Shawn Ryan Show

#227 Michael Lester - Are We the Bad Guys?

February 5, 2026

Key Takeaways Copied to clipboard!

  • The current global environment is compared to a 'tinderbox' reminiscent of the period before World War I, suggesting a high state of readiness for major conflict driven by weaponized narratives, markets, and technology. 
  • The erosion of trust in U.S. institutions domestically, stemming from a perceived two-tiered system and lack of accountability for those in power, mirrors the systemic issues driving disillusionment with U.S. foreign policy abroad. 
  • The U.S. is currently operating as an empire, and like all historical empires, it risks a negative collapse by believing its own lies and failing to take accountability for its actions, which is now more overt due to information dissemination. 
  • Early interactions in Germany and Japan during the late 1980s revealed an underlying global skepticism or dislike toward the United States, contradicting the American exceptionalism narrative. 
  • Systemic issues, driven by incentives rather than individual mistakes, cause repeated negative foreign policy outcomes, leading the guest to view the U.S. as the antagonist from a global perspective. 
  • The influence of lobbying groups like AIPAC, which allegedly orchestrates significant political funding and shields itself from foreign agent registration, suggests a level of foreign control over U.S. political decision-making. 
  • The conversation heavily implies that organized, well-funded political action committees, such as AIPAC, systematically challenge and defeat U.S. politicians who speak out against Israel, suggesting a powerful, non-accidental influence on Congress. 
  • The historical origins of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are traced back to UN Resolution 181 (1947) and President Truman's immediate recognition of Israel without simultaneously recognizing Palestine, which is presented as the starting point of the ongoing issue. 
  • The participants conclude that the U.S. system is vulnerable to foreign influence due to structural issues like career politicians and unlimited campaign finance, and that true change requires citizens to actively seek out and accept uncomfortable, non-confirming information. 
  • The discussion suggests that systemic features driven by financial incentives, such as those benefiting military contractors and pharmaceutical companies (Pfizer, Moderna), often override national interest or ethical considerations in U.S. policy and spending. 
  • The U.S. military is identified as the world's number one polluter, operating under environmental reporting exclusions that exemplify the short-sighted nature of imperial priorities over global ecology. 
  • The political system is criticized for prioritizing short-term election cycles and political maneuvering (like failing to pass a budget or focusing on symbolic projects like the wall) over long-term national needs and fiscal responsibility, leading to massive waste, fraud, and abuse. 

Segments

Hot Question: 1930s Parallels
Copied to clipboard!
(00:01:05)
  • Key Takeaway: The modern world exhibits parallels to the 1930s, where pervasive pressure campaigns and propaganda set conditions for unavoidable major war, but the current situation is more akin to the ’tinderbox’ state preceding World War I.
  • Summary: The current era is characterized by the weaponization of narratives, markets, technology, supply chains, and domestic division, often involving psychological warfare from both external and internal sources. The guest suggests the world is more of a ’tinderbox’ now than before WWII, as diplomacy had more potential then, whereas now, the readiness to engage is higher. Information warfare is a critical battleground, actively pitting people against each other both domestically and internationally.
Historical US Interventions
Copied to clipboard!
(00:05:15)
  • Key Takeaway: U.S. interventionism, such as aiding Panama’s secession from Colombia to secure canal control, is not new but is now more overt due to the speed and unfiltered nature of modern information sharing.
  • Summary: Historical examples of U.S. actions, including interventions in Panama, Haiti, and Nicaragua dating back to the Spanish-American War, illustrate a long history of external influence. The internet allows for live casting from conflict zones, making information faster and less filtered, which forces the public to question official narratives rather than blindly trusting the government.
Domestic Division and Political Warfare
Copied to clipboard!
(00:08:12)
  • Key Takeaway: Contemporary U.S. political division, characterized by treating opposing parties as enemies rather than negotiating partners, intensified significantly starting in the mid-1980s with figures like Newt Gingrich framing politics as warfare.
  • Summary: The current level of partisan division is noted as historically unprecedented, contrasting with earlier eras where political disagreement focused on methodology rather than outright animosity toward the opposing side. This dynamic leads to policy reversal every four years instead of continuous progress, similar to a business being destroyed by constantly undoing the previous department head’s work.
Information Bubbles and Trust
Copied to clipboard!
(00:11:28)
  • Key Takeaway: Americans often live in information bubbles, making decisions based on partial data, and the technique of information overload is used to confuse the public, leading people to rely dangerously on trusted sources without reevaluation.
  • Summary: The inability to sift through overwhelming information forces individuals to rely on specific trusted sources, which is dangerous if those sources have ulterior motives. Tools like Ground News can help by visualizing media bias across different outlets, allowing users to compare coverage from left- and right-leaning sources on the same headline.
Escalation Chain and Non-Kinetic War
Copied to clipboard!
(00:18:38)
  • Key Takeaway: The current confluence of global events—including actions in Russia/Ukraine, Iran, and Venezuela—suggests an escalating chain of events toward potential conflict, which leaders are failing to break.
  • Summary: The guest, drawing on military training, sees a dangerous chain of events forming globally, which is being actively escalated rather than broken by those in power. World War III is unlikely to resemble past conflicts; instead, it will be systemic, relying on cyber warfare to disable power grids and supply chains rather than traditional kinetic battles.
Domestic Fragility and Systemic Failure
Copied to clipboard!
(00:24:33)
  • Key Takeaway: The U.S. is highly susceptible to internal collapse because its critical infrastructure (power grid, supply chain) is vulnerable, and external adversaries may only need to ‘dump gas on the fuel’ for internal division to cause a civil war or regime change.
  • Summary: The country is close to the brink of civil war or internal regime change, fueled by internal division that external actors exploit. The lack of trust in nearly all major institutions—government, law enforcement, healthcare, and military—is rooted in the visible lack of accountability for powerful figures. This systemic failure means the U.S. is already one of the most dangerous countries for its own citizens, evidenced by high rates of incarceration and civilian shootings compared to other developed nations.
Imperial Decline and Accountability
Copied to clipboard!
(00:34:05)
  • Key Takeaway: The United States, functioning as an empire, is following the historical pattern of decline seen in all previous empires by refusing accountability and believing its own lies, which necessitates systemic change or facing forced change.
  • Summary: Empires historically collapse when they stop taking accountability and act only because they can get away with it, a pattern visible in the U.S. today. The failure of leaders to own up to mistakes, instead blaming others, is the largest abdication of leadership. Historical parallels, such as the Roman Empire’s internal arguments and overextension, show that empires eventually fail when they cannot sustain their reach.
Population Decline Dynamics
Copied to clipboard!
(00:48:23)
  • Key Takeaway: Global population growth rates are decreasing, projected to peak around 2050 before beginning a decline, which will introduce unprecedented economic and societal dynamics unlike any experienced under continuous population growth.
  • Summary: The shift from agrarian societies, where more people meant more productivity, to industrial societies, where more children mean more expense, has driven down family sizes globally. This trend means that for the first time, the world will face a scenario with more housing and jobs available than people to fill them, a situation for which humanity has no historical experience.
Purpose of Country and System Failure
Copied to clipboard!
(00:54:40)
  • Key Takeaway: Citizens trade personal liberties for the convenience and services a system provides, but when that system fails to deliver protection and common good, the foundational contract of the country is broken.
  • Summary: The purpose of a country is to provide public defense and welfare in exchange for citizens’ freedoms, a trade-off that becomes invalid when the system is failing or operating on autopilot. When citizens no longer receive benefits commensurate with the freedoms they surrender, they question the system’s legitimacy, echoing Orwell’s warning that controlling the past allows control of the future.
Book Motivation and Columbus History
Copied to clipboard!
(00:59:56)
  • Key Takeaway: Michael Lester wrote We Are the Bad Guys because the reality of U.S. actions abroad contradicted the narrative of American exceptionalism, prompting a need to reveal suppressed historical facts to enable informed democracy.
  • Summary: The book aims to expose the full story that is often omitted from standard education, such as Christopher Columbus being arrested and brought back to Spain in chains for brutality and theft before being pardoned. Similarly, the story of Hawaii’s forced statehood at gunpoint is omitted from common teaching. Understanding these suppressed histories is crucial for citizens to make good decisions in a democracy.
Early US Perception Anecdotes
Copied to clipboard!
(00:59:49)
  • Key Takeaway: Foreigners in Italy and Japan expressed negative sentiment toward the US, even in the late 1980s, suggesting a long history of global skepticism.
  • Summary: Speaking German in Italy, the guest was asked where he was from; upon revealing the United States, the demeanor of the locals immediately changed negatively. Later, as an exchange officer with the Japanese Navy, he observed an undercurrent of dislike beneath surface-level alliance niceties. These experiences prompted the guest to question American exceptionalism and consider why the US was viewed unfavorably.
Discerning Justified Animosity
Copied to clipboard!
(01:14:02)
  • Key Takeaway: Justified animosity towards the US follows a pattern of repeated harmful activities, unlike simple jealousy, and is often rooted in the US using people rather than helping them.
  • Summary: The speaker suggests that statistical data, such as lower rankings in life expectancy and high incarceration rates, undermines the belief that everyone wants to live in America. He posits that US activities around the world frequently result in leaving behind hate and discontent due to choosing expedient, short-term actions over diplomatic ones. Making friends requires being a friend, a role the US sometimes fails to fulfill globally.
Book Writing Process and Motivation
Copied to clipboard!
(01:17:06)
  • Key Takeaway: Writing the book took 20 years of mental processing followed by a year and a half of active writing, maturing significantly during the drafting phase.
  • Summary: The book’s gestation period was two decades of internal processing before the author committed to writing it down over 18 months. The writing process was compared to having a child, as the initial seven-chapter structure matured and expanded as the author added necessary sections to explain complex issues. A key lesson learned was knowing when to stop writing to prevent the book from becoming overwhelmingly long.
Desert Storm Disillusionment Origin
Copied to clipboard!
(01:18:52)
  • Key Takeaway: Deployment during Desert Storm initiated the guest’s disillusionment after realizing the mission goals were unclear and that US troops were being paid by Saudi Arabia, suggesting mercenary status.
  • Summary: During nine months in the desert for Desert Storm, the guest questioned the ultimate goal beyond pushing Iraq out of Kuwait, noting inconsistencies in the stated reasons for intervention. He learned that the US State Department’s prior assurance to Saddam Hussein about non-involvement was contradicted by subsequent military action. The realization that Saudi Arabia was funding the US presence led him and others to feel they were acting as mercenaries, eroding initial trust.
Systemic Failures and Information Bubbles
Copied to clipboard!
(01:27:10)
  • Key Takeaway: The current political environment is characterized by entrenched confirmation bias, where citizens refuse to question their beliefs, preventing the informed electorate necessary for democracy.
  • Summary: People are entrenched in their views, often dismissing contradictory information as ‘fake news’ rather than engaging in dialogue to test their assumptions. The speaker emphasizes that true belief requires the ability to articulate and welcome challenges to one’s position, otherwise, it remains merely a feeling. This comfort in confirmation bias is actively destroying the foundation of an informed electorate required for sound democratic choices.
Political Promises vs. Reality
Copied to clipboard!
(01:28:29)
  • Key Takeaway: Current political administrations consistently fail to uphold major campaign promises, such as avoiding new wars, indicating that politicians are largely untrustworthy.
  • Summary: The speaker notes that politicians’ promises, like ’no new wars,’ are broken within the first year, citing ongoing conflicts in Ukraine, Gaza, and elsewhere. Furthermore, promises regarding transparency, such as releasing the Epstein files, result in heavily redacted documents or shifting narratives, reinforcing the view that nearly all politicians are fundamentally dishonest. This environment makes it impossible for the American people to formulate decisions based on accurate information.
Systemic Incentives Over Individuals
Copied to clipboard!
(01:31:30)
  • Key Takeaway: The consistent failure across different administrations points to a systemic problem where incentives prioritize money and profit over desired outcomes, such as in education.
  • Summary: When Republicans, Democrats, and others all produce the same foreign policy results, the issue lies within the system itself, which incentivizes money over proper outcomes. In education, despite spending the most per student, US rankings are mediocre because the system incentivizes profit rather than learning. Changing the system, not just throwing money at the problem, is necessary to alter these persistent, non-partisan failures.
US Empire Status and Maintenance
Copied to clipboard!
(01:48:31)
  • Key Takeaway: The United States functions as an empire, evidenced by its 740 global military bases, and historically, empires collapse due to overextension and maintenance failure, not external attack.
  • Summary: The US is defined as an empire because it controls other countries economically and socially, spending more on its military than the next ten countries combined. This massive global footprint, including 740 military bases compared to Iran’s one, drains resources that could be used domestically, like fixing infrastructure. The danger lies in the historical pattern where empires fall from internal maintenance failure due to being too spread out and losing popular support.
Zionism as a Political Control Mechanism
Copied to clipboard!
(01:56:34)
  • Key Takeaway: The political movement of Zionism, defined as demanding unconditional support for Israeli actions, has bought significant influence over the US Congress, evidenced by financial support and preferential treatment for Israeli leaders.
  • Summary: The speaker argues that the US is effectively occupied, pointing to $18 billion sent annually to Israel despite its alleged human rights abuses and the ability of the Israeli Prime Minister to bypass the US President to address Congress. Zionism is presented as a political movement requiring absolute agreement with Israel, which is distinct from Judaism, and those who speak against it face organized political opposition funded by groups like AIPAC and affiliated charities. This influence is so pervasive that even US military uniforms feature the symbol of ‘Greater Israel,’ reflecting an expansionist vision.
Influence of Pro-Israel Groups
Copied to clipboard!
(02:21:40)
  • Key Takeaway: Over 200 registered charities, PACs, and affiliated groups support pro-Israel lobbying, often funding challengers against incumbents who speak out against Israel in every election cycle.
  • Summary: AIPAC functions as a clearinghouse for numerous groups supporting Israel, with over 200 registered entities involved in political action. A consistent pattern shows that any politician opposing Israel faces a well-funded challenger in the subsequent election across all states. This organized financial opposition is explicitly stated as not being accidental.
Foreign Influence and Political Wealth
Copied to clipboard!
(02:23:20)
  • Key Takeaway: Politicians entering Congress with modest net worth often accumulate millions within a few years, raising ethical concerns about external financial influence, including from China.
  • Summary: The discussion notes that China already owns significant U.S. assets, including infrastructure. Concerns are raised over the rapid, unexplained wealth accumulation of some members of Congress, citing examples like Mitch McConnell’s shipping business ties. This rapid enrichment, despite modest congressional salaries, suggests systemic ethical issues within D.C.
Historical Roots of Israeli Statehood
Copied to clipboard!
(02:25:08)
  • Key Takeaway: UN Resolution 181 (1947) mandated both an Israeli and a Palestinian state and explicitly forbade the displacement of existing residents, but President Truman recognized Israel seven minutes after its declaration, ignoring the Palestinian state provision.
  • Summary: The creation of Israel was based on UN Resolution 181, which required a homeland without displacing current inhabitants and mandated a Palestinian state. Israel declared independence in 1948, and President Truman recognized it almost immediately, bypassing the agreed-upon dual-state structure. This immediate, unilateral recognition is identified as the foundational event leading to the current conflict, including the Palestinian ‘Nakba’ (catastrophe).
Systemic Political Fixes Proposed
Copied to clipboard!
(02:40:47)
  • Key Takeaway: Proposed systemic fixes to reduce undue influence include mandatory registration of foreign agents (FARA) for advocates of other countries and implementing term limits for Congress.
  • Summary: Advocates for foreign countries should be required to register as foreign agents, which would mandate transparency regarding funding and advocacy activities. Term limits for senators and congressmen are suggested to prevent lifelong careers that lead to being beholden to special interests. Furthermore, eliminating riders on bills is proposed to ensure votes are cast on single, clear legislative items.
Erosion of Democratic Elections
Copied to clipboard!
(02:42:58)
  • Key Takeaway: U.S. elections are increasingly non-sovereign due to gerrymandering and media influence, evidenced by statistics showing that the candidate who spends the most money wins 94% of the time.
  • Summary: Gerrymandering allows politicians to redraw districts to maintain power, which is fundamentally anti-democratic. The financial aspect of elections is critical, as statistics suggest the highest spender wins the vast majority of races, effectively making campaign finance the deciding factor over voter choice. Campaign finance limits are suggested as a way to level the playing field and reduce the influence of large donors.
US Role as Global Antagonist
Copied to clipboard!
(02:56:01)
  • Key Takeaway: While American people are inherently good, the outcome of U.S. foreign policy actions is often viewed globally as that of the antagonist, leading to a lack of genuine international trust.
  • Summary: The title of the book, ‘Are We the Bad Guys?’, addresses how U.S. actions are perceived externally, regardless of domestic intent. History judges nations by outcomes, and the results of U.S. interventions often lead other countries to distrust American friendship. This pattern of self-interested action contrasts with long-lasting empires that prioritized mutual benefit.
Regime Change Success Rate and AI Bias
Copied to clipboard!
(03:03:29)
  • Key Takeaway: The U.S. has no verifiable successful regime change where the country thrived after American departure, as post-change leaders typically serve U.S. economic interests rather than the populace.
  • Summary: Regime changes orchestrated by the U.S. often result in installing leaders favorable to American corporate interests, leading to resource exploitation that benefits the elite but not the general population. Internally driven revolutions often result in a dangerous pendulum swing to the opposite extreme, rarely settling in the middle. Furthermore, AI models exhibit political bias, refusing to answer certain politically charged questions while readily answering others, demonstrating that information sources are inherently curated.
Information Warfare and Critical Thinking
Copied to clipboard!
(03:29:34)
  • Key Takeaway: The future battleground is the human mind, requiring citizens to actively seek diverse information and question assumptions, as relying on a single source, including AI, leads to intellectual stagnation.
  • Summary: Information warfare focuses on controlling what people think and feel to dictate their actions; without action, communication is pointless. Relying solely on one news source or one AI model creates confirmation bias, making it nearly impossible to break ingrained beliefs. The antidote is to welcome respectful debate, conduct personal research, and ask critical questions about conflicting information, such as that surrounding 9/11 or COVID-19 origins.
Virus Origins and US Involvement
Copied to clipboard!
(03:40:11)
  • Key Takeaway: The speaker believes the US had involvement in Wuhan prior to COVID-19, suggesting the virus release was accidental rather than planned.
  • Summary: MERS and COVID-19 outbreaks are noted, with the speaker questioning the nature of gain-of-function research. The presence of US doctors coordinating in Wuhan is highlighted as a point of interest regarding the virus’s origin. The speaker leans toward believing the COVID-19 release was accidental, not intentionally planned.
Lab Creation and Accidental Release
Copied to clipboard!
(03:41:05)
  • Key Takeaway: The speaker personally believes COVID-19 was created in a lab, contrasting the difficulty of creating nuclear material with the relative ease of creating a dangerous virus in a lab.
  • Summary: Concerns about biological threats like anthrax infecting water supplies are raised as more immediate than nuclear suitcase bombs. The speaker asserts a personal belief that COVID-19 was created in a lab, not spontaneously erupted in nature. The lack of global repercussions for China following the release is noted as a significant question.
Profits and Systemic Abuse
Copied to clipboard!
(03:46:17)
  • Key Takeaway: Pharmaceutical companies like Pfizer and Moderna profited significantly from the pandemic, illustrating a systemic issue where profit dictates decisions over public welfare.
  • Summary: Pfizer and Moderna gained substantial profits from COVID-19 vaccines, highlighting a system where profit motives override public good. This profit-driven decision-making is compared to historical issues like KBR’s actions in Iraq, suggesting a pattern of prioritizing financial gain over human cost. The military-industrial complex also benefits from continuous spending and equipment replacement cycles.
Military Equipment Cycling Economics
Copied to clipboard!
(03:48:11)
  • Key Takeaway: The US military budget sustains itself by continuously giving away or selling older equipment to allies to make room for new purchases, effectively rebuying its own gear annually.
  • Summary: Military equipment is frequently given away to allies to clear inventory for newer models, similar to how a car dealer clears old stock. This practice forces the military to constantly repurchase equipment, contributing to the massive defense budget. Equipment provided in the field, like WWII-era holsters during the Gulf War, is sometimes ill-suited for modern combat needs.
Gulf War Ammunition Shortages
Copied to clipboard!
(03:51:30)
  • Key Takeaway: The Gulf War exposed a critical failure in military logistics where ammunition stockpiles were depleted due to budget reallocation for new weapon systems years prior.
  • Summary: A post-graduate school instructor revealed that ammunition stockpiles were intentionally under-replaced to fund new weapon systems, creating a ‘bow wave of debt’ in supply. US forces entered the Gulf War without sufficient ammunition to sustain combat operations. This situation is cited as an example of capitalism negatively impacting the ability to defend the country.
Trappings of Empire: Ecology and Economics
Copied to clipboard!
(03:56:58)
  • Key Takeaway: Imperial actions, focused solely on self-interest, lead to short-sighted policies that ultimately poison the empire’s own environment and global economic stability.
  • Summary: As an empire, the US prioritizes its own needs, which often means poisoning shared resources like the environment, evidenced by the US military being the world’s largest polluter. Economically, imperial actions can cause global instability, mirroring how a lowering tide sinks all boats, regardless of size. These short-sighted imperial trappings are difficult to escape without recognizing the need for global benefit over singular gain.
Oil Dependency and Foreign Policy
Copied to clipboard!
(04:00:12)
  • Key Takeaway: US foreign policy remains unnecessarily focused on securing oil resources, particularly in places like Venezuela, despite the US being the world’s largest oil producer and the strategic need to transition to nuclear power.
  • Summary: The US continues to engage in conflicts related to oil, such as in Venezuela, even though it is currently the largest global oil producer and should be prioritizing nuclear energy development. Moving off the oil standard would likely resolve many conflicts in the Middle East, as current instability is tied to oil control. The focus on oil infrastructure prevents necessary investment in superior energy sources like nuclear power.
Imperial Playbook: Regime Change and Debt Traps
Copied to clipboard!
(04:02:40)
  • Key Takeaway: The imperial playbook relies on regime change, sanctions, and proxy wars that benefit the US but cause devastation abroad, often facilitated by economic manipulation through debt.
  • Summary: Regime changes and proxy wars are conducted for US benefit without improving conditions for the targeted nations, offering plausible deniability for direct conflict. Economic manipulation, detailed in ‘Confessions of an Economic Hitman,’ involves issuing unpayable loans to lock countries into perpetual debt to the US. The US leveraged its relationship with Saudi Arabia in the mid-70s to secure oil supply in exchange for infrastructure investment, tying their oil sales to the US dollar.
Dollar Hegemony and BRICS Threat
Copied to clipboard!
(04:07:35)
  • Key Takeaway: The US economy is terrified of losing the dollar’s status as the sole currency for oil trade, which is why any move by nations like Saudi Arabia to trade in currencies like the ruble or yen is met with immediate political pressure.
  • Summary: The agreement forcing Saudi Arabia to sell oil exclusively in US dollars, which recently expired, was crucial for maintaining the dollar’s global standing. If major oil producers trade in other currencies, the demand for the dollar collapses, threatening the US economy. This fear explains the immediate political response to countries aligning with BRICS or suggesting alternative trade currencies.
Refugee Policy and Political Inaction
Copied to clipboard!
(04:11:45)
  • Key Takeaway: The US imports refugees created by its foreign interventions but fails to provide adequate support for their integration, a failure driven by political calculations rather than ethical responsibility.
  • Summary: The ethical obligation exists to either help stabilize the countries the US destabilizes or properly care for the resulting refugees. Bringing people in without providing necessary resources for success is counterproductive and politically expedient because helping refugees does not generate political capital for re-election. Politicians prioritize short-term political gains over fixing domestic issues like the estimated $600 billion in annual waste, fraud, and abuse.
Political Short-Sightedness and Public Service
Copied to clipboard!
(04:19:07)
  • Key Takeaway: US politicians operate on a short-term election cycle, treating essential governance tasks like passing a budget as optional, which wastes taxpayer money and demonstrates a lack of dedication to public service.
  • Summary: Congress members going on vacation when a budget fails to pass illustrates a lack of dedication compared to military personnel in combat. Politicians act as ‘public masters’ rather than servants, focusing on re-election rather than tackling major financial issues like the $600 billion in waste. This short-sightedness leads to inefficient spending, such as building infrastructure in phases to maximize election cycle benefits.
Final Encouragement and Skepticism
Copied to clipboard!
(04:26:22)
  • Key Takeaway: The most important action for citizens is to question everything, validate information independently, and maintain the gumption to demand better governance.
  • Summary: Education and questioning all narratives are presented as the best tools for self-improvement and national betterment. Listeners are urged to ask about agendas, seek opposing viewpoints, and validate information before accepting it as truth. The speaker emphasizes that the audience must possess the ‘gumption’ to act on this knowledge to effect positive change.