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[00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:04.640] This is Piera Gelardi for Female Startup Club.
[00:00:12.640 --> 00:00:14.640] Hello and welcome back to the show.
[00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:18.560] It's Dune here, your host and hype girl.
[00:00:18.560 --> 00:00:26.320] Today I'm having a chat with the wonderful Piera Gelati, who you might recognize as the co-founder of Refinery 29.
[00:00:26.320 --> 00:00:32.160] But today we're talking all the things about her new venture, Wild Things World.
[00:00:32.160 --> 00:00:35.440] And it is a total cracker.
[00:00:35.440 --> 00:00:40.960] Piera is one of those people that radiates joy and good vibes.
[00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:46.800] And we talked a lot about her lessons learned throughout her 15 years of building Refinery 29.
[00:00:47.120 --> 00:00:56.480] We also talk about her bootstrapped pathway following her passion with Wild Things World and why we should all find our inner creative in the world.
[00:00:56.480 --> 00:01:03.600] And stick around to the end of the six quick questions because she shares some really wild stories at the end.
[00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:13.360] If you love this episode, please let me know by posting a screenshot to Instagram stories, tagging us, or dropping to my DMs for a chat at Dune Rochine.
[00:01:13.360 --> 00:01:14.880] Let's get into this episode.
[00:01:14.880 --> 00:01:18.480] This is Piera for Female Startup Club.
[00:01:20.720 --> 00:01:24.560] Tacovis is coming to New York City at 105 Worcester Street in Soho.
[00:01:24.560 --> 00:01:31.920] In every pair of Tacovis boots for men and women, you can expect handmade quality, first wear comfort, and timeless Western style.
[00:01:31.920 --> 00:01:40.000] Come on in, grab a cold one, shop around, and get fitted by a pro, offering complimentary custom hat and boot branding, boot shines, and more.
[00:01:40.000 --> 00:01:45.440] Grand opening at 105 Worcester Street is Friday, September 12th through Sunday, September 14th.
[00:01:45.440 --> 00:01:49.120] Enjoy live music and free swag for the first 50 folks in the door daily.
[00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:51.360] To Covis, Forever West.
[00:01:51.360 --> 00:01:53.680] Pura is the smart way to fragrance your home.
[00:01:53.680 --> 00:01:59.800] Customize your scents with app control, schedule them to fit your life, and enjoy premium fragrances that last.
[00:01:59.800 --> 00:02:03.880] And here's something to celebrate: when you start today, your first fragrance is free.
[00:01:59.440 --> 00:02:06.840] It's the perfect time to discover why everyone's switching to Pura.
[00:02:07.000 --> 00:02:09.800] But hurry, this offer is for a limited time only.
[00:02:09.800 --> 00:02:14.440] Go now to Pura.com and claim your free set before it's gone.
[00:02:15.720 --> 00:02:19.480] ACAST powers the world's best podcasts.
[00:02:19.480 --> 00:02:21.720] Here's the show that we recommend.
[00:02:24.280 --> 00:02:25.480] I'm Ethan Cher.
[00:02:25.480 --> 00:02:26.760] And I'm Brock Charlelli.
[00:02:26.760 --> 00:02:28.200] We played best friends on the middle.
[00:02:28.200 --> 00:02:29.800] And became best friends in real life.
[00:02:29.800 --> 00:02:32.280] We're here to rewatch The Middle with all of you.
[00:02:32.280 --> 00:02:37.720] Each week, we'll recap an episode with behind-the-scenes stories, guest interviews, and what we think now, many years later.
[00:02:37.720 --> 00:02:41.320] There's a lot to dive into, so let's get to middling.
[00:02:48.360 --> 00:02:54.120] ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere.
[00:02:54.120 --> 00:02:56.040] Acast.com.
[00:02:58.920 --> 00:02:59.880] Piera!
[00:02:59.880 --> 00:03:03.160] Hi, welcome to the Female Startup Club podcast.
[00:03:03.160 --> 00:03:04.360] Thanks for having me.
[00:03:04.360 --> 00:03:05.880] How are you going over there?
[00:03:06.200 --> 00:03:07.480] Doing pretty well.
[00:03:07.480 --> 00:03:10.200] Slightly sleep-depressed, but otherwise good.
[00:03:11.160 --> 00:03:12.600] Aren't we all?
[00:03:12.920 --> 00:03:14.280] Aren't we all?
[00:03:15.240 --> 00:03:17.480] I'm so excited to be learning from you today.
[00:03:17.480 --> 00:03:21.960] I'm excited to be talking about all things creativity, brand.
[00:03:21.960 --> 00:03:29.160] I'm excited to talk about how creativity impacts the human experience and everything that you've been up to lately.
[00:03:29.160 --> 00:03:30.920] Yeah, me too.
[00:03:32.520 --> 00:03:44.280] I feel like most people probably know you as Piera, co-founder of Refinery 29, but maybe not so much as Piera, founder of Wild Things World.
[00:03:44.280 --> 00:03:49.920] So I'd love for you to give us a little bit of an introduction into what Wild Things World is.
[00:03:50.240 --> 00:03:51.200] Yeah.
[00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:51.440] Yeah.
[00:03:51.680 --> 00:03:55.440] For 15 years, I was with Piera from Refinery 29.
[00:03:55.440 --> 00:03:57.120] That was like how people introduced me.
[00:03:57.120 --> 00:04:05.840] So it's been an interesting identity shift, you know, moving into this new phase of life and deciding to start a new business.
[00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:11.840] And yeah, so I started my business, Wild Things World, to bring more play into the everyday.
[00:04:11.840 --> 00:04:19.040] You know, play has all these incredible superpowers for helping us to feel more connected to ourselves, to other people.
[00:04:19.040 --> 00:04:21.120] It helps reduce stress.
[00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:24.480] It is incredible for creativity and innovation.
[00:04:24.480 --> 00:04:27.280] And it can even make us live longer.
[00:04:27.280 --> 00:04:36.960] But in adulthood, we deprioritize play and it just kind of becomes like the last thing on our list of, you know, things to do.
[00:04:37.280 --> 00:04:46.320] And so I really want to celebrate like that power of play and bring more play into people's lives through my new company, Wild Things World, which I just started.
[00:04:46.320 --> 00:04:47.840] I mean, it's only a few months old.
[00:04:47.840 --> 00:04:52.720] So you're catching me like in the baby, baby stages of it.
[00:04:52.720 --> 00:04:53.840] It's in the early days.
[00:04:53.840 --> 00:04:54.240] I love it.
[00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:55.040] Early days.
[00:04:55.680 --> 00:04:57.520] We're seeing it from the beginning here.
[00:04:57.520 --> 00:05:01.600] We're going to have to get you back on two years down the track.
[00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:02.800] Definitely.
[00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:16.880] It's interesting because I've watched your journey over the last couple of years on Instagram and I've always loved, you know, the videos of you dancing with your daughter and you seem to have so much fun online.
[00:05:16.880 --> 00:05:26.800] How did you kind of like, were you always thinking about Wild Things World in the background while you were kind of creating these fun moments or was this just like this is just natural you?
[00:05:26.800 --> 00:05:28.400] You've always been like this.
[00:05:28.400 --> 00:05:30.000] Like what's it, what's it like?
[00:05:30.840 --> 00:05:33.080] I wish I was dancing.
[00:05:33.720 --> 00:05:35.560] Well I highly recommend.
[00:05:35.560 --> 00:05:39.320] I think we could all use more dancing in our lives, myself included.
[00:05:40.040 --> 00:05:46.840] You know Wild Things World has has I mean, everyone that knows me well is like, oh, this is so you.
[00:05:46.840 --> 00:05:55.400] This is so obviously you're calling your path something that you would do because play has always been an important part of my life.
[00:05:55.400 --> 00:06:03.080] You know, as a leader at Refinery 29, play was a huge part of how I led creative teams and creative work.
[00:06:03.080 --> 00:06:08.440] I, you know, I built 29 rooms within Refinery 29 and that was a playground.
[00:06:08.440 --> 00:06:15.720] It was a funhouse for artists and consumers to come through and express themselves.
[00:06:15.720 --> 00:06:20.040] So play has always been an aspect of what I do.
[00:06:20.040 --> 00:06:27.000] And of course, being a parent, that has opened up my eyes to just this whole new realm of play.
[00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:37.640] And I really, that's probably my favorite thing about parenting is that it gives me that much more permission to play and explore and let my inner child come out.
[00:06:37.960 --> 00:06:41.640] So yeah, I mean, all of those things really led me to create Wild Things World.
[00:06:41.640 --> 00:06:57.400] And then also during the pandemic, like when I left Refinery at the end of 2020, I felt like one, I needed some kind of creative bridge to take me from this 15-year chapter of my life to this terrifying unknown future.
[00:06:57.400 --> 00:07:06.200] I mean, terrifying and exciting, but you know, definitely scary to close a chapter like that and not know what's next.
[00:07:06.520 --> 00:07:15.000] So, in that moment, I actually got trained in this cathartic form of dance that my friend Debbie Atiyah started called Dancer System.
[00:07:16.400 --> 00:07:22.880] And I didn't think I was gonna teach, but I got through a training and got a teacher training.
[00:07:22.880 --> 00:07:27.760] And at the end of it, I decided to open it up to my Instagram community, friends, and family.
[00:07:27.760 --> 00:07:36.080] And all of a sudden, I had thousands of people around the world that took that signed up to take my dance class.
[00:07:36.080 --> 00:07:47.760] And so, I taught people, and I say taught loosely, I really just like guided these dance parties throughout the pandemic in this really cathartic, emotive form of dance.
[00:07:47.760 --> 00:08:03.920] And that very much like solidified for me the need to create space for people and permission for people to play because what came back from teaching dancer system during the pandemic was just so moving and powerful.
[00:08:03.920 --> 00:08:27.280] It was one of the most like meaningful things I've ever done in my life: just showing up week after week, you know, people popping in from all over the place and hearing how that helped their mental, you know, people's mental health, how it connected them to loved ones that were in other places where they couldn't physically be together, how it helped people with their creativity with feeling unstuck.
[00:08:27.280 --> 00:08:36.000] So, yeah, there's been like many different aspects, like many different experiences that really led me to creating Wild Things World.
[00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:37.600] Oh my gosh, that's amazing.
[00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:44.560] I think I remember actually during the pandemic, you were doing like disco kind of vibes on your Instagram.
[00:08:44.560 --> 00:08:46.560] Yeah, I loved it.
[00:08:46.560 --> 00:08:48.480] Yeah, I'm just thinking back now.
[00:08:48.480 --> 00:08:49.600] I do remember those.
[00:08:49.600 --> 00:08:50.320] That was cool.
[00:08:50.360 --> 00:09:03.640] Oh, it was just elaborating on dance, but yeah, it's-I mean, the amazing thing about Dancer System 2 is that it's not, you know, it's not choreographed in a way of like, and a one, two, three, and we're all doing the same dance move perfectly.
[00:09:03.880 --> 00:09:07.960] It's very loose, very playful, cathartic.
[00:09:07.960 --> 00:09:16.280] So it's like, you know, stomp your feet and scream, like make a monster face, you know, lick your paws and like twirl your kitty cat tail.
[00:09:16.360 --> 00:09:30.360] So it's just like these, you know, all these fun prompts that I think just gave people a lot of permission to, you know, be wild and explore different aspects of themselves and feel free and be creative and have fun.
[00:09:30.360 --> 00:09:30.760] Yeah.
[00:09:31.080 --> 00:09:32.440] Gosh, amazing.
[00:09:32.440 --> 00:09:33.880] That's so cool.
[00:09:33.880 --> 00:09:45.080] So cool that that's how it kind of was born out of this, like, you know, you take this dance class, you experience this transformational thing, you start offering it to people at a time when people really need it.
[00:09:45.080 --> 00:09:49.480] And then this leads to being like, yeah, this is, how do I turn this into a business?
[00:09:49.480 --> 00:10:01.160] How can I monetize this to like support, you know, what I'm doing here, but also impact people and impact mental health, which is obviously such a big issue in the world right now.
[00:10:01.160 --> 00:10:01.640] Yeah.
[00:10:01.640 --> 00:10:03.240] More than ever.
[00:10:03.560 --> 00:10:19.960] I want to kind of, I feel like I'm getting ahead, I'm getting too much into Wild Things World, but I want to stay around refinery for a hot second and talk about, you know, you as a creative leader and especially around like what you were doing to lead people creatively and what you were doing with 29 rooms.
[00:10:19.960 --> 00:10:29.080] I'd love to know kind of how you were bringing that creativity into the office and you know managing big teams of people.
[00:10:29.400 --> 00:10:36.840] Yeah, I mean, I had a lot of different ways that I did that, that I led people creatively, but play was a huge part of it.
[00:10:36.840 --> 00:10:52.080] I think, you know, so often people, when they're doing a brainstorm, for example, it's the default for a brainstorm is just like you sit down in a room, you talk about what the problem is, and then you say, okay, what ideas do you have?
[00:10:52.400 --> 00:10:56.720] And that process is so...
[00:10:56.800 --> 00:11:02.320] puts so much pressure on people and it doesn't warm people up to be creative.
[00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:08.800] I think, you know, I've seen that in so many instances, you know, that that is kind of the default.
[00:11:08.800 --> 00:11:19.680] And there's this amazing book, Priya Parker, The Art of Gathering, that I read, I guess I read it last year, but she talks so much about in it, it's about bringing people together.
[00:11:19.680 --> 00:11:30.800] It doesn't, I don't think she addresses brainstorming, but I do think it's applicable because, you know, so often we kind of just go to this default of how something is done.
[00:11:30.800 --> 00:11:38.960] And there's not a lot of consideration in terms of how we're setting the intention for the space, how we're bringing people together.
[00:11:38.960 --> 00:11:43.360] And in my role as a creative leader, I always thought of myself as the host.
[00:11:43.680 --> 00:11:55.520] You know, early in refinery, I was the creator and I was making things, you know, I was making things and I was very in the in the creative process and like of actually making.
[00:11:55.520 --> 00:12:06.160] And then over time, as I started to manage people, my job shifted from, you know, from that to like helping other people have their best creative ideas.
[00:12:06.160 --> 00:12:08.240] And so to me, that role was the host.
[00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:14.480] How do I make it clear what it is that we are here to do?
[00:12:14.800 --> 00:12:22.240] How do I make it clear, you know, the intentions behind that, the values behind that, the goals that we're trying to hit?
[00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:30.000] And how do I create the space where people feel comfortable and safe enough to share ideas, to share bad ideas?
[00:12:30.280 --> 00:12:50.040] I mean, I think the most generous thing that you can do in a brainstorm is to share a bad idea because when you have that environment where people feel comfortable enough to share something that is half-baked or far-fetched or you know that they might even think is a bad idea, it, you know, it all, everyone builds on each other.
[00:12:50.040 --> 00:13:08.440] So, so often, what happens, and I've seen this pattern happen so many times, where it's like, you know, a free-wheeling brainstorm, someone says something ridiculous, everyone laughs, and then boom, that amazing moment of brilliance, like someone comes out with that fantastic idea.
[00:13:08.440 --> 00:13:15.400] And that was because the person before them said the funny thing or the weird thing, and it triggered something.
[00:13:15.400 --> 00:13:19.800] So, I often, as a creative leader, thought about how do I create that space?
[00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:24.680] How do I warm people up with a game or an improv thing?
[00:13:24.680 --> 00:13:28.840] How do I, as the leader, you know, share the bad ideas?
[00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:41.320] How do I show that I'm just as silly and imperfect as everyone else so that I can create that type of environment for everyone else in the room?
[00:13:41.480 --> 00:13:43.640] So, that was always really important to me.
[00:13:43.640 --> 00:13:59.560] And just, yeah, being really thoughtful about how to structure the creative process to get, you know, to bring the ideas out of everyone, help people build on their ideas and not feel like I, as the leader, had to have the best idea in the room.
[00:13:59.560 --> 00:14:06.120] That my job was to nurture the ideas in the room so that our collective idea could be the best.
[00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:08.360] I love that.
[00:14:08.360 --> 00:14:09.800] I love that.
[00:14:09.800 --> 00:14:14.400] For anyone like listening right now who's listening to that, being like, Wow, that's amazing.
[00:14:13.960 --> 00:14:17.120] But, but you know, you're a big team and you had a lot of people in a room.
[00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:28.000] And maybe some people listening are solo entrepreneurs or a small team of two or in working with their husband or working with their partner.
[00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:39.200] What are some tips or frameworks that you could give for those people to get creative within themselves when they're kind of entering that brainstorm moment of like, oh, I need to come up with some marketing campaigns.
[00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:45.200] I'm going to sit down with my notepad and pen and then I'm going to get stuck and I'm going to be like, damn, I've got no ideas.
[00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:45.760] Yeah.
[00:14:46.400 --> 00:14:54.480] Well, I mean, I think the main thing is that, yeah, whether you're doing that with a big team of people or by yourself or with a partner, it still is the same thing.
[00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:58.480] Like you have to create the conditions for creativity.
[00:14:58.480 --> 00:15:00.800] So those conditions are different for everyone.
[00:15:00.800 --> 00:15:03.120] So I think the first thing is self-awareness.
[00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:16.480] Like so often we have that moment where we sit down and we try and like push, you know, ideas out of our brain with no warm-up, with no, you know, like, you know, with a lot of pressure.
[00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:18.720] And it doesn't, and it doesn't happen.
[00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:20.880] You know, I mean, I'm guilty of it too.
[00:15:21.520 --> 00:15:26.720] So I think what's really important is just remembering that you have to create those conditions for yourself.
[00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:30.800] Like, how do you, how do you be a good host to yourself and your own creativity?
[00:15:30.800 --> 00:15:33.120] So maybe that is doing a warm-up.
[00:15:33.120 --> 00:15:38.560] Maybe you take a one-minute dance break before you brainstorm, or maybe you take a walk.
[00:15:38.880 --> 00:15:43.520] I mean, I do this really hilarious thing now that I'm working much more solo.
[00:15:43.520 --> 00:15:48.880] I have a transcription app and I walk around the neighborhood and I talk to myself.
[00:15:49.120 --> 00:16:03.000] Like, I mean, I think people think I'm on a call, but yeah, I talk, I mean, I talk to myself because I've realized that talking ideas out is one of the ways that I come up with the best ideas, but I don't have someone to talk to every day now.
[00:15:59.680 --> 00:16:05.480] So I walk around and talk to myself.
[00:16:05.800 --> 00:16:10.680] So I think it's also just like, yeah, just giving yourself like fun challenges too.
[00:16:10.680 --> 00:16:13.720] Like maybe you say, okay, I'm going to write the headline.
[00:16:13.720 --> 00:16:18.200] I'm going to write the headline to like the press article that I would want to be written about this.
[00:16:18.200 --> 00:16:21.640] And I'm going to give myself a two-minute timer to do it.
[00:16:21.640 --> 00:16:24.360] And like, try to have fun, you know, try to have fun with it.
[00:16:24.360 --> 00:16:33.400] And I just, I think like challenges, like giving yourself like breaks and knowing what, you know, knowing what works for your creativity.
[00:16:33.400 --> 00:16:38.600] So often we do fixate on that moment of deficit where we don't have an idea.
[00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:48.280] But if we can also notice when we had great ideas, like what was happening for us in that moment and how do we replicate that for ourselves, that is super powerful.
[00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:49.560] Yeah.
[00:16:49.800 --> 00:16:59.560] I'm like that kind of person that has like the idea in the shower or the middle of the night and they need to get into that habit of writing it down because I fall asleep and then I'll wake up or whatever it is.
[00:16:59.560 --> 00:17:02.440] I move activities and then I'm like, oh, I forget that idea.
[00:17:02.440 --> 00:17:09.400] Like I need to be more in tune to capturing that, putting it somewhere and then being like, okay, it's stored.
[00:17:09.400 --> 00:17:12.760] I can move on and then come back to it and kind of flesh it out.
[00:17:12.760 --> 00:17:13.240] Yeah.
[00:17:13.560 --> 00:17:13.880] Yeah.
[00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:21.880] Before I had a child, I always like, it was so annoying, but my creative, my creativity would wake up at 3:30 in the morning.
[00:17:22.200 --> 00:17:35.400] And I, you know, first I would always try and go back to sleep, but then I realized like, oh, I'm not going to be able to go back to sleep because I'm going to be going to have an idea and then I'm going to be just like laying there praying that I don't forget it.
[00:17:35.400 --> 00:17:43.640] So I would, yeah, there was like a period where I would like routinely wake up at 3:30 and write for like 30 minutes, like whatever was in my brain.
[00:17:43.640 --> 00:17:46.160] And I got a lot of ideas at that time.
[00:17:46.400 --> 00:18:04.960] So, yeah, sometimes it's even if your process is super annoying to you and like not the way you want it to be, sometimes you just have to basically work with you know, work with your creativity and be a partner to it and find a way to, yeah, capture the ideas whenever they come to you.
[00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:11.040] Tocovis is coming to New York City at 105 Worcester Street in Soho.
[00:18:11.040 --> 00:18:18.400] In every pair of Tecovis boots for men and women, you can expect handmade quality, first wear comfort, and timeless Western style.
[00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:26.480] Come on in, grab a cold one, shop around, and get fitted by a pro, offering complimentary custom hat and boot branding, boot shines, and more.
[00:18:26.480 --> 00:18:31.840] Grand opening at 105 Worcester Street is Friday, September 12th through Sunday, September 14th.
[00:18:31.840 --> 00:18:35.600] Enjoy live music and free swag for the first 50 folks in the door daily.
[00:18:35.600 --> 00:18:37.760] Tocovis, Forever West.
[00:18:37.760 --> 00:18:40.080] Pura is the smart way to fragrance your home.
[00:18:40.080 --> 00:18:46.240] Customize your scents with app control, schedule them to fit your life, and enjoy premium fragrances that last.
[00:18:46.240 --> 00:18:50.320] And here's something to celebrate: when you start today, your first fragrance is free.
[00:18:50.320 --> 00:18:53.440] It's the perfect time to discover why everyone's switching to Pura.
[00:18:53.440 --> 00:18:56.240] But hurry, this offer is for a limited time only.
[00:18:56.240 --> 00:19:00.800] Go now to Pura.com and claim your free set before it's gone.
[00:19:03.360 --> 00:19:07.200] So at some point, you've left Refinery 29.
[00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:09.520] You're doing these danceicisms.
[00:19:09.520 --> 00:19:10.480] Dancicisms?
[00:19:10.880 --> 00:19:11.440] That's right.
[00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:11.840] Yeah.
[00:19:11.840 --> 00:19:12.960] Dancicisms.
[00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:14.320] You're having a lot of fun.
[00:19:14.320 --> 00:19:16.480] Thousands of people are connecting with you.
[00:19:16.480 --> 00:19:22.480] And you start to swell on this idea of building this into your next venture.
[00:19:22.800 --> 00:19:23.920] What's the vision?
[00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:24.960] What are you thinking?
[00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:27.200] Like, how does it work?
[00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:29.200] So, I really started with a why.
[00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:31.080] I mean, I was teaching dancersism.
[00:19:31.240 --> 00:19:39.000] I mean, there weren't thousands of people coming to each session, but like, cumulatively, throughout it, I had thousands of people join.
[00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:42.120] And yeah, I was teaching the dancer system.
[00:19:42.120 --> 00:19:51.160] And my next thing is within this world, within this realm of play and catharsis and creativity.
[00:19:51.160 --> 00:19:56.520] And I mean, I probably could have told you that in a way when I left Refinery.
[00:19:56.520 --> 00:20:00.200] Like, I knew I've always had that pull.
[00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:11.160] Like, you know, helping people tap into their creativity has always been something that is really important to me and really motivating for me and really joyful for me.
[00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:17.720] So, I, yeah, but as I was teaching, it became more and more clear that I wanted to do that.
[00:20:17.720 --> 00:20:19.560] And I really just started with the why.
[00:20:19.560 --> 00:20:21.800] I started with research.
[00:20:21.800 --> 00:20:34.840] I started just reading a lot of books about play and mental health, and you know, I mean, actually, like a huge range of different things, like the create, you know, the creative process.
[00:20:34.840 --> 00:20:42.360] And yeah, I started there and then I started working on like what is the why of this?
[00:20:42.360 --> 00:20:47.560] Like, and from there, I kept building.
[00:20:47.560 --> 00:20:55.640] But I decided to launch in the spring without actually like a business plan or a clear what.
[00:20:55.640 --> 00:21:01.000] Like, I just launched with like, this is this is the ethos.
[00:21:01.320 --> 00:21:13.640] And I decided I was going to do that because I felt like if I was going to create this brand that was all about helping people to play, play requires so much vulnerability.
[00:21:13.640 --> 00:21:17.200] It requires us to, it's the antithesis of perfection.
[00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:20.480] It's messy, it's imperfect, it's unsure.
[00:21:20.800 --> 00:21:26.480] And so I realized if I was going to create that business, then I had to walk that walk.
[00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:44.240] And the true, like, it was much more true to this business and this brand that I want to create to release it like without really any clue of what it was going to be versus holding on to it until I felt certain.
[00:21:44.560 --> 00:21:48.560] So yeah, basically, like I put it out there and I'm figuring it out.
[00:21:48.560 --> 00:21:56.480] I mean, we're all, we all figure things out as we go along, but I think this is more than I probably would have with anything else.
[00:21:56.480 --> 00:22:00.480] I just decided that this is the right way to do this.
[00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:08.160] It might not be the right way to do other things, but this project is all about the messy process.
[00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:24.160] And also, I felt like if I was going to lead this, I have to live it because that will help me to know how I, how to help other people to like get into that, to feel safe within that vulnerable space of play.
[00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:25.040] I agree.
[00:22:25.040 --> 00:22:37.120] And I think it sounds like, you know, you're approaching this as putting something out in the world and listening, like seeing what resonates with people, exploring different ideas instead of being like, nope, this is the product, like this is what it's going to be.
[00:22:37.120 --> 00:22:38.560] Like, here it is.
[00:22:38.560 --> 00:22:45.280] You're more like, okay, let's, let's go with the flow and like see what people like and want to engage with.
[00:22:45.280 --> 00:22:53.680] What are the kinds of kinds of activities that you're launching or trialing or exploring at the moment?
[00:22:53.680 --> 00:22:59.880] Yeah, so I started with doing in-person events.
[00:22:59.040 --> 00:23:05.560] Like that was the first thing that I got started with, and some as our own events and some in partnership.
[00:23:05.880 --> 00:23:20.520] I've been partnering a lot with my friend's mental health nonprofit called Half the Story, which is all about digital well-being and helping people understand their relationship with technology and also helping people connect offline.
[00:23:20.680 --> 00:23:31.720] So we've been doing some really amazing partnerships where I'm helping people to connect with each other at these events through creativity and make new friends.
[00:23:31.720 --> 00:23:33.640] And so that's been really amazing.
[00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:36.520] So that's sort of the physical piece.
[00:23:36.520 --> 00:23:39.800] And then I also started doing these play breaks.
[00:23:39.800 --> 00:23:42.760] So I do them almost every week.
[00:23:42.760 --> 00:23:45.240] It's a 30-minute guided play break.
[00:23:45.240 --> 00:23:49.880] Basically, I think most of us are pretty crap at taking breaks.
[00:23:49.880 --> 00:24:00.680] When we take a break, it's like scroll, usually scrolling or, you know, maybe we'll take a walk, but I think most people don't even do that.
[00:24:01.000 --> 00:24:08.280] And we don't do things that actually like nurture us and give us, you know, and like create that break space.
[00:24:08.280 --> 00:24:18.680] So I've started doing these play breaks once a week where I guide people through a 30-minute series of like quick entry-level play activities.
[00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:29.800] So I do some, like I do word play for confidence, I do drawing for peace and calm, I do dance for waking up creativity, storytelling for connection.
[00:24:29.800 --> 00:24:41.160] So I have a whole like roster of different ones that I've done, but that's sort of my most regular offering right now is, and it's helping me to build out essentially a curriculum.
[00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:51.440] Like I was thinking about how do I create like the soul cycle or peloton of play, like where you know the format and you feel, you know, you feel like confident and safe within that.
[00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:59.520] And then within that, different things can switch out, like the theme, the music, the creative medium.
[00:24:59.680 --> 00:25:00.800] So I've been doing that.
[00:25:00.800 --> 00:25:17.920] And then I've been experimenting with doing some physical products, which ultimately I really want to create workbooks and play kits that help people to explore their creativity by themselves, but also with the people in their community and in their friend group.
[00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:20.400] So I've been experimenting a little bit with that.
[00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:25.760] I haven't released anything for sale there yet, but I've been at the events that I've been doing.
[00:25:25.760 --> 00:25:30.080] I've demoed different products.
[00:25:30.080 --> 00:25:32.880] So that's what I've been playing with now.
[00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:45.200] And the truth is, like, you know, you can think that you're really sure about what you're launching with, but the process is always like essentially what I'm going through.
[00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:48.960] It's just like, I guess I'm going into it like really eyes open.
[00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:57.280] Like I could, I could go in and say, like, I'm doing this, and then, you know, and then realize that what I'm doing is not, you know, going to work.
[00:25:57.280 --> 00:26:04.720] I mean, when we launched Refinery, actually, we launched and we got press on our, you know, on our first day of launch.
[00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:08.640] And we had, you know, I think 5,000 visitors at the time.
[00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:15.200] And then three days later, we realized that like what we launched with was not going to work and we had to start over.
[00:26:15.520 --> 00:26:33.400] So, you know, I think I'm just very used to the process being iterative, and I'm comfortable with the fact that, like, even if I pretend that I know, I don't know, I'm not going to know until I do it and I find out what resonates with people and I see what works.
[00:26:34.200 --> 00:26:34.840] Absolutely.
[00:26:29.520 --> 00:26:35.160] I love that.
[00:26:35.320 --> 00:26:39.400] And I think it's such an important message: to like, yeah, you've got to see what works.
[00:26:39.400 --> 00:26:41.080] You've got to see what people respond to.
[00:26:41.080 --> 00:26:56.280] And I think you're uniquely positioned right now in a time where people are really looking for solutions that help the soul and make us feel, you know, more alive and more connected and happier because it is a tough time out there.
[00:26:56.280 --> 00:27:04.760] And the mental health struggles that we're having and the phone addiction struggles that we're having, like, this stuff is all so real and it's going to keep getting worse.
[00:27:04.760 --> 00:27:12.520] So I think people are really turning to meditation and things like what you're doing, like good for the soul stuff.
[00:27:12.520 --> 00:27:15.480] Like it's unique and it's amazing.
[00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:16.600] I'm excited for you.
[00:27:16.600 --> 00:27:17.640] I'm excited to see you.
[00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:18.120] Thank you.
[00:27:19.080 --> 00:27:19.720] Thank you.
[00:27:19.720 --> 00:27:21.400] I feel really excited about it.
[00:27:21.400 --> 00:27:24.360] I'm like, so feel so impatient with myself.
[00:27:24.360 --> 00:27:38.360] That's like one of my biggest challenges is just like, actually, Ira Glass, I like read this great thing by Ira Glass recently, who's the host and creator of This American Life, which is like one of the most successful storytelling podcasts.
[00:27:38.360 --> 00:27:45.720] But he talks about how like every creative person gets into creative work because they have taste.
[00:27:45.720 --> 00:27:59.000] But essentially, like what people don't talk about is like the years that you go through where you have a gap between like the vision that you have and the taste that you have and what you actually are able to like create and put out there.
[00:27:59.400 --> 00:28:08.120] So I kind of feel like I'm in that gap period with my own business where I'm like so passionate about the why and like everything that you just said.
[00:28:08.120 --> 00:28:25.520] Like, I'm so passionate about how play can help people with, yeah, feeling more connected, feeling more connected, like combating loneliness, how play can help people feel more alive in this time where we're so you know, chronically online, constantly scrolling.
[00:28:25.520 --> 00:28:38.320] Anyway, I feel very passionate about the space, and I have this vision for the work that I want to be doing, but I'm in like that very early stage of like not just not being there yet.
[00:28:38.320 --> 00:28:41.840] And so, that's like immensely challenging at the moment.
[00:28:41.840 --> 00:28:47.920] Yeah, I can see how that's immensely like challenging and frustrating because you want to be there already.
[00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:49.680] It's like you want to be 10 steps ahead.
[00:28:49.680 --> 00:29:06.160] But I guess the beauty of where you are is being where you are right now and being in that infancy and getting to enjoy that exploration phase before you kind of like understand what the main thing is that you're going to then just go guns blazing towards, you know?
[00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:07.120] Yeah, it's true.
[00:29:07.120 --> 00:29:08.000] Yeah, exactly.
[00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:18.960] It's like I have this, I have this note, like this post-it note on my bulletin board, and it says, Be generous, have fun, and enjoy the process.
[00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:21.120] The process is play.
[00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:23.840] I love that.
[00:29:23.840 --> 00:29:25.520] Everyone needs that reminder.
[00:29:25.520 --> 00:29:27.680] We all need that post-it note.
[00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:28.400] I know, right?
[00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:30.880] I have to just keep reminding myself.
[00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:42.080] Yeah, like I think we all get impatient with the vision that we have for our lives or our careers, whatever it is, and the gap between like where we are now and that.
[00:29:42.080 --> 00:29:51.920] But it is like so beautiful to actually just enjoy the process because also, so often, we actually get to a goal that we've worked so hard for.
[00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:58.080] And if you don't enjoy the process, then you often don't actually really enjoy the getting to the goal either.
[00:29:58.080 --> 00:29:58.880] Absolutely.
[00:29:58.880 --> 00:30:04.520] I feel like if you're not enjoying the process, you've kind of lost because the process is the day-to-day.
[00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:12.680] That's the journey, is the day-to-day of getting, you know, getting up and enjoying what you're doing and working towards the things.
[00:30:12.680 --> 00:30:14.920] It's not just about that goal.
[00:30:15.240 --> 00:30:16.520] Yeah, it's so true.
[00:30:16.520 --> 00:30:24.680] Yeah, like that's the meat of it, says the vegetarian.
[00:30:24.680 --> 00:30:25.720] Lol.
[00:30:26.040 --> 00:30:34.760] You were saying, like, you know, you're out there walking around, putting your ideas onto your phone, like talking to your phone, this kind of thing.
[00:30:34.760 --> 00:30:45.880] What are some of the kind of marketing concepts that you're like dreaming about or kind of having the works that you want to put out there, like grassroots, organic marketing initiatives?
[00:30:46.200 --> 00:31:08.520] Yeah, I mean, so far, everything has been pretty word of mouth, like kind of taking my group that I, you know, gathered during the pandemic for that I was dancing with, and that's sort of my, you know, initial group that has come over and been part of the play experiences and play breaks.
[00:31:08.520 --> 00:31:55.200] But I mean, my dream is to, my dream is to have this curriculum, like digital, like basically creating this digital curriculum, these digital playbreaks that people are joining from all over the world, and then have an annual, like our big moment will be like an annual creative camp where you can come and try all kinds of different amazing creative activities where we have a evening dress-up dance party and a karaoke cave, and it's just like this, this super fun place to come and try everything and be fully alive and with other people that are just ready to play and have fun.
[00:31:55.200 --> 00:32:01.040] And so like, yeah, my dream is that that's sort of like our biggest brand moment of the year is that camp.
[00:32:01.040 --> 00:32:11.600] And it's when like everyone comes together and just has like that super fun moment that like fuel, you know, kind of like fuels you and that you dream about all year.
[00:32:11.600 --> 00:32:26.000] And then, you know, throughout the year, we'll have just like our kind of more, our curriculum, our play workbooks and products that you can gather, you know, with your own friends and family and community with.
[00:32:26.320 --> 00:32:32.160] I mean, that's, that's like my, that's my dream is, is, you know, this amazing cool dream.
[00:32:32.160 --> 00:32:37.840] Yeah, this amazing play camp festival fun moment.
[00:32:37.840 --> 00:32:38.320] So.
[00:32:38.320 --> 00:32:42.720] So are we thinking like 2023 or 2024?
[00:32:42.720 --> 00:32:44.640] I'm like, sign me up.
[00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:45.440] I know.
[00:32:45.760 --> 00:32:48.640] Pre-launch those tickets, baby.
[00:32:48.640 --> 00:32:49.760] I know, right?
[00:32:50.080 --> 00:32:53.280] I've been, I've been like ruminating on the date.
[00:32:53.280 --> 00:33:02.160] I think it's most likely the end of 2023 for our play, our first, our first play camp.
[00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:13.120] I haven't fully named it yet, but yes, the play festival camp wild experience, wild weekend will happen at the end of 2023.
[00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:15.680] I'm manifesting it.
[00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:17.280] Hell yeah, manifest it.
[00:33:17.280 --> 00:33:18.240] You got to put it out there.
[00:33:18.240 --> 00:33:22.240] You got to start talking about this thing that's happening at the end of 2023.
[00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:25.200] And then you'll start aligning all of your goals to that.
[00:33:25.520 --> 00:33:26.720] It's very true.
[00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:32.440] I mean, I think it's interesting, like what you were saying before about enjoying the process, like enjoying the process.
[00:33:32.520 --> 00:33:41.000] And also, like, sometimes people talk about manifesting as though it's just like you're just saying it, but it's also manifesting is like what you do every day.
[00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:44.040] It's really actually, I think about it as your habits.
[00:33:44.040 --> 00:33:51.240] Like, what's the daily courageous action that you are taking in that direction of that thing?
[00:33:51.240 --> 00:33:55.000] Yeah, that goal that you're setting, that thing that you're trying to manifest.
[00:33:55.000 --> 00:34:08.120] So, yeah, for me, it's like every day, what is that daily courageous action that I'm taking that is putting me on the path towards my fun festival play camp dreams?
[00:34:08.120 --> 00:34:09.400] 100%.
[00:34:09.400 --> 00:34:10.680] Gosh, I'm excited.
[00:34:10.680 --> 00:34:11.640] I'm going to be there.
[00:34:11.640 --> 00:34:12.200] I'm going to be here.
[00:34:12.600 --> 00:34:15.480] Tell me in advance because I'm going to have to book my flights, but I'm coming.
[00:34:15.480 --> 00:34:16.600] Okay, okay.
[00:34:17.240 --> 00:34:18.280] I will let you know.
[00:34:19.560 --> 00:34:23.320] I'm putting you on the list.
[00:34:23.640 --> 00:34:24.360] Amazing.
[00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:26.040] I'm so excited.
[00:34:26.360 --> 00:34:45.240] When you think about the lessons you've learned throughout your career, you know, building a refinery 15 years and now coming into this new business, is there anything that you kind of wish you knew before you started that you can pass that wisdom on to anyone listening?
[00:34:45.240 --> 00:34:50.440] Any advice or any kind of guidance from a seasoned entrepreneur?
[00:34:50.440 --> 00:35:02.040] I mean, so much, but I think the biggest thing that I wish I knew and that I try to remember every day now is that there's no one right way.
[00:35:02.360 --> 00:35:20.880] I spent so much time, you know, kind of thinking that I was doing things the wrong way, or I was, or, you know, or the way, or like the qualities that I had, or my personality was like not correct for what I wanted to create.
[00:35:21.120 --> 00:35:31.600] And, you know, I just think I lost a lot of time and energy fixating on like what the right, what the right way to do things was.
[00:35:31.600 --> 00:35:41.840] Or, yeah, I just, I, I feel like just knowing that there's no one, there's no one right way, and there's no, like, really just embracing.
[00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:44.800] Sorry, I feel like I'm not articulating this very well.
[00:35:44.800 --> 00:35:46.720] No, I totally get what you mean.
[00:35:46.720 --> 00:35:48.480] I totally get it.
[00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:56.960] I think we all look at other people and we think like that person has it figured out and I need to be doing this blueprint or these steps to get there.
[00:35:56.960 --> 00:36:04.640] But actually, like, we're all just out here every day, kind of just going with the flow and hustling to figure it out.
[00:36:04.640 --> 00:36:05.040] Totally.
[00:36:05.200 --> 00:36:06.080] And that's the right way.
[00:36:06.080 --> 00:36:07.280] It's the right way for you.
[00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:12.960] And it's the right way for like your process of getting there, of getting to your goals.
[00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:14.160] Yes, exactly.
[00:36:14.160 --> 00:36:16.800] Yeah, there's no, there's no one right way.
[00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:25.360] And, you know, basically, if as long as you're taking courageous action every day towards your goals, like that is the right way.
[00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:33.920] Like what is the next right thing for you, for your business, and feeling like secure in that, I think is really powerful.
[00:36:33.920 --> 00:36:38.160] I mean, I have so much other advice I would give.
[00:36:38.160 --> 00:37:03.800] You know, I think it's so important to think about, you know, think about anyone that you hire, that you partner with, like as a partner, and knowing that that is a two-way, that is a two-way street, you know, whether even with investors, I think so often we think like that the investor, you know, we kind of shift the power in an investor relationship off of ourselves.
[00:37:03.800 --> 00:37:14.360] And it, you truly need to like that person needs to be fueling you and connect, you need to be connecting with them like on a lot of different levels.
[00:37:14.360 --> 00:37:19.880] It needs to be like really, truly a partnership for it to work out for everyone involved.
[00:37:19.880 --> 00:37:23.320] And I think, so I think that's really important as well.
[00:37:23.320 --> 00:37:24.760] Amazing advice.
[00:37:24.760 --> 00:37:26.840] Thank you for sharing.
[00:37:26.840 --> 00:37:33.000] Yeah, I feel like, I don't know why, but I feel like I'm not, I don't have good advice today, but that's okay.
[00:37:33.320 --> 00:37:34.520] That's great advice.
[00:37:34.520 --> 00:37:35.160] What do you mean?
[00:37:35.560 --> 00:37:37.240] You've just hit us with two bangers.
[00:37:37.240 --> 00:37:38.040] I love it.
[00:37:38.040 --> 00:37:39.400] Okay, okay, okay, good.
[00:37:39.400 --> 00:37:40.200] All right.
[00:37:40.840 --> 00:37:42.920] Gosh, don't hate on yourself there.
[00:37:42.920 --> 00:37:44.600] You're doing some really good stuff.
[00:37:44.600 --> 00:37:47.160] Oh, I have one other piece of advice.
[00:37:47.160 --> 00:37:47.640] Great.
[00:37:47.640 --> 00:37:48.760] Let's hear it.
[00:37:48.760 --> 00:37:52.040] My other piece of advice is: play is productive.
[00:37:52.040 --> 00:37:55.080] It's also, you know, starting a business is a long game.
[00:37:55.080 --> 00:38:00.680] I went through so many periods of burnout because I wasn't putting fuel back into the tank.
[00:38:00.680 --> 00:38:04.280] I was giving everything to my business and I was losing perspective.
[00:38:04.280 --> 00:38:12.600] And I was also not accessing my creativity, my resilience, my resourcefulness as a result.
[00:38:12.600 --> 00:38:25.640] So I do think that it is so important to prioritize things that bring you joy, that refill you so that you have the longevity and the grit to continue with your business.
[00:38:25.640 --> 00:38:36.280] So prioritize yourself, prioritize play, and know that play and self-care are extremely productive.
[00:38:36.920 --> 00:38:37.720] I love that.
[00:38:37.720 --> 00:38:39.080] That's an important one.
[00:38:39.080 --> 00:38:41.160] That's when we all need more.
[00:38:41.320 --> 00:38:42.040] Yes.
[00:38:42.440 --> 00:38:43.720] We need to hear that more.
[00:38:43.720 --> 00:38:44.440] Yeah, it's true.
[00:38:44.440 --> 00:39:05.680] And also, I mean, this is something I didn't practice until much more recently, but I have really found that self-compassion is so important to building resilience and building like the capacity to show up daily and be courageous, be creative.
[00:39:05.920 --> 00:39:12.000] But for so long, I believed that self-criticism was what made me good.
[00:39:12.320 --> 00:39:23.680] So I just wrote, like, I just, you know, was my harshest, my harshest critic, and just my inner voice and my dialogue with myself was so destructive.
[00:39:23.680 --> 00:39:37.680] And it wasn't until pretty recently, basically when I became a mom, I realized like, if I want to teach my daughter to love herself, I need to work on like my relationship with myself and starting with how I talk to myself.
[00:39:37.680 --> 00:39:45.120] And so since she was born, I started this practice of self-compassion where I write myself like notes in the morning.
[00:39:45.120 --> 00:40:02.640] And I just have found that working on self-compass, like building self-compassion has just given me so much more, more of like a steady base of confidence and of resilience than I had before.
[00:40:03.280 --> 00:40:14.160] So I think a lot of people think self-compassion makes us unaccountable or weak or like we're not gonna go after our goals if we are compassionate to ourselves.
[00:40:14.160 --> 00:40:16.320] But actually the research shows it's the opposite.
[00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:28.960] And my experience has been the opposite: that it's like makes me so much sturdier when I actually show up with compassion for myself, and it allows me to be more compassionate to other people as well.
[00:40:28.960 --> 00:40:31.400] Wow, that's so interesting.
[00:40:31.400 --> 00:40:36.120] I always struggle with these things for myself because, like, I'll get a pen and paper.
[00:40:36.120 --> 00:40:38.040] It's the same with journaling that I struggle with.
[00:40:38.040 --> 00:40:40.280] It's like, what do you actually write?
[00:40:40.280 --> 00:40:42.680] What are you actually writing on that piece of paper?
[00:40:42.680 --> 00:40:44.360] Like, what's an example?
[00:40:44.360 --> 00:40:50.360] So, an example could be like, I call myself sweet pea usually because that's like a childhood nickname.
[00:40:50.360 --> 00:40:52.760] So, I'll say, good morning, sweet Pea.
[00:40:52.760 --> 00:40:55.640] Oof, last night was a doozy.
[00:40:55.640 --> 00:41:03.560] Viva woke up, Viva woke, Viva woke up three times, and this morning you are feeling like crap.
[00:41:03.560 --> 00:41:15.480] You know, have, you know, have a have a coffee, go for a walk, and know that if today is not your best day, you know why.
[00:41:15.800 --> 00:41:23.480] You know, I'll do like stuff like that, or I'll be like, check three things, you know, check three things off your to-do list and call it a great day.
[00:41:23.480 --> 00:41:32.680] So, it's kind of like I try and I try and just first start with like checking in with myself, like, what's up?
[00:41:32.680 --> 00:41:34.040] Like, sometimes they're really positive.
[00:41:34.040 --> 00:41:35.800] It's like, you're so excited today.
[00:41:35.800 --> 00:41:40.600] Like, you know, so it's like checking in, how, how am I doing?
[00:41:40.600 --> 00:41:42.680] Then it's meeting myself with compassion.
[00:41:42.680 --> 00:41:52.200] So, it's basically just like acknowledging however I'm feeling without judgment and then giving myself like a little advice as though it was coming from a loved one.
[00:41:52.200 --> 00:41:55.160] So, and I can decide what I need to hear.
[00:41:55.480 --> 00:42:06.600] And it's, it's really helpful because I also, I also realize how often I might be waiting for someone else to validate me or, you know, commiserate with me.
[00:42:06.600 --> 00:42:09.480] And, and often there's like, who else would do that?
[00:42:09.480 --> 00:42:13.800] You know, who else like knows every single little thing that you go through?
[00:42:13.800 --> 00:42:27.600] So it's also very empowering to just be able to like affirm myself or you know have compassion for myself because I can then like kind of move through it.
[00:42:27.600 --> 00:42:45.360] It's like being like your most cherished cheerleader who's like, you know, truly got your back and truly understands and you're able to just like communicate to yourself and give yourself that high five that you need sometimes to keep going or a big cozy hug.
[00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:47.600] But yeah, writing.
[00:42:47.600 --> 00:42:48.640] I love that.
[00:42:48.640 --> 00:42:48.960] Yeah.
[00:42:48.960 --> 00:42:49.280] Cool.
[00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:53.920] Yeah, it's a very tender, like, it's a very tender exercise.
[00:42:53.920 --> 00:42:59.360] It feels weird at first, but I've gotten used to it and it's really nice.
[00:42:59.360 --> 00:43:01.120] Yeah, I'm gonna give that a try.
[00:43:01.120 --> 00:43:03.440] That sounds like a really beautiful practice.
[00:43:03.440 --> 00:43:04.320] I'm into it.
[00:43:04.320 --> 00:43:05.120] Thank you.
[00:43:05.120 --> 00:43:06.160] Great one.
[00:43:06.160 --> 00:43:06.880] Yeah.
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[00:43:38.160 --> 00:43:40.240] Hey, it's June here.
[00:43:40.240 --> 00:43:45.040] Thanks for listening to this amazing episode of the Female Startup Club podcast.
[00:43:45.040 --> 00:43:54.400] If you're a fan of the show and want even more of the good stuff, I'd recommend checking out femalestartupclub.com where you can subscribe to our free newsletter.
[00:43:54.400 --> 00:44:02.600] We send it out weekly covering female founder business news, insights and learnings in D2C, and interesting business resources.
[00:44:02.600 --> 00:44:13.400] And if you're a founder building an e-commerce brand, you can join our private network of entrepreneurs called Hype Club at femalestartupclub.com forward slash hypeclub.
[00:44:13.400 --> 00:44:25.080] We have guests from the show joining us for intimate ask-me-anythings, expert workshops, and a group of totally amazing, like-minded women building the future of D2C brands.
[00:44:25.080 --> 00:44:31.240] As always, please do subscribe, rate, and review the show, and post your favorite episodes to Instagram stories.
[00:44:31.240 --> 00:44:34.280] I am beyond grateful when you do that.

Prompt 2: Key Takeaways

Now please extract the key takeaways from the transcript content I provided.

Extract the most important key takeaways from this part of the conversation. Use a single sentence statement (the key takeaway) rather than milquetoast descriptions like "the hosts discuss...". 

Limit the key takeaways to a maximum of 3. The key takeaways should be insightful and knowledge-additive. 

IMPORTANT: Return ONLY valid JSON, no explanations or markdown. Ensure:
- All strings are properly quoted and escaped
- No trailing commas
- All braces and brackets are balanced
Format: {"key_takeaways": ["takeaway 1", "takeaway 2"]}

Prompt 3: Segments

Now identify 2-4 distinct topical segments from this part of the conversation.

For each segment, identify:
- Descriptive title (3-6 words)  
- START timestamp when this topic begins (HH:MM:SS format)
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Most important Key takeaway from that segment. Key takeaway must be specific and knowledge-additive.
- Brief summary of the discussion

IMPORTANT: The timestamp should mark when the topic/segment STARTS, not a range. Look for topic transitions and conversation shifts.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted, no trailing commas:
{
  "segments": [
    {
      "segment_title": "Topic Discussion", 
      "timestamp": "01:15:30",
      "key_takeaway": "main point from this segment",
      "segment_summary": "brief description of what was discussed"
    }
  ]
}

Timestamp format: HH:MM:SS (e.g., 00:05:30, 01:22:45) marking the START of each segment.

Prompt 4: Media Mentions

Now scan the transcript content I provided for ACTUAL mentions of specific media titles:

Find explicit mentions of:
- Books (with specific titles)
- Movies (with specific titles)  
- TV Shows (with specific titles)
- Music/Songs (with specific titles)

DO NOT include:
- Websites, URLs, or web services
- Other podcasts or podcast names

IMPORTANT: 
- Only include items explicitly mentioned by name. Do not invent titles.
- Valid categories are: "Book", "Movie", "TV Show", "Music"
- Include the exact phrase where each item was mentioned
- Find the nearest proximate timestamp where it appears in the conversation
- THE TIMESTAMP OF THE MEDIA MENTION IS IMPORTANT - DO NOT INVENT TIMESTAMPS AND DO NOT MISATTRIBUTE TIMESTAMPS
- Double check that the timestamp is accurate - a timestamp will NEVER be greater than the total length of the audio
- Timestamps are given as ranges, e.g. 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.720. Use the EARLIER of the 2 timestamps in the range.

Return ONLY valid JSON. Ensure all strings are properly quoted and escaped, no trailing commas:
{
  "media_mentions": [
    {
      "title": "Exact Title as Mentioned",
      "category": "Book",
      "author_artist": "N/A",
      "context": "Brief context of why it was mentioned",
      "context_phrase": "The exact sentence or phrase where it was mentioned",
      "timestamp": "estimated time like 01:15:30"
    }
  ]
}

If no media is mentioned, return: {"media_mentions": []}

Full Transcript

[00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:04.640] This is Piera Gelardi for Female Startup Club.
[00:00:12.640 --> 00:00:14.640] Hello and welcome back to the show.
[00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:18.560] It's Dune here, your host and hype girl.
[00:00:18.560 --> 00:00:26.320] Today I'm having a chat with the wonderful Piera Gelati, who you might recognize as the co-founder of Refinery 29.
[00:00:26.320 --> 00:00:32.160] But today we're talking all the things about her new venture, Wild Things World.
[00:00:32.160 --> 00:00:35.440] And it is a total cracker.
[00:00:35.440 --> 00:00:40.960] Piera is one of those people that radiates joy and good vibes.
[00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:46.800] And we talked a lot about her lessons learned throughout her 15 years of building Refinery 29.
[00:00:47.120 --> 00:00:56.480] We also talk about her bootstrapped pathway following her passion with Wild Things World and why we should all find our inner creative in the world.
[00:00:56.480 --> 00:01:03.600] And stick around to the end of the six quick questions because she shares some really wild stories at the end.
[00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:13.360] If you love this episode, please let me know by posting a screenshot to Instagram stories, tagging us, or dropping to my DMs for a chat at Dune Rochine.
[00:01:13.360 --> 00:01:14.880] Let's get into this episode.
[00:01:14.880 --> 00:01:18.480] This is Piera for Female Startup Club.
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[00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:51.360] To Covis, Forever West.
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[00:01:59.800 --> 00:02:03.880] And here's something to celebrate: when you start today, your first fragrance is free.
[00:01:59.440 --> 00:02:06.840] It's the perfect time to discover why everyone's switching to Pura.
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[00:02:15.720 --> 00:02:19.480] ACAST powers the world's best podcasts.
[00:02:19.480 --> 00:02:21.720] Here's the show that we recommend.
[00:02:24.280 --> 00:02:25.480] I'm Ethan Cher.
[00:02:25.480 --> 00:02:26.760] And I'm Brock Charlelli.
[00:02:26.760 --> 00:02:28.200] We played best friends on the middle.
[00:02:28.200 --> 00:02:29.800] And became best friends in real life.
[00:02:29.800 --> 00:02:32.280] We're here to rewatch The Middle with all of you.
[00:02:32.280 --> 00:02:37.720] Each week, we'll recap an episode with behind-the-scenes stories, guest interviews, and what we think now, many years later.
[00:02:37.720 --> 00:02:41.320] There's a lot to dive into, so let's get to middling.
[00:02:48.360 --> 00:02:54.120] ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere.
[00:02:54.120 --> 00:02:56.040] Acast.com.
[00:02:58.920 --> 00:02:59.880] Piera!
[00:02:59.880 --> 00:03:03.160] Hi, welcome to the Female Startup Club podcast.
[00:03:03.160 --> 00:03:04.360] Thanks for having me.
[00:03:04.360 --> 00:03:05.880] How are you going over there?
[00:03:06.200 --> 00:03:07.480] Doing pretty well.
[00:03:07.480 --> 00:03:10.200] Slightly sleep-depressed, but otherwise good.
[00:03:11.160 --> 00:03:12.600] Aren't we all?
[00:03:12.920 --> 00:03:14.280] Aren't we all?
[00:03:15.240 --> 00:03:17.480] I'm so excited to be learning from you today.
[00:03:17.480 --> 00:03:21.960] I'm excited to be talking about all things creativity, brand.
[00:03:21.960 --> 00:03:29.160] I'm excited to talk about how creativity impacts the human experience and everything that you've been up to lately.
[00:03:29.160 --> 00:03:30.920] Yeah, me too.
[00:03:32.520 --> 00:03:44.280] I feel like most people probably know you as Piera, co-founder of Refinery 29, but maybe not so much as Piera, founder of Wild Things World.
[00:03:44.280 --> 00:03:49.920] So I'd love for you to give us a little bit of an introduction into what Wild Things World is.
[00:03:50.240 --> 00:03:51.200] Yeah.
[00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:51.440] Yeah.
[00:03:51.680 --> 00:03:55.440] For 15 years, I was with Piera from Refinery 29.
[00:03:55.440 --> 00:03:57.120] That was like how people introduced me.
[00:03:57.120 --> 00:04:05.840] So it's been an interesting identity shift, you know, moving into this new phase of life and deciding to start a new business.
[00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:11.840] And yeah, so I started my business, Wild Things World, to bring more play into the everyday.
[00:04:11.840 --> 00:04:19.040] You know, play has all these incredible superpowers for helping us to feel more connected to ourselves, to other people.
[00:04:19.040 --> 00:04:21.120] It helps reduce stress.
[00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:24.480] It is incredible for creativity and innovation.
[00:04:24.480 --> 00:04:27.280] And it can even make us live longer.
[00:04:27.280 --> 00:04:36.960] But in adulthood, we deprioritize play and it just kind of becomes like the last thing on our list of, you know, things to do.
[00:04:37.280 --> 00:04:46.320] And so I really want to celebrate like that power of play and bring more play into people's lives through my new company, Wild Things World, which I just started.
[00:04:46.320 --> 00:04:47.840] I mean, it's only a few months old.
[00:04:47.840 --> 00:04:52.720] So you're catching me like in the baby, baby stages of it.
[00:04:52.720 --> 00:04:53.840] It's in the early days.
[00:04:53.840 --> 00:04:54.240] I love it.
[00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:55.040] Early days.
[00:04:55.680 --> 00:04:57.520] We're seeing it from the beginning here.
[00:04:57.520 --> 00:05:01.600] We're going to have to get you back on two years down the track.
[00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:02.800] Definitely.
[00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:16.880] It's interesting because I've watched your journey over the last couple of years on Instagram and I've always loved, you know, the videos of you dancing with your daughter and you seem to have so much fun online.
[00:05:16.880 --> 00:05:26.800] How did you kind of like, were you always thinking about Wild Things World in the background while you were kind of creating these fun moments or was this just like this is just natural you?
[00:05:26.800 --> 00:05:28.400] You've always been like this.
[00:05:28.400 --> 00:05:30.000] Like what's it, what's it like?
[00:05:30.840 --> 00:05:33.080] I wish I was dancing.
[00:05:33.720 --> 00:05:35.560] Well I highly recommend.
[00:05:35.560 --> 00:05:39.320] I think we could all use more dancing in our lives, myself included.
[00:05:40.040 --> 00:05:46.840] You know Wild Things World has has I mean, everyone that knows me well is like, oh, this is so you.
[00:05:46.840 --> 00:05:55.400] This is so obviously you're calling your path something that you would do because play has always been an important part of my life.
[00:05:55.400 --> 00:06:03.080] You know, as a leader at Refinery 29, play was a huge part of how I led creative teams and creative work.
[00:06:03.080 --> 00:06:08.440] I, you know, I built 29 rooms within Refinery 29 and that was a playground.
[00:06:08.440 --> 00:06:15.720] It was a funhouse for artists and consumers to come through and express themselves.
[00:06:15.720 --> 00:06:20.040] So play has always been an aspect of what I do.
[00:06:20.040 --> 00:06:27.000] And of course, being a parent, that has opened up my eyes to just this whole new realm of play.
[00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:37.640] And I really, that's probably my favorite thing about parenting is that it gives me that much more permission to play and explore and let my inner child come out.
[00:06:37.960 --> 00:06:41.640] So yeah, I mean, all of those things really led me to create Wild Things World.
[00:06:41.640 --> 00:06:57.400] And then also during the pandemic, like when I left Refinery at the end of 2020, I felt like one, I needed some kind of creative bridge to take me from this 15-year chapter of my life to this terrifying unknown future.
[00:06:57.400 --> 00:07:06.200] I mean, terrifying and exciting, but you know, definitely scary to close a chapter like that and not know what's next.
[00:07:06.520 --> 00:07:15.000] So, in that moment, I actually got trained in this cathartic form of dance that my friend Debbie Atiyah started called Dancer System.
[00:07:16.400 --> 00:07:22.880] And I didn't think I was gonna teach, but I got through a training and got a teacher training.
[00:07:22.880 --> 00:07:27.760] And at the end of it, I decided to open it up to my Instagram community, friends, and family.
[00:07:27.760 --> 00:07:36.080] And all of a sudden, I had thousands of people around the world that took that signed up to take my dance class.
[00:07:36.080 --> 00:07:47.760] And so, I taught people, and I say taught loosely, I really just like guided these dance parties throughout the pandemic in this really cathartic, emotive form of dance.
[00:07:47.760 --> 00:08:03.920] And that very much like solidified for me the need to create space for people and permission for people to play because what came back from teaching dancer system during the pandemic was just so moving and powerful.
[00:08:03.920 --> 00:08:27.280] It was one of the most like meaningful things I've ever done in my life: just showing up week after week, you know, people popping in from all over the place and hearing how that helped their mental, you know, people's mental health, how it connected them to loved ones that were in other places where they couldn't physically be together, how it helped people with their creativity with feeling unstuck.
[00:08:27.280 --> 00:08:36.000] So, yeah, there's been like many different aspects, like many different experiences that really led me to creating Wild Things World.
[00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:37.600] Oh my gosh, that's amazing.
[00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:44.560] I think I remember actually during the pandemic, you were doing like disco kind of vibes on your Instagram.
[00:08:44.560 --> 00:08:46.560] Yeah, I loved it.
[00:08:46.560 --> 00:08:48.480] Yeah, I'm just thinking back now.
[00:08:48.480 --> 00:08:49.600] I do remember those.
[00:08:49.600 --> 00:08:50.320] That was cool.
[00:08:50.360 --> 00:09:03.640] Oh, it was just elaborating on dance, but yeah, it's-I mean, the amazing thing about Dancer System 2 is that it's not, you know, it's not choreographed in a way of like, and a one, two, three, and we're all doing the same dance move perfectly.
[00:09:03.880 --> 00:09:07.960] It's very loose, very playful, cathartic.
[00:09:07.960 --> 00:09:16.280] So it's like, you know, stomp your feet and scream, like make a monster face, you know, lick your paws and like twirl your kitty cat tail.
[00:09:16.360 --> 00:09:30.360] So it's just like these, you know, all these fun prompts that I think just gave people a lot of permission to, you know, be wild and explore different aspects of themselves and feel free and be creative and have fun.
[00:09:30.360 --> 00:09:30.760] Yeah.
[00:09:31.080 --> 00:09:32.440] Gosh, amazing.
[00:09:32.440 --> 00:09:33.880] That's so cool.
[00:09:33.880 --> 00:09:45.080] So cool that that's how it kind of was born out of this, like, you know, you take this dance class, you experience this transformational thing, you start offering it to people at a time when people really need it.
[00:09:45.080 --> 00:09:49.480] And then this leads to being like, yeah, this is, how do I turn this into a business?
[00:09:49.480 --> 00:10:01.160] How can I monetize this to like support, you know, what I'm doing here, but also impact people and impact mental health, which is obviously such a big issue in the world right now.
[00:10:01.160 --> 00:10:01.640] Yeah.
[00:10:01.640 --> 00:10:03.240] More than ever.
[00:10:03.560 --> 00:10:19.960] I want to kind of, I feel like I'm getting ahead, I'm getting too much into Wild Things World, but I want to stay around refinery for a hot second and talk about, you know, you as a creative leader and especially around like what you were doing to lead people creatively and what you were doing with 29 rooms.
[00:10:19.960 --> 00:10:29.080] I'd love to know kind of how you were bringing that creativity into the office and you know managing big teams of people.
[00:10:29.400 --> 00:10:36.840] Yeah, I mean, I had a lot of different ways that I did that, that I led people creatively, but play was a huge part of it.
[00:10:36.840 --> 00:10:52.080] I think, you know, so often people, when they're doing a brainstorm, for example, it's the default for a brainstorm is just like you sit down in a room, you talk about what the problem is, and then you say, okay, what ideas do you have?
[00:10:52.400 --> 00:10:56.720] And that process is so...
[00:10:56.800 --> 00:11:02.320] puts so much pressure on people and it doesn't warm people up to be creative.
[00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:08.800] I think, you know, I've seen that in so many instances, you know, that that is kind of the default.
[00:11:08.800 --> 00:11:19.680] And there's this amazing book, Priya Parker, The Art of Gathering, that I read, I guess I read it last year, but she talks so much about in it, it's about bringing people together.
[00:11:19.680 --> 00:11:30.800] It doesn't, I don't think she addresses brainstorming, but I do think it's applicable because, you know, so often we kind of just go to this default of how something is done.
[00:11:30.800 --> 00:11:38.960] And there's not a lot of consideration in terms of how we're setting the intention for the space, how we're bringing people together.
[00:11:38.960 --> 00:11:43.360] And in my role as a creative leader, I always thought of myself as the host.
[00:11:43.680 --> 00:11:55.520] You know, early in refinery, I was the creator and I was making things, you know, I was making things and I was very in the in the creative process and like of actually making.
[00:11:55.520 --> 00:12:06.160] And then over time, as I started to manage people, my job shifted from, you know, from that to like helping other people have their best creative ideas.
[00:12:06.160 --> 00:12:08.240] And so to me, that role was the host.
[00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:14.480] How do I make it clear what it is that we are here to do?
[00:12:14.800 --> 00:12:22.240] How do I make it clear, you know, the intentions behind that, the values behind that, the goals that we're trying to hit?
[00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:30.000] And how do I create the space where people feel comfortable and safe enough to share ideas, to share bad ideas?
[00:12:30.280 --> 00:12:50.040] I mean, I think the most generous thing that you can do in a brainstorm is to share a bad idea because when you have that environment where people feel comfortable enough to share something that is half-baked or far-fetched or you know that they might even think is a bad idea, it, you know, it all, everyone builds on each other.
[00:12:50.040 --> 00:13:08.440] So, so often, what happens, and I've seen this pattern happen so many times, where it's like, you know, a free-wheeling brainstorm, someone says something ridiculous, everyone laughs, and then boom, that amazing moment of brilliance, like someone comes out with that fantastic idea.
[00:13:08.440 --> 00:13:15.400] And that was because the person before them said the funny thing or the weird thing, and it triggered something.
[00:13:15.400 --> 00:13:19.800] So, I often, as a creative leader, thought about how do I create that space?
[00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:24.680] How do I warm people up with a game or an improv thing?
[00:13:24.680 --> 00:13:28.840] How do I, as the leader, you know, share the bad ideas?
[00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:41.320] How do I show that I'm just as silly and imperfect as everyone else so that I can create that type of environment for everyone else in the room?
[00:13:41.480 --> 00:13:43.640] So, that was always really important to me.
[00:13:43.640 --> 00:13:59.560] And just, yeah, being really thoughtful about how to structure the creative process to get, you know, to bring the ideas out of everyone, help people build on their ideas and not feel like I, as the leader, had to have the best idea in the room.
[00:13:59.560 --> 00:14:06.120] That my job was to nurture the ideas in the room so that our collective idea could be the best.
[00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:08.360] I love that.
[00:14:08.360 --> 00:14:09.800] I love that.
[00:14:09.800 --> 00:14:14.400] For anyone like listening right now who's listening to that, being like, Wow, that's amazing.
[00:14:13.960 --> 00:14:17.120] But, but you know, you're a big team and you had a lot of people in a room.
[00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:28.000] And maybe some people listening are solo entrepreneurs or a small team of two or in working with their husband or working with their partner.
[00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:39.200] What are some tips or frameworks that you could give for those people to get creative within themselves when they're kind of entering that brainstorm moment of like, oh, I need to come up with some marketing campaigns.
[00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:45.200] I'm going to sit down with my notepad and pen and then I'm going to get stuck and I'm going to be like, damn, I've got no ideas.
[00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:45.760] Yeah.
[00:14:46.400 --> 00:14:54.480] Well, I mean, I think the main thing is that, yeah, whether you're doing that with a big team of people or by yourself or with a partner, it still is the same thing.
[00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:58.480] Like you have to create the conditions for creativity.
[00:14:58.480 --> 00:15:00.800] So those conditions are different for everyone.
[00:15:00.800 --> 00:15:03.120] So I think the first thing is self-awareness.
[00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:16.480] Like so often we have that moment where we sit down and we try and like push, you know, ideas out of our brain with no warm-up, with no, you know, like, you know, with a lot of pressure.
[00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:18.720] And it doesn't, and it doesn't happen.
[00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:20.880] You know, I mean, I'm guilty of it too.
[00:15:21.520 --> 00:15:26.720] So I think what's really important is just remembering that you have to create those conditions for yourself.
[00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:30.800] Like, how do you, how do you be a good host to yourself and your own creativity?
[00:15:30.800 --> 00:15:33.120] So maybe that is doing a warm-up.
[00:15:33.120 --> 00:15:38.560] Maybe you take a one-minute dance break before you brainstorm, or maybe you take a walk.
[00:15:38.880 --> 00:15:43.520] I mean, I do this really hilarious thing now that I'm working much more solo.
[00:15:43.520 --> 00:15:48.880] I have a transcription app and I walk around the neighborhood and I talk to myself.
[00:15:49.120 --> 00:16:03.000] Like, I mean, I think people think I'm on a call, but yeah, I talk, I mean, I talk to myself because I've realized that talking ideas out is one of the ways that I come up with the best ideas, but I don't have someone to talk to every day now.
[00:15:59.680 --> 00:16:05.480] So I walk around and talk to myself.
[00:16:05.800 --> 00:16:10.680] So I think it's also just like, yeah, just giving yourself like fun challenges too.
[00:16:10.680 --> 00:16:13.720] Like maybe you say, okay, I'm going to write the headline.
[00:16:13.720 --> 00:16:18.200] I'm going to write the headline to like the press article that I would want to be written about this.
[00:16:18.200 --> 00:16:21.640] And I'm going to give myself a two-minute timer to do it.
[00:16:21.640 --> 00:16:24.360] And like, try to have fun, you know, try to have fun with it.
[00:16:24.360 --> 00:16:33.400] And I just, I think like challenges, like giving yourself like breaks and knowing what, you know, knowing what works for your creativity.
[00:16:33.400 --> 00:16:38.600] So often we do fixate on that moment of deficit where we don't have an idea.
[00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:48.280] But if we can also notice when we had great ideas, like what was happening for us in that moment and how do we replicate that for ourselves, that is super powerful.
[00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:49.560] Yeah.
[00:16:49.800 --> 00:16:59.560] I'm like that kind of person that has like the idea in the shower or the middle of the night and they need to get into that habit of writing it down because I fall asleep and then I'll wake up or whatever it is.
[00:16:59.560 --> 00:17:02.440] I move activities and then I'm like, oh, I forget that idea.
[00:17:02.440 --> 00:17:09.400] Like I need to be more in tune to capturing that, putting it somewhere and then being like, okay, it's stored.
[00:17:09.400 --> 00:17:12.760] I can move on and then come back to it and kind of flesh it out.
[00:17:12.760 --> 00:17:13.240] Yeah.
[00:17:13.560 --> 00:17:13.880] Yeah.
[00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:21.880] Before I had a child, I always like, it was so annoying, but my creative, my creativity would wake up at 3:30 in the morning.
[00:17:22.200 --> 00:17:35.400] And I, you know, first I would always try and go back to sleep, but then I realized like, oh, I'm not going to be able to go back to sleep because I'm going to be going to have an idea and then I'm going to be just like laying there praying that I don't forget it.
[00:17:35.400 --> 00:17:43.640] So I would, yeah, there was like a period where I would like routinely wake up at 3:30 and write for like 30 minutes, like whatever was in my brain.
[00:17:43.640 --> 00:17:46.160] And I got a lot of ideas at that time.
[00:17:46.400 --> 00:18:04.960] So, yeah, sometimes it's even if your process is super annoying to you and like not the way you want it to be, sometimes you just have to basically work with you know, work with your creativity and be a partner to it and find a way to, yeah, capture the ideas whenever they come to you.
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[00:19:03.360 --> 00:19:07.200] So at some point, you've left Refinery 29.
[00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:09.520] You're doing these danceicisms.
[00:19:09.520 --> 00:19:10.480] Dancicisms?
[00:19:10.880 --> 00:19:11.440] That's right.
[00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:11.840] Yeah.
[00:19:11.840 --> 00:19:12.960] Dancicisms.
[00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:14.320] You're having a lot of fun.
[00:19:14.320 --> 00:19:16.480] Thousands of people are connecting with you.
[00:19:16.480 --> 00:19:22.480] And you start to swell on this idea of building this into your next venture.
[00:19:22.800 --> 00:19:23.920] What's the vision?
[00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:24.960] What are you thinking?
[00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:27.200] Like, how does it work?
[00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:29.200] So, I really started with a why.
[00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:31.080] I mean, I was teaching dancersism.
[00:19:31.240 --> 00:19:39.000] I mean, there weren't thousands of people coming to each session, but like, cumulatively, throughout it, I had thousands of people join.
[00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:42.120] And yeah, I was teaching the dancer system.
[00:19:42.120 --> 00:19:51.160] And my next thing is within this world, within this realm of play and catharsis and creativity.
[00:19:51.160 --> 00:19:56.520] And I mean, I probably could have told you that in a way when I left Refinery.
[00:19:56.520 --> 00:20:00.200] Like, I knew I've always had that pull.
[00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:11.160] Like, you know, helping people tap into their creativity has always been something that is really important to me and really motivating for me and really joyful for me.
[00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:17.720] So, I, yeah, but as I was teaching, it became more and more clear that I wanted to do that.
[00:20:17.720 --> 00:20:19.560] And I really just started with the why.
[00:20:19.560 --> 00:20:21.800] I started with research.
[00:20:21.800 --> 00:20:34.840] I started just reading a lot of books about play and mental health, and you know, I mean, actually, like a huge range of different things, like the create, you know, the creative process.
[00:20:34.840 --> 00:20:42.360] And yeah, I started there and then I started working on like what is the why of this?
[00:20:42.360 --> 00:20:47.560] Like, and from there, I kept building.
[00:20:47.560 --> 00:20:55.640] But I decided to launch in the spring without actually like a business plan or a clear what.
[00:20:55.640 --> 00:21:01.000] Like, I just launched with like, this is this is the ethos.
[00:21:01.320 --> 00:21:13.640] And I decided I was going to do that because I felt like if I was going to create this brand that was all about helping people to play, play requires so much vulnerability.
[00:21:13.640 --> 00:21:17.200] It requires us to, it's the antithesis of perfection.
[00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:20.480] It's messy, it's imperfect, it's unsure.
[00:21:20.800 --> 00:21:26.480] And so I realized if I was going to create that business, then I had to walk that walk.
[00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:44.240] And the true, like, it was much more true to this business and this brand that I want to create to release it like without really any clue of what it was going to be versus holding on to it until I felt certain.
[00:21:44.560 --> 00:21:48.560] So yeah, basically, like I put it out there and I'm figuring it out.
[00:21:48.560 --> 00:21:56.480] I mean, we're all, we all figure things out as we go along, but I think this is more than I probably would have with anything else.
[00:21:56.480 --> 00:22:00.480] I just decided that this is the right way to do this.
[00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:08.160] It might not be the right way to do other things, but this project is all about the messy process.
[00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:24.160] And also, I felt like if I was going to lead this, I have to live it because that will help me to know how I, how to help other people to like get into that, to feel safe within that vulnerable space of play.
[00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:25.040] I agree.
[00:22:25.040 --> 00:22:37.120] And I think it sounds like, you know, you're approaching this as putting something out in the world and listening, like seeing what resonates with people, exploring different ideas instead of being like, nope, this is the product, like this is what it's going to be.
[00:22:37.120 --> 00:22:38.560] Like, here it is.
[00:22:38.560 --> 00:22:45.280] You're more like, okay, let's, let's go with the flow and like see what people like and want to engage with.
[00:22:45.280 --> 00:22:53.680] What are the kinds of kinds of activities that you're launching or trialing or exploring at the moment?
[00:22:53.680 --> 00:22:59.880] Yeah, so I started with doing in-person events.
[00:22:59.040 --> 00:23:05.560] Like that was the first thing that I got started with, and some as our own events and some in partnership.
[00:23:05.880 --> 00:23:20.520] I've been partnering a lot with my friend's mental health nonprofit called Half the Story, which is all about digital well-being and helping people understand their relationship with technology and also helping people connect offline.
[00:23:20.680 --> 00:23:31.720] So we've been doing some really amazing partnerships where I'm helping people to connect with each other at these events through creativity and make new friends.
[00:23:31.720 --> 00:23:33.640] And so that's been really amazing.
[00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:36.520] So that's sort of the physical piece.
[00:23:36.520 --> 00:23:39.800] And then I also started doing these play breaks.
[00:23:39.800 --> 00:23:42.760] So I do them almost every week.
[00:23:42.760 --> 00:23:45.240] It's a 30-minute guided play break.
[00:23:45.240 --> 00:23:49.880] Basically, I think most of us are pretty crap at taking breaks.
[00:23:49.880 --> 00:24:00.680] When we take a break, it's like scroll, usually scrolling or, you know, maybe we'll take a walk, but I think most people don't even do that.
[00:24:01.000 --> 00:24:08.280] And we don't do things that actually like nurture us and give us, you know, and like create that break space.
[00:24:08.280 --> 00:24:18.680] So I've started doing these play breaks once a week where I guide people through a 30-minute series of like quick entry-level play activities.
[00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:29.800] So I do some, like I do word play for confidence, I do drawing for peace and calm, I do dance for waking up creativity, storytelling for connection.
[00:24:29.800 --> 00:24:41.160] So I have a whole like roster of different ones that I've done, but that's sort of my most regular offering right now is, and it's helping me to build out essentially a curriculum.
[00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:51.440] Like I was thinking about how do I create like the soul cycle or peloton of play, like where you know the format and you feel, you know, you feel like confident and safe within that.
[00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:59.520] And then within that, different things can switch out, like the theme, the music, the creative medium.
[00:24:59.680 --> 00:25:00.800] So I've been doing that.
[00:25:00.800 --> 00:25:17.920] And then I've been experimenting with doing some physical products, which ultimately I really want to create workbooks and play kits that help people to explore their creativity by themselves, but also with the people in their community and in their friend group.
[00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:20.400] So I've been experimenting a little bit with that.
[00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:25.760] I haven't released anything for sale there yet, but I've been at the events that I've been doing.
[00:25:25.760 --> 00:25:30.080] I've demoed different products.
[00:25:30.080 --> 00:25:32.880] So that's what I've been playing with now.
[00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:45.200] And the truth is, like, you know, you can think that you're really sure about what you're launching with, but the process is always like essentially what I'm going through.
[00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:48.960] It's just like, I guess I'm going into it like really eyes open.
[00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:57.280] Like I could, I could go in and say, like, I'm doing this, and then, you know, and then realize that what I'm doing is not, you know, going to work.
[00:25:57.280 --> 00:26:04.720] I mean, when we launched Refinery, actually, we launched and we got press on our, you know, on our first day of launch.
[00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:08.640] And we had, you know, I think 5,000 visitors at the time.
[00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:15.200] And then three days later, we realized that like what we launched with was not going to work and we had to start over.
[00:26:15.520 --> 00:26:33.400] So, you know, I think I'm just very used to the process being iterative, and I'm comfortable with the fact that, like, even if I pretend that I know, I don't know, I'm not going to know until I do it and I find out what resonates with people and I see what works.
[00:26:34.200 --> 00:26:34.840] Absolutely.
[00:26:29.520 --> 00:26:35.160] I love that.
[00:26:35.320 --> 00:26:39.400] And I think it's such an important message: to like, yeah, you've got to see what works.
[00:26:39.400 --> 00:26:41.080] You've got to see what people respond to.
[00:26:41.080 --> 00:26:56.280] And I think you're uniquely positioned right now in a time where people are really looking for solutions that help the soul and make us feel, you know, more alive and more connected and happier because it is a tough time out there.
[00:26:56.280 --> 00:27:04.760] And the mental health struggles that we're having and the phone addiction struggles that we're having, like, this stuff is all so real and it's going to keep getting worse.
[00:27:04.760 --> 00:27:12.520] So I think people are really turning to meditation and things like what you're doing, like good for the soul stuff.
[00:27:12.520 --> 00:27:15.480] Like it's unique and it's amazing.
[00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:16.600] I'm excited for you.
[00:27:16.600 --> 00:27:17.640] I'm excited to see you.
[00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:18.120] Thank you.
[00:27:19.080 --> 00:27:19.720] Thank you.
[00:27:19.720 --> 00:27:21.400] I feel really excited about it.
[00:27:21.400 --> 00:27:24.360] I'm like, so feel so impatient with myself.
[00:27:24.360 --> 00:27:38.360] That's like one of my biggest challenges is just like, actually, Ira Glass, I like read this great thing by Ira Glass recently, who's the host and creator of This American Life, which is like one of the most successful storytelling podcasts.
[00:27:38.360 --> 00:27:45.720] But he talks about how like every creative person gets into creative work because they have taste.
[00:27:45.720 --> 00:27:59.000] But essentially, like what people don't talk about is like the years that you go through where you have a gap between like the vision that you have and the taste that you have and what you actually are able to like create and put out there.
[00:27:59.400 --> 00:28:08.120] So I kind of feel like I'm in that gap period with my own business where I'm like so passionate about the why and like everything that you just said.
[00:28:08.120 --> 00:28:25.520] Like, I'm so passionate about how play can help people with, yeah, feeling more connected, feeling more connected, like combating loneliness, how play can help people feel more alive in this time where we're so you know, chronically online, constantly scrolling.
[00:28:25.520 --> 00:28:38.320] Anyway, I feel very passionate about the space, and I have this vision for the work that I want to be doing, but I'm in like that very early stage of like not just not being there yet.
[00:28:38.320 --> 00:28:41.840] And so, that's like immensely challenging at the moment.
[00:28:41.840 --> 00:28:47.920] Yeah, I can see how that's immensely like challenging and frustrating because you want to be there already.
[00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:49.680] It's like you want to be 10 steps ahead.
[00:28:49.680 --> 00:29:06.160] But I guess the beauty of where you are is being where you are right now and being in that infancy and getting to enjoy that exploration phase before you kind of like understand what the main thing is that you're going to then just go guns blazing towards, you know?
[00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:07.120] Yeah, it's true.
[00:29:07.120 --> 00:29:08.000] Yeah, exactly.
[00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:18.960] It's like I have this, I have this note, like this post-it note on my bulletin board, and it says, Be generous, have fun, and enjoy the process.
[00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:21.120] The process is play.
[00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:23.840] I love that.
[00:29:23.840 --> 00:29:25.520] Everyone needs that reminder.
[00:29:25.520 --> 00:29:27.680] We all need that post-it note.
[00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:28.400] I know, right?
[00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:30.880] I have to just keep reminding myself.
[00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:42.080] Yeah, like I think we all get impatient with the vision that we have for our lives or our careers, whatever it is, and the gap between like where we are now and that.
[00:29:42.080 --> 00:29:51.920] But it is like so beautiful to actually just enjoy the process because also, so often, we actually get to a goal that we've worked so hard for.
[00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:58.080] And if you don't enjoy the process, then you often don't actually really enjoy the getting to the goal either.
[00:29:58.080 --> 00:29:58.880] Absolutely.
[00:29:58.880 --> 00:30:04.520] I feel like if you're not enjoying the process, you've kind of lost because the process is the day-to-day.
[00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:12.680] That's the journey, is the day-to-day of getting, you know, getting up and enjoying what you're doing and working towards the things.
[00:30:12.680 --> 00:30:14.920] It's not just about that goal.
[00:30:15.240 --> 00:30:16.520] Yeah, it's so true.
[00:30:16.520 --> 00:30:24.680] Yeah, like that's the meat of it, says the vegetarian.
[00:30:24.680 --> 00:30:25.720] Lol.
[00:30:26.040 --> 00:30:34.760] You were saying, like, you know, you're out there walking around, putting your ideas onto your phone, like talking to your phone, this kind of thing.
[00:30:34.760 --> 00:30:45.880] What are some of the kind of marketing concepts that you're like dreaming about or kind of having the works that you want to put out there, like grassroots, organic marketing initiatives?
[00:30:46.200 --> 00:31:08.520] Yeah, I mean, so far, everything has been pretty word of mouth, like kind of taking my group that I, you know, gathered during the pandemic for that I was dancing with, and that's sort of my, you know, initial group that has come over and been part of the play experiences and play breaks.
[00:31:08.520 --> 00:31:55.200] But I mean, my dream is to, my dream is to have this curriculum, like digital, like basically creating this digital curriculum, these digital playbreaks that people are joining from all over the world, and then have an annual, like our big moment will be like an annual creative camp where you can come and try all kinds of different amazing creative activities where we have a evening dress-up dance party and a karaoke cave, and it's just like this, this super fun place to come and try everything and be fully alive and with other people that are just ready to play and have fun.
[00:31:55.200 --> 00:32:01.040] And so like, yeah, my dream is that that's sort of like our biggest brand moment of the year is that camp.
[00:32:01.040 --> 00:32:11.600] And it's when like everyone comes together and just has like that super fun moment that like fuel, you know, kind of like fuels you and that you dream about all year.
[00:32:11.600 --> 00:32:26.000] And then, you know, throughout the year, we'll have just like our kind of more, our curriculum, our play workbooks and products that you can gather, you know, with your own friends and family and community with.
[00:32:26.320 --> 00:32:32.160] I mean, that's, that's like my, that's my dream is, is, you know, this amazing cool dream.
[00:32:32.160 --> 00:32:37.840] Yeah, this amazing play camp festival fun moment.
[00:32:37.840 --> 00:32:38.320] So.
[00:32:38.320 --> 00:32:42.720] So are we thinking like 2023 or 2024?
[00:32:42.720 --> 00:32:44.640] I'm like, sign me up.
[00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:45.440] I know.
[00:32:45.760 --> 00:32:48.640] Pre-launch those tickets, baby.
[00:32:48.640 --> 00:32:49.760] I know, right?
[00:32:50.080 --> 00:32:53.280] I've been, I've been like ruminating on the date.
[00:32:53.280 --> 00:33:02.160] I think it's most likely the end of 2023 for our play, our first, our first play camp.
[00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:13.120] I haven't fully named it yet, but yes, the play festival camp wild experience, wild weekend will happen at the end of 2023.
[00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:15.680] I'm manifesting it.
[00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:17.280] Hell yeah, manifest it.
[00:33:17.280 --> 00:33:18.240] You got to put it out there.
[00:33:18.240 --> 00:33:22.240] You got to start talking about this thing that's happening at the end of 2023.
[00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:25.200] And then you'll start aligning all of your goals to that.
[00:33:25.520 --> 00:33:26.720] It's very true.
[00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:32.440] I mean, I think it's interesting, like what you were saying before about enjoying the process, like enjoying the process.
[00:33:32.520 --> 00:33:41.000] And also, like, sometimes people talk about manifesting as though it's just like you're just saying it, but it's also manifesting is like what you do every day.
[00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:44.040] It's really actually, I think about it as your habits.
[00:33:44.040 --> 00:33:51.240] Like, what's the daily courageous action that you are taking in that direction of that thing?
[00:33:51.240 --> 00:33:55.000] Yeah, that goal that you're setting, that thing that you're trying to manifest.
[00:33:55.000 --> 00:34:08.120] So, yeah, for me, it's like every day, what is that daily courageous action that I'm taking that is putting me on the path towards my fun festival play camp dreams?
[00:34:08.120 --> 00:34:09.400] 100%.
[00:34:09.400 --> 00:34:10.680] Gosh, I'm excited.
[00:34:10.680 --> 00:34:11.640] I'm going to be there.
[00:34:11.640 --> 00:34:12.200] I'm going to be here.
[00:34:12.600 --> 00:34:15.480] Tell me in advance because I'm going to have to book my flights, but I'm coming.
[00:34:15.480 --> 00:34:16.600] Okay, okay.
[00:34:17.240 --> 00:34:18.280] I will let you know.
[00:34:19.560 --> 00:34:23.320] I'm putting you on the list.
[00:34:23.640 --> 00:34:24.360] Amazing.
[00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:26.040] I'm so excited.
[00:34:26.360 --> 00:34:45.240] When you think about the lessons you've learned throughout your career, you know, building a refinery 15 years and now coming into this new business, is there anything that you kind of wish you knew before you started that you can pass that wisdom on to anyone listening?
[00:34:45.240 --> 00:34:50.440] Any advice or any kind of guidance from a seasoned entrepreneur?
[00:34:50.440 --> 00:35:02.040] I mean, so much, but I think the biggest thing that I wish I knew and that I try to remember every day now is that there's no one right way.
[00:35:02.360 --> 00:35:20.880] I spent so much time, you know, kind of thinking that I was doing things the wrong way, or I was, or, you know, or the way, or like the qualities that I had, or my personality was like not correct for what I wanted to create.
[00:35:21.120 --> 00:35:31.600] And, you know, I just think I lost a lot of time and energy fixating on like what the right, what the right way to do things was.
[00:35:31.600 --> 00:35:41.840] Or, yeah, I just, I, I feel like just knowing that there's no one, there's no one right way, and there's no, like, really just embracing.
[00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:44.800] Sorry, I feel like I'm not articulating this very well.
[00:35:44.800 --> 00:35:46.720] No, I totally get what you mean.
[00:35:46.720 --> 00:35:48.480] I totally get it.
[00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:56.960] I think we all look at other people and we think like that person has it figured out and I need to be doing this blueprint or these steps to get there.
[00:35:56.960 --> 00:36:04.640] But actually, like, we're all just out here every day, kind of just going with the flow and hustling to figure it out.
[00:36:04.640 --> 00:36:05.040] Totally.
[00:36:05.200 --> 00:36:06.080] And that's the right way.
[00:36:06.080 --> 00:36:07.280] It's the right way for you.
[00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:12.960] And it's the right way for like your process of getting there, of getting to your goals.
[00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:14.160] Yes, exactly.
[00:36:14.160 --> 00:36:16.800] Yeah, there's no, there's no one right way.
[00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:25.360] And, you know, basically, if as long as you're taking courageous action every day towards your goals, like that is the right way.
[00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:33.920] Like what is the next right thing for you, for your business, and feeling like secure in that, I think is really powerful.
[00:36:33.920 --> 00:36:38.160] I mean, I have so much other advice I would give.
[00:36:38.160 --> 00:37:03.800] You know, I think it's so important to think about, you know, think about anyone that you hire, that you partner with, like as a partner, and knowing that that is a two-way, that is a two-way street, you know, whether even with investors, I think so often we think like that the investor, you know, we kind of shift the power in an investor relationship off of ourselves.
[00:37:03.800 --> 00:37:14.360] And it, you truly need to like that person needs to be fueling you and connect, you need to be connecting with them like on a lot of different levels.
[00:37:14.360 --> 00:37:19.880] It needs to be like really, truly a partnership for it to work out for everyone involved.
[00:37:19.880 --> 00:37:23.320] And I think, so I think that's really important as well.
[00:37:23.320 --> 00:37:24.760] Amazing advice.
[00:37:24.760 --> 00:37:26.840] Thank you for sharing.
[00:37:26.840 --> 00:37:33.000] Yeah, I feel like, I don't know why, but I feel like I'm not, I don't have good advice today, but that's okay.
[00:37:33.320 --> 00:37:34.520] That's great advice.
[00:37:34.520 --> 00:37:35.160] What do you mean?
[00:37:35.560 --> 00:37:37.240] You've just hit us with two bangers.
[00:37:37.240 --> 00:37:38.040] I love it.
[00:37:38.040 --> 00:37:39.400] Okay, okay, okay, good.
[00:37:39.400 --> 00:37:40.200] All right.
[00:37:40.840 --> 00:37:42.920] Gosh, don't hate on yourself there.
[00:37:42.920 --> 00:37:44.600] You're doing some really good stuff.
[00:37:44.600 --> 00:37:47.160] Oh, I have one other piece of advice.
[00:37:47.160 --> 00:37:47.640] Great.
[00:37:47.640 --> 00:37:48.760] Let's hear it.
[00:37:48.760 --> 00:37:52.040] My other piece of advice is: play is productive.
[00:37:52.040 --> 00:37:55.080] It's also, you know, starting a business is a long game.
[00:37:55.080 --> 00:38:00.680] I went through so many periods of burnout because I wasn't putting fuel back into the tank.
[00:38:00.680 --> 00:38:04.280] I was giving everything to my business and I was losing perspective.
[00:38:04.280 --> 00:38:12.600] And I was also not accessing my creativity, my resilience, my resourcefulness as a result.
[00:38:12.600 --> 00:38:25.640] So I do think that it is so important to prioritize things that bring you joy, that refill you so that you have the longevity and the grit to continue with your business.
[00:38:25.640 --> 00:38:36.280] So prioritize yourself, prioritize play, and know that play and self-care are extremely productive.
[00:38:36.920 --> 00:38:37.720] I love that.
[00:38:37.720 --> 00:38:39.080] That's an important one.
[00:38:39.080 --> 00:38:41.160] That's when we all need more.
[00:38:41.320 --> 00:38:42.040] Yes.
[00:38:42.440 --> 00:38:43.720] We need to hear that more.
[00:38:43.720 --> 00:38:44.440] Yeah, it's true.
[00:38:44.440 --> 00:39:05.680] And also, I mean, this is something I didn't practice until much more recently, but I have really found that self-compassion is so important to building resilience and building like the capacity to show up daily and be courageous, be creative.
[00:39:05.920 --> 00:39:12.000] But for so long, I believed that self-criticism was what made me good.
[00:39:12.320 --> 00:39:23.680] So I just wrote, like, I just, you know, was my harshest, my harshest critic, and just my inner voice and my dialogue with myself was so destructive.
[00:39:23.680 --> 00:39:37.680] And it wasn't until pretty recently, basically when I became a mom, I realized like, if I want to teach my daughter to love herself, I need to work on like my relationship with myself and starting with how I talk to myself.
[00:39:37.680 --> 00:39:45.120] And so since she was born, I started this practice of self-compassion where I write myself like notes in the morning.
[00:39:45.120 --> 00:40:02.640] And I just have found that working on self-compass, like building self-compassion has just given me so much more, more of like a steady base of confidence and of resilience than I had before.
[00:40:03.280 --> 00:40:14.160] So I think a lot of people think self-compassion makes us unaccountable or weak or like we're not gonna go after our goals if we are compassionate to ourselves.
[00:40:14.160 --> 00:40:16.320] But actually the research shows it's the opposite.
[00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:28.960] And my experience has been the opposite: that it's like makes me so much sturdier when I actually show up with compassion for myself, and it allows me to be more compassionate to other people as well.
[00:40:28.960 --> 00:40:31.400] Wow, that's so interesting.
[00:40:31.400 --> 00:40:36.120] I always struggle with these things for myself because, like, I'll get a pen and paper.
[00:40:36.120 --> 00:40:38.040] It's the same with journaling that I struggle with.
[00:40:38.040 --> 00:40:40.280] It's like, what do you actually write?
[00:40:40.280 --> 00:40:42.680] What are you actually writing on that piece of paper?
[00:40:42.680 --> 00:40:44.360] Like, what's an example?
[00:40:44.360 --> 00:40:50.360] So, an example could be like, I call myself sweet pea usually because that's like a childhood nickname.
[00:40:50.360 --> 00:40:52.760] So, I'll say, good morning, sweet Pea.
[00:40:52.760 --> 00:40:55.640] Oof, last night was a doozy.
[00:40:55.640 --> 00:41:03.560] Viva woke up, Viva woke, Viva woke up three times, and this morning you are feeling like crap.
[00:41:03.560 --> 00:41:15.480] You know, have, you know, have a have a coffee, go for a walk, and know that if today is not your best day, you know why.
[00:41:15.800 --> 00:41:23.480] You know, I'll do like stuff like that, or I'll be like, check three things, you know, check three things off your to-do list and call it a great day.
[00:41:23.480 --> 00:41:32.680] So, it's kind of like I try and I try and just first start with like checking in with myself, like, what's up?
[00:41:32.680 --> 00:41:34.040] Like, sometimes they're really positive.
[00:41:34.040 --> 00:41:35.800] It's like, you're so excited today.
[00:41:35.800 --> 00:41:40.600] Like, you know, so it's like checking in, how, how am I doing?
[00:41:40.600 --> 00:41:42.680] Then it's meeting myself with compassion.
[00:41:42.680 --> 00:41:52.200] So, it's basically just like acknowledging however I'm feeling without judgment and then giving myself like a little advice as though it was coming from a loved one.
[00:41:52.200 --> 00:41:55.160] So, and I can decide what I need to hear.
[00:41:55.480 --> 00:42:06.600] And it's, it's really helpful because I also, I also realize how often I might be waiting for someone else to validate me or, you know, commiserate with me.
[00:42:06.600 --> 00:42:09.480] And, and often there's like, who else would do that?
[00:42:09.480 --> 00:42:13.800] You know, who else like knows every single little thing that you go through?
[00:42:13.800 --> 00:42:27.600] So it's also very empowering to just be able to like affirm myself or you know have compassion for myself because I can then like kind of move through it.
[00:42:27.600 --> 00:42:45.360] It's like being like your most cherished cheerleader who's like, you know, truly got your back and truly understands and you're able to just like communicate to yourself and give yourself that high five that you need sometimes to keep going or a big cozy hug.
[00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:47.600] But yeah, writing.
[00:42:47.600 --> 00:42:48.640] I love that.
[00:42:48.640 --> 00:42:48.960] Yeah.
[00:42:48.960 --> 00:42:49.280] Cool.
[00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:53.920] Yeah, it's a very tender, like, it's a very tender exercise.
[00:42:53.920 --> 00:42:59.360] It feels weird at first, but I've gotten used to it and it's really nice.
[00:42:59.360 --> 00:43:01.120] Yeah, I'm gonna give that a try.
[00:43:01.120 --> 00:43:03.440] That sounds like a really beautiful practice.
[00:43:03.440 --> 00:43:04.320] I'm into it.
[00:43:04.320 --> 00:43:05.120] Thank you.
[00:43:05.120 --> 00:43:06.160] Great one.
[00:43:06.160 --> 00:43:06.880] Yeah.
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[00:43:38.160 --> 00:43:40.240] Hey, it's June here.
[00:43:40.240 --> 00:43:45.040] Thanks for listening to this amazing episode of the Female Startup Club podcast.
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