Arvid Kahl on building a profitable SaaS (Podscan), calm funding and juggling a media business

January 15, 2025

Key Takeaways

Building and launching new projects, even if they don’t become the ’next big thing’, is crucial because each project serves as a stepping stone, providing valuable learnings and interactions that lead to future successes.
The ‘building in public’ approach requires a careful balance between sharing enough to encourage adoption and avoid attracting unwanted competition, a strategy that founders must discover for themselves.
True entrepreneurial growth involves not only focusing on monetary ROI but also consciously allocating time to non-monetary pursuits like family and personal enjoyment, which can lead to a more balanced and fulfilling life.

Segments

Building in Public Strategy (00:02:51)

Key Takeaway: Founders must find a ‘Goldilocks’ balance in sharing information publicly, revealing enough to encourage adoption without oversharing sensitive data that could benefit competitors.
Summary: The discussion focuses on Arvid’s approach to ‘building in public’ with PodScan, exploring the nuances of sharing progress and metrics while mitigating risks from copycats and competition.

Team Building and Funding (00:04:04)

Key Takeaway: Collaborating with talented individuals, even if initially on a contractual basis, can organically evolve into valuable partnerships, and bootstrap-aligned funding can accelerate growth without compromising core principles.
Summary: This segment details how Arvid brought Nick onto his team, transitioning from a freelance arrangement to a close working relationship, and discusses his decision to accept funding from Calm Company, emphasizing its bootstrap-aligned nature.

Media Business and Synergies (00:09:22)

Key Takeaway: Maintaining existing projects, like the Bootstrap Founder media business and Podline, is vital as they can unexpectedly interact with and inform new ventures like PodScan, creating synergistic effects.
Summary: Arvid discusses the ongoing success of his media business, including book and course sales, and the continued operation of Podline, highlighting how learnings from these projects directly influenced the development of PodScan.

Personal Growth and Balance (00:12:14)

Key Takeaway: As founders mature, consciously prioritizing personal well-being, family time, and non-monetary enjoyable activities is as important as business growth, leading to a more fulfilling life.
Summary: The conversation shifts to personal wins in 2024, with Arvid emphasizing the importance of balancing work with family and personal life, and the host sharing his own journey of learning to enjoy non-work activities without guilt.

Advice for Aspiring Founders (00:13:48)

Key Takeaway: Commit 100% to your current project with unwavering belief, as this dedication is the essential catalyst that propels you to the next, even better opportunity.
Summary: Arvid offers advice to aspiring founders, drawing on the example of Podline leading to PodScan, to emphasize the importance of full commitment and passion in current endeavors as the key to future success.

The Goods

If you buy through our links, we may earn a commission.

📚 Zero to Sold (00:00:24.000) - Mentioned as a book Arvid Carl wrote after selling Feedback Panda.

📚 The Mum Test (00:15:19.680) - Mentioned as a book recommendation from previous episodes.

📚 The Sass Playbook (00:15:19.680) - Mentioned as a book recommendation from previous episodes.

📚 The Court of Thorns and Roses (00:15:27.360) - Recommended as a fiction book for enjoyment and perspective.

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Transcript section:
[00:00:01.520 --> 00:00:03.200] Don't shortcut yourself.
[00:00:03.200 --> 00:00:11.760] Give it 100% every single thing you're building should be the thing that is the most amazing and best thing you ever built because that is the stepping stone to the next even better thing.
[00:00:11.760 --> 00:00:17.120] Hello and welcome back to Indie Bytes, the podcast arriving you stories of fellow indie hackers in 15 minutes or less.
[00:00:17.120 --> 00:00:21.120] Today I'm joined by Arvid Carl who's returning to the podcast for the third time.
[00:00:21.120 --> 00:00:27.360] Back in 2019 he just sold Feedback Panda for a life-changing amount of money and then went on to write the book Zero to Sold.
[00:00:27.360 --> 00:00:34.800] In 2023, when he was last on the podcast, he was on full-on creator mode with the Bootstrap Founder and had just released the Embedded Entrepreneur.
[00:00:34.800 --> 00:00:45.040] Now he's still producing content but is also spending time on his SAS PodScan, which is an extremely ambitious tool that transcribes every single podcast and lets you track mentions of your brand.
[00:00:45.040 --> 00:00:49.360] But before we get into this episode with Arvid, I'd like to thank my sponsor, Email Octopus.
[00:00:49.360 --> 00:00:56.720] Email Octopus are an email platform focused on affordability and ease of use without some of the bloated features you'll know that some other email apps have.
[00:00:56.720 --> 00:01:02.080] So you can focus on shipping and growing your audience, which regular listeners will know is essential for growth in the early days.
[00:01:02.080 --> 00:01:07.840] So to get started with an email platform that just gets out of the way, you can contact up to 2,500 people for free.
[00:01:07.840 --> 00:01:11.200] Head to emailopus.com or hit the link in the show notes.
[00:01:11.200 --> 00:01:13.120] Let's get into this episode.
[00:01:13.120 --> 00:01:14.480] Arvid, welcome back to the pod.
[00:01:14.480 --> 00:01:15.200] How are you doing?
[00:01:15.360 --> 00:01:16.560] I'm doing spectacular.
[00:01:17.120 --> 00:01:21.200] Now that you read all the things I've been doing, I don't know why I'm doing this for myself, to be honest.
[00:01:21.200 --> 00:01:25.760] Like all these many thousands of things, but hey, I'm still kicking and I'm still having fun.
[00:01:25.760 --> 00:01:27.760] I'm always happy to be back and talking to you.
[00:01:27.760 --> 00:01:40.560] It was quite interesting because last time we spoke, you said something like, you didn't want to start another SAS because it gave you some anxiety because of the maybe the stress that I've gone through with Feedback Panda, although that was life-changing for you.
[00:01:40.560 --> 00:01:46.160] And you were enjoying that phase of your life where you were doing the writing and helping other people.
[00:01:46.160 --> 00:01:48.240] But now you're back in the SASy, Arvid.
[00:01:48.640 --> 00:01:49.600] How are you finding it?
[00:01:49.600 --> 00:01:54.480] Honestly, building something that helps people do stuff is always enjoyable.
[00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:59.840] And even to the point where sometimes it is stressful to have like a database problem, right?
[00:02:00.760 --> 00:02:10.040] I'm dealing with 50,000 podcast episodes and transcripts for your episodes every single day because that's just how much stuff is out there in the English-speaking world.
[00:02:10.040 --> 00:02:15.800] So that can sometimes be a burden because I can not just easily scale my SaaS, right?
[00:02:15.800 --> 00:02:18.440] I have, oh, yeah, five customers, everything is slow.
[00:02:18.440 --> 00:02:20.840] I can really spend my time on every single thing.
[00:02:20.840 --> 00:02:26.360] Hey, even if I have five customers with PodScan, it's still 50,000 episodes that I need to scan for them.
[00:02:26.360 --> 00:02:35.800] So that part is always, it's high tension, but I can then see just the crazy benefit that these people get out of my work.
[00:02:35.800 --> 00:02:44.760] So it's very obvious that they, oh, I was mentioned here, I reached out to them and I did a sponsoring deal, or I reached out to them and then I now have them in my sales pipeline.
[00:02:44.760 --> 00:02:48.360] I can see the direct consequences of this, which just keeps me going.
[00:02:48.360 --> 00:02:51.080] You're wearing your building in public t-shirt there, Arvid.
[00:02:51.080 --> 00:02:53.720] Are you building in public with PodScan?
[00:02:53.960 --> 00:02:57.160] Like, what scale has it got to that you can share with people?
[00:02:57.160 --> 00:03:00.200] Like, and also, like, are people still sharing their numbers?
[00:03:00.200 --> 00:03:00.760] Is this a thing?
[00:03:00.760 --> 00:03:01.960] I'm seeing it less and less.
[00:03:01.960 --> 00:03:04.360] It's always been a two-sided thing, right?
[00:03:04.360 --> 00:03:07.960] It's always been encouraging people to use your product.
[00:03:07.960 --> 00:03:12.600] If you share your numbers and they see you being successful, they want to see what the thing is that is so successful.
[00:03:12.600 --> 00:03:14.360] And then there's the other side of things.
[00:03:14.360 --> 00:03:20.120] It's the copycats and the competition who see this and then try to extract information that benefits them.
[00:03:20.120 --> 00:03:27.720] It's always a balance here between how much do you share, do you overshare, undershare, or do you share just enough, the kind of Goldilocks thing?
[00:03:27.720 --> 00:03:31.160] And that's for every single founder to find out for themselves.
[00:03:31.160 --> 00:03:37.720] So, just generally, what I do with PodScan is I share my larger strategic outlook.
[00:03:37.720 --> 00:03:42.760] I share experiments, tactical experiments along the way, and how these things fit together.
[00:03:42.760 --> 00:03:46.400] I don't necessarily share numbers, I mean, I share states, right?
[00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:55.520] Right now, I am just so close to being profitable, and that is exciting for a business like this that is hyper-automated.
[00:03:55.840 --> 00:04:03.680] You have been a solo founder for the last couple of years doing your content and launching podline and other things with PodScan.
[00:04:03.680 --> 00:04:04.640] You've got some help.
[00:04:04.640 --> 00:04:05.520] How did that come about?
[00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:06.560] How did Nick come on board?
[00:04:06.880 --> 00:04:09.760] And how has it been having someone as a co-founder?
[00:04:09.920 --> 00:04:12.400] It happened completely outside of the SaaS.
[00:04:12.400 --> 00:04:16.240] So, a couple years ago, I was migrating to YouTube.
[00:04:16.240 --> 00:04:23.920] So, I found Nick in my listenership in my community, and he started helping me out with editing, with thumbnails, and all that.
[00:04:23.920 --> 00:04:26.960] And over time, I was like, Nick, I know you're a great designer.
[00:04:26.960 --> 00:04:28.720] Can you help me maybe with this a little bit?
[00:04:28.720 --> 00:04:30.560] Like, this landing page might need something.
[00:04:30.560 --> 00:04:31.760] And look at this.
[00:04:31.760 --> 00:04:36.240] And that just turned into fully fledged, hey, I have these eight things that need to be done.
[00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:37.360] Start.
[00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:42.320] And it's probably been one of the smartest choices that I made so far because I love being a solopreneur.
[00:04:42.320 --> 00:04:48.320] And a lot of my thinking is around how can I do things without having to rely too much on external sources.
[00:04:48.320 --> 00:04:54.160] But I think I'm reverting a little bit into a hey, if you find people that can do the job well, you should just involve them.
[00:04:54.160 --> 00:05:04.640] I'm curious in Arvid, because this sounds like it started out as a contract relationship, but it now seems I think you said co-founder in your almost co-founder.
[00:05:04.800 --> 00:05:05.520] Almost co-founder.
[00:05:06.160 --> 00:05:08.640] It's still a contractual relationship.
[00:05:08.640 --> 00:05:13.760] And since the business isn't profitable yet, it's not an employment situation either.
[00:05:13.760 --> 00:05:18.400] But that's something that I, you know, realistically, that's just what it's going to end up as.
[00:05:18.400 --> 00:05:23.320] Either a co-founder after the fact or an a you know, high-level employee situation.
[00:05:23.320 --> 00:05:24.240] That's going to be.
[00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:25.920] Now, calm company funding.
[00:05:25.920 --> 00:05:28.240] Arvid, you're the bootstrapped entrepreneur.
[00:05:28.400 --> 00:05:31.000] What are you doing dipping into that filthy funding?
[00:05:31.320 --> 00:05:39.720] It was Tyler Tyler Tringis who talked to me about this because I am invested in the Calm Company fund, in several of their funds.
[00:05:39.720 --> 00:05:44.120] And Tyler came to me and said, Podcast is a really cool idea.
[00:05:44.120 --> 00:05:52.200] Do you think you need some initial support to keep handling this insane amount of data that is coming in?
[00:05:52.200 --> 00:05:53.480] And I talked about this, right?
[00:05:53.480 --> 00:06:03.000] I said 50,000 episodes coming in a day, and all of that requires AI that requires GPUs either on servers that I rent or just on platforms.
[00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:05.640] You know, it's all money that needs to go somewhere.
[00:06:05.640 --> 00:06:07.640] And he was like, Can we speed this up?
[00:06:07.640 --> 00:06:11.720] Can we clean the backlog out faster if we just put some money into this?
[00:06:11.720 --> 00:06:17.000] And I was like, I really want to bootstrap this though because, you know, I have the bootstrap founder.com.
[00:06:17.080 --> 00:06:18.760] Like, we can't do this.
[00:06:18.760 --> 00:06:29.320] But even in Series of Soul, there was in 2020, I talked about there is venture capital, but there is bootstrap-aligned venture capital.
[00:06:29.320 --> 00:06:32.280] And Calm Company has always been in there as earnest capital.
[00:06:32.280 --> 00:06:39.960] And so has Tiny Seed, these kind of accelerators that put money in, get like a tiny share, or even just a safe.
[00:06:39.960 --> 00:06:56.360] They are trying to keep you aligned with the bootstrapping way, which is conserve resources, only spend what you need to spend, grow slowly, grow steadily, but grow reliably instead of waste all your money on marketing and hope for the best and be one of the 100 things in somebody's portfolio.
[00:06:56.360 --> 00:06:57.800] And that I liked.
[00:06:57.800 --> 00:07:03.880] And I knew that with that came far fewer strings attached than with other venture capital.
[00:07:03.880 --> 00:07:04.920] So I went for it.
[00:07:04.920 --> 00:07:06.200] And it's been really helpful.
[00:07:06.200 --> 00:07:10.520] So, I want to, lastly, on Podscan, talk growth.
[00:07:10.520 --> 00:07:12.200] What are you working on, Arvid?
[00:07:12.200 --> 00:07:13.560] How are you marketing?
[00:07:13.880 --> 00:07:15.440] What's your future plans for it?
[00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:24.000] It's predictable and steady, and this is growth that has happened pre-let's call it opening up the business.
[00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:28.880] I talked about this on my podcast, and I had all my data kind of behind the paywall, right?
[00:07:28.880 --> 00:07:41.040] Like, if you wanted to know the size of a podcast listenership, if you wanted to know demographics, if you wanted to know anything about the show, get the transcripts, you had to sign up, and you had to know it was there to be able to understand that you could get there.
[00:07:41.040 --> 00:07:45.040] I recently flipped this because I was like, this is not sustainable.
[00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:53.600] Like, my marketing as a founder, as the bootstrap founder blogger, and as me on Twitter, that can only get me so far.
[00:07:53.600 --> 00:08:01.040] Having people sign up for my software business that don't know me at all, that's like the crowning achievement of my marketing campaign.
[00:08:01.040 --> 00:08:07.760] So, right now, one of the most recent things I did was to track charts, like the podcast charts for Apple and Spotify.
[00:08:07.760 --> 00:08:11.200] You know, the typical software founder thing, that shouldn't be too hard.
[00:08:11.200 --> 00:08:12.480] Turned out it wasn't.
[00:08:12.480 --> 00:08:13.680] I mean, it's still super hard.
[00:08:13.680 --> 00:08:16.640] There's 170 countries that Apple has charts in.
[00:08:16.640 --> 00:08:21.680] There's 111 or so different kinds of charts per country.
[00:08:21.680 --> 00:08:27.920] So, that's 18,000 different combinations, and they all have 200 items ranked.
[00:08:27.920 --> 00:08:32.320] So, that is what, like 3.6 million items every single day.
[00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:34.160] That is the level of data complexity.
[00:08:34.160 --> 00:08:39.120] And yet again, here is something that I jump into that has millions of data points right from the get-go.
[00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:47.280] So, it was a challenge to build, but Podscan now supports chart tracking for every single podcast that is on the platform in all these countries, both on Apple and Spotify.
[00:08:47.280 --> 00:08:49.040] Arvid, have you announced this?
[00:08:49.040 --> 00:08:51.760] The chart feature that you just told me how much from Mammoth?
[00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:56.560] I mean, hopefully, by the time this airs, I've announced this.
[00:08:56.560 --> 00:08:58.720] But you know what it is for a technical founder?
[00:08:58.720 --> 00:09:01.400] It's always like, ah, this could be better, or this could be more stable.
[00:09:01.400 --> 00:09:05.160] Like, I have to, this database is getting slightly slower.
[00:09:05.160 --> 00:09:05.800] What's the problem?
[00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:07.000] And that's like two days spent on that.
[00:09:07.160 --> 00:09:17.400] It's just, yeah, I need to force myself to deal with these things less as a perfectionist and more as an entrepreneur, which is like, let's see, right?
[00:09:17.400 --> 00:09:22.360] Let's move on to the Bootstrap founder, your media business.
[00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:23.240] How's that going?
[00:09:23.240 --> 00:09:25.000] Are you still selling books?
[00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:27.880] How are you making sure that's still running in the background?
[00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:29.400] I force myself.
[00:09:29.640 --> 00:09:30.440] It's very easy.
[00:09:30.440 --> 00:09:37.160] I force myself to put out at least one podcast/slash newsletter episode every single week, which is my solo thing on Fridays.
[00:09:37.160 --> 00:09:40.680] That is a streak of 368 episodes.
[00:09:40.680 --> 00:09:43.400] Like, I've never not had a week when I didn't publish one.
[00:09:43.400 --> 00:09:48.200] I'm not going to break that streak, but I also don't overextend.
[00:09:48.440 --> 00:09:51.800] I used to do an interview every week and a solo show every week.
[00:09:51.800 --> 00:09:53.320] Interviews now are sporadic.
[00:09:53.320 --> 00:09:57.720] I have a sponsor, so I have a certain quota of things that I want to get going as well.
[00:09:57.720 --> 00:10:03.800] But if I'm done with the quota and I feel like I need to spend more time on other things, I do other things, right?
[00:10:03.800 --> 00:10:05.880] It's just always in the balance to me.
[00:10:05.880 --> 00:10:13.480] And that I brainstorm these things very easily because there's so much happening with PodScan and me being in the community that I always have a topic.
[00:10:13.480 --> 00:10:16.920] I always have something to talk about for 10-15 minutes, no problem.
[00:10:16.920 --> 00:10:18.520] Is the media business growing still?
[00:10:19.000 --> 00:10:19.400] Oh, yeah.
[00:10:19.400 --> 00:10:20.280] Yeah, it's still growing.
[00:10:21.080 --> 00:10:25.320] It stagnated a little bit when I changed the cadence of my interviews.
[00:10:25.320 --> 00:10:32.920] But the intensity of which people listen to the show and comment on those things and send me emails, that's still very much the same.
[00:10:32.920 --> 00:10:39.960] Books are still selling, courses still selling, not as much as before because these things have the shelf life, I guess.
[00:10:39.960 --> 00:10:41.640] And I don't force them.
[00:10:41.640 --> 00:10:43.320] I don't really advertise them much.
[00:10:43.320 --> 00:10:49.200] If people find them, then they buy them, but it's also not something that I constantly push.
[00:10:49.200 --> 00:10:50.880] Podline's still going as well, right?
[00:10:44.680 --> 00:10:52.400] Yeah, it's crazy.
[00:10:52.720 --> 00:10:53.520] Still running.
[00:10:53.520 --> 00:11:03.440] There's still people sending messages to the podcasts or podcasts that are collecting phone messages or little text messages, all that kind of stuff.
[00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:04.240] It's crazy.
[00:11:04.240 --> 00:11:08.720] I think my last deployment was in February 2024.
[00:11:08.720 --> 00:11:11.520] Yet it is still running uninterrupted.
[00:11:11.520 --> 00:11:13.680] Thank you, Laravel and PHP.
[00:11:13.680 --> 00:11:16.800] The learnings that I had from Podline directly led to PodScan.
[00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:22.320] Podline was like, I started transcribing messages because people wanted to send messages to podcasts, right?
[00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:26.320] And in learning how to transcribe, it's like, hmm, I could use this and transcribe everything, right?
[00:11:26.560 --> 00:11:27.920] It's just, and that's the thing.
[00:11:27.920 --> 00:11:34.640] That's why I don't stop these other projects because I know that each project potentially interacts with the other.
[00:11:34.640 --> 00:11:44.640] Like having a podcast right now allows me to see PodScan, this tool for podcasters and marketing agencies, from the perspective of a podcaster.
[00:11:44.640 --> 00:11:46.640] I know what my data looks like.
[00:11:46.640 --> 00:11:49.760] It's all these little things that are interconnected.
[00:11:49.760 --> 00:12:02.560] And I think that's why, as an indie founder, I would never give up another project in hope for some bigger success with another one because they always interact in benign ways that you just cannot foresee.
[00:12:02.560 --> 00:12:10.080] It just happens to be at some point that you kind of pull it all together and you see, oh, wow, there actually is this kind of synergetic effect here.
[00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:14.720] So, Arvi, we're kind of recording this a year after we recorded the previous one.
[00:12:14.720 --> 00:12:16.480] It comes at the start of the year.
[00:12:16.480 --> 00:12:22.960] So, I wondered if we could just put you on the spot quickly, talk about some of the wins this year.
[00:12:23.120 --> 00:12:26.800] Biggest win in 2024 was being able to start a business and get funding.
[00:12:27.040 --> 00:12:28.720] I think that has been crazy.
[00:12:28.720 --> 00:12:29.680] I never thought I would.
[00:12:29.880 --> 00:12:41.800] But also, I think, and this is more like almost a metaphysical thing, allowing myself to take time away from all the stuff, all the professional work that I do, and spend it with my family, spend it with my dog.
[00:12:41.800 --> 00:12:44.600] Because prior to this, it would have been work, work, work, work, work, work, work.
[00:12:44.600 --> 00:12:47.800] But now it's, well, where's that balance and where is it leading me?
[00:12:47.800 --> 00:12:48.360] Right.
[00:12:48.360 --> 00:12:55.240] And I find now that I'm 40, I want to be more conscious of what I spent my time on and what the ROI of this is.
[00:12:55.240 --> 00:13:00.280] Yeah, I'd almost flip what you're saying on its head rather than like ROI on the things you do more.
[00:13:00.280 --> 00:13:07.560] Do things that don't have any monetary ROI, things that you can just enjoy and not feel guilty about doing.
[00:13:07.560 --> 00:13:08.920] I do so much of this.
[00:13:08.920 --> 00:13:30.120] Like in my year in review, I essentially talked about this is a year where I focused on me and my work, took a backseat and I coasted, spent a lot of time and money on cycling, got a girlfriend, spent a lot of time with her in the US and going on holidays and just enjoying our time together rather than I've got to work, work, work and hustle, which I do enjoy.
[00:13:30.120 --> 00:13:32.360] And I feel like that's part of my life that's kind of missing.
[00:13:32.360 --> 00:13:35.960] But I've learned to not feel guilty about that time.
[00:13:36.280 --> 00:13:48.120] And finally, I guess if we can leave people with some advice, with some inspiration, if they're at a stage where they want to take the next step with their business, they want to leave their job.
[00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:49.080] What opportunities?
[00:13:49.080 --> 00:13:56.360] How can we inspire some people to keep working hard on their projects, launch things, enjoy themselves?
[00:13:56.520 --> 00:14:00.280] I can maybe get back to the story of Podline.
[00:14:00.280 --> 00:14:08.680] I started Podline because I thought I wanted to have more people call into my podcast and leave a message that I can play on my podcast and respond.
[00:14:08.680 --> 00:14:12.520] But when I started Podline, when I was building it, I was like, oh, this is going to be the biggest thing.
[00:14:12.520 --> 00:14:14.360] It's going to be my next big business.
[00:14:14.360 --> 00:14:16.400] And then I was like, hmm, how am I going to market this?
[00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:18.960] And from them, from that point came PodScan.
[00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:25.280] And now when I look at PodScan now, or Podline Now, a year after, it's like, it's a blip.
[00:14:25.280 --> 00:14:34.640] You never know where you're going to be three months from now, but you should know that if you want to be somewhere three months from now, you should keep working on the thing that you're working on right now.
[00:14:34.640 --> 00:14:36.720] You should put all your efforts into it.
[00:14:37.040 --> 00:14:41.920] What I'm trying to say is, in retrospect, I know that I was thinking, oh, this is going to be the greatest thing, but it wasn't.
[00:14:41.920 --> 00:14:43.920] But I was supposed to think that.
[00:14:43.920 --> 00:14:45.200] I had to think that.
[00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:57.520] I had to love the thing and build it and build it with as much energy as I could exactly at that moment because only that moved me to the next step that I needed to go to then get to the next project.
[00:14:57.520 --> 00:14:59.200] Don't shortcut yourself.
[00:14:59.200 --> 00:15:00.160] Give it 100%.
[00:15:00.160 --> 00:15:07.920] Every single thing you're building should be the thing that is the most amazing and best thing you ever built because that is the stepping stone to the next even better thing.
[00:15:08.560 --> 00:15:10.480] Now, you know how this show ends.
[00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:12.160] I end on three recommendations.
[00:15:12.160 --> 00:15:14.560] A book, a podcast, and an indie hacker.
[00:15:14.560 --> 00:15:19.680] The last two episodes, the books you've done are The Mum Test and The Sass Playbook.
[00:15:19.680 --> 00:15:22.880] Podcast, The Indie Hackers Pod, and then The Greatest Generation.
[00:15:22.880 --> 00:15:26.240] And then Indie Hackers, Sergio Matei and Tony Din.
[00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:27.360] Okay, let me start with the book.
[00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:30.240] I was just going to recommend The Court of Thorns and Roses.
[00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:36.560] This book this series has been spectacular because it has nothing to do with indie hacking, with software entrepreneurship.
[00:15:36.560 --> 00:15:41.760] And there are great books out there, but reading fiction is just so enjoyable.
[00:15:41.760 --> 00:16:01.800] It's just such a nice way to pull you out of this very cerebral, very thinky business technology world and move you into a much more emotionally charged, let's just call it that, fantasy world where other things are important and you see that other people's problems, even if they're fictitious, they're also problems, they're also real.
[00:16:01.800 --> 00:16:03.640] It just gives you a different perspective.
[00:16:03.640 --> 00:16:05.640] And I say this as a non-fiction author.
[00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:07.320] Okay, podcast you've been listening to.
[00:16:07.640 --> 00:16:11.080] I've been enjoying a podcast called The Economics of Everyday Things.
[00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:12.680] Indie Hacker, what have you got?
[00:16:12.680 --> 00:16:18.280] I'm gonna go with Tyler Tringus, and not because he sponsored or funded my business.
[00:16:18.280 --> 00:16:19.800] That's not what it is.
[00:16:19.800 --> 00:16:22.840] But Tyler very recently has started building businesses again.
[00:16:22.840 --> 00:16:24.440] And I think that's super exciting.
[00:16:24.440 --> 00:16:28.760] Arvid, thank you again for being an incredible guest, a great friend.
[00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:30.600] And I guess we'll do this same time next year.
[00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:31.640] Yeah, same time next year.
[00:16:31.640 --> 00:16:32.520] See you around.
[00:16:33.160 --> 00:16:38.200] Thank you for listening to this episode of Indie Bytes and a big thank you to my sponsor, Email Oxford, for making the show happen.
[00:16:38.200 --> 00:16:39.080] That's all from me.
[00:16:39.080 --> 00:16:40.840] See you in the next episode.

Prompt 2: Key Takeaways

Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.

Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...". 

Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive. 

IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}

Prompt 3: Segments


Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.

For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)  
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion

IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
  "segments": [
    {
      "segment_title": "Topic Discussion", 
      "timestamp": "01:15:30",
      "key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
      "segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
    }
  ]
}

Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.

Prompt 4: Media Mentions

Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:

Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)  
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)

DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names

IMPORTANT: 
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
  "media_mentions": [
    {
      "title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
      "category": "Book",
      "author_artist": "N/A",
      "context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
      "context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
      "timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
    }
  ]
}

If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}

Full Transcript

[00:00:01.520 --> 00:00:03.200] Don't shortcut yourself.
[00:00:03.200 --> 00:00:11.760] Give it 100% every single thing you're building should be the thing that is the most amazing and best thing you ever built because that is the stepping stone to the next even better thing.
[00:00:11.760 --> 00:00:17.120] Hello and welcome back to Indie Bytes, the podcast arriving you stories of fellow indie hackers in 15 minutes or less.
[00:00:17.120 --> 00:00:21.120] Today I'm joined by Arvid Carl who's returning to the podcast for the third time.
[00:00:21.120 --> 00:00:27.360] Back in 2019 he just sold Feedback Panda for a life-changing amount of money and then went on to write the book Zero to Sold.
[00:00:27.360 --> 00:00:34.800] In 2023, when he was last on the podcast, he was on full-on creator mode with the Bootstrap Founder and had just released the Embedded Entrepreneur.
[00:00:34.800 --> 00:00:45.040] Now he's still producing content but is also spending time on his SAS PodScan, which is an extremely ambitious tool that transcribes every single podcast and lets you track mentions of your brand.
[00:00:45.040 --> 00:00:49.360] But before we get into this episode with Arvid, I'd like to thank my sponsor, Email Octopus.
[00:00:49.360 --> 00:00:56.720] Email Octopus are an email platform focused on affordability and ease of use without some of the bloated features you'll know that some other email apps have.
[00:00:56.720 --> 00:01:02.080] So you can focus on shipping and growing your audience, which regular listeners will know is essential for growth in the early days.
[00:01:02.080 --> 00:01:07.840] So to get started with an email platform that just gets out of the way, you can contact up to 2,500 people for free.
[00:01:07.840 --> 00:01:11.200] Head to emailopus.com or hit the link in the show notes.
[00:01:11.200 --> 00:01:13.120] Let's get into this episode.
[00:01:13.120 --> 00:01:14.480] Arvid, welcome back to the pod.
[00:01:14.480 --> 00:01:15.200] How are you doing?
[00:01:15.360 --> 00:01:16.560] I'm doing spectacular.
[00:01:17.120 --> 00:01:21.200] Now that you read all the things I've been doing, I don't know why I'm doing this for myself, to be honest.
[00:01:21.200 --> 00:01:25.760] Like all these many thousands of things, but hey, I'm still kicking and I'm still having fun.
[00:01:25.760 --> 00:01:27.760] I'm always happy to be back and talking to you.
[00:01:27.760 --> 00:01:40.560] It was quite interesting because last time we spoke, you said something like, you didn't want to start another SAS because it gave you some anxiety because of the maybe the stress that I've gone through with Feedback Panda, although that was life-changing for you.
[00:01:40.560 --> 00:01:46.160] And you were enjoying that phase of your life where you were doing the writing and helping other people.
[00:01:46.160 --> 00:01:48.240] But now you're back in the SASy, Arvid.
[00:01:48.640 --> 00:01:49.600] How are you finding it?
[00:01:49.600 --> 00:01:54.480] Honestly, building something that helps people do stuff is always enjoyable.
[00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:59.840] And even to the point where sometimes it is stressful to have like a database problem, right?
[00:02:00.760 --> 00:02:10.040] I'm dealing with 50,000 podcast episodes and transcripts for your episodes every single day because that's just how much stuff is out there in the English-speaking world.
[00:02:10.040 --> 00:02:15.800] So that can sometimes be a burden because I can not just easily scale my SaaS, right?
[00:02:15.800 --> 00:02:18.440] I have, oh, yeah, five customers, everything is slow.
[00:02:18.440 --> 00:02:20.840] I can really spend my time on every single thing.
[00:02:20.840 --> 00:02:26.360] Hey, even if I have five customers with PodScan, it's still 50,000 episodes that I need to scan for them.
[00:02:26.360 --> 00:02:35.800] So that part is always, it's high tension, but I can then see just the crazy benefit that these people get out of my work.
[00:02:35.800 --> 00:02:44.760] So it's very obvious that they, oh, I was mentioned here, I reached out to them and I did a sponsoring deal, or I reached out to them and then I now have them in my sales pipeline.
[00:02:44.760 --> 00:02:48.360] I can see the direct consequences of this, which just keeps me going.
[00:02:48.360 --> 00:02:51.080] You're wearing your building in public t-shirt there, Arvid.
[00:02:51.080 --> 00:02:53.720] Are you building in public with PodScan?
[00:02:53.960 --> 00:02:57.160] Like, what scale has it got to that you can share with people?
[00:02:57.160 --> 00:03:00.200] Like, and also, like, are people still sharing their numbers?
[00:03:00.200 --> 00:03:00.760] Is this a thing?
[00:03:00.760 --> 00:03:01.960] I'm seeing it less and less.
[00:03:01.960 --> 00:03:04.360] It's always been a two-sided thing, right?
[00:03:04.360 --> 00:03:07.960] It's always been encouraging people to use your product.
[00:03:07.960 --> 00:03:12.600] If you share your numbers and they see you being successful, they want to see what the thing is that is so successful.
[00:03:12.600 --> 00:03:14.360] And then there's the other side of things.
[00:03:14.360 --> 00:03:20.120] It's the copycats and the competition who see this and then try to extract information that benefits them.
[00:03:20.120 --> 00:03:27.720] It's always a balance here between how much do you share, do you overshare, undershare, or do you share just enough, the kind of Goldilocks thing?
[00:03:27.720 --> 00:03:31.160] And that's for every single founder to find out for themselves.
[00:03:31.160 --> 00:03:37.720] So, just generally, what I do with PodScan is I share my larger strategic outlook.
[00:03:37.720 --> 00:03:42.760] I share experiments, tactical experiments along the way, and how these things fit together.
[00:03:42.760 --> 00:03:46.400] I don't necessarily share numbers, I mean, I share states, right?
[00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:55.520] Right now, I am just so close to being profitable, and that is exciting for a business like this that is hyper-automated.
[00:03:55.840 --> 00:04:03.680] You have been a solo founder for the last couple of years doing your content and launching podline and other things with PodScan.
[00:04:03.680 --> 00:04:04.640] You've got some help.
[00:04:04.640 --> 00:04:05.520] How did that come about?
[00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:06.560] How did Nick come on board?
[00:04:06.880 --> 00:04:09.760] And how has it been having someone as a co-founder?
[00:04:09.920 --> 00:04:12.400] It happened completely outside of the SaaS.
[00:04:12.400 --> 00:04:16.240] So, a couple years ago, I was migrating to YouTube.
[00:04:16.240 --> 00:04:23.920] So, I found Nick in my listenership in my community, and he started helping me out with editing, with thumbnails, and all that.
[00:04:23.920 --> 00:04:26.960] And over time, I was like, Nick, I know you're a great designer.
[00:04:26.960 --> 00:04:28.720] Can you help me maybe with this a little bit?
[00:04:28.720 --> 00:04:30.560] Like, this landing page might need something.
[00:04:30.560 --> 00:04:31.760] And look at this.
[00:04:31.760 --> 00:04:36.240] And that just turned into fully fledged, hey, I have these eight things that need to be done.
[00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:37.360] Start.
[00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:42.320] And it's probably been one of the smartest choices that I made so far because I love being a solopreneur.
[00:04:42.320 --> 00:04:48.320] And a lot of my thinking is around how can I do things without having to rely too much on external sources.
[00:04:48.320 --> 00:04:54.160] But I think I'm reverting a little bit into a hey, if you find people that can do the job well, you should just involve them.
[00:04:54.160 --> 00:05:04.640] I'm curious in Arvid, because this sounds like it started out as a contract relationship, but it now seems I think you said co-founder in your almost co-founder.
[00:05:04.800 --> 00:05:05.520] Almost co-founder.
[00:05:06.160 --> 00:05:08.640] It's still a contractual relationship.
[00:05:08.640 --> 00:05:13.760] And since the business isn't profitable yet, it's not an employment situation either.
[00:05:13.760 --> 00:05:18.400] But that's something that I, you know, realistically, that's just what it's going to end up as.
[00:05:18.400 --> 00:05:23.320] Either a co-founder after the fact or an a you know, high-level employee situation.
[00:05:23.320 --> 00:05:24.240] That's going to be.
[00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:25.920] Now, calm company funding.
[00:05:25.920 --> 00:05:28.240] Arvid, you're the bootstrapped entrepreneur.
[00:05:28.400 --> 00:05:31.000] What are you doing dipping into that filthy funding?
[00:05:31.320 --> 00:05:39.720] It was Tyler Tyler Tringis who talked to me about this because I am invested in the Calm Company fund, in several of their funds.
[00:05:39.720 --> 00:05:44.120] And Tyler came to me and said, Podcast is a really cool idea.
[00:05:44.120 --> 00:05:52.200] Do you think you need some initial support to keep handling this insane amount of data that is coming in?
[00:05:52.200 --> 00:05:53.480] And I talked about this, right?
[00:05:53.480 --> 00:06:03.000] I said 50,000 episodes coming in a day, and all of that requires AI that requires GPUs either on servers that I rent or just on platforms.
[00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:05.640] You know, it's all money that needs to go somewhere.
[00:06:05.640 --> 00:06:07.640] And he was like, Can we speed this up?
[00:06:07.640 --> 00:06:11.720] Can we clean the backlog out faster if we just put some money into this?
[00:06:11.720 --> 00:06:17.000] And I was like, I really want to bootstrap this though because, you know, I have the bootstrap founder.com.
[00:06:17.080 --> 00:06:18.760] Like, we can't do this.
[00:06:18.760 --> 00:06:29.320] But even in Series of Soul, there was in 2020, I talked about there is venture capital, but there is bootstrap-aligned venture capital.
[00:06:29.320 --> 00:06:32.280] And Calm Company has always been in there as earnest capital.
[00:06:32.280 --> 00:06:39.960] And so has Tiny Seed, these kind of accelerators that put money in, get like a tiny share, or even just a safe.
[00:06:39.960 --> 00:06:56.360] They are trying to keep you aligned with the bootstrapping way, which is conserve resources, only spend what you need to spend, grow slowly, grow steadily, but grow reliably instead of waste all your money on marketing and hope for the best and be one of the 100 things in somebody's portfolio.
[00:06:56.360 --> 00:06:57.800] And that I liked.
[00:06:57.800 --> 00:07:03.880] And I knew that with that came far fewer strings attached than with other venture capital.
[00:07:03.880 --> 00:07:04.920] So I went for it.
[00:07:04.920 --> 00:07:06.200] And it's been really helpful.
[00:07:06.200 --> 00:07:10.520] So, I want to, lastly, on Podscan, talk growth.
[00:07:10.520 --> 00:07:12.200] What are you working on, Arvid?
[00:07:12.200 --> 00:07:13.560] How are you marketing?
[00:07:13.880 --> 00:07:15.440] What's your future plans for it?
[00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:24.000] It's predictable and steady, and this is growth that has happened pre-let's call it opening up the business.
[00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:28.880] I talked about this on my podcast, and I had all my data kind of behind the paywall, right?
[00:07:28.880 --> 00:07:41.040] Like, if you wanted to know the size of a podcast listenership, if you wanted to know demographics, if you wanted to know anything about the show, get the transcripts, you had to sign up, and you had to know it was there to be able to understand that you could get there.
[00:07:41.040 --> 00:07:45.040] I recently flipped this because I was like, this is not sustainable.
[00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:53.600] Like, my marketing as a founder, as the bootstrap founder blogger, and as me on Twitter, that can only get me so far.
[00:07:53.600 --> 00:08:01.040] Having people sign up for my software business that don't know me at all, that's like the crowning achievement of my marketing campaign.
[00:08:01.040 --> 00:08:07.760] So, right now, one of the most recent things I did was to track charts, like the podcast charts for Apple and Spotify.
[00:08:07.760 --> 00:08:11.200] You know, the typical software founder thing, that shouldn't be too hard.
[00:08:11.200 --> 00:08:12.480] Turned out it wasn't.
[00:08:12.480 --> 00:08:13.680] I mean, it's still super hard.
[00:08:13.680 --> 00:08:16.640] There's 170 countries that Apple has charts in.
[00:08:16.640 --> 00:08:21.680] There's 111 or so different kinds of charts per country.
[00:08:21.680 --> 00:08:27.920] So, that's 18,000 different combinations, and they all have 200 items ranked.
[00:08:27.920 --> 00:08:32.320] So, that is what, like 3.6 million items every single day.
[00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:34.160] That is the level of data complexity.
[00:08:34.160 --> 00:08:39.120] And yet again, here is something that I jump into that has millions of data points right from the get-go.
[00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:47.280] So, it was a challenge to build, but Podscan now supports chart tracking for every single podcast that is on the platform in all these countries, both on Apple and Spotify.
[00:08:47.280 --> 00:08:49.040] Arvid, have you announced this?
[00:08:49.040 --> 00:08:51.760] The chart feature that you just told me how much from Mammoth?
[00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:56.560] I mean, hopefully, by the time this airs, I've announced this.
[00:08:56.560 --> 00:08:58.720] But you know what it is for a technical founder?
[00:08:58.720 --> 00:09:01.400] It's always like, ah, this could be better, or this could be more stable.
[00:09:01.400 --> 00:09:05.160] Like, I have to, this database is getting slightly slower.
[00:09:05.160 --> 00:09:05.800] What's the problem?
[00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:07.000] And that's like two days spent on that.
[00:09:07.160 --> 00:09:17.400] It's just, yeah, I need to force myself to deal with these things less as a perfectionist and more as an entrepreneur, which is like, let's see, right?
[00:09:17.400 --> 00:09:22.360] Let's move on to the Bootstrap founder, your media business.
[00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:23.240] How's that going?
[00:09:23.240 --> 00:09:25.000] Are you still selling books?
[00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:27.880] How are you making sure that's still running in the background?
[00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:29.400] I force myself.
[00:09:29.640 --> 00:09:30.440] It's very easy.
[00:09:30.440 --> 00:09:37.160] I force myself to put out at least one podcast/slash newsletter episode every single week, which is my solo thing on Fridays.
[00:09:37.160 --> 00:09:40.680] That is a streak of 368 episodes.
[00:09:40.680 --> 00:09:43.400] Like, I've never not had a week when I didn't publish one.
[00:09:43.400 --> 00:09:48.200] I'm not going to break that streak, but I also don't overextend.
[00:09:48.440 --> 00:09:51.800] I used to do an interview every week and a solo show every week.
[00:09:51.800 --> 00:09:53.320] Interviews now are sporadic.
[00:09:53.320 --> 00:09:57.720] I have a sponsor, so I have a certain quota of things that I want to get going as well.
[00:09:57.720 --> 00:10:03.800] But if I'm done with the quota and I feel like I need to spend more time on other things, I do other things, right?
[00:10:03.800 --> 00:10:05.880] It's just always in the balance to me.
[00:10:05.880 --> 00:10:13.480] And that I brainstorm these things very easily because there's so much happening with PodScan and me being in the community that I always have a topic.
[00:10:13.480 --> 00:10:16.920] I always have something to talk about for 10-15 minutes, no problem.
[00:10:16.920 --> 00:10:18.520] Is the media business growing still?
[00:10:19.000 --> 00:10:19.400] Oh, yeah.
[00:10:19.400 --> 00:10:20.280] Yeah, it's still growing.
[00:10:21.080 --> 00:10:25.320] It stagnated a little bit when I changed the cadence of my interviews.
[00:10:25.320 --> 00:10:32.920] But the intensity of which people listen to the show and comment on those things and send me emails, that's still very much the same.
[00:10:32.920 --> 00:10:39.960] Books are still selling, courses still selling, not as much as before because these things have the shelf life, I guess.
[00:10:39.960 --> 00:10:41.640] And I don't force them.
[00:10:41.640 --> 00:10:43.320] I don't really advertise them much.
[00:10:43.320 --> 00:10:49.200] If people find them, then they buy them, but it's also not something that I constantly push.
[00:10:49.200 --> 00:10:50.880] Podline's still going as well, right?
[00:10:44.680 --> 00:10:52.400] Yeah, it's crazy.
[00:10:52.720 --> 00:10:53.520] Still running.
[00:10:53.520 --> 00:11:03.440] There's still people sending messages to the podcasts or podcasts that are collecting phone messages or little text messages, all that kind of stuff.
[00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:04.240] It's crazy.
[00:11:04.240 --> 00:11:08.720] I think my last deployment was in February 2024.
[00:11:08.720 --> 00:11:11.520] Yet it is still running uninterrupted.
[00:11:11.520 --> 00:11:13.680] Thank you, Laravel and PHP.
[00:11:13.680 --> 00:11:16.800] The learnings that I had from Podline directly led to PodScan.
[00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:22.320] Podline was like, I started transcribing messages because people wanted to send messages to podcasts, right?
[00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:26.320] And in learning how to transcribe, it's like, hmm, I could use this and transcribe everything, right?
[00:11:26.560 --> 00:11:27.920] It's just, and that's the thing.
[00:11:27.920 --> 00:11:34.640] That's why I don't stop these other projects because I know that each project potentially interacts with the other.
[00:11:34.640 --> 00:11:44.640] Like having a podcast right now allows me to see PodScan, this tool for podcasters and marketing agencies, from the perspective of a podcaster.
[00:11:44.640 --> 00:11:46.640] I know what my data looks like.
[00:11:46.640 --> 00:11:49.760] It's all these little things that are interconnected.
[00:11:49.760 --> 00:12:02.560] And I think that's why, as an indie founder, I would never give up another project in hope for some bigger success with another one because they always interact in benign ways that you just cannot foresee.
[00:12:02.560 --> 00:12:10.080] It just happens to be at some point that you kind of pull it all together and you see, oh, wow, there actually is this kind of synergetic effect here.
[00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:14.720] So, Arvi, we're kind of recording this a year after we recorded the previous one.
[00:12:14.720 --> 00:12:16.480] It comes at the start of the year.
[00:12:16.480 --> 00:12:22.960] So, I wondered if we could just put you on the spot quickly, talk about some of the wins this year.
[00:12:23.120 --> 00:12:26.800] Biggest win in 2024 was being able to start a business and get funding.
[00:12:27.040 --> 00:12:28.720] I think that has been crazy.
[00:12:28.720 --> 00:12:29.680] I never thought I would.
[00:12:29.880 --> 00:12:41.800] But also, I think, and this is more like almost a metaphysical thing, allowing myself to take time away from all the stuff, all the professional work that I do, and spend it with my family, spend it with my dog.
[00:12:41.800 --> 00:12:44.600] Because prior to this, it would have been work, work, work, work, work, work, work.
[00:12:44.600 --> 00:12:47.800] But now it's, well, where's that balance and where is it leading me?
[00:12:47.800 --> 00:12:48.360] Right.
[00:12:48.360 --> 00:12:55.240] And I find now that I'm 40, I want to be more conscious of what I spent my time on and what the ROI of this is.
[00:12:55.240 --> 00:13:00.280] Yeah, I'd almost flip what you're saying on its head rather than like ROI on the things you do more.
[00:13:00.280 --> 00:13:07.560] Do things that don't have any monetary ROI, things that you can just enjoy and not feel guilty about doing.
[00:13:07.560 --> 00:13:08.920] I do so much of this.
[00:13:08.920 --> 00:13:30.120] Like in my year in review, I essentially talked about this is a year where I focused on me and my work, took a backseat and I coasted, spent a lot of time and money on cycling, got a girlfriend, spent a lot of time with her in the US and going on holidays and just enjoying our time together rather than I've got to work, work, work and hustle, which I do enjoy.
[00:13:30.120 --> 00:13:32.360] And I feel like that's part of my life that's kind of missing.
[00:13:32.360 --> 00:13:35.960] But I've learned to not feel guilty about that time.
[00:13:36.280 --> 00:13:48.120] And finally, I guess if we can leave people with some advice, with some inspiration, if they're at a stage where they want to take the next step with their business, they want to leave their job.
[00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:49.080] What opportunities?
[00:13:49.080 --> 00:13:56.360] How can we inspire some people to keep working hard on their projects, launch things, enjoy themselves?
[00:13:56.520 --> 00:14:00.280] I can maybe get back to the story of Podline.
[00:14:00.280 --> 00:14:08.680] I started Podline because I thought I wanted to have more people call into my podcast and leave a message that I can play on my podcast and respond.
[00:14:08.680 --> 00:14:12.520] But when I started Podline, when I was building it, I was like, oh, this is going to be the biggest thing.
[00:14:12.520 --> 00:14:14.360] It's going to be my next big business.
[00:14:14.360 --> 00:14:16.400] And then I was like, hmm, how am I going to market this?
[00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:18.960] And from them, from that point came PodScan.
[00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:25.280] And now when I look at PodScan now, or Podline Now, a year after, it's like, it's a blip.
[00:14:25.280 --> 00:14:34.640] You never know where you're going to be three months from now, but you should know that if you want to be somewhere three months from now, you should keep working on the thing that you're working on right now.
[00:14:34.640 --> 00:14:36.720] You should put all your efforts into it.
[00:14:37.040 --> 00:14:41.920] What I'm trying to say is, in retrospect, I know that I was thinking, oh, this is going to be the greatest thing, but it wasn't.
[00:14:41.920 --> 00:14:43.920] But I was supposed to think that.
[00:14:43.920 --> 00:14:45.200] I had to think that.
[00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:57.520] I had to love the thing and build it and build it with as much energy as I could exactly at that moment because only that moved me to the next step that I needed to go to then get to the next project.
[00:14:57.520 --> 00:14:59.200] Don't shortcut yourself.
[00:14:59.200 --> 00:15:00.160] Give it 100%.
[00:15:00.160 --> 00:15:07.920] Every single thing you're building should be the thing that is the most amazing and best thing you ever built because that is the stepping stone to the next even better thing.
[00:15:08.560 --> 00:15:10.480] Now, you know how this show ends.
[00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:12.160] I end on three recommendations.
[00:15:12.160 --> 00:15:14.560] A book, a podcast, and an indie hacker.
[00:15:14.560 --> 00:15:19.680] The last two episodes, the books you've done are The Mum Test and The Sass Playbook.
[00:15:19.680 --> 00:15:22.880] Podcast, The Indie Hackers Pod, and then The Greatest Generation.
[00:15:22.880 --> 00:15:26.240] And then Indie Hackers, Sergio Matei and Tony Din.
[00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:27.360] Okay, let me start with the book.
[00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:30.240] I was just going to recommend The Court of Thorns and Roses.
[00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:36.560] This book this series has been spectacular because it has nothing to do with indie hacking, with software entrepreneurship.
[00:15:36.560 --> 00:15:41.760] And there are great books out there, but reading fiction is just so enjoyable.
[00:15:41.760 --> 00:16:01.800] It's just such a nice way to pull you out of this very cerebral, very thinky business technology world and move you into a much more emotionally charged, let's just call it that, fantasy world where other things are important and you see that other people's problems, even if they're fictitious, they're also problems, they're also real.
[00:16:01.800 --> 00:16:03.640] It just gives you a different perspective.
[00:16:03.640 --> 00:16:05.640] And I say this as a non-fiction author.
[00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:07.320] Okay, podcast you've been listening to.
[00:16:07.640 --> 00:16:11.080] I've been enjoying a podcast called The Economics of Everyday Things.
[00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:12.680] Indie Hacker, what have you got?
[00:16:12.680 --> 00:16:18.280] I'm gonna go with Tyler Tringus, and not because he sponsored or funded my business.
[00:16:18.280 --> 00:16:19.800] That's not what it is.
[00:16:19.800 --> 00:16:22.840] But Tyler very recently has started building businesses again.
[00:16:22.840 --> 00:16:24.440] And I think that's super exciting.
[00:16:24.440 --> 00:16:28.760] Arvid, thank you again for being an incredible guest, a great friend.
[00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:30.600] And I guess we'll do this same time next year.
[00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:31.640] Yeah, same time next year.
[00:16:31.640 --> 00:16:32.520] See you around.
[00:16:33.160 --> 00:16:38.200] Thank you for listening to this episode of Indie Bytes and a big thank you to my sponsor, Email Oxford, for making the show happen.
[00:16:38.200 --> 00:16:39.080] That's all from me.
[00:16:39.080 --> 00:16:40.840] See you in the next episode.