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[00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:09.360] Did you know that many of your financial habits and behaviors are formed by the age of seven?
[00:01:09.680 --> 00:01:11.360] No, not yet.
[00:01:12.640 --> 00:01:21.360] You're listening to Side Hustle Pro, the podcast that teaches you to build and grow your side hustle from passion project to profitable business.
[00:01:21.360 --> 00:01:24.320] And I'm your host, Nikayla Matthews Okome.
[00:01:24.320 --> 00:01:26.160] So let's get started.
[00:01:28.080 --> 00:01:28.720] Hey, friends.
[00:01:28.720 --> 00:01:29.360] Hey, welcome.
[00:01:29.360 --> 00:01:30.320] Welcome back to the show.
[00:01:30.320 --> 00:01:38.000] It's Nikayla here, and today in the guest chair, I have a special student spotlight with my podcast mogul student, Marina Batliwala.
[00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:45.360] Marina is a financial professional who was born in India, raised and educated in Australia, and is currently based in LA.
[00:01:45.360 --> 00:01:55.600] And she's the producer and host of the Banking on Girls podcast, which highlights the importance of financial literacy for girls and women through life stories and interviews.
[00:01:55.600 --> 00:02:04.840] She attended the United Nations Commission on the Status of Women in New York as a delegate in 2024 and 2025, all because of her podcast.
[00:02:05.160 --> 00:02:17.640] And she's an alumni of the Cherie Blair Foundation for Women, Mentoring Women in Business Program, and a former broadcaster on Radio 2098.5 FM, Sydney's first multicultural community radio station.
[00:02:17.640 --> 00:02:28.680] In today's episode, you will hear all about Marina's journey, how she overcame her own limiting beliefs and thoughts that could have held her back, but overcame them to launch her show.
[00:02:28.680 --> 00:02:37.000] And now it has opened up a world of opportunities for her outside of work, even though she still works full-time and it is her side hustle.
[00:02:37.000 --> 00:02:38.360] So let's get right into it.
[00:02:38.360 --> 00:02:40.280] I can't wait for you to hear it.
[00:02:43.160 --> 00:02:47.320] All right, all right, Marina, welcome, welcome to the guest chair.
[00:02:47.320 --> 00:02:48.520] Thank you so much, Nikayla.
[00:02:48.520 --> 00:02:50.120] I'm so happy to be here.
[00:02:50.440 --> 00:02:52.600] You know, I'm so happy to have you here.
[00:02:52.600 --> 00:03:04.200] If you can't tell already by the pre-show convo and my big smile, you guys, Marina is a member of my podcast, Mogul's Group Coaching Program, as I mentioned in her bio.
[00:03:04.200 --> 00:03:14.520] And it has just been truly a pleasure and an honor to work with you, to learn more about the mission of your show and just to help you grow it and grow the impact of your platform.
[00:03:14.520 --> 00:03:17.960] So I am really, really looking forward to this conversation.
[00:03:17.960 --> 00:03:19.800] So let's jump right into it.
[00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:23.160] First of all, you were born in India, right?
[00:03:23.160 --> 00:03:27.720] Raised and educated in Australia, now based in LA.
[00:03:28.040 --> 00:03:32.920] Tell us about that whole journey and how that journey came to be.
[00:03:32.920 --> 00:03:33.400] Sure.
[00:03:33.400 --> 00:03:38.520] And I think when you say it like that, it makes me feel like a citizen of the world because you are.
[00:03:39.640 --> 00:03:40.200] Yeah.
[00:03:40.680 --> 00:03:41.080] Yeah.
[00:03:41.320 --> 00:03:44.600] So I moved from India to Australia when I was just two years old.
[00:03:44.600 --> 00:03:47.120] My parents left for my father's job.
[00:03:48.160 --> 00:03:53.600] He had a job as an actuary, and I can go into that, what that is in a little bit.
[00:03:53.600 --> 00:03:54.160] Yes.
[00:03:54.640 --> 00:03:57.200] But there were very few actuaries in Australia.
[00:03:57.200 --> 00:03:59.440] And he had studied in London.
[00:03:59.440 --> 00:04:07.280] And some colleagues had come to India and asked him if he would consider moving to Australia with a little baby.
[00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:10.720] And so that's how I ended up in Australia where I grew up.
[00:04:10.720 --> 00:04:15.120] I went to school, I went to college, and I even started working.
[00:04:15.120 --> 00:04:18.320] And then I met my husband who grew up in LA.
[00:04:18.320 --> 00:04:19.760] And that's when I moved to LA.
[00:04:19.760 --> 00:04:21.760] And I've been here ever since.
[00:04:21.760 --> 00:04:23.280] It's crazy.
[00:04:23.520 --> 00:04:24.560] Why were you in LA before?
[00:04:24.800 --> 00:04:25.840] I was on a holiday.
[00:04:25.840 --> 00:04:30.000] On a holiday, I'd taken five weeks off work to travel around the States.
[00:04:30.400 --> 00:04:32.080] That is so cool.
[00:04:32.080 --> 00:04:33.920] And so you fell in love.
[00:04:33.920 --> 00:04:37.200] And was it a long-distance relationship for a while or you just moved?
[00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:38.800] It was a long time, a long time.
[00:04:38.800 --> 00:04:40.320] It was three years before I moved.
[00:04:40.320 --> 00:04:43.040] It's hard to move from a city like Sydney.
[00:04:43.040 --> 00:04:43.680] So.
[00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:45.440] So now you moved to LA.
[00:04:45.440 --> 00:04:51.200] And at that point, were you trying to follow in your dad's footsteps and be an actuary yourself?
[00:04:51.200 --> 00:04:53.120] So I had become an actuary.
[00:04:53.120 --> 00:04:56.800] And just for those listening, not everyone has really heard of what an actuary is.
[00:04:56.800 --> 00:05:07.680] And an actuary is a financial professional that specializes in risk and the valuation of future probabilities, most often pertaining to insurance and pension plans.
[00:05:07.680 --> 00:05:09.120] So that was my background.
[00:05:09.120 --> 00:05:14.240] But I had very early on established an interest in the investment area.
[00:05:14.240 --> 00:05:19.200] So I was working in investments, and that's what I continued to do when I came to the States.
[00:05:19.200 --> 00:05:20.800] That's so unique of a path.
[00:05:20.800 --> 00:05:21.200] You're right.
[00:05:21.200 --> 00:05:24.960] Not everyone has heard of an actuary, especially at such a young age.
[00:05:24.960 --> 00:05:31.800] I remember distinctly the first time I heard about it was in college because there was just this classmate of mine who was just obsessed with becoming one.
[00:05:31.960 --> 00:05:36.920] And I'm like, how do you have such a very specific job in mind?
[00:05:36.920 --> 00:05:38.840] Like that I've never heard of, right?
[00:05:38.840 --> 00:05:47.400] So for you to be exposed to that at such a young age and exposed to these financial concepts at such a young age is just amazing.
[00:05:47.560 --> 00:05:50.360] What a tremendous advantage, right?
[00:05:50.680 --> 00:05:55.400] Did you actually like the topic or were you kind of just following footsteps?
[00:05:55.400 --> 00:05:57.880] Do you feel like it was a real interest?
[00:05:58.200 --> 00:06:01.240] I would say it was not a real interest.
[00:06:01.400 --> 00:06:08.280] I was following to some extent in footsteps, but I knew it was something fantastic that would give me a lot of opportunities.
[00:06:08.280 --> 00:06:12.600] And there are four main tracks, and one of those tracks is investments.
[00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:14.920] And that I learned to love.
[00:06:14.920 --> 00:06:18.120] So in that respect, I found my way through that.
[00:06:18.440 --> 00:06:19.880] There are a lot of exams.
[00:06:20.200 --> 00:06:27.800] It took me many, many years, probably more than most people to qualify, probably close to 10 years by the time I'd finished my college and everything.
[00:06:28.200 --> 00:06:31.080] So yeah, you have to be quite dedicated.
[00:06:31.240 --> 00:06:32.280] Lots of opportunity.
[00:06:32.600 --> 00:06:38.200] Anyone listening who wants to become an actuary, highly recommend you look further into it.
[00:06:38.200 --> 00:06:48.120] So then, you know, further in your career, it feels like you started developing this urge to not only do, but also use your voice to educate.
[00:06:48.120 --> 00:06:50.760] When did you start to feel that calling?
[00:06:50.760 --> 00:06:52.680] Yes, that was much later.
[00:06:52.680 --> 00:06:56.120] So I now fortunately have three kids of my own.
[00:06:56.440 --> 00:06:58.840] They're all in high school and college now.
[00:06:59.080 --> 00:07:07.080] But a few years ago, I was teaching my daughter's scout troupe this merit badge called personal management.
[00:07:07.080 --> 00:07:13.800] And personal management is essentially personal financial planning plus personal time planning.
[00:07:13.800 --> 00:07:15.000] So a combination of the two.
[00:07:15.600 --> 00:07:16.800] And I had a lot of fun.
[00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:19.760] And these kids were like 12 to 14 years old.
[00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:22.640] And it was amazing how quickly they picked up these concepts.
[00:07:22.640 --> 00:07:24.960] And these were some fairly sophisticated concepts.
[00:07:24.960 --> 00:07:33.520] So we were teaching them like compound interest, which most kids learn in school, with application of that, what it means to their future wealth building.
[00:07:33.760 --> 00:07:42.000] I actually played a game called the Stock Market Game, which is a real live online trading program with $100,000 notional portfolio.
[00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:45.600] And they picked that up and it was lots of fun.
[00:07:45.600 --> 00:07:52.720] But what happened was that their mothers started coming to me and saying, Hey, we wish we knew this stuff.
[00:07:52.720 --> 00:07:53.680] I'm like, really?
[00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:56.960] And it seemed like I was teaching fairly basic concepts.
[00:07:56.960 --> 00:08:09.680] And then I realized that we really have a major problem when it comes to women and their confidence in being able to navigate their own finances, however much at a basic level.
[00:08:10.320 --> 00:08:14.960] And so that's when it struck me and I started to research the topic.
[00:08:14.960 --> 00:08:17.840] After you started to research, then what did you do?
[00:08:17.840 --> 00:08:20.160] Like, where did you want it to go from there?
[00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:23.600] So then it was right in the middle of the pandemic.
[00:08:23.600 --> 00:08:26.240] And I had had some experience with broadcasting.
[00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:32.880] So in Sydney, where I grew up, I had my own radio show for about four years on a community radio station.
[00:08:32.880 --> 00:08:35.440] It was Sydney's first multicultural community station.
[00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:42.480] So I had actually learned to be in a broadcasting studio to speak and to record and all those kind of things.
[00:08:42.480 --> 00:08:43.280] And I loved it.
[00:08:43.280 --> 00:08:44.160] I absolutely loved it.
[00:08:44.160 --> 00:08:48.160] But after I'd come to the States, I hadn't explored that to any extent.
[00:08:48.160 --> 00:08:51.680] And then I suddenly heard about this thing called podcast.
[00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:56.560] And I thought, wow, I could actually have my own radio station.
[00:08:56.560 --> 00:08:58.680] That's pretty much what it is.
[00:09:00.840 --> 00:09:02.040] I relate to you on that.
[00:08:58.080 --> 00:09:04.520] I remember like, this is like the TV show I've always wanted.
[00:09:04.680 --> 00:09:07.560] Or when I was younger, I wanted to be on.
[00:09:08.840 --> 00:09:09.640] Right.
[00:09:09.640 --> 00:09:16.840] So, and then I heard you speaking on another podcast, and I learned that you were offering a course.
[00:09:16.840 --> 00:09:21.480] And from that, I realized it wasn't exactly one-to-one with broadcasting.
[00:09:21.480 --> 00:09:25.720] I had to learn quite a bit more, although your skills were very helpful.
[00:09:25.720 --> 00:09:27.080] So that's what happened.
[00:09:27.080 --> 00:09:33.000] And then I thought, well, I can, I really wanted women to hear other women talking about money and finance.
[00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:43.160] So it was just a very natural thing to do because I also got to learn that many families don't talk about money and finance.
[00:09:43.160 --> 00:09:47.240] And that is such a handicap if you grow up that way.
[00:09:47.240 --> 00:09:48.440] Absolutely.
[00:09:48.440 --> 00:09:52.440] I'm so glad that you decided to start your show.
[00:09:52.440 --> 00:10:09.480] But for many people who have a desire just to educate people more about something they know about that they feel like other people should know about or just talk about something that they feel should be talked about, they have that inkling, yet they don't actually start.
[00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:11.480] What do you think made you start?
[00:10:11.480 --> 00:10:16.040] Even though you have this esteemed career, you're busy with three kids.
[00:10:16.040 --> 00:10:17.480] What made you actually start?
[00:10:17.800 --> 00:10:21.320] You know, I think it's just the urge to create something.
[00:10:21.320 --> 00:10:23.160] I think that is just innate.
[00:10:23.160 --> 00:10:28.600] And I think a lot of people have that, but they just don't feel powerful enough to enact on it.
[00:10:28.600 --> 00:10:30.120] And it took me a long time.
[00:10:30.920 --> 00:10:35.800] I keep laughing and I tell people, and I recommend your course to everyone who asks me about podcasting.
[00:10:35.800 --> 00:10:40.200] But I mean, it's an eight-week course, Nikayla, and you ostensibly say you can launch it in eight weeks.
[00:10:40.200 --> 00:10:41.880] And it took me a year and a half.
[00:10:41.880 --> 00:10:49.920] And it was all because of my courage just to get, it wasn't, it wasn't like taking this, the steps are eight weeks worth of steps.
[00:10:50.320 --> 00:10:53.840] So I think getting out of your own way, getting out of your head.
[00:10:53.840 --> 00:10:54.640] Yeah.
[00:10:54.640 --> 00:10:55.200] So.
[00:10:55.200 --> 00:10:59.360] And that is the biggest hurdle that I find that people need to overcome.
[00:10:59.360 --> 00:11:05.040] I can, I can show you everything, but I can't help you get out your head.
[00:11:05.040 --> 00:11:05.680] Right.
[00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:12.960] Like, I'm trying and, you know, researching as many methods as I can to help people get over that mental hurdle.
[00:11:12.960 --> 00:11:15.840] But well, I think you sort of have.
[00:11:15.840 --> 00:11:17.680] And I think you touch on a lot of great points.
[00:11:17.680 --> 00:11:23.040] And something that really resonated with me was, you know, done is better than perfect.
[00:11:23.040 --> 00:11:33.520] And then I read maybe, maybe from your work or somewhere else, that there are on people's hard drives, there are like millions or hundreds of thousands of episodes that have been recorded and not released.
[00:11:33.520 --> 00:11:35.760] And that's just terrible.
[00:11:36.640 --> 00:11:42.240] So people like look at it to edit it and they're just like, I'm just going to, this whole thing is horrible.
[00:11:42.640 --> 00:11:43.120] Yeah.
[00:11:43.440 --> 00:11:44.400] It is scary.
[00:11:44.400 --> 00:11:54.160] So I think knowing that there's nothing to fear about fear itself, really, because really, it's all in your own mind how people are going to react.
[00:11:54.160 --> 00:11:58.640] And more often than not, they're actually going to react very favorably with all the flaws.
[00:11:58.640 --> 00:12:03.120] I mean, when you listen to your, no one likes to listen to their own voice, all those things.
[00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:04.400] But people aren't looking for that.
[00:12:04.400 --> 00:12:06.880] They're looking for ideas, inspiration.
[00:12:06.880 --> 00:12:09.520] And it's not about you in a way, really.
[00:12:09.520 --> 00:12:10.400] It's everything.
[00:12:10.400 --> 00:12:13.280] Like you literally, these are all the things we talk about, right?
[00:12:13.280 --> 00:12:17.520] Like we, we, when you join podcast moguls, like it started as a course.
[00:12:17.520 --> 00:12:22.080] Now it's, I position it more as a group coaching membership.
[00:12:22.080 --> 00:12:33.240] You know, you have the course, which are like your on-demand skills, but because we spend so much time together in our monthly calls, and I never turn anyone away once you join, you have lifetime access.
[00:12:29.840 --> 00:12:36.680] It's more about, you know, it's almost like we do have a therapy session.
[00:12:36.840 --> 00:12:43.480] We have, we talk about practical things, but it's also that check-in affirmation of like, you are enough.
[00:12:43.480 --> 00:12:44.840] This is bigger than you.
[00:12:44.840 --> 00:12:49.160] Whatever you've been called to podcast about, it's actually something you need to do.
[00:12:49.160 --> 00:12:51.000] So it's not about you anymore.
[00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:53.560] So you just need to get to doing it.
[00:12:53.560 --> 00:12:57.480] And then, yeah, three, it's like, no one cares.
[00:12:57.480 --> 00:12:59.560] No one cares what your setup is.
[00:12:59.560 --> 00:13:02.200] They're tuning in to hear the message.
[00:13:02.200 --> 00:13:03.800] They're tuning into the conversation.
[00:13:03.800 --> 00:13:09.080] If the conversation is good, if the information is good, that is what they're going to take away.
[00:13:09.080 --> 00:13:14.520] Not like, oh, that you said 25 ums or we heard your cat in the background.
[00:13:14.840 --> 00:13:23.720] You know, like that's not what they're going to take away from it if they're truly engaged in the conversation and the information.
[00:13:23.720 --> 00:13:24.280] Exactly.
[00:13:24.280 --> 00:13:28.040] And I really do appreciate the aspect of community.
[00:13:28.360 --> 00:13:33.240] As you know, I try to join in whenever I can, even now, after a few years.
[00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:38.200] And I still, I mean, there's still so many questions that can be answered by you and the community.
[00:13:38.200 --> 00:13:42.120] So that is a very valuable aspect of what you're doing.
[00:13:48.840 --> 00:13:51.720] So let's talk a little bit more too about your process.
[00:13:51.720 --> 00:13:54.680] Now, your show is called Banking on Girls.
[00:13:54.680 --> 00:13:57.960] Was that the original title, or what made you want to title it?
[00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:00.440] No, it was not.
[00:14:00.760 --> 00:14:05.240] I had another title, which that itself took me a year to like settle on.
[00:14:05.560 --> 00:14:08.760] And I applied for a trademark.
[00:14:09.080 --> 00:14:16.320] And there's a 90-day period after the trademark is sort of put out into the world where people can object.
[00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:20.560] And a large financial firm on the last day objected.
[00:14:22.160 --> 00:14:23.120] Yes.
[00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:23.600] Yes.
[00:14:24.800 --> 00:14:26.960] It was like they waited for us.
[00:14:27.280 --> 00:14:30.800] And it was because they had one similar word.
[00:14:31.680 --> 00:14:38.880] But as my attorney said, like, I'm not going to spend my time fighting a large financial firm, not necessary.
[00:14:38.880 --> 00:14:43.040] And it turned out to be the best thing ever because then I had to think again.
[00:14:43.040 --> 00:14:46.960] And honestly, this title is way better than what I had before.
[00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:52.720] What made you want to, like, during your journey, join Podcast Mogul specifically?
[00:14:52.720 --> 00:14:57.840] Yeah, I think I realized I needed to, I needed to learn more.
[00:14:58.160 --> 00:15:01.680] I realized I didn't really understand podcasting.
[00:15:01.680 --> 00:15:04.880] I'd never listened to one until I heard the one that you were on, I don't think.
[00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:06.400] So I hadn't joined that.
[00:15:06.400 --> 00:15:09.360] I hadn't joined that sort of movement.
[00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:11.280] And I found that all fascinating.
[00:15:11.760 --> 00:15:19.200] So, and I wanted to build something for myself outside, you know, what I had built in my regular career.
[00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:20.000] Of course.
[00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:22.160] It is nice to have something for yourself, isn't it?
[00:15:22.160 --> 00:15:24.320] Just like, this is something really nice.
[00:15:24.560 --> 00:15:25.520] Yeah, it's mine.
[00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:30.240] So you named it Banking on Girls.
[00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:30.800] I did.
[00:15:30.800 --> 00:15:36.080] And I remember one of the things when you joined that we talked about a lot was the whole audience piece.
[00:15:36.080 --> 00:15:39.280] Because you know, that's something we spend a lot of time on as well.
[00:15:39.280 --> 00:15:47.760] Like you're a perfect listener, truly understanding who you're talking to and not making it this broad, like women interested in learning financial concepts.
[00:15:47.760 --> 00:15:50.240] Like, okay, what kind of woman?
[00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:51.680] What's her name?
[00:15:51.680 --> 00:15:53.920] But then also the girls' piece, right?
[00:15:53.920 --> 00:16:00.680] So it's like you have information for girls, but then people tend to listen to podcasts generationally.
[00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:07.720] So if you're outside of the generation that you're targeting, you have to really think about, is this really my target?
[00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:09.320] So what was that process?
[00:16:09.320 --> 00:16:09.880] Yes.
[00:16:09.880 --> 00:16:20.600] So that is one very valuable aspect of the work you did with us is zoning in on your perfect listener, which was not a concept I understood from broadcasting.
[00:16:20.600 --> 00:16:25.480] And one thing I remember very clearly, you said that this is narrow casting, not broadcasting.
[00:16:25.480 --> 00:16:29.400] And then I realized that I need to approach this whole thing completely differently.
[00:16:29.720 --> 00:16:39.320] So I did what you said to do, which was to interview like 10 friends and figure out like what their concerns are around the topic and that kind of thing.
[00:16:39.320 --> 00:16:42.600] And then I realized that my perfect listener is really a mother.
[00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:45.320] It's a mother of someone raising girls.
[00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:56.600] And of course, everything we say applies to fathers and boys, but the financial literacy market is very prevalent, and there's a lot of financial literacy information out there.
[00:16:56.600 --> 00:17:01.080] But there really isn't anything that hones in, particularly on mothers and daughters.
[00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:05.640] So that seemed like a really good way to narrow down the perfect listener.
[00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:06.280] I love that.
[00:17:06.280 --> 00:17:20.440] I love that so much because if you're thinking about historically how a lot of women have been brainwashed into feeling less confident around money, and then you think about these women having children, and we don't want that to be passed down.
[00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:23.480] So we have to intercede in that relationship.
[00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:30.040] We have to really get in there and give the mom confidence, but also give the daughter that confidence from the start.
[00:17:30.040 --> 00:17:31.640] So you hit the nail on the head.
[00:17:31.640 --> 00:17:35.400] So there is a, I'm sure you're aware, there's there's a gender wealth gap.
[00:17:35.400 --> 00:17:38.520] That gender wealth gap is about 25% worldwide.
[00:17:38.520 --> 00:17:40.720] It's in just about every country in the world.
[00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:42.520] It doesn't matter which country.
[00:17:43.080 --> 00:17:56.160] It varies by level though, which means essentially the 75%, 25% gap means that women after a lifetime of working accumulate only about 75% that men do.
[00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:59.120] And there are many reasons for that, many, many reasons.
[00:17:59.520 --> 00:18:15.280] One is the structure of retirement programs around the world, how they're structured, unequal career trajectories between men and women because women often take breaks to be caregivers for both older and younger people in their lives.
[00:18:15.760 --> 00:18:17.840] You know about the gender pay gap that exists.
[00:18:17.840 --> 00:18:23.120] So then you're saving, you're saving smaller amounts every month just because of that.
[00:18:23.360 --> 00:18:25.360] And then there's longevity risk.
[00:18:25.360 --> 00:18:27.680] Women live longer, so they need more money.
[00:18:27.680 --> 00:18:34.320] But what I zeroed in was they have lower financial literacy and they also have lower confidence.
[00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:39.520] So that's the piece I'm trying to help solve.
[00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:44.080] And your work is so necessary, so vital.
[00:18:44.080 --> 00:19:02.480] And as you were listening, all those things, I just remember seeing a guy friend of mine, friend, acquaintance, classmate that went to the same college as me post one time that, you know, people talk about the gender pay gap, but it's not really accurate because women take time off to have babies.
[00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:05.440] And if you're out of the workforce, of course, you'll be earning less.
[00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:10.720] And it was just a whole bunch of garbage that I'm like, is this how you've rationalized it in your mind?
[00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:13.600] So like, and this is a man who has a wife with multiple kids.
[00:19:13.600 --> 00:19:19.840] So it's like, so it's like we were taking vacation or something, and like now we should be penalized.
[00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:20.960] Yeah.
[00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:22.760] I mean, the nation.
[00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:26.800] I mean, people have to have babies.
[00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:29.200] But they have to come out somehow.
[00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:30.280] And this is how they come out.
[00:19:30.280 --> 00:19:30.760] Yeah.
[00:19:30.760 --> 00:19:32.600] And I mean, it's so important.
[00:19:32.600 --> 00:19:34.280] It's not just about making money.
[00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:36.360] And that's where the call to action is.
[00:19:36.520 --> 00:19:43.960] It's not like this is not about getting rich, although you can if you start early, which is also really empowering for girls to know that.
[00:19:44.280 --> 00:19:46.360] But it's about independence.
[00:19:46.360 --> 00:19:50.680] It's a bit about being able to leave an abusive relationship if you have to.
[00:19:50.680 --> 00:19:53.640] That's a huge problem in many countries around the world.
[00:19:53.640 --> 00:19:57.800] It's being able to manage after the death or separation from a partner.
[00:19:57.800 --> 00:20:02.120] That's another issue that I talk about regularly with my guests.
[00:20:02.840 --> 00:20:04.680] So it's important.
[00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:05.960] It's so important.
[00:20:05.960 --> 00:20:14.280] And once you started the podcast, first of all, like, how did you approach it from your perspective to make it manageable for you?
[00:20:14.280 --> 00:20:18.200] Were you doing episodes once a week, every couple weeks?
[00:20:18.200 --> 00:20:20.680] Like, how did you fit it into your busy life?
[00:20:20.680 --> 00:20:27.560] Yeah, I started with every two weeks, and I'm still at the every two weeks, other than one long break that I had this year.
[00:20:27.960 --> 00:20:32.200] So that, and I think maybe even a month might be more manageable.
[00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:36.040] But I know you had said once you start, you need to keep that cadence.
[00:20:36.040 --> 00:20:40.760] And so one week would not have been as every week would not have been sustainable for me.
[00:20:40.760 --> 00:20:41.960] So, yes, yes.
[00:20:42.200 --> 00:21:04.360] And it's so important to know what's sustainable to you because it's more important that you are able to show up in a consistent rhythm versus like you said, consistent cadence versus like one month, then coming back four months later, and also communicating with your audience, saying you can expect to hear from me on these days every month.
[00:21:04.360 --> 00:21:10.200] And another thing that people don't realize is you can have repeats like when you need a break.
[00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:14.960] Okay, like you can take a break, and not everyone has heard every single episode.
[00:21:14.280 --> 00:21:16.480] So bring back an episode.
[00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:18.720] Don't just go MIA and disappear.
[00:21:14.680 --> 00:21:21.360] Like replay something just like TV does.
[00:21:21.520 --> 00:21:23.200] Like have your rewinds.
[00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:24.160] Yeah, that's a good tip.
[00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:26.960] And as you said, like no one's listened to all your episodes.
[00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:31.760] You might think they are, but you know, that they will come across something new if you repost.
[00:21:32.080 --> 00:21:32.640] Oh, yeah.
[00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:35.520] Every single time I re-release an episode, people are like, oh my God.
[00:21:35.520 --> 00:21:37.840] Like, no, I need to have this backlit.
[00:21:37.840 --> 00:21:38.560] Okay, good.
[00:21:38.560 --> 00:21:40.080] Cause I didn't have it this week.
[00:21:40.080 --> 00:21:43.680] All right, I didn't have it in me to come up with something new.
[00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:45.680] Or maybe I had to cancel a guest, right?
[00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:47.600] So that's important.
[00:21:47.600 --> 00:21:51.120] Now, you mentioned topics that you talk about regularly.
[00:21:51.120 --> 00:21:52.880] So, how do you approach the content?
[00:21:52.880 --> 00:21:54.560] Now we know who your audience is.
[00:21:54.560 --> 00:22:00.160] How do you approach your themes and what episode you'll do every other week?
[00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:01.040] Yes.
[00:22:01.360 --> 00:22:08.560] So that has been, I've been fortunate that way because one of my biggest concerns/slash worries was, wow, will I have enough content?
[00:22:08.560 --> 00:22:10.880] And will I be able to keep thinking of ideas?
[00:22:11.120 --> 00:22:12.480] And so I just started.
[00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:19.200] I think you had recommended that make sure you have three episodes ready to go when you launch and 10 thought about.
[00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:21.280] So that's what I started with.
[00:22:21.280 --> 00:22:25.360] And the first three were just people I knew who were willing to be on that podcast.
[00:22:25.360 --> 00:22:27.200] So I'm so grateful for that.
[00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:30.880] And from there, people started recommending other people.
[00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:33.040] And then I started researching the topic.
[00:22:33.040 --> 00:22:38.720] And that's the other thing I think is really fascinating: how I started is not how I am now.
[00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:43.840] I myself have learned so much, learning so much from the people I've interviewed.
[00:22:43.840 --> 00:22:51.040] And my journey is really becoming more and more familiar with this topic and what the issues are around the world.
[00:22:56.640 --> 00:22:58.200] I'm just so proud of you.
[00:22:57.680 --> 00:22:58.760] I am.
[00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:02.840] I'm just so proud of how it's taken on a life of its own.
[00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:09.160] And that to me is something that's so beautiful about building a platform, period, that it takes on a life of its own.
[00:23:09.160 --> 00:23:22.600] Right now, all of a sudden, people are pitching you or reaching out to have to suggest a guest because your platform is important and they want you to talk to this person, or this person wants to be on it because they recognize you have an audience.
[00:23:22.600 --> 00:23:24.040] So, what has that been like?
[00:23:24.040 --> 00:23:28.280] Starting to realize that, oh my God, I'm building something bigger than myself.
[00:23:28.280 --> 00:23:29.640] That's really exciting.
[00:23:30.440 --> 00:23:33.000] Really exciting, and gives me purpose.
[00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:34.120] This sounds a bit trite.
[00:23:34.360 --> 00:23:37.720] It gives me purpose to keep going because it really is.
[00:23:38.120 --> 00:23:41.080] I mean, it's bigger than me for sure.
[00:23:41.080 --> 00:23:42.920] And it's desperately needed.
[00:23:42.920 --> 00:23:51.560] So, I'm meeting other people who have similar goals in the world and helping amplify their messages as well.
[00:23:51.560 --> 00:23:56.840] What's been one of the most surprising things that has come out of the Banking on Girls podcast?
[00:23:56.840 --> 00:23:58.040] Here it is.
[00:23:58.360 --> 00:24:05.080] Did you know that many of your financial habits and behaviors are formed by the age of seven?
[00:24:05.400 --> 00:24:08.040] No, no, so I didn't know that either.
[00:24:08.360 --> 00:24:13.480] Yeah, yes, Cambridge University did a study, and that's what it determined.
[00:24:13.480 --> 00:24:19.800] And that really changed how I, you know, I discovered this about a year, year and a half into the podcast.
[00:24:19.800 --> 00:24:22.680] I'm now at about two years, so not that long ago.
[00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:37.880] And it really made me change how I think about the topic because I learned-I mean, I learned a little-I mean, I had financially literate parents, but I didn't learn about it myself as a topic till I studied it in university and beyond.
[00:24:37.880 --> 00:24:40.280] But that really blew my mind.
[00:24:40.280 --> 00:24:47.520] And from there, I started thinking about doing like mother-daughter workshops, which I've piloted.
[00:24:47.520 --> 00:24:58.880] And I'm finding that like everybody wants this because I think people recognize, people recognize there is a need, but they don't know how to teach it or what to do.
[00:24:59.840 --> 00:25:09.600] The modern world is so complicated, and kids are being forced to reckon with this very early on, things like Apple Pay, student debt, credit cards at 18.
[00:25:10.080 --> 00:25:12.320] Can you imagine having Apple Pay in high school?
[00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:14.080] Yes, and they do.
[00:25:14.080 --> 00:25:14.720] They do.
[00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:15.200] They all do.
[00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:16.160] Super high school.
[00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:17.840] Be prepared.
[00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:24.320] So, so, and they don't, they don't see it that there's a disconnect between real money and electronic money.
[00:25:24.320 --> 00:25:28.000] And how do you teach your kids all these things and help help them?
[00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:29.440] Because they're going to need help.
[00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:33.040] They need to understand that money doesn't happen with the push of a button.
[00:25:33.840 --> 00:25:35.760] Oh my God, there's so much I love about this.
[00:25:35.760 --> 00:25:47.120] First of all, you piloting something is the whole ethos behind like podcast moguls, building a podcast that turns into a business because it's like people are like, What should I do to make money?
[00:25:47.120 --> 00:25:49.200] Well, first of all, you have to do your podcast.
[00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:52.640] You have to get to know what your audience needs, and then you got to test stuff.
[00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:54.880] Like that, that is the journey, y'all.
[00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:56.400] So you're doing exactly that.
[00:25:56.400 --> 00:26:00.400] You're piloting this and seeing, like, wait, this is a real need.
[00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:01.600] Now, what next?
[00:26:01.600 --> 00:26:03.840] That's the journey too of entrepreneurship.
[00:26:03.840 --> 00:26:05.280] It's the what next.
[00:26:05.760 --> 00:26:06.960] It's not written for you.
[00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:10.160] You're literally writing the blueprint as you go.
[00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:13.600] So now it's up to you to decide: okay, do I charge for this?
[00:26:13.600 --> 00:26:14.880] How many seats do I have?
[00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:16.720] Is it online, in person?
[00:26:16.720 --> 00:26:19.120] Is it free when there's an upgrade, right?
[00:26:19.120 --> 00:26:23.200] Like, so, you know, what are your thoughts around it so far?
[00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:25.280] Yeah, well, I've piloted it.
[00:26:25.600 --> 00:26:32.760] I've done an online version and I've done many mini versions, three or four in person.
[00:26:29.920 --> 00:26:35.960] And there is interest in a paid version.
[00:26:36.760 --> 00:26:38.680] So we'll see where that goes.
[00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:42.920] I think, as I said, there's a real need and a real market for it.
[00:26:42.920 --> 00:26:43.400] Yeah.
[00:26:43.400 --> 00:26:45.640] So these were not paid so far.
[00:26:45.640 --> 00:26:47.160] These were like free.
[00:26:47.800 --> 00:26:48.440] Yes.
[00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:50.600] Yes, essentially free.
[00:26:50.600 --> 00:26:51.160] Yeah.
[00:26:51.160 --> 00:26:54.840] I've done them as beta tests and then I've done them for charity organizations.
[00:26:55.320 --> 00:26:55.720] Okay.
[00:26:55.720 --> 00:26:56.200] Okay.
[00:26:56.840 --> 00:27:04.520] And I don't want to get you in trouble at all, but there's also, if you think about it, like opportunity kind of to do it B2B.
[00:27:04.520 --> 00:27:06.840] Like Marina, full transparency moment, right?
[00:27:06.840 --> 00:27:23.400] If I was starting over and if I had your podcast topic, I would look at this as a B2B play, not even business to consumer, not even B2C, because I would look at it as like, this is something that has interest and I could sell this, package this to financial institutions.
[00:27:23.400 --> 00:27:25.400] And what would that look like?
[00:27:25.400 --> 00:27:28.120] Again, what would that look like is up to us.
[00:27:28.120 --> 00:27:31.720] We're still developing and shaping it, but that's how I would look at it.
[00:27:31.720 --> 00:27:37.240] I wouldn't even look at it as like, oh, let me develop this course and sell it to one-on-one by one.
[00:27:38.040 --> 00:27:39.400] People to come in one by one.
[00:27:39.400 --> 00:27:40.520] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:43.880] It's like I'm going to build something for companies.
[00:27:43.880 --> 00:27:45.800] And hey, do you want to be a part of this?
[00:27:45.800 --> 00:27:47.560] Because, you know, such and such is interested.
[00:27:47.560 --> 00:27:50.200] So if you don't want it, I'm going to take it on the road to such and such.
[00:27:51.800 --> 00:27:53.720] Yeah, I mean, there are many options.
[00:27:53.720 --> 00:27:56.360] So early days, but yeah, good point.
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[00:30:48.840 --> 00:30:56.920] The other thing I love about this is a lot of times when you become a mom of a girl, especially, you start noticing things.
[00:30:56.920 --> 00:31:08.920] You start looking at the world differently and you realize a lot everything is presented and pitched to us through the lens of mommy and me shopping, mommy and me, yoga, mommy and me.
[00:31:08.920 --> 00:31:12.520] It's all these like soft lives things and not the hard life skills.
[00:31:12.520 --> 00:31:15.320] Like, can we have mommy and me financial literacy?
[00:31:15.320 --> 00:31:18.440] Can we do that as a mommy and me excursion, right?
[00:31:18.760 --> 00:31:20.040] Why do we have to go spend money?
[00:31:20.040 --> 00:31:27.080] Let's get together and like create a business, make some money, invest, all of that.
[00:31:27.080 --> 00:31:30.680] So I'm glad you're thinking about that at this point.
[00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:32.760] And I mean, it's so true.
[00:31:33.320 --> 00:31:43.160] The Girls Scouts Institute did a survey quite a few years ago now, but it found that 85 plus percent of girls look to their mothers for their financial literacy.
[00:31:43.160 --> 00:31:49.440] So, hence, I think you mentioned that as a point early on, like we have to get the mothers involved in this.
[00:31:49.600 --> 00:31:56.320] And there are so many things you can do, even at it from the age of three, you can start talking in an age-appropriate way.
[00:31:56.960 --> 00:32:14.960] Things I mentioned that your habits and behaviors are formed by age seven, but things you can do sort of before age seven, including include just like making a shopping list, and that that's like you know, prioritizing or talking about talking about the price of things that helps them with decision making.
[00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:17.840] All those things are part of financial literacy.
[00:32:17.840 --> 00:32:22.240] It's not, it's not, it's not like having some great formula that makes you wealthy.
[00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:25.280] These are just like basic concepts that can be built.
[00:32:25.280 --> 00:32:26.880] That is so true.
[00:32:26.880 --> 00:32:33.360] Like, so you're essentially, and now we're getting to like this is like a tips portion of the segment.
[00:32:33.360 --> 00:32:35.920] No, because I'm generally interested in this, right?
[00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:42.400] It's timely information, especially since it happened so early, those formative habits.
[00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:50.400] So, it's really making money a real thing in this world of AI and like Apple Pay, it's going to be for them.
[00:32:50.400 --> 00:33:01.440] It's like, no, things cost money, and money takes work, but also like you need to pay for things, you need to save.
[00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:01.840] Yes.
[00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:03.440] We have a bank.
[00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:09.680] And how do you approach those topics in a changing world where they're not using physical cash the same way?
[00:33:09.680 --> 00:33:22.160] I've heard, it's been a little while since my kids were that age, but I would pull out real money and show them real money because otherwise, the concept of money, there is no concept of money.
[00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:28.440] So, showing them money, maybe even taking them to the shops and having them, you know, buy something.
[00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:32.280] If anyone's accepting money anymore, I don't have real money anymore.
[00:33:29.920 --> 00:33:36.360] But at least at home, do that.
[00:33:36.520 --> 00:33:49.560] And you'll hear there was an episode I did with a gentleman called Greg Creed, who was the CEO of Yum Brands, which is the company that encompasses KFC, Pizza Heart, and those companies.
[00:33:49.560 --> 00:33:59.960] And in that episode, he talks about taking his three-year-old grandson out for lunch or dinner and three years old and saying, How do you think we're going to pay for this?
[00:33:59.960 --> 00:34:05.560] And really talking to him about money because it's important enough to do that.
[00:34:05.560 --> 00:34:08.440] And then it becomes a natural part of the conversation.
[00:34:08.440 --> 00:34:13.960] I think one thing that surprised me and that I learned was these families that don't talk about money.
[00:34:14.120 --> 00:34:19.240] So just if all you do is just have the conversation, then that's that's half the battle.
[00:34:19.640 --> 00:34:22.280] Don't shy away from talking about money.
[00:34:22.280 --> 00:34:23.160] Oh, I love that.
[00:34:23.400 --> 00:34:25.320] How do you think we're going to pay for this?
[00:34:25.640 --> 00:34:27.240] What does his grandson say?
[00:34:27.880 --> 00:34:29.320] I don't know.
[00:34:30.600 --> 00:34:31.640] I love that.
[00:34:31.640 --> 00:34:33.800] And you've had some phenomenal guests.
[00:34:33.800 --> 00:34:36.600] You mentioned starting with your network, which I always recommend.
[00:34:36.600 --> 00:34:40.440] But then how else did you go about it if you don't know someone?
[00:34:40.760 --> 00:34:43.640] If you don't know someone, I've asked for introductions.
[00:34:43.640 --> 00:34:49.800] And rarely I have sort of cold called and then I'll get someone to respond.
[00:34:49.800 --> 00:34:56.040] But generally, a warm introduction, as in everything, a warm introduction works much better than just reaching out.
[00:34:56.040 --> 00:34:56.520] Yeah.
[00:34:56.520 --> 00:34:56.840] Yes.
[00:34:56.840 --> 00:35:02.760] And you have a wonderful network, but also you know how to leverage to get the warm introduction.
[00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:03.800] So, I love that.
[00:35:03.800 --> 00:35:06.440] And, like I said, you've had some amazing guests.
[00:35:06.440 --> 00:35:08.760] I'm so proud of you and what you're building.
[00:35:08.760 --> 00:35:12.440] And you've also had the opportunity to speak at the United Nations.
[00:35:12.520 --> 00:35:14.280] Did that come because of the podcast?
[00:35:14.520 --> 00:35:15.360] Yes, it did.
[00:35:14.600 --> 00:35:19.600] That's the other aspect that I never expected, Nikayla.
[00:35:19.680 --> 00:35:31.200] And again, it was something you said in not in this specific instance, but in other instances, where you said, Don't be afraid to say, Hey, you have a podcast, and would you have a media pass available?
[00:35:31.520 --> 00:35:33.360] So that's a great tip.
[00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:41.280] But for the United Nations, I belong to a community that has an NGO with the United Nations, with the EcoSong Council.
[00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:47.840] And for 20 years, they've been attending the Commission on the Status of Women and other commissions at the United Nations.
[00:35:47.840 --> 00:35:56.560] And then I saw a call for participation in the United Nations Commission on the Status of Women two years ago.
[00:35:56.560 --> 00:36:00.080] And I realized, wow, I would like to do this.
[00:36:00.080 --> 00:36:05.680] And I actually have something to offer, whereas I never would have thought I did before the podcast.
[00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:10.160] And so they were kind enough to take me on as part of the team.
[00:36:10.400 --> 00:36:16.240] And we had a number of different women and girls, high school age girls, who all had different angles.
[00:36:16.240 --> 00:36:19.440] And we all spoke on a panel at the parallel event.
[00:36:19.440 --> 00:36:25.440] There's a parallel event that happens at the same time, which is open to the public just across the road at the UN Plaza.
[00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:28.960] And then we also get to attend as delegates inside the UN.
[00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:30.880] So it's fantastic.
[00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:31.840] Amazing.
[00:36:31.840 --> 00:36:33.920] Do you know how amazing that is?
[00:36:33.920 --> 00:36:37.040] Oh my God, that is incredible.
[00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:49.200] To me, that sounds incredible, but I'm curious: like, what have been just some of the top benefits for you, you know, in on this journey of having your platform right now?
[00:36:49.520 --> 00:36:59.760] I mean, the number one top benefit has been learning, and it was completely unexpected because I considered myself a financial professional 25, probably 30 years now.
[00:37:00.760 --> 00:37:10.920] And so I didn't, I thought I was going to impart knowledge and draw knowledge out of other people, but I am learning probably more than I'm imparting at this point.
[00:37:11.800 --> 00:37:22.680] When I went to the UN, I realized the issues we have, issues that women have all around the world, including women in Scandinavia, which I didn't expect.
[00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:28.200] It's such an egalitarian society, but they have real issues with the gender pay gap.
[00:37:28.200 --> 00:37:35.400] And to hear ministers from that country talking about it and addressing it is, you know, pretty eye-opening.
[00:37:40.840 --> 00:37:51.960] Do you see yourself doing any work specifically in addition to the education piece, but specifically to try to impact things like the gender pay gap?
[00:37:52.280 --> 00:37:57.880] I haven't thought in that type of a granular fashion yet.
[00:37:57.880 --> 00:38:06.600] I think I've learnt enough now that anything could like pop out and be an area of interest.
[00:38:07.080 --> 00:38:15.320] But with everything going on, I'm just kind of focused on the podcast and launching the mother-daughter workshops and attending.
[00:38:15.320 --> 00:38:28.680] I got to attend the Melkin conference, which is, it brings together thought leaders and politicians and leaders in business once a year in Los Angeles being close by.
[00:38:28.680 --> 00:38:31.960] And they were kind enough to give me a media pass.
[00:38:31.960 --> 00:38:39.640] And when you attend an event like that and you hear the sort of people speaking, then all sorts of new ideas come into your mind as well.
[00:38:40.760 --> 00:38:43.480] But right now, I'm just focused on these two things.
[00:38:43.800 --> 00:38:44.120] Okay.
[00:38:44.120 --> 00:38:47.840] And those are two incredible and important things to be focused on.
[00:38:48.400 --> 00:38:55.200] I love that you brought up the media pass thing because I sometimes forget that I recommend that, but that's another perk, right?
[00:38:55.520 --> 00:38:56.640] So I did that as well.
[00:38:56.640 --> 00:39:03.040] Like my early podcasting days, I'll reach out to a conference I want to go to and say, Hey, can I attend this press?
[00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:05.520] And people are open to it.
[00:39:05.520 --> 00:39:08.800] Like people want press coverage, people want media there.
[00:39:08.800 --> 00:39:12.960] And now, nowadays, like there's media looks like so many different things.
[00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:15.680] That's not to step on any of my journalist friend toes.
[00:39:15.680 --> 00:39:16.000] Yes.
[00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:19.520] But, you know, coverage is coverage.
[00:39:20.320 --> 00:39:24.320] So that is one of the things I don't think a lot of podcasters realize.
[00:39:24.320 --> 00:39:29.280] Like you can leverage your podcast to be in spaces that you want to be in.
[00:39:29.280 --> 00:39:29.760] Right.
[00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:37.440] And I think from the early days of when I learned broadcasting, I remember that when, you know, this was in Sydney, Australia.
[00:39:37.840 --> 00:39:41.360] When people visited Sydney, you know, I used to try and get them on my show.
[00:39:41.360 --> 00:39:43.600] And it was, it's relatively easy.
[00:39:43.600 --> 00:39:45.520] I mean, everyone wants to tell their story.
[00:39:45.520 --> 00:39:47.440] Everyone wants a little coverage, right?
[00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:48.640] So, yes.
[00:39:49.680 --> 00:39:58.720] Now you are in this space where you are developing a platform that's taken on a life of its own that's really growing, but you also work full-time.
[00:39:59.120 --> 00:40:10.400] How have you approached this so that your job doesn't get concerned or doesn't think anything is happening on the side?
[00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:11.360] Yes.
[00:40:11.760 --> 00:40:15.600] So that was a big concern of mine before I started.
[00:40:16.400 --> 00:40:25.360] I have a lot of rules and regulations around what I do, and I needed to make sure everything was done, you know, completely properly.
[00:40:25.360 --> 00:40:34.760] And, you know, I simply had a conversation with my work, the compliance department, and they were very, very supportive.
[00:40:35.080 --> 00:40:39.720] And so I spent a lot of time worrying about that.
[00:40:40.360 --> 00:40:41.800] And I shouldn't have.
[00:40:41.880 --> 00:40:44.120] So, you know, honesty is always the best policy.
[00:40:44.760 --> 00:40:48.200] There's no point trying to do a podcast sort of quietly.
[00:40:50.360 --> 00:40:55.160] So, and then, of course, there are guidelines and rules around that.
[00:40:55.160 --> 00:41:01.880] I can't, there are certain people I can't have on my show that would be great guests, but I just can't.
[00:41:01.880 --> 00:41:05.960] And I just have to accept that and work within those constraints.
[00:41:05.960 --> 00:41:11.320] But I seem to have plenty of other avenues for material and information.
[00:41:11.880 --> 00:41:14.200] Honesty truly is the best policy.
[00:41:14.200 --> 00:41:18.440] If you can, you know, put it on your resume if you are looking.
[00:41:18.440 --> 00:41:28.840] And if you already, once you start, yeah, check out your employee handbook and talk with the office, the HR office, the compliance offices.
[00:41:28.840 --> 00:41:38.680] I know it feels like you're going to, you know, there are situations where it is like ask for forgiveness, not for permission, but you have to know your situation best.
[00:41:38.680 --> 00:41:47.480] But most times I would recommend going the permission route, aka being honest and upfront and think about how you're positioning it too.
[00:41:47.480 --> 00:41:53.560] If you're like, hey, I'm doing this podcast that might be against company rules, they're going to be like, okay, no, you can't do it.
[00:41:53.880 --> 00:42:01.000] But if you're like, hey, I have this side project, it's completely harmless, but I just wanted to bring it to you.
[00:42:01.240 --> 00:42:04.360] Kind of like, you know, how you finesse it as well.
[00:42:04.680 --> 00:42:04.920] Exactly.
[00:42:05.240 --> 00:42:12.040] Being honest, but you are making sure you position it as not a threat and not taking away from what you've said there.
[00:42:12.680 --> 00:42:14.120] And quite the opposite.
[00:42:14.120 --> 00:42:22.880] So, I think it's a huge advantage to my professional circles and the place I work.
[00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:26.000] I think it's a real positive in all directions.
[00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:28.640] And a lot of them have said they're really proud of me.
[00:42:28.640 --> 00:42:34.240] So, I'm really happy that I took courage into my hands and started.
[00:42:34.240 --> 00:42:38.240] Why do you think your podcast is actually a benefit to the place you work?
[00:42:38.240 --> 00:42:40.080] Well, I think, I mean, it's a great cause.
[00:42:40.080 --> 00:42:42.560] I mean, it's a very important cause.
[00:42:42.560 --> 00:42:56.720] I mean, it's an important problem that needs to be dealt with, first understood, dealt with, and solved, hopefully, by society.
[00:42:56.960 --> 00:43:03.840] People, there's an awareness level that people may not have had that I didn't have even until I went on this journey.
[00:43:03.840 --> 00:43:11.040] So, part of what I do in my Outra work is trying to help people save for retirement.
[00:43:11.040 --> 00:43:16.160] So, you know, this is very sympathetic with that goal as well.
[00:43:16.160 --> 00:43:21.040] And how did you get over not wanting to post on LinkedIn at first?
[00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:24.000] Your company's approval.
[00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:28.800] It can feel strange at first, like everyone's in my business.
[00:43:28.800 --> 00:43:30.160] How did you get over that?
[00:43:30.160 --> 00:43:31.280] I hated it, Nicola.
[00:43:31.280 --> 00:43:34.720] And I still, I mean, social media is not my friend.
[00:43:35.360 --> 00:43:38.000] Well, it may be my friend, but I'm not its friend.
[00:43:39.120 --> 00:43:40.640] So that was just a discipline.
[00:43:40.640 --> 00:43:47.040] And that was again something you helped a lot with, like, you know, weekly daily posting or posting around daily posting, forget it.
[00:43:47.040 --> 00:43:48.560] Yet, I'm not at that level.
[00:43:48.960 --> 00:43:57.840] But posting around the podcast, I realized very quickly that no one is actually like, forget about being worried about anyone hearing it.
[00:43:57.840 --> 00:44:01.400] Like, no one's going to listen to it if you don't post, right?
[00:43:59.840 --> 00:44:03.640] No one knows what you dropped on your PC.
[00:44:06.840 --> 00:44:09.080] Yeah, tell them over and over again.
[00:44:09.080 --> 00:44:10.120] Exactly.
[00:44:11.400 --> 00:44:12.920] So that was it.
[00:44:12.920 --> 00:44:15.960] Just having, just understanding that something I needed to do.
[00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:18.840] And after I had done a few, then I realized this isn't so bad.
[00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:24.280] I got a lot of support, a lot of support by way of likes.
[00:44:25.240 --> 00:44:28.360] And so then I realized this is, this is a good thing.
[00:44:28.360 --> 00:44:29.800] Yes, it is.
[00:44:29.800 --> 00:44:37.960] And speaking of that, when it comes to marketing, I know that has been one of the learning curves, the steepest learning curves for you.
[00:44:38.120 --> 00:44:40.120] It's not something that you enjoy doing.
[00:44:40.120 --> 00:44:46.120] And that's always tough when you don't enjoy a portion of your business, but one that's so needed to grow it.
[00:44:46.520 --> 00:44:51.800] So, you know, what has been your key learnings that's really helped you with that portion of it?
[00:44:51.800 --> 00:44:52.040] Yeah.
[00:44:52.040 --> 00:44:57.480] First one is getting over the fear of marketing.
[00:44:58.120 --> 00:45:01.800] I think something that that's important to understand is it's not really marketing.
[00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:04.200] Like you have to tell people about what you're doing.
[00:45:04.200 --> 00:45:09.880] So if you look at it in that lens, it doesn't seem as much like marketing.
[00:45:10.200 --> 00:45:13.240] And then just the discipline of like, you just have to do this every time.
[00:45:13.240 --> 00:45:16.920] Every time at least you drop an episode, you have to do a few posts around it.
[00:45:16.920 --> 00:45:21.400] So yeah, that's, you know, something I hammer home.
[00:45:21.400 --> 00:45:24.360] It's just kind of like, it's just part of the process.
[00:45:24.360 --> 00:45:30.120] Like every single time you treat it like it is, or at least, okay, I won't act like I'm perfect.
[00:45:30.120 --> 00:45:37.880] Like the times that I don't promote an episode, I see the difference between those times and the times where I promote it like it's my very first episode.
[00:45:37.880 --> 00:45:46.560] Each time as a podcaster, the biggest discipline you need is to train yourself to keep promoting your episodes as if it's their first episode.
[00:45:46.560 --> 00:45:48.080] You know how everyone gets so excited.
[00:45:48.080 --> 00:45:50.320] Oh, I got a new podcast out.
[00:45:50.320 --> 00:45:52.080] And then you just think people are going to listen.
[00:45:52.080 --> 00:45:54.720] No, no, that's not how it works.
[00:45:54.720 --> 00:45:55.280] Right.
[00:45:55.280 --> 00:45:56.960] And it's very humbling.
[00:45:56.960 --> 00:45:57.520] It is.
[00:45:57.520 --> 00:45:58.000] It is.
[00:45:58.000 --> 00:46:02.480] And then the other thing is they're not all seeing, as you had said, they're not all seeing your posts.
[00:46:02.480 --> 00:46:06.240] So like you have to, you have to keep posting because of the algorithms and all that.
[00:46:06.400 --> 00:46:06.800] Yes.
[00:46:07.040 --> 00:46:14.400] Or just when they might have seen it the first day you posted it, but then they might not go on a particular social media platform that day, right?
[00:46:14.400 --> 00:46:15.680] Or in that hour.
[00:46:15.680 --> 00:46:17.040] So that's another thing too.
[00:46:17.040 --> 00:46:19.760] Like people are just on there at different times.
[00:46:19.760 --> 00:46:20.240] Right.
[00:46:20.240 --> 00:46:26.960] And you have to get over the fact that you feel like you are overloading them with information because they're probably not even seeing it.
[00:46:26.960 --> 00:46:29.120] So that's another hurdle to get over.
[00:46:29.360 --> 00:46:29.920] Yeah.
[00:46:29.920 --> 00:46:32.720] And I think I still deal with that with emails, right?
[00:46:32.720 --> 00:46:34.960] I'm like, oh my God, I have to email about this again.
[00:46:34.960 --> 00:46:36.000] Press send.
[00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:38.560] But then when I look at the unsubscribes, right?
[00:46:38.560 --> 00:46:40.640] Like unsubscribes should happen every time.
[00:46:40.640 --> 00:46:43.360] Like that's another thing you should train your brain.
[00:46:43.360 --> 00:46:50.320] Like if you think that your list is supposed to just, everyone's supposed to stay on your list like that, it's actually not that way.
[00:46:50.320 --> 00:46:50.720] Right.
[00:46:50.720 --> 00:46:56.240] But when you look at the rate of unsubscribes, I'm like, oh my God, I have this many people and only this many people unsubscribe with that email.
[00:46:56.240 --> 00:46:58.240] Like, I think it's worth sending.
[00:46:58.640 --> 00:47:02.320] I'm like, I said it again and nobody minded.
[00:47:03.200 --> 00:47:04.800] Barely anyone left.
[00:47:06.080 --> 00:47:08.160] So that's like the proof.
[00:47:08.160 --> 00:47:13.280] Like when you really look at numbers, you can affirm yourself in your decisions.
[00:47:13.280 --> 00:47:15.360] Like, okay, this only got this many impressions.
[00:47:15.360 --> 00:47:16.240] I need to post again.
[00:47:16.240 --> 00:47:17.600] Only this many people unsubscribed.
[00:47:17.600 --> 00:47:18.000] Okay, cool.
[00:47:18.000 --> 00:47:19.520] I'm not burning out the list.
[00:47:19.520 --> 00:47:20.640] This many people open.
[00:47:20.640 --> 00:47:21.920] This many people click.
[00:47:21.920 --> 00:47:23.760] Let's send another one.
[00:47:24.240 --> 00:47:26.560] That's how you got to think about it.
[00:47:31.080 --> 00:47:39.400] Before we jump into the lightning round, is there anything else that you want to share just about the journey so far and what you've learned, what you've enjoyed?
[00:47:40.200 --> 00:47:49.640] I'd like to thank you, Nikaleb, for making this honestly possible and sort of being there all these years, you know, in the background, offering your help.
[00:47:49.960 --> 00:47:50.840] It's been amazing.
[00:47:50.840 --> 00:47:56.280] There's no possible way I could have done it if I hadn't come across your community or your course.
[00:47:56.280 --> 00:48:04.200] So, and yeah, what I can't believe is where the journey has taken me is completely different to how I started.
[00:48:04.200 --> 00:48:06.840] So, which is probably true of many things in life.
[00:48:06.840 --> 00:48:07.160] Yeah.
[00:48:08.120 --> 00:48:14.840] And speaking of that, I remember you once said that podcasting to you, podcasting has given you job security.
[00:48:14.840 --> 00:48:16.120] Do you still feel like that?
[00:48:16.120 --> 00:48:17.240] If so, why?
[00:48:17.240 --> 00:48:27.480] So, and I wouldn't say security, but it has given me a new, just sort of being on LinkedIn and having material sort of adjacent to what I'm doing.
[00:48:27.480 --> 00:48:34.040] I think it's given, I would say, a new lease of life or interest in what I'm doing.
[00:48:34.600 --> 00:48:42.680] And I think in the old days, my dad used to tell me, like, you need to write papers, like you need to, you know, those kind of academic papers in your career.
[00:48:42.680 --> 00:48:43.960] And I think everything is different now.
[00:48:43.960 --> 00:48:51.640] So I think podcasting is a really interesting way of keeping your ideas alive and keeping things new and fresh.
[00:48:51.640 --> 00:48:52.360] Oh, yes.
[00:48:52.360 --> 00:48:57.880] And just showcasing what you can do, your mind, your perspective.
[00:48:58.440 --> 00:49:03.240] Yeah, I think it really does keep you fresh in the marketplace.
[00:49:03.240 --> 00:49:06.040] Because, you know, God forbid something were to happen.
[00:49:06.040 --> 00:49:11.000] Like, it just feels like now you have so many different things you could do in life.
[00:49:11.000 --> 00:49:11.320] Yeah.
[00:49:11.320 --> 00:49:12.040] That's right.
[00:49:12.040 --> 00:49:14.440] So that's truly awesome.
[00:49:17.040 --> 00:49:19.680] So now we're going to jump into a quick lightning round.
[00:49:19.680 --> 00:49:22.560] You know, the deal, you just answer the first thing that comes to mind.
[00:49:22.560 --> 00:49:22.960] Okay.
[00:49:23.280 --> 00:49:23.920] Yeah.
[00:49:24.560 --> 00:49:25.120] Okay.
[00:49:25.440 --> 00:49:34.800] So what is a top resource that is helping you right now with your podcast and business that you can share with the Side Hustle Pro audience?
[00:49:34.800 --> 00:49:40.960] So I would say, and something took me a long time to do is the scheduling, the scheduling app.
[00:49:41.120 --> 00:49:43.040] So I think I use later.
[00:49:43.040 --> 00:49:48.720] And I would have to say, AI is like an unbelievable help in writing.
[00:49:49.120 --> 00:49:52.160] Writing and everything, like how I use it mostly.
[00:49:52.160 --> 00:49:52.640] Okay.
[00:49:52.640 --> 00:50:00.400] So now I've got it down to, okay, I've even got it down to like, here are my thoughts, write me like an episode on this.
[00:50:01.520 --> 00:50:04.080] It writes the newsletter, it writes the posts.
[00:50:04.480 --> 00:50:05.840] I can't use it straight.
[00:50:05.840 --> 00:50:14.240] I mean, I have to edit it for sure, but I've really got it down to like, and it actually came back to me and said, oh, here's a whole package for your next blog.
[00:50:14.480 --> 00:50:15.920] They called it a package.
[00:50:16.320 --> 00:50:18.320] For your next podcast.
[00:50:21.200 --> 00:50:22.240] I love it.
[00:50:22.240 --> 00:50:22.720] Yeah.
[00:50:23.600 --> 00:50:27.920] And then, you know, another thing about podcasting is I feel like it keeps us in a no, right?
[00:50:27.920 --> 00:50:34.080] Because especially now with kids, your kids are about to go to college, one in college, they're looking at you and it's like, oh, mom knows that.
[00:50:34.080 --> 00:50:34.480] Oh, okay.
[00:50:34.480 --> 00:50:35.440] I don't teach her that.
[00:50:35.440 --> 00:50:36.320] She knows that.
[00:50:36.320 --> 00:50:38.240] Yeah, well, there's only a little bit of that.
[00:50:38.240 --> 00:50:40.160] It's usually mom plus like what?
[00:50:40.320 --> 00:50:42.000] Did you really say that?
[00:50:42.240 --> 00:50:44.320] I can't believe you didn't know that.
[00:50:44.320 --> 00:50:46.160] Okay, number two.
[00:50:46.160 --> 00:50:49.680] What is a really good business book that you've read recently?
[00:50:49.680 --> 00:50:53.680] I have read, you know, Rachel Rogers.
[00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:54.640] Yes.
[00:50:54.960 --> 00:50:58.080] I read her book, Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?
[00:50:58.080 --> 00:51:01.720] And I've known that's like one of my favorite business books, right?
[00:51:01.720 --> 00:51:03.320] I did not know that, really.
[00:51:03.320 --> 00:51:04.120] I did.
[00:51:04.120 --> 00:51:04.600] Yeah.
[00:51:04.600 --> 00:51:05.240] Okay.
[00:51:05.240 --> 00:51:05.640] Yeah.
[00:51:05.960 --> 00:51:06.200] Okay.
[00:50:59.920 --> 00:51:06.600] Yes.
[00:51:07.240 --> 00:51:08.840] It's like a life and business book.
[00:51:09.000 --> 00:51:11.000] It's like a mentor in my head kind of book.
[00:51:11.000 --> 00:51:11.720] Correct.
[00:51:11.720 --> 00:51:12.920] And so that's.
[00:51:13.240 --> 00:51:15.000] That's been very eye-opening to me.
[00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:17.640] You need to write a book, but we'll talk about that next time.
[00:51:17.640 --> 00:51:19.240] Oh, yeah, that's a whole other thing.
[00:51:19.560 --> 00:51:20.680] Another opportunity.
[00:51:21.160 --> 00:51:25.800] I mean, like opening up opportunities because Rachel just wrote a book, Future Millionaires, it's called.
[00:51:25.800 --> 00:51:26.920] I don't know if you know that.
[00:51:26.920 --> 00:51:27.240] Okay.
[00:51:27.240 --> 00:51:32.120] Number three, what's a non-negotiable part of your day these days?
[00:51:32.440 --> 00:51:38.440] I try to go for a walk, non-negotiable, whatever time I can fit it in.
[00:51:38.440 --> 00:51:38.840] Yeah.
[00:51:39.160 --> 00:51:39.960] Love it.
[00:51:39.960 --> 00:51:46.920] Number four, what is a personal trait about Marina that has contributed to your success?
[00:51:47.480 --> 00:51:48.600] I never give up.
[00:51:48.600 --> 00:51:49.480] It doesn't matter.
[00:51:49.480 --> 00:51:51.000] It could take years.
[00:51:51.000 --> 00:51:53.400] I mean, and it does usually with me.
[00:51:53.720 --> 00:51:54.520] Yes, yes.
[00:51:56.120 --> 00:51:56.840] Yes.
[00:51:57.320 --> 00:51:58.520] I think that's a trait.
[00:51:58.520 --> 00:52:08.280] Like, I feel like a lot of my guests, in order to get into this side hustle pro guest chair, I truly believe that's like a common thread because, you know, we might be down for a bit, but we don't give up.
[00:52:08.360 --> 00:52:09.960] We got it back up.
[00:52:10.600 --> 00:52:21.640] And then finally, finally, what is your parting advice for side hustlers who want to start something on the side, but are worried about how it's going to look?
[00:52:21.960 --> 00:52:22.600] Okay.
[00:52:23.080 --> 00:52:26.520] Please do not worry about how it's going to look.
[00:52:26.520 --> 00:52:34.600] I heard a quote from someone that, you know, I wouldn't worry about what other people are thinking because they're probably not thinking about you.
[00:52:34.920 --> 00:52:44.600] So do whatever is in your heart because I think that's going to be one of your biggest regrets that you worry about what other people think.
[00:52:44.800 --> 00:52:47.200] Indeed, indeed.
[00:52:47.200 --> 00:52:49.120] Oh, Marina, this has been awesome.
[00:52:49.120 --> 00:52:50.800] Thank you for being in the guest chair.
[00:52:50.800 --> 00:52:57.760] It's always so cool to connect with moguls and especially, you know, just the OGs that keep coming back.
[00:52:57.760 --> 00:53:02.720] And I'm just so grateful for you to witness your journey and to be a part of it.
[00:53:03.040 --> 00:53:04.560] It's a true honor.
[00:53:04.560 --> 00:53:09.520] So where can people connect with you and Banking on Girls after this episode?
[00:53:09.520 --> 00:53:09.920] Thank you.
[00:53:09.920 --> 00:53:15.200] Banking on Girls is on all the major platforms, wherever you find your podcasts.
[00:53:15.200 --> 00:53:21.360] And www.bankingongirls.com is my website.
[00:53:22.480 --> 00:53:23.360] All right, Marina.
[00:53:23.360 --> 00:53:24.320] So thank you again.
[00:53:24.320 --> 00:53:27.680] And everyone else, I will talk to you next week.
[00:53:29.280 --> 00:53:32.320] Hey guys, thanks for listening to Side Hustle Pro.
[00:53:32.320 --> 00:53:37.040] If you like the show, be sure to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts.
[00:53:37.040 --> 00:53:40.800] It helps other side hustlers just like you to find the show.
[00:53:40.800 --> 00:53:45.440] And if you want to hear more from me, you can follow me on Instagram at SideHustle Pro.
[00:53:45.440 --> 00:53:52.480] Plus, sign up for my six-foot Saturday newsletter at sidehustlepro.co slash newsletter.
[00:53:52.480 --> 00:53:59.920] When you sign up, you will receive weekly nuggets from me, including what I'm up to, personal lessons, and my business tip of the week.
[00:53:59.920 --> 00:54:04.640] Again, that's sidehustlepro.co slash newsletter to sign up.
[00:54:04.640 --> 00:54:06.240] Talk to you soon.
[00:54:10.080 --> 00:54:19.600] If this back to school season, talking to your teenager sounds like this with Boost Mobile, make it sound like this.
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[00:54:29.440 --> 00:54:33.400] Visit your nearest boost store.
[00:54:33.720 --> 00:54:38.440] Requires ID verification, new $20 per month tablet plan and $35 device setup fee.
[00:54:38.440 --> 00:54:39.880] Taxes extra.
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Prompt 2: Key Takeaways

Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.

Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...". 

Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive. 

IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}

Prompt 3: Segments

Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.

For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)  
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion

IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
  "segments": [
    {
      "segment_title": "Topic Discussion", 
      "timestamp": "01:15:30",
      "key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
      "segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
    }
  ]
}

Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.

Prompt 4: Media Mentions

Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:

Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)  
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)

DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names

IMPORTANT: 
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
  "media_mentions": [
    {
      "title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
      "category": "Book",
      "author_artist": "N/A",
      "context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
      "context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
      "timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
    }
  ]
}

If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}

Full Transcript

[00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:05.200] Does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the void?
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[00:00:26.240 --> 00:00:28.640] Get started at linkedin.com/slash campaign.
[00:00:28.640 --> 00:00:30.240] Terms and conditions apply.
[00:00:30.240 --> 00:00:35.200] Take control of the numbers and supercharge your small business with Zero.
[00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:37.440] That's X-E-R-O.
[00:00:38.720 --> 00:00:47.520] With our easy-to-use accounting software with automation and reporting features, you'll spend less time on manual tasks and more time understanding how your business is doing.
[00:00:47.520 --> 00:00:49.440] 87% of surveyed U.S.
[00:00:49.440 --> 00:00:52.800] customers agree Xero helps improve financial visibility.
[00:00:52.800 --> 00:00:58.640] Search Zero with an X or visit zero.com/slash ACAST to start your 30-day free trial.
[00:00:58.640 --> 00:01:00.400] Conditions apply.
[00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:09.360] Did you know that many of your financial habits and behaviors are formed by the age of seven?
[00:01:09.680 --> 00:01:11.360] No, not yet.
[00:01:12.640 --> 00:01:21.360] You're listening to Side Hustle Pro, the podcast that teaches you to build and grow your side hustle from passion project to profitable business.
[00:01:21.360 --> 00:01:24.320] And I'm your host, Nikayla Matthews Okome.
[00:01:24.320 --> 00:01:26.160] So let's get started.
[00:01:28.080 --> 00:01:28.720] Hey, friends.
[00:01:28.720 --> 00:01:29.360] Hey, welcome.
[00:01:29.360 --> 00:01:30.320] Welcome back to the show.
[00:01:30.320 --> 00:01:38.000] It's Nikayla here, and today in the guest chair, I have a special student spotlight with my podcast mogul student, Marina Batliwala.
[00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:45.360] Marina is a financial professional who was born in India, raised and educated in Australia, and is currently based in LA.
[00:01:45.360 --> 00:01:55.600] And she's the producer and host of the Banking on Girls podcast, which highlights the importance of financial literacy for girls and women through life stories and interviews.
[00:01:55.600 --> 00:02:04.840] She attended the United Nations Commission on the Status of Women in New York as a delegate in 2024 and 2025, all because of her podcast.
[00:02:05.160 --> 00:02:17.640] And she's an alumni of the Cherie Blair Foundation for Women, Mentoring Women in Business Program, and a former broadcaster on Radio 2098.5 FM, Sydney's first multicultural community radio station.
[00:02:17.640 --> 00:02:28.680] In today's episode, you will hear all about Marina's journey, how she overcame her own limiting beliefs and thoughts that could have held her back, but overcame them to launch her show.
[00:02:28.680 --> 00:02:37.000] And now it has opened up a world of opportunities for her outside of work, even though she still works full-time and it is her side hustle.
[00:02:37.000 --> 00:02:38.360] So let's get right into it.
[00:02:38.360 --> 00:02:40.280] I can't wait for you to hear it.
[00:02:43.160 --> 00:02:47.320] All right, all right, Marina, welcome, welcome to the guest chair.
[00:02:47.320 --> 00:02:48.520] Thank you so much, Nikayla.
[00:02:48.520 --> 00:02:50.120] I'm so happy to be here.
[00:02:50.440 --> 00:02:52.600] You know, I'm so happy to have you here.
[00:02:52.600 --> 00:03:04.200] If you can't tell already by the pre-show convo and my big smile, you guys, Marina is a member of my podcast, Mogul's Group Coaching Program, as I mentioned in her bio.
[00:03:04.200 --> 00:03:14.520] And it has just been truly a pleasure and an honor to work with you, to learn more about the mission of your show and just to help you grow it and grow the impact of your platform.
[00:03:14.520 --> 00:03:17.960] So I am really, really looking forward to this conversation.
[00:03:17.960 --> 00:03:19.800] So let's jump right into it.
[00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:23.160] First of all, you were born in India, right?
[00:03:23.160 --> 00:03:27.720] Raised and educated in Australia, now based in LA.
[00:03:28.040 --> 00:03:32.920] Tell us about that whole journey and how that journey came to be.
[00:03:32.920 --> 00:03:33.400] Sure.
[00:03:33.400 --> 00:03:38.520] And I think when you say it like that, it makes me feel like a citizen of the world because you are.
[00:03:39.640 --> 00:03:40.200] Yeah.
[00:03:40.680 --> 00:03:41.080] Yeah.
[00:03:41.320 --> 00:03:44.600] So I moved from India to Australia when I was just two years old.
[00:03:44.600 --> 00:03:47.120] My parents left for my father's job.
[00:03:48.160 --> 00:03:53.600] He had a job as an actuary, and I can go into that, what that is in a little bit.
[00:03:53.600 --> 00:03:54.160] Yes.
[00:03:54.640 --> 00:03:57.200] But there were very few actuaries in Australia.
[00:03:57.200 --> 00:03:59.440] And he had studied in London.
[00:03:59.440 --> 00:04:07.280] And some colleagues had come to India and asked him if he would consider moving to Australia with a little baby.
[00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:10.720] And so that's how I ended up in Australia where I grew up.
[00:04:10.720 --> 00:04:15.120] I went to school, I went to college, and I even started working.
[00:04:15.120 --> 00:04:18.320] And then I met my husband who grew up in LA.
[00:04:18.320 --> 00:04:19.760] And that's when I moved to LA.
[00:04:19.760 --> 00:04:21.760] And I've been here ever since.
[00:04:21.760 --> 00:04:23.280] It's crazy.
[00:04:23.520 --> 00:04:24.560] Why were you in LA before?
[00:04:24.800 --> 00:04:25.840] I was on a holiday.
[00:04:25.840 --> 00:04:30.000] On a holiday, I'd taken five weeks off work to travel around the States.
[00:04:30.400 --> 00:04:32.080] That is so cool.
[00:04:32.080 --> 00:04:33.920] And so you fell in love.
[00:04:33.920 --> 00:04:37.200] And was it a long-distance relationship for a while or you just moved?
[00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:38.800] It was a long time, a long time.
[00:04:38.800 --> 00:04:40.320] It was three years before I moved.
[00:04:40.320 --> 00:04:43.040] It's hard to move from a city like Sydney.
[00:04:43.040 --> 00:04:43.680] So.
[00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:45.440] So now you moved to LA.
[00:04:45.440 --> 00:04:51.200] And at that point, were you trying to follow in your dad's footsteps and be an actuary yourself?
[00:04:51.200 --> 00:04:53.120] So I had become an actuary.
[00:04:53.120 --> 00:04:56.800] And just for those listening, not everyone has really heard of what an actuary is.
[00:04:56.800 --> 00:05:07.680] And an actuary is a financial professional that specializes in risk and the valuation of future probabilities, most often pertaining to insurance and pension plans.
[00:05:07.680 --> 00:05:09.120] So that was my background.
[00:05:09.120 --> 00:05:14.240] But I had very early on established an interest in the investment area.
[00:05:14.240 --> 00:05:19.200] So I was working in investments, and that's what I continued to do when I came to the States.
[00:05:19.200 --> 00:05:20.800] That's so unique of a path.
[00:05:20.800 --> 00:05:21.200] You're right.
[00:05:21.200 --> 00:05:24.960] Not everyone has heard of an actuary, especially at such a young age.
[00:05:24.960 --> 00:05:31.800] I remember distinctly the first time I heard about it was in college because there was just this classmate of mine who was just obsessed with becoming one.
[00:05:31.960 --> 00:05:36.920] And I'm like, how do you have such a very specific job in mind?
[00:05:36.920 --> 00:05:38.840] Like that I've never heard of, right?
[00:05:38.840 --> 00:05:47.400] So for you to be exposed to that at such a young age and exposed to these financial concepts at such a young age is just amazing.
[00:05:47.560 --> 00:05:50.360] What a tremendous advantage, right?
[00:05:50.680 --> 00:05:55.400] Did you actually like the topic or were you kind of just following footsteps?
[00:05:55.400 --> 00:05:57.880] Do you feel like it was a real interest?
[00:05:58.200 --> 00:06:01.240] I would say it was not a real interest.
[00:06:01.400 --> 00:06:08.280] I was following to some extent in footsteps, but I knew it was something fantastic that would give me a lot of opportunities.
[00:06:08.280 --> 00:06:12.600] And there are four main tracks, and one of those tracks is investments.
[00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:14.920] And that I learned to love.
[00:06:14.920 --> 00:06:18.120] So in that respect, I found my way through that.
[00:06:18.440 --> 00:06:19.880] There are a lot of exams.
[00:06:20.200 --> 00:06:27.800] It took me many, many years, probably more than most people to qualify, probably close to 10 years by the time I'd finished my college and everything.
[00:06:28.200 --> 00:06:31.080] So yeah, you have to be quite dedicated.
[00:06:31.240 --> 00:06:32.280] Lots of opportunity.
[00:06:32.600 --> 00:06:38.200] Anyone listening who wants to become an actuary, highly recommend you look further into it.
[00:06:38.200 --> 00:06:48.120] So then, you know, further in your career, it feels like you started developing this urge to not only do, but also use your voice to educate.
[00:06:48.120 --> 00:06:50.760] When did you start to feel that calling?
[00:06:50.760 --> 00:06:52.680] Yes, that was much later.
[00:06:52.680 --> 00:06:56.120] So I now fortunately have three kids of my own.
[00:06:56.440 --> 00:06:58.840] They're all in high school and college now.
[00:06:59.080 --> 00:07:07.080] But a few years ago, I was teaching my daughter's scout troupe this merit badge called personal management.
[00:07:07.080 --> 00:07:13.800] And personal management is essentially personal financial planning plus personal time planning.
[00:07:13.800 --> 00:07:15.000] So a combination of the two.
[00:07:15.600 --> 00:07:16.800] And I had a lot of fun.
[00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:19.760] And these kids were like 12 to 14 years old.
[00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:22.640] And it was amazing how quickly they picked up these concepts.
[00:07:22.640 --> 00:07:24.960] And these were some fairly sophisticated concepts.
[00:07:24.960 --> 00:07:33.520] So we were teaching them like compound interest, which most kids learn in school, with application of that, what it means to their future wealth building.
[00:07:33.760 --> 00:07:42.000] I actually played a game called the Stock Market Game, which is a real live online trading program with $100,000 notional portfolio.
[00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:45.600] And they picked that up and it was lots of fun.
[00:07:45.600 --> 00:07:52.720] But what happened was that their mothers started coming to me and saying, Hey, we wish we knew this stuff.
[00:07:52.720 --> 00:07:53.680] I'm like, really?
[00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:56.960] And it seemed like I was teaching fairly basic concepts.
[00:07:56.960 --> 00:08:09.680] And then I realized that we really have a major problem when it comes to women and their confidence in being able to navigate their own finances, however much at a basic level.
[00:08:10.320 --> 00:08:14.960] And so that's when it struck me and I started to research the topic.
[00:08:14.960 --> 00:08:17.840] After you started to research, then what did you do?
[00:08:17.840 --> 00:08:20.160] Like, where did you want it to go from there?
[00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:23.600] So then it was right in the middle of the pandemic.
[00:08:23.600 --> 00:08:26.240] And I had had some experience with broadcasting.
[00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:32.880] So in Sydney, where I grew up, I had my own radio show for about four years on a community radio station.
[00:08:32.880 --> 00:08:35.440] It was Sydney's first multicultural community station.
[00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:42.480] So I had actually learned to be in a broadcasting studio to speak and to record and all those kind of things.
[00:08:42.480 --> 00:08:43.280] And I loved it.
[00:08:43.280 --> 00:08:44.160] I absolutely loved it.
[00:08:44.160 --> 00:08:48.160] But after I'd come to the States, I hadn't explored that to any extent.
[00:08:48.160 --> 00:08:51.680] And then I suddenly heard about this thing called podcast.
[00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:56.560] And I thought, wow, I could actually have my own radio station.
[00:08:56.560 --> 00:08:58.680] That's pretty much what it is.
[00:09:00.840 --> 00:09:02.040] I relate to you on that.
[00:08:58.080 --> 00:09:04.520] I remember like, this is like the TV show I've always wanted.
[00:09:04.680 --> 00:09:07.560] Or when I was younger, I wanted to be on.
[00:09:08.840 --> 00:09:09.640] Right.
[00:09:09.640 --> 00:09:16.840] So, and then I heard you speaking on another podcast, and I learned that you were offering a course.
[00:09:16.840 --> 00:09:21.480] And from that, I realized it wasn't exactly one-to-one with broadcasting.
[00:09:21.480 --> 00:09:25.720] I had to learn quite a bit more, although your skills were very helpful.
[00:09:25.720 --> 00:09:27.080] So that's what happened.
[00:09:27.080 --> 00:09:33.000] And then I thought, well, I can, I really wanted women to hear other women talking about money and finance.
[00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:43.160] So it was just a very natural thing to do because I also got to learn that many families don't talk about money and finance.
[00:09:43.160 --> 00:09:47.240] And that is such a handicap if you grow up that way.
[00:09:47.240 --> 00:09:48.440] Absolutely.
[00:09:48.440 --> 00:09:52.440] I'm so glad that you decided to start your show.
[00:09:52.440 --> 00:10:09.480] But for many people who have a desire just to educate people more about something they know about that they feel like other people should know about or just talk about something that they feel should be talked about, they have that inkling, yet they don't actually start.
[00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:11.480] What do you think made you start?
[00:10:11.480 --> 00:10:16.040] Even though you have this esteemed career, you're busy with three kids.
[00:10:16.040 --> 00:10:17.480] What made you actually start?
[00:10:17.800 --> 00:10:21.320] You know, I think it's just the urge to create something.
[00:10:21.320 --> 00:10:23.160] I think that is just innate.
[00:10:23.160 --> 00:10:28.600] And I think a lot of people have that, but they just don't feel powerful enough to enact on it.
[00:10:28.600 --> 00:10:30.120] And it took me a long time.
[00:10:30.920 --> 00:10:35.800] I keep laughing and I tell people, and I recommend your course to everyone who asks me about podcasting.
[00:10:35.800 --> 00:10:40.200] But I mean, it's an eight-week course, Nikayla, and you ostensibly say you can launch it in eight weeks.
[00:10:40.200 --> 00:10:41.880] And it took me a year and a half.
[00:10:41.880 --> 00:10:49.920] And it was all because of my courage just to get, it wasn't, it wasn't like taking this, the steps are eight weeks worth of steps.
[00:10:50.320 --> 00:10:53.840] So I think getting out of your own way, getting out of your head.
[00:10:53.840 --> 00:10:54.640] Yeah.
[00:10:54.640 --> 00:10:55.200] So.
[00:10:55.200 --> 00:10:59.360] And that is the biggest hurdle that I find that people need to overcome.
[00:10:59.360 --> 00:11:05.040] I can, I can show you everything, but I can't help you get out your head.
[00:11:05.040 --> 00:11:05.680] Right.
[00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:12.960] Like, I'm trying and, you know, researching as many methods as I can to help people get over that mental hurdle.
[00:11:12.960 --> 00:11:15.840] But well, I think you sort of have.
[00:11:15.840 --> 00:11:17.680] And I think you touch on a lot of great points.
[00:11:17.680 --> 00:11:23.040] And something that really resonated with me was, you know, done is better than perfect.
[00:11:23.040 --> 00:11:33.520] And then I read maybe, maybe from your work or somewhere else, that there are on people's hard drives, there are like millions or hundreds of thousands of episodes that have been recorded and not released.
[00:11:33.520 --> 00:11:35.760] And that's just terrible.
[00:11:36.640 --> 00:11:42.240] So people like look at it to edit it and they're just like, I'm just going to, this whole thing is horrible.
[00:11:42.640 --> 00:11:43.120] Yeah.
[00:11:43.440 --> 00:11:44.400] It is scary.
[00:11:44.400 --> 00:11:54.160] So I think knowing that there's nothing to fear about fear itself, really, because really, it's all in your own mind how people are going to react.
[00:11:54.160 --> 00:11:58.640] And more often than not, they're actually going to react very favorably with all the flaws.
[00:11:58.640 --> 00:12:03.120] I mean, when you listen to your, no one likes to listen to their own voice, all those things.
[00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:04.400] But people aren't looking for that.
[00:12:04.400 --> 00:12:06.880] They're looking for ideas, inspiration.
[00:12:06.880 --> 00:12:09.520] And it's not about you in a way, really.
[00:12:09.520 --> 00:12:10.400] It's everything.
[00:12:10.400 --> 00:12:13.280] Like you literally, these are all the things we talk about, right?
[00:12:13.280 --> 00:12:17.520] Like we, we, when you join podcast moguls, like it started as a course.
[00:12:17.520 --> 00:12:22.080] Now it's, I position it more as a group coaching membership.
[00:12:22.080 --> 00:12:33.240] You know, you have the course, which are like your on-demand skills, but because we spend so much time together in our monthly calls, and I never turn anyone away once you join, you have lifetime access.
[00:12:29.840 --> 00:12:36.680] It's more about, you know, it's almost like we do have a therapy session.
[00:12:36.840 --> 00:12:43.480] We have, we talk about practical things, but it's also that check-in affirmation of like, you are enough.
[00:12:43.480 --> 00:12:44.840] This is bigger than you.
[00:12:44.840 --> 00:12:49.160] Whatever you've been called to podcast about, it's actually something you need to do.
[00:12:49.160 --> 00:12:51.000] So it's not about you anymore.
[00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:53.560] So you just need to get to doing it.
[00:12:53.560 --> 00:12:57.480] And then, yeah, three, it's like, no one cares.
[00:12:57.480 --> 00:12:59.560] No one cares what your setup is.
[00:12:59.560 --> 00:13:02.200] They're tuning in to hear the message.
[00:13:02.200 --> 00:13:03.800] They're tuning into the conversation.
[00:13:03.800 --> 00:13:09.080] If the conversation is good, if the information is good, that is what they're going to take away.
[00:13:09.080 --> 00:13:14.520] Not like, oh, that you said 25 ums or we heard your cat in the background.
[00:13:14.840 --> 00:13:23.720] You know, like that's not what they're going to take away from it if they're truly engaged in the conversation and the information.
[00:13:23.720 --> 00:13:24.280] Exactly.
[00:13:24.280 --> 00:13:28.040] And I really do appreciate the aspect of community.
[00:13:28.360 --> 00:13:33.240] As you know, I try to join in whenever I can, even now, after a few years.
[00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:38.200] And I still, I mean, there's still so many questions that can be answered by you and the community.
[00:13:38.200 --> 00:13:42.120] So that is a very valuable aspect of what you're doing.
[00:13:48.840 --> 00:13:51.720] So let's talk a little bit more too about your process.
[00:13:51.720 --> 00:13:54.680] Now, your show is called Banking on Girls.
[00:13:54.680 --> 00:13:57.960] Was that the original title, or what made you want to title it?
[00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:00.440] No, it was not.
[00:14:00.760 --> 00:14:05.240] I had another title, which that itself took me a year to like settle on.
[00:14:05.560 --> 00:14:08.760] And I applied for a trademark.
[00:14:09.080 --> 00:14:16.320] And there's a 90-day period after the trademark is sort of put out into the world where people can object.
[00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:20.560] And a large financial firm on the last day objected.
[00:14:22.160 --> 00:14:23.120] Yes.
[00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:23.600] Yes.
[00:14:24.800 --> 00:14:26.960] It was like they waited for us.
[00:14:27.280 --> 00:14:30.800] And it was because they had one similar word.
[00:14:31.680 --> 00:14:38.880] But as my attorney said, like, I'm not going to spend my time fighting a large financial firm, not necessary.
[00:14:38.880 --> 00:14:43.040] And it turned out to be the best thing ever because then I had to think again.
[00:14:43.040 --> 00:14:46.960] And honestly, this title is way better than what I had before.
[00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:52.720] What made you want to, like, during your journey, join Podcast Mogul specifically?
[00:14:52.720 --> 00:14:57.840] Yeah, I think I realized I needed to, I needed to learn more.
[00:14:58.160 --> 00:15:01.680] I realized I didn't really understand podcasting.
[00:15:01.680 --> 00:15:04.880] I'd never listened to one until I heard the one that you were on, I don't think.
[00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:06.400] So I hadn't joined that.
[00:15:06.400 --> 00:15:09.360] I hadn't joined that sort of movement.
[00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:11.280] And I found that all fascinating.
[00:15:11.760 --> 00:15:19.200] So, and I wanted to build something for myself outside, you know, what I had built in my regular career.
[00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:20.000] Of course.
[00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:22.160] It is nice to have something for yourself, isn't it?
[00:15:22.160 --> 00:15:24.320] Just like, this is something really nice.
[00:15:24.560 --> 00:15:25.520] Yeah, it's mine.
[00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:30.240] So you named it Banking on Girls.
[00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:30.800] I did.
[00:15:30.800 --> 00:15:36.080] And I remember one of the things when you joined that we talked about a lot was the whole audience piece.
[00:15:36.080 --> 00:15:39.280] Because you know, that's something we spend a lot of time on as well.
[00:15:39.280 --> 00:15:47.760] Like you're a perfect listener, truly understanding who you're talking to and not making it this broad, like women interested in learning financial concepts.
[00:15:47.760 --> 00:15:50.240] Like, okay, what kind of woman?
[00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:51.680] What's her name?
[00:15:51.680 --> 00:15:53.920] But then also the girls' piece, right?
[00:15:53.920 --> 00:16:00.680] So it's like you have information for girls, but then people tend to listen to podcasts generationally.
[00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:07.720] So if you're outside of the generation that you're targeting, you have to really think about, is this really my target?
[00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:09.320] So what was that process?
[00:16:09.320 --> 00:16:09.880] Yes.
[00:16:09.880 --> 00:16:20.600] So that is one very valuable aspect of the work you did with us is zoning in on your perfect listener, which was not a concept I understood from broadcasting.
[00:16:20.600 --> 00:16:25.480] And one thing I remember very clearly, you said that this is narrow casting, not broadcasting.
[00:16:25.480 --> 00:16:29.400] And then I realized that I need to approach this whole thing completely differently.
[00:16:29.720 --> 00:16:39.320] So I did what you said to do, which was to interview like 10 friends and figure out like what their concerns are around the topic and that kind of thing.
[00:16:39.320 --> 00:16:42.600] And then I realized that my perfect listener is really a mother.
[00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:45.320] It's a mother of someone raising girls.
[00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:56.600] And of course, everything we say applies to fathers and boys, but the financial literacy market is very prevalent, and there's a lot of financial literacy information out there.
[00:16:56.600 --> 00:17:01.080] But there really isn't anything that hones in, particularly on mothers and daughters.
[00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:05.640] So that seemed like a really good way to narrow down the perfect listener.
[00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:06.280] I love that.
[00:17:06.280 --> 00:17:20.440] I love that so much because if you're thinking about historically how a lot of women have been brainwashed into feeling less confident around money, and then you think about these women having children, and we don't want that to be passed down.
[00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:23.480] So we have to intercede in that relationship.
[00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:30.040] We have to really get in there and give the mom confidence, but also give the daughter that confidence from the start.
[00:17:30.040 --> 00:17:31.640] So you hit the nail on the head.
[00:17:31.640 --> 00:17:35.400] So there is a, I'm sure you're aware, there's there's a gender wealth gap.
[00:17:35.400 --> 00:17:38.520] That gender wealth gap is about 25% worldwide.
[00:17:38.520 --> 00:17:40.720] It's in just about every country in the world.
[00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:42.520] It doesn't matter which country.
[00:17:43.080 --> 00:17:56.160] It varies by level though, which means essentially the 75%, 25% gap means that women after a lifetime of working accumulate only about 75% that men do.
[00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:59.120] And there are many reasons for that, many, many reasons.
[00:17:59.520 --> 00:18:15.280] One is the structure of retirement programs around the world, how they're structured, unequal career trajectories between men and women because women often take breaks to be caregivers for both older and younger people in their lives.
[00:18:15.760 --> 00:18:17.840] You know about the gender pay gap that exists.
[00:18:17.840 --> 00:18:23.120] So then you're saving, you're saving smaller amounts every month just because of that.
[00:18:23.360 --> 00:18:25.360] And then there's longevity risk.
[00:18:25.360 --> 00:18:27.680] Women live longer, so they need more money.
[00:18:27.680 --> 00:18:34.320] But what I zeroed in was they have lower financial literacy and they also have lower confidence.
[00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:39.520] So that's the piece I'm trying to help solve.
[00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:44.080] And your work is so necessary, so vital.
[00:18:44.080 --> 00:19:02.480] And as you were listening, all those things, I just remember seeing a guy friend of mine, friend, acquaintance, classmate that went to the same college as me post one time that, you know, people talk about the gender pay gap, but it's not really accurate because women take time off to have babies.
[00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:05.440] And if you're out of the workforce, of course, you'll be earning less.
[00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:10.720] And it was just a whole bunch of garbage that I'm like, is this how you've rationalized it in your mind?
[00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:13.600] So like, and this is a man who has a wife with multiple kids.
[00:19:13.600 --> 00:19:19.840] So it's like, so it's like we were taking vacation or something, and like now we should be penalized.
[00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:20.960] Yeah.
[00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:22.760] I mean, the nation.
[00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:26.800] I mean, people have to have babies.
[00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:29.200] But they have to come out somehow.
[00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:30.280] And this is how they come out.
[00:19:30.280 --> 00:19:30.760] Yeah.
[00:19:30.760 --> 00:19:32.600] And I mean, it's so important.
[00:19:32.600 --> 00:19:34.280] It's not just about making money.
[00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:36.360] And that's where the call to action is.
[00:19:36.520 --> 00:19:43.960] It's not like this is not about getting rich, although you can if you start early, which is also really empowering for girls to know that.
[00:19:44.280 --> 00:19:46.360] But it's about independence.
[00:19:46.360 --> 00:19:50.680] It's a bit about being able to leave an abusive relationship if you have to.
[00:19:50.680 --> 00:19:53.640] That's a huge problem in many countries around the world.
[00:19:53.640 --> 00:19:57.800] It's being able to manage after the death or separation from a partner.
[00:19:57.800 --> 00:20:02.120] That's another issue that I talk about regularly with my guests.
[00:20:02.840 --> 00:20:04.680] So it's important.
[00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:05.960] It's so important.
[00:20:05.960 --> 00:20:14.280] And once you started the podcast, first of all, like, how did you approach it from your perspective to make it manageable for you?
[00:20:14.280 --> 00:20:18.200] Were you doing episodes once a week, every couple weeks?
[00:20:18.200 --> 00:20:20.680] Like, how did you fit it into your busy life?
[00:20:20.680 --> 00:20:27.560] Yeah, I started with every two weeks, and I'm still at the every two weeks, other than one long break that I had this year.
[00:20:27.960 --> 00:20:32.200] So that, and I think maybe even a month might be more manageable.
[00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:36.040] But I know you had said once you start, you need to keep that cadence.
[00:20:36.040 --> 00:20:40.760] And so one week would not have been as every week would not have been sustainable for me.
[00:20:40.760 --> 00:20:41.960] So, yes, yes.
[00:20:42.200 --> 00:21:04.360] And it's so important to know what's sustainable to you because it's more important that you are able to show up in a consistent rhythm versus like you said, consistent cadence versus like one month, then coming back four months later, and also communicating with your audience, saying you can expect to hear from me on these days every month.
[00:21:04.360 --> 00:21:10.200] And another thing that people don't realize is you can have repeats like when you need a break.
[00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:14.960] Okay, like you can take a break, and not everyone has heard every single episode.
[00:21:14.280 --> 00:21:16.480] So bring back an episode.
[00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:18.720] Don't just go MIA and disappear.
[00:21:14.680 --> 00:21:21.360] Like replay something just like TV does.
[00:21:21.520 --> 00:21:23.200] Like have your rewinds.
[00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:24.160] Yeah, that's a good tip.
[00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:26.960] And as you said, like no one's listened to all your episodes.
[00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:31.760] You might think they are, but you know, that they will come across something new if you repost.
[00:21:32.080 --> 00:21:32.640] Oh, yeah.
[00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:35.520] Every single time I re-release an episode, people are like, oh my God.
[00:21:35.520 --> 00:21:37.840] Like, no, I need to have this backlit.
[00:21:37.840 --> 00:21:38.560] Okay, good.
[00:21:38.560 --> 00:21:40.080] Cause I didn't have it this week.
[00:21:40.080 --> 00:21:43.680] All right, I didn't have it in me to come up with something new.
[00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:45.680] Or maybe I had to cancel a guest, right?
[00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:47.600] So that's important.
[00:21:47.600 --> 00:21:51.120] Now, you mentioned topics that you talk about regularly.
[00:21:51.120 --> 00:21:52.880] So, how do you approach the content?
[00:21:52.880 --> 00:21:54.560] Now we know who your audience is.
[00:21:54.560 --> 00:22:00.160] How do you approach your themes and what episode you'll do every other week?
[00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:01.040] Yes.
[00:22:01.360 --> 00:22:08.560] So that has been, I've been fortunate that way because one of my biggest concerns/slash worries was, wow, will I have enough content?
[00:22:08.560 --> 00:22:10.880] And will I be able to keep thinking of ideas?
[00:22:11.120 --> 00:22:12.480] And so I just started.
[00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:19.200] I think you had recommended that make sure you have three episodes ready to go when you launch and 10 thought about.
[00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:21.280] So that's what I started with.
[00:22:21.280 --> 00:22:25.360] And the first three were just people I knew who were willing to be on that podcast.
[00:22:25.360 --> 00:22:27.200] So I'm so grateful for that.
[00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:30.880] And from there, people started recommending other people.
[00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:33.040] And then I started researching the topic.
[00:22:33.040 --> 00:22:38.720] And that's the other thing I think is really fascinating: how I started is not how I am now.
[00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:43.840] I myself have learned so much, learning so much from the people I've interviewed.
[00:22:43.840 --> 00:22:51.040] And my journey is really becoming more and more familiar with this topic and what the issues are around the world.
[00:22:56.640 --> 00:22:58.200] I'm just so proud of you.
[00:22:57.680 --> 00:22:58.760] I am.
[00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:02.840] I'm just so proud of how it's taken on a life of its own.
[00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:09.160] And that to me is something that's so beautiful about building a platform, period, that it takes on a life of its own.
[00:23:09.160 --> 00:23:22.600] Right now, all of a sudden, people are pitching you or reaching out to have to suggest a guest because your platform is important and they want you to talk to this person, or this person wants to be on it because they recognize you have an audience.
[00:23:22.600 --> 00:23:24.040] So, what has that been like?
[00:23:24.040 --> 00:23:28.280] Starting to realize that, oh my God, I'm building something bigger than myself.
[00:23:28.280 --> 00:23:29.640] That's really exciting.
[00:23:30.440 --> 00:23:33.000] Really exciting, and gives me purpose.
[00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:34.120] This sounds a bit trite.
[00:23:34.360 --> 00:23:37.720] It gives me purpose to keep going because it really is.
[00:23:38.120 --> 00:23:41.080] I mean, it's bigger than me for sure.
[00:23:41.080 --> 00:23:42.920] And it's desperately needed.
[00:23:42.920 --> 00:23:51.560] So, I'm meeting other people who have similar goals in the world and helping amplify their messages as well.
[00:23:51.560 --> 00:23:56.840] What's been one of the most surprising things that has come out of the Banking on Girls podcast?
[00:23:56.840 --> 00:23:58.040] Here it is.
[00:23:58.360 --> 00:24:05.080] Did you know that many of your financial habits and behaviors are formed by the age of seven?
[00:24:05.400 --> 00:24:08.040] No, no, so I didn't know that either.
[00:24:08.360 --> 00:24:13.480] Yeah, yes, Cambridge University did a study, and that's what it determined.
[00:24:13.480 --> 00:24:19.800] And that really changed how I, you know, I discovered this about a year, year and a half into the podcast.
[00:24:19.800 --> 00:24:22.680] I'm now at about two years, so not that long ago.
[00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:37.880] And it really made me change how I think about the topic because I learned-I mean, I learned a little-I mean, I had financially literate parents, but I didn't learn about it myself as a topic till I studied it in university and beyond.
[00:24:37.880 --> 00:24:40.280] But that really blew my mind.
[00:24:40.280 --> 00:24:47.520] And from there, I started thinking about doing like mother-daughter workshops, which I've piloted.
[00:24:47.520 --> 00:24:58.880] And I'm finding that like everybody wants this because I think people recognize, people recognize there is a need, but they don't know how to teach it or what to do.
[00:24:59.840 --> 00:25:09.600] The modern world is so complicated, and kids are being forced to reckon with this very early on, things like Apple Pay, student debt, credit cards at 18.
[00:25:10.080 --> 00:25:12.320] Can you imagine having Apple Pay in high school?
[00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:14.080] Yes, and they do.
[00:25:14.080 --> 00:25:14.720] They do.
[00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:15.200] They all do.
[00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:16.160] Super high school.
[00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:17.840] Be prepared.
[00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:24.320] So, so, and they don't, they don't see it that there's a disconnect between real money and electronic money.
[00:25:24.320 --> 00:25:28.000] And how do you teach your kids all these things and help help them?
[00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:29.440] Because they're going to need help.
[00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:33.040] They need to understand that money doesn't happen with the push of a button.
[00:25:33.840 --> 00:25:35.760] Oh my God, there's so much I love about this.
[00:25:35.760 --> 00:25:47.120] First of all, you piloting something is the whole ethos behind like podcast moguls, building a podcast that turns into a business because it's like people are like, What should I do to make money?
[00:25:47.120 --> 00:25:49.200] Well, first of all, you have to do your podcast.
[00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:52.640] You have to get to know what your audience needs, and then you got to test stuff.
[00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:54.880] Like that, that is the journey, y'all.
[00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:56.400] So you're doing exactly that.
[00:25:56.400 --> 00:26:00.400] You're piloting this and seeing, like, wait, this is a real need.
[00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:01.600] Now, what next?
[00:26:01.600 --> 00:26:03.840] That's the journey too of entrepreneurship.
[00:26:03.840 --> 00:26:05.280] It's the what next.
[00:26:05.760 --> 00:26:06.960] It's not written for you.
[00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:10.160] You're literally writing the blueprint as you go.
[00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:13.600] So now it's up to you to decide: okay, do I charge for this?
[00:26:13.600 --> 00:26:14.880] How many seats do I have?
[00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:16.720] Is it online, in person?
[00:26:16.720 --> 00:26:19.120] Is it free when there's an upgrade, right?
[00:26:19.120 --> 00:26:23.200] Like, so, you know, what are your thoughts around it so far?
[00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:25.280] Yeah, well, I've piloted it.
[00:26:25.600 --> 00:26:32.760] I've done an online version and I've done many mini versions, three or four in person.
[00:26:29.920 --> 00:26:35.960] And there is interest in a paid version.
[00:26:36.760 --> 00:26:38.680] So we'll see where that goes.
[00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:42.920] I think, as I said, there's a real need and a real market for it.
[00:26:42.920 --> 00:26:43.400] Yeah.
[00:26:43.400 --> 00:26:45.640] So these were not paid so far.
[00:26:45.640 --> 00:26:47.160] These were like free.
[00:26:47.800 --> 00:26:48.440] Yes.
[00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:50.600] Yes, essentially free.
[00:26:50.600 --> 00:26:51.160] Yeah.
[00:26:51.160 --> 00:26:54.840] I've done them as beta tests and then I've done them for charity organizations.
[00:26:55.320 --> 00:26:55.720] Okay.
[00:26:55.720 --> 00:26:56.200] Okay.
[00:26:56.840 --> 00:27:04.520] And I don't want to get you in trouble at all, but there's also, if you think about it, like opportunity kind of to do it B2B.
[00:27:04.520 --> 00:27:06.840] Like Marina, full transparency moment, right?
[00:27:06.840 --> 00:27:23.400] If I was starting over and if I had your podcast topic, I would look at this as a B2B play, not even business to consumer, not even B2C, because I would look at it as like, this is something that has interest and I could sell this, package this to financial institutions.
[00:27:23.400 --> 00:27:25.400] And what would that look like?
[00:27:25.400 --> 00:27:28.120] Again, what would that look like is up to us.
[00:27:28.120 --> 00:27:31.720] We're still developing and shaping it, but that's how I would look at it.
[00:27:31.720 --> 00:27:37.240] I wouldn't even look at it as like, oh, let me develop this course and sell it to one-on-one by one.
[00:27:38.040 --> 00:27:39.400] People to come in one by one.
[00:27:39.400 --> 00:27:40.520] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:43.880] It's like I'm going to build something for companies.
[00:27:43.880 --> 00:27:45.800] And hey, do you want to be a part of this?
[00:27:45.800 --> 00:27:47.560] Because, you know, such and such is interested.
[00:27:47.560 --> 00:27:50.200] So if you don't want it, I'm going to take it on the road to such and such.
[00:27:51.800 --> 00:27:53.720] Yeah, I mean, there are many options.
[00:27:53.720 --> 00:27:56.360] So early days, but yeah, good point.
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[00:30:48.840 --> 00:30:56.920] The other thing I love about this is a lot of times when you become a mom of a girl, especially, you start noticing things.
[00:30:56.920 --> 00:31:08.920] You start looking at the world differently and you realize a lot everything is presented and pitched to us through the lens of mommy and me shopping, mommy and me, yoga, mommy and me.
[00:31:08.920 --> 00:31:12.520] It's all these like soft lives things and not the hard life skills.
[00:31:12.520 --> 00:31:15.320] Like, can we have mommy and me financial literacy?
[00:31:15.320 --> 00:31:18.440] Can we do that as a mommy and me excursion, right?
[00:31:18.760 --> 00:31:20.040] Why do we have to go spend money?
[00:31:20.040 --> 00:31:27.080] Let's get together and like create a business, make some money, invest, all of that.
[00:31:27.080 --> 00:31:30.680] So I'm glad you're thinking about that at this point.
[00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:32.760] And I mean, it's so true.
[00:31:33.320 --> 00:31:43.160] The Girls Scouts Institute did a survey quite a few years ago now, but it found that 85 plus percent of girls look to their mothers for their financial literacy.
[00:31:43.160 --> 00:31:49.440] So, hence, I think you mentioned that as a point early on, like we have to get the mothers involved in this.
[00:31:49.600 --> 00:31:56.320] And there are so many things you can do, even at it from the age of three, you can start talking in an age-appropriate way.
[00:31:56.960 --> 00:32:14.960] Things I mentioned that your habits and behaviors are formed by age seven, but things you can do sort of before age seven, including include just like making a shopping list, and that that's like you know, prioritizing or talking about talking about the price of things that helps them with decision making.
[00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:17.840] All those things are part of financial literacy.
[00:32:17.840 --> 00:32:22.240] It's not, it's not, it's not like having some great formula that makes you wealthy.
[00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:25.280] These are just like basic concepts that can be built.
[00:32:25.280 --> 00:32:26.880] That is so true.
[00:32:26.880 --> 00:32:33.360] Like, so you're essentially, and now we're getting to like this is like a tips portion of the segment.
[00:32:33.360 --> 00:32:35.920] No, because I'm generally interested in this, right?
[00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:42.400] It's timely information, especially since it happened so early, those formative habits.
[00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:50.400] So, it's really making money a real thing in this world of AI and like Apple Pay, it's going to be for them.
[00:32:50.400 --> 00:33:01.440] It's like, no, things cost money, and money takes work, but also like you need to pay for things, you need to save.
[00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:01.840] Yes.
[00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:03.440] We have a bank.
[00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:09.680] And how do you approach those topics in a changing world where they're not using physical cash the same way?
[00:33:09.680 --> 00:33:22.160] I've heard, it's been a little while since my kids were that age, but I would pull out real money and show them real money because otherwise, the concept of money, there is no concept of money.
[00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:28.440] So, showing them money, maybe even taking them to the shops and having them, you know, buy something.
[00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:32.280] If anyone's accepting money anymore, I don't have real money anymore.
[00:33:29.920 --> 00:33:36.360] But at least at home, do that.
[00:33:36.520 --> 00:33:49.560] And you'll hear there was an episode I did with a gentleman called Greg Creed, who was the CEO of Yum Brands, which is the company that encompasses KFC, Pizza Heart, and those companies.
[00:33:49.560 --> 00:33:59.960] And in that episode, he talks about taking his three-year-old grandson out for lunch or dinner and three years old and saying, How do you think we're going to pay for this?
[00:33:59.960 --> 00:34:05.560] And really talking to him about money because it's important enough to do that.
[00:34:05.560 --> 00:34:08.440] And then it becomes a natural part of the conversation.
[00:34:08.440 --> 00:34:13.960] I think one thing that surprised me and that I learned was these families that don't talk about money.
[00:34:14.120 --> 00:34:19.240] So just if all you do is just have the conversation, then that's that's half the battle.
[00:34:19.640 --> 00:34:22.280] Don't shy away from talking about money.
[00:34:22.280 --> 00:34:23.160] Oh, I love that.
[00:34:23.400 --> 00:34:25.320] How do you think we're going to pay for this?
[00:34:25.640 --> 00:34:27.240] What does his grandson say?
[00:34:27.880 --> 00:34:29.320] I don't know.
[00:34:30.600 --> 00:34:31.640] I love that.
[00:34:31.640 --> 00:34:33.800] And you've had some phenomenal guests.
[00:34:33.800 --> 00:34:36.600] You mentioned starting with your network, which I always recommend.
[00:34:36.600 --> 00:34:40.440] But then how else did you go about it if you don't know someone?
[00:34:40.760 --> 00:34:43.640] If you don't know someone, I've asked for introductions.
[00:34:43.640 --> 00:34:49.800] And rarely I have sort of cold called and then I'll get someone to respond.
[00:34:49.800 --> 00:34:56.040] But generally, a warm introduction, as in everything, a warm introduction works much better than just reaching out.
[00:34:56.040 --> 00:34:56.520] Yeah.
[00:34:56.520 --> 00:34:56.840] Yes.
[00:34:56.840 --> 00:35:02.760] And you have a wonderful network, but also you know how to leverage to get the warm introduction.
[00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:03.800] So, I love that.
[00:35:03.800 --> 00:35:06.440] And, like I said, you've had some amazing guests.
[00:35:06.440 --> 00:35:08.760] I'm so proud of you and what you're building.
[00:35:08.760 --> 00:35:12.440] And you've also had the opportunity to speak at the United Nations.
[00:35:12.520 --> 00:35:14.280] Did that come because of the podcast?
[00:35:14.520 --> 00:35:15.360] Yes, it did.
[00:35:14.600 --> 00:35:19.600] That's the other aspect that I never expected, Nikayla.
[00:35:19.680 --> 00:35:31.200] And again, it was something you said in not in this specific instance, but in other instances, where you said, Don't be afraid to say, Hey, you have a podcast, and would you have a media pass available?
[00:35:31.520 --> 00:35:33.360] So that's a great tip.
[00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:41.280] But for the United Nations, I belong to a community that has an NGO with the United Nations, with the EcoSong Council.
[00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:47.840] And for 20 years, they've been attending the Commission on the Status of Women and other commissions at the United Nations.
[00:35:47.840 --> 00:35:56.560] And then I saw a call for participation in the United Nations Commission on the Status of Women two years ago.
[00:35:56.560 --> 00:36:00.080] And I realized, wow, I would like to do this.
[00:36:00.080 --> 00:36:05.680] And I actually have something to offer, whereas I never would have thought I did before the podcast.
[00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:10.160] And so they were kind enough to take me on as part of the team.
[00:36:10.400 --> 00:36:16.240] And we had a number of different women and girls, high school age girls, who all had different angles.
[00:36:16.240 --> 00:36:19.440] And we all spoke on a panel at the parallel event.
[00:36:19.440 --> 00:36:25.440] There's a parallel event that happens at the same time, which is open to the public just across the road at the UN Plaza.
[00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:28.960] And then we also get to attend as delegates inside the UN.
[00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:30.880] So it's fantastic.
[00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:31.840] Amazing.
[00:36:31.840 --> 00:36:33.920] Do you know how amazing that is?
[00:36:33.920 --> 00:36:37.040] Oh my God, that is incredible.
[00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:49.200] To me, that sounds incredible, but I'm curious: like, what have been just some of the top benefits for you, you know, in on this journey of having your platform right now?
[00:36:49.520 --> 00:36:59.760] I mean, the number one top benefit has been learning, and it was completely unexpected because I considered myself a financial professional 25, probably 30 years now.
[00:37:00.760 --> 00:37:10.920] And so I didn't, I thought I was going to impart knowledge and draw knowledge out of other people, but I am learning probably more than I'm imparting at this point.
[00:37:11.800 --> 00:37:22.680] When I went to the UN, I realized the issues we have, issues that women have all around the world, including women in Scandinavia, which I didn't expect.
[00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:28.200] It's such an egalitarian society, but they have real issues with the gender pay gap.
[00:37:28.200 --> 00:37:35.400] And to hear ministers from that country talking about it and addressing it is, you know, pretty eye-opening.
[00:37:40.840 --> 00:37:51.960] Do you see yourself doing any work specifically in addition to the education piece, but specifically to try to impact things like the gender pay gap?
[00:37:52.280 --> 00:37:57.880] I haven't thought in that type of a granular fashion yet.
[00:37:57.880 --> 00:38:06.600] I think I've learnt enough now that anything could like pop out and be an area of interest.
[00:38:07.080 --> 00:38:15.320] But with everything going on, I'm just kind of focused on the podcast and launching the mother-daughter workshops and attending.
[00:38:15.320 --> 00:38:28.680] I got to attend the Melkin conference, which is, it brings together thought leaders and politicians and leaders in business once a year in Los Angeles being close by.
[00:38:28.680 --> 00:38:31.960] And they were kind enough to give me a media pass.
[00:38:31.960 --> 00:38:39.640] And when you attend an event like that and you hear the sort of people speaking, then all sorts of new ideas come into your mind as well.
[00:38:40.760 --> 00:38:43.480] But right now, I'm just focused on these two things.
[00:38:43.800 --> 00:38:44.120] Okay.
[00:38:44.120 --> 00:38:47.840] And those are two incredible and important things to be focused on.
[00:38:48.400 --> 00:38:55.200] I love that you brought up the media pass thing because I sometimes forget that I recommend that, but that's another perk, right?
[00:38:55.520 --> 00:38:56.640] So I did that as well.
[00:38:56.640 --> 00:39:03.040] Like my early podcasting days, I'll reach out to a conference I want to go to and say, Hey, can I attend this press?
[00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:05.520] And people are open to it.
[00:39:05.520 --> 00:39:08.800] Like people want press coverage, people want media there.
[00:39:08.800 --> 00:39:12.960] And now, nowadays, like there's media looks like so many different things.
[00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:15.680] That's not to step on any of my journalist friend toes.
[00:39:15.680 --> 00:39:16.000] Yes.
[00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:19.520] But, you know, coverage is coverage.
[00:39:20.320 --> 00:39:24.320] So that is one of the things I don't think a lot of podcasters realize.
[00:39:24.320 --> 00:39:29.280] Like you can leverage your podcast to be in spaces that you want to be in.
[00:39:29.280 --> 00:39:29.760] Right.
[00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:37.440] And I think from the early days of when I learned broadcasting, I remember that when, you know, this was in Sydney, Australia.
[00:39:37.840 --> 00:39:41.360] When people visited Sydney, you know, I used to try and get them on my show.
[00:39:41.360 --> 00:39:43.600] And it was, it's relatively easy.
[00:39:43.600 --> 00:39:45.520] I mean, everyone wants to tell their story.
[00:39:45.520 --> 00:39:47.440] Everyone wants a little coverage, right?
[00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:48.640] So, yes.
[00:39:49.680 --> 00:39:58.720] Now you are in this space where you are developing a platform that's taken on a life of its own that's really growing, but you also work full-time.
[00:39:59.120 --> 00:40:10.400] How have you approached this so that your job doesn't get concerned or doesn't think anything is happening on the side?
[00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:11.360] Yes.
[00:40:11.760 --> 00:40:15.600] So that was a big concern of mine before I started.
[00:40:16.400 --> 00:40:25.360] I have a lot of rules and regulations around what I do, and I needed to make sure everything was done, you know, completely properly.
[00:40:25.360 --> 00:40:34.760] And, you know, I simply had a conversation with my work, the compliance department, and they were very, very supportive.
[00:40:35.080 --> 00:40:39.720] And so I spent a lot of time worrying about that.
[00:40:40.360 --> 00:40:41.800] And I shouldn't have.
[00:40:41.880 --> 00:40:44.120] So, you know, honesty is always the best policy.
[00:40:44.760 --> 00:40:48.200] There's no point trying to do a podcast sort of quietly.
[00:40:50.360 --> 00:40:55.160] So, and then, of course, there are guidelines and rules around that.
[00:40:55.160 --> 00:41:01.880] I can't, there are certain people I can't have on my show that would be great guests, but I just can't.
[00:41:01.880 --> 00:41:05.960] And I just have to accept that and work within those constraints.
[00:41:05.960 --> 00:41:11.320] But I seem to have plenty of other avenues for material and information.
[00:41:11.880 --> 00:41:14.200] Honesty truly is the best policy.
[00:41:14.200 --> 00:41:18.440] If you can, you know, put it on your resume if you are looking.
[00:41:18.440 --> 00:41:28.840] And if you already, once you start, yeah, check out your employee handbook and talk with the office, the HR office, the compliance offices.
[00:41:28.840 --> 00:41:38.680] I know it feels like you're going to, you know, there are situations where it is like ask for forgiveness, not for permission, but you have to know your situation best.
[00:41:38.680 --> 00:41:47.480] But most times I would recommend going the permission route, aka being honest and upfront and think about how you're positioning it too.
[00:41:47.480 --> 00:41:53.560] If you're like, hey, I'm doing this podcast that might be against company rules, they're going to be like, okay, no, you can't do it.
[00:41:53.880 --> 00:42:01.000] But if you're like, hey, I have this side project, it's completely harmless, but I just wanted to bring it to you.
[00:42:01.240 --> 00:42:04.360] Kind of like, you know, how you finesse it as well.
[00:42:04.680 --> 00:42:04.920] Exactly.
[00:42:05.240 --> 00:42:12.040] Being honest, but you are making sure you position it as not a threat and not taking away from what you've said there.
[00:42:12.680 --> 00:42:14.120] And quite the opposite.
[00:42:14.120 --> 00:42:22.880] So, I think it's a huge advantage to my professional circles and the place I work.
[00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:26.000] I think it's a real positive in all directions.
[00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:28.640] And a lot of them have said they're really proud of me.
[00:42:28.640 --> 00:42:34.240] So, I'm really happy that I took courage into my hands and started.
[00:42:34.240 --> 00:42:38.240] Why do you think your podcast is actually a benefit to the place you work?
[00:42:38.240 --> 00:42:40.080] Well, I think, I mean, it's a great cause.
[00:42:40.080 --> 00:42:42.560] I mean, it's a very important cause.
[00:42:42.560 --> 00:42:56.720] I mean, it's an important problem that needs to be dealt with, first understood, dealt with, and solved, hopefully, by society.
[00:42:56.960 --> 00:43:03.840] People, there's an awareness level that people may not have had that I didn't have even until I went on this journey.
[00:43:03.840 --> 00:43:11.040] So, part of what I do in my Outra work is trying to help people save for retirement.
[00:43:11.040 --> 00:43:16.160] So, you know, this is very sympathetic with that goal as well.
[00:43:16.160 --> 00:43:21.040] And how did you get over not wanting to post on LinkedIn at first?
[00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:24.000] Your company's approval.
[00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:28.800] It can feel strange at first, like everyone's in my business.
[00:43:28.800 --> 00:43:30.160] How did you get over that?
[00:43:30.160 --> 00:43:31.280] I hated it, Nicola.
[00:43:31.280 --> 00:43:34.720] And I still, I mean, social media is not my friend.
[00:43:35.360 --> 00:43:38.000] Well, it may be my friend, but I'm not its friend.
[00:43:39.120 --> 00:43:40.640] So that was just a discipline.
[00:43:40.640 --> 00:43:47.040] And that was again something you helped a lot with, like, you know, weekly daily posting or posting around daily posting, forget it.
[00:43:47.040 --> 00:43:48.560] Yet, I'm not at that level.
[00:43:48.960 --> 00:43:57.840] But posting around the podcast, I realized very quickly that no one is actually like, forget about being worried about anyone hearing it.
[00:43:57.840 --> 00:44:01.400] Like, no one's going to listen to it if you don't post, right?
[00:43:59.840 --> 00:44:03.640] No one knows what you dropped on your PC.
[00:44:06.840 --> 00:44:09.080] Yeah, tell them over and over again.
[00:44:09.080 --> 00:44:10.120] Exactly.
[00:44:11.400 --> 00:44:12.920] So that was it.
[00:44:12.920 --> 00:44:15.960] Just having, just understanding that something I needed to do.
[00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:18.840] And after I had done a few, then I realized this isn't so bad.
[00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:24.280] I got a lot of support, a lot of support by way of likes.
[00:44:25.240 --> 00:44:28.360] And so then I realized this is, this is a good thing.
[00:44:28.360 --> 00:44:29.800] Yes, it is.
[00:44:29.800 --> 00:44:37.960] And speaking of that, when it comes to marketing, I know that has been one of the learning curves, the steepest learning curves for you.
[00:44:38.120 --> 00:44:40.120] It's not something that you enjoy doing.
[00:44:40.120 --> 00:44:46.120] And that's always tough when you don't enjoy a portion of your business, but one that's so needed to grow it.
[00:44:46.520 --> 00:44:51.800] So, you know, what has been your key learnings that's really helped you with that portion of it?
[00:44:51.800 --> 00:44:52.040] Yeah.
[00:44:52.040 --> 00:44:57.480] First one is getting over the fear of marketing.
[00:44:58.120 --> 00:45:01.800] I think something that that's important to understand is it's not really marketing.
[00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:04.200] Like you have to tell people about what you're doing.
[00:45:04.200 --> 00:45:09.880] So if you look at it in that lens, it doesn't seem as much like marketing.
[00:45:10.200 --> 00:45:13.240] And then just the discipline of like, you just have to do this every time.
[00:45:13.240 --> 00:45:16.920] Every time at least you drop an episode, you have to do a few posts around it.
[00:45:16.920 --> 00:45:21.400] So yeah, that's, you know, something I hammer home.
[00:45:21.400 --> 00:45:24.360] It's just kind of like, it's just part of the process.
[00:45:24.360 --> 00:45:30.120] Like every single time you treat it like it is, or at least, okay, I won't act like I'm perfect.
[00:45:30.120 --> 00:45:37.880] Like the times that I don't promote an episode, I see the difference between those times and the times where I promote it like it's my very first episode.
[00:45:37.880 --> 00:45:46.560] Each time as a podcaster, the biggest discipline you need is to train yourself to keep promoting your episodes as if it's their first episode.
[00:45:46.560 --> 00:45:48.080] You know how everyone gets so excited.
[00:45:48.080 --> 00:45:50.320] Oh, I got a new podcast out.
[00:45:50.320 --> 00:45:52.080] And then you just think people are going to listen.
[00:45:52.080 --> 00:45:54.720] No, no, that's not how it works.
[00:45:54.720 --> 00:45:55.280] Right.
[00:45:55.280 --> 00:45:56.960] And it's very humbling.
[00:45:56.960 --> 00:45:57.520] It is.
[00:45:57.520 --> 00:45:58.000] It is.
[00:45:58.000 --> 00:46:02.480] And then the other thing is they're not all seeing, as you had said, they're not all seeing your posts.
[00:46:02.480 --> 00:46:06.240] So like you have to, you have to keep posting because of the algorithms and all that.
[00:46:06.400 --> 00:46:06.800] Yes.
[00:46:07.040 --> 00:46:14.400] Or just when they might have seen it the first day you posted it, but then they might not go on a particular social media platform that day, right?
[00:46:14.400 --> 00:46:15.680] Or in that hour.
[00:46:15.680 --> 00:46:17.040] So that's another thing too.
[00:46:17.040 --> 00:46:19.760] Like people are just on there at different times.
[00:46:19.760 --> 00:46:20.240] Right.
[00:46:20.240 --> 00:46:26.960] And you have to get over the fact that you feel like you are overloading them with information because they're probably not even seeing it.
[00:46:26.960 --> 00:46:29.120] So that's another hurdle to get over.
[00:46:29.360 --> 00:46:29.920] Yeah.
[00:46:29.920 --> 00:46:32.720] And I think I still deal with that with emails, right?
[00:46:32.720 --> 00:46:34.960] I'm like, oh my God, I have to email about this again.
[00:46:34.960 --> 00:46:36.000] Press send.
[00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:38.560] But then when I look at the unsubscribes, right?
[00:46:38.560 --> 00:46:40.640] Like unsubscribes should happen every time.
[00:46:40.640 --> 00:46:43.360] Like that's another thing you should train your brain.
[00:46:43.360 --> 00:46:50.320] Like if you think that your list is supposed to just, everyone's supposed to stay on your list like that, it's actually not that way.
[00:46:50.320 --> 00:46:50.720] Right.
[00:46:50.720 --> 00:46:56.240] But when you look at the rate of unsubscribes, I'm like, oh my God, I have this many people and only this many people unsubscribe with that email.
[00:46:56.240 --> 00:46:58.240] Like, I think it's worth sending.
[00:46:58.640 --> 00:47:02.320] I'm like, I said it again and nobody minded.
[00:47:03.200 --> 00:47:04.800] Barely anyone left.
[00:47:06.080 --> 00:47:08.160] So that's like the proof.
[00:47:08.160 --> 00:47:13.280] Like when you really look at numbers, you can affirm yourself in your decisions.
[00:47:13.280 --> 00:47:15.360] Like, okay, this only got this many impressions.
[00:47:15.360 --> 00:47:16.240] I need to post again.
[00:47:16.240 --> 00:47:17.600] Only this many people unsubscribed.
[00:47:17.600 --> 00:47:18.000] Okay, cool.
[00:47:18.000 --> 00:47:19.520] I'm not burning out the list.
[00:47:19.520 --> 00:47:20.640] This many people open.
[00:47:20.640 --> 00:47:21.920] This many people click.
[00:47:21.920 --> 00:47:23.760] Let's send another one.
[00:47:24.240 --> 00:47:26.560] That's how you got to think about it.
[00:47:31.080 --> 00:47:39.400] Before we jump into the lightning round, is there anything else that you want to share just about the journey so far and what you've learned, what you've enjoyed?
[00:47:40.200 --> 00:47:49.640] I'd like to thank you, Nikaleb, for making this honestly possible and sort of being there all these years, you know, in the background, offering your help.
[00:47:49.960 --> 00:47:50.840] It's been amazing.
[00:47:50.840 --> 00:47:56.280] There's no possible way I could have done it if I hadn't come across your community or your course.
[00:47:56.280 --> 00:48:04.200] So, and yeah, what I can't believe is where the journey has taken me is completely different to how I started.
[00:48:04.200 --> 00:48:06.840] So, which is probably true of many things in life.
[00:48:06.840 --> 00:48:07.160] Yeah.
[00:48:08.120 --> 00:48:14.840] And speaking of that, I remember you once said that podcasting to you, podcasting has given you job security.
[00:48:14.840 --> 00:48:16.120] Do you still feel like that?
[00:48:16.120 --> 00:48:17.240] If so, why?
[00:48:17.240 --> 00:48:27.480] So, and I wouldn't say security, but it has given me a new, just sort of being on LinkedIn and having material sort of adjacent to what I'm doing.
[00:48:27.480 --> 00:48:34.040] I think it's given, I would say, a new lease of life or interest in what I'm doing.
[00:48:34.600 --> 00:48:42.680] And I think in the old days, my dad used to tell me, like, you need to write papers, like you need to, you know, those kind of academic papers in your career.
[00:48:42.680 --> 00:48:43.960] And I think everything is different now.
[00:48:43.960 --> 00:48:51.640] So I think podcasting is a really interesting way of keeping your ideas alive and keeping things new and fresh.
[00:48:51.640 --> 00:48:52.360] Oh, yes.
[00:48:52.360 --> 00:48:57.880] And just showcasing what you can do, your mind, your perspective.
[00:48:58.440 --> 00:49:03.240] Yeah, I think it really does keep you fresh in the marketplace.
[00:49:03.240 --> 00:49:06.040] Because, you know, God forbid something were to happen.
[00:49:06.040 --> 00:49:11.000] Like, it just feels like now you have so many different things you could do in life.
[00:49:11.000 --> 00:49:11.320] Yeah.
[00:49:11.320 --> 00:49:12.040] That's right.
[00:49:12.040 --> 00:49:14.440] So that's truly awesome.
[00:49:17.040 --> 00:49:19.680] So now we're going to jump into a quick lightning round.
[00:49:19.680 --> 00:49:22.560] You know, the deal, you just answer the first thing that comes to mind.
[00:49:22.560 --> 00:49:22.960] Okay.
[00:49:23.280 --> 00:49:23.920] Yeah.
[00:49:24.560 --> 00:49:25.120] Okay.
[00:49:25.440 --> 00:49:34.800] So what is a top resource that is helping you right now with your podcast and business that you can share with the Side Hustle Pro audience?
[00:49:34.800 --> 00:49:40.960] So I would say, and something took me a long time to do is the scheduling, the scheduling app.
[00:49:41.120 --> 00:49:43.040] So I think I use later.
[00:49:43.040 --> 00:49:48.720] And I would have to say, AI is like an unbelievable help in writing.
[00:49:49.120 --> 00:49:52.160] Writing and everything, like how I use it mostly.
[00:49:52.160 --> 00:49:52.640] Okay.
[00:49:52.640 --> 00:50:00.400] So now I've got it down to, okay, I've even got it down to like, here are my thoughts, write me like an episode on this.
[00:50:01.520 --> 00:50:04.080] It writes the newsletter, it writes the posts.
[00:50:04.480 --> 00:50:05.840] I can't use it straight.
[00:50:05.840 --> 00:50:14.240] I mean, I have to edit it for sure, but I've really got it down to like, and it actually came back to me and said, oh, here's a whole package for your next blog.
[00:50:14.480 --> 00:50:15.920] They called it a package.
[00:50:16.320 --> 00:50:18.320] For your next podcast.
[00:50:21.200 --> 00:50:22.240] I love it.
[00:50:22.240 --> 00:50:22.720] Yeah.
[00:50:23.600 --> 00:50:27.920] And then, you know, another thing about podcasting is I feel like it keeps us in a no, right?
[00:50:27.920 --> 00:50:34.080] Because especially now with kids, your kids are about to go to college, one in college, they're looking at you and it's like, oh, mom knows that.
[00:50:34.080 --> 00:50:34.480] Oh, okay.
[00:50:34.480 --> 00:50:35.440] I don't teach her that.
[00:50:35.440 --> 00:50:36.320] She knows that.
[00:50:36.320 --> 00:50:38.240] Yeah, well, there's only a little bit of that.
[00:50:38.240 --> 00:50:40.160] It's usually mom plus like what?
[00:50:40.320 --> 00:50:42.000] Did you really say that?
[00:50:42.240 --> 00:50:44.320] I can't believe you didn't know that.
[00:50:44.320 --> 00:50:46.160] Okay, number two.
[00:50:46.160 --> 00:50:49.680] What is a really good business book that you've read recently?
[00:50:49.680 --> 00:50:53.680] I have read, you know, Rachel Rogers.
[00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:54.640] Yes.
[00:50:54.960 --> 00:50:58.080] I read her book, Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?
[00:50:58.080 --> 00:51:01.720] And I've known that's like one of my favorite business books, right?
[00:51:01.720 --> 00:51:03.320] I did not know that, really.
[00:51:03.320 --> 00:51:04.120] I did.
[00:51:04.120 --> 00:51:04.600] Yeah.
[00:51:04.600 --> 00:51:05.240] Okay.
[00:51:05.240 --> 00:51:05.640] Yeah.
[00:51:05.960 --> 00:51:06.200] Okay.
[00:50:59.920 --> 00:51:06.600] Yes.
[00:51:07.240 --> 00:51:08.840] It's like a life and business book.
[00:51:09.000 --> 00:51:11.000] It's like a mentor in my head kind of book.
[00:51:11.000 --> 00:51:11.720] Correct.
[00:51:11.720 --> 00:51:12.920] And so that's.
[00:51:13.240 --> 00:51:15.000] That's been very eye-opening to me.
[00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:17.640] You need to write a book, but we'll talk about that next time.
[00:51:17.640 --> 00:51:19.240] Oh, yeah, that's a whole other thing.
[00:51:19.560 --> 00:51:20.680] Another opportunity.
[00:51:21.160 --> 00:51:25.800] I mean, like opening up opportunities because Rachel just wrote a book, Future Millionaires, it's called.
[00:51:25.800 --> 00:51:26.920] I don't know if you know that.
[00:51:26.920 --> 00:51:27.240] Okay.
[00:51:27.240 --> 00:51:32.120] Number three, what's a non-negotiable part of your day these days?
[00:51:32.440 --> 00:51:38.440] I try to go for a walk, non-negotiable, whatever time I can fit it in.
[00:51:38.440 --> 00:51:38.840] Yeah.
[00:51:39.160 --> 00:51:39.960] Love it.
[00:51:39.960 --> 00:51:46.920] Number four, what is a personal trait about Marina that has contributed to your success?
[00:51:47.480 --> 00:51:48.600] I never give up.
[00:51:48.600 --> 00:51:49.480] It doesn't matter.
[00:51:49.480 --> 00:51:51.000] It could take years.
[00:51:51.000 --> 00:51:53.400] I mean, and it does usually with me.
[00:51:53.720 --> 00:51:54.520] Yes, yes.
[00:51:56.120 --> 00:51:56.840] Yes.
[00:51:57.320 --> 00:51:58.520] I think that's a trait.
[00:51:58.520 --> 00:52:08.280] Like, I feel like a lot of my guests, in order to get into this side hustle pro guest chair, I truly believe that's like a common thread because, you know, we might be down for a bit, but we don't give up.
[00:52:08.360 --> 00:52:09.960] We got it back up.
[00:52:10.600 --> 00:52:21.640] And then finally, finally, what is your parting advice for side hustlers who want to start something on the side, but are worried about how it's going to look?
[00:52:21.960 --> 00:52:22.600] Okay.
[00:52:23.080 --> 00:52:26.520] Please do not worry about how it's going to look.
[00:52:26.520 --> 00:52:34.600] I heard a quote from someone that, you know, I wouldn't worry about what other people are thinking because they're probably not thinking about you.
[00:52:34.920 --> 00:52:44.600] So do whatever is in your heart because I think that's going to be one of your biggest regrets that you worry about what other people think.
[00:52:44.800 --> 00:52:47.200] Indeed, indeed.
[00:52:47.200 --> 00:52:49.120] Oh, Marina, this has been awesome.
[00:52:49.120 --> 00:52:50.800] Thank you for being in the guest chair.
[00:52:50.800 --> 00:52:57.760] It's always so cool to connect with moguls and especially, you know, just the OGs that keep coming back.
[00:52:57.760 --> 00:53:02.720] And I'm just so grateful for you to witness your journey and to be a part of it.
[00:53:03.040 --> 00:53:04.560] It's a true honor.
[00:53:04.560 --> 00:53:09.520] So where can people connect with you and Banking on Girls after this episode?
[00:53:09.520 --> 00:53:09.920] Thank you.
[00:53:09.920 --> 00:53:15.200] Banking on Girls is on all the major platforms, wherever you find your podcasts.
[00:53:15.200 --> 00:53:21.360] And www.bankingongirls.com is my website.
[00:53:22.480 --> 00:53:23.360] All right, Marina.
[00:53:23.360 --> 00:53:24.320] So thank you again.
[00:53:24.320 --> 00:53:27.680] And everyone else, I will talk to you next week.
[00:53:29.280 --> 00:53:32.320] Hey guys, thanks for listening to Side Hustle Pro.
[00:53:32.320 --> 00:53:37.040] If you like the show, be sure to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts.
[00:53:37.040 --> 00:53:40.800] It helps other side hustlers just like you to find the show.
[00:53:40.800 --> 00:53:45.440] And if you want to hear more from me, you can follow me on Instagram at SideHustle Pro.
[00:53:45.440 --> 00:53:52.480] Plus, sign up for my six-foot Saturday newsletter at sidehustlepro.co slash newsletter.
[00:53:52.480 --> 00:53:59.920] When you sign up, you will receive weekly nuggets from me, including what I'm up to, personal lessons, and my business tip of the week.
[00:53:59.920 --> 00:54:04.640] Again, that's sidehustlepro.co slash newsletter to sign up.
[00:54:04.640 --> 00:54:06.240] Talk to you soon.
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