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[00:00:01.280 --> 00:00:04.480] Just because a project failed, it doesn't mean that I failed.
[00:00:04.480 --> 00:00:05.840] Because I am not the project.
[00:00:05.840 --> 00:00:11.360] I am an indie maker, and my goal is to make money with one project, not that one specifically.
[00:00:11.360 --> 00:00:16.480] Hello, and welcome back to Indie Bytes, the podcast where I bring you stories to fellow indie hackers in 15 minutes or less.
[00:00:16.480 --> 00:00:22.720] Today, I'm joined by Thiago Ferreira, who's the co-founder of Podsqueeze, an AI podcast tool that helps automate your podcast content.
[00:00:22.720 --> 00:00:26.800] The tool that helps you create show notes, newsletters, social posts, and more for your podcast.
[00:00:26.800 --> 00:00:29.360] It's currently doing 16k MRR and growing.
[00:00:29.360 --> 00:00:35.760] You might also know Thiago from his podcast, Wannabe Entrepreneur, where he's interviewed some impressive founders, including Peter Levels.
[00:00:35.760 --> 00:00:39.760] Before we get into this episode, I'd like to, of course, thank my legendary sponsor, Email Octopus.
[00:00:39.760 --> 00:00:47.120] Email Octopus are an email platform focused on affordability with a very generous free plan and ease of use without some of the bloated features that some email apps have.
[00:00:47.120 --> 00:00:52.720] So you can focus on shipping and growing your audience, which regular listeners will know is essential for growth in the early days.
[00:00:52.720 --> 00:00:58.000] So, to get started with an email platform that just gets out of the way, you can contact up to 2,500 people for free.
[00:00:58.000 --> 00:01:01.360] Head to emailoctopus.com or hit the link in the show notes.
[00:01:01.360 --> 00:01:03.440] Let's get into this episode with Tiago.
[00:01:03.440 --> 00:01:05.280] Thiago, welcome to Indie Bytes.
[00:01:05.280 --> 00:01:06.240] How are you doing, my friend?
[00:01:06.240 --> 00:01:06.800] Doing fine.
[00:01:06.800 --> 00:01:07.520] Thank you, James.
[00:01:07.520 --> 00:01:12.160] I'm so excited to be in this glandmark of the indie podcasting.
[00:01:12.160 --> 00:01:20.000] Well, you have been a bit of a stalwart in the indie podcasting community, having done over 300 episodes of your own show.
[00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:24.960] When did you start getting into indie hacking, and what was your gateway drug into bootstrapping?
[00:01:24.960 --> 00:01:29.200] I've been building products since college, I believe.
[00:01:29.200 --> 00:01:32.640] You know, I was bored learning those kind of things, so I started learning coding.
[00:01:32.800 --> 00:01:36.880] I learned PHP, and I was just an HTML and just building products.
[00:01:36.880 --> 00:01:40.880] And I've built so many, mostly kind of SaaS and web products.
[00:01:40.880 --> 00:01:47.280] I started with my climate change app, ChangeIt, but made barely no money.
[00:01:47.280 --> 00:01:51.120] And then my podcast that then led to a community.
[00:01:51.120 --> 00:01:53.360] This was a paid community for indie makers.
[00:01:53.360 --> 00:01:56.080] It was the WB space, the Wannabe Entrepreneur Space.
[00:01:56.240 --> 00:01:58.000] Really cool, really fun project.
[00:01:58.000 --> 00:02:00.120] And I met so many cool makers.
[00:02:00.120 --> 00:02:02.760] But again, it was making around 500 MR.
[00:01:59.680 --> 00:02:04.920] I think, of course, not enough to pay the bills.
[00:02:05.160 --> 00:02:15.160] Then after that, I kind of joined forces with my co-founder and we started by making a product also for indie makers called the Indie Lottery.
[00:02:15.160 --> 00:02:16.920] It was a fun project as well.
[00:02:16.920 --> 00:02:20.280] We got a few sponsors, but it was not enough.
[00:02:20.280 --> 00:02:25.400] And then we kind of hit goal with PodSqueeze that now is paying the bills for both of us.
[00:02:25.400 --> 00:02:29.960] And I'm interested by a lot of people that have been in the space for a while.
[00:02:29.960 --> 00:02:33.560] They tried a lot of things and nothing's really stuck.
[00:02:33.560 --> 00:02:36.520] Some would say they failed because you move on for them, you sunset them.
[00:02:36.520 --> 00:02:41.480] And then they'll eventually find a product that does start to gain traction, which is exactly what has happened with PodSqueeze.
[00:02:41.480 --> 00:02:50.520] And what's interesting about you as well, Thiago, is you've had the podcast where you've been interviewing people and taking your learnings from those conversations and you've done it loads.
[00:02:50.520 --> 00:02:55.880] When you're going through these projects and they've not gone well, are you doing like post-mortems?
[00:02:55.880 --> 00:02:58.840] Are you going back and figuring out what's worked, what hasn't?
[00:02:58.840 --> 00:03:01.800] And then the same thing with your podcast interviews.
[00:03:01.800 --> 00:03:02.760] Yes, always.
[00:03:03.240 --> 00:03:05.080] I'm really passionate about entrepreneurship.
[00:03:05.080 --> 00:03:08.680] So this is like a craft that I want to master.
[00:03:08.680 --> 00:03:10.760] I want to learn everything there is around it.
[00:03:10.760 --> 00:03:16.920] Regarding the sunsetting my projects, and you said something interesting, which is, yes, some projects failed.
[00:03:16.920 --> 00:03:23.080] And that was one of my biggest lessons, actually, which is just because a project failed, it doesn't mean that I failed.
[00:03:23.080 --> 00:03:24.440] Because I am not the project.
[00:03:24.440 --> 00:03:32.680] I am an indie maker, and my goal is to make money with one project, not that one specifically, not with my climate change app, not with my podcast.
[00:03:32.680 --> 00:03:40.600] So, in reality, just because I sunset a project or just, you know, let it be without touching and maintaining it, it doesn't mean that I failed.
[00:03:40.600 --> 00:03:45.840] Now, I'm interested to hear about you starting PodSqueeze, the idea for it.
[00:03:45.840 --> 00:03:48.640] You've produced your podcast, so the payment is there for you.
[00:03:48.640 --> 00:03:50.640] Right, what made you create this product?
[00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:51.360] Yes, exactly.
[00:03:51.520 --> 00:04:01.920] So, basically, I have my podcast, and I know how annoying it can be to first like to get downloads and to grow the show, and so many things involved besides just recording it, right?
[00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:08.160] So, I was brainstorming with my co-founder, and I was thinking, okay, there's this new thing called GPT.
[00:04:08.160 --> 00:04:08.960] What can we do?
[00:04:08.960 --> 00:04:12.320] And we're just brainstorming ideas and thinking, okay, maybe this, maybe that.
[00:04:12.320 --> 00:04:13.840] I was like, you know what?
[00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:19.120] Sometimes transcripts, they are not very good, but now with GPT, it's very smart.
[00:04:19.120 --> 00:04:25.600] So, it can probably take this transcript and generate great show notes and all these assets that we need to publish a show.
[00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:26.720] So, let's do this.
[00:04:26.960 --> 00:04:29.200] Let's create something for podcasters.
[00:04:29.200 --> 00:04:31.840] And that's also, by the way, something that I would advise everyone.
[00:04:31.840 --> 00:04:36.560] Like, there is a set list of things on when to start your project.
[00:04:36.560 --> 00:04:44.320] And I think solving your own problem is such a good one because then you become your first client and you know if the product is actually working or not.
[00:04:44.320 --> 00:04:52.800] Well, solving your own problem can be good and bad advice because if your problem is very niche and you are the only person that has that problem, then it's not going to be a good business.
[00:04:52.800 --> 00:04:57.680] So, how did you validate that idea that other podcasters also had this problem?
[00:04:58.080 --> 00:05:01.360] I don't know, to be honest, why PodSqueeze worked.
[00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:04.880] And it's really hard because I could theorize, I could give you some theories.
[00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:08.160] GPT was starting out, AI, everything.
[00:05:08.160 --> 00:05:10.480] But in reality, I don't really know.
[00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:12.320] I think there's always a component of luck.
[00:05:12.320 --> 00:05:17.040] And the way to reduce the dependency on luck is just to try many, many things.
[00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:20.000] But when I was doing my podcast, that's kind of the pattern I discovered.
[00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:25.360] Everyone that found some success, they tried many things very fast until one actually took off.
[00:05:25.360 --> 00:05:27.600] And they took off like no other project.
[00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:34.760] You know, it's like people would line up and say, hey, it's not working, but here's my password, is my bank account, whatever, fix it because I need it.
[00:05:29.840 --> 00:05:37.400] And then you realize, okay, I have product market feed.
[00:05:37.400 --> 00:05:38.920] So that's basically what happened.
[00:05:38.920 --> 00:05:40.520] We tried to build Pod Squeeze.
[00:05:40.520 --> 00:05:43.560] In the first week, we built the functionalities.
[00:05:43.560 --> 00:05:46.600] In the second week, we built the payments.
[00:05:46.600 --> 00:05:48.120] And then we launched it.
[00:05:48.120 --> 00:05:53.480] And immediately, we saw some traction that we never seen before with any of my products.
[00:05:53.480 --> 00:05:54.520] Where did you launch it?
[00:05:54.520 --> 00:05:55.560] Was it just on Twitter?
[00:05:55.560 --> 00:05:57.000] Did you do a product hunt launch?
[00:05:57.000 --> 00:05:58.920] Did you do it before the product was ready?
[00:05:59.240 --> 00:06:00.440] We did it in phases.
[00:06:00.440 --> 00:06:01.320] First was Twitter.
[00:06:01.320 --> 00:06:06.920] I have now around 5,000 followers or close to 5,000 followers on Twitter plus Reddit.
[00:06:06.920 --> 00:06:14.200] So I just went to all the indie maker go-to's, you know, went to Reddit, Twitter, shared everywhere I could, basically.
[00:06:14.360 --> 00:06:16.520] And that was the first launch.
[00:06:16.520 --> 00:06:20.520] Later on, then we did the code email and product hunt.
[00:06:20.520 --> 00:06:23.640] How did you use Reddit without getting yourself banned?
[00:06:24.680 --> 00:06:26.200] I was banned, basically.
[00:06:26.200 --> 00:06:27.720] There's no way around it.
[00:06:27.720 --> 00:06:28.760] I was banned many times.
[00:06:28.760 --> 00:06:30.040] I have many accounts.
[00:06:30.040 --> 00:06:32.280] I mean, I think you just learn, right?
[00:06:32.280 --> 00:06:35.400] Like each subreddit has different rules.
[00:06:35.400 --> 00:06:39.480] In the entrepreneur subreddit, you go there and say, Hey, guys, I'm looking for feedback.
[00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:41.160] And that normally works.
[00:06:41.560 --> 00:06:42.920] How good was this launch?
[00:06:42.920 --> 00:06:45.160] How quick were you able to get revenue?
[00:06:45.160 --> 00:06:50.920] And were you putting anything else in place apart from like having a product which has need to get people in?
[00:06:50.920 --> 00:06:53.000] We did two great things for our launch.
[00:06:53.000 --> 00:06:54.280] First, product hunt.
[00:06:54.280 --> 00:06:55.800] Product hunt is amazing.
[00:06:55.800 --> 00:06:59.160] Still, I thought product hunt was dead and people don't use it anymore.
[00:06:59.400 --> 00:07:02.760] Like, we just discovered something about Product hunt that will blow your mind.
[00:07:02.760 --> 00:07:07.880] So, basically, yeah, when you launch it, you need to have a big audience and you just DM everyone.
[00:07:08.440 --> 00:07:09.160] That's the strategy.
[00:07:09.160 --> 00:07:10.200] It's very simple.
[00:07:10.200 --> 00:07:12.280] And that's how we get the top five.
[00:07:12.280 --> 00:07:18.960] Once you get to top five, there's something beautiful that happened, which is you start getting tons of backlinks.
[00:07:19.200 --> 00:07:28.560] In our past launch, which was in the beginning of this year, our second launch, we got 500 people around coming from Product Hunt, but then we got thousands coming from Google.
[00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:33.920] We saw like a huge bump on Google, people searching for us, a lot of clicks coming from Google.
[00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:41.120] So actually, the Product Hunt launch had a huge influence on our SEO, and definitely that was really, really good.
[00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:43.840] Another thing that we did was the cold emails.
[00:07:43.840 --> 00:07:46.320] The cold emails was really, really cool.
[00:07:46.320 --> 00:07:52.960] So basically, we found that there was actually public information on podcasters with tons of emails.
[00:07:52.960 --> 00:07:57.040] But yeah, that also worked really, really well for the first months.
[00:07:57.040 --> 00:08:02.720] So from launch, what sort of MRR did you get into within, say, a month or two?
[00:08:02.800 --> 00:08:06.320] Month or two was around to 3,000.
[00:08:06.320 --> 00:08:10.800] And in the first four months, we reached like 6,000 MRR.
[00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:13.280] So people love to hear these stories.
[00:08:13.280 --> 00:08:16.160] And right now you're at 16,000.
[00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:22.960] Talk to me about some of the growth tactics that have been so useful for you or pivotal, you think, to that growth.
[00:08:22.960 --> 00:08:29.200] So this is really interesting because we can clearly see that there are different stages when you're launching a company, right?
[00:08:29.200 --> 00:08:34.080] So when we first launched, we were also kind of riding this wave, this AI wave.
[00:08:34.080 --> 00:08:37.520] So we were like, okay, this will just now, we are millionaires now.
[00:08:37.520 --> 00:08:42.560] Just rest and see the metrics grow and that's enough.
[00:08:42.560 --> 00:08:44.000] Of course, we were mistaken.
[00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:51.200] Once we reached around, I think we were six months in, seven months in, and we saw a stagnation on our growth.
[00:08:51.200 --> 00:08:53.520] And that's where we started phase two.
[00:08:53.520 --> 00:08:59.720] Phase two was a more kind of long-term marketing strategy, which is SEO.
[00:08:59.520 --> 00:09:06.920] And that's so first phase, product hunt, emails, shared everywhere, sharing all AI directories, everything.
[00:09:07.240 --> 00:09:08.360] It was more hustling.
[00:09:08.360 --> 00:09:14.920] Second phase, SEO, and as well a little bit of YouTube and TikTok and trying these other mediums.
[00:09:14.920 --> 00:09:17.000] Yeah, I can see you definitely experimenting things.
[00:09:17.000 --> 00:09:24.360] Now, SEO is very important to me and a lot of other indie hackers because I see how effective it can be.
[00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:28.040] For all, like, so, so many countless examples.
[00:09:28.040 --> 00:09:32.760] Elston of Tinyhost, Tebow of Twitter talks a lot about SEO.
[00:09:32.760 --> 00:09:37.720] It seems to be the secret source for growing your indie SaaS.
[00:09:37.720 --> 00:09:39.160] How did you do it, Thiago?
[00:09:39.160 --> 00:09:49.080] Yeah, I'm so surprised because sometimes, even we were just talking about indie beers, and I go there and I speak with other makers, even makers that are actually making good money and they don't know about SEO.
[00:09:49.080 --> 00:09:53.080] And it's absurd because it's such a great marketing way.
[00:09:53.080 --> 00:09:56.600] And as well, it's something that you do have kind of a recipe.
[00:09:57.160 --> 00:09:58.600] You can reproduce it.
[00:09:58.600 --> 00:10:03.160] Maybe it's easier to reproduce SEO than any other marketing medium, I would say.
[00:10:03.160 --> 00:10:11.800] So, yeah, the way we started was we were in this crossroad where the AI wave was not as strong as before.
[00:10:11.800 --> 00:10:18.440] And we thought, okay, we need to learn this thing called SEO because then people just find us on Google.
[00:10:18.440 --> 00:10:20.840] And the first thing we did, actually, we tried a few things.
[00:10:21.160 --> 00:10:22.920] It was not working very well.
[00:10:22.920 --> 00:10:28.280] And then we actually hired an auditor, someone, and this was probably one of the best decisions we made.
[00:10:28.280 --> 00:10:32.880] Because why wasting three, four, five months to learn everything there is around SEO.
[00:10:32.880 --> 00:10:37.800] If you can pay one person a thousand bucks and they will like do an audit and teach you everything.
[00:10:37.800 --> 00:10:38.840] So that's what we did.
[00:10:38.840 --> 00:10:44.280] He came and he analyzed the full website and he told us, okay, first of all, you need to increase the performance here.
[00:10:44.280 --> 00:10:46.720] And he showed us like these websites where you can do that.
[00:10:47.040 --> 00:11:00.080] And then he told us about how SEO works, which is finding keywords, keywords with a lot of people searching for these keywords and low competition and creating landing pages for these keywords, like tons of landing pages.
[00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:01.360] And that's one phase.
[00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:07.200] And then getting back links, getting people like other domains to link to you.
[00:11:07.200 --> 00:11:11.280] And especially domains, if they are domains in the podcasting industry, for us, is great.
[00:11:11.280 --> 00:11:14.960] And that after a few months, we started seeing some results.
[00:11:14.960 --> 00:11:17.440] And now most of our traffic comes from there.
[00:11:17.440 --> 00:11:19.040] Ah, it's fascinating.
[00:11:19.040 --> 00:11:29.840] Well, Tiaga, I want to round off talking about two things, one of which we'll try and keep short, but it's sort of the state of building an AI product, and then we'll end on future plans.
[00:11:29.840 --> 00:11:39.200] So with AI fast-moving, high-P, exciting, but also as the technology becomes available, lots of competition is coming in.
[00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:43.760] How do you see building an AI product now in 2024?
[00:11:43.760 --> 00:11:45.680] How do you view competition?
[00:11:45.680 --> 00:11:49.520] And what are you doing to negate some of those risks that are involved?
[00:11:49.520 --> 00:11:50.400] AI is amazing.
[00:11:50.400 --> 00:11:52.640] I think AI is definitely changing the world.
[00:11:52.880 --> 00:11:57.840] One thing that we try to do is, okay, we use AI with the purpose of solving a problem, right?
[00:11:58.080 --> 00:12:01.680] We are not just using AI because it's trendy, because it's cool.
[00:12:01.680 --> 00:12:08.160] So every time there's a new model coming out, we think, okay, can this make our product better?
[00:12:08.400 --> 00:12:10.720] Is this going to help podcasters?
[00:12:10.720 --> 00:12:13.520] And if it will, then we will implement it.
[00:12:13.520 --> 00:12:16.640] If we don't see a purpose on it, then we won't do it.
[00:12:16.640 --> 00:12:20.560] So, yeah, that's kind of our strategy product-wise.
[00:12:20.560 --> 00:12:26.800] Regarding the competition, that's also kind of the downside for indie makers around AI, which is everyone can do it.
[00:12:26.800 --> 00:12:36.200] So, the way we try to defend ourselves, besides, of course, being customer-driven and try to solve the problem, is to have a strong marketing presence.
[00:12:29.680 --> 00:12:45.800] So, that's why also we focus so much on SEO and our marketing, because that's something that it's actually harder to reproduce than a pod squeeze, right?
[00:12:45.800 --> 00:13:00.360] Like, someone can just come, they see how PodSqueez works, they get an open AI key, and they will just reproduce whatever or try to reproduce at least our marketing, our partnerships, our SEO, it will take them months to reproduce.
[00:13:00.360 --> 00:13:03.560] So, that's actually what we try to do to stay ahead.
[00:13:03.560 --> 00:13:05.720] What's your future plans with the product?
[00:13:05.720 --> 00:13:08.520] Are you just gonna sort of keep building, carry on doing what you're doing?
[00:13:08.520 --> 00:13:09.560] Are you enjoying it?
[00:13:09.560 --> 00:13:11.800] Do you want to have you got an exit on your mind?
[00:13:12.040 --> 00:13:14.760] The real answer is I just don't know, to be honest.
[00:13:15.400 --> 00:13:17.000] We can sell it, definitely.
[00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:19.800] That's something that we considered many times.
[00:13:19.800 --> 00:13:27.880] But in terms of product, we just again keep developing and see what users want and how AI is developing and how this can help others.
[00:13:27.880 --> 00:13:32.680] And as an indie maker or as an indie company, we keep building other products, right?
[00:13:32.680 --> 00:13:35.800] So, we have another one coming out.
[00:13:35.800 --> 00:13:53.720] So, once this one, once Pod Squeeze is kind of under control and we are sure that we can keep the quality, then we are starting to do other products and try to reproduce and learn more about indie making and entrepreneurship and try to see if what we've learned with PodSqueeze can be transferable to other products.
[00:13:53.720 --> 00:13:54.440] Interesting.
[00:13:54.440 --> 00:13:55.160] Why do that?
[00:13:55.400 --> 00:13:57.400] That sounds like a bad idea, Thiago.
[00:13:57.400 --> 00:14:01.640] That sounds like you're taking away your focus on PodSqueeze to do other things.
[00:14:01.640 --> 00:14:05.800] Yeah, I mean, again, we don't know if it's a good or a bad idea.
[00:14:05.800 --> 00:14:14.720] I think, in general, it's because we have tried so many things already with Pod Squeeze that we automated all the things that are working.
[00:14:12.680 --> 00:14:18.960] And all the things that are not working, we don't know how to make them work.
[00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:20.400] So that's kind of the idea.
[00:14:14.280 --> 00:14:21.440] Okay, we have time, actually.
[00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:28.800] We have time to focus on other projects without killing Pod Squeeze, without damaging Pod Squeeze.
[00:14:29.120 --> 00:14:33.120] I do end on three recommendations: a book, a podcast, and an Indie Hacker.
[00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:34.480] What have you got for me?
[00:14:34.480 --> 00:14:36.480] So the book, I have it here in my notes.
[00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:39.280] The book is the SAS playbook from Rob Walling.
[00:14:39.280 --> 00:14:43.200] It's definitely the best book I read around entrepreneurship.
[00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:45.440] There's so many actionable tips.
[00:14:45.440 --> 00:14:46.960] So definitely that.
[00:14:47.280 --> 00:14:49.600] And the podcast is also from Rob Walling.
[00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:51.680] Startups from the rest of us, but their stunts.
[00:14:51.680 --> 00:14:53.920] Of course, Indiebytes is one of them.
[00:14:53.920 --> 00:14:55.680] I would also recommend the Wanna Be Entrepreneur.
[00:14:55.680 --> 00:14:57.920] There's a lot of great interviews there.
[00:14:57.920 --> 00:15:00.960] And the maker, I would recommend Elston.
[00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:04.080] So he's at underscore Beretto from TinyHost.
[00:15:04.400 --> 00:15:09.840] I have a bunch of makers that I follow, but I really like him because, again, he gives actionable tips.
[00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:10.800] There's no bullshit.
[00:15:10.800 --> 00:15:13.600] There's no like just, hey, look at my MRR going up.
[00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:18.400] He actually shares how he gets there and the failures and the successes.
[00:15:18.400 --> 00:15:19.840] So yeah, that's Elston.
[00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:23.280] So at underscore Bereto with two T's.
[00:15:23.520 --> 00:15:26.720] Thiago, thank you so much for coming on this episode of Indie Bytes.
[00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:27.600] Thank you very much, James.
[00:15:27.680 --> 00:15:28.800] It was a pleasure.
[00:15:28.800 --> 00:15:34.080] Thank you for listening to this episode of Indiebites and a big thank you to my sponsor, Email Octopus, for making the show happen.
[00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:34.960] That's all from me.
[00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:36.640] See you next week.

Prompt 2: Key Takeaways

Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.

Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...". 

Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive. 

IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}

Prompt 3: Segments

Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.

For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)  
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion

IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
  "segments": [
    {
      "segment_title": "Topic Discussion", 
      "timestamp": "01:15:30",
      "key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
      "segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
    }
  ]
}

Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.

Prompt 4: Media Mentions

Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:

Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)  
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)

DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names

IMPORTANT: 
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
  "media_mentions": [
    {
      "title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
      "category": "Book",
      "author_artist": "N/A",
      "context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
      "context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
      "timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
    }
  ]
}

If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}

Full Transcript

[00:00:01.280 --> 00:00:04.480] Just because a project failed, it doesn't mean that I failed.
[00:00:04.480 --> 00:00:05.840] Because I am not the project.
[00:00:05.840 --> 00:00:11.360] I am an indie maker, and my goal is to make money with one project, not that one specifically.
[00:00:11.360 --> 00:00:16.480] Hello, and welcome back to Indie Bytes, the podcast where I bring you stories to fellow indie hackers in 15 minutes or less.
[00:00:16.480 --> 00:00:22.720] Today, I'm joined by Thiago Ferreira, who's the co-founder of Podsqueeze, an AI podcast tool that helps automate your podcast content.
[00:00:22.720 --> 00:00:26.800] The tool that helps you create show notes, newsletters, social posts, and more for your podcast.
[00:00:26.800 --> 00:00:29.360] It's currently doing 16k MRR and growing.
[00:00:29.360 --> 00:00:35.760] You might also know Thiago from his podcast, Wannabe Entrepreneur, where he's interviewed some impressive founders, including Peter Levels.
[00:00:35.760 --> 00:00:39.760] Before we get into this episode, I'd like to, of course, thank my legendary sponsor, Email Octopus.
[00:00:39.760 --> 00:00:47.120] Email Octopus are an email platform focused on affordability with a very generous free plan and ease of use without some of the bloated features that some email apps have.
[00:00:47.120 --> 00:00:52.720] So you can focus on shipping and growing your audience, which regular listeners will know is essential for growth in the early days.
[00:00:52.720 --> 00:00:58.000] So, to get started with an email platform that just gets out of the way, you can contact up to 2,500 people for free.
[00:00:58.000 --> 00:01:01.360] Head to emailoctopus.com or hit the link in the show notes.
[00:01:01.360 --> 00:01:03.440] Let's get into this episode with Tiago.
[00:01:03.440 --> 00:01:05.280] Thiago, welcome to Indie Bytes.
[00:01:05.280 --> 00:01:06.240] How are you doing, my friend?
[00:01:06.240 --> 00:01:06.800] Doing fine.
[00:01:06.800 --> 00:01:07.520] Thank you, James.
[00:01:07.520 --> 00:01:12.160] I'm so excited to be in this glandmark of the indie podcasting.
[00:01:12.160 --> 00:01:20.000] Well, you have been a bit of a stalwart in the indie podcasting community, having done over 300 episodes of your own show.
[00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:24.960] When did you start getting into indie hacking, and what was your gateway drug into bootstrapping?
[00:01:24.960 --> 00:01:29.200] I've been building products since college, I believe.
[00:01:29.200 --> 00:01:32.640] You know, I was bored learning those kind of things, so I started learning coding.
[00:01:32.800 --> 00:01:36.880] I learned PHP, and I was just an HTML and just building products.
[00:01:36.880 --> 00:01:40.880] And I've built so many, mostly kind of SaaS and web products.
[00:01:40.880 --> 00:01:47.280] I started with my climate change app, ChangeIt, but made barely no money.
[00:01:47.280 --> 00:01:51.120] And then my podcast that then led to a community.
[00:01:51.120 --> 00:01:53.360] This was a paid community for indie makers.
[00:01:53.360 --> 00:01:56.080] It was the WB space, the Wannabe Entrepreneur Space.
[00:01:56.240 --> 00:01:58.000] Really cool, really fun project.
[00:01:58.000 --> 00:02:00.120] And I met so many cool makers.
[00:02:00.120 --> 00:02:02.760] But again, it was making around 500 MR.
[00:01:59.680 --> 00:02:04.920] I think, of course, not enough to pay the bills.
[00:02:05.160 --> 00:02:15.160] Then after that, I kind of joined forces with my co-founder and we started by making a product also for indie makers called the Indie Lottery.
[00:02:15.160 --> 00:02:16.920] It was a fun project as well.
[00:02:16.920 --> 00:02:20.280] We got a few sponsors, but it was not enough.
[00:02:20.280 --> 00:02:25.400] And then we kind of hit goal with PodSqueeze that now is paying the bills for both of us.
[00:02:25.400 --> 00:02:29.960] And I'm interested by a lot of people that have been in the space for a while.
[00:02:29.960 --> 00:02:33.560] They tried a lot of things and nothing's really stuck.
[00:02:33.560 --> 00:02:36.520] Some would say they failed because you move on for them, you sunset them.
[00:02:36.520 --> 00:02:41.480] And then they'll eventually find a product that does start to gain traction, which is exactly what has happened with PodSqueeze.
[00:02:41.480 --> 00:02:50.520] And what's interesting about you as well, Thiago, is you've had the podcast where you've been interviewing people and taking your learnings from those conversations and you've done it loads.
[00:02:50.520 --> 00:02:55.880] When you're going through these projects and they've not gone well, are you doing like post-mortems?
[00:02:55.880 --> 00:02:58.840] Are you going back and figuring out what's worked, what hasn't?
[00:02:58.840 --> 00:03:01.800] And then the same thing with your podcast interviews.
[00:03:01.800 --> 00:03:02.760] Yes, always.
[00:03:03.240 --> 00:03:05.080] I'm really passionate about entrepreneurship.
[00:03:05.080 --> 00:03:08.680] So this is like a craft that I want to master.
[00:03:08.680 --> 00:03:10.760] I want to learn everything there is around it.
[00:03:10.760 --> 00:03:16.920] Regarding the sunsetting my projects, and you said something interesting, which is, yes, some projects failed.
[00:03:16.920 --> 00:03:23.080] And that was one of my biggest lessons, actually, which is just because a project failed, it doesn't mean that I failed.
[00:03:23.080 --> 00:03:24.440] Because I am not the project.
[00:03:24.440 --> 00:03:32.680] I am an indie maker, and my goal is to make money with one project, not that one specifically, not with my climate change app, not with my podcast.
[00:03:32.680 --> 00:03:40.600] So, in reality, just because I sunset a project or just, you know, let it be without touching and maintaining it, it doesn't mean that I failed.
[00:03:40.600 --> 00:03:45.840] Now, I'm interested to hear about you starting PodSqueeze, the idea for it.
[00:03:45.840 --> 00:03:48.640] You've produced your podcast, so the payment is there for you.
[00:03:48.640 --> 00:03:50.640] Right, what made you create this product?
[00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:51.360] Yes, exactly.
[00:03:51.520 --> 00:04:01.920] So, basically, I have my podcast, and I know how annoying it can be to first like to get downloads and to grow the show, and so many things involved besides just recording it, right?
[00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:08.160] So, I was brainstorming with my co-founder, and I was thinking, okay, there's this new thing called GPT.
[00:04:08.160 --> 00:04:08.960] What can we do?
[00:04:08.960 --> 00:04:12.320] And we're just brainstorming ideas and thinking, okay, maybe this, maybe that.
[00:04:12.320 --> 00:04:13.840] I was like, you know what?
[00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:19.120] Sometimes transcripts, they are not very good, but now with GPT, it's very smart.
[00:04:19.120 --> 00:04:25.600] So, it can probably take this transcript and generate great show notes and all these assets that we need to publish a show.
[00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:26.720] So, let's do this.
[00:04:26.960 --> 00:04:29.200] Let's create something for podcasters.
[00:04:29.200 --> 00:04:31.840] And that's also, by the way, something that I would advise everyone.
[00:04:31.840 --> 00:04:36.560] Like, there is a set list of things on when to start your project.
[00:04:36.560 --> 00:04:44.320] And I think solving your own problem is such a good one because then you become your first client and you know if the product is actually working or not.
[00:04:44.320 --> 00:04:52.800] Well, solving your own problem can be good and bad advice because if your problem is very niche and you are the only person that has that problem, then it's not going to be a good business.
[00:04:52.800 --> 00:04:57.680] So, how did you validate that idea that other podcasters also had this problem?
[00:04:58.080 --> 00:05:01.360] I don't know, to be honest, why PodSqueeze worked.
[00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:04.880] And it's really hard because I could theorize, I could give you some theories.
[00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:08.160] GPT was starting out, AI, everything.
[00:05:08.160 --> 00:05:10.480] But in reality, I don't really know.
[00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:12.320] I think there's always a component of luck.
[00:05:12.320 --> 00:05:17.040] And the way to reduce the dependency on luck is just to try many, many things.
[00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:20.000] But when I was doing my podcast, that's kind of the pattern I discovered.
[00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:25.360] Everyone that found some success, they tried many things very fast until one actually took off.
[00:05:25.360 --> 00:05:27.600] And they took off like no other project.
[00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:34.760] You know, it's like people would line up and say, hey, it's not working, but here's my password, is my bank account, whatever, fix it because I need it.
[00:05:29.840 --> 00:05:37.400] And then you realize, okay, I have product market feed.
[00:05:37.400 --> 00:05:38.920] So that's basically what happened.
[00:05:38.920 --> 00:05:40.520] We tried to build Pod Squeeze.
[00:05:40.520 --> 00:05:43.560] In the first week, we built the functionalities.
[00:05:43.560 --> 00:05:46.600] In the second week, we built the payments.
[00:05:46.600 --> 00:05:48.120] And then we launched it.
[00:05:48.120 --> 00:05:53.480] And immediately, we saw some traction that we never seen before with any of my products.
[00:05:53.480 --> 00:05:54.520] Where did you launch it?
[00:05:54.520 --> 00:05:55.560] Was it just on Twitter?
[00:05:55.560 --> 00:05:57.000] Did you do a product hunt launch?
[00:05:57.000 --> 00:05:58.920] Did you do it before the product was ready?
[00:05:59.240 --> 00:06:00.440] We did it in phases.
[00:06:00.440 --> 00:06:01.320] First was Twitter.
[00:06:01.320 --> 00:06:06.920] I have now around 5,000 followers or close to 5,000 followers on Twitter plus Reddit.
[00:06:06.920 --> 00:06:14.200] So I just went to all the indie maker go-to's, you know, went to Reddit, Twitter, shared everywhere I could, basically.
[00:06:14.360 --> 00:06:16.520] And that was the first launch.
[00:06:16.520 --> 00:06:20.520] Later on, then we did the code email and product hunt.
[00:06:20.520 --> 00:06:23.640] How did you use Reddit without getting yourself banned?
[00:06:24.680 --> 00:06:26.200] I was banned, basically.
[00:06:26.200 --> 00:06:27.720] There's no way around it.
[00:06:27.720 --> 00:06:28.760] I was banned many times.
[00:06:28.760 --> 00:06:30.040] I have many accounts.
[00:06:30.040 --> 00:06:32.280] I mean, I think you just learn, right?
[00:06:32.280 --> 00:06:35.400] Like each subreddit has different rules.
[00:06:35.400 --> 00:06:39.480] In the entrepreneur subreddit, you go there and say, Hey, guys, I'm looking for feedback.
[00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:41.160] And that normally works.
[00:06:41.560 --> 00:06:42.920] How good was this launch?
[00:06:42.920 --> 00:06:45.160] How quick were you able to get revenue?
[00:06:45.160 --> 00:06:50.920] And were you putting anything else in place apart from like having a product which has need to get people in?
[00:06:50.920 --> 00:06:53.000] We did two great things for our launch.
[00:06:53.000 --> 00:06:54.280] First, product hunt.
[00:06:54.280 --> 00:06:55.800] Product hunt is amazing.
[00:06:55.800 --> 00:06:59.160] Still, I thought product hunt was dead and people don't use it anymore.
[00:06:59.400 --> 00:07:02.760] Like, we just discovered something about Product hunt that will blow your mind.
[00:07:02.760 --> 00:07:07.880] So, basically, yeah, when you launch it, you need to have a big audience and you just DM everyone.
[00:07:08.440 --> 00:07:09.160] That's the strategy.
[00:07:09.160 --> 00:07:10.200] It's very simple.
[00:07:10.200 --> 00:07:12.280] And that's how we get the top five.
[00:07:12.280 --> 00:07:18.960] Once you get to top five, there's something beautiful that happened, which is you start getting tons of backlinks.
[00:07:19.200 --> 00:07:28.560] In our past launch, which was in the beginning of this year, our second launch, we got 500 people around coming from Product Hunt, but then we got thousands coming from Google.
[00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:33.920] We saw like a huge bump on Google, people searching for us, a lot of clicks coming from Google.
[00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:41.120] So actually, the Product Hunt launch had a huge influence on our SEO, and definitely that was really, really good.
[00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:43.840] Another thing that we did was the cold emails.
[00:07:43.840 --> 00:07:46.320] The cold emails was really, really cool.
[00:07:46.320 --> 00:07:52.960] So basically, we found that there was actually public information on podcasters with tons of emails.
[00:07:52.960 --> 00:07:57.040] But yeah, that also worked really, really well for the first months.
[00:07:57.040 --> 00:08:02.720] So from launch, what sort of MRR did you get into within, say, a month or two?
[00:08:02.800 --> 00:08:06.320] Month or two was around to 3,000.
[00:08:06.320 --> 00:08:10.800] And in the first four months, we reached like 6,000 MRR.
[00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:13.280] So people love to hear these stories.
[00:08:13.280 --> 00:08:16.160] And right now you're at 16,000.
[00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:22.960] Talk to me about some of the growth tactics that have been so useful for you or pivotal, you think, to that growth.
[00:08:22.960 --> 00:08:29.200] So this is really interesting because we can clearly see that there are different stages when you're launching a company, right?
[00:08:29.200 --> 00:08:34.080] So when we first launched, we were also kind of riding this wave, this AI wave.
[00:08:34.080 --> 00:08:37.520] So we were like, okay, this will just now, we are millionaires now.
[00:08:37.520 --> 00:08:42.560] Just rest and see the metrics grow and that's enough.
[00:08:42.560 --> 00:08:44.000] Of course, we were mistaken.
[00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:51.200] Once we reached around, I think we were six months in, seven months in, and we saw a stagnation on our growth.
[00:08:51.200 --> 00:08:53.520] And that's where we started phase two.
[00:08:53.520 --> 00:08:59.720] Phase two was a more kind of long-term marketing strategy, which is SEO.
[00:08:59.520 --> 00:09:06.920] And that's so first phase, product hunt, emails, shared everywhere, sharing all AI directories, everything.
[00:09:07.240 --> 00:09:08.360] It was more hustling.
[00:09:08.360 --> 00:09:14.920] Second phase, SEO, and as well a little bit of YouTube and TikTok and trying these other mediums.
[00:09:14.920 --> 00:09:17.000] Yeah, I can see you definitely experimenting things.
[00:09:17.000 --> 00:09:24.360] Now, SEO is very important to me and a lot of other indie hackers because I see how effective it can be.
[00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:28.040] For all, like, so, so many countless examples.
[00:09:28.040 --> 00:09:32.760] Elston of Tinyhost, Tebow of Twitter talks a lot about SEO.
[00:09:32.760 --> 00:09:37.720] It seems to be the secret source for growing your indie SaaS.
[00:09:37.720 --> 00:09:39.160] How did you do it, Thiago?
[00:09:39.160 --> 00:09:49.080] Yeah, I'm so surprised because sometimes, even we were just talking about indie beers, and I go there and I speak with other makers, even makers that are actually making good money and they don't know about SEO.
[00:09:49.080 --> 00:09:53.080] And it's absurd because it's such a great marketing way.
[00:09:53.080 --> 00:09:56.600] And as well, it's something that you do have kind of a recipe.
[00:09:57.160 --> 00:09:58.600] You can reproduce it.
[00:09:58.600 --> 00:10:03.160] Maybe it's easier to reproduce SEO than any other marketing medium, I would say.
[00:10:03.160 --> 00:10:11.800] So, yeah, the way we started was we were in this crossroad where the AI wave was not as strong as before.
[00:10:11.800 --> 00:10:18.440] And we thought, okay, we need to learn this thing called SEO because then people just find us on Google.
[00:10:18.440 --> 00:10:20.840] And the first thing we did, actually, we tried a few things.
[00:10:21.160 --> 00:10:22.920] It was not working very well.
[00:10:22.920 --> 00:10:28.280] And then we actually hired an auditor, someone, and this was probably one of the best decisions we made.
[00:10:28.280 --> 00:10:32.880] Because why wasting three, four, five months to learn everything there is around SEO.
[00:10:32.880 --> 00:10:37.800] If you can pay one person a thousand bucks and they will like do an audit and teach you everything.
[00:10:37.800 --> 00:10:38.840] So that's what we did.
[00:10:38.840 --> 00:10:44.280] He came and he analyzed the full website and he told us, okay, first of all, you need to increase the performance here.
[00:10:44.280 --> 00:10:46.720] And he showed us like these websites where you can do that.
[00:10:47.040 --> 00:11:00.080] And then he told us about how SEO works, which is finding keywords, keywords with a lot of people searching for these keywords and low competition and creating landing pages for these keywords, like tons of landing pages.
[00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:01.360] And that's one phase.
[00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:07.200] And then getting back links, getting people like other domains to link to you.
[00:11:07.200 --> 00:11:11.280] And especially domains, if they are domains in the podcasting industry, for us, is great.
[00:11:11.280 --> 00:11:14.960] And that after a few months, we started seeing some results.
[00:11:14.960 --> 00:11:17.440] And now most of our traffic comes from there.
[00:11:17.440 --> 00:11:19.040] Ah, it's fascinating.
[00:11:19.040 --> 00:11:29.840] Well, Tiaga, I want to round off talking about two things, one of which we'll try and keep short, but it's sort of the state of building an AI product, and then we'll end on future plans.
[00:11:29.840 --> 00:11:39.200] So with AI fast-moving, high-P, exciting, but also as the technology becomes available, lots of competition is coming in.
[00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:43.760] How do you see building an AI product now in 2024?
[00:11:43.760 --> 00:11:45.680] How do you view competition?
[00:11:45.680 --> 00:11:49.520] And what are you doing to negate some of those risks that are involved?
[00:11:49.520 --> 00:11:50.400] AI is amazing.
[00:11:50.400 --> 00:11:52.640] I think AI is definitely changing the world.
[00:11:52.880 --> 00:11:57.840] One thing that we try to do is, okay, we use AI with the purpose of solving a problem, right?
[00:11:58.080 --> 00:12:01.680] We are not just using AI because it's trendy, because it's cool.
[00:12:01.680 --> 00:12:08.160] So every time there's a new model coming out, we think, okay, can this make our product better?
[00:12:08.400 --> 00:12:10.720] Is this going to help podcasters?
[00:12:10.720 --> 00:12:13.520] And if it will, then we will implement it.
[00:12:13.520 --> 00:12:16.640] If we don't see a purpose on it, then we won't do it.
[00:12:16.640 --> 00:12:20.560] So, yeah, that's kind of our strategy product-wise.
[00:12:20.560 --> 00:12:26.800] Regarding the competition, that's also kind of the downside for indie makers around AI, which is everyone can do it.
[00:12:26.800 --> 00:12:36.200] So, the way we try to defend ourselves, besides, of course, being customer-driven and try to solve the problem, is to have a strong marketing presence.
[00:12:29.680 --> 00:12:45.800] So, that's why also we focus so much on SEO and our marketing, because that's something that it's actually harder to reproduce than a pod squeeze, right?
[00:12:45.800 --> 00:13:00.360] Like, someone can just come, they see how PodSqueez works, they get an open AI key, and they will just reproduce whatever or try to reproduce at least our marketing, our partnerships, our SEO, it will take them months to reproduce.
[00:13:00.360 --> 00:13:03.560] So, that's actually what we try to do to stay ahead.
[00:13:03.560 --> 00:13:05.720] What's your future plans with the product?
[00:13:05.720 --> 00:13:08.520] Are you just gonna sort of keep building, carry on doing what you're doing?
[00:13:08.520 --> 00:13:09.560] Are you enjoying it?
[00:13:09.560 --> 00:13:11.800] Do you want to have you got an exit on your mind?
[00:13:12.040 --> 00:13:14.760] The real answer is I just don't know, to be honest.
[00:13:15.400 --> 00:13:17.000] We can sell it, definitely.
[00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:19.800] That's something that we considered many times.
[00:13:19.800 --> 00:13:27.880] But in terms of product, we just again keep developing and see what users want and how AI is developing and how this can help others.
[00:13:27.880 --> 00:13:32.680] And as an indie maker or as an indie company, we keep building other products, right?
[00:13:32.680 --> 00:13:35.800] So, we have another one coming out.
[00:13:35.800 --> 00:13:53.720] So, once this one, once Pod Squeeze is kind of under control and we are sure that we can keep the quality, then we are starting to do other products and try to reproduce and learn more about indie making and entrepreneurship and try to see if what we've learned with PodSqueeze can be transferable to other products.
[00:13:53.720 --> 00:13:54.440] Interesting.
[00:13:54.440 --> 00:13:55.160] Why do that?
[00:13:55.400 --> 00:13:57.400] That sounds like a bad idea, Thiago.
[00:13:57.400 --> 00:14:01.640] That sounds like you're taking away your focus on PodSqueeze to do other things.
[00:14:01.640 --> 00:14:05.800] Yeah, I mean, again, we don't know if it's a good or a bad idea.
[00:14:05.800 --> 00:14:14.720] I think, in general, it's because we have tried so many things already with Pod Squeeze that we automated all the things that are working.
[00:14:12.680 --> 00:14:18.960] And all the things that are not working, we don't know how to make them work.
[00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:20.400] So that's kind of the idea.
[00:14:14.280 --> 00:14:21.440] Okay, we have time, actually.
[00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:28.800] We have time to focus on other projects without killing Pod Squeeze, without damaging Pod Squeeze.
[00:14:29.120 --> 00:14:33.120] I do end on three recommendations: a book, a podcast, and an Indie Hacker.
[00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:34.480] What have you got for me?
[00:14:34.480 --> 00:14:36.480] So the book, I have it here in my notes.
[00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:39.280] The book is the SAS playbook from Rob Walling.
[00:14:39.280 --> 00:14:43.200] It's definitely the best book I read around entrepreneurship.
[00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:45.440] There's so many actionable tips.
[00:14:45.440 --> 00:14:46.960] So definitely that.
[00:14:47.280 --> 00:14:49.600] And the podcast is also from Rob Walling.
[00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:51.680] Startups from the rest of us, but their stunts.
[00:14:51.680 --> 00:14:53.920] Of course, Indiebytes is one of them.
[00:14:53.920 --> 00:14:55.680] I would also recommend the Wanna Be Entrepreneur.
[00:14:55.680 --> 00:14:57.920] There's a lot of great interviews there.
[00:14:57.920 --> 00:15:00.960] And the maker, I would recommend Elston.
[00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:04.080] So he's at underscore Beretto from TinyHost.
[00:15:04.400 --> 00:15:09.840] I have a bunch of makers that I follow, but I really like him because, again, he gives actionable tips.
[00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:10.800] There's no bullshit.
[00:15:10.800 --> 00:15:13.600] There's no like just, hey, look at my MRR going up.
[00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:18.400] He actually shares how he gets there and the failures and the successes.
[00:15:18.400 --> 00:15:19.840] So yeah, that's Elston.
[00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:23.280] So at underscore Bereto with two T's.
[00:15:23.520 --> 00:15:26.720] Thiago, thank you so much for coming on this episode of Indie Bytes.
[00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:27.600] Thank you very much, James.
[00:15:27.680 --> 00:15:28.800] It was a pleasure.
[00:15:28.800 --> 00:15:34.080] Thank you for listening to this episode of Indiebites and a big thank you to my sponsor, Email Octopus, for making the show happen.
[00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:34.960] That's all from me.
[00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:36.640] See you next week.