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[00:00:01.440 --> 00:00:07.120] He was one of the only ones at Lempire and he had to fight for the deal to happen.
[00:00:07.120 --> 00:00:08.320] And he was so right.
[00:00:08.320 --> 00:00:14.000] I think we were like below 2 million and we are pretty much between 8 and 9 right now.
[00:00:14.000 --> 00:00:19.200] Hello and welcome back to Indiebytes, the podcast wrapping you stories of fellow indie hackers in 15 minutes or less.
[00:00:19.200 --> 00:00:28.960] Today I'm joined by Tebo Louie Luca who is a serial founder most well known for starting TweetHunter and Tapio in 2021 before selling the company in 2022 for 8 figures.
[00:00:28.960 --> 00:00:35.120] Since then Tebow has gone on to acquire an AI video creation tool, TypeFrames, which he has spun into Revid.ai recently.
[00:00:35.120 --> 00:00:42.320] He actually announced after recording this that he's left TweetHunter and is back to focus on his early stage products, which we do touch on in this episode.
[00:00:42.320 --> 00:00:47.600] He's also started a newsletter with over 50,000 subscribers and has over 100,000 Twitter followers.
[00:00:47.600 --> 00:00:50.320] We covered so much ground in this episode, I just couldn't fit it all in.
[00:00:50.320 --> 00:00:54.880] So the full 40-minute conversation is available on the Indiebytes membership for $60 a year.
[00:00:54.880 --> 00:00:57.840] Head to indiebytes.com slash membership to get access.
[00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:04.640] I kicked off this conversation with Tebow asking him if he'd rather have 100,000 Twitter followers or 100,000 newsletter subscribers.
[00:01:04.640 --> 00:01:06.880] He didn't have to think long about his answer.
[00:01:06.880 --> 00:01:09.360] Oh, definitely email subscribers.
[00:01:09.360 --> 00:01:14.880] So if Tebo, who literally started a Twitter grow tool, would prefer an email list, I think you should start building one.
[00:01:14.880 --> 00:01:15.600] And guess what?
[00:01:15.600 --> 00:01:19.360] My sponsor, EmailOctopus, is the perfect tool for you to get started.
[00:01:19.360 --> 00:01:30.960] Their free plan is generous, where you can contact up to 2,500 subscribers for free, and the tool is focused on ease of use, so you don't have to mess around figuring out with all these unnecessary marketing features that some of the other tools tend to push on you.
[00:01:30.960 --> 00:01:37.440] So to get started, head to emailoctopus.com and if you want to upgrade from their free plan, you can get 30% off of code IndieBytes.
[00:01:37.440 --> 00:01:39.280] Let's get into this episode.
[00:01:39.280 --> 00:01:42.960] Tebo, you're a bit of a legend in the IndieMaker sphere right now.
[00:01:42.960 --> 00:01:43.520] How are you doing?
[00:01:43.520 --> 00:01:44.640] Welcome to the pod.
[00:01:44.640 --> 00:01:46.240] Well, thank you, James, for having me.
[00:01:46.240 --> 00:01:47.840] So, let's talk about your past.
[00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:50.800] You are no stranger to failure, Tebo.
[00:01:50.800 --> 00:01:58.000] Now, I think a lot of founders that I've met that have ended up being successful have some sort of failure in their background, especially bootstrappers.
[00:01:58.000 --> 00:01:59.920] They'll fail in some sort of VC website.
[00:02:00.360 --> 00:02:07.320] Do you think this is like a rite of passage for bootstrappers to become successful, to sort of have these failures in their past?
[00:02:07.320 --> 00:02:08.840] I think it's the norm.
[00:02:09.400 --> 00:02:22.040] I think it's like 80 or 90% of people will have to go through failures because if you succeed right away, it's probably a little bit more because you are lucky.
[00:02:22.040 --> 00:02:29.800] And maybe you will struggle with many things later because you didn't go through this hard-suffering part of failing.
[00:02:29.800 --> 00:02:35.960] So, maybe if you ever go through failures, it's going to be harder to deal with that.
[00:02:35.960 --> 00:02:40.760] So, when you first started out with startups, you did everything you could to try and make it work.
[00:02:40.760 --> 00:02:46.760] You did the things you thought that startup founders should do in terms of raising money.
[00:02:46.760 --> 00:02:55.160] You raised 20,000 on a Kickstarter, 200,000 from other investors for your first app for helping kids with chores.
[00:02:55.160 --> 00:02:56.200] And then you did that again.
[00:02:56.200 --> 00:02:58.120] Was there at any point that you enjoyed doing that?
[00:02:58.680 --> 00:03:01.080] Because you thought that was the thing that you had to do?
[00:03:01.080 --> 00:03:01.800] Yeah, I think so.
[00:03:01.800 --> 00:03:05.560] Like, I was playing the idea of the startup founder that I had in my mind.
[00:03:05.560 --> 00:03:10.760] I think the main issue is it took me two years to realize that I was failing.
[00:03:10.760 --> 00:03:17.800] And that's the exact thing that we wanted to change when we got back together with my former co-founder.
[00:03:18.040 --> 00:03:25.240] We basically said if we start a new product and if we fail again, it needs to be two weeks and not two years.
[00:03:25.240 --> 00:03:30.760] And that was the basic of Pony Express and what became TweetHunter.
[00:03:30.760 --> 00:03:31.880] Let's talk about that then.
[00:03:31.880 --> 00:03:41.160] So, when you started this approach of launching one new product every week or every two weeks, how did you know when to move on to something new?
[00:03:41.160 --> 00:03:51.760] Because I think a lot of indie hackers want to try this approach and they start something and they just don't know when to move on to the next thing because they're like, oh, it could work and they sort of keep it alive.
[00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:58.880] I think what's really important is that the default is to create a new project.
[00:03:58.880 --> 00:04:06.480] So, it's not like I will ship a product in two weeks and if it doesn't work out, I will create another one.
[00:04:06.480 --> 00:04:12.560] It's more like I will create a product every one or two weeks until something unexpected happen.
[00:04:12.560 --> 00:04:21.120] So, the default is actually to go to the next product to like continue and continue until something unexpected happened.
[00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:22.560] And that's actually what happened.
[00:04:22.800 --> 00:04:25.440] Tweet Hunter was like the 11th project.
[00:04:25.440 --> 00:04:25.840] Yeah.
[00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:32.800] And it took off so rapidly that it disrupted the entire process that we were into.
[00:04:32.800 --> 00:04:36.640] That launch of TweetHunter, you said you immediately felt the difference with it.
[00:04:36.640 --> 00:04:39.120] You grew revenue really quickly.
[00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:42.800] Why do you think this one, this idea, stood out so much?
[00:04:42.800 --> 00:04:44.560] I think because it actually worked.
[00:04:44.560 --> 00:04:50.080] The products were actually really helping people in what they were trying to achieve.
[00:04:50.080 --> 00:04:52.080] And it was the case for me in the first place.
[00:04:52.080 --> 00:05:01.920] Like, I built a product for me because I realized that Twitter was our first acquisition channel for every single one of our new products.
[00:05:01.920 --> 00:05:04.560] And so I wanted to grow my account.
[00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:07.840] And I built a tool to come up with better tweets.
[00:05:07.840 --> 00:05:08.800] And it worked for me.
[00:05:08.800 --> 00:05:14.080] Like, I was using it every day to come up with tweet inspiration.
[00:05:14.080 --> 00:05:16.720] And that was the case for other people too.
[00:05:16.720 --> 00:05:26.240] The next sort of big inflection point for you was partnering with JK Molina to go from 3 to 20k on one single launch.
[00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:28.960] Do you think this is a good strategy for other people?
[00:05:28.960 --> 00:05:39.400] And with your more recent project, have you been trying to find these influencers that can help grow a product like JK did and like the other chap you work with Taplio on?
[00:05:39.720 --> 00:05:40.680] I really think it is.
[00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:46.920] It was such an interesting strategy that we immediately tried to replicate it when we launched Tapio.
[00:05:47.240 --> 00:05:54.600] What people don't see behind the scene is that we are trying to make this happen a lot more than it's succeeding.
[00:05:55.080 --> 00:05:59.880] One example with that is the last project I'm working on, Revid.ai.
[00:06:00.200 --> 00:06:04.360] I partnered up with a TikToker and he just disappears.
[00:06:04.360 --> 00:06:09.400] The point here is it's hard to set up because so many things can happen.
[00:06:09.400 --> 00:06:15.240] Like creators, like big creators with audiences, are somewhat unreliable.
[00:06:15.240 --> 00:06:27.640] And if you are one of the 10 projects that they're working on and one of the other is skyrocketing, they're gonna just shift to their focus to this one and you're gonna be forgotten.
[00:06:27.640 --> 00:06:28.600] That's true.
[00:06:28.600 --> 00:06:29.480] Yeah, yeah.
[00:06:29.480 --> 00:06:33.960] Just keep in mind through that, like for Tweet Hunter, it was a perfect match.
[00:06:33.960 --> 00:06:36.680] Like it was a perfect thing to do.
[00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:41.400] Obviously, it cannot work on every product.
[00:06:41.400 --> 00:06:46.280] And so in terms of selling, you sell to Guillaume Yabesh of L'Empire.
[00:06:46.280 --> 00:06:47.480] Crazy story.
[00:06:48.200 --> 00:07:01.800] With him in middle school, you went through a broker to try and sell Tweet Hunter and then you ended up messaging Guillaume and said, look, dude, this broker, not quite doing what we need, but are you interested?
[00:07:01.800 --> 00:07:06.120] A few weeks later, a few WhatsApp messages, you get the sale through.
[00:07:06.360 --> 00:07:20.560] What I didn't know at the time is, and I learned about that recently, is that Guillaume was really pushing this deal to happen, but he was one of the only ones at Lempheiger, and he had to fight for the deal to happen.
[00:07:14.680 --> 00:07:21.760] And he was so right.
[00:07:21.760 --> 00:07:34.720] Like right now, when you look at the growth during the earn out period, I think we were like below 2 million in annual recurring revenue, and we are pretty much between 8 and 9 right now.
[00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:39.360] So it was just so, it's so obvious that it's a successful acquisition for them.
[00:07:39.360 --> 00:07:40.480] And you mentioned earn out.
[00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:49.280] If people don't know what an earn out is, it's when you get like a payment upfront for the acquisition, then you have to hit certain revenue milestones to earn the rest of the money at each milestone.
[00:07:49.520 --> 00:07:57.200] It's very, very often like 50% of the deal will happen after the acquisition happened.
[00:07:57.200 --> 00:08:01.360] Like in our case, because we were a very risky acquisition, it was like 80%.
[00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:07.840] So 80% of the money were conditioned to specific revenue milestones that we had to reach.
[00:08:07.840 --> 00:08:13.600] I'm super happy that we reached 90% of them, but it was super stressful.
[00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:22.800] Debo, it's almost like a game where you're unlocking new levels, like unlocking a new weapon in a game, but instead it's just unlocking cash in your bank account.
[00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:26.000] It's suffering that you say that because we actually designed it that way.
[00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:35.120] Because we could have done it like it was, we just look at the revenue at the end of the two years earn out, but we didn't want to do that.
[00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:37.280] Like we were worrying about motivation.
[00:08:37.280 --> 00:08:41.200] And so we needed those milestones and steps.
[00:08:41.520 --> 00:08:48.240] So when you get those, and they're not small chunks of money, I'm guessing, in these milestones.
[00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:51.520] Once you paid your tax bill to the French government, what are you doing with that money?
[00:08:51.600 --> 00:08:53.920] You like putting it aside for your any day, for your kids?
[00:08:53.920 --> 00:08:56.080] Did you buy yourself anything nice?
[00:08:56.320 --> 00:08:58.320] I suck so much at this.
[00:08:58.280 --> 00:09:00.360] Like, I basically didn't do anything.
[00:09:00.520 --> 00:09:07.880] Like, I uh, the only thing uh, and just just for the record, like, we are talking about millions here.
[00:09:08.040 --> 00:09:15.720] And the only thing that I got myself is a motorbike, which is which is 20k.
[00:09:15.720 --> 00:09:16.920] Okay, well, you know what?
[00:09:16.920 --> 00:09:20.680] I'm pleased that you did buy yourself something because there's something about wealth, right?
[00:09:20.760 --> 00:09:25.720] When you get a lot of this money, there's only so much of it that you can spend on stuff that will make you happy.
[00:09:25.720 --> 00:09:29.960] But it is quite a nice feeling when you get that money and you can buy yourself a treat.
[00:09:29.960 --> 00:09:32.040] But that's that's such a good question.
[00:09:32.040 --> 00:09:53.480] And like, I don't know if you if you feel it that way, but for me, I think that's the reason why I would not sell any future projects is that I want I want to be able to use the money that I earn every month and not have this huge bunch of money coming once and having to deal with that.
[00:09:53.480 --> 00:09:56.760] So that's why I don't really know what's in front of me right now.
[00:09:56.760 --> 00:10:01.560] Like, it's the end of this earn out period linked to the acquisition.
[00:10:01.560 --> 00:10:07.640] So, in a few weeks or a few months, I have to just change my focus, work on new things.
[00:10:07.800 --> 00:10:08.760] I don't know.
[00:10:08.760 --> 00:10:10.200] What are you thinking right now?
[00:10:10.440 --> 00:10:11.960] Are you gonna stay on?
[00:10:11.960 --> 00:10:14.920] Because, like, Guyan won't want you to leave?
[00:10:15.080 --> 00:10:19.400] I'm thinking a lot about Typeframe and Revit.ai.
[00:10:19.800 --> 00:10:30.360] So, the thing is, for about a year, I thought about how to do the same thing we did on Twitter and LinkedIn, but on TikTok.
[00:10:30.680 --> 00:10:34.760] And during a year, I had no idea how to do it.
[00:10:34.760 --> 00:10:41.080] And the thing is, I just came across this company, Typeframe, which was for sale.
[00:10:41.080 --> 00:10:50.320] I acquired it, and along the way, I realized how to turn it into something like a TweetHunter for TikTok.
[00:10:50.640 --> 00:10:53.200] And I'm very excited by this project.
[00:10:53.200 --> 00:10:56.160] I think it can be bigger than TweetHunter.
[00:10:56.160 --> 00:10:57.200] It's very hard.
[00:10:57.200 --> 00:10:58.880] It's much more competitive.
[00:10:59.040 --> 00:11:06.080] I didn't realize that when I started, but like the video editing sphere is just so big.
[00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:09.040] There's a lot of VC money swimming around there.
[00:11:09.040 --> 00:11:09.680] Exactly.
[00:11:09.680 --> 00:11:11.600] Like so many big companies.
[00:11:12.880 --> 00:11:17.360] So I don't know how it's going to work out, but I'm into it.
[00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:25.760] I'm interested because actually thinking about it, where you've gone with TweetHunter from zero to one million, dead exciting.
[00:11:25.760 --> 00:11:27.280] Sale, dead exciting.
[00:11:27.280 --> 00:11:30.240] Then you've got these milestones for two years for this earn out.
[00:11:30.240 --> 00:11:34.560] The kind of people that enjoy the zero to one and also one to ten.
[00:11:34.560 --> 00:11:41.440] Beyond that, it's like, and I feel like you might have found this with typeframes.
[00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:48.160] You enjoy that earlier stage, that challenge, the relishing of how can I figure out a way to make this work?
[00:11:48.160 --> 00:11:51.040] Whereas TweetHunter and Tapio, they're kind of working, right?
[00:11:51.040 --> 00:11:51.760] They're working.
[00:11:51.760 --> 00:11:54.880] You just repeat the same stuff, hire, now you're a manager.
[00:11:54.880 --> 00:12:02.720] Whereas with Typeframes and Revid, you're now doing the stuff that you enjoyed in the early days and that you get the most enjoyment from.
[00:12:03.040 --> 00:12:04.720] Is that sort of a fair assessment?
[00:12:05.040 --> 00:12:06.160] That's exactly that.
[00:12:07.520 --> 00:12:09.200] I'm back to building.
[00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:12.160] I'm leaving the few early stages.
[00:12:12.880 --> 00:12:14.560] The figuring out phase.
[00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:17.840] You have something, you have traction.
[00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:22.160] Typeframe is about 9K in monthly recording revenue.
[00:12:22.160 --> 00:12:23.200] So it's something.
[00:12:23.680 --> 00:12:24.720] It's not nothing.
[00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:32.920] We have subscribers, we have users, and it's this basis to understand how to get bigger, how to grow further.
[00:12:32.920 --> 00:12:34.280] So it's super interesting.
[00:12:29.760 --> 00:12:36.760] Let me actually talk about typeframes and Revid.
[00:12:37.000 --> 00:12:40.120] So typeframes, as you mentioned, you acquired from Lillian.
[00:12:40.280 --> 00:12:41.880] One is something a bit new.
[00:12:41.880 --> 00:12:51.000] It takes text and turns it into video using AI, and then you forked it out into Revid, which is specifically for TikTok.
[00:12:51.000 --> 00:12:57.480] People have these challenges where they've got like a horizontal product where they can fit many verticals and can do many things.
[00:12:57.480 --> 00:12:59.960] And they're like, I don't know how to market to all of these people.
[00:12:59.960 --> 00:13:02.520] Kind of what you did with TweetHunter, which is for Twitter.
[00:13:02.520 --> 00:13:04.120] How do we appeal to LinkedIn?
[00:13:04.120 --> 00:13:07.640] I know New Product does the same thing, essentially.
[00:13:07.640 --> 00:13:15.800] So does this mean, Tebo, you're going to have to do what you did with Twitter in terms of growing a Twitter audience with TikTok using Dogfoot in your own product?
[00:13:15.800 --> 00:13:17.240] That's what I should do.
[00:13:17.240 --> 00:13:19.320] And I'm fading at that.
[00:13:19.720 --> 00:13:20.600] It's so hard.
[00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:26.360] Like, I know that I should try every day to do TikTok videos.
[00:13:26.360 --> 00:13:28.600] And I'm just too lazy.
[00:13:28.600 --> 00:13:30.520] I'm procrastinating on that.
[00:13:31.400 --> 00:13:32.760] I don't think you're lazy, dude.
[00:13:33.640 --> 00:13:37.800] That's being a bit harsh on yourself while you're still working on Tweet Hunter.
[00:13:37.800 --> 00:13:39.960] You've got typeframes and now Revid.
[00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:41.320] You're doing your newsletter.
[00:13:41.320 --> 00:13:43.800] You're still doing your Twitter stuff.
[00:13:43.800 --> 00:13:45.560] And you've got a kid and another one along the way.
[00:13:45.560 --> 00:13:49.480] I don't think lazy is a way to describe yourself, but I see what you're saying.
[00:13:49.480 --> 00:13:55.080] Final thing I want to ask is all of the content that you're sharing so openly.
[00:13:55.080 --> 00:13:55.960] It's amazing.
[00:13:55.960 --> 00:13:59.960] Why are you sharing so much stuff so openly, not only on your newsletter, also on Twitter?
[00:13:59.960 --> 00:14:01.720] How are you dealing with the downsides of that?
[00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:08.920] I think the main reason I do this is because I think the main issue right now is trust.
[00:14:08.920 --> 00:14:16.560] And if you solve trust, you can basically grow any project, any products that you are building.
[00:14:16.880 --> 00:14:29.120] And so I'm doing it because what I want to do above everything else is get the trust of people that want to start their business.
[00:14:29.120 --> 00:14:39.600] And I want to get the trust of those people and at the same time build a suite of tool that will help them grow their business.
[00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:43.040] The main concern is I cannot take a break.
[00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:44.400] I don't have rec.
[00:14:44.400 --> 00:14:45.840] I don't have weekends.
[00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:47.840] I don't have holidays.
[00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:56.880] And my wife is really pissed about that because there's not a week where I can just enjoy some time on the beach with her.
[00:14:56.880 --> 00:15:00.480] But that's basically the life I chose.
[00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:04.880] Are you trying to plan to get out of that a little bit, that way of living?
[00:15:04.880 --> 00:15:10.240] Because you've done it for so many years and it will kind of be nice to have weekends and time off.
[00:15:10.880 --> 00:15:18.400] Yeah, so I build a tool for that, like Twitter helping you to schedule content.
[00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:22.400] But still, it's not working 100%.
[00:15:23.040 --> 00:15:30.720] The thing is, I will have to find a way because with baby two coming in July, I will have to take at least a few weeks off.
[00:15:31.040 --> 00:15:35.760] So I still don't know exactly how I'm going to manage, but I will have to do it.
[00:15:35.760 --> 00:15:41.760] For sure, dude, you can manage because you've just made a shit ton of money with your exit.
[00:15:41.760 --> 00:15:44.000] Like, you can afford to sort of...
[00:15:44.800 --> 00:15:46.400] I know you've got that fire in you.
[00:15:46.400 --> 00:15:47.120] I can feel it.
[00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:48.160] I can see it.
[00:15:48.160 --> 00:15:49.920] I think a lot of people can.
[00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:53.120] But, dude, you've done the work, right?
[00:15:53.120 --> 00:15:54.160] You're there.
[00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:58.720] You've got the money where you can take time off and enjoy that with your family.
[00:15:58.720 --> 00:16:07.880] I think that the issue when you succeed at something is that we have brains that are a little bit like wired in the wrong way.
[00:16:07.880 --> 00:16:09.240] We always want more.
[00:16:09.240 --> 00:16:15.400] And so I have to learn about how you should not want more, which is super hard.
[00:16:16.760 --> 00:16:22.120] I usually do three recommendations at the end of the podcast: a book, a podcast, and Indie Hacker.
[00:16:22.120 --> 00:16:25.160] So I think there are two creators that I really like.
[00:16:25.160 --> 00:16:28.440] You mentioned one, which is who is Mark Luvion.
[00:16:28.440 --> 00:16:33.640] The other one would be Damon, Damon Chen, the founder of Testimonial.
[00:16:33.800 --> 00:16:37.320] Podcast that would be, I think, acquire.
[00:16:37.560 --> 00:16:38.840] Oh, so good.
[00:16:39.480 --> 00:16:40.280] So good, man.
[00:16:40.280 --> 00:16:41.480] I just love the story.
[00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:45.400] And then, if you read, have you got a book that you enjoy, you recommend to people?
[00:16:45.400 --> 00:16:48.920] This is one that it doesn't have to be crazy at work.
[00:16:48.920 --> 00:16:50.840] Tebo, thank you so much, man.
[00:16:50.840 --> 00:16:54.200] I really enjoyed this conversation and all the best for the future.
[00:16:54.200 --> 00:16:55.240] Thank you very much, James.
[00:16:55.240 --> 00:16:56.440] Really enjoyed being here.
[00:16:56.440 --> 00:16:58.200] Thank you for listening to this episode of Indiebites.
[00:16:58.200 --> 00:16:59.960] Tebo was an awesome guest, right?
[00:17:00.280 --> 00:17:03.480] This is one of those where I really struggle to take out some of the best bits.
[00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:11.240] But do not fear, if you really enjoyed it, I've kept all of those juicy bits about growth and Tebo's future plan on the extended version available on the Indiebytes membership.
[00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:12.600] Link is in the show notes.
[00:17:12.600 --> 00:17:14.600] And thanks again to my sponsor, Iman Octopus.
[00:17:14.600 --> 00:17:16.840] And I will see you next week.

Prompt 2: Key Takeaways

Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.

Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...". 

Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive. 

IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}

Prompt 3: Segments

Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.

For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)  
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion

IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
  "segments": [
    {
      "segment_title": "Topic Discussion", 
      "timestamp": "01:15:30",
      "key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
      "segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
    }
  ]
}

Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.

Prompt 4: Media Mentions

Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:

Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)  
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)

DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names

IMPORTANT: 
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
  "media_mentions": [
    {
      "title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
      "category": "Book",
      "author_artist": "N/A",
      "context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
      "context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
      "timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
    }
  ]
}

If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}

Full Transcript

[00:00:01.440 --> 00:00:07.120] He was one of the only ones at Lempire and he had to fight for the deal to happen.
[00:00:07.120 --> 00:00:08.320] And he was so right.
[00:00:08.320 --> 00:00:14.000] I think we were like below 2 million and we are pretty much between 8 and 9 right now.
[00:00:14.000 --> 00:00:19.200] Hello and welcome back to Indiebytes, the podcast wrapping you stories of fellow indie hackers in 15 minutes or less.
[00:00:19.200 --> 00:00:28.960] Today I'm joined by Tebo Louie Luca who is a serial founder most well known for starting TweetHunter and Tapio in 2021 before selling the company in 2022 for 8 figures.
[00:00:28.960 --> 00:00:35.120] Since then Tebow has gone on to acquire an AI video creation tool, TypeFrames, which he has spun into Revid.ai recently.
[00:00:35.120 --> 00:00:42.320] He actually announced after recording this that he's left TweetHunter and is back to focus on his early stage products, which we do touch on in this episode.
[00:00:42.320 --> 00:00:47.600] He's also started a newsletter with over 50,000 subscribers and has over 100,000 Twitter followers.
[00:00:47.600 --> 00:00:50.320] We covered so much ground in this episode, I just couldn't fit it all in.
[00:00:50.320 --> 00:00:54.880] So the full 40-minute conversation is available on the Indiebytes membership for $60 a year.
[00:00:54.880 --> 00:00:57.840] Head to indiebytes.com slash membership to get access.
[00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:04.640] I kicked off this conversation with Tebow asking him if he'd rather have 100,000 Twitter followers or 100,000 newsletter subscribers.
[00:01:04.640 --> 00:01:06.880] He didn't have to think long about his answer.
[00:01:06.880 --> 00:01:09.360] Oh, definitely email subscribers.
[00:01:09.360 --> 00:01:14.880] So if Tebo, who literally started a Twitter grow tool, would prefer an email list, I think you should start building one.
[00:01:14.880 --> 00:01:15.600] And guess what?
[00:01:15.600 --> 00:01:19.360] My sponsor, EmailOctopus, is the perfect tool for you to get started.
[00:01:19.360 --> 00:01:30.960] Their free plan is generous, where you can contact up to 2,500 subscribers for free, and the tool is focused on ease of use, so you don't have to mess around figuring out with all these unnecessary marketing features that some of the other tools tend to push on you.
[00:01:30.960 --> 00:01:37.440] So to get started, head to emailoctopus.com and if you want to upgrade from their free plan, you can get 30% off of code IndieBytes.
[00:01:37.440 --> 00:01:39.280] Let's get into this episode.
[00:01:39.280 --> 00:01:42.960] Tebo, you're a bit of a legend in the IndieMaker sphere right now.
[00:01:42.960 --> 00:01:43.520] How are you doing?
[00:01:43.520 --> 00:01:44.640] Welcome to the pod.
[00:01:44.640 --> 00:01:46.240] Well, thank you, James, for having me.
[00:01:46.240 --> 00:01:47.840] So, let's talk about your past.
[00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:50.800] You are no stranger to failure, Tebo.
[00:01:50.800 --> 00:01:58.000] Now, I think a lot of founders that I've met that have ended up being successful have some sort of failure in their background, especially bootstrappers.
[00:01:58.000 --> 00:01:59.920] They'll fail in some sort of VC website.
[00:02:00.360 --> 00:02:07.320] Do you think this is like a rite of passage for bootstrappers to become successful, to sort of have these failures in their past?
[00:02:07.320 --> 00:02:08.840] I think it's the norm.
[00:02:09.400 --> 00:02:22.040] I think it's like 80 or 90% of people will have to go through failures because if you succeed right away, it's probably a little bit more because you are lucky.
[00:02:22.040 --> 00:02:29.800] And maybe you will struggle with many things later because you didn't go through this hard-suffering part of failing.
[00:02:29.800 --> 00:02:35.960] So, maybe if you ever go through failures, it's going to be harder to deal with that.
[00:02:35.960 --> 00:02:40.760] So, when you first started out with startups, you did everything you could to try and make it work.
[00:02:40.760 --> 00:02:46.760] You did the things you thought that startup founders should do in terms of raising money.
[00:02:46.760 --> 00:02:55.160] You raised 20,000 on a Kickstarter, 200,000 from other investors for your first app for helping kids with chores.
[00:02:55.160 --> 00:02:56.200] And then you did that again.
[00:02:56.200 --> 00:02:58.120] Was there at any point that you enjoyed doing that?
[00:02:58.680 --> 00:03:01.080] Because you thought that was the thing that you had to do?
[00:03:01.080 --> 00:03:01.800] Yeah, I think so.
[00:03:01.800 --> 00:03:05.560] Like, I was playing the idea of the startup founder that I had in my mind.
[00:03:05.560 --> 00:03:10.760] I think the main issue is it took me two years to realize that I was failing.
[00:03:10.760 --> 00:03:17.800] And that's the exact thing that we wanted to change when we got back together with my former co-founder.
[00:03:18.040 --> 00:03:25.240] We basically said if we start a new product and if we fail again, it needs to be two weeks and not two years.
[00:03:25.240 --> 00:03:30.760] And that was the basic of Pony Express and what became TweetHunter.
[00:03:30.760 --> 00:03:31.880] Let's talk about that then.
[00:03:31.880 --> 00:03:41.160] So, when you started this approach of launching one new product every week or every two weeks, how did you know when to move on to something new?
[00:03:41.160 --> 00:03:51.760] Because I think a lot of indie hackers want to try this approach and they start something and they just don't know when to move on to the next thing because they're like, oh, it could work and they sort of keep it alive.
[00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:58.880] I think what's really important is that the default is to create a new project.
[00:03:58.880 --> 00:04:06.480] So, it's not like I will ship a product in two weeks and if it doesn't work out, I will create another one.
[00:04:06.480 --> 00:04:12.560] It's more like I will create a product every one or two weeks until something unexpected happen.
[00:04:12.560 --> 00:04:21.120] So, the default is actually to go to the next product to like continue and continue until something unexpected happened.
[00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:22.560] And that's actually what happened.
[00:04:22.800 --> 00:04:25.440] Tweet Hunter was like the 11th project.
[00:04:25.440 --> 00:04:25.840] Yeah.
[00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:32.800] And it took off so rapidly that it disrupted the entire process that we were into.
[00:04:32.800 --> 00:04:36.640] That launch of TweetHunter, you said you immediately felt the difference with it.
[00:04:36.640 --> 00:04:39.120] You grew revenue really quickly.
[00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:42.800] Why do you think this one, this idea, stood out so much?
[00:04:42.800 --> 00:04:44.560] I think because it actually worked.
[00:04:44.560 --> 00:04:50.080] The products were actually really helping people in what they were trying to achieve.
[00:04:50.080 --> 00:04:52.080] And it was the case for me in the first place.
[00:04:52.080 --> 00:05:01.920] Like, I built a product for me because I realized that Twitter was our first acquisition channel for every single one of our new products.
[00:05:01.920 --> 00:05:04.560] And so I wanted to grow my account.
[00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:07.840] And I built a tool to come up with better tweets.
[00:05:07.840 --> 00:05:08.800] And it worked for me.
[00:05:08.800 --> 00:05:14.080] Like, I was using it every day to come up with tweet inspiration.
[00:05:14.080 --> 00:05:16.720] And that was the case for other people too.
[00:05:16.720 --> 00:05:26.240] The next sort of big inflection point for you was partnering with JK Molina to go from 3 to 20k on one single launch.
[00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:28.960] Do you think this is a good strategy for other people?
[00:05:28.960 --> 00:05:39.400] And with your more recent project, have you been trying to find these influencers that can help grow a product like JK did and like the other chap you work with Taplio on?
[00:05:39.720 --> 00:05:40.680] I really think it is.
[00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:46.920] It was such an interesting strategy that we immediately tried to replicate it when we launched Tapio.
[00:05:47.240 --> 00:05:54.600] What people don't see behind the scene is that we are trying to make this happen a lot more than it's succeeding.
[00:05:55.080 --> 00:05:59.880] One example with that is the last project I'm working on, Revid.ai.
[00:06:00.200 --> 00:06:04.360] I partnered up with a TikToker and he just disappears.
[00:06:04.360 --> 00:06:09.400] The point here is it's hard to set up because so many things can happen.
[00:06:09.400 --> 00:06:15.240] Like creators, like big creators with audiences, are somewhat unreliable.
[00:06:15.240 --> 00:06:27.640] And if you are one of the 10 projects that they're working on and one of the other is skyrocketing, they're gonna just shift to their focus to this one and you're gonna be forgotten.
[00:06:27.640 --> 00:06:28.600] That's true.
[00:06:28.600 --> 00:06:29.480] Yeah, yeah.
[00:06:29.480 --> 00:06:33.960] Just keep in mind through that, like for Tweet Hunter, it was a perfect match.
[00:06:33.960 --> 00:06:36.680] Like it was a perfect thing to do.
[00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:41.400] Obviously, it cannot work on every product.
[00:06:41.400 --> 00:06:46.280] And so in terms of selling, you sell to Guillaume Yabesh of L'Empire.
[00:06:46.280 --> 00:06:47.480] Crazy story.
[00:06:48.200 --> 00:07:01.800] With him in middle school, you went through a broker to try and sell Tweet Hunter and then you ended up messaging Guillaume and said, look, dude, this broker, not quite doing what we need, but are you interested?
[00:07:01.800 --> 00:07:06.120] A few weeks later, a few WhatsApp messages, you get the sale through.
[00:07:06.360 --> 00:07:20.560] What I didn't know at the time is, and I learned about that recently, is that Guillaume was really pushing this deal to happen, but he was one of the only ones at Lempheiger, and he had to fight for the deal to happen.
[00:07:14.680 --> 00:07:21.760] And he was so right.
[00:07:21.760 --> 00:07:34.720] Like right now, when you look at the growth during the earn out period, I think we were like below 2 million in annual recurring revenue, and we are pretty much between 8 and 9 right now.
[00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:39.360] So it was just so, it's so obvious that it's a successful acquisition for them.
[00:07:39.360 --> 00:07:40.480] And you mentioned earn out.
[00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:49.280] If people don't know what an earn out is, it's when you get like a payment upfront for the acquisition, then you have to hit certain revenue milestones to earn the rest of the money at each milestone.
[00:07:49.520 --> 00:07:57.200] It's very, very often like 50% of the deal will happen after the acquisition happened.
[00:07:57.200 --> 00:08:01.360] Like in our case, because we were a very risky acquisition, it was like 80%.
[00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:07.840] So 80% of the money were conditioned to specific revenue milestones that we had to reach.
[00:08:07.840 --> 00:08:13.600] I'm super happy that we reached 90% of them, but it was super stressful.
[00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:22.800] Debo, it's almost like a game where you're unlocking new levels, like unlocking a new weapon in a game, but instead it's just unlocking cash in your bank account.
[00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:26.000] It's suffering that you say that because we actually designed it that way.
[00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:35.120] Because we could have done it like it was, we just look at the revenue at the end of the two years earn out, but we didn't want to do that.
[00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:37.280] Like we were worrying about motivation.
[00:08:37.280 --> 00:08:41.200] And so we needed those milestones and steps.
[00:08:41.520 --> 00:08:48.240] So when you get those, and they're not small chunks of money, I'm guessing, in these milestones.
[00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:51.520] Once you paid your tax bill to the French government, what are you doing with that money?
[00:08:51.600 --> 00:08:53.920] You like putting it aside for your any day, for your kids?
[00:08:53.920 --> 00:08:56.080] Did you buy yourself anything nice?
[00:08:56.320 --> 00:08:58.320] I suck so much at this.
[00:08:58.280 --> 00:09:00.360] Like, I basically didn't do anything.
[00:09:00.520 --> 00:09:07.880] Like, I uh, the only thing uh, and just just for the record, like, we are talking about millions here.
[00:09:08.040 --> 00:09:15.720] And the only thing that I got myself is a motorbike, which is which is 20k.
[00:09:15.720 --> 00:09:16.920] Okay, well, you know what?
[00:09:16.920 --> 00:09:20.680] I'm pleased that you did buy yourself something because there's something about wealth, right?
[00:09:20.760 --> 00:09:25.720] When you get a lot of this money, there's only so much of it that you can spend on stuff that will make you happy.
[00:09:25.720 --> 00:09:29.960] But it is quite a nice feeling when you get that money and you can buy yourself a treat.
[00:09:29.960 --> 00:09:32.040] But that's that's such a good question.
[00:09:32.040 --> 00:09:53.480] And like, I don't know if you if you feel it that way, but for me, I think that's the reason why I would not sell any future projects is that I want I want to be able to use the money that I earn every month and not have this huge bunch of money coming once and having to deal with that.
[00:09:53.480 --> 00:09:56.760] So that's why I don't really know what's in front of me right now.
[00:09:56.760 --> 00:10:01.560] Like, it's the end of this earn out period linked to the acquisition.
[00:10:01.560 --> 00:10:07.640] So, in a few weeks or a few months, I have to just change my focus, work on new things.
[00:10:07.800 --> 00:10:08.760] I don't know.
[00:10:08.760 --> 00:10:10.200] What are you thinking right now?
[00:10:10.440 --> 00:10:11.960] Are you gonna stay on?
[00:10:11.960 --> 00:10:14.920] Because, like, Guyan won't want you to leave?
[00:10:15.080 --> 00:10:19.400] I'm thinking a lot about Typeframe and Revit.ai.
[00:10:19.800 --> 00:10:30.360] So, the thing is, for about a year, I thought about how to do the same thing we did on Twitter and LinkedIn, but on TikTok.
[00:10:30.680 --> 00:10:34.760] And during a year, I had no idea how to do it.
[00:10:34.760 --> 00:10:41.080] And the thing is, I just came across this company, Typeframe, which was for sale.
[00:10:41.080 --> 00:10:50.320] I acquired it, and along the way, I realized how to turn it into something like a TweetHunter for TikTok.
[00:10:50.640 --> 00:10:53.200] And I'm very excited by this project.
[00:10:53.200 --> 00:10:56.160] I think it can be bigger than TweetHunter.
[00:10:56.160 --> 00:10:57.200] It's very hard.
[00:10:57.200 --> 00:10:58.880] It's much more competitive.
[00:10:59.040 --> 00:11:06.080] I didn't realize that when I started, but like the video editing sphere is just so big.
[00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:09.040] There's a lot of VC money swimming around there.
[00:11:09.040 --> 00:11:09.680] Exactly.
[00:11:09.680 --> 00:11:11.600] Like so many big companies.
[00:11:12.880 --> 00:11:17.360] So I don't know how it's going to work out, but I'm into it.
[00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:25.760] I'm interested because actually thinking about it, where you've gone with TweetHunter from zero to one million, dead exciting.
[00:11:25.760 --> 00:11:27.280] Sale, dead exciting.
[00:11:27.280 --> 00:11:30.240] Then you've got these milestones for two years for this earn out.
[00:11:30.240 --> 00:11:34.560] The kind of people that enjoy the zero to one and also one to ten.
[00:11:34.560 --> 00:11:41.440] Beyond that, it's like, and I feel like you might have found this with typeframes.
[00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:48.160] You enjoy that earlier stage, that challenge, the relishing of how can I figure out a way to make this work?
[00:11:48.160 --> 00:11:51.040] Whereas TweetHunter and Tapio, they're kind of working, right?
[00:11:51.040 --> 00:11:51.760] They're working.
[00:11:51.760 --> 00:11:54.880] You just repeat the same stuff, hire, now you're a manager.
[00:11:54.880 --> 00:12:02.720] Whereas with Typeframes and Revid, you're now doing the stuff that you enjoyed in the early days and that you get the most enjoyment from.
[00:12:03.040 --> 00:12:04.720] Is that sort of a fair assessment?
[00:12:05.040 --> 00:12:06.160] That's exactly that.
[00:12:07.520 --> 00:12:09.200] I'm back to building.
[00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:12.160] I'm leaving the few early stages.
[00:12:12.880 --> 00:12:14.560] The figuring out phase.
[00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:17.840] You have something, you have traction.
[00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:22.160] Typeframe is about 9K in monthly recording revenue.
[00:12:22.160 --> 00:12:23.200] So it's something.
[00:12:23.680 --> 00:12:24.720] It's not nothing.
[00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:32.920] We have subscribers, we have users, and it's this basis to understand how to get bigger, how to grow further.
[00:12:32.920 --> 00:12:34.280] So it's super interesting.
[00:12:29.760 --> 00:12:36.760] Let me actually talk about typeframes and Revid.
[00:12:37.000 --> 00:12:40.120] So typeframes, as you mentioned, you acquired from Lillian.
[00:12:40.280 --> 00:12:41.880] One is something a bit new.
[00:12:41.880 --> 00:12:51.000] It takes text and turns it into video using AI, and then you forked it out into Revid, which is specifically for TikTok.
[00:12:51.000 --> 00:12:57.480] People have these challenges where they've got like a horizontal product where they can fit many verticals and can do many things.
[00:12:57.480 --> 00:12:59.960] And they're like, I don't know how to market to all of these people.
[00:12:59.960 --> 00:13:02.520] Kind of what you did with TweetHunter, which is for Twitter.
[00:13:02.520 --> 00:13:04.120] How do we appeal to LinkedIn?
[00:13:04.120 --> 00:13:07.640] I know New Product does the same thing, essentially.
[00:13:07.640 --> 00:13:15.800] So does this mean, Tebo, you're going to have to do what you did with Twitter in terms of growing a Twitter audience with TikTok using Dogfoot in your own product?
[00:13:15.800 --> 00:13:17.240] That's what I should do.
[00:13:17.240 --> 00:13:19.320] And I'm fading at that.
[00:13:19.720 --> 00:13:20.600] It's so hard.
[00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:26.360] Like, I know that I should try every day to do TikTok videos.
[00:13:26.360 --> 00:13:28.600] And I'm just too lazy.
[00:13:28.600 --> 00:13:30.520] I'm procrastinating on that.
[00:13:31.400 --> 00:13:32.760] I don't think you're lazy, dude.
[00:13:33.640 --> 00:13:37.800] That's being a bit harsh on yourself while you're still working on Tweet Hunter.
[00:13:37.800 --> 00:13:39.960] You've got typeframes and now Revid.
[00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:41.320] You're doing your newsletter.
[00:13:41.320 --> 00:13:43.800] You're still doing your Twitter stuff.
[00:13:43.800 --> 00:13:45.560] And you've got a kid and another one along the way.
[00:13:45.560 --> 00:13:49.480] I don't think lazy is a way to describe yourself, but I see what you're saying.
[00:13:49.480 --> 00:13:55.080] Final thing I want to ask is all of the content that you're sharing so openly.
[00:13:55.080 --> 00:13:55.960] It's amazing.
[00:13:55.960 --> 00:13:59.960] Why are you sharing so much stuff so openly, not only on your newsletter, also on Twitter?
[00:13:59.960 --> 00:14:01.720] How are you dealing with the downsides of that?
[00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:08.920] I think the main reason I do this is because I think the main issue right now is trust.
[00:14:08.920 --> 00:14:16.560] And if you solve trust, you can basically grow any project, any products that you are building.
[00:14:16.880 --> 00:14:29.120] And so I'm doing it because what I want to do above everything else is get the trust of people that want to start their business.
[00:14:29.120 --> 00:14:39.600] And I want to get the trust of those people and at the same time build a suite of tool that will help them grow their business.
[00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:43.040] The main concern is I cannot take a break.
[00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:44.400] I don't have rec.
[00:14:44.400 --> 00:14:45.840] I don't have weekends.
[00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:47.840] I don't have holidays.
[00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:56.880] And my wife is really pissed about that because there's not a week where I can just enjoy some time on the beach with her.
[00:14:56.880 --> 00:15:00.480] But that's basically the life I chose.
[00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:04.880] Are you trying to plan to get out of that a little bit, that way of living?
[00:15:04.880 --> 00:15:10.240] Because you've done it for so many years and it will kind of be nice to have weekends and time off.
[00:15:10.880 --> 00:15:18.400] Yeah, so I build a tool for that, like Twitter helping you to schedule content.
[00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:22.400] But still, it's not working 100%.
[00:15:23.040 --> 00:15:30.720] The thing is, I will have to find a way because with baby two coming in July, I will have to take at least a few weeks off.
[00:15:31.040 --> 00:15:35.760] So I still don't know exactly how I'm going to manage, but I will have to do it.
[00:15:35.760 --> 00:15:41.760] For sure, dude, you can manage because you've just made a shit ton of money with your exit.
[00:15:41.760 --> 00:15:44.000] Like, you can afford to sort of...
[00:15:44.800 --> 00:15:46.400] I know you've got that fire in you.
[00:15:46.400 --> 00:15:47.120] I can feel it.
[00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:48.160] I can see it.
[00:15:48.160 --> 00:15:49.920] I think a lot of people can.
[00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:53.120] But, dude, you've done the work, right?
[00:15:53.120 --> 00:15:54.160] You're there.
[00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:58.720] You've got the money where you can take time off and enjoy that with your family.
[00:15:58.720 --> 00:16:07.880] I think that the issue when you succeed at something is that we have brains that are a little bit like wired in the wrong way.
[00:16:07.880 --> 00:16:09.240] We always want more.
[00:16:09.240 --> 00:16:15.400] And so I have to learn about how you should not want more, which is super hard.
[00:16:16.760 --> 00:16:22.120] I usually do three recommendations at the end of the podcast: a book, a podcast, and Indie Hacker.
[00:16:22.120 --> 00:16:25.160] So I think there are two creators that I really like.
[00:16:25.160 --> 00:16:28.440] You mentioned one, which is who is Mark Luvion.
[00:16:28.440 --> 00:16:33.640] The other one would be Damon, Damon Chen, the founder of Testimonial.
[00:16:33.800 --> 00:16:37.320] Podcast that would be, I think, acquire.
[00:16:37.560 --> 00:16:38.840] Oh, so good.
[00:16:39.480 --> 00:16:40.280] So good, man.
[00:16:40.280 --> 00:16:41.480] I just love the story.
[00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:45.400] And then, if you read, have you got a book that you enjoy, you recommend to people?
[00:16:45.400 --> 00:16:48.920] This is one that it doesn't have to be crazy at work.
[00:16:48.920 --> 00:16:50.840] Tebo, thank you so much, man.
[00:16:50.840 --> 00:16:54.200] I really enjoyed this conversation and all the best for the future.
[00:16:54.200 --> 00:16:55.240] Thank you very much, James.
[00:16:55.240 --> 00:16:56.440] Really enjoyed being here.
[00:16:56.440 --> 00:16:58.200] Thank you for listening to this episode of Indiebites.
[00:16:58.200 --> 00:16:59.960] Tebo was an awesome guest, right?
[00:17:00.280 --> 00:17:03.480] This is one of those where I really struggle to take out some of the best bits.
[00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:11.240] But do not fear, if you really enjoyed it, I've kept all of those juicy bits about growth and Tebo's future plan on the extended version available on the Indiebytes membership.
[00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:12.600] Link is in the show notes.
[00:17:12.600 --> 00:17:14.600] And thanks again to my sponsor, Iman Octopus.
[00:17:14.600 --> 00:17:16.840] And I will see you next week.