Shawn Ryan Show

#247 Brandon Tseng – Shield AI’s X-BAT: The First AI Fighter Jet to Outsmart Top Gun

October 23, 2025

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  • Brandon Tseng, co-founder and president of Shield AI, is a former Navy SEAL whose battlefield experiences directly informed his vision for building AI systems to protect warfighters. 
  • Shield AI's initial product, an AI-piloted quadcopter for autonomous building clearing, has been widely deployed in conflicts including Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Ukraine. 
  • Tseng's motivation for founding Shield AI stemmed from the belief that AI and autonomy will be the most strategic conventional deterrent of the 21st century, aiming to solve the 'problem of warfare' by leading U.S. development in this area. 
  • Shield AI's initial success came from developing an autonomous quadcopter pilot for building clearing, which was widely deployed to conflict zones like Syria, Iraq, Israel, and Ukraine. 
  • The core of Shield AI's autonomy stack relies on software modules for state estimation, mapping, reasoning, and path planning, enabling operation without GPS by building internal maps. 
  • The X-BAT is Shield AI's next transformative hardware product: an AI-piloted, vertical takeoff, launch, and land (VTOL) combat strike jet with a 2,100 nautical mile range, designed to create dilemmas for adversaries by enabling distributed, long-range fires from any location. 
  • The X-BAT's multi-plane thrust vectoring capability allows it to operate from virtually any location, effectively turning every surface into a potential runway, which fundamentally redefines air warfare logistics. 
  • The V-BAT, powered by Shield AI's HiveMind AI pilot, has proven its resilience in Ukraine by successfully executing missions while operating under heavy GPS and communications jamming, a capability unmatched by other U.S. systems in those environments. 
  • The X-BAT is anticipated to be as transformational to future military force structure as the introduction of aircraft carriers was before World War II, augmenting human pilots initially before potentially replacing certain systems down the line. 

Segments

Sponsor Reads and Guest Welcome
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(00:00:01)
  • Key Takeaway: The podcast opens with advertisements for Blink Mini 2K Plus cameras and Tito’s Handmade Vodka before formally welcoming Brandon Tseng.
  • Summary: The initial segment is dedicated to sponsor messages, including promotions for a security camera and a brand of vodka. Following the ads, Shawn Ryan welcomes Brandon Tseng to The Shawn Ryan Show, noting the presence of a model UAP in the yard.
Guest Background and Inspiration
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(00:01:31)
  • Key Takeaway: Tseng’s motivation for founding Shield AI is rooted in his desire to create something significant outside of the military, inspired by seeing other veterans succeed in new ventures.
  • Summary: Ryan expresses admiration for veterans, particularly SEALs, who transition into entrepreneurship. Tseng acknowledges the difficulty of the journey but expresses excitement about making a global impact. Ryan then provides a detailed introduction covering Tseng’s role at Shield AI, his military background, and his advocacy work.
Gift Exchange and V-BAT Operations
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(00:03:42)
  • Key Takeaway: Shield AI’s V-BAT aircraft recently became operational with the U.S. Coast Guard, interdicting over half a billion dollars worth of cocaine in the Caribbean Sea within two weeks.
  • Summary: The hosts exchange gifts, including gummy bears and a SIG Sauer pistol for Ryan, and steak knives and an HK MP5 replica for Tseng. The conversation immediately pivots to mission impact, where Tseng reveals the V-BAT’s success in counter-drug operations, involving the destruction of several vessels.
Battlefield Experience Shaping AI Vision
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(00:09:55)
  • Key Takeaway: Tseng’s first deployment augmenting SEAL Team 6 provided a ‘masterclass in ISR and targeting operations,’ which directly informed his understanding of the kill chain necessary for building autonomous systems.
  • Summary: Responding to a listener question, Tseng details his first deployment experience, which occurred one year after the Bin Laden raid. He served as a junior officer coordinating kinetic strikes and observing direct action missions, gaining intimate knowledge of the intelligence-surveillance-reconnaissance (ISR) to effects process.
Early Life and Family Background
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(00:12:22)
  • Key Takeaway: Tseng grew up moving between Houston, Seattle, and Florida, and his family background includes military service spanning World War II and a strong emphasis on education and hard work.
  • Summary: Tseng shares that he grew up primarily in Seattle and finished high school in Florida, with his father working in corporate engineering and construction. He was heavily influenced by his parents’ push for high academic achievement and his family’s history of military service, including a grandfather who fought in WWII China.
Path to Naval Academy and SEALs
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(00:15:13)
  • Key Takeaway: The dream of becoming a Navy SEAL started at age 10 after watching movies like Under Siege, leading him to apply to the Naval Academy to keep the goal alive.
  • Summary: Tseng’s interest in the SEALs was sparked by action movies, and his parents directed him toward the Naval Academy when the interest proved persistent. He attended Summer Seminar and successfully gained admission, maintaining his SEAL aspiration throughout his time there.
Naval Academy Experience and Disappointment
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(00:21:44)
  • Key Takeaway: Despite excelling in swimming, Tseng struggled with the tread portion of the SEAL screener, ultimately being denied a SEAL billet directly out of the Naval Academy, which he described as the most soul-crushing day of his life up to that point.
  • Summary: Tseng compares the tight bonds of Naval Academy and Harvard Business School alumni networks to the less formal support structure of the SEAL community. He recounts the rigorous SEAL screener and the devastation of not receiving a billet, which led him to commit to excelling in his assigned Surface Warfare Officer role to avoid future rejection.
Buds Training and Hell Week Recollections
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(00:31:58)
  • Key Takeaway: Tseng loved the ruthlessness and humor of Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL (BUD/S) training, noting that his biggest hangup was treading water with fins, which took four attempts, resulting in 1,008 counts as a penalty.
  • Summary: After lateral transfer into the teams, Tseng found BUD/S to be exactly where he wanted to be, contrasting it favorably with his time in the fleet. He vividly recalls Camp Surf during Hell Week as the worst evolution due to the constant, painful shock of hitting the cold surf while soaked and chafed.
SEAL Team Service and Transition
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(00:38:41)
  • Key Takeaway: Upon graduating SQT, Tseng checked into SEAL Team 7 and was immediately deployed, experiencing significant loss early in his career, including a classmate’s brother dying in the Extortion 17 helicopter crash.
  • Summary: Graduating felt like the start of real work, not the end of training, as the expectation shifted toward combat readiness. Tseng deployed to Afghanistan in 2015, augmenting a troop that had conducted the Bin Laden raid, which provided a high benchmark for operational tempo.
Reasons for Leaving Military Service
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(00:52:00)
  • Key Takeaway: Tseng chose to leave the Navy because he aspired to do something entrepreneurial outside the military structure and did not aspire to the traditional officer career path of commanding a SEAL team.
  • Summary: He sought to explore what could be accomplished outside the military system, noting that while he valued the accountability gained young, he was not interested in the subsequent command track for officers. He had already been planning his next move, considering venture capital and private equity while deployed.
Founding Shield AI and Initial Focus
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(00:53:35)
  • Key Takeaway: Inspired by entrepreneurs like Elon Musk and recognizing AI/autonomy as the next major technological wave, Tseng co-founded Shield AI to solve critical national security problems, starting with autonomous building clearing.
  • Summary: Tseng decided to focus on entrepreneurship in AI/autonomy because he saw it as the next transformative industry, similar to the internet wave. He chose to tackle warfare as a massive, unsolved problem, believing that swarms of autonomous systems are the key to 21st-century deterrence.
Origin of Shield AI’s Vision
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(01:03:49)
  • Key Takeaway: Brandon Tseng’s founding vision for Shield AI in 2015 was for AI and autonomy to power every military asset by 2035.
  • Summary: The initial focus was solving the familiar problem of clearing buildings of threats using an AI-piloted quadcopter. This first product was widely deployed to Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel, and Ukraine. The company recognized the small market size of military quadcopters and subsequently climbed the aviation food chain to larger platforms.
SEAL Team Product Validation
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(01:07:18)
  • Key Takeaway: The quadcopter product was validated in a 2017 ‘John Henry test’ where it solved a house clearing problem faster than a SEAL squad, proving its value despite early flaws. Feedback from the field was crucial, leading to rapid bug fixes and deployment on high-stakes missions. The need to scale beyond the small SOF market necessitated expanding product focus.
  • Summary: None
Quadcopter Failures and Limitations
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(01:12:43)
  • Key Takeaway: Early quadcopter failures were primarily caused by LIDAR reflections from dust in desert environments and control challenges when flying in close proximity to walls in tight spaces. The product was used successfully in deliberate call-out operations to verify building clearance before personnel entry. The company pivoted away from the small quadcopter market to focus on more strategic platforms.
  • Summary: None
Strategic Platform Expansion
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(01:15:25)
  • Key Takeaway: Shield AI acquired Martin UAV (V-BAT) and Heron Systems (fighter jet autonomy) in 2021 to move onto strategic platforms and demonstrate software portability. The AI pilot architecture was designed from the start to be transferable across platforms, reducing integration time significantly over time. The company has since integrated its AI pilot onto 15 different platforms, including the F-16.
  • Summary: None
Autonomy Stack Mechanics
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(01:17:11)
  • Key Takeaway: Autonomous systems operate via software modules including state estimation, mapping, controls, and global reasoning, mimicking human sensory input and decision-making. Reinforcement learning, similar to methods used in AlphaGo, is the principal methodology for teaching these systems by rewarding positive behaviors in millions of simulations. This allows the AI to learn complex missions like dogfighting or clearing rooms without explicit pre-programming for every scenario.
  • Summary: None
Future of Warfare and Mass
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(01:21:36)
  • Key Takeaway: By 2035, warfare will still heavily rely on human-machine teaming, but the long-term vision is robot-on-robot deterrence, reducing human casualties. Autonomy unlocks ’near-infinite, intelligent, maneuverable mass,’ allowing the US to field millions of drone-sized armies, which is the next strategic transformation after air power and stealth technology. China is identified as the key competitor due to its faster iteration cycle time.
  • Summary: None
Speed Over Security Philosophy
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(01:31:55)
  • Key Takeaway: In defense technology, an emphasis on speed and rapid iteration is considered a core security measure, ensuring adversaries are always playing catch-up. While basic security protocols are necessary, moving faster than competitors prevents stolen technology from becoming obsolete before the adversary can fully implement it. This contrasts with traditional security practices that sometimes slow down development.
  • Summary: None
V-BAT Tactical Advantages
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(01:36:08)
  • Key Takeaway: The V-BAT (a Group 3 drone) performs ISR and targeting missions like a Predator/Reaper but at a fraction of the cost, operating effectively where GPS/communications are jammed. Its VTOL capability eliminates reliance on vulnerable, high-value runways, allowing deployment from mobile assets like Sprinter vans on a dynamic battlefield. This mobility counters the adversary’s priority of targeting fixed air infrastructure.
  • Summary: None
X-BAT Strategic Capabilities
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(01:54:47)
  • Key Takeaway: The X-BAT is the first AI-piloted combat strike jet capable of VTOL, offering fifth/sixth-generation capability at a fraction of the cost of platforms like the F-35. Its 2,100 nautical mile range and ability to launch from any small surface allows the US to create dilemmas by distributing long-range fires across the entire battlespace, forcing adversaries to redefine their invasion calculus. The aircraft utilizes multi-plane thrust vectoring, enabling superior maneuverability and high-altitude cruise (55,000 feet) to enhance missile range.
  • Summary: None
XBAT Thrust and Versatility
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(02:10:04)
  • Key Takeaway: XBAT possesses an incredible amount of thrust and multi-plane thrust vectoring, enabling operations where V-BAT faces thrust limitations.
  • Summary: The X-BAT’s thrust capabilities allow it to operate effectively even in conditions where the V-BAT struggles. Its multi-plane thrust vectoring permits precise positioning anywhere required. This capability allows non-standard vessels and island chains to function as aircraft carrier launch points.
AI Swarms and Mission Augmentation
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(02:11:10)
  • Key Takeaway: Shield AI is actively developing multi-agent XBAT behaviors to augment or independently execute missions alongside fighter pilots.
  • Summary: The development focus includes multi-agent behaviors for XBATs flying in coordination. These systems are designed to augment existing fighter pilots or execute missions autonomously. Brandon Tseng views the X-BAT as an inspirational aircraft at the intersection of AI, national security, and jet aircraft development.
V-BAT Ukraine Operational Success
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(02:15:59)
  • Key Takeaway: V-BATs, integrated with the HiveMind AI pilot, successfully passed rigorous electronic warfare testing against seven jammers, proving operational capability in contested Ukrainian environments.
  • Summary: The V-BAT flew over 130 sorties in Ukraine, initially failing when deployed without the integrated AI pilot during jamming events. After integration, the system withstood four days of intense electronic warfare testing, including max-power GPS and communications jamming. This success led to Ukrainian forces using the system lethally since April 2024, finding targets previously inaccessible.
Hacking and Kinetic Defense
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(02:22:58)
  • Key Takeaway: Hacking X-BAT or V-BAT is incredibly difficult due to encryption and proximity requirements, making kinetic engagement the primary method of destruction.
  • Summary: Taking out these systems tactically requires being proximal to the command station and breaking through encryption. The primary way adversaries are taking down V-BATs is kinetically using surface-to-air missile systems. Shield AI accepts the trade of a million-dollar missile for a $750,000 aircraft loss, as the AI-enabled drones survive electronic warfare.
Communication Needs in Autonomy
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(02:24:25)
  • Key Takeaway: While communication is highly beneficial for optimal team performance, autonomous systems can execute commander’s intent without it, relying on compressed data transmission in jammed environments.
  • Summary: Communication allows autonomous systems to operate better together, similar to human fire teams coordinating tactics. In the absence of communications, the system trusts the execution of the commander’s intent. Data is compressed to push low amounts of information through jammed environments, allowing for limited machine-to-machine interaction.
Augmentation vs. Replacement Trajectory
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(02:26:09)
  • Key Takeaway: In the near term, X-BAT will augment existing strike mechanisms like fighter bombers and anti-ship missiles, co-mingling with human pilots before potential long-term replacement occurs.
  • Summary: The term ‘replace’ is avoided for the near future, as adoption takes time, similar to self-driving cars. Early adoption involves augmenting human teams in strike or air-to-air missions. The mission threat environment will dictate whether systems fly independently or as human-machine teams.
Political Support and Manufacturing Goals
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(02:29:58)
  • Key Takeaway: DOD leadership supports the Collaborative Combat Aircraft concept, and Shield AI aims for the X-BAT to become the next generation’s F-16, targeting production of 300 to 500 aircraft annually.
  • Summary: Politicians and senior DOD leadership are enthusiastic about the X-BAT’s ability to eliminate runway constraints and redefine air warfare. Shield AI is funding the majority of development, which presents a challenge for current DOD resourcing plans. The goal is to ramp production to 300-500 aircraft annually after an initial deployment of 50 by 2029.
Future Deterrence and Generational Advice
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(02:34:05)
  • Key Takeaway: The X-BAT’s power projection capability will mirror aircraft carriers, deterring adversaries by demonstrating respected capability, and the next generation should be bold and courageous.
  • Summary: The X-BAT will be used for power projection, similar to how aircraft carriers deter belligerence by parking off a coast. This capability is seen as vital for countries like Taiwan needing equipment adversaries respect for deterrence. Brandon Tseng advises the next generation to be bold, courageous, and swing for the fences in their endeavors.