:13:01.880] And what I love about your journey is the fact that there are times when we have to supplement our income.
[00:13:01.880 --> 00:13:07.400] All right, the side hustle is not always gonna pay us on the road to profitable business.
[00:13:07.400 --> 00:13:18.360] We have to supplement, and you gotta look for that because don't you find you're able to make more clear-headed decisions when you are not worried about money?
[00:13:18.680 --> 00:13:24.360] I would say a hundred percent, a hundred and thirty percent, and and everyone's not like that, right?
[00:13:24.360 --> 00:13:27.400] Like, yeah, Tommy's not like that.
[00:13:27.400 --> 00:13:33.080] Um, he's really good at making clear-headed decisions all the time, you know.
[00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:39.800] There's that whole and a personality, I think, right?
[00:13:39.800 --> 00:13:46.760] I think some people either are born with it or cultivate it, um, but I that ain't me.
[00:13:46.760 --> 00:13:58.840] I think it's Rich Dad, poor dad that talks about, well, I mean, they talk about a lot of things there, but just even just the mindset of how can I afford this and not I can't afford.
[00:13:58.840 --> 00:14:03.480] And as an entrepreneur or anyone with a side hustle or just a hustle, right?
[00:14:03.800 --> 00:14:08.720] Like, it can easily get so scary when you're like, I can't do that.
[00:14:08.720 --> 00:14:11.080] Whatever it is, I can't do that.
[00:14:11.080 --> 00:14:14.880] Instead of having the mentality, how can I do that?
[00:14:15.520 --> 00:14:16.320] Which I hear.
[00:14:14.440 --> 00:14:18.240] I'm even saying it to you, right?
[00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:24.320] I recognize intellectually, I understand it, but that is a muscle that people build.
[00:14:25.200 --> 00:14:26.640] That absolutely is a muscle.
[00:14:26.640 --> 00:14:33.840] So I'm glad you said that too, muscle, because a lot of times we talk about mindset on this show and the mindset shifts we need to make.
[00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:43.680] Even today, I was talking to, I had a call with my website designer, and I was saying, instead of saying I'm behind, I've been starting to say I'm catching up.
[00:14:44.640 --> 00:14:51.920] Yeah, that's important to shift your language to yourself because you feel so bad about yourself when you say certain things.
[00:14:52.240 --> 00:14:53.440] But it is a muscle.
[00:14:53.440 --> 00:14:56.640] You don't wake up and it's like, oh, I put on this new mindset now.
[00:14:56.640 --> 00:15:00.240] So muscle is probably a better word to use, like building the muscle.
[00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:01.520] So talk to us about that.
[00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:03.280] I have another good one.
[00:15:03.600 --> 00:15:10.800] I instead of saying sorry for my delay, like I'm horrible with emails in life right now.
[00:15:10.800 --> 00:15:13.040] Sorry for my delay is like constant.
[00:15:13.360 --> 00:15:16.880] I heard on a podcast, thanks for your patience.
[00:15:16.880 --> 00:15:17.280] Yes.
[00:15:17.280 --> 00:15:18.800] Oh, I love thanks for your patience.
[00:15:18.800 --> 00:15:19.760] Or you know what I love?
[00:15:19.760 --> 00:15:25.600] I love coming back after weeks with without further ado.
[00:15:26.080 --> 00:15:27.360] I love coming back with that.
[00:15:27.680 --> 00:15:28.880] They're looking at me sideways.
[00:15:28.880 --> 00:15:31.360] Like I'm like, hey, guys, without further ado.
[00:15:32.240 --> 00:15:32.560] Right.
[00:15:32.880 --> 00:15:33.520] Yep.
[00:15:33.520 --> 00:15:34.160] Yep.
[00:15:34.160 --> 00:15:35.120] I love that.
[00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:35.680] I love that.
[00:15:41.920 --> 00:15:50.640] Tell us briefly, how did you go from working in Silver Spring now to meeting Tommy and starting Black Love?
[00:15:51.280 --> 00:15:51.760] Yeah.
[00:15:51.760 --> 00:15:54.560] So we, we okay, so the PR firm was here in LA.
[00:15:54.560 --> 00:16:06.600] So, I was working in LA and I, my job was to go to film festivals and try to entice filmmakers to use Canon.
[00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:12.200] And I had the opportunity to gift or lend them cameras for free for their projects.
[00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:17.800] So, we went to Sundance, we went to South by Southwest, we went to other like trade shows.
[00:16:17.800 --> 00:16:21.880] So, the Toronto Film Festival was where I met Tommy.
[00:16:22.520 --> 00:16:29.160] We were activating there with our equipment and all that stuff in a daytime lounge where the filmmakers would come in.
[00:16:29.160 --> 00:16:31.160] And that's where we met.
[00:16:31.160 --> 00:16:33.880] And we started dating very quickly.
[00:16:33.880 --> 00:16:40.840] We got engaged after six months, but even before then, so we met September 9th, 2013.
[00:16:40.840 --> 00:16:45.240] By mid-October, we talked about Black Love, maybe even earlier we met.
[00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:52.440] I was like, I have this idea that I've been thinking about, and I don't know if it's a documentary because at that time, documentaries were not on my radar.
[00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:55.160] Like, I knew that they existed, but I thought they were boring.
[00:16:55.160 --> 00:16:57.240] And like, who does that?
[00:16:57.240 --> 00:16:58.840] And this isn't science.
[00:16:58.840 --> 00:17:03.560] Um, so so I talked to him about it, and he was really excited by it.
[00:17:03.720 --> 00:17:05.960] He was like, Let's do it, like, let's go.
[00:17:06.280 --> 00:17:08.200] And that's how it started.
[00:17:08.200 --> 00:17:16.680] We convinced Camera, uh, Canon to give him a camera loan because he was a filmmaker that we met at Toronto Film Fuzzy Bowl.
[00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:25.240] We convinced Canon to give him a camera loan by January, and we started shooting one year after we met.
[00:17:25.240 --> 00:17:26.520] I love that.
[00:17:26.520 --> 00:17:30.280] So, now you guys just finished your last season.
[00:17:30.600 --> 00:17:37.640] And I mean, if you guys want to hear more about the journey of growing that, you can go back to their Cody's very first episode.
[00:17:37.640 --> 00:17:38.600] I'll link to it.
[00:17:38.600 --> 00:17:44.200] But I'm interested to know now, looking back, you know, Black Love was such an impactful journey, right?
[00:17:44.200 --> 00:17:49.520] It's such a, it's just done so much, showcased so many different stories.
[00:17:49.840 --> 00:17:53.440] We've seen so many couples, some we know, some we don't.
[00:17:53.440 --> 00:17:56.560] What would you tell yourself now, knowing what you know?
[00:17:56.560 --> 00:17:59.440] What would you tell yourself at the beginning of that journey?
[00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:05.520] You know, the beginning was long before I met Tommy.
[00:18:05.840 --> 00:18:18.640] And I don't like the black love journey has been so perfect in a lot of ways because it was something that had been on my heart for a long time.
[00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:20.480] And I didn't know exactly what it was.
[00:18:20.480 --> 00:18:25.040] Like back in 2008, I did not know.
[00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:27.680] I thought it was a coffee table book.
[00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:29.440] And I thought about documentary.
[00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:32.160] Like I definitely thought about it and just ruled it out.
[00:18:33.360 --> 00:18:36.560] But I knew I wanted to create a place where black love stories live.
[00:18:36.560 --> 00:18:42.880] And so at every stage, that has been the central goal.
[00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:50.480] And so when it was a coffee table book and I went and did interviews with couples in Chicago, because my cousin was from there, she was like, I know a lot of couples.
[00:18:50.560 --> 00:18:55.600] We just went and took pictures and did audio interviews in 2008.
[00:18:55.840 --> 00:18:59.600] I don't regret anything about that journey, that time.
[00:18:59.600 --> 00:19:10.320] I, you know, all of it helped me develop the muscle of interviewing couples and what did I want to know and what did they say that then informed my next conversation.
[00:19:10.320 --> 00:19:13.360] And then meeting Tommy and deciding to do it as a documentary.
[00:19:13.360 --> 00:19:20.800] And then a few things changed in the landscape with the OJ doc and making a murderer, which like both of them are very dark.
[00:19:20.800 --> 00:19:24.800] But like the fact is, people were watching series, docu series.
[00:19:24.800 --> 00:19:26.880] And it was like, oh, wait, we can do that.
[00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:32.200] And so the choice to pivot and then it ended up at own, which was always my first choice for it.
[00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:36.840] It being at own and then the reception once it was on air.
[00:19:37.080 --> 00:19:42.920] Like the Black Love specific journey has been really positive, even in its negativity.
[00:19:42.920 --> 00:19:49.240] Even when it wasn't any of those things, it was a doc that we were shooting and we were trying to get grants and people were like, no, right?
[00:19:49.240 --> 00:19:51.320] And people were questioning it.
[00:19:51.320 --> 00:19:55.560] It's still nothing I would change about that journey.
[00:19:55.800 --> 00:19:57.720] Because it also led to us even owning it.
[00:19:57.720 --> 00:20:00.200] I don't know that we would have pursued the ownership.
[00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:06.280] I don't know that we would have kept shooting it ourselves the way that we did so that by the time we pitched it, it was a show.
[00:20:06.280 --> 00:20:08.120] It wasn't just a pitch on a piece of paper.
[00:20:08.120 --> 00:20:12.840] It was a show with a whole first episode cut already.
[00:20:12.840 --> 00:20:15.560] And so that gave us more leverage.
[00:20:15.560 --> 00:20:19.000] When you talk about the ownership piece, that's also really unique as well.
[00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:25.480] Like, how do you end up on own, but then you're self-funded and you own it?
[00:20:25.480 --> 00:20:30.920] Like, tell us a little bit more about what does this all mean, like in a granular sense?
[00:20:30.920 --> 00:20:39.960] Yeah, I mean, for the most part, people will have a great idea and maybe film enough to create a sizzle.
[00:20:39.960 --> 00:20:42.120] And even the sizzle doesn't have to be your show.
[00:20:42.120 --> 00:20:52.120] It doesn't even have to be the exact subject, subject meaning like person, but you want to create like a tone reel, something that somebody can get behind and say, okay, I want to pay for you to make whatever.
[00:20:52.120 --> 00:20:55.720] I want to pay for you to make one episode so we can then decide if we want to do it.
[00:20:55.720 --> 00:21:02.680] Or, hey, I love that and I want to pay for you to create this show, scripted, unscripted, whatever it is.
[00:21:02.680 --> 00:21:06.600] And then they own it because they paid for it.
[00:21:06.600 --> 00:21:07.960] That's what's typical.
[00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:18.240] And even the way we did it, it could be, they could make a case for, like, well, we're now having it distributing it for you, and we're going to pay for future seasons.
[00:21:14.840 --> 00:21:21.920] And we're paying your costs, so we own it now.
[00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:27.920] But that's the difference was that we were like, no, we've already done so much.
[00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:29.520] We've already done the entire first season.
[00:21:29.520 --> 00:21:37.920] At that point, we gave them episode one, a sizzle, a sizzle that represented the whole season and a detailed written treatment.
[00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:41.680] At that point, we gave them that, but we had 50, 60 interviews.
[00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:43.920] We were ready for season two at that point.
[00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:44.320] Wow.
[00:21:44.320 --> 00:21:47.680] So you had filmed complete interviews.
[00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:48.720] Complete it.
[00:21:48.800 --> 00:21:49.680] We had filmed.
[00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:50.640] Yeah, that's the thing.
[00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:54.720] To your point, like people will go in and they'll be like, I got what I need for this sizzle, so I'm out.
[00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:57.440] We've talked to people for hours.
[00:21:57.760 --> 00:21:59.520] So we had all of that content.
[00:21:59.520 --> 00:22:03.920] So you negotiated, of course, the ownership of your intellectual property.
[00:22:03.920 --> 00:22:06.880] Yes, and at a lower fee.
[00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:09.680] Most people aren't willing to do that, right?
[00:22:09.680 --> 00:22:16.560] You want to make your sizzle or write your script or whatever it is and say, here, pay me a whole bunch of money for this.
[00:22:16.560 --> 00:22:19.520] And I'm the creator, but you own it.
[00:22:19.520 --> 00:22:23.920] And in our case, it was like, okay, well, owns looking at us as any network would.
[00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:30.400] And they're like, okay, you can own it, but we're going to pay you less for it because we're not seeing the upside.
[00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:38.400] We're getting, you know, we can buy, we can get ad revenue against it, but we can't put it on our network for 15, 20 years.
[00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:41.280] We can put it on our network for the term that you give us.
[00:22:41.600 --> 00:22:43.040] So that was the difference.
[00:22:43.040 --> 00:22:55.040] And as a result, it meant that the future episodes, future seasons were more valuable to them because they had negotiated a lower license fee to license the show.
[00:22:55.360 --> 00:22:59.440] And in order for them to continue to get it, we would have to renegotiate all the time.
[00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:02.280] So it was just, it was just a different approach.
[00:23:02.280 --> 00:23:02.680] Yeah.
[00:22:59.840 --> 00:23:04.120] Thank you for sharing that with us.
[00:23:04.360 --> 00:23:15.640] So, what do you see happening with the inventory of just awesome seasons, content, all of that rich content if they weren't to you know continue licensing it?
[00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:23.080] Well, the thing about it is that what us licensing it to them rather than them owning it allowed us to license it elsewhere.
[00:23:23.080 --> 00:23:31.640] So it is on Discovery Plus, it's on Hulu, it's on, I think it's on Amazon Rim, as well as own.
[00:23:31.640 --> 00:23:39.960] And we also retained the right to stream it on our Black Love Plus app, which is a free app.
[00:23:39.960 --> 00:23:40.280] Nice.
[00:23:40.520 --> 00:23:46.040] That you can get on your phone, on your TV, your Roku, your Android, whatever you've got.
[00:23:46.040 --> 00:23:57.240] And there's a lot of other shows, as you were mentioning earlier, you know, Couch Conversations, which last season was hosted by Kevin Melissa Fredericks, and the previous season was Tav and Chance Brown and several other shows.
[00:23:57.480 --> 00:24:01.800] Yeah, our podcast network couch conversations for sure.
[00:24:01.800 --> 00:24:02.520] Love that.
[00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:04.760] We have a podcast network as well.
[00:24:04.760 --> 00:24:08.520] And one of our most popular shows is Black Love the Interviews.
[00:24:08.520 --> 00:24:18.360] So where you watch Own or you watch the docuseries and you see a 42-minute episode where any one couple is in there for maximum.
[00:24:18.360 --> 00:24:18.680] Yeah.
[00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:20.040] Eight minutes.
[00:24:20.360 --> 00:24:23.320] Eight minutes maximum per episode.
[00:24:23.320 --> 00:24:31.160] When you listen to Black Love the Interviews, you're listening to an hour of Viola Davis and Julius Tennant or Brian Tamia.
[00:24:31.160 --> 00:24:34.920] Or, you know, you're listening to the entire conversation that we had with them.
[00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:35.800] Yes.
[00:24:35.800 --> 00:24:40.040] Now that I love because, yeah, there are times I'm like, I want more of this couple.
[00:24:40.040 --> 00:24:42.120] Just cut everyone else.
[00:24:42.120 --> 00:24:44.040] I want to use from them.
[00:24:44.040 --> 00:24:45.120] Well, now you got it.
[00:24:44.600 --> 00:24:45.520] You got it.
[00:24:45.600 --> 00:24:48.800] That is always that one that story that you resonate with the most.
[00:24:44.840 --> 00:24:51.200] So, yeah, and that was important to me.
[00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:56.000] Yeah, that was super important to me because I fell in love with the couples.
[00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:03.760] I fell in love with, like, man, I wish we could tell that one story about when they went on their first date and this happened, but you don't have time in a TV show.
[00:25:03.760 --> 00:25:04.400] Yeah.
[00:25:04.400 --> 00:25:07.920] So, it was important to me to be able to share that with people.
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[00:28:00.680 --> 00:28:05.240] I'm also interested, of course, in the financial piece of this.
[00:28:05.240 --> 00:28:07.720] So, how do you fund this again?
[00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:10.920] Is it a thing where you guys are working full-time jobs?
[00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:15.000] Or how are you funding this without giving away ownership, taking on investment?
[00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:15.840] Yeah.
[00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:21.520] So, when we started, we both, I wouldn't say full-time jobs because we were in the film business.
[00:28:21.520 --> 00:28:33.920] So, when we started, we were, Tommy had just produced a movie in 2014 called The Perfect Guy, which was a Sony movie.
[00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:38.000] It was a nice little check for a 30-year-old at the time.
[00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:43.360] And then we produced an indie film, which was not a nice little check, but it was fun.
[00:28:44.560 --> 00:28:48.160] And we did that at the end of 2014.
[00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:52.400] And then I don't remember everything, but you know, we just took jobs, right?
[00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:53.600] Like film-related jobs.
[00:28:53.600 --> 00:28:56.960] So they were, you know, film jobs in a couple months here and there.
[00:28:56.960 --> 00:29:00.480] And that's what took us through.
[00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:01.600] Or Tommy, he's also a writer.
[00:29:01.600 --> 00:29:07.440] So he might write a script that he gets paid for and they maybe pay for rewrites, et cetera, et cetera.
[00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:08.320] All of that was happening.
[00:29:08.320 --> 00:29:12.160] All of that was being cobbled together to create a life.
[00:29:12.160 --> 00:29:12.720] Got it.
[00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:16.800] I didn't even have health insurance when I got pregnant in 2016.
[00:29:16.800 --> 00:29:18.240] I did not have health insurance.
[00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:20.240] Oh, my God.
[00:29:20.240 --> 00:29:20.800] Cody.
[00:29:20.800 --> 00:29:20.960] Yeah.
[00:29:20.960 --> 00:29:21.840] I mean, I got it.
[00:29:21.840 --> 00:29:24.080] I got health insurance once I got pregnant.
[00:29:24.080 --> 00:29:28.240] But going into that, like, that's where we were just like hustling.
[00:29:28.240 --> 00:29:30.880] And you're like, oh, God, we got to, you know.
[00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:31.520] Yes.
[00:29:31.840 --> 00:29:34.640] But I will say, they say babies bring blessings.
[00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:38.000] So in 2016, that's also when we licensed the show to own.
[00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:39.440] Like we were already making it.
[00:29:39.600 --> 00:29:42.240] We licensed it to own by October.
[00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:45.520] I think September was really when the conversation started picking up.
[00:29:45.520 --> 00:29:47.680] He was born on October 4th.
[00:29:47.680 --> 00:29:48.240] Wow.
[00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:51.920] So, you know, went from no health insurance to a whole life show.
[00:29:52.240 --> 00:29:52.800] Yeah.
[00:29:53.120 --> 00:29:54.640] Light at the end of the tunnel.
[00:29:54.640 --> 00:29:55.040] Okay.
[00:29:55.040 --> 00:29:55.520] Yes.
[00:29:55.920 --> 00:29:56.160] Yeah.
[00:29:56.160 --> 00:29:57.840] Isn't there something about that first baby?
[00:29:57.840 --> 00:30:01.800] Like, you might have some, especially as entrepreneurs, that first baby is entrepreneurs.
[00:30:02.040 --> 00:30:03.400] Like, oh, grandpa.
[00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:04.200] Yeah.
[00:29:59.680 --> 00:30:05.240] It's like so scary.
[00:29:59.760 --> 00:30:06.680] Yeah.
[00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:08.920] We can have a whole other.
[00:30:08.920 --> 00:30:12.200] Maybe I need to, you know, we need to have a whole other mama's conversation about that.
[00:30:12.200 --> 00:30:20.040] But I am so glad you mentioned that, though, because is it kind of a blessing to work in the film industry?
[00:30:20.040 --> 00:30:25.640] Because, yeah, usually on the show, we're talking about nine to fives, which are, you know, more of a corporate structure.
[00:30:25.640 --> 00:30:42.040] But then, yeah, when you, it's like a gift and a curse or a benefit and sometimes a hindrance of being able to work in an industry that's so flexible that you could work for a few months, get a, you know, if it's a good job, a bunch of cash, and then not work for a bit to work on your own project, but you have that cash.
[00:30:42.360 --> 00:30:46.280] That's, I would, I don't know that I would compare the two, right?
[00:30:46.280 --> 00:30:53.160] Because there's something about knowing month after month there's a check coming and there's benefits that come with that.
[00:30:53.160 --> 00:31:01.720] And then there's something about, like I said, the perfect guy, the film that he worked on, it was a substantial amount of money for, let's say, three months of work, right?
[00:31:01.720 --> 00:31:05.560] Most people might make that, whatever it was, in a year or something.
[00:31:06.600 --> 00:31:09.880] But in the film business, you don't know when that next job is coming.
[00:31:09.880 --> 00:31:10.440] That's true.
[00:31:10.440 --> 00:31:11.160] That's fair.
[00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:17.560] So it's just, you know, different perspectives and different ways to make a living, so to speak, to make your dream happen.
[00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:24.760] What are you working on now?
[00:31:24.760 --> 00:31:28.280] So you have other creative projects going on.
[00:31:28.280 --> 00:31:29.480] You have a podcast.
[00:31:29.480 --> 00:31:33.400] Tell us a little bit more about that and how that all came to be.
[00:31:33.400 --> 00:31:33.880] Yeah.
[00:31:34.520 --> 00:31:43.800] So, so you know, we have been doing most of the things I'm about to say for years, but obviously, the show, first off, takes a lot of my time and energy.
[00:31:43.800 --> 00:31:51.280] Tommy and I created an intimate environment where it's just the two of us with the couples, so there was no other crew from the beginning.
[00:31:51.440 --> 00:31:56.160] Like, hey, my name's Cody Lane Oliver, and we have this show and we want to interview you.
[00:31:56.160 --> 00:32:00.800] It was always me because we wanted to start an intimate relationship with the couples as early as possible.
[00:32:00.800 --> 00:32:02.880] So, we're not talking about publicists and managers.
[00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:09.200] Sometimes, yes, but we just tried at every step to create a closeness.
[00:32:09.680 --> 00:32:12.400] But that took a lot of time and energy.
[00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:19.760] And so, we have in the process of all of that, we launched the Black Love Summit in 2018, now going into its fifth year.
[00:32:19.760 --> 00:32:23.120] We launched BlackLove.com 2018.
[00:32:23.440 --> 00:32:27.040] Still, like, every time I say that, I'm like, we did those at the same time.
[00:32:28.400 --> 00:32:34.560] I was also having twins in November 2018, and we launched those things in October.
[00:32:35.200 --> 00:32:36.880] Very, very wild to me.
[00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:40.880] Like, you're like a superhero to me.
[00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:44.720] I appreciate it, but I don't know.
[00:32:44.720 --> 00:32:46.160] I don't know how it happens.
[00:32:47.040 --> 00:32:50.080] And so, we've been doing those things for five years.
[00:32:50.080 --> 00:32:52.880] We have year-round events.
[00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:56.080] So, once the pandemic happened, we started doing virtual events as well.
[00:32:56.080 --> 00:33:00.320] We did a women's wellness retreat that we'll bring back in 2023.
[00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:01.360] Oh, wow.
[00:33:01.360 --> 00:33:14.000] And we try to be a part of, man, cultural moments isn't the right way to say it because, like, we try to be a part of giving our community tools and information in the only ways that we know how, right?
[00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:17.600] Through transparency and listening to one another.
[00:33:17.600 --> 00:33:27.920] And so, for instance, during the pandemic, we did a town hall with various doctors all over the country to give people insight on like what are what questions do you have about COVID?
[00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:30.920] Like, this was at a time when we no one really knew what was going on.
[00:33:31.240 --> 00:33:47.000] And we had, you know, ER doctors and like we had people really giving tools and tips and insights and answering direct questions when it felt like we're just reading articles that don't actually pertain to us because you didn't, I didn't get my question answered.
[00:33:48.600 --> 00:33:59.720] We had lives with midwives so that women who were having babies in hospitals and out of hospitals could understand what it means to feel prepared.
[00:34:00.120 --> 00:34:01.560] So those are the things that we do.
[00:34:01.560 --> 00:34:05.720] You know, black maternal health is super important, but to me and to our brand.
[00:34:05.720 --> 00:34:23.240] But the pillars that have always remained important from the beginning, but especially with the launch of blacklove.com, you know, romantic relationships and dating, parenthood, physical and mental health, entrepreneurship, and community.
[00:34:23.240 --> 00:34:25.240] I'm trying to make sure I'm not leaving anything out.
[00:34:25.240 --> 00:34:30.040] So we try to make sure that we're hitting those things every step.
[00:34:30.040 --> 00:34:41.640] And so we launched the streaming service where we have all of these series that we created from a show called Doula Dads to Couch Conversations to all of our summits are there.
[00:34:41.640 --> 00:34:57.160] And we also have a podcast network with several podcasts that range from, if you remember, Kariga and Felicia Bailey, who were on Black Love season five, I want to say, who their first daughter transitioned the day she was born.
[00:34:57.480 --> 00:34:59.400] So they became angel parents.
[00:34:59.400 --> 00:35:04.040] And they have a podcast on our podcast network talking about grief and love.
[00:35:05.560 --> 00:35:10.600] We have another podcast on the network that is a couple who's been together over 30 years.
[00:35:10.600 --> 00:35:21.760] They are life coaches and dating coaches, the amazing Clarks, and they talk about dating and marriage and life and really just thriving from their unique vantage point.
[00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:29.920] And then I am the host of a podcast called My New BFF, where I interview people who basically that I want to get to know.
[00:35:30.720 --> 00:35:34.560] I interview people who like I want to get beyond whatever they're known for.
[00:35:34.560 --> 00:35:39.280] So if they're a singer, like Mickey Guyton, who's a country singer, like what else?
[00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:40.240] Like, how'd you get here?
[00:35:40.240 --> 00:35:41.680] What's your journey?
[00:35:42.240 --> 00:35:46.240] Nina Westbrook, who's a UCLA basketball player.
[00:35:46.240 --> 00:35:47.680] She's married to Russell Westbrook.
[00:35:47.680 --> 00:35:49.440] She's also a marriage and family therapist.
[00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:55.280] Like these are people where I see them on Instagram and I'm like, girl, tell me for real on Instagram.
[00:35:55.680 --> 00:36:01.040] Yeah, like I absolutely love her and I don't know her, but yeah, I would talk to her.
[00:36:01.680 --> 00:36:02.000] Same.
[00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:05.280] I was like, I'm a fan and you have twins and so do I.
[00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:06.560] Can we talk, right?
[00:36:06.560 --> 00:36:07.200] Yes.
[00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:11.680] And then I and then I host the Mama's Den with three other mamas.
[00:36:12.240 --> 00:36:16.240] I've been seeing your awesome content on IG.
[00:36:16.240 --> 00:36:29.600] And how do you, as you're planning out the Black Love platform, how do you decide which ideas to go after so that you are not doing too many things at once?
[00:36:29.600 --> 00:36:30.800] Girl, that's a good question.
[00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:33.040] I don't think we decide that very well at all.
[00:36:33.040 --> 00:36:39.280] I mean, for real, I would say that something we're not great at, right?
[00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:52.000] Like for the first couple of years, while I was editing, like producing, directing, editing the show, Tommy produces, and he's, he's very hands-on in the production phase and then like giving notes on cuts.
[00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:55.200] But like, I'm in the thick of this thing for like eight months at a time.
[00:36:55.240 --> 00:37:03.480] Um, so while we were in that phase, he would very much drive, like, we need a podcast network, we need an app, we need to do this.
[00:37:03.800 --> 00:37:13.720] And, um, and they were always great ideas, and so I would be like, okay, and then we weren't necessarily set up to continue whatever it was, so it would become very stressful.
[00:37:13.720 --> 00:37:19.240] Obviously, we have continued, um, and I'm grateful for it, but it's been very stressful at times.
[00:37:19.240 --> 00:37:25.320] Where that's a conversation now is like, how do I, in particular, not take on too much?
[00:37:25.320 --> 00:37:31.000] Because I do love, so I'm not to blame him, I was just using him as an example because he's very entrepreneurial.
[00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:34.280] His background is economics and business and film.
[00:37:34.280 --> 00:37:38.120] So, he's like running with these big ideas.
[00:37:38.120 --> 00:37:40.760] And then for me, it's like, yeah, I want to do this town hall.
[00:37:40.760 --> 00:37:47.080] And I want to, which I think ended up being the same time as like the you retreat that year or the summit.
[00:37:47.080 --> 00:37:51.080] You know, I want to, I want to, I want to host this podcast.
[00:37:51.080 --> 00:37:52.520] I want to host that podcast.
[00:37:52.520 --> 00:37:54.360] Oh, wait, now we have to continue doing those things.
[00:37:54.360 --> 00:37:57.960] Oh, wait, now we have to get people to sponsor them and buy into them.
[00:37:59.160 --> 00:38:02.440] And so you need a whole behind each thing.
[00:38:02.440 --> 00:38:02.840] Yeah.
[00:38:03.160 --> 00:38:16.120] And then, as you know, like as a mom, your the motherhood journey comes in these phases where you might think briefly for me, you might think, like, oh, we're in a pattern, we're in a routine.
[00:38:16.120 --> 00:38:20.360] I do this, I do that, I drop this, I give that some bath.
[00:38:20.360 --> 00:38:22.200] It's gone, it's gone.
[00:38:22.200 --> 00:38:25.320] And then you look up and I'm like, how did I get here with all these responsibilities?
[00:38:25.400 --> 00:38:27.880] And people looking at me like, so what's next?
[00:38:28.520 --> 00:38:34.040] People from three to 50 are looking at me like, what are we doing?
[00:38:34.040 --> 00:38:35.160] Right, right.
[00:38:35.480 --> 00:38:39.080] It's like, you are the captain of many, many ships.
[00:38:39.080 --> 00:38:48.880] And yeah, let's touch on the motherhood piece for a bit because you guys, we tried to do this interview a couple of times, and we keep having to reschedule either me or Cody.
[00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:56.400] And you know, it's funny, the last time that we rescheduled, I told my assistant, I was like, You know, she has three kids, and she that was it.
[00:38:56.400 --> 00:38:57.840] That's all I needed to say.
[00:38:57.840 --> 00:39:01.440] She was like, I can't even imagine.
[00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:04.240] I have one, and we were like, I don't, I can't even imagine.
[00:39:04.240 --> 00:39:08.720] It's nothing like negative about it, it's just an understanding that you have when you become a mom.
[00:39:08.720 --> 00:39:10.480] Like, stuff comes up, all right?
[00:39:10.480 --> 00:39:14.560] Like, every day you wake up, you literally do not know what is going to happen.
[00:39:14.560 --> 00:39:17.360] You might go into their room, and all of a sudden, they're congested.
[00:39:17.360 --> 00:39:19.360] It's like, where did this come from?
[00:39:19.360 --> 00:39:20.480] Why are you sick?
[00:39:20.480 --> 00:39:22.400] You got to go to school, right?
[00:39:22.720 --> 00:39:23.760] You got to get out of here.
[00:39:23.760 --> 00:39:25.280] I got stuff to do.
[00:39:25.280 --> 00:39:26.160] Oh my God.
[00:39:26.320 --> 00:39:35.120] So, what systems or people have you put into your life to help you so that you can still go after your dreams?
[00:39:35.120 --> 00:39:35.680] Yeah.
[00:39:35.680 --> 00:39:40.960] So, I have a nanny who I love who is like the key to everything.
[00:39:41.440 --> 00:39:43.840] Um, I want, I want her to live with us.
[00:39:43.840 --> 00:39:46.400] Uh, I want her to never leave ever.
[00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:50.240] Listen, I'm just going to plug care.com.
[00:39:50.240 --> 00:39:50.800] Okay.
[00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:51.200] Okay.
[00:39:51.200 --> 00:39:52.720] Uh, they should give you some money.
[00:39:52.720 --> 00:39:54.000] They should give me some money.
[00:39:54.000 --> 00:39:58.800] Um, but I actually have found all of my caregivers on care.com.
[00:39:58.800 --> 00:39:59.520] Oh, wow.
[00:39:59.520 --> 00:39:59.840] Okay.
[00:39:59.840 --> 00:40:01.520] And of course, there's word of mouth too.
[00:40:01.520 --> 00:40:08.800] I would, you know, but all of the long-term folks, or I would say two out of three, two out of three of the long-term people have come from care.com.
[00:40:09.280 --> 00:40:13.760] And, and so, if a lot of people are like, oh, I don't, you know, I'm nervous to meet strangers.
[00:40:14.640 --> 00:40:18.320] I always tell moms, like, you can have somebody come in your house and you're there.
[00:40:18.320 --> 00:40:20.800] Like, nobody's telling you to leave on day one.
[00:40:20.800 --> 00:40:20.960] Right.
[00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:23.680] Be there, watch them, learn them.
[00:40:23.680 --> 00:40:26.800] But, um, yeah, so that's how I we found each other.
[00:40:26.800 --> 00:40:31.800] And funny enough, this is this might be a lesson for like any job interview.
[00:40:29.680 --> 00:40:35.000] She was the first resume this particular year, obviously.
[00:40:35.080 --> 00:40:37.480] Like, she's been working with us for almost two years.
[00:40:37.480 --> 00:40:38.920] So, this was just two years ago.
[00:40:38.920 --> 00:40:41.560] She was the first resume that came through.
[00:40:42.040 --> 00:40:46.920] She was super professional, which, like, it isn't always the case of like nannies and babysitters, right?
[00:40:46.920 --> 00:40:51.720] They're, you know, it's just a different, different, um, I don't know, different mindset.
[00:40:51.720 --> 00:40:53.560] Um, she was super professional.
[00:40:53.560 --> 00:40:56.520] And, and I was like, there's no way it's the first one.
[00:40:56.520 --> 00:40:58.680] Like, there's no, I have to interview more people.
[00:40:59.320 --> 00:41:00.440] Right, right.
[00:41:00.440 --> 00:41:04.760] And Tommy was like, listen, if she's the one, she's the one.
[00:41:05.080 --> 00:41:07.080] And so, no regrets.
[00:41:07.080 --> 00:41:08.520] Best thing that's ever happened.
[00:41:08.760 --> 00:41:09.880] I love to hear that.
[00:41:09.880 --> 00:41:14.200] You're going to make me try Care.com again because, yeah, I wasn't as lucky.
[00:41:14.200 --> 00:41:19.160] And it's just, it can be a little bit.
[00:41:19.160 --> 00:41:21.000] But I've met some before.
[00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:22.120] Like, I mean, I'm going to be honest.
[00:41:22.120 --> 00:41:24.120] I don't, I think it's safe space.
[00:41:24.120 --> 00:41:29.880] I mean, I look for, I care about, you know, brown women and young women.
[00:41:30.440 --> 00:41:31.160] Everybody's different.
[00:41:31.160 --> 00:41:33.400] Some people like a grandmother, a grandmother type.
[00:41:33.400 --> 00:41:36.120] I like somebody who's going to keep up with these kids.
[00:41:36.120 --> 00:41:37.880] No disrespect to the grandmothers.
[00:41:37.880 --> 00:41:41.320] I like somebody who's going to jump around, run around with them.
[00:41:41.320 --> 00:41:44.200] So who's going to feel like a big sister type?
[00:41:44.440 --> 00:41:46.840] That was like my mentality when looking.
[00:41:47.160 --> 00:41:53.560] And so I go in and I look, I weed out based on Melanin.
[00:41:53.560 --> 00:42:02.040] And then I just, I just try to reach out to a bunch of people and do, you know, I've done phone interviews.
[00:42:02.040 --> 00:42:04.680] I've done Zoom interviews, and then in person, and all of that.
[00:42:04.680 --> 00:42:06.200] So it's a process.
[00:42:06.200 --> 00:42:06.840] It's a thing.
[00:42:06.840 --> 00:42:07.000] Yeah.
[00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:08.920] It's hiring for your life.
[00:42:08.920 --> 00:42:14.280] Hiring for your life is something that, you know, we all got to get better about.
[00:42:14.280 --> 00:42:21.840] I talked about that on a solo episode about, you know, how I just really was brought to my attention actually reading Rachel Rogers' book.
[00:42:21.920 --> 00:42:26.880] But yeah, it's like you can't get good at hiring for your business if you aren't yet good at hiring for your life.
[00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:32.000] Because what's more important than who's taking care of your kids and who's going to be in your home doing these different things?
[00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:33.760] Like that's really, really important.
[00:42:33.760 --> 00:42:39.600] So, you know, it's a learning curve and something that we can all stretch our muscle on.
[00:42:39.600 --> 00:42:43.280] And it will actually help us in our side hustles and in our business.
[00:42:43.680 --> 00:42:44.160] Agreed.
[00:42:44.160 --> 00:42:46.640] And then also help us to go after our goals.
[00:42:46.640 --> 00:42:48.400] Because I was listening to an interview.
[00:42:48.400 --> 00:42:51.040] I think it was with Kerry Washington last night.
[00:42:51.040 --> 00:43:01.840] And she just talked about how I forget the quote she said, but she talked about how she saw a quote that, you know, like you don't have to choose between being a mom and being and having this awesome career.
[00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:04.160] And she had put that on her vision board one year.
[00:43:04.160 --> 00:43:12.320] But I was just reminded of how I know so many of us now who we have big dreams, big goals, and we're going after them.
[00:43:12.320 --> 00:43:21.040] It's like it's not one or the other, but we still do have to talk about the sacrifices that come with that and you know the juggling.
[00:43:21.040 --> 00:43:25.760] So what has that been like for you in terms of is it losing sleep?
[00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:29.120] Is it maybe going after less things that you want to go after?
[00:43:29.120 --> 00:43:36.240] Like how have you found adjusting to going after both of those things?
[00:43:37.040 --> 00:43:43.520] I'm going to say, weirdly, there's very little that I don't go after.
[00:43:43.840 --> 00:43:46.960] And I don't even think I'm like that ambitious.
[00:43:46.960 --> 00:43:47.440] Yeah.
[00:43:47.640 --> 00:43:48.800] Um, I really don't.
[00:43:50.400 --> 00:43:52.160] I'm not saying that I'm not.
[00:43:52.160 --> 00:44:00.600] I'm just saying that, like, when something comes my way, when an opportunity comes my way, or when there's something that I want, I'll start to plant the.
[00:44:00.600 --> 00:44:03.240] So, if there's something I want, I'll plant the seeds, right?
[00:43:59.840 --> 00:44:05.800] If there's something that comes my way, and I'm like, man, I want to do that.
[00:44:06.120 --> 00:44:15.960] Um, or maybe what it is, is right now my life is set up in a way that I can do that, partially because of Erica is her name.
[00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:23.160] And so, I, but I understand what it has been like when I didn't have that same flexibility, right?
[00:44:23.640 --> 00:44:38.840] And, and so, I heard a quote last year that is, you can have it all, but you can't do it all, and that really stuck with me because I, I, I, I do believe in that, even if I didn't have the words for it until I heard this quote.
[00:44:38.840 --> 00:44:54.520] Um, but the lesson is like you gotta figure out how to outsource to people, um, whether that is housekeeping, nanny, gardener, even HR for your business, um, whether that is paying someone, right?
[00:44:54.520 --> 00:45:04.600] We're talking about side hustles, whether that is paying someone to build that website that you don't really know how to build, but you're trying because you learned on the Kayla's podcast that it's easy to learn in sparespace.
[00:45:04.600 --> 00:45:07.240] For some of us, it's not easy, you know what I mean?
[00:45:07.560 --> 00:45:18.040] But the point is, like, don't beat yourself up over it if you know that, like, spending this little bit of money to get that thing done is going to make your life easier and better and move faster.
[00:45:18.040 --> 00:45:22.680] Those are the like things that we have to think through.
[00:45:22.680 --> 00:45:23.960] How will this help me?
[00:45:23.960 --> 00:45:26.360] Is this the right investment for me?
[00:45:26.360 --> 00:45:50.560] Um, in order to have the life we want, what we spend our money on, like those early investments, it is it not only does it pay off, but also it starts to train us to invest in our business, like a real investor, like to really look at what we're spending and say, all right, I would rather put this $100 towards hiring someone on Fiverr to do this thing for me, you know.
[00:45:50.880 --> 00:45:55.600] And, but we just got to remember to not also spend another hundred on Amazon.
[00:45:55.600 --> 00:45:58.960] Like, we have to shift the allocation.
[00:45:58.960 --> 00:46:01.600] It's like knowing that the decision matters, right?
[00:46:01.600 --> 00:46:08.640] It doesn't mean feel guilty because you bought the shoes or the whatever, but it means that if you was looking at the shoes, you like, dang, I could have, I could have done this.
[00:46:08.640 --> 00:46:12.880] And then, and I wouldn't be stressed right now trying to build this website at two in the morning.
[00:46:12.880 --> 00:46:13.440] You know what I mean?
[00:46:13.680 --> 00:46:17.360] Just having this clear picture of like, yeah, what needs to happen.
[00:46:17.600 --> 00:46:19.440] What the choices that you make mean.
[00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:20.000] Yeah.
[00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:20.880] Right.
[00:46:25.360 --> 00:46:34.640] Before we get into the lightning round, another thing you said I really wanted to touch on, which is this idea of always being asked what's next, right?
[00:46:34.640 --> 00:46:35.920] And I used to do that.
[00:46:35.920 --> 00:46:43.040] And I've really, you know, stopped and tried to remember not to in the last few years because nothing needs to be next.
[00:46:43.040 --> 00:46:52.640] And I say that in terms of, you know, let me know how you feel about this, but in your career thus far, a lot of things that you've done and what you're currently doing, you could have never pictured.
[00:46:52.640 --> 00:47:01.200] So if you try to tell people what's next, like that, it's not even going to be what's next because what's next, you can't, you probably can't even visualize right now.
[00:47:01.200 --> 00:47:02.080] You know what I mean?
[00:47:02.080 --> 00:47:08.400] Like if you're truly working towards this life that you're going to be leading.
[00:47:08.400 --> 00:47:12.240] So I want to just affirm you in that and say, like, I believe in you.
[00:47:12.240 --> 00:47:23.760] I believe that you're, you're walking already in your calling, and that, you know, no matter what you do, like individually, it might look like, oh, it's just this or, or oh, it's just that, but it's actually way bigger than that.
[00:47:24.080 --> 00:47:35.240] As a fellow podcaster, you know, who still struggles with, oh, I have a podcast, like, how that still sounds so like, you know, but it's bigger than that.
[00:47:35.560 --> 00:47:37.960] You were the original podcaster, okay?
[00:47:38.920 --> 00:47:45.560] You have helped a lot of people with this, with this podcast, like tremendously.
[00:47:45.560 --> 00:47:53.560] And I, and I have seen it, but also just knowing it in the early, well, I was gonna say the early stage, like when we did that interview, I think you were still 100%.
[00:47:53.800 --> 00:47:55.000] It was the early stage.
[00:47:55.000 --> 00:47:58.280] Yeah, you were still deep.
[00:47:58.680 --> 00:48:00.760] You know, you got to scroll all the way back.
[00:48:00.760 --> 00:48:01.400] Yep.
[00:48:01.720 --> 00:48:02.600] So thank you.
[00:48:02.600 --> 00:48:04.280] Thank you for that.
[00:48:06.840 --> 00:48:09.720] So now we're going to jump into a quick lightning round.
[00:48:09.720 --> 00:48:11.720] Just answer the first thing that comes to mind.
[00:48:12.200 --> 00:48:13.800] No Google, no celebrities.
[00:48:13.800 --> 00:48:14.600] All right.
[00:48:14.600 --> 00:48:15.000] Okay.
[00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:15.400] Okay.
[00:48:15.720 --> 00:48:16.280] All right.
[00:48:16.280 --> 00:48:24.200] So number one, what is a resource that has helped you in your business that you can share with a sidehouse or pro audience?
[00:48:24.200 --> 00:48:25.960] Like I said, no Google.
[00:48:26.600 --> 00:48:28.120] My assistant.
[00:48:30.120 --> 00:48:32.040] And how did you find your assistant?
[00:48:32.040 --> 00:48:32.840] Oh, good question.
[00:48:32.840 --> 00:48:33.880] Word of mouth.
[00:48:33.880 --> 00:48:39.640] Number two, who is a black woman entrepreneur that you would switch places with for a day, non-celebrity?
[00:48:39.640 --> 00:48:40.520] And why?
[00:48:40.840 --> 00:48:41.960] For a day.
[00:48:41.960 --> 00:48:42.840] Morgan.
[00:48:43.160 --> 00:48:44.600] Morgan DeBond.
[00:48:44.920 --> 00:48:45.640] Yeah.
[00:48:45.960 --> 00:48:47.240] And why?
[00:48:48.360 --> 00:48:59.160] Because of what she's built, because she has, you know, I did not come into this thing with anybody's business degree or MBA.
[00:48:59.160 --> 00:49:11.880] And so to sort of step into her world where she has this purview that I don't would be fascinating and empowering.
[00:49:11.880 --> 00:49:15.600] Number three, what's a non-negotiable part of your day?
[00:49:15.600 --> 00:49:17.040] Coffee.
[00:49:19.200 --> 00:49:25.280] Number four, what is a personal habit about you that you think contributes to your success?
[00:49:25.280 --> 00:49:31.280] I'm going to say my like friendliness, like my like engagement with people.
[00:49:31.600 --> 00:49:43.200] And then finally, number five, tell us what is your parting advice these days for fellow women side hustlers who want to be their own boss but are scared to lose a study paycheck.
[00:49:44.080 --> 00:49:45.760] I was scared too.
[00:49:46.080 --> 00:49:48.480] Wait, but that's not advice.
[00:49:50.240 --> 00:49:56.400] It's okay to be afraid, but if you know that this is what you're supposed to be doing, you have to give it a shot.
[00:49:56.400 --> 00:49:57.280] Love that.
[00:49:57.280 --> 00:49:58.560] Love that.
[00:49:58.560 --> 00:50:01.600] And with that, you know, thank you so much for being in the guest chair.
[00:50:01.600 --> 00:50:08.320] Where can people connect with you and all of your many projects after this episode?
[00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:12.320] I would say Instagram is great.
[00:50:12.320 --> 00:50:15.120] I am Cody Co, C-O-D-I-E-C-O.
[00:50:15.600 --> 00:50:19.120] I don't do enough sharing about my business stuff on Cody Co.
[00:50:19.200 --> 00:50:22.480] So go to Black Love at Black Love, which is our Instagram.
[00:50:22.480 --> 00:50:24.800] Our website is blacklove.com.
[00:50:25.920 --> 00:50:26.560] It is me.
[00:50:26.560 --> 00:50:28.480] It is a part of my being.
[00:50:28.720 --> 00:50:30.480] Everything that we put out over there.
[00:50:30.480 --> 00:50:34.320] So I would say those are the best places to find me.
[00:50:34.640 --> 00:50:37.280] And we will link to those in the show notes, you guys.
[00:50:37.280 --> 00:50:39.280] And with that, there you have it.
[00:50:40.880 --> 00:50:43.920] Hey guys, thanks for listening to Side Hustle Pro.
[00:50:43.920 --> 00:50:48.640] If you like the show, be sure to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts.
[00:50:48.640 --> 00:50:52.400] It helps other side hustlers just like you to find the show.
[00:50:52.400 --> 00:50:56.960] And if you want to hear more from me, you can follow me on Instagram at Side Hustle Pro.
[00:50:56.960 --> 00:51:03.800] Plus, sign up for my six-foot Saturday newsletter at sidehustlepro.co/slash newsletter.
[00:51:04.120 --> 00:51:11.480] When you sign up, you will receive weekly nuggets from me, including what I'm up to, personal lessons, and my business tip of the week.
[00:51:11.480 --> 00:51:16.200] Again, that's sidehustlepro.co/slash newsletter to sign up.
[00:51:16.200 --> 00:51:17.720] Talk to you soon.
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Prompt 2: Key Takeaways

Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.

Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...". 

Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive. 

IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}

Prompt 3: Segments

Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.

For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)  
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion

IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
  "segments": [
    {
      "segment_title": "Topic Discussion", 
      "timestamp": "01:15:30",
      "key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
      "segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
    }
  ]
}

Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.

Prompt 4: Media Mentions

Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:

Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)  
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)

DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names

IMPORTANT: 
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
  "media_mentions": [
    {
      "title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
      "category": "Book",
      "author_artist": "N/A",
      "context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
      "context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
      "timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
    }
  ]
}

If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}

Full Transcript

[00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:02.800] Hi, I'm Dorena, co-founder of OpenPhone.
[00:00:02.800 --> 00:00:07.440] My dad is a business owner, and growing up, I'll never forget his old ringtone.
[00:00:07.440 --> 00:00:12.960] He made it as loud as it could go because he could not afford to miss a single customer call.
[00:00:12.960 --> 00:00:14.320] That stuck with me.
[00:00:14.320 --> 00:00:22.960] When we started OpenPhone, our mission was to help businesses not just stay in touch, but make every customer feel valued, no matter when they might call.
[00:00:22.960 --> 00:00:29.920] OpenPhone gives your team business phone numbers to call and text customers, all through an app on your phone or computer.
[00:00:29.920 --> 00:00:37.280] Your calls, messages, and contacts live in one workspace, so your team can stay fully aligned and reply faster.
[00:00:37.280 --> 00:00:42.960] And with our AI agent answering 24/7, you'll really never miss a customer.
[00:00:42.960 --> 00:00:46.080] Over 60,000 businesses use Open Phone.
[00:00:46.080 --> 00:00:55.760] Try it now and get 20% off your first six months at openphone.com/slash tech, and we can port your existing numbers over for free.
[00:00:55.760 --> 00:00:59.760] Open phone, no missed calls, no missed customers.
[00:00:59.760 --> 00:01:04.720] Does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the void?
[00:01:05.920 --> 00:01:11.120] But with LinkedIn ads, you can know you're reaching the right decision makers, a network of 130 million of them, in fact.
[00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:16.960] You can even target buyers by job title, industry, company, seniority, skills, and did I say job title?
[00:01:16.960 --> 00:01:20.800] See how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads.
[00:01:20.800 --> 00:01:25.760] Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a free $250 credit for the next one.
[00:01:25.760 --> 00:01:28.160] Get started at linkedin.com/slash campaign.
[00:01:28.160 --> 00:01:30.080] Terms and conditions apply.
[00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:36.720] And as an entrepreneur or anyone with a side hustle or just a hustle, right?
[00:01:36.720 --> 00:01:41.200] It can easily get so scary when you're like, I can't do that.
[00:01:41.200 --> 00:01:46.160] Whatever it is, instead of having the mentality, how can I do that?
[00:01:47.120 --> 00:01:55.840] You're listening to Side Hustle Pro, the podcast that teaches you to build and grow your side hustle from passion project to profitable business.
[00:01:55.840 --> 00:01:58.800] And I'm your host, Nikayla Matthews Okome.
[00:01:58.800 --> 00:02:00.000] So let's get started.
[00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:02.680] Hey, hey, guys, welcome.
[00:02:02.680 --> 00:02:03.640] Welcome back to the show.
[00:02:03.640 --> 00:02:06.520] Today, in the guest chair, I have Cody Elaine Oliver.
[00:02:06.520 --> 00:02:16.920] Cody is the CEO and co-founder of Black Love Inc., which is the premier 100% Black-owned partner for celebrating 360 degrees of Black Love.
[00:02:16.920 --> 00:02:33.320] The media company, founded by Cody and her husband, Tommy Oliver, is a hub for black couples and singles to have transparent conversations around relationships, parenthood, dating, and more through their app, podcast network, documentaries, and live events.
[00:02:33.320 --> 00:02:42.760] Cody is an NAACP Image Award-nominated director and co-creator, and she is building her legacy with a mission of authenticity and love.
[00:02:42.760 --> 00:02:48.840] And in today's episode, she shares how she started forging her unique path in media.
[00:02:48.840 --> 00:03:00.680] She also shares how she and her husband Tommy self-funded Black Love Inc., plus the strategic moves she made to pitch Black Love to a network while maintaining ownership.
[00:03:00.680 --> 00:03:10.440] And she also talks about the systems that she has in place to manage a thriving career while being a mom of three, including twins, and so much more.
[00:03:13.000 --> 00:03:14.520] Hey, hey, guys, welcome back.
[00:03:14.520 --> 00:03:17.240] We have an awesome, awesome guest in the guest chair today.
[00:03:17.240 --> 00:03:19.800] Cody, welcome back to the Side Hustle Procedure.
[00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:20.840] Thank you for being here.
[00:03:20.840 --> 00:03:22.600] Thank you for having me.
[00:03:22.600 --> 00:03:23.800] It's been a while.
[00:03:23.800 --> 00:03:29.800] Yeah, now that you've done a few of your own podcasts, like, how does it feel now being back in the guest chair?
[00:03:29.800 --> 00:03:31.960] Oh my gosh, that's so funny.
[00:03:31.960 --> 00:03:34.120] This is probably the first podcast I ever did.
[00:03:34.120 --> 00:03:35.320] Oh, wow.
[00:03:35.320 --> 00:03:35.960] Yeah.
[00:03:35.960 --> 00:03:37.880] Like, you know, you're a trailblazer.
[00:03:37.880 --> 00:03:38.200] Okay.
[00:03:38.200 --> 00:03:39.160] You know that.
[00:03:39.160 --> 00:03:40.520] Oh, I'm trying.
[00:03:40.520 --> 00:03:42.520] I'm trying out here.
[00:03:43.160 --> 00:03:46.080] So, you have been up to so much.
[00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:52.480] I mean, I'm just looking at all that you've done with Black Love and what you're continuing to do.
[00:03:52.480 --> 00:03:57.760] So, I, of course, need to give the folks who didn't listen to your first episode, which was so long ago.
[00:03:57.760 --> 00:04:00.240] Matter of fact, I didn't even look what year that was.
[00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:02.960] It was probably 2017, 2018.
[00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:05.200] So, give us a peek into your life.
[00:04:05.200 --> 00:04:09.200] Like, when did you start forging your own path?
[00:04:09.520 --> 00:04:11.280] Yeah, old girl, my own path.
[00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:14.080] I probably started forging my own path after college.
[00:04:14.080 --> 00:04:31.280] But I was thinking of you when I saw all the Howard homecoming stuff on my feed, and I was just trying to think: I wonder how, how do you go from a traditional college background at Howard to where you are today in the media industry and starting your own media company?
[00:04:31.280 --> 00:04:38.160] But not just that, my parents are doctor and lawyer, so it was definitely a lot of like going against the grain, right?
[00:04:38.480 --> 00:04:41.440] Um, and so, how did I get here?
[00:04:41.440 --> 00:04:46.000] I mean, I've always been creative, I've always been, I would say, an artist.
[00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:48.960] Like, I was acting when I was little and singing.
[00:04:48.960 --> 00:04:54.720] And I basically, at some point, I was so into acting, I was on a TV show in sixth grade.
[00:04:54.720 --> 00:05:00.960] Like, I ultimately had to choose between that and athletics because I also played sports year-round.
[00:05:00.960 --> 00:05:07.200] And, you know, when you're in high school, you got school, you got these two things were taking over my life, and I really had to pick one.
[00:05:07.200 --> 00:05:15.440] And so, I picked athletics, and I have zero regrets, but that creative part of me was always there.
[00:05:15.760 --> 00:05:29.680] And so, fast-forwarding, you know, just summarizing, I even chose my major in college, which was business at first, because I was like, Well, I don't want to be like in finance, but everybody needs business majors.
[00:05:29.800 --> 00:05:36.520] So, I'll go work somewhere where they're doing creative things and like just be in the room where it happens, right?
[00:05:36.840 --> 00:05:45.240] And I changed my major to broadcast journalism, but um, then I graduated, I worked in broadcast journalism and I hated the news.
[00:05:45.240 --> 00:05:53.320] And then I was like, No, I really need to be creative, I need to be making up stories, not telling the real ones because the real ones may be a little too much.
[00:05:53.320 --> 00:06:02.760] And um, and so I went to film school at that point, and my parents were so supportive, but they had no idea what I was doing.
[00:06:03.240 --> 00:06:10.600] Listen, all of this is so relatable, all of this is like you know, change a few parts, but so many of us have this experience.
[00:06:10.600 --> 00:06:21.640] It's interesting that, you know, especially given the stories that you tell now and help to bring to the big screen, that you gave up the acting.
[00:06:21.640 --> 00:06:24.360] Did you ever see yourself in front of the camera again?
[00:06:24.360 --> 00:06:27.080] Yeah, I thought about it when I was in college.
[00:06:27.080 --> 00:06:32.360] I took an acting class when I went to film school.
[00:06:32.360 --> 00:06:40.360] I don't remember if I was ever on camera, but there was lots of opportunities to sort of just collaborate with folks and just like be, you know, on all sides.
[00:06:40.360 --> 00:06:43.160] And so, I certainly was like, Man, I'm moving to LA.
[00:06:43.160 --> 00:06:45.640] Like, is this something I want to think about again?
[00:06:45.640 --> 00:06:48.120] But no, I've never prioritized it since.
[00:06:48.120 --> 00:06:52.360] I've never made it a thing, and you got to put effort into it.
[00:06:52.360 --> 00:06:55.000] You do anything, anything that you want to succeed at.
[00:06:55.000 --> 00:07:07.880] And for me, I always want these kind of episodes where I talk to creatives like yourself to inspire people who are on the fence who are like, Yeah, that is something that's calling me, but how am I going to make money?
[00:07:07.880 --> 00:07:09.640] What's that really look like?
[00:07:09.640 --> 00:07:13.480] So, I always want people to see how it's possible.
[00:07:13.480 --> 00:07:23.520] So, for you, going to film school, did you have those fears of, will I really make money or will I just graduate and like have a bunch of screenplays under my belt?
[00:07:23.520 --> 00:07:33.280] Listen, I'm sure I thought I'm going to be big, you know, like there's no way I could have done that without feeling that way.
[00:07:33.280 --> 00:07:38.960] Now, look, once I got in the business, it was like, oh my God, there's no way to make money here.
[00:07:39.280 --> 00:07:48.880] But when I went to film school, it was, you know, I was super passionate about storytelling and what was possible.
[00:07:49.200 --> 00:07:56.720] And I knew that, you know, the entertainment business could yield a lot of money, the same as the journalism business, right?
[00:07:56.720 --> 00:08:04.800] Then the broadcast journalism business, but there's a certain level that you have to get to to make that money and everything else pays pennies.
[00:08:05.120 --> 00:08:06.240] And I knew that.
[00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:19.920] And so there was no doubt that going to film school with my, you know, with who I am and what I'm capable of and how I like to, how my ideas are so unique.
[00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:23.680] There was no doubt that I would be successful.
[00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:25.920] But it was very hard.
[00:08:25.920 --> 00:08:27.200] It was certainly not success.
[00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:30.560] I was certainly not successful for a very long time.
[00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:39.280] And so how did you structure your career in media, both in film school and once you graduated?
[00:08:39.680 --> 00:08:42.560] So I had no idea what to expect going into film school.
[00:08:42.560 --> 00:08:44.000] Like, what's the path after that?
[00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:44.240] Right.
[00:08:44.320 --> 00:08:46.640] I think I just thought you go to film school and you get a job.
[00:08:46.640 --> 00:08:54.400] And whether that job is like in a studio or something, or whether that job is on a set, I will figure it out.
[00:08:54.400 --> 00:08:56.240] And that is part of it.
[00:08:56.440 --> 00:08:57.920] That is, that is a path.
[00:08:57.920 --> 00:09:04.840] And then, and then there's nuances to like, well, what kind of job yields what I ultimately wanted to be doing, which was producing.
[00:09:05.160 --> 00:09:07.560] So, all of this, of course, I learned in film school.
[00:09:07.560 --> 00:09:10.280] I had no idea going in what to expect.
[00:09:10.280 --> 00:09:19.640] And so, my expected path was to work for a producer and go rise in the ranks alongside them.
[00:09:19.640 --> 00:09:23.880] So, maybe be their assistant and then be a coordinator and then be an executive.
[00:09:23.880 --> 00:09:26.040] And now I'm producing.
[00:09:26.680 --> 00:09:33.960] I think that's what I that is what I expected and wanted, what I thought the trajectory was going to be, and what I pursued.
[00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:35.000] I mean, I was very intentional.
[00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:48.920] I did every internship, every internship, sometimes two a semester, and try to be really thoughtful about which ones as well would really give me the most relationships and understanding of the business.
[00:09:48.920 --> 00:09:51.080] And I'm, and I'm proud of that, right?
[00:09:51.080 --> 00:10:13.560] I feel like I feel like those experiences are all paying off so much later, but um, but there was a time at a certain point where it was just like nothing felt like it was paying off, and um, and so, and so I questioned everything, yeah, and yeah, yeah, I left the business at some point.
[00:10:13.560 --> 00:10:14.360] What do you mean by that?
[00:10:14.360 --> 00:10:24.280] You went and got a quote-unquote real job, yes, I had been working at the Los Angeles Film Festival, which was also well, okay.
[00:10:24.280 --> 00:10:28.840] I got hired as the assistant to the festival director at the Los Angeles Film Festival.
[00:10:28.840 --> 00:10:32.200] She's also a full-time producer, so I was like, This is a win, right?
[00:10:32.520 --> 00:10:46.640] Little did I know when I got hired that Film Independent is a nonprofit organization that runs the Los Angeles Film Festival and the Independent Spirit Awards and year-round labs for filmmakers, and as a nonprofit, everybody does everything, right?
[00:10:46.640 --> 00:10:55.680] So basically, my film festival gig was like five months, Independent Spirit Awards was like five months, and then what's left too?
[00:10:55.680 --> 00:11:01.440] So then there's, you know, which, which really the labs were year-round, so they overlapped all of it, right?
[00:11:01.760 --> 00:11:21.440] So after several years there, and many things that didn't go the way I wanted them to go, or projects that I was working on on the side that were not coming to fruition, and then having personal stuff, my dad was sick, and I was like, man, I don't even have enough money to just like fly back and forth to have the freedom to go home as much as I want to.
[00:11:21.440 --> 00:11:24.720] So I was, I started applying for jobs.
[00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:27.120] You know, I'm very much a safety person, right?
[00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:35.440] So it was like, all right, I'm going to try to find a job in the film business, but at Discovery, which was in Silver Spring, Maryland.
[00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:38.640] I went to Howard, so that was down the street for me the whole time.
[00:11:38.640 --> 00:11:48.240] And I knew that there was more stability within their structure, or I'm going to go work at a PR firm.
[00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:49.840] I mean, there were nuances to it, right?
[00:11:49.840 --> 00:11:50.880] I was like, what are my skills?
[00:11:51.440 --> 00:11:52.560] I'm an event producer.
[00:11:52.720 --> 00:11:53.280] I'm creative.
[00:11:53.280 --> 00:11:53.920] I can do marketing.
[00:11:54.720 --> 00:12:02.160] So I ended up, this PR firm became an opportunity where I would work with Canon, the camera company.
[00:12:02.160 --> 00:12:05.280] They have a line of cinema cameras that they were, that was new at the time.
[00:12:05.280 --> 00:12:10.400] And I was connecting them to filmmakers, but through being their publicist.
[00:12:10.720 --> 00:12:16.880] And so I took that job because it paid regular adult money.
[00:12:16.920 --> 00:12:20.320] You know, and you can rely on.
[00:12:20.640 --> 00:12:32.680] Yes, yes, and um, and was a new experience, and and and didn't leave me uh waiting for someone to buy my script or you know, green light my project.
[00:12:32.920 --> 00:12:34.520] It was a job, right?
[00:12:34.840 --> 00:12:48.760] And so that's what I did, and that was me leaving the business only to meet Tommy, my husband, six months later, and uh, and then leave the PR firm dive head first in.
[00:12:48.760 --> 00:12:51.960] So, we're gonna get to that in a minute because I always love that story.
[00:12:51.960 --> 00:13:01.880] And what I love about your journey is the fact that there are times when we have to supplement our income.
[00:13:01.880 --> 00:13:07.400] All right, the side hustle is not always gonna pay us on the road to profitable business.
[00:13:07.400 --> 00:13:18.360] We have to supplement, and you gotta look for that because don't you find you're able to make more clear-headed decisions when you are not worried about money?
[00:13:18.680 --> 00:13:24.360] I would say a hundred percent, a hundred and thirty percent, and and everyone's not like that, right?
[00:13:24.360 --> 00:13:27.400] Like, yeah, Tommy's not like that.
[00:13:27.400 --> 00:13:33.080] Um, he's really good at making clear-headed decisions all the time, you know.
[00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:39.800] There's that whole and a personality, I think, right?
[00:13:39.800 --> 00:13:46.760] I think some people either are born with it or cultivate it, um, but I that ain't me.
[00:13:46.760 --> 00:13:58.840] I think it's Rich Dad, poor dad that talks about, well, I mean, they talk about a lot of things there, but just even just the mindset of how can I afford this and not I can't afford.
[00:13:58.840 --> 00:14:03.480] And as an entrepreneur or anyone with a side hustle or just a hustle, right?
[00:14:03.800 --> 00:14:08.720] Like, it can easily get so scary when you're like, I can't do that.
[00:14:08.720 --> 00:14:11.080] Whatever it is, I can't do that.
[00:14:11.080 --> 00:14:14.880] Instead of having the mentality, how can I do that?
[00:14:15.520 --> 00:14:16.320] Which I hear.
[00:14:14.440 --> 00:14:18.240] I'm even saying it to you, right?
[00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:24.320] I recognize intellectually, I understand it, but that is a muscle that people build.
[00:14:25.200 --> 00:14:26.640] That absolutely is a muscle.
[00:14:26.640 --> 00:14:33.840] So I'm glad you said that too, muscle, because a lot of times we talk about mindset on this show and the mindset shifts we need to make.
[00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:43.680] Even today, I was talking to, I had a call with my website designer, and I was saying, instead of saying I'm behind, I've been starting to say I'm catching up.
[00:14:44.640 --> 00:14:51.920] Yeah, that's important to shift your language to yourself because you feel so bad about yourself when you say certain things.
[00:14:52.240 --> 00:14:53.440] But it is a muscle.
[00:14:53.440 --> 00:14:56.640] You don't wake up and it's like, oh, I put on this new mindset now.
[00:14:56.640 --> 00:15:00.240] So muscle is probably a better word to use, like building the muscle.
[00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:01.520] So talk to us about that.
[00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:03.280] I have another good one.
[00:15:03.600 --> 00:15:10.800] I instead of saying sorry for my delay, like I'm horrible with emails in life right now.
[00:15:10.800 --> 00:15:13.040] Sorry for my delay is like constant.
[00:15:13.360 --> 00:15:16.880] I heard on a podcast, thanks for your patience.
[00:15:16.880 --> 00:15:17.280] Yes.
[00:15:17.280 --> 00:15:18.800] Oh, I love thanks for your patience.
[00:15:18.800 --> 00:15:19.760] Or you know what I love?
[00:15:19.760 --> 00:15:25.600] I love coming back after weeks with without further ado.
[00:15:26.080 --> 00:15:27.360] I love coming back with that.
[00:15:27.680 --> 00:15:28.880] They're looking at me sideways.
[00:15:28.880 --> 00:15:31.360] Like I'm like, hey, guys, without further ado.
[00:15:32.240 --> 00:15:32.560] Right.
[00:15:32.880 --> 00:15:33.520] Yep.
[00:15:33.520 --> 00:15:34.160] Yep.
[00:15:34.160 --> 00:15:35.120] I love that.
[00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:35.680] I love that.
[00:15:41.920 --> 00:15:50.640] Tell us briefly, how did you go from working in Silver Spring now to meeting Tommy and starting Black Love?
[00:15:51.280 --> 00:15:51.760] Yeah.
[00:15:51.760 --> 00:15:54.560] So we, we okay, so the PR firm was here in LA.
[00:15:54.560 --> 00:16:06.600] So, I was working in LA and I, my job was to go to film festivals and try to entice filmmakers to use Canon.
[00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:12.200] And I had the opportunity to gift or lend them cameras for free for their projects.
[00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:17.800] So, we went to Sundance, we went to South by Southwest, we went to other like trade shows.
[00:16:17.800 --> 00:16:21.880] So, the Toronto Film Festival was where I met Tommy.
[00:16:22.520 --> 00:16:29.160] We were activating there with our equipment and all that stuff in a daytime lounge where the filmmakers would come in.
[00:16:29.160 --> 00:16:31.160] And that's where we met.
[00:16:31.160 --> 00:16:33.880] And we started dating very quickly.
[00:16:33.880 --> 00:16:40.840] We got engaged after six months, but even before then, so we met September 9th, 2013.
[00:16:40.840 --> 00:16:45.240] By mid-October, we talked about Black Love, maybe even earlier we met.
[00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:52.440] I was like, I have this idea that I've been thinking about, and I don't know if it's a documentary because at that time, documentaries were not on my radar.
[00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:55.160] Like, I knew that they existed, but I thought they were boring.
[00:16:55.160 --> 00:16:57.240] And like, who does that?
[00:16:57.240 --> 00:16:58.840] And this isn't science.
[00:16:58.840 --> 00:17:03.560] Um, so so I talked to him about it, and he was really excited by it.
[00:17:03.720 --> 00:17:05.960] He was like, Let's do it, like, let's go.
[00:17:06.280 --> 00:17:08.200] And that's how it started.
[00:17:08.200 --> 00:17:16.680] We convinced Camera, uh, Canon to give him a camera loan because he was a filmmaker that we met at Toronto Film Fuzzy Bowl.
[00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:25.240] We convinced Canon to give him a camera loan by January, and we started shooting one year after we met.
[00:17:25.240 --> 00:17:26.520] I love that.
[00:17:26.520 --> 00:17:30.280] So, now you guys just finished your last season.
[00:17:30.600 --> 00:17:37.640] And I mean, if you guys want to hear more about the journey of growing that, you can go back to their Cody's very first episode.
[00:17:37.640 --> 00:17:38.600] I'll link to it.
[00:17:38.600 --> 00:17:44.200] But I'm interested to know now, looking back, you know, Black Love was such an impactful journey, right?
[00:17:44.200 --> 00:17:49.520] It's such a, it's just done so much, showcased so many different stories.
[00:17:49.840 --> 00:17:53.440] We've seen so many couples, some we know, some we don't.
[00:17:53.440 --> 00:17:56.560] What would you tell yourself now, knowing what you know?
[00:17:56.560 --> 00:17:59.440] What would you tell yourself at the beginning of that journey?
[00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:05.520] You know, the beginning was long before I met Tommy.
[00:18:05.840 --> 00:18:18.640] And I don't like the black love journey has been so perfect in a lot of ways because it was something that had been on my heart for a long time.
[00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:20.480] And I didn't know exactly what it was.
[00:18:20.480 --> 00:18:25.040] Like back in 2008, I did not know.
[00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:27.680] I thought it was a coffee table book.
[00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:29.440] And I thought about documentary.
[00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:32.160] Like I definitely thought about it and just ruled it out.
[00:18:33.360 --> 00:18:36.560] But I knew I wanted to create a place where black love stories live.
[00:18:36.560 --> 00:18:42.880] And so at every stage, that has been the central goal.
[00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:50.480] And so when it was a coffee table book and I went and did interviews with couples in Chicago, because my cousin was from there, she was like, I know a lot of couples.
[00:18:50.560 --> 00:18:55.600] We just went and took pictures and did audio interviews in 2008.
[00:18:55.840 --> 00:18:59.600] I don't regret anything about that journey, that time.
[00:18:59.600 --> 00:19:10.320] I, you know, all of it helped me develop the muscle of interviewing couples and what did I want to know and what did they say that then informed my next conversation.
[00:19:10.320 --> 00:19:13.360] And then meeting Tommy and deciding to do it as a documentary.
[00:19:13.360 --> 00:19:20.800] And then a few things changed in the landscape with the OJ doc and making a murderer, which like both of them are very dark.
[00:19:20.800 --> 00:19:24.800] But like the fact is, people were watching series, docu series.
[00:19:24.800 --> 00:19:26.880] And it was like, oh, wait, we can do that.
[00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:32.200] And so the choice to pivot and then it ended up at own, which was always my first choice for it.
[00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:36.840] It being at own and then the reception once it was on air.
[00:19:37.080 --> 00:19:42.920] Like the Black Love specific journey has been really positive, even in its negativity.
[00:19:42.920 --> 00:19:49.240] Even when it wasn't any of those things, it was a doc that we were shooting and we were trying to get grants and people were like, no, right?
[00:19:49.240 --> 00:19:51.320] And people were questioning it.
[00:19:51.320 --> 00:19:55.560] It's still nothing I would change about that journey.
[00:19:55.800 --> 00:19:57.720] Because it also led to us even owning it.
[00:19:57.720 --> 00:20:00.200] I don't know that we would have pursued the ownership.
[00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:06.280] I don't know that we would have kept shooting it ourselves the way that we did so that by the time we pitched it, it was a show.
[00:20:06.280 --> 00:20:08.120] It wasn't just a pitch on a piece of paper.
[00:20:08.120 --> 00:20:12.840] It was a show with a whole first episode cut already.
[00:20:12.840 --> 00:20:15.560] And so that gave us more leverage.
[00:20:15.560 --> 00:20:19.000] When you talk about the ownership piece, that's also really unique as well.
[00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:25.480] Like, how do you end up on own, but then you're self-funded and you own it?
[00:20:25.480 --> 00:20:30.920] Like, tell us a little bit more about what does this all mean, like in a granular sense?
[00:20:30.920 --> 00:20:39.960] Yeah, I mean, for the most part, people will have a great idea and maybe film enough to create a sizzle.
[00:20:39.960 --> 00:20:42.120] And even the sizzle doesn't have to be your show.
[00:20:42.120 --> 00:20:52.120] It doesn't even have to be the exact subject, subject meaning like person, but you want to create like a tone reel, something that somebody can get behind and say, okay, I want to pay for you to make whatever.
[00:20:52.120 --> 00:20:55.720] I want to pay for you to make one episode so we can then decide if we want to do it.
[00:20:55.720 --> 00:21:02.680] Or, hey, I love that and I want to pay for you to create this show, scripted, unscripted, whatever it is.
[00:21:02.680 --> 00:21:06.600] And then they own it because they paid for it.
[00:21:06.600 --> 00:21:07.960] That's what's typical.
[00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:18.240] And even the way we did it, it could be, they could make a case for, like, well, we're now having it distributing it for you, and we're going to pay for future seasons.
[00:21:14.840 --> 00:21:21.920] And we're paying your costs, so we own it now.
[00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:27.920] But that's the difference was that we were like, no, we've already done so much.
[00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:29.520] We've already done the entire first season.
[00:21:29.520 --> 00:21:37.920] At that point, we gave them episode one, a sizzle, a sizzle that represented the whole season and a detailed written treatment.
[00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:41.680] At that point, we gave them that, but we had 50, 60 interviews.
[00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:43.920] We were ready for season two at that point.
[00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:44.320] Wow.
[00:21:44.320 --> 00:21:47.680] So you had filmed complete interviews.
[00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:48.720] Complete it.
[00:21:48.800 --> 00:21:49.680] We had filmed.
[00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:50.640] Yeah, that's the thing.
[00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:54.720] To your point, like people will go in and they'll be like, I got what I need for this sizzle, so I'm out.
[00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:57.440] We've talked to people for hours.
[00:21:57.760 --> 00:21:59.520] So we had all of that content.
[00:21:59.520 --> 00:22:03.920] So you negotiated, of course, the ownership of your intellectual property.
[00:22:03.920 --> 00:22:06.880] Yes, and at a lower fee.
[00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:09.680] Most people aren't willing to do that, right?
[00:22:09.680 --> 00:22:16.560] You want to make your sizzle or write your script or whatever it is and say, here, pay me a whole bunch of money for this.
[00:22:16.560 --> 00:22:19.520] And I'm the creator, but you own it.
[00:22:19.520 --> 00:22:23.920] And in our case, it was like, okay, well, owns looking at us as any network would.
[00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:30.400] And they're like, okay, you can own it, but we're going to pay you less for it because we're not seeing the upside.
[00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:38.400] We're getting, you know, we can buy, we can get ad revenue against it, but we can't put it on our network for 15, 20 years.
[00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:41.280] We can put it on our network for the term that you give us.
[00:22:41.600 --> 00:22:43.040] So that was the difference.
[00:22:43.040 --> 00:22:55.040] And as a result, it meant that the future episodes, future seasons were more valuable to them because they had negotiated a lower license fee to license the show.
[00:22:55.360 --> 00:22:59.440] And in order for them to continue to get it, we would have to renegotiate all the time.
[00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:02.280] So it was just, it was just a different approach.
[00:23:02.280 --> 00:23:02.680] Yeah.
[00:22:59.840 --> 00:23:04.120] Thank you for sharing that with us.
[00:23:04.360 --> 00:23:15.640] So, what do you see happening with the inventory of just awesome seasons, content, all of that rich content if they weren't to you know continue licensing it?
[00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:23.080] Well, the thing about it is that what us licensing it to them rather than them owning it allowed us to license it elsewhere.
[00:23:23.080 --> 00:23:31.640] So it is on Discovery Plus, it's on Hulu, it's on, I think it's on Amazon Rim, as well as own.
[00:23:31.640 --> 00:23:39.960] And we also retained the right to stream it on our Black Love Plus app, which is a free app.
[00:23:39.960 --> 00:23:40.280] Nice.
[00:23:40.520 --> 00:23:46.040] That you can get on your phone, on your TV, your Roku, your Android, whatever you've got.
[00:23:46.040 --> 00:23:57.240] And there's a lot of other shows, as you were mentioning earlier, you know, Couch Conversations, which last season was hosted by Kevin Melissa Fredericks, and the previous season was Tav and Chance Brown and several other shows.
[00:23:57.480 --> 00:24:01.800] Yeah, our podcast network couch conversations for sure.
[00:24:01.800 --> 00:24:02.520] Love that.
[00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:04.760] We have a podcast network as well.
[00:24:04.760 --> 00:24:08.520] And one of our most popular shows is Black Love the Interviews.
[00:24:08.520 --> 00:24:18.360] So where you watch Own or you watch the docuseries and you see a 42-minute episode where any one couple is in there for maximum.
[00:24:18.360 --> 00:24:18.680] Yeah.
[00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:20.040] Eight minutes.
[00:24:20.360 --> 00:24:23.320] Eight minutes maximum per episode.
[00:24:23.320 --> 00:24:31.160] When you listen to Black Love the Interviews, you're listening to an hour of Viola Davis and Julius Tennant or Brian Tamia.
[00:24:31.160 --> 00:24:34.920] Or, you know, you're listening to the entire conversation that we had with them.
[00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:35.800] Yes.
[00:24:35.800 --> 00:24:40.040] Now that I love because, yeah, there are times I'm like, I want more of this couple.
[00:24:40.040 --> 00:24:42.120] Just cut everyone else.
[00:24:42.120 --> 00:24:44.040] I want to use from them.
[00:24:44.040 --> 00:24:45.120] Well, now you got it.
[00:24:44.600 --> 00:24:45.520] You got it.
[00:24:45.600 --> 00:24:48.800] That is always that one that story that you resonate with the most.
[00:24:44.840 --> 00:24:51.200] So, yeah, and that was important to me.
[00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:56.000] Yeah, that was super important to me because I fell in love with the couples.
[00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:03.760] I fell in love with, like, man, I wish we could tell that one story about when they went on their first date and this happened, but you don't have time in a TV show.
[00:25:03.760 --> 00:25:04.400] Yeah.
[00:25:04.400 --> 00:25:07.920] So, it was important to me to be able to share that with people.
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[00:28:00.680 --> 00:28:05.240] I'm also interested, of course, in the financial piece of this.
[00:28:05.240 --> 00:28:07.720] So, how do you fund this again?
[00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:10.920] Is it a thing where you guys are working full-time jobs?
[00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:15.000] Or how are you funding this without giving away ownership, taking on investment?
[00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:15.840] Yeah.
[00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:21.520] So, when we started, we both, I wouldn't say full-time jobs because we were in the film business.
[00:28:21.520 --> 00:28:33.920] So, when we started, we were, Tommy had just produced a movie in 2014 called The Perfect Guy, which was a Sony movie.
[00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:38.000] It was a nice little check for a 30-year-old at the time.
[00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:43.360] And then we produced an indie film, which was not a nice little check, but it was fun.
[00:28:44.560 --> 00:28:48.160] And we did that at the end of 2014.
[00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:52.400] And then I don't remember everything, but you know, we just took jobs, right?
[00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:53.600] Like film-related jobs.
[00:28:53.600 --> 00:28:56.960] So they were, you know, film jobs in a couple months here and there.
[00:28:56.960 --> 00:29:00.480] And that's what took us through.
[00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:01.600] Or Tommy, he's also a writer.
[00:29:01.600 --> 00:29:07.440] So he might write a script that he gets paid for and they maybe pay for rewrites, et cetera, et cetera.
[00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:08.320] All of that was happening.
[00:29:08.320 --> 00:29:12.160] All of that was being cobbled together to create a life.
[00:29:12.160 --> 00:29:12.720] Got it.
[00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:16.800] I didn't even have health insurance when I got pregnant in 2016.
[00:29:16.800 --> 00:29:18.240] I did not have health insurance.
[00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:20.240] Oh, my God.
[00:29:20.240 --> 00:29:20.800] Cody.
[00:29:20.800 --> 00:29:20.960] Yeah.
[00:29:20.960 --> 00:29:21.840] I mean, I got it.
[00:29:21.840 --> 00:29:24.080] I got health insurance once I got pregnant.
[00:29:24.080 --> 00:29:28.240] But going into that, like, that's where we were just like hustling.
[00:29:28.240 --> 00:29:30.880] And you're like, oh, God, we got to, you know.
[00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:31.520] Yes.
[00:29:31.840 --> 00:29:34.640] But I will say, they say babies bring blessings.
[00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:38.000] So in 2016, that's also when we licensed the show to own.
[00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:39.440] Like we were already making it.
[00:29:39.600 --> 00:29:42.240] We licensed it to own by October.
[00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:45.520] I think September was really when the conversation started picking up.
[00:29:45.520 --> 00:29:47.680] He was born on October 4th.
[00:29:47.680 --> 00:29:48.240] Wow.
[00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:51.920] So, you know, went from no health insurance to a whole life show.
[00:29:52.240 --> 00:29:52.800] Yeah.
[00:29:53.120 --> 00:29:54.640] Light at the end of the tunnel.
[00:29:54.640 --> 00:29:55.040] Okay.
[00:29:55.040 --> 00:29:55.520] Yes.
[00:29:55.920 --> 00:29:56.160] Yeah.
[00:29:56.160 --> 00:29:57.840] Isn't there something about that first baby?
[00:29:57.840 --> 00:30:01.800] Like, you might have some, especially as entrepreneurs, that first baby is entrepreneurs.
[00:30:02.040 --> 00:30:03.400] Like, oh, grandpa.
[00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:04.200] Yeah.
[00:29:59.680 --> 00:30:05.240] It's like so scary.
[00:29:59.760 --> 00:30:06.680] Yeah.
[00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:08.920] We can have a whole other.
[00:30:08.920 --> 00:30:12.200] Maybe I need to, you know, we need to have a whole other mama's conversation about that.
[00:30:12.200 --> 00:30:20.040] But I am so glad you mentioned that, though, because is it kind of a blessing to work in the film industry?
[00:30:20.040 --> 00:30:25.640] Because, yeah, usually on the show, we're talking about nine to fives, which are, you know, more of a corporate structure.
[00:30:25.640 --> 00:30:42.040] But then, yeah, when you, it's like a gift and a curse or a benefit and sometimes a hindrance of being able to work in an industry that's so flexible that you could work for a few months, get a, you know, if it's a good job, a bunch of cash, and then not work for a bit to work on your own project, but you have that cash.
[00:30:42.360 --> 00:30:46.280] That's, I would, I don't know that I would compare the two, right?
[00:30:46.280 --> 00:30:53.160] Because there's something about knowing month after month there's a check coming and there's benefits that come with that.
[00:30:53.160 --> 00:31:01.720] And then there's something about, like I said, the perfect guy, the film that he worked on, it was a substantial amount of money for, let's say, three months of work, right?
[00:31:01.720 --> 00:31:05.560] Most people might make that, whatever it was, in a year or something.
[00:31:06.600 --> 00:31:09.880] But in the film business, you don't know when that next job is coming.
[00:31:09.880 --> 00:31:10.440] That's true.
[00:31:10.440 --> 00:31:11.160] That's fair.
[00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:17.560] So it's just, you know, different perspectives and different ways to make a living, so to speak, to make your dream happen.
[00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:24.760] What are you working on now?
[00:31:24.760 --> 00:31:28.280] So you have other creative projects going on.
[00:31:28.280 --> 00:31:29.480] You have a podcast.
[00:31:29.480 --> 00:31:33.400] Tell us a little bit more about that and how that all came to be.
[00:31:33.400 --> 00:31:33.880] Yeah.
[00:31:34.520 --> 00:31:43.800] So, so you know, we have been doing most of the things I'm about to say for years, but obviously, the show, first off, takes a lot of my time and energy.
[00:31:43.800 --> 00:31:51.280] Tommy and I created an intimate environment where it's just the two of us with the couples, so there was no other crew from the beginning.
[00:31:51.440 --> 00:31:56.160] Like, hey, my name's Cody Lane Oliver, and we have this show and we want to interview you.
[00:31:56.160 --> 00:32:00.800] It was always me because we wanted to start an intimate relationship with the couples as early as possible.
[00:32:00.800 --> 00:32:02.880] So, we're not talking about publicists and managers.
[00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:09.200] Sometimes, yes, but we just tried at every step to create a closeness.
[00:32:09.680 --> 00:32:12.400] But that took a lot of time and energy.
[00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:19.760] And so, we have in the process of all of that, we launched the Black Love Summit in 2018, now going into its fifth year.
[00:32:19.760 --> 00:32:23.120] We launched BlackLove.com 2018.
[00:32:23.440 --> 00:32:27.040] Still, like, every time I say that, I'm like, we did those at the same time.
[00:32:28.400 --> 00:32:34.560] I was also having twins in November 2018, and we launched those things in October.
[00:32:35.200 --> 00:32:36.880] Very, very wild to me.
[00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:40.880] Like, you're like a superhero to me.
[00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:44.720] I appreciate it, but I don't know.
[00:32:44.720 --> 00:32:46.160] I don't know how it happens.
[00:32:47.040 --> 00:32:50.080] And so, we've been doing those things for five years.
[00:32:50.080 --> 00:32:52.880] We have year-round events.
[00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:56.080] So, once the pandemic happened, we started doing virtual events as well.
[00:32:56.080 --> 00:33:00.320] We did a women's wellness retreat that we'll bring back in 2023.
[00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:01.360] Oh, wow.
[00:33:01.360 --> 00:33:14.000] And we try to be a part of, man, cultural moments isn't the right way to say it because, like, we try to be a part of giving our community tools and information in the only ways that we know how, right?
[00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:17.600] Through transparency and listening to one another.
[00:33:17.600 --> 00:33:27.920] And so, for instance, during the pandemic, we did a town hall with various doctors all over the country to give people insight on like what are what questions do you have about COVID?
[00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:30.920] Like, this was at a time when we no one really knew what was going on.
[00:33:31.240 --> 00:33:47.000] And we had, you know, ER doctors and like we had people really giving tools and tips and insights and answering direct questions when it felt like we're just reading articles that don't actually pertain to us because you didn't, I didn't get my question answered.
[00:33:48.600 --> 00:33:59.720] We had lives with midwives so that women who were having babies in hospitals and out of hospitals could understand what it means to feel prepared.
[00:34:00.120 --> 00:34:01.560] So those are the things that we do.
[00:34:01.560 --> 00:34:05.720] You know, black maternal health is super important, but to me and to our brand.
[00:34:05.720 --> 00:34:23.240] But the pillars that have always remained important from the beginning, but especially with the launch of blacklove.com, you know, romantic relationships and dating, parenthood, physical and mental health, entrepreneurship, and community.
[00:34:23.240 --> 00:34:25.240] I'm trying to make sure I'm not leaving anything out.
[00:34:25.240 --> 00:34:30.040] So we try to make sure that we're hitting those things every step.
[00:34:30.040 --> 00:34:41.640] And so we launched the streaming service where we have all of these series that we created from a show called Doula Dads to Couch Conversations to all of our summits are there.
[00:34:41.640 --> 00:34:57.160] And we also have a podcast network with several podcasts that range from, if you remember, Kariga and Felicia Bailey, who were on Black Love season five, I want to say, who their first daughter transitioned the day she was born.
[00:34:57.480 --> 00:34:59.400] So they became angel parents.
[00:34:59.400 --> 00:35:04.040] And they have a podcast on our podcast network talking about grief and love.
[00:35:05.560 --> 00:35:10.600] We have another podcast on the network that is a couple who's been together over 30 years.
[00:35:10.600 --> 00:35:21.760] They are life coaches and dating coaches, the amazing Clarks, and they talk about dating and marriage and life and really just thriving from their unique vantage point.
[00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:29.920] And then I am the host of a podcast called My New BFF, where I interview people who basically that I want to get to know.
[00:35:30.720 --> 00:35:34.560] I interview people who like I want to get beyond whatever they're known for.
[00:35:34.560 --> 00:35:39.280] So if they're a singer, like Mickey Guyton, who's a country singer, like what else?
[00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:40.240] Like, how'd you get here?
[00:35:40.240 --> 00:35:41.680] What's your journey?
[00:35:42.240 --> 00:35:46.240] Nina Westbrook, who's a UCLA basketball player.
[00:35:46.240 --> 00:35:47.680] She's married to Russell Westbrook.
[00:35:47.680 --> 00:35:49.440] She's also a marriage and family therapist.
[00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:55.280] Like these are people where I see them on Instagram and I'm like, girl, tell me for real on Instagram.
[00:35:55.680 --> 00:36:01.040] Yeah, like I absolutely love her and I don't know her, but yeah, I would talk to her.
[00:36:01.680 --> 00:36:02.000] Same.
[00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:05.280] I was like, I'm a fan and you have twins and so do I.
[00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:06.560] Can we talk, right?
[00:36:06.560 --> 00:36:07.200] Yes.
[00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:11.680] And then I and then I host the Mama's Den with three other mamas.
[00:36:12.240 --> 00:36:16.240] I've been seeing your awesome content on IG.
[00:36:16.240 --> 00:36:29.600] And how do you, as you're planning out the Black Love platform, how do you decide which ideas to go after so that you are not doing too many things at once?
[00:36:29.600 --> 00:36:30.800] Girl, that's a good question.
[00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:33.040] I don't think we decide that very well at all.
[00:36:33.040 --> 00:36:39.280] I mean, for real, I would say that something we're not great at, right?
[00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:52.000] Like for the first couple of years, while I was editing, like producing, directing, editing the show, Tommy produces, and he's, he's very hands-on in the production phase and then like giving notes on cuts.
[00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:55.200] But like, I'm in the thick of this thing for like eight months at a time.
[00:36:55.240 --> 00:37:03.480] Um, so while we were in that phase, he would very much drive, like, we need a podcast network, we need an app, we need to do this.
[00:37:03.800 --> 00:37:13.720] And, um, and they were always great ideas, and so I would be like, okay, and then we weren't necessarily set up to continue whatever it was, so it would become very stressful.
[00:37:13.720 --> 00:37:19.240] Obviously, we have continued, um, and I'm grateful for it, but it's been very stressful at times.
[00:37:19.240 --> 00:37:25.320] Where that's a conversation now is like, how do I, in particular, not take on too much?
[00:37:25.320 --> 00:37:31.000] Because I do love, so I'm not to blame him, I was just using him as an example because he's very entrepreneurial.
[00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:34.280] His background is economics and business and film.
[00:37:34.280 --> 00:37:38.120] So, he's like running with these big ideas.
[00:37:38.120 --> 00:37:40.760] And then for me, it's like, yeah, I want to do this town hall.
[00:37:40.760 --> 00:37:47.080] And I want to, which I think ended up being the same time as like the you retreat that year or the summit.
[00:37:47.080 --> 00:37:51.080] You know, I want to, I want to, I want to host this podcast.
[00:37:51.080 --> 00:37:52.520] I want to host that podcast.
[00:37:52.520 --> 00:37:54.360] Oh, wait, now we have to continue doing those things.
[00:37:54.360 --> 00:37:57.960] Oh, wait, now we have to get people to sponsor them and buy into them.
[00:37:59.160 --> 00:38:02.440] And so you need a whole behind each thing.
[00:38:02.440 --> 00:38:02.840] Yeah.
[00:38:03.160 --> 00:38:16.120] And then, as you know, like as a mom, your the motherhood journey comes in these phases where you might think briefly for me, you might think, like, oh, we're in a pattern, we're in a routine.
[00:38:16.120 --> 00:38:20.360] I do this, I do that, I drop this, I give that some bath.
[00:38:20.360 --> 00:38:22.200] It's gone, it's gone.
[00:38:22.200 --> 00:38:25.320] And then you look up and I'm like, how did I get here with all these responsibilities?
[00:38:25.400 --> 00:38:27.880] And people looking at me like, so what's next?
[00:38:28.520 --> 00:38:34.040] People from three to 50 are looking at me like, what are we doing?
[00:38:34.040 --> 00:38:35.160] Right, right.
[00:38:35.480 --> 00:38:39.080] It's like, you are the captain of many, many ships.
[00:38:39.080 --> 00:38:48.880] And yeah, let's touch on the motherhood piece for a bit because you guys, we tried to do this interview a couple of times, and we keep having to reschedule either me or Cody.
[00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:56.400] And you know, it's funny, the last time that we rescheduled, I told my assistant, I was like, You know, she has three kids, and she that was it.
[00:38:56.400 --> 00:38:57.840] That's all I needed to say.
[00:38:57.840 --> 00:39:01.440] She was like, I can't even imagine.
[00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:04.240] I have one, and we were like, I don't, I can't even imagine.
[00:39:04.240 --> 00:39:08.720] It's nothing like negative about it, it's just an understanding that you have when you become a mom.
[00:39:08.720 --> 00:39:10.480] Like, stuff comes up, all right?
[00:39:10.480 --> 00:39:14.560] Like, every day you wake up, you literally do not know what is going to happen.
[00:39:14.560 --> 00:39:17.360] You might go into their room, and all of a sudden, they're congested.
[00:39:17.360 --> 00:39:19.360] It's like, where did this come from?
[00:39:19.360 --> 00:39:20.480] Why are you sick?
[00:39:20.480 --> 00:39:22.400] You got to go to school, right?
[00:39:22.720 --> 00:39:23.760] You got to get out of here.
[00:39:23.760 --> 00:39:25.280] I got stuff to do.
[00:39:25.280 --> 00:39:26.160] Oh my God.
[00:39:26.320 --> 00:39:35.120] So, what systems or people have you put into your life to help you so that you can still go after your dreams?
[00:39:35.120 --> 00:39:35.680] Yeah.
[00:39:35.680 --> 00:39:40.960] So, I have a nanny who I love who is like the key to everything.
[00:39:41.440 --> 00:39:43.840] Um, I want, I want her to live with us.
[00:39:43.840 --> 00:39:46.400] Uh, I want her to never leave ever.
[00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:50.240] Listen, I'm just going to plug care.com.
[00:39:50.240 --> 00:39:50.800] Okay.
[00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:51.200] Okay.
[00:39:51.200 --> 00:39:52.720] Uh, they should give you some money.
[00:39:52.720 --> 00:39:54.000] They should give me some money.
[00:39:54.000 --> 00:39:58.800] Um, but I actually have found all of my caregivers on care.com.
[00:39:58.800 --> 00:39:59.520] Oh, wow.
[00:39:59.520 --> 00:39:59.840] Okay.
[00:39:59.840 --> 00:40:01.520] And of course, there's word of mouth too.
[00:40:01.520 --> 00:40:08.800] I would, you know, but all of the long-term folks, or I would say two out of three, two out of three of the long-term people have come from care.com.
[00:40:09.280 --> 00:40:13.760] And, and so, if a lot of people are like, oh, I don't, you know, I'm nervous to meet strangers.
[00:40:14.640 --> 00:40:18.320] I always tell moms, like, you can have somebody come in your house and you're there.
[00:40:18.320 --> 00:40:20.800] Like, nobody's telling you to leave on day one.
[00:40:20.800 --> 00:40:20.960] Right.
[00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:23.680] Be there, watch them, learn them.
[00:40:23.680 --> 00:40:26.800] But, um, yeah, so that's how I we found each other.
[00:40:26.800 --> 00:40:31.800] And funny enough, this is this might be a lesson for like any job interview.
[00:40:29.680 --> 00:40:35.000] She was the first resume this particular year, obviously.
[00:40:35.080 --> 00:40:37.480] Like, she's been working with us for almost two years.
[00:40:37.480 --> 00:40:38.920] So, this was just two years ago.
[00:40:38.920 --> 00:40:41.560] She was the first resume that came through.
[00:40:42.040 --> 00:40:46.920] She was super professional, which, like, it isn't always the case of like nannies and babysitters, right?
[00:40:46.920 --> 00:40:51.720] They're, you know, it's just a different, different, um, I don't know, different mindset.
[00:40:51.720 --> 00:40:53.560] Um, she was super professional.
[00:40:53.560 --> 00:40:56.520] And, and I was like, there's no way it's the first one.
[00:40:56.520 --> 00:40:58.680] Like, there's no, I have to interview more people.
[00:40:59.320 --> 00:41:00.440] Right, right.
[00:41:00.440 --> 00:41:04.760] And Tommy was like, listen, if she's the one, she's the one.
[00:41:05.080 --> 00:41:07.080] And so, no regrets.
[00:41:07.080 --> 00:41:08.520] Best thing that's ever happened.
[00:41:08.760 --> 00:41:09.880] I love to hear that.
[00:41:09.880 --> 00:41:14.200] You're going to make me try Care.com again because, yeah, I wasn't as lucky.
[00:41:14.200 --> 00:41:19.160] And it's just, it can be a little bit.
[00:41:19.160 --> 00:41:21.000] But I've met some before.
[00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:22.120] Like, I mean, I'm going to be honest.
[00:41:22.120 --> 00:41:24.120] I don't, I think it's safe space.
[00:41:24.120 --> 00:41:29.880] I mean, I look for, I care about, you know, brown women and young women.
[00:41:30.440 --> 00:41:31.160] Everybody's different.
[00:41:31.160 --> 00:41:33.400] Some people like a grandmother, a grandmother type.
[00:41:33.400 --> 00:41:36.120] I like somebody who's going to keep up with these kids.
[00:41:36.120 --> 00:41:37.880] No disrespect to the grandmothers.
[00:41:37.880 --> 00:41:41.320] I like somebody who's going to jump around, run around with them.
[00:41:41.320 --> 00:41:44.200] So who's going to feel like a big sister type?
[00:41:44.440 --> 00:41:46.840] That was like my mentality when looking.
[00:41:47.160 --> 00:41:53.560] And so I go in and I look, I weed out based on Melanin.
[00:41:53.560 --> 00:42:02.040] And then I just, I just try to reach out to a bunch of people and do, you know, I've done phone interviews.
[00:42:02.040 --> 00:42:04.680] I've done Zoom interviews, and then in person, and all of that.
[00:42:04.680 --> 00:42:06.200] So it's a process.
[00:42:06.200 --> 00:42:06.840] It's a thing.
[00:42:06.840 --> 00:42:07.000] Yeah.
[00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:08.920] It's hiring for your life.
[00:42:08.920 --> 00:42:14.280] Hiring for your life is something that, you know, we all got to get better about.
[00:42:14.280 --> 00:42:21.840] I talked about that on a solo episode about, you know, how I just really was brought to my attention actually reading Rachel Rogers' book.
[00:42:21.920 --> 00:42:26.880] But yeah, it's like you can't get good at hiring for your business if you aren't yet good at hiring for your life.
[00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:32.000] Because what's more important than who's taking care of your kids and who's going to be in your home doing these different things?
[00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:33.760] Like that's really, really important.
[00:42:33.760 --> 00:42:39.600] So, you know, it's a learning curve and something that we can all stretch our muscle on.
[00:42:39.600 --> 00:42:43.280] And it will actually help us in our side hustles and in our business.
[00:42:43.680 --> 00:42:44.160] Agreed.
[00:42:44.160 --> 00:42:46.640] And then also help us to go after our goals.
[00:42:46.640 --> 00:42:48.400] Because I was listening to an interview.
[00:42:48.400 --> 00:42:51.040] I think it was with Kerry Washington last night.
[00:42:51.040 --> 00:43:01.840] And she just talked about how I forget the quote she said, but she talked about how she saw a quote that, you know, like you don't have to choose between being a mom and being and having this awesome career.
[00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:04.160] And she had put that on her vision board one year.
[00:43:04.160 --> 00:43:12.320] But I was just reminded of how I know so many of us now who we have big dreams, big goals, and we're going after them.
[00:43:12.320 --> 00:43:21.040] It's like it's not one or the other, but we still do have to talk about the sacrifices that come with that and you know the juggling.
[00:43:21.040 --> 00:43:25.760] So what has that been like for you in terms of is it losing sleep?
[00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:29.120] Is it maybe going after less things that you want to go after?
[00:43:29.120 --> 00:43:36.240] Like how have you found adjusting to going after both of those things?
[00:43:37.040 --> 00:43:43.520] I'm going to say, weirdly, there's very little that I don't go after.
[00:43:43.840 --> 00:43:46.960] And I don't even think I'm like that ambitious.
[00:43:46.960 --> 00:43:47.440] Yeah.
[00:43:47.640 --> 00:43:48.800] Um, I really don't.
[00:43:50.400 --> 00:43:52.160] I'm not saying that I'm not.
[00:43:52.160 --> 00:44:00.600] I'm just saying that, like, when something comes my way, when an opportunity comes my way, or when there's something that I want, I'll start to plant the.
[00:44:00.600 --> 00:44:03.240] So, if there's something I want, I'll plant the seeds, right?
[00:43:59.840 --> 00:44:05.800] If there's something that comes my way, and I'm like, man, I want to do that.
[00:44:06.120 --> 00:44:15.960] Um, or maybe what it is, is right now my life is set up in a way that I can do that, partially because of Erica is her name.
[00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:23.160] And so, I, but I understand what it has been like when I didn't have that same flexibility, right?
[00:44:23.640 --> 00:44:38.840] And, and so, I heard a quote last year that is, you can have it all, but you can't do it all, and that really stuck with me because I, I, I, I do believe in that, even if I didn't have the words for it until I heard this quote.
[00:44:38.840 --> 00:44:54.520] Um, but the lesson is like you gotta figure out how to outsource to people, um, whether that is housekeeping, nanny, gardener, even HR for your business, um, whether that is paying someone, right?
[00:44:54.520 --> 00:45:04.600] We're talking about side hustles, whether that is paying someone to build that website that you don't really know how to build, but you're trying because you learned on the Kayla's podcast that it's easy to learn in sparespace.
[00:45:04.600 --> 00:45:07.240] For some of us, it's not easy, you know what I mean?
[00:45:07.560 --> 00:45:18.040] But the point is, like, don't beat yourself up over it if you know that, like, spending this little bit of money to get that thing done is going to make your life easier and better and move faster.
[00:45:18.040 --> 00:45:22.680] Those are the like things that we have to think through.
[00:45:22.680 --> 00:45:23.960] How will this help me?
[00:45:23.960 --> 00:45:26.360] Is this the right investment for me?
[00:45:26.360 --> 00:45:50.560] Um, in order to have the life we want, what we spend our money on, like those early investments, it is it not only does it pay off, but also it starts to train us to invest in our business, like a real investor, like to really look at what we're spending and say, all right, I would rather put this $100 towards hiring someone on Fiverr to do this thing for me, you know.
[00:45:50.880 --> 00:45:55.600] And, but we just got to remember to not also spend another hundred on Amazon.
[00:45:55.600 --> 00:45:58.960] Like, we have to shift the allocation.
[00:45:58.960 --> 00:46:01.600] It's like knowing that the decision matters, right?
[00:46:01.600 --> 00:46:08.640] It doesn't mean feel guilty because you bought the shoes or the whatever, but it means that if you was looking at the shoes, you like, dang, I could have, I could have done this.
[00:46:08.640 --> 00:46:12.880] And then, and I wouldn't be stressed right now trying to build this website at two in the morning.
[00:46:12.880 --> 00:46:13.440] You know what I mean?
[00:46:13.680 --> 00:46:17.360] Just having this clear picture of like, yeah, what needs to happen.
[00:46:17.600 --> 00:46:19.440] What the choices that you make mean.
[00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:20.000] Yeah.
[00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:20.880] Right.
[00:46:25.360 --> 00:46:34.640] Before we get into the lightning round, another thing you said I really wanted to touch on, which is this idea of always being asked what's next, right?
[00:46:34.640 --> 00:46:35.920] And I used to do that.
[00:46:35.920 --> 00:46:43.040] And I've really, you know, stopped and tried to remember not to in the last few years because nothing needs to be next.
[00:46:43.040 --> 00:46:52.640] And I say that in terms of, you know, let me know how you feel about this, but in your career thus far, a lot of things that you've done and what you're currently doing, you could have never pictured.
[00:46:52.640 --> 00:47:01.200] So if you try to tell people what's next, like that, it's not even going to be what's next because what's next, you can't, you probably can't even visualize right now.
[00:47:01.200 --> 00:47:02.080] You know what I mean?
[00:47:02.080 --> 00:47:08.400] Like if you're truly working towards this life that you're going to be leading.
[00:47:08.400 --> 00:47:12.240] So I want to just affirm you in that and say, like, I believe in you.
[00:47:12.240 --> 00:47:23.760] I believe that you're, you're walking already in your calling, and that, you know, no matter what you do, like individually, it might look like, oh, it's just this or, or oh, it's just that, but it's actually way bigger than that.
[00:47:24.080 --> 00:47:35.240] As a fellow podcaster, you know, who still struggles with, oh, I have a podcast, like, how that still sounds so like, you know, but it's bigger than that.
[00:47:35.560 --> 00:47:37.960] You were the original podcaster, okay?
[00:47:38.920 --> 00:47:45.560] You have helped a lot of people with this, with this podcast, like tremendously.
[00:47:45.560 --> 00:47:53.560] And I, and I have seen it, but also just knowing it in the early, well, I was gonna say the early stage, like when we did that interview, I think you were still 100%.
[00:47:53.800 --> 00:47:55.000] It was the early stage.
[00:47:55.000 --> 00:47:58.280] Yeah, you were still deep.
[00:47:58.680 --> 00:48:00.760] You know, you got to scroll all the way back.
[00:48:00.760 --> 00:48:01.400] Yep.
[00:48:01.720 --> 00:48:02.600] So thank you.
[00:48:02.600 --> 00:48:04.280] Thank you for that.
[00:48:06.840 --> 00:48:09.720] So now we're going to jump into a quick lightning round.
[00:48:09.720 --> 00:48:11.720] Just answer the first thing that comes to mind.
[00:48:12.200 --> 00:48:13.800] No Google, no celebrities.
[00:48:13.800 --> 00:48:14.600] All right.
[00:48:14.600 --> 00:48:15.000] Okay.
[00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:15.400] Okay.
[00:48:15.720 --> 00:48:16.280] All right.
[00:48:16.280 --> 00:48:24.200] So number one, what is a resource that has helped you in your business that you can share with a sidehouse or pro audience?
[00:48:24.200 --> 00:48:25.960] Like I said, no Google.
[00:48:26.600 --> 00:48:28.120] My assistant.
[00:48:30.120 --> 00:48:32.040] And how did you find your assistant?
[00:48:32.040 --> 00:48:32.840] Oh, good question.
[00:48:32.840 --> 00:48:33.880] Word of mouth.
[00:48:33.880 --> 00:48:39.640] Number two, who is a black woman entrepreneur that you would switch places with for a day, non-celebrity?
[00:48:39.640 --> 00:48:40.520] And why?
[00:48:40.840 --> 00:48:41.960] For a day.
[00:48:41.960 --> 00:48:42.840] Morgan.
[00:48:43.160 --> 00:48:44.600] Morgan DeBond.
[00:48:44.920 --> 00:48:45.640] Yeah.
[00:48:45.960 --> 00:48:47.240] And why?
[00:48:48.360 --> 00:48:59.160] Because of what she's built, because she has, you know, I did not come into this thing with anybody's business degree or MBA.
[00:48:59.160 --> 00:49:11.880] And so to sort of step into her world where she has this purview that I don't would be fascinating and empowering.
[00:49:11.880 --> 00:49:15.600] Number three, what's a non-negotiable part of your day?
[00:49:15.600 --> 00:49:17.040] Coffee.
[00:49:19.200 --> 00:49:25.280] Number four, what is a personal habit about you that you think contributes to your success?
[00:49:25.280 --> 00:49:31.280] I'm going to say my like friendliness, like my like engagement with people.
[00:49:31.600 --> 00:49:43.200] And then finally, number five, tell us what is your parting advice these days for fellow women side hustlers who want to be their own boss but are scared to lose a study paycheck.
[00:49:44.080 --> 00:49:45.760] I was scared too.
[00:49:46.080 --> 00:49:48.480] Wait, but that's not advice.
[00:49:50.240 --> 00:49:56.400] It's okay to be afraid, but if you know that this is what you're supposed to be doing, you have to give it a shot.
[00:49:56.400 --> 00:49:57.280] Love that.
[00:49:57.280 --> 00:49:58.560] Love that.
[00:49:58.560 --> 00:50:01.600] And with that, you know, thank you so much for being in the guest chair.
[00:50:01.600 --> 00:50:08.320] Where can people connect with you and all of your many projects after this episode?
[00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:12.320] I would say Instagram is great.
[00:50:12.320 --> 00:50:15.120] I am Cody Co, C-O-D-I-E-C-O.
[00:50:15.600 --> 00:50:19.120] I don't do enough sharing about my business stuff on Cody Co.
[00:50:19.200 --> 00:50:22.480] So go to Black Love at Black Love, which is our Instagram.
[00:50:22.480 --> 00:50:24.800] Our website is blacklove.com.
[00:50:25.920 --> 00:50:26.560] It is me.
[00:50:26.560 --> 00:50:28.480] It is a part of my being.
[00:50:28.720 --> 00:50:30.480] Everything that we put out over there.
[00:50:30.480 --> 00:50:34.320] So I would say those are the best places to find me.
[00:50:34.640 --> 00:50:37.280] And we will link to those in the show notes, you guys.
[00:50:37.280 --> 00:50:39.280] And with that, there you have it.
[00:50:40.880 --> 00:50:43.920] Hey guys, thanks for listening to Side Hustle Pro.
[00:50:43.920 --> 00:50:48.640] If you like the show, be sure to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts.
[00:50:48.640 --> 00:50:52.400] It helps other side hustlers just like you to find the show.
[00:50:52.400 --> 00:50:56.960] And if you want to hear more from me, you can follow me on Instagram at Side Hustle Pro.
[00:50:56.960 --> 00:51:03.800] Plus, sign up for my six-foot Saturday newsletter at sidehustlepro.co/slash newsletter.
[00:51:04.120 --> 00:51:11.480] When you sign up, you will receive weekly nuggets from me, including what I'm up to, personal lessons, and my business tip of the week.
[00:51:11.480 --> 00:51:16.200] Again, that's sidehustlepro.co/slash newsletter to sign up.
[00:51:16.200 --> 00:51:17.720] Talk to you soon.
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