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[00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:04.080] Also, due to my hand problems, I'm no longer holding my mic.
[00:00:04.080 --> 00:00:09.680] I have a mic stand now, and so I can do, I can do the clap emojis.
[00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:12.960] Like, give the men estrogen.
[00:00:23.920 --> 00:00:26.720] Okay, I have one, but it's it might be too scientific.
[00:00:26.720 --> 00:00:28.080] Oh, interesting.
[00:00:28.080 --> 00:00:33.440] As an expert in this field, as an expert in this field, I can't wait to hear what comes next.
[00:00:33.440 --> 00:00:34.960] To educate the public.
[00:00:35.920 --> 00:00:36.880] Welcome.
[00:00:36.880 --> 00:00:44.080] Welcome to Maintenance Phase, the podcast that says yestrogen to all forms of estrogen.
[00:00:44.080 --> 00:00:45.600] People thought I wasn't an expert.
[00:00:45.600 --> 00:00:48.080] People thought I didn't know, but I do know.
[00:00:48.080 --> 00:00:51.680] Big I am Canuff energy.
[00:00:52.640 --> 00:00:56.480] If this one was about testosterone, it would have been, say, yestosterone.
[00:00:56.480 --> 00:00:59.920] It wouldn't have been testosterone in the San Francisco treat.
[00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:02.480] I'm Michael Hopps.
[00:01:02.480 --> 00:01:04.000] I am Aubrey Gordon.
[00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:08.720] If you would like to support the show, you can do that at patreon.com slash maintenance phase.
[00:01:08.720 --> 00:01:11.280] You can also subscribe through Apple Podcast Premium.
[00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:13.440] It's the same audio content.
[00:01:13.440 --> 00:01:14.160] Michael.
[00:01:14.160 --> 00:01:15.200] Aubrey, I'm so excited.
[00:01:15.200 --> 00:01:18.000] I'm not even letting you get to the today we're doing part.
[00:01:18.400 --> 00:01:19.040] You're so excited.
[00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:20.640] Tell me what you're excited about.
[00:01:20.640 --> 00:01:26.640] Because I, okay, I am like such a beta cook person that like I already feel seen.
[00:01:26.960 --> 00:01:30.720] This one is about the soy boy thing, right?
[00:01:30.720 --> 00:01:31.280] Uh-huh.
[00:01:31.520 --> 00:01:35.120] Men are growing boobs because they're eating tofu or something.
[00:01:35.120 --> 00:01:35.760] Yes.
[00:01:35.760 --> 00:01:47.600] Today we're going to be talking about sort of the right-wing insult soy boy, which has sort of morphed into almost a plank in the Republican platforms.
[00:01:47.600 --> 00:01:48.560] Yeah, it's really bleak.
[00:01:48.560 --> 00:01:53.600] And we're also going to figure out what the underlying science is from all of that.
[00:01:53.600 --> 00:01:55.280] What does the research say about fapping?
[00:01:55.280 --> 00:01:58.080] What does the fapp or Cochrane review say?
[00:01:58.080 --> 00:02:02.840] So, just to start us off, for folks who are unfamiliar, first of all, congratulations.
[00:02:03.160 --> 00:02:11.400] Soy boy is an insult or sort of pejorative that's very popular in far-right spaces, especially online spaces.
[00:02:11.400 --> 00:02:19.880] It goes in the same sort of category as calling men like cucks or low-tee or beta males or new males.
[00:02:19.880 --> 00:02:22.600] I have been called all of those things and I agree.
[00:02:22.600 --> 00:02:23.480] Yeah, that's right.
[00:02:23.480 --> 00:02:25.720] You're part of the extended cuckiverse.
[00:02:25.720 --> 00:02:37.240] Oh, so I thought we would watch a little video clip of someone who I thought would be a real expert in this explaining what a soy boy is.
[00:02:37.240 --> 00:02:38.360] Oh, no.
[00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:42.520] Soy is like a political fruit or a vegetable.
[00:02:42.680 --> 00:02:43.080] Is it?
[00:02:43.080 --> 00:02:43.960] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:02:43.960 --> 00:02:45.640] People call you a soy boy.
[00:02:45.640 --> 00:02:49.880] If you're a Republican, people call weak men soy boys.
[00:02:49.880 --> 00:02:50.760] I never knew that.
[00:02:50.760 --> 00:02:54.360] Soy is one of the rare foods that's actually attached to being a bitch.
[00:02:54.360 --> 00:02:55.640] That's a pussy food?
[00:02:55.640 --> 00:02:57.640] And this is not my perspective.
[00:02:57.640 --> 00:03:00.600] This is just, I just think it's a fucking plant.
[00:03:00.600 --> 00:03:01.640] It doesn't matter to me.
[00:03:01.640 --> 00:03:01.960] Right.
[00:03:01.960 --> 00:03:04.920] I think soy lowers your testosterone.
[00:03:05.000 --> 00:03:06.120] I think there's like estrogen.
[00:03:06.440 --> 00:03:06.680] Yeah.
[00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:07.240] Yeah.
[00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:14.360] Soy isoflavones can produce estrogen-like activity in the body, mimicking the effects of natural estrogen.
[00:03:14.360 --> 00:03:14.760] Yeah.
[00:03:14.760 --> 00:03:17.320] But I think you can grow titties off of soy?
[00:03:17.320 --> 00:03:19.320] Not quite, but it might feminize you.
[00:03:19.320 --> 00:03:20.520] It might feminize you.
[00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:20.920] Fuck soy.
[00:03:21.640 --> 00:03:24.440] Plants affect your hormone production.
[00:03:25.080 --> 00:03:30.600] This is how I want to learn my scientific information from one comedian telling another comedian.
[00:03:30.600 --> 00:03:32.120] Michael, tell me your thoughts and feelings.
[00:03:32.120 --> 00:03:35.960] Does this comport with what you would expect of Joe Rogan?
[00:03:35.960 --> 00:03:39.560] And does this comport with what you have heard about soy?
[00:03:39.560 --> 00:03:41.800] Sorry, can you give me a second of just fitting my sports bra?
[00:03:41.800 --> 00:03:43.480] Because I had some cookie this morning.
[00:03:43.800 --> 00:03:46.160] Very logistically difficult for me.
[00:03:44.920 --> 00:03:50.160] This is like the fucking perfect Joe Rogan thing where he's like, I don't know, man.
[00:03:50.240 --> 00:03:53.600] Like, some people think it's like pussifying, but like, I don't know, man.
[00:03:53.600 --> 00:03:54.720] Anyway, why don't we Google that?
[00:03:54.720 --> 00:03:55.920] Oh, yeah, it turns out it is.
[00:03:55.920 --> 00:04:00.000] Yeah, here's some here's some crank screenshot from some crank website.
[00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:03.840] I mean, he brings it back to the I don't believe it at the end of this segment.
[00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:04.320] Okay.
[00:04:04.320 --> 00:04:09.280] And Donnell Rawlings, I will say, hilariously chimes in with, I thought it was about being a foodie.
[00:04:09.280 --> 00:04:17.840] I do think there's probably something to that, though, in that it's kind of coded as like liberal, ethete, ivory tower, like lib bullshit, right?
[00:04:17.840 --> 00:04:19.040] I mean, this is kind of the whole thing.
[00:04:19.040 --> 00:04:21.520] It's like a, it's a culture war thing.
[00:04:21.520 --> 00:04:31.760] More than, I mean, obviously more than it's any kind of scientific stuff, but it's basically like people I don't like are like really into tofu and therefore tofu must be like uniquely pernicious in some way.
[00:04:31.760 --> 00:04:32.240] Totally.
[00:04:32.240 --> 00:04:38.240] So the people I don't like part is sort of the caricature of a soy boy, right?
[00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:38.560] Right.
[00:04:38.560 --> 00:04:41.680] They're usually depicted as being sort of unathletic.
[00:04:41.680 --> 00:04:43.840] They don't really have muscle tone.
[00:04:43.840 --> 00:04:51.760] They are generally seen to have feminine traits, small hands, small features, breast tissue as part of it, right?
[00:04:51.760 --> 00:04:56.640] They're usually shown wearing glasses and with an untrimmed beard.
[00:04:56.640 --> 00:04:56.960] Okay.
[00:04:56.960 --> 00:04:58.960] It's like a little scraggly, right?
[00:04:58.960 --> 00:05:00.560] Okay, there's like a whole aesthetic.
[00:05:00.560 --> 00:05:07.920] And there is a face that's called soy face or this, I prefer this name, Soylent Grin.
[00:05:07.920 --> 00:05:09.280] Oh, that's pretty good.
[00:05:09.280 --> 00:05:11.840] Wait, let me Google Soylent.
[00:05:12.160 --> 00:05:16.200] Oh, because that's sort of like the Aziz Ansari face in Parks and Rec.
[00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:19.840] Yeah, big, open-mouthed, surprised smile.
[00:05:19.840 --> 00:05:26.800] I was just about to be like, I make that, but that's kind of proof of their point, I guess, if you're in this world.
[00:05:26.800 --> 00:05:29.600] This is quietly just an intervention for you.
[00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:30.280] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:05:30.440 --> 00:05:33.160] Joe Rogan's right over your shoulder.
[00:05:33.160 --> 00:05:34.600] Tell him the face thing.
[00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:37.080] Mike, there's life after being a gay person.
[00:05:37.240 --> 00:05:39.160] You don't have to live this hard.
[00:05:40.120 --> 00:05:43.640] I also, I will say, I have huge hands.
[00:05:43.640 --> 00:05:54.040] I don't know that was like a masculine feminine thing, but like for a beta cup, like a five foot six, effeminate, prancing little man, I have giant hands.
[00:05:54.040 --> 00:05:55.960] Maybe you're not a soy boy.
[00:05:55.960 --> 00:05:58.680] The whole point of this episode for me is to prove my masculinity.
[00:05:58.680 --> 00:06:06.120] So in addition to all of those sort of physical features, the sort of soy boy stereotype also includes them being vegetarian or vegan.
[00:06:06.120 --> 00:06:06.520] Yeah.
[00:06:06.520 --> 00:06:14.280] They're also considered to be SJWs, but not like the sort of like boundless rage of lady SJWs.
[00:06:14.280 --> 00:06:18.120] The idea here is that they're sort of the cowed male equivalent.
[00:06:18.120 --> 00:06:21.560] And they're sort of betraying their sex, too, right?
[00:06:21.560 --> 00:06:25.720] It's like, well, as a man, you're sort of supposed to be like loyal to other men, right?
[00:06:25.720 --> 00:06:28.440] You're not supposed to be like talking about like, oh, the gender wage gap and stuff.
[00:06:28.440 --> 00:06:29.320] Like, come on, man.
[00:06:29.320 --> 00:06:29.560] Yeah.
[00:06:29.560 --> 00:06:33.480] And I also think this is a term that is deeply, deeply racialized.
[00:06:33.480 --> 00:06:33.800] Yeah, yeah.
[00:06:34.040 --> 00:06:38.440] So there's also a little tinge of sort of like race traitor that's happening in there, right?
[00:06:38.440 --> 00:06:38.840] Yeah.
[00:06:38.840 --> 00:06:45.240] So in order to talk about this sort of set of myths and this kind of right-wing panic, we got to talk about soy a little bit.
[00:06:45.800 --> 00:06:51.800] Soy itself has been cultivated in East Asia for thousands of years.
[00:06:52.040 --> 00:06:53.960] It has a ton of advantages.
[00:06:53.960 --> 00:06:55.880] As a crop, it's hardy.
[00:06:55.880 --> 00:06:58.680] It can grow in pretty low-quality soil.
[00:06:58.680 --> 00:07:07.320] And it also, like any sort of beans and peas that you might grow, as gardeners know, it will actually enrich the soil for the next crop that you plant.
[00:07:07.320 --> 00:07:08.440] It sounds like a pretty hardy crop.
[00:07:08.440 --> 00:07:09.960] It sounds pretty manly, honestly.
[00:07:09.960 --> 00:07:11.800] It sounds fairly alpha.
[00:07:11.800 --> 00:07:24.160] So the 70s is when we start to see much more of a takeoff of like tofu in particular and soy as like the main event, which is also around the same time that the U.S.
[00:07:24.160 --> 00:07:30.640] starts to experience a real boom in natural foods and health food stores, right?
[00:07:30.640 --> 00:07:36.400] So there's more of an idea that some foods are really good, some foods are really bad.
[00:07:36.400 --> 00:07:43.840] And at this point, we start getting layers of moralizing about it and sort of what those foods say about who you are.
[00:07:44.160 --> 00:07:51.120] This is also around the time that people start really wrapping up our understanding of tofu in our understanding of vegetarians.
[00:07:51.520 --> 00:07:56.480] We start getting more of a market for vegetarians and more of a market for vegetarian foods.
[00:07:56.480 --> 00:08:09.760] Things like tofu dogs start popping up in grocery stores, and folks become sort of more aware if they are not vegetarian, that there is sort of a growing sense that there are more and more vegetarians around them.
[00:08:09.760 --> 00:08:10.000] Right.
[00:08:10.480 --> 00:08:22.000] This is, we talked about this in our vegetarianism episode, but also, I don't know if this is when it happened, but we also get the social construction of vegetarians and vegans as sort of like holier than thou.
[00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:30.160] I mean, I have not met a vegan like this, but this idea of like they're constantly scolding you and they think they're better than you and all this stuff.
[00:08:30.160 --> 00:08:32.160] Like I remember this stuff from the 90s.
[00:08:32.160 --> 00:08:34.480] Can I tell you my theory about where that comes from?
[00:08:35.040 --> 00:08:36.080] I think it is.
[00:08:36.080 --> 00:08:51.040] So listen, we talked about this a little bit in our food pyramid episode, that there was sort of this push by doctors to define vegetarianism as sort of the heart-healthiest diet and the thing you ought to pursue, and like cut out animal products.
[00:08:51.040 --> 00:09:02.200] But I think that folks were feeling really judged by that and externalized that response to feeling judged as like they're always preaching to you.
[00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:06.280] People used to mention tofu the way that they would mention like John Tesh.
[00:09:06.600 --> 00:09:10.840] Tesh is like the most obviously just like loser shit.
[00:09:10.840 --> 00:09:12.840] Like, that guy eats tofu.
[00:09:13.080 --> 00:09:14.120] That is a true thing.
[00:09:14.120 --> 00:09:22.120] I think whatever a particular culture or group of people selects as their example of a gross out food is like incredibly telling.
[00:09:22.120 --> 00:09:22.600] Yeah, super.
[00:09:22.600 --> 00:09:22.920] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:09:23.160 --> 00:09:43.000] What I learned in the research of this sort of cultural anxiety about men and men's health is that this is actually a pretty long historical pattern of making fun of vegetarians more when white masculinity feels like it is sort of tenuous or outdated or under threat.
[00:09:43.720 --> 00:09:49.240] So dating back to the 1800s, people in the U.S.
[00:09:49.240 --> 00:09:59.400] and the UK started sort of depicting vegetarians, especially men who are vegetarians, as a kind of threat to like hegemonic masculinity, right?
[00:09:59.400 --> 00:10:06.440] That there's this implicit threat of a man deciding to do something other than what quote-unquote manly men are supposed to do.
[00:10:06.440 --> 00:10:09.240] This man is 5'6 and he hosts a podcast.
[00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:20.040] Partly this sort of response is because of the cultural association between masculinity and like hunting or domination or any of that kind of stuff.
[00:10:20.040 --> 00:10:32.600] But a lot of it has to do with sort of diets being lighter in animal products had long been associated with black, indigenous, and people of color, but particularly Asian people, right?
[00:10:32.920 --> 00:10:39.880] And existing stereotypes had depicted Asian cis men as effeminate and sort of insufficiently masculine, right?
[00:10:39.880 --> 00:10:41.800] Like that's a thing that continues to this day.
[00:10:41.800 --> 00:10:42.200] Yeah.
[00:10:42.520 --> 00:10:45.840] And those stereotypes, I did not fucking know this.
[00:10:46.160 --> 00:10:52.240] Those stereotypes were used to justify colonialism and colonialist projects throughout Asia.
[00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:52.640] Oh.
[00:10:52.640 --> 00:11:10.720] In 1884, there's an American neurologist who writes about Asian communities and sort of like the diets in East Asia and writes, quote, thus flesh-eating nations have ever been more aggressive than those peoples whose diet is largely or exclusively vegetable.
[00:11:10.720 --> 00:11:11.120] What?
[00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:25.520] The effeminate rice eaters in India and China have again and again yielded to the superior moral courage of an infinitely smaller number of meat-eating Englishmen.
[00:11:25.520 --> 00:11:32.080] Dude, how the fuck is a British person gonna be like, we're good at colonialism because our food is better?
[00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:36.960] I don't know how much you know about British food at this time.
[00:11:37.280 --> 00:11:39.600] Don't think that's the reason.
[00:11:39.920 --> 00:11:42.880] They haven't stolen Indian food yet.
[00:11:45.040 --> 00:11:47.600] We have like one and a half spices at this point.
[00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:57.760] So while all of these sorts of foods are getting attached to that idea of like the sort of like lefty vegan scold, right?
[00:11:58.080 --> 00:12:03.600] Foods like tofu become aligned with this kind of like classed liberalism, right?
[00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:03.920] Yeah.
[00:12:03.920 --> 00:12:09.360] That it's about both left-leaning politics, but also a certain amount of disposable income.
[00:12:09.360 --> 00:12:16.280] And other foods like red meat, which is quite expensive, become tied to conservatism in the popular imagination.
[00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:16.520] Right.
[00:12:16.800 --> 00:12:25.440] So by the early 1990s, Rush Limbaugh is already sort of railing against quote-unquote latte-drinking liberals, right?
[00:12:25.760 --> 00:12:33.640] The latte stuff, they still trot that out sometimes, which is the funky shit because lattes are now so fucking normal.
[00:12:33.640 --> 00:12:34.040] Yeah.
[00:12:34.040 --> 00:12:34.600] Yeah.
[00:12:34.600 --> 00:12:36.920] That's like not even like a liberal elite thing.
[00:12:36.920 --> 00:12:39.240] That's like a suburban strip mall thing.
[00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:43.480] This is where we get into the like real sort of modern origins of this myth.
[00:12:43.480 --> 00:12:44.200] If you're ready.
[00:12:44.200 --> 00:12:46.040] Does it start with Alex Jones?
[00:12:46.040 --> 00:12:48.280] No, it starts with 2006.
[00:12:48.280 --> 00:12:54.360] We're going to start with Michael Pollen publishing The Omnivores Dilemma.
[00:12:54.360 --> 00:12:56.040] We're coming for you, Pollen.
[00:12:56.360 --> 00:12:56.840] No.
[00:12:56.840 --> 00:12:58.200] We left him alive last time.
[00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:00.200] Like Saddam Hussein in the 90s.
[00:13:00.200 --> 00:13:01.240] We're coming back.
[00:13:01.880 --> 00:13:03.400] Jesus Christ.
[00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:08.040] So in 2006, Pollen publishes The Omnivores Dilemma.
[00:13:08.040 --> 00:13:11.960] And Rush Limbaugh really latches on.
[00:13:12.280 --> 00:13:14.440] Limbaugh was a pollen guy?
[00:13:14.440 --> 00:13:16.200] No, he was not a pollen guy.
[00:13:16.200 --> 00:13:17.640] He was like, get off my case.
[00:13:17.640 --> 00:13:18.760] I eat what I want.
[00:13:19.640 --> 00:13:21.160] So he was anti-pollen, okay?
[00:13:21.160 --> 00:13:23.320] He was totally anti-pollen.
[00:13:23.320 --> 00:13:23.880] Okay.
[00:13:23.880 --> 00:13:29.400] And this starts to sort of bubble up a little bit in conservative spaces.
[00:13:29.400 --> 00:13:40.840] So later that same year, the right-wing website WorldNet Daily ran a six-part feature on the hazards of quote-unquote health foods.
[00:13:40.840 --> 00:13:42.120] Oh, nice.
[00:13:42.920 --> 00:13:43.720] Nice.
[00:13:44.360 --> 00:13:45.480] What were the hazards?
[00:13:45.480 --> 00:14:00.280] The hazards were that soy and like flax and then a bunch of other health foods were the cause of homosexuality, early puberty, late puberty, and infrared.
[00:14:01.880 --> 00:14:04.920] That's false, though, because the cause of homosexuality is having small hands.
[00:14:04.920 --> 00:14:11.800] So, within a few years, those claims start to broaden, and they start to focus in on just soy, right?
[00:14:11.800 --> 00:14:16.880] Soy alone is now responsible for a quote-unquote feminization of cis men.
[00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:23.680] And that quote-unquote feminization was reported with this sort of air of medical authority, right?
[00:14:23.680 --> 00:14:25.280] That's like it's definitely happening.
[00:14:25.280 --> 00:14:28.320] We should all be freaked out, and the science is clear.
[00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:33.440] A lot of that traces back to one particular story.
[00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:38.640] Okay, that story is published in 2009 in Men's Health.
[00:14:38.640 --> 00:14:44.240] Oh, so I just sent you the screen grab of this, of the head and deck for this story.
[00:14:44.560 --> 00:14:47.120] Fuck yes, this is a question mark headline.
[00:14:47.120 --> 00:14:49.360] We love a question mark headline.
[00:14:49.680 --> 00:14:55.840] So it's like men's health, and then in you know, they have these like tags with like categories, right?
[00:14:55.840 --> 00:14:57.920] It'll be like movies or books or whatever.
[00:14:57.920 --> 00:15:02.320] The category of this story is soy's negative effects.
[00:15:02.560 --> 00:15:05.040] That's like the vertical.
[00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:11.200] And then the headline is: Is this the most dangerous food for men?
[00:15:11.520 --> 00:15:21.200] And then, sub-headline: the unassuming soybean has silently infiltrated the American diet as what might just be the perfect protein source.
[00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:25.520] It's cheap and vegetarian and could even unclog our hearts.
[00:15:25.520 --> 00:15:32.800] But there may be a hidden dark side to soy, one that has the power to undermine everything it means to be male.
[00:15:35.600 --> 00:15:42.880] So, here's my question: Based on your years of experience hosting the show with me, what do you expect this article to contain?
[00:15:42.880 --> 00:15:49.440] Maybe this is just because I've been reading too much anti-vax nonsense lately, but I'm expecting like an opening anecdote.
[00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:57.200] John always felt like a man, but then he ate a patty of tofu and now he has boobs or something, some like super anecdotal, unconfirmed report.
[00:15:57.200 --> 00:16:03.160] And then we're going to interview some like allegedly iconoclastic doctor.
[00:16:03.160 --> 00:16:07.400] Like the scientific consensus is that soybeans are fine, but like Dr.
[00:16:07.400 --> 00:16:11.640] So-and-so says that he sees patients with boobs or whatever.
[00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:14.760] God, it's like, you don't even need me here.
[00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:17.640] Yeah, I'll take the episode from here, Audrey.
[00:16:20.440 --> 00:16:25.720] Sorry, I have like, it's hilarious because that is like beat for fucking beat.
[00:16:26.040 --> 00:16:27.000] Fuck yes.
[00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:30.360] And I will say it doesn't, it's not that it starts with an anecdote.
[00:16:30.360 --> 00:16:31.720] It starts with an anecdote.
[00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:33.080] It middles with an anecdote.
[00:16:33.080 --> 00:16:34.840] It ends with an anecdote.
[00:16:34.840 --> 00:16:37.160] This is one person's story.
[00:16:37.160 --> 00:16:37.560] Oh.
[00:16:37.560 --> 00:16:43.800] The article focused on a guy named James Price, who was a retired U.S.
[00:16:43.800 --> 00:16:51.880] Army intelligence officer who was diagnosed with gynecomastia, which is enlarged mammary glands in men.
[00:16:52.200 --> 00:16:58.440] He says that he went in to seek treatment after feeling really emotionally dysregulated for a long time.
[00:16:58.440 --> 00:17:04.120] And he was like, it was above and beyond this thing, but it was around the time my wife died.
[00:17:04.120 --> 00:17:09.400] And I was like, buddy, you're going to feel emotionally dysregulated after your partner dies.
[00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:12.600] But he was, again, he was like, no, it was more than that.
[00:17:12.600 --> 00:17:17.320] But I was like, oh, this feels like a very funny joke about like a dude has a feeling and is like, I got to see a doctor.
[00:17:17.320 --> 00:17:17.800] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:19.400] And it must be the soybeans.
[00:17:19.400 --> 00:17:20.680] Yeah, totally.
[00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:26.760] So he went to the doctor and they ran a bunch of tests and spent a bunch of time investigating.
[00:17:26.760 --> 00:17:31.080] And they found that this one guy had elevated estrogen levels.
[00:17:31.080 --> 00:17:39.000] According to men's health, he had roughly eight times that would be expected for other cis men.
[00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:39.400] Okay.
[00:17:39.400 --> 00:17:48.400] As the story unfolds, we find out that this guy, James Price, found out that he was lactose intolerant some years earlier.
[00:17:44.680 --> 00:17:50.400] So he had switched to soy milk.
[00:17:44.840 --> 00:17:50.640] Okay.
[00:17:50.960 --> 00:18:01.680] And when the doctor asked him how much soy milk he drank, he said it was like one of his favorite drinks, and that he estimated that he drank about three quarts of soy milk a day.
[00:18:01.680 --> 00:18:05.200] He has like a big gulp cup full of soy milk next to him at all.
[00:18:05.520 --> 00:18:09.040] That's a couple of big gulps full of soy milk, right?
[00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:13.200] So this is like entirely anecdotal, right?
[00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:16.080] We're just talking about this one guy.
[00:18:16.080 --> 00:18:25.600] And then the piece drops into these sweeping alarmist claims about Americans consuming too much soy.
[00:18:25.600 --> 00:18:33.440] Right, because you can probably do a correlation with like, over the last 10 years, soy consumption in America has quintoupled or something, because it probably did by 2009.
[00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:35.600] Yes, I mean, that's essentially what they did.
[00:18:35.600 --> 00:18:45.040] So here's what they have to say: they talk about the AAP recommending cow's milk formula over soy formula in a report in 2008, which is true.
[00:18:45.040 --> 00:18:45.920] They did.
[00:18:46.240 --> 00:18:50.320] They note that 35% of bottle-fed babies in the U.S.
[00:18:50.320 --> 00:18:54.880] at the time received at least some of their protein from soy.
[00:18:54.880 --> 00:18:55.280] Okay.
[00:18:55.280 --> 00:18:58.320] They go on, this is more maintenance phase catnip.
[00:18:58.320 --> 00:19:01.280] This is a quote from the actual piece.
[00:19:01.280 --> 00:19:14.000] Okay, it says: a 2001 study in the Journal of the American Medical Association surveyed over 800 adults ages 20 to 34 who were fed either soy-based or cow's milk formulas during their infancy.
[00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:22.720] One of the few differences to emerge, was that the group raised on soy formula regularly used more asthma and allergy medications in adulthood.
[00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:24.960] Was this just a quirk of the sampling?
[00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:29.200] Or could it represent a subtle impairment of immune function?
[00:19:29.520 --> 00:19:29.760] What?
[00:19:30.200 --> 00:19:30.520] Right.
[00:19:30.520 --> 00:19:34.680] This is false because we know that the immune function is related to the mercury that they're getting in the vaccines.
[00:19:34.680 --> 00:19:35.000] Uh-huh.
[00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:35.320] Correct.
[00:19:35.560 --> 00:19:36.040] It's the music.
[00:19:36.280 --> 00:19:51.000] And also, like, serving an existing group of people who have allergies and are eating foods that are more common in allergy-friendly spaces feels like, yeah, no shit.
[00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:57.240] If you take allergy meds, you might be more tuned in to your own personal sort of like health and well-being.
[00:19:57.240 --> 00:20:00.360] You might be more likely to gravitate toward like health foods.
[00:20:00.360 --> 00:20:01.240] You might, you know what I mean?
[00:20:01.240 --> 00:20:03.800] Like, there's so much going on here.
[00:20:03.800 --> 00:20:09.640] And instead, they do this dumb shit, like, heavy lifting question.
[00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:19.160] This is very similar to the moving of the goalpost thing among anti-vaxxers where it's like, it's this vaccine, it's this other vaccine, it's autism, no, it's everything, no, it's allergies.
[00:20:19.160 --> 00:20:30.760] Where it's like, okay, if people are consuming more estrogen and it's causing this guy's very specific condition, that's one thing, but then we have a completely different narrative here where it's like asthma and allergies.
[00:20:30.760 --> 00:20:31.000] Right.
[00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:35.160] But those are all like different biological mechanisms by which it would be affecting you.
[00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:40.920] I feel like there's this idea that foods are just like good for you or bad for you.
[00:20:40.920 --> 00:20:45.000] And like anything bad that happens, people are like, oh, it's his food.
[00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:45.160] Right.
[00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:58.280] So like it does it again with there is a piece where they sort of like cite a couple of papers suggesting that one component of soy is linked to erectile dysfunction in animals.
[00:20:58.280 --> 00:21:02.120] And then they do a whole thing being like, what if it's true in people too?
[00:21:03.080 --> 00:21:04.360] Chill the fuck out.
[00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:07.640] This is an article that's not ready to be written yet.
[00:21:07.640 --> 00:21:07.880] Right.
[00:21:07.880 --> 00:21:11.800] There's just not enough evidence here to say anything for sure.
[00:21:12.120 --> 00:21:16.080] But instead, they turn in this, like, I'm just asking questions kind of draft.
[00:21:14.920 --> 00:21:20.720] We're all eating soybeans, and now the mice can't even get boners anymore.
[00:21:21.040 --> 00:21:22.800] Nobody wants to talk about it.
[00:21:23.040 --> 00:21:30.400] No, but this is, I feel like there's like a fundamental kind of mismatch here in that I think that it is good to do studies on like random shit.
[00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:42.160] Like, I don't really mind these kinds of studies being done, but I think that one of the fundamental challenges of like the information age is that because everybody has access to so much information, like it's very easy to look up academic journals.
[00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:48.480] You can easily take these super preliminary studies and be like, we're all growing boobs because of the soybeans.
[00:21:48.800 --> 00:21:54.320] But like, I don't want to like throw the scientific baby out with the bathwater here.
[00:21:54.320 --> 00:21:56.560] I think doing like animal studies is fine.
[00:21:56.560 --> 00:22:05.360] It's just that they get interpreted and like spread around like our bad information environment in this like really obnoxious way.
[00:22:05.360 --> 00:22:06.880] Yeah, totally.
[00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:13.280] So it is true that soy contains something called phytoestrogens.
[00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:21.280] Phytoestrogens exist in plants, but they have some chemical similarities to the estrogen that is produced by humans.
[00:22:21.280 --> 00:22:25.840] They're similar to estrogen, but they are not human estrogen.
[00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:36.880] And also, even when we are talking about like straight up human estrogen, despite you know, we sort of characterize estrogen as like a women's hormone or something, right?
[00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:40.640] But people of all sexes and genders produce estrogen.
[00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:40.880] Right.
[00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:43.360] So like you produce estrogen, I produce estrogens.
[00:22:43.360 --> 00:22:45.040] I also produce testosterone.
[00:22:45.040 --> 00:22:46.800] We just have them in different balances.
[00:22:46.800 --> 00:22:47.040] Right.
[00:22:47.040 --> 00:22:54.800] Phytoestrogens are named phytoestrogens because they are chemically similar, but decidedly sort of not identical.
[00:22:54.800 --> 00:22:56.480] Phyto just means plant.
[00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:01.480] And when humans eat phytoestrogens, they are metabolized differently.
[00:22:59.920 --> 00:23:03.240] They are put to work differently.
[00:23:03.560 --> 00:23:06.280] Like it all sort of works differently, right?
[00:23:06.280 --> 00:23:09.880] When you eat phytoestrogens versus when your body produces estrogen.
[00:23:09.880 --> 00:23:15.160] It really feels like these people are just like going through Wikipedia and looking for any excuse.
[00:23:15.160 --> 00:23:17.000] And they're like, ooh, phytoestrogen.
[00:23:17.240 --> 00:23:18.920] It has the word estrogen in it.
[00:23:18.920 --> 00:23:19.080] Right.
[00:23:19.080 --> 00:23:23.160] It's like, do you have any actual knowledge of this substance or how it works?
[00:23:23.160 --> 00:23:24.200] It's like, da-da-da-da.
[00:23:24.440 --> 00:23:25.800] It has estrogen in it.
[00:23:25.800 --> 00:23:29.640] So that men's health piece comes out in 2009.
[00:23:29.640 --> 00:23:50.440] In 2010, we get two big research reviews, two big meta-analyses that show no compelling evidence that a soy-rich diet impacts testosterone levels, sperm counts, or anything else to do with cis men's health, right?
[00:23:50.440 --> 00:23:52.520] Maybe you're just a pussy because you're a pussy, Todd.
[00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:53.640] Not because this pussy is.
[00:23:54.600 --> 00:24:01.400] This is very similar to the Mercury and vaccine stuff, where it's just like, yeah, if this was true, we would fucking know it.
[00:24:01.400 --> 00:24:03.080] And it would be super obvious.
[00:24:03.400 --> 00:24:03.720] Yeah.
[00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:09.320] There's vast differences between populations and like how much soy they're eating.
[00:24:09.640 --> 00:24:12.200] Like it would be really fucking easy to measure.
[00:24:12.200 --> 00:24:16.840] So men's health sort of unwittingly plants sort of a seed.
[00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:23.560] And by 2015, we get what becomes, frankly, a real modern classic of the internet.
[00:24:23.560 --> 00:24:23.960] Oh.
[00:24:23.960 --> 00:24:24.840] I sent you a link.
[00:24:24.840 --> 00:24:25.320] I'm afraid.
[00:24:25.560 --> 00:24:27.160] This is what we will be watching.
[00:24:27.160 --> 00:24:28.120] Oh, this shit.
[00:24:28.520 --> 00:24:29.960] I've seen this, Aubrey.
[00:24:29.960 --> 00:24:31.400] I've seen this so many times.
[00:24:32.200 --> 00:24:33.400] See it again.
[00:24:33.640 --> 00:24:34.840] I love this shit.
[00:24:34.840 --> 00:24:35.320] Okay.
[00:24:35.640 --> 00:24:41.480] This is the title is Alex Jones Gay Bomb Rant.
[00:24:41.440 --> 00:24:42.120] All right, we're doing?
[00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:47.600] Let's not do 1.5 because I feel like we want, we want to really let it breathe experience.
[00:24:47.600 --> 00:24:48.320] You know?
[00:24:44.360 --> 00:24:50.560] Okay.
[00:24:50.800 --> 00:24:55.440] Yeah, this is when you become like a garbage clip somalier.
[00:24:56.720 --> 00:24:58.160] By the way, they didn't just test it.
[00:24:58.160 --> 00:24:59.840] They sprayed them with gay bombs.
[00:24:59.840 --> 00:25:03.680] If you're a new listener, just type in radio tested gay bomb on our business.
[00:25:03.760 --> 00:25:05.680] They considered, no, they didn't consider using it.
[00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:07.120] They've used it on our troops.
[00:25:07.120 --> 00:25:10.480] In Vietnam, they'd spray PCP on the troops, Jacob's Ladder.
[00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:11.200] Jacob's Ladder.
[00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:15.200] You think PCP, some horse tranquilizer, something?
[00:25:15.360 --> 00:25:18.800] They got stuff that'll whack your brain permanently.
[00:25:18.800 --> 00:25:25.120] They give the troops special vaccines that are really nanotech that already re-engineer their brains.
[00:25:25.120 --> 00:25:26.640] I mean, he cuts to Wikipedia.
[00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:28.640] Yeah, there it is, the gay bomb.
[00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:30.000] Look it up for yourself.
[00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:30.960] I mean, this is what they're.
[00:25:31.120 --> 00:25:32.560] What do you think tap water is?
[00:25:32.560 --> 00:25:34.080] It's a gay bomb, baby.
[00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:37.680] And I'm not saying people didn't naturally have homosexual feelings.
[00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:39.600] I'm not even getting into it, quite frankly.
[00:25:39.600 --> 00:25:40.480] I mean, give me a break.
[00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:41.120] Let's be responsible.
[00:25:41.360 --> 00:25:46.160] You think I am like shocked by it, so I'm up here bashing it because I don't like gay people.
[00:25:46.160 --> 00:25:50.720] I don't like them putting chemicals in the water that turn the friggin' frogs gay.
[00:25:51.040 --> 00:25:52.400] Do you understand that?
[00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:53.440] He's clarifying his views.
[00:25:55.520 --> 00:25:57.200] I'm sick of being social engineer.
[00:25:57.200 --> 00:25:58.320] It's not funny.
[00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:00.960] Okay.
[00:26:02.080 --> 00:26:03.600] I just dropped a bunch of stuff off the side of here.
[00:26:03.600 --> 00:26:04.160] I need those articles.
[00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:05.760] I can do that now because I have a mic.
[00:26:05.920 --> 00:26:07.120] I apologize to the family audience.
[00:26:07.120 --> 00:26:07.920] I'm going to settle down.
[00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:11.760] I haven't done this in months, and I'm just, I just cannot handle it anymore.
[00:26:11.760 --> 00:26:12.640] I apologize.
[00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:13.440] I apologize.
[00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:14.720] Jesus, forgive me.
[00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:17.520] Let me just get back to the news.
[00:26:17.520 --> 00:26:18.560] Thank you.
[00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:22.640] Children becoming hunchbacks due to addiction to smartphones.
[00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:23.840] Again.
[00:26:24.640 --> 00:26:25.600] Sounds real.
[00:26:25.600 --> 00:26:26.920] That's all he could stuff.
[00:26:28.720 --> 00:26:33.560] Michael, the amount of restraint it took me to not play the entire 11-minute video.
[00:26:29.920 --> 00:26:35.400] I know, I kind of want to keep going.
[00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:41.160] So, hang on, I have to collect myself.
[00:26:41.160 --> 00:26:43.640] I have watched this so many times.
[00:26:43.640 --> 00:26:49.000] I was about to make fun of him for like working himself up into a lather and being like, I can't do this anymore.
[00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:50.920] And then I remembered what we do for a living.
[00:26:50.920 --> 00:26:51.720] That's our whole thing.
[00:26:51.880 --> 00:26:53.000] That's the whole thing.
[00:26:53.320 --> 00:26:56.760] We live in a glass house of I'm not going to do this anymore.
[00:26:56.760 --> 00:27:01.320] Yeah, who can say that they're better than the gay bomb guy?
[00:27:01.640 --> 00:27:15.720] So, the lead-in to this and the lead-out of this little segment is him genuinely just like leafing through pages of stapled packets of printed-out internet news stories.
[00:27:15.720 --> 00:27:16.760] It's so fucking funny.
[00:27:16.760 --> 00:27:23.320] They're like all the papers on his desk, which makes it seem sort of like, oh, he's going through and like reading the studies and stuff.
[00:27:23.320 --> 00:27:27.800] They're like, This man has not read like a complete sentence in his entire life.
[00:27:27.960 --> 00:27:34.040] No, and also, like, an intern printed out 100% of these, and he's literally reading off headlines.
[00:27:34.040 --> 00:27:38.200] Also, wait, I need to go to the gay bomb wiki entry.
[00:27:38.200 --> 00:27:40.600] Michael, this was exactly the thing we were just gonna do.
[00:27:40.600 --> 00:27:41.560] Don't even go to the wiki.
[00:27:42.360 --> 00:27:43.160] Okay, okay.
[00:27:43.160 --> 00:27:44.680] Don't even go to the wiki entry.
[00:27:44.680 --> 00:27:47.800] I'm gonna tell you the timestamp.
[00:27:47.800 --> 00:27:56.040] So, you're gonna just keep your thing on pause and take yourself to 528-ish, somewhere in that neighborhood.
[00:27:56.040 --> 00:27:56.520] Okay.
[00:27:56.520 --> 00:27:59.640] And then we're just gonna go full screen.
[00:27:59.640 --> 00:28:00.200] Okay.
[00:28:00.200 --> 00:28:02.280] What does that full screen say, Mike?
[00:28:02.280 --> 00:28:08.120] It says sources remain unclear, and it has insufficient citations.
[00:28:08.120 --> 00:28:08.840] Oh, yeah.
[00:28:08.840 --> 00:28:18.800] And then it says, the halitosis bomb and gay bomb are informal names for two theoretical non-lethal chemical weapons that a U.S.
[00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:23.840] Air Force research laboratory speculated about producing.
[00:28:23.840 --> 00:28:32.480] So if you pause the show that you're watching when you're watching Alex Jones, it fully debunks itself.
[00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:44.960] It's also very funny to me because even if you could produce this bomb, it's not like homosexuality just turns you into this like rapacious sex wanter immediately.
[00:28:44.960 --> 00:28:56.000] Like if I was like in my house and like cutting vegetables and all of a sudden like some vapor came in the room that made me straight, I would just keep cutting vegetables like my life wouldn't immediately change.
[00:28:56.000 --> 00:29:00.720] You wouldn't flip over your cutting board and just like tear into some raw beef.
[00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:07.280] This only works if you think that gay people are like driven mad immediately like by their gayness.
[00:29:07.600 --> 00:29:21.840] So Alex Jones actually doesn't specifically mention soy in this clip, but I think it's a really good indicator of sort of where the right is at on again this perceived threat to white masculinity, right?
[00:29:22.080 --> 00:29:34.160] That this whole thing is about like they're turning frogs gay and there's the gay bomb and all of this sort of stuff is really sort of softening the ground for this for this soy panic stuff.
[00:29:34.160 --> 00:29:43.680] So I guess what we've got so far is like the men's health article and the Alex Jones clip are basically two ends of the spectrum of the same concept, right?
[00:29:43.680 --> 00:29:48.400] It's like the men's health one is like the most respectable form of the idea.
[00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:51.120] They're like, oh, the science sayswers that phytoestrogens, blah, blah, blah.
[00:29:51.680 --> 00:30:00.000] And then Alex Jones is a completely out in outer space version of it that is just like, you're drinking chemicals and now you're gay sort of thing.
[00:30:00.440 --> 00:30:10.920] But basically, there's a wide spectrum of ideology that is getting this message that like there is some threat to masculinity and it's like through the form of food.
[00:30:10.920 --> 00:30:11.880] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:19.000] Like part of what we're seeing here is that depending on what you ingest, you could become a gay frog.
[00:30:19.320 --> 00:30:21.560] You could grow breasts.
[00:30:21.560 --> 00:30:21.960] Right?
[00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:22.440] Yeah.
[00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:30.920] All of this stuff is sort of getting reached for through this particular portal of like it's about things that you ingest.
[00:30:30.920 --> 00:30:39.960] It's also very interesting to me that it's like it's turning the frogs gay and that's a threat to masculinity when like you can be gay and masculine.
[00:30:39.960 --> 00:30:40.200] Right.
[00:30:40.280 --> 00:30:42.760] Like my grinder profile says mask for mask.
[00:30:42.760 --> 00:30:43.160] No.
[00:30:43.480 --> 00:30:46.840] It's a very important value for me, as everyone knows.
[00:30:46.840 --> 00:30:51.080] So that Alex Jones freak out is in 2015.
[00:30:51.400 --> 00:30:59.160] And again, like all of these things are doing just little things and little things and little things to sort of ratchet this conversation up.
[00:30:59.800 --> 00:31:05.960] It's not until 2017 that we get the emergence of Soy Boy as like an insult, right?
[00:31:05.960 --> 00:31:06.440] Oh.
[00:31:06.440 --> 00:31:13.000] The history of who first used Soy Boy as a pejorative is disputed.
[00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:13.240] Okay.
[00:31:13.240 --> 00:31:21.880] There are some folks who say that the first appearance was a 4chan comment of someone just calling someone else a soy boy cuckold.
[00:31:21.880 --> 00:31:22.280] Okay.
[00:31:22.280 --> 00:31:25.880] Some folks claim it was Mike Cernovich.
[00:31:26.200 --> 00:31:27.640] Do you know Mike Cernovich?
[00:31:27.640 --> 00:31:28.760] He's just like a far-right guy.
[00:31:28.760 --> 00:31:30.520] Wasn't he the Pizzagate guy?
[00:31:30.520 --> 00:31:31.800] Yeah, he's a blogger.
[00:31:31.800 --> 00:31:32.920] He's a far-right dude.
[00:31:32.920 --> 00:31:35.400] He's big in the manosphere.
[00:31:35.720 --> 00:31:43.400] His sort of claim or the thing that he's credited with in all of this is posting the following image.
[00:31:43.400 --> 00:31:44.720] I don't know, you're going to show it to me.
[00:31:44.440 --> 00:31:45.760] I'm showing it to you.
[00:31:44.600 --> 00:31:49.680] I'm sorry the image quality is so tiny and small.
[00:31:49.680 --> 00:31:50.080] Okay.
[00:31:44.920 --> 00:31:51.360] Oh my fucking god.
[00:31:52.480 --> 00:32:03.760] So it's an image meme of like a bunch of dudes in suits and he superimposed a bunch of those like pussy hats from the women's march on top of them.
[00:32:03.760 --> 00:32:08.160] And then the header says the soy boys.
[00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:11.360] And then it says under that soy boy.
[00:32:11.360 --> 00:32:17.920] Slang used to describe males who completely and utterly lack all necessary masculine qualities.
[00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:26.560] This pathetic state is usually achieved by an overindulgence of emasculating products and/or ideologies.
[00:32:26.560 --> 00:32:30.400] Oh, so products like tofu and SJW podcasts.
[00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:38.400] Mike, I feel like you've missed a critical part of the sort of text of this image, and that might be down to the low resolution.
[00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:51.760] Those people are Stephen Colbert, Conan O'Brien, James Corden, Jimmy Kimmel, John Oliver, Seth Myers, Jimmy Fallon, Bill Maher, Larry Wilmore, and Trevor Noah.
[00:32:51.760 --> 00:32:53.440] Well, Bill Maher's kind of a soy boy.
[00:32:54.480 --> 00:32:56.080] But everybody else, that's mean.
[00:32:56.080 --> 00:32:58.640] So it's like a picture of late-night show hosts.
[00:32:58.800 --> 00:32:59.600] So why is this?
[00:32:59.600 --> 00:33:01.440] Why is this what they're mad at?
[00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:04.640] I tried to find the source tweet, but it's been deleted.
[00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:06.480] So I don't know.
[00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:18.720] Regardless of which one of these absolute fucking gremlins started it, this is the year 2017 that the concept of the soy boy sort of took off online.
[00:33:18.720 --> 00:33:26.400] There's a far-right YouTuber who releases a video called The Truth About Soy Face, and it just gets tons and tons of views.
[00:33:26.400 --> 00:33:28.880] That YouTuber is named Paul Joseph Watson.
[00:33:29.520 --> 00:33:31.400] I knew he was going to be in there.
[00:33:32.840 --> 00:33:36.520] Tell me what you know about Paul Joseph Watson because I didn't know shit about shit.
[00:33:36.520 --> 00:33:38.440] He's, I don't, is it a real accent?
[00:33:38.440 --> 00:33:39.720] He's British, I think.
[00:33:39.720 --> 00:33:40.920] He's from Sheffield.
[00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:42.520] Wasn't he on Alex Jones' show?
[00:33:42.520 --> 00:33:43.960] Wasn't he an Infowars guy?
[00:33:43.960 --> 00:33:49.480] He was like a little, he was a little like karate kid to like Alex Jones's Mr.
[00:33:49.480 --> 00:33:50.200] Miyagi.
[00:33:50.520 --> 00:33:56.760] He was an InfoWars employee for a very long time, starting in 2002.
[00:33:56.760 --> 00:34:01.240] Employee, imagine filling out your W-2 with like InfoWars LLC.
[00:34:01.480 --> 00:34:04.280] Imagine listing Alex Jones as a reference.
[00:34:08.680 --> 00:34:15.400] The content is all exactly what you would expect from a longtime InfoWars staffer, right?
[00:34:15.400 --> 00:34:20.120] He's got a bunch of conspiracy theories about Islamic takeovers.
[00:34:20.440 --> 00:34:26.280] He's just doing the like explicit proud misogyny, transphobia, racism.
[00:34:26.280 --> 00:34:26.680] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:34:27.080 --> 00:34:36.600] And particularly when it comes to soy, he calls the popularization of soy, quote, a globalist chemical warfare program.
[00:34:36.600 --> 00:34:41.960] For the uninitiated, globalist is used as an anti-Semitic dog whistle, right?
[00:34:41.960 --> 00:34:42.280] Yeah.
[00:34:42.280 --> 00:34:47.880] It is built on the idea for many that the world is run by like a secret cabal of Jewish people.
[00:34:47.880 --> 00:34:55.560] It's also the same thing of like they maintain just enough plausible deniability to be like, well, we never said it was anti-Semitic.
[00:34:55.560 --> 00:34:58.520] It's like the ringtone that only teenagers can hear.
[00:34:58.520 --> 00:34:58.920] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:34:59.320 --> 00:35:03.080] You just say globalist and only racist are like Jewish people.
[00:35:03.080 --> 00:35:03.560] Yeah.
[00:35:03.880 --> 00:35:05.800] So that's 2018.
[00:35:05.800 --> 00:35:11.880] The next stop in our story is a very weird one.
[00:35:11.880 --> 00:35:28.240] It takes us to a trade publication from the plain states in 2019 when a veterinarian publishes a piece in his local trade publication, the Tri-State Livestock News.
[00:35:28.640 --> 00:35:41.360] He wrote a piece focused on the impossible whopper that included the absolute banger of a line, quote, here's to hoping that the impossible whopper is a possible flopper.
[00:35:41.360 --> 00:35:43.120] Oh, God.
[00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:48.480] That's like something we would try as a tagline and be like, ooh, even for you, Mike.
[00:35:50.560 --> 00:35:52.160] I would fire you for that.
[00:35:55.920 --> 00:36:03.120] So the idea behind this piece is that the main ingredient in Impossible Meat and Beyond Meat is soy.
[00:36:03.440 --> 00:36:14.800] So in this piece, he claims that, quote, an impossible whopper has 18 million times as much estrogen as a regular whopper.
[00:36:14.800 --> 00:36:22.960] And he directly says that eating four impossible whoppers per day would, quote, grow boobs on a male.
[00:36:22.960 --> 00:36:23.920] Oh, God.
[00:36:23.920 --> 00:36:28.080] Estrogen, he says 18 million times as much estrogen.
[00:36:28.080 --> 00:36:30.480] There is no estrogen.
[00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:35.360] It's phytoestrogens, which are similar but a different thing.
[00:36:35.360 --> 00:36:36.880] Is he just like making this number up?
[00:36:37.040 --> 00:36:38.160] Where is anybody getting this?
[00:36:38.160 --> 00:36:40.480] He's just pulling this shit out of thin air.
[00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:44.560] And like, listen, this piece went viral.
[00:36:44.560 --> 00:36:45.120] Yeah.
[00:36:45.120 --> 00:36:55.520] This goes so far and wide that at one point this guy gets a call from a reporter at the Atlantic who is like, hey, do you want to say anything about how far and wide this has gone?
[00:36:55.520 --> 00:36:58.640] And he was like, yeah, we published a retraction.
[00:36:58.640 --> 00:37:01.080] I didn't expect this to go that far and wide.
[00:37:01.080 --> 00:37:04.040] I understand now that I'm wrong and I wish I'd never written it.
[00:37:04.040 --> 00:37:07.880] Like, he really goes hard on like, I fucked this up.
[00:37:08.120 --> 00:37:11.480] But that doesn't get, of course, anywhere near as far, right?
[00:37:11.480 --> 00:37:11.960] Yeah.
[00:37:11.960 --> 00:37:23.800] It's not until 2021 that the mainstream mainstream of the GOP really keys into sort of soy panic and the masculinity crisis, right?
[00:37:24.040 --> 00:37:26.520] Wait, how many years from Alex Jones are we?
[00:37:26.520 --> 00:37:29.240] It's like from Alex Jones to like Ted Cruz.
[00:37:29.640 --> 00:37:31.080] Yeah, six years.
[00:37:31.080 --> 00:37:31.800] Six years.
[00:37:31.800 --> 00:37:32.440] Exactly.
[00:37:32.440 --> 00:37:32.840] Exactly.
[00:37:32.840 --> 00:37:33.560] Six years.
[00:37:33.560 --> 00:37:35.880] That's actually a little slower than it usually takes.
[00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:42.040] So 2021 is when Josh Hawley starts talking about masculinity stuff more.
[00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:55.080] This is when JD Vance has his like garbage tweets about Kyle Rittenhouse being like an issue of like broken homes and fathers and abandoning our boys and all of that.
[00:37:55.080 --> 00:38:06.680] In 2021, Jodi Ernst, who's a Republican from Iowa, introduces a bill called the Telling Agencies to Stop Tweaking What Employees Eat Act.
[00:38:06.680 --> 00:38:08.680] Oh, that has to stand for something.
[00:38:08.680 --> 00:38:11.320] Which is the Tasty Act.
[00:38:11.320 --> 00:38:12.280] Oh, God.
[00:38:12.600 --> 00:38:18.280] The Tasty Act would ban meatless Mondays in federal buildings.
[00:38:18.280 --> 00:38:20.440] This is such pussy shit.
[00:38:20.680 --> 00:38:23.160] Stop banning stuff that you don't like.
[00:38:23.160 --> 00:38:25.640] It's so bizarre to me.
[00:38:25.640 --> 00:38:28.680] It's turning me into one of these fucking men's rights guys.
[00:38:28.680 --> 00:38:33.400] I'm like, this is the pussification of America is men fucking moaning about shit like this.
[00:38:34.920 --> 00:38:45.040] This narrative really reaches a crescendo actually last year when Tucker Carlson released a documentary called The End of Men.
[00:38:45.040 --> 00:38:47.760] The Red Ball, the Red Ball Obelisk documentary.
[00:38:44.840 --> 00:38:48.400] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:52.560] The Red Light scrotum tanning.
[00:38:52.560 --> 00:38:55.920] Which we both refused to Google because we're like, oh my God, we're not going to spend time on this.
[00:38:55.920 --> 00:38:57.280] But then I did spend time on it.
[00:38:57.280 --> 00:38:58.080] I watched it.
[00:38:58.080 --> 00:38:59.200] I watched it a couple of times.
[00:38:59.200 --> 00:39:00.080] My terrible.
[00:39:00.160 --> 00:39:00.720] Jesus Christ.
[00:39:00.720 --> 00:39:09.920] We're not going to go into it here because I want to do a bonus episode on it because every sentence in it is the most bananas nonsense you've ever heard.
[00:39:09.920 --> 00:39:11.360] Rich text.
[00:39:11.360 --> 00:39:13.760] But I did want to share this one portion.
[00:39:13.760 --> 00:39:19.120] It's a quote from someone who calls himself the raw egg nationalist.
[00:39:19.120 --> 00:39:20.080] Oh, what?
[00:39:20.080 --> 00:39:22.960] What are those words in that order?
[00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:24.240] What?
[00:39:25.840 --> 00:39:28.960] I love that you and I are both like, join me.
[00:39:28.960 --> 00:39:29.760] This is gross.
[00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:32.400] God, can we as a society agree on one fucking thing?
[00:39:32.400 --> 00:39:33.760] Raw eggs.
[00:39:34.080 --> 00:39:35.200] Can we all just agree?
[00:39:35.200 --> 00:39:37.280] Don't eat fucking raw eggs, guys.
[00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:39.520] Not if you're talking to the raw egg nationalist.
[00:39:39.520 --> 00:39:40.880] Here, we have one thing.
[00:39:41.200 --> 00:39:42.640] I just sent you a quote.
[00:39:42.640 --> 00:39:51.840] This is something that raw egg nationalist says in this documentary that really sort of encapsulates quite a bit of his message, as far as I can tell.
[00:39:51.840 --> 00:39:53.840] Oh my god, this is such a masterpiece, Aubrey.
[00:39:53.840 --> 00:39:54.640] You're welcome.
[00:39:54.640 --> 00:39:58.880] The enemy today is what I like to call soy globalism.
[00:39:58.880 --> 00:40:12.560] The globalist aim is to destroy nations and global communities, and they do this by isolating communities and sickening them through food and also through so-called medicine and all the chemicals we're exposed to on a daily basis.
[00:40:12.560 --> 00:40:16.960] The globalists want you to be fat, sick, depressed, and isolated.
[00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:23.040] The better to control you and milk you for as much economic value as they can before they kill you.
[00:40:23.040 --> 00:40:26.880] By making an individual strong, you make a nation strong.
[00:40:26.880 --> 00:40:34.600] It's wild that it is like such deep, fringe, horrifying conspiracy theories.
[00:40:34.920 --> 00:40:37.880] And this aired on Fox News.
[00:40:37.880 --> 00:40:40.680] Yeah, like a normal mainstream quote.
[00:40:40.920 --> 00:40:44.920] This is shit that is on TV and a lot of people are watching it.
[00:40:44.920 --> 00:40:46.680] It's also, it's so disingenuous too.
[00:40:46.760 --> 00:40:50.440] He says, like, they want to milk you for as much economic value as they can.
[00:40:50.440 --> 00:40:50.920] Okay, great.
[00:40:50.920 --> 00:40:53.160] So you support a higher minimum wage then, right?
[00:40:53.160 --> 00:40:53.480] No.
[00:40:53.480 --> 00:40:53.880] Yeah.
[00:40:53.960 --> 00:40:55.160] You support unions, right?
[00:40:55.160 --> 00:40:55.640] No.
[00:40:56.280 --> 00:40:56.920] So what are we?
[00:40:57.000 --> 00:41:01.160] It's like they use these arguments, but they don't actually believe any of this shit, right?
[00:41:01.160 --> 00:41:09.480] They're just preying on people who are like low information enough that they don't know the actual ideology behind this stuff because none of these people are going to make your life any better.
[00:41:09.480 --> 00:41:21.480] Yeah, I mean, it's also wild to just think through all of this and be like, man, there are so many legit things to worry about with cis men's health, but none of them are this.
[00:41:21.800 --> 00:41:23.560] Get your prostate checked.
[00:41:23.560 --> 00:41:24.840] Get your regular screenings.
[00:41:24.840 --> 00:41:26.360] Get your prostate checked.
[00:41:26.680 --> 00:41:28.280] Get your fucking vaccines.
[00:41:28.280 --> 00:41:29.640] Get your shingles vaccines.
[00:41:29.640 --> 00:41:31.400] Like, go to the doctor regularly.
[00:41:31.400 --> 00:41:31.640] Right?
[00:41:31.640 --> 00:41:36.760] Like, there's like a bunch of stuff that we could actually actively be working on with cis dudes.
[00:41:36.760 --> 00:41:43.640] Also, yeah, I feel like the biggest thing with cis dudes these days is like depression and loneliness and like suicides and like potentially drug overdoses.
[00:41:43.640 --> 00:41:52.440] It's like, yeah, there's real problems that I think are like absolutely worth taking seriously, but like to take them seriously, you have to talk about the actual problem.
[00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:55.880] So now we're in this place where sort of the cat's out of the bag, right?
[00:41:55.880 --> 00:42:03.800] Like, I think we're at a point now where it is kind of threatening to tip from a far-right idea to a center-right idea.
[00:42:03.800 --> 00:42:10.840] That's already happened, but from a center-right idea back to being sort of a mainstream myth about health.
[00:42:10.840 --> 00:42:13.240] And that part makes me nervous.
[00:42:13.240 --> 00:42:21.040] Also, it's so, it's weirdly important to these like man gurus or something that like masculinity has to be under attack all the time.
[00:42:21.280 --> 00:42:30.640] They have this like strange conception where it's like masculinity is like this all-powerful thing, but also like it can crumble down at the slightest poke.
[00:42:30.640 --> 00:42:42.160] This sort of like masculinity under attack, the war on Christmas, all of that shit, is a way of being like, I'm actually just defending myself, and you're the one who's attacking me.
[00:42:42.160 --> 00:42:42.640] Right, right.
[00:42:42.640 --> 00:42:43.680] This is self-defense.
[00:42:43.680 --> 00:42:47.680] So, like, it allows people to do this weird Jedi mind trick with themselves, right?
[00:42:47.680 --> 00:42:50.160] Because it's also, it's like, yeah, if you don't want to eat tofu, don't eat tofu.
[00:42:50.160 --> 00:42:50.960] Not everybody likes tofu.
[00:42:50.960 --> 00:42:51.360] It's totally fine.
[00:42:51.360 --> 00:42:53.120] If you don't want to go see Barbie, don't go see Barbie.
[00:42:53.120 --> 00:42:54.240] It's not like, it's fine.
[00:42:54.240 --> 00:42:55.040] Nobody gives a shit.
[00:42:55.040 --> 00:42:59.600] It's like the weird, there's something so fucking insecure about all of this stuff.
[00:42:59.600 --> 00:43:05.280] And like, I don't want to call these people like soy beta cucks because that's like problematic to like invoke.
[00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:05.520] Yeah.
[00:43:05.520 --> 00:43:08.800] But it is like by their own fucking standards of masculinity.
[00:43:08.800 --> 00:43:10.720] This is not alpha behavior.
[00:43:10.720 --> 00:43:12.720] This is some real beta bullshit.
[00:43:12.720 --> 00:43:14.320] It's some beta bullshit, dude.
[00:43:14.320 --> 00:43:18.800] Take it from a five foot six podcaster with huge hands.
[00:43:18.800 --> 00:43:23.440] Take it from the leftist podcaster who's gay that you've been dying.
[00:43:23.760 --> 00:43:25.760] SJW podcaster.
[00:43:26.560 --> 00:43:30.480] His purple punnel does not allow him to get in fights, but still.

Prompt 2: Key Takeaways

Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.

Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...". 

Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive. 

IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}

Prompt 3: Segments

Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.

For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)  
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion

IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
  "segments": [
    {
      "segment_title": "Topic Discussion", 
      "timestamp": "01:15:30",
      "key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
      "segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
    }
  ]
}

Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.

Prompt 4: Media Mentions

Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:

Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)  
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)

DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names

IMPORTANT: 
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
  "media_mentions": [
    {
      "title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
      "category": "Book",
      "author_artist": "N/A",
      "context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
      "context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
      "timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
    }
  ]
}

If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}

Full Transcript

[00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:04.080] Also, due to my hand problems, I'm no longer holding my mic.
[00:00:04.080 --> 00:00:09.680] I have a mic stand now, and so I can do, I can do the clap emojis.
[00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:12.960] Like, give the men estrogen.
[00:00:23.920 --> 00:00:26.720] Okay, I have one, but it's it might be too scientific.
[00:00:26.720 --> 00:00:28.080] Oh, interesting.
[00:00:28.080 --> 00:00:33.440] As an expert in this field, as an expert in this field, I can't wait to hear what comes next.
[00:00:33.440 --> 00:00:34.960] To educate the public.
[00:00:35.920 --> 00:00:36.880] Welcome.
[00:00:36.880 --> 00:00:44.080] Welcome to Maintenance Phase, the podcast that says yestrogen to all forms of estrogen.
[00:00:44.080 --> 00:00:45.600] People thought I wasn't an expert.
[00:00:45.600 --> 00:00:48.080] People thought I didn't know, but I do know.
[00:00:48.080 --> 00:00:51.680] Big I am Canuff energy.
[00:00:52.640 --> 00:00:56.480] If this one was about testosterone, it would have been, say, yestosterone.
[00:00:56.480 --> 00:00:59.920] It wouldn't have been testosterone in the San Francisco treat.
[00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:02.480] I'm Michael Hopps.
[00:01:02.480 --> 00:01:04.000] I am Aubrey Gordon.
[00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:08.720] If you would like to support the show, you can do that at patreon.com slash maintenance phase.
[00:01:08.720 --> 00:01:11.280] You can also subscribe through Apple Podcast Premium.
[00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:13.440] It's the same audio content.
[00:01:13.440 --> 00:01:14.160] Michael.
[00:01:14.160 --> 00:01:15.200] Aubrey, I'm so excited.
[00:01:15.200 --> 00:01:18.000] I'm not even letting you get to the today we're doing part.
[00:01:18.400 --> 00:01:19.040] You're so excited.
[00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:20.640] Tell me what you're excited about.
[00:01:20.640 --> 00:01:26.640] Because I, okay, I am like such a beta cook person that like I already feel seen.
[00:01:26.960 --> 00:01:30.720] This one is about the soy boy thing, right?
[00:01:30.720 --> 00:01:31.280] Uh-huh.
[00:01:31.520 --> 00:01:35.120] Men are growing boobs because they're eating tofu or something.
[00:01:35.120 --> 00:01:35.760] Yes.
[00:01:35.760 --> 00:01:47.600] Today we're going to be talking about sort of the right-wing insult soy boy, which has sort of morphed into almost a plank in the Republican platforms.
[00:01:47.600 --> 00:01:48.560] Yeah, it's really bleak.
[00:01:48.560 --> 00:01:53.600] And we're also going to figure out what the underlying science is from all of that.
[00:01:53.600 --> 00:01:55.280] What does the research say about fapping?
[00:01:55.280 --> 00:01:58.080] What does the fapp or Cochrane review say?
[00:01:58.080 --> 00:02:02.840] So, just to start us off, for folks who are unfamiliar, first of all, congratulations.
[00:02:03.160 --> 00:02:11.400] Soy boy is an insult or sort of pejorative that's very popular in far-right spaces, especially online spaces.
[00:02:11.400 --> 00:02:19.880] It goes in the same sort of category as calling men like cucks or low-tee or beta males or new males.
[00:02:19.880 --> 00:02:22.600] I have been called all of those things and I agree.
[00:02:22.600 --> 00:02:23.480] Yeah, that's right.
[00:02:23.480 --> 00:02:25.720] You're part of the extended cuckiverse.
[00:02:25.720 --> 00:02:37.240] Oh, so I thought we would watch a little video clip of someone who I thought would be a real expert in this explaining what a soy boy is.
[00:02:37.240 --> 00:02:38.360] Oh, no.
[00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:42.520] Soy is like a political fruit or a vegetable.
[00:02:42.680 --> 00:02:43.080] Is it?
[00:02:43.080 --> 00:02:43.960] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:02:43.960 --> 00:02:45.640] People call you a soy boy.
[00:02:45.640 --> 00:02:49.880] If you're a Republican, people call weak men soy boys.
[00:02:49.880 --> 00:02:50.760] I never knew that.
[00:02:50.760 --> 00:02:54.360] Soy is one of the rare foods that's actually attached to being a bitch.
[00:02:54.360 --> 00:02:55.640] That's a pussy food?
[00:02:55.640 --> 00:02:57.640] And this is not my perspective.
[00:02:57.640 --> 00:03:00.600] This is just, I just think it's a fucking plant.
[00:03:00.600 --> 00:03:01.640] It doesn't matter to me.
[00:03:01.640 --> 00:03:01.960] Right.
[00:03:01.960 --> 00:03:04.920] I think soy lowers your testosterone.
[00:03:05.000 --> 00:03:06.120] I think there's like estrogen.
[00:03:06.440 --> 00:03:06.680] Yeah.
[00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:07.240] Yeah.
[00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:14.360] Soy isoflavones can produce estrogen-like activity in the body, mimicking the effects of natural estrogen.
[00:03:14.360 --> 00:03:14.760] Yeah.
[00:03:14.760 --> 00:03:17.320] But I think you can grow titties off of soy?
[00:03:17.320 --> 00:03:19.320] Not quite, but it might feminize you.
[00:03:19.320 --> 00:03:20.520] It might feminize you.
[00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:20.920] Fuck soy.
[00:03:21.640 --> 00:03:24.440] Plants affect your hormone production.
[00:03:25.080 --> 00:03:30.600] This is how I want to learn my scientific information from one comedian telling another comedian.
[00:03:30.600 --> 00:03:32.120] Michael, tell me your thoughts and feelings.
[00:03:32.120 --> 00:03:35.960] Does this comport with what you would expect of Joe Rogan?
[00:03:35.960 --> 00:03:39.560] And does this comport with what you have heard about soy?
[00:03:39.560 --> 00:03:41.800] Sorry, can you give me a second of just fitting my sports bra?
[00:03:41.800 --> 00:03:43.480] Because I had some cookie this morning.
[00:03:43.800 --> 00:03:46.160] Very logistically difficult for me.
[00:03:44.920 --> 00:03:50.160] This is like the fucking perfect Joe Rogan thing where he's like, I don't know, man.
[00:03:50.240 --> 00:03:53.600] Like, some people think it's like pussifying, but like, I don't know, man.
[00:03:53.600 --> 00:03:54.720] Anyway, why don't we Google that?
[00:03:54.720 --> 00:03:55.920] Oh, yeah, it turns out it is.
[00:03:55.920 --> 00:04:00.000] Yeah, here's some here's some crank screenshot from some crank website.
[00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:03.840] I mean, he brings it back to the I don't believe it at the end of this segment.
[00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:04.320] Okay.
[00:04:04.320 --> 00:04:09.280] And Donnell Rawlings, I will say, hilariously chimes in with, I thought it was about being a foodie.
[00:04:09.280 --> 00:04:17.840] I do think there's probably something to that, though, in that it's kind of coded as like liberal, ethete, ivory tower, like lib bullshit, right?
[00:04:17.840 --> 00:04:19.040] I mean, this is kind of the whole thing.
[00:04:19.040 --> 00:04:21.520] It's like a, it's a culture war thing.
[00:04:21.520 --> 00:04:31.760] More than, I mean, obviously more than it's any kind of scientific stuff, but it's basically like people I don't like are like really into tofu and therefore tofu must be like uniquely pernicious in some way.
[00:04:31.760 --> 00:04:32.240] Totally.
[00:04:32.240 --> 00:04:38.240] So the people I don't like part is sort of the caricature of a soy boy, right?
[00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:38.560] Right.
[00:04:38.560 --> 00:04:41.680] They're usually depicted as being sort of unathletic.
[00:04:41.680 --> 00:04:43.840] They don't really have muscle tone.
[00:04:43.840 --> 00:04:51.760] They are generally seen to have feminine traits, small hands, small features, breast tissue as part of it, right?
[00:04:51.760 --> 00:04:56.640] They're usually shown wearing glasses and with an untrimmed beard.
[00:04:56.640 --> 00:04:56.960] Okay.
[00:04:56.960 --> 00:04:58.960] It's like a little scraggly, right?
[00:04:58.960 --> 00:05:00.560] Okay, there's like a whole aesthetic.
[00:05:00.560 --> 00:05:07.920] And there is a face that's called soy face or this, I prefer this name, Soylent Grin.
[00:05:07.920 --> 00:05:09.280] Oh, that's pretty good.
[00:05:09.280 --> 00:05:11.840] Wait, let me Google Soylent.
[00:05:12.160 --> 00:05:16.200] Oh, because that's sort of like the Aziz Ansari face in Parks and Rec.
[00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:19.840] Yeah, big, open-mouthed, surprised smile.
[00:05:19.840 --> 00:05:26.800] I was just about to be like, I make that, but that's kind of proof of their point, I guess, if you're in this world.
[00:05:26.800 --> 00:05:29.600] This is quietly just an intervention for you.
[00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:30.280] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:05:30.440 --> 00:05:33.160] Joe Rogan's right over your shoulder.
[00:05:33.160 --> 00:05:34.600] Tell him the face thing.
[00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:37.080] Mike, there's life after being a gay person.
[00:05:37.240 --> 00:05:39.160] You don't have to live this hard.
[00:05:40.120 --> 00:05:43.640] I also, I will say, I have huge hands.
[00:05:43.640 --> 00:05:54.040] I don't know that was like a masculine feminine thing, but like for a beta cup, like a five foot six, effeminate, prancing little man, I have giant hands.
[00:05:54.040 --> 00:05:55.960] Maybe you're not a soy boy.
[00:05:55.960 --> 00:05:58.680] The whole point of this episode for me is to prove my masculinity.
[00:05:58.680 --> 00:06:06.120] So in addition to all of those sort of physical features, the sort of soy boy stereotype also includes them being vegetarian or vegan.
[00:06:06.120 --> 00:06:06.520] Yeah.
[00:06:06.520 --> 00:06:14.280] They're also considered to be SJWs, but not like the sort of like boundless rage of lady SJWs.
[00:06:14.280 --> 00:06:18.120] The idea here is that they're sort of the cowed male equivalent.
[00:06:18.120 --> 00:06:21.560] And they're sort of betraying their sex, too, right?
[00:06:21.560 --> 00:06:25.720] It's like, well, as a man, you're sort of supposed to be like loyal to other men, right?
[00:06:25.720 --> 00:06:28.440] You're not supposed to be like talking about like, oh, the gender wage gap and stuff.
[00:06:28.440 --> 00:06:29.320] Like, come on, man.
[00:06:29.320 --> 00:06:29.560] Yeah.
[00:06:29.560 --> 00:06:33.480] And I also think this is a term that is deeply, deeply racialized.
[00:06:33.480 --> 00:06:33.800] Yeah, yeah.
[00:06:34.040 --> 00:06:38.440] So there's also a little tinge of sort of like race traitor that's happening in there, right?
[00:06:38.440 --> 00:06:38.840] Yeah.
[00:06:38.840 --> 00:06:45.240] So in order to talk about this sort of set of myths and this kind of right-wing panic, we got to talk about soy a little bit.
[00:06:45.800 --> 00:06:51.800] Soy itself has been cultivated in East Asia for thousands of years.
[00:06:52.040 --> 00:06:53.960] It has a ton of advantages.
[00:06:53.960 --> 00:06:55.880] As a crop, it's hardy.
[00:06:55.880 --> 00:06:58.680] It can grow in pretty low-quality soil.
[00:06:58.680 --> 00:07:07.320] And it also, like any sort of beans and peas that you might grow, as gardeners know, it will actually enrich the soil for the next crop that you plant.
[00:07:07.320 --> 00:07:08.440] It sounds like a pretty hardy crop.
[00:07:08.440 --> 00:07:09.960] It sounds pretty manly, honestly.
[00:07:09.960 --> 00:07:11.800] It sounds fairly alpha.
[00:07:11.800 --> 00:07:24.160] So the 70s is when we start to see much more of a takeoff of like tofu in particular and soy as like the main event, which is also around the same time that the U.S.
[00:07:24.160 --> 00:07:30.640] starts to experience a real boom in natural foods and health food stores, right?
[00:07:30.640 --> 00:07:36.400] So there's more of an idea that some foods are really good, some foods are really bad.
[00:07:36.400 --> 00:07:43.840] And at this point, we start getting layers of moralizing about it and sort of what those foods say about who you are.
[00:07:44.160 --> 00:07:51.120] This is also around the time that people start really wrapping up our understanding of tofu in our understanding of vegetarians.
[00:07:51.520 --> 00:07:56.480] We start getting more of a market for vegetarians and more of a market for vegetarian foods.
[00:07:56.480 --> 00:08:09.760] Things like tofu dogs start popping up in grocery stores, and folks become sort of more aware if they are not vegetarian, that there is sort of a growing sense that there are more and more vegetarians around them.
[00:08:09.760 --> 00:08:10.000] Right.
[00:08:10.480 --> 00:08:22.000] This is, we talked about this in our vegetarianism episode, but also, I don't know if this is when it happened, but we also get the social construction of vegetarians and vegans as sort of like holier than thou.
[00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:30.160] I mean, I have not met a vegan like this, but this idea of like they're constantly scolding you and they think they're better than you and all this stuff.
[00:08:30.160 --> 00:08:32.160] Like I remember this stuff from the 90s.
[00:08:32.160 --> 00:08:34.480] Can I tell you my theory about where that comes from?
[00:08:35.040 --> 00:08:36.080] I think it is.
[00:08:36.080 --> 00:08:51.040] So listen, we talked about this a little bit in our food pyramid episode, that there was sort of this push by doctors to define vegetarianism as sort of the heart-healthiest diet and the thing you ought to pursue, and like cut out animal products.
[00:08:51.040 --> 00:09:02.200] But I think that folks were feeling really judged by that and externalized that response to feeling judged as like they're always preaching to you.
[00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:06.280] People used to mention tofu the way that they would mention like John Tesh.
[00:09:06.600 --> 00:09:10.840] Tesh is like the most obviously just like loser shit.
[00:09:10.840 --> 00:09:12.840] Like, that guy eats tofu.
[00:09:13.080 --> 00:09:14.120] That is a true thing.
[00:09:14.120 --> 00:09:22.120] I think whatever a particular culture or group of people selects as their example of a gross out food is like incredibly telling.
[00:09:22.120 --> 00:09:22.600] Yeah, super.
[00:09:22.600 --> 00:09:22.920] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:09:23.160 --> 00:09:43.000] What I learned in the research of this sort of cultural anxiety about men and men's health is that this is actually a pretty long historical pattern of making fun of vegetarians more when white masculinity feels like it is sort of tenuous or outdated or under threat.
[00:09:43.720 --> 00:09:49.240] So dating back to the 1800s, people in the U.S.
[00:09:49.240 --> 00:09:59.400] and the UK started sort of depicting vegetarians, especially men who are vegetarians, as a kind of threat to like hegemonic masculinity, right?
[00:09:59.400 --> 00:10:06.440] That there's this implicit threat of a man deciding to do something other than what quote-unquote manly men are supposed to do.
[00:10:06.440 --> 00:10:09.240] This man is 5'6 and he hosts a podcast.
[00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:20.040] Partly this sort of response is because of the cultural association between masculinity and like hunting or domination or any of that kind of stuff.
[00:10:20.040 --> 00:10:32.600] But a lot of it has to do with sort of diets being lighter in animal products had long been associated with black, indigenous, and people of color, but particularly Asian people, right?
[00:10:32.920 --> 00:10:39.880] And existing stereotypes had depicted Asian cis men as effeminate and sort of insufficiently masculine, right?
[00:10:39.880 --> 00:10:41.800] Like that's a thing that continues to this day.
[00:10:41.800 --> 00:10:42.200] Yeah.
[00:10:42.520 --> 00:10:45.840] And those stereotypes, I did not fucking know this.
[00:10:46.160 --> 00:10:52.240] Those stereotypes were used to justify colonialism and colonialist projects throughout Asia.
[00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:52.640] Oh.
[00:10:52.640 --> 00:11:10.720] In 1884, there's an American neurologist who writes about Asian communities and sort of like the diets in East Asia and writes, quote, thus flesh-eating nations have ever been more aggressive than those peoples whose diet is largely or exclusively vegetable.
[00:11:10.720 --> 00:11:11.120] What?
[00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:25.520] The effeminate rice eaters in India and China have again and again yielded to the superior moral courage of an infinitely smaller number of meat-eating Englishmen.
[00:11:25.520 --> 00:11:32.080] Dude, how the fuck is a British person gonna be like, we're good at colonialism because our food is better?
[00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:36.960] I don't know how much you know about British food at this time.
[00:11:37.280 --> 00:11:39.600] Don't think that's the reason.
[00:11:39.920 --> 00:11:42.880] They haven't stolen Indian food yet.
[00:11:45.040 --> 00:11:47.600] We have like one and a half spices at this point.
[00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:57.760] So while all of these sorts of foods are getting attached to that idea of like the sort of like lefty vegan scold, right?
[00:11:58.080 --> 00:12:03.600] Foods like tofu become aligned with this kind of like classed liberalism, right?
[00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:03.920] Yeah.
[00:12:03.920 --> 00:12:09.360] That it's about both left-leaning politics, but also a certain amount of disposable income.
[00:12:09.360 --> 00:12:16.280] And other foods like red meat, which is quite expensive, become tied to conservatism in the popular imagination.
[00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:16.520] Right.
[00:12:16.800 --> 00:12:25.440] So by the early 1990s, Rush Limbaugh is already sort of railing against quote-unquote latte-drinking liberals, right?
[00:12:25.760 --> 00:12:33.640] The latte stuff, they still trot that out sometimes, which is the funky shit because lattes are now so fucking normal.
[00:12:33.640 --> 00:12:34.040] Yeah.
[00:12:34.040 --> 00:12:34.600] Yeah.
[00:12:34.600 --> 00:12:36.920] That's like not even like a liberal elite thing.
[00:12:36.920 --> 00:12:39.240] That's like a suburban strip mall thing.
[00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:43.480] This is where we get into the like real sort of modern origins of this myth.
[00:12:43.480 --> 00:12:44.200] If you're ready.
[00:12:44.200 --> 00:12:46.040] Does it start with Alex Jones?
[00:12:46.040 --> 00:12:48.280] No, it starts with 2006.
[00:12:48.280 --> 00:12:54.360] We're going to start with Michael Pollen publishing The Omnivores Dilemma.
[00:12:54.360 --> 00:12:56.040] We're coming for you, Pollen.
[00:12:56.360 --> 00:12:56.840] No.
[00:12:56.840 --> 00:12:58.200] We left him alive last time.
[00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:00.200] Like Saddam Hussein in the 90s.
[00:13:00.200 --> 00:13:01.240] We're coming back.
[00:13:01.880 --> 00:13:03.400] Jesus Christ.
[00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:08.040] So in 2006, Pollen publishes The Omnivores Dilemma.
[00:13:08.040 --> 00:13:11.960] And Rush Limbaugh really latches on.
[00:13:12.280 --> 00:13:14.440] Limbaugh was a pollen guy?
[00:13:14.440 --> 00:13:16.200] No, he was not a pollen guy.
[00:13:16.200 --> 00:13:17.640] He was like, get off my case.
[00:13:17.640 --> 00:13:18.760] I eat what I want.
[00:13:19.640 --> 00:13:21.160] So he was anti-pollen, okay?
[00:13:21.160 --> 00:13:23.320] He was totally anti-pollen.
[00:13:23.320 --> 00:13:23.880] Okay.
[00:13:23.880 --> 00:13:29.400] And this starts to sort of bubble up a little bit in conservative spaces.
[00:13:29.400 --> 00:13:40.840] So later that same year, the right-wing website WorldNet Daily ran a six-part feature on the hazards of quote-unquote health foods.
[00:13:40.840 --> 00:13:42.120] Oh, nice.
[00:13:42.920 --> 00:13:43.720] Nice.
[00:13:44.360 --> 00:13:45.480] What were the hazards?
[00:13:45.480 --> 00:14:00.280] The hazards were that soy and like flax and then a bunch of other health foods were the cause of homosexuality, early puberty, late puberty, and infrared.
[00:14:01.880 --> 00:14:04.920] That's false, though, because the cause of homosexuality is having small hands.
[00:14:04.920 --> 00:14:11.800] So, within a few years, those claims start to broaden, and they start to focus in on just soy, right?
[00:14:11.800 --> 00:14:16.880] Soy alone is now responsible for a quote-unquote feminization of cis men.
[00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:23.680] And that quote-unquote feminization was reported with this sort of air of medical authority, right?
[00:14:23.680 --> 00:14:25.280] That's like it's definitely happening.
[00:14:25.280 --> 00:14:28.320] We should all be freaked out, and the science is clear.
[00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:33.440] A lot of that traces back to one particular story.
[00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:38.640] Okay, that story is published in 2009 in Men's Health.
[00:14:38.640 --> 00:14:44.240] Oh, so I just sent you the screen grab of this, of the head and deck for this story.
[00:14:44.560 --> 00:14:47.120] Fuck yes, this is a question mark headline.
[00:14:47.120 --> 00:14:49.360] We love a question mark headline.
[00:14:49.680 --> 00:14:55.840] So it's like men's health, and then in you know, they have these like tags with like categories, right?
[00:14:55.840 --> 00:14:57.920] It'll be like movies or books or whatever.
[00:14:57.920 --> 00:15:02.320] The category of this story is soy's negative effects.
[00:15:02.560 --> 00:15:05.040] That's like the vertical.
[00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:11.200] And then the headline is: Is this the most dangerous food for men?
[00:15:11.520 --> 00:15:21.200] And then, sub-headline: the unassuming soybean has silently infiltrated the American diet as what might just be the perfect protein source.
[00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:25.520] It's cheap and vegetarian and could even unclog our hearts.
[00:15:25.520 --> 00:15:32.800] But there may be a hidden dark side to soy, one that has the power to undermine everything it means to be male.
[00:15:35.600 --> 00:15:42.880] So, here's my question: Based on your years of experience hosting the show with me, what do you expect this article to contain?
[00:15:42.880 --> 00:15:49.440] Maybe this is just because I've been reading too much anti-vax nonsense lately, but I'm expecting like an opening anecdote.
[00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:57.200] John always felt like a man, but then he ate a patty of tofu and now he has boobs or something, some like super anecdotal, unconfirmed report.
[00:15:57.200 --> 00:16:03.160] And then we're going to interview some like allegedly iconoclastic doctor.
[00:16:03.160 --> 00:16:07.400] Like the scientific consensus is that soybeans are fine, but like Dr.
[00:16:07.400 --> 00:16:11.640] So-and-so says that he sees patients with boobs or whatever.
[00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:14.760] God, it's like, you don't even need me here.
[00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:17.640] Yeah, I'll take the episode from here, Audrey.
[00:16:20.440 --> 00:16:25.720] Sorry, I have like, it's hilarious because that is like beat for fucking beat.
[00:16:26.040 --> 00:16:27.000] Fuck yes.
[00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:30.360] And I will say it doesn't, it's not that it starts with an anecdote.
[00:16:30.360 --> 00:16:31.720] It starts with an anecdote.
[00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:33.080] It middles with an anecdote.
[00:16:33.080 --> 00:16:34.840] It ends with an anecdote.
[00:16:34.840 --> 00:16:37.160] This is one person's story.
[00:16:37.160 --> 00:16:37.560] Oh.
[00:16:37.560 --> 00:16:43.800] The article focused on a guy named James Price, who was a retired U.S.
[00:16:43.800 --> 00:16:51.880] Army intelligence officer who was diagnosed with gynecomastia, which is enlarged mammary glands in men.
[00:16:52.200 --> 00:16:58.440] He says that he went in to seek treatment after feeling really emotionally dysregulated for a long time.
[00:16:58.440 --> 00:17:04.120] And he was like, it was above and beyond this thing, but it was around the time my wife died.
[00:17:04.120 --> 00:17:09.400] And I was like, buddy, you're going to feel emotionally dysregulated after your partner dies.
[00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:12.600] But he was, again, he was like, no, it was more than that.
[00:17:12.600 --> 00:17:17.320] But I was like, oh, this feels like a very funny joke about like a dude has a feeling and is like, I got to see a doctor.
[00:17:17.320 --> 00:17:17.800] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:19.400] And it must be the soybeans.
[00:17:19.400 --> 00:17:20.680] Yeah, totally.
[00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:26.760] So he went to the doctor and they ran a bunch of tests and spent a bunch of time investigating.
[00:17:26.760 --> 00:17:31.080] And they found that this one guy had elevated estrogen levels.
[00:17:31.080 --> 00:17:39.000] According to men's health, he had roughly eight times that would be expected for other cis men.
[00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:39.400] Okay.
[00:17:39.400 --> 00:17:48.400] As the story unfolds, we find out that this guy, James Price, found out that he was lactose intolerant some years earlier.
[00:17:44.680 --> 00:17:50.400] So he had switched to soy milk.
[00:17:44.840 --> 00:17:50.640] Okay.
[00:17:50.960 --> 00:18:01.680] And when the doctor asked him how much soy milk he drank, he said it was like one of his favorite drinks, and that he estimated that he drank about three quarts of soy milk a day.
[00:18:01.680 --> 00:18:05.200] He has like a big gulp cup full of soy milk next to him at all.
[00:18:05.520 --> 00:18:09.040] That's a couple of big gulps full of soy milk, right?
[00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:13.200] So this is like entirely anecdotal, right?
[00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:16.080] We're just talking about this one guy.
[00:18:16.080 --> 00:18:25.600] And then the piece drops into these sweeping alarmist claims about Americans consuming too much soy.
[00:18:25.600 --> 00:18:33.440] Right, because you can probably do a correlation with like, over the last 10 years, soy consumption in America has quintoupled or something, because it probably did by 2009.
[00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:35.600] Yes, I mean, that's essentially what they did.
[00:18:35.600 --> 00:18:45.040] So here's what they have to say: they talk about the AAP recommending cow's milk formula over soy formula in a report in 2008, which is true.
[00:18:45.040 --> 00:18:45.920] They did.
[00:18:46.240 --> 00:18:50.320] They note that 35% of bottle-fed babies in the U.S.
[00:18:50.320 --> 00:18:54.880] at the time received at least some of their protein from soy.
[00:18:54.880 --> 00:18:55.280] Okay.
[00:18:55.280 --> 00:18:58.320] They go on, this is more maintenance phase catnip.
[00:18:58.320 --> 00:19:01.280] This is a quote from the actual piece.
[00:19:01.280 --> 00:19:14.000] Okay, it says: a 2001 study in the Journal of the American Medical Association surveyed over 800 adults ages 20 to 34 who were fed either soy-based or cow's milk formulas during their infancy.
[00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:22.720] One of the few differences to emerge, was that the group raised on soy formula regularly used more asthma and allergy medications in adulthood.
[00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:24.960] Was this just a quirk of the sampling?
[00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:29.200] Or could it represent a subtle impairment of immune function?
[00:19:29.520 --> 00:19:29.760] What?
[00:19:30.200 --> 00:19:30.520] Right.
[00:19:30.520 --> 00:19:34.680] This is false because we know that the immune function is related to the mercury that they're getting in the vaccines.
[00:19:34.680 --> 00:19:35.000] Uh-huh.
[00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:35.320] Correct.
[00:19:35.560 --> 00:19:36.040] It's the music.
[00:19:36.280 --> 00:19:51.000] And also, like, serving an existing group of people who have allergies and are eating foods that are more common in allergy-friendly spaces feels like, yeah, no shit.
[00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:57.240] If you take allergy meds, you might be more tuned in to your own personal sort of like health and well-being.
[00:19:57.240 --> 00:20:00.360] You might be more likely to gravitate toward like health foods.
[00:20:00.360 --> 00:20:01.240] You might, you know what I mean?
[00:20:01.240 --> 00:20:03.800] Like, there's so much going on here.
[00:20:03.800 --> 00:20:09.640] And instead, they do this dumb shit, like, heavy lifting question.
[00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:19.160] This is very similar to the moving of the goalpost thing among anti-vaxxers where it's like, it's this vaccine, it's this other vaccine, it's autism, no, it's everything, no, it's allergies.
[00:20:19.160 --> 00:20:30.760] Where it's like, okay, if people are consuming more estrogen and it's causing this guy's very specific condition, that's one thing, but then we have a completely different narrative here where it's like asthma and allergies.
[00:20:30.760 --> 00:20:31.000] Right.
[00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:35.160] But those are all like different biological mechanisms by which it would be affecting you.
[00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:40.920] I feel like there's this idea that foods are just like good for you or bad for you.
[00:20:40.920 --> 00:20:45.000] And like anything bad that happens, people are like, oh, it's his food.
[00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:45.160] Right.
[00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:58.280] So like it does it again with there is a piece where they sort of like cite a couple of papers suggesting that one component of soy is linked to erectile dysfunction in animals.
[00:20:58.280 --> 00:21:02.120] And then they do a whole thing being like, what if it's true in people too?
[00:21:03.080 --> 00:21:04.360] Chill the fuck out.
[00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:07.640] This is an article that's not ready to be written yet.
[00:21:07.640 --> 00:21:07.880] Right.
[00:21:07.880 --> 00:21:11.800] There's just not enough evidence here to say anything for sure.
[00:21:12.120 --> 00:21:16.080] But instead, they turn in this, like, I'm just asking questions kind of draft.
[00:21:14.920 --> 00:21:20.720] We're all eating soybeans, and now the mice can't even get boners anymore.
[00:21:21.040 --> 00:21:22.800] Nobody wants to talk about it.
[00:21:23.040 --> 00:21:30.400] No, but this is, I feel like there's like a fundamental kind of mismatch here in that I think that it is good to do studies on like random shit.
[00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:42.160] Like, I don't really mind these kinds of studies being done, but I think that one of the fundamental challenges of like the information age is that because everybody has access to so much information, like it's very easy to look up academic journals.
[00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:48.480] You can easily take these super preliminary studies and be like, we're all growing boobs because of the soybeans.
[00:21:48.800 --> 00:21:54.320] But like, I don't want to like throw the scientific baby out with the bathwater here.
[00:21:54.320 --> 00:21:56.560] I think doing like animal studies is fine.
[00:21:56.560 --> 00:22:05.360] It's just that they get interpreted and like spread around like our bad information environment in this like really obnoxious way.
[00:22:05.360 --> 00:22:06.880] Yeah, totally.
[00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:13.280] So it is true that soy contains something called phytoestrogens.
[00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:21.280] Phytoestrogens exist in plants, but they have some chemical similarities to the estrogen that is produced by humans.
[00:22:21.280 --> 00:22:25.840] They're similar to estrogen, but they are not human estrogen.
[00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:36.880] And also, even when we are talking about like straight up human estrogen, despite you know, we sort of characterize estrogen as like a women's hormone or something, right?
[00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:40.640] But people of all sexes and genders produce estrogen.
[00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:40.880] Right.
[00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:43.360] So like you produce estrogen, I produce estrogens.
[00:22:43.360 --> 00:22:45.040] I also produce testosterone.
[00:22:45.040 --> 00:22:46.800] We just have them in different balances.
[00:22:46.800 --> 00:22:47.040] Right.
[00:22:47.040 --> 00:22:54.800] Phytoestrogens are named phytoestrogens because they are chemically similar, but decidedly sort of not identical.
[00:22:54.800 --> 00:22:56.480] Phyto just means plant.
[00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:01.480] And when humans eat phytoestrogens, they are metabolized differently.
[00:22:59.920 --> 00:23:03.240] They are put to work differently.
[00:23:03.560 --> 00:23:06.280] Like it all sort of works differently, right?
[00:23:06.280 --> 00:23:09.880] When you eat phytoestrogens versus when your body produces estrogen.
[00:23:09.880 --> 00:23:15.160] It really feels like these people are just like going through Wikipedia and looking for any excuse.
[00:23:15.160 --> 00:23:17.000] And they're like, ooh, phytoestrogen.
[00:23:17.240 --> 00:23:18.920] It has the word estrogen in it.
[00:23:18.920 --> 00:23:19.080] Right.
[00:23:19.080 --> 00:23:23.160] It's like, do you have any actual knowledge of this substance or how it works?
[00:23:23.160 --> 00:23:24.200] It's like, da-da-da-da.
[00:23:24.440 --> 00:23:25.800] It has estrogen in it.
[00:23:25.800 --> 00:23:29.640] So that men's health piece comes out in 2009.
[00:23:29.640 --> 00:23:50.440] In 2010, we get two big research reviews, two big meta-analyses that show no compelling evidence that a soy-rich diet impacts testosterone levels, sperm counts, or anything else to do with cis men's health, right?
[00:23:50.440 --> 00:23:52.520] Maybe you're just a pussy because you're a pussy, Todd.
[00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:53.640] Not because this pussy is.
[00:23:54.600 --> 00:24:01.400] This is very similar to the Mercury and vaccine stuff, where it's just like, yeah, if this was true, we would fucking know it.
[00:24:01.400 --> 00:24:03.080] And it would be super obvious.
[00:24:03.400 --> 00:24:03.720] Yeah.
[00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:09.320] There's vast differences between populations and like how much soy they're eating.
[00:24:09.640 --> 00:24:12.200] Like it would be really fucking easy to measure.
[00:24:12.200 --> 00:24:16.840] So men's health sort of unwittingly plants sort of a seed.
[00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:23.560] And by 2015, we get what becomes, frankly, a real modern classic of the internet.
[00:24:23.560 --> 00:24:23.960] Oh.
[00:24:23.960 --> 00:24:24.840] I sent you a link.
[00:24:24.840 --> 00:24:25.320] I'm afraid.
[00:24:25.560 --> 00:24:27.160] This is what we will be watching.
[00:24:27.160 --> 00:24:28.120] Oh, this shit.
[00:24:28.520 --> 00:24:29.960] I've seen this, Aubrey.
[00:24:29.960 --> 00:24:31.400] I've seen this so many times.
[00:24:32.200 --> 00:24:33.400] See it again.
[00:24:33.640 --> 00:24:34.840] I love this shit.
[00:24:34.840 --> 00:24:35.320] Okay.
[00:24:35.640 --> 00:24:41.480] This is the title is Alex Jones Gay Bomb Rant.
[00:24:41.440 --> 00:24:42.120] All right, we're doing?
[00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:47.600] Let's not do 1.5 because I feel like we want, we want to really let it breathe experience.
[00:24:47.600 --> 00:24:48.320] You know?
[00:24:44.360 --> 00:24:50.560] Okay.
[00:24:50.800 --> 00:24:55.440] Yeah, this is when you become like a garbage clip somalier.
[00:24:56.720 --> 00:24:58.160] By the way, they didn't just test it.
[00:24:58.160 --> 00:24:59.840] They sprayed them with gay bombs.
[00:24:59.840 --> 00:25:03.680] If you're a new listener, just type in radio tested gay bomb on our business.
[00:25:03.760 --> 00:25:05.680] They considered, no, they didn't consider using it.
[00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:07.120] They've used it on our troops.
[00:25:07.120 --> 00:25:10.480] In Vietnam, they'd spray PCP on the troops, Jacob's Ladder.
[00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:11.200] Jacob's Ladder.
[00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:15.200] You think PCP, some horse tranquilizer, something?
[00:25:15.360 --> 00:25:18.800] They got stuff that'll whack your brain permanently.
[00:25:18.800 --> 00:25:25.120] They give the troops special vaccines that are really nanotech that already re-engineer their brains.
[00:25:25.120 --> 00:25:26.640] I mean, he cuts to Wikipedia.
[00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:28.640] Yeah, there it is, the gay bomb.
[00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:30.000] Look it up for yourself.
[00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:30.960] I mean, this is what they're.
[00:25:31.120 --> 00:25:32.560] What do you think tap water is?
[00:25:32.560 --> 00:25:34.080] It's a gay bomb, baby.
[00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:37.680] And I'm not saying people didn't naturally have homosexual feelings.
[00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:39.600] I'm not even getting into it, quite frankly.
[00:25:39.600 --> 00:25:40.480] I mean, give me a break.
[00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:41.120] Let's be responsible.
[00:25:41.360 --> 00:25:46.160] You think I am like shocked by it, so I'm up here bashing it because I don't like gay people.
[00:25:46.160 --> 00:25:50.720] I don't like them putting chemicals in the water that turn the friggin' frogs gay.
[00:25:51.040 --> 00:25:52.400] Do you understand that?
[00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:53.440] He's clarifying his views.
[00:25:55.520 --> 00:25:57.200] I'm sick of being social engineer.
[00:25:57.200 --> 00:25:58.320] It's not funny.
[00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:00.960] Okay.
[00:26:02.080 --> 00:26:03.600] I just dropped a bunch of stuff off the side of here.
[00:26:03.600 --> 00:26:04.160] I need those articles.
[00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:05.760] I can do that now because I have a mic.
[00:26:05.920 --> 00:26:07.120] I apologize to the family audience.
[00:26:07.120 --> 00:26:07.920] I'm going to settle down.
[00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:11.760] I haven't done this in months, and I'm just, I just cannot handle it anymore.
[00:26:11.760 --> 00:26:12.640] I apologize.
[00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:13.440] I apologize.
[00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:14.720] Jesus, forgive me.
[00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:17.520] Let me just get back to the news.
[00:26:17.520 --> 00:26:18.560] Thank you.
[00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:22.640] Children becoming hunchbacks due to addiction to smartphones.
[00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:23.840] Again.
[00:26:24.640 --> 00:26:25.600] Sounds real.
[00:26:25.600 --> 00:26:26.920] That's all he could stuff.
[00:26:28.720 --> 00:26:33.560] Michael, the amount of restraint it took me to not play the entire 11-minute video.
[00:26:29.920 --> 00:26:35.400] I know, I kind of want to keep going.
[00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:41.160] So, hang on, I have to collect myself.
[00:26:41.160 --> 00:26:43.640] I have watched this so many times.
[00:26:43.640 --> 00:26:49.000] I was about to make fun of him for like working himself up into a lather and being like, I can't do this anymore.
[00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:50.920] And then I remembered what we do for a living.
[00:26:50.920 --> 00:26:51.720] That's our whole thing.
[00:26:51.880 --> 00:26:53.000] That's the whole thing.
[00:26:53.320 --> 00:26:56.760] We live in a glass house of I'm not going to do this anymore.
[00:26:56.760 --> 00:27:01.320] Yeah, who can say that they're better than the gay bomb guy?
[00:27:01.640 --> 00:27:15.720] So, the lead-in to this and the lead-out of this little segment is him genuinely just like leafing through pages of stapled packets of printed-out internet news stories.
[00:27:15.720 --> 00:27:16.760] It's so fucking funny.
[00:27:16.760 --> 00:27:23.320] They're like all the papers on his desk, which makes it seem sort of like, oh, he's going through and like reading the studies and stuff.
[00:27:23.320 --> 00:27:27.800] They're like, This man has not read like a complete sentence in his entire life.
[00:27:27.960 --> 00:27:34.040] No, and also, like, an intern printed out 100% of these, and he's literally reading off headlines.
[00:27:34.040 --> 00:27:38.200] Also, wait, I need to go to the gay bomb wiki entry.
[00:27:38.200 --> 00:27:40.600] Michael, this was exactly the thing we were just gonna do.
[00:27:40.600 --> 00:27:41.560] Don't even go to the wiki.
[00:27:42.360 --> 00:27:43.160] Okay, okay.
[00:27:43.160 --> 00:27:44.680] Don't even go to the wiki entry.
[00:27:44.680 --> 00:27:47.800] I'm gonna tell you the timestamp.
[00:27:47.800 --> 00:27:56.040] So, you're gonna just keep your thing on pause and take yourself to 528-ish, somewhere in that neighborhood.
[00:27:56.040 --> 00:27:56.520] Okay.
[00:27:56.520 --> 00:27:59.640] And then we're just gonna go full screen.
[00:27:59.640 --> 00:28:00.200] Okay.
[00:28:00.200 --> 00:28:02.280] What does that full screen say, Mike?
[00:28:02.280 --> 00:28:08.120] It says sources remain unclear, and it has insufficient citations.
[00:28:08.120 --> 00:28:08.840] Oh, yeah.
[00:28:08.840 --> 00:28:18.800] And then it says, the halitosis bomb and gay bomb are informal names for two theoretical non-lethal chemical weapons that a U.S.
[00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:23.840] Air Force research laboratory speculated about producing.
[00:28:23.840 --> 00:28:32.480] So if you pause the show that you're watching when you're watching Alex Jones, it fully debunks itself.
[00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:44.960] It's also very funny to me because even if you could produce this bomb, it's not like homosexuality just turns you into this like rapacious sex wanter immediately.
[00:28:44.960 --> 00:28:56.000] Like if I was like in my house and like cutting vegetables and all of a sudden like some vapor came in the room that made me straight, I would just keep cutting vegetables like my life wouldn't immediately change.
[00:28:56.000 --> 00:29:00.720] You wouldn't flip over your cutting board and just like tear into some raw beef.
[00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:07.280] This only works if you think that gay people are like driven mad immediately like by their gayness.
[00:29:07.600 --> 00:29:21.840] So Alex Jones actually doesn't specifically mention soy in this clip, but I think it's a really good indicator of sort of where the right is at on again this perceived threat to white masculinity, right?
[00:29:22.080 --> 00:29:34.160] That this whole thing is about like they're turning frogs gay and there's the gay bomb and all of this sort of stuff is really sort of softening the ground for this for this soy panic stuff.
[00:29:34.160 --> 00:29:43.680] So I guess what we've got so far is like the men's health article and the Alex Jones clip are basically two ends of the spectrum of the same concept, right?
[00:29:43.680 --> 00:29:48.400] It's like the men's health one is like the most respectable form of the idea.
[00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:51.120] They're like, oh, the science sayswers that phytoestrogens, blah, blah, blah.
[00:29:51.680 --> 00:30:00.000] And then Alex Jones is a completely out in outer space version of it that is just like, you're drinking chemicals and now you're gay sort of thing.
[00:30:00.440 --> 00:30:10.920] But basically, there's a wide spectrum of ideology that is getting this message that like there is some threat to masculinity and it's like through the form of food.
[00:30:10.920 --> 00:30:11.880] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:19.000] Like part of what we're seeing here is that depending on what you ingest, you could become a gay frog.
[00:30:19.320 --> 00:30:21.560] You could grow breasts.
[00:30:21.560 --> 00:30:21.960] Right?
[00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:22.440] Yeah.
[00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:30.920] All of this stuff is sort of getting reached for through this particular portal of like it's about things that you ingest.
[00:30:30.920 --> 00:30:39.960] It's also very interesting to me that it's like it's turning the frogs gay and that's a threat to masculinity when like you can be gay and masculine.
[00:30:39.960 --> 00:30:40.200] Right.
[00:30:40.280 --> 00:30:42.760] Like my grinder profile says mask for mask.
[00:30:42.760 --> 00:30:43.160] No.
[00:30:43.480 --> 00:30:46.840] It's a very important value for me, as everyone knows.
[00:30:46.840 --> 00:30:51.080] So that Alex Jones freak out is in 2015.
[00:30:51.400 --> 00:30:59.160] And again, like all of these things are doing just little things and little things and little things to sort of ratchet this conversation up.
[00:30:59.800 --> 00:31:05.960] It's not until 2017 that we get the emergence of Soy Boy as like an insult, right?
[00:31:05.960 --> 00:31:06.440] Oh.
[00:31:06.440 --> 00:31:13.000] The history of who first used Soy Boy as a pejorative is disputed.
[00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:13.240] Okay.
[00:31:13.240 --> 00:31:21.880] There are some folks who say that the first appearance was a 4chan comment of someone just calling someone else a soy boy cuckold.
[00:31:21.880 --> 00:31:22.280] Okay.
[00:31:22.280 --> 00:31:25.880] Some folks claim it was Mike Cernovich.
[00:31:26.200 --> 00:31:27.640] Do you know Mike Cernovich?
[00:31:27.640 --> 00:31:28.760] He's just like a far-right guy.
[00:31:28.760 --> 00:31:30.520] Wasn't he the Pizzagate guy?
[00:31:30.520 --> 00:31:31.800] Yeah, he's a blogger.
[00:31:31.800 --> 00:31:32.920] He's a far-right dude.
[00:31:32.920 --> 00:31:35.400] He's big in the manosphere.
[00:31:35.720 --> 00:31:43.400] His sort of claim or the thing that he's credited with in all of this is posting the following image.
[00:31:43.400 --> 00:31:44.720] I don't know, you're going to show it to me.
[00:31:44.440 --> 00:31:45.760] I'm showing it to you.
[00:31:44.600 --> 00:31:49.680] I'm sorry the image quality is so tiny and small.
[00:31:49.680 --> 00:31:50.080] Okay.
[00:31:44.920 --> 00:31:51.360] Oh my fucking god.
[00:31:52.480 --> 00:32:03.760] So it's an image meme of like a bunch of dudes in suits and he superimposed a bunch of those like pussy hats from the women's march on top of them.
[00:32:03.760 --> 00:32:08.160] And then the header says the soy boys.
[00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:11.360] And then it says under that soy boy.
[00:32:11.360 --> 00:32:17.920] Slang used to describe males who completely and utterly lack all necessary masculine qualities.
[00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:26.560] This pathetic state is usually achieved by an overindulgence of emasculating products and/or ideologies.
[00:32:26.560 --> 00:32:30.400] Oh, so products like tofu and SJW podcasts.
[00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:38.400] Mike, I feel like you've missed a critical part of the sort of text of this image, and that might be down to the low resolution.
[00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:51.760] Those people are Stephen Colbert, Conan O'Brien, James Corden, Jimmy Kimmel, John Oliver, Seth Myers, Jimmy Fallon, Bill Maher, Larry Wilmore, and Trevor Noah.
[00:32:51.760 --> 00:32:53.440] Well, Bill Maher's kind of a soy boy.
[00:32:54.480 --> 00:32:56.080] But everybody else, that's mean.
[00:32:56.080 --> 00:32:58.640] So it's like a picture of late-night show hosts.
[00:32:58.800 --> 00:32:59.600] So why is this?
[00:32:59.600 --> 00:33:01.440] Why is this what they're mad at?
[00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:04.640] I tried to find the source tweet, but it's been deleted.
[00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:06.480] So I don't know.
[00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:18.720] Regardless of which one of these absolute fucking gremlins started it, this is the year 2017 that the concept of the soy boy sort of took off online.
[00:33:18.720 --> 00:33:26.400] There's a far-right YouTuber who releases a video called The Truth About Soy Face, and it just gets tons and tons of views.
[00:33:26.400 --> 00:33:28.880] That YouTuber is named Paul Joseph Watson.
[00:33:29.520 --> 00:33:31.400] I knew he was going to be in there.
[00:33:32.840 --> 00:33:36.520] Tell me what you know about Paul Joseph Watson because I didn't know shit about shit.
[00:33:36.520 --> 00:33:38.440] He's, I don't, is it a real accent?
[00:33:38.440 --> 00:33:39.720] He's British, I think.
[00:33:39.720 --> 00:33:40.920] He's from Sheffield.
[00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:42.520] Wasn't he on Alex Jones' show?
[00:33:42.520 --> 00:33:43.960] Wasn't he an Infowars guy?
[00:33:43.960 --> 00:33:49.480] He was like a little, he was a little like karate kid to like Alex Jones's Mr.
[00:33:49.480 --> 00:33:50.200] Miyagi.
[00:33:50.520 --> 00:33:56.760] He was an InfoWars employee for a very long time, starting in 2002.
[00:33:56.760 --> 00:34:01.240] Employee, imagine filling out your W-2 with like InfoWars LLC.
[00:34:01.480 --> 00:34:04.280] Imagine listing Alex Jones as a reference.
[00:34:08.680 --> 00:34:15.400] The content is all exactly what you would expect from a longtime InfoWars staffer, right?
[00:34:15.400 --> 00:34:20.120] He's got a bunch of conspiracy theories about Islamic takeovers.
[00:34:20.440 --> 00:34:26.280] He's just doing the like explicit proud misogyny, transphobia, racism.
[00:34:26.280 --> 00:34:26.680] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:34:27.080 --> 00:34:36.600] And particularly when it comes to soy, he calls the popularization of soy, quote, a globalist chemical warfare program.
[00:34:36.600 --> 00:34:41.960] For the uninitiated, globalist is used as an anti-Semitic dog whistle, right?
[00:34:41.960 --> 00:34:42.280] Yeah.
[00:34:42.280 --> 00:34:47.880] It is built on the idea for many that the world is run by like a secret cabal of Jewish people.
[00:34:47.880 --> 00:34:55.560] It's also the same thing of like they maintain just enough plausible deniability to be like, well, we never said it was anti-Semitic.
[00:34:55.560 --> 00:34:58.520] It's like the ringtone that only teenagers can hear.
[00:34:58.520 --> 00:34:58.920] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:34:59.320 --> 00:35:03.080] You just say globalist and only racist are like Jewish people.
[00:35:03.080 --> 00:35:03.560] Yeah.
[00:35:03.880 --> 00:35:05.800] So that's 2018.
[00:35:05.800 --> 00:35:11.880] The next stop in our story is a very weird one.
[00:35:11.880 --> 00:35:28.240] It takes us to a trade publication from the plain states in 2019 when a veterinarian publishes a piece in his local trade publication, the Tri-State Livestock News.
[00:35:28.640 --> 00:35:41.360] He wrote a piece focused on the impossible whopper that included the absolute banger of a line, quote, here's to hoping that the impossible whopper is a possible flopper.
[00:35:41.360 --> 00:35:43.120] Oh, God.
[00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:48.480] That's like something we would try as a tagline and be like, ooh, even for you, Mike.
[00:35:50.560 --> 00:35:52.160] I would fire you for that.
[00:35:55.920 --> 00:36:03.120] So the idea behind this piece is that the main ingredient in Impossible Meat and Beyond Meat is soy.
[00:36:03.440 --> 00:36:14.800] So in this piece, he claims that, quote, an impossible whopper has 18 million times as much estrogen as a regular whopper.
[00:36:14.800 --> 00:36:22.960] And he directly says that eating four impossible whoppers per day would, quote, grow boobs on a male.
[00:36:22.960 --> 00:36:23.920] Oh, God.
[00:36:23.920 --> 00:36:28.080] Estrogen, he says 18 million times as much estrogen.
[00:36:28.080 --> 00:36:30.480] There is no estrogen.
[00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:35.360] It's phytoestrogens, which are similar but a different thing.
[00:36:35.360 --> 00:36:36.880] Is he just like making this number up?
[00:36:37.040 --> 00:36:38.160] Where is anybody getting this?
[00:36:38.160 --> 00:36:40.480] He's just pulling this shit out of thin air.
[00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:44.560] And like, listen, this piece went viral.
[00:36:44.560 --> 00:36:45.120] Yeah.
[00:36:45.120 --> 00:36:55.520] This goes so far and wide that at one point this guy gets a call from a reporter at the Atlantic who is like, hey, do you want to say anything about how far and wide this has gone?
[00:36:55.520 --> 00:36:58.640] And he was like, yeah, we published a retraction.
[00:36:58.640 --> 00:37:01.080] I didn't expect this to go that far and wide.
[00:37:01.080 --> 00:37:04.040] I understand now that I'm wrong and I wish I'd never written it.
[00:37:04.040 --> 00:37:07.880] Like, he really goes hard on like, I fucked this up.
[00:37:08.120 --> 00:37:11.480] But that doesn't get, of course, anywhere near as far, right?
[00:37:11.480 --> 00:37:11.960] Yeah.
[00:37:11.960 --> 00:37:23.800] It's not until 2021 that the mainstream mainstream of the GOP really keys into sort of soy panic and the masculinity crisis, right?
[00:37:24.040 --> 00:37:26.520] Wait, how many years from Alex Jones are we?
[00:37:26.520 --> 00:37:29.240] It's like from Alex Jones to like Ted Cruz.
[00:37:29.640 --> 00:37:31.080] Yeah, six years.
[00:37:31.080 --> 00:37:31.800] Six years.
[00:37:31.800 --> 00:37:32.440] Exactly.
[00:37:32.440 --> 00:37:32.840] Exactly.
[00:37:32.840 --> 00:37:33.560] Six years.
[00:37:33.560 --> 00:37:35.880] That's actually a little slower than it usually takes.
[00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:42.040] So 2021 is when Josh Hawley starts talking about masculinity stuff more.
[00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:55.080] This is when JD Vance has his like garbage tweets about Kyle Rittenhouse being like an issue of like broken homes and fathers and abandoning our boys and all of that.
[00:37:55.080 --> 00:38:06.680] In 2021, Jodi Ernst, who's a Republican from Iowa, introduces a bill called the Telling Agencies to Stop Tweaking What Employees Eat Act.
[00:38:06.680 --> 00:38:08.680] Oh, that has to stand for something.
[00:38:08.680 --> 00:38:11.320] Which is the Tasty Act.
[00:38:11.320 --> 00:38:12.280] Oh, God.
[00:38:12.600 --> 00:38:18.280] The Tasty Act would ban meatless Mondays in federal buildings.
[00:38:18.280 --> 00:38:20.440] This is such pussy shit.
[00:38:20.680 --> 00:38:23.160] Stop banning stuff that you don't like.
[00:38:23.160 --> 00:38:25.640] It's so bizarre to me.
[00:38:25.640 --> 00:38:28.680] It's turning me into one of these fucking men's rights guys.
[00:38:28.680 --> 00:38:33.400] I'm like, this is the pussification of America is men fucking moaning about shit like this.
[00:38:34.920 --> 00:38:45.040] This narrative really reaches a crescendo actually last year when Tucker Carlson released a documentary called The End of Men.
[00:38:45.040 --> 00:38:47.760] The Red Ball, the Red Ball Obelisk documentary.
[00:38:44.840 --> 00:38:48.400] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:52.560] The Red Light scrotum tanning.
[00:38:52.560 --> 00:38:55.920] Which we both refused to Google because we're like, oh my God, we're not going to spend time on this.
[00:38:55.920 --> 00:38:57.280] But then I did spend time on it.
[00:38:57.280 --> 00:38:58.080] I watched it.
[00:38:58.080 --> 00:38:59.200] I watched it a couple of times.
[00:38:59.200 --> 00:39:00.080] My terrible.
[00:39:00.160 --> 00:39:00.720] Jesus Christ.
[00:39:00.720 --> 00:39:09.920] We're not going to go into it here because I want to do a bonus episode on it because every sentence in it is the most bananas nonsense you've ever heard.
[00:39:09.920 --> 00:39:11.360] Rich text.
[00:39:11.360 --> 00:39:13.760] But I did want to share this one portion.
[00:39:13.760 --> 00:39:19.120] It's a quote from someone who calls himself the raw egg nationalist.
[00:39:19.120 --> 00:39:20.080] Oh, what?
[00:39:20.080 --> 00:39:22.960] What are those words in that order?
[00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:24.240] What?
[00:39:25.840 --> 00:39:28.960] I love that you and I are both like, join me.
[00:39:28.960 --> 00:39:29.760] This is gross.
[00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:32.400] God, can we as a society agree on one fucking thing?
[00:39:32.400 --> 00:39:33.760] Raw eggs.
[00:39:34.080 --> 00:39:35.200] Can we all just agree?
[00:39:35.200 --> 00:39:37.280] Don't eat fucking raw eggs, guys.
[00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:39.520] Not if you're talking to the raw egg nationalist.
[00:39:39.520 --> 00:39:40.880] Here, we have one thing.
[00:39:41.200 --> 00:39:42.640] I just sent you a quote.
[00:39:42.640 --> 00:39:51.840] This is something that raw egg nationalist says in this documentary that really sort of encapsulates quite a bit of his message, as far as I can tell.
[00:39:51.840 --> 00:39:53.840] Oh my god, this is such a masterpiece, Aubrey.
[00:39:53.840 --> 00:39:54.640] You're welcome.
[00:39:54.640 --> 00:39:58.880] The enemy today is what I like to call soy globalism.
[00:39:58.880 --> 00:40:12.560] The globalist aim is to destroy nations and global communities, and they do this by isolating communities and sickening them through food and also through so-called medicine and all the chemicals we're exposed to on a daily basis.
[00:40:12.560 --> 00:40:16.960] The globalists want you to be fat, sick, depressed, and isolated.
[00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:23.040] The better to control you and milk you for as much economic value as they can before they kill you.
[00:40:23.040 --> 00:40:26.880] By making an individual strong, you make a nation strong.
[00:40:26.880 --> 00:40:34.600] It's wild that it is like such deep, fringe, horrifying conspiracy theories.
[00:40:34.920 --> 00:40:37.880] And this aired on Fox News.
[00:40:37.880 --> 00:40:40.680] Yeah, like a normal mainstream quote.
[00:40:40.920 --> 00:40:44.920] This is shit that is on TV and a lot of people are watching it.
[00:40:44.920 --> 00:40:46.680] It's also, it's so disingenuous too.
[00:40:46.760 --> 00:40:50.440] He says, like, they want to milk you for as much economic value as they can.
[00:40:50.440 --> 00:40:50.920] Okay, great.
[00:40:50.920 --> 00:40:53.160] So you support a higher minimum wage then, right?
[00:40:53.160 --> 00:40:53.480] No.
[00:40:53.480 --> 00:40:53.880] Yeah.
[00:40:53.960 --> 00:40:55.160] You support unions, right?
[00:40:55.160 --> 00:40:55.640] No.
[00:40:56.280 --> 00:40:56.920] So what are we?
[00:40:57.000 --> 00:41:01.160] It's like they use these arguments, but they don't actually believe any of this shit, right?
[00:41:01.160 --> 00:41:09.480] They're just preying on people who are like low information enough that they don't know the actual ideology behind this stuff because none of these people are going to make your life any better.
[00:41:09.480 --> 00:41:21.480] Yeah, I mean, it's also wild to just think through all of this and be like, man, there are so many legit things to worry about with cis men's health, but none of them are this.
[00:41:21.800 --> 00:41:23.560] Get your prostate checked.
[00:41:23.560 --> 00:41:24.840] Get your regular screenings.
[00:41:24.840 --> 00:41:26.360] Get your prostate checked.
[00:41:26.680 --> 00:41:28.280] Get your fucking vaccines.
[00:41:28.280 --> 00:41:29.640] Get your shingles vaccines.
[00:41:29.640 --> 00:41:31.400] Like, go to the doctor regularly.
[00:41:31.400 --> 00:41:31.640] Right?
[00:41:31.640 --> 00:41:36.760] Like, there's like a bunch of stuff that we could actually actively be working on with cis dudes.
[00:41:36.760 --> 00:41:43.640] Also, yeah, I feel like the biggest thing with cis dudes these days is like depression and loneliness and like suicides and like potentially drug overdoses.
[00:41:43.640 --> 00:41:52.440] It's like, yeah, there's real problems that I think are like absolutely worth taking seriously, but like to take them seriously, you have to talk about the actual problem.
[00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:55.880] So now we're in this place where sort of the cat's out of the bag, right?
[00:41:55.880 --> 00:42:03.800] Like, I think we're at a point now where it is kind of threatening to tip from a far-right idea to a center-right idea.
[00:42:03.800 --> 00:42:10.840] That's already happened, but from a center-right idea back to being sort of a mainstream myth about health.
[00:42:10.840 --> 00:42:13.240] And that part makes me nervous.
[00:42:13.240 --> 00:42:21.040] Also, it's so, it's weirdly important to these like man gurus or something that like masculinity has to be under attack all the time.
[00:42:21.280 --> 00:42:30.640] They have this like strange conception where it's like masculinity is like this all-powerful thing, but also like it can crumble down at the slightest poke.
[00:42:30.640 --> 00:42:42.160] This sort of like masculinity under attack, the war on Christmas, all of that shit, is a way of being like, I'm actually just defending myself, and you're the one who's attacking me.
[00:42:42.160 --> 00:42:42.640] Right, right.
[00:42:42.640 --> 00:42:43.680] This is self-defense.
[00:42:43.680 --> 00:42:47.680] So, like, it allows people to do this weird Jedi mind trick with themselves, right?
[00:42:47.680 --> 00:42:50.160] Because it's also, it's like, yeah, if you don't want to eat tofu, don't eat tofu.
[00:42:50.160 --> 00:42:50.960] Not everybody likes tofu.
[00:42:50.960 --> 00:42:51.360] It's totally fine.
[00:42:51.360 --> 00:42:53.120] If you don't want to go see Barbie, don't go see Barbie.
[00:42:53.120 --> 00:42:54.240] It's not like, it's fine.
[00:42:54.240 --> 00:42:55.040] Nobody gives a shit.
[00:42:55.040 --> 00:42:59.600] It's like the weird, there's something so fucking insecure about all of this stuff.
[00:42:59.600 --> 00:43:05.280] And like, I don't want to call these people like soy beta cucks because that's like problematic to like invoke.
[00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:05.520] Yeah.
[00:43:05.520 --> 00:43:08.800] But it is like by their own fucking standards of masculinity.
[00:43:08.800 --> 00:43:10.720] This is not alpha behavior.
[00:43:10.720 --> 00:43:12.720] This is some real beta bullshit.
[00:43:12.720 --> 00:43:14.320] It's some beta bullshit, dude.
[00:43:14.320 --> 00:43:18.800] Take it from a five foot six podcaster with huge hands.
[00:43:18.800 --> 00:43:23.440] Take it from the leftist podcaster who's gay that you've been dying.
[00:43:23.760 --> 00:43:25.760] SJW podcaster.
[00:43:26.560 --> 00:43:30.480] His purple punnel does not allow him to get in fights, but still.